May 5, 2025 • 42 mins
Matt and Dale compare the current constructed roster to last year's, discuss possible rule changes, and more in hour one.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
At least he's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt
Williamson on your twenty four to seven home of the
Black and Gold Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
And welcome to the Drive. I am Dale LOLLI he
is the Matt Williamson. And well it's a lovely Monday
here in Pittsburgh. Yeah, as we dodge the rain drops
once again, it's gone off and on rainy.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
It's kind of that what it is this time of year.
But at least there's no power outagism. But I think
we're past all that stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I think. Although they said someone hail today Mike crazy
with my house on Friday, though I didn't really believe
I had, Like, I mean, it was a couple of
inches thick up against the side of my house. Oh wow,
brick house and it must have just hit and just
all went straight down. I'm like, wow, that was pretty
that's bonkers, pretty impressive. Didn't push the house over, no, no,
(00:57):
But on that subject. According to the Washington Post, when
the owners meet in Minneapolis on May twentieth and twenty, first.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I forgot there's another owners meeting that they don't go to.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
This all the stuff gets pushed through anything and they
tabled and the table at the meetings to push and
all that kind of stuff there. The league is expected
to consider a revised proposal that would prohibit not just
the touch push, but any aiding of a runner. See,
I think that's the only way to do it. That's
the way to do it.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
If you're going to go in, you make the rule
across the board. And that used to be a rule.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
It used to be the case.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
And I never knew it went away until everyone's helping
each other, you know, like I never you know, a
two hundred pound running back is fighting for his life
at the two yard line, gang tackles, fight and blah
blah blah, and then a big guard comes in and
grabs them and throws them over the goal line. That
shouldn't be allowed. No, you know, tag team wrestling.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
You know, I'm waiting for some team to you know,
get a little person at running back and just toss
them over the line of scrimming.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Did you hear that one? You're not the first to
think of this. The dude that came up, what's his name,
He used to coach at Texas Tech. He was like
the first air raid guy publicly said we were looking
for little people that are athletic, and we were going
to throw. We were going to throw over the over
(02:20):
the top. I don't think that should be legal. Mike Leach, Yes,
I think it was Mike Leach. Yeah, and say it's
a well known coach that is a very innovative mind
who wanted to slightly crazy, slightly crazy, and we had
some good baseball stories before we had you know, went
on the air. Didn't wasn't there like a very small
human being that they would bring up in like the
(02:41):
forties center strike vaguely? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
He walked a lot of it. I don't know that
he did a bunch of times, but they did it
at least once.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
At least once. There's a picture of want to play.
But anyway, it should be illegal.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It should be illegal.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, I think the tush bush should be illegal.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Just yeah, just make all of it. You can't aid.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
You can sneak all you want. I just can't have
somebody behind me do it work for me, Reah, that's
my part of it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah. No, The quarterback sneak has been part of football
since football began. You know, the the Ice Bowl was
the Liver World, the Ice Bowl was one on a
quarterback sneak. Sure, sure, you know that's Tom Brady's great
at it. I mean, you don't even have to be
a great athlete to do it right. You have a
feel for where the opening and then dive into it.
But he pushing somebody through that should be illegal.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I'm glad it hasn't happened, but I'm also very shocked
that someone has not been injured.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Well, that was the quarterback. That was the reasoning when
we were at the meetings that some of the coaches
gave and even the league when they came out and said, look,
we don't have enough data.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I remember Mike mentioned that, He's like, there's just on
the compliment and usually we have a ton of players
to go off of.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
There was isn't there like one hundred and seventy toush
pushes and the hill one really got hurt. Yet, Yeah,
that doesn't mean it's not dangerous. You know, you say
that nobody had gotten hurt, but the teams that run
at the most well they're the Eagles were dealing with
injuries at Garden Center in the Super Bowl. Could that
have been touch push related? Certainly? Yeah, maybe if you
(04:13):
remember in the Super Bowl Chris Jones jammed his neck
on a toush push play.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Oh yeah, I bet there have been linemen. I'm not
just focused more on quarterbacks, but probably.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I mean, and I understand that could happen on any.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Play, but it is tight quarter rough on the body plays. Yeah,
you know, but that could happen on a sneak. It
could happen on a sneak. But at the same time,
you know, to say that there's you know, there's no
injury that I just think not being able to control
yourself getting pushed from.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Behind, shove from behind into a massive human like.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
You know, a doll. You know, doing my best is
not good for protecting yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And it's just not a fun play to watch.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I think it's terrible to watch. Yeah, you know, even
if the Steelers were the best team ever at it,
I'd be like, yeah, bam.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It it's nothing against the Eagles or it's nothing you
know for them the team to do it. Well, fine,
that's great.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And did Tomlin say something like that too, like good
for We're all in favor of teams being creative and
finding not a loophole, but getting really good at something.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
That really creative.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Though creative might not be the right word, but they've
mastered it.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
It's it's certainly it was certainly something that was innovative. Yeah,
And I and one of the things that Tomlin said
about he said, look, the first time I saw it,
I'm like, well, that can't be legal, right, And then
it was it was a loophole in the role. And
I'm just not a fan, Like I just think back
to that the NFC Championship game when it became a joke.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Oh, I know, you know you just dive goal line too, right,
And what do I have to lose? I'm gonna go
back half the distance of the goal when I'm already
on the goal line, right, No, right, No, there's a
room for that to make it real, don't Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I think that was really the tipping point for the
whole thing.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Right, that's when I realized that ref can actually award
a touchdown. Yeah, like, you're not playing in the spirit
of the rules, but why should the defense be penalized?
I mean, like I kind of was more on Washington
side on that one.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
If they awarded a touchdown, I just thought of this,
who would actually get the touchdown?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Like for fantasy reasons or right, Yeah, you can't give
it the Hurts and just assume he got.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
It and assume he got it right, right?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Right?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Is his team touchdown?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
All the touchdowns wouldn't ad up in the individuals. They
would not, Probably, I assume it's called Eagles touchdown? Would
your defense special teams get it for fantasy that?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I don't know. I don't know. I would certainly be
if if that situation arose, but.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
We weren't like the Shenanigans. The defense is let let alone.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Let's say it happened on the first play of the
game or the first series of the game, and all
the gamblers out there right right first touchdown, you had
Jalen Hurts to score a touchdown and he didn't get
it because of that?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Or do they just say that last play has been
awarded a touchdown? So whatever the play, whether they gave
it the saquon or whatever, you.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Know, I don't know, I don't know. I have no idea.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I guess there's an official score.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I hope I never have to find out.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, maybe in a couple of weeks we'll realize that
that is illegal once again. Yeah, I know one team
that's not going to vote for changing it. One, maybe
two or three, but definitely one.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well, it's funny because at the meetings the Eagles people
were leaning on some of their coaches. Some of the
guys who had been in their organization were now outside
your organization. Said well, this, this is the reason why
you got your job. Kellen kelling Morn. Yeah, that doesn't
change things for me, though.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I mean, it's still a fool going forward.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
If I were Kelling Moore, I'd be like, yeah, but
if I don't like to play, I don't like to play.
You guys were doing that before I got here.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I was just saying, then why did you hire me?
You didn't hire me just because I'm a great toush pusher.
You were pushing tushes before I was here.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You know, the Toush push did not get me my job. No, right,
we won the Super we didn't take it to a
new level.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
I don't think the Saints said we're hiring you just
a toush push or push.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Come in and show us how to do the Toush push.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Right. Maybe they'll be better at it than Joe Blow team.
But yeah, I just I don't think it's a good
NFL play. I don't think it's I don't think it's entertaining.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
It's not entertaining at all.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
That's actually my bottom line with it. I think it's
potentially dangerous to quarterbacks, which is the thing we're trying
to save the most. And I don't think it's entertaining
to watch.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And the scrums themselves are they're basically rugby. It's very
much like I mean, you see the running back gets
stood up after a five yard gain and then all
of a sudden, here comes the lineman and the push
him from behind, and oh it looks so exciting. It's
not exciting.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Nobody ever cares about, like the rest point of view.
But when do they know to blow the whistle too?
Like it's probably a difficult play for them, And spotting
the football's got to be really hard because it's just
so much humanity, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, and it only happens in the middle of the field. Again,
I go back to the Steelers game against Kansas City
when they blew that play dead to George Pickens at
the end of the half, right right right, and the
defender falls off of him and he goes running because
he gets knocked off of him by one of the
other would be tacklers, and he goes running down the
sidelines and they'd already blown the whistle. Yeah, if that's
in the middle of the field, they don't blow the
whistle because somebody might come in and push it.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Right right, there's still feet moving and a lot of
bodies slamming into each other.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, just it takes all the gray area out of Yeah,
any of those.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I don't know what would be losing as an NFL community.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Nothing, not really, there were years and years where that
wasn't legal. Yeah, right right, and we can go back
to that, and I couldn't understand why it ever became legal,
because you're trying to get people from as a defensive player,
and even the offensive players. You can recall like if
you were standing around the pile and somebody came in
and hit you, that's a foul.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But if the guy, if the runner standing up, and
you can run in and smack him as hard as
you want, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Or help, that's not dangerous, right, all right, blast him
in the lower back and push him over the first
down or whatever you think.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
At the John Runyon play, that everybody shows every time
John Runyan, who now works for the league, and he
dishes out the fines I think dishes out the fine
a lot of them for And the one that they
show all the time is the play where he comes
running in and just drills a guy standing next to
the pile right like, Oh, you're the guy enough to
find you and you did this. That was that's kind
of legal right now exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I mean that that he's not the only one that
did that kind I mean power Inspectors was a dangerous
place to be. I mean, there's no question about it.
