September 1, 2025 • 36 mins
Love is not always a feeling – it’s a choice. In this episode of 34o Podcast, Henrik explores what it means to stay when it feels easier to run, to choose presence when fear whispers “escape.” Vulnerability, patience, and honesty become the keys to building deeper intimacy.
The reflection is followed by a conversation with Mor Shavit, mindbody coach, who brings her perspective on attachment theory – from avoidant patterns that push love away, to anxious patterns that cling in fear of losing it, and the possibility of growing into secure love. She explains how these patterns show up in the body and shape the way we connect, and how true change begins when we create safety within ourselves first.
Together, Henrik and Mor uncover what it means to move from avoidance into presence, from fear into love – and how building secure attachment starts with awareness, self-compassion, and the courage to stay.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:10):
Welcome back to 34, the space where we explore intimacy,
presence, and what it truly means to love.
We live in a time where many people are afraid of love.
Not because they don't long for it, but because they fear what
comes with it. Being seen, being vulnerable,
(00:34):
being hurt, having to face feelings, things that might have
been bearing for a long, long time.
Hiding away in closets in their minds not to be seen.
So what do they do? They run, they ghost, they keep
1 foot out of the door. They stay busy, distracted,
(00:59):
independent, because it feels safer to escape than to truly
stand still and stay. Maybe you've been there.
You meet someone who touches something deep in you.
It feels real, maybe even a little scary.
And instead of leaning in, you pull back.
(01:22):
You stop replying as quickly. You bury yourself in work, you
tell yourself you're not ready, or I'm better off alone, or I
have to do a lot of work on myself.
It's not that you don't feel love, it's that love feels too
(01:43):
much. This is what avoidance look like
in practise, and what it may feel like protection.
It often leaves both people wounded, one trapped in longing
and the other trapped in fear. But here's the truth.
Love can grow in flight. Love only grows when we choose
(02:08):
to stay, when we choose presenceover escape.
The avoidance pattern. Avoidance is not coldness.
It's fear. Fear of being trapped.
(02:29):
Fear of losing control. Fear of repeating old wounds.
But here's the paradox. In running away from love, you
often create the very trauma we fear not only in ourselves, but
in the person we leave behind. Every time someone runs, the
(02:52):
other person is left questioningtheir worth, their reality,
their trust and intimacy. They wonder, was it me?
Did I do something wrong? Am I too much?
Am I not enough? The silence of avoidance becomes
louder than any words. And here's what we rarely
(03:15):
acknowledge. The Avoidant 1 suffers too,
because deep down they long for connection just as much, but the
fear of closeness is stronger than the longing they carry the
story. If I let someone in, I'll lose
myself. If I love, I'll be hurt again.
(03:39):
So both sides hurt. 1 Drowns in abandonment, the other heights
in isolation, and the cycle repeats, relationship after
relationship, ghost after ghost,until someone dares to break it
by staying present. Love is a choice.
(04:08):
Love is not always a feeling. Feelings rise and fall like
waves. Desire can fade, fear can surge,
moods can shift. But love, love is deeper than
that. Love is a decision.
(04:31):
It is the decision to stay when it would be easier to leave, to
choose presence when fear whispers escape, run, go for it.
To say I'm scared but I'm still here instead of disappearing
behind silence for busyness. True intimacy doesn't mean it
(04:54):
will never. Hurt.
It means we dare to be there anyway, with honesty, with care,
with the willingness to grow together.
Because intimacy will touch the places where we are most
fragile. It will expose our shadows, our
(05:14):
childhood wounds, our deepest doubts.
But here's the truth, running doesn't protect us, it just
delays the pain and it multiplies it.
Staying with presence is where healing truly begins.
(05:35):
Love as a choice looks like thisin practise.
Saying I need a moment but I'm not leaving you breathing when
you want to shut down and instead looking into your
partner's eyes. Choosing to tell the truth even
when it trembles. Reaching out your hand when
(05:56):
distance feels safer. Love isn't proven in the easy
moments, it's proven when we stand still in the storm.
That's when I love you becomes more than words, it becomes a
lived choice. From fear to presence.
(06:23):
When we approach relationships from fear we close, we guard our
hearts, we build walls around them, we analyse every move, we
create exit strategies before weeven arrive.
Fear whispers. Don't trust, don't stay.
(06:44):
Don't be seen. When we approach relationships
from love, we open, we soften. We allow ourselves to be
touched, not just physically, but emotionally.
We choose to believe in the possibility of connection, even
when it scares us. It sounds simple, and in truth
(07:09):
it is. But it's also the hardest thing
we can do, because choosing lovedoesn't mean fear disappears.
Fear will always be there. Fear of loss, of reaction, of
being too much for not being enough.
(07:31):
The practise is not to silence fear, but to walk with it.
To say I see you fear. You can come along, but you
don't get to drive. Choosing love is about staying
present with the fear, Breathingwhen the impulse is to run,
(07:54):
speaking when silence feels safer, leaning in when your body
wants to retreat. Presence is the bridge.
It turns fear into intimacy. It turns hesitation into
courage. It turns What if I get hurt?
Into What if we grow strong together?
(08:18):
And every time you choose presence over avoidance, love
expands. It grows.
Welcome, Moore. So Moore Shavit is a mind body
coach, mentor and a subconsciousexpert, a guide in emotional
(08:39):
integration and a woman with a unique sensitivity to the silent
forces that shapes us, especially in our relationships
as men and women. She brings warmth, clarity and a
deep understanding of the shame we carry often.
