July 7, 2025 • 40 mins
Struggling to price your services confidently? You're not alone. This candid conversation between Jade and Paul Dono tackles the widespread problem of business owners undervaluing their expertise and time.
We've noticed a pattern across our client base—and in our own accounting practice—where small business owners consistently undercharge, overdeliver, and ultimately burn out. Drawing from real examples, we explore why so many entrepreneurs fall into this trap and how it creates a cycle that hinders business growth and personal wellbeing.
The signs are often subtle: quickly offering discounts when customers hesitate, constantly performing unpaid work, feeling resentful of client demands, and obsessively comparing your prices to competitors who may not even be profitable themselves. But recognizing these patterns is the first step toward breaking them.
Through practical guidance and personal stories, we share strategies for determining your true value, including gathering testimonials, understanding the problems you solve, protecting your time, and learning to confidently communicate your worth. We explain why saying no to ill-fitting clients might be one of the most profitable decisions you'll make, and how proper pricing creates perceived value that attracts the right customers.
This episode isn't just about making more money (though that's certainly a benefit)—it's about creating a sustainable business that allows you the freedom and flexibility that likely motivated you to become an entrepreneur in the first place. Whether you're just starting out or have been in business for years, these insights will help you break free from undervaluing patterns and price with confidence.
Listen in and discover how knowing your true worth transforms not just your bottom line, but your entire business experience.
🎧 Listen now on Spotify & Apple Music and don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review – and send us your questions for future episodes!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Business with the Donos, where we talk
about family business andeverything in between.
I'm your host, jade Dono, andI'm here with my dad, paul Dono,
and this week we are talkingabout knowing your value.
So, dad, you came up with thistopic, so why now?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Why now?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
What inspired you why ?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
now, what inspired you?
Well, it's just kind of we, wedo a lot of work for so-called
free and I've been having a lotof talks with other accountants
etc.
And and I don't think theclients quite understand the
amount of work we do for people,um, and then how we value that.
And obviously, you know, raisea fee etc, um, and I just think
that it kind of makes you sitback and think are we getting
(00:50):
value?
Um, are we actually educatingthe, the client, the customer,
um, on the amount of work thatwe do?
Yeah, you know, especially withthings like making tax digital
coming in, you know there's a.
Was it a thing?
We went to saw Ian Phillips,didn't we from Xero?
(01:11):
Yeah, and you know his big thingwas that you know the pricing
of making tax digital was goingto be a race to the bottom and I
don't think that peopleunderstand what is actually
involved and how we do it.
And I think also the valuething has come in.
And I know we we touched on ourlast podcast.
You know we had a fullregulatory visit and literally
(01:33):
just as we finished that we thenlose a client to an unregulated
person that doesn't have to dowhat we have to do and we lost
them on price yeah, yeah, but Ithink as well this isn't just us
we see it with.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
We see it with our clients all the time that they
don't know the value of whatthey do.
Um, I think it's a bit of asmall business mind not mindset,
a sort of imposter syndrome,that you're running this
business and then you feel likeyou should be giving stuff for
free or discounted or and reallynot understanding your value at
(02:13):
all.
And it's something we see a lotwith a lot of people we act for
.
And then we see it withourselves as well.
So it's really easy to relateto um, especially when you
aren't working really hard inthe background and then your
customer or client doesn't seeor understand what you've put
into it.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Um, yeah, and I mean I think a good point of that was
years and years and years agothat a client that is still a
client of ours and a good friendof ours um basically would go
and do some work at one end ofthe country, come down and stop
at three or four service calls.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Little tiny things.
He was only billing 50, 75 quidfor what he was doing but
couldn't be bothered to bill it.
So, you know, he then tooksomeone on who actually then
married.
So he then took someone on um,who actually then married um, so
he then took someone on andthey added all these little 50s
(03:11):
and 75 quids up and it wasactually a lot but in his mind
that had no value because it wasonly a you know, 15, 20 minute
stop and you know he could havea comfort break on his way back
down, etc.
But you know, you kind of youlook at that.
You think, okay, these littletiny things that add up and and
the and the customer is quitehappy to pay it.
So you know, you kind of youlook at that.
You think, okay, these littletiny things add up and and the
and the customer is quite happyto pay it.
So yeah, you know he felt thatthere was no value in that.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Um, you know, and I know that, yeah, she changed his
mindset quite, quite rapidly onthat and it made a difference
yeah, we were actually talkingto someone the other day I think
it was yesterday, actually amarketing company and and the
guy said that the I can'tremember what he was, who he was
doing the marketing for somesports team and they couldn't
(03:51):
afford the marketing prices.
So he decided to do it for freeand he said he had the most
criticism and like backwards andforwardsing with this
particular sports team and hewas doing it for nothing.
So then he was resenting itbecause he wasn't doing it for
any money and they were beingdemanding and so he, like he
(04:16):
really stabbed himself in the inthe back and I am all for being
charitable.
I think like we should giveback where we can in the
community and everything butsometimes you do have to step
back and think should I havedone that?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
well, yeah, I mean, look at I mean quite you know
different.
You sort of look at charities.
We do some some sort ofcharitable work for charities.
Some are really, reallythankful, really, you know, oh,
you're doing such a great job,you know, I'm really pleased
with it.
You know, you, you're doingsuch a great job, you know, I'm
really pleased with it.
You know, you've reallysupported us, blah, blah, blah,
and others just give you ahassle.
Well, you've not done this.
And now, oh, we're gonna have.
(04:52):
We've got a meeting in, we'vegot a meeting tomorrow.
We want a full set of accounts,but they're not paying for it.
Yeah, so how on earth does thatequate?
but it's almost because wehaven't almost valued our fees
they then don't value theservice, and that happens across
across the board sometimes yeah, yeah, I mean look at the
(05:14):
sports teams we've supportedover the last few years you know
, we've bought kit and we've,you know, funded something.
You know some are like oh, it'sreally great bungy on social
media, big thank yous.
You know, give us the promotionthat that you know really.
You know, as a small businesswe should get um and then others
are like right, thanks well, Idon't one that we heavily
(05:39):
donated to last year.
They didn't even thank us no,that was um, that was poor um,
but you know, and then they'llgo, you're not supporting us
anymore.
It's like well, no, it worksboth ways.
So value comes in many, manysort of like, you know, shapes
and sizes, and for us to donatea lot of money requires a lot of
(06:01):
effort and it comes out of ourprofits, comes out of your mind
pockets exactly, yeah, um, soyeah with with knowing your
value.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I think it matters because if you know what you're
worth, you'll price yourselfproperly.
Yeah, you'll avoid that burnout, so you'll.
If you don't and we did havethis if you don't price yourself
properly, you'll end up with somuch work and yet you won't be
making any money.
So avoid that.
(06:33):
I had to do a huge exercisechanging some of our fees.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
No, you did and I think that, as a small business
so I'm laughing Josh has juststood at the window with Django
smiling.
So as a small business, I thinkthat you often go in cheap
because you want the work.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And I was talking to people yesterday about this and
that's a bit of a false economy.
Yes, you will get the work.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You will more than likely get work that is going to
give you more hassle, but asyou grow you've still got that
value that you've got to try andwork to.
So if you're, for argument'ssake, a painter and decorator
and you do someone's lounge for50 quid when actually you should
have charged 400 quid, thatmight be all well and good at
(07:32):
the time, because that's whatyou want to earn.
But what happens?
As you get busy?
Because you will get busy atthose sort of rates and if your
work's really good, you will geteven more work.
What then happens?
A you let people down and B youwant to employ people.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, you're not going to pay someone for a day's
work for 50 quid.
You're just not going to happennowadays and it's, you know,
minimum wage.
What you're gonna get out ofthat?
You're gonna get what three anda half four hours at the most
out of someone so you've got tomake a profit on someone else's
wage.
You've got to think long term,you know.
You think what is gonna happenin the future and how much have
(08:08):
I got to pay a salary?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
yeah, and I think that is a huge thing.
Like in our industry, we wantto employ qualified people.
That's not a cheap thing to beable to do, and so we have to
price accordingly so that we canhave the best team possible to
provide the best service.
And that is the case for manyother businesses who want to
(08:31):
grow.
You've got to price properlyand know your value early on to
be able to move forward.
Otherwise you will come reallyunstuck when you do want to hire
people and, yeah, you'll getburnt out just trying to do it
yourself.
Um, it's one of those things alot of people get really scared
(08:53):
of, like upping their prices.
Um, what if we lose people?
