What does it mean to carry five generations of law enforcement legacy? Ken Wallentine, the Chief of the West Jordan (Utah) Police Department, takes us on a remarkable journey through 150 years of family policing history—from his great-great-great-grandfather who served as a Deputy US Marshal during the Civil War to his daughter who texted "Dad, I'm okay" after a tense armed standoff just yesterday.
Behind the badge lies a profound philosophy that guides Chief Wallentine's department: "You matter, like I matter." This simple yet powerful approach recognizes the humanity in both officers and community members. As policing has evolved from six-shot revolvers and minimal training to AI-powered body cameras and comprehensive mental health support, the fundamental mission of connecting with people remains unchanged.
Chief Wallentine offers candid insights into how modern officers navigate expanded responsibilities as frontline mental health responders while carrying public expectations that often seem superhuman. He reflects on his own emotional journey through critical incidents without support, contrasting it with today's robust resources for officer wellbeing. The conversation explores how technology has transformed policing—from body cameras that translate dozens of languages in real-time to training that teaches officers to "speak to the camera" when creating permanent records of their interactions.
The most compelling revelations come when discussing de-escalation—not as a tactic but as a goal dependent on creating conditions that help subjects modify their own behavior. This perspective challenges conventional thinking about use of force, suggesting that tools like PepperBall can actually facilitate de-escalation by providing alternatives to deadly force.
Subscribe to hear more authentic conversations with the real heroes behind the badge—the voices that are "a lot louder and, frankly, a lot more interesting" than the headlines might suggest.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bob Plaschke (00:04):
The front line of policing is loud, but the voices
behind it, you know they're alot louder and, I think, frankly
, a lot more interesting.
Hi, I'm Bob Plaschke and thisis First Response.
This is the number one podcastthat takes you behind the badge
and uncovers real stories andexperiences of first responders
from all walks of life and thetopics that shape public safety
(00:26):
today.
If you're curious about the guyor the gal behind the hero and
they are indeed truly heroes andthe topics that they care about
, take a listen.
This is kind of your front rowseat to hearing some of the
really interesting voices outthere and, more importantly, the
heroes.
This podcast is sponsored byPepperBall, where I have the
honor to serve as CEO.
(00:47):
PepperBall creates unlethalalternatives to guns, at least
used to keep themselves and thepublic safe.
Just excited as heck to haveChief Walentine join me.
Chief Walentine is 40 plusyears in public service and
serving the community.
(01:07):
He is currently the chief ofpolice of the West Jordan Police
Department.
It's been there since 2018.
Most interesting to me or atleast most surprising when we
kind of chatting before westarted here, when we were kind
(01:28):
of chatting before we startedhere is that he comes from a
family of 150 plus years ofpolicing.
I don't think I've met a familythat is Blue Bloods chief in
every respect.
Welcome to the podcast.
Tell me and tell our listeners,how does one have 150 years of
policing experience, so to speak?
Ken Wallentine (01:51):
Well, thanks for that introduction, Bob, and my
kids would tell you we have blueblood, tan blood, green blood,
because we've had DeputySheriff's, Deputy United States
Marshals, one federal agent, myson a federal agent serving
(02:12):
overseas.
But it all started with mygreat-great-great-grandfather
during the Civil War or the Warof Northern Aggression For all
of your listeners down in theSouth and he had occasion to tip
(02:32):
back a few drinks with UlyssesS Grant and, after the war,
became appointed as a DeputyUnited States Marshal in Dodge
City, Kansas, ultimately camewest and became a Deputy US
marshal here in the territorynow the states of Idaho and Utah
, and that just that started uson a roll.
(02:53):
We skipped a generation, but asa kid I lived with my
grandfather, who was the townmarshal where we lived and would
drove a pickup truck, and oftenhis gun was locked up in a
cabinet and he had a 12-inchthick stick that pretty much
ruled the roost in that littletown.
Bob Plaschke (03:14):
Well, you know what, appreciate that,
appreciate the history ofservice and to see that your
children are following your way,that's always a good sign.
That tells me at least, thatyou've served a good career and
have been a good role model.
You know it's interestingPolicing, ivo, and I still
(03:34):
believe it is a profession, it'sa calling and you see it passed
down from generation togeneration.
Do you still see that from yourperspective?
I've heard a number of chiefssay that you know, that's a bit
of that luster is kind of wornoff and it's not as much of a
calling, it's more of a jobthese days.
(03:56):
But you know, what do you seewhen you're out there?
Ken Wallentine (04:00):
I do think some of the luster has worn off, but
I also think that it's incumbenton us who are police executives
, sheriffs and directors andchiefs of police to keep that
luster well shined.
Shine it up to be in ourdepartments.
(04:22):
We have a five-word saying inmy department that really is the
premise of how we treat eachother and how we treat the
public, and it's you matter,like I matter, and we look out
for the humanity among ourselvesand in our community.
And I think by recruitingofficers who have that concept
(04:44):
that they're there to serveBecause for me it really is a
service career and when you findthe officer who is there
because she wants to get outthere, serve the community and
really help people solveproblems, that's what restores
the luster, that's what restoresthe pride and nobility that I
felt when I joined the policedepartment many years ago and I
(05:07):
think that's incumbent on all ofus.
I think we can do it, but sure,bob, I will admit that we've
lost something, but I feel likemany out there are trying to
regain it.
Bob Plaschke (05:25):
I would agree, and you I think you know it's these
.
These things are a bit of apendulum.
They kind of swing back andforth to some degree and I think
I feel like over the lastcouple of years the policing as
a police, as a, as an industryor as a as a vocation has
started to pick up a bit ofmomentum.
Started to pick up a bit ofmomentum and you know what Kudos
(05:49):
to a lot of police chiefs thathave had to deal with a pretty
tough decade of public reaction.
But I do think it is swingingback and I think people
appreciate what a police agencyand a police staff and a police
officers do on a day-to-daybasis.
In that context, how have youseen policing change?
(06:15):
I mean, you've seen it over thelast 30 years.
You've seen it, probably goodtimes and bad times of you.
If you had to describe the last, you know the last decade or so
, how have you seen from yourpeers, what big changes have you
seen in that time frame?
Ken Wallentine (06:32):
Well, I think we've all got to talk about
technology.
You know, when I started, wecarried revolvers and some still
do.
My daughter, that's a deputysheriff, has inherited my first
six-shot Smith Wesson revolverand she's also inherited to pass
(06:52):
down to my grandson who'sheaded into law enforcement at
some point my 26-inchsecond-growth hickory stick that
I use as a baton.
We certainly didn't haveelectronic control devices.
I remember the training sessionwhere we were introduced to
those and learned some of thelimitations and some of the
(07:15):
abilities of those tools.
And now my officers.
We live in a community where atleast a quarter of the people
in our community at the dinnertable they speak a different
language other than English.
