Charting a New Course: Exploring the Future of Motorcoach with Michelle Petelicki

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James Blaine (00:25):
Hello everybody and welcome back to another
episode of the GroundTransportation Podcast.
I am super excited today we'vegot Michelle Petski from
Panorama Tours.
Uh, you're on several boards,you are super involved in the
industry.
You have a family business inthe industry.
I think we're probably gonnahave more than we could possibly
fit into just one episode, butboy are we gonna try.

(00:46):
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you for coming on.

Michele Petilicki (00:49):
Thanks James.
I really appreciate being here.
Um, this is my first podcast,full disclosure, so, um, it's
gonna be interesting for sure.

It's gonna be great.
I know it.
So I would say we love to startwith kind of your background and
knowing that you have your dadwith you in the business.
He kind of founded it.
Can you tell us kind of wheredoes the business come from and
then how do you grow into thebusiness?
What's kind of your, your entrypoint in the history there?

Sure.
So it's, it's actually neatbecause people that meet me
think that I grew up in the, inthe business.
My, my dad founded the businessin 1995.
I was

Okay.

16 at the time.
And yes, I just dated myself.
Um, and then I left and I wentto college.
So I really had very little todo with Panorama in the early
years.

Okay.

when I was very, very young, my uncle did
have a business in town, a buscompany, mountain View Tours, in
which after Polish school we'dgo over there and I'd get to see
the buses and hang out with themover there.
But other than that, myinvolvement in the industry
didn't happen until aftercollege.

Okay.

So a little bit different than, than what is
expected when you see the nextgeneration come in where you
anticipate they were in it anddoing it.
Um, mine started later,

Okay.
So you've, you've clearly jumpedin head first, right?
You're in the business, you'rein the industry.
What does that look like then?
Right?
So dad starts the company whenyou're 16, you go off to
college, you know what, can youkind of tell us of those early
years?
Is that something where dadwould kind of tell you how it's
going and then at some pointlater you join?

(02:21):
What does that evolution kind oflook like?
Because clearly it looks likeyou're sitting in the driver's
seat now.
Right?

We are sitting in the driver's seat for
sure.
Um, it was, I was graduatingcollege without an actual firm
direction

Okay.
Like many of us, those that evenmake it right.

Yeah.
and my dad said, so Michelle,you don't really know where
you're going or what you'redoing.
Why don't you come help me for alittle bit?
You know, I recognize this isnot what you wanna do in life,
but just, just for a little bit.
And, that's where it started.
And I, and I came in as asalesperson, you know, talking
to customers.
I was a bartender.
It's how I paid for college, andI

That's a sales job.

Yeah.
You know, I had that customerconversation going, I, you know,
and, and I enjoyed that.
Um, and then CSA came in really,really strong and they started
doing these compliance auditsand suffice it to say we did not
have that paperwork parttogether because we were young.
This was in 2009 or oh eight.

Okay.

and we were just figuring out, well, what
part of this needs to be kept onrecord?
How many records and whatnot.
So when they came in and theysaw what we had, they said,
well, if it's not documented, itnever happened.

Yep.

oh.
here we go.
So I dove headfirst into thatand it turned out that I really
loved that part.

You love the compliance part, you love the
paperwork part.
Okay.

part.
Um, and so that's where I said,you know what?
I think I can make a businessout of this.
I think that this isn't justsomething that I'm gonna do
temporarily for right now.
This is, this is what I'm gonnado.
Um, and that's kind of where itwent.
Um, I did end up getting marriedin the interim.
I had some babies.
Um,

Life.
You had a life.

I did, I did.
And then, um, I guess 2013, Isaid to my dad, if this is what
I'm going to lead, I need tolead it my way because

Okay,

leading it doesn't work for my leadership
style.
Um, and that was really a bigpivot point for us.

so let's back up for a second.
So you come to the business itsounds like 2008, 2009 ish,
right?
You're

in oh two,

okay.

you know, then you get married and you
have babies,

Okay, so, so you come into the business kind of
oh two, life happens, right?
Like, like it does to so many ofus.
What is it that you're walkinginto, right?
Obviously dad starts at 1995,right?
So he's building up by 2002.
Where's the business at?
How many employees do you guyshave?
What does it look like in termsof how many vehicles you're

(04:55):
operating?
What's kind of the, what's kindof the place that you're walking
into?
Can you set that stage for us?

Absolutely.
So he had three vehicles

Okay.

my uncle that I mentioned earlier, mountain
View tours, had a medicalsituation in which he needed to
pull out of the business very,very quickly.

Okay.

with that, my uncle had a fleet of six, if I'm
not mistaken.
Don't quote me on that.
Um, and although my dad wasn'tlooking to take all of them,
there was a facility involved.
And so that's where my dad movedin, helped to fill the void of
where my uncle was coming out.
Um, and that's when I was comingin to help support that
transition.
Um, and so from the three hewent to five.

Okay.
So you're almost walking intowhat sounds like a little bit of
a merger or an acquisition then,

Yes, yes, that is correct.

so, I guess, walk us through then, you are coming
in at sales.
Are you guys then dealing withyour customers and their
customers and having to learntwo different systems?
How did that, how did that kindalook like walking into that?

So at that time, there were no systems,
James.
It was paper, pencil, and acalendar, right?

I just had to set it up.
We, we all knew that was coming.

There's, there's no set sales strategy,
there's no nothing.
You're answering the phone whenit rings.
There's no cell phones.
Really,

Yeah.

of that, right?
If there's a breakdown, you'reon the side of the road.
You gotta go find a toll boothin order to figure out what's
happening.
Um, the, the mechanics had theirown tools with them, and they
were fixing it just to, andeverything was mechanical,

Yeah.

you rig it to get it to the next spot.
Um, but everything was paper,pencil, it was.
So, so to say that I walked intosystems and integrations and
this,

Yeah.

didn't exist.
There was none of that.
It was, it was really, okay,here we go.
Uh, yeah, the phone ringsPanorama, how

Yeah.

you?
And, and he went from there.

So at that point, are you guys doing tours or what
type of work is kind of thebread and butter that you're
coming into?

So it was charter.

Okay.

dad did tours when he had his one bus.
Um, we are Polish very, veryPolish.
Um,

That means the food is delicious.
I will put that out there rightnow.

it is fantastic.
Um, and although technically I'mlike a second, third ish
generation of sorts, um, becausemy mom was born here and

Ah,

it's not important.
We all speak Polish and we areall very much involved in the,
um, the Polish culture.
In fact, my dad was a Marsha atthe Polish Day parade just a few

awesome.

So like, we're very much involved in
that.
That takes me to, at that timethere were a lot of Polish
tourists coming in,

Yeah.

were working through the summer to be here,

Yep.

to also see things in the process.
So our tours would be ski tripsbecause they loved to go skiing
to the mountains, to Vermont, toLake Placid.
Um, in fact, I actually ran myfirst one when I was 16 on my
dad's bus with all my friendsfrom high school.
And we went on a ski trip.
Um, I met my husband on a skitrip on my bus.
Uh, my brother met his wife on acasino trip on our bus.

(07:55):
Um, all trips that we werehosting that we did.
But

This, this really sounds like growing up in the
business, right?
I mean, it didn't start till I,I don't know about you, but
until I, I don't remember muchbelow like middle school.
Right.
But it, I mean, so it reallydoes sound like to a certain
extent you guys were part of thecommunity and you did kind of
grow up in the culture.
And the culture is kind of whatsupported it then.

in a lot of ways.
Yeah.
So we started at tours,

Okay.

tours

That makes sense.

From that perspective in, in which it was
the running of those tours.
And then from there tosupplement it, my uncle would
give my dad work that wascharter driven,

Okay.

customers.
From there, his charter startedto expand and grow, and he
grabbed the second bus and athird bus, but he parked at a
gas station and the dump andeverything was the gas station

Huh.

And, you know, really doing it as, as we
could.
And my brother was awesome atthe time.
He was in college, but living athome and helping out wherever he
could, however he could duringthose early days.
Um, and, and they made it workuntil we moved to the new place
into oh 1, 0 2 and, and justkind of took off from there.

