September 29, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode, I sit down with Michelle Butt, founder of Face Talk™ and expert in Facial Intelligence, to explore how our facial features can act as a mirror to the mind and spirit. Michelle shares how understanding our own face can reveal patterns, improve communication, and help us break free from cycles of people-pleasing and conflict. It’s a powerful conversation about stepping into self-awareness, connection, and personal power.
Connect with Michelle on Instagram @michellembutt, on Facebook at Michelle Butt Facial Intelligence Expert, at www.atfacevalu.com, or through her free Reflection Masterclass. She has also shared the link to her book: Face Talk.
I am a proud affiliate partner with Amazon. When you purchase my books I will receive a commission at no cost to you. Enjoy!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Today's episode is all about something you probably
haven't thought much about, yourface.
And I don't mean in the do Ispinach in my teeth kind of way,
but in the sense that your faceactually holds clues to how you
communicate, connect, and evenrepeat patterns in your
relationships.
We're diving into thefascinating world of facial
intelligence, how our featurescan act like a mirror, showing
(00:23):
us not just who we are, but howwe show up for others.
And if you've ever struggledwith people pleasing, conflict,
or feeling like you loseyourself in relationships, this
conversation is gonna give you awhole new perspective on those
patterns, where they come from,and how to shift them.
So stick around because by theend, you'll have a powerful new
tool to understand yourself moredeeply and maybe even spot the
(00:45):
keys to connection and conflictresolution right in your own
reflection.
So grab yourself a cup ofcoffee, have a seat, and stick
with us.
This is gonna be a good one.
Welcome to the CodependentDoctor, a podcast where we
unpack the messy, beautifuljourney of healing from
codependency.
If you're burned out from peoplepleasing, stuck in unhealthy
patterns, or just tired ofputting yourself last, you're in
(01:06):
the right place.
I'm Dr.
Angela Downey, a family doctorand fellow codependent, and I'm
here to help you reconnect toyour authentic self, one honest
conversation at a time.
Here we go.
Hello to all my wonderfulpodcast listeners, and welcome
to the 58th episode of theCodependent Doctor.
I'm your host, Dr.
Angela Downey, a family doctorand fellow codependent, who's
(01:29):
here to help us untangle ourpatterns, heal our hearts, and
reclaim our peace.
For today's episode, we have aguest with us.
Michelle Butt is a facialintelligence expert and founder
of FaceTalk.
With training in Chinese facereading, linguistics, and
philosophy, she created a systemthat helps coaches, healers, and
leaders decode facial featuresto spark breakthroughs, deepen
(01:52):
relationships, and createlasting change.
I'm really excited to haveMichelle on the show because
what she teaches us is sodifferent from anything we've
talked about before.
The idea that our face canactually give you insight into
your patterns, your power, andeven how you connect with other
people.
This feels like a totally newdoorway into self-awareness and
(02:13):
healing.
I can't wait for you to hear hertake on this.
Welcome, Michelle.
I'm so glad that you're able tojoin us today.
How are you?
I'm doing really well.
How are you?
Good, good.
I hear you're in Canada justlike me.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
I am, yeah.
I'm in Ontario.
SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
That's amazing.
Enjoying the summer while wecan.
SPEAKER_00 (02:32):
Exactly.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
Michelle, one of my traditions on the show is that
we discuss what we're gratefulfor because when we stop to
think about what we're gratefulfor, it helps our brains focus
on what's working instead ofwhat's missing or what's broken.
So I'd like to ask, is thereanything that you're grateful
for today?
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I am grateful for in thismoment, this beautiful space
that I'm in.
We've spent the last two yearsbuilding a house that is our
second home.
And um, it's finally done.
So we get to spend some timehere, and it just feels amazing.
So I'm very grateful for that.
SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
It's nice when the work is finally done and you
actually get to appreciate itinstead of just worrying about
and paint swatches and thingslike that.
So uh for me, I'm reallygrateful.
I've got this great group of uhfriends, and I'm super
introverted, and but my partneris more on the extroverted side,
and she's got these greatfriends who she's been meeting
(03:34):
with regularly, and now she'sbrought me into that fold.
So I'm loving all the greatpeople that I've gotten to meet,
and we still get together everymonth, rain or shine, and we
just got together this weekend,and I'm really grateful for all
the new people I've met, andshe's really kind of gotten me
out of my shell because I wouldrather just kind of sit at home
in my bathrobe, to be honestwith you.
And uh, so it's nice being ableto get out there and and and to
(03:56):
meet people and and to havegreat friends.
And for all of you who arelistening out there today, what
are you grateful for?
I'd love to know.
You can reach me on Facebook atthe Codependent Doctor or
Instagram at dr Angela Downey.
So, Michelle, I'd like to startwith your story.
How did you first get introducedto Chinese face reading and
(04:17):
communication science?
And what inspired you to blendthose into what you now call
facial intelligence?
SPEAKER_00 (04:24):
That's a great place to start.
I left corporate uh managementfor a few years to have a bunch
of kids.
And when I was deciding to goback to work, I wanted to go
into that leadership mentorshipspace, but not go back to the
corporate grind.
So I did a bunch of NLP andcoaching courses and thought,
(04:45):
okay, I'm gonna be a coachbecause people came to me
anyway.
And as I started to have thatjourney of coaching, at the same
time, things weren't necessarilyworking in my marriage.
So I thought, okay, there'sgotta be something that I can do
better around seeing what peoplewant me to know but aren't able
(05:06):
to tell me because I was workingwith clients and they would come
back session after session andkind of still be in the same
place.
And I'm like, we're not gettingto it.
And I have all these great toolsthat I was trained with and paid
for, and they're not working.
So I went on a search to try andfind the thing that would work
for me.
And I happened upon a book onChinese face reading, picked it
(05:29):
up, took it home, read it fromcover to cover, and then I
thought, oh my god, there'ssomething to this, but it's a
little ancient, it's a littlewoo-woo.
I don't know if this is gonnawork.
And then a client walked into myoffice who'd been struggling
with anxiety and a whole bunchof things, and I just took one
look at her face, and I said toher, We're gonna do something
(05:51):
different today.
I'm gonna tell you what yourface is telling me because I
think this is the actual root ofyour problem.
And um, she had this nose thatsaid everything about the
anxiety and everything about theway that she was doing her life,
and from there actually able tofigure out the problem, which
maybe we can chat about later aswe talk more about this work.
(06:15):
But that started a whole changein her life.
She changed career, she starteda new job, she started working
for herself, she wrote a book,she had a couple of kids, met
the love of her life, and allbecause she finally knew who she
was and how she could do lifeaccording to her design as
opposed to haphazardly.
And that made me say, okay,there's something to this, but
(06:37):
we're not living in ancientChina.
So, how do we modernize the workto meet modern day problems?
And that's where facialintelligence came into play
because I had a degree inlinguistics and communication,
so I layered in those strategieswith the face reading part and
started facial intelligence.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Okay, so this was news to me.
I'd never heard of this before.
So, listeners who might behearing about this for the first
time, what exactly is facialintelligence and how different
is it from just readingexpressions or body language?
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Right.
So it's very different fromexpressions in body language,
although that is actually alayer in the advanced facial
intelligence work.
But really, what it is is it'slooking at the features,
markings, and wrinkles on ourfaces to understand our
personality, our health, the wayour emotions, the way we access
(07:31):
our emotions.
It's all about a personalityblueprint that is part of your
innate design.
So the features that you're bornwith and that you grow into, but
then also how you're actuallydoing life in accordance with or
in opposition to that innatedesign by way of scars,
wrinkles, changes in features tounderstand who someone is, how
(07:55):
they connect, how theycommunicate, how they do life.
So it's more than just saying,Oh, did you just lie to me?
It's oh, okay.
What does that expression meanwhen you make it?
SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
So, like you've said that the face is it's like a
mirror to the mind and thespirit.
So, can you walk us through howsomeone might begin to read
their own face to betterunderstand themselves?
SPEAKER_00 (08:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So there's four main things thatany feature on the face can tell
you.
Um, so one is where the workoriginally began, is it's a
potential for a health marker.
So face reading began in ancientChina as a diagnostic tool for
(08:39):
health.
And as the ancient doctorsstarted seeing, oh, okay, we can
map each area of the face to themeridians in the body.
So if anybody's ever hadacupuncture, you know that all
those meridian points weremapped out thousands of years
ago.
And they all kind of culminatein the face.
So the face maps to the liver,the kidney, all the systems.
(09:04):
And so any feature can tell yousomething about the state of
those health markers.
It can tell you about thepersonality and emotional set
points of someone, it can tellyou something about their time
of life.
So there's a spot on the facefor each year from one to 100.
So you can kind of map, oh,where did that scar when when
(09:27):
you got that scar?
Where is it marking?
What do those two times have todo with where you're at right
now?
And it also has each featuresays something about our
intuition.
So the type of intuition we haveand that we have access to to
help us discern the intangiblesin life.
So that's all the informationthat we get from like each
(09:51):
feature.
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
So is this like saying, oh, you've got you know
crow's feet, you've got allthese lines around your eyes,
you must be like a really happyperson because now you're
smiling a whole lot.
Is that what you're talkingabout?
Or is it like my nose is reallybig, therefore my liver must not
be working properly?
Like struggling to understandexactly how this works.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
It's both.
So these are joy lines in facialpolitics, right?
So you're exactly right.
If you have them in abundance,then that usually means you
smile a lot, a genuine smile.
So those are the wrinkles thatwe like to see on faces and hope
people never ever get rid of.
Um, but it also speaks to likethe nose.