Their first language issomething other than English and
we have dozens of languages.
(07:36):
My city is home to Utah'slargest mosque and we see folks
from Pakistan, from all of theMiddle Eastern countries as well
as sub-Saharan Africancountries.
And the amazing thing is myofficers can go up, push a
button on their body-worn cameraand translate right there with
(07:58):
their body-worn camera.
That kind of technologycertainly did not exist.
We used to get on the phone andcall around and see if we could
find a French speaker.
We had some Spanish speakers.
So that has certainly changed.
The level of training has, Ithink, improved and there's
still a great area for us toimprove there.
(08:20):
When I started you didn't haveto go to the police academy, and
I didn't.
I had four days of training andat the end of four days, the
fifth day, we went and boughtuniforms, got a badge, went to
the city clerk, got sworn in,and the next workday I showed up
and I rode around to someonefor two weeks and then I was a
(08:41):
full-fledged police officer witha 1976 Pontiac LeMans.
That still is the fastestpolice car I was ever in.
But I think one of the mostsignificant changes in law
enforcement is that our jobdescriptions have changed.
Sure, we are there to serve andprotect, we are there to
(09:02):
mitigate the threats in thecommunity, but we're also
expected today to be mentalhealth caseworkers, to be the
front line in a society that hasoh, I don't know how to
describe it.
I still say that it's a crisisin the world of the mentally ill
and the profoundly emotionallydisturbed in our community, and
(09:26):
when I started that it justwasn't really much of an issue.
And I think the final changethat I've seen is the
expectation that we have fromthe community about our police
officers.
You know, post-covid,post-george Floyd, post many of
the influences that we saw inthe last 10 years.
People expect officers to bealmost superhuman in their
(09:49):
performance Unrealistically so,but we still try and meet that
expectation.
Bob Plaschke (09:55):
Yeah, and that's a great kind of overview of what
has, I think, of what has, Ithink, emerged over the last 10
to 20 years.
And you know, if I'm kind ofrepeating it back, you know the
(10:15):
safety nets that used to bethere for whether it be the
families themselves or churchesor communities, and then the
government entities that wouldmanage folks who are in distress
, to your point, those safetynets have by and far disappeared
and they've been thrust ontothe police, and police primarily
(10:36):
.
I mean obviously EMS folks andthe fire departments have to
deal with it, but they're alwaysthe ones called in.
The police are the first on thescene to have to engage, and I
think it's forced agencies, youknow, in a reactive context, to
have to try to change theirtraining and change their
(10:59):
preparation and, to your point,start to apply tools, to bring
in technology, to try to help.
In that sense, when you and Iand I let me ask this question
when an officer joins now, doyou think they really they have
a full sense of the, of the, ofthat expectation of that job
(11:21):
description, or do they stillthink of it as protecting, you
know, in that context,protecting from, you know, from
bad guys, or do they reallybegin to understand how much
wider the scope is?
Ken Wallentine (11:34):
I think that most officers, when they join,
they do not understand thebreadth of the responsibility
and expectations that will beplaced on them and don't
understand how heavy that mantleis to carry day after day.
And it's our responsibility inthe profession.
Whether you're a sergeant and,by the way, I think that the
(11:55):
sergeants, patrol sergeants inmy world are the real heroes of
policing.
They really run the world.
You know, you can have aculture, either by default or a
culture by design.
And and your patrol sergeants,those are the folks who who
enforce the culture that you'retrying to create.
But, um, I think, officers comein and they, they learn bit by
(12:18):
bit and some people fairlyquickly figure out this isn't
for me and others.
Others embrace that role andsay, yeah, I can do this, I can
be a true servant leader if youwill, in uniform and wear the
badge, that's.
You know.
We talk about the origin of thebadge, going back to the.
You know the Knights and beingthe Knight's shield, and many of
(12:38):
our officers, I think they dodevelop that mindset.
I will tell you this, bob whenI see that in one of my cops,
when I see that in one of myofficers, my heart just jumps.
I love going down the hallwayin the floor of our building
that houses our patrol unit andour training folks and just
seeing officers who I know areout there to serve and to
(13:02):
protect and not just, in thiscontext of catching bad guys and
, you know, having shootouts anddriving fast.
Bob Plaschke (13:12):
And I think that's where I think the tide is
turning with the public, becauseI think I think there's an
acknowledgement and arecognition.
You know, this is the maybe thebenefit of body cams is that
now you know I, my sons tell meabout watching body cams on Tik
TOK, you know that um um, whichyou know I find amazing, um and
(13:36):
the um um, and that they are um,they're empath, increasingly
empathetic to what situationsofficers have to deal with, and
I think the nature of what thatofficer looks like and what they
are and the kind ofexpectations is changing.
(13:59):
Hopefully maybe I'm an optimisthopefully in an increasingly
positive way, where peopleacknowledge that that role is
different and the type of andthat the empathy they have to
have for that officer needs tobe different.
Right, this is no longer thecop on the sidewalk on a beat.
This is someone completelydifferent.
Ken Wallentine (14:19):
In that context, I think that's true and, at the
same time, we need to make surethat we're providing our
officers with the tools thatthey need to support their own
sense of who they are, their ownsense of nobility as police
officers, and the safety nets,if you will, for them to address
(14:40):
the challenges that they had.
You know, I think back to acritical incident, gosh, nearly
40 years ago, when, when,afterwards, I had no clue what
to do and so I went and bangedon some uh, some neighbor's
house and called the onlyattorney I knew to meet me at
the police station.
(15:01):
And when I got to the policestation, you know, they took me
to the police station and put mein a room.
And, uh, only after about 45minutes, when I really had to go
to the bathroom, did I findthat I was locked in one of our
interview and interrogationrooms.
And, uh, I still can't thinkabout that incident without
becoming very, very emotional.
(15:22):
And at the end of the day, whenI came back to work out for a
few days, I remember sitting inthe locker room, on the floor
you know, rows of lockers inthis big, big locker room and on
the floor just crying because Ididn't know how to process what
(15:45):
I'd done and and we oh my gosh,we have done so much better in
providing our officers tools todeal with their own uh
challenges.
Here in utah we have awonderful program called safe ut
, where officers can put an appon their phone and 24-7, 365,
(16:07):
they can engage in a voice callor a confidential web chat with
a licensed clinical socialworker that has been trained and
experienced in dealing withfirst responders, police
officers, paramedics,firefighters and so forth.
We provide mental healthresources within our
organization.
In our agency, we have yogaprograms.
(16:28):
Officers can use their phone todo some relaxation techniques,
some stress relief techniques.
One other major advance thatwe've seen in public safety is
we're teaching our officersabout the duty to intercede or
the duty to intervene when wesee another officer about to
(16:48):
make a consequential mistake,whether it's a use of force or a
Fourth Amendment intrusion, apotentially wrongful search.
