February 15, 2025 • 61 mins
This episode focuses on Step Three of the 12-step program—surrendering one’s will and life to a higher power. Our hosts discuss their personal experiences with surrender and the profound impact it has had on their recovery journeys. The conversation highlights the significance of seeking help, the role of therapy, and how understanding a higher power can foster peace and empowerment in the face of addiction.
The challenges of transitioning from a structured environment like rehab back to the unpredictability of everyday life take center stage in our conversation. The Rich’s and Abbie discuss the false sense of control that often accompanies addiction, shedding light on the internal battles faced when confronting one's own role in the cycle of dependency. The episode emphasizes the transformative power of surrender, highlighting the fear of losing one's identity but ultimately finding relief and freedom in letting go of the need to control everything. Personal anecdotes illustrate how acknowledging and surrendering burdens can lead to a more peaceful existence.
• Discussion on gratitude and sharing positive experiences
• Importance of therapy in recovery
• Anecdotes about struggles with surrender
• Need for external support and guidance
• Concept of a higher power embodying love
• Viewing surrender as empowering rather than defeating
• Shared insights on personal growth in recovery
• Encouragement for listeners to embrace vulnerability
• Reflection on the evolving journey of surrender
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rich G (00:00):
Addiction to Purpose with Riches and Recovery
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Additionally, we may talk aboutthings such as sexual abuse,
(00:24):
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Finally, if you are a heavydaily user of alcohol or drugs
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professional for assistance.
Welcome to the conversation.
(00:48):
Hi, welcome back for anotherepisode of Addiction to Purpose.
We're glad you joined us andwe're going to continue on with
the second episode of our Stepsseries.
The last episode we talkedabout Steps 1 and 2, where we
talked about admittingpowerlessness and
unmanageability in our life, aswell as recognizing that a power
greater than us would be thething that could take us out of
(01:10):
that.
Today, we're going to beconfining the discussion to just
one step.
The next step in the series isgoing to be step three, and you
know it can be a pretty heavyone, pretty important one, along
the way, and so we're going todig into that and just spend
this whole episode on that onestep.
But first, of course, we'lltalk about who we are.
My name's Rich G and this is mybuddy, rich V.
Abbie (01:34):
Abby G and.
Rich G (01:35):
Abby, so you know I forgot to prepare us for this
before we jumped into this.
But what do we have that we'regrateful for today?
Oh man, so much On the spot.
I know you should be able toshoot from the hip on this, come
on.
Abbie (01:51):
Yeah, you know what I was grateful for the rain today.
I really love the rain and Idon't know, I just always love
it.
It's real cozy when you'reinside and outside.
I even like walking in the rain.
Rich G (02:01):
Yeah, yeah, I noticed you woke up a little slower this
morning I did, I did, but I dolove the rain staying a little
cozy in bed.
Rich V (02:08):
Uh well, me what I'm grateful for.
I don't want to lose my mancard for this, but my cat, you
know it was your man notice.
You know, um, I had to get upreally early today and I was
really flipping tired and I gothome and I just wanted to rest a
little while and there my catcomes over near me and we we had
the little space heater on andwe just kind of kicked it and
(02:29):
watched a movie together and Irested and stuff and it was nice
.
It was nice and relaxing andwarm and yeah, it was pretty
cool.
So, yeah, that's for Otis, mycat.
Rich G (02:38):
I love that man.
When I met this guy a littleover three years ago, he was not
a cat guy, right.
And one day he shows up, he'slike I got a cat and now he's
smitten with his cat.
And for me, let's see, you know, what's been really cool lately
is that I'm learning to accessmore resources at school, which
is cool.
So I've been applying for, like, more scholarships and asking
(03:08):
for for more help, right.
So, like finding, um, you know,there's different things that I
can take advantage of at school, like, for instance, they will
offer me six therapy sessionsper semester, right, so, you
know, taking advantage of that,and some of the other things
that are like free services.
Uh well, not free, right, theycome with my tuition, but, but
therapy is freaking expensive.
If I can get six no-costtherapy sessions, there's a lot
(03:30):
of value in that it's hard toget appointments too.
Abbie (03:33):
Just to find a therapist right now.
Rich G (03:34):
that will take you, whether or not you even like
them.
Rich V (03:39):
I got to meet with my therapist for the first time
this last week, like I said,I've been applying for
scholarships and differentthings.
Rich G (03:46):
That's kind of cool.
You know, that is really cool.
Being able to ask for help andget help is always a nice thing.
Rich V (03:52):
I want to jump in on that.
I mean, you know you'reintroducing and doing all that
part, but you know a lot of us.
You know we've been through thegrinder.
You know with our disease.
You know, and you know a lot oftimes you know when we've, you
know, been in jail or we'vewe've run into problems that you
know get in our head.
(04:12):
You know cause we've reallybeen in our head when we're
dealing with our, with ouraddictions and it'll mess you up
in the head.
And I know, I know I've gone andseen outside help a lot.
You know, after, after, withwith this 12 step program, I've
seen therapists and it's helpedme out a ton.
(04:33):
You know to, to just get somepersonal attention.
You know, and see someone whogets to know me and know, knows
how I tick and and help me out.
And it is definitely definitelynot frowned upon at all by
anyone in any 12 step programfor you to go out and get some
help.
It's just fantastic to do it.
It makes you feel good.
Yeah, there used to be a lot ofweird feelings about that, but
(04:58):
no, no See, going to therapistis rock and roll, that's.
There's nothing wrong with thatat all.
Rich G (05:03):
Yeah, I think therapy was stigmatized, just in the
United States for a long time.
I feel like for a long time inthe United States you'd only go
to therapy if you were crazy,especially as a man, not to poor
man.
It's not a thing.
The patriarchy is strong.
Men aren't supposed to Men.
(05:25):
For a very long time we're notsupposed to feel things right.
Yeah, men don't get sad, youknow, forget about it, but
anyway so, but yeah.
Abbie (05:34):
Well, we just had therapy , or we were witches, you know.
Rich G (05:36):
Yeah, right, right.
Abbie (05:38):
Witches or therapy, I don't know yeah there you go
right right Fainting witches.
When you, right now, when youhave an opinion, when you have
an opinion, uh, we'll go aheadand burn you at the stake, right
?
Yeah right.
Rich G (05:49):
We're either a witch or we're fainting, because we're
you know, yes, because you'redramatic the hysterics
hysterical yeah yeah, um, yeah,so that was fun um, it's all bad
but it's really cool to to youknow, and there was definitely a
time in my life right where,like my pride and my ego would
have gotten in the way of mesaying like I need help.
Yeah, you know, like there's nochance.
Rich V (06:08):
You know, there was a time for me too, but, man, I
went through a time where, uh,um, uh, I was going through
divorce and living with thatperson at the same time till the
house sold, and then my father,who was my best friend at the
time also he was going throughbrain cancer and that was my
brain was blown up andeverything, and I went to see
someone just to help me getthrough that, and that was the
(06:31):
first time I'd seen a therapistand that was it, man.
I knew that it was a good thingto do.
Rich G (06:35):
Yeah yeah this is hard to get through that yeah sure,
that's a lot yeah, well, righton, thanks for sharing your
guys's gratitudes with me.
It always, uh, lifts my spiritsto think about things to be
grateful for, yeah yeah so thethird step, you know the third
step, so that's uh, where wemade the decision to turn our
(06:56):
will and our lives over to thecare of god.
As we understand god, yeah anduh, yeah, so so that's, that's
the step Right Made the decisionto turn our will and our lives
over to the care of God as weunderstand it.
So you know, we live in aculture where people are taught
that you know they're masters oftheir own destiny and that if
(07:18):
you work hard enough, that ifyou're moral enough, you're
strong enough.
You know sometimes, like evenif you're mean enough, that
you're going to.
You know sometimes, like evenif you're mean enough, that
you're going to get what youwant, what you desire.
And sometimes you know, I thinkearly on in your recovery, you
even think that that means thatyou can somehow will yourself to
recover.
Yeah, yeah, you're tough enough.
You're tough enough, or likeit's just that you're living an
(07:41):
immoral life, Right.
And if you just become moral,you know, if you just get more,
you know, if you just fixwhatever you're doing, that's
bad right, then you're going torecover and yeah, it goes deeper
than that.
It went deeper than that for me.
That's how I should say it.
So, yeah, what are our thoughtson that kind of approach?
Rich V (08:02):
Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, my first time
through rehab after my next 28days, and everyone's on couches
you know, a lot of rehabs arelike that and I'm saying goodbye
to everyone.
And what did I do?
But I ran and high-fivedeveryone in the couches saying
I'm doing great, I'm cured, Igot this beat, guys, you know,
(08:23):
gals, and I'm high-fivingeveryone on the way out and I'll
see you later.
I'm going to come back in, youknow, aftercare, you know, and
stuff like that.
And you know there's a class Icome in during it that you know,
come see everyone and stufflike that.
You know I'm all better.
And then I got out in the realworld Not a great sponsor and
stuff, but you know I tried todo it all my way and do it all
(08:45):
in my will, you know, becauseI'm tough and you know I'm the
hardest working man that you'veever seen, because I am.
I'm a darn hard worker, youknow.
And and I thought I couldoutwork alcohol and out, hustle
alcohol and out, think it, youknow, and and out, schmooze it
(09:07):
because great schmoozer, youknow, and liar, you know, and I
thought I could do all that andI could work on my steps and me,
me, me, cause I always tookcare of all my problems myself.
You know my entire life, youknow, and you know I always
thought I could do everything bymyself.
But that third step, I didn'tget it.
You know I didn't understandthat, you know it's.
(09:28):
You know I've got a seriousdisease.
You know doing it by yourself.
That's ridiculous.
To try and wrestle this diseasedown by myself, no flipping way
.
I've never seen anyone do it,never seen anyone do it without
help.
You know, and uh, um, and 10months later, I was back at
(09:51):
rehab, you know, with my tailbetween my legs and I really
thought I was working the steps.
I really thought I was doinggreat, but couldn't do it by
myself and I was.
You know, I was in the ditchwhen I went back.
It felt horrible, but then Ilearned, then I learned, just I
(10:12):
learned I couldn't do it bymyself.
And then I got that feeling I'mnot going to go ahead and
ramble on everything becausewe've got a lot to discuss, but
you can't do it by yourself,you've got to have help.
I definitely struggled, with itdiscussed but yeah you can't do
it by yourself.
Rich G (10:26):
You gotta have help.
You gotta have help.
I definitely struggled with it.
You know the idea of turninganything over to anything or
anybody.
You know, because I wasdefinitely raised in that
mindset, that you do it foryourself or it's not going to
get done.
If you rely on somebody else orsomething else, then it's not to
(10:47):
get, it's just not going to getdone, right, so you either do
something because you get itdone or it just doesn't happen.
Yep, and so you know,everything sounded good on paper
, but then a lot like you, youknow, once I got out of rehab
and I got kind of back out inthe real world and and the real
thing was like, yeah, when I gotback out in the real world and
(11:09):
life started coming at me again,that ability like when life was
simple and I was in the bubbleof rehab yeah, right, I was like
cool, turn things over, right.
Like they tell me when to getout of bed.
They tell me when I'm gonna eatlunch.
They tell me, you know, when toshow up to meetings.
They tell me all to get out ofbed.
They tell me when I'm going toeat lunch.
They tell me when to show up tomeetings.
They tell me all this kind ofstuff Abby's kind of handling
our life on the outside.
(11:30):
I'm turning my will over to God, right.
And then I get out into thereal world and I've got to pay
bills and I've got to go back towork and I've got to manage
people and I've got to do thisand I've got to do this and I've
got to do that.
And then I'm like, ah, thisstuff ain't happening the way
that I want it to Right.
And so I'm like, you know,start organizing things, that I
think how I think they should beorganizing my life, how I think
(11:51):
it should be, trying to makethings faster happen, faster
than maybe they should behappening.
You know, controlling everybodyand everything around me, like
like trying to Lord overeverything.
Man, you wanted to get throughthose steps too, oh yeah.
Pound through the steps, makesure my sponsor hears what he
needs to hear.
To give me, you know, the checkMark.
(12:13):
You know I'm just going to getthe A's and B's on my steps to
pass and graduate the programand, uh, you know, did the same
thing with my first therapist.
Right Like I wanted therapy,high fives, boom, boom,
graduated from therapy andrelapsed like a fucking madman.
(12:35):
Yeah, so it didn't get me veryfar.
Yeah, that's just how it wentfor me know.
Rich V (12:45):
You know, a thought that I had too is, uh um, I'm just
this kind of person too is uh um, just thinking.
You know, I have a higher powerand it was no problem.
You know, we'll talk about thisin a second, but I had no
problem coming knowing a higherpower.
I had a god in my life.
My, the way I go about thingsis you know, god, don't worry
(13:06):
about me.
You know you got other thingsto do.
I got it.
You know you can take care of alot of other things, but I got
it.
You know, don't worry about me.
And that's really how I felt.
You know, I don't want tobother you.
God, you know I got this.
You know, it's almost like I wasembarrassed to have to need
(13:27):
someone else, even God, to helpme.
It was almost embarrassingbecause I'd done everything.
The second, I walked out of myfolks' house, you know, when I
was 18, I walked out, went toschool.
I took care of myself eversince then and, you know, I was
(13:48):
just, I don't know.
I guess it was prideful.
Yeah, yeah, I guess it wasprideful.
You know, even though itdoesn't seem like boasting
prideful, it's just like I gotit.
You know, let me take care ofthis.
Abbie (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I mean you were.
You were the problem, I wasn'tthe problem.
Sure, you know what I mean.
Once you were out of the house,then I could easily stop myself
.
You know what I mean.
I was in control of myself.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Once, once you were out inrehab, then I could stop on my
(14:20):
own.
I had the power to stop.
I prayed that our life wasdifferent.
I was like I can't live likethis anymore.
So something had to change, andthat change was you.
Rich G (14:31):
It was you.
Abbie (14:32):
And once you were gone in rehabs and everything was
calmed down, I was like, oh yeah, I got this.
