June 10, 2025 • 55 mins
We’re getting generationally juicy in today’s episode, diving into the emotional battleground of "just tough it out" versus "just go to therapy." For so many women—especially from older generations—resilience meant silence, and strength looked like pushing pain down and powering through. But as the tides shift, younger generations are raising eyebrows at the whole “grin and bear it” model, asking instead: what if healing is the real strength. We explore how each of us was raised to (or not to) process hard emotions, the mental health stigmas we’ve had to unravel, and the difference between emotional suppression and emotional endurance. From stoicism and stress to burnout and breakthroughs, this episode takes a compassionate, honest look at how generational mindsets around therapy, self-awareness, and vulnerability are changing—and why that matters. Whether you’ve ever asked yourself “Am I just being dramatic?” or “Why is it so hard to ask for help?”—this one’s for you. Bring your tissues and your inner child, because we’re not toughing it out anymore. We’re talking it out.
- Join the conversation: Was there a stigma around mental health and seeking professional health in your generation? How did your weekly challenge go? Share your reflections in the comments or via our social media @generationalteapod
- What She Said: "You can’t stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.” - Jon Kabat-Zinn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Who's in the Criminal mindsthing?
Matt Sarason, the guy fromFriday Night Lights, the actor,
I don't know his name, but he'sin it.
Oh my goodness.
That's another one too.
If anybody has, I could too Overand over and over.
Love that show for one reason inparticular.
Oh, for sure.
(00:32):
The eye candy is on point.
Oh my God.
It's just the head coach.
No one else I'm attracted to.
I know is him.
He is the man.
Yeah.
That's what we'd be doing on ourdays off.
Just like we were talking aboutserial killers and different
things like that, I think truecrime, we are gonna talk about,
(00:57):
therapy and whether or not we'regonna tough it out or go to
therapy and what some of thestigmas are around therapy,
especially maybe in the Biblebelt.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I think this is a greatgenerational topic, and I think
my generation has shifted moretowards being open to therapy
(01:19):
and emotional self-growth moreso than yours because mm-hmm.
Have you ever heard of.
Back in my day, we didn't havetime to feel we were too busy.
But yeah, this, this topic mightruffle some feathers, just like
our last one, but I guessmm-hmm.
That's how every generationaltopic is gonna be.
(01:40):
Oh yeah.
But yeah, like Ronnie said,we're just gonna talk about the
generational gap between theidea of like pushing through it
versus girl go to therapy,please.
Yes, yes, yes.
And this brings front and centerthis question.
Am I weak for needing helpversus is this just life being
hard?
Which is a question I've askedmyself many, many times.
(02:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what we're gonna do, we'regonna kind of get into some of
the coping skills and, culturalconditioning, like we said
before, generationaldifferences, of course.
Therapy and healing middleground.
So.
Really, really a lot out there.
So let's just dig in.
(02:22):
Well, before we dive in.
Oh, welcome to Generational tea.
We all, we just get too ahead ofourselves.
Yes, we do.
Too.
Excited?
Yes.
Well, I am Cana and this isRonnie and we are so glad you
guys have tuned in to us today.
Um, yeah, so the Tough It Outera, it's very, much what I
(02:44):
lived in.
Mm-hmm.
It's not as much what I did, butit's how I saw my mom's
generation deal with stuff.
And I feel like your generationwas almost like the bridge to my
generation getting worse.
It.
Yeah, I, I do.
So You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Thanks.
(03:04):
Setting us up for success.
I appreciate Exactly.
Well, yeah.
Can you share any likeperspective or maybe experiences
you have, regarding this?
'cause you did kind of grow upin the grin and Barrett
generation.
Yeah.
And that was kind of yourparents' mentality, if you agree
with that.
Yes, yes.
So how do you think thataffected you growing up?
(03:26):
Oh my gosh.
Knocked in.
It was in the most incrediblydysfunctional way.
It was, very hard because youhad hurt people who were hurting
people.
You had generations passing downbefore them to my parents'
(03:50):
generation.
So it was just kind of like eachtime it almost got a little bit
worse.
Like this is in your head.
Especially being in the Biblebelt, this is something that I
have recognized in a lot ofpeople my mom's age and such is,
toughing it out was especiallylike in a husband and wife team,
(04:13):
toughing it out.
The women that toughed it outreally and truly have the
thinking of, I'm gonna berewarded in heaven because I've
toughed this out.
Almost like a rite of passageand almost like, it almost
elevated the trauma because theysaw it as, I'm gonna stay with
(04:35):
this and I'm gonna tough it outbecause.
That's what God wants me to do.
That's what my church says todo.
Women are supposed to be silent,so I can't imagine their
generation and what they had todo.
And I really do feel like they,in my case, people did the best
they had with what they knew.
Yeah.
But the problem was, eventuallyin order to grow and change and
(04:58):
change the generation that youpass down, you have to go
through, some realizations thatmaybe what you've been taught is
not, and so that's a crisis ofbelief right there.
Mm-hmm.
And, I feel like that thegenerations, like I said right
before us, it, it was really,really like, oh, I'm gonna stick
(05:21):
this out because there'll becrams in heaven for this.
That's how people stayed.
I believe, like, especially inmy.
Bible belt area.
That's why people stayedtogether.
Yeah.
It wasn't, I was gonna say,like, I, I think maybe you
suffered this worse than maybeanywhere else in just the United
States because Yes, I think, uh,there's a theme with people of
(05:45):
a, like really any faith, butespecially Christianity in the
South, like even my mom, who isvery devout, doesn't really, I
guess, believe in therapy andshe kind of thinks a lot of the
same things.
And I do think that's based offof what the older generation
taught her and she clings to herfaith and says like, this has to
be enough for me.
And it's like the same thing yousaid, like, I'll get a crown in
(06:07):
heaven for being so strong andhandling this by myself.
Right.
But I hate that for her.
Yes.
Because I think she could be ina better place mentally than she
is.
But that's very, very insightfulto all the things you just said.
Yeah, so, um, we'll we can talka little bit more specifics
later, but I do believe, andhere's the thing, as much as I
(06:30):
want that generation to changefor the better at this point,
it's not going to, unless thereis a major something that
happens.
So I think, you know, it's justgeneration layered after
generation of people who havenot dealt with issues, who have
continued to stuff them downand, you know, kind of step out
(06:54):
of the game in some senses.
Like, yeah, I can't do anythingabout that, so I'm just gonna
ignore it.
And that's another big thingthat I grew up with.
If you don't talk about it, itdoes not exist.
That is huge.
Yeah.
That is.
Yes.
That's definitely common themewith the tough out era.
(07:14):
Yes, yes, yes.
I know it was very lonely forthese ladies.
Mm-hmm.
It was lonely because they feltthe pressure to keep some
persona around other family,around church friends, you know?
And it was almost like, yeah, itwas like the big, dirty secret.
(07:36):
And I feel like every family hadone of those.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Whether, whether it wasaddiction, whether it was abuse,
whether it was neglect,whatever.
I feel like every family, everyhousehold, just like we know
everyone is dealing with theirown stuff, I feel like every
(07:58):
household that I know of,people.
There was dysfunction.
Mm-hmm.
But it was never talked about.
And if you don't talk about it,then you don't have to deal with
it.
And then also the, the secretit, you know, we know that
there's, there's no power insecrecy.
Yeah.
Until you're able to walk it outand take off the blinders and be
(08:19):
real with yourself.
There's no growth.
You can't have growth if you'rehiding things.
Yeah.
And also secrecy breeds shame,which Oh, has a lot of
detrimental effects over time.
Right, right.
And I do believe that thesewomen, were like, well, if I
just did better, he'd be happy.
(08:39):
Or if I just did better, youknow, maybe he won't do this
again.
Or every time it's like, it'sthe last time, this is the last
time it's gonna happen.
So then you have children ofthat family that have no idea
what to do with whatever, andare terrified to talk about it.
At all.
(09:00):
And then you have, you may havetwo or three siblings, or your
case three.
So then you have all of thosepeople in this household that
are all trying to deal by notdealing.
So, you know, it's kind of likeif your parents don't talk about
certain things as a child,Children have an amazing way to
(09:24):
make everything their fault.
Yeah.
And it's it, and, and, and I,and I believe that its, you have
to be talked out of that.
You have to have therapy to getout of that.
Yeah.
So you've got this justdysfunction and, the secrecy and
the shame.
And then you had almost like thedouble standard, what happened
(09:47):
at home never happened inpublic.
So as children, you're stilltrying to figure out, well, how
to blame yourself.
How to blame yourself.
Like, I didn't clean up wellenough or, you know, maybe I
stayed out too late I may nothave gotten punished for it.
And this is just an example,not, not a personal thing, but
(10:07):
if I stayed out late, the personthat was, that dealt with that
the next morning was not theman, it was the woman.
Because again, she feels likeshe's gotta somehow manage the,
the expectation and the influxof ideas and coping skills and
stuff like that.
So it, no one does this, no onedoes this because they want to.
(10:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just, it just happens.
And you know, I know a lot ofpeople that have in that
generation that have kind of,moved past that, and had great
conversations with theirchildren.
And really, that's a huge thing.
So if you're listening to thisand maybe you didn't handle
certain things, it, you know, weas children, we know you're not
(10:53):
a hundred percent responsible,because we felt a part of that
responsibility and just a, a, atalk of saying, this was not
your fault.
You did not cause this.
I was not strong the, you know,or I, I didn't have the power.
I didn't have the means to tryfor a separation or get help.
(11:16):
So on and on it goes.
This is really interesting.
Like I've, I've always knownthat was a theme in older
generations, but I've neverreally had a conversation with
like my parents or like anyoneolder than a millennial about
this.
So hearing your insights,especially as someone that grows
up in the south, is.
Really enlightening and also assomeone that grew up in the
(11:37):
technological era and also theera of therapy and all that
stuff and having access to thesetypes of tools and it being more
normalized than it was for youguys.
Yeah, like I know the benefitsthat it's had on me and I
honestly can't imagine where Iwould be without like therapy,
without honestly like socialmedia.
'cause I tend to consume a lotof stuff that's more like
(11:58):
therapy talk or whatever it is,self-help stuff on social media
and like hearing people sharetheir stories on social media
and like what helps them andlike their emotional growth.
Like I've learned from that.
And so I'm just thinking aboutgenerations before me that never
had that.
And then they were also fightingthis stigma of you have to be
(12:19):
strong.
You don't need you.
Like if you ask for help, you'reweak.
Whatever it is, it's right.
It makes me really sad.
So definitely shout out toeveryone that didn't grow up
like I did because.
I can't imagine how hard thatmust have been and how
conflicting it must have felt tofeel like you were maybe losing
your mind or you're just lost orwhatever it is.
(12:41):
And you were afraid to ask forhelp because there's a stigma
around it.
Yeah.
Just shout out to all you womenwho powered through that and
wherever you got to today, youdid the best with what you had.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like you were just saying, didthis really happen or am I, did
I make this up?
If you see things and youinternalize them, but no one
(13:02):
else appears to have seen themor it happened to them because
the shame also it, it breakscommunication within the family.
Mm-hmm.
So you have siblings that livein the same house, but never
talk about the issue.
Never.
Yeah.
Never brought up, never.
I'm talking never.
Yeah.
So that part about what you saidabout, I kind of second guessing
(13:27):
yourself all the time.
I, I still deal with that.