We're teaching officers you are, in fact, your brother's keeper
.
We're teaching officers you are, in fact, your brother's keeper
and it is your responsibilityand part of your oath to step in
and help other officers frommaking mistakes.
And that's great to say.
(17:08):
And I hear a lot of people sayyeah, you have a duty to
intervene, but we've got toteach officers how to do that,
and so we've.
We've seen some great programs,starting in new orleans.
The ethical policing iscourageous.
The epic program which gavebirth to the nationally
circulated, now ABLE programActive Bystandership for Law
Enforcement that's a program ouragency uses with great success.
(17:32):
So we're focusing on giving theofficers the emotional and
mental tools to not just survivea career as a cop but to really
thrive, to be a whole person.
Bob Plaschke (17:45):
So at the end of the day they go home and they
are the greatest father, mother,husband, wife, parent and a
member of the community that'sproud to be a police officer
community, the community that'sproud to be a police officer,
you know, and that's that isabsolutely the the the right
(18:07):
goal, and I always try to tellmy people that I come in contact
with, because the majority offolks that I know personally in
fact, I can't think of anyone Iknow personally that's involved
in in law enforcement.
And I say, you know, we, wealways have to remember that the
person that's walking up to you, you know, have you been pulled
over?
They are a father, mother,brother, sister, parent.
(18:30):
You know their, their kids arein schools with your kids.
It's.
You know there's a, there's a.
They are, they're just like usand they're under a tremendous
amount of stress and atremendous amount of you know
they have leeway, you know, notin a, in a way that would be,
(19:03):
you know, inappropriate, but you, you, you just have to
appreciate what they're goingthrough.
Um, and it's, it's not easy.
I, you, you, you, were tellingme before we, we started this
podcast, that your, um, yourdaughter, who's a deputy
Marshall, um, you said yesterday, on Sunday, what did she text
you?
Which I thought was a greatexample of what police officers
(19:28):
deal with.
What happened again on Sunday?
Ken Wallentine (19:30):
Well, first off, I'm grateful she didn't text my
wife.
She sent me a text early in themorning saying she sent me a
text early in the morning thatjust said Dad, I'm okay, talk
later.
And I had received a text likethat from her many many years
(19:53):
ago, right after a gunfight andyeah, that was.
I tell you what.
You can be involved in a deadlyforce incident and walk away
with some emotion.
But you know, when one of yourkids, your own daughter's
involved in a gunfight, that's awhole different bottle of wax
and she and some other deputiesyesterday folks she works with
(20:15):
at the sheriff's office they hadresponded on a burglary alarm
at a gun club and you know, whenyou find a gun club you often
find guns and ammunition.
The suspect was able to getaway before they had a perimeter
and they were able to track himdown, found the trail and he
(20:35):
had holed up in a car in acampground.
Now it's summer here in Utah,just like it is everywhere else,
and people were in thatcampground.
This was a very precarioussituation and he was armed with
a long-range rifle.
Obviously we know as cops thatour vests are not designed to
(20:56):
protect against rifle rounds,the calibers that we see in
hunting, like a .300 WinchesterMagnum or a .270.
So they had to deal with themat a standoff distance and every
one of those deputies I know mydaughter was, because we spoke
later, but every one of thosedeputies was mindful of the fact
(21:17):
that just last week here inUtahah we lost two very fine
police officers uh to a domesticviolence perpetrator who
ambushed the officers with withlong-range hunting rifle.
Uh, fortunately yesterday theuh negotiations worked.
After about an hour this, thisguy surrendered, um, but that's
(21:39):
the sort of thing you know.
We still police humanswith humans.
Sometimes people forget, as yousaid, everybody who walks up to
the car, everybody whoinvestigates the, the burglar or
the armed robbery.
They are someone's son,daughter, maybe husband, wife
and and parent.
I think of this.
Uh, over the weekend the policeofficers who were killed were
(22:02):
killed in a very small town inrural Utah I think the town has
maybe 2,000 residents at most.
It was a 16-officer policedepartment and there were a
couple of high school kids didnot know these officers and they
had high school football kidsand they went out and set up a
(22:23):
lemonade stand and were able tocollect about a thousand, a
little over a thousand dollarsat a
lemonade stand.
The county fair was this lastweekend.
They didn't cancel it, butthere was a third deputy who was
shot and his police service dogwas shot and fortunately he was
able to be there in the rodeoarena.
But to see the response of asmall town, everybody in that
(22:49):
town turning out grateful fortheir police officers, and I
just think how many of youthought to thank a cop before
two officers died and left, ineach case, families and in in
one of them this morning in thenewspaper there's a picture of
this, this officer with his, hislittle league team that he
coached.
The impact is just tremendous.
(23:11):
So every time you deal with apolice officer, pause and think,
pause and think.
What is this officer?
What is, what does he or shebring to the table today?
Bob Plaschke (23:22):
Amen to that.
I mean, I think that's you know,I think the policing has done,
you know, I think, to its credit, it's done a great job of being
infinitely or significantlymore empathetic to the
situations they're encountering.
I mean, the, the old policechiefs used to tell me it was um
, I'm going to ask you, I'mgoing to tell you and I'm going
(23:44):
to make you right, um, and youknow the uh and that was you
know, I guess maybe appropriateif someone's breaking the law.
But in the situations thatpolice deal with, now that you
know that that isn't, you know,that isn't the, you can't do
that and they don't do that.
They, you know, that's a lotmore about engaging, listening
empathetically, trying tounderstand the situation the
(24:06):
person's in, while keepingeveryone safe.
You know, you, you want thecitizens to have the exact same
empathy for the policemanwalking up to the police officer
walking up to the car, becauseyou know to your point, you have
no idea what they, just whatthey may have been through that
morning or that night or thatlast week.
(24:27):
What is, if it is, if the old isask, tell, make.
What is the new?
What do you train your officersto do?
Now, in that context.
What's the analogy for that?
Ken Wallentine (24:39):
I just bristle when I hear ask, don't make.
If I had to simplify it, Iwould say ask, explain, persuade
, direct and when you have tomake, and very often by using
effective communicationtechniques, by listening.
(25:02):
And we have a great trainingprogram it's called Developing
and Implementing an OutwardMindset, by teaching officers
how to listen for the needs ofthe other individual and figure
out how do I address thisperson's needs, how do I get
them to do what I need them todo and how can I help facilitate
that process by seeing whattheir needs are.
(25:23):
You know, much less force isused, and you're absolutely
right.
I do remember an instructor 43years ago telling me ask, tell,
make.
And boy, I did that for a longtime and it didn't work so well.
No it really didn't.
And now we teach officersreally to engage the viewing
(25:46):
audience and so you get tochoose what will be recorded for
(26:07):
posterity in your actions.
And remember this when you makepeople angry, when you tell
people don't cooperate, theydon't consent, they don't
confess.
