The Father Wound: Healing the Void Every Man Carries

We Want To Hear From You! Text Us Here

Every man is fighting one of two battles — becoming his father or proving he’s not him.

In this powerful episode of Failures: The Podcast, Rich and Justin unpack “The Father Wound” — the invisible void left behind when a father is absent, distant, or emotionally unavailable.

They explore how that wound shapes a man’s identity, relationships, anger, and ambition — and how to finally break the cycle. From childhood pain to overcompensation and people-pleasing, to finding forgiveness and building a new legacy, this is one of the most raw and necessary conversations we’ve ever had.

Failures: The Podcast 2025
We're not gods. We're not gurus.
Just two men in our 30s sharing what we’ve learned the hard way—so you don’t have to.

🎙️ New episodes every week
📲 Follow @FailuresMedia on all platforms
🧠 Join the movement: https://failuresmedia.com/subscribe

If this episode helped you, share it. That’s how we grow.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:03):
It's almost like a really weird positive lens to
look at not growing up with aconsistent father figure.
Is that you learn to deal withlife by playing the cards that
are already put in front of you,and then you just move forward.
Failures podcast.

(00:23):
Learn from our failures and ourmistakes so you don't have to.
Today we are talking aboutfather wounds, the void left
behind when fathers are notaround.
Rich, every man I know isfighting one of two battles.
Either you're becoming yourfather without realizing it, or
you're just spending all yourenergy trying to prove you're

(00:45):
not him.
But honestly, bro, both are thesame wound.
Here's the thing that nobodytells you about the father
wound.
Kids like me and you who grew upwithout dads or dads that were
not around at pivotal points inour lives, they grow up with an
emotional absence, a void.
They don't just get over it.
They spend their late teenyears, their 20s and their 30s

(01:08):
either copying the sameemotional shutdown or becoming
people pleasers.
We see a lot of people like thatin our community.
They overcompensate in eitherone of two directions.
And the saddest part is thatthey grow up subconsciously
knowing that something'smissing.
And it doesn't become clearuntil they get older.
Rich, was there ever a time whenyou were younger and you

(01:29):
realized that you did have avoid when it came to this thing
that we're seeing online calledthe father wound?

SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
Man, the the father wound.
I I got a big band-aid over thatone.
Yeah, bro.
I remember being 14, 15 in highschool, entering the dating
scene, uh, going throughpuberty, and having all these
questions about, you know,becoming a man and sensitive
questions, right?
One that you wouldn't feelcomfortable asking your mom.

(01:59):
And I remember just lookingaround me for that sort of male
figure and not having it.
And like it devastated me.
I'm like, man, these aredefinitely moments where I wish
I had a father to uh speak to,get advice from, um, and learn
how to navigate uh puberty andyou know ultimately be becoming
uh a man.
So very tough time for megrowing up.

(02:21):
That was like one of the firstmoments in my life where I felt
I really uh had a void.

SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
Rich, uh I I love that you explained that.
You broke that down because theidea came from a few subjects
that we wanted to touch on thatwe haven't, and we're about 15
episodes into the failurespodcast catalog.
Why the father one was soimportant to you?

SPEAKER_00 (02:43):
Yeah, I I feel like most men have some sort of
relationship with their fathers,whether that be good or negative
or or critical about theirfathers.
A lot of times you you attributeyour upbringing to either your
mother, your father, or or bothof your parents, and you sort of
nitpick as to uh the things youliked about your upbringing, the

(03:04):
things you didn't like.
And I just remember having thatfather void being such a pivotal
thing in my life where I'm like,man, there's more people like us
without fathers or or absentfathers that than there are not.
So I'm like, we definitely haveto unpack and um you know just
share some advice about how wewere able to reframe our

(03:25):
mentality to not feel that thatvictim mentality of like, man, I
grew up without a father and andI've had this void my entire
life.

SPEAKER_02 (03:33):
I love that you brought that up.
And, you know, for ourconsistent viewers, they know
that we always take the approachof not claiming to be gurus or
gods.
We do touch on a lot ofsubjects, whether it be with
women or finances or justgrowing up as a young man in
2025 and beyond, right?
But I don't claim I'm an expertat anything, but I do find that

(03:57):
you and I, Rich, bond over thisthing.
We have a different situationwith both of our fathers.
Your father was pretty muchabsent.
I don't know when he was absent.
I'd like you to get into that,but my father, a lot of people
do know him where I'm from.
He's a very notoriouslywell-known guy for a lot of the

(04:18):
stuff he did in his personallife, how he made money.
He was very active in thestreets.
He was, as us Puerto Ricans liketo call a callejero, he was
somebody that ran around a lotin order to make ends meet.
And I find myself conflictedwith this particular episode
because a lot of the resourcesand the subjects we're pulling
from are people that theirfathers abandoned them at birth

(04:40):
or they left them early, whichis more of your situation.
My situation is a little bitdifferent because my father was
around, but he was very muchpreoccupied by a lot of other
things.
And a lot of my push and pullthat comes from this subject
comes from that.
So I almost feel like a fraud,you know, doubling down on the
things that I want to hear fromyou first, because tell us a

(05:03):
little bit about growing upwithout a father and when did it
happen, and and how does thissubject resonate with you?

SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
Yeah, for sure.
So my pop left our family when Iwas two years old.
I think my mom was alreadypregnant with my brother.
So he left super early on.
I really didn't get to know himearly on in life.
He sort of popped in and outaround like seven or eight years
old, uh, popped in again around12 or 13.
And when I say pop out, I meanlike, hey, let's go hang out for

(05:30):
a day, right?
And then just drop us back off.
Um, but not any sort of realrelationship.
It wasn't until I got older thatI realized, wow, like he has
been, you know, missing for mostof my life.
And we've never had thatconnection or that relationship.
And it wasn't around 17 or 18when I thought to myself, I'm

(05:52):
like, damn, like what did I dowrong?
Like, why did he leave?
Well, was it something we did?
Like, were we not enough forhim?
Like, what is he running awayfrom?
Like, I always I wanted to havethat relationship with my pops,
but he just didn't seeminterested.
It would just wasn't somethingthat felt like it didn't matter
to him.
Um, and I just always rememberself-reflecting to myself, I'm

(06:14):
like, damn, like why, like, isthere something wrong with me?
Like, did I do something wrong?
Did me and my brother, you know,push him away?
And that's a very real thing tofeel, bro.
I feel like most kids feel, mostyoung men feel that they're the
cause uh as to why their pops isnot around.
And that's sort of one of thefirst things you have to

(06:36):
reframe.
And we'll get into that uh inthe latter half of this show.

SPEAKER_02 (06:40):
This is good.
And I I I'm glad you said that.
I want our listeners to knowthat the first half of the
episode we're gonna dedicate tounpacking what a lot of younger
guys in our community are goingthrough, even older guys, guys
in their mid-20s, late 20s.
Rich and I are dead center inthe middle of this subject.
So we want to speak on our ownpersonal situations to give more

(07:01):
context to this wound that isleft behind by not having a
father figure or having a fatherdo other things other than raise
you in a way that you'veprobably seen other people
getting raised.
So we will unpack that in thefirst half.
But the second half, Rich and Iare gonna get into I think the
best case scenario for for youand me, Rich, which was how we

(07:24):
approached this, I want to sayflaw.
It almost felt like it was aflaw growing up that we didn't
have what other kids had, wedidn't have what other young men
had.
And how we weaponized it.
We turned that fuel into fire.
And the language used in a lotof these research papers, which
I went down a rabbit hole justto try to give myself like this

(07:44):
self-therapy, they call itovercompensation.
That's pretty much what it is.
A lot of broken young men whoeither come from abusive fathers
or fathers that weren't aroundor fathers that neglected them
or young men that yearn for thevalidation of their father, what
happens is they wind upovercompensating.
And I want to get into the backhalf of the episode of how that

(08:07):
overcompensation has, I thinkit's helped both of us.
You're in your mid-30s, I'm inmy late 30s.
And I almost got to thank theway I was raised for being a big
reason for how broken I am whenit comes to conquering any
problem that's in front of mebecause I refuse to feel that
feeling that I felt when I was akid and I was kind of abandoned.