(10:36):
So, for example, in that exampleI gave with my client, a
prominent nose is one of thefeatures that speaks to how much
of a perfectionist we are, howmuch we pay attention to detail,
how much control we need, withthe intention of paying
(10:57):
attention to all those littlethings because we want to create
beautiful experiences for otherpeople.
The intuition that's associatedwith that is a strong sense of
spatial energy.
So in her case, or do you wantgo ahead, ask the question.
SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
No, I was gonna say, like, isn't this just the nose
that I was born with?
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
It can be, yes, but that nose that you're born with
says something about how you dothe world from the perspective
of how much you pay attention todetail, how much perfectionism
comes into play in all thethings you do.
Uh whether you're here to createbeautiful experiences for people
(11:38):
or you're here to nurture andhug them, because those are two
very different things, eventhough they both mean that
someone may have a beautifulexperience in your presence.
The nose will indicate howperfect you make it, so how it
looks and feels, and the hugwill indicate how you touch
somebody's.
SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
I suddenly feel the need to hide my nose.
Yeah, no, you have a beautifulnose.
Thank you.
So by my nose, can you tell thatI'm like a people pleaser and a
perfectionist and a bit of acontrol freak?
Are you able to see that?
Is that what you're saying thatyou are?
SPEAKER_00 (12:18):
Yeah, I can be for sure.
Yeah, well, you know what?
I honestly I'm not seeing thatcoming from your nose
necessarily.
Your nose says to me that youcare about the experience people
have with you.
So it's about the experiencethat people have with you, not
(12:39):
necessarily that the environmentis perfect.
It's like, okay, am I touchingtheir heart?
And I think the if you are aperfectionist, it's not coming
from the same energy, it'scoming from a different place.
So this is what the featureswill tell us.
Perfectionism from the place ofa nose, which is part of the
(13:02):
royal archetype, is about makingsure that the energy feels right
so that people walk into a roomand they can feel it.
And it's also about the personwho owns the nose being in
control of the energy so thatthey can take a full breath in
the room and feel really goodand safe.
(13:22):
And whereas perfectionism, ifyou describe yourself as a
perfectionist and you don't havelots of royal features, then
potentially it's coming from adifferent motivator.
And that's kind of the beauty ofthe work is figuring out the
motivators by way of the face.
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
Yeah, no, there's a lot of information.
So it's not just clear cut, thisis your nose, this is your
personality type.
There's a lot of otherinformation that that comes into
play when trying to figure outwhat's happening.
SPEAKER_00 (13:54):
Right, because we all have noses, but we have it
on different bases.
So each nose means something,but it's unique in the way it's
combined with all the otherfeatures on each face.
SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
So a lot of my listeners, they struggle with
people pleasing, overgiving, andlosing themselves in
relationships, as I did for avery long time.
How can understanding your ownface or even noticing features
in other people, how can thathelp create healthier conditions
for us?
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
So I think it's important to understand first
what your face says, and thenwhen you know what how to read a
face, then you can see whatother people's faces about are
saying about their experienceand their experience with you.
But I think that each of us canbe a people pleaser or stay in
(14:43):
relationships that don't serveus for different reasons based
on our faces.
So if we were to use your faceas an example, if you're okay
with that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
Please please do.
I'm afraid to ask, but yes, I'msuper curious.
SPEAKER_00 (14:59):
Okay, so the way that we read a face typically is
I will look at first what's thething that's just kind of
blinking at me, like giving methis blinking light, saying,
Hey, look at me, I've gotsomething to tell you about this
person.
So one of the first things Inotice about you is that
beautiful curly hair and thebright sparkly eyes.
(15:20):
So those two features in and ofthemselves fall under the
archetype of the captivator.
And one of the things that thecaptivator uh struggles with is
an interesting thing because youwere saying, Oh, I'm so
introverted, I don't like to goout.
But part of that is because acaptivator feels everything.
(15:44):
They feel people, they are theempaths.
So I know we use empath a lot asa buzzword, but captivators,
still curly hair, bright sparklyeyes, really are true empaths.
They feel with their heart andthey feel the emotions of other
people.
So even though they're meant tobe out there, because
captivators are supposed to bein the spotlight, they may shy
(16:04):
away from the spotlight becauseof the empathic overwhelm of
being around a lot of people.
And so when you can feel peopleand you feel that they're sad,
you feel that they're upset, asa heart-centered being with all
that captivator energy, you'regoing to want to help them.
You're going to want to dosomething for them.
(16:26):
And so then you end up pleasingthem and depleting yourself when
you don't know how to have thoseboundaries of, okay, this isn't
mine, it's not mine to take,it's not mine to carry.
It belongs to them.
But they're letting that you canfeel it, learn to feel it and
say, Okay, I feel that emotionfrom you.
I don't need to take it fromyou.
I'm just here to recognize itand see you.
(16:49):
Not, I'm not the purposecatalyst to your healing all the
time.
And so that can causecodependency because of your
face.
Just those two features isprobably a big key to that.
Now, people who aren'tcaptivators can also be
codependent based on their otherfeatures.
(17:09):
The other thing that I see isthat you have this beautiful,
nice, round, full face, which isvery much a nurturer.
And so, nurturers, that's one ofthe archetypes, they are the
ones who take care of otherpeople.
So, not from the heart-centeredspace, but from the that kind of
mother energy space where I makesure all your needs are met, I,
(17:34):
you know, feed you, and I makesure your clothes are out, and I
make sure there's so the takingcare of.
And often nurturers canovergive, not receive enough.
And then when they don't get thefeedback they need to reassure
them that they are givingenough, they will do more and
more and more and and loseconfidence in themselves because
(17:57):
they're like, Well, this personstill isn't happy, and I'm
cooking for them and I'mcleaning for them, and I'm doing
all these things, and they'restill not happy.
Must be me.
Because that's the mentality andthe programming of a nurturer.
So when you understand that,then you can be like, okay, I
don't have to overgive, or allthe other strategies that come
(18:18):
with now recognizing who you areand how you do the world, that
your face is trying to help youunderstand every time you look
in the mirror.
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
Yeah, you've hit the nail right on the head.
Like anyone who's listened to mypodcast knows I don't like to
cook or clean, but there aremany other ways that I tend to
nurture and and kind ofovergive.
Um, but that that's interestingthat you could say that just
from curly hair, sparkly eyes,and a round face.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, and I think that'sthe thing too.
Nurturing means taking care ofpeople, and that means
anticipating their needs,knowing their needs.
So it also means feeding them,but that means feeding their
soul, feeding their heart,feeding so it, you know, it
doesn't have to be as literal ascooking.
It can be, I'm the one that willsit down and have a cup of tea
(19:07):
with you and give you the hug.
And, you know, if you needsomething, I'm right there, that
kind of person.
SPEAKER_01 (19:13):
Very cool.
I love that.
Um, and yeah, feel free to tellme anything about my face.
I'm pretty open on the podcast.
So I appreciate that.
Um, so you mentioned that thereuh when we were talking earlier,
you mentioned that there was onefeature that's especially
important when it comes toconnection and conflict
resolution.
Can you share what that is andhow we can use that knowledge
every day?
SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
So the one that I think is mostimportant for that, and that I I
use it because it's easy torecognize and um although like
with my glasses, it's harder tosee today, but are the eyebrows.
So one of the things that theeyebrows reveal to us is what
(19:55):
type of a decision makersomebody is.
So depending on the shape andthe thickness of the eyebrows,
you can discern what people takeinto account when they're making
a decision.
So, for example, my eyebrows arepretty straight.
So, for the most part, um I lookat things from a logical
(20:20):
perspective.
So, eyebrows are aboutconfidence and logic and
strategy and all of thosethings.
So, when I'm making a decision,for the most part, it has to
make sense to me first.
So give me the A B C's, do it ina direct linear way, and if it
works in my brain, then I willsay yes.
(20:40):
Now you have um slightly morerounded eyebrows, and I know we
manipulate our eyebrows, so youkind of go with you look for the
natural shape, but then you alsotake into account, if you change
the shape, what that how that isinfluencing your innate
decision-making positioning.
(21:00):
But um, assuming that's yourinnate shape, rounded, then that
means that although you valuelogic because the eyebrows are
about logic, you take apeople-centered approach to your
decision making.
So that means that even if Igave you all the ABCs, if I
(21:20):
didn't tell you how it would begood for the people in your life
that are going to be influencedby that decision, it would still
be harder for you to say yesuntil that was taken into
account because it's importantto you to consider everyone, not
just your own perspective.
Does that resonate with you?
SPEAKER_01 (21:39):
Yeah.
Does that does that changeanything when it comes to
conflict and trying tocommunicate in people with
people in everyday life?
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
Yes, I think it does because often conflict leads
from a missed communication andthen a misunderstanding.
So if I just say to you, heyAngela, we we need to go to the
grocery and do this and do thisand do this, okay, are you
coming?
And everything makes sense, it'sall in a line, and you're like,
(22:05):
wait, no, I'm not sure.
Then I can be like, Well, what'sso hard about that?
And we can start a bigdiscussion around it because I'm
thinking, I just told you thatwe're gonna get all these things
done and it's only gonna take anhour.
And you're thinking, but whatabout the puppy that's gonna be
left alone for and so I didn'ttake that into account, and so
(22:28):
then you're thinking, but you'renot seeing all the things that
are outside of that list, so youknow, and then uh there's the
peaky kind of eyebrows, youknow, the ones like the
Kardashians have with the allalmost like an upside-down V.
Those people, especially ifthey're naturally shaped that
way, they're really quickdecision makers.
