September 1, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode, I sit down with psychotherapist and mindful life coach Elizabeth Mintun, host of The Calming Ground podcast. We talk about navigating life transitions — from leaving toxic relationships to moving through grief and midlife shifts — and how to embrace the discomfort of change as part of growth. Elizabeth also shares practical tools for holding space for yourself.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today's conversation with Elizabeth Minton is such a
good one.
We're diving into what itreally feels like to be in that
messy in-between stage of lifewhen you've left something
behind but you're not quitewhere you want to be yet.
We're going to talk about whygrowth isn't linear, the brain
science behind why change feelsso uncomfortable, and how to
actually hold space for yourselfwith more compassion during
(00:22):
these transitions.
Elizabeth also shares her ownstory and some simple, practical
tools that you can start usingright away.
So grab a coffee, take a seat.
You do not want to miss thisone.
Welcome to the CodependentDoctor, a podcast where we
unpack the messy, beautifuljourney of healing from
codependency.
If you're burned out frompeople pleasing, stuck in
(00:42):
unhealthy patterns or just tiredof putting yourself last,
you're in the right place.
I'm Dr Angela Downey, a familydoctor and fellow codependent,
and I'm here to help youreconnect to your authentic self
.
One honest conversation at atime.
Here we go.
Hello to all my wonderfulpodcast listeners and welcome to
the 56th episode of theCodependent Doctor.
(01:05):
Listeners, and welcome to the56th episode of the Codependent
Doctor.
I'm your host, dr Angela Downey, a family doctor and fellow
codependent, who's here to helpus untangle our patterns, heal
our hearts and reclaim our peace.
For today's episode, we have aguest with us.
Her name is Elizabeth Minton.
She's a psychotherapist,mindful life coach, facilitator
of an embodied mindfulness,self-care membership for women,
and creator and host of theCalming Ground podcast.
(01:27):
So hello, elizabeth, I'm soglad to have you join us today.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I am so happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, and I'm glad you're able to make it.
I've been really lookingforward to this conversation
because the way that you talkabout transitions and growth and
that uncomfortable in-betweenspace, it's so real and so
needed to be talked about, and Iknow my listeners are going to
get a lot out of all of yourwisdom and your story, and I
want to thank you so much forjoining me today.
One of my favorite traditionson the show is that we discuss
(01:57):
what we're grateful for, becausewhen we stop to think about
what we're grateful for, ithelps our brains focus on what's
working instead of what'smissing or broken.
So I'd like to ask you is thereanything that you're especially
grateful for today?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You know, the seasons are changing ever so slightly
and we have been so hot and it'sbeen yesterday and today have
been cool and beautiful.
It's like the beginning of theintro into the fall, and I love
the fall, it's my favoriteseason.
So I am just feeling somegratitude for the shifting of
the seasons.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, fall is by far my favorite season as well.
I don't understand it whensomeone looks at me like I'm
crazy for saying that, but yeah,I love the cool weather.
There's fewer bugs and justhearing the crunching leaves
under my feet is great.
Whereabouts are you from?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Columbus, ohio, to Midwest Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Midwest.
Okay, and you do?
You get snow out there.
This might be a silly question.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
No, that's okay.
Yeah, we do.
We don't get the lake like upnorth in Ohio you get the lake
effect.
We don't have that.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But we get plenty of snow, but you do have distinct
seasons.
Oh yeah, okay, amazing, yeah,for myself.
I just got back from vacationand I'm grateful that I was able
to get away and I brought mycomputer with me, and I've
always done work while I was onvacation, but this time I just
left my computer and my luggageand it was great.
(03:25):
So I'm actually grateful forthe first time to have been able
to unplug completely from work,and that's unheard of for me,
so really glad that I was ableto do that.
So that's kind of what I'mgrateful for today.
That's awesome.
It's good to just let it all go.
So, elizabeth, why don't westart by having you share a
(03:45):
little bit about yourself andwhat led you to the work that
you're doing as apsychotherapist, a mindful life
coach and hosting the podcast,the Calming Ground?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, so I'm a psychotherapist yes, that was
kind of how I started in mycareer.
I'm a psychotherapist yes, thatwas kind of how I started in my
career.
Before that I had a windingjourney.
I actually come from a familyof therapists.
So when I was younger I said Iwasn't going to do that.
I was like, no, I'm going to dosomething else.
(04:17):
And so I went and I got amaster's in peace studies in
England actually I'm in WestYorkshire and loved that but
ended up coming back to theUnited States and doing some
work in Washington DC withsurvivors of torture and human
trafficking and there weretherapists that worked for that
organization and I watched andwitnessed some of like what they
(04:40):
because we worked in teams andwhat they were talking about and
the work that they were doingand I thought I think that's
actually I think that's more methan the work that I'm doing
right now and just the kind ofclinical piece, the real getting
into the human to human contactkind of thing, rather than the
macro.
So I went back to school, gotanother master's degree and then
(05:05):
started practicingpsychotherapy and I was doing
that for a long time just in aprivate practice and then
ultimately recognized that therewas something that was missing
for me in my world and also withthe clients that I was seeing,
and so that had to do with,maybe, the in-between sessions,
the sort of coming back to themoment, work and that piece.
(05:29):
And so from there I did a lotof other training learned about
forest bathing, learned aboutqigong, which is a form of
moving meditation, learned aboutsitting meditation, and then
when I felt I felt transformedby this, and that's when I
created the Calming Ground,which is the mindful life
coaching.
The podcast came from that.
(05:49):
The Calming Ground podcast allcame from my recognition that
there is this whole other part.
Yes, it's self-discovery is soimportant, it's so important and
self-awareness and the work,the deep work of therapy has its
place and it's very, veryuseful.
And that moment to momentcoming back to our bodies, in
(06:10):
this moment, our breath, what'saround us, is so simple and
life-changing.
And so that's how I ended updoing the work I do today.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Amazing.
I went to a mindfulness retreatand forest bathing was part of
it and my partner tried toconvince me that this was done
in the nude and I was likeyou're crazy, like no, we're not
going to go marching throughthe forest in the nude.
But a little part of me was alittle bit nervous.
But I loved it and no, itwasn't done in the nude.
But it really helps to likecenter yourself and just
(06:45):
gathering that energy from thetrees, and is that your
experience as well?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
It is transformative, yes, and I think that what's
also so powerful about it is theparadigm of in forest bathing,
and I can understand the bathingpart is a little confusing,
right, but the element of itwhere you are in relationship,
so it's using a paradigm ofrelationship, we're in
relationship with the trees,we're in relationship with the
(07:11):
sky and that sense of, I think,moving through and allowing
ourselves to ground, becausethere's a lot of meditative
qualities to forest bathing.
And then there's the biological,the NK fighter cells that are
transmitted through the air fromthe trees, that are helped with
immunity, all of those thingstoo.
But then I think that thelonging that can come with
(07:32):
forest bathing, that sense of nomatter what, we're not alone,
because the sky is always thereand we can reach the sky or the
ground, whatever is around usfor resource.
So it could be with the trees,but it also could be with a rock
, with the grass, withwhatever's around.
It's so powerful.
So, yes, I find it, I find itamazing.
(07:53):
And then there's so manystories I could go into about
that.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, for sure, me too, I'm thinking of a couple,
but we'll kind of maybe if wehave time for it later.
But yeah for sure, forestbathing is amazing.
I love being amongst the trees,so I'm glad you brought that up
.
So your work really centersaround guiding people through
these big life transitions andleaving toxic relationships,
navigating midlife, settingboundaries and moving through
(08:17):
grief.
Why do you think these momentsof transition are such turning
points in people's lives?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah.
So I think anytime there is ashift in identity and I'll give
an example I did a few years agoI started running groups for
specifically they were designedfor women who were navigating
separation and or likepost-divorce with children, with
(08:46):
an ex-narcissist right, so kindof navigating how do we be
aligned with who we are in a waythat we understand and
recognize ourselves to be, butalso we're in this kind of
in-between situation, and sosometimes it's big life
transitions.
Like a separation, that kind oflike brings up our sense of who
am I, what does this mean aboutme?
(09:08):
It could bring up shame Interms of grief.
It's in and any kind of loss,any kind of perceived loss, even
if that loss is ultimately inthe case of like, sometimes,
divorce, the loss can be freeingright.
The loss can be something thatwe actually are feeling kind of,
maybe some growth or progresswith.
(09:31):
And even in those cases, in anyof these situations, whether
it's something that we feel like, oh my goodness, I needed to
leave and I did, or we feel like, oh my goodness, I'm in this
life transition, I'm in midlife,I lost somebody I love, I, you
know, whatever the case may be,there is still an element of
(09:54):
grief, because who we were isnow undeniably shifting right,
our role and, in the case ofthat group, that I that I
started with answering thisquestion, you know it's how am I
?
How do I both forgive myself,you know, for being in this
situation, because a lot oftimes there's shame, and then
also I tend to who is it how,who is it that I want to be and
how?
And that's where the boundariescan really get powerful.
(10:16):
But in the meantime, when we'removing through these shifts,
it's uncomfortable, and so a lotof times what will happen is
that's times where we're morevulnerable to maybe tricky
habits, maybe it has to do withsubstances, or we tend to maybe
look for comfort right away inareas that maybe aren't that
(10:37):
well thought out or good for usNot always, but sometimes
Because that discomfort isreally hard to be with right.
