July 14, 2025 • 30 mins
What does it really mean to heal? To connect? To drop our armor and find genuine relationships in a divided world? In this premiere episode of Couch Time with Cat, we flip the script as veteran journalist Melissa Correa interviews therapist, coach, and bestselling author Kat about the heart behind this new show.
Through an honest conversation between best friends, we explore how personal experiences – from postpartum depression and IVF journeys to healing childhood trauma – have shaped Cat's approach to therapy and life. "My heart breaks and grows every day," she shares, capturing the paradox of holding both devastation and hope that drives her work.
Using vivid metaphors about "marinating" in our environments, Cat explains how we absorb beliefs, patterns, and identities from those around us, often without realizing it. This awareness becomes our first step toward intentional living, deciding what to keep and what to discard from our upbringing and culture. She candidly dispels the myth of the perfect therapist, sharing moments of motherhood frustration that remind us we're all works in progress.
The conversation takes a powerful turn when discussing what Cat calls "level eight" – the deep human needs we all share beneath our surface identities. Beyond the tribal signaling of bumper stickers and social media posturing lies our universal yearning for genuine connection, safety, and being seen. Through small, seemingly simple interactions, we can create spaces where people feel safe enough to remove their armor and simply be themselves.
Whether you're deep in your healing journey or just beginning to wonder what that means, this show offers a gentle check-in and practical wisdom for navigating life's challenges. Join us as we explore the messy, beautiful work of becoming more authentically ourselves – and finding others brave enough to do the same.
Couch Time with Cat isn’t therapy—it’s real conversation designed to support your journey alongside any personal or professional help you're receiving. If you're in emotional crisis or need immediate support, please get in touch with a professional or reach out to a 24/7 helpline like:
- US: 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline)
- UK: Samaritans at 116 123
- Australia: Lifeline at 13 11 14
- Or find local resources through findahelpline.com
You’re not alone. Let’s take this one honest conversation at a time.
Follow the show and share it with someone who’s ready for healing, hope, and a more empowered way forward.
Show hosted by:
Catia Hernandez Holm, LMFT-A
Supervised by Susan Gonzales, LMFT-S, LPC-S
You can connect with Catia at couchtimewithcat.com
and
To become a client visit- catiaholm.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Couch Time with Cat, your safe place for
real conversation and a gentlecheck-in.
KWVH presents Couch Time withCat.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Couch Time with Cat mental wellness.
With a friendly voice.
I'm your host, Cat, a therapist, coach, best-selling author and
TEDx speaker.
I've spent years supportingpeople around the world as they
navigate healing, growth andeverything in between.
This show is a place for honestconversations.
It's where we take a breath,sit down together and talk about
(00:32):
the things that really matterOur struggles, our stories, our
hopes and our capacity to change.
We're coming to you fromWimberley Valley Radio, right
here in the heart of the TexasHill Country.
Whether you're deep in yourhealing or just starting to
wonder what that even means, youare welcome here.
(00:53):
Today marks the beginning ofthis show, and before we dive
into stories, guests and souldeep dialogue, I wanted to start
with something personal.
I believe if we're going totravel this journey together,
you should know who you'rewriting with, so I've invited
someone very special to me tohelp do just that.
Melissa Correa is a veteranjournalist, a seasoned
(01:17):
speechwriter and one of the mostrespected storytellers in media
.
She spent nearly two decadesasking the right questions and
giving voice to stories thatmatter, and she's also my best
friend, lucky me.
Melissa has seen me through themessy middles and the
breakthroughs.
She knows my heart my work andwhy I care so deeply about the
(01:39):
people I serve.
Today, she's flipping thescript and taking the mic to
interview me so you can get afeel for who I am, why the show
exists and what you can expectfrom our time together.
This is where our journeybegins.
Welcome, melissa, hi, welcomeback.
Welcome back, bienvenida.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Thank you so much.
You know, in the last episodewe really talked about kind of
the journey that you know foryou to get here, the education
where your career took you.
The word seemed to be turnedright.
So it's restaurant and barmanager turned writer, turned
TEDx speaker, turned consciousparenting coach, turned student
(02:25):
again, you know, to go back andget your degree so that you
could turn into a licensedmarriage and family therapist,
and so we took a look at howthat got you to where you are
today.
But breaking news, folks, she'sauthored two books and in both
of them I'm not spilling anyjuicy details that she hasn't
(02:46):
already spilled.
Yourself, Catia, you've reallyput it out there, these personal
traumas that have shaped thewoman you are today.
So let's talk a little bitabout the woman behind the mic.
Look at, maybe the last 10 to15 years of your life has
(03:09):
challenged you in a way that hasessentially encouraged you to
do the work that you're doingtoday.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Are you asking what events have pushed me toward
this path?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yes, yes, I am, yes, yes, I am.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Wow For sure, becoming a mother twice over,
that has been completely lifechanging from the inside out.
Both times I experiencedpostpartum depression.
My second baby came to us, Isay, with a mix of God and IVF,
so going through an IVF journeywas really challenging.
Being a married woman andcreating a marriage that I
really love and that we lovetogether, that has been that I
(04:09):
really love and that we lovetogether, that has been
fortifying from the inside outand creating friendships and
sustaining them and cultivatingthem.
That has led me here also.
And then mostly well, maybe notmostly, but additionally healing
journey healing from childhoodtraumas or traumas that I
experienced as a young woman.
Every time I heal that part, Isee the world a little
(04:35):
differently, and as I heal andas I look at my own really
challenging experiences, I haveso much more compassion for
other people, and so I oftenlike to say my heart breaks and
grows every day.
It's just.
I hold the tension betweenabsolutely devastated because
(04:58):
people have to endure, and thenalso so incredibly hopeful
because people do endure andthey grow and they hope and they
reach for better and more peaceand more love, and so it's that
combination that led me to be atherapist.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Who were some of your clients?