But it's like if you lose, Iknow, five percent of your
client base, but then you gainback a whole day's worth of time
, what?
What do you need more for youpersonally?
Why are you upping those prices?
(09:13):
So I think it's knowing whatyou want as well.
And, yeah, one of the otherthings as well is like
attracting the right kind ofclient.
You've got to know who you'reaiming towards and then pricing
yourself towards that as well,because, like weatherspoons, for
example, the's awful.
(09:34):
But that doesn't matter.
They've priced it to serve whatthey're serving.
It's cheap, cheerful, and thatis what they do.
I'm right next to the sale bydate and it tastes terrible.
That's neither here nor there.
It works for them, it's a goodbusiness model for them.
It doesn't work for you, butyou're not their customer.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You're not their customer.
No, I'm not, you're not.
But don't even let dogs in butthere'll be plenty of people
listening who like aweatherspoons yeah, I'm sure
there is but it's becausethey're cheap, cheerful, they
can go for a night out and notspend too much money.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh my goodness when I say beer, I mean proper beer,
not like sort of lager-y stuffthat josh drinks ah, but you
want to attract the right typeof client so you've, got to know
that and price towards thatmarket as well.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Because, like, yeah, so as well, you want to protect
your time.
Yes, time you want.
You're running a business, andyou're running a business for a
reason.
A lot of people run their ownbusiness because they want to
either really jump two feet intothe industry that they're going
into, they're really passionateabout it, they want more time
(10:45):
with their family and for theirwork to be more flexible and
they want to make money.
That they're like.
Your main, your main reasonsbut yeah, one we see all of the
time is the flexibility andwanting more time to spend with
your family, and so you've gotto protect that.
If you don't know your valueand you're burnt out, you're not
(11:08):
going to get that time.
In fact, you're going to workway harder than you would if you
were employed and probably makeless.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So you have to really think about it yeah, and you've
got to get your value right, um, and write down what you want
to do.
You know I like to create alittle bit of time for myself.
I'm not going to mentionplaying golf, but you know I do
like.
I do like to make a bit of timethere and there's a reason for
doing that.
So get the value right andhopefully it allows me to do it
(11:38):
and obviously make you do allthe work, obviously.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
So the common signs you're undervaluing yourself
because you might not be.
You might be absolutely finerunning your business at exactly
where you need to be, but thesigns that you're undervaluing
yourself could be that you'reundervaluing yourself could be
that you're discounting yourprices too quickly so you might
get a customer come in and assoon as they have any sort of
wobble on the price or just look, just have a little look on
(12:07):
their face you might go oh, I'llgive you 50 off.
That automatically shows thatyou don't even think it's worth
the price you're charging well,absolutely, but there's a great
book out there.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Never split the difference yeah that is
brilliant about a sort of CIAagent and never splitting the
difference.
And that's about you know sortof hostages and you sort of say
to the you know the, the personholding the hostages, that's
okay, you can kill three of them, but leave seven out.
You know you're not gonna.
You're not gonna agree to that,are you?
You can kill three of them, butleave seven out.
You're not going to agree tothat, are you?
(12:37):
So you're never going to splitthe difference and you work that
back to your pricing.
It's a really, really good book.
I can't remember who it's by.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I can't remember it's definitely called Split the
Difference and he's also been onDiary of a CEO on that podcast
and that's really good.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Obviously not as good as this podcast obviously not
nowhere near as many listeners.
Stephen Bartlett a few things,I'm sure maybe we'll invite him
on maybe get him as a guest.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Maybe you'll have us as a guest, michelle Obama,
jaden Paldono.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I think that's definitely on the cards.
It really is.
But, um, but yeah, so yeah,don't, don't give discounts.
Um, quickly get your valueright and your proposition right
and what you're doing right aswell.
And I think you know when weget this from the team as well,
don't we?
When we say, well, why didn'tyou charge for that share
(13:34):
restructure?
Oh, it didn't take me long.
Well, it did, because you spentmany years learning it.
You know you've got yourqualifications, you've got your
continual professionaldevelopment, of which you know
most of us do 30, 40, 50 hours ayear extra to learn these
things.
So it may be that it might nothave taken you so long if you
(14:00):
actually sort of, you know thesoftware's doing it, etc.
But we've invested in all thatwe've invested in that knowledge
to be able to do that and to doit right.
So there is a value to that.
Not just you know, going backto you know friends or mending
things on the way back.
There's a value to it and onlythat person could do it and do
(14:20):
it right.
But it's their knowledge thatyou're doing it for.
So you've got to get that valueright and you've got to be
appreciated for it.
And sometimes we do things forpeople that they don't really
understand what we're doingBecause we are accountants.
Most people don't.
It's dark out yeah.
So we now say to our team justgive them a proposal, even if
(14:42):
we're not charging, justoutlining what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, just so they know.
Yeah, and that was my next signthat you're undervaluing
yourself.
And this is something we do allthe time, which is the
over-delivering or giving toomuch away for free.
Yeah, it's, it is somethingthat I think.
When you do something in, dayin, day out, you think stuff's
(15:05):
easy, but actually it does havea value.
Like you said, people need yourhelp and your expertise and it
does have a value.
Um, so you just need to reallythink of what you're doing next
time, and I am all I do thinkyou should try and provide as
much value for your clients andcustomers as you can, but you've
(15:28):
got to think is this at thedetriment of of the business?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
yeah, I mean, I go back to my sort of painter
decorating.
You know you sort of look atand we we've done it to people.
You know you sort of likethey've come to paint your, your
, your lounge or something andthen your door needs rehanging
so you go, can you just hang thedoor?
yeah, you know and off they goand they trundle along and they
do it and they've not given youa bill.
(15:54):
And you think that's a bitweird.
Why don't you give me a bill?
Because if you've ever seen metrying to hang a door, you know,
even if I've taken the hingesoff to take something through a
doorway, I still can't put it upstraight.
So I think people are preparedto pay.
It's just you've obviouslyundervalued what you're capable
of doing, you know, and and thatgoes for so many small
(16:15):
businesses- yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I mean we had it the other day and I mean it was
great.
So I'm gonna mention it, um,because it was.
It was great for me and josh,so we went to I didn't tell you
this, um, it was josh's 30thbirthday and we went to london
and we went 30th yeah, didn'ttell me yeah, 30.
Wow, he's old, so old nextdecade um, but me and josh went
to london.
We went on the train, we wentfrom whittlesford parkway and
(16:40):
they've now the pub that's rightby that station literally right
by it has now got a little sortof coffee bit where you can get
a coffee to go for your train,which is really good, because if
anybody has been towhittlesford parkway, there is
normally nothing there.
You can't get coffee, you can'tget a cake or anything, so we
went in um, so did you havecoffee and cake?
(17:00):
no, let me tell my story, geez.
So we went in and, um, I askedfor my coffee and Josh said oh,
I'd like a cake please.
And the lady said oh, I'mreally sorry, I can't serve
these because we've had a bit ofa um ant problem and they were
out and she's like I can't servethem.
They're literally just there tolook pretty at the moment.
(17:22):
I need to throw them away.
And Josh said oh, that's fine,I have a packet of crisps.
Then and she said oh, I tellyou what, because she wanted the
cake, you can have the crispson me.
And I was like, oh, that'sreally nice.
But then she took it one stepfurther.
When she gave me my coffee, shesaid no, you can have that as
well.
Nice, which was really nice.
I mean great customer service.
Now I'm saying it on thispodcast.
(17:43):
I think it's the red lion nextto the train station.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
You've probably got her sacked.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
No, I hope not.
But I'm giving you publicity.
Don't sack the lady.
She.
I'm giving you publicity.
Don't sack the lady.
She was so nice, but I mean she, we didn't care about not
having the cake, but she gave usthose two things for free and
she really didn't need to,because we were more than
prepared to pay for it.
And I understood the crisps,because I thought, well, if Josh
(18:11):
couldn't have what he wanted,and it was his birthday.
And it was his birthday.
That's a nice thing to do, butthe coffee as well.
I was like, oh, it's one steptoo far, but I was happy
regardless.
But still I sound reallyungrateful.
I'm not ungrateful From abusiness perspective.
She didn't need to do it.
No, because we'd have been justas happy with the free Chris.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
And she was very friendly and chatty and wished
Josh a happy birthday.
So customer service was there,yeah, and I think you've got to
communicate what your value is.
You know how many people havewe said to you know, we charge x
for a tax return and they goit's only a p60 and a dividend
voucher and you go.
