September 15, 2025 • 52 mins
Andy, originally from New Zealand and now living in London, opens up about his journey with intimacy, vulnerability and what it means to be a man today.
From a grounded upbringing to moments of awakening, he reflects on mistakes, lessons and the courage it takes to truly stay present.
Together, Andy and Henrik explore how presence, humility and growth can reshape the way we connect — moving beyond ego, into real intimacy
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Episode Transcript
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(00:10):
So welcome back to 34 O In this episode I'm joined by Andy.
Andy's, a man from New Zealand who's been living in London for
the past six years. Andy's a very grounded and with
a state of presence, but also a deep curiosity about love,
intimacy, and what makes relationships thrive and
(00:30):
sometimes fail. And today, we're going to
explore his personal journey, what he has learned along the
way, and what it means to connect in a way that's both
safe and deeply central. I'm really glad to have you here
on the show, Andy. Welcome.
Well, thank you very much, Henrik.
It's it's nice to be here first time on the podcast, but I'm
(00:53):
enjoying the opportunity to to have a talk about some of the
the life lessons and how I applythem on a day-to-day as much as
possible in in life and in love.That's.
Beautiful. I think you're very brave to
come on the show and and talk asopenly as you are, so I think
(01:14):
it's beautiful. So anything else you want to add
on your own background? You obviously come up from, You
grew up in New Zealand and you moved to Europe into the UK.
So how do you feel? Was that transition busy for
you? It was, it was an interesting
transition for me. You know, it's I, I used to
(01:36):
think that growing up in New Zealand was just an average
upbringing, largely because I just didn't have the, the
exposure to, to the rest of the world.
You know, I come from a, a loving family with a, a mum and
dad and a stable background. I've always had a, a loving hand
(01:59):
on my back saying that, you know, I'll be supported if I, if
I fail. And it's not necessarily
something I've leaned into or taken advantage of, but I think
it's given me a sense of self that has really benefited me in
my growth. I think I was, I was really made
(02:19):
aware of that when I first came over to the UK and explored and
got an opportunity to see how diverse and multicultural it is
and recognise just some of the extent of my privilege.
Because at the end of the day, there's so many people that are
(02:41):
raised and, and exist in, in, inworlds and societies, families
where they might not have a lot of love that's given to them and
they might have to, to struggle.Or, and what people in my
position have have looked at as,as a given, you know, things
(03:02):
like the security of a constant home as a, as a childhood.
I think things like loving support and and just just
knowing that you've got people that you can turn to if there is
an issue or if you're feeling hurt, there's people in your
corner that will stand behind you.
(03:23):
That must give you a lot of goodfoundation to stand on that that
makes you feel a lot safe. It does, it does and it's it's
also in and of itself a little bit risky.
And I've, I've learnt that because to some degree, as as
(03:45):
beautiful as it is, what it's then done is it's given me a, a
naivety or even an ignorance to the rest of the world up until
that point. And I'm still learning now, but
just meeting, meeting some people and being in the face of,
of some of their lived experiences and recognising I've
(04:09):
got no grounds on which to connect on this.
And, and just recognising that there's a difference in in life
that that shapes, that's beautiful.
So how would you describe your, if we put the lens here on sort
of love and intimacy, how do youfeel like your your journey has
(04:31):
been when it comes to love and intimacy?
I fall in love easily and I think I I fall in love easily
because I I haven't been hurt. I hadn't been hurt.
I think it's, it's given me a, you know, life in life in New
Zealand and a secure, safe upbringing has given me an idea
(04:55):
of what it is that I looked for in a relationship dynamic.
I look at my parents who are still together and love each
other. And yes, they might have had
years when they, when they mightnot have seen eye to eye on a
lot of things. At the end of the day, they're
invested in each other and they're working towards living
up a long and happy life. But I think with with life comes
(05:20):
experience and through, through what am I trying to say?
Through, through looking at the like an approach that I took to,
to the end, recognising negativity and holding space for
(05:41):
myself and for other people around me.
I think there's a, a limited tolerance and a limited window
of exposure that I allowed for myself and for other people
because I came from this, this background of, of happy, you
know, focus on the positives, live a live a good life and, and
(06:03):
be finding opportunities to, to enjoy yourself.
It kind of meant that I, I was quite unpracticed when it came
to being in a space where you might feel sad and actually
sitting with that and having patience with oneself to feel
the depth of those feelings. So that I guess until the last
(06:26):
maybe 18 months or so, when lifehappens, it's not really
something that I've had an opportunity to do.
As I said, I mentioned before, if you ask me some of these
questions 18 months ago, I probably would have given you a
world of different answers, you know?
I appreciate that. So have you ever felt like you
had to sort of perform a certainkind of masculinity?
(06:48):
And if So, what did that look like for you?
Yeah, I mean, I guess the question is what is masculinity
looks for me look like to me. I think I grew up in a house
with mum, dad and three boys andthere was a lot of lot of power
(07:09):
play dynamics. I was the eldest son, so I was
always testing what the boundaries were.
And my father's huge heart love him dearly.
So he's a huge character. He's a military man through and
through. He was quick good at separating
military and home. But there was a boundary of, you
know, it's his house, it's his, his rules.
(07:32):
And so that sort of imposed a little bit of the, the mindset
of, OK, this is a, a PowerPoint that potentially needs to be
pushed up against to understand what masculinity is.
And to be honest, I look, I lookat dad and I'm, I'm quite
admiring of him and, and his life and the things that he's
(07:55):
gone through. I think he exhibits A stoicism
that, yes, can give a hug and can spread love deeply, but it
doesn't represent itself as as oh, you're having a a feeling.
Let's let's discuss that with curiosity to understand why in
(08:16):
often cases that they throw in comedic comedic, you know, said
with love. But but things like eat a
concrete pill and harden up or build a bridge and get over it.
So it didn't necessarily masculinity presents itself as
something that gives an opportunity to sit with negative
(08:37):
emotions and to understand wherethey're coming from and why
those voices are, are making noise and, and speaking out as
they are. So that's not necessarily
something that I had the experience or, or know how to
exhibit through masculinity. I think then for me, that
presented itself as being relatively dismissive of not
(09:00):
only my my own, but of other people's hurt or sadness.
And, and yeah, I look back on itand I don't necessarily look
back on it with pride. I had a friend who was going
through some some deep, some deep issues, experiencing some
dark thoughts. And my response to that at the
time was don't think that let's let's go up, let's go bowling.
(09:22):
You know, we'll distract you with some, some positive stuff,
thinking that's a good thing to do, an actual fact.
In hindsight, what I recognise Idid was just dismiss my friend's
position and, and not really give it the gravity of, of where
he's at now. I mean, they're, they're still a
wonderful human, they're kickingaround and we've developed our
(09:45):
friendship to a much deeper degree.
But it was an insight into myself to say, OK, how I made
someone feel this way by doing what I thought was actually a
better, a better action, rather than sitting in the negativity
to actually go out and spend that time doing something happy.
I think that's, that's the, the fix it mindset of, you know, the
(10:09):
masculine world where I've come up from and you, you sort of
recognise your value by the solutions that you can provide.
And that's not often what's needed.
You know, sometimes through masculinity it's just a safe
place to be held and be listenedto because sometimes there's no
(10:32):
answer, there's no solution. People just need to be seen and
recognised through the presence of of you being there and
actually acknowledging what it is that they're going through.
I think it's beautiful you say that because what I see with a
lot of, and I've been talking toa lot of women here now on the
show, I think one thing they actually lack from the men is
really the thing that just sit there and listen and hear them.
(10:56):
And guys quite often just go in into that fix it mode.
As you said, right, that is justabout, hey, you have a problem,
let me fix it for you. So in one way it comes from a
nice place, but it sort of undermines the feelings of the
other person in that sense, right?
It does and and I think it's it's in some way, like I say,
representative of the world that, you know, a lot of young
(11:20):
men are brought up and it's you know, you what, what can you do?
What can you provide? Obviously the, the old school
traditional mindset of a man providing for a nuclear family
is no longer the world that we live in, but there's a lot of
traits that sort of carry on forover from that.
(11:40):
And a man's worth is what's his income, How strong a fighter is
he? What can he do to to protect his
his family and provide for them as opposed to to sit down and
and be soft and intimate and attentive?
Yeah. And I think that's that's an era
where I think today, particularly now with a lot of
(12:01):
women also being financially stable themselves, I think that
sort of need has sort of shiftedfrom what they look for in a man
as well, right? It's sort of shifting more
towards the emotional aspect that is needed when I think also
a lot of the guys sort of have ahard time actually opening up
and talking about feelings and emotions, right?
(12:23):
Yeah. And and I like to think it's
changing. You know, I'm, I'm mid, just
past my mid 30s now and, and I talk with, you know, young guys
in their early 20s or late teensas I, as I had the
opportunities. And they're quite happy to, to
pause and say, look, this is, this is my neuro diversity.