Who were some of these peoplewho you've broken, grown with?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
They are from all walks of life and the main
through line is that they'rewilling to have somebody walk
with them.
That is the most courageouspart To me.
I've been a client of atherapist.
All good helpers get help, Isay, and sometimes that's the
(05:47):
scary part.
I was actually talking tosomebody yesterday and she said
the scariest part of finding atherapist is walking into the,
is finding one making theappointment and walking in.
That was her experience.
I was talking to a friendyesterday and so I know that
that is a big leap for people.
(06:07):
It's a big leap for me to trustsomebody with my story and so,
even though they come from allwalks of life, that's the
through line.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Is it primarily women ?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I see men, women, couples, families, so that's
multiple people in the room atthe same time.
Really anybody who?
My training allows me to seeall ages.
I primarily focus on 18 and up,but I can certainly help and
support an adolescent if theyneed it.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
You know I'll say as your best friend, I've won the
lotto of having a BFF who's atherapist Because I've called
Katya a time or two with my ownpersonal dramas and you've and
you've guided me throughmeditations and breathing
exercises and really held myhand as I see the other side.
You know your, your businessacumen says marriage and family
(07:05):
therapy.
I am not married, nor do I havechildren of my own.
I don't have my own family, butyou very much help me in so
many ways.
Also know that you've workedwith, with teenagers.
What do you want people to knowwhen they hear marriage and
family therapists?
Do you gotta have?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
both to get your help .
That's a really great question.
That training, all it means, isthat that's how I was trained.
So there are two differentdesignations.
There's something calledlicensed professional counselor
and they are trained toprimarily work with the one
individual and work with thepresenting problem.
(07:48):
I am a licensed marriage andfamily therapist associate.
I am a licensed marriage andfamily therapist associate.
My training says that I thinkof things in terms of context
and system.
So even though I work withindividuals, when they come to
me with their problem, mytraining is such that I think
about their whole work system ortheir family ecosystem or their
(08:11):
friend system or the culturalsystem.
So I'm not saying, oh Melissa,your problem is really xyz.
I really take it much broaderand think where is Melissa in
context to her colleagues, herfamily, her culture, what is
(08:31):
happening in the entire system?
So a marriage and familytherapist thinks in a systems
context and so no, you don'thave to be married or have
children to come see me.
That's just.
It's just a systems way ofthinking.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
But how much of our childhood, of our family, of our
friends who we choose to bringinto our lives because we think
they're enriching our lives?
How much do all these otherplayers have in my starring role
show?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
100%.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So much.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
So much, yes, so much .
Speaker 1 (09:12):
You know this for a fact.
You know this from your ownlife.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I know this from my own life, I know it from my
client experiences, I know itfrom it is we are marinating in
the people that we are around.
So if you put a piece ofchicken in a lime marinade, it's
going to absorb the lime.
(09:37):
These are our family andfriends.
Yeah, we are the chicken.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
So the decision Tough news for me I'm a vegan.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
What do you marinate?
Mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I guess, so Sweet potato yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Something we are absorbing the essence of the
people around us, the cities welive in, the churches we go to.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
And we don't know this is happening right,
impacted and, and dare I say,influenced.
You know, in the, in the lifeand times that we live in, that
so many people actually arecontrolling the way we think and
the decisions we make.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Does that take people by surprise?
It takes a lot of people bysurprise.
I'm in a little bit of a siloBecause my friends are very
emotionally aware I think thatI've self-selected, you know, as
I age, that type of profile ofperson, because that's really
important to me and I want thepeople in my life to be loving
(10:48):
and kind and open and I in turnwant to be like that for them.
So the people in my life do.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
But do you think you got there because you've done
the work?
Do you think you were selectingthe same type of people 20
years ago?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Oh no, not even close .
Speaker 1 (11:06):
See yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I see what you're saying.
No, this was not always how Ioperated.
No, no, no, no, I didn'tunderstand that I was marinating
and as I have understood thatmore, I've been more deliberate
in my choices.
In friends, in churches, in thebooks I read, in the music I
listen to.
But this is often one of thevery first conversations I have
(11:28):
with clients.
I take them through thismetaphor about basically take
them through this metaphor aboutbasically marinating.
I use an apple and an onion asan example and I say this is
where your autonomy comes in.
You get to decide whether youwant to absorb those essences,
if you're okay with that, or ifyou want to let some rest, if
(11:52):
you want to let some go by thewayside.
Because this wasn't always you.
This is what culture imposed onyou, or the decade imposed on
you, or your parents, orreligion imposed on you, or your
caregivers or friends, whateverit is.
This is not the way you are ornor have always been.
This was an idea that youabsorbed as truth because you
(12:14):
were too young to do anythingotherwise.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
So for folks who decide to go on this journey
with you and listen to the show,is change as simple as removing
the onion or the apple from themarinade and poof, you don't
have the issue again.
Or in so many ways.
How long does it take to takethe stink off In so many ways?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
how long does it take to take the stink off?
That's a great question.
The first point is awareness.
Once you're aware that you'vebeen marinating, a lot changes.
There isn't a prescription oftime that I can say, oh, it'll
(12:58):
take six months.
But once that awareness happens, you really change the way you
see the world and it changes theway you interact with people
and you start to think wait, doI want this?
Or it's just the way it'salways been, so to speak, and so
slowly, decision by decision,you get to start deciding maybe
I do want this, great, maybe Idon't want it at all.
And so the client becomes theyreally have a huge sense of
(13:23):
agency in their own life.
So, instead of autopilot,you're choosing what you want.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And so is therapy a straight line, or is it like the
squiggle of your own life, thework.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
It is most definitely a squiggle, but I think that
that should be comforting.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, to the patient right, Because they're going to
try.
They're exploring a newboundary.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Most definitely.
You're exploring, you'regetting to know yourself in a
new way.