So the worst thing you can dois make tell they don't confess.
Bob Plaschke (26:23):
So the worst thing you can do is make tell Amen to
that.
No, I think it's right.
It's not easy, though, andthat's what my sons tell me.
And I see the body worn fromwhen people use our technology,
use the pepper ball, and I seethose probably three or four
(26:52):
times a week and, and you know,you, just, you gotta, you, um,
you gotta I don't know if theright word take a deep breath
and really appreciate what theseofficers have to deal with,
because these people, whetherthey're mentally challenged and
having a bad day, you know theyare um, they are not Um, it's.
You know, this isn't liketalking to your neighbor Um, it
is, it is.
It is a hard environment.
There's a lot going on aroundyou.
There's a lot of noise, there's, you know, people videotaping
(27:12):
you.
It is.
You know, to your point, you'rea, you're an actor, but you
it's.
You're like being thrown into aplay you didn't want to write,
right, I mean, it's not what you, it's not a play that you wrote
, and then you have to figure itout on the run.
You have to figure it out inreal time.
How do you try to respond andhow do you try to deal?
(27:35):
You know, on that note.
How many hours of training dopolice officers get per year?
I mean, how does that breakdown?
I mean, is it weeks of training?
Is it days of training?
I mean I don't think I've everasked that question.
Ken Wallentine (27:46):
Well, it really.
It depends on a couple thingsFirst, the state statutory or
administrative requirements andthen the agency's commitment and
resources.
Many states have mandatorycontinuing education
requirements ranging from 12hours I've seen 12 hours in a
few states up to 40 it's.
(28:07):
It's 40 hours where we're at,and sometimes there are
mandatory training subjects suchas firearms qualification,
de-escalation, those sorts ofthings, and that, to me, that's
the bare minimum we say.
Every day is a training day.
For years I've been associatedwith a company called Lexipol
that provides daily trainingbulletins.
(28:30):
Officers get trained literallyevery day, six minutes at a time
, and I don't know how manyhours that works out to over the
year.
In our agency we have a fewmore resources.
In our agency, we have a fewmore resources.
We're able to do much moretraining than 40 hours a year
and able to be pretty responsiveto things that we see in the
(28:52):
community.
Where we've got a need toaddress, we can put together a
training program.
I'll give you an example.
Recently we did training on howto produce a quality body-worn
camera video helping officersspeak to the camera so that
they're creating a record forsuccess, whether it's in
(29:13):
prosecution of a criminal caseor in defending a civil case
because someone says they didsomething wrong, and you know
we've seen a notable improvement.
We were in a good place already.
We've seen a notableimprovement.
We were in a good place already, but still seeing a notable
improvement in how some of ourofficers are speaking to the
camera, if you will.
Bob Plaschke (29:33):
You know you mentioned de-escalation.
We talked about that before.
I you PepperBall, is aquote-unquote de-escalation tool
, but I loved how you talkedabout de-escalation and, if you
wouldn't mind, just going backover that topic as we discussed
it.
Ken Wallentine (29:53):
Well, and you know, PepperBall is something we
have in our inventory ofde-escalation tools and it's a
fabulous option for standoffde-escalation tools.
And it's a fabulous option forstandoff de-escalation.
One thing some people don'tunderstand, bob, is that a use
of force can actually bede-escalation.
If we can cause someone tomodify their behavior with a
(30:16):
chemical irritant, with a pepperball in place of shooting and
killing them, I'll take that anyday.
That's a success.
But many people think thatde-escalation is a tactic.
It's not a tactic.
It's a goal that officers tryvery hard to achieve through
communication, through othersoft skills.
(30:39):
It's not a single magictechnique.
De-escalation is an end state.
It's a goal that's dependent onfactors that largely involve
the subject's behavior.
De-escalation isn't somethingthat a cop does to a subject.
You know.
Really de-escalation is when anofficer recognizes and creates
(31:01):
conditions that facilitate thesuspect in de-escalating his own
aggressive behavior.
There's a lot that we have yetto learn about de-escalation.
You know what it really meansand what are the best practices
for de-escalation in dynamiccircumstances.
But at the end of the dayde-escalation always takes a
(31:23):
back seat to sound officersafety tactics.
We teach officers they've gotto have situational control in
order to really de-escalate thesituation.
Bob Plaschke (31:35):
Well, you know, I think we're running up to, we're
getting near.
I got two more questions foryou before we finish up.
We're getting near.
I got two more questions foryou before we finish up.
The second to last question foryou is if you're, if one could
go back to 1869 and talk to your.
I can't.
I mean great, great, great,great, great, greats there are
(31:57):
in there.
And what would you think theywould say about what you're
doing or what your children aredoing?
What, what do you think theywould?
What, what, what, what wouldcome to mind?
Ken Wallentine (32:13):
Well, first off, I hope there would be pride.
My, my grandson, the son of mydaughter, the deputy sheriff, is
named for my great, great greatgrandfather and I hope that he
would be proud of that.
But I also hope that he would.
He would say, yeah, you gotsome fancy tools and he'd be so
confused by electronic controldevices and to a radio host and
(32:36):
and and pepper spray.
But.
But I hope you would say, well,you're still talking to fellows
and that's you know.
He would go out and go into thewilds to arrest folks on
warrants, all by himself, putthem on the back of a horse and
take them literally a day ormaybe two to where he turned
(32:59):
them into a federal magistrate.
And he did that by talking topeople, he didn't do it by
shooting many.
So I would hope, first off,pride.
And secondly, I hope he wouldsay you're talking to fellas.
Bob Plaschke (33:13):
You know, and I think that is isn't that the?
That is the essence of policingis talking right and then
communicating and andempathizing um, and avoiding the
um, as you say, the telling andthe making um, and it's the
more we talk and the more wetalk about policing, frankly,
(33:34):
probably the better off we areand the more that people can
understand policing, and that,obviously is the purpose of this
podcast.
Well, that last question foryou, chief, is uh, we'd like to
make a small donation in yourname.
Where can we make a donationfor you?
Ken Wallentine (33:51):
The Utah Law Enforcement Memorial Foundation.
It's an organization that Ihelped start many years ago.
We built a beautiful, beautifulmemorial to the fallen officers
on the grounds of our statecapital and now are engaged in a
project where local agenciescan receive some assistance in
erecting smaller memorials forthe fallen officers in their
(34:14):
organization.
So thank you very much.
It's important that we rememberthe sacrifice of those who gave
it all so that we couldcontinue to live in a free
society.
Bob Plaschke (34:26):
Absolutely Amen to that.
I appreciate it.
I couldn't agree more.
For the 150 to 170 officersthat die each year in the line
of duty, it's only appropriate.
It's.