Okay, so you come in, now you, you've got kind of
Mountain View has come togetherwith Panorama Tours.
It's evolved kind of past thetour.
Sounds like we're at about what,six, seven buses at that point.

Uh, I think five, six.

Five, six.
At that point, you're doing thesales.
How does, how does coming in andhelping dad with sales kind of
evolve to where you're at now?
Walk us through how that kind ofgrowth cycle comes and, and you
start kind of changing roles.
Is that something where youworked in other areas as well,
or did you just kinda shift moreinto a leadership role?

I think it's a combination of all of

Okay.

and, and an integration of how I ended up
getting much more involved inthe industry and how that
brought things back.
So I guess best way I could putit is yes, I started in sales.

Okay.

Then I fell in love with the compliance
part, but because there was somuch to learn, it was like
drinking out of a fire hose.
so I started going to differentthings so I could learn as much
as I could so that we were doingit right.

Okay.

and I don't know, this is going way back,
but West Barber at the time wasvery big into the compliance,
and he was like my number oneresource.
When I, when I had a questionand I needed something, I went
straight to the F-M-C-S-Asource.
I'm like, Wes, I wanna know, da,da da.
And so I wanted to more knowmore and more and more and more.
My dad saw that in me.
He saw that drive for theknowledge and wanting to

(10:20):
continuously get better throughthat.
And he said, all right,Michelle, you go do that.
You go figure that out.
Um, you wanna go be a part ofthis?
Yes.
Go, go figure out, take thelesson.

Yeah.

great.
I actually went and took, uh,the bus and Motor Coach Academy
all the way through while I waspregnant.
I had one baby and then pregnantfor the other one.

Yeah.

that process, I went and completed the bus and
Motor Coach Academy and got theaccreditation for passenger
transportation, just anotherlittle something so that I could
bring it in so that we're doingit better.
then I said, well, let me startgoing to these greater New
Jersey Motor Coach meetings.
You know, this is, they're allthe big dogs.

Yep.

really?
They were the big dogs.
And I was just this little ittybitty pee on ankle biter,

Yeah.
Yeah.

And I'm like, lemme go see what they're doing.
And uh, and then I went and Isaid, they're really, they're
great, but they're reallyfeeding towards the larger
operator.
What happens to the little guyslike me?

Okay.

this, we are growing, right?
So we're up to a seven buscompany, eight motor coaches
approximately.
So, well, how do we.
You know, there's those that areeven smaller than me, the one
two busters,

Yeah.

here I am considered a bigger guy to them,
but all the stuff that they'reoffering is so much more, how
can I make an impact?
And so that's why I said, I'mgonna join the board.
Yeah, let's do this.

And, and how you're, you're how far into the
business at this point, right?
So, so two, 2002, you come in,you know, have the family kinda
2008 now you've kinda grown alittle bit.
So is this 2010 ish, or how fardown the road is this?

have to really look at the years, but I
probably 11, 12, maybe somewherein there

Okay.

I'm getting involved with

You're starting to get your footing.

Yes, yes.
Um, and then in, in right aroundthat 12, 13, I said to my dad,
I, I wanna do this my way.

Okay.

dad was a very direct leader.
He was.
For lack of a better phrase,very, very old school.
Like, this is how it needs to bedone.
This is how

Now,

do it, and we're gonna do it like this.
Um, he's, he was amazing atlaying down the right
foundation.
We had all the right pieces, allthe right things, but when it
came to how he led his people,it was very dictatorship and
whatnot.
That's not me.
I'm, I'm, I'm not really good atthat.

okay,

makes me very uncomfortable to say, you have
to do it like this, because Isaid, so I don't raise my
children that way.
I'm just not, it doesn't workfor me.
So I said, I'll, I'll do it, butyou gotta let me do it my way.
And he said, all right, let'sgo.
We became a woman owned buscompany.

so you're stepping into leadership at this point.
This is, this is Michelle takingthe reins.

That's it.
That's it.
He, uh, we act, I actually gotthe presidency earlier, but then
with the kids, I said that Ididn't actually do it until
right around this time.
Um, and then we made thedecision to join Spader.
Um, joining a 20 group allowedme, uh, I guess.
It gave me the backing to makethe decisions that I wanna make.

(13:17):
I had support from them.
It gave me confidence

Yeah.

otherwise, because my dad and I would go
together, right?

Yeah.

my Spader group was amazing, listening to
my dad talk and then listeningto me talk.
And

Yeah.

my dad would have his thing and then I would
have my thing.
Um, and they were great atsupporting my growth, and my dad
was awesome at letting me do it,you know, letting me take the
reins and saying, all right,Michelle, go with it.
This is yours.

He's so, it really, you know, it's, it's one
of the neat things of workingwith a family, right?
You know, as a father, I alwayssay that anybody that doesn't
want their kids to be betterthan them has something wrong
with them.
Does that mean there's not gonnabe that moment where you're
like, man, kids finally betteredme.
This, this hurts.
That hurts a little bit overhere, but God, I couldn't be
prouder.
So I think that makes a lot ofsense.

(14:01):
Now let me ask you, we havepeople from all kinds of parts
of the ground transportationindustry.
Tell us a little bit, what is aSpader group kind of describe
that for people that are goingSpader group.
I've never heard of that.
Um, obviously, you know, you'vementioned it's a 20 group, but
what does that kind look like?
What's kind of the value thatyou're getting there and what's
kind of the involvement that youhave?

So for, for my group specifically, we are
our biggest advocates.
We are our support, we are ourboard of directors outside of
our

Like an advisory board then?

yeah, so we're financially accountable to
each other.
We're talking about what's goingon, and they're asking me and
challenging me on some of mydecisions and some of my
expenses, um, on some of myrates on whatever that would be.
They're, they're invested in mysuccess just as I'm invested in
their success.
Um, we now not investedfinancially invested emotionally

(14:54):
and and whatnot.
Um, we are non-competes.
Of similar size, uh, indifferent markets.
So I'm here in Jersey.
We've got a member in Maine.
We've got a member out inWashington.
We had a member down in Florida.
We've got Iowa, we've got Texas.
So I mean, you're talkingnationwide, so there are
nuances, right?
Me in the Manhattan market, myinsurance is always gonna be the

(15:17):
highest in the group.
There's just no way around

Not the lottery you wanna win, but the one you
got,

It's the one I got.
Same thing with tolls.

yeah.

are always gonna be the highest over here.
It's, you know, I can't go threemiles without hitting a toll
booth somewhere.
Um, so, so, but I get to seemonth after month after month
where the trends are, wherethey're at,

All right.

am in relation to that, and I can
adjust my business strategyaccordingly to make sure that I
continue to be successful.

Well, and it's, it's interesting because I think
every single successful guest,every single successful company,
it's the number one thing wehear over and over is
mentorship, right?
You've gotta have people thatare there to support you.
You've gotta have people thatare there to point out the
potholes so that you don't driveinto them.
You've got so many people thathave kind of blazed the trail
that you're following, and I kidyou not.

(16:06):
This is something that comes upalmost every single podcast, and
it doesn't seem to be somethingthat's industry specific, right?
It doesn't matter what side ofground transportation you're on,
that's key.
So at this point, you're kind ofgrowing, you've finally taken
the reins, right?
We've now got you in charge ofthe company.
What happens next?

Uh, well, I, I just start to do it.
I

Yeah.

really getting in there.
Um, we grow out of our nine atthat point into 10.
I said we need a bigger facilitybecause really our facility, uh,
okay, you can't see it, youcan't picture it, but it is
literally this little tinyshoebox between two homes.

Okay.

area on a main road that you have to back
into that you would drive pastand never know that this was a
garage.
Um, where we did all this workand all this, when my speeder
group first came to visit me andthey saw, I mean, they sent
pictures home.
If you think our facility is aproblem, look at this

And they're making it work.

company.
You know, it was just what itwas.
But we moved into our next, me,our next facility, and

Yeah.

to grow through there.
Um, had a number of but the

Okay.

that I did were unique in the sense that
I'd never acquired the companyand their DOT number and their
stuff.
It was always some sort of, uh,a nuanced deal

Okay.

was beneficial for the person who
wanted out.

