Episode 19: Step Series, Steps 1 & 2: Embracing Powerlessness & Finding Freedom

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Struggling with addiction or anxiety can feel like fighting a losing battle, but what if surrendering control could be your key to freedom? On this episode of "Addiction to Purpose," we embark on a transformative exploration of the 12-step recovery program, beginning with the foundational steps one and two. We unpack the power of admitting powerlessness and the serenity that follows, sharing personal stories of how these realizations have laid the groundwork for self-love and personal transformation. Our experiences reflect the universal applicability of the 12-step model, shedding light on its relevance across various behaviors and thought patterns. Challenges and relapses are part of the ongoing struggle for sobriety, but there's transformative strength in rigorous honesty and spiritual support. We emphasize the relief and liberation that comes from relinquishing control and setting healthy boundaries, which ultimately leads to peace and balance in our lives.

 

• Discussion on the prevalence of the 12-step model
 • Personal stories highlighting moments of realizing powerlessness and hopelessness
 • The significance of self-love and community support in recovery
 • Sharing of spiritual experiences and the role of higher power
 • Emphasis on therapy as an essential aspect of the healing process
 • Acknowledgment of the reality of unmanageability in addiction
 • Encouragement towards progress over perfection in recovery efforts

 

LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/addiction2purpose

 

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Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/addiction-to-purpose-with-riches-in-recovery/id1757554297

 

YouTube: www.youtube.com/@A2PDiscussion

 

#addiction2purpose #richesinrecovery #addictionrecoverypodcast #recoveryispossible #addictionrecovery #recovery #progressnotperfection #onedayatatime

Episode Transcript

Rich G (00:00):
Addiction to Purpose with Riches and Recovery
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(00:24):
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Finally, if you are a heavydaily user of alcohol or drugs
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professional for assistance.
Welcome to the conversation tothe conversation.

(00:50):
Hi, welcome to another episodeof Addiction to Purpose.
We are happy to be with youtoday, and today we're going to
be talking about the 12 steps.
Generally, the 12 steps, youknow, regardless of the specific
program you're working, are the12 steps, so it's pretty easy
to talk about them withouthaving to go into a program, and
they have really been assignedto just about any behavior or
thought pattern that can beconsidered addictive or cyclical

(01:11):
.
So, you know, you just kind ofreplace whatever word or
substance that you're throwingout there and you've got your
version of the 12 steps.
In 2020, the Substance Abuseand Mental Health Services
Administration, an organizationin the United States, stated

(01:34):
that the 12-step models areutilized by approximately 65% of
treatment centers nationwide,so it's a very widely used still
the most dominant kind of roadto recovery that is out there.
It's something that the threeof us have all participated in.
So, if you've watched the showbefore, we're definitely strong
believers in whatever works foryou is the best thing that you
can do, right?

(01:55):
Yeah, there's a lot of stuffout there.
There's a lot of stuff, andwhether you find a religious
path, a 10-step program,whatever works for you works for
you and we support it.
But you know, I also think thatthere is.
If you've never done a 12-stepprogram, or even if you have,
maybe there's questions about it, maybe there's some mystery

(02:16):
about it, and maybe listening towhat some of our own
experiences are and some of oursuggestions, maybe around how we
work the steps, might be ofassistance to you.
Um, it's worked for us, so far.

Rich V (02:31):
So far.
That and other things righttoday.
It's worked so far right, youknow it's.

Rich G (02:36):
Uh, you know, I feel like my program is 12 steps plus
right, like I feel like thereare other things that absolutely
, yeah, that contribute to mysobriety and actually to my way
of life, is what I'll say.

Rich V (02:47):
Oh, yeah, and my life is way different.
Yeah, completely different.
And that's what it is.
These twelve steps, you know,I've completely changed my life.

Abbie G (02:58):
I've learned how to live a much better life yeah
through going through thesesteps well, it really teaches
you a different way of life.
That's really what it does.

Rich V (03:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, basically, I mean to me,you know I don't know how far
we're going to get into it todayand all that sort of stuff, but
what the steps mean to me is itteaches you, taught me how to
love myself, sure, where Ididn't know how to.
And when you don't loveyourself, then you don't know
how to do a lot of stuff in life.

(03:25):
Yeah, you know, there's a lotof stuff in life.
You just I just don't know howto do, didn't know how to do
because I didn't love myself.

Rich G (03:30):
Yeah, and that's kind of basic to a lot of things in
life that you do so, yeah, well,today we're just talking about
step one, step two, so this isthe part of the steps where I
certainly did not love myself.
Yeah.

Rich V (03:45):
But you know what, though, it is a really good it's
a good groundwork to lovingyourself, though For sure it
really helps open you up to thatpossibility.
Right, there is steps one andtwo.

Rich G (03:59):
Every step plays its part.
That's why you can't skip one,like I did early on, and it did
not work out.

Rich V (04:04):
But the cool thing is, you get to come back to them.
You have to come back to themdaily and so, yeah, so, step one
and two.
There's such a great backgroundto get back to it all the time
and teach you a lesson every day.

Rich G (04:19):
Absolutely.
So with that we are going to doa series right Like this is
just going to be step one.
Step two, because we certainlydecided that running through 12
steps in an hour is not reallypossible Well, it's possible,
but you know not to do athorough job with it as we'd
like to do and then with that wemay have some other episodes

(04:39):
pop up that we want to do orsome guests, so it might get
interrupted, but we will, by theend of the series, take you all
the way through step 12.
So, with that introduction outof the way, we just want to
introduce ourselves, and ofcourse we have my man here, rich
V.

Abbie G (04:57):
And Abby.

Rich G (04:58):
And I'm Rich G and yeah, we're Addiction to Purpose with
Riches in Recovery and Abby andAbby.

Rich V (05:06):
And Abby.

Rich G (05:09):
So, as usual, we like to kind of kick things off by
talking about something thatwe're grateful for.
So who wants to start off?

Rich V (05:14):
I'll start it off.
Today I'm having a rough kindof day with my disease in my arm
, and so it got me reflectingthat the the love that's in my
life that gets me through mydifficult days.
This is one of those days whereI'm having a rough day and, um,
uh, just found a little love.
You know, coming over here andgetting a big hug from the big

(05:38):
guy and stuff and and the lovein this room just boom, made me
feel a lot better gettingthrough my day.
So, yeah, again always talkingabout love, but made me feel
better.
It helped me get through theday.
There goes my higher power.
So, yeah, that's what I'mgrateful for today.

Abbie G (05:57):
Nice, love it Nice.

Rich G (05:59):
I jumped into now my second semester of school and I
love learning, jumped into mysecond semester of school and I
love learning and it's, you know, back to a rigorous amount of
reading and writing, but I'mhappy to be at it and, you know,
learning, learning a lot tocontinue along my road, to have
purpose.

Rich V (06:20):
Right, so it's perfect.
That's paying off.
You're learning a lot.

Abbie G (06:23):
Yeah, I am grateful for spiritual experiences.
Um, I have been on a spiritualhigh lately.
It's been amazing, and my tworesponses have had some
spiritual experiences lately too, and it's just, it's been
unreal, it's been super awesome.
So I just um, I hope it keepsgoing.
I love it, I think it's great.

Rich V (06:42):
So, man, I want you to share that with me.
Later on we can do it I lovethat stuff.

Abbie G (06:49):
Yeah, I can tell you after the the God shots and
stuff that you do.

Rich V (06:51):
Oh, yeah, it's pretty cool and you start opening up
and everything like that, andyou get a chance to really open
up to your higher power and allof a sudden you feel it, you
know, ah, it's great, you know.
And the steps one and two,that's the base to it all.
You know, that's the base to itall.
And then once your life, really, you know, you get to live with
serenity and just get out ofGod's way and let God do the

(07:16):
work.

