Road Warriors Return: A Recap of CD/NLA in Vegas and UMA Motorcoach EXPO in OKC

Episode Transcript
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Ken Lucci (00:25):
Good afternoon and welcome to another exciting
episode of the GroundTransportation Podcast.
Um, we, James and I, are justreally crispy road warriors.
We've been on the road for, uh,when did you leave your house to
go to the UMA?

James Blain (00:43):
I left on a Friday.
I got back on a Wednesday andtwo weeks before that I was in
Philly and I was there for Ithink seven or eight days.
It's it's been a track.

Ken Lucci (00:52):
So I left, uh, I left for the Chauffeur Driven NLA
show last Thursday.
Uh, met Last Thursday, I metwith my first prospective seller
Thursday night.
Uh, and then I met with threelocal, uh, companies, uh, on

(01:13):
Friday, uh, that were actuallytwo were local one was in early
that were potential sellers.
And so today is Friday and I,I'll, I guess I'll sleep in my.
My own bed tonight.
Um, so before we get to thechauffeur driven NLA show, you
went to the UMA United MotorCoach Association conference,

(01:37):
which was in Oklahoma.
Okay.

City this

Ken Lucci (01:41):
Listen, give us, give us your sentiments.
Give us a read on thatconference, some of the
highlights, the sentiments frombus operators from 24 and how
they feel about 25.

So, so I'm going to pull it back a little bit
further because a couple weeksbefore that I was at the
American Bus Association andInternational Motor Coach

Ken Lucci (02:03):
That was Philly.

And that was Philly.
Yeah.
So that was eight days inPhilly.
Then we, uh, being a Kansas citynative, we, uh, we had to kind
of give Philly the, uh, respecton, uh, absolutely trouncing the
chiefs and then, uh, turn aroundand go right back out.
Yeah.
What a game, what a game.
It

Ken Lucci (02:20):
So that was kind of like, uh, that was kind of like
a sentence for you.
Eight days in Philadelphia, thatwas kind of a sentence.
It wasn't really a trip.
It was a sentence.

and for those of us, you know, for those of us
that do a lot of shows, forthose of us that work in both
sides, the motor coach and thelimo, we just kind of get it.
Um, there's a lot of peoplecoming over now, but for those
that haven't been to either orshow, um, it's really kind of
for us an interesting set ofshows this time of year because

(02:49):
ABA.
is really designed to take tourdestinations and connect them
with tour operators.
So you have Broadway's got abooth.
Um, Branson's got a booth, NewJersey, you've got States,
you've got cities, you've gotall these different places that
are trying to entice theoperator to send a tour bus

Ken Lucci (03:08):
To set up tours, to curate, to curate bespoke tours.
So, you know, Pennsylvania Amishcountry might've had a booth and
this is why you need to visitwith us.
Really?
That's interesting.
So it's actually a marketplace.

It is.
And ironically enough, you'venailed it.
It's actually called ABAmarketplace.
But the other thing that'sunique is ABA has the bus
industry safety council.
I'm lucky enough to call a lotof the board members friends and
to sit on their executive boardmyself.
So what we do with the busindustry.
Industry Safety Council is whilethey're doing education set

(03:45):
sessions, you've got a couple ofdifferent tracks and there it's
really focused on safety.
It's focused on driverqualification files.
It's focused on working withFMCSA.
It's working, you know, all ofthe things that are purely
safety.
So even though you'reconnecting.
Tour destinations with touroperators, you've also got this
pure safety track running.

(04:06):
And then as if we haven't hadenough going on, you have
Trailways and IMG, which arelarge networks, and they switch
back and forth.
So they switch between UMA Expoand they switch between ABA's
marketplace.
So this year, IMG was at Philly.
So we have this kind of showwithin a show that is the

(04:27):
exclusive group of IMG and thoseoperators who are really kind of
the top of that industry.
Those are the operators that aregoing above and beyond.

Ken Lucci (04:35):
That's interma, IMG international.

Motor coach group.

Ken Lucci (04:39):
And this private group, it's a private group of
operators.
I think the best and thebrightest of the motor coach
industry.
Okay.

Yeah.
And we're so we're, we're luckyenough to have worked with one
of the larger companies inthere.
So we were invited in recently.
Um, we've been absolutelyblessed to get to see what that
group's doing and help do it.
And for us, it's perfect becausethat group's whole goal.
is to be the best of the best.
And when you're a company likeus, that all we focus on is
safety and customer service anddriving those up to the top

(05:10):
level, it really kind of linesup perfectly with our core
values.
So to kind of bring it around,you've got that show, you've got
ABA marketplace, you know, we'vegot IMG going on.
We come back, we get a littlereprieve, we turn around, we go
back, right.
You know, UMA expo.
So we're going down, obviously.
That's not too bad for us.
It's only a four hour drive fromKansas City down to Oklahoma

(05:32):
City.
But there's a couple ofrecurring themes that have kind
of come up there.
The first, I don't care whatside of the industry you're on.
I don't care what kind of pastortransportation you do.
You're absolutely going torelate.
And that's insurance

Ken Lucci (05:45):
Mm hmm.
Oh, God.
It's a common thread, right?

It's dominating the landscape.
It's dominating the conversationand it is the number one issue.
And one of the interestingthings is I was in a session at
UMA.
And one of the things theytalked about is that you can
actually get a 15 percentincrease in your rate before
they have to actually basicallysend you a cancellation type

(06:08):
notice and say, Hey, we're doingmore than 15%.
And in that room, what I washearing is 8%, 10%, right?
Just under that is what peoplewere saying their increase was.
And one of the biggest issues,and someone brought it up in the
room, is that it doesn't matterwho's at fault.
We had an operator in the room,raised his hand, had a question.