Yep.

for me to be able to take care of their
people.
Um, I am naturally a, acaregiver.
That's what I like to do.
I like taking care, care ofpeople.
I like taking care of my staff.
I like taking care of my house.
I just like taking care ofstuff.
Um, so when they were going out,I wanted to make sure that their
people were taken care of and wewould structure out a deal that
made sense for both.
Um, and was financially adventadvantageous so that I could

(17:59):
continue to care for peoplesuccessfully?
Um, because let's be honest, ifyou don't, don't have the money,
you're not taking care ofpeople, um, you're not taking
care of your maintenance, you're

No,

care of stuff.
It, it costs money to, to do itright.

and I, I think there's something really
important to be said therebecause.
One of my mentors, right?
Um, a Athena Grimm who's amentor of mine out of, out of
Alaska, and she, she was sittingdown with me one way talking
and, and she said, you know, ifyou can't step away for a day,
if you can't leave for a day, ifyou can't let it run, you're
gonna be terrified, right?

(18:34):
As a business owner, the firstday you're like, I'm gonna just
not look at any emails, I'm justnot gonna do anything.
If you can't do that with yourbusiness for a day, you might
not have a business.
Right?
And it was one of those momentsfor me where the first time I
said, you know what?
I'm gonna go take care ofwhatever I need to do, growth
related, otherwise, you know,I'm gonna go work on this piece
and know that the team, that thepeople that the systems and

(18:55):
strategies I've got in place aregonna work.
Um, it was absolutelymortifying, right?
Um, I don't know if you, for me,that was kind of a, a game
changing moment in businesswhere you're just like, oh gosh,
I'm, it, it reminds me a littlebit of the first time you leave
your kids alone and you're like,am I gonna come back to like a
smoldering hill?
That was my house?
Um, but.

(19:16):
Kind of like Athena said, whathappened the first time it came
back, the house was still there.
Right?
The business was still there.
Things were great.
They were doing well.
And I think to your point, andyou, you mentioned this in your
form of leadership, you've gottalet people have ownership over
what they're doing.
You've gotta let people growprofessionally and personally,
and letting them growprofessionally and personally

(19:38):
helps you grow and ultimatelylets you build a business.
So,

James, I'm so glad that you brought that up.
Um, I am so proud of my team, soApril for me, if anybody follows
my LinkedIn has been a wild ridefor sure,

well, you've been lots of, lots of events.
Lots of, I mean,

I, I think I was physically in the office
seven days all month.
It was insane.
But in the month of April, wealso had a compliance review

oh geez.

the feds called and said, we're coming
next week.
And I said, I'm not around, butsure, why not?

Really trusting the team.

we, I got my letter, uh, last week of
satisfactory rating.
Everything's done.
Not a single

Awesome.

I mean, if that's not a true testament to
the people that I have on myteam, I don't know what it's,
they're just amazing.
Um, and it's because of that,that.
I continue to, obviously youcould tell that I love what I
do.
I, it's, it's not a surprise.
Um, but I continue to love itevery day because I come back
and I'm doing it with peoplethat have that same passion and
have that same

Yeah,

and wanna do it and continuously want to grow
and get better and, and, youknow, it just, just makes it all
work.

I, I can see that.
And I think that's somethingimportant in business.
So.
Alright, so we've got, we've gotthe growth now we're doing
acquisitions now.
One of the interesting things,as you mentioned, you were
thinking about the acquisitionsdifferently, so I'd love to
learn a little bit more.
When you were looking atacquisitions, are you looking
at, Hey, I want.
Assets in terms of the vehiclesor the property or whatever

(21:08):
might be there.
Were you looking at, I reallywant these people?
Were you looking at the customerlist?
Was the combination, how did youapproach that differently than
someone that might traditionallyacquire a company?

So every single one of them was
different.

Okay.

Um, if you think about the first
acquisition that my dad did, itwas really about the property.

Yep.

More than anything else.
It was an acquisition about theproperty.
Our next acquisition that wassubstantial enough was for
people.

Okay.

Um, they had four vehicles in their fleet
and, and one big customercontract, but they had four
vehicles in their fleet.
I did not care for theirmaintenance.
I knew I wasn't acquiring theirassets.
That was not my intent at all.

Yeah.

but they had a great person in their office
that I really, really wanted andthey had a really advantageous
contract for

Yeah.

really, really wanted.
So that second was verystrategic for those two things.
Anything else that came throughwas just gravy, um, or I would
dump accordingly.

Yeah.

so that was the next piece.
Um, the next one was reallyabout market footprint.
Um, I had one section and Iwanted the southern section.

Uh,

the southern section.
So that was really aboutexpanding my footprint into
still something that'srelatively local.
But growing that out.
So every single one of thosewas, oh, and then there was one
really assets I, I

yeah.

and I needed them without buying brand new at
the time.
Um, so it was really about theassets on that one.
every single one of thoseacquisitions, it's, it's really
digging into, well, what can youoffer me

Yep.

can I give you so that we both walk away
with what we need at the end ofthe day and we continue to
service the people well.

Yeah, it, it, it's about finding a win-win.
You know, I, I love the saying,you know, there are people in
the world that are.
Win-win.
There are people in the worldthat are win-lose.
There are people lose lose.
I have always been a huge, hugeperson when it comes to win-win.
And you know, it's funny, Ialways tell people I am a very
trusting person and has thatburned me?

(23:09):
Absolutely.
Have I been cheated?
Have I been stole from,absolutely.
But I would also say that I'vehad so many wins where that
trust or that faith or, or thathas really worked in my favor
because if you try to operatewith that mentality of, I'm
always gonna be guarded, Ialways have to get something on
the other guy.
I've always gotta win.
I've always gotta do that.

(23:30):
You're going to end up in aposition where you're missing on
so many of the greatopportunities.
So I love talking to people withthat same mentality.

Yeah, so what's very cool is every single
one of our acquisitions, theseller came to me directly.
Um.

Okay.

It was just one of those things, even
something like with this mostrecent where DECAMP was

Yeah.

what an honor it was.
Now Jonathan and I, we go back along time and we're really good
friends, but for him to come tome and say, Michelle, I can't
imagine anybody else other thanPanorama taking care of my
people.
Um, would you be willing to, tostep in and this is how we're
going to do this?
And I was like, yeah, let's,let's figure it out.
Let's, let's

Yep.

and figure out what's gonna work so that we
can, we can make this happen.
And I got the greatest emailyesterday of one of his regular
customers that said, DECAMPcouldn't have chosen a better
carrier to carry on taking careof their customers.
And I'm like, oh, I love this.

Well, and I think, I think what's worth, you know,
as a business owner myself,right?
The, the name on our company isPAX Training, but a lot of times
I'm serving as the face, orBruce, my business partner,
serving as the face.
There's, you leave a part of youand a part of you always lives
within that business, that time,that effort, that love, it
becomes a part of your family.

(24:43):
And so I think for a lot ofpeople, I.
When you get to that point, ifthey're looking to exit, it's
okay, who's gonna take care ofthis family member who's, you
know, it's kinda like you haveyour very first car, you love
that car.
You know, imagine if you soldthat car and the second you
signed it, you said, man, I'msuper happy you did that.
I'm gonna crush it and sell itfor scrap.

(25:03):
Right.
I think all of us would be like,you're gonna do what?
No, no, no, no, no.
Give it back.
Give it back.
Um, I think we all have thatsame mentality with our
business.
We have this love, we have thispride, we have all this time
we've put in.
We want to know that our clientsare gonna be taken care of.
We want to know things arethere.
And I think there's a lot to besaid, and Ken's not with us on
this episode, but I think Kenwould a hundred percent agree.

