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November 13, 2023 • 46 mins
Rob King, Matt Williamson, and Craig Wolfley break down the Steelers' successful Sunday afternoon against the Packers.

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Speaker 1 (00:11):
This is the Point After presented by Parks Casino. Is
today your Lucky Day bet Parks by Brian Patton and Associates.
It's all about the benefits and by this Steelers Pro
Shop get it direct from the team at shop dot
Steelers dot com. Alongside Craig Wolfley and Matt Williams, and
I'm Rob King. Thanks very much for being with us
on Steelers Nation Radio and one oh two point five DVE.

(00:33):
It's time for a look back segment brought to you
by Brian Patton and Associates. It's all about the benefits
and it's all about another victory for the Steelers. Wolf
twenty three to nineteen, they improved a six and three
on the season, their eighth consecutive victory in a one
score game.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
And never has it looked so beautiful, you know what
I mean. I'm telling you six and three looks so
much better than five and four or even worse. And
I know there's some people who got to and a
ker fluffo about the fact it's not going exactly according
to plan as you would plan it per se. But
you know what, the more you win, the greedier you get,

(01:10):
and winning becomes a habit and somehow Someway this group
of guys just fosters away to pull together punch it out,
you know, tape up those knuckles and punch it out
again and keep doing it over and over again without question.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
And thirteen and five in their last eighteen games.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
I mean that's kind of mind boggling. I mean, that's
like best in the league's hoops, you know, you know, right,
it's like running away with the division type stuff. Then
I'm sure Wolf won't fight me on this. I mean,
it all starts with the big guys, you know. And
I think coach Somelmons had something to say about that
in the press conference, you know, that was commending the
three hundred pounders. Absolute. That is where it's at, man,

(01:49):
you know, both sides of the ball. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
It's interesting. I was looking at this team, and you know,
last week we're talking about some individual efforts, Like I thought,
Alex Highsmith was just a dominant force, you know, just
dominated that game and made things easier for the front
and was a big part of the reason that they
beat the Titans. Looking at this game, I didn't really
there wasn't really any one player where I thought Wow,

(02:12):
what a heroic effort by that guy. But I think, well,
for me, the unit that Matt just talked about, that
offensive line. That and I don't want to take any
away from the two running backs, and I'm sure we'll
talk about Jalen Warren and Najie Harris, but I thought
the offensive line not only in run blocking but in
pass blocking. And when Green Bay seemed to go more
to a we're going to put eight nine guys in

(02:35):
the box in the second half, right, and this year
there were still able to run and still able to
protect Kenny Pickett. I thought that was an impressive job
by that front group.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
It was. It was a very together group, they thought.
Is one. You watched the move whether it was double teams,
they moved the double team first before some guy came off.
They did the things that they hadn't been doing previously,
and you know, earlier in the season, but the basic
line was, look, if you're in the people moving business,
you got to be moving people. If you're not, you're
just fooling yourself, Okay, And that's been the problem earlier

(03:06):
in the year. They know what they're doing, but their
technique or the combination of two guys doing whatever they
need to do was not working out. They got more
symbiotic in their gorge, what have you. They were able
to double team. They ran the traps very nice. I
love the traps. Oh kid zeus. You know you watch
big Broader pull and come down the line and he
t boned somebody and they know they've been t boned,

(03:28):
you know. I mean that's what you want. You want
some guys that are butt kickers. I've got to tell
you a couple occasions, James Daniels, what he did to
some of those packers could be against the law. Yeah, well,
I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
And so give me a year overview Matt on the
offensive line before I ask some specific questions you guys
as well.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
It's something we've mentioned the last couple of weeks, but
you're seeing it, as Wolf mentioned. A lot more pulling,
a lot more athleticism, getting out in space. And I
think the guards have really become a top tier group
of guards. And Jones looks like a first round pick.
I mean, I think it's easy just to say you
put Jones in a right tackle and now the line's fixed.
I mean, he sure helps. He's very, very impressive. But

(04:11):
I think it's a marriage of scheme back coaches. Everything
you read and here in your facility is nause and
warre and go to the line. What do you guys like?
You know, the coaches are asking and there's a lot
of communication of everybody getting on the same page of
the plays that everyone's most comfortable with, and a lot
of it's with design movement with the line. And I

(04:31):
want to throw Darnad Washington in the mix too. I
mean he's effective and we put those two Georgia guys
next to each other. That's a lot of promise there
going forward.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, and I was going to ask you about the
different style because it does seem like a little more
straight line. It does seem like a little less I
don't know, it just seems more aggressive. What the offensive
line is doing.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Well, I think one of the things it's occurring right now,
they ran the outside zone better. They did a lot
more pitches and Matt, you probably could answer that more
through the fact. I mean where they were pitching wide.
But those guys they cut back in a way that
I don't know. I mean, it just it looked like
Naji was seeing the second level and making some great choices,

(05:13):
you know, where he'd start wide with the pitch and
then take that pitch and cut back. Jalen Warren always able. Yeah,
And I just thought even with the outside zones, I
thought they did a better job of being patient, let
the guys work their magic up front, which is hauling
people right, and then once they moved the people, they
made their cut and choice, and I thought they finished