That's a kind of scouting term for guys that get
near the pow but don't really make tasks.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Up on film.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
You show up and you're you're kind of I was
gonna make that right there. Yeah, you're a inspector. The
running in the world will take you out.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
That's a dangerous place to be.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
It's a real dangerous place to be.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
One thing about the touch push though, I don't know,
but to me it should go away.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I feel wholeheartedly the same way. I would not bother
me one bit. And it's again, it's not anything aimed
at the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I just know the play I wonder the casual fan,
you know, someone that's sort of into football. It's on,
maybe they have a favorite team, whatever, did they like
that play? I bet not, probably when it's not their
team involved, you know, because it entertaining to no.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Who really didn't like that play a lot last year?
Was anybody who owned Saquon Barkley in fantasy football? No?
There you go, right, he could think of the season,
he would have won the MVP.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
He was tackled on the one leg twelve times or something.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
If he took if he had half of the touchdowns
that Jalen Hurts scored, he wins the MVP award. Probably, yeah,
at least gets a lot more of a I mean,
it's been a lot closer.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Some of it was just bad luck getting tackled on
the one so much.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
But in the you know, but then he probably would
get the ball, would have got the ball again if
he had a Steeler or he.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Would have probably gotten the ball or most teams, you know. Right.
The other thing though, is it definitely and this is
more of a going forward on fourth in general just
really influences the offensive play callers tendencies, you know, I
mean second downs, really, first third downs. Really second, I
just have to get close. I don't have to get
over the line, you know. I mean, that's a big
(11:50):
deal for what plays you call. And you could still
third one, you throw a bomb, and you can still.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Do the quarterbacks. You can be good at the quarterbacks
and yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I mean I'm sure Hurts behind that line would be
really good at it.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah. So anyways, I do kind of hope that goes away. Yeah,
me too. Let's get to a break. He is the
Matt Williamson. I am Dale Lolly. You're listening to the
Drive here on the Steelers Audio Network. Matt and I'll
be back with more right after.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
This is the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson
on your twenty four to seven home of the Black
and Gold Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
And we are back. I'm Dale Lolly. He is the
Matt Williamson and Matt. Let's take a look at the
Steelers roster as it stood to start last season.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Start last season, okay, compared to now, so the out
of training camp final roster basically yes, okay, so there's
some changes happened during the year, but yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Know, so the wide receivers going into last season where
George Pickens, Van Jeerson, Calvin Austin, Scotty Miller, Roman Wilson. Okay,
now you're looking at a situation where it is DK Metcalf,
George Pickens, Calvin Austin, Robert Woods, Roman Wilson, Scottie Miller,
(13:16):
Ben Scornic, got some some carryover obviously some carryover, and
some other guy. We're not going to name them all.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I think when we do these things,
you have to look at the guys that are coming back.
How do you feel differently about them now than then
you got a year's worth of data. I feel a
little better about Austin. I think he's progressively, not taking
huge leaps and bounds, but I think most of his aggression.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I want to say, he had like sixteen catches his
first year, right two years ago, that was really his
first year in the league. Well he doubled that in
his second year.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, so I think he's gotten better. I think you
feel better about him no matter what role he's in
than he did a year ago. Roman, Wilson and Pickens
tough for me because I think Pickens is a better
football player. He's a more developed route runner and he's
a better player, and that's all we're really doing here.
But there are questions and volatility and all that, But
(14:12):
I guess we're not talking about what's your long term
prognosis for this guy? Are you going to resign him?
You know, all those things. So I think he's a
better football player than he was a year ago, do
you think so?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean there was another year experience.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that that first year in particularly,
he was a very limited route runner. You know, a
lot of go routes, a lot of comebacks.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I don't feel any different now about Roman Wilson. That's
last year at this time, because he hadn't played the
entire preseason.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Right, I mean I guess, Okay, I guess it depends
on the timeline. It's not today, it's when they got
you know, not the day he was.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Driving into the season. I'm like, I don't know what
to expect from him. Yeah, because he hadn't done anything
in training camp.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I guess that's still the same.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
That's the same.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
And then DK Metcalfe and Robert Woods and Ben's for
that matter, versus the other guys.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I mean, DK is obviously the massive, massive, difference. I mean,
I get see the quarter to receiver rooms of strength
now where it was all. Yeah, I think they've ridiculously
improved at ridiculously, no question. I think scornics of somebody
that they found that is valuable. Van Jefferson would still
probably be in the mix. But would he make the team.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
He would be like Robert Woods.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yes, they'd probably come down to those two and whoever
brings more to the table, and Woods is kind of
a bonus prize. We'll see. Yeah, I mean I'm not
sure he'll make the team. You know, we'll see.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, it's a one year deal. You don't know, there's
no guarantees. The offensive line going into last year, Broderick Jones,
is that last year? This year? That's this year? That
is last year? Yeah, Broderick Jones, Dan Moore, Isaac Samlaw,
Zach Frazier, James Daniels, Filetano, along with Spencer Anderson, Ryan McCollum,
(15:54):
Mason McCormick.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
So her big was hurt, that that was hurt. I
would say they did more depth in that, but I
guess not when the season opened.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Now you're looking at again, Broderick Jones, Isaac Samual Luzac Frasier,
Mason McCormick, Troy Filetanu, Calvin Anderson, Spencer Anderson, Ray McCollum,
Stephen Jones, Max Sharping, and Doug Nester.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I like the depth then better. I mean, with Daniels
and Moore as starters at that point, you had a
lot of young guys.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Well, let's remembering last year. At that time, Spencer Anderson
had never played in a game. Okay, Ryan McCollum had
played in a game, but it was three years earlier
for Detroit. He never you'd never seen him. You feel
better about both the Mason McCormick had never played a game.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I was definitely gonna say that. You feel way better
about McCormick now than then. Yeah, he's a starting guard
that was. We'll see. But Daniels and Moore had value, sure,
you know what I mean. Daniels in particular pre injury,
was above average starter.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I actually feel better about their depth now than I
did last year going into the season with that group.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I guess it is more unproven then.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, and all three of itself, all three of those
guys Spencer Anderson, McCollum, and McCormick had never taken a
snap in a Steelers uniform before. I mean that's on
the start of the game. Even if you were.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Super excited about Frasier then you're more excited now. Yeah,
Like now he's in the top five center where you
were like, I think he's gonna be a good starter,
you know, but a tany's kind of like throwing Wilson conversation.
I think that's just a wash. Have you changed?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I feel better about him now than I did then
on opening day because he had again he had he
hadn't played much in the preseason. What little he did
play I felt pretty good about.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I mean, stuff we saw at camp was great. Yeah,
you know, I my opinion change. I love them then,
I love him now.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, I guess that's that's fair.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Jones is a tough one. You would have liked to
seen a bigger step forward, But that's not what the
conversation is. It's where do you value how do you
know perceive the player then versus now? I would say similar.
I mean, I don't think he's answered the questions. He's
not out of the woods of he's going to be great,
(18:13):
And there was some ups and downs, but post buy
was a lot better than pre buy.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, I'm not ready. There are a lot of people
he stinks you gotta get like, Yeah, I don't feel
that way about him.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
No, and I don't think they do either. Trying to
think who he needs.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
To be better than what he has been. But I'm
not ready to say, oh, he's just.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Awful, right right, And I wasn't ready to say that then,
I'm not ready to say it now. But boy, this
is a pivotal year. Yeah, I mean there's no question
about that. But that doesn't change what we thought of
him then? Are now? Who else is are we not
talking about? I mean, like the Dylan Cooks and Sharpings
and those guys probably are what they are at this point.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, you know, but she didn't really have them on
the roster at that point right before. I mean, yeah,
you didn't have those guys on your roster, right, I
mean you.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Did find some dudes at Anderson, both Anderson's in a way,
one you drafted, one you found, and you're comfortable putting
them in games where you didn't know that about them before. Yeah,
I guess it's better now, slightly slightly Yeah, room for improvement, yeah,
well absolutely, depth concerns for me, Yeah, you know. I
(19:25):
mean they could go off the rails. Jones has a
bad year and Fraser Guitart like you.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Know, well, I mean what team isn't that There's no question.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I mean it's a very thin position.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
You start losing tackles, you're in trouble big time. Looking
at the tight end position largely the same except Michael
Preuit swapped out for Donald Parum.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Maybe I'm a little less on Hayward. I mean, I'm
trying to be as nitpicky as possible. I'm definitely higher
on Washington.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Feel better about way better about Washington. I did a year.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
I thought he was one of the most improved players
on the team. I think he's His numbers will never
show it, but I think he's one of the harder
tight ends to play against. For opposing defensive coordinators across
the board, no matter what style you play.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Fry remove them the same one.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
I think. I don't think I've a way he's a
lot worse, he's a lot better. I think he is
what he is, and I think they're still untapp potential there. Yeah,
more over the middle passing would help him to I
mean I think schematically things could go his way. Parham
versus prew It, they're very different. Yeah, very different, very different.
(20:34):
I'm kind of excited to see the Parham usage or
can he block anybody? He's tall and skinny, like, I mean,
he's gonna have he's gonna struggle with the power edge guys. Yeah,
but he could be a getting away dude and he
can might. I don't know what they'll do with them.
I mean, prew It was more somewhat full backish move
all around, you know, so, I mean that's small potatoes though.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
At running back right now, you're looking at Jalm Warren,
Caleb Johnson, Kenneth Gamewell, Cordell Patterson. Last year going into
the season, Well, it was nausey Harris, Jaleen Warren, Quardell Patterson, Gamee.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Well's a nice bonus that you didn't have. It would
have been nice to have one more back as opposed
to some of the guys that are bringing back the
undrafted dudes. Johnson's an unknown, but I think I would
be higher on him now than I was Nausey then.