You decide you don't want to gothat way.
That's right.
And also the people in yourlife are getting used to this
new person.
So we are not people in vacuums.
You know we exist, like I saidin a context.
So as you change, I get to seethat and I get to hold space for
(14:08):
that and then I get to decidedo I want to change with you or
not?
Yeah, you just got a new dog.
I did Pop-Tart, pop-tart.
I love Poppy.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I call her a biohazard terrorist.
She is not potty trained yet,but we're getting there and it's
interesting.
Looking at Pop-Tart, because Ilove her, I know that I got her
from a rescue.
I know that her previous ownersurrendered her, so I know that
she wasn't properly trained, shewasn't cared for.
(14:42):
We're going to get her teethcleaned and so really, in
looking at Pop Tart, katya, I'veseen her as people.
I wouldn't go so far as sayingmen are dogs or women are dogs,
but maybe we are dogs and so itgives me a lot of grace for
people.
Right, we're all carrying ourown things.
We've all maybe been mishandledor not cared for or don't have
the right training or the skillsyet, but we get there.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
It's new and it's tedious until it's not yes, and
you're my best friend, and thisis a change that you've decided
to make.
Yes, and now you've decided tomake it, and now I've decided to
make it too Right.
We got Pop-Tarts, treats andtoys, but that's just an example
of somebody in my life ischanging and now I'm deciding to
(15:29):
change with them.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
But that's not easy.
Sometimes that takes a lot ofother people off their autopilot
, yes, and we get pushback withthose family and friends.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yes, and something I like to encourage or just drop
or leave and tell my clients isyou've been working on this
change with a professional,whoever you're interacting with,
who's now experiencing thischange.
They're experiencing it for thefirst time.
So just give them a minute.
Be a pop star.
Yeah, have some grace.
(16:00):
Yeah, let them come into thisnew space on their own time.
That's going to keep theconnection, build the
relationship, instead of givingan ultimatum like I'm going to
change and if you don't like it,you can't be in my life.
That's not a productiveapproach.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, okay, you know we're exploring how you got to
where you are today and in thefirst episode we kind of very
quickly cliff-snowed through youknow your career, from working
in restaurants and bars toeventually becoming a licensed
therapist.
You mentioned you have twodaughters and you are happily
(16:38):
married.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And you are a therapist, just telling us to
take it easy and give everybodygrace.
Is your life just so easy now?
Is everybody in your home justwell adjusted?
And mother, may I, and how canI help you today?
Do you no longer have problemsnow that you're a therapist?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I'm thinking of something completely
inappropriate.
A few years ago, I was in thebathroom and my kids were
fighting.
I was in the bathroom, if youknow what I mean, and I
absolutely lost it, Like abanshee.
I was screaming from the top ofmy lungs stop fighting.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
You make it sound so lovely with a giggle.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
It was not my proudest moment as a mother, as
a woman, as anybody.
I thought, wow, what has mylife come to?
I'm screaming from the pot.
So, no, no, no, things are notsmooth sailing.
I think that the skills that Ihave decided to value and
(17:53):
cultivate and to lead my lifeare that I want to set my kids
up for success emotionally andtheir well-being and keeping
them safe and loving them well,and so I lead with that and no
matter how difficult things get.
That is those are my values,period.
(18:15):
I'm going to love my husbandand my children and my home.
Everything else comes secondand that's hard, that's really
hard.
You know I want to live in theworld with grace and kindness
and love, also not just with me.
You know I want to be anintegrated human being and that
(18:36):
challenges me.
I want to be the same person inmy home that I am at CVS, that
I am with you, that I am at therestaurant, that I am with my
clients.
So I really challenge myself tobe my best, to lead with my
best values and intentions andwalk through the world that way.
I don't enjoycompartmentalizing like I'm a
(18:59):
good person here and I'm abanshee over here.
That's not how I operate, sothe more I can integrate and the
more I can be values-led.
Times will be challenging,things will be hard, but that
doesn't matter, because I'mgoing to lead with my values,
whether it's challenging or not.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I mean, if that's not a speech for the rest of us in
2025, I don't know what is.
Because my question to you isand I guess I don't know how you
would actually gauge this butwho do you think you would be if
you didn't have the skills, theexperiences, you know, the
foresight and the education toget through the world we're
(19:42):
living in today?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I think I'd be highly medicated and I think I'd be
scrolling on social media tillmy finger got numb To distract
yourself.
Yeah, because the world isheavy.
The world is so heavy and sochaotic and I don't understand a
lot of it, and sometimes it'stoo big for me to even try to
(20:06):
comprehend.
The heartache is unimaginable.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Do your clients talk about just the experiences that
they're having with the world,or is your work in your
therapist's office so niche andfocused on family and friend
experiences?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
It's most definitely what's happening in the world.
We're healing childhood traumas, but also our other traumas,
but what is happeninggeopolitically makes my clients
and everybody turns our triggerson.
We all of a sudden don't feelsafe, or we're coming from a
(20:45):
scarcity mindset, or we'refeeling more tribal, and I have
a lot of grace for that, becausethese are biological functions.
We are meant to want to staysafe and together, and so, as I
see these things unfolding ontelevision or in the news, I
know that a lot of this isdriven by biology, just like
(21:08):
pack mentality, pack mentality,fight or flight.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And also, too, social media.
Right, you said, people want tosurvive, people want to feel
safe, people want to get in agroup, and so we're talking
about even if you're on socialmedia the trends, the
influencers, the differentthings.
So much of society wants us topick a team and then stay there.
But I go back to something youwere just talking about a few
(21:33):
minutes ago, saying you want tobe the same person in this
situation, that situation, anddon't forget the other situation
.
You can't be equal footing inall of these different scenarios
if you're all in on one bucket,unless the bucket, I guess, is
kindness.
So what's the message you wantlisteners to take away, your
(21:57):
clients to take away?
