June 17, 2025 • 48 mins
In this week’s episode, we’re sitting down with Lindsay—Kaina's former collegiate volleyball teammate, powerhouse communicator, and the kind of woman who can call out your BS with grace (it's her superpower, no joke). We talk about what it means to carry confidence off the court, how to confront others without losing your cool, and what happens when the “life plan” you were so sure of doesn’t work out. Lindsay opens up about her self-love journey, life after competitive sports, grappling with body image and food struggles, and redefining success after not passing the LSAT twice. Through it all, she remained rooted in her inner worth and ultimately found her calling in communications and advertising. We also explore how being an educated Black woman shaped her ambition, self-perception, and her desire to make an impact in whatever she does. This episode is for anyone who’s faced a hard pivot in life, struggled with finding their own voice or value, or just wants a masterclass in speaking up while staying grounded.
- Join the conversation: How can you embrace the power of the pivot? If you struggle to speak up, who are you keeping the peace for? Share your reflections in the comments or via our social media.
- What She Said: Lindsay shares a short, profound mantra that has helped her move through the no's in life. Tune in to hear it!
- Where to find Lindsay: https://linktr.ee/LindsayDeVore1
- Follow us on TikTok and Instagram @generationalteapod, watch us on YouTube, and listen to us wherever you get your podcasts!
- Microphone flags by Impact PBS
- Intro music by Cymatix
- Logo by @makariann
- Business email: generationalteapod@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kaina G (00:11):
Well welcome everybody to Generational Tea Podcast.
I'm Cana.
And I'm Ronnie.
And we have a very special guestand one of my close college
friends.
Lindsay, welcome.
Lindsay.
So awkward.
Not really.
It's okay.
We have a lot of awkwardmoments, so if we do, just know
(00:34):
that I'll just edit those littlejokers right now.
Yes.
Don't even worry about it.
Yes, thank you.
And if you like stutter, saylike a million filler words.
I got you.
Edit.
Yes, I, I'll make you look good.
I'll do my job, I swear.
Alright, well we're gonna getdown to the questions'cause I
know it's getting late yourguys' time.
Well, late-ish.
So Lindsay and I played collegevolleyball together and I
(00:57):
remember always admiring you andlooking up to you and.
Just at this point in my life,I'm happy to have you on the
podcast'cause I feel like you'rea really great example and role
model for me as a woman.
So let's, let's stick into thesequestions.
For our audience and those thatdon't really know you, how would
you describe yourself today andhow has that version changed
since college?
(01:17):
Yeah.
Today I would definitelydescribe myself as ambitious,
creative, and compassionate.
I just graduated with mymaster's in advertising at York
City, Tennessee.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
And this is the first time whereI've like, looked up.
I feel like I've been like thisfor the past, like six years of
doing school.
(01:37):
That's the first time I'm beinglike, okay, like, what does
Lindsay want?
And I call like, my season ofbecoming nice, becoming what
we're not sure, but we're onthis journey and I'm just
excited to see like where itgoes.
Yeah.
That's really cool.
That's awesome.
I like that idea of becoming,and I feel like that's very
true.
You've just been like grindingaway, I mean, ever since I met
you, really.
And now I'm excited that you'rereally gonna like, get out of
(02:00):
school and really like, pursuelife.
That's really exciting.
Yeah.
when we played volleyballtogether, and kind of like I
just said, I remember beingstruck by how confident and
grounded you were at such ayoung age.
As someone that was like so faron the opposite end of the
spectrum, I felt like I was.
Really insecure and soft spoken,and I never spoke my mind.
And then you came in to my lifeand I was like, oh my gosh, like
(02:21):
who is this?
Like who is this?
And how can I get to be likeher?
Yes.
So that confidence, even as likeearly in college, was that
something you were raised withor did you really cultivate that
yourself before coming tocollege?
It's funny that you say thatbecause in college I feel like I
was in my own little worldtrying to like, navigate, and
I'm the type of person I feellike externally I come off.
(02:44):
Like I have it all together, butinternally I'm like, you know.
And it was definitely built overtime.
I've, mm-hmm.
I've done a lot of, self-helpbooks specifically, I just love
a good self-help book, likeGentle Reminders by Brianna
West.
Okay.
That got me through.
What?
What'd you say?
Gentle reminders.
Gentle reminder.
(03:05):
Cana, can you put that in theshow notes?
Yes.
Yeah.
Have you read it too?
No, I have it.
Okay.
Is that the girl that writesthat book?
The Mountain is you?
I think so.
I think I've heard her namebefore, but I haven't read any
of her books.
Yeah, she has another one that'slike when you're ready to heal.
Read when you're ready to heal.
Something like that.
It's a great book too, but,okay.
At that time I was doing a lotof books.
(03:25):
I was watching a lot ofpodcasts, which they weren't,
podcasts weren't really a thingwhen we were in college.
It was more so just like YouTubevideos.
Yeah.
That people were just likethrowing together.
I was doing a lot of that andthen just kind of on this self
love journey.
I feel like I've been on allthroughout college, and then it
just like grew.
I've even done the whole likepost-it note, you put it on Your
mirror and like do affirmationsjust'cause I feel like when you
(03:49):
believe it yourself and you seeit all the time, it just becomes
innate and a part of you.
yeah.
Okay.
That's cool.
What do you feel like with allthese, like self-help books and
like self-care hacks andaffirmation, all that, what do
you feel like has been like the,like maybe like top two or top
three most effective thingsyou've read about or found or
tried?
And I'm putting you on the spot'cause I wasn't on the question
(04:10):
list, but yeah, you can use asub question.
It's okay.
One thing I've really had tolearn is how to regulate my
emotions.
Like that's something I wasn'treally taught, especially within
like the black community we'retaught really just like be
strong.
College is supposed to be hard.
Keep your head down, likeyou'll, you'll figure it out and
like, no, like you're, if you'restruggling, you should go seek
help.
Seek help can mean differentthings.
Like it could maybe mean you goto a counselor if you're
(04:32):
comfortable, go to a therapist.
For me, I didn't feel like itwas that bad.
And I hate to say it like that,but I didn't feel like it was
bad enough for, I needed toseek.
But honestly, maybe I justdidn't feel confident too.
Like if that was my environmentand everybody around me was
doing that, maybe I would have,but I just chose to, I hate to
say self-medicate because thatsounds awful, but I chose to
find my own avenue and from thatit made me realize like one, I
(04:54):
need to learn how to regulate myemotions, and be able to talk
through them.
So I've done a lot of likebreath work.
Which I thought was silly.
Okay.
I'm not gonna lie, I thought itwas so silly.
I've done a lot of affirmations,especially when I'm feeling
anxious.
I'll just be like, I'm capableor I deserve this.
Or like, I'm lovable.
Just like small stuff like thatto remind myself like I can do
(05:16):
hard things.
Mm-hmm.
And that they're not as dauntingas I make them.
They feel big in the moment, butin reality, like they're not
that big.
Yeah.
So that's something that'shelped me get through those like
moments where I'm playinganxious or nothing.
I do, when I'm presenting, I'lllike hold my hand like this.
Well, it'll be like this to youand I'd be standing normal, but
I'll like tap my hand like that.
(05:36):
Mm-hmm.
Um, so I don't shake.
Oh wow.
We will rock.
Or they'll tap and like, I'lljust, my hands look like this so
you don't see me.
Like really like touch it, butit helps calm myself down.
That's a hack for my job on thefloor.
No.
'cause whenever I'm publicspeaking, I'm always like
shaking or I'm very fidgety andI wanna stop doing that.
So yeah, you should try it.
(05:57):
Okay.
Another tip my dad always toldme was, he was like, he would
always go like this and like,that's the pace you need to
talk.
Oh, okay.
And that so, because when I getnervous I start talking like,
like so fast.
Yeah, same.
And people like slow down.
So that's something else thatI'd like implemented too.
Okay.
(06:17):
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's, that's reallycool.
Definitely good hacks.
And I also have read a lot oflike self-help stuff and we've
talked about a lot of self-helptopics on this podcast.
And like so much of it goes backto emotional regulation.
Mm-hmm.
And it's crazy that like, Idon't feel like I was taught it
and I think Ronnie, you agreetoo.
Oh my gosh.
And it's just like the key tolife, I feel like, especially
(06:39):
when you're an adult and thingsare hard and life is coming at
you really fast.
Yeah.
Like you have to be able toregulate your emotions, but it's
so hard.
But it's so hard.
It is.
You, my friend, you have what Ihave.
You have a superpower forcalling people out without
blowing up or shrinking down.
Tell us how you learn toconfront others so directly, but
(07:00):
yet gracefully and honoringthem, Tell us about how you deal
with that.
What, what's behind?
Yeah.
My family is super honest andthat's where I learned it from
and I didn't realize I was beingblunt or like calling people
out.
'cause that's just, that's afact.
Like that's what happened.
So let's talk about it.
Yeah.
And as I've gotten older, I'mlike, oh, other people are not
(07:23):
like that.
Yeah, totally.
As I'm like, oh.
Maybe it, it was true, but maybeI should not have said it like
that.
And as I've gotten older, I'verealized there's a difference
between like honesty andtransparency.
Like you can be honest.
Yes.
Like to me, honesty is like Ijust tell you what it is.
Matter of fact, transparency haslike a level of vulnerability
(07:46):
within it where it's like, I'mbeing honest, but you didn't
have to ask me.
Like, I'm telling you.
And here's the other layers too.
Like, you did this, it made mefeel X, Y, and z.
Versus just being like, you didthis and just leaving it there.
Right.
So as I've gotten older, I'mlike, okay, you can be honest,
but you also need to becompassionate within the honesty
and mm-hmm.
There's a time and place for it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Because I used to just behonest.
(08:07):
I didn't care.
Like your feelings were hurt,not my concern.
Move on.
Yeah.
And it wasn't an active thought,but now that I've gotten older
and I'm more aware with my ownemotions and other people's
feelings, I'm like, okay, let'stake a step back.
You can be honest with alsoconsidering their feelings with
what you're about to say.
One thing I've started doingwith my friends, um, I started
(08:29):
doing with my friends, but I'll,I'll say like, do you want my
honest opinion right now?
Or do you want support?
Because some people just aren'tin a position where they want
the honesty so bluntly, theyjust want you to listen and not
help me like through a lot of myfriendships.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a great point.
And I think the distinctionbetween transparency and.
Outright confrontation is, isvery important.
(08:51):
And I like that you highlightedthat because there is a way to
do it in a right way.
Just a side note on thatquestion, I always was so very
impressed that you were able todo it.
And then like I know like whenyou were saying earlier, like on
the outside you're like calm,cool and collected, but on the
inside you're like freaking out.
Mm-hmm.
So that's good to know becausein my head, it's either or, like
I have to be calm in the insideto be calm on the outside, but
(09:12):
that's not necessarily the case.
And I feel like you've done avery great job of being able to
confront people in a classy way,but also a way that is like,
yeah, it's a fact and it needsto be said out loud and like not
everyone has the courage to doit, but you do.
And don't ever back down fromthat because throughout your
life.
You will have revelations it'snot like you're fortune telling
(09:35):
or anything, but the way you seethe world is so different.
It's almost, some people useempathic that you know how
somebody feels when they walkinto the room.
Yeah.
Or you know that, person that,it comes to your mind and you're
like, I need to call her.
Don't forget it because thereare so many times that I'm like,
(09:55):
Cana, are you okay?
Because I'm feeling, and wehaven't talked nothing.
Nothing.
And I'll, because I'll say, youknow, I'm just feeling like
maybe you might be a littlestressed today or whatever.
So you're good with that.
Good for you.
You're so good that that.
That is a superpower.
Yeah.
Well, I feel like it's asuperpower, especially as a
(10:15):
woman, and this bridges into ournext question.
I think a lot of women areraised to be the peacemakers and
the people pleasers.
Like I think that's just a verywoman experience that we're kind
of raised that way.
And whether that comes from likegender things and whatever,
doesn't matter.
But I wanna give you a platformbecause I feel like you do the
opposite, so well, what wouldyou say to women that are trying
to unlearn things like that andhelp find their voice?
(10:38):
I would say, when you're keepingthe peace, who are you keeping
the peace?
Like whom are you keeping thepeace from?
