September 1, 2025 • 37 mins
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Katie Taylor opens our eyes to the transformative role of child life specialists - healthcare professionals who use play, preparation, and child-friendly language to turn potentially traumatic medical experiences into manageable, even empowering ones for children and families.
With over 15 years of experience as a certified child life specialist and as CEO of Child Life On Call, Katie shares how these professionals serve as essential bridges between medical teams and families. From describing IVs as "tiny Barbie straws" to creating playful preparation for anesthesia, these specialists translate complex medical experiences into language children can understand.
Whether you're a parent preparing a child for a medical procedure or someone interested in how healthcare can become more nuanced, this conversation will forever change how you think about supporting children through medical experiences.
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Show Guest
Katie Taylor, CCLS, CEO & Founder, Child Life On Call
Katie Taylor is the co-founder and CEO of Child Life On Call, a digital platform revolutionizing pediatric healthcare by putting parents at the center of the medical journey. With over 15 years of experience as a certified child life specialist, Katie has made significant contributions to the field of child life and the families she’s served with over a decade of working at the bedside. She is an accomplished author, engaging child life and entrepreneurship speaker, and the Child Life On Call Podcast host. Katie's work emphasizes the vital role of child life services in supporting caregivers and enhancing children's medical journeys through empowering parents.
Connect with Katie here:
- SupportSpot App iOS & Android App
- Child Life On Call Podcast
- Child Life Circle - Community for Child Life Specialists
- Instagram.com/childlifeoncall
- Facebook.com/childlifeoncall
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- Or find local resources through findahelpline.com
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Show hosted by:
Catia Hernandez Holm, LMFT-A
Supervised by Susan Gonzales, LMFT-S, LPC-S
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Couch Time with Cat, your safe place for
real conversation and a gentlecheck-in.
Kwvh presents Couch Time withCat.
Hi, I'm Cat, trauma therapist,coach, tedx speaker,
best-selling author and yourhost here on Couch Time with Cat
.
I've spent over a decadewalking alongside people through
the real, raw and sacred workof becoming whole again through
(00:21):
the real, raw and sacred work ofbecoming whole again.
Couch Time with Cat.
Mental Wellness with a FriendlyVoice is where we have
conversations that are equalparts science and soul.
This is where we get honestabout anxiety, grief, burnout,
relationships and the braveeveryday work of healing.
You don't have to have it allfigured out to belong here.
Whether you're tuning in rightfrom here in the hill country or
(00:45):
listening across the world, Iwant you to feel seen, supported
and reminded that you're notalone.
So find your cozy spot, take adeep breath and let's talk about
what it means to be humantogether.
Today's conversation is about aprofession that quietly
transforms the medicalexperience for children and
families, yet far too manypeople don't even know it exists
(01:09):
.
Katie Taylor, CCLS, is theco-founder and CEO of Child Life
on Call, a digital platformrevolutionizing pediatric health
care by putting parents at thecenter of the medical journey.
With over 15 years ofexperience as a certified child
life specialist, Katie has spentmore than a decade at the
(01:30):
bedside, supporting children andtheir families in some of their
most vulnerable moments.
She's also an accomplishedauthor, podcast host, keynote
speaker and a passionateadvocate for bringing child life
services to every family whoneeds them.
Cat path has been as rich as ithas been purpose-driven.
(01:52):
After graduating from PennState, she worked with the
National Center for Missing andExploited Children, traveling
across the country to train lawenforcement, educators and
community leaders on childsafety.
Drawn to the heart of supportingchildren through medical
challenges, she trained atChildren's National Medical
(02:12):
Center and Inova Children'sHospital, going on to work at
institutions like DellChildren's in St David's in
Austin, texas.
Her clinical work spanspediatric ICUs, emergency rooms,
oncology units and evenlaunching child life services in
an 80-bed NICU.
She's witnessed firsthand howthe right preparation, language
(02:37):
and emotional support can changethe trajectory of a child's
medical experience and thefamily's healing journey as a
whole.
Today, Katie is here to answera simple but powerful question
what is a child life specialistand why are they so important,
whether you're a parent, acaregiver or simply someone who
(02:59):
wants to understand how to bringmore humanity into healthcare.
This conversation will openyour eyes to the tools, language
and presence that can make allthe difference.
Hi Katie, hi friend.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That was amazing.
Thank you so much.
I love you so much.
I'm so glad you're here.
Cat and I have been friends fora hot minute.
Yeah, I think going on a decade, decade.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Cat and I have been friends for a hot minute.
Yeah, I think going on a decade.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I know.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And I'm so proud of her.
I'm just I'm so impressed byher.
Let me not talk about you, likeyou're not here.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I'm so impressed by you.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Gosh, you're such a good person.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
The feeling is mutual .
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You're such a good person.
I'm so glad you're here to helpus understand a role that's
quietly changing lives andhospitals around the world, but
none of us really know about ityeah.
So let's start at the beginning.
Let's do that.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And I want to acknowledge that the people
listening here may not be in thepediatric healthcare space, but
everybody here was once a childand if you didn't get to grow
up and you had any kind ofmedical care or healthcare
experience and you look back onit with a little bit of fear or
unsure of like what really washappening, hopefully this
(04:11):
resonates with you.
Child life started actually as agroup of play lady volunteers
in the hospital and so back inthe day they would have
volunteers that would come anddrop off toys to kids, and now
it's completely revolutionizedinto being a major profession in
children's hospitals across thecountry, across the world, and
(04:31):
we really look at what we callis psychosocial care, so the
elements of mental health andpsychosocial support for
families and trauma-informedcare and how we can put those
together to really transform themedical experience for families
.
And the question I get all thetime is can we have an adult
life specialist?
Because just because you turn18 doesn't mean healthcare gets
(04:56):
any easier and in fact it canget harder too.
So it's a privilege to be achild life specialist and share
more about a profession becauseit's so incredibly important.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So you gave us a little insight.
If you were to say, a childlife specialist does what
exactly?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, it would depend on who I was talking to.
I explain it a lot like it'skind of like a teacher in the
hospital.
So we don't do any of theclinical interventions, we're
not doing any of the pokes orx-rays or anything like that.
But we'll help you understandwhy it's happening and we're
going to help you through it too.
And we work with kids as littleas 22 weekers who are born into
(05:36):
the world, and we supportchildren of adult patients, so
we span really the lifespan offamilies going through pediatric
care.
So we help you understand thehospital, we help you cope with
what's happening with yourmedical experience.
A big thing for us is theelement of play and expression
and therapeutic activities thatreally normalize the healthcare
(05:57):
experience for kids and families.
That's our big big thing isplay and how we can use it and
how it can really transform fromsomething being incredibly
scary to being something that itcan actually feel quite
empowering.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Oh my God, that sounds so, so, incredibly
important.
It sounds like you helpfamilies manage these big
experiences, these diagnoses,these big moments in their life
and you kind of guide themthrough those difficult waters.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, I had the privilege of working for many
years in the operating roomspace, and so what that looks
like is I will have a familythat will come in.
Their child needs to havesurgery that day, and often they
don't know how to tell thechild what's going to happen.
Number one it's probablycomplex, right, like a hernia
repair is not something that youcan easily explain to a child
(06:51):
Circumcision tonsils andadenoids.
It's like how do I tell themwithout scaring them with what's
going to happen next?
They don't know what to expect.
They have to meet a millionpeople that day and a child life
specialist.
Really, we can meet them in thewaiting room, get to know them
and their child, assess thepersonality of the child and the
family and really start to sayhow can we make this experience
(07:12):
better for them.
Number one we want to usehonest, simple language so that
the child understands whathappens in a very age or
developmentally appropriate way.
We want to make sure the familyfeels included and
collaborative and like they knowhow to advocate for their child
because they have unique needs.
So we'll walk them literallyfrom the waiting room into the
pre-op room, help the child getchanged into their gown, right?
(07:34):
So sometimes that can be a bigtrigger for kids is having to
change their clothes.
So we prepare them for whatthat experience is going to be
like, and then we talk about theanesthesia process them for
what that experience is going tobe like, and then we talk about
the anesthesia process.