No, I'm good, you know what Imean.
I can stop whenever I want toand I don't need to, and I did I
stopped.
You've told me this before.
I'm sorry to interrupt.
Rich V (14:45):
No, it's okay.
Didn't you go through somehorrible detox by yourself?
Oh yeah.
Abbie (14:50):
That's what I'm saying.
I had a .33 on my DUI.
I am an alcoholic, I am nuts.
I'm insane.
I'm actually insane.
That's what I'm saying.
I pretended like he was theproblem.
Rich V (15:03):
When?
That's what I'm saying.
I pretended like he was theproblem.
When did you get the?
Abbie (15:05):
DUI, was it before In 2020.
So, yeah, right in COVID inJune 2020.
He hadn't gone to rehab yet.
Rich G (15:12):
She was why I started drinking.
Abbie (15:16):
Yeah, no, if you had a wife, no, but that's the thing.
If I think back of our drinking, we've been drinking really
heavily before we even movedhere.
You know what I mean, and I'vebeen and I and when we had a
before, even covid, I wasmarking bottles in my mind.
I was like counting shots ofour friends.
I'd be like, oh, oh, they'redrinking more than I, but we're
gonna need another bottle.
(15:36):
You know what I mean.
I'm already counting how much,how much liquor's left.
Rich G (15:40):
You know what I mean yeah, so it's like in my like
I'm already like doing thatbefore 2020 even was close by.
I mean, if she was across thehouse and she heard my glass
tink on the counter, she'd belike yeah, did you take a shot
without me?
Yeah, I would.
Abbie (15:54):
I would literally have eagle ears whatever you know owl
ears and be like did you take ashot?
I'm gonna get?
Yeah, I need a shot too.
Then, like go shot for shotwith him.
Yeah, like that was a good idea.
Rich V (16:09):
You know what I mean do you guys ever have bottles
hidden around the house so theother person didn't know you had
?
Abbie (16:14):
he did.
But it was like after I kind ofstopped, um, like drinking,
because he didn't just didn'twant me to know, but like we'd
always drink together.
So we don't really hide bottlesbecause like we just drink out
of the open, because we werejust drinking all the time, yeah
, but anyways, but yeah.
So like once he was gone I wastotally fine.
You know, I just stoppedwhenever I wanted and so I
didn't feel like it was god thathelped me.
(16:34):
You know what I mean.
But I went to aa and I wassupporting him and everything
was fine.
You know what I mean.
And then, like I said, I thinklast week, it was like then, all
of a sudden, when I startedthinking at work that I needed
to go get some whiskey on mylunch break, then I was like oh,
uh-oh and put it in my.
And then I, because somebodyhad somebody had said like I
(16:54):
don't know if I heard at ameeting or something like that.
I was like oh, yeah, so-and-so.
Like you know, I used to go outto my trunk and like drink like
booze on my lunch break andhide it in my trunk.
And I drink like booze and onmy lunch break and tied it in my
trunk and I was like, oh,that's a good idea.
I was like, and then I was like, oh, I can do that.
There's a.
There's a liquor store right bymy work and I was like, oh wow,
I'm actually considering thatthat is not a good idea.
That's not good you're reallyclose.
(17:16):
I was gonna say and richard'snot here and he's, you know, I'm
saying like he doesn't, he'snot at my work, so it's me, it
me, you know what I mean.
It's like yeah.
So then at some point I didrealize I was like, oh, I am.
And then I do need help becauseI'm I.
I did start to realize I havethe allergy and I have the
(17:37):
obsession of the mind which Ialways had.
But I just ignored it andpretended it wasn't there.
And once, like I said, once Istart thinking back.
I was marking bottles with thelittle, you know, little sharpie
in my mind of how full theywere, and then going back and be
like, okay, we're almost out,I'm gonna have to take more
shots before everybody else does, or we're gonna have to go get
more alcohol because there's notenough, because I'm not that
(17:59):
drunk yet yeah, you know I'msaying like I, I would do that
and I wouldn't tell anybody, butthat was in my brain and that
is insanity.
Yep, that is like the total.
Like, like you know, obsessionof the mind yeah like come on,
yeah, so um yeah, that's like Isaid.
Rich V (18:19):
I just would like, I think I was gaslighting myself
for real.
Abbie (18:21):
I know I've said that before, but like I really think
I was gaslighting myself forreal.
I know I've said that before,but like I really think I was
just completely oblivious towhat I was doing to myself in
some ways.
And then when, um like later Iwas just like once I finally
turned that corner.
I can think I had gone toenough where it kind of started
sinking in.
Did you get a sponsor?
Rich V (18:40):
Oh yeah, I had a sponsor pretty quick.
Yeah.
Abbie (18:44):
Yeah, because I'm doing all the things you know going
through the motions, being agood girl.
Rich G (18:50):
It was like a little bit after I got out of rehab the
first time.
Abbie (18:53):
Yeah, the first time A little bit after, maybe two
months after, something likethat, if that yeah.
Rich G (18:58):
Six weeks.
Abbie (18:58):
Yeah, so I was doing the things you know and and um, and
I really was on some leveltrying.
There was a level that I wastrying, but it wasn't with all
of me.
I was not trying with all of me, for sure.
And so then when I, I think Igot enough in my head to realize
I was like, oh, okay, maybethis is a thing you know, and
(19:20):
it's not just him and it is me,cause I was like you know, I was
like, nah, I was never going tobe like you know, my alcoholic
family members and stuff.
That was never going to be me.
Yeah, that's not me, no, it'snot me.
And so you know, that's whathappens sometimes.
Rich V (19:38):
I thought being an alcoholic is just a way of life.
Right way of life, right, it'sall my family you know,
functioning alcoholics.
I just was a functioningalcoholic, yeah, you know, I
just that's how I was until itjust got to that point?
There's just that point.
You know where.
It just doesn't work anymore.
I was doing great as analcoholic.
(19:58):
I wasn't.
Yeah, yeah it was going reallygood until it wasn't right,
until I had to have a six-packof beer on ice in my car and six
beers in my duffel bag that Ibrought into work and put in the
office with me, and you weresad about it.
Rich G (20:21):
You don't even want to drink it anymore.
Right, it's a problem.
Rich V (20:25):
You know that's when it's a problem you know, I liked
drinking it Until you didn't,until I was throwing up cold
beer in the morning.
Rich G (20:33):
Well, there you go.
That's when you don't like itanymore, right?
Abbie (20:37):
Oh man, when you start getting up in the morning and
you can't brush your teethbecause you'll throw up if you
brush can't, if you brush yourteeth, that is, that is not a
good place to just drink throughit man.
Rich G (20:49):
Yeah, that's not a good place, so I was gonna say like
um, you know, I was thinking,you know, back to when I first
tried to do the third step.
I think things would haveworked out differently if, if
god would have just worked on myparticular clock.
Yeah, I mean, I just needed tobend to my will a little bit,
(21:12):
just a little.
Hey, yo, I need this done by8.30.
You know you're on the clockRight and then like 8.30, okay,
fine.
I'll give you until 8.45.
And then if it wasn't done,like, who's gonna do it?
It's gotta be me.
Yeah, right, then I get realstressed out anyway.
Rich V (21:33):
Well then, you know, I, I went through the time of
kidding myself and and thinkingthat I was having god help me,
and then it being my own will,and you know, and, and then I
found myself back in rehab againfeeling like just hammered dog
shit.
You know, um, I'll cuss veryoften said, it just had to come
(21:56):
out, though, I mean becausethat's how you feel, that's how
I mean, and you don't feel good,yeah, and.
And then that's when it hit me.
I've told the story enoughtimes.
Just sitting there on the deckjust looking out over the grassy
fields with all the cows outthere, just an absolute gorgeous
(22:16):
day, late morning, and the sunshining on me, and all of a
sudden someone popped it in myhead.
There just was this feeling andit was a big one.
And you know, because I wastrying to wrap my head around
things, trying to wrap my headaround things, I just couldn't.
(22:39):
You know, I was detoxed aboutthree days.
And what am I doing?
What am I missing?
You know, I really want to besober.
I really want to be sober, andwhat am I doing?
What am I missing?
You know, I really want to besober, I really want to be sober
and I'm just failing.
And then I asked God, what am Idoing?
And all of a sudden I asked Godand then I got an answer.
You know, and God's answersusually are pretty subtle, you
(23:04):
know, and it just seemed like itwas a smack upside the head,
though in God's subtle way, itjust, you know, it's just sort
of I was feeling so much betterand I had this warm, just
beautiful late morning sun on meand all of a sudden I just
realized I had just asked Godfor help.
And I of a sudden I justrealized I just asked God for
(23:25):
help and I felt better.
And I felt better when I askedGod for help and I just sort of
thought I wasn't asking God forhelp enough.
And you know, and I really hadit, you know, first, you know I
had put together what I thoughtGod was.
You know what I thought, andThen I really felt, really felt
(23:50):
what my God was, and it just allcame together.
I mean, you know we all wentthrough.
I mean I went through, I wentthrough Catholic catechism when
I was real young and before Igot married, you know, I went
through confirmation and soforth, and so I had that God in
my mind, you know.
And but I just want to refinethings.
(24:11):
I mean it says God, you know ofyour own choice, understanding,
and you know I just had anunderstanding and you know what
a surprise with me.
But just, god is love.
God is this to me.
God is this ultra love.
You know, because you know youthink of the most powerful thing
in the world love.
You know, because you know youthink of the most powerful thing
(24:33):
in the world, you know.
And what beats love?
I mean fear.
Fear doesn't beat love.
You know love beats crap out offear.
You know any type of hell, oryou know demon or whatever you
think of, but when you think ofwhen you've felt the most love
you've ever felt in your life,that beats the crap out of
anything, beats the crap out ofany high I've ever had, you know
.
Or you know just any ego youknow I've ever come across, or
(24:56):
myself, I mean love beats thesnot out of all that.
You know the feeling of love,the power of love, and and that
started forming in me.
You know exactly I was puttingthe pieces together for me and
it just all of a sudden hit melike a freight train, and you
know it.
(25:17):
Just I just thought you knowwhat I'm in, all in Chips are in
, you know I just that was time,you know, just give it up to
God.
And that's when things startedgoing well, that's when life
just started going so muchbetter.
You know, and it might not beall the things in my life were
going that much better.
(25:38):
You go through hardships, likeanyone's life is, but it's the
way of living is so much better.
The way you live is just somuch better.
It just is.
It just is.
I've been through so many roughtimes being sober and I've got
God on my side.
Rich G (25:58):
And I've got love.
You get through it.
Yeah, that kind of brings me tosomething I was telling you
guys.
It's funny, I've read, that wasmy soapbox.
Rich V (26:06):
Yeah, no, you did great that was awesome.
Rich G (26:09):
I've read this step like I mean I don't know how many
hundreds of times.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybethousands at this point, right,
yeah, over the last four years,and I've read it so many times.
But today it just like hit me alittle bit differently, right,
and it doesn't say that we willgoing to turn ourselves over to
(26:30):
the care of a power greater thanourselves.
And it just like hit a littledifferent today when, like, I
read it like with a little moreintention today, I was like, oh,
the care of a power greaterthan myself, right?
Or of the God that I understand.
And I was like you know, it's.
It's funny because, yes, I'msaying, like you know, here's my
will in my life, but I'mturning it over to your care,
(26:53):
not to your control, right?
So like it just feels better,right, like it just makes you
feel a little warmer with it, asopposed to like, ok, just like,
point me where you want me togo, I'm your minion.
Right Going to be cared for, notjust Right cared for not just
right, it's more like somebody'sgonna hold it and value it and
(27:15):
cherish it, and just put itwhere it's supposed to go and
care for it.
Yeah, as it guides you, youknow.
So it just feels better tothink of it that way and be
careful with it, yeah right and,and I think I definitely think
when I listen to it.
Guide you though sure, but Idefinitely think when, when I
first ran into this, I was likegreat, something going to
control me.
Now, screw this, everybody justwants to control me and tell me
(27:37):
what to do.
Like I said, I definitelyalready live my life in this way
.
I concede everything to Godevery morning because it does
lead me to a greater peace, likeI get to live in peace today.
But today, when I read it, Iwas like, yeah, the care of God,
the care of my higher power,right, because when I turn it
(28:00):
over, it's going to be cared for, it's not going to be taken
advantage of, because if youturned it over to another human
being, it would be takenadvantage of, even if I turned
it over to my loving andbeautiful wife.
Rich V (28:11):
Human nature is not going to care for it, but your
higher power is going to.
That's a pretty dark thing ofhuman nature, though.
Rich G (28:21):
No, but even accidentally, it's true of me
right, like eventually you'regoing to take advantage of it,
even intentionally,unintentionally, right, you'll
use it for your own benefit.
It lose it whatever, you knowanyway.
So it just struck me differentand so, like what you were
(28:42):
sharing kind of uh flowed intothat.
You know it's truly about thecare, like it's going to be
handled with care.
You know it's got the fragilesticker on it right.
Rich V (28:50):
And you know, whenever I let God care for it instead of
me, that's it right.
Things go Okay.
I can see that Instead ofwhenever I let God take care of
it maybe not, but whenever I letGod care for it and I listen to
God's care, caring love yeahthere you go, yeah yeah.
Rich G (29:15):
So when you stick it, stick your own self out there,
you end up feeling like hammereddog shit, like you said before.
So you better have just leaveit in god's care and yeah,
nothing comes along to hammeryou.
Yeah, so anyway um yeah.
So I just thought it was reallycool that, no matter how many
hundreds and hundreds of timesthat I've read that, that it
still hit me different when Iwas putting together some notes
(29:36):
for today.
Rich V (29:37):
Well, I guess that's a really loving statement put out
that way.
Rich G (29:44):
Yeah, it's much more gentle and kind and caring to
think about it that way, andkind and caring, you know to
think about it that way.
Something else that I wrotedown that I kind of enjoy is you
know, I have heard often I haveno idea where the quote
originates, right but I heardoften in 12-step meetings is
surrender is not defeat, it'sjust joining the winning side.