Um, I feel like when you keepthe peace for other people,
you're doing it for them andthen you're in turmoil about it,
but you live with you every day.
So like, why would you live withyourself every day?
Like, feeling less than, orfeeling unheard or feeling
(11:00):
unappreciated in whateverenvironment that you're in.
Mm-hmm.
So like that's what motivates meto speak up.
Because I would rather saysomething and it not work out,
in my opinion, be heard than tohave to like hold it in.
It's like when you harbor it in,you're gonna explode.
And then people look at what youexploded at and be like, you're
overreacting.
But really it's all these layersthat they mm-hmm.
Yeah.
(11:21):
Yes.
And I feel as women, we, we justpack it on.
We just keep going, we keepgoing.
Mm-hmm.
And then something small happenslike.
Someone forgot to take the trashout or your laundry, shrunk your
favorite shirt and you justspazz out.
Yeah.
You're like, we can get you yourshirt.
We can go take the trash out.
And you're like, it's not that.
It's all these other things.
So I think when you get it atthe small, like the micro level,
(11:43):
it doesn't have to blow up tothe big level.
And then as you start callingout the smaller things, it just
gets more comfortable for you.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
To be able to do that.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it definitely does.
I feel like that's somethingI've had to learn in in recent
years and.
For me, I realized how much ofit was a matter of like
self-respect for myself and alsolike my self-esteem.
So when I was keeping quiet incertain moments or I didn't have
(12:04):
the courage to like just believein my voice and believe the
things that I said that I like,were think was thinking had
value to like speak out loud andover time, like me being quiet
or people pleasing or trying tokeep peace for whatever reason
now, like a few years down theroad, I'm like, oh my gosh.
Well, I'm wondering why I hatemyself and it's because I don't
believe in myself.
Like I don't have the courage tolike.
(12:24):
Believe in my own voice and Iwas like, oh my gosh, how did I
get here?
I also think People will treatyou the way you tolerate them,
if that makes sense.
I'm trying to say like basicallythe things you accept is how
people are gonna treat you.
So if you constantly don't shareyour voice, they're gonna
constantly keep overstepping.
'cause one, they might not knowit's an issue or two, they might
(12:44):
not care.
They can go.
Yeah, right way, but, but Iwould rather, you know, it's a
boundary and if you cross it,then I will no longer be there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you have to establish thosethings.
So early in a relationship,we've got a family situation
going down on our side of.
(13:05):
Gem side and it's gonna have tobe handled with so much care.
Yeah, that's very delicate.
Um, it's a very delicate thing,but I'm trying to encourage my
husband, like set the boundariesearly and stick to'em and
communicate'em.
I feel like we hear everythingabout setting boundaries and
(13:27):
even keeping that, but mm-hmm.
I feel like we need to know moreabout how to relay.
Mm-hmm.
That boundary to that person,you know, it's not fair to put
up a fence around something andthen not tell'em why or not why.
Right.
But, but just, you know, thisinvisible fence.
If they know, you know, you canonly call me between six and
(13:48):
seven or something like that,and you stick to that and you
don't answer the phone at fiveafter seven, unless obviously
it's like a major emergency.
That's obviously different, butjust kind of.
Establishing that, and to methat's one of the best care
things that we can do forourselves mm-hmm.
Is like, get something like thatin place.
(14:10):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So that when you're dealing withtough times, you, you have an
out, you have things that you'vesaid if this, this, and this
happens, we're not doing that.
But yeah.
Anyhow, so, man, if we had anickel for every time we said
the word boundaries on thispodcast.
It is so, so true.
You probably have like a dollar50 or something.
Let them let them That one too.
(14:34):
Yes.
Did you read that one?
Yes, I have you.
But I've seen her podcast.
Oh yes, it's good.
Yeah, that was probably myfavorite self-help book that
I've read to date.
It was just like so easy and Ifeel like I like immediately
notice the impact.
It's, but yeah.
Yeah.
You'll have to lemme know whatyou think after you read it.
It is not your typical boringself-help book.
(14:55):
You know, like, you know whatI'm talking about.
Like, you get in and you're realenticed in the first chapter and
then all of a sudden it justlike gets technical or there's
all these steps.
Hers is just very good the wayshe writes.
And yeah, you can read onechapter and if somebody stole
the book from you, it wouldchange your life.
Just that one chapter ofwhatever it is.
(15:16):
But yeah, that's good.
Okay.
Yeah, that's really cool.
Now let's talk about if thesuperpower is not well received.
Have you ever had a moment wherespeaking up didn't go how you
hoped?
Does your superpower backfire?
That's what I wanted to know.
Yeah, it does.
(15:36):
I've never, I'm a hundredpercent I.
No, like I've had to learn,mainly my superpower when it
comes to other people's emotionsand feelings, it's backfired.
Mm-hmm.
For instance, there have beentimes where I have called
someone out or said how, whattheir behavior is doing, how it
makes me feel uncomfortable, andthey haven't been in a receiving
(15:57):
posture.
And it's hard when you tellsomebody how they're affecting
you and then they don't make theeffort to fix it.
Because on their end, maybe theydon't have the emotional
capacity to do that.
And I've definitely hadfriendships like that where I'm
saying, this is what I need.
Or even previous relationships,I'm like, this is what I need.
And they're not able to like doit.
(16:18):
'cause like I need this, theycan only gimme this much.
And like, that's not their faultnecessarily, but it's like I'm
still being impacted.
Yeah.
So that's definitely times wheremy, I'm like, okay, I do have
the superpower, but it's notalways gonna win.
Right.
Because.
You know, I, you can't controlother people.
You can't control how they'regonna respond or react.
Mm-hmm.
That's another thing.
When you are confrontational,you kind of are speaking up for
(16:42):
yourself because you don't knowhow they're gonna respond.
Right.
But you're not doing it forthem.
You're doing it for you.
Yes.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Emphasis on that part.
Yes.
Alright, well, are you ready totalk about our mutual identity
crisis?
I'm gonna have coffee or, Imean, it's in, it's in the past,
but I mean, yeah.
Well anyway, we're gonna, yes,it's the B word volleyball.
(17:06):
We both spent years, days, hoursand hours being athletes and
it's kind of become part of whowe are, even though we're very
different people nowpost-college.
But I wanted to discuss on thepodcast with you about just
really general identity crisisthat comes after college sport.
So what was that transition likefor you?
All?
The good, all the bad.
I wanna hear it.
(17:27):
Yeah, it was tough.
Granted, we both graduated inCOVID, so it was already, the
world was already, yeah.
Extra tough.
Extra tough.
I feel like COVID people eithergot really in shape or they like
gained a bunch of weight, likeit was either or.
Mm-hmm.
And I really lost myself.
Especially once I started gradschool.
It was the first time I hadschool without sports and it
(17:48):
showed.
I had gained like, almost like20 pounds my first year of grad
school just because I like to goeat with my friends.
I wasn't moving as much.
A lot of my classes were online,or I wasn't like nearly as
active.
Mm-hmm.
But to the like, athletic point,I feel like going from the
structure to nothing reallymessed with my mind.
(18:10):
During COVID.
Sorry, I'm kind of But you'regood.
That that really messed with mementally.
'cause I was just so used tohaving this structure.
This is how today's gonna look.
This is how tomorrow's gonnalook.
And going from that to nothing.
And then on top of the world wasclosed.
Mm-hmm.
I was like, oh my God, what amI?
Most people are like, I have allthis free time.
(18:31):
I was like, how am I gonna fillit?
Well on that, now I'm gonnainterrupt you.
I think it's interesting becauseathletes are viewed as very
disciplined people, but likealso we are provided that
structure.
Like there is some degree oflike self-discipline, like when
you're doing workouts outside oflike the normal weights or
whatever.
But like, I felt the same thingwhere I felt like I was so
(18:53):
disciplined and accomplished andthen post-college I was like, I
am a mess.
I'm so lazy.
Like I, I don't know how to dothis myself.
I feel that.
And then I, towards the end ofit, I finally got my power back
and I was like, I.
Don't have to do these liftsanymore because I was still
doing our volleyball lifts andsome of them I hated.
They're pretty, I would neverpower clean ever again.
(19:15):
I'll never hang clean any clean.
You will not catch me doing.
Do you know what the specificmoment I'm thinking of right
now?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I don't remember.
I think it was maybe my freshmanyear, sophomore year, but we
were.
Power cleaning.
And you like almost got crushedby the bar.
Wasn't Yeah, because at timesthey were throw weight on it and
(19:36):
I'm like, this is heavy.
Like, I know my limits, I knowmy limits.
You know, Johnny and them werelike, just throw the weight.
And I'm like, it's heavy, youknow?
Mm-hmm.
I will never do lifts like thatagain, but I realized I've had
to adjust, like there's so manydifferent types of workouts, you
know, like with the rise, likePilates lag.
Yeah.
Like all stuff like that.
I used to feel like if I wasn'tdrenched in sweat, like balls,
(19:58):
the walls and I didn't work out,like going on a walk was not a
workout.
To me, that was just like, why'dyou go?
Were you sweating?
Like that's how I felt.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I had to adjust my mindsetto be like, no, movement is the,
is the key.
We're not trying to, you know,work out like I did in college
where I'm burning like 500calories in a workout.
Like, that's not how I like toworkout anymore.
(20:19):
So I've been shifting my mindsetto that and being like, okay, I
like.
Low impact with weight lifting.
You know, you don't, it doesn'thave to be either or It can be
both.
Like I don't have to just dothis high intensity training.
Mm-hmm.
And I don't feel like,especially kind of with the
cycle sinking, sometimes I'mjust tired.
Mm-hmm.
Or I don't have the time or Idon't feel in the gym.
I wanna do something at home.
(20:39):
So I've been resetting my mindto be like, we're just getting a
movement and mobility so you canbe, he a healthier person.
Mm-hmm.
And it is a total random sidenote, but I also had to
disconnect from being a studentathlete, like the body type of
that.
And like the way you lift tohave that body versus like when
you're not that anymore wasreally messing with me.
Mm-hmm.
Because my body obviouslychanged.
(20:59):
I've gotten older, my bodyshifted.
They say you hit another likegrowth thing at 25 and it
definitely hit me.
Oh no, it definitely, itdefinitely hit me.
Your metabolisms slows down.
But that's been a big shift forme too, that I've been like
navigating and I'm trying to setmyself up for the rest of my
life.
Like something that'ssustainable versus just right.
(21:20):
Falls to the walls all the timebecause it just wasn't stable
for me.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, I think those are a lot ofgood points and stuff that I
relate to.
And we've talked about thisprivately too, but feel like
there's just so many mindsetshifts like you were talking
about with the exercise, likeYeah, when I was an athlete, I
thought walks were stupid.
I was like, why did you go on somany dang walks all the time?
And now that is like my mainform of exercise because I've
(21:41):
like allowed myself to view itas like, I just need to move my
body.
I need to get some sunshine.
I don't need to, like you weresaying, be drenched in sweat.
To feel like I am, whatever.
But yeah, it's just so manymindsets and like around food,
around just like, yeah.
I don't know if you'veexperienced like mindset shifts
or needing to make one aboutaround like your identity or
your purpose.
(22:02):
'cause I know that's something Ireally struggled with, like
always feeling so accomplishedand then you're out in the job
market, which kind of sucks postCOVID.
Like who am I, what do I want todo?
Like I've been thinking aboutvolleyball and just like
surviving for so long that like.
I don't know what I wanna do.
I don't even know who I'manymore.
Yeah, that's how I feel rightnow.
Finishing school is kind oflike, school has become my
(22:23):
identity and now I no longerhave it and I'm trying to
navigate the job space.
It's like been my own challengebecause I told you, I'm finally
looking up and I'm like, okay,what does Lindsay want for like
the rest of my life?
And that's like, I was like, Iwas like, we're still trying to
figure that out, but we'll see.
You're on your way though.
You're making great progress.
Yeah.
(22:44):
Thank you.
Okay.
So really briefly on this note,so I know you kind of mentioned
already your relationship withyour body in terms of like
exercise and all that, but howdid being an athlete shape your
relationship with your body andhow did that change when you
left the sport?
I actually, when I was inathletics, I didn't really care
about my physique, if that makessense.
(23:05):
It was just all about likepower, like I care about my
strength than how I looked.
And then once I graduated and Iwas in.
