November 4, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode, Dr. Wendy Schofer joins me for a conversation that’s part personal story, part wake-up call. As a dual-board certified pediatrician, lifestyle physician, and trauma-informed coach, she’s learned firsthand how burnout, people-pleasing, and emotional disconnection can show up in our careers, relationships, and even our relationship with food and our bodies.
We talk about what it means to live boldly instead of shrinking to fit someone else’s mold, how emotional regulation changes everything, and why slowing down isn’t failure — it’s the gateway to meaning. Wendy also shares her free resource, How to End Emotional Eating: A Parent’s Guide, which offers insight into breaking unhealthy patterns tied to stress and emotional overload. You can download it here.
We also mention Rest is Resistance by Tricia Hersey — a must-read if you’re craving real rest. Buy it on Amazon (affiliate link: I may earn a small commission if you choose to purchase, at no extra cost to you).
Connect with Dr. Wendy Schofer:
🌐 Website
📱 Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | TikTok
This episode includes a paid partnership with BetterHelp. Click this link, betterhelp.com/drdowney, to get 10% off your first month.
📗 My Books: Enough as I Am (codependency recovery) Enough as I Grow (365 day guide journal). Affiliate disclosure: I am an affiliate parner with Amazon and therefore receive a commission at no cost to you.
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🎵 Music: Touching The Air by Graceful Movement
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Today's conversation is a deep dive into what it
really means to be bold, notjust in your career, but in
motherhood, your identity, andyour day-to-day life.
Dr.
Wendy Schaufer joins me to talkabout burnout, body image,
emotional regulation, and how webreak out of the roles that keep
us small.
It's honest, practical, andpacked with insights to stop
shrinking and start leading withboldness at home and at work.
(00:24):
Welcome to the CodependentDoctor, a podcast where we
unpack the messy, beautifuljourney of healing from
codependency.
If you're burned out from peoplepleasing, stuck in unhealthy
patterns, or just tired ofputting yourself last, you're in
the right place.
I'm Dr.
Angela Downey, a family doctorand fellow codependent, and I'm
here to help you reconnect toyour authentic self.
One honest conversation at atime.
(00:46):
Here we go.
I'm Dr.
Angela Downey, and I'm so gladthat you're hanging out with us.
I want to introduce you totoday's guest.
Dr.
Wendy Schofer is a dual boardcertified pediatrician,
lifestyle physician, improvcomedian, and trauma-informed
parenting coach.
As founder of Family in Focus,she's on a mission to help one
(01:08):
million parents relieve stress,strengthen relationships with
food, body, and family, anddesign homes where health feels
easy, joyful, and connected.
I'm so excited to have Dr.
Schaufer on today's show.
She brings such a bold andrefreshing perspective and being
unapologetically yourself.
Hi, Wendy.
It's so great to have you on.
(01:29):
How are you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
Great.
Thank you so much for theinvitation to join you here
today.
SPEAKER_01 (01:32):
So maybe we can start by having you introduce
yourself and tell us about yourjourney to becoming a
pediatrician and a lifestylephysician and a parenting coach.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
I never know exactly where to pick up the thread and
pick up the story.
And so a lot of times I'm justlike, hey, I'm Wendy.
I'm a girl who likes blackcoffee, long dog walks, and the
sound of laughter.
And to be honest with you, Ithink that covers a lot.
And yeah, I know people arelike, and tell me a little bit
more.
So yeah, I am a pediatrician.
(02:03):
I trained within the military.
I practiced within the military.
I retired from the military.
One of the greatest days of mylife.
But, you know, with the practicein the military, it's been
really cool because I got topractice with children, of
course, as a pediatrician.
And we are all generalphysicians as well.
And so I also got to practicewith adults.
(02:25):
And so I had quite a wide rangeof experiences in the military
after I got off of active duty.
I was doing a lot of work in thecommunity around the social
determinants of health and doingvolunteer work.
And one of the things that I wasdoing was actually researching
about diabetes preventionprograms for children and to
(02:48):
find the data for it and justwhat programs worked.
And that was when I actuallystumbled upon lifestyle
medicine.
And at the time I was readingit, I was like, hold on a
minute, focus on nutrition, onmovement, on sleep, on
connections, like all thesethings.
I'm like, I do this all thetime.
This is my practice.
(03:08):
I'm like, lifestyle medicine,this is a thing.
Like, yeah, there's a name forwhat I do.
It really resonated with me.
And so that was when I said, I'malready integrating this within
my practice, and I want tosurround myself with other
people that are also doing thissimilarly yet different, because
that's just the way that we doit.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
And the parent coaching, how did that come to
be?
SPEAKER_00 (03:30):
Great question.
So as a pediatrician, we allknow the drill.
During the well visits, I waslooking at growth charts and
hearing parents come in withworries about how their children
were growing, what they wereeating, mental health concerns,
use of electronics.
And I was like, I got you.
I know evidence-based medicine.
(03:52):
These are the prescriptions.
This is how you eat, how youmove, how much intensity of the
exercise to have for your child.
And I would write out aprescription and say, come back,
see me in three to six months.
And then they said, Hey, doc,this doesn't work.
We're failing this plan.
We're having fights, foodfights.
(04:13):
I'm making food that my kidsdon't want to eat.
I don't like to exercise.
Now I'm trying to make themexercise, and I'm finding canned
wrappers under the bed all thetime.
And the thing that really stuckwith me was when the parents
were saying, I'm failing.
I'm failing the plan.
I'm failing my kids.
I'm failing.
(04:33):
Like I have my own concernsabout my health and I can't help
my kids.
And that really stuck with mebecause I was facing the exact
same concerns in my own home.
Oh my gosh, those candy wrapperswere everywhere.
Facing those same concerns.
And I was thinking, you know, ifwe have parents that feel that
they're failing, these plansthat we're making, failing as a
(04:56):
parent, well, that's going toimpact the health of the whole
family.
And I mean, since then, it'ssomething where the Surgeon
General has even come out withthe concerns about parental
burnout and how that's impactingthe health of the family that is
really closely related rightthere, with parents feeling a
sense of failure andexperiencing stress and burnout.
(05:18):
And so I realized that there wasso much more to the conversation
than just me coming in as theexpert and saying, this is what
you do, because by the way, itwasn't working for the expert
either.
And so really looking at how dowe focus on what it is that we
actually want, which is a verybig shift in the conversation.
And so instead, I was like,let's focus on relationships,
(05:43):
relationship with food,relationship with bodies,
relationship with our eachother, and connection.
And that's the language ofcoaching.
That's totally the language ofcoaching.
I was doing more listening andreflecting what it is that they
were telling me.
And so I have my expertise, andso do the parents that I'm
(06:05):
working with.
And that's such a huge shiftbecause everybody wants to tell
everybody about how they are theexpert and they're going to tell
them how to fix their problems.
It's not working.
I mean, we've got all sorts ofexperts, whether it's, you know,
when we go to the medicaloffice, when we go scrolling on
Instagram, you know, whatever itis, when you go to the grocery
(06:28):
store.
Heck, the other day I was at anevent and a dad comes up and he
starts telling me about, youknow, this dynamic between him
and his wife, and all theseother people around us started
telling him what to do to fixit.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
What to do.
unknown (06:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
And it was like, oh my gosh, this is playing out in
real time right here.
unknown (06:46):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:47):
All that unsolicited advice.
So yeah, you've been open aboutyour own experience of burnouts.
Are you okay maybe taking usback to the moment and maybe
what was happening?
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
Wow.
So it's plural.
No.
Plural for the episodes ofburnout.
So um I I think that this storyactually goes hand in hand with
what I was experiencing in theoffice and professionally, as I
was feeling like I wasn't beingparticularly effective as a
(07:18):
physician to be able to helpthese families, let alone to be
able to help my own family.
And so just kind of spinning andfeeling so ineffective, that's
really exhausting.
So, you know, just kind of thatemotional burden that I was
taking with me.
And I didn't have the words forit, but I recognize that I've
(07:39):
gone through many differentcycles of burnout over time.
At that time, I thought that Ijust wasn't good enough, smart
enough, hardworking enough,dedicated enough, a good enough
mom, a good enough wife, all thethings.
It was all about me not beinggood enough in whatever way.
And I mean, I'm not somebodythat I would say is struggling
(08:02):
with self-esteem.
It's not something that I'mgoing around, you know, kind of
like Eeyore and, you know, oh,woe is me.
Woe is me.
Yeah.
And yet I was carrying thataround with me because while I
kept on getting that messagefrom others.
Well, if you just work harder,if you just work longer, if you
just figure out how to actuallypractice medicine and be a mom
(08:28):
at the same time, you can justfigure this all out.
And so it was just a recurrent,recurrent cycle that kept on
coming up.
But I didn't realize that thatwas the case.
It wasn't until honestly yearslater when there were a lot of
folks talking about burnout.
I was like, what the heck isthis?
Everybody keeps on talking aboutit.
Like, what is this?
Like, I don't understand.
(08:48):
And conveniently, this was inthe early days of COVID when the
world was shut down and I wascleaning out my closet because I
finally had some time to do it.
And I opened up to this box thatwas from that time frame when I
was really hitting the fan orhitting the wall.
Other things were hitting thefan.
And I pulled out this t-shirtthat I had not seen in years.
(09:12):
And it was a t-shirt that myhusband had made for me, gifted
to me for Christmas.
That on the front of it it hadthe hospital logo, and on the
back of it, it said a verychoice word that basically said
blank them all.
And you can fill in the blank.
I would not have thought ofmyself as being a pediatrician
with the sailor's mouth backthen.
(09:32):
But this was something that Iwould come home from work every
single day and I would say tohim, And it hit me when I opened
this up years later, that'sdepersonalization.
unknown (09:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:44):
That's what they're talking about with burnout.
So I knew the exhaustion, I knewthe ineffectiveness.
And then when I saw that'sdepersonalization, I'm trying to
like push everything away to beable to protect myself.
