October 29, 2024 • 47 mins
Team insiders Garrett Downing and Clifton Brown discuss the trade for wide receiver Diontae Johnson and what the move means for the Ravens the rest of the season. They also broke down the film from Cleveland to discuss what need to discuss what went wrong in that loss and what changes the team could make.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome into the Lounge podcast presented by DraftKings. I'm Garrett
Downing and I'm joined by Clifton Brown today who's sepping
in for Ryan Make And we've got some breaking news
here today and exciting afternoon in Baltimore, as the Ravens
have agreed to a trade with the Carolina Panthers in
principle to get wide receiver Deontay Johnson, adding a proven
(00:26):
pass catcher to this team. According to reports, it's a
pick swap. The Ravens swap fifth and sixth round picks
with the Carolina Panthers, give up for fifth, get the
six in return as well as Deontay Johnson. So an
exciting move for this offense. And just to kind of
set the stage here as we get into this conversation,
news happens fast, all right, It can happen at any point.
(00:47):
So we had actually recorded a podcast already looking at
the film from the game on Sunday and dissecting that
and everything that happened in that game. After we recorded that,
the Deontay Johnson news broke, So we are recording this
portion of the podcast discussing the trade, and then on
the back half of this the second half of this
it's going to be the conversation, the typical film review
(01:08):
with Cliff and I breaking down everything that happened from
the game on a Sunday. So, Cliff, back to Deontay
Johnson in this move, I mean, it's exciting. You get
a proven guy here, former eleven hundred yard receiver adding
him to this offense. What was your take when you
heard the news?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, liked it, adding another weapon to the wide receiver corps.
Guys you mentioned, you know, had eleven hundred yard season
in twenty twenty one. He's only twenty eight years old,
so certainly, you know, not on the downside of his career.
He's also been very durable sixteen games, fifteen games, sixteen games,
(01:42):
seventeen games. Looking at his first four seasons. Free agent
after the season, should be motivated getting out of Carolina
joining the Ravens. I know that would make me happy
if I were him. So yeah, I think there's a
lot to like about this move. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Johnson this year thirty catches for three hundred and fifty
seven yards three touchdowns for the Panthers. Obviously that offense
is not like, it's not the Ravens offense. It's not
one that's putting up monster numbers this year, but you know,
he's been productive in that offense. I think that he
gives the Ravens a couple of things. He gives them
a proven guy who can make big catches and huge situations,
(02:22):
which you don't really ever have a shortage of need
in that regard. You also get somebody who can take
the top off the defense. He's got explosive potential, and
so it's another dynamic weapon in an offense that's already
full of them. But you add a vertical threat, and
you add a really reliable player from a health and
(02:42):
from a just pass catching standpoint to this offense, and
there's you can never really have too many of those guys.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
No, you can't. And that's a good point about you know,
his explosiveness, you know, playing with the quarterback like Lamar
Jackson too. I mean, you know you mentioned Carolina was
struggling offense. He was one of their main weapons. Now
he joins his offense where there are so many weapons
and the opponents have the game plan for so many
other people. He should see a lot of one on
(03:11):
one coverage. Uh, he will be in a position where
you know all the intentions not on him, and to me,
playing with the quarterback like Lamar, that only helps him.
I mean we know him from going against the Steelers
twice a year. You know he's a guy capable of
making big plays. You know he's tough. Also in this offense,
Derek Vy's a guy who you know will throw a
(03:32):
block down field to try and spring Derek just like
the rest of these guys are. So I think he's
a good fit. And you know, going down the stretch,
the Ravens you know, are Super Bowl contender, and just
because they had an off game Sunday against Cleveland, you
can't discount where this team could go and just bring
in another weapon, you know, someone again if there's an injury,
(03:54):
hevn't forbid in that position. Now they also have a
little more depth to withstand that.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, I think that depth is is probably something you
hope you don't. You hope you don't have to go
down the depth chart, right. You hope that everyone stays
healthy and it's not ever an issue or a concern.
But it's important to have that depth. And I still
think from a as I look at this offense and
like the question becomes how is he going to fit
(04:20):
along with Rasha Bateman and Zay Flowers. I think Zay
and Bateman remain the one and two options for this team.
I think that they've gotten to a pretty good groove.
I know Bateman didn't have the best game on Sunday,
you know, had the one that he lost in the sun.
I'm not going to hold that against him too much.
He was coming off a career game the week before.
So I think Bateman's been a productive player, and I
think that him and Zay have a really good feel
(04:41):
for this offense. And Lamar and just they're playing well
right now. So I think that those two guys will
remain as one and two. But it's good to have
depth behind them, and there's still certainly plenty of situations.
We have three wide receivers on the field, and so
putting Deontay Johnson is the third receiver on the field,
I think just makes this offense even more explosive. Plus
(05:03):
you it allows you to keep Say and Bateman fresh.
So there could be situations where it's Bateman and Deontay
Johnson on the field, it's Zay and Deontay Johnson on
the field as well as the two tight ends and
Recard and Henry, Like, I just think it gives you
more options as an offense. And I think it also
speaks to the Ravens just looking for opportunities to improve.
(05:26):
And that's not like a small thing to me. They
know that they are in their window of opportunity right
now with Lamar Jackson, who's in the prime of his career,
who's looking to win that Super Bowl, who's doing everything
he can, and and so or so many other guys
on the team. But the Ravens are a hungry bunch
and they're looking at this team saying the pieces are
(05:48):
there for this group to win it all, like that
potential exists for this team. Let's make it as good
as possible by adding a proven pass catcher, a dynamic
play to the offense and see if that can that
could be something that helps get the team over the top.
I just think that Eric Tacosta is always looking for
ways to improve, and this is a side to me
(06:10):
that they know that, like they're all in. They have
been for a while now, but they're all in this
year and this is just another indication of that.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, I mean, you know, look at the last time Ravens,
you know, won a Super Bowl, you know, an Kwon, Bolden,
Torri Smith, late Gray Jakobe Jones. I mean that that
was a three deep wide receiver corps. This one, you know,
you can say it's more than three deep, but certainly
we've already talked about the depth. I think Johnson is
going to get a boost coming to a team they
(06:40):
can contend. I mean, I think about ro qwand Smith
a couple of years ago, leaving Chicago and coming to
Baltimore already a great player, but then coming to a
team like Baltimore that really was in the thicket of things.
It was, Yeah, he loved it. I think Johnson's gonna
have the same reaction. Yeah. I just feel like you've
already talked about when you have a shot to win
(07:02):
it all, which the Ravens do, then you definitely, I think,
are in the mindset of if there's a guy available
that we can get to maybe put us over the top,
we can I'm not going to put that kind of
pressure on Deontay is like he's a missing link. But
even even after this year, you know he's a free agent.
(07:22):
Guys you know, always talking about how much they love
playing in Baltimore. Maybe this isn't just you know, a
end of the season thing. Maybe he could be signed here.
So it could be something that you know, he's coming now,
this could be all of it, or you know, he
could end up staying. You know, we've even seen a
guy like Unique and got Way leave and then come back,
you know, years later. So most people who come here
(07:45):
love playing here. I think he'll be the same way.
And I think he will help this offense.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, you mentioned y'a Nique and Arizacosta has a track
record of this over the last several years. He's added
Marcus Peters at the deadline, Rookwan Smith, Yannikin Gakway, came
close reportedly to adding Derek Henry last year before that
trade fell through, and now Deontay Johnson. So there, he's
(08:10):
always looking for ways to improve this team and this
is just another indication of that. I think another part
of it too is a financial piece. Yes, Deontay Johnson's
he's a free agent out to the season. So the
potential is there that is that this is a rental.
Who knows, you know, you never know, he could end
up signing and getting extended. That's what happened with Marcus Peters,
(08:30):
Andro kwand Smith. So now Joannique left in free agency
that offseason, so it could go either way, you don't know.
But from a financial standpoint, it's not a it's not
a huge hit to the Ravens. And this year Deontay
Johnson had just a three point eight million dollar cap
hit and according to Jeff's Reebek, the Ravens are only
(08:50):
going to end up owing him about six hundred and
twenty five thousand the rest of the way, So it's
not like this is a big it's not a big
cost to the Ravens from a financial standpoint. It's also
not a big cost from a draft picks standpoint. You're
just swapping fifth and six round picks, so you're getting
a really good player who has the potential to help
(09:12):
elevate your offense, and it's coming at a low cost,
so high potential, low risk, high reward type move. It
just seems to make a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Right And you know, Eric the COASA has talked about it.
You know, now that you know Lamar and Stein, we're
in the era where you know, we're making financial moves.
The Ravens are, you know, with Lamar's contract on the
books and others, so they have to be, you know,
a little more creative. There'll be some moves that they
might want to make, but you know, financially, it's not
(09:43):
brutin So, yeah, this is the type of move that fits,
you know, the type of where they are now. A
contender that you know has has some players that you
know are really talented and are well compensated, but you're
still always trying to build the team as strong as
you can around those pieces. And yeah, this is this
is a nice piece to me for the last second
(10:06):
half of the season and going in the playoffs, another
weapon for Lamar, more depth for the wide receiver room. Yeah,
I mean, the Ravens are gonna be playing some big
games obviously from here on out. He's a guy that
could really help them. You never know. I mean, he
don't have to be a guy who catches fifty balls
the rest of the way, but he could make some
big plays at timely moments down the stretch to help
(10:28):
you win. And he also has an experience as a returner,
so we'll see if he's using that role too, but
he has done that before in the past.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So just to close, the book on this conversation, Cliff,
you know, theink's not even dry and the paperwork for
this thing yet. And the question then becomes what's next?