(06:31):
Hey, I had a bus.
Someone came out of nowhere.
They basically cut the buscompletely off.
There was no way it couldpossibly stop.
We ended up hitting thatvehicle.
All the lawsuits inside of thatbus.

Ken Lucci (06:43):
Oh, Jesus.

They're against him, right?
All of, all of the repercussionsof that are against him.
And I can tell you right now,don't get me wrong.
I am all about making sureyou've got your bubble, making
sure you're keeping your safespace.
But one of the things that thatbrought up is we are starting to
get to a point because of theaggressive nature of the

(07:05):
insurance landscape, where we'rehearing more and more about
fraud scams, and it's very toughto guard against someone who's
willing to cut three lanes oftraffic to essentially crash
into the front of

Ken Lucci (07:17):
But stop, stop there for a second.
So what, so every one of us hasseen on YouTube the, the
consumer vehicle or the SUV, andthen a small vehicle gets in
front of them and slams on theirbrakes.
And there's just that, thatperson who's driving.
the car that gets hit is luckyenough to have a dash cam.

(07:38):
You know, at the end of the day,it's a suicide mission to me.
If you are in the livery spaceor the motor coach space, if you
don't have the maximum teletelematics available, Outside
cameras in the front, outsidecameras in the back, cameras on
the side, cameras inside.
I mean, I'm sorry.
It is legitimately, there's noway to do business without it.

(08:03):
If you, if you can't afford it,it means your prices are too low
because to me, that's an extralevel of, of insurance, right?
And that's evidence that worksfor you or against you.
Um, as Matt Dawes likes to say,if you don't have telematics,
the plaintiff's lawyer is goingto ask you why.
And if you do, and if you dohave it and you've not changed

(08:26):
behavior and you've not, Godforbid, if the driver was at
fault, if you're not using it tomanage your business, you're in
deep trouble.

Absolutely.
And it's interesting becausethat kind of dovetails me into
to bring us a little bit tochauffeur driven because one of
the things that we did see onthe motor coach side is there
was a little bit more focus ontraining, a little bit more
focus on proactive.
One of the things I talk aboutall the time is you've got your
proactive realm.
And you've got your reactiverow.

(08:54):
Now I've got to be protected inan accident and I have to have
camera footage.
I have to have telematics.
I have to have everything there.
That's my react.
That's the footage of theaccident taking place.
But the other side of that, andthis is something that the bus
industry safety council did amock trial on and what's
something they actually focusedon in there.

(09:14):
Is if you don't have theproactive, the problem becomes
that plaintiff's attorney.
If you don't have training, ifyou're not actively training
your team, how to avoid theaccident, two things, one,
you're going to have moreaccidents than you should.
You're going to have a higherloss rate than you should
because they are going to playlike they train.
You practice like you play.

(09:36):
If you don't have that proactivetraining in place to teach them
what to look for to take evasiveaction to build that safe space
around the vehicle, you're athigher risk.
The other side of that, though,is even if you have the
telematics and you have thewhole accident covered, you have
the footage, you have the video.
As soon as you get to court.
The plaintiff's attorney isgoing to go, well, great.

(09:57):
What did you do to prevent thisaccident?
What were you doing to make sureour passengers were safe?

Ken Lucci (10:01):
this.
It's a double edged sword,right?
That's that telematics can cutfor you or against you.
Okay.
So in this, it kind of, it kindof bothers me that there are
operators, not necessarily thebus guys.
I see the bus guys light yearsahead on safety.
I mean, do you agree?

It's I think, and I've had this conversation.
It came up at chauffeur driven.
It's it's because of where youstart.
And I'm sure you see the samething in the financials in our
world.
If I want to start a black carcompany, I can go out, I can go
buy an SUV from GM.
And I can do some licensing andI'm in business.
If I want to start James's buscompany, I've got to drop 650,

(10:44):
000.
I've got to get audited.

Ken Lucci (10:47):
Yeah, total, yeah, total barrier to entry.

yeah.
So, so you're starting from apoint of heavy regulation, heavy
safety, higher stakes versus apoint of lower regulation, lower
stakes, and it kind of moldsthose operators, but we're
seeing a lot of crossover.
We had a lot of customers on theblack car side.
That we saw at UMA.
We have a lot of people that wesaw at UMA that are purely motor

(11:11):
coach operators that came to seethe NLA for the first time, that
line is starting to blur alittle bit, and you're starting
to see that age of the mixedfleet.

Ken Lucci (11:20):
Yeah, and I, I would argue that you're starting to
see a coalescence between thetwo industries for a variety of
reasons.
One, I believe that thetraditional bus guys are
retiring out.
There's a lot of very successfulbus guys that I know that
they're, that are above the ageof retirement.
And they've done well, they'vebought their fleet, they've run

(11:44):
their fleet, and they own theirfleet, and they own the property
that they're in, and they'vedecided, I'm going to either
sell or I'm going to wind down.
So there's a coalescencehappening between the two
industries.
The second thing that I see thatthe chauffeur industry has done
is the chauffeur industry hasraised the bar on service.
Okay.
Well, let's face it just bybeing open 24 hours and seven

(12:06):
days a week, because we don'tknow any better on the chauffeur
side.
That's what we do, right?
Now we're offering where buscompanies typically, you know,
have a record.
Some of them have a recorder onit after five o'clock in the
afternoon.
Um, now, now we're providing 24hour service, both, uh,
reservations and logisticsbackup.

(12:28):
So talk to me about, talk to meabout the sentiment of, The
show, the UMA show, how dopeople, you know, we, when was
the last time you, I mean, yousaw some of them at the ABA, but
when was the last time you saw alot of these guys and how did
they say they finished up in 24?
And how, what was the mood ofthe show?

