No Plan B: The Hidden Price of Greatness

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Everyone says "burn the boats, no plan B." But what they don’t tell you is the cost. From Jordan’s obsession to Steve Jobs’ broken family, the truth is that extraordinary success comes with extraordinary sacrifice. Rich & Justin break down the myths of monk mode, idol worship, and blueprint-chasing — and share the hard-earned lessons from their own lives. 

Before you go all in, ask yourself: are you ready to pay the price?”

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
You have to choose action first.
Sitting around reading,researching, chat GPT-ing, LLM
therapy-ing, all thisinformation you have is fine,
but it's the equivalent if youjust read and watched every book
and video on how to swim and youdon't know how to swim.
Nothing in the world is going toprepare you for getting out to

(00:24):
the ocean than jumping in thewater.
Rich, being extraordinary comesat a price.
You and I definitely know that.
But what I'm seeing more onlineand the further we dive into our
community is this obsession withpeople wanting to be like other

(00:45):
people who are consideredsickos, goaded.
But I think the more normal termwould be just human beings that
are one-on-one in theirrespective field.
And what we talked about off-air, which we thought would make
a great episode, was this pricethat you have to pay for being
extraordinary.

(01:06):
And this idea of a lot of peoplein our community, a lot of young
men going the route of, fuck it,no plan B.
I'm going all in.
Now, we talked about this.
We're not against that.
But Eri Rose...
comes with some thorns.
And I think that's something wewanted to discuss today.

(01:29):
I don't know if you haveanything to share on how the
subject came up.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32):
Yeah, I was casually watching a video on Elon Musk
and they were asking him, whoare the people you admire?
And he mentioned Larry Page, thefolks who founded Google.
And then he mentioned JeffBezos.
And he said Jeff Bezos wasinteresting because he also has

(01:54):
a space And, you know, he wassaying how he admires really
smart people.
But, you know, I think when youthink about the Elon Musk of the
world, the Jeff Bezos of theworld, the Michael Jordans, the
Kobe Bryans, all these peopleare great because of the

(02:14):
sacrifices they've made tobecome great.
You know, and I feel like mostpeople, when they look at them,
they just look at them as abyproduct of their success.
And it's sort of like the endresult of who they were and who
they became.
But Michael Jordan famously gotcut from, I think it was like a
varsity college team.

(02:35):
Kobe had like airball moments inthe 90s and he wasn't like, you
know, the nicest.
Elon Musk almost went bankruptin like 2008 and, you know,
rebounded and went on to foundmany incredible companies.
So their path to success hasn'talways been easy.
It's a Yeah, I think

SPEAKER_01 (03:00):
the phrasing is, no plan B, burn the boats, right?
And what you're saying is, Whenyou do enough research beyond
the surface or you get to learnsomebody as a celebrity after
they've made theiraccomplishments, you have no
idea what they sacrificed onmany levels to even get to the

(03:24):
point where you know their name.
I think the photo of Jeff Bezosin that little office with all
the junk around him, he doesn'tlook healthy.
He's definitely bald.
And I think it was like in hisearly 30s.
He looked run down.
That is the level of sacrificefrom that point all the way till

(03:46):
he got to his 40s when heactually became relevant enough
to be the guy who createdAmazon.com, the store that you
can buy anything from.
To be Bezos now, you would haveto sacrifice everything that
Bezos sacrificed then.
And that was just the gray areathat we wanted to unpack today.

(04:07):
It's like, From Kanye to SerenaWilliams to Elon Musk to Joe
Rogan to one of your favorites,the physical strength training
guru god of all of them.

SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
Oh, like David Goggins?
Yeah, David

SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
Goggins.
The level of sacrifice, I thinkthat's his whole campaign,
right?
It's like you have no idea whatI'm sacrificing in order to even
conquer the demons that I'mrunning from, let alone inspire
you.
That comes at a cost.
No plan B comes at a cost.

SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
Yeah.
Yes.
Sacrifice and the disciplinethat it takes to, you know, like
you said, burn the boats, burnthe ships.
There's no life vests.
No, not giving yourself a wayout, no escape path and say, I'm
following this very linear onepath goal to achieve, you know,

(04:59):
whatever it is that I want toachieve.
And I will say on the pursuit ofgreatness, bro, that there is no
linear path.
Like these folks are stillfiguring it out as they go about
accomplishing their mission.
It's crazy.
It's easy to look at someonewho's been successful and see

(05:22):
all their errors and all theirmistakes and be like, oh yeah, I
wonder why he didn't do...
Hindsight is 20-20.
When we look at the MJdocumentary, The Last Dance, you
can see every sort of differentera of Michael Jordan and how he
had to deal with the press andthe scrutiny about the gambling

(05:42):
in his life and the hurdles ofwhat it was to be a celebrity
and be Michael Jordan at thattime.
And it wasn't easy for him.

SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
I think the question we're saying is like, are you
sure you want what you're sayingyou want?
And Rich and I, as two men inour late 30s, I'm closer to 40
than you are.
I think there is a balance thatcomes with it, with that
obsession and that delusion.
that you think you have towardsyour goal.

(06:12):
And I love that you brought upthe Jordan documentary because I
don't know if anyone has seenthis, but I stumbled upon his
Hall of Fame speech.
Do you know about this?
No, I don't.
In his Hall of Fame speech, it'slike a...
I mean, obviously, MichaelJordan is the greatest
basketball player of all time.
I don't give a fuck what youropinion is.
If you want to write it in thecomments, feel free.

(06:33):
Kobe fans, Jordan fans, LeBronfans, you can have that debate
with one of your mothers becauseyou're not having that debate
with me.
All I know is one of the mostlegendary retirement speeches
was for the greatest basketballplayer of all time.
And if you've ever seen a Hallof Fame speech, it means you're

(06:55):
being inducted to the Hall ofFame, which is essentially what
this whole episode is about.
You're being goaded.
You are one of one.
You're part of a select group ofpeople that are professionals.
And in his Hall of Fame speech,this dude proceeded for 17
minutes to flame every personthat doubted him from the age of

(07:15):
16 all the way to his last dayin the NBA.
Rich, it was one of the most,for me, it was motivational
because I like being in thatmode.
I get excited when I see peoplethat are competitive.
But it just showed how fucked uphis brain is.
And he took this moment whereall his peers were cheering for
him and they were excited aboutthe greatest player of all time

(07:39):
being inducted to the Hall ofFame into being a staff member.
statue of foreverness.
And this dude walked down everyperson that doubted him all the
way from his middle school coachto the dude that got to start
over him in high school that hehad resentment for the rest of
his life.
He had one of his greatestrivals sit next to him during

(08:01):
the speech just so he could shiton him.
I don't think you understand thelevel of psycho that is really
in the brains of a lot of thesepeople that are extraordinary
and one of one.
And I could speak to myprofession in the music
business.
I don't like talking about theartists I work with because I
don't think it's fair to them onmy personal platform.