(22:48):
So they can make a decision onthe fly, but people with your
eyebrows or my eyebrows, we needa little bit more time to go
through what's important to us.
And so often in con, like inconversation and communication,
if I had peaky eyebrows, I'd belike, okay, just make a decision
now.
And you're like, but wait, Ineed to.
And so then if I have peakyeyebrows and you have rounded
(23:12):
eyebrows, I need to know.
I need to give you a little bitmore time and talk about the
people because I've already madeup my mind, but you don't think
that way and you don't work thatway.
SPEAKER_01 (23:21):
So you're saying it just kind of helps you
understand where the otherperson's coming from and what
their natural tendencies anddecision making are.
SPEAKER_00 (23:28):
Right.
And what they need from you inorder to get on board with you.
Because often then, when wedon't meet the needs of the
other person in a way that ishonors who they are, then they
are less apt to want to honorwhat we want.
And then it just becomes abattle of wills or a battle of
dominance or control as opposedto a coming together of
(23:51):
understanding.
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
I have one eyebrow that's different than the other.
One goes up higher than theother.
So I have to kind of like pushmy eyebrows down on one side,
lift them up on the other sothat they're a little bit more
even.
And I don't know.
Sometimes I wonder if that justmakes me look like I'm
questioning things.
I I don't know if that meansanything.
SPEAKER_00 (24:09):
What side is the one that's higher?
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
So it's the one on the left side is is higher than
than the right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
Right.
So in facial intelligence, theleft side of our face is about
our private life, our personallife, and the right side of our
face is about our public life.
So if that eyebrow is higher onthe left, which is your private
(24:39):
life, then what that says to me,so the positioning of the
eyebrows can sometimes um willindicate that perfectionism,
kind of royal aspect that youmay have.
So that eyebrow says in yourpersonal life, you have high
(24:59):
standards, you uh really careabout the experiences that other
people have with you, that youhold yourself to high standards
and you hold other people tohigh standards, and you really
want to create those beautifulexperiences for the people who
are closer to you.
It's more important necessarilythan in your public life.
In your public life, you can beless less rigid, a little bit
(25:25):
more um open because yourprivate life has higher stakes
for you.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
Yeah, I agree.
That's I didn't know if therewas any significance to that,
but you're very correct in whatyou've said.
SPEAKER_00 (25:37):
Oh, that's great.
Thank you for validating thatfor me.
And you know, the thing is too,this this may come from
experiences over time, like youwere saying, like, oh, maybe you
raise that one eyebrow more aspart of the experiences that
you've had.
So if you are one who didn'thold your standards in previous
(26:01):
relationships because of thatcaptivator nature and stuff that
made you give in to other peoplemore, now looking in the mirror,
you see that higher eyebrowevery day.
So your system is saying, hey,remember, we've got really high
standards in our personalrelationships.
We're not going to allow that tohappen anymore.
And so your face has molded intoa way that when you look in the
(26:23):
mirror, the unconscious facereader in you is saying, Oh,
yeah, this is really importantin our private life.
We don't want to get to thatplace where we feel the way we
used to feel.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Very interesting.
I don't think I'll ever be ableto look at my eyebrows the same
way.
That's my intention.
That's great.
Thank you for that.
So in codependency, people oftenfeel stuck repeating the same
relationship dynamics.
So, how can facial intelligencehelp someone recognize those
patterns and begin to shiftthem?
SPEAKER_00 (26:53):
Yeah, well, I think we've talked a little bit about
it by using you as a beautifulmodel and reference.
So thank you for that.
But I think part of it is whenyou begin to know who you are
and you know how your faces mapto the behaviors of the
archetypes, then you know, okay,as a nurturer, for example, my
intention is to give and supportand take care of other people.
(27:18):
When I get out of balance, I'movergiving and I'm
over-supporting, and then I loseconfidence.
So I have to know how to, I haveto learn how to not let that
happen because that is the way Ilose my power.
And part of that is thenknowing, okay, when a nurturer
energy is depleted, what fillsthat cup back up?
(27:41):
It's things like reassurance andgratitude and being able to ask
for help.
It's knowing that some thingsyour partner might not be able
to give to you, but you might beable to get elsewhere.
So, for example, if a nurtureris with a partner that is very
captivator, so I'm only usingthose because we can see that in
(28:03):
your face.
So that captivator may need allthe attention they because
oftentimes an out-of-balancecaptivator will either be the
complete introvert or the onewho sucks all the energy out of
the room because it always hasto be about them.
And so that nurturer may not getthe attention they need from the
captivator, because thecaptivator will always turn
(28:24):
something around and make itabout them.
So if you said, Oh, I'm reallytired, you're tired.
Well, I'm tired too, and youknow, it'll always turn around.
So where do you go?
Then you know, okay, I may lovemy partner, but I don't get that
from them.
So I'll go to my best friend andsay, I just need to have a cup
of tea and talk about my day.
Is that okay?
(28:45):
And get the filling of their cupin the appropriate place without
asking the partner to change orresenting them until they're
able to be healed enough to seeyou as well.
So knowing who you are by way ofyour face allows you to take
some power back in knowing whatsigns of the depletion really
(29:08):
are.
And that's just one strategy,but uh how to use the right
strategies to fill you back upto the best energetic version of
yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (29:17):
At the beginning of the interview, you mentioned
that you had a patient who camein, she had severe anxiety, and
I think it was the nose that youlooked at and you thought we
need to kind of take a differentdirection.
So, what was it about thatperson and and and the nose that
kind of make you made you changedirections and focus on
something else?
And how did you go about doingthat?
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
Yeah, so one of the tools that I was taught in my
coaching practice was that youjust keep asking the same
question to the client.
You keep saying, How is that aproblem?
And how is that a problem?
And how is that a problem?
Until they eventually come to ananswer that is a universal core
wound for everybody.
And that just didn't seem to beworking.
(30:00):
So I was like, well, why isn'tthis working?
And then when I started readingthese face reading books and
started studying with a mentor,when that client walked into my
office, what I noticed was thatshe had a very royal nose.
So it's a prominent nose, but italso had a little bump in it.
(30:20):
It was perfect for her face.
But what that nose meant wasthat she was very royal.
And part of the characteristicsof the royal archetype are being
really detail-oriented, wantingto create beautiful experiences
for other people, beingperfectionistic, everything
looking perfect on the outside,but like the junk drawer in the
(30:44):
house, it's a mess on theinside.
That was who she was.
And what she was how what sheworked at was that she was a
hairstylist in a very busy, veryhigh standard salon.
So here she is doing all ofthese things, but feeling very
anxious at the end of the dayand feeling like there she she
(31:07):
couldn't do enough.
Well, the other side of a royalis an extremely sensitive
intuition.
So it's an environmentalsensitivity.
So being able to walk into aroom and just feel the space,
knowing if you know the plantover there has been moved five
(31:27):
millimeters by somebody elseovernight, um, knowing how
everything feels all the time.
And that is a gift of a royalbecause that allows them to
create a beautiful experienceenergetically, but it can be so
overwhelming, especially whenyou're touching people or people
(31:49):
are coming and going, and thewhole thing all day long is
about perfectionism and energy,and people are relying on you to
feel good all the time, just bythe nature of you know, they
come in looking one way and theywant to leave feeling.
So her big problem was theenergetic overwhelm of her job
(32:11):
and of her own desire to be asperfect as she could be as a
royal.
So once we I got that, becausethat's what her nose said, then
she was able to say, Oh my god,that is how I feel.
Like I walk into this space andI automatically feel drained,
and I didn't even know what thatwas all about.
(32:32):
So we began, and she neverthought about energy that way,
and never thought about any ofthat.
So after that, she started herown journey.
So she left the salon andcreated a salon in her home
where she controlled the energy,she controlled how many people
came in, only took her ownclients, and then went on to
(32:52):
study yoga and Reiki to learnhow to take better control of
her energetic sensitivity inorder to live more fulfilled in
the world rather than drainedall the time.
And now that's what she does.
She she is a Reiki master andshe's written a book and she
teaches other people energymanagement because that's been
(33:14):
her biggest issue her whole lifewas managing the energy in the
spaces around.
And we wouldn't have gottenthere if I didn't see it in her
nose.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
And out of all the people that you've worked with,
is this like the most powerfultransformation story that you've
experienced?
SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
I think that is one that's very memorable to me
because that was the moment whenI realized, okay, this work is
important.
This work helps people seethemselves and it it can change
the way they do life.
Um, but I think most recently,um, I had a client who came to
(33:50):
me and she just said, you knowwhat, I'm just doing this
because I saw you do a talk onceand and I think I'm done.
Like, I think there's nothingleft for me in life.
Like, I'm done.
She was just like, I have mykids are grown, she was
divorced, I had enough money tolive the rest of her life
without doing whatever anything,and she was just, I think I'm
(34:13):
done.
SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
And I was suicidal done, or just yeah, or that and
yes, that, or it's okay if Idied tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00 (34:23):
It would be okay.
Um and but I said, Well, youcan't be done because you're
here.
So what do you need to see?
And what she was really donewith was identifying with all
the things in her past thatweren't allowing her to find the
next great thing in her life.
(34:44):
And so, you know, one of herthings on her face that we saw
or that I saw was she had thisum I don't know if people I
don't have it, but a line here.
Have you ever seen that wherepeople have a line there?
SPEAKER_01 (34:57):
I don't know if you just kind of the the bridge, the
bridge of the nose between theeyes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:02):
Yeah, and it was really prominent.
Um, and that often indicates.
So I talk about three things,right?