(05:34):
well overall as a group. I mean, guys trying to
block to the whistle. Ye, their ball carriers are both
hard to get on the ground. Yeah, I mean they
just are in a different way. And just want to
say one more thing about how Wolf was talking about.
We've seen through Nausey's career a lot of times where
he's getting contact before he can really get his feet moving.
And I do think with some of the wider stuff,
he's at least an object in motion remaining in motion,

(05:56):
you know, as opposed to that's like one of them
physics things.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
I think I believe that he was number one or
way up there with the amount of tackles he had
to break last year to get to the line of scrimmage, right,
So that can't be discounted. Now, obviously that happened less
and less in that period of time that you're talking about, Matt.
When you talk about the record in the last eighteen games,
that goes to last year's by that's when they started
running the ball better. This year's bye is when they

(06:21):
also started running the ball better. Coincidentally, lobby the NFL
for a week two by next year or maybe week one.
Why even let one game get away? You know, so
Broderick Jones blocking like a first round pick. And you
know when you talk about, you know, development as a whole,
like you know, we wanted the offense. All of us

(06:42):
wanted the offense to develop as a whole. So you you,
what is happening right now looks very much like what
was happening last year when you went seven and two
after the bye. So the thought was, boy, if you
can put some better games offensively throwing the ball into
that mix, now you elevate the whole. You're never gonna
be maybe with this style. If you're going to have

(07:03):
a run heavy team, you're never gonna score forty, but
you're gonna control the clock. You're gonna have the capacity,
the ability to put the ball in the air and
score points and make big plays in the passing game.
That's what we all thought was gonna happen with the evolution.
That is obviously not happen, but it doesn't mean that
there isn't some evolution happening. So the running game has evolved.

(07:24):
Broderick Jones has evolved as a player. He has gone
from a guy who wasn't starting to who is now
starting and has looked impressive through two games. So we
all wanted to go from zero to sixty, and we
hope it does get to sixty. But in the meantime,
you know, there are a couple of improvements that have
happened along the way here offensively Wolf and I think
and you could throw Darnell Washington too, that mix in

(07:46):
the blocking game, Okase, he's good for a reception a game.
It seems like a sort of a men's vitamin one
a day, right, But that'll grow, that'll.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Grow, That's going to grow. Look, one of the important
aspects about his ability is his blocking. You can't just
bring them in to block, right because.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
They's just like you can't bring in Calvin Austin to
run a reverse.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Absolutely, so, at some point in time, as he matures
and becomes more and more a part of the offense.
He's gonna see some pigskins coming his way. You know,
But you said earlier, I'm about evolving or not evolving,
is it or is it not? Now? Wait a minute.
This morning we talked and you read some stats on
Big Ben. Right, his yardage buck fifty buck, thirty five bucks,

(08:28):
seventy stuff like that. Right, That whole offense and the
whole golden jacketed to be person of Big Ben came
about throughout the eighteen years. That offense grew year by
year by year. And the defense, you know, you try
to still have that high voltage defense. But listen, if

(08:49):
you get this running game going, now you're suddenly looking
how much has Kenny got to do? Well, sometimes you
got to do more, Sometimes you got to do less,
because if the running game hits at two oh five,
there's not a lot you gotta do throwing the pigskin, right,
you know what I mean, It's going to be tampered down,
no doubt. On the other hand, some days you gotta
be throwing that thing all over the place because the
running game just isn't going. And to me, in my mind,

(09:11):
now wait a minute, this is starting to look a
little like with Big Ben in his early years, the
running game coming up in the passing game, you don't
fluctuate it according to what you need.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Okay, So you're jumping me back to this morning, and
I'm going to jump back to something you just said
after I jump back to this morning. But I want
to jump on now jumping here, Hang on a second,
I want to get back to I want to get
back to one of your points about throwing the ball
over the field. Okay, but Matt, these are the numbers
that Wolf was referring to. And for those that didn't
listen this morning, so these numbers, these sound like Kenny

(09:42):
Pickett numbers like twelve for twenty one, seventy six, twelve
for twenty two, one hundred and sixty three, and it's
one hundred and sixty four, two thirty one, one ninety three,
one ninety six, one eighty three, one thirty four, one
thirty eight, one thirty one, two twenty one, one forty four.
Those are the first thirteen starts Roethlisberger's careers and his
passing yardist numbers. So those sounds you might think, Okay,

(10:05):
that sounds like Kenny Pickett's numbers starting, but it does,
and now different teams for those people about to be like, well,
hang on a second now, And I'm not comparing Kenny
Pickett to.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Ben roethlis Stop, but am not.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
I'm not doing that. Okay, Ben Roethlisberger is going to
be fitted for a gold jacket, A well, does your
real jacket very soon. He's won, he won two Super Bowls.
He's an iconic figure, he's a Hall of Famer, he's
all that. I'm not comparing Kenny Pickett to him. I'm
comparing what a team needs to do to win the
game in front of them. Yes, you want to develop,

(10:44):
but the first order of business is winning the game.
Ask any player, would you rather lose pretty or win ugly?
You'd rather win ugly. And it hasn't always really been
that pretty here winning although the last couple of weeks,
if you like running the ball and I like running
the ball, well it's been pretty to watch. That part
has been one hundred.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
I mean Brady started his career the same way. I
mean that doesn't mean he's a turn on the Brady
and Ben reincardinated, of course not. But that's a great
way to bring a young quarterback along. I mean, it's
just adjusting to the NFL as a rookie quarterback is
really really difficult. As a young quarterback. People are stubbing
their toes all over the NFL. If you can ask

(11:23):
less of him, that's great. Now, maybe he doesn't progress
as fast as he would if he was thrown in
the deep end, you know, I mean instead of just
waiting in slowly. But the whole, the whole, you know,
job here is to win football.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yes, it's not you know, you're not.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
You didn't.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
You didn't take the field against San Francisco thinking Okay,
let's let's spend the next eighteen weeks evolving Kenny Pickett.