And so what I would say aboutthose times of transition that
makes them so tough is thatbecause we're redefining who am
I and how am I now that I havethis different role, or I'm in
this different phase of life, orwhatever the case may be.
(10:57):
We're also navigating thephysical sometimes and emotional
discomfort that comes alongwith that.
I don't know if I answered yourquestion.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
No, you did and you know.
Even so, I went through aseparation and once the
separation happened, it was likethis big weight was lifted off
my shoulders.
I felt like I'd been drowningfor years and finally I could
breathe.
So something that was reallypositive for me.
Finally I could breathe.
(11:27):
So something that was reallypositive for me.
But there was still a shiftthat I needed to adjust to right
.
Who am I now that I'm not awife?
Who am I now that I'm notraising children with a partner?
So, even though it was such apositive shift for me, there was
still a shift that needed to bemanaged and dealt with.
So, even in positivecircumstances, these are stages
(11:50):
that people are going to gothrough.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Right, and I think it's really important to honor
that.
And me too, I went through aseparation and divorce and I
thought I would never.
I thought any.
My belief was anything can befigured out.
Right, I am going to figurethis out.
But I had to come to thatreally difficult and painful
awareness that, no, like I can'tfigure this out by myself.
You know, this is not somethingI can make, be you know, make
(12:16):
work by myself.
And so, yes, even thoughleaving ultimately was such an
important and good decision,there is a lot to navigate
around.
Okay, and now what?
And to also, do I hold thestigma of divorce inside of me,
in my body, or am I going toallow that to?
You know, am I going to releasethat?
But there's a whole processthat's really important to honor
(12:38):
in that in-between right, inthat space of moving from one
way of being to another, andit's and it is uncomfortable,
but that discomfort is actuallya really important discomfort.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Right, it's, it's necessary.
So how do we start to reframethat discomfort as part of
growing, instead of seeing it asa sign that that we're doing
something wrong?
Yes, Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So there's so many different ways I could answer
this question, but this is whereI think mindfulness can really
be helpful.
So I'm going to talk justreally briefly because I'm going
to kind of see if I can offerthe framework.
So when we are navigatingsomething tricky, right, we
might be getting signals like,oh, I'm feeling uncomfortable,
oh, there's the person you knowwho's asking me, you know, I
(13:23):
don't know like how is my ex?
Let's just pretend just to gowith a relationship breakup for
a second.
Yeah, so I'm going to getinformation either from the
outside, like oh, you're nottogether, or ask questions, or
maybe a concerned look, or myown internal, like contention or
holding my breath or whateverthe case may be.
And a lot of times what canhappen is we want to skip over
(13:45):
that sensation as fast aspossible, get away from it,
right, like go do something elseor have a drink or whatever the
case may be, to kind of subduethe sensation.
And what's tricky about that isthat then we go into a
habituated way of being usually,and so what's important here is
to stay with that discomfort.
So I'm going to give an exampleIf I notice that I'm holding my
(14:07):
breath, I see somebody whereI'm in a situation I hold my
breath.
First it's the buildingawareness.
And this is where thatmindfulness comes in to check in
with myself and notice, oh, I'mconstricting my breath, right.
And so when we notice that,then we have a choice.
We can exhale slowly, we mightcheck in, I wonder what's
happening with me.
(14:27):
Again, ideally non-judgmentallythat's easier said than done
right.
But then maybe there's anexhale, slow exhale.
If we can stay with thatsensation enough, using maybe
it's reminders it could be amantra like it's okay, you're
okay the way you are, orwhatever the case may be,
whatever resonates, and thenreally breathing through it,
(14:49):
then we can get some newawareness.
You know what I can tighten,and then I can calm and soothe
myself and I'm going to be okayand get through this, and that
is a felt experience.
And then from that we makedifferent choices that aren't
habituated.
And so that's where themindfulness comes in.
It's really about, in themoment, recognizing whatever
signs that we're uncomfortable,whatever those signs are, and
(15:12):
then attending to that, eitherwith thought, like you got this
girl, we're going to be okay,you know, or like some kind of
practice, like exhaling slow orreorienting to like looking
around and noticing okay, I'msafe.
You know I might feel messyinside, but everything, there's
no threat here.
You know that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
If you keep just rushing past it and trying to
pretend that it's not there,it's going to keep coming back,
which is tough.
So it's good to kind of sitwith that discomfort, but
eventually you become you'reokay with it and you're able to
just move past it.
For a long time I felt like Iwas going to get judged for
(15:55):
keeping my former spouse's lastname, because it was the same
last name as my children and Iwanted to keep that.
And now it's so people are likeoh, are you related to
so-and-so?
I'm like, well, that's my ex'slast name, but there's no shame
with that anymore.
But that took a while, becausefor a long time I almost thought
(16:19):
I think I was judging myselffor having made that decision.
So there was some shame thatcame with having made that
decision.
But now it just doesn't botherme at all and I'm okay with my
decision and I live with it andit's fine.
But I think if I would havejust rushed past it and tried to
(16:40):
brush it away and you know, tryto cope by doing something that
wasn't good for me or whatnotLike it's not going to go away
and you're just going to keeptrying to skirt around it or
sweeping it away.
So it's just, it's not, it'snot good for you to not to not
deal with it and not be okaywith your decision, and you do
(17:03):
need to sit with that discomfortfor a little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yes, 100%, and it takes away the power of it too,
like you mentioned, right.
But when we try to get awayfrom it, it actually increases
the power it has over us,because now we're having to
avoid it too, you know, and soonce we can face it, then its
power tends to go away.
It doesn't have so much powerover us.
We could have freedom.
I will say that sometimes, if wehold a lot of shame, it can be
(17:27):
really hard to do that on ourown.
And that's where having a coachwho is very, you know, capable
of leading you the way throughthis or guiding from behind,
asking the right questions, or atherapist, you know, if there's
a lot of shame, and especiallyif it's tied to some trauma,
then a therapist might be thebetter choice to really help
(17:48):
work through whatever is stillholding you in a place where you
can't quite break free of thisdiscomfort, or the discomfort
feels like it's flooding, and sosometimes we can't do it alone.
And that's not a sign ofweakness, right, that's just a
sign that there's a lot therethat needs attending to.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I've had a therapist through every single one of my
big life changes.
I've had therapists in betweenand I still have a therapist,
even though I'm feeling great.
I just think it's so importantto be able to talk to somebody
about what's happening and thenhaving somebody else give you
the words that you need tomanage your situation and to
(18:28):
manage your thoughts around it.
Yes, absolutely yeah, and somany of us.
We think that healing is thislike really neat kind of linear
line, but it's usually far fromthat right.
It's two steps forward, onestep back, a twirl and three
steps to the side.
So what are some of the waysthat you help people trust the
(18:51):
process when it feels reallymessy or feels like you're
backsliding sometimes?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yes, so it's really common for people when they are
experiencing some kind of whatfeels to them like a setback
right or like a regression, whatI do most of all is a lot of
educating people about this andnormalizing it.
So, for example, like success,like progress, it is in a
(19:17):
straight line and that is reallyimportant.
It's important that it not be,because the way that we learn,
the way that our brains learnand the way that our brains are
actually structured, is that weso if we think about the way
that we've known life to be, asa big worn trail, right, like it
is worn, it's been traveled byso many people, right and if we
(19:39):
think about it in terms of thetrail in the forest, in our
minds.
It's because we have traveleddown that path so many times,
right.
And so when we're creating atransformation, when we're
moving through something newright and we're trying to maybe
change, there's a lifestylechange or there's a new way that
we're relating to ourselves, ora new habit we're trying to
embrace, or even a loss.
(20:00):
Grief works the same way.
We are actually bushwhacking,so to speak, like we're creating
a new trail.
Right, we're creating a newpath.
Now, that path is not going tobe as traveled, so you're going
to.
When you get lost which youinevitably will, because life is
life and we're going to bestimulated by lots of different
(20:20):
things, or there might be thingsthat remind us or create
sadness or anxiety then we'reoff and then we're like lost, so
to speak, and we go and we, butthe easiest trail to find is
that well-worn one.
So we're going to go back,right?
But, every time we make, werealize, oh, I'm back, I'm back
in this, I'm back, you know, inthis place I'm feeling that
(20:42):
shame or self-criticism.
I'm I'm, whatever the case maybe, right, like I'm in this
well-worn way of being that Idon't want to be anymore.
We find our way back out.
Every time we find our way backout to that new path.
We're strengthening thatlearning.
It gets strong.
So it's important.
It's not that I would say go,try to have a setback.
You're going to naturally havesetbacks.
(21:04):
You don't have to try, but,like, every time, you do.
If you could see it as okay,here's another opportunity for
me to practice, okay, here'sanother opportunity for me to
practice.
And that is where that growthreally happens.
And what I'll say to people is,if you don't, if you have a
linear path, it's like somehowit's real, like shoot to the sky
, linear.
The first time you have asetback, you're sliding all the
way down.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I'm like but if you're learning slowly through
regression.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You're not going to slide all the way back down,
because you've practiced gettingback up, You've practiced
picking yourself up, findingyour way again right.
So it's really important.
And so that's kind of how Ieducate people around like and I
remind them and remind thembecause we need lots of
reminders that that is yourprocess and that is a process
that I absolutely trust andencourage other people to as
(21:48):
well.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I like your analogy of a path.
