The Point After - Week 8 vs. Jaguars

Recap the Steelers Week 8 loss to the Jaguars

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
This is the Point After presented by Parks Casino. Is
today your Lucky Day bet Parks by Brian Patton and Associates.
It's all about the benefits and by the Steelers Pro
Shop get it direct from the team at shop dot
Steelers dot com. Alongside Craig Wolfley and Matt Williamson, I'm
rob king time for this look back segment. It's brought

(00:30):
to you by Brian Patton at Associates. It's all about
the benefits and for the Steelers a twenty to ten
loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars. Wolf general impressions from you
following that defeat yesterday.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
It's a tough one. I mean it's a game missed opportunities.
Obviously that you can talk about the officiating now you know,
you talk about, you know the problem with the injuries,
and now that that's not it either. Look, it's about execution.
It's about staying and your roles, doing your one eleventh
and they didn't have enough guys winning their one eleventh.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
I'm sorry to here. It wasn't about officiating, said five
minutes of the show.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Place didn't he better? No, no, no, it didn't help me.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Didn't help Matt You.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, I mean Deontay dropping the first pass, you know,
kind of look back like this gun different even if
he catches that one, and that wasn't just him. Of course,
he played a very good game, especially in the first
half or the blown coverage on at N. I got him,
you got him, And that's probably the biggest play of
the game. But frankly, my biggest takeaway is Jacksonville's pretty good.

(01:34):
I mean, that's a really good football team with a
stud quarterback in an offense that can really play any
way you want. I mean, so if we got together
on Friday and you said you held that offense to
twenty points, turned him over three times, I would have
said I really liked their chances of wines Say.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, Etn. They held him to three point five yards
per carry back. They are committed to the run, They
run the ball well. They can make plays in the
passing game. I thought up the scheme of going to
Ingram underneath again with ten receptions on ten targets, just
backbreaker plays, you know, when you've when you've and they've
got two guys in the outside who are really good

(02:11):
and Kirk and Ridley, but you know, just being able
to run those short drag routes, easy completions picking up
eight nine yards a clip.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
That's all he was getting too.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, and they did a good job tackling him, except
for the one play where they didn't. But still the
easy throw in which you can pick up five six
seven yards. Boy, that is a nice asset to an offense.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
There's no question about it. And the fact that they
use the tight end as much, you know, and we
are the opposite, you know. I mean you look at
the Steelers and very little contributions from the tight end,
you know.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Even none yesterday.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, and even with Pat Fryarmouth, you know what I mean,
when he was there, he was not getting the targets,
so he got last year.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well it's interesting now, so I've started to think about
how this maybe falls together as puzzle pieces. And it
is true Friarmuth isn't getting any targets, and you realize
how important Deontay Johnson is to this team in this
passing attack. Uh, maybe you didn't realize it due to
his absence, but then when he came back, you realized, wow,

(03:12):
this is a pretty good player, Matt. When you get
him back and you get Pickings back, you don't have Friarmuth. Now,
Friarmuth was under targeted, but were teams maybe shifting their
coverage his way With Deontay Johnson out, it would be
interesting to see now with Johnson back in, if friar
Mouth would have a larger part in this offense. That
maybe Deontay Johnson's one of those guys that would have

(03:33):
a domino effect like we see with a guy like TJ.
Watt's gonna make players around him better. Maybe you know,
you have to scheme for Deontay Johnson or Pickens. You
can't scheme against all those guys and Friarmuth too.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
I wouldn't think you would think. I mean, that's a
hard thing to comment on because frankly, I think Pickens
is on the verge of stardom. I mean that he
is a real asset that when you get one on
one with him, you kind of that Randy Moss roll
where you're gonna go his direc and he had very
limited opportunities but certainly made the most of them with
a big play. Wolf could probably speak this better than

(04:07):
I could at this point, because when we're recording this,
I've not watched the All twenty two, but so I
just watched it my lazy boy, but it sure seemed
like they were treating Jacksonville. I mean, especially early in
the game, we're treating Pickens as the one with coverages
more rolled his directions than they were Deontae.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
I have not watched the All twenty two either, I
fell asleep.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
But the targets would tell you that that was the Ya.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
Yeah, and That's where I'd go with it. They're just
such different receivers that you could take one away, but
the other the other one's gonna feast, you know. And Johnson,
will Nickel and Dimia and I think we're to your point,
Rob if you could throw some friar mouth in there.
And the tight end situation with him being out hasn't
been great. I mean, Hayward's dominating the snaps, Washington seems
to be falling out of favor for whatever reason. But

(04:53):
you would like to get more production from there, especially
in that Ingram mold. You know, Ingram's a former first
round pick. That was a great comment. Guy hit him
in stride, let him be an.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
Athlete, you know.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
I mean, I think you could do some similar things with.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Ryermoth yeah, I agree, but he hasn't been there, so
you haven't had all these guys together at the same time.
And Wolf, I think you and I Max are talking
about this. You don't always have the depth you want
on the roster at every position. Like I think the
Steelers have just like almost the perfect amount of depth

(05:25):
at outside linebacker. You have two highly highly paid guys,
but you've got a young guy in the rise herbig
I thought another look limited snaps. Yeah, he comes up
with a forced fumble last week he or was it
last week, had his first sack or two weeks ago,
think it was last weekt had his first sack. So
and then you've got a veteran on the other side
who's been there and done that, who understands his role,

