Patriots Playbook 4/26: Pre-Draft Predictions

Tune-in as John Rooke is joined by Evan Lazar from Patriots.com to preview the 2023 NFL Draft from a Patriots perspective with biggest needs, best fits, possible trades, mock drafts and more.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Patriots Playbook, the legend. Welcome into the What
month is this? They need a corner, They need a corner,
you did, I know? Listen, Well, that's why I'm setting
you up here. I'm throwing you a big fat softball.
It's time for you to smash it out of the park.
You're not gonna pick me up to the eighteen wheeler.
You're gonna pick me up with the Camaro. Camaro. All right,
all right on and Eldrid in the Camaro. Watch out, ladies,

(00:29):
ready said go Now, here's your host of Patriots Playbook,
John Rook. We press the button. It's been so long
here Eldridd in a Camaro. Okay, that's that's that has
to happen at some point, Matt. Maybe we can do
a you know, maybe we can arrange for him to
drive his Camaro during the regular season rather than the

(00:51):
eighteen wheeler that he drives in for a you know, right,
and get him to well, but he doesn't have the horn,
he didn't have the thing going right, but he's as
a passenger for well, yeah, I could do that. I
can bring the sound sound effects, right.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Hep for Eldred's sake, he's got a better looking passenger.
You no offense job.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Wow, let's start right like that? Shall we do that?
That's good, Evan Lazar. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much.
Welcome into the Playbook, the April pre Draft edition, off
season monthly edition of Patriots Playbook. And you know it,
Originally we had intended what we were with the thought
process today was to because this is the day before

(01:36):
the draft, and because we're gonna be doing live draft
coverage here on Patriots dot Com Radio tomorrow, which you'll
be a part of it all weekend, really throughout the
entire draft. So if you're out and about, or you're
watching something else on TV, or you're watching the Celtics
choke again or whatever it may be, which was amazing
last night, I can't I know, I know, I know,
I listen. I was watching your tweets. Evan, was more

(01:59):
and more pissed off guys that I saw, you know,
and you were one hundred percent right Because I'm sitting
there with my wife with Miss Robin. We're watching the
game and we're like, they're gonna blow this, They're gonna
blow this, and she's like, turn it off. I can't
watch it turn it off, and I'm like no, because
I know the car wreck's coming. I can't turn it off.
I'm gonna rubber neck.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
You know, I'm in a Celtics show.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
But that was lousy.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
That was lousy, and the head coaches is in my.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Iran. I can't speak. I cannot speak ill of Joe
Missoula because he's a Rhode Islander. He's from Johnston, Rhode Island,
where I spent you know, twenty five years of my
residence here in New England. So I will not speak ill.
But he made a mistake, and he's made several mistakes,
and I am willing to live up to a certain
number of those because of his relative inexperience as a

(02:49):
head coach. But when that inexperience then costs you in
the postseason, yeah, all that's are off.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Plus what you know, when your window is open, wide
open to go on a title run and you put
a coach in charge of a zero head coaching experience
for a team that should win a title, correct, it's
a lot of pressure.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
It is. It is. So I'm gonna I'm gonna give
him one pass, okay, And they need they need to
figure out a way to win it Thursday night, which
of course is when they will have to play Game
six in Atlanta, and of course that'll be going right
up against.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
The draft, so right up against, right up against. They
get lucky if they blow it again, and then half
of New England will be watching the draft instead of and.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
Half of New England probably won't care, which is probably
gonna be for their benefit at any rate. All right,
So we'll get back to the original premise then, because
the thought process was we were going to combine Catch
twenty two in the playbook for this week. But then,
of course I'm listening to ninety eight five this week
to filgrin maz because they always do draft stuff, and
Alex Barth is working for them during the afternoon, so

(03:51):
his day job, as I used his day job. Yes,
it's important. So we're pulling off half of catch twenty two.
Does that make you catch eleven?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Okay? Right, So we're taking at eleven here, uh, And
he's going to join the playbook for the pre draft show,
and then you will be a part of the Patriots
Unfiltered Draft Show tomorrow night during the draft party.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Draft party with me and Deuce and Paul and Fred
and Tamara and Alice. I'm sure we'll be around too,
so it'd be a good time.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, there's there's no room for Rook, so you know,
just go right ahead and always welcome. Yeah. Oh yeah,
it depends on who you talk to. Look, we made
Matt spit out his sput out my coffee. See, Matt's
been in on all these these Uh, he's been in
all these conversations. We don't really need Rook and he's

(04:38):
he's my advocate. He's my Matt. Matt's my advocate, Matt Marine, Matt,
I wouldn't listen if I was going to war with
you in Afghanistan. That's one guy i'd want to sit
next to me in the foxhole. Absolutely, Okay, yes, sir,
that's one guy I'd wanted my foxhoul.

Speaker 2 (04:52):
So yeah, I told you earlier when Marine said that
he survived Afghanistan so he can survive the draft. I'm
just gonna keep telling myself that on Thursday night, right,
I'm gonna be like, listen, relatively speaking, Marine in Afghanistan.
So this is really just not very high on the
things that we need to worry about.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
I understand completely. So you'll understand if there's angst in
Evans's voice after the pick has made it fourteen, No, no,
no better yet, they're gonna trade down. They'll trade down
then you I think you'll start to hear his throat titan.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Trading down is. I'm not totally out on trading down,
but you gotta tell me what the first thirteen picks were,
Okay before I sign off.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
So if you have if you have a guy like
Skeronsky from Northwestern, or you have a guy like Broderick
Jones from from Georgia, or Quintin Johnson from TCU, or
hell my favorite, which is b Jon Robinson, although they
don't need him, but it wouldn't it wouldn't kill me
to see him slip that far because the guy's a

(05:55):
tremendous offensive talent. You may be one of the better
running backs to come out of the Pros or to
come into the Pros. I don't know, probably at least
in Saquon right, Yeah, yeah, without a doubt, because yeah,
he's that multipurpose kind of back. I got to talk
about him a little bit because you guys won't talk
about him at all tomorrow. But he's one of those
guys that is tailor made to a twenty first century offense.

(06:16):
He's good enough and shifty enough and strong enough to
go between the tackles and make guys miss He's got
that certain degree of missibility, which is the term that
I like to use. But he can also Man, can
you imagine that's sound of a gun. Go look at
the tape if you have it yet, and I know
many of you have, But boy, can you see him
on one of those wheel roots out of the backfield? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
I mean he's a top five player in the draft,
no doubt about it. I'm fascinated to see where he
falls in the first round because it's really going to
be a bigger conversation of running back value and where
the position is.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
And that's the nature Hume. You're right, Evans, that's the
nature of the beast over the what maybe the last
six to ten drafts where the value of running back
up high just has not been there because running back
largely take such a physical beating. Their prime is only
five or six.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Years, right, and you look at I think the main
thing is most teams look at, especially a top half
of the first round pick as a five to ten
year investment that you're hoping for your organization is going
to be somebody that you're gonna have as a pillar
of your team for a decade. You know, that's always
the old draft cliche. Oh, you draft this guy is

(07:25):
gonna be your left tackle for a decade. You know,
that doesn't always work out like that, as we know.
But running backs, you're really drafting that guy for the
life of his rookie contract. You're looking at four or
five years, and at that point we'll see if he
still has enough gas in the tank to carry it
into a second contract. But Saquon went second overall to

(07:47):
the Giants. Zeke went fourth overall to Dallas. But Dallas
didn't have a ton of other needs at that you know,
they were a playoff team that got the pick from
somebody else, right, right, so they took Zeke you at
fourth overall. I just I don't know in this particular draft,
I don't know where Bijon goes. Because the teams at

(08:10):
the top of the draft have such major needs at
important positions. Arizona's not in a position to take a
running back. They just need too much talent on their
roster for a positional value standpoint, the one team that
really stands out to me, well, there's two, but the
one that really stands out to me is the Philadelphia
Eagles at number ten because that's a team that has

(08:33):
everything tremendous roster. They don't necessarily need to pick a
corner because they have no playable corners right now, so
they have fantastic roster talent as it is. And with
a running quarterback, you now put Bijon in that backfield
with Jalen Hurts and forget about it. I mean, how
do you defend that package of the Reid option with

(08:54):
Hurts and Bijon being the one that gets the ball.
Miles Sanders was there every down back last year. He's
gone so.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
To play the Eagles twice if that happens.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, so I think that that's the spot. I also
wouldn't roll out Tennessee at eleven if they feel like
they're gonna trade Derrick Henry. They did it last year
with AJ Brown and they ended up drafting Traylon Burks
with the pick. So maybe they do another one for
one swap where they find somebody to take Derrick Henry
and then they just put Bjeon right in and don't

(09:26):
skip a beat. But I really like the Eagles at
ten for Bjon?

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (09:31):
Cherry on top for them?

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Why not? And then that's usually teams that will take
backs like that, especially that high, because they just their
need is specific and they've got enough depth where they
can gamble on something like that.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Absolutely, So all right, so we got the Bejon issue
out of the way. If he does slip, we'll see,
but I don't expect him to, as you don't I
before we get to potential draft picks, and before we
look at, you know, the positions really that need to
be addressed by New England and realizing of course that

(10:03):
if you're listening to this on the podcast after the draft,
the funny part will be we're either really right or
really wrong, okay, because yeah, well but that's okay. Yeah.
So what I want to do is I want to
think philosophically as well here today, because clearly, if someone
is kind of going through the website and they're like, hey,
let's hear what they talked about before the draft, let's
se how right those guys work because they tuck all

(10:24):
the time. Okay, not necessarily, but philosophically, we need to
I think discover a few things about where this team is. Specifically.
There was a story that came out today. Yahoo Sports
put it out. Did you read it.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
I don't know what the headline is, so I can't.
I can't tell you.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
The headline was Bill Belichick must crush this NFL draft
the rest of his career, and the Patriots place in
the AFC East may hinge on it. And the story
is written by Dan Wetzel, who I know a little bit.
I've read his stuff for a long time. He's a
very knowledgeable writer, especially a football writer, and he's writing

(11:02):
for Yahoo. But that was this story he put out today,
and when I read it, my initial thought was I've
been thinking this for like two or three years, and
now somebody's finally doing it. And I'm thinking, you know what,
I can't argue with anything the guy has said, or
any of the thoughts and the general premise of the headline.
It's really hard to argue it his lead. The most

(11:27):
important NFL draft of Bill Belichick's career came in two
thousand and one of the second chance head coach trying
to rebuild, the Patriots managed despite lacking a first round
pick to select a few contributing talents Hed Jr. Redmond,
Greg Randall, and famously uncovered Tom Brady with the one
hundred and ninety ninth pick. If not for that draft
or that Brady pick, we probably aren't talking about Belichick
as an NFL head coach all these years later. He's right,

(11:51):
because we could have seen Cleveland. Redo is what we
could have seen on Thursday. Belichick will oversee his twenty
fourth draft in Fox bro and the stakes are as
high as they were in the beginning. And I'm one
hundred percent behind that they are. And look, I know
the Crafts have long said, first of all, we like Bill.
We love Bill. We love what Bill has done for

(12:12):
the for the area, for the for the program, for
the franchise, for New England, for Boston, for Patriots fans everywhere.
Six Super Bowls are unmatched. Well they're they're matched, but
by one guy. Unmatched. Okay, so thank you. But the
business of the sport comes first. And if you are

(12:35):
to sustain what the Steelers tried to do, well, let's
go back further. The Packers tried to do in the sixties,
what the Steelers did in the seventies, what the forty
nine ers tried to do in the eighties what the
Cowboys started in the nineties. Boy, they had it going
in the early nineties. You're too young for that, right
on the cuss Okay, you're on the cusp of that one. Yeah,

(12:56):
but you know the record books, you see the numbers,
and you understand, well they won, you know, three and five,
so pretty good, pretty good run right there. And then,
of course what the Patriots were able to accomplish in
both the two thousands and the twenty tens with winning
three in those things, how do you sustain beyond what
those teams just did. And the fact is is that

(13:16):
none of those other teams could. The Patriots did it
once and now it's time for build a show. He's
still got enough gas left in the tank to do
it again. If not, it's time to move on. That's
my own personal thought. So I think this is a
hugely important draft for the Patriots. They got to get
it right because of the one significant thing, especially because

(13:39):
of one significant thing that happened this week in the
NFL to our lovely rivals in New York by pulling
in a four time NFL MVP at quarterback in Aaron
Rodgers a forty year old to be quarterback. Yes, but
haven't we gone through that? Okay, we've been through a
forty year old quarterback here, and he could play a

(14:00):
little bit. He's not the same guy. I get it.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, I hear you.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
But you are now out of four teams in the
AFC East, you're fourth on paper, on paper, and I
think here's the scary part. I think you'll agree here.
But if you don't say so, the Patriots are better
this time now than they were this time a year
ago on paper.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
On paper, if you include coaching on paper, then yes.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
So my question to you here the philosophically is, Okay,
how much did Aaron rodgers arrival in New York change
the Patriots outlook on this draft and this season?

Speaker 2 (14:42):
I don't think all that much because I think that
the importance of the draft was hugely important regardless of
who the quarterback was in New York. And I just
look at the Jets as a team that had a
better roster than you. Anyways. I really believe that or
at least had had guys, especially younger guys like Garrett Wilson,

(15:04):
like Sauce Gardner, who are guys that you can look
at as franchise changing, altering players that are gonna be
Jets for the next ten years. Like we were just
talking about, right they plugged this guy in, He's going
to be a franchise star for you for the next
ten years. They already had some of those places in place.
And I think the team last year at the Patriots

(15:25):
be twice was better than you and a lot of
areas other than quarterback and maybe coaching, and that's why
those games were won by the Patriots and not won
by the Jets. So in a lot of ways, I
think it changes just this year number of teams that
are now competitive in the AFC. When you look at
it from a Patriots point of view, I think you

(15:47):
can really make the argument for ten or eleven teams
to make the seventeen playoff, and you are maybe the
twelfth team or the eleventh team in that mix, depending
on how positive you want to be right now about
the outlook of this team. So I think that there's
the Jets are now squarely in the playoff contending mix.
I'm not ready to put them in Super Bowl contending

(16:09):
quite yet. Let's see what Aaron Rodgers looks like. Does
he look like the guy he was last year? Or
does he look like the guy two years ago? Right,
Let's see how blocked in he is, Let's see how
he invested he is, and then let's go from there.
But in general, I come back to with this draft
always that they need guys like they got. You know,

(16:33):
Bill was talking at Devin McCarty's retirement press conference about
that draft. I think it was what the twenty ten draft.
I want to say, Devin mccorty, Rob Gronkowski first round,
second round, knocked it all the way out of the park,
hit it on lansdown Street. Those are the types of

(16:56):
drafts that become building blocks for organization and really spearhead
everything that's going on here. So if I look at
it from a Patriots perspective, and I think corner and
we call it obviously Gronk's tight end, offensive playmaker, you know,
pass catcher. Those two positions again, could be two positions

(17:18):
that they really ought to hit on in this draft,
you know, dB and playmaking, offensive weapon. If they can
do something like that, And I bring that up just
because he's done it before. Has it been ten years? Yeah,
it's been ten years. And that's I've been steadfast on
that in every program that we've had that he has got.