Like the real world where peopledon't lift like we were lifting
and I'm going to like a PlanetFitness type of gym.
I was like, oh, I'm doing prettygood in comparison.
Yeah, because I feel like whenyou're in an environment where
(23:26):
everybody's lifting that heavyand you're not lifting as heavy,
you feel like, dang, I couldlift heavier.
And then you go into a normalgym where it's just like
everyday people who aren'tathletes, they're like, oh, like
I was doing a lot and it made meappreciate what I was doing in
undergrad.
Mm-hmm.
And one thing I will say I'mforever grateful for being an
athlete is I don't have gymintimidation because I know how
to lift.
(23:48):
Yeah, that's true.
And that's something that I feellike it's taken for granted
because my friends will talkabout how they're intimidated or
they don't know what to do.
And for me, I have so manyworkouts in my head, like if
something's full, I, I know, oh,I can go do this.
It's the same thing.
And that's one thing I'm forevergrateful about being an athlete.
'cause I can go to the gym andfeel confident.
Mm-hmm.
And not worry about if amachine's full, if I can just.
(24:10):
Wait around.
I'm like, no, I'll just dosomething else.
Like I can do this in the samemuscle group.
And I think that's not talkedabout enough.
It's like we had own our ownpersonal trainers for like four
years straight.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, you did.
That's definitely overlooked.
'cause I mean, I feel like youjust said that and I'm like, you
know what?
I've never really appreciatedthat.
But like I have always seen likejust tiktoks are people talking
about like, oh, I'm so scared togo in the gym.
(24:31):
Like it's so intimidating.
Like my friend Kenzie.
Text me all the time.
She's like, I wish you were herebecause I don't wanna go to the
gym by myself.
I have no idea what I'm doing.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, youcan do it.
But then also like I've spent agood many hours of my life in
the gym.
So yeah, that was definitely apro.
As far as like my body image andleaving athletics, it was
definitely rough for me becauseyou go from burning like 2000
(24:52):
calories a day and eating enoughto maintain that.
And then like the food part wasthe hardest piece for me
post-college.
Did you feel like you struggledwith that too?
Yeah, I struggled with the foodbecause I felt like I could eat
anything.
Back to the grad school thing, Igained all that weight because I
was used to being able to eatwhatever and then go burn it off
because we're working out twopeople a day sometimes.
(25:13):
So that was something I reallystruggled with.
And also cooking, like now thatI'm starting to live on my own
and branch out, making healthymeals can be challenging
sometimes.
And that's been, mm-hmm.
Or, or tasty healthy mealsrather, because I've made some
healthy meals.
Very good.
Yeah, like navigating that'sspace too, as an adult has been
challenging.
(25:33):
Yeah.
But I've been finding enjoymentin it.
It's just like experimenting andlike, as I've been more in the
kitchen, I kind of get a tastefor things.
I'm like, oh, this would go goodwith that.
This would go good with that.
Yeah.
And I'm like, okay, how can Imake this healthier?
Like, you can use Greek yogurt.
As a replacement for heavy, likeheavy cream.
I didn't know that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, TikTok University told methat.
Yes.
Oh my gosh, I, that'sinteresting.
(25:55):
I don't know if we like talkedabout this recently, but I also
love cooking now, which is funnybecause Really because that was
very opposite in the past.
But yeah, that's like myself-care every night.
I like, don't even think aboutcooking.
Was it good?
Oh God, I don't know.
I don't think it was good.
It was like chicken and salad.
I remember it was at yourapartment.
(26:15):
I think I remember that and nowlike thinking about the meals I
make today, I am like, you'vedefinitely grown.
Yeah.
Well I feel like when you're anathlete, especially a student
athlete, like sometimes you justdon't learn how to do adult
things.
Like Yeah, because taking careof day, you had, we had meal
plans and then we got fed likealmost every day or every game
(26:37):
day, like twice a day.
So you don't really think aboutit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was pretty rough when likepost-college and me and Weston
started living together.
Honey, we were eating spaghettievery week, sometimes two times
a week, some microwave meals.
He loved it too.
I bet he ate that up.
Looking back, I'm like, oh mygosh.
'cause now I'm cooking likegourmet meals every night, but
(26:58):
yeah.
Yeah.
Look how far we've come since.
Golly.
Alright, well let's move on toour next topic, and that's gonna
be career curve balls.
So.
I remember after college youwere all in on law school and
you had been studying so hardand preparing for this future
you envisioned, and I rememberit was my wedding week and you
were there and you weredevastated by your LSAT results.
(27:20):
What helped you move to thatdisappointment and shift your
focus?
'cause I'm sure that's somethinga lot of people have experienced
with a lot of different things.
So you get so focused on acertain outcome and it ends up
not being for you.
So what helped you move throughthat?
Yeah, I remember that.
I was so devastated.
But it was one of those, it waslike your wedding, so I didn't
wanna be No, it was yourbachelorette.
Your bachelorette.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was like, I can't make thisabout me.
(27:42):
I can't make it about, and Istarted like busted.
I busted on tears, but the shiftI had made to cry.
Another thing, learning how toregulate my emotions, like it's
okay to be sad, it's okay tocross.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And just like have the momentand then like leave it there
versus like trying to harbor itin.
Mm-hmm.
But.
I remember after that happened,I decided, okay, I'm still gonna
study.
(28:02):
I'm gonna try it again.
And I think that was the secondtime I took it when I was with
you.
I think so, yeah.
And I was like, I was like,okay, third time the charm, you
know, I, I gotta get third time.
And I remember I was studyingand things were starting to
click for me and I was doingreally well in my practice
exams.
And then it hit me and I waslike, oh, I could really go.
(28:23):
Like I could pass and go andthen I was like, oh, I could
really go.
Oh.
And all of my excitement likeshifted and I was like, do I
really want to do this?
Mm.
And I sat with myself and I waslike, why am I pursuing this?
And I was like, oh, I'm pursuingit.
Because having a law degree mademe feel valuable.
(28:46):
Mm-hmm.
It made me feel like I step intothe room, I say I'm a lawyer, I
take up all the air.
Yeah, and like I realized thatwas very prideful, but in
reality I was stressed out likestudying and I'm like, if I'm
already this stressed out rightnow before I've even entered the
program, imagine how I'll be forthree more years.
And on top of that, I don't evencare about law.
Like at my core I like it, it'scool, but it's not a passion of
(29:10):
mine.
And also I wanted to go at thetime into entertainment law,
which apparently is really nicheand really hard to get into.
And it's funny now full circlewith my master's degree.
Like, I could do like businessaffairs for agency, which would
be the same thing I would'vebeen doing for that, like for a
law firm, but for agency.
Like I'm handling all of thecreative legal stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Which is crazy.
(29:30):
Okay.
I wouldn't have known that had Inot gone back to my master's,
but that was what made me pivot.
I was like, I'm not happy.
And I always told myself, I'mgonna go back to school.
I'm gonna go back to dosomething I'm passionate about
and enjoy.
And I'm like, I'm not passionateabout this.
I'm doing it for like.
The views I'm doing it to beable to say I have, I'm a lawyer
for my parents to be able to belike, my daughter's a lawyer
(29:51):
because it was, it was kind ofgassing me up.
Not gonna lie.
I'm studying, I'm studying to bea lawyer, you know, people are
like, oh my God, really?
I'm like, yeah, yeah, I am.
I'm nice to meet you.
What do you do?
Like, like, hi, I'm Lindsay.
I'm training to be a lawyer.
Yeah.
That's all you need to know.
That's all you need to know.
Yeah.
And I just.
(30:12):
Sat with myself and I'm like,no, like I'm not happy, and you
don't have to keep doing thisand you can pivot at any time.
That's great.
That's, that's definitely ahallmark of maturity and like
you knowing yourself enough tobe able to come to that
realization before you're likethousands of dollars of debt
down the drain.
Exactly.
High school hating and All thetime.
All the time.
(30:32):
And then you get so far into it,you're like, I can't turn back
now.
I guess I'm just gonna have todo this.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So I feel like there's so manypeople that get into similar
fields, whether it's being likea doctor or a lawyer.
Mm-hmm.
Something like that.
Like just for the prestige.
And because people do have thosereactions.
They're like, oh, you're adoctor.
Oh my gosh, you're a lawyer.
Like all those things.
And we're such like mimeticbeings and we're so influenced
(30:53):
by what people want around usthat we kind of convince
ourselves that we want the samethings because we like how it
looks on them or whatever it is.
So, gosh, I feel like thathappens to so many people and
they may not even realize it.
So good on you for.
Getting out of there andrealizing that that's not what
you want.
Did you take it a third time oryou said, I'm not even gonna
take it another time?
(31:14):
No, I didn't take it a thirdtime.
Once I had good for ation, I waslike, I'm doing something else.
And it made me realize I wantthe lifestyle that I see lawyers
have, but can make money inother ways.
It doesn't have to be this.
Mm-hmm.
And also when I look at theirlifestyle, but how much they're
working, it's like.
They're working probably like9,000 hours a week if they go to
(31:34):
like big law.
Oh yeah.
And I have all this money, but Ican't use it.
I can't do anything with mylife.
So I was like, I would ratherfigure out a different way to
make the same impact and samemoney where I still have my
life.
You know?
That was another thing for me.
I was like, I want to be able tobe around whenever I have like a
family.
And not like mom's workingagain, like all day, all night.
(31:55):
I was gonna go in big law if Iwent and that's how their life
is, for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Zero work life balance.
Yeah.
So yeah, that, that's great.
Can you talk about the realityof letting go of a dream that no
longer serves you, even whenyour identity might have been
tied to it?
The one thing I will say is Ithink you should master the
pivot and that your identityshouldn't be a tied to like one
(32:19):
thing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, especially not a likeworldly thing.
And you know, I'm a believer andI feel if your identity's gonna
be in anything, it should be inGod, but yeah.
you know, each their own.
But I think having an identitywithin a one thing, like even
that's something I strugglewith.
Like my identity was involleyball, my identity was in
school.
But then once those things areno longer there, you feel so
(32:41):
lost.
Yeah.
So that's something that I woulddefinitely say to people.
Yeah.
Like, that reminds me of a bookwe covered pretty early on in
the podcast, the Power of Now,and essentially it's about like
how we're.
Associating too closely with ourthoughts and our, like our
outwardly identities.
So like, we'll say, I'm thisperson's mom.
(33:02):
I'm this person's best friend.
I'm a doctor, I'm this, this,that, and it's like, is that
really you though, or is thatjust what you do?
Mm-hmm.
Like, can we just be, do we haveto be this person's X, Y, and Z?
Do we have to have this job orthese material things when
they're like, aren't we justgood enough?
Like as we are as very uniqueindividuals, so, mm-hmm.
(33:23):
That's always stuck with mesince then.
And I, I feel like postathletics and realizing how tied
my identity was to that, andthen all this, like the
suffering I went through to likeget out of that mindset.
Mm-hmm.
It's definitely good to watchwhat you tie yourself to in the
future.
Mm-hmm.
And I love what you said aboutthe pivot, because that's like
Ronnie's favorite word.
Yes.
Mastering the pivot.
I love it.
(33:44):
I love that it didn't fail.
You just pivoted.
That's what I tell you.
Yes.
I just pivoted, you know.
W Well, power of the Pivot,baby.
I'm sorry, I missed, can youremind our audience what your
Master's is in?
Yeah.
My master's is in advertising,well, technically it's
communications and informationwith a advertising emphasis.
(34:05):
Ooh, we let see, Like webdesign, social media, none of
that or Yeah, it, that'sencompassing in it.
Okay.
It can, it can be web campaigns.
Like ad campaigns.
Okay.
Social media.
I'm very open.
I'm currently looking for a jobif anyone's hiring.
Okay.
Okay.
That's, we'll put that plug infor you.
(34:26):
well, that is so awesome.
I'll tell you as, an oldergeneration.
Your life is so fluid thatyou're gonna have these, crises
of belief is what I, I kind ofcall'em, you know, throughout
your life.
Both of you guys have, have donea lot of inner work.
What amazes me so much is the,The emotional maturity that you
(34:51):
guys have, and some of thefriends that I know that are
even older than me, familymembers, whatever, have never
gotten to that point.
And it's so sad.
Uh, male, Robin says that mostpeople have the emotional
capacity of an 8-year-old.