It can indicate um potentialstomach issues because it's part
of the nurture meridians, it canindicate um a break with life,
(35:23):
uh a big life change at the endof the 30s into the 40s, or it
can indicate mother issues.
It's often the first indicatorof issues with mother issues,
and she had digestive issues.
She got divorced shortly afterher 40s and huge mother issues
(35:46):
in her life that were now thatshe was no longer like she was
an empty nester, in essence,both of her children had gone on
and started living their ownlives.
Those mother issues really cameto the surface because she
couldn't transmute that into herown mothering journey, which
helped her to say, okay, well,I'm being a good mother, I'm
(36:06):
being a better mother than mymom.
Now she had to deal with whathad driven her her whole life as
an adult, which was a I'm not mymom, to okay, then who am I now?
And that's what we began to workthrough.
And she found her own way, andshe's an incredible intuitive
(36:29):
channeler, which we didn't shewas not putting out into the
world.
And so we still work togethertoday, and she's so different.
Like if you saw her face fromthen to now, like 18 months ago,
the changes are incredible.
And you know, the changes in herface are a byproduct of the work
she's done because now her facecan't must reflect to her who
(36:51):
she really is inside, not theparts that she didn't want to
see anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
When you say that there's been a change in her
face, that line at the at thebridge of the nose between the
eyes is still there.
SPEAKER_00 (37:02):
Or is it there?
It's there, it's less.
So sometimes they disappear, um,but it's definitely less, which
means that you know, I often saythat the face is is telling the
story of you.
So that trauma with her motherwill always be part of her
story, but it doesn't have to bethe one that's blinking all the
(37:24):
time at you in the first thingyou see.
So it's definitely gone down.
And she hasn't seen her motherin, I don't know, 10 years.
And she's taking a trip to gosee her mother because her
mother lives in New Zealand andshe lives here in Canada in the
fall.
And I suspect, oh, and I'mgetting goosebumps.
SPEAKER_01 (37:44):
So I suspect that that will be the culminating of
the healing, and um her facewill be different again when she
comes back from so instead ofracing to get Botox to fix some
of these lines on your face,maybe we should just be getting
more curious as to what's whatour face is trying to tell us
and maybe work on that instead.
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
Yeah, and or at least know what it is that
you're doing when you Botox,what you're erasing, what
lesson, what warning.
Because, you know, for me, we'reliving longer.
And so, of course, that meansthat we're taking, we have more
(38:29):
time to make the expressionsthat create the wrinkles,
because wrinkles come from whenwe do our facial movements.
And so, in the living of thelonger, the more you make the
same expression, the more that'sgoing to carve that line into
your face.
And it's part of how you respondin your life.
So if you take away the abilityto see the response, it doesn't
(38:53):
mean you're not making theresponse.
It just means your face can'treflect it to you, which is
almost worse because then youcan't see the evidence of either
the behavior that's really goodfor you, like smiling, or the
behavior that says, Hey, I needto ask for some help because I'm
always overgiving here.
And if you understand whatyou're doing and then you Botox
(39:15):
it, then at least you can belike, All right, I know that I'm
I don't want to see myovergiving.
I want to still hide from that.
I'm not ready to fix itinternally.
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
So for somebody who's hiding these like deep,
deep 11s uh with Botox, you justneed to remember that they were
there and make sure someoneknows.
If I go to see you, I need tolet you know that they were
there before.
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
Yeah, like nowadays, because fillers and Botox are so
common, part of my intake is Isay, Have you had any cosmetic
surgery or procedures so that Iunderstand the face that I'm
looking at in the moment?
Because one of the times earlyin my career, I was like, okay,
this work is infallible.
(39:55):
Everything I say, people arealways like, yep, yep, yep.
And I was working with a womanand I said to her, because she
had no lines on her forehead,and the forehead represents the
decade of the 20s, and usuallythat's where we get all our
surprises.
So it's the lines that show upare records of the lessons that
we've learned in that coming outstage of our life.
(40:17):
And she had no lines.
And I said to her, Wow, you youmust have had a really nice
decade.
And she said, Oh no, it washorrible.
That all of these thingshappened.
And I was like, Oh, okay, am Iwrong?
And then later on in thesession, she said, Oh, by the
way, though, I botox.
And then I said, Oh, okay.
(40:39):
So you can only read what yousee, but also knowing these
things, it's a way to talk topeople about, oh, okay, well,
all of a sudden now you'rebumping up against that same
issue that you had when you were20, and you're getting more and
more of that.
Well, maybe it's because youcan't see the lesson in the
mirror anymore.
So your system's saying, Oh,what we need to hit some
(41:01):
betrayal again because we didn'tlearn those betrayal lessons
well enough.
I don't see it in the mirror.
So, you know, our face is arecord of our life experiences
for us as well to help protectus and guide us, not just to
make us look older and you know,deny that we've lived all these
many beautiful years.
SPEAKER_01 (41:21):
I went to medical school in my 20s with two kids,
and that definitely took a tollon my forehead.
Could definitely see it there.
So, for someone who's curiousand maybe a little skeptical
about this, what's a simplepractice or exercise that they
could try after listening tothis episode to get a taste of
facial intelligence in their ownlife?
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Well, I think, you know, one of the things that I
like to give people, especiallypeople who are not so happy with
their wrinkles, is um a littleexercise I call the five-minute
facelift.
So if you're looking in themirror and you're like, oh, I
don't like that line, or I don'tlike these lines, like those 11s
or whatever, then part ofunderstanding what your face is
(42:05):
trying to tell you is knowingthat you are making an
expression that's causing theline.
So what I suggest people do isput a little piece of tape
across the place where the lineis, when you're alone, of
course, and just go through lifefor 15 minutes, half an hour.
(42:26):
And when you feel that tapepull, know that you're making
the expression that's causingthe line and stop and think
about what am I thinking, whatam I feeling, what's happening
right now, because that's whatyour face is trying to tell you.
Like, oh, every time you makethis face, you're thinking about
(42:46):
your mother-in-law and uh howcritical she is of you, because
you just are doing the dishesand she tells you to do the
dishes wrong all the time.
It's like, oh, okay.
Doing something that invokes amemory of somebody criticizing
me, and that's why making thissuper critical face.
What if I didn't, what if Istopped bringing up that memory?
(43:08):
What if I had a conversationwith them?
What if I realized I'm itdoesn't matter how I do the
dishes, they're my dishes.
That's how our face tries tospeak to us, but we don't
recognize that.
So with the tape, especiallyaround things like wrinkles,
which are easier to know, thenyou can do a little bit of a
self-assessment to say, okay,you know, we'll start journaling
(43:31):
around that with various things.
And then you're accessing yourown internal face reader and
understanding what she wants youto know.
SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
Do you find that a lot of people stop you and ask
you about their face?
Like you must go to a dinnerparty, and people are just like,
What does my face tell you rightnow?
SPEAKER_00 (43:48):
Yeah.
I often get that.
I'll get people saying, Oh, whatdoes my face say?
Or they they hide their face, orthey'll just be like, Oh, it
says I'm really tired, right?
And I'm like, Well, I don'tknow.
But yeah.
So it's one of those things.
It's like intuition, it's alwaysthere, but you kind of either
keep it in the background or youkeep it in the foreground,
(44:10):
depending on whether you'reworking or not.
SPEAKER_01 (44:13):
Yeah, I'm sure people are very curious about uh
about what you do and what whattheir face says about them.
SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
Michelle, where can people find you?
Probably the best way to find meis on Instagram.
It's just Michelle MButt, that'smy handle, or
facialintelligence.co.
That there's a channel there forthat too.
And I post tips and things likethat there.
That's the best place.
SPEAKER_01 (44:36):
And you've got a free masterclass as well.
So I'm gonna put a link to thatin the show notes.
I'm gonna put the links to youruh social media and your free
masterclass.
Michelle, thank you so much forbeing here today.
This was a really fascinatingconversation.
I've never had anybody read myface.
It was a little bitintimidating, but I appreciate
your kindness and you're so onthe mark for with many, many of
(45:00):
the things that you've said.
And I know that a lot of mylisteners are gonna get a lot
out of this and see some of thisin themselves as well.
It's probably gonna help theirrelationships, especially if
their partner's got really peakyeyebrows.
And, you know, maybe they mightreact to the relationships a
little bit differently afterhearing this.
So I really appreciate yousharing your wisdom.
And it's been a real gift tohave you here.
SPEAKER_00 (45:21):
Oh, thank you so much.
Thank you for letting me sharethis work with you and being
such an open canvas for me todemonstrate the work.
SPEAKER_01 (45:29):
Well, in the podcast, I've been pretty open,
so I I don't think there's tootoo much left to hide.
So, and to all my listeners,thank you so much for hanging
out with us today.
If you'd like the episode, I'dlove it if you would share it
with someone who needs to hearit and heck, just share it with
the whole world.
I'd love to help more people outthere.
I'd also love it if you'd be sokind as to follow me and maybe
leave a comment.
(45:49):
I'm most active on Facebook atthe Codependent Doctor and
Threads and Instagram atDRAngela Downey.
I wish you all a great week asyou learn to foster a better
relationship with the mostimportant person in your life,
yourself.
I'll talk to you again in twoweeks.
So until then, take care fornow, and you've got this.
Thanks for spending time with metoday.
(46:10):
I hope something in this episoderesonated with you.
If it did, hit follow,subscribe, or share it with
someone who needs to hear ittoday.
The codependent doctor is notmedical advice and doesn't
replace speaking to yourhealthcare provider.
If you're in a crisis, please goto the near DR or call 911 and
corporate your local mentalhealth health line.
