Beyond the Bus: Phelps Hope on Leading Through People-Centric Innovation at IMG

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James Blain (00:25):
Hello everybody and welcome to another exciting
episode of the GroundTransportation Podcast.
Uh, I am James Bla, one of thehosts from PAX Training.
Unfortunately today I'm notjoined by my co-host Ken Lucci.
He is no doubt making a amazingdeal happen within the industry
somewhere.
I believe he's actually in theair on the way there right now,
so I'm sure we'll hear aboutthat later on.

(00:46):
Super excited about my guesttoday.
We've got Phelp hopes from IMG,uh, Phelps.
I'm super excited to have youon.
Super excited to talk about IMG.
Uh, I know when I got into theindustry, IMG was, was kind of
this, this group I thought itmaybe as an association.
I think there's a lot of peoplethat kind of hear IMG thrown

(01:06):
around and think it's likeA-B-A-U-M-A and, and they don't
quite understand the difference.
But I'm most excited to talkabout your background.
Because I think the perspectivethat you're bringing to the
industry, kind of yourbackground and how you got to
actually be the president of IMGis gonna be one of the most
exciting things we talk abouttoday.
So welcome to the podcast.
I'm really excited to have you.

Phelps Hope (01:27):
Terrific.
James, thanks so much, mate.
I appreciate it.
Uh, I'm very thrilled to be hereand while I'm still getting my
feet, uh, under me in thisposition with IMGI, uh, I
certainly can talk aboutbackground easy enough.

Well, I, I think anybody listening from just that
introduction clearly knows it'sgonna be exciting because that
Australian accent comes through.
You've got the beautiful beachesin the background.
So I think before we starttalking about IMG, tell us how,
one, how do you end up here?
How do you end up in this spaceand what's kind of your personal
background?
How do you get to where you'reat?

That sounds great.
Well, you know, how much time dowe have, because I've got all
kinds of background stories, soseriously.
Yeah, you're right.
I'm Australian and uh, I've beenliving in the US for many years
now, but, uh, growing up my, uh,my dad was a civil engineer and
so as a family we would travelaround Australia.
We move, uh, every year and ahalf to three years as he moved

(02:22):
from one civil project toanother, and then he got into
mining and, uh, looking aftermine towns and so on.
So we lived all through theoutback in all the major cities
in Australia.
And then at one point in, uh,kind of my preteen years, we
lived in Papua New Guinea.
Uh, we lived on an island calledBoganville.
Which is actually part of theSolomon Island group, uh,

(02:44):
surrounded by the Coral Sea.
And, uh, he was the miningengineer, uh, in charge of the
mine.
It was an open cut copper mine.
In fact, it was the thirdlargest open cut copper mine in
the world at the time.
And, uh, it was really excitingas a young fell growing up in
Papua New Guinea and living inthe tropics and all that that
brings to it.
But it was also third world.
I mean, there was no radiotelevision.

(03:05):
We'd have a ship come in once amonth and uh, we'd get the
supplies off the ship and itwould go into the PX and we'd
live off that.
And for four years I never drankfresh milk.
All the milk was out of a can.
And to this day, I can't evensmell tongal milk or carnation
milk without.

How old are you at this point?
Right?
I mean this, this clearly youHow old are

is the, the pre-teen years, so, you know, 12
through 15 kind of that, that,that range.
And, which was very excitingbecause Boganville was, uh,
there was a lot of activity inthe Solomon Islands during World
War ii and for those who knowtheir World War II history a
little bit, Guadal Canal is twoislands down in the Solomon
Islands, where there was a lotof, uh, battles there with the

(03:47):
Japanese, uh, the AmericanMarines and the Australian armed
forces were, uh, holding the,the Solomon Islands.
They tried to stem the tide ofthe Japanese advance to come
take over Australia.
So if it wasn't for the AmericanNaval and, and marine forces,
uh, being able to have the bigbattle, uh, naval battle in the
Coral Sea, which is just off theGreat Barrier Reef in Northern

(04:09):
Australian waters, uh, we'dprobably be speaking Japanese in
Australia today.
So thank you very much to all myyank friends.
Uh, we appreciate that.
Uh, I'm terrible with languages,so I wouldn't have done any good
learning Japanese.
Anyway, so growing up in that,that environment was a lot of
fun and exciting.
And you know, through my growingup years, I watched what my dad

(04:29):
did and as a civil engineerworking with all these really
big trucks, these 105 ton trucksand the big drag line cranes
that and Oh yeah.
You know, guy stuff.
I loved it.
So I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna bea civil engineer too.
You bet.
I'm, I'm good.
So fast forward and I go to theUniversity of Queensland in
Brisbane, Australia, and I'mhalfway through my first

(04:51):
semester of civil engineeringand I'm sitting there in a, uh,
in a midterm exam.
There's about 150 kids.
We're in an auditorium and atthe front of the auditorium is
this big block of pre-stressedconcrete with rebar metal
sticking out of it, kinda like aStar Wars looking thing.
And we had two hours to write apaper about this block of

(05:12):
concrete.
Now I'll admit, I think I washung over at the time, but

like all good college kids,

there you go.
That's it.
I mean, it's just way of life.
I'm like, nah, I've got, I, I donot care about this block of
concrete.
I don't think I could ever careabout this block of concrete.
So, tore it up paper and Iwalked out.

How, how long did you stare at this blocking?
I and, and I, I'm sure itprobably felt like forever.
How long did you sit therestaring at that before you just
decided?
No, I'm done.

uh, you know, it, it was probably just a few
minutes, James, but it felt likehours and, and I'm staring down
at this blank sheet of paper andI've got nothing.
Just nothing.
And I'm like, yeah.
So I, I march outta class and Icalled a, a mate of mine, uh,
and this was before cell phones.
And I said, you know, I've gottago home.
I tell the parents that I've,I've quit college here, and he

(06:03):
said, well, I'm working as abellman over at, at the local
hotel and we've got an opening.
You wanna come here unless youcan go home and say, how I found
a job.
Yeah, no worries.
That sounds great.
So I get over there and yep,they hire me on the spot and
when do you want me to start?
They had a shift that afternoon,so I'm like, okay, great.
I'll go home, get changed, andI'll come in and I'll start work
right away.
So I go home and get changed andkind of out the door.

(06:23):
I'm, uh, oh mom, dad, by theway, I, I dropped outta
university and I've got a job asa bellman, so all's good and off
I go and I'm sure I, I stillhave that picture of my parents'
faces.
They're just there.
I.
That slack jaw, gobsmack look,you know, the, the jaws on the
ground, like what, what, what,without even a conversation off
I go.

(06:44):
And, uh, so I'm halfway throughmy first shift and I'm like, oh
my God, this is, this isamazing.
You get paid to do this.
This is great.
It's like playing house.
So that sparked me to say, youknow what?
I wanna have a hotel career.
So, uh, I'd been working therefor many months when I finally
decided that.
And I look around Australia andat the time there really wasn't
any business schools that talkedabout hotel management.

