January 10, 2023 • 40 mins
In this episode of Pats from the Past we sit down with three-time Super Bowl Champion James Develin. Among the highlights of the interview include: His unique journey to the NFL, that led him to his ultimate position of fullback. The toughest player he had to block-you’ll be surprised. His favorite moment on the field for the Patriots WASN’T a Super Bowl and more!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
It's time now for another episode of Patch from the
Past podcast Matt Smith along with Paul Perlo, and we're
pleased to be joined by number forty six on your scorecard,
but number one in our hearts, at least for today, right. Well,
and that's James Devil, who joins us all the way
from the Jersey Shore. James, how nice to see you, well, guys,
thanks for having me on. Yeah, I appreciate it. Um.
(00:28):
Have you getting some of that Jim tan laundry thing
going a little bit? Although there's not much tanning going
on right now. No, it's so great here I can't
even believe it. I don't remember the last time we
saw the sun. It's been fogg. It's been nothing but
fogg here for like a week. Um, but it's all
good man. Yeah, And I do think, Paul, I don't
know if you ever catch us, but I do think
(00:50):
periodically we still see a little Sullivan entire commercial every
once in a blue moon with James on it. James
is thrilled to hear that. M Please tell I've got
a good set of all wheel tires or something at
least out of that. Oh yeah, yeah, mister Sullivan takes
care of me. Man, He's been a great friend. Um.
You know, we kind of established a relationship while I
(01:10):
was up there playing and um, and honestly, I look
up to him now was like like me and my
little entrepreneurial role. Um. You know, he's got a lot
of knowledge and experience in this world. So um, we're
trying to just you know, keep it fun and keep
it light. And he's been a great partner thus far.
So you mentioned entrepreneurial James, and we ask everybody about this.
(01:33):
Some people are more visible, guys who were in broadcasting
things like that, Like things like that. What it's James
deviling up to these days? Sure? Yeah, so uh so
upon retirement, I've retired right into that you know, initial
onset of COVID, so things kind of slowed down a
little bit. But honestly, it was nice for me to
kind of like just ease my way into like you know,
(01:54):
being a real adult and stop playing a child's game, um, professionally.
So I did a lot of soul searching, a lot
of like what I wanted to do. My biggest priority
these days is my family. Got four kids now and
my wife obviously, so I'm huge, huge family man try
to keep that to you know, the highest level of importance.
(02:17):
But I wanted to. I knew I wanted to kind
of create my own legacy beyond football. I wanted to
control my my time and destinies here. So I decided
to go into this entrepreneurial role. I actually took a
entrepreneurial course through the NFLPA Trust and that helped kind
(02:37):
of just connect me with with you know, people that
were local and across the country that could kind of
guide me and what I wanted to do. And ended
up buying a business here on the Jersey Shore called Soulberry.
It's a little, uh coffee, smoothie, sae bowl type place
two blocks off the beach. And so now I'm trying
to expand that that business for more towns on the
(03:02):
Jersey Shore and then hopefully beyond that. Um my goal
here and like maybe the next five to ten years
is to have one in Patriot Place. So hopefully we
can get a soul Berry up there. Maybe we'll have
to do a sequel to the Passion Pass with jo
We'll keep you in the circulation here for Robert and Jonathan,
so we'll get that done. Obviously, James your story is
(03:23):
one that's been told a lot, you know, not the
most common path to the NFL. But I'm just curious, Uh,
you know, in your time at Brown and your positional moves,
you know, when did you think I can do this?
I can I could be an NFL player. Was there
a time before you actually made it that you really
thought that you could do this? Yes? So I always
(03:46):
kind of had the self belief, right, Um, I think
that you kind of need that when you're just embarking
on this kind of quest. And like you said, I
was definitely not like a highly touted prospect coming on
to college. I had to kind of scrap happened claw
to find an agent just to who represent me, let alone,
you know, get in front of some NFL teams, and really,
(04:09):
I would say I went so after college, I went
and had a try out with the Cleveland Browns. Didn't
even make it to the third day. They had me
at three four outside linebacker. I was, I was a mess.
And then after that played an arena football. Then I
played in the UFL and that's when I made the
switch to fullback. And I'd say that's when I really
felt like, hey, I can do something. Here because I
(04:30):
was playing. I was one of two, like you know,
true rookies on the team, and all the other guys,
i'd say ninety five percent of the roster were x
NFL guys. So it kind of gave me like the
first like barometer to measure myself against. And so when
I earned it, started position and I was like making
(04:51):
some some nice plays out there. That's when I really
felt like, hey, I can do this. I just need
the right opportunity. And then you know, practice squads stuff
like that. Three years later, I was, you know, starting
for the Pats, so at all kind of that's when
it really like that was my jump off point. I
don't know that Paul and I can sit here. I
know we can't sit here. And what's it like to
(05:12):
be in an IVY League school? But did you you know,
was this dream something that you were dreaming of what
you were Brown? Did you get made fun of? Did
you say, oh, please, come on, you're gonna end up
doing you know, be a lawyer, You'll be a doctor.
You know, that's why you come to Brown. And conversely,
did you also hear it when you're in the UFL?
You know, hey, ivy you know did you get stuck
(05:32):
with a nickname or was there any kind of stigmatism
to IVY League guys don't make it to the NFL,
what you know, maybe in their training staff or something
like that. Yeah, so I'd say, first and foremost being
at Brown, I mean there was there was definitely doubters because,
like you said, they're not every day you know, guys
come out of the football powerhouse at is Brown University,
(05:55):
let in the entire IVY League. But you know, I
was experienced. I had a year on the team with
Zach Diasi and he was drafted to the Giants as
a linebacker, then ended up having a thirteen year career
as a long snapper. But I knew it was possible,
and that's kind of all I needed to hear. The rest.
It was kind of up to me, So I yeah,
(06:15):
there was doubters. Yeah, there was times when you know,
guys were going out partying and I was staying back
because I wanted to wake up early in training. And
you know, they'd be like, oh, you're not making it
to the NFL, like just come out, and I'm like, no, No,
I got I got bigger aspirations, I got dreams, I
got to like kind of take care of So there
was definitely those kind of moments. But to say I
got picked on, I wouldn't say that. And then once
(06:38):
I got to the UFL. Once I got to the UFL,
everyone was kind of in the same boat. We were
all there with a purpose to try to get exposure
to get back into the NFL. So there was absolutely, know,
you know, nay saying or anything like that. Everyone kind
of had a story. I mean, there was kind of
NFL cast offs that we're trying to regain their reputations
(06:58):
and nobody, nobody was higher or lower than anyone in
that in that organization. That's something that you know, always
kind of stuck with me because everyone was humbled. Everybody
was humbled to be there. Although it was a great
opportunity and we were getting compensated and all that stuff, like,
everyone had a humbling journey to get on that roster.
(07:19):
And uh so it was a it was a great
learning experience, um experience, and that as a I don't
know what twenty one, twenty two year old kid, probably
a portrait of words. Paul I should have said, busted
his balls maybe then yeah, thing like that. Yeah, I
definitely definitely got my balls bust. Just what was the
first impression here? Um, you know you you get in here,
(07:43):
what it was probably what twenty twelve? Yes, Um, and
you know you're sort of your your first interactions with
Bill Belichick, Tom Brady. I mean obviously it's an organization
that had done a lot of winning and here you
are trying to find your way as an NFL player,
let alone own, you know, make it into a role.
What was it first like for you? Your first impressions? Yeah,
(08:05):
so it was it was everything I was looking for
in a football team. That the the respect, the accountability, um,
you know, the kind of I could you could say strictness,
but it's it's more than that. It's kind of just
like that, that level respect that you have for your teammates,
your coaches, um, the game itself and your approach to
(08:28):
that game. Um. That that is what I what stood
out to me, Um, because coming through the UFL and
and then my first year and a half with Cincinnati
on their practice squad, it wasn't it wasn't like that,
but I always cherished the type of organizations where you know,
the head coach was like a guy that was almost
(08:49):
like a father type figure, and I never wanted to
like let them down. So I had that at Brown, UH,
coach Justice was was a like a very like brute
just like you did not want to let him down.
He didn't want to disappoint him. And so that's what
I always loved about playing with it for him. And
then with Bill it's the same kind of thing, the
respect that he had being Bill Belichick and all that.