Truly, I'll bring an anesthesiamask in, get on the level with
the child and we'll just playwith it at first.
So to be able to fall asleepwith anesthesia, you have to
breathe in a mask, and we reallyneed the child to be compliant
(07:57):
in this.
We need them to breathe, and sowhat we do is we play with the
mask.
First I could put it on like alittle teddy bear or a stuffed
animal, let the child do it,have the parent put it on and
really just make it more of likea fun or playful activity where
there's not really high stakes.
I could show them pictures ofthe operating room so that
before they get back to theoperating room they know what
(08:19):
it's going to look like, whothey're going to see, who
they're going to meet, and thenI truly get to accompany the
child back into the operatingroom and be with them until they
fall asleep.
Sometimes we use tactics likeor an alternative focus, so
letting the child watch a movieas they fall asleep.
Sometimes we pretend we'reblowing up a big balloon and
then the child will fall asleepand they were supported during
(08:41):
that entire experience and it'sso often that I'll come and
report back to the parent abouthow it went and they thought,
wow, we had no idea this day wasgoing to go that way, and
that's a really encouraging andvery honoring experience to help
a family through something thatthey thought was going to be
really scary and make it muchless scary and more manageable
for the entire family.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
You kind of took my breath away.
That sounds.
The thing that I'm thinkingabout is generationally we used
to really force kids take it orelse do it, or else just be
quiet.
The doctor is talking like alot of forcing, a lot of
difficult looks, tones.
(09:25):
I'm imagining, really I'mimagining like a square, lots of
rough edges and just a lot offorce, brute force, to get the
kid to do something, and itsounds like this is coming at it
from the completely oppositeway, which is, let's inform the
child, let's be that really youguys are the bridge.
(09:48):
Child life specialists are thebridge between the child and the
family and the medical system,and so you don't exactly fit in
the medical system but you helpthe family and the child
understand the medical system.
Would you say that's accurate?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
That's absolutely it, and we're able to really
transfer skills.
You know, kind of across theoperating room was one example.
Another one would be hostingbingo in the playroom, so
something really simple.
But what it does is it can getkids out of bed.
So if they did have a surgery,they need to be walking in order
to be discharged.
Let's get you to the playroom,let's play around a bingo, then
(10:26):
you can get back to your bed.
But that was actually somethingthey had to accomplish that day
in order to heal faster orrecover faster, but it felt like
play, so they were able to doit.
For siblings who aren't able tobe with their brother or sister
during long hospital stays,we'll interact with them and
make sure they're educated aboutwhat to expect, about what
their sibling is going through,invite them to come to bingo in
(10:47):
the playroom.
Then it really turns into afamily bonding moment.
We know that when families arein the hospital, when they're
going through medicalexperiences, so much of their
power is stripped away, and theplayroom in a hospital is really
a place where they get theirpower back.
They can choose what they wantto do.
There are no interventions,even taking medicine, allowed in
(11:09):
a playroom.
We have very strict rules thatthis is the child's space.
So if they have to take amedicine, we actually make them
go back to their room to do it,because we want this to just be
the safe space that kids get togo to.
On the other side of the coin,we can work in emergency room
situations where things come inreally fast and are really high
stakes and let's say thatthere's a child who comes in and
(11:30):
is needing in the trauma roomand needs CPR and progress.
I'll stand at the head of thebed with the parent and let them
know exactly what's happening,what the role of each team
member is, tell the parent whatrole they can play, answer their
questions, get them a seat sothey can sit down.
We work really closely withsocial work in a lot of those
high risk situations.
(11:51):
So it's truly an honor and aprivilege to understand
healthcare and be able to lookat it from a psychosocial,
trauma-informed lens and thenlook at the family and see how
can we make this the bestexperience possible.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Are child life specialists only in hospitals.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Great, great question .
We have started to branch outinto the community over the past
couple of decades.
You'll see child lifespecialists working in hospice,
working in dental offices.
You'll see them working injails and prisons, child
advocacy centers, becausethere's so many opportunities
where kids have to go throughtough things and it's nice to
have that advocate whounderstands psychosocial and
(12:31):
trauma-informed care to help thechild and family through it.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It sounds like child life specialists are essential
in multiple ways in pediatriccare.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
What do you wish child life specialists?
What space do you wish a childlife specialist could take up in
pediatric care that they aren'tnecessarily taking up right now
?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I think my big wish is that there were more of us.
Right now there's only about6,000.
And if we think about the factthat 21 million kids go into ERs
every single year, there's justno match that every family gets
access to that.
And that's where my big youknow, purpose of Child Life On
(13:13):
Call is is I want to equip andempower parents to understand
some of these things that I'mtalking about now so, if they
don't have access to a childlife specialist, they can
actually learn some of thethings that I would do and then
do it with their own child.
So that's my whole big soapbox,as you know teaching and
reaching what child life can do.
Equip parents with thatinformation so that, if they
(13:36):
don't get access to it, theyknow how to really tackle any
complex situation with theirchild.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
In terms of increasing the amount of child
life specialists out there.
What does training look like?
How does one become a childlife specialist?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Great question.
So you have to have anundergrad degree in child life
or a related field.
So for a lot of us that lookslike child psychology or
psychology or sociology.
Some of us come from nursing ordifferent backgrounds.
We then go through a clinicalsupervision period where you
have to get accepted into aninternship program.
(14:14):
We work for about 600 hours,unpaid but supervised by a child
life specialist workingclinically or in the community,
and then after that period youcan sign off from your
internship, take a certificationexam and then we have
continuing education that we doevery five years to recertify.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Man, that's 600 hours .
That's a real barrier to whocan enter that field.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
That is a big problem for us, absolutely Not only
just awareness that theprofession exists and that
people will often find out alittle bit later and say, oh, I
wish I could have done that, butalso there's a complete barrier
to entry.
To be able to work for free for600 hours is not possible.
The landscape is changing a bitIn our online networking and
(15:01):
forums.
I'm seeing a few hospitalsoffer paid internships, which
would change the game for us.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Therapists are in a similar boat.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
We have a year internship while we're in
graduate school where we have towork for free.
Yeah, I feel like it's also 600hours.
Yeah, I don't really rememberthat number exactly.
It's a blur.
Yeah 600 hours?
I don't, I don't reallyremember that number exactly,
it's a blur, but I rememberthinking who can do this?
I was.
I was really only able to do itbecause my husband is a
(15:29):
provider and I.
I couldn't have done itotherwise.
So I feel like people whootherwise have the heart and the
will for it are automaticallyweeded out because we can't
afford to feed our families andto raise our families and work
600 hours for free.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
There's absolutely a privilege that comes with being
able to even enter theprofession, let alone complete
that internship for 600 hours.
I myself was able.
I was living with my boyfriendat the time so he could cover
the rent, and then I was workingat a retail store.
So I would leave the hospital,go work a night shift.
You're in an evening shift in aretail store, or Saturdays or
(16:09):
Sundays.
It was exhausting, it was hardto do, wow.
But when you're driven you knowwhat you want.
You go for it.
Looking back, wow, I'mimpressed that I did that yeah
you are impressive, I amimpressive.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
What happens when families don't have access to
child life services?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
There's a big risk.
I think, when families don'tget access to child life
services, that their familyexperience in the hospital won't
be as, I think, impactful as itcould have been.
Parents don't learn how toadvocate for their child.
They're not able to see andmodel what the child life
specialist can teach them.
(16:48):
Hospital patient satisfactionscores can go down and then
ultimately that leads to worseoutcomes.
Children could be noncompliantbecause they don't understand
what's happening.
They go into the situation withfear rather than feeling
empowered and like they have ajob to do and they know exactly
what's happening.
So things take longer.
Sometimes they'll need moremedicine.
(17:08):
An example of this is you know,I can be talking with a family
and just because I have theability to speak with them, I'll
learn that the child hates agrape flavor.
What do you know?
What comes up from pharmacy buta grape flavored medication
that the child won't take.
But the nurse hasn't gottenthat information yet, so now it
takes longer because we have tosend it back to the pharmacist.