I'm trying to discount all ofthat because I'm just trying to
survive from one day to thenext.
And that was when I realizedthat was burnout.
(10:06):
Hold on a minute.
It is me too.
Yeah, we have many differentflavors of it, and this is such
a very common experience that wehave right now that's all
slightly different.
So let's really listen to well,what is your experience?
What's going on for you?
It may not look the same as thisperson over here.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
So, how do you think that you recovered from that?
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
What steps did you take?
Well, I mean, let's acknowledgethis is something that I think
is an act of recovery everysingle day because as much as I
talk about what's beyondburnout, it's not something
where it's like I've gotten toShangri-La and you know, never
burn out again.
I recognize what the indicatorsare for me.
(10:54):
Like when I am getting to thatpoint where I'm really
exhausted.
Overwhelm is a big part ofburnout for me.
When I am taking more things onthan what I can really execute
in a way that is meaningful andin a way that I feel that I want
(11:15):
to complete this.
And so it's more of kind of whatis, what is the word that I'm
looking for?
Kind of like a litmus test forit, or what is my my barometer
for experiencing those symptoms.
It's knowing myself.
And I think that that's reallyimportant to not paint this
picture of, you know, burnout issomething that you just like
(11:37):
move on and that's it.
You know, we've sutured this upand and you're gonna heal and
there's nothing else to do.
This is a human experience.
And we need to be able to reallybe aware of what we're
experiencing when we can seeourselves going down a path that
maybe we need to be mindful, ormaybe even say, you know what, I
(11:58):
need to back up, or I need toslow down, or I need to swerve a
little bit here.
SPEAKER_01 (12:01):
Yeah.
Um, do you think it was a matterof taking things off your plate?
Was it I'm sure it wasn't amatter of you just working
harder and giving more ofyourself?
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
Was it calling on the support of others?
What what do you think helpedyou get through it?
SPEAKER_00 (12:16):
So I think, and thank you, because I did not
answer that question before.
I I think that one of thegreatest things that I recognize
was how I practice, how Iparent, you know, what it is
that I do at my best.
Where is it that I really shine?
And so a lot of the times when Ireally struggle professionally,
(12:39):
it was when I was doing thingsthat don't really align with me.
If you've heard me talking aboutconnection relationships, I'm
really big on connection andrelationships.
I am an amazing outpatientgeneral doc.
So general pediatrician, mentalhealth, growth, nutrition, like
(12:59):
bring it on.
We are going to really connectand understand and build a
relationship, and I want to seeyou over time.
Go figure.
I have a very hard time whenit's in critical care.
Back in residency, now Irecognize why I barely made it
through the NICU.
I'm trying to buildrelationships, and it's really
(13:20):
hard to build a relationship inthat critical care must fix now
situation.
And so that helped me understandI need to be focusing on the
relationships.
That's what really works for me.
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
And that's where it is with your values and what's
important to you.
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
Absolutely.
And where I am magical, by theway, and not always feeling like
I need to work harder, longer,faster, you know, all these
different things.
And it's like it's kind of likeclimbing uphill to something
that you're like, what's thepoint here?
Why am I doing this?
When I have this other placeover here where I just truly
shine.
(13:58):
And I think that working tostrengths, working to joy,
working to the things thatyou're like, this is what I want
more of.
I mean, that's been a completeshift for me in my clinical
practice and of course, youknow, building out my parent
coaching program and thatpractice and also with my
family.
SPEAKER_01 (14:17):
You've said that you're not failing, you just
haven't been supported.
So, what are some of thesupports that you needed but
didn't have back then?
And how did you start buildingthose supports?
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
Yeah.
You know, it's funny that thewords of improv comedy come into
my head as soon as I think aboutthat.
And so at one of the times thatI was experiencing burnout, my
husband was deployed once again.
I was single parenting.
My kids were like oil and water.
So I came home from work and Isaid, do not hurt yourselves.
I'm going out tonight.
(14:49):
I need to hang with adults.
And I went to improv comedy andstarted learning there.
And one of the things that weteach in improv is, I've got
your back.
I've got your back.
It's one of the things that, youknow, we are just practicing all
along the way before everysingle show.
We go out there and we actuallytap each other on the back and
say, I got your back.
I got your back.
(15:11):
And I realized how that is somuch of what I needed.
I've needed all along the way tofeel like, you know what?
I'm gonna go out here.
I'm going out and really tryingsomething new.
Because I mean, the other thingwith improv comedy is that they
always tell you, go out andfail.
I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm adoctor.
(15:31):
I do not fail.
I'm a mom.
Are you kidding me?
I am not going out and trying tofail.
And the whole point is, well,you go out and try to fail.
Because if you're not, you'renot doing it big enough.
You're not trying somethingthat's outside of your comfort
zone.
And if we keep on staying in ourcomfort zone, it gets smaller
and smaller and smaller.
(15:53):
And so the combination ofchallenging myself to go out
there and fail, to not beafraid, to yeah, really be bold,
and to know that I've got my ownback and I've got others around
me too.
I mean, that whole village ofimprov was so important for me.
(16:14):
For just to be able to know thatyou've always got partners all
around you.
They've got your back.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
It sounds like that's what refilled your cup
and gave you more energy andmore life.
And I that might be differentfor different people too, right?
So re filling your cup might bereading or going to like a
knitting class or something, butfor you, that that's that's what
did it.
And I love that you foundsomething that you loved and
(16:40):
really helped you reconnect withyourself and with other people.
I also appreciate that you saythat it's important to be okay
with failing because I am aperfectionist.
I always have been, and itreally kept me trapped.
It prevented me from trying newthings that I've always wanted
to try.
And I heard a podcast one time,and the gentleman on the podcast
(17:03):
said, I want you to try and failat least four or five times a
month or something like that.
And I thought, why would I wantto do that?
But allowing myself to fail justallowed me to try new things.
And I thought that was just, itwas so liberating for me.
And and I would try something,and sure enough, I would fail.
And I'd be like, okay, wellthat's time number one.
(17:24):
I I have three more that I needto do this month.
But it really helped me get outof my shell.
So I I love that you weren'tafraid to try something new.
And even if one thing doesn'twork out, well, then maybe you
try another one.
But I love that you foundsomething that really resonated
with you and and really helpedyou fill up your cup.
SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
I would be lying if I said that that was one thing.
I mean, it's really like takinga little bit of a sprinkle here
and a sprinkle there, becauseyou know, in addition to that,
it was getting really goodsleep.
It was, you know, really kind ofslowing things down so that I
didn't have to keep on pushingall the time.
(18:03):
Like actually giving myselfpermission to slow down.
Oh my goodness, if you want anamazing book.
Oh my goodness, have you everheard of Rest is Resistance?
SPEAKER_01 (18:13):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
My goodness.
So it's written by a woman namedTrisha Kersey.
She also goes by the napminister.
Okay.
Okay.
If you got an awesome name likethat, yes, I'm listening.
Absolutely.
But her book is so powerfulabout how we don't need to earn
our rest.
(18:35):
We don't need to work so hard tofinally get to that place.
How this is truly the foundationfor everything that we do.
Our rest, our need, ourdeserving is inherent.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Sometimes I'm sitting on the couch and just
watching TV.
And somebody walks in the room.
I sometimes I jump.
I feel guilty that I'm sittingthere watching TV.
And I'm like, wow, I haven'tdone enough to deserve this,
right?
So, like, you shouldn't feelguilty for taking time to rest.
And this is something I need toremind myself of all the time.
(19:10):
It's something I've struggledwith for a long time, just
feeling like rest needed to beearned and I needed to do
everything else in the housebefore I actually got to sat sit
down with myself for 10 minutesand do something, just watch a
TV show.
It's terrible.
So you've talked about slowingdown to make life more
meaningful.
So, what does that look likewhen you're still working and
(19:32):
parenting and trying not to fallapart?
I love the third part there.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:38):
Well, I will admit that falling apart is a part of
the deal.
I mean, let's just firstacknowledge that.
I've had a really tough yearover the past year.
And there have been times whereI'm like, I'm falling apart
right now.
What do I need?
What do I need right now?
All sorts of differentchallenges that have been going
(19:59):
on.
And so I want to make sure thatwe can actually call that out
and embrace it and say, you knowwhat?
Falling apart does happen.
Absolutely.
What do you need to be able tosay it's okay?
I'm in a safe place, whateverthat is, creating safety.
And also we get back up again.
And part of that is that thatfailure thing.
(20:22):
I mean, in a way, it is thatwhole part about go out there
and fail.
Well, go out there and fallapart.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:28):
Falling apart can happen.
You need to learn to do what todo when that happens.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Yeah.
Well, and the things that I fallapart on, it's all stuff where
it's like, this has been reallymeaningful to me.
Something really big ishappening here and listening to
that.
So I think that slowing down isa big part to be able to embrace
that we will fail, we will fallapart, and we can refuel.
(20:57):
We can kind of like rebuild.
I think about uh Martha Becktalks about, oh I'm gonna mess
this story up, but kind of like,you know, in order for the
caterpillar to turn into thebutterfly.
And inside it's like it turnsinto like gobbledygoop,
absolutely nothing mush beforeit can re-emerge as the
(21:21):
butterfly.
She describes it much moreeloquently.
And yet, how many times do Irecognize I'm just in the
gobbledygoop mode right now?
And that's a part of theprocess.
There's no rushing for thecaterpillar to be able to become
a a butterfly.
unknown (21:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
It's kind of a vulnerable stage too, right?
When you you are a bitgobbledygoopish and any anything
can happen, but you just need tolike just get through that that
phase and whether or not thatmeans you need a therapist or
someone to talk to.
But but you do re-emerge, whichis the good thing to know.
SPEAKER_00 (22:03):
Absolutely.
It the reminder.
The reminder to have, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthe relationship with food and
body and family.
Because you've said that theseare not separate things and that
they're all linked.
So can you talk about that alittle bit?
SPEAKER_00 (22:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
We are all growing up in asociety that is very focused on
the external.
