May 29, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode Tink schools Gillian, and our listening community, on how on earth she seems to have such an easy time meeting cute sweeties in real life. Gillian identifies some things that have tended to hold her back in doing this, in particular middle-school lingering fears of rejection, or even of it being shameful to be a human in the world with eyes and ears who might potentially look at or jump into the conversation of someone else in a public space. Together, we discuss some psychological ideas about confidence, authenticity, and balancing discernment with loving like you can't be hurt.
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Episode Transcript
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Rebekah Tinker (00:00):
If they're also looking and you've got the
connect, why not just push itand see?
Okay.
Because making eye contactshows confidence.
Holding eye contact is justsuch a like...
It's a flex.
Well, it's saying I'm notafraid.
Gillian Boudreau (00:17):
I'm Gillian Boudreau.
And I'm Rebekah Tinker.
And you're listening toEmotional Physics.
Unknown (00:26):
Emotional Physics
Gillian Boudreau (00:34):
Hi, Gillly.
Hi.
How are you doing?
I'm doing pretty good.
I'm excited for our topic todaybecause I was talking to a good
friend who is an acupuncturistrecently, and she always has
just like really nice naturalworld metaphors for things.
And I was telling her about howlike in the spring, I just feel
(00:55):
like, I don't know, like Peoplewho were kind of taking a
hiatus from dating are kind oflike back into it.
And people just feel likethey're little buzzy bees
hopping around, like seeingwhat's going on.
And she reminded me, she'slike, yeah, well, I'm in my
garden right now.
And if you look at the plantsand the shoots, it's like
everything is exploding rightnow.
And it's not the time of theyear where like you would
(01:18):
necessarily be weeding a lot.
You're just seeing a ton ofshoots and a ton of explosions.
And you're just waiting to seewhat's what before you start
really pruning or just And I waslike, that is true.
That is a great metaphor
Rebekah Tinker (01:32):
for the now, for this topic.
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (01:35):
It is.
And so I was so glad we got thequestion we got because it's
just perfect.
So I'm just thrilled.
Should we play the question?
Let's play the question.
Rebekah Tinker (01:42):
Okay, cool.
Listener question.
Listener question.
We have the question.
We have, we have the question.
Unknown (01:51):
We have, we have.
Listener (01:55):
Hey, love the pod.
Curious if you guys can chatabout meeting new people, how to
get back in the dating fieldand also navigating first dates.
Thanks so much.
I love this person.
Gillian Boudreau (02:10):
One thing I love is that, and I do this too,
sometimes if you need to ask avulnerable question, it helps to
write it down first.
Rebekah Tinker (02:18):
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (02:19):
And I could feel that person had written and
then read their question.
And I just want to say,listeners, we love nothing more
than your questions.
You can send them to us at ourwebsite,
EmotionalPhysicsPodcast.com.
You can write them down.
You can voice note them to us.
You can write them down andthen read them and voice note
that to us.
Any way you do it.
It's our favorite thing.
(02:39):
We love your questions.
Rebekah Tinker (02:40):
And I know that a lot of people maybe feel a
little unsure about sendingtheir voices.
Of course, it's our preferencewe could potentially chat with
Amar our producer about likechanging your voice if you feel
weird oh
Listener (02:56):
we have voice modulation
Rebekah Tinker (02:59):
if you want to send us a voice recorded
question and you don't want yourvoice we'll just write it down
and read it okay So we'retalking about meeting new people
and we're talking about firstdates.
Gillian Boudreau (03:10):
Yes.
And I think this is a reallyimportant topic.
So this is something that Tinkand I both deal with all the
time in our couples therapyrealm.
And then I also think one thingthat I find sort of sweet and
funny about this podcast...
I feel very confident in mycouples therapy seat.
I feel like I'm a very goodcouples therapist.
I know that I help peopleconnect and get what they want
(03:32):
in relationships.
So like speaking as atherapist, I feel totally
confident.
And then from a best friendperspective, this is also a
podcast of two best friends, oneof whom is the just so perfect.
talented in the realm of justfinding love and keeping love
and just choosing well and justbeing successful.
(03:52):
And the other one who has somehangups and has a little bit of
a few stressors in their ownpersonal life.
And so today I'm also reallyexcited just for Tink to share
how the F she does it becauseshe just is so natural with
this.
I
Rebekah Tinker (04:14):
It's one of those things that I really
appreciate that you think I'msuch a natural at.
I really do.
Because when I look at it, I'mlike, yeah, I've had a lot of
really awesome people I've beenin relationship with.
And the majority of all ofthose relationships are also
over.
Well, that doesn't mean they'rea failure, though.
No, it doesn't.
Not in any way at all.
Yeah.
(04:34):
In fact, I don't think any ofour relationships, no matter who
they're with, any of us, Idon't honestly.
And maybe this is jaded as Ihaven't been in a relationship.
Yes, yes.
That I've had a fewrelationships now where I've had
(05:13):
to repeat a lesson.
And so that's maybe where mybrain is like, but have I
actually done a good job?
Because I had to repeat alesson.
Gillian Boudreau (05:21):
But the most important lessons always have to
get repeated.
You know, if we think abouteven just how a person learns to
walk or learns to talk, likethat's via a great deal of
repetition.
It's helpful to feel moreintegrated about it.
Speaker 02 (05:33):
I
Gillian Boudreau (05:34):
don't mean to make this my personal therapy,
but it's half my podcast andI'll do what I want for a
moment.
So I don't know if anylisteners will resonate with
this, but I feel split in a fewways.
So one, as we think aboutmeeting new people, I find it
interesting about myself thatfor honestly such a confident
person, like I am, if anything,an overconfident person, right?
(05:55):
But I still can get a littlebit quick and Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(06:28):
even though I've actually beenthrough a lot of gnarly shit,
and I have emerged feeling thateven those things were
(06:49):
opportunities, but I still feelscared.
Rebekah Tinker (06:51):
And I guess that is maybe where we differ, where
first dates and meeting peopleI actually get excited about.
Gillian Boudreau (06:59):
I do, too.
I do, too.
But it's a mix of fear andexcitement, and maybe you really
don't have a lot of fear aboutit, and maybe that's part of the
magic.
Rebekah Tinker (07:08):
No, yeah, I do walk into the meeting of people
with, like...
A feeling of I have nothing tolose.
That's
Gillian Boudreau (07:15):
the key, people.
Okay.
So that is, I think that is thesecret.
You do.
You do.
And that's how we even becamebest friends.
Because like we clicked veryquickly.
We were laughing hystericallyacross our integrative therapy
sharing circle one day back inthe Vermont time.
And I remember I learned somuch from you.
(07:37):
But like even in like afriendship falling in love way,
I knew we were friendshipfalling in love.
And I was very blunt about it.
Well, yeah, because I knew onmy end that like, oh, I would
love to be best friends withthis person.
But it honestly probably wouldhave taken me still another year
or two to broach that.
And you were just like, I feellike we're best friends.
(07:58):
Do you want to just be bestfriends?
And I was like, yes.
But I was like, wow, I neverwould have had the courage to
say that at this point.
And I'm so glad you did.
And that was another move oflike, you knew you didn't have
anything to lose.
If for some reason, I think forone, you trusted your gut.
You could tell that I did wantto be best friends.
And for two, I'm sure that evenif I didn't want to be best
friends, you knew that wouldn'tkill you.
Rebekah Tinker (08:19):
I knew it wouldn't kill me.
And I also, I think, I don'teven think I considered whether
or not it would kill me is thething.
Is I just didn't even considerthat maybe it could go awry.
I was just like, oh, well, duh.
Yeah, we're best friends.
I didn't even consider whetheryou'd consent to it.
I had just already known.
So I just
Gillian Boudreau (08:40):
announced it.
It wasn't even like a question.
So part of it is the healthymagic of impulsivity.
Rebekah Tinker (08:46):
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (08:46):
Yeah.
I love that.
This is also a veryneurodiversity-affirming
podcast.
I also have impulsivity.
That helps me in my life.
But my impulsivity isn't always– and this is really healthy
impulsivity because I think itcan help us get up and around–
overthinking, right?
Or things that might hold usback.
I do have that in other areasof life, like getting on stage,
(09:07):
right?
Or like volunteering to do athing.
But my impulsivity does notalways give me wings in the
relational realm.
Anyway, so that's us.
But I just wanted, I thought itwould be fun to kind of frame
it that way before we get intoit.
Rebekah Tinker (09:20):
I like it.
That's good.
Okay, so I think we break itdown into a few different topics
here.
So the question is really like,
Gillian Boudreau (09:27):
freaking how do you like meet people?
How do we do this?
How do we And I
Rebekah Tinker (09:33):
think that we should just, for the sake of the
podcast here, X out the idea ofonline dating only because it's
an obvious answer.
I
Gillian Boudreau (09:43):
actually love that.
Okay, selfishly, I love Xingout the idea of online dating.
And there are probably manypeople listening to this, I
would say probably most, forwhom online dating can work
great.
And if so, go online date.
Surprise, surprise.
Rebekah Tinker (09:59):
I'm really good.
I love it.
Gillian Boudreau (10:00):
Yes.
Tink is as magical at onlinedating as she is at any other
form.
Rebekah Tinker (10:06):
Many of my partners I've found online.
On the online dating realm.
It worked
Gillian Boudreau (10:11):
well.
So that's one thing we can do.
And maybe we will even touch onthat a little bit.
But I feel like because onlinedating is so much the default.
Rebekah Tinker (10:19):
Online dating is a separate episode.
And today we're going to focuson meeting people in the wild
and how to navigate first dateinvitations and vibes and
activities, etc.
Gillian Boudreau (10:31):
So maybe even we'll just title this podcast
Dating in the Wild and thenwe'll have another one.
Dating in the Wild.
Yeah.
Okay.
There you are.
I actually have not had thatmuch luck with online dating.