(09:11):
I never wanted to let him down, you know. I
wanted to just do everything to try to be the
best player I could be for him, for my teammates,
for my other coaches, the whole organization. So that level
of respect just really stood out to me. I mean,
and then just the humility of the guys and the
lack of ego, you know, coming in and seeing, holy shit,
(09:33):
this is Bill Belichick. I'm talking to her. This is
Tom Brady that you know, the greatest At that point,
he was already on his way to becoming the greatest
quarterback of all time and now he is. And it's
just like wow, Like these guys are are you know,
humble enough and human enough to like just kind of
sit down and talk to me and you know, say
what's up in the in the cafeteria and just sit
(09:56):
down and like have a regular conversation. That level of
of just humility around across the across the organization really
stood out. Bill often says, or the coaches and players say, James,
that you know, for new people, draft picks, undrafted free agents,
people like that, the best route to make the team
(10:16):
and to make an impact is on special teams. And
would you agree with that in is there a moment
where you can remember, you know, on teams that you
know you were able to maybe stack some things together
to get them to you know, notice you and say, hey,
this is somebody that we should that we think we
should consider keeping to work with. Sure. Yeah, so that's
(10:38):
exactly That's exactly how how it came for me. I
mean my first year on twenty twelve, I was on
a practice squad. They brought me up for four games.
I played in one game Sunday night against the against
San Francisco forty nine ers, and all I did with
special teams, I didn't play one offensive snap. We lost
that game. It was raining. I remember the night. Yeah yeah, yeah,
(11:03):
interesting game. For the first game, it felt I think
we fell behind like thirty one to three or something
like that. Came back and then we ended up losing. Yeah,
we came back and we were kind of mounting to
come back a little bit, and late in the fourth
quarter they were punting and Wes Welker was our part
return at the time, caught it like the ten, took
it back for like maybe fifteen or so yards, and
(11:25):
I got called for holding against Navarro Bowman. And I
remember feeling like this big coming off the sideline, like
not trying to make eye contact with Scott O'Brien or
special teams coordinated at time and Bill and all that,
just like trying to shrink down. But you know, like
I learned a lot from that experience. And then the
following year, so twenty thirteen, go through training camp, I'm
(11:47):
kind of solidifying myself on the offense. But the first
play of the entire season, my entire like season as
a real NFL starter, our opening kickoff. We're in Buffalo
and we ran this little thing. It's kind of back
when we had the wedge and I was one of
like the off men off the wedge and I and
(12:07):
I kind of trapped behind the wedge guys and hit
the L two and absolutely just demolished them. And that
that moment, I was like, that is like kind of
putting a stamp on who I am. Um, I like
to be physical, and I just I was like the
electricity I felt in my body when I made that
(12:28):
hit and then came off onto the sideline. I mean
I could have like lit up the entire stadium. It was.
It was unreal. So that that moment, and then that
was one of the first clips that Bill played that
following Monday, and I was like, yeah, I think I
think I, you know, showed everybody who I was and
what I could do. I was just going to ask you,
did you get an out of boy for that? Where
(12:49):
you you know, and and what's that like, you know,
on the positive end of it, because I'm sure it
happens on the other end everybody, But what's it like
in the other when you get that like, hey, this
is what we're trying to do here an awesome feeling? Yeah,
it was. It was a culmination of a lot of
a lot of experiences, both bad and good, on on
(13:09):
the on the journey to that point, you know, I
mean there was like some there was definitely some bright days,
but there was also some dark days, and so having
that type of moment where like you finally just kind
of like erupt on somebody and like you're you've made it.
I mean, it was. It was a wild experience and
(13:30):
um one that I'll always remember, man, And that's that
that type of that type of fight and desire for
something and then finally obtaining it like that continues to
drive me to this day. So, um, i'lbeit off the
football field, I still I still kind of associate everything
to you know, how I approached the game of football
(13:51):
and now I'm trying to do it in a different
um business. But uh yeah, it all kind of it
all kind of works the same. So now you're going
to the sideline and you make an icot with anybody
will look back at you, right, yeah, so different different.
So I remember, you know, and mostly because of Andy.
Andy Hart, who absolutely was a fullback in high school
in a college and played h and he absolutely loved
(14:13):
the old school fullback that was James Devlin. So I
remember a thirty one yard catch in the thirteen season,
you know, Yeah, I mean most of your work was
down around the goal line. If you ever got the
ball in your hands. It was you know, one yard
touchdown runs and things like that. But do you remember
that thirty one yard I think it was in that season,
that thirteen season. Yeah, it was twenty thirteen. Yes, when
(14:33):
they when they realized I wasn't I wasn't any fast
at all, so um, but yeah, that ran with a
little wheel route up the right sideline on Barkibious Mingo
who later became my shirt met um and went up
for it with two hands but actually only caught it
with one, brought it down and then uh forget his
first name, his last name is a Ward, but he
(14:54):
was the safety tackle me. Bounced my head off the
ground slightly, slightly concus still the play, but then came
back to play and my first play was was a
wham on their d tackle. So you know, I was
all right. You know, Paul mentions, you know, Andy and fullback.
But it is a it's kind of a small fraternity
these days. Yeah, James, one that I'm sure that you're
(15:17):
proud of being a part of. But you know, when
you look around the league, I don't know if you
watch how much you watch or anything like that, are
you surprised? You know? I guess that the amount the
amount or the lack of the amount of fullbacks that
are in the National Football League today. Yeah, so that's
always kind of been the moniker, right, is like the
fullback is kind of getting phased out and it's becoming
(15:39):
like a dinosaur. I've heard used a lot um. But
it's funny because I feel like, you know, you see
successful teams and especially this time of year when when
defenses are a little beat up and the teams that
can run the ball, they really like start to establish
an identity this time of year, and most of those
teams have fullbacks, you know. I mean, look at the
(16:02):
forty nine is. Um my guy Juice check Is is
one of the best. I mean he's a Harvard guy,
so kind of got to like, you know, knock him
for that a little bit, but he's he's a great
fullback for them. A little bit different style, you know,
he like he gets he uses his body perfectly in
their scheme. Um, you know, not much or not so
(16:23):
much of like a downhill guy, but like there's there's
fullbacks like making a difference. I mean Jacob Johnson in
uh in Las Vegas, I mean the guy, the guy
has having a great year Jacobs is having a great
year behind him. Um, So there's definitely examples of the
fullback position still being utilized in a in a very
good way. And so I'll always kind of like, you know,
(16:45):
keep an eye out for those guys, um and root
for him, because I think a fullback is is very useful.
It's getting more useful as it's getting less used, I
think because defenses aren't as aware of how to fit
two back runs as much anymore. Um And see, I
(17:06):
get I get real, I get real like advanced in
my in my thought process sometimes. But I feel like
as the NFL kind of continues to go down this
route where maybe fullbacks aren't being used, I think it
starts to change the landscape of how defense is being played,
and it might end up becoming more susceptible to actually
(17:28):
run these two back runs in like the old school style,
you know, thirty five runs a game. Um, so you
could see like a resurgence coming back, you know. I
think I think what Tennessee has been doing with Henry
Is is kind of a little example of that. And uh,
and you're seeing examples you know, across the league sometimes. Yeah,
and just as a real quick aside John Hannah. You
(17:50):
know how Hall of Fame offensive guard and you know,
probably second or third greatest player in this team's history. Yeah,
said exactly what you've said. You know, it's probably going
back ten years. But he talked about sort of the
influx of the spread passing games and the smaller linebackers
and the speed emphasis on defense. He said, it's all
(18:10):
going to come full circle. Teams, smart teams are gonna
come back. They're gonna load up with two tight ends, fullbacks,
and they're gonna pound away at these smaller defenses. And
you look at Baltimore and you know, Matt and I
talked about this before the podcast, that the kid Recard
is it's like a defensive tackle playing fullback. Yeah, he
(18:30):
plays both ways. He plays d tackle on fullback. There's
a great job at both too. And um, you're exactly right.
I sorry to cut you off, but I think I
think the game of football is like kind of a
microcosm of life. And I feel like life is a
little bit cyclic. Things kind of happen and then everybody
reacts to that, and then you realize that, all right, well,
(18:50):
now like the next cycle is like the reaction to
that reaction, and so I think I think football is
the same. You know, I thinks, like you said, defense
is getting smaller, defense is not really being aware of
I mean, how many colleges run fullback right now? So
how many how many defenses are playing you know, uh,
you know, traditional two back runs in college, and then
(19:11):
once these guys get to the NFL, you know, they're
not seeing much as as well. So I think there
there could be a little chink in the armor here
down the road, James, as you would described that is that?