Abbie G (07:17):
It's beautiful.
I was talking to my sponsor andwe were joking because I said
it's like I have.
I don't have peace every momentof my life, of course, but I
have this.
I said it's like I have.
I don't have peace every momentof my life, of course, but I
have this.
I do have some serenity now,which is really strange for me.
It feels weird Like it'sforeign.
It's really foreign.
And I we were joking because Iwas like, um, like where did I

(07:37):
leave my anxiety?
Like I left it somewhere.
You know what I mean.
Like I left it somewhere.
It's not I don't have it, youknow and it's so.
I it's just a really foreignconcept for me and very foreign
feeling for me.
You know, it's not that I don'thave anxiety ever, but like I
had anxiety every minute of mylife.
And now, like I'm sitting here,I'm not thinking about anything
, you know, worrying aboutanything right now.
It's very, very foreign andweird, but I love it, it's great

(08:01):
.
It's, um, not something I everthought would happen.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, so it's pretty cool, thesteps work guys.

Rich G (08:08):
So yeah, yeah All right, I'll read off that first step.
Yeah, so step one um, weadmitted we were powerless and
that our lives had becomeunmanageable, and that's you
know I, you know, I think that'syou hit your bottom and or you
know, whatever your bottom isright Bottoms customized to

(08:32):
whoever hits it, and you know sosomething that I think is often
asked of the newcomer thatshows up and is looking for a
solution is what did it mean tofeel powerless?

Rich V (08:44):
Yeah, I'll answer first.
Yeah, all right.
Powerless man?
Yeah, I'll answer first.
Yeah, all right.
Powerless man.
Powerless is, you know.
People describe it in much butway different ways, you know,
and it means different things tothem.
Do it all right.
Um, I um, it was this feelinginside, and I'm talking
powerless um, a lot of times.
That means, you know, when youhit rock bottom and, uh, I knew

(09:05):
I was powerless when I was inHawaii.
I've told this story severaltimes, but I was in Hawaii, my
favorite place in the world, andI was not having fun, didn't
want to be there, didn't enjoyanything.
I was doing.
I just all I could do is thinkabout getting my next drink.

(09:26):
All I wanted to do was feed thatdeath that was growing inside
me.
I mean, I felt like I was dyinginside and you know, there was
no part of me that I could doother than drinking alcohol that
would bring me pleasure, and soit was a death inside of me.
It just felt like my soul, myhappiness, my love that was

(09:49):
inside of me was dead and that'syou know.
That's when I really knew I wasout of control, is when I just
didn't have any love to giveanymore, when that was gone,
when I just couldn't, could notgive any love anymore Because I
mean I'm all about love and justcouldn't get it out anymore.
Yep, yep, it was gone, it'sempty.

Rich G (10:11):
Yeah, really with that.

Abbie G (10:12):
Yeah, absolutely.

Rich G (10:13):
No, you said that we were talking a little bit before
the show and Abby's like that'sdark.

Abbie G (10:17):
Yeah, it's a yeah, it's .
I always describe it as I feltlike I was drowning, like I was,
like the water was all the wayup, like I was, my eyeballs were
the only thing out of the water, like I couldn't breathe and I
mean even like in a See.
It even makes me like weirdright now.

(10:39):
But I just feel I just feltlike I couldn't get out of where
I was.
I Didn't know how to get out.
I didn't even know how I got inthere and I didn't see any
options on how to get out.
I don't know, I felt supertrapped and I even like I would

(11:00):
be.
I was working from home at thetime, because it was during
COVID and I would sit at work atmy desk.
It was like right over here andI just was like tearing my hair
out, not literally, but likealmost and there was nothing
around me.
But I felt like I was, like youknow, high on something because

(11:23):
I was just like I couldn'thandle being anywhere at any
time with anything Like I feltlike I couldn't handle my own
skin.
I couldn't handle anyonetalking to me or touching Like
it was, like I just could nothandle being alive.
It was just like it was souncomfortable for me and I just
couldn't figure out how to getout of it.
And numerous, numerous times Ijust cried out and I was like I

(11:47):
can't do this anymore.
I just can't do it.
How did I don't know what to doand I need help and to God, and
somehow it worked out and Ican't really even tell you what
happened.
I mean, I know what happened,but like I can't tell you what
the key things were that clickedin place to happen.
You know what I mean?
Sure, so yeah, it was I.

(12:08):
Just same thing.
I felt empty.
I felt like I was.
There was nothing left of me.
There it was.
I was like a shell of my personand the only thing left was
like this prickly outer shell.
You know that didn't wantanyone to touch it or do
anything like don't talk to,don't touch me, don't give me
anything, any love or anything.
I will literally just sting youlike a bee or what I don't know

(12:30):
.
It's a weird you know thing wayto describe it.
But yeah, it just was like not,not good, it was not me yeah
yeah.

Rich G (12:41):
I think, uh, well, first off, like when you first
started to talk, I think, justbecause of how close we are
today, like like I had thisimmediate, like tightness come
over my chest and anxiety.

Tangent from Rich V (12:50):
Yeah.

Rich G (12:50):
Like there was this miserable reaction for me, same,
that was kind of interesting itwas.
You know, both the physical andthe mental.
I don't know like torture islike nearly the right word.

(13:11):
Right, like you know.
You know that you know thedrink or the substance that
you're going to reach for ishurting you.
Right, like you know it'shurting you, you know it's
killing you, you know that isrobbing you of your life, but
your body is aching to the corebecause it needs it.

(13:33):
Yeah, and your mind is tellingyou that the only thing that's
going to give you relief fromyour thoughts and is going to
make your body feel better isthat substance.
And so you're.
You've hit this point whereyou're like you're using it, but

(13:54):
it's not like it's beyond yourwill.
Right, like, like it's, it'sgone beyond that.
Right, like it's not.
You're not using it within yourwill.
You're using it because youhave to, and you believe that.
And your worst enemy, bestfriend, worst enemy, you've come
to believe that if you don'tuse that substance, that you

(14:17):
can't, that you can't make aphone call, that you can't go to
sleep, that you can't eat, thatyou can't feel love, that you
can't do anything I couldn can'teat that, you can't feel love
that you can't do anything rightbecause my

Abbie G (14:28):
hand was sick.
Yeah, I couldn't eat unless Idrank first, because my stomach
would be upset.
I couldn't, yeah yeah, I meanyou were there the last time I
took the rehab I couldn't sign adamn thing I couldn't drink it,
I just had fun with it

Tangent from Rich V (14:43):
it.

Rich G (14:43):
But yeah, I mean that, that remembering that
powerlessness, um, that level ofpowerlessness not, not just
like, just in the fact that Icouldn't make the decision not
to drink, right Like my body andmy mind wouldn't let me do it
because I needed it so bad.
That was my powerlessness, thatwas I hate to think about it, I

(15:05):
know.

Rich V (15:08):
And I was so tired of lying.
I was so tired of lying topeople making excuses for why my
eyes were red or why am I latetoday and why I didn't get this
work done, or why this wasn'tdone.
And one lie after another afteranother piled on top of another

(15:34):
, and I just didn't have anotherone left in me too.
I just didn't have another lieleft in me.
Everything was piled up andeverything was just about to
tumble down.
I just couldn't do it anymore.
House of cards, yeah yeah I just, whatever you want to call it,
it's just all gonna fall downand I just I couldn't do it

(15:55):
anymore.
It just yeah the stress andyeah the death, just gone well
then, how many times can you besick for me?

Abbie G (16:05):
you know what I mean.
And then they start to getsuspicious about how sick you
are, how often yeah, I stillactually made it to work.

Rich V (16:15):
I never called out sick because I was hungover.
Nah, I did.
I just came in so hungover.
Well, at the end I came indrunk.
So yeah, that just got methrough the day.
Yeah, yeah, so Well, at the endI came in drunk.
So yeah, that just got methrough the day.