So on weight, on bodies, ongrowth, like what we see
externally, and also on eatinghabits, you know, all the
different habits, but inparticular, I'm focusing on the
(22:42):
food part right now.
And it's something where we havebeen speaking a lot more in the
office and in the communityabout, well, I don't want my
child to have diet mentality.
I don't want them to haverestriction.
I don't want to seed eatingdisorders as I'm trying to help
them navigate how they'reeating.
(23:03):
I just want them to have ahealthy relationship with food.
And I was like, you know, wekeep on saying this, but does
anybody actually know what thatmeans?
Like, what does it mean to havea healthy relationship with your
food?
And so the more that I've beentalking with families, I was
like, this is actually whatwe're working on.
The more that we control food,the more that we manage it, the
(23:26):
less that we're actually havinga relationship.
Our relationship is all aboutour thoughts, our beliefs, and
the way that we feel about food.
Well, guess what?
We eat 90-some odd percent, andthat's totally my number,
90-some odd percent of the timewe are eating because of an
emotion.
Very rarely are we actuallyeating because of physical
(23:48):
hunger.
We're eating because you knowit, it feels good.
Where I'm celebrating, or I'mcoming together with other
people.
I mean, there's lots of forms ofemotional eating.
This is normal.
We are pretty much by definitionall emotional eaters.
And there's a lot of stuff thathappens in our lives where we
feel bad for whatever reason.
(24:10):
Exhausted, frustrated,overwhelmed, disappointed,
whatever it may be.
And we also turn to food becauseit's comforting.
It also just happens to bethere, like all the time.
And understanding ourrelationship with food is
understanding, well, what is therole that it plays in our lives?
Not with any kind of judgmentand saying, oh my god, I can't
(24:32):
eat that anymore, or you gottalike get rid of all of it.
But that's interesting.
I turn to food, food feelsbetter when I'm feeling
exhausted.
I would much rather oh mygoodness, I would always stumble
home and go right to the pantrywhen I was exhausted coming home
from from work.
unknown (24:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
Well, Doritos feel amazing when I'm exhausted.
Interesting.
Interesting.
And so it's really somethingabout just seeing those
connections.
That's really the relationship,seeing the the connections that
we have with our food.
And I try to slow things down asmuch as possible because we want
to jump in with the judgmentlike oh, this is bad.
(25:12):
Oh, I should stop doing this.
I need to do less of it.
I need to do somethingdifferently.
If you hear the word need, Ineed to.
You're like, okay, hold on aminute.
I'm trying to control where thisis going.
unknown (25:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
Earlier today, I was running errands.
I had to go to the dentist, Ihad all sorts of stuff going on,
and I passed by a McDonald's,and I thought, oh, I'm just
gonna go pick up something atthe McDonald's.
And then I was like, Am Iactually hungry?
Like, am I going there becauseit's it's just like, is it just
there?
What is it?
Am I feeling bad?
(25:44):
I knew I didn't really want totake the effort to make a lunch
when I got home.
This was just easier, but Iwasn't even hungry.
And yet the first thing thatpopped in my mind was to go and
buy something.
And I was like, I'm not hungry,I'm just gonna go home.
And you know, when I do gethungry, I'll make myself
something.
But it takes energy to make ahealthy meal.
(26:04):
So that bag of Doritos or thatfood that you pick up is just so
much quicker when you are tiredand you're managing so many
things, so many, you know, otherpeople's emotions, their
meltdowns, their meals, kidsbringing them everywhere that
they need to go, that you'retired, and sometimes it's just
easier to pick up those quickmeals.
SPEAKER_00 (26:23):
You are hitting the nail on the head because there's
a lot of things that we'redealing with that are hard.
A lot of really hard things.
And so, of course, we're lookingfor what's easy.
Of course, I mean it's here inyour story about how it was even
just kind of like subconsciousthere.
Like, I just need somethingthat's easy right now.
Not even necessarily about food.
(26:44):
This is just easy.
Yeah.
unknown (26:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:47):
Anyways, I had chicken and a tomato.
And it was it was really tasty.
Um, I've got like a gazilliontomatoes coming out of my garden
right now.
So I just um we can't even keepup with how many tomatoes we
have.
So maybe that was part of ittoo, is just having tomatoes
every day was was starting to bea lot, but I miss those days.
SPEAKER_00 (27:10):
I used to have the most kicken tomato garden, and
it's about five years overgrownright now, and it's really sad
looking.
SPEAKER_01 (27:18):
I miss those days.
We even we even come home andsometimes there's like tomatoes
on the porch because ourneighbors have given us
tomatoes, and we're like, wehave more than enough tomatoes
of our own.
Here, take some of ours.
So it uh it seems to all come atonce.
But yeah, no, I I made myselflook better lunge and I I think
I enjoyed it more because I didtake the effort.
But it is hard sometimes whenyou're really busy with kids to
(27:41):
come up with those healthiermeals when you're just you're
racing from one place toanother.
That you mentioned slowing downand slowing things down a little
bit just gives you that muchmore time to invest in, you
know, making healthier meals andtaking care of your body and
being able to move more often.
And I think that's that's reallyimportant.
(28:03):
But I tend to fill up my lifewith so many things that it's
hard to get those things done.
SPEAKER_00 (28:08):
We all do.
I mean, it's so very normal.
We're we're filling our livesup, and that's not a bad thing.
I think it's really just lookingat maybe periodically, asking,
okay, is this what I still wantto include here?
Or is this something that isgiving me energy?
Or is it all taking energy away?
(28:31):
My mom for years would alwayssay, Oh, you're so busy.
Oh my god, I'm not that thatbusy.
I'm doing what I want to do.
Yeah, like even now, she keepson saying, Oh, you're such a
busy person.
Like, you have no idea howglorious and slow my mornings
are.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
They are just delicious.
Like nobody can touch me, nobodycan talk to me, nobody can reach
me in the mornings becausethat's the way that I've set it
up.
And she's like, Oh, I can'treach you in the mornings.
You are so busy.
I'm like, Yes, you're right.
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
I'm not picking up my phone.
Don't tell her.
And you can keep thinking thatI'm busy.
I'm gonna keep taking mymornings to myself.
SPEAKER_00 (29:17):
I mean, we can talk about boundaries in all sorts of
different ways, but I gotta tellyou, one of the most amazing
ones is just saying, my phonedoes not signal anything.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
No.
That's amazing.
One of my favorite things thatwe had talked about earlier was
that we're not having enoughconversations about being bold.
Being bold in motherhood andbold in our career.
So, what does boldness actuallylook like for women?
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Oh my goodness.
So, again, everybody'sdifferent.
Okay.
And for me, okay, I keep onthinking, okay, me staying
within the confines of thisoffice.
That was my cozy spot, you know,being in the medical office.
Well, bold.
I was like, well, what else ispossible for me?
(30:04):
Where else can I go here?
What can I do if I'm not afraidto fail?
Which is really kind of like thevery beginning of me saying,
okay, this means getting outsideof my comfort zone of the
office.
If I'm left to myself, I wouldbe in my comfy pants and quiet
conversation all the time.
Like, not that I wear my comfypants at work, but you know what
(30:27):
I mean.
So I I'm very much an introvert,quiet person.
And being bold to me is like,you know what?
There's so much more impact thatyou can have in this world.
And it's not just staying in theoffice.
It's about going out and again,attempting failure.
(30:48):
Like really going out and like,you know, making faces at it and
like, I'm gonna try it.
I'm gonna taunt you.
I'm gonna go out and do bigthings.
And you know what?
If I don't fail, I didn't go outand try it big enough.
That is such a mind changer,game changer for me.
And I know I can definitely hearthe lessons of improv in that.
(31:10):
But if you also listen, it'slike the the lessons of growth
mindset.
It's really the lessons thatwe're trying to teach our kids
to be able to say, hey, go outthere, go play, go explore.
You don't know what you can door what you don't, you know,
what you can't do, what youenjoy, what you don't enjoy,
until you go and try it.
(31:32):
Well, I gotta take a page fromthat book for myself.
And I think that that's reallysomething that as we're trying
to teach our kids, we're tryingto, you know, open doors for
them, but we have to do itfirst.
It's not telling them what todo, it's really modeling.
And by the way, modeling doesnot mean this beautiful
airbrushed picture of exactlywhat it should look like.
(31:55):
Modeling it is saying, yeah, I'mdoing it too.
Look at what I'm learning andhow I'm growing all along the
way.
unknown (32:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
Yeah, I like how you uh how you're saying being bold
is just getting out there andseeing, seeing what you can do
and doing the things that youwant to do.
I felt kind of trapped when Iwas doing family medicine.
I think at one point I was doingalmost five, six days a week,
and then you're doing paperworkin the evening, and that was all
I was doing.
In the morning, you're preparingyour charts, then you're seeing
(32:25):
people, and you're doingpaperwork at night, and I was
just, I wasn't having fun.
I wasn't enjoying medicineanymore.
So then I was like, I'm justgonna work a little bit less.
And I wrote a book and I starteda podcast, and I just, I just
keep learning new things, andthen I'm really enjoying what
I'm doing, and I still get topractice medicine, and I'm
(32:47):
actually really, really enjoyingthe medicine that I'm practicing
as well.
I like it way more than when Iwas doing it full time and
didn't have all these otherinterests that I was taking a
chance out, right?
It's hard to put yourself outthere and write a book.
I like that bold thinking thatyou have.
SPEAKER_00 (33:05):
So when you were just describing there about
having fun, I think that that'sreally the thing that I use as
my indicator about burnout andalso my indicator for is this
something I'm gonna keep doing?
Because fun is such a tremendousvalue for me.
(33:27):
I mean, go figure.
I'm a pediatrician and acomedian.
Yeah, of course.
I really embrace fun.
And of course I do.
Like these are the things thatare really important.
This is what fuels me.
And so it's not necessarilyabout comedy or performance.
It's really about how can Ibring in different aspects that
(33:51):
I find are fun.