So the communication loop isreally important and when child
(17:32):
life isn't there to kind of,like you said, be the bridge
between the family and thehealth care team, a lot of
things can get missed, takelonger and ultimately decrease
the outcomes for kids.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
As you were speaking and you said the bridge, I
remember I had a doula for eachof my births and I had two
hospital births and she wasvital.
She was a vital part.
She was my bridge.
She got to know me before andwe were very comfortable with
her.
We knew she was competent andkind and we knew she had.
(18:05):
She knew how to navigate ahospital and nurses, yeah, and
doctors and medication and allthese things that I did not have
the bandwidth for as I waslaboring yeah you know I don't.
if a doctor came and said, hey,why don't you try this
medication, it's going to helpyou.
I have zero margin to to make adecision, to understand, we're
(18:30):
out of our wheelhouse and so ourdoula's name is D'Andrea and
she, she did.
She made all those decisionsand she knew how to make those
decisions on my behalf.
She'd check in with me, buthaving her was a real luxury and
it sounds like that's a reallysimilar experience.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
That's such a good analogy to bring.
I see a lot of.
I have a good friend.
She's a child life specialistwho turned doula.
The transition was really easybecause she could already
navigate the health care systemand she just started advocating
for another group.
It wasn't children, but it waswomen and that person is so
essential for a positive birthexperience.
(19:12):
I feel that way for kids andfamilies facing pediatric care,
Child life is essential for thatreally good, deep, meaningful,
positive experience.
When you have a, you know I'llhave families come in and I can
tell that the parents have beenthrough something traumatic
medically and that they'rerubbing it off on their child,
not intentionally, because theywant to protect them.
(19:34):
So they'll say something likeoh, I have the worst veins, it
takes eight sticks in order toget blood and they kind of put
that on their child withoutmeaning to.
Had that parent had a childlife specialist or someone to
walk them through and make it anempowering experience, they
wouldn't put that on their child.
And then the child then, youknow, listens and takes that in
(19:55):
and internalizes it and it canreally change the experience.
And we want kids to start offhaving great health care
experiences so they learn how toadvocate for themselves as they
navigate health care for therest of their lives and they're
different languages.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Imagine just dropping into brazil and trying to
navigate, trying to navigatesomething in a completely
different language than otherthan your native language, and
you're trying to make decisionson the fly and you're doing it
with this diagnosis or thisexperience on the line, and
that's a lot of pressure for thelay person oh, absolutely, and
(20:31):
it's something as simple as anurse coming in very quickly
saying, okay, I need to flushyour iv.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Let's break that down for what that means for a child
.
Flush is something I do at thetoilet.
Let's break that down for whatthat means for a child.
Flush is something I do at thetoilet and IV is like IV.
Are we talking about a planthere?
So instead we would saysomething like we need to give
water to the tiny straw that'sin your vein.
So just kind of like you said,translating that language so
it's more understandable thechild's less scared.
(20:56):
You know we're going to go intoa CAT scan.
Well, are there going to becats there?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
scared.
You know we're going to go intoa cat scan.
Well, are there going to becats there?
You know, instead it's reallyjust a circle camera.
I have never thought about anyof this, yeah, yes, wow, how
empowering.
That's incredible, thank you.
Children often imagine theworst when they don't understand
what's happening, just like youwere saying, going into a CAT
scan.
So what's another way?
You use language or play tohelp a child understand what's
(21:24):
about to happen?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
I use it in a lot of different ways and I think
parents, grandparents can reallytake this Play is a tool to
understand the child's world.
So really getting down on thefloor to play, listening to how
they're doing it, looking formisconceptions so sometimes I'll
ask the floor to play,listening to how they're doing
it, looking for misconceptions.
So sometimes I'll ask a childto play out what they think is
going to happen, and what thatdoes is.
(21:47):
It allows me to see what doesthe child understand?
What do they know?
For example, I was playing oncewith a little girl.
She was six years old, she wasdiagnosed with cancer and we
were playing with some medicalplay dolls.
And of course when I play it'schild-led, otherwise it's not
play.
So when we're playing together,she takes her marker, she gets
(22:09):
her medical play doll, she rubsred all over this doll and she
had just been diagnosed withleukemia.
So in my head I am thinking,wow, she totally understands
that this is a blood disorderand a blood cancer.
So at the end I say, tell meabout what you've drawn on this
doll.
And she was like those are thefireballs that are all over her
body.
And so there was a moment whereI thought, oh crap.
(22:31):
She has this misconception thatthere's fireballs all over her
body.
And so I said is that what youthink is happening in your body?
She goes no, I have cancer body.
And so I said, is that what youthink is happening in your body
?
She goes, no, I have cancer.
So I love that play can beincredibly deep and it can also
be play and not that deep too.
But what that was?
(22:56):
I got to see her play andimagine and dream and she had
just watched a show aboutfireballs and it was about that.
But it opened up theconversation for me to
understand.
What does she know?
She knows there's a differencebetween fireballs and it was
about that.
But it opened up theconversation for me to
understand.
What does she know?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
she knows there's a difference between fireballs and
leukemia also that play andthat clarification helps you not
impose your own fears, like youwere saying earlier with the
parents your own fears, your ownjudgments or your own
perceptions and meaning.
Yeah, she may think, okay, okay, I have leukemia, well, we're
going to get this taken care of.
She may not have that kind ofoverwhelming sense of dread or
(23:27):
fear like a parent does.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Absolutely, it's all we're thinking about.
It's the elephant in the room,but for her, she just watched a
show and they happened to havefireballs on there, so that's
what she drew.
When we're talking about achild getting an IV which is
really common when you have amedical experience or you're in
the hospital I love to talkabout it like a tiny Barbie
drinking straw, especially forthose kids who are in that like
(23:49):
preschool to early school age,because they're playing with
dolls, so it's something theyknow and understand, and we were
like how tiny would a straw beif a Barbie was drinking it?
So we take the conversationfrom like you're going to have
to get a needle stick to likelet's throw in some play, let's
imagine a little bit andBarbie's going to need a drink
with this tiny straw.
Let's give it to your vein too.
(24:10):
That is sweet.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
How do you support parents and siblings during a
hospital stay?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Oh my gosh, I just want to run up to every parent,
give them a cup of coffee andsay do you need a minute?
Have you showered, have yougone to the bathroom?
Because a lot of times theanswer is no.
I've been holding it.
The doctor might come in.
So the first thing I do whenI'm like do you need a beat?
I introduce them to what I do,make sure they're on board.
(24:39):
Collaborative, let them knowwhat I'm going to tell their
child so that they're on board.
I would love for parents to be apart of the conversation and
the play whenever possible.
Sometimes they don't have thebandwidth, so tired, they'd
rather just kind of sit andscroll on their phone.
I love that too, because itgives them a tiny break.
So my first thing is like arethe caregiver's needs met?
My second thing is what can Ido to help support them?
(25:01):
What do they need done?
What clarifications do theyneed about their child's care?
And, number three, how can Iuniquely show up for this family
?
Not every family is goingthrough the same experience or
needs the same things, so a lotof that is my assessment process
.
How can I support this family?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Earlier you said there are only 6,000.
I keep thinking about thatnumber and I know you have a
huge heart for expanding thatnumber.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
And so what have you done so far to kind of fill that
gap between how many child lifespecialists there are and how
many there should be?
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, I had an interaction with a mom and it
was pivotal for me.
She had a three-week-old withmeningitis in the ICU here in
Austin Three weeks and when youhave bacterial meningitis, that
earns you at least a 21-day stayat the beginning of your life's
journey.
So this mom was a new mom andshe looked at me and it was dark
(25:59):
in the room and I just rememberlike the new mom and she looked
at me and it was dark in theroom and I just remember like
the IV beeping and she looked atme and she said, please just
connect me to another mom who'sgone through this before.
And I couldn't.
I didn't have another mom inthe hallway.
It was a tiny children'shospital at the time.
I didn't have another mom Icould connect her with.
And I thought to myself, if Icould put a podcast in her ear
of another mom with athree-week-old with bacterial
(26:21):
meningitis, she would havesomeone.
And that began the mission ofChild Life On Call, which is my
podcast.
So we have over 265 episodes ofparents sharing their stories
of what it's like.
