June 2, 2025 • 27 mins
Codependency doesn't just affect romantic relationships—it can appear in our friendships too, creating anxiety, over-functioning, and emotional entanglement that feels just as intense without the relationship label. Emotional intimacy is emotional intimacy, regardless of whether it's with a friend or partner, and our attachment patterns don't discriminate.
• Friendships lack the clear definitions and expectations that romantic relationships have—there's no "define the relationship" talk or breakup script
• Unspoken friendship rules create confusion, especially for those with codependent tendencies who overfunction to maintain connections
• Friendship grief is just as valid as romantic heartbreak, though society rarely acknowledges it in the same way
• Jealousy and fear can emerge when friends develop new relationships or life changes, triggering abandonment wounds
• Notice which friendships feel genuinely safe versus which ones just feel familiar due to shared history
I am so excited to share my codependency recovery workbook with you. Click on the link to be brough to Enough As I Am on Amazon.
🦋 Enough As I Am: Recovery workbook. On Amazon
Email: codependentdoctor@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you've ever cried over a friendship but felt silly
about it, or if you've everwondered why you felt like a
breakup just happened, eventhough you were just friends.
Or if you found yourselftexting a meme at 2am just to
make sure that someone stilllikes you.
Yeah, you're not crazy, but youmight be codependent, and
today's episode is going to befor you.
Today, we're diving into theemotional messiness of
(00:20):
friendships, where the love isreal, the rules are fuzzy and
the grief can hit just as hardas a breakup.
You're going to hear whycodependency doesn't need a
romantic label to show up what'sactually behind that panic when
a friend gets distant and howto stop over functioning just to
keep the peace.
So grab yourself a coffee andget a comfortable snack of your
choice and stay tuned.
(00:42):
This episode's got some gemsthat you didn't know you needed.
Welcome to the CodependentDoctor, a weekly podcast
focusing on all thingscodependency.
Are you struggling to loveyourself, feeling burnt out or
having trouble forming lovingand meaningful relationships?
I can help you heal from thepast and move forward with
healthier selves, healthierrelationships and healthier,
(01:03):
more fulfilling lives.
Join me as we reclaim yourauthentic self.
I'm your host, a family doctorand fellow codependent, dr
Angela Downey, we can do thistogether.
Here we go.
Hello to all my wonderfulpodcast listeners.
I'm your host, dr Angela Downey, a family doctor and fellow
codependent who thinks thatfriendship should come with a
(01:25):
define the relationship chat andmaybe a friendship anniversary
cake.
Today's episode we're going tobe focusing on the impact of
codependency on friendships.
But before I get started on theepisode, I want to take a
minute to focus on what we'reall grateful for.
You've probably heard it ahundred times just be grateful,
and if you're anything like me,you've probably rolled your eyes
(01:45):
at least once.
But here's the thing Gratitudeisn't just some cheesy self-help
trend.
It's actually one of thesimplest ways that you can shift
your mindset without needing tooverhaul your entire life.
When we pause and think aboutwhat we're grateful for, even
the small stuff, like a good cupof coffee or a friend who texts
back really quickly, it helpsour brain focus on what's
(02:07):
working instead of what'smissing or what's broken.
It doesn't mean that we ignorethe hard stuff, but it's going
to give us a little bit morebalance.
Like, yeah, today was stressful, but also my coffee didn't
betray me and my pants hadpockets and no one called me
before 9am.
It helps put things intoperspective.
So, no, it's not going to fixall of your problems, but it
might make you feel a little bitbetter or a little bit lighter.
(02:29):
So today I am grateful for theway that my dog, piper, looks at
me first thing in the morningwhen we're all snuggled up in
bed.
She has so much love and trustand we seem to be able to
communicate just by being silenttogether.
And I want to give a shout outto my daughter, mia, who is
grateful for her positive groupof friends.
I agree that this is a greatthing that everyone should have,
(02:51):
and it's very related to ourepisode today.
I'm also giving a shout out toJen, who wrote that she's
grateful for the first fire pitnight with her family, with food
and music.
She said it's a little chillyout there, but the fire is warm
and the setting sun is beautiful.
And, as a bonus, she sent me avideo of the fire which I got to
stare at while sitting in mylittle studio corner in the
(03:13):
basement next to my space heater.
She messaged me on threads,which is where I've been more
active lately, and I'd love foryou to share what you're
grateful for.
It doesn't have to be anythingbig, and I'm always inspired by
the little things in life thatbring us joy.
You can find me on threads atdrangeladowney and on Facebook
at the Codependent Doctor.
(03:33):
I chose today's topic because Igot a great message from Leland,
who is a listener, and he'sasking for some insight.
It says I've been activelyworking on my codependency and
anxiety.
I've been reading books,listening to podcasts and
working through codependencyworkbooks and journaling, but
I've noticed that most of thecontent tends to focus on
romantic relationships.
While I understand thatcodependency can show up in many
(03:56):
forms, I rarely see discussionsaround codependency in close
friendships, which can often bejust as intimate, if not more so
.
I'm gay and my best friend isstraight.
We had a falling out last year,but after a lot of honest
communication and effort wereconnected and our bond feels
stronger than ever now.
Recently he started datingsomeone new and I'm genuinely
(04:17):
happy for him.
He deserves happiness and loveand I want nothing more than for
him to be happy.
But ever since the falling out,I find myself in this constant
state of anxiety, afraid that itmight happen again, even though
we've both expressed how muchwe care about each other and
value our friendship, I find ithard to trust that it's secure.
I know that's not fair to himor to me and I'm trying to
(04:40):
understand what part of mycodependency this fear comes
from.
I haven't been able to findmany resources that specifically
address this kind of deepfriendship dynamic.
Is there a difference when itcomes to codependency in
friendship versus romanticrelationships, and why is it
hard for me to trust and believein the connection, even when
he's showing up and beingconsistent?