(07:05):
It was all just culinaryschools.
And I, I didn't wanna learn howto cook and I could really care
less.
So I looked around the world andwhere do you go for business?
Who's got the best business inthe world?
America.
So who we got in America,university of Denver, Colorado
had a, has a very good hotel,restaurant management program.
And at the time, I think it wasnumber three in the country, I
do not know where it rankstoday, but they had a very

(07:27):
progressive, uh, internationalstudent recruitment program.
To get people to come into theirhotel management courses.
So, uh, I apply, I get accepted,and I come over to America.
I go to university there and Ineed to work, gotta pay the
rent.
And so I, uh, I started workingwith Marriott Hotels at the time
as a bellman, and I stayed withMarriott for about eight years

(07:51):
and I ended up having a hotelcareer that was almost 15 years
long.
And today I live in, in Atlantaand I got transferred down to
Atlanta.
I took a job in Atlanta.

Still with Marriott

No,

this

this point I'd moved on.
Yeah, I'd moved on for Marriottand uh, I had got recruited
away.
Uh, I got a great trainingprogram and so other hotel
companies love to poach Marriotttrained personnel.
So I, I got swept up in all ofthat and I actually, uh, came to
Atlanta in a, uh, careerprogression to, to be a part of

(08:23):
the worldwide sales effort for ahotel brand and ended up at the
corporate office for what is nowin the continental hotels.
I got into that wonderful jobclimbing that ladder, and I get
into the corporate office andthere's no ballrooms anymore and
there's no guests anymore.
It's all R EITs and hotelportfolios, and it's like, nah,

(08:44):
this is boring.
So once

lost the people.

no drop out.
There's no, there's no events,there's no people, there's no
excitement.
There's no connectivity.
And uh, and they do a great job.
Don't get me wrong, it justwasn't for me.
So I drop out and I'm in Atlantagoing, okay, what do I do now?
And, uh, I start up my own eventplanning company

So what year is this?
When you start your,

Uh, this was in the early nineties, so all through
the nineties I started twocompanies.
One was a, uh, a corporate eventproduction company, and that was
working with corporations andother entities about their
business messaging and designingevents and, uh, to towards known
outcomes to really have betterimpact, uh, make them more

(09:25):
efficient and have them moreexperiential for their guests.
And this is now for primarilyclients or employees of the
corporations.
Well, I found out there's a lotof convention work in Atlanta.
So I also started up a DMC, adestination management company
working with inbound conventionsto the city of Atlanta to design
what they needed, be the localresource.
Need a DJ florist.

(09:46):
You need a shuttle system foryour, your, you know, motor
coach shuttle system for yourattendees, for a multi-property
convention, uh, offsite events,whatever it might be.
I designed it, managed it, andso forth.
So.
Again, fast forward, both thosecompanies are doing very well
all through the nineties.
And then we ran into nine 11 andthe landscape, as it did for a

(10:08):
lot of people changed and theconvention business in Atlanta
changed.
And, uh, it, it only took acouple of years post nine 11
that we just could not sustainour business.
And so I closed the doors, butthat business is, it started
with me and a phone and a phonebook.
And I used the conventionplanner before it went online

(10:29):
and it'd give you the contactfor all the conventions, you
know, they're coming into town,who was the person to call and
so on.
And that's just dialing fordollars saying, Hey, what do you
need?
Need a dj?
Great, I'll book it for you.
Managed it, made a few dollarson the side, starting out with
that, that mode, if you will,uh, grew the company to 35
employees and we were about$10million in, uh, in fees,

(10:51):
revenues, uh, at our peak in thelate, at the end of the
nineties.
the.com bubble kind of burst afew things and then it ran into
nine 11.
So there was kind of a slidethere for the way business was
being handled.
It pushed everything online andso Google stepped in where
personal service, uh, andinterrupted the personal service

(11:12):
providers because thecorporations post nine 11 froze
everything.
And they were like, well, westill gotta have our meetings.
We still gotta do what we'redoing.
Well, how do we do that?
Well, the young guns at the timesaid, we've got this lovely
thing called the internet.
Let's use Google search.
And you need a motor coach, youneed a dj.
You don't have to call someonelike Phelps.

(11:33):
Just go in Google search andit'll tell you who's out there.

Was that a slow progression?
Was that something where, youknow, you started seeing a
changing tide and you had

We did.
Yeah.
It, it, it was slow and it just,it, it, it bent more to rather
than the personal relationshipand being their go-to P person,
the Google search environment,because the internet was really
getting, really starting toflourish at that point.
And remember, these are theMySpace time period when you'd
had MySpace pages and peoplewere emerging from that into

(12:02):
having a website, which lookedlike a, basically a digital PDF
version of what their printwebsite, you know,

People were making their websites on Microsoft Word
at that

That's right.
That's exactly

I remember.
I remember making a couple ofthose God awful

that there, there was no click-throughs, there was
none of this.
So this was in that early days,well, nine 11 really, and
the.com bubble bursting.
That was the stimulus of the useof, of, of the, the websites and
so on.
Well, that continued.
We ran into other things and wefinally had to close the doors.
We did a soft landing.
It just didn't work for what wewere, uh, which is okay.

So, so tell us a bit, right, that's, that's a
term that I don't think we'veever used on a show.
Tell us what a soft landing is.
What does it mean when you exita business soft landing?

Well, that's where basically you chain the doors
and you say, Hey, we're not inbusiness anymore.
And you turn around and you payoff your creditors.
Uh, sometimes, and in my case itwas, you know, cents on the
dollar.
We think we paid 30 cents on thedollar to the few people that we
owed money to.
Uh, we sold the building that Iowned at the time and got out
from under that.
And, uh, we still had opencontracts with clients.

(13:08):
So what I did was take, uh,employees and put them together
in little, basically, uh,project management groups,
introduce them directly to theclient, let the client know that
the company was going out ofbusiness, but that this group of
professionals who were alreadyservicing their, their project
would then finish out thecontract and you pay them the

(13:28):
balance and they'll work forwhatever the remaining balance
was.
With the goal to maintain thatclient for themselves and that
this was, help them have aprogression to continue their
profession.
Well, out of the 35 employees,got 17 of them today, own their
own businesses from that point.
So it, it worked out well formany of them that, that got

(13:50):
their kickstart.
They got trained in the companythat we had and, uh, that they
maintained the client.
And, uh, it's a lot easier togrow a business when you've got
clients rather than just settingit up and then go look for
clients.
So that was a good kickstart andit was the way to do it this
way.
I knew that I wanted to continueworking in the industry, so I
didn't want to just go bankruptand, you know, run away.

(14:11):
Uh, you know, I had the, theability to pay things off and,
uh, keep my head high in theindustry and talk about a
learning, uh, learning curve wasincredible.
Uh, it really bruises the ego,though, I gotta tell you.
You really have to suck it upand, uh, take it on the chin.
Uh, some people are not happy,but most everybody understood

(14:33):
and, uh, then and stay active inthe industry that I really love.
So it worked out really well.

I, I think a couple things stand out to me there.
First I can tell you yourexperience with your first
business.
I, I, I envy a little bit.
'cause my first business that Istarted, we did a soft landing
at the end, but we never reachedthat scale.
Right?
We never got to the point wherewe had all the employees and 10
million fees and those, youknow, ours was more kind of
bootstrapped trying to figure itout.

