October 1, 2025 • 64 mins
Who says you shouldn't mix family and business?
In this episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast, Ken Lucci sits down with industry veterans Mike Rose from My Limo and Tim Rose from Hoffman Transportation Group.
Discover their journey from rental cars to growing a transportation business 10x from $4 million to $40 million in 5 years. Learn about the importance of customer service, technology adoption, and creating a culture of safety. They discuss the current challenges in the industry, such as insurance and technology, and share insights on future opportunities.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
00:26 Welcome
01:33 Introduction
09:12 Emergency Services Dispatching
12:26 Early and Current Challenges
17:35 From 4 to 40 Million
22:29 Managing Expectations
30:51 The Biggest Challenges and Opportunities of the Next Five Years
37:54 Insuring Safety Into Operations
53:45 Five Year Forecast
Mike Rose: mike.rose@mylimo.com
Tim Rose: trose@dolphintransportation.com
At Driving Transactions, Ken Lucci and his team offer financial analysis, KPI reviews, for specific purposes like improving profitability, enhancing the value of the enterprise business planning and buying and selling companies. So if you have any of those needs, please give us a call or check us out at www.drivingtransactions.com.
Pax Training is your all in one solution designed to elevate your team's skills, boost passenger satisfaction, and keep your business ahead of the curve. Learn more at www.paxtraining.com/gtp
Connect with Kenneth Lucci, Principle Analyst at Driving Transactions:
https://www.drivingtransactions.com/
Connect with James Blain, President at PAX Training:
https://paxtraining.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ken Lucci (00:26):
Well, good afternoon and welcome to another exciting
episode of the GroundTransportation Podcast.
My name is Ken Luci from DrivingTransactions.
I'm doing a solo, podcast, todaywithout my lovely and talented
partner in crime, James Blainefrom PAC's Training.
Uh, I, I understand he'straveling, probably training a
(00:49):
whole group of class Achauffeurs.
So, James, I miss you if you'reout there and if you're
listening, I am really blessedtoday.
my prayers have come true fromlast night, and I actually, this
is, this is actually happeningwhere I have two people that I
really call my friends in theindustry, and two guys that I
(01:12):
also consider to be seriousicons in the business.
You've both been in the businessfor a long time, and your
brothers.
and you're in the same room,which, and you're, you're
smiling, which is, which ispretty interesting.
I'm pleased to have, uh, and nowI didn't pick who was going to
be announced first, so don'tread into this.
(01:33):
Um, Mike Rose.
Mike Rose from my limo.
I think it might have to do withthe spend.
I'm not sure.
Anyway, Mike Rose from my limo,president of my limo, and Tim
Rose from Hoffman TransportationGroup.
dolphin Transportation inFlorida.
Tim, you're president of HoffmanTransportation.
(01:54):
Okay.
Well, I really appreciate youcoming today.
Um, we try to make thesepodcasts fun, uh, with
information that operators can,glean from, from, that they can
put into their operation.
And the whole idea is to makethem think.
Right?
So I couldn't think of a bettercouple of guests to have on
that.
Have your legacy in the space.
(02:15):
and whoever decides to go first,you guys can draw straws.
Tell us about your first chapterin the business.
The Nice Brothers (02:24):
Go ahead.
Well, you know, we, uh, ourfamily was in the, uh, leasing
and renta car business, Ken.
and while during, um, college Iworked for, uh, the family
business in the, uh, the rentthe car, you know, space.
And we, um, we used to deal witha lot of, you know, corporate,
(02:48):
Uh, accounts in the Meadowlandsarea where we were in New
Jersey, and it was a goodopportunity at that time to, uh,
to build up that leasing and,and Renta car business.
And this was really beforeenterprise was, uh, prominent on
every corner like they are now.
So that business was, uh, was,was fairly successful and, um,
(03:11):
you know, during college workedthere, uh, you doing different,
uh, positions and then we, um,we used to get a lot of people
requesting to pick them up anddrop them off at hotels locally
and for the rented cars.
And, and then, you know, lateron people would, uh, would ask
us to take them, uh, to theairport'cause they couldn't find
transportation.
(03:31):
And we, uh, started looking intothat.
one we found was that there was,you know, a, an opportunity on
the, transportation side in, uh,in New Jersey's ripe.
Uh,'cause there's a lot of, youknow, big corporations,
headquarters, pharmaceuticalcompanies and other things.
So we, um, we were very, uh,successful at going to some of
those companies who we hadrented cars, uh, to, and, uh,
(03:55):
and trying to see what they did.
And they all used taxi services.
So they were, uh, were prettyhappy to have a, uh, a
transportation company that theycould use that was more, you
know, professional than whatthey were used to.
Ken Lucci (04:08):
what year was this?
Roughly?
The Nice Brothers (04:10):
Early seventies.
Uh, no, my, my brother startedthe rental car business in 1979,
but, uh, this was, uh, in 1985during, uh, college.
So it years for.
Ken Lucci (04:22):
Wow.
Wow.
And Mike, when did you join thefamily business?
The Nice Brothers (04:26):
So, you know, in, in the early years, uh,
probably during, you know,college or during high school,
the summertimes I would spend asat the business, whether it was
cleaning cars, fixing up thingsaround the office, et cetera.
and as Tim said, it was only a,you know, a car rental company
at that point.
Then during college, I continuedto work there part-time as the
limousine and car rentalbusinesses grew, um, and then
(04:50):
eventually to a, full-timeposition overseeing and managing
the car rental division, um,where we grew that to multiple
branches.
Um, and I think we had 450 Rentacars, uh, at, at, you know, the
final stages before I left thecompany.
Ken Lucci (05:06):
And, and Tim, when do you, when would you say the
limousine side of things tookoff?
The Nice Brothers (05:12):
what we discovered was that.
We were doing business with on.
Panasonics, the Hoffman, theRoches, the, the Becton
Dickinson's of the world.
They were, uh, you know, theywould get some, you know, rent a
car replacements, but on a dailybasis they were doing, you know,
(05:34):
5, 10, 15, 20 rides to the, uh,the airports because the, these
were their headquarters.
And, um, so the activity was,was significant compared to just
the, uh, the Renta car business.
And they complimented each otherbecause they were happy with our
service on the one side.
And, um, I can remember, like itwas, it was yesterday walking
(05:55):
into and, and, um, the officeand them handing me an envelope
with 30 trip tickets in it.
And the, uh, the old man said tome, he said.
Take this, envelope kid anddon't screw it up.
And he says, you'll have a bigopportunity.
And I, I went back to the officeand, uh, I shared it with my,
uh, older brother and I said,uh, I think we hit the jackbot
(06:16):
here.
And, uh, that's, that's kind of,you know, how it, how it took
off.
And we went from there.
We joined a program called ClubChauffeur, which was a Diners
Club program, through a network.
And in that network everybodyhad one car and was the driver.
And we had a pretty significant.
(06:37):
Fleet of, you know, uh,passenger vans, all different
types of, of vehicles.
And we said to them, if we havemore than one or two drivers,
could we put them on the networkas well?
And they said, sure.
So, uh, through that Clumpchafer program, we started to
get, you know, kind ofconsistent work.
It helped fill in the gaps.
and, and that really was, uh,was helpful.
(06:59):
We did the, uh, anytime theyneeded big things done, we had,
you know, 15 passenger vans.
So they, they'd call us and say,we need, you know, five vans for
the, uh, the Prince, you know,concert at Madison Square Garden
for, uh, for 10 days.
And we were the only people inthat network at that time who
were able to provide that, youknow, type of, uh,
(07:21):
transportation.
And we
Ken Lucci (07:23):
the name of the company at Go.
The Nice Brothers (07:25):
State leasing and rent a car.
And then, you know, garden StateLimousine was the, uh, was the,
uh, transportation company.
Ken Lucci (07:31):
When did you, when did it become, or tell me the
transition between Garden StateLimousine and Flight Time.
The Nice Brothers (07:39):
So, um, in, uh, 1997, um, I guess we, uh,
there was, uh, a transactionthat was contemplated between,
uh, precept, business systemsthat was gonna buy, uh, garden
(08:00):
State at that time.
And, uh, my brother wanted to,uh, to sell the, uh, the
transportation business, at thatpoint, that summer, I, uh, I
left the business and, um, youknow.
All of the, uh, the peoplereported to me as well as all
the customers.
So we, we had a pretty good, uh,opportunity there.
(08:24):
I didn't want to be, uh, partof, uh, that transaction.
So I went off on my own and, uh,I bought, you know, half of, uh,
flight time to continue what wehad been, you know, building.
Ken Lucci (08:36):
Now, when did Mike join you at flight time?
The Nice Brothers (08:39):
So just to take a step back, so I was at
Garden State, you know, with Timfor those many years, and then I
left prior to him.
So I left, you know, probably afew months prior to him.
Um, and then I, I took asabbatical from the ground
transportation space and wentinto, uh, emergency dispatching
and managing 9 1 1 Center.
So I was at the state police inNew Jersey and then a, a local
(09:02):
police department in New Jersey.
So I was overseeing all thecommunications and 9 1 1 centers
and staffing for, for those, uh,facilities for probably about,
10 years.
So, I took a 10 year sabbatical.
I think I joined flight time in2005.
2005.
Yeah.
Ken Lucci (09:17):
so so let's just stop there for a second.
how would you say yourexperience on the emergency
services side and dispatchinghas helped you in setting up the
dispatching and logisticsdepartment?
At my limo, I, I know it's you,you guys have, I've been there.
I've, I've seen the multiplescreens, the many screens.
tell me a little bit about the,the commonalities between those
(09:39):
two things.
The Nice Brothers (09:40):
Well, I think, you know, the first thing
is you, you have to have, youknow, seamless communication.
and obviously you have to enableyour teams with the technology
and the tools that areavailable.
and one of the things, you know,that I learned from my dispatch.
Experience, especially the statepolice where we were in a
dispatch center, whichdispatched the entire northern
half of the state of New Jersey,we answered a couple million 9 1
(10:04):
1 calls a month.
So we were operating in adispatch center with, you know,
10 or 15 dispatchers on a shiftwith multiple screens, you know,
lots of technology around us.
so that was really, you know,when I wanted to, you know, uh,
build this office space here formy limousine, I said, you know,
I wanna give the tools and thetechnology that my team needs to
(10:25):
really do the job effectively.
The days of dispatching from,you know, when we first started
we had paper trip tickets and wewere moving them around on a, a,
a peg board, you know, completedtrips, moved down to the bottom
and, you know, assign the nextday's work.
Those days are over.
Everything is now, you know,technology and app based.
So.
My dispatchers have a samsarascreen on where they're watching
(10:47):
the telematics.
They have the Santa Cruzscreens, They're using, you
know, flight tracking software.
They're using text messagingsoftware.
So at any one given time, if Igo into my dispatch department,
I look at my dispatcher screens,he could have 15, 20 tabs open
up on a web browser.
So, by giving them four screensor multiple screens, it allows
them to move those windows asthey see fit and really do their
(11:11):
job more effectively.
So I think that's really thekey, you know, takeaway from,
the emergency dispatch side ofit is having the technology and
the tools available for yourdispatchers to make the job
easier.
Ken Lucci (11:25):
Well, the other thing I noticed when I was there is
it's an incredibly sterileenvironment and it's quiet.
The Nice Brothers (11:32):
the days of, you know, Louie and the, uh,
cage and from taxi Dec cab areover.
we've all been to, you know,other transportation companies,
whether it's black car companiesin the city and in Long Island.
You know, they, some of themstill have that type of
environment.
And especially, you know, thecorporate world when you're
handling large scale events,when a, a booker or an admin
(11:53):
calls up, they don't wanna hearscreaming in the background.
They wanna hear a, you know, acontrolled environment where,
your call takers, yourdispatchers are controlling the
call.
They're thoroughly trainedproperly, uh, you know, to
handle the, uh, the call and,uh, you know, whatever the, the
request is
Ken Lucci (12:12):
Well, and I, I always say this, chaos in the office or
chaos in dispatch usuallytranslates to chaos on the
street.
Where somebody on the streetdoesn't know what they're doing,
ends up making mistakes.
So take us back to Tim.
Take us back to 2005, and I wantyou to think back then what were
the biggest challenges to thatbusiness?
(12:33):
And now let's translate it intowhat challenges are there today?
What challenges did you haveback then?
The Nice Brothers (12:41):
So when I, when I took over flight time,
um, in, uh, 97, to Mike's point,the first thing I did was, um, I
threw out all the paper becauseat that point, at Garden State,
we had transitioned to, youknow, electronic, you know,
dispatching.
and so that was long ago.
So when I, when I came in, theyhad a great, you know, framework
and a great crew of people inplace at Flight Town.
(13:05):
I had been there for many, manyyears.
If I could just interrupt realquick, I think, you know, when
we left Garden State, we hadprobably 175 cars in the limo
fleet and 450 rent Acar.
So mm-hmm.
When he says that wetransitioned to, you know,
dispatching via software asopposed to paper, that was a
pretty big feat You know, duringthat time period for a company
(13:25):
of our size.
Yeah, absolutely.
you know, and we had great, youknow, people there as, as well,
um, you know, at Garden Statethat grown up many out there.
They just hadn't adopted the,uh, the electronic technology.
(13:47):
You know, we were in able toincrease our efficiency by 20%
overnight, uh, with the, uh, thebusiness that, they had.
And we went from, you know, 4million in business in 97, in,
in five years we were doing 40million.
and that
Ken Lucci (14:05):
10.
That's literally the 10 x growththat everybody likes to
The Nice Brothers (14:09):
correct, but, and, and a so over a hundred
people came with us over the,transition, to fly time.
who had worked for us throughthe years and, uh, you know.
Many of the, uh, the clients as,as well, they, uh, they wanted
to, uh, to continue with, uh,the team that was in place.
So it was, it was a really, youknow, great opportunity.
(14:31):
and from there, we doubled itagain, in size, at, some point
in 2001, we had built a, uh, abrand new facility and, uh, we
were scheduled to move in theweek of nine 11.
