June 27, 2025 • 38 mins
The age-old question of whether to pursue university education or an apprenticeship remains a pivotal decision for young people and businesses alike. After attending an enlightening debate at Cambridge University on whether graduates can compete in today's job market, we found ourselves on opposite sides of the argument – Paul championing apprenticeships while Jade defended the value of university degrees.
Drawing from our direct experience employing apprentices at One Account, we've witnessed firsthand how young talent like Harry, James, and Zach have transformed into invaluable team members. The apprenticeship model offers unique advantages for small businesses: you can shape fresh minds to your specific practices, watch them embody your company culture, and harness their enthusiasm and energy. Yet this approach demands significant investment – in time, training, and patience through the inevitable learning curves.
For small businesses, the financial incentives to take on apprentices have been crucial. The government's decision to remove Level 7 apprenticeships represents a concerning shift that may prevent businesses like ours from supporting higher-level qualifications in the future. Without this support, opportunities for talented individuals to progress through the apprenticeship route could vanish.
Our personal journeys highlight different paths to success – Paul starting at 17 through an apprenticeship route and eventually founding his own practice, while Jade pursued university before joining the family business and now completing an MBA through an apprenticeship program. These contrasting experiences demonstrate there's no one-size-fits-all approach.
We also touch on the critical importance of working with regulated professionals, particularly in accountancy. The temptation to choose cheaper, unregulated services often leads to costly mistakes and missed opportunities – a painful lesson we've seen clients learn before returning to our fold.
Ready to explore whether an apprentice might be right for your business? Or perhaps you're weighing up university versus apprenticeship for your own career? This episode offers practical insights from both perspectives. Subscribe now, share with a fellow business owner, and join the conversation!
🎧 Listen now on Spotify & Apple Music and don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review – and send us your questions for future episodes!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Business with the Donos, where we talk
about business, family andeverything in between.
I'm your host, Jade Dono, andI'm here with my dad, Paul Dono.
That's me.
That's you.
Yeah, Who'd have thunk it?
And this week's topic is shouldyou hire an apprentice?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Well, that was a short podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Going in at 22 seconds simples um, no, really.
So this, this discussion's comeup because we went to a debate
yesterday hosted in thecambridge university, which is
really cool like it's justfilled with tradition, um,
including the debating hall.
(00:46):
The chairs are super uncomfybecause they're so old, but it's
a really cool place to visitand I would urge you to go to a
debate there if you can, becauseit's a good experience to have.
I've never been to anythinglike that before.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I told you you'd like it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
You did Well.
I never doubted that.
I would like it to be fair.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, Josh didn't want to go, did he?
He said he wouldn't like it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
No, Josh didn't want to go, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I don't want to go.
Why have I got to go?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
He didn't want to go, but but did he like it?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
He did he really enjoyed it as well.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It was something different.
The motion was that graduatescan't compete.
Now we had three speakers ofboth agreeing with the motion
and then three opposing themotion Some really great, great
speakers.
On the agreeing with the motion.
We had Grace Hardy, who's doingreally, really well in the
accounting industry.
She's making big waves andshe's so impressive, like she's
(01:50):
what?
24 or something.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, she's very young.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, she's very young and she's doing so much
already, so she is one to watch.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I did start my practice at 24.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Oh, well done you.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Just put it out there .
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay, well done you just put it out there.
I mean, I know it was 30 oddyears ago, but I still did.
Well done you didn't have theinternet then oh, that must have
been really hard it was therewas another lady called
Christina and she worked inscience and she was doing an
apprenticeship and getting herdegree through her
(02:24):
apprenticeship.
So she was talking a lot aboutthat, which was really
interesting.
And there was then anotherperson and I can't remember his
name, I think it might have beenChris- it was because the other
one was Ross and he'd done alot of clever things.
He'd been at universities.
I think he was a fellow.
I don't actually understandwhat you did.
He'd written a book that I can'tactually understand, one of the
(02:44):
things he'd written a book thatI can't repeat the name of
because it's not because it'srude, I just didn't understand
it was quantum something yeah, Idon't know wow, impressive guy
some sort of light reading, yeahyou'll take it on our cruise
yeah, maybe who knows, um, butyeah, he he also.
He discussed more about sort ofthe failings of universities,
(03:06):
which were really good points.
And then we had three on theother side.
We had Ross, who, um, was aprofessor.
He's made a brand newuniversity in Peterborough, um,
with new sort of innovativeideas, sort of picking up on
those failings that Chris wassaying.
Um.
We had Anna, who was a rower,who had an Olympic gold medal
(03:27):
that she passed around everybody, she let everybody have a look
at it and, bearing in mind theremust have been 200 odd people
there she passed it round, orlet everyone else pass it round
to have a look at it a bronzeand a gold
Speaker 2 (03:40):
bronze in Beijing and a gold in England and the
Beijing medals all had jade in.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
She said the gold medals had a very pale jade and
was very precious and I thoughtI should have held that one.
Really.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Why.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I'm a very pale jade.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Oh, just not precious .
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Probably quite precious as well.
Instead we got the bronze one,which was cheap as chips Jade,
apparently, yeah, which is notme.
So I got my picture with themedal, which was cool, and then
the other one was Lord, how doyou pronounce his name?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Kieran Billamore.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Billamore, lord Billamore, and he was excellent,
a very, very clever guy.
He founded Cobra Beer and Ithink he had more degrees than I
can count, I think and he wasan excellent speaker.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I think what was quite impressive is that he
actually stood up and said he'sbeen given a lot of honorary
doctorates, but he wanted a realone.
So he's now studying at thismoment.
Um, you know, and he's he's nota young chap and at this moment
he's studying for a doctorate,so he can have a real one rather
than an honorary one yeah, Ithink that's just phenomenal I
(04:59):
think so as well, because he,like he, doesn't need it no, but
he felt like he should earn ityeah, which?
well you know.
That just shows you the driveand determination of the guy
yeah, yeah, amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Um.
So yeah, because we went tothat debate and we heard those
two sides um, we thought we'dtalk about apprenticeships.
Now I me and dad had differentthoughts on the can graduates
compete or not, and I think theargument ended up being sort of
university versusapprenticeships, which I think
wasn't necessarily what theargument should have been,
(05:36):
because I think that universityhas its place and I think
apprenticeships have their placeand I think people can thrive
in both, but I think graduatescan absolutely compete with
people on apprenticeships aswell.
So, yeah, whereas Dad's got theopposite opinion, he went
through the other door, althoughmy side won.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
So Well, if you look at it as our group, yeah, Okay.
Okay, so within our group thatwe took, we took.
There was six of us that wentto the debate.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, three were graduates and three, including
myself, have come throughapprenticeship.
Yeah, two graduates wentthrough the nay.
Four people went through theyay and supported the motion.
So if we take it as a microvote, no, because mum's I think
(06:28):
we'll take it as the whole room.
No, no, do it as a micro growth, as a family group.
Yeah, yeah, one accounts, itwas four, two I don't think it
works like that well, it did inmy head, my head.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Your head is wrong.
Anyway, it made us really thinkabout the apprenticeship side
of things, because we're all forapprenticeships.
I think they're excellent, andwe've got Harry, who we've taken
on all the way through hisapprenticeship, and James.
We took on Zach right at theend of his apprenticeship and
(07:02):
now he's on anotherapprenticeship.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
But Grace, she started on apprenticeships.
She's doing really well inindustry at the end of his
apprenticeship and now he's onanother apprenticeship.
But Grace, she started onapprenticeship.
She's doing really well inindustry at the moment.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I mean, I'm doing an apprenticeship now for my MBA,
so I've done both sides of thething.
