June 16, 2025 • 37 mins
Insights from a Globally Mobile Parent with Raffiah.
In this episode of the Globally Thriving Families Podcast, host Clare O'Byrne interviews Raffiah, a parent who has moved internationally nine times over the past 20 years. They discuss the challenges and strategies of raising children in different countries, maintaining cultural roots, and coping with repeated transitions. Raffiah shares her personal experiences, including her initial struggle with loss of independence, her journey in creating a supportive and creative environment for her children, and how she engaged them in the moving process. The episode also delves into the importance of investing in self-development amidst family responsibilities and offers practical advice for parents navigating international relocations.
00:00 Introduction to Globally Thriving Families Podcast
01:07 Meet Raffiah: A Globally Mobile Parent
04:02 Challenges of Moving and Raising Kids Abroad
06:15 Finding Community and Coping with Loneliness
08:40 Creative Solutions for Parenting on the Move
12:27 Impact on Career and Personal Growth
17:29 Supporting Children Through Transitions
19:05 Involving Children in the Moving Process
20:29 Maintaining Cultural Heritage Abroad
24:05 Preparing Children for a Move
26:01 Managing Emotions and Friendships During Moves
29:06 Personal Reflections and Advice for Parents
36:10 Final Thoughts and Resources
Connect with Raffiah on Instagram: @keepusbuzymum
Book a free 20 minute call with Clare: https://tidycal.com/globallythriving/20-minute-meeting
Connect with Clare: globally.thriving@gmail.com
Website: https://www.globallythriving.com
Connect with Clare on Instagram: http://instagram.com/globally_thriving
Book a free 20 minute call with Clare: https://tidycal.com/globallythriving/20-minute-meeting
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Are you a parent or caregiverraising your child
internationally?
Are you curious about how tonurture your child's
development?
But find all the parentinginformation out there confusing?
If so, you are in the rightplace.
Welcome to the Globally ThrivingFamilies Podcast.
I'm your host, Clare O'Byrne, aparent coach and occupational
(00:28):
therapist with a passion forsupporting children and their
families for more than 25 years.
Whether it's understanding howto build resilience to practical
tips for language development,screen time challenges, and
staying calm amongst the chaos,Globally Thriving Families is
here to help.
(00:48):
Join me as we explore the topicsthat give you the insights and
guidance you need to supportyour children to thrive.
No matter where your family'sadventures take you.
Hi there.
Welcome back to GloballyThriving Families, and this week
(01:11):
I am excited because I got tosit down with my friend Raffiah,
whom I met about eight years agoin Kuwait.
And she has moved eight times in20 years and has raised her kids
in the process.
So we had a great conversationabout some of the experiences
she's had and what she's learnedalong the way about herself and
(01:36):
her kids.
So if you've ever wondered abouthow constant transitions, shape
parenting and our sense ofidentity, then this episode is
for you.
So here goes.
Clare (01:49):
Hi Raffiah.
Welcome.
Raffiah (01:52):
Hello.
Thanks having me.
Clare (01:55):
Oh, thanks so much for being here.
I'm really excited to talk toyou today.
So, just to get started, for thelisteners, can you tell me a
little bit about your journey asa globally mobile parent?
You know a bit about thecountries that you've lived in
and, uh, bit about your familyright now.
Raffiah (02:15):
So I am originally from Trinidad and Tobago.
It's uh, twin Islands in theCaribbean.
And, um.
Growing up I never knew, I wouldever leave my tiny island.
Um, so when I got married, myhusband's job has us moving from
country to country and um, todate we've moved nine times.
(02:40):
So I can list you the countries
Clare (02:42):
Yes, definitely go for it.
Raffiah (02:44):
So from Trinidad our first move was, um, Houston and,
from Houston, Egypt.
Egypt to Oman, Oman Dubai, Dubaito Kuwait, Kuwait to Delhi
Gurgaon and then to England.
And now we're back in Dubai.
(03:05):
Yeah,
Clare (03:06):
Oh my goodness.
Wow.
That's a lot of places.
And what's the time span thatthat has happened in I.
Raffiah (03:17):
So that, so when we moved to Houston, that was in
2005.
Yes.
So since
Clare (03:26):
Okay.
Raffiah (03:26):
We've been on the move.
Yeah.
Clare (03:29):
A 20 year journey.
My goodness.
Raffiah (03:31):
25..
Yeah.
Clare (03:33):
You have, you have two kids, right?
So how old is the oldest?
Raffiah (03:39):
So she's my first.
So she was born when we moved toHouston.
She's 18, she'll be 19 thisyear.
And then she is 11, she'll be 12soon.
She was actually born in Dubaithe last time we lived here.
Clare (03:57):
Right.
Raffiah (03:57):
big age gap, but yeah, two
Clare (03:59):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
I want you to think back to thefirst move that you made from
Trinidad to Houston.
Can you remember how you felt atthe time and what that first
experience was like?
I.
Raffiah (04:16):
Yes.
That, was a shock to my system,to my whole way of life because,
you know, living in Trinidad,working, you it's very different
So I left my job in Trinidad.
We moved to Houston, um, and youknow, there's nobody that you
(04:38):
know, so everything is all new.
The area's all new.
Um, it was the loss of,independence that was big for
me.
Um, I think that was thebiggest, thing, the loss of
independence because, you know,um, something simple as opening
(04:58):
a bank account, having your owncredit card, you know, it's.
Clare (05:02):
Hmm.
Raffiah (05:02):
Because you don't have a job.
And I used to work in the bankfor over 8 years, so it was,
Clare (05:07):
Yeah.
Raffiah (05:08):
It was really a shock.
So then, you know, you have tothink about, okay, how, how do I
move on from this?
And, you know, my husband, thenext day we landed actually in
Houston, he, he went off shore.
So I was literally left on myown.
Clare (05:23):
Really?
How long did he go for thatfirst trip?
Raffiah (05:28):
I think it was about a week.
Clare (05:30):
Yeah.
Raffiah (05:31):
About a week.
yeah.
But you know, you can't sit anddo nothing, you know, uh,
Trinidad and, Houston, theydrive on different sides of the
road.
So my first thing was, okay, letme jump in the, the car, the
rental, and start driving.
Let's, let's see how far I cango.
There was a mall down the road,so, you know, it, it's the
(05:51):
little things that you need tostart doing to integrate, into
your new environment.
But, the lack of independence.
Um, yeah, that was the biggest,as well as, you know, it's, it's
a very lonely time each move.
It is a lonely time
Clare (06:09):
Yeah.
Raffiah (06:10):
and have to put
Clare (06:10):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (06:11):
yourself out there to, connect.
Clare (06:15):
Yeah.
So speaking of that, each timeyou've moved and you've had to
kind of start again in terms ofconnecting or finding that
community that you need, howhave you actually managed to, to
do that?
And has it been difficult incertain places or easier in
others?
Raffiah (06:37):
Um, it has been different in each country.
Where in Houston, I didn't haveany children.
Um, I studied real estate, whichwas a, A flexible option to
work.
and that community was, my, mygo-to.
And um, I kept busy as well.
But each country is different asyou have children, you connect
(07:00):
with, with parents as well asthe company itself that my
husband works for.
There is, a built in communitybecause you have other expats
from that same company.
And, there is a group of,spouses that you can connect,
but it depends on the locationand how active they are.
Uh, so, so yes.
Clare (07:17):
Right.
And so you were saying inHouston, just now, in Houston be
you didn't have children and sothe way that you were able to
connect with the community wasactually through working
yourself, right?
And, and then later as a parent,it's more through the children.
Was there ever a part where.
It was hard for you to find thatcommunity.
(07:40):
Was there ever a time where youwere actually a bit more
isolated and lonely?
Raffiah (07:45):
There
Clare (07:46):
Yeah.
Raffiah (07:46):
specific country yeah.
So when we moved to Egypt, myfirst child was only 10 months.
And, um, it's a country, thelanguage is different.
Um, and, we lived in a hotel.
Literally for almost threemonths.
Clare (08:04):
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (08:08):
yes.
That was a very lonely, period.
And, you know, having a 10 monthold, you know, she's at the age
where she's very active.