Rich G (16:26):
Yeah, yeah, so kind of like a little bit further along,
when you maybe started torealize the lack of control, was
it difficult to kind of atwo-part question right?
Was it difficult to admit youwere powerless to yourself and
was it difficult to admit thatto other people?

Rich V (16:51):
You know it was easy to well, not easy, but I mean it
was easy, difficult, it was easyto admit it to others and it
was easy to admit.
Well, I mean it wasn't easy butI could tell others easier than
I could tell myself completely.
I mean, you know, tellingothers and telling myself, you

(17:13):
know it wasn't that bad becauseI was, you know, I was a wreck,
like I was saying, you know, soI could tell myself, I could
tell others so forth.
I was ready just to do that.
You know, I just needed to getit out and all that stuff
getting out open.
You know I wanted to go torehab and I wanted to do all
that stuff.
You know, but to actually admitit to myself all the way,
completely, that took a while.

(17:36):
You know that, to completelygive in, that took a while.
Yeah, yeah, it was verydifficult.

Rich G (17:44):
I think I kind of felt the same thing and I think I
mean, you know, I've told youthis before right, like the
salesman in me would come outright.
So to other people I could sellthem what they wanted to hear,
right, and if you wanted to hearthat I was powerless, I could
sell that to you, and to a largeextent I could sell that to

(18:04):
myself, right, and so I couldeven get to the place where I
believed that I thought that Iwas powerless, right, and I
could coast on that for a while,and so I thought it was
difficult, but I was in such apoint of desperation that I did
it, you know.

Abbie G (18:27):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a weird question for me,because I think I genuinely
believed at the beginning that Iwas piggybacking on your
addiction.
And I didn't necessarily havemy own addiction, because I
would just shot for shot withyou.
You and I always went to thebar together.
Then I was like, oh, I'm caughtin your addiction and I'm the

(18:48):
victim.

Tangent from Rich V (18:49):
Yeah.

Abbie G (18:50):
And then you know because then, when you went to
rehab, I stopped drinking.

Tangent from Rich V (18:55):
Yeah.

Abbie G (18:55):
You know.
So I'm good.
You know in my head, you knowso.
Then you came out of rehab andI went to meetings with you to
support you, right, you knowwhat I mean.
Out of rehab and I went tomeetings with you to support you
, right, you know what I mean.
So I it was weird because Idon't think and then I, I
relapsed two major times and, um, I think it just took me those

(19:20):
times to really realize that itwasn't you, it was me.
I had my own addiction.
You know what I mean, like realaddiction, not like I was like,
oh yeah, I might be addicted,maybe a little like I have you
know alcoholic light, you knowright you know what I mean.
But, um, I think it just took me, I think it took me a long time
to admit to myself that Ireally was, because I was like,
I was still holding on to thelike.
Oh, maybe you know, every now.
At the very beginning I wasabsolutely holding on to like,

(19:40):
well, maybe we can just drinkevery now, and then, you know,
because we had all the winestill and we had all this other
stuff, we're like, oh, we'lljust drink every now and then
it'll be no big deal, you know,um, and that was that wine that
I told you no, no, it's okay.

Rich V (19:56):
You know there's a lot of money in that wine.

Abbie G (19:58):
I won't touch it no, no , well, we did to be fair.
We didn't really but, um, butthe beginning I was like, oh
yeah, I'm sober, but I'm reallysupporting my husband.
So I don't know, it was all thefarce at the beginning, so I
don't know.
I guess it was like the wholeplay of me pretending I didn't
really have that bad of anaddiction.
So it wasn't really.

(20:19):
It was all fake anyway.
So I wasn't really admittinganything.
I was just kind of like oh yeahso.
I wasn't really admittinganything.
I was just kind of like oh yeah, I got a sponsor, yay for me.

Rich G (20:27):
You know, yeah, yeah.
Well, that kind of leads intothe the next question that I had
written down, which you guyswere going over the questions
before we started.
Both you guys kind of laughedas soon as I asked it.
But you know how, about threemonths in to the first time that
you tried to get sober, wereyou still admitting that you
were powerless.
And yeah, like, no, like I hadtaken back over right, like as
soon as I started to feel betterand the haze in my head had

(20:52):
begun to clear and I was back atwork and I was feeling in
control again.
And now, like now I'm no, no,I'm fine right, right Now.
I don't, I'm back in control andso, all of a sudden, I wasn't
feeling that powerless Over itand I was rewarded Again and

(21:18):
again and again With a relapse,until I finally came to terms
and really, really felt like itwas like really got to feel what
it was to come to terms withpowerlessness, you know mm-hmm.

Rich V (21:34):
So yeah, yeah, no, at three months.
At that point I really knewthat I was not in control.
I really knew I wasn't incontrol, but I didn't care that
I wasn't in control.
You know, I made it sober, Ithink I made it to three months

(21:57):
even though I was close to itand I, you know, I knew I wasn't
in control and I still wasn'tsure if I wanted to.
You know, things got to me, youknow, when I started drinking,
because work was really horrible, you know, and Christmas Eve,

(22:20):
and it was just awful, and blah,blah, blah.
And I got called in on NewYear's Day, of all things.
I had New Year's Day off.
I had to come in and run therestaurant because a manager
called out sick had New Year'sDay off.
I had to come in and run therestaurant because a manager
called out sick on New Year'sDay.
Are you kidding me?
You know, just, I got to drinkfor that.
There's got to be rules sayingyou're allowed to drink for that

(22:42):
.
There's no way.
I just knew I wasn't in control.
But, man, you know, there'scertain times where you've got
to be allowed to drink.
I'll just start by to myself.
I'll start my sobriety datehere, but everyone else will
still think it's back there.
It's the same thing, I'll keepthe sobriety date, but no one

(23:03):
else will know.
Yeah, it took me 10 months.
I was back in back in rehab andthat's that's when I really
knew that.
Yeah, that's I still.
Yeah, yeah, I knew at thatpoint that I really wasn't in
control.
I mean, you know, I knew Iwasn't in control, but I just

(23:24):
give it up.
I drink for, you know, a coupleof days and I'd stop for a long
time and that drink for acouple days and stop it.
It just the little things keptbothering me.
Yeah, you know they.
Yeah, yeah, then what then?

Rich G (23:38):
yeah, I finally decided to let God take over and then
started working a little bitbetter, a lot better by the time
I went back into treatment thesecond time I had been at war
for long enough to know that Ihad lost Right, like there was
no doubt in my mind that I wasfull on powerless.

(24:03):
But it took A lot of pain anddamage and shame and guilt.
And it took a lot of pain anddamage and shame and guilt and
it took a lot of work to getthere.
You fought and you know, and uh, yes, you were.
And you know I do want to saylike out loud that relapse

(24:28):
doesn't have to be part ofanybody's story.
But you know it is sometimesand it was part of mine and it
was hard, fight, fought, but andI came out of the other side
and you know I have a goodfriend.
You know you'll hear Godwilling, I'll be sober such and
such.
But I have a good friend thatsays God's willing, it's me, you
know, if I'm willing I'll besober tomorrow and I'm like, I

(24:50):
like that and so that's just.
It is that if I stay willingI'll stay sober and anyway so.
I'm glad that I was finally ableto surrender.

Abbie G (25:03):
Yeah, yeah I.
I thought I had handled itthree months.
I was like oh, no I feel great,I'm.
I'm good, you know you're,you're good, you were sober, so
I'm like yeah, like I said, I'mnot really a, you know, I'm not
really an alcoholic, I'm just alittle bit.
So I'm good, you know, I'm sober.
It was totally easy to quit,because now you're quit, so you
know, so I'm fine, you know.