And so, yes, I've set up myclinical practice so that I have
a lot of fun.
I have a lot of fun in myclinical practice.
I've set up my coachingpractice, the way that I live
with my family.
It is about embracing funbecause that's what works for
(34:12):
me, for us.
And I mean, that if it works forme, it's gonna work, you know,
in that ripple for everybodyelse, including all the way out
to this is what works within mypractice.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:24):
So maybe how can we start practicing bold parenting?
SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
Great question.
You know, the boldest thingabout parenting doesn't look
like it's bold.
It actually looks and feels likeyou're doing nothing.
And that I really think is thekey part here.
It's slowing down and just beingthere with our children.
(34:49):
I think a lot of times we thinkthat bold is going to be like
big and lots of activity and youknow, again, the go, go, go type
of thing.
But I think that with parentingin particular, it's connecting
with our children, being therewith them wherever they are, and
they're going through a wholelot of stuff right now, and
they're really on the rollercoaster with growing up in our
(35:11):
society, in this environment,and all of the emotions all
along the way.
And so being bold is aboutsaying, I'm right here with you.
There's nowhere else that weneed to be right now.
There's nothing that needs to befixed, which is in and of itself
a pretty darn bold concept.
SPEAKER_01 (35:33):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (35:34):
Yeah.
But just connecting with, yeah,this is where you are, this is
where I am.
It's all it is right now.
Big part of slowing it down,right?
That is the slowing down inparenting, being right there
with our children.
It is so vastly needed and bold.
SPEAKER_01 (35:50):
I feel like I grew up in a household where like
maybe emotional regulation orboundaries weren't really
modeled for me.
So it was difficult for me whenit came uh with my own children
uh to just to just be therebecause I knew, you know, racing
off to soccer practice and thenracing off to piano lessons, and
(36:11):
it was it was all over theplace.
And um that's kind of what I hadin mind when I was parenting my
kids, and it just kind of madefor a lot of chaos at home.
And it's interesting.
I wonder sometimes what thingswould have been like if we would
have just slowed down quite abit more and just taken the time
to just be.
SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
I hear you on that.
I mean, it the way that ourgeneration has been raised, and
honestly, I mean, all thegenerations up to this point,
it's really been a lot of youknow, with emotions, there's a
time and a place for emotions,and it's never here, it's never
now.
It's always like you gotta savethat.
We're not doing that here.
(36:51):
We don't have time for that.
And of course, it was reallylayered on thick for me in
medical school.
Okay, we don't have time forthat in medical school.
And then the military, oh mygoodness, like on top of all of
it.
And so a lot of this is reallyseeing the opportunities to
(37:11):
unlearn the way that we havebeen taught, to see the parts
that we want to do differently.
And thankfully, our kids arelearning a lot in school about
social emotional learning.
We need it though.
We need it.
And so at the heart of gosh,everything that I do, it's
really about connecting withemotions.
(37:34):
I mean, really, we're we'retalking about connection and
relationships.
It's all emotions.
It's all about emotions.
Now, you know, a lot of us arelike, I don't I don't do
emotions.
Well, that's why I like to bringin the fun.
That's where I bring in theplay.
Because we don't even know thatwe're doing it.
We're just trying things on.
We're just we're just playing.
It's okay.
We're just playing.
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Yeah.
I've definitely put my emotionsoff to the side and just kind of
like, I don't have time to dealwith this now, but we never
really had time to deal withwith some of those feelings that
we are having.
And it's all about the logisticsof getting from point A to point
B and not really payingattention to what our needs are
in our own bodies and that thatneed for rest.
(38:17):
And I know we were talkingearlier, you have your mantra,
which has to do with sleep.
So maybe we can talk about sleepand rest for a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (38:28):
I would love to because I love sleep.
Everybody's like, oh, you doeverything about like food and
exercise.
And I'm like, actually, mymantra is sleep comes first.
Because if we are not gettingthe rest that we need,
everything else goes sideways.
All of it.
I mean, if you think about ourmental health, our eating
(38:49):
habits, our even like interestin moving at all, just plummets
when we're not getting the restthat our bodies need.
And so, you know, over thecourse of many years, of course,
I was focusing on childhoodnutrition and development and
mental health.
Well, I had a lot of differenttypes of evaluations that I
(39:12):
would say, tell me what's goingon.
Okay, now the one thing wehaven't talked about is your
child's sleep.
Before we go anywhere else here,we need to understand their
sleep.
Because if they're havingproblems focusing in school, if
we're having struggles withtheir behavior, with their
eating habits, with theirmotivation, interest in moving,
(39:32):
anything, we need to understandabout their sleep because it is
that critical to all of theother different aspects of their
bodies and their lives.
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
It's such an important piece.
And one thing that I've noticedis that when I start burning
out, it's usually because I'mtrying to get more hours in a
day.
There are so many things that Ineed to do that I need more
hours to get it done.
And that means I'm getting lesssleep.
So I'm going to bed later atnight.
I'm waking up earlier in themorning to get everything done.
(40:06):
And it's like sleep has almostbecome this thing that I can
negotiate.
Who needs eight hours?
I can survive on five.
And that's when you really startfalling behind on your energy
and your mood, and everythingjust starts to fall apart when
you're not getting that restthat you need.
SPEAKER_00 (40:22):
That's really important where you said that's
what I need to survive.
And I think that we need tothink about how when we are not
getting enough sleep, we'resurviving, but we are in
survival mode.
We are just holding on.
And I think about the chronicstress that we're under and in
all the time.
(40:42):
When we don't have that restfulsleep, we never get back to a
good baseline to be able to havesafety for healing.
And we're just like waking upagain and it's like time to make
the donuts, which yeah, oh mygosh.
I'm not sure if anybody elseknows that reference anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (40:58):
I do.
But we're just like getting up.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:00):
And getting up repeating, we just keep on
repeating it.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And so we keep on perpetuatingthe cycle.
And so, yeah, we're surviving,but that's all we're doing.
And we're getting ourselvestrained into this mode that our
brains are just like locked on.
I'm on fix it mode.
I gotta find the fires.
And there's plenty of fires toput out all day long.
(41:22):
That's all we're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
There's lots of fires, and you don't have to put
them all out yourself.
It doesn't have to fall all onyou.
It's okay to call on otherpeople to help out with some of
them.
So, what is one belief thatyou've completely needed to
unlearn about what it means tobe a good mom?
SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
Doing it all.
I need to do it all.
I need to do it all.
That is still something that Iam unlearning.
It takes a heck of a lot ofpractice.
I just have to lay there andclose my eyes and just remind
myself this is not all mine todo.
And for sure.
(42:01):
You know, it's something inagain with uh early COVID when
the world shut down and I was,you know, surrounded by three
kids, three teens, uh, who weresuddenly on lockdown in my house
and they wanted me to fixeverything.
And I initially was like, okay,how do we do this?
How do we move this all around?
(42:22):
I'm like, whoa, hold on.
Not my job, not my thing, not myrole.
Like, I can't fix all of this.
And so I I think that COVID wasthe greatest like instantaneous
lesson plan or opportunity toreally learn about oh my gosh,
there is nothing for me to doother than to be right here with
(42:42):
them.
So being bold was being like,yeah, this really stinks.
unknown (42:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:47):
And we're here together.
SPEAKER_01 (42:48):
Let's be bored.
Yeah, let's be bored together.
That's that's that's okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's not you don't always haveto be the one to entertain.
You can all just sit and learnto be by yourself.
Not my job.
Not my job.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Wendy, where can listeners findyou?
SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
Well, thankfully, as long as we have the right
spelling of my name, there'sonly one of me.
So I I am all over the placewith my website, so Wendy
SchauferMD.
You can also find me on Facebookand Instagram and YouTube, and
I'm now on the Tiki Talks.
So, and I say it that way everysingle time because it drives my
(43:32):
kids nuts.
SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
But really, my goal in life is to drive my kids
nuts.
SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
Yeah, I am winning it.
Totally doing it.
And then I also have my podcast,which is Family in Focus with
Wendy Schaufer MD.
And so if you happen to be inSoutheast Virginia, I may also
be on an improv comedy stage.
So come check it out.
SPEAKER_01 (43:53):
I love that.
You're sharing with us your freeclasses for parenting.
Yeah, you can find that on yourwebsite.
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Come on over to my website and Ihave regular classes that I hold
for parents that are aboutunderstanding emotional eating,
both our own emotional eatingand what we're seeing for our
children and how to be able tohelp without harm.
And so I welcome parents tocheck that out.
It's usually right on the verytop of the uh website that you
(44:22):
can join.
SPEAKER_01 (44:23):
And you've got a course that comes up that's
coming up in January, do younot?
SPEAKER_00 (44:27):
I do.
Thank you so much for bringingthat up.
So, yes, my uh Family in Focusprogram is a group program for
parents to be able to cometogether and say, you know what,
we want to be able to createthese relationships with food
and body and each other.
Meanwhile, decreasing the stressabout raising a healthy family.
(44:50):
And how do we do that?
Sprinkling in, making it easyand fun.
Well, that's family and focus.
So come check it out.
We've got our groups kicking offat the very beginning of
January.
SPEAKER_01 (45:02):
Amazing, amazing.
I'm gonna make sure that all ofthose links are in the show
notes and make sure that we canuh share them with the uh
listeners.
So, Wendy, I want to thank youfor being here today.
I really appreciated yourhonesty and your boldness, and
that's exactly what we need tobe good parents and good people.
So I'm so grateful that we wereable to have this conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
It's been such a pleasure, Angela.
Thank you so very much for theinvitation.
And you're welcome.
Uh it's that ongoing challenge.
How can I just be bold?
SPEAKER_01 (45:32):
And thanks to everyone who's out there hanging
out with us.
If you enjoyed today's episode,go ahead and hit follow or
subscribe so you don't misswhat's coming up next.
And if you want to keep theconversation going, you can find
me over on Instagram at drAngela Downey.
I would love to hear from you.
So take care for now.