And these are the feelings that I'm having.
(12:45):
And, and these are some of the things that I'd like to talk or
be a little bit more involved ina conversation.
So I hope the world's changing in a, in a, in a way that
doesn't necessarily oversteer, but creates opportunities for
more of a a balanced between people.
I would agree on that too. And I think that's also what I
think this podcast is all about,actually helping to spread that
(13:08):
message around that by opening up and being more present, I
think we can be creating a change.
That is a good 'cause every every bit towards the cause say
thank you for the opportunity. No, I appreciate you being here.
So and you, you mentioned 18 months ago that it feels like
there was sort of a pivotal timefor you on your journey and is
(13:32):
that a moment where you think something shifted for you?
Yeah. I mean, is it 18 months?
What are we all this now? Something like that.
Not quite 18 months, but I was in AI, was in a long term
relationship which which ended and a few other sort of life
elements came in. It's given an opportunity.
(13:54):
It's the best way to look at it,to look at myself in perspective
and look at how I I approach my,my ability to hold space and to
be conscious, considerate for people around me.
(14:18):
Bit of self-awareness came through really, I think there,
there were a lot of areas as I sort of looked at that that I
could grow from as, as a youngerman and look at, you know, some
of the my actions that don't necessarily serve me.
(14:39):
And, you know, I did a little bit of inner child work and I
think at the end of the day, me and my inner child were, were
good, but I'm, I'm reckless and I'm reckless with myself and I
can be reckless with the people around me.
I'm just looking at that and theimpact of it.
You know, it's, it's an opportunity for growth.
(15:02):
A lot of people can live their life unchecked.
And certainly, you know, with mysafe, secure background and
having at the time when I came to the UK, which is where I'm at
now, already planning to be herefor a couple of years, I kind of
picked up this extended holiday mode with life.
So I wasn't, I wasn't investing in, in people or in a future
(15:23):
here. And sort of a passing mentality.
I think that allowed for, yeah, a dismissive mindset where it
didn't necessarily factor in therealities of other people with
all the depth to which they, they might sort of be impacted
by the waves of me passing through life.
(15:46):
As much as, you know, there are elements that I want to grow
from. There's there's a lot of love
for myself. And I think, you know, in, in,
in the quiet times, as I'm sitting there looking at myself,
I had an opportunity to look notto the inner child, but to
conceptual future version of me.I don't know why.
(16:08):
It wasn't intentional. It wasn't meditative, tried
meditating, not really big on it, but it was in a quiet moment
just with myself. And I imagined a future version
of me who was maybe in his late 80s, and I saw him quite clearly
in my mind and he was walking along a train track.
(16:30):
For some reason, he was topless tell that at some point he'd
gotten his life on track. He'd gotten healthy and somewhat
fit. He obviously had not worn enough
sunscreen because he was tanned and leathered.
But he he was good. You know, he'd lived a life.
And I think at that point in time, I was questioning myself
(16:52):
and questioning a lot of my values in the world and who I am
as a human. And I looked at him and I sort
of just nodded. And he looked at me, paused and,
and nodded. And whether or not you believe
in any of this or not, I don't even know if I do.
(17:13):
But what I took from it is this future version of me.
He's good with me. You know, he's lived my life up
to that point and he's lived a lot more since.
And he's OK. And so he has sort of become the
person that I'm now living for at the end of the day, you know,
he's, he's my truth. He's where I want to work
(17:34):
towards, to honour and myself honour the future version of me.
And yes, maybe grow from some ofthe more immature aspects of
life and, and mature into sort of a, a man that I have more or
love for and more respect for and, and can, can practise a lot
more of that that intimacy and, and emotional like presence,
(17:58):
which I think is incredibly valuable.
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks. So if it's necessarily balanced
or or true, but it's a, it's a nice concept to to envision.
Now with that though, I mean, you, you mentioned here before
about your upbringing, all thesethings about it feels like, you
(18:20):
know, emotionally you've been very safe.
So what does it really mean for you when you think about first
of all yourself, but also when you're with a partner, how would
you sort of elaborate on sort ofemotional safety?
Because it feels like you are a very grounded man, right?
Yeah. And in a lot of ways, I mean
there's always, there's always wobbles in life as you as you
(18:41):
exit your comfort zone and have new experiences that allow you
to look at yourself in perspective.
But I think through through a lot of growth.
I would say that for me, emotional safety for myself and
some others is it starts from like a listening, you know,
(19:04):
actually actually being there toto listen and to understand
where whatever voice it is that speaking is coming from.
You know, if there's something that you need to tell yourself,
something that someone else is telling you, putting putting
value into that, understanding where it's coming from and then
(19:29):
actually just honouring that andput in consideration into to how
your your thoughts and actions about yourself or with other
people can then impact that. And it's about, I think,
prioritising that safety, but that that can be things, you
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know, as as simple as just holding space.
That's a beautiful thing way to do it when you for me, when you
start talking then about. Holding space and I think to to
even go there, I think you also need to think about
vulnerability and how do you feel like your relationship with
(20:10):
vulnerability? How has it looked like through
the years? Has it felt like easy,
terrifying, liberating, or all of the above?
I mean, to be honest, I, I, I, Iwear my heart on the sleeve.
And I would generally say the first thing that comes into my
(20:31):
mind for where I'm at. I don't think I've personally
had much, much, many, many barriers in terms of being
vulnerable myself. But in saying that, I think by
having been dismissive of some of the negative spaces that I
(20:52):
feel in the past that that in and of itself is there's an
avoidant mindset. And in doing so, I'm stepping
away from the ability to be vulnerable.
I think, you know, vulnerabilitynow, yes, is, is something that
you need to access to be able tohold space.
(21:12):
It's, it's something that I think is, is part of life as
much as enjoying the, the, the happy, the excitement, the last
fall. There's, there's value and
actually appreciating when you feel uncertain or nervous or
anxious. And you know, I think there's,
(21:37):
there's, there's a point where you sort of have to stop and
lean into yourself and, and listen, you know, there's a,
there's a boardroom of directorsinside yourself.
And if one of them's making a lot of noise, there's a reason
behind that. So you stop and you and you say,
OK, I'm going to give you time. I mean, I'm going to understand
where this voice is coming from and why is that vulnerability?
(22:00):
I think I don't know. I.
Think, yeah, I think it sounds like a better thing with yours.
So I sometimes think about like we all have like these part
personalities. And I like your analogy there
with the board of directors you have in the mind, right, so.
Yeah, it's, it's actually one that my brother told me a few
months ago as I was sort of working through some things in
life. And, and, you know, I had a lot
(22:20):
of, a lot of deep feelings in there.
And, and I really wasn't at thatpoint in my life equipped to,
to, to sit and hold space to myself and understand where
these feelings are coming from. But I do well with analogies and
obviously he does too. So he shared that with me and
it's that's when I've taken forward.
Yeah, I like it a lot. So it seems like, I mean, you
(22:42):
mentioned here that you were notequipped with all these tools.
So have you? Do you feel like there's been
situations where you wanted to be met emotionally but you
weren't and you do at that pointof time?
Yes. It's not necessarily that I
wanted to be emotional, but I couldn't.
It's that I didn't have the ability to understand why I was
(23:04):
emotional or, or what was the the key reasons behind it.
And I'm not one of those guys who translates it to, to anger
or to loudness. Never been one to punch a wall.
But definitely, like, there's this point to my life here.
(23:27):
I've I've felt deeply sad and I have whipped into a pillow.
You know, it's, it's not, it's not something that's ever held
me back. Yeah, it's definitely been in
space. But.
But what it would be is, is I would weep into a pillow and
then I would brush those tears away because at some point I
(23:51):
needed to harden up, build a bridge, get over it and, and
move on with life. And I think it's that that
forced stoicism, which I I do believe has a place in life to,
to stiff up a lip and get through what it is that you're
going through. But I think that needs to be A
(24:14):
to get through where you are right now so that you can then
feel those emotions in a safe container.
You know, the emotions should befelt sometimes through the
practicalities of life. You can't necessarily have a
breakdown in the moment. You know, you need to get back
to your bedroom and find a quietmoment and sit there and
reflect. And if that means you're going
to get deeply sad and feel the depth of those, then good.
(24:35):
I think that's the right thing to do because, you know, a lot
of ways we, we hold on and we, we compartmentalise because we
need to, to get through to, to, you know, finish the day of work
or whatever it happens to be so that people can't see us being
sad and emotional. But I'm, I'm sort of blessed
with a community at the moment that allows and encourages me
(24:56):
to, to be as emotional as I wantto be of, you know, like
there's, there's been points in my life where I have, I have
wept into the shoulders of, of friends and I've been held and,
you know, going back to what we said before, they haven't tried
to find a solution. They've just held me.
And and that in and of itself isis beautiful.