Ken Lucci (14:44):
Wow.
The Nice Brothers (14:45):
Yeah.
And, uh, it was a big facilityfor us, big move for for the
whole company.
We owned the property.
It was, it was just, you know,fantastic.
And we were very excited.
you know, we made it throughnine 11, uh, very difficult, you
know, and then being in the NewYork market, you know, and
challenges for, uh, for all thefamilies who were involved in,
(15:06):
in that area.
and then a few years later Ijust, I just found myself.
That the, the business hadoutgrown the people who were
there and we needed, you know,some, super smart people to come
in and, and lead the way.
So I kind of ambushed him.
I invited him out to dinner andI said, Hey, why don't we have
(15:28):
dinner?
You know, one night it was asteak dinner I couldn't refuse.
And he goes, why?
I said, well, it's just yourbrother.
I wanna, I wanna take you out,you know, and, and, and have you
for dinner.
So I'm, I'm telling him aboutsome of the issues and he goes,
yeah, it sounds like, thetransportation business that I
left.
I said, no, no, it's much betternow been, you know.
(15:57):
So it took a little cajoling.
but, uh, you know, but finally,uh, you know, uh, you know, he
came along, uh, you know, withus and, uh, you know, worked.
Ken Lucci (16:07):
What function?
What function did he, when heinitially came in,
The Nice Brothers (16:11):
Operations, you know, manager, you know, uh,
where he was.
He was able to, uh, to help us,you know, uh, you know, lead
the, the operations sidebecause, you know, Mike's forte
is, operational excellence aswell as, you know, as you
pointed out all the technologyand, and, uh, the adoption, of
(16:31):
that and the best ways to do it.
So he's very process driven and,um, you know, that's something
that, you know, we really, youknow, really needed at that
time.
Yeah.
And one thing, you know, he hada, uh, a great team in place
already, and a lot of them werelegacy employees from the, the
prior ownership.
So he was obviously concernedabout bringing in his brother or
(16:54):
somebody new over those folks.
So, you know, I, I came in at alower level, but I was able to,
you know, win those people over.
And obviously they understood,you know, what we were trying to
do to help.
Build the business, bring bettertechnology.
So I think, you know, when Ijoined, we had the one location,
(17:14):
and then, you know, by the timeit was sold, we had, uh, six
different locations around thecountry, six different branch
offices around the country,which we had all
Ken Lucci (17:22):
How big, How big did you grow it from?
So you, the, the, the legacybusiness was your
father-in-law's business?
Correct.
And
The Nice Brothers (17:29):
correct.
Ken Lucci (17:31):
that was, at that time it was a$4 million
operation.
The Nice Brothers (17:34):
Right.
Ken Lucci (17:35):
And then how did you get it to 40 million?
What strategies did you use?
What do you think, if you had topoint to the top three things
that that allowed thatexponential growth?
What was it?
The Nice Brothers (17:49):
I think it's, it's all about the people.
It's, it's all about the people,you know, and, and the only
thing that ever differentiatedus, you know, uh, was the, the,
the great people who were partof our team.
And, uh, you know, that that wasdefinitely, you know, the, uh,
the differentiator.
Everybody's got shiny cars and,you know, and, and, uh,
(18:12):
different technologies andthings like that.
And the people and who care,and, you know, will go the extra
mile for, uh, for the customerare really the, the most
important, you know, piece ofthe puzzle.
And, and like I said, a hundredof them from the original
company came, came with us, youknow, from the chauffeur pool,
all, all the way up to thedispatchers.
(18:33):
And that was the key.
I think when you look back at,you know.
Those early two thousands or mid2000 years, the thing that
really differentiated us wascustomer service and the fact
that we never said no.
Mm-hmm.
And whether it was handling anevent, whether it was
specialized billing andreporting that you wanted.
If our software didn't have it,we built it.
(18:54):
Mm-hmm.
You know, there was never a noto our clients, and that's what
clients liked about us.
In addition to, you know,beautiful cars, great chauffeur,
great people answering thephones, it was our ability to
say yes and deliver whateverthey needed that really helped
differentiate us.
And I think that's what ourclients would say.
(19:16):
I, I, it was funny, I had a, Ihad a call the other day with
one of our top, uh, VP of, uh,sales who had worked for us.
And we had, we had a, adiscussion the other day and,
and such a great guy.
And, and, uh, I was talking tohim and he said, I can remember
coming out of sales, you know,visits with clients and, you
know, there'd be three peoplefrom the team there along with,
(19:38):
with me.
And you know, they'd look andthey'd say, we can do that.
And I'd say, well, don't worry.
We'll figure it out.
And that was, that was, we, didyou.
Ken Lucci (19:51):
Yeah.
And there's a, there's a lot tothat.
There's a tremendous amount tothat that I think a lot of
companies have forgotten.
the customer does not exist tolive by our rules or to, to bend
to what operationally, is,convenient for us.
The ability to say yes in theservice business.
I don't know why that's ananathema to so many companies,
(20:13):
but it seems to be, if, unlessit fits into their definition of
convenience.
I don't know how they survive.
The ability to say yes we can isthe difference between good and
great?
To me it's, it's totally thedifference.
You, you, you know, you hit uponsomething, everybody, and I see
it all the time on Facebook, wesee it all the time on Facebook
(20:34):
and we laugh about it together,is, oh, I got a brand new
Escalade.
It's 118,000.
I have a brand new sprinter Ijust paid 208,000 for, or
whatever the case is.
and at the end of the day, Isubmit to you until you tell me
whether you agree with this.
You know, a three-year-oldEscalade with a fantastic
chauffeur and a company thatsays, yes, we can do this.
(20:58):
Don't worry about it.
We've got you covered Everytime, you know, that beats out
brand new vehicle that came offthe lot and a so-so chauffeur
and a so-so customer experiencewhere you know, the person's
asking dispatch.
It, it just doesn't, to me,that's the difference between
good and great.
That's the difference betweenjust a so-so level service and
(21:21):
top shelf, five star, um,customer service.
The Nice Brothers (21:26):
It's, it's funny you mentioned, you know,
the, the vehicle type in thosemore expensive vehicles.
You know, when the Lincoln Towncar was decommissioned to end of
life by four, uh, we startedswitch.
And looking at different vehicleoptions.
So we, we tried a prototype or abeta test with some Chrysler,
three hundreds.
We did it in our Philadelphiamarket and ran'em all in
(21:47):
Philadelphia.
And we sent out surveys, clientsurveys after like three or four
months.
And we said, you know, we'retransitioning vehicles.
What do you think about the, thenew vehicles that you've been
experiencing in the Philadelphiamarket?
If we were to transition tothese, you know, full-time in
all places, what, what would youthink?
And I think we had 4,000respondents who said, I don't
care what you pick me up in, aslong as the vehicle's clean the
(22:09):
chauffeur knows where he isgoing and they're on time.
So those three factors, inaddition to, you know, the
quality customer service whenthey're making the booking and
the correct billing on thebackside, those are really the
factors that drive your businessand really define what customer
service is in this business.
Ken Lucci (22:29):
And no pushback when, so in, sometimes I'll walk into
a dispatching department and thedispatchers is probably, I think
you'd agree, one of the mosthectic.
Positions in the company if youlet it be, if they let it be, if
that's the culture, if theculture is more towards, you
know, Louis the taxi dispatcher,you know, then, traffic control,
(22:52):
ground, ground control typething.
But I see some dispatcherspushing back with clients on the
phone and I, I think they losesight.
Yes.
Your job is about logistics, butyour job is also mo more
importantly about managingcustomer expectations.
So you are in one of the busiesttrafficked areas in the country.
(23:14):
I mean, how do you deal with,uh, a car that you think is not
gonna be on time?
How do you, save the, thereputation when the vehicle is,
things are not going as well?
Well as planned,
The Nice Brothers (23:27):
I, I think for the New York market, advent
of, telematics has completelychanged that game, so.
When we started dispatchingyears ago via paper without GPS,
we were relying on Tony to tellus how far he was from Newark
Airport, and hopefully Tony wasgiving us an accurate ETA or the
client would be very upset.
(23:48):
Today, in real time we can checkthat, you know, through a
variety of systems.
We have, you know, our primarytelematics system, Samsara, that
we're utilizing.
We also have a secondarytelematics system on the
tablets, the chauffeur's tabletsthat we can check their timing.
So that really enables us to bemuch more proactive when it
comes to monitoring, chauffeur'sarrival times and whether or not
(24:11):
they're gonna make, theirpickups on time.
So it gives us, you know, a moreadvanced view of whether or not
we're going to be on time if weneed to make a change.
And having a larger fleet,obviously that helps you.
Puzzle pieces around the eventof a, you know, potential
service.
Yeah.
And, and, and at flight time inour heyday, uh, Ken, we were
(24:31):
doing over, over 3000 trips aday system wide.
So we had built technology.
Surrounding that to Mike's pointabout, you know, if it wasn't,
available, we, built it.
know, we had a, uh, a team oftechnology folks that, you know,
grew up in the business with us.
And, we never said no.
We said, you know, we told themto go build the space shuttle,
(24:52):
you know, they'd build it andwe'd find, folks who would, uh,
we could pay to, uh, to be onour team.
And, you know, at that time, we,built, you know, many, many
things including a global,affiliate rate engine.
We built technology to, to trackall of the, uh, the vehicles and
countdown to, you know, whenthey were gonna, be at their,
their next job or, available in,in the next zone.
(25:15):
that was a big piece of thepuzzle in order for us to, uh,
you know, to be able to reallyexpand that business.
We built M-S-S-M-S technologybefore it was even a thing.
prior to being offered by any ofthe software providers, we had
it, we built it.
Yeah.
We got shuttle booking tools.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, we had all ofthese things, that we built
through, you know, ourdevelopers built Yeah.
(25:36):
That were add-ons to ourexisting software platform, but
they were integrated.
as I said earlier, it was about,you know, we could do it if a
customer asked, we could do it.
And we delivered it.
We took over Virgin Atlantic,the program in New York.
It was 200 JFK pickups and dropoffs a day.
Said to, uh, to them, we said,well, you know, all these
(25:57):
international cell phones thatpeople are arriving, you know,
they're texting back and forth.
What happens to the text messageyou know, if if they respond to
it, they said, oh, it just fallson the floor.
Nobody responds to it.
We said, huh.
So, so we built the technologyto read the text messages, and
then to have them go to thedispatch department because it
(26:18):
was especially important whenyou're picking up people at
office buildings in, in New YorkCity that, said, you know, I'm,
I'm coming out the, the door, on35th Street instead of 36th
Street.
You take an hour to go aroundthe block if you move.
So, we trained if it was forwithin an hour of that, we sent
the message not only to thedispatcher, we sent it to the
driver.
(26:38):
So we did all of that and uh,you know, we, uh, we ended up at
the point, you know, uh, lateron where we bought the software
company for five and a halfmillion dollars.
You know, that was af and youknow, we had, we had customized
it, you know, so, so much and,so well, that the trips would
come in electronically from allthe booking channels.
(26:59):
And if it was for a network tripanywhere in, in the world, it
would automatically be routed tothe network provider who, uh,
who provided that, uh, thatservice for us with real time
pricing and, you know,availability and mm-hmm.
All, all the, the bells andwhistles, some of them that, you
know, a lot of operators don'thave today, unfortunately.
Right.
And we should.
(27:19):
Mm-hmm.
Ken Lucci (27:20):
correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason why it
worked so well was because inreal time you took a problem,
you took an operational problem,and you put it minds on top of
it to solve it.
Whereas I think everybody in theindustry would agree at this
point that there is a large gapbetween the day-to-day operation
(27:44):
of a business and theintricacies of today's operation
and the software companies, theyalmost exist in a vacuum.
I, I think, to me, isfrustrating because what you
proved with, with flight timeand owning AF and all the things
you added to it was you cansolve these problems if you
understand the operationalissue.
The Nice Brothers (28:05):
Right.
the key was, you know, you hadpeople involved, in operations
as well as the IT side, that,and they understood both sides
of the puzzle.
So our IT folks were industryveterans who understood travel
ground transportation, who livedin it, who worked in it at some
point.
So they weren't just, you know,software developers sitting in
(28:27):
a, a room somewhere developingcode.
They understood thetransportation space, and that's
really the key.
Mm-hmm.
And in 1997, for example, whenthey, they first came out with
the, the technology that laterbecame, you know, uh, Saturn
and, and, and ground span, wewere the, uh, the first company
on that.
And, you know, we.
(28:47):
We went to, you know, to CarlsonTravel and installed the
software, the first install of,uh, the Genesis reservation
system, you know, in 1997 at,uh, you know, a division of
Bayer pharmaceuticals and onevery computer in the travel
department.
And we were off to the races.
From there, we went to thousandsand thousands of electronic
(29:09):
transactions from, you know,corporations all over the
country.
Ken Lucci (29:14):
So flash forward today.
What do you see?
As you know, the reason why Iwanted you both on here is there
are not too many people.
That had successfully gone fromseveral chapters and done really
well, hit it out of the park,and then had a chance to be at
the helm of another ship and doit again.
Now, in Mike's case, and I, Ihear it out in the marketplace,
(29:38):
my limo was a nice sleeper of acompany.
And then Mike, is now reallyputting it into warp speed.
Um, as, as, as, uh, you're a 50,50% owner now, right, Mike?
And just to be clear, Tim is notan owner at all in my limo, just
so everybody knows that.
Okay.
(29:59):
But my limo was a great brand,but it was, in my estimation, at
least before you took the helmof it, it was just there.
Whereas now you're pushing theenvelope.
you're, you're post on socialmedia.
I see you out in themarketplace.
I see you at every associationand.
You are definitely one of thetop three, top five in that
marketplace, and you're acontender, I think formidable as
(30:22):
far as competing with.
Now in Tim's case, we dealtwith, the Hoffman family of
companies when we, sold pureluxury and they were interesting
as a buyer.
Very interesting as a buyerstill are, but I never heard
Hoffman mentioned in terms of acontender as a network until you
(30:46):
came on the scene, until theybought Dolphin and basically put
you in charge of thetransportation side.