Right, You're bushwhacking yourway through and sometimes
you're going to go investigatethis blueberry bush over here.
You're going to go, you know,look, maybe there's something
really good and you're learningmore about yourself and the
different things that you mightlike.
So it's okay to kind of go offpath a little bit and see new
(22:10):
things and then go back and thenkeep moving forward.
But yeah, so if you do fallback, you've learned all these
other little things that are onthe path that you might have
enjoyed.
So it's yeah, it's never meantto be linear.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yes, and I so appreciate you mentioning that
too.
Yeah, because I think it'simportant to recognize all that
you've learned along the way andas you've kind of trailed off,
you know, like it's yeah, andclaiming that you have these new
tools, yeah, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
So when we were talking earlier, we were talking
about brain science.
So you've talked about how thenervous system can interpret
transformation as a threat.
So can you explain why changefeels so scary on a neurological
level and how neuroplasticityactually works in our favor
during times of transition?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yes, so going back to that same kind of piggybacking
off of that same idea around thetrails right, the well-worn
path, even if it's not thehealthiest right in terms of
where we want to be now, it is apath that our nervous system
and think primitive nervoussystem right understands as a
(23:23):
way that we've learned tosurvive.
Okay, so we know how to survivein this way.
Way that we've learned tosurvive, okay, so we know how to
survive in this way when we'reveering off, even if it's a good
new lifestyle shift, a goodsomething that is helpful for us
to embrace, that's healthy, aboundary that we're saying we're
learning to say no.
We've always said yes and thatno is really important, right?
(23:45):
The nervous system and this is alot depending each unique
person has their own set ofcircumstances and the ways that
they've coped right and managed.
Our nervous system perceivesthat as a departure from the way
we know how to survive, right,and so it kicks us into a lot of
times fight, flight, freeze.
There's a lot of sometimesfawning, you know.
(24:07):
So if I say, if I'm practicing,saying no, when I've always,
when I've learned to cope, is tosay yes, is to fawn and please
and right, then my nervoussystem is going to kick up like
oh you know, we're in, we're inbig trouble and our in our pride
and our primitive brain doesn'tdiscern somebody being
(24:28):
displeased.
We're tribal, we need to belongright as a species from.
We're going to be kicked out ofthe tribe and therefore we're
going to die.
You know, it does notdifferentiate in important ways.
And so when we notice thatresponse, that is a really
natural, healthy nervous systemletting you know hey, we don't
(24:51):
know how to survive this way,right, yeah.
And so that's again where thatmindfulness can come back into
play, like looking around andasking yourself and I do this
and it feels dumb every singletime.
But it's so important is, Iwill tell myself look around the
room, elizabeth, and see, isthere a train coming at you?
You know like, is theresomething?
And it sounds dumb.
Of course I know there's notright, but my primitive brain
(25:15):
needs to take in evidence thatI'm not in a dangerous situation
and once it does, it calms down.
It calms me down as we continueto get back on the new trail.
Bushwhack, get back on the newtrail.
That practicing we were talkingabout just a few minutes ago.
Our nervous system is learning.
Okay, we can survive this way,but it's not a radical shift,
(25:38):
right?
We have to learn that we cansurvive that way and that
learning is really healthy andit's a robust nervous system,
it's not a broken nervous system.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You learn you can say no and you're not going to get
dumped, or you can say no andyou're not going to get fired.
And you know learning to say no.
In these low stake situations,like turning down a loyalty card
or something, you learn thatit's okay to say no and the
world's not going to comecrashing down.
So, I guess, learning to say noin low stake situations,
(26:10):
learning that everything isgoing to be okay, and then you
can start moving up to thingsthat are, you know, higher risk,
like turning down a workproject because you already have
too many things going on.
So, yeah, really important topractice saying no and to remind
yourself that you're going tobe okay.
There is no leopard chasing you.
(26:31):
I don't know what animals existin the prehistoric age A woolly
mammoth.
Right, you're not going to getkicked out of the tribe, you're
not going to die.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
But learning that you're going to be okay in these
situations that used to scareyou, yes, and honoring that on
some level, I think we think ofanxiety as bad, but honoring
like this is my nervous systemhaving a response and this is my
way of learning to.
This is my way of teaching mynervous system that we're going
(27:00):
to be okay.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
We need a certain amount of anxiety.
Anxiety is like a normal partof life.
It's what keeps us alive, andso we need a certain amount of
anxiety.
But too much anxiety can can bereally harmful, for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, so you've worked with lots of people who
are leaving toxic relationshipsand navigating tough challenges,
like you mentioned,co-parenting with a narcissist.
So what do you see as thebiggest hurdles there, and what
role do boundaries play inhelping to keep people safe?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
over backwards and trying to keep things copacetic.
You know there's usually somekind of message inside that's
saying either their needs aren'tvalid, their needs are harmful
like if they take care ofthemselves they're hurting
somebody else or that somehowthey need to sacrifice their own
well-being on behalf of.
And so one of the reallyimportant parts I think of
(28:13):
working with and helping supportsomebody who's leaving a toxic
relationship and I have lefttoxic relationships too, I
certainly know this from beingin it, know this from being in
(28:34):
it is to first of all reallygently remind them over and over
again that their needs matterand are valid and that they're
not responsible for someoneelse's reaction.
Right Like that is a tough one.
Usually we're in toxicrelationships because on some
level we've determined that thetoxicity is either something
that we can change, like ifwe're you know, or that if we
(28:55):
just do things right or goodenough that you know that
that'll make it help them beokay, and so that's where that
codependence can get really big.
There's a blurriness aroundwhat I do and how someone else
responds, how I respond andsomeone else responds.
So I think the first big partis like you get to have your
responses and your feelings andyour needs, and even if someone
(29:19):
else has a problem with it,that's their problem.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
That's something they need to deal with.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yes, exactly, yeah, and so that's the biggest I
think the biggest one.
And then from there,forgiveness forgiveness to
themselves for betrayingthemselves, because a lot of
times they will feel shame thatthey are in that situation, that
they didn't see it, that ittook so long, and so a lot of
that forgiveness around there'sa reason that you're here or
(29:48):
that you were there and we canattend and have compassion for
you, right?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
And your choice.
You're not a bad person forsticking around in a
relationship that wasn't goodfor you.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Or for, you know, having bent over backwards just
to survive and to be in thisplace and it's easy to beat
yourself up for having stuckaround for as long as you did.
But having that space to bekind to yourself and to love
yourself and forgive yourselffor any of the decisions that
you may have made in that time,yes absolutely, it's so
(30:23):
important.
So important.
So we go through transitions inlife all the time, whether it's
marriages, jobs, getting newkids, and midlife and grief hold
such profound transitions.
So how do you see people startto integrate grief not just as
(30:45):
an ending, but also as a part ofyour transformation?
And what feels unique aboutmidlife shifts compared to
earlier ones?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yes.
So I think actually, both withgrief and loss and with midlife,
there's a lot of.
What I would say is that wedon't culturally, at least in
the United States, offer muchspace for these experiences to
be honored, and so there can bea sense of, in grief and loss, a
(31:15):
timetable, like I'm supposed toget on with it or I'm supposed
to grief.
This is what grief looks like,and grief can look very, very
different depending on theperson.
And then also, in terms ofmidlife, there's a sense of I
think you know there's.
We're such as we celebrateyouth in such like kind of
(31:39):
incredible ways.
The youth is beautiful, right?
I don't think it's the onlybeautiful life phase, and I find
I found elderly people gorgeous, you know.
But I think that societally,we're taught that beauty fades
and and we're taught to look fora very specific kind of beauty,
and so, and so I think in bothcases there can be a sense of
devaluing no-transcript yes,exactly Right and a recognition
(32:26):
of the finite, like this is notgoing to go on forever, you know
.
And so, and so I think what'swhat's really important in both
of these cases, in in, inmidlife, and in grief and loss
in general, is this idea thathow do we, how do we offer some,
on some level, honoring, andlike I would even say sacred
(32:48):
honoring to these passages.
And also that these passagesaren't a signif, they don't
signify that something is gone.
If we've lost a person, yes, ora pet, yes, they're gone, right
, in the sense of like they'renot, we're not communicating
with them in the same way andthat sort of thing, but really
(33:08):
honoring who they've been in ourlives and how they live, how we
can honor them still today,rather than get over it, and I
think, the same with midlife howdo I honor the life that it's
brought me here, the choicesI've made, right Even if there's
regret, and how do I integratethat going forward?
(33:32):
And so I think it also comesback to the discomfort of that.
So it's not always roses andlollipops right.
It's a lot of times thediscomfort, the pain and the
releasing of I wanted things tobe a certain way.
I wish things were differentand really allowing ourselves to
meet what is with compassionand honoring.
(33:54):
It's hard, hard edges sometimes.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I don't know if I answered your question.
No, you did.
No, it was great.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, midlife definitely brings a lot of
changes and challenges and a lotof looking back on who you
thought you were going to be andwhat you wanted for yourself,
and then just sometimes maybefeeling like you weren't
successful because you didn'tachieve those things.
So there is a big transitionand there is some grief because
(34:24):
you are letting go of who youwere and who you thought you
were going to be.
And, yeah, I mean midlifecrisis is a thing, right, it
happens to a lot of us.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yes, and I think it is a crisis.