That helps a lot. So when we think about then
(25:19):
adding into this like masculinity, we talk about that
and then desire and shame and these type of things.
Have you ever experienced any tension between desire and
emotional connection? Let.
Me. Think about that for a second.
Tension between desire, emotional connection.
I mean, I don't know necessarilyabout tension between the two.
(25:45):
I think if you can operate them hand in hand, it's it's it's
incredibly beneficial not only for yourself, but it would be
you're experiencing your desire around.
Yeah, I think I have to think onthat one a little.
Bit that's OK, but have you everthen felt ashamed of your needs,
(26:06):
either emotionally, sexually or relationally?
Yeah, there's been times not I think emotionally or, or
sexually, but relationship wise,I think there's, there's been
points when I've looked at whereI'm at and some of the capacity
(26:30):
that I have to, to hold space for others and to, to turn up
and to be in an ongoing state of, of tolerance and, and the
limitations that it's then givenfor me to connect and be
available to someone. I've looked back on with some
(26:52):
elements of shame. I think that's through through
myself. And as we sort of thought
previously, there's that mindsetof moving to be a fixer like
through see other people talkingto me and me holding space for
them and, and trying to fix it. Yeah, trying to fix it again and
again. And eventually I get to a point
(27:15):
where my, my tolerance for that situation says, well, if I'm
offering a solution and the solution's not being taken,
what's the point in having a conversation further?
And and that's caused issues, that's, that's been, you know,
my, me getting fed up with a situation and then reacting or
(27:36):
limiting what can then occur or be discussed or, or felt because
I'm questioning them what my value is.
And you know what contribution Ican add if I've tried before and
it hasn't gone anywhere. That's certainly how I felt at
the time looking back on that. Yeah, there's a bit of shame
(27:57):
because I think with, with with hindsight, you obviously
recognise that it's not necessarily being in a position
where you need to fix something,but it's just hold space, be
considerate, recognise where someone's at and their
experience in their life and just be there.
(28:17):
So I think that was maybe maybe it is a little bit tied into the
emotional, you know, that I feltquite, quite drained and put
these these boundaries up in life, which then translated to
me not having an ability to to be attentive or listening to
(28:37):
someone else, which can completely understand how it
then reads like that. It, it obviously wasn't for the,
for the betterment or support ofpeople in my life who, who
needed it at that time. So it was a yeah, it was a bit
of shame tied in with that. Yeah.
But it's also, it also comes with growth.
And that's part of what I've been on the journey of over the
(29:01):
last 1218 months on is looking at that and staying what comes
as a result of, of putting theseboundaries up or not being able
to communicate where I'm at clearly enough in in the time
that I need to ahead of it getting to that point, not that
it became explosive, but it justbecame distant.
(29:25):
Yeah, and that's another type ofreaction you can get when you
when you trigger them away. Yeah, well, you sort of start to
close yourself off a little. Bit as well.
So in your view though, if we ifwe think about intimacy as a
another topic there, what do youthink men today most need to
unlearn when it comes to intimacy or what behaviours men
(29:49):
need to sort of deprogram? I think, I think the, the key
one is the, the dissociation of,of intimacy and sex.
Like I think I can only speak for some of the people that I
(30:12):
know, but there's a, there's a connection that exists in their
minds that says, OK, if I'm going to be intimate with
someone, we need to be naked. And that's, that's not the case.
You know, there's, there's so many ways to be intimate with
someone through bringing your, you know, your, your sense of
(30:35):
being, your presence into another person's space.
And, and just being that intimacy can be something as
simple as, as working together on a, on a combined task can be
(30:55):
a, a father and a son playing catch or something.
There's, there's hot fishing levels of intimacy.
And it doesn't have to be physical to achieve that.
It's, it's, it's two people bothbeing present in the moment of,
of what they're sharing. And that that can be a myriad of
(31:18):
things, I think. Yeah.
And I think I love what you're saying there because I think a
lot of the guys I've been talking to as well, they're,
they're very sort of performative looking for
performing, particularly when they think what intimacy is
about performance. And for me, I think it's much
more about actually sitting down.
And to your point, intimacy can be so many other things than
(31:39):
just being naked. Absolutely.
Yeah. It's it's, there's almost more
things than being naked than it can be.
I mean, being naked is definitely a part of intimacy,
right? But it's not the only part of
intimacy. Oh absolutely, And, and and
being intimate and naked is a fantastic thing as well of.
(32:00):
Course it is, but it's not beautiful.
Beautiful ways to experience that and to to share that with
young people. Yeah.
And I think for me, I think when, when guys can go into the
physical intimacy, when you're naked and not thinking but
performing themselves, but actually being present in that
moment, that's when you can create beauty together with your
partner in one way, right? Yeah, absolutely.
(32:24):
I, I've had moments when I'm physically with other people and
I'm, I'm not present. I've had moments where I'm, you
know, in the reverse role and I'm with someone and I know
they're not present. And it completely, completely
changes the dynamic. It almost makes it hollow to
(32:49):
some degree. I think I've I've walked away
from some experiences thinking, gosh, that that really wasn't
fulfilling at all. Yeah, you must feel more empty
afterwards, right? Yeah, I mean, don't get me
wrong, I've, I've, I've sometimes gone into environments
knowing I'm not going to be present and, and, you know,
(33:13):
incredibly intimate and it's, it's just a, a party of people
connecting and having experiences.
Yeah, that's fine. I don't think there's a
requirement on every interactionto be intimate or, or entirely
present. But I think if, if you're, if
you're not, if if you're, if your mind's elsewhere, someone
(33:35):
else's mind is, is there, you know, seeking you that can then
leave them hollow. I think it's really good to sort
of have a conversation up quite like a conversation.
But if you recognise that shepherd at the time, but one of
them, you know, is a discussion point around meaning and you
(33:56):
know, understanding before any sort of active intimacy.
Where are you both at? Like what's what's the meaning
going into this? Is it is it something that
actually you haven't been intimate with someone for quite
a long time? And therefore this is a little
bit scary and a little bit nervewracking.
And can we, can we put some attention into, into where we're
(34:19):
at? I think it's it's beautiful to
establish that with people. I do agree on that.
And I think a lot for what I've also seen is a lot of people
think it's, well, I think it's more about actually it's easier
to give your body than your heart, right, In other ways.
Yeah, yeah. You can control your body.
(34:41):
You cannot control your mind andyour emotions in the same way.
That is, that is true is. It's definitely a limitation
there, but maybe a lot of it comes with practise and.
True, true that it's an additional way to look at it.
I think, I think conscious touchfor the, for the inner hippie
(35:03):
inside me is a really good way to sort of bring attention to
the body and to where you're at,not only in yourself and, and
how you're connecting with someone, but how they're then
receiving your, your connection in your presence.
And, and how, how they give you feedback.
(35:25):
Because, you know, you can then take that and, and understand
immediately whether or not they're they're with you or
they're, you know, elsewhere. I like that.
So you, you mentioned it before about, you know, some of the
growth you've done healing in the work with within a child.
So are these type of practises or experiences that really help
(35:46):
you grow in your relationship toyourself because you feel like
you've you've done your, your journey or you're on the
journey, but also then in relation to others, if you will,
are there any other things? You worked on on the journey?
Definitely on the journey. I think I've spent it's been a
good, good a few years saying that, you know, my, my journey
(36:08):
is done and I actually don't need to develop, which looking
back on gosh, there's, there's so much to develop.
I think I'm always going to be developing now shifting mindset.
I think, you know, the, the the journey that I've been on has
allowed me to be a lot more present in myself and and slow
(36:30):
down. I think you mentioned slow down
earlier, take and expectation away from myself or any
interaction and just be be present and appreciating each of
the small moments. And if that's, you know, simply
sitting there reading a book or doing a board game, you know,
(36:53):
there's there's power in being present with that.
And whatever you happen to be doing at a given point in your
time is where your attention is going.
And I think, you know, people say, you know, money makes the
world work. Yes, it does.
But but money can't buy time. And so time therefore becomes
(37:18):
one of the most valuable resources.
And you spend time through your attention.
That's it's what you're giving your attention to.
That then becomes what is valuable in life.
And that's, well, that's when you're present in that case,
right? As you say, or like when you're
when you're truly present, it takes time to be there.
(37:41):
Yeah, yeah. And so the concept of, you know,
is it, is it a waste of time? Well, if you're if you're being
present and you're consciously doing whatever task it happens
to be, then you're not wasting time because you're you're
spending it either on yourself or with other people or, or in
that moment, that's your intimacy with whatever it
happens to be in front of you. So do you feel there are parts
(38:04):
of yourself that you've only recently started to accept or
reclaim? Well, I think, I think future
Andy is a concept that for me has in the past served me very
well. I'm doing a lot of work for my
development, for my growth, for my studies and, and career.