Without even realising it. Especially when it comes to
desire, closeness, and our bodies more welcome.
I'm so grateful to have you hereagain.
(09:01):
Hey Henrik, so good to have you to come here again and thank you
for inviting me on a second time.
No, really glad to hear. You here and you've also
listened now to the episode around fear of relationships and
how it is to act from a place oflove or fear.
Yeah, what a what a deep, deep, important yeah conversation to
(09:26):
have and to bring awareness to where we can find ourselves in
relationships. So I'm looking forward to dive
into this conversation with you today.
Yeah, Thank you. I'm looking forward to the
conversation. So let's dive in and start with
the first question. So the first it's really is
you're in relationships, it's often 2 wounded individuals who
(09:49):
hurt each other. What do you feel shifts when we
see conflict through that lens? What a wonderful convert
question, Henry. It changes everything basically.
So if we are able and aware enough and brave enough to be
(10:14):
able to shift the lens from he hurts me, he is doing it to me,
It's me against him to the lens of we are two wounded kids who
are having a hard time. It changes everything because as
an adult, when you are in the playground, if you're a parent
(10:38):
or even if you're passing through adult that still doesn't
have kids and you see 24 year old having a really, really hard
time trying to communicate, trying to do something and
ending up hurting each other. I don't think any anyone will
say about any of the kids or he's such a bad person.
(11:00):
She's such a bad girl. She wanted to hurt him.
It was intentionally right. We won't see that.
What we will say, Oh, it will open our heart, we will have
compassion instead of blame, right.
And so if we are both and that'sa key, yeah, both able to shift
(11:28):
from one versus another to it's us 2 versus the wounds, then the
whole, the whole paradigm of where we are seeing the relation
from is changing. Yeah, it's a beautiful way to
look at it, right? But you also need to make that
choice as a person that you wantto work on that, right?
(11:50):
A. 100 percent, 100%. We need to have awareness first
of all, as individuals to our own nerve system and understand
what love equal in our world, how it's unsafe for us because
of what we have learned in a younger age.
(12:10):
And so understanding my own defence mechanism because in in
a relationship it can also sometimes look very different.
For example, for me to be safe, equal, I need to be in control
for another person for me to base to be safe, I need to
disappear from here. Yeah.
(12:31):
And then you have one chasing another, one person and the
other one trying to retreat and escape.
When we don't know about our self, which kind of defence
mechanism, survival mechanism weare in and we carry only that,
we are repeating the loop of thepain.
We are creating even deeper wound and deep and trauma in our
(12:54):
dynamic. Yeah.
And this is where I have these attachment styles coming into
play, which people are obviouslytalking quite a lot about right
now. More like.
Anxious or? Avoidant, which is I think the
two we're talking about here. Yes, facing off to the other who
is fleeing. Yes, yes, this.
Yeah, exactly. Because we are learning from
(13:15):
experience. And so if we have arrived into a
relationship with a mechanism, asurvival mechanism that has
given us a certain behaviour andwe are not aware of it, it will
end up showing up in our relationship and it will prove
us right. It will prove us.
And when I say like that, it means that whatever limiting
(13:37):
belief we will carry, and we don't know that it's a limiting
belief that we carry the universe and the situation will
prove us right. Meaning if I'm coming with a
limiting belief of love is not safe or in order to be safe, I
must be in control and I bring this into the relationship, then
(13:59):
the relationship will prove me right.
It means I find someone that I will always have to be in
control in order to feel safe. And that was strengthen,
strengthen my strategy in order to allow me to soften and
actually be. And This is why we see so many
split, so many people split up because.
Then you also where you also then acting from a place of fear
(14:22):
because you need to control, rather than a place of love
where you're truly loving. Exactly.
Exactly. Yeah, yes.
So I mean, on the topic, we, we,we talked about here, some
people flee intimacy or some people chase it, if you will.
Do you think there's something wrong with them or is it always
(14:44):
like a survival response on that?
Yeah, I will say that there is nothing wrong with them for
sure. There is nothing wrong with us
per SE, as human being, as humanbeing.
But we are very. But the human mind loves to find
what's wrong. This is the mechanism.
(15:05):
OK, if we're talking about specifically avoidant, it may
look like something is wrong with this person because we are
here as human being for connection, for intimacy.
And so if someone is fleeing or avoiding the one thing we came
(15:25):
here for, for the outside, it may look like, whoa, that's
something something's wrong there.
Why is this person, and I'm not only talking about romantic
relationship, intimacy is connection per SE with any other
person. Yeah.
And so when you see this loner or whatever, society will label
(15:48):
this person the weirdo, the loner, the avoidant.
All of these labels are are actually creating even worse for
that person that is suffering somuch because this person that is
avoidant intimacy, it's not happening here, it's happening
(16:10):
here. His body feeling so unsafe that
whenever he's having an attempt of connection, which is what he
desire from here, the body will say alert alert alert and will
subconsciously make him act and behave and say or not say do or
(16:33):
not do the things that will selfsabotage and make him escape
from it he's. Overwhelmed in that scenario,
more or less right? Yeah, exactly.
And we need to understand that the people that are radically
avoiding and fleeing intimacy, that means that they have
(16:55):
experience that love, equal abandonment, rejection,
suffocation and even sometimes abuse.
Yeah, and that's the sad thing with it and I think the sad
thing with it as well when you. Have people with these.
Wounds, it's, they will just continue, you know, passing on
the wounds as well because it's when somebody's fleeing, for
(17:18):
example, the person who is left behind is sort of also most in a
traumatic experience, experiencing a new trauma again.