So I know Although I'd stillcount myself as a graduate in
terms of the debate once I'vedone the MBA, because I get a
master's.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yes, and that's where some of the confusion was yeah,
and that's where the argument,I think, was lost a little bit,
because the lady Christina shewas doing a degree to get to be
and therefore became a graduatewhich was kind of laboured on
(07:40):
correctly.
She was impressive, but youknow.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I thought her argument impressive.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Her argument was shot when she was going to be a
graduate at the end of herapprenticeship so that's where
the apprenticeship graduate mixargument changed.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Oh, it didn't quite work because you can do both,
which I actually think is agreat option.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
But our apprentices have done really well.
I mean, you look at James.
I mean he's started from CastleManor, which was obviously a
top school in Haverhill the bestschool in Haverhill, of course
Of course I've got no commentson that.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Don't send us hate mail any.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Sammy.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Ward people.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
It produced some very , very good, impressive people
who run businesses, particularlyin accountancy practice, in the
town.
So you know, it was great tobring James through.
He's really shining and gettingour clients in a good position
and reviewing them and givinggood business advice.
And Harry, who come from theother school in town which can't
(08:44):
be named because it wasn't asgood as cost man, obviously, um,
poor harry, but I have told himI know many times but he's
doing some great work.
He wants to do accounts.
He loves doing the accounts andhe's doing really really good
job in his accounts andsupporting um james in that side
(09:05):
.
So from an apprenticeship pointof view, as a business, they
are really really good um,really good workers um, and
we've taken them from school andthey're flying, absolutely
flying yeah yeah, so I thinkthat's great.
I mean, zach came to us fromanother firm of accountants and
is studying his next levelqualifications, his ACCA.
(09:28):
He will do very well movingforwards, but we didn't take him
straight from school.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
No.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So he'd already got his AAT.
I think he got it on the day hestarted with us.
Yeah, but again, we'resupporting him through an
apprenticeship program, which Ithink is really really good.
Obviously, you supportingthrough an apprenticeship
program, which I think is reallyreally good, obviously you're.
You're doing the apprenticeshipprogram as well.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Um and yeah yeah, and I think there's a bit of a
misconception on theapprenticeships that you have to
be a school leaver to do them.
You can be an apprentice at anytime.
If you want that additionallearning, you can apply um even
after you've been at university.
I mean, josh did josh um andmyself, but josh decided to have
(10:14):
a career change.
He used to do um data analysisfor cricket.
That's what he's trained in um.
He decided to have a bit of acareer change so he did the
apprenticeship for his ATT,which he now uses and has done
well.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
So he's had both the university and the
apprenticeship experience, and Ithink that's served him well
and and josh and and yourself,is that you would probably not
(10:51):
bother with the apprenticeshipside if there wasn't financial
incentives for your employers no, probably not you know, because
the apprenticeship side, thelearning.
I remember when james we, youknow james had to learn gcse,
maths or whatever the equivalentis now, and he had a level
maths and and shone on it.
So the questions they wereasking him in the apprenticeship
(11:13):
program were not adapted to him, you know and he was doing an
accounting um exam.
Why on earth would you want tolearn?
So you know, some of theapprenticeship side of it isn't
really fit for purpose andprobably needs a good review.
But the financial incentivesfor small firms like ourselves,
(11:36):
um, enable us to put peoplethrough an apprenticeship.
Yeah, um, and I think that, asa, as a small employer, that's
crucial.
I don't think this government,a small employer, that's crucial
.
I don't think this governmentunderstands small employers.
They talk about theapprenticeship levy.
They talk about, you know,supporting employers, but us
small employers, we need support.
We can't afford to put peoplethrough, unfortunately, this
(12:02):
level of fees for their tuition,let alone the time it takes our
team to teach them,particularly Adrian, who is a
brilliant sort of mentor.
They need a lot of time off toget through the exams etc.
That support I don't think isright and I think that the
(12:25):
government I know some of theprofessional bodies,
particularly our professionalbody, are really lobbying hard
for that.
So, yeah, I think thegovernment's got to wake up.
To be quite honest, I don't wantto be political on here, but
they've got to understand what asmaller micro business is yeah,
and they're also removing theLevel 7 apprenticeships which.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I don't think is the right thing to do, because it
means now I wouldn't have beenable to have done my Masters
because it would have cost toomuch.
And I actually think doing itthrough the apprenticeship has
been really rewarding, becauseall of my assignments have to
relate to one account, whichmeans even though I'm writing it
(13:09):
academically, it's all applyingto the theory.
I'm learning practically andthat's invaluable for anybody
doing it um in alongside theirbusiness um, and removing that
opportunity for people toupskill and and work their way
(13:31):
up in professions, that's Ithink that's a bit of a mistake.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And I've said uh, you know, my in the forums I belong
to, you know, within theaccountants, is that we probably
wouldn't take another Zach onyou know, which is a shame,
because he wants to do his ACCA.
We're sponsoring him for that,yeah, but we couldn't afford the
time that is required off, wecouldn't afford the tuition fees
(13:57):
.
We just wouldn't do it, youknow, and that's an opportunity
for that young person that isgoing to be missed moving
forward.
You know, it's's an opportunityfor that young person that is
going to be missed movingforward.
You know, it's our first Level7 person that we've taken
through and we will not be doingthat in the future under this
current regime.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Well, not without the apprenticeship scheme as well.
Well, absolutely yeah indeed.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
But you know, up to Level 4, we will certainly
reconsider.
Yeah, so I know that soundsnegative, isn't it?
But I just think the support'sgot to be there for small
business.
That's my, I mean.
I know we've got a rant sessionlater, but that's that's
probably.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
One of my big rants is that we need to support small
business, and small businesses,whatever they do, need to feel
they've got that support yeah,but we also need to support
young people what we do if theycan't go to university, if they
don't want the debt, then theapprenticeships are the other
option, and if businesses aren'twilling to take the apprentices
on, that is a problem, and soyeah it is, and so I can only
(15:03):
speak from experience, buttaking apprentices on has
certainly helped our businessyeah, yeah, absolutely.
Just because I went through theneighborhood does not mean I
was against apprenticeships,just putting it out there I
think they're great.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You know, we can all have opinion, even if it's wrong
no, I just think graduates cancompete that's all fine.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I think with the right support system they can't
compete but that could be saidthe other way around as well.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, it could.
And I think that the guy whosaid that universities aren't
making people fit for purposebecause their traditional way of
learning isn't going to changeI mean, I think Karen Bilamori,
I think he turned around andsaid that when he started his
doctorate he wasn't allowed touse AI because it's cheating.
(15:53):
Two years later into hisdoctorate, he said they're
encouraging me to use AI becausethat's what the workplace is
expecting.
So therefore, now it's notcheating, so that is an adaption
.
But I mean, two years ago AIexisted.
So if universities aren'tcatching up, then then, yes, the
graduates that come out are notfit for purpose but I think
that could be said the same insome workplaces that are taking
(16:16):
on apprentices.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
They won't be using AI.
Like, if you look at it from anaccountancy practice, only what
?
17%, I think something alongthose lines are even using
online technology.
So think of all thoseapprentices that are in
traditional firms.
They won't't be using AI.
Well, you know, and they mightnot be getting any.
They might not be in a placethat wants to push their
(16:37):
apprentices forward either or beable to give them the time, and
therefore apprentices andgraduates are on exactly the
same level.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Whatever Disagree to disagree.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
He knows, I'm right.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I still went through the the yeas.
I agreed the motion okay anyway.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
So apprentices do work well for small business.
They've definitely worked wellfor us and I think some of the
some of the reason is that youdo get people in that are really
keen and they're full of energyand they'll really work hard
and you can also mold them to beyour business person, so like a
(17:17):
one-off person in our way.
