August 25, 2024 • 48 mins
Summary: In this conversation, Michael LeBlanc and Edith discuss various topics, including triggers from childhood, coming out as bisexual, and navigating relationships. Michael shares his experiences with triggers related to cleaning and how therapy has helped him manage his reactions. He also talks about his journey of coming out as bisexual and the different reactions he received from his ex-wife, his mother, and his brother. Edith shares her own experiences with coming out and the challenges she faces in her current relationship. Overall, the conversation highlights the importance of open communication and self-acceptance. In this part of the conversation, Michael LeBlanc discusses his experience as a bisexual person in the military. He shares that he didn't realize he was bisexual until he developed a crush on someone he worked with during his first deployment. He also talks about the acceptance and playful homosexuality he observed among his fellow sailors in the electronics mates division. However, when Marines were brought on board, tensions arose due to homophobia. Michael also reflects on the connection between homophobia and closeted homosexuality. The conversation then shifts to personal updates and a discussion about cats.
Sound Bites
- "There are a few triggers that I've come to recognize, thanks to the miracle of therapy."
- "Can you tell me a situation where you have felt insecure about communicating?"
- "I put myself back in my box. It's like, well, there's there's no need to tell anybody about this. Just let my fantasies be fantasies and I'll just live with them, I guess."
- "I knew that I wasn't exactly playing with the straightest of cards, but I didn't really think I was bisexual until I was out."
- "There was an interesting era of playful homosexuality that came mostly from the electronics mates."
- "It's been my experience that the very people that are the most homophobic are homosexuals themselves."
Chapters
00:00Introduction and Casual Conversation
02:11Managing Triggers from Childhood
10:08The Journey of Coming Out as Bisexual
19:24Navigating Relationships with Open Communication
25:42The Importance of Self-Acceptance
32:14Introduction and Next Question
32:30Discovering Bisexuality in the Military
34:23Acceptance and Playful Homosexuality in the Electronics Mates Division
36:19Tensions and Homophobia with the Introduction of Marines
37:32The Connection Between Homophobia and Closeted Homosexuality
53:13Personal Updates and Being 'A Little Homeless'
56:56The Most Hated Man on TikTok
01:00:31Closing and Clickbait
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Well, my friend, I'm going to do a little bit of an introduction. Hello, how are you?
(00:05):
Please do.
Hello, this is Edith Ivey Rosenblatt of the Bisexual Coffee podcast with Edith and friends.
This is my friend Michael LeBlanc. Hi, Michael LeBlanc. It's all about you today.
So you warned me. Hello, Edith. How are you?
(00:27):
You have been warned. I've got to pick that brain. Are you okay with that?
I think I am. I'm actually really good about it because I've spent the entire day focusing on
other people's problems. It's time to be a little introspective. I'm okay with that.
It's time for a little mental self-care and hopefully it helps. I'm not even going to say
(00:47):
hopefully it helps. It's going to help someone.
Nice.
So I'm down with that.
Are you ready for the first question?
We're just straight into it. Yes, please.
I am. I want to know right now in your present state of mind, given a trigger from your childhood
(01:14):
or your past, how do you work through that mentally and emotionally? And how did you use to
navigate that space?
There are a few triggers that I've come to recognize thanks to the miracle therapy.
And there are still some that kind of set me off. I'll give you a good example.
(01:43):
For most of my childhood growing up, cleaning wasn't necessarily something that was done,
like general housekeeping. There was laundry and stuff like that. But I'm talking about
keeping the place tidy and neat, unless something important was going to happen.
And that's something important was always when the grandparents showed up because mom did
(02:05):
her best to keep them away. And so whenever they showed up, she wanted to give this facade of
everything's fine and perfect. And so it would be this big rush to get everything done. And she'd
be like, you have to do this, you have to do this. And by the time I got to where I was like
15, 16, I got to a point where I was just like, I'm going to clean, but I'm going to leave certain
(02:28):
stuff out. The last time my dad, my granddad ever entered my room, he got to see a pinup,
not not even a pinup. This was just a straight pornographic calendar hanging on my wall. And
he walked in and my poor ex-pastor of a grandfather, he walks in, he sees that, he just goes,
oh, then then turns around and walked back in. So what that did to me as I found out later on is
(02:53):
that cleaning still didn't become like a big priority to me. Like again, I do the essentials,
but as far as keeping everything else, I wouldn't really like do it unless something big was happening,
like somebody was coming over or mostly that's it. If anybody comes over. And so I would get
(03:16):
upset. I would get like just irritated and even more so if somebody else was in the room,
because they're not cleaning with the same kind of intensity that I am. And that irritation would
turn to anger. And then very quickly, like in a span of like minutes turn into resentment of like,
I don't understand why you're not cleaning the way that I am, or you are cleaning, but you're
(03:38):
cleaning wrong. You're not making things a priority. And it's all internalized. As I've gotten older,
I have learned and by that, I mean, as I've gone to therapy, I have learned that these are coming
from me. They're not coming from anybody else. The irritation is not coming from them. If I am
(04:02):
getting irritated because of a perceived thing that I think that they need to do, one, I haven't
talked it through. You know, I haven't foist my problems. I haven't made my emotions known to them,
partly because I don't want to be a bother at the same time, which those are warring conflicts.
(04:23):
And so if that's the case, then why should I be angry at them? And I've learned to,
it's kind of like letting go of the idea of mind reading, which you should never do because we're
just not good at it. We can read cues all we want, but it doesn't necessarily mean what they're thinking.
I'm bad at those. And also, yeah, yeah, me too. And then the other one is to talk to them and go,
(04:51):
hey, I know I seem upset right now, but it's just me getting in a cleaning mood. Maybe if I put on
some music right now, is that going to bother you? And of course, almost always the answer is I know.
Unless they're on the phone with somebody or something like that. It was always assuming the
worst and knowing where that came from, knowing that, again, a lot of things came from the way
(05:13):
that I dealt with my parents or my parents dealt with me, has made me, I think, a healthier person.
I love that. I love that. That must be a big one for you, for you to have that like right
in your mind. That has to be a big deal. Yeah, because it's part of keeping a better relationship
(05:37):
because not only does it come out in matters of cleaning, but it also comes to just like,
you know, hey, I wanted to do this, but say that it's been a long week for me. I want to play video
games on Saturday. And then they come up to me and the question is a genuine question of, hey,
do you want to go with me? It's okay if you don't. Sometimes I don't hear that as it's okay if you
(06:02):
don't. I hear that sentence as if you don't go, I'm going to be upset with you. And then I'll get
upset. And so it's gotten to the point where I'm okay to say, no, I'm good because I'm my own adult.
They're their own adult. If we haven't seen each other all week, chances are I'm going to say yes
anyway that I do want to go with them. But like, let's say that, you know, we've seen each other,
(06:24):
you know, and I just want to, I want this time to myself. It really is about coming into a state of
knowing that I'm an adult because there are still times in my life that I still don't feel like the
adult in the room, even though that I'm sure about what I'm doing, I'll slip into management roles
all the time because I got really good at that. But like, still sometimes I feel like I'm just like
(06:47):
three, you know, kids in a suit jacket just walking around going taxes, taxes, money, yes,
must fuck in for work. Oh my God. But I think I'm pretty sure we're all just still feeling that some
of us may be less than others. And if they say that they don't have it at all, I think they may
be lying to themselves because you can't be confident in everything. Can you? I don't think you can.
(07:13):
Well, there's confidence and then there is secure in the fact that I know what the hell I'm doing.
You know what I mean? Okay, fair. Fair, yeah. You don't really call it confidence, but there's
enough repetition. Like my partner says to me, he goes, it's, I'm so lucky I don't have a thought
(07:36):
in my head. That's what he tells me. So I'll feel better because I'm the one with all the thoughts
in my head. Yeah, I got you. I got you. I'm the only one thinking in our family. So apparently.
Some people just live by reaction alone. I guess. So in your journey, you have come out
(08:01):
as bisexual and it's a very positive experience because your spouse is on board and things
and gives you positive reinforcement and is reassuring and kind. Can you tell me a situation
where you have felt insecure about communicating? Like I understand it's, it's,
(08:28):
it's like you felt it's complicated to say, to talk because I know a lot of people listening.
That's where their biggest problem is. Like they find it very hard to find their voice.
Yeah, I can speak to this in a couple of different ways. I'll try to make them quick.
You don't have to. Just informative. Take up the entire rest of the show with it.
(08:52):
Yeah. Yeah. No. So this relationship that I'm in, I wanted to go ahead and give a slight
qualifier to that this is, it's not my first marriage. I have learned from other relationships
and most notably my last marriage was 14 years on what works on actual working with a human being.
(09:16):
And of course, you can't take a one for one because human beings aren't the same. You can't
just take what you've learned here and automatically apply it here. I'm not going to say I didn't
think that at first, but I quickly, I and Marley quickly proved me wrong.