(17:39):
Bill's got to show me that he can still draft,
because it has been a long, long time since they've
had a first round pick that we've all felt really
good about, probably Dante high Tower and Chandler Jones, and
that draft in twenty twelve was the last time that
they truly hit on a first round were years ago. Yeah,

(18:03):
And quite frankly, I don't know how many gms separate
the coach for a second. I don't know how many
gms make it through the last eleven drafts, eleven drafts
that the Patriots have had and keep their jobs because
I think a lot of owners, if it was a

(18:24):
separate person, right, the coach and the GM, a lot
of owners would say, well, Brady dragged us there, right,
you know, Brady's the one that got us into that
contending tier in the NFL. But this roster has fallen apart,
and at some point that that string runs out, even

(18:45):
on Bill, even on somebody as good as Bill.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
That's the nature pro football, though, right, And this happens
to every team. It just hasn't happened New England in
the last twenty four years because that's when Bill came in,
and he had extraordinary success because he had wrong early drafts.
He had strong early identification of veteran players.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
You once upon a time it felt like they hit
on every right, every first round pick, and it felt
like you just knew it's a given that that guy
might not be. You know, Ty Warren wasn't a Patriot
Hall of Famer, He wasn't an all time great player,
but he was a very good player.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
And what they.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Wanted him to do, and that was that was the
bottom line. We knew that they were going to clear
that bar, and then we knew that there was also
another bar that they could clear that was a Patriot
red jacket type of guy, and they just haven't had that.
You know, Cole Strange, We'll see, but it's not. That's
not happening for Cole Strand he's not probably not.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
But I again, I still can't judge last year's draft.
It seems like, Okay, they got some wor couple pieces
out of that. They they dipped into free agency as well,
and or they dipped into undrafted free agency as well
and got guys to stick. They've done that. What nineteenth
straight years now. Yeah, so you know, I think you
can cert expect something like that to happen again this
year because the Patriots are have been very good at

(20:05):
recognizing the undervalued talent, but sometimes they depend too much
on the undervalued talent. Yeah, and this is the difference
between the Patriots to me minus Tom Brady. Let's move
that equation out of it. But this has been the
largest difference between the Patriots successful and the Patriots of
the last three years is they just have they haven't

(20:25):
scored big when they've needed to score, and some of
that unrecognized or even recognized talent because they've dipped to oh,
you know, this guy's fine, Oh this guy's good, or
this guy we can pay or whatever it may be.
They're too worried about that. You got to get guys
that can produce on the field, now.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, I just think they really have to look at it.
And I understand that there's been drafts. You know, the
eighteen Draft always comes to mind when I say stuff
like this, because they drafted win Michelle Dawson with their
first three picks. Georgia, Georgia, Florida, right, Like, those are huge,
big time programs and we're not talking about guys.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
And we're not talking about any of those guys still here.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
No, we're not talking about UT Chattanooga, right, we're talking
about three Georgia played or won the national championship that year.
If I remember correctly, you know, with those two guys,
I believe they've won the last two. Yeah. So I'm
not saying it's it's a fail safe there, it's never
goes wrong when you do this. But I really feel
like in this draft, my one prerequisite going into this

(21:25):
draft is I want a name brand pick in the
first round. We cannot have a cold strange.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
And with fourteen, with fourteen picking up in the upper half, now,
and that's a big car too, Okay, you need your
chances of getting a name brand something, somebody that everyone's
talking about or has talked about, or has been in
every mock or whatever is out there. Your chances are
very strong to do that. But if you take a
step back and first of all, trade down, which we

(21:54):
know Bill leads the world in draft day trades, right,
and don't be surprised if it happens to me, The
most likely thing to happen is going to be a
first night trade. That's the most likely thing to happen
now if they keep fourteen, all right, we want you
said they need a brand name, and I agree with you.

(22:14):
The question is what brand name do they do? They
go and they get So this kind of leads me
into my question for our listeners today. For you, I
want you to answer. I'm gonna answer it as well
because I have my own thoughts. We shared you know,
who you know I like in the first round if
he's there tomorrow, and I want everyone to contribute on

(22:36):
the show. And here's the thing, Matt, We're gonna do
our best today to keep track of the different names, okay,
and we're gonna find out and we're and so next month, yeah,
next month, next month, all right. If we have somebody
who nails it, all right, who nails the first round pick, Okay,
then what we'll do if it's if it's one of
those name brand guys, We're gonna put everybody's name in

(22:58):
a hat, okay, and they're gonna co ho the show
with me. All right, So we're got there's some incentive
here for you.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
And we did this, you know, with our our fantasy
football league winner, who was where the hell was he
luxemberg Luxemburg? I see even Evan remembers that, because that's good.
Evan has a mind like a steel trap over here.
I have a mind like a mouse trap. So that's
the difference between the two of us here. But yeah,
I think that's worth it. We can definitely do that, right,
So we'll have somebody come on as our you know,

(23:26):
quote unquote a Patriots playbook fan expert, and you nailed
the first round pick. So that's what we're gonna do.
So I want you to come in answering this question today.
All right, Eight five five PATS five hundred is the
toll free number, eight five five Pats five hundred, web
radio at Patriots dot com. That's the email. If you
can't pick up the phone, a call, ship off the email,

(23:48):
or just hit me up on Twitter at JR Broadcaster. Okay,
and use those three ways, and this will verify everything
that we got here. All right, But here's the question.
If I'm Bill Belichick, I would draft blank?

Speaker 2 (24:04):
Am I supposed to answer that?

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Now?

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Would you like to sure? If I'm Bill Belichick, I
would draft Jackson Smith and jigbo Okay, I knew he
was going there. I knew he's going there. Now, if
I was going receiver, I would probably go Quentin Johnson.
But I'd only say that because I grew up in
Fort Worth and he's a TCU guy. So see, I'm
letting my bias get in the way. Jean, Yeah, Jeon, Yeah,

(24:27):
Well yeah, if he's there.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
So this whole process, I had been a big Jay
Flowers guy. I love Za Flowers. I've read a lot
of stuff that you've written about Jay Flowers. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
And the Patriots have known about this guy, and they've
seen him, and they followed me.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
They have been They love him. They know more about
Zay Flowers than any other prospect in the draft. I
just know that because he's at the Shrine Bowl. He
was at BC's pro They were at BC's pro day,
which is right down the street, and they had him
in for an extended visit with Bill O'Brien and the
staff a couple of weeks ago. So this is a
guy that they have been in meeting rooms with in Vegas.

(25:04):
They've been in meeting rooms here at Jillette Stadium. In
terms of guys at the top of the draft, just
by this sheer amount of time spent with with the
with the guy that there's no way they know any
more than anybody else about Zay Flowers, right, you know
that's that's their guy. So I've been a huge Zave
Flowers guy. I believe in the talent. I have no

(25:24):
concerns about size. I know a lot of people bring
up that he's small and slight framed. Don't care. Not
in today's NFL. This is you night train lanes, not
coming across the middle and knocking his head off anymore. Right,
Like this is in the seventies. We don't play football
like that anymore. So I'm not worried about any of that.
The reason why I I say now Jackson Smith and

(25:46):
jigbo over Za is two reasons. One, I've had enough
people that I trust their opinion tell me that there's
really one true blue chip receiver in this draft, and
it's jsn Right, There's really only one. It's not one
of those drafts like we've had in the last couple
of years where there's you know, Jamar Chase and Jalen

(26:08):
Waddle and DeVante Smith or you know all they're just
receivers all over the place. In the first round. This
is a thinner receiver draft. It's a thinner receiver draft.
In the first round. Js End's the one surefire guy
that everybody has. The other thing I would say about
it is, oh, yesterday. I don't even know what made
me do it, but I just I went through some

(26:29):
games of Alabama in twenty twenty one when Bill O'Brien
first got there as the offensive coordinator, and between Mechi
and actually Slay Bolden, the amount of those little quick
hitter type throws with just a shifty slot receiver that
are still present in Bill O'Brien's offense. It is exactly

(26:52):
it's exactly the same as the twenty eleven Patriots with
Wes Welker. Right, it hasn't changed. It's still an offense
that that first and second level separation ability and that
ability to just cut on a dime and him get
open at the top of the route. That guy is
still going to catch a hundred passes in this offense.
And the guy that fits that to a t is

(27:13):
Jackson Smith and Jigba. So I think JSN comes into
this offense year one has I think he has eighty
catches as a rookie at the minimum.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Well, now is he available at fourteen?

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Is he available at fourteen? And I think there's a
real conversation here. You have the Texans at twelve, who,
depending on what they do at two, if they do
draft CJ. Stroud, then pairing him with his college teammate
at twelve makes a ton of sense. Thirteen. The Packers

(27:46):
just jumped the Patriots in that Aaron Rodgers trade up
to thirteen. Most people think tackle, I think for the Packers,
or maybe edge rusher, but there are some murmurs out
there that it could have been for Jackson Smith and Jigba.
So for the Patriot it's I think that you're really
looking at either banking on that not being the case,
right and those two teams not going in that direction,

(28:07):
or trading up for let's to say, maybe eleven to
get him, which I think I would do.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
That's a very You did that in your mock here
on the website.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
It's a very It's rare for Belichick. He's only done
it four times, and two of those times is in
the same draft, so he's really only done it in
three different draft rafts. But we're not asking him to
trade up from fourteen to two. We're asking him to
trade up from fourteen to eleven, like it's it's a jump,
it's not if.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
You got fourteen to eleven, do they still take JSN?
Is that what you think they should do?

Speaker 2 (28:40):
It's what I think they should do. Okay, I can't
What do you think they will do? I think they
would trade if they were to trade up, even if
they stay at fourteen, I still think that it's either
a trenches pick alignment on either side of the football,
or maybe they would trade up for a cornerback. But
I don't trust Bill Belichick or think I shouldn't say.
I don't think Bill Belichick would trade up for a receiver.

(29:03):
It's just not in his DNA. Now, they've done it
in the past, like in the second round last year
for Taekwon. That's a totally different animal. Trading up in
the first round for a wide receiver. I don't see
them doing. I think it's ultimately a trench's pick. I
think they look at it from let's build this thing
from the inside out, whether it's a pass rushers.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Now you're talking my language, because if I were Bill Belichick,
I'd draft Broderick Jones. Yeah, I think Broderick Jones will
be there at fourteen. That's my thought, and I think
that we all know that if you're going to try
to make Mac Jones a viable quarterback beyond this year,
and he needs to have every chance he can get
because they screwed up last year. And I think everybody

(29:47):
can see that, and hopefully Bill can too. He needs
his backside protected and you need to have some confidence. Now.
The only trouble with Broderick Jones. You and I were
talking about this before the show. He's not quite yet
the hollished piece of the puzzle that you need on
the line. He's athletically inclined, but he's six ' four,
he's three ten, he's got long arms, he's got everything

(30:09):
that you need in order to play that outside that
tackle spot. He's still a little raw, but he's got pedigree.
He's got thet you know, he's been at Georgia, he's
won championships, he's a leader, he's everything athletically, he's the fit.
It just may take a little more development. And this
is where you hope that you made the right hire

(30:29):
and Adrian clam in the offensive line to coach this
guy up. Yeah, all right, so but all things being equal,
we talked about getting a guy that everybody knows and
a guy that you know you need. I'm answering that
one with Broderick Jones. I am not trading down, even
though I said, I think that might still be the
most likely way they go. I could see them trading
down to pick up another pick, and I don't know,

(30:50):
the top fifty to top one hundred. I could see
them doing that. So if they were able to swap
out first round picks for somebody and get an extra
top hundred guy, I definitely could see them doing that.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
By the way, Yeah right, me too.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
And I think, and I still believe my overall prediction
is just that that's what's gonna happen. Yeah, that they'll
trade down, they'll get and they'll still keep a first
round pick, just lower in the round. They may still
go offensive line with another you know, type of lineman,
but they'll get an extra top one hundred guy. I
think to me, that's the top pick. However, if they
keep fourteen Broderick Jumps.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, it's it's a good pick. And I think based
off of their history very recently with Mac Jones in
twenty twenty one, I do think that they see the
value in at least picking when unfortunately, when they're up
this high, not going back too far right, we've seen
them trade out of the first round or trade back

(31:43):
like last year in the twenties because they're already in
the twenties. So at that point you're already in second
round territory on a team's board. I think at fourteen,
especially with how unique the Patriots.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Board, it's a unanimous first round guy that everybody has.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Right, and I think that especially with how different their
board tends to be from everybody else's.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
We learned that last year their their first.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Round guy being there. It seems very likely like because
maybe some other teams might not view player X as
a first round guy, but the Patriots do, so I
think that that's a really nice pick. I think the
biggest thing that you you look at with Brodrick Jones,
his ability, his athletic ability, and his ability to block
in space, whether it's like getting in front of a

(32:29):
screen or in the run game is tremendous. Okay, it's
absolutely tremendous. It's probably the best trade any offensive lineman
in the draft has if you're just looking at singular abilities, right,
singular things that stand out on film. His standout trait
is he blocks on the move like a tight end,
you know, and that is that's that's great. I think

(32:52):
one thing that you look at with that, and I
think this happens a little bit with Lineman picks is
people it's boring, right, it's a tackle you don't want
to tell it doesn't it's not flashy.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
I'm all for making mech the best guy he can be,
especially now the subject we talked about about twenty minutes ago. Yeah,
with Aaron Rodgers coming into the division and so the
three quarterbacks Josh allen to a type of law Aaron Rodgers.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, yeah, come on, yeah, but he's it won't be
boring around here in the fall. His ability to block
on the move, I don't think will be boring to people.
And I also would say that their ability to then
incorporate that into their offense, and knowing that they have
this athletic specimen at left tackle, they can do a
lot of really fun things to his side of the field, right.