What do we need to see to kindof drown out the noise, get off
of autopilot, so to speak, andreally navigate the world
authentically ourselves?
Speaker 2 (22:10):
If we can take a minute and realize all the
points of armor that we put onbefore we leave the house.
That is a Brene Brown-ism, I'llcall it.
She talks about armor.
So what?
We're wearing the bumpersticker on our car, the flag we
have in our driveway, what teamwe root for, the jewelry we wear
(22:35):
, whatever it is.
We're all wearing these piecesof identity.
We are showing who we are as wewalk into a room or as we drive
down the road, and sometimes Ithink we're trying to signal to
our fellow tribe members like,look, I belong here.
Or sometimes, conversely, look,I don't belong here, wherever
(22:58):
it is that you're landing.
But you're trying to send amessage, but know that the other
person that's wearing the armoris also wearing armor.
They are also trying to belong,they're also trying to stay
safe, they are also just tryingto make it.
And so if we can look at peopleand just realize, oh, I see
(23:22):
that they're acting prickly, butactually they're just hungry or
actually they just got let gofrom their job or actually and
that's not excusing all badbehavior by any means, but it
is- it allows us not topersonalize it.
Yes, and also to connect at adeeper level.
What we're wearing, where we'reeating, where our kids go to
(23:45):
school, who you voted for, allthese types of things are levels
one, two, three, four ofsurface.
I need you to get to leveleight.
What's level eight?
What we said, why we createdthis show, our hopes, our fears,
our dreams, what we really longfor and yearn for all of that
(24:08):
on level eight is pretty muchthe same.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And so, what are people going to see you for?
What is the help?
Do they want to fit in atschool?
Do they want to be stylish andtrendy?
What seems to be, in doing thework here in the hill country,
the eight that people areseeking?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
They want real connection.
That sounds so cliche, but it'sreally not.
They want deep friendships.
They want marriages that aresafe and loving.
They want to date people thatare kind and lovely.
They want a community groupthat they can go to when
(24:49):
something floods at their house.
They want connection.
They want to be seen and theywant to be comfortable in their
own skin.
You are the person I feelprobably most comfortable with
in the world.
Right, I can wear pajamas.
It doesn't matter what I'mwearing.
I'm not going to impress you.
I'm also going to not unimpressyou.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
You're just going to be loved.
That's right.
You're safe and fine, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I'm not going to impress you.
I'm also going to not unimpressyou.
You're just going to be loved,you're safe and fine, that's
right.
I'm trying to change you.
You're going to hold my hand,we're going to laugh, we're
going to be silly, and that's areal gift I have in you, and not
everybody has that.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Thank you, I love you , I love you too.
Can people get to that pointthrough this radio show?
Is that what you're hoping for?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I am just desperate for it for people.
The people I feel mostcomfortable around are the ones
who are the most comfortable intheir own skin, and I try to be
that, not to say that I'm likethat all the time, but part of
being an integrated person, likeI was saying earlier, is being
comfortable, not having thatarmor, really saying take off
(25:57):
your shoes, be comfy, beyourself.
I am not leading with anartifice and I hope you won't
either.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
You're also not trying to get people to go into
your office.
This is truly a conversationyou're having with your
community, with your neighbors,in their safe space.
Maybe it's on their drive towork, maybe it's at home, maybe
it's, you know, in the privacyof their living room or their
office during a lunch break.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Maybe they're mowing the lawn.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Well, I hope they can crank up the volume if they're
doing that.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
A lot of people listen to music while they're
mowing the lawn.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
I'm a downtown girl but I know that you're going to
offer up and invite engagementwith this show.
So, as folks are kind offiguring out if they're going to
give the next episode a secondchance, what are some of the
topics?
What are some of the questions?
What are some of the questions?
What's some of the feedback youhope you hear from listeners?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Ultimately, I would love the feedback to be you
encouraged me to invite myneighbor over for spaghetti and
we sat in our pajamas and we hadtea and spaghetti, or we had a
glass of wine and spaghetti andwe laughed and we watched the
Nate Bargatze show together.
Like that would be a dream Ifeverybody could have that space
(27:19):
where they could just relax intowho they are.
Yeah, that connection pointmakes all the difference in how
you handle your day the next day.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, big and bold doesn't require you jumping out
of a plane.
No, Sometimes it's taking astep forward and asking a
question.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yes, or can I go to your house, or come over to my
house, or let's play Uno.
I mean these such, such, such,such simple connection points.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Even parents asking their kids are you doing okay.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yes, tell me.
The other day I was lying downon the trampoline with my
youngest.
I said what's hard for youlately?
And she told me and I said doyou want help with that?
And she said yeah.
So I helped her out and now shehas one less hard thing.
Yeah, these are just simplequestions.
I didn't have to spend anymoney on her.
That's what you get when yourmom's a therapist.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, the feedback you're hoping is that people
take leaps in, whatever thatlooks like in their life.
The questions, the you know,the asks that you hope listeners
have for you Do they have to beeloquent and thought provoking?
Do they have to have the rightlanguage to explain what they're
feeling?
(28:36):
What are you looking for?
What can we send you?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Oh, thank you.
That's a great question.
I'm looking for real questions.
I'm going to call them likehotshot questions, anything.
I'm having this disagreementwith my daughter how can I
connect with her better?
Or my husband and I keeparguing about how we load the
dishwasher.
How do we get through that, youguys?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
have had that argument.
We had it for 10 years.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I'm an expert.
I was not the expert.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I would never ask who won.
We both know it was not you.
Yeah, ask who won.
We both know it was not you.
Yeah, but people can posescenarios without being too
detailed or simply say I'mfeeling uncomfortable at work,
how do I navigate this?
Yeah, and you genuinely canhelp them I can genuinely help
(29:27):
them and you're bringing inexperts, I'm bringing in experts
.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I'm bringing in a trauma therapist perspective.