It's not a cookie-cutter deal. No, I had problems. It is not. But I did learn on things as far as
(09:38):
like how to be open, what to expect out of another person and what to say and what not to say. Even
if you feel like it's a good joke, sometimes you may not want to say it, but I digress. So coming out
came in stages. The first time I came out to my first wife, it was not great. And I've seen these
(10:03):
kinds of stories on Reddit where they say that they came out at a later time and that their spouse
either A, ignored them or B, started immediately expressing fears. It's like, well, if you like
the opposite sex and I'm not that, how are you going to be happy or are you going to cheat on me?
There's a bunch of other things that come up as well, but it can foster insecurity. I got ignored.
(10:29):
And I think it was because there was too much going on at the same time. I just come back out of
the deployment. See, I was in the Navy at the time. She was holding everything down. She was
going through her own stuff, which was affecting our relationship at the time too. And she just
looked at me and she's like, so on top of everything else, this is what you're coming at me with.
And boy, did that hurt. I don't know if you've seen that little meme where that little blob comes
(10:55):
out of the box. He's like, I think I'm ready to experience the world. And then something comes
along and like punches. But yeah, I put myself back in my box. It was like, well, there's no need to
tell anybody about this. Just let my fantasies be fantasies and I'll just live with them, I guess.
And later on, after I got out of the Navy, after we settled into the state where we would live
(11:17):
out the rest of our relationship, didn't know that at the time, but I just brought it up to her again.
Like this, this hasn't gone away. I would like to maybe get some toys to experiment and see exactly
what I like, see exactly where these kinks go in my head to see how I can include you in them,
to see if it is a fantasy or if it actually is something that I really, you know, am like,
(11:45):
yeah. So, you know, bringing in another person was never really a deal for like, it wasn't a part
of what we wanted to do. We were to, I guess, selfish for each other, but in a good way, you
know, like, hey, you're the one I want. I'm the one you want. Let's figure out what we can do together.
We don't want to get a third person in this. And so she tried. I think I made her more uncomfortable
(12:09):
than not, you know, especially during some of the experimental stuff in the bedroom and whatnot.
There was no more negativity about it, which was cool. And there was no ignoring it. It was like,
okay, it is what it is. If you want to explore this on your own time, that's fine. Kind of
weirds me out, but I have no problem with you buying toys or anything else like that. Just,
(12:30):
and she looked at me kind of half smiling, half joking. She's like, just don't go find another guy.
And I'm like, I don't want that. But from there, it got a little bit easier for me to think that I
could tell other people about who I was. So I tried on the first two people who were closer to me
under my wife. And that was my brother, Michael, brother from another mother. Hence why his name
(12:53):
Michael. My mom wasn't just mad enough to name two kids, Michael. I'm just gonna name a wife, Michael.
That way when I yell, they both come. It's easier that way. No. So him and also my mom.
And so I went mom first. And there had been some revelation beforehand, some sexual assaults that
(13:17):
had happened for her when she was not in her right mind. Not excusing it, but it is what it was.
She was, yeah. And so some things happened between us that I didn't remember. But mom came out and
she wound up telling some people that were close to me. Those people came in to me and was like,
Hey, your mom's not right in the head right now. Because she had just like had some seizures and
(13:40):
whatnot. But she's saying some stuff that sounds pretty solid. Like it doesn't sound like she's
dreaming this off. And so, you know, and so we find out from there. So immediately after I tell my
mom that, Hey, I'm more or less by curious, I guess, because I've never really experienced anything.
I'm still trying to figure that out. But I feel very strongly that I'm actually
(14:03):
bisexual. Like the things I dream up seem to really get me going. And there's no shame afterwards. So
that's that that might be a sign that what's going on in my head is real. And she immediately goes,
Oh, I did this to you. She took the blame. She was feeling the guilt and shame over that.
(14:26):
Right. And like she had caused an affliction upon me that caused like a mutation or an
aberrant that would show up later in life for me or something. And I'm like, maybe. I mean,
who knows psychologically, maybe this this trigger something. And then I associated with the fact that
you know, dudes are pretty cool. But the fact is that the fact that in my mind, that I get,
(14:48):
you know, aroused by looking at both women and men, and sometimes the the wild colors and shapes
in between, there's something there that I would want to explore. I don't I don't blame you. I mean,
what happened happened, but it's not like I'm holding that well. She wore that as like a martyr's
(15:09):
necklace for like two years. And she wouldn't let it go. And she don't really want to want to talk
about it. During that time, while she's healing, you know, coming to grips with it with herself,
you know, I decided to come out to my brother, which after the kind of trepidation between my mom,
I didn't know how that was going to go. Because my brother is such like a lumberjack, straight
(15:31):
lace dude. Like his biggest secret that I recently found out is that he'd been smoking since he was
15. Like there were like when it comes to his sexuality, the man sure of himself, burly and
bearded. And at one point, I thought I had a crush on him. But no, that wasn't a thing. But I came
out to him one time, we were driving to his house. And I was I was stumbling all over my words. I was
(15:55):
humming and awing and tapping on the dashboard ahead of me and fumbling with my fingers. And then
finally he's like, Are you dying or something? Like what's what's happening to you? I know
I'm
I'm bisexual. And I just let the silence hang. And I didn't look at him. But as if I had, I'm pretty
(16:20):
sure I would have seen him just staring at me like sideways like this. Because all I hear
after like two or three minutes of us driving down the road and he goes, Are you, is that it?
And that those three words right there filled me with like so much relief. Right. Because it's more
(16:41):
it's more to us than it is to other people. And did he say I knew it all the time?
No, he actually said that when I told him that I think I might have attention problems. He said that.
(17:02):
But he didn't seem surprised, which lead me to believe that maybe that was like in his head at
that point. You know, but I don't know. I've never I've never asked anybody who I've ever told is
like, Hey, did I ever seem anything other than straight? Because looking back on it, I feel
like that's a pretty solid answer that yes, I wasn't either I was just an abnormal kid or I
(17:26):
wasn't necessarily all the way straight. Like even my parents were asking me before I graduated is
like, Are you sure you're just not gay or something like that? And you just don't want to tell us
because I hadn't had a girlfriend up until like 18. But it wasn't a priority. So I love that. That's
that's the best story ever. It really is because I had a similar situation with my family on my
(17:52):
uncle, like my uncle, my cousins. And I called my cousin Cody up and I said,
you know, Hey, I'm autistic. I have ADHD. I'm OCD. And oh, yeah, by the way, I'm gay. And he said,
Oh, Edith, we knew, you know, we knew this the whole time.
(18:18):
Just waiting for you to say it. Right. I needed to say it. Did you feel like you needed to say it
to feel whole and complete? To at least those three people in my life at that time. Yeah,
because I mean, those are the people who I talked with the most and everything. And I also knew that
that for each of those instances, they had family who they weren't going to tell because they know
(18:44):
that some of their family members would either see it negatively or kind of ostracize before it.
And so I wanted to at least tell those people because I didn't want to just like,
it just kind of getting blurted out and then everybody find out I wanted it to be kind of
controlled in a way. I don't regret the way that happened. I regret, I regret the first time,
(19:09):
obviously, you know, maybe he told us like, this is what we're dealing with right now.
That one kind of sucked. But I also really probably chose like the worst time because we were not
like emotionally solid like at all at that moment, you know. And I was just like, I've always been
one to kind of blurt things out. That's in my mind. Yeah. And so that's kind of what happened there.
(19:35):
But after that, after I told those three people, there was like, I was comfortable enough, I was
in this space enough for me to go ahead and like on all of my social medias. Because at that point,
I was still I was starting to really build up on different social platforms, not necessarily to be
where I am right now, but everybody was kind of doing it, you know, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,
(19:58):
right. And so I put out, I put out there as like, hey, no, no posts or anything. I just kind of moved
all of my sexual preferences. That's perfect. And so if at that point, yeah. And so if anybody
wanted to know, if anybody actually looked back up the page that far, because everybody's doing
excessive scrolling, but if anybody ever did look, they would know it's like, okay, this guy's bisexual.
(20:22):
And I got, I think I got maybe one question out of it. And that was somebody who I went to school
with. And she was like, I do it. And it's like, that's cool. Me and you barely talked. Why are we
talking? Do you know they just pop out of the woodwork? I'm telling you, friends, popped out of
the woodwork. I did the same thing. Like I just went on social media and I changed all my, my,
(20:49):
he's my husband's still, we're still married. I came out to him. And I was like, I am not backing
down from this description of myself. Did you have a similar instance where you had, you felt that
way too? Like, hey, I'm not backing down from this. It really helped after those first, after
(21:10):
those two years of my mom, like, accepting it, taking that time to accept it and coming back.
And then the conversation opened up because we, her and I had always had, she, she and me, whatever.
Anyway, we always had really good open conversations when it comes to sexuality.