(12:48):
If you could take a mood,

The mood was pretty good.
So we were in, uh, we were inRaleigh.
For the last show.
And I think we are still in aperiod of upward trajectory.
A lot of these guys are buyingvehicles.
We're seeing a lot of growth.
We're seeing a lot of greatthings happening.
I think the interesting thingthat we're seeing, and this ties
directly into us talking aboutthe two is that they are

(13:12):
becoming more receptive tofiguring out what we're doing.
And I think that.
You know, and I say we're doing,I happen to live on both sides
of the fence.
So it's interesting.
I switched sides, but the blackcar side of the industry wants
to come to UMA to understand thelogistical, the management and
the safety side of how they'remanaging that many buses, how
they're running their fleet, howthey're operating.

(13:34):
The motor coach people that Isee that are coming to our
industry are trying tounderstand a couple of things.
Um, they're on the black carside.
They're trying to understand theopportunity for sprinters.
They're trying to understand theopportunity for controlling the
entire transportation experiencewith that company.

Ken Lucci (13:50):
wait a minute, back up, back up, back up.
Are you saying the motor coachcompanies are coming to show for
driven to dip down and now buyfleets, buy vehicles that are
smaller.

we are, I have seen, so.
In this show, you know, we'veseen motor coach companies come
to the CDNLA show, but at thisshow, I had a customer that was
there looking for the smallervehicles because they are now in
that space.
Um, I had someone else that I'veknown for basically as long as
I've been on the motor coachside that was there looking to

(14:23):
understand and learn more.
About how things are working inthe black car space and the
opportunity and what they'redoing in service levels.
But one of the things that isreally becoming key is
controlling the entire passengerexperience for a large client
because what we've and it cameup, you know, we had Maurice on

(14:44):
a Maurice talked about.
You know, I had my applecontract.
I had little vehicles, a littlevehicles turned into large
vehicles because they knew theycould trust me.
They knew they had arelationship.
We're seeing the same thinghappen now in reverse.

Ken Lucci (14:58):
But I'm surprised at that because I'm very, I, I'm, I
see the same thing.
I don't go over to the, I'm noton the motor coach side as much
as you are.
I mean, we've got some hugevaluations coming up, but we've
not, we're members where wehaven't gone to the UMA.
And I, but I noticed two orthree companies that we
facilitated or assisted with thesale on, they were motor coach

(15:20):
companies.
And.
But they also went down to minisand vans.
I've not seen any yet that havegone dip down to providing
chauffeured car.
Um, I know there was one inRichmond that sold right.
That was motor coach all the waydown, uh, into chauffeured, but
that's rare.
Do you think you're going to seemore motor coach operators

(15:42):
trying to do the diversifiedfleet role, including
chauffeured

I think it's going to be more, it's not going to be
chauffeured the way we thinkabout it.
So for example, um, I've got acustomer that They stepped into
that world because of insurancelimits and being able to have
the insurance carry that thecustomers there wanted and what
they're doing.
But I also see, you know,Maurice talked about stepping

(16:09):
from employee shut up Murrayfrom eggs.
Absolutely.
Maurice from Mosaic, which bythe way, um, big shout out and
congratulations to Marisa Wanda.
Um, they actually won an awardat UMA.
For what they're doing withbeing forward thinking on, uh,
essentially the way they'retaking care of the environment.
And like he talked about, he sawwhere Apple was going.
He went there, he actually wonan award that makes a lot of

(16:32):
sense off the, off the back ofthat

Ken Lucci (16:34):
Love to hear that.

the big thing that we're seeing is I see it more
taking place.
With larger corporate clients, Isee it more taking place where
maybe I'm sending a motor coachout for an employee shuttle and
they need something smaller andI don't have something smaller
in my fleet.
So I go and I grab that and Istart doing it because what
we're finding is.

(16:56):
There is that want and need tohandle all of the pasture ground
transportation in one company.

Ken Lucci (17:02):
It's smart.

It, it, it makes everyone's life easier.
And it's been for a very longtime.
It's been the entry point forthe black car guy, because I go
get the contract for Apple,right?
And we'll walk through MauriceBrewster story, right?
I go get the contract for Applefor the smaller vehicles.
I take great care of them there.
I get slightly larger vehicles.
I get slightly larger vehicles.

(17:24):
You reach a point where theysay, Hey, we have this partner.
We know, like, and trust.
And those are the keys.
Know, like, and trust.
And they're providing a level ofservice that's higher than
everybody else.
Why wouldn't I want them to justtake the whole thing and take
care of it

Ken Lucci (17:38):
No, and you listen, you're speaking about something
that is critical.
Um, is diverse, diversifiedfleets, diversified clients, but
more importantly, uh, we talkedabout this on the side.
My, my biggest fear for thechauffeured industry and our

(17:58):
role of providing corporate, uh,ground transportation for the
corporate space.
is some operators have taken astep back on from SUVs and
sedans.
They have basically said, Oh,there's too much competition
there.
I'm going to focus solely onlarge vehicles to your point.

(18:21):
Number one, you have motor coachcompanies that are doing the
opposite.
Now they're, they're coming downinto the space.
Whereas we, the chauffeuredspace started going up into
motor coaches pre pandemic.
I will tell you to a company outof the 270 companies that we
have reviewed.

(18:41):
Anytime we see a company thatrelegates the sedan and SUV to
someone else in, but they wantto only pick and choose what
they do in the corporate space.
Their revenue goes down.
They lose the corporate marketfor the reasons you're talking
about.
He who controls the relationshipcontrols the revenue.

100%.

Ken Lucci (19:06):
So if, if like Maurice, I mean, look, there
were so many things about thatpodcast that were fantastic, by
the way, guys, go, go and lookup the, uh, it already dropped,
right?
The mosaic.
Yeah.
The mosaic dropped.
So go.

a blueprint, right?
I mean, Maurice lays out ablueprint.