That's pretty true and it's ahundred percent true, but yes.
(35:14):
I know you're gonna be a Bostonwhatever you go after, it's
heck, it's, you will crush it.
Thank you.
Well, on your master's degreenote A, what made you pursue the
path of advertising and how doesit align with the life that
you're building for your future?
Yeah, so I started in businesswhen I graduated from undergrad,
(35:34):
and I had a marketing emphasis,so I had a few marketing ad PR
type of classes, and I had oneclass that was like an ad
campaign class, and all we didwas talk about ads.
And at the time I didn't knowyou could work in that field.
I thought I could go work formarketing for like, I don't
know, like bush baked beans.
(35:54):
But yeah, that was so random.
That is in Tennessee.
That's in Tennessee.
That's why you know that girl Isaw on the wedding.
See Dolly.
That's only your way to seeDolly.
Oh my.
At Dollywood, people putmarketing PR and ad in the same
bucket, and that's how I viewedit at first.
So I thought if I went to viewthese marketing jobs, I would be
(36:17):
doing what I'm looking for now.
And it's not true a lot ofmarketing jobs or sales.
So I'm like, oh, I'm looking forlike an agency that's building
out campaigns specifically for.
TV or whether it's social media,whatever compartment it is.
Mm-hmm.
So that's kind of what made melook more into it.
I remember I was actuallywatching a blog and this girl
(36:40):
was talking about getting hermaster's in public relations and
ad and I was like, you can dothat because on a business note,
they always tell you, go getyour MBA.
It's like, if you're gonna goback to school for master's,
it's MBA or nothing.
So I don't know that there is, Icould go get it in journalism or
I could go get it.
And ad or whatever.
I didn't know that.
(37:00):
So I remember I looked it up andI was like, I wonder if UTK has
one?
'cause I know Carson Neumandoesn't.
So I was like, let me look itup.
No.
And I saw it and I was like, ohmy God.
And I remember I applied and Igot in like the first round and
that's when I knew like, this iswhere I need to be.
Because like back to the lawschool thing, I feel like what's
meant for you shouldn't be thathard.
(37:21):
Like hard.
The door closing so hard on meand how it was making me feel.
And this was the first time whenI applied.
I felt like I was being myselfauthentically.
My paper was actually about DEIwithin the ad space.
And I remember I felt sovulnerable submitting it because
I'm like, they rejected, they'rerejecting me.
Like that's how I felt by howmuch I put into it.
(37:41):
And when I got accepted I waslike, oh my God.
Like this is where I'm supposedto be.
'cause I didn't apply to anyother school.
I said, you know, I'm gonnaapply to UTK.
If I don't get in, I'll figuresomething else out.
And wow.
I, yeah.
Yeah, that was probably such agood moment for you, especially
after dealing with all the lawschool stuff.
Yeah, the, the COVID and the lawschool stuff.
(38:02):
And then, yeah, it was justquite the journey to get to
where I am today, but I wouldn'tbe who I am without it, like
with all the things that havehappened, so.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Well, I am so proud of you.
You're killing it.
Yes.
Alright, so last segment beforewe get to our closing.
So I know you've talked a lotabout how much pride you take in
being an educated black womantoday.
(38:22):
I think your post on like aroundaround when you graduated, I
think it said only like 9% ofblack women have their masters.
Is that right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So can you just talk a littlebit more about what that means
to you and how has that identityshaped how you show up in the
world?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it means a lot to me.
Um, like I said, I have apassion for DEI and a really big
passion for representationbecause even within my space
(38:45):
right now, there aren't a lot ofpeople that look like me.
And in the ad world, there's nota lot of people who look like
me, but they're marketing topeople who look like me.
And even this past summer, I hadan internship and we were
talking through some culturalstuff and someone was, we're
talking about wigs and mind youmm-hmm.
I'm the only one in this roomthat had, that knew about wigs,
knew how they worked, all thisstuff.
(39:06):
And I remember these girls weretalking about all these ideas of
what they wanted to do with it.
And I'm like, this isn'tculturally relevant.
Like the person who wears a wigwould never do these things.
Yeah.
Or would or would never like buyinto this.
Yeah.
And that's when it hit me.
I was like, oh, this is how Ican create impact in my own way
by sharing my own experience.
Yes.
That's so cool.
I feel like I was chasing d therole and then I got advice from
(39:29):
someone and they were like, youcan have DEI wherever you are.
Like you are.
Yes.
DI like, you don't need thetitle.
Right.
So like you share yourexperience and share.
Mm-hmm.
And like that will be enough.
And I've kind of led with that.
And that's why it's so impactfulfor me to have my masters
because there aren't a lot oflike black women who have their
masters mm-hmm.
That look like me.
Especially not in the ad PRspace, but yet mm-hmm we're
(39:50):
severely saturating the marketthat we're like targeting, so.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
I have one Request I, I wantwhite women to be as free in
wearing wigs.
I want to be a platinum blonde,long hair, something.
Oh my God.
I want to bring wigs to thewhite people.
(40:11):
Seriously, I think it's sofreaking awesome that you know,
you can have long hair one day.
You can have it short.
The other, you can have itnatural.
We are just.
We don't have that, right?
Mm-hmm.
Look, I'll take you to the wigstore and I would love to
Platinum.
Yes.
(40:31):
So especially being a blackwoman, I feel like hair is an
expression.
So.
I like, I've always had my hairin any type of style.
I just think it's like, that'slike me, like I just love hair
as much as I love fashion.
And so, oh my gosh, well beready because, you're probably
gonna be very good in that worldof helping connect the culture
(40:53):
with the ad.
Mm-hmm.
And then as it grows, you'reeducating people.
For the next thing you know.
Yeah.
This, this special, like there'sa lot of money in that kind of
stuff, like the special tape andthe, the little caps that you
wear under'em.
And I, I'm like, how does that,how do, how can't even see the
(41:15):
wig.
I, yeah.
There is definitely like a lotof money in it and I didn't
realize that when I went intoit.
Ooh.
Um.
And the one thing I love aboutthe ad pr space is it's so
freeing.
I feel like business school isvery much like you show up, you
wear a, a, a gray suit, whitebutton down and that's it.
Mm-hmm.
This is like, the ad space islike, show your personality.
(41:36):
And that was the adjustment forme.
I was like, what?
Because usually in businessschool it's like they ask you
this, you say this, you do that,they do this.
Yeah.
Versus that is, is like, no, wewant you to be like yourself.
'cause they think being weird islike, that's how you make good
content.
Yeah.
Being yourself authentically.
And that's one thing I love.
Being in this space.
Oh, yeah.
It's definitely not the same ina lot of other careers.
(41:57):
Like being a lawyer.
Yeah.
Or, yeah, like anything else.
So yeah, that, that part'sreally fun.
Circling back to your originalanswer, I think it's great that
you.
Or like filling that holebecause you realize there's not
of other black women in thisindustry and people are giving
their opinions and they'rerunning campaigns when like they
may not know or they might, theymight not understand and you're
just like saying like, okay,this is how I make an impact
(42:18):
right here and right now.
Mm-hmm.
So I love that.
That's really awesome.
We're gonna get to our second tolast question.
What would you wanna say toyounger black girls navigating
their twenties just maybetwenties in general, but also
maybe sports pressure tosucceed, all of that stuff.
If you could speak to them rightnow, what would you wanna say?
I would say everything you wantis on the other side of fear.
(42:39):
my biggest thing the past fewyears is I'm gonna do it scared.
Regardless.
And that has landed me so manyopportunities.
Um, I remember my first time I,well, it was small, it was like,
do I wanna go with my friends?
Because I was having, like, Iwas feeling anxious and I was
like, do you wanna go out?
Do I not?
And I was like, I'm gonna go.
Cool.
Then I met like someone I'mreally close with now.
(43:01):
And then I had another momentwhere we had a New York trip for
school where it was like a, itwas like a networking trip.
And I remember the day be thetwo days before I was talking to
my parents, like, I don't thinkI should go.
I just feel so anxious.
Like, I don't know anyone.
I don't know my roommate.
I don't know who I'm flyingwith.
And literally from thatinternship, I met so many
amazing people.
(43:21):
I met this lady who connected mewith someone else that I ended
up getting a scholarship.
I ended up connecting withsomeone who landed me an
internship that summer.
And I just feel like every timeI've been scared and done it
anyways in a safe, in a safeway, I've always reap the
benefit of it.
So that's something I would sayis like not being afraid to like
be seen trying.
Mm-hmm.
(43:42):
And that even though you'rescared, it's probably'cause
you're meant to be there.
And I, it's called like thedevil trying to keep you out.
Yeah.
That's what you're meant tohave.
And it's making you feelanxious.
He's making you feel like youcan't, you're not enough in
reality.
Like you're mm-hmm.
You've been enough.
Yep.
So that's what I woulddefinitely say to someone.
Yeah.
That's very profound, wiseadvice.
I love that.
(44:02):
It's just getting outta yourcomfort zone.
'cause you know, I think a lotof times, and as someone that's
like chronically in my head, I.
Like will talk myself out ofcertain things or I'll talk
myself into anxiety so I canjust not do things.
Mm-hmm.
And then you like flash forwardand you're like, how much stuff
did I miss out on?
Like what opportunities did Imiss?
Like what experiences did I misspeople?
(44:24):
Did I miss meeting mm-hmm.
Okay, so for our closing, Idon't know if you watched any of
our episodes, but we do what wecall what she said.
So Lindsay, what is a piece ofadvice or a mindset that's
helped carry you through thischapter of becoming?
Oh, okay.
I've been thinking about thisone.
I saw it and I was like, I need,I need something good.
That's really helped me andsomething that's really helped
(44:46):
pushed me through is I'll alwaystell myself, if not this, then
it's something better.
And anytime I've gotten arejection letter or things
haven't worked out, I'm like, ifnot this, it's something better.
I'm supposed to be somewherebetter.
That's the only reason thisdidn't work out, and that's
helped me deal with thedisappointment of the no.
Mm-hmm.
'cause it can get hard,especially like for instance,
(45:08):
right now I get more rejectionletters.
I do acceptance'cause I'mmm-hmm.
Applying to a lot of jobs when Iwas applying to internships.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I applied to like 10,15 and I only heard back from
like one or two that I gotoffered from.
But that's all you need.
Like you only need one.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
You need one.
Yes.
Yeah.
Just reframing failure.
Especially like when a lot ofstuff we talked about today,
(45:30):
like you tie your identity to itor you become so fixated on like
the life you'll have once youacquire the certain thing.
Yeah.
And for someone who likeattaches themselves to
achievement, I feel like youhave to learn how to redefine
failure.
'cause you feel like you failed.
Mm-hmm.
And that's where I, I wasstarting to feel like I'm a
failure.
I'm like, no, like you just,they just don't want you for
whatever reason.
It could be because they justknew someone.
(45:50):
It doesn't have to be youspecific, right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I was looking for a jobfor months and months and
months.
That's a grind and golly.
Yeah.
Well the job market right nowsucks, so I was applying to
like.
At least 10 jobs a day andusually not hearing back.
But I would almost always getrejected and oh my gosh, that
was so hard.
Like day after day, it was justlike, no, no, no, no, no.
(46:12):
But I, I love that mantra oflike, if it's not this, then
it's something better.
Mm-hmm.
Because I try and trust in like,God has a plan and he'll put me
where I'm supposed to be whenI'm needed there.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, it's, it's hard, but Ilike that just real short and
simple mantra.
That's good.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Oh my gosh.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
Thank you so much.
(46:33):
You're welcome.
I just knew you were gonna havesome absolute bombs.
Bombs to drop.
Oh my gosh.
It was so good.
It was so good.
And, and you guys, be watchingout'cause this girl's getting
ready to.
Power on I I know it.
I am speaking that intoexistence.
You are in the perfect spot,perfect head space, perfect
emotional space.
(46:53):
You know, sounds like you don'thave a lot of baggage of people
that you're having to take careof and such, so sky's the limit.
Hear that years ago.
Good for you girl, you to be incollege.
It was a different story.
Right?
Right.
We.
Well, I'm so happy that we arenot the same people we were in
(47:14):
college.
And Amen.
Like I said, I'm so proud ofyou, not just for all the like
education and all those thingsyou're accomplishing, but like
just, I think in this interviewyou dropped so many insightful
downloads that reflect how muchself love and how much inner
work you've done.