(25:27):
And then we went out to dinnerand we got a bottle of wine for
our anniversary and I felt I waslike, okay, well, yeah, we'll
just do that.
And then I lied to everybodyand said my sobriety date was
this, just like you did, and Ihad the wine.
And then I had a year, but Ididn't because we had drank.
And, um, that lie led me to arelapse because I lied and it

(25:48):
dug into my psyche for the nextwhatever nine months or whatever
that was, and for my I don'tremember how long it was from
that time, but it dug into my.
You know the honesty of theprogram because you have to be
rigorously honest and if you'renot, it will get you, it will,
it'll get you, you, it will,it'll get you.

(26:15):
And so then it led to a relapseand I had a relapse and then I
went through and I had to do mysteps all over, or, let's see,
not at that point.
I did that and then I did.
I had another relapse and thenI did all my steps over again
but, like the second relapse,the significant part about that
one was before that one, Ifinally realized that I was
powerless because at that pointI was at work, thinking about
driving to the liquor storeright around the corner and

(26:36):
getting bottles on my lunchbreak.
I hadn't done that before.
Like I thought about it at homeduring COVID, because I was
miserable, right, and you werehere, everybody was miserable,
but we were at home during COVID.
At that point we were back atwork, and so I was like, oh, now
I'm thinking of getting alcoholfor during my lunch break and
drinking it at work in my car.

(26:58):
That's not regular, that's notcool.
You know what I mean.
And so I was like, oh, okay,hmm, maybe I'm not alcoholic,
like you know, and there wasother things too, but that was
like really one significantthing.
That was like okay, that.
And I felt the itch, I felt theallergy, I felt the craving
that I could not get rid of.

(27:20):
I felt it like I like a, likean actual craving, not just a
thought, but like like thephysical craving.

Rich G (27:26):
I felt it's a Craving's, a real thing, man and I was
like whoa, yeah, yeah, it wasyeah.

Abbie G (27:32):
So then I realized I was like okay, yeah, no, I'm
definitely an alcoholic.

Tangent from Rich V (27:36):
Yeah.

Abbie G (27:37):
Like I am for sure, yeah.

Tangent from Rich V (27:38):
Yeah.

Abbie G (27:38):
You know what I mean?
I just can't, I don't havecontrol.
Yeah, and that's where myrecovery started for real.

Rich V (27:52):
And it's so awesome when you admit to yourself that you
are out of control, yeah, andthat nothing, that you need help
, you know and you open yourselfup to.

Tangent from Rich V (28:07):
God.
Oh you got on a journey wellbeyond step one, man.
No, but it is step one, youknow, and you had no connection
to God whatsoever at step one.
There was a complete severthere.
Well, we're talking about stepone and step two, so that was me
leading to step two.
Okay, that's what I'm talkingabout.
Leading to step two is what?

Abbie G (28:27):
I'm talking about right now.
Well, I mean.

Tangent from Rich V (28:28):
I think you're leaking over into step
three.
I am a little bit.
I admit we haven't.
I love it.
You're so passionate about it,right, I love it you love to
tell the story.
It's a beautiful thing.

(28:48):
I tell lots of differentstories.
I'm just bringing you back in.
I'm just bringing you back.
I'm just bringing you back Loveand passion.
You ooze with love.
It's a beautiful thing.
Love is great.
Give me back.

Rich V (29:06):
I got your back.
So unmanageability, so that'swhere we are.
You were hanging out there andI was like yes, we're talking
about unmanageability.
And then you were like, let'sgo to fix it now.
I'll stop with theunmanageability.

Rich G (29:18):
My house is a mess, there we go.

Rich V (29:21):
My house is a mess.
That's what I relate it to.
My house is a mess.
That was unmanageability,Absolutely right.

Tangent from Rich V (29:31):
My absolutely right.

Rich G (29:32):
My house is a mess and you know I know I, I go back to
you like, uh, you know you'retalking about, yeah, right,
you're talking about the.
The internal struggle of thehouse is a mess, which is so
true, right, but I think back tolike my house was a mess like
my home right, like my socks hadbeen on for like six days and
they were like you know, theywere crusty and hard right and
like you know, it's just trueand my trash was overflowing in

(29:55):
his thump and my sink thosedishes.

Abbie G (29:59):
I didn't know what was in there and our entire
recycling was liquor bomb andour yeah, man, like it was, it
was embarrassing the entireneighborhood knew that our
recycling was being empty and itwas embarrassing.

Rich G (30:09):
When we emptied it out it would go crunk crunk, crunk,
crunk, crunk.
The entire neighborhood knewthat our recycling was being
emptied.

Abbie G (30:12):
Yeah, it was very loud Really loud.

Rich G (30:14):
We would have to put bottles in other places because
the recycling was too full andthere were bottles in my car.

Abbie G (30:20):
I would literally take the bottles and put them in and
then put stuff in between themso it wouldn't crash when I did
the recycling.

Rich G (30:27):
To pretend like that wasn't going to happen.

Tangent from Rich V (30:28):
Yeah, so it wouldn't crash.

Abbie G (30:30):
The neighbors wouldn't hear it breaking and crashing
when I poured it in there, right, so we actually do things to
make it not sound as bad.

Rich G (30:36):
Right, we live together, so we experienced it together.
My hair's greasy, my skin'sgreasy.
I can't go places.
I still go to the liquor storelike that, but I like I spent
time thinking about these things.

Abbie G (30:49):
I would like we would hide in the house and then we'd
like somebody would knock on thedoor or we'd get like door dash
or whatever, and I would gointo the bedroom and peek out of
the blinds Make me answer thedoor and be like, okay, they're
here, get the door.
Like I'd be terrified to answerthe door.
I was terrified to answer thedoor.

Rich G (31:07):
I don't know why we were crazy, why crazy, we were crazy
yeah, that's why because wewere crazy and uh and yeah, I
mean, life had becomeunmanageable.
When they called me back towork, I couldn't go to work
without drinking.
And when I did go to work, Iwould drink in the morning
before I went to work and I'dhide the bottle in my car and
then I'd have to get anotherbottle sometime during work and
I'd hide it in my bag or I youknow, I mean drinking and

(31:30):
driving, not just to get frompoint A to point B, but it was
an all day thing at that point.
Right, it was a, it was a and Idrove a lot for my job.
That is crazy, that is not.
That is not a well person, youknow, and that is a completely
unmanageable life.
You know, when I look back I'mlike there was nothing about

(31:51):
that.
I had no faith in anything.
I had lost any faith I had inmyself.
I had no faith in my wifeanymore.
I didn't have any friendsanymore.
Right, like over COVID,everybody just kind of like went
their own way and I was such amess I didn't want to be with
anybody anymore.
Anyway, I wanted to sit at homeby myself and drink Yep, and
there was nothing in life thatwas working anymore and it was

(32:14):
completely life.
And I was so back to powerless,I was so dependent on drink
that there was nothing else thatcould be more important than
making sure that was maintainedwell, that's the thing like when
I was.

Abbie G (32:34):
When we were drinking together, we would pretend that
we were going to have one bottle, and then we would fight over
the alcohol yep all day, shotfor shot, and we're like wait,
are you gonna have another shot?
Wait, I have to have anothershot, you're gonna have another
shot.
I'm not joking.
We would fight over the alcoholall day and then we'd fight
over who was gonna go get thenext bottle like two and a half
times their size.
She's trying to drink with me,poor girl well, yeah, I did, and

(32:56):
then I got a 0.33 on my duinice yeah not gonna do it.

Rich G (33:01):
Do it, I guess the cop was like how are you awake?

Abbie G (33:03):
I'm like I don't know the judge is like this shows
tolerance.

Rich G (33:07):
That's what she said verbatim.

Abbie G (33:08):
She said this shows tolerance.
I'm booking book of Dan orwhatever.

Rich G (33:12):
Yeah, right like you're done.