(05:45):
who isn't a guy that's you know, pounding his chest
or disgruntled about not getting enough playing time. But you
can put him in there, Marcus Golden, and he can
be productive for you. That's like a perfect starting depth
kind of thing. Well, no team has that across the board, nobody,
And for this Yeerler's maybe we're seeing that wide receiver
and tight end where two of those positions where you're

(06:07):
hoping on Austin, but he's basically a rookie. You're hoping
on Washington. But you knew when you got him he
was going to develop for a while. You just thought
you had the luxury of letting him develop slowly with
Firemuth being there. But now Firemooth's hurt exactly.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
So well, look, Connor Heyward's tough guy, runs good routes,
got good hands, he's got he's got that little niche
specialty type thing about him. I think that he's a
little bit small for an in line tight end. He
gets overmatched with bigger guys. You know, he's a full back,
h back type, the guy that can wham and coming
across the formation things of That'll like that. That's where

(06:44):
they're lacking. I want, you know Darnell. We see Darnell
out there, but he's not I forgot what his targets were,
but they're zero. Okay, well yesterday, right, but he's had
one or two right, yeah for the Yeah, Yeah, it's
low though. Yeah, my synapses don't record numbers that low
in my brain. But you know the thing about it is,

(07:04):
you got I'm wondering what's going on with Darnell that's
creating the non opportunities to throw them the ball. I mean,
that is a giant oak tree you can plant underneath,
you know, zone coverage, and guys practically have to climb
his back to defend against standing there right, no question.
And the blocking that you get from him at that position,

(07:27):
I mean, that's his capabilities in that area. I would think,
you know, can be expanded upon. But certainly, like you said,
without Pat Fryarmouth, one thing, one thing you did with Friarmuth,
You've got a guy who reads the inside stuff like
a slot receiver. And I reiterate that a lot, but
it's important because if you see the safeties the way
the quarterback sees the safeties, you got something going. And

(07:47):
it's your tight end who can read coverages like that.
That's pretty good stuff. He can win against any safety
from number to number to me on the inside.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
And yesterday's game specifically, though, I didn't think there was
a shortage of open receivers. Yeah, I mean Deontay was
opened at will and there were some drops, there were
some execution stuff, there are some missthrows, but there were
plays to.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Be had, no doubt. I mean, I mean I could
well so you know, Kenny Picking, I'm sure he'd love
to have that throwback to Pickens on I think it
was the third drive of the game. You wind up
with four straight three and ounce, well, first play over
the middle. Deontay would love to catch that ball. I'm
sure he would tell you that, I'd love to catch
that ball, and and uh and see what I can
get after the catch.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
And he should have got them. And he's good enough.
I mean, let's just put it that way. And he's
good enough to catch that.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Pickens was wide open, you know, there was there was
a lot of room there for Kenny to make a throw.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
And man, make this point again, Yes, that that middle
post that he ran against the perfect defense. Who called that?

Speaker 1 (08:46):
So I think that was Matt's point too. You know
what people have been picking on Matt Williamson, Matt Canada. Sorry, Matt,
no one's no one picks on Matt Williamson.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
But think about that. I mean, you know, just so
that you say it out there, Look, that was that's
a perfectly called see there.

Speaker 1 (09:04):
Was and there was one more two in which down
in the goal line on a third down play and
you had trips to the right, you had two receivers
to the left. Kenny looked to the right when he
saw the safety, and it looked like he saw the safety.
So the safety is sitting there trying to figure out
do I jump on the two receiver side or I
have to bust it over to the three receiver side,
you know, covering the inside of the field. And when

(09:26):
Kenny looked right and the safety moved to the right,
that was all the room Kenny needed to come back
to the left and find Deontay Johnson. It looked like
it just took him a hair too long to get
back there. That was a well designed play in which
Deontay Johnson broke wide open for a touchdown.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
And it looked like, oh, he stumbled, you're talking about
that one?

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Where he then well then Kenny behind him, Yeah, if
that ball is thrown you know a second earlier, it's
a it's a pretty easy touchdown.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Well, it looks like that he was expecting Deontay to
sit down in the window. I mean, it's his own coverage,
and he said, down in that spot, That's what I
think he was thinking. And Deante was continuing to move.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Right, but they were pointing, Well, if I mean the
play design was there.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, the way he was wide open, yes, regardless of
whether where the ball was supposed to go, that was it.
There was nothing wrong with the play design there. Let's
look at the defense a little bit because there were
some guys that I thought really stuck out. I thought
of Landon Roberts. I thought the middle linebackers Matt played
a very and again this is we've pointed them out

(10:28):
now a few times. After what seemed like kind of
a rough start to the season against San Francisco, I
think they've I wouldn't say every week they've gotten better,
but we're talking about them more and more. It seems
as the season goes on.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
It seems like I would say every game they've gotten
a step forward collectively. And the Niners are probably the
hardest team in the league to play against, and they
were three new guys learning together, so that's as tough
a They got thrown in the deep end with an anchor,
and you know they struggled in that game, but that
was ancient history. Considering it's Halloween already. I like the group.

(11:02):
I don't know that any of them are going to
be Lambert or Ham, but the three of them are
good complimentary players. Roberts is that downhill guy. He didn't
play a ton against the Rams, but you got to
bump this time. Alexander seems to make a play a
game and Holcom's kind of the steadying force led the
team and tackles in again. And it's night and day
from last year. I mean this last year, no splash

(11:22):
from that position, room at all, force fumbles, you know
anything this year this game there, I mean, this group
does it week after week and they're not liabilities.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Yep, and again he forced to fumble. Kwant Alexander, so Wolf,
what did you think of that middle line? Are the
inside linebacker points?