(30:07):
I love that one yeah right, sosurrender is not defeat, it's
just joining the winning side.
So do you have any thoughts onthat?
Abbie (30:17):
Hmm, Put you on the spot.
Well, I guess I never.
That's what I actually haven'treally heard.
Oh really, yeah, that's really.
I haven't heard that one much.
I do like it but I haven't heardit much, but I always just feel
like, um, I always think of,like surrendering.
As to me, it's always.
(30:37):
Everybody always thinks of it asas as, as, like giving away
something, but it's reallycounterintuitive because you
really give it away and then youget like so much more and you
actually get a full, a full life, like, like you said, joining
the winning team, but like it'sreally just so much more than
you think it's going to be,because you, when you're, when
(30:59):
you don't surrender, you're justliterally fighting against
everything all day, every day,mind people, you know, um, you
know everything just all day.
You're fighting against, becauseyou have to work against the
flow of god or whatever you'retrying to do, your own will.
If you surrender, then you getto work with the flow of god and
(31:22):
then you end up you just like,like I think we've said it
before it's like floating on ariver and you just get to float.
Instead of having to, like youknow, paddle up river because of
your own will, because your ownwill is not the way the river
is going, you're trying toblindly navigate yourself yeah
there and because you me, as oneperson, I don't know where the
(31:42):
river's going.
I didn't build a river, you know.
I didn't create the river, youknow, and I'm one speck on a
humongous river, you know Ican't make the river turn
different ways, and so that's.
I love that quote but, like, asfar as surrender, it's like I
really it's such a big deal, youknow, in this program,
(32:04):
especially when people are soscared of it, they're terrified
of it Because they really thinkthey're going to lose themselves
.
But you don't have to lose yourpersonality, you just have to
lose your fighting.
Rich V (32:17):
Right.
Abbie (32:17):
You have to lose your fighting of what you think is
the right way to do everything.
Rich G (32:22):
But I think that's kind of the thought right Is if
you're, you know, if you're likethe soldier that's at war,
right, and you've got the twosides that are fighting and then
the losing side that is clearlygoing to lose.
Right, You're the losing battle.
Rich V (32:36):
Right, You're in a losing battle, especially if
you're fighting for someone whoyou don't like.
Let's say you're fighting forHitler, regardless of that right
.
Rich G (32:46):
But you're in the losing battle and it's evident that
you're in the losing battle,right, and you surrender, right,
and it's the end of the war.
Then what happens when yousurrender?
Typically you get to like, youget to just go home and live
your life right and yeah, I mean, you may not.
You know your government andsome things in your life might
change, but you do get to justgo home and you're no longer on
(33:09):
the battlefield, starving, dyingdying et cetera right.
So like it might not be that youjoin the winning side right,
but you also have the war's overright, you're not getting shot
at anymore.
Rich V (33:21):
That's pretty cool Stuff blowing up on you, right, yeah.
Rich G (33:25):
So at least the war's over.
But yeah, I mean, I've heardthat several times in meetings,
you know Well.
Rich V (33:28):
You mean I've heard that several times in meetings, you
know Well you know, surrenderingto me, I mean the jock in me,
you know, I played a lot ofsports, the mercy rule, and
surrendering is just notsomething you do.
I mean, I spent my whole lifenot surrendering, you know.
And the thought of surrenderingat first, you know, was, you
(33:49):
know you don't surrender.
But then, when you surrenderthe right way, it's just so
soothing oh, get all this off myback and get all these lies.
That's the one thing I keepcoming back to when I talk about
it.
When I got to surrender allthose lies, yeah, oh, just give
those up and make amends to allthose people that I lied to.
(34:11):
Well, that steps down the road,I know.
But you know when I got to justsurrender all that stuff and
just start.
But right now, you know, I gotright now in this step, I got to
formulate what God is to me.
Rich G (34:25):
So I feel like one of the really big benefits of
turning things over in my lifeto the care of God is that it's
made room for so many otherthings.
Right, because I would have allof these things that, quite
frankly, I couldn't control, butI was trying to, but I'd have
them all on my mind, right?
And they would consume mythoughts and my time and that
(34:47):
would leave me no time to carefor myself and to love myself
and to care for and to loveothers.
So, by turning over some or allof those things that would just
burden me, and by being able tolearn to turn those over to the
care of God or a higher power,I freed myself up Right, so now
(35:09):
I'm able to spend time on thingslike self-care, which I
literally love.
Don't think I ever did until Igot sober.
Abbie (35:17):
He didn't.
Rich G (35:18):
Right, I don't think.
Abbie (35:20):
I mean self-care, like.
Rich G (35:21):
I mean, personal hygiene was probably about as close as
I got to self-care Right andlike, yeah, there was just never
like.
Relax, what is that Right?
Relax, how do I relax?
I go drink Right.
Rich V (35:33):
So like that was it so.
Rich G (35:35):
but now, like life is completely different.
Right, like, I can sit and Ican listen to people when they
need to talk, and I can taketime for myself just to sit and
be quiet when I need to and letmy mind calm down.
Sometimes that's spent turningmy will and my life over to the
(35:55):
care of God.
Right, like, sometimes that'sme just stopping when I am
freaking out about something andgoing like, wait, this problem
doesn't even have to be mine.
I can actually just say,actually, it's not my problem,
give it up.
So that was one thing I wasthinking about today, too.
Is that it's freed me up whereI can love myself and love
others, where before that was ahuge block for me because my
(36:17):
thoughts were consumed with somuch stuff that, quite frankly,
I couldn't control.
Rich V (36:22):
You were so far away from serenity.
Serenity was a concept that youhad no idea of.
You know, because what comeswith our fun disease is that we
never finish anything Becausewe've got lies that are clouding
(36:42):
our head.
And then we have the obsessionof getting more booze and how to
go about it without otherpeople finding out or knowing
that we're we're alcohol, we'reloaded at the time, and so
that's on our mind.
Okay, make sure they don't knowI'm loaded.
Okay, but I can get booze overhere and I can still do it
without people knowing that I'mdrunk.
Abbie (37:02):
And so Don't act drunk, don't act drunk, don't act drunk
, don't act, drunk.
Rich V (37:06):
But isn't it cool being.
Abbie (37:07):
And then you're like oh, can I have the?
Oh, shit, I act drunk.
Rich V (37:11):
Okay, yeah, but isn't it cool that I'm drunk and no one
knows I'm drunk how?
Abbie (37:15):
am I doing?
Rich V (37:16):
Yeah, okay, but then, oh , I lied about this.
I've got to keep that lie going, okay, but oh, I've got to
finish this.
That I started earlier.
Yeah, but I want to get thisdone, let me get this done first
, I'll finish that later.
But oh, I want to have a drink,and so your mind, so you don't
get anything done.
Rich G (37:35):
Everything's half-assed done or not done, and it just
keeps going in a pattern, andthen, once you're sober, you can
get stuff done because you'rejust saying god, give me a hand
but even before, like, like I'meven thinking, like before I
reached that point when I wouldget home at night and I would
like be sitting there andthinking about my work day and
(37:57):
I'd be like you know, that guyRich just won't do the things
that I want, that I need him todo, and like, how am I going to
get him to do what I need him todo?
How am I going to make him dowhat I need him to do?
Rich V (38:09):
I've really got to figure this out.
What's going to make him?
Rich G (38:12):
perform the way that I need him to perform.
And then I've also got to thinkabout Abby and what's going to
make her do what I need her todo.
And my boss is a jackass.
He's not doing his job, so Ihave to figure out how to do his
job too.
And then, oh crap, my mom'scalling.
You know what?
I'm not going to answer for herbecause I've got to figure out
how to make Rich do what heneeds to be doing, abby doing
what she needs to be doingcomplaining.
(38:32):
It was just like I had to becontrolling.
I'm talking about well before Imet you, my man like I know you
experienced some of it, butthat was like my life from the
(38:53):
time that I got into high school.
I feel like right like like mywhole life.
Like was that level of like,stress and control right, like I
had to be plugging in, like Iwas working the switchboard
right?
and like I had to control otherpeople control other people, the
(39:14):
things that were happeningaround me.
You know who was driving in mylane down the road.
I needed to be able to controland predict all of it.
I needed to be able to work outthe quick math that would
predict the future.
I needed to predict the futureand fix the past Right now.
(39:35):
I needed to be able to do allof it.
That's tough.
Abbie (39:44):
I've got anxiety right now.
Right, like I needed to be ableto do all of it.
And, man, like that's tough.
Oh, I got.
I've got anxiety right now, Ihave anxiety for you.
I'm like but that's how.
Rich G (39:49):
That's how I functioned man like that's how, that's how
like.
Abbie (39:52):
I was there with you.
Rich G (39:53):
I feel that that's how high strung and high wired I was
for so long, and I mean yousuffered some of it because you
would see, like, like you wouldtry to help me with something,
I'd be like just give it to meLike, no, you're not doing it
right.
Why are you doing dishes inthat order?
Don't do dishes in that order.
Rich V (40:12):
What are you doing?
I remember you telling me aboutthat, though.
Right Well you first startedgetting sober, you complained
about how she did dishes.
Rich G (40:19):
It's because I'm and I'm still a work in progress today.
That's when you first started,not now.
Well, today I'll go.
You know, I noticed you'revacuuming like that.
Okay, I'm going to just shut up.
Thank you for vacuuming.
So I still it's still a work inprogress, right, but before it
was like constant and so likewhen I say that it was a gift to
(40:43):
be able to turn that over, likeonce I let go of even a small
portion of that level of peacethat I started to feel was
amazing and and, like you know,I was telling Abby, like I was
struggling with someperfectionism and some different
things.
(41:03):
I think I may have been sharingthat with you, like this last
week, yeah, and like I felt someof that come back.
But I know what to do with itnow, right, and I know how to
recognize it and I know what itwill do to me, right, so I can
manage it so much better becauseI've learned how to like turn
it over and I learned how tolove other people and not let
that part of me, because that'san addiction too for me.
(41:26):
You know that's something, thatthat's just another form of
addictive behavior for me.
So you know, learning to letthat and that's really is
turning that care over to a God,a power greater than myself.
Like you know, whateversomebody out there might believe
in the rhythm of the universe,the flow, like you were saying
(41:49):
earlier, to actually live in theflow, you know, that's how I
describe my life right now,right, is that?
Like I'm just the river flowingdown the hill?
Rich V (41:57):
You know that's showing that you're loving yourself.
Yeah, Because you're lettingyourself be hill.
You know that's showing thatyou're loving yourself.
Yeah, because you're lettingyourself be free.
You let yourself love yourself.
You'll get yourself cornered inthis.
You know unstopping.
You know garbage.
I mean, quite frankly, who?
Rich G (42:16):
wouldn't drink, and if I get myself feeling like that
right, if I allow that back inmy life, that's, that's, that's,
that's, that's, no, no.
Rich V (42:28):
Yeah.
Rich G (42:28):
That's an immediate relapse for me, right?
So I have to be very aware ofwhen I and I have to talk about
it, right?
I was telling you it felt good,I talk to Abby about it.
I talk to the men in my churchgroup about it.
Take the power out of that.
Yeah, I have to talk about thatbecause I have to be.
I have to keep that right infront of me when.
Rich V (42:44):
I'm feeling it.
Rich G (42:49):
Because that is a living , breathing relapse in my life,
right there.
But it's that ability to turnit over, to share it, turn it
over, put it out there, let itbe known, and it dies, man,
that's got to feel good, it'sgood.
Oh yeah, that's a good learningwhat to do with it, because I
never knew what to do with ituntil sobriety.
You know, and that's that'swhere the 12 steps are such a
gift, you know, and that's why Ilook at it as such a gift, like
(43:10):
, that's why you know, like, uh,you know, I've said before that
I always thought that whenpeople would like in a meeting
say like I'm a grateful addictor I'm a grateful alcoholic, I'm
like you're dumbass, right.
But but now I kind ofunderstand it, because I would
have never put the effort intoworking these steps.
They would change my life somuch had I not imploded my life
with addiction and alcohol yeah,right yeah, oh this, yeah, this
(43:35):
has saved my life right
Rich V (43:36):
absolutely saved my life .
Yeah, so I mean I'm not beingdramatic, but with this disease
it has completely saved my life.
Yeah, it's made me a personthat most people who have my
disease do not act like I do.
My doctor was telling me thismost people that have my disease
, they just sit in a dark cornerand watch TV and do not talk to
(43:59):
anyone, do do not the rest oftheir life, they just just sit
and wallow away and that's justhow they spend the rest of their
life because they just can'thandle being in pain 24 hours a
day and it just consumes themand they just sit and sit and
whenever they talk to the doctor, it's just to get their pain
medication.
Or, you know, they talk to atherapist and therapists can't
(44:20):
do anything to help them all.
Yeah, it's, it's.
It just ruins their lifecompletely and they don't
communicate or anything likethat.
And I'm the only person he'scome across that actually leads
any type of life.
You know, because of 12 steps,but you know it's just because
you know I've learned to lovemyself and I've learned to have
(44:42):
beautiful, loving people in mylife.
You know, and and I got toformulate this, god at the third
step.
Sorry to come around, but it isreally seriously come around to
that.
It started with that.
That feeling, that love that,all the concepts that have been
going through my head and myheart for a long time, it all
(45:03):
came together.
That love, that power that Ilearned at the third step I got
to have all through my steps andstuff like that the rest of my
life.
I turned my will over to thecare.
Of my Life just got better.
Abbie (45:20):
Yeah Well, this podcast is just what I needed.
Yeah, good, yeah, feel bettertonight.
Yeah well, I just needed to bereminded that I turned it all
over.
Yeah, because I've been havingsome rough times and I keep
praying about it.
But I keep not turning it over.
I keep praying about it but notsaying it's yours.
I just keep saying, you know,please do this or please do that
(45:42):
, but I don't say it's yours andthat is not what I am doing.
That and that's what I need todo.
Rich G (45:51):
That was a great reminder.