I'm not sure if I'm being fair to myself with that,
(21:33):
you know, I mean, sitting in La Trobe talking about
nause I mean, I wasn't saying bad things, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
And that's the that's the conundrum with Naugy Harris. Right, Okay,
he went out and he put up four straight one
thousand yard seasons. Yeah, yeah, nobody else did that over
that time period. But it was also you know, kind
of high volume, thousand.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Hard fought yards and not a lot of big plays.
And right, I mean, he is what he is. And
if you told me Johnson this year would be as
good as Nausey last year, I think I'd go fish.
I'm actually hoping for better.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
As good at like somebody somebody brought that up on
the mess a real broad statement, you know, and they said, well,
you know, can he be? I said, look if if
he goes out and puts up over the next four years,
four thousand yard seasons, even if he just barely gets
to a thousand yards like nause did in a couple,
how did he get there?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
And said the eyeball test is important for me on
that was.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Did he get there on two hundred and twenty five carries?
Did it take him three hundred? Like there's a there's a.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Huge averaging four to three and breaking off some longer
runs I'm sure he'll face lighter boxes than Nausey did
to be in Nause's corn, right, he did not have
an easy go of it and did not. You would
hope Johnson has a better, more talented offensive line, certainly
more talented pass catchers to aid the running game. You're
(22:55):
two of the system. But I think Johnson has a
really good chance to be the better player for the Steelers, right,
you know, I'm with you. You throw a little gainwell
in there, helps you know. They didn't have that guy.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
And I don't know that Patterson makes this team.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I kind of don't think he will. But he was intriguing,
I guess a year ago, you know, yeah, I was
glad he was around, right, a third running back, clearly
a third running back with some gadgety stuff and didn't
really come to fruition.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah. The quarterbacks coming out of camp last year, of course,
were Russell Wilson, Justin Fields, Kyle Allen. Right now it's
it's still Mason, Rudolph, will Howard, Skyler Thompson. I think
we can work on the assumption, yeah, that he who
shall not be named will be.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
But like Howard, I mean to really nerd out, I
mean Howard has more value than Allen. Yes, Thompson probably
has the least value. Yeah, I mean, if we're talking
about the bottom of the wrong guys, judging Rudolph, how
I feel about him now verse how I felt about
Wilson and Fields. Then I was pretty optimistic about those guys.
(24:05):
So I would give both them the nod over Rudolph,
but I'm really happy he's here at the moment, assuming
another piece drops, you know what I mean, Like, I'll
take the quarterback room with Rogers over that quarterback room.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, but I was.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I had some optimism about both Fields and Wilson, you know.
I mean, it wasn't like these guys are gonna be
one and done. They're not worth investing in or anything.
I mean, I only broke camp. I agree what I'm
trying to think here, I agree. And Wilson at that
point had some injury stuff. I mean, he hadn't done much.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, moving over to the defense. Coming out of camp,
your defensive line was Larry Ogan, Jobi Kean, u Benton,
cam Hayward, Dean Lowry, Montrevius Adams, Isaiah Loudermilk, Logan Lee
was in the mix. In the mix Hurt. Now you're
looking at Derek Harmon, Keanu Benton, Cam Hayward, Isaiah Loudermilk
(24:58):
ya Ya Black, Daniel ca Dean Lowry, Logan Lee. We'll
see about some of the other guys there, Dominique Davis.
But I think those are.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
If we look at like guys top seven verse top
seven argument. So people listen probably remember I never say
anything bad about Cam Hayward, but coming out of camp,
I was worried. I'm like, is this the year he
gets old? I mean, he was coming off an injury
plague season. I didn't expect him to be an All
pro in twenty twenty four, you know, And now I'm
(25:32):
pretty sure he's an all pro. So my valuation, my
evaluation of Hayward then versus now, is much rosier now,
even though he's a year old. Yeah, I mean just
because the year he was coming off of at the
time wasn't like he was doing much in camp for
preseason either. It wasn't bull rushing guys into the club.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I mean he was taking that stuff, taking a lot
of days off.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
And yeah, even sight unseen, I'll take Harmon over Oroganjobi.
I think he'll make a decent player.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I think he'll make more plays.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, I mean even the rookie version verse an aging,
hard to keep on the field type guy. I'll take
harmon Lowry's Lowry. I like Benton a little more now
than then, but that was also expected. I mean like
I had high hopes and he basically fulfilled them so good.
(26:24):
I would say his name wrong. But the Patriot dude
they signed, he's another one, not like Parum. I put
him a part the tier or two above him as
a player, but I am kind of curious. Is he
gonna play nose? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
What?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I don't know what to make of him. So he's
kind of an incomplete for me. But if I'm comparing
him to louder Milk or Lowry, I like him probably
better now than I did those guys then. I was
an Adams fan and didn't last season didn't go his way.
(27:06):
I mean, two seasons ago I thought were really good.
I thought it was one of the more underrated Steelers.
So I felt really good about him leaving training camp,
and that one didn't really come to fruition. Injuries had
something to do with it. Lee's just like the Roman
Wilson conversation.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, you just don't know we missing anyone. I think
that's it.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I would lean towards now, I think so. I mean,
I feel so much different. Boy Cam, I didn't think
he was you know, I mean it was unbelievable last year. Yeah,
where I.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Thought, no, this might be the end outside linebacker. Last
year you had what high Smith still had the Marvin
Lee al At that point.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I me, he's needs to be factored into this conversation somehow.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, and Nick Krbick, where your four linebacker outside backers
coming out of camp basically, and now it looks a
little different. You get Watt and high Smith. You also
have Herbig. Has our opinion on those three changed at all? No,
not a bit, and there are all one years. Might
feel better about Herbig. I thought Herbig was better in
year two than he had been in year one.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, as I say, I mean he might be. If
we're grading on one hundred scale, he may have went
from an eighty four to an eighty six, you know
what I mean. Where the other two don't change at all.
It wasn't like, boy, they're a year older, you're slower.
I don't see that.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
So that's kind of a wash lel still saint. No same.
Then you've added Jeremiah Moon and Jack Sawyer to the
mix as well.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
There just wasn't a Sawyer last year. Yeah, you had
to go trade for a Sawyer. Yeah yeah, yeah, So
better now?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Okay? Insideline by player, right, Yeah, Queen, Patrick Wilson or
Peyton Wilson, I should say, Cole Holcomb, Malie Harrison, Mark Robinson.
You got Devin Harper and Carson Brunner there as well.
Last year coming out of camp it was Queen and
Landon Roberts, Peyton Wilson, Mark Robinson and Tyler Matakaevich.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Okay, so this isn't the way we should do it,
but I prefer Roberts to Harrison as a linebacker. Okay,
but I think as currently constructed, Harrison's now you're four,
where Roberts was your two or three. Right, So if
we look at the depth chart, if we rank them
one through four, Roberts is really fighting Holcombe or Wilson,
(29:28):
you know what I mean? And I feel better about
Wilson now than then, and I think he's ready to
be not just a nickel dime. I may have had,
I may have had higher hopes for Queen then than now.
I'm not saying he had a bad year, but I
thought he might be a top five he was coming
off a Pro Bowl with the Ravens. I'd probably had
(29:50):
a higher grade. I did have a higher grade on
him then than now. It doesn't mean he can't get
back to that, but I thought he might be a
top five linebacker and he wasn't a top five linebacker.
I still think Holcomb's good. I mean, if Holkom's are three,
it's not bad, and it's not bad at all?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Right bad? And I you know, to me, Carson Brunner
is a younger, faster version of Mattakeaevich.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah that's gonna be a wash. Mark Robinson may or
may not be here, but that's a wash too. Yeah,
he's gotten a little better on defense too. I mean
he's a lifetime special teamer probably probably. But do you
feel better about your top three today than then? I
feel different, tops.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I'd feel a lot better about Wilson now than I
did going in. I had hopes for Wilson last year. Yeah,
now I've actually seen what it looks like, and.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
So I think's good. Let phrase it this way. Twenty
twenty four, Queen Wilson slash Roberts is your top three.
I think that's about equal to twenty twenty five. Queen
better Wilson Holkum, who I think is going to be
backing up both guys. Yeah, and you didn't have a Harrison,
(31:04):
And you don't compare Harrison to Roberts. You compare him
to the number four, Yeah, which is a special team,
which was Mark Robbins. This is Robinson. Now he's a five. Yeah,
so you gained a spot on the death charter mouth,
you know what I mean. Yeah, there's like one more
body there too. Yeah, so I guess now, but i'd
like to see Queens. Yeah, Queen.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Could be better at cornerback. Going into last season, it
was Dante Jackson, Joey Porter Jr. Corey Trice, Darius Rush
with Beanie Bishop as the nickel. Yeah, now you're looking
at Darius Slay, Joey Porter Jr. Corey Trice, James Pierre
who they added back after the season started last year,
(31:47):
Kyler McMichael, Cameron McCutcheon, Sebastian castro Or, I'm sorry, Brandon Eccles,
and then.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
You've got and Bishop as well. It's close. I mean
Porter's really good.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Porter's very good, and this idea that he somehow had
a down season last year, I don't get.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I wasn't gonna phrase it that way, but I was
going to phrase it that when we broke camp, I
thought maybe he was going to be a top five corner. Sure,
and he's just really good and not that yet. But
that doesn't like hurt his grade or make me worry
about him.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
We didn't know anything about Trice going into last year.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
That's what I say is I think just a little
more knowledge is good. Yeah, because he was a total
one now total one, and he was just like a
seven round pick version.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, he hadn't played. If we could be.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Fair to ourselves, what was our thoughts on Jackson then
versus Lay Now?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I thought Jackson was going to be good. I thought
he better than he was, to be honest, Yeah, I
think that's fair.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, but Slay's had a way better career.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Slave's had a ridiculously better career.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I mean, Slay didn't have his best year last year,
but it was still a good year, and it's a
better year than Jackson ever had. Yeah, So I'll take
my chances with an older Sleigh than the version of
Jackson we were going into with and.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I think what you didn't have last year is Echols.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
I'm saying Echles is the bonus prize.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna you know, Eccles over
a guy like Darius Rush, who I liked Darius.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
We were kind of excited about him a little bit.