Speaker 2 (11:36):
I loved it. Man. These are some guys that are
really coming with a downhill bang. They are firing quicker
just watching them. They just hit that switch and boom
they come dead ahead. Landon Roberts just does not know
how to put the brakes on at all. I mean,
this guy is just he is. He's a human crash
has dummy and I say that lovingly. And then fraternal
you know, the fraternal order of guys that are headbangers.

(11:59):
You know, I appreciate what he does because it's very
hard to do. You know, and he is one of
those guys that can just blow things up at a moment.
And like Matt was talking about Cole Hulkomb loving tackles man.
I mean he was all over the place and doing
a nice job coming off blocks, just engaging and Kwan
again he shakes it shakes up that that shovel pass

(12:21):
man pops that out and Cole Holcomb as they could play.
Linebackers are like getting plays. You know, you got you
got t J. Watt, you know, scooping and scoring and
you got eight Heighsmith doing stuff. The linebacker group al
four across the board. Well the parent or the parent
of spare as Mike Tomlin calls him, Uh, you know,
they're all doing a great job.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Sac and a half Roberts And speaking of what Mike
Tomlin said, well, looks like Joey Porter is going to
be back out there as a starter. That seems to
be the indication and good glad to see.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
It about it five Yeah, yeah, I bet you. I
bet your dad took him out in the backyard and
had a tutorial on tackling for last week. Right. Well,
but the coverage is good right now, I say that laughingly. Yeah,
just knowing how what a great player Joey was, you know.
But the point being is, and especially after the Hall

(13:13):
of Honor the night before, you think about the greats
that come before you, you know, and and it's just
it's a neat thing. And then to have that game,
and it's a shame that they didn't win it because
there was so much of the Steeler history that was,
you know, right there in the stadium.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Still not one hundred percent sure on that touchdown pass.
It looked like cover two and whether whether that meant
that it was a miscommunication on the back end or
whether simply Casey thought he could pick off the pass.
And by the way, that was a great throw by Lawrence,
Like that's a back hip that I think Caz maybe's
got a chance, but it caught him up high in
stride perfect. And by the way, yeah, really that's an underrated,

(13:53):
difficult catch for yeah, free ten because I'm sure he
probably was kind of guessing where it was going to be.
He probably lost sight of it for the last ten yards.
I mean, that's a heck of a catch by That's
a really really hard catch. Regardless, I think Porter now
is hopefully one of these pieces moving forward. This is

(14:13):
a team that needs to get itself moving in the
right direction, and Joey Porter's hopefully one of those guys,
young guy on the rise, that can help you do that.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Yeah, I'm very encouraged with him. I mean, the traits
are very impressive. I mean, I think that the secondary,
especially once losing Menca, which was a big problem obviously,
just lacks athleticism and speed and you know traits, and
Porter certainly has those learn on the fly. They brought
him along kind of slow. I think he's lining up

(14:41):
to be their best corner in the second half of
the season.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
We haven't talked officiating yet, but we will. You know,
it's such a short week. We'll probably take a little
peek ahead to the Tennessee Titans coming up on Thursday
night as well. You're listening to The Point After on
Steelers Nation Radio and one oh two point five DV.

(15:07):
This is The Point After, presented by Parks Casino. Is
today You're Lucky Day bet Parks by Brian Patton and associates.
It's all about the benefits and by this Steelers Pro
Shop get it direct from the team at shop dot
Steelers dot com. Okay, so the Steelers lose twenty to ten.
They were outplayed by the Jaguars. They were out gained
by the Jaguars. The Jaguars are a team that appears

(15:30):
to be clearly on the rise. They're to point in
their progression where I kind of was hoping we might
see the Steelers at this point. But before we move
on too much further, some interesting officiating in this game. Interesting.
So the offside call on Ciamalow mystifying, to say the least,

(15:51):
that was mystifying. And then I think there's legitimate, you know,
complaints about the roughing the passer on Neil and then
non roughing the passer on Gatsis. You know, those are
again interesting, I would say, non helpful for the Steelers.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
The interesting thing part to me is, first of all,
it's like Isaac Somewim Holly Goes. I think I've been
lining up the same way for eight years. Wow, he's
got a lot of infractions. And you know, the point
being is I also find this a little difficult because
I was talking, we were talking Max starks On in
the locker room this morning, and Max said, the official
to the side of Jacksonville, the line judge called it

(16:29):
and he's and I was like, well, he's the right
guard and you got the center with his head in
the way. How does he call it right? I don't
know how that happens. Yeah, because they moved I guess
they moved Isaac over and then you had Nick Herbert
and Nate Herbig come in and he's the other guard,
is what I was told. Now, I didn't see that.
I don't remember that, but that's what I was told.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
It takes three points off the board with just.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Game. But here's the point. What how can you see
that and not see the Jaguar at the end of
the Yeah, on the line that was off sides? Yeah,
I mean clearly offsides. His hand was off sides, his
ed was off sides. Yeah. So I don't know. I
mean to me that.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
I'm trying to remember if I've ever actually seen that before.
I haven't an offensive line.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
I've done it. I've done it on third down. Yeah,
but we know that one. I've told that story before,
but I've not done it on a field goal thing
where I was off sides.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
And coach Thomons quote was, I've seen this for seventeen years.
I've never seen that.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, so we can we can say we've never seen it,
so it's nine to six, and then you know again,
I will say this for the officials. It is tough
to see on roughing the passer. Sometimes you just you
almost wonder. You know, we're seeing it on slow motion.
So I've got a I've got a theory, and I