(08:29):
And that's part of theoverconversation.
And I want to get into how wecould flip this negative
narrative and turn it into amore positive narrative.
Some of our greatest mentors andpeople that I admire come from
the most fucked up backgrounds.
And I think you can't have onewithout the other, as
unfortunate as that sounds.
So, just my calling to young menis that you're not doomed.

(08:54):
This is not something thatshould cripple you.
It actually should help you withwhat comes later in life,
because life is not easy.
And a lot of these situations,when you grow up fatherless or
with this void of validation, itactually carries into adulthood.
And if you're used to feelinglesser, then you learn how to
get over it quicker.

SPEAKER_00 (09:15):
Yeah, I agree.
And I feel like thatovercompensation is sort of the
end result of growing up with anabsent father.
I think like the naturalprogression of how you unravel
your emotions is that first itstarts with anger.
It's like, why is he not around?
I want him around.
Am I broken?

(09:35):
Is there something wrong withme?
You know, what do we do to pushhim away?
So it's that anger of like thevoid, right?
Then there's a moment of griefwhere you're just like you come
to an acceptance of like, damn,this is just the way it is.
I'll maybe I'll never know whyhe left and why he didn't choose
to stick around, but I have tocome to a place of grief, a
place of acceptance in order forme to continue to move forward.

(09:58):
And then I think phase three isexactly what you just said is
just giving yourself thatovercompensation of like, okay,
I see how I was raised without afather.
I'm gonna do exactly what hedidn't do for me with my child.
I'm going to educate myself onwhat it really is like to be a

(10:20):
good father, right?
I I'm sure you you've probablyseen this clip from uh Fresh
Prince of Balair where WillSmith is super happy that his
pops comes back and he he'sexcited.
And, you know, Uncle Phil tellshim, like, hey man, just so you
know, your dad has been in andout of your life, like, don't
get so excited.
He's making all these falsepromises.
And then later on in the show,he buys him a gift and his pops

(10:43):
is gonna bail on him againbecause he said he got a has
another job or whatever.
And you know, he deserted himonce again after he was sort of
an adult.
And he told Uncle Phil, How comehe don't want me, man?
Like, what is it about me thatis so wrong that he keeps
running away from?
So, yeah, man, it it's it's verydeep.

SPEAKER_02 (11:03):
Wait, stay stay right there, because I I feel
like you cut this into threeparts, which Rich, you know how
much I respect you as a man, abusiness partner, a friend.
But I said this on one of ourepisodes.
One of my greatest fears is thatI won't be a good father.
And I know that's rooted inbasically what we're gonna talk
about in this episode.
But you have a damn near ateenage son.

(11:26):
So I want to talk about raisinga son knowing that you felt what
you felt on behalf of you andyour brother when you were
younger.
Talk about that a little bitmore because I feel like that's
important.
There's probably anovercompensation that even comes
with raising your son and makingsure you get it right because
you don't have a properblueprint.
You never really were given one.

SPEAKER_00 (11:45):
Yeah, for me, that's a different overcompensation.
And um, if I'm being honest andtransparent and vulnerable,
there's a lot of guilt that Icarry um when it comes to the
relationship I have with my son.
And the reason being is that uhmy relationship with his mother
never worked out since he wasborn.
So he walked into a broken hometo no fault of his own, right?

(12:07):
So I have him on the weekends,I've had him on the weekends
since he was, you know, three,four days old.
We've been rocking everyweekend, and you know, he's 13
now.
But I feel guilt that I onlyhave him two days, right?
So I uh my time with him islimited.
And I never wanted that for mychild.
I just always thought that I wasgonna be with my children's mom.

(12:29):
We're gonna live happily everafter, and I was just gonna be
the best father I could be.
And unfortunately, for myfirstborn, it didn't work out
that way.
So I carry a lot of guilt that Iam doing more things for him
than my dad didn't do for me.
However, I feel I come up shortbecause it's not enough.

(12:50):
I feel like I could have donemore had me and his mom stayed
together.
But, you know, that's a storyand uh episode for another day.

SPEAKER_02 (12:59):
Yeah, no, I think it's all important because I was
gonna mention this earlier inthe episode, but I might as well
mention it now.
When you really think about thefather wound and young men
looking for a tribe or a villageor some sort of guidance
anywhere in the world, let alonethe internet.

(13:20):
What a time to be alive and toseek information that you didn't
have in your own household.
And typically we talk aboutfinances, we talk about women,
we talk about dating, we talkabout self-esteem.
All these subjects when I wasdoing my research for this
episode, all kind of funnel backto the same body of water that

(13:43):
is the father wound.
A lot of young men seeking tribeand male role models so they can
understand how to live, assumingthey didn't get it at home.
And that has created this wholesubcategory on the internet,
which you and I, Rich, and we'regoing back to phase one of our

(14:03):
business plan, was we were ableto identify man, it seems like a
lot of young guys are lookingfor information on many subjects
on being a man, anything thatfalls under that subject, but
they seem to be getting it froma lot of one-dimensional uh
characters online.
And not that we have anythingagainst those one-dimensional

(14:25):
characters.
I love all of those guys in thequote unquote male pocket of
self-development because I thinkthey're all contributing to the
part that they know best.
I can't shame Goggins for onlybeing the horse with the
blinders that wants to teachevery man a fuck pain, you gotta
push through it.
There are negatives that comewith that, but it is beneficial

(14:45):
to have a guy like that in yourphone that can speak to you when
you're at the gym or you'refeeling down on yourself.
Then you got guys like Joe Roganthat are into more of a
multifaceted, uh, otherworldlyview of bro culture, which is
like, man, get get into yourbody, get into fitness, get into
mixed martial arts, get intocomedy.
And then you got guys that areon the far other end, like

(15:08):
Andrew Tate, who are trying tohelp young guys understand, hey,
you don't always gotta be thevictim when it comes to being
with women.
You can work on yourself, youcan be the man.
He's teaching them this, likeit's not the best advice, but it
is giving them this like pridein being a guy that has his shit

(15:28):
together and the world shouldn'ttake advantage of you.
And whatever falls under thecategory of the world taking
advantage of you, that guy isfor men.
So that's where this huge bubbleof male influence came from.
And anybody else in thatsubcategory came from young men
looking for tribe, mentorship,guidance.

(15:51):
And why is that, Rich?
Because they didn't have it athome.

SPEAKER_00 (15:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:55):
And they didn't have it in their media community.
And that's what FailuresPodcast, we're just riding on
the wave of whatever thatconversation is about because we
too vicariously seek that fromone another.
And we were able to put it on apodcast and on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 (16:08):
Yeah, and I think, you know, when you grow up in a
broken home, naturally you'reyou're looking for different
pieces of content to be thatglue to stitch it back together.
And I think the the mostimportant thing that we want to
let our audience members,listeners know is just like just
because you grew up in thatbroken home doesn't mean that

(16:30):
that has to be the way you are,right?
Just because you potentially sawyour dad beating on your mom,
that doesn't by default make youa woman beater, right?
You know what I'm saying?
Like you could take all thenegative things that you grew up
with and the things that you sawand witnessed and experience,
and you can flip that into justknowing what not to do and you

(16:53):
know, just really shifting yourbrain into understanding that,
man, I saw, I witnessed allthese things growing up, and
this is exactly what I don'twant to be like.
Because I feel like you have twochoices when you grow up in a
broken home.
You can either emulate what yougrew up seeing, or you could
choose to do the opposite and dobetter than what you grew up

(17:14):
seeing.

SPEAKER_02 (17:15):
That's deep, man.
I did have a feeling that wewould rush as close to the brink
of vulnerability and tears inany episode, it would be this
episode.
Because I, Rich, just like you,I feel very strongly about this
episode because I'm conflictedin many ways about the hero that
is my father, but also the humanand flawed person that is my

(17:39):
father, my biological father.
And those who know me very wellknow that my stepfather came in
at a pivotal time in my life.
My mom remarried, and um, youknow, he was a different kind of
example for me, but almost atale of two stories very similar
to my father.
And my mom has a crazypropensity to go and find these

(18:00):
guys that are like I don't know,bro, you know, most of my
family, like they're justcharacters, they carry and
portray an image to the outsideworld, but in the private world,
they are very flawed.
And one thing that I can sayfrom a more vulnerable place,
Rich, is that not until my early30s I didn't get good at
understanding, man, every humanbeing comes with their flaws.