She started to eat solids andnow you're in a new country and
you're trying to find, you know,the foods and everything.
So it,
Clare (08:23):
Yeah.
Raffiah (08:24):
and my husband, obviously, it's a, it's a new
country.
It's a new position.
So he was busy at work.
Right.
Um.
So That was one of the countriesand the, the period of time that
was very lonely, um, not able toconnect with others.
Yeah.
Clare (08:40):
And so in those times when, when you felt like that,
and may, maybe that's happenedat other times too.
How do you help yourself, likehow do you cope with it?
Raffiah (08:52):
Well, you know what?
Initially for that period oftime, it, it so happened that I
was in an online group for moms,because I had just had
Clare (09:03):
Mm-hmm.
so we were
Raffiah (09:04):
all pregnant at the same time.
And funny enough, they were the,they were the ones that I leaned
on online.
Clare (09:12):
Oh, amazing.
Okay.
Raffiah (09:14):
Yeah.
And then, um, but you know, justkeeping busy with this toddler,
at that time, you know,
Clare (09:21):
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (09:23):
trying to be creative, um, and keeping her active.
Not letting her, you know,suffer in any way because it's
also a move for her.
Thankfully with little ones,once they're with you, they're,
you know, they're contented.
But, at that time with, withthat's when I realized I really
(09:45):
liked doing, Creative learningactivities because there wasn't
anything that I
Clare (09:50):
Ah.
could
Raffiah (09:50):
reach out to.
So I used to actually createsimple things for her to keep
her busy and to keep her mindbusy.
You know, you didn't want themalways on a screen or you know,
something like that.
So that's when, I think that'sthe initial time I started to do
the creative learning.
Clare (10:08):
Oh wow.
That's really interesting.
So, just for the listeners, givea bit of context to that.
You're talking about, you'restarting this journey, so just
explain that a little bit more.
Raffiah (10:19):
Yes, So throughout, you know, throughout many, many
moves, um, I needed to keep my,my sanity, and creativity is
usually my go-to thing, which Irealized.
And, I have a Instagram accountthat I've continued and it's
called Keep Us Busy Moms.
And it, it has
Clare (10:39):
Right.
Raffiah (10:40):
It has evolved from each country and the needs of my
children or the needs of, of thecommunity around.
And it's you basically, um, Icreate, these learning
activities for the age group ofthree to six because.
at, eventually in one country.
I did study early, childhoodbecause I realized I liked it.
Clare (11:00):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (11:01):
yeah.
So through this Instagram, thishas kept me from country to
country, uh, going.
'cause I was able to createdifferent activities for
children, especially in theexpat community where you have
moms, you know, seeking outdifferent ways to keep their
children, productive and busy.
Clare (11:20):
Yeah,
Raffiah (11:21):
And
Clare (11:21):
absolutely.
Raffiah (11:21):
some moms traveling.
You have so many expats.
You are on a plane with atoddler, what do you do?
You
Clare (11:29):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (11:30):
Yeah, so it's different avenues and I enjoyed
it and it, gives me a source ofcalming to create.
So it started way back then andI didn't know, and now, yeah,
it's been almost 20 years now,so, Yeah.
Clare (11:45):
that's really, that's really interesting.
So it sort of started, it soundslike, out of a need, you know,
in terms of for stimulation anddevelopment for your daughter.
But actually you tapped intosomething that was really,
beneficial for you too, in termsof being absorbed and engaged in
it,
Raffiah (12:03):
yes, and now,
Clare (12:04):
it's actually evolved even more because it's part of
that reinvention of you.
Over the years?
Yeah.
Raffiah (12:11):
It just started organically, you know, it just
started and grew, on its own, so
Clare (12:18):
So, you know, Raffiah you're talking about reinventing
yourself and, and gettinginvolved in something else that
a arose out of a need.
How has this globally mobilejourney actually impacted your
career as a whole?
Raffiah (12:36):
Well, you know, as you move countries, it's very
difficult for, one to keep acareer going if one spouse is,
very involved in their job.
So, um, it was very difficult tokeep a career going.
But every country I did try tohave something, for me.
(12:57):
So as I said in Houston,
Clare (12:58):
Right.
Raffiah (12:59):
um, I did real estate, you know, which was flexible
enough.
Um, I was, I had there inHouston and I still went to the
office'cause I had a few housesI had to close.
And, you know,
Clare (13:12):
Oh my gosh.
Raffiah (13:14):
um, I.
Yeah, was three weeks old.
I had to go back to the officeto do paperwork.
She's, she was sleeping and Iwas, was there
Clare (13:23):
Oh my goodness.
Raffiah (13:26):
doing some paperwork.
And then, you know, differentcountries, um.
I got involved in differentthings and that's when I studied
the early childhood and I reallygot involved with that.
So I was able to work in,kindergarten, in one country,
um, in pre-K in another country.
So
Clare (13:43):
Mm-hmm.
it was not a consistent
Raffiah (13:44):
career, but as I said, I tried to invest in myself as
much as I could along the way.
Uh, I wish I did more.
Clare (13:51):
Hmm.
Raffiah (13:51):
Um.
But, yeah, so I would, anybodythat's now getting into the
whole expat move, try to always,invest if you, if you have a
child and study something, youknow, always keep that, CV going
so that, um, you still havesomething for you.
Clare (14:11):
Yeah, and I think a lot of people will be able to relate
to that.
Um, kind of journey of not beingable to do what they maybe
originally studied for or, youknow, the previous jobs that
they had or the career is gonnalook different and trying to,
trying to get your head aroundthat and also problem solve it
(14:32):
and change path.
Um, so thanks a lot for sharingthat.
Hmm.
I wanna ask you another thingabout yourself, and then we'll
talk about your kids in aminute.
But,, you know, you're goingthrough these moves, you've gone
through several of these moves,and, and I think in your case,
you, you have a rough idea thatthat's coming, that a change is
(14:54):
coming, but how do you.
Cope with that change that, um,the constancy of change and
that, you know, everywhere yougo it's time limited.
Raffiah (15:08):
You know, although I know the move is coming, it
sometimes limits you in thelocation you're at'cause you
Clare (15:15):
Mm,
Raffiah (15:15):
you're gonna move.
So
Clare (15:17):
right.
Raffiah (15:17):
negative.
But when I know the move iscoming.
What what gets me more, um,focused is being organized.
Like
Clare (15:30):
Right.
Raffiah (15:30):
for each move I will have a notebook, that's when I
get myself organized in everypossible aspect.
Um.
I guess just, you know, keepingmyself, structured in,
Clare (15:47):
Hmm
Raffiah (15:48):
um, helps me.
Yeah.
Clare (15:51):
So you're thinking very practically there, but there,
are there ever, was there ever atime or has there been times
when you've just felt, Ugh, I'msick of moving.
I actually just want to stay inthis country where wherever you
were now, I don't want to keepmoving.
Have you ever felt like that?
Raffiah (16:12):
Yes, yes.
But you know, uh, you know whatI realize and I think it's just
because this is what we've donefor so long.
Even my older one has said thismany times, after two to four
years,'cause we're alwaysmoving, we get this itch like,
Clare (16:27):
Ah, right.
Raffiah (16:27):
We've been here quite a while.
Clare (16:29):
Yeah.
Raffiah (16:30):
so it's like, it's like expected.
Clare (16:34):
Okay.
Raffiah (16:34):
many times, many times you, you think of you gotta, you
know, pick up and move.
Like you just wish you couldsnap your fingers and reach the,
the next location.
Um, yeah.
Clare (16:45):
Right, because it's that process as well, like moving,
there's so much on either end,isn't there, you know, all the
stuff that you do before themove and then all that sort of
stuff afterwards.
And I'm not just talking aboutthe logistics, but also the um.
Starting over again, right?
Raffiah (17:03):
You are starting over, you know, each, each country.
Even this move to Dubai,although we've lived here
before, it's, it's all startingover'cause it's been 12 years
and it's, it's like a brand newDubai.
So it is all starting over andthen, you know, the children are
a different age, it's differentthings that you will have to
(17:24):
look into.