I know I've placed a lot ofemotional weight on him as my
(05:03):
primary support and I'm workingon shifting that, but it's hard.
I just feel a bit lostsometimes.
Thank you for all the insightthat you've already shared on
your podcast, warmly Leland.
Today I'm wanting to focus onhow codependency can show up in
friendship and romanticrelationships, sometimes in
similar ways and sometimes invery different ones.
When we think about codependentbehaviors, we usually picture
(05:25):
them in romantic relationships,where there's over-functioning
and people-pleasing and peopleare chasing emotionally
unavailable partners, textingback with carefully worded
messages after three hours ofspiraling.
But here's the thingcodependency doesn't care if
you're dating someone or not.
If there's an emotionalcloseness or vulnerability and
attachment, those patterns ofcodependency, they can show up
(05:48):
anywhere, and some of thedeepest, most complicated
relationships that we havearen't romantic at all.
They're friendships.
And when friendships are deep,when they become your safe space
or your support system or yourhome base, the emotional weight
of them is real, which alsomeans that the triggers are
going to be real too.
Leland's letter hit me becauseit shows something that we don't
(06:11):
talk about enough Friendshipscan be just as emotionally
intimate and just as emotionallyfragile as romantic
relationships, but we don't givethem the same language, we
don't always give them the samepermission to matter that much.
There's no rule book for whatto do when your closest friend
starts pulling away.
There's no breakup talk,there's no title to call the
(06:31):
grief.
But that pain, it's still real.
And that fear, it's very real.
Those codependent patterns,they're alive and very well that
friendships and romanticrelationships are the same and
how they're different and howcodependency can sneak into both
(06:53):
.
When you're not looking,because if we only focus on
dating or marriage, we're goingto miss the full picture of how
our attachment wounds and oldpatterns are going to play out.
Sometimes the most loyal andemotionally intense
relationships that you haveisn't with a partner, it's just
with your best friend.
So today we're going to explorethat a little.
We're going to talk aboutemotional intimacy, the unspoken
rules of friendship, jealousyand grief boundaries, and how
(07:15):
both types of relationships canbe a part of your healing or
your burnout, depending on howyou show up.
So I'm going to start rightwhere it matters the most the
emotional intimacy.
Because whether it's your bestfriend or your partner emotional
closeness it hits the same partof your nervous system and if
you've been through emotionalneglect or inconsistency or
abandonment, it's going to stirthings up.
(07:37):
Either way, closeness iscloseness and vulnerability is
vulnerability.
And when someone matters to you, when they see the messy parts
of your life, when you rely onthem for comfort and support,
that's emotional intimacy.
And emotional intimacy can bejust as intense in friendship as
it is in romantic relationships.
But culturally we don't treat itthe same way.
(07:58):
We act like friendship issomehow maybe a little less than
like it shouldn't hurt as muchwhen it ends.
Or it's weird to feel anxiousor heartbroken if a friend is
pulling away.
But codependency it can't makethat distinction.
If you've ever felt anxiouswhen a friend didn't text you
back or felt like you needed tostay super agreeable to keep the
peace, or maybe you wereconstantly there for them but
(08:20):
didn't know how to ask for thesame thing in return.
That's codependency, my friend,and it has nothing to do with
romance.
Sometimes we even fall into thesame over-functioning kind of
role in a friendship that we'dfall into in a romantic
relationship we might be thefixer, the listener, the steady
one, the I've got you person,even when we're the ones who are
falling apart.
(08:41):
Why?
Because many of us learn thatlove in any form meant being
needed and needing someone else.
That felt unsafe.
It's a little too vulnerablefor us, too risky, and when you
think about it, friendshipsdon't come with the same
built-in permissions to talkabout your needs.
We don't have friendshipanniversaries.
We don't officially define therelationships.
(09:03):
One day you might be sharing abag of chips, then the next day
you're the other person'semergency contact.
It just happens without anykind of official friendship
titles.
There's no cultural roadmap thatsays here's how to navigate a
deep emotional friendship that'striggering old attachment
wounds.
So when a friendship starts tofeel emotionally intense, when
it brings up fear or jealousy ora sense of over-responsibility,
(09:26):
we don't always have thelanguage for it and we don't
know how to talk about itwithout feeling a little weird,
but here's the truth If yourfriendship is where you feel
seen, soothed and emotionallyheld, it's just as real, just as
valid and just as vulnerable asa romantic bond.
And if that relationship startsto wobble a little bit, or even
(09:48):
if nothing is really wrong butyour anxiety tells you that
something is, it's not sillythat it hurts.
Your emotional nervous systemdoesn't need romance to get
activated, it just needs someonewho matters.
So if you've noticedcodependent patterns showing up
in your friendships the peoplepleasing, the caretaking, the
anxiety when things shift alittle, it's not because you're
(10:09):
doing something wrong, it'sbecause intimacy is intimacy.
And the patterns that youlearned growing up, the ones
that told you that you had toearn love or had to be easy or
stay useful, they don't care ifthere's a kiss involved or not.
And this brings me to the nextpart of our conversation, and
it's a big one, because I wantto talk to you about the
unspoken rules of friendship.
(10:31):
Because, unlike romanticrelationships, friendships
rarely come with clarity.
There's no hey, are we?
Exclusive talk, there's nobreakup conversation, no clear
roadmap for how your friendshipis supposed to progress.
And, honestly, romanticrelationships don't come with
perfect roadmaps either, but atleast there's usually some kind
of script.
(10:52):
With friendships we'reliterally just winging it.
The script for a romanticrelationship might look like
first we meet, then we have thetalk.
We might assign labels likeboyfriend, partner, spouse.
There might be a wedding,valentine's Day, anniversaries,
and sure these scripts might bereally outdated and full of all
(11:12):
sorts of pressure, but at leastit exists.
And friendships they don't.
There's no.
Are we friends?
Talk, are we just acquaintances, friends, good friends, best
friends?