But the beauty of a it can feellike a crisis, but the beauty
of crisis and I tell this to myclients all the time is that
when we have a crisis, thingsare kicked up and it's so messy
and it's so uncomfortable andit's oh, who wants to be in a
crisis?
But things are.
I talk about it as a room likeimagine that all the furniture's
(34:55):
bolted down to the floor.
But now, in a crisis, it's notonly the bolts are off, it's
floating, like, oh, the couch isover there, you know.
And so now there is that roomto ask yourself where do I want
to put this?
You know it's been bolted.
I never even thought about itbecause it was always there.
Where do I actually want this?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Where do I want to put it?
Yes, where do I want this oldcouch?
Do I still want?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
this old couch.
Do I still want it?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Yeah, I love that analogy.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
So I think of crises as also incredible, rich,
fertile times of opportunity.
No, I like that.
I'm going to use that someday.
So it's really important tohold space for ourselves and let
other people hold space for usas we go through these
transitions.
So for anybody who's used tocriticizing themselves all the
time, or some codependentpatterns that just aren't
serving them anymore, what wouldbe some of the first small
(35:51):
steps towards having, like, realcompassion for yourself?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah.
So I would say the very, veryfirst step is noticing that if
that's a struggle that you don't, because a lot of times what
will happen is that people willhave harsh thoughts, and it's
not a harsh thought, it's justthe way it is.
They're just being honest withthemselves, you know.
And so I think the first bigstep is recognizing no, actually
(36:18):
that is a critical thought.
That's really harsh.
Because when we can identify,when we're having those harsh
responses to ourselves, we openup the possibility for another
choice.
And then, once we've opened thepossibility for another choice,
the question then would bewhat's a way I could attend to
myself?
And that's going to bedifferent.
So for some people it might be.
(36:38):
I'm going to take a hand in myheart, feel my beating heart and
remember that I have a bigheart.
For some people it might bebreath, taking a deep breath.
For some people it might be ashift of the belief and
narrative.
Right, instead of callingmyself stupid, I'm going to say,
okay, I'm learning, you know,like.
So it depends on the person.
But the biggest step, biggeststep, is recognizing that you're
(37:00):
doing it and it's notnecessarily truth, and then and
then from there, opening thepossibility of another way.
But the recognition is soimportant because if we just
assume that it's the truth andthat's the way it is, it is so
hard to offer ourselvessomething else.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, and that comes from like having shame that
we've carried with us for areally long time, thinking that
we're a bad person or we're notworthy of you know, and it's
okay to make mistakes, it's okayto do these things.
I'm still a good person.
So being able to understand andvalue yourself enough to be
(37:38):
able to give yourself that spaceto forgive yourself and forgive
any of the decisions you'vemade and just be able to be okay
with who you are in this moment?
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yes, and a lot of times people will think that if
they do that, they're not goingto be holding themselves
accountable, when all of theresearch shows that actually
compassion leads to greateraccountability, because shame
tends to be circular.
Right, we're not good, so thenwe make decisions that reinforce
that we're not good, and youknow, and so and so once we can
really practice the compassion,we're actually shifting
(38:12):
ourselves and into more of anaccountability to to show up in
ways that are authentic and feelgood to us.
So it's, it's counterintuitiveA lot of people I get this a lot
that they think that if they'renot hard with themselves, they
won't shift.
And it's yeah, it's just not.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
It's just not, it's a myth.
Yeah, being hard on yourself isjust going to keep you stuck in
that bad place.
So, for people who are in thethick of transition right now,
what is one simple mindfulnesspractice that you could suggest
that they could try to helpground themselves?
Yeah, that they could try tohelp ground themselves.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yeah, so qigong is a form of moving meditation and it
derives from ancient Chinesemedicine.
And according to qigong andancient Chinese medicine, there
is a point in the bottom of ourfeet, kind of like in the palm
of your foot, just below sort of, where the I call it, like the
foot pad is just below that.
Okay, it's called the bubblingspring, okay, and this is a, and
(39:10):
the idea is that this is aplace where we can bring in
energy and grounding, and sowhat I would invite people to do
, if it resonates with them, isto put their feet on the ground
and then imagine that roots arecoming down from that area and
that kind of just think in themiddle of your foot, just to
make it simple, right, and thatfrom those roots that are
(39:31):
extending down, down, down intothe earth, you're bringing up
the nutrients and the water fromthat into your bubbling spring.
And so just sometimes justdoing a little visualization,
with the feeling that has thesensory part of feeling your
feet on the ground, but thenalso the imagery of like
grounding down, and you canimagine as you add breath to it,
(39:54):
as you exhale, you ground, asyou inhale, you receive.
That's one way.
If that's too much, then what Iwould say is just take a moment
and check in with if you want tocheck in with, if you're visual
, check in with what's aroundyou.
Just notice what's there.
Come back to the moment.
The moment is safe.
If it's not safe, then that'ssomething to pay attention to
(40:18):
yeah, yeah.
But usually the moment's safe.
Or check in with your hearing.
Just one thing you hear, right,Just bringing the sensory back
in can really help withoverwhelm.
So I'm adding more than one,but just I would say.
Anything that helps bring youback into the moment can be
grounding.
Gratitude can be grounding.
Anything that brings you backinto what do I have right now?
(40:41):
What is the safety that I cannotice?
Speaker 1 (40:52):
sure, yeah, no, I I love that.
I often step outside and I'lllook for three things that I can
see, what are three things thatI can hear, what are three
things that I feel on my body,whether it's my shirt touching
my skin or whatnot, just kind ofgetting back into that, that
moment, and just realizing I'msafe.
Right now I I might be worryingabout this one thing, but right
now, in this moment, there isnothing wrong with me and I'm in
a safe place and I can worryabout whatever it is that's
(41:14):
bothering me later.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yes, and another, just quick tip, in case it's
helpful to anybody.
So pinpointing those things isawesome, pinpointing those
things is awesome.
And then another tool is then,once you do that and you
recognize your safety,unfocusing.
And so, because we tend tolaser focus when we're nervous
(41:38):
or stressed, and so then, oncewe've identified, okay, here are
three things I can all you know, I can see, I can hear then
unfocusing and bringing in thewhole panorama of your vision,
or the peripheral periphery ofyour vision, can also help send
signals to your brain that thecoast is clear and we're okay.
So that's just real easy stuffthat you can do to navigate over
(42:01):
mom.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, amazing.
So before we close, can youtell us about your podcast and
where people can connect withyou?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yes, so you can find the Calming Ground podcast.
Anywhere you get your podcastsUsually that's Spotify, apple
and that is a podcast that justhas this kind of thing Very
similar, like just reallyhelping people anchor back.
I bring in some of the ancientChinese wisdom, because that's
something that I know a lotabout, but then also just
(42:33):
different ways that we mightreframe or reflect or come back
into our center and find thecalm.
Where I offer coaching there'sgroup coaching, one-on-one
coaching.
I have a bunch of differentfreebies there too.
I'm in different resources thatcan help, again just inviting
(42:54):
people to come back into theirown calming ground.
I believe we all have thatground within us, and so it's
just about reconnecting with ourown calm.
So I met my website and youwere mentioning there's a.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
there's a freebie for for any of the listeners here.
It's a morning ritual, is thatcorrect?
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Yes and um, I that one is the most popular um gift
that I offer out.
Um, and I think just thestarting our day with intention
and some practices can make ahuge difference.
Um, and also it's.
I think what I find is thatit's easier for people to
remember to come back to themwhen they have a routine of
starting with those practicesand so then when they need them
(43:34):
they can just pull themthroughout the day.
Man, I'm stressed, let me justdo this little five-minute,
three-minute, whatever I needpractice to kind of recenter
myself, and so, yeah, anybody'swelcome to check that out.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
I'm going to be downloading that real quick
myself, and so, yeah, anybody'swelcome to check that out.
I'm going to be downloading thatreally quick.
I think it'll be.
I think it'll be great,elizabeth, thank you.
Thank you for for being heretoday, and I really appreciate
that you've shared both yourexpertise and your personal
experience.
It's made this conversation sogrounded and relatable for a lot
of people.
I know my listeners are goingto take a lot of comfort and
encouragement from everythingthat you've shared, and it's
(44:08):
been a real gift having you onthe show.
And, for those of you who arelistening, if you want to hear
more from Elizabeth, make surethat you check out her podcast,
the Calming Ground, to learnmore about all the work that she
does, and I'm going to linkeverything in the show notes so
that you're able to connect withher really easily.
Thank you, everyone for hangingout with us today.
If you liked the episode, I'dlove it if you would share it
with someone who needs to hearit and heck, share it with the
(44:30):
whole world.
I'd love for more people outthere to benefit from Elizabeth
and her words.
So I'd also appreciate it ifyou would be so kind as to
follow me and maybe leave acomment.
I'm most active on Facebook atthe Codependent Doctor, and
Instagram at drangelela downey.
I wish you all a great week asyou learn to foster a better
relationship with the mostimportant person in your life
(44:51):
yourself.
I'm going to talk to you againin two weeks.
Take care for now you've gotthis.
Thanks for spending time withme today.
I hope something in thisepisode resonated with you.
If it did hit, follow,subscribe or share it with
someone who needs to hear ittoday.
The codependent doctor is notmedical advice and doesn't
replace speaking to yourhealthcare provider.
(45:11):
If you're in a crisis, pleasego to the nearest ER or call 911
or reach out to your localmental health helpline.