(08:22):
But you can do one Google andfigure out who I've either been
around or who I've worked with.
These guys' level of dedicationand competition for this finite
game of being number one on theBillboard charts is a very
fucked up game.
And it consumes these guys andthese girls in a way that most
people won't be able tounderstand they are obsessed

(08:46):
with being the best in theirfield and unfortunately the way
a lot of these systems are setup is that there could only be
one Amazon in that categorythere could only be one Facebook
there could only be one Ubernotice that I named all those
companies and you would have toGoogle who their competition is

(09:07):
it's Lyft by the way it wasMySpace and I don't know who the
fuck competes with AmazonAlibaba, like, who's second of
Amazon?

SPEAKER_00 (09:17):
Probably Walmart.

SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
Walmart.
Winner takes all.
Games require you to be insanelydedicated.
And that is a double-edgedsword.
And that's something, Rich, Iknow you wanted to talk about.
That comes at a cost, includingguys like Elon Musk, who I know
you follow his career verythoroughly.

SPEAKER_00 (09:39):
Yeah, I know Elon Musk famously, he has a deranged
daughter who wants nothing to dowith him.
And a couple of his ex-wiveshave spoken illy about him.
And that's part of the sacrificeyou make when you're reaching
greatness and building five, sixdifferent businesses.

(09:59):
You're unfortunately not goingto have time for your family.
And that has gone on with otherathletes or famous people.
I know famously, Steve Jobs hada terrible relationship with his
daughter and it's dockedTerrible.

SPEAKER_01 (10:18):
Terrible.

(10:42):
opportunity of technology whenit arose in all decades that he
was alive he always was ahead ofthe curve that's a crazy
combination of an executive andsomeone that's just a true
visionary but you know what kindof piece of shit you got to be
to have a seven-year-olddaughter deny that she exists
when you know she exists you'rea multi-millionaire this is the

(11:05):
best part he named his computerafter the apple one or the mac
one he named the second computerthe lisa His daughter, his
biological daughter's name isLisa.
He denied her until she wasabout eight, but he proceeded to
name his computer after hisfirst daughter.
And then when he got confrontedon it, he was like, no, Lisa

(11:26):
stands for L-I-S.
And he made up an acronym.
The dude is burnt out.
Think about that Jordan story.
Think about that Steve Jobsstory.
I can get into Kanye.
These guys are not wired thesame way most people are wired.
for the sacrifice that comeswith this level of excellence.

SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
Yeah, all while we record this on a MacBook Pro.

SPEAKER_01 (11:51):
I'm saying, thank you, Steve Jobs, but I'm sure
his daughter, well, I'm sureshe's happy now, but somebody
should check in on Lisa.
See how she's doing.

SPEAKER_00 (12:01):
Yeah, but that's the dynamic, right?
When you look at all thesepeople, MJ, Kobe, Elon Musk,
Jeff Bezos, or anybody who youadmire or are consuming
self-help content content fromis like, what are you admiring
these people for?
Right.
I think you should be veryselective about what it is about
them that you like, because theother side of the spectrum is

(12:23):
that, by the way, there's a lotof things about these
individuals that are bad andthat you shouldn't follow.
But naturally, they've made alot of sacrifices to get to
where they got to.
But it's important to beselective about what you admire
about that person.
Don't just follow an Elon Muskand say, I want to be like Elon
and embody everything thatembodies Elon Musk because then

(12:47):
you're going to be sleeping twohours a day, right?
You're probably not going to beshowering.
You're going to be consumedbuilding this one product.
You're going to isolate yourselffrom the world.
Your relationships are going tobe strained because of it.
And it's just not a good path togo down.

SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
Yeah, Rich, I think one of the biggest takeaways
from this conversation for me isthat, and I don't mean to
disagree with the point thatwe're making for the entire
show, but it's, Trust me, if...
Rich's family watched orlistened to this episode, or my
family watched and listened tothis episode, they'd probably

(13:23):
laugh because they'd say, theseguys are hypocrites.
Because I barely see them aroundat family events.
Most of their family doesn'tknow anything about them because
they're not participating inevery one of our cousins'
birthday parties.
They've left the family andmoved to different locations and
are not around us.
I don't have a lot of friendsanymore.

(13:44):
Same for me.
I used to have a lot of friendswhen I was younger.
So we're speaking from theperspective of people who have
sacrificed a lot to gain thelittle bit of success that we
were able to gain.
But that is like the differencebetween not signing up for a
marathon and being in amarathon.
Being in a marathon is just tobe a part of the selected group

(14:06):
of people that are great.
But there is another level tobeing the person who wins the
marathon.
that is sicko mode that is extraextraordinary levels of
dedication and sacrifice youhave to put into your craft to
get to that level and I believethe point you just made is very

(14:30):
relevant be careful who youridols are because you're only
seeing them after they hold thetrophy up and the confettities
falling on them and they'repopping champagne but the price
that I noticed in my late 30s isyou can win the marathon of life

(14:51):
all by yourself with zerodistractions in monk mode or on
your stoicism journey where it'sonly you and the prize, you and
your goal.
But what happens a lot, man, iswhen you finally obtain that
goal, you get the Ferrari, youget the 8% body fat, 12 pounds

(15:11):
of muscle, you're yoked, you'rethe strongest guy in your high
high school, a lot of the timesthose guys are drinking
champagne alone at the finishline.
Be careful with who you idolizebecause you don't know what
their lives are like beyond thatmoment of them holding up the
trophy or drinking thechampagne.
A lot of motherfuckers that arethat successful are really

(15:33):
lonely or they're broken.
They're tied to their identityso crazy that they can't be
anything else other than theperson they project to the
world.
So again, it comes at a cost.
These roses have thorns.
Just be aware that they havethorns.

SPEAKER_00 (15:49):
Yeah.
And to be clear, we're notsaying to not pursue your
purpose, not pursue greatness.
I think that's what we're tryingto do with this platform, right?
And we encourage everyone totake increment steps to
accomplish a goal or be on yourjourney or reach whatever level
of greatness you define asgreatness, right?
Like whatever greatness means toyou.

(16:10):
That's good,

SPEAKER_01 (16:11):
yeah.
Like an internal scorecard.
I love that.
You're saying, what does thatmean to you, not to the outside
world?

SPEAKER_00 (16:18):
Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 (16:19):
So one thing I did want to tell you, I proposed
this question earlier and itkind of made you glitch was what
if Jensen at his age came up toyou and said dad I'm going to go
full monk mode I'm going tofocus on getting stronger and
getting smarter so I can getmore friends and get a

(16:39):
girlfriend by my senior year ofhigh school but from this point
forward I'm going to be in monkmode what would be your response
to that

SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
first of all I think you said it best earlier you
said not even monks are rate inmonk mode.
I hate how the internet tries tolabel things that were already
in practice.
That's just a bullshit term forrelentlessness or discipline,
right?
If you told me, dad, I'm goingto be disciplined.
I'm going to work out.