So is this in your mind? Is this the move
that the Ravens make before the deadline? Could there be
more to come? What is your What do you make
(10:58):
of that conversation? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I think with EEDC there could always be another move
to come. We still got, you know, till November fifth,
to the trade deadline. I don't think he's gonna turn
his phone off. So yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna
say this is the move. And you know, you know
how these things work. There may be a deal that
they haven't even talked about yet, an offer they haven't
(11:21):
heard yet. As the deadline gets closer, teams are gonna
be more, you know, maybe throw something your way that okay,
well we weren't gonna do that last week, but okay,
now we're ready to do this. So no, I would
never say this is the move. But the Ravens are
in a good spot because if they don't make another move,
they still have a team good enough to win a
(11:42):
Super Bowl. If they do make another move and get
a proven player like Johnson another proven player. Then they
could put themselves in even better position to win a
Super Bowl. So yeah, the roster is deep. There's another
piece to it. Don't know what it's going to be
the last mover or now, but you know, with EDC
you never say never.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah on that. The point that I'll make is the
Ravens and Eric do an excellent job of keeping things
super quiet until the move happens. That you go back
and look at these moves, it has been radio silence
up until the news drops that a move has been made.
That was the case, like with Roquan that was the
(12:25):
case with Enny kin Gakway. I remember that was case. Nobody.
It's not like there have been rumors for two weeks.
You compare it to like the DeVante Adams, you know,
conversation like that lingered for two weeks, and it seemed
like there was a lot of talk about the Jets
and him, like Deontay Johnson. There was no talk about
the Ravens and him until the tweets went out this
afternoon from any rapport and Adam Schefter and the insiders
(12:47):
basically saying this move is done and so that Ravens
conduct business quietly as everybody else talks about this team.
And that's the way that that Eric DaCosta and this
front office operates. So I don't always think that rumors
out there are an indication of whether a move is
gonna happen or not. So exciting day, really exciting move
(13:08):
for this team. And as I said off the top
of the podcast, here we are now gonna gut it
get into the film review portion of the podcast, which
we recorded before the Deontay Johnson News. So here's Cliff
and I breaking down the film from Sunday's game and
discussing where the team goes from here. This one was
not the most fun to look back at. Sometimes you're
excited to look back at the tape and the film
(13:30):
and relive a game and look at all the big moments.
This was not one of those games. But we did
the hard job there, Cliff, of looking back at this
one to break it all down and provide our thoughts.
And this is what the Ravens coaches and players are doing,
certainly this week, is trying to learn from this one,
what went wrong in this game and where they can
improve moving forward the rest of the way. So I
(13:51):
think the conversation with this game really starts on the defense.
The defense has some issues certainly in this one. So
just to start the converse, when you look back at
this game, what stood out to you about the Ravens
defense and how it played.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, in my opinion, too many of the Browns completions
were too easy. There were guys receivers for the Browns
left wide open on several occasions. Jameis Winston had too
much time to throw on many occasions, and the Ravens
could just not consistently stop the Browns through the air.
(14:28):
Jameis Winson over three hundred yards passing, making his first
start since twenty twenty two. Yeah, this is a game.
If the Ravens had gotten a strong defensive performance, they
would have vaulted away with the victory. But they just
could not get a handle on containing the Browns passing game.
And that has been a consistent scene theme for the
(14:50):
Ravens defense all year. They're ranked last in the NFL
in pass defense. So until that is fixed, they are
not going to be able to play the type of
football defensively that they want to, and there's going to
be a lot of pressure on the offense to carry
them and try and lead them to victories.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, the question really on the defense is like, what's
going wrong? And this has been a common theme. It's
not been something that just crept up in this game.
We've we've seen this at times over the course of
the season, and it's not what anybody of us, anyone expected,
I think when we were doing our prediction podcast and
all that at the start of the season, we were
saying this defense is going to be one of the
(15:29):
best in the league, and even more specifically and talking
about the secondary, nobody was looking at the seam feeling like, man,
the secondary is going to be a weakness of the team.
A lot of capital that's invested in that group, both
both from a draft picks standpoint and from a financial standpoint,
and so it's it's surprising. I'm as surprised as anybody
that the defense has struggled the way the way that
they have this season, and putting your finger on exactly
(15:51):
what it is is kind of challenging. One thought this
week that's been floated out there in the in the
film world is that the Ravens have been trying to
disguise too much, and that's been that's led to problems.
And so if you're trying to disguise, you're showing zone,
but then it's actually man. You're showing man, it's actually zone.
(16:12):
You're showing blitz, but then you're not actually blitzing. You know,
that can make things difficult on a quarterback who's assessing
everything in the line of scrimmage, but it can also
create problems for the defense who's then got to get
back into the defense that they're actually playing after going
through all the disguises. So when you look at it,
and you've heard from John Harbaugh when he was asked
about that this week, what's your take on that the
(16:35):
conversation as it relates to the way that the Ravens
are disguising things and trying to disguise things at the
line of scrimmage.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Well, if you're going to disguise a lot or a little,
you have to do it being organized. So you know,
you could talk about whether they're disguising too much, but
they aren't disguising well enough no matter how often they're
doing it, and they're not confusing the opposing quarterback consistently enough.
I mean, Jamis Winston did not look confused. Sunday he
(17:05):
looked like he wanted knew where he wanted to go.
Many times the person he wanted to throw to was
wide open. There were a couple of occasions where he
made inaccurate passes and the Ravens dropped those opportunities. So yes,
I mean, if they are being confused or can't get
aligned properly because they're disguising too much, then maybe they'll
(17:30):
have to cut back on the disguise and just play
more basic. But the key to me is you just
can't give away possessions to the approach to the offense
because you're not lined up properly because certain guys don't
know who they're supposed to pick up and guys are
left wide open. It's just too easy right now for
(17:53):
opponents to complete passes against the raven and it's hurting
them in big situations at the goal line and the
red zone for the game, when he touched down the
brown that in big situations, the Ravens are giving up
too many big plays.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, and there does seem to be at times confusion.
On the first touchdown that the Browns scored, Roquanda and
a Daffiel way, we're kind of talking to each other
and looked like there was confusion in terms of where
the Ravens should be lined up, and that is something
that we have seen at times and John Harbaugh and
when when talked to talking about that this week, he
(18:30):
made the point that, you know, that is something that
can happen. It's pretty common when he watches tape around
the NFL where teams are i guess confused or not
fully lined up at the snap. And a lot of
that has to do with the way that the offenses
operate two minute four minute offenses, no no huddle up,
tempo substitution and creating problems for the defense. And so
(18:54):
there's there's truth in that. But the other part of it,
of course, is that it's you can't have it because
it costs you. And so even if it's happening with
other teams, it's still costing the Ravens that did certainly
on that first Cedric Tillman touchdown. So those are things
from an operations standpoint that definitely need to get cleaned up.
And that's the that's a focus. The other big problem
(19:15):
and challenge in this game was that the Ravens just
dropped too many picks and like that's not from an
organization standpoint. That's just if you got the ball in
your hands, you gotta squeeze, you got to you gotta
catch it. And I'm sure there's nobody who's more frustrated
on that front than Kyle Hamilton, who had a game
winner in his in his grasp and just couldn't bring
(19:36):
it in. And that's a play that he's gonna make
nine out of ten times, and it's just disappointing that
he wasn't able to make it. And so we're gonna
read a couple of emails over the course of the show.
As always, you can email us at the lounge at
Ravens donfl dot net if we read your email on
the air. We are still giving out T shirts, So
this is still maybe a disappointing week. But the good
(19:56):
news here is there's gonna be some people that get
rewarded with the line T shirt. One of people who's
going to get that T shirt is Anthony Alvino, and
he writes, I'm a huge Ravens fan from New York.
I was cringing watching the game play this week. So
my question is what should the Ravens be focused on
leading into the Broncos game this week. Should they have
more catching drills as a defense in practice, giving that
(20:19):
they dropped easy interceptions. If you eliminated Marlon Humphrey from
the equation, you'd only have one interception for the whole season,
making the team tied for thirty second in the game.
This game alone could have brought the team to eight
nine for the season in terms of interceptions. I mean,
the Ravens dropped three ones that were pretty clear cut
too by Eddy Jackson, one by Kyle Hamilton. I'm concerned
(20:39):
on if the defense will continue to come up with
a big play when they need to most So, what
are your thoughts on the defense dropping those picks, Cliff,
and whether that's something that they can address in practice.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Well, obviously they're going to try to address it, but
it's not like haven't been doing drills on the jugs
machine and turnover drills and game situations are hard to
simulate completely in practice, So I mean it's extremely frustrating.
I think if there was a quick fix, it would
(21:11):
have already been fixed. You just have to hope that
one the Ravens keep getting in position to make interceptions,
because that's the first thing you have to do, which
they are, and secondly that when those opportunities arise, that
they do a better job catching the ball. But I
don't think there's a magic formula for it. They obviously
(21:32):
are well aware of it. It is going to be
a key though, to the rest of their season. Defensively.
I mean, those type players can win you and lose
your games. Marlon Humphrey, that play he can't put in Cincinnati,
I don't think the Ravens win that game without that play.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And maybe in Tampa too. Also, like that first interception
he got in Tampa, it's probably the same story. I
don't know if the Ravens win that game without that
first and then of course the second interception, but.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
It's a dogfight, absolutely, yeah best and then yeah, yeah,
obviously the one Kyle had, the game is basically over. Certainly,
if they get another first down, it's definitely over. So
that can cost you a win or a loss. If
they can't fix this problem. They are well aware of it,
they are working on it. You just have to hope
that they find a way to fix it.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, definitely. When John Harber was talking about it on Monday,
he made the point that he feels like the interceptions
that have been dropped, it's kind of low hanging fruit
for this defense and thinks those players are going to
get made in the future. I don't think it's like
the classic thing whenever you drop a big pass or
a big interception is get on the judge machine time
(22:39):
time put on the jukes work this week. And I
get that it's a natural response, But I don't think
that the inability to bring down these interceptions is just
related to the fact that the Ravens haven't practiced that
this week, or these guys don't have work on the
jugs machine that says. I don't think that's the case.
I think there's a lot of individual for each one.
(23:01):
And like the Kyle Hamilton one, like that's as easy
of a pick is he's maybe ever had a pick
opportunity in his career that was right to him, and
and so like he's got plenty good hands to catch
that ball, he just didn't catch it in that situation
for whatever reason. I think that I do agree with
John Harball that sometimes turn overs can be fluky, and
(23:21):
like you drop a pick like that, that's typically not
one that happens, and the Ravens are going to make
that play more time than not, and that can change
the outcome and the and the course of this defense
for the rest of the way if they're able to
come up with some of those picks. I also think though,
that when you have something like this going on, it
can get in the back of your mind and it's
there and until you eliminate it, until you prove that
(23:43):
it's not an issue, it's going to be an issue.