(11:07):
Mostly related to are you in aband?
Yes or no.
And then I kind of like cameback on the dating scene in my
mid 30s when suddenly everybodywas online.
I was like sort of triedOKCupid, but I didn't know what
I was doing.
So it's never felt natural tome.
But one thing that has beentrue is that sometimes I've put
up an online profile and Thiswas especially true in Vermont
(11:29):
because it's so small.
I feel like in Vermont, onlinedating is you're actually just
basically making a billboard andputting it in the town square
in case anyone was wondering ifyou're single.
It's like, now you know.
Well, no, it's one of thoseplaces where you get to the end
Rebekah Tinker (11:45):
each day.
Oh, you get to the end in 15minutes.
Yeah, so quick.
There's five other people.
We're going to put that on theshelf now.
Okay, so where else in the wildcould one meet someone?
Okay, where else?
I have a lot of ideas.
I'm thinking of all differentpeople I've met in the wild who
(12:07):
I've then dated.
Dog park.
You have so much luck at thefrickin' dog park.
I love the dog park.
I have definitely had a lot ofluck.
So dog park, run clubs, or justother random people running.
As well, like finding a pacethat's similar and then starting
a convo.
Pick up sporting events, likepick up soccer or whatever it
(12:30):
might be at a coffee shop.
Two different times, actually,at a coffee shop.
At a coffee shop?
With my barista both times.
Gillian Boudreau (12:38):
Oh, gosh.
No, of course.
I knew about the one barista.
It's also important not to getdiscouraged because for most
mortals, the baristas are notflirting with us.
We think they are.
That's their job, but they'renot.
But with Tink, they literallyare.
Rebekah Tinker (12:53):
Well, no, you just got to be...
Really, my approach is justbeing so assertive.
Gillian Boudreau (12:58):
You're very bold.
You're very sassy and bold.
Did you initially hit on thebarista that I'm thinking about?
Kind of.
Rebekah Tinker (13:04):
I had just gone for a run, and it was the dead
of winter, and...
I showed up at the coffee shopat like 7 a.m.
I was still dark out.
I wanted to change at thecoffee shop before going to
work.
And so I ordered my coffee andthere was really great rap
playing at 7 a.m., which I alsothought was a bold move for 7
(13:28):
a.m.
In Vermont.
In Vermont.
And I was, I was, it feltreally on point to me.
I was just like, this is soright in this moment.
Anyways.
Went to the bathroom to change.
She made my coffee.
We chit-chatted a little bit.
And then I want to say it waslater that we went to this
(13:50):
coffee shop a lot.
All the time.
We lived there.
I also had an office in thatbuilding.
And you did too.
I had an office next door.
Next door, yeah.
It went back down to the coffeeshop.
I think it was later that day.
Maybe it was the next day.
And like for a few days, wejust kept making eyes.
It was sweet.
And then...
Through the Instagram, thecoffee shop had posted, I don't
know, something of hers.
Gillian Boudreau (14:11):
OK,
Rebekah Tinker (14:12):
so I knew then her handle.
And so then I posted a pictureof the coffee she had made me
that was like pristinelybeautiful.
And I said something about likeit could have been interpreted
as just cool.
This person thinks I'm a greatbarista or it could have been
interpreted as, oh, this is amove.
I didn't want to be too forwardbecause I assumed she was
(14:36):
queer.
I wasn't positive she wasqueer.
I assumed she was making eyesat me back, but I wasn't
positive she was making eyes atme back.
So I just like post that andthen she commented and then it
suddenly turned into liketalking all the time and person
like having coffee and all that.
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (14:50):
Cute.
Rebekah Tinker (14:51):
But where else can we meet people in the wild?
A local event?
Comedy venue?
Gillian, you've met people at acomedy venue.
Gillian Boudreau (14:59):
Yeah, it always ends up happening for me
through performance.
Once I was doing stand up aboutmy difficulties dating.
Speaker 02 (15:08):
Mm hmm.
Gillian Boudreau (15:08):
And also a little bit about platonic baby
daddy and baby, even though theywere not part of the
difficulties dating.
These were like two separatelike threads.
But it was actually reallyideal because someone who was a
lovely partner saw that set.
And then he basically was like,sounds good to me.
And he hit on me after theshow.
And then he just like alreadyknew everything.
(15:30):
It was so nice.
Rebekah Tinker (15:31):
Yeah, that was a really good one.
That was a great relationshipfor you.
Gillian Boudreau (15:34):
Yeah, it really was.
Yeah.
Or also through friends.
Oh, you know, what?
Dance class.
I first uncovered my queernessand fell.
Oh, you got obsessed withsomeone.
I know that wasn't great and itdidn't work out.
But I did really fall for a galin a dance class.
That was a I mean, it wasgreat.
It really taught me a lot aboutmyself, even though it didn't
(15:57):
turn into a romanticrelationship, but it turned into
a lovely friendship.
And it made me realize thatsomething like a dance class
could be a great place to meetsomebody.
Rebekah Tinker (16:04):
Mm hmm.
So these are all the differentplaces and, you know, whatever
your hobbies might be, like alsothink about where your local
place is, your local grocerystore, go to the bulk section
more often.
Gillian Boudreau (16:18):
Why do people always talk about the bulk
section?
Rebekah Tinker (16:20):
Because they gather there because everyone's
stealing snacks.
Gillian Boudreau (16:25):
Oh, okay.
Rebekah Tinker (16:26):
And so people are just standing there for
quite a while waiting till otherfolks leave so that then they
don't feel as bad when they takea handful of Because
Gillian Boudreau (16:38):
people do talk about the bulk section.
Here's what I think.
Yeah.
What if we just get more?
And I suppose this is perhaps alittle bit ableist in the
direction of folks who, for one,have an easy time leaving the
house.
So we should definitely notethat.
Right.
Some folks are having anagoraphobia thing or, you know,
some folks are really immunecompromised.
You know, so there are a lot ofreasons why.
(16:58):
All of these suggestions mightnot work for certain folks.
If it's okay for you physicallyand emotionally to spend more
time out in your community, Isort of think to myself, all
right, well, what if I just gotmore engaged in my community,
creating a wider array ofvibrant connections by trying to
talk to strangers and justtrying to do more things that
are interesting to me?
(17:18):
And then there will be like ahigher probability that there
will be a cute single someonejust in a place where I'm
already doing something I'minterested in doing.
Rebekah Tinker (17:26):
Right.
And so there's a sharedinterest already there.
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (17:28):
And that has worked actually on a number of
occasions.
Rebekah Tinker (17:33):
So then how might we, let's say you are at a
swing dancing event.
Yes.
Because you're really intoswing dancing.
Gillian Boudreau (17:41):
Sure.
That sounds like I could be.
Rebekah Tinker (17:43):
And you see someone there who looks
interesting to you or you'reattracted to or whatever you
might do.
What will you do then?
How does one approach theperson or not even approach yet?
How does one begin to initiatethe fact that acknowledging I
see you in this
Gillian Boudreau (18:03):
space?
Wow, that's such an importantone.
Oh, yeah.
the end of the world.
(18:38):
Like I remember, I think eventhis person I ended up dating at
work, I remember they said thatthey felt emboldened because of
my online profile, but theyalso said that they felt
emboldened because once we, andthis is true, we were like at a
work meeting, we were alwayshaving these sharing circles at
this workplace.
But, and this was 100% true, Iwas looking at this person and
they did catch me looking.
And instead of being cool andsmiling, I did immediately
(19:01):
frantically look down and thenblush very red.
Unknown (19:05):
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (19:06):
That sounds like Jillian.
and talk to like lovely queerpeople, That is where I have to
(19:42):
really work with that middleschool part because I certainly
trained myself not to be seenlooking at girls, which I
definitely wanted to look at inmiddle school and was terrified
that I would get caught.
Right.
So, yeah.
So the first step is justreally get comfortable letting
people see that you are lookingat them because that's not I
think I can be worried aboutbeing creepy.
(20:03):
Remind yourself that it'sactually not.
We're looking at people all thetime.
We're allowed to regard people.
Our gaze is not harmful.
And also
Rebekah Tinker (20:14):
listening.
Gillian Boudreau (20:15):
Same
Rebekah Tinker (20:15):
one.
Meaning like, let's say youglance over, you hold eye
contact.
Actually, let me back up.
In the eye contact, I like thatyou said two seconds.
Another fun game can be like,who's going to break it first?
And it can be this like, Idon't know, kind of like...
Like, they're also looking, sowhy do you need to be the one to
look away?
Gillian Boudreau (20:35):
Tink, this is already revolutionary.
Listeners, this is going tochange all of our lives.
Rebekah Tinker (20:39):
If they're also looking and you've got the
connect, why not just push itand see?
Okay.
Because making eye contactshows confidence.
Holding eye contact is justsuch a, like...
It's a flex.
Well, it's saying, I'm notafraid.
Yeah.
And it's saying, like...
Yeah, I see you do, bro.
(21:00):
Like, it almost feels funny.
Like, there's something, if wecan walk into it with this,
like, humor and play of like,okay, here we go.
I would have never
Gillian Boudreau (21:10):
thought of that.
Rebekah Tinker (21:11):
Well, what's so funny is that you were like, and
after two seconds, just smileand look away.
Then you for sure run away.
Gillian Boudreau (21:20):
No, because it's the holding space and
allowing it to unfold.
Because another thing you cando, we always write these lists
and then we mostly just end upchatting.
But further down our list islike, okay, what do you do if
then you're going to talk tosomebody, right?
So in my role as a therapist,I'm actually great at engaging
strangers.
That's not hard.
I can talk to strangers all daylong.
I quickly have good questions.
(21:40):
I have no problem beingfriendly.
And I was actually recently atan event and I did think
somebody was cute there.
And it was somebody who wasdoing a job.
They were in charge of theevent in a certain way.
