February 25, 2025 • 51 mins
Welcome back to Generational Tea! Today, we’re diving into a topic that affects all of us at some point—pain. Whether chronic or temporary, pain is often seen as the enemy, but what if we could shift our mindset and see it as a friend instead? This episode is inspired by When We Hurt by Philip Yancey, which explores the life and work of Dr. Paul Brand, a world-renowned surgeon and leprosy specialist. His groundbreaking research revealed that life without pain can be far worse than we imagine.
- Join the conversation: What is your attitude toward pain -- could you improve your pain insurance? How did your weekly challenge go? Share your reflections in the comments or via our social media.
- What He Said: "Pain is a priceless essential gift—of that I have no doubt. And yet only by learning to master pain can we keep it from mastering us." – Dr. Paul Brand
- Follow us on TikTok and Instagram @generationalteapod, watch us on YouTube, and listen to us wherever you get your podcasts!
- Microphone flags by Impact PBS: https://impactpbs.com/
- Intro music by Cymatix
- Logo by @makariann
- Business email: generationalteapod@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
Welcome to another episode ofthe generational tea podcast.
I'm your host Kena and I'mRonnie and today We are going to
be talking about pain.
Yes We know if you do notpersonally experience some type
of chronic pain you are relatedto someone you have a loved one
That's struggling or friends.
They're struggling because painis a real thing.
(00:35):
It's universal and it isuniversal.
So, we are going to just talk alittle bit about some of the
ways that you can deal withchronic pain.
I'll share a little bit about mystory and how I was able to get
through some very painfulsituations.
But for now, we're going to talka little bit about And the book
(00:57):
is entitled, Why We Hurt.
The author of this book isPhilip Yancey.
but the book follows a late Dr.
Brand.
And what Dr.
Brand did is, he worked withleprosy patients.
He was a hand surgeon who endedup going and working in, leprosy
(01:17):
hospitals, trying to prevent anykind of, amputations.
He also worked closely with,folks who are suffering from
diabetic retinopathy, notretinopathy, shoot, diabetic
neuropathy.
There you go.
Diabetic neuropathy.
That is a hard word to say.
Um, and so, I came across thisbook probably eight years ago.
(01:44):
Yeah.
And you've told me, even beforewe started this podcast, how
much of an impact this book madeon you, and after reading it, I
can see why.
And, for me, someone who hasn'tdealt with chronic pain, or,
like, I don't have a ton ofpeople in my life that have
dealt with it, I think it's soimportant that we reframe pain
in our minds, so that when weget to a later stage in our life
(02:07):
where we're having to deal withsome kind of pain, whether it's
chronic or severe, like, pain isa part of life.
All of our lives, whether it'shappening all the time or if
it's every once in a while, butI think we do have an
interesting culture and approachto pain in America that can make
it harder to deal with when weactually do get to a point where
we have to deal with that.
(02:28):
So this book really made animpact on me and as someone that
doesn't struggle with chronicpain.
So I can imagine how much of animpact it made for you as
someone who has dealt with that.
And I think it's somethingthat's really eye opening to a
lot of people or will be.
Yeah, absolutely.
So for sure.
Hold on.
And we're going to just kind oftake you through some of the
Concepts of this book and thenintertwine some personal stories
(02:51):
as well.
All right, so Ronnie first sincethis book made such an impact on
you Can you tell me a little bitabout your experience with
chronic pain?
Well less for me more for ourlisteners.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah well, I just, havesuffered, from some chronic
pain, started around 2010 to 11and, what happened was I had
(03:13):
some kind of injury or, actuallythere really ended up, it looks
like it was a congenital defectin my right hip where my sciatic
nerve runs through.
The muscle in my hip and,sitting, standing, everything
was excruciating and, that ledto one pain medicine after
(03:37):
another and now a muscle relaxerand something for neuropathy
that I had, nerve pain medicine.
It just kind of became aslippery slope.
I'll tell you that what happenedwas I was so desperate, I was so
desperate at the time to findsomeone, anyone that could help
(03:58):
me not just deal with pain, buthow to live differently while
realizing that this was a lifesentence that I, you know,
there's no surgical treatment.
I tried the one and it didn't gowell.
So I had a lot of time on myhands and I started doing a lot
(04:21):
of research about chronic painand especially chronic sciatic
pain.
And there were a couple of paincenters, One in particular was,
in Texas.
and there were also a paincenter in, D.
C.
They had one.
Nothing around in the southeastat all.
Really, there wasn't even painclinics back then, but I knew
(04:44):
that I was desperate for achange.
so this time fast forward, itwas probably 2015, 2016.
when I moved, uh, Weston off tocollege as well, I had some time
and I needed the time to focus.
On how to get better and notjust get through yeah, but how
to get better and one thing thatI found in these, teaching
(05:09):
hospitals that had pain clinicsor pain centers that were
treating this chronic sciaticais they all had Doctors, social
workers, nurse practitioners,pharmacists helping out with
dosing medication.
They had that.
But one in particular thing thatthese few that I found that had
(05:30):
some success was they all had achronic pain psychiatrist on the
team.
So that led me down a road of.
I need to see someone because ifit's working in these, teaching
hospitals and they're using thisto do research, there's
(05:50):
something to this, chronic pain,management and psychiatry that
led me to, my.
I am now still a psychiatristhere in Greenville, Dr.
David Moore, and, I went to Dr.
Moore desperate.
I did not want another painmedicine.
I did not want to add anything.
(06:11):
I wanted to get off of thecouch, out of my house, and live
again.
And so, I just sat down withhim, and there was a few things
that he said immediately thatturned the tide for me.
And it is still, it justabsolutely took me to a
(06:33):
different mode and a way to livewith this pain.
I think a lot of people, whenyou have something like a
chronic pain, there is theinitial of seeing everybody,
getting the diagnosis, now getthe treatment, the surgery.
And then, you know, that thingprolongs five or six years.
(06:53):
And you've done all that, what'snext?
And so I was severely depressed,anxious about everything,
couldn't get out of my car to gointo the grocery store.
I remember sitting many times inthe bilo parking lot and I just
could not get out of the carbecause I had paralyzing anxiety
(07:13):
and the anxiety, I knew therewas a physical reason why I was
anxious.
It was because doing somethingwasn't like a Quick trip to the
grocery store, having to standin line, having to be up.
I knew that it was going to costme a lot of comfort.
And so my anxiety was really ona runaway train.
(07:38):
My anxiety now was not just thefact that I might be cooped in
the house for a few days.
My anxiety now was, okay, if Igo to dinner.
How long am I going to be ableto sit there?
I remember calling around andasking like, what's your seating
situation?
Do you have booths?
I carried around, a pad, like a,memory foam pad to pretty much
(08:01):
everywhere, all football games,and all that.
But what resounded with me withDr.
Moore is he said, That painmedicines are depressants.
So he was not at all surprisedwhen he looked at my med list
that I would be depressed andanxious.
The second thing that he said,Was he said the more pain
(08:23):
medicines like opioids that youtake, the more you take, the
more pain you have, I mean, wow,that's I've heard it from you
before, but every time I justcan't imagine what it must have
been like to live with that andI hate that you had to go
through all that, but you didpersevere and you're a stronger
person for it today.
Absolutely.
(08:44):
I am curious, do you think ifyou would have read this book
before this onset in your life,do you think you would have been
better prepared to deal witheverything?
Absolutely.
I feel like that there'sdefinitely a focus on being
completely pain free.
Mm hmm.
In America.
And, I was looking for that tobe pain free, and I was on a ton
(09:09):
of medicine.
one of the medicines was calledOpana.
It's been pulled by the FDA.
It is the precursor or the thingthat has driven opioid crisis in
the United States of America.
And what we thought was a one toone pain medicine to morphine,
this was three times.
Could be three to eight timesthe amount.
(09:31):
Wow.
So, I was in a stupor, but stillhaving pain., Yeah, I do think,
I think there are so many thingsthat I would change.
Now going back through, I don'tthink I had to lose my job.
I think if I'd had better copingskills and, really took the time
to care for instead of justseeking this thing of how I'm
(09:55):
going to get through this, but.
Realizing I had to go around it,you know, the the shortest
distance was not the leastresistance So, yeah.
Yeah Well, I mean like you'rekind of getting into it and I
kind of mentioned it earlier wehave a culture around pain here
and I think a lot of that comesfrom is the society, and
(10:20):
especially in America, I'm sureother places as well.
We kind of have the illusionthat all discomfort can be
controlled, like you take thisdrug, you do this, you do X, Y,
and Z, and you can control orget rid of your discomfort.
Right.
And then when we do end upexperiencing involuntary pain or
a pain that can't be controlledbecause that's like what you
(10:40):
went through couldn't have beencontrolled.
You needed the right copingskills, like our perceptions and
our attitudes can stall ourpreparedness and dealing with
that if we're not getting aheadof it mentally.
that's why we're covering thisbook is because we want to give
you the skills that you need incase you do deal with great pain
or chronic pain in the future,which, you know, Almost all of
us will face severe pain in thefuture, so it's a good thing for
(11:03):
us to reframe it.
So in terms of reframing it,this book is kind of going into
how pain can actually be abeautiful thing.
Albeit uncomfortable, but it canbe a beautiful thing, which
sounds like almost like a wildstatement.
Yeah.
But it's true.
I mean, think about it.
Our body has this magical systemto alert us to danger.
(11:24):
And if we didn't have it, wherewould that leave us?
And what's so interesting aboutthis book is he's working with
leprosy patients who, in severecases, they don't have the pain
warning signals.
Like, they're completelypainless, and it's the worst
thing ever.
Right, right.
I'm not gonna get into, like,everything that goes into it.
I think a lot of you guys shouldread this book, but, I mean,
(11:44):
when you don't have this naturalwarning system your body self
destructs.
Yeah, basically.
Yeah.
So pain can be a beautifulthing.
I know early on in dr.
Brands practice, he was tryingto make a bionic hand that would
mimic pain sensation because ofthe leprosy folks.
(12:07):
And I don't know what you guysknow about leprosy.