Ken Lucci (19:24):
lays out a blueprint.
You're talking about a guy thatstarted in Rolls Royces and talk
about a niche.
And now he's one of the biggest,I would say boutique global
networks in the country.
Right.
And it's because, because whenhe captured the customer and
they wanted him to providebigger and bigger vehicles, he
literally, he just acquiescedand went all the way up to motor

(19:46):
coach.
Um, no question about it.
All right.
So give me the overall sentimentof the U.
M.
A.
As far as how do people feelabout how do they feel about
ending in 24?
How do they do?
And then how do they feel about25?

I, I think the sentiment there was really
great.
Um, I think one of the, a littlebit of a, uh, a killjoy, but I
think you've really kind ofidentified a couple of their
pain points at the moment.
Um, we've had an abnormal amountof natural disasters.
And so there was a lot of impactthere.
That was one of the sessionsthat IMG did a couple weeks

(20:22):
prior was talking aboutoperators that have been hit by
natural disasters from shopsgetting flooded out and barely
being able to afford the waterand save your buses all the way
to tornadoes.
I mean, you name it.
They kind of covered that.
And we saw that as kind of animpact.
However, there's evacuation workfor that.
There's things that happen thereas well.
And I think the overallsentiment Is that the industry

(20:46):
is really growing.
The industry is doing great.
Everyone's kind of still on thathigh and we expect that to
continue through in the comingyears.
And I think the big thing rightnow, if you are one of the
companies that is poised forgrowth.
It's really locking that inbecause regardless of the
industry, what we're seeing isthe larger companies are

(21:07):
expanding what they have.
They're expanding the workthey're doing and they're
growing, but the little tinycompanies that were relying on
that work to come from someoneelse are now getting squeezed
because of the fact that if I'mthat larger company, I like
being able to farm to you.
But if I can grow my fleet, if Ican grow my driver pool, I can

(21:29):
then.
Take that in house

Ken Lucci (21:31):
You know that really what you're saying?
Uh, absolutely.
Uh, dovetails or parallelsdirectly with what we saw on the
financial state of the industryreport that we finished 2024.
The smaller companies are the 1on the chauffeur side.
Other ones that suffered alittle bit.
Those are the ones that maybewere 10 percent or more back the

(21:55):
medium to larger companies thatwere taking advantage of both
vertical growth and You know,expanding new clients, but
horizontal growth by offeringexisting clients, more services,
the medium to large have theability to do that more than the
small.
Okay.
So let's shift some gears.
It sounds like the bus and Iagree the motor coach side of

(22:18):
the business is doing well.
Um, you know, there's a lot ofmarket share available, both new
growth.
I mean, they grow at aboutthree, 3 percent compounded
annual growth rate a year, whichisn't great, but.
Touring is back, sightseeingtouring is back, charters, line
runs, that's all back.
And the other piece of thepuzzle is market share is going

(22:39):
to become available on the codespace because a lot of bus
companies are either retiringand closing or they're selling.
So that's a good, you know,that's, that's, that's market
share churn, if you will.
So now you race into Las Vegasand, um,

literally, quite literally.

Ken Lucci (22:58):
and, um, how, how, what was your sentiments?
What was your takeaway from thechauffeured driven national
limousine association show?

So, so for us, I kind of, I have my blinders on
for the first day.
You know, we close down the showfloor at UMA at noon.
We're off to the airport flyingthrough Austin.
I get there at six 30 in theevening.
I set that booth back up andthat same booth, all of us, we
do two shows a one day.
Um, so I, I didn't get as manyof the Sunday sessions I would

(23:27):
have liked, but I think a lot ofthe things have carried through.
Um, Tim Delaney, Matt Doss, um,they, they took up a lot of that
insurance presentation.
They had their own slides.
They had their own deck.
Um, you know, researchunderwriters had their COO
there, uh, but by the time theygot to him, he didn't really
have a huge chance to go in.
So Matt and Tim were able tokind of take the front of that.

(23:49):
And I think one of the thingsthat I've seen is in our
industry, speaking to the blackcar guys, right?
It is a reactive industry andthat doesn't appear to have
changed.
Most of the conversation herewas about telematics.
It was about cameras.
It was

Ken Lucci (24:07):
So, so back, back up a step and set the stage.
Tim Delaney is the president ofthe largest Lancer insurance,
one of the largest carriers inthe industry.
Um, if not the largest, um,Andrew Dawn is the, is the COO
of research underwriters.
Uh, one of the largest agents inthe space and, and our friend

(24:31):
Matt Dawes, who we did a podcastwith him, guys go back and look
at that podcast.
It was, it was great.
And we were going to have Matton again, but Matt Dawes is the
preeminent legal mind and thelargest transportation practice.
In the country.
So the session at chauffeurdriven was about insurance.

It was, and really it was talking about what that
landscape looks like, what someof the key root causes are.
And, and look at you, you cantake this from different angles.
So depending on who you talk toin our industry, you're going to
get a different story.
Um, you know, I've heard, I'veheard everything.
I'm lucky enough that PAXTraining and Lancer are official

(25:16):
partners.
We work together.
Um, I'm very lucky in that I'vegot to spend personal time with
Tim getting to understand whatthey're seeing and dealing with.
We talk to their safetydepartment on a regular basis.
And really there's, there's somekey things and Tim did a good
job of pointing those out.
The first is, guys, there's nota lot of people in this space.

(25:37):
It doesn't matter if you're onthe motor coach side, the black
car side, any empty passengerground transportation.
We just don't have a lot ofcarriers.