(17:07):
I'm going to have this routine.
I'm going to have this regimen.
And these are the goals that I'mtrying to hit in this amount of
time or timeframe, then I'd belike, sure, go after it.
I'll support you in whatever youwant.
But this idea of like, I'm goingto go in monk mode.
I'm I'm going to put myself in aquiet room for eight hours a day
and only study and not talk toanyone and solely focus on my

(17:31):
goal.
That's bullshit.
You know what I mean?
You know where I've seen this alot?
In Silicon Valley.
There's a lot of kids that say,oh, I'm going to move to Silicon
Valley.
I'm going to lock in and build astartup and not talk to anyone.
Just me and my coder,co-founder, just us two building
in stuff.
They call it building in stuff.

(17:51):
And what happens is when it'stime to go to market and you
need to sell your product, youhave no idea how to communicate
the value you bring or whatyou've built because you've put
yourself in isolation for solong while you were so-called
building this product in stealthmode.

(18:21):
or that social skill muscle thatyou need to actually go out and
sell something.
It's kind of counterintuitive.
Isn't the same thing to

SPEAKER_01 (18:29):
be said about the second half of Jensen's alleged
monk mode journey of gettingreally strong and focusing on
his business, his solopreneurbusiness.
Everything that is being sold bythe internet is about doing it
by yourself.
Why is that?
We made this point on severalepisodes already.

(18:51):
It's trick to make sure thatyou're not getting any outside
feedback.
So you're constantly going tothis one person on social media
to get your dopamine, yourdirection, and your monthly
payment for whatever the fuck itis that they're selling you.
So this idea that you don'tsocialize or you don't test your

(19:12):
product in the real world is asrelevant as a guy who only
focuses on getting strong, fit,visibly like stronger like
bigger but his ultimate goalthat underlines all of it is not
that he wants to be an Olympianor a power lifter he wants to be
attractive to women right sorather than addressing the most

(19:37):
urgent need that you have whichis man I got no bitches I never
talk to girls when they're out Idon't have friends that put me
on to other girls I would muchrather take this long ass path
in a other direction that'sgoing to lead me to a goal
that's to get stronger thateventually will lead me to women
but just like the young man thatcreated the tech startup in

(20:01):
silicon valley and built aproduct in the darkness of his
room what was the phrase thatyou said

SPEAKER_00 (20:07):
building and stealth

SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
building and stealth getting strong and stealth if
you don't apply what you learnagainst reality and you don't
push up against reality you'llnever know if what you're
building can hold itself up inreal life.
So like an oak tree, there's aquick Twitter thread that I

(20:32):
looked through.
They tried to recreate oak treesbecause they're such important
pieces of our society thatcreate stuff that we need.
So they try to replicate oaktrees in a biodome.
They really try to manufacturethem and speed up the
manufacturing.
After 10 years, of creatingthese fake oak trees, the minute

(20:53):
they put it out into reality,they wouldn't bend, they
wouldn't give.
Why?
Because they weren't tested byreality, which is wind, rain,
elements.
That's what makes somethingdocile and have the ability to
flex, but also stand strongwhenever something happens.
I think the same could be saidabout products.

(21:15):
If you don't test your productin the real life market, you
don't even know if your productneeds to exist.
Same could be said about a guywho is insecure about how he
feels about talking to women.
You don't know what you have tooffer until you test it against
reality.
Reality is king.
It's a phrase I'm always goingto go back to.
And I think this is the same asthe point that you're making.

SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
Yeah.
And you know what's interesting?
And we could definitely dive in.
It's like, what's the balance?
Because we do encourage you topursue greatness, but at the
same time, do it in a healthymanner, right?
Like not reach burnout, notsacrifice relationships with
your family or your friends orgo into this monk mode and

(21:59):
isolate yourself from the world.
And then when it's time topresent your product or go to
market or show your six pack,it's like you don't know how to
be social.
There has to be a balance.
And I think that's probably themost interesting part is like,
how do you strike that balance?

SPEAKER_01 (22:14):
I mean, I don't know.
That is something that Idefinitely struggle with.
I'll be honest with you.
Me too.
And one commitment that I madewhen I was when we were going
over this topic it was tough forme to fully play the other side
and try to be the counterweightto these extraordinary people
that we idolize because Iidolize a lot of them too but I
think I have the discernment todistinguish what is the persona

(22:39):
like the character that KobeBryant plays in order to be a
marketable product and thereality of his life after he
steps off the stage that is abasketball court and that's
something that I alwaysstruggled with when i was young
and i would say always err onthe side of doing more over
committing over deliveringputting in more time in your

(22:59):
craft but when it comes at acost that's the balance is like
you need good sleep you needlove in your life you need
people around you that careabout you you need you need
friends you need to socializeyou need to get out because most
of the time if you don't havethat you're just truly living in
a vacuum

SPEAKER_00 (23:17):
yeah

SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
and i think that's the balance now one thing i
thought about when i was puttingthis like the brief together for
this show was, man, I did moveto California with no real idea
of how it would go for me.
And nobody in my family has leftthe tri-state area, like that
immediate New York, New Jersey,Florida pocket.
And me coming to California wasa big risk.

(23:40):
And I didn't really have thebiggest social circle out here,
but it paid off.
And what was the consequence ofthat?
I lost a lot of my friendshipsback home.
I lost a lot of connections topeople back home.
But But I did get to the nextlevel of my life, which
personally, I'm very excited andhappy that I was able to do it.
But I'd be lying if I said Iwish I had more of a connection

(24:01):
with a lot of people that wereback home that I grew up with
when I'm on social media and Isee people starting their
families or old friends linkingup.
And that's something Isacrificed.
Now, would I trade it for thelevel of happiness and content
that I got from achieving mygoals and my career and my
personal life?
Probably not.
But it is something that I hadto think about.

SPEAKER_00 (24:24):
Yeah.
Oh, that's good.
You know what made me think whenwe were talking about be
selective about what you idolizepeople for?
I always make rap referencesbecause we're big hip hop heads.
And I thought about somebodylike Jay-Z, right?
Jay-Z notoriously sold crack andMarcy Projects back in the 90s.

(24:47):
That's like one version ofJay-Z.
But then there's also likethe...
100 million Roc Nation dealJay-Z with Live Nation, right?
So it's like, which one are yougoing to admire?
Are you going to admire theslinging crack Jay-Z or the Roc
Nation deal with Live Nation?
Another one is like 50 Cent.
Like, are you going to beenamored by the getting shot

(25:10):
nine times story 50 Cent or the100 mil vitamin water deal that
he famously did, right?
And it's like, that's the choicethat we have when we look at
these individuals that weadmire.
It's like there's a flawedversion of them and there's like
the success story of them.
Fortunately, we're on theoutside looking in so we get to

(25:32):
see all the trials andtribulations that they go
through to ultimately become thesuccess story celebrity.
But the beauty about being onthe outside looking in is you
get to choose what corecomponent of that individual you
choose to admire.