(38:27):
And I think as I mentioned, I came to the UK with a bit of a
holiday mindset and very quicklyfive years slipped by and I
recognised well in this time, yes, I've had a lot of
experiences, but actual self investment and looking at future
Andy has not been a priority forme because there's been other
(38:51):
things that I've been focused on.
And yes, that must have been nice, but, and actually, I'd
actually lost a sense of direction to some of this growth
as well for this, for this old version of me who's got
leathered skin. There's, there's a life to to
(39:11):
live and to work towards. And it's, it's incredibly
valuable to have a sense of purpose, even if you don't know
what that is, other than living for yourself.
So in terms of reclaiming something that's that's
definitely there in terms of, you know, fixing anything that's
that's broken or, you know, parts of my childhood or a child
(39:34):
that that hasn't, hasn't, you know, developed or been OK with
myself. I honestly think he's good.
Like, like I, I feel comfortablein myself and, and the growth
that's in front of me is something I look forward to.
That was. Beautiful, beautiful way to look
(39:55):
at it. So you're, you're going in to
the future with an open heart, basically.
Open open heart, open mind. Yeah, I don't know what you know
my life is going to look like infive years, but but I know I'm
going to walk towards it with with eagerness.
(40:16):
Which is beautiful. So what has been one of your
hardest lessons when it comes tolove or being loved?
I don't think I've I've got any issue being loved.
I certainly feel worthy of love hasn't been things in my life
(40:36):
which have stopped me from from feeling that maybe a bit of a
hiccup along the way, but checking in with yourself, I
feel that that's not not an issue for me in terms of the way
I love. I mean, I think it just needs to
be with, with consideration and prioritisation of whoever
(41:04):
happens to be in my life to, to validate where they're at and
what they're going through. And, and looking at the, the
shared value system that we haveand, and giving the gravitas of
that to, to honour with not onlymy own, but other people's
(41:25):
perspectives and, and views on the world.
It's it's not just something to take for granted, I think.
That's beautiful. So if you think about then like
you mentioned, your future self,like the future that it's been
serving you really well. But if if you add in then
relationships in that, what do you feel you're learning about
(41:46):
building something lasting that is not just passionate, but also
something that you will. Build in the future.
Yeah. So, so that's another thing that
I've, I've sort of been doing a bit of reading on and and
podcasts and it resonates with me.
There's, there's a big difference between lost and
passion and a sense of security and home.
(42:11):
And I think lost, lost and passion can can come, you know,
in many forms, through many people and relationships, sense
of security and calmness. You know, that that's incredibly
valuable to to have a sense of peace only in the home, but in
one itself. And I think that comes from an
(42:33):
alignment in values and goals and how you view the world.
If, if two people misaligned andhow they view the world or where
they're putting their priorities, there's going to be
there's going to be conflict, a clash in someone having to be in
a state of tolerance or or someone not feeling seen because
(42:57):
what for them might be quite meaningful is actually just
another Tuesday for for someone else.
Yeah, it's beautiful when you say that and say it like that.
I mean, I, I see for me, I always think about like
emotional, intellectual and sexual attraction when it comes
to these things or connection. And if you don't and then you
(43:17):
have obviously have the core values being a key part of that,
right? When you, when you look into
that and that obviously can create conflict as you say.
So on that by the way, how do you navigate conflict repair or
even distance in relationships today?
Still still learning. Still learning?
(43:39):
It's not an easy one because that's probably one of the
hardest things everybody's working on in terms of how we
get triggered and all these things, right?
Yeah. And I think they just to some
degree, I mean, there has to be an awareness of where you're at
and where other people are AT and a recognition that it's not
wrong. You know, some people who have
(44:00):
their feelings and perspective and that's that's theirs, that
your feelings are real, your feelings are valid.
I think what I used to do is, and still do to some degree, you
know, like I'm learning, I'm a project in it of myself, but
approach things from less of a philosophical perspective and
(44:23):
more from a place of it's fellowNico's, the Greek basis, but
it's from a basis of defensiveness or justification,
you know, so if there's, if there's conflict in there or, or
looking for resolution, instead of saying, Oh, well, OK, you've,
(44:43):
you've got these feelings. Can you understand like where
they're coming from and why they're there?
I, I very much used to approach the subject.
Well, those feelings aren't necessarily valid because this
is the intent behind, you know, what the action was or this is
(45:04):
how I view things. And therefore, you know, you
should change how you're viewingthings.
And obviously that's, that's, that's a road to nowhere.
And I think, you know, part of my ignorance is, is thinking
that I'm right. I have this, this mentality of,
well, I come from a, a safe, secure background where nothing
(45:25):
has gone wrong. And, and therefore, you know, I
know how to look at the world with this positive, happy
outlook on life. Yeah, yeah, Lends itself to sort
of what I'm starting at this saying at the start it, it
doesn't recognise what other people have gone through in
life. It doesn't recognise, you know,
some of the the nurture elementsof people's perspectives.
(45:50):
And so there's almost a, a senseof battle that then comes of, of
trying to change someone's perspective to reflect my own.
And, and that's, that's not right.
It's not needed. Even if, even if sometimes
there's perspectives that say, well, have you tried looking at
(46:10):
it from this perspective? It's not, it's not helpful at
all situations. I think that's, it's definitely
been a learning lesson for, for me to recognise, OK, it doesn't
have to be a solution here, but to understand and to validate
whatever it is that someone's feeling or expressing or has
(46:31):
qualm with. So it's, it's perfectly fine to
to hear that and to recognise it.
You don't always have to align, but not being dismissive I think
is at least the key one. And just being considerate to to
someone else's lived experience because that's the truth.
Yeah. And I think I mean when when
you're coming from a place of not needing to be right all the
(46:54):
time, I think it's also a good place right.
When you to your point, you can be not dismissive and you can
sit there and more or less agreeto disagree to some extent, but.
Yeah, but also like, you know, like shining a light on yourself
and, and taking it as an opportunity to, to question some
of your, your thoughts and your basis of, of viewing things in
(47:16):
your perspective. Because sometimes I'm wrong, you
know, and, and recognising that and, and leaning into it, it's,
it's hard because I'm a, I'm a stubborn ass sometimes, but
it's, it's worth it to, to create growth opportunities.
It's a very mature mindset to doit like that, yeah.
(47:39):
It comes with experience, but but it is it's an opportunity to
sort of look at that and and youknow, say it's from this
perspective. Why do they look at things from
from their perspective? Neither of them is necessarily
wrong, but understand and accept.
Sometimes easier said than done,but it takes the weight out of
either person to be wrong. It just is an understanding.
(48:04):
Yeah, so finally though, what doyou long for most now when you
think about both a partner in love and in life?
I, I would say that I think a sense of, of, of peace is really
(48:27):
valuable to me, like an alignment in the majority of
core values with, with someone Ithink is what I, what I
recognise is what I'm looking for in a relationship.
And that can, you know, doesn't have to be on everything and
they don't have to be exactly the same, but it gives the
(48:49):
opportunity to, to, to grow withsomeone and seek a, a, a life
that you're both happy with thatthat works for you.
And, and obviously there's, there's other things like, like
the desire to have shared experiences and to be
adventurous and playful and yeah, into nature and all the
(49:14):
other bits and pieces. But I think all of that comes
through through awareness and you gain awareness through
communication. And so there needs to be a, an
ability to communicate and to talk through things that you're
feeling, your insecurities, your, your desires, your
boundaries, and to then respect those boundaries and to feel
(49:38):
like you're going to be respected than you as well.
That's beautiful, Andy. Thank you for opening up,
sharing your perspective with all of us.
And I know what it means to be aman who leads with presence,
honesty, and a really grounded heart.
I think your reflections on safety, sensuality, and
(50:00):
authentic connection will be inspiring a lot of people well.
Thanks, Henrik. And I think that the key take
away that I've, I've got for myself is, is we're all human
and we're all going to grow through this process.
But it's one that if you, if youlook at and you say, OK, I
recognise I'm a work in progress.
(50:21):
I recognise that there's opportunities for me to have
these experiences and to recognise what works and what
doesn't. Then you're, you're holding
space for yourself to then take on change and and to to develop
yourself into a more well-rounded, insightful human.
(50:43):
It takes time, you're going to make mistakes, but it's a
journey and and one that apparently is going to last me
too long. An old man walking around with
grey hair and no shirt on. And I think that 80 year old man
will still be there learning when he's there, right?
So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or he's or he's going to be a stubborn old man and tell
(51:05):
everyone to get off his lawn because he knows how the world
works and and that's just how it's going to be.
But we'll, we'll wait and find out.
Italian 46 years, look forward to that.
Been a pleasure, thank you. Thank you so much, Andy.
Thank you for listening to this conversation with Andy.
(51:26):
His reflections on presence, masculinity, and intimacy remind
us that real strength is not about performance, but about
vulnerability and staying true. And this journey continues.
