What makes someone dedicate their life to policing? For Deputy Chief Jim Martin of the Pueblo Police Department, it's about community connection, innovation, and heart. Born and raised in Pueblo with family roots stretching back a century, Martin returned after military service to protect the community he loves – not just as an officer, but as a youth football coach impacting hundreds of kids' lives.
Technology is revolutionizing how Martin's department serves their Colorado community. Their Real-Time Crime Center deploys drones to emergency scenes within 60-90 seconds, providing officers with what Martin calls "an angel in the sky." The results are tangible: 21 shooting victims received life-saving care who would have otherwise gone undiscovered, as no citizen calls were received for these incidents. Despite these advanced capabilities, Martin emphasizes strict policies protecting privacy rights while enhancing public safety.
The conversation tackles recruitment challenges facing departments nationwide, particularly in states with recent police accountability legislation. Yet Martin remains focused on building trust, dismissing the misconception that officers choose the profession "because we're bullies." Instead, he offers a simple truth: "We do this job because we care and have a deep love and passion for our communities." Perhaps the greatest testament to this philosophy? Two officers now serving alongside Martin once played on his youth football teams as fifth graders.
Subscribe to hear more real stories from the frontlines of public safety, where technology meets humanity, and discover the individuals behind the badge working to make their communities safer places to live.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bob Plaschke (00:10):
Well, hello, my name is Bob Plaschke.
I am the CEO of PepperBall.
This and this is the front line.
The front line, by the way, isloud the Frontline and from a
policing perspective, that isbut the voices behind it,
they're louder and they're theright voices to listen to.
(00:32):
This podcast is officially knownas First Response.
It's actually the number onepodcast that takes you behind
the badge and uncovers realstories and experiences of first
responders from all walks oflife and topics that shape
public safety today.
And I try to do this.
Having not been a firstresponder, I'm trying to, as
(00:55):
best I can understand thechallenges that they face, and
the best way to do that is totalk to folks who are
practitioners, who do it on aday-to-day basis.
So if you're curious about thehuman behind the hero and they
are indeed heroes and the topicsthat drive policing today, this
is your kind of front row seat,so let's get started.
(01:16):
This podcast, I should say, issponsored by Pepperball, where I
have the distinct honor toserve as the chief executive
officer.
PepperBall creates non-lethalalternatives to guns that police
use to keep themselves and thepublic that they serve safe.
So today I'm super excited tohave Deputy Chief Martin, Jim
(01:38):
Martin on the podcast.
Deputy Chief Martin is the, asyou said, deputy Chief at Pueblo
, Colorado, kind of a couplehundred thousand population city
, which is about south of Denver, on the front range, as he
would say, and they have aboutclose to 200 sworn officers.
(02:05):
Chief Barton, and I'm going tocall you Chief through here.
Welcome and thanks for takingthe time, given that you served
in the Army and now have had along career here in policing.
The events over the last coupleof weeks in terms of lots of
(02:30):
folks demonstrating their firstright to speech, you know at the
same time the Army's 250thanniversary, so congratulations.
You know how do you, as apolice officer, how do you look
at the folks that do thesemarches and how do you think
about it, how do you interactwith them and how do you manage
(02:51):
to keep them and the public ingeneral safe?
Chief Jim Martin (02:55):
You know it's a great question.
Thanks, bob, for having me on.
You know the Constitution ofthe United States is what we
base our government and ourlives on.
And you know, having served inthe military, you know I served,
you know, eight years in the USArmy and I did that to protect
our citizens' rights, to be ableto live under the Constitution
(03:16):
and exercise their rights.
You know, especially the FirstAmendment right.
You know we are 100% behindindividuals exercising that
right as long as they follow therules and laws of their country
, their state and theircommunity.
You know we work really closelywith a lot of the organizations
in our community and have agreat relationship.
(03:36):
We've built that relationshipwith them over, you know, many,
many years of interaction.
And you know, when somebodywants to have a rally or or
something along those lines, wetend to meet with them before
that, have a conversation withthem, you know, ensure that
their plans are, you know,within within the rules and the
(03:57):
laws and and just have that openconversation and continue to
build that relationship to whereeverybody involved can be safe
and their people can be safe andour citizens can be safe.
So we've had a good amount ofyou know.
Things happen since 2020, likeevery department across the
country, and it's been verypeaceful and no issues.
(04:20):
So you know that's what we'rehere for, as law enforcement is
to protect our citizens, nomatter you know what side
they're on, and give everybodythe opportunity to exercise
their rights.
Bob Plaschke (04:33):
Yeah, to your point, everyone, we're all
Americans and so we're on atleast on that side, and we all
and I appreciate you know thatyou, um are defending their um,
uh, freedom of speech and that's, you know, that's part of
that's part of the job.
It's not part of yourday-to-day job but it is um part
(04:55):
of the of what you guys do, um,you know, I, I and I'll tell
you what I hear in my role isthat 95% of these protests or
marches, maybe 99%, are asyou've described.
They engage the police in front, they do what they do, they
(05:20):
march in a very predictable wayand then they finish up.
It's only the 1%, 2%, 3 percentwhere it doesn't go that way.
Is that been your experience,that you know the disruption,
what we see?
You know what we see are morethe exception than the rule.
Chief Jim Martin (05:39):
Yeah, I would say so.
I think you know, predominantlymost of them are peaceful.
You know, if you, like you said, across the country, you know
95 percent are peaceful, they'reexercising their rights and
there's no issues.
And I would say, you know, wehaven't had an issue here, it's
been very peaceful and peoplehave exercised their rights and
it's gone rather well ratherwell.
Bob Plaschke (06:08):
I'm glad to hear that.
That's the.
You know I always I find it abit perplexing and this is my
own personal view that you knowthe folks would engage the
police.
You know that one or two orthree percent when they are,
when they're doing, when they'reengaging the police in a
unlawful way, you know you'rekind of biting the hand that
feeds you, so to speak, in thesense that that's the same
police that are there to protectyour, your right to assemble
(06:29):
and your right to free speech.
I can never particularlyunderstand those bad actors,
frankly, because that's whypolice are there.
They're there.
You take an oath to protect thepublic, um, not to, not to
limit them in any way.
Yeah, to protect the public,not to limit them in any way.
Chief Jim Martin (06:45):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, you ask any policeofficer what they said during
their first hiring interview,and it was I want to be here to
serve and help people, andthat's our goal and that's what
we do.
Bob Plaschke (06:58):
We were talking before the podcast that you have
, I think, the capability ofhaving 200 plus officers, but
you're a little bit, you found,like you're about 20% shy of the
number of officers that youwant to have on the street.
Many of the police chiefs havebeen on the show, have talked
about the challenges ofrecruiting post George Floyd
(07:22):
riots protests.
I assume you've experienced thesame, is it?
It's probably more difficult torecruit than it has been in the
past.
Chief Jim Martin (07:31):
Yeah, it definitely has.
We've had some difficultiesrecruiting people and you know
we talked about living inColorado and you know if anybody
follows law enforcement inColorado.
We were one of the first statesto have a police accountability
law.
We were one of the first statesto have a police accountability
law.
Senate Bill 217, you know,passed after the George Floyd
incident and you know it hasreally made it difficult for us
(07:53):
to, you know, recruit.
Some of the laws that have beenpassed in the state have made
it difficult for us to do ourjobs, so I think that has a huge
effect on our recruiting.
Bob Plaschke (08:18):
You know, it's just difficult to get people to
come in and want to do this jobwhen you know legislation is.
You know, we've heard ofdifferent legislation in
different parts of the countrythat, to your point, was kind of
a you know, a kind ofpost-George Floyd reaction.
What is the bill and what doesit mean?
I assume it increases personalliability for a police officer.
Chief Jim Martin (08:39):
Yeah.
So Senate Bill 217 came outdirectly right after after
George, the George Floydincident and it it impacted a
lot of different areas of lawenforcement.