SPEAKER_01 (25:48):
Yeah, I think what you're saying is just be mindful
of which version of the personyou choose to model yourself
after.
Because humans, ourselfincluded, Rich, you evolve over
time.
You might think, like if you hadto sit with 18-year-old Rich's
goals right now at your age, 37,you'd probably laugh at half of

(26:10):
the shit that 18-year-old Richwanted, right?
What did you want at 18 thatright now you'd laugh at?
You'd be like, there's no waythat that was even a part of my
plan right now.

SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
Just simple things.
a car, just money, betterclothes.
I think when you're 18 yearsold, you're definitely looking
at more of a popularity.
What are my friends doing?
How can I look cool amongst mypeers?
That's kind of like yourmentality when you're 18.
I wasn't thinking about going tocollege.
I was thinking about how tobuild a business, how to get

(26:43):
rich, just very naive thingsthat a lot of 18-year-olds
think.
Now that I look back, I'm like,damn, I wish my level of
thinking was more structured.
I wish I chose a specific path.
I wish I didn't give myself aplan A, B, or C.
No plan B.
Just pick one path to go down inbecause I feel like my focus

(27:05):
would have been a lot morelinear on a path to a more
successful career,

SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
let's say.
It's funny you just said itagain.
When I hear the phrase, no planB, and I think about an
18-year-old Justin, I think thatsounds cool.
No plan B.
I'm all in.

SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
I'm focused.
18 year old Justin, if I gothrough my old Twitter account
or Facebook, I probably havequotes like that on my Facebook.
And now at 39 years old, I thinkabout someone that age telling
me like, I'm all in on this onebet.
No plan B.
I respect it.

(27:48):
But in the back of my mind, I'mthinking, damn, if they don't
make it to the NBA or by thetime they turn 21 and they
realize they're only going to befive foot six at the very most,
it's going to be a sadtransition when you have to hit
that wall of reality and realizethat you probably should have

(28:10):
had a plan A.5, not B, butsomething that was like a safety
net in the event that plan Adidn't pan out.
See, this is the new on to thisconversation.
I can't hate on the energybehind No Plan B, but Sometimes
you need a plan 1.5 because ifplan one doesn't check out, you

(28:34):
got to have at least a littlespeedboat on the side of your
yacht in case that motherfuckerhits an iceberg and you got to
get out of there.
I'm in conflict.
I really am because I like theenergy behind it, but I don't
like the idea of netting out atzero.
That doesn't help anybody.

SPEAKER_00 (28:49):
Yeah, but I do like the no plan B ideology.
I think where we're in conflictis you have to be realistic
about that plan.
Delusion and reality.
That's something we should talkabout.
There's a fine line betweendelusion and reality.
Before you go all in, put allthe poker chips in the front and

(29:11):
go all in on your dream, therehas to be a level of achievable,
tangible, actionable goalsbehind that plan B.
You can't just wake up one dayand be like, I'm going to be the
next Jay-Z.
I'm going to be the next LilWayne.
These people are a one of one.

(29:31):
You're not going to wake up inthe morning and say, I'm going
to make myself a one of one.
That's not how this works.
You have to be realistic aboutwhat it is that you're doubling
down on, how you do that.
I think you have to identifywhat your superpower is.
I think me and you have spoken alot about this off air, but we

(29:52):
constantly have this idea aboutour superpower and we feel like
everyone has them.
whether that be you're reallygood at reading or you're really
good at writing or you're a goodsinger or you're very good at
gymnastics or whatever it is.
We feel like everyone has theirsuperpower and you kind of just

(30:13):
have to extract that out ofyourself and say, damn, I love
business, right?
It's all I do.
I trust my decision making.
Let me double down on that.
I mean, you could talk aboutwhat you've doubled down on and
what you've identified in yourlife.
That's paid dividends over time.

SPEAKER_01 (30:30):
One thing you said that stuck out to me was you
can't be one of one following awhole other grown man's
blueprint of their life.
Time, place, opportunities,technology, region, just so many
factors that go into one personhaving once in a lifetime luck

(30:57):
on their side And theirpreparation combined leading to
us getting a Steve Jobs or aBill Gates or a Mark Zuckerberg.
Mark Zuckerberg is the founderof Facebook that turned into
Meta.
But when I reread a book thatwas explaining how all these

(31:18):
younger guys becamemulti-billionaires in Silicon
Valley, it's funny.
If you change one part of theirlife, they're not that person
anymore.
So it's this weird coincidenceof events that happen mixed with
being prepared for thatopportunity that make these
people one of one.
If I'm not mistaken, and I'msure the nerds will correct us,

(31:41):
Rich and I are not nerds.
We're just lightly interested ina lot of subjects.
Mark Zuckerberg was going tosell Facebook to Yahoo if Yahoo
would have came with a properoffer when it was only a few
billion dollars.
And I think what Yahoo did lastminute was they changed the
selling price just because theirstock had went down the quarter

(32:05):
before.
So the value of what they wantedto buy Facebook for depreciated
because they were trying tomirror where their actual stock
was at.
So it was the same number, butit had just depreciated over a
quarter.
And only because the number wasoff by, I think, a few hundred
million or a billion, MarkZuckerberg pulled the offer and

(32:26):
decided, you know what?
We don't need the funding.
I'm just going to keep going.
Now, it's literally the mostprofitable, one of the most
profitable companies in theworld.
And we can retroactively say,man, Mark Zuckerberg knew the
whole time, but that's bullshit.
He didn't.
He was ready to sell hiscompany.
And if he would have did itthen, we wouldn't know who he is
today.

(32:46):
There's little decisions thatmake somebody goaded in their
category.
Going back to Michael Jordan,another sliding doors moment of
another reality was, In hisretirement speech, Michael
Jordan said, I mean, my motheris five foot six.
My dad is five foot eight.
I was the only person in myfamily above six foot.

(33:07):
I'm six foot five.
I don't know why that happened.
But if my brother was a foottaller, he would be standing on
this platform talking about whyhe's the greatest NBA player of
all time.
And I would just be another guy.
So don't forget in history whenyou go back that a lot of random
shit happens that leads to thesepeople being demigods.

(33:28):
And you can't follow their exactblueprint page for page because
they're a whole different personfrom a whole different time.
They capitalize on a wholedifferent opportunity.
And I just want to zoom a littlebit deeper into that point,
Rich, because this idea of beinga one of one is impossible if
you're following somebody else'swhole life script.

(33:50):
And you touched on it and I justwanted to double down on it
because I find that a lot of thetime that a lot of younger
people spend online is trying todownload to other people's
blueprints to their success.
And the truth is, you can getmoderately successful off of
that, but you're not going to beOlympian gold medalist level of

(34:11):
great in your category if you'refollowing a whole ass other
human's life plan because it'sexclusive to them.
So I know that's not what youasked me, but I did want to
mention that because I thinkit's important to understanding
what the point you were tryingto make, which is Justin, what
makes you unique and what wasthe benefit of doubling down on

(34:32):
it?
That's what you were askingpretty

SPEAKER_00 (34:34):
much.
Right.
Like I mentioned, you're notgoing to wake up in the morning
to be a one-of-one, right?
But to my earlier point, you canextract different success
stories from many differentpeople that influence you and
bring that back and bake thatinto whatever your blueprint is
or is going to be.