So it's it's easier to trainthem our habits than it is to
break bad habits, um, which is areally good thing.
They also grow with yourculture, so they fit your
(17:37):
culture, they understand it,they sort of live and breathe it
.
They've not known anythingbefore, unless they have come
from another workplace andthey're doing the apprenticeship
after being somewhere else.
But still they, they grow withyou, um, and they, you know, can
learn new things that theycouldn't bring in on the team
(17:58):
absolutely from their study.
Yeah, um, the challenges are andwe've touched on all of these,
but I thought I'll just listthem out for you is they do need
time.
They need to be trainedproperly if you're going to take
an apprentice on.
They need to be cared for,nurtured and pushed in the right
direction.
You should be the champion ofthem, and then you'll get the
(18:19):
best out of them.
Absolutely, um, you probablyneed a plan to be able to do
that as well.
So that's your job yeah, youneed a plan.
You need to know what they'relearning, when and and really
push them forward.
Let them thrive um andunderstand as well.
They're not.
They're not there, just as youknow.
(18:43):
Cheap labor, if you like oh,crikey, they are there because
they're learning and they'regoing to be one of probably one
of your key people by the timethey are done.
And also you've got to bereally forgiving.
Mistakes happen.
You need to let it slide, bepatient and teach Rather than
(19:06):
you know.
Expect them to know everything,because they won't.
So I thought we'd share a bitof our stories, dad, so that
people know where we're comingfrom.
So if you want to say sort ofhow you started through your
apprenticeship and then yeah, soI mean, I started my working
(19:29):
life at 17, as it were.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I mean, before that I was working as well.
You know, I went potato picking.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Oh, well done.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, so that was good fun during my summer
holidays.
I've filled paint pots up, I'vedone other stuff and what have
you.
So you know, always enjoyedworking Started.
I did work experience fromschool yep which was great,
messed up the filing system.
You'd be surprised by that,wouldn't you?
(19:58):
Apparently they couldn't findstuff after I've been there, but
they still liked me for somereason and then, you know,
offered me a training umcontract through the youth
training scheme, 50 pound a week.
Oh so there you go and um andyeah, so I worked from there.
(20:18):
That was an industry.
Then I went into a local firmonce I'd got my um, AAT, um
started, uh, with ACCA, Um, butthen, um, then the recession hit
, so I set up on my own and aspart of that, you can't continue
your ACCA exams because you'rein practice and you're studying
(20:42):
just something they won't allowthat's madness, isn't it?
I think it's a bit archaic.
I see why they try and do it,because some people might say
that they are ACCA backed, etc.
I get that, but it's a bitunfortunate SEMA actually allow
you to do it which is quiteinteresting.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
I don't know if people have done it that way.
I think continuous learningshould be encouraged, not
discouraged but there you go.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
That's the way it is.
So I started in practice with apartner.
Didn't like that, so went outon my own.
Then um carried on.
Paul dono and co was my mybusiness.
Um.
You did some tax returns for meat about age 10 um and did
keeping keeping a bit shreddingand you also did the um some
(21:31):
youtube videos.
When that came on board I didyeah, or some sort of editing as
well, which was great.
I then merged that business.
That went horribly wrong andthen started one account.
What about how long ago now, 11years ago?
Yeah, about 12 in December 12years in December and gone from
there.
In that time I've done a lot ofsat on a lot of boards, sat on
(21:55):
AAT Chamber of Commerce, chaireda local Chamber of Commerce,
various charity things, etcetera, local clubs and
societies that we've been thereand supported.
So, yeah, so quite a bit whenyou look back, yeah.
But yeah so that's where we'vecome from.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Exactly, and that's all through an apprenticeship,
no degrees, and you've achievedall of that, you know, without
having no one in my family wentto university.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
No, what about me Mum ?
Well, yeah, at the time youweren't here then and Mum hadn't
gone.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
She was a mature student okay, so my mine is a
bit different to yours, which issurprising, because you've
never sort of pushed theacademic route onto me and Katie
at all.
It's more been more our choice.
Katie didn't go to universitybut I did um.
(22:50):
But yeah, like dad, I workedearly on.
Well, I worked for dad for alittle like little bits doing
the shredding a little bitbookkeeping, a little bit of
video editing.
Um I um worked in the pub at 14.
Um I then for um at school.
There was going to be like abig exhibition, no expedition,
(23:14):
that you had to save up themoney, you had to raise the
money for yourself.
So I did lots of things then Iput on events, I worked at the
pub.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I worked at the local children's play area.
You did a lot of busking aswell, didn't you?
Speaker 1 (23:27):
I did a lot of busking, I did a lot to try and
raise, raise that money and itwasn't.
You couldn't earn a lot at 16.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
So it was it was.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
It was quite a quite a slog, but I did.
I think I was short by a littlebit, but I did.
I I raised more than anybodyelse in my in my year, so I, so
I thought that was a win.
So I did that.
I went to university.
I was a student.
Well, no, I went to collegefirst and at college then I was
(24:00):
working at the children's playarea, did like kids parties and
stuff, and that was really fun,um, and I did my singing.
So I was running my own littlebusiness as well, doing my
singing, um, singing around thepubs and things.
And then I went to university.
Um, I didn't do a part-time jobat university while I was there
(24:21):
, but in the summers then Iwould put on little workshops
for kids and build up my moneyto be able to then be fine at
uni.
And then I came back and didn'treally know what to do with
myself.
So I did lots of different jobswith my degree and I think I
think universities fail onsetting expectations when you
(24:44):
leave.
I think you leave and you thinkyou'll work straight away and
especially, you work straightaway in the west end yeah, but
you won't, um, you have to doeither an apprenticeship or work
for free or get that experience, and I would encourage anybody
who is at university at themoment to get the experience
while you're there, because thatwill save you a whole world of
(25:06):
issues when you finish.
Um, just go meet someimpressive people, go make
connections, go get a bit ofwork experience over the summer.
Just do it while you're atuniversity.
Um, anyway, I then decided tochange path and I joined dad.
Oh, at university as well, I putmyself into a leadership role.
(25:30):
I joined the musical theatresociety.
I decided I didn't want to dothe performing, so I became the
first female director in themusical theatre society.
I jumped in with both feet anddirected 70 freshers and I I put
the emphasis on freshersbecause they're not easy to
manage um 70 freshers in ashowcase.
(25:53):
And then I directed a musicalafter that, all whilst doing my
dissertation.
Um, that is something I thinkuniversity gave me the
opportunity to be able to do.
You wouldn't be able to get todo that in the real world at 21.
Not in an accountancy practiceno experience and not in an
accountancy practice.
No, but that gave me the skills.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
You just have to let it go.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
That was awful.
Anyway, I then left with mydegree, not knowing what to do.
I ended up, after, I think,about five jobs working for Dad
and I think, yeah, my degree.
Although it's in a totallydifferent realm to accountancy,
(26:39):
I think it does work alongsidewhat we do quite nicely despite
defying gravity oh, my goodness,these are awful.
And um, and now I'm studying formy master's again.
It's to you know, get thatexperience and that sort of
(27:01):
learning under my belt so that Ican help our clients with the
credibility of doing that course.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Well done, thank you it's all about you, innit well,
that was my story we were doingmy story, you did your story, I
had to do my story yeahexcellent, anyway.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
do you have anything else to say?
You did my story, you did yourstory.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I had to do my story.
Excellent.
Anyway, do you have anythingelse to say on apprentices?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
No, not at all, just that they're much better to
employ than graduates.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Not necessarily.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Please write us your comments on what you think to
the motion of graduates can'tcompete.
I'll be really interested toknow.