It's kind of like the conversation we were having with
Justin Tucker a few weeks ago, is if you know
that this thing is going on, if you've if you've
had these difficulties, if you had some moments there, you've
come up with plays that you've missed, how are you
going to be able to overcome them? And the Ravens
need to prove in those situations that they can overcome
(24:04):
those moments when they have the opportunity. So I think
that that I think it can happen. But the Ravens
they need the pick, they need the play. They need
to come up with a big moment in order to
squash the notion that this is something that's going to
bother them the rest of the way. So as we're
talking about takeaways naturally. An important part of this conversation
is the safety position. The Ravens made a big change
(24:26):
at safety this week. Marcus Williams has been the start
here for a few years, was not the start of
this week. Eddie Jackson and our Darius Washington replaced him
in the lineup. They played one hundred percent of the
snaps and Marcus Williams did not see any action. John
Harball has been asked about this a few times after
the game and again on Monday, and described it as
(24:46):
a personnel decision, but didn't want to get into the
details of exactly what went into the change of that position.
He expressed confidence that Marcus would be able to play
safety again at a high level this year and said,
I don't really think I have anything else to say
about it. There's a lot of things that go that
are going on all the time. A lot of it
is kind of our business that belongs in house, is
between us, and it's not something that we need to
(25:08):
tell everybody about. So that's where he left it on
the conversation related to Marcus no longer being in the
starting lineup, at least in the game against the Browns.
So a question here is from Ronnie Smith, who says
that one was hard to swallow. This is my first
time writing this season, but I felt compelled. I think
everybody that's a Ravens fan is finding it hard to
fathom how our secondary can be seemingly so disorganized, especially
(25:32):
at deep safety. Average NFL quarterbacks seem to be picking
it apart. So we've got to shake it up. Is
bo Braid a potential option at safety Maryland product, undrafted
rookie or I'm intrigued by the potential of adding a
veteran at the trade deadline? So what's your thought on
what happens at safety and if bo Braid could be
(25:52):
in the equation there? Clip.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, my thought is that anything's on the table at
this point. I don't think anyone saw that coming that
Marcus Williams wouldn't play at all, particularly on a day
where they were already shorthanded in the secondary with Marlon
Humphrey and Nate Wiggins not able to play. So yeah,
(26:14):
I mean, the trade deadline is looming. I'm sure that
you know, the Ravens will consider at least seeing if
there's somebody out there who can help them and then
with the personnel that's on the roster, could we see
someone who hasn't played much start playing, like a Boat
(26:35):
Brady or someone else. Certainly I think it's possible. Could
they go back to Marcus Williams. Maybe? I mean, I
really don't know. It's going to be really interesting to
see where you go from here, because I don't think
anyone saw this coming, and it's not like the changes
they made fixed things, so the issue was still there.
(26:55):
They made changes and lost the game still had in
the secondary, So it will be interesting to see where
they go here. What I would only be guessing, and
I'm really cure, is to see what happens.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I mean, I think often the easy answer is it's
like the backup quarterback syndrome. The easy answer is just
change to people who are in that position. Just swap
it out bench this guy, insert that guy. And sometimes
you need to do that, and it is the right
decision to do that given the player and the position.
But other times there are other fixes beyond just replace
(27:33):
that person and we'll see what the Ravens end up doing.
Maybe it's Marcus who ends up getting inserted back into
the lineup. Maybe it is a combination of Marcus Ardarius
and Eddie Jackson and Bo Braid potentially too. I mean,
he's an undrafted rookie, so I think that, like the
suggestion that he could just step into that role and
play one hundred percent of the snaps, like, that's a
(27:54):
tall order for a young player, and I don't know
if the Ravens will go that route. I'd be a
little bit surprised if they just said, Okay, Bo, you're
going to be the starting safety playing one hundred percent
of the snaps right now. He was a talented guy
who showed potential in the preseason, but that's that's a
tough assignment there for a young player. So I think
that the Ravens will I'm with you. I think they'll
continue to look at everything as it relates to that
(28:16):
position and finding ways that they can get better organized
as a secondary as a whole, with safety being a
huge piece of that. The other go.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Ahead, Yeah, and I'll just say it's too that you know,
obviously there's a lot of focus on the secondary, but
this is a defensive unit issue. I mean pass defense,
it's not just the secondary, it's the entire defense. They're
not getting pressure on quarterbacks as much as they would
like to. They're not stopping the running game as much
as they would like to, which makes it easier for
(28:46):
them to be attacked, you know, particularly on third down
when it's third and short, you know, instead of third
and eight or longer, then it's easier to complete a
pass for a first down. Their pass coverage to the
linebacker level hasn't been good enough, so all those things
are making it harder on the secondary, and then they're
not playing as well as they would like to. So
(29:08):
it's a collective thing. And yes, just because you make
a change at safety or anywhere else doesn't necessarily fix
the problem. But again I did not see, you know,
Marcus Williams, that change coming where you wouldn't play at all.
And now obviously that was not the solution. So it
is up in the air to me where the Ravens
(29:30):
go from here.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
One last thought on defense, after looking at some of
the film breakdowns, the Ravens closed out the game on
defense with six straight cover zero blitzes, which is where
you blitz everybody who doesn't have a specific player that
they're covering from a man's standpoint, and so that leaves
everybody else in a one on one matchup man coverage
(29:54):
with the receivers, tight ends, running backs coming out of
the backfield. So it's a tougher assignment for those guys
and coverage because they don't have help over the top.
It's an aggressive play call to go with that. So
the Ravens finished out things on defense. Six straight Covers
your Blizzes. Dan Rolofski from ESPN did a pretty good
breakdown on this and looking at this and he felt
(30:16):
like it was maybe too aggressive and predictable. What I like,
I'm curious your take on this, because my honest feeling
is I don't really mind it when you consider that
covers your blitzes is boom er busts and the Ravens
were not getting pass rush, they were not getting to
Jameis Winston throughout the game, and so when you bring
(30:38):
the house, there's more likelihood that you're going to be
able to get to the quarterback. And the worst case
scenario basically happened, which is you give up the big
play for a touchdown. But to be honest, like that
big play for a touchdown is better than the true
worst case scenario, which is the Browns only needed a
field goal on that drive. The worst case scenario is
that you never get the ball back and the Browns
(31:01):
just end up settling for a thirty five yard field
goal so to win the game as it expires, and
that's how you lose the game. So I like basically
trying to bring the pressure to the quarterback and if
it doesn't work, first of all, hopefully it works. If
it doesn't work, which is what happened in this situation,
then you at least do get the ball back with
(31:21):
the potential to go down the field and have a
shot to win it at the end, which the Ravens did.
They had a couple shots at the end zone there
at the end. So what's your take on the cover
zero blizzes to end this say? For the Ravens defense, Yeah,
I agree with you, Garrett.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I mean, if they get home on one or two
of those blitzes and push them into a position where
either they have a longer field goal or out of
field goal range, then no one's talking about this. If
Kyle Hamilton catches it exactly exactly, no one's talking about this.
So they actually got the result in a way that
(32:00):
they were looking for. Jameis Winsdon threw a ball up
for grabs that Kyle Hamilton should have caught, he didn't,
and then on the next play they got burned. So,
like you said, it was a do or die situation.
They didn't do so that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah, all rightlet's take a quick break. When we come back,
we'll look at the offensive side of the football. You're
listening to the Lounge podcast. We're coming to you from
the Seakeek studio. We also want to mention our partners
Draft Kings Sportsbook. They're an official sports betting partner or
the Baltimore Ravens Draft Kings Sportsbook. The Crown is yours.
So in looking at the Ravens offense, I don't think
(32:41):
it was a perfect day at all for the offense.
I think most of the focuses understandably on the defense,
but I thought that the offense, you know, it didn't
have its best day of work, especially what we given
what we had seen over the course of the five
game winning streak, this was one where I felt like
the Ravens kind of lost the battle in the trenches
and that the brown have an aggressive style. They were
(33:02):
able to get in the backfield disrupt things in the
running game and in the passing game. I thought that
was a big factor in the way that this offense operated.
Did you see it that way as well?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I did? You know? Lamar Jackson was hurried in a
lot of situations, would have been sacked more often more
than he was if not for his loosiveness. I think
that part of reason that Derrick Henry didn't have one
of his big games because the Browns defensive line was
winning up front, making it tough for Henry to find
(33:37):
running lanes to get to when he got the football. Yeah,
so I thought the Browns won up front and that, yes,
made life difficult for the Ravens offense. The Ravens, I thought,
played better offensively as a game. Progressed Lamar and you know,
other playmakers kept them in the game. But yeah, that
(33:58):
was the most difficult game they've had offensively in a while.
And part of the reason was because the Browns on
a lot of occasions were in the backfield quickly, whether
Ravens chose to run it or throw it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
According to Pro Football Focus, some of the numbers here
on pressures allowed I'll run through it along the offensive line.
Dang folele allowed six, Ronnie Stanley five, Roger Rosegarten four,
Patrick McCarey two, Tyler Linderbaum won. So those guys were
allowing pressure. Browns were forcing Lamar Jackson to move out
(34:35):
around the pocket. I think on some of those plays,
ninety percent of the quarterbacks in the league end up
getting sacked. But he was able to get outside the
pocket and either throw it away or take a chance
down the field, even at the very end of the game,
just to keep the final play alive, to heave it
down the field for a prayer. Most guys don't make
(34:55):
that play, and I think he deserves a lot of
credit for that. The other thing I think where this
showed up from a pressure standpoint, there was the play
talked about a good amount after the game on Sunday,
the missed touchdown opportunity to save Flowers in the first half,
Ravens had to settle for a field goal. If you
go back and you look at the film with that
(35:16):
play save Flowers, I mean, he's so shifty in his
route running. He made about seven different moves on Denzel
Ward to ultimately get open and end up wide open
in the end zone, and Lamars overshot him when you
go back and look at the film with that. First
of all, it's difficult to time up that throw because
Zay was just bouncing all over the place to get
open and then all of a sudden he breaks free.