(34:55):
That's kind of like theadvantage of being on on the
outside looking in.
As you can see, damn, I likethis, these characteristics
about Elon Musk, hisrelentlessness.
I like Mark Zuckerberg'sdecision-making, right?
Or I like Michael Jordan'sdiscipline.
Or I like Kobe Bryant's mambomentality and how he puts

(35:18):
himself in a particular mentalstate.
There's a lot of great thingsthat you can extract from many
different people that influenceyou, but you're not going to
wake up in the morning and andbe a one of one.
It's just not realistic.

SPEAKER_01 (35:32):
And the one of one is you.
I think that's the point we'retrying to make.
You are the only one of one.
You could be the son of one ofthese people.
Think about it.
Michael Jordan has a son.
Respectfully, didn't come closeto whatever his dad was able to
accomplish.
Tom Hanks has a son.
We all know Tom Hanks' son asbeing someone that is an

(35:53):
absolute fool.
Someone that has no identity anddecided to co-op Caribbean
identity as a white man as somesort of internet prank that has
been going on forever.
Tom Hanks is a one of oneprofessionally trained actor.
I watched a documentary on RicFlair recently and it was one of
the saddest things I've everwatched because Ric Flair was a

(36:17):
one of one to wrestling and hisenergy and his persona and just
this cocktail of a human beingwas able to cut through
something a field where not alot people could cut through,
which is like wrestling, youhave to play a character.
Ric Flair has kids and they alltried to play Ric Flair.
Even one of them in thedocumentary passed away trying

(36:40):
to be like his dad.
If it doesn't net one-to-onefrom mother to son, from mother
to daughter, what makes youthink it's going to connect
one-to-one for a person that youhave nothing like outside of
your admiration for that person?
So find your natural drift.
Find something that you'recurious about and you get

(37:02):
excited about and mix it withall these other positive traits
from people that you admire Ibelieve that's what you were
trying to say I just wanted tobring that point home

SPEAKER_00 (37:12):
yeah yeah I agree like just sticking to the
wrestling topic rest in peaceHulk Hogan but if you wake up in
the morning you're like man Ireally love wrestling I want to
pursue this career I want to belike Hogan like oh man do you
know how much steroids that mantook throughout his life.
Do you know how much of abeating his body took from all

(37:34):
the drugs he was taking and thecareer path that he chose?
I think he died from a heartattack.
Really?
I don't know if they attestedhis heart attack to any of the
drugs that he took or anythinglike that, but he's had a very
difficult life when it comes tothe things he's put his body
through.
Is he a larger than lifepersona?

(37:55):
Yes.
Is he a household name?
Yes.
But behind the curtains, there'sthis whole other aspect to him
and who he was that that's notsomething you should be
idolizing or pursuing.

SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
Yeah, not at all.
I mean, being a celebrity is awhole other conversation, and
that definitely comes at a cost.
You can't turn on your computertoday and buy the live streaming
book pack, the Wi-Fi, and walkaround Midtown Manhattan or one
of the boroughs live streamingyour life and assume that you're
going to be Kai Sanat.

(38:28):
It just doesn't work that way.
I love watching these videos ofthese online celebrities when
they upload their first piece ofcontent.
And then you look at what theyturned into six years later.
It's just like anything else.
It's like that photo of TravisScott performing to like five
people.

SPEAKER_00 (38:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (38:47):
And then you see, it's all a journey.
These maps are unique to thesepeople.
But to your point, Rich, that'sparts of that journey that you
can pull from as inspiration,but you're not going to and be
able to duplicate exactly theway they did.
One thing I did want to get intowith you was it's probably
appropriate we talk about how westarted Goodfella Media.

(39:08):
And I know that subject is alittle sensitive to both of us
because that's how me and younot only built our first project
with four other co-founders, Q,Knight, AR, Kimmy, who were
there with us when we built thefoundation of Goodfella Media.
I think that was the first timewe stepped into what made us

(39:31):
unique and we found our naturaldrift and we were able to build
something in high school, right?
Or right out of high school?

SPEAKER_00 (39:39):
It was right out of high school.
I think we were around 18 or 19.
And yeah, man, we built a prettysuccessful media company that
consisted of like a YouTubechannel.
This is like early YouTube.
Pre-ads.
They didn't even have ads.
Pre-Mr.
Beast.
Wow.
when Mr.
Beast was uploading his firstvideo.

(40:01):
We were already up there.
We had our own music blog, whichwas, that was the big thing back
then, the blog era.
And fortunately, we had thisradio station, this college
radio station that we had theliberty to sort of use for two
hours.
And, you know, it was dope theway we came together because we
initially started as a sideproject.

(40:22):
And then we said to ourselves,well, wait a minute, like
there's a lot of components herethat we can use to prepare and
actually build a brand out ofthis.
And that's exactly what we did.
And a shout out to you forseeing what everyone else was
good at and saying, okay, theseare the pieces that I need to
sort of build this brand up.

(40:43):
And I think what you saw in mewas like, man, this guy, Rich,
he's a planner.
He's someone who can put thepieces to the puzzle together.
He can bring structure aroundwhat we're doing.
And when I came on board, Westarted the website.
We started the YouTube.
We started to reach out torappers and celebrities early

(41:04):
on.
And they started responding tous and they were willing to make
the hour drive from MidtownManhattan all the way to New
Brunswick, New Jersey, just tomeet with us.
And it was dope, man.
I'm glad that we did it, butthat was sort of like our first
taste to what it takes to builda brand, what it takes to work
together.
And honestly, like what it takesfor you to find what you're good

(41:28):
at.
Like we had no real businessbuilding a brand and a company
at 18, 19 years old.

SPEAKER_01 (41:34):
Yeah.
And our high school wasn't doingus no favors and they weren't
putting us in a position wherewe could actually learn those
skills.
Right.
So you're right.
This little side project was thebeginning of us finding our
natural drift, things that wewere good at that were
transferable in the real worldand on a professional level.
Because it's ironic that it'slike 20 plus years ago, the

(41:55):
thing that we did as a hobbyturned into probably like the
first real thing that was on ourresume outside of like working
at Whole Foods.

SPEAKER_00 (42:03):
Yeah.
And now that we could look backon them, you think about those
moments and those were sort oflike the nucleus that sparked
what the next 20 years of ourlives would look like.
So you did- 100%.
10,000 hours of like interviewswith musicians and different
artists.
You ended up working in themusic industry, becoming a music

(42:23):
marketing executive.
I focused a lot on the tech sideof our business because building
the YouTube, building our onlinepresence.
I turned that into like a techcareer that ultimately
transitioned into like acybersecurity career.
So early on, we kind of doubleddown on what we thought made us
great and our sort ofsuperpower.

(42:44):
And that journey took us intowhere we ultimately ended up
today.