You know it required, you know,body cameras for every agency,
which has happened across many,many States.
It affected our qualifiedimmunity, you know it had some
(09:04):
impact, and we did have officersleave after that or to get out
of law enforcement.
But you know it's not just thatlegislation.
You know you look at some of thestates like California, which
is, you know, had this soft oncrime aspect, and Colorado tends
to have that too.
We've had legislation passedand they're trying to fix some
(09:26):
of it.
But where it limited ourability to, you know, arrest
individuals for certain crimes,you know we've we've lowered
certain drug possession crimesfrom felonies and misdemeanors.
So a lot of the stuff that thatthat's happened, you know, with
our legislation in this state,has really affected our ability
(09:49):
to do our job and I think thatalso, you know, in turn affects
our ability to hire people right, because you know, when you
want to be a police officer, youwant to come out and you want
to do what's right for thecommunity and you want to help
people and you want to serve,and part of that is is, you know
, people holding peopleaccountable for their actions,
and I think you know, when youstop holding people accountable
for their actions, it createsissues and you know other states
(10:10):
look more inviting to be a lawenforcement officer when they
have.
you know consequences forindividuals that break the law
and you can actually do your job.
Bob Plaschke (10:20):
Yeah, no, I think that's right.
We were talking before thepodcast.
We're both very lucky to beparents of boys and I know that
we have tried to create somedegree of accountability in my
household.
But it's not easy, but to yourpoint, you see the effects in
your own household if you don'tcreate accountability.
And it's no different in thepublic context in that sense, um
(10:44):
, and it's no different in thepublic context in that sense, um
you, by the way, um, um, youknow to kind of pat you on the
back, you've been, um, um,you've been a long time, uh,
football coach, um, I, I, I.
I have been a long timebaseball coach, but a football
coach, and and, and part of itis a lot of outreach that you've
done, um, in in combinationwith the department to the
community, um, uh, outreach thatyou've done in combination with
(11:06):
the department to the community.
So you know, congratulations,how long were you a football
coach, or maybe you're still are.
Chief Jim Martin (11:10):
Yeah, so I wish I could still coach, but
you know, being a deputy chief,I'm a little busy.
But you know, back in 2009, meand at the time I was a
detective in property crimes andme and another detective, you
know we had a passion forcoaching and I had younger kids
at the time and you know we hada Bantam League.
(11:31):
They were playing football overon the baseball fields.
I'm like, no, we need footballfields.
So we went ahead and decided wewere going to start an
organization and went to thechief of police and asked if we
could use the public police asthe namesake for it.
The Public Police ActivitiesLeague, partnered with the
Denver Broncos, got some fundingand partnership with the city
(11:53):
to build a sports complex.
It's basically a big greenfield that we utilize on the
south side of Caldwell it'sabout six acres and to hold our
games.
And we started developing thisleague, which we we have age
groups from 8U, 10u, 12u andmiddle school and we, you know,
(12:15):
bring in coaches, volunteercoaches, and we affect roughly
about 800 kids a year.
We also added lacrosse to itbecause I was also a lacrosse
coach for a while when my boyswere growing up.
So I coached football fromabout 2009 to about 2015.
Had the pleasure of coachingboth my sons through it and got
(12:37):
to coach a lot of kids and makea lot of connections and
relationships in the community.
Matter of fact, you know, youget success stories when you're
out there impacting these youth.
And we created the organizationto really look at our children
who weren't able to play sportsbecause they couldn't afford it.
So we provide helmets andshoulder pads to those kids that
(13:00):
can't afford helmets andshoulder pads so they get to
interact in a positiveenvironment with, you know,
positive role models to help,you know, help them move in the
right direction, keep them outof crime, keep them busy, help
them learn teamwork.
You know resiliency.
You know, and it's been areally good experience.
(13:23):
You know I got two officersthat work for us now which makes
me feel old sometimes that Icoached when they were in fifth
grade, um, middle school, um.
You know I have kids that, um,you know, were in foster
families.
You know their whole life,because of issues with their,
(13:44):
their natural parents, um that Istay in touch with.
Um that are doing well, thatare, you know, contributing
members of our society.
That you, you know, went toschool, got good jobs, raised
families and, uh, you know, ifyou you look at some of those
kids, you know they're, they'reuh, you know they're, they're
kind of set up for failureanyway, um, but to have them
(14:05):
succeed and make it through lifeand and still see on the
streets, or you know, when youwalk into a store and they, hey,
coach, how you doing, it'spretty cool.
But you know, I think it'simportant that we continue to
look at our youth and providethose positive role models and,
you know, learning lessons tothem, because you know they're
our future.
I mean, they're the kids thatare going to be sitting in this
(14:26):
seat someday.
And you know our youth is, youknow, the most important thing
that we have in our communitiesand in order to do that, we have
to be a community, we have towork together.
So we've got greatrelationships with a lot of
organizations and, you know,we're getting ready to wrap up
football now, got more teamscoming in, so it's going to be a
(14:48):
good season and I think we'vehad a positive impact in the
community.
So it's been enjoyable.
Bob Plaschke (14:57):
Well, congrats, I mean, I think to your point.
Dad is the most important titlefor me.
Coach ranks up there, maybenumber two.
It's certainly ahead of CEO interms of titles.
And great that a couple ofthese folks have you know kind
of they are your future, theirfuture of the Pueblo Police
(15:19):
Department, that you pick up acouple of folks who, in their
interactions with you, realizeand appreciate what policing is.
I, you know.
A question I always ask is whatyou know, what you know,
whoever I'm talking to, whatwould you most want someone to
understand about policing?
And I'm going to ask you thatquestion.
(15:40):
But the answer that I get a lotis that the police officer that
you're dealing with is it's abrother, he's a father, he's a
son, a daughter, a mother, he'sa football coach right, he's a
neighbor.
He's no different than you.
He's under a lot of he or sheare under a lot of stress.
(16:00):
You know it's a, it is a.
Your life is on the line.
So they are a bit more stressedthan normal, but they're just.
You know this is their job,it's their passion, no different
than yours.
And but you know it's not a,you know they're not a
biologically or genetically.
You know, different species.
They're just people who want tohelp in the community, and so,
(16:21):
you know, being a football coach, I see that a lot in terms of
you know volunteering your time,and you know, I think it's kind
of what.
It's how I think of police inthat context Police officers,
they are part of the community.
Let me ask the question, though, and you can use that answer if
you'd like, but what's the onething if you, you know you'd
(16:42):
like people who are not in theprofession to you know to think
about or understand when theythink about policing or US
police officers?
Chief Jim Martin (16:52):
Yeah, that's a great question because you know
it's really important to mebeing a police officer,
especially in Pueblo.
You know I'm from here, bornand raised, went to join the
Army to get some experience inlife, came back to my hometown.
My family's been here for over100 years.
My grandfather came over fromSicily as an immigrant, came
(17:16):
here set up a life and you knowthe reason I got into this job
is, you know, to take care of mycommunity and in doing that,
looking at why I do this job is,like you said, I'm a coach, I'm
a father.
You know I go to work, you know, on graveyards, so I can be
(17:42):
available to coach for my kidsand their families.
You know, and you know I callthem my kids because you know I
felt like I had, you know, on myteams, I had, you know, at some
point.
You know we had a lot of middleschool team.
We had 120 kids, you know, withthree different teams.
You know they became a part ofmy life and you know it's a
(18:02):
passion, it's a love for whatyou're doing and you're 100%
right.
You know I'm a dad, I'm ahusband, I'm a coach, you know,
and I do this because I care.
And every day, you know you getup at night, have dinner, you
know, get dressed, go to work.
You know get home If it'sfootball season, you're getting
(18:24):
off at eight in the morning.
You know getting up at four,getting your shorts and your
shirt on and going to coaching.
And you know getting back andhave a dinner again.
And you know it's it's just,it's a passion and it's a love
for the community.
And you know we were likeeverybody else.