Yeah.
I'm excited for people to listento this interview for sure.
Yes, yes.
Awesome.
(47:34):
Okay, well, the way we end ourepisode.
I gotta get my microphone outtathe way'cause I'll whack it.
We'll do like 3, 2, 1, and we'llgo like, and that's, that's the
t and we do a high five.
So do I cover my here topartake?
Do I cover my thing?
I mean, you can just high fiveit, I mean, yeah.
Okay.
That's, that's cute.
Don't, don't think about it toomuch.
Alright.
3, 2, 1.
(47:56):
And, and that's, that's the, thetea.
Well welcome everybody to Generational Tea Podcast.
I'm Cana.
And I'm Ronnie.
And we have a very special guestand one of my close college
friends.
Lindsay, welcome.
Lindsay.
So awkward.
Not really.
It's okay.
We have a lot of awkwardmoments, so if we do, just know
(00:34):
that I'll just edit those littlejokers right now.
Yes.
Don't even worry about it.
Yes, thank you.
And if you like stutter, saylike a million filler words.
I got you.
Edit.
Yes, I, I'll make you look good.
I'll do my job, I swear.
Alright, well we're gonna getdown to the questions'cause I
know it's getting late yourguys' time.
Well, late-ish.
So Lindsay and I played collegevolleyball together and I
(00:57):
remember always admiring you andlooking up to you and.
Just at this point in my life,I'm happy to have you on the
podcast'cause I feel like you'rea really great example and role
model for me as a woman.
So let's, let's stick into thesequestions.
For our audience and those thatdon't really know you, how would
you describe yourself today andhow has that version changed
since college?
(01:17):
Yeah.
Today I would definitelydescribe myself as ambitious,
creative, and compassionate.
I just graduated with mymaster's in advertising at York
City, Tennessee.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
And this is the first time whereI've like, looked up.
I feel like I've been like thisfor the past, like six years of
doing school.
(01:37):
That's the first time I'm beinglike, okay, like, what does
Lindsay want?
And I call like, my season ofbecoming nice, becoming what
we're not sure, but we're onthis journey and I'm just
excited to see like where itgoes.
Yeah.
That's really cool.
That's awesome.
I like that idea of becoming,and I feel like that's very
true.
You've just been like grindingaway, I mean, ever since I met
you, really.
And now I'm excited that you'rereally gonna like, get out of
(02:00):
school and really like, pursuelife.
That's really exciting.
Yeah.
when we played volleyballtogether, and kind of like I
just said, I remember beingstruck by how confident and
grounded you were at such ayoung age.
As someone that was like so faron the opposite end of the
spectrum, I felt like I was.
Really insecure and soft spoken,and I never spoke my mind.
And then you came in to my lifeand I was like, oh my gosh, like
(02:21):
who is this?
Like who is this?
And how can I get to be likeher?
Yes.
So that confidence, even as likeearly in college, was that
something you were raised withor did you really cultivate that
yourself before coming tocollege?
It's funny that you say thatbecause in college I feel like I
was in my own little worldtrying to like, navigate, and
I'm the type of person I feellike externally I come off.
(02:44):
Like I have it all together, butinternally I'm like, you know.
And it was definitely built overtime.
I've, mm-hmm.
I've done a lot of, self-helpbooks specifically, I just love
a good self-help book, likeGentle Reminders by Brianna
West.
Okay.
That got me through.
What?
What'd you say?
Gentle reminders.
Gentle reminder.
(03:05):
Cana, can you put that in theshow notes?
Yes.
Yeah.
Have you read it too?
No, I have it.
Okay.
Is that the girl that writesthat book?
The Mountain is you?
I think so.
I think I've heard her namebefore, but I haven't read any
of her books.
Yeah, she has another one that'slike when you're ready to heal.
Read when you're ready to heal.
Something like that.
It's a great book too, but,okay.
At that time I was doing a lotof books.
(03:25):
I was watching a lot ofpodcasts, which they weren't,
podcasts weren't really a thingwhen we were in college.
It was more so just like YouTubevideos.
Yeah.
That people were just likethrowing together.
I was doing a lot of that andthen just kind of on this self
love journey.
I feel like I've been on allthroughout college, and then it
just like grew.
I've even done the whole likepost-it note, you put it on Your
mirror and like do affirmationsjust'cause I feel like when you
(03:49):
believe it yourself and you seeit all the time, it just becomes
innate and a part of you.
yeah.
Okay.
That's cool.
What do you feel like with allthese, like self-help books and
like self-care hacks andaffirmation, all that, what do
you feel like has been like the,like maybe like top two or top
three most effective thingsyou've read about or found or
tried?
And I'm putting you on the spot'cause I wasn't on the question
(04:10):
list, but yeah, you can use asub question.
It's okay.
One thing I've really had tolearn is how to regulate my
emotions.
Like that's something I wasn'treally taught, especially within
like the black community we'retaught really just like be
strong.
College is supposed to be hard.
Keep your head down, likeyou'll, you'll figure it out and
like, no, like you're, if you'restruggling, you should go seek
help.
Seek help can mean differentthings.
Like it could maybe mean you goto a counselor if you're
(04:32):
comfortable, go to a therapist.
For me, I didn't feel like itwas that bad.
And I hate to say it like that,but I didn't feel like it was
bad enough for, I needed toseek.
But honestly, maybe I justdidn't feel confident too.
Like if that was my environmentand everybody around me was
doing that, maybe I would have,but I just chose to, I hate to
say self-medicate because thatsounds awful, but I chose to
find my own avenue and from thatit made me realize like one, I
(04:54):
need to learn how to regulate myemotions, and be able to talk
through them.
So I've done a lot of likebreath work.
Which I thought was silly.
Okay.
I'm not gonna lie, I thought itwas so silly.
I've done a lot of affirmations,especially when I'm feeling
anxious.
I'll just be like, I'm capableor I deserve this.
Or like, I'm lovable.
Just like small stuff like thatto remind myself like I can do
(05:16):
hard things.
Mm-hmm.
And that they're not as dauntingas I make them.
They feel big in the moment, butin reality, like they're not
that big.
Yeah.
So that's something that'shelped me get through those like
moments where I'm playinganxious or nothing.
I do, when I'm presenting, I'lllike hold my hand like this.
Well, it'll be like this to youand I'd be standing normal, but
I'll like tap my hand like that.
(05:36):
Mm-hmm.
Um, so I don't shake.
Oh wow.
We will rock.
Or they'll tap and like, I'lljust, my hands look like this so
you don't see me.
Like really like touch it, butit helps calm myself down.
That's a hack for my job on thefloor.
No.
'cause whenever I'm publicspeaking, I'm always like
shaking or I'm very fidgety andI wanna stop doing that.
So yeah, you should try it.
(05:57):
Okay.
Another tip my dad always toldme was, he was like, he would
always go like this and like,that's the pace you need to
talk.
Oh, okay.
And that so, because when I getnervous I start talking like,
like so fast.
Yeah, same.
And people like slow down.
So that's something else thatI'd like implemented too.
Okay.
(06:17):
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's, that's reallycool.
Definitely good hacks.
And I also have read a lot oflike self-help stuff and we've
talked about a lot of self-helptopics on this podcast.
And like so much of it goes backto emotional regulation.
Mm-hmm.
And it's crazy that like, Idon't feel like I was taught it
and I think Ronnie, you agreetoo.
Oh my gosh.
And it's just like the key tolife, I feel like, especially
(06:39):
when you're an adult and thingsare hard and life is coming at
you really fast.
Yeah.
Like you have to be able toregulate your emotions, but it's
so hard.
But it's so hard.
It is.
You, my friend, you have what Ihave.
You have a superpower forcalling people out without
blowing up or shrinking down.
Tell us how you learn toconfront others so directly, but
(07:00):
yet gracefully and honoringthem, Tell us about how you deal
with that.
What, what's behind?
Yeah.
My family is super honest andthat's where I learned it from
and I didn't realize I was beingblunt or like calling people
out.
'cause that's just, that's afact.
Like that's what happened.
So let's talk about it.
Yeah.
And as I've gotten older, I'mlike, oh, other people are not
(07:23):
like that.
Yeah, totally.
As I'm like, oh.
Maybe it, it was true, but maybeI should not have said it like
that.
And as I've gotten older, I'verealized there's a difference
between like honesty andtransparency.
Like you can be honest.
Yes.
Like to me, honesty is like Ijust tell you what it is.
Matter of fact, transparency haslike a level of vulnerability
(07:46):
within it where it's like, I'mbeing honest, but you didn't
have to ask me.
Like, I'm telling you.
And here's the other layers too.
Like, you did this, it made mefeel X, Y, and z.
Versus just being like, you didthis and just leaving it there.
Right.
So as I've gotten older, I'mlike, okay, you can be honest,
but you also need to becompassionate within the honesty
and mm-hmm.
There's a time and place for it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Because I used to just behonest.
(08:07):
I didn't care.
Like your feelings were hurt,not my concern.
Move on.
Yeah.
And it wasn't an active thought,but now that I've gotten older
and I'm more aware with my ownemotions and other people's
feelings, I'm like, okay, let'stake a step back.
You can be honest with alsoconsidering their feelings with
what you're about to say.
One thing I've started doingwith my friends, um, I started
(08:29):
doing with my friends, but I'll,I'll say like, do you want my
honest opinion right now?
Or do you want support?
Because some people just aren'tin a position where they want
the honesty so bluntly, theyjust want you to listen and not
help me like through a lot of myfriendships.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a great point.
And I think the distinctionbetween transparency and.
Outright confrontation is, isvery important.
(08:51):
And I like that you highlightedthat because there is a way to
do it in a right way.
Just a side note on thatquestion, I always was so very
impressed that you were able todo it.
And then like I know like whenyou were saying earlier, like on
the outside you're like calm,cool and collected, but on the
inside you're like freaking out.
Mm-hmm.
So that's good to know becausein my head, it's either or, like
I have to be calm in the insideto be calm on the outside, but
(09:12):
that's not necessarily the case.
And I feel like you've done avery great job of being able to
confront people in a classy way,but also a way that is like,
yeah, it's a fact and it needsto be said out loud and like not
everyone has the courage to doit, but you do.
And don't ever back down fromthat because throughout your
life.
You will have revelations it'snot like you're fortune telling
(09:35):
or anything, but the way you seethe world is so different.
It's almost, some people useempathic that you know how
somebody feels when they walkinto the room.
Yeah.
Or you know that, person that,it comes to your mind and you're
like, I need to call her.
Don't forget it because thereare so many times that I'm like,
(09:55):
Cana, are you okay?
Because I'm feeling, and wehaven't talked nothing.
Nothing.
And I'll, because I'll say, youknow, I'm just feeling like
maybe you might be a littlestressed today or whatever.
So you're good with that.
Good for you.
You're so good that that.
That is a superpower.
Yeah.
Well, I feel like it's asuperpower, especially as a
(10:15):
woman, and this bridges into ournext question.
I think a lot of women areraised to be the peacemakers and
the people pleasers.
Like I think that's just a verywoman experience that we're kind
of raised that way.
And whether that comes from likegender things and whatever,
doesn't matter.
But I wanna give you a platformbecause I feel like you do the
opposite, so well, what wouldyou say to women that are trying
to unlearn things like that andhelp find their voice?
(10:38):
I would say, when you're keepingthe peace, who are you keeping
the peace?
Like whom are you keeping thepeace from?
Um, I feel like when you keepthe peace for other people,
you're doing it for them andthen you're in turmoil about it,
but you live with you every day.
So like, why would you live withyourself every day?
Like, feeling less than, orfeeling unheard or feeling
(11:00):
unappreciated in whateverenvironment that you're in.
Mm-hmm.
So like that's what motivates meto speak up.
Because I would rather saysomething and it not work out,
in my opinion, be heard than tohave to like hold it in.
It's like when you harbor it in,you're gonna explode.
And then people look at what youexploded at and be like, you're
overreacting.
But really it's all these layersthat they mm-hmm.
Yeah.
(11:21):
Yes.
And I feel as women, we, we justpack it on.
We just keep going, we keepgoing.
Mm-hmm.
And then something small happenslike.
Someone forgot to take the trashout or your laundry, shrunk your
favorite shirt and you justspazz out.