SPEAKER_01 (42:49):
Yeah.
And I mean, the sacrifice thatcame with it was something we
were willing to give at thattime, but it didn't come at the
cost of over a celebrity thathad already done it.
We just kind of drifted tosomething that we naturally
gravitated towards.
At the time, I think back on it,I don't know, I'd be curious to

(43:12):
know what you thought about it,but for me, I remembered sitting
with everybody and always havingthat energy of like, man, I know
I'm a host of, well, I was aco-host of the show with Q and
Knight, But I always felt like Iwould much rather be behind the
scenes pushing this from abusiness standpoint.

(43:35):
And I definitely got thatideology from people that were
around me that I grifted off oftheir skillset.
And that's my father and mybrother and my mother who had
this hustler's mentality, butthey were very charismatic.
And there were people that wereeasy to talk to and people that
can get anyone to move in thedirection they wanted them to.

(43:58):
So if you reverse engineer a lotof these skills that I was able
to borrow from, whether it beDNA or just watching my family,
it's leadership skills.
My mom, my brother, my father,all my uncles, very loud and
demonstrative personalities thatit's impossible for any holiday
to happen in my family becausewe have no Indians in our

(44:21):
family.
It's just none but chiefswalking around telling each
other what to do.
That's why there's so muchconflict.
Sales skills.
Being persuasive.
My family, you've been aroundthem, Rich.
They're always high energy.
They're always complimentingpeople.
These are natural skills thatkind of came from the house that
I lived in.
And I was able to transfer them.
And I always seen my personalskill set as something that was

(44:45):
more of like charismatic, butsomebody that can get people to
move in a direction.
And I always felt that way, butI never could put a label on it.
So the greater point here is,you know, saying that there's no
plan B and understandingunderstanding that being
extraordinary comes at a cost.
The way it starts off is not bythe minute the race starts, you

(45:05):
just say, all right, I'm notdoing anything else.
I'm locked in.
This is who I am.
I'm in monk mode, no plan B.
I'm at this point all the way tothat.
That's a mistake.
It's definitely a mistake.
It's a mistake because when youfirst start, you should just get
a rough idea of what you're goodat and what value you can give
to the smaller tribes thatyou're in.
And for someone that's ages 14all the way to 18, That's

(45:28):
something as simple as joiningan organization at school,
starting something with yourfriends, and just seeing where
the pieces fall naturally versushaving this very rigid ideology
that you're tied to and you haveno other oxygen from the rest of
the world, like the oak treeanalogy that I made.
If the world doesn't test yourtheories, your theories are

(45:48):
flawed out the gate because yourtheories are not applied in
reality.
They're just theories.
So that's something that I thinkRich and I wanted to discuss
when we're talking about ourgood fellow story.
And to be clear, Goodfellowwasn't a rinky dink ass media
company.
We were doing millions of viewsper month in the pre YouTube era
before it was oversaturated.
So we were not only able todevelop our skillset from

(46:12):
working with each other andbuilding something as young men,
but we were also able to testout our theories in real time.
We weren't just living a roadmapthat we found online.

SPEAKER_00 (46:22):
Yeah.
I love that story because thisties back into the reality
versus delusion topic.
that we spoke on earlier.
Like when we started Goodfella,yes, you were on screen and
boots on the ground interviewingthese rappers and musicians and
ultimately transitioned behindthe curtains.
But you didn't veer off too farfrom what the no plan B plan for

(46:47):
Justin was, right?
It was very much going to belike your majors in
communications.
That's what you were going toschool for.
You knew you wanted to be inmusic.
You knew you wanted to be inentertainment.
You did probably indirectly giveyourself a no plan B plan.
And you really didn't deviatetoo far from that plan.

SPEAKER_01 (47:07):
I think the good advice is that it was a
combination of both.
If I could look back, it waslike, it was like a loop, like a
feedback loop.
Like, what do I think I'm goodat?
What do I know I'm good at?
Let's apply that to reality.
And then whatever I got backfrom the world, I would keep
going in that direction.
But let's be clear.
We come from an area wherethere's, there wasn't a lot of

(47:28):
opportunity.
Hudson County, New Jersey in the90s and the 2000s, a lot of
lower income families, not a lotof opportunities.
So you kind of have to takewhat's given to you and then try
to figure it out after the fact.
So we created something, but wewere using our natural skills
mixed with the resources we hadavailable.

(47:50):
And then you just keep runningthat formula back every time you
get feedback from the world andyou keep moving forward.
And I think that is the greaterpoint of what we're saying here
are you clear on what it is thatyou're saying about your idols
these guys had to sacrifice somuch to even get to the point
where you know who they are andwhat you're getting is advice

(48:13):
from someone that's alreadyeither rich or retired and
they're giving you what the topof the mountain looks like
versus what climbing themountain really is like and that
is our precaution rich and i arepro hustle.
Rich and I are pro missing 33 ofyour cousin's birthday parties

(48:34):
to make sure you achievewhatever goal you have in front
of you.
I'd be a fucking liar if I saidI didn't miss the last 20
birthday parties in my family.
But I call my mom when it's herbirthday.
I text my pops when it's hisbirthday.
I try to be around for mybrother and his kids.
Outside of that, you might nothear from me.
So don't get it twisted.
We are insanely dedicated towhat we want out of life.

(48:55):
And we're not distracted by a Atthe same time, be careful who
your idols are and understandthe cost that comes with
dedicating and sacrificingeverything to only one goal.
That is the greater point.
Now, Rich, I do want to get intosome actionable advice.
I put a little quick listtogether here.
Let me know if you have any onyour end, but I do want to

(49:18):
emphasize if there is a youngman out there that's confused by
our messaging and he's thinkingto himself like, wait, so do I
go hard or do I not go hard?
I'm confused.
Should I be extraordinary orshould I just not be as
dedicated?
How would you play the gray areain this particular episode?

SPEAKER_00 (49:38):
I feel like you should be confused.

SPEAKER_01 (49:41):
Oh, wow.
By the way, you might be thefirst YouTube personality ever
to say that.

SPEAKER_00 (49:46):
Bro, because it's real.

SPEAKER_01 (49:47):
Aren't you supposed to have it all figured out?
Isn't it supposed to be crystal

SPEAKER_00 (49:51):
clear?
No, we don't.
And that's the beauty of it.
You should be confused.
Listen, just how you stated it.
This is a gray area.
That's why it's confusing.
There's no right or wronganswer.
We are saying that you should gohard.
You should pursue greatness withcaution, right?
Be careful who you're beinginfluenced by.

(50:11):
Be careful what content you'reconsuming.
On the other end, we're sayingdon't over-isolate yourself.
Don't be close-minded to believethat you can't learn things from
outside sources or be influencedby people that are not
celebrities.
We're saying don't work so hardto the point where you reach

(50:35):
burnout and then you can't evenfinish building the product
because you're just so burnt outor you end up selling a product
prematurely because you reachedburnout and ran out of money and
couldn't complete the project.
So yeah, I don't think there's aright or wrong answer.
We don't have all the answersand this is why it's a gray

(50:56):
area.
There's a fine line betweenreaching the top of the mountain
and understanding how to getthere without dying while you
get to the top.