I'll be back here next weekwith more support stories and
strategies, because we'rehealing together.
Today's conversation with Elizabeth Minton is such a
good one.
We're diving into what itreally feels like to be in that
messy in-between stage of lifewhen you've left something
behind but you're not quitewhere you want to be yet.
We're going to talk about whygrowth isn't linear, the brain
science behind why change feelsso uncomfortable, and how to
actually hold space for yourselfwith more compassion during
(00:22):
these transitions.
Elizabeth also shares her ownstory and some simple, practical
tools that you can start usingright away.
So grab a coffee, take a seat.
You do not want to miss thisone.
Welcome to the CodependentDoctor, a podcast where we
unpack the messy, beautifuljourney of healing from
codependency.
If you're burned out frompeople pleasing, stuck in
(00:42):
unhealthy patterns or just tiredof putting yourself last,
you're in the right place.
I'm Dr Angela Downey, a familydoctor and fellow codependent,
and I'm here to help youreconnect to your authentic self
.
One honest conversation at atime.
Here we go.
Hello to all my wonderfulpodcast listeners and welcome to
the 56th episode of theCodependent Doctor.
(01:05):
Listeners, and welcome to the56th episode of the Codependent
Doctor.
I'm your host, dr Angela Downey, a family doctor and fellow
codependent, who's here to helpus untangle our patterns, heal
our hearts and reclaim our peace.
For today's episode, we have aguest with us.
Her name is Elizabeth Minton.
She's a psychotherapist,mindful life coach, facilitator
of an embodied mindfulness,self-care membership for women,
and creator and host of theCalming Ground podcast.
(01:27):
So hello, elizabeth, I'm soglad to have you join us today.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I am so happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, and I'm glad you're able to make it.
I've been really lookingforward to this conversation
because the way that you talkabout transitions and growth and
that uncomfortable in-betweenspace, it's so real and so
needed to be talked about, and Iknow my listeners are going to
get a lot out of all of yourwisdom and your story, and I
want to thank you so much forjoining me today.
One of my favorite traditionson the show is that we discuss
(01:57):
what we're grateful for, becausewhen we stop to think about
what we're grateful for, ithelps our brains focus on what's
working instead of what'smissing or broken.
So I'd like to ask you is thereanything that you're especially
grateful for today?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
You know, the seasons are changing ever so slightly
and we have been so hot and it'sbeen yesterday and today have
been cool and beautiful.
It's like the beginning of theintro into the fall, and I love
the fall, it's my favoriteseason.
So I am just feeling somegratitude for the shifting of
the seasons.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, fall is by far my favorite season as well.
I don't understand it whensomeone looks at me like I'm
crazy for saying that, but yeah,I love the cool weather.
There's fewer bugs and justhearing the crunching leaves
under my feet is great.
Whereabouts are you from?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Columbus, ohio, to Midwest Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Midwest.
Okay, and you do?
You get snow out there.
This might be a silly question.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
No, that's okay.
Yeah, we do.
We don't get the lake like upnorth in Ohio you get the lake
effect.
We don't have that.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
But we get plenty of snow, but you do have distinct
seasons.
Oh yeah, okay, amazing, yeah,for myself.
I just got back from vacationand I'm grateful that I was able
to get away and I brought mycomputer with me, and I've
always done work while I was onvacation, but this time I just
left my computer and my luggageand it was great.
(03:25):
So I'm actually grateful forthe first time to have been able
to unplug completely from work,and that's unheard of for me,
so really glad that I was ableto do that.
So that's kind of what I'mgrateful for today.
That's awesome.
It's good to just let it all go.
So, elizabeth, why don't westart by having you share a
(03:45):
little bit about yourself andwhat led you to the work that
you're doing as apsychotherapist, a mindful life
coach and hosting the podcast,the Calming Ground?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, so I'm a psychotherapist yes, that was
kind of how I started in mycareer.
I'm a psychotherapist yes, thatwas kind of how I started in my
career.
Before that I had a windingjourney.
I actually come from a familyof therapists.
So when I was younger I said Iwasn't going to do that.
I was like, no, I'm going to dosomething else.
(04:17):
And so I went and I got amaster's in peace studies in
England actually I'm in WestYorkshire and loved that but
ended up coming back to theUnited States and doing some
work in Washington DC withsurvivors of torture and human
trafficking and there weretherapists that worked for that
organization and I watched andwitnessed some of like what they
(04:40):
because we worked in teams andwhat they were talking about and
the work that they were doingand I thought I think that's
actually I think that's more methan the work that I'm doing
right now and just the kind ofclinical piece, the real getting
into the human to human contactkind of thing, rather than the
macro.
So I went back to school, gotanother master's degree and then
(05:05):
started practicingpsychotherapy and I was doing
that for a long time just in aprivate practice and then
ultimately recognized that therewas something that was missing
for me in my world and also withthe clients that I was seeing,
and so that had to do with,maybe, the in-between sessions,
the sort of coming back to themoment, work and that piece.
(05:29):
And so from there I did a lotof other training learned about
forest bathing, learned aboutqigong, which is a form of
moving meditation, learned aboutsitting meditation, and then
when I felt I felt transformedby this, and that's when I
created the Calming Ground,which is the mindful life
coaching.
The podcast came from that.
(05:49):
The Calming Ground podcast allcame from my recognition that
there is this whole other part.
Yes, it's self-discovery is soimportant, it's so important and
self-awareness and the work,the deep work of therapy has its
place and it's very, veryuseful.
And that moment to momentcoming back to our bodies, in
(06:10):
this moment, our breath, what'saround us, is so simple and
life-changing.
And so that's how I ended updoing the work I do today.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Amazing.
I went to a mindfulness retreatand forest bathing was part of
it and my partner tried toconvince me that this was done
in the nude and I was likeyou're crazy, like no, we're not
going to go marching throughthe forest in the nude.
But a little part of me was alittle bit nervous.
But I loved it and no, itwasn't done in the nude.
But it really helps to likecenter yourself and just
(06:45):
gathering that energy from thetrees, and is that your
experience as well?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
It is transformative, yes, and I think that what's
also so powerful about it is theparadigm of in forest bathing,
and I can understand the bathingpart is a little confusing,
right, but the element of itwhere you are in relationship,
so it's using a paradigm ofrelationship, we're in
relationship with the trees,we're in relationship with the
(07:11):
sky and that sense of, I think,moving through and allowing
ourselves to ground, becausethere's a lot of meditative
qualities to forest bathing.
And then there's the biological,the NK fighter cells that are
transmitted through the air fromthe trees, that are helped with
immunity, all of those thingstoo.
But then I think that thelonging that can come with
(07:32):
forest bathing, that sense of nomatter what, we're not alone,
because the sky is always thereand we can reach the sky or the
ground, whatever is around usfor resource.
So it could be with the trees,but it also could be with a rock
, with the grass, withwhatever's around.
It's so powerful.
So, yes, I find it, I find itamazing.
(07:53):
And then there's so manystories I could go into about
that.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, for sure, me too, I'm thinking of a couple,
but we'll kind of maybe if wehave time for it later.
But yeah for sure, forestbathing is amazing.
I love being amongst the trees,so I'm glad you brought that up
.
So your work really centersaround guiding people through
these big life transitions andleaving toxic relationships,
navigating midlife, settingboundaries and moving through
(08:17):
grief.
Why do you think these momentsof transition are such turning
points in people's lives?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah.
So I think anytime there is ashift in identity and I'll give
an example I did a few years agoI started running groups for
specifically they were designedfor women who were navigating
separation and or likepost-divorce with children, with
(08:46):
an ex-narcissist right, so kindof navigating how do we be
aligned with who we are in a waythat we understand and
recognize ourselves to be, butalso we're in this kind of
in-between situation, and sosometimes it's big life
transitions.
Like a separation, that kind oflike brings up our sense of who
am I, what does this mean aboutme?
(09:08):
It could bring up shame Interms of grief.
It's in and any kind of loss,any kind of perceived loss, even
if that loss is ultimately inthe case of like, sometimes,
divorce, the loss can be freeingright.
The loss can be something thatwe actually are feeling kind of,
maybe some growth or progresswith.
(09:31):
And even in those cases, in anyof these situations, whether
it's something that we feel like, oh my goodness, I needed to
leave and I did, or we feel like, oh my goodness, I'm in this
life transition, I'm in midlife,I lost somebody I love, I, you
know, whatever the case may be,there is still an element of
(09:54):
grief, because who we were isnow undeniably shifting right,
our role and, in the case ofthat group, that I that I
started with answering thisquestion, you know it's how am I
?
How do I both forgive myself,you know, for being in this
situation, because a lot oftimes there's shame, and then
also I tend to who is it how,who is it that I want to be and
how?
And that's where the boundariescan really get powerful.
(10:16):
But in the meantime, when we'removing through these shifts,
it's uncomfortable, and so a lotof times what will happen is
that's times where we're morevulnerable to maybe tricky
habits, maybe it has to do withsubstances, or we tend to maybe
look for comfort right away inareas that maybe aren't that
(10:37):
well thought out or good for usNot always, but sometimes
Because that discomfort isreally hard to be with right.
And so what I would say aboutthose times of transition that
makes them so tough is thatbecause we're redefining who am
I and how am I now that I havethis different role, or I'm in
this different phase of life, orwhatever the case may be.