Ken Lucci (25:46):
because it let's face it from a, from a financial
perspective last year for everydollar that they took in for
policies, they, they spent adollar 18, right?
So, so stop saying that the, theinsurance companies are getting
rich off this industry.
They're not.
That's why people are leavingit.
That's why people are leavingthe states that have no tort

(26:08):
laws, right, like New York, likeNew York, uh, like Michigan, you
know, the, they go in a certainpolitical direction, and the
lawyers are, they have thesenuclear verdicts.
So, his point is There's only afew carriers in the space to
begin with.
What else did they go?
What else did you get out ofthat session?

So I think for me, a lot of that was really, really
revealing of what I've alreadymentioned before.
We're a reactive industry.
We're not a proactive industry.
I've built my entire 10 years inthis industry, helping make
companies proactive, helping,trying to get them trained to
get drivers to be ahead of thecurve, to try and get to the

(26:52):
point where we're preventingaccidents.
It's accident never happened.
And it really was tellingbecause a lot of that session
was spent talking.
About telematics, about safetyprogram, about safety culture.
Now, I, I'm in the trainingspace.
If it was up to me, the verynext session would've been
training and that, that for mewas a little heartbreaking.

(27:13):
This I want to give a lot ofcredit where credit is due.
Um, Lacey, who came from EOS,uh, Mike Sapone, who is a, a
longtime customer of pacs and,and an absolute incredible
business mind.
Uh.
I think for me personally, themost value for me outside of
spending time with my customers,working with them, but just me

(27:33):
taking things back actually camefrom the EOS session that they
did.
Anybody that did not attend theEOS session really missed

Ken Lucci (27:41):
So that was Wednesday's only workshop.
That was Wednesday's onlyworkshop.
Um, and it was, uh, just give usa finish up with the insurance
piece

Yeah.
So, so we'll, we'll come back tothat one.
So, so on the insurance side,Really, the, the big key
takeaways right now tie back towhat I was saying with the bus
industry, and that's that anyclaim whatsoever, regardless of
how small, regardless of what itis, has the essential ability to

(28:14):
mushroom cloud.
And so the problem right now,and you already touched on it is
tort reform is there in somestates, but it's not in most, we
don't expect it to come quicklyand you have to be proactive.
The other big thing, and thisisn't something that, that Tim
touched on for more than amonth, but the other big thing

(28:34):
that everybody has to realize iswhat Mike Marcoli brought up in
his episode as a broker, himtalking about the space and
talking about things.
You, you can't take the mindsetthat the insurance company is my
enemy.
You can't take the mindset thatthey're just trying to make a
profit off me.
If you want to have that in theback of your mind, that's fine.
But you have to actively beworking with them because they

(28:58):
know where the claims are goingto happen.
They know what's going to gowrong.
That's why we try to work asclosely as we can with them.
Because if we know the top fivethings that are causing
accidents, the goal here is toplay chess, not checkers.
You need to be actively doingeverything you can to hedge
against those, not just havevideo of it.
Once it happens.

Ken Lucci (29:18):
What are those five?

Oh boy, put me on the spot.
So it really is going to dependon market.
It's going to depend on vehicletype.
It's going to depend on what youhave.
Um, this isn't something thatwas covered in the session, so
don't feel like you're missinganything, but the most common
ones that we hear following tooclosely,

Ken Lucci (29:38):
Yeah, I had that.
Yes.

time, big time, following too closely is a big
one.
Failure to leave space aroundthe vehicle or be aware around
the vehicle.

Ken Lucci (29:48):
All sides, all sides.
You're 12, you're 3, you're 6,and you're 9.
Yep.

We call that 360 driving in our world.
You've got a 360 degrees aroundthe vehicle.
Absolutely everything.
Um, I would say that one of thebigger things that I'm seeing
and again, Lancer, someone likethat, that's got the data is
going to be able to give you amuch more better ordered list.
But one of the other big onesthat we're seeing is the scams
are making their way up theranks.

(30:14):
Um, Well, especially if you're,if you're dealing with vehicles
or you're dealing with areaswhere they can easily identify
and spot an opportunity, man,I've heard stories.
And I might've already told thisone in the podcast where someone
runs up, they basically throwthemselves on the hood of the
car.
They say, yeah, hit me.
Well, now you're in a situationwhere they've got an

(30:36):
opportunity.
They're going to try and drillit through.
They're going to move it fromattorney to attorney.

Ken Lucci (30:40):
No question.
You know, I, I, I think weshould, we should, in the
future, we should have Tim ondirectly.
Um, and one of the safety guys,I mean, what you're telling me
from a messaging perspective isthese, even if they're one or
two car operators, first of all,if you're a one car operator and
you drive one way when yourclient is in the car, and then

(31:02):
you drive another way whenyou're racing, this is, this
happened to me last night andthe vehicle, the guy was okay
driving me.
And then I watched him just boltout of the parking lot, probably
to his next, next ride.
And, and he cut off somebody, hecut off somebody who is, he was
leaving anyway.

(31:23):
So proactivity versus reactivityto the message, you know, the
message I think from, from thesessions, because it keeps
coming up, they keep havinginsurance session is you need to
build a that you are a lowersafety risk because You have a

(31:43):
defined safety program.
You are a customer of PACS.
You are examining yourtelematics and you're changing
bad behavior.
Yeah, we should have Tim on to,to go through it.
So, so give me an idea of howyou felt.
What was the overall sentimentof the operators you talked to
about 24?

(32:04):
And what do you, what's thesentiment you thought about 25
and then we'll talk aboutvehicles?

So, so I think there's a little mixed bag and
I'd love to get your opinion onthe financial side.
Um, a lot of people, theJanuary, February beginning of
year, slow down.
One of two things I heard iteither didn't slow down as much
or we're coming out of itearlier.
So I think the overall sentimentis the business is going up.
Um, again, one of the bigthings, if you're a little tiny,

(32:33):
smaller operator, you're notgetting that work being sent to
you like you were before.

Ken Lucci (32:38):
they're going to keep it in house.

they're going to keep it in house.