SPEAKER_01 (51:06):
Yeah.
I mean, I couldn't have said itany better myself.
So I do want to kind of put afiner point on this part of the
podcast, just so the busy or thefucking lazy person could be
both or efficient person that'sscrolling to the very end of the
podcast that wants to know,okay, what are the eight pieces

(51:27):
of actionable advice that I canapply for someone that is in the
mode of not having a plan B.
And our only precaution to thisyoung man that says I have no
plan B is understand that beingextraordinary comes at a high
price.

(51:47):
Are you willing to pay thatprice?
So actionable advice number one,Rich, you just said it, I'm
going to summarize it, is it'sokay to be confused.
Nothing difficult is clear onday one.
Does that feel right to you?

SPEAKER_00 (52:03):
Yeah, it's a gray area for a reason.
No, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 (52:07):
Actionable advice number two.
This is one that I personallytook note of.
You have to have an action bias.
This idea that you're just goingto put a picture of Alex Hermosi
on your wall and you're going tobuild a billion dollar empire
tomorrow because you have everyAlex Hermosi book, you watched

(52:28):
all his YouTube videos, and nowyou're going to build a
multi-million dollar smallbusiness.
I respect it.
I watch his videos.
I'm sure Rich has come acrossthem too.
He's an incredible YouTubepersonality.
But the truth is, Alex Ramosicreates content to create a
funnel that's going to allow youto purchase one of his products

(52:50):
that he's selling you at the endof the day.
The dude is a fucking sniperwhen it comes to sales.
I'm saying, that's cool.
Get your information.
You need your gurus.
You need your guides.
You need your books.
You need your knowledge.
You need your baselineinformation.
But the one thing none of thisis ever going to happen without
is an action bias.
And I think that's crucial whenit comes to this subject.

(53:12):
You have to choose action first.
Sitting around reading,researching, chat GPT-ing, LLM
therapy-ing, all thisinformation you have is fine,
but it's the equivalent if youjust read and watched every book
and video on how to swim and youdon't know how to swim.
Nothing in the world is going toprepare you for getting out to

(53:34):
the ocean than jumping in thewater.
We talked about this in an olderepisode.
Big difference between map andterrain.
Map is two-dimensional.
It's this.
It's a piece of paper.
Terrain is going out into theworld and seeing what a mountain
looks like, seeing how realhumans move in a corporate

(53:56):
setting, being around thesharks, seeing how the sharks
move.
The only way you can reallyeducate yourself is by taking
action.
So I think that's a huge pieceof advice that we can share with
our community that is importantthat's number two action bias
for sure

SPEAKER_00 (54:09):
yeah I think three it's certainly I'm glad you
touched on this earlier it wasthe reality versus delusion if
you're gonna double down on aplan B like bro it has to be
something realistic you can'tjust be like I'm gonna be a
world famous rapper or I'm gonnamake a hundred million in the
next five years like how how areyou going to do that what is the

(54:32):
plan don't double down on somebullshit.
You know what I mean?
You're wasting your time.

SPEAKER_01 (54:37):
Yeah, but Rich, I'm in sicko mode.
I'm in sicko mode.
I'm locked in.

SPEAKER_00 (54:41):
By the way, yes, you can be locked in on the wrong
shit.
That's a thing, right?
You could double down in thecompletely wrong direction.
You could say, I'm going to makesix figures and then go to the
streets and sling crack and makethe six figures.
That's a choice.
You could absolutely make sixfigures the legal way or the

SPEAKER_01 (55:03):
illegal way.
I have a question and it has todo with reality versus delusion
because I think I can make thepoint both ways.
What is your response to a youngman ages between 15 to 22 that
says, I hear you on this realityversus delusion point, Rich, but
I'm not about to take a nine tofive when I know I can make

(55:25):
millions of dollars being acreator or being a live streamer
or being someone that can makeit online.
Because I feel like I can makethe argument for both, but what
you're saying is be aware ofwhat you're betting everything
on.
If your plan A with no plan B isthis, then I need you to have an
idea of what reality versusdelusion is for that particular

(55:48):
decision you just made.

SPEAKER_00 (55:49):
Yeah, and what I would say to that young person
is it's a risk versus reward,right?
Like, are you in the positionwhere you can take a high amount
of risk in the hopes of gettinga high reward?
If you're somebody who's youngand you're living at home and
your parents are paying all thebills and you don't really have
bills like that, you don't havestudent loans and you really

(56:11):
don't have to produce a lot ofincome, you can absolutely take
the high, like bump that riskmeter all the way to 10 because
you can afford to take risks andfail and iterate in the hopes of
getting that big payout or thatbig reward.
But that particular situation isnot realistic if you're 22, 23,

(56:32):
24.
and your girlfriend's pregnantand you have to find an
apartment and you have to feedthis new baby that you guys are
about to have.
That's a different reality forthat person.
So very much calculate that riskand reward and it's case by
case.
That's what I would say.

SPEAKER_01 (56:52):
I think that's great advice.
I have a good number four that'sassociated to what you just
said.
Internal wins are the real wins,not the outside world's idea of
a win And I think that's a 200,300 level piece of advice for
this very 100 levelconversation.
And I think that's somethingthat I just learned in the last

(57:13):
five years.
A part of me still gets upsetthat I didn't accomplish every
single thing I wanted toaccomplish.
And a part of me, this isprobably my ego, it tells me,
yeah, that's a fucking coat,Justin.
You didn't accomplish the goaland now you changed the goal.
So I don't even know if I'msaying this, with the most

(57:34):
clarity for our communitybecause it's something that I'm
conflicted with.
But I do like the language andthe idea of an internal win.
What's the win for you?
What was to be gained on thepath and the journey that you
chose?
Not a win to the outside world.
That one feels right.
I'm not going to lie.
At 39 years old, I'm starting tocome to peace with, yeah, you

(57:57):
set out with a goal in mindbecause it's the mountaintop.
Why wouldn't you try to getthere?
But the reality is is a lot canbe learned on your way to that
goal and you could developyourself in ways that you didn't
even understand you were capableof on your way to a goal that
pushed you past comfort but ifyou're at peace with how far
you've gone and now you have adifferent life path but based on

(58:19):
your age or someone you met oryou know what I'm going through
right now with my personal lifeit's okay to adjust based on
what feels like an internal winto you and that's a tough one
because you only you know.
You get what I'm saying?
Like only you know what the winis.
Now, if you cheated yourself andyou didn't work hard enough and

(58:40):
your self-esteem is low becauseyou know to yourself that you
cheated yourself and you didn'twork hard enough and then you
change the goal, that's a littlebit different.