You are doing better than youthink.
Thanks for spending time with metoday.
(45:53):
I hope something in this episoderesonated with you.
If it did, hit follow,subscribe, or share it with
someone who needs to hear ittoday.
The codependent doctor is notmedical advice and doesn't
replace speaking to yourhealthcare provider.
If you're in a crisis, please goto the nearest ER or call 911 or
reach out to your local mentalhealth helpline.
I'll be back here next week withmore support, stories, and
(46:15):
strategies because we're healingtogether.
Today's conversation is a deep dive into what it
really means to be bold, notjust in your career, but in
motherhood, your identity, andyour day-to-day life.
Dr.
Wendy Schaufer joins me to talkabout burnout, body image,
emotional regulation, and how webreak out of the roles that keep
us small.
It's honest, practical, andpacked with insights to stop
shrinking and start leading withboldness at home and at work.
(00:24):
Welcome to the CodependentDoctor, a podcast where we
unpack the messy, beautifuljourney of healing from
codependency.
If you're burned out from peoplepleasing, stuck in unhealthy
patterns, or just tired ofputting yourself last, you're in
the right place.
I'm Dr.
Angela Downey, a family doctorand fellow codependent, and I'm
here to help you reconnect toyour authentic self.
One honest conversation at atime.
(00:46):
Here we go.
I'm Dr.
Angela Downey, and I'm so gladthat you're hanging out with us.
I want to introduce you totoday's guest.
Dr.
Wendy Schofer is a dual boardcertified pediatrician,
lifestyle physician, improvcomedian, and trauma-informed
parenting coach.
As founder of Family in Focus,she's on a mission to help one
(01:08):
million parents relieve stress,strengthen relationships with
food, body, and family, anddesign homes where health feels
easy, joyful, and connected.
I'm so excited to have Dr.
Schaufer on today's show.
She brings such a bold andrefreshing perspective and being
unapologetically yourself.
Hi, Wendy.
It's so great to have you on.
(01:29):
How are you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
Great.
Thank you so much for theinvitation to join you here
today.
SPEAKER_01 (01:32):
So maybe we can start by having you introduce
yourself and tell us about yourjourney to becoming a
pediatrician and a lifestylephysician and a parenting coach.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
I never know exactly where to pick up the thread and
pick up the story.
And so a lot of times I'm justlike, hey, I'm Wendy.
I'm a girl who likes blackcoffee, long dog walks, and the
sound of laughter.
And to be honest with you, Ithink that covers a lot.
And yeah, I know people arelike, and tell me a little bit
more.
So yeah, I am a pediatrician.
(02:03):
I trained within the military.
I practiced within the military.
I retired from the military.
One of the greatest days of mylife.
But, you know, with the practicein the military, it's been
really cool because I got topractice with children, of
course, as a pediatrician.
And we are all generalphysicians as well.
And so I also got to practicewith adults.
(02:25):
And so I had quite a wide rangeof experiences in the military
after I got off of active duty.
I was doing a lot of work in thecommunity around the social
determinants of health and doingvolunteer work.
And one of the things that I wasdoing was actually researching
about diabetes preventionprograms for children and to
(02:48):
find the data for it and justwhat programs worked.
And that was when I actuallystumbled upon lifestyle
medicine.
And at the time I was readingit, I was like, hold on a
minute, focus on nutrition, onmovement, on sleep, on
connections, like all thesethings.
I'm like, I do this all thetime.
This is my practice.
(03:08):
I'm like, lifestyle medicine,this is a thing.
Like, yeah, there's a name forwhat I do.
It really resonated with me.
And so that was when I said, I'malready integrating this within
my practice, and I want tosurround myself with other
people that are also doing thissimilarly yet different, because
that's just the way that we doit.
SPEAKER_01 (03:28):
And the parent coaching, how did that come to
be?
SPEAKER_00 (03:30):
Great question.
So as a pediatrician, we allknow the drill.
During the well visits, I waslooking at growth charts and
hearing parents come in withworries about how their children
were growing, what they wereeating, mental health concerns,
use of electronics.
And I was like, I got you.
I know evidence-based medicine.
(03:52):
These are the prescriptions.
This is how you eat, how youmove, how much intensity of the
exercise to have for your child.
And I would write out aprescription and say, come back,
see me in three to six months.
And then they said, Hey, doc,this doesn't work.
We're failing this plan.
We're having fights, foodfights.
(04:13):
I'm making food that my kidsdon't want to eat.
I don't like to exercise.
Now I'm trying to make themexercise, and I'm finding canned
wrappers under the bed all thetime.
And the thing that really stuckwith me was when the parents
were saying, I'm failing.
I'm failing the plan.
I'm failing my kids.
I'm failing.
(04:33):
Like I have my own concernsabout my health and I can't help
my kids.
And that really stuck with mebecause I was facing the exact
same concerns in my own home.
Oh my gosh, those candy wrapperswere everywhere.
Facing those same concerns.
And I was thinking, you know, ifwe have parents that feel that
they're failing, these plansthat we're making, failing as a
(04:56):
parent, well, that's going toimpact the health of the whole
family.
And I mean, since then, it'ssomething where the Surgeon
General has even come out withthe concerns about parental
burnout and how that's impactingthe health of the family that is
really closely related rightthere, with parents feeling a
sense of failure andexperiencing stress and burnout.
(05:18):
And so I realized that there wasso much more to the conversation
than just me coming in as theexpert and saying, this is what
you do, because by the way, itwasn't working for the expert
either.
And so really looking at how dowe focus on what it is that we
actually want, which is a verybig shift in the conversation.
And so instead, I was like,let's focus on relationships,
(05:43):
relationship with food,relationship with bodies,
relationship with our eachother, and connection.
And that's the language ofcoaching.
That's totally the language ofcoaching.
I was doing more listening andreflecting what it is that they
were telling me.
And so I have my expertise, andso do the parents that I'm
(06:05):
working with.
And that's such a huge shiftbecause everybody wants to tell
everybody about how they are theexpert and they're going to tell
them how to fix their problems.
It's not working.
I mean, we've got all sorts ofexperts, whether it's, you know,
when we go to the medicaloffice, when we go scrolling on
Instagram, you know, whatever itis, when you go to the grocery
(06:28):
store.
Heck, the other day I was at anevent and a dad comes up and he
starts telling me about, youknow, this dynamic between him
and his wife, and all theseother people around us started
telling him what to do to fixit.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
What to do.
unknown (06:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
And it was like, oh my gosh, this is playing out in
real time right here.
unknown (06:46):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:47):
All that unsolicited advice.
So yeah, you've been open aboutyour own experience of burnouts.
Are you okay maybe taking usback to the moment and maybe
what was happening?
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
Wow.
So it's plural.
No.
Plural for the episodes ofburnout.
So um I I think that this storyactually goes hand in hand with
what I was experiencing in theoffice and professionally, as I
was feeling like I wasn't beingparticularly effective as a
(07:18):
physician to be able to helpthese families, let alone to be
able to help my own family.
And so just kind of spinning andfeeling so ineffective, that's
really exhausting.
So, you know, just kind of thatemotional burden that I was
taking with me.
And I didn't have the words forit, but I recognize that I've
(07:39):
gone through many differentcycles of burnout over time.
At that time, I thought that Ijust wasn't good enough, smart
enough, hardworking enough,dedicated enough, a good enough
mom, a good enough wife, all thethings.
It was all about me not beinggood enough in whatever way.
And I mean, I'm not somebodythat I would say is struggling
(08:02):
with self-esteem.
It's not something that I'mgoing around, you know, kind of
like Eeyore and, you know, oh,woe is me.
Woe is me.
Yeah.
And yet I was carrying thataround with me because while I
kept on getting that messagefrom others.
Well, if you just work harder,if you just work longer, if you
just figure out how to actuallypractice medicine and be a mom
(08:28):
at the same time, you can justfigure this all out.
And so it was just a recurrent,recurrent cycle that kept on
coming up.
But I didn't realize that thatwas the case.
It wasn't until honestly yearslater when there were a lot of
folks talking about burnout.
I was like, what the heck isthis?
Everybody keeps on talking aboutit.
Like, what is this?
Like, I don't understand.
(08:48):
And conveniently, this was inthe early days of COVID when the
world was shut down and I wascleaning out my closet because I
finally had some time to do it.
And I opened up to this box thatwas from that time frame when I
was really hitting the fan orhitting the wall.
Other things were hitting thefan.
And I pulled out this t-shirtthat I had not seen in years.
(09:12):
And it was a t-shirt that myhusband had made for me, gifted
to me for Christmas.
That on the front of it it hadthe hospital logo, and on the
back of it, it said a verychoice word that basically said
blank them all.
And you can fill in the blank.
I would not have thought ofmyself as being a pediatrician
with the sailor's mouth backthen.
(09:32):
But this was something that Iwould come home from work every
single day and I would say tohim, And it hit me when I opened
this up years later, that'sdepersonalization.
unknown (09:43):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:44):
That's what they're talking about with burnout.
So I knew the exhaustion, I knewthe ineffectiveness.
And then when I saw that'sdepersonalization, I'm trying to
like push everything away to beable to protect myself.
I'm trying to discount all ofthat because I'm just trying to
survive from one day to thenext.
And that was when I realizedthat was burnout.
(10:06):
Hold on a minute.
It is me too.
Yeah, we have many differentflavors of it, and this is such
a very common experience that wehave right now that's all
slightly different.
So let's really listen to well,what is your experience?
What's going on for you?
It may not look the same as thisperson over here.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
So, how do you think that you recovered from that?
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
What steps did you take?
Well, I mean, let's acknowledgethis is something that I think
is an act of recovery everysingle day because as much as I
talk about what's beyondburnout, it's not something
where it's like I've gotten toShangri-La and you know, never
burn out again.
I recognize what the indicatorsare for me.
(10:54):
Like when I am getting to thatpoint where I'm really
exhausted.
Overwhelm is a big part ofburnout for me.