Ken Lucci (32:40):
You're the last one to, you're the last, you're
actually, you're actually thefirst one to know, aren't you?
Because they're keeping it inhouse rather than sending it.
Yeah.

So, so we saw a lot of that coming through.
I think the other thing is Ithink we're reaching a point
where we've, we've kind ofrealized that insurance is going
to continue to go up.
I'm going to, I'm going topreface this with, There are no
insurance discounts at thispoint.
I'd love to tell you I have amagic wand that you're not going
to get an

Ken Lucci (33:07):
None.
It's a permanent hard market.
It's a permanent, it's apermanent hard market and they
won't say it as bluntly as that,but it is.
It's a permanent hard market.
You've got a budget for at leasta 10 percent increase.
And, and if you don't do yourpart literally by creating that
safety culture, okay, you'regoing to get nailed.

(33:28):
It's as simple as that.
So let's talk about thesentiment of the show.
Let's talk about.
The people that you met on thefloor, how was their attitude?

I think the attitude was great.
You know, I, I can tell you bigshout out to everyone that came
to see us.
Um, you know, I, I don't knowthat I've ever had that many
people coming to see us.
I think part of that is thepodcast.
I'm, I'm glad to say it soundslike everybody's enjoying it.
I think the other side of thatthough is I think the show floor
continues to grow year afteryear.
I think the show continues togrow year after year.

(34:01):
Um, I think the other thing andI'm gonna again, we're gonna
take a little tangent.
I had tons of people thatactually took me up on my selfie
challenge,

Ken Lucci (34:11):
Yeah.
So did I, so did I.

but I will say, guys, you got to tag us.
You know, you got the selfie.
You've got it in your phone.
You got to tag us.
I would love to announce thewinner today that we had, right?
We were hoping to do thatjointly.
But we've, we've got all theseselfies out in the wild that I
don't know where they've endedup.
Um, so post those,

Ken Lucci (34:29):
What is tagging the selfie?
What is the process of taggingthe selfie?

So there's a couple different ways that you can do
it.

Ken Lucci (34:37):
Tell us technology

yes,

Ken Lucci (34:40):
Tell us Mr.
Wizard.

the easiest way to do it is to make a post on
Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram,Twitter, um, now X, whatever
your favorite social media is,and then just put the symbol and
put ground transportationpodcast.
That's it.
And then you just post

Ken Lucci (34:58):
whoa, whoa, whoa.
You're telling me, you'retelling me this whole thing
about tagging.
This is a revelation to mebecause it's not, it's not on a
P and L or a balance sheet.
You're telling me that I canpost a picture.
And then I can say the at symbolground transportation podcast.

And, and you can, you can tag individuals that
way.
So the at symbol, you can putJames, you can put Ken, you can
put whoever you want and tag itthat simple.
Um, and then from that point,it's really easy.
You, you've done it.
You've tagged it.
Then you can even go into theindividual photo and you can
actually tag people within thephotos.
So if you click on the photo,there's a little, it looks like
a price tag up in the corner.

(35:38):
Right.
You click that tag and then youcan click on the photo and tag
people within the photo.
Um, almost every platform'sabout the same.
They all support kind of the atsymbol.
We are really, really easybecause we have at ground
transportation podcast onbasically every platform.
So

Ken Lucci (35:57):
So, um, I was at the, I was invited to the NLA
president's dinner

What a

Ken Lucci (36:02):
it was great.
I have to tell you that Eddie,Eddie McCoy from fast track, the
software company, um.
His wife, Lisa, got tied up,which is code to say that she
was with her friends and didn'twant to go, so Eddie took me as
his, as his date, so to speak.
I was his plus one, and poorguy's right.

(36:23):
And, and so, um, who shows up,but because it was the
president's dinner, the NLApresident's dinner, is anybody
who's been on the board ofdirectors at the National
Limousine Association gets aninvitation.
Okay.
So, uh, the current president,Brett Barinholtz, first of all,

(36:43):
he did a great job at the wholeshow.
It was great.
Terrific.
Uh, obviously he was a guest onthe podcast guys.
If go look at the, look at BrettBarinholtz from taxidermy.
Great

What a great

Ken Lucci (36:56):
So he was on fire that night.
He did a great job.
And, but who shows up at thepresident's, uh, meet a dinner,
but.
Dawson Rutter and Tammy Rutterfrom Commonwealth

who were just recently guests.

Ken Lucci (37:10):
Dawson.
They dropped two days before theepisode that episode that Tammy
and Dawson were on dropped twodays before and Dawson comes in
and he stops me and he said, Youknow, everybody's walking up to
me saying great job on thepodcast.
And I'm like, I don't, and thatwas a good Dawson impression.

(37:31):
But anyway, and, and, and Tammy,the same way.
And, and, you know, I've beenmeaning to dissect that I've
been meaning to dissect thatepisode because they dropped
some unbelievable.
there.
Okay.
About treat our customers thatas if they're yours, we treat
you like family.
We, and it was great.

(37:51):
But anyway, it was, it wasterrific to see them, but I will
tell you the same thing.
I had a lot of people comment onthe podcast, um, to the point
between that and the fact thatwe have a lot of things going
on.
Um, I took my badge off when Iwas walking through the hallway.
at the conference center becauseracing between meetings, we, I

(38:12):
don't know about you, but I wasgetting stopped.
Um, so, you know, I think wehave to think about this.
I think, I think next year, Ithink we have to set aside
something where we do a meet andgreet.

NLA board members.
We're talking to you.
We would love to have a grandtransportation podcast.
No, I think there, I would loveto have an

Ken Lucci (38:33):
Why do I think my credit card is going to have to
come out for that?
But that's okay.
I'm, I'm willing to do it.

we'll split the bill on that one for

Ken Lucci (38:40):
so a few, a few things happened to me at the
show.
Um, number one, um, people cameup to us, uh, both of us
obviously and said, Hey,congratulations on the podcast.
I left, listen to it.
Other people said, hadsuggestions about subject
matter.
Okay.