In the next episode, I'll sit down with Aileen for a longer,
deeper dialogue with her, exploring love, sexuality, and
what it really means to choose yourself in a relationship.
(51:50):
Stay curious and stay present.
So welcome back to 34 O In this episode I'm joined by Andy.
Andy's, a man from New Zealand who's been living in London for
the past six years. Andy's a very grounded and with
a state of presence, but also a deep curiosity about love,
intimacy, and what makes relationships thrive and
(00:30):
sometimes fail. And today, we're going to
explore his personal journey, what he has learned along the
way, and what it means to connect in a way that's both
safe and deeply central. I'm really glad to have you here
on the show, Andy. Welcome.
Well, thank you very much, Henrik.
It's it's nice to be here first time on the podcast, but I'm
(00:53):
enjoying the opportunity to to have a talk about some of the
the life lessons and how I applythem on a day-to-day as much as
possible in in life and in love.That's.
Beautiful. I think you're very brave to
come on the show and and talk asopenly as you are, so I think
(01:14):
it's beautiful. So anything else you want to add
on your own background? You obviously come up from, You
grew up in New Zealand and you moved to Europe into the UK.
So how do you feel? Was that transition busy for
you? It was, it was an interesting
transition for me. You know, it's I, I used to
(01:36):
think that growing up in New Zealand was just an average
upbringing, largely because I just didn't have the, the
exposure to, to the rest of the world.
You know, I come from a, a loving family with a, a mum and
dad and a stable background. I've always had a, a loving hand
(01:59):
on my back saying that, you know, I'll be supported if I, if
I fail. And it's not necessarily
something I've leaned into or taken advantage of, but I think
it's given me a sense of self that has really benefited me in
my growth. I think I was, I was really made
(02:19):
aware of that when I first came over to the UK and explored and
got an opportunity to see how diverse and multicultural it is
and recognise just some of the extent of my privilege.
Because at the end of the day, there's so many people that are
(02:41):
raised and, and exist in, in, inworlds and societies, families
where they might not have a lot of love that's given to them and
they might have to, to struggle.Or, and what people in my
position have have looked at as,as a given, you know, things
(03:02):
like the security of a constant home as a, as a childhood.
I think things like loving support and and just just
knowing that you've got people that you can turn to if there is
an issue or if you're feeling hurt, there's people in your
corner that will stand behind you.
(03:23):
That must give you a lot of goodfoundation to stand on that that
makes you feel a lot safe. It does, it does and it's it's
also in and of itself a little bit risky.
And I've, I've learnt that because to some degree, as as
(03:45):
beautiful as it is, what it's then done is it's given me a, a
naivety or even an ignorance to the rest of the world up until
that point. And I'm still learning now, but
just meeting, meeting some people and being in the face of,
of some of their lived experiences and recognising I've
(04:09):
got no grounds on which to connect on this.
And, and just recognising that there's a difference in in life
that that shapes, that's beautiful.
So how would you describe your, if we put the lens here on sort
of love and intimacy, how do youfeel like your your journey has
(04:31):
been when it comes to love and intimacy?
I fall in love easily and I think I I fall in love easily
because I I haven't been hurt. I hadn't been hurt.
I think it's, it's given me a, you know, life in life in New
Zealand and a secure, safe upbringing has given me an idea
(04:55):
of what it is that I looked for in a relationship dynamic.
I look at my parents who are still together and love each
other. And yes, they might have had
years when they, when they mightnot have seen eye to eye on a
lot of things. At the end of the day, they're
invested in each other and they're working towards living
up a long and happy life. But I think with with life comes
(05:20):
experience and through, through what am I trying to say?
Through, through looking at the like an approach that I took to,
to the end, recognising negativity and holding space for
(05:41):
myself and for other people around me.
I think there's a, a limited tolerance and a limited window
of exposure that I allowed for myself and for other people
because I came from this, this background of, of happy, you
know, focus on the positives, live a live a good life and, and
(06:03):
be finding opportunities to, to enjoy yourself.
It kind of meant that I, I was quite unpracticed when it came
to being in a space where you might feel sad and actually
sitting with that and having patience with oneself to feel
the depth of those feelings. So that I guess until the last
(06:26):
maybe 18 months or so, when lifehappens, it's not really
something that I've had an opportunity to do.
As I said, I mentioned before, if you ask me some of these
questions 18 months ago, I probably would have given you a
world of different answers, you know?
I appreciate that. So have you ever felt like you
had to sort of perform a certainkind of masculinity?
(06:48):
And if So, what did that look like for you?
Yeah, I mean, I guess the question is what is masculinity
looks for me look like to me. I think I grew up in a house
with mum, dad and three boys andthere was a lot of lot of power
(07:09):
play dynamics. I was the eldest son, so I was
always testing what the boundaries were.
And my father's huge heart love him dearly.
So he's a huge character. He's a military man through and
through. He was quick good at separating
military and home. But there was a boundary of, you
know, it's his house, it's his, his rules.
(07:32):
And so that sort of imposed a little bit of the, the mindset
of, OK, this is a, a PowerPoint that potentially needs to be
pushed up against to understand what masculinity is.
And to be honest, I look, I lookat dad and I'm, I'm quite
admiring of him and, and his life and the things that he's
(07:55):
gone through. I think he exhibits A stoicism
that, yes, can give a hug and can spread love deeply, but it
doesn't represent itself as as oh, you're having a a feeling.
Let's let's discuss that with curiosity to understand why in
(08:16):
often cases that they throw in comedic comedic, you know, said
with love. But but things like eat a
concrete pill and harden up or build a bridge and get over it.
So it didn't necessarily masculinity presents itself as
something that gives an opportunity to sit with negative
(08:37):
emotions and to understand wherethey're coming from and why
those voices are, are making noise and, and speaking out as
they are. So that's not necessarily
something that I had the experience or, or know how to
exhibit through masculinity. I think then for me, that
presented itself as being relatively dismissive of not
(09:00):
only my my own, but of other people's hurt or sadness.
And, and yeah, I look back on itand I don't necessarily look
back on it with pride. I had a friend who was going
through some some deep, some deep issues, experiencing some
dark thoughts. And my response to that at the
time was don't think that let's let's go up, let's go bowling.
(09:22):
You know, we'll distract you with some, some positive stuff,
thinking that's a good thing to do, an actual fact.
In hindsight, what I recognise Idid was just dismiss my friend's
position and, and not really give it the gravity of, of where
he's at now. I mean, they're, they're still a
wonderful human, they're kickingaround and we've developed our
(09:45):
friendship to a much deeper degree.
But it was an insight into myself to say, OK, how I made
someone feel this way by doing what I thought was actually a
better, a better action, rather than sitting in the negativity
to actually go out and spend that time doing something happy.
I think that's, that's the, the fix it mindset of, you know, the
(10:09):
masculine world where I've come up from and you, you sort of
recognise your value by the solutions that you can provide.
And that's not often what's needed.
You know, sometimes through masculinity it's just a safe
place to be held and be listenedto because sometimes there's no
(10:32):
answer, there's no solution. People just need to be seen and
recognised through the presence of of you being there and
actually acknowledging what it is that they're going through.
I think it's beautiful you say that because what I see with a
lot of, and I've been talking toa lot of women here now on the
show, I think one thing they actually lack from the men is
really the thing that just sit there and listen and hear them.
(10:56):
And guys quite often just go in into that fix it mode.
As you said, right, that is justabout, hey, you have a problem,
let me fix it for you. So in one way it comes from a
nice place, but it sort of undermines the feelings of the
other person in that sense, right?
It does and and I think it's it's in some way, like I say,
representative of the world that, you know, a lot of young
(11:20):
men are brought up and it's you know, you what, what can you do?
What can you provide? Obviously the, the old school
traditional mindset of a man providing for a nuclear family
is no longer the world that we live in, but there's a lot of
traits that sort of carry on forover from that.
(11:40):
And a man's worth is what's his income, How strong a fighter is
he? What can he do to to protect his
his family and provide for them as opposed to to sit down and
and be soft and intimate and attentive?
Yeah. And I think that's that's an era
where I think today, particularly now with a lot of
(12:01):
women also being financially stable themselves, I think that
sort of need has sort of shiftedfrom what they look for in a man
as well, right? It's sort of shifting more
towards the emotional aspect that is needed when I think also
a lot of the guys sort of have ahard time actually opening up
and talking about feelings and emotions, right?
(12:23):
Yeah. And and I like to think it's
changing. You know, I'm, I'm mid, just
past my mid 30s now and, and I talk with, you know, young guys
in their early 20s or late teensas I, as I had the
opportunities. And they're quite happy to, to
pause and say, look, this is, this is my neuro diversity.
And these are the feelings that I'm having.
(12:45):
And, and these are some of the things that I'd like to talk or
be a little bit more involved ina conversation.