And, and, and you know, also another thing that is as you
were saying came to me and I, I was not thinking of saying it,
but it just now came to me naturally from this
(17:40):
conversation, this raw and beautiful conversation.
I'm also was thinking of people that really have hard time with
intimacy and how lonely it mightfeel and how what a paradox that
the only way to heal they will have to be in intimacy but it's
(18:02):
the hardest trigger for them to be in how we can be.
Just as a message now in general, this human being more
open hearted, less judge, mental, less critical, less
labelling people as weird or something wrong or whatever, and
(18:24):
actually bring more love and compassion, acceptance.
Because we don't know if this person that is in front of us or
is one of the gang or is one of their friends circle that is the
little bit, the weirdo or the avoidant.
And maybe say what it is that I can do today to support him.
That is the opposite of what I've been doing until now.
(18:48):
And what is our our responsibility as a society's
human being to Yeah, to help those who really find it hard.
That's a beautiful way to put itas well, I think, because it's
everybody has their own. Journey and we don't know.
Even when you meet somebody in the street, for example, you
don't know what that that journey for that person.
(19:10):
Looks like. Yeah.
And one thing I can say as as a as a is is a certain that a
smile or or a really good intention and open heart towards
this person or any person we arecoming course can go a long
(19:33):
mile. Yeah, and that truly helps.
Yeah, yeah. So, so so I just want to say it
as a as a really make it 100% clear there is absolutely
nothing wrong with them. That's a very good message, but
how do you? Feel like.
The digital culture, and you mentioned that before as well.
(19:55):
Around like dating apps. Instant gratification, constant
comparison. How do you feel that has
reshaped? The way people build.
Or avoid real relationships. Yeah, I think it's another great
topic that can talk about it forhours, but that I think like
(20:17):
that we are not talking enough about this topic and that this
entire culture has completely rewired the way we even approach
connection. If you can think of kids today
that are 678910, they don't really.
(20:39):
They were born into this reality.
I think I'm 41, so 84 and I think I'm what we call the
generation, the in between generation.
So I can still remember the phone that if it's not answering
in the house, then you cannot reach and what to do.
And today everything is fast is is quick is, is we're becoming
(21:03):
consumering of, of connection. It's not becoming an art.
It's becoming something like another jeans we buy in Zara.
So going to the app Zara is likegoing to the app of of of men
and women. So we're, I mean relationships
becomes consumable, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
(21:26):
And with that, it's also the skill of being able to build
something for the longer term isnot being used, the skill of
being able to answer on the spot, face to face, eye to eye,
(21:46):
energy to energy. Energy is not being practised.
And so it's reshaped the entire way of connection.
So if we abuse it and we don't bring awareness to it, it can
be, it can severely damage us inthe long run.
However, if we bring awareness to it and you we use it in a
(22:11):
conscious way, like anything that we do consciously and with
balance, and we make it use the use of it, helping us in
building that ability to create real relationship, then it can
be a good thing. But it will require a lot of
(22:35):
awareness, a lot of discipline and a lot of bravery to to
pursue it in the old way. And yeah.
I can see that for sure also in kids today in the way they are
consuming things is it is in a different rate than what you and
(22:57):
I were used to. It goes so much quicker and a
lot of I see also a lot of relations when it comes to like,
you know, dating and relationships.
It's like people are always looking for something better as
well, right. So it's.
Yes, yes and that is and this better it's related connected
(23:22):
fully to I'm not enough that we are already caring and so this
is strengthening conditional love which love and intimacy
doesn't live in that field. It lives in presence and in
slowing down and in unconditional love that you are
(23:44):
allowed to be who you are fully.And I assume you must be seeing
this with your clients as well, that these are some of the
challenges they're facing, I guess, on a day-to-day basis.
Definitely, definitely. And also I have to say one more
thing about it that not many people know that when you are in
this virtual space and you get this like swipe or I've never
(24:07):
had a Tinder because I was not in the time of it.
I was already married so but I know all of it and I know all of
dating apps and I have a lot of girlfriends that are still in
the market. Even the way we talk about it.
Yeah, if you can think about it like the market and the single
hood and and really this swipe and the way it's design.
(24:34):
I I really want people to know it.
The way it's design is to give you a short of dopamine that is
lasted for one minute, one day, one hour and then it's gone.
So if young people are listeningto it and even not young people,
people in their mid life and they are in the dating scene and
(24:57):
they want to feel connected and real, then I would recommend you
to take the eyes off the screen and go out to anywhere,
anywhere. Because love can come anywhere.
In the supermarket, in the coffee shops and look around and
create eye contact and practise eye contact, practise reading
(25:19):
energy, feeling yourself around other people, feeling the
magnetic pool and act on it. Ask for a date.
As a woman, I can say out loud here, man, that there is nothing
more appealing these days than aman that will actually approach
(25:39):
a woman in a bar like old schooland ask her out and give her a
compliment. So yeah.
Yeah, it's a good thing. That's a good tip for all the
men out there. As well.
I mean, we, we, we talk now about, you know, sort of
attachment styles and, and that people have wounds and they're
(26:00):
the need to heal. And we've also touched on that
in a previous discussion where we talked about sort of healing
in relationship. So.
You what does it? Mean to really heal in a
relationship rather than outsideof it if we go a bit deeper on
that topic. I love the questions, Henrik,
really thank you so much. Such a amazing question.