Especially as we got older, I found out things about her past. And
(21:32):
she always wanted to know, like, you know, once she confirmed the fact that it had sex for the
first time, she was like, well, how was it? You know, like she was, she was always really open
with that. And so I got to get that mom. Yeah, I got to get that part of my mom back when she came
back. And after those two years, I mean, we talked in between, but it was always
(21:57):
like there was an elephant, there was definitely an elephant in the room. But
yeah, we had just talked about a big elephant. But then she came back, she was like, yeah,
and she was like, Hey, I want to talk about this. And that's the moment when I was like,
cool, if this is solid in my life right now, you know, didn't have the best relationship with my
parents, but that, but the openness was always something that I really cherished. And once that
(22:21):
came back, when we were able to talk about everything, I was like, yeah, this, this is, this is
cool. This is when I can, you know, just accept this as being if anybody comes up, I could be open
with them. It's like, yeah, I am bisexual, you know, and, and no, just because you're asking me,
I'm not attracted to you. That's not how this works. There was a solidifying much later. And
(22:42):
that happened, I think, actually this year, which I really began to, I mean, I was happy with it.
I was willing to talk to anybody about it. But this year is the first year I was willing to
actually celebrate it. And it's funny, I'm getting whispers of other people getting back to my wife
and other people going, Hey, they're all asking me, what's this up? What's up with all this bisexual
(23:03):
talk? And I tell them, I was like, I think it's pretty self-explanatory. And I love her for that.
Because she, she knew this by my wife, she knew that I was bisexual, like, because it was one of
things I first put out, because it put off a couple of other people that I was trying to talk to
at the time after I got separated. And so I'd let off with that, which is kind of funny, because
(23:28):
it's one of the reasons why we are the name of our thing is that you don't normally lead off with
hi, my name is Michael and bisexual. And I feel like in the online dating scene, you kind of had to.
Yeah, that was one of the first things I told my partner. That was one of the very first things.
And all of the fears bubbled up. And one of the, one of the first things he said was like,
(23:53):
why don't you go be with a woman? I said, because I'm with you. Because I love you.
Is that a good answer? I don't know. But I, I,
It's a perfectly acceptable answer. And you know, the only thing you could do at that point is just
hope that the other person that you're telling that to goes, yeah, you're right. That is
(24:15):
acceptable answer. Well, you know, we all have to navigate a relationship. What makes us comfortable?
And he and I did break up. It was a very odd breakup. But we still live together and we
still love each other. And that's where I'm navigating from. I don't have any more expectations
(24:37):
than that. If that's all you can give me fine, I'll take that. I'll take care of myself and
my personal life. But I want an intimate relationship with someone like you have with
your wife. I think that's a very loving, intimate relationship.
It is. It's a loving intimate relationship that also challenges me. And I think it's part of the
(24:59):
reason why I love it so much. Because it's not all saccharine sweet, lovey-dovey all the time.
And in fact, I've come to recognize and be okay with her when sometimes she's like, don't touch me.
I'm like, understandable. Like sometimes it's too hot to touch or she's just not feeling it.
(25:19):
That's very hard to be in there. So your love language is like...
Back hurts. Back hurts. You know, tired.
Or sometimes she'll be, she'll be in her feelings and she'll just be like, hey, you know, I'm just,
just not feeling right now. But I want to be, I want to be next to you. Is that okay?
Can you stand being next to me even though I'm like this? And a lot of times, like, you know,
(25:42):
say she's, she's feeling premenstrual, you know, or hormones or going on. Like, she's always,
she's, she let me know, like when it was first, when we first got together that she had horrible
BMS. Like she would just be really upset, quick to anger. And when that time comes, don't shy away
from her. Feel free to bite back at her. And I'm like, that's not me. As I've gotten used to this
(26:07):
relationship, however, I've gotten more comfortable with it. And there's a hint of like, like,
satisfaction in her face whenever she like barks at me. And I bark back and she's like, yeah,
okay, this is right. Everything is, everything is where it needs to be. And I'm like, you're,
you're not duckling, but I love you. This is not great. Oh my God. It is.
(26:29):
You ready for the next question? Yes. Yes. So we had someone caught right in. And one of the
biggest questions, did you know that you were bisexual when you were in the Navy? Because this
person wants to know what the climate was for queer people in the military. What is it like?
(26:56):
I feel like I may have an interest in cross section that may not apply to a whole lot of
other people in the military. But I'll tell you my story about that. I knew that I wasn't exactly
playing with the straightest of cards, but I didn't really think I was like bisexual until
(27:17):
I was out on our first deployment. And I started getting a crush on somebody who I worked with a
lot. I've always been one of those developed crushes, though, like sexual or platonic. I'm,
I'm really wanted to like, if I like a person, I start thinking is like, Hey, you're really cool.
I want to spend more time with you. But the things that I was thinking about started popping up
(27:42):
with more genitalia than I thought that I ever would think about. So I started playing around
with those images, you know, just kind of entertaining them in my own time as I as men do.
And I just kind of came to the realization, you know, this, like I said, it happened out my first
tour. I told my wife after the first tour, but it was while I was out there. I was, I was like,
(28:04):
yeah, I'm comfortable with the idea of thinking that I'm at least by curious at this point.
Didn't really have to feel like I had to tell anybody because where I was was back in the,
the rear, the the app section of the USS enterprise. And there was an interesting error
(28:27):
of playful homosexuality that came mostly it was it became a stereotype of the electron
X mates because there was three three rates that lived close together. There was the electronic
technicians. That was me. There was the EMs, those were the mechanics, the knuckle draggers,
if you will. And then there was the electronics mates. And those are the ones that deal with
(28:47):
like the the generators and everything. So the stuff in between us. And it came out that there
were a couple of people more than one or two people. And then there was the electronics
and it came out that there were a couple of people more than a couple of people who were EMs
that were either bisexual or queer of some nature, like how, how queer, where,
(29:12):
where they were on the rainbow that wasn't really being discussed, but just the fact that they were.
And instead of it being like derision, I think maybe it was because we were all just kind of
like playful nerds for the most part. There were some assholes in there, but those assholes really
didn't have anything much to do with us back there. They just did their business while they're on the
(29:35):
ship. It became kind of like a, I don't know, I wouldn't say like a verbal game, but just kind
of like an understanding that not everybody back there was straight and nobody felt threatened by
it. And then the Marines were brought on board and they got, and they were stationed like either
(29:56):
two levels down from us, one level down from us. And they got wind that there were, you know,
possible homosexual, queer, whatever they were up above them. And so when we would all come out
at the same time to go to a mess and eat, there was like palpable, thick, ropey tension in between
(30:22):
everybody. And like when they saw the nukes coming, that's who we were, the nukes. When they saw the
nukes coming, they would get all uncomfortable, like push themselves up against the wall or like
some of them would be like, get one where like they'd be shoving and whatnot. Now that's the
first time we got some real good taste of like, like military homophobia. We didn't have to deal
with them all that much. But if there ever were any tensions, it was right there in that bottleneck
(30:45):
from our birthing to where we go stand in line to go get our trays. Some really deplorable language
would be passed back and forth most notably the one that always grinds my gears. And that would be
the the Efsler when it comes for queers and. Exactly. Look, it's been my experience that the
(31:06):
very people that are the most homophobic are homosexuals themselves. A closeted behavior.
Yeah. I mean, it's been my experience. So. Yeah. I mean, I feel like we've all kind of ran
to keep using nautical terms, ran ashore of that when it comes to like high school and whatnot,
(31:28):
because like you'll find out that like a bully who is like notoriously a bigot towards like
everybody turned out to be, you know, a closeted person of some kind. They didn't happen all the
time, but you definitely heard stories, especially as you got older. And he's like, Oh, really?
Ben used to push everybody around. He's got husband. Right. What's happening with him? And then
(31:52):
I always come back with that whenever I find out I was like, Well, at least he's found his piece.
Well, we've got a friend who was used to travel back and forth to Turkey and went to
an all male, an all male school with my brother. And he is gay. And he and his husband live in
(32:18):
Portland, Oregon. And when I say I've always known, I've always known, always knew. And I went to see
for I went to Portland to see my brother. And he took me to lunch. And we got to speak with one
another. He was just a lovely, lovely human being. Yeah, that's great. The worst part is watching
(32:43):
somebody tear themselves apart with with so much like negativity that you can just tell they're
not happy the moment you see him. There was a gentleman who went to school with a very effeminate
male. And that doesn't necessarily mean that you're gay or queer or anything, you know,
affect how you're going to affect. But he didn't ever have a girlfriend. You know, a lot of us
(33:06):
were thinking is like, Hey, you know, if you're gay, it's okay. And the venom that he would spew
whenever you even brought the idea up to him was so yeah, you could tell it was burning him
as much as it was everybody else around him. He would come to school like so negative like
first he'd come in with his head high and then like it would only take two comments for him to
(33:28):
just be like angry and and so and just so withdrawn immediately. It took a couple years after high
school. You got into college, I guess he got comfortable with himself and the next thing you
know, he goes, Yeah, I've always been gay. And we're like, Oh my god, we know. We're so happy for
you now. The anger stops. Isn't it so funny? The anger stops and the and the compassion
(33:56):
starts to come in. Yeah. And you just start to have compassion for people that you wouldn't
normally have had compassion for. Because he didn't he was he was angry towards everybody. The only
people he wasn't angry with was like the the snipe cheerleaders that he hung out with. And they would
just all pick each other apart and pick everybody else apart around them. And they would be like
(34:19):
hanging out in solidarity due to bitchiness. And we were just like, we wanted so much more from
that. And I'm glad that he finally got it. I I'd like to think that what happened is that he got
away from influences that made him feel like if he was because somebody obviously that he was
hanging out with was making him feel that him being his true self was not going to be good for him.