Abbie (45:52):
Nice Subtle difference there there is a very subtle
difference, yeah, and then Ijust felt my heart get lighter
when I thought about doing that,because I was like then I don't
have to sit here and stressabout it, because I've been
stressing about a whole bunch ofthings that.
I talked to you and, again, likeI talked to you, I talked to my
mom, I talked to my girls atchurch and my other girls at my
program.
But it's like but, and that wasgreat, I'm glad I did that too.
(46:15):
But, just like you, I'm tryingto keep ahead of my behavior,
because I've had my addictivebehaviors come out, with my
anger and frustration andimpatience, and those are my,
those are my past behaviors andI don't want to be like that.
And so I've been veryfrustrated lately and really
(46:37):
like short tempered and I'm Idon't want to be that way and
that's the one thing I wasn'tdoing is surrendering it.
I wasn't doing that, I wastalking about it.
I'm praying about it, but notsurrendering it yeah, you know,
there is.
Rich G (46:51):
There is, and I say, a subtle difference, because
there's a subtle differencebetween hey God, you know what's
going on, yeah, this and thisand this, versus hey God, I've
got a problem that I'm going tomake your problem.
Abbie (47:03):
Yeah, and then I'm going to walk away from it.
No, I really just realizedright now.
When we were talking, I waslike, oh my goodness, that's
what it was.
Rich G (47:09):
Yeah, and yeah, of course it's like yeah, that's
what I needed to do it stillexists, but if you turn it over
and then turn it over sometimesyou have to turn it over again
It'll be like it's not mineanymore.
Abbie (47:24):
I don't have to think about it, I don't have to try to
figure it out, because that'swhat I've been doing, that's why
I've been so stressed out,because I'm trying to figure it
out, and it's been turned overto the care journey as far as
that goes, like it's been.
I think my whole journey, withthe whole process, has been this
(47:45):
gradual thing.
I didn't have, as I'vementioned before, I've, never, I
didn't have this lightningmoment, because I've had a guy
in my life, my whole life.
I never, I never said I didn'tbelieve in god.
I never said I didn't.
He's always been with me andbut I left.
I left for a while and didn'tcommunicate with my God, my
higher power, and then I cameback.
And so now, once I start doingthe actions, little by little,
(48:11):
then I start seeing the results,I start seeing the promises.
But it's not this big bang ofthe situation like other people
have who haven't had it before.
You know what I mean.
I just see these little kind oflike daisies popping up out of
the ground.
You know what I mean.
Just little tiny things, but Isee it.
But again, I have to be payingattention, I have to be, you
know, aware of what's going on.
(48:32):
I have to keep my eyes open,because if I close my eyes and I
say, oh, nothing's happening, Ican't feel it, I can't see it
because I'm being resentful thatI'm not going to notice it,
then my program will not be good.
It's so subtle.
Yeah, because I, because I dohave to, because I'm not having
the flashy things like everybodyelse not everybody else, some
people I have to be I have topay more attention to see my
(48:58):
promises, to see my blessingssometimes, and that's okay, that
is okay.
Yeah, but sometimes they arebigger than just a little type
of thing.
So, yeah, Awesome.
Rich G (49:09):
Yeah Well, I'm glad that the show fed you tonight.
Yeah, it did.
We like that, we like that.
We all get that once in a while, whenever there's two people,
there's always a meeting, so wehave a meeting today.
Rich V (49:19):
That's a good meeting.
Yeah, that is awesome.
Meeting it just yeah, it's justfun.
It's just fun I.
Whenever you get to sit aroundand talk about, and especially
when you get talked about higherpower, yeah, you know it, just
it.
You can't help but enjoy it.
You know it just.
It gets to be nice and raw, youknow, and inside of it, and
(49:40):
then you get the you know, feelwhat you're feeling about it.
That rubs off on you, you know,and the more we can feel that
and get in practice of rubbingthat off on others you know
anyone you walk by and say hi toyou.
You feel I say hi to so manypeople during the day and share
(50:02):
that and then it makes thatfeeling more powerful.
You can't give it away and haveless.
The more you give it away, themore power you have.
Do you understand?
The more you try to help outother people and everything, the
(50:25):
more you help, the more loveand God you have in you.
Yeah, it's not something thatyou give away and have less of.
You give away and have more ofSort of a karma thing, right,
yeah, give good, you get good,right.
And whenever I'm down and I'mfeeling just oh, you know, I
just give some love and boom,you feel better.
(50:48):
That's why service is so good,right, yeah, yeah.
That's why being of service isjust awesome.
Rich G (50:53):
Well, that was a fun show, guys.
So you know, last Last coupleof questions, as usual, Progress
not perfection.
Rich V (51:05):
What's something that you've been working on lately?
Yeah, I've got some issues withmy legs, okay, from the job
that I've ran restaurants for 38years and I was on my legs 10,
12 hours a day.
Plus I'm kind of a big guy andso so my the pumps in my legs
(51:28):
don't work very well with mywith blood, and so I'm seeing
doctors and getting some woundsthat I have on my legs healed up
and and maybe getting someoperations on my legs to get
them better.
So that's what I've beenworking on right now.
Okay, yeah.
Abbie (51:49):
I think just what I talked about I'm trying to be
like just aware of my feelings.
And now I mean I had kind of anepiphany during this time, but
like just really payingattention to that, because in my
younger years I would have kindof let my old behaviors take
over and my mind would have beendepressed and my whole.
I would have just kind of letit overtake me.
You know, with depression andum, my feelings just be in
(52:10):
control.
And so that's what I wasworking on.
This last like probably threeweeks is like not letting it
take over.
You know what I mean?
Like I felt, didn't feel good.
I felt like I was fightingsomething, whatever you want to
call it, my addiction, the devilwhatever you want to call it it
doesn't matter, but I wasfighting against it and I was
(52:32):
aware that I was fightingagainst it, as opposed to just
letting it take over and notcaring who I hurt or how it hurt
me, and so that's specificallywhat I'm working on right now
with this.
I'm hoping if, now that I cangive it over, maybe that will
clear up what's going on, yeah,good oh love that.
Rich G (52:52):
Um, you know, I think for me, um, for me, it's like
kind of like I was sayingearlier, right, it's like being
able just getting progressivelybetter at recognizing when I'm
starting to feel a little funkyor a little something that I
shouldn't be feeling, butgetting much, much better at
(53:14):
sharing that with the peoplearound me that will support me,
right, being open, being openabout it, sharing it out there,
and I feel like it's just soeffective that when you put
something out there in the worldthat you're feeling and you
tell it to people that willsupport you on it, that it does,
like you said, rich, it takesthe power out of it, right.
So I think that's a reallypowerful gift, you know, to be
(53:36):
able to work with.
Abbie (53:37):
Yeah, oh, I did have one more thing, yeah, you know, to
be able to work with.
Yeah, um, oh, I did one morething, yeah, um, also trying to
not like legitimately not carewhat other people think of me,
but not in like a negative way,in a way of like, if I want to
do something, I do it, justbecause I want to do it sure you
know what I mean?
um, because I've had a lot of mylife and I know a lot of people
(53:59):
feel this way too.
But I've had a lot of my lifeand I know a lot of people feel
this way too.
But I've had a lot of my lifewhere I have just been too
scared to do something because Iwas just so like somebody's
going to think of this or that,or they're going to think of me
this way or that way, and I justwould always have this little
back of my head person going youshouldn't do that.
You're going to look stupid,they're going to hate you.
Everybody's gonna think you'redumb, you know and it's bad talk
(54:19):
my whole life and I've really,really been able to squash a lot
of that in the last few years.
However, it's still there, sure?
So, um, that's what I did.
That's why I did that on lastfriday night.
I rode in my can't pull and Ilooked like a real silly goose,
but it was really fun.
And I was on there for 1.1seconds and I fell off
immediately, but but it wasreally fun.
Nice and so yeah, but I reallywanted to do it.
(54:43):
It was one of my bucket listsand I always wanted to do it
when I was drunk and I ended updoing it when I was sober.
Rich G (54:48):
There, you go.
Abbie (54:49):
So that was kind of fun, that's cool.
Rich V (54:52):
I want to get on something that you said about
when you're giving out thesethings for people to help you.
Yeah, now see, you have helpedthose people as well, you know,
because you give them a chanceto help you.
Sure, sure, yeah, absolutely.
So.
Everyone loves to help someoneelse.
It's reciprocal.
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's asymbiotic relationship.
(55:14):
Right there you go.
Absolutely.
Rich G (55:17):
And then the other one is what's the greatest gift
you've been given recently byrecovery?
You know, I had one justyesterday.
I kind of shared with you guysbefore the show that I've become
a little active in theon-campus club students for
recovery at SRJC, and yesterdaywas club day.
It was kind of cool because wehad a table where we got to be,
(55:38):
you know, sharing someinformation with people and of
course you know it, someinformation with people, and of
course you know it's a college,right, and so like I'm an old
guy at the college but there's alot of young kids and you know
they're coming by the table andwe've got, I mean, of course you
know students for recovery, butthis particular club recognizes
pretty much whatever you'redoing right.
(56:02):
So like harm reduction, ifyou're trying to do less.
Reduction if you're trying todo less.
If you're trying to learn about, you know, using clean needles.
If you're trying to learn, youknow it's really about anything
right.
Um, learning how to use safely,um, you know, if you're on
medically assisted treatment, ifyou're using, uh, you know
methadone or any any, basicallywhatever recovery looks like to
you.
You're welcome to come in andshare with us and be part of the
(56:23):
club.
Part of what we do is we takeand we have a large supply of
Narcan, which is to reverse theeffects of an opioid overdose.
We also have these little packsthat are for opioid testing
strips.
Say, you're buying press pillsof an opioid overdose and we
also have these little packsthat are for uh, opioid testing
strips, right.
So like say, you're buyingpress pills of xanax, right, and
(56:46):
you crush up the pill in thepack and you put a little water
in it, you put the test strip init and it will tell you if it's
.
It won't tell you that it isxanax, but it will tell you if
it is fentanyl, all right,that's good right so and that's
super common, right?
because everything's laced withfentanyl.
That's good, that's supercommon because everything's
laced with fentanyl, becauseit's super cheap to produce.
If you think you're gettingXanax but you're actually
getting fentanyl, this will tellyou.
(57:07):
You have to crush up the wholepill, because they can just put
a few flecks of fentanyl inthere and be giving you a lot of
fentanyl.
Anyway, we're sharing withthese college students and it
can start off like a little bitof an odd conversation, but then
you tell them look, I'm nottrying to keep you from partying
, I'm trying to keep you safe.
So if you put your xanax inthere, because they're like the
(57:29):
whole pill, right, so put yourxanax in there, crush it up,
dump your water in there, testit, and if it tests negative,
then just dump the water in yourmouth and you get your xanax,
you know I like we're out heretrying to educate you and save
lives rightand then we show them how to use
narcan right, we, we explainwhat opioid overdose looks like
(57:49):
and all that.
And we have like several kidscome by like, oh, I party all
the time.
Or like, hey, my brother, mybrother is a heroin user.
Or you know, we have this onegirl come by, she's like I got a
raves all the time and she likegrabbed like four narcan kits
and like a whole handful of thetest strips and I'm like yeah,
she's going to rave.
I'm like go girl right, but likeit felt good to like do you
(58:12):
know, it feels like you'rereally doing a service and like
you know who knows you like youknow but, it's funny.
Abbie (58:18):
It's like the new condom.
You know what I mean.
We have condoms at the table,we do.
We used to be like condoms waslike a little.
You know, that's like the newthing right keeping people safe,
you know, yeah, it's not edgyanymore yeah
Rich G (58:30):
we have like a whole bag of condoms there too like yeah,
um, but yeah and, but you know.
So that was just really cool tobe able to like educate people
on it and like tell them how touse Narcan and tell them about
the Good Samaritan Law, becauseof course they're like, well,
what if the cops show up and I'mlike, look, they can't arrest
you.
You're protected by law, right,if you've saved somebody from
an overdose, even if you'recarrying drugs and they're
(58:52):
carrying drugs, they'll leaveyou alone.
They just want to save lives.
So, anyway, that was reallyrewarding to get to do that.
Rich V (58:57):
Yeah, definitely yeah.
Rich G (59:00):
So that was a gift and I got to be there because I'm in
recovery.
Rich V (59:06):
That's awesome.
Oh man, look at all thesewindows doors that have opened
up for you.
Rich G (59:11):
Right, just fun stuff, man, just great stuff.
I get to do all kinds of coolstuff because you know I've
changed my direction in life, sothat's pretty good.
Yeah, and you know I've changedmy direction in life, so that's
pretty good, yeah, and whereyou were?
Rich V (59:21):
Yeah, what a huge three man 180.
Abbie (59:24):
Good stuff, yeah, I get to um I'm I am still going
through a fifth step with mysponsee and it's just really um,
it's amazing.
Rich V (59:33):
So that's so I, yeah there.
Yeah, there's there's.
Yeah, that's yeah I it's hardto say yeah it's just there's
not many.
Abbie (59:42):
I mean, it's rough, of course, but it's just like to to
have the you know the releaseof, of, just you know getting
her to be able to push throughall of that.
You know what I mean'd go pastit.
Rich G (59:57):
To be their person.
Rich V (01:00:00):
It's pretty special.
Share that love.
That's amazing.
Sure, that's just so much lovedoing that, so much of that
stuff coming off of them.
It's visuals, you can justwatch it happen.
Yeah, alright, if you have anyquestions about today's show or
anything else recovery.
Watch it happen.
Rich G (01:00:20):
Yeah, yeah All right, well, yeah, if you have any
questions about today's show oranything else recovery related,
please feel free to reach out inthe comments section, facebook,
instagram or email the riches.
You can find all of thatinformation in the episode
description.
We'll release episodes on the1st and 15th of each month and
we look forward to having youjoin us for future content.
We'll continue working down theseries of steps, so our next
(01:00:46):
steps episode will be steps fourand five together.
Rich V (01:00:50):
Great present.
Rich G (01:00:51):
Yeah, abby was just talking about four and five, so
we'll be exploring that contenttogether, and so thank you guys
for hanging out with me tonight.