Is that a you think a good way maybe to
describe what happened with you guys at the end of
the eighteen season, because you lost to Miami, you lost
(19:32):
to Pittsburgh, and you know, I don't know if there
was a hey, what is it that we do well here,
Let's see if we can get back to that. And
you guys went to a power running game and that
power running game took you all the way to the
Super Bowl. Yeah, you know, I think there was there
was a little bit of that at each season. I
felt like late in the year, it's always nice to
(19:52):
be able to kind of hang your hat on the
run game because after you know, sixteen game season at
that time. Now seventeen, people are beat up. You know,
nobody wants to you know, stick their face in the fan,
you know, twenty thirty times a game. Um. And so
if you can kind of like establish yourself as a
as a quality running team the end at the end
(20:13):
of the season, it always kind of slows the game down.
It's like nice and methodical and um, and it really
opens up the playbook offensively. So we always kind of
tried to do that. But yeah, I'd say twenty eighteen
was the it was the greatest um example of that.
I mean, I think we we really like we were
challenged honestly when we lost to up to Pittsburgh. Um,
(20:37):
you know, our coach has challenged us to like, you know,
who are we going to be? And we had some
guys that were like road graders at the time, and
so we all just kind of like really got back
to work and uh like I said, like through that
ego out the window and just said like, look, we're
gonna we're gonna make the most of our opportunities. And yeah,
we had a we had great success running the ball.
(20:59):
That was that was some of my favorite football you know,
it's just having my daughter at the time and and that, Yeah,
that that playoff run in twenty eighteen was special. So
that Kansas City game in particular is one that Matt
and I and a lot of us around here talk about.
You know, we've both been here over twenty years, so
we've been lucky enough to be part of a lot
(21:19):
of wins. Yeah, and when we're asked which one stands out?
You know, obviously Super Bowls are more important than AFC
championship games, but I think you'd be hard pressed the
top just in terms of sheer skill on both sides
of the ball. That game in Kansas City. What do
you remember about it? And you know, just kind of
the atmosphere and everything that went into it. It It was
probably one of the landmark wins for you guys, no question. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
(21:45):
I mean, thinking back in my football career, even from
you know, the starting when I was seven years old
till I retired in twenty twenty, that stands out as
the as my favorite football game I've ever played in.
And it could honestly like it gives me chills, Like
I if I didn't know the sweatshirt on, I'd show
my my poems and goose bump. Right now, it almost
(22:07):
brings a tear to my eye, honestly, because it was
like it was just it was it was like the
perfect team against the world environment. First of all, Kansas
City is a great place to play football, and when
we were walked in there, like you could just feel
how much we like, no one wanted us to be there. Right,
(22:29):
so it was us, like the forty six guys on
the field, plus you know, all the help we have
on a sideline. So call it like seventy to eighty people.
It was like us against you know, all close to
ninety thousand. And this way we started the game like
running the ball. Well, I think we ran lead on
(22:49):
the first play. Sony broke it for like thirteen or
something like that, and then you know, and then it
was a goal line run bang, We score, a goal
line run bang, score, And it was everything was kind
of like, you know, just building and building and building,
and we knew that they were going to break at
some point defensively if we just kind of kept just
(23:10):
you know, kept the punches coming and uh and then finally, yeah,
it kind of did. And then they fought back and
that whole like that just like EBB and flow of
the game and then you know going into overtime and jeez,
like all the third downs that we converted. I mean
like it is like lighten me up right now just
(23:31):
thinking about it. And then the final play is one
of my favorites of all time. And you know standing
over Rex you know as he was in the end
zone is like one of my favorite football memories. Um, yeah,
it was. That was that was truly a special one.
And just the feeling of like brotherhood that we had,
like after we won that and like running off the
field and just the exuberance like among like the misery
(23:56):
of all the fans and the other team. It was
like just it was perfect. So I do have one
email question here from sure from young Andy Um who
always wanted to ask you if you felt bad that
Sony got all the credit for that that ground and
pound attack and it wasn't you getting into credit for it? No? No,
(24:16):
because that's my role, man, Like that's and that I
think every fullback would say that across the league. Who's
really ever played it is you don't really play the
fullback position for the limelight, you know, Like I was
very happy, just kind of in my role, um, you know,
quietly just going out there and doing my job, and
uh you know it it. Uh, I loved I you know,
(24:37):
I love Sony. Um you know I love that that
playoff run. I love all the guys that I played with,
man and and so I don't have any animosity choice
any of that, you know. Um, you talk about how
it felt when you're walking in everything like that. Did
the cold you know, did you do you remember how
cold it was that day? I was pretty cold. That
(24:58):
was a cold one. Yeah, But does yet are you
conditioned and trained to the point James where that's not
really a factor, especially as you get going and you
talked about right out of the shoot, you know, Fami
hit him with the run. You went right down the
field and scored, ran it in, went right down the
field again, I think, and could have scored. Didn't talk
to throw a pick on the second drive, right, But
(25:19):
tremendous a time of possession advantage that you guys had
as you're going through. Do you ever does a cold dissipate?
Do you not even realize what's going on because you're
in the heat of the moment as far as the
game is concerned. Yeah. I mean i'd say whereas about it,
we're about as conditioned to the cold as as anybody
in the NFL. The way that we prepare and the
(25:39):
way that we practice, you know, outside, no matter what
it is out there, we're we're out there in it.
And I was always kind of, you know, one of
those tough guys it wouldn't wear as sleeves of practice,
never wear to sleeve in a game. And I kind
of like reveled that a little bit. And you'd feel
the cold like one hundred percent, especially on the side.
(26:00):
But then we have like the heated benches and the
and the you know, the blowers over there, so like
there's ways around it. Once once you're out on the field. Honestly,
the worst part is like time outs, when you're just
kind of standing in the huddle huddle and like the
winds hitting the end, you know, you got nothing to
protect you. Um, but once that ball snap, man, like
there's you don't have you don't have time to think
(26:22):
about how cold it is. And so that's then like
I guess maybe the advantage becomes, you know, more apparent
when like you know that ball snapped and it's just
like you know, it's football. You know, we don't have
time to worry about if it's fifteen degrees versus seventy five.
So you mentioned the euphoria in the end zone and
one of the great moments of your career, and I
(26:44):
think we can all remember, you know, guys throwing their
helmets off, Andrew's lifting Brady, you know, everybody just you know,
the joy of um of winning that game. But at
what point in time do you need to flip the
switch and say this is you know, we've got one
more left, and it would be a shame for all
(27:04):
that we've accomplished. Going into Kansas City, nobody thought we
could do it. We went in to beat the Chiefs.
We got to now close a deal. Yeah, it was immediate.
I mean I remember, I remember everyone, almost everybody I hugged,
and I can remember vividly, like hugging Tom and the
first words I heard from his mouth we got one more.
(27:25):
And that's everyone was saying that. Everybody knew. I mean,
in the excitement of the moment, everybody also knew that, Like,
you know, we didn't fight all this or do all
this work throughout the season and fight to get to
this point, like we wanted to be here, but there's
also more to be had. So that was always something
that you know, I feel like we were always always
(27:48):
aware of. Is you know, the work wasn't done until
really the first or second weekend in February when we
talk about all these different things and they see how
fired up you still get about some of these blocks.
These you know, you're talking about lead and you know
they're having a wham. And was there a guy that
you went against that particularly stood out to you was
(28:09):
toughest to block. Yeah, I'd say, I know, I mean,
I'd tell everybody who asked this, Elanden Roberts in practice
was the toughest guy for me because I'd say, like
generally speaking, I'm I'm like a tallerish fullback, you know,
like sixty three, so I kind of lose a lot
of like natural leverage that like a six foot and
(28:33):
maybe under guy would have. But Elanden's like maybe five eleven,
you know, maybe six foot on the roster. But uh,
that dude also just had like I mean, he was
like in practice the first day of pads, everybody knew
we'd get to nine on seven and the first play
(28:53):
would be lead and it'd be me on me versus Elanden,
and it was just like a like a car accident
every time, you know, it was just wild. And so
that guy just with his natural leverage and his like
ability to just thump and have like little to no
regard for his body, he was always a tough guy
to block um Otherwise then it was like you know,
(29:15):
d tackles. I remember the first time I had a
wham on Vince Wilfork and I felt like I was
throwing my body into a brick wall. That dude did
not move at all. And then obviously, you know, first
play of the last Super Bowl there against the Rams
hitting and Dominican sue and like, you know, that was
a very similar feeling. So yeah, there was definitely some
(29:38):
some big boys I had to go up against, but
he landed. Man. It was just like every time I
had to like strap up extra tight because this dude
was was just coming and you know, I definitely wasn't
backing away either. So it was just just gnarly hits
every every year. And I don't know if it's the
same as a fullback, but those downhill linebackers run stopping linebackers,
(30:02):
they're not in great abundance. Nowadays, everybody wants the sideline
to sideline guy. You know, everybody wants a guy that's
got all the speed, can cover a back out of
the backfield, can maybe get drop into his zone and
cover a wide receiver. So Roberts, I think another guy
who's really formed a nice little career for himself at
a position that I don't know if it's extinct, but
you know, people are kind of going away from to
(30:23):
your point that you made earlier with all the spread
and everything like that. Yeah, I completely agree, man. I mean,
now it's all about versatility and being able to run
and play the run and play the pass all this stuff,
and I mean just wait, you know, I think we'll
see things come back around and then you know, linebackers
will be two fifty two fifty five, two sixty again,
(30:45):
and you know we're gonna have to start packing a
box up because, like you said, to two tight ends
and a fullback must go. Did you have you know teams,
you know, a particular rivalry that you know, you got
a little X juiced up for. What were the teams
that that had a little bit more motivation to play against? Yeah,
(31:06):
so early on, uh, I'd say the Broncos they were
always tough games. When when Peyton was there and playing
out in Buffalo, it felt like we always had to
play them out there, except for that one. I think
it may have been Monday night when they came out
and that was a real cold one. Um and uh
and we came back from like twenty eight down or
(31:27):
something at halftime. But anyways, uh, yeah, the Broncos were
always a good one. The Steelers were always a good one. Um.