Yeah.
Clare (17:27):
Yeah, of course.
So let's think about the kidsfor a second.
'cause I know you said nowthey're 18 and 11.
So how have they responded tothis lifestyle of, of moving to
each place and, and obviouslythey've been born into it and
they've grown up with it, sothey don't know any different
(17:47):
per se, but I'm thinking just interms of how do you support
them.
In the adjustments.
And are there any particularchallenges that, that you've had
or they've had, along thatprocess?
Raffiah (18:03):
Um, you know.
To support the children it's,different in each country and,
uh, it's different at each, agethat they're, they're at, you
Clare (18:13):
Yes, of course.
Raffiah (18:14):
Yes.
You know, when they're younger,they move with me.
You know,
Clare (18:18):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (18:19):
Whatever mommy says or mommy does.
And, and for me to, to make surethat they are comfortable, you
know, I, I try to keep some sortof consistency.
So creativity is something Ialways go to.
You know, if I see they arebeing stressed, you know, we'll
go to a cafe and I always have abag of stuff.
(18:42):
It's always creative stuff.
It's like a, a little pack ofcrayons, a little, um, just
plain paper as well.
'cause you could do so much withplain paper.
You can play, tic tac toe, youcan play, that game boy girl
animal thing.
You can draw something.
You know.
That is so key to just forgetabout everything around.
(19:05):
So with the children, um,
Clare (19:08):
Hmm.
Raffiah (19:09):
with a move, that's what I, I try to do as well as
with a move as they get older, Iwould then get them involved.
I would tell them, okay, what doyou want your next bedroom to,
to be like?
You know, do you want a specificcolor?
You know, so when you get theminvolved.
The, as they get older, it alsohelps them to, to look ahead
(19:31):
rather than to look back whatthey leaving.
Clare (19:35):
Yeah.
Oh, I love those examples.
You just gave me the, you know,having the things just to be in
the moment.
Raffiah (19:42):
Yes.
Clare (19:42):
I love that kind of, playfulness of that too.
The creativity, the playfulness.
'cause it's a lovely way.
To cultivate the connection,right?
And I also love, um, involvingthem in having that agency over
what this move might look likefor them in terms of their
surroundings and theirenvironment.
(20:03):
I love that Giving them somechoice a little bit control over
it because you know, the kids,they can't control the move.
It's already set in stone forthem that this is happening and
they don't get that choice.
So along the way, it's lovelythat they're able to have some
choices and obviously it's.
According to their developmentallevel too.
(20:26):
Right.
So I, I love that.
Um, you mentioned that you'refrom Trinidad, so I'm thinking
that there's probably got somereally rich heritage around
that.
So.
How, if, if you have, have youkept that kind of going in terms
of, exposing your children tothat or keeping that culture
(20:48):
alive?
Have you been doing that at all?
Raffiah (20:52):
So,, I try to keep things consistent with, you
know, whatever country we in.
try to keep up.
Certain, uh, traditions, youknow, different times of the
year if it's So Trinidad we havecarnival, right?
And during the carnival time, Iwould do the, uh, a craft where
they will create a costume and,uh, I remember in one country I
(21:17):
actually involved the wholecommunity.
Clare (21:20):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (21:21):
whole community, you know, I did a arts and craft
table, so all the children wereable to do some sort of costume,
and then we literally walkedaround the community.
It was like 20 children.
So,
Clare (21:35):
Oh, that's amazing.
Raffiah (21:38):
even for Easter, I would have, you know,, Easter
egg hunts and activities forthem Christmas time.
So I try to keep that consistentin whichever country we're in.
Um,
Clare (21:51):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (21:51):
Just so that the the children will have some sort of,
you know, something to lookforward to, Yeah.
Even, even Valentine's.
Clare (21:59):
Oh
Raffiah (21:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Clare (22:01):
I love that.
So you've kept up withcelebrating your heritage.
Do you go back there in thesummer?
Raffiah (22:09):
Yes.
Uh, we try to, it depends onwhich location or if we've just
done a move.
So if it,
Clare (22:14):
Right?
Of course.
Raffiah (22:15):
during the summer, we'll try to go for Christmas.
Um, my husband's family is alsoin Toronto, so we would, you
know, probably do, Toronto andthen down to Trinidad.
So, yeah, I mean, my childrenlove the beach, you know, it's,
Clare (22:27):
Yeah.
Raffiah (22:28):
They're really beach people.
So, uh, we're all beach people,so, yeah.
that's, um.
That is, we try to do a trip as
Clare (22:36):
Hmm.
Raffiah (22:37):
as much as we can.
Clare (22:38):
And, when you go back, to Trinidad, does it feel different
to the kids?
Like did they feel connected tothe place and do you still feel
as connected to the place?
Raffiah (22:51):
I, I don't feel as connected to the place because
it feels like, you know.
I have moved on globally, whichI have
Clare (23:00):
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Raffiah (23:03):
yeah.
Whereas, um, a lot of peoplestill, they're in the island
feel of things.
So
Clare (23:09):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (23:10):
back to this island feel and, and my kids enjoy that
island feel.
'cause we always go to the beachand, you know, we're in the pool
and, you know, I think everybodycould say when they go back to
their country, food is,something that will always
connect you.
So we
Clare (23:27):
Yeah.
Raffiah (23:27):
of local foods and, and fruits and, and that's why I
introduced the girls as well.
You know, try to introduce themto all the local, foods.
Um, just
Clare (23:36):
of course.
Raffiah (23:37):
drinking coconut water of a coconut.
You know,
Clare (23:39):
Oh, amazing.
Yeah.
Raffiah (23:42):
Yeah.
Clare (23:42):
Yeah.
Sounds amazing.
I think that's the thing, isn'tit?
Like, uh, the longer you stayaway and the more places that
you're at in between where youare from really takes on a sort
of a different identity, doesn'tit?
You know?
There's a familiar, and then italso becomes less familiar in a
(24:03):
way too.
Mm-hmm.
Have you had to do anythingspecific or have you done
anything specific to preparethem for a potential move, you
know, in, in terms of lettingthem know how you frame it and,
you know, managing any concernsthat they have expressed about a
(24:27):
move, whether it's before themove or after the move.
Raffiah (24:31):
Well, you know.
I try to hint it to them.
So once I, once my husband tellsme, okay, this, this may be
happening.
I don't tell them in, I don'ttell them get-go
Clare (24:43):
Right.
Raffiah (24:44):
I just hinted to them.
Um, whereas, you know, we'vebeen here this country for how
many years and you know.
Clare (24:52):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (24:54):
They, you know, there may be a move coming up until
it's like solid set in stone, myhusband got the letter, then I
will tell them, okay, this iswhere we will be moving.
Let's, let's view the areas,let's, so then, because they're
older, I would sit with them.
We would look at schools in thearea.
(25:15):
We would, look at houses.
My older one loves to look athouses like its her thing.
Clare (25:19):
Oh, right.
Yeah.
Raffiah (25:22):
Um, so.
So that that really distractthem.
Distract them about just, oh, wehave to pick up and move.
That's where I get theminvolved.
Um, it's such a short timeframefrom when they know we're moving
and when we start to plan andthen we have to, then they have
to, to go through their bedroomsand see what we could spring
(25:45):
clean, which is, you know,always a good thing.
So, yes.
So it's.
Clare (25:49):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (25:50):
It's a short timeframe from when I inform them for
sure.
And then, you know, everythingstarts rolling.
Yeah.
Clare (26:00):
Right.
And I'm guessing at some pointyou've probably had to deal
with, you know, emotions aroundthe move or that experience of
settling in and, you know,worries about, um, leaving
friendships behind and that kindof thing.
How have you managed to dealwith that?
Raffiah (26:19):
So at a younger age, it doesn't affect them as much,
but I find when, when they'recloser to the age of 10,
Clare (26:25):
they
Raffiah (26:25):
really make.
good f riendship bonds, closebonds
Clare (26:28):
Mm
Raffiah (26:29):
So, um, so I remember my second one, um, I introduced
journaling to her.
Clare (26:38):
oh lovely.
Raffiah (26:39):
I Yeah, but she was around six or seven for that
move when I introduced it.