(18:24):
You know, like myself included,the the things that make me
unique and make people love meare also the things that can
ruin a lot of things for me, cansabotage a lot of good things I
have going.
That ego and pride that I haverunning through me that gets me
job promotions and gets menotoriety in my field and um

(18:45):
shit gets me attention withwomen is also the same thing
that has been responsible forruining a lot of the good things
I have.
So I say that before we get anyfurther, just to kind of give
forgiveness to any young man whois looking at this person that
was supposed to be a male rolemodel for them, or someone who
left them, or someone they havea conflicted relationship with.

(19:08):
The best thing that I was ableto do in my whole life, which is
a great lesson that I want toshare, is I was able to let go
of the coal that I was holdingin my hand that was burning me.
It was like this resentment andthis anger that I had, but it
wasn't affecting anybody elseother than me.
So what I did was I turned thatcoal into something that could

(19:30):
dump into a fire and and letthat let that fire light my like
trail forward.
And you know, it that might havebeen some of the best advice
that I was able to give myself,and I want to share that with
our community.
And there's something that Iwrote, Rich.
I hope it's cool, but I didwrite this once upon a time, and
I thought it'd be cool if Ishared it on this platform

(19:51):
because I I never thought toshare it, but I did write it
just as like something to givemyself the freedom to not have
to always think about thisproblem in my life or a problem
that I created in my life.

SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
Yeah, let's hear it, bro.

SPEAKER_02 (20:06):
A man's mission is rarely just about what he's
building, it's about what he'srepairing.
The absent father, the criticalfather, the abusive father, they
all leave a void that becomesthe engine, the engine of
ambition.
This is the engine of myambition.
So how dare I be upset at theman who gave me the fuel that

(20:29):
lights my fire that has createdall the success in my world?
We tell ourselves we're chasingsuccess, but often we're just
chasing validation from a manwho may never give it.
The greatest achievers that Iadmire, Dame Dash, Mike Tyson,
Kobe Bryant, Elon Musk, SteveJobs, they have a secret.

(20:51):
They weren't just driven solelyby their passion.
It's a secret that I've alwaysknown.
I never like sharing it withpeople because I too can see
someone that is broken.
And part of being broken comesfrom coming from a household
that's broken.
And I know that those guys Inamed, they're all driven by the
need to prove that they wereworth showing up for.

(21:14):
And sometimes the man that youwant to show up for you most
doesn't show up.
So you raise hell and youconquer so much land that you
hope that at some point you canstand at the highest mountain
and that man can see you.
And until that man realizesthis, and that man is you,

(21:35):
you're building a momentum andyou're chasing a ghost.
You have to realize that chasingthat ghost is not worth it.
Just stop chasing the ghost andstart doing it for yourself.
Let it go and start movingforward.
Because whatever blessings areforward are probably gonna come
from the ghosts that haunt youfrom your past.

(21:56):
Damn.

SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
That's that's crazy perspective right there, bro.
I I love it.

SPEAKER_02 (22:00):
I wrote that during the pandemic.

SPEAKER_00 (22:02):
I I love that.

SPEAKER_02 (22:03):
You didn't know I was gonna do that to you.

SPEAKER_00 (22:04):
You didn't know You almost left me speechless.
Man, you you know what thatreminded me of?
Like, and I think you touched onit a bit.
I think everyone always loves uha sort of redemption story.
And for a long time, bro,growing up, I really felt like
my father was sort of gonna cometo his senses.
And he did resurface when I waslike 18, 19, and I was going to

(22:27):
college.
And I was excited because I'mlike, damn, because he
specifically asked for me.
Like he he was um, he was intown, he was at my aunt's house,
and he called my mom and hesaid, Hey, I want to see uh
Rich.
Um, can you have him come over?
And it was a couple blocks away.
And and I was excited.
I was like, man, I think this isa redemption story where my
father's just gonna admit hisfaults and you know explain why

(22:49):
he was absent uh for most of mylife.
You're holding that coal.
I was holding that coal, yeah,and I was so ready to forgive
him, bro.
I was like, no, this is great.
He'll be involved in in thesecond half of my life.
This is gonna be wonderful,right?
So I get to my aunt's house, andmaybe five minutes into the
conversation, he goes, Hey, uh,tell me the truth.

(23:14):
How many girls are you sleepingwith now?
Oh, bro.
And my heart just sunk to mystomach because I was like,
damn, bro, not like how'scollege going?
Um, how's your health?
How's the family?
How are you feeling?
How's life been?
Like, you're worried about my mybody count, like, like how many

(23:38):
girls I'm sleeping with?
Like, in Spanish, it's calledSinbergüenza, bro.
It's like he was always thatguy.
Like, I think that was his wayof deflecting an uncomfortable
conversation with humor andmaybe a little bit of comedy on
sin vergüenceria, but like itdidn't land, bro.
And that moment, I just rememberregistering it, like, damn, bro,
this dude's never gonna change,bro.

SPEAKER_02 (23:59):
I've never seen your father, Rich, and I'm curious
because for those that know andare from the Northeast or
Caribbean, typically Dominicans,not all of them, obviously.
Latinos, we're all fucking, wecome in all shades, but usually
darker skinned.
Uh, you don't look like theaverage Dominican.
Did you come out looking likeyour mom or your dad?
Because I feel like he was apretty boy, and that's why he
asked you that question.

(24:19):
Because a lot of his identityprobably comes from being like a
fly guy.

SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yes, bro.
He gave me his email one timeand it was like Jigolo Bigelow
69.
I was like, nah.
I wish I was lying.

SPEAKER_01 (24:35):
If you want to email Richard's father, email him at
my fucking gigolo the meal athotmail.com.

SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Hotmail, yeah.
He had the hotmail, bro.
I wish I was joking, Jess.
I wish I was joking, bro.
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (24:48):
So he's a pretty, he's a pretty guy.
He just had he did he have yourfeatures or you got your mom's
features?

SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, a little bit of both,but yeah, just like young,
handsome guy.
He was in the military back inthe Dominican Republic.
So anybody in any sort of likelaw enforcement was uh really
sought after back in the 70s and80s.
So he was a pretty boy, youknow, and he um very, very much
liked women.
And and that that was what hewas into, and that was what he

(25:16):
felt was important to him, whatmade him a man.
So I think he tried to connectwith me on that level, and I
think at 19 years old, hethought, like, oh, this is a
conversation that I could havewith my son.
What he failed to realize islike, bro, we're not even there
yet.
Like, we don't have arelationship.
How do you think I'm gonna feelcomfortable talking to you about
something that personal?
Crazy.
Nah, he's wild, bro.

SPEAKER_01 (25:36):
Yeah, he's wild.

SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
He's wild.

SPEAKER_02 (25:37):
By the way, he's he's insanely immature.
That's that's that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 (25:41):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (25:42):
Yeah, I want you to finish your point because I do
want to get to the portion oflike the community and what they
had to say, and I want to givethese guys some advice.

SPEAKER_00 (25:49):
Yeah, no, I I was just gonna end it with that was
the last time I ever spoke to myfather.
And I'm 37 years old.
Wow.
Wait, wait, how many years hasit been?
Uh 17, 18.
Yeah, at least.
Wow.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (26:02):
By the way, we're not gonna get into actionable
advice on this episode, eventhough we typically try to do
that on every episode to giveour community something tangible
to walk away with that theycould start practicing today.
But I think, Rich, we could justspeak on our personal
situations.
Uh, we should speak on what thecommunity had to say.
And I do want to get into someactual research from a few

(26:23):
research papers from crediblesources that I was able to pull
on what is the most typicalthings that come out of young
men that go through thesesituations.
And we can kind of speak to somesolutions there.
But the one thing you made methink of was the hot coal.
We keep using this phrase,right?
What was it about that lastconversation that allowed you
to, I don't know, are youforgiving him when you when you

(26:45):
release the coal or are youforgiving yourself?
Unpack that a little bit and Iguess contextualize it in a way
for like a younger guy that'slistening that may still carry
that resentment and hope thattheir father could see them and
and approve of them or anythinglike that.