(35:36):
But it's hard to time up exactly what that route's
going to look like because that seemed to be more
of just a feel thing in him getting open on
a scramble trill. And then the second part of it
is when Lamar did release it, he had a guy
right in his face. He had a guy Barren Downhill
right in his face, which made it very difficult to
deliver a pass that was on the money. So when
you see when you see the receiver running wide open
(35:58):
in the end zone for a touchdown and the balls
four yards past him, you're just like, oh, how does
that happen? You had him wide open? What Like, that's
an easy throw. I think it was a little bit
more difficult when you look at it on film.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, I mean, Lamar had a lot of difficult throws
Sunday because of the pressure. There were some he didn't
get the throw, and as you mentioned, it throws off
the timing of the play. You don't expect the guy
to be right in your face, you know, a couple
of seconds after you snapped the ball, and that happened
a couple of times to Lamar. So his ability to
(36:30):
extend blades kept some plays alive. But the Ravens need
to give him more comfort in the pocket on a
regular basis than they did Sunday if they don't, you know,
moving forward, you know, the Steelers come to mind, you know,
team that can really pressure the quarterback. They in those
(36:50):
playing those type teams down the road. They're going to
have to give Lamar more comfort in the pocket than
they did Sunday if they're going to move the ball
effectively consistently throughout the game.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
So another issue in this game. The Ravens were penalized again.
You know, they've been penalized a good amount this year.
This is a question from Jess in Seattle. Disheartened but hopeful.
I promise this isn't hate mail. Is how this email
starts off. So I appreciate that, and she says, typically
the Ravens are commended for their discipline and a limited
number of penalties. But I know we all have opinions
(37:24):
about some of those penalties, like Ronnie getting penalized at
the Chiefs game for a legal formation or fall a
Lea's holding call against the Bucks. But it seems like
there have been way more penalties this year. Are the
Ravens not playing with as much discipline as the past?
Are other teams experiencing in upticking penalties as well? I'd
like to think this is fixable. It'd be great to
hear your thoughts on why the Ravens are one of
the most penalized teams in the NFL this year. What's
(37:46):
your take on that, Cliff, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I think there's a, you know, multiple multiple factors with that.
I think that, you know, having three new starters on
the offensive line, the defensive confusion we've talked about, all
those things lead to an increase in penalties. I don't
think the Ravens are playing quote undisciplined football, but they
(38:11):
are making too many mistakes and it's something they need
to cut down on because those penalties are heart There's
also been penalties. I shouldn't leave out special teams too.
There's been penalties on special teams that have hurt them. So, yes,
they are committing too many penalties. They do need to
cut down. I do think it's fixable and big picture
even beyond. We are sitting here, certainly after this game
(38:36):
talking about all the things the Ravens didn't do. They're
five and three, but I think almost I still think
most people would consider them to be one of the
top teams in football. And they began the season zero
to two, so clearly they have a ceiling that's higher
(38:57):
than where they are right now. The question is whether
they're going to be able to get to it. They're
going to have to play better to do that, obviously,
but I do think there is reason to be I
think in the beginning that letter you know, or that
you know email cause is the optimistic. There's reason for
optimism because with all the things that the Ravens aren't
(39:19):
doing as well as we think they can. They are
five and three after overcoming an h and two start,
so seasons just about halfway over, even though there is
really no half any more. Sefteen games. They've got what
nine games left, right They're ready, you know, they're in position,
you know, still to have a really good season if
(39:42):
they can correct these issues. The question is will.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
They Cliff's still optimistic. I like the optimism from Cliff
here a little a little good perspective here as we're
recording a couple of quick notes I want to hit
before we before we wrap up. One is an interesting
play the Ravens have run, or at least tempted to
run a few different times this year. Is Charlie Kohler
at quarterback on these quarterback sneaks. They tried it again
(40:05):
on Sunday. He was penalized for a false start where
he basically try to oversell the cadence and dipped his
head trying to sell that. And so the question is like,
why are you putting your tight end at quarterback? What's
going on here? And John Hartwall did provide some perspective
on that, and basically the Ravens have apprehension about using
(40:27):
Lamar as some of those quarterback seats. They want to
be protective of him. He runs the ball a lot
more than a lot of other quarterbacks, takes a lot
of hits. So do you really need him in those situations,
you know, getting crunched from guys behind him and guys
in front of him. Put in Charlie Kohler, who's a
big two hundred and fifty pound tight end there who
can move the pile. That's the thinking on those plays. Now,
(40:51):
what's happened now on two different occasions this year is
Charlie was flagged for the false start of that play.
Earlier in the season against the Raiders, Derrick Henry was
flagged for a false start on that play. And so
there seems to be confusion or a lack of certainly
a lack of execution, but the organization on those plays
(41:12):
does not seem to be up to the level that
is needed. And I'm just curious what's your take on that,
the route that the Ravens are going and what they
need to do in order to clean up the miscuse
that they've had.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Well, honestly, I don't have a problem with Lamar not
running the quarterback sneak. I do have a problem with
you know, doing making it too. I don't know that
exotic or cute when you're that close to the goal
line and when a penalty can really hurt you. I mean,
you have Derek Henry in the backfield, you have Pat
through the card, the best blocking fall back in the league.
(41:48):
My feeling is, if you don't want to run Lamar
on a sneak, which is fine either, just hand the
ball to n read block it up. And yeah, if
if the other team keeps you from out of the
out of the end zone in that situation, hats off
to him, they win.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Right, Because it's kind of it's kind of twofold as
there were two players that really where this came up.
One was the Henry play down inside the red zone.
The other was the cooler QB sneak in the middle
of the field but on short yard of situations. So
it's like two short yard situations, one closer to the
goal line, one in the middle of the field. But yeah,
I mean it's a fair it's a fair point. It's
like you have Henry. Just give it to him, just
(42:26):
so don't overthink it. Just give it to him. I
get that right exactly.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
And sure, I mean there there are other things you
Lamar also has the option if he sees something he likes.
John Harbaal said, as far as the quarterback sneak, he
has the option option of audibly into that. So it's
not like Lamar can't run the quarterback sneak if he
sees an opening, and certainly also in short yardage when
(42:50):
Lamar is on the field, even if he's not going
to be the guy running the football. He is a threat.
He has to be defended. So I kind of you
don't like taking Lamar off the field, even if he's
not going to be the guy who gets the football.
So I'd rather have him out there, whether it's goline
or short lar yard or somewhere else on the field,
(43:11):
have him out there, and if you don't, you know,
use him as a runner, then let him have a
hand handed off to Derek Andry. And I like my
chances with that.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
My take is a QB sneak with Charlie Kohler should
be basically unstoppable. It should be in theory like this
is a big guy who can just plow ahead. You
got Ricard and Henry pushing him from behind to get
the extra yards toush push style. So in theory it
should be unstoppable. But two times now they've had cadence
(43:44):
issues on that play, and so clearly they need to
get that worked out if you're gonna keep if you're
gonna keep running that play, which I understand, but you
need to figure out the organization of it before you
If you have that issue, if you don't even get
to a point where he's snapped, then it's not productive,
and so they need to figure that out. It's not stoppable.
(44:04):
If you don't even get to snap it, it's no
longer unstoppable exactly, all right. So you mentioned this special teams.
The Ravens have had issues on special teams bring the
ball out of the end zone and getting penalized. And
so you have the offense it felt like it was
starting from the ten yard line every drive in this game.
On the on multiple instances of the game this week,
(44:28):
Chris Colier, the kick returner, brought it out of the
en zone. He just shouldn't have done it. He should
have left it in the end zone. And that's basically
been the Ravens operation all year long. If it's kicked
into the end zone, just take it at the thirty.
But there's been plenty of instances where the Ravens have
brought it out of the end zone, and it sounds like,
based on what John Harbo's saying, the returners are just
kind of losing where they are on the field and
(44:49):
still bringing it out when they shouldn't have the green
light to do that, right.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I mean, getting the ball to thirty is fine. So
unless you have to be earn it. There really isn't
much reason to do it this year. And John Hope
also mentioned that the blogging angles are difficult with the
new alignment if you do decide to run it out.
So yeah, I mean those are mistakes. I mean, we
(45:14):
could talk about it all we want, but that and
whether they have someone else now returning it, or if
Chris Kelly and whoever is returning it gets the message
and stops doing it. Yeah, it's something that needs to
be fixed. But I think after this game the message
is very clear that, you know, don't do that, don't
(45:36):
bring the ball out of end zone on kickoffs when
we're perfectly fine with getting the ball at the thirty
yard line.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
So clearly the raves side issues, you know, in this
game kind of in all three phases. And that's just
another example of that. So as as we conclude here, Cliff,
I want to I've mentioned before the emails you can
emails at the Lounge or evens ond NFL dot net.
We're giving away Lounge T shirts, and I want to
end here with a little levity. This email says they
say the first step towards forgiveness is owning your mistakes.
(46:03):
It was me. I washed the lucky shirt every week
for the last five weeks. I wore the shirt proudly,
we the Ravens, and I played much better. Celebration ensued.
Marching band songs were saying. Beer may have been spilled,
wing sauce may have been spilled, and of course there
were sweaty moments in the shirt, but the results were clear.
The power of the shirt that was clear. However, it
(46:25):
also became clear that the shirt was becoming a focus
at the local watery hole watering hole, particularly under the arms.
I started to hear the whispers of jealousy. There goes
the shirt boy. They are all haters. So, in a
moment of weakness, combined with the understandable pride of owning
a cipher greater than the DaVinci code, gulp, I did
the unthinkable. I washed the shirt. I know it was selfishness.
(46:46):
Now I wear that shame like the grease from the wings.
But I will start again, find a new, more worthy shirt,
one that isn't white or tight, and one that is
a large, regular fit shirt. I think he's trying to
get the free shirt. Here is what's happening here. And
with that new shirt. I promise to watch cheer eat
saying smell and smell wildly towards a third World Championship. Sincerely,
(47:10):
shirt Boy. So someone is Jones and for a shirt.
Clearly we found the real reason the Ravens lost this game.
So we'll see if we can help out by getting
a lounge T shirt sent his way.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I think it's only the right thing to do. Spoke
shirt Boy up with the shirt.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
We gotta hook him up. We gotta hook him up.