(34:42):
And it sounds like looks like that he got away from that. And whether it was maybe family or
maybe just somebody who is like in his life all the time, just because you know, we're small
school, we're going to be pretty much in the same classes as we grew up. And maybe he just
that was the way of his protecting himself. It was like watching somebody like try to clean
(35:04):
themselves off with acid. It was sad. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. I mean, back to the military aspect
of it, I would say that as long as you don't rub it in and try to make everybody use your pronouns
and wear rainbow outfits and sparkly shoes and talk about unicorns and fairy dust.
(35:32):
I mean, you're with a bunch of animals. Okay. I remember being in the military for like a minute.
That's all that it took was one minute. And then I was like, I'm out. Peace. Good luck. Yeah. Animals.
Yeah. I felt the animals. Boo camp was filled full of people who showed up from all different types
(35:58):
of areas around the country. And when they got together, all the germs that you've never had
from one area, you suddenly just inhale. And so everybody gets what's called the Ricky flu,
short for recruit Ricky flu. And it's horrible. It's it's crud. It sticks around for you around
and it takes saps like your oxygen away from you for half the time. That's kind of what the mentality
(36:25):
is. Once you get out of that, once you get done with boot camp and you're going out there,
everybody is not only just now bringing their germs, but they're also bringing their
ideology. They're bringing with whatever they grew up with because, yeah, sure, they got indoctrinated.
They're in the military now. They've learned how to how to march. They've learned how to, for some
(36:46):
instances, how to hold guns, but prejudices and ways of thinking they start getting more comfortable
like that. I can be more me now. That's when you do find out that, yeah, you shouldn't be telling
everything to everybody because somebody who you thought you were cool with, you know, during,
say, boot camp or maybe the very beginning of wherever you happen to go, your EOS, your school,
(37:10):
wherever you're going, you know, you start to realize is like, hey, this guy's actually kind of a
dick. I think that's why it was so cool that even though we all have like a bunch of different
people back there in the nuke birthing, there were as many as there were assholes, they were also,
you know, we're all here because we're smart enough to be in this. That kind of sometimes,
(37:35):
you know, held people together. Of course, cliques would form in that, but it was still all, you
know, we're back here, we're nukes, we're doing what we're supposed to do. If you're not doing
what you're supposed to do, that's a whole different thing. You can read about that in my book if you
want to, but there's a whole lot of depression and whatnot around that. But there was still a kind
(37:55):
of solidarity that, you know, don't mess with the nuke. The only person who can mess with this nuke
who's not doing great is me because I happen to be a nuke. Like if you're an airdale, if you're a
cook, if you're a marine, how about you go handle your own? We're handling our own back here.
That in itself was kind of nice. At least you knew who you were going to be, I'm going to be around.
(38:17):
You knew which assholes to avoid. There was no real kind of like guessing.
They were transparent about their asshole-ness. Yeah, yeah, because they're like, you know,
this is it. This is who we are. Also, when you're a nuke, your time is pretty much spent
being in the plant and then going to eat and going to sleep. Then you just kind of keep rotating.
(38:45):
So it's really easy to not get to know the other divisions of the ship. It's not like,
I was really lucky enough to get to know one airdale, a guy who is in the airplane maintenance
division. I think I got to know one sonar tech. Everybody else was just different shades of
(39:07):
nuclear train personnel. Right. Oh my God, that's it. Sounds like so much work.
Just being around. It definitely could have been if I had applied myself more often. It
probably would have been a heck of a lot more. Oh, geez. Well, I'm thinking, I mean,
from what you're telling me, as long as you didn't give a shit what other people bought and you just
(39:31):
did your thing and did your time in the military, and that's that. And I'm sure you get off base.
I'm sure you could go to a gay club or something like that. Just as long as you don't do it on the
base. Yeah. And then definitely weren't any on the base as far as I know. But then again,
(39:54):
I wasn't really digging in for that. But there are probably more than enough places for that around
in Virginia. I mean, they're all walks of life. They were transitioning or at least cross-dressing
depending on who they were and who they were asking money from hookers on the walk. Not a
(40:16):
short distance away from our house. There were a lot of what would have just been called like
gay encounter culture at that time. But I never sought it out because I mean, I was being paid
attention to simply because of the fact that I wasn't doing well. So to add that on top of that,
yeah, no, I would have that would have had an unnecessary complication. Those who were doing
(40:40):
well, you know, doing their job well, people didn't care who you are, what you did as long as you
just hear, I mean, you're right. You just apply yourself. Just do your part and hold your own
and don't talk out of turn. That's what a relationship is like too. Like for me now,
(41:01):
I realize that. Well, I mean, at times, I mean, I don't know for me, I've got to be me. There's
certain work that has to get done in order to make any relationship work. But I feel like I can be
quirky and myself enough that I know that I'm just going to be like, looked at like,
(41:24):
I don't understand the thing you're doing right now. Like me, I'm so online that I know so many
random online and real life trivia things. And Marley, she's like, I don't care. I want to
enjoy my shows and whatnot. And that alone causes divide sometimes because like, Hey, did you see
this video? She'd be like, no, I know what you're talking about. I'm like, Oh my God, it's been
online forever. I know what you're saying. It's almost like though, it's comfortable. I get it.
(41:52):
I have certain shows that I watch to put me to sleep. They're mundane, you know, those half hour
comedy series on TV, like Bob Burtz Abashola, Young Sheldon, Big Bang Theory. I mean, I watch that
stuff. And it's just easy. I don't watch Housewives because I can't stand to see women argue. I think
(42:20):
it's it's inappropriate. There's no need for it. It's unnecessary drama. There's no need for that.
If I wanted to listen to that kind of drama, I would actually pay more attention to some of the
grumblings that happen on and, you know, in where I work, you know, because and you think guys don't
bring drama, they do. They just try to laugh it off more. But it's there. Oh, man, is it there?
(42:45):
It's there. I try to ignore it. So it's hard to do sometimes, especially when my job, as I found
out, is to strategically eavesdrop because some things need to get told to my boss that don't
actually get to them. They stop shortly before and is my job to kind of pick them up and deliver
(43:06):
them over. Sometimes like, Hey, I heard so and so talking about this. Is this something that you need
to do? Which is it's small enough office. You don't think I'd have to do that. But it's important
thing to do. I could keep talking about myself forever. But I know that we only have so much time.
And since I feel like that these are going to go up in order, I would love to ask and inform
(43:31):
other people on how you're going to ask. Oh, well, thank you. You're welcome. Ask the ask.
He's actually so Monday he has a doctor's appointment. And it's with the urologist and
that it's to get down. He had an he had sepsis. So he was really infected. But he's been so good,
(43:52):
like eating a vegan diet. He's doing this for me. It's not entirely vegan because I made him.
It's not a vegan diet, obviously, because I made him bone broth, warm bone broth with carrots and
garlic and salt and pepper and just like all this onions and just it's good good for him. And
(44:16):
instead of coffee, he's been drinking that his blood sugar has been perfect, his blood pressure
are perfect. The pain has been zero. Okay, so I just wanted to get him to that doctor's appointment
so he could feel confident. And I really want to show him how to take better care of himself
(44:41):
so that he doesn't have to have me here because I know it's a lot for him and it's a lot for me
because I live in Florida. Oh, yeah. So yeah. Yeah, but he's although this year, it probably
doesn't feel like it. Right. No, I don't feel like I have a home. How's that? I know you're
you're you're definitely a leaf. I'm a little homeless at this point.
(45:05):
It's just a little home. But it's cool. I've had a lot of TikTok family
checking in on me, my cousins checking in on my and my dad, I want to say the TikTok family
checking on my dad and checking on me. And then my cousins and then I've got this little cat
(45:32):
right here. Yeah, under my little cat. And she looks she sleeps with me at night.
Who's cat is this? Stepmother's cat. Yeah, her name is Christine. My stepmother's name is Christine.
The cat's name is baby blue. Hey, now there's a name. Oh my God. And she follows me everywhere
(45:56):
into the bathroom into the bedroom. That's what I you know, that's what I call my cat, right?
Like his name is blue. But I call him I call him he has a few names, actually. He has baby blue.
He has bubbles. He has tiny bubbles, bubble is just blue fist. And here recently, much to my
(46:22):
wife's chagrin, because I call her close to these nicknames, but I don't call her these nicknames
back to back. I've been calling him sweetie baby. Because because he he needs all the love. And
when he had butts, he goes for kisses like he hits the lips. So I I'm a big fan of the kind of back
(46:46):
and forth nature that you can get with a cat, especially if you get one who resonates with
you because they are following you to the bathroom to, you know, to protect you in solidarity,
they're going to the bedroom because they know that's that's that's your dint. You know, the fact
that you even allow them in there is is a great honor to them. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah.