I, I know that, you know, it wasmentioned a lot in scripture in
the Bible and, didn't evenrealize it's still very Very
alive and well, especially inAsia and I think South America,
but yeah, so no pain signals,they don't feel when they get
(12:28):
burnt, you know, they touchsomething.
If it's hot, they can't see it.
And so before they know it,they've.
You know cook their hand orstepped on something with their
feet and then they have aninfection and it just goes so
yes I was surprised to like howmany things pain alerts you to
so without pain like in thesesevere leprosy patients Your
(12:49):
body has no way to alert you toa variety of things like a heart
attack Strep appendicitis strokelike some some stuff that's
everyday things or likeillnesses or colds or whatever
like your body will have No ideabecause they don't have the
capacity to Produce painsignals, I guess.
So that makes you look at painin a different perspective.
And in this book, he's kind ofphrasing it as like the scout of
(13:13):
the real enemy.
It's the gift that nobody wants.
And it's also an instructor ifyou let it be.
Yeah.
So like you were talking aboutpainkillers and how they kind of
send you into a super and theycan create more pain and more.
They're not really solving theproblem.
It's just like a temporary fix.
Painkillers can also help youlike they can make you lose the
power of your inner doctor.
(13:33):
Which is, and your pain signalsare a part of that.
human bodies are designedincredibly beyond any, no one
can fathom how amazing the humanbody is, and pain is just
another aspect of that.
And, I found it reallyinteresting, like,, breaking
down the science of it.
In the book he really gets intothe pain responses that we
physically feel are justtransducers sifting through many
(13:56):
varieties of traumatic constantand repetitive stress signals
that report into the spinalcolumn.
So that's the way the painresponses actually work, which I
didn't know that before, so Ifound it interesting.
But I just really find itintriguing like that this design
was built into our bodies andhow amazing it is.
Like we may not like the resultit gives us because it's an
(14:17):
uncomfortable and Severe feelingbut it has its uses and I think
acknowledging its uses andreframing it will Just
completely change your life.
Yeah, maybe not like now but inthe future when you do have to
deal with pain I think you willyour life would be changed
because you're prepared to copewith it Yeah, and one thing that
(14:38):
he mentioned, that was probablyone of the saddest things about
these folks that have leprosy ordiabetic retinopathy, but
specifically those who do notexperience pain, they also can't
experience touch.
They don't know what it's likefor somebody to comfort them
because they would not feel thatat all.
(15:00):
And so while we have pain, thatis a result of how we feel.
It's also the reason how we canfeel it's why we can feel so we
know if I get sunburnt, I knowto get out of the Sun.
Yeah, and and so on and so forthSo yeah, that's really cool.
Well, not cool, but Parts of itare cool.
(15:23):
Yes This is so inserious, butthe first time I ever heard
about leprosy I think I waswatching the movie Ice Age and
said the sloth was like leprosyReally?
Anyways.
Crazy.
I was raised on TV.
It's fine.
(15:44):
Doubtful.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so we're going to breakdown into A little sections
here.
And before we really dive intohow we can cope with pain and
understanding a little better,we're going to talk about the
three stages of pain so we canunderstand that.
So first is the pain signal andthis is the alarm that goes off
(16:04):
when nerve endings and theperiphery sense danger.
So danger, danger, danger.
Yes, yes.
And then secondly, that signalthen sends a message and the
message is the second stage.
What happens with that, thespinal cord and the base of the
brain act as a spinal gate tosort out which of the many
millions of signals deserve tobe forwarded as a message to the
(16:29):
brain.
So this is what happens when youhave a lot going on.
Should our bodies, if they workright, they will send the
loudest message to the mostcrucial part of that pain.
I'm just so fascinated by howthat works.
(16:50):
It is.
So the third stage is response.
So this actually takes place inthe higher brain, especially
your cerebral cortex, which isgoing to sort through the pre
screened messages and willdecide on which response to give
based on the Messages it isreceiving.
Pain does not exist in your bodyor your mind until the entire
cycle completes and the thing tonote about the severity of the
(17:14):
pain.
It's going to depend on avariety of things.
Pain is universal, but it's alsosubjective in a sense.
So it's going to depend on yourpersonality.
What's going on like externallyand what's going on in your
brain at the time.
And also, of course, theseverity of the injury is going
to affect the pain.
The pain, but a lot of thisfocus on the book is your
(17:37):
emotional preparedness and thepower of your brain in the mix
of your cultural expectations,which you can shift is going to
actually alter the chemistry ofyour brain, which in turn will
alter your response to pain.
So it's very scientific, butit's also very, I don't want to
say intangible, but because itdeals with your mind so much,
(17:58):
there's all like a science toit, but then again, there's not,
it's almost like a wholemetaphysical level of dealing
with pain.
Yeah.
Do you agree?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I and we'll get into, causethere's certain things that
heighten pain and realizing whatthat is and they're not,
everything can't be controlled,but there are certain things
that we can look at and observeand make small changes to, to
(18:20):
change that whole pathway.
Yeah.
So while we're on that note,we're going to next talk about
the power of your mind withpain.
And.
What I heard in your story isyou went to a psychiatrist and
he helped you kind of shift yourmind with pain and that helped
you cope better.
Would you say that's right?
Yeah, I mean he hit, he helpedme.
Obviously he helped you in amyriad of ways, but.
(18:41):
Right, but those two were thekey.
If those hadn't, if he hadn'thave said those two things.
in the first visit, I probablywouldn't have went back because
I needed answers and he hadthem.
So that started, me down thepathway of trying to get off as
much pain medicine as possible.
and gradually it settled back inwhere, you know, I could bump my
(19:05):
elbow.
And when I was on a lot of,Opiates or pain medicine it
would feel like Lightning isgoing through it.
You could do the same thing andit not even face you.
Yeah, so yeah Definitely.
So in adults who will have alarger pool of experience and
emotions to draw on it makes themind play an even bigger role in
(19:28):
converting our perception ofpain whereas Children,
definitely not the same thing,but your perception of pain can
be the difference between copingversus suffering.
It's just a very big difference.
what takes place in your mind isdefinitely the most important
aspect and.
Like we've been saying, we feellike this is so important
(19:50):
because to prepare us and ourlisteners and anyone who will
hear us out and maybe thinkabout this, is creating your own
pain insurance.
So preparing yourself for futurepain, which I think is really
important and I feel like wetend to procrastinate a lot of
things and this is probably oneof them.
Oh yeah.
But investing in these thingsearly is going to set you up for
(20:13):
success later in your life.
If you're waiting to craft outthis pain insurance and changing
your perception towards painuntil you're actually
experiencing it, it's gonna bereally difficult to do that in
the moment because pain when youfeel it, it tends to demolish
your objectivity and it makes itdifficult to alter your
perceptions and your brainchemistry that has been
solidified at the time of yourinjury.
And now you're trying to dealwith the pain and you're trying
(20:35):
to unwork your brain chemistryand change your perceptions.
So I feel like that gives you anidea of the importance of it.
Being proactive when it comes topain.
Here's some tips of how to trainyour brain and your body's
response to pain.
One of the major tips is thesense of gratitude.
(20:56):
And I remember exactly where Iwas when I started to not feel
numb again.
It was along the same lines ofthe time frame where I was
trying to back off of painmedicine and also feel because I
just wanted to be numb and Idid.
I numbed myself.
For years, because the pain wasso bad.
(21:18):
I remember specifically, we weredoing, we were painting our
house.
We were putting hardy boardsiding on the concrete siding of
the house that had, like, some,pine siding.
And I needed to run and get somemore paint.
And on my way back from gettingthe paint.
(21:38):
I am pulling up to my house andit's still in the distance.
But what I see is my family andcommunity all coming together
and putting the siding on myhouse.
And for the first time in a longtime, I had gratitude.
(21:58):
I was grateful.
And that It's so crucial becauseyou do get hung up with inside
and what's going on andeventually people are going to
stop asking questions unlessthey, have a really, really
close connection with you.
So the gratitude that I feltpulling down my driveway seeing.
(22:22):
My husband, brothers, brother inlaws, my dad, everyone working
together to improve our house.
And they were doing all that forme and Jim.
And so gratitude is a big, bigpart.
And it's not just a thing oflike be more grateful and Your
(22:43):
pain will get better.
There's actually like a sciencebehind this.
So in this book they talk aboutDr.
Hans Selle Selle?
Selle?
Yeah.
Pretty cool doctor, I'm sure,but anyways, he is a pioneer in
the science of emotions and howthey impact your health.
And his research pretty muchsummed up that vengeance and
(23:06):
bitterness as emotionalresponses are the most likely to
produce high stress in humanbeings, and high stress is
linked to poor health.
So there's that.
And conversely, gratitude is thesingle most nourishing response
to health.
And this is after decades of hisresearch.
Wow.
So there is science behind howbeing grateful can impact your
(23:26):
health.
And it's not just like physicalhealth.
I think that's also, it alsogoes.
It's a long ways in terms ofmental health, mental health,
family health, all of it.
Grateful people.
Yes.
Yes.
So he also found that factorssuch as anxiety and depression,
which we've already talkedabout, can trigger attacks of
(23:47):
pain or intensify pain alreadypresent.
people, it's interesting whenyou talk about how pain is or
painkillers are depressants.
I know.
Cool.
So, no wonder we have a bunch ofnumb people walking around.
Yeah, there's a crisis withpainkillers on our streets.
Yes, it is a real issue.
(24:08):
So sad.
Yeah.
Yeah, so,, in that note, he alsofound that people that view pain
as the enemy and tend to adopt avictim complex when they're
experiencing pain or theyrespond with bitterness, that
can make the pain even worse,kind of just like what you were
saying, so.
I think when we do experiencepain, we have to maybe just take
a moment and try to respond withgratitude because your body is
(24:31):
using this language of painbecause that is how it is
designed to get your attention.
So try to think about it in agratitude sense, befriend the
pain, disarm and welcome it.
And it will pass and you'll beable to cope with it better.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gratitude is, the opposite ofvictim and, bitterness.
(24:52):
So they can't coexist at thesame time.