Speaker 3 (11:46):
Right, that's not goal number one.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
No, we're going to spend the next eighteen weeks winning
as many games. He's going to be long for the journey.
Now that having been said, we have not seen the
ability to fling the ball all over the field. Have
mentioned at it. Sometimes it just feels inevitable that you
are going and it may happen in the next couple weeks.
It may not happen, but it feels inevitable that at

(12:10):
some point you're going to need to throw the football
you're going to need to score twenty six twenty eight
points even if you're running the ball to win a game.
We have not seen this Yeers be able to do that.
There's been a couple of times where they've probably had
to do it. San Francisco would have been a good
game to do that against. Houston would have been a
good team to do that against, and it didn't happen

(12:30):
in any other one of those instances. So you still
want to see that part of the evolution because it's
hard for me to imagine the team, you know, as
it stands now, with that lack of ability to throw
the ball all over the field being an absolute Super
Bowl contender like that. That's a big thing on the
resume that I think still has to be filled them
in the resume.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
No question about it. And I like the weapons, the
past catchers and even points gain point totals aside. I
mean getting to twenty five to twenty eight, thirty whatever,
Inevitably it's gonna be thirty eight or inevitably you're going
to have to run a two minute drill at the
end of a half where it's passed past fastest past
and the whole stadium knows you're gonna throw. I mean,
you need to be able to convert in those situations

(13:12):
at least league average, I mean, at a minimum. But
I mean, I think it is safe to say, and
I felt this way last year that I now trust
the run game. I mean, I don't trust the past
game yet, but the foundation that they poured last year
of the house I think is still very much intact.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Well, here's the thing that I go over and over all. Right,
we talked about Kenny and the clutch gene. That thing
was apparent last year. It was apparent on the December
twenty fourth Immaculate Conception game where it was fifty years
in the making, and you don't want to be the
guy that botched the fifty years in the making rematch,

(13:54):
so to speak. Kenny executed a last minute drive down
the field through the ball for a touch down right
win the game we've seen him bring fourth quarter is
right now. Because of the fact he is able to
marshal his resources in such a way that he is
capable of bringing about a win late in the game,
I believe the other stuff is going to fall in line.

(14:15):
I really do. There's something about superior athletes in a
situation where the pressure is huge, the stage is ginormous,
and yet they're able to perform like they're in the backyard.
And some guys rise to it, some guys fall below it.
I don't know what the thing is, but it happens.
So just Kenny rises to it.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Just the Green Bay game specifically, the Packers going into
that game were like the most run on defense in
the league, you know, like teams are attacking them on
the ground, which married really well with what exactly the
Steelers wanted to do, you know, like they didn't really
ask Kenny to do a lot. I don't It's kind
of a chicken or egg thing. Did they not ask
him to do a lot because he didn't have to
and the game is going as they wanted?

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Right?

Speaker 3 (14:56):
Or because I don't think he can right? You know,
exactly we don't know those answers. It's not necessarily one
or the other.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Right, And so some good things happening. The biggest thing
happening the Steelers are six and three after nine games.
That's an awfully good thing happening. We've got plenty more
to come on the point after when we continue on
Steelers Nation Radio and one O two point five dve.

(15:27):
This is the point after presented by Parks Casino. Is
today your Lucky Day at Parks by Brian Patton and associates.
It's all about the benefits and by the Steelers Pro Shop.
Get it direct from the team at shop dot Steelers
dot com. We are adding the point after with Craig Wolfley,
with Matt Williams and I'm rob king big playing this game.

(15:48):
The Raiders not adding the point after Patrick Peterson with
the block of that extra point. You know we were
talking about this. I was talking about Charlie Batch and
I talked about with you and Max this morning. Think
about it, right, that doesn't happen routine. It's an extra
point goes through. Does is that ball forced into the
end zone, you know, by luck or by love because

(16:09):
they need the touchdown the one that's battered by Peterson
and picked off by Neil Or do they maybe just
played a little more conservative kick the field goal that
ties the game because it would have been a three
point game instead of a four point game. Now in
that last ride they kicked the winning field goal right
like how And of course the game may have been
called differently run, But that was a huge play in

(16:29):
that game. The lack of the point after.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
I always think it's changes the flow of the game dramatically,
just the coach's mindset, the play calling. Should we go
for two on the next touchdown to make up for
it and then you're down two instead of one? You know,
I mean like there is a butterfly effect there. I mean,
we'll never know the answer, but I do think it's
a valid question. It was a huge play in the game.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
You know what's interesting They ran that play in the
third quarter Christian Watson and Pat Pete down the sideline
mono we mono and it was a overthrow. But I
gotta believe some way, somehow, Pat Peter, you know, being
the vet, stuck that in his gorge somewhere and when
that critical time came in the fourth quarter when they

(17:10):
went with that same route along the sidelines there, I mean,
he made the play, just made the play. It was
It was awesome, you know, I mean it was This
is what you bring a guy like Patrick Peterson in
for no guy for a huge moment like that and
having the veteran mindset to be able to store a
play away and go maybe they might be coming back