(33:38):
They can flip flop him too, screens, yeah, you know,
stretch runs or outside runs to his side, let him combo,
you know, hit, you know, bump, a guy at the
line of scrimmage and then go up to the second
level and block at the second level. Like those things
are things that now Bill O'Brien can get in the
room and say, we can scheme around and could also.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Be attacked eligible tight end and a lot of the
formations and the potential as well.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah, I mean that's the forty nine ers do that
with Trent Williams, or they move him around and put
him at the point of attack. Sure, so it potentially
now the one concern that I really have with broder Jones,
I guess it's one concern that's twofold one. He only
made nineteen starts at Georgia, so he's still relatively young,
relatively raw. He's an underclassman who declared for the draft.

(34:21):
The big thing about the Patriots, especially at the offensive
line position, is they typically draft experience guys. We're talking
about senior bowlers. We're talking about five years seniors like
Cole Strange captains, guys that have started thirty plus games
in their collegiate career. I did some research on it,
and then I had to go back aways to find
the last lineman that they took early that didn't go

(34:43):
to the Senior Bowl. I think every if I'm not mistaken,
every first round lineman they've ever drafted was a Senior
Bowl guy. Wow, So that that's rare. Now, with that
being said, they don't get an opportunity to draft guys
like Broder Jones because they're not up at fourteen too often.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Let me ask you a different question then, all right,
just because since you brought it up, what lineman are
we talking about? We're in the Senior Bowl that would
be takable at fourteen.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I would say that the one guy that has really
generated a ton of buzz as we get into the
deep process here is Darnel Right from Tennessee, who was
fantastic in the fall season, especially against good competition. I
think there is nobody better against Will Anderson from Alabama
than Darnell Right last year. He was fantastic in that

(35:32):
game against Alabama. Goes to the Senior Bowl, has a
great Senior Bowl week, had a great combine. You know,
this has checked all the boxes throughout the process. But
he's a right tackle, so I think you had do
I I don't necessarily care too much about that, but
I do think that that's a factor that you do
have to think about is the right tackle? Is that

(35:57):
still worth it now? I think nowadays and today NFL,
these pass rushers line up all over the place. They
flip flop guy like von Miller. He rushes off the
right side right. He likes to stand up over the
right tackle and rush off that side more than the backside.
So they got to block the same guys. I think
there's some element to that. But he's a people moving

(36:19):
right tackle, great play strength, great balance, great core strength
and anchor and pass protection. And he's pretty agile and
athletic for his size. So he fits the bill to
a t as a Patriots right tackle. But I think
that you do have to have a conversation of it's
not left tackle, right right, and do we still care
about that correct right?

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Let me ask you one more hypothetic Okay, just because
the rumor might be at least has been the last
twenty forty hours, have seen that a guy likes Skearansky
Northwestern might slip to fourteen. If it does, do you
take him short arms and all, which is what he
allegedly has. I'm picturing a Tyronosaurus rex and purple. Is that,
like you know, Barney the dinosaur running around. You know,

(37:01):
that's Skeronsky from Northwestern a little bit. Do they take
him over Jones if he's available.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
I can't say no. Do they, like, in my mind
predicting Bill. I can't say no because they have not. Historically,
they have not been a team that has favored arm
length as much as other teams. I don't think that
they historically think that it's a big factor and as
big of a factor as everybody else does. Dante Scarnekia

(37:32):
famously has come out and said that arm length is hogwashed, right,
that is, it doesn't matter. So in that respect, I
can't roll it out. Scarnsky is the best tackle or
the best lineman. I should say he's the best lineman
in the draft. And I think there's something to be
said for the fact that wherever he plays as a pro,

(37:52):
he's gonna make the line better. Whether it's a guard
or it's a tackle, your line got better because he's
in your room, which you slice.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
And that may be ultimately what they decide to do,
because we know they need that improvement overrle.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
The problem is is that with Cole Strange here, with
Mike Onwenu here, and obviously Scronsky is not a center.
But with David Andrews here as well, where are you
playing him as a rookie And are you playing him
on the outside as a rookie just to move him
inside long term? And is that really worth it? Knowing

(38:28):
that his long term view is probably a guard. Personally,
and I know a lot of people have some strong
opinions about this, Personally, I would let him fail at
tackle first and then move him in if he can't
hang out and handle it right, because I the film
is so good at tackle at Northwestern, and that's that's
a conference where he's facing legitimate pass rushers. It's not

(38:51):
like he's going up against you guys that are going
to be car salesman and accountants in a couple of weeks. Right,
He's going up against Lucas van Ness and the Ohio
State guys and the Michigan guys. You know, I watched
his film from twenty one against Hutchinson, held up fine
against Hutchinson, who's longer, and you know has all that

(39:13):
that was the first round, top five caliber player we're
supposed to did what he's supposed to do. So how
much am I gonna stress about it, not a ton.
The only reason why I don't want them to take
Scaronski is because I know everybody else is gonna lose
their mind. So they took another guard like I don't.
I don't want to deal with the backlash right because
it's it's short sighted and and whatnot. It's gonna annoy me.

(39:34):
But in terms of uh in general, am I afraid
of taking Scaransky?

Speaker 1 (39:38):
No?

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Man, do you want to make a prediction if you
were Bill Belichick, you would draft?

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Nope?

Speaker 1 (39:42):
You know he's shaking his head. Now, Okay, I just
thought i'd offer you the opportunity. Just appreciate it. But
I rather just keep my mouth closed and not proven
them stupid. That's okay, Well, we're all proven ourselves stupid here.
That's the ultimate, uh, the ultimate challenge, just to find
out who's less stupider than others. All right, eight five
five patch, five hundred. Let's get to the phones. Let's

(40:02):
find out what you would do, and we're gonna lead
it off with our buddy Patty and agawan. Patty.

Speaker 5 (40:08):
Hello, good afternoon, gentlemen. What's going on?

Speaker 1 (40:12):
We're good, We're good, We're good. So if you were
Bill Belichick, you would draft.

Speaker 5 (40:20):
Flowers number fourteen. I don't care. I'm not I'm not
dropping down to take them. I'll tell you what, man,
I'm I'm a little bit worried that the Packers moved
up to thirteen because I think they're going to be
looking to get a pass catcher themselves. And here's kind
of where I'm coming from. John. We heard when when
the media got the opportunity to speak to all the

(40:40):
coaches minus Belichick the first phase of the OTAs, what
did Gerrod Mayo say? He said, we feel like our
defense has been good the last two years. And to me,
I mean, if if I'm smart, if I'm listening to
my other coaches, we all know. We all saw it
at fans as media that the offense suck last year.

(41:01):
And I mean part of that was coaching, but a
lot of that too was getting schematics and guys that
can't separate, and we need that guy. I think that
was the one fisting piece this offense because we do
have decent skill players, we just don't have that guy
that can separate on all three levels. I know Evan
is on board with where I'm coming from, too.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
He'd just do it with a different guy I love. Yeah,
I've tried not to be too heavy.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
I've already pounded the table enough for him.

Speaker 5 (41:31):
And I mean, at least from my perspective, if I
was Bill Belichick, that's what I would do. I don't
think that's what.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
He's gonna do.

Speaker 5 (41:41):
What I think he's gonna do is just do something
completely outside the box. But I think if he listens
to the guy like his owner, his offensive coaches, and
they say, hey, you know, we need to get somebody
in here, Well, look at look at the teams like Buffalo,
seems like Cincinnati, seems like Miami that went out and
got the guy, whether it was through the draft or

(42:02):
through trade or through free agency or whatever. Now we
if we want to be a good, biable offense to
compete with these teams in the AFC, well not just
the AFC, in our division, we need to get that guy.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
It's a fair point.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, Listen, there's no wrong answer here.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
I mean we're on the same page when it comes
to a receiver like that, That, to me is is
really the missing ingredient. I think with line play, I'm
I'm with you, John, that there's line play is important
and certainly with a quarterback like Mac Jones who's not
a mobile guy, keeping him protected is really important. I
just have more of the school thought that I feel like,

(42:42):
especially with their history of doing a really good job
of evaluating and scouting lineman a little bit later in
the draft, that I'm confident that Bill and the Bills,
I should say plural, now, the Bills and Adrian Clem,
and I would say, Dante, you can go in there
and find them a third round tackle that can play

(43:02):
the position and can hold its down. And I think
just as a whole, you look at Bill O'Brien being
back in Adrian Clem now being an offensive line coach
here schematically and in terms of being a five man
unit in Unison, it's gonna be a lot cleaner of
an operation up front, and I think that that's gonna

(43:23):
make a lot of dividends as well. I don't necessarily
know if talent was the issue on the line last year.
I think coaching not only from a mental standpoint, but
also coaching technique, correcting flaws on film, all that kind
of stuff. I think that stuff was also a big

(43:45):
detriment to that line as well. So I think they
are still going to add some tackles at some point,
There's no doubt about that. And I would still take
I'd still take one in the top one hundred if
it's not in the first round with one of their
second or third round picks. But I look at receivers.
Is the most explosive receiver in the draft. He's somebody
that There was a play that they were just showing

(44:06):
on NFL Network where they actually ran a trick play
and he was supposed to throw it, but the receiver
that he's supposed to throw it to on the double
pass was covered, so he just ran for the touchdown.
He just tucked the ball and he just ran for
it himself. You know, he turned the corner and ran
it thirty five yards for a touchdown. It just on

(44:27):
a really what was a broken play. And those are
the types of plays that they just don't have anybody
that can do that. They don't have anybody that can
house the football from anywhere on the field. He can
take it to the house the second he steps on
the football field, and they just don't have that element
to their offense, and he would bring it. So I'm
with you, Patty. I've been saying Zay for four months

(44:50):
and if he ends up being the pick, then I'd
be ecstatic.

Speaker 5 (44:54):
And like you said too, Evan, I mean there's a
lot of smoke there, and like just the later maybe
not at eight round guy, but like a day two guy,
guy that I've been harping on a lot too, Lake Freeland.
I mean, the guy gave up one sack and in
the last three years and I'm looking, I'm looking at
it right now, that's I mean, that's thirty over thirty

(45:16):
seven games, he gave up one sack, you know, and
over eight hundred, well it looks like over a thousand,
you know, pass blocking snaps.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
You know, you coach that guy.

Speaker 5 (45:27):
Up, you get him in the program, you get him
to get him to uff his plate strength. And yeah,
I mean, I know you're only going to carry three
three tackles into each game, but maybe you make like
one of one of the swing guys in active a
couple of games and get him in if you draft them,
to get him a little bit of experience this year,
and it becomes your starting right tackle next year.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah, you mentioned earlier, John, we were talking about senior
Bowl guys. Bike Freeland was a senior Bowl guy wasn't
really great down there, to be honest with you. In
the film that I saw at Mobile Mobile that BYU
offense like pass protecting on an island in like true
pass sets. They're not a ton of them on the
film for him. But I would say that the comp

(46:11):
is Nate Solder. He's a skyscraper. He's six foot eight,
three hundred and five pounds, three hundred and ten pounds,
and he is a converted tight end. So he's literally
Nate Solder. The thing that's wrong, you know, the flaw
or the red flag on his on his film is
just like Nate Solder. He might actually be too tall

(46:32):
to play tackle because he can't sink in leverage blocks, right.
He can't get underneath people because he's so tall. So
it's the Senior Bowl a big problem with him. In
the pass rushing drills that they were doing down there.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Maybe he could just you know, like the quarterback could
just like hide behind him, you know, that would keep
him pro rushing.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Right, guys are gonna be able to can't see him,
how can you tackle him? I can already tell you
right now that we're gonna get out there at training
camp and Blake freelin in one on one is gonna
go gainst Josh and joshu j is gonna smoke him
off the ball right because o Ja has got that
explosiveness and that bend right. He can get underneath guys
and bend underneath and turn the corner and really just

(47:11):
can't get down there. He's on the tenth floor and
these pass rushers like an ouch can get down there
right onto the first floor, and he just can't get
underneath it. But he's one of those guys that you're
not gonna go through him. He's got a firm stout anchor.
He's a better run blocker than he is a pass blocker.
He can move people off the line of scrimmage, and

(47:32):
he's got tackle feet. He's got the athleticism in the
range to play pass protection to tackle. He's just gonna
have to work around his height.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Eight five five pats five hundred Sean and Vancouver. Hey Sean,
you're in the playbook.

Speaker 6 (47:45):
Hey guys. Before I get to answer your question, I
just wanted to bring up one other thing of you know. Recently,
Bill O'Brien said we got a clean slate, which is,
you know, a good concept but I'm also a believer
that you need to learn from history. I mean, those
who don't learn from history are damned to repeat it.

(48:06):
So I think you got to, you know, recognize your
mistakes and make sure you don't do them again. Now,
one that we've talked to for death is basically having
the people in position to coach that didn't have the experience,
and that was a mistake.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
We know that.

Speaker 6 (48:27):
But another one that doesn't get as much play is
changing an offense philosophy, specifically blocking, you know, for the
offensive line, to something that you don't have experience in doing,
and you don't have the people to do it, and
you don't have the coaches to coach it. So that
was that was a huge mistake that caused other issues

(48:50):
and made the draft last year a bit strange because
I'll point it out this way. You know you're going
to a zone blocking scheme. Now you think, oh, we
don't have the offensive lineman. Even though the offensive line
was great in twenty twenty one, we don't have the
right type of players. So let's not re sign Carris
and let's trade Jack Mason. Now you have no guards

(49:11):
and you've created your biggest need and you're drafting strange
in the first round because out of desperation you trade
down and they, oh, we better get this guy or something.
I don't know what it is, but it was disappointing
and I don't want to see that again. So I
want to make sure that this team, you know, it,
does their job, because if it is, that philosophy is
do your job. And you pointed out earlier a player

(49:32):
alike in Warren's he's a perfect example of doing your
job because you wouldn't ask him or he wouldn't go
off brand and just fly downfield to try and sack
the quarterback. He's at the line, he's holding it up,
he's allowing other players to make plays, and that was
his job and he did it great. And you know,
when you ask coaches to or when they're put in

(49:55):
position to do things they don't know how to do,
that's not allowing them to do their job. So that
that was problematic. Now your question.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
If I'm Bill Belichick, I would draft yeah who, Yeah, this.