You can't be bitter and gratefulat the same time, and it can be
hard to, just shift into a thingof, into a mindset of gratitude.
Some things I like to do, and Iknow I'm struggling with being
grateful for things around me isto either journal about it, or
I'll just write a list of, like,things I can be immediately
grateful for in that moment.
(25:13):
And I think even if you arefilled with bitterness or you're
having trouble with what's goingon around here, whatever the
heck is going on, you can lookat that list and just
immediately.
It makes me feel better.
Yeah.
And.
Yeah, it's just great.
And we should, uh, maybe do anepisode on in future just on
gratitude.
Yeah.
I like that.
Yes.
(25:33):
All right.
So another tip is to listen toyour pain.
So don't silence it.
Don't try to ignore it.
Strain your ears to hear itbecause your body is trying to
tell you something.
And the majority of the medicalprofession, especially in
America, views pain as anillness and not a symptom
because your body does have abuilt in doctor and listening to
your Your pain can help you hearit, so listen to the pain and
(25:57):
ask yourself questions like isthere a pattern to my pain?
Does it tend to occur at certaintimes?
Does it seem to relate to myjob, to a relationship?
Does eating affect it?
I think the more we tend to tuneinto our pain and try and figure
it out or ask questions aboutit, that can help us get to a
solution, possibly more thanthat.
(26:19):
Medical professionals be able toof course, like medical
professionals have their placeand sometimes you're not going
to be able to just figure it outby listening to your pain.
That's not really what I'msaying.
But I think it has valuableinsights that the medical
profession tends to overlook.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As an ER nurse for many years,my favorite patient has always
(26:39):
been a kidney stone patient.
Because I know exactly what todo to make them feel better and
I would make like a little clockin my head when I would go to
pull somebody back who had Akidney stone.
It was like I had in my mindwithin three minutes.
This pain will go away and Iknew exactly what I needed to do
(27:03):
to make that happen and and andthat is When you look at the
most painful experiences thatpeople address, kidney stone is
right up there with birthing ababy.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
a lot of people nowadays alsospecifically women, migraines
(27:24):
are a big issue too.
And those are the ones that youcan really, if you start looking
at hormonally and where you arein your cycle, a lot of those
are driven by.
Hormones.
Dude, we could do a wholeepisode on like understanding
the stages of your cycle and howit's impacted.
Oh, that is like eye opening,mind blowing.
Oh, yeah.
But anyways, let's go back topain.
(27:45):
Yes, let's go back here.
So, spiritual practices areactually a tip for this pain
insurance.
And even if you're not likenecessarily a religious person,
there are Quote unquotespiritual practices you can
adopt and meditation is a bigone that people from all
religions or no religions useBecause it's a great way to
(28:05):
train your relaxation responsein your body So meditation is an
act of the mind and it triggersphysiological changes in your
body, which would include like agradual lowering of your
respiratory rates changes inyour brave weight Brave brain
wave patterns and a generaldecrease in your sympathetic,
(28:27):
sympathetic.
Wow.
And sympathetic nervous systemactivities.
So in other words, meditation isa great way to train your mind
and your body from going to astate of inner stress, inner
stress to calmness.
And that's a great tool to addto your pain insurance.
(28:47):
Yes.
Yes.
Because if you've only feltanxiety, it's hard to even
conceptualize that there's anypeace.
Yeah.
so yeah.
Yeah.
I need to get back intomeditating.
I had been doing it in collegeand.
It was amazing.
I felt so calm after and thatcalmness would persist for so
(29:09):
long and I think it's a thingwhere you have to do it
consistently to reap thebenefits and I just need to work
it back into my schedule, but itdefinitely is great when you do
it consistently and I think itcan be a great tool in this pain
insurance bag for sure.
Yes, yes.
one of the best things you cando to prepare your pain
insurance is to surroundyourself with a loving
(29:30):
community.
One that will stand by you whentragedy strikes.
But it goes both ways.
you'll be that for them.
So you have like a back andforth relationship, but then
also your friends that love you,they'll celebrate when you're
doing well, and they'll consoleyou when you're not.
(29:51):
I have Still great friend ofmine.
Her name is Helen and I tell herso much Not recently.
I need to just retell her thisbut she probably got tired of
hearing it because I was like Iowe my life to you because She
would not let me not answer myphone.
(30:14):
If she texts me, call me, shegave me space.
Cause she knew I was in a spacethat required a lot of me and
she just did it in a perfectway.
As far as, not Putting stress onme because the last thing I
needed was another thing to dowhen you're sleeping all the
time.
Yeah, she did not overwhelm me.
(30:35):
I never felt guilty But and shewould give me time so she'd
wait, you know, five days,seven, still absent, heard from
me.
The next thing I know she'spulling in my driveway.
She would come over and justlike Come in the house, and how
are you doing?
she went in this community offolks that are gonna help,
(30:58):
you're gonna walk with.
My husband needed help.
He was dealing with all of this.
I just I'm sorry, I just smelleda rancid dog fart.
I know you can't smell, but Itis atrocious.
Is it Josie?
No, it's definitely a Sawyerfart.
(31:19):
Be lucky.
You got a bad sniffer.
I am very grateful for that.
So yeah, this community, justone thing that I would challenge
you to do if you're goingthrough something heavy is even
if you don't think you need Thatfriend at that moment or you
(31:40):
think you have nothing to giveallow that person to help you
because They're also helpingyour community And you know,
both of our kids were in collegeWe didn't want them to be
bothered by this and it endedup, you know, Jim My husband, he
was carrying a lot of that.
My parents were worried andwould check on me, and stuff.
(32:03):
But as far as like, come and getin my face and, you know, bring
me a milkshake or whatever,Helen, really was, uh, that
sense of community with me.
So thank you, Helen.
Helen.
We love you, Helen.
Yes, I love that idea, and Ifeel like a lot of things we
talk about, the importance ofcommunity is just paramount.
(32:27):
It is.
In so many different things.
I think we talked about that intransitions, too.
It's just having the rightcircle, and then also realizing
it's a two way street.
And that, you know, when youhave needs, they'll help you,
and when they have needs, you'llhelp them.
Because we are part of acollective, and we have to help
each other out.
So, the last tip, as far as paininsurance goes, is the power of
(32:50):
distraction.
So, knowing how to distractyourself.
Because we all carry On ournecks is amazing capacity for
pain management, distracting uswith activities, whatever, so
activities divert your mind frompain.
So, whether that's hobbies,work, reading, humor, hobbies,
pets, sports, etc, etc.
(33:10):
They can be great distractorsfrom pain, which can help you
cope with it.
And another thing that he talksabout in this book is that
coping with chronic pain.
Does depend on a patient'swillingness to exercise and
increase productive activitydespite the feeling of pain.
So distraction can maybe be away for you to help increase
that productivity so that you'renot feeling, I guess, useless.
(33:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is that how you felt?
Yes.
You know, eventually you're justexisting.
You're not living.
Yeah.
And, and you're not evenexisting well.
So, and this was something, thispart of coping and, getting that
men are fixers.
So, and then Jim also as anexercise physiologist, so he, of
(33:55):
course, was just trying to fixme, fix me, fix me all the time.
and wouldn't really let me goand do a lot, but our
relationship evolved.
We understood once I was notnumb anymore, because let me
tell you, you cannot communicatewith your community, your loved
ones, if you're numb, that isexisting, it is not living.
(34:19):
that's another, like, I feellike existing versus living is.
It's a lot like coping versussuffering.
Yeah.
Which is what they talk about inthis book.
Yeah.
And the difference between it,like, no matter how severe your
pain is, you can always movefrom a state of coping versus
remaining in suffering.
Right.
I did some research on pain andthis distraction part, they're
using this a lot in dental care.
(34:41):
And so they are allowingpatients now, encouraging them,
bring in your headphones, youknow, listen to a book or listen
to music and it works.
It works.
And so they, they've looked atthis and, been able to like
severely decrease the amount ofanalgesic that they need to use
(35:04):
because of this distractingmechanism.
So I'm here for it.
All right.
Next we're going to move on tointensifiers of pain.
So being aware of this can maybemitigate the effects of this and
make sure that You're moving outof these states in order to not
make your pain worse when you'redealing with it.
And the first one is fear and itis by far the biggest
(35:27):
intensifier of pain inmeasurable physiological ways.
So the most pain I have everbeen in was when I was getting
an IUD put in and I've had thatdone twice and my anxiety and my
fear going into my second timegetting one put in was
Paralyzing.
And I felt like my second timewas by far more painful, but
(35:49):
when I look back on it, I thinkit probably was the fear that
was Amping it up.
Yeah, they're finally puttingit.
I was like Well, and so if youif you see that you're like, if
you can experience pain forinstance Weston your husband he
was not somebody that I couldsay don't touch that.
(36:10):
It's hot He had to he's lookingat me the whole time and he's
just sliding his hand over totouch it Well, if it creates
pain, you know a negativeresponse Chances are you're not
going to want to do that again.
So I think the fear part is whatkeeps us in that pain cycle it's
(36:31):
the fear of the impending pain.
Yeah, definitely And I thinkthat's what it was for me.
Yes Yes, and it's not that youknow Fear is a bad thing because
they talk about also knowing thedifference between good versus
bad fear and how to know when abad Fear might be holding you
back or Amplifying the problemor creating other problems But
The thing to acknowledge is thatpain is unavoidable, but misery
(36:54):
in that living in fear state.
Is optional if we can train ourbrains to overcome it life
Changing words right there Ain'tthat the truth?
Yes All right.
The next one is anger I'm,sorry.
I have a bb our friend.
Her little daughter is obsessedwith the characters from inside
(37:15):
out and she's like joy and angerOh, so adorable So I think in
the United States with how muchwe have going on, even not
today, but.
There's always something goingon, and I think a lot of
external things and societalthings are making this country,
(37:37):
and really, I mean, anywhere,I'm sure, is a fertile ground
for feelings like anger andresentment and frustration, and
those are all cards from thesame deck, and they're, I feel
like they're very easy emotionsto just slip into.
Oh, yeah.