(14:58):
And for us, I did the same thingwhen I exited my first business.
I, I happen to be veryrelationship driven.
Anybody that's worked with me atPax, any, my existing customers
know I'm the guy that if youcall me at 3:00 AM I'm gonna
answer even if you're drunk.
Right?
Don't call me drunk at 3:00 AMbut I'm the guy that I'll
answer.
Um, so my big thing is when weexited our first business that I

(15:22):
had with my dad.
We were kind in the same boat asyou.
We wanted to leave with ourdignity intact.
We wanted to make sure that ourclients ended up where we needed
to be.
But we had figured out in ourcase, you know, we had seen a
similar erosion, we had seen alot of regulation changes, we'd
seen a lot of things that madethat business not viable.
So I've got a ton of respect foryou in doing that.
Now, let me ask you, so you, youmake the soft landing, you, you

(15:44):
get out, it sounds likecompletely unscathed.
It sounds like a win, right?
You've, you've gotten out,you've taken care of your people
in terms of your internalclients, which are your
customers, you're taking care ofyour external clients.
You've really kind of seteverything up to make a soft
transition out.
How does that then change to youmoving to IMG?
What, what does that nextchapter

we've got a big step before that, so I must tell
you, you know, it was the rightthing to do.
It was the hardest thing I hadto do because basically I had to
euthanize the company and I'dgrown the company with my sweat
equity every single moment That,for those those dozen years.

And you're 10 years in, right?

Oh, we're more than 10 years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're, uh, we, uh, we're almost12 years at this point.
And, uh, it was like having achild die, I'll be honest.
It was quite emotional and Icouldn't even look at, uh,
photographs of, uh, events orwith the company or reflect any
for a couple of years afterthat.
I mean, I literally was mourningthe death of that company'cause
I had put so much into it.

(16:46):
But, you know, God had somethingelse in mind for me.
I wasn't, didn't know it at thetime, but, uh, I knew that,
okay, if that wasn't meant tobe.
Uh, unfortunately it did resultin a, in a divorce.
Uh, the marriage broke up, uh,still got the three kids from
the marriage.
Uh, they're all grown now.
They have three boys thatthey're off doing their own
careers, which is wonderful.

(17:06):
Um, so it was a big reset.
So it's like, okay, what do I donow?
So I

is, so now it's like a whole life reset,

It is a life reset.
And it's like, where do we gofrom this point?
I knew that I enjoyed, I stillenjoyed the travel and event
business, whatever that wasgoing to be.
And uh, there was anopportunity, uh, one of my,
excuse me.
I went out there as aconsultant, used my experience,
see what I can do to helpothers.
I found out the consultancy isalmost like, like having a

(17:33):
doctor friend.
You know, I don't have time tocome to your office and I can't
afford your fees, but you know,I've got this pain.
What do you think the pain mightbe?
You know, I've got this eventI'm trying to do.
I'm, I've got this challengewith my company.
So everybody loves free adviceand and frankly that's how the
travel industry is anyway,because we all call each other

(17:55):
to support each other.
You know, we, we all networkbecause.
Frankly, none of us know whatwe're doing when it comes to a
brand new project, except we'vegot a process that we've had
experience with that has workedin the past, but we always run
into something we didn't, we'venever dealt with before, or
we've got a challenge that wejust can't seem to figure
overcome.
Who do we reach out to?

(18:15):
We don't phone consultantsbecause frankly, we are the
consultants in the travelindustry.
We call each other.
That's what we do.
We call our friends or thepeople we do business with, or
if we're in a, an association ofsome kind, we call other members
of the association.
I.
This whole business is behindthe scenes, and that's what we
do.
We figure it out using eachother, whether it's our vendors

(18:38):
or even our clients sometimes tosort out how we get things done.
So I went out as a consultant.
That didn't last very long, butone of the consultant clients
that I had needed someonein-house.
They wanted to take theirmeetings department and turn it
into a profit center.
How do we take it, an internalmeetings management department
and put it on the street to workfor other clients and open up

(19:01):
revenue stream to our company?

almost spinning a business out of their

That's right.
You know,'cause they've done itwith their, their marketing
communications.
They would do it for other, nowthis was an association
management company.
For those who don't know, it'sbasically a corporation who's in
business to manage tradeassociations and professional
societies.
So what would happen is they'dcontract with the volunteer
board that will take all youradmin function and we'll take

(19:25):
over your marketing meetings,management, your books, and all
of these things.
We put together an employeegroup and they become the staff,
quote unquote, of yourassociation.
So this association managementcompany, uh, it was the largest
in the world at the time.
We had seven offices around theworld headquartered in Atlanta.
So it was down the street fromme, uh, New

travel associations or is

No, this was an association management company
that was in all industries.
And yes, they were in travel.
They were mar managing the, uh,an airline passenger Experience
association.
This was basically an airlineassociation.
Uh, they were in manufacturing,they had trade groups, they had
professional societies likemedical insurance, financial,
all types of industries.

(20:08):
Because it's an 80 20 rule, 80%of the functions for any
association is exactly the same.
The 20% is the flavor of thatparticular association, which is
dictated not just by the membergroup, but also the industry
that they're in.
Obviously, insurance agents looka lot different than the Plumber
Trade Association,

Well, we, we talk about this a lot in our
industry, right?
And, and being in training,being someone that helps develop
operations.
I get calls all the time.
You're not gonna understand ourcompany is totally and
completely different.
Okay?
So are we dealing with vehiclesthat have wheels on them?
Yes.
Are we dealing with drivers thatdrive these vehicles?
Yes.
Are they doing what you wantthem to do?
No.
Okay.

(20:48):
So we've, we've established the80, that's gonna be the same.
Let's now talk about your 20.
So it makes total sense

So that's it.
That's it.
So at the peak we had 188associations that we managed,
and I headed up the conventionmeetings and membership
department anyway.
So as a consultant, I'd shownthem, well, this is what you're
gonna do to make this thingprofitable.
And the, and I said, well, yourbiggest problem is your meetings
department is full of meetingspeople, these are logistics
management people.

(21:13):
Nobody there is in sales.
Nobody there is in marketing.
Nobody there is forwardthinking.
You've got no strategy.
Well, can you develop a roadmap?
That's right.
Here's the roadmap that you are,you paid me to do.
Here you go.
And the chairman at the timesaid, this is great.
Can you do this?
And I said, well, certainly can,but not as an outside
consultant, I've got noauthority.
So great.
What if we create the positionand you come in and you run the

(21:35):
division?
Okay.
I did that and, uh, that led toan almost 20 year career with
this company, uh, overseeingglobal offices in China and
Brussels, uh, Bahrain,Singapore, all across America

are you boots on the ground at every

very much.
No, not at all of'em.
We had with 188 associations,

I was about to say.

300 meetings, events, trade shows, and
conventions every year.
So again, I had about a 30 to 40team staff scattered in these
offices.
And, uh, they're the ones whowere boots on the ground.
I definitely got involved withthe ones that needed strategic
assistance, like it was astruggling industry.
We needed to reposition thatmeeting within the industry.