(17:30):
to this and then to execute in the crucial moments
where he doesn't slam dunk the pass, he tips it
knowing that there's another half safety high that could possibly
make a play. Didn't know Keana was there, but the
possibility existed that he would be there, and he opened palms.
That just taps it in. Man, do you that's that's
Hall of fame thinking right there and hall of fame playing.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, spectacular play a couple of things, And I did
you know, I did mention that I wanted to talk
about the running backs a little bit. Loved the one
two punch of Nagy and Jalen Warren, who had his
first hundred yard game average seven point eight yards per
carry after going eleven for eighty eight and averaging eight
point eight. So he's regrestling slightly. Oh god, no, but

(18:14):
he's like I just it's hard not to love the way,
the sort of the recklessness of the way he runs.
And he just he's really throughout his career, evinced no
interest in being tackled. Have you noticed that? I mean,
like he he I mean, what a fighter he is
out there.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
You know, he's got no concern for his own safety
or anyone else.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
No, you know, he really doesn't.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
He's kind of like Ricochet Rabbit, you know, you know
what I mean, he just doesn't like I mean, he
does a great job. And Matt, you know what I'm
talking about. When you watch him, he just refuses to
go down in the normal way. I mean, he's gonna
jump over, he's gonna bang off here, he's gonna whatever.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
You know, no question, I think both those guys are
difficult to tackle in a very different way. You see
nause you with a lot of upper body stuff swatting
guys and you know that type of thing. He's a big,
strong human being where Warren is lower to the ground.
I love the term foot frequency. He has great foot frequency.
Those feet never stop. I mean it's like Sonic the Hedgehog.

(19:14):
It's more and he's low and there's not a lot
to hit, and he's tenacious.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
We got Sonic and chet Rabbit.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
And by the way.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
I may have gone the rest of my life without
remembering Ricochet Rabbit. So thank you well a little.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
I have no clue that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
I think I think we just drew an age line
through this room.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
I was watching.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
And I and you know what, people that are calling
for one or the other. Why would you change this duo?
It's so effective. I mean, just keep doing it right.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
It's converted me. I was a three down back guy.
I really was. I was like, run him until the
wheels fall off, that sort of thing. But then it's
it's opened my eyes to seeing a better relationship between
the two because you have a difference in what they're
capable of doing, and they have just been complimentary and
totally with what they're doing. And man, don't mess with success.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
And I've taken too, And I wish I could do
all three things at once. I can do one thing
at a time. I'm a guy. You know our wives
can do multiple things. We can all do one thing
at a time. So I watched some of the game
on TV. I listened to some of the game in
the radio, and then I watched some of the game
in person from the press box. That's kind of my
routine so I get a feel of what are the

(20:34):
national broadcasters talking about? What are you guys talking about?
Wolf and the call. One of my favorite parts of
that call, You guys went down to Max Starks and
Max talked about nodging Jalen, celebrating together, then going to
the offensive line and celebrating with the offensive line. I
was so glad I heard that part of the broadcast
because I think it just again when we talk about

(20:56):
this mentality of just finding a way to win, and
the cohesive and the being together in the fourth quarter heroics,
I think that's that's just a manifestation of that sort
of mentality when you have guys doing that, or maybe
it's the other way around. Maybe that mentality leads to
that and breeds that sort of success late in games.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well, I think if you put down the pride factor,
if you put away the me, then you start to
think about other things that are more important, such as
the we you know, the team, other people, and all
of a sudden you're like, you know what's more important
than my success is our our success. And then you
start to think, you know, if splitting reps is better

(21:33):
for us, then we need to split those reps. And
I'm going to push Jalen, and Jalen's gonna look at
Nage and say, I'm going to push you to do
the very best that you can. Now you've got something cooking, baby,
you got you got team effort in there. You got
something special. Because if you don't. If you got guys
that are saying, hey, where's my you know, where's my reps? Here?
Where's my you know? And thinking for themselves, it creates

(21:55):
division and splinters. Don't want that. What you've got are
two guys right now that are complimentary to each other,
and I think they pushed each other in a very
positive way. And I think all you're going to do
is get success going forward from these two.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
Yeah, and they're both well rounded backs. It's not just
you're here on third down anymore and you're here to
do this. It's you know, you often mentioned it with Austin.
You can't have a tell when one comes out, you're
going to really lean in one direction. It's certainly not
the case at all. And I brought it up earlier
in the show. It sounds like there's a lot of
communication between coaching staff, blockers and ball carriers. What do

(22:30):
you guys like?

Speaker 2 (22:31):
What do we like?

Speaker 3 (22:32):
And you would think that's commonplace, but it isn't. You
get in your routine, you go in your running back room,
you go out in the field, you get dressed, you
go home. Maybe you don't have those conversations and oh,
by the way, I think mat Canada being on the
sideline has something to do with that too, it, you know,
like Nauje Harris said something about it after the game
that hey, we scored and I forgot he was down there.

(22:52):
He came over in high five to me and I
gave a hug, you know, like just add to it.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
By the way, brilliant second straight game. Of course, they
scored a both drives.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
All three.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
I think again on the CBS broadcast, I think was
as they said two thousand ear maybe it was your
broadcast twenty eighteen was the last time they had two
opening drive touchdowns to start a game something like that. Anyway, regardless,
who are you talking about it? I loved I loved
to drive, and I loved the play calling. Loved it.