Oh, there was also a suggestion about my hair.
My hairline appears to bereceding.

Ken Lucci (39:04):
are we going to go into that?
Is that what we're going to doon a Friday?
You want to talk about recedinghairlines and you

I couldn't help

Ken Lucci (39:11):
anyway.
Um, you know, and especially andI forgot my special shampoo for
10 days.
So, so I'm lucky.
I have any hair left anyway.
So I think that a couple of acouple of upcoming sessions.
I want to tease.
Is we're going to have a day inthe life of week in the life of
an affiliate manager And we'regoing to have an affiliate
manager on from a couple ofserious companies And and one of

(39:34):
them is going to be paul fromlegends in new york paul from
legends limousine He's the onewho suggested it and and then
i'm going to try to get a coupleof others on there the second
thing i'll tell you, um isthat's coming up is we We are
gonna have a podcast with theROS ladies.
Okay.
Let me tell you, if you don'tknow who the ROS ladies are from

(39:57):
the,

Set the stage for them.

Ken Lucci (39:59):
out, out in the podcast.
Well, first and foremost, theROS ladies.
I met the ROS ladies becauselast year, uh.
At last year's show, I, we werejust coming off selling Leros, a
company called Red Oak, very bigoperator.
And that particular deal wasdifficult, but it, it, you know,

(40:19):
the guys who Leros always beatthe crap out of me, but, but
they invited me to dinner andthey show me some love by
surrounding me with the bevy ofwomen.
That they called the Lerosladies.
So the, I met the Leros ladiesand really came to appreciate
the fact that they're thefrontline customer service
people.
So they're, they're affiliatepeople that recruit affiliates.
They are customer service peoplethat take care of existing

(40:42):
customers, their reservationistsand their global network
reservationists, et cetera.
So what they proposed, um, isthat they're going to come on
the podcast.
We're going to make it fun.
I'm not going to tell you whatit's going to be like, but we're
going to make it fun.
Cheers.
James, I want you to think aboutme as Hugh Hefner without the
red pajamas.

(41:02):
Wait a minute, and we're goingto

And we were off track on hairlines.
Oh, boy.

Ken Lucci (41:06):
and we're going to have to have, we're going to
have to have many people on.
You're going to see many faces.
We'll make it fun, but I, I, I'mreally enthused about it.
Because we're going to ask themspecific questions on how do
they overcome price?
How do they maintain largeaccounts, et cetera, et cetera.
So, so look at that.

(41:27):
So the show was great.

Oh, yeah.

Ken Lucci (41:29):
Um, I, I do feel like I have to hit a couple of
things.
Um, we were, I was asked to do apresentation for the second year
in a row with one of the largeaffiliate networks, a company
called Boston coach.
And there were a couple hundredpeople there.
And I did a session, I did asession on selling value instead
of low price.

(41:50):
Um, and by the way, anybody whowants to, can anybody that wants
to email me at info at drivingtransactions.
com info at drivingtransactions.
com.
And I will invite you to thewebinar.
Okay.
So what we decided to do is wedid the presentation and it
really talked about.

(42:11):
Tangible ways to sell valueinstead of low price.
I'm not going to go into ingreat detail, but it was
eyeopening.
People loved it.
And so what we're going to do iswe're going to do a webinar.
I offered to do a webinarbecause I don't want you.
I couldn't go over the wholething in 30 minutes, but.
I want to provide an hour longwith action items, with, um,

(42:35):
worksheets so that you canimplement all this stuff, just
to give you an idea.
I mean, selling value is notleading off with the price.
First selling value is steppingback and establishing rapport
relationship.
You know, one key.
Uh, excuse me.
Could I have your first name?

(42:56):
James?
My name is.
Can I call you James?
My name is Ken.
My name is Ken.
I'm going to be assisting youtoday.
So just by using your namerepeatedly, you've increased the
chance that that person is goingto buy from you by about 30%.
So, so that webinar, we're goingto take them all the way through
that.
And then so, but during thatsession in the Q and a period, I

(43:17):
had a lot of people ask me aboutthe sentiment of the economy.
So.
I, I walked away with threepotential gray clouds, not black
clouds, but gray clouds.

Could they turn black or are we thinking they're
going to stay gray?

Ken Lucci (43:33):
So here's the thing with a gray cloud, right?
So a gray cloud could turn, turnblack, or it could become a
rainbow, right?
It can, it can clear and

go either way.

Ken Lucci (43:42):
go either way.
So one gray cloud that I thinkis going to persist and get
darker is the fleet insuranceissue.

I'd love to tell you that I thought that was
going to be a rainbow, but guys,I think we're, I think

Ken Lucci (43:55):
Nope.
And we're going to hammer thathome.
We're going to hammer that hometo, to people.
Get serious about becomingproactive, and they have to
understand that it's a culturalthing, and we'll have to get Tim
on to, to go into great detailwith that.
The second, the second graycloud, um, is this connectivity

(44:18):
issue that the thought processarose at the show that I think
should concern everybody.
And we're not, I'm not going togo into great detail because I
have to study it, right?
And I've, I only heard somechicken little kind of stuff,

(44:38):
but I'm going to have to figureit out.
And we're actually thinkingabout doing some sort of a
position paper.
But the idea is that.
One software company, don't useany names, one software company
that is, that is now part ofthree software companies.
They were on their own and nowthey are, they're owned by one

(45:01):
company and they're going tocreate what they call, they're
going to create hyperconnectivity.
But so that all the data isflowing perfectly between those
softwares.
So the concern there is what Icall connectivity island.
Which is the connectivity ofthose software will be great.