Mm-hmm.
I still, that whole impostersyndrome thing I still deal
with, you know, I still dealwith that.
Yeah.
Because, you know, you, talkyourself out of what's really
going on in order to make it,pretty and to make it nice and
neat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, well, you got this girl.
(13:49):
You've come so far.
You have been to therapy.
You're doing it so many times.
Well, it's, it's definitely,it's not a onetime use kind of
situation.
Right, right, right.
But yes.
Well, if anyone that's probablylike older than a millennial, do
any of these phrases soundfamiliar?
Don't air your dirty laundry.
What happens in this house staysin this house.
(14:11):
So, like you were talking aboutmm-hmm.
Silencing and secrecy.
Yeah.
And crying won't solve anything.
Um, no, sir.
Crying is actually a greatrelease for your parasympathetic
nervous system.
Yes.
You, you should do it becauseit'll a hundred percent make you
feel better.
Yeah.
Crying and it makes your skinfeel good.
If you ever had like a reallygood cry, it just cleanses your
(14:33):
skin.
Or you just take like a threehour bomb nap after.
Yes.
I know.
You're so exhausted after it.
Yes, it's true.
It's true.
So let's talk about where someof these things come from and
where they spill into.
So, like we said earlier, thereis a cultural theme to this idea
of toughing it out and mm-hmm.
(14:54):
A lot of these things we stillsee today.
So I'm not gonna spend a ton oftime on this, this first one
because I am not a black woman,so I cannot give my.
Personal expertise on it.
But I have heard, and I do havea lot of African American
friends that have shared howthis trope has negatively
affected them, and that's thestrong black woman trope.
I'm sure a lot of people haveheard of it.
A lot of other things, and maybethis will sound familiar to you,
(15:17):
Ronnie, is that idea of southernstoicism.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sound familiar?
Mm-hmm.
I think that relates to a lot ofwhat you just talked about.
Yeah.
And also gendered expectationsof silence and strength.
And I do think this is verypervasive to men in particular.
I think especially like in mygenerations, it's become a lot
easier for women to talk aboutthings and not be afraid to
(15:42):
speak out and know what strengthreally is.
But I do think this is an issuethat men still struggled with.
And I think a lot of this comesfrom like this idea of toxic
masculinity and this idea thatthey need to be X, Y, and Z.
And if they do any of thesethings, they're like feminine or
they're not strong or whatever.
Right.
They're a real man, which isright bs, but it's a thing that
(16:03):
happens.
Yeah.
I mean, you can, you can be a,quote unquote real man and be
miserable because you're notreally dealing with the stuff.
Now, my kids, I didn't do a lotright.
But this is one thing I did, I,I opened up like discussion for
(16:23):
emotional things.
Jim and I were, we were notpeople that saved things until a
later date or like shut downarguments and handle them
outside.
There are some arguments thatyou should never have in front
of your kids, but there's otherthings that are everyday stuff
(16:44):
that happens that if you see theargument, but you never see the
makeup everything iscatastrophized.
Mm-hmm.
They, they're having anargument, they're gonna get a
divorce, I'm gonna be, you know,split up.
I mean, it just plays in yourhead so well as someone that,
overheard a lot of arguments andnever saw the making up.
(17:06):
Yeah.
It messed me up.
So, yeah, you definitely didthat.
Right?
And you also, I mean, youdefinitely did like.
I think you guys raised Westonand Garrett on the right idea of
being a man because my husbandis not ashamed to communicate
with me.
Mm-hmm.
He's not ashamed to share howhe's feeling.
He's not ashamed to cry.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's a testament to howyou raised him, which is Yeah.
(17:29):
The right way.
Yeah, so we would, I mean, likewe might have a discussion and
then if it's something that itcan't be handled right, then I,
we would come back to them andsay, Hey guys, I, I messed up.
This is what I own in theargument.
This is how we came to, anagreement and these are the next
(17:50):
steps in order to hopefully notallow that to happen.
Those things mean so much to akid.
The comfort and the security ofjust that you can have nothing.
You could live in a cabin deepin the woods.
you know, completely off thegrid be dirt poor.
(18:10):
But if you have somebody in yourlife, if you have that role
model, you can overcomeanything.
I feel like if you know how toresolve tensions, how to
communicate what those tensionswere, maybe where they came
from, what you own about it asthe parent and both parents
(18:31):
can't just be one always doingit.
And then how to move forward,past it.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, let's talk a little bitbriefly about the positives
about this type of era.
Yes.
Because we can't just rag on itcompletely because Yes.
One thing I think it doespromote is resilience, AKA grit,
and this idea of like stayingcalm in the chaos, which are all
(18:53):
great virtues to have, but Ithink the ultimate idea is that
we're building these things, butwe're also seeking help when we
need it.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's the generaltheme.
But I do think that this idea ofhaving grit and resilience
through Yes, all of life'scraziness and what it can throw
at you, it did help promotethat, which is great.
But also on the negative side, alot of things you talked about
(19:18):
emotional suppression, healthissues.
Because when we're suppressingour emotions, guess what happens
over years and years and years?
They get stored in our body andthat causes you to have health
issues.
Mm-hmm.
And they start to manifestphysically instead of
emotionally.
Mm-hmm.
And that is not good.
Mm-hmm.
And we also have that sneakylittle friend called repressed
trauma because if you're justsilent and you never talk about
(19:39):
it, it's just gonna stay there.
Yeah.
It's not gonna get outta yourbody.
And that's what we want.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Toughing it out is great moralof the story until you're crying
into a Costco rotisserie chickenand calling it girl, girl
dinner.
That's true.
That is so true.
So Cana, let's talk abouttherapy being not weakness, but
(20:04):
a strategy.
Yeah.
Well, I, I did already kind ofsay like I am very appreciative
of the generation that I grew upin and how it was just more open
to talk about things.
I will say I kind of did get alittle bit of the former because
like I said, my mom is not abeliever in therapy and I think
(20:25):
she definitely internalized thetough it out era in some of the
worst ways and mm-hmm.
I mean, I do think my, myparents did the best job with
what they could, and yeah, frommy understanding they did a heck
of a lot better than theirparents did.
So I'm very thankful to them.
But I also think that some of mymom's beliefs and my parents
never really seeking therapy.
(20:46):
I just remember growing up and Ididn't really think that they
were happy and.
Just watching them like sufferthrough it, I guess, instead of
seeking help, kind of made meinternalized to do the same.
Mm-hmm.
So I didn't actually go totherapy until I was in college
and I felt like I was desperateat that point.
Mm-hmm.
Which is not what you want.
Therapy is like preventativemaintenance.
(21:07):
It's not go when you're likehanging on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What happened?
And I, I felt weak for going totherapy.
Like, I didn't like the way itmade me feel just like thinking
about going.
I think that's'cause of thebeliefs that I internalized, but
I am still glad I did because itwas a great experience for me.
(21:28):
I realized how helpful it wasand I feel like that was finally
the shift I had into, okay, Ineed help.
I'm not okay.
And then here I am a few, fewyears later, I am nowhere near
emotionally whole, I'm workingtowards it and I'm very thankful
to have the resources and thingsthat are normalized that I need.
Yeah.
(21:49):
Yeah.
I'm very, very thankful thatthere's open conversations about
mental health now, about havingboundaries, about healing your
inner child and getting yourtrauma out.
Yeah.
All of that is so great and I'mthankful that we're here and I
hope we can build on thatbecause I do think that like for
in the, in the South, I thinkit's moving a little bit slower
(22:10):
because of a lot of the thingsyou talked about and we both
kind of agreed.
It's the tough it out mindsettends to be a little bit worse
there, so mm-hmm.
I hope we can build on that forall generations, wherever you
live, all that.
I think the idea of likebreaking generational curses
became really prevalent and likethe millennial, gen Z, my
generation, and I think that'sgreat and I just, I love where
(22:33):
this is heading, but I thinkthat, like I said earlier, it's
a balance of both, like focusingon being resilient and having
gr, but also knowing when youneed help, recognizing we need
help and being able to seek itwithout feeling shame or feeling
like you're weak.
All that stuff.
Right.
Yeah.
Love that.
So let's talk about some signsthat toughing it out just isn't
(22:56):
working.
So if you're experiencing a lotof these frequently, that may be
a sign that you do need to seekhelp, so, mm-hmm.
Chronic anxiety, guilty sleepissues, also guilty,
irritability, guilty.
Applying currently in therapywith an awesome other signs,
(23:22):
feeling stuck, disinterested,emotionally numb.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Guilty.
Yeah.
Or maybe you can't stop doomscrolling on social media or
every relationship you justspiral and it never works out.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Those are signs that maybe youneed to heal something within
you and you need to grow.
(23:42):
And it's okay if you don't thinkyou can handle it by yourself
and.
Honestly, you might not be ableto if it's a theme you've had
your whole life.
Right.
And you need to seek help.
Um, that's interesting aboutthe, doom scrolling because,
through social media, people usethat as an escape to not deal
with reality.
(24:03):
Yeah.
So we're not saying that socialmedia is bad for you, but if you
are finding yourself, likechecking out a little bit and
just scrolling and, you know,while the TV's on, maybe every
other people are there, butyou're just scrolling'cause you
don't want to, you know, it'sjust a coping me mechanism.
It is, for sure.
Yeah.
(24:23):
It's definitely a good indicatorfor myself on like, when I need
to look inwards.
If I'm always like doomscrolling on social media.
Mm-hmm.
Or whenever I like, feel a toughemotion or whatever I like, tend
to dissociate from my body andjust like go emotionally numb.
So that's been a good indicatorfor me too.
Mm-hmm.
That it's not working.
(24:45):
I need help.
Right, right.
So let's talk about what therapyactually is.
Well, what it's not is laying ona couch talking about your mom
unless you have mommy issues orwhatever.
It's definitely not that.
Um, if you do, it's okay becauseI It's okay.
Yeah, exactly.
It's totally okay.
It helps you develop things liketools, patterns, boundaries,
(25:10):
self-regulation, healing, oldwounds to go forward.
yeah.
I think, well in my therapyexperience, yeah.
Just like saying things out loudhas helped me make realizations.
Even it's something that like, Iknow intrinsically, but like
I've never said out loud, whereI've never like really
(25:30):
confronted it verbally with likeanother person.
Mm-hmm.
Just saying them out loud hasbeen like.
Like a switch goes on in mymind, and then I'm just like,
wow.
Right.
Silence does not work.
You have to say things andthat'll jumpstart you to go on
your healing journey.
Right, right.
And that's why women need, Imean, community men do too.
(25:51):
That's why we all needcommunity.
Mm-hmm.
Because I, I mean, I feel likethis podcast has been a
therapist to me because sayingthings out loud is like, oh, I
haven't really dealt with that.
And we'll get into it a littlebit later, but some of, some of
your issues are gonna be fluid.
They're gonna wax and wane anddifferent things may come up
(26:13):
based on what your experience isat that time.
Mm.
So don't be so hard on yourself.
Yeah.
And don't think that, you know,well, I tried therapy.
It didn't work.
You tried it once, maybe twice.
Give it another.
Thought.
Yeah, because, yeah, I, my firsttherapist that I worked with, I
don't think it was a good fit,so I never really got into deep
issues because I wasn'tcomfortable.
(26:35):
Yeah.
But I had another therapist alittle bit later and it was like
a game changer.
Mm-hmm.