But I remember talking about Rush and Trice then like.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
The they might be the answer.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, maybe, who knows? You know they they're free. You
have one first seven round pick when he picked up
for nothing.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
You know way more now about Trice than you did
then then. Yeah, Rush, I don't even know if he's
in the NFL right now.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I'm not sure if he is or definitely isn't guaranteed
to make a team. Then right here, and.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Bishop played a lot for you. Played better than I
thought he would, played better than he thought.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
I mean he was we broke camp as an undrafted
free agent, making the team as one of the last
guys on the roster, and he was more than that. Yeah,
so better now?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Okay, safety had Deshaun Elliott, making Fitzpatrick, Miles, Kellerbrew Wan Thornhill.
This is what you have now with Sebastian Castro and
Joshua Bledsoe also on that roster. Last year it was Elliott, Fitzpatrick,
Miles Kellerbrew, Demonte Kaz and Jalen Elliott breaking Camp.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
So if we go back to like the Queen conversation.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I had no idea what to expect from Elliott, right,
I think he was better, way.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Exceeded and I thought he was gonna Yeah. I'm like, oh,
that's a nice pick up. He looks like an okay starter. Yeah,
well he's like really good now.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
You know.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
So I feel way better about that player than I
did that. I don't think any differently a Manko, No,
I really don't, and I don't care what the not
to say or any of that. I think he is
one of the best safeties in the league.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
And I like I like Thornhill's fit better than Kz's fit.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
I think by a tier or two. I mean, like,
I really don't even think that's close.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
And KZ was fine.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
He's we're talking.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
About not a bad player safety, But I didn't want
to have to play him in the box. No, And
as I can, I can do either with Thornhill and
feel fine.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Thorn Hill's more talented. Yeah, he's taller, he's longer, he's faster,
he's more versatile. I don't know if he's as good
as tackler, but if he's your third safety, that's a positive.
Where Casey's not on a team right now. Yeah, Kilbrew's
the same. Didn't have some hope for Watts. Yeah, I
mean that's an unfortunate one. You know, that was something
(35:29):
I was starting.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Wasn't on the roster when the season started last year.
He was already hurt.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Oh okay, so he doesn't he didn't count right, right, right,
And unfortunately, when we have the same conversation the day
camp breaks in Latrobe, three or four of these dudes
are gonna get hurt too.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
You know, it's easier to say it now because.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Again that's why you build this depth.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah yeah, yeah, but they might add another body or
two two yeah, so preferably a quarterback, but in addition to.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
In addition to so that's what you're looking at at
that point. Specialists are better now. Boz is even better
than I thought he was. Like, I think he might
be the best kicker in the league. I think that
is the case.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Yeah, I was really excited about Johnston. Johnston but he's
gonna be back. He's back, right, right. I assume he's
still the same guy. Ye, right, right. So there's that
weightman floating around who's an NFL punner.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah. So anyways, that was just an interesting little aside there.
Let's get to another break. He is the Matt Williamson
feeling better about the Steelers roster today than going into
last season. I'm Dale Lollie. You're listening to the Drive
here on the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamsons on
your twenty four to seven home of the Black and
Gold Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And welcome back. I am Dale Lolli. He is the
Matt Williamson and the mattow was telling you after Friday's show.
I got got back home and I've been trying. I've
been in contact with the University of Iowa. I'm working
on some stories on some of the draft picks. And
I made the big ask. Can I get Coach Farrence
(37:11):
on the phone?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Nice? Nice and hometown guy.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
You know, six o'clock on Friday, I get a call.
I missed it the first time from Iowa. Look at it.
I listened to my to the message. I'm like, oh,
Kirk Ference, I missed nice school. So I started texting
him back. Well, he was texting me at the same time.
We both hit sended at the same time, and immediately
my phone rings. It's Kirk Ferrence. Cool and we were
(37:36):
talking about it. We're just chatting, you know, before we
started the interview, and he's like, yeah, you know, I
started my career eighty one. Is a grad assistant grat
assistant at PITT. I said, I know how old is he?
Briefly grad assistant at PITT in eighty one. He's got
to be graduate high school, mid seventies, mid seventies sometime.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, okay, so she's probably like fifteen sixteen years older
than me. Yeah, okay, almost seventy.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
But the Pitt grad assistant job.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
It's a breeding ground, dude. There's been some pretty prominent dudes.
I mean, John Gruden. I'm trying to think who's some
of the other ones that really went on to big things.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Wanstat, Frank Signetti Junior was a grad assistant.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, I was at Ben McAdoo who end up being
the head coach for the Giants. Joe Moorehead was before me.
He was he's offense. He's the head coach at Akron now,
but he was offensive coordinator at Penn State, goes zips
and uh it did some big things at Oregon too.
I know I'm missing a ton of them.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
There's been a bunch and you can't necessarily find that
information anywhere because right I don't really keep track of
the grad assistance.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
But that's a pretty long list. I mean, I'm well
down the most successful by about a bazillion. Well one
though is Steelers new linebacker coach McCurley, Scott Curly. Mcurley,
he's got and I overlapped briefly there him as a player,
and then he'd also gad a pit too. So yeah,
it's a breeding ground.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
For those guys have all gone on to great things.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
And one of these things is not like the other.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
You're here with me, here we sit doing even better things.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Oh yeah, So what did coach Farns have to say? Oh?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
We just you know, I talked about I'm sure talk
about allree of the draft. We talked about Sebastian Casher.
We also talked about Logan Lee. Okay, And you know
the thing that I commented to him about it was Like,
the interesting thing about all four of those guys, none
of them transferred. Yeah, they were all Iowa guys from
the start that they transfer, No, they were all Iowa
(39:35):
guys the whole time. It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I think that's actually kind of an Iowa thing. And the
more I think about it is even like their most
recent guys weren't three different schools.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
They haven't had a quarterback for It's really kind of
if you start looking at the Steelers draft class as
a whole. Swear was an Ohio State guy from from
from the start. Harmon even though he transferred, he didn't
want to transfer, right until his mom said no, go ahead.
He wanted to stay at home.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yeah. Yeah, stenuating circumstances.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Right, or he would have just stayed in Michigan State.
And even Howard, he was a grad transfer.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, yeah, he spent four.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Years at k State. He did it, He graduated, He
did his time there, his time there.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
That's interesting. Brunar didn't.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Brunar didn't transfer, And even even the Kent.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
The Caleb Johnson Kent didn't.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Right, they were all guys that stayed at once pretty
much at one school the whole way through other than
you know, Howard transferring and Harmon transferring. That was it.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
McCormick could have many times. I'm just trying to Yeah,
I mean kind of putting some extra effort into OMAR
draft trends. You know. Now we have three of them,
and the three big ones are big schools in for visits,
high spark guys, you know, workout numbers, and then someone
corrected me and are like, you might want to throw
national champions on there too. He's drafted a lot of
(40:56):
national champions, including two this year. But I wonder if
non trans answers is also somewhat of a trend.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Somewhat of a train. I get guys that's spent a
long time, Like, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
They compared to other thirty one teams.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah, I don't know that the guys that are jumping
around left and right all the time, if I were,
if I were looking at that, I don't know that
I would be as high on them. Like I get
you transfer once, maybe the coach coach left or something
that's leav incarnate word right, Well that's what happened, Like
Walter Nolan left A and M when the coach left. Okay,
(41:32):
I get it. I always felt the guy who recruited that,
the guy who recruited you there is gone. All right,
I'm going to go somewhere else. I mean, by the.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Days I was old school. You go in there, he
promise the parents, we're here forever. We want your kid
to graduate. And then the coach leaves next year, you know.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, the guys who transfer like three or four times
in their career because they're chasing a dollar.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Yeah, that part I don't love.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
And again, I mean we've talked about this too. Scoutings
changed so much that you go back to the school
that they left. Are they always going to talk well
about you if you're not there, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Probably not?
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Probably not? Ye, you know. Or you have more teammates,
you have more coaches, you have more people you interact with.
Like in the coaching world, getting fired isn't necessarily bad
because then you get to work with the whole new
twelve guys or fifteen guys, assuming you get hired again.
I hired again, and I actually never tried to be honest.
But you know, getting fired wasn't necessarily bad. It's just networking, right,
(42:25):
But networking could be bad in these instances too, like
he was here for the money and he took off
in one year to go to Ohio State win national championship,
right right, I don't want a mercenary.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
And I just thought that was interesting. Yeah, it hit
me when I was talking to him. We started talking
about all four of those guys. I'm like, those guys
were all.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Homegrown, all homegrown. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
So anyways, let's get to a break. That's going to
do it for our number one of the drive here
on the Steelers Audio Network. Matt and I will be
back with our number two right after this
At least he's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt
Williamson on your twenty four to seven home of the
Black and Gold Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
And welcome to the Drive. I am Dale LOLLI he
is the Matt Williamson. And well it's a lovely Monday
here in Pittsburgh. Yeah, as we dodge the rain drops
once again, it's gone off and on rainy.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
It's kind of that what it is this time of year.