So I hope the world's changing in a, in a, in a way that
doesn't necessarily oversteer, but creates opportunities for
more of a a balanced between people.
I would agree on that too. And I think that's also what I
think this podcast is all about,actually helping to spread that
(13:08):
message around that by opening up and being more present, I
think we can be creating a change.
That is a good 'cause every every bit towards the cause say
thank you for the opportunity. No, I appreciate you being here.
So and you, you mentioned 18 months ago that it feels like
there was sort of a pivotal timefor you on your journey and is
(13:32):
that a moment where you think something shifted for you?
Yeah. I mean, is it 18 months?
What are we all this now? Something like that.
Not quite 18 months, but I was in AI, was in a long term
relationship which which ended and a few other sort of life
elements came in. It's given an opportunity.
(13:54):
It's the best way to look at it,to look at myself in perspective
and look at how I I approach my,my ability to hold space and to
be conscious, considerate for people around me.
(14:18):
Bit of self-awareness came through really, I think there,
there were a lot of areas as I sort of looked at that that I
could grow from as, as a youngerman and look at, you know, some
of the my actions that don't necessarily serve me.
(14:39):
And, you know, I did a little bit of inner child work and I
think at the end of the day, me and my inner child were, were
good, but I'm, I'm reckless and I'm reckless with myself and I
can be reckless with the people around me.
I'm just looking at that and theimpact of it.
You know, it's, it's an opportunity for growth.
(15:02):
A lot of people can live their life unchecked.
And certainly, you know, with mysafe, secure background and
having at the time when I came to the UK, which is where I'm at
now, already planning to be herefor a couple of years, I kind of
picked up this extended holiday mode with life.
So I wasn't, I wasn't investing in, in people or in a future
(15:23):
here. And sort of a passing mentality.
I think that allowed for, yeah, a dismissive mindset where it
didn't necessarily factor in therealities of other people with
all the depth to which they, they might sort of be impacted
by the waves of me passing through life.
(15:46):
As much as, you know, there are elements that I want to grow
from. There's there's a lot of love
for myself. And I think, you know, in, in,
in the quiet times, as I'm sitting there looking at myself,
I had an opportunity to look notto the inner child, but to
conceptual future version of me.I don't know why.
(16:08):
It wasn't intentional. It wasn't meditative, tried
meditating, not really big on it, but it was in a quiet moment
just with myself. And I imagined a future version
of me who was maybe in his late 80s, and I saw him quite clearly
in my mind and he was walking along a train track.
(16:30):
For some reason, he was topless tell that at some point he'd
gotten his life on track. He'd gotten healthy and somewhat
fit. He obviously had not worn enough
sunscreen because he was tanned and leathered.
But he he was good. You know, he'd lived a life.
And I think at that point in time, I was questioning myself
(16:52):
and questioning a lot of my values in the world and who I am
as a human. And I looked at him and I sort
of just nodded. And he looked at me, paused and,
and nodded. And whether or not you believe
in any of this or not, I don't even know if I do.
(17:13):
But what I took from it is this future version of me.
He's good with me. You know, he's lived my life up
to that point and he's lived a lot more since.
And he's OK. And so he has sort of become the
person that I'm now living for at the end of the day, you know,
he's, he's my truth. He's where I want to work
(17:34):
towards, to honour and myself honour the future version of me.
And yes, maybe grow from some ofthe more immature aspects of
life and, and mature into sort of a, a man that I have more or
love for and more respect for and, and can, can practise a lot
more of that that intimacy and, and emotional like presence,
(17:58):
which I think is incredibly valuable.
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks. So if it's necessarily balanced
or or true, but it's a, it's a nice concept to to envision.
Now with that though, I mean, you, you mentioned here before
about your upbringing, all thesethings about it feels like, you
(18:20):
know, emotionally you've been very safe.
So what does it really mean for you when you think about first
of all yourself, but also when you're with a partner, how would
you sort of elaborate on sort ofemotional safety?
Because it feels like you are a very grounded man, right?
Yeah. And in a lot of ways, I mean
there's always, there's always wobbles in life as you as you
(18:41):
exit your comfort zone and have new experiences that allow you
to look at yourself in perspective.
But I think through through a lot of growth.
I would say that for me, emotional safety for myself and
some others is it starts from like a listening, you know,
(19:04):
actually actually being there toto listen and to understand
where whatever voice it is that speaking is coming from.
You know, if there's something that you need to tell yourself,
something that someone else is telling you, putting putting
value into that, understanding where it's coming from and then
(19:29):
actually just honouring that andput in consideration into to how
your your thoughts and actions about yourself or with other
people can then impact that. And it's about, I think,
prioritising that safety, but that that can be things, you
(19:50):
know, as as simple as just holding space.
That's a beautiful thing way to do it when you for me, when you
start talking then about. Holding space and I think to to
even go there, I think you also need to think about
vulnerability and how do you feel like your relationship with
(20:10):
vulnerability? How has it looked like through
the years? Has it felt like easy,
terrifying, liberating, or all of the above?
I mean, to be honest, I, I, I, Iwear my heart on the sleeve.
And I would generally say the first thing that comes into my
(20:31):
mind for where I'm at. I don't think I've personally
had much, much, many, many barriers in terms of being
vulnerable myself. But in saying that, I think by
having been dismissive of some of the negative spaces that I
(20:52):
feel in the past that that in and of itself is there's an
avoidant mindset. And in doing so, I'm stepping
away from the ability to be vulnerable.
I think, you know, vulnerabilitynow, yes, is, is something that
you need to access to be able tohold space.
(21:12):
It's, it's something that I think is, is part of life as
much as enjoying the, the, the happy, the excitement, the last
fall. There's, there's value and
actually appreciating when you feel uncertain or nervous or
anxious. And you know, I think there's,
(21:37):
there's, there's a point where you sort of have to stop and
lean into yourself and, and listen, you know, there's a,
there's a boardroom of directorsinside yourself.
And if one of them's making a lot of noise, there's a reason
behind that. So you stop and you and you say,
OK, I'm going to give you time. I mean, I'm going to understand
where this voice is coming from and why is that vulnerability?
(22:00):
I think I don't know. I.
Think, yeah, I think it sounds like a better thing with yours.
So I sometimes think about like we all have like these part
personalities. And I like your analogy there
with the board of directors you have in the mind, right, so.
Yeah, it's, it's actually one that my brother told me a few
months ago as I was sort of working through some things in
life. And, and, you know, I had a lot
(22:20):
of, a lot of deep feelings in there.
And, and I really wasn't at thatpoint in my life equipped to,
to, to sit and hold space to myself and understand where
these feelings are coming from. But I do well with analogies and
obviously he does too. So he shared that with me and
it's that's when I've taken forward.
Yeah, I like it a lot. So it seems like, I mean, you
(22:42):
mentioned here that you were notequipped with all these tools.
So have you? Do you feel like there's been
situations where you wanted to be met emotionally but you
weren't and you do at that pointof time?
Yes. It's not necessarily that I
wanted to be emotional, but I couldn't.
It's that I didn't have the ability to understand why I was
(23:04):
emotional or, or what was the the key reasons behind it.
And I'm not one of those guys who translates it to, to anger
or to loudness. Never been one to punch a wall.
But definitely, like, there's this point to my life here.
(23:27):
I've I've felt deeply sad and I have whipped into a pillow.
You know, it's, it's not, it's not something that's ever held
me back. Yeah, it's definitely been in
space. But.
But what it would be is, is I would weep into a pillow and
then I would brush those tears away because at some point I
(23:51):
needed to harden up, build a bridge, get over it and, and
move on with life. And I think it's that that
forced stoicism, which I I do believe has a place in life to,
to stiff up a lip and get through what it is that you're
going through. But I think that needs to be A
(24:14):
to get through where you are right now so that you can then
feel those emotions in a safe container.
You know, the emotions should befelt sometimes through the
practicalities of life. You can't necessarily have a
breakdown in the moment. You know, you need to get back
to your bedroom and find a quietmoment and sit there and
reflect. And if that means you're going
to get deeply sad and feel the depth of those, then good.
(24:35):
I think that's the right thing to do because, you know, a lot
of ways we, we hold on and we, we compartmentalise because we
need to, to get through to, to, you know, finish the day of work
or whatever it happens to be so that people can't see us being
sad and emotional. But I'm, I'm sort of blessed
with a community at the moment that allows and encourages me
(24:56):
to, to be as emotional as I wantto be of, you know, like
there's, there's been points in my life where I have, I have
wept into the shoulders of, of friends and I've been held and,
you know, going back to what we said before, they haven't tried
to find a solution. They've just held me.
And and that in and of itself isis beautiful.
That helps a lot. So when we think about then
(25:19):
adding into this like masculinity, we talk about that
and then desire and shame and these type of things.
Have you ever experienced any tension between desire and
emotional connection? Let.