So she didn't, you know, writingwas not big, you know, part of
her, so she would use basicwords and I gave her a book of
stickers, like I specificallyfound stickers where she could
incorporate it in her journalingto express herself
Clare (26:59):
Mm.
Raffiah (27:00):
herself.
And that was one way.
That I found helped her, youknow,
Clare (27:06):
I love that.
we will actually
Raffiah (27:07):
sit, sit together, um, you know, and we will journal.
And then when she got older,when she was like nine, 10, she
was writing, A page every nightabout her day.
'cause we had just moved to thecountry and, for a year she did
that.
So I, I felt for her and herpersonality, it worked.
(27:30):
very much, the journaling.
Yeah.
Clare (27:33):
Does she still do that?
Raffiah (27:36):
She does not journal, but what she does now, sometimes
before she goes to bed, she willjust color or she will draw
something or she will justdoodle.
So she does that at the end ofthe day
Clare (27:50):
Uh
Raffiah (27:50):
goes to bed.
Clare (27:52):
oh, that's really good.
That's a great habit to getinto.
You mentioned the Trinidad,festivals, but do you have any
things like objects that youalways bring from place to
place?
Raffiah (28:06):
You know, there's not really any object.
We bring our flag.
Clare (28:11):
Yeah.
Oh, that's good.
Raffiah (28:13):
The girls do have something that they, they would
keep because
Clare (28:18):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (28:18):
a trunk that they will keep things specifically from
that country.
So there's not really one objectthat's per se, um, that we, we
move country to country witheach each child.
They do have their ownspecifics, you know, for
example, went through so manyschools, she had so many
(28:39):
uniforms.
What I did for her, heruniforms, uh, the, the badge
from her uniforms,
Clare (28:46):
Yeah.
Raffiah (28:47):
was able to get like a small quilt with
Clare (28:50):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (28:51):
The, badges.
So she has that as a keepsakeand, you
Clare (28:54):
Oh yeah.
That's really nice.
Yeah.
Raffiah (28:56):
It's a nice memorabilia.
Um, but yeah, that's what wehave
Clare (29:02):
Yeah.
Raffiah (29:03):
each country.
Clare (29:05):
Okay.
this trend that was going aroundTikTok and Instagram a while
ago, if you could take youryounger self to coffee, so think
about the Raffiah that wasmoving to Houston, maybe.
Raffiah (29:19):
Mm-hmm.
Clare (29:20):
20 years ago, what would you tell Raffiah of 20 years ago
if you took yourself for coffee?
I'd love to know.
Raffiah (29:31):
Yeah, that, that's a very, very good question because
you know, um.
You, you are moving countries,um, for the benefit of your
family and you know, yourhusband's job.
And, um, you could get lost init.
You know, everybody hassomething.
My husband has his job, which isconsistent.
(29:53):
My children have their school,which, you know, that's
different schools, but it'sconsistent.
What I would really tell myselfis that you need to always
invest in yourself.
You can't forget about you.
You're not just a wife, andyou're not just a mother.
You know, you have to alwaysinvest in yourself and you know,
(30:13):
in any way that you can, takethat time to invest in yourself.
Clare (30:19):
Oh, I love that so much.
That is such a good reflection.
And you're so right.
You know, like we, we get caughtup in the different roles that
we have but there's more to usthan just the roles and who
we're looking after, right?
Who we're taking care of.
So I love that.
(30:39):
I think that it's such a goodinvestment to keep being
engaged, keep learning, keepdoing the things that bring us
joy, or just exploring thethings that give us joy.
and then just if you were goingto give your top tips, to help
parents who are supporting theirkids through these international
(31:04):
moves, it may not be as many asyou, but just even, you know,
through a move, what would you,advise?
What would you tell parents?
Raffiah (31:17):
Um, you have to listen to your children.
You, you have to read yourchildren and, you know, I think
most, um, most parents who arewith their children all the
time,
Clare (31:30):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (31:31):
do that, you know, so you need to read your children,
you need to be able to let themexpress themselves.
My, my girls are very different.
I need to read what
Clare (31:41):
Right,
Raffiah (31:42):
will work for one and what will work for the other
one.
You cannot just say, okay, yes,we're doing this, or, um, it, it
doesn't, it doesn't help.
It just, it makes them, uh, shutdown more.
So I would, say
Clare (31:55):
right.
read
Raffiah (31:56):
your children and, um, do something out of the, the
norm of the move.
Do something that's a littlemore calming,, even if it's just
if there is a park in the area,if there is a cafe, it depends
on what your child, um, wouldfeel comfortable or calming to
(32:16):
them.
Clare (32:16):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (32:18):
Routine is very difficult, but if there is
something that you're accustomedto, to do, uh, in your last
location, you know, try and dothat in your new location.
I also recommend having themkeep in contact with the last
friends, that they have,
Clare (32:35):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (32:37):
When sometimes you move and there's a time change.
So when we moved here, there wasa time change to England, uh,
three hours, my daughter wouldstill, I would allow her to wake
up until nine so she could stillspeak to her friends because
they still need thatconversation and just, you know,
to be involved
Clare (32:57):
Yeah, because
Raffiah (32:58):
the new location
Clare (32:59):
absolutely.
Raffiah (33:00):
They're not connected with anyone as yet.
so, and I always try to have aget together, uh, with their, in
their last location with theirfriends.
Something that, you know, thatthey all remember and, and you
know, not, not something on theoutside.
I like home, home parties.
I like parties in the housewhere they could really connect.
(33:21):
And so I would do that.
Yeah.
Clare (33:23):
I love those suggestions.
So just to sort of recap,
Raffiah (33:27):
yes.
Clare (33:27):
So you're talking about tuning into your child.
Amazing.
Giving them some consistency.
In their routines, if possible,finding ways to help them, um,
reset.
I think it sounds like you'resaying going to the park or
doing something creative ifneeded.
(33:47):
Um, and then really emphasizingthat keeping in touch.
And also I love that what youjust said about marking, you
know, having some kind ofcelebration as they're leaving.
So really sort of marking, thattransition.
Because it, it is a big deal tomove from one country to another
and acknowledging that with ourkids, we don't have to sweep it
(34:10):
under the carpet and pretendit's not happening, and
everything will be easy andfine.
Raffiah (34:14):
Yeah.
I think a lot of people, youknow, they, they like to say the
phrase that children areresilient.
Clare (34:21):
Mm.
Raffiah (34:21):
I don't, I don't believe children are resilient.
Every child's personality isdifferent and they will take a
move.
I mean, we've moved so manytimes and it's, it's, it's still
a move, know, it's still a newplace.
Still a new country.
It's new culture.
Children are not resilient, butif you help them with the move
(34:41):
and you help them along the way,right, it makes the move, um,
easier for them.
They will still have fears, theywill still be anxious, you know,
it's up to the immediate familyaround for us to all ease them
into it, I believe.
Your child will need to knowthat this is, and, it's a good
(35:02):
life lesson where, um, it's adifficult time, but you're going
to get through on the other end.
You know, it's not like a snapof your finger.
It's like, yeah, we're gonnamove.
It's teaching the child, it's aprocess.
And after this right, we willget to the other end.
And in anything you try oranything you do, you know, it's
(35:24):
a process.
Life goes up and down you justhave to know that how you deal
with it along the way helps youget to the other end.
Clare (35:35):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Raffiah,.
You're right.
When we support our kids withthe ups and the downs because
there will be, we don't need tosave them or rescue them from
the adversity as such, or thechallenge.
But it's supporting them throughit and also letting them know
that they're capable.
(35:57):
And you, you see that?
Yes.
Oh, you are capable of doingthis, you will get to the other
side.
Raffiah (36:01):
You gotta be their cheerleader
Clare (36:02):
So,
Raffiah (36:03):
That's, you know,
Clare (36:04):
Hmm,
Raffiah (36:05):
in life.
I, you
Clare (36:07):
Hmm.
Oh, absolutely.
Well.
Raffiah, thank you so much forchatting today.
This has been so insightful.
I loved your reflections.