You're bringing in experts.
I'm bringing in experts.
I'm bringing in a traumatherapist perspective.
I'm bringing in all my toolsthat I use in the therapy room.
While it's not therapy per se,because it's a radio show, it is
supportive and it is a way tohelp people get over those
hurdles that are maybe holdingthem back, and my ultimate hope
(29:51):
is that they rest and accept whothey are and embrace who they
are, and that they can findsomebody else who will do the
same.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Well, listen, I appreciate you sharing more of
your story, going through thethings and the experiences and
motherhood that has changed andcolored your life.
Thank you, madsie, this is aspace for our stories, our
struggles and our hopes, andyou're part of that too.
So you, Madsie.
This is a space for our stories, our struggles and our hopes,
and you're part of that too.
So thanks for sharing with us.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Thank you, Melissa.
Thank you for being here.
If this conversation clarifiedsomething for you or helped you
feel a little more seen, pleaseshare it with someone you care
about.
You can follow along for moregrounded, soulful conversations
and know that this space is hereto support you.
Welcome to Couch Time with Cat, your safe place for
real conversation and a gentlecheck-in.
KWVH presents Couch Time withCat.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to Couch Time with Cat mental wellness.
With a friendly voice.
I'm your host, Cat, a therapist, coach, best-selling author and
TEDx speaker.
I've spent years supportingpeople around the world as they
navigate healing, growth andeverything in between.
This show is a place for honestconversations.
It's where we take a breath,sit down together and talk about
(00:32):
the things that really matterOur struggles, our stories, our
hopes and our capacity to change.
We're coming to you fromWimberley Valley Radio, right
here in the heart of the TexasHill Country.
Whether you're deep in yourhealing or just starting to
wonder what that even means, youare welcome here.
(00:53):
Today marks the beginning ofthis show, and before we dive
into stories, guests and souldeep dialogue, I wanted to start
with something personal.
I believe if we're going totravel this journey together,
you should know who you'rewriting with, so I've invited
someone very special to me tohelp do just that.
Melissa Correa is a veteranjournalist, a seasoned
(01:17):
speechwriter and one of the mostrespected storytellers in media
.
She spent nearly two decadesasking the right questions and
giving voice to stories thatmatter, and she's also my best
friend, lucky me.
Melissa has seen me through themessy middles and the
breakthroughs.
She knows my heart my work andwhy I care so deeply about the
(01:39):
people I serve.
Today, she's flipping thescript and taking the mic to
interview me so you can get afeel for who I am, why the show
exists and what you can expectfrom our time together.
This is where our journeybegins.
Welcome, melissa, hi, welcomeback.
Welcome back, bienvenida.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Thank you so much.
You know, in the last episodewe really talked about kind of
the journey that you know foryou to get here, the education
where your career took you.
The word seemed to be turnedright.
So it's restaurant and barmanager turned writer, turned
TEDx speaker, turned consciousparenting coach, turned student
(02:25):
again, you know, to go back andget your degree so that you
could turn into a licensedmarriage and family therapist,
and so we took a look at howthat got you to where you are
today.
But breaking news, folks, she'sauthored two books and in both
of them I'm not spilling anyjuicy details that she hasn't
(02:46):
already spilled.
Yourself, Catia, you've reallyput it out there, these personal
traumas that have shaped thewoman you are today.
So let's talk a little bitabout the woman behind the mic.
Look at, maybe the last 10 to15 years of your life has
(03:09):
challenged you in a way that hasessentially encouraged you to
do the work that you're doingtoday.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Are you asking what events have pushed me toward
this path?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yes, yes, I am, yes, yes, I am.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Wow For sure, becoming a mother twice over,
that has been completely lifechanging from the inside out.
Both times I experiencedpostpartum depression.
My second baby came to us, Isay, with a mix of God and IVF,
so going through an IVF journeywas really challenging.
Being a married woman andcreating a marriage that I
really love and that we lovetogether, that has been that I
(04:09):
really love and that we lovetogether, that has been
fortifying from the inside outand creating friendships and
sustaining them and cultivatingthem.
That has led me here also.
And then mostly well, maybe notmostly, but additionally healing
journey healing from childhoodtraumas or traumas that I
experienced as a young woman.
Every time I heal that part, Isee the world a little
(04:35):
differently, and as I heal andas I look at my own really
challenging experiences, I haveso much more compassion for
other people, and so I oftenlike to say my heart breaks and
grows every day.
It's just.
I hold the tension betweenabsolutely devastated because
(04:58):
people have to endure, and thenalso so incredibly hopeful
because people do endure andthey grow and they hope and they
reach for better and more peaceand more love, and so it's that
combination that led me to be atherapist.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Who were some of your clients?
Who were some of these peoplewho you've broken, grown with?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
They are from all walks of life and the main
through line is that they'rewilling to have somebody walk
with them.
That is the most courageouspart To me.
I've been a client of atherapist.
All good helpers get help, Isay, and sometimes that's the
(05:47):
scary part.
I was actually talking tosomebody yesterday and she said
the scariest part of finding atherapist is walking into the,
is finding one making theappointment and walking in.
That was her experience.
I was talking to a friendyesterday and so I know that
that is a big leap for people.
(06:07):
It's a big leap for me to trustsomebody with my story and so,
even though they come from allwalks of life, that's the
through line.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Is it primarily women ?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I see men, women, couples, families, so that's
multiple people in the room atthe same time.
Really anybody who?
My training allows me to seeall ages.
I primarily focus on 18 and up,but I can certainly help and
support an adolescent if theyneed it.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
You know I'll say as your best friend, I've won the
lotto of having a BFF who's atherapist Because I've called
Katya a time or two with my ownpersonal dramas and you've and
you've guided me throughmeditations and breathing
exercises and really held myhand as I see the other side.
You know your, your businessacumen says marriage and family
(07:05):
therapy.