(22:18):
So I get involved with it, orwe've taken on an association to
manage, and it's a, theconvention or the annual
meetings in deep stress, they'refinancially upside down,
whatever it might be.
I get involved with thosethings.
Uh, if it's just functionallygoing through, great.
One of the meetings, managerswould take it and they make sure
that the food and beverage islined up, the ab and that the
hotel they're booking iscontracted correctly.

(22:39):
Those types of things.
So I did that for almost 20years, James, and, uh, enjoyed
the heck out of it.

How similar was that to your first company?
'cause it sounds like there's alot of alignment there.
Did it kind of feel like a, likea second breath, uh, almost like
a second wind to the firstcompany or what, what did that
feel like to you?
Running that?

Well, what it did for me, having my companies,
which as an entrepreneur, as youare yourself, growing a company
takes certain inversion layersof growth for yourself.
So rather than just a sales guyor an operations guy, I had to
evolve to be a director.
I had to evolve to be a CEO,

to grow to be able to

I had to grow?
That's right.
And so through that process, Iunderstood more how to manage
other people because I'd gonethrough those inversion layers
myself.
And so coming into ru into alarger corporation and running a
division, I'd done all the jobsdown at the menial task level,
all the way up to the strategiclevel.
So I better understood what theyneeded and how they, how to make

(23:37):
them, how to help them grow intheir position as professionals,
but also be more effective forthe client side.
Loved it too.
Absolutely loved it.
But I gotta tell you, it was,uh, a lot of wear and tear
traveling globally, uh, youknow, two weeks a month, and
being on your feet and runningconventions in, not just
throughout America, but aroundthe world.

(23:59):
I.
Sometimes they're 18 hour daysand there's a lot of physical
wear and tear.
And it was to reach, to finallyreach the point it's like, you
know what?
I gotta find another way to dothis because I'm gonna, I'm
gonna run outta steamphysically.
Uh, I haven't, but, uh, I knew Iwould do, and it just timing,
and again, this is, I say thisis how God works, uh, works in

(24:19):
amazing ways that you can't see.
I got a tap on a shoulder at atrade show and a recruiter said,
you know what?
We got this position over atIMG.
It really takes a unique personfor this.
The current person, which youall know as Bronwyn Wilson, who
coincidentally is also fromAustralia, uh, she's from
Melbourne, I'm from Brisbane,just.
A little respect there.

(24:41):
Um, anyway, so he said, youknow, you need to apply for this
job.
We really need someone to yourcapability.
And I said, oh, let me sit withit for a little while.
And it took a few months tonoodle it and, uh, said, sure,
this sounds like what I'mexcited to do is to be able to
take all those many years ofskillsets in those different
environments and apply it now toan organization that needs my

(25:02):
kind of skillset.
Um, the, uh, what I walked intoat IMG was amazing.
I mean a, a, a very well runorganization.

It is not like any other group I've ever been a

not and it's, and it, exceptional is the word I
would use, which is wonderfulbecause I get to stand on that
success and look to the future.
Where do we go from here?
We've got certain headwinds inthe industry.
We've got certain headwindswithin membership groups.
We've got things that we have todeal with, not just the short
term, like changes ofadministration and regulatory
type things, but longer term,what's happening on the client

(25:37):
side?
What's their world look like andhow do we adapt for it?
So there, there's a lot of thatbackground which would, which
which seemed to be veryapplicable for what I was doing.

So I

So that leads us up to today.

Yeah, Yeah.
And, and I was really luckythat, you know, we had, we had
worked with an IMG partner outtaCalifornia with TCS, with Kevin
and Terry Fisher.
We'd been working with them ontheir training.
And so we got in, we got, youknow, invited into IMG and it's,
it's completely different thanany other group.
And I'll, I'll call it group'cause I want you to kind of
explain the difference here in asecond.
But, you know, for IMG, one ofthe things that we saw is IMG

(26:13):
really kind of represented thetop of the motor coach industry
and the goals and the way thatIMG operates and everything
there, you know, even, evenbecoming a part of IMG for us
was an interview process.
You know, are you a right fit tobe a partner?
Yes.
You've been invited by, bysomeone that's working with you
within the group, but you know,are you the right fit?
Tell us about yourself.

(26:33):
So, becoming a partner with IMGwas a really big deal for us
because of how you guys operate.
So, I know when I first got inthe motor coaching industry, I.
It kind of felt like it was thisgroup and they do meetings at, I
am at a BA, they do meetings atUA.
I didn't know if it was anassociation.
It was, it was kind of thismythical group, right.
Of these top tier operators.

(26:54):
Can you help kind of pull thatcurtain back a bit and tell us,
right.
What is IMG?
Some people think it's anassociation, right?
Other peoples think it's somekind of club.
You know, what if, if you had togo explain IMG to someone that
was new to the industry that hasno idea what we're talking about
and they just think it's anotheracronym, how do you, how do you
package that up in a way theycan understand to really bring

(27:15):
them up to speed on what IMGactually is?

Oh, great question and very happy to, because I,
frankly, I do this every daynow.
I find out there's alwayssomebody who needs to better
understand what IMG is.
And having gone through thatsame question myself, what is
this thing?
Uh, I, I, I quickly understoodit.
So IMG is actually acorporation.
It's not an association.
It's an invitation onlymembership group of the high-end

(27:41):
motor coach, charter serviceoperators.
We focus on the charterservicing regardless of what
other aspects that the membermight have, whether it's black
car, school, bus transit, whathave you.
It's the charter service.
That's what this organization isabout.
And IMG was formed for twodistinct reasons.
They, they formed it about 25years ago.
They, I think it's about 26years now, because they think

(28:02):
they, last year was their 25thanniversary, but it was formed
for two distinct reasons.
One is to create a distinctionbetween.
The vast landscape of everybodyin the bus industry, whether
motor coach or whatever it mightbe, is well, how do we create
distinction with the charterservice and the higher end
charter service?
Those that invest are able toinvest more in their vehicles,

(28:23):
that they're newer, they caninvest a little bit more time
and effort into their safetytraining, the driver training,
the employer training.
Those that are really focused onoperational excellence, where
it's not just a desire, but theyactually actually do the work to
put together repeatable trainingprograms, which I know you're
very familiar with.
In fact, you are a great vendorfor many of our IMG members, and

(28:46):
we appreciate that.
Thank you.
very much, James.
But, uh, it's a, and so that'sthe first reason.
The second one was, you know,all of the motor coach operators
are very regional.
They might, some are bigger thanothers, obviously, but some are
in their little valley, in theirtown.
And this is the area that we'veworked with, uh, for many, many
years and so forth.
And others have multi-locationsand, and so on.

(29:07):
Well, it was this way.
We don't, the individual motorcoach operator didn't have to
invest in attracting thenational business to their
specific location.
They, every, all the memberswould pull their, their
resources and create this brandcalled IMG that's, that, that
has, uh, marketing supportbehind it with branding
recognition to create that.