Obviously, you know that me anddad are different sides of the
fence, but I would love to hearyour comments to know what you
think on the matter.
Um, so now we are into ourunfiltered minute, so I'll start
with with mine, because youknow we've been talking about me
(28:05):
for ages, so let's just carryon um.
So this week we had a practiceassurance review.
So we're regulated accountants,so we have to, every three to
five years, have a practiceassurance review, where they
literally tear your businessapart and make sure you're doing
(28:26):
every single little thingproperly.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It's like an Ofsted inspection.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, it's sort of like Ofsted for accountants.
Yeah, it is like that and it'svery nerve wracking.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I think I actually did go in, didn't I?
When we were having our finalsum up and I said to the guy I
feel like a naughty school boy.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, you did.
Said to the guy I feel like anaughty school boy.
Yeah, you did come into thehead teacher but I mean it's
it's hard going but it is goodand it's really good to know
that if you're you're with aregulated accountant, that
they're getting everythingchecked.
I think from our client's pointof view it is a great thing
that we have it done.
(29:01):
But making sure the man hadeverything he needed for this
review in one place was quite alot of work.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, it was for you.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And I'm quite happy it's over.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So am I, because maybe my wine stocks won't be.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Maybe not.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Deplenished as quickly, but you did most of the
work.
Yeah, in fact, I did find theICO certificate, which ended up
being wrong.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, the one thing.
And I asked you about the DBSchecks and you were like, yeah,
me and mum have them.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And that was it.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
And actually you did have a DBS check.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I did, but not for one account.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah even so.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I've got one now.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, good, did you pass.
Yes, oh, that's right.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Just asking.
That'd be awkward on thepodcast, wouldn't?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
it Wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
So yeah, that's my little story of the week that we
did get through it and I thinkwe pretty much passed with
flying colours.
It was only that ICOcertificate that if you are a
business, everyone has to havean ICO registration.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It is worth just doing that holds data.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, it's worth doing their little online quiz
to make sure you're in the righttier, because they have
different tiers and they don'tevaluate it um as as they go,
they'll just take the directdebit, so just make sure that
you've not gone into tier twoand we'd gone into tier two.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
But we didn't know.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
We've gone into tier two no, because we didn't know
there were different tiers.
Yeah, so just check that bit ofadvice.
Just check your tiering isright on your ICO thing.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And the tiering should follow.
What a micro and small companyis.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
But like most government things, it doesn't
follow the new legislation whenit changes.
So the legislation's nowchanged on turnover, so we would
be tier one, probably now.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Well, that's annoying , isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
But we're not.
We're tier two because theyhaven't changed the criteria to
match the current rules.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Well, very frustrating.
But just a little bit of adviceCheck your tier.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, when I say current rules, I mean compared
to Companies House.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, okay, all right .
So what's your unfilteredminute?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Oh, do you know what?
So we've gone through.
This quality assurance visitprotects our clients.
They know that all our teamdoes CPD.
In fact, kerry had a CPD reviewby the AAT as an individual one
.
But we make sure and she passed,obviously with flying colours,
but we make sure everyone's upto date.
(31:47):
We make sure all our insurancesare up to date, we make sure
that our ICO certificate's right.
But we just our AML procedures.
We make sure everything isright, don't we?
That costs us to do that.
So not just in software but intime.
We've got people that work withus.
(32:08):
That that's all they do.
So we pay a salary, you know,for someone to do all this.
Yeah, so you know it's notcheap for us as a business to do
that from a cost point of view,let alone what's right for the
client.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
So what happened when we sat down?
We were like, phew, that's over, really good, good meeting with
the guy that reviewed us.
Lo and behold, one of our smallclients decides to go to Fred
in the Shed.
If your name's Fred on here,sorry about that.
Or Fred they're much cheaper.
(32:45):
So we looked at the website.
We thought ok, how can someonebe that much cheaper?
Looked at the website there'sno regulation.
The website's about two pageslong yep of course they're
cheaper.
They're not doing what we do,they're not keeping up to date
like we do, so the end bill ischeaper.
(33:06):
But how many cheaper firms doyou do?
We see that cost a lot of money, particularly in terms of
clients for tax, particularly insupporting the business.
I mean, what about that?
We saw a client you know didn'twant to go over the VAT
threshold.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
You know, because their accountant said there's a
lot of work to do, but it's allright.
The accountant was cheap, yeah,so I just kind of.
That's just what gets my bloodboiling.
We've just been through allthat and this client goes to a
cheaper firm Unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
It's not just cheaper , it's unregulated so they?
Yeah, they're cheaper becausethey don't have to do all of the
additional work that aregulated firm do.
But the benefit if you'relistening to this and thinking,
oh well, I could save a bit ofmoney going to an unregulated
one.
The problem is, if they're notup to date, you'll be losing out
(34:04):
on the tax and you'll also ifthere is a problem, if you get
an investigation.
If there's a problem, you'vegot nothing to fall back on.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
No.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
You can't do anything about it.
You are putting you and yourbusiness at risk by doing that.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
And your livelihoods.
You wouldn't go to a doctor andnot expect them to be a doctor,
would you?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
No, no, you wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So I just kind of it's just, I think it's an area
that's really annoying.
Yeah, don't get me wrong.
Everyone makes mistakes, youknow.
I'm sure we've made mistakes,but we have processes in place
to deal with those.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, and we have processes in place to deal with
those.
Yeah and uh, you know, and wehave insurance.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
At the end of the day , to cope with that exactly um
but yeah, so that that was myrant of the week, having gone
through that visit and literallysitting back on the chair and
this client saying they, they'regoing somewhere cheaper, that's
unregulated, yeah, unbelievableanyway that was a rant that was
a rant oh, I feel it gets mygoat it does.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah, so our question for the week isn't one that
somebody sent in, because nobodysent me a question, which was
really sad so please send me aquestion for next week, because
that'll really just make my day,um, but this is a question we
just had in general, which wascan we return to you as a client
?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, I know this was after about I don't know what
three or four years.
So this particular businessfamily business, lovely business
decided that a regional firmwas where they needed to be,
because they needed a regionalfirm was where they needed to be
because they needed a regional.
You know they're much betterthan us little tiny firm that is
(35:48):
as well qualified as that firmyeah.
And provides much better.
You know, they were very sortof big fish in a small pond with
us and they became very smallfish in a big pond and
apparently they weren'treturning their calls.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Oh, really, yeah, what a surprise, what a surprise
, but we see this, don't we?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, we do you know the grass is always greener on
the other side, because my matedown at the pub said these
people are brilliant, so theyleft us about three or four
years ago.
Yeah, and they're about to comeback, yep, which you know, does
we're pleased about.
We are, um, you know, we love,we love the family, um, we, you
(36:28):
know, and we see their businessgrowing and we just think that's
great.
Um, but the grass isn't alwaysgreener, unfortunately.
As a business, we have tosometimes go through that pain
for people to realize that yeah,we've accepted them back.
We don't accept everyone back,because some of them are proper
pitter client yeah can't swearon it no, you can't but we have
(36:53):
accepted them back and you knowwe look forward to work from
them.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
So that was a great, a great question, um, but it'll
be on our terms yeah, exactly itwill be, and I think it's quite
nice for us to know that thedifferences we think we have as
a small family business yeah areaccurate.
We.
They're coming back becausethey want the phone calls
answered, they want to feel likethey're loved, they want the
(37:18):
help, and which is what we saywe deliver.
And it's nice to know that wedo deliver and that when we say
our competitors aren'tdelivering, on that we're right
as well.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I think the butchers do that, don't they?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
What.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Deliver.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Oh my goodness, the dad jokes are full on today.
They're so full on.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
It's even made me laugh.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
At least it made one of us laugh.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Absolutely.