The Colts were always always a good fight. Um. And
then obviously, you know, like our divisional rivals were were
always tough. You know, it didn't matter what they're or
what their uh, what their their standings were. Um, it
(31:49):
was just we knew each other so well. It was
like you know, fighting your brother, so it was it
was were always tough. The Jets, the Dolphins and the
uh oh in the bill, the bill is obviously, Yeah,
so those one's really stuff. When you're sitting there in
South Jersey on the shore, you're trying to start this business.
You've got this business plan in your mind. You're thinking about,
(32:13):
you know, five years down the road, maybe ten years
down the road. How often James do you sort of
catch yourself or is it brought to your attention or
anything like that that you're a three times super Bowl champion.
I mean, i'd say the super Bowl champion thing doesn't
come up, but where I thought you were going. And
what I do want to say here is is while
(32:35):
I'm on this journey right this entrepreneurial journey in my
life after football, I'm I'm big about like this whole
like growth mindset, trying to get better every single day
at what I'm doing, even though I I mean, shit,
I'm gonna I'm not gonna bullshit here. There's days where
I know I'm I'm like, I have no idea what
I'm doing. I'm just out here. I'm out here trying
(32:56):
to wait through the water. Um, but I'll tell you
it's like clockwork. Almost every single day I'm reminded of
something that the game of football taught me. And I'm
particularly reminded of something that Bill Belichick, you know, was
like one of his staples, and this like the wisdom
(33:18):
that I that I took in for my eight years
in New England. I mean it was like reading like
every masterclass book and everything about self help, like the
the guy just like exuberates this wisdom that like, while
I was playing, I was picking it up, but maybe
I wasn't like registered, maybe I wasn't mature enough at
(33:39):
the point to really like let it resonate with me.
But now it's like I realized so much. And there's
like these things that were about football, but then I
translate him to business and or things just about life.
And that's really been standing out to me and I
and I've told Bill that to his face, just like
how much like the lessons come up and in my
(34:02):
life beyond football, and how much I appreciate, you know,
the time and the wisdom that he that he gave.
Do you have much interaction with you know, your former teammates.
I mean, it's clear to listening to you how much
you miss it. I mean just yeah, the utiity of it.
But how much interaction do you still have with the guys? Yeah?
I mean obviously living down here in Jersey, there's not
(34:23):
a ton of other guys that are down here, um,
but I still keep in contact with with some guys
on the team still, you know, David Andrews, Slate, um,
Devin mccordy, guys like that. And then you know guys
that have moved on as well, you know, Julian, Danny Mendola, Um,
you know, Dwayne Allen, guys like that, and then some
guys from like the equipment staff that are will always
(34:45):
be just like dear friends. Like do I miss the game? Absolutely?
Do I miss those? There's like bonds that I that
I created in the locker room. Um. Yes. And the
and the sad part is, like, you know, for eight
years I was able to interact with these guys on
a daily basis like family, and now it's like I
(35:06):
got to set up you know, a call, and like
Dwayne lives in San Francisco and now there's like the
time difference and I'm calling him. He's with his son
and I'm like, you know, it's just like all these
you know, mix ups, But um, we still keep in contact.
And like, you know, one of my favorite conversations I've
had in the and the last month was with Jewels. Um.
(35:28):
You know, the guy's busy as hell, traveling from LA
to back to New York and all this stuff, but
he still found found time to you know, sit down
and kind of shoot the ship with me. And so
it was, you know, we just went went through a
lot in those eight years. You know, I was newly married,
had had three of my four kids at the time,
and you know, he had his daughter, and you know,
(35:48):
all these guys were going through all these life experiences
together and that just doesn't get thrown out the window
when we're done playing the game, you know. So, um, yeah,
there's definitely good relationships that I'll all we cherished from
from my time with the Pats. Do you find that constant, James,
when you're talking to these guys that it's the relationships,
you know, and those are the things that are never Yeah, sure,
(36:12):
you miss being in the locker room, the camaraderie and
everything like that, the plane rides, even maybe the bus rides,
the meetings of the hotel, but it's those relationships. Is
that a constant or a theme when you're talking to
other guys that are no longer playing. Yeah, yeah, I
think that's one hundred percent correct, you know obviously, like
the pageantry around the game and how how awesome it
(36:33):
is to be able to play football as a profession. Like, yes,
that you know, I missed that too. I missed the
craft if you want to call it that. But the
thing that will always just stay with you. Is like
you said, the relationships that you build and the experiences
you go through, the highs and lows of the season,
the highs and lows of you know, everyday life outside
(36:53):
of the facility and being able to just kind of
wade through those waters with these same guys, and uh,
you know, that's that's special. You know. I think you
find that across any any like corporation in America. UM
as you start to establish relationships with people that you
go through these experiences with and nothing's different in the
(37:16):
inside of football locker room, but it may be heightened
a bit because you're just in there all day going
through all this stuff and um and so yeah, I
you know, I say it all the time. I'm not
I'm not ashamed to say I truly love every every
every guy that I played with, and every coach that
coached me. And I'm just so thankful for the time
(37:39):
that you know, I was able to be, you know,
part of their lives. So yeah, I definitely miss it.
You can let us know which opponents maybe you didn't like.
That's okay. I respected everybody. You know, everybody's playing hard
out there. It's a brotherhood. Yeah, no, I mean I
always and like I said, like you said, I mean
(38:00):
I definitely had respect for my opponents. You know, they
all have their stories and they're all human beings at
the end of the day. So um, now, I never
had anybody that I hated or hated to play. It was.
It was always just you know, we're out here playing
a game. And even if you did, I think the
events of the recent last week or so, and if
he didn't know about it beforehand, you can see that
(38:22):
it is truly a brotherhood and everybody respects what you
guys are do, what it is that you have to do,
and it's pretty special to see. It's pretty special to see.
And like you said, like one of your first questions
about you know what I what I realized when I
first got to the Patriots or what stood out to me, Um,
(38:42):
it was just like the human element behind it, because
it was, you know, getting to the NFL. You always
look at you're watching on Sundays as a little kid,
and these guys seem bigger than life. And you know,
you hear about Tom Brady from the time I was
ten years old about how good he is and you know,
winning all these Super Bowls and now all of a sudden,
I'm in the same room as him as a as
a peer, and I realized, like, this guy's just another
(39:05):
human being. And so I think, like you said, this
past week really like humanizes the game of football a
little bit, realizes like under these helmets and under these
pads and jerseys and you know, out on the field
is just twenty two human beings that all have different stories,
and they all have different experiences and things that they
(39:25):
can bring to the game and to the world. And um, yeah,
when you peel all the all the layers of the
onion back, like we're all just human beings at the
end of the day. And that's that's the beautiful part
of the game of football, you know, it's it's real
life human drama on the field and off the field.
So fantastic stuff. James, Really appreciate your time, best wishes
(39:46):
for the smoothie and the ash Bowl business, and we
can help promote that and get into a Patriot place.
We're happy to do so, all right, Well, yeah, looking
forward to it, man. Yeah, Jersey Shore, let me know
and I'll nata say it right first. Yeah, Well, no
surprise that I butchered that. James, thanks a lot, man,
(40:06):
appreciate your time. Have a great one, all right, Thank you, guys,
have a good one. Thank you for downloading this podcast.