So the next time a parent looksat me and says can you please
tell me another parent has gonethrough this before I'm able to
give them a resource and theseconversations.
(26:43):
I've learned so much about thepediatric and parent experience
and how essential it is forother parents to learn from
others who have gone through itbefore, and that it's really, I
think, my life's mission.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
You started a podcast inside your closet.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
As we do.
Yeah, that's right, that'sexactly right.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
And then you also created an app.
Yes, can you tell us about it?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, that's another gap closer.
So for me it was important thatas soon as families get
admitted to the hospital,they're told we're not just
caring medically, we're caringpsychosocially for your family
too is an app that we license tochildren's hospitals so that,
(27:26):
upon admissions, families arenotified, they have access to
Support Spot, which has not onlyChild Life on Call resources
and all of our podcast episodes,but the resources that the
hospitals have, which oftendon't even get into the hands of
the family because theclinicians just aren't available
like we want to be.
So parking information, rightwhen to stay, where to eat, how
often the virtual support groupsmeet, all of these things that
(27:48):
exist to support families butoften don't get put in the hands
of families.
So support spot is thatessential tool.
You're admitted, here you go,you get support.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
You're talking about that like it's something you did
over the weekend, but but Iknow better yeah, how long did
that take to create?
What was that process like?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
well, um, my dad and I co-founded this company
together in March of 2020because we have an amazing
timing.
I don't know if you rememberwhat was happening in the world
at that point Christmas yeah.
Christmas in March.
Christmas in March, yeah,christmas in March.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Wow, March of 2020.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
March of 2020 is March.
14th is when we have our LLCdate.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I was working in the hospital.
My husband was also in healthcare, so it was a really scary
time, but because my husbandwasn't able to go to work, he
could stay home with the kidsand I was really able to dive in
and figure out how do we takethis idea to our MVP our minimum
viable product and so we workedand we created this app
(28:51):
alongside a company, and we'reable to pilot in our first
hospital in January of 2022.
I'm so proud of you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
What else did you do during COVID?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
My husband made sourdough, so I ate a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
You wrote a book.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Oh, the super silly wash your hands dance book.
That was such a beautiful book.
Working in a NICU, I know thatwashing hands saves lives and
that it would honestly besometimes a barrier for why
siblings couldn't come in.
So the wash your hands dancebook was really a gift to
siblings of NICU babies to learnhow to wash their hands
(29:27):
thoroughly before they visitedtheir baby.
And it turned out to have adouble meaning, as it was COVID
and we all really needed to washour hands.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
We ordered that book and we had it at every sink for
our girls.
How sweet yeah during COVID.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, it was a love kind of book with my son and he
picked all the characters thatwere in it.
I worked with an amazingillustrator, hannah Cat
Llewellyn, and yeah, it was abeautiful little children's book
.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
If a parent listening right now doesn't have access
to child life services, what'sone thing they can do today to
help prepare and support theirchild in a medical situation?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
yeah, I love that chat.
Gpt is a tool now it's a toolwe've never had before.
So I would truly go tochildlifeoncallcom and we have a
backslash.
Find a child life specialistthere.
You have child life specialiststhat work virtually so you you
can connect with one yeah, andanother thing you can do is you
(30:26):
can truly just put your child'sage what they're going to have
done for their medical procedureinto chat GPT and say give this
to me in simple language in away that I can tell my child at
their developmental level, andit will spit out some pretty
good information.
Of course, you'll have to talkwith your child, always let them
lead the conversation, butit'll give you some clues about
(30:49):
how to take something complexand make it really simple to
understand.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
What other tools can parents find on your website?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You can download the Support Spot app.
Of course, we have Child LifeSpecialist written procedure
guides so that you know what toexpect, what the sensory
experiences are you're going togo through and what I think is
the really special sauce of howto advocate for your child in
that moment.
If you don't know how tonavigate it On the website, we
also have free downloads, acoping plan so that you and your
(31:18):
child, ahead of time, cancreate really just kind of a
conversation about what can theychoose when they're in the room
where there's not a lot ofchoices.
I love to say things like letyour child choose to sit on the
chair or the bed.
Let your child choose to bringthe iPad or a book.
Let your child choose to holdyour hand or hold a squish ball.
These are things that kids cando that can really change the
(31:41):
game during that medicalexperience.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Gives them some autonomy where they really don't
have much.
You got it.
What's your vision for howtechnology and human connection
can work together to transformpediatric care?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
My vision is that every single family who gets a
medical experience has access tochild life tools and resources,
and I would love to say thatevery family gets that
one-on-one child life specialistin the room, because nothing
can replace that.
But I know that technology canhelp accelerate the way that we
get information to families, soI think for me it's that every
(32:18):
family who faces it knows how toprepare, support and then
respond to their childtherapeutically during medical
experiences prepare support andthen respond to their child
therapeutically during medicalexperiences.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
So it sounds like the gold standard and if you can
get it is an in-person childlife specialist.
Yeah, and absent of that, wecan rely on technology in the
form of your app or poppingsomething into ChatGPT that says
hey, how do.
I support my child through this, but ultimately it's the human
connection that makes adifference.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
It's the human connection and collaborate with
your provider and your care team.
They have been through thisbefore.
You can ask them hey, what'sworked for other kids before?
What have you heard?
Works really well, and they cangive you a ton of insight too.
So it's not just child lifespecialists.
We do have a very special role,but there's a lot of support
around you and your care teamwants your child and your family
(33:08):
to do really well and heal, soalways using them as a resource.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Just because they're not offering it doesn't mean
that they don't want to offer it.
It just probably means thatthey're busy and maybe it's not
top of mind.
But if we pause and ask them aquestion and ask them to support
us in that way, it sounds likeyou're saying that they'll have
tools available to help usthrough.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, I mean I facilitate that all the time.
If we go into my child's doctorappointment I'll ask the tech
what's your name, what's yourfavorite color?
My child's favorite color isblue.
Like I'm connecting them withthe care team and I'm kind of
doing it in a way so ithumanizes my child as not just a
patient but a person.
But it also has my childconnect with the person who's
(33:50):
going to be taking care of themand that's a real simple
conversation.
I love to play.
I spy when we're in a room.
It's really normalizing theexperience, getting play
involved whenever possible andthen really building that human
connection involved wheneverpossible and then really
building that human connection.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
My daughters, we take them to see their doctor and
we've been with her for a verylong time and my youngest gave
her a sticker and she put Angela, dr Angela put it on her little
tool basket.
She's had it on her little toolbasket for six or seven years.
She's changed locations.
(34:25):
She keeps tool basket for sixor seven years she's changed
locations.
She keeps the tool basket,keeps the sticker.
So when we go see Dr Angela thegirls are like, hey, do you
have the sticker?
How's the sticker?
Yeah, and there is so muchconnection and pride there
because oh, my doctor caresabout me.
She kept the sticker I gave her.
Like I am part of her.
(34:45):
My girls think I'm part of hermedical experience and that
creates a real warmth and atrust.
And I noticed when they're sickthey're like can we go see Dr
Angela?
I mean they're fine with it,they're fine with that
experience.
And I think it's because DrAngela took that little extra
time to put that sticker on herlittle basket and is thoughtful
(35:08):
enough to kind of keep it goingso I can see how.
And that's just for regularcheckups, regular sick visits,
and so I can see how having achild life specialist and having
that warmth and connectionbetween you all and the families
and the kiddos going through itcan really transform their
experience.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
It's such a simple thing, that sticker, but now
your girls probably think aboutit on the way rather than
dreading what might happen.
But, you're right.
That's a perfect example to doit.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Cat, where can people find you, connect with your
work and learn more about ChildLife On Call?
Yeah, I'm most active onInstagram.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
So you can find me there.
That's Child Life on Call.
Yeah, I'm most active onInstagram, so you can find me
there.
That's Child Life on Call.
And also my podcast is ChildLife on Call.
If you head to our website, youguessed it childlifeoncallcom
slash podcast.
You can find me there.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Cat, thank you for your heart, skill and the vision
you bring to this work and forhelping us see the power of
preparation, language andpresence in moments when
families need it most.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Thanks for being with me.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Friends, thank you for being here.
Take good care of yourself.