And so I found that I had noproblem going up to them and
telling them what a great jobthey were doing.
And I did recognize that theyhad a little bit of a sparkly
(22:02):
eye.
I imagined that they werequeer.
I could feel them trying tofigure out if I was queer.
I knew all that was happeningand I knew this was going well,
but I still didn't have afollow-up.
What I should have done was belike, hey, you're doing an
amazing job.
I would never be able to keepall these instructions in my
head that you're givingeverybody.
And they were were like so cuteand they were like, really?
Oh, like they might have evenlike batted an eye and I saw
(22:25):
them do that.
And then I was like, anyway,have a good night.
And then I ran away.
So a lot of this too is justlike, and then you wait, then
you
Rebekah Tinker (22:35):
stand your ground.
Right.
We make the eye contact, wesmile, and then maybe at some
point there's another eyecontact and we walk up to each
other, right?
We're imagining the firstsituations from across the room
and then we do it again and wedo it again and then we approach
the person or they approach usor we happen to find ourselves
then next to one another.
(22:56):
Who knows how it happened?
Who knows?
And the conversation
Gillian Boudreau (23:00):
can start.
But wait, are you actually kindof making it happen?
Are you, Tink, is part of themagic that you are finding a way
to sort of be near them?
Rebekah Tinker (23:07):
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm going to be my authenticself and be like, well, what am
I wanting to get from this eventright now?
That's going to be my firstpriority.
Because that's me moving frommy confidence.
And if what I'm wanting to getfrom that event is to connect
with this human, then yeah, I'mgoing to like purposefully place
myself right next to them.
But if what I'm wanting to getfrom the event, let's say it's a
(23:30):
pickup soccer game, I'm goingto want to be focusing on the
soccer.
And then like on the littlewater breaks, I'm going to place
myself next to them, right?
Or if it's at the swingdancing, I'm going to place
myself next.
I'm going to Ask them to be mypartner, whatever it might be.
Gillian Boudreau (23:49):
Yeah, partner dance is like easy for this.
Partner dance is great forthis.
Yeah, go on.
Rebekah Tinker (23:53):
If you're meeting at an activity kind of
place, whether it's a potterystudio or a swing dancing thing
or a pickup soccer game or a runclub, you comment on their
skill, whether or not they haveit.
Or you comment on their lack ofskill.
You can be playful, right?
Or you comment on their shoes.
If it's at a rung club, you'relike, oh, you got the Adidas.
(24:15):
Interesting.
Okay.
You know?
Gillian Boudreau (24:18):
Yes.
Because you can just findanything.
And that was actually somethingI remembered every spring I go
through like a dating phase.
And this is the first springthat I've been like, I actually
don't have to go on the apps.
I can just try to talk topeople in person this spring.
And so I was out at a musicshow and I was practicing a
little bit.
And one thing I remembered, andmaybe this is like in our 40s
(24:38):
or in my 40s too, like Tinkisn't quite in her 40s yet.
Because like, you know, in your40s, like everyone gets it.
We're all just like trying totalk to people.
Like no one's trying to be thatcool anymore, which is really
helpful.
And so, yes, people might knowthat you're asking them a
question that you don't reallyneed the answer to and that
maybe you wanted to chat.
And that's not the mostshameful thing ever.
And so I remembered that.
(24:59):
So I just like kind of wentaround this room of like nice
strangers.
And I asked one person if theyknew the name of the band.
And then we started talking.
And I asked another person.
I genuinely was a little bitwondering if we'd met before
they looked a little familiar tome, but I 90% knew we hadn't.
The classic, do I know you?
But yeah, but I still was ableto be like, have we met before?
(25:20):
Because that is a Portlandquestion you do have to
sometimes ask yourself.
And like, you know, I was sopleased that all these people
were so nice about it.
Nobody was like, oh, I'm on toyou.
You just wanted to have a nicechat with me.
You know, they were like, oh,it seems like you wanted to have
a nice chat with me.
Let's have a nice chat.
And that also helps me rememberthat we're not in middle school
anymore.
People are not looking tohumiliate you.
Speaker 02 (25:42):
The
Rebekah Tinker (25:43):
other good approach for a first comment is,
Yeah.
And I heard what you
Gillian Boudreau (26:21):
said.
I'm allowed to use my eyes andears.
I don't have to be embarrassedthat I used my eyes and ears in
this public space where
Rebekah Tinker (26:28):
we both are.
Exactly.
Because you still exist even ifthey're not talking to you.
Fucking A, this is great.
And I think a lot of times wefeel as though maybe we should
pretend like we didn't existwhen they weren't talking to us
or looking at us.
And that's not the approachthat we actually want to take.
We still exist it.
Gillian Boudreau (26:47):
Right.
It's weird.
It's like we're trying to treatthem like royalty.
Like, don't look at them orlisten to them unless they've
given you permission.
It's like, what are we doing?
Rebekah Tinker (26:56):
This is nuts.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's another way in whichwe can initiate conversation.
I think that we need to bevulnerable.
And so there is some researchout there that I want folks to
understand.
Ooh, yes.
I don't know who did theresearch.
I don't know any of the factsaround it, but I do know that
there is a fact that someonefigured out was a fact at some
(27:18):
point.
Cool.
After interviews, they did awhole test that folks who
spilled their coffee after aninterview...
were more likable than thefolks who didn't spill their
coffee, which just shows bevulnerable.
Be your real life self.
Don't try and be perfect.
So when you go up and you meetsomeone, you have food in your
(27:39):
teeth.
Cool.
Fucking own it.
Gillian Boudreau (27:41):
Yeah, because that's what that is a sign of
confidence, too.
Rebekah Tinker (27:44):
And let yourself be like naturally clumsy.
Then you're just clumsy
Gillian Boudreau (27:49):
and it's OK.
And it's so attractive to beable to own that.
And just as you're saying,Tink, to not be afraid of that,
to be like, yeah, I'm going toshow up in my wholeness.
wholeness.
Or my wholeness, either way.
And maybe it's both.
But, you know, also what I knowin my, like, wise therapist
self, right, is that whatpermission that gives to the
(28:09):
other person, right?
How relaxing that's going tobe.
You know, if it's a cool personwho's also interested in
showing up in their, like,fullness and wholeness, that's
great to have permission fromthe other person to be like, oh,
like, they're being a sillygoose.
They're imperfect and they'refine with it.
This is going to be fun.
Rebekah Tinker (28:26):
All the worst thing here is basically don't be
afraid to show that you'reinterested and don't be afraid
to take up space and likeactually real life be there.
So those are the twoconclusions of this part.
Now going on your first date.
Yes.
The number one thing if you'refeeling really nervous if you do
have this part that feels morelike worried about taking up
(28:49):
space worried about not beingyour vulnerable self you got to
be doing all the activities thatboost your confidence.
So you focus in the days aheadof time.
And in general, in life rightnow, I think that we all need to
be just being like, what arethe three things I did today
that I know boost my confidence?
And so what makes you feel likeyour most authentic self?
What makes you feelaccomplished?
(29:11):
What makes you feel...
Like you got a little win.
I think far too often folksthink that they need to get
these really big wins and thenthey procrastinate and they
procrastinate and theyprocrastinate just in life.
I'm not talking about dating,just in life.
Yeah.
And then they feel it's harderfor them to feel like their cup
of self-worth, which I thinkwe've talked about before, their
(29:34):
cup of self-worth is all thatfull when they haven't had any
wins recently.
And when we're focusing on justbig wins, it's, yeah, we can't
get a big win every single day.
That's just fact of the matter.
Gillian Boudreau (29:46):
What do you think about this?
If you only acknowledge reallybig wins, it's like you've given
yourself away.
swimming pool-sized cup ofself-worth, and it's never going
to feel full.
Where if you're like, if I canonly feel good about myself if I
get an Emmy and whatever, well,okay, then any other awesome
thing you might do.
It's just too big of a cup.
Rebekah Tinker (30:06):
I think if it is marathon training, if you just
do the race and you don't train,you're just finishing the race,
if that even, and you'reprobably walking.
Yeah, true.
Because you're not in shape todo that.
But If you go and you buildyour mileage really slowly and
you do your speed workouts overtime and you do your strength
training and you do yourplyometrics and you do all these
(30:27):
things and you get the littlewins of each day showing up is a
little win.
Even if the workout didn't goas well as planned, you showed
up and you did it and that's alittle win.
And then come race day, you'regoing to get a whole different
result.
And yeah, sure, that's like thebig pool that's filled up.
But if we're constantlyfocusing on just the big pool
(30:47):
then we're never acknowledgingall the work we put into it.
Gillian Boudreau (30:51):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I've never trained for amarathon, but it gets into like
also like process versusoutcome.
If we can really get into theprocess of things, you know, if
we can be like, oh, man, Iremembered to put the tea back
and I usually forget.
Or if we can be like, oh, myfriend was having a procedure
today and I remembered to checkin with her about it.
(31:11):
Those kinds of things, theyhelp us build our self-esteem, I
think is really what we'retalking about through the small
day to day actions thatacceptance and commitment
therapy might say that are likein line with our values.
Or that can be even small movesin the direction of like who
and how we want to be.
And whereas if we have the lensof what counts as a win zoomed
all the way out right to where,well, it doesn't matter unless
(31:32):
I've like completed themarathon.
Yeah.
Then for one, you'll probablycomplete the marathon sort of
shittily.
And also you've missed yourentire life leading up to that.
Exactly.
So let yourself feel the smallwins.
A CBT or cognitive behavioraltherapy would also call this
like mastery tasks.
So let yourself do that stuff.
that you know you can do andkind of feel satisfying to you
(31:54):
and it makes you feelaccomplished.
Right.
It's like stupid shit.
Like I have an app on my phone.
I think it's called Song PopParty and it's basically just
about identifying songs asquickly as you can based on like
the introduction.