But at least there's no power outagism. But I think
we're past all that stuff, right.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I think. Although they said someone hail today Mike crazy
with my house on Friday, though I didn't really believe
I had, Like, I mean, it was a couple of
inches thick up against the side of my house. Oh wow,
brick house and it must have just hit and just
all went straight down. I'm like, wow, that was pretty
that's bonkers, pretty impressive. Didn't push the house over, no, no,
(00:57):
But on that subject. According to the Washington Post, when
the owners meet in Minneapolis on May twentieth and twenty, first.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I forgot there's another owners meeting that they don't go to.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
This all the stuff gets pushed through anything and they
tabled and the table at the meetings to push and
all that kind of stuff there. The league is expected
to consider a revised proposal that would prohibit not just
the touch push, but any aiding of a runner. See,
I think that's the only way to do it. That's
the way to do it.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
If you're going to go in, you make the rule
across the board. And that used to be a rule.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
It used to be the case.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
And I never knew it went away until everyone's helping
each other, you know, like I never you know, a
two hundred pound running back is fighting for his life
at the two yard line, gang tackles, fight and blah
blah blah, and then a big guard comes in and
grabs them and throws them over the goal line. That
shouldn't be allowed. No, you know, tag team wrestling.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
You know, I'm waiting for some team to you know,
get a little person at running back and just toss
them over the line of scrimming.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Did you hear that one? You're not the first to
think of this. The dude that came up, what's his name,
He used to coach at Texas Tech. He was like
the first air raid guy publicly said we were looking
for little people that are athletic, and we were going
to throw. We were going to throw over the over
(02:20):
the top. I don't think that should be legal. Mike Leach, Yes,
I think it was Mike Leach. Yeah, and say it's
a well known coach that is a very innovative mind
who wanted to slightly crazy, slightly crazy, and we had
some good baseball stories before we had you know, went
on the air. Didn't wasn't there like a very small
human being that they would bring up in like the
(02:41):
forties center strike vaguely? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
He walked a lot of it. I don't know that
he did a bunch of times, but they did it
at least once.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
At least once. There's a picture of want to play.
But anyway, it should be illegal.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
It should be illegal.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yeah, I think the tush bush should be illegal.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Just yeah, just make all of it. You can't aid.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
You can sneak all you want. I just can't have
somebody behind me do it work for me, Reah, that's
my part of it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah. No, The quarterback sneak has been part of football
since football began. You know, the the Ice Bowl was
the Liver World, the Ice Bowl was one on a
quarterback sneak. Sure, sure, you know that's Tom Brady's great
at it. I mean, you don't even have to be
a great athlete to do it right. You have a
feel for where the opening and then dive into it.
But he pushing somebody through that should be illegal.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
I'm glad it hasn't happened, but I'm also very shocked
that someone has not been injured.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Well, that was the quarterback. That was the reasoning when
we were at the meetings that some of the coaches
gave and even the league when they came out and said, look,
we don't have enough data.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I remember Mike mentioned that, He's like, there's just on
the compliment and usually we have a ton of players
to go off of.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
There was isn't there like one hundred and seventy toush
pushes and the hill one really got hurt. Yet, Yeah,
that doesn't mean it's not dangerous. You know, you say
that nobody had gotten hurt, but the teams that run
at the most well they're the Eagles were dealing with
injuries at Garden Center in the Super Bowl. Could that
have been touch push related? Certainly? Yeah, maybe if you
(04:13):
remember in the Super Bowl Chris Jones jammed his neck
on a toush push play.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Oh yeah, I bet there have been linemen. I'm not
just focused more on quarterbacks, but probably.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I mean, and I understand that could happen on any.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Play, but it is tight quarter rough on the body plays. Yeah,
you know, but that could happen on a sneak. It
could happen on a sneak. But at the same time,
you know, to say that there's you know, there's no
injury that I just think not being able to control
yourself getting pushed from.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Behind, shove from behind into a massive human like.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
You know, a doll. You know, doing my best is
not good for protecting yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
And it's just not a fun play to watch.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I think it's terrible to watch. Yeah, you know, even
if the Steelers were the best team ever at it,
I'd be like, yeah, bam.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It it's nothing against the Eagles or it's nothing you
know for them the team to do it. Well, fine,
that's great.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
And did Tomlin say something like that too, like good
for We're all in favor of teams being creative and
finding not a loophole, but getting really good at something.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
That really creative.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Though creative might not be the right word, but they've
mastered it.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
It's it's certainly it was certainly something that was innovative. Yeah,
And I and one of the things that Tomlin said
about he said, look, the first time I saw it,
I'm like, well, that can't be legal, right, And then
it was it was a loophole in the role. And
I'm just not a fan, Like I just think back
to that the NFC Championship game when it became a joke.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Oh, I know, you know you just dive goal line too, right,
And what do I have to lose? I'm gonna go
back half the distance of the goal when I'm already
on the goal line, right, No, right, No, there's a
room for that to make it real, don't Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I think that was really the tipping point for the
whole thing.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Right, that's when I realized that ref can actually award
a touchdown. Yeah, like, you're not playing in the spirit
of the rules, but why should the defense be penalized?
I mean, like I kind of was more on Washington
side on that one.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
If they awarded a touchdown, I just thought of this,
who would actually get the touchdown?
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Like for fantasy reasons or right, Yeah, you can't give
it the Hurts and just assume he got.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
It and assume he got it right, right?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Right?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Is his team touchdown?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
All the touchdowns wouldn't ad up in the individuals. They
would not, Probably, I assume it's called Eagles touchdown? Would
your defense special teams get it for fantasy that?
Speaker 2 (06:26):
I don't know. I don't know. I would certainly be
if if that situation arose, but.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
We weren't like the Shenanigans. The defense is let let alone.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Let's say it happened on the first play of the
game or the first series of the game, and all
the gamblers out there right right first touchdown, you had
Jalen Hurts to score a touchdown and he didn't get
it because of that?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Or do they just say that last play has been
awarded a touchdown? So whatever the play, whether they gave
it the saquon or whatever, you.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Know, I don't know, I don't know. I have no idea.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I guess there's an official score.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I hope I never have to find out.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
Yeah, maybe in a couple of weeks we'll realize that
that is illegal once again. Yeah, I know one team
that's not going to vote for changing it. One, maybe
two or three, but definitely one.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Well, it's funny because at the meetings the Eagles people
were leaning on some of their coaches. Some of the
guys who had been in their organization were now outside
your organization. Said well, this, this is the reason why
you got your job. Kellen kelling Morn. Yeah, that doesn't
change things for me, though.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
I mean, it's still a fool going forward.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
If I were Kelling Moore, I'd be like, yeah, but
if I don't like to play, I don't like to play.
You guys were doing that before I got here.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I was just saying, then why did you hire me?
You didn't hire me just because I'm a great toush pusher.
You were pushing tushes before I was here.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You know, the Toush push did not get me my job. No, right,
we won the Super we didn't take it to a
new level.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
I don't think the Saints said we're hiring you just
a toush push or push.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Come in and show us how to do the Toush push.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Right. Maybe they'll be better at it than Joe Blow team.
But yeah, I just I don't think it's a good
NFL play. I don't think it's I don't think it's entertaining.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
It's not entertaining at all.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
That's actually my bottom line with it. I think it's
potentially dangerous to quarterbacks, which is the thing we're trying
to save the most. And I don't think it's entertaining
to watch.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And the scrums themselves are they're basically rugby. It's very
much like I mean, you see the running back gets
stood up after a five yard gain and then all
of a sudden, here comes the lineman and the push
him from behind, and oh it looks so exciting. It's
not exciting.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Nobody ever cares about, like the rest point of view.
But when do they know to blow the whistle too?
Like it's probably a difficult play for them, And spotting
the football's got to be really hard because it's just
so much humanity, you know.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah, and it only happens in the middle of the field. Again,
I go back to the Steelers game against Kansas City
when they blew that play dead to George Pickens at
the end of the half, right right right, and the
defender falls off of him and he goes running because
he gets knocked off of him by one of the
other would be tacklers, and he goes running down the
sidelines and they'd already blown the whistle. Yeah, if that's
in the middle of the field, they don't blow the
whistle because somebody might come in and push it.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Right right, there's still feet moving and a lot of
bodies slamming into each other.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, just it takes all the gray area out of Yeah,
any of those.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I don't know what would be losing as an NFL community.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Nothing, not really, there were years and years where that
wasn't legal. Yeah, right right, and we can go back
to that, and I couldn't understand why it ever became legal,
because you're trying to get people from as a defensive player,
and even the offensive players. You can recall like if
you were standing around the pile and somebody came in
and hit you, that's a foul.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But if the guy, if the runner standing up, and
you can run in and smack him as hard as
you want, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Or help, that's not dangerous, right, all right, blast him
in the lower back and push him over the first
down or whatever you think.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
At the John Runyon play, that everybody shows every time
John Runyan, who now works for the league, and he
dishes out the fines I think dishes out the fine
a lot of them for And the one that they
show all the time is the play where he comes
running in and just drills a guy standing next to
the pile right like, Oh, you're the guy enough to
find you and you did this. That was that's kind
of legal right now exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I mean that that he's not the only one that
did that kind I mean power Inspectors was a dangerous
place to be. I mean, there's no question about it.