And that's a wrap on today'sepisode of Couch Time with Cat.
I'm so grateful you joined mehere, whether you were walking,
driving or curled up with a cupof something warm.
I hope today's conversationleft you feeling just a little
more connected to yourself and alittle less alone in whatever
you're walking through.
(36:29):
If you'd like to connect withme, you can find me at Cat,
that's C-A-T-I-A-H-O-L-Mcom, orover on Instagram at Cat.
I'd love to hear your thoughts,your questions or what this
episode stirred in you.
If we had a guest on today'sepisode, you can find all their
links and info in the show notes.
Please support their work andfollow along.
(36:51):
If they resonated with you andif this episode meant something
to you, would you please take amoment to rate, review and share
it with a friend?
These stories matter.
Your voice matters.
Until next time, be kind toyourself.
Welcome to Couch Time with Cat, your safe place for
real conversation and a gentlecheck-in.
Kwvh presents Couch Time withCat.
Hi, I'm Cat, trauma therapist,coach, tedx speaker,
best-selling author and yourhost here on Couch Time with Cat
.
I've spent over a decadewalking alongside people through
the real, raw and sacred workof becoming whole again through
(00:21):
the real, raw and sacred work ofbecoming whole again.
Couch Time with Cat.
Mental Wellness with a FriendlyVoice is where we have
conversations that are equalparts science and soul.
This is where we get honestabout anxiety, grief, burnout,
relationships and the braveeveryday work of healing.
You don't have to have it allfigured out to belong here.
Whether you're tuning in rightfrom here in the hill country or
(00:45):
listening across the world, Iwant you to feel seen, supported
and reminded that you're notalone.
So find your cozy spot, take adeep breath and let's talk about
what it means to be humantogether.
Today's conversation is about aprofession that quietly
transforms the medicalexperience for children and
families, yet far too manypeople don't even know it exists
(01:09):
.
Katie Taylor, CCLS, is theco-founder and CEO of Child Life
on Call, a digital platformrevolutionizing pediatric health
care by putting parents at thecenter of the medical journey.
With over 15 years ofexperience as a certified child
life specialist, Katie has spentmore than a decade at the
(01:30):
bedside, supporting children andtheir families in some of their
most vulnerable moments.
She's also an accomplishedauthor, podcast host, keynote
speaker and a passionateadvocate for bringing child life
services to every family whoneeds them.
Cat path has been as rich as ithas been purpose-driven.
(01:52):
After graduating from PennState, she worked with the
National Center for Missing andExploited Children, traveling
across the country to train lawenforcement, educators and
community leaders on childsafety.
Drawn to the heart of supportingchildren through medical
challenges, she trained atChildren's National Medical
(02:12):
Center and Inova Children'sHospital, going on to work at
institutions like DellChildren's in St David's in
Austin, texas.
Her clinical work spanspediatric ICUs, emergency rooms,
oncology units and evenlaunching child life services in
an 80-bed NICU.
She's witnessed firsthand howthe right preparation, language
(02:37):
and emotional support can changethe trajectory of a child's
medical experience and thefamily's healing journey as a
whole.
Today, Katie is here to answera simple but powerful question
what is a child life specialistand why are they so important,
whether you're a parent, acaregiver or simply someone who
(02:59):
wants to understand how to bringmore humanity into healthcare.
This conversation will openyour eyes to the tools, language
and presence that can make allthe difference.
Hi Katie, hi friend.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That was amazing.
Thank you so much.
I love you so much.
I'm so glad you're here.
Cat and I have been friends fora hot minute.
Yeah, I think going on a decade, decade.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Cat and I have been friends for a hot minute.
Yeah, I think going on a decade.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I know.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And I'm so proud of her.
I'm just I'm so impressed byher.
Let me not talk about you, likeyou're not here.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I'm so impressed by you.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Gosh, you're such a good person.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
The feeling is mutual .
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You're such a good person.
I'm so glad you're here to helpus understand a role that's
quietly changing lives andhospitals around the world, but
none of us really know about ityeah.
So let's start at the beginning.
Let's do that.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And I want to acknowledge that the people
listening here may not be in thepediatric healthcare space, but
everybody here was once a childand if you didn't get to grow
up and you had any kind ofmedical care or healthcare
experience and you look back onit with a little bit of fear or
unsure of like what really washappening, hopefully this
(04:11):
resonates with you.
Child life started actually as agroup of play lady volunteers
in the hospital and so back inthe day they would have
volunteers that would come anddrop off toys to kids, and now
it's completely revolutionizedinto being a major profession in
children's hospitals across thecountry, across the world, and
(04:31):
we really look at what we callis psychosocial care, so the
elements of mental health andpsychosocial support for
families and trauma-informedcare and how we can put those
together to really transform themedical experience for families
.
And the question I get all thetime is can we have an adult
life specialist?
Because just because you turn18 doesn't mean healthcare gets
(04:56):
any easier and in fact it canget harder too.
So it's a privilege to be achild life specialist and share
more about a profession becauseit's so incredibly important.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
So you gave us a little insight.
If you were to say, a childlife specialist does what
exactly?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, it would depend on who I was talking to.
I explain it a lot like it'skind of like a teacher in the
hospital.
So we don't do any of theclinical interventions, we're
not doing any of the pokes orx-rays or anything like that.
But we'll help you understandwhy it's happening and we're
going to help you through it too.
And we work with kids as littleas 22 weekers who are born into
(05:36):
the world, and we supportchildren of adult patients, so
we span really the lifespan offamilies going through pediatric
care.
So we help you understand thehospital, we help you cope with
what's happening with yourmedical experience.
A big thing for us is theelement of play and expression
and therapeutic activities thatreally normalize the healthcare
(05:57):
experience for kids and families.
That's our big big thing isplay and how we can use it and
how it can really transform fromsomething being incredibly
scary to being something that itcan actually feel quite
empowering.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Oh my God, that sounds so, so, incredibly
important.
It sounds like you helpfamilies manage these big
experiences, these diagnoses,these big moments in their life
and you kind of guide themthrough those difficult waters.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, I had the privilege of working for many
years in the operating roomspace, and so what that looks
like is I will have a familythat will come in.
Their child needs to havesurgery that day, and often they
don't know how to tell thechild what's going to happen.
Number one it's probablycomplex, right, like a hernia
repair is not something that youcan easily explain to a child
(06:51):
Circumcision tonsils andadenoids.
It's like how do I tell themwithout scaring them with what's
going to happen next?
They don't know what to expect.
They have to meet a millionpeople that day and a child life
specialist.
Really, we can meet them in thewaiting room, get to know them
and their child, assess thepersonality of the child and the
family and really start to sayhow can we make this experience
(07:12):
better for them.
Number one we want to usehonest, simple language so that
the child understands whathappens in a very age or
developmentally appropriate way.
We want to make sure the familyfeels included and
collaborative and like they knowhow to advocate for their child
because they have unique needs.
So we'll walk them literallyfrom the waiting room into the
pre-op room, help the child getchanged into their gown, right?
(07:34):
So sometimes that can be a bigtrigger for kids is having to
change their clothes.
So we prepare them for whatthat experience is going to be
like, and then we talk about theanesthesia process them for
what that experience is going tobe like, and then we talk about
the anesthesia process.
Truly, I'll bring an anesthesiamask in, get on the level with
the child and we'll just playwith it at first.
So to be able to fall asleepwith anesthesia, you have to
breathe in a mask, and we reallyneed the child to be compliant
(07:57):
in this.
We need them to breathe, and sowhat we do is we play with the
mask.
First I could put it on like alittle teddy bear or a stuffed
animal, let the child do it,have the parent put it on and
really just make it more of likea fun or playful activity where
there's not really high stakes.
I could show them pictures ofthe operating room so that
before they get back to theoperating room they know what
(08:19):
it's going to look like, whothey're going to see, who
they're going to meet, and thenI truly get to accompany the
child back into the operatingroom and be with them until they
fall asleep.
Sometimes we use tactics likeor an alternative focus, so
letting the child watch a movieas they fall asleep.