So you're both at the helm of,of some, you know, pretty
exciting stuff.
what are your biggestchallenges, and what do you see
the biggest opportunities of thenext five years?
What are your biggest challengesfirst, and then let's hit the
opportunities.
The Nice Brothers (31:07):
So I think I, you know, I'll start, uh, from
a, from a company perspective, Ithink, you know, you, as you
mentioned, my limo company'sbeen around for a long time,
over 40 years.
Great business.
Ken Lucci (31:18):
Legacy brand.
Nicely known.
The Nice Brothers (31:21):
top three as far as fleet size in, you know,
the, the, the marketplace.
but with the thing that, youknow, it didn't have, it didn't
have the name recognition in thecorporate circles.
So one of the things that Inoticed when I came here and
when I went out to, corporatetravel events, GBTA events,
people would say, oh, you know,how long have you been in
business if we've never heard ofyou.
And I, I told them 40 years, andthey would be shocked.
(31:43):
So we've really focused on brandrecognition and getting our name
out there.
Spending a lot of extra dollarson advertising and marketing.
as far as, you know, industrychallenges, I think, you know,
regardless of what market you'rein, the largest challenge for
any of us is, insurance at thispoint.
Um, and beyond that, I would sayis, you know, technology and
(32:07):
being able to keep up withtechnology.
I think we're behind the eightball as it relates to
technology, and those two are,really the, key factors.
And again, I think it's anationwide problem with
unlicensed operators, takingshare of market from us.
So we have to work twice as hardto.
(32:28):
Deliver the same amount of tripsand revenue that we did five, 10
years ago.
So, you know, again, customerloyalty, delivering that, that
great customer experience iskey.
and being in front of people topof mind, because if we're not
top of mind, somebody else isgonna be there to take them to
the airport, so,
Ken Lucci (32:47):
A hundred percent staying top of mind and making
sure they know everything thatyou do.
I had a conversation with anoperator the other day that
we've, we've kind of usheredthem into the motor coach space
and we did an analysis for'emand said, look, look at your top
20 clients.
They obviously love you becausethey're using your sedans and
SUVs.
Not so much on Vans, not so muchon Minis and not one motor coach
(33:12):
reservation yet.
These are all opportunities, sothat's a good thing.
But top of mind, we're only, youknow, one trip away from losing
an account and they're notsitting on our website trying to
figure out how to use us.
We constantly have to becommunicating with them, and I
know you're doing that.
Because you, you know,everywhere I turn around at
(33:33):
association meetings, you'rethere.
and I know some of the otherstuff you're trying to do on the
corporate side.
So let's, we're gonna circleback on insurance'cause that's a
big topic.
But Tim, what do you see as yourbiggest challenges as you, as
you put everything together andwhere do you see the
opportunities over the nextfive?
The Nice Brothers (33:51):
So, you know.
I stayed on to be, uh, uh,chairman of the board, um, north
America after Addison Lee boughtthe business in, uh, 2017 and,
um, in, in, uh, 2019, moved on.
I had a house in, Florida formany years.
And when I went down there, Iwas, I was renovating my house
(34:12):
and I said to my wife, I said,I'm gonna buy the biggest
company in, in Naples, just fun.
And she said, are you out ofyour mind?
And I said, well, I said, Ijust, you know, had the largest
sale in the industry's history.
And I said, I'm, I'm, I'm onlyin my fifties and I'm kind of,
you know, Jones do something.
And, uh, so, um, you know, webought, uh, dolphin in September
(34:32):
of 19.
And as everybody knows, youknow, we we had huge plans, lots
of great things, planned to, uh,for, uh, for Dolphin, at that
time.
And, um.
then COVID hit as everybodyknew, and, and we spent the
next, two years of our life.
I think that, you know, it's a,it's a, uh, gap in everybody's
resume.
What'd you do for two years?
(34:53):
Well, what we did was, you know,the public started ringing from
all the, uh, the local operatorswho had big problems.
They had challenges that their,their insurance was, uh, was,
uh, they couldn't pay it ontheir vehicles.
Their cars weren't gonna getrepossessed.
They had personal guarantees,and we said, well, why don't you
come with us?
We got a, a parking lot here ofover a hundred cars, and if it
(35:16):
comes back, we'll put, you know,some of those cars to do your
work.
And we'll pay you every nickelthat it was worth in 2019.
So we started signing them up'cause the cars had value.
They dumped their fleet.
I sold a couple of them, theirfleets in one day.
You know, some of'em had 20cars, you know, one, one check,
you know, was written and, andthey were happy to get out of
(35:38):
it.
And, uh, we put together, uh, adeal there with, uh, you know,
six or seven companies, um, youknow, several in, uh, in
Sarasota, several in Naples, andyou know, a big one in Miami.
And, um, we put it all togetherand, you know, getting rid of
all the equipment.
We never envisioned the supplychain issues when it, it came
back.
(35:59):
But, uh, we figured that out andthe, the staffing issues as
well.
so when it was all said anddone, you know, we had it all on
one platform.
You, we, the time to integrateeverything so that we're basking
Robs on the front end, but onthe back it's all completely
seamless.
Mike would've been proud of meas a matter of fact, you know,
to, uh, to do that.
(36:20):
But I had the time.
Ken Lucci (36:21):
sounds like a, it sounds like a little bit of the
operational efficiency mighthave rubbed off brother to
brother.
The Nice Brothers (36:27):
So, uh, and at, at, later on, we, uh, you
mentioned the, uh, the Hopman,uh, you know, family of
companies.
Uh, later on they, uh, they werelooking for, uh, platform
because they had bought, to yourpoint, several companies around
the country.
Uh, we had a platform because wehad, you know, bought the seven
companies and fully integratedthem.
And they liked the fact that wewere a platform that that could,
(36:50):
put that together for them.
Uh, in addition to that, theyhad, you know, bought the best
in class providers all over the,uh, the country, which really
was exciting to me to work with.
Those, those folks, and many of'em met them work for us in our
affiliate network in, in flighttime for, uh, for many years.
But, All great, companies and,you know, great opportunity to
(37:10):
work together with them and thefamily of, uh, of companies.
You know, the Hoffmans have beengreat.
it's a multi vertical,multi-billion dollar company
that, you know, has a lot ofopportunity to help these owners
who are, are looking to, uh, todo a transaction and a
transition.
And we continue to, uh, to dothat.
And we're focused on the, uh,the premium market.
(37:33):
That's really the, the businessthat we're in.
Um, and, uh, Mike's doing thesame in, uh, in my limo, he's
taking it to the next level.
he just hasn't, and, uh, Howard,the, uh, the original owner and
Stu, great people know them for,uh, 30, 40 years and had a great
business.
And they're excited that Mikeand the team here are leading it
to the next level.
Ken Lucci (37:54):
So, let's get, let's circle back on the insurance
piece because this is, this is,uh, I, I, think there are a lot
of operators that are still osostriches and I think there's a
lot of operators who areblindsided when they come to
renewal time and their insurancehas gone up 40%.
And the, common refrain I hearis, well quote, my loss runs
(38:17):
aren't that bad.
and it's just, I have to shakemy head.
They come to us in one of twoways.
Number one, they come to us tosay, I need to sell my business
because my fleet insurance hasgone up to a point where I can't
afford it.
I don't have the money for thedown payment.
That's number one.
Or number two, they'll come tous through a buyer, through
(38:39):
another operator.
Who would they have called withthe same situation, and instead
of selling the company on theopen market, they'll be forced,
they'll sell it to a friendlyoperator.
This has happened, no, no lessthan a dozen times in the past
90 days.
And the commonalities is, it'scertainly in the tri-state
(39:02):
market.
We're seeing it in the Floridamarket.
We're seeing it in California,but we're also seeing it in
Michigan.
So I think people are still notgrasping that this is somebody
else's problem.
No, it's not.
I actually have a client thatwas in a captive and his loss
runs were, quote, not that bad,but he got kicked out.
(39:25):
He basically, my estimation,took the eye off the ball.
So how do you create a, cultureof safety and how do you
mitigate, against thecatastrophic accident or the
catastrophic event?
How do you instill safety, uh,into your operations?
The Nice Brothers (39:44):
So, uh, I'll start.
So one of the, you know, thethings that's, that's really
interesting.
I was just reading a, a reportthat's gonna be published
shortly regarding insurance in,in our industry.
And one of the stats that justmade my head shake was only 46%
of folks in the industry areutilizing cameras and
telematics.
(40:05):
So probably in 2002.
We started using, the earlydrive cam camera systems.
Yeah.
Okay.
And,
Ken Lucci (40:16):
Yep.
The Nice Brothers (40:16):
the immediate return on investment was
amazing.
Oh my God.
Not only, you know, phantomdamage to the vehicles, wear and
tear and, and maintenance on thevehicles, but also having that,
view of what actually happenedin the accident.
The stopping the, he said, shesaid, so, you know, as an
industry we have to do betterbecause if only 46% of our,
(40:38):
industry folks are usingcameras, that's a real problem.
Yeah.
And until we get to a hundredpercent adoption as an industry,
we're gonna continue to have a,an insurance crisis.
So.
The losses, you know, the, thecatastrophic losses that you
talk about, you know, they arecertainly increased by the lack
of telematics usage.
They're increased by thesenuclear verdicts, and the tort
(41:01):
reform that needs to happen inthese key markets.
When you drive through, whetherit's New Jersey Drive through
Philadelphia, Florida, andthere's a billboard every 600
yards for another personalinjury attorney, that's a
problem.
And we've talked about it as anindustry and all the different
associations.
It's a state by state issue.
It needs to be tackled on astate by state issue, but on A
(41:24):
national level, something needsto happen, because it's putting
people outta business every day.
Yeah.
Ken Lucci (41:29):
A hundred percent.
And, what, gets me when I talkto these operators, you know,
there's one specific case,actually a couple of them where
the operators came to us acouple years ago wanting to sell
their businesses.
And one of my key questions is,well, what do you think it's
worth?
And when we are so far apart andso far out on reality, I say,
(41:50):
you know, that's, that's justnot what these things are worth.
In both cases, recently theycame back to me with this
insurance crisis, and I remindedthem that when we talked two
years ago, you weren't making aprofit.
You were paying yourself a niceincome, but you weren't making a
profit so you couldn't updateyour fleet, and you looked upon
(42:11):
telematics as an expense.
Okay?
To me, you have to change that.
It's like a gym membership it'snot an expense unless you don't
use it.
It.
Telematics, if you are usedproperly, can change the muscle
memory of your drivers.
I'll give you a a a, this is areal world example.
(42:32):
About three weeks ago, I had asituation where a car was
stopped on a main drag right infront of me, and I was coming up
over a hill and, and the vehiclewas stopped in the middle of the
street and it's a 45 mile anhour street, double yellow line.
And I beat my horn and the guydidn't have his hazards on.
He had a, it was a boat trailer.
(42:52):
And I was like in shock becausethe car in front of me had to
swerve onto the other side ofthe road.
Well, the guy got upset that Ibeat my horn.
So long story short, he didn'tpull me out of the, the truck.
I went and I got cameras and theguy says to me, do you want a
camera that looks inside andbeing the vain little bastard
that I am?
Said, sure.
Right.
(43:12):
Well wait a minute.
Then I looked at the, then Ilooked at the footage.
I'm like, this, I never would'veimagined the number of frigging
times.
My eyes are not on the road.
I'm looking at the dog.
I'm looking like this.
I never would've imagined, and Ihaven't had an accident in
years, but that's not the point.
(43:35):
if I didn't look at thetelematics and I didn't see my
behavior, I wouldn't havechanged it.
So when I look at an operatorwho says it's an expense, to me,
it's the ultimate training toolof your chauffeurs, because
they're alone and they thinkthey're good drivers.
The Nice Brothers (43:52):
Completely shortsighted, thinking of it as
as an expense what it is.
You know, it, it's a way to, uh,to make sure you train your
chauffeurs.
And how do you te protect yourbusiness from going outta
business?
What keeps us in business,right?
one of the most important pieceof the puzzle, unfortunately
today is the insurance.
(44:13):
And if you don't, next thing youknow, the insurance company is
your partner.
Okay, so it's the biggest issuegoing on.
Mike and I are very involvedwith associations.
I'm involved with the NationalLimousine Association, the
Florida Limousine Association,the New Jersey Association still
that I was president of for, formany years.
And now Mike is president andit's the biggest, you know,
(44:34):
thing that, that we see, uh, allacross the country.
As Mike mentioned in 2002, uh,our good friend Kurt Andrews
from Drive Cam showed up on ourdoorstep and did a pilot program
with us at flight time.
We put the cameras in the carsand, the guy who ran our fleet
maintenance department said, Iwanna put it in the cars.
The guys whose brakes wear outthe fastest.
(44:57):
I wanna see what's going on.
Well, we did the pilot withlike, you know, 10 cars, I
think, and they came back,right?
And we saw the results and wesaid, oh my God, okay, talk
about phantom damage.
Talk about, you know, whatever.
Driving like a maniac.
We immediately.
Went right, marched right downto the bank and we said, listen,
(45:17):
we need 350,000 bucks.
And they said, for what?
We said cameras right now forevery car, you know, and we
rolled out the program to everycar overnight, and it was the
best money we ever spent.
And that's how long we've beenusing telematics.
And, and you talk about, youknow, modifying driver behavior.
(45:39):
Those were the cameras wherethey had to physically come back
to the office Oh, Yeah.
To download the camera.
It was torturing.
So they, they, would have todrive to the office to download
the camera, and then they wouldhave a counseling session with
the chauffeur manager, right, totalk about their driver
behavior.
Now with AI and all the advancedtechnology.
The driver of the chauffeur isgetting, you know, instant
alerts when they're distracted,when they're driving
(46:01):
aggressively.
Yeah.
So it's come, the technology'scome so much further and makes
it so much easier from anoperational perspective to be
able to manage it, you know?
So, The tools are there.
We have to adopt the the wholegoal is you're trying to avoid
the big one.
As you mentioned.