(23:25):
I just thought it was great. I thought, you know,
they ran them so in that first drive. And I'll
lead to what I didn't like about it. But in
the first drive, you established a run, you got Kenny
some short, easy throws, you got him on the move
a little bit, you got him in a rhythm. I
thought everything was perfect about what they executed on that

(23:47):
opening drive. I thought it was beautifully called and beautifully executed.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
You know. The first thing I'll say is number one
is we'll go a little because the outlaw is saying
the national anthem, right. So number one thing I think
positivity is that the Kenny's not seeing ghost riders in
the sky. Okay, very nice. What I'm saying is that,
you know, he had a propensity over a couple of
weeks where he starts to see something flash and he
starts moving not having to move, and so I think

(24:12):
he's arresting that and doing a good job of that.
Second of all is as I look at the what
he does when he ran for a couple of first downs,
I think it changes the dynamics of the offense so
much I want.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
To say more of it. Yes, he did it once
at the end of the game, and it was crucial.
He's going to.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
What's the what's the stat Matt, Come on, he was
going into that game. He was only scrambling more than
like Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, older pocket passers. There was
one other name which I forget, but the same type
of quarterback, which I think he's selling himself short. Yeah,
I mean, like what he brings to the table is
hard to defend. He's a very twitchy athlete with his feet,

(24:56):
and it can you know, it's a lot of first
downs you leave on the field by not scrambling.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
And that's what I think early on too, is is
going to make him better early on because you get
loosened up.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
Now.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
I don't know what it's like to be a quarterback
other than the time I got busted for parking to
my high school coaches parking spot and I had to
be quarterback for a blitz drill. I could take the ball,
I couldn't throw it and I couldn't give it to anybody,
which you know what that means. It's a doggy pile, right,
which I got palpitated in. But the point is, you know,
the thing about it is you've got to be able

(25:27):
to use your feet and get in that groove. And
I think a little bit early on for him taking
a little bit of a hit and you know, sliding
or whatever, I think it's going to help loosen him
up and get him going in the first half, early
in the in the first quarter.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
So that is one thing I want to see more of.
And the other thing that I thought to my mile
complained about the drive because I thought, you know, you're
trying to think along like what are they doing here?
And I was like, okay, so now that they've established
the edges in the passing game, they're going to attack
him addle of the field in the passing game. Let's
just put it this way. No need to reside the

(26:01):
middle of actatuer Stadium field. Zero passes between the ashes.
Zero Oh the one. Come on, we talked, I'm not
giving it. I'm not giving it to you. I think
I think pickings might have been outside of the hats.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
I mean it's close enough, but I.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Thought, okay, so you've loosened them up. Now you're going
to attack the middle of the field, and now you
become equally you become really dangerous to defend. Not only that,
there were a couple of throws and I think they
were in the third quarter, one out of the flat
where I mean Kenny was lucky that wasn't picked off.
I think it was to Deontay Johnson, and then another
one to I think it was either Hayward or or

(26:40):
Warren coming out of the backfield, also in the flat
where it was like predetermined, I'm gonna throw it there,
and both balls were almost picked off. One of the last.
The second one should have been picked off, and if
it was, that's probably a pick six the other way.
I just I just don't see how you can survive.
I think those are you know, those throws we love
the backs throw to George Pickens. You love to throw

(27:02):
up up the up the sideline, you know, to potentially
make a big play. But those are low percentage plays
and I think you know so if you're throwing a
if you're throwing a back shoulder fade to George Pickens
on the sideline, very difficult to defend. They've done it
really well. That ball is going forty yards in the
air to pick up twenty yards right from where Kenny

(27:23):
is in the pocket. You throw that same ball over
the middle, it's twenty yards in the air. It's easier
to complete. It should be open after they attack those edges.
It should catch somebody in. You know, George Pickens catches
that ball on the side, that's great, But where's he
going out of bounds with that? If he's running across
the middle of the field. These guys, he and Deontay
Johnson both can take short crossing patterns and take them

(27:47):
for yards. We've seen we saw Deontay do that earlier
this year. I don't know if this was game plan
specific to this team. I again, it was a complaint
that fans and media members certainly had last year about
the passing attack. It was something they seem to address
in the off season and in training camp, and we
saw it in the preseason and now it's just disappeared.

(28:09):
And I think it's a weapon that every offense should have,
and it's a weapon that much like Kenny running, is
just it's not being used.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah, there's a lot to done. Peel there, and I
have to go back to the last year Kenny's rookie season,
so statistically and just watching tape, is this added up
to the two things that he was worst at as
a passer were red zone and attacking between ten and
twenty yards downfield. I mean, that's where the most bodies
are and generally that's where you're also attacking the middle

(28:37):
of the field. So that's also not unusual for rookies.
Trevor Lawrence was the same way. I mean, those are
the hardest things to do. The great great quarterbacks, the mahomes,
they excel red zone ten to twenty, I mean, those
are the hard NFL throws go balls, aren't you know?
I mean, so what the Steelers do. They go get
a tight end. It's as big as a house. They

(28:57):
go get a big slot receiver. They I watched every
training camp practice so many inbreaking routes. Friar Mouth not
being there I think is part of this as well.
But they underused him before.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah he was being underutilized.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Yeah, yeah, so they knew it. I mean, are their
off season moves and the way they practiced all training
camp implied they knew that these two weaknesses existed. Let's
help Kenny as much as possible. Now. Week one, nobody
in the world throws over the middle against the Niners. Okay,
no big deal. Didn't But all pre season they did
a lot of it in breaking routes, which also helps

(29:33):
after the catch stuff, you know, seam routes out of
the out of the slot. And the last couple of
weeks it's really fallen off. Is it not be Is
it the route concepts? Is it the quarterback? Is it
a combination of both?