So Mike is going to be back this week. We're
going to continue to break down everything leading to this
game against the Broncos. Thank you so much for listening,
Thanks to Cliff for filling in, and we will be
back with you again soon
Welcome into the Lounge podcast presented by DraftKings. I'm Garrett
Downing and I'm joined by Clifton Brown today who's sepping
in for Ryan Make And we've got some breaking news
here today and exciting afternoon in Baltimore, as the Ravens
have agreed to a trade with the Carolina Panthers in
principle to get wide receiver Deontay Johnson, adding a proven
(00:26):
pass catcher to this team. According to reports, it's a
pick swap. The Ravens swap fifth and sixth round picks
with the Carolina Panthers, give up for fifth, get the
six in return as well as Deontay Johnson. So an
exciting move for this offense. And just to kind of
set the stage here as we get into this conversation,
news happens fast, all right, It can happen at any point.
(00:47):
So we had actually recorded a podcast already looking at
the film from the game on Sunday and dissecting that
and everything that happened in that game. After we recorded that,
the Deontay Johnson news broke, So we are recording this
portion of the podcast discussing the trade, and then on
the back half of this the second half of this
it's going to be the conversation, the typical film review
(01:08):
with Cliff and I breaking down everything that happened from
the game on a Sunday. So, Cliff, back to Deontay
Johnson in this move, I mean, it's exciting. You get
a proven guy here, former eleven hundred yard receiver adding
him to this offense. What was your take when you
heard the news?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, liked it, adding another weapon to the wide receiver corps.
Guys you mentioned, you know, had eleven hundred yard season
in twenty twenty one. He's only twenty eight years old,
so certainly, you know, not on the downside of his career.
He's also been very durable sixteen games, fifteen games, sixteen games,
(01:42):
seventeen games. Looking at his first four seasons. Free agent
after the season, should be motivated getting out of Carolina
joining the Ravens. I know that would make me happy
if I were him. So yeah, I think there's a
lot to like about this move. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Johnson this year thirty catches for three hundred and fifty
seven yards three touchdowns for the Panthers. Obviously that offense
is not like, it's not the Ravens offense. It's not
one that's putting up monster numbers this year, but you know,
he's been productive in that offense. I think that he
gives the Ravens a couple of things. He gives them
a proven guy who can make big catches and huge situations,
(02:22):
which you don't really ever have a shortage of need
in that regard. You also get somebody who can take
the top off the defense. He's got explosive potential, and
so it's another dynamic weapon in an offense that's already
full of them. But you add a vertical threat, and
you add a really reliable player from a health and
(02:42):
from a just pass catching standpoint to this offense, and
there's you can never really have too many of those guys.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
No, you can't. And that's a good point about you know,
his explosiveness, you know, playing with the quarterback like Lamar
Jackson too. I mean, you know you mentioned Carolina was
struggling offense. He was one of their main weapons. Now
he joins his offense where there are so many weapons
and the opponents have the game plan for so many
other people. He should see a lot of one on
(03:11):
one coverage. Uh, he will be in a position where
you know all the intentions not on him, and to me,
playing with the quarterback like Lamar, that only helps him.
I mean we know him from going against the Steelers
twice a year. You know he's a guy capable of
making big plays. You know he's tough. Also in this offense,
Derek Vy's a guy who you know will throw a
(03:32):
block down field to try and spring Derek just like
the rest of these guys are. So I think he's
a good fit. And you know, going down the stretch,
the Ravens you know, are Super Bowl contender, and just
because they had an off game Sunday against Cleveland, you
can't discount where this team could go and just bring
in another weapon, you know, someone again if there's an injury,
(03:54):
hevn't forbid in that position. Now they also have a
little more depth to withstand that.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, I think that depth is is probably something you
hope you don't. You hope you don't have to go
down the depth chart, right. You hope that everyone stays
healthy and it's not ever an issue or a concern.
But it's important to have that depth. And I still
think from a as I look at this offense and
like the question becomes how is he going to fit
(04:20):
along with Rasha Bateman and Zay Flowers. I think Zay
and Bateman remain the one and two options for this team.
I think that they've gotten to a pretty good groove.
I know Bateman didn't have the best game on Sunday,
you know, had the one that he lost in the sun.
I'm not going to hold that against him too much.
He was coming off a career game the week before.
So I think Bateman's been a productive player, and I
think that him and Zay have a really good feel
(04:41):
for this offense. And Lamar and just they're playing well
right now. So I think that those two guys will
remain as one and two. But it's good to have
depth behind them, and there's still certainly plenty of situations.
We have three wide receivers on the field, and so
putting Deontay Johnson is the third receiver on the field,
I think just makes this offense even more explosive. Plus
(05:03):
you it allows you to keep Say and Bateman fresh.
So there could be situations where it's Bateman and Deontay
Johnson on the field, it's Zay and Deontay Johnson on
the field as well as the two tight ends and
Recard and Henry, Like, I just think it gives you
more options as an offense. And I think it also
speaks to the Ravens just looking for opportunities to improve.
(05:26):
And that's not like a small thing to me. They
know that they are in their window of opportunity right
now with Lamar Jackson, who's in the prime of his career,
who's looking to win that Super Bowl, who's doing everything
he can, and and so or so many other guys
on the team. But the Ravens are a hungry bunch
and they're looking at this team saying the pieces are
(05:48):
there for this group to win it all, like that
potential exists for this team. Let's make it as good
as possible by adding a proven pass catcher, a dynamic
play to the offense and see if that can that
could be something that helps get the team over the top.
I just think that Eric Tacosta is always looking for
ways to improve, and this is a side to me
(06:10):
that they know that, like they're all in. They have
been for a while now, but they're all in this
year and this is just another indication of that.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yeah, I mean, you know, look at the last time Ravens,
you know, won a Super Bowl, you know, an Kwon, Bolden,
Torri Smith, late Gray Jakobe Jones. I mean that that
was a three deep wide receiver corps. This one, you know,
you can say it's more than three deep, but certainly
we've already talked about the depth. I think Johnson is
going to get a boost coming to a team they
(06:40):
can contend. I mean, I think about ro qwand Smith
a couple of years ago, leaving Chicago and coming to
Baltimore already a great player, but then coming to a
team like Baltimore that really was in the thicket of things.
It was, Yeah, he loved it. I think Johnson's gonna
have the same reaction. Yeah. I just feel like you've
already talked about when you have a shot to win
(07:02):
it all, which the Ravens do, then you definitely, I think,
are in the mindset of if there's a guy available
that we can get to maybe put us over the top,
we can I'm not going to put that kind of
pressure on Deontay is like he's a missing link. But
even even after this year, you know he's a free agent.
(07:22):
Guys you know, always talking about how much they love
playing in Baltimore. Maybe this isn't just you know, a
end of the season thing. Maybe he could be signed here.
So it could be something that you know, he's coming now,
this could be all of it, or you know, he
could end up staying. You know, we've even seen a
guy like Unique and got Way leave and then come back,
you know, years later. So most people who come here
(07:45):
love playing here. I think he'll be the same way.
And I think he will help this offense.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah, you mentioned y'a Nique and Arizacosta has a track
record of this over the last several years. He's added
Marcus Peters at the deadline, Rookwan Smith, Yannikin Gakway, came
close reportedly to adding Derek Henry last year before that
trade fell through, and now Deontay Johnson. So there, he's
(08:10):
always looking for ways to improve this team and this
is just another indication of that. I think another part
of it too is a financial piece. Yes, Deontay Johnson's
he's a free agent out to the season. So the
potential is there that is that this is a rental.
Who knows, you know, you never know, he could end
up signing and getting extended. That's what happened with Marcus Peters,
(08:30):
Andro kwand Smith. So now Joannique left in free agency
that offseason, so it could go either way, you don't know.
But from a financial standpoint, it's not a it's not
a huge hit to the Ravens. And this year Deontay
Johnson had just a three point eight million dollar cap
hit and according to Jeff's Reebek, the Ravens are only
(08:50):
going to end up owing him about six hundred and
twenty five thousand the rest of the way, So it's
not like this is a big it's not a big
cost to the Ravens from a financial standpoint. It's also
not a big cost from a draft picks standpoint. You're
just swapping fifth and six round picks, so you're getting
a really good player who has the potential to help
(09:12):
elevate your offense, and it's coming at a low cost,
so high potential, low risk, high reward type move. It
just seems to make a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
Right And you know, Eric the COASA has talked about it.
You know, now that you know Lamar and Stein, we're
in the era where you know, we're making financial moves.
The Ravens are, you know, with Lamar's contract on the
books and others, so they have to be, you know,
a little more creative. There'll be some moves that they
might want to make, but you know, financially, it's not
(09:43):
brutin So, yeah, this is the type of move that fits,
you know, the type of where they are now. A
contender that you know has has some players that you
know are really talented and are well compensated, but you're
still always trying to build the team as strong as
you can around those pieces. And yeah, this is this
is a nice piece to me for the last second
(10:06):
half of the season and going in the playoffs, another
weapon for Lamar, more depth for the wide receiver room. Yeah,
I mean, the Ravens are gonna be playing some big
games obviously from here on out. He's a guy that
could really help them. You never know. I mean, he
don't have to be a guy who catches fifty balls
the rest of the way, but he could make some
big plays at timely moments down the stretch to help
(10:28):
you win. And he also has an experience as a returner,
so we'll see if he's using that role too, but
he has done that before in the past.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So just to close, the book on this conversation, Cliff,
you know, theink's not even dry and the paperwork for
this thing yet. And the question then becomes what's next?
So is this in your mind? Is this the move
that the Ravens make before the deadline? Could there be
more to come? What is your What do you make
(10:58):
of that conversation? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I think with EEDC there could always be another move
to come. We still got, you know, till November fifth,
to the trade deadline. I don't think he's gonna turn
his phone off. So yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna
say this is the move. And you know, you know
how these things work. There may be a deal that
they haven't even talked about yet, an offer they haven't
(11:21):
heard yet. As the deadline gets closer, teams are gonna
be more, you know, maybe throw something your way that okay,
well we weren't gonna do that last week, but okay,
now we're ready to do this. So no, I would
never say this is the move. But the Ravens are
in a good spot because if they don't make another move,
they still have a team good enough to win a
(11:42):
Super Bowl. If they do make another move and get
a proven player like Johnson another proven player. Then they
could put themselves in even better position to win a
Super Bowl. So yeah, the roster is deep. There's another
piece to it. Don't know what it's going to be
the last mover or now, but you know, with EDC
you never say never.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah on that. The point that I'll make is the
Ravens and Eric do an excellent job of keeping things
super quiet until the move happens. That you go back
and look at these moves, it has been radio silence
up until the news drops that a move has been made.