Four and five Still more 5,still more fun, still more fun.
That's great.
Thanks to our audience forbeing part of our sobriety today
, thank you.
Thank you so much for giving ussome of your time.
(01:01:12):
We really hope you gotsomething out of today's episode
.
We would be honored if youwould like and share the episode
or leave a review or commentwith your takeaways.
Don't forget to subscribe totune into future episodes.
Have a great day.
Addiction to Purpose with Riches and Recovery
welcomes you to our audience.
We hope that you enjoy today'sshow and will join in the
discussion by dropping a reviewor comment.
It would be tremendous if youwould like rate and share our
content, or even subscribe toour channel.
Please be aware that not allconversations on this show are
suitable for children.
Additionally, we may talk aboutthings such as sexual abuse,
(00:24):
domestic violence and drug oralcohol abuse.
If you feel that these thingsmay trigger you, please do not
tune in.
Finally, if you are a heavydaily user of alcohol or drugs
and are considering stopping,please consult a medical
professional for assistance.
Welcome to the conversation.
(00:48):
Hi, welcome back for anotherepisode of Addiction to Purpose.
We're glad you joined us andwe're going to continue on with
the second episode of our Stepsseries.
The last episode we talkedabout Steps 1 and 2, where we
talked about admittingpowerlessness and
unmanageability in our life, aswell as recognizing that a power
greater than us would be thething that could take us out of
(01:10):
that.
Today, we're going to beconfining the discussion to just
one step.
The next step in the series isgoing to be step three, and you
know it can be a pretty heavyone, pretty important one, along
the way, and so we're going todig into that and just spend
this whole episode on that onestep.
But first, of course, we'lltalk about who we are.
My name's Rich G and this is mybuddy, rich V.
Abbie (01:34):
Abby G and.
Rich G (01:35):
Abby, so you know I forgot to prepare us for this
before we jumped into this.
But what do we have that we'regrateful for today?
Oh man, so much On the spot.
I know you should be able toshoot from the hip on this, come
on.
Abbie (01:51):
Yeah, you know what I was grateful for the rain today.
I really love the rain and Idon't know, I just always love
it.
It's real cozy when you'reinside and outside.
I even like walking in the rain.
Rich G (02:01):
Yeah, yeah, I noticed you woke up a little slower this
morning I did, I did, but I dolove the rain staying a little
cozy in bed.
Rich V (02:08):
Uh well, me what I'm grateful for.
I don't want to lose my mancard for this, but my cat, you
know it was your man notice.
You know, um, I had to get upreally early today and I was
really flipping tired and I gothome and I just wanted to rest a
little while and there my catcomes over near me and we we had
the little space heater on andwe just kind of kicked it and
(02:29):
watched a movie together and Irested and stuff and it was nice
.
It was nice and relaxing andwarm and yeah, it was pretty
cool.
So, yeah, that's for Otis, mycat.
Rich G (02:38):
I love that man.
When I met this guy a littleover three years ago, he was not
a cat guy, right.
And one day he shows up, he'slike I got a cat and now he's
smitten with his cat.
And for me, let's see, you know, what's been really cool lately
is that I'm learning to accessmore resources at school, which
is cool.
So I've been applying for, like, more scholarships and asking
(03:08):
for for more help, right.
So, like finding, um, you know,there's different things that I
can take advantage of at school, like, for instance, they will
offer me six therapy sessionsper semester, right, so, you
know, taking advantage of that,and some of the other things
that are like free services.
Uh well, not free, right, theycome with my tuition, but, but
therapy is freaking expensive.
If I can get six no-costtherapy sessions, there's a lot
(03:30):
of value in that it's hard toget appointments too.
Abbie (03:33):
Just to find a therapist right now.
Rich G (03:34):
that will take you, whether or not you even like
them.
Rich V (03:39):
I got to meet with my therapist for the first time
this last week, like I said,I've been applying for
scholarships and differentthings.
Rich G (03:46):
That's kind of cool.
You know, that is really cool.
Being able to ask for help andget help is always a nice thing.
Rich V (03:52):
I want to jump in on that.
I mean, you know you'reintroducing and doing all that
part, but you know a lot of us.
You know we've been through thegrinder.
You know with our disease.
You know, and you know a lot oftimes you know when we've, you
know, been in jail or we'vewe've run into problems that you
know get in our head.
(04:12):
You know cause we've reallybeen in our head when we're
dealing with our, with ouraddictions and it'll mess you up
in the head.
And I know, I know I've gone andseen outside help a lot.
You know, after, after, withwith this 12 step program, I've
seen therapists and it's helpedme out a ton.
(04:33):
You know to, to just get somepersonal attention.
You know, and see someone whogets to know me and know, knows
how I tick and and help me out.
And it is definitely definitelynot frowned upon at all by
anyone in any 12 step programfor you to go out and get some
help.
It's just fantastic to do it.
It makes you feel good.
Yeah, there used to be a lot ofweird feelings about that, but
(04:58):
no, no See, going to therapistis rock and roll, that's.
There's nothing wrong with thatat all.
Rich G (05:03):
Yeah, I think therapy was stigmatized, just in the
United States for a long time.
I feel like for a long time inthe United States you'd only go
to therapy if you were crazy,especially as a man, not to poor
man.
It's not a thing.
The patriarchy is strong.
Men aren't supposed to Men.
(05:25):
For a very long time we're notsupposed to feel things right.
Yeah, men don't get sad, youknow, forget about it, but
anyway so, but yeah.
Abbie (05:34):
Well, we just had therapy , or we were witches, you know.
Rich G (05:36):
Yeah, right, right.
Abbie (05:38):
Witches or therapy, I don't know yeah there you go
right right Fainting witches.
When you, right now, when youhave an opinion, when you have
an opinion, uh, we'll go aheadand burn you at the stake, right
?
Yeah right.
Rich G (05:49):
We're either a witch or we're fainting, because we're
you know, yes, because you'redramatic the hysterics
hysterical yeah yeah, um, yeah,so that was fun um, it's all bad
but it's really cool to to youknow, and there was definitely a
time in my life right where,like my pride and my ego would
have gotten in the way of mesaying like I need help.
Yeah, you know, like there's nochance.
Rich V (06:08):
You know, there was a time for me too, but, man, I
went through a time where, uh,um, uh, I was going through
divorce and living with thatperson at the same time till the
house sold, and then my father,who was my best friend at the
time also he was going throughbrain cancer and that was my
brain was blown up andeverything, and I went to see
someone just to help me getthrough that, and that was the
(06:31):
first time I'd seen a therapistand that was it, man.
I knew that it was a good thingto do.
Rich G (06:35):
Yeah yeah this is hard to get through that yeah sure,
that's a lot yeah, well, righton, thanks for sharing your
guys's gratitudes with me.
It always, uh, lifts my spiritsto think about things to be
grateful for, yeah yeah so thethird step, you know the third
step, so that's uh, where wemade the decision to turn our
(06:56):
will and our lives over to thecare of god.
As we understand god, yeah anduh, yeah, so so that's, that's
the step Right Made the decisionto turn our will and our lives
over to the care of God as weunderstand it.
So you know, we live in aculture where people are taught
that you know they're masters oftheir own destiny and that if
(07:18):
you work hard enough, that ifyou're moral enough, you're
strong enough.
You know sometimes, like evenif you're mean enough, that
you're going to.
You know sometimes, like evenif you're mean enough, that
you're going to get what youwant, what you desire.
And sometimes you know, I thinkearly on in your recovery, you
even think that that means thatyou can somehow will yourself to
recover.
Yeah, yeah, you're tough enough.
You're tough enough, or likeit's just that you're living an
(07:41):
immoral life, Right.
And if you just become moral,you know, if you just get more,
you know, if you just fixwhatever you're doing, that's
bad right, then you're going torecover and yeah, it goes deeper
than that.
It went deeper than that for me.
That's how I should say it.
So, yeah, what are our thoughtson that kind of approach?
Rich V (08:02):
Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, my first time
through rehab after my next 28days, and everyone's on couches
you know, a lot of rehabs arelike that and I'm saying goodbye
to everyone.
And what did I do?
But I ran and high-fivedeveryone in the couches saying
I'm doing great, I'm cured, Igot this beat, guys, you know,
(08:23):
gals, and I'm high-fivingeveryone on the way out and I'll
see you later.
I'm going to come back in, youknow, aftercare, you know, and
stuff like that.
And you know there's a class Icome in during it that you know,
come see everyone and stufflike that.
You know I'm all better.
And then I got out in the realworld Not a great sponsor and
stuff, but you know I tried todo it all my way and do it all
(08:45):
in my will, you know, becauseI'm tough and you know I'm the
hardest working man that you'veever seen, because I am.
I'm a darn hard worker, youknow.
And and I thought I couldoutwork alcohol and out, hustle
alcohol and out, think it, youknow, and and out, schmooze it
(09:07):
because great schmoozer, youknow, and liar, you know, and I
thought I could do all that andI could work on my steps and me,
me, me, cause I always tookcare of all my problems myself.
You know my entire life, youknow, and you know I always
thought I could do everything bymyself.
But that third step, I didn'tget it.
You know I didn't understandthat, you know it's.
(09:28):
You know I've got a seriousdisease.
You know doing it by yourself.
That's ridiculous.
To try and wrestle this diseasedown by myself, no flipping way
.
I've never seen anyone do it,never seen anyone do it without
help.
You know, and uh, um, and 10months later, I was back at
(09:51):
rehab, you know, with my tailbetween my legs and I really
thought I was working the steps.
I really thought I was doinggreat, but couldn't do it by
myself and I was.
You know, I was in the ditchwhen I went back.
It felt horrible, but then Ilearned, then I learned, just I
(10:12):
learned I couldn't do it bymyself.
And then I got that feeling I'mnot going to go ahead and
ramble on everything becausewe've got a lot to discuss, but
you can't do it by yourself,you've got to have help.
I definitely struggled, with itdiscussed but yeah you can't do
it by yourself.
Rich G (10:26):
You gotta have help.
You gotta have help.
I definitely struggled with it.
You know the idea of turninganything over to anything or
anybody.
You know, because I wasdefinitely raised in that
mindset, that you do it foryourself or it's not going to
get done.
If you rely on somebody else orsomething else, then it's not to
(10:47):
get, it's just not going to getdone, right, so you either do
something because you get itdone or it just doesn't happen.
Yep, and so you know,everything sounded good on paper
, but then a lot like you, youknow, once I got out of rehab
and I got kind of back out inthe real world and and the real
thing was like, yeah, when I gotback out in the real world and
(11:09):
life started coming at me again,that ability like when life was
simple and I was in the bubbleof rehab yeah, right, I was like
cool, turn things over, right.
Like they tell me when to getout of bed.
They tell me when I'm gonna eatlunch.
They tell me, you know, when toshow up to meetings.
They tell me all to get out ofbed.
They tell me when I'm going toeat lunch.
They tell me when to show up tomeetings.
They tell me all this kind ofstuff Abby's kind of handling
our life on the outside.
(11:30):
I'm turning my will over to God, right.
And then I get out into thereal world and I've got to pay
bills and I've got to go back towork and I've got to manage
people and I've got to do thisand I've got to do this and I've
got to do that.
And then I'm like, ah, thisstuff ain't happening the way
that I want it to Right.
And so I'm like, you know,start organizing things, that I
think how I think they should beorganizing my life, how I think
(11:51):
it should be, trying to makethings faster happen, faster
than maybe they should behappening.
You know, controlling everybodyand everything around me, like
like trying to Lord overeverything.
Man, you wanted to get throughthose steps too, oh yeah.
Pound through the steps, makesure my sponsor hears what he
needs to hear.
To give me, you know, the checkMark.
(12:13):
You know I'm just going to getthe A's and B's on my steps to
pass and graduate the programand, uh, you know, did the same
thing with my first therapist.
Right Like I wanted therapy,high fives, boom, boom,
graduated from therapy andrelapsed like a fucking madman.
(12:35):
Yeah, so it didn't get me veryfar.
Yeah, that's just how it wentfor me know.
Rich V (12:45):
You know, a thought that I had too is, uh um, I'm just
this kind of person too is uh um, just thinking.
You know, I have a higher powerand it was no problem.
You know, we'll talk about thisin a second, but I had no
problem coming knowing a higherpower.
I had a god in my life.
My, the way I go about thingsis you know, god, don't worry
(13:06):
about me.
You know you got other thingsto do.
I got it.
You know you can take care of alot of other things, but I got
it.
You know, don't worry about me.
And that's really how I felt.
You know, I don't want tobother you.
God, you know I got this.
You know, it's almost like I wasembarrassed to have to need
(13:27):
someone else, even God, to helpme.
It was almost embarrassingbecause I'd done everything.
The second, I walked out of myfolks' house, you know, when I
was 18, I walked out, went toschool.
I took care of myself eversince then and, you know, I was
(13:48):
just, I don't know.
I guess it was prideful.
Yeah, yeah, I guess it wasprideful.
You know, even though itdoesn't seem like boasting
prideful, it's just like I gotit.
You know, let me take care ofthis.
Abbie (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I mean you were.
You were the problem, I wasn'tthe problem.
Sure, you know what I mean.
Once you were out of the house,then I could easily stop myself
.
You know what I mean.
I was in control of myself.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Once, once you were out inrehab, then I could stop on my
(14:20):
own.
I had the power to stop.
I prayed that our life wasdifferent.
I was like I can't live likethis anymore.
So something had to change, andthat change was you.
Rich G (14:31):
It was you.
Abbie (14:32):
And once you were gone in rehabs and everything was
calmed down, I was like, oh yeah, I got this.
No, I'm good, you know what Imean.
I can stop whenever I want toand I don't need to, and I did I
stopped.
You've told me this before.
I'm sorry to interrupt.
Rich V (14:45):
No, it's okay.
Didn't you go through somehorrible detox by yourself?
Oh yeah.
Abbie (14:50):
That's what I'm saying.
I had a .33 on my DUI.
I am an alcoholic, I am nuts.
I'm insane.