You know I coached with guysthat were bankers.
I coached with guys that wereteachers.
(18:45):
You know we're all here justtrying to do what we can to make
, you know, our community abetter place.
And you know so everybody canbe safe and happy and live their
lives and take care of theirfamilies.
Bob Plaschke (18:58):
You know why one of the things I try to convey to
my kids and people.
I ask me they say, you know,why has the public been so, you
know, at least the response bythe public being, you know,
viewed as being more, you know,hostile, more defensive, less
trustful.
You know?
(19:20):
Any thoughts in terms of youknow, over the last?
I assume you would agree thatover the last 10 years the
relationship between the policeand the public has changed, or
maybe not, maybe not in Pueblo,but if it has changed, how has
it changed in your mind and kindof any any observations on why
you think that it has changed?
Chief Jim Martin (19:41):
You know, looking at the aspect from
Pueblo, I think we built ourrelationship over the past 10
years.
We have a great relationshipwith the NAACP.
We have a great relationshipwith the Latino Chamber of
Commerce.
You know, and it's aboutoutreach that we've done, I
think you know.
Looking at, you know otherareas of the country.
(20:04):
I think you know it's hard forme to answer that because we've
had such a great relationshiphere.
I think that sometimes, you know, sometimes you look at how
things are portrayed in themedia and I think you only get
part of the story.
You don't get the whole story.
You get that sometimes in newsarticles or interviews here they
(20:28):
only give you snippets of whatyou're saying and sometimes
that's taken out of context andit's presented wrong and it
creates issues.
If people would just like wetalked about being human beings
behind the badge, I mean, we'rejust people going to work.
You know you look at whathappened in LA and I was talking
to my wife about it and I saidI feel bad for those guys
because all they're doing istheir job.
(20:49):
You know they were told to goout and protect both the
protesters and the citizens andthe buildings.
They're just doing their job.
They're not out there beingspit and venom or trying to do
(21:09):
things to anybody, they're justdoing their job.
And I think you know sometimeshow things are portrayed kind of
changes that view of what'sgoing on and it creates issues I
think that's right.
Bob Plaschke (21:20):
I mean, I think they said the number of murders
is down, yet people feel lessunsafe, in part because what is
conveyed in 30 second clips is alot more about the violence,
and I think that's.
You know, that's.
That's the thing that I thinkis a bit sad in, you know,
(21:41):
absent.
You know, in the old days,dating myself, you know your
perspective of policing wasbased on what you experienced
and what your friendsexperienced, and generally they
were all positive experiences.
You know, you call 911, someoneshowed up and now people's
experience is shaped by whatthey consume digitally and I
think there, you know, it onlyconveys the worst.
(22:06):
You don't.
I mean all the stories.
You don't get the stories everyday of the police chief going
and put his football coach, youknow, and his whistle on, or the
.
You know the people helping thecommunity and you know people,
the police officers, helping anddoing what they do every day,
and all the 911 calls and allthe interventions and all the
times that they've saved a life.
So it's a bit slanted to thenegative, unfortunately, but it
(22:32):
is what it is.
On that note, I was.
You know we were talkingbeforehand about changing and
policing and you had talkedabout, you had recently taken
over the, your High CrimeInformation Center.
I think is what the right nameis, yeah, high Crime Center,
high Crime Center and you knowthis is.
I think this is, you know, thisis where digital technology
(22:54):
actually is to a positive right.
For those who don't understandwhat that center is or what it
does and its impact to thecommunity, could you give us a
little bit of an overview?
Chief Jim Martin (23:05):
Yeah, definitely so.
We have a real-time crimecenter that's been up for about
a year about a year.
We have several differenttechnologies that we utilize in
it.
We utilize ShotSpotter, whichis a gunshot detection system.
We have around 75 advancedlicense plate readers.
We have about 350 cameras.
(23:28):
We have access to that are ingovernment buildings and we are
standing up a drone as firstresponder program with Brink
drones.
What this allows us to do iswe're able to get a drone on
scene within 60 to 90 seconds ofa call to provide real time
intelligence to our officers.
As well.
As you know evidence, you knowpurposes if anything happens.
(23:50):
We've had great success withthis.
You know, with ShotSpotteralone, you know when you look
and the biggest stat to me isnot how many gunshots we've
detected, not how many shellcasings we've recovered.
The biggest stat to me is thelife saved.
So we've had 21 incidents sinceinception of ShotSpotter in
February 24th where we'veprovided life-saving measures to
(24:14):
individuals who were shot thatwe did not receive a call from a
citizen on.
And the interesting statisticis about 85% of the shot alerts
that we get through ShotSpotterwe do not get a call from the
citizen, which is prettyconsistent across the country.
So you know, without thatsystem, you know those are 21
(24:38):
people who may not be with usnow.
So we were able to save 21lives.
With the added technology thatwe have with the system, you
know, we're going to be able tohave our citizens register their
ring cameras.
Um, we can't look at their reamcameras, but what it does, it
gives us an idea of, uh, youknow locations where those
(24:58):
cameras are and if we have anincident occur in that
neighborhood, we can send out amass email to those individuals
and say could you please look atyour cameras between this time
and this time?
Um, we're looking for you whitevehicle or an incident occurred
to you with your video, and ifyou have anything that would
assist us in the investigation,please send it to us and they
can just email it to us.
I mean, in July we are alsohaving a meeting here at the
(25:21):
police department with ourbusiness partners and the
community where we can actuallyfederate their cameras into the
real-time crime center, such asbusinesses and other
organizations, where we willactually federate their cameras
into the real-time crime center,such as businesses and other
organizations, where we willhave access to those cameras in
case something does happen.
So it gives us a whole newlevel of responsiveness for both
the citizens and our officers.
(25:43):
I can tell you stories of wherewe've logged into body cameras.
We had an incident where we hada female officer get in a full
pursuit with an individual witha knife that she contacted and
our real-time crime centersergeant was able to log into
that body camera and see thedirection of travel she was
running.
So instead of having her worryabout keeping an eye on the
(26:04):
suspect airing her direction andlocation on the radio, he was
able to get into that, air itover the radio so other officers
could respond to the scene toassist her and all she had to do
was focus on the individual shewas chasing so she could really
focus her, her vision on whatshe needed to focus, focus it on
and in talking with theofficers it was interesting
because they feel like now theyhave kind of an angel in the sky
(26:24):
, they have somebody that can betheir virtual backup and, you
know, get that information outquickly and, you know, promote
more officer safety.
So you know I'm excited about,you know, what we have here.
I'm excited about theimplementation of the Drones
Versus Smarter program.
We'll have three drones thisyear up and running in Pueblo.
(26:48):
In two years we'll go to fivedrones and we'll be able to
cover the city with thattechnology and, like I said,
provide real time intelligencewithin 60 seconds of a scene to
our officers.
The other good thing about it,too, is with the staffing
shortages around the country.
One of the things that it cando is it can also clear about
25% of the calls for servicewhere you don't need to send an
(27:10):
officer to.
You know suspicious vehicleshave been sitting there for a
while.
You know we get calls in Pueblo.
You know of a man with a weaponand then when the officer gets
there, you know it's a65-year-old man walking down the
street with a rather tall caneor stick.
So you can utilize that droneto clear those calls and have
your officer available for morehigher priority calls where life
(27:33):
and live is at risk, and youknow so it's.
It has a lot of differentcapabilities.
That, I think, is going to be ahuge benefit to our department.
Bob Plaschke (27:49):
Oh, I totally agree, it's.
You know, PepperBall is ade-escalation tool because it
allows officers to engagesubjects at distance, but this
is the ultimate de-escalation inthat and aerial some
perspective, so that they can.
It allows them to, I wouldimagine.
(28:15):
It allows them to calm theirmind and engage in a way that's
appropriate, as opposed tohaving that little bit of
adrenaline when you don't knowexactly what you're dealing with
.