That was the case, like with Roquan that was the
(12:25):
case with Enny kin Gakway. I remember that was case. Nobody.
It's not like there have been rumors for two weeks.
You compare it to like the DeVante Adams, you know,
conversation like that lingered for two weeks, and it seemed
like there was a lot of talk about the Jets
and him, like Deontay Johnson. There was no talk about
the Ravens and him until the tweets went out this
afternoon from any rapport and Adam Schefter and the insiders
(12:47):
basically saying this move is done and so that Ravens
conduct business quietly as everybody else talks about this team.
And that's the way that that Eric DaCosta and this
front office operates. So I don't always think that rumors
out there are an indication of whether a move is
gonna happen or not. So exciting day, really exciting move
(13:08):
for this team. And as I said off the top
of the podcast, here we are now gonna gut it
get into the film review portion of the podcast, which
we recorded before the Deontay Johnson News. So here's Cliff
and I breaking down the film from Sunday's game and
discussing where the team goes from here. This one was
not the most fun to look back at. Sometimes you're
excited to look back at the tape and the film
(13:30):
and relive a game and look at all the big moments.
This was not one of those games. But we did
the hard job there, Cliff, of looking back at this
one to break it all down and provide our thoughts.
And this is what the Ravens coaches and players are doing,
certainly this week, is trying to learn from this one,
what went wrong in this game and where they can
improve moving forward the rest of the way. So I
(13:51):
think the conversation with this game really starts on the defense.
The defense has some issues certainly in this one. So
just to start the converse, when you look back at
this game, what stood out to you about the Ravens
defense and how it played.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, in my opinion, too many of the Browns completions
were too easy. There were guys receivers for the Browns
left wide open on several occasions. Jameis Winston had too
much time to throw on many occasions, and the Ravens
could just not consistently stop the Browns through the air.
(14:28):
Jameis Winson over three hundred yards passing, making his first
start since twenty twenty two. Yeah, this is a game.
If the Ravens had gotten a strong defensive performance, they
would have vaulted away with the victory. But they just
could not get a handle on containing the Browns passing game.
And that has been a consistent scene theme for the
(14:50):
Ravens defense all year. They're ranked last in the NFL
in pass defense. So until that is fixed, they are
not going to be able to play the type of
football defensively that they want to, and there's going to
be a lot of pressure on the offense to carry
them and try and lead them to victories.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, the question really on the defense is like, what's
going wrong? And this has been a common theme. It's
not been something that just crept up in this game.
We've we've seen this at times over the course of
the season, and it's not what anybody of us, anyone expected,
I think when we were doing our prediction podcast and
all that at the start of the season, we were
saying this defense is going to be one of the
(15:29):
best in the league, and even more specifically and talking
about the secondary, nobody was looking at the seam feeling like, man,
the secondary is going to be a weakness of the team.
A lot of capital that's invested in that group, both
both from a draft picks standpoint and from a financial standpoint,
and so it's it's surprising. I'm as surprised as anybody
that the defense has struggled the way the way that
they have this season, and putting your finger on exactly
(15:51):
what it is is kind of challenging. One thought this
week that's been floated out there in the in the
film world is that the Ravens have been trying to
disguise too much, and that's been that's led to problems.
And so if you're trying to disguise, you're showing zone,
but then it's actually man. You're showing man, it's actually zone.
(16:12):
You're showing blitz, but then you're not actually blitzing. You know,
that can make things difficult on a quarterback who's assessing
everything in the line of scrimmage, but it can also
create problems for the defense who's then got to get
back into the defense that they're actually playing after going
through all the disguises. So when you look at it,
and you've heard from John Harbaugh when he was asked
about that this week, what's your take on that the
(16:35):
conversation as it relates to the way that the Ravens
are disguising things and trying to disguise things at the
line of scrimmage.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Well, if you're going to disguise a lot or a little,
you have to do it being organized. So you know,
you could talk about whether they're disguising too much, but
they aren't disguising well enough no matter how often they're
doing it, and they're not confusing the opposing quarterback consistently enough.
I mean, Jamis Winston did not look confused. Sunday he
(17:05):
looked like he wanted knew where he wanted to go.
Many times the person he wanted to throw to was
wide open. There were a couple of occasions where he
made inaccurate passes and the Ravens dropped those opportunities. So yes,
I mean, if they are being confused or can't get
aligned properly because they're disguising too much, then maybe they'll
(17:30):
have to cut back on the disguise and just play
more basic. But the key to me is you just
can't give away possessions to the approach to the offense
because you're not lined up properly because certain guys don't
know who they're supposed to pick up and guys are
left wide open. It's just too easy right now for
(17:53):
opponents to complete passes against the raven and it's hurting
them in big situations at the goal line and the
red zone for the game, when he touched down the
brown that in big situations, the Ravens are giving up
too many big plays.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, and there does seem to be at times confusion.
On the first touchdown that the Browns scored, Roquanda and
a Daffiel way, we're kind of talking to each other
and looked like there was confusion in terms of where
the Ravens should be lined up, and that is something
that we have seen at times and John Harbaugh and
when when talked to talking about that this week, he
(18:30):
made the point that, you know, that is something that
can happen. It's pretty common when he watches tape around
the NFL where teams are i guess confused or not
fully lined up at the snap. And a lot of
that has to do with the way that the offenses
operate two minute four minute offenses, no no huddle up,
tempo substitution and creating problems for the defense. And so
(18:54):
there's there's truth in that. But the other part of it,
of course, is that it's you can't have it because
it costs you. And so even if it's happening with
other teams, it's still costing the Ravens that did certainly
on that first Cedric Tillman touchdown. So those are things
from an operations standpoint that definitely need to get cleaned up.
And that's the that's a focus. The other big problem
(19:15):
and challenge in this game was that the Ravens just
dropped too many picks and like that's not from an
organization standpoint. That's just if you got the ball in
your hands, you gotta squeeze, you got to you gotta
catch it. And I'm sure there's nobody who's more frustrated
on that front than Kyle Hamilton, who had a game
winner in his in his grasp and just couldn't bring
(19:36):
it in. And that's a play that he's gonna make
nine out of ten times, and it's just disappointing that
he wasn't able to make it. And so we're gonna
read a couple of emails over the course of the show.
As always, you can email us at the lounge at
Ravens donfl dot net if we read your email on
the air. We are still giving out T shirts, So
this is still maybe a disappointing week. But the good
(19:56):
news here is there's gonna be some people that get
rewarded with the line T shirt. One of people who's
going to get that T shirt is Anthony Alvino, and
he writes, I'm a huge Ravens fan from New York.
I was cringing watching the game play this week. So
my question is what should the Ravens be focused on
leading into the Broncos game this week. Should they have
more catching drills as a defense in practice, giving that
(20:19):
they dropped easy interceptions. If you eliminated Marlon Humphrey from
the equation, you'd only have one interception for the whole season,
making the team tied for thirty second in the game.
This game alone could have brought the team to eight
nine for the season in terms of interceptions. I mean,
the Ravens dropped three ones that were pretty clear cut
too by Eddy Jackson, one by Kyle Hamilton. I'm concerned
(20:39):
on if the defense will continue to come up with
a big play when they need to most So, what
are your thoughts on the defense dropping those picks, Cliff,
and whether that's something that they can address in practice.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Well, obviously they're going to try to address it, but
it's not like haven't been doing drills on the jugs
machine and turnover drills and game situations are hard to
simulate completely in practice, So I mean it's extremely frustrating.
I think if there was a quick fix, it would
(21:11):
have already been fixed. You just have to hope that
one the Ravens keep getting in position to make interceptions,
because that's the first thing you have to do, which
they are, and secondly that when those opportunities arise, that
they do a better job catching the ball. But I
don't think there's a magic formula for it. They obviously
(21:32):
are well aware of it. It is going to be
a key though, to the rest of their season. Defensively.
I mean, those type players can win you and lose
your games. Marlon Humphrey, that play he can't put in Cincinnati,
I don't think the Ravens win that game without that play.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
And maybe in Tampa too. Also, like that first interception
he got in Tampa, it's probably the same story. I
don't know if the Ravens win that game without that
first and then of course the second interception, but.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
It's a dogfight, absolutely, yeah best and then yeah, yeah,
obviously the one Kyle had, the game is basically over. Certainly,
if they get another first down, it's definitely over. So
that can cost you a win or a loss. If
they can't fix this problem. They are well aware of it,
they are working on it. You just have to hope
that they find a way to fix it.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, definitely. When John Harber was talking about it on Monday,
he made the point that he feels like the interceptions
that have been dropped, it's kind of low hanging fruit
for this defense and thinks those players are going to
get made in the future. I don't think it's like
the classic thing whenever you drop a big pass or
a big interception is get on the judge machine time
(22:39):
time put on the jukes work this week. And I
get that it's a natural response, But I don't think
that the inability to bring down these interceptions is just
related to the fact that the Ravens haven't practiced that
this week, or these guys don't have work on the
jugs machine that says. I don't think that's the case.
I think there's a lot of individual for each one.
(23:01):
And like the Kyle Hamilton one, like that's as easy
of a pick is he's maybe ever had a pick
opportunity in his career that was right to him, and
and so like he's got plenty good hands to catch
that ball, he just didn't catch it in that situation
for whatever reason. I think that I do agree with
John Harball that sometimes turn overs can be fluky, and
(23:21):
like you drop a pick like that, that's typically not
one that happens, and the Ravens are going to make
that play more time than not, and that can change
the outcome and the and the course of this defense
for the rest of the way if they're able to
come up with some of those picks. I also think though,
that when you have something like this going on, it
can get in the back of your mind and it's
there and until you eliminate it, until you prove that
(23:43):
it's not an issue, it's going to be an issue.