Well, no, actually it's also awhole list of stuff that we are
going through to make sure thattax returns right yeah and you
go, like you know things likeyour student loan.
(19:01):
Oh, I didn't think about studentloan.
No, of course you didn't,because you don't do it, you
know.
But we did start once upon atime doing a sort of like a mot
style checklist.
Didn't we giving that toclients?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
we stopped doing that we should.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
We should bring that back, because people don't
understand what we actually dowhat checklist are you referring
to?
The one that we don't doanymore are we sure about that?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
do we do it now?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
well, do we give it to the clients as well?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
well, when they, when their tax return is due, we
send them a checklist.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Oh, yeah, but no, this is a checklist of what
we've done.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Oh, I see.
I'm like well, I've definitelymade a checklist, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Have we checked their home addresses right?
Have we got this?
Have we done that?
Is it the same as the AML?
These are things that peopledon't do.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
No, and we do make sure everything is right.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So it's not just us valuing what we do, it's making
sure that the client or thecustomer is aware that what
we've done, like the hanging ofthe door you know, if they put a
new hinge on because the otherhinge was a bit rusty or a bit
WD-40 or something you knowthese are things they would
think about to make that doorfit properly.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's more signs as well thatyou're undervaluing yourself.
I've only got through two.
Another one is doubting whetheryou deserve to charge more sort
of having a bit of impostersyndrome, thinking, oh, but I
don't know whether I'm the best,so I don't know whether I can
charge that.
Like you need to look atyourself and and see whether you
(20:34):
can charge more.
Like you should value yourselfas much as your service
Absolutely.
And another thing is as well isif you're constantly comparing
yourself to competitors.
We had a client who did this.
All the time they were likewell, we can't charge that
because they're charging thisand they're giving away all of
(20:55):
this for free.
But when we actually looked up,their competitor weren't making
any money yeah so we were likewell, like you can copy your
competitor but you won't have abusiness, so you need, if you're
gonna, you should look at yourcompetition.
That is important, but youshouldn't base all of your
(21:15):
pricing off of your competitionand do what fits you.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
You know, we, we collect all our fees by direct
debit.
Yeah, you know.
And how many people have weseen in service industries that
go, oh, we can't do it like that, that.
You know, the industry won'tlet us, our customers won't let
do direct debit.
No, you know, we'd rather wait90 days and and then have to
change them, and I, when we goback and go, well, actually our
industry was the same, but itsuited us to go by direct debit
(21:43):
and not one client Well, itactually is one client, because
he probably hasn't even got acomputer and he writes a check.
It's just one client.
But you know, everyone pays bydirect debit.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Without exception.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
They do, and that's something we've decided on and
we've stuck to.
We've been consistent and thatis very important.
And then I think another thing,with another sign that you're
undervaluing yourself is ifyou're annoyed at your clients
because they're asking, orcustomers because they're asking
for too much and you knowthey're not paying for it, that
(22:21):
is a common sign you'reundervaluing what you're doing.
Yeah, so if you're, if any ofthose common signs stick out to
you, you probably need to lookat your pricing, look at your
service and see, see what needsto change, because otherwise
you're gonna, as a businessowner, you're gonna burn out.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
That's the absolutely that's, and you're not gonna be
able to grow no.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So my next pointer is how?
How do you figure out your truevalue?
How do you actually figure thatout?
So I think we've touched on afew things.
I think you've got to know whatyou want, who you're, who
you're targeting um.
You've got to look at all ofthose things first and foremost.
(23:05):
Do you want more time?
Do you want more profits?
Do you want um more customers?
Do you want to target um highnet worth people?
Do you want to target themasses?
What?
What do you want?
Um?
And once you figure that out,you'll figure out how to value
what you're doing.
(23:26):
Um.
Another thing you can do is lookat give yourself a confidence
boost, look at your testimonialsand look at your reviews.
If you haven't got any ask forsome, just send a little survey
out to all your customers.
See where you're at, see whatthey're feeling as well, because
you can't grow your businesswithout any feedback on what
(23:48):
you're doing.
I think business owners getscared of getting feedback in
case it's negative, but, quitefrankly, if you get negative
feedback, you can improve.
If you just don't ask forfeedback, you can't act on
anything.
You're just merrily rollingalong.
So get that and you'll findthat most of the people who
(24:08):
write your reviews will give youreal positivity and that will
give you a real boost to knowyour value, to people.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I mean, there's been some reviews, isn't there where
people have come back and you'rethinking, oh no, what are they
going to say about us?
And actually they've beenreally complimentary and you're
like, oh okay, that's great.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, that's good fun .
It's always really good andit's especially good for us.
And I love when they highlightso many big sighs when they
highlight a team member.
I love it when they do thatbecause sometimes Especially
with me.
Oh no, sometimes like say, likeCharlotte, for instance, I might
(24:46):
not see what she's doing sortof day to day, but then if we
get a client and say, oh yeah,charlotte's amazing, that really
then boosts that you know we'redoing a good job, not just like
the whole team is doing a goodjob.
It's really nice, and it'sreally nice then to share it
throughout the team as well.
So another thing to figure outyour true value is to really
(25:14):
look at the problem that yourbusiness solves.
It depends on what yourbusiness is and what that is
worth to find that solution forpeople absolutely um, yeah, do
you have any tips to figure outyour true value?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Tips to figure out your.
Yeah, I think you're right.
You know, just do what's bestfor your business.
Yes, take a note of theindustry that you're in, but
only take a note of it.
You know what works for youmight not work for someone else.
And then when you actuallydrill down on it and you know,
don't always believe what goeson social media and don't always
believe what goes on socialmedia.
(25:55):
There's a lot of oh yeah, we'regreat and we've done this and
we've just worked for Microsoftor something like that but
they've probably made the tea.
When you actually go in there,not everything that you see in
the public domain is correct.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
That was on the.
Apprentice that I watched inthe interviews they said oh,
you've worked with all of theseamazing brands, but what they'd
actually done was sent mock-upsto all the brands.
They're not worked with them.
They just sent the mock-ups, um, and then put it all over their
website well, there you go.
So, yeah, don't believeeverything you see on social
(26:30):
media from your competitors.
No, not at all and in terms ofcommunicating your value, I
think the biggest tip we cangive is to be confident and
really believe it yourself.
Like, if you don't, I'm quotingRuPaul here for all of you drag
(26:53):
listeners, drag race listenersdad is not one.
He's looking at me so confused.
But if you don't love yourself,how the hell are you gonna love
somebody else?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
oh, that's why I've never had any problems yeah, so
you had no problems.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
But in this case, if you don't value yourself and
your service, how on earth doyou expect your customers to do
the same thing?
Absolutely um, so you just needto be confident with your price
.
Don't hesitate, because thenpeople know that you also don't
think it should be that much orthat little.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
It could be either way, really yeah, um, I mean,
we've seen people price stuffthat is actually less than what
it costs them.
Yeah, you know, we've seenpeople sell stuff that you go.
Why have you sold it for that?
Because it's cost you this.
Yeah, oh, didn't realise.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
And that's where knowing your numbers is really
important.
Yeah, and if you don't knowwhat you're making per like if
you're manufacturing something,if you don't know what you're
making per item, that's aproblem For us in the
(28:02):
service-based industry if wedon't know what we're making per
sort of staff member.
That is a problem, yeah, um, soknowing your numbers is really
important as well.
Um, and a bit of a marketingtip on this, like, if you know
you're providing great value,show it.
Show it all over your socials,show it to your clients.
This is what I can do, or mybusiness can do, my team can do.
Shout about it from therooftops.
(28:26):
And the next thing and youfound this really really hard
and you're better at it now sayno to the clients that don't fit
, or customers that don't fit.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
I might have said yes to a couple that I shouldn't
have done over the years.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So many.
So much better now, yeah, butas a business owner, you want
all the work to come in, andthat is I.
I completely understand that.
Like you want that revenue.
But quite frankly, like we justsaid, if you're getting a
customer in, if it's not acommunity-based thing or a
charitable thing, and you've gotthem in and you're not making
(29:04):
any money on it and they're nothappy because they're also not
the right fit for you, no onewins in this situation.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
It's it's a lose-lose no, it does take a few years to
understand that, though it doesyeah.
Saying no actually can be oneof the most profitable decisions
you make yeah, and it makes fora happier client base because
yeah, as soon as you, and teamyeah yeah absolutely, because if
you get the wrong fit, it justupsets everyone.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, so that's something to think about.
I do know that that is hard.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It is hard.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It's really hard to do, but you've just got to think
about it.