Sometimes we pretend we'reblowing up a big balloon and
then the child will fall asleepand they were supported during
(08:41):
that entire experience and it'sso often that I'll come and
report back to the parent abouthow it went and they thought,
wow, we had no idea this day wasgoing to go that way, and
that's a really encouraging andvery honoring experience to help
a family through something thatthey thought was going to be
really scary and make it muchless scary and more manageable
for the entire family.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
You kind of took my breath away.
That sounds.
The thing that I'm thinkingabout is generationally we used
to really force kids take it orelse do it, or else just be
quiet.
The doctor is talking like alot of forcing, a lot of
difficult looks, tones.
(09:25):
I'm imagining, really I'mimagining like a square, lots of
rough edges and just a lot offorce, brute force, to get the
kid to do something, and itsounds like this is coming at it
from the completely oppositeway, which is, let's inform the
child, let's be that really youguys are the bridge.
(09:48):
Child life specialists are thebridge between the child and the
family and the medical system,and so you don't exactly fit in
the medical system but you helpthe family and the child
understand the medical system.
Would you say that's accurate?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
That's absolutely it, and we're able to really
transfer skills.
You know, kind of across theoperating room was one example.
Another one would be hostingbingo in the playroom, so
something really simple.
But what it does is it can getkids out of bed.
So if they did have a surgery,they need to be walking in order
to be discharged.
Let's get you to the playroom,let's play around a bingo, then
(10:26):
you can get back to your bed.
But that was actually somethingthey had to accomplish that day
in order to heal faster orrecover faster, but it felt like
play, so they were able to doit.
For siblings who aren't able tobe with their brother or sister
during long hospital stays,we'll interact with them and
make sure they're educated aboutwhat to expect, about what
their sibling is going through,invite them to come to bingo in
(10:47):
the playroom.
Then it really turns into afamily bonding moment.
We know that when families arein the hospital, when they're
going through medicalexperiences, so much of their
power is stripped away, and theplayroom in a hospital is really
a place where they get theirpower back.
They can choose what they wantto do.
There are no interventions,even taking medicine, allowed in
(11:09):
a playroom.
We have very strict rules thatthis is the child's space.
So if they have to take amedicine, we actually make them
go back to their room to do it,because we want this to just be
the safe space that kids get togo to.
On the other side of the coin,we can work in emergency room
situations where things come inreally fast and are really high
stakes and let's say thatthere's a child who comes in and
(11:30):
is needing in the trauma roomand needs CPR and progress.
I'll stand at the head of thebed with the parent and let them
know exactly what's happening,what the role of each team
member is, tell the parent whatrole they can play, answer their
questions, get them a seat sothey can sit down.
We work really closely withsocial work in a lot of those
high risk situations.
(11:51):
So it's truly an honor and aprivilege to understand
healthcare and be able to lookat it from a psychosocial,
trauma-informed lens and thenlook at the family and see how
can we make this the bestexperience possible.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Are child life specialists only in hospitals.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Great, great question .
We have started to branch outinto the community over the past
couple of decades.
You'll see child lifespecialists working in hospice,
working in dental offices.
You'll see them working injails and prisons, child
advocacy centers, becausethere's so many opportunities
where kids have to go throughtough things and it's nice to
have that advocate whounderstands psychosocial and
(12:31):
trauma-informed care to help thechild and family through it.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It sounds like child life specialists are essential
in multiple ways in pediatriccare.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
What do you wish child life specialists?
What space do you wish a childlife specialist could take up in
pediatric care that they aren'tnecessarily taking up right now
?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I think my big wish is that there were more of us.
Right now there's only about6,000.
And if we think about the factthat 21 million kids go into ERs
every single year, there's justno match that every family gets
access to that.
And that's where my big youknow, purpose of Child Life On
(13:13):
Call is is I want to equip andempower parents to understand
some of these things that I'mtalking about now so, if they
don't have access to a childlife specialist, they can
actually learn some of thethings that I would do and then
do it with their own child.
So that's my whole big soapbox,as you know teaching and
reaching what child life can do.
Equip parents with thatinformation so that, if they
(13:36):
don't get access to it, theyknow how to really tackle any
complex situation with theirchild.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
In terms of increasing the amount of child
life specialists out there.
What does training look like?
How does one become a childlife specialist?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Great question.
So you have to have anundergrad degree in child life
or a related field.
So for a lot of us that lookslike child psychology or
psychology or sociology.
Some of us come from nursing ordifferent backgrounds.
We then go through a clinicalsupervision period where you
have to get accepted into aninternship program.
(14:14):
We work for about 600 hours,unpaid but supervised by a child
life specialist workingclinically or in the community,
and then after that period youcan sign off from your
internship, take a certificationexam and then we have
continuing education that we doevery five years to recertify.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Man, that's 600 hours .
That's a real barrier to whocan enter that field.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
That is a big problem for us, absolutely Not only
just awareness that theprofession exists and that
people will often find out alittle bit later and say, oh, I
wish I could have done that, butalso there's a complete barrier
to entry.
To be able to work for free for600 hours is not possible.
The landscape is changing a bitIn our online networking and
(15:01):
forums.
I'm seeing a few hospitalsoffer paid internships, which
would change the game for us.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Therapists are in a similar boat.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
We have a year internship while we're in
graduate school where we have towork for free.
Yeah, I feel like it's also 600hours.
Yeah, I don't really rememberthat number exactly.
It's a blur.
Yeah 600 hours?
I don't, I don't reallyremember that number exactly,
it's a blur, but I rememberthinking who can do this?
I was.
I was really only able to do itbecause my husband is a
(15:29):
provider and I.
I couldn't have done itotherwise.
So I feel like people whootherwise have the heart and the
will for it are automaticallyweeded out because we can't
afford to feed our families andto raise our families and work
600 hours for free.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
There's absolutely a privilege that comes with being
able to even enter theprofession, let alone complete
that internship for 600 hours.
I myself was able.
I was living with my boyfriendat the time so he could cover
the rent, and then I was workingat a retail store.
So I would leave the hospital,go work a night shift.
You're in an evening shift in aretail store, or Saturdays or
(16:09):
Sundays.
It was exhausting, it was hardto do, wow.
But when you're driven you knowwhat you want.
You go for it.
Looking back, wow, I'mimpressed that I did that yeah
you are impressive, I amimpressive.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
What happens when families don't have access to
child life services?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
There's a big risk.
I think, when families don'tget access to child life
services, that their familyexperience in the hospital won't
be as, I think, impactful as itcould have been.
Parents don't learn how toadvocate for their child.
They're not able to see andmodel what the child life
specialist can teach them.
(16:48):
Hospital patient satisfactionscores can go down and then
ultimately that leads to worseoutcomes.
Children could be noncompliantbecause they don't understand
what's happening.
They go into the situation withfear rather than feeling
empowered and like they have ajob to do and they know exactly
what's happening.
So things take longer.
Sometimes they'll need moremedicine.
(17:08):
An example of this is you know,I can be talking with a family
and just because I have theability to speak with them, I'll
learn that the child hates agrape flavor.
What do you know?
What comes up from pharmacy buta grape flavored medication
that the child won't take.
But the nurse hasn't gottenthat information yet, so now it
takes longer because we have tosend it back to the pharmacist.
So the communication loop isreally important and when child
(17:32):
life isn't there to kind of,like you said, be the bridge
between the family and thehealth care team, a lot of
things can get missed, takelonger and ultimately decrease
the outcomes for kids.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
As you were speaking and you said the bridge, I
remember I had a doula for eachof my births and I had two
hospital births and she wasvital.
She was a vital part.
She was my bridge.
She got to know me before andwe were very comfortable with
her.
We knew she was competent andkind and we knew she had.
(18:05):
She knew how to navigate ahospital and nurses, yeah, and
doctors and medication and allthese things that I did not have
the bandwidth for as I waslaboring yeah you know I don't.
if a doctor came and said, hey,why don't you try this
medication, it's going to helpyou.
I have zero margin to to make adecision, to understand, we're
(18:30):
out of our wheelhouse and so ourdoula's name is D'Andrea and
she, she did.
She made all those decisionsand she knew how to make those
decisions on my behalf.
She'd check in with me, buthaving her was a real luxury and
it sounds like that's a reallysimilar experience.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
That's such a good analogy to bring.