The least we can do is to makesure that their ultimate
sacrifice is acknowledged andrecognized and people you know
(34:48):
100 years from now can look backand understand that they paved
the way for keeping our citiesand towns safe and it's the
right thing to do.
Well, folks, thank you fortaking the time, chief.
I don't think I've ever talkedto a chief or someone involved
who's had 150 years of a legacyof public service.
(35:12):
But they live a creed, theylive a duty and they see it and
their children see it and theirgrandchildren see it.
And you know what, if you thinkabout what you'd like to
(35:35):
emulate, if you think about yourparents and your grandparents,
what you want to emulate, thatis not a bad thing to emulate
which is serving the public.
My name is Bob Plaschke.
I am the CEO of PepperBall.
This is First Response, kind ofa look behind the badge.
Thank you for taking the timeand we'll see you on the next go
(35:57):
around.
Be safe out there.
The front line of policing is loud, but the voices
behind it, you know they're alot louder and, I think, frankly
, a lot more interesting.
Hi, I'm Bob Plaschke and thisis First Response.
This is the number one podcastthat takes you behind the badge
and uncovers real stories andexperiences of first responders
from all walks of life and thetopics that shape public safety
(00:26):
today.
If you're curious about the guyor the gal behind the hero and
they are indeed truly heroes andthe topics that they care about
, take a listen.
This is kind of your front rowseat to hearing some of the
really interesting voices outthere and, more importantly, the
heroes.
This podcast is sponsored byPepperBall, where I have the
honor to serve as CEO.
(00:47):
PepperBall creates unlethalalternatives to guns, at least
used to keep themselves and thepublic safe.
Just excited as heck to haveChief Walentine join me.
Chief Walentine is 40 plusyears in public service and
serving the community.
(01:07):
He is currently the chief ofpolice of the West Jordan Police
Department.
It's been there since 2018.
Most interesting to me or atleast most surprising when we
kind of chatting before westarted here, when we were kind
(01:28):
of chatting before we startedhere is that he comes from a
family of 150 plus years ofpolicing.
I don't think I've met a familythat is Blue Bloods chief in
every respect.
Welcome to the podcast.
Tell me and tell our listeners,how does one have 150 years of
policing experience, so to speak?
Ken Wallentine (01:51):
Well, thanks for that introduction, Bob, and my
kids would tell you we have blueblood, tan blood, green blood,
because we've had DeputySheriff's, Deputy United States
Marshals, one federal agent, myson a federal agent serving
(02:12):
overseas.
But it all started with mygreat-great-great-grandfather
during the Civil War or the Warof Northern Aggression For all
of your listeners down in theSouth and he had occasion to tip
(02:32):
back a few drinks with UlyssesS Grant and, after the war,
became appointed as a DeputyUnited States Marshal in Dodge
City, Kansas, ultimately camewest and became a Deputy US
marshal here in the territorynow the states of Idaho and Utah
, and that just that started uson a roll.
(02:53):
We skipped a generation, but asa kid I lived with my
grandfather, who was the townmarshal where we lived and would
drove a pickup truck, and oftenhis gun was locked up in a
cabinet and he had a 12-inchthick stick that pretty much
ruled the roost in that littletown.
Bob Plaschke (03:14):
Well, you know what, appreciate that,
appreciate the history ofservice and to see that your
children are following your way,that's always a good sign.
That tells me at least, thatyou've served a good career and
have been a good role model.
You know it's interestingPolicing, ivo, and I still
(03:34):
believe it is a profession, it'sa calling and you see it passed
down from generation togeneration.
Do you still see that from yourperspective?
I've heard a number of chiefssay that you know, that's a bit
of that luster is kind of wornoff and it's not as much of a
calling, it's more of a jobthese days.
(03:56):
But you know, what do you seewhen you're out there?
Ken Wallentine (04:00):
I do think some of the luster has worn off, but
I also think that it's incumbenton us who are police executives
, sheriffs and directors andchiefs of police to keep that
luster well shined.
Shine it up to be in ourdepartments.
(04:22):
We have a five-word saying inmy department that really is the
premise of how we treat eachother and how we treat the
public, and it's you matter,like I matter, and we look out
for the humanity among ourselvesand in our community.
And I think by recruitingofficers who have that concept
(04:44):
that they're there to serveBecause for me it really is a
service career and when you findthe officer who is there
because she wants to get outthere, serve the community and
really help people solveproblems, that's what restores
the luster, that's what restoresthe pride and nobility that I
felt when I joined the policedepartment many years ago and I
(05:07):
think that's incumbent on all ofus.
I think we can do it, but sure,bob, I will admit that we've
lost something, but I feel likemany out there are trying to
regain it.
Bob Plaschke (05:25):
I would agree, and you I think you know it's these
.
These things are a bit of apendulum.
They kind of swing back andforth to some degree and I think
I feel like over the lastcouple of years the policing as
a police, as a, as an industryor as a as a vocation has
started to pick up a bit ofmomentum.
Started to pick up a bit ofmomentum and you know what Kudos
(05:49):
to a lot of police chiefs thathave had to deal with a pretty
tough decade of public reaction.
But I do think it is swingingback and I think people
appreciate what a police agencyand a police staff and a police
officers do on a day-to-daybasis.
In that context, how have youseen policing change?
(06:15):
I mean, you've seen it over thelast 30 years.
You've seen it, probably goodtimes and bad times of you.
If you had to describe the last, you know the last decade or so
, how have you seen from yourpeers, what big changes have you
seen in that time frame?
Ken Wallentine (06:32):
Well, I think we've all got to talk about
technology.
You know, when I started, wecarried revolvers and some still
do.
My daughter, that's a deputysheriff, has inherited my first
six-shot Smith Wesson revolverand she's also inherited to pass
(06:52):
down to my grandson who'sheaded into law enforcement at
some point my 26-inchsecond-growth hickory stick that
I use as a baton.
We certainly didn't haveelectronic control devices.
I remember the training sessionwhere we were introduced to
those and learned some of thelimitations and some of the
(07:15):
abilities of those tools.
And now my officers.
We live in a community where atleast a quarter of the people
in our community at the dinnertable they speak a different
language other than English.
Their first language issomething other than English and
we have dozens of languages.
(07:36):
My city is home to Utah'slargest mosque and we see folks
from Pakistan, from all of theMiddle Eastern countries as well
as sub-Saharan Africancountries.
And the amazing thing is myofficers can go up, push a
button on their body-worn cameraand translate right there with
(07:58):
their body-worn camera.
That kind of technologycertainly did not exist.
We used to get on the phone andcall around and see if we could
find a French speaker.
We had some Spanish speakers.
So that has certainly changed.
The level of training has, Ithink, improved and there's
still a great area for us toimprove there.
(08:20):
When I started you didn't haveto go to the police academy, and
I didn't.