(29:29):
IMG is the higher end operators.
These are the ones that invest alittle bit more, have a little
bit more on the insurancecoverage, that and, and so
forth.
So when the client looks at it,no matter what the name on the
door of the vehicle is, if theyhad the IMG membership logo,
they know right away, oh, you'requalified to be at the higher

(29:49):
level, so I know I can buy it.
Listen, I came outta the hotelbusiness.
Libby, give you a littledifferent parallel.
Just like we all the motor coachoperators are independently
owned, hotels are oftenindependently owned and a hotel
sitting wherever.
In some city, or whether it's,you know, in a resort or what
have you.
They need help in attractingmore business into their hotels

(30:09):
and they need to tap into a, amuch bigger picture marketing
exercise.
That's why hotel owners will puta Marriott name or a Hilton
name, or Wyndham, or in aContinental, whatever it might
be.
They pay money to have thatfranchise name put on the door.
We're the Ritz Carlton.
So in the hotel industry, if yousee a Ritz Carlton or a Four
Seasons, one of the higherbrands, you know right away.

(30:30):
Oh.
This is a high-end operator,it's probably gonna cost me more
money, but you're gonna get thatwhite glove service, uh, versus
your limited service propertiesor your general full service
Marietta or, or Hilton property.
It's the same thing with us.
By putting the IMG brand on thatmotor coach operator, you know,
this is the brand of excellence.

(30:51):
This is the brand of highcustomer service.
So that's, that's the wholevision with it.
Um, and that's, and that's whathas been known, uh, throughout
the tour operator market and,uh, collegiate sports and
student youth travel.
And there's so many markets thatrecognize and understand the IMG
brand.
So in a nutshell, that's whatthat is.

(31:12):
But because we're a corporation,we can set very stringent
membership guidelines.
In other words, you have to,there's quite a health healthy
checklist of what you have tohave in place to become a
member.
You have to be invited, you haveto be invited by another member
to come on in to the, uh, to theorganization.
And then we run you through,after you've applied, we run you

(31:32):
through quite a, uh, a, a, uh, avery, very distinguished but
very detailed, uh, process tomake sure that you're the
operator that, that, that you,that, that you put yourself out
to be.
And we understand because yourother fellow operators, the ones
that are assessing you.

(31:53):
And, uh, it's not like we justhave a membership person, so
we're not an organization thatwould sell memberships like your
typical association.
You'd be join a member and thendo what you wish.
You have criteria also to beactive and the member is the
owner of the company.
So the profile of our, ourmembers is the family owned and
operated motor coach operator.

(32:14):
We do have a few exceptions.
Some of those are grandfatheredin and some of them, because of
the ownership structure, as longas they're involved at the
ownership level, uh, that'swhere the member comes in.
So that was kind of 0.1.
Why we do is to have themarketing brand and everything,
but on the client side, sure,it's great to see the
credibility and I can instantlyrecognize.
The power of IMG is the networkthat we've created.

(32:35):
So our members are strategicallyplaced around, uh, USA and
Canada so that no matter wherethe client enters the network,
they're fully supported acrossthe geographic landscape as
their tours move across thecountry.
So if they're got a tourstarting in New York and it's on
its way to LA for some reason,Peter Park or what it may be,

(32:57):
and it runs into trouble, say,in Kansas, our Kansas member
runs out right away, eitherreplaces the bus so they, the
clients can keep going or theyfix it on the spot and keep them
on the road.
And it's that network of supportthat has become the real power,
uh, of IMG.
And that's, uh, the, the, themembers have all, and my

(33:18):
predecessor and her predecessorand those involved with IMG have
spent a lot of time and a lot, alot of sweat equity to get that
brand built.
And we work hard to maintainthat brand.
That, uh, it's, uh, it that,that this brand and the members
of this brand live up to whatthe, the branding is, or the

(33:40):
hype we live up to the hype.

Well, and there's some, there's some big things.
There's a lot to unpack there'cause you've hit on a lot of
things that make IMG completelydifferent from any other group
in the industry.
You know, you think of a 20group where operators are gonna
get together, they're gonnadiscuss, they're gonna hold
people accountable.
They're gonna do that.
That's a completely differentconcept, completely different
idea.
What makes so much sense withthe way IMG is set up is that

(34:07):
you have a like mindset and thatI have, I, and all the time that
we've been in IMG and I, I'msure this will will go on in
perpetuity.
Almost every operator that Imeet and talk to, even though
they get together, they'retalking about their issues,
they're trying to figure thingsout.
They are looking at it from thesense of.
How do I stay ahead?
How do I stay in the top 10%?

(34:28):
How do I provide the highestlevel of service?
Um, when I say they're my typeof people, I mean that because
in my world of training, we seea lot of cyclical problems.
We see a lot of, Hey, you know,I had an issue.
I need to revamp my trainingprogram.
And then six months later it's,we need to do a budget cut.
We need to pull back thetraining program, save money.
And that kind of goes on and on.

(34:49):
Whereas IMG operators, becauseof the way that they've brought
these people together andthey're all working towards the
same goal, it's how do I getahead of this?
How do I stay ahead of this?
How do we as a group figure outhow to share that and stay ahead
of it?
And you've got thiscollaborative effort to where,
like you said, one of the uniquethings with IMG operators is it

(35:11):
doesn't matter where a tourstarts.
It doesn't matter where thattrip starts.
You know that if you are on abus that has IMG on it, they
have that network.
It doesn't matter what happenswhere.
Those members are gonna supporteach other.
And then there's also a lot ofeducation.
There's also a lot of work therein terms of lifting things up.
So I think, you know, it, I, Ilove kind of bringing this up

(35:33):
because I really think it'sunique in the space.
I don't know of any other groupacross any level of pastor
ground transportation thatexists, that kind of has this
same level of attention todetail and mindset.
So I know, kinda like you said,this is a group that's been
around for a while.
This is something you've beenworking on.

(35:55):
Let me ask you, coming from yourbackground, you've got this
beautiful perspective on people.
One of the things that we'veheard you bring up again and
again is, you know, I, I, I findmyself, I get to a role, you
know, the block of concretegetting into the REITs and the
management of the piece.
You are a people person, right?
That's, that's kind of yourcalling, is to connect and work

(36:17):
with people.
I, I don't know that there's abetter role, but.
How does it feel kind of beingable to bring an outside
perspective and what are thethings that you kind of see as
opportunities or ways that yousee yourself as being able to
con knowing that you're notgonna have those same kind of
rose colored grasses thatsomeone that grew up or was in

(36:37):
the industry has?

Right, right.
Well, and let's not forget,we're all part of the travel
industry.
You know, I started out in thehotel side, DMCs, convention
planning and so forth.
Frankly, it's all part of thehospitality and travel industry.
Every single one of us in thetravel industry are in business
to service other people who aretraveling for some reason,

(36:59):
whether it's a simple point A topoint B, or if it's a wedding
and a destination wedding orwhatever it might be at some, in
some discipline area, we areservicing others who are
traveling, be it for businessperson, what have you, which
means that we all enjoyservicing other people for what
they need.
We don't sell products, weservice people, and there's a

(37:23):
certain mindset that isthroughout the travel industry.
We're all entrepreneurial in ourmindset because every single
personal experience is a littlebit different.
'cause it's unique.
The 80/20 rule, I don't reallycare why they're, they're,
they're traveling, but 80% ofit's gonna be the same to your
point, round wheels and vehiclesand so forth.