I just felt like we clicked.
It was so much easier for me tojust like spill my guts to her.
Yeah.
So it's definitely a matter offinding the right therapist.
Right.
Also, let's talk about somedifferent kinds of therapies
because it's not all justone-on-one.
So if that makes youuncomfortable, like there's so
(26:55):
many options, whether that isjust traditional talk therapy
one-on-one.
Mm-hmm.
You can do group therapy.
Life coaching in some instancescan also serve as a form of
therapy.
CBT, which is cognitivebehavioral therapy, I know is a
really popular one.
I have been hearing a lot aboutsomatic therapy.
So for people like me that tendto like intellectualize their
(27:18):
emotions, somatic therapy isfocused on like.
Understanding and feeling versusintellectualizing and talking
about it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So I've seen that one a lot.
Another therapy that's beenpopular for people that have
trauma or really distressingexperiences they had process is
EMDR.
So it's eye movement,desensitization and reprocessing
(27:40):
therapy.
So it's a mouthful.
I don't know that much about it,but if it sounds like something
you could benefit from, you candefinitely look it up and find
out more.
And there's therapists with, Ithink, specific certifications
to do.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Like these specialized forms oftherapy.
Mm-hmm.
another thing I did in the past,it's kind of a different form of
therapy.
Well, I mean it's still therapy,but different options.
(28:01):
Is this app called Better Help?
And it was like really cheap forme.
Uh huh And you can, you can dolike a phone call with a
therapist.
You can chat with them.
So if you don't feelcomfortable, like talking on the
phone to a therapist or you cando a video call.
So if you're not comfortablewith like traditional therapy
face-to-face, there's otheroptions for you to still be able
(28:22):
to access all the benefits withtherapy, but within a space that
you're comfortable in.
Yeah, that's the key.
Finding something that you'recomfortable in and if you need
to switch therapists, don'tworry.
It's not personal and I dobelieve that they don't take it
personally either, so No, Idon't think so.
You're right.
(28:42):
If they do, they're probably nota good therapist.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
So one of the biggest myths isyou don't have to be falling
apart to go to therapy.
So you may be in a good spaceright now.
But maybe you look back in thepast and you're like, Hmm, I
wish I'd handled thatdifferently.
(29:04):
You know, I got through it.
Or just to release negativeemotions, things that you
probably haven't even thoughtabout in years sometimes can
happen.
And they are truly educated andhave been trained on how to ask
the right questions to get to,you know, the other layers of
(29:25):
the onion to go deeper mm-hmm.
Into it.
So, yeah.
All right.
Well now that we've talked aboutkind of both sides and both
generations and both outlooks,let's kind of talk about the
nuance of the InBetween.
So being strong and also seekingsupport.
We're gonna say it louder forthe people in the back journal.
And you can have a therapist,you can cry and still be a boss.
(29:50):
Yes.
Yes.
You can do both.
It's not.
I'm weak and I need therapy.
You can do both, right?
You can be strong and you can goto therapy and seek help, and
you can be strong in so manyareas.
And then what we tend to do ashumans is if we are strong in
those areas, we tend to maximizeon those.
(30:11):
Especially like if you're a bossand you, you can kind of talk
yourself out of a weakness.
Or, I mean, there's times whereyou don't need to focus on your
weakness.
There's also times where youneed to, you know, reflect and
see how did I handle that?
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
And busyness is probably yourbiggest stiller, like
(30:33):
overscheduling being too busy,not taking time to do that.
So if you do have a stigma oftherapy for whatever reason,
doesn't matter what it is.
I think.
This is a kind of great point.
Yeah.
And it's also something thatlike made me, reconsider me,
toughing it out and sufferingthrough the pain and just
(30:56):
thinking, I'll figure it outsomeday.
I won't always be like this.
I'll just have to suffer throughit.
Right.
So think about emotional fitnessversus physical fitness.
our brain is arguably a biggerpart of our lives than our
physical body.
Like the physical body is just avessel.
Mm-hmm.
We are essentially our brains.
Everything happens up here.
Mm-hmm.
So why are we not training andobsessing over our emotional
(31:22):
fitness like we do with ourphysical attributes, especially
women?
Yeah.
We tend to be very focused onour physical appearance, which
mm-hmm.
Is an issue, but we're not gonnatalk about that today.
Yes.
So therapy is like hiring apersonal trainer for your brain.
It's hiring someone that is anexpert about.
What happens up in here so thatyou can better understand
yourself and look at yourselfobjectively and process things
(31:42):
and whatever it's mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
That's great.
So, some co coping tools for themiddle ground where, maybe there
are certain, roadblocks totherapy at this time, or you're,
you're still tough and get outjournaling.
you can rage write, I'll tellyou, and, and earlier in our
(32:04):
marriage, I still have journalsand, oh God, I just, I told God
on Jim so badly if he finds oneof those journals, I am in deep
trouble.
But it was my therapy, thoselines on that paper, me just
getting that out.
And, so it, it did definitelyhelp.
(32:25):
But, like saying it out loud,writing it can help.
Mm-hmm.
And then I would suggest onceyou write it, read it out loud
to yourself.
Mm-hmm.
So then you're getting atwo-pronged effect.
Yes.
Um, I love journaling.
Like I've never not felt betterafter I journal.
Mm-hmm.
And I think if you do itconsistently, which I've been
trying to do more, it's, it'sbeen helpful for me to like,
(32:48):
reflect on myself and like, lookhow much I've grown.
And also like mm-hmm.
Identify patterns within myselfif I'm like going back and
reading previous journals.
Mm-hmm.
So I did this like a month agoand it was insane because I
wrote something that I needed tohear like two weeks ago when I
read it.
And I like literally just criedbecause.
(33:09):
I like, forgot that I wrote thatand I forgot that it was
important to me.
And then I read it and I waslike, oh my gosh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Journaling is the best.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Another way that you can copeduring the middle ground, is
practicing boundaries.
Setting the boundaries.
To me, this is, this is thebottom line.
(33:33):
If we can get this.
I feel like so many things fallin line after, you know,
establishing the boundaries,communicating the boundaries.
Mm-hmm.
I believe is a huge thing too,because I feel like you can set
a boundary.
But when you've said to thatperson, I can no longer drink
(33:53):
the poison, or, you know whatI'm saying?
Like, I wouldn't say that.
Yeah.
But, but you can say, you know,you're not, the access is, is
denied now.
Or, you know, I have some,personal stories about all that,
but that would get me in big,big, big trouble.
So put that away.
(34:13):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
You can DM us if you need alittle one-on-one.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Also just checking in withtrusted people like we were
talking about earlier.
I feel, I definitely feel likewomen, we do this pretty well.
Somebody explained to me onetime that men do things side by
(34:37):
side hunting, fishing.
Playing sports, all those thingsare things that they're doing
with somebody.
Women, when we are with ourfriend girlfriends, we do things
face to face.
Mm-hmm.
We're yapping.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, but you know, we're eating,we're having a drink where, you
(34:57):
know, so also, you know, whenwe're talking about men and our
husbands and such, maybe keepthat in mind that they tend, we
tend to like go a certain way.
Um, and, and maybe you can helpencourage if they do need.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think an important note onthat as far as like checking in
(35:20):
with your friends as far as likehealing in the middle ground, I
think it's important, and again,we've talked about the
importance of your inner, innercircle is to have friends that
are not going to enable you.
They're gonna be honest withyou.
So that like when you do checkin with them and you maybe say
something you're strugglingwith, or.
They've noticed something aboutyou that you're self-harming or
(35:40):
whatever it is.
Like yeah.
You need to have friends thatare gonna want the best for you,
even if it means sayingsomething uncomfortable to your
face or whatever it might looklike.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think in order to be a goodfriend, you have to be willing
to lose the relationship.
If you see that there'ssomething happening and you need
to say it.
(36:00):
Mm-hmm.
Just being willing to say itwithout being afraid to lose
that friend.
Yeah.
And say it with love andcompassion, but sometimes you
have to address something thatcould potentially Yeah.
Dissolve that friendship.
This book that maybe we could doone day on the podcast called
(36:21):
All About Love by Bell Hooks.
It kind of like talks about.
We throw this word love aroundso much, but like what does it
actually mean when you love aperson in the right way?
Right.
Right.
And it means, essentially fromthat book, their definition of
love was wanting the best forsomeone mentally, physically,
spiritually, all of that.
And I think at some point, likeyou might have a situation with
(36:42):
a friend where the best for themmight be something that cost you
the friendship.
Mm-hmm.
Because you might be the onlyperson who's observed that
they're doing some like form ofemotional self harm and you have
to tell them, or whatever it is,they're an abusive relationship
and you tell them that, youknow, you sit them down and tell
them what you're observing andit might cost you the
friendship, but maybe that willbe the journey for that person
(37:05):
to get to that better place.
Emotionally.
Yeah.
Spiritually.
Physically.
Right, right.
You can think about that as justlike really throwing out a
lifeline.
You're throwing out a lifelineto a friend, you see the
destruction or whatever, andyou're willing to risk, and that
kind of thing.
Yeah.
I don't know if I explain,explained that right, but I know
what you're saying.
(37:26):
Yeah.
For you, what shifted your viewof therapy or emotional
openness?
What was the turning point fromyou growing up?
Growing up in the tough at outera and as someone who is very
emotionally intelligent and hassought therapy, what was the
changing point for that?
Okay.
It's gonna be life changing.
Tune in, lean in, desperation.
(37:49):
Desperation.
I was married, had two littlekids, was continuing to deal
with some generational stuff.
And I was desperate.
I had, just toughed it out forso long.
And not really knowing thatthat's what I was doing.
(38:10):
Not knowing that therapy wouldhelp if you're not ever
introduced to therapy and nobodyin your circle of friends or,
you know, really talks about it.
Um mm-hmm.
It wasn't a stigma for mebecause I, I needed something.
I didn't care.
I didn't care who knew, I didn'tcare how much it would cost.
I was willing to do whatever ittook.
(38:32):
And so we, Jim and I together,we probably had our first
therapy session around.
Around maybe two to three yearsin the marriage.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, because I didn't haveanything else to lean on.
I had my faith, but I broughtall this trauma into a
(38:53):
relationship and then startedhaving kids and just needed to
break some generational things.
And so, we went to therapy tolearn how to do that, which was
huge.
If you're having a major,sometimes you go to therapy not
just for yourself, but you go tothem in order to learn how to
(39:15):
take next steps.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
If everybody was a therapist, wewouldn't need therapy.
We understand there are certainpeople that are therapists and
they are trained in a wayspecifically to help with some
of those.
And so, the therapist at thattime was like.
Here's some things that you needto do, you know, and, and wrote
(39:35):
out some things.
And then just throughout ourmarriage, in and out of therapy,
and sometimes it was desperationafter that, but the initial
thought of saying, I've got tohave something different.
I've seen generation aftergeneration of this not working.
What I'm doing is not working.
And I started to see patternsthat I was repeating, and I
(39:58):
still deal with that.
It's like sometimes differentthings come up, cope with
things, different things likethat change.
And sometimes you need a tuneupso that was my big thing with
therapy.
And I guess the reason why Icontinued with therapy, was
because, I realized that I wasself-sabotaging.
(40:22):
Hmm.
My marriage, you know, thinkinglike, well, he's gonna do this,
so I'm just gonna give himanother reason to do it.
You know, like he's tighteningin on me.