My next and last point on thisis just changing your mindset.
Everybody gets a bit ofimposter syndrome.
Apart from dad, um, everyonegets it.
It affects, I think, prettylike you know, 99.9 of the
(30:03):
population where you doubtyourself and your business and
your service and what you canprovide.
You need to really try andeliminate that from your psyche
and try and be confident in whatyou're delivering.
And I know, like for mum, shestruggles with this, with her
wellness coaching she'll andshe'd be the first to say it
(30:25):
that she wants to knoweverything before she can, you
know, close the sale.
She's done so many courses, somuch reading, um, she's so
knowledgeable and yet she stillhas imposter syndrome talking to
people.
But she knows far more aboutwellness and sort of the
nutrition side of things as wellthan anybody I know, yeah, and
(30:47):
yet she still gets that.
So you need to just reallythink about what you know
compared to others and, yeah,consider your own personal value
as well and that'll really helpabsolutely so I think, do you
have any just like quick tipsyou want to finish on?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
quick tips?
No, not really.
Just, you know, be confident.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Know your value.
What you might think is simpleisn't simple for other people.
Yeah, and I think what's it?
We got the most tax returnclients, didn't we?
One year?
Because in January, everysingle day, I did a tip on how
to fill in your tax return,every day.
And we got more clients becausewe showed the value that we
(31:36):
give in those tips and peoplethat thought they could do it
themselves picked up on that.
Actually, oh, that's a bitstrange, I didn't even think of
that.
And then we got more work.
Yeah, and that was um aninteresting one really, so yeah
and also I forgot to mentionthis.
Oh, another one.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Just perceived value.
Look at how you see things inthe marketplace.
So my example to Dad earlierwas wine.
If you see a £2 bottle of wineon the shelf, you're going to go
.
That's going to be rank, that'sgoing to be horrendous.
I'm not buying that.
If you see like a £30, bottle.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
You don't buy it anyway, it's me.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Oh yeah, drink your wine.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I know.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
But if you see a £30 bottle on the shelf, you're
going to think you go Dad, youbuy that.
Regardless of who is buying thewine, the £30 bottle you're
automatically going to thinkthat that is better than the £2
bottle of wine, just because ofthe perceived value, just
(32:40):
because they are charging more.
Now it could be that those,both of those wine bottles, both
of the contents of the wine isthe same it took the same amount
of preparation that it could bethat that two pound bottle of
wine is very, very good for itsprice, but you're not going to
buy it.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
No, I would.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
But she wouldn't buy the more expensive wine.
Because she wouldn't value it.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
No.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
But my thought thing is thought thing.
Whatever I'm trying to think ofis that you perceive value by
how much you charge.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
And that then as well will dictate, who buys your
product absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
But in the case of the wine also, if the wine
producer says this is how we doit, you know, this comes from
the same grape, the samevineyard, etc.
You're always two pound.
One comes from all the dregs,from everything else.
If you kind of give that valueand show it, then the customer
will know, appreciate why thereis a difference.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yes, they will, but equally, you could say the same
for clothes as well.
So, like, if you go to I don'tknow Primark, it's going to be
cheap, cheerful, you know whatyou're getting, that's it.
But if you go to Gucci, it'sgoing to be more, but those two
(33:57):
t-shirts are not going to be allthat dissimilar.
But people still buy Guccibecause of the brand and they
value that brand.
So they'll pay, like what?
£200 more for that t-shirt andit will be different material
and it will be nicer and youknow you have the label whatever
(34:18):
.
But either way, a t-shirt's at-shirt and the perceived value
is all.
On the price, yes, that'slaughing.
I don't know why he's laughing.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I was just laughing at me.
Primani socks.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I've got me Primani socks on Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
I think we're done with finding your value.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I'm valued out.
I think we valued that out.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
We valued that out.
So now we're on to ourunfiltered minute.
So mine is.
Glastonbury was on on at theweekend and on Saturday.
I really wanted to watch Rayand I had to message mum and dad
and I said, oh, can we watchRay the Glastonbury set?
And it was like, yeah, yeah,let's do that, that'd be nice.
(35:09):
Anyway, get there, it's alllovely.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
He was good.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Oh she.
Oh yeah, Dad didn't enjoy it,which is where my story is sort
of going.
So race starts.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Did you enjoy my barbecue though?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, the barbecue was lovely.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Did you enjoy my wine ?
Oh, you're so annoying so onelittle tiny bit you're going to
pick me up on.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yes, I am.
So Ray starts Me and Mum arewatching the telly.
We're watching it, we'reenjoying it.
It's lovely.
Dad's like oh, I'll put theprojector on.
Bearing in mind I'd been therefor about three hours beforehand
, there's plenty of time to setup the projector.
He's like I'll put theprojector on, it only just got
dark.
It wasn't even really dark, buthe was like I'm going to put the
(35:55):
projector on.
So I'm like, okay, anyway, thiswasn't an easy job.
The projector wasn't set up.
He had to get all the leads out, walk in front of me and mum
constantly with the wires he'sclanging about, he's talking to
us about putting the projectoron and then, when he puts the
projector on, finally, about 15minutes later, the sound doesn't
(36:15):
match.
But at this point, it didimprove right.
We were so infuriated by himthat we just watched the set
with the sound not matching theprojector, and then he didn't
even enjoy it.
He just told me the whole timehow much he wasn't enjoying it.
So Ray's set was very good, butthat's my rant.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
So ungrateful it wasn't ungrateful.
It was.
It wasn't really I made you anold-fashioned that made it up
for it.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
You did.
Yeah, the old-fashioned waslovely, the barbecue was lovely,
but we just could havepre-planned.
We could have been proactive,dad, yes, you, we could have
pre-planned.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
We could have been proactive dad.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yes, you could have been.
I wasn't fussed about theprojector, I was quite happy
with the telly did the projectorwork well?
It did work well.
It was very nice.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I've got a new lead now.
Oh, that's good, put it in mybox to never be found again.
I probably had actuallythinking about that.
I probably had a lead andyou've thrown it away because it
was in my lead box.
Now I've had to buy a new leadoff Amazon.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Well, it was needed, wasn't it?
What's your unfiltered minuteDad.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Mine's a bit of a rant.
It is golf related and I knowyou said I'm not allowed to
speak about golf, but I'm alittle bit like this is a bit
annoying.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Business with the Donners, where we talk about
family business and golf.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, so anyway, I am getting a new set of irons for
my birthday, so I know wementioned that on a previous
podcast.
Now mum does know about it.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And it's fine, everything's good.
Wasn't a great deal ofresistance there, so maybe I
should put some woods in thereas well.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
That's another story.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
So, anyway, I've now put down, thanks to Ollie, who's
done a brilliant job innarrowing down two sets of clubs
.
I want to choose between twosets of clubs Ping Eye 230s and
Ping Eye 530s.
You're glazing over at thispoint.
I am yeah, it's about asinteresting as Ray.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
You're glazing over at this point I am.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, it's about as interesting as Ray, and so I
want to try these out.
Okay, so on his phone ping upand said I've got someone here
wants to try these clubs out.
Not sure how it's going to fiton a 5 iron, are we only letting
them test on 7 irons?
But I want to test it on adifferent iron because I'm not
(38:33):
sure whether or not I need 5.30sor 2.30s and the 5 iron is
harder to hit than a 7 iron is,and I know I want to go for
2.30s but I'm not sure that thecommitment financially needs to
be there and the 5.30s is what Iactually got to have.
But Ping seemed really, reallyinflexible on this.
So that means me travelling allthe way to the other side of
Lincoln to go to their fittingcentre, which I was prepared to
(38:56):
do, but I don't think I can trythe clubs I want.
So now we're having to go andscrap round see if there's any
members in the club that havegot the irons.
I want to try and ask themnicely, buy them a cup of coffee
if I can borrow their clubs,because the manufacturer doesn't
(39:16):
want me to try a club that Iwant to try to then buy from
them.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I mean, that makes no sense, makes no sense Of which.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
I then turned around and said to Ollie well, I'll
just buy Tylea's thing, becausethey're only up the roads and.
I'll just go there.
And he said that's daft,because you know you hit these
clubs better.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
So I'm actually Don't cut off your nose to spite your
face.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah, and I have done that a couple of times before.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Have you, don't do that but.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I don't really understand why a pig might Don't
get it, it's not going to harmthe club, is it?
Speaker 2 (39:44):
So I'm waiting for Riley to find me.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, okay, fair enough, that was a half-decent
golf story, apart from all ofthe ip37s I don't know what you
said.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
It's an ip57, but I'm not i-59, I think.