Speaker 6 (50:07):
Is your question, right, So I like your pick JS
and and uh, you know the and the tackle you
know those I'd be happy with that I don't think
will be there and I'm thinkings Alves will be there.
I actually see the Patriots trading down, stay with Jacksonville
and you know, going down to the Jags of twenty

(50:28):
four and then getting their second round at was at
fifty six, right, taking those those picks for fourteen and
still getting Zay Flowers. That's I guess it's a bit
of a hope and rainbow, but that's that's what I'd
hope to see, So save Flowers. I agree with Patty.
That's my pick.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Okay, So which one then are you gonna you? If
you're Bill Belichick, do you trade down or are you
taking Zay Flowers?

Speaker 4 (50:54):
Both?

Speaker 1 (50:55):
Oh? So a? So when fourteen Zay will make it
to twenty four? Right? So with fourteen, your inclination is
to trade down? Correct?

Speaker 6 (51:04):
Yeah, okay unless something crazy happens and one of the
major guys falls like Gonzalez. But I don't think that's happening,
all right, or even.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
All right, So I'm putting you down, then, Sean is
if I were Bill Belichick, I'd trade down. It's a
good bet, okay, Which is there's nothing wrong with that, Okay,
there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Yeah, I actually believe,
I actually believe too that that will happen. I don't
think they're gonna, you know, I don't know where they'll
trade down, which is why, you know, if they could

(51:33):
trade down and get Zay Flowers, I think everybody would
probably be pretty happy with that. I'm not sure that's
the case, so I just stayed with a pick. If
they're at fourteen and they selected fourteen, I'm going with
the pick. My pick was Broderi Jones, So there you go.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
I like that.

Speaker 6 (51:46):
I'm happy with that.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Yeah, I would be if they're going to trade, try
to try to really thread the needle here and trade
down and take Zaye and get both things accomplished. I
don't think you can go lower than twenty, Okay, I
think that there's two teams. Nineteen is Tampa, right, so you.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Gotta find will and trade partners in that range.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
And twenty is Seattle, so who's desperate to get up.
Let's say, for argument's sake, that there's still a quarterback
that team's value that's on the board, like a Will
Levis or maybe a hen and Hooker.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
Maybe that because he Levis is going number one.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Maybe maybe that is a Maybe that's that's a way
that that you can entice teams to trade to make
that trade, or maybe a team uses you, which has
happened in the past as as a lily pad. Right
there there, they say they go Tampa goes from nineteen

(52:53):
to fourteen tomorrow afternoon, and then during the draft, once
that quarterback starts, they go from fourteen to nine, right
or something like that, and that's when they take the quarterback.

Speaker 6 (53:04):
So in my small dream scenario, I also see the
Patriots moving up in the second round and getting Dwan
Jones right tackle.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think the trade down and
then the move up in the second round is a
good strategy. I just would be really wary of trading
too far down that now you've lost all of the
blue chip talent. Right now you're picking somebody that's really
in that second or third tier.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
That's been made a very good point earlier Sean that
once you start getting into the twenties, you're looking at
guys that are in the second round on a lot
of teams boards, right, So if you want the blue chipper,
you really need to be going in the upper half
of the first round.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
Yeah, yeah, I just think there's too many teams between
fourteen and twenty four that would love to have Zay
Flowers on their team, or would be willing to trade
up to get say Flowers that come ahead of you.
You know, I look at teams like Buffalo and Kansas
City picking towards the back end of the round. I
could easily see the Chiefs who love to trade up.

(54:04):
They traded up from Mahomes. They traded up last year
from McDuffie to the Patriots pick at twenty one, the
Chiefs trading up from thirty one to twenty three. The
steal z A Flowers one pick ahead of you is
that's my That's a nightmare for me personally, right like that,
those are the things that you risk. I think if
you go too far down.

Speaker 6 (54:24):
Well, the Seahawks would they trade up twenty and say
of their second round fifty two to the Patriots fourteen?

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Yeah, I don't know if you're getting the second round pick.

Speaker 6 (54:35):
Yeah, you might have to give something else. They might
have give up a third Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
I don't know if you're getting the second round pick
unless you're really trading, like your scenario to go from
fourteen to twenty four, I could see that nitting a
second round pick, because it's a ten picking dropworks. But
if you're going four or five picks down now we're
talking about nineteen or twenty, I don't know if you're
gonna get a second round or out of that. That
might be a third or third and a fourth or

(54:59):
just a third.

Speaker 6 (55:01):
Right, yeah and the third. Yeah, I guess they could
still do that, I mean and get like eighty three.
That would make sense.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Yeah. Last year there was a trade between I think
it was the Saints when they picked a Lava. They
went from sixteen to eleven. I believe is the mat
is the trade if I remember correctly, and they got
a third in the fourth. The team that they traded
with got a third in the fourth, So that was
five spots in the first round. That's you a third

(55:30):
and the fourth. So I think trading down from fourteen
to twenty, I think that's a framework that you can
kind of count on.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
Eight five, five, pats, five hundred. Moving along. Raj in Wakefield, Hey, Raj, Hey, Hi, guys,
good good good, all right. So if I'm Bill Belichick,
I would draft.

Speaker 7 (55:49):
Whom Yeah, nice ball by even yes, I just want
to I know that even hits man, I know what
I'm going to say, but in this draft, I think
there are only two players who most of the NFL
teams say that they have the red jacket or the

(56:12):
gold jacket standard of talent, and those are Jalen Carter
and B John Robinson. Well, I think if they stay
at number fourteen, I think then the check is going
to take B John Robinson. Ideally they ideally Philadelphia. I
hope Philadelphia or Atlanta will take them, and Patriots will

(56:32):
trade back, and they may trade they may take a
edge rusher and in the second round they will up
and take the running back on Donell Washington. That's what
ideally it might happen. But if if it's fourteen, if
B John is staring at.

Speaker 5 (56:47):
Them, they're taking they will take him.

Speaker 7 (56:50):
Because they will say, we don't have blue chip players,
Let's take him and we'll figure it out.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
How.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Yeah, he'd be a good thing to have to figure out.

Speaker 7 (56:58):
All we all say that we do. We all say
that they are never taking the best talented place. When
the best talented player faulty, how to take it right.
It does not matter how which position is. They will
figure it out how to use it. That's not enough.
The betist for twenty years.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Okay, okay, thoughts.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
When I'm driving home, Matt, make sure I don't go
over the Tobin bridge.

Speaker 7 (57:23):
Hypopectically, if you think through it, you say that this
wide receiver class is not even good to go in
first on last year's draft? Yeah, yes, Why do you
think we have to take up? Why do you think
we need to eat and take the vibray.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
I don't think that this draft has the plethora of
talent at receiver that some of the other drafts have.
But I personally feel, especially with jasm but also is
say Flowers that both those guys go in the first
round of most drafts, right that That's that's sort of
my outlook on it. So I think we're getting a
little bit too technically.

Speaker 7 (57:59):
I agree, but this running back usually used to go
in top five pigs right in every in maybe three
years back.

Speaker 5 (58:08):
Yeah, college, then what's wrong.

Speaker 7 (58:13):
In taking him at fifteen fourteen?

Speaker 2 (58:16):
In terms of talent in this draft there there's nothing
necessarily wrong with it. There's a whole rabbit hole of
positional value that we can go down a little bit
that it is important to talk about. I really feel
strongly that the running back position in today's NFL is
as devalued as any position in football.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
It's a position the Patriots itself.

Speaker 7 (58:42):
The Patriots have did that system ten years back and
now part up approach.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
I just think that, on top of the fact that
running back is a is a position that you really
second guest nowadays, whether or not it truly moves the
needle for you, it truly makes you a much better
football team. They have a really good running back already
like here, so I.

Speaker 7 (59:07):
Know they have it. But if you think from the
philosophy of football things, they're like to have a good defense,
good offense with a good defense, good special teams, mistake
three quarterback, ball control game. That's what they believe in.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Right mm hm does that?

Speaker 7 (59:26):
Does that quarterback who is mistake free, who does not
throw interceptions, do dumb mistake? They have a good defense,
they are having they will be hopefully having a good
special teams after two years of disaster. And now it's
a ball control game. If you have two running backs,
take the series by series control the ball control the game.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
Does that.

Speaker 7 (59:49):
The game is the fourth quarter.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
It does not be does that win or anything?

Speaker 7 (59:57):
But they can win games. They were they are winning games.
They were winning like this following this pass.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
I don't know if that wins games like it used
to ten years ago. I just don't know if it does.

Speaker 7 (01:00:07):
I feel like I know, but but but that's what
he believes in and he built his entire.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
You're loving this because this is your guy. So you're
just you're letting, you're letting.

Speaker 7 (01:00:20):
Through his philosophy. Still, he's the headport.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
We cannot if that let me pretty this way because
I I I I try to be as polite as
I possibly can to to to the head coach of
the team, not to you. I I'm always.

Speaker 7 (01:00:36):
I hope I should have brought this yesterday on, but
I did not want chance to join that college today.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Or no, that's okay, Yeah, no, it's okay. I I
say this with all due respect to Bill's resume and
his success. If he drafts John Robinson at fourteen, I'm
going to start thinking the game has passed him by
that that that's a twenty years ago philosophy, that we
are going to win the game with ball control and

(01:01:05):
time of possession and no turnovers and like that.

Speaker 7 (01:01:09):
I und I understand your appointment, but don't you think
the gest that the Sepens will go up with Bijon.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
I just don't know how that. I don't know how
drafting Bijon puts you any any closer to to to
competing with the team like Buffalo. You're gonna go into
Buffalo and you're gonna try to run the ball forty
times and win the game seventeen fourteen, and you're going
to bank on your defense to be able to hold
Josh Allen to fourteen points. Like, even if you only

(01:01:42):
give last year when they went into Buffalo, Josh Allen,
he didn't have very many possessions because the kickoff returns right,
he still went right down the field on you when
he had the opportunity to. So even if you only
give him six drives, eight drives, he's still gonna.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Score on four of them. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Yeah, I I an agreement that this team is currently
constructed cannot get into a shootout with Buffalo. They're not
going to win forty one to thirty eight against the Bills.
They have to be they have to build up their offense,
though to the point where they can win a game
into the high twenties, low thirties. They can't. They have

(01:02:21):
not won a game in the mac Jones era, scoring
more than twenty five four points they have to think about.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
By the way, there's nuts.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Oh, for any game where the opponent scores more than
twenty four points.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
They've lost.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
They've lost at some point in time. You got to
be able to win a game thirty to twenty seven.
You just have to be able to do it. And
I just don't know if the running back gets you
over that hump. It's just tough, Raj. I love you
like a brother. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
I appreciate the call.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
That was a good back and forth.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Absolutely, it was great. And I thought hecause there's definitely
a sound argument. It was not cousin, Raj, however, So there's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Definitely there's definitely a sound argument for So I'm not
coming at it and saying it's it's totally ridiculous, right,
Like there is legitimate.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Yeah, and there is an argument to make for Bejon if.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
I what I look at it as is, look, they're
gonna have better coaching than this, And I get that,
but look at Christian McCaffrey, look at Saquon bar Like,
look at those players early on. Look at Christian McCaffrey
and Carolina Christian McCaffrey was the number one pick and
everybody's fantasy draft for five to whatever however long he

(01:03:35):
was in Carolina, right, five six years, whatever it was.
They were a terrible team. He didn't move the needle.
He was the most productive player in the league from
a statistical perspective. That's why he's going number one in
fantasy football drafts. And they they stunk.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Yeah, hard to argue, right, hard to argue eight five
five pats five hundred. That's the toll. Free to all
of a number at JR Broadcaster on Twitter if you
got some thoughts, or you can send me the old
fashioned email web radio at Patriots dot Com. Jody in
Georgia up next, Hey Jody, Hey, how you doing great?

(01:04:13):
So if I'm Bill Belichick, I would draft.

Speaker 8 (01:04:16):
Whom well I really want would probably not be there,
Christian Gondalas. But it's got to be a cornerback. I mean,
we got Aaron Rodgers, Josh Allen and Tua with all
these weapons, we need somebody to lock them down. So
I think we need to get a high end cornerback
to kind of be able to trail some of these.

Speaker 4 (01:04:35):
Guys longer linked here.

Speaker 8 (01:04:37):
Maybe like Banks or Joey Porter, something along those lines.

Speaker 1 (01:04:41):
Would you check which one would you take?

Speaker 8 (01:04:45):
Personally? I would probably do Banks, but I don't know
if the consensus is Joey Porter's probably you know, a
little bit higher on people's boards, but Banks is linked
and you know, athletic ability. I think it's got a
lot outside.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
What do you think about Banks?

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Love Banks, Yeah, he's he's he's a great player. I
think that you have to probably at this point take
him at fourteen. I don't know if you can trade
down for him anymore. I thought maybe if you'd asked
me a month ago, I would have probably thrown out
of trade down scenario and still get Banks, like at
twenty or twenty one or something like that. I don't
know if you can do that anymore. He's really consensus

(01:05:20):
corner three or four in this draft at this point.
I think some teams are going to have him ahead
of Joey Porter junior. He's the most athletic corner in
the draft. He's ultra physical at the line of scrimmage
and pressman. He can mirror receivers down the field. He
doesn't quite have the ball production, you know, the interceptions,
pass breakups things like that that other guys have. But
you watch him stay glued to a receiver. You look

(01:05:41):
at the athletic profile, the size, the physicality. He's a baller,
you know, he's a really really good football player. I
just look at him and I see a little bit
of Marlin Humphrey on Baltimore like kind of that type
of player. I love Banks. I mean, I think it's
a slam dunk pick. And they're such a great argument
there too about how many more times are we going

(01:06:03):
to watch the Patriots get destroyed by Stefan Diggs when
they play Buffalo. Right, they just without that Gilmour, without
that revis without that tie law, the defense isn't the same.
It's a good defense, but it's not an elite defense
without that number one corner the way that they play defense.