Do not back me into a corner.
I will bite you.
And I knew that, that I, I, I'mlike a bulldog back me into the
corner and I'll, but, uh, but,but honestly, you know, like I
(40:50):
knew that I wasn't gonna be ableto hold this together.
I had no, I was totally out ofmy league.
And, Jim as well.
Uh, you know, so when you havetwo broken people that come
together, they continued to notonly break each other, but
everything else within thatpath.
So we just continued on here andthere.
(41:12):
When different issues came upand such.
So probably am getting ready toget back into therapy.
'cause I feel like I've, I'vehad some things that, you think
you've dealt with something.
And honestly, don't be so hardon yourself.
You've dealt with something.
If it comes back up, it doesn'tmean that you didn't deal right
the first time.
It can mean you needed moresessions.
(41:34):
Or maybe you realize thatthere's another facet to, you
know, I, I, I, I tell you, Irefuse to be managed.
I refuse.
Mm-hmm.
And that's a problem.
And I have to watch it, youknow, because I'll be like, you
will not manage me.
(41:54):
I refuse to be managed.
I am my old person.
I am a bulldog.
Um, and, and not in a great way.
Some of that, that's for youbeing a bulldog that.
Go to therapy.
Yes.
Yes.
But I will tell you, don't,don't expect if you're in my
generation or perhaps you're in,another generation, don't expect
(42:15):
everybody that's never talkedabout therapy to understand what
you're doing and be happy foryou.
You do it for yourself.
You may not ever talk about it.
I know.
I, I feel like it was yearsbefore I, I ever talked about
some of the stuff that I hadlearned with other parts of my
family.
Jim and I had this, but yeah.
(42:36):
So, KA, tell us about this.
Well, I have a question based ona lot of things I've said
already.
I definitely did internalize thebelief that I didn't need
therapy, I just needed to figureit out myself, which I had to
unlearn that for sure.
Mm-hmm.
That I cannot self sustain onjust my.
(42:56):
Pure will, right.
Or emotional strength.
I do need help and I havestruggled with mental health
issues ever since I was probably15, 16 years old.
And I think just from the thingsI observed, I internalized these
beliefs.
But also I do remember when Iwas probably around 16 and I
asked someone I trusted and Itold them, I think I need to go
(43:17):
to therapy.
And they essentially told methat that's not the answer and
to look elsewhere.
Mm-hmm.
And as a 16-year-old, I was justlike, okay.
I guess like if that's how theydo it, then I guess that's how I
have to do it.
I'll figure it out.
Mm-hmm.
And then it took me kind ofbecoming my own person and
moving to college and expandingmy worldview, and also just
(43:38):
meeting different people thathad different experiences
growing up and they didn't havethose limiting beliefs.
And so that's what led me togive therapy a try.
Mm-hmm.
And.
Here I am today.
I think I have learned a lotabout what it means to be
strong, and that doesn't meanthat I never seek help, because
(43:58):
I definitely need it.
Right.
And I think on the side note oftherapy, I also wanna mention
medication because that wasanother thing I struggled even
after I not gave in, but Iadmitted that I needed therapy
and I wasn't able to deal withthese issues myself.
I still, for the longest time,did not want to try medication
(44:19):
for anxiety or depressionbecause that was like another
thing that I thought I was beingweak if I tried it.
Mm-hmm.
And, which is crazy for me tosay, but absolutely is the
belief that I was telling myselfin my head.
And when I finally did try anantidepressant, my life was
never the same in the best waypossible.
Right, right, right.
(44:40):
Yeah.
So, yeah, I, I probably was puton.
Anti, well, it was right afterWeston was born.
I had terrible postpartumdepression and talked, I mean,
Jim knows everything, butalmost, almost had an affair.
It was just a bad scene all theway around.
So started on, um, medicationand have never gotten off.
(45:04):
I've gotten switched to adifferent medication, but
honestly, that is the least ofmy worries.
If I have to take that every dayfor the rest of my life in order
to, to keep some sanity withinmyself and within my family, I
will.
Yes.
I used to tell Jim, I'd be like,I'm taking the medicines because
you won't.
(45:25):
So if you're not gonna help withthe medicines, I'm gonna take
something so I can cope withyou.
Which he should have beentelling me that.
'cause I had the mess, I was themessy one in the relationship.
But yeah, I'm glad you brought,I, I'm glad you brought up the
thing about up medication andyeah, some people need it for a
time period and then they gooff.
(45:45):
Other people need it becausethere's a chemical imbalance.
But you know, I'm just thinking,I don't know anybody that
personally that could benefitfrom therapy and maybe a little
antidepressants.
Sure.
There's a lot going on in ourworld.
Oh man.
Yeah, definitely.
(46:06):
Yeah.
Another great point, Ken, thatyou, found was, healing is not
linear, so there's no shame infiguring it out as you go.
And I, that was something that Idealt with like a lot of
absolutes, you know, so it waskind of like, I need to figure
this out so it never happensagain.
(46:27):
Mm-hmm.
And always, and never shouldn'treally be in our personal
vocabulary when we're talkingabout situations.
'cause they do change.
So if, if, if something rearsits head back up, it could be
10, 15 years later.
Don't be mad at yourself.
You dealt with it at that time.
But like you said, I.
(46:47):
Uh, other things happen,different stressors come
different stages of life.
And so just understanding it'sokay.
You can figure it out as you go.
And you know, as parents it isokay to say to our children, I
don't know, but let me get backto you on that.
Yeah.
(47:08):
Sometimes that's the best thingyou can say.
Yes, it is.
It is.
Other than, tell me more.
Like, tell me more about that.
I'll, I'll, I try to remember,you know, if I'm in an awkward
situation or it's somebody, thatI sense there's some tension or
whatever people love to talkabout themselves, ask them
(47:28):
questions, not personalquestions to start out with, but
like, open the dialogue and thendon't feel like you have to have
all the answers.
Mm-hmm.
Don't we have amazing tools nowto find those?
Yeah.
So use them and also, you know.
I still feel like there's a lotof the dressing things up and
(47:52):
putting them in a nice litlittle neat box, especially in
the area that, that I live in.
Mm-hmm.
Still, I feel like there arestill people my age and younger
that are still in that mindsetof toughing it out and it being
like a crown.
You know, you're gonna get inheaven because you, because you
toughed it out, because yousacrificed yourself.
(48:16):
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And I, I do wanna say since,well, we're both religious and
we both seen the effects of, youknow, how this tough it out
manifests within religion.
So I do wanna say, and this issomething that struck a chord
with me while I was earlier onearlier on in my healing
journey, is therapy is not aweakness, it's a strategy.
(48:40):
Prayer can be great, but therapyis another strategy to put in
your tool belt.
And yeah, I don't think like,whatever religion mm-hmm.
You serve, I don't think thatwhatever deity you serve is
gonna be angry or disappointedif you're seeking help so that
you can feel happier.
Well, yeah.
And, and just, yeah.
(49:01):
Yeah.
It is a combination of severalthings, you know, that you, that
you need to do.
Some people are just like, well,God's got this and just kind of
lets it go.
And maybe, yeah, God has this,you may believe that within
yourself, but he's put peoplearound you to help you.
(49:22):
He's given people knowledge andabilities.
You know, even you, if youwanted to look in the Bible,
that's one.
Christianity is one religion,but he, you know, it's even
talked about that we all make upa body of that religion and one
person's the head, anotherperson's the foot, another
(49:43):
person's the leg or whatever.
And so just realizing that a lotof things can be done in tandem.
You don't have to do just onething.
It's not one or the other.
Right.
Right.
Not black and white.
Right, right, right.
For sure.
Yeah.
Well, Ronnie, you tell us whatshe's saved.
Golly, I've been feel like I'vesaid a lot.
(50:04):
Um, okay.
This is our, what she said forthe day.
You can't stop the waves, butyou can learn to surf.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Good one.
And yes, this is actually a guy.
So what he said, John Cabot Zen.
He is a professor of medicineand a creator of mindfulness
(50:26):
based stress, reduction.
And I love what this, you can'tstop the waves, but you can
learn to surf so good.
Because there's so much that'sout of our control that just
comes and goes.
So we just, we have to back upand punt, redirect, you know,
redo things like that.
Yeah, I really like that one.
(50:47):
'cause like, gosh, man, life ishard.
It is, it is.
Even if you're not dealing withlike trauma or dysfunction or
whatever it is, that doesn'tmean you don't need therapy.
And that doesn't mean that youcan't learn how to go through
life better and make thingsbetter right.
Yourself by using.
Strategies or coping mechanismsor tools or learning about
(51:07):
yourself, it'll all go to makethings easier.
Yeah.
So I think that's another greatpoint as well, since we're
talking about therapy, is youdon't need to have a terrible
backstory to Right.
Go to therapy.
Like if you've had the perfectlife and nothing bad has ever
happened to you, maybe youstruggle with things like body
image.
Maybe you struggle with thingslike emotional self-regulation.
(51:28):
Maybe you struggle with thingslike discipline.
Mm-hmm.
It could be even tiny littlethings, but there's experts in
therapy who can help you withjust like, I don't wanna say
little, because those are bigthings, but very important
things.
Yeah.
That I think are undervalued.
Yes.
Yes.
In terms of how we can handlethe stresses and life in
general.
Right, right.
(51:50):
That's good.
Well, for our challenge thisweek, we wanna invite you to try
one emotional health habit thisweek.
So whatever Fit best in yourschedule or what it might look
like.
We wanna invite you to try oneemotional health habit.
So whether that's journaling,getting together with a good
friend and sharing, maybe ifyou've been struggling with
something and you haven't feltbrave enough to voice it to
(52:12):
yourself or to a friend, trythat.
Or resting self care, that'salso mm-hmm.
A, a health habit you can do orbooking a session with a
therapist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So one of those things, let usknow, DM us, whatever it is,
comment on one of our posts, letus know what emotional health
(52:32):
habit you're starting this week,and let us know how it's going
for you.
And we can all learn and growtogether.
And that's the goal of thispodcast.
I have something reallyimportant that I wanna make sure
that we get across.
I've talked a lot aboutgenerations and, you know, my
parents' generation and stufflike that.
We definitely have to handlethat with care.
You can't go in and blastsomebody.
(52:55):
And so I just wanted to makesure that you heard me say, you
can get all the therapy in theworld.
It doesn't mean that that personis gonna change.
So you're doing this therapy foryourself.
So when things are tough or you,you find something in therapy
and you're like, oh, this, thishas been handed down to me.
Just be careful in how youapproach family members that
(53:20):
Yeah.
After therapy.
I hope that makes sense.
I think speaking for myself,this deeper understanding of
your generation's insights intothis has.
Made me more appreciative of youguys because you don't have the
tools that I have.
And it also, like, in terms ofmy parents who definitely grew
up in that generation, like Ihave a better understanding of
(53:41):
why they are the way they are.
And that doesn't make me thinkof them differently, but it
helps me understand them more.
Right.
And I can look at them and saythis is their first time going
through life too.
Yep.
And they had way worse parentsthan I had.
Yeah, that's true.
So approach older generationswith compassion, especially
older, from a youngergeneration.
Yes.
And seek to understand.
(54:03):
Not to always give input.
We are so glad you guys joinedus today.
We, if you like this podcast, weinvite you to please like, and
respond, follow us, so that wecan get the word out.
Word of mouth is huge.