Chief Jim Martin (28:26):
Yeah, I mean just the example of the female
officer that was in the footpursuit.
I mean, when I started back in02, in 02, you know I worked the
east side of 12 along grayguards and we didn't have body
cams or gps or anything.
And you know you get a footchasing, great on graveyard.
You're in an alley somewhereand everybody's asking where
you're at and you're like I'msomewhere on the east side, um,
you know, if you lose track ofwhere you're going, and to have
(28:46):
this ability now where you havean individual sitting at a desk
that has all this technologythat can log into your camera
and see where it's running andbe like, yeah, she's, she's here
, she's traveling westboundthere between this street and
this street in the alley, youknow they're going to pop out
here.
You know 10 seconds and you gotguys that are ready.
Bob Plaschke (29:10):
So, you know, like I said, it's kind of like an
angel in the sky.
You know, guardian angel, howdo you address, you know, the I
guess the devil's advocate wouldsay privacy?
This is a big brother Now we'llhave, you know, constant
surveillance.
You know my, my, my dozenlicense plate readers, cameras,
et cetera, et cetera.
(29:30):
How do you address the privacyissue?
Chief Jim Martin (29:32):
So you know we have retention policies, of
course, right For retainingvideo.
You know we have very strictrules and policies that dictate
how we utilize these systems.
So, like cameras, we can't lookin people's windows without a
search warrant.
We can't look at people's yardsyou know fencing yards.
You know if we're doing aninvestigation, you know, without
a search warrant, you know sowe have to abide by the laws of
(29:55):
the state.
We have to abide by ourpolicies.
You know.
And of course you have policiesand you know if somebody
violates those we'll hold themaccountable for those violations
.
But you know we stick to whatour policies say and you know
our legal team reviews what wehave and ensure that.
You know we have the utmostprotection for our citizens.
(30:16):
You know, when you talk aboutthe cameras that we're looking
at the businesses to connect in,you know we have waivers and
acknowledgments so they knowwhat they're exactly getting
into.
And you know also, you knowwhen you look at the ring
cameras, we cannot log into ring.
We won't do that.
We don't want to do that.
We just want to have all.
We want to have the ability andthe technology to protect our
(30:37):
citizens and provide good casesup to our district attorney's
office so we can ensure that youknow we're, you know, impacting
crime in a positive way in ourcommunity and, you know,
improving the quality of life.
Bob Plaschke (30:50):
And just a specific question, that that
means drones.
You can't fly the drone intothe backyard.
Does that mean you have to kindof stay in the street?
I mean, that's a no, so we canfly the drone.
Chief Jim Martin (31:00):
But what I mean by that is is we're not
gonna.
We're not gonna look inpeople's windows.
You know we're not gonna flyinto that.
So you know, barricaded suspect.
We're going to put the drone up.
We have a reason to be there.
You know we'll have the droneup providing overwatch.
So, yeah, if we have a reasonto be there, we're going to be
there.
But you know we're not going tolook inside your windows.
We're not going to enter yourhouse unless we have a search
warrant.
You know that nature.
Bob Plaschke (31:29):
It's interesting, our listeners in the US drones.
You know, the FAA does a reallygood job of limiting drone
activity and, as an example,you're not allowed in an absence
of a waiver, I think, you'renot allowed to deploy anything
from a drone.
So people always ask what about?
You know Pepperball from adrone?
(31:51):
And we say that's just.
You know, the FAA doesn't allowthat in an outside context.
They do.
By the way, interestinglyenough, I just recently learned
that they will give you alicense to deploy inside a
building, which I thought wasinteresting.
So there's schools now startingto be equipped with drones for
active shooting and then, thedrones basically have.
(32:11):
It's not a lethal capability,but they've allowed for our
non-lethal capability to bedeployed inside a school, which
I thought was, you know, atleast a step in the right
direction.
Chief Jim Martin (32:22):
Yeah, technology is.
I mean, it's a force multiplier.
You know we're going to behaving you know, it doubles
every year.
And looking at what it's goingto be doing for law enforcement,
what we're doing across thecountry, it's going to be huge.
Bob Plaschke (32:39):
Well, you know, the chief, by the way, told me
that at the end of this podcasthe gets to go on vacation, so
I'm not going to hold him, notgoing to hold him up, um, and
enjoy the, the, the few days off, um, um, you know I'm going to
go back, um, uh, to let two lastquestions.
But the second to last questionis you know what's what's one
(33:01):
misconception about police thatyou'd you know that people think
, and it's just wrong, justwrong, um, that you've heard
over your career you know, Iguess the one thing I think you
know I'm sure a lot of peoplehave heard this is that we got
in the job because we're bullies, um you know, oh interesting, I
have not heard that, but okayI've heard that we've gotten the
(33:23):
job because we're bullies.
Chief Jim Martin (33:24):
You know we're .
You know we wanted to have somepower, you know it.
That's not why we did this jobto do this job.
We.
We do this job because we careand we have a deep love and
passion for our communities andwe want to help people.
So I think that's the biggestthing that I've.
Bob Plaschke (33:42):
I found humorous, you know, when people said
people said you know, and I now,having heard that, I can
understand.
I can, at least I don't know Ican understand where the
question might have emanatedfrom, but I completely agree, I
have.
It's almost the.
It is the opposite in thehundreds and hundreds of police
officers I meet every year.
(34:03):
Is that, you know?
That is the word.
That is not the word that wouldever come to mind in any
context.
It is what you say.
It is someone who cares for andthinks about the community.
That's kind of why they don'trisk their lives to be a bully.
Chief Jim Martin (34:23):
That's not a good ROI.
In that context, I mean some ofthe people with the biggest
hearts I've met are cops.
Bob Plaschke (34:29):
Yep, I agree, I totally agree.
Well, chief, this is the lastquestion, which is, we'd love to
make a small donation, anhonorarium on behalf of first
responders, this podcast, toyour favorite charity.
Chief Jim Martin (34:45):
What charity can we donate to?
Bob Plaschke (34:52):
Let's go to COPS.
Okay, great, you're not thefirst and you won't be the last
to pick that organization.
It's the.
It's a great organization interms of taking care of those
who fall into the line of duty.
I super appreciate it.
Well, folks, thanks forlistening.
(35:17):
You know and that was DeputyChief Martin out of the Pueblo,
colorado Police Department youknow that we didn't talk much
about it, but Pueblo is not aquiet suburbs, it's a
blue-gray-collar community andit has a lot of challenges, a
(35:38):
lot of gang violence there.
And you think about what youheard from Chief Martin, an
empathetic football coach who's,you know, been in the community
, lived there for 100 years hisfamily's been there for 100
years, I should say and you knowjust wants to do right and get
(35:58):
back to the community.
And you know that is, you knowthat is the police, the police
officers I meet every day, andyou know, and that community is
lucky to have him and lucky tohave his leadership and lucky to
have those two folks whograduated from his football
program as police officers.
(36:18):
Because, you know, that is whatpolicing is.
By the way, in the UnitedStates it's a very local context
.
It's primarily people who grewup there who want to serve their
communities.
This is not a, you know youdon't bring people in from other
parts of the world.
It's just a.
It's a local, it's a local jobto keep the community safe and
(36:39):
lots of local people who reallycare.
The other thing I took away isthis force multiplier from
technology.
We have to, you know and thisis as a community member you
have to, and I'd encourage folksto think about that and in
terms of when police and fireagencies try to raise money with
bonds, that they're raising itto save lives, you know they're
(37:00):
not raising it for salaries,they're not usually raising it
to bring new technology andcapabilities to make their
community safer.
And you heard about ShotSpotter, which you know.
It has saved 20 lives in Puebloover the last couple of years,
simply because they can getsomeone out to someone that's
been shot and they can getmedical aid to them so they can
(37:22):
save their lives.
So it's a technology is good, Iwould say, particularly in the
hands of police who are verythoughtful about how to deploy
it.
Well, that's it for me and forthis podcast.