You were, you were distractedand looking at that in your
(46:21):
vehicle, right?
what we do is train.
Okay.
And James, I'm sorry you're nothere today.
We miss you too, because you dogreat work.
Okay.
Great work.
James.
Did I mention
Ken Lucci (46:34):
James, Blaine.
James Blaine from PS Trainingdoes fantastic work.
The Nice Brothers (46:38):
does fantastic work.
my Director of Safety andCompliance, Mike Davis swears by
him and, uh, so many of our,fellow affiliates do, and, you
know, our, fellow Hoffmancompanies as well.
And the whole goal is about,avoiding the, uh, the big one.
and as Mike mentioned, the newtechnology is now so much
better.
Every time that they come outwith something, I then turn
(47:00):
around and I torture Mike Davis,who works for us, and I say,
Hey, Mike, look at this newfeature that, you know, it says,
please slow down when you get toa certain mile per hour.
Or it says, you know, pleasewear your seat belts when you
get in the car.
It's, it's muscle memory asMike's said.
And, and there ways to avoidthat.
And, uh, it's really all we cando to try to, you know, ingrain
(47:22):
upon them that the safety, uh,is, is very, very important.
and insurance is what keeps usin business.
Ken Lucci (47:28):
Well, and, you know, I'll just give a shout out.
I, I, I talk a lot to TimDelaney.
I talk a lot to the guys fromresearch underwriter, Steve
Freeberg and Andrew Don, and.
Uh, they lament the fact that alot of operators still think,
well, you are going up on me andyour price.
These guys have no choice.
There's no one clamoring to getinto the commercial fleet
(47:52):
insurance business, uh, lastthree years in a row for every a
hundred dollars they've taken inthe industry has collectively
lost$104.
It's not a sustainable businessmodel.
from a standpoint of, you know,you bring up PACS training,
which I think is another, way tocreate a culture of safety.
(48:12):
And James and I lament a lotabout what we do, and someone
will look at our product, our,our course, or our services, our
financial, uh, review and profitimprovement service.
And they're like, that's prettyexpensive.
And I'm like, basically, weguarantee to improve your
profits in James Case.
To me that program is, it shouldhave been, I wish it was around
(48:34):
20 years ago when I was anoperator, but that program is a
game changer for your operation.
It tells your, your chauffeurdepartment or your chauffeur's,
individual chauffeurs that youare serious about a customer
service, superior customerservice, and maximum safety.
I don't know why.
Operators, again, they considerit an expense.
(48:56):
Okay.
When James can demonstrate, notthat this is a commercial forum,
but he can demonstrate thechange in behavior when you
implement all of the strategiesthat he has.
The Nice Brothers (49:06):
question
Ken Lucci (49:07):
it, is it the operators that perhaps are just,
you know, they're in their ownecho chamber.
They've been doing this for solong.
I haven't needed it up till now.
What is it?
The Nice Brothers (49:17):
So, so I, I, you know, if you go back 20
years to Tommy MA's trainingvideos
Ken Lucci (49:23):
God bless
The Nice Brothers (49:24):
and, you look at where it's come and, and now
it's, you know, the PACStraining program, which, you
know, Bruce and James havebuilt.
So it went from, you know, howto be a chauffeur to how to be a
safe chauffeur.
And that's what it's about.
It's.
Provides that safety culture foryour new employees.
And I could tell you from a mylimo perspective, after we
(49:46):
implemented, you know, pax, wesaw immediate, immediate
improvement in service delivery,safety, quantifiable increases
in survey scores across theboard.
So it was a fantastic, yeah.
So you have to live it.
It's, again, safety culture is,is something that, you know, is
across the board in your companyand you have to live it.
(50:08):
But, for folks that don't adoptthese platforms, whether it's
James' or someone else's, youhave to talk to other operators,
see what they're doing, and talkto people that, that, you know,
have adopted and say, you know,where have you seen the return
on investment?
Because we've all seen thereturn on investment.
So that's really the.
Ken Lucci (50:28):
if you're using it.
If you're using it,
The Nice Brothers (50:31):
Yeah, sadly, most of'em react, when it's too
late, or the challenges already,you know, uh, on their doorstep.
And, you know, that's one ofthe, those are probably the
people that, that are talking toyou about, you, know, how do
you, you know, get out thosesituations.
But, uh, you're right, you know,folks like Tim Delaney has done
a, you know, a a lot for theindustry.
His, his dad, uh, they insuredus for many, many years at, uh,
(50:54):
at flight time.
Great company at Lance to, uh,work.
They were pushing cameras 20years ago.
Yeah.
They were gi they were giving usthe cameras, correct.
They, they, they were offeringthe cameras, you know, for, uh,
for that.
And they were, you know, aheadof their time.
And, uh, they also had afantastic, you know, uh,
department that subrogatedagainst people who hit you, you
know, so.
There was, there was, you know,really, uh, you know, great, you
(51:16):
know, company there to, uh, towork with.
And, uh, we've solved thatproblem at the, uh, Hoffman
Transportation Group, uh, youknow, for the, for the moment by
having, uh, our own captive.
So that's one of the commitmentsthe family has made, for the 150
companies, uh, that they own in,in the multi vertical, space,
you know, is, is the fact thatthey set up their own captive,
(51:39):
which is, uh, fantastic.
Ken Lucci (51:41):
But you can't maintain the captive unless you
are maintaining maximum safety.
The Nice Brothers (51:46):
Correct?
Absolutely
Ken Lucci (51:48):
Absolutely and to me it's the ultimate competitive
differentiator as well.
Did you both see the situationwhere the Uber driver basically
cold cock that CEO down inCharleston?
The Nice Brothers (51:59):
incredible.
Oh yeah.
Incredible.
Ken Lucci (52:00):
Okay.
Well, you know, one of myclients gives that guy rides to
and from the airport.
But you know, for, for localtrips, I understand he uses
Uber.
But at the end of the day,safety is our ultimate
differentiator along withquality service.
And if you are delivering Sosoquality service and you're
delivering Soso safety, you arereally no better than the lowest
(52:22):
common denominator competitor inyour market.
you know, was thinking today Iam walking into the place that I
have lunch at, and they get alousy, uh, health score, a lousy
health score, and it, the HealthDepartment score, got plastered
on the front, and, and they haveto keep that up there for 30
days.
And I know the owner, he's alocal guy, I like to do business
(52:43):
with him, and he bought thefranchise and I said, listen,
what the hell happened?
He said, well, you know, we hada situation you know, with a
cleaning company.
I said, well, you betterstraighten that up because no
offense, I'm buying it today,but I'm not buying it tomorrow.
If we had to post a safety scoreon every one of our vehicles,
and so did the TNCs.
(53:03):
I think you'd have a completelydifferent market,
The Nice Brothers (53:06):
Yeah, as you saw from the NLA, posted, news
article that came out regardingthe assaults, you know, it, uh,
it's much more pervasive thanjust that one that you saw that
was all, all over the news.
And, it's sickening and, youknow, fast and cheap is not, the
way to go through life, uh, andto protect yourself from danger.
(53:29):
And unfortunately, that that's,you know, some of the, uh, the
situations that have transpiredbecause of the advent of these
TNC companies.
Ken Lucci (53:39):
no question.
But you know, you guys havemade, significant investments in
the, business, in yourbusinesses.
Where do you see theopportunities over the next five
years?
The Nice Brothers (53:48):
I think the opportunities are gonna be, uh,
in the group transportation.
Obviously, you know, we'relooking at whether it's, uh, you
know, AVS and, and robo taxis.
Obviously, you gotta keep aclose watch on that and see how
that's going to change ourindustry.
So we'll see what the, thechauffeur of today becomes in
the next five years?
But I think, uh, larger grouptransportation is gonna continue
(54:11):
to thrive.
And, you know, again, adoptionof technology.
we need to advance in technologyin order to stay competitive and
to stay, uh, you Relevant.
Agreed.
And I, I, I think that, youknow, um, it's a premium,
service.
and in the premium market, Ithink, um, you know, there's,
still a lot of, opportunity for,uh, for growth as we're seeing.
(54:34):
I think that a lot of the, uh,things that are going on in the,
uh, you know, the marketplacewill get settled, uh, regarding,
you know, tariffs and thingslike that.
but the premium marketplace aswell as the, uh, uh, meetings
and events marketplace, there'sa lot of that going on.
We lost half of the, uh, themotor coach companies in the US
(54:56):
during COVID and, the supplychain.
To rebuild that pool of vehiclesalso is an ongoing, challenge.
And, you know, they're, they'resubject to, uh, to tariffs as
well because they're notbuilding them America.
So that's, you know, somethingthat's, you know, on, on a lot
of people's radar as well.
(55:18):
as it continues to grow, wethink it'll be an area for
growth for all the.
Ken Lucci (55:25):
I agree, a thousand percent agree with both of those
sentiments.
I think that the larger vehiclesand the larger group moves first
of all, there's absolutelymarket insulation when you're
dealing with the top one to 2%of the travelers and a private,
and the best corporatetravelers, and having the
(55:46):
diversified fleet that takes youfrom the sedan, SUV, all the way
up to the motor coach and theability to do high touch
grouping meetings, the abilityto execute on any ground move is
the key, and that's yourprotection.
If you are obsessed with the lowprice airport ride, or frankly,
if you're obsessed with beingthe low cost motor coach
(56:08):
provider, you're gonna lose.
there is a commonality, and I,we never get into this, to have
the data that we have.
And, you know, shout out to mybusiness partner who's an
absolute genius of hisgeneration.
And we were talking thismorning, I said, you know,
client asked us about a piece ofdata and we had like 19, 20 data
(56:29):
points that we could share withthem.
The commonality that I find forthe most profitable businesses
the businesses that are one,two, or three in their market,
they're the most profitable andthey're growing regardless of,
you know, what life throws atthem is they're all priced in
the top one third in theircategories.
(56:50):
Now, I'm not saying that they'rethe lowest, priced on airports,
but they recognize that whenthey buy a brand new motor
coach.
They can't be charging the samethat a, that a, 25 year, old
coach operator charges.
They're, dealing with a premiumclient that likes the luxury
experience, that wants the 24hour operation that respects and
(57:14):
appreciates the level ofcustomer service that our
industry delivers.
And I do think that's where ouropportunity lies.
I think our shift is such thatthe motor coach industry, we're
gonna blend together and themotor coach operators that are
aging out okay, they've donewell and they're aging out, I
think that the chauffeurindustry is gonna capture more
(57:36):
of that market.
The Nice Brothers (57:37):
Yeah.
People are looking for that typeof, uh, end-to-end experience,
you know, when they're, whenthey're doing, uh, you know, any
types of programs, whether it's,you know, social or whether it's
corporate or, you know, any ofthose type of, you know, events.
Ken Lucci (57:51):
high touch board meetings,
The Nice Brothers (57:53):
they're all for a chauffeur experience,
right.
As opposed to a bus driverexperience.
Ken Lucci (57:58):
Correct, correct.
And that all comes back to, thisis circles back to where we
started.
It's the ability to always sayyes, regardless of what the
question is.
It's the ability to go the extramile on the service, take the
luggage, greet them at the doorof the motor coach, escort them
to their seat.
It's a leather seat.
It's an absolutely beautifulinterior.
(58:19):
It's a beautiful experience allaround.
I think that's gonna carry theday, And I also believe that,
you know, listen, there's a tonof aggregators on that side that
are trying to offer low price,but the fleet operators have to
stay in pat.
I'm not putting my 500,$600,000vehicle out for$99 an hour, 150,
whatever it is, because you'velow balled the client.
(58:42):
So I agree.
I think the opportunities lookgood.
I think the challenges are suchthat you have to be on top of
your customer service.
We talked about creating thesafe culture of safety.
To me, those two things are notmutually exclusive.
They go hand in hand.
I don't think you get thereunless you're making money,
making a profit.
You have to make a profit.
when you went to that bank for350,000 for all those vehicles,
(59:05):
they didn't ask for your smile,they asked for your financial
statements.
And of course, I bet you broughtyour brother with you.
Well, listen, this has been anexciting episode.
we started with what defined theoriginal business, which was
always saying yes.
Building a good team of peopleinternally, maximizing the use
(59:26):
of technology.
God knows, I wish we had, asoftware IT guy sitting in every
dispatch department andreservations department and
building the ultimate softwarefor us.
We didn't get into a lot ofsubjects, but we'll have to have
another episode of a, a thornbetween two roses again in the
future.
The Nice Brothers (59:45):
A.
Ken Lucci (59:48):
Absolutely.
Listen, I want to do a, aspecial shout out to, uh, Doreen
Rose, who you left out the bestpart of, of of working for
flight time, which was you, youfound the woman of your dreams.
The Nice Brothers (01:00:02):
That's true.
That is very true.
And, uh, she will tell you thatshe was there first.
She was, you know, she was thereover over 20 years by the time
we, uh, we stopped and she'sstill, uh, running the, uh, the
billing department now at,Dolphin.
So she's, uh, been an integralpart of our, uh, our success
and, you know, just as many,many others were.
And, and, uh, you know, it's,imperative to have, you know,
(01:00:25):
all those, you know, pieces ofthe puzzle in, place that, uh,
are there to have your back.
You know, especially when, uh,the business is, growing so much
and to make sure that somebody'swatching the money.
Ken Lucci (01:00:36):
you know, when somebody said to me the other
day, and we'll leave on this,is, you know, anybody can
operate a business during thegood times because a lot of
money coming in covers a lot ofsins.
But at the end of the day when,when the proverbial shit hits
the fan, you better have a goodteam of people and you better,
have good processes in place.
So I'm glad you guys, uh, as twobrothers came together in the
(01:00:59):
industry and I think theindustry is blessed to have, uh,
both Mike Rose from my limo.
And, uh, Tim Rose from DolphinTransportation and the Hoffman
family of companies.
guys, great to see you.
I would, anybody who's listeningto the podcast, search them out
at the cha for Driven NLA showin Dallas.
(01:01:19):
Quite frankly, they'll be thetallest guys walking down the,
down the corridor, but, uh,they're, they're both very
unique in their own ways they'rea plethora of, of great useful
information for new operators.