(47:06):
I you know, if you if you are willing to sleep around them, you're showing how comfortable
you are with them. And then they in turn will be in be comfortable with you. So like if a cat lays
around you and they have their back towards you, most of the time, they're like, it's cool,
you got my back. Like, I know nothing's going to happen. But if for some reason, like if a cat
(47:28):
sleeps with you and it's like always like facing you like head forward, it means it's like, we're
cool. We're cool. But like one wrong move, motherfucker, and it's on my cat sleeps with their
back to me. Well, there you go. You you have fostered the trust with the most honorable of four
legged beasts. That's really cool. Well, I might call us a fight with that statement. But you know,
(47:53):
I do, my friend. And that was a good closing closing with the kitty cat. I think so. I think so.
Well, Edith, we gotta do this again. My friend. Thank you so much. I'm glad we could do the
military bit. All right, peace out word to your mother. Absolutely. Have a good day, my dear.
(48:17):
You too. Namaste. Bye. Bye.
Well, my friend, I'm going to do a little bit of an introduction. Hello, how are you?
(00:05):
Please do.
Hello, this is Edith Ivey Rosenblatt of the Bisexual Coffee podcast with Edith and friends.
This is my friend Michael LeBlanc. Hi, Michael LeBlanc. It's all about you today.
So you warned me. Hello, Edith. How are you?
(00:27):
You have been warned. I've got to pick that brain. Are you okay with that?
I think I am. I'm actually really good about it because I've spent the entire day focusing on
other people's problems. It's time to be a little introspective. I'm okay with that.
It's time for a little mental self-care and hopefully it helps. I'm not even going to say
(00:47):
hopefully it helps. It's going to help someone.
Nice.
So I'm down with that.
Are you ready for the first question?
We're just straight into it. Yes, please.
I am. I want to know right now in your present state of mind, given a trigger from your childhood
(01:14):
or your past, how do you work through that mentally and emotionally? And how did you use to
navigate that space?
There are a few triggers that I've come to recognize thanks to the miracle therapy.
And there are still some that kind of set me off. I'll give you a good example.
(01:43):
For most of my childhood growing up, cleaning wasn't necessarily something that was done,
like general housekeeping. There was laundry and stuff like that. But I'm talking about
keeping the place tidy and neat, unless something important was going to happen.
And that's something important was always when the grandparents showed up because mom did
(02:05):
her best to keep them away. And so whenever they showed up, she wanted to give this facade of
everything's fine and perfect. And so it would be this big rush to get everything done. And she'd
be like, you have to do this, you have to do this. And by the time I got to where I was like
15, 16, I got to a point where I was just like, I'm going to clean, but I'm going to leave certain
(02:28):
stuff out. The last time my dad, my granddad ever entered my room, he got to see a pinup,
not not even a pinup. This was just a straight pornographic calendar hanging on my wall. And
he walked in and my poor ex-pastor of a grandfather, he walks in, he sees that, he just goes,
oh, then then turns around and walked back in. So what that did to me as I found out later on is
(02:53):
that cleaning still didn't become like a big priority to me. Like again, I do the essentials,
but as far as keeping everything else, I wouldn't really like do it unless something big was happening,
like somebody was coming over or mostly that's it. If anybody comes over. And so I would get
(03:16):
upset. I would get like just irritated and even more so if somebody else was in the room,
because they're not cleaning with the same kind of intensity that I am. And that irritation would
turn to anger. And then very quickly, like in a span of like minutes turn into resentment of like,
I don't understand why you're not cleaning the way that I am, or you are cleaning, but you're
(03:38):
cleaning wrong. You're not making things a priority. And it's all internalized. As I've gotten older,
I have learned and by that, I mean, as I've gone to therapy, I have learned that these are coming
from me. They're not coming from anybody else. The irritation is not coming from them. If I am
(04:02):
getting irritated because of a perceived thing that I think that they need to do, one, I haven't
talked it through. You know, I haven't foist my problems. I haven't made my emotions known to them,
partly because I don't want to be a bother at the same time, which those are warring conflicts.
(04:23):
And so if that's the case, then why should I be angry at them? And I've learned to,
it's kind of like letting go of the idea of mind reading, which you should never do because we're
just not good at it. We can read cues all we want, but it doesn't necessarily mean what they're thinking.
I'm bad at those. And also, yeah, yeah, me too. And then the other one is to talk to them and go,
(04:51):
hey, I know I seem upset right now, but it's just me getting in a cleaning mood. Maybe if I put on
some music right now, is that going to bother you? And of course, almost always the answer is I know.
Unless they're on the phone with somebody or something like that. It was always assuming the
worst and knowing where that came from, knowing that, again, a lot of things came from the way
(05:13):
that I dealt with my parents or my parents dealt with me, has made me, I think, a healthier person.
I love that. I love that. That must be a big one for you, for you to have that like right
in your mind. That has to be a big deal. Yeah, because it's part of keeping a better relationship
(05:37):
because not only does it come out in matters of cleaning, but it also comes to just like,
you know, hey, I wanted to do this, but say that it's been a long week for me. I want to play video
games on Saturday. And then they come up to me and the question is a genuine question of, hey,
do you want to go with me? It's okay if you don't. Sometimes I don't hear that as it's okay if you
(06:02):
don't. I hear that sentence as if you don't go, I'm going to be upset with you. And then I'll get
upset. And so it's gotten to the point where I'm okay to say, no, I'm good because I'm my own adult.
They're their own adult. If we haven't seen each other all week, chances are I'm going to say yes
anyway that I do want to go with them. But like, let's say that, you know, we've seen each other,
(06:24):
you know, and I just want to, I want this time to myself. It really is about coming into a state of
knowing that I'm an adult because there are still times in my life that I still don't feel like the
adult in the room, even though that I'm sure about what I'm doing, I'll slip into management roles
all the time because I got really good at that. But like, still sometimes I feel like I'm just like
(06:47):
three, you know, kids in a suit jacket just walking around going taxes, taxes, money, yes,
must fuck in for work. Oh my God. But I think I'm pretty sure we're all just still feeling that some
of us may be less than others. And if they say that they don't have it at all, I think they may
be lying to themselves because you can't be confident in everything. Can you? I don't think you can.
(07:13):
Well, there's confidence and then there is secure in the fact that I know what the hell I'm doing.
You know what I mean? Okay, fair. Fair, yeah. You don't really call it confidence, but there's
enough repetition. Like my partner says to me, he goes, it's, I'm so lucky I don't have a thought
(07:36):
in my head. That's what he tells me. So I'll feel better because I'm the one with all the thoughts
in my head. Yeah, I got you. I got you. I'm the only one thinking in our family. So apparently.
Some people just live by reaction alone. I guess. So in your journey, you have come out
(08:01):
as bisexual and it's a very positive experience because your spouse is on board and things
and gives you positive reinforcement and is reassuring and kind. Can you tell me a situation
where you have felt insecure about communicating? Like I understand it's, it's,
(08:28):
it's like you felt it's complicated to say, to talk because I know a lot of people listening.
That's where their biggest problem is. Like they find it very hard to find their voice.
Yeah, I can speak to this in a couple of different ways. I'll try to make them quick.
You don't have to. Just informative. Take up the entire rest of the show with it.
(08:52):
Yeah. Yeah. No. So this relationship that I'm in, I wanted to go ahead and give a slight
qualifier to that this is, it's not my first marriage. I have learned from other relationships
and most notably my last marriage was 14 years on what works on actual working with a human being.
(09:16):
And of course, you can't take a one for one because human beings aren't the same. You can't
just take what you've learned here and automatically apply it here. I'm not going to say I didn't
think that at first, but I quickly, I and Marley quickly proved me wrong.
It's not a cookie-cutter deal. No, I had problems. It is not. But I did learn on things as far as
(09:38):
like how to be open, what to expect out of another person and what to say and what not to say. Even
if you feel like it's a good joke, sometimes you may not want to say it, but I digress. So coming out
came in stages. The first time I came out to my first wife, it was not great. And I've seen these
(10:03):
kinds of stories on Reddit where they say that they came out at a later time and that their spouse
either A, ignored them or B, started immediately expressing fears. It's like, well, if you like
the opposite sex and I'm not that, how are you going to be happy or are you going to cheat on me?
There's a bunch of other things that come up as well, but it can foster insecurity. I got ignored.
(10:29):
And I think it was because there was too much going on at the same time. I just come back out of
the deployment. See, I was in the Navy at the time. She was holding everything down. She was
going through her own stuff, which was affecting our relationship at the time too. And she just
looked at me and she's like, so on top of everything else, this is what you're coming at me with.
And boy, did that hurt. I don't know if you've seen that little meme where that little blob comes
(10:55):
out of the box. He's like, I think I'm ready to experience the world. And then something comes
along and like punches. But yeah, I put myself back in my box. It was like, well, there's no need to
tell anybody about this. Just let my fantasies be fantasies and I'll just live with them, I guess.