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (29:47):
Hey, we're winning, why change? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
It could very well be that.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Lad think about this, Matt, as I've watched the stats,
because what you do with the stats is awesome and
it really gives you. Even an idiot like me can
get a readout from the stats and get to understand it.
The targeted attempts had been going up, he'd been going
up more and more. He was up in the sevens
and so forth, and I think against the Titans some

(30:13):
way it was even higher. No, I'm sorry the week
before that and then against the Titans have dropped to
like four to seven. Yeah. And one of the things
that when I first thought about that, I thought, well,
number one, they got the running game going. Number two,
if you're having trouble in your passing game, you shorten
the routes. You start to make things quicker and try
to get that you know, throw short run long type

(30:34):
of thing or whatever. You got that ball is short
time in the air so that it helps your quarterback.
So I'm just wondering if this is part and parcel
of like pull back a little bit. You know, you've
been creeping forward with the you know, targeted you know,
seven yards, eight yards, what have you somewhere in there,
and now you pull back a little bit because you're
trying to increase the efficiency of your quarterback. Plus you've

(30:55):
got a running game that is now starting to blossom
a little bit. So I just wonder if some of
that is just due to the fact that you're trying
to increase his chances, percentage of completions.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
And by the way, and again we have to take
a break here, but interesting that when they needed it
to put the game away, last play the game offensively,
they threw it to pickings across the middle.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Nice he never throws across the middle.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
It statistically didn't count because it is offensive pass interference.
This is the point after. We'll be back in the
Warren Stewerdination Radio one O two point five DVE. This

(31:41):
is the point after presented by Parks Casino is today
you are Lucky Day bet Parks by Brian Patton in Associates.
It's all about the benefits and by the Steelers Pro Shop.
Get it direct from the team at shop dot Steelers
dot com. This is the portion of the show with
Craig Wolfie and Matt Williams and myself Rob King in
which our coffee consumption and starts to catch up. We
start talking a little faster, especially after a win team

(32:05):
improves a six and three. The twenty three to nineteen
victory over the Green Bay Packers, and a couple of
things we talk about again, evolution, and we wanted to
be a straight line, and we want to go from
the bottom left hand corner of the graft to the
top right hand corner of the graft, that nice forty
five degree angle. Everything is sending. And you know, I
talked about the running game, and we all talked about

(32:27):
that evolving, and that's gotten better. And you have, you know,
your rookie first round pick starting at right tackle. He's evolved.
He's played a couple of good games in Broderick Jones.
So now when I look at the defense, and okay,
first of all, I was surprised that they didn't have
a better game up front work dominating. I thought they
were going to dominate the Packers. I know that the
pressure rate was low. You brought up that statistic, but

(32:49):
I thought, well, they haven't played anybody like the Steelers.
But turned out that they only allowed five hurries on
the game. So they did a great job. But when
I think of evolution of individual players, and net hopefully
is going to you know, again throw itself into the
team concept. As the team gets better. Two guys that
stick out to me on offense, two more rookies, Keanu
Benton continues to look very good to me, Matt and

(33:13):
Joey Porter Jr. I just think I just think he
looks terrific, Absolutely terrific.

Speaker 3 (33:19):
It's every week now that we in every show that
I do, the rookie class as a whole comes up
and it's always positive, right, I mean, even down to
her big and you know, the guys that only play
here and there Washington. We talked about Jones. Those two
to me are absolute keepers, and I think they take
every test and excel, you know, and they're very physically gifted.

(33:41):
They're eager, they're versatile, they're big, you know, I mean
you know there there's there's physical physicality that both those
defensive players bring. And real quick you kind of touched
on it that we reference my stat stuff a lot,
and by no means am I like a math major
or anything like that. But I love to dig into
the staff because it paints the picture of the opponent.

(34:02):
And I thought the same thing. You know, like the Packers,
as much as any team in the league love to
attack deep, teams attack the Steelers deep. They don't have
a high completion percentage, but their ball travels a long
way against the Steelers and their pressure rate allowed was
really good in Green Bay. And I kind of looked
at it like you and thought, eh, I don't think
that'll fly. You know, they haven't really played anyone. There's

(34:24):
no TJ. Watt on the schedule before this and high
Smith and Cam. But to their credit, they won the
pass rush game. And you know, we know that the
back seven had its issues. There's communications, injuries, not Porter
in my opinion, but the rest of them were struggling
a little bit, to say the least. I thought the
pass rush would make up for that, and it didn't.