There's no clearly definedexpectations, no breakup script
if it ends and no roadmap forhow deep or intimate the
connection is supposed to getand how fast.
(11:32):
Things happen a little bit moreorganically.
One minute you're making smalltalk about the weather and then
all of a sudden you're talkingabout your childhood wounds.
They know your coffee order andyour ex's worst personality
traits, and no one ever said outloud when that shift happened.
It just did Now.
Don't get me wrong.
I love that.
Friendship can grow naturallywithout pressure.
(11:53):
But when it comes to emotionalsafety, that lack of structure
can cause a lot of confusion,especially if you're someone who
struggles with codependency,because here's what often
happens.
You build this deep connectionwith someone, you open up up,
you show up, you become thefriend who always remembers the
important dates.
You check in, you listen at 2am and you send encouraging
(12:16):
memes when they're having a badday.
But over time you're going tostart to notice that maybe
you're giving more than whatyou're getting or you're afraid
to set boundaries because you'reworried that they're going to
pull away.
Maybe you're anxious when theystart spending more time with
someone new and you startwondering are we still close?
But you're scared to ask thesethings.
And that's the emotional fogthat comes with unspoken
(12:38):
friendship.
Rules Codependence and I wantyou to know that I'm very much
included in this.
We often over-function infriendships as a way to keep
connections.
We don't want to seem like aburden, we don't want to make
anyone uncomfortable, so insteadwe become the supportive one or
the easy one or the one who isalways fine.
And when the other personstarts drifting, even if it's
(13:01):
just because life got busy,we're going to feel that deep
into our core and we panic butwe don't say anything because it
feels too much to bring it up.
And again, no one has a scriptfor this.
There's no.
Hey, I noticed that we haven'ttalked much lately, are we okay?
Script for friendship, at leastnot one that most of us grew up
with.
So instead we tend tointernalize it.
(13:23):
We assume that we're beingreplaced, we tell ourselves that
we shouldn't care this much.
We start gaslighting our ownfeelings.
But I want to pause here for aminute because of course you
care when a friendship holdsdeep emotional weight, when it's
your goal to support, whenyou've invested time, energy and
trust.
Why wouldn't you care when itstarts to shift?
(13:44):
The real problem isn't thatyou're feeling too much, it's
that the rules they were neverclear to begin with.
How often should we check inwith each other?
Should it be daily texts,weekly calls?
Can you have a couple months ofsilence and still be good?
What kind of support do weoffer each other?
Are we venting buddies,emotional first responders or
(14:05):
just for fun friends?
How available are we?
Is it okay to reach out late atnight?
Can I expect a reply today,tomorrow or ever?
How do we handle conflict ordistance?
Do we talk about it?
Do we just let it fade orpretend nothing happened?
What happens when one of usgets into a new relationship or
a new job or moves outside thecountry?
Do we adjust the dynamic?
(14:26):
Do we talk about it?
Do we feel our feelings butnever name them?
You don't need to have a formalsit down like let's define our
friendship, but it's totallyokay and even healthy to ask
them things like when you'rehaving a rough time, do you
usually want someone to check inor do you just want space?
Or hey, I've missed ourcatch-ups lately.
Do you want to make a plan toreconnect more regularly?
(14:47):
Is everything okay between us?
Sometimes I overthink stuff andI'd rather just ask.
It might feel a little bitawkward at first, but in real
friendships that kind of honestycan make everything stronger.
And when emotional boundariesare blurry and expectations are
unspoken, it's really easy tooverextend yourself trying to
maintain closeness.
So what can help?
(15:08):
Well, I'm going to be honestthere's no easy fix here, but
something that does help isstarting to bring some of those
unspoken dynamics into the light, noticing when you're
over-functioning, askingyourself what you're afraid
might happen if you letfriendship be a little bit more
balanced, and maybe, when itfeels safe enough, actually
having the conversation thatyou've been avoiding.
It might sound like hey, I loveour friendship and I've noticed
(15:31):
I've been feeling a little offlately.
Can we check in?
It's scary to ask for thesethings.
But it's also honest, andsometimes honesty is the best
boundary, because if we want ourrelationship to feel safe, we
need to make the invisible rulesvisible.
But what happens when thoseinvisible rules collide with
something even messier, likejealousy, fear or grief?
(15:53):
Because here's what no onetells you about growing up.
Friendship can break your hearttoo, and the grief that comes
with a friendship shift, whetherit's slow or sudden, it can be
really intense emotionally, butwe don't always know what to do
with it and it's hard to watchour friends drift.
And a lot of times it's notbecause something dramatic
(16:13):
happens.
Sometimes it's because lifejust moves on.
Maybe there's a new job, a newpartner, maybe they've got a
family now, or they're in a newseason of their lives where
you're not their go-to personanymore.
Life just moves on and maybeyou weren't invited to move on
with it.
Now, when these things happen ina romantic relationship, the
world takes it seriously.
(16:33):
They feel bad for you becauseyour partner's left.
People are going to check inwith you more often.
You're allowed to cry, vent,eat ice cream straight out of
the tub.
There's this clear storyline webroke up, but when a friendship
changes, you get hit with allthe same emotions sadness,
confusion, jealousy.
And yet people act like it's nobig deal, like oh well, you
(16:57):
guys just drifted apart, that'slife, or well?
They're dating someone new.
Of course they're going to bebusier, yes, and also it hurts.
It's still going to hurt, butyou might not get the same
reactions from people, which isreally hard.
You don't have that permissionto grieve.
And when your friend is datingsomeone new, that's tough,
(17:19):
because in a romanticrelationship you are their
person, but in a friendship youoften have to make room for a
new person and suddenly you'renot their main person anymore.
You're no longer the entree butthe side dish.
And that shift can feel like aquiet little heartbreak.
And here's what happens forcodependence.
We tend to blame ourselves forthe shift.
(17:40):
We think was I not fun enough?
Did I ask for too much?
Should I have been more chill?