(37:44):
But whether it's a plane or achip or they're staying in a
hotel or eating in a restaurant,or they're attending a concert
or whatever it might be, there'sa whole cadre of people behind
the scenes working to servicethose people as they travel for
their experience.
So I am not unique by any means.
The entire industry is builtaround this whole concept of

(38:05):
traveling other people.
Um, in fact, let me, let me giveit a little bit of a story.
So I, uh, you know, I, I, okay.
International Motor Coach Group.
Great.
What, what are these people?
Is it an association?
So on, I got that all sorted outand I'm like, well, where did
the word bus come from?

Like the actual origin of the word

Yeah, the word bus.
how did we come up with thatword?
Was it something else?
I don't know.
So anyway, I did do a little bitof research when it before,
right before I came on.
So I, I mean, came into theposition so I could better
understand, well, what is ourhistory?

You went all the way back.

all the way back now, I imagine there was group
transportation back in theEgyptian, the Roman days and so
on.
Just look at the ships.
I mean, they threw groups ofpeople on there to go fight
other people.
So I'm sure there was, you know,ground transportation of some
sort, but in modern times.
So to back it up just a littlebit, so the word omnibus is

(39:02):
where it really originated.
And omnibus is a French wood,which means vehicle for all.
And that's a derivative ofLatin, which is O-O-M-N-E-S.
So the Latin version is o was,you know, and it grew into
omnibus and it means vehicle forall.
And that was, I don't know wherethat came from, but anyway, so
in 1823, there was a French cornmill owner.

(39:24):
His name was, uh, Bry.
It was like Stan Bry, Stan List,Bry, something like that.
B-A-U-R-B-Y.
Anyway, he, uh, he was, he livedoutside the city of Nez and
N-A-N-A-N-T-E-S, Nez France.
Nez is on the, kind of thesouthwest coast of France, just

(39:44):
south of the English Channel.
It's a coastal town, but inlandhere, agriculture, you know, he,
so he was a corn mill owner.
Well, one of the byproducts of,of crushing corn, making corn
meal.
The corn mill is hot water.
And so he decided to establish aspa business.
So he's gonna have this hotwater spa, but people living in
the town, how do I get'em outhere?

(40:06):
So he, and to encourage them, hestarted this horse drawn
transportation service from thecity center of

A true entrepreneur, he is already spun
off

Right, right.
And he's like, yeah, look.
Lemme do a line run.
He didn't really have that.
But anyway, so he got thatgoing.
But on the way he would stop atthe shop of a hater, and the
hater's name was O-O-M-N-E witha little SO.
And so he put up a sign theresaying, you know, we do the

(40:35):
Omnis omnibus.
It was a play on words for him.
It was all this kind of play onwords.
And so he started this run stopat the Hatters so people could
experience buy a hat, I guess,and then continue on to the spa.
So that's where it all camefrom, is from this fellow in
1823 in France.
Well, unfortunately, the rest ofthat story is people really
didn't care about the spa.
They loved going to the Hatters,so it would just, he quit doing

(40:58):
the runs to the spa and he justcontinued to go to other
destinations that people couldshop.
So shopping was the derivativeof the transportation industry,
which is still what it is today.
People fly to New York City togo shopping.
I guess that's how it goes.

I, I, I gotta tell you, I mean, as far as
businesses go, I mean, that Ifeel like a lot of people have
been on that same businessjourney.
I have an idea.
I end up with two businesses.
This one doesn't work out.
I pivot, I partner with someone.
I mean, that is, that isprobably one of the best stories
to line up our industry because,you know, part of what we do is
every, as you mentioned withtravel, you are always part in a

(41:34):
chain.
You know, if there's nodestination, there's no point in
having the bus, right?
You know, you've got the hotelindustry, you've got the bus
industry, you've got all ofthese different industries,
right?
The airline industry, all ofthem that kind of chain and work
together.
And so I think it's interestingthat in that one little story of
the birth of the word bus, we,we have a lot of that dynamic

(41:54):
going on, so it makes a lot ofsense, right?
A hundred years later.
We're, well, what, a hundred?
And then some we're still kindof seeing those same little
micro stories play out.

Well, that's it.
So then I explored it further,say, okay, so that gives me the
word bus, but it's used in kindof a transit mode.
Getting him to kind of a point apoint B on a scheduled run, if
you will, is my interpretation.
So then, you know of all that toschool bus or evolve it to
transit buses, but that's wherebus is.
Well, where did Motor Coach comefrom?

(42:26):
Well, that was easier because itstarted with the stage coach,
you know, and we would got astage coach that's going to take
you out the west, all right?
You buy a ticket, you get onthat, that stage coach, and you
go out there with a group ofpeople or whatever it might be.
And of course then they addedmotives, so it turned into Motor
coach, So that one was a littlesimpler to to understand.
So understanding the roots ofwhy people do things is, is a

(42:49):
great way to learn how to takethem to the next level.
And, you know, many of ourmembers are, are, are in their
third, fourth, and we even haveone that's in their fifth
generation.
I mean, they're very, the fifthgeneration's very young.
But working in the business, uh,I think they're changing vending
machines.
I think they, they, they, they,they fill the, uh, the cans of
coke in the vending machines,but it doesn't really matter.

(43:10):
I mean, I did the same thingwith my kids with

Gotta start somewhere.

That's right.
So, you know, one of theheadwinds we run in today is the
succession planning.
And it's not unique to the motorcoach industry that's in many
family owned businesses where,you know, there's many more
choices today for the, for theemerging generation that they
may not decide to work in greatgranddad's business.
That granddad took over and mydad took over, and, uh, I'm not

(43:35):
really not interested in makingblue widgets.
Thank you very much.
So we do have that bit of apressure because there's
different types of jobs thatexisted back then.
You know, look at all thetechnology related jobs.
Look at the, you just name it,it's it, I mean, society
progresses every generation.
And with that.
Some jobs fall off becausethey're just not needed anymore

(43:56):
and they evolve to somethingelse.
And brand new jobs come in.
One of my sons is a social mediamanager.
I never even heard of that whenI was in college.
It wasn't even words you would,you know, you'd think that
always that, like socialstudies, is that what that is?
You know, type of a thing.
So we're, we're always this newjobs in, so of course it's not
automatic that the emerginggeneration is gonna take over
the family business.

(44:16):
So that's one of the challengeswe have.
Well, what do you do with yourbusiness at that point?
So we're exploring that.
Uh, there's always economiccycles that come in and
unfortunately in the last 25years, starting with nine 11
there, the, the, the traditionalnine year economic downturn

(44:37):
hasn't happened because it'sbeen disrupted with a nine 11
and then a global financialcrisis.
Then COVID.
These aren't just downturns.
These are industry disruptors.
I mean societal disruptors.
So we've gotta look to thefuture.
What's the next weird thing thatwe couldn't even see coming?