This is not an important skill.
This isn't going to help me atall.
This isn't like a quote unquotegood thing I can do, but it is
something I can do.
And so sometimes I'll like playSong Pop Party for a few
(32:17):
minutes just to like feelaccomplished, just to like boost
up that chemical in my brainthat can lead to a kind of a
somatic feeling of self-esteem
Rebekah Tinker (32:24):
oh my god well it's the gamifying everything
many people have watches nowthat are like you've reached
your step goal you've reachedyour whatever goal which is
awful but also like as runnersit'll tell you like you scored
this when you slept last nightyou
Gillian Boudreau (32:40):
did
Rebekah Tinker (32:40):
like
Gillian Boudreau (32:41):
well you've also always been such a gamifier
like oh i gamify everything notink famously see i think a lot
of people do this but tink doessee like the eta on the gps
absolutely as a time to berather than just a piece of
information.
Rebekah Tinker (32:53):
Yeah, it's very true.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
On long car trips, it's like Istill feel like that's the time
to be even though I know I needto stop for like hours on end to
like take the dog on reallylong walks and like eat food and
things.
Gillian Boudreau (33:09):
You're going all the way across the country.
Rebekah Tinker (33:10):
Yeah, I could probably still make it before
noon.
You mentioned something justnow of doing something sweet for
someone else.
Yeah.
That's also something thatreally boosts confidence.
One of my favorite things is tomake little, like, cards for
people's birthdays or whatever.
Yes.
You draw cute little cartoons.
And I really like doing that.
Gillian Boudreau (33:33):
Listeners, by the way, Tink and her cartoonist
talents actually drew the logofor this podcast.
Anyway, go on, Tink.
Rebekah Tinker (33:39):
I did.
But anyways, like that is a funthing to do to make you feel
confident of like, oh,
Gillian Boudreau (33:49):
I've done something.
I've helped someone feel good.
(34:09):
that altruism actually turnsout to be pretty selfish.
Great.
Benefits everyone.
Be altruistic.
You'll feel better aboutyourself.
Now, once you are on the datethough, right, or once you're
interacting with a cutie in theway that could feel evaluative,
at that point you want to flipit and you want to be actually
focused less on other people andmore on yourself.
So it really helps me on afirst date because I can be a
(34:30):
little bit Rejection sensitive,I guess we're learning to in
this podcast.
I have a lot of defenses aroundit, but I think secretly I
still am.
I really have to remember whenI'm on a first date to really
focus on how I'm feeling ratherthan jumping out of my body and
trying to focus on how I thinkthe other person is feeling.
Rebekah Tinker (34:46):
So how do you do that?
Because I think a lot of peoplestruggle with it.
Gillian Boudreau (34:51):
So some of it's like yoga meditation stuff.
Yep.
Like before I did yoga, Ididn't even know that you could
like feel physically your heart.
So just all of my emotions werealways going right to my gut
because that was the only waythat I literally knew how to
(35:12):
feel emotions.
And then
Rebekah Tinker (35:13):
well, that's where all the nerve endings are.
Yeah,
Gillian Boudreau (35:15):
it is.
But then like in yoga, somebodytaught me that if you actually
just, I guess, put yourattention on your chest and you
just hold it there long enoughthat it will kind of penetrate
and permeate so that you canfeel sort of like inside your
body of your chest.
I don't know if I feel myheart.
I feel sort of an aliveness andit's It's sort of like an ache,
but not in a bad way.
I can just like feel a littlebit of warmth.
(35:35):
And to me, it feels like alittle bit of a water wheel,
like where my heart is.
I think we all kind of maybeknow what our gut feels like
because we know what it's liketo feel anxious in our belly.
And then maybe we can learn tofeel what our heart feels like.
And so I just pay attention toactually three things.
Is my gut clenched or relaxedwith this person?
Do I feel like my chest is likesqueezed in and back or do I
feel like my collarbones arelike out and up?
(35:57):
And I also really pay attentionto whether I'm physically
shrinking, because if I findmyself trying to make myself
shorter during a date, for me,that's usually a tell that
rightly or wrongly, I'm clockingthat the other person needs you
to be smaller, needs you toneeds me to be smaller.
So I just really focus on how'smy heart?
How's my gut?
Am I sitting taller?
Am I slouching?
Rebekah Tinker (36:19):
Those are similar to mine where I feel my
back.
back body.
So what are the parts of mybody that are touching a
surface?
Yep.
So I feel my back against theback of the chair.
I feel my butt on the seat ofthe chair.
I feel my feet on the ground.
We both worked
Gillian Boudreau (36:34):
with a somatic therapist once, I think, who
Rebekah Tinker (36:36):
used to say
Gillian Boudreau (36:37):
that.
Where's my back?
Where's my butt?
I forgot about that.
I find that really helpful too.
Rebekah Tinker (36:40):
And also sitting up tall, because I think
sitting up tall helps you tostay in your confidence as well
and out of your head.
Yeah.
Do we have time to talk aboutwhat potentially you could do
that isn't just Netflix andchill or dinner and drinks?
Oh, I have time.
Sure.
Yeah.
Cool.
So...
Outdoor adventure.
That's my favorite, especiallyif you're feeling a little bit
nervous.
(37:00):
It allows you to be side byside.
So maybe you're going on ahike.
Maybe you rent kayaks and yougo on separate kayaks.
Although if this is a firstdate, guys, don't rent kayaks
and don't go on a big hike.
Take a stroll
Gillian Boudreau (37:14):
in the neighborhood.
Unknown (37:16):
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (37:17):
Stay off of the boats on a first date.
Rebekah Tinker (37:18):
And just keep it short.
I don't think that any of ourfirst dates should be hours
long.
I really think that that'slike, that's also just putting
too much on your plate
Gillian Boudreau (37:28):
too.
It's good to have a hard out,you know, like if you end up
wanting to hang out longer, likeso much the better.
That'll make it even more funthe next time.
Rebekah Tinker (37:36):
But you can have like an agenda for the date.
I think that that can help.
One of my favorite dates that Iwent on in early dating, my
current partner, in fact, was Ihad heard on the news that there
was a beached whale.
And so I was like, hi, do youwant to go find this beached
whale with me?
And so we went on a hunt to goand find the beach whale.
That's wonderful.
(37:57):
Yeah, I really liked that.
I think that was great.
Or another idea that I reallylike is going to a cemetery and
being like, all right, let's seehow many people we can find who
died over 100.
Gillian Boudreau (38:08):
Oh, that's really cool.
Once I went on, I don't thinkit was a first date, but it was
maybe like a second date.
My roommate at the time helpedme figure this out.
I was like a little worriedabout how conversation was going
to flow.
And so she was like, what ifyou took them to the funnest
place ever?
So we went to Coney Island.
That was like a fun date.
Rebekah Tinker (38:27):
Totally going to amusement park.
Gillian Boudreau (38:29):
Amusement park.
Rebekah Tinker (38:30):
Although that, again, kind of traps you with
someone for a while.
But maybe not.
In the first few.
In the first few.
We're talking about like firstfew.
Oh,
Gillian Boudreau (38:40):
no.
Right.
No.
I guess I wouldn't suggest thatfor a first date.
Rebekah Tinker (38:44):
Yeah.
Or meeting someone.
I know...
I did a second date at aprotest once.
So then you just know, youknow, like, okay, our values are
aligned.
Like that's nice.
You're like also weeding.
Gillian Boudreau (38:56):
Yeah.
Like, yes, a protest isperfect.
Like a park cleanup is great.
Also, then you both are feelingan increase in self-esteem
because you're also doingsomething good.
Like, I think that's great.
Yeah.
Those are all really goodthings to do.
Also, you know, I know we allknow this, but probably keeping
the inebriation to a minimum ona first date just so you really
kind of know what you'refeeling.
Rebekah Tinker (39:18):
Yeah.
You can stay in your body.
Yeah.
Unknown (39:20):
Yeah.
Rebekah Tinker (39:20):
So in conclusion, visualize your most
confident self.
How do they live their life?
How do they stand?
How do they feel in their body?
How do they feel mentally,emotionally?
And really visualize that.
I think there's a power tomanifestation.
As witchcrafty as it sounds, Iactually believe in it.
So envision it.
(39:42):
Like what truly what what do Ithink confidence being like
fully embodied in my confidence?
What do I think that looks likeand feels like?
And you just keep envisioningit.
And it's a great thing to doright before you go out on a
date or right before you go toan event where maybe you might
see people or even if it's notanything to do with state, but
(40:03):
you're like feeling sociallyanxious about Or awkward.
Really envision that before youhead out, whatever space you're
going into.
I
Gillian Boudreau (40:12):
think you're describing finding a way to
approach new love like you'venever been hurt.
Rebekah Tinker (40:18):
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (40:18):
Which
Rebekah Tinker (40:19):
is really beautiful.
That's a great way to put it.
Yeah.
Or approach new love like youknow exactly what kind of love
you want.
Oh, even
Gillian Boudreau (40:29):
better.
Well, I hope this was helpfulto all of you.
Selfishly, thank you, Tink,this podcast.
really helped me a lot.
Thank you, Julie.
This was fun.
Thank you all for being herewith us.
We're so glad to be part ofthis community and we'll see you
next time.
See you next time, folks.
If you want to support ourwork, like and subscribe on
(40:51):
Spotify, Apple Podcasts, orwherever you get your podcasts.
Rebekah Tinker (40:55):
We are an unscripted conversation.
Jillian and I are justchit-chatting, offering
information for education,entertainment, only.
Gillian Boudreau (41:03):
And it's not a substitute for therapy.
Rebekah Tinker (41:06):
Consult with your doctor or mental health
clinician.
Gillian Boudreau (41:10):
The hosts and network are not responsible for
any decision or action you makebased on the information we
provide because, again, we'rejust talking.
Rebekah Tinker (41:20):
Therapy takes work and same with podcasts.