And later on, after I got out of the Navy, after we settled into the state where we would live
(11:17):
out the rest of our relationship, didn't know that at the time, but I just brought it up to her again.
Like this, this hasn't gone away. I would like to maybe get some toys to experiment and see exactly
what I like, see exactly where these kinks go in my head to see how I can include you in them,
to see if it is a fantasy or if it actually is something that I really, you know, am like,
(11:45):
yeah. So, you know, bringing in another person was never really a deal for like, it wasn't a part
of what we wanted to do. We were to, I guess, selfish for each other, but in a good way, you
know, like, hey, you're the one I want. I'm the one you want. Let's figure out what we can do together.
We don't want to get a third person in this. And so she tried. I think I made her more uncomfortable
(12:09):
than not, you know, especially during some of the experimental stuff in the bedroom and whatnot.
There was no more negativity about it, which was cool. And there was no ignoring it. It was like,
okay, it is what it is. If you want to explore this on your own time, that's fine. Kind of
weirds me out, but I have no problem with you buying toys or anything else like that. Just,
(12:30):
and she looked at me kind of half smiling, half joking. She's like, just don't go find another guy.
And I'm like, I don't want that. But from there, it got a little bit easier for me to think that I
could tell other people about who I was. So I tried on the first two people who were closer to me
under my wife. And that was my brother, Michael, brother from another mother. Hence why his name
(12:53):
Michael. My mom wasn't just mad enough to name two kids, Michael. I'm just gonna name a wife, Michael.
That way when I yell, they both come. It's easier that way. No. So him and also my mom.
And so I went mom first. And there had been some revelation beforehand, some sexual assaults that
(13:17):
had happened for her when she was not in her right mind. Not excusing it, but it is what it was.
She was, yeah. And so some things happened between us that I didn't remember. But mom came out and
she wound up telling some people that were close to me. Those people came in to me and was like,
Hey, your mom's not right in the head right now. Because she had just like had some seizures and
(13:40):
whatnot. But she's saying some stuff that sounds pretty solid. Like it doesn't sound like she's
dreaming this off. And so, you know, and so we find out from there. So immediately after I tell my
mom that, Hey, I'm more or less by curious, I guess, because I've never really experienced anything.
I'm still trying to figure that out. But I feel very strongly that I'm actually
(14:03):
bisexual. Like the things I dream up seem to really get me going. And there's no shame afterwards. So
that's that that might be a sign that what's going on in my head is real. And she immediately goes,
Oh, I did this to you. She took the blame. She was feeling the guilt and shame over that.
(14:26):
Right. And like she had caused an affliction upon me that caused like a mutation or an
aberrant that would show up later in life for me or something. And I'm like, maybe. I mean,
who knows psychologically, maybe this this trigger something. And then I associated with the fact that
you know, dudes are pretty cool. But the fact is that the fact that in my mind, that I get,
(14:48):
you know, aroused by looking at both women and men, and sometimes the the wild colors and shapes
in between, there's something there that I would want to explore. I don't I don't blame you. I mean,
what happened happened, but it's not like I'm holding that well. She wore that as like a martyr's
(15:09):
necklace for like two years. And she wouldn't let it go. And she don't really want to want to talk
about it. During that time, while she's healing, you know, coming to grips with it with herself,
you know, I decided to come out to my brother, which after the kind of trepidation between my mom,
I didn't know how that was going to go. Because my brother is such like a lumberjack, straight
(15:31):
lace dude. Like his biggest secret that I recently found out is that he'd been smoking since he was
15. Like there were like when it comes to his sexuality, the man sure of himself, burly and
bearded. And at one point, I thought I had a crush on him. But no, that wasn't a thing. But I came
out to him one time, we were driving to his house. And I was I was stumbling all over my words. I was
(15:55):
humming and awing and tapping on the dashboard ahead of me and fumbling with my fingers. And then
finally he's like, Are you dying or something? Like what's what's happening to you? I know
I'm
I'm bisexual. And I just let the silence hang. And I didn't look at him. But as if I had, I'm pretty
(16:20):
sure I would have seen him just staring at me like sideways like this. Because all I hear
after like two or three minutes of us driving down the road and he goes, Are you, is that it?
And that those three words right there filled me with like so much relief. Right. Because it's more
(16:41):
it's more to us than it is to other people. And did he say I knew it all the time?
No, he actually said that when I told him that I think I might have attention problems. He said that.
(17:02):
But he didn't seem surprised, which lead me to believe that maybe that was like in his head at
that point. You know, but I don't know. I've never I've never asked anybody who I've ever told is
like, Hey, did I ever seem anything other than straight? Because looking back on it, I feel
like that's a pretty solid answer that yes, I wasn't either I was just an abnormal kid or I
(17:26):
wasn't necessarily all the way straight. Like even my parents were asking me before I graduated is
like, Are you sure you're just not gay or something like that? And you just don't want to tell us
because I hadn't had a girlfriend up until like 18. But it wasn't a priority. So I love that. That's
that's the best story ever. It really is because I had a similar situation with my family on my
(17:52):
uncle, like my uncle, my cousins. And I called my cousin Cody up and I said,
you know, Hey, I'm autistic. I have ADHD. I'm OCD. And oh, yeah, by the way, I'm gay. And he said,
Oh, Edith, we knew, you know, we knew this the whole time.
(18:18):
Just waiting for you to say it. Right. I needed to say it. Did you feel like you needed to say it
to feel whole and complete? To at least those three people in my life at that time. Yeah,
because I mean, those are the people who I talked with the most and everything. And I also knew that
that for each of those instances, they had family who they weren't going to tell because they know
(18:44):
that some of their family members would either see it negatively or kind of ostracize before it.
And so I wanted to at least tell those people because I didn't want to just like,
it just kind of getting blurted out and then everybody find out I wanted it to be kind of
controlled in a way. I don't regret the way that happened. I regret, I regret the first time,
(19:09):
obviously, you know, maybe he told us like, this is what we're dealing with right now.
That one kind of sucked. But I also really probably chose like the worst time because we were not
like emotionally solid like at all at that moment, you know. And I was just like, I've always been
one to kind of blurt things out. That's in my mind. Yeah. And so that's kind of what happened there.
(19:35):
But after that, after I told those three people, there was like, I was comfortable enough, I was
in this space enough for me to go ahead and like on all of my social medias. Because at that point,
I was still I was starting to really build up on different social platforms, not necessarily to be
where I am right now, but everybody was kind of doing it, you know, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,
(19:58):
right. And so I put out, I put out there as like, hey, no, no posts or anything. I just kind of moved
all of my sexual preferences. That's perfect. And so if at that point, yeah. And so if anybody
wanted to know, if anybody actually looked back up the page that far, because everybody's doing
excessive scrolling, but if anybody ever did look, they would know it's like, okay, this guy's bisexual.
(20:22):
And I got, I think I got maybe one question out of it. And that was somebody who I went to school
with. And she was like, I do it. And it's like, that's cool. Me and you barely talked. Why are we
talking? Do you know they just pop out of the woodwork? I'm telling you, friends, popped out of
the woodwork. I did the same thing. Like I just went on social media and I changed all my, my,
(20:49):
he's my husband's still, we're still married. I came out to him. And I was like, I am not backing
down from this description of myself. Did you have a similar instance where you had, you felt that
way too? Like, hey, I'm not backing down from this. It really helped after those first, after
(21:10):
those two years of my mom, like, accepting it, taking that time to accept it and coming back.
And then the conversation opened up because we, her and I had always had, she, she and me, whatever.
Anyway, we always had really good open conversations when it comes to sexuality.
Especially as we got older, I found out things about her past. And
(21:32):
she always wanted to know, like, you know, once she confirmed the fact that it had sex for the
first time, she was like, well, how was it? You know, like she was, she was always really open
with that. And so I got to get that mom. Yeah, I got to get that part of my mom back when she came
back. And after those two years, I mean, we talked in between, but it was always
(21:57):
like there was an elephant, there was definitely an elephant in the room. But
yeah, we had just talked about a big elephant. But then she came back, she was like, yeah,
and she was like, Hey, I want to talk about this. And that's the moment when I was like,
cool, if this is solid in my life right now, you know, didn't have the best relationship with my
parents, but that, but the openness was always something that I really cherished. And once that
(22:21):
came back, when we were able to talk about everything, I was like, yeah, this, this is, this is
cool. This is when I can, you know, just accept this as being if anybody comes up, I could be open
with them. It's like, yeah, I am bisexual, you know, and, and no, just because you're asking me,
I'm not attracted to you. That's not how this works. There was a solidifying much later. And
(22:42):
that happened, I think, actually this year, which I really began to, I mean, I was happy with it.
I was willing to talk to anybody about it. But this year is the first year I was willing to
actually celebrate it. And it's funny, I'm getting whispers of other people getting back to my wife
and other people going, Hey, they're all asking me, what's this up? What's up with all this bisexual
(23:03):
talk? And I tell them, I was like, I think it's pretty self-explanatory. And I love her for that.