(10:57):
We're also navigating thephysical sometimes and emotional
discomfort that comes alongwith that.
I don't know if I answered yourquestion.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
No, you did and you know.
Even so, I went through aseparation and once the
separation happened, it was likethis big weight was lifted off
my shoulders.
I felt like I'd been drowningfor years and finally I could
breathe.
So something that was reallypositive for me.
Finally I could breathe.
(11:27):
So something that was reallypositive for me.
But there was still a shiftthat I needed to adjust to right
.
Who am I now that I'm not awife?
Who am I now that I'm notraising children with a partner?
So, even though it was such apositive shift for me, there was
still a shift that needed to bemanaged and dealt with.
So, even in positivecircumstances, these are stages
(11:50):
that people are going to gothrough.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Right, and I think it's really important to honor
that.
And me too, I went through aseparation and divorce and I
thought I would never.
I thought any.
My belief was anything can befigured out.
Right, I am going to figurethis out.
But I had to come to thatreally difficult and painful
awareness that, no, like I can'tfigure this out by myself.
You know, this is not somethingI can make, be you know, make
(12:16):
work by myself.
And so, yes, even thoughleaving ultimately was such an
important and good decision,there is a lot to navigate
around.
Okay, and now what?
And to also, do I hold thestigma of divorce inside of me,
in my body, or am I going toallow that to?
You know, am I going to releasethat?
But there's a whole processthat's really important to honor
(12:38):
in that in-between right, inthat space of moving from one
way of being to another, andit's and it is uncomfortable,
but that discomfort is actuallya really important discomfort.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Right, it's, it's necessary.
So how do we start to reframethat discomfort as part of
growing, instead of seeing it asa sign that that we're doing
something wrong?
Yes, Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
So there's so many different ways I could answer
this question, but this is whereI think mindfulness can really
be helpful.
So I'm going to talk justreally briefly because I'm going
to kind of see if I can offerthe framework.
So when we are navigatingsomething tricky, right, we
might be getting signals like,oh, I'm feeling uncomfortable,
oh, there's the person you knowwho's asking me, you know, I
(13:23):
don't know like how is my ex?
Let's just pretend just to gowith a relationship breakup for
a second.
Yeah, so I'm going to getinformation either from the
outside, like oh, you're nottogether, or ask questions, or
maybe a concerned look, or myown internal, like contention or
holding my breath or whateverthe case may be.
And a lot of times what canhappen is we want to skip over
(13:45):
that sensation as fast aspossible, get away from it,
right, like go do something elseor have a drink or whatever the
case may be, to kind of subduethe sensation.
And what's tricky about that isthat then we go into a
habituated way of being usually,and so what's important here is
to stay with that discomfort.
So I'm going to give an exampleIf I notice that I'm holding my
(14:07):
breath, I see somebody whereI'm in a situation I hold my
breath.
First it's the buildingawareness.
And this is where thatmindfulness comes in to check in
with myself and notice, oh, I'mconstricting my breath, right.
And so when we notice that,then we have a choice.
We can exhale slowly, we mightcheck in, I wonder what's
happening with me.
(14:27):
Again, ideally non-judgmentallythat's easier said than done
right.
But then maybe there's anexhale, slow exhale.
If we can stay with thatsensation enough, using maybe
it's reminders it could be amantra like it's okay, you're
okay the way you are, orwhatever the case may be,
whatever resonates, and thenreally breathing through it,
(14:49):
then we can get some newawareness.
You know what I can tighten,and then I can calm and soothe
myself and I'm going to be okayand get through this, and that
is a felt experience.
And then from that we makedifferent choices that aren't
habituated.
And so that's where themindfulness comes in.
It's really about, in themoment, recognizing whatever
signs that we're uncomfortable,whatever those signs are, and
(15:12):
then attending to that, eitherwith thought, like you got this
girl, we're going to be okay,you know, or like some kind of
practice, like exhaling slow orreorienting to like looking
around and noticing okay, I'msafe.
You know I might feel messyinside, but everything, there's
no threat here.
You know that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
If you keep just rushing past it and trying to
pretend that it's not there,it's going to keep coming back,
which is tough.
So it's good to kind of sitwith that discomfort, but
eventually you become you'reokay with it and you're able to
just move past it.
For a long time I felt like Iwas going to get judged for
(15:55):
keeping my former spouse's lastname, because it was the same
last name as my children and Iwanted to keep that.
And now it's so people are likeoh, are you related to
so-and-so?
I'm like, well, that's my ex'slast name, but there's no shame
with that anymore.
But that took a while, becausefor a long time I almost thought
(16:19):
I think I was judging myselffor having made that decision.
So there was some shame thatcame with having made that
decision.
But now it just doesn't botherme at all and I'm okay with my
decision and I live with it andit's fine.
But I think if I would havejust rushed past it and tried to
(16:40):
brush it away and you know, tryto cope by doing something that
wasn't good for me or whatnotLike it's not going to go away
and you're just going to keeptrying to skirt around it or
sweeping it away.
So it's just, it's not, it'snot good for you to not to not
deal with it and not be okaywith your decision, and you do
(17:03):
need to sit with that discomfortfor a little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yes, 100%, and it takes away the power of it too,
like you mentioned, right.
But when we try to get awayfrom it, it actually increases
the power it has over us,because now we're having to
avoid it too, you know, and soonce we can face it, then its
power tends to go away.
It doesn't have so much powerover us.
We could have freedom.
I will say that sometimes, if wehold a lot of shame, it can be
(17:27):
really hard to do that on ourown.
And that's where having a coachwho is very, you know, capable
of leading you the way throughthis or guiding from behind,
asking the right questions, or atherapist, you know, if there's
a lot of shame, and especiallyif it's tied to some trauma,
then a therapist might be thebetter choice to really help
(17:48):
work through whatever is stillholding you in a place where you
can't quite break free of thisdiscomfort, or the discomfort
feels like it's flooding, and sosometimes we can't do it alone.
And that's not a sign ofweakness, right, that's just a
sign that there's a lot therethat needs attending to.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
I've had a therapist through every single one of my
big life changes.
I've had therapists in betweenand I still have a therapist,
even though I'm feeling great.
I just think it's so importantto be able to talk to somebody
about what's happening and thenhaving somebody else give you
the words that you need tomanage your situation and to
(18:28):
manage your thoughts around it.
Yes, absolutely yeah, and somany of us.
We think that healing is thislike really neat kind of linear
line, but it's usually far fromthat right.
It's two steps forward, onestep back, a twirl and three
steps to the side.
So what are some of the waysthat you help people trust the
(18:51):
process when it feels reallymessy or feels like you're
backsliding sometimes?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yes, so it's really common for people when they are
experiencing some kind of whatfeels to them like a setback
right or like a regression, whatI do most of all is a lot of
educating people about this andnormalizing it.
So, for example, like success,like progress, it is in a
(19:17):
straight line and that is reallyimportant.
It's important that it not be,because the way that we learn,
the way that our brains learnand the way that our brains are
actually structured, is that weso if we think about the way
that we've known life to be, asa big worn trail, right, like it
is worn, it's been traveled byso many people, right and if we
(19:39):
think about it in terms of thetrail in the forest, in our
minds.
It's because we have traveleddown that path so many times,
right.
And so when we're creating atransformation, when we're
moving through something newright and we're trying to maybe
change, there's a lifestylechange or there's a new way that
we're relating to ourselves, ora new habit we're trying to
embrace, or even a loss.
(20:00):
Grief works the same way.
We are actually bushwhacking,so to speak, like we're creating
a new trail.
Right, we're creating a newpath.
Now, that path is not going tobe as traveled, so you're going
to.
When you get lost which youinevitably will, because life is
life and we're going to bestimulated by lots of different
(20:20):
things, or there might be thingsthat remind us or create
sadness or anxiety then we'reoff and then we're like lost, so
to speak, and we go and we, butthe easiest trail to find is
that well-worn one.
So we're going to go back,right?
But, every time we make, werealize, oh, I'm back, I'm back
in this, I'm back, you know, inthis place I'm feeling that
(20:42):
shame or self-criticism.
I'm I'm, whatever the case maybe, right, like I'm in this
well-worn way of being that Idon't want to be anymore.
We find our way back out.
Every time we find our way backout to that new path.
We're strengthening thatlearning.
It gets strong.
So it's important.
It's not that I would say go,try to have a setback.
You're going to naturally havesetbacks.
(21:04):
You don't have to try, but,like, every time, you do.
If you could see it as okay,here's another opportunity for
me to practice, okay, here'sanother opportunity for me to
practice.
And that is where that growthreally happens.
And what I'll say to people is,if you don't, if you have a
linear path, it's like somehowit's real, like shoot to the sky
, linear.
The first time you have asetback, you're sliding all the
way down.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
I'm like but if you're learning slowly through
regression.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
You're not going to slide all the way back down,
because you've practiced gettingback up, You've practiced
picking yourself up, findingyour way again right.
So it's really important.
And so that's kind of how Ieducate people around like and I
remind them and remind thembecause we need lots of
reminders that that is yourprocess and that is a process
that I absolutely trust andencourage other people to as
(21:48):
well.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I like your analogy of a path.
Right, You're bushwhacking yourway through and sometimes
you're going to go investigatethis blueberry bush over here.
You're going to go, you know,look, maybe there's something
really good and you're learningmore about yourself and the
different things that you mightlike.