(25:25):
A big chunk of that is all thenumbers have to be there.
All the financial has to work.
You know, there's the businessside of it.
But there are plenty of dealsthat are, like you said.
I wanna make, I would rathertake less, or I'd rather do this
because I know you're gonna takecare of my people.
You're gonna take care of mycompany, you're gonna take care
of my customers, which I thinkis huge.

(25:46):
So you've been able to kind ofgrow that out, scale that up,
you know, talk to me a littlebit about how does that, you
know, how does that morph intotoday?
Obviously you, you figured outvery early on that you wanted to
have a group, you wanted tohave, you know, association
involvement.
You're on several differentboards now.
Obviously you've jumped in veryquickly there to stick up for

(26:06):
the little guy.
Now you're kind of getting tothe point where you've still got
the little guy mind, but you'regetting larger and larger.
How does that start working interms of industry advocacy, in
terms of what you're doing inthe associations, those types of
things?
How does that kind of evolve andgrow?
And then one of the bigquestions that I always wanna
know is, what does that do foryour business?

(26:26):
Right?
There's so many people thatthink, oh, I'm not gonna make
any money on that.
I shouldn't do it.
But clearly you're, you'rehaving tons of success.
What does that all look like?

So my, my involvement at, at Greater New
Jersey now Greater Northeasthas, um, has evolved in time
where I was just a board memberand now growing into a vice
president role of the

Okay.

Um, I became the legislative chair post
covid.
I don't like politics, like, Idon't like the mudsling.
I don't love that, but I loveregulation.
I love digging into the nuancesof the legislation that's coming
out.
I love making sure that it makessense

Yep.

us here.
Because a lot of the times it'swritten by some legislative
writer who just cuts and pastesand throws stuff together, and
you read it and you're like, whocame up with

Have you ever seen a bus before?

I mean, I don't even know it.
Sometimes I just mind boggling.
Um, but it was during CO.
That I, I lost this intimidationfactor of who Washington DC
people are.
Right?
What Congress is, um, and how,what I say really matters.
Um, it, I didn't, I didn't buyinto that before.

(27:42):
Uh, it wasn't really until I wasdown for that rolling for
awareness, I talked for 80,000hours.
Okay, that's an exaggeration.
It was really only four, but itwas a very long time to be live
on Facebook and talk, and talkand talk.
Um, yet I continuously,evidently had something to say I
had thousands of people watchingme.

(28:04):
I had people from othercountries watching me while I
talked about the importance ofour industry.

Yeah.

again, near and dear to my heart, we connect
people in ways that no othermode of transportation can.
We put the groups together, we

Yep.

evacuations, we take care of the military.
We we're there to celebrate yourweddings.
We're there to take you on afuneral.
We're there for every singlepart of that.
And we're not just a commodityto go from A to B.
We are part of your experienceand we are part of those
memories and we are necessary.
So while I was talking about allthat stuff, I realized, gosh, I

(28:40):
guess I do have something tosay.

At what hour?
Right?
Four hours.
Which, which hour was it thatthat clicked for you?

it really wasn't until the end where

I'm kidding.

uh, put together a bloopers reel for me
and, and the bloopers reel.
Oh my, oh boy.
Um, but, but it, I didn't expectit to become such a big thing
and it, and all of a sudden Ihad more and more viewers and I
called my girls into the office.
I'm like, I need you to startmonitoring my.
because I have so many commentsin I can't, I don't even know

(29:10):
what they're saying.
Um, and so I had two girls onthe computers helping to answer
questions and comments that werecoming in.
And, um, and then I watched itback later and, and it was
wonderful.
But through that, I, I was like,all right, let's, let's see what
I could do.
I know I'm just little old me,but let's see what we can do
here.
Uh, and that's when I started toget involved on the legislative

(29:31):
side locally.

Okay, so you started at the local.
Now are we talking at themunicipal level, the state
level?
Where, where did you, where'dyou first jump in?

actually it was a lot of New York jargon.
Um, but, but, uh, then it waslittle Bergen County stuff

Okay.

there.
And then it was through, uh,greater New Jersey, greater
Northeast Motor CoachAssociation that I became the
chair of the legislativecommittee there.
Um, and I helped to lead thecharge in a number of little
things here in the state that,that work.
were problematic.
Um, now we tackle things thatare, uh, a little bit more
regional.
The congestion toll is a bigthing that we're talking about.

(30:09):
And, um, I recently spoke at apress conference with, uh,
Congressman Gottheimer inregards to how if this really
was a congestion, toll busesshould be exempt.
We are the

Right.

We're not the problem.

If the problem is congestion, why would, why would
we punish the guys that aregrouping everyone into one
vehicle?
How?
Explain to us how that works,please.
Uh,

I mean, so it's that, that type of
conversation that I'mcontinuously having.
The idle, the idle problem ishuge right now.
You know, those summons arecoming fast and furious.
They're months, sometimes almosta year late.
And then you don't have yourcourt date or your trial date or
whatever they wanna call itthese days until way after that
your footage is gone.
You can't prove your innocencemost of the time.

(30:53):
And, and they're racking up bigmoney and it's.
It's unfortunate because we haveto take care of the people in
our vehicle.

Right.

if you are not gonna gimme time to cool
down that bus to make sure thatit's comfortable for my 80,
90-year-old people that aregetting into that bus and then
I'm sitting in traffic trying toget over the bridge back to the
jersey side, they're gettingsick in my vehicle.
I can't have that.

Yeah.

Um, not to mention other things like making
sure that all the, the brake dothe brake check.
You can't do a brake check inless than three minutes.
You know, you can't make surethat all the clicks come into
place, right?
You, you switch that ignition,it's gotta go click, click,
click, click, click before youcan start that vehicle, right?
Um, and then you need people toget on and you don't have a lot
of time to load curbside in NewYork either.

(31:37):
Everybody's in your way, they'rebeeping at you, you gotta go.
Um, so

It's like the movies.

yeah, or you know, you get there a couple
minutes earlier and the group'son their way out.
Well,

Yeah.

keep it running to get them to get on.
They want you to circle theblock again.
Well, now circling the block isanother 20 minutes.

Yep.

your group, they're waiting.
So, you know, so thatconversation, continuously
talking about that and the factthat, yeah, the MTA can idle,
and maybe they'll write them asummons, but they don't pay.
They don't pay the fine.
They're exempt from paying thefine, well, why am I not exempt
from paying the,

It is, it's really interesting.
Right?
And for anyone listening, it'sgoing, oh man, New York.
This, I think what a lot ofpeople fail to realize is
there's a couple places in thiscountry where transportation
kind of starts.
And, and I mean that in terms ofwhat happens in those major
markets is likely gonna trickleout, is likely gonna affect

(32:33):
everybody.
They're looking at thosemarkets, um, you know, big ones,
New York, Los Angeles, right?
Kind of that area, you know, theNew England area, the California
area, those are huge.
But then you have smallermarkets, Chicago, Dallas, Miami,
you know, and then you got kindof the whole East coast up and
down there.
What I think a lot of peoplefail to realize is it's very

(32:55):
easy to say, well, that's NewYork.
Eh, that's not me.
That's not my problem.
And they don't notice that, hey,these become kind of the testing
areas.
These become kinda the focusareas.
If you are not, you know, if youare, if you are just in your
business, if you're just buriedin your business and you're not
worried about those types ofthings, what happens is when
that wave comes, you're gonnaget ran over with it.

(33:18):
And so I think it's reallyimportant that everybody kind of
hears and, and knows that thesetypes of issues, although some
of them are unique to New York.
Are all issues that we're gonnaeventually see kind of moving
out through the country.
I can share that.
When I was on the Hill recently,I, I, it's my first time being
on the Hill when I was in theseoffices and we were talking with

(33:40):
those staffers, you know, itwas, well, you know, we're,
we're worried about CongestivePro.
Well, that's only New York.
Well, that represents one of thelargest markets for the
passenger.
Not just bus, not just blackcar.
Not one of the largest marketsfor passenger ground
transportation in the country.
And let me tell you what, if theTransit authority there is doing

(34:02):
congestion pricing and they'regetting a bunch of revenue and
they're bringing in a bunch ofmoney and they're not required
to make buses exempt, andthey're able to take.
All of Pastor GrandTransportation and essentially
turn us into an ATM limps.
Get real when other cities startsaying, Hey, we need money in
our transit authority.
You know what the New Yorkersdid that we should totally
follow.