Because she, she knew this by my wife, she knew that I was bisexual, like, because it was one of
things I first put out, because it put off a couple of other people that I was trying to talk to
at the time after I got separated. And so I'd let off with that, which is kind of funny, because
(23:28):
it's one of the reasons why we are the name of our thing is that you don't normally lead off with
hi, my name is Michael and bisexual. And I feel like in the online dating scene, you kind of had to.
Yeah, that was one of the first things I told my partner. That was one of the very first things.
And all of the fears bubbled up. And one of the, one of the first things he said was like,
(23:53):
why don't you go be with a woman? I said, because I'm with you. Because I love you.
Is that a good answer? I don't know. But I, I,
It's a perfectly acceptable answer. And you know, the only thing you could do at that point is just
hope that the other person that you're telling that to goes, yeah, you're right. That is
(24:15):
acceptable answer. Well, you know, we all have to navigate a relationship. What makes us comfortable?
And he and I did break up. It was a very odd breakup. But we still live together and we
still love each other. And that's where I'm navigating from. I don't have any more expectations
(24:37):
than that. If that's all you can give me fine, I'll take that. I'll take care of myself and
my personal life. But I want an intimate relationship with someone like you have with
your wife. I think that's a very loving, intimate relationship.
It is. It's a loving intimate relationship that also challenges me. And I think it's part of the
(24:59):
reason why I love it so much. Because it's not all saccharine sweet, lovey-dovey all the time.
And in fact, I've come to recognize and be okay with her when sometimes she's like, don't touch me.
I'm like, understandable. Like sometimes it's too hot to touch or she's just not feeling it.
(25:19):
That's very hard to be in there. So your love language is like...
Back hurts. Back hurts. You know, tired.
Or sometimes she'll be, she'll be in her feelings and she'll just be like, hey, you know, I'm just,
just not feeling right now. But I want to be, I want to be next to you. Is that okay?
Can you stand being next to me even though I'm like this? And a lot of times, like, you know,
(25:42):
say she's, she's feeling premenstrual, you know, or hormones or going on. Like, she's always,
she's, she let me know, like when it was first, when we first got together that she had horrible
BMS. Like she would just be really upset, quick to anger. And when that time comes, don't shy away
from her. Feel free to bite back at her. And I'm like, that's not me. As I've gotten used to this
(26:07):
relationship, however, I've gotten more comfortable with it. And there's a hint of like, like,
satisfaction in her face whenever she like barks at me. And I bark back and she's like, yeah,
okay, this is right. Everything is, everything is where it needs to be. And I'm like, you're,
you're not duckling, but I love you. This is not great. Oh my God. It is.
(26:29):
You ready for the next question? Yes. Yes. So we had someone caught right in. And one of the
biggest questions, did you know that you were bisexual when you were in the Navy? Because this
person wants to know what the climate was for queer people in the military. What is it like?
(26:56):
I feel like I may have an interest in cross section that may not apply to a whole lot of
other people in the military. But I'll tell you my story about that. I knew that I wasn't exactly
playing with the straightest of cards, but I didn't really think I was like bisexual until
(27:17):
I was out on our first deployment. And I started getting a crush on somebody who I worked with a
lot. I've always been one of those developed crushes, though, like sexual or platonic. I'm,
I'm really wanted to like, if I like a person, I start thinking is like, Hey, you're really cool.
I want to spend more time with you. But the things that I was thinking about started popping up
(27:42):
with more genitalia than I thought that I ever would think about. So I started playing around
with those images, you know, just kind of entertaining them in my own time as I as men do.
And I just kind of came to the realization, you know, this, like I said, it happened out my first
tour. I told my wife after the first tour, but it was while I was out there. I was, I was like,
(28:04):
yeah, I'm comfortable with the idea of thinking that I'm at least by curious at this point.
Didn't really have to feel like I had to tell anybody because where I was was back in the,
the rear, the the app section of the USS enterprise. And there was an interesting error
(28:27):
of playful homosexuality that came mostly it was it became a stereotype of the electron
X mates because there was three three rates that lived close together. There was the electronic
technicians. That was me. There was the EMs, those were the mechanics, the knuckle draggers,
if you will. And then there was the electronics mates. And those are the ones that deal with
(28:47):
like the the generators and everything. So the stuff in between us. And it came out that there
were a couple of people more than one or two people. And then there was the electronics
and it came out that there were a couple of people more than a couple of people who were EMs
that were either bisexual or queer of some nature, like how, how queer, where,
(29:12):
where they were on the rainbow that wasn't really being discussed, but just the fact that they were.
And instead of it being like derision, I think maybe it was because we were all just kind of
like playful nerds for the most part. There were some assholes in there, but those assholes really
didn't have anything much to do with us back there. They just did their business while they're on the
(29:35):
ship. It became kind of like a, I don't know, I wouldn't say like a verbal game, but just kind
of like an understanding that not everybody back there was straight and nobody felt threatened by
it. And then the Marines were brought on board and they got, and they were stationed like either
(29:56):
two levels down from us, one level down from us. And they got wind that there were, you know,
possible homosexual, queer, whatever they were up above them. And so when we would all come out
at the same time to go to a mess and eat, there was like palpable, thick, ropey tension in between
(30:22):
everybody. And like when they saw the nukes coming, that's who we were, the nukes. When they saw the
nukes coming, they would get all uncomfortable, like push themselves up against the wall or like
some of them would be like, get one where like they'd be shoving and whatnot. Now that's the
first time we got some real good taste of like, like military homophobia. We didn't have to deal
with them all that much. But if there ever were any tensions, it was right there in that bottleneck
(30:45):
from our birthing to where we go stand in line to go get our trays. Some really deplorable language
would be passed back and forth most notably the one that always grinds my gears. And that would be
the the Efsler when it comes for queers and. Exactly. Look, it's been my experience that the
(31:06):
very people that are the most homophobic are homosexuals themselves. A closeted behavior.
Yeah. I mean, it's been my experience. So. Yeah. I mean, I feel like we've all kind of ran
to keep using nautical terms, ran ashore of that when it comes to like high school and whatnot,
(31:28):
because like you'll find out that like a bully who is like notoriously a bigot towards like
everybody turned out to be, you know, a closeted person of some kind. They didn't happen all the
time, but you definitely heard stories, especially as you got older. And he's like, Oh, really?
Ben used to push everybody around. He's got husband. Right. What's happening with him? And then
(31:52):
I always come back with that whenever I find out I was like, Well, at least he's found his piece.
Well, we've got a friend who was used to travel back and forth to Turkey and went to
an all male, an all male school with my brother. And he is gay. And he and his husband live in
(32:18):
Portland, Oregon. And when I say I've always known, I've always known, always knew. And I went to see
for I went to Portland to see my brother. And he took me to lunch. And we got to speak with one
another. He was just a lovely, lovely human being. Yeah, that's great. The worst part is watching
(32:43):
somebody tear themselves apart with with so much like negativity that you can just tell they're
not happy the moment you see him. There was a gentleman who went to school with a very effeminate
male. And that doesn't necessarily mean that you're gay or queer or anything, you know,
affect how you're going to affect. But he didn't ever have a girlfriend. You know, a lot of us
(33:06):
were thinking is like, Hey, you know, if you're gay, it's okay. And the venom that he would spew
whenever you even brought the idea up to him was so yeah, you could tell it was burning him
as much as it was everybody else around him. He would come to school like so negative like
first he'd come in with his head high and then like it would only take two comments for him to
(33:28):
just be like angry and and so and just so withdrawn immediately. It took a couple years after high
school. You got into college, I guess he got comfortable with himself and the next thing you
know, he goes, Yeah, I've always been gay. And we're like, Oh my god, we know. We're so happy for
you now. The anger stops. Isn't it so funny? The anger stops and the and the compassion
(33:56):
starts to come in. Yeah. And you just start to have compassion for people that you wouldn't
normally have had compassion for. Because he didn't he was he was angry towards everybody. The only
people he wasn't angry with was like the the snipe cheerleaders that he hung out with. And they would
just all pick each other apart and pick everybody else apart around them. And they would be like
(34:19):
hanging out in solidarity due to bitchiness. And we were just like, we wanted so much more from
that. And I'm glad that he finally got it. I I'd like to think that what happened is that he got
away from influences that made him feel like if he was because somebody obviously that he was
hanging out with was making him feel that him being his true self was not going to be good for him.
(34:42):
And it sounds like looks like that he got away from that. And whether it was maybe family or
maybe just somebody who is like in his life all the time, just because you know, we're small
school, we're going to be pretty much in the same classes as we grew up. And maybe he just
that was the way of his protecting himself. It was like watching somebody like try to clean
(35:04):
themselves off with acid. It was sad. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. I mean, back to the military aspect
of it, I would say that as long as you don't rub it in and try to make everybody use your pronouns
and wear rainbow outfits and sparkly shoes and talk about unicorns and fairy dust.
(35:32):
I mean, you're with a bunch of animals. Okay. I remember being in the military for like a minute.
That's all that it took was one minute. And then I was like, I'm out. Peace. Good luck. Yeah. Animals.