Me. Think about that for a second.
Tension between desire, emotional connection.
I mean, I don't know necessarilyabout tension between the two.
(25:45):
I think if you can operate them hand in hand, it's it's it's
incredibly beneficial not only for yourself, but it would be
you're experiencing your desire around.
Yeah, I think I have to think onthat one a little.
Bit that's OK, but have you everthen felt ashamed of your needs,
(26:06):
either emotionally, sexually or relationally?
Yeah, there's been times not I think emotionally or, or
sexually, but relationship wise,I think there's, there's been
points when I've looked at whereI'm at and some of the capacity
(26:30):
that I have to, to hold space for others and to, to turn up
and to be in an ongoing state of, of tolerance and, and the
limitations that it's then givenfor me to connect and be
available to someone. I've looked back on with some
(26:52):
elements of shame. I think that's through through
myself. And as we sort of thought
previously, there's that mindsetof moving to be a fixer like
through see other people talkingto me and me holding space for
them and, and trying to fix it. Yeah, trying to fix it again and
again. And eventually I get to a point
(27:15):
where my, my tolerance for that situation says, well, if I'm
offering a solution and the solution's not being taken,
what's the point in having a conversation further?
And and that's caused issues, that's, that's been, you know,
my, me getting fed up with a situation and then reacting or
(27:36):
limiting what can then occur or be discussed or, or felt because
I'm questioning them what my value is.
And you know what contribution Ican add if I've tried before and
it hasn't gone anywhere. That's certainly how I felt at
the time looking back on that. Yeah, there's a bit of shame
(27:57):
because I think with, with with hindsight, you obviously
recognise that it's not necessarily being in a position
where you need to fix something,but it's just hold space, be
considerate, recognise where someone's at and their
experience in their life and just be there.
(28:17):
So I think that was maybe maybe it is a little bit tied into the
emotional, you know, that I feltquite, quite drained and put
these these boundaries up in life, which then translated to
me not having an ability to to be attentive or listening to
(28:37):
someone else, which can completely understand how it
then reads like that. It, it obviously wasn't for the,
for the betterment or support ofpeople in my life who, who
needed it at that time. So it was a yeah, it was a bit
of shame tied in with that. Yeah.
But it's also, it also comes with growth.
And that's part of what I've been on the journey of over the
(29:01):
last 1218 months on is looking at that and staying what comes
as a result of, of putting theseboundaries up or not being able
to communicate where I'm at clearly enough in in the time
that I need to ahead of it getting to that point, not that
it became explosive, but it justbecame distant.
(29:25):
Yeah, and that's another type ofreaction you can get when you
when you trigger them away. Yeah, well, you sort of start to
close yourself off a little. Bit as well.
So in your view though, if we ifwe think about intimacy as a
another topic there, what do youthink men today most need to
unlearn when it comes to intimacy or what behaviours men
(29:49):
need to sort of deprogram? I think, I think the, the key
one is the, the dissociation of,of intimacy and sex.
Like I think I can only speak for some of the people that I
(30:12):
know, but there's a, there's a connection that exists in their
minds that says, OK, if I'm going to be intimate with
someone, we need to be naked. And that's, that's not the case.
You know, there's, there's so many ways to be intimate with
someone through bringing your, you know, your, your sense of
(30:35):
being, your presence into another person's space.
And, and just being that intimacy can be something as
simple as, as working together on a, on a combined task can be
(30:55):
a, a father and a son playing catch or something.
There's, there's hot fishing levels of intimacy.
And it doesn't have to be physical to achieve that.
It's, it's, it's two people bothbeing present in the moment of,
of what they're sharing. And that that can be a myriad of
(31:18):
things, I think. Yeah.
And I think I love what you're saying there because I think a
lot of the guys I've been talking to as well, they're,
they're very sort of performative looking for
performing, particularly when they think what intimacy is
about performance. And for me, I think it's much
more about actually sitting down.
And to your point, intimacy can be so many other things than
(31:39):
just being naked. Absolutely.
Yeah. It's it's, there's almost more
things than being naked than it can be.
I mean, being naked is definitely a part of intimacy,
right? But it's not the only part of
intimacy. Oh absolutely, And, and and
being intimate and naked is a fantastic thing as well of.
(32:00):
Course it is, but it's not beautiful.
Beautiful ways to experience that and to to share that with
young people. Yeah.
And I think for me, I think when, when guys can go into the
physical intimacy, when you're naked and not thinking but
performing themselves, but actually being present in that
moment, that's when you can create beauty together with your
partner in one way, right? Yeah, absolutely.
(32:24):
I, I've had moments when I'm physically with other people and
I'm, I'm not present. I've had moments where I'm, you
know, in the reverse role and I'm with someone and I know
they're not present. And it completely, completely
changes the dynamic. It almost makes it hollow to
(32:49):
some degree. I think I've I've walked away
from some experiences thinking, gosh, that that really wasn't
fulfilling at all. Yeah, you must feel more empty
afterwards, right? Yeah, I mean, don't get me
wrong, I've, I've, I've sometimes gone into environments
knowing I'm not going to be present and, and, you know,
(33:13):
incredibly intimate and it's, it's just a, a party of people
connecting and having experiences.
Yeah, that's fine. I don't think there's a
requirement on every interactionto be intimate or, or entirely
present. But I think if, if you're, if
you're not, if if you're, if your mind's elsewhere, someone
(33:35):
else's mind is, is there, you know, seeking you that can then
leave them hollow. I think it's really good to sort
of have a conversation up quite like a conversation.
But if you recognise that shepherd at the time, but one of
them, you know, is a discussion point around meaning and you
(33:56):
know, understanding before any sort of active intimacy.
Where are you both at? Like what's what's the meaning
going into this? Is it is it something that
actually you haven't been intimate with someone for quite
a long time? And therefore this is a little
bit scary and a little bit nervewracking.
And can we, can we put some attention into, into where we're
(34:19):
at? I think it's it's beautiful to
establish that with people. I do agree on that.
And I think a lot for what I've also seen is a lot of people
think it's, well, I think it's more about actually it's easier
to give your body than your heart, right, In other ways.
Yeah, yeah. You can control your body.
(34:41):
You cannot control your mind andyour emotions in the same way.
That is, that is true is. It's definitely a limitation
there, but maybe a lot of it comes with practise and.
True, true that it's an additional way to look at it.
I think, I think conscious touchfor the, for the inner hippie
(35:03):
inside me is a really good way to sort of bring attention to
the body and to where you're at,not only in yourself and, and
how you're connecting with someone, but how they're then
receiving your, your connection in your presence.
And, and how, how they give you feedback.
(35:25):
Because, you know, you can then take that and, and understand
immediately whether or not they're they're with you or
they're, you know, elsewhere. I like that.
So you, you mentioned it before about, you know, some of the
growth you've done healing in the work with within a child.
So are these type of practises or experiences that really help
(35:46):
you grow in your relationship toyourself because you feel like
you've you've done your, your journey or you're on the
journey, but also then in relation to others, if you will,
are there any other things? You worked on on the journey?
Definitely on the journey. I think I've spent it's been a
good, good a few years saying that, you know, my, my journey
(36:08):
is done and I actually don't need to develop, which looking
back on gosh, there's, there's so much to develop.
I think I'm always going to be developing now shifting mindset.
I think, you know, the, the the journey that I've been on has
allowed me to be a lot more present in myself and and slow
(36:30):
down. I think you mentioned slow down
earlier, take and expectation away from myself or any
interaction and just be be present and appreciating each of
the small moments. And if that's, you know, simply
sitting there reading a book or doing a board game, you know,
(36:53):
there's there's power in being present with that.
And whatever you happen to be doing at a given point in your
time is where your attention is going.
And I think, you know, people say, you know, money makes the
world work. Yes, it does.
But but money can't buy time. And so time therefore becomes
(37:18):
one of the most valuable resources.
And you spend time through your attention.
That's it's what you're giving your attention to.
That then becomes what is valuable in life.
And that's, well, that's when you're present in that case,
right? As you say, or like when you're
when you're truly present, it takes time to be there.
(37:41):
Yeah, yeah. And so the concept of, you know,
is it, is it a waste of time? Well, if you're if you're being
present and you're consciously doing whatever task it happens
to be, then you're not wasting time because you're you're
spending it either on yourself or with other people or, or in
that moment, that's your intimacy with whatever it
happens to be in front of you. So do you feel there are parts
(38:04):
of yourself that you've only recently started to accept or
reclaim? Well, I think, I think future
Andy is a concept that for me has in the past served me very
well. I'm doing a lot of work for my
development, for my growth, for my studies and, and career.
(38:27):
And I think as I mentioned, I came to the UK with a bit of a
holiday mindset and very quicklyfive years slipped by and I
recognised well in this time, yes, I've had a lot of
experiences, but actual self investment and looking at future
Andy has not been a priority forme because there's been other
(38:51):
things that I've been focused on.