We assume that our needs drovethem away and that inner
narrative of I'm easy to leaveor people don't like being with
me it comes roaring back.
But friendships, they can shiftfor so many reasons that have
(18:01):
nothing to do with you.
Sometimes people just get busy.
They fall in love, they havebabies, switch jobs, move across
the country or just emotionallycheck out without meaning to,
and that's still going to hurt.
But it's not always personal.
So it's really important thatyou know this.
Just because it's not aromantic relationship doesn't
mean that your grief is invalid.
(18:22):
And just because the friendshipdidn't end doesn't mean that
there's nothing to process.
Sometimes it's not aboutclosure, it's about honoring
what the friendship was andacknowledging how much it meant
to you.
And that might look likeletting yourself feel the loss,
journaling what the friendshipgave you and what it didn't,
saying goodbye in your own way,even if it's not dramatic, and
(18:45):
reminding yourself that youstill deserve connection, you
still deserve care, becausefriends can drift, but the love,
the laughter, the support youshared, that was real and if
you're grieving the shift,that's because it mattered.
I want to talk about how bothfriendships and romantic
relationships can be part of ourhealing, when we stop chasing,
(19:07):
stop over-functioning and startshowing up for ourselves with
the same care that we give toothers.
One of the most healing thingsin the world is a friendship
where you can show up messy,tired, honest and still be met
with care.
And yet we don't talk aboutthat enough.
We tend to place romanticrelationships at the top of the
emotional intimacy pyramid, likethat's the real goal and
(19:30):
everything else is justbackground support.
But deep, emotionally honestfriendships can be just as
healing, sometimes even more,than romantic ones.
And why?
Because in friendship there'soften more space to evolve
without the pressure of romance.
You can just show up withouthaving to perform a role.
You can have conflict and comeback from it.
You can practice boundaries,communication and trust without
(19:54):
the high stakes.
Are we going to break up overthis energy hanging over your
head?
And when you're healing fromcodependency, this kind of
connection is gold, becausefriendship gives us space to
learn that we're allowed to haveneeds, that healthy people can
handle our truth, that lovedoesn't have to mean constant
proximity or emotionalenmeshment.
But here's where it gets trickyfor codependence.
(20:16):
When one person becomes youreverything, it's easy to start
over-relying on that friendship,in the same way that you might
over-rely on a partner.
That's why having multiplesources of support is so
important, not to replace yourclose friends, but to distribute
the emotional load.
Maybe that's therapy, maybeit's a group chat that sends
each other dog memes andaffirmations.
(20:37):
Maybe it's a sibling or amentor or a friend that you only
see once a month but alwaysfeel safe around.
The point is, no one person issupposed to meet all of your
needs, not even your best friend, and when we stop expecting one
person to hold all of ouremotional weight, it gives
everybody more room to breathe.
So if you're wondering, okay,but how do I actually build
(20:58):
friendships that feelemotionally safe and honest?
I'm going to give you a fewsmall but powerful things that
can help.
So these are my practical tipsfor building healthy friendships
.
One practice micro-honesty.
You don't have to trauma dumpor write a manifesto.
Just start with something small.
Hey, I've had a rough day, Idon't need fixing, I just need a
(21:19):
little presence.
Or I might be quieter today,but I still want to hang out.
Two check in on the connection,not just the content.
It's easy to get stuck insurface talk.
Try something like hey, how areyou really doing lately?
Or I've missed our deeper chats.
Can we catch up properly soon?
Three give what you want toreceive, but not only what you
(21:41):
want to receive.
This means being present andcaring, yes, but also being open
to receiving care.
Let yourself be supported andlet someone else go first for
once.
Four notice who feels safeversus who feels familiar.
Some friendships are built onshared history, not shared
values.
It's okay to outgrow dynamicsthat no longer feel mutual or
(22:04):
nourishing.
Five celebrate the friends whoget it.
You know the ones, the peoplewho respect your nose and who
don't guilt you for needingspace or who cheer you for your
healing.
Lean into those people.
They're rare and they're gold.
You want to have those peoplearound you.
So, whether it's a romanticrelationship or a friendship,
(22:26):
what really matters is theemotional quality of the
connection.
Does it feel mutual?
Do you feel seen, safe andrespected, and can you show up
honestly?
If yes, then I suggest that younurture that.
So here's what I'm hoping thatyou're going to take away from
today.
It's not about the label.
It's not about whether someoneis your partner, your best
(22:48):
friend, your person, yourneighbor who accidentally became
your therapist.
It's about the emotionalpatterns.
It's about how you show up,what you give, what you're
afraid to ask for, and whetheror not the relationship,
whatever kind it is, actuallyfeels safe.
Because codependency doesn'tjust live in romance.
It lives wherever connectionmatters, and sometimes the most
(23:11):
overlooked dynamics, likefriendship.
They can carry the deepestemotional weight.
So I want you to remember thatyou're allowed to care deeply
about your friendships.
You're allowed to grieve whenthey shift.
You're allowed to ask forclarity, set boundaries and want
reciprocity, even if there's noofficial title involved,
because healing doesn't onlyhappen in therapy rooms and
(23:34):
partnered relationships.
It happens in the voice notes,in the long walks or in the I've
got you texts at the end of ahard day.
It happens when you're met withkindness, not conditions, and
that, my friend, is what youdeserve, as always.
If this episode stirredsomething in you, I'd love to
hear your thoughts.
You can message me on threadsor instagram at drangela downey,
(23:57):
or find me on Facebook at theCodependent Doctor.
You can also email me atcodependentdoctor at gmailcom,
and if you haven't yet, pleasereview and share this with a
friend or follow, so you don'tmiss any future episodes.
I wish you all a great week asyou learn to foster a better
relationship with the mostimportant person in your life
yourself.
I'm going to meet you here nextweek for another episode of the
(24:19):
Codependent Doctor, when I'mgoing to continue to explore
Leland's letter and talk aboutrebuilding trust after conflict.