And again, thank you guys fortaking your time to be on the
Ground Transportation Podcast.
The Nice Brothers (01:01:37):
Ken.
And next time please, you know,uh, we'd love to, uh, do it with
James too, right?
That's right.
You know, so.
Ken Lucci (01:01:44):
That was a little bit of a consternation on our end.
We had a little bit of ascheduling problem, but
absolutely 100%.
And, uh, he's killing it outthere with Pax.
he's spending a lot of time onthe bus side developing the
defensive driving program.
he has, and, uh, I'm glad thatwe gave him a shout out and I'll
tell him you were asking forhim.
The Nice Brothers (01:02:02):
You got it.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to
(01:02:23):
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.
Well, good afternoon and welcome to another exciting
episode of the GroundTransportation Podcast.
My name is Ken Luci from DrivingTransactions.
I'm doing a solo, podcast, todaywithout my lovely and talented
partner in crime, James Blainefrom PAC's Training.
Uh, I, I understand he'straveling, probably training a
(00:49):
whole group of class Achauffeurs.
So, James, I miss you if you'reout there and if you're
listening, I am really blessedtoday.
my prayers have come true fromlast night, and I actually, this
is, this is actually happeningwhere I have two people that I
really call my friends in theindustry, and two guys that I
(01:12):
also consider to be seriousicons in the business.
You've both been in the businessfor a long time, and your
brothers.
and you're in the same room,which, and you're, you're
smiling, which is, which ispretty interesting.
I'm pleased to have, uh, and nowI didn't pick who was going to
be announced first, so don'tread into this.
(01:33):
Um, Mike Rose.
Mike Rose from my limo.
I think it might have to do withthe spend.
I'm not sure.
Anyway, Mike Rose from my limo,president of my limo, and Tim
Rose from Hoffman TransportationGroup.
dolphin Transportation inFlorida.
Tim, you're president of HoffmanTransportation.
(01:54):
Okay.
Well, I really appreciate youcoming today.
Um, we try to make thesepodcasts fun, uh, with
information that operators can,glean from, from, that they can
put into their operation.
And the whole idea is to makethem think.
Right?
So I couldn't think of a bettercouple of guests to have on
that.
Have your legacy in the space.
(02:15):
and whoever decides to go first,you guys can draw straws.
Tell us about your first chapterin the business.
The Nice Brothers (02:24):
Go ahead.
Well, you know, we, uh, ourfamily was in the, uh, leasing
and renta car business, Ken.
and while during, um, college Iworked for, uh, the family
business in the, uh, the rentthe car, you know, space.
And we, um, we used to deal witha lot of, you know, corporate,
(02:48):
Uh, accounts in the Meadowlandsarea where we were in New
Jersey, and it was a goodopportunity at that time to, uh,
to build up that leasing and,and Renta car business.
And this was really beforeenterprise was, uh, prominent on
every corner like they are now.
So that business was, uh, was,was fairly successful and, um,
(03:11):
you know, during college workedthere, uh, you doing different,
uh, positions and then we, um,we used to get a lot of people
requesting to pick them up anddrop them off at hotels locally
and for the rented cars.
And, and then, you know, lateron people would, uh, would ask
us to take them, uh, to theairport'cause they couldn't find
transportation.
(03:31):
And we, uh, started looking intothat.
one we found was that there was,you know, a, an opportunity on
the, transportation side in, uh,in New Jersey's ripe.
Uh,'cause there's a lot of, youknow, big corporations,
headquarters, pharmaceuticalcompanies and other things.
So we, um, we were very, uh,successful at going to some of
those companies who we hadrented cars, uh, to, and, uh,
(03:55):
and trying to see what they did.
And they all used taxi services.
So they were, uh, were prettyhappy to have a, uh, a
transportation company that theycould use that was more, you
know, professional than whatthey were used to.
Ken Lucci (04:08):
what year was this?
Roughly?
The Nice Brothers (04:10):
Early seventies.
Uh, no, my, my brother startedthe rental car business in 1979,
but, uh, this was, uh, in 1985during, uh, college.
So it years for.
Ken Lucci (04:22):
Wow.
Wow.
And Mike, when did you join thefamily business?
The Nice Brothers (04:26):
So, you know, in, in the early years, uh,
probably during, you know,college or during high school,
the summertimes I would spend asat the business, whether it was
cleaning cars, fixing up thingsaround the office, et cetera.
and as Tim said, it was only a,you know, a car rental company
at that point.
Then during college, I continuedto work there part-time as the
limousine and car rentalbusinesses grew, um, and then
(04:50):
eventually to a, full-timeposition overseeing and managing
the car rental division, um,where we grew that to multiple
branches.
Um, and I think we had 450 Rentacars, uh, at, at, you know, the
final stages before I left thecompany.
Ken Lucci (05:06):
And, and Tim, when do you, when would you say the
limousine side of things tookoff?
The Nice Brothers (05:12):
what we discovered was that.
We were doing business with on.
Panasonics, the Hoffman, theRoches, the, the Becton
Dickinson's of the world.
They were, uh, you know, theywould get some, you know, rent a
car replacements, but on a dailybasis they were doing, you know,
(05:34):
5, 10, 15, 20 rides to the, uh,the airports because the, these
were their headquarters.
And, um, so the activity was,was significant compared to just
the, uh, the Renta car business.
And they complimented each otherbecause they were happy with our
service on the one side.
And, um, I can remember, like itwas, it was yesterday walking
(05:55):
into and, and, um, the officeand them handing me an envelope
with 30 trip tickets in it.
And the, uh, the old man said tome, he said.
Take this, envelope kid anddon't screw it up.
And he says, you'll have a bigopportunity.
And I, I went back to the officeand, uh, I shared it with my,
uh, older brother and I said,uh, I think we hit the jackbot
(06:16):
here.
And, uh, that's, that's kind of,you know, how it, how it took
off.
And we went from there.
We joined a program called ClubChauffeur, which was a Diners
Club program, through a network.
And in that network everybodyhad one car and was the driver.
And we had a pretty significant.
(06:37):
Fleet of, you know, uh,passenger vans, all different
types of, of vehicles.
And we said to them, if we havemore than one or two drivers,
could we put them on the networkas well?
And they said, sure.
So, uh, through that Clumpchafer program, we started to
get, you know, kind ofconsistent work.
It helped fill in the gaps.
and, and that really was, uh,was helpful.
(06:59):
We did the, uh, anytime theyneeded big things done, we had,
you know, 15 passenger vans.
So they, they'd call us and say,we need, you know, five vans for
the, uh, the Prince, you know,concert at Madison Square Garden
for, uh, for 10 days.
And we were the only people inthat network at that time who
were able to provide that, youknow, type of, uh,
(07:21):
transportation.
And we
Ken Lucci (07:23):
the name of the company at Go.
The Nice Brothers (07:25):
State leasing and rent a car.
And then, you know, garden StateLimousine was the, uh, was the,
uh, transportation company.
Ken Lucci (07:31):
When did you, when did it become, or tell me the
transition between Garden StateLimousine and Flight Time.
The Nice Brothers (07:39):
So, um, in, uh, 1997, um, I guess we, uh,
there was, uh, a transactionthat was contemplated between,
uh, precept, business systemsthat was gonna buy, uh, garden
(08:00):
State at that time.
And, uh, my brother wanted to,uh, to sell the, uh, the
transportation business, at thatpoint, that summer, I, uh, I
left the business and, um, youknow.
All of the, uh, the peoplereported to me as well as all
the customers.
So we, we had a pretty good, uh,opportunity there.
(08:24):
I didn't want to be, uh, partof, uh, that transaction.
So I went off on my own and, uh,I bought, you know, half of, uh,
flight time to continue what wehad been, you know, building.
Ken Lucci (08:36):
Now, when did Mike join you at flight time?
The Nice Brothers (08:39):
So just to take a step back, so I was at
Garden State, you know, with Timfor those many years, and then I
left prior to him.
So I left, you know, probably afew months prior to him.
Um, and then I, I took asabbatical from the ground
transportation space and wentinto, uh, emergency dispatching
and managing 9 1 1 Center.
So I was at the state police inNew Jersey and then a, a local
(09:02):
police department in New Jersey.
So I was overseeing all thecommunications and 9 1 1 centers
and staffing for, for those, uh,facilities for probably about,
10 years.
So, I took a 10 year sabbatical.
I think I joined flight time in2005.
2005.
Yeah.
Ken Lucci (09:17):
so so let's just stop there for a second.
how would you say yourexperience on the emergency
services side and dispatchinghas helped you in setting up the
dispatching and logisticsdepartment?
At my limo, I, I know it's you,you guys have, I've been there.
I've, I've seen the multiplescreens, the many screens.
tell me a little bit about the,the commonalities between those
(09:39):
two things.
The Nice Brothers (09:40):
Well, I think, you know, the first thing
is you, you have to have, youknow, seamless communication.
and obviously you have to enableyour teams with the technology
and the tools that areavailable.
and one of the things, you know,that I learned from my dispatch.
Experience, especially the statepolice where we were in a
dispatch center, whichdispatched the entire northern
half of the state of New Jersey,we answered a couple million 9 1
(10:04):
1 calls a month.
So we were operating in adispatch center with, you know,
10 or 15 dispatchers on a shiftwith multiple screens, you know,
lots of technology around us.
so that was really, you know,when I wanted to, you know, uh,
build this office space here formy limousine, I said, you know,
I wanna give the tools and thetechnology that my team needs to
(10:25):
really do the job effectively.
The days of dispatching from,you know, when we first started
we had paper trip tickets and wewere moving them around on a, a,
a peg board, you know, completedtrips, moved down to the bottom
and, you know, assign the nextday's work.
Those days are over.
Everything is now, you know,technology and app based.
So.
My dispatchers have a samsarascreen on where they're watching
(10:47):
the telematics.
They have the Santa Cruzscreens, They're using, you
know, flight tracking software.
They're using text messagingsoftware.
So at any one given time, if Igo into my dispatch department,
I look at my dispatcher screens,he could have 15, 20 tabs open
up on a web browser.
So, by giving them four screensor multiple screens, it allows
them to move those windows asthey see fit and really do their
(11:11):
job more effectively.
So I think that's really thekey, you know, takeaway from,
the emergency dispatch side ofit is having the technology and
the tools available for yourdispatchers to make the job
easier.
Ken Lucci (11:25):
Well, the other thing I noticed when I was there is
it's an incredibly sterileenvironment and it's quiet.
The Nice Brothers (11:32):
the days of, you know, Louie and the, uh,
cage and from taxi Dec cab areover.
we've all been to, you know,other transportation companies,
whether it's black car companiesin the city and in Long Island.
You know, they, some of themstill have that type of
environment.
And especially, you know, thecorporate world when you're
handling large scale events,when a, a booker or an admin
(11:53):
calls up, they don't wanna hearscreaming in the background.
They wanna hear a, you know, acontrolled environment where,
your call takers, yourdispatchers are controlling the
call.
They're thoroughly trainedproperly, uh, you know, to
handle the, uh, the call and,uh, you know, whatever the, the
request is
Ken Lucci (12:12):
Well, and I, I always say this, chaos in the office or
chaos in dispatch usuallytranslates to chaos on the
street.
Where somebody on the streetdoesn't know what they're doing,
ends up making mistakes.
So take us back to Tim.
Take us back to 2005, and I wantyou to think back then what were
the biggest challenges to thatbusiness?
(12:33):
And now let's translate it intowhat challenges are there today?
What challenges did you haveback then?
The Nice Brothers (12:41):
So when I, when I took over flight time,
um, in, uh, 97, to Mike's point,the first thing I did was, um, I
threw out all the paper becauseat that point, at Garden State,
we had transitioned to, youknow, electronic, you know,
dispatching.
and so that was long ago.
So when I, when I came in, theyhad a great, you know, framework
and a great crew of people inplace at Flight Town.
(13:05):
I had been there for many, manyyears.
If I could just interrupt realquick, I think, you know, when
we left Garden State, we hadprobably 175 cars in the limo
fleet and 450 rent Acar.
So mm-hmm.
When he says that wetransitioned to, you know,
dispatching via software asopposed to paper, that was a
pretty big feat You know, duringthat time period for a company
(13:25):
of our size.
Yeah, absolutely.
you know, and we had great, youknow, people there as, as well,
um, you know, at Garden Statethat grown up many out there.
They just hadn't adopted the,uh, the electronic technology.
(13:47):
You know, we were in able toincrease our efficiency by 20%
overnight, uh, with the, uh, thebusiness that, they had.
And we went from, you know, 4million in business in 97, in,
in five years we were doing 40million.
and that
Ken Lucci (14:05):
10.
That's literally the 10 x growththat everybody likes to
The Nice Brothers (14:09):
correct, but, and, and a so over a hundred
people came with us over the,transition, to fly time.
who had worked for us throughthe years and, uh, you know.
Many of the, uh, the clients as,as well, they, uh, they wanted
to, uh, to continue with, uh,the team that was in place.
So it was, it was a really, youknow, great opportunity.
(14:31):
and from there, we doubled itagain, in size, at, some point
in 2001, we had built a, uh, abrand new facility and, uh, we
were scheduled to move in theweek of nine 11.
Ken Lucci (14:44):
Wow.
The Nice Brothers (14:45):
Yeah.
And, uh, it was a big facilityfor us, big move for for the
whole company.
We owned the property.
It was, it was just, you know,fantastic.
And we were very excited.
you know, we made it throughnine 11, uh, very difficult, you
know, and then being in the NewYork market, you know, and
challenges for, uh, for all thefamilies who were involved in,
(15:06):
in that area.
and then a few years later Ijust, I just found myself.
That the, the business hadoutgrown the people who were
there and we needed, you know,some, super smart people to come
in and, and lead the way.
So I kind of ambushed him.
I invited him out to dinner andI said, Hey, why don't we have
(15:28):
dinner?
You know, one night it was asteak dinner I couldn't refuse.
And he goes, why?