So if you like this episode oryou think this is a really
interesting topic you wannashare with a friend, please do.
(54:24):
Yeah, just send them thisepisode and see what they think.
And while you're here before yougo, we would also love if you
would leave us a review and giveus some feedback for our show to
not only make us better, but themore feedback and interaction we
get as far as reviews and allthe social media engagements
that just helps to continuebuilding this platform and this
dream that we have to reach morepeople and have generational
(54:47):
discussions and learn and growtogether.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we hope you make it a greatday, and as we close every
episode, and that's the tea,that's, yay.
Who's in the Criminal mindsthing?
Matt Sarason, the guy fromFriday Night Lights, the actor,
I don't know his name, but he'sin it.
Oh my goodness.
That's another one too.
If anybody has, I could too Overand over and over.
Love that show for one reason inparticular.
Oh, for sure.
(00:32):
The eye candy is on point.
Oh my God.
It's just the head coach.
No one else I'm attracted to.
I know is him.
He is the man.
Yeah.
That's what we'd be doing on ourdays off.
Just like we were talking aboutserial killers and different
things like that, I think truecrime, we are gonna talk about,
(00:57):
therapy and whether or not we'regonna tough it out or go to
therapy and what some of thestigmas are around therapy,
especially maybe in the Biblebelt.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I think this is a greatgenerational topic, and I think
my generation has shifted moretowards being open to therapy
(01:19):
and emotional self-growth moreso than yours because mm-hmm.
Have you ever heard of.
Back in my day, we didn't havetime to feel we were too busy.
But yeah, this, this topic mightruffle some feathers, just like
our last one, but I guessmm-hmm.
That's how every generationaltopic is gonna be.
(01:40):
Oh yeah.
But yeah, like Ronnie said,we're just gonna talk about the
generational gap between theidea of like pushing through it
versus girl go to therapy,please.
Yes, yes, yes.
And this brings front and centerthis question.
Am I weak for needing helpversus is this just life being
hard?
Which is a question I've askedmyself many, many times.
(02:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So what we're gonna do, we'regonna kind of get into some of
the coping skills and, culturalconditioning, like we said
before, generationaldifferences, of course.
Therapy and healing middleground.
So.
Really, really a lot out there.
So let's just dig in.
(02:22):
Well, before we dive in.
Oh, welcome to Generational tea.
We all, we just get too ahead ofourselves.
Yes, we do.
Too.
Excited?
Yes.
Well, I am Cana and this isRonnie and we are so glad you
guys have tuned in to us today.
Um, yeah, so the Tough It Outera, it's very, much what I
(02:44):
lived in.
Mm-hmm.
It's not as much what I did, butit's how I saw my mom's
generation deal with stuff.
And I feel like your generationwas almost like the bridge to my
generation getting worse.
It.
Yeah, I, I do.
So You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Thanks.
(03:04):
Setting us up for success.
I appreciate Exactly.
Well, yeah.
Can you share any likeperspective or maybe experiences
you have, regarding this?
'cause you did kind of grow upin the grin and Barrett
generation.
Yeah.
And that was kind of yourparents' mentality, if you agree
with that.
Yes, yes.
So how do you think thataffected you growing up?
(03:26):
Oh my gosh.
Knocked in.
It was in the most incrediblydysfunctional way.
It was, very hard because youhad hurt people who were hurting
people.
You had generations passing downbefore them to my parents'
(03:50):
generation.
So it was just kind of like eachtime it almost got a little bit
worse.
Like this is in your head.
Especially being in the Biblebelt, this is something that I
have recognized in a lot ofpeople my mom's age and such is,
toughing it out was especiallylike in a husband and wife team,
(04:13):
toughing it out.
The women that toughed it outreally and truly have the
thinking of, I'm gonna berewarded in heaven because I've
toughed this out.
Almost like a rite of passageand almost like, it almost
elevated the trauma because theysaw it as, I'm gonna stay with
(04:35):
this and I'm gonna tough it outbecause.
That's what God wants me to do.
That's what my church says todo.
Women are supposed to be silent,so I can't imagine their
generation and what they had todo.
And I really do feel like they,in my case, people did the best
they had with what they knew.
Yeah.
But the problem was, eventuallyin order to grow and change and
(04:58):
change the generation that youpass down, you have to go
through, some realizations thatmaybe what you've been taught is
not, and so that's a crisis ofbelief right there.
Mm-hmm.
And, I feel like that thegenerations, like I said right
before us, it, it was really,really like, oh, I'm gonna stick
(05:21):
this out because there'll becrams in heaven for this.
That's how people stayed.
I believe, like, especially inmy.
Bible belt area.
That's why people stayedtogether.
Yeah.
It wasn't, I was gonna say,like, I, I think maybe you
suffered this worse than maybeanywhere else in just the United
States because Yes, I think, uh,there's a theme with people of
(05:45):
a, like really any faith, butespecially Christianity in the
South, like even my mom, who isvery devout, doesn't really, I
guess, believe in therapy andshe kind of thinks a lot of the
same things.
And I do think that's based offof what the older generation
taught her and she clings to herfaith and says like, this has to
be enough for me.
And it's like the same thing yousaid, like, I'll get a crown in
(06:07):
heaven for being so strong andhandling this by myself.
Right.
But I hate that for her.
Yes.
Because I think she could be ina better place mentally than she
is.
But that's very, very insightfulto all the things you just said.
Yeah, so, um, we'll we can talka little bit more specifics
later, but I do believe, andhere's the thing, as much as I
(06:30):
want that generation to changefor the better at this point,
it's not going to, unless thereis a major something that
happens.
So I think, you know, it's justgeneration layered after
generation of people who havenot dealt with issues, who have
continued to stuff them downand, you know, kind of step out
(06:54):
of the game in some senses.
Like, yeah, I can't do anythingabout that, so I'm just gonna
ignore it.
And that's another big thingthat I grew up with.
If you don't talk about it, itdoes not exist.
That is huge.
Yeah.
That is.
Yes.
That's definitely common themewith the tough out era.
(07:14):
Yes, yes, yes.
I know it was very lonely forthese ladies.
Mm-hmm.
It was lonely because they feltthe pressure to keep some
persona around other family,around church friends, you know?
And it was almost like, yeah, itwas like the big, dirty secret.
(07:36):
And I feel like every family hadone of those.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Whether, whether it wasaddiction, whether it was abuse,
whether it was neglect,whatever.
I feel like every family, everyhousehold, just like we know
everyone is dealing with theirown stuff, I feel like every
(07:58):
household that I know of,people.
There was dysfunction.
Mm-hmm.
But it was never talked about.
And if you don't talk about it,then you don't have to deal with
it.
And then also the, the secretit, you know, we know that
there's, there's no power insecrecy.
Yeah.
Until you're able to walk it outand take off the blinders and be
(08:19):
real with yourself.
There's no growth.
You can't have growth if you'rehiding things.
Yeah.
And also secrecy breeds shame,which Oh, has a lot of
detrimental effects over time.
Right, right.
And I do believe that thesewomen, were like, well, if I
just did better, he'd be happy.
(08:39):
Or if I just did better, youknow, maybe he won't do this
again.
Or every time it's like, it'sthe last time, this is the last
time it's gonna happen.
So then you have children ofthat family that have no idea
what to do with whatever, andare terrified to talk about it.
At all.
(09:00):
And then you have, you may havetwo or three siblings, or your
case three.
So then you have all of thosepeople in this household that
are all trying to deal by notdealing.
So, you know, it's kind of likeif your parents don't talk about
certain things as a child,Children have an amazing way to
(09:24):
make everything their fault.
Yeah.
And it's it, and, and, and I,and I believe that its, you have
to be talked out of that.
You have to have therapy to getout of that.
Yeah.
So you've got this justdysfunction and, the secrecy and
the shame.
And then you had almost like thedouble standard, what happened
(09:47):
at home never happened inpublic.
So as children, you're stilltrying to figure out, well, how
to blame yourself.
How to blame yourself.
Like, I didn't clean up wellenough or, you know, maybe I
stayed out too late I may nothave gotten punished for it.
And this is just an example,not, not a personal thing, but
(10:07):
if I stayed out late, the personthat was, that dealt with that
the next morning was not theman, it was the woman.
Because again, she feels likeshe's gotta somehow manage the,
the expectation and the influxof ideas and coping skills and
stuff like that.
So it, no one does this, no onedoes this because they want to.
(10:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It just, it just happens.
And you know, I know a lot ofpeople that have in that
generation that have kind of,moved past that, and had great
conversations with theirchildren.
And really, that's a huge thing.
So if you're listening to thisand maybe you didn't handle
certain things, it, you know, weas children, we know you're not
(10:53):
a hundred percent responsible,because we felt a part of that
responsibility and just a, a, atalk of saying, this was not
your fault.
You did not cause this.
I was not strong the, you know,or I, I didn't have the power.
I didn't have the means to tryfor a separation or get help.
(11:16):
So on and on it goes.
This is really interesting.
Like I've, I've always knownthat was a theme in older
generations, but I've neverreally had a conversation with
like my parents or like anyoneolder than a millennial about
this.
So hearing your insights,especially as someone that grows
up in the south, is.
Really enlightening and also assomeone that grew up in the
(11:37):
technological era and also theera of therapy and all that
stuff and having access to thesetypes of tools and it being more
normalized than it was for youguys.
Yeah, like I know the benefitsthat it's had on me and I
honestly can't imagine where Iwould be without like therapy,
without honestly like socialmedia.
'cause I tend to consume a lotof stuff that's more like
(11:58):
therapy talk or whatever it is,self-help stuff on social media
and like hearing people sharetheir stories on social media
and like what helps them andlike their emotional growth.
Like I've learned from that.
And so I'm just thinking aboutgenerations before me that never
had that.
And then they were also fightingthis stigma of you have to be
(12:19):
strong.
You don't need you.
Like if you ask for help, you'reweak.
Whatever it is, it's right.
It makes me really sad.
So definitely shout out toeveryone that didn't grow up
like I did because.
I can't imagine how hard thatmust have been and how
conflicting it must have felt tofeel like you were maybe losing
your mind or you're just lost orwhatever it is.
(12:41):
And you were afraid to ask forhelp because there's a stigma
around it.
Yeah.
Just shout out to all you womenwho powered through that and
wherever you got to today, youdid the best with what you had.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like you were just saying, didthis really happen or am I, did
I make this up?
If you see things and youinternalize them, but no one
(13:02):
else appears to have seen themor it happened to them because
the shame also it, it breakscommunication within the family.
Mm-hmm.
So you have siblings that livein the same house, but never
talk about the issue.
Never.
Yeah.
Never brought up, never.
I'm talking never.
Yeah.
So that part about what you saidabout, I kind of second guessing
(13:27):
yourself all the time.
I, I still deal with that.
Mm-hmm.
I still, that whole impostersyndrome thing I still deal
with, you know, I still dealwith that.
Yeah.
Because, you know, you, talkyourself out of what's really
going on in order to make it,pretty and to make it nice and
neat.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, well, you got this girl.
(13:49):
You've come so far.
You have been to therapy.
You're doing it so many times.
Well, it's, it's definitely,it's not a onetime use kind of
situation.
Right, right, right.
But yes.
Well, if anyone that's probablylike older than a millennial, do
any of these phrases soundfamiliar?
Don't air your dirty laundry.
What happens in this house staysin this house.