Take care, for now You've gotthis.
Thank you for joining me, and Ihope today's podcast resonated
with you.
Click, like and subscribe soyou don't miss any future
(24:39):
episodes and to help others whomight benefit.
This podcast is not meant toprovide medical advice and
should not replace seeing yourdoctor for mental health
concerns.
If you're having a mentalhealth crisis, please present to
a hospital, call 911 or yourlocal crisis helpline.
I'll talk to you next week foranother episode of the
Codependent Doctor.
We can do this together.
If you've ever cried over a friendship but felt silly
about it, or if you've everwondered why you felt like a
breakup just happened, eventhough you were just friends.
Or if you found yourselftexting a meme at 2am just to
make sure that someone stilllikes you.
Yeah, you're not crazy, but youmight be codependent, and
today's episode is going to befor you.
Today, we're diving into theemotional messiness of
(00:20):
friendships, where the love isreal, the rules are fuzzy and
the grief can hit just as hardas a breakup.
You're going to hear whycodependency doesn't need a
romantic label to show up what'sactually behind that panic when
a friend gets distant and howto stop over functioning just to
keep the peace.
So grab yourself a coffee andget a comfortable snack of your
choice and stay tuned.
(00:42):
This episode's got some gemsthat you didn't know you needed.
Welcome to the CodependentDoctor, a weekly podcast
focusing on all thingscodependency.
Are you struggling to loveyourself, feeling burnt out or
having trouble forming lovingand meaningful relationships?
I can help you heal from thepast and move forward with
healthier selves, healthierrelationships and healthier,
(01:03):
more fulfilling lives.
Join me as we reclaim yourauthentic self.
I'm your host, a family doctorand fellow codependent, dr
Angela Downey, we can do thistogether.
Here we go.
Hello to all my wonderfulpodcast listeners.
I'm your host, dr Angela Downey, a family doctor and fellow
codependent who thinks thatfriendship should come with a
(01:25):
define the relationship chat andmaybe a friendship anniversary
cake.
Today's episode we're going tobe focusing on the impact of
codependency on friendships.
But before I get started on theepisode, I want to take a
minute to focus on what we'reall grateful for.
You've probably heard it ahundred times just be grateful,
and if you're anything like me,you've probably rolled your eyes
(01:45):
at least once.
But here's the thing Gratitudeisn't just some cheesy self-help
trend.
It's actually one of thesimplest ways that you can shift
your mindset without needing tooverhaul your entire life.
When we pause and think aboutwhat we're grateful for, even
the small stuff, like a good cupof coffee or a friend who texts
back really quickly, it helpsour brain focus on what's
(02:07):
working instead of what'smissing or what's broken.
It doesn't mean that we ignorethe hard stuff, but it's going
to give us a little bit morebalance.
Like, yeah, today was stressful, but also my coffee didn't
betray me and my pants hadpockets and no one called me
before 9am.
It helps put things intoperspective.
So, no, it's not going to fixall of your problems, but it
might make you feel a little bitbetter or a little bit lighter.
(02:29):
So today I am grateful for theway that my dog, piper, looks at
me first thing in the morningwhen we're all snuggled up in
bed.
She has so much love and trustand we seem to be able to
communicate just by being silenttogether.
And I want to give a shout outto my daughter, mia, who is
grateful for her positive groupof friends.
I agree that this is a greatthing that everyone should have,
(02:51):
and it's very related to ourepisode today.
I'm also giving a shout out toJen, who wrote that she's
grateful for the first fire pitnight with her family, with food
and music.
She said it's a little chillyout there, but the fire is warm
and the setting sun is beautiful.
And, as a bonus, she sent me avideo of the fire which I got to
stare at while sitting in mylittle studio corner in the
(03:13):
basement next to my space heater.
She messaged me on threads,which is where I've been more
active lately, and I'd love foryou to share what you're
grateful for.
It doesn't have to be anythingbig, and I'm always inspired by
the little things in life thatbring us joy.
You can find me on threads atdrangeladowney and on Facebook
at the Codependent Doctor.
(03:33):
I chose today's topic because Igot a great message from Leland,
who is a listener, and he'sasking for some insight.
It says I've been activelyworking on my codependency and
anxiety.
I've been reading books,listening to podcasts and
working through codependencyworkbooks and journaling, but
I've noticed that most of thecontent tends to focus on
romantic relationships.
While I understand thatcodependency can show up in many
(03:56):
forms, I rarely see discussionsaround codependency in close
friendships, which can often bejust as intimate, if not more so
.
I'm gay and my best friend isstraight.
We had a falling out last year,but after a lot of honest
communication and effort wereconnected and our bond feels
stronger than ever now.
Recently he started datingsomeone new and I'm genuinely
(04:17):
happy for him.
He deserves happiness and loveand I want nothing more than for
him to be happy.
But ever since the falling out,I find myself in this constant
state of anxiety, afraid that itmight happen again, even though
we've both expressed how muchwe care about each other and
value our friendship, I find ithard to trust that it's secure.
I know that's not fair to himor to me and I'm trying to
(04:40):
understand what part of mycodependency this fear comes
from.
I haven't been able to findmany resources that specifically
address this kind of deepfriendship dynamic.
Is there a difference when itcomes to codependency in
friendship versus romanticrelationships, and why is it
hard for me to trust and believein the connection, even when
he's showing up and beingconsistent?
I know I've placed a lot ofemotional weight on him as my
(05:03):
primary support and I'm workingon shifting that, but it's hard.
I just feel a bit lostsometimes.
Thank you for all the insightthat you've already shared on
your podcast, warmly Leland.
Today I'm wanting to focus onhow codependency can show up in
friendship and romanticrelationships, sometimes in
similar ways and sometimes invery different ones.
When we think about codependentbehaviors, we usually picture
(05:25):
them in romantic relationships,where there's over-functioning
and people-pleasing and peopleare chasing emotionally
unavailable partners, textingback with carefully worded
messages after three hours ofspiraling.