But I'm not going for thatbecause it's more, you know,
it's a more bladey, oh okay.
So yeah, I'm glad you broughtthat one up, okay, I watched the
story on that youtube on thatyoutube.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, ah, good, good to hear.
Okay, I think that's everythingfor this week.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yep, this is our last week before our voyage.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
It is.
Before we hit the seas Beforewe hit the seas on our family
holiday, which is going to bethe topic of our next podcast.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Well done.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
So tune in next week for that.
So thank you for listening toBusiness With the Donos.
Please hit, follow, subscribe,like, like and we will see you
next week.
Welcome to Business with the Donos, where we talk
about family business andeverything in between.
I'm your host, jade Dono, andI'm here with my dad, paul Dono,
and this week we are talkingabout knowing your value.
So, dad, you came up with thistopic, so why now?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Why now?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
What inspired you why ?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
now, what inspired you?
Well, it's just kind of we, wedo a lot of work for so-called
free and I've been having a lotof talks with other accountants
etc.
And and I don't think theclients quite understand the
amount of work we do for people,um, and then how we value that.
And obviously, you know, raisea fee etc, um, and I just think
that it kind of makes you sitback and think are we getting
(00:50):
value?
Um, are we actually educatingthe, the client, the customer,
um, on the amount of work thatwe do?
Yeah, you know, especially withthings like making tax digital
coming in, you know there's a.
Was it a thing?
We went to saw Ian Phillips,didn't we from Xero?
(01:11):
Yeah, and you know his big thingwas that you know the pricing
of making tax digital was goingto be a race to the bottom and I
don't think that peopleunderstand what is actually
involved and how we do it.
And I think also the valuething has come in.
And I know we we touched on ourlast podcast.
You know we had a fullregulatory visit and literally
(01:33):
just as we finished that we thenlose a client to an unregulated
person that doesn't have to dowhat we have to do and we lost
them on price yeah, yeah, but Ithink as well this isn't just us
we see it with.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
We see it with our clients all the time that they
don't know the value of whatthey do.
Um, I think it's a bit of asmall business mind not mindset,
a sort of imposter syndrome,that you're running this
business and then you feel likeyou should be giving stuff for
free or discounted or and reallynot understanding your value at
(02:13):
all.
And it's something we see a lotwith a lot of people we act for
.
And then we see it withourselves as well.
So it's really easy to relateto um, especially when you
aren't working really hard inthe background and then your
customer or client doesn't seeor understand what you've put
into it.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Um, yeah, and I mean I think a good point of that was
years and years and years agothat a client that is still a
client of ours and a good friendof ours um basically would go
and do some work at one end ofthe country, come down and stop
at three or four service calls.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Little tiny things.
He was only billing 50, 75 quidfor what he was doing but
couldn't be bothered to bill it.
So, you know, he then tooksomeone on who actually then
married.
So he then took someone on um,who actually then married um, so
he then took someone on andthey added all these little 50s
(03:11):
and 75 quids up and it wasactually a lot but in his mind
that had no value because it wasonly a you know, 15, 20 minute
stop and you know he could havea comfort break on his way back
down, etc.
But you know, you kind of youlook at that.
You think, okay, these littletiny things that add up and and
the and the customer is quitehappy to pay it.
So you know, you kind of youlook at that.
You think, okay, these littletiny things add up and and the
and the customer is quite happyto pay it.
So yeah, you know he felt thatthere was no value in that.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Um, you know, and I know that, yeah, she changed his
mindset quite, quite rapidly onthat and it made a difference
yeah, we were actually talkingto someone the other day I think
it was yesterday, actually amarketing company and and the
guy said that the I can'tremember what he was, who he was
doing the marketing for somesports team and they couldn't
(03:51):
afford the marketing prices.
So he decided to do it for freeand he said he had the most
criticism and like backwards andforwardsing with this
particular sports team and hewas doing it for nothing.
So then he was resenting itbecause he wasn't doing it for
any money and they were beingdemanding and so he, like he
(04:16):
really stabbed himself in the inthe back and I am all for being
charitable.
I think like we should giveback where we can in the
community and everything butsometimes you do have to step
back and think should I havedone that?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
well, yeah, I mean, look at I mean quite you know
different.
You sort of look at charities.
We do some some sort ofcharitable work for charities.
Some are really, reallythankful, really, you know, oh,
you're doing such a great job,you know, I'm really pleased
with it.
You know, you, you're doingsuch a great job, you know, I'm
really pleased with it.
You know, you've reallysupported us, blah, blah, blah,
and others just give you ahassle.
Well, you've not done this.
And now, oh, we're gonna have.
(04:52):
We've got a meeting in, we'vegot a meeting tomorrow.
We want a full set of accounts,but they're not paying for it.
Yeah, so how on earth does thatequate?
but it's almost because wehaven't almost valued our fees
they then don't value theservice, and that happens across
across the board sometimes yeah, yeah, I mean look at the
(05:14):
sports teams we've supportedover the last few years you know
, we've bought kit and we've,you know, funded something.
You know some are like oh, it'sreally great bungy on social
media, big thank yous.
You know, give us the promotionthat that you know really.
You know, as a small businesswe should get um and then others
are like right, thanks well, Idon't one that we heavily
(05:39):
donated to last year.
They didn't even thank us no,that was um, that was poor um,
but you know, and then they'llgo, you're not supporting us
anymore.
It's like well, no, it worksboth ways.
So value comes in many, manysort of like, you know, shapes
and sizes, and for us to donatea lot of money requires a lot of
(06:01):
effort and it comes out of ourprofits, comes out of your mind
pockets exactly, yeah, um, soyeah with with knowing your
value.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I think it matters because if you know what you're
worth, you'll price yourselfproperly.
Yeah, you'll avoid that burnout, so you'll.
If you don't and we did havethis if you don't price yourself
properly, you'll end up with somuch work and yet you won't be
making any money.
So avoid that.
(06:33):
I had to do a huge exercisechanging some of our fees.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
No, you did and I think that, as a small business
so I'm laughing Josh has juststood at the window with Django
smiling.
So as a small business, I thinkthat you often go in cheap
because you want the work.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And I was talking to people yesterday about this and
that's a bit of a false economy.
Yes, you will get the work.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
You will more than likely get work that is going to
give you more hassle, but asyou grow you've still got that
value that you've got to try andwork to.
So if you're, for argument'ssake, a painter and decorator
and you do someone's lounge for50 quid when actually you should
have charged 400 quid, thatmight be all well and good at
(07:32):
the time, because that's whatyou want to earn.
But what happens?
As you get busy?
Because you will get busy atthose sort of rates and if your
work's really good, you will geteven more work.
What then happens?
A you let people down and B youwant to employ people.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Well, you're not going to pay someone for a day's
work for 50 quid.
You're just not going to happennowadays and it's, you know,
minimum wage.
What you're gonna get out ofthat?
You're gonna get what three anda half four hours at the most
out of someone so you've got tomake a profit on someone else's
wage.
You've got to think long term,you know.
You think what is gonna happenin the future and how much have
(08:08):
I got to pay a salary?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
yeah, and I think that is a huge thing.
Like in our industry, we wantto employ qualified people.
That's not a cheap thing to beable to do, and so we have to
price accordingly so that we canhave the best team possible to
provide the best service.
And that is the case for manyother businesses who want to
(08:31):
grow.
You've got to price properlyand know your value early on to
be able to move forward.
Otherwise you will come reallyunstuck when you do want to hire
people and, yeah, you'll getburnt out just trying to do it
yourself.
Um, it's one of those things alot of people get really scared
(08:53):
of, like upping their prices.
Um, what if we lose people?
But it's like if you lose, Iknow, five percent of your
client base, but then you gainback a whole day's worth of time
, what?
What do you need more for youpersonally?
Why are you upping those prices?
(09:13):
So I think it's knowing whatyou want as well.
And, yeah, one of the otherthings as well is like
attracting the right kind ofclient.
You've got to know who you'reaiming towards and then pricing
yourself towards that as well,because, like weatherspoons, for
example, the's awful.
(09:34):
But that doesn't matter.
They've priced it to serve whatthey're serving.
It's cheap, cheerful, and thatis what they do.
I'm right next to the sale bydate and it tastes terrible.
That's neither here nor there.
It works for them, it's a goodbusiness model for them.
It doesn't work for you, butyou're not their customer.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
You're not their customer.
No, I'm not, you're not.