When I am taking more things onthan what I can really execute
in a way that is meaningful andin a way that I feel that I want
(11:15):
to complete this.
And so it's more of kind of whatis, what is the word that I'm
looking for?
Kind of like a litmus test forit, or what is my my barometer
for experiencing those symptoms.
It's knowing myself.
And I think that that's reallyimportant to not paint this
picture of, you know, burnout issomething that you just like
(11:37):
move on and that's it.
You know, we've sutured this upand and you're gonna heal and
there's nothing else to do.
This is a human experience.
And we need to be able to reallybe aware of what we're
experiencing when we can seeourselves going down a path that
maybe we need to be mindful, ormaybe even say, you know what, I
(11:58):
need to back up, or I need toslow down, or I need to swerve a
little bit here.
SPEAKER_01 (12:01):
Yeah.
Um, do you think it was a matterof taking things off your plate?
Was it I'm sure it wasn't amatter of you just working
harder and giving more ofyourself?
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (12:12):
Was it calling on the support of others?
What what do you think helpedyou get through it?
SPEAKER_00 (12:16):
So I think, and thank you, because I did not
answer that question before.
I I think that one of thegreatest things that I recognize
was how I practice, how Iparent, you know, what it is
that I do at my best.
Where is it that I really shine?
And so a lot of the times when Ireally struggle professionally,
(12:39):
it was when I was doing thingsthat don't really align with me.
If you've heard me talking aboutconnection relationships, I'm
really big on connection andrelationships.
I am an amazing outpatientgeneral doc.
So general pediatrician, mentalhealth, growth, nutrition, like
(12:59):
bring it on.
We are going to really connectand understand and build a
relationship, and I want to seeyou over time.
Go figure.
I have a very hard time whenit's in critical care.
Back in residency, now Irecognize why I barely made it
through the NICU.
I'm trying to buildrelationships, and it's really
(13:20):
hard to build a relationship inthat critical care must fix now
situation.
And so that helped me understandI need to be focusing on the
relationships.
That's what really works for me.
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
And that's where it is with your values and what's
important to you.
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
Absolutely.
And where I am magical, by theway, and not always feeling like
I need to work harder, longer,faster, you know, all these
different things.
And it's like it's kind of likeclimbing uphill to something
that you're like, what's thepoint here?
Why am I doing this?
When I have this other placeover here where I just truly
shine.
(13:58):
And I think that working tostrengths, working to joy,
working to the things thatyou're like, this is what I want
more of.
I mean, that's been a completeshift for me in my clinical
practice and of course, youknow, building out my parent
coaching program and thatpractice and also with my
family.
SPEAKER_01 (14:17):
You've said that you're not failing, you just
haven't been supported.
So, what are some of thesupports that you needed but
didn't have back then?
And how did you start buildingthose supports?
SPEAKER_00 (14:28):
Yeah.
You know, it's funny that thewords of improv comedy come into
my head as soon as I think aboutthat.
And so at one of the times thatI was experiencing burnout, my
husband was deployed once again.
I was single parenting.
My kids were like oil and water.
So I came home from work and Isaid, do not hurt yourselves.
I'm going out tonight.
(14:49):
I need to hang with adults.
And I went to improv comedy andstarted learning there.
And one of the things that weteach in improv is, I've got
your back.
I've got your back.
It's one of the things that, youknow, we are just practicing all
along the way before everysingle show.
We go out there and we actuallytap each other on the back and
say, I got your back.
I got your back.
(15:11):
And I realized how that is somuch of what I needed.
I've needed all along the way tofeel like, you know what?
I'm gonna go out here.
I'm going out and really tryingsomething new.
Because I mean, the other thingwith improv comedy is that they
always tell you, go out andfail.
I'm like, I'm sorry, I'm adoctor.
(15:31):
I do not fail.
I'm a mom.
Are you kidding me?
I am not going out and trying tofail.
And the whole point is, well,you go out and try to fail.
Because if you're not, you'renot doing it big enough.
You're not trying somethingthat's outside of your comfort
zone.
And if we keep on staying in ourcomfort zone, it gets smaller
and smaller and smaller.
(15:53):
And so the combination ofchallenging myself to go out
there and fail, to not beafraid, to yeah, really be bold,
and to know that I've got my ownback and I've got others around
me too.
I mean, that whole village ofimprov was so important for me.
(16:14):
For just to be able to know thatyou've always got partners all
around you.
They've got your back.
SPEAKER_01 (16:20):
It sounds like that's what refilled your cup
and gave you more energy andmore life.
And I that might be differentfor different people too, right?
So re filling your cup might bereading or going to like a
knitting class or something, butfor you, that that's that's what
did it.
And I love that you foundsomething that you loved and
(16:40):
really helped you reconnect withyourself and with other people.
I also appreciate that you saythat it's important to be okay
with failing because I am aperfectionist.
I always have been, and itreally kept me trapped.
It prevented me from trying newthings that I've always wanted
to try.
And I heard a podcast one time,and the gentleman on the podcast
(17:03):
said, I want you to try and failat least four or five times a
month or something like that.
And I thought, why would I wantto do that?
But allowing myself to fail justallowed me to try new things.
And I thought that was just, itwas so liberating for me.
And and I would try something,and sure enough, I would fail.
And I'd be like, okay, wellthat's time number one.
(17:24):
I I have three more that I needto do this month.
But it really helped me get outof my shell.
So I I love that you weren'tafraid to try something new.
And even if one thing doesn'twork out, well, then maybe you
try another one.
But I love that you foundsomething that really resonated
with you and and really helpedyou fill up your cup.
SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
I would be lying if I said that that was one thing.
I mean, it's really like takinga little bit of a sprinkle here
and a sprinkle there, becauseyou know, in addition to that,
it was getting really goodsleep.
It was, you know, really kind ofslowing things down so that I
didn't have to keep on pushingall the time.
(18:03):
Like actually giving myselfpermission to slow down.
Oh my goodness, if you want anamazing book.
Oh my goodness, have you everheard of Rest is Resistance?
SPEAKER_01 (18:13):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
My goodness.
So it's written by a woman namedTrisha Kersey.
She also goes by the napminister.
Okay.
Okay.
If you got an awesome name likethat, yes, I'm listening.
Absolutely.
But her book is so powerfulabout how we don't need to earn
our rest.
(18:35):
We don't need to work so hard tofinally get to that place.
How this is truly the foundationfor everything that we do.
Our rest, our need, ourdeserving is inherent.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Sometimes I'm sitting on the couch and just
watching TV.
And somebody walks in the room.
I sometimes I jump.
I feel guilty that I'm sittingthere watching TV.
And I'm like, wow, I haven'tdone enough to deserve this,
right?
So, like, you shouldn't feelguilty for taking time to rest.
And this is something I need toremind myself of all the time.
(19:10):
It's something I've struggledwith for a long time, just
feeling like rest needed to beearned and I needed to do
everything else in the housebefore I actually got to sat sit
down with myself for 10 minutesand do something, just watch a
TV show.
It's terrible.
So you've talked about slowingdown to make life more
meaningful.
So, what does that look likewhen you're still working and
(19:32):
parenting and trying not to fallapart?
I love the third part there.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:38):
Well, I will admit that falling apart is a part of
the deal.
I mean, let's just firstacknowledge that.
I've had a really tough yearover the past year.
And there have been times whereI'm like, I'm falling apart
right now.
What do I need?
What do I need right now?
All sorts of differentchallenges that have been going
(19:59):
on.
And so I want to make sure thatwe can actually call that out
and embrace it and say, you knowwhat?
Falling apart does happen.
Absolutely.
What do you need to be able tosay it's okay?
I'm in a safe place, whateverthat is, creating safety.
And also we get back up again.
And part of that is that thatfailure thing.
(20:22):
I mean, in a way, it is thatwhole part about go out there
and fail.
Well, go out there and fallapart.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:28):
Falling apart can happen.
You need to learn to do what todo when that happens.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Yeah.
Well, and the things that I fallapart on, it's all stuff where
it's like, this has been reallymeaningful to me.
Something really big ishappening here and listening to
that.
So I think that slowing down isa big part to be able to embrace
that we will fail, we will fallapart, and we can refuel.
(20:57):
We can kind of like rebuild.
I think about uh Martha Becktalks about, oh I'm gonna mess
this story up, but kind of like,you know, in order for the
caterpillar to turn into thebutterfly.
And inside it's like it turnsinto like gobbledygoop,
absolutely nothing mush beforeit can re-emerge as the
(21:21):
butterfly.
She describes it much moreeloquently.
And yet, how many times do Irecognize I'm just in the
gobbledygoop mode right now?
And that's a part of theprocess.
There's no rushing for thecaterpillar to be able to become
a a butterfly.
unknown (21:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
It's kind of a vulnerable stage too, right?
When you you are a bitgobbledygoopish and any anything
can happen, but you just need tolike just get through that that
phase and whether or not thatmeans you need a therapist or
someone to talk to.
But but you do re-emerge, whichis the good thing to know.
SPEAKER_00 (22:03):
Absolutely.
It the reminder.
The reminder to have, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutthe relationship with food and
body and family.
Because you've said that theseare not separate things and that
they're all linked.
So can you talk about that alittle bit?
SPEAKER_00 (22:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
We are all growing up in asociety that is very focused on
the external.
So on weight, on bodies, ongrowth, like what we see
externally, and also on eatinghabits, you know, all the
different habits, but inparticular, I'm focusing on the
(22:42):
food part right now.
And it's something where we havebeen speaking a lot more in the
office and in the communityabout, well, I don't want my
child to have diet mentality.
I don't want them to haverestriction.
I don't want to seed eatingdisorders as I'm trying to help
them navigate how they'reeating.
(23:03):
I just want them to have ahealthy relationship with food.
And I was like, you know, wekeep on saying this, but does
anybody actually know what thatmeans?
Like, what does it mean to havea healthy relationship with your
food?
And so the more that I've beentalking with families, I was
like, this is actually whatwe're working on.