(26:21):
I want to say something and yes,we did touch base on it on the
previous conversation we had, but I'm happy to have this
opportunity to dive deeper. I'm a lot if you are aware of my
work or or when people work withme, I'm talking a lot about self
responsibility and how it's important to be aware yourself
(26:44):
and do the work yourself. So I'm talking a lot from that
space of the individual work. However, there is only a limit
of where it is that we can go deep within our self, with our
self of course with the help of a therapy or someone else.
But where we are being exposed to the deepest, deepest, deepest
(27:10):
wound is only in long terms relationship.
So my mentor once said, if you want to know really how much you
have evolved and how much you have actually cleaned and healed
in your field, jump into a long term relationship to find out.
(27:30):
Because after the the period of honeymoon, which can take
anything from seven months to two year, depending on the
chemical component in your bodies, then the layers will go,
you will bring more and more of yourself and then the deepest
places in you will be met. And so I can work on my
(27:53):
rejection wound by myself in until a certain level.
But then I will go into a deep relationship and I will ask my
partner after 3-4 years to do something and he will say I'm
not available at the moment. And being present right there
and then, feeling the flood in my body of the rejection,
(28:16):
listening to the voices and the mind, what I call the mind, the
the thought, the stream of thoughts and the mental noise
that says, oh, he doesn't care about you.
He doesn't see you first. You're not important enough for
him then to be in observation ofwhat my field is asking me to
behave and who I think I should be in that sense.
(28:40):
All of that, this deep healing can happen only when you have a
mirror in front of you. And that mirror can be only a
long term relationship. So super important to do it
yourself and bringing awareness and bringing responsibility into
the the couple dynamic. But together you can go the
(29:05):
deepest and into the most beautiful magical places.
Really, it is an invitation to grow into the maximum potential
of human being. I would like to say that it's
like 1 + 1 = 3 when you do it that way.
Definitely. I love that.
(29:25):
Yeah. And I so I have a few more
thoughts here as well. So or questions for you.
So what science do you think show that a partner is actually?
Choosing to stay even. When it does become difficult.
Lovely. It is exactly that.
It is exactly. It is exactly.
(29:47):
This is healing, healing. This is true intimacy.
It doesn't mean oh, when I'm fully there, when I'm fully
myself. This is a really good
misconception. If I'll be really fully me,
fully myself, bring myself fullyauthentically, it's gone.
Conflict will not be everything will be lovey dovey.
(30:07):
No, but it's who we are being when conflict arrive, who we are
when the conflict comes and how we are together.
Learning how to Co regulate, learning how to repair the
ruptures, learning to stay open even when it's triggering and
(30:29):
feeling unsafe. Learning how and practising how
to say. I feel scared right now.
I feel unsafe asking for help, asking for support.
That's beautiful. This is this is where healing
happen and magic. So if love is a conscious
(30:53):
choice, because we talk a lot about consciousness and all
those things. So what does it?
Mean for a person in everyday life when you Make Love a
conscious choice. In everyday life, how how it
will look You mean it will look like I choose to be here.
(31:17):
I choose her, I choose slash him.
I love him in all of his parts. I don't want to change him.
He shouldn't be anything but whohe is.
I respect his her tempo, yeah. And I.
(31:40):
Guess also learning how to deal with conflict together I.
Guess yeah. Yeah, exactly What are my
values? Which person I want to be?
I choose to be when the conflictcome, who I don't want to be,
what it is that I can do for myself in order not to be this
(32:01):
person, how my partner can help me if he see me goes back into
my survival mechanism. Yeah.
And and I love it that you said it.
It's, it's, it's love is a conscience act because it's
really important to distinguish of what we think love is, as we
(32:22):
have been learnt in so many waysand streams through Disney
movies and through stories and through which is the beautiful
love. And then what we have learnt at
home, which can be painful and hurt.
And we can think this is love. What love is truly is, is is
(32:44):
about being present, is about being fully open to receive and
to give, is about doing the work, taking the responsibility.
It's about choosing, choosing love every single day, choosing
to be love 1st and then when I am love, then everything around
me is love. So.
(33:06):
Yeah, beautiful. So I have one more question here
that is sort of more like, what advice would you give?
To. Men and women who find
themselves repeatedly running away from relationships instead
of actually staying. I will definitely suggest, first
of all, I will tell them that you're not alone and that it's
(33:26):
hard for everyone. It's maybe the hardest task for
every human being being in a long lasting relationship and
make it work is saying it as a coach and helping people, going
through the lessons myself. So you're listening to me.
I want you to know that everything I'm saying I'm going
through went through, will go through again and everyone.
(33:51):
And so first of all, that you'renot alone and that it is OK to
feel exactly how you feel and bescared of it, want to avoid it,
want to run away from it, don't know how to handle it.
Wherever you're at, it's totallyOK.
I will definitely suggest you toask for help, go to speak with
someone and to start bringing consciousness into your way of
(34:17):
being and what it is that you have learned that love equal in
your own world when you were little.
Slowly, slowly dissolve the blind spot that are holding you
back. Building strength within
yourself, learning how to regulate yourself, learning what
(34:38):
it is that you desire from a space of love and not on fear.
And then work on it as you go. That's beautiful.
Thank you so much more for. Coming.
You're welcome. Thank you for having me and
we're looking forward to visit here again.
(34:58):
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. So here's the imitation.
What if love was not something you accidentally fall into or
fall out of? But what if it's something you
can consciously choose every single day?
(35:23):
What if presence, patience, and honesty were stronger than fear,
stronger than the impulse to escape?
Because love is not the absence of fear.
Love is the decision to stay, tobreathe, to listen, to grow,
(35:44):
even when fear is loud, even when leaving would be easier.