I'll be back here next week withmore important stories and
(46:32):
strategies because we're healingtogether.
Today's episode is all about something you probably
haven't thought much about, yourface.
And I don't mean in the do Ispinach in my teeth kind of way,
but in the sense that your faceactually holds clues to how you
communicate, connect, and evenrepeat patterns in your
relationships.
We're diving into thefascinating world of facial
intelligence, how our featurescan act like a mirror, showing
(00:23):
us not just who we are, but howwe show up for others.
And if you've ever struggledwith people pleasing, conflict,
or feeling like you loseyourself in relationships, this
conversation is gonna give you awhole new perspective on those
patterns, where they come from,and how to shift them.
So stick around because by theend, you'll have a powerful new
tool to understand yourself moredeeply and maybe even spot the
(00:45):
keys to connection and conflictresolution right in your own
reflection.
So grab yourself a cup ofcoffee, have a seat, and stick
with us.
This is gonna be a good one.
Welcome to the CodependentDoctor, a podcast where we
unpack the messy, beautifuljourney of healing from
codependency.
If you're burned out from peoplepleasing, stuck in unhealthy
patterns, or just tired ofputting yourself last, you're in
(01:06):
the right place.
I'm Dr.
Angela Downey, a family doctorand fellow codependent, and I'm
here to help you reconnect toyour authentic self, one honest
conversation at a time.
Here we go.
Hello to all my wonderfulpodcast listeners, and welcome
to the 58th episode of theCodependent Doctor.
I'm your host, Dr.
Angela Downey, a family doctorand fellow codependent, who's
(01:29):
here to help us untangle ourpatterns, heal our hearts, and
reclaim our peace.
For today's episode, we have aguest with us.
Michelle Butt is a facialintelligence expert and founder
of FaceTalk.
With training in Chinese facereading, linguistics, and
philosophy, she created a systemthat helps coaches, healers, and
leaders decode facial featuresto spark breakthroughs, deepen
(01:52):
relationships, and createlasting change.
I'm really excited to haveMichelle on the show because
what she teaches us is sodifferent from anything we've
talked about before.
The idea that our face canactually give you insight into
your patterns, your power, andeven how you connect with other
people.
This feels like a totally newdoorway into self-awareness and
(02:13):
healing.
I can't wait for you to hear hertake on this.
Welcome, Michelle.
I'm so glad that you're able tojoin us today.
How are you?
I'm doing really well.
How are you?
Good, good.
I hear you're in Canada justlike me.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
I am, yeah.
I'm in Ontario.
SPEAKER_01 (02:30):
That's amazing.
Enjoying the summer while wecan.
SPEAKER_00 (02:32):
Exactly.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (02:35):
Michelle, one of my traditions on the show is that
we discuss what we're gratefulfor because when we stop to
think about what we're gratefulfor, it helps our brains focus
on what's working instead ofwhat's missing or what's broken.
So I'd like to ask, is thereanything that you're grateful
for today?
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, I am grateful for in thismoment, this beautiful space
that I'm in.
We've spent the last two yearsbuilding a house that is our
second home.
And um, it's finally done.
So we get to spend some timehere, and it just feels amazing.
So I'm very grateful for that.
SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
It's nice when the work is finally done and you
actually get to appreciate itinstead of just worrying about
and paint swatches and thingslike that.
So uh for me, I'm reallygrateful.
I've got this great group of uhfriends, and I'm super
introverted, and but my partneris more on the extroverted side,
and she's got these greatfriends who she's been meeting
(03:34):
with regularly, and now she'sbrought me into that fold.
So I'm loving all the greatpeople that I've gotten to meet,
and we still get together everymonth, rain or shine, and we
just got together this weekend,and I'm really grateful for all
the new people I've met, andshe's really kind of gotten me
out of my shell because I wouldrather just kind of sit at home
in my bathrobe, to be honestwith you.
And uh, so it's nice being ableto get out there and and and to
(03:56):
meet people and and to havegreat friends.
And for all of you who arelistening out there today, what
are you grateful for?
I'd love to know.
You can reach me on Facebook atthe Codependent Doctor or
Instagram at dr Angela Downey.
So, Michelle, I'd like to startwith your story.
How did you first get introducedto Chinese face reading and
(04:17):
communication science?
And what inspired you to blendthose into what you now call
facial intelligence?
SPEAKER_00 (04:24):
That's a great place to start.
I left corporate uh managementfor a few years to have a bunch
of kids.
And when I was deciding to goback to work, I wanted to go
into that leadership mentorshipspace, but not go back to the
corporate grind.
So I did a bunch of NLP andcoaching courses and thought,
(04:45):
okay, I'm gonna be a coachbecause people came to me
anyway.
And as I started to have thatjourney of coaching, at the same
time, things weren't necessarilyworking in my marriage.
So I thought, okay, there'sgotta be something that I can do
better around seeing what peoplewant me to know but aren't able
(05:06):
to tell me because I was workingwith clients and they would come
back session after session andkind of still be in the same
place.
And I'm like, we're not gettingto it.
And I have all these great toolsthat I was trained with and paid
for, and they're not working.
So I went on a search to try andfind the thing that would work
for me.
And I happened upon a book onChinese face reading, picked it
(05:29):
up, took it home, read it fromcover to cover, and then I
thought, oh my god, there'ssomething to this, but it's a
little ancient, it's a littlewoo-woo.
I don't know if this is gonnawork.
And then a client walked into myoffice who'd been struggling
with anxiety and a whole bunchof things, and I just took one
look at her face, and I said toher, We're gonna do something
(05:51):
different today.
I'm gonna tell you what yourface is telling me because I
think this is the actual root ofyour problem.
And um, she had this nose thatsaid everything about the
anxiety and everything about theway that she was doing her life,
and from there actually able tofigure out the problem, which
maybe we can chat about later aswe talk more about this work.
(06:15):
But that started a whole changein her life.
She changed career, she starteda new job, she started working
for herself, she wrote a book,she had a couple of kids, met
the love of her life, and allbecause she finally knew who she
was and how she could do lifeaccording to her design as
opposed to haphazardly.
And that made me say, okay,there's something to this, but
(06:37):
we're not living in ancientChina.
So, how do we modernize the workto meet modern day problems?
And that's where facialintelligence came into play
because I had a degree inlinguistics and communication,
so I layered in those strategieswith the face reading part and
started facial intelligence.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
Okay, so this was news to me.
I'd never heard of this before.
So, listeners who might behearing about this for the first
time, what exactly is facialintelligence and how different
is it from just readingexpressions or body language?
SPEAKER_00 (07:08):
Right.
So it's very different fromexpressions in body language,
although that is actually alayer in the advanced facial
intelligence work.
But really, what it is is it'slooking at the features,
markings, and wrinkles on ourfaces to understand our
personality, our health, the wayour emotions, the way we access
(07:31):
our emotions.
It's all about a personalityblueprint that is part of your
innate design.
So the features that you're bornwith and that you grow into, but
then also how you're actuallydoing life in accordance with or
in opposition to that innatedesign by way of scars,
wrinkles, changes in features tounderstand who someone is, how
(07:55):
they connect, how theycommunicate, how they do life.
So it's more than just saying,Oh, did you just lie to me?
It's oh, okay.
What does that expression meanwhen you make it?
SPEAKER_01 (08:07):
So, like you've said that the face is it's like a
mirror to the mind and thespirit.
So, can you walk us through howsomeone might begin to read
their own face to betterunderstand themselves?
SPEAKER_00 (08:18):
Yeah, yeah.
So there's four main things thatany feature on the face can tell
you.
Um, so one is where the workoriginally began, is it's a
potential for a health marker.
So face reading began in ancientChina as a diagnostic tool for
(08:39):
health.
And as the ancient doctorsstarted seeing, oh, okay, we can
map each area of the face to themeridians in the body.
So if anybody's ever hadacupuncture, you know that all
those meridian points weremapped out thousands of years
ago.
And they all kind of culminatein the face.
So the face maps to the liver,the kidney, all the systems.
(09:04):
And so any feature can tell yousomething about the state of
those health markers.
It can tell you about thepersonality and emotional set
points of someone, it can tellyou something about their time
of life.
So there's a spot on the facefor each year from one to 100.
So you can kind of map, oh,where did that scar when when
(09:27):
you got that scar?
Where is it marking?
What do those two times have todo with where you're at right
now?
And it also has each featuresays something about our
intuition.
So the type of intuition we haveand that we have access to to
help us discern the intangiblesin life.
So that's all the informationthat we get from like each
(09:51):
feature.
SPEAKER_01 (09:52):
So is this like saying, oh, you've got you know
crow's feet, you've got allthese lines around your eyes,
you must be like a really happyperson because now you're
smiling a whole lot.
Is that what you're talkingabout?
Or is it like my nose is reallybig, therefore my liver must not
be working properly?
Like struggling to understandexactly how this works.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
It's both.
So these are joy lines in facialpolitics, right?
So you're exactly right.
If you have them in abundance,then that usually means you
smile a lot, a genuine smile.
So those are the wrinkles thatwe like to see on faces and hope
people never ever get rid of.
Um, but it also speaks to likethe nose.
(10:36):
So, for example, in that exampleI gave with my client, a
prominent nose is one of thefeatures that speaks to how much
of a perfectionist we are, howmuch we pay attention to detail,
how much control we need, withthe intention of paying
(10:57):
attention to all those littlethings because we want to create
beautiful experiences for otherpeople.
The intuition that's associatedwith that is a strong sense of
spatial energy.