(14:11):
So, like you were talking aboutmm-hmm.
Silencing and secrecy.
Yeah.
And crying won't solve anything.
Um, no, sir.
Crying is actually a greatrelease for your parasympathetic
nervous system.
Yes.
You, you should do it becauseit'll a hundred percent make you
feel better.
Yeah.
Crying and it makes your skinfeel good.
If you ever had like a reallygood cry, it just cleanses your
(14:33):
skin.
Or you just take like a threehour bomb nap after.
Yes.
I know.
You're so exhausted after it.
Yes, it's true.
It's true.
So let's talk about where someof these things come from and
where they spill into.
So, like we said earlier, thereis a cultural theme to this idea
of toughing it out and mm-hmm.
(14:54):
A lot of these things we stillsee today.
So I'm not gonna spend a ton oftime on this, this first one
because I am not a black woman,so I cannot give my.
Personal expertise on it.
But I have heard, and I do havea lot of African American
friends that have shared howthis trope has negatively
affected them, and that's thestrong black woman trope.
I'm sure a lot of people haveheard of it.
A lot of other things, and maybethis will sound familiar to you,
(15:17):
Ronnie, is that idea of southernstoicism.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sound familiar?
Mm-hmm.
I think that relates to a lot ofwhat you just talked about.
Yeah.
And also gendered expectationsof silence and strength.
And I do think this is verypervasive to men in particular.
I think especially like in mygenerations, it's become a lot
easier for women to talk aboutthings and not be afraid to
(15:42):
speak out and know what strengthreally is.
But I do think this is an issuethat men still struggled with.
And I think a lot of this comesfrom like this idea of toxic
masculinity and this idea thatthey need to be X, Y, and Z.
And if they do any of thesethings, they're like feminine or
they're not strong or whatever.
Right.
They're a real man, which isright bs, but it's a thing that
(16:03):
happens.
Yeah.
I mean, you can, you can be a,quote unquote real man and be
miserable because you're notreally dealing with the stuff.
Now, my kids, I didn't do a lotright.
But this is one thing I did, I,I opened up like discussion for
(16:23):
emotional things.
Jim and I were, we were notpeople that saved things until a
later date or like shut downarguments and handle them
outside.
There are some arguments thatyou should never have in front
of your kids, but there's otherthings that are everyday stuff
(16:44):
that happens that if you see theargument, but you never see the
makeup everything iscatastrophized.
Mm-hmm.
They, they're having anargument, they're gonna get a
divorce, I'm gonna be, you know,split up.
I mean, it just plays in yourhead so well as someone that,
overheard a lot of arguments andnever saw the making up.
(17:06):
Yeah.
It messed me up.
So, yeah, you definitely didthat.
Right?
And you also, I mean, youdefinitely did like.
I think you guys raised Westonand Garrett on the right idea of
being a man because my husbandis not ashamed to communicate
with me.
Mm-hmm.
He's not ashamed to share howhe's feeling.
He's not ashamed to cry.
Mm-hmm.
And so that's a testament to howyou raised him, which is Yeah.
(17:29):
The right way.
Yeah, so we would, I mean, likewe might have a discussion and
then if it's something that itcan't be handled right, then I,
we would come back to them andsay, Hey guys, I, I messed up.
This is what I own in theargument.
This is how we came to, anagreement and these are the next
(17:50):
steps in order to hopefully notallow that to happen.
Those things mean so much to akid.
The comfort and the security ofjust that you can have nothing.
You could live in a cabin deepin the woods.
you know, completely off thegrid be dirt poor.
(18:10):
But if you have somebody in yourlife, if you have that role
model, you can overcomeanything.
I feel like if you know how toresolve tensions, how to
communicate what those tensionswere, maybe where they came
from, what you own about it asthe parent and both parents
(18:31):
can't just be one always doingit.
And then how to move forward,past it.
Yeah, definitely.
Well, let's talk a little bitbriefly about the positives
about this type of era.
Yes.
Because we can't just rag on itcompletely because Yes.
One thing I think it doespromote is resilience, AKA grit,
and this idea of like stayingcalm in the chaos, which are all
(18:53):
great virtues to have, but Ithink the ultimate idea is that
we're building these things, butwe're also seeking help when we
need it.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's the generaltheme.
But I do think that this idea ofhaving grit and resilience
through Yes, all of life'scraziness and what it can throw
at you, it did help promotethat, which is great.
But also on the negative side, alot of things you talked about
(19:18):
emotional suppression, healthissues.
Because when we're suppressingour emotions, guess what happens
over years and years and years?
They get stored in our body andthat causes you to have health
issues.
Mm-hmm.
And they start to manifestphysically instead of
emotionally.
Mm-hmm.
And that is not good.
Mm-hmm.
And we also have that sneakylittle friend called repressed
trauma because if you're justsilent and you never talk about
(19:39):
it, it's just gonna stay there.
Yeah.
It's not gonna get outta yourbody.
And that's what we want.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Toughing it out is great moralof the story until you're crying
into a Costco rotisserie chickenand calling it girl, girl
dinner.
That's true.
That is so true.
So Cana, let's talk abouttherapy being not weakness, but
(20:04):
a strategy.
Yeah.
Well, I, I did already kind ofsay like I am very appreciative
of the generation that I grew upin and how it was just more open
to talk about things.
I will say I kind of did get alittle bit of the former because
like I said, my mom is not abeliever in therapy and I think
(20:25):
she definitely internalized thetough it out era in some of the
worst ways and mm-hmm.
I mean, I do think my, myparents did the best job with
what they could, and yeah, frommy understanding they did a heck
of a lot better than theirparents did.
So I'm very thankful to them.
But I also think that some of mymom's beliefs and my parents
never really seeking therapy.
(20:46):
I just remember growing up and Ididn't really think that they
were happy and.
Just watching them like sufferthrough it, I guess, instead of
seeking help, kind of made meinternalized to do the same.
Mm-hmm.
So I didn't actually go totherapy until I was in college
and I felt like I was desperateat that point.
Mm-hmm.
Which is not what you want.
Therapy is like preventativemaintenance.
(21:07):
It's not go when you're likehanging on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What happened?
And I, I felt weak for going totherapy.
Like, I didn't like the way itmade me feel just like thinking
about going.
I think that's'cause of thebeliefs that I internalized, but
I am still glad I did because itwas a great experience for me.
(21:28):
I realized how helpful it wasand I feel like that was finally
the shift I had into, okay, Ineed help.
I'm not okay.
And then here I am a few, fewyears later, I am nowhere near
emotionally whole, I'm workingtowards it and I'm very thankful
to have the resources and thingsthat are normalized that I need.
Yeah.
(21:49):
Yeah.
I'm very, very thankful thatthere's open conversations about
mental health now, about havingboundaries, about healing your
inner child and getting yourtrauma out.
Yeah.
All of that is so great and I'mthankful that we're here and I
hope we can build on thatbecause I do think that like for
in the, in the South, I thinkit's moving a little bit slower
(22:10):
because of a lot of the thingsyou talked about and we both
kind of agreed.
It's the tough it out mindsettends to be a little bit worse
there, so mm-hmm.
I hope we can build on that forall generations, wherever you
live, all that.
I think the idea of likebreaking generational curses
became really prevalent and likethe millennial, gen Z, my
generation, and I think that'sgreat and I just, I love where
(22:33):
this is heading, but I thinkthat, like I said earlier, it's
a balance of both, like focusingon being resilient and having
gr, but also knowing when youneed help, recognizing we need
help and being able to seek itwithout feeling shame or feeling
like you're weak.
All that stuff.
Right.
Yeah.
Love that.
So let's talk about some signsthat toughing it out just isn't
(22:56):
working.
So if you're experiencing a lotof these frequently, that may be
a sign that you do need to seekhelp, so, mm-hmm.
Chronic anxiety, guilty sleepissues, also guilty,
irritability, guilty.
Applying currently in therapywith an awesome other signs,
(23:22):
feeling stuck, disinterested,emotionally numb.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Guilty.
Yeah.
Or maybe you can't stop doomscrolling on social media or
every relationship you justspiral and it never works out.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Those are signs that maybe youneed to heal something within
you and you need to grow.
(23:42):
And it's okay if you don't thinkyou can handle it by yourself
and.
Honestly, you might not be ableto if it's a theme you've had
your whole life.
Right.
And you need to seek help.
Um, that's interesting aboutthe, doom scrolling because,
through social media, people usethat as an escape to not deal
with reality.
(24:03):
Yeah.
So we're not saying that socialmedia is bad for you, but if you
are finding yourself, likechecking out a little bit and
just scrolling and, you know,while the TV's on, maybe every
other people are there, butyou're just scrolling'cause you
don't want to, you know, it'sjust a coping me mechanism.
It is, for sure.
Yeah.
(24:23):
It's definitely a good indicatorfor myself on like, when I need
to look inwards.
If I'm always like doomscrolling on social media.
Mm-hmm.
Or whenever I like, feel a toughemotion or whatever I like, tend
to dissociate from my body andjust like go emotionally numb.
So that's been a good indicatorfor me too.
Mm-hmm.
That it's not working.
(24:45):
I need help.
Right, right.
So let's talk about what therapyactually is.
Well, what it's not is laying ona couch talking about your mom
unless you have mommy issues orwhatever.
It's definitely not that.
Um, if you do, it's okay becauseI It's okay.
Yeah, exactly.
It's totally okay.
It helps you develop things liketools, patterns, boundaries,
(25:10):
self-regulation, healing, oldwounds to go forward.
yeah.
I think, well in my therapyexperience, yeah.
Just like saying things out loudhas helped me make realizations.
Even it's something that like, Iknow intrinsically, but like
I've never said out loud, whereI've never like really
(25:30):
confronted it verbally with likeanother person.
Mm-hmm.
Just saying them out loud hasbeen like.
Like a switch goes on in mymind, and then I'm just like,
wow.
Right.
Silence does not work.
You have to say things andthat'll jumpstart you to go on
your healing journey.
Right, right.
And that's why women need, Imean, community men do too.
(25:51):
That's why we all needcommunity.
Mm-hmm.
Because I, I mean, I feel likethis podcast has been a
therapist to me because sayingthings out loud is like, oh, I
haven't really dealt with that.
And we'll get into it a littlebit later, but some of, some of
your issues are gonna be fluid.
They're gonna wax and wane anddifferent things may come up
(26:13):
based on what your experience isat that time.
Mm.
So don't be so hard on yourself.
Yeah.
And don't think that, you know,well, I tried therapy.
It didn't work.
You tried it once, maybe twice.
Give it another.
Thought.
Yeah, because, yeah, I, my firsttherapist that I worked with, I
don't think it was a good fit,so I never really got into deep
issues because I wasn'tcomfortable.
(26:35):
Yeah.
But I had another therapist alittle bit later and it was like
a game changer.
Mm-hmm.
I just felt like we clicked.
It was so much easier for me tojust like spill my guts to her.
Yeah.
So it's definitely a matter offinding the right therapist.
Right.
Also, let's talk about somedifferent kinds of therapies
because it's not all justone-on-one.
So if that makes youuncomfortable, like there's so
(26:55):
many options, whether that isjust traditional talk therapy
one-on-one.
Mm-hmm.
You can do group therapy.
Life coaching in some instancescan also serve as a form of
therapy.
CBT, which is cognitivebehavioral therapy, I know is a
really popular one.