That choice, repeated over time,is for transforms relationships.
The choice is what makes love real.
So have you ever felt the bull to run away from love?
Or have you ever chosen to stay even when it was hard?
(36:08):
Please share your thoughts in the comments or answers in the
Bull and if this resonates with you, lease like and share.
Let's sread this conversation bychoosing love over fear.
Welcome back to 34, the space where we explore intimacy,
presence, and what it truly means to love.
We live in a time where many people are afraid of love.
Not because they don't long for it, but because they fear what
comes with it. Being seen, being vulnerable,
(00:34):
being hurt, having to face feelings, things that might have
been bearing for a long, long time.
Hiding away in closets in their minds not to be seen.
So what do they do? They run, they ghost, they keep
1 foot out of the door. They stay busy, distracted,
(00:59):
independent, because it feels safer to escape than to truly
stand still and stay. Maybe you've been there.
You meet someone who touches something deep in you.
It feels real, maybe even a little scary.
And instead of leaning in, you pull back.
(01:22):
You stop replying as quickly. You bury yourself in work, you
tell yourself you're not ready, or I'm better off alone, or I
have to do a lot of work on myself.
It's not that you don't feel love, it's that love feels too
(01:43):
much. This is what avoidance look like
in practise, and what it may feel like protection.
It often leaves both people wounded, one trapped in longing
and the other trapped in fear. But here's the truth.
Love can grow in flight. Love only grows when we choose
(02:08):
to stay, when we choose presenceover escape.
The avoidance pattern. Avoidance is not coldness.
It's fear. Fear of being trapped.
(02:29):
Fear of losing control. Fear of repeating old wounds.
But here's the paradox. In running away from love, you
often create the very trauma we fear not only in ourselves, but
in the person we leave behind. Every time someone runs, the
(02:52):
other person is left questioningtheir worth, their reality,
their trust and intimacy. They wonder, was it me?
Did I do something wrong? Am I too much?
Am I not enough? The silence of avoidance becomes
louder than any words. And here's what we rarely
(03:15):
acknowledge. The Avoidant 1 suffers too,
because deep down they long for connection just as much, but the
fear of closeness is stronger than the longing they carry the
story. If I let someone in, I'll lose
myself. If I love, I'll be hurt again.
(03:39):
So both sides hurt. 1 Drowns in abandonment, the other heights
in isolation, and the cycle repeats, relationship after
relationship, ghost after ghost,until someone dares to break it
by staying present. Love is a choice.
(04:08):
Love is not always a feeling. Feelings rise and fall like
waves. Desire can fade, fear can surge,
moods can shift. But love, love is deeper than
that. Love is a decision.
(04:31):
It is the decision to stay when it would be easier to leave, to
choose presence when fear whispers escape, run, go for it.
To say I'm scared but I'm still here instead of disappearing
behind silence for busyness. True intimacy doesn't mean it
(04:54):
will never. Hurt.
It means we dare to be there anyway, with honesty, with care,
with the willingness to grow together.
Because intimacy will touch the places where we are most
fragile. It will expose our shadows, our
(05:14):
childhood wounds, our deepest doubts.
But here's the truth, running doesn't protect us, it just
delays the pain and it multiplies it.
Staying with presence is where healing truly begins.
(05:35):
Love as a choice looks like thisin practise.
Saying I need a moment but I'm not leaving you breathing when
you want to shut down and instead looking into your
partner's eyes. Choosing to tell the truth even
when it trembles. Reaching out your hand when
(05:56):
distance feels safer. Love isn't proven in the easy
moments, it's proven when we stand still in the storm.
That's when I love you becomes more than words, it becomes a
lived choice. From fear to presence.
(06:23):
When we approach relationships from fear we close, we guard our
hearts, we build walls around them, we analyse every move, we
create exit strategies before weeven arrive.
Fear whispers. Don't trust, don't stay.
(06:44):
Don't be seen. When we approach relationships
from love, we open, we soften. We allow ourselves to be
touched, not just physically, but emotionally.
We choose to believe in the possibility of connection, even
when it scares us. It sounds simple, and in truth
(07:09):
it is. But it's also the hardest thing
we can do, because choosing lovedoesn't mean fear disappears.
Fear will always be there. Fear of loss, of reaction, of
being too much for not being enough.
(07:31):
The practise is not to silence fear, but to walk with it.
To say I see you fear. You can come along, but you
don't get to drive. Choosing love is about staying
present with the fear, Breathingwhen the impulse is to run,
(07:54):
speaking when silence feels safer, leaning in when your body
wants to retreat. Presence is the bridge.
It turns fear into intimacy. It turns hesitation into
courage. It turns What if I get hurt?
Into What if we grow strong together?
(08:18):
And every time you choose presence over avoidance, love
expands. It grows.
Welcome, Moore. So Moore Shavit is a mind body
coach, mentor and a subconsciousexpert, a guide in emotional
(08:39):
integration and a woman with a unique sensitivity to the silent
forces that shapes us, especially in our relationships
as men and women. She brings warmth, clarity and a
deep understanding of the shame we carry often.
Without even realising it. Especially when it comes to
desire, closeness, and our bodies more welcome.
I'm so grateful to have you hereagain.
(09:01):
Hey Henrik, so good to have you to come here again and thank you
for inviting me on a second time.
No, really glad to hear. You here and you've also
listened now to the episode around fear of relationships and
how it is to act from a place oflove or fear.