Yeah.
You're like, we can get you yourshirt.
We can go take the trash out.
And you're like, it's not that.
It's all these other things.
So I think when you get it atthe small, like the micro level,
(11:43):
it doesn't have to blow up tothe big level.
And then as you start callingout the smaller things, it just
gets more comfortable for you.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
To be able to do that.
Mm-hmm.
For sure.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it definitely does.
I feel like that's somethingI've had to learn in in recent
years and.
For me, I realized how much ofit was a matter of like
self-respect for myself and alsolike my self-esteem.
So when I was keeping quiet incertain moments or I didn't have
(12:04):
the courage to like just believein my voice and believe the
things that I said that I like,were think was thinking had
value to like speak out loud andover time, like me being quiet
or people pleasing or trying tokeep peace for whatever reason
now, like a few years down theroad, I'm like, oh my gosh.
Well, I'm wondering why I hatemyself and it's because I don't
believe in myself.
Like I don't have the courage tolike.
(12:24):
Believe in my own voice and Iwas like, oh my gosh, how did I
get here?
I also think People will treatyou the way you tolerate them,
if that makes sense.
I'm trying to say like basicallythe things you accept is how
people are gonna treat you.
So if you constantly don't shareyour voice, they're gonna
constantly keep overstepping.
'cause one, they might not knowit's an issue or two, they might
(12:44):
not care.
They can go.
Yeah, right way, but, but Iwould rather, you know, it's a
boundary and if you cross it,then I will no longer be there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you have to establish thosethings.
So early in a relationship,we've got a family situation
going down on our side of.
(13:05):
Gem side and it's gonna have tobe handled with so much care.
Yeah, that's very delicate.
Um, it's a very delicate thing,but I'm trying to encourage my
husband, like set the boundariesearly and stick to'em and
communicate'em.
I feel like we hear everythingabout setting boundaries and
(13:27):
even keeping that, but mm-hmm.
I feel like we need to know moreabout how to relay.
Mm-hmm.
That boundary to that person,you know, it's not fair to put
up a fence around something andthen not tell'em why or not why.
Right.
But, but just, you know, thisinvisible fence.
If they know, you know, you canonly call me between six and
(13:48):
seven or something like that,and you stick to that and you
don't answer the phone at fiveafter seven, unless obviously
it's like a major emergency.
That's obviously different, butjust kind of.
Establishing that, and to methat's one of the best care
things that we can do forourselves mm-hmm.
Is like, get something like thatin place.
(14:10):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So that when you're dealing withtough times, you, you have an
out, you have things that you'vesaid if this, this, and this
happens, we're not doing that.
But yeah.
Anyhow, so, man, if we had anickel for every time we said
the word boundaries on thispodcast.
It is so, so true.
You probably have like a dollar50 or something.
Let them let them That one too.
(14:34):
Yes.
Did you read that one?
Yes, I have you.
But I've seen her podcast.
Oh yes, it's good.
Yeah, that was probably myfavorite self-help book that
I've read to date.
It was just like so easy and Ifeel like I like immediately
notice the impact.
It's, but yeah.
Yeah.
You'll have to lemme know whatyou think after you read it.
It is not your typical boringself-help book.
(14:55):
You know, like, you know whatI'm talking about.
Like, you get in and you're realenticed in the first chapter and
then all of a sudden it justlike gets technical or there's
all these steps.
Hers is just very good the wayshe writes.
And yeah, you can read onechapter and if somebody stole
the book from you, it wouldchange your life.
Just that one chapter ofwhatever it is.
(15:16):
But yeah, that's good.
Okay.
Yeah, that's really cool.
Now let's talk about if thesuperpower is not well received.
Have you ever had a moment wherespeaking up didn't go how you
hoped?
Does your superpower backfire?
That's what I wanted to know.
Yeah, it does.
(15:36):
I've never, I'm a hundredpercent I.
No, like I've had to learn,mainly my superpower when it
comes to other people's emotionsand feelings, it's backfired.
Mm-hmm.
For instance, there have beentimes where I have called
someone out or said how, whattheir behavior is doing, how it
makes me feel uncomfortable, andthey haven't been in a receiving
(15:57):
posture.
And it's hard when you tellsomebody how they're affecting
you and then they don't make theeffort to fix it.
Because on their end, maybe theydon't have the emotional
capacity to do that.
And I've definitely hadfriendships like that where I'm
saying, this is what I need.
Or even previous relationships,I'm like, this is what I need.
And they're not able to like doit.
(16:18):
'cause like I need this, theycan only gimme this much.
And like, that's not their faultnecessarily, but it's like I'm
still being impacted.
Yeah.
So that's definitely times wheremy, I'm like, okay, I do have
the superpower, but it's notalways gonna win.
Right.
Because.
You know, I, you can't controlother people.
You can't control how they'regonna respond or react.
Mm-hmm.
That's another thing.
When you are confrontational,you kind of are speaking up for
(16:42):
yourself because you don't knowhow they're gonna respond.
Right.
But you're not doing it forthem.
You're doing it for you.
Yes.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Emphasis on that part.
Yes.
Alright, well, are you ready totalk about our mutual identity
crisis?
I'm gonna have coffee or, Imean, it's in, it's in the past,
but I mean, yeah.
Well anyway, we're gonna, yes,it's the B word volleyball.
(17:06):
We both spent years, days, hoursand hours being athletes and
it's kind of become part of whowe are, even though we're very
different people nowpost-college.
But I wanted to discuss on thepodcast with you about just
really general identity crisisthat comes after college sport.
So what was that transition likefor you?
All?
The good, all the bad.
I wanna hear it.
(17:27):
Yeah, it was tough.
Granted, we both graduated inCOVID, so it was already, the
world was already, yeah.
Extra tough.
Extra tough.
I feel like COVID people eithergot really in shape or they like
gained a bunch of weight, likeit was either or.
Mm-hmm.
And I really lost myself.
Especially once I started gradschool.
It was the first time I hadschool without sports and it
(17:48):
showed.
I had gained like, almost like20 pounds my first year of grad
school just because I like to goeat with my friends.
I wasn't moving as much.
A lot of my classes were online,or I wasn't like nearly as
active.
Mm-hmm.
But to the like, athletic point,I feel like going from the
structure to nothing reallymessed with my mind.
(18:10):
During COVID.
Sorry, I'm kind of But you'regood.
That that really messed with mementally.
'cause I was just so used tohaving this structure.
This is how today's gonna look.
This is how tomorrow's gonnalook.
And going from that to nothing.
And then on top of the world wasclosed.
Mm-hmm.
I was like, oh my God, what amI?
Most people are like, I have allthis free time.
(18:31):
I was like, how am I gonna fillit?
Well on that, now I'm gonnainterrupt you.
I think it's interesting becauseathletes are viewed as very
disciplined people, but likealso we are provided that
structure.
Like there is some degree oflike self-discipline, like when
you're doing workouts outside oflike the normal weights or
whatever.
But like, I felt the same thingwhere I felt like I was so
(18:53):
disciplined and accomplished andthen post-college I was like, I
am a mess.
I'm so lazy.
Like I, I don't know how to dothis myself.
I feel that.
And then I, towards the end ofit, I finally got my power back
and I was like, I.
Don't have to do these liftsanymore because I was still
doing our volleyball lifts andsome of them I hated.
They're pretty, I would neverpower clean ever again.
(19:15):
I'll never hang clean any clean.
You will not catch me doing.
Do you know what the specificmoment I'm thinking of right
now?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I don't remember.
I think it was maybe my freshmanyear, sophomore year, but we
were.
Power cleaning.
And you like almost got crushedby the bar.
Wasn't Yeah, because at timesthey were throw weight on it and
(19:36):
I'm like, this is heavy.
Like, I know my limits, I knowmy limits.
You know, Johnny and them werelike, just throw the weight.
And I'm like, it's heavy, youknow?
Mm-hmm.
I will never do lifts like thatagain, but I realized I've had
to adjust, like there's so manydifferent types of workouts, you
know, like with the rise, likePilates lag.
Yeah.
Like all stuff like that.
I used to feel like if I wasn'tdrenched in sweat, like balls,
(19:58):
the walls and I didn't work out,like going on a walk was not a
workout.
To me, that was just like, why'dyou go?
Were you sweating?
Like that's how I felt.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I had to adjust my mindsetto be like, no, movement is the,
is the key.
We're not trying to, you know,work out like I did in college
where I'm burning like 500calories in a workout.
Like, that's not how I like toworkout anymore.
(20:19):
So I've been shifting my mindsetto that and being like, okay, I
like.
Low impact with weight lifting.
You know, you don't, it doesn'thave to be either or It can be
both.
Like I don't have to just dothis high intensity training.
Mm-hmm.
And I don't feel like,especially kind of with the
cycle sinking, sometimes I'mjust tired.
Mm-hmm.
Or I don't have the time or Idon't feel in the gym.
I wanna do something at home.
(20:39):
So I've been resetting my mindto be like, we're just getting a
movement and mobility so you canbe, he a healthier person.
Mm-hmm.
And it is a total random sidenote, but I also had to
disconnect from being a studentathlete, like the body type of
that.
And like the way you lift tohave that body versus like when
you're not that anymore wasreally messing with me.
Mm-hmm.
Because my body obviouslychanged.
(20:59):
I've gotten older, my bodyshifted.
They say you hit another likegrowth thing at 25 and it
definitely hit me.
Oh no, it definitely, itdefinitely hit me.
Your metabolisms slows down.
But that's been a big shift forme too, that I've been like
navigating and I'm trying to setmyself up for the rest of my
life.
Like something that'ssustainable versus just right.
(21:20):
Falls to the walls all the timebecause it just wasn't stable
for me.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, I think those are a lot ofgood points and stuff that I
relate to.
And we've talked about thisprivately too, but feel like
there's just so many mindsetshifts like you were talking
about with the exercise, likeYeah, when I was an athlete, I
thought walks were stupid.
I was like, why did you go on somany dang walks all the time?
And now that is like my mainform of exercise because I've
(21:41):
like allowed myself to view itas like, I just need to move my
body.
I need to get some sunshine.
I don't need to, like you weresaying, be drenched in sweat.
To feel like I am, whatever.
But yeah, it's just so manymindsets and like around food,
around just like, yeah.
I don't know if you'veexperienced like mindset shifts
or needing to make one aboutaround like your identity or
your purpose.
(22:02):
'cause I know that's something Ireally struggled with, like
always feeling so accomplishedand then you're out in the job
market, which kind of sucks postCOVID.
Like who am I, what do I want todo?
Like I've been thinking aboutvolleyball and just like
surviving for so long that like.
I don't know what I wanna do.
I don't even know who I'manymore.
Yeah, that's how I feel rightnow.
Finishing school is kind oflike, school has become my
(22:23):
identity and now I no longerhave it and I'm trying to
navigate the job space.
It's like been my own challengebecause I told you, I'm finally
looking up and I'm like, okay,what does Lindsay want for like
the rest of my life?
And that's like, I was like, Iwas like, we're still trying to
figure that out, but we'll see.
You're on your way though.
You're making great progress.
Yeah.
(22:44):
Thank you.
Okay.
So really briefly on this note,so I know you kind of mentioned
already your relationship withyour body in terms of like
exercise and all that, but howdid being an athlete shape your
relationship with your body andhow did that change when you
left the sport?
I actually, when I was inathletics, I didn't really care
about my physique, if that makessense.
(23:05):
It was just all about likepower, like I care about my
strength than how I looked.
And then once I graduated and Iwas in.
Like the real world where peopledon't lift like we were lifting
and I'm going to like a PlanetFitness type of gym.
I was like, oh, I'm doing prettygood in comparison.
Yeah, because I feel like whenyou're in an environment where
(23:26):
everybody's lifting that heavyand you're not lifting as heavy,
you feel like, dang, I couldlift heavier.
And then you go into a normalgym where it's just like
everyday people who aren'tathletes, they're like, oh, like
I was doing a lot and it made meappreciate what I was doing in
undergrad.
Mm-hmm.
And one thing I will say I'mforever grateful for being an
athlete is I don't have gymintimidation because I know how
to lift.
(23:48):
Yeah, that's true.
And that's something that I feellike it's taken for granted
because my friends will talkabout how they're intimidated or
they don't know what to do.