We are produced by Amar Ibrahimand our theme song was composed
by our dear friend Adam Brodskyof Woolly Music.
It takes a village.
It takes a village, kids.
Love you guys.
See you next time.
If they're also looking and you've got the
connect, why not just push itand see?
Okay.
Because making eye contactshows confidence.
Holding eye contact is justsuch a like...
It's a flex.
Well, it's saying I'm notafraid.
Gillian Boudreau (00:17):
I'm Gillian Boudreau.
And I'm Rebekah Tinker.
And you're listening toEmotional Physics.
Unknown (00:26):
Emotional Physics
Gillian Boudreau (00:34):
Hi, Gillly.
Hi.
How are you doing?
I'm doing pretty good.
I'm excited for our topic todaybecause I was talking to a good
friend who is an acupuncturistrecently, and she always has
just like really nice naturalworld metaphors for things.
And I was telling her about howlike in the spring, I just feel
(00:55):
like, I don't know, like Peoplewho were kind of taking a
hiatus from dating are kind oflike back into it.
And people just feel likethey're little buzzy bees
hopping around, like seeingwhat's going on.
And she reminded me, she'slike, yeah, well, I'm in my
garden right now.
And if you look at the plantsand the shoots, it's like
everything is exploding rightnow.
And it's not the time of theyear where like you would
(01:18):
necessarily be weeding a lot.
You're just seeing a ton ofshoots and a ton of explosions.
And you're just waiting to seewhat's what before you start
really pruning or just And I waslike, that is true.
That is a great metaphor
Rebekah Tinker (01:32):
for the now, for this topic.
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (01:35):
It is.
And so I was so glad we got thequestion we got because it's
just perfect.
So I'm just thrilled.
Should we play the question?
Let's play the question.
Rebekah Tinker (01:42):
Okay, cool.
Listener question.
Listener question.
We have the question.
We have, we have the question.
Unknown (01:51):
We have, we have.
Listener (01:55):
Hey, love the pod.
Curious if you guys can chatabout meeting new people, how to
get back in the dating fieldand also navigating first dates.
Thanks so much.
I love this person.
Gillian Boudreau (02:10):
One thing I love is that, and I do this too,
sometimes if you need to ask avulnerable question, it helps to
write it down first.
Rebekah Tinker (02:18):
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (02:19):
And I could feel that person had written and
then read their question.
And I just want to say,listeners, we love nothing more
than your questions.
You can send them to us at ourwebsite,
EmotionalPhysicsPodcast.com.
You can write them down.
You can voice note them to us.
You can write them down andthen read them and voice note
that to us.
Any way you do it.
It's our favorite thing.
(02:39):
We love your questions.
Rebekah Tinker (02:40):
And I know that a lot of people maybe feel a
little unsure about sendingtheir voices.
Of course, it's our preferencewe could potentially chat with
Amar our producer about likechanging your voice if you feel
weird oh
Listener (02:56):
we have voice modulation
Rebekah Tinker (02:59):
if you want to send us a voice recorded
question and you don't want yourvoice we'll just write it down
and read it okay So we'retalking about meeting new people
and we're talking about firstdates.
Gillian Boudreau (03:10):
Yes.
And I think this is a reallyimportant topic.
So this is something that Tinkand I both deal with all the
time in our couples therapyrealm.
And then I also think one thingthat I find sort of sweet and
funny about this podcast...
I feel very confident in mycouples therapy seat.
I feel like I'm a very goodcouples therapist.
I know that I help peopleconnect and get what they want
(03:32):
in relationships.
So like speaking as atherapist, I feel totally
confident.
And then from a best friendperspective, this is also a
podcast of two best friends, oneof whom is the just so perfect.
talented in the realm of justfinding love and keeping love
and just choosing well and justbeing successful.
(03:52):
And the other one who has somehangups and has a little bit of
a few stressors in their ownpersonal life.
And so today I'm also reallyexcited just for Tink to share
how the F she does it becauseshe just is so natural with
this.
I
Rebekah Tinker (04:14):
It's one of those things that I really
appreciate that you think I'msuch a natural at.
I really do.
Because when I look at it, I'mlike, yeah, I've had a lot of
really awesome people I've beenin relationship with.
And the majority of all ofthose relationships are also
over.
Well, that doesn't mean they'rea failure, though.
No, it doesn't.
Not in any way at all.
Yeah.
(04:34):
In fact, I don't think any ofour relationships, no matter who
they're with, any of us, Idon't honestly.
And maybe this is jaded as Ihaven't been in a relationship.
Yes, yes.
That I've had a fewrelationships now where I've had
(05:13):
to repeat a lesson.
And so that's maybe where mybrain is like, but have I
actually done a good job?
Because I had to repeat alesson.
Gillian Boudreau (05:21):
But the most important lessons always have to
get repeated.
You know, if we think abouteven just how a person learns to
walk or learns to talk, likethat's via a great deal of
repetition.
It's helpful to feel moreintegrated about it.
Speaker 02 (05:33):
I
Gillian Boudreau (05:34):
don't mean to make this my personal therapy,
but it's half my podcast andI'll do what I want for a
moment.
So I don't know if anylisteners will resonate with
this, but I feel split in a fewways.
So one, as we think aboutmeeting new people, I find it
interesting about myself thatfor honestly such a confident
person, like I am, if anything,an overconfident person, right?
(05:55):
But I still can get a littlebit quick and Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(06:28):
even though I've actually beenthrough a lot of gnarly shit,
and I have emerged feeling thateven those things were
(06:49):
opportunities, but I still feelscared.
Rebekah Tinker (06:51):
And I guess that is maybe where we differ, where
first dates and meeting peopleI actually get excited about.
Gillian Boudreau (06:59):
I do, too.
I do, too.
But it's a mix of fear andexcitement, and maybe you really
don't have a lot of fear aboutit, and maybe that's part of the
magic.
Rebekah Tinker (07:08):
No, yeah, I do walk into the meeting of people
with, like...
A feeling of I have nothing tolose.
That's
Gillian Boudreau (07:15):
the key, people.
Okay.
So that is, I think that is thesecret.
You do.
You do.
And that's how we even becamebest friends.
Because like we clicked veryquickly.
We were laughing hystericallyacross our integrative therapy
sharing circle one day back inthe Vermont time.
And I remember I learned somuch from you.
(07:37):
But like even in like afriendship falling in love way,
I knew we were friendshipfalling in love.
And I was very blunt about it.
Well, yeah, because I knew onmy end that like, oh, I would
love to be best friends withthis person.
But it honestly probably wouldhave taken me still another year
or two to broach that.
And you were just like, I feellike we're best friends.
(07:58):
Do you want to just be bestfriends?
And I was like, yes.
But I was like, wow, I neverwould have had the courage to
say that at this point.
And I'm so glad you did.
And that was another move oflike, you knew you didn't have
anything to lose.
If for some reason, I think forone, you trusted your gut.
You could tell that I did wantto be best friends.
And for two, I'm sure that evenif I didn't want to be best
friends, you knew that wouldn'tkill you.
Rebekah Tinker (08:19):
I knew it wouldn't kill me.
And I also, I think, I don'teven think I considered whether
or not it would kill me is thething.
Is I just didn't even considerthat maybe it could go awry.
I was just like, oh, well, duh.
Yeah, we're best friends.
I didn't even consider whetheryou'd consent to it.
I had just already known.
So I just
Gillian Boudreau (08:40):
announced it.
It wasn't even like a question.
So part of it is the healthymagic of impulsivity.
Rebekah Tinker (08:46):
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (08:46):
Yeah.
I love that.
This is also a veryneurodiversity-affirming
podcast.
I also have impulsivity.
That helps me in my life.
But my impulsivity isn't always– and this is really healthy
impulsivity because I think itcan help us get up and around–
overthinking, right?
Or things that might hold usback.
I do have that in other areasof life, like getting on stage,
(09:07):
right?
Or like volunteering to do athing.
But my impulsivity does notalways give me wings in the
relational realm.
Anyway, so that's us.
But I just wanted, I thought itwould be fun to kind of frame
it that way before we get intoit.
Rebekah Tinker (09:20):
I like it.
That's good.
Okay, so I think we break itdown into a few different topics
here.
So the question is really like,
Gillian Boudreau (09:27):
freaking how do you like meet people?
How do we do this?
How do we And I
Rebekah Tinker (09:33):
think that we should just, for the sake of the
podcast here, X out the idea ofonline dating only because it's
an obvious answer.
I
Gillian Boudreau (09:43):
actually love that.
Okay, selfishly, I love Xingout the idea of online dating.
And there are probably manypeople listening to this, I
would say probably most, forwhom online dating can work
great.
And if so, go online date.
Surprise, surprise.
Rebekah Tinker (09:59):
I'm really good.
I love it.
Gillian Boudreau (10:00):
Yes.
Tink is as magical at onlinedating as she is at any other
form.
Rebekah Tinker (10:06):
Many of my partners I've found online.
On the online dating realm.
It worked
Gillian Boudreau (10:11):
well.
So that's one thing we can do.
And maybe we will even touch onthat a little bit.
But I feel like because onlinedating is so much the default.
Rebekah Tinker (10:19):
Online dating is a separate episode.
And today we're going to focuson meeting people in the wild
and how to navigate first dateinvitations and vibes and
activities, etc.
Gillian Boudreau (10:31):
So maybe even we'll just title this podcast
Dating in the Wild and thenwe'll have another one.
Dating in the Wild.
Yeah.
Okay.
There you are.
I actually have not had thatmuch luck with online dating.
(11:07):
Mostly related to are you in aband?
Yes or no.
And then I kind of like cameback on the dating scene in my
mid 30s when suddenly everybodywas online.
I was like sort of triedOKCupid, but I didn't know what
I was doing.
So it's never felt natural tome.