Abbie G (33:13):
But yeah, so I did want to spend a million on
unmanageable because powerless.

Rich G (33:17):
We spent a long time on, but yeah.
Manageable is a big part ofthat first step to.

Rich V (33:22):
I drink a 30 pack of Budweiser a day.

Rich G (33:24):
That's a lot yeah.

Rich V (33:26):
I mean I'd have three, that's a yeah, I mean I'd have
three.
I'd have three before I got inthe car to bring my daughter to
work, and then three before Igot to work.
And then I'd have I'd bring abag to work with me and I put
three to six beers in the gymbag.
It was closed over the top ofthe beer, you know, and stuff,

(33:49):
and then I'd have a six pack anda cooler in my car and so I got
to make a phone call.
I'm just going to run out to mycar, slam a couple beers.
Then, you know, I had to makesure I do it at least once an
hour.
I had to have a couple beersbecause then my hands would
start shaking really bad if Ididn't do it.

(34:09):
So I either grab the bag thatwas in my office and go to the
restroom and slam a couple beersthere where I could lock the
door, or I, if no one was around, I'd lock the door in the
office, slam a couple beers inthe office from my bag, or go
outside.
But normally that would.
Normally I would get a 12 packof beer during work in me, you
know.
You know a 10, 12 hour shift.

(34:29):
So that was me cooling it onthe drinking.
That was light drinking.
As soon as I got off theneveryone was gone out of the
restaurant.
It's around midnight Then I'dpour myself a couple off the tap
before I drive home to makesure I'm not shaking or anything
.
Before I drive home I'm niceand smooth so I'm comfortable on

(34:50):
the ride right right home.

Abbie G (34:51):
yeah, you're a good drunk driver great.

Rich V (34:53):
I drive much better when I'm drunk, you know.
So, okay, now I'm even now.
I made it through the day.
That was a long day, but I madeit all right.
And then I knew earlier in theday I'd put a 30 pack in my
refrigerator in the house and a30 packpack in my refrigerator
in the garage Boom.
So I'd be able to drive homethat way and my daughter had

(35:17):
already you know, she had eatenand you know, gone to bed and
stuff like that, so she hadtaken care of herself.
I had made her food earlier inthe day and she got home from
school and done that.
Boom.
Yeah.
And so that's how my days wouldgo.
I'd get up in the morning andI'd not much sleep and get her
off to school, drink before Ihad to go to work, and that's
how my days went.
Yeah, it was great.

Rich G (35:36):
I could never fit that much beer in.
Oh yeah, that's why I had to doliquor man Two fifths a day.
But yeah, I didn't have roomfor that much booze Beer.

Rich V (35:47):
Yeah, I have plenty of room for booze.
I'll say beer.
I drink beer because I controlbeer.
Oh yeah, I'm just drinking beer.
I see, yeah, 30-pack of beer,that's nothing.

Abbie G (35:58):
Yeah, it's funny because I talk a lot about COVID
but if I think back in our oldhouse, we couldn't keep a liquor
cabinet because we had.
It wasn't a cabinet, it waslike a shelf and we would have
alcohol there.
But like I would come home latefrom my job, that I worked, um
like swing shift or yeah, likelike nine, 30 hypothetically,

(36:21):
but then I would get home at 11.
And, um, if we bought a bottleof something, it was half drink
by him, and then I drink theother half when I got and say
I'd have two shots she'd takeshots.

Rich G (36:35):
140 proof liquor or 140 percent.
You know whiskey, that was likebarrel proof, I'm like.

Abbie G (36:42):
And then when that was gone, I was like shooting
whatever the weird crap wasbehind that.
That nobody ever drank.
That was a mixer, you know,like the vermouth and the like.

Rich V (36:52):
Weird uh like all the slow gin.

Abbie G (36:55):
No, I love slow gin and rum juice, man, that's good
anyway, but like you know what Imean, we couldn't keep alcohol
in the house.
Even back then it was like andwe've lived in this house like
eight years, seven years, soeven back like that way back
yeah, our alcohol was startingto be unmanageable back then
because we could not keepalcohol in the house.

Rich G (37:13):
Yeah, we talked about covid, but.
But we just realized that codewas where we decided to hit
bottom, yeah, and thencontinuously beat our head
against bottom until we decidedto stop yeah, it was
unmanageable before that.

Abbie G (37:26):
Because I was like, if I really think, I mean, that's
when it really started to becomeunmanageable before that.
Because I was like, if I reallythink, I mean that's when it
really started to becomeunmanageable.
It was like we literallycouldn't keep alcohol in the
house.
You know, if there wasn'talcohol in the house, I was
breaking open bottles of winefrom his stuff from work or I
was drinking the weird stuff atthe back.
Yeah, you know that nobodywanted to drink.
And then he'd wake up and belike why is this empty?
Why is this empty?

(37:49):
I'd be like I don't know, Likethere's any other people besides
him and I in the house Don'tdrink it.
No.

Rich V (37:55):
You wouldn't think about just like getting a couple
handles go to Costco.

Rich G (38:00):
We did that and the handles would be gone in a day
or a day and a half, if it waslike normal, while you drink
normally, it would be gone realquick.

Abbie G (38:07):
Yeah, we did handles before COVID and during COVID.
That's when we started onhandles Before COVID and then
during COVID.

Rich V (38:15):
Yeah, what a team.

Rich G (38:19):
We don't mess around.

Abbie G (38:20):
We didn't do handles back then, because I think we
genuinely didn't do handles,because I don't know if we would
have.

Tangent from Rich V (38:27):
Probably would have gone through the
handles.

Abbie G (38:29):
Do we even think that we didn't buy those because we
thought we wouldn't?

Rich G (38:32):
I think we still thought that we were, that we weren't
too good for that.

Abbie G (38:36):
Yeah, we didn't buy handles because we were too
fancy.

Rich G (38:38):
We want the good stuff so, luckily, we do things so
full on and right now we'redoing recovery full on, which is
working for us.

Rich V (38:48):
So we've, you're putting up as much effort in your
recovering as you were drinking.

Rich G (38:56):
Yes, we were just talking about that earlier.

Rich V (38:57):
Seriously, though you know you're going to your
meetings.
You're sponsoring, we're doingthis.

Rich G (39:07):
Being of service.
Showing up for people, doingwhat we say we're going to do,
yeah, being of service, being ofservice, showing up for people,
yeah, doing what we say we'regoing to do, and all of those,
things.

Rich V (39:14):
It is a common saying If you worked as hard at your
recovery as you did when youwere drinking, then you'd be
okay.
Well, I mean you guys, yeah,yeah.

Rich G (39:30):
I'm right.
There too, I'm drinking alone,man.
I chased cocaine real hard.
I chased weed real hard.
I chased all the things that Idid.
If I decided that I wanted todo something, I'd get after it
right.

Abbie G (39:43):
So yeah, we did um.
We have real big pile ofcocaine at one point, yeah too,
yeah, yeah yeah, just all bad,don't incriminate us, we don't
even know it now.

Rich G (39:54):
Yeah right, it was a long time ago.
It was like five years ago.
It was a long time ago, it'snot in the house now.

Abbie G (40:00):
It was a long, long, long time ago.
I'm not telling you where wegot it.
I'm not telling you where itwent.

Rich V (40:05):
I quit that when I was 23, smoking pot and doing coke,
I decided you know what this?
Just I don't like the hangoversfrom this coke.
It's way too much, because Iwould drink a ton of beer while
I was doing it, of course, andthe hangovers are just rugged.

Abbie G (40:20):
They're really rough Rugged.

Rich V (40:22):
And I just didn't want to do those anymore.
And pot, that when I was 23,you know it used to be.
You know all of you that youknow had the experience with pot
too.
Yeah, I'm sure all of you did.
You know, when I was 23, youknow that's before that you got
all the shake and not such goodstuff.
You just roll yourself a jointwith your buddy, you know, share
a joint and have the munchies alittle bit and enjoy yourself.