That's a kind of scouting term for guys that get
near the pow but don't really make tasks.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Up on film.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
You show up and you're you're kind of I was
gonna make that right there. Yeah, you're a inspector. The
running in the world will take you out.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
That's a dangerous place to be.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
It's a real dangerous place to be.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
One thing about the touch push though, I don't know,
but to me it should go away.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I feel wholeheartedly the same way. I would not bother
me one bit. And it's again, it's not anything aimed
at the Eagles.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I just know the play I wonder the casual fan,
you know, someone that's sort of into football. It's on,
maybe they have a favorite team, whatever, did they like
that play? I bet not, probably when it's not their
team involved, you know, because it entertaining to no.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Who really didn't like that play a lot last year?
Was anybody who owned Saquon Barkley in fantasy football? No?
There you go, right, he could think of the season,
he would have won the MVP.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
He was tackled on the one leg twelve times or something.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
If he took if he had half of the touchdowns
that Jalen Hurts scored, he wins the MVP award. Probably, yeah,
at least gets a lot more of a I mean,
it's been a lot closer.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Some of it was just bad luck getting tackled on
the one so much.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
But in the you know, but then he probably would
get the ball, would have got the ball again if
he had a Steeler or he.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Would have probably gotten the ball or most teams, you know. Right.
The other thing though, is it definitely and this is
more of a going forward on fourth in general just
really influences the offensive play callers tendencies, you know, I
mean second downs, really, first third downs. Really second, I
just have to get close. I don't have to get
over the line, you know. I mean, that's a big
(11:50):
deal for what plays you call. And you could still
third one, you throw a bomb, and you can still.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Do the quarterbacks. You can be good at the quarterbacks
and yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
I mean I'm sure Hurts behind that line would be
really good at it.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yeah. So anyways, I do kind of hope that goes away. Yeah,
me too. Let's get to a break. He is the
Matt Williamson. I am Dale Lolly. You're listening to the
Drive here on the Steelers Audio Network. Matt and I'll
be back with more right after.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
This is the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamson
on your twenty four to seven home of the Black
and Gold Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
And we are back. I'm Dale Lolly. He is the
Matt Williamson and Matt. Let's take a look at the
Steelers roster as it stood to start last season.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Start last season, okay, compared to now, so the out
of training camp final roster basically yes, okay, so there's
some changes happened during the year, but yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Know, so the wide receivers going into last season where
George Pickens, Van Jeerson, Calvin Austin, Scotty Miller, Roman Wilson. Okay,
now you're looking at a situation where it is DK Metcalf,
George Pickens, Calvin Austin, Robert Woods, Roman Wilson, Scottie Miller,
(13:16):
Ben Scornic, got some some carryover obviously some carryover, and
some other guy. We're not going to name them all.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I think when we do these things,
you have to look at the guys that are coming back.
How do you feel differently about them now than then
you got a year's worth of data. I feel a
little better about Austin. I think he's progressively, not taking
huge leaps and bounds, but I think most of his aggression.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
I want to say, he had like sixteen catches his
first year, right two years ago, that was really his
first year in the league. Well he doubled that in
his second year.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, so I think he's gotten better. I think you
feel better about him no matter what role he's in
than he did a year ago. Roman, Wilson and Pickens
tough for me because I think Pickens is a better
football player. He's a more developed route runner and he's
a better player, and that's all we're really doing here.
But there are questions and volatility and all that, But
(14:12):
I guess we're not talking about what's your long term
prognosis for this guy? Are you going to resign him?
You know, all those things. So I think he's a
better football player than he was a year ago, do
you think so?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean there was another year experience.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that that first year in particularly,
he was a very limited route runner. You know, a
lot of go routes, a lot of comebacks.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I don't feel any different now about Roman Wilson. That's
last year at this time, because he hadn't played the
entire preseason.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Right, I mean I guess, Okay, I guess it depends
on the timeline. It's not today, it's when they got
you know, not the day he was.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Driving into the season. I'm like, I don't know what
to expect from him. Yeah, because he hadn't done anything
in training camp.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I guess that's still the same.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
That's the same.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
And then DK Metcalfe and Robert Woods and Ben's for
that matter, versus the other guys.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
I mean, DK is obviously the massive, massive, difference. I mean,
I get see the quarter to receiver rooms of strength
now where it was all. Yeah, I think they've ridiculously
improved at ridiculously, no question. I think scornics of somebody
that they found that is valuable. Van Jefferson would still
probably be in the mix. But would he make the team.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
He would be like Robert Woods.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yes, they'd probably come down to those two and whoever
brings more to the table, and Woods is kind of
a bonus prize. We'll see. Yeah, I mean I'm not
sure he'll make the team. You know, we'll see.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, it's a one year deal. You don't know, there's
no guarantees. The offensive line going into last year, Broderick Jones,
is that last year? This year? That's this year? That
is last year? Yeah, Broderick Jones, Dan Moore, Isaac Samlaw,
Zach Frazier, James Daniels, Filetano, along with Spencer Anderson, Ryan McCollum,
(15:54):
Mason McCormick.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
So her big was hurt, that that was hurt. I
would say they did more depth in that, but I
guess not when the season opened.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Now you're looking at again, Broderick Jones, Isaac Samual Luzac Frasier,
Mason McCormick, Troy Filetanu, Calvin Anderson, Spencer Anderson, Ray McCollum,
Stephen Jones, Max Sharping, and Doug Nester.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
I like the depth then better. I mean, with Daniels
and Moore as starters at that point, you had a
lot of young guys.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Well, let's remembering last year. At that time, Spencer Anderson
had never played in a game. Okay, Ryan McCollum had
played in a game, but it was three years earlier
for Detroit. He never you'd never seen him. You feel
better about both the Mason McCormick had never played a game.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
I was definitely gonna say that. You feel way better
about McCormick now than then. Yeah, he's a starting guard
that was. We'll see. But Daniels and Moore had value, sure,
you know what I mean. Daniels in particular pre injury,
was above average starter.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I actually feel better about their depth now than I
did last year going into the season with that group.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I guess it is more unproven then.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, and all three of itself, all three of those
guys Spencer Anderson, McCollum, and McCormick had never taken a
snap in a Steelers uniform before. I mean that's on
the start of the game. Even if you were.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Super excited about Frasier then you're more excited now. Yeah,
Like now he's in the top five center where you
were like, I think he's gonna be a good starter,
you know, but a tany's kind of like throwing Wilson conversation.
I think that's just a wash. Have you changed?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I feel better about him now than I did then
on opening day because he had again he had he
hadn't played much in the preseason. What little he did
play I felt pretty good about.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I mean, stuff we saw at camp was great. Yeah,
you know, I my opinion change. I love them then,
I love him now.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, I guess that's that's fair.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Jones is a tough one. You would have liked to
seen a bigger step forward, But that's not what the
conversation is. It's where do you value how do you
know perceive the player then versus now? I would say similar.
I mean, I don't think he's answered the questions. He's
not out of the woods of he's going to be great,
(18:13):
And there was some ups and downs, but post buy
was a lot better than pre buy.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, I'm not ready. There are a lot of people
he stinks you gotta get like, Yeah, I don't feel
that way about him.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
No, and I don't think they do either. Trying to
think who he needs.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
To be better than what he has been. But I'm
not ready to say, oh, he's just.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Awful, right right, And I wasn't ready to say that then,
I'm not ready to say it now. But boy, this
is a pivotal year. Yeah, I mean there's no question
about that. But that doesn't change what we thought of
him then? Are now? Who else is are we not
talking about? I mean, like the Dylan Cooks and Sharpings
and those guys probably are what they are at this point.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, you know, but she didn't really have them on
the roster at that point right before. I mean, yeah,
you didn't have those guys on your roster, right, I
mean you.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
Did find some dudes at Anderson, both Anderson's in a way,
one you drafted, one you found, and you're comfortable putting
them in games where you didn't know that about them before. Yeah,
I guess it's better now, slightly slightly Yeah, room for improvement, yeah,
well absolutely, depth concerns for me, Yeah, you know. I
(19:25):
mean they could go off the rails. Jones has a
bad year and Fraser Guitart like you.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Know, well, I mean what team isn't that There's no question.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
I mean it's a very thin position.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
You start losing tackles, you're in trouble big time. Looking
at the tight end position largely the same except Michael
Preuit swapped out for Donald Parum.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Maybe I'm a little less on Hayward. I mean, I'm
trying to be as nitpicky as possible. I'm definitely higher
on Washington.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Feel better about way better about Washington. I did a year.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
I thought he was one of the most improved players
on the team. I think he's His numbers will never
show it, but I think he's one of the harder
tight ends to play against. For opposing defensive coordinators across
the board, no matter what style you play.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Fry remove them the same one.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
I think. I don't think I've a way he's a
lot worse, he's a lot better. I think he is
what he is, and I think they're still untapp potential there. Yeah,
more over the middle passing would help him to I
mean I think schematically things could go his way. Parham
versus prew It, they're very different. Yeah, very different, very different.
(20:34):
I'm kind of excited to see the Parham usage or
can he block anybody? He's tall and skinny, like, I mean,
he's gonna have he's gonna struggle with the power edge guys. Yeah,
but he could be a getting away dude and he
can might. I don't know what they'll do with them.
I mean, prew It was more somewhat full backish move
all around, you know, so, I mean that's small potatoes though.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
At running back right now, you're looking at Jalm Warren,
Caleb Johnson, Kenneth Gamewell, Cordell Patterson. Last year going into
the season, Well, it was nausey Harris, Jaleen Warren, Quardell Patterson, Gamee.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Well's a nice bonus that you didn't have. It would
have been nice to have one more back as opposed
to some of the guys that are bringing back the
undrafted dudes. Johnson's an unknown, but I think I would
be higher on him now than I was Nausey then.