SPEAKER_00 (26:58):
Yeah, that that's a great question.
And I I think for a long time Ifelt like, you know, exactly
what you said earlier, where Ifelt like I wanted that
validation.
I seek that acceptance from himand and that like, hey, do you
care right from him?
And it wasn't until thatconversation with him when I was
19 years old that I realized,well, wait a minute, this this

(27:20):
man is never gonna change.
Like he is who he is.
Like he's crazy.
If we're gonna give him kudosabout anything, is that man,
this man is consistently him,you know what I mean?
Like just consistently won'twait.
So that was such a pivotalmoment where it made me realize,
like, bro, he's not gonnachange.
The one that needs to change isme.
I need to reframe the way I viewthis relationship, the way I

(27:42):
view this man.
And ultimately, yes, I did cometo a place of acceptance and
forgiveness because the way Iframed it in my head, bro, is
like I'm I almost thought of itas like a mental illness.
You know, he he was he wasimmature, he wasn't ready to be
a father, he doesn't know thepersonality and characteristics
and tenacity that it takes to bea father.

(28:04):
Just because you like put yourseed in a woman and that woman
births a child doesn't make youa father.
You have to know how to be afather, be present, contribute
in that child's life.
There was a lot of things thathe was missing.
And for me to try to hope thathe would eventually get there
was like false hope.

(28:24):
I had to reframe how I viewedhim as a person and how I healed
that wound that was, you know,that father wound.

SPEAKER_02 (28:33):
That summary is great, Rich.
And I relate to that one a lotbecause even though my father
was very much around when I waspre-14, at 14 him and my mom
broke up.
That's one thing that I learnedin my 30s, and definitely during
the pandemic, that was huge forme.
Because I had enough time tothink about it, and I had enough
time as an adult to hang outwith my father as an adult.

(28:57):
And I started seeing a lot ofthis uh arrested development is
probably the best way that Icould put it.
Unfortunate for him, but butfortunate for me, the way this
evolution shit works is like thepicture of the ape that is in
its most primitive form, and iteventually evolves into a man.

(29:19):
Uh someone standing upright,shoulders back, walking on two
feet.
And I think that's just anatural progression for families
that come from lower incomeareas or families that come from
immigrant families or familiesthat were honestly fucked up by
drugs or anything that thatstumped the evolution and the
growth of our last name.

(29:41):
And anybody watching this, yourlast name.
And I part of the letting go ofthe coal that was burning my
hand, which was the validation Iwanted for my father, was
realizing man, I should onlyjudge him based on the
resources, information, andeducation that he had.
Growing up in New York, in NewJersey, in the 70s, when he

(30:07):
didn't have all the informationI had.
And I might be able to arguethat he put me in a position to
be the man I am today, but hewasn't around to teach me what I
was able to learn.
And maybe that's me coping withmy situation, but it helped me
look at him in a different lightand almost see him as a young

(30:27):
man and less as my father.
I almost saw him like the way mygrandmother would see him versus
the way I saw him as a dad.
And even to this day, it helpsme understand the relationship
that I have with my father.
Because it's like certainsubjects he's gonna thrive in
and he's gonna lead me as aparent would.
And then certain subjects, it'sfucked up to say, but it's part

(30:47):
of maturing.
You develop an education beyondthe guy who gave birth to you.
So you're just like, oh, youdon't even understand what I'm
talking about, and that's okay.
And I think that courtesy ispart of how I've gotten to
develop a better relationshipwith my idea of my father.
Because sorry to be long-winded,Rich, but to me, the goal isn't
to hate your father, it's tobecome the man he never taught

(31:10):
you to be.
So I just decided I need to stopwasting valuable energy fighting
old demons, and I just startedbuilding from a clean page, you
know, like a dry erase board.
I just erased everything and I'mcreating a new legacy, something
that I'm proud of.
And, you know, what's thealternative?
I gotta live in my past and thenpotentially pass those wounds

(31:32):
forward to my children, to myfuture son.
I can't imagine that.
So the best thing for me to dowas just give it a clean slate
and start fresh.
And for those that don't know,that's why I love the name
Justin Duran Duran, because I'mI'm two times my last name
because I believe that I can dotwo times more for my family and

(31:55):
my last name than anyone whocame before me was able to do.
And you know, that's a productof my situation, the the
fortunate situation I was putin.

SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
That's amazing, bro.
And I I feel like you only havethat perspective when you're in
your 30s and you're a little bitolder and you're paying bills
and you're paying rent, andyou're like, damn, this adulting
thing is not that easy.
And you kind of like true, bro,look at your parents and you're
like, damn, how did they haveit?
I did that with my mom, where Ikind of like was very critical
about my upbringing.

(32:24):
And then it wasn't until I hitmy 30s that I was like, damn,
but hold on.
This woman raised three boys byherself.
Yeah, this woman had me at 16years old by herself.
Like, and then I was like, thenI grew an appreciation for like,
damn, like we we really got itout of the mud.
But yeah, I think that's aperspective that you only have

(32:46):
once you get older.
And there's something that youtold me a while back.
I don't know if you rememberthis story, but you said to me
one time, like, man, it's crazyhow when you look back at your
parents and they're no longerthat superhero that you once saw
them as, you sort of like losenot respect for them, but the

(33:06):
magic that made your pops yourhero and your mentor.
You have to look at them in adifferent light.
Cause now you're a man yourself,and you're like, nah, bro, you
you you could have done more,you could have done better, you
know?

SPEAKER_02 (33:19):
Like, so I have uh and I remember exactly when I
told you that it was during thepandemic.

SPEAKER_00 (33:24):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
Quick story.
Uh, we will get back to thelessons.
Lesson number one was to let goof the coal.
In order to move forward, youhave to forgive yourself and you
have to forgive your father.
I think that's number one.
Because holding the coal is onlygonna burn you.
He obviously chose to takewhatever actions he took that
led you to the head space thatyou're in.

(33:45):
And you can't put your feelingsinto your father's brain and
assume that he's automaticallygonna know what you're thinking.
So part of letting go of thecoal is that it doesn't burn
anybody else, it just burns youthe longer you hold on to it.
So whether it's vengeance,spite, approval, just drop it.
Start from a clean slate.
That's definitely lesson numberone.
And we'll get into lesson numbertwo in a little bit because I

(34:06):
have some ideas on how we canhelp these guys.
But before we get into that, Ido want to share a quick story.
I give the fast version becausethis story is actually fucking
hilarious.
So during the pandemic, I was uhworking at the record label that
I was at before where I'm atnow, and uh I was probably
working with one of the biggestartists in the world, period.
There's no other way I could putit.
And this artist was probably onmy bucket list for the whole

(34:31):
time I was at this label.
And again, those that arelistening, I don't enjoy
mentioning my artists because Idon't think it's fair to them.
But if you know who I am, you'llput the pieces together.
I finally got the project, Rich.
During the pandemic, they didsome reshuffling in the company
I was in.
It was the crown jewel of thelabel that I was at.
And I have done enough good workuntil that moment that they were
like, you know what, Justin, youdeserve an opportunity to work

(34:54):
the biggest project in thebuilding.
And if you know me, you know I'ma sicko.
Like, this is I have this shitwritten down in notebooks, I
have this in my journal.
Like, this is some life goalshit.
And I remember taking my secondmeeting with the entire
management team for this artistand the whole global staff of
the company that I was at andthe domestic staff of the label

(35:16):
that I work for.
So that's three entities of 20plus people on one Zoom call.
And if you remember during thepandemic, everything was on
Zoom.
So we're talking about over atleast 100 people on one call.
And I'm the project manager, Ioversee the marketing strategy.
So I had to sit with managementprior to the call and then
present the strategy to a globalstaff.