(40:43):
You know, go to a party andhave a joint and so forth, and
just, he had fun.
When I was 23, that's when upnorth, up in humboldt um, we're
in california, so so, so up inhumboldt, they um decided to
come out and learn how to, youknow, make the really good weed
and the really stinky buds.
That's when they first reallystarted rolling those out.
And so that's when I had it acouple times and realized that,

(41:05):
boom, you know, just it wasn'tfun anymore.
It knocked me on the butt, yeah, you know.
And so that's when I stoppeddoing weed.
Yeah, because I couldn'tcontrol it at all.
I control my drinking, you know, but the weed now that just
there's no fun anymore.

Abbie G (41:18):
You're gonna handle it.
No, that was the same, I triedI smoked pot next.

Rich V (41:22):
Thing.

Abbie G (41:22):
I know I'm just watching tv it's just gone that
was the same.
I tried the real um the realstrong weed.
I was like immediately paranoid.

Rich G (41:31):
Yeah, abby smoked herself, paranoid.
Yeah, all right, guys.
So we've admitted that we werepowerless and our life had
become unmanageable.
We talked about that.
We used to drink a lot.
We did yeah, we did, and howmuch of a mess that was making
for us.

Rich V (41:46):
And so how messy our house was.

Abbie G (41:49):
Yes, oh, literally and figuratively.

Rich G (41:51):
Yeah, and so now we're going to head into step two.
So that's where we came tobelieve that a power greater
than ourselves could restore usto sanity.
Mm-hmm, and so you know.
My first question is you know,was this a difficult step for
you, and why?

Rich V (42:12):
It was a piece of cake step for me.
Yeah yeah, because, man, Irealized that I got to go to
rehab.
I was blessed with being ableto go to rehab.
Step one and step two prettywell taken care of.
Yeah, I can't do this, you knowI just can't do this.
I tried, you know I tried to,you know, only have this much

(42:36):
around beer each day or onlyhave that.
You can measure it out, allthat sort of stuff, but I just
it was, it was pretty easy, youknow, I just I knew I couldn't
do it myself, that's right, andI just needed I.
I was, I used to go to church alot, so I had a, you know, a

(43:00):
background in church.
You know I had stopped going fora personal reason I'm not going
to go into.
But so I a good basis of God,of a higher power, and I
realized that I ain't making it,my house is a mess and I can't
do this myself and I've just gotto get some help.

(43:24):
And that's when I just said,hey, I've got to get help, I
can't do it myself.
And, yeah, I reached out forhelp.
I mean, it's just as easy asthat.
I just, I hurt, I hurt, I hurtso bad I have to get help.
My first step I realized that,man, this is horrible, it hurts

(43:46):
so bad I'm drinking all this.
Everything's gone inside,everything.
So bad I'm drinking all this,my everything's gone inside.
You know, everything's horrible.
I admitted it.
You know this is me, this is,this is who I am, you know.
And I can't do it.
And next step I just said, youknow, I gotta feel better.
I gotta somehow feel better,you know, and, and I can't make
myself feel better, I just can'tdo it.

(44:08):
And I mean, you know you'rechurning at that point You're
churning, you know.
And that first step, you knowit makes you centered.
Okay, okay, I admitted it andI'm going to.
You know, luckily I wasrehabbed.
I had tons of other people thatadmitted it already, so they're
helping me out admitting it.

(44:31):
But still, you know, you try tofind a path.
How do I get on that path?
How do I find my way along thatway?
How do I do it?
You really got to give it up.
You got to give it up to God.
You got to find a higherpurpose.
You got to find something togive it up to.
That's where you're at.
On step two, you find a tellyourself, man, I gotta get
someone to hand this over to you.

(44:52):
And uh, so that's where you'reat, you just realizing I gotta
hand this, this horrible disease, over to someone.
I can't handle it myself.
I need help.

Abbie G (45:00):
Yeah, yeah um, this one is like a two-parter kind of
for me.
So came to believe a powergreater than myself could
restore me to sanity.
Came to believe a power greaterthan myself could restore me to
sanity.
Came to a power greater thanmyself was not an issue for me.
I grew up in the church and Iwasn't um the church itself I
have kind of again issues kindof with that but god, I did

(45:24):
believe in god and I didn't haveum issue with God.
And so AA actually brought meback to a God of my own
understanding and brought meback to the church, which is
interesting because that wasn'treally what I had planned to do.
So a power greater than myselfto restore me to sanity was not
the issue, because I did believein God the whole time.

(45:45):
I just had walked away and nothad a relationship with God
during a whole bunch of years inthe middle, you know, since I
was like 20 to, like, you know,a couple of years ago, a few
years ago.
So, yeah, so that wasn't anissue for me, and once I started
doing the prayers and all that,it was like kind of like riding
a bike.
I just jumped right back on.

(46:05):
As far as the sanity isconcerned, though I life.
Then I was like, oh, there arelike some of my actions were
really not OK or not.
They didn't make any sense.

(46:31):
It wasn't just like I was mean,they were like not logical or
like they were really like justout of control, you know, and
that.
So that sanity piece there, Ididn't really believe that at
first.
I didn't.
That didn't really resonatewith me at first.
I was just like okay, came tobelieve in power greater than
myself can help me.
Is what I really believed atthe very, very beginning will

(46:54):
help me, not restore me sanity,because I was like I don't
really feel like I'm the same.
So I kind of like just rolledover that last piece at the very
beginning.

Rich G (47:07):
And then once I got deeper into it I was like oh
yeah, I'm not so.
Yeah, I mean, I've been tellingyou that for years.

Abbie G (47:13):
You know what?
Nobody asked you.
Okay, nobody asked you, but no,but for real, though, it was
just like it did take me a whileto really figure out that I was
the problem.
Well, like I said, I thought Iwas alcoholic.
It's a recurring theme, youknow.
As you can see, characterdefects, that's how we go.
So yeah, so that was aninteresting one for me, yeah.

Rich V (47:36):
I knew I was insane.
I just knew I'd lost me.

Abbie G (47:40):
Well, I think I did know, but I didn't really want
to.
I just, I don't know.
I think I lied to myself a lotand I didn't.
I actually I did describe itlike this when I talked to my
sponsor, I always said I think Igaslit myself on accident, I
don't know why.
Because I really like, I reallybelieved a lot of things about

(48:01):
myself, you know, and I don'treally think I was trying to be
like I was trying to believe it,like I was soothing.
I think it was justself-soothing.

Rich V (48:12):
We're great liars.
And then I was like oh, no, Ididn't.

Abbie G (48:16):
You know, I don't know.
I really I think I wasgaslighting myself for a long
time about it.

Rich V (48:20):
I mean, I was gaslighting myself for a long
time about some things.
I mean, I was the greatest liarin the world.
I was the greatest liar in theworld Because I believed I
didn't lie to people.

Abbie G (48:27):
I believed I was really nice to everyone.
I lied to myself and I lied toeveryone, even though I was
downtown, sometimes yelling atpeople on the side of the road,
and the cops had to walk up tome and say, hey, is everybody
okay?

Rich V (48:45):
And I was like like, yeah, it's fine, why?

Rich G (48:46):
would you walk up to me because I was screaming at
someone.
That's why, oh no, someone I'mscreaming at someone.

Abbie G (48:49):
I'm not crazy.
What are you talking about?

Rich G (48:52):
sir, go sit on the curb, all right, um so that was the
other time.

Abbie G (48:58):
I'm not even talking about that time.