But one thing that has beentrue is that sometimes I've put
up an online profile and Thiswas especially true in Vermont
(11:29):
because it's so small.
I feel like in Vermont, onlinedating is you're actually just
basically making a billboard andputting it in the town square
in case anyone was wondering ifyou're single.
It's like, now you know.
Well, no, it's one of thoseplaces where you get to the end
Rebekah Tinker (11:45):
each day.
Oh, you get to the end in 15minutes.
Yeah, so quick.
There's five other people.
We're going to put that on theshelf now.
Okay, so where else in the wildcould one meet someone?
Okay, where else?
I have a lot of ideas.
I'm thinking of all differentpeople I've met in the wild who
(12:07):
I've then dated.
Dog park.
You have so much luck at thefrickin' dog park.
I love the dog park.
I have definitely had a lot ofluck.
So dog park, run clubs, or justother random people running.
As well, like finding a pacethat's similar and then starting
a convo.
Pick up sporting events, likepick up soccer or whatever it
(12:30):
might be at a coffee shop.
Two different times, actually,at a coffee shop.
At a coffee shop?
With my barista both times.
Gillian Boudreau (12:38):
Oh, gosh.
No, of course.
I knew about the one barista.
It's also important not to getdiscouraged because for most
mortals, the baristas are notflirting with us.
We think they are.
That's their job, but they'renot.
But with Tink, they literallyare.
Rebekah Tinker (12:53):
Well, no, you just got to be...
Really, my approach is justbeing so assertive.
Gillian Boudreau (12:58):
You're very bold.
You're very sassy and bold.
Did you initially hit on thebarista that I'm thinking about?
Kind of.
Rebekah Tinker (13:04):
I had just gone for a run, and it was the dead
of winter, and...
I showed up at the coffee shopat like 7 a.m.
I was still dark out.
I wanted to change at thecoffee shop before going to
work.
And so I ordered my coffee andthere was really great rap
playing at 7 a.m., which I alsothought was a bold move for 7
(13:28):
a.m.
In Vermont.
In Vermont.
And I was, I was, it feltreally on point to me.
I was just like, this is soright in this moment.
Anyways.
Went to the bathroom to change.
She made my coffee.
We chit-chatted a little bit.
And then I want to say it waslater that we went to this
(13:50):
coffee shop a lot.
All the time.
We lived there.
I also had an office in thatbuilding.
And you did too.
I had an office next door.
Next door, yeah.
It went back down to the coffeeshop.
I think it was later that day.
Maybe it was the next day.
And like for a few days, wejust kept making eyes.
It was sweet.
And then...
Through the Instagram, thecoffee shop had posted, I don't
know, something of hers.
Gillian Boudreau (14:11):
OK,
Rebekah Tinker (14:12):
so I knew then her handle.
And so then I posted a pictureof the coffee she had made me
that was like pristinelybeautiful.
And I said something about likeit could have been interpreted
as just cool.
This person thinks I'm a greatbarista or it could have been
interpreted as, oh, this is amove.
I didn't want to be too forwardbecause I assumed she was
(14:36):
queer.
I wasn't positive she wasqueer.
I assumed she was making eyesat me back, but I wasn't
positive she was making eyes atme back.
So I just like post that andthen she commented and then it
suddenly turned into liketalking all the time and person
like having coffee and all that.
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (14:50):
Cute.
Rebekah Tinker (14:51):
But where else can we meet people in the wild?
A local event?
Comedy venue?
Gillian, you've met people at acomedy venue.
Gillian Boudreau (14:59):
Yeah, it always ends up happening for me
through performance.
Once I was doing stand up aboutmy difficulties dating.
Speaker 02 (15:08):
Mm hmm.
Gillian Boudreau (15:08):
And also a little bit about platonic baby
daddy and baby, even though theywere not part of the
difficulties dating.
These were like two separatelike threads.
But it was actually reallyideal because someone who was a
lovely partner saw that set.
And then he basically was like,sounds good to me.
And he hit on me after theshow.
And then he just like alreadyknew everything.
(15:30):
It was so nice.
Rebekah Tinker (15:31):
Yeah, that was a really good one.
That was a great relationshipfor you.
Gillian Boudreau (15:34):
Yeah, it really was.
Yeah.
Or also through friends.
Oh, you know, what?
Dance class.
I first uncovered my queernessand fell.
Oh, you got obsessed withsomeone.
I know that wasn't great and itdidn't work out.
But I did really fall for a galin a dance class.
That was a I mean, it wasgreat.
It really taught me a lot aboutmyself, even though it didn't
(15:57):
turn into a romanticrelationship, but it turned into
a lovely friendship.
And it made me realize thatsomething like a dance class
could be a great place to meetsomebody.
Rebekah Tinker (16:04):
Mm hmm.
So these are all the differentplaces and, you know, whatever
your hobbies might be, like alsothink about where your local
place is, your local grocerystore, go to the bulk section
more often.
Gillian Boudreau (16:18):
Why do people always talk about the bulk
section?
Rebekah Tinker (16:20):
Because they gather there because everyone's
stealing snacks.
Gillian Boudreau (16:25):
Oh, okay.
Rebekah Tinker (16:26):
And so people are just standing there for
quite a while waiting till otherfolks leave so that then they
don't feel as bad when they takea handful of Because
Gillian Boudreau (16:38):
people do talk about the bulk section.
Here's what I think.
Yeah.
What if we just get more?
And I suppose this is perhaps alittle bit ableist in the
direction of folks who, for one,have an easy time leaving the
house.
So we should definitely notethat.
Right.
Some folks are having anagoraphobia thing or, you know,
some folks are really immunecompromised.
You know, so there are a lot ofreasons why.
(16:58):
All of these suggestions mightnot work for certain folks.
If it's okay for you physicallyand emotionally to spend more
time out in your community, Isort of think to myself, all
right, well, what if I just gotmore engaged in my community,
creating a wider array ofvibrant connections by trying to
talk to strangers and justtrying to do more things that
are interesting to me?
(17:18):
And then there will be like ahigher probability that there
will be a cute single someonejust in a place where I'm
already doing something I'minterested in doing.
Rebekah Tinker (17:26):
Right.
And so there's a sharedinterest already there.
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (17:28):
And that has worked actually on a number of
occasions.
Rebekah Tinker (17:33):
So then how might we, let's say you are at a
swing dancing event.
Yes.
Because you're really intoswing dancing.
Gillian Boudreau (17:41):
Sure.
That sounds like I could be.
Rebekah Tinker (17:43):
And you see someone there who looks
interesting to you or you'reattracted to or whatever you
might do.
What will you do then?
How does one approach theperson or not even approach yet?
How does one begin to initiatethe fact that acknowledging I
see you in this
Gillian Boudreau (18:03):
space?
Wow, that's such an importantone.
Oh, yeah.
the end of the world.
(18:38):
Like I remember, I think eventhis person I ended up dating at
work, I remember they said thatthey felt emboldened because of
my online profile, but theyalso said that they felt
emboldened because once we, andthis is true, we were like at a
work meeting, we were alwayshaving these sharing circles at
this workplace.
But, and this was 100% true, Iwas looking at this person and
they did catch me looking.
And instead of being cool andsmiling, I did immediately
(19:01):
frantically look down and thenblush very red.
Unknown (19:05):
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (19:06):
That sounds like Jillian.
and talk to like lovely queerpeople, That is where I have to
(19:42):
really work with that middleschool part because I certainly
trained myself not to be seenlooking at girls, which I
definitely wanted to look at inmiddle school and was terrified
that I would get caught.
Right.
So, yeah.
So the first step is justreally get comfortable letting
people see that you are lookingat them because that's not I
think I can be worried aboutbeing creepy.
(20:03):
Remind yourself that it'sactually not.
We're looking at people all thetime.
We're allowed to regard people.
Our gaze is not harmful.
And also
Rebekah Tinker (20:14):
listening.
Gillian Boudreau (20:15):
Same
Rebekah Tinker (20:15):
one.
Meaning like, let's say youglance over, you hold eye
contact.
Actually, let me back up.
In the eye contact, I like thatyou said two seconds.
Another fun game can be like,who's going to break it first?
And it can be this like, Idon't know, kind of like...
Like, they're also looking, sowhy do you need to be the one to
look away?
Gillian Boudreau (20:35):
Tink, this is already revolutionary.
Listeners, this is going tochange all of our lives.
Rebekah Tinker (20:39):
If they're also looking and you've got the
connect, why not just push itand see?
Okay.
Because making eye contactshows confidence.
Holding eye contact is justsuch a, like...
It's a flex.
Well, it's saying, I'm notafraid.
Yeah.
And it's saying, like...
Yeah, I see you do, bro.
(21:00):
Like, it almost feels funny.
Like, there's something, if wecan walk into it with this,
like, humor and play of like,okay, here we go.
I would have never
Gillian Boudreau (21:10):
thought of that.
Rebekah Tinker (21:11):
Well, what's so funny is that you were like, and
after two seconds, just smileand look away.
Then you for sure run away.
Gillian Boudreau (21:20):
No, because it's the holding space and
allowing it to unfold.
Because another thing you cando, we always write these lists
and then we mostly just end upchatting.
But further down our list islike, okay, what do you do if
then you're going to talk tosomebody, right?
So in my role as a therapist,I'm actually great at engaging
strangers.
That's not hard.
I can talk to strangers all daylong.
I quickly have good questions.
(21:40):
I have no problem beingfriendly.
And I was actually recently atan event and I did think
somebody was cute there.
And it was somebody who wasdoing a job.
They were in charge of theevent in a certain way.
And so I found that I had noproblem going up to them and
telling them what a great jobthey were doing.
And I did recognize that theyhad a little bit of a sparkly
(22:02):
eye.
I imagined that they werequeer.
I could feel them trying tofigure out if I was queer.
I knew all that was happeningand I knew this was going well,
but I still didn't have afollow-up.