But don't even let dogs in butthere'll be plenty of people
listening who like aweatherspoons yeah, I'm sure
there is but it's becausethey're cheap, cheerful, they
can go for a night out and notspend too much money.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh my goodness when I say beer, I mean proper beer,
not like sort of lager-y stuffthat josh drinks ah, but you
want to attract the right typeof client so you've, got to know
that and price towards thatmarket as well.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Because, like, yeah, so as well, you want to protect
your time.
Yes, time you want.
You're running a business, andyou're running a business for a
reason.
A lot of people run their ownbusiness because they want to
either really jump two feet intothe industry that they're going
into, they're really passionateabout it, they want more time
(10:45):
with their family and for theirwork to be more flexible and
they want to make money.
That they're like.
Your main, your main reasonsbut yeah, one we see all of the
time is the flexibility andwanting more time to spend with
your family, and so you've gotto protect that.
If you don't know your valueand you're burnt out, you're not
(11:08):
going to get that time.
In fact, you're going to workway harder than you would if you
were employed and probably makeless.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So you have to really think about it yeah, and you've
got to get your value right, um, and write down what you want
to do.
You know I like to create alittle bit of time for myself.
I'm not going to mentionplaying golf, but you know I do
like.
I do like to make a bit of timethere and there's a reason for
doing that.
So get the value right andhopefully it allows me to do it
(11:38):
and obviously make you do allthe work, obviously.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
So the common signs you're undervaluing yourself
because you might not be.
You might be absolutely finerunning your business at exactly
where you need to be, but thesigns that you're undervaluing
yourself could be that you'reundervaluing yourself could be
that you're discounting yourprices too quickly so you might
get a customer come in and assoon as they have any sort of
wobble on the price or just look, just have a little look on
(12:07):
their face you might go oh, I'llgive you 50 off.
That automatically shows thatyou don't even think it's worth
the price you're charging well,absolutely, but there's a great
book out there.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Never split the difference yeah that is
brilliant about a sort of CIAagent and never splitting the
difference.
And that's about you know sortof hostages and you sort of say
to the you know the, the personholding the hostages, that's
okay, you can kill three of them, but leave seven out.
You know you're not gonna.
You're not gonna agree to that,are you?
You can kill three of them, butleave seven out.
You're not going to agree tothat, are you?
(12:37):
So you're never going to splitthe difference and you work that
back to your pricing.
It's a really, really good book.
I can't remember who it's by.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
I can't remember it's definitely called Split the
Difference and he's also been onDiary of a CEO on that podcast
and that's really good.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Obviously not as good as this podcast obviously not
nowhere near as many listeners.
Stephen Bartlett a few things,I'm sure maybe we'll invite him
on maybe get him as a guest.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Maybe you'll have us as a guest, michelle Obama,
jaden Paldono.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
I think that's definitely on the cards.
It really is.
But, um, but yeah, so yeah,don't, don't give discounts.
Um, quickly get your valueright and your proposition right
and what you're doing right aswell.
And I think you know when weget this from the team as well,
don't we?
When we say, well, why didn'tyou charge for that share
(13:34):
restructure?
Oh, it didn't take me long.
Well, it did, because you spentmany years learning it.
You know you've got yourqualifications, you've got your
continual professionaldevelopment, of which you know
most of us do 30, 40, 50 hours ayear extra to learn these
things.
So it may be that it might nothave taken you so long if you
(14:00):
actually sort of, you know thesoftware's doing it, etc.
But we've invested in all thatwe've invested in that knowledge
to be able to do that and to doit right.
So there is a value to that.
Not just you know, going backto you know friends or mending
things on the way back.
There's a value to it and onlythat person could do it and do
(14:20):
it right.
But it's their knowledge thatyou're doing it for.
So you've got to get that valueright and you've got to be
appreciated for it.
And sometimes we do things forpeople that they don't really
understand what we're doingBecause we are accountants.
Most people don't.
It's dark out yeah.
So we now say to our team justgive them a proposal, even if
(14:42):
we're not charging, justoutlining what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, just so they know.
Yeah, and that was my next signthat you're undervaluing
yourself.
And this is something we do allthe time, which is the
over-delivering or giving toomuch away for free.
Yeah, it's, it is somethingthat I think.
When you do something in, dayin, day out, you think stuff's
(15:05):
easy, but actually it does havea value.
Like you said, people need yourhelp and your expertise and it
does have a value.
Um, so you just need to reallythink of what you're doing next
time, and I am all I do thinkyou should try and provide as
much value for your clients andcustomers as you can, but you've
(15:28):
got to think is this at thedetriment of of the business?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
yeah, I mean, I go back to my sort of painter
decorating.
You know you sort of look atand we we've done it to people.
You know you sort of likethey've come to paint your, your
, your lounge or something andthen your door needs rehanging
so you go, can you just hang thedoor?
yeah, you know and off they goand they trundle along and they
do it and they've not given youa bill.
(15:54):
And you think that's a bitweird.
Why don't you give me a bill?
Because if you've ever seen metrying to hang a door, you know,
even if I've taken the hingesoff to take something through a
doorway, I still can't put it upstraight.
So I think people are preparedto pay.
It's just you've obviouslyundervalued what you're capable
of doing, you know, and and thatgoes for so many small
(16:15):
businesses- yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I mean we had it the other day and I mean it was
great.
So I'm gonna mention it, um,because it was.
It was great for me and josh,so we went to I didn't tell you
this, um, it was josh's 30thbirthday and we went to london
and we went 30th yeah, didn'ttell me yeah, 30.
Wow, he's old, so old nextdecade um, but me and josh went
to london.
We went on the train, we wentfrom whittlesford parkway and
(16:40):
they've now the pub that's rightby that station literally right
by it has now got a little sortof coffee bit where you can get
a coffee to go for your train,which is really good, because if
anybody has been towhittlesford parkway, there is
normally nothing there.
You can't get coffee, you can'tget a cake or anything, so we
went in um, so did you havecoffee and cake?
(17:00):
no, let me tell my story, geez.
So we went in and, um, I askedfor my coffee and Josh said oh,
I'd like a cake please.
And the lady said oh, I'mreally sorry, I can't serve
these because we've had a bit ofa um ant problem and they were
out and she's like I can't servethem.
They're literally just there tolook pretty at the moment.
(17:22):
I need to throw them away.
And Josh said oh, that's fine,I have a packet of crisps.
Then and she said oh, I tellyou what, because she wanted the
cake, you can have the crispson me.
And I was like, oh, that'sreally nice.
But then she took it one stepfurther.
When she gave me my coffee, shesaid no, you can have that as
well.
Nice, which was really nice.
I mean great customer service.
Now I'm saying it on thispodcast.
(17:43):
I think it's the red lion nextto the train station.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
You've probably got her sacked.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
No, I hope not.
But I'm giving you publicity.
Don't sack the lady.
She.
I'm giving you publicity.
Don't sack the lady.
She was so nice, but I mean she, we didn't care about not
having the cake, but she gave usthose two things for free and
she really didn't need to,because we were more than
prepared to pay for it.
And I understood the crisps,because I thought, well, if Josh
(18:11):
couldn't have what he wanted,and it was his birthday.
And it was his birthday.
That's a nice thing to do, butthe coffee as well.
I was like, oh, it's one steptoo far, but I was happy
regardless.
But still I sound reallyungrateful.
I'm not ungrateful From abusiness perspective.
She didn't need to do it.
No, because we'd have been justas happy with the free Chris.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
And she was very friendly and chatty and wished
Josh a happy birthday.
So customer service was there,yeah, and I think you've got to
communicate what your value is.
You know how many people havewe said to you know, we charge x
for a tax return and they goit's only a p60 and a dividend
voucher and you go.
Well, no, actually it's also awhole list of stuff that we are
going through to make sure thattax returns right yeah and you
go, like you know things likeyour student loan.
(19:01):
Oh, I didn't think about studentloan.
No, of course you didn't,because you don't do it, you
know.
But we did start once upon atime doing a sort of like a mot
style checklist.
Didn't we giving that toclients?
Speaker 1 (19:13):
we stopped doing that we should.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
We should bring that back, because people don't
understand what we actually dowhat checklist are you referring
to?
The one that we don't doanymore are we sure about that?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
do we do it now?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
well, do we give it to the clients as well?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
well, when they, when their tax return is due, we
send them a checklist.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Oh, yeah, but no, this is a checklist of what
we've done.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Oh, I see.
I'm like well, I've definitelymade a checklist, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Have we checked their home addresses right?