I'm not sure if I'm being fair to myself with that,
(21:33):
you know, I mean, sitting in La Trobe talking about
nause I mean, I wasn't saying bad things, you know.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
And that's the that's the conundrum with Naugy Harris. Right, Okay,
he went out and he put up four straight one
thousand yard seasons. Yeah, yeah, nobody else did that over
that time period. But it was also you know, kind
of high volume, thousand.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Hard fought yards and not a lot of big plays.
And right, I mean, he is what he is. And
if you told me Johnson this year would be as
good as Nausey last year, I think I'd go fish.
I'm actually hoping for better.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
As good at like somebody somebody brought that up on
the mess a real broad statement, you know, and they said, well,
you know, can he be? I said, look if if
he goes out and puts up over the next four years,
four thousand yard seasons, even if he just barely gets
to a thousand yards like nause did in a couple,
how did he get there?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
And said the eyeball test is important for me on
that was.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Did he get there on two hundred and twenty five carries?
Did it take him three hundred? Like there's a there's a.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Huge averaging four to three and breaking off some longer
runs I'm sure he'll face lighter boxes than Nausey did
to be in Nause's corn, right, he did not have
an easy go of it and did not. You would
hope Johnson has a better, more talented offensive line, certainly
more talented pass catchers to aid the running game. You're
(22:55):
two of the system. But I think Johnson has a
really good chance to be the better player for the Steelers, right,
you know, I'm with you. You throw a little gainwell
in there, helps you know. They didn't have that guy.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
And I don't know that Patterson makes this team.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I kind of don't think he will. But he was intriguing,
I guess a year ago, you know, yeah, I was
glad he was around, right, a third running back, clearly
a third running back with some gadgety stuff and didn't
really come to fruition.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Yeah. The quarterbacks coming out of camp last year, of course,
were Russell Wilson, Justin Fields, Kyle Allen. Right now it's
it's still Mason, Rudolph, will Howard, Skyler Thompson. I think
we can work on the assumption, yeah, that he who
shall not be named will be.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
But like Howard, I mean to really nerd out, I
mean Howard has more value than Allen. Yes, Thompson probably
has the least value. Yeah, I mean, if we're talking
about the bottom of the wrong guys, judging Rudolph, how
I feel about him now verse how I felt about
Wilson and Fields. Then I was pretty optimistic about those guys.
(24:05):
So I would give both them the nod over Rudolph,
but I'm really happy he's here at the moment, assuming
another piece drops, you know what I mean, Like, I'll
take the quarterback room with Rogers over that quarterback room.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, but I was.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
I had some optimism about both Fields and Wilson, you know.
I mean, it wasn't like these guys are gonna be
one and done. They're not worth investing in or anything.
I mean, I only broke camp. I agree what I'm
trying to think here, I agree. And Wilson at that
point had some injury stuff. I mean, he hadn't done much.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, moving over to the defense. Coming out of camp,
your defensive line was Larry Ogan, Jobi Kean, u Benton,
cam Hayward, Dean Lowry, Montrevius Adams, Isaiah Loudermilk, Logan Lee
was in the mix. In the mix Hurt. Now you're
looking at Derek Harmon, Keanu Benton, Cam Hayward, Isaiah Loudermilk
(24:58):
ya Ya Black, Daniel ca Dean Lowry, Logan Lee. We'll
see about some of the other guys there, Dominique Davis.
But I think those are.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
If we look at like guys top seven verse top
seven argument. So people listen probably remember I never say
anything bad about Cam Hayward, but coming out of camp,
I was worried. I'm like, is this the year he
gets old? I mean, he was coming off an injury
plague season. I didn't expect him to be an All
pro in twenty twenty four, you know, And now I'm
(25:32):
pretty sure he's an all pro. So my valuation, my
evaluation of Hayward then versus now, is much rosier now,
even though he's a year old. Yeah, I mean just
because the year he was coming off of at the
time wasn't like he was doing much in camp for
preseason either. It wasn't bull rushing guys into the club.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I mean he was taking that stuff, taking a lot
of days off.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
And yeah, even sight unseen, I'll take Harmon over Oroganjobi.
I think he'll make a decent player.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I think he'll make more plays.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, I mean even the rookie version verse an aging,
hard to keep on the field type guy. I'll take
harmon Lowry's Lowry. I like Benton a little more now
than then, but that was also expected. I mean like
I had high hopes and he basically fulfilled them so good.
(26:24):
I would say his name wrong. But the Patriot dude
they signed, he's another one, not like Parum. I put
him a part the tier or two above him as
a player, but I am kind of curious. Is he
gonna play nose? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
What?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I don't know what to make of him. So he's
kind of an incomplete for me. But if I'm comparing
him to louder Milk or Lowry, I like him probably
better now than I did those guys then. I was
an Adams fan and didn't last season didn't go his way.
(27:06):
I mean, two seasons ago I thought were really good.
I thought it was one of the more underrated Steelers.
So I felt really good about him leaving training camp,
and that one didn't really come to fruition. Injuries had
something to do with it. Lee's just like the Roman
Wilson conversation.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Yeah, you just don't know we missing anyone. I think
that's it.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
I would lean towards now, I think so. I mean,
I feel so much different. Boy Cam, I didn't think
he was you know, I mean it was unbelievable last year. Yeah,
where I.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Thought, no, this might be the end outside linebacker. Last
year you had what high Smith still had the Marvin
Lee al At that point.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I me, he's needs to be factored into this conversation somehow.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, and Nick Krbick, where your four linebacker outside backers
coming out of camp basically, and now it looks a
little different. You get Watt and high Smith. You also
have Herbig. Has our opinion on those three changed at all? No,
not a bit, and there are all one years. Might
feel better about Herbig. I thought Herbig was better in
year two than he had been in year one.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, as I say, I mean he might be. If
we're grading on one hundred scale, he may have went
from an eighty four to an eighty six, you know
what I mean. Where the other two don't change at all.
It wasn't like, boy, they're a year older, you're slower.
I don't see that.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
So that's kind of a wash lel still saint. No same.
Then you've added Jeremiah Moon and Jack Sawyer to the
mix as well.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
There just wasn't a Sawyer last year. Yeah, you had
to go trade for a Sawyer. Yeah yeah, yeah, So
better now?
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Okay? Insideline by player, right, Yeah, Queen, Patrick Wilson or
Peyton Wilson, I should say, Cole Holcomb, Malie Harrison, Mark Robinson.
You got Devin Harper and Carson Brunner there as well.
Last year coming out of camp it was Queen and
Landon Roberts, Peyton Wilson, Mark Robinson and Tyler Matakaevich.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Okay, so this isn't the way we should do it,
but I prefer Roberts to Harrison as a linebacker. Okay,
but I think as currently constructed, Harrison's now you're four,
where Roberts was your two or three. Right, So if
we look at the depth chart, if we rank them
one through four, Roberts is really fighting Holcombe or Wilson,
(29:28):
you know what I mean? And I feel better about
Wilson now than then, and I think he's ready to
be not just a nickel dime. I may have had,
I may have had higher hopes for Queen then than now.
I'm not saying he had a bad year, but I
thought he might be a top five he was coming
off a Pro Bowl with the Ravens. I'd probably had
(29:50):
a higher grade. I did have a higher grade on
him then than now. It doesn't mean he can't get
back to that, but I thought he might be a
top five linebacker and he wasn't a top five linebacker.
I still think Holcomb's good. I mean, if Holkom's are three,
it's not bad, and it's not bad at all?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Right bad? And I you know, to me, Carson Brunner
is a younger, faster version of Mattakeaevich.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah that's gonna be a wash. Mark Robinson may or
may not be here, but that's a wash too. Yeah,
he's gotten a little better on defense too. I mean
he's a lifetime special teamer probably probably. But do you
feel better about your top three today than then? I
feel different, tops.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
I'd feel a lot better about Wilson now than I
did going in. I had hopes for Wilson last year. Yeah,
now I've actually seen what it looks like, and.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
So I think's good. Let phrase it this way. Twenty
twenty four, Queen Wilson slash Roberts is your top three.
I think that's about equal to twenty twenty five. Queen
better Wilson Holkum, who I think is going to be
backing up both guys. Yeah, and you didn't have a Harrison,
(31:04):
And you don't compare Harrison to Roberts. You compare him
to the number four, Yeah, which is a special team,
which was Mark Robbins. This is Robinson. Now he's a five. Yeah,
so you gained a spot on the death charter mouth,
you know what I mean. Yeah, there's like one more
body there too. Yeah, so I guess now, but i'd
like to see Queens. Yeah, Queen.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Could be better at cornerback. Going into last season, it
was Dante Jackson, Joey Porter Jr. Corey Trice, Darius Rush
with Beanie Bishop as the nickel. Yeah, now you're looking
at Darius Slay, Joey Porter Jr. Corey Trice, James Pierre
who they added back after the season started last year,
(31:47):
Kyler McMichael, Cameron McCutcheon, Sebastian castro Or, I'm sorry, Brandon Eccles,
and then.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
You've got and Bishop as well. It's close. I mean
Porter's really good.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Porter's very good, and this idea that he somehow had
a down season last year, I don't get.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I wasn't gonna phrase it that way, but I was
going to phrase it that when we broke camp, I
thought maybe he was going to be a top five corner. Sure,
and he's just really good and not that yet. But
that doesn't like hurt his grade or make me worry
about him.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
We didn't know anything about Trice going into last year.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
That's what I say is I think just a little
more knowledge is good. Yeah, because he was a total
one now total one, and he was just like a
seven round pick version.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, he hadn't played. If we could be.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Fair to ourselves, what was our thoughts on Jackson then
versus Lay Now?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I thought Jackson was going to be good. I thought
he better than he was, to be honest, Yeah, I
think that's fair.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, but Slay's had a way better career.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Slave's had a ridiculously better career.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
I mean, Slay didn't have his best year last year,
but it was still a good year, and it's a
better year than Jackson ever had. Yeah, So I'll take
my chances with an older Sleigh than the version of
Jackson we were going into with and.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I think what you didn't have last year is Echols.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
I'm saying Echles is the bonus prize.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna you know, Eccles over
a guy like Darius Rush, who I liked Darius.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
We were kind of excited about him a little bit.