Subscribe on Apple, google Play, and everywhere else you listen.
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dot com for more news and more podcasts.
It's time now for another episode of Patch from the
Past podcast Matt Smith along with Paul Perlo, and we're
pleased to be joined by number forty six on your scorecard,
but number one in our hearts, at least for today, right. Well,
and that's James Devil, who joins us all the way
from the Jersey Shore. James, how nice to see you, well, guys,
thanks for having me on. Yeah, I appreciate it. Um.
(00:28):
Have you getting some of that Jim tan laundry thing
going a little bit? Although there's not much tanning going
on right now. No, it's so great here I can't
even believe it. I don't remember the last time we
saw the sun. It's been fogg. It's been nothing but
fogg here for like a week. Um, but it's all
good man. Yeah, And I do think, Paul, I don't
know if you ever catch us, but I do think
(00:50):
periodically we still see a little Sullivan entire commercial every
once in a blue moon with James on it. James
is thrilled to hear that. M Please tell I've got
a good set of all wheel tires or something at
least out of that. Oh yeah, yeah, mister Sullivan takes
care of me. Man, He's been a great friend. Um.
You know, we kind of established a relationship while I
(01:10):
was up there playing and um, and honestly, I look
up to him now was like like me and my
little entrepreneurial role. Um. You know, he's got a lot
of knowledge and experience in this world. So um, we're
trying to just you know, keep it fun and keep
it light. And he's been a great partner thus far.
So you mentioned entrepreneurial James, and we ask everybody about this.
(01:33):
Some people are more visible, guys who were in broadcasting
things like that, Like things like that. What it's James
deviling up to these days? Sure? Yeah, so uh so
upon retirement, I've retired right into that you know, initial
onset of COVID, so things kind of slowed down a
little bit. But honestly, it was nice for me to
kind of like just ease my way into like you know,
(01:54):
being a real adult and stop playing a child's game, um, professionally.
So I did a lot of soul searching, a lot
of like what I wanted to do. My biggest priority
these days is my family. Got four kids now and
my wife obviously, so I'm huge, huge family man try
to keep that to you know, the highest level of importance.
(02:17):
But I wanted to. I knew I wanted to kind
of create my own legacy beyond football. I wanted to
control my my time and destinies here. So I decided
to go into this entrepreneurial role. I actually took a
entrepreneurial course through the NFLPA Trust and that helped kind
(02:37):
of just connect me with with you know, people that
were local and across the country that could kind of
guide me and what I wanted to do. And ended
up buying a business here on the Jersey Shore called Soulberry.
It's a little, uh coffee, smoothie, sae bowl type place
two blocks off the beach. And so now I'm trying
to expand that that business for more towns on the
(03:02):
Jersey Shore and then hopefully beyond that. Um my goal
here and like maybe the next five to ten years
is to have one in Patriot Place. So hopefully we
can get a soul Berry up there. Maybe we'll have
to do a sequel to the Passion Pass with jo
We'll keep you in the circulation here for Robert and Jonathan,
so we'll get that done. Obviously, James your story is
(03:23):
one that's been told a lot, you know, not the
most common path to the NFL. But I'm just curious, Uh,
you know, in your time at Brown and your positional moves,
you know, when did you think I can do this?
I can I could be an NFL player. Was there
a time before you actually made it that you really
thought that you could do this? Yes? So I always
(03:46):
kind of had the self belief, right, Um, I think
that you kind of need that when you're just embarking
on this kind of quest. And like you said, I
was definitely not like a highly touted prospect coming on
to college. I had to kind of scrap happened claw
to find an agent just to who represent me, let alone,
you know, get in front of some NFL teams, and really,
(04:09):
I would say I went so after college, I went
and had a try out with the Cleveland Browns. Didn't
even make it to the third day. They had me
at three four outside linebacker. I was, I was a mess.
And then after that played an arena football. Then I
played in the UFL and that's when I made the
switch to fullback. And I'd say that's when I really
felt like, hey, I can do something. Here because I
(04:30):
was playing. I was one of two, like you know,
true rookies on the team, and all the other guys,
i'd say ninety five percent of the roster were x
NFL guys. So it kind of gave me like the
first like barometer to measure myself against. And so when
I earned it, started position and I was like making
(04:51):
some some nice plays out there. That's when I really
felt like, hey, I can do this. I just need
the right opportunity. And then you know, practice squads stuff
like that. Three years later, I was, you know, starting
for the Pats, so at all kind of that's when
it really like that was my jump off point. I
don't know that Paul and I can sit here. I
know we can't sit here. And what's it like to
(05:12):
be in an IVY League school? But did you you know,
was this dream something that you were dreaming of what
you were Brown? Did you get made fun of? Did
you say, oh, please, come on, you're gonna end up
doing you know, be a lawyer, You'll be a doctor.
You know, that's why you come to Brown. And conversely,
did you also hear it when you're in the UFL?
You know, hey, ivy you know did you get stuck
(05:32):
with a nickname or was there any kind of stigmatism
to IVY League guys don't make it to the NFL,
what you know, maybe in their training staff or something
like that. Yeah, so I'd say, first and foremost being
at Brown, I mean there was there was definitely doubters because,
like you said, they're not every day you know, guys
come out of the football powerhouse at is Brown University,
(05:55):
let in the entire IVY League. But you know, I
was experienced. I had a year on the team with
Zach Diasi and he was drafted to the Giants as
a linebacker, then ended up having a thirteen year career
as a long snapper. But I knew it was possible,
and that's kind of all I needed to hear. The rest.
It was kind of up to me, So I yeah,
(06:15):
there was doubters. Yeah, there was times when you know,
guys were going out partying and I was staying back
because I wanted to wake up early in training. And
you know, they'd be like, oh, you're not making it
to the NFL, like just come out, and I'm like, no, No,
I got I got bigger aspirations, I got dreams, I
got to like kind of take care of So there
was definitely those kind of moments. But to say I
got picked on, I wouldn't say that. And then once
(06:38):
I got to the UFL. Once I got to the UFL,
everyone was kind of in the same boat. We were
all there with a purpose to try to get exposure
to get back into the NFL. So there was absolutely, know,
you know, nay saying or anything like that. Everyone kind
of had a story. I mean, there was kind of
NFL cast offs that we're trying to regain their reputations
(06:58):
and nobody, nobody was higher or lower than anyone in
that in that organization. That's something that you know, always
kind of stuck with me because everyone was humbled. Everybody
was humbled to be there. Although it was a great
opportunity and we were getting compensated and all that stuff, like,
everyone had a humbling journey to get on that roster.
(07:19):
And uh so it was a it was a great
learning experience, um experience, and that as a I don't
know what twenty one, twenty two year old kid, probably
a portrait of words. Paul I should have said, busted
his balls maybe then yeah, thing like that. Yeah, I
definitely definitely got my balls bust. Just what was the
first impression here? Um, you know you you get in here,
(07:43):
what it was probably what twenty twelve? Yes, Um, and
you know you're sort of your your first interactions with
Bill Belichick, Tom Brady. I mean obviously it's an organization
that had done a lot of winning and here you
are trying to find your way as an NFL player,
let alone own, you know, make it into a role.
What was it first like for you? Your first impressions? Yeah,
(08:05):
so it was it was everything I was looking for
in a football team. That the the respect, the accountability, um,
you know, the kind of I could you could say strictness,
but it's it's more than that. It's kind of just
like that, that level respect that you have for your teammates,
your coaches, um, the game itself and your approach to
(08:28):
that game. Um. That that is what I what stood
out to me, Um, because coming through the UFL and
and then my first year and a half with Cincinnati
on their practice squad, it wasn't it wasn't like that,
but I always cherished the type of organizations where you know,
the head coach was like a guy that was almost
(08:49):
like a father type figure, and I never wanted to
like let them down. So I had that at Brown, UH,
coach Justice was was a like a very like brute
just like you did not want to let him down.
He didn't want to disappoint him. And so that's what
I always loved about playing with it for him. And
then with Bill it's the same kind of thing, the
respect that he had being Bill Belichick and all that.