This is I am Bob Plaschke, I amthe CEO of Pepperball and this
is First Response.
(37:43):
Hopefully you enjoyed the halfhour or so that we went behind,
kind of, in this case, chiefMartin's badge and uncovered and
talked about him and hisbackground and the experiences
that have shaped him and how heserves and protects his local
community.
I appreciate you guys listeningAgain.
I'm going to shout out one moretime to PepperBall the pitch
(38:10):
is, that Pepper Ball does and itdoes it now for 6,000 agencies
across the United States producenon-lethal alternatives to guns
that police can use to keepthemselves and the public safe.
Signing off for now and we'llsee you next time, thank you.
Well, hello, my name is Bob Plaschke.
I am the CEO of PepperBall.
This and this is the front line.
The front line, by the way, isloud the Frontline and from a
policing perspective, that isbut the voices behind it,
they're louder and they're theright voices to listen to.
(00:32):
This podcast is officially knownas First Response.
It's actually the number onepodcast that takes you behind
the badge and uncovers realstories and experiences of first
responders from all walks oflife and topics that shape
public safety today.
And I try to do this.
Having not been a firstresponder, I'm trying to, as
(00:55):
best I can understand thechallenges that they face, and
the best way to do that is totalk to folks who are
practitioners, who do it on aday-to-day basis.
So if you're curious about thehuman behind the hero and they
are indeed heroes and the topicsthat drive policing today, this
is your kind of front row seat,so let's get started.
(01:16):
This podcast, I should say, issponsored by Pepperball, where I
have the distinct honor toserve as the chief executive
officer.
PepperBall creates non-lethalalternatives to guns that police
use to keep themselves and thepublic that they serve safe.
So today I'm super excited tohave Deputy Chief Martin, Jim
(01:38):
Martin on the podcast.
Deputy Chief Martin is the, asyou said, deputy Chief at Pueblo
, Colorado, kind of a couplehundred thousand population city
, which is about south of Denver, on the front range, as he
would say, and they have aboutclose to 200 sworn officers.
(02:05):
Chief Barton, and I'm going tocall you Chief through here.
Welcome and thanks for takingthe time, given that you served
in the Army and now have had along career here in policing.
The events over the last coupleof weeks in terms of lots of
(02:30):
folks demonstrating their firstright to speech, you know at the
same time the Army's 250thanniversary, so congratulations.
You know how do you, as apolice officer, how do you look
at the folks that do thesemarches and how do you think
about it, how do you interactwith them and how do you manage
(02:51):
to keep them and the public ingeneral safe?
Chief Jim Martin (02:55):
You know it's a great question.
Thanks, bob, for having me on.
You know the Constitution ofthe United States is what we
base our government and ourlives on.
And you know, having served inthe military, you know I served,
you know, eight years in the USArmy and I did that to protect
our citizens' rights, to be ableto live under the Constitution
(03:16):
and exercise their rights.
You know, especially the FirstAmendment right.
You know we are 100% behindindividuals exercising that
right as long as they follow therules and laws of their country
, their state and theircommunity.
You know we work really closelywith a lot of the organizations
in our community and have agreat relationship.
(03:36):
We've built that relationshipwith them over, you know, many,
many years of interaction.
And you know, when somebodywants to have a rally or or
something along those lines, wetend to meet with them before
that, have a conversation withthem, you know, ensure that
their plans are, you know,within within the rules and the
(03:57):
laws and and just have that openconversation and continue to
build that relationship to whereeverybody involved can be safe
and their people can be safe andour citizens can be safe.
So we've had a good amount ofyou know.
Things happen since 2020, likeevery department across the
country, and it's been verypeaceful and no issues.
(04:20):
So you know that's what we'rehere for, as law enforcement is
to protect our citizens, nomatter you know what side
they're on, and give everybodythe opportunity to exercise
their rights.
Bob Plaschke (04:33):
Yeah, to your point, everyone, we're all
Americans and so we're on atleast on that side, and we all
and I appreciate you know thatyou, um are defending their um,
uh, freedom of speech and that's, you know, that's part of
that's part of the job.
It's not part of yourday-to-day job but it is um part
(04:55):
of the of what you guys do, um,you know, I, I and I'll tell
you what I hear in my role isthat 95% of these protests or
marches, maybe 99%, are asyou've described.
They engage the police in front, they do what they do, they
(05:20):
march in a very predictable wayand then they finish up.
It's only the 1%, 2%, 3 percentwhere it doesn't go that way.
Is that been your experience,that you know the disruption,
what we see?
You know what we see are morethe exception than the rule.
Chief Jim Martin (05:39):
Yeah, I would say so.
I think you know, predominantlymost of them are peaceful.
You know, if you, like you said, across the country, you know
95 percent are peaceful, they'reexercising their rights and
there's no issues.
And I would say, you know, wehaven't had an issue here, it's
been very peaceful and peoplehave exercised their rights and
it's gone rather well ratherwell.
Bob Plaschke (06:08):
I'm glad to hear that.
That's the.
You know I always I find it abit perplexing and this is my
own personal view that you knowthe folks would engage the
police.
You know that one or two orthree percent when they are,
when they're doing, when they'reengaging the police in a
unlawful way, you know you'rekind of biting the hand that
feeds you, so to speak, in thesense that that's the same
police that are there to protectyour, your right to assemble
(06:29):
and your right to free speech.
I can never particularlyunderstand those bad actors,
frankly, because that's whypolice are there.
They're there.
You take an oath to protect thepublic, um, not to, not to
limit them in any way.
Yeah, to protect the public,not to limit them in any way.
Chief Jim Martin (06:45):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, you ask any policeofficer what they said during
their first hiring interview,and it was I want to be here to
serve and help people, andthat's our goal and that's what
we do.
Bob Plaschke (06:58):
We were talking before the podcast that you have
, I think, the capability ofhaving 200 plus officers, but
you're a little bit, you found,like you're about 20% shy of the
number of officers that youwant to have on the street.
Many of the police chiefs havebeen on the show, have talked
about the challenges ofrecruiting post George Floyd
(07:22):
riots protests.
I assume you've experienced thesame, is it?
It's probably more difficult torecruit than it has been in the
past.
Chief Jim Martin (07:31):
Yeah, it definitely has.
We've had some difficultiesrecruiting people and you know
we talked about living inColorado and you know if anybody
follows law enforcement inColorado.
We were one of the first statesto have a police accountability
law.
We were one of the first statesto have a police accountability
law.
Senate Bill 217, you know,passed after the George Floyd
incident and you know it hasreally made it difficult for us
(07:53):
to, you know, recruit.
Some of the laws that have beenpassed in the state have made
it difficult for us to do ourjobs, so I think that has a huge
effect on our recruiting.
Bob Plaschke (08:18):
You know, it's just difficult to get people to
come in and want to do this jobwhen you know legislation is.
You know, we've heard ofdifferent legislation in
different parts of the countrythat, to your point, was kind of
a you know, a kind ofpost-George Floyd reaction.
What is the bill and what doesit mean?
I assume it increases personalliability for a police officer.
Chief Jim Martin (08:39):
Yeah.
So Senate Bill 217 came outdirectly right after after
George, the George Floydincident and it it impacted a
lot of different areas of lawenforcement.
You know it required, you know,body cameras for every agency,
which has happened across many,many States.
It affected our qualifiedimmunity, you know it had some
(09:04):
impact, and we did have officersleave after that or to get out
of law enforcement.
But you know it's not just thatlegislation.
You know you look at some of thestates like California, which
is, you know, had this soft oncrime aspect, and Colorado tends
to have that too.
We've had legislation passedand they're trying to fix some
(09:26):
of it.
But where it limited ourability to, you know, arrest
individuals for certain crimes,you know we've we've lowered
certain drug possession crimesfrom felonies and misdemeanors.