I said, well, it's just yourbrother.
I wanna, I wanna take you out,you know, and, and, and have you
for dinner.
So I'm, I'm telling him aboutsome of the issues and he goes,
yeah, it sounds like, thetransportation business that I
left.
I said, no, no, it's much betternow been, you know.
(15:57):
So it took a little cajoling.
but, uh, you know, but finally,uh, you know, uh, you know, he
came along, uh, you know, withus and, uh, you know, worked.
Ken Lucci (16:07):
What function?
What function did he, when heinitially came in,
The Nice Brothers (16:11):
Operations, you know, manager, you know, uh,
where he was.
He was able to, uh, to help us,you know, uh, you know, lead
the, the operations sidebecause, you know, Mike's forte
is, operational excellence aswell as, you know, as you
pointed out all the technologyand, and, uh, the adoption, of
(16:31):
that and the best ways to do it.
So he's very process driven and,um, you know, that's something
that, you know, we really, youknow, really needed at that
time.
Yeah.
And one thing, you know, he hada, uh, a great team in place
already, and a lot of them werelegacy employees from the, the
prior ownership.
So he was obviously concernedabout bringing in his brother or
(16:54):
somebody new over those folks.
So, you know, I, I came in at alower level, but I was able to,
you know, win those people over.
And obviously they understood,you know, what we were trying to
do to help.
Build the business, bring bettertechnology.
So I think, you know, when Ijoined, we had the one location,
(17:14):
and then, you know, by the timeit was sold, we had, uh, six
different locations around thecountry, six different branch
offices around the country,which we had all
Ken Lucci (17:22):
How big, How big did you grow it from?
So you, the, the, the legacybusiness was your
father-in-law's business?
Correct.
And
The Nice Brothers (17:29):
correct.
Ken Lucci (17:31):
that was, at that time it was a$4 million
operation.
The Nice Brothers (17:34):
Right.
Ken Lucci (17:35):
And then how did you get it to 40 million?
What strategies did you use?
What do you think, if you had topoint to the top three things
that that allowed thatexponential growth?
What was it?
The Nice Brothers (17:49):
I think it's, it's all about the people.
It's, it's all about the people,you know, and, and the only
thing that ever differentiatedus, you know, uh, was the, the,
the great people who were partof our team.
And, uh, you know, that that wasdefinitely, you know, the, uh,
the differentiator.
Everybody's got shiny cars and,you know, and, and, uh,
(18:12):
different technologies andthings like that.
And the people and who care,and, you know, will go the extra
mile for, uh, for the customerare really the, the most
important, you know, piece ofthe puzzle.
And, and like I said, a hundredof them from the original
company came, came with us, youknow, from the chauffeur pool,
all, all the way up to thedispatchers.
(18:33):
And that was the key.
I think when you look back at,you know.
Those early two thousands or mid2000 years, the thing that
really differentiated us wascustomer service and the fact
that we never said no.
Mm-hmm.
And whether it was handling anevent, whether it was
specialized billing andreporting that you wanted.
If our software didn't have it,we built it.
(18:54):
Mm-hmm.
You know, there was never a noto our clients, and that's what
clients liked about us.
In addition to, you know,beautiful cars, great chauffeur,
great people answering thephones, it was our ability to
say yes and deliver whateverthey needed that really helped
differentiate us.
And I think that's what ourclients would say.
(19:16):
I, I, it was funny, I had a, Ihad a call the other day with
one of our top, uh, VP of, uh,sales who had worked for us.
And we had, we had a, adiscussion the other day and,
and such a great guy.
And, and, uh, I was talking tohim and he said, I can remember
coming out of sales, you know,visits with clients and, you
know, there'd be three peoplefrom the team there along with,
(19:38):
with me.
And you know, they'd look andthey'd say, we can do that.
And I'd say, well, don't worry.
We'll figure it out.
And that was, that was, we, didyou.
Ken Lucci (19:51):
Yeah.
And there's a, there's a lot tothat.
There's a tremendous amount tothat that I think a lot of
companies have forgotten.
the customer does not exist tolive by our rules or to, to bend
to what operationally, is,convenient for us.
The ability to say yes in theservice business.
I don't know why that's ananathema to so many companies,
(20:13):
but it seems to be, if, unlessit fits into their definition of
convenience.
I don't know how they survive.
The ability to say yes we can isthe difference between good and
great?
To me it's, it's totally thedifference.
You, you, you know, you hit uponsomething, everybody, and I see
it all the time on Facebook, wesee it all the time on Facebook
(20:34):
and we laugh about it together,is, oh, I got a brand new
Escalade.
It's 118,000.
I have a brand new sprinter Ijust paid 208,000 for, or
whatever the case is.
and at the end of the day, Isubmit to you until you tell me
whether you agree with this.
You know, a three-year-oldEscalade with a fantastic
chauffeur and a company thatsays, yes, we can do this.
(20:58):
Don't worry about it.
We've got you covered Everytime, you know, that beats out
brand new vehicle that came offthe lot and a so-so chauffeur
and a so-so customer experiencewhere you know, the person's
asking dispatch.
It, it just doesn't, to me,that's the difference between
good and great.
That's the difference betweenjust a so-so level service and
(21:21):
top shelf, five star, um,customer service.
The Nice Brothers (21:26):
It's, it's funny you mentioned, you know,
the, the vehicle type in thosemore expensive vehicles.
You know, when the Lincoln Towncar was decommissioned to end of
life by four, uh, we startedswitch.
And looking at different vehicleoptions.
So we, we tried a prototype or abeta test with some Chrysler,
three hundreds.
We did it in our Philadelphiamarket and ran'em all in
(21:47):
Philadelphia.
And we sent out surveys, clientsurveys after like three or four
months.
And we said, you know, we'retransitioning vehicles.
What do you think about the, thenew vehicles that you've been
experiencing in the Philadelphiamarket?
If we were to transition tothese, you know, full-time in
all places, what, what would youthink?
And I think we had 4,000respondents who said, I don't
care what you pick me up in, aslong as the vehicle's clean the
(22:09):
chauffeur knows where he isgoing and they're on time.
So those three factors, inaddition to, you know, the
quality customer service whenthey're making the booking and
the correct billing on thebackside, those are really the
factors that drive your businessand really define what customer
service is in this business.
Ken Lucci (22:29):
And no pushback when, so in, sometimes I'll walk into
a dispatching department and thedispatchers is probably, I think
you'd agree, one of the mosthectic.
Positions in the company if youlet it be, if they let it be, if
that's the culture, if theculture is more towards, you
know, Louis the taxi dispatcher,you know, then, traffic control,
(22:52):
ground, ground control typething.
But I see some dispatcherspushing back with clients on the
phone and I, I think they losesight.
Yes.
Your job is about logistics, butyour job is also mo more
importantly about managingcustomer expectations.
So you are in one of the busiesttrafficked areas in the country.
(23:14):
I mean, how do you deal with,uh, a car that you think is not
gonna be on time?
How do you, save the, thereputation when the vehicle is,
things are not going as well?
Well as planned,
The Nice Brothers (23:27):
I, I think for the New York market, advent
of, telematics has completelychanged that game, so.
When we started dispatchingyears ago via paper without GPS,
we were relying on Tony to tellus how far he was from Newark
Airport, and hopefully Tony wasgiving us an accurate ETA or the
client would be very upset.
(23:48):
Today, in real time we can checkthat, you know, through a
variety of systems.
We have, you know, our primarytelematics system, Samsara, that
we're utilizing.
We also have a secondarytelematics system on the
tablets, the chauffeur's tabletsthat we can check their timing.
So that really enables us to bemuch more proactive when it
comes to monitoring, chauffeur'sarrival times and whether or not
(24:11):
they're gonna make, theirpickups on time.
So it gives us, you know, a moreadvanced view of whether or not
we're going to be on time if weneed to make a change.
And having a larger fleet,obviously that helps you.
Puzzle pieces around the eventof a, you know, potential
service.
Yeah.
And, and, and at flight time inour heyday, uh, Ken, we were
(24:31):
doing over, over 3000 trips aday system wide.
So we had built technology.
Surrounding that to Mike's pointabout, you know, if it wasn't,
available, we, built it.
know, we had a, uh, a team oftechnology folks that, you know,
grew up in the business with us.
And, we never said no.
We said, you know, we told themto go build the space shuttle,
(24:52):
you know, they'd build it andwe'd find, folks who would, uh,
we could pay to, uh, to be onour team.
And, you know, at that time, we,built, you know, many, many
things including a global,affiliate rate engine.
We built technology to, to trackall of the, uh, the vehicles and
countdown to, you know, whenthey were gonna, be at their,
their next job or, available in,in the next zone.
(25:15):
that was a big piece of thepuzzle in order for us to, uh,
you know, to be able to reallyexpand that business.
We built M-S-S-M-S technologybefore it was even a thing.
prior to being offered by any ofthe software providers, we had
it, we built it.
Yeah.
We got shuttle booking tools.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, we had all ofthese things, that we built
through, you know, ourdevelopers built Yeah.
(25:36):
That were add-ons to ourexisting software platform, but
they were integrated.
as I said earlier, it was about,you know, we could do it if a
customer asked, we could do it.
And we delivered it.
We took over Virgin Atlantic,the program in New York.
It was 200 JFK pickups and dropoffs a day.
Said to, uh, to them, we said,well, you know, all these
(25:57):
international cell phones thatpeople are arriving, you know,
they're texting back and forth.
What happens to the text messageyou know, if if they respond to
it, they said, oh, it just fallson the floor.
Nobody responds to it.
We said, huh.
So, so we built the technologyto read the text messages, and
then to have them go to thedispatch department because it
(26:18):
was especially important whenyou're picking up people at
office buildings in, in New YorkCity that, said, you know, I'm,
I'm coming out the, the door, on35th Street instead of 36th
Street.
You take an hour to go aroundthe block if you move.
So, we trained if it was forwithin an hour of that, we sent
the message not only to thedispatcher, we sent it to the
driver.
(26:38):
So we did all of that and uh,you know, we, uh, we ended up at
the point, you know, uh, lateron where we bought the software
company for five and a halfmillion dollars.
You know, that was af and youknow, we had, we had customized
it, you know, so, so much and,so well, that the trips would
come in electronically from allthe booking channels.
(26:59):
And if it was for a network tripanywhere in, in the world, it
would automatically be routed tothe network provider who, uh,
who provided that, uh, thatservice for us with real time
pricing and, you know,availability and mm-hmm.
All, all the, the bells andwhistles, some of them that, you
know, a lot of operators don'thave today, unfortunately.
Right.
And we should.
(27:19):
Mm-hmm.
Ken Lucci (27:20):
correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason why it
worked so well was because inreal time you took a problem,
you took an operational problem,and you put it minds on top of
it to solve it.
Whereas I think everybody in theindustry would agree at this
point that there is a large gapbetween the day-to-day operation
(27:44):
of a business and theintricacies of today's operation
and the software companies, theyalmost exist in a vacuum.
I, I think, to me, isfrustrating because what you
proved with, with flight timeand owning AF and all the things
you added to it was you cansolve these problems if you
understand the operationalissue.
The Nice Brothers (28:05):
Right.
the key was, you know, you hadpeople involved, in operations
as well as the IT side, that,and they understood both sides
of the puzzle.
So our IT folks were industryveterans who understood travel
ground transportation, who livedin it, who worked in it at some
point.
So they weren't just, you know,software developers sitting in
(28:27):
a, a room somewhere developingcode.
They understood thetransportation space, and that's
really the key.
Mm-hmm.
And in 1997, for example, whenthey, they first came out with
the, the technology that laterbecame, you know, uh, Saturn
and, and, and ground span, wewere the, uh, the first company
on that.
And, you know, we.
(28:47):
We went to, you know, to CarlsonTravel and installed the
software, the first install of,uh, the Genesis reservation
system, you know, in 1997 at,uh, you know, a division of
Bayer pharmaceuticals and onevery computer in the travel
department.
And we were off to the races.
From there, we went to thousandsand thousands of electronic
(29:09):
transactions from, you know,corporations all over the
country.
Ken Lucci (29:14):
So flash forward today.
What do you see?
As you know, the reason why Iwanted you both on here is there
are not too many people.
That had successfully gone fromseveral chapters and done really
well, hit it out of the park,and then had a chance to be at
the helm of another ship and doit again.
Now, in Mike's case, and I, Ihear it out in the marketplace,
(29:38):
my limo was a nice sleeper of acompany.
And then Mike, is now reallyputting it into warp speed.
Um, as, as, as, uh, you're a 50,50% owner now, right, Mike?
And just to be clear, Tim is notan owner at all in my limo, just
so everybody knows that.
Okay.
(29:59):
But my limo was a great brand,but it was, in my estimation, at
least before you took the helmof it, it was just there.
Whereas now you're pushing theenvelope.
you're, you're post on socialmedia.
I see you out in themarketplace.
I see you at every associationand.
You are definitely one of thetop three, top five in that
marketplace, and you're acontender, I think formidable as
(30:22):
far as competing with.
Now in Tim's case, we dealtwith, the Hoffman family of
companies when we, sold pureluxury and they were interesting
as a buyer.
Very interesting as a buyerstill are, but I never heard
Hoffman mentioned in terms of acontender as a network until you
(30:46):
came on the scene, until theybought Dolphin and basically put
you in charge of thetransportation side.
So you're both at the helm of,of some, you know, pretty
exciting stuff.
what are your biggestchallenges, and what do you see
the biggest opportunities of thenext five years?
What are your biggest challengesfirst, and then let's hit the
opportunities.
The Nice Brothers (31:07):
So I think I, you know, I'll start, uh, from
a, from a company perspective, Ithink, you know, you, as you
mentioned, my limo company'sbeen around for a long time,
over 40 years.
Great business.
Ken Lucci (31:18):
Legacy brand.
Nicely known.
The Nice Brothers (31:21):
top three as far as fleet size in, you know,
the, the, the marketplace.
but with the thing that, youknow, it didn't have, it didn't
have the name recognition in thecorporate circles.