The more that we control food,the more that we manage it, the
(23:26):
less that we're actually havinga relationship.
Our relationship is all aboutour thoughts, our beliefs, and
the way that we feel about food.
Well, guess what?
We eat 90-some odd percent, andthat's totally my number,
90-some odd percent of the timewe are eating because of an
emotion.
Very rarely are we actuallyeating because of physical
(23:48):
hunger.
We're eating because you knowit, it feels good.
Where I'm celebrating, or I'mcoming together with other
people.
I mean, there's lots of forms ofemotional eating.
This is normal.
We are pretty much by definitionall emotional eaters.
And there's a lot of stuff thathappens in our lives where we
feel bad for whatever reason.
(24:10):
Exhausted, frustrated,overwhelmed, disappointed,
whatever it may be.
And we also turn to food becauseit's comforting.
It also just happens to bethere, like all the time.
And understanding ourrelationship with food is
understanding, well, what is therole that it plays in our lives?
Not with any kind of judgmentand saying, oh my god, I can't
(24:32):
eat that anymore, or you gottalike get rid of all of it.
But that's interesting.
I turn to food, food feelsbetter when I'm feeling
exhausted.
I would much rather oh mygoodness, I would always stumble
home and go right to the pantrywhen I was exhausted coming home
from from work.
unknown (24:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
Well, Doritos feel amazing when I'm exhausted.
Interesting.
Interesting.
And so it's really somethingabout just seeing those
connections.
That's really the relationship,seeing the the connections that
we have with our food.
And I try to slow things down asmuch as possible because we want
to jump in with the judgmentlike oh, this is bad.
(25:12):
Oh, I should stop doing this.
I need to do less of it.
I need to do somethingdifferently.
If you hear the word need, Ineed to.
You're like, okay, hold on aminute.
I'm trying to control where thisis going.
unknown (25:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
Earlier today, I was running errands.
I had to go to the dentist, Ihad all sorts of stuff going on,
and I passed by a McDonald's,and I thought, oh, I'm just
gonna go pick up something atthe McDonald's.
And then I was like, Am Iactually hungry?
Like, am I going there becauseit's it's just like, is it just
there?
What is it?
Am I feeling bad?
(25:44):
I knew I didn't really want totake the effort to make a lunch
when I got home.
This was just easier, but Iwasn't even hungry.
And yet the first thing thatpopped in my mind was to go and
buy something.
And I was like, I'm not hungry,I'm just gonna go home.
And you know, when I do gethungry, I'll make myself
something.
But it takes energy to make ahealthy meal.
(26:04):
So that bag of Doritos or thatfood that you pick up is just so
much quicker when you are tiredand you're managing so many
things, so many, you know, otherpeople's emotions, their
meltdowns, their meals, kidsbringing them everywhere that
they need to go, that you'retired, and sometimes it's just
easier to pick up those quickmeals.
SPEAKER_00 (26:23):
You are hitting the nail on the head because there's
a lot of things that we'redealing with that are hard.
A lot of really hard things.
And so, of course, we're lookingfor what's easy.
Of course, I mean it's here inyour story about how it was even
just kind of like subconsciousthere.
Like, I just need somethingthat's easy right now.
Not even necessarily about food.
(26:44):
This is just easy.
Yeah.
unknown (26:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:47):
Anyways, I had chicken and a tomato.
And it was it was really tasty.
Um, I've got like a gazilliontomatoes coming out of my garden
right now.
So I just um we can't even keepup with how many tomatoes we
have.
So maybe that was part of ittoo, is just having tomatoes
every day was was starting to bea lot, but I miss those days.
SPEAKER_00 (27:10):
I used to have the most kicken tomato garden, and
it's about five years overgrownright now, and it's really sad
looking.
SPEAKER_01 (27:18):
I miss those days.
We even we even come home andsometimes there's like tomatoes
on the porch because ourneighbors have given us
tomatoes, and we're like, wehave more than enough tomatoes
of our own.
Here, take some of ours.
So it uh it seems to all come atonce.
But yeah, no, I I made myselflook better lunge and I I think
I enjoyed it more because I didtake the effort.
But it is hard sometimes whenyou're really busy with kids to
(27:41):
come up with those healthiermeals when you're just you're
racing from one place toanother.
That you mentioned slowing downand slowing things down a little
bit just gives you that muchmore time to invest in, you
know, making healthier meals andtaking care of your body and
being able to move more often.
And I think that's that's reallyimportant.
(28:03):
But I tend to fill up my lifewith so many things that it's
hard to get those things done.
SPEAKER_00 (28:08):
We all do.
I mean, it's so very normal.
We're we're filling our livesup, and that's not a bad thing.
I think it's really just lookingat maybe periodically, asking,
okay, is this what I still wantto include here?
Or is this something that isgiving me energy?
Or is it all taking energy away?
(28:31):
My mom for years would alwayssay, Oh, you're so busy.
Oh my god, I'm not that thatbusy.
I'm doing what I want to do.
Yeah, like even now, she keepson saying, Oh, you're such a
busy person.
Like, you have no idea howglorious and slow my mornings
are.
SPEAKER_01 (28:49):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
They are just delicious.
Like nobody can touch me, nobodycan talk to me, nobody can reach
me in the mornings becausethat's the way that I've set it
up.
And she's like, Oh, I can'treach you in the mornings.
You are so busy.
I'm like, Yes, you're right.
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
I'm not picking up my phone.
Don't tell her.
And you can keep thinking thatI'm busy.
I'm gonna keep taking mymornings to myself.
SPEAKER_00 (29:17):
I mean, we can talk about boundaries in all sorts of
different ways, but I gotta tellyou, one of the most amazing
ones is just saying, my phonedoes not signal anything.
SPEAKER_01 (29:27):
No.
That's amazing.
One of my favorite things thatwe had talked about earlier was
that we're not having enoughconversations about being bold.
Being bold in motherhood andbold in our career.
So, what does boldness actuallylook like for women?
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Oh my goodness.
So, again, everybody'sdifferent.
Okay.
And for me, okay, I keep onthinking, okay, me staying
within the confines of thisoffice.
That was my cozy spot, you know,being in the medical office.
Well, bold.
I was like, well, what else ispossible for me?
(30:04):
Where else can I go here?
What can I do if I'm not afraidto fail?
Which is really kind of like thevery beginning of me saying,
okay, this means getting outsideof my comfort zone of the
office.
If I'm left to myself, I wouldbe in my comfy pants and quiet
conversation all the time.
Like, not that I wear my comfypants at work, but you know what
(30:27):
I mean.
So I I'm very much an introvert,quiet person.
And being bold to me is like,you know what?
There's so much more impact thatyou can have in this world.
And it's not just staying in theoffice.
It's about going out and again,attempting failure.
(30:48):
Like really going out and like,you know, making faces at it and
like, I'm gonna try it.
I'm gonna taunt you.
I'm gonna go out and do bigthings.
And you know what?
If I don't fail, I didn't go outand try it big enough.
That is such a mind changer,game changer for me.
And I know I can definitely hearthe lessons of improv in that.
(31:10):
But if you also listen, it'slike the the lessons of growth
mindset.
It's really the lessons thatwe're trying to teach our kids
to be able to say, hey, go outthere, go play, go explore.
You don't know what you can door what you don't, you know,
what you can't do, what youenjoy, what you don't enjoy,
until you go and try it.
(31:32):
Well, I gotta take a page fromthat book for myself.
And I think that that's reallysomething that as we're trying
to teach our kids, we're tryingto, you know, open doors for
them, but we have to do itfirst.
It's not telling them what todo, it's really modeling.
And by the way, modeling doesnot mean this beautiful
airbrushed picture of exactlywhat it should look like.
(31:55):
Modeling it is saying, yeah, I'mdoing it too.
Look at what I'm learning andhow I'm growing all along the
way.
unknown (32:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
Yeah, I like how you uh how you're saying being bold
is just getting out there andseeing, seeing what you can do
and doing the things that youwant to do.
I felt kind of trapped when Iwas doing family medicine.
I think at one point I was doingalmost five, six days a week,
and then you're doing paperworkin the evening, and that was all
I was doing.
In the morning, you're preparingyour charts, then you're seeing
(32:25):
people, and you're doingpaperwork at night, and I was
just, I wasn't having fun.
I wasn't enjoying medicineanymore.
So then I was like, I'm justgonna work a little bit less.
And I wrote a book and I starteda podcast, and I just, I just
keep learning new things, andthen I'm really enjoying what
I'm doing, and I still get topractice medicine, and I'm
(32:47):
actually really, really enjoyingthe medicine that I'm practicing
as well.
I like it way more than when Iwas doing it full time and
didn't have all these otherinterests that I was taking a
chance out, right?
It's hard to put yourself outthere and write a book.
I like that bold thinking thatyou have.
SPEAKER_00 (33:05):
So when you were just describing there about
having fun, I think that that'sreally the thing that I use as
my indicator about burnout andalso my indicator for is this
something I'm gonna keep doing?
Because fun is such a tremendousvalue for me.
(33:27):
I mean, go figure.
I'm a pediatrician and acomedian.
Yeah, of course.
I really embrace fun.
And of course I do.
Like these are the things thatare really important.
This is what fuels me.
And so it's not necessarilyabout comedy or performance.
It's really about how can Ibring in different aspects that
(33:51):
I find are fun.
And so, yes, I've set up myclinical practice so that I have
a lot of fun.
I have a lot of fun in myclinical practice.
I've set up my coachingpractice, the way that I live
with my family.
It is about embracing funbecause that's what works for
(34:12):
me, for us.
And I mean, that if it works forme, it's gonna work, you know,
in that ripple for everybodyelse, including all the way out
to this is what works within mypractice.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:24):
So maybe how can we start practicing bold parenting?
SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
Great question.
You know, the boldest thingabout parenting doesn't look
like it's bold.
It actually looks and feels likeyou're doing nothing.
And that I really think is thekey part here.
It's slowing down and just beingthere with our children.