I had four days of training andat the end of four days, the
fifth day, we went and boughtuniforms, got a badge, went to
the city clerk, got sworn in,and the next workday I showed up
and I rode around to someonefor two weeks and then I was a
(08:41):
full-fledged police officer witha 1976 Pontiac LeMans.
That still is the fastestpolice car I was ever in.
But I think one of the mostsignificant changes in law
enforcement is that our jobdescriptions have changed.
Sure, we are there to serve andprotect, we are there to
(09:02):
mitigate the threats in thecommunity, but we're also
expected today to be mentalhealth caseworkers, to be the
front line in a society that hasoh, I don't know how to
describe it.
I still say that it's a crisisin the world of the mentally ill
and the profoundly emotionallydisturbed in our community, and
(09:26):
when I started that it justwasn't really much of an issue.
And I think the final changethat I've seen is the
expectation that we have fromthe community about our police
officers.
You know, post-covid,post-george Floyd, post many of
the influences that we saw inthe last 10 years.
People expect officers to bealmost superhuman in their
(09:49):
performance Unrealistically so,but we still try and meet that
expectation.
Bob Plaschke (09:55):
Yeah, and that's a great kind of overview of what
has, I think, of what has, Ithink, emerged over the last 10
to 20 years.
And you know, if I'm kind ofrepeating it back, you know the
(10:15):
safety nets that used to bethere for whether it be the
families themselves or churchesor communities, and then the
government entities that wouldmanage folks who are in distress
, to your point, those safetynets have by and far disappeared
and they've been thrust ontothe police, and police primarily
(10:36):
.
I mean obviously EMS folks andthe fire departments have to
deal with it, but they're alwaysthe ones called in.
The police are the first on thescene to have to engage, and I
think it's forced agencies, youknow, in a reactive context, to
have to try to change theirtraining and change their
(10:59):
preparation and, to your point,start to apply tools, to bring
in technology, to try to help.
In that sense, when you and Iand I let me ask this question
when an officer joins now, doyou think they really they have
a full sense of the, of the, ofthat expectation of that job
(11:21):
description, or do they stillthink of it as protecting, you
know, in that context,protecting from, you know, from
bad guys, or do they reallybegin to understand how much
wider the scope is?
Ken Wallentine (11:34):
I think that most officers, when they join,
they do not understand thebreadth of the responsibility
and expectations that will beplaced on them and don't
understand how heavy that mantleis to carry day after day.
And it's our responsibility inthe profession.
Whether you're a sergeant and,by the way, I think that the
(11:55):
sergeants, patrol sergeants inmy world are the real heroes of
policing.
They really run the world.
You know, you can have aculture, either by default or a
culture by design.
And and your patrol sergeants,those are the folks who who
enforce the culture that you'retrying to create.
But, um, I think, officers comein and they, they learn bit by
(12:18):
bit and some people fairlyquickly figure out this isn't
for me and others.
Others embrace that role andsay, yeah, I can do this, I can
be a true servant leader if youwill, in uniform and wear the
badge, that's.
You know.
We talk about the origin of thebadge, going back to the.
You know the Knights and beingthe Knight's shield, and many of
(12:38):
our officers, I think they dodevelop that mindset.
I will tell you this, bob whenI see that in one of my cops,
when I see that in one of myofficers, my heart just jumps.
I love going down the hallwayin the floor of our building
that houses our patrol unit andour training folks and just
seeing officers who I know areout there to serve and to
(13:02):
protect and not just, in thiscontext of catching bad guys and
, you know, having shootouts anddriving fast.
Bob Plaschke (13:12):
And I think that's where I think the tide is
turning with the public, becauseI think I think there's an
acknowledgement and arecognition.
You know, this is the maybe thebenefit of body cams is that
now you know I, my sons tell meabout watching body cams on Tik
TOK, you know that um um, whichyou know I find amazing, um and
(13:36):
the um um, and that they are um,they're empath, increasingly
empathetic to what situationsofficers have to deal with, and
I think the nature of what thatofficer looks like and what they
are and the kind ofexpectations is changing.
(13:59):
Hopefully maybe I'm an optimisthopefully in an increasingly
positive way, where peopleacknowledge that that role is
different and the type of andthat the empathy they have to
have for that officer needs tobe different.
Right, this is no longer thecop on the sidewalk on a beat.
This is someone completelydifferent.
Ken Wallentine (14:19):
In that context, I think that's true and, at the
same time, we need to make surethat we're providing our
officers with the tools thatthey need to support their own
sense of who they are, their ownsense of nobility as police
officers, and the safety nets,if you will, for them to address
(14:40):
the challenges that they had.
You know, I think back to acritical incident, gosh, nearly
40 years ago, when, when,afterwards, I had no clue what
to do and so I went and bangedon some uh, some neighbor's
house and called the onlyattorney I knew to meet me at
the police station.
(15:01):
And when I got to the policestation, you know, they took me
to the police station and put mein a room.
And, uh, only after about 45minutes, when I really had to go
to the bathroom, did I findthat I was locked in one of our
interview and interrogationrooms.
And, uh, I still can't thinkabout that incident without
becoming very, very emotional.
(15:22):
And at the end of the day, whenI came back to work out for a
few days, I remember sitting inthe locker room, on the floor
you know, rows of lockers inthis big, big locker room and on
the floor just crying because Ididn't know how to process what
(15:45):
I'd done and and we oh my gosh,we have done so much better in
providing our officers tools todeal with their own uh
challenges.
Here in utah we have awonderful program called safe ut
, where officers can put an appon their phone and 24-7, 365,
(16:07):
they can engage in a voice callor a confidential web chat with
a licensed clinical socialworker that has been trained and
experienced in dealing withfirst responders, police
officers, paramedics,firefighters and so forth.
We provide mental healthresources within our
organization.
In our agency, we have yogaprograms.
(16:28):
Officers can use their phone todo some relaxation techniques,
some stress relief techniques.
One other major advance thatwe've seen in public safety is
we're teaching our officersabout the duty to intercede or
the duty to intervene when wesee another officer about to
(16:48):
make a consequential mistake,whether it's a use of force or a
Fourth Amendment intrusion, apotentially wrongful search.
We're teaching officers you are, in fact, your brother's keeper
.
We're teaching officers you are, in fact, your brother's keeper
and it is your responsibilityand part of your oath to step in
and help other officers frommaking mistakes.
And that's great to say.
(17:08):
And I hear a lot of people sayyeah, you have a duty to
intervene, but we've got toteach officers how to do that,
and so we've.
We've seen some great programs,starting in new orleans.
The ethical policing iscourageous.
The epic program which gavebirth to the nationally
circulated, now ABLE programActive Bystandership for Law
Enforcement that's a program ouragency uses with great success.
(17:32):
So we're focusing on giving theofficers the emotional and
mental tools to not just survivea career as a cop but to really
thrive, to be a whole person.