So one of the things that Inoticed when I came here and
when I went out to, corporatetravel events, GBTA events,
people would say, oh, you know,how long have you been in
business if we've never heard ofyou.
And I, I told them 40 years, andthey would be shocked.
(31:43):
So we've really focused on brandrecognition and getting our name
out there.
Spending a lot of extra dollarson advertising and marketing.
as far as, you know, industrychallenges, I think, you know,
regardless of what market you'rein, the largest challenge for
any of us is, insurance at thispoint.
Um, and beyond that, I would sayis, you know, technology and
(32:07):
being able to keep up withtechnology.
I think we're behind the eightball as it relates to
technology, and those two are,really the, key factors.
And again, I think it's anationwide problem with
unlicensed operators, takingshare of market from us.
So we have to work twice as hardto.
(32:28):
Deliver the same amount of tripsand revenue that we did five, 10
years ago.
So, you know, again, customerloyalty, delivering that, that
great customer experience iskey.
and being in front of people topof mind, because if we're not
top of mind, somebody else isgonna be there to take them to
the airport, so,
Ken Lucci (32:47):
A hundred percent staying top of mind and making
sure they know everything thatyou do.
I had a conversation with anoperator the other day that
we've, we've kind of usheredthem into the motor coach space
and we did an analysis for'emand said, look, look at your top
20 clients.
They obviously love you becausethey're using your sedans and
SUVs.
Not so much on Vans, not so muchon Minis and not one motor coach
(33:12):
reservation yet.
These are all opportunities, sothat's a good thing.
But top of mind, we're only, youknow, one trip away from losing
an account and they're notsitting on our website trying to
figure out how to use us.
We constantly have to becommunicating with them, and I
know you're doing that.
Because you, you know,everywhere I turn around at
(33:33):
association meetings, you'rethere.
and I know some of the otherstuff you're trying to do on the
corporate side.
So let's, we're gonna circleback on insurance'cause that's a
big topic.
But Tim, what do you see as yourbiggest challenges as you, as
you put everything together andwhere do you see the
opportunities over the nextfive?
The Nice Brothers (33:51):
So, you know.
I stayed on to be, uh, uh,chairman of the board, um, north
America after Addison Lee boughtthe business in, uh, 2017 and,
um, in, in, uh, 2019, moved on.
I had a house in, Florida formany years.
And when I went down there, Iwas, I was renovating my house
(34:12):
and I said to my wife, I said,I'm gonna buy the biggest
company in, in Naples, just fun.
And she said, are you out ofyour mind?
And I said, well, I said, Ijust, you know, had the largest
sale in the industry's history.
And I said, I'm, I'm, I'm onlyin my fifties and I'm kind of,
you know, Jones do something.
And, uh, so, um, you know, webought, uh, dolphin in September
(34:32):
of 19.
And as everybody knows, youknow, we we had huge plans, lots
of great things, planned to, uh,for, uh, for Dolphin, at that
time.
And, um.
then COVID hit as everybodyknew, and, and we spent the
next, two years of our life.
I think that, you know, it's a,it's a, uh, gap in everybody's
resume.
What'd you do for two years?
(34:53):
Well, what we did was, you know,the public started ringing from
all the, uh, the local operatorswho had big problems.
They had challenges that their,their insurance was, uh, was,
uh, they couldn't pay it ontheir vehicles.
Their cars weren't gonna getrepossessed.
They had personal guarantees,and we said, well, why don't you
come with us?
We got a, a parking lot here ofover a hundred cars, and if it
(35:16):
comes back, we'll put, you know,some of those cars to do your
work.
And we'll pay you every nickelthat it was worth in 2019.
So we started signing them up'cause the cars had value.
They dumped their fleet.
I sold a couple of them, theirfleets in one day.
You know, some of'em had 20cars, you know, one, one check,
you know, was written and, andthey were happy to get out of
(35:38):
it.
And, uh, we put together, uh, adeal there with, uh, you know,
six or seven companies, um, youknow, several in, uh, in
Sarasota, several in Naples, andyou know, a big one in Miami.
And, um, we put it all togetherand, you know, getting rid of
all the equipment.
We never envisioned the supplychain issues when it, it came
back.
(35:59):
But, uh, we figured that out andthe, the staffing issues as
well.
so when it was all said anddone, you know, we had it all on
one platform.
You, we, the time to integrateeverything so that we're basking
Robs on the front end, but onthe back it's all completely
seamless.
Mike would've been proud of meas a matter of fact, you know,
to, uh, to do that.
(36:20):
But I had the time.
Ken Lucci (36:21):
sounds like a, it sounds like a little bit of the
operational efficiency mighthave rubbed off brother to
brother.
The Nice Brothers (36:27):
So, uh, and at, at, later on, we, uh, you
mentioned the, uh, the Hopman,uh, you know, family of
companies.
Uh, later on they, uh, they werelooking for, uh, platform
because they had bought, to yourpoint, several companies around
the country.
Uh, we had a platform because wehad, you know, bought the seven
companies and fully integratedthem.
And they liked the fact that wewere a platform that that could,
(36:50):
put that together for them.
Uh, in addition to that, theyhad, you know, bought the best
in class providers all over the,uh, the country, which really
was exciting to me to work with.
Those, those folks, and many of'em met them work for us in our
affiliate network in, in flighttime for, uh, for many years.
But, All great, companies and,you know, great opportunity to
(37:10):
work together with them and thefamily of, uh, of companies.
You know, the Hoffmans have beengreat.
it's a multi vertical,multi-billion dollar company
that, you know, has a lot ofopportunity to help these owners
who are, are looking to, uh, todo a transaction and a
transition.
And we continue to, uh, to dothat.
And we're focused on the, uh,the premium market.
(37:33):
That's really the, the businessthat we're in.
Um, and, uh, Mike's doing thesame in, uh, in my limo, he's
taking it to the next level.
he just hasn't, and, uh, Howard,the, uh, the original owner and
Stu, great people know them for,uh, 30, 40 years and had a great
business.
And they're excited that Mikeand the team here are leading it
to the next level.
Ken Lucci (37:54):
So, let's get, let's circle back on the insurance
piece because this is, this is,uh, I, I, think there are a lot
of operators that are still osostriches and I think there's a
lot of operators who areblindsided when they come to
renewal time and their insurancehas gone up 40%.
And the, common refrain I hearis, well quote, my loss runs
(38:17):
aren't that bad.
and it's just, I have to shakemy head.
They come to us in one of twoways.
Number one, they come to us tosay, I need to sell my business
because my fleet insurance hasgone up to a point where I can't
afford it.
I don't have the money for thedown payment.
That's number one.
Or number two, they'll come tous through a buyer, through
(38:39):
another operator.
Who would they have called withthe same situation, and instead
of selling the company on theopen market, they'll be forced,
they'll sell it to a friendlyoperator.
This has happened, no, no lessthan a dozen times in the past
90 days.
And the commonalities is, it'scertainly in the tri-state
(39:02):
market.
We're seeing it in the Floridamarket.
We're seeing it in California,but we're also seeing it in
Michigan.
So I think people are still notgrasping that this is somebody
else's problem.
No, it's not.
I actually have a client thatwas in a captive and his loss
runs were, quote, not that bad,but he got kicked out.
(39:25):
He basically, my estimation,took the eye off the ball.
So how do you create a, cultureof safety and how do you
mitigate, against thecatastrophic accident or the
catastrophic event?
How do you instill safety, uh,into your operations?
The Nice Brothers (39:44):
So, uh, I'll start.
So one of the, you know, thethings that's, that's really
interesting.
I was just reading a, a reportthat's gonna be published
shortly regarding insurance in,in our industry.
And one of the stats that justmade my head shake was only 46%
of folks in the industry areutilizing cameras and
telematics.
(40:05):
So probably in 2002.
We started using, the earlydrive cam camera systems.
Yeah.
Okay.
And,
Ken Lucci (40:16):
Yep.
The Nice Brothers (40:16):
the immediate return on investment was
amazing.
Oh my God.
Not only, you know, phantomdamage to the vehicles, wear and
tear and, and maintenance on thevehicles, but also having that,
view of what actually happenedin the accident.
The stopping the, he said, shesaid, so, you know, as an
industry we have to do betterbecause if only 46% of our,
(40:38):
industry folks are usingcameras, that's a real problem.
Yeah.
And until we get to a hundredpercent adoption as an industry,
we're gonna continue to have a,an insurance crisis.
So.
The losses, you know, the, thecatastrophic losses that you
talk about, you know, they arecertainly increased by the lack
of telematics usage.
They're increased by thesenuclear verdicts, and the tort
(41:01):
reform that needs to happen inthese key markets.
When you drive through, whetherit's New Jersey Drive through
Philadelphia, Florida, andthere's a billboard every 600
yards for another personalinjury attorney, that's a
problem.
And we've talked about it as anindustry and all the different
associations.
It's a state by state issue.
It needs to be tackled on astate by state issue, but on A
(41:24):
national level, something needsto happen, because it's putting
people outta business every day.
Yeah.
Ken Lucci (41:29):
A hundred percent.
And, what, gets me when I talkto these operators, you know,
there's one specific case,actually a couple of them where
the operators came to us acouple years ago wanting to sell
their businesses.
And one of my key questions is,well, what do you think it's
worth?
And when we are so far apart andso far out on reality, I say,
(41:50):
you know, that's, that's justnot what these things are worth.
In both cases, recently theycame back to me with this
insurance crisis, and I remindedthem that when we talked two
years ago, you weren't making aprofit.
You were paying yourself a niceincome, but you weren't making a
profit so you couldn't updateyour fleet, and you looked upon
(42:11):
telematics as an expense.
Okay?
To me, you have to change that.
It's like a gym membership it'snot an expense unless you don't
use it.
It.
Telematics, if you are usedproperly, can change the muscle
memory of your drivers.
I'll give you a a a, this is areal world example.
(42:32):
About three weeks ago, I had asituation where a car was
stopped on a main drag right infront of me, and I was coming up
over a hill and, and the vehiclewas stopped in the middle of the
street and it's a 45 mile anhour street, double yellow line.
And I beat my horn and the guydidn't have his hazards on.
He had a, it was a boat trailer.
(42:52):
And I was like in shock becausethe car in front of me had to
swerve onto the other side ofthe road.
Well, the guy got upset that Ibeat my horn.
So long story short, he didn'tpull me out of the, the truck.
I went and I got cameras and theguy says to me, do you want a
camera that looks inside andbeing the vain little bastard
that I am?
Said, sure.
Right.
(43:12):
Well wait a minute.
Then I looked at the, then Ilooked at the footage.
I'm like, this, I never would'veimagined the number of frigging
times.
My eyes are not on the road.
I'm looking at the dog.
I'm looking like this.
I never would've imagined, and Ihaven't had an accident in
years, but that's not the point.
(43:35):
if I didn't look at thetelematics and I didn't see my
behavior, I wouldn't havechanged it.
So when I look at an operatorwho says it's an expense, to me,
it's the ultimate training toolof your chauffeurs, because
they're alone and they thinkthey're good drivers.
The Nice Brothers (43:52):
Completely shortsighted, thinking of it as
as an expense what it is.
You know, it, it's a way to, uh,to make sure you train your
chauffeurs.
And how do you te protect yourbusiness from going outta
business?
What keeps us in business,right?
one of the most important pieceof the puzzle, unfortunately
today is the insurance.
(44:13):
And if you don't, next thing youknow, the insurance company is
your partner.
Okay, so it's the biggest issuegoing on.
Mike and I are very involvedwith associations.
I'm involved with the NationalLimousine Association, the
Florida Limousine Association,the New Jersey Association still
that I was president of for, formany years.
And now Mike is president andit's the biggest, you know,
(44:34):
thing that, that we see, uh, allacross the country.
As Mike mentioned in 2002, uh,our good friend Kurt Andrews
from Drive Cam showed up on ourdoorstep and did a pilot program
with us at flight time.
We put the cameras in the carsand, the guy who ran our fleet
maintenance department said, Iwanna put it in the cars.
The guys whose brakes wear outthe fastest.
(44:57):
I wanna see what's going on.
Well, we did the pilot withlike, you know, 10 cars, I
think, and they came back,right?
And we saw the results and wesaid, oh my God, okay, talk
about phantom damage.
Talk about, you know, whatever.
Driving like a maniac.
We immediately.
Went right, marched right downto the bank and we said, listen,
(45:17):
we need 350,000 bucks.
And they said, for what?
We said cameras right now forevery car, you know, and we
rolled out the program to everycar overnight, and it was the
best money we ever spent.
And that's how long we've beenusing telematics.
And, and you talk about, youknow, modifying driver behavior.
(45:39):
Those were the cameras wherethey had to physically come back
to the office Oh, Yeah.
To download the camera.
It was torturing.
So they, they, would have todrive to the office to download
the camera, and then they wouldhave a counseling session with
the chauffeur manager, right, totalk about their driver
behavior.
Now with AI and all the advancedtechnology.
The driver of the chauffeur isgetting, you know, instant
alerts when they're distracted,when they're driving
(46:01):
aggressively.
Yeah.
So it's come, the technology'scome so much further and makes
it so much easier from anoperational perspective to be
able to manage it, you know?
So, The tools are there.
We have to adopt the the wholegoal is you're trying to avoid
the big one.
As you mentioned.
You were, you were distractedand looking at that in your
(46:21):
vehicle, right?
what we do is train.
Okay.
And James, I'm sorry you're nothere today.
We miss you too, because you dogreat work.
Okay.
Great work.
James.
Did I mention
Ken Lucci (46:34):
James, Blaine.
James Blaine from PS Trainingdoes fantastic work.
The Nice Brothers (46:38):
does fantastic work.
my Director of Safety andCompliance, Mike Davis swears by
him and, uh, so many of our,fellow affiliates do, and, you
know, our, fellow Hoffmancompanies as well.
And the whole goal is about,avoiding the, uh, the big one.
and as Mike mentioned, the newtechnology is now so much
better.