(35:38):
I'm talking about people on thechat were translating what I was
saying in other languages justso other countries could
understand the like thestrategy.
This is how like major this was.
Anyway, long story short, myfather at the same time was
trying to figure out hisunemployment and how to live at

(36:01):
home during the pandemic becausehe wasn't used to it.
So he was coming to me for a lotof like unemployment processing
information online because youcouldn't go to the physical
location.
So I was helping, I got himWi-Fi, I bought him a laptop, I
was helping him get his login.
But if you again, if you know mybiological father, he's a
fucking demon.
Like when he gets upset, it'svery intense.

(36:21):
And immediately, if you don'tsolve it, you're the worst
person in the world.
So this is happening while I'mmanaging the biggest project of
my life.
So it's 11 a.m.
East Coast time.
I'm back in Jersey.
I'm living in a condo inEdgewater.
And uh, bro, I'm feeling myself.
I'm so happy, I'm prepared.

(36:42):
I get on the Zoom, I open up thecall, nice little joke, start
putting my little agendatogether.
And at this time, my iMessage onmy laptop was connected to my
phone.
So this man was FaceTimeaudioing like every five minutes
while I'm on the call.
So if you know how Zoom works,if the FaceTime audio comes in,

(37:03):
it cuts off your camera.
So imagine the knot that is inmy stomach, because I'm like
hosting the biggest call of mylife with over a hundred people
on it, and my father'sFaceTiming me over and over and
over, and I'm and I'm hittingreject.
But at some point I'm startingto get worried.
I'm like, maybe hopefully he'sgood.

SPEAKER_00 (37:24):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
So I text him, Pop, you good?
He's text me, pick up thefucking phone.
Like, okay, he's obviously okay.
So I get back on the call, andone of the biggest artist
managers in the world is like,hey, is everything okay?
You keep cutting out of thecall.
And at this point, I'm soworried that I'm like, guys, I'm

(37:45):
sorry, but my father isFaceTiming me over and over.
And I don't know if he's goodbecause it's during the
pandemic, and COVID was still abig issue.
So the manager and the artistswere on the call were very
generous.
They were like, no, no, takecare of that.
Like everybody was verysensitive of the climate.
Rich, I swear to you, I get tothe other line, I pick up the

(38:06):
FaceTime audio.
The first thing this dude saysis, yo, who the fuck you think
you are?
The president?
Why are you so hard to get incontact with?
My response.
Pop, I'm working.
I told you from 8 a.m.
to 6 p.m., I'm working.
He's like, How are you working?
If you're at home, I'm like,that's neither here nor there.
What do you need?

(38:26):
He's like, yo, I can't find myNetflix password that you made
for me.
Can you send it to me?
Oh man.
So, mind you, that happens.
I get back on the call.
I actually share the joke withthe management team and the
whole staff.
Bro, they were crying oflaughter.
They obviously related.
I end that call.

(38:47):
I'm fucking hot.
I'm tight.
I vented in my brother, ventedto my mom.
I realized at some point, like,yo, I probably should talk to
somebody about this.
The label that I was working forhad uh these packages, like five
free therapy sessions during thepandemic for people that were
going through a lot.
So I was like, fuck it, why not?
I've never done therapy in mylife.

(39:08):
And this is gonna get intoactionable advice.
I start doing therapy over Zoomto like talk about anything.
So the first thing we talk aboutis my father.
We get into it.
Rich, I did not realize how muchI had on my chest about this
father wound.

(39:29):
And my therapist immediately gotto it.
She started unpacking it,chipping away at it.
So it was actually reallyhelpful by I would say by
session number three.
So she's like, Why are you soangry about the password thing?
And I'm venting, venting,venting.
And she goes, Did it ever occurto you, Justin, that your father

(39:50):
is as normal as any person inthe world, and you put him on a
pedestal?
Because at some point in yourchildhood development, every
young boy holds their father tothis status and this hero idea
in their mind that they don'teven deserve.

(40:10):
Damn.
Fuck me up.

SPEAKER_00 (40:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
So I go, I never thought of that.
She goes, he's as fallible asany human being on the planet,
Justin.
And if you tell me about how hewas raised and how he dropped
out of school in the eighthgrade to run around in the
streets and make money for yourfamily, chances are something
like a login for unemployment ora login for Netflix is very

(40:33):
intimidating to him because he'sonly used to handling things
through aggressive confrontationand physicality.
And he's intimidated.
He himself is a young boy that'scrying for help because he
doesn't know how to manage hisown anger.
So, Justin, what you and yourbrother have is an issue.
And that issue is called falseidols.

(40:55):
When you put your idols onpedestals, you're guaranteed for
disappointment because they areas fallible as anybody else.
That goes for your mom, yourdad, even your heroes online,
even the people that you look upto on the internet, all these
gurus you look up to,everybody's fallible.
So you put yourself in a fuckedup spot when you put false idols

(41:18):
on a pedestal because they'reonly going to fall from grace
because they're human.
And that, my friends, is lessonnumber two.
The false idol syndrome we getfrom being young people that
idolize people we literally lookup to.
So you have to take your motherand your father off a pedestal
because they don't deserve to beon a pedestal.
They're normal people just likeme and you.

SPEAKER_00 (41:39):
Damn, bro.
That that's an incredible story.

SPEAKER_02 (41:42):
Do you feel you suffer from that?
Like there's this idea that youhad of your dad that was
disappointed when you finallylearned who he was?

SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, you know, I'll sharesomething even a little bit more
recent that still affected mebecause I think, you know, like
I said earlier in the show inthe beginning, it's like this is
it, this father wound is aband-aid that you a big fucking
band-aid that you put over thatwound, right?
And you you, you know, you yougo through, like I said, you go

(42:11):
through the three phases, you gothrough anger, grief, and then
acceptance, and then ultimatelyyou reshape your mind to view
this relationship in a differentway that either doesn't affect
you as much or it's prettypretty buried underneath the
layers of who you are.
But I remember not too long ago,bro, five years ago, I was 32
years old.

(42:31):
I had closed on my house, right?
I was 32, I closed on my house,and I'm driving by myself.
I just went to Home Depot topick up some like supplies to
just paint, and I was so excitedto do all this home improvement
stuff in my new home.
And I remember thinking tomyself, damn, if my father only

(42:53):
saw like what I've justaccomplished, would he be proud?
I asked myself that question.
Bro, I fucking cried from HomeDepot all the way to my crib,
bro.
That's deep, bro.
Like tears, uncontrollabletears.
And then, you know, I pickedmyself up, gathered myself, put

(43:14):
myself back together.
But prior to that moment, Ithought, like, nah, bro, my pops
have hasn't been around.
I haven't spoken to him in over15 years.
You know, he's living his life,I'm living my life, bro.
I'm good.
Like, I don't need my pops.
I figured out how to be a man onmy own.
So I thought I was straight.
And then I had this one momentwhere like I just wanted a male

(43:36):
father figure to be like, yo, Isee you.
I'm proud of you.
And I didn't have that.
And I was like, damn, that shitcrushed me.
So, man, this might be somethingwhere you just live your entire
life with this wound.
You know what I mean?
It might never be, you know, youmight have stitched it up, and

(43:57):
but a little moment, a littlereflection could rip that bitch
back up.
You know what I'm saying?
And and and it still hurts.
So I say that to say it'simportant to navigate these
emotions when you think aboutthis wound.
Because it's it's inevitablygoing to reappear, right?
It's gonna come up, you're gonnafeel that void consistently.

(44:20):
And you just have to remindyourself, like, man, that's a
chapter in my life where I mighthave never figured out exactly
what it was supposed to be, asfar as like the relationship I
was supposed to have with them.
But we're good, we're movingforward, we're progressing.
And um, yeah, I just wanted toshare that story because I'm
like, No, no, Rich, I'm lettingyou speak because that shit is

(44:41):
deep, bro.

SPEAKER_02 (44:42):
Yeah, that's deep.
You kind of went through it.
I mean, again, for those thatdon't don't know Rich and I have
been friends forever.
As you can tell by episode,whatever we're on, we're we're
10 plus in, Justin, way morecolorful, fucking loud, could be
obnoxious to those who may ormay not enjoy my energy.
Rich, a little bit more stoic, alittle bit more straight faced.