So a lot of the stuff that thatthat's happened, you know, with
our legislation in this state,has really affected our ability
(09:49):
to do our job and I think thatalso, you know, in turn affects
our ability to hire people right, because you know, when you
want to be a police officer, youwant to come out and you want
to do what's right for thecommunity and you want to help
people and you want to serve,and part of that is is, you know
, people holding peopleaccountable for their actions,
and I think you know, when youstop holding people accountable
for their actions, it createsissues and you know other states
(10:10):
look more inviting to be a lawenforcement officer when they
have.
you know consequences forindividuals that break the law
and you can actually do your job.
Bob Plaschke (10:20):
Yeah, no, I think that's right.
We were talking before thepodcast.
We're both very lucky to beparents of boys and I know that
we have tried to create somedegree of accountability in my
household.
But it's not easy, but to yourpoint, you see the effects in
your own household if you don'tcreate accountability.
And it's no different in thepublic context in that sense, um
(10:44):
, and it's no different in thepublic context in that sense, um
you, by the way, um, um, youknow to kind of pat you on the
back, you've been, um, um,you've been a long time, uh,
football coach, um, I, I, I.
I have been a long timebaseball coach, but a football
coach, and and, and part of itis a lot of outreach that you've
done, um, in in combinationwith the department to the
community, um, uh, outreach thatyou've done in combination with
(11:06):
the department to the community.
So you know, congratulations,how long were you a football
coach, or maybe you're still are.
Chief Jim Martin (11:10):
Yeah, so I wish I could still coach, but
you know, being a deputy chief,I'm a little busy.
But you know, back in 2009, meand at the time I was a
detective in property crimes andme and another detective, you
know we had a passion forcoaching and I had younger kids
at the time and you know we hada Bantam League.
(11:31):
They were playing football overon the baseball fields.
I'm like, no, we need footballfields.
So we went ahead and decided wewere going to start an
organization and went to thechief of police and asked if we
could use the public police asthe namesake for it.
The Public Police ActivitiesLeague, partnered with the
Denver Broncos, got some fundingand partnership with the city
(11:53):
to build a sports complex.
It's basically a big greenfield that we utilize on the
south side of Caldwell it'sabout six acres and to hold our
games.
And we started developing thisleague, which we we have age
groups from 8U, 10u, 12u andmiddle school and we, you know,
(12:15):
bring in coaches, volunteercoaches, and we affect roughly
about 800 kids a year.
We also added lacrosse to itbecause I was also a lacrosse
coach for a while when my boyswere growing up.
So I coached football fromabout 2009 to about 2015.
Had the pleasure of coachingboth my sons through it and got
(12:37):
to coach a lot of kids and makea lot of connections and
relationships in the community.
Matter of fact, you know, youget success stories when you're
out there impacting these youth.
And we created the organizationto really look at our children
who weren't able to play sportsbecause they couldn't afford it.
So we provide helmets andshoulder pads to those kids that
(13:00):
can't afford helmets andshoulder pads so they get to
interact in a positiveenvironment with, you know,
positive role models to help,you know, help them move in the
right direction, keep them outof crime, keep them busy, help
them learn teamwork.
You know resiliency.
You know, and it's been areally good experience.
(13:23):
You know I got two officersthat work for us now which makes
me feel old sometimes that Icoached when they were in fifth
grade, um, middle school, um.
You know I have kids that, um,you know, were in foster
families.
You know their whole life,because of issues with their,
(13:44):
their natural parents, um that Istay in touch with.
Um that are doing well, thatare, you know, contributing
members of our society.
That you, you know, went toschool, got good jobs, raised
families and, uh, you know, ifyou you look at some of those
kids, you know they're, they'reuh, you know they're, they're
kind of set up for failureanyway, um, but to have them
(14:05):
succeed and make it through lifeand and still see on the
streets, or you know, when youwalk into a store and they, hey,
coach, how you doing, it'spretty cool.
But you know, I think it'simportant that we continue to
look at our youth and providethose positive role models and,
you know, learning lessons tothem, because you know they're
our future.
I mean, they're the kids thatare going to be sitting in this
(14:26):
seat someday.
And you know our youth is, youknow, the most important thing
that we have in our communitiesand in order to do that, we have
to be a community, we have towork together.
So we've got greatrelationships with a lot of
organizations and, you know,we're getting ready to wrap up
football now, got more teamscoming in, so it's going to be a
(14:48):
good season and I think we'vehad a positive impact in the
community.
So it's been enjoyable.
Bob Plaschke (14:57):
Well, congrats, I mean, I think to your point.
Dad is the most important titlefor me.
Coach ranks up there, maybenumber two.
It's certainly ahead of CEO interms of titles.
And great that a couple ofthese folks have you know kind
of they are your future, theirfuture of the Pueblo Police
(15:19):
Department, that you pick up acouple of folks who, in their
interactions with you, realizeand appreciate what policing is.
I, you know.
A question I always ask is whatyou know, what you know,
whoever I'm talking to, whatwould you most want someone to
understand about policing?
And I'm going to ask you thatquestion.
(15:40):
But the answer that I get a lotis that the police officer that
you're dealing with is it's abrother, he's a father, he's a
son, a daughter, a mother, he'sa football coach right, he's a
neighbor.
He's no different than you.
He's under a lot of he or sheare under a lot of stress.
(16:00):
You know it's a, it is a.
Your life is on the line.
So they are a bit more stressedthan normal, but they're just.
You know this is their job,it's their passion, no different
than yours.
And but you know it's not a,you know they're not a
biologically or genetically.
You know, different species.
They're just people who want tohelp in the community, and so,
(16:21):
you know, being a football coach, I see that a lot in terms of
you know volunteering your time,and you know, I think it's kind
of what.
It's how I think of police inthat context Police officers,
they are part of the community.
Let me ask the question, though, and you can use that answer if
you'd like, but what's the onething if you, you know you'd
(16:42):
like people who are not in theprofession to you know to think
about or understand when theythink about policing or US
police officers?
Chief Jim Martin (16:52):
Yeah, that's a great question because you know
it's really important to mebeing a police officer,
especially in Pueblo.
You know I'm from here, bornand raised, went to join the
Army to get some experience inlife, came back to my hometown.
My family's been here for over100 years.
My grandfather came over fromSicily as an immigrant, came
(17:16):
here set up a life and you knowthe reason I got into this job
is, you know, to take care of mycommunity and in doing that,
looking at why I do this job is,like you said, I'm a coach, I'm
a father.
You know I go to work, you know, on graveyards, so I can be
(17:42):
available to coach for my kidsand their families.
You know, and you know I callthem my kids because you know I
felt like I had, you know, on myteams, I had, you know, at some
point.
You know we had a lot of middleschool team.
We had 120 kids, you know, withthree different teams.
You know they became a part ofmy life and you know it's a
(18:02):
passion, it's a love for whatyou're doing and you're 100%
right.
You know I'm a dad, I'm ahusband, I'm a coach, you know,
and I do this because I care.
And every day, you know you getup at night, have dinner, you
know, get dressed, go to work.
You know get home If it'sfootball season, you're getting
(18:24):
off at eight in the morning.
You know getting up at four,getting your shorts and your
shirt on and going to coaching.
And you know getting back andhave a dinner again.
And you know it's it's just,it's a passion and it's a love
for the community.
And you know we were likeeverybody else.
You know I coached with guysthat were bankers.
I coached with guys that wereteachers.
(18:45):
You know we're all here justtrying to do what we can to make
, you know, our community abetter place.
And you know so everybody canbe safe and happy and live their
lives and take care of theirfamilies.
Bob Plaschke (18:58):
You know why one of the things I try to convey to
my kids and people.
I ask me they say, you know,why has the public been so, you
know, at least the response bythe public being, you know,
viewed as being more, you know,hostile, more defensive, less
trustful.
You know?
(19:20):
Any thoughts in terms of youknow, over the last?