I have been hearing a lot aboutsomatic therapy.
So for people like me that tendto like intellectualize their
(27:18):
emotions, somatic therapy isfocused on like.
Understanding and feeling versusintellectualizing and talking
about it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So I've seen that one a lot.
Another therapy that's beenpopular for people that have
trauma or really distressingexperiences they had process is
EMDR.
So it's eye movement,desensitization and reprocessing
(27:40):
therapy.
So it's a mouthful.
I don't know that much about it,but if it sounds like something
you could benefit from, you candefinitely look it up and find
out more.
And there's therapists with, Ithink, specific certifications
to do.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Like these specialized forms oftherapy.
Mm-hmm.
another thing I did in the past,it's kind of a different form of
therapy.
Well, I mean it's still therapy,but different options.
(28:01):
Is this app called Better Help?
And it was like really cheap forme.
Uh huh And you can, you can dolike a phone call with a
therapist.
You can chat with them.
So if you don't feelcomfortable, like talking on the
phone to a therapist or you cando a video call.
So if you're not comfortablewith like traditional therapy
face-to-face, there's otheroptions for you to still be able
(28:22):
to access all the benefits withtherapy, but within a space that
you're comfortable in.
Yeah, that's the key.
Finding something that you'recomfortable in and if you need
to switch therapists, don'tworry.
It's not personal and I dobelieve that they don't take it
personally either, so No, Idon't think so.
You're right.
(28:42):
If they do, they're probably nota good therapist.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
So one of the biggest myths isyou don't have to be falling
apart to go to therapy.
So you may be in a good spaceright now.
But maybe you look back in thepast and you're like, Hmm, I
wish I'd handled thatdifferently.
(29:04):
You know, I got through it.
Or just to release negativeemotions, things that you
probably haven't even thoughtabout in years sometimes can
happen.
And they are truly educated andhave been trained on how to ask
the right questions to get to,you know, the other layers of
(29:25):
the onion to go deeper mm-hmm.
Into it.
So, yeah.
All right.
Well now that we've talked aboutkind of both sides and both
generations and both outlooks,let's kind of talk about the
nuance of the InBetween.
So being strong and also seekingsupport.
We're gonna say it louder forthe people in the back journal.
And you can have a therapist,you can cry and still be a boss.
(29:50):
Yes.
Yes.
You can do both.
It's not.
I'm weak and I need therapy.
You can do both, right?
You can be strong and you can goto therapy and seek help, and
you can be strong in so manyareas.
And then what we tend to do ashumans is if we are strong in
those areas, we tend to maximizeon those.
(30:11):
Especially like if you're a bossand you, you can kind of talk
yourself out of a weakness.
Or, I mean, there's times whereyou don't need to focus on your
weakness.
There's also times where youneed to, you know, reflect and
see how did I handle that?
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
And busyness is probably yourbiggest stiller, like
(30:33):
overscheduling being too busy,not taking time to do that.
So if you do have a stigma oftherapy for whatever reason,
doesn't matter what it is.
I think.
This is a kind of great point.
Yeah.
And it's also something thatlike made me, reconsider me,
toughing it out and sufferingthrough the pain and just
(30:56):
thinking, I'll figure it outsomeday.
I won't always be like this.
I'll just have to suffer throughit.
Right.
So think about emotional fitnessversus physical fitness.
our brain is arguably a biggerpart of our lives than our
physical body.
Like the physical body is just avessel.
Mm-hmm.
We are essentially our brains.
Everything happens up here.
Mm-hmm.
So why are we not training andobsessing over our emotional
(31:22):
fitness like we do with ourphysical attributes, especially
women?
Yeah.
We tend to be very focused onour physical appearance, which
mm-hmm.
Is an issue, but we're not gonnatalk about that today.
Yes.
So therapy is like hiring apersonal trainer for your brain.
It's hiring someone that is anexpert about.
What happens up in here so thatyou can better understand
yourself and look at yourselfobjectively and process things
(31:42):
and whatever it's mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
That's great.
So, some co coping tools for themiddle ground where, maybe there
are certain, roadblocks totherapy at this time, or you're,
you're still tough and get outjournaling.
you can rage write, I'll tellyou, and, and earlier in our
(32:04):
marriage, I still have journalsand, oh God, I just, I told God
on Jim so badly if he finds oneof those journals, I am in deep
trouble.
But it was my therapy, thoselines on that paper, me just
getting that out.
And, so it, it did definitelyhelp.
(32:25):
But, like saying it out loud,writing it can help.
Mm-hmm.
And then I would suggest onceyou write it, read it out loud
to yourself.
Mm-hmm.
So then you're getting atwo-pronged effect.
Yes.
Um, I love journaling.
Like I've never not felt betterafter I journal.
Mm-hmm.
And I think if you do itconsistently, which I've been
trying to do more, it's, it'sbeen helpful for me to like,
(32:48):
reflect on myself and like, lookhow much I've grown.
And also like mm-hmm.
Identify patterns within myselfif I'm like going back and
reading previous journals.
Mm-hmm.
So I did this like a month agoand it was insane because I
wrote something that I needed tohear like two weeks ago when I
read it.
And I like literally just criedbecause.
(33:09):
I like, forgot that I wrote thatand I forgot that it was
important to me.
And then I read it and I waslike, oh my gosh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Journaling is the best.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Another way that you can copeduring the middle ground, is
practicing boundaries.
Setting the boundaries.
To me, this is, this is thebottom line.
(33:33):
If we can get this.
I feel like so many things fallin line after, you know,
establishing the boundaries,communicating the boundaries.
Mm-hmm.
I believe is a huge thing too,because I feel like you can set
a boundary.
But when you've said to thatperson, I can no longer drink
(33:53):
the poison, or, you know whatI'm saying?
Like, I wouldn't say that.
Yeah.
But, but you can say, you know,you're not, the access is, is
denied now.
Or, you know, I have some,personal stories about all that,
but that would get me in big,big, big trouble.
So put that away.
(34:13):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
You can DM us if you need alittle one-on-one.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Also just checking in withtrusted people like we were
talking about earlier.
I feel, I definitely feel likewomen, we do this pretty well.
Somebody explained to me onetime that men do things side by
(34:37):
side hunting, fishing.
Playing sports, all those thingsare things that they're doing
with somebody.
Women, when we are with ourfriend girlfriends, we do things
face to face.
Mm-hmm.
We're yapping.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, but you know, we're eating,we're having a drink where, you
(34:57):
know, so also, you know, whenwe're talking about men and our
husbands and such, maybe keepthat in mind that they tend, we
tend to like go a certain way.
Um, and, and maybe you can helpencourage if they do need.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think an important note onthat as far as like checking in
(35:20):
with your friends as far as likehealing in the middle ground, I
think it's important, and again,we've talked about the
importance of your inner, innercircle is to have friends that
are not going to enable you.
They're gonna be honest withyou.
So that like when you do checkin with them and you maybe say
something you're strugglingwith, or.
They've noticed something aboutyou that you're self-harming or
(35:40):
whatever it is.
Like yeah.
You need to have friends thatare gonna want the best for you,
even if it means sayingsomething uncomfortable to your
face or whatever it might looklike.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think in order to be a goodfriend, you have to be willing
to lose the relationship.
If you see that there'ssomething happening and you need
to say it.
(36:00):
Mm-hmm.
Just being willing to say itwithout being afraid to lose
that friend.
Yeah.
And say it with love andcompassion, but sometimes you
have to address something thatcould potentially Yeah.
Dissolve that friendship.
This book that maybe we could doone day on the podcast called
(36:21):
All About Love by Bell Hooks.
It kind of like talks about.
We throw this word love aroundso much, but like what does it
actually mean when you love aperson in the right way?
Right.
Right.
And it means, essentially fromthat book, their definition of
love was wanting the best forsomeone mentally, physically,
spiritually, all of that.
And I think at some point, likeyou might have a situation with
(36:42):
a friend where the best for themmight be something that cost you
the friendship.
Mm-hmm.
Because you might be the onlyperson who's observed that
they're doing some like form ofemotional self harm and you have
to tell them, or whatever it is,they're an abusive relationship
and you tell them that, youknow, you sit them down and tell
them what you're observing andit might cost you the
friendship, but maybe that willbe the journey for that person
(37:05):
to get to that better place.
Emotionally.
Yeah.
Spiritually.
Physically.
Right, right.
You can think about that as justlike really throwing out a
lifeline.
You're throwing out a lifelineto a friend, you see the
destruction or whatever, andyou're willing to risk, and that
kind of thing.
Yeah.
I don't know if I explain,explained that right, but I know
what you're saying.
(37:26):
Yeah.
For you, what shifted your viewof therapy or emotional
openness?
What was the turning point fromyou growing up?
Growing up in the tough at outera and as someone who is very
emotionally intelligent and hassought therapy, what was the
changing point for that?
Okay.
It's gonna be life changing.
Tune in, lean in, desperation.
(37:49):
Desperation.
I was married, had two littlekids, was continuing to deal
with some generational stuff.
And I was desperate.
I had, just toughed it out forso long.
And not really knowing thatthat's what I was doing.
(38:10):
Not knowing that therapy wouldhelp if you're not ever
introduced to therapy and nobodyin your circle of friends or,
you know, really talks about it.
Um mm-hmm.
It wasn't a stigma for mebecause I, I needed something.
I didn't care.
I didn't care who knew, I didn'tcare how much it would cost.
I was willing to do whatever ittook.
(38:32):
And so we, Jim and I together,we probably had our first
therapy session around.
Around maybe two to three yearsin the marriage.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, because I didn't haveanything else to lean on.
I had my faith, but I broughtall this trauma into a
(38:53):
relationship and then startedhaving kids and just needed to
break some generational things.
And so, we went to therapy tolearn how to do that, which was
huge.
If you're having a major,sometimes you go to therapy not
just for yourself, but you go tothem in order to learn how to
(39:15):
take next steps.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
If everybody was a therapist, wewouldn't need therapy.
We understand there are certainpeople that are therapists and
they are trained in a wayspecifically to help with some
of those.
And so, the therapist at thattime was like.
Here's some things that you needto do, you know, and, and wrote
(39:35):
out some things.
And then just throughout ourmarriage, in and out of therapy,
and sometimes it was desperationafter that, but the initial
thought of saying, I've got tohave something different.
I've seen generation aftergeneration of this not working.
What I'm doing is not working.
And I started to see patternsthat I was repeating, and I
(39:58):
still deal with that.
It's like sometimes differentthings come up, cope with
things, different things likethat change.
And sometimes you need a tuneupso that was my big thing with
therapy.
And I guess the reason why Icontinued with therapy, was
because, I realized that I wasself-sabotaging.
(40:22):
Hmm.
My marriage, you know, thinkinglike, well, he's gonna do this,
so I'm just gonna give himanother reason to do it.
You know, like he's tighteningin on me.
Do not back me into a corner.
I will bite you.
And I knew that, that I, I, I'mlike a bulldog back me into the
corner and I'll, but, uh, but,but honestly, you know, like I
(40:50):
knew that I wasn't gonna be ableto hold this together.
I had no, I was totally out ofmy league.
And, Jim as well.
Uh, you know, so when you havetwo broken people that come
together, they continued to notonly break each other, but
everything else within thatpath.
So we just continued on here andthere.
(41:12):
When different issues came upand such.
So probably am getting ready toget back into therapy.