(45:03):
But when Rich opens up aboutsomething, it's usually quick in
and out, but there's a lot to besaid and unpacked.
And I don't want to brush pastthat moment.
That made me emotional thinkingabout that accomplishment in
your life.
And isn't that insane howinstinctually you're just
looking for?
You said the story about yourdaughter that she looks back
when she walks to see if she'sdoing it right.

(45:25):
We are genetically wired to lookfor that validation from our
creators, the people who put uson the planet.
But something about closing ahome, why do you think your
father came to mind immediately?

SPEAKER_00 (45:35):
Because, you know, to me, it was a big life moment,
right?
It's one of those things where,like, when you first become a
father, when you first buy yourfirst home, when you land that
that big job opportunity, likemy mom was always there for all
those moments.
But it was something about likepurchasing a home that I was
like, yeah, I'm a man now.
And then I wanted to turn andlook over my pops to be like,

(45:59):
yo, am I doing it?
Like, am I the guy?
Like, am I doing am I doing theright things?
Did I make you proud?

SPEAKER_02 (46:05):
Did I make you proud?

SPEAKER_00 (46:07):
Did I make you proud?
That's that's all I wanted.
And I didn't have it in thatmoment.
And you know, it made meemotional and um and I had to
regroup.
But I I I share that because,like, bro, honestly, I can't
give you actionable advice.
These are the top five thingsyou need to do to change your
perspective.
It's like I can only give you mystory in the hopes that you know

(46:30):
you can extract some experienceout of uh out of my story and
and and in hopes that you knowif you could relate, you kind of
know how to how to mend and howto navigate these different
emotions that are naturallygoing to come in and out of your
life.

SPEAKER_02 (46:46):
Rich, there's something that I was able to
pull from the research that Idid.
And this one you can definitelyconfirm with any LLM, but I
wanted to share this with youbecause I believe this will lead
us into some more lessons andpotential advice for our
community because I feel likethis hits right on the head of

(47:08):
who we're talking to in thisepisode, ourselves included.
So, what I was able to find isresearch shows that father
absence correlates with identitystruggles.
So boys grow up without areliable blueprint for manhood.
What happens and what theresearch shows is over 40 years

(47:28):
of data, the gap often reappearslater as anger, social
isolation, overcompensation,perfectionism, people pleasing,
and emotional numbness.
And the three categories itaffects the most is work stress,

(47:50):
romantic stress, and family, theones that are around for you.
Of all that that I said, whichstood out the most to you?
Because this feels right.
This feels like the dirty littlesecret about growing up with the
father wound is how it affectsyoung men in their late teens
and their early 20s, andobviously for the rest of their

(48:12):
lives that they don't addressit.

SPEAKER_00 (48:14):
Yeah, if I could pick just one of those, I would
say anger number one.
I was an angry young man for avery, very long time.
And I always blamed it on myupbringing, on my father, on my
absent father, on mycircumstances.
And it took a very long time forme to reframe that anger and

(48:35):
turn it into a little bit moreuh positive, actionable
momentum.
But I feel like that anger, bro,if if if you're someone out
there who's holding on to theanger of an absent father, that
can only lead you to a road ofnegativity and unwanted
obstructions and obstacles.

(48:55):
I oftentimes think of someonewho's like incarcerated, like a
young man who's incarcerated.
Like, bro, I'm positive if youdo, if you do a poll of uh a
hundred men who areincarcerated, ask them how many
had their pops in their life.
It's gonna be a fraction, right?
That's how important a fatherfigure is to a young man, right?

(49:15):
It's it's it's your mentor, it'syour your guidance into this
harsh, difficult world.
And, you know, even my own sonsometimes asks me, like, damn,
dad, like why are you so hard onme?
Like, I feel like you'resometimes he says that I ride
him a lot.
And I'm like, I promise you,son, the world is a lot harsher
than what you think I'm being toyou right now.

(49:36):
Anger.

SPEAKER_02 (49:37):
Anger.
Huge.
You know, you've mentioned thata few times on this show that
you were an angry young man.
Do you remember like likecertain, now that you can look
back, do you remember certainincidents or moments where you
were in full rage mode and youcan identify and say, nah, that
was correlated to the anger Ihad for my father?

SPEAKER_00 (49:56):
Yeah, bro, even seeing my mom like dating men,
right?
Like, I I would always be like,nah, that's not my father.
Like, whoever you bring to thishouse that isn't my pops is not
my father.
So I don't want to see them, Idon't want to meet them.
Like, it was just that thatanger in me that that I carried
for a really long time.

SPEAKER_02 (50:14):
What would be your advice to a maybe like a teenage
man right now that I like theprison stat and I I do believe
that's true.
What is your advice to someoneto not allow that anger to drive
them?

SPEAKER_00 (50:27):
Bro, for forgiveness, acceptance, and and
you you constantly say this on acouple different episodes.
It's just the victim mentality,bro.
Like you have to reframe yourmind to not view yourself as a
victim.
If your pops is not around, ifhe made the choice to leave,
that does not make you a victim.

(50:47):
Reframe your mind and yourperspective to be like, all
right, I'm going to bedifferent.
I'm going to be a different man.
I'm going to be a differentfather.
I'm going to be a differenttribe member to my family,
opposite of what my father wasto me.

SPEAKER_02 (51:06):
That's really good.
You know, the reframe yourvictim mentality is important.
And I feel like it that comes upin a lot of episodes.
And I can truly be like UncleJustin, annoyed by young people,
young men.
And I always say, bro, you'renot a fucking victim.
Stop.
I actually do find in a lot ofthese more serious subjects that

(51:26):
we talk about that people areactual victims.
And this is one of them.
But what you're saying isreframe your victim mentality.
It doesn't mean that you're nota victim.
It means that there's nothingpositive to be gained by playing
that role your whole lifebecause nothing good will come
from it.
Even though it's true, it's trueto play the victim, but to be

(51:48):
the victim is different.

SPEAKER_00 (51:50):
Yeah.
Think about how much controlyou're giving your absent father
from carrying that angerthroughout your life.
Like that dude is not losingsleep, right?
He's out doing whatever he'sdoing.
He's obviously not present inyour life, but you're the one
carrying the burden of angertowards someone that's not

(52:12):
reciprocating any energy towardsyou.
Yeah.
It's a waste of time, it's awaste of energy.
And, you know, I'm almosthesitant to say don't be angry.
I feel like you have to beangry.
You have to accept that anger.
Well, could you have toldyourself that when you were that
age?
Don't be angry.
Well, that's why I'm I'mreframing it.

(52:35):
Start with anger, right?
Because your situation isobviously not a desired
situation, and you had nocontrol over that.
So it's okay to be angry.
But find little ways to start toforgive and accept your
situation and understand thatyou're not the victim and you're

(52:56):
going to do better.
You're going to be a better man.
You're going to be a betterfather.
So yeah, being angry is not badto begin with, but staying angry
for your entire life that yourpops wasn't around, that to me
is dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 (53:10):
Rich, I have a uh tweet that I wanted to run by
you.
I want to know your reaction toit because I think it's right in
line with what we're talkingabout here.
When someone shows you what notto do or who not to be, pay
close attention.
There's a pain-free lesson to belearned.
That one right there resonateswith me because I think that of
a lot of my upbringing, a lot ofmy upbringing was very dark and

(53:32):
violent.
When I close my eyes, I can seesome crazy shit about how I grew
up.
And a reframe that is in linewith what you just said and
something I live by is thatquote right there.
When someone shows you what notto do, pay close attention
because there's a pain-freelesson to be learned.
Meaning the world around you andthe people around you could not

(53:55):
be living ideally or could beliving fucked up.
But if you pay close attention,you don't have to replicate what
it is that they're doing.
You can actually do the oppositeand learn from it.
That's what failures is allabout.
But I feel like that's reallyimportant in this situation
because you know that pain.
And you would never let your songo through that because you've

(54:16):
used that pain as a way toreverse it and allow yourself to
be a better man, be a betterfather.