I see a lot of.
I have a good friend.
She's a child life specialistwho turned doula.
The transition was really easybecause she could already
navigate the health care systemand she just started advocating
for another group.
It wasn't children, but it waswomen and that person is so
essential for a positive birthexperience.
(19:12):
I feel that way for kids andfamilies facing pediatric care,
Child life is essential for thatreally good, deep, meaningful,
positive experience.
When you have a, you know I'llhave families come in and I can
tell that the parents have beenthrough something traumatic
medically and that they'rerubbing it off on their child,
not intentionally, because theywant to protect them.
(19:34):
So they'll say something likeoh, I have the worst veins, it
takes eight sticks in order toget blood and they kind of put
that on their child withoutmeaning to.
Had that parent had a childlife specialist or someone to
walk them through and make it anempowering experience, they
wouldn't put that on their child.
And then the child then, youknow, listens and takes that in
(19:55):
and internalizes it and it canreally change the experience.
And we want kids to start offhaving great health care
experiences so they learn how toadvocate for themselves as they
navigate health care for therest of their lives and they're
different languages.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Imagine just dropping into brazil and trying to
navigate, trying to navigatesomething in a completely
different language than otherthan your native language, and
you're trying to make decisionson the fly and you're doing it
with this diagnosis or thisexperience on the line, and
that's a lot of pressure for thelay person oh, absolutely, and
(20:31):
it's something as simple as anurse coming in very quickly
saying, okay, I need to flushyour iv.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Let's break that down for what that means for a child
.
Flush is something I do at thetoilet.
Let's break that down for whatthat means for a child.
Flush is something I do at thetoilet and IV is like IV.
Are we talking about a planthere?
So instead we would saysomething like we need to give
water to the tiny straw that'sin your vein.
So just kind of like you said,translating that language so
it's more understandable thechild's less scared.
(20:56):
You know we're going to go intoa CAT scan.
Well, are there going to becats there?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
scared.
You know we're going to go intoa cat scan.
Well, are there going to becats there?
You know, instead it's reallyjust a circle camera.
I have never thought about anyof this, yeah, yes, wow, how
empowering.
That's incredible, thank you.
Children often imagine theworst when they don't understand
what's happening, just like youwere saying, going into a CAT
scan.
So what's another way?
You use language or play tohelp a child understand what's
(21:24):
about to happen?
Speaker 2 (21:26):
I use it in a lot of different ways and I think
parents, grandparents can reallytake this Play is a tool to
understand the child's world.
So really getting down on thefloor to play, listening to how
they're doing it, looking formisconceptions so sometimes I'll
ask the floor to play,listening to how they're doing
it, looking for misconceptions.
So sometimes I'll ask a childto play out what they think is
going to happen, and what thatdoes is.
(21:47):
It allows me to see what doesthe child understand?
What do they know?
For example, I was playing oncewith a little girl.
She was six years old, she wasdiagnosed with cancer and we
were playing with some medicalplay dolls.
And of course when I play it'schild-led, otherwise it's not
play.
So when we're playing together,she takes her marker, she gets
(22:09):
her medical play doll, she rubsred all over this doll and she
had just been diagnosed withleukemia.
So in my head I am thinking,wow, she totally understands
that this is a blood disorderand a blood cancer.
So at the end I say, tell meabout what you've drawn on this
doll.
And she was like those are thefireballs that are all over her
body.
And so there was a moment whereI thought, oh crap.
(22:31):
She has this misconception thatthere's fireballs all over her
body.
And so I said is that what youthink is happening in your body?
She goes no, I have cancer body.
And so I said, is that what youthink is happening in your body
?
She goes, no, I have cancer.
So I love that play can beincredibly deep and it can also
be play and not that deep too.
But what that was?
(22:56):
I got to see her play andimagine and dream and she had
just watched a show aboutfireballs and it was about that.
But it opened up theconversation for me to
understand.
What does she know?
She knows there's a differencebetween fireballs and it was
about that.
But it opened up theconversation for me to
understand.
What does she know?
Speaker 1 (23:03):
she knows there's a difference between fireballs and
leukemia also that play andthat clarification helps you not
impose your own fears, like youwere saying earlier with the
parents your own fears, your ownjudgments or your own
perceptions and meaning.
Yeah, she may think, okay, okay, I have leukemia, well, we're
going to get this taken care of.
She may not have that kind ofoverwhelming sense of dread or
(23:27):
fear like a parent does.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Absolutely, it's all we're thinking about.
It's the elephant in the room,but for her, she just watched a
show and they happened to havefireballs on there, so that's
what she drew.
When we're talking about achild getting an IV which is
really common when you have amedical experience or you're in
the hospital I love to talkabout it like a tiny Barbie
drinking straw, especially forthose kids who are in that like
(23:49):
preschool to early school age,because they're playing with
dolls, so it's something theyknow and understand, and we were
like how tiny would a straw beif a Barbie was drinking it?
So we take the conversationfrom like you're going to have
to get a needle stick to likelet's throw in some play, let's
imagine a little bit andBarbie's going to need a drink
with this tiny straw.
Let's give it to your vein too.
(24:10):
That is sweet.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
How do you support parents and siblings during a
hospital stay?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Oh my gosh, I just want to run up to every parent,
give them a cup of coffee andsay do you need a minute?
Have you showered, have yougone to the bathroom?
Because a lot of times theanswer is no.
I've been holding it.
The doctor might come in.
So the first thing I do whenI'm like do you need a beat?
I introduce them to what I do,make sure they're on board.
(24:39):
Collaborative, let them knowwhat I'm going to tell their
child so that they're on board.
I would love for parents to be apart of the conversation and
the play whenever possible.
Sometimes they don't have thebandwidth, so tired, they'd
rather just kind of sit andscroll on their phone.
I love that too, because itgives them a tiny break.
So my first thing is like arethe caregiver's needs met?
My second thing is what can Ido to help support them?
(25:01):
What do they need done?
What clarifications do theyneed about their child's care?
And, number three, how can Iuniquely show up for this family
?
Not every family is goingthrough the same experience or
needs the same things, so a lotof that is my assessment process
.
How can I support this family?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Earlier you said there are only 6,000.
I keep thinking about thatnumber and I know you have a
huge heart for expanding thatnumber.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
And so what have you done so far to kind of fill that
gap between how many child lifespecialists there are and how
many there should be?
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, I had an interaction with a mom and it
was pivotal for me.
She had a three-week-old withmeningitis in the ICU here in
Austin Three weeks and when youhave bacterial meningitis, that
earns you at least a 21-day stayat the beginning of your life's
journey.
So this mom was a new mom andshe looked at me and it was dark
(25:59):
in the room and I just rememberlike the new mom and she looked
at me and it was dark in theroom and I just remember like
the IV beeping and she looked atme and she said, please just
connect me to another mom who'sgone through this before.
And I couldn't.
I didn't have another mom inthe hallway.
It was a tiny children'shospital at the time.
I didn't have another mom Icould connect her with.
And I thought to myself, if Icould put a podcast in her ear
of another mom with athree-week-old with bacterial
(26:21):
meningitis, she would havesomeone.
And that began the mission ofChild Life On Call, which is my
podcast.
So we have over 265 episodes ofparents sharing their stories
of what it's like.
So the next time a parent looksat me and says can you please
tell me another parent has gonethrough this before I'm able to
give them a resource and theseconversations.
(26:43):
I've learned so much about thepediatric and parent experience
and how essential it is forother parents to learn from
others who have gone through itbefore, and that it's really, I
think, my life's mission.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
You started a podcast inside your closet.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
As we do.
Yeah, that's right, that'sexactly right.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
And then you also created an app.
Yes, can you tell us about it?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, that's another gap closer.
So for me it was important thatas soon as families get
admitted to the hospital,they're told we're not just
caring medically, we're caringpsychosocially for your family
too is an app that we license tochildren's hospitals so that,
(27:26):
upon admissions, families arenotified, they have access to
Support Spot, which has not onlyChild Life on Call resources
and all of our podcast episodes,but the resources that the
hospitals have, which oftendon't even get into the hands of
the family because theclinicians just aren't available
like we want to be.