(17:49):
an idea. I'd like to see all the networks come
together and do this right. Theory is this isn't a theory.
This is an idea that I'd like to see all
the networks come together with. I would like to see
them find an on field camera closest to the call
and show that first to us before we see the
slow motion. So let's see what the official is seeing

(18:10):
before we see the slow motion. You know what I'm saying.
So the officials standing from you to me away, and
now this is I forget, this is not TV, this
is radio. Wolf is ten feet away from me, not
even probably, So you're seeing something happening, you know, a
man flying in at twenty miles an hour, hitting somebody
and down they go down to the ground. And now, okay,

(18:30):
we're seeing it live. What are we seeing here? Well,
let's see the replay. Oh now, we're seeing that guy
twenty miles an hour running at three miles an hour
as he slowly takes the guy in the ground. I'd
like to see. I'd like to see the first look
be fast motion. What do the officials see? Then let's say,
what are we going to say at home? Oh? Yeah,
that looked like I mean, we can all see it
when it's it's like a call at first base in baseball.

(18:53):
We all see it when it's slowed down to the
absolute you know, last frame of video. Right, I think
that would be interesting. You're not You're not. Wolf is
looking at me like, I don't know at all. That's
not interesting.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
The thing that bothers me is that it can turn
into the flag festive past interfering.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
No, no, I'm just no, I'm not saying. I'm saying
once the call has been made in the field, right, Okay,
for the viewer, for the viewer at home, let's see
it at fast motion before we see the slow motion.
Let's see what we see. What so it's not effect No, no,
it's not affecting.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
The sympathetic to the right.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, yeah, just to show Okay, so we all see
it in slow motion. What will we call it fast motion.
That's what I'm saying. Well, if we were the official No, No,
I'm not saying I don't think we need any more flags.
I think we've got enough flags. So the point being,
let's see it, because we all see it. My point
was this, you see Neil, it looked clean in person.
You saw Kenny Pickett didn't look quite so clean in person.

(19:47):
The replace, certainly I thought, bore that out anyway.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Matt, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
And then the other aspect to it is.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
I'm not going to ask you if you were interested.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, But and then you add the element of did
he put his all of his body weight on on
the quarterback on top of that? Which makes it that
much harder on the ref right? And maybe Neil did,
But to me, I didn't think so either, to be
very honest with you, And I would not call it
a flag on that, to be totally truthful, And I
would have on the other one. But it seems to

(20:15):
me the nature of the rule isn't a defensive back
coming in and putting all of his one hundred and
ninety or two hundred pounds on the quarterback. It's more
of Ted Washington, Vince Wilfork putting all their weight on.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
I mean, I know that you don't decipher it that way,
but it just kind of sometimes just use some discretion.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
You know. You know what's interesting later on, they sacked
Trevor Lawrence and there was like four guys. You know,
you're trying to wrestle on the ground, and half of
it is the guys trying to wrestle each other as
they're wrestling the quarterback to the ground. I don't even
remember that one sack, but there's a group of guys
and they all landed on Trevor. There's no penalty with that,
which I think is fine. It's the way it's supposed

(20:53):
to be. But if you got four guys that are
on top of the quarterback and then you're gonna throw
it on one guy on top of the quarterback, I
just find that a little bit. You know, it doesn't
like add up, you know what I mean. And the
thing about it is, look, it's just like what Lambert
said way back when I was playing, you know, put
a skirt on him. That's what basically, that's what's happening

(21:14):
right now. You're protecting him so much. And I remember
years ago I had a conversation with Clark Kagan's after
a preseason game in Philadelphia. He was rushing Donovan McNabb
and I'll never forget when Clark said after the game,
he goes, I couldn't believe it. It's closing in on
McNabb and the referee started yelling at me to pull
off before I even hit him. Wow, I was like going, Oh,

(21:36):
and that was the beginning, you know that. That was
like in the O seven eight somewhere in there, you
know where, before they started all but even back then,
they were protecting the quarterback in a huge, huge amount.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, it's it's an entertainment, right, I mean, it's a
it's a it's a it's a sport, it's a business.
It's an entertainment. And look at the look around the
league and see what a difference a quarterback makes. There's
a no question, But it's still limited. It's a limited
amount of players that are really, really good and they
want to protect those guys.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
So I think that's really a league wide NFL problem
right now is if you're that defensive play, if you're
Clark Kagan's, you're in a no win situation. If you're
a Neil you're in a no win situation. The last year,
sixty nine quarterbacks started a game in the NFL, and
we're on that same pace now. We just had our seventh.
Levis was a seventh rookie to start. And it's not

(22:25):
even Halloween. I mean, Tyler Badget wasn't even drafted. He's starting.
Kirk Cousins tears his achilles yesterday, Picket gets hurt, I mean,
Stafford got hurt. Like there's not enough quarterbacks to go around,
and we're starting to go through them already really quick
through the end of October.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, and the product suffers, and it just does big.
The product suffers. So that's why they're protecting.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
At what point?

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:44):
What? At what point though, do you start going, well,
you know what, the quarterback is now untouchable, you know,
and I'm.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Lucky at that flag before he released the ball, I'm
sitting there thinking, if I'm a defensive guy, I'm going
to wrap them up, lift him up, and go will
you please lay down?