I loved the things that you toldus about and these experiences,
and I think, I'm sure that a lotof the listeners will be able to
(36:29):
relate to this in some way.
And, you know, help them withany upcoming transitions or help
them reflect on some of themoves that they've had.
Uh, so that's been reallylovely.
Thank you so much, Raffiah
Raffiah (36:44):
Well, thank you so much for having me this was an
enjoyable chat.
So thank you so much forlistening to this conversation
and thanks to Rafia for sharingher experiences so openly.
If anything in this episodesparked something for you, I'd
love to hear about it.
You can find me on Instagram atglobally thriving, or you can
(37:09):
reach out to me on my website.
Globally thriving.com Also, ifyou are curious about parent
coaching and if it might beright for you, you can book a
free 20 minute call via the linkin the show notes, and we can
have a no pressure conversationjust to find out more about it.
Thanks for listening.
See you next time.
Are you a parent or caregiverraising your child
internationally?
Are you curious about how tonurture your child's
development?
But find all the parentinginformation out there confusing?
If so, you are in the rightplace.
Welcome to the Globally ThrivingFamilies Podcast.
I'm your host, Clare O'Byrne, aparent coach and occupational
(00:28):
therapist with a passion forsupporting children and their
families for more than 25 years.
Whether it's understanding howto build resilience to practical
tips for language development,screen time challenges, and
staying calm amongst the chaos,Globally Thriving Families is
here to help.
(00:48):
Join me as we explore the topicsthat give you the insights and
guidance you need to supportyour children to thrive.
No matter where your family'sadventures take you.
Hi there.
Welcome back to GloballyThriving Families, and this week
(01:11):
I am excited because I got tosit down with my friend Raffiah,
whom I met about eight years agoin Kuwait.
And she has moved eight times in20 years and has raised her kids
in the process.
So we had a great conversationabout some of the experiences
she's had and what she's learnedalong the way about herself and
(01:36):
her kids.
So if you've ever wondered abouthow constant transitions, shape
parenting and our sense ofidentity, then this episode is
for you.
So here goes.
Clare (01:49):
Hi Raffiah.
Welcome.
Raffiah (01:52):
Hello.
Thanks having me.
Clare (01:55):
Oh, thanks so much for being here.
I'm really excited to talk toyou today.
So, just to get started, for thelisteners, can you tell me a
little bit about your journey asa globally mobile parent?
You know a bit about thecountries that you've lived in
and, uh, bit about your familyright now.
Raffiah (02:15):
So I am originally from Trinidad and Tobago.
It's uh, twin Islands in theCaribbean.
And, um.
Growing up I never knew, I wouldever leave my tiny island.
Um, so when I got married, myhusband's job has us moving from
country to country and um, todate we've moved nine times.
(02:40):
So I can list you the countries
Clare (02:42):
Yes, definitely go for it.
Raffiah (02:44):
So from Trinidad our first move was, um, Houston and,
from Houston, Egypt.
Egypt to Oman, Oman Dubai, Dubaito Kuwait, Kuwait to Delhi
Gurgaon and then to England.
And now we're back in Dubai.
(03:05):
Yeah,
Clare (03:06):
Oh my goodness.
Wow.
That's a lot of places.
And what's the time span thatthat has happened in I.
Raffiah (03:17):
So that, so when we moved to Houston, that was in
2005.
Yes.
So since
Clare (03:26):
Okay.
Raffiah (03:26):
We've been on the move.
Yeah.
Clare (03:29):
A 20 year journey.
My goodness.
Raffiah (03:31):
25..
Yeah.
Clare (03:33):
You have, you have two kids, right?
So how old is the oldest?
Raffiah (03:39):
So she's my first.
So she was born when we moved toHouston.
She's 18, she'll be 19 thisyear.
And then she is 11, she'll be 12soon.
She was actually born in Dubaithe last time we lived here.
Clare (03:57):
Right.
Raffiah (03:57):
big age gap, but yeah, two
Clare (03:59):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
I want you to think back to thefirst move that you made from
Trinidad to Houston.
Can you remember how you felt atthe time and what that first
experience was like?
I.
Raffiah (04:16):
Yes.
That, was a shock to my system,to my whole way of life because,
you know, living in Trinidad,working, you it's very different
So I left my job in Trinidad.
We moved to Houston, um, and youknow, there's nobody that you
(04:38):
know, so everything is all new.
The area's all new.
Um, it was the loss of,independence that was big for
me.
Um, I think that was thebiggest, thing, the loss of
independence because, you know,um, something simple as opening
(04:58):
a bank account, having your owncredit card, you know, it's.
Clare (05:02):
Hmm.
Raffiah (05:02):
Because you don't have a job.
And I used to work in the bankfor over 8 years, so it was,
Clare (05:07):
Yeah.
Raffiah (05:08):
It was really a shock.
So then, you know, you have tothink about, okay, how, how do I
move on from this?
And, you know, my husband, thenext day we landed actually in
Houston, he, he went off shore.
So I was literally left on myown.
Clare (05:23):
Really?
How long did he go for thatfirst trip?
Raffiah (05:28):
I think it was about a week.
Clare (05:30):
Yeah.
Raffiah (05:31):
About a week.
yeah.
But you know, you can't sit anddo nothing, you know, uh,
Trinidad and, Houston, theydrive on different sides of the
road.
So my first thing was, okay, letme jump in the, the car, the
rental, and start driving.
Let's, let's see how far I cango.
There was a mall down the road,so, you know, it, it's the
(05:51):
little things that you need tostart doing to integrate, into
your new environment.
But, the lack of independence.
Um, yeah, that was the biggest,as well as, you know, it's, it's
a very lonely time each move.
It is a lonely time
Clare (06:09):
Yeah.
Raffiah (06:10):
and have to put
Clare (06:10):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (06:11):
yourself out there to, connect.
Clare (06:15):
Yeah.
So speaking of that, each timeyou've moved and you've had to
kind of start again in terms ofconnecting or finding that
community that you need, howhave you actually managed to, to
do that?
And has it been difficult incertain places or easier in
others?
Raffiah (06:37):
Um, it has been different in each country.
Where in Houston, I didn't haveany children.
Um, I studied real estate, whichwas a, A flexible option to
work.
and that community was, my, mygo-to.
And um, I kept busy as well.
But each country is different asyou have children, you connect
(07:00):
with, with parents as well asthe company itself that my
husband works for.
There is, a built in communitybecause you have other expats
from that same company.
And, there is a group of,spouses that you can connect,
but it depends on the locationand how active they are.
Uh, so, so yes.
Clare (07:17):
Right.
And so you were saying inHouston, just now, in Houston be
you didn't have children and sothe way that you were able to
connect with the community wasactually through working
yourself, right?
And, and then later as a parent,it's more through the children.
Was there ever a part where.
It was hard for you to find thatcommunity.
(07:40):
Was there ever a time where youwere actually a bit more
isolated and lonely?
Raffiah (07:45):
There
Clare (07:46):
Yeah.
Raffiah (07:46):
specific country yeah.
So when we moved to Egypt, myfirst child was only 10 months.
And, um, it's a country, thelanguage is different.
Um, and, we lived in a hotel.
Literally for almost threemonths.
Clare (08:04):
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (08:08):
yes.
That was a very lonely, period.
And, you know, having a 10 monthold, you know, she's at the age
where she's very active.
She started to eat solids andnow you're in a new country and
you're trying to find, you know,the foods and everything.
So it,
Clare (08:23):
Yeah.
Raffiah (08:24):
and my husband, obviously, it's a, it's a new
country.
It's a new position.
So he was busy at work.
Right.
Um.
So That was one of the countriesand the, the period of time that
was very lonely, um, not able toconnect with others.
Yeah.
Clare (08:40):
And so in those times when, when you felt like that,
and may, maybe that's happenedat other times too.
How do you help yourself, likehow do you cope with it?
Raffiah (08:52):
Well, you know what?
Initially for that period oftime, it, it so happened that I
was in an online group for moms,because I had just had
Clare (09:03):
Mm-hmm.
so we were
Raffiah (09:04):
all pregnant at the same time.
And funny enough, they were the,they were the ones that I leaned
on online.