(09:11):
I never wanted to let him down, you know. I
wanted to just do everything to try to be the
best player I could be for him, for my teammates,
for my other coaches, the whole organization. So that level
of respect just really stood out to me. I mean,
and then just the humility of the guys and the
lack of ego, you know, coming in and seeing, holy shit,
(09:33):
this is Bill Belichick. I'm talking to her. This is
Tom Brady that you know, the greatest At that point,
he was already on his way to becoming the greatest
quarterback of all time and now he is. And it's
just like wow, Like these guys are are you know,
humble enough and human enough to like just kind of
sit down and talk to me and you know, say
what's up in the in the cafeteria and just sit
(09:56):
down and like have a regular conversation. That level of
of just humility around across the across the organization really
stood out. Bill often says, or the coaches and players say, James,
that you know, for new people, draft picks, undrafted free agents,
people like that, the best route to make the team
(10:16):
and to make an impact is on special teams. And
would you agree with that in is there a moment
where you can remember, you know, on teams that you
know you were able to maybe stack some things together
to get them to you know, notice you and say, hey,
this is somebody that we should that we think we
should consider keeping to work with. Sure. Yeah, so that's
(10:38):
exactly That's exactly how how it came for me. I
mean my first year on twenty twelve, I was on
a practice squad. They brought me up for four games.
I played in one game Sunday night against the against
San Francisco forty nine ers, and all I did with
special teams, I didn't play one offensive snap. We lost
that game. It was raining. I remember the night. Yeah yeah, yeah,
(11:03):
interesting game. For the first game, it felt I think
we fell behind like thirty one to three or something
like that. Came back and then we ended up losing. Yeah,
we came back and we were kind of mounting to
come back a little bit, and late in the fourth
quarter they were punting and Wes Welker was our part
return at the time, caught it like the ten, took
it back for like maybe fifteen or so yards, and
(11:25):
I got called for holding against Navarro Bowman. And I
remember feeling like this big coming off the sideline, like
not trying to make eye contact with Scott O'Brien or
special teams coordinated at time and Bill and all that,
just like trying to shrink down. But you know, like
I learned a lot from that experience. And then the
following year, so twenty thirteen, go through training camp, I'm
(11:47):
kind of solidifying myself on the offense. But the first
play of the entire season, my entire like season as
a real NFL starter, our opening kickoff. We're in Buffalo
and we ran this little thing. It's kind of back
when we had the wedge and I was one of
like the off men off the wedge and I and
(12:07):
I kind of trapped behind the wedge guys and hit
the L two and absolutely just demolished them. And that
that moment, I was like, that is like kind of
putting a stamp on who I am. Um, I like
to be physical, and I just I was like the
electricity I felt in my body when I made that
(12:28):
hit and then came off onto the sideline. I mean
I could have like lit up the entire stadium. It was.
It was unreal. So that that moment, and then that
was one of the first clips that Bill played that
following Monday, and I was like, yeah, I think I
think I, you know, showed everybody who I was and
what I could do. I was just going to ask you,
did you get an out of boy for that? Where
(12:49):
you you know, and and what's that like, you know,
on the positive end of it, because I'm sure it
happens on the other end everybody, But what's it like
in the other when you get that like, hey, this
is what we're trying to do here an awesome feeling? Yeah,
it was. It was a culmination of a lot of
a lot of experiences, both bad and good, on on
(13:09):
the on the journey to that point, you know, I
mean there was like some there was definitely some bright days,
but there was also some dark days, and so having
that type of moment where like you finally just kind
of like erupt on somebody and like you're you've made it.
I mean, it was. It was a wild experience and
(13:30):
um one that I'll always remember, man, And that's that
that type of that type of fight and desire for
something and then finally obtaining it like that continues to
drive me to this day. So, um, i'lbeit off the
football field, I still I still kind of associate everything
to you know, how I approached the game of football
(13:51):
and now I'm trying to do it in a different
um business. But uh yeah, it all kind of it
all kind of works the same. So now you're going
to the sideline and you make an icot with anybody
will look back at you, right, yeah, so different different.
So I remember, you know, and mostly because of Andy.
Andy Hart, who absolutely was a fullback in high school
in a college and played h and he absolutely loved
(14:13):
the old school fullback that was James Devlin. So I
remember a thirty one yard catch in the thirteen season,
you know, Yeah, I mean most of your work was
down around the goal line. If you ever got the
ball in your hands. It was you know, one yard
touchdown runs and things like that. But do you remember
that thirty one yard I think it was in that season,
that thirteen season. Yeah, it was twenty thirteen. Yes, when
(14:33):
they when they realized I wasn't I wasn't any fast
at all, so um, but yeah, that ran with a
little wheel route up the right sideline on Barkibious Mingo
who later became my shirt met um and went up
for it with two hands but actually only caught it
with one, brought it down and then uh forget his
first name, his last name is a Ward, but he
(14:54):
was the safety tackle me. Bounced my head off the
ground slightly, slightly concus still the play, but then came
back to play and my first play was was a
wham on their d tackle. So you know, I was
all right. You know, Paul mentions, you know, Andy and fullback.
But it is a it's kind of a small fraternity
these days. Yeah, James, one that I'm sure that you're
(15:17):
proud of being a part of. But you know, when
you look around the league, I don't know if you
watch how much you watch or anything like that, are
you surprised? You know? I guess that the amount the
amount or the lack of the amount of fullbacks that
are in the National Football League today. Yeah, so that's
always kind of been the moniker, right, is like the
fullback is kind of getting phased out and it's becoming
(15:39):
like a dinosaur. I've heard used a lot um. But
it's funny because I feel like, you know, you see
successful teams and especially this time of year when when
defenses are a little beat up and the teams that
can run the ball, they really like start to establish
an identity this time of year, and most of those
teams have fullbacks, you know. I mean, look at the
(16:02):
forty nine is. Um my guy Juice check Is is
one of the best. I mean he's a Harvard guy,
so kind of got to like, you know, knock him
for that a little bit, but he's he's a great
fullback for them. A little bit different style, you know,
he like he gets he uses his body perfectly in
their scheme. Um, you know, not much or not so
(16:23):
much of like a downhill guy, but like there's there's
fullbacks like making a difference. I mean Jacob Johnson in
uh in Las Vegas, I mean the guy, the guy
has having a great year Jacobs is having a great
year behind him. Um, So there's definitely examples of the
fullback position still being utilized in a in a very
good way. And so I'll always kind of like, you know,
(16:45):
keep an eye out for those guys, um and root
for him, because I think a fullback is is very useful.
It's getting more useful as it's getting less used, I
think because defenses aren't as aware of how to fit
two back runs as much anymore. Um And see, I
(17:06):
get I get real, I get real like advanced in
my in my thought process sometimes. But I feel like
as the NFL kind of continues to go down this
route where maybe fullbacks aren't being used, I think it
starts to change the landscape of how defense is being played,
and it might end up becoming more susceptible to actually
(17:28):
run these two back runs in like the old school style,
you know, thirty five runs a game. Um, so you
could see like a resurgence coming back, you know. I
think I think what Tennessee has been doing with Henry
Is is kind of a little example of that. And uh,
and you're seeing examples you know, across the league sometimes. Yeah,
and just as a real quick aside John Hannah. You
(17:50):
know how Hall of Fame offensive guard and you know,
probably second or third greatest player in this team's history. Yeah,
said exactly what you've said. You know, it's probably going
back ten years. But he talked about sort of the
influx of the spread passing games and the smaller linebackers
and the speed emphasis on defense. He said, it's all
(18:10):
going to come full circle. Teams, smart teams are gonna
come back. They're gonna load up with two tight ends, fullbacks,
and they're gonna pound away at these smaller defenses. And
you look at Baltimore and you know, Matt and I
talked about this before the podcast, that the kid Recard
is it's like a defensive tackle playing fullback. Yeah, he
(18:30):
plays both ways. He plays d tackle on fullback. There's
a great job at both too. And um, you're exactly right.
I sorry to cut you off, but I think I
think the game of football is like kind of a
microcosm of life. And I feel like life is a
little bit cyclic. Things kind of happen and then everybody
reacts to that, and then you realize that, all right, well,
(18:50):
now like the next cycle is like the reaction to
that reaction, and so I think I think football is
the same. You know, I thinks, like you said, defense
is getting smaller, defense is not really being aware of
I mean, how many colleges run fullback right now? So
how many how many defenses are playing you know, uh,
you know, traditional two back runs in college, and then
(19:11):
once these guys get to the NFL, you know, they're
not seeing much as as well. So I think there
there could be a little chink in the armor here
down the road, James, as you would described that is that?