So in her case, or do you wantgo ahead, ask the question.
SPEAKER_01 (11:14):
No, I was gonna say, like, isn't this just the nose
that I was born with?
SPEAKER_00 (11:17):
It can be, yes, but that nose that you're born with
says something about how you dothe world from the perspective
of how much you pay attention todetail, how much perfectionism
comes into play in all thethings you do.
Uh whether you're here to createbeautiful experiences for people
(11:38):
or you're here to nurture andhug them, because those are two
very different things, eventhough they both mean that
someone may have a beautifulexperience in your presence.
The nose will indicate howperfect you make it, so how it
looks and feels, and the hugwill indicate how you touch
somebody's.
SPEAKER_01 (11:58):
I suddenly feel the need to hide my nose.
Yeah, no, you have a beautifulnose.
Thank you.
So by my nose, can you tell thatI'm like a people pleaser and a
perfectionist and a bit of acontrol freak?
Are you able to see that?
Is that what you're saying thatyou are?
SPEAKER_00 (12:18):
Yeah, I can be for sure.
Yeah, well, you know what?
I honestly I'm not seeing thatcoming from your nose
necessarily.
Your nose says to me that youcare about the experience people
have with you.
So it's about the experiencethat people have with you, not
(12:39):
necessarily that the environmentis perfect.
It's like, okay, am I touchingtheir heart?
And I think the if you are aperfectionist, it's not coming
from the same energy, it'scoming from a different place.
So this is what the featureswill tell us.
Perfectionism from the place ofa nose, which is part of the
(13:02):
royal archetype, is about makingsure that the energy feels right
so that people walk into a roomand they can feel it.
And it's also about the personwho owns the nose being in
control of the energy so thatthey can take a full breath in
the room and feel really goodand safe.
(13:22):
And whereas perfectionism, ifyou describe yourself as a
perfectionist and you don't havelots of royal features, then
potentially it's coming from adifferent motivator.
And that's kind of the beauty ofthe work is figuring out the
motivators by way of the face.
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
Yeah, no, there's a lot of information.
So it's not just clear cut, thisis your nose, this is your
personality type.
There's a lot of otherinformation that that comes into
play when trying to figure outwhat's happening.
SPEAKER_00 (13:54):
Right, because we all have noses, but we have it
on different bases.
So each nose means something,but it's unique in the way it's
combined with all the otherfeatures on each face.
SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
So a lot of my listeners, they struggle with
people pleasing, overgiving, andlosing themselves in
relationships, as I did for avery long time.
How can understanding your ownface or even noticing features
in other people, how can thathelp create healthier conditions
for us?
SPEAKER_00 (14:20):
So I think it's important to understand first
what your face says, and thenwhen you know what how to read a
face, then you can see whatother people's faces about are
saying about their experienceand their experience with you.
But I think that each of us canbe a people pleaser or stay in
(14:43):
relationships that don't serveus for different reasons based
on our faces.
So if we were to use your faceas an example, if you're okay
with that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
Please please do.
I'm afraid to ask, but yes, I'msuper curious.
SPEAKER_00 (14:59):
Okay, so the way that we read a face typically is
I will look at first what's thething that's just kind of
blinking at me, like giving methis blinking light, saying,
Hey, look at me, I've gotsomething to tell you about this
person.
So one of the first things Inotice about you is that
beautiful curly hair and thebright sparkly eyes.
(15:20):
So those two features in and ofthemselves fall under the
archetype of the captivator.
And one of the things that thecaptivator uh struggles with is
an interesting thing because youwere saying, Oh, I'm so
introverted, I don't like to goout.
But part of that is because acaptivator feels everything.
(15:44):
They feel people, they are theempaths.
So I know we use empath a lot asa buzzword, but captivators,
still curly hair, bright sparklyeyes, really are true empaths.
They feel with their heart andthey feel the emotions of other
people.
So even though they're meant tobe out there, because
captivators are supposed to bein the spotlight, they may shy
(16:04):
away from the spotlight becauseof the empathic overwhelm of
being around a lot of people.
And so when you can feel peopleand you feel that they're sad,
you feel that they're upset, asa heart-centered being with all
that captivator energy, you'regoing to want to help them.
You're going to want to dosomething for them.
(16:26):
And so then you end up pleasingthem and depleting yourself when
you don't know how to have thoseboundaries of, okay, this isn't
mine, it's not mine to take,it's not mine to carry.
It belongs to them.
But they're letting that you canfeel it, learn to feel it and
say, Okay, I feel that emotionfrom you.
I don't need to take it fromyou.
I'm just here to recognize itand see you.
(16:49):
Not, I'm not the purposecatalyst to your healing all the
time.
And so that can causecodependency because of your
face.
Just those two features isprobably a big key to that.
Now, people who aren'tcaptivators can also be
codependent based on their otherfeatures.
(17:09):
The other thing that I see isthat you have this beautiful,
nice, round, full face, which isvery much a nurturer.
And so, nurturers, that's one ofthe archetypes, they are the
ones who take care of otherpeople.
So, not from the heart-centeredspace, but from the that kind of
mother energy space where I makesure all your needs are met, I,
(17:34):
you know, feed you, and I makesure your clothes are out, and I
make sure there's so the takingcare of.
And often nurturers canovergive, not receive enough.
And then when they don't get thefeedback they need to reassure
them that they are givingenough, they will do more and
more and more and and loseconfidence in themselves because
(17:57):
they're like, Well, this personstill isn't happy, and I'm
cooking for them and I'mcleaning for them, and I'm doing
all these things, and they'restill not happy.
Must be me.
Because that's the mentality andthe programming of a nurturer.
So when you understand that,then you can be like, okay, I
don't have to overgive, or allthe other strategies that come
(18:18):
with now recognizing who you areand how you do the world, that
your face is trying to help youunderstand every time you look
in the mirror.
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
Yeah, you've hit the nail right on the head.
Like anyone who's listened to mypodcast knows I don't like to
cook or clean, but there aremany other ways that I tend to
nurture and and kind ofovergive.
Um, but that that's interestingthat you could say that just
from curly hair, sparkly eyes,and a round face.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, and I think that'sthe thing too.
Nurturing means taking care ofpeople, and that means
anticipating their needs,knowing their needs.
So it also means feeding them,but that means feeding their
soul, feeding their heart,feeding so it, you know, it
doesn't have to be as literal ascooking.
It can be, I'm the one that willsit down and have a cup of tea
(19:07):
with you and give you the hug.
And, you know, if you needsomething, I'm right there, that
kind of person.
SPEAKER_01 (19:13):
Very cool.
I love that.
Um, and yeah, feel free to tellme anything about my face.
I'm pretty open on the podcast.
So I appreciate that.
Um, so you mentioned that thereuh when we were talking earlier,
you mentioned that there was onefeature that's especially
important when it comes toconnection and conflict
resolution.
Can you share what that is andhow we can use that knowledge
every day?
SPEAKER_00 (19:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
So the one that I think is mostimportant for that, and that I I
use it because it's easy torecognize and um although like
with my glasses, it's harder tosee today, but are the eyebrows.
So one of the things that theeyebrows reveal to us is what
(19:55):
type of a decision makersomebody is.
So depending on the shape andthe thickness of the eyebrows,
you can discern what people takeinto account when they're making
a decision.
So, for example, my eyebrows arepretty straight.
So, for the most part, um I lookat things from a logical
(20:20):
perspective.
So, eyebrows are aboutconfidence and logic and
strategy and all of thosethings.
So, when I'm making a decision,for the most part, it has to
make sense to me first.
So give me the A B C's, do it ina direct linear way, and if it
works in my brain, then I willsay yes.
(20:40):
Now you have um slightly morerounded eyebrows, and I know we
manipulate our eyebrows, so youkind of go with you look for the
natural shape, but then you alsotake into account, if you change
the shape, what that how that isinfluencing your innate
decision-making positioning.
(21:00):
But um, assuming that's yourinnate shape, rounded, then that
means that although you valuelogic because the eyebrows are
about logic, you take apeople-centered approach to your
decision making.
So that means that even if Igave you all the ABCs, if I
(21:20):
didn't tell you how it would begood for the people in your life
that are going to be influencedby that decision, it would still
be harder for you to say yesuntil that was taken into
account because it's importantto you to consider everyone, not
just your own perspective.
Does that resonate with you?
SPEAKER_01 (21:39):
Yeah.
Does that does that changeanything when it comes to
conflict and trying tocommunicate in people with
people in everyday life?
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
Yes, I think it does because often conflict leads
from a missed communication andthen a misunderstanding.
So if I just say to you, heyAngela, we we need to go to the
grocery and do this and do thisand do this, okay, are you
coming?
And everything makes sense, it'sall in a line, and you're like,
(22:05):
wait, no, I'm not sure.
Then I can be like, Well, what'sso hard about that?
And we can start a bigdiscussion around it because I'm
thinking, I just told you thatwe're gonna get all these things
done and it's only gonna take anhour.
And you're thinking, but whatabout the puppy that's gonna be
left alone for and so I didn'ttake that into account, and so
(22:28):
then you're thinking, but you'renot seeing all the things that
are outside of that list, so youknow, and then uh there's the
peaky kind of eyebrows, youknow, the ones like the
Kardashians have with the allalmost like an upside-down V.
Those people, especially ifthey're naturally shaped that
way, they're really quickdecision makers.
(22:48):
So they can make a decision onthe fly, but people with your
eyebrows or my eyebrows, we needa little bit more time to go
through what's important to us.
And so often in con, like inconversation and communication,
if I had peaky eyebrows, I'd belike, okay, just make a decision
now.