Yeah, what a what a deep, deep, important yeah conversation to
(09:26):
have and to bring awareness to where we can find ourselves in
relationships. So I'm looking forward to dive
into this conversation with you today.
Yeah, Thank you. I'm looking forward to the
conversation. So let's dive in and start with
the first question. So the first it's really is
you're in relationships, it's often 2 wounded individuals who
(09:49):
hurt each other. What do you feel shifts when we
see conflict through that lens? What a wonderful convert
question, Henry. It changes everything basically.
So if we are able and aware enough and brave enough to be
(10:14):
able to shift the lens from he hurts me, he is doing it to me,
It's me against him to the lens of we are two wounded kids who
are having a hard time. It changes everything because as
an adult, when you are in the playground, if you're a parent
(10:38):
or even if you're passing through adult that still doesn't
have kids and you see 24 year old having a really, really hard
time trying to communicate, trying to do something and
ending up hurting each other. I don't think any anyone will
say about any of the kids or he's such a bad person.
(11:00):
She's such a bad girl. She wanted to hurt him.
It was intentionally right. We won't see that.
What we will say, Oh, it will open our heart, we will have
compassion instead of blame, right.
And so if we are both and that'sa key, yeah, both able to shift
(11:28):
from one versus another to it's us 2 versus the wounds, then the
whole, the whole paradigm of where we are seeing the relation
from is changing. Yeah, it's a beautiful way to
look at it, right? But you also need to make that
choice as a person that you wantto work on that, right?
(11:50):
A. 100 percent, 100%. We need to have awareness first
of all, as individuals to our own nerve system and understand
what love equal in our world, how it's unsafe for us because
of what we have learned in a younger age.
(12:10):
And so understanding my own defence mechanism because in in
a relationship it can also sometimes look very different.
For example, for me to be safe, equal, I need to be in control
for another person for me to base to be safe, I need to
disappear from here. Yeah.
(12:31):
And then you have one chasing another, one person and the
other one trying to retreat and escape.
When we don't know about our self, which kind of defence
mechanism, survival mechanism weare in and we carry only that,
we are repeating the loop of thepain.
We are creating even deeper wound and deep and trauma in our
(12:54):
dynamic. Yeah.
And this is where I have these attachment styles coming into
play, which people are obviouslytalking quite a lot about right
now. More like.
Anxious or? Avoidant, which is I think the
two we're talking about here. Yes, facing off to the other who
is fleeing. Yes, yes, this.
Yeah, exactly. Because we are learning from
(13:15):
experience. And so if we have arrived into a
relationship with a mechanism, asurvival mechanism that has
given us a certain behaviour andwe are not aware of it, it will
end up showing up in our relationship and it will prove
us right. It will prove us.
And when I say like that, it means that whatever limiting
(13:37):
belief we will carry, and we don't know that it's a limiting
belief that we carry the universe and the situation will
prove us right. Meaning if I'm coming with a
limiting belief of love is not safe or in order to be safe, I
must be in control and I bring this into the relationship, then
(13:59):
the relationship will prove me right.
It means I find someone that I will always have to be in
control in order to feel safe. And that was strengthen,
strengthen my strategy in order to allow me to soften and
actually be. And This is why we see so many
split, so many people split up because.
Then you also where you also then acting from a place of fear
(14:22):
because you need to control, rather than a place of love
where you're truly loving. Exactly.
Exactly. Yeah, yes.
So I mean, on the topic, we, we,we talked about here, some
people flee intimacy or some people chase it, if you will.
Do you think there's something wrong with them or is it always
(14:44):
like a survival response on that?
Yeah, I will say that there is nothing wrong with them for
sure. There is nothing wrong with us
per SE, as human being, as humanbeing.
But we are very. But the human mind loves to find
what's wrong. This is the mechanism.
(15:05):
OK, if we're talking about specifically avoidant, it may
look like something is wrong with this person because we are
here as human being for connection, for intimacy.
And so if someone is fleeing or avoiding the one thing we came
(15:25):
here for, for the outside, it may look like, whoa, that's
something something's wrong there.
Why is this person, and I'm not only talking about romantic
relationship, intimacy is connection per SE with any other
person. Yeah.
And so when you see this loner or whatever, society will label
(15:48):
this person the weirdo, the loner, the avoidant.
All of these labels are are actually creating even worse for
that person that is suffering somuch because this person that is
avoidant intimacy, it's not happening here, it's happening
(16:10):
here. His body feeling so unsafe that
whenever he's having an attempt of connection, which is what he
desire from here, the body will say alert alert alert and will
subconsciously make him act and behave and say or not say do or
(16:33):
not do the things that will selfsabotage and make him escape
from it he's. Overwhelmed in that scenario,
more or less right? Yeah, exactly.
And we need to understand that the people that are radically
avoiding and fleeing intimacy, that means that they have
(16:55):
experience that love, equal abandonment, rejection,
suffocation and even sometimes abuse.
Yeah, and that's the sad thing with it and I think the sad
thing with it as well when you. Have people with these.
Wounds, it's, they will just continue, you know, passing on
the wounds as well because it's when somebody's fleeing, for
(17:18):
example, the person who is left behind is sort of also most in a
traumatic experience, experiencing a new trauma again.
And, and, and you know, also another thing that is as you
were saying came to me and I, I was not thinking of saying it,
but it just now came to me naturally from this
(17:40):
conversation, this raw and beautiful conversation.
I'm also was thinking of people that really have hard time with
intimacy and how lonely it mightfeel and how what a paradox that
the only way to heal they will have to be in intimacy but it's
(18:02):
the hardest trigger for them to be in how we can be.