Speaker 8 (01:06:20):
So and they've already done the J. C. Jackson experiment
where they try to take somebody who they they thought
could be number one but wasn't quite that guy, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
So, yeah, and I think they have a couple of
those guys now with the Joneses. Right, you know that
those three guys two through four, that's a great depth
chart one through three, you're still thinking, all right, they
could probably use the alpha right in that room. So
I love banks. I like taking a corner too. That's
I think this is probably more an indictment on where

(01:06:50):
they are right now. John, that we can say tackle,
we can say receiver, we can say corner, and be
right and say yeah, sure, go for it. They all
make sense and that that that's kind of where the
roster is at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Yeah, in all honesty, the guy that I was thinking
if trade down was gonna happen, which I said earlier,
I still think it might happen. I would think they
would trade down, and depending on where they traded, somewhere
in that twenty probably the twenty four area. Joey Porter's
the guy I thought they would probably try to snag.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Yeah, he's somebody that's really impressive at the combine when
we got to talk to all the players at the
podiums in Indy. He's just a really polished, calm, cool, collected,
confident kid, like you can just tell that he just
he knows he's going to be playing on Sundays for
a long time. It's not too big for him. He's

(01:07:38):
not worried about where he's going. He's not worried about
his dad. You know, I think that was a big
question a lot of people were asking him, especially as
it relates to the Patriots. We know that Joey Porter
Senior does not really like Bill Belichick in the New
England Patriots, right, So how much is that going to
be a factor? Would they take him? With that history?

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
I can't imagine has anything to do with it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
I don't think it does, because, you know, with a
Santa Samuel Jr. I think maybe he'd had a little
bit of something to do with it. But Joey Porter
Senior never played for the Patriots and doesn't have any
real bad blood with Bill. It's just a rivalry, right,
It's all it was. So I think that he's a
really interesting player for them. But the one thing I
would just say with him is I don't think that

(01:08:21):
he's matchup proof. He's one of these longer corners. He
takes a little bit of time to get up to
top speed. Like, I don't think you're gonna you're gonna
have him shadow Tyreek Hill, right, Like, he's not gonna
run with a guy like Tyrak Hill. Now you already
have Jonathan Jones and Marcus Jones to run with Tyreek Hill.
So maybe you don't need that type of corner. But
I think more so than maybe like a Gonzales or

(01:08:43):
a Banks or a Witherspoon, Joey Porter Junior is a
true big matchup outside corner, Like you're gonna have to
pick your spots a little bit more with him, I
think than with some of these other guys. So that's
something to consider with him, is is there enough of
those big receipt is that you're going to go up
against it's worth it to Okay, you play the Bengals

(01:09:04):
and he's got T Higgins, great matchup for him, But
when you play Miami, where who is he guarding? He's
not guarding Wattle and Hill. I know that, So that
that's gonna be one thing that I that they why
I've kind of come to the conclusion that they might
have Banks ahead of him on the board.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
Okay, Jody, what else you got?

Speaker 8 (01:09:26):
The only other thing I was I was kind of
curious and somebody kind of mentioned it a little bit earlier.
I was really concerned with the pick swap with the
Jets and the Packers, just because you know, obviously I
just thought, I want a cornerback, but you know, receivers
always a big hope. I just don't have too many
high hopes for that. Yeah, but with Green Bay's up
in the front, I know they got two young guys

(01:09:47):
and Dobbs and Christians, but I didn't know if if
that kind of like snubs any chances of us possibly
getting one of those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Yeah, we we. We kind of touched on briefly early
when we talked about the whole Aaron Rodgers, you know,
to the Jets deal and how it could affect the
Patriots and their draft, and I would agree with you,
it could potentially, Uh, it could potentially alter some of
the thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Yeah, yeah, I think Green Bay. Unfortunately, Green Bay's needs
are pretty similar to your needs. I think the Jets
though too. The Jets have been written all tackle written
all over their forehead, like they've been all over the
tackles in this draft, and they're gonna I think they're
gonna go tackle in the first round. So they were
already a team ahead of you that was probably gonna
take one of those tackles that maybe that you wanted.

(01:10:31):
So I don't think it necessarily changes much of that position.
I think the positions it changes is potentially receiver. But
the Packers, I don't think they've ever taken a first
round receiver in like the last like thirty years or
something crazy like that. Really, Christian Watson was an early
second round pick. Yeah, so that is a little one,
little caveat to that. But that was a big thing
for Aaron Rodgers. I know when they you know, some

(01:10:53):
of this stuff came out about what his big issue
what the Packers was in their front office was that
they didn't really add the offense. It's a talent at
the top of the draft that he wanted. So are
they now going to go against that and take the
year that they traded Aaron Rodgers the year they finally
take a receiver in the in the first round. That's
a pretty big slap in the face to a franchise icon.

(01:11:14):
So I don't know if they'll do that. But the
tackle and edge, I think are two other positions that
the Packers could go that maybe the Patriots have entertained
as well. So yeah, it's a factor. It certainly changes
the deck, and you got to look at it that way.

Speaker 8 (01:11:30):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
I appreciate you guys, all Right, no problem, Jody, Thank
you appreciate that. I did not know this. I just
saw on Twitter. I don't know. Do you know who
Chuck Carlton wrote Dallas Morning News.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Name sounds familiar.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
Yeah, He's been a longtime football writer, covered a lot
of college football, which those guys right now are experts,
because yeah, because but you know, he'd been writing with
Dallas Morning number of news. He just passed away, and
I'm like, wow, that's a stunner. Yeah, because I've known
of Chuck Carlton, followed him for a number of years.
You why he started off in that part of the country,
And I'm just like, wow, that's just that's a shocker.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Yeah, it's too bad.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Yeah, absolutely, eight five five pats five hundred the tot
free number if you want to jump in again. The
question today is if I'm Bill Belichick, I would draft
blank fill in the blank. That's what we got. We
got a pretty good consensus going well right now. Right now,
we don't have an edge. Nobody has an edge. We've
had Jackson and Jigba, We've had uh Roderick Jones, We've

(01:12:29):
had Zave Flowers, We've had trade down, you know for
a Flowers Uh, and we've had uh Robinson, Uh, and
we've had Banks. Okay, those are the guys that we've had.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
He's got a slight lead if we want to.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
I don't hear what. He's got a slight lead only
because Flowers was selected by Patty and then Sean in
Vancouver said trade down to select Flowers.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
So he's hell give him one and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
He's got one and a half. Basically, he's got one
and a half. Aiden in California writes this in web
radio at Patriots dot com. John Hopaul is, well, glad
to hear you are considering or listening to takes of
about firing Bill, because when I emailed in January you
said it was an extreme take. My take is still yes,
I want to fire him immediately. We haven't had any

(01:13:16):
impact players since twenty twelve, which you pointed out earlier.
I for one am tired. I don't think you're advocating
firing Bill though now I for one am tired of
seeing the parade of players pass us by, and the
whole Max situation was just botched horribly. I know it's
probably not apples to apples. I don't follow the Bruins,
but look, they fired Cassidy and hired Montgomery last I checked,

(01:13:38):
they're still pretty good as in who I think the
guy who can't draft anymore will take. Speaking of Beligic,
he selects Miles Murphy, so.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
He's really just saying that Bill is kind of just
middle finger it to everybody on Thursday Night. Miles Murphy
and edge rushers in general. I'm not the biggest Miles
Murphy guy out of this group, but I am not
sleeping on edge rusher being the first round pick by
any means. It's a really strong class. And if you're

(01:14:08):
just going off of talent, I think that there's a
very good chance that one of those pass rushers is
the best guy available on the board at fourteen for them.
And when you look at their roster depth there at
that spot right now, behind Judan and Nucha, what do
you got? Pretty much nothing unless you want to really
count on Ronnie Perkins and Forriny Jennings finally emerging from

(01:14:28):
the ABYSS, I'm not, and then Nucha's in a contract
year and Matthew Judon's thirty one years old. I think
Deuce says it perfectly on PU all the time. If
Matthew Judon goes down.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
Where is this deal at what.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
Does the whole team do so to get another one
of those guys have bookend pass rushers that can get
after these quarterbacks that are now in your division. There's
some reason in logic to it. I think what people
need to continue to see what their edge rusher spot.
Josh U j only plays forty percent of the time.

(01:15:03):
Josh U j is a sub rusher. He is a
situational pass rusher. He is not a three down player.
He's not a run player. He doesn't play on first down.
So as good as he was last year and as
good as he is at rushing the passer, he is
a situational player. So what we're talking about with a
guy like Miles Murphy or a guy like Lucas van

(01:15:24):
Ness or a guy like Nolan Smith, who these are
all guys they've had in for visits. Tyree Wilson from
Texas Tech is a player that's gonna play eighty percent
of the snaps and you can still get ouch on
the field in the same situations. And maybe Miles Murphy
kicks in, you know, one spot in and plays more
as like an end and then you still have coming

(01:15:44):
off the edge, right, So it's not like you have
to take one or the other on the field. So
I look at it and I see Miles Murphy, Matthew Judaan,
josh U j Christian bar Moore, Dietrich Wise. Good luck
block in that front, right, you know, that's a really
really tough front to block. Somebody's getting a one on

(01:16:05):
one somewhere and it's gonna be a good pass rusher
getting that one on one. So I don't hate it.
I don't hate it. How do you respond to Aaron
Rodgers going to the Jets sack them?

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Well, we've talked about that, we talked about that earlier. Yeah,
you just you try to knock the hell out of them.
That's totally true.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
I don't hate it. The best defense in football right
now is the San Francisco forty nine ers. They're built
through the trenches. That's how they get it. They don't
have a star in the secondary, they don't have a
star cornerback. Jadevious Ward's their best corner right that. That
whole defense runs through the front four. That's that's the
entire defense. So I don't know. I can't, I can't,

(01:16:44):
I can't say no. I can't say no.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Uh, Chad and the at L whoever the player is
and wherever it is they're taking. Considering Bill's trading history,
I would just like them to take an exciting potential playmaker,
someone to put buds in the seats and training and
the regular season. As surprising as it is for Evan,
there are people who consider the cornerback position exciting to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Shocks does.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
He said, Although, by the way, if I am Bill Belichick,
I would trade up and draft Christian Gonzales.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
It's a good pick. Okay, it's a good pick, great player.
I think Christian Gonzalez, out of all of these corners
in this draft, he is the best at everything right, Like,
there's not a flaw in his game. He's not. Yes,
he's not as flashy as Devin Witherspoon, Right, He's not
gonna make the plays on the football that Devin Witherspoon does.

(01:17:38):
He's not as athletically freaky or as long as Joey
Porter Jr. But he is sound and man, he's sounded zone.
He's sound in match, he sound against the run, like
he doesn't do anything bad, and there's something to be
said for that and you watch his film and he
is a smooth sob out there John, Like that guy's

(01:17:59):
got hit that got.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
Oil all over him. The feet are fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
He flips the hips and he runs with anybody like
you just looked at and you're like, how is he
so smooth bound?

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Chick a bow bow?

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Yes, sir, hips don't lie. That's my Shakira.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
Evans hips man, isn't he?

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
That's that's no way you talk like this at home.
Just this is this is my Shakira. The draft his
hips don't lie.

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
I love it. I absolutely love it. That's good stuff.
Eight five five patch five hundred rolling along here. If
you're Bill Belichick, you would take you would draft whom
Claire in the UK, host of The Claire Perspective.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
Listening live, I love I love it?

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Hey Claire? How are you hey?

Speaker 9 (01:18:51):
John?

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
Hey? Girl? Love it? Love it? So you probably have
something to think about that hip movement yourself, right, I
got it a bit.

Speaker 9 (01:19:01):
I was shocked to hear this from Evan. This this
a new side of.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
Evan Oily hips John.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Okay, a little too much information there.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
You can tell that I've been talking about these guys
for four months.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
Right, you're tired of look into the damn tape. Let's
draft these suckers.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Let's go all right, Claire, which the tape?

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
He's looking at the hips?

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
Yeah, which which tight end are you taking in the
first round? Claire, I'm not, Oh the upset of the century.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
I thought for sure you'd be like a Michael Meyer.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
Yeah, yeah, me too.

Speaker 9 (01:19:37):
Oh well yeah, I mean he is kind of my
draft for as they say, and he is the guy
that I sort of would want, but he's the first
round guy, and the Patriots kind of the first round
isn't for the tight endage for them. There's plenty of
kind of depth in the draft. Tiny, So I'm pretty well,
I want I want to say, I'm pretty sure, but
I'm really hoping that they do take at least I

(01:19:59):
want to, but they shouldn't take it least on. But
if you're sort of going number four, see if that's
what you're talking about. The problem that I've got that
it's so difficult to choose. There's so many like Evan
saying Gonzales, he's hits amazing. You've got to know that
a lot of the fan base, like they flowers and
they want that shiny new toy. When it comes to
wide receivers, you've got the edge guys that are good.

(01:20:21):
You've got I know Evan doesn't want him, and I
don't want a running back in the first round, but
b John Robinsons, you know, an elite player. There's so
much there. Linebacker Jack Campbell amazing, if you'd be a
brilliant Patriot. So it's there's so many that you could
choose at fourteen, and I'm going to be really boring
because I really want a good tackle. So for me,
it's kind of like the Broderick Jones or the Peters

(01:20:43):
Goronski because the thing is, the one thing that keeps
drawing me back to taking a tackle first is it's
so difficult to get the value of tackling free agency
without a lot of money. The drafted, where you pick
up guys.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
And get them, there is a question of value there.

Speaker 10 (01:21:01):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I want that kind of that top
guy that you pick early, you pick high, whatever, and
he lasts two years and years and you haven't got
to drop those multi millions big deal to entice a tackle,
to protect your quarterback, to kind of build your team
for the future, to get success for the future.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
Yeah, it's a really good point about tackles and the
really good tackles do not come available too often because
those guys typically get resigned or traded.

Speaker 9 (01:21:31):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
There's really you know, Mike mcglinchy hits free agency. Mike
mclinchy is a good tackle, but he's not an elite tackle.
And then he goes ahead and he breaks the record
for the most money given to a tackle for It's
basically what the Patriots did in twenty one, and the
issues that they ran into with that free agency spending
spree was overpaying for B plus guys exactly. Yeah, and

(01:21:52):
tackle it's completely point.