I am not married, nor do I havechildren of my own.
I don't have my own family, butyou very much help me in so
many ways.
Also know that you've workedwith, with teenagers.
What do you want people to knowwhen they hear marriage and
family therapists?
Do you gotta have?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
both to get your help .
That's a really great question.
That training, all it means, isthat that's how I was trained.
So there are two differentdesignations.
There's something calledlicensed professional counselor
and they are trained toprimarily work with the one
individual and work with thepresenting problem.
(07:48):
I am a licensed marriage andfamily therapist associate.
I am a licensed marriage andfamily therapist associate.
My training says that I thinkof things in terms of context
and system.
So even though I work withindividuals, when they come to
me with their problem, mytraining is such that I think
about their whole work system ortheir family ecosystem or their
(08:11):
friend system or the culturalsystem.
So I'm not saying, oh Melissa,your problem is really xyz.
I really take it much broaderand think where is Melissa in
context to her colleagues, herfamily, her culture, what is
(08:31):
happening in the entire system?
So a marriage and familytherapist thinks in a systems
context and so no, you don'thave to be married or have
children to come see me.
That's just.
It's just a systems way ofthinking.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
But how much of our childhood, of our family, of our
friends who we choose to bringinto our lives because we think
they're enriching our lives?
How much do all these otherplayers have in my starring role
show?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
100%.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
So much.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
So much, yes, so much .
Speaker 1 (09:12):
You know this for a fact.
You know this from your ownlife.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I know this from my own life, I know it from my
client experiences, I know itfrom it is we are marinating in
the people that we are around.
So if you put a piece ofchicken in a lime marinade, it's
going to absorb the lime.
(09:37):
These are our family andfriends.
Yeah, we are the chicken.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
So the decision Tough news for me I'm a vegan.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
What do you marinate?
Mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
I guess, so Sweet potato yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Something we are absorbing the essence of the
people around us, the cities welive in, the churches we go to.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
And we don't know this is happening right,
impacted and, and dare I say,influenced.
You know, in the, in the lifeand times that we live in, that
so many people actually arecontrolling the way we think and
the decisions we make.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Does that take people by surprise?
It takes a lot of people bysurprise.
I'm in a little bit of a siloBecause my friends are very
emotionally aware I think thatI've self-selected, you know, as
I age, that type of profile ofperson, because that's really
important to me and I want thepeople in my life to be loving
(10:48):
and kind and open and I in turnwant to be like that for them.
So the people in my life do.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
But do you think you got there because you've done
the work?
Do you think you were selectingthe same type of people 20
years ago?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Oh no, not even close .
Speaker 1 (11:06):
See yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I see what you're saying.
No, this was not always how Ioperated.
No, no, no, no, I didn'tunderstand that I was marinating
and as I have understood thatmore, I've been more deliberate
in my choices.
In friends, in churches, in thebooks I read, in the music I
listen to.
But this is often one of thevery first conversations I have
(11:28):
with clients.
I take them through thismetaphor about basically take
them through this metaphor aboutbasically marinating.
I use an apple and an onion asan example and I say this is
where your autonomy comes in.
You get to decide whether youwant to absorb those essences,
if you're okay with that, or ifyou want to let some rest, if
(11:52):
you want to let some go by thewayside.
Because this wasn't always you.
This is what culture imposed onyou, or the decade imposed on
you, or your parents, orreligion imposed on you, or your
caregivers or friends, whateverit is.
This is not the way you are ornor have always been.
This was an idea that youabsorbed as truth because you
(12:14):
were too young to do anythingotherwise.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
So for folks who decide to go on this journey
with you and listen to the show,is change as simple as removing
the onion or the apple from themarinade and poof, you don't
have the issue again.
Or in so many ways.
How long does it take to takethe stink off In so many ways?
Speaker 2 (12:34):
how long does it take to take the stink off?
That's a great question.
The first point is awareness.
Once you're aware that you'vebeen marinating, a lot changes.
There isn't a prescription oftime that I can say, oh, it'll
(12:58):
take six months.
But once that awareness happens, you really change the way you
see the world and it changes theway you interact with people
and you start to think wait, doI want this?
Or it's just the way it'salways been, so to speak, and so
slowly, decision by decision,you get to start deciding maybe
I do want this, great, maybe Idon't want it at all.
And so the client becomes theyreally have a huge sense of
(13:23):
agency in their own life.
So, instead of autopilot,you're choosing what you want.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
And so is therapy a straight line, or is it like the
squiggle of your own life, thework.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
It is most definitely a squiggle, but I think that
that should be comforting.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, to the patient right, Because they're going to
try.
They're exploring a newboundary.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Most definitely.
You're exploring, you'regetting to know yourself in a
new way.
You decide you don't want to gothat way.
That's right.
And also the people in yourlife are getting used to this
new person.
So we are not people in vacuums.
You know we exist, like I saidin a context.
So as you change, I get to seethat and I get to hold space for
(14:08):
that and then I get to decidedo I want to change with you or
not?
Yeah, you just got a new dog.
I did Pop-Tart, pop-tart.
I love Poppy.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I call her a biohazard terrorist.
She is not potty trained yet,but we're getting there and it's
interesting.
Looking at Pop-Tart, because Ilove her, I know that I got her
from a rescue.
I know that her previous ownersurrendered her, so I know that
she wasn't properly trained, shewasn't cared for.
(14:42):
We're going to get her teethcleaned and so really, in
looking at Pop Tart, katya, I'veseen her as people.
I wouldn't go so far as sayingmen are dogs or women are dogs,
but maybe we are dogs and so itgives me a lot of grace for
people.
Right, we're all carrying ourown things.
We've all maybe been mishandledor not cared for or don't have
the right training or the skillsyet, but we get there.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
It's new and it's tedious until it's not yes, and
you're my best friend, and thisis a change that you've decided
to make.