Every time that they come outwith something, I then turn
(47:00):
around and I torture Mike Davis,who works for us, and I say,
Hey, Mike, look at this newfeature that, you know, it says,
please slow down when you get toa certain mile per hour.
Or it says, you know, pleasewear your seat belts when you
get in the car.
It's, it's muscle memory asMike's said.
And, and there ways to avoidthat.
And, uh, it's really all we cando to try to, you know, ingrain
(47:22):
upon them that the safety, uh,is, is very, very important.
and insurance is what keeps usin business.
Ken Lucci (47:28):
Well, and, you know, I'll just give a shout out.
I, I, I talk a lot to TimDelaney.
I talk a lot to the guys fromresearch underwriter, Steve
Freeberg and Andrew Don, and.
Uh, they lament the fact that alot of operators still think,
well, you are going up on me andyour price.
These guys have no choice.
There's no one clamoring to getinto the commercial fleet
(47:52):
insurance business, uh, lastthree years in a row for every a
hundred dollars they've taken inthe industry has collectively
lost$104.
It's not a sustainable businessmodel.
from a standpoint of, you know,you bring up PACS training,
which I think is another, way tocreate a culture of safety.
(48:12):
And James and I lament a lotabout what we do, and someone
will look at our product, our,our course, or our services, our
financial, uh, review and profitimprovement service.
And they're like, that's prettyexpensive.
And I'm like, basically, weguarantee to improve your
profits in James Case.
To me that program is, it shouldhave been, I wish it was around
(48:34):
20 years ago when I was anoperator, but that program is a
game changer for your operation.
It tells your, your chauffeurdepartment or your chauffeur's,
individual chauffeurs that youare serious about a customer
service, superior customerservice, and maximum safety.
I don't know why.
Operators, again, they considerit an expense.
(48:56):
Okay.
When James can demonstrate, notthat this is a commercial forum,
but he can demonstrate thechange in behavior when you
implement all of the strategiesthat he has.
The Nice Brothers (49:06):
question
Ken Lucci (49:07):
it, is it the operators that perhaps are just,
you know, they're in their ownecho chamber.
They've been doing this for solong.
I haven't needed it up till now.
What is it?
The Nice Brothers (49:17):
So, so I, I, you know, if you go back 20
years to Tommy MA's trainingvideos
Ken Lucci (49:23):
God bless
The Nice Brothers (49:24):
and, you look at where it's come and, and now
it's, you know, the PACStraining program, which, you
know, Bruce and James havebuilt.
So it went from, you know, howto be a chauffeur to how to be a
safe chauffeur.
And that's what it's about.
It's.
Provides that safety culture foryour new employees.
And I could tell you from a mylimo perspective, after we
(49:46):
implemented, you know, pax, wesaw immediate, immediate
improvement in service delivery,safety, quantifiable increases
in survey scores across theboard.
So it was a fantastic, yeah.
So you have to live it.
It's, again, safety culture is,is something that, you know, is
across the board in your companyand you have to live it.
(50:08):
But, for folks that don't adoptthese platforms, whether it's
James' or someone else's, youhave to talk to other operators,
see what they're doing, and talkto people that, that, you know,
have adopted and say, you know,where have you seen the return
on investment?
Because we've all seen thereturn on investment.
So that's really the.
Ken Lucci (50:28):
if you're using it.
If you're using it,
The Nice Brothers (50:31):
Yeah, sadly, most of'em react, when it's too
late, or the challenges already,you know, uh, on their doorstep.
And, you know, that's one ofthe, those are probably the
people that, that are talking toyou about, you, know, how do
you, you know, get out thosesituations.
But, uh, you're right, you know,folks like Tim Delaney has done
a, you know, a a lot for theindustry.
His, his dad, uh, they insuredus for many, many years at, uh,
(50:54):
at flight time.
Great company at Lance to, uh,work.
They were pushing cameras 20years ago.
Yeah.
They were gi they were giving usthe cameras, correct.
They, they, they were offeringthe cameras, you know, for, uh,
for that.
And they were, you know, aheadof their time.
And, uh, they also had afantastic, you know, uh,
department that subrogatedagainst people who hit you, you
know, so.
There was, there was, you know,really, uh, you know, great, you
(51:16):
know, company there to, uh, towork with.
And, uh, we've solved thatproblem at the, uh, Hoffman
Transportation Group, uh, youknow, for the, for the moment by
having, uh, our own captive.
So that's one of the commitmentsthe family has made, for the 150
companies, uh, that they own in,in the multi vertical, space,
you know, is, is the fact thatthey set up their own captive,
(51:39):
which is, uh, fantastic.
Ken Lucci (51:41):
But you can't maintain the captive unless you
are maintaining maximum safety.
The Nice Brothers (51:46):
Correct?
Absolutely
Ken Lucci (51:48):
Absolutely and to me it's the ultimate competitive
differentiator as well.
Did you both see the situationwhere the Uber driver basically
cold cock that CEO down inCharleston?
The Nice Brothers (51:59):
incredible.
Oh yeah.
Incredible.
Ken Lucci (52:00):
Okay.
Well, you know, one of myclients gives that guy rides to
and from the airport.
But you know, for, for localtrips, I understand he uses
Uber.
But at the end of the day,safety is our ultimate
differentiator along withquality service.
And if you are delivering Sosoquality service and you're
delivering Soso safety, you arereally no better than the lowest
(52:22):
common denominator competitor inyour market.
you know, was thinking today Iam walking into the place that I
have lunch at, and they get alousy, uh, health score, a lousy
health score, and it, the HealthDepartment score, got plastered
on the front, and, and they haveto keep that up there for 30
days.
And I know the owner, he's alocal guy, I like to do business
(52:43):
with him, and he bought thefranchise and I said, listen,
what the hell happened?
He said, well, you know, we hada situation you know, with a
cleaning company.
I said, well, you betterstraighten that up because no
offense, I'm buying it today,but I'm not buying it tomorrow.
If we had to post a safety scoreon every one of our vehicles,
and so did the TNCs.
(53:03):
I think you'd have a completelydifferent market,
The Nice Brothers (53:06):
Yeah, as you saw from the NLA, posted, news
article that came out regardingthe assaults, you know, it, uh,
it's much more pervasive thanjust that one that you saw that
was all, all over the news.
And, it's sickening and, youknow, fast and cheap is not, the
way to go through life, uh, andto protect yourself from danger.
(53:29):
And unfortunately, that that's,you know, some of the, uh, the
situations that have transpiredbecause of the advent of these
TNC companies.
Ken Lucci (53:39):
no question.
But you know, you guys havemade, significant investments in
the, business, in yourbusinesses.
Where do you see theopportunities over the next five
years?
The Nice Brothers (53:48):
I think the opportunities are gonna be, uh,
in the group transportation.
Obviously, you know, we'relooking at whether it's, uh, you
know, AVS and, and robo taxis.
Obviously, you gotta keep aclose watch on that and see how
that's going to change ourindustry.
So we'll see what the, thechauffeur of today becomes in
the next five years?
But I think, uh, larger grouptransportation is gonna continue
(54:11):
to thrive.
And, you know, again, adoptionof technology.
we need to advance in technologyin order to stay competitive and
to stay, uh, you Relevant.
Agreed.
And I, I, I think that, youknow, um, it's a premium,
service.
and in the premium market, Ithink, um, you know, there's,
still a lot of, opportunity for,uh, for growth as we're seeing.
(54:34):
I think that a lot of the, uh,things that are going on in the,
uh, you know, the marketplacewill get settled, uh, regarding,
you know, tariffs and thingslike that.
but the premium marketplace aswell as the, uh, uh, meetings
and events marketplace, there'sa lot of that going on.
We lost half of the, uh, themotor coach companies in the US
(54:56):
during COVID and, the supplychain.
To rebuild that pool of vehiclesalso is an ongoing, challenge.
And, you know, they're, they'resubject to, uh, to tariffs as
well because they're notbuilding them America.
So that's, you know, somethingthat's, you know, on, on a lot
of people's radar as well.
(55:18):
as it continues to grow, wethink it'll be an area for
growth for all the.
Ken Lucci (55:25):
I agree, a thousand percent agree with both of those
sentiments.
I think that the larger vehiclesand the larger group moves first
of all, there's absolutelymarket insulation when you're
dealing with the top one to 2%of the travelers and a private,
and the best corporatetravelers, and having the
(55:46):
diversified fleet that takes youfrom the sedan, SUV, all the way
up to the motor coach and theability to do high touch
grouping meetings, the abilityto execute on any ground move is
the key, and that's yourprotection.
If you are obsessed with the lowprice airport ride, or frankly,
if you're obsessed with beingthe low cost motor coach
(56:08):
provider, you're gonna lose.
there is a commonality, and I,we never get into this, to have
the data that we have.
And, you know, shout out to mybusiness partner who's an
absolute genius of hisgeneration.
And we were talking thismorning, I said, you know,
client asked us about a piece ofdata and we had like 19, 20 data
(56:29):
points that we could share withthem.
The commonality that I find forthe most profitable businesses
the businesses that are one,two, or three in their market,
they're the most profitable andthey're growing regardless of,
you know, what life throws atthem is they're all priced in
the top one third in theircategories.
(56:50):
Now, I'm not saying that they'rethe lowest, priced on airports,
but they recognize that whenthey buy a brand new motor
coach.
They can't be charging the samethat a, that a, 25 year, old
coach operator charges.
They're, dealing with a premiumclient that likes the luxury
experience, that wants the 24hour operation that respects and
(57:14):
appreciates the level ofcustomer service that our
industry delivers.
And I do think that's where ouropportunity lies.
I think our shift is such thatthe motor coach industry, we're
gonna blend together and themotor coach operators that are
aging out okay, they've donewell and they're aging out, I
think that the chauffeurindustry is gonna capture more
(57:36):
of that market.
The Nice Brothers (57:37):
Yeah.
People are looking for that typeof, uh, end-to-end experience,
you know, when they're, whenthey're doing, uh, you know, any
types of programs, whether it's,you know, social or whether it's
corporate or, you know, any ofthose type of, you know, events.
Ken Lucci (57:51):
high touch board meetings,
The Nice Brothers (57:53):
they're all for a chauffeur experience,
right.
As opposed to a bus driverexperience.
Ken Lucci (57:58):
Correct, correct.
And that all comes back to, thisis circles back to where we
started.
It's the ability to always sayyes, regardless of what the
question is.
It's the ability to go the extramile on the service, take the
luggage, greet them at the doorof the motor coach, escort them
to their seat.
It's a leather seat.
It's an absolutely beautifulinterior.
(58:19):
It's a beautiful experience allaround.
I think that's gonna carry theday, And I also believe that,
you know, listen, there's a tonof aggregators on that side that
are trying to offer low price,but the fleet operators have to
stay in pat.
I'm not putting my 500,$600,000vehicle out for$99 an hour, 150,
whatever it is, because you'velow balled the client.
(58:42):
So I agree.
I think the opportunities lookgood.
I think the challenges are suchthat you have to be on top of
your customer service.
We talked about creating thesafe culture of safety.
To me, those two things are notmutually exclusive.
They go hand in hand.
I don't think you get thereunless you're making money,
making a profit.
You have to make a profit.
when you went to that bank for350,000 for all those vehicles,
(59:05):
they didn't ask for your smile,they asked for your financial
statements.
And of course, I bet you broughtyour brother with you.
Well, listen, this has been anexciting episode.
we started with what defined theoriginal business, which was
always saying yes.
Building a good team of peopleinternally, maximizing the use
(59:26):
of technology.
God knows, I wish we had, asoftware IT guy sitting in every
dispatch department andreservations department and
building the ultimate softwarefor us.
We didn't get into a lot ofsubjects, but we'll have to have
another episode of a, a thornbetween two roses again in the
future.
The Nice Brothers (59:45):
A.
Ken Lucci (59:48):
Absolutely.
Listen, I want to do a, aspecial shout out to, uh, Doreen
Rose, who you left out the bestpart of, of of working for
flight time, which was you, youfound the woman of your dreams.
The Nice Brothers (01:00:02):
That's true.
That is very true.
And, uh, she will tell you thatshe was there first.
She was, you know, she was thereover over 20 years by the time
we, uh, we stopped and she'sstill, uh, running the, uh, the
billing department now at,Dolphin.
So she's, uh, been an integralpart of our, uh, our success
and, you know, just as many,many others were.
And, and, uh, you know, it's,imperative to have, you know,
(01:00:25):
all those, you know, pieces ofthe puzzle in, place that, uh,
are there to have your back.
You know, especially when, uh,the business is, growing so much
and to make sure that somebody'swatching the money.
Ken Lucci (01:00:36):
you know, when somebody said to me the other
day, and we'll leave on this,is, you know, anybody can
operate a business during thegood times because a lot of
money coming in covers a lot ofsins.
But at the end of the day when,when the proverbial shit hits
the fan, you better have a goodteam of people and you better,
have good processes in place.
So I'm glad you guys, uh, as twobrothers came together in the
(01:00:59):
industry and I think theindustry is blessed to have, uh,
both Mike Rose from my limo.
And, uh, Tim Rose from DolphinTransportation and the Hoffman
family of companies.
guys, great to see you.
I would, anybody who's listeningto the podcast, search them out
at the cha for Driven NLA showin Dallas.
(01:01:19):
Quite frankly, they'll be thetallest guys walking down the,
down the corridor, but, uh,they're, they're both very
unique in their own ways they'rea plethora of, of great useful
information for new operators.
And again, thank you guys fortaking your time to be on the
Ground Transportation Podcast.
The Nice Brothers (01:01:37):
Ken.
And next time please, you know,uh, we'd love to, uh, do it with
James too, right?
That's right.
You know, so.
Ken Lucci (01:01:44):
That was a little bit of a consternation on our end.
We had a little bit of ascheduling problem, but
absolutely 100%.
And, uh, he's killing it outthere with Pax.
he's spending a lot of time onthe bus side developing the
defensive driving program.
he has, and, uh, I'm glad thatwe gave him a shout out and I'll
tell him you were asking forhim.
The Nice Brothers (01:02:02):
You got it.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to
(01:02:23):
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.
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