(34:45):
But they were still able enough to make plays and
you know and win kind of left handed on defense.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yeah, that did surprise me, but they were able to.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
You know, it took away Aaron Jones, which was absolutely too.
Like Derek Henry, the we that one I.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Had started, I had starred because that was you know,
we talked about that in the matchup presented by UNIBT
and that was my key. You got to stop Aaron Jones.
So they stopped Aaron Jones and still had to hang
on by their fingertips to watch the game. They did
a great job on Jones, you know, so you look
at the statistics and you think, okay, for eight for
sixteen on third down, you can't by the way, I

(35:20):
think you mentioned this in your podcast, getting the third
down and sixteen times, that's that's phenomenal. You did a
great job before the sixteen third downs, that's great. The
problem is they converted eight of them, and they were
two for two on fourth down. You can't have that
by the same token. Every time we say, okay, see
there's the sign that they're not the dominant defense. Forget
about the one for five in the red zone that

(35:40):
they had last week and and what was it this week?
One for four. Forget all that because that's not that's
not sustainable. The interceptions, the turnovers, that's not sustainable. So
that stuff, that's all smoke and mirrors. But this is
the problem over here. You know this, this ten for
eighteen combined on third and fourth down. I don't think
you can have it both ways statistically.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Well no, But you know the thing about it is
you just want to get off the field. That's as
simple as it gets, right. You know, you get to
those third downs, and the problem is that, you know,
when you get a couple early on, it tends to
create that momentum that other you know, that they're able
to keep going, you know. I mean, that's well, that's
why you want to fast start. You know, once you
get that rhythm going and that you got the juice flying,

(36:23):
and you're out there and you're nogulating guys and slobber
knocking and doing all that sort of stuff. The stuff,
it's great, and it just becomes this almost self fulfilling
prophecy of you know, the momentum taking over. But if
you don't, man, you get yourself backed up.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
Well, let me throw oh go ahead, no, no, no, please
go ahead.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Let me throw one more name at you. Because what
the guy that I just I've been watching on film
since the game and I've just over and over. Kean
O'Neil did a terrific job. You're talking about eight tackles,
you're talking about him running down AJ Dillon from behind
when he broke free on that pin and pull and
and there was nobody there to you know, and they
had to kick out and he went up the sidelines

(37:02):
even though they scored on it. That was a great effort.
The other thing about him was the interception that he had.
I mean that was just terrific. But you watch him
in and around the box. It was funny because I
never noticed him before, but last week I was on
the sidelines watching practice and I had to walk by him.
I thought, that dude is really thick. I mean he's
put together. This is a this is a safety. And

(37:23):
I'm like, going, great, Google Moogly, that'd be a linebacker
or a defensive end back in the day. And this
guy is jacked. And to watch him operate in the box.
You know, are you sitting there going well, you know,
if you're coming to having a problem about an inside linebacker.
You know, because we went from a parent a spare
to a loan solitaire. As I said this morning, you know, yeah,

(37:45):
so you wonder he might take the equation. Yeah, because
I'll tell you that guy he is jacked.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
And he's played that position before in the pass where
he's been that kind of nickel linebacker. We may see
him because the two guys you have left, you know,
you've lost to injury, two guys that I thought were
playing really well. Cole Holkom, I thought it had really come
into his own and Kwan Alexander, who are your two
best cover guys. And now you bring Mark Robinson, Well,
he's more of an Land and Roberts thumper type, which

(38:13):
is going to be fine in certain circumstances. But you know,
teams are gonna are gonna try to throw the ball
on those guys who can exploit them and get them
in matchups. But you know, when you talk about you know,
this was a game in which the Steelers could have
finally won the yardage battle. Right they're now six and
three and zero to nine in the yardage battle. But
that's okay. Uh, you know, I eventually I'd like to

(38:33):
see the yardage battle one. I mean what, I'm not
gonna lie. But the third quarter to me was where
that was lost because the Packers were able. So the
Studlers really dominated time and possession in the first half
and they were rolling. And then in the second half
they had two ill timed three and outs. But the
defense didn't help itself either. We've talked about complimentary football,

(38:54):
and you know you've heard TJ. Watt kind of talking
about tongues dragging, because you know, in the San Francisco game,
you have three and out three and out turnover on
your third play three and out, three and out. Well,
that's a hard and how that affects snap percentage. So
we saw TJ. Watt play I think it was ninety
seven percent of the snaps in yesterday's game. Able to

(39:14):
play more because you're controlling the line of scrimmage more.
But they could have helped themselves by getting off the field.
And that's if you know, the lack of ability to
get to the passer, not being able to match some
of the issues, injury issues on the back end. That's
something that again kind of like the passing game. You

(39:35):
can't see this going forward, I don't think. And yet
they keep winning doing it somehow.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
No question. So a big thing I harped on last
week going into this game was before this game kicked off,
Steeler defense had played seventy more snaps in the Steeler offense.
That's more than a whole game, you know. I mean,
if you go over the course of the game, you
can't ask one side of the ball to play two more
games on the other side of the ball. I mean,
it's just not going to work out, and you're going
to lose people to attrition.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
Next thing you know, you'd be a six and three
football team.

Speaker 3 (40:05):
You know, Sorry, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
But that's what that's the point I'm making. It doesn't
seem like it's adding up to what you're saying. It
doesn't seem like it's adding up to the way it's
kind of added up.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, but I still think so much of it that
we opened the show with is when you're running the
ball on offense, it just makes so many of these
problems more palatable. And back the third down stuff real quick.
What I saw was a lot of deep completions, a
lot of deep throws late in the down, you know.