Yeah. I felt the animals. Boo camp was filled full of people who showed up from all different types
(35:58):
of areas around the country. And when they got together, all the germs that you've never had
from one area, you suddenly just inhale. And so everybody gets what's called the Ricky flu,
short for recruit Ricky flu. And it's horrible. It's it's crud. It sticks around for you around
and it takes saps like your oxygen away from you for half the time. That's kind of what the mentality
(36:25):
is. Once you get out of that, once you get done with boot camp and you're going out there,
everybody is not only just now bringing their germs, but they're also bringing their
ideology. They're bringing with whatever they grew up with because, yeah, sure, they got indoctrinated.
They're in the military now. They've learned how to how to march. They've learned how to, for some
(36:46):
instances, how to hold guns, but prejudices and ways of thinking they start getting more comfortable
like that. I can be more me now. That's when you do find out that, yeah, you shouldn't be telling
everything to everybody because somebody who you thought you were cool with, you know, during,
say, boot camp or maybe the very beginning of wherever you happen to go, your EOS, your school,
(37:10):
wherever you're going, you know, you start to realize is like, hey, this guy's actually kind of a
dick. I think that's why it was so cool that even though we all have like a bunch of different
people back there in the nuke birthing, there were as many as there were assholes, they were also,
you know, we're all here because we're smart enough to be in this. That kind of sometimes,
(37:35):
you know, held people together. Of course, cliques would form in that, but it was still all, you
know, we're back here, we're nukes, we're doing what we're supposed to do. If you're not doing
what you're supposed to do, that's a whole different thing. You can read about that in my book if you
want to, but there's a whole lot of depression and whatnot around that. But there was still a kind
(37:55):
of solidarity that, you know, don't mess with the nuke. The only person who can mess with this nuke
who's not doing great is me because I happen to be a nuke. Like if you're an airdale, if you're a
cook, if you're a marine, how about you go handle your own? We're handling our own back here.
That in itself was kind of nice. At least you knew who you were going to be, I'm going to be around.
(38:17):
You knew which assholes to avoid. There was no real kind of like guessing.
They were transparent about their asshole-ness. Yeah, yeah, because they're like, you know,
this is it. This is who we are. Also, when you're a nuke, your time is pretty much spent
being in the plant and then going to eat and going to sleep. Then you just kind of keep rotating.
(38:45):
So it's really easy to not get to know the other divisions of the ship. It's not like,
I was really lucky enough to get to know one airdale, a guy who is in the airplane maintenance
division. I think I got to know one sonar tech. Everybody else was just different shades of
(39:07):
nuclear train personnel. Right. Oh my God, that's it. Sounds like so much work.
Just being around. It definitely could have been if I had applied myself more often. It
probably would have been a heck of a lot more. Oh, geez. Well, I'm thinking, I mean,
from what you're telling me, as long as you didn't give a shit what other people bought and you just
(39:31):
did your thing and did your time in the military, and that's that. And I'm sure you get off base.
I'm sure you could go to a gay club or something like that. Just as long as you don't do it on the
base. Yeah. And then definitely weren't any on the base as far as I know. But then again,
(39:54):
I wasn't really digging in for that. But there are probably more than enough places for that around
in Virginia. I mean, they're all walks of life. They were transitioning or at least cross-dressing
depending on who they were and who they were asking money from hookers on the walk. Not a
(40:16):
short distance away from our house. There were a lot of what would have just been called like
gay encounter culture at that time. But I never sought it out because I mean, I was being paid
attention to simply because of the fact that I wasn't doing well. So to add that on top of that,
yeah, no, I would have that would have had an unnecessary complication. Those who were doing
(40:40):
well, you know, doing their job well, people didn't care who you are, what you did as long as you
just hear, I mean, you're right. You just apply yourself. Just do your part and hold your own
and don't talk out of turn. That's what a relationship is like too. Like for me now,
(41:01):
I realize that. Well, I mean, at times, I mean, I don't know for me, I've got to be me. There's
certain work that has to get done in order to make any relationship work. But I feel like I can be
quirky and myself enough that I know that I'm just going to be like, looked at like,
(41:24):
I don't understand the thing you're doing right now. Like me, I'm so online that I know so many
random online and real life trivia things. And Marley, she's like, I don't care. I want to
enjoy my shows and whatnot. And that alone causes divide sometimes because like, Hey, did you see
this video? She'd be like, no, I know what you're talking about. I'm like, Oh my God, it's been
online forever. I know what you're saying. It's almost like though, it's comfortable. I get it.
(41:52):
I have certain shows that I watch to put me to sleep. They're mundane, you know, those half hour
comedy series on TV, like Bob Burtz Abashola, Young Sheldon, Big Bang Theory. I mean, I watch that
stuff. And it's just easy. I don't watch Housewives because I can't stand to see women argue. I think
(42:20):
it's it's inappropriate. There's no need for it. It's unnecessary drama. There's no need for that.
If I wanted to listen to that kind of drama, I would actually pay more attention to some of the
grumblings that happen on and, you know, in where I work, you know, because and you think guys don't
bring drama, they do. They just try to laugh it off more. But it's there. Oh, man, is it there?
(42:45):
It's there. I try to ignore it. So it's hard to do sometimes, especially when my job, as I found
out, is to strategically eavesdrop because some things need to get told to my boss that don't
actually get to them. They stop shortly before and is my job to kind of pick them up and deliver
(43:06):
them over. Sometimes like, Hey, I heard so and so talking about this. Is this something that you need
to do? Which is it's small enough office. You don't think I'd have to do that. But it's important
thing to do. I could keep talking about myself forever. But I know that we only have so much time.
And since I feel like that these are going to go up in order, I would love to ask and inform
(43:31):
other people on how you're going to ask. Oh, well, thank you. You're welcome. Ask the ask.
He's actually so Monday he has a doctor's appointment. And it's with the urologist and
that it's to get down. He had an he had sepsis. So he was really infected. But he's been so good,
(43:52):
like eating a vegan diet. He's doing this for me. It's not entirely vegan because I made him.
It's not a vegan diet, obviously, because I made him bone broth, warm bone broth with carrots and
garlic and salt and pepper and just like all this onions and just it's good good for him. And
(44:16):
instead of coffee, he's been drinking that his blood sugar has been perfect, his blood pressure
are perfect. The pain has been zero. Okay, so I just wanted to get him to that doctor's appointment
so he could feel confident. And I really want to show him how to take better care of himself
(44:41):
so that he doesn't have to have me here because I know it's a lot for him and it's a lot for me
because I live in Florida. Oh, yeah. So yeah. Yeah, but he's although this year, it probably
doesn't feel like it. Right. No, I don't feel like I have a home. How's that? I know you're
you're you're definitely a leaf. I'm a little homeless at this point.
(45:05):
It's just a little home. But it's cool. I've had a lot of TikTok family
checking in on me, my cousins checking in on my and my dad, I want to say the TikTok family
checking on my dad and checking on me. And then my cousins and then I've got this little cat
(45:32):
right here. Yeah, under my little cat. And she looks she sleeps with me at night.
Who's cat is this? Stepmother's cat. Yeah, her name is Christine. My stepmother's name is Christine.
The cat's name is baby blue. Hey, now there's a name. Oh my God. And she follows me everywhere
(45:56):
into the bathroom into the bedroom. That's what I you know, that's what I call my cat, right?
Like his name is blue. But I call him I call him he has a few names, actually. He has baby blue.
He has bubbles. He has tiny bubbles, bubble is just blue fist. And here recently, much to my
(46:22):
wife's chagrin, because I call her close to these nicknames, but I don't call her these nicknames
back to back. I've been calling him sweetie baby. Because because he he needs all the love. And
when he had butts, he goes for kisses like he hits the lips. So I I'm a big fan of the kind of back
(46:46):
and forth nature that you can get with a cat, especially if you get one who resonates with
you because they are following you to the bathroom to, you know, to protect you in solidarity,
they're going to the bedroom because they know that's that's that's your dint. You know, the fact
that you even allow them in there is is a great honor to them. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah.
(47:06):
I you know, if you if you are willing to sleep around them, you're showing how comfortable
you are with them. And then they in turn will be in be comfortable with you. So like if a cat lays
around you and they have their back towards you, most of the time, they're like, it's cool,
you got my back. Like, I know nothing's going to happen. But if for some reason, like if a cat
(47:28):
sleeps with you and it's like always like facing you like head forward, it means it's like, we're
cool. We're cool. But like one wrong move, motherfucker, and it's on my cat sleeps with their
back to me. Well, there you go. You you have fostered the trust with the most honorable of four
legged beasts. That's really cool. Well, I might call us a fight with that statement. But you know,
(47:53):
I do, my friend. And that was a good closing closing with the kitty cat. I think so. I think so.
Well, Edith, we gotta do this again. My friend. Thank you so much. I'm glad we could do the
military bit. All right, peace out word to your mother. Absolutely. Have a good day, my dear.
(48:17):
You too. Namaste. Bye. Bye.
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