Is that a you think a good way maybe to
describe what happened with you guys at the end of
the eighteen season, because you lost to Miami, you lost
(19:32):
to Pittsburgh, and you know, I don't know if there
was a hey, what is it that we do well here,
Let's see if we can get back to that. And
you guys went to a power running game and that
power running game took you all the way to the
Super Bowl. Yeah, you know, I think there was there
was a little bit of that at each season. I
felt like late in the year, it's always nice to
(19:52):
be able to kind of hang your hat on the
run game because after you know, sixteen game season at
that time. Now seventeen, people are beat up. You know,
nobody wants to you know, stick their face in the fan,
you know, twenty thirty times a game. Um. And so
if you can kind of like establish yourself as a
as a quality running team the end at the end
(20:13):
of the season, it always kind of slows the game down.
It's like nice and methodical and um, and it really
opens up the playbook offensively. So we always kind of
tried to do that. But yeah, I'd say twenty eighteen
was the it was the greatest um example of that.
I mean, I think we we really like we were
challenged honestly when we lost to up to Pittsburgh. Um,
(20:37):
you know, our coach has challenged us to like, you know,
who are we going to be? And we had some
guys that were like road graders at the time, and
so we all just kind of like really got back
to work and uh like I said, like through that
ego out the window and just said like, look, we're
gonna we're gonna make the most of our opportunities. And yeah,
we had a we had great success running the ball.
(20:59):
That was that was some of my favorite football you know,
it's just having my daughter at the time and and that, Yeah,
that that playoff run in twenty eighteen was special. So
that Kansas City game in particular is one that Matt
and I and a lot of us around here talk about.
You know, we've both been here over twenty years, so
we've been lucky enough to be part of a lot
(21:19):
of wins. Yeah, and when we're asked which one stands out?
You know, obviously Super Bowls are more important than AFC
championship games, but I think you'd be hard pressed the
top just in terms of sheer skill on both sides
of the ball. That game in Kansas City. What do
you remember about it? And you know, just kind of
the atmosphere and everything that went into it. It It was
probably one of the landmark wins for you guys, no question. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
(21:45):
I mean, thinking back in my football career, even from
you know, the starting when I was seven years old
till I retired in twenty twenty, that stands out as
the as my favorite football game I've ever played in.
And it could honestly like it gives me chills, Like
I if I didn't know the sweatshirt on, I'd show
my my poems and goose bump. Right now, it almost
(22:07):
brings a tear to my eye, honestly, because it was
like it was just it was it was like the
perfect team against the world environment. First of all, Kansas
City is a great place to play football, and when
we were walked in there, like you could just feel
how much we like, no one wanted us to be there. Right,
(22:29):
so it was us, like the forty six guys on
the field, plus you know, all the help we have
on a sideline. So call it like seventy to eighty people.
It was like us against you know, all close to
ninety thousand. And this way we started the game like
running the ball. Well, I think we ran lead on
(22:49):
the first play. Sony broke it for like thirteen or
something like that, and then you know, and then it
was a goal line run bang, We score, a goal
line run bang, score, And it was everything was kind
of like, you know, just building and building and building,
and we knew that they were going to break at
some point defensively if we just kind of kept just
(23:10):
you know, kept the punches coming and uh and then finally, yeah,
it kind of did. And then they fought back and
that whole like that just like EBB and flow of
the game and then you know going into overtime and jeez,
like all the third downs that we converted. I mean
like it is like lighten me up right now just
(23:31):
thinking about it. And then the final play is one
of my favorites of all time. And you know standing
over Rex you know as he was in the end
zone is like one of my favorite football memories. Um, yeah,
it was. That was that was truly a special one.
And just the feeling of like brotherhood that we had,
like after we won that and like running off the
field and just the exuberance like among like the misery
(23:56):
of all the fans and the other team. It was
like just it was perfect. So I do have one
email question here from sure from young Andy Um who
always wanted to ask you if you felt bad that
Sony got all the credit for that that ground and
pound attack and it wasn't you getting into credit for it? No? No,
(24:16):
because that's my role, man, Like that's and that I
think every fullback would say that across the league. Who's
really ever played it is you don't really play the
fullback position for the limelight, you know, Like I was
very happy, just kind of in my role, um, you know,
quietly just going out there and doing my job, and
uh you know it it. Uh, I loved I you know,
(24:37):
I love Sony. Um you know I love that that
playoff run. I love all the guys that I played with,
man and and so I don't have any animosity choice
any of that, you know. Um, you talk about how
it felt when you're walking in everything like that. Did
the cold you know, did you do you remember how
cold it was that day? I was pretty cold. That
(24:58):
was a cold one. Yeah, But does yet are you
conditioned and trained to the point James where that's not
really a factor, especially as you get going and you
talked about right out of the shoot, you know, Fami
hit him with the run. You went right down the
field and scored, ran it in, went right down the
field again, I think, and could have scored. Didn't talk
to throw a pick on the second drive, right, But
(25:19):
tremendous a time of possession advantage that you guys had
as you're going through. Do you ever does a cold dissipate?
Do you not even realize what's going on because you're
in the heat of the moment as far as the
game is concerned. Yeah. I mean i'd say whereas about it,
we're about as conditioned to the cold as as anybody
in the NFL. The way that we prepare and the
(25:39):
way that we practice, you know, outside, no matter what
it is out there, we're we're out there in it.
And I was always kind of, you know, one of
those tough guys it wouldn't wear as sleeves of practice,
never wear to sleeve in a game. And I kind
of like reveled that a little bit. And you'd feel
the cold like one hundred percent, especially on the side.
(26:00):
But then we have like the heated benches and the
and the you know, the blowers over there, so like
there's ways around it. Once once you're out on the field. Honestly,
the worst part is like time outs, when you're just
kind of standing in the huddle huddle and like the
winds hitting the end, you know, you got nothing to
protect you. Um, but once that ball snap, man, like
there's you don't have you don't have time to think
(26:22):
about how cold it is. And so that's then like
I guess maybe the advantage becomes, you know, more apparent
when like you know that ball snapped and it's just
like you know, it's football. You know, we don't have
time to worry about if it's fifteen degrees versus seventy five.
So you mentioned the euphoria in the end zone and
one of the great moments of your career, and I
(26:44):
think we can all remember, you know, guys throwing their
helmets off, Andrew's lifting Brady, you know, everybody just you know,
the joy of um of winning that game. But at
what point in time do you need to flip the
switch and say this is you know, we've got one
more left, and it would be a shame for all
(27:04):
that we've accomplished. Going into Kansas City, nobody thought we
could do it. We went in to beat the Chiefs.
We got to now close a deal. Yeah, it was immediate.
I mean I remember, I remember everyone, almost everybody I hugged,
and I can remember vividly, like hugging Tom and the
first words I heard from his mouth we got one more.
(27:25):
And that's everyone was saying that. Everybody knew. I mean,
in the excitement of the moment, everybody also knew that, Like,
you know, we didn't fight all this or do all
this work throughout the season and fight to get to
this point, like we wanted to be here, but there's
also more to be had. So that was always something
that you know, I feel like we were always always
(27:48):
aware of. Is you know, the work wasn't done until
really the first or second weekend in February when we
talk about all these different things and they see how
fired up you still get about some of these blocks.
These you know, you're talking about lead and you know
they're having a wham. And was there a guy that
you went against that particularly stood out to you was
(28:09):
toughest to block. Yeah, I'd say, I know, I mean,
I'd tell everybody who asked this, Elanden Roberts in practice
was the toughest guy for me because I'd say, like
generally speaking, I'm I'm like a tallerish fullback, you know,
like sixty three, so I kind of lose a lot
of like natural leverage that like a six foot and
(28:33):
maybe under guy would have. But Elanden's like maybe five eleven,
you know, maybe six foot on the roster. But uh,
that dude also just had like I mean, he was
like in practice the first day of pads, everybody knew
we'd get to nine on seven and the first play
(28:53):
would be lead and it'd be me on me versus Elanden,
and it was just like a like a car accident
every time, you know, it was just wild. And so
that guy just with his natural leverage and his like
ability to just thump and have like little to no
regard for his body, he was always a tough guy
to block um Otherwise then it was like you know,
(29:15):
d tackles. I remember the first time I had a
wham on Vince Wilfork and I felt like I was
throwing my body into a brick wall. That dude did
not move at all. And then obviously, you know, first
play of the last Super Bowl there against the Rams
hitting and Dominican sue and like, you know, that was
a very similar feeling. So yeah, there was definitely some
(29:38):
some big boys I had to go up against, but
he landed. Man. It was just like every time I
had to like strap up extra tight because this dude
was was just coming and you know, I definitely wasn't
backing away either. So it was just just gnarly hits
every every year. And I don't know if it's the
same as a fullback, but those downhill linebackers run stopping linebackers,
(30:02):
they're not in great abundance. Nowadays, everybody wants the sideline
to sideline guy. You know, everybody wants a guy that's
got all the speed, can cover a back out of
the backfield, can maybe get drop into his zone and
cover a wide receiver. So Roberts, I think another guy
who's really formed a nice little career for himself at
a position that I don't know if it's extinct, but
you know, people are kind of going away from to
(30:23):
your point that you made earlier with all the spread
and everything like that. Yeah, I completely agree, man. I mean,
now it's all about versatility and being able to run
and play the run and play the pass all this stuff,
and I mean just wait, you know, I think we'll
see things come back around and then you know, linebackers
will be two fifty two fifty five, two sixty again,
(30:45):
and you know we're gonna have to start packing a
box up because, like you said, to two tight ends
and a fullback must go. Did you have you know teams,
you know, a particular rivalry that you know, you got
a little X juiced up for. What were the teams
that that had a little bit more motivation to play against? Yeah,
(31:06):
so early on, uh, I'd say the Broncos they were
always tough games. When when Peyton was there and playing
out in Buffalo, it felt like we always had to
play them out there, except for that one. I think
it may have been Monday night when they came out
and that was a real cold one. Um and uh
and we came back from like twenty eight down or
(31:27):
something at halftime. But anyways, uh, yeah, the Broncos were
always a good one. The Steelers were always a good one. Um.