I think that what is alsoreally good there is that you
know it was embarrassing forthem to pick that phone up and
say can we come back?
Yeah, and I know, because Iknow this person, I know that
that's probably taken them sixto 12 months to ask that
question.
Yeah, and I know, because Iknow this person, I know that
that's probably taken them sixto 12 months to ask that
question.
Yeah, so and we and, but theydid ask it and it does take.
(38:11):
You know, it takes someone whois probably a business owner and
understands what's what.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, and sometimes you have to just.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
We just sat back and waited.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, anyway, I think that's it for this week so
that's it for this week withBusiness of the Donos.
If you liked this episode,please subscribe, share it with
a business owner that you knowand leave us a review.
It will really help us to boostour accessibility with our
podcast.
But for now, we will see younext week.
(38:41):
Yes, bye.
Welcome to Business with the Donos, where we talk
about business, family andeverything in between.
I'm your host, Jade Dono, andI'm here with my dad, Paul Dono.
That's me.
That's you.
Yeah, Who'd have thunk it?
And this week's topic is shouldyou hire an apprentice?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Well, that was a short podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Going in at 22 seconds simples um, no, really.
So this, this discussion's comeup because we went to a debate
yesterday hosted in thecambridge university, which is
really cool like it's justfilled with tradition, um,
including the debating hall.
(00:46):
The chairs are super uncomfybecause they're so old, but it's
a really cool place to visitand I would urge you to go to a
debate there if you can, becauseit's a good experience to have.
I've never been to anythinglike that before.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I told you you'd like it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
You did Well.
I never doubted that.
I would like it to be fair.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Well, Josh didn't want to go, did he?
He said he wouldn't like it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
No, Josh didn't want to go, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I don't want to go.
Why have I got to go?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
He didn't want to go, but but did he like it?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
He did he really enjoyed it as well.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It was something different.
The motion was that graduatescan't compete.
Now we had three speakers ofboth agreeing with the motion
and then three opposing themotion Some really great, great
speakers.
On the agreeing with the motion.
We had Grace Hardy, who's doingreally, really well in the
accounting industry.
She's making big waves andshe's so impressive, like she's
(01:50):
what?
24 or something.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, she's very young.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, she's very young and she's doing so much
already, so she is one to watch.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I did start my practice at 24.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Oh, well done you.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Just put it out there .
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay, well done you just put it out there.
I mean, I know it was 30 oddyears ago, but I still did.
Well done you didn't have theinternet then oh, that must have
been really hard it was therewas another lady called
Christina and she worked inscience and she was doing an
apprenticeship and getting herdegree through her
(02:24):
apprenticeship.
So she was talking a lot aboutthat, which was really
interesting.
And there was then anotherperson and I can't remember his
name, I think it might have beenChris- it was because the other
one was Ross and he'd done alot of clever things.
He'd been at universities.
I think he was a fellow.
I don't actually understandwhat you did.
He'd written a book that I can'tactually understand, one of the
(02:44):
things he'd written a book thatI can't repeat the name of
because it's not because it'srude, I just didn't understand
it was quantum something yeah, Idon't know wow, impressive guy
some sort of light reading, yeahyou'll take it on our cruise
yeah, maybe who knows, um, butyeah, he he also.
He discussed more about sort ofthe failings of universities,
(03:06):
which were really good points.
And then we had three on theother side.
We had Ross, who, um, was aprofessor.
He's made a brand newuniversity in Peterborough, um,
with new sort of innovativeideas, sort of picking up on
those failings that Chris wassaying.
Um.
We had Anna, who was a rower,who had an Olympic gold medal
(03:27):
that she passed around everybody, she let everybody have a look
at it and, bearing in mind theremust have been 200 odd people
there she passed it round, orlet everyone else pass it round
to have a look at it a bronzeand a gold
Speaker 2 (03:40):
bronze in Beijing and a gold in England and the
Beijing medals all had jade in.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
She said the gold medals had a very pale jade and
was very precious and I thoughtI should have held that one.
Really.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Why.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I'm a very pale jade.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Oh, just not precious .
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Probably quite precious as well.
Instead we got the bronze one,which was cheap as chips Jade,
apparently, yeah, which is notme.
So I got my picture with themedal, which was cool, and then
the other one was Lord, how doyou pronounce his name?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Kieran Billamore.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Billamore, lord Billamore, and he was excellent,
a very, very clever guy.
He founded Cobra Beer and Ithink he had more degrees than I
can count, I think and he wasan excellent speaker.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I think what was quite impressive is that he
actually stood up and said he'sbeen given a lot of honorary
doctorates, but he wanted a realone.
So he's now studying at thismoment.
Um, you know, and he's he's nota young chap and at this moment
he's studying for a doctorate,so he can have a real one rather
than an honorary one yeah, Ithink that's just phenomenal I
(04:59):
think so as well, because he,like he, doesn't need it no, but
he felt like he should earn ityeah, which?
well you know.
That just shows you the driveand determination of the guy
yeah, yeah, amazing.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Um.
So yeah, because we went tothat debate and we heard those
two sides um, we thought we'dtalk about apprenticeships.
Now I me and dad had differentthoughts on the can graduates
compete or not, and I think theargument ended up being sort of
university versusapprenticeships, which I think
wasn't necessarily what theargument should have been,
(05:36):
because I think that universityhas its place and I think
apprenticeships have their placeand I think people can thrive
in both, but I think graduatescan absolutely compete with
people on apprenticeships aswell.
So, yeah, whereas Dad's got theopposite opinion, he went
through the other door, althoughmy side won.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
So Well, if you look at it as our group, yeah, Okay.
Okay, so within our group thatwe took, we took.
There was six of us that wentto the debate.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, three were graduates and three, including
myself, have come throughapprenticeship.
Yeah, two graduates wentthrough the nay.
Four people went through theyay and supported the motion.
So if we take it as a microvote, no, because mum's I think
(06:28):
we'll take it as the whole room.
No, no, do it as a micro growth, as a family group.
Yeah, yeah, one accounts, itwas four, two I don't think it
works like that well, it did inmy head, my head.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Your head is wrong.
Anyway, it made us really thinkabout the apprenticeship side
of things, because we're all forapprenticeships.
I think they're excellent, andwe've got Harry, who we've taken
on all the way through hisapprenticeship, and James.
We took on Zach right at theend of his apprenticeship and
(07:02):
now he's on anotherapprenticeship.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
But Grace, she started on apprenticeships.
She's doing really well inindustry at the end of his
apprenticeship and now he's onanother apprenticeship.
But Grace, she started onapprenticeship.
She's doing really well inindustry at the moment.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I mean, I'm doing an apprenticeship now for my MBA,
so I've done both sides of thething.
So I know Although I'd stillcount myself as a graduate in
terms of the debate once I'vedone the MBA, because I get a
master's.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yes, and that's where some of the confusion was yeah,
and that's where the argument,I think, was lost a little bit,
because the lady Christina shewas doing a degree to get to be
and therefore became a graduatewhich was kind of laboured on
(07:40):
correctly.
She was impressive, but youknow.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I thought her argument impressive.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Her argument was shot when she was going to be a
graduate at the end of herapprenticeship so that's where
the apprenticeship graduate mixargument changed.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Oh, it didn't quite work because you can do both,
which I actually think is agreat option.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
But our apprentices have done really well.
I mean, you look at James.
I mean he's started from CastleManor, which was obviously a
top school in Haverhill the bestschool in Haverhill, of course
Of course I've got no commentson that.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Don't send us hate mail any.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Sammy.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Ward people.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
It produced some very , very good, impressive people
who run businesses, particularlyin accountancy practice, in the
town.