I'm actually insane.
That's what I'm saying.
I pretended like he was theproblem.
Rich V (15:03):
When?
That's what I'm saying.
I pretended like he was theproblem.
When did you get the?
Abbie (15:05):
DUI, was it before In 2020.
So, yeah, right in COVID inJune 2020.
He hadn't gone to rehab yet.
Rich G (15:12):
She was why I started drinking.
Abbie (15:16):
Yeah, no, if you had a wife, no, but that's the thing.
If I think back of our drinking, we've been drinking really
heavily before we even movedhere.
You know what I mean, and I'vebeen and I and when we had a
before, even covid, I wasmarking bottles in my mind.
I was like counting shots ofour friends.
I'd be like, oh, oh, they'redrinking more than I, but we're
gonna need another bottle.
(15:36):
You know what I mean.
I'm already counting how much,how much liquor's left.
Rich G (15:40):
You know what I mean yeah, so it's like in my like
I'm already like doing thatbefore 2020 even was close by.
I mean, if she was across thehouse and she heard my glass
tink on the counter, she'd belike yeah, did you take a shot
without me?
Yeah, I would.
Abbie (15:54):
I would literally have eagle ears whatever you know owl
ears and be like did you take ashot?
I'm gonna get?
Yeah, I need a shot too.
Then, like go shot for shotwith him.
Yeah, like that was a good idea.
Rich V (16:09):
You know what I mean do you guys ever have bottles
hidden around the house so theother person didn't know you had
?
Abbie (16:14):
he did.
But it was like after I kind ofstopped, um, like drinking,
because he didn't just didn'twant me to know, but like we'd
always drink together.
So we don't really hide bottlesbecause like we just drink out
of the open, because we werejust drinking all the time, yeah
, but anyways, but yeah.
So like once he was gone I wastotally fine.
You know, I just stoppedwhenever I wanted and so I
didn't feel like it was god thathelped me.
(16:34):
You know what I mean.
But I went to aa and I wassupporting him and everything
was fine.
You know what I mean.
And then, like I said, I thinklast week, it was like then, all
of a sudden, when I startedthinking at work that I needed
to go get some whiskey on mylunch break, then I was like oh,
uh-oh and put it in my.
And then I, because somebodyhad somebody had said like I
(16:54):
don't know if I heard at ameeting or something like that.
I was like oh, yeah, so-and-so.
Like you know, I used to go outto my trunk and like drink like
booze on my lunch break andhide it in my trunk.
And I drink like booze and onmy lunch break and tied it in my
trunk and I was like, oh,that's a good idea.
I was like, and then I was like, oh, I can do that.
There's a.
There's a liquor store right bymy work and I was like, oh wow,
I'm actually considering thatthat is not a good idea.
That's not good you're reallyclose.
(17:16):
I was gonna say and richard'snot here and he's, you know, I'm
saying like he doesn't, he'snot at my work, so it's me, it
me, you know what I mean.
It's like yeah.
So then at some point I didrealize I was like, oh, I am.
And then I do need help becauseI'm I.
I did start to realize I havethe allergy and I have the
(17:37):
obsession of the mind which Ialways had.
But I just ignored it andpretended it wasn't there.
And once, like I said, once Istart thinking back.
I was marking bottles with thelittle, you know, little sharpie
in my mind of how full theywere, and then going back and be
like, okay, we're almost out,I'm gonna have to take more
shots before everybody else does, or we're gonna have to go get
more alcohol because there's notenough, because I'm not that
(17:59):
drunk yet yeah, you know I'msaying like I, I would do that
and I wouldn't tell anybody, butthat was in my brain and that
is insanity.
Yep, that is like the total.
Like, like you know, obsessionof the mind yeah like come on,
yeah, so um yeah, that's like Isaid.
Rich V (18:19):
I just would like, I think I was gaslighting myself
for real.
Abbie (18:21):
I know I've said that before, but like I really think
I was gaslighting myself forreal.
I know I've said that before,but like I really think I was
just completely oblivious towhat I was doing to myself in
some ways.
And then when, um like later Iwas just like once I finally
turned that corner.
I can think I had gone toenough where it kind of started
sinking in.
Did you get a sponsor?
Rich V (18:40):
Oh yeah, I had a sponsor pretty quick.
Yeah.
Abbie (18:44):
Yeah, because I'm doing all the things you know going
through the motions, being agood girl.
Rich G (18:50):
It was like a little bit after I got out of rehab the
first time.
Abbie (18:53):
Yeah, the first time A little bit after, maybe two
months after, something likethat, if that yeah.
Rich G (18:58):
Six weeks.
Abbie (18:58):
Yeah, so I was doing the things you know and and um, and
I really was on some leveltrying.
There was a level that I wastrying, but it wasn't with all
of me.
I was not trying with all of me, for sure.
And so then when I, I think Igot enough in my head to realize
I was like, oh, okay, maybethis is a thing you know, and
(19:20):
it's not just him and it is me,cause I was like you know, I was
like, nah, I was never going tobe like you know, my alcoholic
family members and stuff.
That was never going to be me.
Yeah, that's not me, no, it'snot me.
And so you know, that's whathappens sometimes.
Rich V (19:38):
I thought being an alcoholic is just a way of life.
Right way of life, right, it'sall my family you know,
functioning alcoholics.
I just was a functioningalcoholic, yeah, you know, I
just that's how I was until itjust got to that point?
There's just that point.
You know where.
It just doesn't work anymore.
I was doing great as analcoholic.
(19:58):
I wasn't.
Yeah, yeah it was going reallygood until it wasn't right,
until I had to have a six-packof beer on ice in my car and six
beers in my duffel bag that Ibrought into work and put in the
office with me, and you weresad about it.
Rich G (20:21):
You don't even want to drink it anymore.
Right, it's a problem.
Rich V (20:25):
You know that's when it's a problem you know, I liked
drinking it Until you didn't,until I was throwing up cold
beer in the morning.
Rich G (20:33):
Well, there you go.
That's when you don't like itanymore, right?
Abbie (20:37):
Oh man, when you start getting up in the morning and
you can't brush your teethbecause you'll throw up if you
brush can't, if you brush yourteeth, that is, that is not a
good place to just drink throughit man.
Rich G (20:49):
Yeah, that's not a good place, so I was gonna say like
um, you know, I was thinking,you know, back to when I first
tried to do the third step.
I think things would haveworked out differently if, if
god would have just worked on myparticular clock.
Yeah, I mean, I just needed tobend to my will a little bit,
(21:12):
just a little.
Hey, yo, I need this done by8.30.
You know you're on the clockRight and then like 8.30, okay,
fine.
I'll give you until 8.45.
And then if it wasn't done,like, who's gonna do it?
It's gotta be me.
Yeah, right, then I get realstressed out anyway.
Rich V (21:33):
Well then, you know, I, I went through the time of
kidding myself and and thinkingthat I was having god help me,
and then it being my own will,and you know, and, and then I
found myself back in rehab againfeeling like just hammered dog
shit.
You know, um, I'll cuss veryoften said, it just had to come
(21:56):
out, though, I mean becausethat's how you feel, that's how
I mean, and you don't feel good,yeah, and.
And then that's when it hit me.
I've told the story enoughtimes.
Just sitting there on the deckjust looking out over the grassy
fields with all the cows outthere, just an absolute gorgeous
(22:16):
day, late morning, and the sunshining on me, and all of a
sudden someone popped it in myhead.
There just was this feeling andit was a big one.
And you know, because I wastrying to wrap my head around
things, trying to wrap my headaround things, I just couldn't.
(22:39):
You know, I was detoxed aboutthree days.
And what am I doing?
What am I missing?
You know, I really want to besober.
I really want to be sober, andwhat am I doing?
What am I missing?
You know, I really want to besober, I really want to be sober
and I'm just failing.
And then I asked God, what am Idoing?
And all of a sudden I asked Godand then I got an answer.
You know, and God's answersusually are pretty subtle, you
(23:04):
know, and it just seemed like itwas a smack upside the head,
though in God's subtle way, itjust, you know, it's just sort
of I was feeling so much betterand I had this warm, just
beautiful late morning sun on meand all of a sudden I just
realized I had just asked Godfor help.
And I of a sudden I justrealized I just asked God for
(23:25):
help and I felt better.
And I felt better when I askedGod for help and I just sort of
thought I wasn't asking God forhelp enough.
And you know, and I really hadit, you know, first, you know I
had put together what I thoughtGod was.
You know what I thought, andThen I really felt, really felt
(23:50):
what my God was, and it just allcame together.
I mean, you know we all wentthrough.
I mean I went through, I wentthrough Catholic catechism when
I was real young and before Igot married, you know, I went
through confirmation and soforth, and so I had that God in
my mind, you know.
And but I just want to refinethings.
(24:11):
I mean it says God, you know ofyour own choice, understanding,
and you know I just had anunderstanding and you know what
a surprise with me.
But just, god is love.
God is this to me.
God is this ultra love.
You know, because you know youthink of the most powerful thing
in the world love.
You know, because you know youthink of the most powerful thing
(24:33):
in the world, you know.
And what beats love?
I mean fear.
Fear doesn't beat love.
You know love beats crap out offear.
You know any type of hell, oryou know demon or whatever you
think of, but when you think ofwhen you've felt the most love
you've ever felt in your life,that beats the crap out of
anything, beats the crap out ofany high I've ever had, you know
.
Or you know just any ego youknow I've ever come across, or
(24:56):
myself, I mean love beats thesnot out of all that.
You know the feeling of love,the power of love, and and that
started forming in me.
You know exactly I was puttingthe pieces together for me and
it just all of a sudden hit melike a freight train, and you
know it.
(25:17):
Just I just thought you knowwhat I'm in, all in Chips are in
, you know I just that was time,you know, just give it up to
God.
And that's when things startedgoing well, that's when life
just started going so muchbetter.
You know, and it might not beall the things in my life were
going that much better.
(25:38):
You go through hardships, likeanyone's life is, but it's the
way of living is so much better.
The way you live is just somuch better.
It just is.
It just is.
I've been through so many roughtimes being sober and I've got
God on my side.
Rich G (25:58):
And I've got love.
You get through it.
Yeah, that kind of brings me tosomething I was telling you
guys.
It's funny, I've read, that wasmy soapbox.
Rich V (26:06):
Yeah, no, you did great that was awesome.
Rich G (26:09):
I've read this step like I mean I don't know how many
hundreds of times.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybethousands at this point, right,
yeah, over the last four years,and I've read it so many times.
But today it just like hit me alittle bit differently, right,
and it doesn't say that we willgoing to turn ourselves over to
(26:30):
the care of a power greater thanourselves.
And it just like hit a littledifferent today when, like, I
read it like with a little moreintention today, I was like, oh,
the care of a power greaterthan myself, right?
Or of the God that I understand.
And I was like you know, it's.
It's funny because, yes, I'msaying, like you know, here's my
will in my life, but I'mturning it over to your care,
(26:53):
not to your control, right?
So like it just feels better,right, like it just makes you
feel a little warmer with it, asopposed to like, ok, just like,
point me where you want me togo, I'm your minion.
Right Going to be cared for, notjust Right cared for not just
right, it's more like somebody'sgonna hold it and value it and
(27:15):
cherish it, and just put itwhere it's supposed to go and
care for it.
Yeah, as it guides you, youknow.
So it just feels better tothink of it that way and be
careful with it, yeah right and,and I think I definitely think
when I listen to it.
Guide you though sure, but Idefinitely think when, when I
first ran into this, I was likegreat, something going to
control me.
Now, screw this, everybody justwants to control me and tell me
(27:37):
what to do.
Like I said, I definitelyalready live my life in this way
.
I concede everything to Godevery morning because it does
lead me to a greater peace, likeI get to live in peace today.
But today, when I read it, Iwas like, yeah, the care of God,
the care of my higher power,right, because when I turn it
(28:00):
over, it's going to be cared for, it's not going to be taken
advantage of, because if youturned it over to another human
being, it would be takenadvantage of, even if I turned
it over to my loving andbeautiful wife.
Rich V (28:11):
Human nature is not going to care for it, but your
higher power is going to.
That's a pretty dark thing ofhuman nature, though.
Rich G (28:21):
No, but even accidentally, it's true of me
right, like eventually you'regoing to take advantage of it,
even intentionally,unintentionally, right, you'll
use it for your own benefit.
It lose it whatever, you knowanyway.
So it just struck me differentand so, like what you were
(28:42):
sharing kind of uh flowed intothat.
You know it's truly about thecare, like it's going to be
handled with care.
You know it's got the fragilesticker on it right.
Rich V (28:50):
And you know, whenever I let God care for it instead of
me, that's it right.
Things go Okay.
I can see that Instead ofwhenever I let God take care of
it maybe not, but whenever I letGod care for it and I listen to
God's care, caring love yeahthere you go, yeah yeah.
Rich G (29:15):
So when you stick it, stick your own self out there,
you end up feeling like hammereddog shit, like you said before.
So you better have just leaveit in god's care and yeah,
nothing comes along to hammeryou.
Yeah, so anyway um yeah.
So I just thought it was reallycool that, no matter how many
hundreds and hundreds of timesthat I've read that, that it
still hit me different when Iwas putting together some notes
(29:36):
for today.
Rich V (29:37):
Well, I guess that's a really loving statement put out
that way.
Rich G (29:44):
Yeah, it's much more gentle and kind and caring to
think about it that way, andkind and caring, you know to
think about it that way.
Something else that I wrotedown that I kind of enjoy is you
know, I have heard often I haveno idea where the quote
originates, right but I heardoften in 12-step meetings is
surrender is not defeat, it'sjust joining the winning side.
(30:07):
I love that one yeah right, sosurrender is not defeat, it's
just joining the winning side.
So do you have any thoughts onthat?
Abbie (30:17):
Hmm, Put you on the spot.
Well, I guess I never.
That's what I actually haven'treally heard.
Oh really, yeah, that's really.
I haven't heard that one much.
I do like it but I haven't heardit much, but I always just feel
like, um, I always think of,like surrendering.