For sure, if you're not beingaware of it.
but in terms of physiologically,if anger is not dealt with in
your mind or if you'reconstantly angry and unable to
(38:00):
get past that, it will actuallyrelease the poison into the body
and it'll affect your health.
And I'm sure if you're dealingwith chronic pain and you're
really angry about it, you'relike, why is this happening to
me?
It's so unfair.
I'm so angry.
That's just going to make itworse.
Yeah.
And it sucks.
Like, yeah, I'm just, it's easyto fall into the victim complex,
(38:21):
but when we can move past thatand we can move past our anger
and let go of it, then we canmove into more of a gratitude
state because I don't thinkanger and gratitude go together
at all.
Like it's either one or theother.
Yeah, for sure.
The other intense fire of painand this is probably one of the
biggest ones for me when I wasgoing through this was guilt.
(38:43):
I felt guilty about everything.
you know, I felt guilty that my,my kids, I feel like they grew
up, had to grow up too fast.
I felt guilty because our wholefamily was very active and all
of a sudden, um, Vacationstopped, you know, the hiking,
the biking, all that, it juststopped.
And, while I would encouragethem to go and do, and
(39:07):
occasionally they would, theguys in my home were, they
wanted to be with me.
More than doing the activity andI knew that was coming from a
place of genuine love.
I was not able to receive thatas genuine love because of anger
and then that guilt of not beingable to do what I used to do.
(39:32):
Yeah, I can't imagine.
I think that's a very normalresponse.
Yeah, I was guilty.
I felt guilty because I couldn'tgo to the grocery store.
I felt guilty because I hatecooking.
I still hate cooking, but Idon't feel guilty about it
anymore.
Um, see, there's freedom.
I'm free! I'm free! so I justfelt guilty about everything and
(39:56):
what ends up happening or whatended up happening with me is
the very things that I feltguilty about.
I ended up resenting.
So now I'm at the point, youknow, I've come through this.
I'm still guilty.
I still feel a lot of guilt.
Well, if that is not channeledand turned around.
(40:17):
Then it's not that you feelguilty because you couldn't do
the activity.
Now you feel guilty because youdon't treat the person that asks
you to do the activity the same.
You start to resent them.
Mm.
It's just like the whole fearthing.
Yeah.
The fear of pain.
If you've, if you experienced itone time, like with you in the
IUD, you are, you had no ideawhat to expect the first time.
(40:38):
Yeah.
But the second time you did.
Yeah.
That made it so much worse.
and, and it made it worse.
and same thing, I feel like withthis, this guilt.
Yeah.
it is a slippery slope.
Mm-hmm Guilt.
does not produce anythingworthwhile.
I think as women, it's so hardfor us to forgive ourselves and
(40:59):
it's so much easier for us toforgive others.
And this may not just be a womanthing.
I'm sure it's probably a humanthing, but I think maybe
especially for women.
But anyways, self forgiveness isnecessary self care, especially
when you're feeling guilty aboutsomething that's out of your
control.
I think you still have toforgive yourself for like
feeling guilty and anything elsethat comes along with that and
(41:21):
be able to move past it,obviously, you know, harder,
harder done than said.
Yeah, yeah.
But definitely, and what'sinteresting about this book when
they're talking about Gil isthey, they bring in a lot of
stories about, Other doctors andchronic pain centers and they
kind of connect all that to themessage they're sending and they
(41:42):
say that many counselors atchronic pain centers Report that
their most challenging most painridden Patients are the ones
with the most deep rootedfeelings of guilt So that really
shows you that guilt can't be anintensifier of pain right and
that we have to let go of itSomehow it may not be easy and
it may not be fast, but we gottado it And the forgiveness is,
(42:05):
first you have to forgiveyourself.
So, most times the hardestforgiveness to give.
Yes, yes.
Which is terrible, but it'strue.
Yeah.
so the next one is loneliness.
And this kind of comes in thesame package of pain as it's
something that.
You know, it's universal.
It's also very subjective andthey're both things that we all
experience, but they can'treally be shared necessarily So
(42:29):
I think the big message behindthis is you know loneliness is
an obvious intensifier of painif you're feeling very isolated
then I think it can be easier toexperience other intensifiers of
pain and you know, It just showsthe how important it is for us
to come together and pain andloneliness are central of what
it means to be a human being andthere's others that understand
(42:50):
it so deeply.
So if we're really trying tocome together and build our
community and have our villageand all that, I think that just
requires an understanding ofloneliness.
And, you know, Understandingthat we have the capacity to
prevent loneliness.
Yes, and I did not explain thatat all.
Well When I think aboutloneliness and pain I think
(43:13):
about you Sleep a lot becauseyou're taking pain medicine.
When you're awake, you feelguilty, anger, lonely.
So those are feelings that youdon't want.
So let's just take more painmedicine.
Yeah, or let's add a couple ofdrinks to that and you know,
somebody on the other side ofthis is dealing, I know, with
(43:36):
with some kind of addictionissue and it is a physiological
This is the no one goes to bedat night.
And says, tomorrow, I want to bean alcoholic.
Tomorrow, I'm going to behomeless.
(43:56):
No one intends for that tohappen.
But it does happen.
And this part about theloneliness can really keep you
numb.
you will search to quiet that inyour mind because however that
looks like, there's a lot ofpeople that are in a group of a
(44:17):
lot of people, but they're stilllonely.
Other people are lonely becausethere's no one around.
it looks different.
It looks very different, but theside effect.
It's the same.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yes, absolutely So helplessnessis our last intensifier of pain
And I think any person any humanbeing wants to feel like they
(44:41):
have a place and that they'reneeded And that's just a very
natural human thing Human desireand then suffering people and
I'm sure you can relate to thisfrom when you went through a
chronic pain period is Youwanted to feel like you were
needed you didn't want to feeluseless like you're talking
about like you didn't want tojust exist yeah stuff like that
and they talk about for someonethat experiences chronic pain or
(45:06):
you know is limited by pain isto seek the balance of Offering
help and offering too much help.
So being realistic about whatyou're capable of And then
seeking ways that you can, youknow, make your way and find
your place in the in between.
Yeah.
With that helplessness, if youare, if you're dealing with
(45:27):
something, you know, it is sotraumatic for everybody
involved.
I would just challenge you, findsomething that that friend or
sister or cousin or co worker,find something that you know
they're good at and ask them tohelp you with it.
And, and it does need to besmall.
(45:48):
Yeah, it just depends.
Like if you, if you havesomebody that you're still going
to work, they're working eighthours a day.
That's a, that's a different, ofcourse you can ask more work
related stuff.
the person that's been at homewho's lost their job and you
know, the pleasures of life or,or whatever.
It wasn't like I lost them.
(46:09):
I bent my knee to it.
I did dream job, best job ever.
Would still love to be doing it,but um It does change who you
are.
So finding something reallysimple So if you were thinking
right now, my mom has chronicmigraines For instance mine
(46:32):
doesn't but I'm just saying ifyou're saying my mom has chronic
migraines How can I help her?
Well one way would be to supporther in this phase of
helplessness by saying, youknow, she could maybe read a
book to the, the kids, thegrandchildren, just simple
(46:54):
things that we take for granted,but it's like, if somebody asked
you to do it, it does.
It creates a positive, likerefreshing.
Yes.
Yeah.
And it just takes that momentumand shifts it in a way where
now, You're outside ofyourselves.
Yeah.
I think one of the best thingsthat we can do when we are,
(47:16):
depressed is to go servesomebody, go to the food.
It's the hardest thing to do,but it will be very effective.
Yes.
and you will come home with adifferent outlook and a
different attitude.
I would say nine times out of10.
Yeah, for sure.
I agree.
And then the book they talkabout again, the chronic pain
(47:37):
centers or clinics, the onesthat, assign and encourage tasks
to their patients actually seereduced need for pain medication
and sleeping pills?
Oh, yeah.
So, there you go.
Yeah.
Alright, we're gonna do what shesaid, or in this case, what he
said, because we're just gonnado a quote from the man himself.
The doctor that inspired thisbook, Dr.
(47:57):
Paul Brand.
So, I'm going to have Ronnieread this quote.
His quote is, Pain is apriceless essential gift, of
that I have no doubt, and yetonly by learning to master pain
can we keep it from masteringus.
So, pain can be seen as a gift,in the fact that it does send
(48:20):
signals.
That say this is danger aheadand it'll take work to get your
brain to view it that way Yes,so practice now if you aren't
someone that experiences chronicpain create that pain insurance
Try it out.
Yes, at least see how it goesfor you I I definitely think
there's some valuable insightsfrom this book, which is
obviously why we're covering itYeah, and I recommend anyone
(48:43):
that was interested by this orwants to learn more definitely
read this book Yeah, really goodand it is a religious book to
preface that we didn't includeall the religious stuff in it
Because we don't really want tocenter our podcast on that.
So just be aware.
If that's something you want toread, you don't have to.
But there is some very valuablescientific evidence in there.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
for this week's challenge We aregoing to for a week straight
(49:06):
seven days.
We're gonna end the day So weand Ronnie are gonna do it where
we tell each other Yeah, everyday at the end of the day five
things that we're grateful forAnd we're gonna see how that
makes us feel at the end of theweek.
I'm sure it'll make us feelgreat And and with very little
repeats so you can't say thesame five things I'm thankful
for free dogs and my husband andmy best friend.
(49:29):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah Um, really, you know thefirst couple of days is probably
going to be easy.
Yeah, but then As you reallydrill down in there, you're, I
know that you're going todiscover something that you've
taken for granted for a verylong time and just reframing
that in your mind is a part of ahealing process to pay
insurance.
(49:49):
So yeah, whether you want towrite it down, tell your
partner.
Do it with a friend, text eachother about it.
We want to challenge you guys todo that with us.
So write down, tell somebodyfive things you're grateful for
at the end of every day forseven days straight.
And we want to hear from youguys.
So if you do that and youthought it really had amazing
(50:10):
benefits just in a week, let usknow and you can let us know the
things you're grateful for.
Cause we want to sharepositivity.
We want to hear positivity fromyou guys.
Yeah.
Well.