What I should have done was belike, hey, you're doing an
amazing job.
I would never be able to keepall these instructions in my
head that you're givingeverybody.
And they were were like so cuteand they were like, really?
Oh, like they might have evenlike batted an eye and I saw
(22:25):
them do that.
And then I was like, anyway,have a good night.
And then I ran away.
So a lot of this too is justlike, and then you wait, then
you
Rebekah Tinker (22:35):
stand your ground.
Right.
We make the eye contact, wesmile, and then maybe at some
point there's another eyecontact and we walk up to each
other, right?
We're imagining the firstsituations from across the room
and then we do it again and wedo it again and then we approach
the person or they approach usor we happen to find ourselves
then next to one another.
(22:56):
Who knows how it happened?
Who knows?
And the conversation
Gillian Boudreau (23:00):
can start.
But wait, are you actually kindof making it happen?
Are you, Tink, is part of themagic that you are finding a way
to sort of be near them?
Rebekah Tinker (23:07):
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm going to be my authenticself and be like, well, what am
I wanting to get from this eventright now?
That's going to be my firstpriority.
Because that's me moving frommy confidence.
And if what I'm wanting to getfrom that event is to connect
with this human, then yeah, I'mgoing to like purposefully place
myself right next to them.
But if what I'm wanting to getfrom the event, let's say it's a
(23:30):
pickup soccer game, I'm goingto want to be focusing on the
soccer.
And then like on the littlewater breaks, I'm going to place
myself next to them, right?
Or if it's at the swingdancing, I'm going to place
myself next.
I'm going to Ask them to be mypartner, whatever it might be.
Gillian Boudreau (23:49):
Yeah, partner dance is like easy for this.
Partner dance is great forthis.
Yeah, go on.
Rebekah Tinker (23:53):
If you're meeting at an activity kind of
place, whether it's a potterystudio or a swing dancing thing
or a pickup soccer game or a runclub, you comment on their
skill, whether or not they haveit.
Or you comment on their lack ofskill.
You can be playful, right?
Or you comment on their shoes.
If it's at a rung club, you'relike, oh, you got the Adidas.
(24:15):
Interesting.
Okay.
You know?
Gillian Boudreau (24:18):
Yes.
Because you can just findanything.
And that was actually somethingI remembered every spring I go
through like a dating phase.
And this is the first springthat I've been like, I actually
don't have to go on the apps.
I can just try to talk topeople in person this spring.
And so I was out at a musicshow and I was practicing a
little bit.
And one thing I remembered, andmaybe this is like in our 40s
(24:38):
or in my 40s too, like Tinkisn't quite in her 40s yet.
Because like, you know, in your40s, like everyone gets it.
We're all just like trying totalk to people.
Like no one's trying to be thatcool anymore, which is really
helpful.
And so, yes, people might knowthat you're asking them a
question that you don't reallyneed the answer to and that
maybe you wanted to chat.
And that's not the mostshameful thing ever.
And so I remembered that.
(24:59):
So I just like kind of wentaround this room of like nice
strangers.
And I asked one person if theyknew the name of the band.
And then we started talking.
And I asked another person.
I genuinely was a little bitwondering if we'd met before
they looked a little familiar tome, but I 90% knew we hadn't.
The classic, do I know you?
But yeah, but I still was ableto be like, have we met before?
(25:20):
Because that is a Portlandquestion you do have to
sometimes ask yourself.
And like, you know, I was sopleased that all these people
were so nice about it.
Nobody was like, oh, I'm on toyou.
You just wanted to have a nicechat with me.
You know, they were like, oh,it seems like you wanted to have
a nice chat with me.
Let's have a nice chat.
And that also helps me rememberthat we're not in middle school
anymore.
People are not looking tohumiliate you.
Speaker 02 (25:42):
The
Rebekah Tinker (25:43):
other good approach for a first comment is,
Yeah.
And I heard what you
Gillian Boudreau (26:21):
said.
I'm allowed to use my eyes andears.
I don't have to be embarrassedthat I used my eyes and ears in
this public space where
Rebekah Tinker (26:28):
we both are.
Exactly.
Because you still exist even ifthey're not talking to you.
Fucking A, this is great.
And I think a lot of times wefeel as though maybe we should
pretend like we didn't existwhen they weren't talking to us
or looking at us.
And that's not the approachthat we actually want to take.
We still exist it.
Gillian Boudreau (26:47):
Right.
It's weird.
It's like we're trying to treatthem like royalty.
Like, don't look at them orlisten to them unless they've
given you permission.
It's like, what are we doing?
Rebekah Tinker (26:56):
This is nuts.
Yeah.
Okay.
So that's another way in whichwe can initiate conversation.
I think that we need to bevulnerable.
And so there is some researchout there that I want folks to
understand.
Ooh, yes.
I don't know who did theresearch.
I don't know any of the factsaround it, but I do know that
there is a fact that someonefigured out was a fact at some
(27:18):
point.
Cool.
After interviews, they did awhole test that folks who
spilled their coffee after aninterview...
were more likable than thefolks who didn't spill their
coffee, which just shows bevulnerable.
Be your real life self.
Don't try and be perfect.
So when you go up and you meetsomeone, you have food in your
(27:39):
teeth.
Cool.
Fucking own it.
Gillian Boudreau (27:41):
Yeah, because that's what that is a sign of
confidence, too.
Rebekah Tinker (27:44):
And let yourself be like naturally clumsy.
Then you're just clumsy
Gillian Boudreau (27:49):
and it's OK.
And it's so attractive to beable to own that.
And just as you're saying,Tink, to not be afraid of that,
to be like, yeah, I'm going toshow up in my wholeness.
wholeness.
Or my wholeness, either way.
And maybe it's both.
But, you know, also what I knowin my, like, wise therapist
self, right, is that whatpermission that gives to the
(28:09):
other person, right?
How relaxing that's going tobe.
You know, if it's a cool personwho's also interested in
showing up in their, like,fullness and wholeness, that's
great to have permission fromthe other person to be like, oh,
like, they're being a sillygoose.
They're imperfect and they'refine with it.
This is going to be fun.
Rebekah Tinker (28:26):
All the worst thing here is basically don't be
afraid to show that you'reinterested and don't be afraid
to take up space and likeactually real life be there.
So those are the twoconclusions of this part.
Now going on your first date.
Yes.
The number one thing if you'refeeling really nervous if you do
have this part that feels morelike worried about taking up
(28:49):
space worried about not beingyour vulnerable self you got to
be doing all the activities thatboost your confidence.
So you focus in the days aheadof time.
And in general, in life rightnow, I think that we all need to
be just being like, what arethe three things I did today
that I know boost my confidence?
And so what makes you feel likeyour most authentic self?
What makes you feelaccomplished?
(29:11):
What makes you feel...
Like you got a little win.
I think far too often folksthink that they need to get
these really big wins and thenthey procrastinate and they
procrastinate and theyprocrastinate just in life.
I'm not talking about dating,just in life.
Yeah.
And then they feel it's harderfor them to feel like their cup
of self-worth, which I thinkwe've talked about before, their
(29:34):
cup of self-worth is all thatfull when they haven't had any
wins recently.
And when we're focusing on justbig wins, it's, yeah, we can't
get a big win every single day.
That's just fact of the matter.
Gillian Boudreau (29:46):
What do you think about this?
If you only acknowledge reallybig wins, it's like you've given
yourself away.
swimming pool-sized cup ofself-worth, and it's never going
to feel full.
Where if you're like, if I canonly feel good about myself if I
get an Emmy and whatever, well,okay, then any other awesome
thing you might do.
It's just too big of a cup.
Rebekah Tinker (30:06):
I think if it is marathon training, if you just
do the race and you don't train,you're just finishing the race,
if that even, and you'reprobably walking.
Yeah, true.
Because you're not in shape todo that.
But If you go and you buildyour mileage really slowly and
you do your speed workouts overtime and you do your strength
training and you do yourplyometrics and you do all these
(30:27):
things and you get the littlewins of each day showing up is a
little win.
Even if the workout didn't goas well as planned, you showed
up and you did it and that's alittle win.
And then come race day, you'regoing to get a whole different
result.
And yeah, sure, that's like thebig pool that's filled up.
But if we're constantlyfocusing on just the big pool
(30:47):
then we're never acknowledgingall the work we put into it.
Gillian Boudreau (30:51):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I've never trained for amarathon, but it gets into like
also like process versusoutcome.
If we can really get into theprocess of things, you know, if
we can be like, oh, man, Iremembered to put the tea back
and I usually forget.
Or if we can be like, oh, myfriend was having a procedure
today and I remembered to checkin with her about it.
(31:11):
Those kinds of things, theyhelp us build our self-esteem, I
think is really what we'retalking about through the small
day to day actions thatacceptance and commitment
therapy might say that are likein line with our values.
Or that can be even small movesin the direction of like who
and how we want to be.
And whereas if we have the lensof what counts as a win zoomed
all the way out right to where,well, it doesn't matter unless
(31:32):
I've like completed themarathon.
Yeah.
Then for one, you'll probablycomplete the marathon sort of
shittily.
And also you've missed yourentire life leading up to that.
Exactly.
So let yourself feel the smallwins.
A CBT or cognitive behavioraltherapy would also call this
like mastery tasks.
So let yourself do that stuff.
that you know you can do andkind of feel satisfying to you
(31:54):
and it makes you feelaccomplished.
Right.
It's like stupid shit.
Like I have an app on my phone.
I think it's called Song PopParty and it's basically just
about identifying songs asquickly as you can based on like
the introduction.
This is not an important skill.
This isn't going to help me atall.
This isn't like a quote unquotegood thing I can do, but it is
something I can do.