As to me, it's always.
(30:37):
Everybody always thinks of it asas as, as, like giving away
something, but it's reallycounterintuitive because you
really give it away and then youget like so much more and you
actually get a full, a full life, like, like you said, joining
the winning team, but like it'sreally just so much more than
you think it's going to be,because you, when you're, when
(30:59):
you don't surrender, you're justliterally fighting against
everything all day, every day,mind people, you know, um, you
know everything just all day.
You're fighting against, becauseyou have to work against the
flow of god or whatever you'retrying to do, your own will.
If you surrender, then you getto work with the flow of god and
(31:22):
then you end up you just like,like I think we've said it
before it's like floating on ariver and you just get to float.
Instead of having to, like youknow, paddle up river because of
your own will, because your ownwill is not the way the river
is going, you're trying toblindly navigate yourself yeah
there and because you me, as oneperson, I don't know where the
(31:42):
river's going.
I didn't build a river, you know.
I didn't create the river, youknow, and I'm one speck on a
humongous river, you know Ican't make the river turn
different ways, and so that's.
I love that quote but, like, asfar as surrender, it's like I
really it's such a big deal, youknow, in this program,
(32:04):
especially when people are soscared of it, they're terrified
of it Because they really thinkthey're going to lose themselves
.
But you don't have to lose yourpersonality, you just have to
lose your fighting.
Rich V (32:17):
Right.
Abbie (32:17):
You have to lose your fighting of what you think is
the right way to do everything.
Rich G (32:22):
But I think that's kind of the thought right Is if
you're, you know, if you're likethe soldier that's at war,
right, and you've got the twosides that are fighting and then
the losing side that is clearlygoing to lose.
Right, You're the losing battle.
Rich V (32:36):
Right, You're in a losing battle, especially if
you're fighting for someone whoyou don't like.
Let's say you're fighting forHitler, regardless of that right
.
Rich G (32:46):
But you're in the losing battle and it's evident that
you're in the losing battle,right, and you surrender, right,
and it's the end of the war.
Then what happens when yousurrender?
Typically you get to like, youget to just go home and live
your life right and yeah, I mean, you may not.
You know your government andsome things in your life might
change, but you do get to justgo home and you're no longer on
(33:09):
the battlefield, starving, dyingdying et cetera right.
So like it might not be that youjoin the winning side right,
but you also have the war's overright, you're not getting shot
at anymore.
Rich V (33:21):
That's pretty cool Stuff blowing up on you, right, yeah.
Rich G (33:25):
So at least the war's over.
But yeah, I mean, I've heardthat several times in meetings,
you know Well.
Rich V (33:28):
You mean I've heard that several times in meetings, you
know Well you know, surrenderingto me, I mean the jock in me,
you know, I played a lot ofsports, the mercy rule, and
surrendering is just notsomething you do.
I mean, I spent my whole lifenot surrendering, you know.
And the thought of surrenderingat first, you know, was, you
(33:49):
know you don't surrender.
But then, when you surrenderthe right way, it's just so
soothing oh, get all this off myback and get all these lies.
That's the one thing I keepcoming back to when I talk about
it.
When I got to surrender allthose lies, yeah, oh, just give
those up and make amends to allthose people that I lied to.
(34:11):
Well, that steps down the road,I know.
But you know when I got to justsurrender all that stuff and
just start.
But right now, you know, I gotright now in this step, I got to
formulate what God is to me.
Rich G (34:25):
So I feel like one of the really big benefits of
turning things over in my lifeto the care of God is that it's
made room for so many otherthings.
Right, because I would have allof these things that, quite
frankly, I couldn't control, butI was trying to, but I'd have
them all on my mind, right?
And they would consume mythoughts and my time and that
(34:47):
would leave me no time to carefor myself and to love myself
and to care for and to loveothers.
So, by turning over some or allof those things that would just
burden me, and by being able tolearn to turn those over to the
care of God or a higher power,I freed myself up Right, so now
(35:09):
I'm able to spend time on thingslike self-care, which I
literally love.
Don't think I ever did until Igot sober.
Abbie (35:17):
He didn't.
Rich G (35:18):
Right, I don't think.
Abbie (35:20):
I mean self-care, like.
Rich G (35:21):
I mean, personal hygiene was probably about as close as
I got to self-care Right andlike, yeah, there was just never
like.
Relax, what is that Right?
Relax, how do I relax?
I go drink Right.
Rich V (35:33):
So like that was it so.
Rich G (35:35):
but now, like life is completely different.
Right, like, I can sit and Ican listen to people when they
need to talk, and I can taketime for myself just to sit and
be quiet when I need to and letmy mind calm down.
Sometimes that's spent turningmy will and my life over to the
(35:55):
care of God.
Right, like, sometimes that'sme just stopping when I am
freaking out about something andgoing like, wait, this problem
doesn't even have to be mine.
I can actually just say,actually, it's not my problem,
give it up.
So that was one thing I wasthinking about today, too.
Is that it's freed me up whereI can love myself and love
others, where before that was ahuge block for me because my
(36:17):
thoughts were consumed with somuch stuff that, quite frankly,
I couldn't control.
Rich V (36:22):
You were so far away from serenity.
Serenity was a concept that youhad no idea of.
You know, because what comeswith our fun disease is that we
never finish anything Becausewe've got lies that are clouding
(36:42):
our head.
And then we have the obsessionof getting more booze and how to
go about it without otherpeople finding out or knowing
that we're we're alcohol, we'reloaded at the time, and so
that's on our mind.
Okay, make sure they don't knowI'm loaded.
Okay, but I can get booze overhere and I can still do it
without people knowing that I'mdrunk.
Abbie (37:02):
And so Don't act drunk, don't act drunk, don't act drunk
, don't act, drunk.
Rich V (37:06):
But isn't it cool being.
Abbie (37:07):
And then you're like oh, can I have the?
Oh, shit, I act drunk.
Rich V (37:11):
Okay, yeah, but isn't it cool that I'm drunk and no one
knows I'm drunk how?
Abbie (37:15):
am I doing?
Rich V (37:16):
Yeah, okay, but then, oh , I lied about this.
I've got to keep that lie going, okay, but oh, I've got to
finish this.
That I started earlier.
Yeah, but I want to get thisdone, let me get this done first
, I'll finish that later.
But oh, I want to have a drink,and so your mind, so you don't
get anything done.
Rich G (37:35):
Everything's half-assed done or not done, and it just
keeps going in a pattern, andthen, once you're sober, you can
get stuff done because you'rejust saying god, give me a hand
but even before, like, like I'meven thinking, like before I
reached that point when I wouldget home at night and I would
like be sitting there andthinking about my work day and
(37:57):
I'd be like you know, that guyRich just won't do the things
that I want, that I need him todo, and like, how am I going to
get him to do what I need him todo?
How am I going to make him dowhat I need him to do?
Rich V (38:09):
I've really got to figure this out.
What's going to make him?
Rich G (38:12):
perform the way that I need him to perform.
And then I've also got to thinkabout Abby and what's going to
make her do what I need her todo.
And my boss is a jackass.
He's not doing his job, so Ihave to figure out how to do his
job too.
And then, oh crap, my mom'scalling.
You know what?
I'm not going to answer for herbecause I've got to figure out
how to make Rich do what heneeds to be doing, abby doing
what she needs to be doingcomplaining.
(38:32):
It was just like I had to becontrolling.
I'm talking about well before Imet you, my man like I know you
experienced some of it, butthat was like my life from the
(38:53):
time that I got into high school.
I feel like right like like mywhole life.
Like was that level of like,stress and control right, like I
had to be plugging in, like Iwas working the switchboard
right?
and like I had to control otherpeople control other people, the
(39:14):
things that were happeningaround me.
You know who was driving in mylane down the road.
I needed to be able to controland predict all of it.
I needed to be able to work outthe quick math that would
predict the future.
I needed to predict the futureand fix the past Right now.
(39:35):
I needed to be able to do allof it.
That's tough.
Abbie (39:44):
I've got anxiety right now.
Right, like I needed to be ableto do all of it.
And, man, like that's tough.
Oh, I got.
I've got anxiety right now, Ihave anxiety for you.
I'm like but that's how.
Rich G (39:49):
That's how I functioned man like that's how, that's how
like.
Abbie (39:52):
I was there with you.
Rich G (39:53):
I feel that that's how high strung and high wired I was
for so long, and I mean yousuffered some of it because you
would see, like, like you wouldtry to help me with something,
I'd be like just give it to meLike, no, you're not doing it
right.
Why are you doing dishes inthat order?
Don't do dishes in that order.
Rich V (40:12):
What are you doing?
I remember you telling me aboutthat, though.
Right Well you first startedgetting sober, you complained
about how she did dishes.
Rich G (40:19):
It's because I'm and I'm still a work in progress today.
That's when you first started,not now.
Well, today I'll go.
You know, I noticed you'revacuuming like that.
Okay, I'm going to just shut up.
Thank you for vacuuming.
So I still it's still a work inprogress, right, but before it
was like constant and so likewhen I say that it was a gift to
(40:43):
be able to turn that over, likeonce I let go of even a small
portion of that level of peacethat I started to feel was
amazing and and, like you know,I was telling Abby, like I was
struggling with someperfectionism and some different
things.
(41:03):
I think I may have been sharingthat with you, like this last
week, yeah, and like I felt someof that come back.
But I know what to do with itnow, right, and I know how to
recognize it and I know what itwill do to me, right, so I can
manage it so much better becauseI've learned how to like turn
it over and I learned how tolove other people and not let
that part of me, because that'san addiction too for me.
(41:26):
You know that's something, thatthat's just another form of
addictive behavior for me.
So you know, learning to letthat and that's really is
turning that care over to a God,a power greater than myself.
Like you know, whateversomebody out there might believe
in the rhythm of the universe,the flow, like you were saying
(41:49):
earlier, to actually live in theflow, you know, that's how I
describe my life right now,right, is that?
Like I'm just the river flowingdown the hill?
Rich V (41:57):
You know that's showing that you're loving yourself.
Yeah, Because you're lettingyourself be hill.
You know that's showing thatyou're loving yourself.
Yeah, because you're lettingyourself be free.
You let yourself love yourself.
You'll get yourself cornered inthis.
You know unstopping.
You know garbage.
I mean, quite frankly, who?
Rich G (42:16):
wouldn't drink, and if I get myself feeling like that
right, if I allow that back inmy life, that's, that's, that's,
that's, that's, no, no.
Rich V (42:28):
Yeah.
Rich G (42:28):
That's an immediate relapse for me, right?
So I have to be very aware ofwhen I and I have to talk about
it, right?
I was telling you it felt good,I talk to Abby about it.
I talk to the men in my churchgroup about it.
Take the power out of that.
Yeah, I have to talk about thatbecause I have to be.
I have to keep that right infront of me when.
Rich V (42:44):
I'm feeling it.
Rich G (42:49):
Because that is a living , breathing relapse in my life,
right there.
But it's that ability to turnit over, to share it, turn it
over, put it out there, let itbe known, and it dies, man,
that's got to feel good, it'sgood.
Oh yeah, that's a good learningwhat to do with it, because I
never knew what to do with ituntil sobriety.
You know, and that's that'swhere the 12 steps are such a
gift, you know, and that's why Ilook at it as such a gift, like
(43:10):
, that's why you know, like, uh,you know, I've said before that
I always thought that whenpeople would like in a meeting
say like I'm a grateful addictor I'm a grateful alcoholic, I'm
like you're dumbass, right.
But but now I kind ofunderstand it, because I would
have never put the effort intoworking these steps.
They would change my life somuch had I not imploded my life
with addiction and alcohol yeah,right yeah, oh this, yeah, this
(43:35):
has saved my life right
Rich V (43:36):
absolutely saved my life .
Yeah, so I mean I'm not beingdramatic, but with this disease
it has completely saved my life.
Yeah, it's made me a personthat most people who have my
disease do not act like I do.
My doctor was telling me thismost people that have my disease
, they just sit in a dark cornerand watch TV and do not talk to
(43:59):
anyone, do do not the rest oftheir life, they just just sit
and wallow away and that's justhow they spend the rest of their
life because they just can'thandle being in pain 24 hours a
day and it just consumes themand they just sit and sit and
whenever they talk to the doctor, it's just to get their pain
medication.
Or, you know, they talk to atherapist and therapists can't
(44:20):
do anything to help them all.
Yeah, it's, it's.
It just ruins their lifecompletely and they don't
communicate or anything likethat.
And I'm the only person he'scome across that actually leads
any type of life.
You know, because of 12 steps,but you know it's just because
you know I've learned to lovemyself and I've learned to have
(44:42):
beautiful, loving people in mylife.
You know, and and I got toformulate this, god at the third
step.
Sorry to come around, but it isreally seriously come around to
that.
It started with that.
That feeling, that love that,all the concepts that have been
going through my head and myheart for a long time, it all
(45:03):
came together.
That love, that power that Ilearned at the third step I got
to have all through my steps andstuff like that the rest of my
life.
I turned my will over to thecare.
Of my Life just got better.
Abbie (45:20):
Yeah Well, this podcast is just what I needed.
Yeah, good, yeah, feel bettertonight.
Yeah well, I just needed to bereminded that I turned it all
over.
Yeah, because I've been havingsome rough times and I keep
praying about it.
But I keep not turning it over.
I keep praying about it but notsaying it's yours.
I just keep saying, you know,please do this or please do that
(45:42):
, but I don't say it's yours andthat is not what I am doing.
That and that's what I need todo.
Rich G (45:51):
That was a great reminder.
Abbie (45:52):
Nice Subtle difference there there is a very subtle
difference, yeah, and then Ijust felt my heart get lighter
when I thought about doing that,because I was like then I don't
have to sit here and stressabout it, because I've been
stressing about a whole bunch ofthings that.
I talked to you and, again, likeI talked to you, I talked to my
mom, I talked to my girls atchurch and my other girls at my
program.
But it's like but, and that wasgreat, I'm glad I did that too.