Well, that's the end of thisepisode.
Thank you guys so much forjoining us again.
We have some, fun things comingup in the next couple of weeks.
thank you so much for listening.
We're so happy you joined us andwe'd really love it while you're
(50:33):
here.
Take the time to leave us areview, you know.
If you're watching on YouTube,you know, do your part.
Leave a heart.
Leave us a comment.
We love it.
It makes us so, so happy and italso helps us build this
business so we can reach morepeople.
So, thank you, thank you.
We really appreciate every oneof you.
Thank you and goodbye!
Welcome to another episode ofthe generational tea podcast.
I'm your host Kena and I'mRonnie and today We are going to
be talking about pain.
Yes We know if you do notpersonally experience some type
of chronic pain you are relatedto someone you have a loved one
That's struggling or friends.
They're struggling because painis a real thing.
(00:35):
It's universal and it isuniversal.
So, we are going to just talk alittle bit about some of the
ways that you can deal withchronic pain.
I'll share a little bit about mystory and how I was able to get
through some very painfulsituations.
But for now, we're going to talka little bit about And the book
(00:57):
is entitled, Why We Hurt.
The author of this book isPhilip Yancey.
but the book follows a late Dr.
Brand.
And what Dr.
Brand did is, he worked withleprosy patients.
He was a hand surgeon who endedup going and working in, leprosy
(01:17):
hospitals, trying to prevent anykind of, amputations.
He also worked closely with,folks who are suffering from
diabetic retinopathy, notretinopathy, shoot, diabetic
neuropathy.
There you go.
Diabetic neuropathy.
That is a hard word to say.
Um, and so, I came across thisbook probably eight years ago.
(01:44):
Yeah.
And you've told me, even beforewe started this podcast, how
much of an impact this book madeon you, and after reading it, I
can see why.
And, for me, someone who hasn'tdealt with chronic pain, or,
like, I don't have a ton ofpeople in my life that have
dealt with it, I think it's soimportant that we reframe pain
in our minds, so that when weget to a later stage in our life
(02:07):
where we're having to deal withsome kind of pain, whether it's
chronic or severe, like, pain isa part of life.
All of our lives, whether it'shappening all the time or if
it's every once in a while, butI think we do have an
interesting culture and approachto pain in America that can make
it harder to deal with when weactually do get to a point where
we have to deal with that.
(02:28):
So this book really made animpact on me and as someone that
doesn't struggle with chronicpain.
So I can imagine how much of animpact it made for you as
someone who has dealt with that.
And I think it's somethingthat's really eye opening to a
lot of people or will be.
Yeah, absolutely.
So for sure.
Hold on.
And we're going to just kind oftake you through some of the
Concepts of this book and thenintertwine some personal stories
(02:51):
as well.
All right, so Ronnie first sincethis book made such an impact on
you Can you tell me a little bitabout your experience with
chronic pain?
Well less for me more for ourlisteners.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah well, I just, havesuffered, from some chronic
pain, started around 2010 to 11and, what happened was I had
(03:13):
some kind of injury or, actuallythere really ended up, it looks
like it was a congenital defectin my right hip where my sciatic
nerve runs through.
The muscle in my hip and,sitting, standing, everything
was excruciating and, that ledto one pain medicine after
(03:37):
another and now a muscle relaxerand something for neuropathy
that I had, nerve pain medicine.
It just kind of became aslippery slope.
I'll tell you that what happenedwas I was so desperate, I was so
desperate at the time to findsomeone, anyone that could help
(03:58):
me not just deal with pain, buthow to live differently while
realizing that this was a lifesentence that I, you know,
there's no surgical treatment.
I tried the one and it didn't gowell.
So I had a lot of time on myhands and I started doing a lot
(04:21):
of research about chronic painand especially chronic sciatic
pain.
And there were a couple of paincenters, One in particular was,
in Texas.
and there were also a paincenter in, D.
C.
They had one.
Nothing around in the southeastat all.
Really, there wasn't even painclinics back then, but I knew
(04:44):
that I was desperate for achange.
so this time fast forward, itwas probably 2015, 2016.
when I moved, uh, Weston off tocollege as well, I had some time
and I needed the time to focus.
On how to get better and notjust get through yeah, but how
to get better and one thing thatI found in these, teaching
(05:09):
hospitals that had pain clinicsor pain centers that were
treating this chronic sciaticais they all had Doctors, social
workers, nurse practitioners,pharmacists helping out with
dosing medication.
They had that.
But one in particular thing thatthese few that I found that had
(05:30):
some success was they all had achronic pain psychiatrist on the
team.
So that led me down a road of.
I need to see someone because ifit's working in these, teaching
hospitals and they're using thisto do research, there's
(05:50):
something to this, chronic pain,management and psychiatry that
led me to, my.
I am now still a psychiatristhere in Greenville, Dr.
David Moore, and, I went to Dr.
Moore desperate.
I did not want another painmedicine.
I did not want to add anything.
(06:11):
I wanted to get off of thecouch, out of my house, and live
again.
And so, I just sat down withhim, and there was a few things
that he said immediately thatturned the tide for me.
And it is still, it justabsolutely took me to a
(06:33):
different mode and a way to livewith this pain.
I think a lot of people, whenyou have something like a
chronic pain, there is theinitial of seeing everybody,
getting the diagnosis, now getthe treatment, the surgery.
And then, you know, that thingprolongs five or six years.
(06:53):
And you've done all that, what'snext?
And so I was severely depressed,anxious about everything,
couldn't get out of my car to gointo the grocery store.
I remember sitting many times inthe bilo parking lot and I just
could not get out of the carbecause I had paralyzing anxiety
(07:13):
and the anxiety, I knew therewas a physical reason why I was
anxious.
It was because doing somethingwasn't like a Quick trip to the
grocery store, having to standin line, having to be up.
I knew that it was going to costme a lot of comfort.
And so my anxiety was really ona runaway train.
(07:38):
My anxiety now was not just thefact that I might be cooped in
the house for a few days.
My anxiety now was, okay, if Igo to dinner.
How long am I going to be ableto sit there?
I remember calling around andasking like, what's your seating
situation?
Do you have booths?
I carried around, a pad, like a,memory foam pad to pretty much
(08:01):
everywhere, all football games,and all that.
But what resounded with me withDr.
Moore is he said, That painmedicines are depressants.
So he was not at all surprisedwhen he looked at my med list
that I would be depressed andanxious.
The second thing that he said,Was he said the more pain
(08:23):
medicines like opioids that youtake, the more you take, the
more pain you have, I mean, wow,that's I've heard it from you
before, but every time I justcan't imagine what it must have
been like to live with that andI hate that you had to go
through all that, but you didpersevere and you're a stronger
person for it today.
Absolutely.
(08:44):
I am curious, do you think ifyou would have read this book
before this onset in your life,do you think you would have been
better prepared to deal witheverything?
Absolutely.
I feel like that there'sdefinitely a focus on being
completely pain free.
Mm hmm.
In America.
And, I was looking for that tobe pain free, and I was on a ton
(09:09):
of medicine.
one of the medicines was calledOpana.
It's been pulled by the FDA.
It is the precursor or the thingthat has driven opioid crisis in
the United States of America.
And what we thought was a one toone pain medicine to morphine,
this was three times.
Could be three to eight timesthe amount.
(09:31):
Wow.
So, I was in a stupor, but stillhaving pain., Yeah, I do think,
I think there are so many thingsthat I would change.
Now going back through, I don'tthink I had to lose my job.
I think if I'd had better copingskills and, really took the time
to care for instead of justseeking this thing of how I'm
(09:55):
going to get through this, but.
Realizing I had to go around it,you know, the the shortest
distance was not the leastresistance So, yeah.
Yeah Well, I mean like you'rekind of getting into it and I
kind of mentioned it earlier wehave a culture around pain here
and I think a lot of that comesfrom is the society, and
(10:20):
especially in America, I'm sureother places as well.
We kind of have the illusionthat all discomfort can be
controlled, like you take thisdrug, you do this, you do X, Y,
and Z, and you can control orget rid of your discomfort.
Right.
And then when we do end upexperiencing involuntary pain or
a pain that can't be controlledbecause that's like what you
(10:40):
went through couldn't have beencontrolled.
You needed the right copingskills, like our perceptions and
our attitudes can stall ourpreparedness and dealing with
that if we're not getting aheadof it mentally.
that's why we're covering thisbook is because we want to give
you the skills that you need incase you do deal with great pain
or chronic pain in the future,which, you know, Almost all of
us will face severe pain in thefuture, so it's a good thing for
(11:03):
us to reframe it.
So in terms of reframing it,this book is kind of going into
how pain can actually be abeautiful thing.
Albeit uncomfortable, but it canbe a beautiful thing, which
sounds like almost like a wildstatement.
Yeah.
But it's true.
I mean, think about it.
Our body has this magical systemto alert us to danger.
(11:24):
And if we didn't have it, wherewould that leave us?
And what's so interesting aboutthis book is he's working with
leprosy patients who, in severecases, they don't have the pain
warning signals.
Like, they're completelypainless, and it's the worst
thing ever.
Right, right.
I'm not gonna get into, like,everything that goes into it.
I think a lot of you guys shouldread this book, but, I mean,
(11:44):
when you don't have this naturalwarning system your body self
destructs.
Yeah, basically.
Yeah.
So pain can be a beautifulthing.
I know early on in dr.
Brands practice, he was tryingto make a bionic hand that would
mimic pain sensation because ofthe leprosy folks.
(12:07):
And I don't know what you guysknow about leprosy.
I, I know that, you know, it wasmentioned a lot in scripture in
the Bible and, didn't evenrealize it's still very Very
alive and well, especially inAsia and I think South America,
but yeah, so no pain signals,they don't feel when they get
(12:28):
burnt, you know, they touchsomething.
If it's hot, they can't see it.
And so before they know it,they've.
You know cook their hand orstepped on something with their
feet and then they have aninfection and it just goes so
yes I was surprised to like howmany things pain alerts you to
so without pain like in thesesevere leprosy patients Your
(12:49):
body has no way to alert you toa variety of things like a heart
attack Strep appendicitis strokelike some some stuff that's
everyday things or likeillnesses or colds or whatever
like your body will have No ideabecause they don't have the
capacity to Produce painsignals, I guess.