But here's the thingcodependency doesn't care if
you're dating someone or not.
If there's an emotionalcloseness or vulnerability and
attachment, those patterns ofcodependency, they can show up
(05:48):
anywhere, and some of thedeepest, most complicated
relationships that we havearen't romantic at all.
They're friendships.
And when friendships are deep,when they become your safe space
or your support system or yourhome base, the emotional weight
of them is real, which alsomeans that the triggers are
going to be real too.
Leland's letter hit me becauseit shows something that we don't
(06:11):
talk about enough Friendshipscan be just as emotionally
intimate and just as emotionallyfragile as romantic
relationships, but we don't givethem the same language, we
don't always give them the samepermission to matter that much.
There's no rule book for whatto do when your closest friend
starts pulling away.
There's no breakup talk,there's no title to call the
(06:31):
grief.
But that pain, it's still real.
And that fear, it's very real.
Those codependent patterns,they're alive and very well that
friendships and romanticrelationships are the same and
how they're different and howcodependency can sneak into both
(06:53):
.
When you're not looking,because if we only focus on
dating or marriage, we're goingto miss the full picture of how
our attachment wounds and oldpatterns are going to play out.
Sometimes the most loyal andemotionally intense
relationships that you haveisn't with a partner, it's just
with your best friend.
So today we're going to explorethat a little.
We're going to talk aboutemotional intimacy, the unspoken
rules of friendship, jealousyand grief boundaries, and how
(07:15):
both types of relationships canbe a part of your healing or
your burnout, depending on howyou show up.
So I'm going to start rightwhere it matters the most the
emotional intimacy.
Because whether it's your bestfriend or your partner emotional
closeness it hits the same partof your nervous system and if
you've been through emotionalneglect or inconsistency or
abandonment, it's going to stirthings up.
(07:37):
Either way, closeness iscloseness and vulnerability is
vulnerability.
And when someone matters to you, when they see the messy parts
of your life, when you rely onthem for comfort and support,
that's emotional intimacy.
And emotional intimacy can bejust as intense in friendship as
it is in romantic relationships.
But culturally we don't treat itthe same way.
(07:58):
We act like friendship issomehow maybe a little less than
like it shouldn't hurt as muchwhen it ends.
Or it's weird to feel anxiousor heartbroken if a friend is
pulling away.
But codependency it can't makethat distinction.
If you've ever felt anxiouswhen a friend didn't text you
back or felt like you needed tostay super agreeable to keep the
peace, or maybe you wereconstantly there for them but
(08:20):
didn't know how to ask for thesame thing in return.
That's codependency, my friend,and it has nothing to do with
romance.
Sometimes we even fall into thesame over-functioning kind of
role in a friendship that we'dfall into in a romantic
relationship we might be thefixer, the listener, the steady
one, the I've got you person,even when we're the ones who are
falling apart.
(08:41):
Why?
Because many of us learn thatlove in any form meant being
needed and needing someone else.
That felt unsafe.
It's a little too vulnerablefor us, too risky, and when you
think about it, friendshipsdon't come with the same
built-in permissions to talkabout your needs.
We don't have friendshipanniversaries.
We don't officially define therelationships.
(09:03):
One day you might be sharing abag of chips, then the next day
you're the other person'semergency contact.
It just happens without anykind of official friendship
titles.
There's no cultural roadmap thatsays here's how to navigate a
deep emotional friendship that'striggering old attachment
wounds.
So when a friendship starts tofeel emotionally intense, when
it brings up fear or jealousy ora sense of over-responsibility,
(09:26):
we don't always have thelanguage for it and we don't
know how to talk about itwithout feeling a little weird,
but here's the truth If yourfriendship is where you feel
seen, soothed and emotionallyheld, it's just as real, just as
valid and just as vulnerable asa romantic bond.
And if that relationship startsto wobble a little bit, or even
(09:48):
if nothing is really wrong butyour anxiety tells you that
something is, it's not sillythat it hurts.
Your emotional nervous systemdoesn't need romance to get
activated, it just needs someonewho matters.
So if you've noticedcodependent patterns showing up
in your friendships the peoplepleasing, the caretaking, the
anxiety when things shift alittle, it's not because you're
(10:09):
doing something wrong, it'sbecause intimacy is intimacy.
And the patterns that youlearned growing up, the ones
that told you that you had toearn love or had to be easy or
stay useful, they don't care ifthere's a kiss involved or not.
And this brings me to the nextpart of our conversation, and
it's a big one, because I wantto talk to you about the
unspoken rules of friendship.
(10:31):
Because, unlike romanticrelationships, friendships
rarely come with clarity.
There's no hey, are we?
Exclusive talk, there's nobreakup conversation, no clear
roadmap for how your friendshipis supposed to progress.
And, honestly, romanticrelationships don't come with
perfect roadmaps either, but atleast there's usually some kind
of script.
(10:52):
With friendships we'reliterally just winging it.
The script for a romanticrelationship might look like
first we meet, then we have thetalk.
We might assign labels likeboyfriend, partner, spouse.
There might be a wedding,valentine's Day, anniversaries,
and sure these scripts might bereally outdated and full of all
(11:12):
sorts of pressure, but at leastit exists.
And friendships they don't.
There's no.
Are we friends?
Talk, are we just acquaintances, friends, good friends, best
friends?
There's no clearly definedexpectations, no breakup script
if it ends and no roadmap forhow deep or intimate the
connection is supposed to getand how fast.
(11:32):
Things happen a little bit moreorganically.
One minute you're making smalltalk about the weather and then
all of a sudden you're talkingabout your childhood wounds.
They know your coffee order andyour ex's worst personality
traits, and no one ever said outloud when that shift happened.
It just did Now.
Don't get me wrong.
I love that.
Friendship can grow naturallywithout pressure.