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Now? You know, I do pull something like that during
a game and you probably get fined out.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Well, but I also think it's difficult when you are
when you have a ben Roethlisberger. You have a Trevor Lawrence. Uh,
these are big, yeah, Josh Allen, these are big, these guys.
I mean, Josh Allen's as strong as just about anybody
trying to tackle him, you know. So now I got
to pull up and then try to wrestle him to

(23:25):
the ground. And then you also there's also you know,
again we're getting into the weeds here a little bit.
But now maybe Ben Roethlisberger drags you for a little bit,
you know, and then gets a ball off and it's
complete and it's the first.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Down of you think doesn't want the whistle to blow?

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Right?

Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah. Have you ever stood next to Tom Brady? I have.
He's a big guy. Yeah. You know, I'm suddenly looking
at going this guy needs an extra protection, right, I mean,
that's a rather large individual. And the guys that aren't
big guys run like better than ever. I mean, it's
Lamar and Kyler.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
But you don't need Turkey Joones slamming Terry Bradshaw.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
I know nobody supplexes them any more like that, you know.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
But it's because it's legislated out, you know, between friends
and not allowed to do that.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
You know.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
That's why I'm shot the Steelers didn't get the call, right,
I mean, that's right. Usually they side on the air
of you know, pretecting the quarterback.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
And even when I look at this, I made a
note during the course of the game that you know, yes, okay,
you have the missed field goal. That really was officiating.
I mean, it shouldn't have been a missed field goal.
And yet you know, the turnover margin I think was
free to nothing at that point, and it was You're
still trailing nine to three, and two of those turnovers
came in the red zone, and you just you weren't

(24:36):
generating enough to win this game. You weren't the better team.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
No, the bottom line to me, yeah exactly, you know,
and they've got to baseline and develop this running game.
They've got to get this thing going. And why it's
not exactly on every play you look and there's something
going wrong, all right, whether it's they run a counter
influence play where they pull the guards and they what
they do is a little what they call a G
block where you got a tight end coming around and

(25:02):
they'll hit the and wham the three technique or whoever's
in there. And on one play it looks like it
was supposed to break to the outside another more inside.
I'm not sure. One of the blocking scheme looks like
he goes one way and the back goes the other.
And then the other instance it was the blocking scheme
was you know, right on, and it worked very well.
I you know, there's some a little bit of misfire

(25:23):
in between again the backs in the line.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
So Rob I recorded a podcast earlier today and I
kind of started it by saying, hypothetical, bear with me here.
If Deontay catches that first ball, if the flag never
comes out at the end of the half on the kick,
if they don't blow the coverage on ATM, they just
play it straight and maybe catch the ball and they
drag them down or whatever. Would they won. I don't know,

(25:46):
they'd have been in it. But if you need all
those ifs to keep up with a contender like Jacksonville,
you're not the better team.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah, I you know what I mean. You bring up
a great point. So what we're talking about with this
to others is speculative. What if Deontay catches down ball,
What if Pickens, you know, he hits Pickens on that
long corner route that gets you out to midfield on
that third drive of the game, you should make But
what if there are a lot of what ifs? Well,
Jacksonville overhears that. What if Trevor Lawrence doesn't get sacked

(26:16):
at the thirty one one thing he can't do there
is get sacked by TJ. Watt, Well there's three points
off the board. What if he doesn't throw an interception
in the end zone, Well, there's three points off. I
mean these are like, these aren't What if these are
you were in position to score, you shot yourself in
the foot. This is not, you know, somewhere over the rainbow.
After we completed that pass, then we would have needed

(26:37):
three more passes and a couple other first downs, and
then maybe we would have kicked the field goal. They
were in scoring position, they were in the red zone
twice and turned it over. That sacked is essentially a
turnover by TJ. Watt that takes you out of field
goal range. So we could say the students could have
more points. But Jacksonville can be saying we should have
had thirty five points in this game, and I don't

(26:58):
think they would have been wrong.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
That's quite quite true. You could a lot of games.
You can what if anything, you know, and that's just
the nature of the beast. You know. It's just about
coming out and getting a faster start. And I know
that takes us right back to the what if. You know,
but if you were able to flip the field on
that first play, you know, if Deontay had caught that

(27:20):
ball and you led to a score, there's a lot
of things that one play can be a domino towards
a whole different line of thinking. One of the problems
with that that when you come off the field and
you're unsuccessful in your first drive is you feel like
I'm just imagining from years past when when I've been
in a sort of a similar situation, you feel like,

(27:42):
oh boy, here we go again, you know. And it's
not something where you collapse, you know, but it's just
that little acknowledgment inside that things aren't quite working out again,
and it puts you in kind of like when you
could have the Jaguars on their heels, you feel like
we missed that.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Sure, the emotional component that you can't you can't just
take more, you know. I think also, Matt, one of
the things for me that's a little troublesome, actually more
than a little troublesome. This is an eleven and five
football team since a break last year, but it just
it just doesn't feel that way. They're four and three
this year. It just doesn't feel that way because of

(28:21):
where the offense is. And last year they were able
to after you know, they could come out of the
break that go seven and two. They do it playing
a certain style of football. We're gonna run the ball,
you know, if we get into third and short, we're
gonna convert a short pass or maybe Kenny Pickett's gonna
run for a first down. Then we're gonna move the
chains again, and we're gonna march down the field. We're
not going to turn the ball over, we're not gonna