Speaker 9 (01:21:54):
Yeah, it's a very valid point position where you're overplaying
with glinchy even though he's not exactly what you really
really kind of want, but you're overplaying because you need
you need that tackle. And I think the likes of
Broderick Jones and Peter Skrunsky could possibly really step them
up when it comes to alone. It's kind of boring.
I get it. It's not something that's game changing and

(01:22:15):
sparkly on the field, but it's something that when you
look at the bigger picture as a team, as a fanchise,
how soudid you need an O line? How we saw
the problem last year at the lack of depth and stuff,
and I know that they've kind of possibly addressed that
in free agency this year and stuff. But you want
those super duper guys out there that you can depend on,

(01:22:37):
that you know called rain or shine. They're going to
protect the quarterback. And once you've got that, you haven't
got a worry that in two or three four years
you've got to dump a load of money on a tackle.
You've still got these kids on rookie deals, which is
you're getting such value for money. And yeah, like I said,
I know it's boring, but it just feels like a
really good way of building a team when you've got

(01:22:57):
such these good skill sets that are kind of at fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
In this track, And which tackle do you favor?

Speaker 9 (01:23:05):
I'm really still being between the two.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
I really really get off the fence, Claire, get off
the fence. I know, I know that you just kind
of like nope, no, no, no fence walking, no fence
walking not allowed.

Speaker 9 (01:23:23):
Moment.

Speaker 1 (01:23:23):
So you joined you joined me with Broderick Jones. He
was my pick.

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
I'm very glad that Claire that you you listen to
the programs and you listen to people that talk about
positional value and money. And if you're following the money
with this pick, which is it, really that's the best
way to do things, especially with this team. Let me
tell you where they can, Where they can, you know,
get the best bang for their buck, that's typically where

(01:23:50):
Bill Belichick and the Patriots go.

Speaker 1 (01:23:51):
All right, we have to turn this conversation your direction, though, however,
because we know that the tight end could definitely be
a need here at some point when to the patrons
take one and who's available.

Speaker 9 (01:24:04):
I was hoping in the second round, but I think
it's still too rich because of need. But when I've
been like mocked and stuff like that, I've taken Family.

Speaker 6 (01:24:12):
Reporter at like the forty six, okay.

Speaker 9 (01:24:14):
And then later into maybe the fourth. I really like
Luke Shoemaker. He's so rounded and stuff.

Speaker 10 (01:24:21):
I think much language for the future.

Speaker 9 (01:24:25):
You've got future as well. The thing is, at the moment,
they do need that blocking tight ends, and they can't
just look at the Porter and think they're set for
the future, because they're not, because none of what they've
got now is you know, you've got the serious blocking.
But if you strengthen the O line. It maybe isn't
as much of a need, but I think you've got
a FAMI. Reporter is the kind of what they like say,
weapon in adversity commers if you like. And then for me,

(01:24:47):
Shoemaker is just this really solid value for many tight
ends who can be sturdy and reliable, and he's like
the future sort of things. So I want the double
dip in and I kind of want the than the
Porter and the shoe maker. Ideally i'd have Mayor like
forty six, but that won't happen.

Speaker 1 (01:25:07):
Yeah, he won't probably yet. Yeah, he will probably wouldn't
last that long. I see some max taking him at thirteen. Wait,
Marx taking Mayor higher, Meyer higher at thirteen.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
Yeah, there's a mock today that somebody had the Mayor
at thirteen to the Packers.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
Is a myor? Mayor?

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
I think it's Mayor?

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (01:25:25):
I think?

Speaker 9 (01:25:25):
So? Okay it's Maya.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
Okay, he's he's a well rounded specimen.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
That guy is.

Speaker 9 (01:25:32):
Oh it was my draft course, like before draft crist.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
Yeah, he's uh, he's he's an impressive player. I think
that the best comp to me for him is Jason Witten.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
You know, just is he I've heard that before.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
Is he Rock or Travis Kelsey that he's going to
put up fifteen hundred yards? Probably not, but he's going
to be at like nine hundred and two one thousand
every single year and he's going to block his fine off. Yeah,
you know, just really well rashed. I think at the
worst case scenario, he's like a t. J. Hawkinson and
that's like the low floor for him. Yeah, he's a

(01:26:06):
really good player. I love that you picked that Laporte
is one of your guys though, because he's he's I
probably am higher on laporter than anybody. I have Lapora
Laporta as my second tight end in the draft, behind Mayor.
I think he's better than Kincaid. I think I think
in Caid gets a little bit overrated. Uh Laporta. His

(01:26:26):
athletic profiles off the charts, his separation ability at the
top of the route, his versatility. He's the I think
the best pass catching tight end in the draft. So yeah,
he's fantastic player. I really hope that he he you know,
just looking at Bill O'Brien and the success that he

(01:26:47):
had with the tight ends here the first time around.
He plays a little bit more like the other tight
end that we don't say his name around here anymore,
but he's got that kind of skill set, the ability
to the jitterbug. But at six four two and forty
five pounds, it's a it's a rare, a rare breed,
and he's a really athletic player. I love Laporto.

Speaker 9 (01:27:09):
So you hadn necessary a two minutes ago, and now
you've got the necessary now.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
Because he is my total Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
I love the port not a blocker, but past catching
tight end don't need.

Speaker 1 (01:27:21):
To have some kind of a blocking element because the
way that they line up.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
And there are some guys later on in the draft,
like a Schoonmaker, like a I don't know if you've
gotten this deep yet, Claire, but Breton Strain from Penn
State is one of those blocking tight end types.

Speaker 9 (01:27:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
Yeah, the kid from Oklahoma to them blanking on his
name is a little bit later is more of that
like h back blocking tight end, but he's he's one
of those types that maybe they could pick up. Uh.
But yeah, those guys, there's some blocking tight ends later on.
I love school, Yes, yes, I love Schoonmaker. Though he's

(01:28:00):
schoon I don't know, you might be right on the pronunciation.
There's Claire eyes.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
He said shoe makers. What you say? Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
Yeah, Yeah, he's a really good player. And I think
that he's somebody that you look at the forty time
in the combine and his ability to just burst off
the line of scrimmage and get up the field, up
the seam or on crossing routes and things like that.
And they didn't throw them the ball a ton because
Michigan didn't really run the offense through the tight end
as much as other teams do. So I think he

(01:28:29):
has some untapped potential as a receiver. That a guy
that probably is going to be a better pass catcher
in the NFL than he was in college.

Speaker 9 (01:28:36):
Yeah, I think so. Have you ever got any opinions
on Josh Wiley from Susanastic. He's a much nicer, but
he looks like he's got something.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
Yeah yeah, him in in Mallory from Miami. I think
are two guys that are that are interesting. Valeri ran
the fastest forty at the combine out of the tight ends,
so he's got some more speed. I think Wiley Wiley
is it like a classic block fucking tight end, right,
Like that's a guy that can really that's probably not
going to give you much in the passing game at all,

(01:29:05):
But if you're just looking to get a third tight
end in here that's going to block and short yardage
and goal line and you know, first down and that
type of thing, then he definitely fits the bill.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:29:16):
I liked him. He's one of those lighter guys. I'm
sort of we'll still be keeping my.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
Eye on definitely, John.

Speaker 2 (01:29:23):
Did you know this is going to be a tight
end breakdown segment?

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
I wasn't aware of it, but I knew that when
I saw Clear's name on the on the queue here
that I said, Okay, well, we're definitely gonna get some
tight end cover.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
They gotta take one, and they do need one. It's
a great class.

Speaker 1 (01:29:36):
I'll be hunter.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Henry and Gaseki are under contract for.

Speaker 1 (01:29:39):
One moree more year, so you might be looking at
the future here. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
Neither one of them is really a true in line
guy either. You know, gaseckis certainly not. I think Henry has.

Speaker 1 (01:29:49):
Which is why I would think that they would want
If they're really gonna consider this as a draft pick,
they gotta find somebody who can come in and block yeah,
because that's not the strength of the other two guys.

Speaker 2 (01:29:59):
Yeah, I think we're all an agreement that Mayor in
the first round is probably out. So then you're getting
into like the Darnell Washington's of the world. Tucker Craft
from South Dakota steak and block a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
By the way, don't have Washington. That's the key from Georgia, right.
He hit is huge. He is a huge mammoth of
a man. He's like six seven and seventy or something.

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
I think at the combine he he he slimmed down
a little bit to run well and.

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
Oh well, but he towers over everybody. Yeah he's and
I'm just like, dang, who wouldn't want to throw at that?

Speaker 2 (01:30:30):
Yeah, he's And he's got body control too. Yeah, he's
got that body control to to make those adjustments to
make the catches, you know. So it's not just the
catch radius. He's he can he can catch a back shoulder,
he can contort his body.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
If I'm telling you that, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:30:49):
He's a little bit more of like a I think
that he's So that's the biggest thing that I think
gets misconstrued with the combine because he tested so well
at the combine that everybody thinks that he's this like
freak athlete. He's he's got heavy feet, like he's a plotter. Uh,
he's he's a train right. It takes him a little
while to get up to that top.

Speaker 1 (01:31:08):
Speed one of those guys though, the once he gets going,
he can move.

Speaker 2 (01:31:10):
Yeah. So I think that, you know, as a player
comp like you know, I I when I did my
big board, I just said discount Rob Gronkowski, like maybe
like end a career Rob Gronkowski, right, like not prime Gronk,
but like like eighteen to Tampa Bay Gronk. You know,
So like somewhere in that range, I think is a
player that is what he could become in the league.

(01:31:31):
I don't think that he's going to be as dynamic
of a pass catcher as the combine necessarily suggests.

Speaker 9 (01:31:38):
That's what we're with me. He's got a really low flaw,
but the possibility of a really high series, the gap
that he could the gap between the sort of the
skill set could be so vassed. Yeah, it could be
kind of really he could actually like knock everybody sucks up,
But there's that risk of him.

Speaker 1 (01:31:55):
Really not kind of Yeah, he's either in the.

Speaker 9 (01:31:58):
Potential that you think him.

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
He's either what I just said, Gronk in twenty eighteen,
or he's Mercedes Lewis right like, and that's a pretty
big difference play exactly.

Speaker 9 (01:32:11):
That's what worries me about him.

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
Yeah, Claire, always good to talk to you. Yes, thanks ketto.
You got it Claire in the UK. Let me end
it with this here, V because I got one email
from Howard and Stratford, Connecticut. He says. As I put
on my BBGM cap, I look at the AFC East
and the wide receivers the Pats go up against twice
a year, and with number fourteen, I have to take

(01:32:34):
Deonte Banks, which we've talked about. So that's a second
vote for Banks, the cornerback from Maryland. Now the secondary
is top five in the league. Added to the pass
rush that is developing with judaon and this defense takes
another step toward tops in the league. Combined with an
NFL offense coached by experienced offensive coaches and this team
which won eight games with no offense last year, I

(01:32:56):
could see an easy pickup of two or three wins.

Speaker 2 (01:32:58):
What do you think just from draft in Deontay Banks
or the whole, the whole puzzle.

Speaker 1 (01:33:02):
The whole puzzle. But he says he starts with Deontay
Banks to create the rest of the dominos following him.

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
Yeah, I think if you draft a guy like Deontay Banks,
you hope that you are approaching a level of like
a Sauce Gardner, get it, you know, that type of
flip for your defense or the Jets went from a
good defense to an elite defense really last year with Sauce.
So I yeah, I mean I gave my Deontay Banks
thoughts earlier, and I love the player. I think that
that's if you're looking for that missing piece defensively, then

(01:33:32):
it's probably a number one corner, Like that's sort of
the missing ingredient for them. So I could certainly see it.
And I think, if you know, I picked Jackson with
an Jigbaz, the guy that I would want them to draft,
I would say that the guy that I can most
say I think they would draft would probably be Ze Flowers.
But if I had to pick a defensive player, I
would go at Deontay Banks Bank as well.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
All right, Then the final thing I have to put
it here ev is because of the rumor and I
don't know if it's just rumor. We've seen it written
by several of the writers. I think you've even mentioned
it as well here from time to time, But the
fact that the Patriots might just be interested in finding
a quarterback at some point. I know there's been a
talk about Will Levis because he was a you know,
he went to training camp and all that kind of stuff,

(01:34:15):
and you know, I think he's got any New England
roots and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:34:18):
Here.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
See he's born in Newton but lived in Connecticut, right, Okay, So.

Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
And I think that's a that's ridiculous to even even consider.
He'll be long gone, probably even before the Patriots take
it fourteen. But you don't know, you don't know where
guys are gonna slide. Do the Pats consider a quarterback?
And when should they consider a quarterback? Considering now there's
only two of them? Right? Well, I know they signed somebody,
but I mean at the same time, right, they need

(01:34:43):
they need competition. And what happens if Mac doesn't turn
out the way that we all think he can and
hope he can, But what if he doesn't, do they
actually get an eye toward that. I'm just kind of
asking you the quarterback conundrum, if you will.

Speaker 2 (01:34:58):
Absolutely, I I think there's legitimate interest in Will Levis
for the Patriots. I don't think that this is just
a due diligence pick the guy's brain because he might
go to the Colts and he might play him down
the line or all that type of stuff that gets
thrown out. I don't think that that's I think there's
legitimate interest in the player, and I think that he
fits what they do a little bit better than maybe

(01:35:20):
on the surface it looks like he would. I think
Will Levis is a really misunderstood prospect. I think a
lot of people look at him, his size, his arm, talent,
and they think Josh Allen, Right, you know, he's just
this ball of clay, that can athlete that gets outside
the pocket and makes these ridiculous you know, off platform
throws fifty yards down the field. That's not the player

(01:35:43):
that I saw watching him. I see a guy that's
much more functional in structure in the pocket, operating the offense.
I think his decision making issues come when he's improving, right.
I think he tends to cash a check that you know,
whatever right a check is, he can't cash right, you know,
when he goes on in the move and now he's
trying to throw across his body, across the field or

(01:36:05):
into tight window coverage down the field, and that's when
he gets these interception numbers, and that's why he threw
so many picks. So I think that there's a reason
football reasons, you know, in between the lines, reasons for
them to have some interest in Will Levis. I don't
think they go in that direction. Ultimately. I think if
you look at this quarterback class, it's tough because there's
not really a great middle tier to this quarterback class.

(01:36:30):
There's the four guys at the top. There's Henn Hooker,
who's kind of this wild card that I think is
gonna end up going in the first round. So it's
probably gonna be too rich for them anyways.