(45:00):
Hands up?
Anybody who saw that a pandemicwould stop the world for as long
as it did hands up.
Anybody who thought that someunderhanded financial sales in
the mortgage world would crashthe entire global financial
structure.
Who thought that somebody wouldwanna fly a 7 57 or whatever it

(45:22):
was, into buildings to collapsethem?
I, these are just off the wall.
Well, those are the times we'rein, and it's unfortunate because
there's some great things thathappened at this time period.
There's also some verydisturbing and horrible things
that happened.
So we're in this, this, there'sno rhythm anymore.
There's no cycles anymore.
It's just be ready for the nextthing.

(45:45):
And that's what we're allpreparing for, that you can't
count on what the last hundredyears of growth looked like.
Because the way things growthese days, they're much more
accelerated.
You're, every company isbasically 90 days away from
going out of business if you,especially small businesses, if
you turn off the revenue stream,how many businesses go out of

(46:06):
the business in, in 90 days?
So you have to have that kind ofa 90 day approach to it.
What we gotta do in the shortterm, but as always, you've
gotta have a long-term approach.
Where's the horizon?
We're, we're leaving LA today,and where are we going?
Or, we're gonna go to Calgary,or we're going to New York.
It's a direction that we'regonna go, and then we're gonna
navigate the way that we getthere.
So your business talks aboutthat?

(46:26):
Well, this is a lot of what IMGbrings because we have these
incredibly successful, veryknowledgeable, very dedicated
owners and their seniorexecutive staff.
I.
IMG and our meetings and ourevents that we do, and in fact
our written communication and wehave chat groups.
We set up, we have all kinds oflevels of communication, but not

(46:48):
just at the owner to ownerlevel, but also at the director,
director, the safety to safetymaintenance to maintenance
operator in the discipline sothat they're all switching ideas
back and forth.
It's almost like IMG is afranchise and these are the
independent operator owners of'em, and we share information
like you would there.
Now I'll be clear, we don't getinto the numbers.
We don't, we're not like aspader group.

(47:08):
We're opening our books andgetting into the numbers, none
of that.
It's still a member group underthe mar, under a marketing
Monica.
But we do generate revenue as abrand to our individual members,
uh, because clients reach out toIMG as a one-stop shop, and
that's where the, the, the powercomes in for the client because,
you know, they know with OneCall they get today 53 high

(47:32):
quality owner operators withmultiple locations.
And so, uh.
Grand scale.
We get a call from World Cup.
World Cup sets up a meeting, allour members are on the call and
we solve their problem right offthe bat.
So that, that's the power ofwhat IMG is all about.
And to answer your question, I'mso excited about because helping
an organization that is rootedin the best qualities with the

(47:56):
best intentions there, thewithout the infighting or the,
the erosion of politics orpersonalities or these types of
things that this organization,all, every single member, pulls
in the same direction.

Right.

So being able to help guide that and lay out
where are we going for the next10 years?
What do we expect the world tolook like in 10 years, we have
those kind of conversations andwalk it back into a roadmap.
Well, the more we gonna do thisyear to best situate ourselves
10 years from now.
It's so refreshing for theindividual member to have a

(48:35):
group of like-minded owners who,that they can openly share, ask
questions, and as a collective,are way more powerful than any
one individual would be.
And so it's, it's, I mean, oneday I can see I am GBA case
study in, in marketing and, andmanagement classes at
universities.
And, uh, there's just, it's sucha powerful network.

(48:58):
It's amazing.

I, I think for me, one of the big things that
attracted me is, is the, like Isaid earlier, that mindset,
because you've kind of alludedto it a little bit here, but you
know, I remember when our mostrecent event that we had when we
were in Philadelphia, um, and wewere, so IMG was there, um, for
anybody that that's listeningthat doesn't know, so typically
IMG is going to co-locate withthe a, BA and UMA events.

(49:21):
And so, and, and this year wewere co-located with a, b, a,
and so we were in one of thesessions and it's very different
to what you would expect.
You know, people think, becauseit's an acronym, it acts like an
association.
One of the things that I'vealways found interesting is you
will see at that event, you'regonna see the head of

(49:41):
maintenance, you're gonna seepeople from the office, you're
gonna see all these differentparts of the business.
And even though we're notopening books and talking
numbers, I.
All of that education, all thosesessions are revolving around
running as a top 10% company.
Um, I know one of the sessionsthat was kind of burned into my
mind because you talked aboutthe different cycles and the

(50:02):
things we've seen was thenatural disasters educational
session where the members weretalking about.
Right.
We had everything from, um, Ibelieve it was in Tennessee
where there was a tornado andflooding.
You had, um, I wanna say it was,um, I don't remember if it was
Mike or who it was from Pollad,but they had someone there from
Pollad talking about how theywere part of the disaster relief

(50:23):
with the fires and the issues inHawaii.
Um, you had, you know, StephenO'Shea from Lancer Insurance
talking about what happened whenthey had the hurricane and the
flooding and getting ahead ofit.
Right.
We're we're talking about here'swhat happened.
Here's how we were able toaddress it.
Here's how we do it differently.
Here's, and, and as someonethat's in the training education

(50:45):
space, I sit in a session likethat and I, I look like a
five-year-old kid who's justbeen giving the world's biggest
lollipop.
'cause I'm smiling ear to ear.
I'm going, we're playing chessnot checkers, right?
I tell my clients that.
I say that on almost everyepisode.
I can, it, it always comes up,right?
We're playing chess, notcheckers.
We're so focused on being in thetop 10%.
We're so focused on being aheadthat we're thinking about these

(51:07):
types of things that couldhappen and being ready to
respond and how we'd react andhaving a plan in place so that
when it does happen, we'reready.
And you see that come, I waslucky enough to be involved in
the round tables when we weretalking about maintenance.
How do you find mechanics?
How do you train thosemechanics?
How do you bring them up tospeed?
What's working?
What's not working?
How do we leverage all thesedifferent tools?

(51:28):
And again, we know that we'regoing into a period where there
be a mechanic shortage.
How do we position ourselves asthe most appealing?
How do we get ahead of it beforeit, or that whole mentality
really kind of embodieseverything that I think IMG
stands for and what it providesand how its members operate.
So I think kind of as we come toa close here and we finish this
out, what does the future hold?

(51:50):
What's kind of the vision?
Um, obviously as someone who'scome in, you are able to bring
this fresh perspective andyou're building on this
wonderful legacy that IMGsbuilt.
What do you see as theopportunities for growth and to
build and to take things evenfurther as IMG progresses and
grows into the future?

Great question, and one of the things I'm excited
about, James, is the fact that Idon't have to fix anything.
IMG is an organization, youknow, back in the association
management days, we'd take on anassociation to manage.
They always came to us broken.

In shambles, right?

Ah, you know, whether it was a caustic
culture, whether they'refinancially upside down or
they're in a, a retreatingindustry.
You know, we had one fromretail, let me tell you, that
was a headache anyway, um, so Idon't have to fix anything.
So we only, I only have to lookto the future.
But what the future holds is twomain basics.
I mean, there are gonna benatural disasters that happen.