(34:22):
And so I think you have theseissues that start at a local
level that become eventuallynational issues that we have to
get in front of.

Well, James, they already have projects in
other, in other states that arecoming in.
So when I was, when I was on thehill, we did the

Huh.

fly in at the beginning of the month.
Um, one of the things that wereally pushed hard is we have a
new bill on the table.
It's the HR 25 26.
Um, this bill is the Bus Parodyand Clarity Act.
Um, and so there's a couple ofthings that it touches on, but
the third piece of that is thesecongestion trolling projects.
Um, yeah, we can fight on theNew Jersey side.

(34:58):
I mean the New York side.
All we want over here and maybeeven win, but these projects are
coming in other places.
What the HR 25 26 is looking todo is any new congestion,
congestion project that fallsunder those parameters will have
all buses exempt.
Again, we're the solution.
Not to mention all of the, allof the environmental things that

(35:19):
we now have in place to makesure that we're not polluting
the air, if we're not electric.
We have so many greeninitiatives that have taken
place over the years for ourvehicles that do you, some will
say that the air going out iscleaner than the air coming in.
I, I haven't seen that proven.
Maybe it is.
It might be, but not fornothing.

(35:40):
They're not those old smokybuses of our grandparents.
It's not the same

Not even close.
And I think, you know, I had, Ihad a moment.
When I was in DC just kind ofthose head shaking moments,
right?
There's several of those, right?
You're gonna, you go togovernment, you're gonna have
lots of head shaking moments andyou're gonna go, where's doing
my taxes?
Uh, but one of the interestingthings is you see a lot of talk
about, we need to go green.

(36:04):
We need to do this.
Do you know the irony when youwould walk through the park,
literally you're walking aroundthe capitol at night and they've
got these big, you know, thesame thing they use in
construction.
You've seen that tall pole.
They've got the lights on it.
They light up the constructionarea.
All of these parks, all of theseareas are being built by those.
And what do you hear?
It's a diesel generator.

(36:24):
I'm like, really?
Really?
You guys couldn't get extensioncords.
You couldn't plug it in.
You couldn't at least hide it,right?
You're gonna come after.
All of these industries where,especially in busing, we've got
56 passengers on one vehicle,which means even if we make the
emissions of five or six cars,we still took 50 off the road.

(36:46):
Um, but as you're walkingthrough the capitol, it's not
birds chirping, it's la la lala.
Right?
They've got the diesel generatorrunning in the background.
And so I think one of the thingsthat also was an aha moment for
me was when I was sitting downwith the aides, when I was
sitting down in the offices andtalking to the different people
that are there to represent us.

(37:07):
If they don't know your story,there's a line of people waiting
to tell theirs.
And so I think one of the, I, Ithink one of the things that,
that for me wasn't as apparentis they have, you know, a line
of people with asks, with needs,with considerations, and if

(37:27):
there's another.

all legitimate.

Yes.
Yes.

have a case.

I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give a, a shout out
and I don't, I don't wanna go ona tangent, but we were sitting
in Jerry Moran's office, right?
I'm a Kansas guy.
So we were sitting there atJerry Moran's office, um, and
these, some of the sweetestladies I ever met in my life
came in and they were familymembers of, you know, soldiers,
right?
People putting their lives onthe line, right?
They're married to people in themilitary and they were there to

(37:54):
talk, to, talk to the fact thatthey have mold in their homes on
base.
They have children that aregetting sick, right?
These are people that are layingdown their lives for our country
that are literally ready to die,defending the freedom of America
and their kids, their wives,their families, their spouses
are living in homes that havemold, and their kids are getting

(38:17):
sick, right?
Think about that.
You're overseas, you'refighting, potentially putting
your life on the line, dyingover there and back home.
Your family or even at base,wherever you're at, your family
is dying of molt.
Uh, it immediately was one ofthose heart-stopping moments of
you have people with similarthings coming in and out.
There were union reps, there wasthe, you know, trucking

(38:40):
industry.
You have all these people comingthrough and the thing becomes
there.
If your story story's notgetting told, you're not gonna
get represented.
So let me ask you what.
What would you say to theoperators that are kind of
smaller?
Uh, you know, maybe they're not,maybe they've never had that aha
moment.
I'll be blunt, when we startedthe podcast, I didn't think

(39:02):
anybody wanna listen to me?
To my listeners, thank you forlistening to me.
I hope I'm making you proud.
Um, I still wonder whether ornot I'm giving you exactly what
you want, so please let me knowif I am.
But what do you say to thosepeople that maybe are the more
introverted, the shy-er onesthat, hey, I don't know that I'm
ever gonna go start a podcast orbe on a board or talk to, you
know, a legislator or anotherrepresentative.

(39:23):
What do you, what do you tellthem in terms of how they can
get involved, how they cansupport, how they can be a part
of the solution?

I think everybody has a voice, even if
it's a little bit quieter.
Um, your perspective is valid.
A hundred percent yourperspective is reality.
And if you don't share it,you're never gonna, you're never
gonna be able to get back whatyou give.
Um, and be authentic.
I, I, that all the time, right?
Don't tell me what you think youwant me to hear.

(39:51):
I need to know what you have tosay, even if you don't think
that I'm gonna like it.
Because through that, there'scontinuous growth, growth within
the community, growth foranybody personally who has the
opportunity to talk to you.
Um, and relationships thatcontinue to get built.
Um, one of the, so going back tothe hill and so we do our fly
in.

Huh,

For me, it is probably one of my favorite
events all year that I lookforward to.
Um, the relationships that Ibuild allow me to be able to go
to somebody when I have aproblem.
If you just go to somebody everytime you have a problem, they
don't wanna listen to you.
But if you go to them and youtalk to

huh.

you build relationships with them, well
now, okay, now you've got adialogue.
Now there's something.
And not only can you go to themwhen you have a problem, but
they're now coming to me whenthey've got a concern or they
have a question, or they have abill that came across their desk
that has to deal with this.
What does that look like?
Right?
How does that affect you beingan operator on the ground?
Does this affect you?

(40:47):
Is this in a good way or in abad way?
Um, so when it comes to thatparticular event, whether you're
introverted and quiet, orwhether you can talk and talk
and talk, it doesn't matterbecause every single
organization, whether you wentfor NLA right, and, and you went
for

W Yeah, so, so I was there for na, I missed,
unfortunately I missed yo MAsthis year.
I, I wasn't able to make it tothat one.
So I went to the NationalLimousine Association when I was
there on the hill.
And then the day afterturnaround, go right back to the
hill representing atransportation alliance.
Right.
Send concept.
Different list of asks.
Right.
A little more tailored to thatindustry.

But, but they provide you with everything you
need,

Yes.

the lobbyists do such a great job of
structuring your meetings.
You're never alone.
If it just so happens thatthere's nobody else in your
particular delegation that cango with you, well, they'll send
somebody of their own so thatyou

Yeah.

and you feel confident.
You're never left out theresaying, oh, what am I gonna talk
about?
How am I gonna do this?
And they give you a flyer.
So, worst case scenario, you goin, you introduce yourself, you
tell them a little bit aboutyou, uh, the company you run,
how many employees you have, andthen you leave them behind with
the flyer and say, if you haveany questions, give,

Oh,

and I'll see what I can do and see what I can
find out for you.
I'll connect you with the rightpeople.
So it doesn't have to be a, asuper chatty, extroverted
person.
This is

now.

that sometimes the quietest voices
are the loudest.

And I think the other thing that people don't
realize is it's a conversation.
You know, you have the abilityto talk to them, to ask them
things, to have a conversation.
I know that we were sitting inan office and we were talking
about a piece of legislation,and it was, well, you know,
that's more on the house side.
That's not really something thatwe're dealing with right now.