So it's okay to kind of go offpath a little bit and see new
(22:10):
things and then go back and thenkeep moving forward.
But yeah, so if you do fallback, you've learned all these
other little things that are onthe path that you might have
enjoyed.
So it's yeah, it's never meantto be linear.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yes, and I so appreciate you mentioning that
too.
Yeah, because I think it'simportant to recognize all that
you've learned along the way andas you've kind of trailed off,
you know, like it's yeah, andclaiming that you have these new
tools, yeah, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
So when we were talking earlier, we were talking
about brain science.
So you've talked about how thenervous system can interpret
transformation as a threat.
So can you explain why changefeels so scary on a neurological
level and how neuroplasticityactually works in our favor
during times of transition?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yes, so going back to that same kind of piggybacking
off of that same idea around thetrails right, the well-worn
path, even if it's not thehealthiest right in terms of
where we want to be now, it is apath that our nervous system
and think primitive nervoussystem right understands as a
(23:23):
way that we've learned tosurvive.
Okay, so we know how to survivein this way.
Way that we've learned tosurvive, okay, so we know how to
survive in this way when we'reveering off, even if it's a good
new lifestyle shift, a goodsomething that is helpful for us
to embrace, that's healthy, aboundary that we're saying we're
learning to say no.
We've always said yes and thatno is really important, right?
(23:45):
The nervous system and this is alot depending each unique
person has their own set ofcircumstances and the ways that
they've coped right and managed.
Our nervous system perceivesthat as a departure from the way
we know how to survive, right,and so it kicks us into a lot of
times fight, flight, freeze.
There's a lot of sometimesfawning, you know.
(24:07):
So if I say, if I'm practicing,saying no, when I've always,
when I've learned to cope, is tosay yes, is to fawn and please
and right, then my nervoussystem is going to kick up like
oh you know, we're in, we're inbig trouble and our in our pride
and our primitive brain doesn'tdiscern somebody being
(24:28):
displeased.
We're tribal, we need to belongright as a species from.
We're going to be kicked out ofthe tribe and therefore we're
going to die.
You know, it does notdifferentiate in important ways.
And so when we notice thatresponse, that is a really
natural, healthy nervous systemletting you know hey, we don't
(24:51):
know how to survive this way,right, yeah.
And so that's again where thatmindfulness can come back into
play, like looking around andasking yourself and I do this
and it feels dumb every singletime.
But it's so important is, Iwill tell myself look around the
room, elizabeth, and see, isthere a train coming at you?
You know like, is theresomething?
And it sounds dumb.
Of course I know there's notright, but my primitive brain
(25:15):
needs to take in evidence thatI'm not in a dangerous situation
and once it does, it calms down.
It calms me down as we continueto get back on the new trail.
Bushwhack, get back on the newtrail.
That practicing we were talkingabout just a few minutes ago.
Our nervous system is learning.
Okay, we can survive this way,but it's not a radical shift,
(25:38):
right?
We have to learn that we cansurvive that way and that
learning is really healthy andit's a robust nervous system,
it's not a broken nervous system.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
You learn you can say no and you're not going to get
dumped, or you can say no andyou're not going to get fired.
And you know learning to say no.
In these low stake situations,like turning down a loyalty card
or something, you learn thatit's okay to say no and the
world's not going to comecrashing down.
So, I guess, learning to say noin low stake situations,
(26:10):
learning that everything isgoing to be okay, and then you
can start moving up to thingsthat are, you know, higher risk,
like turning down a workproject because you already have
too many things going on.
So, yeah, really important topractice saying no and to remind
yourself that you're going tobe okay.
There is no leopard chasing you.
(26:31):
I don't know what animals existin the prehistoric age A woolly
mammoth.
Right, you're not going to getkicked out of the tribe, you're
not going to die.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
But learning that you're going to be okay in these
situations that used to scareyou, yes, and honoring that on
some level, I think we think ofanxiety as bad, but honoring
like this is my nervous systemhaving a response and this is my
way of learning to.
This is my way of teaching mynervous system that we're going
(27:00):
to be okay.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
We need a certain amount of anxiety.
Anxiety is like a normal partof life.
It's what keeps us alive, andso we need a certain amount of
anxiety.
But too much anxiety can can bereally harmful, for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, so you've worked with lots of people who
are leaving toxic relationshipsand navigating tough challenges,
like you mentioned,co-parenting with a narcissist.
So what do you see as thebiggest hurdles there, and what
role do boundaries play inhelping to keep people safe?
Speaker 2 (27:51):
over backwards and trying to keep things copacetic.
You know there's usually somekind of message inside that's
saying either their needs aren'tvalid, their needs are harmful
like if they take care ofthemselves they're hurting
somebody else or that somehowthey need to sacrifice their own
well-being on behalf of.
And so one of the reallyimportant parts I think of
(28:13):
working with and helping supportsomebody who's leaving a toxic
relationship and I have lefttoxic relationships too, I
certainly know this from beingin it, know this from being in
(28:34):
it is to first of all reallygently remind them over and over
again that their needs matterand are valid and that they're
not responsible for someoneelse's reaction.
Right Like that is a tough one.
Usually we're in toxicrelationships because on some
level we've determined that thetoxicity is either something
that we can change, like ifwe're you know, or that if we
(28:55):
just do things right or goodenough that you know that
that'll make it help them beokay, and so that's where that
codependence can get really big.
There's a blurriness aroundwhat I do and how someone else
responds, how I respond andsomeone else responds.
So I think the first big partis like you get to have your
responses and your feelings andyour needs, and even if someone
(29:19):
else has a problem with it,that's their problem.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
That's something they need to deal with.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Yes, exactly, yeah, and so that's the biggest I
think the biggest one.
And then from there,forgiveness forgiveness to
themselves for betrayingthemselves, because a lot of
times they will feel shame thatthey are in that situation, that
they didn't see it, that ittook so long, and so a lot of
that forgiveness around there'sa reason that you're here or
(29:48):
that you were there and we canattend and have compassion for
you, right?
Speaker 1 (29:53):
And your choice.
You're not a bad person forsticking around in a
relationship that wasn't goodfor you.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Or for, you know, having bent over backwards just
to survive and to be in thisplace and it's easy to beat
yourself up for having stuckaround for as long as you did.
But having that space to bekind to yourself and to love
yourself and forgive yourselffor any of the decisions that
you may have made in that time,yes absolutely, it's so
(30:23):
important.
So important.
So we go through transitions inlife all the time, whether it's
marriages, jobs, getting newkids, and midlife and grief hold
such profound transitions.
So how do you see people startto integrate grief not just as
(30:45):
an ending, but also as a part ofyour transformation?
And what feels unique aboutmidlife shifts compared to
earlier ones?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yes.
So I think actually, both withgrief and loss and with midlife,
there's a lot of.
What I would say is that wedon't culturally, at least in
the United States, offer muchspace for these experiences to
be honored, and so there can bea sense of, in grief and loss, a
(31:15):
timetable, like I'm supposed toget on with it or I'm supposed
to grief.
This is what grief looks like,and grief can look very, very
different depending on theperson.
And then also, in terms ofmidlife, there's a sense of I
think you know there's.
We're such as we celebrateyouth in such like kind of
(31:39):
incredible ways.
The youth is beautiful, right?
I don't think it's the onlybeautiful life phase, and I find
I found elderly people gorgeous, you know.
But I think that societally,we're taught that beauty fades
and and we're taught to look fora very specific kind of beauty,
and so, and so I think in bothcases there can be a sense of
devaluing no-transcript yes,exactly Right and a recognition
(32:26):
of the finite, like this is notgoing to go on forever, you know
.
And so, and so I think what'swhat's really important in both
of these cases, in in, inmidlife, and in grief and loss
in general, is this idea thathow do we, how do we offer some,
on some level, honoring, andlike I would even say sacred
(32:48):
honoring to these passages.
And also that these passagesaren't a signif, they don't
signify that something is gone.
If we've lost a person, yes, ora pet, yes, they're gone, right
, in the sense of like they'renot, we're not communicating
with them in the same way andthat sort of thing, but really
(33:08):
honoring who they've been in ourlives and how they live, how we
can honor them still today,rather than get over it, and I
think, the same with midlife howdo I honor the life that it's
brought me here, the choicesI've made, right Even if there's
regret, and how do I integratethat going forward?
(33:32):
And so I think it also comesback to the discomfort of that.
So it's not always roses andlollipops right.
It's a lot of times thediscomfort, the pain and the
releasing of I wanted things tobe a certain way.
I wish things were differentand really allowing ourselves to
meet what is with compassionand honoring.
(33:54):
It's hard, hard edges sometimes.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
I don't know if I answered your question.
No, you did.
No, it was great.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, midlife definitely brings a lot of
changes and challenges and a lotof looking back on who you
thought you were going to be andwhat you wanted for yourself,
and then just sometimes maybefeeling like you weren't
successful because you didn'tachieve those things.
So there is a big transitionand there is some grief because
(34:24):
you are letting go of who youwere and who you thought you
were going to be.
And, yeah, I mean midlifecrisis is a thing, right, it
happens to a lot of us.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yes, and I think it is a crisis.
But the beauty of a it can feellike a crisis, but the beauty
of crisis and I tell this to myclients all the time is that
when we have a crisis, thingsare kicked up and it's so messy
and it's so uncomfortable andit's oh, who wants to be in a
crisis?