(28:42):
make mistakes. We're gonna play good defense. And now you're
trying to morph into the modern, more modern NFL where
you get four hundred yards fifty five games now in
which you've failed to get four hundred yards. That's startling.
No team is even close to that. So you're trying
to get to that point, Well, you haven't got to
that point, and you seem to have left behind that

(29:02):
that formula that success with a running game that allowed
you to be seven and two down the stretch last year.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Yeah, And I said this on the Drive and every
other outlet, you know, all off season. I mean, but
you know, the off season you kind of look for
topics and you repeat yourself obviously, But again, I really
thought after the bye last year till the end of
the season, they poured a very nice, concrete, solid foundation

(29:31):
in which to build the house.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
And I thought that foundation would carry over week after
week this year. Throw a Ciamalu in there to even
make it better. Sure, second year quarterback to make it better.
But the foundation isn't there.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
You know.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
It hasn't been that formula that you just spelled out
so well. You thought you'd have that as a starting
point where you don't, you know, I mean, and I
keep going back to sixteen point one. Right now, they're
averaging sixteen point one point per game, and that includes
defensive scores and right making all your kicks and all
those type of things too. It's not gonna get it done. Yeah,

(30:08):
I mean, we can, we can talk through it. This
is wrong. This is wrong. It's play calling, it's a quarterback,
it's running bay whatever. Sixteen point one and it's Halloween.
You're not gonna win any games.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Nope, You're not gonna win many games doing it that way.
So we're gonna talk a little bit more about the defense.
Take a quick look forward to Tennessee as well when
we continue on the Point After on Steelers Nation Radio
and one oh two point five DVE. This is a

(30:42):
Point After presented by Parks Casino. Is today your Lucky
Day bet Parks by Brian Patton and associates. It's all
about the benefits and by the Steelers Pro Shop. Get
it direct from the team at shop dot Steelers dot
com coming to you. Following the twenty to ten loss
of the Jaguars with Craig Wolfley and Matt Williamson, I'm
rob king, okay, So Matt, I'm gonna start with you

(31:02):
on this one because I ran this by a wolf
earlier with Max Starks this morning. So we look at
the time of possession and a wide discrepancy eight and
a half minutes of time of possession for Jacksonville. And
when I look at the way the Steelers defense is constructed,
and I know Cam Hayward's not out there right now,
but when you're paying right and neither's mick it. But

(31:23):
when I just look at the way the team is
established and we talk about how the offense can help
the defense, how football is the ultimate team sport really
in that regard and in many other regards. You have
three guys now four with high Smith, with which you
are paying a lot of money. You have the second
highest paige defense in the league. So when that happens,

(31:44):
you either need to have some young players on the
rise or you need to do a great job in
free agency to have depth. But you're probably not going
to have the same kind of depth as a team
that takes their money and sort of sprinkles it around, right,
So you know, some teams will go with, well, we
don't have that, we don't have that bell coal in
the defensive line, so let's just roll six defensive linemen.

(32:04):
We're going to pay them all, you know, roughly the
same amount of money, and so there's not going to
be maybe that that playmaker, but there's also not going
to be a drop off in depth. And I think
obviously the injuries have caused a drop off in depth,
but I also think time of possession causes a drop
off too, because you TJ Watt. We talked about this
earlier in the season. He was said he was exhausted

(32:26):
in the forty nine ers game. These guys cannot go
out there and play play after playoffs, but they need blows,
they need brakes. So when you come out to the
sideline and you're taking your helmet off, and you know,
you grab a towel and you're wiping off your for
itad and you're reaching for the water, and a coach
is yelling punt team and you got to go out
and play again, it makes it very difficult. And I

(32:49):
think it's exacerbated by the way the team is made up,
because of the way they're made up. Not saying that's
the biggest issue, but to me, it is an issue.
You need to get these guys off the field. They're
gonna be much more effective if they are playing a
higher percentage of your team snaps, because there's a reason
they're making that amount of money and they can. You

(33:09):
can only play them so much.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Yeah, it's tremendous point. It's a great conversation. We could
talk for hours about. But the Browns are figuring this
out right now. They've been the best defense in the
league by any number you look at, but Chubbs out,
Watson's out. All of a sudden, there's a lot more
three and outs, and now their defense is starting to
show chinks in the armor. And without a question, I
believe in this league, bad defense is too much defense,

(33:33):
or too much defense is bad defense. It doesn't matter
who you put out there. It could be Heyward, make
a watch, blah blah blah. Yep, there's a point where
you're you've just been out there too long. And last
segment we were talking about what I thought was a
foundation they poured after the bye. And people might not
know this, but as it stands right now, Halloween, not
the Steelers are lasting time of possession in the whole league.

(33:55):
They've been they've been falling backwards. But last year, up
until the bye they started last they moved up to
like thirtieth. At the bye, they were horrible in time possession.
But when the season was finished, and this is almost
impossible to do. I mean, you got to think you
went halfway through the season is like the bottom of
the league in time of possession. In twenty twenty two

(34:15):
they end up like fourth or fifth best in the
whole year put together, I mean they were holding the
ball like thirty four minutes a game for the season
after starting out in the biggest hole you ever could.
That's what they need to do. I mean, that has
to happen to save the season. And we saw the
same thing. I'm not trying to spin it with rainbows
and unicorns, but it's just like last year. I mean,

(34:35):
if they can get chunk yardage and first downs and
long sustained drives, they don't need the explosives they had
them and the Chiefs last year had the most offensive
drives or ten or more plays, a lot of four
yard gains, a lot of three yard gains, six yard gains.
But then your defense comes out flying around, you know.
I mean, I think this defense is pretty deep. We've