And yes, that must have been nice, but, and actually, I'd
actually lost a sense of direction to some of this growth
as well for this, for this old version of me who's got
leathered skin. There's, there's a life to to
(39:11):
live and to work towards. And it's, it's incredibly
valuable to have a sense of purpose, even if you don't know
what that is, other than living for yourself.
So in terms of reclaiming something that's that's
definitely there in terms of, you know, fixing anything that's
that's broken or, you know, parts of my childhood or a child
(39:34):
that that hasn't, hasn't, you know, developed or been OK with
myself. I honestly think he's good.
Like, like I, I feel comfortablein myself and, and the growth
that's in front of me is something I look forward to.
That was. Beautiful, beautiful way to look
(39:55):
at it. So you're, you're going in to
the future with an open heart, basically.
Open open heart, open mind. Yeah, I don't know what you know
my life is going to look like infive years, but but I know I'm
going to walk towards it with with eagerness.
(40:16):
Which is beautiful. So what has been one of your
hardest lessons when it comes tolove or being loved?
I don't think I've I've got any issue being loved.
I certainly feel worthy of love hasn't been things in my life
(40:36):
which have stopped me from from feeling that maybe a bit of a
hiccup along the way, but checking in with yourself, I
feel that that's not not an issue for me in terms of the way
I love. I mean, I think it just needs to
be with, with consideration and prioritisation of whoever
(41:04):
happens to be in my life to, to validate where they're at and
what they're going through. And, and looking at the, the
shared value system that we haveand, and giving the gravitas of
that to, to honour with not onlymy own, but other people's
(41:25):
perspectives and, and views on the world.
It's it's not just something to take for granted, I think.
That's beautiful. So if you think about then like
you mentioned, your future self,like the future that it's been
serving you really well. But if if you add in then
relationships in that, what do you feel you're learning about
(41:46):
building something lasting that is not just passionate, but also
something that you will. Build in the future.
Yeah. So, so that's another thing that
I've, I've sort of been doing a bit of reading on and and
podcasts and it resonates with me.
There's, there's a big difference between lost and
passion and a sense of security and home.
(42:11):
And I think lost, lost and passion can can come, you know,
in many forms, through many people and relationships, sense
of security and calmness. You know, that that's incredibly
valuable to to have a sense of peace only in the home, but in
one itself. And I think that comes from an
(42:33):
alignment in values and goals and how you view the world.
If, if two people misaligned andhow they view the world or where
they're putting their priorities, there's going to be
there's going to be conflict, a clash in someone having to be in
a state of tolerance or or someone not feeling seen because
(42:57):
what for them might be quite meaningful is actually just
another Tuesday for for someone else.
Yeah, it's beautiful when you say that and say it like that.
I mean, I, I see for me, I always think about like
emotional, intellectual and sexual attraction when it comes
to these things or connection. And if you don't and then you
(43:17):
have obviously have the core values being a key part of that,
right? When you, when you look into
that and that obviously can create conflict as you say.
So on that by the way, how do you navigate conflict repair or
even distance in relationships today?
Still still learning. Still learning?
(43:39):
It's not an easy one because that's probably one of the
hardest things everybody's working on in terms of how we
get triggered and all these things, right?
Yeah. And I think they just to some
degree, I mean, there has to be an awareness of where you're at
and where other people are AT and a recognition that it's not
wrong. You know, some people who have
(44:00):
their feelings and perspective and that's that's theirs, that
your feelings are real, your feelings are valid.
I think what I used to do is, and still do to some degree, you
know, like I'm learning, I'm a project in it of myself, but
approach things from less of a philosophical perspective and
(44:23):
more from a place of it's fellowNico's, the Greek basis, but
it's from a basis of defensiveness or justification,
you know, so if there's, if there's conflict in there or, or
looking for resolution, instead of saying, Oh, well, OK, you've,
(44:43):
you've got these feelings. Can you understand like where
they're coming from and why they're there?
I, I very much used to approach the subject.
Well, those feelings aren't necessarily valid because this
is the intent behind, you know, what the action was or this is
(45:04):
how I view things. And therefore, you know, you
should change how you're viewingthings.
And obviously that's, that's, that's a road to nowhere.
And I think, you know, part of my ignorance is, is thinking
that I'm right. I have this, this mentality of,
well, I come from a, a safe, secure background where nothing
(45:25):
has gone wrong. And, and therefore, you know, I
know how to look at the world with this positive, happy
outlook on life. Yeah, yeah, Lends itself to sort
of what I'm starting at this saying at the start it, it
doesn't recognise what other people have gone through in
life. It doesn't recognise, you know,
some of the the nurture elementsof people's perspectives.
(45:50):
And so there's almost a, a senseof battle that then comes of, of
trying to change someone's perspective to reflect my own.
And, and that's, that's not right.
It's not needed. Even if, even if sometimes
there's perspectives that say, well, have you tried looking at
(46:10):
it from this perspective? It's not, it's not helpful at
all situations. I think that's, it's definitely
been a learning lesson for, for me to recognise, OK, it doesn't
have to be a solution here, but to understand and to validate
whatever it is that someone's feeling or expressing or has
(46:31):
qualm with. So it's, it's perfectly fine to
to hear that and to recognise it.
You don't always have to align, but not being dismissive I think
is at least the key one. And just being considerate to to
someone else's lived experience because that's the truth.
Yeah. And I think I mean when when
you're coming from a place of not needing to be right all the
(46:54):
time, I think it's also a good place right.
When you to your point, you can be not dismissive and you can
sit there and more or less agreeto disagree to some extent, but.
Yeah, but also like, you know, like shining a light on yourself
and, and taking it as an opportunity to, to question some
of your, your thoughts and your basis of, of viewing things in
(47:16):
your perspective. Because sometimes I'm wrong, you
know, and, and recognising that and, and leaning into it, it's,
it's hard because I'm a, I'm a stubborn ass sometimes, but
it's, it's worth it to, to create growth opportunities.
It's a very mature mindset to doit like that, yeah.
(47:39):
It comes with experience, but but it is it's an opportunity to
sort of look at that and and youknow, say it's from this
perspective. Why do they look at things from
from their perspective? Neither of them is necessarily
wrong, but understand and accept.
Sometimes easier said than done,but it takes the weight out of
either person to be wrong. It just is an understanding.
(48:04):
Yeah, so finally though, what doyou long for most now when you
think about both a partner in love and in life?
I, I would say that I think a sense of, of, of peace is really
(48:27):
valuable to me, like an alignment in the majority of
core values with, with someone Ithink is what I, what I
recognise is what I'm looking for in a relationship.
And that can, you know, doesn't have to be on everything and
they don't have to be exactly the same, but it gives the
(48:49):
opportunity to, to, to grow withsomeone and seek a, a, a life
that you're both happy with thatthat works for you.
And, and obviously there's, there's other things like, like
the desire to have shared experiences and to be
adventurous and playful and yeah, into nature and all the
(49:14):
other bits and pieces. But I think all of that comes
through through awareness and you gain awareness through
communication. And so there needs to be a, an
ability to communicate and to talk through things that you're
feeling, your insecurities, your, your desires, your
boundaries, and to then respect those boundaries and to feel
(49:38):
like you're going to be respected than you as well.
That's beautiful, Andy. Thank you for opening up,
sharing your perspective with all of us.
And I know what it means to be aman who leads with presence,
honesty, and a really grounded heart.
I think your reflections on safety, sensuality, and
(50:00):
authentic connection will be inspiring a lot of people well.
Thanks, Henrik. And I think that the key take
away that I've, I've got for myself is, is we're all human
and we're all going to grow through this process.
But it's one that if you, if youlook at and you say, OK, I
recognise I'm a work in progress.
(50:21):
I recognise that there's opportunities for me to have
these experiences and to recognise what works and what
doesn't. Then you're, you're holding
space for yourself to then take on change and and to to develop
yourself into a more well-rounded, insightful human.
(50:43):
It takes time, you're going to make mistakes, but it's a
journey and and one that apparently is going to last me
too long. An old man walking around with
grey hair and no shirt on. And I think that 80 year old man
will still be there learning when he's there, right?
So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or he's or he's going to be a stubborn old man and tell
(51:05):
everyone to get off his lawn because he knows how the world
works and and that's just how it's going to be.
But we'll, we'll wait and find out.
Italian 46 years, look forward to that.
Been a pleasure, thank you. Thank you so much, Andy.
Thank you for listening to this conversation with Andy.
(51:26):
His reflections on presence, masculinity, and intimacy remind
us that real strength is not about performance, but about
vulnerability and staying true. And this journey continues.
In the next episode, I'll sit down with Aileen for a longer,
deeper dialogue with her, exploring love, sexuality, and
what it really means to choose yourself in a relationship.
(51:50):
Stay curious and stay present.
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