Clare (09:12):
Oh, amazing.
Okay.
Raffiah (09:14):
Yeah.
And then, um, but you know, justkeeping busy with this toddler,
at that time, you know,
Clare (09:21):
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (09:23):
trying to be creative, um, and keeping her active.
Not letting her, you know,suffer in any way because it's
also a move for her.
Thankfully with little ones,once they're with you, they're,
you know, they're contented.
But, at that time with, withthat's when I realized I really
(09:45):
liked doing, Creative learningactivities because there wasn't
anything that I
Clare (09:50):
Ah.
could
Raffiah (09:50):
reach out to.
So I used to actually createsimple things for her to keep
her busy and to keep her mindbusy.
You know, you didn't want themalways on a screen or you know,
something like that.
So that's when, I think that'sthe initial time I started to do
the creative learning.
Clare (10:08):
Oh wow.
That's really interesting.
So, just for the listeners, givea bit of context to that.
You're talking about, you'restarting this journey, so just
explain that a little bit more.
Raffiah (10:19):
Yes, So throughout, you know, throughout many, many
moves, um, I needed to keep my,my sanity, and creativity is
usually my go-to thing, which Irealized.
And, I have a Instagram accountthat I've continued and it's
called Keep Us Busy Moms.
And it, it has
Clare (10:39):
Right.
Raffiah (10:40):
It has evolved from each country and the needs of my
children or the needs of, of thecommunity around.
And it's you basically, um, Icreate, these learning
activities for the age group ofthree to six because.
at, eventually in one country.
I did study early, childhoodbecause I realized I liked it.
Clare (11:00):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (11:01):
yeah.
So through this Instagram, thishas kept me from country to
country, uh, going.
'cause I was able to createdifferent activities for
children, especially in theexpat community where you have
moms, you know, seeking outdifferent ways to keep their
children, productive and busy.
Clare (11:20):
Yeah,
Raffiah (11:21):
And
Clare (11:21):
absolutely.
Raffiah (11:21):
some moms traveling.
You have so many expats.
You are on a plane with atoddler, what do you do?
You
Clare (11:29):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (11:30):
Yeah, so it's different avenues and I enjoyed
it and it, gives me a source ofcalming to create.
So it started way back then andI didn't know, and now, yeah,
it's been almost 20 years now,so, Yeah.
Clare (11:45):
that's really, that's really interesting.
So it sort of started, it soundslike, out of a need, you know,
in terms of for stimulation anddevelopment for your daughter.
But actually you tapped intosomething that was really,
beneficial for you too, in termsof being absorbed and engaged in
it,
Raffiah (12:03):
yes, and now,
Clare (12:04):
it's actually evolved even more because it's part of
that reinvention of you.
Over the years?
Yeah.
Raffiah (12:11):
It just started organically, you know, it just
started and grew, on its own, so
Clare (12:18):
So, you know, Raffiah you're talking about reinventing
yourself and, and gettinginvolved in something else that
a arose out of a need.
How has this globally mobilejourney actually impacted your
career as a whole?
Raffiah (12:36):
Well, you know, as you move countries, it's very
difficult for, one to keep acareer going if one spouse is,
very involved in their job.
So, um, it was very difficult tokeep a career going.
But every country I did try tohave something, for me.
(12:57):
So as I said in Houston,
Clare (12:58):
Right.
Raffiah (12:59):
um, I did real estate, you know, which was flexible
enough.
Um, I was, I had there inHouston and I still went to the
office'cause I had a few housesI had to close.
And, you know,
Clare (13:12):
Oh my gosh.
Raffiah (13:14):
um, I.
Yeah, was three weeks old.
I had to go back to the officeto do paperwork.
She's, she was sleeping and Iwas, was there
Clare (13:23):
Oh my goodness.
Raffiah (13:26):
doing some paperwork.
And then, you know, differentcountries, um.
I got involved in differentthings and that's when I studied
the early childhood and I reallygot involved with that.
So I was able to work in,kindergarten, in one country,
um, in pre-K in another country.
So
Clare (13:43):
Mm-hmm.
it was not a consistent
Raffiah (13:44):
career, but as I said, I tried to invest in myself as
much as I could along the way.
Uh, I wish I did more.
Clare (13:51):
Hmm.
Raffiah (13:51):
Um.
But, yeah, so I would, anybodythat's now getting into the
whole expat move, try to always,invest if you, if you have a
child and study something, youknow, always keep that, CV going
so that, um, you still havesomething for you.
Clare (14:11):
Yeah, and I think a lot of people will be able to relate
to that.
Um, kind of journey of not beingable to do what they maybe
originally studied for or, youknow, the previous jobs that
they had or the career is gonnalook different and trying to,
trying to get your head aroundthat and also problem solve it
(14:32):
and change path.
Um, so thanks a lot for sharingthat.
Hmm.
I wanna ask you another thingabout yourself, and then we'll
talk about your kids in aminute.
But,, you know, you're goingthrough these moves, you've gone
through several of these moves,and, and I think in your case,
you, you have a rough idea thatthat's coming, that a change is
(14:54):
coming, but how do you.
Cope with that change that, um,the constancy of change and
that, you know, everywhere yougo it's time limited.
Raffiah (15:08):
You know, although I know the move is coming, it
sometimes limits you in thelocation you're at'cause you
Clare (15:15):
Mm,
Raffiah (15:15):
you're gonna move.
So
Clare (15:17):
right.
Raffiah (15:17):
negative.
But when I know the move iscoming.
What what gets me more, um,focused is being organized.
Like
Clare (15:30):
Right.
Raffiah (15:30):
for each move I will have a notebook, that's when I
get myself organized in everypossible aspect.
Um.
I guess just, you know, keepingmyself, structured in,
Clare (15:47):
Hmm
Raffiah (15:48):
um, helps me.
Yeah.
Clare (15:51):
So you're thinking very practically there, but there,
are there ever, was there ever atime or has there been times
when you've just felt, Ugh, I'msick of moving.
I actually just want to stay inthis country where wherever you
were now, I don't want to keepmoving.
Have you ever felt like that?
Raffiah (16:12):
Yes, yes.
But you know, uh, you know whatI realize and I think it's just
because this is what we've donefor so long.
Even my older one has said thismany times, after two to four
years,'cause we're alwaysmoving, we get this itch like,
Clare (16:27):
Ah, right.
Raffiah (16:27):
We've been here quite a while.
Clare (16:29):
Yeah.
Raffiah (16:30):
so it's like, it's like expected.
Clare (16:34):
Okay.
Raffiah (16:34):
many times, many times you, you think of you gotta, you
know, pick up and move.
Like you just wish you couldsnap your fingers and reach the,
the next location.
Um, yeah.
Clare (16:45):
Right, because it's that process as well, like moving,
there's so much on either end,isn't there, you know, all the
stuff that you do before themove and then all that sort of
stuff afterwards.
And I'm not just talking aboutthe logistics, but also the um.
Starting over again, right?
Raffiah (17:03):
You are starting over, you know, each, each country.
Even this move to Dubai,although we've lived here
before, it's, it's all startingover'cause it's been 12 years
and it's, it's like a brand newDubai.
So it is all starting over andthen, you know, the children are
a different age, it's differentthings that you will have to
(17:24):
look into.
Yeah.
Clare (17:27):
Yeah, of course.
So let's think about the kidsfor a second.
'cause I know you said nowthey're 18 and 11.
So how have they responded tothis lifestyle of, of moving to
each place and, and obviouslythey've been born into it and
they've grown up with it, sothey don't know any different
(17:47):
per se, but I'm thinking just interms of how do you support
them.
In the adjustments.
And are there any particularchallenges that, that you've had
or they've had, along thatprocess?
Raffiah (18:03):
Um, you know.
To support the children it's,different in each country and,
uh, it's different at each, agethat they're, they're at, you
Clare (18:13):
Yes, of course.
Raffiah (18:14):
Yes.
You know, when they're younger,they move with me.
You know,
Clare (18:18):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (18:19):
Whatever mommy says or mommy does.
And, and for me to, to make surethat they are comfortable, you
know, I, I try to keep some sortof consistency.