Bob Plaschke (17:45):
So at the end of the day they go home and they
are the greatest father, mother,husband, wife, parent and a
member of the community that'sproud to be a police officer
community, the community that'sproud to be a police officer,
you know, and that's that isabsolutely the the the right
(18:07):
goal, and I always try to tellmy people that I come in contact
with, because the majority offolks that I know personally in
fact, I can't think of anyone Iknow personally that's involved
in in law enforcement.
And I say, you know, we, wealways have to remember that the
person that's walking up to you, you know, have you been pulled
over?
They are a father, mother,brother, sister, parent.
(18:30):
You know their, their kids arein schools with your kids.
It's.
You know there's a, there's a.
They are, they're just like usand they're under a tremendous
amount of stress and atremendous amount of you know
they have leeway, you know, notin a, in a way that would be,
(19:03):
you know, inappropriate, but you, you, you just have to
appreciate what they're goingthrough.
Um, and it's, it's not easy.
I, you, you, you, were tellingme before we, we started this
podcast, that your, um, yourdaughter, who's a deputy
Marshall, um, you said yesterday, on Sunday, what did she text
you?
Which I thought was a greatexample of what police officers
(19:28):
deal with.
What happened again on Sunday?
Ken Wallentine (19:30):
Well, first off, I'm grateful she didn't text my
wife.
She sent me a text early in themorning saying she sent me a
text early in the morning thatjust said Dad, I'm okay, talk
later.
And I had received a text likethat from her many many years
(19:53):
ago, right after a gunfight andyeah, that was.
I tell you what.
You can be involved in a deadlyforce incident and walk away
with some emotion.
But you know, when one of yourkids, your own daughter's
involved in a gunfight, that's awhole different bottle of wax
and she and some other deputiesyesterday folks she works with
(20:15):
at the sheriff's office they hadresponded on a burglary alarm
at a gun club and you know, whenyou find a gun club you often
find guns and ammunition.
The suspect was able to getaway before they had a perimeter
and they were able to track himdown, found the trail and he
(20:35):
had holed up in a car in acampground.
Now it's summer here in Utah,just like it is everywhere else,
and people were in thatcampground.
This was a very precarioussituation and he was armed with
a long-range rifle.
Obviously we know as cops thatour vests are not designed to
(20:56):
protect against rifle rounds,the calibers that we see in
hunting, like a .300 WinchesterMagnum or a .270.
So they had to deal with themat a standoff distance and every
one of those deputies I know mydaughter was, because we spoke
later, but every one of thosedeputies was mindful of the fact
(21:17):
that just last week here inUtahah we lost two very fine
police officers uh to a domesticviolence perpetrator who
ambushed the officers with withlong-range hunting rifle.
Uh, fortunately yesterday theuh negotiations worked.
After about an hour this, thisguy surrendered, um, but that's
(21:39):
the sort of thing you know.
We still police humanswith humans.
Sometimes people forget, as yousaid, everybody who walks up to
the car, everybody whoinvestigates the, the burglar or
the armed robbery.
They are someone's son,daughter, maybe husband, wife
and and parent.
I think of this.
Uh, over the weekend the policeofficers who were killed were
(22:02):
killed in a very small town inrural Utah I think the town has
maybe 2,000 residents at most.
It was a 16-officer policedepartment and there were a
couple of high school kids didnot know these officers and they
had high school football kidsand they went out and set up a
(22:23):
lemonade stand and were able tocollect about a thousand, a
little over a thousand dollarsat a
lemonade stand.
The county fair was this lastweekend.
They didn't cancel it, butthere was a third deputy who was
shot and his police service dogwas shot and fortunately he was
able to be there in the rodeoarena.
But to see the response of asmall town, everybody in that
(22:49):
town turning out grateful fortheir police officers, and I
just think how many of youthought to thank a cop before
two officers died and left, ineach case, families and in in
one of them this morning in thenewspaper there's a picture of
this, this officer with his, hislittle league team that he
coached.
The impact is just tremendous.
(23:11):
So every time you deal with apolice officer, pause and think,
pause and think.
What is this officer?
What is, what does he or shebring to the table today?
Bob Plaschke (23:22):
Amen to that.
I mean, I think that's you know,I think the policing has done,
you know, I think, to its credit, it's done a great job of being
infinitely or significantlymore empathetic to the
situations they're encountering.
I mean, the, the old policechiefs used to tell me it was um
, I'm going to ask you, I'mgoing to tell you and I'm going
(23:44):
to make you right, um, and youknow the uh and that was you
know, I guess maybe appropriateif someone's breaking the law.
But in the situations thatpolice deal with, now that you
know that that isn't, you know,that isn't the, you can't do
that and they don't do that.
They, you know, that's a lotmore about engaging, listening
empathetically, trying tounderstand the situation the
(24:06):
person's in, while keepingeveryone safe.
You know, you, you want thecitizens to have the exact same
empathy for the policemanwalking up to the police officer
walking up to the car, becauseyou know to your point, you have
no idea what they, just whatthey may have been through that
morning or that night or thatlast week.
(24:27):
What is, if it is, if the old isask, tell, make.
What is the new?
What do you train your officersto do?
Now, in that context.
What's the analogy for that?
Ken Wallentine (24:39):
I just bristle when I hear ask, don't make.
If I had to simplify it, Iwould say ask, explain, persuade
, direct and when you have tomake, and very often by using
effective communicationtechniques, by listening.
(25:02):
And we have a great trainingprogram it's called Developing
and Implementing an OutwardMindset, by teaching officers
how to listen for the needs ofthe other individual and figure
out how do I address thisperson's needs, how do I get
them to do what I need them todo and how can I help facilitate
that process by seeing whattheir needs are.
(25:23):
You know, much less force isused, and you're absolutely
right.
I do remember an instructor 43years ago telling me ask, tell,
make.
And boy, I did that for a longtime and it didn't work so well.
No it really didn't.
And now we teach officersreally to engage the viewing
(25:46):
audience and so you get tochoose what will be recorded for
(26:07):
posterity in your actions.
And remember this when you makepeople angry, when you tell
people don't cooperate, theydon't consent, they don't
confess.
So the worst thing you can dois make tell they don't confess.
Bob Plaschke (26:23):
So the worst thing you can do is make tell Amen to
that.
No, I think it's right.
It's not easy, though, andthat's what my sons tell me.
And I see the body worn fromwhen people use our technology,
use the pepper ball, and I seethose probably three or four
(26:52):
times a week and, and you know,you, just, you gotta, you, um,
you gotta I don't know if theright word take a deep breath
and really appreciate what theseofficers have to deal with,
because these people, whetherthey're mentally challenged and
having a bad day, you know theyare um, they are not Um, it's.
You know, this isn't liketalking to your neighbor Um, it
is, it is.
It is a hard environment.
There's a lot going on aroundyou.