Just as a message now in general, this human being more
open hearted, less judge, mental, less critical, less
labelling people as weird or something wrong or whatever, and
(18:24):
actually bring more love and compassion, acceptance.
Because we don't know if this person that is in front of us or
is one of the gang or is one of their friends circle that is the
little bit, the weirdo or the avoidant.
And maybe say what it is that I can do today to support him.
That is the opposite of what I've been doing until now.
(18:48):
And what is our our responsibility as a society's
human being to Yeah, to help those who really find it hard.
That's a beautiful way to put itas well, I think, because it's
everybody has their own. Journey and we don't know.
Even when you meet somebody in the street, for example, you
don't know what that that journey for that person.
(19:10):
Looks like. Yeah.
And one thing I can say as as a as a is is a certain that a
smile or or a really good intention and open heart towards
this person or any person we arecoming course can go a long
(19:33):
mile. Yeah, and that truly helps.
Yeah, yeah. So, so so I just want to say it
as a as a really make it 100% clear there is absolutely
nothing wrong with them. That's a very good message, but
how do you? Feel like.
The digital culture, and you mentioned that before as well.
(19:55):
Around like dating apps. Instant gratification, constant
comparison. How do you feel that has
reshaped? The way people build.
Or avoid real relationships. Yeah, I think it's another great
topic that can talk about it forhours, but that I think like
(20:17):
that we are not talking enough about this topic and that this
entire culture has completely rewired the way we even approach
connection. If you can think of kids today
that are 678910, they don't really.
(20:39):
They were born into this reality.
I think I'm 41, so 84 and I think I'm what we call the
generation, the in between generation.
So I can still remember the phone that if it's not answering
in the house, then you cannot reach and what to do.
And today everything is fast is is quick is, is we're becoming
(21:03):
consumering of, of connection. It's not becoming an art.
It's becoming something like another jeans we buy in Zara.
So going to the app Zara is likegoing to the app of of of men
and women. So we're, I mean relationships
becomes consumable, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
(21:26):
And with that, it's also the skill of being able to build
something for the longer term isnot being used, the skill of
being able to answer on the spot, face to face, eye to eye,
(21:46):
energy to energy. Energy is not being practised.
And so it's reshaped the entire way of connection.
So if we abuse it and we don't bring awareness to it, it can
be, it can severely damage us inthe long run.
However, if we bring awareness to it and you we use it in a
(22:11):
conscious way, like anything that we do consciously and with
balance, and we make it use the use of it, helping us in
building that ability to create real relationship, then it can
be a good thing. But it will require a lot of
(22:35):
awareness, a lot of discipline and a lot of bravery to to
pursue it in the old way. And yeah.
I can see that for sure also in kids today in the way they are
consuming things is it is in a different rate than what you and
(22:57):
I were used to. It goes so much quicker and a
lot of I see also a lot of relations when it comes to like,
you know, dating and relationships.
It's like people are always looking for something better as
well, right. So it's.
Yes, yes and that is and this better it's related connected
(23:22):
fully to I'm not enough that we are already caring and so this
is strengthening conditional love which love and intimacy
doesn't live in that field. It lives in presence and in
slowing down and in unconditional love that you are
(23:44):
allowed to be who you are fully.And I assume you must be seeing
this with your clients as well, that these are some of the
challenges they're facing, I guess, on a day-to-day basis.
Definitely, definitely. And also I have to say one more
thing about it that not many people know that when you are in
this virtual space and you get this like swipe or I've never
(24:07):
had a Tinder because I was not in the time of it.
I was already married so but I know all of it and I know all of
dating apps and I have a lot of girlfriends that are still in
the market. Even the way we talk about it.
Yeah, if you can think about it like the market and the single
hood and and really this swipe and the way it's design.
(24:34):
I I really want people to know it.
The way it's design is to give you a short of dopamine that is
lasted for one minute, one day, one hour and then it's gone.
So if young people are listeningto it and even not young people,
people in their mid life and they are in the dating scene and
(24:57):
they want to feel connected and real, then I would recommend you
to take the eyes off the screen and go out to anywhere,
anywhere. Because love can come anywhere.
In the supermarket, in the coffee shops and look around and
create eye contact and practise eye contact, practise reading
(25:19):
energy, feeling yourself around other people, feeling the
magnetic pool and act on it. Ask for a date.
As a woman, I can say out loud here, man, that there is nothing
more appealing these days than aman that will actually approach
(25:39):
a woman in a bar like old schooland ask her out and give her a
compliment. So yeah.
Yeah, it's a good thing. That's a good tip for all the
men out there. As well.
I mean, we, we, we talk now about, you know, sort of
attachment styles and, and that people have wounds and they're
(26:00):
the need to heal. And we've also touched on that
in a previous discussion where we talked about sort of healing
in relationship. So.
You what does it? Mean to really heal in a
relationship rather than outsideof it if we go a bit deeper on
that topic. I love the questions, Henrik,
really thank you so much. Such a amazing question.
(26:21):
I want to say something and yes,we did touch base on it on the
previous conversation we had, but I'm happy to have this
opportunity to dive deeper. I'm a lot if you are aware of my
work or or when people work withme, I'm talking a lot about self
responsibility and how it's important to be aware yourself
(26:44):
and do the work yourself. So I'm talking a lot from that
space of the individual work. However, there is only a limit
of where it is that we can go deep within our self, with our
self of course with the help of a therapy or someone else.
But where we are being exposed to the deepest, deepest, deepest
(27:10):
wound is only in long terms relationship.