So creativity is something Ialways go to.
You know, if I see they arebeing stressed, you know, we'll
go to a cafe and I always have abag of stuff.
(18:42):
It's always creative stuff.
It's like a, a little pack ofcrayons, a little, um, just
plain paper as well.
'cause you could do so much withplain paper.
You can play, tic tac toe, youcan play, that game boy girl
animal thing.
You can draw something.
You know.
That is so key to just forgetabout everything around.
(19:05):
So with the children, um,
Clare (19:08):
Hmm.
Raffiah (19:09):
with a move, that's what I, I try to do as well as
with a move as they get older, Iwould then get them involved.
I would tell them, okay, what doyou want your next bedroom to,
to be like?
You know, do you want a specificcolor?
You know, so when you get theminvolved.
The, as they get older, it alsohelps them to, to look ahead
(19:31):
rather than to look back whatthey leaving.
Clare (19:35):
Yeah.
Oh, I love those examples.
You just gave me the, you know,having the things just to be in
the moment.
Raffiah (19:42):
Yes.
Clare (19:42):
I love that kind of, playfulness of that too.
The creativity, the playfulness.
'cause it's a lovely way.
To cultivate the connection,right?
And I also love, um, involvingthem in having that agency over
what this move might look likefor them in terms of their
surroundings and theirenvironment.
(20:03):
I love that Giving them somechoice a little bit control over
it because you know, the kids,they can't control the move.
It's already set in stone forthem that this is happening and
they don't get that choice.
So along the way, it's lovelythat they're able to have some
choices and obviously it's.
According to their developmentallevel too.
(20:26):
Right.
So I, I love that.
Um, you mentioned that you'refrom Trinidad, so I'm thinking
that there's probably got somereally rich heritage around
that.
So.
How, if, if you have, have youkept that kind of going in terms
of, exposing your children tothat or keeping that culture
(20:48):
alive?
Have you been doing that at all?
Raffiah (20:52):
So,, I try to keep things consistent with, you
know, whatever country we in.
try to keep up.
Certain, uh, traditions, youknow, different times of the
year if it's So Trinidad we havecarnival, right?
And during the carnival time, Iwould do the, uh, a craft where
they will create a costume and,uh, I remember in one country I
(21:17):
actually involved the wholecommunity.
Clare (21:20):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (21:21):
whole community, you know, I did a arts and craft
table, so all the children wereable to do some sort of costume,
and then we literally walkedaround the community.
It was like 20 children.
So,
Clare (21:35):
Oh, that's amazing.
Raffiah (21:38):
even for Easter, I would have, you know,, Easter
egg hunts and activities forthem Christmas time.
So I try to keep that consistentin whichever country we're in.
Um,
Clare (21:51):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (21:51):
Just so that the the children will have some sort of,
you know, something to lookforward to, Yeah.
Even, even Valentine's.
Clare (21:59):
Oh
Raffiah (21:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Clare (22:01):
I love that.
So you've kept up withcelebrating your heritage.
Do you go back there in thesummer?
Raffiah (22:09):
Yes.
Uh, we try to, it depends onwhich location or if we've just
done a move.
So if it,
Clare (22:14):
Right?
Of course.
Raffiah (22:15):
during the summer, we'll try to go for Christmas.
Um, my husband's family is alsoin Toronto, so we would, you
know, probably do, Toronto andthen down to Trinidad.
So, yeah, I mean, my childrenlove the beach, you know, it's,
Clare (22:27):
Yeah.
Raffiah (22:28):
They're really beach people.
So, uh, we're all beach people,so, yeah.
that's, um.
That is, we try to do a trip as
Clare (22:36):
Hmm.
Raffiah (22:37):
as much as we can.
Clare (22:38):
And, when you go back, to Trinidad, does it feel different
to the kids?
Like did they feel connected tothe place and do you still feel
as connected to the place?
Raffiah (22:51):
I, I don't feel as connected to the place because
it feels like, you know.
I have moved on globally, whichI have
Clare (23:00):
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Raffiah (23:03):
yeah.
Whereas, um, a lot of peoplestill, they're in the island
feel of things.
So
Clare (23:09):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (23:10):
back to this island feel and, and my kids enjoy that
island feel.
'cause we always go to the beachand, you know, we're in the pool
and, you know, I think everybodycould say when they go back to
their country, food is,something that will always
connect you.
So we
Clare (23:27):
Yeah.
Raffiah (23:27):
of local foods and, and fruits and, and that's why I
introduced the girls as well.
You know, try to introduce themto all the local, foods.
Um, just
Clare (23:36):
of course.
Raffiah (23:37):
drinking coconut water of a coconut.
You know,
Clare (23:39):
Oh, amazing.
Yeah.
Raffiah (23:42):
Yeah.
Clare (23:42):
Yeah.
Sounds amazing.
I think that's the thing, isn'tit?
Like, uh, the longer you stayaway and the more places that
you're at in between where youare from really takes on a sort
of a different identity, doesn'tit?
You know?
There's a familiar, and then italso becomes less familiar in a
(24:03):
way too.
Mm-hmm.
Have you had to do anythingspecific or have you done
anything specific to preparethem for a potential move, you
know, in, in terms of lettingthem know how you frame it and,
you know, managing any concernsthat they have expressed about a
(24:27):
move, whether it's before themove or after the move.
Raffiah (24:31):
Well, you know.
I try to hint it to them.
So once I, once my husband tellsme, okay, this, this may be
happening.
I don't tell them in, I don'ttell them get-go
Clare (24:43):
Right.
Raffiah (24:44):
I just hinted to them.
Um, whereas, you know, we'vebeen here this country for how
many years and you know.
Clare (24:52):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (24:54):
They, you know, there may be a move coming up until
it's like solid set in stone, myhusband got the letter, then I
will tell them, okay, this iswhere we will be moving.
Let's, let's view the areas,let's, so then, because they're
older, I would sit with them.
We would look at schools in thearea.
(25:15):
We would, look at houses.
My older one loves to look athouses like its her thing.
Clare (25:19):
Oh, right.
Yeah.
Raffiah (25:22):
Um, so.
So that that really distractthem.
Distract them about just, oh, wehave to pick up and move.
That's where I get theminvolved.
Um, it's such a short timeframefrom when they know we're moving
and when we start to plan andthen we have to, then they have
to, to go through their bedroomsand see what we could spring
(25:45):
clean, which is, you know,always a good thing.
So, yes.
So it's.
Clare (25:49):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (25:50):
It's a short timeframe from when I inform them for
sure.
And then, you know, everythingstarts rolling.
Yeah.
Clare (26:00):
Right.
And I'm guessing at some pointyou've probably had to deal
with, you know, emotions aroundthe move or that experience of
settling in and, you know,worries about, um, leaving
friendships behind and that kindof thing.
How have you managed to dealwith that?
Raffiah (26:19):
So at a younger age, it doesn't affect them as much,
but I find when, when they'recloser to the age of 10,
Clare (26:25):
they
Raffiah (26:25):
really make.
good f riendship bonds, closebonds
Clare (26:28):
Mm
Raffiah (26:29):
So, um, so I remember my second one, um, I introduced
journaling to her.
Clare (26:38):
oh lovely.
Raffiah (26:39):
I Yeah, but she was around six or seven for that
move when I introduced it.
So she didn't, you know, writingwas not big, you know, part of
her, so she would use basicwords and I gave her a book of
stickers, like I specificallyfound stickers where she could
incorporate it in her journalingto express herself
Clare (26:59):
Mm.
Raffiah (27:00):
herself.
And that was one way.
That I found helped her, youknow,
Clare (27:06):
I love that.
we will actually
Raffiah (27:07):
sit, sit together, um, you know, and we will journal.
And then when she got older,when she was like nine, 10, she
was writing, A page every nightabout her day.
'cause we had just moved to thecountry and, for a year she did
that.
So I, I felt for her and herpersonality, it worked.
(27:30):
very much, the journaling.
Yeah.
Clare (27:33):
Does she still do that?
Raffiah (27:36):
She does not journal, but what she does now, sometimes
before she goes to bed, she willjust color or she will draw
something or she will justdoodle.