SPEAKER_00 (58:51):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:51):
I feel like I haven't unpacked that one, but
that's kind of what I'm feelinglike these days, to be honest

SPEAKER_00 (58:56):
with you.
No, I like that.
And this is definitely a 300level perspective.
This is for our older communitymembers The way I would
rationalize that is thateveryone's reality is different,
is unique, is proprietary toyou.
And to your point, what successmay look like to you on a
day-to-day might not be the sameas what success looks like to

(59:17):
me.
Our point of reference is allthe different failures that
we've had throughout our lives.
And that's the data set thatwe're operating under.
I've had my sets of failures.
You've had your sets offailures.
But they're different, right?
And that's part of what makes usAnd I love that, by the way,
because you should celebratethose internal wins because that

(59:40):
is part of what's going topropel you to continue going
forward and continue motivatingyou.

SPEAKER_01 (59:46):
You know, what really helped me with that was
really getting knee deep intothe origin of a lot of tech
founders, more modern techfounders.
And then I kind of got into likepeople that built businesses in
the 1900s, but it was more ofthe last 30 years and how these
young men got rich.
And I think the number is like75 to 80% of blue chip

(01:00:10):
multi-billion dollar exitcompanies.
I think like over 75% of themstarted as something totally
different than what theyeventually sold as.
Example, PayPal was originallyan email currency exchange
company.
According to Peter Thiel andElon Musk, They wanted to create

(01:00:35):
what essentially is Bitcoin now.
They wanted to turn currencyexchange into an all internet
thing.
And what they got was PayPal.
And if you know what PayPal is,it's a version of that idea.
It's probably one eighth of theoriginal business plan.
The reason why MySpace was, andanybody who doesn't know what
MySpace is, it was Facebookbefore Facebook.
It was originally a mediasoftware storage website, and it

(01:01:02):
turned into a social mediaplatform.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:04):
Uber was supposed to be a luxury car service where
you can get private cars so youcan do it on your phone and it
eventually turned into ridesharing amongst human beings
Amazon was a bookstore

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:15):
yeah

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:16):
Amazon was a bookstore think about that like
all these companies what theyturned out to become versus what
they were I think at some pointhad to deal with the filter of
reality and adjusting yourselfwhile you're chasing that
original goal but adjust thegoal to be something that's more

(01:01:36):
truthful to what's happening inthe moment.
And again, as I say that, I feellike I'm still coping with this
idea that I wanted to be thegreatest music executive of all
time.
But my plan pivoted on my way tothat goal because I'm starting
to see it more clearly becauseI'm 39 years old, 20 years into
my business.
And I realized, damn,18-year-old Justin wanted to fly

(01:01:59):
to Florida, but he ended up inHawaii.
Or 18-year-old Justin wanted tofly to California, California,
but ended up in Hawaii.
And I think that's a matter ofjust making the adjustments with
new information while I'm takingflight versus just trying to be
perfect from New Jersey all theway to California.
I don't know if that makessense.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:16):
No, it does.
And I like those examples youshared.
And I don't think we even haveto veer that far off if you look
at our friendship and how longwe've known each other.
I think we met at 16, 17.
We were both working at WholeFoods Market.
And one of the things that youand I connected on personally
was self-help.
content and we shared an audibleaccount and we would download

(01:02:38):
every month we would put moneyinto the account and download
different content and think andgrow rich and a whole bunch of
like millionaire self-helpcontent and bro we were obsessed
about that content and we wouldshare clips and we would share
YouTube videos and documentariesand we were completely consumed
by this idea of we found contentthat could make us better humans

(01:03:04):
we're just going to keepconsuming and keep getting
better and better and better,right?
So if you think about us workingon sharing that commonality at
16, 17, then we went on to builda media company.
We went the music route.
We both love music.
Then you went on to be a musicexecutive.
Then I went on to be acybersecurity professional.
But when we circle back 20 yearsin the making, we've never

(01:03:28):
stopped consuming this self-helpcontent.
We still share clips with eachother Right.
Like we've still do the thingsthat we used to do when we were
17, 18 years old.
And now here we are full circlemoment building this failures
podcast and failures brand.
You

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:46):
just sparked a thought, which it's funny.
I'm using all these referencesthat are not native to our day
to day, but just stuff that I'mimpressed by, by young people
making billions of dollars.
And you were able to summarizeour lives to make the point
versus someone that is not us tomake the point.
And I just had a moment ofclarity for what we're building

(01:04:09):
here.
And that's at 17 years old, whenRich and I were sharing an
Audible account, trying to milkas much cheat codes from these
self-help books so we can besuccessful and not fail and find
all these cheat codes.
20 plus years later, I think therealization is there are no

(01:04:30):
cheat codes.
There's just ass whoopings.
while you're pursuing this ideaof a goal that you think you
want.
It's impossible to tell somebodynot to drive a Lamborghini or
they shouldn't drive aLamborghini when you're sitting
in a Lamborghini.
If you've never driven one, thatfeeling is never going to go
away.

(01:04:50):
Same applies to a beautifulwoman.
Trust me, you don't want abeautiful woman as a girlfriend.
It can distract you.
It's a lot of maintenance.
You go outside with her.
People disrespect you.
You go to family events.
Your uncles are shooting theirshot at your girl.
It It gets wicked.
But you can't say that to ayoung man because he's going to
want to have it himself beforehe can say, okay, I know I don't

(01:05:11):
want that.
So I love that point you justbrought up, Rich.
It took us 20 years of sharingan Audible account and looking
for the answers and the cheatcodes and these self-help books
only to realize 20 years later,both of us damn near 40 and we
came to the same conclusion.
There is no cheat code.
There is no cheat codes and weshould create a platform letting

(01:05:33):
young men know there's a lot ofnuance to this shit let us help
you get through it and I thinkthat is a perfect closing to
this episode a lot of thesethings that we're going to talk
about on this platform they'renot going to be as clear as a
top 10 list to get guaranteedresults whoever is selling you
that is a fucking liar andthey're a con man and they

(01:05:55):
deserve for every account thatthey have to be taken down
because you're misleading peopleit's the 8 minute abs of the
self help community and I wethink it's fucked up because we
lived our lives we followed allthese blueprints and we're at
where we're at and I'm notsaying we're not happy with
where we're at but the one truthwe know is there's a lot of gray
area a lot of these subjects andwe'd like to bring in more

(01:06:16):
professionals that we know verysuccessful people that can also
help unpack these very casesensitive situations

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:22):
yeah I love that we're gonna definitely have to
bring more people up here and wemight have to revisit every
episode with like guests to givetheir perspective on this well

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:32):
you know what I think an 18 year old version of
justin would have seen thisepisode titled no plan b and i
would have clicked on itthinking i was going to get like
sex advice like what do i dowhat do i do if i accidentally
got my side chick pregnantthat's what i would think when i
see no plan b

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:52):
there you go that's the hook

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:56):
you want to talk about no plan b stories boy does
rich got some for you guys

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:01):
yeah maybe on the next episode

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:03):
failures podcast we're out of here rich do i know
you got your closing spiel youwant to give our

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:11):
community yes man listen it's been a couple
episodes we've been getting alot of feedback please continue
to give us feedback leave themin the comments rate the podcast
on apple podcast we're onspotify or everywhere you get
your podcast out of here peace