Rich G (48:59):
Sanity, sanity I think, has like a few different things
for me.
Right, like I think that wasthe other time, I'm not even
talking about that time Sanity,I think, has a few different
things for me.
I think in some cases I waslike, yeah, I'm crazy, and then
in other cases I'd be like, whywouldn't I be crazy?
Look at all the crap that Ihave to put up with.

Abbie G (49:17):
Yeah, that's, true I hate that line Right.

Rich V (49:21):
It's your fault that I'm crazy right.

Tangent from Rich V (49:23):
Yeah.

Rich G (49:23):
It's your fault that.

Tangent from Rich V (49:24):
I'm crazy.

Rich G (49:24):
All this bullshit, all our excuses.
You know, yeah, it's one ofthose.
Like you know, it's not myfault, it's not my problem.
I hate when I hear that, butyou know, when we're talking
about the insanity of substanceuse or alcoholism that was I had
definitely recognized that.
Right, like I could definitelylook around my life once.

(49:46):
I yeah, I could definitely lookaround my life and realize that
it was insanity, even before Ireally wanted to admit my
powerlessness.
Right, like I'm like, okay,this craziness has to stop.
Right like I'm like, okay, this, this craziness has to stop.
Right.
Um, a power greater than myselfwas not easy for me at the

(50:07):
beginning.
Um, I had fallen into theindividualist model.
Right, like, I had to be this,the strong one.
I had to be the strong one forabby had to be the strong one
for my family, for the peoplewho looked up to me, for the
people who worked for me.
Like I had to be the strong onefor my family, for the people
who looked up to me, for thepeople who worked for me.
Like I had to be that pillar ofstrength.
And so I had come to a place,with my relationship with a

(50:30):
higher power or God, that Ididn't say like there is no God.
I said I don't know if there isa God and if there is, a.
God.
Then, whatever, whateverthey're doing, they're not
concerned about me or what I'mdoing, you know.
So how are they gonna, how isthat power gonna, resort me to

(50:50):
sanity?
And I felt that way even in myfirst you know little run um,
walking into, walking into,walking into treatment the first
time, um, it was more like whenI was like, okay, if I've got
to accept this, it's going to belike you know, the whole, uh,

(51:10):
you know, group of drunks orwhatever, you know, whatever
higher power is going to be thepeople I'm around.
It's going to be, uh, you know,whatever acronyms there are.
There's other ones, I can'tthink of it now but that's where
I had to start you know,and it was difficult for me to

(51:34):
think of anything other than methat was going to squirrel my
ass out of that situation.
Right, and you know, we kind ofhad this conversation after I
spent three years of tryingreally hard and still making a
mess out of things.
The part of my problem was thatI had never done one, two,

(51:56):
three.
I'd never done steps one, two,three properly.
I'd never really done that themand so really for me it wasn't
until I went back into treatmentin february of 24 that, like a
couple days in that Isurrendered that I was powerless

(52:18):
and that I that I was done thatI was powerless and that I was
done.
I was done fighting, and then Iturned it over to you know, I
mean some of the literature willsay a god of your understanding
.
But I've come to terms with itlike I'm better off to not try

(52:39):
to pretend to know anythingabout what God is or what God is
thinking or anything.
You know, I it's, it's beyondme, right, like can't understand
it, I believe in it and I needhelp, and so that's what I lean

(53:00):
on, right, and that's it.
Like, like, I don't really tryto go further than that, um, but
, but, and that's it, right, soI won't go into the third step.
But I did finally concede like,okay, power greater than me is
going to restore me to sanity.
Okay, let's figure this outthere, you know, and so so.

(53:23):
But that took me three, almostthree years of solid because
March 21, I think, was when Iwent to treatment the first time
to February 24.
So three years of fighting yeah, you know, fighting, fighting a

(53:44):
losing battle yeah, to finally,you know, figure out that I was
not going to figure out asolution on my own, you know,
and I didn't try to do it thewhole way on my own, but I still
wanted my piece of the control.
And I finally had to go likelike, no, it's not up to me.

(54:05):
So the next question I have uh,I'm going to skip one of them,
but so what did it feel like, uh, when you, when you came to
truly believe that the power torestore you would not come from
you?

Rich V (54:18):
um, power to restore you would not come from you the
power to restore, you would notcome from you.

Rich G (54:24):
So when you finally said , like what I was just
describing, like okay, fine,it's not going to be me.

Rich V (54:30):
Oh, that I was going to get help.
Yeah, oh, that my higher powerwas going to help me.
Yeah, oh, here's one giantboulder.
Here one giant boulder hereRelief.

Abbie G (54:40):
I was so relieved.

Rich V (54:51):
I was like, oh, thank you, that's cool, I'm good.
And and the very start of that,um, a pathway between here, my
higher power, just startedopening.
You know that that pathwaybetween my soul, my heart and my
soul started opening to myhigher power.
Yeah, and that first crack ofof the, the goodness and love
that was inside of me, thatreally wanted to love me, that
first crack started happeningand it was really cool.

(55:12):
It was really cool feeling justthat first warmth of love for
myself, just just got a peek outthere, got that boulders off my
shoulder so I could relax,could relax for the first time
in I don't know how long.
I didn't have to lie anymore.
I don't have to lie anymore, Idon't have to, and I just

(55:38):
relaxed, felt that little drench, it was great.
I just relaxed, felt thatlittle twinge, it was great,
right, yeah, I just realizedthat there was something in it.

Rich G (55:48):
But I do, you know, I understand like, and that is
where, like, maybe you start tofeel that twinge of connection,
right Like, where you know,because for me, you know you say
boulders off your shoulders I'mlike, I see it as like, like
the elephant that's been sittingon my chest.
I thought for a few years, butreally for a long time.
Right For like, oh, you didMaybe even more about most of my

(56:10):
life, but this elephant finallywent, like you know, decided to
stir and start to stand upRight and so I could breathe
again.
And yeah, like it was like onceI said, okay, I'm gonna need
the help of a power greater thanme.
Then all of a sudden, thatpower greater than me went like
okay, cool, thanks for invitingme to the party.
You know, here I am, you know.

(56:33):
And all of a sudden, like I feltlike okay, yeah, like there you
are, you know there you were orthere the whole time right and
I just didn't want to turn to itso yeah, it sounds
counterintuitive because wealways want to control
everything.

Abbie G (56:49):
But sure it's just, it's such a relief to just say
I'm not in control and give upthe reins and the car is just
going to drive itself.
Well, not itself.
God's going to drive the carand you just get to sit there
and read a book or figuratively,of course, you know what I mean
but you just get to sit thereand do the things that you know

(57:12):
people in life do, instead oftrying to control the wind and
the ocean.
Not that we do that, but youknow, that's what we think we
can do.
We think we can do that and wecan't, and then we fight against
the ocean.
And that's impossible.

Rich V (57:27):
And then I mean sometimes we have to do this.
You know, things that we haveto do that were on our shoulders
also are gone Because we don'treally have to do that?

Abbie G (57:38):
No, that's what I keep trying to tell my sponsees.
I'm like, you don't have to bein the middle of everybody
else's problems.

Rich V (57:45):
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to teach people, that isn't it
People?

Abbie G (57:48):
because they jump in the middle and I'm like you do
not have to do that.
You can have your own problemsand some people.
You can help people, yes.
You don't have to be their onlysolution for every single

(58:09):
problem that they have.
Yeah, they can clean their ownhouse exactly yeah, because then
you have all of their problemson your shoulders too, and
that's not really fair to younot fair to other people either
no, because you're, you're,you're basically a crutch for
them, you know, and that's whatI said.
And then there was therealization of like, oh yeah,
it's like if you teach your kidsthat you do the dishes, then

(58:29):
they'll do the dishes.
If you always do the dishes forthem, they're never going to
learn.
It was like kind of like an ahamoment, like that, you know,
and so it's just, I mean that'sa little off topic, but it's
still.
It's just, I mean that's alittle off topic, but it's still
.
It's just you don't have to,like I said I was earlier.
I was sitting here not worryingabout this other thing here,

(58:51):
this other person over here,this other thing over here,
because I have talked to Godabout it already.
I've already told him what myworries are.
I've already asked him for helpwith those.
I've already said help thisperson with this or put the
protection over this person orgive this person grace.
So that's gone already.
I've already done that today.
So I don't have to worry aboutit because I already gave it to
that.