Speaker 1 (01:36:38):
Even even with this Andrew situation.

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
Yeah, I think he'll end up going into the first round.

Speaker 1 (01:36:41):
Wow. So because I was gonna ask you specifically about.

Speaker 2 (01:36:45):
Hook he's the guy that everybody the guy that everybody's
describing like the Jalen Hurts pick for the Patriots is
probably hend and Hooker. But Hennen Hooker is going to
go in the end of the first round and not
in the second round like Jalen Hurts did, so there's
a little bit of an issue there. And then once
you get past Hooker, there's a huge drop off now

(01:37:06):
to the next tier quarterbacks, you know, the Tanner mckeys
of the world and the Josh Hayner is like j Hayner.
Excuse me that that drop off is steep. So if
you're not going quarterback in the top fifty, you're probably
not going quarterback into like the fourth round, right, That's
the type of draft that it is. So I would
say that I don't know if it's a bold prediction
or not, but I would predict that the Patriots will

(01:37:28):
take a quarterback in the fourth round with one of
those three fourth round picks. I lean towards dtr from
UCLA just because they worked with him at the Shrine Bowl,
and it seems like athletically he's got some upside, he's
got some mobility. I compared him to Tyrod Taylor. He's
kind of that type of player. So I think that
there's something to be said for They already have the

(01:37:48):
Bailey Zappies and the mac Jones of the world.

Speaker 1 (01:37:51):
Let's get so you need something that's kind.

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Of different, right, a little bit more toolsy. Yeah, correct,
So I think that they could do that. I like
Hayter a lot though, too, and he's got some he's
got some khons, right, Like, he's got some of that
that uh, that that grit, that that toughness and that
intangible similar to kind of like a Taylor Heineke where
he's just got there's something about him, right, and he's

(01:38:13):
kind of a little wild and and just plays with
his hair on fire. So I do like him a
little bit. But it's a tough quarterback class, it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:38:21):
There's somebody though that could be a little developable.

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
Right, Yeah, those two guys I think have some upside,
have some athletic ability. I'd also throw out Jaron Hall
from b YU as another one of those guys that
has that athletic upside off platform ability can just flick
the wrists and throw the football, uh, you know, twenty
yards down the field on the line.

Speaker 1 (01:38:41):
You know. So one of those picks on the fourth
round might be one of the spots. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:44):
I think Look, until until they hit, they know one
hundred percent sure that they have the quarterback. Until you're
in a look, they're not going to be in a
Patrick Mahomes category. But like, until they're in that level
of category where there's no question about who the quarterback
of this team is, you gotta keep taking quarterbacks. I
don't know how you don't. And even with Tom Brady here,

(01:39:05):
they used to take quarterbacks every other year as it is,
so I don't know why they wouldn't necessarily unless they
just hate the class, which is possible because it's not
a great class.

Speaker 1 (01:39:16):
Right, all right, I get two more quick rapid fire
ones for you before I'm not gonnat that. No, no, no,
you'll be fine. You'll be fine. You'll be fine right now.
Number one, most surprised pick, you think, or most surprised position,
I should say that the Patriots take highly What would
really shock.

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
You anything on the interior, like defensive tackle or obviously
an interior lineman. I don't think anything else would shock
me though, because like even like safety. You know, Devin
mccorty just retired, So if they took Brian Branch from Alabama,
would any of us be totally shocked?

Speaker 1 (01:39:50):
No, because they just yeah, as you said, they'd retire.

Speaker 2 (01:39:53):
Of safety, right, So I would just say anything on
the interior and I can't. I can't roll out running backs.
I don't think that would surprise me either, So really
de tackle or you know, like a center, I think
it would be pretty shocking. But other than that, again,
it's sort of the roster thing right of got a
lot of holes. So like anywhere else, really maybe linebacker.

(01:40:15):
It's not a great linebacker class, especially at the top.
I think Jack Campbell and Drew Sanders will be the
first two linebackers off the board, maybe sometime in the forties.
So it's not a great linebacker class either.

Speaker 1 (01:40:25):
Do the Patriots keep all eleven picks?

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
No, consolidate? I think that they're going to be way
under eleven. I'd say like eight or nine. They just
don't have the roster spots for it. You know, they
have seventy five guys.

Speaker 1 (01:40:37):
I was going to say, yeah, we're gonna update seventy
five guys right now. Yes, so you can get to ninety.

Speaker 2 (01:40:43):
Right sot free agents, right That only leaves you four
spots for undrafted free agents if you have an eleven
pick rookie class. So I think that they consolidate. My
guess is is it's a trade back in the first
round or pick at fourteen and then maybe trade up
in the second round and do the Christian bar Moore
trade reducts, you know, move up eight six to eight

(01:41:04):
spots to to land a top forty player with the
second pick in the draft, you know, their second pick
in the draft, something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
All right, I'll let you go. I know you need
I know you need a get go one. So I do,
I do.

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
I got a. I'm gonna have a phone interview with
Matt Light, Patriots Hall of Famer.

Speaker 1 (01:41:21):
Yes, and a lot of that is gonna be because
we have He's gonna You're gonna ask you about our
next Patriots Hall of Famer.

Speaker 2 (01:41:28):
Our next Yes, we don't know who the player pick is,
but we know that Dante's Dante Skarneck. I've got some
great stuff from Scar himself, Ivan Fears David Andrews, so
I'd add that Light to it. It's very very cool.
It's very cool listening to Ivan in particular talk about
what Dante meant to his career and basically took him

(01:41:49):
under his wing and made sure that he was he
was okay in the NFL world. And you know, I
really looked at Dante is like a big brother, you know,
father type figure, and it was it was pretty cool
to hear him, you know, get so emotional talking about
I never had to worry about my job or if
I was going to stick in the NFL because Dante

(01:42:10):
Dante had me. You know, Dante was going to take
care of me. And I could see how much that
meant to him.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
All Right, we'll get right back to the phones and
the emails. Just wanted Evan to get off to his
interview here. Ev I appreciate it everybody listening to Catch
twenty two with him and Barth. All right, and I
know that you'll have the live coverage tomorrow night of
the draft right here on Patriots dot Com Radio. Through
all the Patriots picks, through all the picks in the NFL.
These guys will come in on, you know, whether or
not they think they did a good job, whether they
did a crappy job or you know, or did they

(01:42:38):
miss out here. That'll be the fun part is getting
the Patriots perspective on everybody else's picks during the draft,
of course, coming up tomorrow night. All right, quick break,
then we're right back to the phones. Coming up here
on Patriots dot Com Radio. In the playbook Patriots Playbook

(01:43:41):
on Patriots dot Com Radio. I'm John Rook. Thanks to
Evan Lazar, you know, as he's done all the homework,
and so I really wanted Evan. Alex obviously has his
day job that he had to get to today, which
is we talked about at the top of the program
today at ninety eight five Aaron Boston. But they're the
guys that do all the work. They're the guys that

(01:44:01):
you know, that do all the research to do all
the film watching, do all the video watching, do all
the reading, do all the researching. You know, and you
and I and and and all of us who love
the draft, and all of us who love playing draft
games and try to figure out who the hell or
what the hell is going to go on with such
and touch Team SUTN Chutch Area. You know, that's fine,

(01:44:22):
it's great. That's part of the fund. That's why we're
all attracted to this. It's why the NFL Draft has
grown to the experience that it is and has been
over the last ten to twenty years from what it
used to be when you know it really started in
the sixties. Can you believe that it used to be
Pete Rosel, the then commissioner at a chalkboard, a blackboard,

(01:44:46):
that's what it used to be. And so you can
understand a little bit why, you know, at least initially
when ESPN wanted to televise, which began in you know,
in nineteen what seventy nine, I guess when ESPN turned
it into a TV spectacle of nineteen seventy nine, nineteen
eighty and then Mel Kuiper, my buddy Mel Kuiper, who

(01:45:06):
will certainly be front and center throughout the course of
this weekend on ESPN's coverage. He joined the NFL draft
coverage I think at like eighty four, eighty three, eighty four,
and Mel he's one of the few guys I know
whose job three hundred and sixty five days a year
is the NFL Draft. That's what he does. He puts
together his draft guide and he researches all these guys,

(01:45:26):
and he's probably already started work on twenty twenty four.
But I would tell you that as soon as the
twenty twenty three draft is over this weekend, he'll already
be walking on twenty twenty four, if he's not already.
And that's just kind of what he does, and a
lot of people subscribe to that, including a lot of
teams subscribed to some of the things that he does
and the research that he does, And so our own
researcher here in Evan and Alex as well with the

(01:45:49):
podcast they do that Catch twenty two and they get
the chance to talk a lot of football, and it's
a great addition. If you haven't heard it, you know,
I want those guys. They're the ones that have done
the study. You know, you and I I could certainly
sit here and figure it out ourselves because I watch
a lot of football. I see a lot of video clips.
I know you do as well. I listen to Good
Morning Football on occasion on NFL Network. You know, certainly

(01:46:13):
see all this stuff on the NFL programs on ESPN.
So I kind of feel like I know a little,
but I don't know what these guys know. They really
Evan does such a superb job of breaking it down.
He really does, and he makes it easy to understand. Like,
for instance, the whole you know Oily Hips thing we
were talking about, I mean that I understand where he's

(01:46:35):
coming from, and we're making fun of him for that,
but I mean, at the same time, I get it,
slippery guy, that's what we're looking for. You need somebody
with that quote unquote missibility like I like to the
phrase I like to use like a Bijon Robinson of
Texas or what have you. Anyway, so that's why we
want to emphasize that right now. Let's continue with you
here at eight five five Pats five hundred, and the

(01:46:56):
question of the day, if you tuned in live late,
largely has been if I'm Bill Belichick, I would draft blank,
fill in the blank. All right. We have Jackson Smith,
the Jigbo. We have Roderick Jones, Say Flowers, Bjohn Robinson,
we got Banks, Murphy Gonzales, trade up and go get Gonzales.

(01:47:19):
These are the guys that we've had mentioned already, all right.
And of course, if you ultimately select the person who
is taken by the Patriots first at fourteen at the
number fourteen spot, then you get a chance to come
in and co host a show with me next month
or June. We'll figure it out whatever's more convenient either
the mayor of the June editions of the playbook. But

(01:47:41):
that's kind of what's at stake here. I know that's
a big hunteror so we want to make sure that
you everybody has an opportunity at that. Let's get to
Nelson in Los Angeles. Here, Hey Nelson here in the playbook.

Speaker 4 (01:47:51):
Hey, how we're doing today?

Speaker 1 (01:47:52):
I'm great, Nelson. How's it going?

Speaker 3 (01:47:55):
Good? Good?

Speaker 4 (01:47:56):
If it said I'll get an edge Russer, I just
think Junior Alabama?

Speaker 1 (01:48:01):
Okay, is he gonna be around?

Speaker 3 (01:48:04):
We need?

Speaker 1 (01:48:06):
Yeah? But is he gonna be around?

Speaker 4 (01:48:10):
Well, if he's around, I'll get him. Okay, I'll get him.

Speaker 1 (01:48:14):
All right, all right, So tell me what it is
specifically why you think he's going to be around, if
you do think he's going to be around, and why
you want him.

Speaker 4 (01:48:25):
I want him because he's a big guy. He knows
how to rush in and Judan does a lot of work.
He needs, you know, he needs somebody else to help
him out a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
Okay, all right, Well I think for you we did
talk about that, by the way, all right, go ahead, out.

Speaker 4 (01:48:43):
Of all out of all of wide receivers, say they
take the five top fire receivers at the tap. Which
other receivers are you interesting at.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
Of the receivers of the receivers, Well, the one the
receiver that I like is Quentin john for TCU. That's
the guy that I like. Uh, And it's probably because
I've seen him play a little bit more often now
I've seen a lot of Zay flowers as well, just
because of him being at Boston College. But I'm intrigued
by Johnson's length. He's I think he's got some some

(01:49:15):
burst and some speed in a little bit of separation.
But you're talking about a guy that's got longer arms
and and he's one of those guys that actually go
up and get a ball if you need it. And
and I think that's probably why I like him more.
And it's not that I don't like Zay. I think
if they took Zay, I think could be happy with him,
just like everybody would probably be ultimately happy with him.

(01:49:36):
But to me, I just think his physical nature and
his physical presence would be something that would set him
apart from others. For me, what do you think? But
he's he's in a five top, Okay, So.

Speaker 4 (01:49:51):
I told you, not no five? The five already gone?
Say they gone already And he's in a five.

Speaker 3 (01:49:58):
So he's gone.

Speaker 4 (01:49:58):
They are the rest right? He was in there right now?
I think six and seven and all the way down.
Who will you think will be a good fit for
you for the Patriots.

Speaker 1 (01:50:10):
Well, there's no reason why he can't be a fit.
You know, you're you're you're stuck in trying to, you know,
fulfill roles. I don't think I think you have to
look beyond that. You know, he can certainly fit with
what he does. He's going to be an outside guy,
that's all you say.

Speaker 4 (01:50:25):
Yeah, I know he'll fit with us. Well, he's in
a five, he's in a five top. Why receive where
draft lift? I say, say they take the five, we
see what's from the draft list.

Speaker 1 (01:50:38):
I'll be Nelson. I'll be honest, I haven't gone any
deeper than that because I'm not sure that they I'm
not sure that they I'm not sure that they a
that they need to because anybody after the second round,
you know, to me, I think you throw him in
a hat and you pick one and you're happy with it. See,
the only guys, the only guys that you really need
to be concerned about. And this is what we talked

(01:51:00):
about at the very beginning of the show today, was
that you know, when you have a pick as high
as fourteen overall, you know you're gonna get a chance
to get a Blue Chipper, so you don't want to
mess that opportunity up, which is why a lot of
people I think would still be upset if the Patriots
figure out a way to trade down again, which could happen.
It has happened. We know that Bill Belichick's likes, he
loves to trade down, and they'd be disappointing that because

(01:51:23):
you rarely get an opportunity to draft this high in
the draft and you want somebody that you know is
a first round guy on every team's draft list, and
if you're gonna go after the top, well you do.
But so if you're telling me, all right, who do
I like after the top five receivers? Dude, I don't
study it that hard. Okay. I just don't why because

(01:51:44):
throw him in a bag and I'll pick one's That's
all I'm talking about. Okay, So you know, to me, look,
if you're I don't think the Patriots end up taking
a receiver high, but a guy like Johnson could end
up sliding to a second round spot. He could, and
it wouldn't surprise me to see him go, say a
forty six, wouldn't surprise me at all.