It's kind of like the conversation we were having with
Justin Tucker a few weeks ago, is if you know
that this thing is going on, if you've if you've
had these difficulties, if you had some moments there, you've
come up with plays that you've missed, how are you
going to be able to overcome them? And the Ravens
need to prove in those situations that they can overcome
(24:04):
those moments when they have the opportunity. So I think
that that I think it can happen. But the Ravens
they need the pick, they need the play. They need
to come up with a big moment in order to
squash the notion that this is something that's going to
bother them the rest of the way. So as we're
talking about takeaways naturally. An important part of this conversation
is the safety position. The Ravens made a big change
(24:26):
at safety this week. Marcus Williams has been the start
here for a few years, was not the start of
this week. Eddie Jackson and our Darius Washington replaced him
in the lineup. They played one hundred percent of the
snaps and Marcus Williams did not see any action. John
Harball has been asked about this a few times after
the game and again on Monday, and described it as
(24:46):
a personnel decision, but didn't want to get into the
details of exactly what went into the change of that position.
He expressed confidence that Marcus would be able to play
safety again at a high level this year and said,
I don't really think I have anything else to say
about it. There's a lot of things that go that
are going on all the time. A lot of it
is kind of our business that belongs in house, is
between us, and it's not something that we need to
(25:08):
tell everybody about. So that's where he left it on
the conversation related to Marcus no longer being in the
starting lineup, at least in the game against the Browns.
So a question here is from Ronnie Smith, who says
that one was hard to swallow. This is my first
time writing this season, but I felt compelled. I think
everybody that's a Ravens fan is finding it hard to
fathom how our secondary can be seemingly so disorganized, especially
(25:32):
at deep safety. Average NFL quarterbacks seem to be picking
it apart. So we've got to shake it up. Is
bo Braid a potential option at safety Maryland product, undrafted
rookie or I'm intrigued by the potential of adding a
veteran at the trade deadline? So what's your thought on
what happens at safety and if bo Braid could be
(25:52):
in the equation there? Clip.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, my thought is that anything's on the table at
this point. I don't think anyone saw that coming that
Marcus Williams wouldn't play at all, particularly on a day
where they were already shorthanded in the secondary with Marlon
Humphrey and Nate Wiggins not able to play. So yeah,
(26:14):
I mean, the trade deadline is looming. I'm sure that
you know, the Ravens will consider at least seeing if
there's somebody out there who can help them and then
with the personnel that's on the roster, could we see
someone who hasn't played much start playing, like a Boat
(26:35):
Brady or someone else. Certainly I think it's possible. Could
they go back to Marcus Williams. Maybe? I mean, I
really don't know. It's going to be really interesting to
see where you go from here, because I don't think
anyone saw this coming, and it's not like the changes
they made fixed things, so the issue was still there.
(26:55):
They made changes and lost the game still had in
the secondary, So it will be interesting to see where
they go here. What I would only be guessing, and
I'm really cure, is to see what happens.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I mean, I think often the easy answer is it's
like the backup quarterback syndrome. The easy answer is just
change to people who are in that position. Just swap
it out bench this guy, insert that guy. And sometimes
you need to do that, and it is the right
decision to do that given the player and the position.
But other times there are other fixes beyond just replace
(27:33):
that person and we'll see what the Ravens end up doing.
Maybe it's Marcus who ends up getting inserted back into
the lineup. Maybe it is a combination of Marcus Ardarius
and Eddie Jackson and Bo Braid potentially too. I mean,
he's an undrafted rookie, so I think that, like the
suggestion that he could just step into that role and
play one hundred percent of the snaps, like, that's a
(27:54):
tall order for a young player, and I don't know
if the Ravens will go that route. I'd be a
little bit surprised if they just said, Okay, Bo, you're
going to be the starting safety playing one hundred percent
of the snaps right now. He was a talented guy
who showed potential in the preseason, but that's that's a
tough assignment there for a young player. So I think
that the Ravens will I'm with you. I think they'll
continue to look at everything as it relates to that
(28:16):
position and finding ways that they can get better organized
as a secondary as a whole, with safety being a
huge piece of that. The other go.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Ahead, Yeah, and I'll just say it's too that you know,
obviously there's a lot of focus on the secondary, but
this is a defensive unit issue. I mean pass defense,
it's not just the secondary, it's the entire defense. They're
not getting pressure on quarterbacks as much as they would
like to. They're not stopping the running game as much
as they would like to, which makes it easier for
(28:46):
them to be attacked, you know, particularly on third down
when it's third and short, you know, instead of third
and eight or longer, then it's easier to complete a
pass for a first down. Their pass coverage to the
linebacker level hasn't been good enough, so all those things
are making it harder on the secondary, and then they're
not playing as well as they would like to. So
(29:08):
it's a collective thing. And yes, just because you make
a change at safety or anywhere else doesn't necessarily fix
the problem. But again I did not see, you know,
Marcus Williams, that change coming where you wouldn't play at all.
And now obviously that was not the solution. So it
is up in the air to me where the Ravens
(29:30):
go from here.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
One last thought on defense, after looking at some of
the film breakdowns, the Ravens closed out the game on
defense with six straight cover zero blitzes, which is where
you blitz everybody who doesn't have a specific player that
they're covering from a man's standpoint, and so that leaves
everybody else in a one on one matchup man coverage
(29:54):
with the receivers, tight ends, running backs coming out of
the backfield. So it's a tougher assignment for those guys
and coverage because they don't have help over the top.
It's an aggressive play call to go with that. So
the Ravens finished out things on defense. Six straight Covers
your Blizzes. Dan Rolofski from ESPN did a pretty good
breakdown on this and looking at this and he felt
(30:16):
like it was maybe too aggressive and predictable. What I like,
I'm curious your take on this, because my honest feeling
is I don't really mind it when you consider that
covers your blitzes is boom er busts and the Ravens
were not getting pass rush, they were not getting to
Jameis Winston throughout the game, and so when you bring
(30:38):
the house, there's more likelihood that you're going to be
able to get to the quarterback. And the worst case
scenario basically happened, which is you give up the big
play for a touchdown. But to be honest, like that
big play for a touchdown is better than the true
worst case scenario, which is the Browns only needed a
field goal on that drive. The worst case scenario is
that you never get the ball back and the Browns
(31:01):
just end up settling for a thirty five yard field
goal so to win the game as it expires, and
that's how you lose the game. So I like basically
trying to bring the pressure to the quarterback and if
it doesn't work, first of all, hopefully it works. If
it doesn't work, which is what happened in this situation,
then you at least do get the ball back with
(31:21):
the potential to go down the field and have a
shot to win it at the end, which the Ravens did.
They had a couple shots at the end zone there
at the end. So what's your take on the cover
zero blizzes to end this say? For the Ravens defense, Yeah,
I agree with you, Garrett.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I mean, if they get home on one or two
of those blitzes and push them into a position where
either they have a longer field goal or out of
field goal range, then no one's talking about this. If
Kyle Hamilton catches it exactly exactly, no one's talking about this.
So they actually got the result in a way that
(32:00):
they were looking for. Jameis Winsdon threw a ball up
for grabs that Kyle Hamilton should have caught, he didn't,
and then on the next play they got burned. So,
like you said, it was a do or die situation.
They didn't do so that's what happened.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Yeah, all rightlet's take a quick break. When we come back,
we'll look at the offensive side of the football. You're
listening to the Lounge podcast. We're coming to you from
the Seakeek studio. We also want to mention our partners
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the Baltimore Ravens Draft Kings Sportsbook. The Crown is yours.
So in looking at the Ravens offense, I don't think
(32:41):
it was a perfect day at all for the offense.
I think most of the focuses understandably on the defense,
but I thought that the offense, you know, it didn't
have its best day of work, especially what we given
what we had seen over the course of the five
game winning streak, this was one where I felt like
the Ravens kind of lost the battle in the trenches
and that the brown have an aggressive style. They were
(33:02):
able to get in the backfield disrupt things in the
running game and in the passing game. I thought that
was a big factor in the way that this offense operated.
Did you see it that way as well?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I did? You know? Lamar Jackson was hurried in a
lot of situations, would have been sacked more often more
than he was if not for his loosiveness. I think
that part of reason that Derrick Henry didn't have one
of his big games because the Browns defensive line was
winning up front, making it tough for Henry to find
(33:37):
running lanes to get to when he got the football. Yeah,
so I thought the Browns won up front and that, yes,
made life difficult for the Ravens offense. The Ravens, I thought,
played better offensively as a game. Progressed Lamar and you know,
other playmakers kept them in the game. But yeah, that
(33:58):
was the most difficult game they've had offensively in a while.
And part of the reason was because the Browns on
a lot of occasions were in the backfield quickly, whether
Ravens chose to run it or throw it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
According to Pro Football Focus, some of the numbers here
on pressures allowed I'll run through it along the offensive line.
Dang folele allowed six, Ronnie Stanley five, Roger Rosegarten four,
Patrick McCarey two, Tyler Linderbaum won. So those guys were
allowing pressure. Browns were forcing Lamar Jackson to move out
(34:35):
around the pocket. I think on some of those plays,
ninety percent of the quarterbacks in the league end up
getting sacked. But he was able to get outside the
pocket and either throw it away or take a chance
down the field, even at the very end of the game,
just to keep the final play alive, to heave it
down the field for a prayer. Most guys don't make
(34:55):
that play, and I think he deserves a lot of
credit for that. The other thing I think where this
showed up from a pressure standpoint, there was the play
talked about a good amount after the game on Sunday,
the missed touchdown opportunity to save Flowers in the first half,
Ravens had to settle for a field goal. If you
go back and you look at the film with that
(35:16):
play save Flowers, I mean, he's so shifty in his
route running. He made about seven different moves on Denzel
Ward to ultimately get open and end up wide open
in the end zone, and Lamars overshot him when you
go back and look at the film with that. First
of all, it's difficult to time up that throw because
Zay was just bouncing all over the place to get
open and then all of a sudden he breaks free.