(52:45):
We'll all overcome it andthey'll be global.
Whatevers will happen, I'm sureit's gonna be aliens landing
next.
I think that's the next one.
But they're gonna need motorcoaches when they get here.
So I wanna make sure I get theirkey

Someone's gotta move the military

I gotta tell you what you got.
You know, they're gonna get fromthe spaceship to wherever
they're gonna go see the, theleader of the, the free world,
whatever that is.
Um, so the, you know, you hadmentioned about the top 10%.

Yeah.

Our companies, member companies, they're not in
business to be the top 10%.
That is a byproduct of whattheir vision and their own
culture is because they're socustomer centric, because
they're so operationallyexcellence centric.
The byproduct is the fact thatthey're the top 10% of the
industry, and that's so lookingto the future, two big areas.

(53:32):
One is generational.
Every generation adds to thecurrent generation or to the
current thing to help take us tothe next generation.
That curve has been gettingsteeper and steeper.
It happens faster and faster,and the emerging generation
brings more to the table thanthe preceding generations
typically because of, and mypoint number two, technology.

(53:54):
Where are we with technologytoday?
What's technology look like inthe future?
How do we still maintain abusiness full of people who are
customer service oriented andadopt technology to make us more
efficient?
Adopt technology to offer betterservices or more services, not
to replace the people.
Because we're in the travelindustry, you cannot replace

(54:16):
people servicing other peopleotherwise, it becomes a robot
doing room service, and all it'sdoing is delivering a plate that
somebody else put together foryou.
So sure we can have, uh, so partof the technology that, that
we've already discussed andwe're underway to adopt in
certain areas is ai.
Where, how do we get going withai?
How can we learn from experiencerather than from consultants?

(54:39):
And so we're underway right nowto upgrade our website and it's
all in the works.
It's being done right now toincorporate AI in there to help
us make more efficient andcreate more of a buyer
experience, which is, you know,rather than trying to sell'em a
bus, sell'em the experience, butlet AI customize it for that
particular buyer.
And we have a plan for that.

(55:00):
And it took a lot of seriousminds to put this roadmap
together.
We're executing it.
We also know, James, that wemight fail.
We might, we might invest inthis.
And, and we're, we're doing aproof of concept version and
we'll invest in this.
We're gonna give it a try, andwe're gonna see what happens.
We'll see, that's what IMGleaders do.
We're not just the operationalexcellence leaders in the

(55:23):
industry, but we're also thethought leaders in the industry
because we're trying things tohelp better the industry and
therefore better our, ourcompanies individually, but
collectively.
So, giving AI a try and let'sliterally learn from it rather
than just hear about it.
And that's what we're gonna giveit a try.
Not being afraid to fail.
Just do what Sony used to say.

(55:44):
Fail fast.
So that, you know, you can giveit a shot, but don't make it a
five year exercise that you'regonna live with it.
Fail fast.
Make it a 90 day exercise.
Give it a try.
Learn from it.
Then pivot at that point.
Do we progress on this road?
Do we make a slight alterationor do we double down and say,
you know what, that was great.
Let's find the money and let'sreally go for it and blow it out

(56:05):
so we're in that stage.
So trying things is the bestthing.
We're in a, uh, the motor coachindustry is a pretty, it's a,
it's not an early adopter oftechnology, as you well know.
They wanna, they wanna see other

in general, no,

and frankly, just look at what's going on in the
FAA.
The airline industry iscertainly not an early adopter
of technology, since they'restill using technology that has
green screens and blinkinglittle cute

I, I wouldn't even call them an adopter of
technology.
Right.
They get, they get technologyforced on them, and then hold
onto it

That's right.
Now, we're not in the airlineindustry, so we really can't
comment too much.
We're not behind the scenes, butthe transportation industry as a
whole is not an early adopter oftechnology.
So IMG has the ability and wealso are in the unique position
to be able to give things a try.
So that's what we're gonna try.
That's what the future holds.
So let's not be afraid and havefear of what we don't know.

(57:01):
Let's give it a try so we canstand on experience to make a
decision, not live in fear ofbreaking a norm that we can't
live without.
And that's what we're giving ashot.

and I, I love the tieback to the story, right?
You, you brought that story upabout how we actually got the
bus back in the 1830s and what,what happens there?
Well, I have an idea.
I implement the idea.
Part of this doesn't work theway I want.
I pivot here, I move there, Iadjust.
Look, one of the things that Ilearned very early on in
business, and I was lucky enoughto learn it, is that if you just

(57:33):
find one thing that works andstick to it indefinitely, you're
limiting your growth.
Eventually, someone come in,someone will try something new.
But what I've learned through mybusiness career and owning
businesses, and I'm sure you'veseen this yourself, LPs, when
you are constantly trying andinnovating and working on
things, even the ones that fail,provide opportunity.

(57:54):
If you can't see theopportunity, if you can't see
the education, if you can't seethe growth in the failure.
You are missing the pointbecause I can't tell you how
many times we've had a projector a thought or something, even
when it just absolutelyepically, implodes or fails or
completely not how we want it.
There's always some element ofthat, that we either learn
something, gain something, and alot of times you'll see pieces

(58:17):
of that pop up somewhere else.
So I think if you really wannabe an industry leader, you've
gotta be willing to go out onthose limbs.
You've gotta try things.
And I think that's part of whatmakes IMG such a great place for
that, is you've got all of thesepeople that are the leaders in
the industry that are looking topush the envelope, that
understand it's about theexperience.
So I I, I gotta tell you, Icouldn't be more excited about

(58:39):
having you all on and getting totalk about IMG.
I know for us, it, I, I have totell you out of all of the
different groups that we workwith, everyone we interact with,
I think in terms of just gettingto be there and see the way
things go, and see the mindset,for me, it's probably one of my
favorites.
So I really appreciate youhaving them on.

Well, thank you.

Do you have anything you wanna leave us
with?
Is there any gleaning little gemor, or anything on the horizon
that you think we absolutelyneed to touch on before we
leave?

Well, you know not more about IMG, but I'll tell
you what, for all the listeners,take a reflection yourself and
look at how do you evolve whereyou're standing today.
Because if we all adopt thatmindset of growth and not to
live in fear of breaking what weknow now, but rather explore
what we could learn later, it,it gives us a much better

(59:31):
skillset and a much more mentalframework to, to.
Adapt to what does get pushed onus by this ever-changing
society.
So don't, uh, like you justsaid, don't sit, don't sit in
your, your mode of, let's justdo it the same way all the time.
Don't be afraid to try certainthings.
Don't be afraid to fail becauseyou just set the boundaries so

(59:53):
you're not failing epically touse your point.
But fail short and fail fast

Okay.
And if you do fail epically, forGod's sake, learn.

Phelps Hope (01:00:01):
and then share it.
Let someone else know, let knowwhat happened.
And, uh, and don't, don't, don'tbe sad about it.
Just understand that it doeshappen.
But I do wish all your listenersall the very best.

James Blain (01:00:11):
Well, thank you again for coming on everyone.
I appreciate you listening tothe podcast.
Hopefully you have some value.
Hopefully you're able to setsome light on who IMG is and
what they do.
As always, thanks again forlistening.

Phelps Hope (01:00:22):
Thank you so much, James.
I really appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.

(01:00:43):
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.

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