So you know, it was great tobring James through.
He's really shining and gettingour clients in a good position
and reviewing them and givinggood business advice.
And Harry, who come from theother school in town which can't
(08:44):
be named because it wasn't asgood as cost man, obviously, um,
poor harry, but I have told himI know many times but he's
doing some great work.
He wants to do accounts.
He loves doing the accounts andhe's doing really really good
job in his accounts andsupporting um james in that side
(09:05):
.
So from an apprenticeship pointof view, as a business, they
are really really good um,really good workers um, and
we've taken them from school andthey're flying, absolutely
flying yeah yeah, so I thinkthat's great.
I mean, zach came to us fromanother firm of accountants and
is studying his next levelqualifications, his ACCA.
(09:28):
He will do very well movingforwards, but we didn't take him
straight from school.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
No.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So he'd already got his AAT.
I think he got it on the day hestarted with us.
Yeah, but again, we'resupporting him through an
apprenticeship program, which Ithink is really really good.
Obviously, you supportingthrough an apprenticeship
program, which I think is reallyreally good, obviously you're.
You're doing the apprenticeshipprogram as well.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Um and yeah yeah, and I think there's a bit of a
misconception on theapprenticeships that you have to
be a school leaver to do them.
You can be an apprentice at anytime.
If you want that additionallearning, you can apply um even
after you've been at university.
I mean, josh did josh um andmyself, but josh decided to have
(10:14):
a career change.
He used to do um data analysisfor cricket.
That's what he's trained in um.
He decided to have a bit of acareer change so he did the
apprenticeship for his ATT,which he now uses and has done
well.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
So he's had both the university and the
apprenticeship experience, and Ithink that's served him well
and and josh and and yourself,is that you would probably not
(10:51):
bother with the apprenticeshipside if there wasn't financial
incentives for your employers no, probably not you know, because
the apprenticeship side, thelearning.
I remember when james we, youknow james had to learn gcse,
maths or whatever the equivalentis now, and he had a level
maths and and shone on it.
So the questions they wereasking him in the apprenticeship
(11:13):
program were not adapted to him, you know and he was doing an
accounting um exam.
Why on earth would you want tolearn?
So you know, some of theapprenticeship side of it isn't
really fit for purpose andprobably needs a good review.
But the financial incentivesfor small firms like ourselves,
(11:36):
um, enable us to put peoplethrough an apprenticeship.
Yeah, um, and I think that, asa, as a small employer, that's
crucial.
I don't think this government,a small employer, that's crucial
.
I don't think this governmentunderstands small employers.
They talk about theapprenticeship levy.
They talk about, you know,supporting employers, but us
small employers, we need support.
We can't afford to put peoplethrough, unfortunately, this
(12:02):
level of fees for their tuition,let alone the time it takes our
team to teach them,particularly Adrian, who is a
brilliant sort of mentor.
They need a lot of time off toget through the exams etc.
That support I don't think isright and I think that the
(12:25):
government I know some of theprofessional bodies,
particularly our professionalbody, are really lobbying hard
for that.
So, yeah, I think thegovernment's got to wake up.
To be quite honest, I don't wantto be political on here, but
they've got to understand what asmaller micro business is yeah,
and they're also removing theLevel 7 apprenticeships which.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I don't think is the right thing to do, because it
means now I wouldn't have beenable to have done my Masters
because it would have cost toomuch.
And I actually think doing itthrough the apprenticeship has
been really rewarding, becauseall of my assignments have to
relate to one account, whichmeans even though I'm writing it
(13:09):
academically, it's all applyingto the theory.
I'm learning practically andthat's invaluable for anybody
doing it um in alongside theirbusiness um, and removing that
opportunity for people toupskill and and work their way
(13:31):
up in professions, that's Ithink that's a bit of a mistake.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
And I've said uh, you know, my in the forums I belong
to, you know, within theaccountants, is that we probably
wouldn't take another Zach onyou know, which is a shame,
because he wants to do his ACCA.
We're sponsoring him for that,yeah, but we couldn't afford the
time that is required off, wecouldn't afford the tuition fees
(13:57):
.
We just wouldn't do it, youknow, and that's an opportunity
for that young person that isgoing to be missed moving
forward.
You know, it's's an opportunityfor that young person that is
going to be missed movingforward.
You know, it's our first Level7 person that we've taken
through and we will not be doingthat in the future under this
current regime.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Well, not without the apprenticeship scheme as well.
Well, absolutely yeah indeed.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
But you know, up to Level 4, we will certainly
reconsider.
Yeah, so I know that soundsnegative, isn't it?
But I just think the support'sgot to be there for small
business.
That's my, I mean.
I know we've got a rant sessionlater, but that's that's
probably.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
One of my big rants is that we need to support small
business, and small businesses,whatever they do, need to feel
they've got that support yeah,but we also need to support
young people what we do if theycan't go to university, if they
don't want the debt, then theapprenticeships are the other
option, and if businesses aren'twilling to take the apprentices
on, that is a problem, and soyeah it is, and so I can only
(15:03):
speak from experience, buttaking apprentices on has
certainly helped our businessyeah, yeah, absolutely.
Just because I went through theneighborhood does not mean I
was against apprenticeships,just putting it out there I
think they're great.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You know, we can all have opinion, even if it's wrong
no, I just think graduates cancompete that's all fine.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I think with the right support system they can't
compete but that could be saidthe other way around as well.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, it could.
And I think that the guy whosaid that universities aren't
making people fit for purposebecause their traditional way of
learning isn't going to changeI mean, I think Karen Bilamori,
I think he turned around andsaid that when he started his
doctorate he wasn't allowed touse AI because it's cheating.
(15:53):
Two years later into hisdoctorate, he said they're
encouraging me to use AI becausethat's what the workplace is
expecting.
So therefore, now it's notcheating, so that is an adaption
.
But I mean, two years ago AIexisted.
So if universities aren'tcatching up, then then, yes, the
graduates that come out are notfit for purpose but I think
that could be said the same insome workplaces that are taking
(16:16):
on apprentices.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
They won't be using AI.
Like, if you look at it from anaccountancy practice, only what
?
17%, I think something alongthose lines are even using
online technology.
So think of all thoseapprentices that are in
traditional firms.
They won't't be using AI.
Well, you know, and they mightnot be getting any.
They might not be in a placethat wants to push their
(16:37):
apprentices forward either or beable to give them the time, and
therefore apprentices andgraduates are on exactly the
same level.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Whatever Disagree to disagree.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
He knows, I'm right.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I still went through the the yeas.
I agreed the motion okay anyway.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
So apprentices do work well for small business.
They've definitely worked wellfor us and I think some of the
some of the reason is that youdo get people in that are really
keen and they're full of energyand they'll really work hard
and you can also mold them to beyour business person, so like a
(17:17):
one-off person in our way.
So it's it's easier to trainthem our habits than it is to
break bad habits, um, which is areally good thing.
They also grow with yourculture, so they fit your
(17:37):
culture, they understand it,they sort of live and breathe it
.
They've not known anythingbefore, unless they have come
from another workplace andthey're doing the apprenticeship
after being somewhere else.
But still they, they grow withyou, um, and they, you know, can
learn new things that theycouldn't bring in on the team
(17:58):
absolutely from their study.
Yeah, um, the challenges are andwe've touched on all of these,
but I thought I'll just listthem out for you is they do need
time.
They need to be trainedproperly if you're going to take
an apprentice on.
They need to be cared for,nurtured and pushed in the right
direction.
You should be the champion ofthem, and then you'll get the
(18:19):
best out of them.
Absolutely, um, you probablyneed a plan to be able to do
that as well.
So that's your job yeah, youneed a plan.