Yes, and now you've decided tomake it, and now I've decided to
make it too Right.
We got Pop-Tarts, treats andtoys, but that's just an example
of somebody in my life ischanging and now I'm deciding to
(15:29):
change with them.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
But that's not easy.
Sometimes that takes a lot ofother people off their autopilot
, yes, and we get pushback withthose family and friends.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yes, and something I like to encourage or just drop
or leave and tell my clients isyou've been working on this
change with a professional,whoever you're interacting with,
who's now experiencing thischange.
They're experiencing it for thefirst time.
So just give them a minute.
Be a pop star.
Yeah, have some grace.
(16:00):
Yeah, let them come into thisnew space on their own time.
That's going to keep theconnection, build the
relationship, instead of givingan ultimatum like I'm going to
change and if you don't like it,you can't be in my life.
That's not a productiveapproach.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, okay, you know we're exploring how you got to
where you are today and in thefirst episode we kind of very
quickly cliff-snowed through youknow your career, from working
in restaurants and bars toeventually becoming a licensed
therapist.
You mentioned you have twodaughters and you are happily
(16:38):
married.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And you are a therapist, just telling us to
take it easy and give everybodygrace.
Is your life just so easy now?
Is everybody in your home justwell adjusted?
And mother, may I, and how canI help you today?
Do you no longer have problemsnow that you're a therapist?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I'm thinking of something completely
inappropriate.
A few years ago, I was in thebathroom and my kids were
fighting.
I was in the bathroom, if youknow what I mean, and I
absolutely lost it, Like abanshee.
I was screaming from the top ofmy lungs stop fighting.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
You make it sound so lovely with a giggle.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
It was not my proudest moment as a mother, as
a woman, as anybody.
I thought, wow, what has mylife come to?
I'm screaming from the pot.
So, no, no, no, things are notsmooth sailing.
I think that the skills that Ihave decided to value and
(17:53):
cultivate and to lead my lifeare that I want to set my kids
up for success emotionally andtheir well-being and keeping
them safe and loving them well,and so I lead with that and no
matter how difficult things get.
That is those are my values,period.
(18:15):
I'm going to love my husbandand my children and my home.
Everything else comes secondand that's hard, that's really
hard.
You know I want to live in theworld with grace and kindness
and love, also not just with me.
You know I want to be anintegrated human being and that
(18:36):
challenges me.
I want to be the same person inmy home that I am at CVS, that
I am with you, that I am at therestaurant, that I am with my
clients.
So I really challenge myself tobe my best, to lead with my
best values and intentions andwalk through the world that way.
I don't enjoycompartmentalizing like I'm a
(18:59):
good person here and I'm abanshee over here.
That's not how I operate, sothe more I can integrate and the
more I can be values-led.
Times will be challenging,things will be hard, but that
doesn't matter, because I'mgoing to lead with my values,
whether it's challenging or not.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
I mean, if that's not a speech for the rest of us in
2025, I don't know what is.
Because my question to you isand I guess I don't know how you
would actually gauge this butwho do you think you would be if
you didn't have the skills, theexperiences, you know, the
foresight and the education toget through the world we're
(19:42):
living in today?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I think I'd be highly medicated and I think I'd be
scrolling on social media tillmy finger got numb To distract
yourself.
Yeah, because the world isheavy.
The world is so heavy and sochaotic and I don't understand a
lot of it, and sometimes it'stoo big for me to even try to
(20:06):
comprehend.
The heartache is unimaginable.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Do your clients talk about just the experiences that
they're having with the world,or is your work in your
therapist's office so niche andfocused on family and friend
experiences?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
It's most definitely what's happening in the world.
We're healing childhood traumas, but also our other traumas,
but what is happeninggeopolitically makes my clients
and everybody turns our triggerson.
We all of a sudden don't feelsafe, or we're coming from a
(20:45):
scarcity mindset, or we'refeeling more tribal, and I have
a lot of grace for that, becausethese are biological functions.
We are meant to want to staysafe and together, and so, as I
see these things unfolding ontelevision or in the news, I
know that a lot of this isdriven by biology, just like
(21:08):
pack mentality, pack mentality,fight or flight.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And also, too, social media.
Right, you said, people want tosurvive, people want to feel
safe, people want to get in agroup, and so we're talking
about even if you're on socialmedia the trends, the
influencers, the differentthings.
So much of society wants us topick a team and then stay there.
But I go back to something youwere just talking about a few
(21:33):
minutes ago, saying you want tobe the same person in this
situation, that situation, anddon't forget the other situation
.
You can't be equal footing inall of these different scenarios
if you're all in on one bucket,unless the bucket, I guess, is
kindness.
So what's the message you wantlisteners to take away, your
(21:57):
clients to take away?
What do we need to see to kindof drown out the noise, get off
of autopilot, so to speak, andreally navigate the world
authentically ourselves?
Speaker 2 (22:10):
If we can take a minute and realize all the
points of armor that we put onbefore we leave the house.
That is a Brene Brown-ism, I'llcall it.
She talks about armor.
So what?
We're wearing the bumpersticker on our car, the flag we
have in our driveway, what teamwe root for, the jewelry we wear
(22:35):
, whatever it is.
We're all wearing these piecesof identity.
We are showing who we are as wewalk into a room or as we drive
down the road, and sometimes Ithink we're trying to signal to
our fellow tribe members like,look, I belong here.
Or sometimes, conversely, look,I don't belong here, wherever
(22:58):
it is that you're landing.
But you're trying to send amessage, but know that the other
person that's wearing the armoris also wearing armor.
They are also trying to belong,they're also trying to stay
safe, they are also just tryingto make it.
And so if we can look at peopleand just realize, oh, I see
(23:22):
that they're acting prickly, butactually they're just hungry or
actually they just got let gofrom their job or actually and
that's not excusing all badbehavior by any means, but it
is- it allows us not topersonalize it.