(59:11):
I gave it to him.
I already told him what Ineeded from him or how to help
these people.
So why do I have to sit andworry about it?
I already have to sit and worryabout it.
I already did it.
I did it first thing thismorning, or maybe even
throughout the day, because Ithought of it later yeah and now
I'm sitting here without theworry about those people,
because I already did it, yeah,and he's got it.

Rich V (59:29):
I don't have to worry because I'm not in control of
that and if you gave it to him,it's his job and if you want to
send any more love or grace tothem, you know at all during the
day boom, you can do that letJust do it again.
Yeah.

Abbie G (59:39):
You know what I mean.
And once I've done that, thenit's in his hands, or the entire
power, his, her, whatever youknow their hands and I don't
have to try to control itbecause I can't control it.
There's no way I'm going to goto my friend's house and control
her life.
You know, even if I give her aphone call, I'm not going to
control her life.

(01:00:00):
It's just not a thing that wecan do.
You can't control other peopleand you can't control.
You know, it's just not a thing.

Rich G (01:00:08):
So Well, turning over the wheel comes in the next
episode.

Rich V (01:00:12):
You know I was dating.
I dated a gal Did.

Abbie G (01:00:15):
I rant to you now A little bit Sorry.

Rich G (01:00:16):
Okay, I love it.
Well, we always have the lastcouple of questions that we like
to hit, and so, in the spiritof progress, not perfection, do
you have something that you'vebeen working on lately?

Rich V (01:00:36):
Oh, I can chime in.
You were on all sorts of stuff.

Rich G (01:00:39):
So for me this is kind of like you know, know, so this
is a progress, not perfectionthing, right.
So, uh, something that has comeup for me again since I started
school again is, uh, working onmy listening skills, to to be
um more focused on how I'mlistening, and uh, so, yeah, so
something that you know I was alittle more cognizant of before,

(01:01:01):
that maybe I've, you know, losta little bit of focus there.
So that's something that I wantto get a little refreshed on
and get a little better at myactive listening with people.

Abbie G (01:01:13):
Yeah, I think I haven't really started to focus on it,
but I need to again.
After the holidays I hadn'tstarted really focusing on what
I'm eating, um, again, as far aslike eating healthier and we,
we kind of are, but then I alsoneed to watch my portion control
too.
So I think that's what I'd liketo start working towards again,

(01:01:33):
cause I was doing that, um,before the holidays and the
holidays you know the holidays,but um, yeah, I think I wanted
to start doing that again tojust, you know, pay attention
and make sure I'm looking andnot just mindless eating, sure.

Rich V (01:01:50):
Cool and wow, what am I working on?
Yeah, you know, outside of 12step programs too, there are
also individual therapists,which are always I'm sorry.
I love seeing therapists.
I just got a new one and hejust kicks butt, and I just saw

(01:02:13):
him for the past couple weeksand so that's what I've been
working on.
He's and, uh, he recognizedsomething in me that's been
bugging me for years and justlike really hit a note that I
don't know why no one else hadseen it, but it's really good.
So that's what I've beenworking on right now.

(01:02:34):
It's kind of personal.
Yeah, it's a thing to say, youknow, but I'm getting a chance
to work on that, notice it, andit's taking you know.
You know, but I'm getting achance to work on that and
notice it, and it's taking youknow.
You know, there's anotherlittle boulder up here that I
didn't know about and it's kindof wiggling that one off right
now and it feels pretty good.
So, yeah, so don't, don't worryabout going to see a therapist

(01:02:54):
if you want a little bit morefreedom in your life with 12
steps.
You know, there's other stuffthat's bothering you.
You know it used to be.
Going to a therapist is kind ofyou know what are you doing,
that, and I'd love seeing atherapist and there'll be
another person in your lifethat'll help you get it back

(01:03:14):
into control too.

Rich G (01:03:15):
Yeah, we've come into a time where the stigma of therapy
has been removed, and that's abeautiful, beautiful thing, man.
It better be removed, becauseit is a beautiful thing.
Working on yourself is, uh,very important.
Yeah, 12 steps is part of that,but, you know, seeking outside
help beyond 12 steps or yourrecovery program, is big part of
it as well yeah, yep, yeah, itmade me a better person.

Rich V (01:03:37):
Helping, helping me make become a better person
absolutely so.

Rich G (01:03:40):
Then, uh, are there any uh any big gifts that you've
been given recently by recovery?
I know I have one that happenedto kind of us over the holidays
and that is that we got tospend a lot of like really great
quality time with our littleniece of six years old and we
really got to experience like alike a next level connection

(01:04:01):
with her.
She lives a long way away fromus, like seven hours away from
us or something like that.
We really got to experience anext-level connection with her
that felt really special andmade us feel both a lot closer
to her.
We have a good relationshipwith her now, but just really
blossomed more of a of acloseness that I really enjoyed

(01:04:22):
getting to have, and I certainlythink that some of that, if not
all of it, is because of, uh,where I've come in my life today
.

Rich V (01:04:31):
Yeah, yeah, that was a great story.
I loved hearing that when youguys got back.
Yeah, yeah.

Abbie G (01:04:36):
I think mine, um, at least the most recently, is, um,
just the seeing the higherpower working in my sponsee's
lives.
It's just really beautiful andit's just boosted my spiritual
experience too.
You know what I mean.
It's just like I said that'swhy I brought that up today.
It's just the spiritual highfrom it.
It's just like my heart's justlike floating.

(01:04:58):
That's how it feels.
It's just amazing and I love itand it's just it's.
It's it's to see the light goon and have it be me.
Get to be a part of that isjust above all.

Rich V (01:05:11):
See the miracles happen yeah.

Abbie G (01:05:12):
And have me be part of the miracle.
I've seen the light come on,but it hasn't been me who's done
it or helped do it, and it'sjust.
It's really, you know, over thetop Awesome.

Tangent from Rich V (01:05:23):
Yep.

Rich V (01:05:23):
So, yeah, one thing I, you know, always say and I did
with.
You know, anyone who's you knowaddicted and just trying to
stay sober or straight, you know, and you know each day.
You know you can do it and staysober that day, that's a
miracle, you know.

(01:05:45):
And each day you can stay sober, it's another miracle, you know
.
And you know I get to look atmy friends here and they're a
miracle.
You know.
Each of us that can stay sober,you know, not a lot of us can
do it.
You know, there's not that manyof us who get to come out of
the other end of it.

(01:06:05):
We're all miracles, and so wejust keep looking at it this way
.
Man, you're just all miracles.
You're all beautiful.
You make it out of theaddiction and enjoy your life.
It's a miracle.
So I'm going to end it that waywith myself Cool, I like it.

Rich G (01:06:24):
If you have any questions about today's show or
anything else recovery related,please feel free to reach out in
our comments section, Facebook,Instagram or email the riches.
You can find all of thatinformation in the episode
description.
We will release episodes on the1st and 15th of each month.
Sorry, we missed you last monthand we look forward to having
you join us for future content.
Thank you, Abby and Rich, forjoining me today.

(01:06:47):
Thank you, Thank you and thankyou for being part of my
sobriety today.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for giving ussome of your time.
We really hope you gotsomething out of today's episode
.
We would be honored if youwould like and share the episode
or leave a review or commentwith your takeaways.
Don't forget to subscribe totune into future episodes.
Have a great day.