(11:53):
But when it comes to emotionalsafety, that lack of structure
can cause a lot of confusion,especially if you're someone who
struggles with codependency,because here's what often
happens.
You build this deep connectionwith someone, you open up up,
you show up, you become thefriend who always remembers the
important dates.
You check in, you listen at 2am and you send encouraging
(12:16):
memes when they're having a badday.
But over time you're going tostart to notice that maybe
you're giving more than whatyou're getting or you're afraid
to set boundaries because you'reworried that they're going to
pull away.
Maybe you're anxious when theystart spending more time with
someone new and you startwondering are we still close?
But you're scared to ask thesethings.
And that's the emotional fogthat comes with unspoken
(12:38):
friendship.
Rules Codependence and I wantyou to know that I'm very much
included in this.
We often over-function infriendships as a way to keep
connections.
We don't want to seem like aburden, we don't want to make
anyone uncomfortable, so insteadwe become the supportive one or
the easy one or the one who isalways fine.
And when the other personstarts drifting, even if it's
(13:01):
just because life got busy,we're going to feel that deep
into our core and we panic butwe don't say anything because it
feels too much to bring it up.
And again, no one has a scriptfor this.
There's no.
Hey, I noticed that we haven'ttalked much lately, are we okay?
Script for friendship, at leastnot one that most of us grew up
with.
So instead we tend tointernalize it.
(13:23):
We assume that we're beingreplaced, we tell ourselves that
we shouldn't care this much.
We start gaslighting our ownfeelings.
But I want to pause here for aminute because of course you
care when a friendship holdsdeep emotional weight, when it's
your goal to support, whenyou've invested time, energy and
trust.
Why wouldn't you care when itstarts to shift?
(13:44):
The real problem isn't thatyou're feeling too much, it's
that the rules they were neverclear to begin with.
How often should we check inwith each other?
Should it be daily texts,weekly calls?
Can you have a couple months ofsilence and still be good?
What kind of support do weoffer each other?
Are we venting buddies,emotional first responders or
(14:05):
just for fun friends?
How available are we?
Is it okay to reach out late atnight?
Can I expect a reply today,tomorrow or ever?
How do we handle conflict ordistance?
Do we talk about it?
Do we just let it fade orpretend nothing happened?
What happens when one of usgets into a new relationship or
a new job or moves outside thecountry?
Do we adjust the dynamic?
(14:26):
Do we talk about it?
Do we feel our feelings butnever name them?
You don't need to have a formalsit down like let's define our
friendship, but it's totallyokay and even healthy to ask
them things like when you'rehaving a rough time, do you
usually want someone to check inor do you just want space?
Or hey, I've missed ourcatch-ups lately.
Do you want to make a plan toreconnect more regularly?
(14:47):
Is everything okay between us?
Sometimes I overthink stuff andI'd rather just ask.
It might feel a little bitawkward at first, but in real
friendships that kind of honestycan make everything stronger.
And when emotional boundariesare blurry and expectations are
unspoken, it's really easy tooverextend yourself trying to
maintain closeness.
So what can help?
(15:08):
Well, I'm going to be honestthere's no easy fix here, but
something that does help isstarting to bring some of those
unspoken dynamics into the light, noticing when you're
over-functioning, askingyourself what you're afraid
might happen if you letfriendship be a little bit more
balanced, and maybe, when itfeels safe enough, actually
having the conversation thatyou've been avoiding.
It might sound like hey, I loveour friendship and I've noticed
(15:31):
I've been feeling a little offlately.
Can we check in?
It's scary to ask for thesethings.
But it's also honest, andsometimes honesty is the best
boundary, because if we want ourrelationship to feel safe, we
need to make the invisible rulesvisible.
But what happens when thoseinvisible rules collide with
something even messier, likejealousy, fear or grief?
(15:53):
Because here's what no onetells you about growing up.
Friendship can break your hearttoo, and the grief that comes
with a friendship shift, whetherit's slow or sudden, it can be
really intense emotionally, butwe don't always know what to do
with it and it's hard to watchour friends drift.
And a lot of times it's notbecause something dramatic
(16:13):
happens.
Sometimes it's because lifejust moves on.
Maybe there's a new job, a newpartner, maybe they've got a
family now, or they're in a newseason of their lives where
you're not their go-to personanymore.
Life just moves on and maybeyou weren't invited to move on
with it.
Now, when these things happen ina romantic relationship, the
world takes it seriously.
(16:33):
They feel bad for you becauseyour partner's left.
People are going to check inwith you more often.
You're allowed to cry, vent,eat ice cream straight out of
the tub.
There's this clear storyline webroke up, but when a friendship
changes, you get hit with allthe same emotions sadness,
confusion, jealousy.
And yet people act like it's nobig deal, like oh well, you
(16:57):
guys just drifted apart, that'slife, or well?
They're dating someone new.
Of course they're going to bebusier, yes, and also it hurts.
It's still going to hurt, butyou might not get the same
reactions from people, which isreally hard.
You don't have that permissionto grieve.
And when your friend is datingsomeone new, that's tough,
(17:19):
because in a romanticrelationship you are their
person, but in a friendship youoften have to make room for a
new person and suddenly you'renot their main person anymore.
You're no longer the entree butthe side dish.
And that shift can feel like aquiet little heartbreak.
And here's what happens forcodependence.
We tend to blame ourselves forthe shift.
(17:40):
We think was I not fun enough?
Did I ask for too much?
Should I have been more chill?
We assume that our needs drovethem away and that inner
narrative of I'm easy to leaveor people don't like being with
me it comes roaring back.
But friendships, they can shiftfor so many reasons that have
(18:01):
nothing to do with you.
Sometimes people just get busy.
They fall in love, they havebabies, switch jobs, move across
the country or just emotionallycheck out without meaning to,
and that's still going to hurt.
But it's not always personal.
So it's really important thatyou know this.
Just because it's not aromantic relationship doesn't
mean that your grief is invalid.