So parking information, rightwhen to stay, where to eat, how
often the virtual support groupsmeet, all of these things that
(27:48):
exist to support families butoften don't get put in the hands
of families.
So support spot is thatessential tool.
You're admitted, here you go,you get support.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
You're talking about that like it's something you did
over the weekend, but but Iknow better yeah, how long did
that take to create?
What was that process like?
Speaker 2 (28:10):
well, um, my dad and I co-founded this company
together in March of 2020because we have an amazing
timing.
I don't know if you rememberwhat was happening in the world
at that point Christmas yeah.
Christmas in March.
Christmas in March, yeah,christmas in March.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Wow, March of 2020.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
March of 2020 is March.
14th is when we have our LLCdate.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I was working in the hospital.
My husband was also in healthcare, so it was a really scary
time, but because my husbandwasn't able to go to work, he
could stay home with the kidsand I was really able to dive in
and figure out how do we takethis idea to our MVP our minimum
viable product and so we workedand we created this app
(28:51):
alongside a company, and we'reable to pilot in our first
hospital in January of 2022.
I'm so proud of you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
What else did you do during COVID?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
My husband made sourdough, so I ate a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
You wrote a book.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Oh, the super silly wash your hands dance book.
That was such a beautiful book.
Working in a NICU, I know thatwashing hands saves lives and
that it would honestly besometimes a barrier for why
siblings couldn't come in.
So the wash your hands dancebook was really a gift to
siblings of NICU babies to learnhow to wash their hands
(29:27):
thoroughly before they visitedtheir baby.
And it turned out to have adouble meaning, as it was COVID
and we all really needed to washour hands.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
We ordered that book and we had it at every sink for
our girls.
How sweet yeah during COVID.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah, it was a love kind of book with my son and he
picked all the characters thatwere in it.
I worked with an amazingillustrator, hannah Cat
Llewellyn, and yeah, it was abeautiful little children's book
.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
If a parent listening right now doesn't have access
to child life services, what'sone thing they can do today to
help prepare and support theirchild in a medical situation?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
yeah, I love that chat.
Gpt is a tool now it's a toolwe've never had before.
So I would truly go tochildlifeoncallcom and we have a
backslash.
Find a child life specialistthere.
You have child life specialiststhat work virtually so you you
can connect with one yeah, andanother thing you can do is you
(30:26):
can truly just put your child'sage what they're going to have
done for their medical procedureinto chat GPT and say give this
to me in simple language in away that I can tell my child at
their developmental level, andit will spit out some pretty
good information.
Of course, you'll have to talkwith your child, always let them
lead the conversation, butit'll give you some clues about
(30:49):
how to take something complexand make it really simple to
understand.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
What other tools can parents find on your website?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You can download the Support Spot app.
Of course, we have Child LifeSpecialist written procedure
guides so that you know what toexpect, what the sensory
experiences are you're going togo through and what I think is
the really special sauce of howto advocate for your child in
that moment.
If you don't know how tonavigate it On the website, we
also have free downloads, acoping plan so that you and your
(31:18):
child, ahead of time, cancreate really just kind of a
conversation about what can theychoose when they're in the room
where there's not a lot ofchoices.
I love to say things like letyour child choose to sit on the
chair or the bed.
Let your child choose to bringthe iPad or a book.
Let your child choose to holdyour hand or hold a squish ball.
These are things that kids cando that can really change the
(31:41):
game during that medicalexperience.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Gives them some autonomy where they really don't
have much.
You got it.
What's your vision for howtechnology and human connection
can work together to transformpediatric care?
Speaker 2 (31:54):
My vision is that every single family who gets a
medical experience has access tochild life tools and resources,
and I would love to say thatevery family gets that
one-on-one child life specialistin the room, because nothing
can replace that.
But I know that technology canhelp accelerate the way that we
get information to families, soI think for me it's that every
(32:18):
family who faces it knows how toprepare, support and then
respond to their childtherapeutically during medical
experiences prepare support andthen respond to their child
therapeutically during medicalexperiences.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
So it sounds like the gold standard and if you can
get it is an in-person childlife specialist.
Yeah, and absent of that, wecan rely on technology in the
form of your app or poppingsomething into ChatGPT that says
hey, how do.
I support my child through this, but ultimately it's the human
connection that makes adifference.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
It's the human connection and collaborate with
your provider and your care team.
They have been through thisbefore.
You can ask them hey, what'sworked for other kids before?
What have you heard?
Works really well, and they cangive you a ton of insight too.
So it's not just child lifespecialists.
We do have a very special role,but there's a lot of support
around you and your care teamwants your child and your family
(33:08):
to do really well and heal, soalways using them as a resource.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Just because they're not offering it doesn't mean
that they don't want to offer it.
It just probably means thatthey're busy and maybe it's not
top of mind.
But if we pause and ask them aquestion and ask them to support
us in that way, it sounds likeyou're saying that they'll have
tools available to help usthrough.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, I mean I facilitate that all the time.
If we go into my child's doctorappointment I'll ask the tech
what's your name, what's yourfavorite color?
My child's favorite color isblue.
Like I'm connecting them withthe care team and I'm kind of
doing it in a way so ithumanizes my child as not just a
patient but a person.
But it also has my childconnect with the person who's
(33:50):
going to be taking care of themand that's a real simple
conversation.
I love to play.
I spy when we're in a room.
It's really normalizing theexperience, getting play
involved whenever possible andthen really building that human
connection involved wheneverpossible and then really
building that human connection.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
My daughters, we take them to see their doctor and
we've been with her for a verylong time and my youngest gave
her a sticker and she put Angela, dr Angela put it on her little
tool basket.
She's had it on her little toolbasket for six or seven years.
She's changed locations.
(34:25):
She keeps tool basket for sixor seven years she's changed
locations.
She keeps the tool basket,keeps the sticker.
So when we go see Dr Angela thegirls are like, hey, do you
have the sticker?
How's the sticker?
Yeah, and there is so muchconnection and pride there
because oh, my doctor caresabout me.
She kept the sticker I gave her.
Like I am part of her.
(34:45):
My girls think I'm part of hermedical experience and that
creates a real warmth and atrust.
And I noticed when they're sickthey're like can we go see Dr
Angela?
I mean they're fine with it,they're fine with that
experience.
And I think it's because DrAngela took that little extra
time to put that sticker on herlittle basket and is thoughtful
(35:08):
enough to kind of keep it goingso I can see how.
And that's just for regularcheckups, regular sick visits,
and so I can see how having achild life specialist and having
that warmth and connectionbetween you all and the families
and the kiddos going through itcan really transform their
experience.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
It's such a simple thing, that sticker, but now
your girls probably think aboutit on the way rather than
dreading what might happen.
But, you're right.
That's a perfect example to doit.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Cat, where can people find you, connect with your
work and learn more about ChildLife On Call?
Yeah, I'm most active onInstagram.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
So you can find me there.
That's Child Life on Call.
Yeah, I'm most active onInstagram, so you can find me
there.
That's Child Life on Call.
And also my podcast is ChildLife on Call.
If you head to our website, youguessed it childlifeoncallcom
slash podcast.
You can find me there.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Cat, thank you for your heart, skill and the vision
you bring to this work and forhelping us see the power of
preparation, language andpresence in moments when
families need it most.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Thanks for being with me.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
Friends, thank you for being here.
Take good care of yourself.
And that's a wrap on today'sepisode of Couch Time with Cat.
I'm so grateful you joined mehere, whether you were walking,
driving or curled up with a cupof something warm.
I hope today's conversationleft you feeling just a little
more connected to yourself and alittle less alone in whatever
you're walking through.
(36:29):
If you'd like to connect withme, you can find me at Cat,
that's C-A-T-I-A-H-O-L-Mcom, orover on Instagram at Cat.
I'd love to hear your thoughts,your questions or what this
episode stirred in you.
If we had a guest on today'sepisode, you can find all their
links and info in the show notes.
Please support their work andfollow along.
(36:51):
If they resonated with you andif this episode meant something
to you, would you please take amoment to rate, review and share
it with a friend?
These stories matter.
Your voice matters.
Until next time, be kind toyourself.
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