And so sometimes I'll like playSong Pop Party for a few
(32:17):
minutes just to like feelaccomplished, just to like boost
up that chemical in my brainthat can lead to a kind of a
somatic feeling of self-esteem
Rebekah Tinker (32:24):
oh my god well it's the gamifying everything
many people have watches nowthat are like you've reached
your step goal you've reachedyour whatever goal which is
awful but also like as runnersit'll tell you like you scored
this when you slept last nightyou
Gillian Boudreau (32:40):
did
Rebekah Tinker (32:40):
like
Gillian Boudreau (32:41):
well you've also always been such a gamifier
like oh i gamify everything notink famously see i think a lot
of people do this but tink doessee like the eta on the gps
absolutely as a time to berather than just a piece of
information.
Rebekah Tinker (32:53):
Yeah, it's very true.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
On long car trips, it's like Istill feel like that's the time
to be even though I know I needto stop for like hours on end to
like take the dog on reallylong walks and like eat food and
things.
Gillian Boudreau (33:09):
You're going all the way across the country.
Rebekah Tinker (33:10):
Yeah, I could probably still make it before
noon.
You mentioned something justnow of doing something sweet for
someone else.
Yeah.
That's also something thatreally boosts confidence.
One of my favorite things is tomake little, like, cards for
people's birthdays or whatever.
Yes.
You draw cute little cartoons.
And I really like doing that.
Gillian Boudreau (33:33):
Listeners, by the way, Tink and her cartoonist
talents actually drew the logofor this podcast.
Anyway, go on, Tink.
Rebekah Tinker (33:39):
I did.
But anyways, like that is a funthing to do to make you feel
confident of like, oh,
Gillian Boudreau (33:49):
I've done something.
I've helped someone feel good.
(34:09):
that altruism actually turnsout to be pretty selfish.
Great.
Benefits everyone.
Be altruistic.
You'll feel better aboutyourself.
Now, once you are on the datethough, right, or once you're
interacting with a cutie in theway that could feel evaluative,
at that point you want to flipit and you want to be actually
focused less on other people andmore on yourself.
So it really helps me on afirst date because I can be a
(34:30):
little bit Rejection sensitive,I guess we're learning to in
this podcast.
I have a lot of defenses aroundit, but I think secretly I
still am.
I really have to remember whenI'm on a first date to really
focus on how I'm feeling ratherthan jumping out of my body and
trying to focus on how I thinkthe other person is feeling.
Rebekah Tinker (34:46):
So how do you do that?
Because I think a lot of peoplestruggle with it.
Gillian Boudreau (34:51):
So some of it's like yoga meditation stuff.
Yep.
Like before I did yoga, Ididn't even know that you could
like feel physically your heart.
So just all of my emotions werealways going right to my gut
because that was the only waythat I literally knew how to
(35:12):
feel emotions.
And then
Rebekah Tinker (35:13):
well, that's where all the nerve endings are.
Yeah,
Gillian Boudreau (35:15):
it is.
But then like in yoga, somebodytaught me that if you actually
just, I guess, put yourattention on your chest and you
just hold it there long enoughthat it will kind of penetrate
and permeate so that you canfeel sort of like inside your
body of your chest.
I don't know if I feel myheart.
I feel sort of an aliveness andit's It's sort of like an ache,
but not in a bad way.
I can just like feel a littlebit of warmth.
(35:35):
And to me, it feels like alittle bit of a water wheel,
like where my heart is.
I think we all kind of maybeknow what our gut feels like
because we know what it's liketo feel anxious in our belly.
And then maybe we can learn tofeel what our heart feels like.
And so I just pay attention toactually three things.
Is my gut clenched or relaxedwith this person?
Do I feel like my chest is likesqueezed in and back or do I
feel like my collarbones arelike out and up?
(35:57):
And I also really pay attentionto whether I'm physically
shrinking, because if I findmyself trying to make myself
shorter during a date, for me,that's usually a tell that
rightly or wrongly, I'm clockingthat the other person needs you
to be smaller, needs you toneeds me to be smaller.
So I just really focus on how'smy heart?
How's my gut?
Am I sitting taller?
Am I slouching?
Rebekah Tinker (36:19):
Those are similar to mine where I feel my
back.
back body.
So what are the parts of mybody that are touching a
surface?
Yep.
So I feel my back against theback of the chair.
I feel my butt on the seat ofthe chair.
I feel my feet on the ground.
We both worked
Gillian Boudreau (36:34):
with a somatic therapist once, I think, who
Rebekah Tinker (36:36):
used to say
Gillian Boudreau (36:37):
that.
Where's my back?
Where's my butt?
I forgot about that.
I find that really helpful too.
Rebekah Tinker (36:40):
And also sitting up tall, because I think
sitting up tall helps you tostay in your confidence as well
and out of your head.
Yeah.
Do we have time to talk aboutwhat potentially you could do
that isn't just Netflix andchill or dinner and drinks?
Oh, I have time.
Sure.
Yeah.
Cool.
So...
Outdoor adventure.
That's my favorite, especiallyif you're feeling a little bit
nervous.
(37:00):
It allows you to be side byside.
So maybe you're going on ahike.
Maybe you rent kayaks and yougo on separate kayaks.
Although if this is a firstdate, guys, don't rent kayaks
and don't go on a big hike.
Take a stroll
Gillian Boudreau (37:14):
in the neighborhood.
Unknown (37:16):
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (37:17):
Stay off of the boats on a first date.
Rebekah Tinker (37:18):
And just keep it short.
I don't think that any of ourfirst dates should be hours
long.
I really think that that'slike, that's also just putting
too much on your plate
Gillian Boudreau (37:28):
too.
It's good to have a hard out,you know, like if you end up
wanting to hang out longer, likeso much the better.
That'll make it even more funthe next time.
Rebekah Tinker (37:36):
But you can have like an agenda for the date.
I think that that can help.
One of my favorite dates that Iwent on in early dating, my
current partner, in fact, was Ihad heard on the news that there
was a beached whale.
And so I was like, hi, do youwant to go find this beached
whale with me?
And so we went on a hunt to goand find the beach whale.
That's wonderful.
(37:57):
Yeah, I really liked that.
I think that was great.
Or another idea that I reallylike is going to a cemetery and
being like, all right, let's seehow many people we can find who
died over 100.
Gillian Boudreau (38:08):
Oh, that's really cool.
Once I went on, I don't thinkit was a first date, but it was
maybe like a second date.
My roommate at the time helpedme figure this out.
I was like a little worriedabout how conversation was going
to flow.
And so she was like, what ifyou took them to the funnest
place ever?
So we went to Coney Island.
That was like a fun date.
Rebekah Tinker (38:27):
Totally going to amusement park.
Gillian Boudreau (38:29):
Amusement park.
Rebekah Tinker (38:30):
Although that, again, kind of traps you with
someone for a while.
But maybe not.
In the first few.
In the first few.
We're talking about like firstfew.
Oh,
Gillian Boudreau (38:40):
no.
Right.
No.
I guess I wouldn't suggest thatfor a first date.
Rebekah Tinker (38:44):
Yeah.
Or meeting someone.
I know...
I did a second date at aprotest once.
So then you just know, youknow, like, okay, our values are
aligned.
Like that's nice.
You're like also weeding.
Gillian Boudreau (38:56):
Yeah.
Like, yes, a protest isperfect.
Like a park cleanup is great.
Also, then you both are feelingan increase in self-esteem
because you're also doingsomething good.
Like, I think that's great.
Yeah.
Those are all really goodthings to do.
Also, you know, I know we allknow this, but probably keeping
the inebriation to a minimum ona first date just so you really
kind of know what you'refeeling.
Rebekah Tinker (39:18):
Yeah.
You can stay in your body.
Yeah.
Unknown (39:20):
Yeah.
Rebekah Tinker (39:20):
So in conclusion, visualize your most
confident self.
How do they live their life?
How do they stand?
How do they feel in their body?
How do they feel mentally,emotionally?
And really visualize that.
I think there's a power tomanifestation.
As witchcrafty as it sounds, Iactually believe in it.
So envision it.
(39:42):
Like what truly what what do Ithink confidence being like
fully embodied in my confidence?
What do I think that looks likeand feels like?
And you just keep envisioningit.
And it's a great thing to doright before you go out on a
date or right before you go toan event where maybe you might
see people or even if it's notanything to do with state, but
(40:03):
you're like feeling sociallyanxious about Or awkward.
Really envision that before youhead out, whatever space you're
going into.
I
Gillian Boudreau (40:12):
think you're describing finding a way to
approach new love like you'venever been hurt.
Rebekah Tinker (40:18):
Yeah.
Gillian Boudreau (40:18):
Which
Rebekah Tinker (40:19):
is really beautiful.
That's a great way to put it.
Yeah.
Or approach new love like youknow exactly what kind of love
you want.
Oh, even
Gillian Boudreau (40:29):
better.
Well, I hope this was helpfulto all of you.
Selfishly, thank you, Tink,this podcast.
really helped me a lot.
Thank you, Julie.
This was fun.
Thank you all for being herewith us.
We're so glad to be part ofthis community and we'll see you
next time.
See you next time, folks.
If you want to support ourwork, like and subscribe on
(40:51):
Spotify, Apple Podcasts, orwherever you get your podcasts.
Rebekah Tinker (40:55):
We are an unscripted conversation.
Jillian and I are justchit-chatting, offering
information for education,entertainment, only.
Gillian Boudreau (41:03):
And it's not a substitute for therapy.
Rebekah Tinker (41:06):
Consult with your doctor or mental health
clinician.
Gillian Boudreau (41:10):
The hosts and network are not responsible for
any decision or action you makebased on the information we
provide because, again, we'rejust talking.
Rebekah Tinker (41:20):
Therapy takes work and same with podcasts.
We are produced by Amar Ibrahimand our theme song was composed
by our dear friend Adam Brodskyof Woolly Music.
It takes a village.
It takes a village, kids.
Love you guys.
See you next time.
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