And for me, I have so manyworkouts in my head, like if
something's full, I, I know, oh,I can go do this.
It's the same thing.
And that's one thing I'm forevergrateful about being an athlete.
'cause I can go to the gym andfeel confident.
Mm-hmm.
And not worry about if amachine's full, if I can just.
(24:10):
Wait around.
I'm like, no, I'll just dosomething else.
Like I can do this in the samemuscle group.
And I think that's not talkedabout enough.
It's like we had own our ownpersonal trainers for like four
years straight.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, you did.
That's definitely overlooked.
'cause I mean, I feel like youjust said that and I'm like, you
know what?
I've never really appreciatedthat.
But like I have always seen likejust tiktoks are people talking
about like, oh, I'm so scared togo in the gym.
(24:31):
Like it's so intimidating.
Like my friend Kenzie.
Text me all the time.
She's like, I wish you were herebecause I don't wanna go to the
gym by myself.
I have no idea what I'm doing.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, youcan do it.
But then also like I've spent agood many hours of my life in
the gym.
So yeah, that was definitely apro.
As far as like my body image andleaving athletics, it was
definitely rough for me becauseyou go from burning like 2000
(24:52):
calories a day and eating enoughto maintain that.
And then like the food part wasthe hardest piece for me
post-college.
Did you feel like you struggledwith that too?
Yeah, I struggled with the foodbecause I felt like I could eat
anything.
Back to the grad school thing, Igained all that weight because I
was used to being able to eatwhatever and then go burn it off
because we're working out twopeople a day sometimes.
(25:13):
So that was something I reallystruggled with.
And also cooking, like now thatI'm starting to live on my own
and branch out, making healthymeals can be challenging
sometimes.
And that's been, mm-hmm.
Or, or tasty healthy mealsrather, because I've made some
healthy meals.
Very good.
Yeah, like navigating that'sspace too, as an adult has been
challenging.
(25:33):
Yeah.
But I've been finding enjoymentin it.
It's just like experimenting andlike, as I've been more in the
kitchen, I kind of get a tastefor things.
I'm like, oh, this would go goodwith that.
This would go good with that.
Yeah.
And I'm like, okay, how can Imake this healthier?
Like, you can use Greek yogurt.
As a replacement for heavy, likeheavy cream.
I didn't know that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, TikTok University told methat.
Yes.
Oh my gosh, I, that'sinteresting.
(25:55):
I don't know if we like talkedabout this recently, but I also
love cooking now, which is funnybecause Really because that was
very opposite in the past.
But yeah, that's like myself-care every night.
I like, don't even think aboutcooking.
Was it good?
Oh God, I don't know.
I don't think it was good.
It was like chicken and salad.
I remember it was at yourapartment.
(26:15):
I think I remember that and nowlike thinking about the meals I
make today, I am like, you'vedefinitely grown.
Yeah.
Well I feel like when you're anathlete, especially a student
athlete, like sometimes you justdon't learn how to do adult
things.
Like Yeah, because taking careof day, you had, we had meal
plans and then we got fed likealmost every day or every game
(26:37):
day, like twice a day.
So you don't really think aboutit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was pretty rough when likepost-college and me and Weston
started living together.
Honey, we were eating spaghettievery week, sometimes two times
a week, some microwave meals.
He loved it too.
I bet he ate that up.
Looking back, I'm like, oh mygosh.
'cause now I'm cooking likegourmet meals every night, but
(26:58):
yeah.
Yeah.
Look how far we've come since.
Golly.
Alright, well let's move on toour next topic, and that's gonna
be career curve balls.
So.
I remember after college youwere all in on law school and
you had been studying so hardand preparing for this future
you envisioned, and I rememberit was my wedding week and you
were there and you weredevastated by your LSAT results.
(27:20):
What helped you move to thatdisappointment and shift your
focus?
'cause I'm sure that's somethinga lot of people have experienced
with a lot of different things.
So you get so focused on acertain outcome and it ends up
not being for you.
So what helped you move throughthat?
Yeah, I remember that.
I was so devastated.
But it was one of those, it waslike your wedding, so I didn't
wanna be No, it was yourbachelorette.
Your bachelorette.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was like, I can't make thisabout me.
(27:42):
I can't make it about, and Istarted like busted.
I busted on tears, but the shiftI had made to cry.
Another thing, learning how toregulate my emotions, like it's
okay to be sad, it's okay tocross.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And just like have the momentand then like leave it there
versus like trying to harbor itin.
Mm-hmm.
But.
I remember after that happened,I decided, okay, I'm still gonna
study.
(28:02):
I'm gonna try it again.
And I think that was the secondtime I took it when I was with
you.
I think so, yeah.
And I was like, I was like,okay, third time the charm, you
know, I, I gotta get third time.
And I remember I was studyingand things were starting to
click for me and I was doingreally well in my practice
exams.
And then it hit me and I waslike, oh, I could really go.
(28:23):
Like I could pass and go andthen I was like, oh, I could
really go.
Oh.
And all of my excitement likeshifted and I was like, do I
really want to do this?
Mm.
And I sat with myself and I waslike, why am I pursuing this?
And I was like, oh, I'm pursuingit.
Because having a law degree mademe feel valuable.
(28:46):
Mm-hmm.
It made me feel like I step intothe room, I say I'm a lawyer, I
take up all the air.
Yeah, and like I realized thatwas very prideful, but in
reality I was stressed out likestudying and I'm like, if I'm
already this stressed out rightnow before I've even entered the
program, imagine how I'll be forthree more years.
And on top of that, I don't evencare about law.
Like at my core I like it, it'scool, but it's not a passion of
(29:10):
mine.
And also I wanted to go at thetime into entertainment law,
which apparently is really nicheand really hard to get into.
And it's funny now full circlewith my master's degree.
Like, I could do like businessaffairs for agency, which would
be the same thing I would'vebeen doing for that, like for a
law firm, but for agency.
Like I'm handling all of thecreative legal stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Which is crazy.
(29:30):
Okay.
I wouldn't have known that had Inot gone back to my master's,
but that was what made me pivot.
I was like, I'm not happy.
And I always told myself, I'mgonna go back to school.
I'm gonna go back to dosomething I'm passionate about
and enjoy.
And I'm like, I'm not passionateabout this.
I'm doing it for like.
The views I'm doing it to beable to say I have, I'm a lawyer
for my parents to be able to belike, my daughter's a lawyer
(29:51):
because it was, it was kind ofgassing me up.
Not gonna lie.
I'm studying, I'm studying to bea lawyer, you know, people are
like, oh my God, really?
I'm like, yeah, yeah, I am.
I'm nice to meet you.
What do you do?
Like, like, hi, I'm Lindsay.
I'm training to be a lawyer.
Yeah.
That's all you need to know.
That's all you need to know.
Yeah.
And I just.
(30:12):
Sat with myself and I'm like,no, like I'm not happy, and you
don't have to keep doing thisand you can pivot at any time.
That's great.
That's, that's definitely ahallmark of maturity and like
you knowing yourself enough tobe able to come to that
realization before you're likethousands of dollars of debt
down the drain.
Exactly.
High school hating and All thetime.
All the time.
(30:32):
And then you get so far into it,you're like, I can't turn back
now.
I guess I'm just gonna have todo this.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So I feel like there's so manypeople that get into similar
fields, whether it's being likea doctor or a lawyer.
Mm-hmm.
Something like that.
Like just for the prestige.
And because people do have thosereactions.
They're like, oh, you're adoctor.
Oh my gosh, you're a lawyer.
Like all those things.
And we're such like mimeticbeings and we're so influenced
(30:53):
by what people want around usthat we kind of convince
ourselves that we want the samethings because we like how it
looks on them or whatever it is.
So, gosh, I feel like thathappens to so many people and
they may not even realize it.
So good on you for.
Getting out of there andrealizing that that's not what
you want.
Did you take it a third time oryou said, I'm not even gonna
take it another time?
(31:14):
No, I didn't take it a thirdtime.
Once I had good for ation, I waslike, I'm doing something else.
And it made me realize I wantthe lifestyle that I see lawyers
have, but can make money inother ways.
It doesn't have to be this.
Mm-hmm.
And also when I look at theirlifestyle, but how much they're
working, it's like.
They're working probably like9,000 hours a week if they go to
(31:34):
like big law.
Oh yeah.
And I have all this money, but Ican't use it.
I can't do anything with mylife.
So I was like, I would ratherfigure out a different way to
make the same impact and samemoney where I still have my
life.
You know?
That was another thing for me.
I was like, I want to be able tobe around whenever I have like a
family.
And not like mom's workingagain, like all day, all night.
(31:55):
I was gonna go in big law if Iwent and that's how their life
is, for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Zero work life balance.
Yeah.
So yeah, that, that's great.
Can you talk about the realityof letting go of a dream that no
longer serves you, even whenyour identity might have been
tied to it?
The one thing I will say is Ithink you should master the
pivot and that your identityshouldn't be a tied to like one
(32:19):
thing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, especially not a likeworldly thing.
And you know, I'm a believer andI feel if your identity's gonna
be in anything, it should be inGod, but yeah.
you know, each their own.
But I think having an identitywithin a one thing, like even
that's something I strugglewith.
Like my identity was involleyball, my identity was in
school.
But then once those things areno longer there, you feel so
(32:41):
lost.
Yeah.
So that's something that I woulddefinitely say to people.
Yeah.
Like, that reminds me of a bookwe covered pretty early on in
the podcast, the Power of Now,and essentially it's about like
how we're.
Associating too closely with ourthoughts and our, like our
outwardly identities.
So like, we'll say, I'm thisperson's mom.
(33:02):
I'm this person's best friend.
I'm a doctor, I'm this, this,that, and it's like, is that
really you though, or is thatjust what you do?
Mm-hmm.
Like, can we just be, do we haveto be this person's X, Y, and Z?
Do we have to have this job orthese material things when
they're like, aren't we justgood enough?
Like as we are as very uniqueindividuals, so, mm-hmm.
(33:23):
That's always stuck with mesince then.
And I, I feel like postathletics and realizing how tied
my identity was to that, andthen all this, like the
suffering I went through to likeget out of that mindset.
Mm-hmm.
It's definitely good to watchwhat you tie yourself to in the
future.
Mm-hmm.
And I love what you said aboutthe pivot, because that's like
Ronnie's favorite word.
Yes.
Mastering the pivot.
I love it.
(33:44):
I love that it didn't fail.
You just pivoted.
That's what I tell you.
Yes.
I just pivoted, you know.
W Well, power of the Pivot,baby.
I'm sorry, I missed, can youremind our audience what your
Master's is in?
Yeah.
My master's is in advertising,well, technically it's
communications and informationwith a advertising emphasis.
(34:05):
Ooh, we let see, Like webdesign, social media, none of
that or Yeah, it, that'sencompassing in it.
Okay.
It can, it can be web campaigns.
Like ad campaigns.
Okay.
Social media.
I'm very open.
I'm currently looking for a jobif anyone's hiring.
Okay.
Okay.
That's, we'll put that plug infor you.
(34:26):
well, that is so awesome.
I'll tell you as, an oldergeneration.
Your life is so fluid thatyou're gonna have these, crises
of belief is what I, I kind ofcall'em, you know, throughout
your life.
Both of you guys have, have donea lot of inner work.
What amazes me so much is the,The emotional maturity that you
(34:51):
guys have, and some of thefriends that I know that are
even older than me, familymembers, whatever, have never
gotten to that point.
And it's so sad.
Uh, male, Robin says that mostpeople have the emotional
capacity of an 8-year-old.
That's pretty true and it's ahundred percent true, but yes.
(35:14):
I know you're gonna be a Bostonwhatever you go after, it's
heck, it's, you will crush it.
Thank you.
Well, on your master's degreenote A, what made you pursue the
path of advertising and how doesit align with the life that
you're building for your future?
Yeah, so I started in businesswhen I graduated from undergrad,
(35:34):
and I had a marketing emphasis,so I had a few marketing ad PR
type of classes, and I had oneclass that was like an ad
campaign class, and all we didwas talk about ads.
And at the time I didn't knowyou could work in that field.
I thought I could go work formarketing for like, I don't
know, like bush baked beans.
(35:54):
But yeah, that was so random.
That is in Tennessee.