I assume you would agree thatover the last 10 years the
relationship between the policeand the public has changed, or
maybe not, maybe not in Pueblo,but if it has changed, how has
it changed in your mind and kindof any any observations on why
you think that it has changed?
Chief Jim Martin (19:41):
You know, looking at the aspect from
Pueblo, I think we built ourrelationship over the past 10
years.
We have a great relationshipwith the NAACP.
We have a great relationshipwith the Latino Chamber of
Commerce.
You know, and it's aboutoutreach that we've done, I
think you know.
Looking at, you know otherareas of the country.
(20:04):
I think you know it's hard forme to answer that because we've
had such a great relationshiphere.
I think that sometimes, you know, sometimes you look at how
things are portrayed in themedia and I think you only get
part of the story.
You don't get the whole story.
You get that sometimes in newsarticles or interviews here they
(20:28):
only give you snippets of whatyou're saying and sometimes
that's taken out of context andit's presented wrong and it
creates issues.
If people would just like wetalked about being human beings
behind the badge, I mean, we'rejust people going to work.
You know you look at whathappened in LA and I was talking
to my wife about it and I saidI feel bad for those guys
because all they're doing istheir job.
(20:49):
You know they were told to goout and protect both the
protesters and the citizens andthe buildings.
They're just doing their job.
They're not out there beingspit and venom or trying to do
(21:09):
things to anybody, they're justdoing their job.
And I think you know sometimeshow things are portrayed kind of
changes that view of what'sgoing on and it creates issues I
think that's right.
Bob Plaschke (21:20):
I mean, I think they said the number of murders
is down, yet people feel lessunsafe, in part because what is
conveyed in 30 second clips is alot more about the violence,
and I think that's.
You know, that's.
That's the thing that I thinkis a bit sad in, you know,
(21:41):
absent.
You know, in the old days,dating myself, you know your
perspective of policing wasbased on what you experienced
and what your friendsexperienced, and generally they
were all positive experiences.
You know, you call 911, someoneshowed up and now people's
experience is shaped by whatthey consume digitally and I
think there, you know, it onlyconveys the worst.
(22:06):
You don't.
I mean all the stories.
You don't get the stories everyday of the police chief going
and put his football coach, youknow, and his whistle on, or the
.
You know the people helping thecommunity and you know people,
the police officers, helping anddoing what they do every day,
and all the 911 calls and allthe interventions and all the
times that they've saved a life.
So it's a bit slanted to thenegative, unfortunately, but it
(22:32):
is what it is.
On that note, I was.
You know we were talkingbeforehand about changing and
policing and you had talkedabout, you had recently taken
over the, your High CrimeInformation Center.
I think is what the right nameis, yeah, high Crime Center,
high Crime Center and you knowthis is.
I think this is, you know, thisis where digital technology
(22:54):
actually is to a positive right.
For those who don't understandwhat that center is or what it
does and its impact to thecommunity, could you give us a
little bit of an overview?
Chief Jim Martin (23:05):
Yeah, definitely so.
We have a real-time crimecenter that's been up for about
a year about a year.
We have several differenttechnologies that we utilize in
it.
We utilize ShotSpotter, whichis a gunshot detection system.
We have around 75 advancedlicense plate readers.
We have about 350 cameras.
(23:28):
We have access to that are ingovernment buildings and we are
standing up a drone as firstresponder program with Brink
drones.
What this allows us to do iswe're able to get a drone on
scene within 60 to 90 seconds ofa call to provide real time
intelligence to our officers.
As well.
As you know evidence, you knowpurposes if anything happens.
(23:50):
We've had great success withthis.
You know, with ShotSpotteralone, you know when you look
and the biggest stat to me isnot how many gunshots we've
detected, not how many shellcasings we've recovered.
The biggest stat to me is thelife saved.
So we've had 21 incidents sinceinception of ShotSpotter in
February 24th where we'veprovided life-saving measures to
(24:14):
individuals who were shot thatwe did not receive a call from a
citizen on.
And the interesting statisticis about 85% of the shot alerts
that we get through ShotSpotterwe do not get a call from the
citizen, which is prettyconsistent across the country.
So you know, without thatsystem, you know those are 21
(24:38):
people who may not be with usnow.
So we were able to save 21lives.
With the added technology thatwe have with the system, you
know, we're going to be able tohave our citizens register their
ring cameras.
Um, we can't look at their reamcameras, but what it does, it
gives us an idea of, uh, youknow locations where those
(24:58):
cameras are and if we have anincident occur in that
neighborhood, we can send out amass email to those individuals
and say could you please look atyour cameras between this time
and this time?
Um, we're looking for you whitevehicle or an incident occurred
to you with your video, and ifyou have anything that would
assist us in the investigation,please send it to us and they
can just email it to us.
I mean, in July we are alsohaving a meeting here at the
(25:21):
police department with ourbusiness partners and the
community where we can actuallyfederate their cameras into the
real-time crime center, such asbusinesses and other
organizations, where we willactually federate their cameras
into the real-time crime center,such as businesses and other
organizations, where we willhave access to those cameras in
case something does happen.
So it gives us a whole newlevel of responsiveness for both
the citizens and our officers.
(25:43):
I can tell you stories of wherewe've logged into body cameras.
We had an incident where we hada female officer get in a full
pursuit with an individual witha knife that she contacted and
our real-time crime centersergeant was able to log into
that body camera and see thedirection of travel she was
running.
So instead of having her worryabout keeping an eye on the
(26:04):
suspect airing her direction andlocation on the radio, he was
able to get into that, air itover the radio so other officers
could respond to the scene toassist her and all she had to do
was focus on the individual shewas chasing so she could really
focus her, her vision on whatshe needed to focus, focus it on
and in talking with theofficers it was interesting
because they feel like now theyhave kind of an angel in the sky
(26:24):
, they have somebody that can betheir virtual backup and, you
know, get that information outquickly and, you know, promote
more officer safety.
So you know I'm excited about,you know, what we have here.
I'm excited about theimplementation of the Drones
Versus Smarter program.
We'll have three drones thisyear up and running in Pueblo.
(26:48):
In two years we'll go to fivedrones and we'll be able to
cover the city with thattechnology and, like I said,
provide real time intelligencewithin 60 seconds of a scene to
our officers.
The other good thing about it,too, is with the staffing
shortages around the country.
One of the things that it cando is it can also clear about
25% of the calls for servicewhere you don't need to send an
(27:10):
officer to.
You know suspicious vehicleshave been sitting there for a
while.
You know we get calls in Pueblo.
You know of a man with a weaponand then when the officer gets
there, you know it's a65-year-old man walking down the
street with a rather tall caneor stick.
So you can utilize that droneto clear those calls and have
your officer available for morehigher priority calls where life
(27:33):
and live is at risk, and youknow so it's.
It has a lot of differentcapabilities.
That, I think, is going to be ahuge benefit to our department.
Bob Plaschke (27:49):
Oh, I totally agree, it's.
You know, PepperBall is ade-escalation tool because it
allows officers to engagesubjects at distance, but this
is the ultimate de-escalation inthat and aerial some
perspective, so that they can.
It allows them to, I wouldimagine.
(28:15):
It allows them to calm theirmind and engage in a way that's
appropriate, as opposed tohaving that little bit of
adrenaline when you don't knowexactly what you're dealing with
.
Chief Jim Martin (28:26):
Yeah, I mean just the example of the female
officer that was in the footpursuit.
I mean, when I started back in02, in 02, you know I worked the
east side of 12 along grayguards and we didn't have body
cams or gps or anything.
And you know you get a footchasing, great on graveyard.
You're in an alley somewhereand everybody's asking where
you're at and you're like I'msomewhere on the east side, um,
you know, if you lose track ofwhere you're going, and to have
(28:46):
this ability now where you havean individual sitting at a desk
that has all this technologythat can log into your camera
and see where it's running andbe like, yeah, she's, she's here
, she's traveling westboundthere between this street and
this street in the alley, youknow they're going to pop out
here.