Have we got this?
Have we done that?
Is it the same as the AML?
These are things that peopledon't do.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
No, and we do make sure everything is right.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So it's not just us valuing what we do, it's making
sure that the client or thecustomer is aware that what
we've done, like the hanging ofthe door you know, if they put a
new hinge on because the otherhinge was a bit rusty or a bit
WD-40 or something you knowthese are things they would
think about to make that doorfit properly.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's more signs as well thatyou're undervaluing yourself.
I've only got through two.
Another one is doubting whetheryou deserve to charge more sort
of having a bit of impostersyndrome, thinking, oh, but I
don't know whether I'm the best,so I don't know whether I can
charge that.
Like you need to look atyourself and and see whether you
(20:34):
can charge more.
Like you should value yourselfas much as your service
Absolutely.
And another thing is as well isif you're constantly comparing
yourself to competitors.
We had a client who did this.
All the time they were likewell, we can't charge that
because they're charging thisand they're giving away all of
(20:55):
this for free.
But when we actually looked up,their competitor weren't making
any money yeah so we were likewell, like you can copy your
competitor but you won't have abusiness, so you need, if you're
gonna, you should look at yourcompetition.
That is important, but youshouldn't base all of your
(21:15):
pricing off of your competitionand do what fits you.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
You know, we, we collect all our fees by direct
debit.
Yeah, you know.
And how many people have weseen in service industries that
go, oh, we can't do it like that, that.
You know, the industry won'tlet us, our customers won't let
do direct debit.
No, you know, we'd rather wait90 days and and then have to
change them, and I, when we goback and go, well, actually our
industry was the same, but itsuited us to go by direct debit
(21:43):
and not one client Well, itactually is one client, because
he probably hasn't even got acomputer and he writes a check.
It's just one client.
But you know, everyone pays bydirect debit.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Without exception.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
They do, and that's something we've decided on and
we've stuck to.
We've been consistent and thatis very important.
And then I think another thing,with another sign that you're
undervaluing yourself is ifyou're annoyed at your clients
because they're asking, orcustomers because they're asking
for too much and you knowthey're not paying for it, that
(22:21):
is a common sign you'reundervaluing what you're doing.
Yeah, so if you're, if any ofthose common signs stick out to
you, you probably need to lookat your pricing, look at your
service and see, see what needsto change, because otherwise
you're gonna, as a businessowner, you're gonna burn out.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
That's the absolutely that's, and you're not gonna be
able to grow no.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So my next pointer is how?
How do you figure out your truevalue?
How do you actually figure thatout?
So I think we've touched on afew things.
I think you've got to know whatyou want, who you're, who
you're targeting um.
You've got to look at all ofthose things first and foremost.
(23:05):
Do you want more time?
Do you want more profits?
Do you want um more customers?
Do you want to target um highnet worth people?
Do you want to target themasses?
What?
What do you want?
Um?
And once you figure that out,you'll figure out how to value
what you're doing.
(23:26):
Um.
Another thing you can do is lookat give yourself a confidence
boost, look at your testimonialsand look at your reviews.
If you haven't got any ask forsome, just send a little survey
out to all your customers.
See where you're at, see whatthey're feeling as well, because
you can't grow your businesswithout any feedback on what
(23:48):
you're doing.
I think business owners getscared of getting feedback in
case it's negative, but, quitefrankly, if you get negative
feedback, you can improve.
If you just don't ask forfeedback, you can't act on
anything.
You're just merrily rollingalong.
So get that and you'll findthat most of the people who
(24:08):
write your reviews will give youreal positivity and that will
give you a real boost to knowyour value, to people.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
I mean, there's been some reviews, isn't there where
people have come back and you'rethinking, oh no, what are they
going to say about us?
And actually they've beenreally complimentary and you're
like, oh okay, that's great.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, that's good fun .
It's always really good andit's especially good for us.
And I love when they highlightso many big sighs when they
highlight a team member.
I love it when they do thatbecause sometimes Especially
with me.
Oh no, sometimes like say, likeCharlotte, for instance, I might
(24:46):
not see what she's doing sortof day to day, but then if we
get a client and say, oh yeah,charlotte's amazing, that really
then boosts that you know we'redoing a good job, not just like
the whole team is doing a goodjob.
It's really nice, and it'sreally nice then to share it
throughout the team as well.
So another thing to figure outyour true value is to really
(25:14):
look at the problem that yourbusiness solves.
It depends on what yourbusiness is and what that is
worth to find that solution forpeople absolutely um, yeah, do
you have any tips to figure outyour true value?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Tips to figure out your.
Yeah, I think you're right.
You know, just do what's bestfor your business.
Yes, take a note of theindustry that you're in, but
only take a note of it.
You know what works for youmight not work for someone else.
And then when you actuallydrill down on it and you know,
don't always believe what goeson social media and don't always
believe what goes on socialmedia.
(25:55):
There's a lot of oh yeah, we'regreat and we've done this and
we've just worked for Microsoftor something like that but
they've probably made the tea.
When you actually go in there,not everything that you see in
the public domain is correct.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
That was on the.
Apprentice that I watched inthe interviews they said oh,
you've worked with all of theseamazing brands, but what they'd
actually done was sent mock-upsto all the brands.
They're not worked with them.
They just sent the mock-ups, um, and then put it all over their
website well, there you go.
So, yeah, don't believeeverything you see on social
(26:30):
media from your competitors.
No, not at all and in terms ofcommunicating your value, I
think the biggest tip we cangive is to be confident and
really believe it yourself.
Like, if you don't, I'm quotingRuPaul here for all of you drag
(26:53):
listeners, drag race listenersdad is not one.
He's looking at me so confused.
But if you don't love yourself,how the hell are you gonna love
somebody else?
Speaker 2 (27:01):
oh, that's why I've never had any problems yeah, so
you had no problems.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
But in this case, if you don't value yourself and
your service, how on earth doyou expect your customers to do
the same thing?
Absolutely um, so you just needto be confident with your price
.
Don't hesitate, because thenpeople know that you also don't
think it should be that much orthat little.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
It could be either way, really yeah, um, I mean,
we've seen people price stuffthat is actually less than what
it costs them.
Yeah, you know, we've seenpeople sell stuff that you go.
Why have you sold it for that?
Because it's cost you this.
Yeah, oh, didn't realise.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
And that's where knowing your numbers is really
important.
Yeah, and if you don't knowwhat you're making per like if
you're manufacturing something,if you don't know what you're
making per item, that's aproblem For us in the
(28:02):
service-based industry if wedon't know what we're making per
sort of staff member.
That is a problem, yeah, um, soknowing your numbers is really
important as well.
Um, and a bit of a marketingtip on this, like, if you know
you're providing great value,show it.
Show it all over your socials,show it to your clients.
This is what I can do, or mybusiness can do, my team can do.
Shout about it from therooftops.
(28:26):
And the next thing and youfound this really really hard
and you're better at it now sayno to the clients that don't fit
, or customers that don't fit.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
I might have said yes to a couple that I shouldn't
have done over the years.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So many.
So much better now, yeah, butas a business owner, you want
all the work to come in, andthat is I.
I completely understand that.
Like you want that revenue.
But quite frankly, like we justsaid, if you're getting a
customer in, if it's not acommunity-based thing or a
charitable thing, and you've gotthem in and you're not making
(29:04):
any money on it and they're nothappy because they're also not
the right fit for you, no onewins in this situation.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
It's it's a lose-lose no, it does take a few years to
understand that, though it doesyeah.
Saying no actually can be oneof the most profitable decisions
you make yeah, and it makes fora happier client base because
yeah, as soon as you, and teamyeah yeah absolutely, because if
you get the wrong fit, it justupsets everyone.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, so that's something to think about.
I do know that that is hard.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
It is hard.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
It's really hard to do, but you've just got to think
about it.
My next and last point on thisis just changing your mindset.
Everybody gets a bit ofimposter syndrome.
Apart from dad, um, everyonegets it.
It affects, I think, prettylike you know, 99.9 of the
(30:03):
population where you doubtyourself and your business and
your service and what you canprovide.
You need to really try andeliminate that from your psyche
and try and be confident in whatyou're delivering.
And I know, like for mum, shestruggles with this, with her
wellness coaching she'll andshe'd be the first to say it
(30:25):
that she wants to knoweverything before she can, you
know, close the sale.
She's done so many courses, somuch reading, um, she's so
knowledgeable and yet she stillhas imposter syndrome talking to
people.