(46:15):
But, just like you, I'm tryingto keep ahead of my behavior,
because I've had my addictivebehaviors come out, with my
anger and frustration andimpatience, and those are my,
those are my past behaviors andI don't want to be like that.
And so I've been veryfrustrated lately and really
(46:37):
like short tempered and I'm Idon't want to be that way and
that's the one thing I wasn'tdoing is surrendering it.
I wasn't doing that, I wastalking about it.
I'm praying about it, but notsurrendering it yeah, you know,
there is.
Rich G (46:51):
There is, and I say, a subtle difference, because
there's a subtle differencebetween hey God, you know what's
going on, yeah, this and thisand this, versus hey God, I've
got a problem that I'm going tomake your problem.
Abbie (47:03):
Yeah, and then I'm going to walk away from it.
No, I really just realizedright now.
When we were talking, I waslike, oh my goodness, that's
what it was.
Rich G (47:09):
Yeah, and yeah, of course it's like yeah, that's
what I needed to do it stillexists, but if you turn it over
and then turn it over sometimesyou have to turn it over again
It'll be like it's not mineanymore.
Abbie (47:24):
I don't have to think about it, I don't have to try to
figure it out, because that'swhat I've been doing, that's why
I've been so stressed out,because I'm trying to figure it
out, and it's been turned overto the care journey as far as
that goes, like it's been.
I think my whole journey, withthe whole process, has been this
(47:45):
gradual thing.
I didn't have, as I'vementioned before, I've, never, I
didn't have this lightningmoment, because I've had a guy
in my life, my whole life.
I never, I never said I didn'tbelieve in god.
I never said I didn't.
He's always been with me andbut I left.
I left for a while and didn'tcommunicate with my God, my
higher power, and then I cameback.
And so now, once I start doingthe actions, little by little,
(48:11):
then I start seeing the results,I start seeing the promises.
But it's not this big bang ofthe situation like other people
have who haven't had it before.
You know what I mean.
I just see these little kind oflike daisies popping up out of
the ground.
You know what I mean.
Just little tiny things, but Isee it.
But again, I have to be payingattention, I have to be, you
know, aware of what's going on.
(48:32):
I have to keep my eyes open,because if I close my eyes and I
say, oh, nothing's happening, Ican't feel it, I can't see it
because I'm being resentful thatI'm not going to notice it,
then my program will not be good.
It's so subtle.
Yeah, because I, because I dohave to, because I'm not having
the flashy things like everybodyelse not everybody else, some
people I have to be I have topay more attention to see my
(48:58):
promises, to see my blessingssometimes, and that's okay, that
is okay.
Yeah, but sometimes they arebigger than just a little type
of thing.
So, yeah, Awesome.
Rich G (49:09):
Yeah Well, I'm glad that the show fed you tonight.
Yeah, it did.
We like that, we like that.
We all get that once in a while, whenever there's two people,
there's always a meeting, so wehave a meeting today.
Rich V (49:19):
That's a good meeting.
Yeah, that is awesome.
Meeting it just yeah, it's justfun.
It's just fun I.
Whenever you get to sit aroundand talk about, and especially
when you get talked about higherpower, yeah, you know it, just
it.
You can't help but enjoy it.
You know it just.
It gets to be nice and raw, youknow, and inside of it, and
(49:40):
then you get the you know, feelwhat you're feeling about it.
That rubs off on you, you know,and the more we can feel that
and get in practice of rubbingthat off on others you know
anyone you walk by and say hi toyou.
You feel I say hi to so manypeople during the day and share
(50:02):
that and then it makes thatfeeling more powerful.
You can't give it away and haveless.
The more you give it away, themore power you have.
Do you understand?
The more you try to help outother people and everything, the
(50:25):
more you help, the more loveand God you have in you.
Yeah, it's not something thatyou give away and have less of.
You give away and have more ofSort of a karma thing, right,
yeah, give good, you get good,right.
And whenever I'm down and I'mfeeling just oh, you know, I
just give some love and boom,you feel better.
(50:48):
That's why service is so good,right, yeah, yeah.
That's why being of service isjust awesome.
Rich G (50:53):
Well, that was a fun show, guys.
So you know, last Last coupleof questions, as usual, Progress
not perfection.
Rich V (51:05):
What's something that you've been working on lately?
Yeah, I've got some issues withmy legs, okay, from the job
that I've ran restaurants for 38years and I was on my legs 10,
12 hours a day.
Plus I'm kind of a big guy andso so my the pumps in my legs
(51:28):
don't work very well with mywith blood, and so I'm seeing
doctors and getting some woundsthat I have on my legs healed up
and and maybe getting someoperations on my legs to get
them better.
So that's what I've beenworking on right now.
Okay, yeah.
Abbie (51:49):
I think just what I talked about I'm trying to be
like just aware of my feelings.
And now I mean I had kind of anepiphany during this time, but
like just really payingattention to that, because in my
younger years I would have kindof let my old behaviors take
over and my mind would have beendepressed and my whole.
I would have just kind of letit overtake me.
You know, with depression andum, my feelings just be in
(52:10):
control.
And so that's what I wasworking on.
This last like probably threeweeks is like not letting it
take over.
You know what I mean?
Like I felt, didn't feel good.
I felt like I was fightingsomething, whatever you want to
call it, my addiction, the devilwhatever you want to call it it
doesn't matter, but I wasfighting against it and I was
(52:32):
aware that I was fightingagainst it, as opposed to just
letting it take over and notcaring who I hurt or how it hurt
me, and so that's specificallywhat I'm working on right now
with this.
I'm hoping if, now that I cangive it over, maybe that will
clear up what's going on, yeah,good oh love that.
Rich G (52:52):
Um, you know, I think for me, um, for me, it's like
kind of like I was sayingearlier, right, it's like being
able just getting progressivelybetter at recognizing when I'm
starting to feel a little funkyor a little something that I
shouldn't be feeling, butgetting much, much better at
(53:14):
sharing that with the peoplearound me that will support me,
right, being open, being openabout it, sharing it out there,
and I feel like it's just soeffective that when you put
something out there in the worldthat you're feeling and you
tell it to people that willsupport you on it, that it does,
like you said, rich, it takesthe power out of it, right.
So I think that's a reallypowerful gift, you know, to be
(53:36):
able to work with.
Abbie (53:37):
Yeah, oh, I did have one more thing, yeah, you know, to
be able to work with.
Yeah, um, oh, I did one morething, yeah, um, also trying to
not like legitimately not carewhat other people think of me,
but not in like a negative way,in a way of like, if I want to
do something, I do it, justbecause I want to do it sure you
know what I mean?
um, because I've had a lot of mylife and I know a lot of people
(53:59):
feel this way too.
But I've had a lot of my lifeand I know a lot of people feel
this way too.
But I've had a lot of my lifewhere I have just been too
scared to do something because Iwas just so like somebody's
going to think of this or that,or they're going to think of me
this way or that way, and I justwould always have this little
back of my head person going youshouldn't do that.
You're going to look stupid,they're going to hate you.
Everybody's gonna think you'redumb, you know and it's bad talk
(54:19):
my whole life and I've really,really been able to squash a lot
of that in the last few years.
However, it's still there, sure?
So, um, that's what I did.
That's why I did that on lastfriday night.
I rode in my can't pull and Ilooked like a real silly goose,
but it was really fun.
And I was on there for 1.1seconds and I fell off
immediately, but but it wasreally fun.
Nice and so yeah, but I reallywanted to do it.
(54:43):
It was one of my bucket listsand I always wanted to do it
when I was drunk and I ended updoing it when I was sober.
Rich G (54:48):
There, you go.
Abbie (54:49):
So that was kind of fun, that's cool.
Rich V (54:52):
I want to get on something that you said about
when you're giving out thesethings for people to help you.
Yeah, now see, you have helpedthose people as well, you know,
because you give them a chanceto help you.
Sure, sure, yeah, absolutely.
So.
Everyone loves to help someoneelse.
It's reciprocal.
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's asymbiotic relationship.
(55:14):
Right there you go.
Absolutely.
Rich G (55:17):
And then the other one is what's the greatest gift
you've been given recently byrecovery?
You know, I had one justyesterday.
I kind of shared with you guysbefore the show that I've become
a little active in theon-campus club students for
recovery at SRJC, and yesterdaywas club day.
It was kind of cool because wehad a table where we got to be,
(55:38):
you know, sharing someinformation with people and of
course you know it, someinformation with people, and of
course you know it's a college,right, and so like I'm an old
guy at the college but there's alot of young kids and you know
they're coming by the table andwe've got, I mean, of course you
know students for recovery, butthis particular club recognizes
pretty much whatever you'redoing right.
(56:02):
So like harm reduction, ifyou're trying to do less.
Reduction if you're trying todo less.
If you're trying to learn about, you know, using clean needles.
If you're trying to learn, youknow it's really about anything
right.
Um, learning how to use safely,um, you know, if you're on
medically assisted treatment, ifyou're using, uh, you know
methadone or any any, basicallywhatever recovery looks like to
you.
You're welcome to come in andshare with us and be part of the
(56:23):
club.
Part of what we do is we takeand we have a large supply of
Narcan, which is to reverse theeffects of an opioid overdose.
We also have these little packsthat are for opioid testing
strips.
Say, you're buying press pillsof an opioid overdose and we
also have these little packsthat are for uh, opioid testing
strips, right.
So like say, you're buyingpress pills of xanax, right, and
(56:46):
you crush up the pill in thepack and you put a little water
in it, you put the test strip init and it will tell you if it's
.
It won't tell you that it isxanax, but it will tell you if
it is fentanyl, all right,that's good right so and that's
super common, right?
because everything's laced withfentanyl.
That's good, that's supercommon because everything's
laced with fentanyl, becauseit's super cheap to produce.
If you think you're gettingXanax but you're actually
getting fentanyl, this will tellyou.
(57:07):
You have to crush up the wholepill, because they can just put
a few flecks of fentanyl inthere and be giving you a lot of
fentanyl.
Anyway, we're sharing withthese college students and it
can start off like a little bitof an odd conversation, but then
you tell them look, I'm nottrying to keep you from partying
, I'm trying to keep you safe.
So if you put your xanax inthere, because they're like the
(57:29):
whole pill, right, so put yourxanax in there, crush it up,
dump your water in there, testit, and if it tests negative,
then just dump the water in yourmouth and you get your xanax,
you know I like we're out heretrying to educate you and save
lives rightand then we show them how to use
narcan right, we, we explainwhat opioid overdose looks like
(57:49):
and all that.
And we have like several kidscome by like, oh, I party all
the time.
Or like, hey, my brother, mybrother is a heroin user.
Or you know, we have this onegirl come by, she's like I got a
raves all the time and she likegrabbed like four narcan kits
and like a whole handful of thetest strips and I'm like yeah,
she's going to rave.
I'm like go girl right, but likeit felt good to like do you
(58:12):
know, it feels like you'rereally doing a service and like
you know who knows you like youknow but, it's funny.
Abbie (58:18):
It's like the new condom.
You know what I mean.
We have condoms at the table,we do.
We used to be like condoms waslike a little.
You know, that's like the newthing right keeping people safe,
you know, yeah, it's not edgyanymore yeah
Rich G (58:30):
we have like a whole bag of condoms there too like yeah,
um, but yeah and, but you know.
So that was just really cool tobe able to like educate people
on it and like tell them how touse Narcan and tell them about
the Good Samaritan Law, becauseof course they're like, well,
what if the cops show up and I'mlike, look, they can't arrest
you.
You're protected by law, right,if you've saved somebody from
an overdose, even if you'recarrying drugs and they're
(58:52):
carrying drugs, they'll leaveyou alone.
They just want to save lives.
So, anyway, that was reallyrewarding to get to do that.
Rich V (58:57):
Yeah, definitely yeah.
Rich G (59:00):
So that was a gift and I got to be there because I'm in
recovery.
Rich V (59:06):
That's awesome.
Oh man, look at all thesewindows doors that have opened
up for you.
Rich G (59:11):
Right, just fun stuff, man, just great stuff.
I get to do all kinds of coolstuff because you know I've
changed my direction in life, sothat's pretty good.
Yeah, and you know I've changedmy direction in life, so that's
pretty good, yeah, and whereyou were?
Rich V (59:21):
Yeah, what a huge three man 180.
Abbie (59:24):
Good stuff, yeah, I get to um I'm I am still going
through a fifth step with mysponsee and it's just really um,
it's amazing.
Rich V (59:33):
So that's so I, yeah there.
Yeah, there's there's.
Yeah, that's yeah I it's hardto say yeah it's just there's
not many.
Abbie (59:42):
I mean, it's rough, of course, but it's just like to to
have the you know the releaseof, of, just you know getting
her to be able to push throughall of that.
You know what I mean'd go pastit.
Rich G (59:57):
To be their person.
Rich V (01:00:00):
It's pretty special.
Share that love.
That's amazing.
Sure, that's just so much lovedoing that, so much of that
stuff coming off of them.
It's visuals, you can justwatch it happen.
Yeah, alright, if you have anyquestions about today's show or
anything else recovery.
Watch it happen.
Rich G (01:00:20):
Yeah, yeah All right, well, yeah, if you have any
questions about today's show oranything else recovery related,
please feel free to reach out inthe comments section, facebook,
instagram or email the riches.
You can find all of thatinformation in the episode
description.
We'll release episodes on the1st and 15th of each month and
we look forward to having youjoin us for future content.
We'll continue working down theseries of steps, so our next
(01:00:46):
steps episode will be steps fourand five together.
Rich V (01:00:50):
Great present.
Rich G (01:00:51):
Yeah, abby was just talking about four and five, so
we'll be exploring that contenttogether, and so thank you guys
for hanging out with me tonight.
Four and five Still more 5,still more fun, still more fun.
That's great.
Thanks to our audience forbeing part of our sobriety today
, thank you.
Thank you so much for giving ussome of your time.
(01:01:12):
We really hope you gotsomething out of today's episode
.
We would be honored if youwould like and share the episode
or leave a review or commentwith your takeaways.
Don't forget to subscribe totune into future episodes.
Have a great day.
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