(34:56):
talked about the inside linebackers, the outside linebackers. I'm impressed
with the Rmanni Watts's of the world.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yeah, guys like that montrevious Adams Yea flashes game after game,
making place.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
A good player.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
The front seven depth doesn't worry me at all, but
it's gonna start to be exposed if you keep it
up at this page.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, and Wolf, I guess that takes us back to
the offense now and does there just need to be
a larger commitment maybe to running the game. This offense
that you wanted to be more explosive. Maybe it's just
for whatever reason, it's just not there, and maybe it's
time to get back to what made him effective and
that offense helping your defense, the two going hand in glove,

(35:36):
and just building that identity again with the running game.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Well, you've got it. Obviously. You want complimentary both squads, offense, defense,
you know, playing complimentary football. The fact of the matter
is when you all you're doing is roll in the chains.
I mean, that's what time of possession is. I mean,
there was no greater one than way back in the
eighties where down to cleaved down in Houston in the
Astronome and you know we went for thirteen minutes on

(36:01):
a twenty three plate drive.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah, there's a lot of forward and backwards, you know. Yeah,
But all I can tell you was, you know, in
a in a dome that had poor ventilation and a
lot of rednecks smoking filterless cigarettes that provided a cloud
over the field in the second quarter, you know, but
the defense was well rested. They were all happy, you know.
But that's That's what it's about. I mean, not every

(36:24):
drive has to end with a score, but if you
were able to take that ball eight nine, ten plays,
double digit, twelve plays, fourteen, things like that, I mean,
defense is like, yeah, you know, I mean, because they
can get rejuvenated. But the fact is, you still got
to solve the red zone problem. You still have to
make sure that you're doing things where I think they

(36:45):
went to the game, Matt, you had a stat was
it sixty percent of the drives were not resulting in
first down or something like.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
That in the league highest reach Ye.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Anyway, Yeah, and so one of the things I really
think is important taking a look at some of the
advantages of power football. You know, we saw it, started
to see it with Broderick Jones brought in You got
that that. I loved it. Roderick and Chukes double team
the guy and wipe the collapse the one side and
had a nice run on the inside. Plays. Go to

(37:17):
plays we're talking about this last week. Go to plays
where you know you're gonna get your four, five six yards.
You know, if that means got to go jumbo, gotta
go heavy, you know, and keep bringing him on and
off and stuff. Do that for a while, because you
can really lump up some teams when you bring in
a cheese whopper like Broderick Jones. I mean that guy there,
get him, you know, against a two hundred and fifty

(37:39):
pound stand up guy or defensive end. I like that opportunity.
You know, if he's double team in with chucks on
a guy with his hand in the dirt and he
comes off and he's got a second level shot at
one of those two hundred and thirty pound linebackers. I
like that matchup very well for us. So the more
we can be inclusive people like that, and a little
bit of power running, if we over leverage one side

(38:01):
just for a while until we get some traction going
with this running game, I think that would all be advantageous.
And certainly, you know it's it's I'm not a rocket
scientist in this and don't pretend to be one, and
I play one on the radios when you need them,
you know, But I think a little bit of power
football would be something that would would be advantage advantageous.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Now, by the way, I do think it's great that
Josh Dobbs is actually a rocket scientist. Oh it's not
rocket scientists.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
We got one.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
You know.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
When I first met him, I had to go. You know,
I've said many years that I've not met too many
NASA scientists around here. I go, I have to shake
your hand because you're the first rocket science you know.
I let me ask you to did you have something
to add there?

Speaker 3 (38:41):
Met slightly. I do think it's worth noting. First off,
I love the extra offensive lineman that was a staple
here for a while. And you have a first one guy,
first round guy, get him out there. I do think
it's noting though. This matchup and the upcoming matchup though,
are big time past funnel defenses. You know, like it's
really hard to run on the Jags. Tennessee is similar,

(39:02):
you know, like teams have had success against these defenses,
have done it through the air. I mean few rushing attempts,
a lot of pass attempts through both these teams. Now,
I'm all for power football as a rule of thumb,
no doubt, and the Steelers did it well last year.
But even if you can Bill walshit with quick throws
and control the clock that way, make the throws that

(39:23):
are there against these teams that are, you know, not
great to run against You have to do that too.
There's there's other ways to skin the cat that keep
the time possession up.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
I guess so Wolf. Two things. First of all, I
find it interesting that you know, when a team does
go on a long drive that you're, oh, we got
to get that. We got to get those three hundred
and ten pound defensive linemen off the field. We've got
to get some fresh bodies in there. But the same
five three and ten pound offensive linemen are out there
for the entirety of to drive. I wonder why you
don't get quite as tired. I guess it's an offensive lineman.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
But my you do.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
They just don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, that's right, that's right. That would I tell I'm
not whining about it, so I'm lying.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
I do wonder if for a team, you know, we
were you know, you mentioned a little bit about the
psychology of a team some of the things you can't
quite measure. Is there a feeling that you get going
when you establish an identity and you say this is
what we do and this is who we are, and
you're able to overcome that, you know. I was listening

(40:23):
to another a different podcast. I did listen to Mats
this morning too, in which somebody pointed out that I
think Mike Shanahan is zero to thirty six when trailing
by eight or more points going into the fourth quarter
because that's not their style of football. That's not what
they're built to do. But if you are a team
that says, we run the ball, this is what we do,