That's in Tennessee.
That's why you know that girl Isaw on the wedding.
See Dolly.
That's only your way to seeDolly.
Oh my.
At Dollywood, people putmarketing PR and ad in the same
bucket, and that's how I viewedit at first.
So I thought if I went to viewthese marketing jobs, I would be
(36:17):
doing what I'm looking for now.
And it's not true a lot ofmarketing jobs or sales.
So I'm like, oh, I'm looking forlike an agency that's building
out campaigns specifically for.
TV or whether it's social media,whatever compartment it is.
Mm-hmm.
So that's kind of what made melook more into it.
I remember I was actuallywatching a blog and this girl
(36:40):
was talking about getting hermaster's in public relations and
ad and I was like, you can dothat because on a business note,
they always tell you, go getyour MBA.
It's like, if you're gonna goback to school for master's,
it's MBA or nothing.
So I don't know that there is, Icould go get it in journalism or
I could go get it.
And ad or whatever.
I didn't know that.
(37:00):
So I remember I looked it up andI was like, I wonder if UTK has
one?
'cause I know Carson Neumandoesn't.
So I was like, let me look itup.
No.
And I saw it and I was like, ohmy God.
And I remember I applied and Igot in like the first round and
that's when I knew like, this iswhere I need to be.
Because like back to the lawschool thing, I feel like what's
meant for you shouldn't be thathard.
(37:21):
Like hard.
The door closing so hard on meand how it was making me feel.
And this was the first time whenI applied.
I felt like I was being myselfauthentically.
My paper was actually about DEIwithin the ad space.
And I remember I felt sovulnerable submitting it because
I'm like, they rejected, they'rerejecting me.
Like that's how I felt by howmuch I put into it.
(37:41):
And when I got accepted I waslike, oh my God.
Like this is where I'm supposedto be.
'cause I didn't apply to anyother school.
I said, you know, I'm gonnaapply to UTK.
If I don't get in, I'll figuresomething else out.
And wow.
I, yeah.
Yeah, that was probably such agood moment for you, especially
after dealing with all the lawschool stuff.
Yeah, the, the COVID and the lawschool stuff.
(38:02):
And then, yeah, it was justquite the journey to get to
where I am today, but I wouldn'tbe who I am without it, like
with all the things that havehappened, so.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Well, I am so proud of you.
You're killing it.
Yes.
Alright, so last segment beforewe get to our closing.
So I know you've talked a lotabout how much pride you take in
being an educated black womantoday.
(38:22):
I think your post on like aroundaround when you graduated, I
think it said only like 9% ofblack women have their masters.
Is that right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So can you just talk a littlebit more about what that means
to you and how has that identityshaped how you show up in the
world?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it means a lot to me.
Um, like I said, I have apassion for DEI and a really big
passion for representationbecause even within my space
(38:45):
right now, there aren't a lot ofpeople that look like me.
And in the ad world, there's nota lot of people who look like
me, but they're marketing topeople who look like me.
And even this past summer, I hadan internship and we were
talking through some culturalstuff and someone was, we're
talking about wigs and mind youmm-hmm.
I'm the only one in this roomthat had, that knew about wigs,
knew how they worked, all thisstuff.
(39:06):
And I remember these girls weretalking about all these ideas of
what they wanted to do with it.
And I'm like, this isn'tculturally relevant.
Like the person who wears a wigwould never do these things.
Yeah.
Or would or would never like buyinto this.
Yeah.
And that's when it hit me.
I was like, oh, this is how Ican create impact in my own way
by sharing my own experience.
Yes.
That's so cool.
I feel like I was chasing d therole and then I got advice from
(39:29):
someone and they were like, youcan have DEI wherever you are.
Like you are.
Yes.
DI like, you don't need thetitle.
Right.
So like you share yourexperience and share.
Mm-hmm.
And like that will be enough.
And I've kind of led with that.
And that's why it's so impactfulfor me to have my masters
because there aren't a lot oflike black women who have their
masters mm-hmm.
That look like me.
Especially not in the ad PRspace, but yet mm-hmm we're
(39:50):
severely saturating the marketthat we're like targeting, so.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
I have one Request I, I wantwhite women to be as free in
wearing wigs.
I want to be a platinum blonde,long hair, something.
Oh my God.
I want to bring wigs to thewhite people.
(40:11):
Seriously, I think it's sofreaking awesome that you know,
you can have long hair one day.
You can have it short.
The other, you can have itnatural.
We are just.
We don't have that, right?
Mm-hmm.
Look, I'll take you to the wigstore and I would love to
Platinum.
Yes.
(40:31):
So especially being a blackwoman, I feel like hair is an
expression.
So.
I like, I've always had my hairin any type of style.
I just think it's like, that'slike me, like I just love hair
as much as I love fashion.
And so, oh my gosh, well beready because, you're probably
gonna be very good in that worldof helping connect the culture
(40:53):
with the ad.
Mm-hmm.
And then as it grows, you'reeducating people.
For the next thing you know.
Yeah.
This, this special, like there'sa lot of money in that kind of
stuff, like the special tape andthe, the little caps that you
wear under'em.
And I, I'm like, how does that,how do, how can't even see the
(41:15):
wig.
I, yeah.
There is definitely like a lotof money in it and I didn't
realize that when I went intoit.
Ooh.
Um.
And the one thing I love aboutthe ad pr space is it's so
freeing.
I feel like business school isvery much like you show up, you
wear a, a, a gray suit, whitebutton down and that's it.
Mm-hmm.
This is like, the ad space islike, show your personality.
(41:36):
And that was the adjustment forme.
I was like, what?
Because usually in businessschool it's like they ask you
this, you say this, you do that,they do this.
Yeah.
Versus that is, is like, no, wewant you to be like yourself.
'cause they think being weird islike, that's how you make good
content.
Yeah.
Being yourself authentically.
And that's one thing I love.
Being in this space.
Oh, yeah.
It's definitely not the same ina lot of other careers.
(41:57):
Like being a lawyer.
Yeah.
Or, yeah, like anything else.
So yeah, that, that part'sreally fun.
Circling back to your originalanswer, I think it's great that
you.
Or like filling that holebecause you realize there's not
of other black women in thisindustry and people are giving
their opinions and they'rerunning campaigns when like they
may not know or they might, theymight not understand and you're
just like saying like, okay,this is how I make an impact
(42:18):
right here and right now.
Mm-hmm.
So I love that.
That's really awesome.
We're gonna get to our second tolast question.
What would you wanna say toyounger black girls navigating
their twenties just maybetwenties in general, but also
maybe sports pressure tosucceed, all of that stuff.
If you could speak to them rightnow, what would you wanna say?
I would say everything you wantis on the other side of fear.
(42:39):
my biggest thing the past fewyears is I'm gonna do it scared.
Regardless.
And that has landed me so manyopportunities.
Um, I remember my first time I,well, it was small, it was like,
do I wanna go with my friends?
Because I was having, like, Iwas feeling anxious and I was
like, do you wanna go out?
Do I not?
And I was like, I'm gonna go.
Cool.
Then I met like someone I'mreally close with now.
(43:01):
And then I had another momentwhere we had a New York trip for
school where it was like a, itwas like a networking trip.
And I remember the day be thetwo days before I was talking to
my parents, like, I don't thinkI should go.
I just feel so anxious.
Like, I don't know anyone.
I don't know my roommate.
I don't know who I'm flyingwith.
And literally from thatinternship, I met so many
amazing people.
(43:21):
I met this lady who connected mewith someone else that I ended
up getting a scholarship.
I ended up connecting withsomeone who landed me an
internship that summer.
And I just feel like every timeI've been scared and done it
anyways in a safe, in a safeway, I've always reap the
benefit of it.
So that's something I would sayis like not being afraid to like
be seen trying.
Mm-hmm.
(43:42):
And that even though you'rescared, it's probably'cause
you're meant to be there.
And I, it's called like thedevil trying to keep you out.
Yeah.
That's what you're meant tohave.
And it's making you feelanxious.
He's making you feel like youcan't, you're not enough in
reality.
Like you're mm-hmm.
You've been enough.
Yep.
So that's what I woulddefinitely say to someone.
Yeah.
That's very profound, wiseadvice.
I love that.
(44:02):
It's just getting outta yourcomfort zone.
'cause you know, I think a lotof times, and as someone that's
like chronically in my head, I.
Like will talk myself out ofcertain things or I'll talk
myself into anxiety so I canjust not do things.
Mm-hmm.
And then you like flash forwardand you're like, how much stuff
did I miss out on?
Like what opportunities did Imiss?
Like what experiences did I misspeople?
(44:24):
Did I miss meeting mm-hmm.
Okay, so for our closing, Idon't know if you watched any of
our episodes, but we do what wecall what she said.
So Lindsay, what is a piece ofadvice or a mindset that's
helped carry you through thischapter of becoming?
Oh, okay.
I've been thinking about thisone.
I saw it and I was like, I need,I need something good.
That's really helped me andsomething that's really helped
(44:46):
pushed me through is I'll alwaystell myself, if not this, then
it's something better.
And anytime I've gotten arejection letter or things
haven't worked out, I'm like, ifnot this, it's something better.
I'm supposed to be somewherebetter.
That's the only reason thisdidn't work out, and that's
helped me deal with thedisappointment of the no.
Mm-hmm.
'cause it can get hard,especially like for instance,
(45:08):
right now I get more rejectionletters.
I do acceptance'cause I'mmm-hmm.
Applying to a lot of jobs when Iwas applying to internships.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I applied to like 10,15 and I only heard back from
like one or two that I gotoffered from.
But that's all you need.
Like you only need one.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
You need one.
Yes.
Yeah.
Just reframing failure.
Especially like when a lot ofstuff we talked about today,
(45:30):
like you tie your identity to itor you become so fixated on like
the life you'll have once youacquire the certain thing.
Yeah.
And for someone who likeattaches themselves to
achievement, I feel like youhave to learn how to redefine
failure.
'cause you feel like you failed.
Mm-hmm.
And that's where I, I wasstarting to feel like I'm a
failure.
I'm like, no, like you just,they just don't want you for
whatever reason.
It could be because they justknew someone.
(45:50):
It doesn't have to be youspecific, right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I was looking for a jobfor months and months and
months.
That's a grind and golly.
Yeah.
Well the job market right nowsucks, so I was applying to
like.
At least 10 jobs a day andusually not hearing back.
But I would almost always getrejected and oh my gosh, that
was so hard.
Like day after day, it was justlike, no, no, no, no, no.
(46:12):
But I, I love that mantra oflike, if it's not this, then
it's something better.
Mm-hmm.
Because I try and trust in like,God has a plan and he'll put me
where I'm supposed to be whenI'm needed there.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
But yeah, it's, it's hard, but Ilike that just real short and
simple mantra.
That's good.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Oh my gosh.
Thank you so much for coming onthe podcast.
Thank you so much.
(46:33):
You're welcome.
I just knew you were gonna havesome absolute bombs.
Bombs to drop.
Oh my gosh.
It was so good.
It was so good.
And, and you guys, be watchingout'cause this girl's getting
ready to.
Power on I I know it.
I am speaking that intoexistence.
You are in the perfect spot,perfect head space, perfect
emotional space.
(46:53):
You know, sounds like you don'thave a lot of baggage of people
that you're having to take careof and such, so sky's the limit.
Hear that years ago.
Good for you girl, you to be incollege.
It was a different story.
Right?
Right.
We.
Well, I'm so happy that we arenot the same people we were in
(47:14):
college.
And Amen.
Like I said, I'm so proud ofyou, not just for all the like
education and all those thingsyou're accomplishing, but like
just, I think in this interviewyou dropped so many insightful
downloads that reflect how muchself love and how much inner
work you've done.
Yeah.
I'm excited for people to listento this interview for sure.
Yes, yes.
Awesome.
(47:34):
Okay, well, the way we end ourepisode.
I gotta get my microphone outtathe way'cause I'll whack it.
We'll do like 3, 2, 1, and we'llgo like, and that's, that's the
t and we do a high five.
So do I cover my here topartake?
Do I cover my thing?
I mean, you can just high fiveit, I mean, yeah.
Okay.
That's, that's cute.
Don't, don't think about it toomuch.
Alright.
3, 2, 1.
(47:56):
And, and that's, that's the, thetea.
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