(42:31):
It's the house side.
Okay, great.
Well, what, what would you tellus, right, if I said, Hey, we're
gonna have you come with us,you're gonna come with us to our
next meeting, and you were gonnabe sitting there, this is who
we're gonna go talk to.
Do you have any advice?
What would you say?
How would you approach it?
Um, you know, how, what are,what's kind of the general
feeling?
What's China?
The general thought around theoffice.
I will tell you the, the big ahamoment for me is when you think

(42:55):
of legislators.
You know, when I was a kid, Ithought of, you know, they're
all in the, the Capitol buildingand they're all in there, and
it's all these old people andthey're all, you know, debating
these things and having.
It really what, what happened tome is I got there, and for those
of you that that don't know,right?
You've got the Capitol building,there's three buildings on the
south side that make up thehouse.
Um, it's the cannon, it's theLongworth and it's the Rayburn,

(43:18):
um, cannon being kind of thehistoric pretty one on the north
side, right?
You have the other side of it.
That's where you have theSenate, you've got your, um,
and, and gosh, I hope I getthese right.
So you've got the Russellbuilding, you've got the Kinson,
and then you've got the heart,right?
And that's in order.
Russell being the historic, whatI didn't realize is, guys, this
is like a little college.
You've got a tunnel that runs tothe capitol in between, so it

(43:41):
goes from Canon to the Capitol,and you have one that goes from
Russell to the Capitol and theycan go back and forth and then
the three buildings areconnected underground.
Um, and it really felt to me, Iwas like, I'm back on the KU
campus, right?
Um, it, it's a lot of youngerpeople there that are actually
the staffers that are doingeverything.
Guess what they all do.

(44:01):
They all go down to thecafeteria in the basement
together.
They all know each other.
A lot of the staffers that wetalk to, oh, I've worked for so
and so and I worked for here,and I jumped from the house side
to this side.
And so I think one of the thingsthat was really interesting to
me is that there's you, you gothere expecting one thing, you
find another, and then you'vegot your kind of list of asks.

(44:22):
But I think for me, a lot of itwas kind of having that
education that I got from beingthere, from being involved.
And I think kind of like we'vealready talked about your
advocacy there.

you know, the first time you go in and they do
prep you and

Yeah.

you're probably gonna have meetings
more with staff than with youractual congressmen and women.
But the staffers are the onesthat are so knowledgeable.
They really know theinformation.

They're the one doing the work.

that done.
Yeah.
Yeah.
it's, it's pretty wild whileyou're sitting there and
they've.
They really do their research,so I, I love seeing that.
And, and you're right, they'reyoung.

They, they, I, I, I've got a 20-year-old
stepdaughter and the firstmeeting we sat down with, I
went, oh Lord, I am pitching myindustry to my stepdaughter.
I really hope she doesn't pullher phone out and jump on
TikTok.
Um, no, in all seriousness, it,it was, it was a very
eye-opening in differentexperience.
So, you know, obviously thoseevents have come and gone.

(45:18):
They were very successful forall the industries that went.
What does it look like to youbeing involved in these
associations, being on the boardof these associations?
One of the things I hear all thetime from people is, I don't
wanna put my time into that.
'cause that's not gonna grow mycompany.
That's not gonna make me money.
That's not gonna increase myrevenues.
Um, clearly you guys have beenextraordinarily successful.

(45:39):
How do those types of thingskind of translate over and what
are some of the non-directbenefits that you see that you
would encourage people to beinvolved with?

So, yeah, I, I am very, very much involved,
but it, it actually stems backto, uh, my dad, uh, when I
started and how he said to me,you know, this, this business is
built on relationships.

Yep.

It's relationships within, it's
relationships in the community,it's relationships beyond.
Um, and that's how you move theneedle from being a commodity to
being something more.
Uh, and so with that, I was ableto take that mentality moving
forward and say, all right,where am I most impactful while
also being to being able tobring everything back that I

(46:21):
need.
Again, I'm a woman in anindustry that predominantly has
been male for a long

Yep.

when I got in.
It's not so much like thatanymore.
In fact, it's actually reallycool to see, see that shift.
Um, but at the time I recognizedthat there were a lot of
disadvantages walking into theroom as a woman when there were
no other men there.
How do I make a difference andhow do I get them to treat me as
an equal that I can bring itback?
Um, what I found is that thereal men are real men and they

(46:50):
have no problem mentoring a

Yeah.

and it was never an issue and it was never
a problem.
Those that felt it was well.
Sorry, you're missing out.

Yeah.

and that was that.
But going out there and beinginvolved and building these
relationships, you continuouslylearn something and you can
bring it back.
Uh, my first Seder meeting,meeting, I learned about a tax
credit that I wasn't takingadvantage of

Oh, geez.
Yeah.

I could go back three years and get it.
Well, I just paid for my nextfive years of spader

savings.
Instant savings.

Yeah.
So it's, it's that.
Then you have a conversation atthe bar at a UMA expo, right?
And you're sitting there andyou're talking to somebody and
it just turns out that they havea client in their neck of the
woods that does a lot of work inthe New York market as well.
You know what?
I was just sending them towhoever.
How would you feel about givingthem a or them giving you a
shot?
I would

Huh?

Out of nowhere.
On top of that, I happen to havea, a bus breakdown a NOx sensor
of all things out in the boomdocks in the middle of the
country.

Oh geez.
Oh, geez.

I'm just outside of St.
Louis.
What am I gonna do?
How am I, and I start flipping,oh, and I'm in Florida on a
fishing trip.
Mind you, while this is allhappening, and my girls are
doing a great job trying tofigure out, okay, we can do
this, this, that, and thenfinally they're at wit's end.
They're like, Michelle, we don'tknow where else to go.
So here I am flipping through mycontacts.
I'm like, all right, who have Iseen?
Who do I know?
And, you know, it's, it's thoserelationships that it's on a

(48:18):
Saturday at night,

Yep.

me out.
They're gonna take care of me.
They're gonna make sure that itgets done.
Um, and, and so those areactionable situations, right?
Take a step out of that.
As you grow as a human, as aleader, as somebody in your
community, um, need, you needmentors.

(48:43):
Um, at the same time, you needto be a mentor in doing that, by
giving back.
In that give and take, I, Ithink that grows our.
it grows our economy.
It makes sure that the nextgeneration coming through is
responsible and they're giversand

right.

takers.
Um, you know, my kids in middleschool, they were part of a tres
program.
I don't know if you've everheard of

No, no, no.
Enlighten me.
What is this

So a res program.
It's an entrepreneurial type ofprogram in

already?
Love it.

they have to go from inventing this product

Okay.

the product, to ultimately selling the
product in, in a marketplace,you know?
And, and my son came up withthese little bo sockets that,
you know, it's boy odors shortbo and you would put them in
their sports shoes and they werefilled with baking soda and like
a little bit of lavender oil,

I could use that for my hockey gear I'm already
interested in.

Yeah.
And, and would sell.
And, and he cut them and madethem out of old sheets that were
then just tied together.
And, and he sold all of hisstuff and he had to market

Huh?

price it and do all that stuff, but.
Part of that TRS program wasreally about bringing people
that are in our community thatare leaders or entrepreneurs or
business people that would helpmentor these children through
the process.
And I really, really loved it.
So now in the MeadowlandsChamber, I was just speaking
with the president of theChamber, they're looking to
start a leadership of collegestudents

Okay.

are going to go through that.
Now, does that really give memoney today and bring something
back today?
Probably not, although theycould probably teach me a lot
about AI and social media andall

Yeah.

stuff, right?
but in turn, in time, it makesthe more responsible people that
and ultimately promoting thingsmoving forward.
So I, I think that there's,there's something that you get
today

Right.

something that you get long term,

Well,

important to recognize those.

I think you've also hit upon something that's
really important here.
Uh, obviously no, most companiesdon't tip me in overnight
success.
One of my favorite quotes isfrom Big Shout out to to Ralph
Casone, my father-in-law.
One of my favorite Ralph quotes,and there's many, many of them,
is I'm an overnight success.