The Colts were always always a good fight. Um. And
then obviously, you know, like our divisional rivals were were
always tough. You know, it didn't matter what they're or
what their uh, what their their standings were. Um, it
(31:49):
was just we knew each other so well. It was
like you know, fighting your brother, so it was it
was were always tough. The Jets, the Dolphins and the
uh oh in the bill, the bill is obviously, Yeah,
so those one's really stuff. When you're sitting there in
South Jersey on the shore, you're trying to start this business.
You've got this business plan in your mind. You're thinking about,
(32:13):
you know, five years down the road, maybe ten years
down the road. How often James do you sort of
catch yourself or is it brought to your attention or
anything like that that you're a three times super Bowl champion.
I mean, i'd say the super Bowl champion thing doesn't
come up, but where I thought you were going. And
what I do want to say here is is while
(32:35):
I'm on this journey right this entrepreneurial journey in my
life after football, I'm I'm big about like this whole
like growth mindset, trying to get better every single day
at what I'm doing, even though I I mean, shit,
I'm gonna I'm not gonna bullshit here. There's days where
I know I'm I'm like, I have no idea what
I'm doing. I'm just out here. I'm out here trying
(32:56):
to wait through the water. Um, but I'll tell you
it's like clockwork. Almost every single day I'm reminded of
something that the game of football taught me. And I'm
particularly reminded of something that Bill Belichick, you know, was
like one of his staples, and this like the wisdom
(33:18):
that I that I took in for my eight years
in New England. I mean it was like reading like
every masterclass book and everything about self help, like the
the guy just like exuberates this wisdom that like, while
I was playing, I was picking it up, but maybe
I wasn't like registered, maybe I wasn't mature enough at
(33:39):
the point to really like let it resonate with me.
But now it's like I realized so much. And there's
like these things that were about football, but then I
translate him to business and or things just about life.
And that's really been standing out to me and I
and I've told Bill that to his face, just like
how much like the lessons come up and in my
(34:02):
life beyond football, and how much I appreciate, you know,
the time and the wisdom that he that he gave.
Do you have much interaction with you know, your former teammates.
I mean, it's clear to listening to you how much
you miss it. I mean just yeah, the utiity of it.
But how much interaction do you still have with the guys? Yeah?
I mean obviously living down here in Jersey, there's not
(34:23):
a ton of other guys that are down here, um,
but I still keep in contact with with some guys
on the team still, you know, David Andrews, Slate, um,
Devin mccordy, guys like that. And then you know guys
that have moved on as well, you know, Julian, Danny Mendola, Um,
you know, Dwayne Allen, guys like that, and then some
guys from like the equipment staff that are will always
(34:45):
be just like dear friends. Like do I miss the game? Absolutely?
Do I miss those? There's like bonds that I that
I created in the locker room. Um. Yes. And the
and the sad part is, like, you know, for eight
years I was able to interact with these guys on
a daily basis like family, and now it's like I
(35:06):
got to set up you know, a call, and like
Dwayne lives in San Francisco and now there's like the
time difference and I'm calling him. He's with his son
and I'm like, you know, it's just like all these
you know, mix ups, But um, we still keep in contact.
And like, you know, one of my favorite conversations I've
had in the and the last month was with Jewels. Um.
(35:28):
You know, the guy's busy as hell, traveling from LA
to back to New York and all this stuff, but
he still found found time to you know, sit down
and kind of shoot the ship with me. And so
it was, you know, we just went went through a
lot in those eight years. You know, I was newly married,
had had three of my four kids at the time,
and you know, he had his daughter, and you know,
(35:48):
all these guys were going through all these life experiences
together and that just doesn't get thrown out the window
when we're done playing the game, you know. So, um, yeah,
there's definitely good relationships that I'll all we cherished from
from my time with the Pats. Do you find that constant, James,
when you're talking to these guys that it's the relationships,
you know, and those are the things that are never Yeah, sure,
(36:12):
you miss being in the locker room, the camaraderie and
everything like that, the plane rides, even maybe the bus rides,
the meetings of the hotel, but it's those relationships. Is
that a constant or a theme when you're talking to
other guys that are no longer playing. Yeah, yeah, I
think that's one hundred percent correct, you know obviously, like
the pageantry around the game and how how awesome it
(36:33):
is to be able to play football as a profession. Like, yes,
that you know, I missed that too. I missed the
craft if you want to call it that. But the
thing that will always just stay with you. Is like
you said, the relationships that you build and the experiences
you go through, the highs and lows of the season,
the highs and lows of you know, everyday life outside
(36:53):
of the facility and being able to just kind of
wade through those waters with these same guys, and uh,
you know, that's that's special. You know. I think you
find that across any any like corporation in America. UM
as you start to establish relationships with people that you
go through these experiences with and nothing's different in the
(37:16):
inside of football locker room, but it may be heightened
a bit because you're just in there all day going
through all this stuff and um and so yeah, I
you know, I say it all the time. I'm not
I'm not ashamed to say I truly love every every
every guy that I played with, and every coach that
coached me. And I'm just so thankful for the time
(37:39):
that you know, I was able to be, you know,
part of their lives. So yeah, I definitely miss it.
You can let us know which opponents maybe you didn't like.
That's okay. I respected everybody. You know, everybody's playing hard
out there. It's a brotherhood. Yeah, no, I mean I
always and like I said, like you said, I mean
(38:00):
I definitely had respect for my opponents. You know, they
all have their stories and they're all human beings at
the end of the day. So um, now, I never
had anybody that I hated or hated to play. It was.
It was always just you know, we're out here playing
a game. And even if you did, I think the
events of the recent last week or so, and if
he didn't know about it beforehand, you can see that
(38:22):
it is truly a brotherhood and everybody respects what you
guys are do, what it is that you have to do,
and it's pretty special to see. It's pretty special to see.
And like you said, like one of your first questions
about you know what I what I realized when I
first got to the Patriots or what stood out to me, Um,
(38:42):
it was just like the human element behind it, because
it was, you know, getting to the NFL. You always
look at you're watching on Sundays as a little kid,
and these guys seem bigger than life. And you know,
you hear about Tom Brady from the time I was
ten years old about how good he is and you know,
winning all these Super Bowls and now all of a sudden,
I'm in the same room as him as a as
a peer, and I realized, like, this guy's just another
(39:05):
human being. And so I think, like you said, this
past week really like humanizes the game of football a
little bit, realizes like under these helmets and under these
pads and jerseys and you know, out on the field
is just twenty two human beings that all have different stories,
and they all have different experiences and things that they
(39:25):
can bring to the game and to the world. And um, yeah,
when you peel all the all the layers of the
onion back, like we're all just human beings at the
end of the day. And that's that's the beautiful part
of the game of football, you know, it's it's real
life human drama on the field and off the field.
So fantastic stuff. James, Really appreciate your time, best wishes
(39:46):
for the smoothie and the ash Bowl business, and we
can help promote that and get into a Patriot place.
We're happy to do so, all right, Well, yeah, looking
forward to it, man. Yeah, Jersey Shore, let me know
and I'll nata say it right first. Yeah, Well, no
surprise that I butchered that. James, thanks a lot, man,
(40:06):
appreciate your time. Have a great one, all right, Thank you, guys,
have a good one. Thank you for downloading this podcast.
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