But things are.
I talk about it as a room likeimagine that all the furniture's
(34:55):
bolted down to the floor.
But now, in a crisis, it's notonly the bolts are off, it's
floating, like, oh, the couch isover there, you know.
And so now there is that roomto ask yourself where do I want
to put this?
You know it's been bolted.
I never even thought about itbecause it was always there.
Where do I actually want this?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Where do I want to put it?
Yes, where do I want this oldcouch?
Do I still want?
Speaker 2 (35:18):
this old couch.
Do I still want it?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
Yeah, I love that analogy.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
So I think of crises as also incredible, rich,
fertile times of opportunity.
No, I like that.
I'm going to use that someday.
So it's really important tohold space for ourselves and let
other people hold space for usas we go through these
transitions.
So for anybody who's used tocriticizing themselves all the
time, or some codependentpatterns that just aren't
serving them anymore, what wouldbe some of the first small
(35:51):
steps towards having, like, realcompassion for yourself?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah.
So I would say the very, veryfirst step is noticing that if
that's a struggle that you don't, because a lot of times what
will happen is that people willhave harsh thoughts, and it's
not a harsh thought, it's justthe way it is.
They're just being honest withthemselves, you know.
And so I think the first bigstep is recognizing no, actually
(36:18):
that is a critical thought.
That's really harsh.
Because when we can identify,when we're having those harsh
responses to ourselves, we openup the possibility for another
choice.
And then, once we've opened thepossibility for another choice,
the question then would bewhat's a way I could attend to
myself?
And that's going to bedifferent.
So for some people it might be.
(36:38):
I'm going to take a hand in myheart, feel my beating heart and
remember that I have a bigheart.
For some people it might bebreath, taking a deep breath.
For some people it might be ashift of the belief and
narrative.
Right, instead of callingmyself stupid, I'm going to say,
okay, I'm learning, you know,like.
So it depends on the person.
But the biggest step, biggeststep, is recognizing that you're
(37:00):
doing it and it's notnecessarily truth, and then and
then from there, opening thepossibility of another way.
But the recognition is soimportant because if we just
assume that it's the truth andthat's the way it is, it is so
hard to offer ourselvessomething else.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, and that comes from like having shame that
we've carried with us for areally long time, thinking that
we're a bad person or we're notworthy of you know, and it's
okay to make mistakes, it's okayto do these things.
I'm still a good person.
So being able to understand andvalue yourself enough to be
(37:38):
able to give yourself that spaceto forgive yourself and forgive
any of the decisions you'vemade and just be able to be okay
with who you are in this moment?
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yes, and a lot of times people will think that if
they do that, they're not goingto be holding themselves
accountable, when all of theresearch shows that actually
compassion leads to greateraccountability, because shame
tends to be circular.
Right, we're not good, so thenwe make decisions that reinforce
that we're not good, and youknow, and so and so once we can
really practice the compassion,we're actually shifting
(38:12):
ourselves and into more of anaccountability to to show up in
ways that are authentic and feelgood to us.
So it's, it's counterintuitiveA lot of people I get this a lot
that they think that if they'renot hard with themselves, they
won't shift.
And it's yeah, it's just not.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
It's just not, it's a myth.
Yeah, being hard on yourself isjust going to keep you stuck in
that bad place.
So, for people who are in thethick of transition right now,
what is one simple mindfulnesspractice that you could suggest
that they could try to helpground themselves?
Yeah, that they could try tohelp ground themselves.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yeah, so qigong is a form of moving meditation and it
derives from ancient Chinesemedicine.
And according to qigong andancient Chinese medicine, there
is a point in the bottom of ourfeet, kind of like in the palm
of your foot, just below sort of, where the I call it, like the
foot pad is just below that.
Okay, it's called the bubblingspring, okay, and this is a, and
(39:10):
the idea is that this is aplace where we can bring in
energy and grounding, and sowhat I would invite people to do
, if it resonates with them, isto put their feet on the ground
and then imagine that roots arecoming down from that area and
that kind of just think in themiddle of your foot, just to
make it simple, right, and thatfrom those roots that are
(39:31):
extending down, down, down intothe earth, you're bringing up
the nutrients and the water fromthat into your bubbling spring.
And so just sometimes justdoing a little visualization,
with the feeling that has thesensory part of feeling your
feet on the ground, but thenalso the imagery of like
grounding down, and you canimagine as you add breath to it,
(39:54):
as you exhale, you ground, asyou inhale, you receive.
That's one way.
If that's too much, then what Iwould say is just take a moment
and check in with if you want tocheck in with, if you're visual
, check in with what's aroundyou.
Just notice what's there.
Come back to the moment.
The moment is safe.
If it's not safe, then that'ssomething to pay attention to
(40:18):
yeah, yeah.
But usually the moment's safe.
Or check in with your hearing.
Just one thing you hear, right,Just bringing the sensory back
in can really help withoverwhelm.
So I'm adding more than one,but just I would say.
Anything that helps bring youback into the moment can be
grounding.
Gratitude can be grounding.
Anything that brings you backinto what do I have right now?
(40:41):
What is the safety that I cannotice?
Speaker 1 (40:52):
sure, yeah, no, I I love that.
I often step outside and I'lllook for three things that I can
see, what are three things thatI can hear, what are three
things that I feel on my body,whether it's my shirt touching
my skin or whatnot, just kind ofgetting back into that, that
moment, and just realizing I'msafe.
Right now I I might be worryingabout this one thing, but right
now, in this moment, there isnothing wrong with me and I'm in
a safe place and I can worryabout whatever it is that's
(41:14):
bothering me later.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yes, and another, just quick tip, in case it's
helpful to anybody.
So pinpointing those things isawesome, pinpointing those
things is awesome.
And then another tool is then,once you do that and you
recognize your safety,unfocusing.
And so, because we tend tolaser focus when we're nervous
(41:38):
or stressed, and so then, oncewe've identified, okay, here are
three things I can all you know, I can see, I can hear then
unfocusing and bringing in thewhole panorama of your vision,
or the peripheral periphery ofyour vision, can also help send
signals to your brain that thecoast is clear and we're okay.
So that's just real easy stuffthat you can do to navigate over
(42:01):
mom.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, amazing.
So before we close, can youtell us about your podcast and
where people can connect withyou?
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Yes, so you can find the Calming Ground podcast.
Anywhere you get your podcastsUsually that's Spotify, apple
and that is a podcast that justhas this kind of thing Very
similar, like just reallyhelping people anchor back.
I bring in some of the ancientChinese wisdom, because that's
something that I know a lotabout, but then also just
(42:33):
different ways that we mightreframe or reflect or come back
into our center and find thecalm.
Where I offer coaching there'sgroup coaching, one-on-one
coaching.
I have a bunch of differentfreebies there too.
I'm in different resources thatcan help, again just inviting
(42:54):
people to come back into theirown calming ground.
I believe we all have thatground within us, and so it's
just about reconnecting with ourown calm.
So I met my website and youwere mentioning there's a.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
there's a freebie for for any of the listeners here.
It's a morning ritual, is thatcorrect?
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Yes and um, I that one is the most popular um gift
that I offer out.
Um, and I think just thestarting our day with intention
and some practices can make ahuge difference.
Um, and also it's.
I think what I find is thatit's easier for people to
remember to come back to themwhen they have a routine of
starting with those practicesand so then when they need them
(43:34):
they can just pull themthroughout the day.
Man, I'm stressed, let me justdo this little five-minute,
three-minute, whatever I needpractice to kind of recenter
myself, and so, yeah, anybody'swelcome to check that out.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
I'm going to be downloading that real quick
myself, and so, yeah, anybody'swelcome to check that out.
I'm going to be downloading thatreally quick.
I think it'll be.
I think it'll be great,elizabeth, thank you.
Thank you for for being heretoday, and I really appreciate
that you've shared both yourexpertise and your personal
experience.
It's made this conversation sogrounded and relatable for a lot
of people.
I know my listeners are goingto take a lot of comfort and
encouragement from everythingthat you've shared, and it's
(44:08):
been a real gift having you onthe show.
And, for those of you who arelistening, if you want to hear
more from Elizabeth, make surethat you check out her podcast,
the Calming Ground, to learnmore about all the work that she
does, and I'm going to linkeverything in the show notes so
that you're able to connect withher really easily.
Thank you, everyone for hangingout with us today.
If you liked the episode, I'dlove it if you would share it
with someone who needs to hearit and heck, share it with the
(44:30):
whole world.
I'd love for more people outthere to benefit from Elizabeth
and her words.
So I'd also appreciate it ifyou would be so kind as to
follow me and maybe leave acomment.
I'm most active on Facebook atthe Codependent Doctor, and
Instagram at drangelela downey.
I wish you all a great week asyou learn to foster a better
relationship with the mostimportant person in your life
(44:51):
yourself.
I'm going to talk to you againin two weeks.
Take care for now you've gotthis.
Thanks for spending time withme today.
I hope something in thisepisode resonated with you.
If it did hit, follow,subscribe or share it with
someone who needs to hear ittoday.
The codependent doctor is notmedical advice and doesn't
replace speaking to yourhealthcare provider.
(45:11):
If you're in a crisis, pleasego to the nearest ER or call 911
or reach out to your localmental health helpline.
I'll be back here next weekwith more support stories and
strategies, because we'rehealing together.
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