(51:00):
20 years in the making it,everybody would, and, and it
came from the fact that everyonecoming, oh, Ralph, you're an
overnight successful.
But they didn't see the 20 yearsof him building the business, of
him telling, you know, peoplesaying, oh, you can't do it.
You should give up.
It's not gonna work out.
You're not right.
Now he's got, you know, hisdaily driver's an Escalade.
He's got, you know, the nicehouse.

(51:20):
He's, he's able to live a nicerlife and everybody's, oh, you're
an overnight success.
I'm almost taking away from himin a sense, what he's done, but.
You reach a point, hopefully inyour business where now you have
the opportunity to get back.
Now you have the opportunity,like you said, to be a mentor to
all of the people that arecoming up to all of the people

(51:41):
that are coming through.
And I think it's also importantto note, you don't necessarily
have to be coming to the end ofyour career when you're there.
You know, you could be at thepoint where, hey, you're 2, 3, 4
years in and somebody comes toyou and says, Hey, I'm gonna
start a business tomorrow.
And you're able to go, well, letme tell you all the things I got
wrong.
Let me tell you all the.
Right.
I, I am and, and I'm a greatexample of that.

(52:03):
Yeah.
I would love to tell you, thiswas my first business and it
went great and there was never aharsh moment.
There were several otherattempts and, and thankfully I
had people take me under theirwing.
Um, but you know, when I coachmy son in hockey, I tell'em, if
you're not falling, you're notlearning.
If you are constantly on yourfeet, you never fall.
You're not pushing hard enough.
And I think in business we havethat as well.

(52:25):
So I, I think kind of leavingoff there, what do you see as
the future?
Where do you think the industrygoes?
Where do you think we go?
What do you think the next fiveto 10 years goes?
I know you and I talked beforethe podcast a little bit about
how we, we kind of seem to agreethat mixed fleet is really the
direction, but are there anythings there that stand out or

(52:45):
anything that you think is, Hey,this is on the horizon?

Well, I can, I think that there's gonna be
still some more fall off

Yeah,

Uh, insurance is a killer right now.

absolutely.

tort reform is necessary and, uh, I hope
that we see more of that,especially up in my region.
Um, these fraudulent planes and,and the nuclear verdicts that
the killer,

is brutal.

and insurance.
It, yeah, it, they need to raisetheir rates because they're
paying out all this money, butit is putting people out of
business and that's a little bitterrifying.
Um, so I, I think we're gonnasee of that.
Uh, unless something changes,

Yeah.

Maybe it's a reform reform come in and, and
we'll see that shift.
Um, but that's real that, I, I.
you said, that mixed fleet beingthe transportation go-to for all
transportation, I think iscoming much faster now than
before.
And I think there was a timewhere there was a wave of that
coming through and then itreceded back where I saw a lot

(53:49):
of limo operators trying themotor coach, um, but they
couldn't quite get theirexpenses in

Yep.

they were pulling it back out.
They couldn't figure out thecompliance part and they were
pulling back out.
Um, I see them wanting to bemore involved now, and I say
them because I'm not them yet,although it's gonna be a them
thing soon, maybe.
I don't know.

Yeah.

but, but they're get, they're coming to
the Motor Coach trade shows nowas well and I'm seeing a lot of
motor coach operators now comingto what is historically the limo
chauffeur type shows.
Um, so we're seeing a lot moreof that crossover.
And I had mentioned to youbefore that now I even have a, a
Spader member, or it's now NCMif

Yeah.

be politically correct.
It's now NCM.
Um, but we have someone whohistorically was a limo operator
now in, um, what was Motor Coachgroup, and then we're seeing in
our Motor Coach group, we haveanother operator that is also a
limo operator.
Um, and, and so

Yep.

a lot more of that and how we're getting
smarter about the growth ofthat.
It's not, oh, you know, yeah, Icould just bring in a bus.
Sure, why not, or, yeah, sure.
I'm just gonna bring in a couple

Yeah.

and we gonna figure that out.
Um.
have nuances, right?
They

Oh, absolutely.

that you need to know.
Uh, when you go into the motorcoach side of things,
understanding your expenses isparamount.
Recognizing that that bus isniche, right?

Yep.

tow it home with any tow operator.
You can't get a repair roadsidewith just anybody.
You, you have to go and buildthose relationships with
specific people that are gonnahelp you get through that.
Not to mention the complianceside is much more cumbersome on
the motor coach side.
There's a lot to the limo side,but when you go to the motor
coach side of it, there's

It's.
It's different.
You know when, when we firstlaunched PAX training back in
2016, it was purely in the blackcar industry.
It was purely for limousineoperators, and we launched it
with one certification and someongoing training.
And then as time kind of movedon, I saw and identified that we
needed to be involved kind of onthe motor coach side, not

(55:53):
because mixed fleet was a hugething, but at that point it was
the limousine operators werestarting to buy and move kind of
towards that side of theindustry and have motor coaches.
And so probably around 20 18, 2019, I had kind of this aha
moment and that aha moment wasthere are things that are going
to carry over to every singletype of operation.

(56:16):
Now in our world, that is thesafety and that's the customer
service.
It doesn't and, and even ifyou're a school bus operator,
right, that changes fromcustomer service to.
Student interaction.
Right.
But if you are in the passground transportation industry,
safety has gotta be paramount.
And we are very firm believersthat the look, there's nothing
you can do right now to fightthat fraud other than go the

(56:39):
legislative route, which isgonna take longer.
We've gotta get tort reform,we've gotta get these things.
That was one of the things I waspushing and every conversation I
had when I was on Capitol Hillwas we need a task force to
investigate insurance.
I get, it's a state issue, butit's a national problem.
The, the other side of thatthough.
Is that you have to havefundamentals of safety and

(57:02):
customer service and then youcan build out, you know, kinda
the way that we structuredthings was you've got your
safety and you've got yourcustomer service, and then
you've got specialized coursesfor the chauffeur side.
Then you've got specializedcourses, courses for the motor
coach side, but it really comesdown kind of like you've already
identified to knowing the nuancebetween them.
Understanding what's uniqueabout those areas, but also

(57:25):
understanding the overlap andhow you can take what you're
already good at to use and helpyou expand and kind of grow.
And so I think in the futurewe're gonna see a lot more
transportation companies andwe're starting to see it.
Right?
Um, so it used to be land right?
Limo Association of New Jersey.
Now they're chauffeurtransportation.

(57:47):
Um, it, and I, and we're seeingthat happen in, in other
companies.
You know, we're seeing companiesthat are dropping, you know, bus
or, you know, tour and they'reputting transportation.
And I think the other side ofthat, and I'd love to get your
thought on this, is that we'realso seeing that lead to
opportunity.
Because if I'm sending a SUV totake the CEO of the company and

(58:07):
they're doing a group move, theycan use my bus side.
You know, if I'm doing groupmoves for them and they say,
Hey, our CEO needs to go to theairport, and I also run that.
I can do that.
So I think.
We're also heading towards aperiod of consolidation as well,
where we're seeing lots ofbuyouts, lots of people coming
out.
What do you see that as beingthat you are one of the people,
right.
We're we're gonna say at thispoint, I think you, it's fair to

(58:28):
say you grew up in the industry,even though started at 16.
I think it's fair to say yougrew up in the industry, but as
one of the younger people in theindustry that still got cor
Yeah, of course.
Um, but you've got, you are notat the point where I see you
immediately exiting.
Right.
I think, I think you're at thepoint where you've taken over
from dad, dad's still involvedin the business.

(58:49):
He has the opportunity to bethere, but you are gonna be one
of the people that helps definethe future of the industry.
You do have career left, you dohave things.
What do you see as thatopportunity?
What do you see as that future?
Do you see that, you know, youdo acquisitions, become a mixed
fleet operator?
Do you think that becomes anorm?
What do you think that lookslike?
Okay.

Uh, well, I'd like to hope that collaboration
becomes a little bit more, um,the limo side was really good at
that whole affiliaterelationship,

It is a key aspect of their world,

right?
Motor coaches we're working on

kind of.
Yeah.

on it.
We're getting there.
Um, I think we're gonna see thatexpand even more.