So she does that at the end ofthe day
Clare (27:50):
Uh
Raffiah (27:50):
goes to bed.
Clare (27:52):
oh, that's really good.
That's a great habit to getinto.
You mentioned the Trinidad,festivals, but do you have any
things like objects that youalways bring from place to
place?
Raffiah (28:06):
You know, there's not really any object.
We bring our flag.
Clare (28:11):
Yeah.
Oh, that's good.
Raffiah (28:13):
The girls do have something that they, they would
keep because
Clare (28:18):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (28:18):
a trunk that they will keep things specifically from
that country.
So there's not really one objectthat's per se, um, that we, we
move country to country witheach each child.
They do have their ownspecifics, you know, for
example, went through so manyschools, she had so many
(28:39):
uniforms.
What I did for her, heruniforms, uh, the, the badge
from her uniforms,
Clare (28:46):
Yeah.
Raffiah (28:47):
was able to get like a small quilt with
Clare (28:50):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (28:51):
The, badges.
So she has that as a keepsakeand, you
Clare (28:54):
Oh yeah.
That's really nice.
Yeah.
Raffiah (28:56):
It's a nice memorabilia.
Um, but yeah, that's what wehave
Clare (29:02):
Yeah.
Raffiah (29:03):
each country.
Clare (29:05):
Okay.
this trend that was going aroundTikTok and Instagram a while
ago, if you could take youryounger self to coffee, so think
about the Raffiah that wasmoving to Houston, maybe.
Raffiah (29:19):
Mm-hmm.
Clare (29:20):
20 years ago, what would you tell Raffiah of 20 years ago
if you took yourself for coffee?
I'd love to know.
Raffiah (29:31):
Yeah, that, that's a very, very good question because
you know, um.
You, you are moving countries,um, for the benefit of your
family and you know, yourhusband's job.
And, um, you could get lost init.
You know, everybody hassomething.
My husband has his job, which isconsistent.
(29:53):
My children have their school,which, you know, that's
different schools, but it'sconsistent.
What I would really tell myselfis that you need to always
invest in yourself.
You can't forget about you.
You're not just a wife, andyou're not just a mother.
You know, you have to alwaysinvest in yourself and you know,
(30:13):
in any way that you can, takethat time to invest in yourself.
Clare (30:19):
Oh, I love that so much.
That is such a good reflection.
And you're so right.
You know, like we, we get caughtup in the different roles that
we have but there's more to usthan just the roles and who
we're looking after, right?
Who we're taking care of.
So I love that.
(30:39):
I think that it's such a goodinvestment to keep being
engaged, keep learning, keepdoing the things that bring us
joy, or just exploring thethings that give us joy.
and then just if you were goingto give your top tips, to help
parents who are supporting theirkids through these international
(31:04):
moves, it may not be as many asyou, but just even, you know,
through a move, what would you,advise?
What would you tell parents?
Raffiah (31:17):
Um, you have to listen to your children.
You, you have to read yourchildren and, you know, I think
most, um, most parents who arewith their children all the
time,
Clare (31:30):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (31:31):
do that, you know, so you need to read your children,
you need to be able to let themexpress themselves.
My, my girls are very different.
I need to read what
Clare (31:41):
Right,
Raffiah (31:42):
will work for one and what will work for the other
one.
You cannot just say, okay, yes,we're doing this, or, um, it, it
doesn't, it doesn't help.
It just, it makes them, uh, shutdown more.
So I would, say
Clare (31:55):
right.
read
Raffiah (31:56):
your children and, um, do something out of the, the
norm of the move.
Do something that's a littlemore calming,, even if it's just
if there is a park in the area,if there is a cafe, it depends
on what your child, um, wouldfeel comfortable or calming to
(32:16):
them.
Clare (32:16):
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (32:18):
Routine is very difficult, but if there is
something that you're accustomedto, to do, uh, in your last
location, you know, try and dothat in your new location.
I also recommend having themkeep in contact with the last
friends, that they have,
Clare (32:35):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Raffiah (32:37):
When sometimes you move and there's a time change.
So when we moved here, there wasa time change to England, uh,
three hours, my daughter wouldstill, I would allow her to wake
up until nine so she could stillspeak to her friends because
they still need thatconversation and just, you know,
to be involved
Clare (32:57):
Yeah, because
Raffiah (32:58):
the new location
Clare (32:59):
absolutely.
Raffiah (33:00):
They're not connected with anyone as yet.
so, and I always try to have aget together, uh, with their, in
their last location with theirfriends.
Something that, you know, thatthey all remember and, and you
know, not, not something on theoutside.
I like home, home parties.
I like parties in the housewhere they could really connect.
(33:21):
And so I would do that.
Yeah.
Clare (33:23):
I love those suggestions.
So just to sort of recap,
Raffiah (33:27):
yes.
Clare (33:27):
So you're talking about tuning into your child.
Amazing.
Giving them some consistency.
In their routines, if possible,finding ways to help them, um,
reset.
I think it sounds like you'resaying going to the park or
doing something creative ifneeded.
(33:47):
Um, and then really emphasizingthat keeping in touch.
And also I love that what youjust said about marking, you
know, having some kind ofcelebration as they're leaving.
So really sort of marking, thattransition.
Because it, it is a big deal tomove from one country to another
and acknowledging that with ourkids, we don't have to sweep it
(34:10):
under the carpet and pretendit's not happening, and
everything will be easy andfine.
Raffiah (34:14):
Yeah.
I think a lot of people, youknow, they, they like to say the
phrase that children areresilient.
Clare (34:21):
Mm.
Raffiah (34:21):
I don't, I don't believe children are resilient.
Every child's personality isdifferent and they will take a
move.
I mean, we've moved so manytimes and it's, it's, it's still
a move, know, it's still a newplace.
Still a new country.
It's new culture.
Children are not resilient, butif you help them with the move
(34:41):
and you help them along the way,right, it makes the move, um,
easier for them.
They will still have fears, theywill still be anxious, you know,
it's up to the immediate familyaround for us to all ease them
into it, I believe.
Your child will need to knowthat this is, and, it's a good
(35:02):
life lesson where, um, it's adifficult time, but you're going
to get through on the other end.
You know, it's not like a snapof your finger.
It's like, yeah, we're gonnamove.
It's teaching the child, it's aprocess.
And after this right, we willget to the other end.
And in anything you try oranything you do, you know, it's
(35:24):
a process.
Life goes up and down you justhave to know that how you deal
with it along the way helps youget to the other end.
Clare (35:35):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Raffiah,.
You're right.
When we support our kids withthe ups and the downs because
there will be, we don't need tosave them or rescue them from
the adversity as such, or thechallenge.
But it's supporting them throughit and also letting them know
that they're capable.
(35:57):
And you, you see that?
Yes.
Oh, you are capable of doingthis, you will get to the other
side.
Raffiah (36:01):
You gotta be their cheerleader
Clare (36:02):
So,
Raffiah (36:03):
That's, you know,
Clare (36:04):
Hmm,
Raffiah (36:05):
in life.
I, you
Clare (36:07):
Hmm.
Oh, absolutely.
Well.
Raffiah, thank you so much forchatting today.
This has been so insightful.
I loved your reflections.
I loved the things that you toldus about and these experiences,
and I think, I'm sure that a lotof the listeners will be able to
(36:29):
relate to this in some way.
And, you know, help them withany upcoming transitions or help
them reflect on some of themoves that they've had.
Uh, so that's been reallylovely.
Thank you so much, Raffiah
Raffiah (36:44):
Well, thank you so much for having me this was an
enjoyable chat.
So thank you so much forlistening to this conversation
and thanks to Rafia for sharingher experiences so openly.
If anything in this episodesparked something for you, I'd
love to hear about it.
You can find me on Instagram atglobally thriving, or you can
(37:09):
reach out to me on my website.
Globally thriving.com Also, ifyou are curious about parent
coaching and if it might beright for you, you can book a
free 20 minute call via the linkin the show notes, and we can
have a no pressure conversationjust to find out more about it.
Thanks for listening.
See you next time.
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