(18:22):
And just because the friendshipdidn't end doesn't mean that
there's nothing to process.
Sometimes it's not aboutclosure, it's about honoring
what the friendship was andacknowledging how much it meant
to you.
And that might look likeletting yourself feel the loss,
journaling what the friendshipgave you and what it didn't,
saying goodbye in your own way,even if it's not dramatic, and
(18:45):
reminding yourself that youstill deserve connection, you
still deserve care, becausefriends can drift, but the love,
the laughter, the support youshared, that was real and if
you're grieving the shift,that's because it mattered.
I want to talk about how bothfriendships and romantic
relationships can be part of ourhealing, when we stop chasing,
(19:07):
stop over-functioning and startshowing up for ourselves with
the same care that we give toothers.
One of the most healing thingsin the world is a friendship
where you can show up messy,tired, honest and still be met
with care.
And yet we don't talk aboutthat enough.
We tend to place romanticrelationships at the top of the
emotional intimacy pyramid, likethat's the real goal and
(19:30):
everything else is justbackground support.
But deep, emotionally honestfriendships can be just as
healing, sometimes even more,than romantic ones.
And why?
Because in friendship there'soften more space to evolve
without the pressure of romance.
You can just show up withouthaving to perform a role.
You can have conflict and comeback from it.
You can practice boundaries,communication and trust without
(19:54):
the high stakes.
Are we going to break up overthis energy hanging over your
head?
And when you're healing fromcodependency, this kind of
connection is gold, becausefriendship gives us space to
learn that we're allowed to haveneeds, that healthy people can
handle our truth, that lovedoesn't have to mean constant
proximity or emotionalenmeshment.
But here's where it gets trickyfor codependence.
(20:16):
When one person becomes youreverything, it's easy to start
over-relying on that friendship,in the same way that you might
over-rely on a partner.
That's why having multiplesources of support is so
important, not to replace yourclose friends, but to distribute
the emotional load.
Maybe that's therapy, maybeit's a group chat that sends
each other dog memes andaffirmations.
(20:37):
Maybe it's a sibling or amentor or a friend that you only
see once a month but alwaysfeel safe around.
The point is, no one person issupposed to meet all of your
needs, not even your best friend, and when we stop expecting one
person to hold all of ouremotional weight, it gives
everybody more room to breathe.
So if you're wondering, okay,but how do I actually build
(20:58):
friendships that feelemotionally safe and honest?
I'm going to give you a fewsmall but powerful things that
can help.
So these are my practical tipsfor building healthy friendships
.
One practice micro-honesty.
You don't have to trauma dumpor write a manifesto.
Just start with something small.
Hey, I've had a rough day, Idon't need fixing, I just need a
(21:19):
little presence.
Or I might be quieter today,but I still want to hang out.
Two check in on the connection,not just the content.
It's easy to get stuck insurface talk.
Try something like hey, how areyou really doing lately?
Or I've missed our deeper chats.
Can we catch up properly soon?
Three give what you want toreceive, but not only what you
(21:41):
want to receive.
This means being present andcaring, yes, but also being open
to receiving care.
Let yourself be supported andlet someone else go first for
once.
Four notice who feels safeversus who feels familiar.
Some friendships are built onshared history, not shared
values.
It's okay to outgrow dynamicsthat no longer feel mutual or
(22:04):
nourishing.
Five celebrate the friends whoget it.
You know the ones, the peoplewho respect your nose and who
don't guilt you for needingspace or who cheer you for your
healing.
Lean into those people.
They're rare and they're gold.
You want to have those peoplearound you.
So, whether it's a romanticrelationship or a friendship,
(22:26):
what really matters is theemotional quality of the
connection.
Does it feel mutual?
Do you feel seen, safe andrespected, and can you show up
honestly?
If yes, then I suggest that younurture that.
So here's what I'm hoping thatyou're going to take away from
today.
It's not about the label.
It's not about whether someoneis your partner, your best
(22:48):
friend, your person, yourneighbor who accidentally became
your therapist.
It's about the emotionalpatterns.
It's about how you show up,what you give, what you're
afraid to ask for, and whetheror not the relationship,
whatever kind it is, actuallyfeels safe.
Because codependency doesn'tjust live in romance.
It lives wherever connectionmatters, and sometimes the most
(23:11):
overlooked dynamics, likefriendship.
They can carry the deepestemotional weight.
So I want you to remember thatyou're allowed to care deeply
about your friendships.
You're allowed to grieve whenthey shift.
You're allowed to ask forclarity, set boundaries and want
reciprocity, even if there's noofficial title involved,
because healing doesn't onlyhappen in therapy rooms and
(23:34):
partnered relationships.
It happens in the voice notes,in the long walks or in the I've
got you texts at the end of ahard day.
It happens when you're met withkindness, not conditions, and
that, my friend, is what youdeserve, as always.
If this episode stirredsomething in you, I'd love to
hear your thoughts.
You can message me on threadsor instagram at drangela downey,
(23:57):
or find me on Facebook at theCodependent Doctor.
You can also email me atcodependentdoctor at gmailcom,
and if you haven't yet, pleasereview and share this with a
friend or follow, so you don'tmiss any future episodes.
I wish you all a great week asyou learn to foster a better
relationship with the mostimportant person in your life
yourself.
I'm going to meet you here nextweek for another episode of the
(24:19):
Codependent Doctor, when I'mgoing to continue to explore
Leland's letter and talk aboutrebuilding trust after conflict.
Take care, for now You've gotthis.
Thank you for joining me, and Ihope today's podcast resonated
with you.
Click, like and subscribe soyou don't miss any future
(24:39):
episodes and to help others whomight benefit.
This podcast is not meant toprovide medical advice and
should not replace seeing yourdoctor for mental health
concerns.
If you're having a mentalhealth crisis, please present to
a hospital, call 911 or yourlocal crisis helpline.
I'll talk to you next week foranother episode of the
Codependent Doctor.
We can do this together.
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