So that makes you look at painin a different perspective.
And in this book, he's kind ofphrasing it as like the scout of
(13:13):
the real enemy.
It's the gift that nobody wants.
And it's also an instructor ifyou let it be.
Yeah.
So like you were talking aboutpainkillers and how they kind of
send you into a super and theycan create more pain and more.
They're not really solving theproblem.
It's just like a temporary fix.
Painkillers can also help youlike they can make you lose the
power of your inner doctor.
(13:33):
Which is, and your pain signalsare a part of that.
human bodies are designedincredibly beyond any, no one
can fathom how amazing the humanbody is, and pain is just
another aspect of that.
And, I found it reallyinteresting, like,, breaking
down the science of it.
In the book he really gets intothe pain responses that we
physically feel are justtransducers sifting through many
(13:56):
varieties of traumatic constantand repetitive stress signals
that report into the spinalcolumn.
So that's the way the painresponses actually work, which I
didn't know that before, so Ifound it interesting.
But I just really find itintriguing like that this design
was built into our bodies andhow amazing it is.
Like we may not like the resultit gives us because it's an
(14:17):
uncomfortable and Severe feelingbut it has its uses and I think
acknowledging its uses andreframing it will Just
completely change your life.
Yeah, maybe not like now but inthe future when you do have to
deal with pain I think you willyour life would be changed
because you're prepared to copewith it Yeah, and one thing that
(14:38):
he mentioned, that was probablyone of the saddest things about
these folks that have leprosy ordiabetic retinopathy, but
specifically those who do notexperience pain, they also can't
experience touch.
They don't know what it's likefor somebody to comfort them
because they would not feel thatat all.
(15:00):
And so while we have pain, thatis a result of how we feel.
It's also the reason how we canfeel it's why we can feel so we
know if I get sunburnt, I knowto get out of the Sun.
Yeah, and and so on and so forthSo yeah, that's really cool.
Well, not cool, but Parts of itare cool.
(15:23):
Yes This is so inserious, butthe first time I ever heard
about leprosy I think I waswatching the movie Ice Age and
said the sloth was like leprosyReally?
Anyways.
Crazy.
I was raised on TV.
It's fine.
(15:44):
Doubtful.
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so we're going to breakdown into A little sections
here.
And before we really dive intohow we can cope with pain and
understanding a little better,we're going to talk about the
three stages of pain so we canunderstand that.
So first is the pain signal andthis is the alarm that goes off
(16:04):
when nerve endings and theperiphery sense danger.
So danger, danger, danger.
Yes, yes.
And then secondly, that signalthen sends a message and the
message is the second stage.
What happens with that, thespinal cord and the base of the
brain act as a spinal gate tosort out which of the many
millions of signals deserve tobe forwarded as a message to the
(16:29):
brain.
So this is what happens when youhave a lot going on.
Should our bodies, if they workright, they will send the
loudest message to the mostcrucial part of that pain.
I'm just so fascinated by howthat works.
(16:50):
It is.
So the third stage is response.
So this actually takes place inthe higher brain, especially
your cerebral cortex, which isgoing to sort through the pre
screened messages and willdecide on which response to give
based on the Messages it isreceiving.
Pain does not exist in your bodyor your mind until the entire
cycle completes and the thing tonote about the severity of the
(17:14):
pain.
It's going to depend on avariety of things.
Pain is universal, but it's alsosubjective in a sense.
So it's going to depend on yourpersonality.
What's going on like externallyand what's going on in your
brain at the time.
And also, of course, theseverity of the injury is going
to affect the pain.
The pain, but a lot of thisfocus on the book is your
(17:37):
emotional preparedness and thepower of your brain in the mix
of your cultural expectations,which you can shift is going to
actually alter the chemistry ofyour brain, which in turn will
alter your response to pain.
So it's very scientific, butit's also very, I don't want to
say intangible, but because itdeals with your mind so much,
(17:58):
there's all like a science toit, but then again, there's not,
it's almost like a wholemetaphysical level of dealing
with pain.
Yeah.
Do you agree?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I and we'll get into, causethere's certain things that
heighten pain and realizing whatthat is and they're not,
everything can't be controlled,but there are certain things
that we can look at and observeand make small changes to, to
(18:20):
change that whole pathway.
Yeah.
So while we're on that note,we're going to next talk about
the power of your mind withpain.
And.
What I heard in your story isyou went to a psychiatrist and
he helped you kind of shift yourmind with pain and that helped
you cope better.
Would you say that's right?
Yeah, I mean he hit, he helpedme.
Obviously he helped you in amyriad of ways, but.
(18:41):
Right, but those two were thekey.
If those hadn't, if he hadn'thave said those two things.
in the first visit, I probablywouldn't have went back because
I needed answers and he hadthem.
So that started, me down thepathway of trying to get off as
much pain medicine as possible.
and gradually it settled back inwhere, you know, I could bump my
(19:05):
elbow.
And when I was on a lot of,Opiates or pain medicine it
would feel like Lightning isgoing through it.
You could do the same thing andit not even face you.
Yeah, so yeah Definitely.
So in adults who will have alarger pool of experience and
emotions to draw on it makes themind play an even bigger role in
(19:28):
converting our perception ofpain whereas Children,
definitely not the same thing,but your perception of pain can
be the difference between copingversus suffering.
It's just a very big difference.
what takes place in your mind isdefinitely the most important
aspect and.
Like we've been saying, we feellike this is so important
(19:50):
because to prepare us and ourlisteners and anyone who will
hear us out and maybe thinkabout this, is creating your own
pain insurance.
So preparing yourself for futurepain, which I think is really
important and I feel like wetend to procrastinate a lot of
things and this is probably oneof them.
Oh yeah.
But investing in these thingsearly is going to set you up for
(20:13):
success later in your life.
If you're waiting to craft outthis pain insurance and changing
your perception towards painuntil you're actually
experiencing it, it's gonna bereally difficult to do that in
the moment because pain when youfeel it, it tends to demolish
your objectivity and it makes itdifficult to alter your
perceptions and your brainchemistry that has been
solidified at the time of yourinjury.
And now you're trying to dealwith the pain and you're trying
(20:35):
to unwork your brain chemistryand change your perceptions.
So I feel like that gives you anidea of the importance of it.
Being proactive when it comes topain.
Here's some tips of how to trainyour brain and your body's
response to pain.
One of the major tips is thesense of gratitude.
(20:56):
And I remember exactly where Iwas when I started to not feel
numb again.
It was along the same lines ofthe time frame where I was
trying to back off of painmedicine and also feel because I
just wanted to be numb and Idid.
I numbed myself.
For years, because the pain wasso bad.
(21:18):
I remember specifically, we weredoing, we were painting our
house.
We were putting hardy boardsiding on the concrete siding of
the house that had, like, some,pine siding.
And I needed to run and get somemore paint.
And on my way back from gettingthe paint.
(21:38):
I am pulling up to my house andit's still in the distance.
But what I see is my family andcommunity all coming together
and putting the siding on myhouse.
And for the first time in a longtime, I had gratitude.
(21:58):
I was grateful.
And that It's so crucial becauseyou do get hung up with inside
and what's going on andeventually people are going to
stop asking questions unlessthey, have a really, really
close connection with you.
So the gratitude that I feltpulling down my driveway seeing.
(22:22):
My husband, brothers, brother inlaws, my dad, everyone working
together to improve our house.
And they were doing all that forme and Jim.
And so gratitude is a big, bigpart.
And it's not just a thing oflike be more grateful and Your
(22:43):
pain will get better.
There's actually like a sciencebehind this.
So in this book they talk aboutDr.
Hans Selle Selle?
Selle?
Yeah.
Pretty cool doctor, I'm sure,but anyways, he is a pioneer in
the science of emotions and howthey impact your health.
And his research pretty muchsummed up that vengeance and
(23:06):
bitterness as emotionalresponses are the most likely to
produce high stress in humanbeings, and high stress is
linked to poor health.
So there's that.
And conversely, gratitude is thesingle most nourishing response
to health.
And this is after decades of hisresearch.
Wow.
So there is science behind howbeing grateful can impact your
(23:26):
health.
And it's not just like physicalhealth.
I think that's also, it alsogoes.
It's a long ways in terms ofmental health, mental health,
family health, all of it.
Grateful people.
Yes.
Yes.
So he also found that factorssuch as anxiety and depression,
which we've already talkedabout, can trigger attacks of
(23:47):
pain or intensify pain alreadypresent.
people, it's interesting whenyou talk about how pain is or
painkillers are depressants.
I know.
Cool.
So, no wonder we have a bunch ofnumb people walking around.
Yeah, there's a crisis withpainkillers on our streets.
Yes, it is a real issue.
(24:08):
So sad.
Yeah.
Yeah, so,, in that note, he alsofound that people that view pain
as the enemy and tend to adopt avictim complex when they're
experiencing pain or theyrespond with bitterness, that
can make the pain even worse,kind of just like what you were
saying, so.
I think when we do experiencepain, we have to maybe just take
a moment and try to respond withgratitude because your body is
(24:31):
using this language of painbecause that is how it is
designed to get your attention.
So try to think about it in agratitude sense, befriend the
pain, disarm and welcome it.
And it will pass and you'll beable to cope with it better.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gratitude is, the opposite ofvictim and, bitterness.
(24:52):
So they can't coexist at thesame time.
You can't be bitter and gratefulat the same time, and it can be
hard to, just shift into a thingof, into a mindset of gratitude.
Some things I like to do, and Iknow I'm struggling with being
grateful for things around me isto either journal about it, or
I'll just write a list of, like,things I can be immediately
grateful for in that moment.
(25:13):
And I think even if you arefilled with bitterness or you're
having trouble with what's goingon around here, whatever the
heck is going on, you can lookat that list and just
immediately.
It makes me feel better.
Yeah.
And.
Yeah, it's just great.