'cause I feel like I've, I'vehad some things that, you think
you've dealt with something.
And honestly, don't be so hardon yourself.
You've dealt with something.
If it comes back up, it doesn'tmean that you didn't deal right
the first time.
It can mean you needed moresessions.
(41:34):
Or maybe you realize thatthere's another facet to, you
know, I, I, I, I tell you, Irefuse to be managed.
I refuse.
Mm-hmm.
And that's a problem.
And I have to watch it, youknow, because I'll be like, you
will not manage me.
(41:54):
I refuse to be managed.
I am my old person.
I am a bulldog.
Um, and, and not in a great way.
Some of that, that's for youbeing a bulldog that.
Go to therapy.
Yes.
Yes.
But I will tell you, don't,don't expect if you're in my
generation or perhaps you're in,another generation, don't expect
(42:15):
everybody that's never talkedabout therapy to understand what
you're doing and be happy foryou.
You do it for yourself.
You may not ever talk about it.
I know.
I, I feel like it was yearsbefore I, I ever talked about
some of the stuff that I hadlearned with other parts of my
family.
Jim and I had this, but yeah.
(42:36):
So, KA, tell us about this.
Well, I have a question based ona lot of things I've said
already.
I definitely did internalize thebelief that I didn't need
therapy, I just needed to figureit out myself, which I had to
unlearn that for sure.
Mm-hmm.
That I cannot self sustain onjust my.
(42:56):
Pure will, right.
Or emotional strength.
I do need help and I havestruggled with mental health
issues ever since I was probably15, 16 years old.
And I think just from the thingsI observed, I internalized these
beliefs.
But also I do remember when Iwas probably around 16 and I
asked someone I trusted and Itold them, I think I need to go
(43:17):
to therapy.
And they essentially told methat that's not the answer and
to look elsewhere.
Mm-hmm.
And as a 16-year-old, I was justlike, okay.
I guess like if that's how theydo it, then I guess that's how I
have to do it.
I'll figure it out.
Mm-hmm.
And then it took me kind ofbecoming my own person and
moving to college and expandingmy worldview, and also just
(43:38):
meeting different people thathad different experiences
growing up and they didn't havethose limiting beliefs.
And so that's what led me togive therapy a try.
Mm-hmm.
And.
Here I am today.
I think I have learned a lotabout what it means to be
strong, and that doesn't meanthat I never seek help, because
(43:58):
I definitely need it.
Right.
And I think on the side note oftherapy, I also wanna mention
medication because that wasanother thing I struggled even
after I not gave in, but Iadmitted that I needed therapy
and I wasn't able to deal withthese issues myself.
I still, for the longest time,did not want to try medication
(44:19):
for anxiety or depressionbecause that was like another
thing that I thought I was beingweak if I tried it.
Mm-hmm.
And, which is crazy for me tosay, but absolutely is the
belief that I was telling myselfin my head.
And when I finally did try anantidepressant, my life was
never the same in the best waypossible.
Right, right, right.
(44:40):
Yeah.
So, yeah, I, I probably was puton.
Anti, well, it was right afterWeston was born.
I had terrible postpartumdepression and talked, I mean,
Jim knows everything, butalmost, almost had an affair.
It was just a bad scene all theway around.
So started on, um, medicationand have never gotten off.
(45:04):
I've gotten switched to adifferent medication, but
honestly, that is the least ofmy worries.
If I have to take that every dayfor the rest of my life in order
to, to keep some sanity withinmyself and within my family, I
will.
Yes.
I used to tell Jim, I'd be like,I'm taking the medicines because
you won't.
(45:25):
So if you're not gonna help withthe medicines, I'm gonna take
something so I can cope withyou.
Which he should have beentelling me that.
'cause I had the mess, I was themessy one in the relationship.
But yeah, I'm glad you brought,I, I'm glad you brought up the
thing about up medication andyeah, some people need it for a
time period and then they gooff.
(45:45):
Other people need it becausethere's a chemical imbalance.
But you know, I'm just thinking,I don't know anybody that
personally that could benefitfrom therapy and maybe a little
antidepressants.
Sure.
There's a lot going on in ourworld.
Oh man.
Yeah, definitely.
(46:06):
Yeah.
Another great point, Ken, thatyou, found was, healing is not
linear, so there's no shame infiguring it out as you go.
And I, that was something that Idealt with like a lot of
absolutes, you know, so it waskind of like, I need to figure
this out so it never happensagain.
(46:27):
Mm-hmm.
And always, and never shouldn'treally be in our personal
vocabulary when we're talkingabout situations.
'cause they do change.
So if, if, if something rearsits head back up, it could be
10, 15 years later.
Don't be mad at yourself.
You dealt with it at that time.
But like you said, I.
(46:47):
Uh, other things happen,different stressors come
different stages of life.
And so just understanding it'sokay.
You can figure it out as you go.
And you know, as parents it isokay to say to our children, I
don't know, but let me get backto you on that.
Yeah.
(47:08):
Sometimes that's the best thingyou can say.
Yes, it is.
It is.
Other than, tell me more.
Like, tell me more about that.
I'll, I'll, I try to remember,you know, if I'm in an awkward
situation or it's somebody, thatI sense there's some tension or
whatever people love to talkabout themselves, ask them
(47:28):
questions, not personalquestions to start out with, but
like, open the dialogue and thendon't feel like you have to have
all the answers.
Mm-hmm.
Don't we have amazing tools nowto find those?
Yeah.
So use them and also, you know.
I still feel like there's a lotof the dressing things up and
(47:52):
putting them in a nice litlittle neat box, especially in
the area that, that I live in.
Mm-hmm.
Still, I feel like there arestill people my age and younger
that are still in that mindsetof toughing it out and it being
like a crown.
You know, you're gonna get inheaven because you, because you
toughed it out, because yousacrificed yourself.
(48:16):
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
And I, I do wanna say since,well, we're both religious and
we both seen the effects of, youknow, how this tough it out
manifests within religion.
So I do wanna say, and this issomething that struck a chord
with me while I was earlier onearlier on in my healing
journey, is therapy is not aweakness, it's a strategy.
(48:40):
Prayer can be great, but therapyis another strategy to put in
your tool belt.
And yeah, I don't think like,whatever religion mm-hmm.
You serve, I don't think thatwhatever deity you serve is
gonna be angry or disappointedif you're seeking help so that
you can feel happier.
Well, yeah.
And, and just, yeah.
(49:01):
Yeah.
It is a combination of severalthings, you know, that you, that
you need to do.
Some people are just like, well,God's got this and just kind of
lets it go.
And maybe, yeah, God has this,you may believe that within
yourself, but he's put peoplearound you to help you.
(49:22):
He's given people knowledge andabilities.
You know, even you, if youwanted to look in the Bible,
that's one.
Christianity is one religion,but he, you know, it's even
talked about that we all make upa body of that religion and one
person's the head, anotherperson's the foot, another
(49:43):
person's the leg or whatever.
And so just realizing that a lotof things can be done in tandem.
You don't have to do just onething.
It's not one or the other.
Right.
Right.
Not black and white.
Right, right, right.
For sure.
Yeah.
Well, Ronnie, you tell us whatshe's saved.
Golly, I've been feel like I'vesaid a lot.
(50:04):
Um, okay.
This is our, what she said forthe day.
You can't stop the waves, butyou can learn to surf.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Good one.
And yes, this is actually a guy.
So what he said, John Cabot Zen.
He is a professor of medicineand a creator of mindfulness
(50:26):
based stress, reduction.
And I love what this, you can'tstop the waves, but you can
learn to surf so good.
Because there's so much that'sout of our control that just
comes and goes.
So we just, we have to back upand punt, redirect, you know,
redo things like that.
Yeah, I really like that one.
(50:47):
'cause like, gosh, man, life ishard.
It is, it is.
Even if you're not dealing withlike trauma or dysfunction or
whatever it is, that doesn'tmean you don't need therapy.
And that doesn't mean that youcan't learn how to go through
life better and make thingsbetter right.
Yourself by using.
Strategies or coping mechanismsor tools or learning about
(51:07):
yourself, it'll all go to makethings easier.
Yeah.
So I think that's another greatpoint as well, since we're
talking about therapy, is youdon't need to have a terrible
backstory to Right.
Go to therapy.
Like if you've had the perfectlife and nothing bad has ever
happened to you, maybe youstruggle with things like body
image.
Maybe you struggle with thingslike emotional self-regulation.
(51:28):
Maybe you struggle with thingslike discipline.
Mm-hmm.
It could be even tiny littlethings, but there's experts in
therapy who can help you withjust like, I don't wanna say
little, because those are bigthings, but very important
things.
Yeah.
That I think are undervalued.
Yes.
Yes.
In terms of how we can handlethe stresses and life in
general.
Right, right.
(51:50):
That's good.
Well, for our challenge thisweek, we wanna invite you to try
one emotional health habit thisweek.
So whatever Fit best in yourschedule or what it might look
like.
We wanna invite you to try oneemotional health habit.
So whether that's journaling,getting together with a good
friend and sharing, maybe ifyou've been struggling with
something and you haven't feltbrave enough to voice it to
(52:12):
yourself or to a friend, trythat.
Or resting self care, that'salso mm-hmm.
A, a health habit you can do orbooking a session with a
therapist.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So one of those things, let usknow, DM us, whatever it is,
comment on one of our posts, letus know what emotional health
(52:32):
habit you're starting this week,and let us know how it's going
for you.
And we can all learn and growtogether.
And that's the goal of thispodcast.
I have something reallyimportant that I wanna make sure
that we get across.
I've talked a lot aboutgenerations and, you know, my
parents' generation and stufflike that.
We definitely have to handlethat with care.
You can't go in and blastsomebody.
(52:55):
And so I just wanted to makesure that you heard me say, you
can get all the therapy in theworld.
It doesn't mean that that personis gonna change.
So you're doing this therapy foryourself.
So when things are tough or you,you find something in therapy
and you're like, oh, this, thishas been handed down to me.
Just be careful in how youapproach family members that
(53:20):
Yeah.
After therapy.
I hope that makes sense.
I think speaking for myself,this deeper understanding of
your generation's insights intothis has.
Made me more appreciative of youguys because you don't have the
tools that I have.
And it also, like, in terms ofmy parents who definitely grew
up in that generation, like Ihave a better understanding of
(53:41):
why they are the way they are.
And that doesn't make me thinkof them differently, but it
helps me understand them more.
Right.
And I can look at them and saythis is their first time going
through life too.
Yep.
And they had way worse parentsthan I had.
Yeah, that's true.
So approach older generationswith compassion, especially
older, from a youngergeneration.
Yes.
And seek to understand.
(54:03):
Not to always give input.
We are so glad you guys joinedus today.
We, if you like this podcast, weinvite you to please like, and
respond, follow us, so that wecan get the word out.
Word of mouth is huge.
So if you like this episode oryou think this is a really
interesting topic you wannashare with a friend, please do.
(54:24):
Yeah, just send them thisepisode and see what they think.
And while you're here before yougo, we would also love if you
would leave us a review and giveus some feedback for our show to
not only make us better, but themore feedback and interaction we
get as far as reviews and allthe social media engagements
that just helps to continuebuilding this platform and this
dream that we have to reach morepeople and have generational
(54:47):
discussions and learn and growtogether.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we hope you make it a greatday, and as we close every
episode, and that's the tea,that's, yay.
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