(40:45):
can that psychologically lift a team up? Can that give
you Okay, let's get the Steelers football here.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
This is what we do.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
We run the ball.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
There is no question in my mind that when you
are able to physically dominate by running, it's different. Past
there's a different feeling. You know, the defense gives up
a big play and yeah, da d But you go
out there and play after play you hammer away. You
start to see body language occurring on the field, and
that body language are more guys getting up slower after

(41:14):
each play. Defensively speaking, they're getting up slower, they're getting
into the huddle. A little bit later. You hear some
arguing going on, and you know some guys are honked
off at each other. You didn't do this, you didn't
do that, and you know you're getting after them as
an offensive unit, as an offensive line, that's the things
you want to see in the second half. You love
to hear the arguing amongst the defensive guys, you know,

(41:37):
and you love to see the body slowly getting up
rather than jumping to their feet and things like that,
because you know that you're putting a pounding on them
and now you're in a position to give them put
the boots to them. And putting the boots to them.
How we used to refer to finishing off an opponent,
And one of the things that I always go back
to is thinking about the dan Kreider versus ray Lewis

(41:57):
with Jerome Bettis and how in the second half, you
know it'd be pounding away and Dankrider would virtually be
We used to call it the the dan Kreider birthmark
on ray Lewis's chest, you know. I mean, it was
just like you'd see Danny Kriyder boom boom, and they
just would thump and go after each other, and it
was just something cool to watch. Same thing back in

(42:19):
the day when the second half, Franco takes over and boom,
before you know, Rocky's blocking guys and Franco was running wild.
But the domination that starts to come from physically moving opponents,
moving them against their will from point A to point B.
To quote the late great Joe Moore, who was a
pit offensive line coach, one of the greatest ever, made
one of the greatest quotes ever. But certainly that that
is something that you want to achieve.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
And I'm in my mind's I'm thinking about those Oilers,
you know, speaking of the Tennessee Titans now right, the
Houston Oilers and bum Phillips, Rob Carpenter fallback earl, you know, yeah,
three times one receiver like Ken Burrow's like, hey, I'm
over here, Dan, Dan, Pastercini. I can play too, but
just you know, pitching here we come. Because that's kind

(43:01):
of a little bit like what we're talking about. Get
that extra alignment out there, get Washington out there, have
Hayward out there. You know, interesting to see if the
Steelers go to any extreme like that. And you mentioned
how tough Tennessee is to run against. Look, we know Aludkins,
you know, he's the He led the league in tackles
last I think two years and his first or second
was first or second going into this weekend's game in

(43:23):
tackles as well. For the Jaguars. And when you look
at Tennessee, to me, it starts with Simmons up front
and how difficult he is to move and what he
can do in the running game and the passing game.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Yeah, and Aaron Donald's an all time great. But you
just played against a A plus type defensive tackle and
you're gonna play another one on Sunday. I mean, he's
or on Thursday.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
He's that good.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
He's a power player. He would have went much higher.
I mean, he was a mid first round pick, even
though Tennessee knew he was probably wasn't going to play
until like December, I mean because he was injury coming out.
I mean, he's that special physically, and he's been even
better than that. They look like they're rebuilding. There's talk about,
you know, trade deadline, where they going to do well.
They gave him an extension, you know, like you're not

(44:06):
going anywhere, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Knowing would I want to go anywhere for ninety four
million dollars. And they also have you know, they've got
some guys on the edge, and so this is one
of those games. To me, physical front. It's a physical front,
and they have they have multiple guys that they can
bring in to rush the passer off the edge. This
is a game, to me, Wolf in which this offensive
line short turnaround is going to have to figure out

(44:33):
how to deal with these guys. And I guess we
just give us a real quick insight into I know
they didn't have Thursday night games and you were playing,
but what it's.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Like, Actually we did. Actually we actually had a Thursday
night game. Let me tell you about my Thursday week,
all right. Because of the fact that we played a
game on Sunday. We're in sweats on Monday, Tuesday, we're
in pads. Wednesday, were in pads and we're hitting so hard.
John Colby and John Banazak got in a fistfight, uh,
rolling around on the turf of three rivers. We finished
practice on Wednesday, went straight to the airport, food to

(45:04):
Miami and promptly got our butts handed to us Thursday night,
and then you got a long flight back.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
It is a quick turn on you. You'd almost like
to have more time to game plan against a rookie quarterback.
What can you do? I'm sure there's advanced scouts out
there looking and oh yeah, they've already got got tape
and figuring out what to do, but not a lot
of tape on Levis obviously comes in as a rookie.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
I do know this.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
He has got a cannon for gifted. Wow, he's got
a really strong arm.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Yeah, he's a big, strong, strapping guy. A little nugget
on him though, is I just heard this on the
way here. Twenty five percent of his throws this past
week were behind the line of scrimmage, and twenty five
percent of them were long bombs. You know, it was
just get it out of your hand quick to easy
completions or chuck it up for Hopkins. All the intermediate
stuff isn't quite there yet.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
Well.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
For the most complete selection of Steelers merchandise, from official
sideline gear and ethnic memorabilia to our extensive selection of
jerseys and Terrible towels, visit one of the official Steelers
Pro shop stores located at Akroscher Stadium, Grove City, Premium Mountlets,
or Tanger Outlets, or visit us online at shop dot
Steelers dot com for all your Steelers merchandise needs. Directly

(46:14):
from the team for Craig Wolfley and Matt Williams and
I'm Rob King. Thanks for listening to the point after
on Steelers Nation Radio and one oh two point five
DVE