(35:36):
But it's hard to time up exactly what that route's
going to look like because that seemed to be more
of just a feel thing in him getting open on
a scramble trill. And then the second part of it
is when Lamar did release it, he had a guy
right in his face. He had a guy Barren Downhill
right in his face, which made it very difficult to
deliver a pass that was on the money. So when
you see when you see the receiver running wide open
(35:58):
in the end zone for a touchdown and the balls
four yards past him, you're just like, oh, how does
that happen? You had him wide open? What Like, that's
an easy throw. I think it was a little bit
more difficult when you look at it on film.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, I mean, Lamar had a lot of difficult throws
Sunday because of the pressure. There were some he didn't
get the throw, and as you mentioned, it throws off
the timing of the play. You don't expect the guy
to be right in your face, you know, a couple
of seconds after you snapped the ball, and that happened
a couple of times to Lamar. So his ability to
(36:30):
extend blades kept some plays alive. But the Ravens need
to give him more comfort in the pocket on a
regular basis than they did Sunday if they don't, you know,
moving forward, you know, the Steelers come to mind, you know,
team that can really pressure the quarterback. They in those
(36:50):
playing those type teams down the road. They're going to
have to give Lamar more comfort in the pocket than
they did Sunday if they're going to move the ball
effectively consistently throughout the game.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
So another issue in this game. The Ravens were penalized again.
You know, they've been penalized a good amount this year.
This is a question from Jess in Seattle. Disheartened but hopeful.
I promise this isn't hate mail. Is how this email
starts off. So I appreciate that, and she says, typically
the Ravens are commended for their discipline and a limited
number of penalties. But I know we all have opinions
(37:24):
about some of those penalties, like Ronnie getting penalized at
the Chiefs game for a legal formation or fall a
Lea's holding call against the Bucks. But it seems like
there have been way more penalties this year. Are the
Ravens not playing with as much discipline as the past?
Are other teams experiencing in upticking penalties as well? I'd
like to think this is fixable. It'd be great to
hear your thoughts on why the Ravens are one of
the most penalized teams in the NFL this year. What's
(37:46):
your take on that, Cliff, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
I think there's a, you know, multiple multiple factors with that.
I think that, you know, having three new starters on
the offensive line, the defensive confusion we've talked about, all
those things lead to an increase in penalties. I don't
think the Ravens are playing quote undisciplined football, but they
(38:11):
are making too many mistakes and it's something they need
to cut down on because those penalties are heart There's
also been penalties. I shouldn't leave out special teams too.
There's been penalties on special teams that have hurt them. So, yes,
they are committing too many penalties. They do need to
cut down. I do think it's fixable and big picture
even beyond. We are sitting here, certainly after this game
(38:36):
talking about all the things the Ravens didn't do. They're
five and three, but I think almost I still think
most people would consider them to be one of the
top teams in football. And they began the season zero
to two, so clearly they have a ceiling that's higher
(38:57):
than where they are right now. The question is whether
they're going to be able to get to it. They're
going to have to play better to do that, obviously,
but I do think there is reason to be I
think in the beginning that letter you know, or that
you know email cause is the optimistic. There's reason for
optimism because with all the things that the Ravens aren't
(39:19):
doing as well as we think they can. They are
five and three after overcoming an h and two start,
so seasons just about halfway over, even though there is
really no half any more. Sefteen games. They've got what
nine games left, right They're ready, you know, they're in position,
you know, still to have a really good season if
(39:42):
they can correct these issues. The question is will.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
They Cliff's still optimistic. I like the optimism from Cliff
here a little a little good perspective here as we're
recording a couple of quick notes I want to hit
before we before we wrap up. One is an interesting
play the Ravens have run, or at least tempted to
run a few different times this year. Is Charlie Kohler
at quarterback on these quarterback sneaks. They tried it again
(40:05):
on Sunday. He was penalized for a false start where
he basically try to oversell the cadence and dipped his
head trying to sell that. And so the question is like,
why are you putting your tight end at quarterback? What's
going on here? And John Hartwall did provide some perspective
on that, and basically the Ravens have apprehension about using
(40:27):
Lamar as some of those quarterback seats. They want to
be protective of him. He runs the ball a lot
more than a lot of other quarterbacks, takes a lot
of hits. So do you really need him in those situations,
you know, getting crunched from guys behind him and guys
in front of him. Put in Charlie Kohler, who's a
big two hundred and fifty pound tight end there who
can move the pile. That's the thinking on those plays. Now,
(40:51):
what's happened now on two different occasions this year is
Charlie was flagged for the false start of that play.
Earlier in the season against the Raiders, Derrick Henry was
flagged for a false start on that play. And so
there seems to be confusion or a lack of certainly
a lack of execution, but the organization on those plays
(41:12):
does not seem to be up to the level that
is needed. And I'm just curious what's your take on that,
the route that the Ravens are going and what they
need to do in order to clean up the miscuse
that they've had.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Well, honestly, I don't have a problem with Lamar not
running the quarterback sneak. I do have a problem with
you know, doing making it too. I don't know that
exotic or cute when you're that close to the goal
line and when a penalty can really hurt you. I mean,
you have Derek Henry in the backfield, you have Pat
through the card, the best blocking fall back in the league.
(41:48):
My feeling is, if you don't want to run Lamar
on a sneak, which is fine either, just hand the
ball to n read block it up. And yeah, if
if the other team keeps you from out of the
out of the end zone in that situation, hats off
to him, they win.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Right, Because it's kind of it's kind of twofold as
there were two players that really where this came up.
One was the Henry play down inside the red zone.
The other was the cooler QB sneak in the middle
of the field but on short yard of situations. So
it's like two short yard situations, one closer to the
goal line, one in the middle of the field. But yeah,
I mean it's a fair it's a fair point. It's
like you have Henry. Just give it to him, just
(42:26):
so don't overthink it. Just give it to him. I
get that right exactly.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
And sure, I mean there there are other things you
Lamar also has the option if he sees something he likes.
John Harbaal said, as far as the quarterback sneak, he
has the option option of audibly into that. So it's
not like Lamar can't run the quarterback sneak if he
sees an opening, and certainly also in short yardage when
(42:50):
Lamar is on the field, even if he's not going
to be the guy running the football. He is a threat.
He has to be defended. So I kind of you
don't like taking Lamar off the field, even if he's
not going to be the guy who gets the football.
So I'd rather have him out there, whether it's goline
or short lar yard or somewhere else on the field,
(43:11):
have him out there, and if you don't, you know,
use him as a runner, then let him have a
hand handed off to Derek Andry. And I like my
chances with that.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
My take is a QB sneak with Charlie Kohler should
be basically unstoppable. It should be in theory like this
is a big guy who can just plow ahead. You
got Ricard and Henry pushing him from behind to get
the extra yards toush push style. So in theory it
should be unstoppable. But two times now they've had cadence
(43:44):
issues on that play, and so clearly they need to
get that worked out if you're gonna keep if you're
gonna keep running that play, which I understand, but you
need to figure out the organization of it before you
If you have that issue, if you don't even get
to a point where he's snapped, then it's not productive,
and so they need to figure that out. It's not stoppable.
(44:04):
If you don't even get to snap it, it's no
longer unstoppable exactly, all right. So you mentioned this special teams.
The Ravens have had issues on special teams bring the
ball out of the end zone and getting penalized. And
so you have the offense it felt like it was
starting from the ten yard line every drive in this game.
On the on multiple instances of the game this week,
(44:28):
Chris Colier, the kick returner, brought it out of the
en zone. He just shouldn't have done it. He should
have left it in the end zone. And that's basically
been the Ravens operation all year long. If it's kicked
into the end zone, just take it at the thirty.
But there's been plenty of instances where the Ravens have
brought it out of the end zone, and it sounds like,
based on what John Harbo's saying, the returners are just
kind of losing where they are on the field and
(44:49):
still bringing it out when they shouldn't have the green
light to do that, right.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
I mean, getting the ball to thirty is fine. So
unless you have to be earn it. There really isn't
much reason to do it this year. And John Hope
also mentioned that the blogging angles are difficult with the
new alignment if you do decide to run it out.
So yeah, I mean those are mistakes. I mean, we
(45:14):
could talk about it all we want, but that and
whether they have someone else now returning it, or if
Chris Kelly and whoever is returning it gets the message
and stops doing it. Yeah, it's something that needs to
be fixed. But I think after this game the message
is very clear that, you know, don't do that, don't
(45:36):
bring the ball out of end zone on kickoffs when
we're perfectly fine with getting the ball at the thirty
yard line.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
So clearly the raves side issues, you know, in this
game kind of in all three phases. And that's just
another example of that. So as as we conclude here, Cliff,
I want to I've mentioned before the emails you can
emails at the Lounge or evens ond NFL dot net.
We're giving away Lounge T shirts, and I want to
end here with a little levity. This email says they
say the first step towards forgiveness is owning your mistakes.
(46:03):
It was me. I washed the lucky shirt every week
for the last five weeks. I wore the shirt proudly,
we the Ravens, and I played much better. Celebration ensued.
Marching band songs were saying. Beer may have been spilled,
wing sauce may have been spilled, and of course there
were sweaty moments in the shirt, but the results were clear.
The power of the shirt that was clear. However, it
(46:25):
also became clear that the shirt was becoming a focus
at the local watery hole watering hole, particularly under the arms.
I started to hear the whispers of jealousy. There goes
the shirt boy. They are all haters. So, in a
moment of weakness, combined with the understandable pride of owning
a cipher greater than the DaVinci code, gulp, I did
the unthinkable. I washed the shirt. I know it was selfishness.
(46:46):
Now I wear that shame like the grease from the wings.
But I will start again, find a new, more worthy shirt,
one that isn't white or tight, and one that is
a large, regular fit shirt. I think he's trying to
get the free shirt. Here is what's happening here. And
with that new shirt. I promise to watch cheer eat
saying smell and smell wildly towards a third World Championship. Sincerely,
(47:10):
shirt Boy. So someone is Jones and for a shirt.
Clearly we found the real reason the Ravens lost this game.
So we'll see if we can help out by getting
a lounge T shirt sent his way.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I think it's only the right thing to do. Spoke
shirt Boy up with the shirt.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
We gotta hook him up. We gotta hook him up.
So Mike is going to be back this week. We're
going to continue to break down everything leading to this
game against the Broncos. Thank you so much for listening,
Thanks to Cliff for filling in, and we will be
back with you again soon
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