You need to know what they'relearning, when and and really
push them forward.
Let them thrive um andunderstand as well.
They're not.
They're not there, just as youknow.
(18:43):
Cheap labor, if you like oh,crikey, they are there because
they're learning and they'regoing to be one of probably one
of your key people by the timethey are done.
And also you've got to bereally forgiving.
Mistakes happen.
You need to let it slide, bepatient and teach Rather than
(19:06):
you know.
Expect them to know everything,because they won't.
So I thought we'd share a bitof our stories, dad, so that
people know where we're comingfrom.
So if you want to say sort ofhow you started through your
apprenticeship and then yeah, soI mean, I started my working
(19:29):
life at 17, as it were.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I mean, before that I was working as well.
You know, I went potato picking.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Oh, well done.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah, so that was good fun during my summer
holidays.
I've filled paint pots up, I'vedone other stuff and what have
you.
So you know, always enjoyedworking Started.
I did work experience fromschool yep which was great,
messed up the filing system.
You'd be surprised by that,wouldn't you?
(19:58):
Apparently they couldn't findstuff after I've been there, but
they still liked me for somereason and then, you know,
offered me a training umcontract through the youth
training scheme, 50 pound a week.
Oh so there you go and um andyeah, so I worked from there.
(20:18):
That was an industry.
Then I went into a local firmonce I'd got my um, AAT, um
started, uh, with ACCA, Um, butthen, um, then the recession hit
, so I set up on my own and aspart of that, you can't continue
your ACCA exams because you'rein practice and you're studying
(20:42):
just something they won't allowthat's madness, isn't it?
I think it's a bit archaic.
I see why they try and do it,because some people might say
that they are ACCA backed, etc.
I get that, but it's a bitunfortunate SEMA actually allow
you to do it which is quiteinteresting.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
I don't know if people have done it that way.
I think continuous learningshould be encouraged, not
discouraged but there you go.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
That's the way it is.
So I started in practice with apartner.
Didn't like that, so went outon my own.
Then um carried on.
Paul dono and co was my mybusiness.
Um.
You did some tax returns for meat about age 10 um and did
keeping keeping a bit shreddingand you also did the um some
(21:31):
youtube videos.
When that came on board I didyeah, or some sort of editing as
well, which was great.
I then merged that business.
That went horribly wrong andthen started one account.
What about how long ago now, 11years ago?
Yeah, about 12 in December 12years in December and gone from
there.
In that time I've done a lot ofsat on a lot of boards, sat on
(21:55):
AAT Chamber of Commerce, chaireda local Chamber of Commerce,
various charity things, etcetera, local clubs and
societies that we've been thereand supported.
So, yeah, so quite a bit whenyou look back, yeah.
But yeah so that's where we'vecome from.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Exactly, and that's all through an apprenticeship,
no degrees, and you've achievedall of that, you know, without
having no one in my family wentto university.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
No, what about me Mum ?
Well, yeah, at the time youweren't here then and Mum hadn't
gone.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
She was a mature student okay, so my mine is a
bit different to yours, which issurprising, because you've
never sort of pushed theacademic route onto me and Katie
at all.
It's more been more our choice.
Katie didn't go to universitybut I did um.
(22:50):
But yeah, like dad, I workedearly on.
Well, I worked for dad for alittle like little bits doing
the shredding a little bitbookkeeping, a little bit of
video editing.
Um I um worked in the pub at 14.
Um I then for um at school.
There was going to be like abig exhibition, no expedition,
(23:14):
that you had to save up themoney, you had to raise the
money for yourself.
So I did lots of things then Iput on events, I worked at the
pub.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
I worked at the local children's play area.
You did a lot of busking aswell, didn't you?
Speaker 1 (23:27):
I did a lot of busking, I did a lot to try and
raise, raise that money and itwasn't.
You couldn't earn a lot at 16.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
So it was it was.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
It was quite a quite a slog, but I did.
I think I was short by a littlebit, but I did.
I I raised more than anybodyelse in my in my year, so I, so
I thought that was a win.
So I did that.
I went to university.
I was a student.
Well, no, I went to collegefirst and at college then I was
(24:00):
working at the children's playarea, did like kids parties and
stuff, and that was really fun,um, and I did my singing.
So I was running my own littlebusiness as well, doing my
singing, um, singing around thepubs and things.
And then I went to university.
Um, I didn't do a part-time jobat university while I was there
(24:21):
, but in the summers then Iwould put on little workshops
for kids and build up my moneyto be able to then be fine at
uni.
And then I came back and didn'treally know what to do with
myself.
So I did lots of different jobswith my degree and I think I
think universities fail onsetting expectations when you
(24:44):
leave.
I think you leave and you thinkyou'll work straight away and
especially, you work straightaway in the west end yeah, but
you won't, um, you have to doeither an apprenticeship or work
for free or get that experience, and I would encourage anybody
who is at university at themoment to get the experience
while you're there, because thatwill save you a whole world of
(25:06):
issues when you finish.
Um, just go meet someimpressive people, go make
connections, go get a bit ofwork experience over the summer.
Just do it while you're atuniversity.
Um, anyway, I then decided tochange path and I joined dad.
Oh, at university as well, I putmyself into a leadership role.
(25:30):
I joined the musical theatresociety.
I decided I didn't want to dothe performing, so I became the
first female director in themusical theatre society.
I jumped in with both feet anddirected 70 freshers and I I put
the emphasis on freshersbecause they're not easy to
manage um 70 freshers in ashowcase.
(25:53):
And then I directed a musicalafter that, all whilst doing my
dissertation.
Um, that is something I thinkuniversity gave me the
opportunity to be able to do.
You wouldn't be able to get todo that in the real world at 21.
Not in an accountancy practiceno experience and not in an
accountancy practice.
No, but that gave me the skills.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
You just have to let it go.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
That was awful.
Anyway, I then left with mydegree, not knowing what to do.
I ended up, after, I think,about five jobs working for Dad
and I think, yeah, my degree.
Although it's in a totallydifferent realm to accountancy,
(26:39):
I think it does work alongsidewhat we do quite nicely despite
defying gravity oh, my goodness,these are awful.
And um, and now I'm studying formy master's again.
It's to you know, get thatexperience and that sort of
(27:01):
learning under my belt so that Ican help our clients with the
credibility of doing that course.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Well done, thank you it's all about you, innit well,
that was my story we were doingmy story, you did your story, I
had to do my story yeahexcellent, anyway.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
do you have anything else to say?
You did my story, you did yourstory.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I had to do my story.
Excellent.
Anyway, do you have anythingelse to say on apprentices?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
No, not at all, just that they're much better to
employ than graduates.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Not necessarily.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Please write us your comments on what you think to
the motion of graduates can'tcompete.
I'll be really interested toknow.
Obviously, you know that me anddad are different sides of the
fence, but I would love to hearyour comments to know what you
think on the matter.
Um, so now we are into ourunfiltered minute, so I'll start
with with mine, because youknow we've been talking about me
(28:05):
for ages, so let's just carryon um.
So this week we had a practiceassurance review.
So we're regulated accountants,so we have to, every three to
five years, have a practiceassurance review, where they
literally tear your businessapart and make sure you're doing
(28:26):
every single little thingproperly.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
It's like an Ofsted inspection.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, it's sort of like Ofsted for accountants.
Yeah, it is like that and it'svery nerve wracking.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I think I actually did go in, didn't I?
When we were having our finalsum up and I said to the guy I
feel like a naughty school boy.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, you did.
Said to the guy I feel like anaughty school boy.
Yeah, you did come into thehead teacher but I mean it's
it's hard going but it is goodand it's really good to know
that if you're you're with aregulated accountant, that
they're getting everythingchecked.