There's a lot of noise, there's, you know, people videotaping
(27:12):
you.
It is.
You know, to your point, you'rea, you're an actor, but you
it's.
You're like being thrown into aplay you didn't want to write,
right, I mean, it's not what you, it's not a play that you wrote
, and then you have to figure itout on the run.
You have to figure it out inreal time.
How do you try to respond andhow do you try to deal?
(27:35):
You know, on that note.
How many hours of training dopolice officers get per year?
I mean, how does that breakdown?
I mean, is it weeks of training?
Is it days of training?
I mean I don't think I've everasked that question.
Ken Wallentine (27:46):
Well, it really.
It depends on a couple thingsFirst, the state statutory or
administrative requirements andthen the agency's commitment and
resources.
Many states have mandatorycontinuing education
requirements ranging from 12hours I've seen 12 hours in a
few states up to 40 it's.
(28:07):
It's 40 hours where we're at,and sometimes there are
mandatory training subjects suchas firearms qualification,
de-escalation, those sorts ofthings, and that, to me, that's
the bare minimum we say.
Every day is a training day.
For years I've been associatedwith a company called Lexipol
that provides daily trainingbulletins.
(28:30):
Officers get trained literallyevery day, six minutes at a time
, and I don't know how manyhours that works out to over the
year.
In our agency we have a fewmore resources.
In our agency, we have a fewmore resources.
We're able to do much moretraining than 40 hours a year
and able to be pretty responsiveto things that we see in the
(28:52):
community.
Where we've got a need toaddress, we can put together a
training program.
I'll give you an example.
Recently we did training on howto produce a quality body-worn
camera video helping officersspeak to the camera so that
they're creating a record forsuccess, whether it's in
(29:13):
prosecution of a criminal caseor in defending a civil case
because someone says they didsomething wrong, and you know
we've seen a notable improvement.
We were in a good place already.
We've seen a notableimprovement.
We were in a good place already, but still seeing a notable
improvement in how some of ourofficers are speaking to the
camera, if you will.
Bob Plaschke (29:33):
You know you mentioned de-escalation.
We talked about that before.
I you PepperBall, is aquote-unquote de-escalation tool
, but I loved how you talkedabout de-escalation and, if you
wouldn't mind, just going backover that topic as we discussed
it.
Ken Wallentine (29:53):
Well, and you know, PepperBall is something we
have in our inventory ofde-escalation tools and it's a
fabulous option for standoffde-escalation tools.
And it's a fabulous option forstandoff de-escalation.
One thing some people don'tunderstand, bob, is that a use
of force can actually bede-escalation.
If we can cause someone tomodify their behavior with a
(30:16):
chemical irritant, with a pepperball in place of shooting and
killing them, I'll take that anyday.
That's a success.
But many people think thatde-escalation is a tactic.
It's not a tactic.
It's a goal that officers tryvery hard to achieve through
communication, through othersoft skills.
(30:39):
It's not a single magictechnique.
De-escalation is an end state.
It's a goal that's dependent onfactors that largely involve
the subject's behavior.
De-escalation isn't somethingthat a cop does to a subject.
You know.
Really de-escalation is when anofficer recognizes and creates
(31:01):
conditions that facilitate thesuspect in de-escalating his own
aggressive behavior.
There's a lot that we have yetto learn about de-escalation.
You know what it really meansand what are the best practices
for de-escalation in dynamiccircumstances.
But at the end of the dayde-escalation always takes a
(31:23):
back seat to sound officersafety tactics.
We teach officers they've gotto have situational control in
order to really de-escalate thesituation.
Bob Plaschke (31:35):
Well, you know, I think we're running up to, we're
getting near.
I got two more questions foryou before we finish up.
We're getting near.
I got two more questions foryou before we finish up.
The second to last question foryou is if you're, if one could
go back to 1869 and talk to your.
I can't.
I mean great, great, great,great, great, greats there are
(31:57):
in there.
And what would you think theywould say about what you're
doing or what your children aredoing?
What, what do you think theywould?
What, what, what, what wouldcome to mind?
Ken Wallentine (32:13):
Well, first off, I hope there would be pride.
My, my grandson, the son of mydaughter, the deputy sheriff, is
named for my great, great greatgrandfather and I hope that he
would be proud of that.
But I also hope that he would.
He would say, yeah, you gotsome fancy tools and he'd be so
confused by electronic controldevices and to a radio host and
(32:36):
and and pepper spray.
But.
But I hope you would say, well,you're still talking to fellows
and that's you know.
He would go out and go into thewilds to arrest folks on
warrants, all by himself, putthem on the back of a horse and
take them literally a day ormaybe two to where he turned
(32:59):
them into a federal magistrate.
And he did that by talking topeople, he didn't do it by
shooting many.
So I would hope, first off,pride.
And secondly, I hope he wouldsay you're talking to fellas.
Bob Plaschke (33:13):
You know, and I think that is isn't that the?
That is the essence of policingis talking right and then
communicating and andempathizing um, and avoiding the
um, as you say, the telling andthe making um, and it's the
more we talk and the more wetalk about policing, frankly,
(33:34):
probably the better off we areand the more that people can
understand policing, and that,obviously is the purpose of this
podcast.
Well, that last question foryou, chief, is uh, we'd like to
make a small donation in yourname.
Where can we make a donationfor you?
Ken Wallentine (33:51):
The Utah Law Enforcement Memorial Foundation.
It's an organization that Ihelped start many years ago.
We built a beautiful, beautifulmemorial to the fallen officers
on the grounds of our statecapital and now are engaged in a
project where local agenciescan receive some assistance in
erecting smaller memorials forthe fallen officers in their
(34:14):
organization.
So thank you very much.
It's important that we rememberthe sacrifice of those who gave
it all so that we couldcontinue to live in a free
society.
Bob Plaschke (34:26):
Absolutely Amen to that.
I appreciate it.
I couldn't agree more.
For the 150 to 170 officersthat die each year in the line
of duty, it's only appropriate.
It's.
The least we can do is to makesure that their ultimate
sacrifice is acknowledged andrecognized and people you know
(34:48):
100 years from now can look backand understand that they paved
the way for keeping our citiesand towns safe and it's the
right thing to do.
Well, folks, thank you fortaking the time, chief.
I don't think I've ever talkedto a chief or someone involved
who's had 150 years of a legacyof public service.
(35:12):
But they live a creed, theylive a duty and they see it and
their children see it and theirgrandchildren see it.
And you know what, if you thinkabout what you'd like to
(35:35):
emulate, if you think about yourparents and your grandparents,
what you want to emulate, thatis not a bad thing to emulate
which is serving the public.
My name is Bob Plaschke.
I am the CEO of PepperBall.
This is First Response, kind ofa look behind the badge.
Thank you for taking the timeand we'll see you on the next go
(35:57):
around.
Be safe out there.
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