And you're like, but wait, Ineed to.
And so then if I have peakyeyebrows and you have rounded
(23:12):
eyebrows, I need to know.
I need to give you a little bitmore time and talk about the
people because I've already madeup my mind, but you don't think
that way and you don't work thatway.
SPEAKER_01 (23:21):
So you're saying it just kind of helps you
understand where the otherperson's coming from and what
their natural tendencies anddecision making are.
SPEAKER_00 (23:28):
Right.
And what they need from you inorder to get on board with you.
Because often then, when wedon't meet the needs of the
other person in a way that ishonors who they are, then they
are less apt to want to honorwhat we want.
And then it just becomes abattle of wills or a battle of
dominance or control as opposedto a coming together of
(23:51):
understanding.
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
I have one eyebrow that's different than the other.
One goes up higher than theother.
So I have to kind of like pushmy eyebrows down on one side,
lift them up on the other sothat they're a little bit more
even.
And I don't know.
Sometimes I wonder if that justmakes me look like I'm
questioning things.
I I don't know if that meansanything.
SPEAKER_00 (24:09):
What side is the one that's higher?
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
So it's the one on the left side is is higher than
than the right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:17):
Right.
So in facial intelligence, theleft side of our face is about
our private life, our personallife, and the right side of our
face is about our public life.
So if that eyebrow is higher onthe left, which is your private
(24:39):
life, then what that says to me,so the positioning of the
eyebrows can sometimes um willindicate that perfectionism,
kind of royal aspect that youmay have.
So that eyebrow says in yourpersonal life, you have high
(24:59):
standards, you uh really careabout the experiences that other
people have with you, that youhold yourself to high standards
and you hold other people tohigh standards, and you really
want to create those beautifulexperiences for the people who
are closer to you.
It's more important necessarilythan in your public life.
In your public life, you can beless less rigid, a little bit
(25:25):
more um open because yourprivate life has higher stakes
for you.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
Yeah, I agree.
That's I didn't know if therewas any significance to that,
but you're very correct in whatyou've said.
SPEAKER_00 (25:37):
Oh, that's great.
Thank you for validating thatfor me.
And you know, the thing is too,this this may come from
experiences over time, like youwere saying, like, oh, maybe you
raise that one eyebrow more aspart of the experiences that
you've had.
So if you are one who didn'thold your standards in previous
(26:01):
relationships because of thatcaptivator nature and stuff that
made you give in to other peoplemore, now looking in the mirror,
you see that higher eyebrowevery day.
So your system is saying, hey,remember, we've got really high
standards in our personalrelationships.
We're not going to allow that tohappen anymore.
And so your face has molded intoa way that when you look in the
(26:23):
mirror, the unconscious facereader in you is saying, Oh,
yeah, this is really importantin our private life.
We don't want to get to thatplace where we feel the way we
used to feel.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Very interesting.
I don't think I'll ever be ableto look at my eyebrows the same
way.
That's my intention.
That's great.
Thank you for that.
So in codependency, people oftenfeel stuck repeating the same
relationship dynamics.
So, how can facial intelligencehelp someone recognize those
patterns and begin to shiftthem?
SPEAKER_00 (26:53):
Yeah, well, I think we've talked a little bit about
it by using you as a beautifulmodel and reference.
So thank you for that.
But I think part of it is whenyou begin to know who you are
and you know how your faces mapto the behaviors of the
archetypes, then you know, okay,as a nurturer, for example, my
intention is to give and supportand take care of other people.
(27:18):
When I get out of balance, I'movergiving and I'm
over-supporting, and then I loseconfidence.
So I have to know how to, I haveto learn how to not let that
happen because that is the way Ilose my power.
And part of that is thenknowing, okay, when a nurturer
energy is depleted, what fillsthat cup back up?
(27:41):
It's things like reassurance andgratitude and being able to ask
for help.
It's knowing that some thingsyour partner might not be able
to give to you, but you might beable to get elsewhere.
So, for example, if a nurtureris with a partner that is very
captivator, so I'm only usingthose because we can see that in
(28:03):
your face.
So that captivator may need allthe attention they because
oftentimes an out-of-balancecaptivator will either be the
complete introvert or the onewho sucks all the energy out of
the room because it always hasto be about them.
And so that nurturer may not getthe attention they need from the
captivator, because thecaptivator will always turn
(28:24):
something around and make itabout them.
So if you said, Oh, I'm reallytired, you're tired.
Well, I'm tired too, and youknow, it'll always turn around.
So where do you go?
Then you know, okay, I may lovemy partner, but I don't get that
from them.
So I'll go to my best friend andsay, I just need to have a cup
of tea and talk about my day.
Is that okay?
(28:45):
And get the filling of their cupin the appropriate place without
asking the partner to change orresenting them until they're
able to be healed enough to seeyou as well.
So knowing who you are by way ofyour face allows you to take
some power back in knowing whatsigns of the depletion really
(29:08):
are.
And that's just one strategy,but uh how to use the right
strategies to fill you back upto the best energetic version of
yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (29:17):
At the beginning of the interview, you mentioned
that you had a patient who camein, she had severe anxiety, and
I think it was the nose that youlooked at and you thought we
need to kind of take a differentdirection.
So, what was it about thatperson and and and the nose that
kind of make you made you changedirections and focus on
something else?
And how did you go about doingthat?
SPEAKER_00 (29:38):
Yeah, so one of the tools that I was taught in my
coaching practice was that youjust keep asking the same
question to the client.
You keep saying, How is that aproblem?
And how is that a problem?
And how is that a problem?
Until they eventually come to ananswer that is a universal core
wound for everybody.
And that just didn't seem to beworking.
(30:00):
So I was like, well, why isn'tthis working?
And then when I started readingthese face reading books and
started studying with a mentor,when that client walked into my
office, what I noticed was thatshe had a very royal nose.
So it's a prominent nose, but italso had a little bump in it.
(30:20):
It was perfect for her face.
But what that nose meant wasthat she was very royal.
And part of the characteristicsof the royal archetype are being
really detail-oriented, wantingto create beautiful experiences
for other people, beingperfectionistic, everything
looking perfect on the outside,but like the junk drawer in the
(30:44):
house, it's a mess on theinside.
That was who she was.
And what she was how what sheworked at was that she was a
hairstylist in a very busy, veryhigh standard salon.
So here she is doing all ofthese things, but feeling very
anxious at the end of the dayand feeling like there she she
(31:07):
couldn't do enough.
Well, the other side of a royalis an extremely sensitive
intuition.
So it's an environmentalsensitivity.
So being able to walk into aroom and just feel the space,
knowing if you know the plantover there has been moved five
(31:27):
millimeters by somebody elseovernight, um, knowing how
everything feels all the time.
And that is a gift of a royalbecause that allows them to
create a beautiful experienceenergetically, but it can be so
overwhelming, especially whenyou're touching people or people
(31:49):
are coming and going, and thewhole thing all day long is
about perfectionism and energy,and people are relying on you to
feel good all the time, just bythe nature of you know, they
come in looking one way and theywant to leave feeling.
So her big problem was theenergetic overwhelm of her job
(32:11):
and of her own desire to be asperfect as she could be as a
royal.
So once we I got that, becausethat's what her nose said, then
she was able to say, Oh my god,that is how I feel.
Like I walk into this space andI automatically feel drained,
and I didn't even know what thatwas all about.
(32:32):
So we began, and she neverthought about energy that way,
and never thought about any ofthat.
So after that, she started herown journey.
So she left the salon andcreated a salon in her home
where she controlled the energy,she controlled how many people
came in, only took her ownclients, and then went on to
(32:52):
study yoga and Reiki to learnhow to take better control of
her energetic sensitivity inorder to live more fulfilled in
the world rather than drainedall the time.
And now that's what she does.
She she is a Reiki master andshe's written a book and she
teaches other people energymanagement because that's been
(33:14):
her biggest issue her whole lifewas managing the energy in the
spaces around.
And we wouldn't have gottenthere if I didn't see it in her
nose.
SPEAKER_01 (33:21):
And out of all the people that you've worked with,
is this like the most powerfultransformation story that you've
experienced?
SPEAKER_00 (33:27):
I think that is one that's very memorable to me
because that was the moment whenI realized, okay, this work is
important.
This work helps people seethemselves and it it can change
the way they do life.
Um, but I think most recently,um, I had a client who came to
(33:50):
me and she just said, you knowwhat, I'm just doing this
because I saw you do a talk onceand and I think I'm done.
Like, I think there's nothingleft for me in life.
Like, I'm done.
She was just like, I have mykids are grown, she was
divorced, I had enough money tolive the rest of her life
without doing whatever anything,and she was just, I think I'm
(34:13):
done.
SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
And I was suicidal done, or just yeah, or that and
yes, that, or it's okay if Idied tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00 (34:23):
It would be okay.
Um and but I said, Well, youcan't be done because you're
here.
So what do you need to see?
And what she was really donewith was identifying with all
the things in her past thatweren't allowing her to find the
next great thing in her life.
(34:44):
And so, you know, one of herthings on her face that we saw
or that I saw was she had thisum I don't know if people I
don't have it, but a line here.
Have you ever seen that wherepeople have a line there?
SPEAKER_01 (34:57):
I don't know if you just kind of the the bridge, the
bridge of the nose between theeyes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:02):
Yeah, and it was really prominent.
Um, and that often indicates.
So I talk about three things,right?
It can indicate um potentialstomach issues because it's part
of the nurture meridians, it canindicate um a break with life,
(35:23):
uh a big life change at the endof the 30s into the 40s, or it
can indicate mother issues.