(34:49):
I think a lot of times we thinkthat bold is going to be like
big and lots of activity and youknow, again, the go, go, go type
of thing.
But I think that with parentingin particular, it's connecting
with our children, being therewith them wherever they are, and
they're going through a wholelot of stuff right now, and
they're really on the rollercoaster with growing up in our
(35:11):
society, in this environment,and all of the emotions all
along the way.
And so being bold is aboutsaying, I'm right here with you.
There's nowhere else that weneed to be right now.
There's nothing that needs to befixed, which is in and of itself
a pretty darn bold concept.
SPEAKER_01 (35:33):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (35:34):
Yeah.
But just connecting with, yeah,this is where you are, this is
where I am.
It's all it is right now.
Big part of slowing it down,right?
That is the slowing down inparenting, being right there
with our children.
It is so vastly needed and bold.
SPEAKER_01 (35:50):
I feel like I grew up in a household where like
maybe emotional regulation orboundaries weren't really
modeled for me.
So it was difficult for me whenit came uh with my own children
uh to just to just be therebecause I knew, you know, racing
off to soccer practice and thenracing off to piano lessons, and
(36:11):
it was it was all over theplace.
And um that's kind of what I hadin mind when I was parenting my
kids, and it just kind of madefor a lot of chaos at home.
And it's interesting.
I wonder sometimes what thingswould have been like if we would
have just slowed down quite abit more and just taken the time
to just be.
SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
I hear you on that.
I mean, it the way that ourgeneration has been raised, and
honestly, I mean, all thegenerations up to this point,
it's really been a lot of youknow, with emotions, there's a
time and a place for emotions,and it's never here, it's never
now.
It's always like you gotta savethat.
We're not doing that here.
(36:51):
We don't have time for that.
And of course, it was reallylayered on thick for me in
medical school.
Okay, we don't have time forthat in medical school.
And then the military, oh mygoodness, like on top of all of
it.
And so a lot of this is reallyseeing the opportunities to
(37:11):
unlearn the way that we havebeen taught, to see the parts
that we want to do differently.
And thankfully, our kids arelearning a lot in school about
social emotional learning.
We need it though.
We need it.
And so at the heart of gosh,everything that I do, it's
really about connecting withemotions.
(37:34):
I mean, really, we're we'retalking about connection and
relationships.
It's all emotions.
It's all about emotions.
Now, you know, a lot of us arelike, I don't I don't do
emotions.
Well, that's why I like to bringin the fun.
That's where I bring in theplay.
Because we don't even know thatwe're doing it.
We're just trying things on.
We're just we're just playing.
It's okay.
We're just playing.
SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
Yeah.
I've definitely put my emotionsoff to the side and just kind of
like, I don't have time to dealwith this now, but we never
really had time to deal withwith some of those feelings that
we are having.
And it's all about the logisticsof getting from point A to point
B and not really payingattention to what our needs are
in our own bodies and that thatneed for rest.
(38:17):
And I know we were talkingearlier, you have your mantra,
which has to do with sleep.
So maybe we can talk about sleepand rest for a little bit.
SPEAKER_00 (38:28):
I would love to because I love sleep.
Everybody's like, oh, you doeverything about like food and
exercise.
And I'm like, actually, mymantra is sleep comes first.
Because if we are not gettingthe rest that we need,
everything else goes sideways.
All of it.
I mean, if you think about ourmental health, our eating
(38:49):
habits, our even like interestin moving at all, just plummets
when we're not getting the restthat our bodies need.
And so, you know, over thecourse of many years, of course,
I was focusing on childhoodnutrition and development and
mental health.
Well, I had a lot of differenttypes of evaluations that I
(39:12):
would say, tell me what's goingon.
Okay, now the one thing wehaven't talked about is your
child's sleep.
Before we go anywhere else here,we need to understand their
sleep.
Because if they're havingproblems focusing in school, if
we're having struggles withtheir behavior, with their
eating habits, with theirmotivation, interest in moving,
(39:32):
anything, we need to understandabout their sleep because it is
that critical to all of theother different aspects of their
bodies and their lives.
SPEAKER_01 (39:43):
It's such an important piece.
And one thing that I've noticedis that when I start burning
out, it's usually because I'mtrying to get more hours in a
day.
There are so many things that Ineed to do that I need more
hours to get it done.
And that means I'm getting lesssleep.
So I'm going to bed later atnight.
I'm waking up earlier in themorning to get everything done.
(40:06):
And it's like sleep has almostbecome this thing that I can
negotiate.
Who needs eight hours?
I can survive on five.
And that's when you really startfalling behind on your energy
and your mood, and everythingjust starts to fall apart when
you're not getting that restthat you need.
SPEAKER_00 (40:22):
That's really important where you said that's
what I need to survive.
And I think that we need tothink about how when we are not
getting enough sleep, we'resurviving, but we are in
survival mode.
We are just holding on.
And I think about the chronicstress that we're under and in
all the time.
(40:42):
When we don't have that restfulsleep, we never get back to a
good baseline to be able to havesafety for healing.
And we're just like waking upagain and it's like time to make
the donuts, which yeah, oh mygosh.
I'm not sure if anybody elseknows that reference anymore.
SPEAKER_01 (40:58):
I do.
But we're just like getting up.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:00):
And getting up repeating, we just keep on
repeating it.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And so we keep on perpetuatingthe cycle.
And so, yeah, we're surviving,but that's all we're doing.
And we're getting ourselvestrained into this mode that our
brains are just like locked on.
I'm on fix it mode.
I gotta find the fires.
And there's plenty of fires toput out all day long.
(41:22):
That's all we're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
There's lots of fires, and you don't have to put
them all out yourself.
It doesn't have to fall all onyou.
It's okay to call on otherpeople to help out with some of
them.
So, what is one belief thatyou've completely needed to
unlearn about what it means tobe a good mom?
SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
Doing it all.
I need to do it all.
I need to do it all.
That is still something that Iam unlearning.
It takes a heck of a lot ofpractice.
I just have to lay there andclose my eyes and just remind
myself this is not all mine todo.
And for sure.
(42:01):
You know, it's something inagain with uh early COVID when
the world shut down and I was,you know, surrounded by three
kids, three teens, uh, who weresuddenly on lockdown in my house
and they wanted me to fixeverything.
And I initially was like, okay,how do we do this?
How do we move this all around?
(42:22):
I'm like, whoa, hold on.
Not my job, not my thing, not myrole.
Like, I can't fix all of this.
And so I I think that COVID wasthe greatest like instantaneous
lesson plan or opportunity toreally learn about oh my gosh,
there is nothing for me to doother than to be right here with
(42:42):
them.
So being bold was being like,yeah, this really stinks.
unknown (42:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:47):
And we're here together.
SPEAKER_01 (42:48):
Let's be bored.
Yeah, let's be bored together.
That's that's that's okay.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It's not you don't always haveto be the one to entertain.
You can all just sit and learnto be by yourself.
Not my job.
Not my job.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Wendy, where can listeners findyou?
SPEAKER_00 (43:09):
Well, thankfully, as long as we have the right
spelling of my name, there'sonly one of me.
So I I am all over the placewith my website, so Wendy
SchauferMD.
You can also find me on Facebookand Instagram and YouTube, and
I'm now on the Tiki Talks.
So, and I say it that way everysingle time because it drives my
(43:32):
kids nuts.
SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
But really, my goal in life is to drive my kids
nuts.
SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
Yeah, I am winning it.
Totally doing it.
And then I also have my podcast,which is Family in Focus with
Wendy Schaufer MD.
And so if you happen to be inSoutheast Virginia, I may also
be on an improv comedy stage.
So come check it out.
SPEAKER_01 (43:53):
I love that.
You're sharing with us your freeclasses for parenting.
Yeah, you can find that on yourwebsite.
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
Come on over to my website and Ihave regular classes that I hold
for parents that are aboutunderstanding emotional eating,
both our own emotional eatingand what we're seeing for our
children and how to be able tohelp without harm.
And so I welcome parents tocheck that out.
It's usually right on the verytop of the uh website that you
(44:22):
can join.
SPEAKER_01 (44:23):
And you've got a course that comes up that's
coming up in January, do younot?
SPEAKER_00 (44:27):
I do.
Thank you so much for bringingthat up.
So, yes, my uh Family in Focusprogram is a group program for
parents to be able to cometogether and say, you know what,
we want to be able to createthese relationships with food
and body and each other.
Meanwhile, decreasing the stressabout raising a healthy family.
(44:50):
And how do we do that?
Sprinkling in, making it easyand fun.
Well, that's family and focus.
So come check it out.
We've got our groups kicking offat the very beginning of
January.
SPEAKER_01 (45:02):
Amazing, amazing.
I'm gonna make sure that all ofthose links are in the show
notes and make sure that we canuh share them with the uh
listeners.
So, Wendy, I want to thank youfor being here today.
I really appreciated yourhonesty and your boldness, and
that's exactly what we need tobe good parents and good people.
So I'm so grateful that we wereable to have this conversation.
SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
It's been such a pleasure, Angela.
Thank you so very much for theinvitation.
And you're welcome.
Uh it's that ongoing challenge.
How can I just be bold?
SPEAKER_01 (45:32):
And thanks to everyone who's out there hanging
out with us.
If you enjoyed today's episode,go ahead and hit follow or
subscribe so you don't misswhat's coming up next.
And if you want to keep theconversation going, you can find
me over on Instagram at drAngela Downey.
I would love to hear from you.
So take care for now.
You are doing better than youthink.
Thanks for spending time with metoday.
(45:53):
I hope something in this episoderesonated with you.
If it did, hit follow,subscribe, or share it with
someone who needs to hear ittoday.
The codependent doctor is notmedical advice and doesn't
replace speaking to yourhealthcare provider.
If you're in a crisis, please goto the nearest ER or call 911 or
reach out to your local mentalhealth helpline.
I'll be back here next week withmore support, stories, and
(46:15):
strategies because we're healingtogether.
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