You know 10 seconds and you gotguys that are ready.
Bob Plaschke (29:10):
So, you know, like I said, it's kind of like an
angel in the sky.
You know, guardian angel, howdo you address, you know, the I
guess the devil's advocate wouldsay privacy?
This is a big brother Now we'llhave, you know, constant
surveillance.
You know my, my, my dozenlicense plate readers, cameras,
et cetera, et cetera.
(29:30):
How do you address the privacyissue?
Chief Jim Martin (29:32):
So you know we have retention policies, of
course, right For retainingvideo.
You know we have very strictrules and policies that dictate
how we utilize these systems.
So, like cameras, we can't lookin people's windows without a
search warrant.
We can't look at people's yardsyou know fencing yards.
You know if we're doing aninvestigation, you know, without
a search warrant, you know sowe have to abide by the laws of
(29:55):
the state.
We have to abide by ourpolicies.
You know.
And of course you have policiesand you know if somebody
violates those we'll hold themaccountable for those violations
.
But you know we stick to whatour policies say and you know
our legal team reviews what wehave and ensure that.
You know we have the utmostprotection for our citizens.
(30:16):
You know, when you talk aboutthe cameras that we're looking
at the businesses to connect in,you know we have waivers and
acknowledgments so they knowwhat they're exactly getting
into.
And you know also, you knowwhen you look at the ring
cameras, we cannot log into ring.
We won't do that.
We don't want to do that.
We just want to have all.
We want to have the ability andthe technology to protect our
(30:37):
citizens and provide good casesup to our district attorney's
office so we can ensure that youknow we're, you know, impacting
crime in a positive way in ourcommunity and, you know,
improving the quality of life.
Bob Plaschke (30:50):
And just a specific question, that that
means drones.
You can't fly the drone intothe backyard.
Does that mean you have to kindof stay in the street?
I mean, that's a no, so we canfly the drone.
Chief Jim Martin (31:00):
But what I mean by that is is we're not
gonna.
We're not gonna look inpeople's windows.
You know we're not gonna flyinto that.
So you know, barricaded suspect.
We're going to put the drone up.
We have a reason to be there.
You know we'll have the droneup providing overwatch.
So, yeah, if we have a reasonto be there, we're going to be
there.
But you know we're not going tolook inside your windows.
We're not going to enter yourhouse unless we have a search
warrant.
You know that nature.
Bob Plaschke (31:29):
It's interesting, our listeners in the US drones.
You know, the FAA does a reallygood job of limiting drone
activity and, as an example,you're not allowed in an absence
of a waiver, I think, you'renot allowed to deploy anything
from a drone.
So people always ask what about?
You know Pepperball from adrone?
(31:51):
And we say that's just.
You know, the FAA doesn't allowthat in an outside context.
They do.
By the way, interestinglyenough, I just recently learned
that they will give you alicense to deploy inside a
building, which I thought wasinteresting.
So there's schools now startingto be equipped with drones for
active shooting and then, thedrones basically have.
(32:11):
It's not a lethal capability,but they've allowed for our
non-lethal capability to bedeployed inside a school, which
I thought was, you know, atleast a step in the right
direction.
Chief Jim Martin (32:22):
Yeah, technology is.
I mean, it's a force multiplier.
You know we're going to behaving you know, it doubles
every year.
And looking at what it's goingto be doing for law enforcement,
what we're doing across thecountry, it's going to be huge.
Bob Plaschke (32:39):
Well, you know, the chief, by the way, told me
that at the end of this podcasthe gets to go on vacation, so
I'm not going to hold him, notgoing to hold him up, um, and
enjoy the, the, the few days off, um, um, you know I'm going to
go back, um, uh, to let two lastquestions.
But the second to last questionis you know what's what's one
(33:01):
misconception about police thatyou'd you know that people think
, and it's just wrong, justwrong, um, that you've heard
over your career you know, Iguess the one thing I think you
know I'm sure a lot of peoplehave heard this is that we got
in the job because we're bullies, um you know, oh interesting, I
have not heard that, but okayI've heard that we've gotten the
(33:23):
job because we're bullies.
Chief Jim Martin (33:24):
You know we're .
You know we wanted to have somepower, you know it.
That's not why we did this jobto do this job.
We.
We do this job because we careand we have a deep love and
passion for our communities andwe want to help people.
So I think that's the biggestthing that I've.
Bob Plaschke (33:42):
I found humorous, you know, when people said
people said you know, and I now,having heard that, I can
understand.
I can, at least I don't know Ican understand where the
question might have emanatedfrom, but I completely agree, I
have.
It's almost the.
It is the opposite in thehundreds and hundreds of police
officers I meet every year.
(34:03):
Is that, you know?
That is the word.
That is not the word that wouldever come to mind in any
context.
It is what you say.
It is someone who cares for andthinks about the community.
That's kind of why they don'trisk their lives to be a bully.
Chief Jim Martin (34:23):
That's not a good ROI.
In that context, I mean some ofthe people with the biggest
hearts I've met are cops.
Bob Plaschke (34:29):
Yep, I agree, I totally agree.
Well, chief, this is the lastquestion, which is, we'd love to
make a small donation, anhonorarium on behalf of first
responders, this podcast, toyour favorite charity.
Chief Jim Martin (34:45):
What charity can we donate to?
Bob Plaschke (34:52):
Let's go to COPS.
Okay, great, you're not thefirst and you won't be the last
to pick that organization.
It's the.
It's a great organization interms of taking care of those
who fall into the line of duty.
I super appreciate it.
Well, folks, thanks forlistening.
(35:17):
You know and that was DeputyChief Martin out of the Pueblo,
colorado Police Department youknow that we didn't talk much
about it, but Pueblo is not aquiet suburbs, it's a
blue-gray-collar community andit has a lot of challenges, a
(35:38):
lot of gang violence there.
And you think about what youheard from Chief Martin, an
empathetic football coach who's,you know, been in the community
, lived there for 100 years hisfamily's been there for 100
years, I should say and you knowjust wants to do right and get
(35:58):
back to the community.
And you know that is, you knowthat is the police, the police
officers I meet every day, andyou know, and that community is
lucky to have him and lucky tohave his leadership and lucky to
have those two folks whograduated from his football
program as police officers.
(36:18):
Because, you know, that is whatpolicing is.
By the way, in the UnitedStates it's a very local context
.
It's primarily people who grewup there who want to serve their
communities.
This is not a, you know youdon't bring people in from other
parts of the world.
It's just a.
It's a local, it's a local jobto keep the community safe and
(36:39):
lots of local people who reallycare.
The other thing I took away isthis force multiplier from
technology.
We have to, you know and thisis as a community member you
have to, and I'd encourage folksto think about that and in
terms of when police and fireagencies try to raise money with
bonds, that they're raising itto save lives, you know they're
(37:00):
not raising it for salaries,they're not usually raising it
to bring new technology andcapabilities to make their
community safer.
And you heard about ShotSpotter, which you know.
It has saved 20 lives in Puebloover the last couple of years,
simply because they can getsomeone out to someone that's
been shot and they can getmedical aid to them so they can
(37:22):
save their lives.
So it's a technology is good, Iwould say, particularly in the
hands of police who are verythoughtful about how to deploy
it.
Well, that's it for me and forthis podcast.
This is I am Bob Plaschke, I amthe CEO of Pepperball and this
is First Response.
(37:43):
Hopefully you enjoyed the halfhour or so that we went behind,
kind of, in this case, chiefMartin's badge and uncovered and
talked about him and hisbackground and the experiences
that have shaped him and how heserves and protects his local
community.
I appreciate you guys listeningAgain.
I'm going to shout out one moretime to PepperBall the pitch
(38:10):
is, that Pepper Ball does and itdoes it now for 6,000 agencies
across the United States producenon-lethal alternatives to guns
that police can use to keepthemselves and the public safe.
Signing off for now and we'llsee you next time, thank you.
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