And we should, uh, maybe do anepisode on in future just on
gratitude.
Yeah.
I like that.
Yes.
(25:33):
All right.
So another tip is to listen toyour pain.
So don't silence it.
Don't try to ignore it.
Strain your ears to hear itbecause your body is trying to
tell you something.
And the majority of the medicalprofession, especially in
America, views pain as anillness and not a symptom
because your body does have abuilt in doctor and listening to
your Your pain can help you hearit, so listen to the pain and
(25:57):
ask yourself questions like isthere a pattern to my pain?
Does it tend to occur at certaintimes?
Does it seem to relate to myjob, to a relationship?
Does eating affect it?
I think the more we tend to tuneinto our pain and try and figure
it out or ask questions aboutit, that can help us get to a
solution, possibly more thanthat.
(26:19):
Medical professionals be able toof course, like medical
professionals have their placeand sometimes you're not going
to be able to just figure it outby listening to your pain.
That's not really what I'msaying.
But I think it has valuableinsights that the medical
profession tends to overlook.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As an ER nurse for many years,my favorite patient has always
(26:39):
been a kidney stone patient.
Because I know exactly what todo to make them feel better and
I would make like a little clockin my head when I would go to
pull somebody back who had Akidney stone.
It was like I had in my mindwithin three minutes.
This pain will go away and Iknew exactly what I needed to do
(27:03):
to make that happen and and andthat is When you look at the
most painful experiences thatpeople address, kidney stone is
right up there with birthing ababy.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
a lot of people nowadays alsospecifically women, migraines
(27:24):
are a big issue too.
And those are the ones that youcan really, if you start looking
at hormonally and where you arein your cycle, a lot of those
are driven by.
Hormones.
Dude, we could do a wholeepisode on like understanding
the stages of your cycle and howit's impacted.
Oh, that is like eye opening,mind blowing.
Oh, yeah.
But anyways, let's go back topain.
(27:45):
Yes, let's go back here.
So, spiritual practices areactually a tip for this pain
insurance.
And even if you're not likenecessarily a religious person,
there are Quote unquotespiritual practices you can
adopt and meditation is a bigone that people from all
religions or no religions useBecause it's a great way to
(28:05):
train your relaxation responsein your body So meditation is an
act of the mind and it triggersphysiological changes in your
body, which would include like agradual lowering of your
respiratory rates changes inyour brave weight Brave brain
wave patterns and a generaldecrease in your sympathetic,
(28:27):
sympathetic.
Wow.
And sympathetic nervous systemactivities.
So in other words, meditation isa great way to train your mind
and your body from going to astate of inner stress, inner
stress to calmness.
And that's a great tool to addto your pain insurance.
(28:47):
Yes.
Yes.
Because if you've only feltanxiety, it's hard to even
conceptualize that there's anypeace.
Yeah.
so yeah.
Yeah.
I need to get back intomeditating.
I had been doing it in collegeand.
It was amazing.
I felt so calm after and thatcalmness would persist for so
(29:09):
long and I think it's a thingwhere you have to do it
consistently to reap thebenefits and I just need to work
it back into my schedule, but itdefinitely is great when you do
it consistently and I think itcan be a great tool in this pain
insurance bag for sure.
Yes, yes.
one of the best things you cando to prepare your pain
insurance is to surroundyourself with a loving
(29:30):
community.
One that will stand by you whentragedy strikes.
But it goes both ways.
you'll be that for them.
So you have like a back andforth relationship, but then
also your friends that love you,they'll celebrate when you're
doing well, and they'll consoleyou when you're not.
(29:51):
I have Still great friend ofmine.
Her name is Helen and I tell herso much Not recently.
I need to just retell her thisbut she probably got tired of
hearing it because I was like Iowe my life to you because She
would not let me not answer myphone.
(30:14):
If she texts me, call me, shegave me space.
Cause she knew I was in a spacethat required a lot of me and
she just did it in a perfectway.
As far as, not Putting stress onme because the last thing I
needed was another thing to dowhen you're sleeping all the
time.
Yeah, she did not overwhelm me.
(30:35):
I never felt guilty But and shewould give me time so she'd
wait, you know, five days,seven, still absent, heard from
me.
The next thing I know she'spulling in my driveway.
She would come over and justlike Come in the house, and how
are you doing?
she went in this community offolks that are gonna help,
(30:58):
you're gonna walk with.
My husband needed help.
He was dealing with all of this.
I just I'm sorry, I just smelleda rancid dog fart.
I know you can't smell, but Itis atrocious.
Is it Josie?
No, it's definitely a Sawyerfart.
(31:19):
Be lucky.
You got a bad sniffer.
I am very grateful for that.
So yeah, this community, justone thing that I would challenge
you to do if you're goingthrough something heavy is even
if you don't think you need Thatfriend at that moment or you
(31:40):
think you have nothing to giveallow that person to help you
because They're also helpingyour community And you know,
both of our kids were in collegeWe didn't want them to be
bothered by this and it endedup, you know, Jim My husband, he
was carrying a lot of that.
My parents were worried andwould check on me, and stuff.
(32:03):
But as far as like, come and getin my face and, you know, bring
me a milkshake or whatever,Helen, really was, uh, that
sense of community with me.
So thank you, Helen.
Helen.
We love you, Helen.
Yes, I love that idea, and Ifeel like a lot of things we
talk about, the importance ofcommunity is just paramount.
(32:27):
It is.
In so many different things.
I think we talked about that intransitions, too.
It's just having the rightcircle, and then also realizing
it's a two way street.
And that, you know, when youhave needs, they'll help you,
and when they have needs, you'llhelp them.
Because we are part of acollective, and we have to help
each other out.
So, the last tip, as far as paininsurance goes, is the power of
(32:50):
distraction.
So, knowing how to distractyourself.
Because we all carry On ournecks is amazing capacity for
pain management, distracting uswith activities, whatever, so
activities divert your mind frompain.
So, whether that's hobbies,work, reading, humor, hobbies,
pets, sports, etc, etc.
(33:10):
They can be great distractorsfrom pain, which can help you
cope with it.
And another thing that he talksabout in this book is that
coping with chronic pain.
Does depend on a patient'swillingness to exercise and
increase productive activitydespite the feeling of pain.
So distraction can maybe be away for you to help increase
that productivity so that you'renot feeling, I guess, useless.
(33:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is that how you felt?
Yes.
You know, eventually you're justexisting.
You're not living.
Yeah.
And, and you're not evenexisting well.
So, and this was something, thispart of coping and, getting that
men are fixers.
So, and then Jim also as anexercise physiologist, so he, of
(33:55):
course, was just trying to fixme, fix me, fix me all the time.
and wouldn't really let me goand do a lot, but our
relationship evolved.
We understood once I was notnumb anymore, because let me
tell you, you cannot communicatewith your community, your loved
ones, if you're numb, that isexisting, it is not living.
(34:19):
that's another, like, I feellike existing versus living is.
It's a lot like coping versussuffering.
Yeah.
Which is what they talk about inthis book.
Yeah.
And the difference between it,like, no matter how severe your
pain is, you can always movefrom a state of coping versus
remaining in suffering.
Right.
I did some research on pain andthis distraction part, they're
using this a lot in dental care.
(34:41):
And so they are allowingpatients now, encouraging them,
bring in your headphones, youknow, listen to a book or listen
to music and it works.
It works.
And so they, they've looked atthis and, been able to like
severely decrease the amount ofanalgesic that they need to use
(35:04):
because of this distractingmechanism.
So I'm here for it.
All right.
Next we're going to move on tointensifiers of pain.
So being aware of this can maybemitigate the effects of this and
make sure that You're moving outof these states in order to not
make your pain worse when you'redealing with it.
And the first one is fear and itis by far the biggest
(35:27):
intensifier of pain inmeasurable physiological ways.
So the most pain I have everbeen in was when I was getting
an IUD put in and I've had thatdone twice and my anxiety and my
fear going into my second timegetting one put in was
Paralyzing.
And I felt like my second timewas by far more painful, but
(35:49):
when I look back on it, I thinkit probably was the fear that
was Amping it up.
Yeah, they're finally puttingit.
I was like Well, and so if youif you see that you're like, if
you can experience pain forinstance Weston your husband he
was not somebody that I couldsay don't touch that.
(36:10):
It's hot He had to he's lookingat me the whole time and he's
just sliding his hand over totouch it Well, if it creates
pain, you know a negativeresponse Chances are you're not
going to want to do that again.
So I think the fear part is whatkeeps us in that pain cycle it's
(36:31):
the fear of the impending pain.
Yeah, definitely And I thinkthat's what it was for me.
Yes Yes, and it's not that youknow Fear is a bad thing because
they talk about also knowing thedifference between good versus
bad fear and how to know when abad Fear might be holding you
back or Amplifying the problemor creating other problems But
The thing to acknowledge is thatpain is unavoidable, but misery
(36:54):
in that living in fear state.
Is optional if we can train ourbrains to overcome it life
Changing words right there Ain'tthat the truth?
Yes All right.
The next one is anger I'm,sorry.
I have a bb our friend.
Her little daughter is obsessedwith the characters from inside
(37:15):
out and she's like joy and angerOh, so adorable So I think in
the United States with how muchwe have going on, even not
today, but.
There's always something goingon, and I think a lot of
external things and societalthings are making this country,
(37:37):
and really, I mean, anywhere,I'm sure, is a fertile ground
for feelings like anger andresentment and frustration, and
those are all cards from thesame deck, and they're, I feel
like they're very easy emotionsto just slip into.
Oh, yeah.
For sure, if you're not beingaware of it.
but in terms of physiologically,if anger is not dealt with in
your mind or if you'reconstantly angry and unable to
(38:00):
get past that, it will actuallyrelease the poison into the body
and it'll affect your health.
And I'm sure if you're dealingwith chronic pain and you're
really angry about it, you'relike, why is this happening to
me?
It's so unfair.
I'm so angry.
That's just going to make itworse.
Yeah.
And it sucks.
Like, yeah, I'm just, it's easyto fall into the victim complex,
(38:21):
but when we can move past thatand we can move past our anger
and let go of it, then we canmove into more of a gratitude
state because I don't thinkanger and gratitude go together
at all.