Yes, and also to connect at adeeper level.
What we're wearing, where we'reeating, where our kids go to
(23:45):
school, who you voted for, allthese types of things are levels
one, two, three, four ofsurface.
I need you to get to leveleight.
What's level eight?
What we said, why we createdthis show, our hopes, our fears,
our dreams, what we really longfor and yearn for all of that
(24:08):
on level eight is pretty muchthe same.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
And so, what are people going to see you for?
What is the help?
Do they want to fit in atschool?
Do they want to be stylish andtrendy?
What seems to be, in doing thework here in the hill country,
the eight that people areseeking?
Speaker 2 (24:28):
They want real connection.
That sounds so cliche, but it'sreally not.
They want deep friendships.
They want marriages that aresafe and loving.
They want to date people thatare kind and lovely.
They want a community groupthat they can go to when
(24:49):
something floods at their house.
They want connection.
They want to be seen and theywant to be comfortable in their
own skin.
You are the person I feelprobably most comfortable with
in the world.
Right, I can wear pajamas.
It doesn't matter what I'mwearing.
I'm not going to impress you.
I'm also going to not unimpressyou.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
You're just going to be loved.
That's right.
You're safe and fine, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I'm not going to impress you.
I'm also going to not unimpressyou.
You're just going to be loved,you're safe and fine, that's
right.
I'm trying to change you.
You're going to hold my hand,we're going to laugh, we're
going to be silly, and that's areal gift I have in you, and not
everybody has that.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Thank you, I love you , I love you too.
Can people get to that pointthrough this radio show?
Is that what you're hoping for?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I am just desperate for it for people.
The people I feel mostcomfortable around are the ones
who are the most comfortable intheir own skin, and I try to be
that, not to say that I'm likethat all the time, but part of
being an integrated person, likeI was saying earlier, is being
comfortable, not having thatarmor, really saying take off
(25:57):
your shoes, be comfy, beyourself.
I am not leading with anartifice and I hope you won't
either.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
You're also not trying to get people to go into
your office.
This is truly a conversationyou're having with your
community, with your neighbors,in their safe space.
Maybe it's on their drive towork, maybe it's at home, maybe
it's, you know, in the privacyof their living room or their
office during a lunch break.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Maybe they're mowing the lawn.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Well, I hope they can crank up the volume if they're
doing that.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
A lot of people listen to music while they're
mowing the lawn.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
I'm a downtown girl but I know that you're going to
offer up and invite engagementwith this show.
So, as folks are kind offiguring out if they're going to
give the next episode a secondchance, what are some of the
topics?
What are some of the questions?
What are some of the questions?
What's some of the feedback youhope you hear from listeners?
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Ultimately, I would love the feedback to be you
encouraged me to invite myneighbor over for spaghetti and
we sat in our pajamas and we hadtea and spaghetti, or we had a
glass of wine and spaghetti andwe laughed and we watched the
Nate Bargatze show together.
Like that would be a dream Ifeverybody could have that space
(27:19):
where they could just relax intowho they are.
Yeah, that connection pointmakes all the difference in how
you handle your day the next day.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, big and bold doesn't require you jumping out
of a plane.
No, Sometimes it's taking astep forward and asking a
question.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yes, or can I go to your house, or come over to my
house, or let's play Uno.
I mean these such, such, such,such simple connection points.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Even parents asking their kids are you doing okay.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yes, tell me.
The other day I was lying downon the trampoline with my
youngest.
I said what's hard for youlately?
And she told me and I said doyou want help with that?
And she said yeah.
So I helped her out and now shehas one less hard thing.
Yeah, these are just simplequestions.
I didn't have to spend anymoney on her.
That's what you get when yourmom's a therapist.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, the feedback you're hoping is that people
take leaps in, whatever thatlooks like in their life.
The questions, the you know,the asks that you hope listeners
have for you Do they have to beeloquent and thought provoking?
Do they have to have the rightlanguage to explain what they're
feeling?
(28:36):
What are you looking for?
What can we send you?
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Oh, thank you.
That's a great question.
I'm looking for real questions.
I'm going to call them likehotshot questions, anything.
I'm having this disagreementwith my daughter how can I
connect with her better?
Or my husband and I keeparguing about how we load the
dishwasher.
How do we get through that, youguys?
Speaker 1 (28:58):
have had that argument.
We had it for 10 years.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I'm an expert.
I was not the expert.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
I would never ask who won.
We both know it was not you.
Yeah, ask who won.
We both know it was not you.
Yeah, but people can posescenarios without being too
detailed or simply say I'mfeeling uncomfortable at work,
how do I navigate this?
Yeah, and you genuinely canhelp them I can genuinely help
(29:27):
them and you're bringing inexperts, I'm bringing in experts
.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I'm bringing in a trauma therapist perspective.
You're bringing in experts.
I'm bringing in experts.
I'm bringing in a traumatherapist perspective.
I'm bringing in all my toolsthat I use in the therapy room.
While it's not therapy per se,because it's a radio show, it is
supportive and it is a way tohelp people get over those
hurdles that are maybe holdingthem back, and my ultimate hope
(29:51):
is that they rest and accept whothey are and embrace who they
are, and that they can findsomebody else who will do the
same.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Well, listen, I appreciate you sharing more of
your story, going through thethings and the experiences and
motherhood that has changed andcolored your life.
Thank you, madsie, this is aspace for our stories, our
struggles and our hopes, andyou're part of that too.
So you, Madsie.
This is a space for our stories, our struggles and our hopes,
and you're part of that too.
So thanks for sharing with us.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Thank you, Melissa.
Thank you for being here.
If this conversation clarifiedsomething for you or helped you
feel a little more seen, pleaseshare it with someone you care
about.
You can follow along for moregrounded, soulful conversations
and know that this space is hereto support you.
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