SPEAKER_00 (54:22):
Yeah.
And listen, bro, I forgive myfather.
Had I not gone through thisexperience, I wouldn't be the
person that I am today withthese scars and these wounds and
these, like, okay, here's how Ican tweak things with raising my
own son.
Maybe had he been around alittle bit more, I would have
picked up different traits thatI would have instilled in my son

(54:44):
that I wouldn't have wanted to.
So, man, I I really don't seemyself as the victim.
I think it's an unfortunatesituation that my dad chose not
to be a part of my life.
I'm doing very well for myself,but I forgive him.
You know, for whatever he wentthrough, the reasons he left,
the reasons he choose to livehis life a certain way, I

(55:04):
forgive him.
But I don't forget, right?
I don't forget that you wereabsent.
But I do respect my experienceand how it's shaped me.

SPEAKER_02 (55:18):
I want to recap on the lessons because I've been
writing them down, but theconversation's been so naturally
flowing, I don't want tointerrupt.
But yeah, a few lessons for thefather womb was lesson number
one, let go of the coal, forgivehim and start fresh.
Lesson number two, beware offalse idols.
Lesson number three, the woundwill never fully heal.

(55:42):
And that's okay.
Move on.
Lesson number four, don't letanger drive you.
You have to reframe your victimmentality.
Rule number five, Rich, what youjust touched on, is forgive but
don't forget.
Don't ignore the free lessonthat life is giving you.
We'll call it the reverselesson.

(56:04):
Don't repeat the problem or thepain that you went through, and
don't put that on your childrenor people in your life.
And that's the next portion ofthe conversation I want to get
to, Rich, because I'm seeing itin the research, and I know how
it's affected my dating life andthe lack of trust I have towards
women and my overcompensationand my I do have an anger and

(56:24):
aggression towards everyone,honestly.
And it doesn't help that I'mfive foot seven, I got a broken
family, my father was in andout.
That I'm a fucking cocktail tobe like a professional boxer or
or like someone that conquersunknown lands.
Most of the people I idolize arepeople that overcompensate.

(56:45):
So talk a little bit about howthe the father wound affects
raising your son, but alsorelationships and and like how
you've been able to like correctthat a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 (56:55):
Yeah, I mean, it it certainly has hardened me, maybe
a little bit too much.

SPEAKER_02 (57:00):
I think is this a complaint you get a lot from
your girl?
Yeah, me too, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:06):
Yeah, like this is what has naturally made me
stoic, bro, because I made apromise to myself a long time
ago that I would not let myfather or my circumstances
affect me or break me to thepoint where I feel like I can't
move forward.
And that's why I do carry myselfwith this stoic demeanor because
I feel like I have to accept thefact that there might be more

(57:29):
bumps and bruises, and I'm goingto receive more scars in life,
right?
So if if there's listen, ifthere's anyone that can get beat
down a little bit more, it'll beme.

SPEAKER_02 (57:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:39):
And and that's the benefit of like having that
father womb, bro.

SPEAKER_02 (57:43):
There is a phrase, it's uh the bigger the dragon,
the better the story.
And I changed that phrase alittle bit because my childhood
was a little darker than adragon.
So the quote that I live by, andit's literally what you just
said, is the scarier the demon,the bigger the doubt monster,
the better the hero story.

(58:06):
And I believe that that's whyyou and I feel so confident
about putting this platformtogether.
Is because I believe that evenin our mid-30s and late 30s, we
believe that from this pointforward, if we continue to do
what we've already done to gethere, we can help other young
men conquer that dragon, thatdemon, that doubt monster.

(58:31):
So it's almost like a w reallyweird positive lens to look at
not growing up with a consistentfather figure.
Is that you learn to deal withlife by playing the cards that
are already put in front of you,and then you just move forward.
And I agree with you.
I think a lot of myrelationships have suffered

(58:52):
because of that, but I am theman today because I've been
constantly done the work tounderstand why I am the way I am
and try to improve as I moveforward.
I do apologize to every womanthat suffered the wrath of me
being a broken person, a brokenman, but I'd like to believe at
39 I'm getting it right.
And this relationship will reapall the rewards of all the work

(59:15):
that I've done on myself.
And that comes with forgiving myfather for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (59:19):
Yeah.
And this is the byproduct of allthose tweaks, right?
Therapy, uh, mendingrelationships, forgiveness that
you've made throughout the yearsto get to this point where you
can self-reflect and be like,I'm not even mad at my dad.
Like, had I not gone throughthose experiences, I it wouldn't

(59:39):
have shaped the man that I amtoday.

SPEAKER_02 (59:42):
Rich, there was a category that I don't think you
and I fall into, but we have todiscuss it is um people
pleasing.
This is one of the biggercategories that a lot of people
in our community touched on.
The lack of a father figureturned them into.
For the lack of a better word,almost like a mama's boy,
someone that lives to keep theirmother happy so they don't

(01:00:06):
repeat the same problems thattheir father created in their
lives.
And part of being the mama's boycomes with this people-pleasing
energy that comes to womanpleasing, and you want to do
everything for a woman.
How do we feel about that as itrelates to the father wound?
Because that's a big one.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:22):
I think that's probably a self-identity issue
where you feel abandoned by yourfather.
So you naturally look to youronly parent that's left, which
is your mom, and you're like,damn, I don't want to be
abandoned by this person too.
Let me overcompensate myrelationship with my mother to
make sure I don't lose her aswell.

(01:00:42):
And that's a very that's also avery dangerous path to go down.
And because then, like you said,you become a people pleaser,
you're overcompensating, youbecome a mama's boy.
And I think that trickles intoyour uh adulthood, and women
pick up on that very easily too.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:58):
You know, there was an episode we did, it was
probably two episodes ago.
The the Russian guy who hisfather passed away early, and he
wound up basically being somesort of pseudo-father in his
mother's life and helped raisehis brothers and sisters and
took care of his mother.
But I think that's the perfectexample of what this
people-pleaser mama's boy thingthat comes from your father not

(01:01:22):
being around.
And you know, it's tough to kicka guy that's in this situation
while he's down, but what I cansay without being negative or
being too fucked up, which thisis not the episode for, but
click around, we got some moremotivational advice for you that
is not so you know heartfelt.
I don't think it benefitsanybody that you're a people

(01:01:44):
pleaser and you're someonethat's constantly living to keep
all the women happy because yourdad wasn't around.
It doesn't benefit anyone.
It does benefit you to have ahealthy balance between what a
positive male role model shouldbe and someone that can allow
someone else to do what theyneed to do in order to find
their peace.

(01:02:05):
But overcompensating and tryingto be everybody's hero is not
going to fix the situation.
And it's definitely not going tohelp you in the long run.
So that's advice I would give tosomebody that is under that
category of a people pleaser ora mama's boy that is trying to
overcompensate for their fathernot being around.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:21):
Yeah, I I love that.
And yeah, I think that'll be agood way to close.
I think we've sort of touched onthe the three different lenses
that you could view the thefather womb, right?
The first one is um your fatherbeing present, but uh a little
absent in some of the the waysyou would want him to be

(01:02:43):
present.
My experience, which was justcompletely absent father um
feeling abandonment.
And three would be, you know,like you said, the mama's boy,
the the guy who feels like heneeds to overcompensate because
his father's not around andmaybe his mom feels lonely and
he feels like he needs to fillthat void of that male father

(01:03:04):
figure in the home.
But naturally you turn into amama's boy, right?
And yeah, that that's also notnot a good way to carry out your
life.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:13):
Before we go, I do want to touch on the mama boy
thing a little bit more becausewhat I was seeing was people
trying to help out these youngguys online, and I found a
little trapdoor that seems to beprofiting other people that is
exploiting a lot of these guysthat are in this situation.
And I just want to call it out.
There are two categories onlinethat seem to be exploiting young

(01:03:35):
men who have the father woundand are looking for male
guidance, male mentorship.
One of them is guys that haveplatforms like we're creating,
and they're selling these hocuspocus bullshit prescriptions to
immediately cure their livesovernight.
And I want to call that outbecause this is fucked up.