Yep.

I think we're gonna see a, a lot of that come
together, uh, as far as, youknow.
I don't know what's gonna happenwith legislative stuff.
And I think that a lot of thatmight determine, uh, where we
go.
If tort reform comes into play,I think that's gonna change the
whole scope of, of what

Oh, absolutely.

may be and, and the operators that choose to
come in or not.
Uh, there's also the, the FTArule.
Um, for those that don't know,there's the charter service
rule.
And if you register on the FTAsite, that means that transit
operators in that area forwhatever

James Blaine (01:00:04):
Yeah.

Michele Petilicki (01:00:04):
to sign up for, if a charter were to come
to them, they need to kick itback to you first.

Right.

if you're not signing up, well then they're
not kicking it back to you.
So here's my little, I juststepped on a soapbox for a
second

Go.

service rule.
Look it up.
If you have any questions,please call me.
I wanna get you signed up ifyou're an operator.
Um, okay, now I'll step back

No, no, no.
Stay on that soapbox.
Right?
So for those of you listening,if you go to pax training.com
and you go to resources and yougo to our blog, one of our blog
articles is how to register.
Um, so it actually tells you thesite to go through everything
there.
And then you've got Michelle toback you up.
So I don't know that it gets anybetter than that, by the way.
So we've got instructions, andthen you've got someone that's

(01:00:44):
been there, done that.
And you're also hitting onsomething super crucial here.
And that's I think one of themassive opportunities as we move
towards mixed fleet is to takethe best things of each
industry, the things they've alllearned and bring it across.
I know when I was at the TTAevent, they were talking about
how they're having issues withMicrot transit.

(01:01:04):
Um, and for those of you don'tknow, micro transit is
existentially.
We're gonna have a smallervehicle to try and kind of make
up for the areas of the bus.
Well, instead of sending a bus,we'll send that small vehicle.
That's something that thesmaller vehicle operators, the
NEMT, the taxi operators aremuch better equipped to handle
than having a transit authoritytry to figure out, roll out and

(01:01:25):
do that.
And so when they were talking toa representative come in, I
brought that up, I said, Hey,you know, in the bus space
there's protection.
If there's a charter, they haveto go out and see who is the
private space provider that cando that instead of trying to
ramp up and take that from aprivate provider.
And so it was an aha moment ofhere's something the bus

(01:01:48):
industry has solved.
They already had the answer tothat.
We just need to take somethingsimilar and do it there.
I, I think taking the best ofall those areas is, is probably
one of the easiest ways to getthat.
It, it sounds like, Michelle, itsounds like you are gonna be on
the front line of that fight.
I think, I think it's easy andfair to say that you're gonna be
involved there.

(01:02:09):
What, what is on the horizon forPanorama Tours?
What do you guys see as kind ofyour next big thing, if you
don't mind me asking?

Oh man, I don't know.
So, so it, it's funny, James, Ithought that I was looking at a,
a diversification of fleet

Yeah.

I thought that's where I was going.
Um, and then the opportunity ofDECAMP came in.
I was like, oh, well here's 40%growth in people and money and
this and that, and okay, let'sgo.
Um, so, so that's coming.
First.
I am actively looking foranother property that's bigger,
um, and, and my own, and whoknows, maybe I'll buy a dumpster

(01:02:48):
business.
I dunno.
I dunno.
You know, it's, it's, it's oneof those things that, um, I am.
Always willing to listen.
I'm always out there looking atthe next opportunity and
evaluating the next opportunity.
You know, my kids are gonna beoff to college in the next two
years.
I can't believe a year, year formy son too, for my daughter.

(01:03:10):
And so I'm gonna have all thisextra time on my hands

The business will be more than happy to snap that
up.
Yeah.
The business will easily and bemore than happy to take all of
that free time you have from youif you let it.

So, but, um, I'm just, what we've built, what
my people have helped to buildhere has just, it's just been
incredibly fun to watch.
Um, and I'm constantlylistening.
I'm listening to them.
I'm listening to what they bringback.
I'm listening to my customers,you know, what do they have to
say?
What are they seeing?
Um, I may not be the oneanswering the phones all the

(01:03:46):
time, but when there's anopportunity, yeah, you bet.
I'm taking that phone call andI'm having that conversation and
I'm listening to, oh, well hereare their pain points.

Yeah,

Here's how Panorama can solve those pain
points.
And maybe I don't have thatright this second, I'm gonna
figure that out.
I'm gonna look into what I cando.
Um, I am nervous about thiswhole electric push,

yeah,

of infrastructure for, for motor
coaches specifically.
Now I have a hybrid, a pluginhybrid vehicle personally, that
I use.
Um, and I got that set up andthat was no problem.
But I can't imagine settingsomething like that up for a
fleet of buses here

yeah,

in my region, where we've got blackouts and
brownouts regularly just becausethey can't support what's
happening right now.
Um, and now we're gonna plug inthese massive fleets that are
traveling on average, what, 400miles?

yeah.
Good luck with that.
In Kansas, right, we have thesevast amounts of land to cover
and nowhere to charge it on theway there, right?
So if you can't get from pointto point on a single charge can
tell you right now the Midwest,that's not gonna fly.

I read an article and I don't know how
much truth is to this article,but they're thinking about a
concept of roads.
Being able to recharge thevehicles as they're driving down
them.
Now, it doesn't work if you'restuck in traffic,

Right.

to New Jersey, but, but if you're
actually driving, I, and again,I don't know how much truth or
how much theory is to thisparticular, um, article that I
read, but that would be aninteresting concept that while
I'm out there, I'm

It just, yeah, I think, I think there's a lot of
future.
I think there's a lot of thingsthere that it comes down to,
kind of like we talked aboutbefore, you've gotta make sure
that the legislators understandyour business.
If you get to the point wherethey're saying, Hey, I, I read
something about electric buses.
I wanted to reach out and seewhat your thoughts are on it.
Look, is that gonna happen everysingle time?

(01:05:36):
No.
But when that stuff comes up, ifyou're able to put your input
there, it's gonna make a hugedeal.
Going back to what I mentionedearlier in the podcast, right?
We're pushing for electricbuses, but the lights in front
of the capitol are humming ondiesel, right?
So I, I think there's a lot ofthings there.
I think there's a lot of future.
I think we're definitely gonnahave to have you back onto the

(01:05:57):
podcast and do another episode,because I, I don't know about
you.
I think we could easily do a, aentire episode on the
electrification there.
Um,

hope I, uh, I said something that was useful
for somebody out therelistening.

I, I would say, I think there's a lot of takeaways
here.
Um, I'd again thank you forcoming on.
Is there any last thoughts, anylast things you wanna leave them
with?
If they're listening?

Get involved.
involved.
You, you have something to say.
Every single person out therehas something to say, and every
tidbit that gets dropped in thebucket becomes bigger and
better.
And from that, we grow.
And from that we learn.
And, and without that we're not.
If we stand still, we will fail.

Yeah,

get involved, continue to learn and teach and
put it out there.

everybody.
Michelle from Panorama Amateurs.
I cannot thank you enough forcoming on the podcast for, for
being your first podcast.
I gotta say, you absolutelynailed it.
You've knocked outta the park.
Um, we are gonna drop some ofthose links in the descriptions.
We're gonna make sureeverybody's got what they need.
So we'll have that link thatwe've talked about some of the
other things there.
Um, if you are not already,please like, subscribe, drop us

(01:07:04):
a comment, let us know what youthink, what you'd like to hear.
And thank you everybody forlistening.
We'll see you guys on the nextone.

Thank you so much.
It was a pleasure.

Oh, the pleasure is all mine.
Thanks Michelle.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to

(01:07:34):
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Crime Junkie

Ridiculous History

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Charting a New Course: Exploring the Future of Motorcoach with Michelle Petelicki

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Crime Junkie

Ridiculous History

All Episodes

Charting a New Course: Exploring the Future of Motorcoach with Michelle Petelicki

On Purpose with Jay Shetty