But she knows far more aboutwellness and sort of the
nutrition side of things as wellthan anybody I know, yeah, and
(30:47):
yet she still gets that.
So you need to just reallythink about what you know
compared to others and, yeah,consider your own personal value
as well and that'll really helpabsolutely so I think, do you
have any just like quick tipsyou want to finish on?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
quick tips?
No, not really.
Just, you know, be confident.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Know your value.
What you might think is simpleisn't simple for other people.
Yeah, and I think what's it?
We got the most tax returnclients, didn't we?
One year?
Because in January, everysingle day, I did a tip on how
to fill in your tax return,every day.
And we got more clients becausewe showed the value that we
(31:36):
give in those tips and peoplethat thought they could do it
themselves picked up on that.
Actually, oh, that's a bitstrange, I didn't even think of
that.
And then we got more work.
Yeah, and that was um aninteresting one really, so yeah
and also I forgot to mentionthis.
Oh, another one.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Just perceived value.
Look at how you see things inthe marketplace.
So my example to Dad earlierwas wine.
If you see a £2 bottle of wineon the shelf, you're going to go
.
That's going to be rank, that'sgoing to be horrendous.
I'm not buying that.
If you see like a £30, bottle.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
You don't buy it anyway, it's me.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Oh yeah, drink your wine.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I know.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
But if you see a £30 bottle on the shelf, you're
going to think you go Dad, youbuy that.
Regardless of who is buying thewine, the £30 bottle you're
automatically going to thinkthat that is better than the £2
bottle of wine, just because ofthe perceived value, just
(32:40):
because they are charging more.
Now it could be that those,both of those wine bottles, both
of the contents of the wine isthe same it took the same amount
of preparation that it could bethat that two pound bottle of
wine is very, very good for itsprice, but you're not going to
buy it.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
No, I would.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
But she wouldn't buy the more expensive wine.
Because she wouldn't value it.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
No.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
But my thought thing is thought thing.
Whatever I'm trying to think ofis that you perceive value by
how much you charge.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
And that then as well will dictate, who buys your
product absolutely.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
But in the case of the wine also, if the wine
producer says this is how we doit, you know, this comes from
the same grape, the samevineyard, etc.
You're always two pound.
One comes from all the dregs,from everything else.
If you kind of give that valueand show it, then the customer
will know, appreciate why thereis a difference.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yes, they will, but equally, you could say the same
for clothes as well.
So, like, if you go to I don'tknow Primark, it's going to be
cheap, cheerful, you know whatyou're getting, that's it.
But if you go to Gucci, it'sgoing to be more, but those two
(33:57):
t-shirts are not going to be allthat dissimilar.
But people still buy Guccibecause of the brand and they
value that brand.
So they'll pay, like what?
£200 more for that t-shirt andit will be different material
and it will be nicer and youknow you have the label whatever
(34:18):
.
But either way, a t-shirt's at-shirt and the perceived value
is all.
On the price, yes, that'slaughing.
I don't know why he's laughing.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I was just laughing at me.
Primani socks.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
I've got me Primani socks on Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
I think we're done with finding your value.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I'm valued out.
I think we valued that out.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
We valued that out.
So now we're on to ourunfiltered minute.
So mine is.
Glastonbury was on on at theweekend and on Saturday.
I really wanted to watch Rayand I had to message mum and dad
and I said, oh, can we watchRay the Glastonbury set?
And it was like, yeah, yeah,let's do that, that'd be nice.
(35:09):
Anyway, get there, it's alllovely.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
He was good.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Oh she.
Oh yeah, Dad didn't enjoy it,which is where my story is sort
of going.
So race starts.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Did you enjoy my barbecue though?
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yeah, the barbecue was lovely.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Did you enjoy my wine ?
Oh, you're so annoying so onelittle tiny bit you're going to
pick me up on.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yes, I am.
So Ray starts Me and Mum arewatching the telly.
We're watching it, we'reenjoying it.
It's lovely.
Dad's like oh, I'll put theprojector on.
Bearing in mind I'd been therefor about three hours beforehand
, there's plenty of time to setup the projector.
He's like I'll put theprojector on, it only just got
dark.
It wasn't even really dark, buthe was like I'm going to put the
(35:55):
projector on.
So I'm like, okay, anyway, thiswasn't an easy job.
The projector wasn't set up.
He had to get all the leads out, walk in front of me and mum
constantly with the wires he'sclanging about, he's talking to
us about putting the projectoron and then, when he puts the
projector on, finally, about 15minutes later, the sound doesn't
(36:15):
match.
But at this point, it didimprove right.
We were so infuriated by himthat we just watched the set
with the sound not matching theprojector, and then he didn't
even enjoy it.
He just told me the whole timehow much he wasn't enjoying it.
So Ray's set was very good, butthat's my rant.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
So ungrateful it wasn't ungrateful.
It was.
It wasn't really I made you anold-fashioned that made it up
for it.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
You did.
Yeah, the old-fashioned waslovely, the barbecue was lovely,
but we just could havepre-planned.
We could have been proactive,dad, yes, you, we could have
pre-planned.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
We could have been proactive dad.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yes, you could have been.
I wasn't fussed about theprojector, I was quite happy
with the telly did the projectorwork well?
It did work well.
It was very nice.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I've got a new lead now.
Oh, that's good, put it in mybox to never be found again.
I probably had actuallythinking about that.
I probably had a lead andyou've thrown it away because it
was in my lead box.
Now I've had to buy a new leadoff Amazon.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Well, it was needed, wasn't it?
What's your unfiltered minuteDad.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Mine's a bit of a rant.
It is golf related and I knowyou said I'm not allowed to
speak about golf, but I'm alittle bit like this is a bit
annoying.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Business with the Donners, where we talk about
family business and golf.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, so anyway, I am getting a new set of irons for
my birthday, so I know wementioned that on a previous
podcast.
Now mum does know about it.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (37:44):
And it's fine, everything's good.
Wasn't a great deal ofresistance there, so maybe I
should put some woods in thereas well.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
That's another story.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
So, anyway, I've now put down, thanks to Ollie, who's
done a brilliant job innarrowing down two sets of clubs
.
I want to choose between twosets of clubs Ping Eye 230s and
Ping Eye 530s.
You're glazing over at thispoint.
I am yeah, it's about asinteresting as Ray.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
You're glazing over at this point I am.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, it's about as interesting as Ray, and so I
want to try these out.
Okay, so on his phone ping upand said I've got someone here
wants to try these clubs out.
Not sure how it's going to fiton a 5 iron, are we only letting
them test on 7 irons?
But I want to test it on adifferent iron because I'm not
(38:33):
sure whether or not I need 5.30sor 2.30s and the 5 iron is
harder to hit than a 7 iron is,and I know I want to go for
2.30s but I'm not sure that thecommitment financially needs to
be there and the 5.30s is what Iactually got to have.
But Ping seemed really, reallyinflexible on this.
So that means me travelling allthe way to the other side of
Lincoln to go to their fittingcentre, which I was prepared to
(38:56):
do, but I don't think I can trythe clubs I want.
So now we're having to go andscrap round see if there's any
members in the club that havegot the irons.
I want to try and ask themnicely, buy them a cup of coffee
if I can borrow their clubs,because the manufacturer doesn't
(39:16):
want me to try a club that Iwant to try to then buy from
them.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I mean, that makes no sense, makes no sense Of which.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
I then turned around and said to Ollie well, I'll
just buy Tylea's thing, becausethey're only up the roads and.
I'll just go there.
And he said that's daft,because you know you hit these
clubs better.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
So I'm actually Don't cut off your nose to spite your
face.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah, and I have done that a couple of times before.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Have you, don't do that but.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I don't really understand why a pig might Don't
get it, it's not going to harmthe club, is it?
Speaker 2 (39:44):
So I'm waiting for Riley to find me.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, okay, fair enough, that was a half-decent
golf story, apart from all ofthe ip37s I don't know what you
said.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
It's an ip57, but I'm not i-59, I think.
But I'm not going for thatbecause it's more, you know,
it's a more bladey, oh okay.
So yeah, I'm glad you broughtthat one up, okay, I watched the
story on that youtube on thatyoutube.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, ah, good, good to hear.
Okay, I think that's everythingfor this week.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yep, this is our last week before our voyage.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
It is.
Before we hit the seas Beforewe hit the seas on our family
holiday, which is going to bethe topic of our next podcast.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Well done.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
So tune in next week for that.
So thank you for listening toBusiness With the Donos.
Please hit, follow, subscribe,like, like and we will see you
next week.
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