But I remember talking about Rush and Trice then like.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
The they might be the answer.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, maybe, who knows? You know they they're free. You
have one first seven round pick when he picked up
for nothing.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
You know way more now about Trice than you did
then then. Yeah, Rush, I don't even know if he's
in the NFL right now.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I'm not sure if he is or definitely isn't guaranteed
to make a team. Then right here, and.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Bishop played a lot for you. Played better than I
thought he would, played better than he thought.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
I mean he was we broke camp as an undrafted
free agent, making the team as one of the last
guys on the roster, and he was more than that. Yeah,
so better now?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Okay, safety had Deshaun Elliott, making Fitzpatrick, Miles, Kellerbrew Wan Thornhill.
This is what you have now with Sebastian Castro and
Joshua Bledsoe also on that roster. Last year it was Elliott, Fitzpatrick,
Miles Kellerbrew, Demonte Kaz and Jalen Elliott breaking Camp.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
So if we go back to like the Queen conversation.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
I had no idea what to expect from Elliott, right,
I think he was better, way.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Exceeded and I thought he was gonna Yeah. I'm like, oh,
that's a nice pick up. He looks like an okay starter. Yeah,
well he's like really good now.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
You know.
Speaker 3 (34:36):
So I feel way better about that player than I
did that. I don't think any differently a Manko, No,
I really don't, and I don't care what the not
to say or any of that. I think he is
one of the best safeties in the league.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
And I like I like Thornhill's fit better than Kz's fit.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
I think by a tier or two. I mean, like,
I really don't even think that's close.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
And KZ was fine.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
He's we're talking.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
About not a bad player safety, But I didn't want
to have to play him in the box. No, And
as I can, I can do either with Thornhill and
feel fine.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Thorn Hill's more talented. Yeah, he's taller, he's longer, he's faster,
he's more versatile. I don't know if he's as good
as tackler, but if he's your third safety, that's a positive.
Where Casey's not on a team right now. Yeah, Kilbrew's
the same. Didn't have some hope for Watts. Yeah, I
mean that's an unfortunate one. You know, that was something
(35:29):
I was starting.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Wasn't on the roster when the season started last year.
He was already hurt.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
Oh okay, so he doesn't he didn't count right, right, right,
And unfortunately, when we have the same conversation the day
camp breaks in Latrobe, three or four of these dudes
are gonna get hurt too.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
You know, it's easier to say it now because.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Again that's why you build this depth.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah yeah, yeah, but they might add another body or
two two yeah, so preferably a quarterback, but in addition to.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
In addition to so that's what you're looking at at
that point. Specialists are better now. Boz is even better
than I thought he was. Like, I think he might
be the best kicker in the league. I think that
is the case.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Yeah, I was really excited about Johnston. Johnston but he's
gonna be back. He's back, right, right. I assume he's
still the same guy. Ye, right, right. So there's that
weightman floating around who's an NFL punner.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah. So anyways, that was just an interesting little aside there.
Let's get to another break. He is the Matt Williamson
feeling better about the Steelers roster today than going into
last season. I'm Dale Lollie. You're listening to the Drive
here on the Steelers Audio Network.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt Williamsons on
your twenty four to seven home of the Black and
Gold Steelers Nation Radio.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And welcome back. I am Dale Lolli. He is the
Matt Williamson and the mattow was telling you after Friday's show.
I got got back home and I've been trying. I've
been in contact with the University of Iowa. I'm working
on some stories on some of the draft picks. And
I made the big ask. Can I get Coach Farrence
(37:11):
on the phone?
Speaker 3 (37:11):
Nice? Nice and hometown guy.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
You know, six o'clock on Friday, I get a call.
I missed it the first time from Iowa. Look at it.
I listened to my to the message. I'm like, oh,
Kirk Ference, I missed nice school. So I started texting
him back. Well, he was texting me at the same time.
We both hit sended at the same time, and immediately
my phone rings. It's Kirk Ferrence. Cool and we were
(37:36):
talking about it. We're just chatting, you know, before we
started the interview, and he's like, yeah, you know, I
started my career eighty one. Is a grad assistant grat
assistant at PITT. I said, I know how old is he?
Briefly grad assistant at PITT in eighty one. He's got
to be graduate high school, mid seventies, mid seventies sometime.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, okay, so she's probably like fifteen sixteen years older
than me. Yeah, okay, almost seventy.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
But the Pitt grad assistant job.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
It's a breeding ground, dude. There's been some pretty prominent dudes.
I mean, John Gruden. I'm trying to think who's some
of the other ones that really went on to big things.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Wanstat, Frank Signetti Junior was a grad assistant.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, I was at Ben McAdoo who end up being
the head coach for the Giants. Joe Moorehead was before me.
He was he's offense. He's the head coach at Akron now,
but he was offensive coordinator at Penn State, goes zips
and uh it did some big things at Oregon too.
I know I'm missing a ton of them.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
There's been a bunch and you can't necessarily find that
information anywhere because right I don't really keep track of
the grad assistance.
Speaker 3 (38:46):
But that's a pretty long list. I mean, I'm well
down the most successful by about a bazillion. Well one
though is Steelers new linebacker coach McCurley, Scott Curly. Mcurley,
he's got and I overlapped briefly there him as a player,
and then he'd also gad a pit too. So yeah,
it's a breeding ground.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
For those guys have all gone on to great things.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
And one of these things is not like the other.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
You're here with me, here we sit doing even better things.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Oh yeah, So what did coach Farns have to say? Oh?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
We just you know, I talked about I'm sure talk
about allree of the draft. We talked about Sebastian Casher.
We also talked about Logan Lee. Okay, And you know
the thing that I commented to him about it was Like,
the interesting thing about all four of those guys, none
of them transferred. Yeah, they were all Iowa guys from
the start that they transfer, No, they were all Iowa
(39:35):
guys the whole time. It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
I think that's actually kind of an Iowa thing. And the
more I think about it is even like their most
recent guys weren't three different schools.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
They haven't had a quarterback for It's really kind of
if you start looking at the Steelers draft class as
a whole. Swear was an Ohio State guy from from
from the start. Harmon even though he transferred, he didn't
want to transfer, right until his mom said no, go ahead.
He wanted to stay at home.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yeah. Yeah, stenuating circumstances.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Right, or he would have just stayed in Michigan State.
And even Howard, he was a grad transfer.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Yeah, yeah, he spent four.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Years at k State. He did it, He graduated, He
did his time there, his time there.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
That's interesting. Brunar didn't.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Brunar didn't transfer, And even even the Kent.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
The Caleb Johnson Kent didn't.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Right, they were all guys that stayed at once pretty
much at one school the whole way through other than
you know, Howard transferring and Harmon transferring. That was it.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
McCormick could have many times. I'm just trying to Yeah,
I mean kind of putting some extra effort into OMAR
draft trends. You know. Now we have three of them,
and the three big ones are big schools in for visits,
high spark guys, you know, workout numbers, and then someone
corrected me and are like, you might want to throw
national champions on there too. He's drafted a lot of
(40:56):
national champions, including two this year. But I wonder if
non trans answers is also somewhat of a trend.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Somewhat of a train. I get guys that's spent a
long time, Like, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
They compared to other thirty one teams.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah, I don't know that the guys that are jumping
around left and right all the time, if I were,
if I were looking at that, I don't know that
I would be as high on them. Like I get
you transfer once, maybe the coach coach left or something
that's leav incarnate word right, Well that's what happened, Like
Walter Nolan left A and M when the coach left. Okay,
(41:32):
I get it. I always felt the guy who recruited that,
the guy who recruited you there is gone. All right,
I'm going to go somewhere else. I mean, by the.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
Days I was old school. You go in there, he
promise the parents, we're here forever. We want your kid
to graduate. And then the coach leaves next year, you know.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, the guys who transfer like three or four times
in their career because they're chasing a dollar.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Yeah, that part I don't love.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
And again, I mean we've talked about this too. Scoutings
changed so much that you go back to the school
that they left. Are they always going to talk well
about you if you're not there, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Probably not?
Speaker 3 (42:03):
Probably not? Ye, you know. Or you have more teammates,
you have more coaches, you have more people you interact with.
Like in the coaching world, getting fired isn't necessarily bad
because then you get to work with the whole new
twelve guys or fifteen guys, assuming you get hired again.
I hired again, and I actually never tried to be honest.
But you know, getting fired wasn't necessarily bad. It's just networking, right,
(42:25):
But networking could be bad in these instances too, like
he was here for the money and he took off
in one year to go to Ohio State win national championship,
right right, I don't want a mercenary.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
And I just thought that was interesting. Yeah, it hit
me when I was talking to him. We started talking
about all four of those guys. I'm like, those guys
were all.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Homegrown, all homegrown. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
So anyways, let's get to a break. That's going to
do it for our number one of the drive here
on the Steelers Audio Network. Matt and I will be
back with our number two right after this
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