Speaker 4 (01:52:05):
All right, So I'll see you. I'll talk to you
later than you. Have a nice day.

Speaker 1 (01:52:08):
Thanks Nelson.

Speaker 4 (01:52:10):
Quickly we don't trade down or nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:52:11):
There you go, Thanks Nelson, appreciate you. Todd in Greenville, Hey.

Speaker 11 (01:52:15):
Todd, long time no talk, mister rook How are you, Bud?
Not bad? Went through some crazy times, had a house,
lost the house, a new house, and move to going
to move someplace else, to another country, then back to
having a house and wow.

Speaker 1 (01:52:31):
So it has been it's been up and down for you.

Speaker 11 (01:52:33):
Huh, yeah, it's been. It's been a wild ride.

Speaker 1 (01:52:37):
Well, I hope everything's okay.

Speaker 11 (01:52:39):
Yeah, everything's fine and uh and everything will be fine
when the Patriots trade right out of the first round
entirely and get themselves like two second rounders, and then
I'll be hosting the show with you there, rookie.

Speaker 1 (01:52:52):
Okay, I like it all right.

Speaker 11 (01:52:54):
So if they don't trade out, I would I would
love to see them actually trade up and do whatever
they could to get Gonzales. I think he's amazing, and
I think that would set that defense to such a
high level that if the offense does just case or
twenty one points, because that was that was last year
and hopefully they do better this year. But you know,

(01:53:15):
they get twenty one, twenty four points, they can win
because that defense would be just insane.

Speaker 1 (01:53:21):
That's exactly what Evan and I were talking about, you know,
and he said, look, you got to be able to
beat teams thirty to twenty seven. You have to be
able to do that. So that's why there's an emphasis on,
I think, still finding some offensive players because at some
point in time, you got to be able to outscore
a team. You're not going to beat Buffalo in a
twenty to seventeen game, probably not going to happen.

Speaker 11 (01:53:42):
Well, I don't know. The defense last year was insane
and if they.

Speaker 1 (01:53:45):
Have, well it's they alongside they've made strides. Okay, I
will certainly give you that, but nobody in this day
and age of offensive football, nobody really is. I mean,
if you give it up seventeen eighteen points a game,
you're considered lockdown, and that on average. There are gonna
be games that you're gonna you know, you're gonna play
a week or point it opponent and you're gonna give
up thirteen or fourteen, and there could be other games

(01:54:06):
where you give up twenty four to twenty seven, and
the average of that is still gonna be right there
in the middle. So you know, I'm I'm you need.
I am of the opinion the Patriots need more offensive push.
They need more help on the offensive side. And if
I'm not drafting the lineman, which is what I think
they would do, it will do at fourteen. I would
definitely have to take a look at receiver. And even

(01:54:27):
though a guy like Johnson is my guy, I would
think they will take Flowers.

Speaker 11 (01:54:31):
Yes, yeah, I love Flowers. No, I'm just this is
the way Bill thinks. And I'm pretty sure that if
he doesn't trade under the first round, you'll get himself
a defensive player there.

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
Okay, And which one do you like?

Speaker 10 (01:54:44):
Well?

Speaker 11 (01:54:44):
I like Gonzalez. I would like them to trade up.
I don't think you want Gaza.

Speaker 4 (01:54:47):
I don't know where.

Speaker 11 (01:54:48):
Okay, Bill is too unpredictable. I really don't know where
you to be honest, John, But my pick would be Gonzalid.

Speaker 1 (01:54:56):
Okay, So you think that, so you'll say they trade
up and they take gonz the corner from Morgan.

Speaker 11 (01:55:01):
Oh No, what I'm really saying is they're going to
trade out entirely of the first round and get the
second round pack for their first round.

Speaker 1 (01:55:07):
Is okay? So you so they'll you think they'll trade
out all together? Oh yeah, okay, but I'm gonna hold
you to the Gonzales pick. That's your pick. If they
if they go, okay, all right, that's fine. And I
kind of I kind of agree with you in terms
of the not trading out. I don't think they trade out.
I think what they'll do is they're they're gonna drop

(01:55:29):
back and they're gonna uh, my guess is they'll look
at you know, if the guy right there from Tennessee
is on the board, you know, if someone like Jones
drops uh and Skearansky is the one that's also kind
of dropping a little bit in stature over the last
couple of days, if they think they can get him
at eighteen to twenty, I could see them trading down

(01:55:51):
and picking up an extra top one hundred pick and
then taking that lineman at that spot like that, I
could see see.

Speaker 11 (01:55:58):
I hope you actually are in the home somewhere when
they do the drafting, like in Patriots Stadium, so that
are near the studios, because when Bill does something like
take the running back first or something. I just want
you to be there to eyewitness, you know, the explosion
of Evan induce, because I I think that's going to
be epic. Know Bill is going to do something. And

(01:56:20):
those two like they're already a Debbie downers.

Speaker 1 (01:56:23):
For ye yeah, I get they're they're.

Speaker 11 (01:56:26):
A little bit out. Well then so is Andy hart
Heart actually on his show said that he thinks Bill
is losing it. He thinks Bill is slipping with you know,
the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:56:34):
I've seen and say that. I know I've seen Andy
say that.

Speaker 11 (01:56:37):
Yeah, you know who knows. But yeah, I hope you're
there and I'll let you go and get somebody else's bick.

Speaker 1 (01:56:43):
Thanks brother, all right, all right, talk to you all right,
Thanks Todd, and take care all right, keep everybody safe, Eldred.
What's happened in my man?

Speaker 3 (01:56:53):
Hey, mister Manson, good to talk to you, my brother.

Speaker 1 (01:56:56):
Always good to talk to you, my friend. How are you.

Speaker 3 (01:56:59):
Doing? Really good? Hopefully I'm just the last load. I
gotta do them going back to his yard. Hope I
can go home.

Speaker 1 (01:57:05):
Okay, that sounds good, And then you'll climb in that
camaro and go home, yes.

Speaker 3 (01:57:10):
Sir, And then sit back and the dread tomorrow and
like I always do for the last ten to fifteen years. Okay,
because the same guy doing the picket. So and I
agree with Andy, But see I've been saying that for years.
They've not been knocking me off. And I'm like, I'm
telling you, you never get the guy. You always get

(01:57:30):
the mother guys. And the mother guys go arounding out rosters,
but they ain't your superstars. It ain't your corps. But
the problem with Bill he get a corp and once
they produced, he don't want to pay me and get
rid of And that's the part to be kissing me
off the most. You know, you got good guys that
you homegrown, and once they produced a little bit, you know,

(01:57:50):
unless they good foot soldiers like mccordy, you'll pay him,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:57:55):
True.

Speaker 3 (01:57:55):
Then I hate just know this news they're talking about
Max and Will Levis. Well everybody said they don't know
why I knew England got all their interest when nobody
else really do you know? But that's deal?

Speaker 1 (01:58:07):
Well you think you know? Do you think it's the
Patriot's interest as driving Levice is stock up?

Speaker 3 (01:58:13):
I think so, But I be honest with you, I
wouldn't be surprised that Bill'll go get him because he
because of Max.

Speaker 1 (01:58:21):
You know, well, we'll find out for sure if if
you know, if he has any trouble with Mac, because
if they end up taking a guy like Levis, especially
somewhere there in the first round, then we know, Okay, Well,
then why the hell didn't they trade Mac when they
could have? I mean, that's what I would ask.

Speaker 3 (01:58:36):
Because because the Texan I'm sorry, I mean to get.

Speaker 1 (01:58:39):
Y'all start, that's right, No, no, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:58:41):
Because the Texan does a night. Because I brought it
up with PU. They just came out and said they
might not take a quarterback in the second round. They
thinking about trading for you the tree Lance or mac Jones.
And they named him too pacifically, okay, and they named
him partifically. They didn't say, well, we'll try about Sam,
might get another veteran. I just they said Trey Lance

(01:59:03):
or mac Jones. But they said Matt first, then Trey Lance,
you know, and just build up their defense with the
piece they need and then if next year it was
the better a group of quarterbacks, you know, to make
you one next year. But he's gonna try to run
it like San Francisco Dad when they brought party again.
That's why Trey Lance now is despendable, which is tricky

(01:59:24):
because you got rid of Jimmy. I'll keep Trey Lance
just for the backup, just in case, but he can't
something after party. But Perry prove he can run run
the offense.

Speaker 1 (01:59:33):
All right, So, Eldred, I'm gonna I'll put you on
the spot here. You gotta answer the question. If I'm
Bill Belichick, I would draft who.

Speaker 3 (01:59:43):
I'm like everybody else, even though I'm a wide receiver guy.
I'll go up and get gun dollars and uh hip
out with my defense because them little show corners ain't
gonna come nobody. I'm sorry, you ain't got speed on
the iight, I'll get him and then I will double
dip in the stuck in the third and get me
another corner. So you wide receivers.

Speaker 1 (02:00:03):
Are deep, okay? All right? So all right, So you
think the wide receivers are deep enough where they can
go get somebody later, and you'd take two corners with
your first two picks.

Speaker 3 (02:00:12):
I will cost be honest with you, Bill, he ain't
thinking like the NFL that uh that you know you
got to air the ball out to throw. Uh, I'm
like Andy Games, I'm passing by. He still think it's
a nineteen ninety Yeah, So uh, I beat up my
defense with those corners because, like you said, you got
Myles Bright no Jaalen Mills.

Speaker 9 (02:00:33):
No.

Speaker 3 (02:00:34):
I love the kids from last year, but he's fired.
They good to the spot. But you ain't gonna get
speed and tall guys fish for back that they we're
gonna be facing this year. So you gotta get somebody.
And I wouldn't put him on the bench. They're gonna
just start, you know, and get your liscense in early,
get your headaches in early. Because this is not a
rebuilt of just not just not what you call just

(02:00:56):
rebi go to the super Bowl. This gonna be a
retuning for for a minute that you shouldn't. You would
have had that last year if you picked one last
year instead of cold range. It didn't get another corner,
but you got a guard. But I wouldn't be surprised
if you got alignment. If they trade down to get alignment,
but I'll trade up get guns dollars. That's my pick
what I would do.

Speaker 1 (02:01:14):
Okay, all right, And I'm actually a little surprised that
you were going defense. But okay, I like your reasoning.
It's fine. I thought for sure you'd go for the
separation guy on offense.

Speaker 3 (02:01:24):
I do I want, I want him, ain't gonna liketch you.
I ain't gonna nothing that I want. Quitting Johnson bad.
But right now you need help on that defense. What
you trying to score? If you can't stop him from scoring?

Speaker 1 (02:01:34):
If you can't, okay, But conversely, if you don't learn
how to outscore teams like Buffalo, how are you gonna
beat them?

Speaker 3 (02:01:41):
Exactly?

Speaker 1 (02:01:42):
So you know, well, that's yeah, and john and like you,
I like Johnson too, so that you know that would
be because I don't think Flowers would be around, but
I think Johnson could be. And I think Johnson is
potentially an obtainable receiver.

Speaker 3 (02:01:57):
Right, but I heard, uh cover these marks. It's twenty
fifth to not twenty sixty whatever. Well, Buffalo is to Buffalo,
and then some got him going somewhere, but some of
them got him going in the second round.

Speaker 1 (02:02:10):
Yeah, Well that's what I'm Yeah, that's what I'm banking on.
He slides to the second Patrick take a chance, maybe
even to move up in the second to take a
guy like.

Speaker 3 (02:02:18):
That, I will host so but if he's gone, Bill,
get the confound corner, quit being stubborn and leave maclone.
That's all you got to do it. It was your
problem that calls this did like you just throw it
Winn's career. You try to throw a Max now and
I still say that.

Speaker 1 (02:02:35):
I love it. I love it. Eldred, be safe out
on the road, my man. Will you all right, sir?

Speaker 3 (02:02:40):
You have a good one now, thanks.

Speaker 1 (02:02:41):
Buddy, all right, the one and only Eldred to North Carolina.
What day we pick him for next month? Man? Thank you?
So the last day of the month. Hell okay, So
our next edition our post draft, and I guess I
should say post OTA because we'll have OTA's coming up
beginning in May. As you know, we'll actually have players
on the field and guys will can sign everything, and

(02:03:02):
it won't be mini camp yet. Mini camp will roll
around in June, but there will be OTA's beginning in
May about mid May, early to mid May. And so yeah,
that's right. Oh yeah, so that's right. I totally forgot
that the schedule will be coming out probably in the
next week. I would say in the next week. And
if you're listening here, you know, to the pod. Before

(02:03:25):
the draft. The schedule be out very surely, so we'll
have the schedule to talk about. We can run through
some of the wins and the losses, the trouble spots,
the good spots. We'll understand a little bit more certainly.
We'll recap on the draft and see where the Patriots
fit into this ever improving, ever crowded now AFC East picture,
which is just extraordinary. And we'll also have the the

(02:03:46):
winner in our draft contest. Today. We've had let's see,
Jackson Dijigbo, We've had Broderick Jones, We've had Zave Flowers,
We've had bj Jean Robinson, We've had Banks, Murphy, Zales, Anderson. Okay,
these are all the guys that we've had. Gonzalez is
the one that was selected the most. The Patriots trade

(02:04:06):
up to go take Gonzales the corner from Oregon. Three
people selected that. So if that happens and they take him,
then we'll choose from a hat. We'll see who wins,
and either we'll do it on May thirty first, or
we'll do it in June one of the other, whatever's
easiest for whoever wins the contest if you're listening to
the pod before the draft. So if you're listening shall

(02:04:28):
we say here Wednesday night or Thursday during the day
before the draft begins on Thursday night, you can still
throw your pick in. Send me a tweet at JR Broadcaster. Okay,
tell me who you think Bill Belichick should select at
number fourteen. That's what I want you to do. And

(02:04:48):
if you come up good and the Patriots make that pick,
you're in the runner fair enough. Thanks to Evan Lazar
for all the heavy lifting and the heavy work, and
Matt you're appreciated. As always, we've got May thirty first
coming up for our next edition of Patriots Playbook. Enjoy the Draft,
everybody I know I will. Thank you for downloading this podcast.

(02:05:12):
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