(40:38):
I mean, I wouldn't need to go look at Jordan
Love how long his average time to throw was, but
I bet it was pretty high. I mean, he scrambles
a little bit too. And because the passers didn't get
home when I expected, but I will say it threw
some blitzes out there late that were pretty effective too.
Riley coming in and they did it make some adjustments
and I think the Packers had what three or four

(40:59):
fourth order drives and zero points.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, and and so just real quick, and I totally
totally agree with what you're saying. And I still and
I think that a lot of Steelers fans are still
looking at this team and saying it doesn't quite pass
the eye test. You know, you're not controlling the time,
you're being out yardaged by teams. You're zero to nine,
but as I mentioned, you're six and three. That the
amount of plays you're giving up that's going to lead

(41:24):
to attrition. It also means your best players can't be
out there as much as you'd like him to be
out there. That's going to be a problem. You would
thinks you play better opponents. There's still I don't there's
still six and three at this point.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
And you scratch your turnover battle, you cause turnovers in
the red zone, miskicks, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Things like yeah, Boswell.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
Boswell is super important phenomenon.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
And by the way, he was another guy I had
starred and we hadn't. I don't think I've done this
is my third show. I haven't talked about him yet.
He's just so reliable that it's almost like, uh, you know,
but but the thing about t J. Watt you brought
up or the blitzes, you know, that shows again the
greatness of TJ. Watt, Right, Like so you know, they've
got to account for him. They know where he's going
to be. He doesn't line up all over the place.

(42:07):
He lines up in the same spot. So what happens
They bring Riley and Peterson inside of him because they've
got to have two guys occupying him, and they both ran,
you know, unimpeded towards a quarterback.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
You know things. And I don't know, I have no
idea if any opponents do it. But we used to
play Denver and Carl Mecklenberg was an excellent linebacker played
for the Denver Broncos back in the day. So one
time they come up with this great idea that we're
gonna have Mecklenberg rules on pass pro the way they
have Jordan rules and basketball, and right that well, it

(42:39):
just totally went against our basic foundational whatever, even rules
that everybody knew, you know, totally, and all of a
sudden you got guys like screwing up, missing assignment stuff
like that. And Mecklenburg had like forty seven sacks and
one hundred tackles, and you know, it was just a joke.
So then we played him again later in that year,
and wouldn't you know, we goes, Okay, we're gonna stick

(43:00):
with our regular rules, and he wasn't even a problem.
You know, you can create problems for yourself by making
special adjustments for special guys. If you go against everything
that's kind of normal, you know what I mean, you
can really create those problems. And the other thing I'll
say is Chuck used to say two things. You say,
whatever it takes right, and teamwork is not fifty to fifty.

(43:22):
Teamwork is whatever you need it to be. At the time,
as this offense is starting to evolve in the Running
Game starting to take some traction, the defense has got
to hold the point. Special team's got to be able
to hold the point. And there's gonna be a time
where the offense is gonna start carrying some of the
load defensively, you know, as they did in the Running Game.
You know, that's evolving. But it's whatever it takes. It's

(43:43):
I know that the eye test, as you're talking about,
is something that maybe it's not so good.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
You know.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
I'm sure my wife when she first looked at me,
I didn't pass the eye test. Okay, you know, maybe
it helped, you know, you know later on when the
you know, the light's a little dimmer, you can't see
as much, right, But the fact is you look at
this and and things are happening like we talked about earlier,
and guys are getting it done in certain areas, and
it's it's got to keep coming. It's keep got to

(44:08):
keep coming. We're only nine games into.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
This, And is that how the team is feeling right now?
At six and trade? Because it begins it's very easy. Absolutely,
Like Matt and I are calling up stats and and
and I keep looking at this. I can only speak
for myself and say, is this sustainable? Is winning this way?
Can you continue to be outplayed by seventy plays? Can
you continue to be out gained?

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Of course number You're not sitting there saying, hey, hey guys,
we only got seventy plays day. The defense got one
hundred and forty.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
You know, No, I'm gonna go out there for the
last couple.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
You know what I'm talking about. They're constantly trying to
get better and evolved. But it's whatever is necessary to
get the job done. That's what this group is about.
This is all about just going out there and and
a little spit and blood, guts and everything else. And
hanging in there and somebody making a play at the
crucial moment.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
And now the Browns looking forward. Yeah, crazy game they played,
crazy game they played, and looking forward to you know,
two games on the road and you're six and three,
and with what happened yesterday, Matt, you're right in it again.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
And the division, I mean you you're in the playoff picture,
but you're in the division.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
Cincinnati lost, I mean yeah, I mean real quick on
the Browns. They won that game because the Ravens made
a lot of late mistakes. The Browns made very few mistakes,
and they ran the ball and made plays on defense.
Does that sound familiar?

Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, man, we like it. Steelers are six and three,
following to twenty three to nineteen victory over the Green
Bay Packers. For the most complete selection of Steelers merchandise,
from official sideline gear and authentic memorabilia to our extensive
selection of jerseys and terrible towels, visit one of the
official Steelers Pro Shop stores located at Akrosher Stadium, Grove
City Premium Outlets, or Tanger Outlets, or visit as online

(45:47):
at shop dot Steelers dot com for all your Steelers
merchandise needs. Directly from the team for Craig Wolfley, Matt Williams,
and I'm Rob King. Thanks very much for watching the
point after on Steelers Nation Radio on one oh two
point five DVE
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