I think from our client's pointof view it is a great thing
that we have it done.
(29:01):
But making sure the man hadeverything he needed for this
review in one place was quite alot of work.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well, it was for you.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And I'm quite happy it's over.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
So am I, because maybe my wine stocks won't be.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Maybe not.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Deplenished as quickly, but you did most of the
work.
Yeah, in fact, I did find theICO certificate, which ended up
being wrong.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, the one thing.
And I asked you about the DBSchecks and you were like, yeah,
me and mum have them.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And that was it.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
And actually you did have a DBS check.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I did, but not for one account.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah even so.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I've got one now.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, good, did you pass.
Yes, oh, that's right.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Just asking.
That'd be awkward on thepodcast, wouldn't?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
it Wouldn't it.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
So yeah, that's my little story of the week that we
did get through it and I thinkwe pretty much passed with
flying colours.
It was only that ICOcertificate that if you are a
business, everyone has to havean ICO registration.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It is worth just doing that holds data.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, it's worth doing their little online quiz
to make sure you're in the righttier, because they have
different tiers and they don'tevaluate it um as as they go,
they'll just take the directdebit, so just make sure that
you've not gone into tier twoand we'd gone into tier two.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
But we didn't know.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
We've gone into tier two no, because we didn't know
there were different tiers.
Yeah, so just check that bit ofadvice.
Just check your tiering isright on your ICO thing.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And the tiering should follow.
What a micro and small companyis.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
But like most government things, it doesn't
follow the new legislation whenit changes.
So the legislation's nowchanged on turnover, so we would
be tier one, probably now.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Well, that's annoying , isn't it?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
But we're not.
We're tier two because theyhaven't changed the criteria to
match the current rules.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Well, very frustrating.
But just a little bit of adviceCheck your tier.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, when I say current rules, I mean compared
to Companies House.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, okay, all right .
So what's your unfilteredminute?
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Oh, do you know what?
So we've gone through.
This quality assurance visitprotects our clients.
They know that all our teamdoes CPD.
In fact, kerry had a CPD reviewby the AAT as an individual one
.
But we make sure and she passed,obviously with flying colours,
but we make sure everyone's upto date.
(31:47):
We make sure all our insurancesare up to date, we make sure
that our ICO certificate's right.
But we just our AML procedures.
We make sure everything isright, don't we?
That costs us to do that.
So not just in software but intime.
We've got people that work withus.
(32:08):
That that's all they do.
So we pay a salary, you know,for someone to do all this.
Yeah, so you know it's notcheap for us as a business to do
that from a cost point of view,let alone what's right for the
client.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
So what happened when we sat down?
We were like, phew, that's over, really good, good meeting with
the guy that reviewed us.
Lo and behold, one of our smallclients decides to go to Fred
in the Shed.
If your name's Fred on here,sorry about that.
Or Fred they're much cheaper.
(32:45):
So we looked at the website.
We thought ok, how can someonebe that much cheaper?
Looked at the website there'sno regulation.
The website's about two pageslong yep of course they're
cheaper.
They're not doing what we do,they're not keeping up to date
like we do, so the end bill ischeaper.
(33:06):
But how many cheaper firms doyou do?
We see that cost a lot of money, particularly in terms of
clients for tax, particularly insupporting the business.
I mean, what about that?
We saw a client you know didn'twant to go over the VAT
threshold.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
You know, because their accountant said there's a
lot of work to do, but it's allright.
The accountant was cheap, yeah,so I just kind of.
That's just what gets my bloodboiling.
We've just been through allthat and this client goes to a
cheaper firm Unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
It's not just cheaper , it's unregulated so they?
Yeah, they're cheaper becausethey don't have to do all of the
additional work that aregulated firm do.
But the benefit if you'relistening to this and thinking,
oh well, I could save a bit ofmoney going to an unregulated
one.
The problem is, if they're notup to date, you'll be losing out
(34:04):
on the tax and you'll also ifthere is a problem, if you get
an investigation.
If there's a problem, you'vegot nothing to fall back on.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
No.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
You can't do anything about it.
You are putting you and yourbusiness at risk by doing that.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
And your livelihoods.
You wouldn't go to a doctor andnot expect them to be a doctor,
would you?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
No, no, you wouldn't.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So I just kind of it's just, I think it's an area
that's really annoying.
Yeah, don't get me wrong.
Everyone makes mistakes, youknow.
I'm sure we've made mistakes,but we have processes in place
to deal with those.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, and we have processes in place to deal with
those.
Yeah and uh, you know, and wehave insurance.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
At the end of the day , to cope with that exactly um
but yeah, so that that was myrant of the week, having gone
through that visit and literallysitting back on the chair and
this client saying they, they'regoing somewhere cheaper, that's
unregulated, yeah, unbelievableanyway that was a rant that was
a rant oh, I feel it gets mygoat it does.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah, so our question for the week isn't one that
somebody sent in, because nobodysent me a question, which was
really sad so please send me aquestion for next week, because
that'll really just make my day,um, but this is a question we
just had in general, which wascan we return to you as a client
?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, I know this was after about I don't know what
three or four years.
So this particular businessfamily business, lovely business
decided that a regional firmwas where they needed to be,
because they needed a regionalfirm was where they needed to be
because they needed a regional.
You know they're much betterthan us little tiny firm that is
(35:48):
as well qualified as that firmyeah.
And provides much better.
You know, they were very sortof big fish in a small pond with
us and they became very smallfish in a big pond and
apparently they weren'treturning their calls.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Oh, really, yeah, what a surprise, what a surprise
, but we see this, don't we?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, we do you know the grass is always greener on
the other side, because my matedown at the pub said these
people are brilliant, so theyleft us about three or four
years ago.
Yeah, and they're about to comeback, yep, which you know, does
we're pleased about.
We are, um, you know, we love,we love the family, um, we, you
(36:28):
know, and we see their businessgrowing and we just think that's
great.
Um, but the grass isn't alwaysgreener, unfortunately.
As a business, we have tosometimes go through that pain
for people to realize that yeah,we've accepted them back.
We don't accept everyone back,because some of them are proper
pitter client yeah can't swearon it no, you can't but we have
(36:53):
accepted them back and you knowwe look forward to work from
them.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
So that was a great, a great question, um, but it'll
be on our terms yeah, exactly itwill be, and I think it's quite
nice for us to know that thedifferences we think we have as
a small family business yeah areaccurate.
We.
They're coming back becausethey want the phone calls
answered, they want to feel likethey're loved, they want the
(37:18):
help, and which is what we saywe deliver.
And it's nice to know that wedo deliver and that when we say
our competitors aren'tdelivering, on that we're right
as well.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I think the butchers do that, don't they?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
What.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Deliver.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Oh my goodness, the dad jokes are full on today.
They're so full on.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
It's even made me laugh.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
At least it made one of us laugh.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Absolutely.
I think that what is alsoreally good there is that you
know it was embarrassing forthem to pick that phone up and
say can we come back?
Yeah, and I know, because Iknow this person, I know that
that's probably taken them sixto 12 months to ask that
question.
Yeah, and I know, because Iknow this person, I know that
that's probably taken them sixto 12 months to ask that
question.
Yeah, so and we and, but theydid ask it and it does take.
(38:11):
You know, it takes someone whois probably a business owner and
understands what's what.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, and sometimes you have to just.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
We just sat back and waited.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, anyway, I think that's it for this week so
that's it for this week withBusiness of the Donos.
If you liked this episode,please subscribe, share it with
a business owner that you knowand leave us a review.
It will really help us to boostour accessibility with our
podcast.
But for now, we will see younext week.
(38:41):
Yes, bye.
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