It's often the first indicatorof issues with mother issues,
and she had digestive issues.
She got divorced shortly afterher 40s and huge mother issues
(35:46):
in her life that were now thatshe was no longer like she was
an empty nester, in essence,both of her children had gone on
and started living their ownlives.
Those mother issues really cameto the surface because she
couldn't transmute that into herown mothering journey, which
helped her to say, okay, well,I'm being a good mother, I'm
(36:06):
being a better mother than mymom.
Now she had to deal with whathad driven her her whole life as
an adult, which was a I'm not mymom, to okay, then who am I now?
And that's what we began to workthrough.
And she found her own way, andshe's an incredible intuitive
(36:29):
channeler, which we didn't shewas not putting out into the
world.
And so we still work togethertoday, and she's so different.
Like if you saw her face fromthen to now, like 18 months ago,
the changes are incredible.
And you know, the changes in herface are a byproduct of the work
she's done because now her facecan't must reflect to her who
(36:51):
she really is inside, not theparts that she didn't want to
see anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (36:56):
When you say that there's been a change in her
face, that line at the at thebridge of the nose between the
eyes is still there.
SPEAKER_00 (37:02):
Or is it there?
It's there, it's less.
So sometimes they disappear, um,but it's definitely less, which
means that you know, I often saythat the face is is telling the
story of you.
So that trauma with her motherwill always be part of her
story, but it doesn't have to bethe one that's blinking all the
(37:24):
time at you in the first thingyou see.
So it's definitely gone down.
And she hasn't seen her motherin, I don't know, 10 years.
And she's taking a trip to gosee her mother because her
mother lives in New Zealand andshe lives here in Canada in the
fall.
And I suspect, oh, and I'mgetting goosebumps.
SPEAKER_01 (37:44):
So I suspect that that will be the culminating of
the healing, and um her facewill be different again when she
comes back from so instead ofracing to get Botox to fix some
of these lines on your face,maybe we should just be getting
more curious as to what's whatour face is trying to tell us
and maybe work on that instead.
SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
Yeah, and or at least know what it is that
you're doing when you Botox,what you're erasing, what
lesson, what warning.
Because, you know, for me, we'reliving longer.
And so, of course, that meansthat we're taking, we have more
(38:29):
time to make the expressionsthat create the wrinkles,
because wrinkles come from whenwe do our facial movements.
And so, in the living of thelonger, the more you make the
same expression, the more that'sgoing to carve that line into
your face.
And it's part of how you respondin your life.
So if you take away the abilityto see the response, it doesn't
(38:53):
mean you're not making theresponse.
It just means your face can'treflect it to you, which is
almost worse because then youcan't see the evidence of either
the behavior that's really goodfor you, like smiling, or the
behavior that says, Hey, I needto ask for some help because I'm
always overgiving here.
And if you understand whatyou're doing and then you Botox
(39:15):
it, then at least you can belike, All right, I know that I'm
I don't want to see myovergiving.
I want to still hide from that.
I'm not ready to fix itinternally.
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
So for somebody who's hiding these like deep,
deep 11s uh with Botox, you justneed to remember that they were
there and make sure someoneknows.
If I go to see you, I need tolet you know that they were
there before.
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
Yeah, like nowadays, because fillers and Botox are so
common, part of my intake is Isay, Have you had any cosmetic
surgery or procedures so that Iunderstand the face that I'm
looking at in the moment?
Because one of the times earlyin my career, I was like, okay,
this work is infallible.
(39:55):
Everything I say, people arealways like, yep, yep, yep.
And I was working with a womanand I said to her, because she
had no lines on her forehead,and the forehead represents the
decade of the 20s, and usuallythat's where we get all our
surprises.
So it's the lines that show upare records of the lessons that
we've learned in that coming outstage of our life.
(40:17):
And she had no lines.
And I said to her, Wow, you youmust have had a really nice
decade.
And she said, Oh no, it washorrible.
That all of these thingshappened.
And I was like, Oh, okay, am Iwrong?
And then later on in thesession, she said, Oh, by the
way, though, I botox.
And then I said, Oh, okay.
(40:39):
So you can only read what yousee, but also knowing these
things, it's a way to talk topeople about, oh, okay, well,
all of a sudden now you'rebumping up against that same
issue that you had when you were20, and you're getting more and
more of that.
Well, maybe it's because youcan't see the lesson in the
mirror anymore.
So your system's saying, Oh,what we need to hit some
(41:01):
betrayal again because we didn'tlearn those betrayal lessons
well enough.
I don't see it in the mirror.
So, you know, our face is arecord of our life experiences
for us as well to help protectus and guide us, not just to
make us look older and you know,deny that we've lived all these
many beautiful years.
SPEAKER_01 (41:21):
I went to medical school in my 20s with two kids,
and that definitely took a tollon my forehead.
Could definitely see it there.
So, for someone who's curiousand maybe a little skeptical
about this, what's a simplepractice or exercise that they
could try after listening tothis episode to get a taste of
facial intelligence in their ownlife?
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Well, I think, you know, one of the things that I
like to give people, especiallypeople who are not so happy with
their wrinkles, is um a littleexercise I call the five-minute
facelift.
So if you're looking in themirror and you're like, oh, I
don't like that line, or I don'tlike these lines, like those 11s
or whatever, then part ofunderstanding what your face is
(42:05):
trying to tell you is knowingthat you are making an
expression that's causing theline.
So what I suggest people do isput a little piece of tape
across the place where the lineis, when you're alone, of
course, and just go through lifefor 15 minutes, half an hour.
(42:26):
And when you feel that tapepull, know that you're making
the expression that's causingthe line and stop and think
about what am I thinking, whatam I feeling, what's happening
right now, because that's whatyour face is trying to tell you.
Like, oh, every time you makethis face, you're thinking about
(42:46):
your mother-in-law and uh howcritical she is of you, because
you just are doing the dishesand she tells you to do the
dishes wrong all the time.
It's like, oh, okay.
Doing something that invokes amemory of somebody criticizing
me, and that's why making thissuper critical face.
What if I didn't, what if Istopped bringing up that memory?
(43:08):
What if I had a conversationwith them?
What if I realized I'm itdoesn't matter how I do the
dishes, they're my dishes.
That's how our face tries tospeak to us, but we don't
recognize that.
So with the tape, especiallyaround things like wrinkles,
which are easier to know, thenyou can do a little bit of a
self-assessment to say, okay,you know, we'll start journaling
(43:31):
around that with various things.
And then you're accessing yourown internal face reader and
understanding what she wants youto know.
SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
Do you find that a lot of people stop you and ask
you about their face?
Like you must go to a dinnerparty, and people are just like,
What does my face tell you rightnow?
SPEAKER_00 (43:48):
Yeah.
I often get that.
I'll get people saying, Oh, whatdoes my face say?
Or they they hide their face, orthey'll just be like, Oh, it
says I'm really tired, right?
And I'm like, Well, I don'tknow.
But yeah.
So it's one of those things.
It's like intuition, it's alwaysthere, but you kind of either
keep it in the background or youkeep it in the foreground,
(44:10):
depending on whether you'reworking or not.
SPEAKER_01 (44:13):
Yeah, I'm sure people are very curious about uh
about what you do and what whattheir face says about them.
SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
Michelle, where can people find you?
Probably the best way to find meis on Instagram.
It's just Michelle MButt, that'smy handle, or
facialintelligence.co.
That there's a channel there forthat too.
And I post tips and things likethat there.
That's the best place.
SPEAKER_01 (44:36):
And you've got a free masterclass as well.
So I'm gonna put a link to thatin the show notes.
I'm gonna put the links to youruh social media and your free
masterclass.
Michelle, thank you so much forbeing here today.
This was a really fascinatingconversation.
I've never had anybody read myface.
It was a little bitintimidating, but I appreciate
your kindness and you're so onthe mark for with many, many of
(45:00):
the things that you've said.
And I know that a lot of mylisteners are gonna get a lot
out of this and see some of thisin themselves as well.
It's probably gonna help theirrelationships, especially if
their partner's got really peakyeyebrows.
And, you know, maybe they mightreact to the relationships a
little bit differently afterhearing this.
So I really appreciate yousharing your wisdom.
And it's been a real gift tohave you here.
SPEAKER_00 (45:21):
Oh, thank you so much.
Thank you for letting me sharethis work with you and being
such an open canvas for me todemonstrate the work.
SPEAKER_01 (45:29):
Well, in the podcast, I've been pretty open,
so I I don't think there's tootoo much left to hide.
So, and to all my listeners,thank you so much for hanging
out with us today.
If you'd like the episode, I'dlove it if you would share it
with someone who needs to hearit and heck, just share it with
the whole world.
I'd love to help more people outthere.
I'd also love it if you'd be sokind as to follow me and maybe
leave a comment.
(45:49):
I'm most active on Facebook atthe Codependent Doctor and
Threads and Instagram atDRAngela Downey.
I wish you all a great week asyou learn to foster a better
relationship with the mostimportant person in your life,
yourself.
I'll talk to you again in twoweeks.
So until then, take care fornow, and you've got this.
Thanks for spending time with metoday.
(46:10):
I hope something in this episoderesonated with you.
If it did, hit follow,subscribe, or share it with
someone who needs to hear ittoday.
The codependent doctor is notmedical advice and doesn't
replace speaking to yourhealthcare provider.
If you're in a crisis, please goto the near DR or call 911 and
corporate your local mentalhealth health line.
I'll be back here next week withmore important stories and
(46:32):
strategies because we're healingtogether.
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