Like it's either one or theother.
Yeah, for sure.
The other intense fire of painand this is probably one of the
biggest ones for me when I wasgoing through this was guilt.
(38:43):
I felt guilty about everything.
you know, I felt guilty that my,my kids, I feel like they grew
up, had to grow up too fast.
I felt guilty because our wholefamily was very active and all
of a sudden, um, Vacationstopped, you know, the hiking,
the biking, all that, it juststopped.
And, while I would encouragethem to go and do, and
(39:07):
occasionally they would, theguys in my home were, they
wanted to be with me.
More than doing the activity andI knew that was coming from a
place of genuine love.
I was not able to receive thatas genuine love because of anger
and then that guilt of not beingable to do what I used to do.
(39:32):
Yeah, I can't imagine.
I think that's a very normalresponse.
Yeah, I was guilty.
I felt guilty because I couldn'tgo to the grocery store.
I felt guilty because I hatecooking.
I still hate cooking, but Idon't feel guilty about it
anymore.
Um, see, there's freedom.
I'm free! I'm free! so I justfelt guilty about everything and
(39:56):
what ends up happening or whatended up happening with me is
the very things that I feltguilty about.
I ended up resenting.
So now I'm at the point, youknow, I've come through this.
I'm still guilty.
I still feel a lot of guilt.
Well, if that is not channeledand turned around.
(40:17):
Then it's not that you feelguilty because you couldn't do
the activity.
Now you feel guilty because youdon't treat the person that asks
you to do the activity the same.
You start to resent them.
Mm.
It's just like the whole fearthing.
Yeah.
The fear of pain.
If you've, if you experienced itone time, like with you in the
IUD, you are, you had no ideawhat to expect the first time.
(40:38):
Yeah.
But the second time you did.
Yeah.
That made it so much worse.
and, and it made it worse.
and same thing, I feel like withthis, this guilt.
Yeah.
it is a slippery slope.
Mm-hmm Guilt.
does not produce anythingworthwhile.
I think as women, it's so hardfor us to forgive ourselves and
(40:59):
it's so much easier for us toforgive others.
And this may not just be a womanthing.
I'm sure it's probably a humanthing, but I think maybe
especially for women.
But anyways, self forgiveness isnecessary self care, especially
when you're feeling guilty aboutsomething that's out of your
control.
I think you still have toforgive yourself for like
feeling guilty and anything elsethat comes along with that and
(41:21):
be able to move past it,obviously, you know, harder,
harder done than said.
Yeah, yeah.
But definitely, and what'sinteresting about this book when
they're talking about Gil isthey, they bring in a lot of
stories about, Other doctors andchronic pain centers and they
kind of connect all that to themessage they're sending and they
(41:42):
say that many counselors atchronic pain centers Report that
their most challenging most painridden Patients are the ones
with the most deep rootedfeelings of guilt So that really
shows you that guilt can't be anintensifier of pain right and
that we have to let go of itSomehow it may not be easy and
it may not be fast, but we gottado it And the forgiveness is,
(42:05):
first you have to forgiveyourself.
So, most times the hardestforgiveness to give.
Yes, yes.
Which is terrible, but it'strue.
Yeah.
so the next one is loneliness.
And this kind of comes in thesame package of pain as it's
something that.
You know, it's universal.
It's also very subjective andthey're both things that we all
experience, but they can'treally be shared necessarily So
(42:29):
I think the big message behindthis is you know loneliness is
an obvious intensifier of painif you're feeling very isolated
then I think it can be easier toexperience other intensifiers of
pain and you know, It just showsthe how important it is for us
to come together and pain andloneliness are central of what
it means to be a human being andthere's others that understand
(42:50):
it so deeply.
So if we're really trying tocome together and build our
community and have our villageand all that, I think that just
requires an understanding ofloneliness.
And, you know, Understandingthat we have the capacity to
prevent loneliness.
Yes, and I did not explain thatat all.
Well When I think aboutloneliness and pain I think
(43:13):
about you Sleep a lot becauseyou're taking pain medicine.
When you're awake, you feelguilty, anger, lonely.
So those are feelings that youdon't want.
So let's just take more painmedicine.
Yeah, or let's add a couple ofdrinks to that and you know,
somebody on the other side ofthis is dealing, I know, with
(43:36):
with some kind of addictionissue and it is a physiological
This is the no one goes to bedat night.
And says, tomorrow, I want to bean alcoholic.
Tomorrow, I'm going to behomeless.
(43:56):
No one intends for that tohappen.
But it does happen.
And this part about theloneliness can really keep you
numb.
you will search to quiet that inyour mind because however that
looks like, there's a lot ofpeople that are in a group of a
(44:17):
lot of people, but they're stilllonely.
Other people are lonely becausethere's no one around.
it looks different.
It looks very different, but theside effect.
It's the same.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yes, absolutely So helplessnessis our last intensifier of pain
And I think any person any humanbeing wants to feel like they
(44:41):
have a place and that they'reneeded And that's just a very
natural human thing Human desireand then suffering people and
I'm sure you can relate to thisfrom when you went through a
chronic pain period is Youwanted to feel like you were
needed you didn't want to feeluseless like you're talking
about like you didn't want tojust exist yeah stuff like that
and they talk about for someonethat experiences chronic pain or
(45:06):
you know is limited by pain isto seek the balance of Offering
help and offering too much help.
So being realistic about whatyou're capable of And then
seeking ways that you can, youknow, make your way and find
your place in the in between.
Yeah.
With that helplessness, if youare, if you're dealing with
(45:27):
something, you know, it is sotraumatic for everybody
involved.
I would just challenge you, findsomething that that friend or
sister or cousin or co worker,find something that you know
they're good at and ask them tohelp you with it.
And, and it does need to besmall.
(45:48):
Yeah, it just depends.
Like if you, if you havesomebody that you're still going
to work, they're working eighthours a day.
That's a, that's a different, ofcourse you can ask more work
related stuff.
the person that's been at homewho's lost their job and you
know, the pleasures of life or,or whatever.
It wasn't like I lost them.
(46:09):
I bent my knee to it.
I did dream job, best job ever.
Would still love to be doing it,but um It does change who you
are.
So finding something reallysimple So if you were thinking
right now, my mom has chronicmigraines For instance mine
(46:32):
doesn't but I'm just saying ifyou're saying my mom has chronic
migraines How can I help her?
Well one way would be to supporther in this phase of
helplessness by saying, youknow, she could maybe read a
book to the, the kids, thegrandchildren, just simple
(46:54):
things that we take for granted,but it's like, if somebody asked
you to do it, it does.
It creates a positive, likerefreshing.
Yes.
Yeah.
And it just takes that momentumand shifts it in a way where
now, You're outside ofyourselves.
Yeah.
I think one of the best thingsthat we can do when we are,
(47:16):
depressed is to go servesomebody, go to the food.
It's the hardest thing to do,but it will be very effective.
Yes.
and you will come home with adifferent outlook and a
different attitude.
I would say nine times out of10.
Yeah, for sure.
I agree.
And then the book they talkabout again, the chronic pain
(47:37):
centers or clinics, the onesthat, assign and encourage tasks
to their patients actually seereduced need for pain medication
and sleeping pills?
Oh, yeah.
So, there you go.
Yeah.
Alright, we're gonna do what shesaid, or in this case, what he
said, because we're just gonnado a quote from the man himself.
The doctor that inspired thisbook, Dr.
(47:57):
Paul Brand.
So, I'm going to have Ronnieread this quote.
His quote is, Pain is apriceless essential gift, of
that I have no doubt, and yetonly by learning to master pain
can we keep it from masteringus.
So, pain can be seen as a gift,in the fact that it does send
(48:20):
signals.
That say this is danger aheadand it'll take work to get your
brain to view it that way Yes,so practice now if you aren't
someone that experiences chronicpain create that pain insurance
Try it out.
Yes, at least see how it goesfor you I I definitely think
there's some valuable insightsfrom this book, which is
obviously why we're covering itYeah, and I recommend anyone
(48:43):
that was interested by this orwants to learn more definitely
read this book Yeah, really goodand it is a religious book to
preface that we didn't includeall the religious stuff in it
Because we don't really want tocenter our podcast on that.
So just be aware.
If that's something you want toread, you don't have to.
But there is some very valuablescientific evidence in there.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
for this week's challenge We aregoing to for a week straight
(49:06):
seven days.
We're gonna end the day So weand Ronnie are gonna do it where
we tell each other Yeah, everyday at the end of the day five
things that we're grateful forAnd we're gonna see how that
makes us feel at the end of theweek.
I'm sure it'll make us feelgreat And and with very little
repeats so you can't say thesame five things I'm thankful
for free dogs and my husband andmy best friend.
(49:29):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah Um, really, you know thefirst couple of days is probably
going to be easy.
Yeah, but then As you reallydrill down in there, you're, I
know that you're going todiscover something that you've
taken for granted for a verylong time and just reframing
that in your mind is a part of ahealing process to pay
insurance.
(49:49):
So yeah, whether you want towrite it down, tell your
partner.
Do it with a friend, text eachother about it.
We want to challenge you guys todo that with us.
So write down, tell somebodyfive things you're grateful for
at the end of every day forseven days straight.
And we want to hear from youguys.
So if you do that and youthought it really had amazing
(50:10):
benefits just in a week, let usknow and you can let us know the
things you're grateful for.
Cause we want to sharepositivity.
We want to hear positivity fromyou guys.
Yeah.
Well.
Well, that's the end of thisepisode.
Thank you guys so much forjoining us again.
We have some, fun things comingup in the next couple of weeks.
thank you so much for listening.
We're so happy you joined us andwe'd really love it while you're
(50:33):
here.
Take the time to leave us areview, you know.
If you're watching on YouTube,you know, do your part.
Leave a heart.
Leave us a comment.
We love it.
It makes us so, so happy and italso helps us build this
business so we can reach morepeople.
So, thank you, thank you.
We really appreciate every oneof you.
Thank you and goodbye!
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