So my mentor once said, if you want to know really how much you
have evolved and how much you have actually cleaned and healed
in your field, jump into a long term relationship to find out.
(27:30):
Because after the the period of honeymoon, which can take
anything from seven months to two year, depending on the
chemical component in your bodies, then the layers will go,
you will bring more and more of yourself and then the deepest
places in you will be met. And so I can work on my
(27:53):
rejection wound by myself in until a certain level.
But then I will go into a deep relationship and I will ask my
partner after 3-4 years to do something and he will say I'm
not available at the moment. And being present right there
and then, feeling the flood in my body of the rejection,
(28:16):
listening to the voices and the mind, what I call the mind, the
the thought, the stream of thoughts and the mental noise
that says, oh, he doesn't care about you.
He doesn't see you first. You're not important enough for
him then to be in observation ofwhat my field is asking me to
behave and who I think I should be in that sense.
(28:40):
All of that, this deep healing can happen only when you have a
mirror in front of you. And that mirror can be only a
long term relationship. So super important to do it
yourself and bringing awareness and bringing responsibility into
the the couple dynamic. But together you can go the
(29:05):
deepest and into the most beautiful magical places.
Really, it is an invitation to grow into the maximum potential
of human being. I would like to say that it's
like 1 + 1 = 3 when you do it that way.
Definitely. I love that.
(29:25):
Yeah. And I so I have a few more
thoughts here as well. So or questions for you.
So what science do you think show that a partner is actually?
Choosing to stay even. When it does become difficult.
Lovely. It is exactly that.
It is exactly. It is exactly.
(29:47):
This is healing, healing. This is true intimacy.
It doesn't mean oh, when I'm fully there, when I'm fully
myself. This is a really good
misconception. If I'll be really fully me,
fully myself, bring myself fullyauthentically, it's gone.
Conflict will not be everything will be lovey dovey.
(30:07):
No, but it's who we are being when conflict arrive, who we are
when the conflict comes and how we are together.
Learning how to Co regulate, learning how to repair the
ruptures, learning to stay open even when it's triggering and
(30:29):
feeling unsafe. Learning how and practising how
to say. I feel scared right now.
I feel unsafe asking for help, asking for support.
That's beautiful. This is this is where healing
happen and magic. So if love is a conscious
(30:53):
choice, because we talk a lot about consciousness and all
those things. So what does it?
Mean for a person in everyday life when you Make Love a
conscious choice. In everyday life, how how it
will look You mean it will look like I choose to be here.
(31:17):
I choose her, I choose slash him.
I love him in all of his parts. I don't want to change him.
He shouldn't be anything but whohe is.
I respect his her tempo, yeah. And I.
(31:40):
Guess also learning how to deal with conflict together I.
Guess yeah. Yeah, exactly What are my
values? Which person I want to be?
I choose to be when the conflictcome, who I don't want to be,
what it is that I can do for myself in order not to be this
(32:01):
person, how my partner can help me if he see me goes back into
my survival mechanism. Yeah.
And and I love it that you said it.
It's, it's, it's love is a conscience act because it's
really important to distinguish of what we think love is, as we
(32:22):
have been learnt in so many waysand streams through Disney
movies and through stories and through which is the beautiful
love. And then what we have learnt at
home, which can be painful and hurt.
And we can think this is love. What love is truly is, is is
(32:44):
about being present, is about being fully open to receive and
to give, is about doing the work, taking the responsibility.
It's about choosing, choosing love every single day, choosing
to be love 1st and then when I am love, then everything around
me is love. So.
(33:06):
Yeah, beautiful. So I have one more question here
that is sort of more like, what advice would you give?
To. Men and women who find
themselves repeatedly running away from relationships instead
of actually staying. I will definitely suggest, first
of all, I will tell them that you're not alone and that it's
(33:26):
hard for everyone. It's maybe the hardest task for
every human being being in a long lasting relationship and
make it work is saying it as a coach and helping people, going
through the lessons myself. So you're listening to me.
I want you to know that everything I'm saying I'm going
through went through, will go through again and everyone.
(33:51):
And so first of all, that you'renot alone and that it is OK to
feel exactly how you feel and bescared of it, want to avoid it,
want to run away from it, don't know how to handle it.
Wherever you're at, it's totallyOK.
I will definitely suggest you toask for help, go to speak with
someone and to start bringing consciousness into your way of
(34:17):
being and what it is that you have learned that love equal in
your own world when you were little.
Slowly, slowly dissolve the blind spot that are holding you
back. Building strength within
yourself, learning how to regulate yourself, learning what
(34:38):
it is that you desire from a space of love and not on fear.
And then work on it as you go. That's beautiful.
Thank you so much more for. Coming.
You're welcome. Thank you for having me and
we're looking forward to visit here again.
(34:58):
Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. So here's the imitation.
What if love was not something you accidentally fall into or
fall out of? But what if it's something you
can consciously choose every single day?
(35:23):
What if presence, patience, and honesty were stronger than fear,
stronger than the impulse to escape?
Because love is not the absence of fear.
Love is the decision to stay, tobreathe, to listen, to grow,
(35:44):
even when fear is loud, even when leaving would be easier.
That choice, repeated over time,is for transforms relationships.
The choice is what makes love real.
So have you ever felt the bull to run away from love?
Or have you ever chosen to stay even when it was hard?
(36:08):
Please share your thoughts in the comments or answers in the
Bull and if this resonates with you, lease like and share.
Let's sread this conversation bychoosing love over fear.
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