(01:03:57):
This is like selling a pill tosomebody that is physically
handicapped and they can't doanything about not being able to
move a body part and exploitingthe need that the necessities'
lives that a lot of these youngguys live.
And I want to be clear with ourcommunity don't fall for it.
The work has to be done.

(01:04:17):
And we kind of listed outeverything that we thought was
actionable without a barcode foryou to buy into.
So, Rich, I just curious to knowwhat you think about that
because that is I I find that'dbe kind of fucked up.
That that's what's happening alot of these communities that
I've been diving into.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:33):
Yeah, not so much even online, but they think
about in the hood, bro, indifferent communities.
Like, what is the prime targetof a gang is to find that young
man who doesn't have a manMilitary police, yeah.
Angry young men that are willingto, yeah.
Yeah, bro.
They recruit, they find theseyoung guys with no father,

(01:04:56):
recruit them, exploit them,exploit their vulnerability of
feeling empty and be like, yo,I'll be a role model, I'll be
your mentor, I'll be your rock,I'll give you guidance, I'll
protect you.
And most of these guys justthey're like, damn, I need that,
I want that, I seek that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:16):
And what do you think they really want?
What do you think they reallywant?
And what's your advice tosomebody about to pay$750,$1,000
for the ultimate alpha maleroadmap to being the ultimate
alpha wolf man of all time?

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:30):
I think they just don't want to feel a void.
They're buying into masking avoid, whether that be joining a
gang or buying a course or goingto an event or whatever the case
may be.
And you know, it like you said,it's predatory at the end of the
day.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:47):
I feel like the solution is somewhere between,
depending on your age and yoursituation, because I do
understand there's pain there.
There's a lot of pain in thisspecific category.
But I find the solution to besomewhere between joining a
sports team if you're in highschool or middle school.
There's a lot of positives thatcome from that, especially if

(01:06:10):
you're a young guy, because one,you get to let off a lot of that
aggression, playing football,soccer, uh, wrestling, whatever
the case may be, boxing.
And two, there is something thatcomes with the community that is
built around other young men.
And you'll find pecking orderwhen you're playing a sport.
You'll always be buildingcommunity with a dude that's a

(01:06:33):
senior when you're a sophomore,and he's the alpha of the group,
and he's the guy that's gonna goto college four-year ride.
And I think this natural, Idon't want to say he's not gonna
fill the void for a father inyour life, but coaches, male
mentors, and young men that area little older than you, they
kind of show you how to conductyourself in a way that makes you
feel like you're a part ofsomething.

(01:06:54):
And you're not just sitting athome under the arm of your
mother online all day, searchingthrough forum boards, looking to
fill that void.
So to your point, Rich,sometimes that void could get
filled by joining a communityand specifically a community
that has like a common goal,which sports seems to be a quick
shortcut to that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:13):
Yeah, there's mentors out there for everyone,
man.
And certainly sports is is one.
It could be a teacher.
I know for us growing up, true,it was like true video and and
edit editing classes.
Shout out to Mr.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:28):
Polynese.
Yeah, Mr.
P.
You know what?
That's a great point.
I think I underestimated thatone.
My teachers in high school thatwere willing to deal with my
terrible self, they did serve asfather figures for me at a time
where I really needed it.
So yeah, you you know, you haveto look for real life mentors
that are not gonna charge youfor their time and energy.
That shit is crazy.

(01:07:48):
And the last one I want to touchon, Rich.
I know, I know we got to go, butwhat is your take on therapy?
Because I have a very strongopinion on therapy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:56):
I went to therapy and I think um it did help.
I feel like now that I'm alittle bit older, almost a
couple years away from my 40s, Ifeel like um I'm conflicted.
I feel like I understand theworld a lot better.
I understand human psychology alot better.

(01:08:16):
And I have some resistance as togetting advice from someone
who's probably just as flawed asme, if not even worse.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:24):
Fuck getting advice.
You're paying to get advice.
I mean, for what it's worth,we're kind of doing a version of
therapy here.
No pain.
Yeah.
But yeah, uh continue that trainof thought because I agree with
you on that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:36):
No, yeah, I'll I'll put a bow on it.
It's just, I'm like, man, thisperson is probably just as
flawed as me, if not even more.
Like, sure, they might havedifferent psychological terms
from a textbook to label aparticular situation or that I'm
going through or an emotion thatI'm feeling, but that doesn't

(01:08:57):
qualify them to help me fix mycurrent circumstance.
So I think for me, bro, it'sbeen people like you, my
brother, people that I know loveme and care about me that have
helped me frame or or overcomedifferent obstacles.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:12):
I'll put I'll put a finer point on that because I
think you summarized it well.
Either any medical institution,now I'm not shitting on therapy
because I did it with the freefive that I had at the company I
was working for.
But what I realized by the fifthsession is that I could see
myself entering this revolvingdoor and coming out of the same

(01:09:33):
place I went in through for thenext 50 weeks at a premium rate.
And there is something about thecathartic relief that you feel
from talking about something.
Like I'm sure Rich is gonna feelbetter about his situation and I
will after this episode becausewe got to speak on it.
But when someone's charging youto speak, they're basically

(01:09:56):
selling you a placebo for you tojust dump all these problems on
them.
And sure, they're gonna labelthe problems for you because
that's what they went to schoolfor, because they understand how
to bucket these issues.
Like, for example, the story Isaid about my father being upset
with him because he didn't knowhow to use the internet, and she

(01:10:16):
hit me with the false idols, andit was a moment of clarity that
I had that was worth everydollar that I spent on that
therapy session.
But after a while, what good isknowing what a false idol is if
you can't take action on it tosolve the problem?
So I would say, even with thescammers that are selling shit
online that are uh are trying tosolve your problems in a 30-day

(01:10:38):
payment plan or a therapist, notthat I'm anti-therapy, I would
say this understand thedifference between a temporary
solution and medication versus apermanent solution and not
needing any more medication.
Beware of the person that'sselling you the former and not

(01:11:01):
the latter.
Because how could their businesskeep going on if they give you a
permanent solution?
That means you will never haveto come back to them again.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:09):
Yeah, you don't notice how every uh session ends
with a cliffhanger.
It's like, stay tuned.
Let's talk about it uh nextweek.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:18):
That's a great point.
I didn't even think of that.
She would always be like, hey,we'll get back to that in the
next session.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:23):
Yeah.
Why do you say that, Rich?
Bro, that's the hook.
That's the hook to keep youcoming back.
It's like, damn, there's more tounpack.
I guess I'll have to wait fornext week to continue unpacking.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:33):
So I'll say this about therapy before we go.
Give yourself an X amount ofweeks to get the thoughts out of
your mind, journal, do the work,but nothing's gonna happen by
just speaking on the issue thatyou feel like you have.
If you have this father void,this father wound, talking about
it is not the only way to getthrough it.

(01:11:54):
You have to take action, likemany things that we talk about.
And anybody that's selling you atemporary solution, be eerie of
them because part of their jobis to keep selling you the
temporary solution.
Look for places that havepermanent solutions.
And I'm willing to bet ninetimes out of 10 that permanent
solution is going to come fromyou.
So I'll leave it at that, Rich.

(01:12:15):
This was a heavy episode.
Anyone in our community that isreally going through this, like
I said earlier, Rich and I arethe perfect audience because we
are 37 and 39 years old.
We are still going through thisand we're still dealing with a
lot of this unpacking.
And we'd love to extend theconversation beyond just the
episode.
Consider this the front door tothe conversation.

(01:12:37):
And if you want to reach us,Rich, I know there's a lot of
places they can reach us if theywant to keep this conversation
going.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:42):
Yeah, bro, we're pushing all of our efforts on
YouTube.
So these clips will be out onYouTube shortly.
Please comment on this video.
Our YouTube is at failuresmedia.
And we're also streaming onApple and Spotify so you can
listen to the full form audioversion of this podcast.
Man, just this was a heavy one,but I mean, I'm excited for when

(01:13:03):
this comes out.
Crazy.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:05):
Failures podcast.
Learn from our mistakes so youdon't have to.
Shout out to all the fathers outthere that weren't around.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:13):
Peace.