(45:24):
And then now what happens toconnectivity outside the realm
of that?
And that's what we have tostudy, right?
Because everything I've readabout.
literally talks about improvingopen connectivity and
collaboration with othersoftware providers and total
collaboration and cooperation.

(45:45):
Um, and the state of theindustry report that we did
talked about the fact that thereare six countries that make up
70 percent of corporate travel.
Okay.
Um, and if you read the, uh, ifyou go see the webinar, you'll
know what they are, but they arethe United States, China, UK,
Germany, France.
And I know there's another one,but anyway,

so let me ask you, how much of this do you think
comes from the fact That wedidn't have a lot of options in
our industry to begin with,right?
There's never, you know, you go,you go to, you know, the, the
sales space, Hey, I'm, I'm goingto go find a CRM, a customer,
you know, relations manager.
There's a billion of them.

Ken Lucci (46:24):
yeah.
Cause that's the, because that'stheir multi industry

How much of this do you think comes from the fact
that as an industry, we'resmall.
And I guess the other questionI'd have for you is I think,
what do you see happening with.
Are you amazed with our motorwith the other softwares there
that haven't even come over toour world yet?
Do you think there's any cross?

Ken Lucci (46:44):
Yes.
So I, I will tell you, I, Ileft, I left The conference
extremely concerned, um, veryconcerned.
And I think to give that subjectmatter, you know, a full
attention, it needs to be inwriting and it needs to be

(47:06):
researched.
Um, but I will tell you that isa great connectivity is a great
cloud.
That's only, it only matters.
If you want to take in work orfarm it out.
So you want, you want to farmin, right?
You're going to receiveinformation, data,
electronically, automaticallyversus phone and email, or if

(47:29):
you want to farm out.
Um, so, and the, the last graypiece before I get to a real ray
of sunshine, the last gray cloudthat potentially people were
concerned about.
Was the economy.

Yeah.

Ken Lucci (47:44):
So right after I did the talk with Boston coach, the
Q and A opened up.
I thought I was going to get Qand A about pricing.
So I started getting Q and Ainstantly.
And the first question was aboutthe economy.
So we, as you know, we did the,we're doing the financial state
of the industry report.
We have a summit coming up onApril 30th in Washington, DC.

(48:06):
Again, if you want information,it's info
drivingrtransactions.Com And wedid a huge deep dive.
And every single morning I'm onthe economist portal with 50
more IQ points than me.
The bottom line is that comingafter the election and coming
after the first of the year,everybody was really enthused.

(48:28):
But there, in the past week, I'mreviewing the Economist Portal
and I'm seeing things about thechaos factor.

Is this different than what we've seen?
Because, you know, coming out ofCOVID it was, well, it's a
recession, but it's not arecession.

Ken Lucci (48:44):
Now, this is, this is,

How is this different?

Ken Lucci (48:47):
is this different?
I'll tell you, the underpinningsof the economy are fantastic.
The underpinnings of the economysince the election, the
underpinnings are exceptional,okay?
It's, number one, Inflation wastrending down to 2%.
That's what we have to seeNumber one is the inflation.
Number two, the expectation thatthe, the tax cuts were going to

(49:10):
be extended.
Okay.
Now, contrary to popular belief,they're not tax cuts for the
ultra.
Wealthy they're tax cuts forsmall business people and small
business is the engine of the ofthe country Okay, it directly
affects this industry but buteverybody thinks that still
thinks that the that they'regoing to come up and the third
the third issue is to watch thefed because if number one

(49:33):
happens the Inflation goes down.
Number two happens.
The tax cuts are, are, are, um,extended.
Okay.
The 2017 tax cuts are extended.
The third thing will happen,which is the Fed will lower
interest rates by, you know, atleast twice.

the lever they have to pull.

Ken Lucci (49:50):
Every economist is practically creaming their jeans
over this, right?
Those, that trifecta, they'reall waiting.
Well, see, this is why I haveno, you know, that's the way I

We're officially PG 13 now.

Ken Lucci (50:01):
Right.
The, but the economists, they'rewaiting for, they're waiting for
it.
They're waiting for it.
They're anticipating.
Okay.
Well, the last week on, youknow, the data portals that I
look at, they all started notbacktracking, but I think it was
almost like You could feel themcome back and say, there's a

(50:21):
little bit, there's,

Hesitation

Ken Lucci (50:24):
there's chaos going on in DC.
So that was the

So is this doge?
Is this, what's the trigger for

Ken Lucci (50:32):
it is.

what is it that has them leery?
And is this something where it'strepidation on

Ken Lucci (50:36):
I'm going to tell you what it is.
It's the unintended, unintendedconsequences.
Of actions taken in D.
C.
that sound good, but they haveunintended consequences.
I'm going to do

Butterfly effect.

Ken Lucci (50:51):
it is the butterfly effect because, you know, the
underpinnings are fantastic, butsentiment is extremely
important, right?
Perception becomes realitypretty damn fast.
So it is specifically the Dogething.
And yesterday, uh, today'sFriday, I will throw out the
date.
It's February 28th, yesterday,February 27th.

(51:14):
Apparently the government frozeall government travel and they
basically essentiallyessentially cut everybody's
credit cards.

And they had already been doing that to a
certain extent because I knowin, at ABA, guess what?
You know, Cliff and Roger fromFMCSA, two guys that are always
there.
Guys, we can't go.
We got our spending cut.
So, so they have now completelycut that back

Ken Lucci (51:38):
Yep.
And you know, and it's the lawof unintended consequences.
I, I think my message toeverybody is.
Buy what you need.
Do not buy based on a want.
Okay?
Use data to drive your assetpurchases.

Well, it's the suburban versus the escalade
that we always bring

Ken Lucci (52:01):
Oh, I mean, I'm telling you, I took a, I took an
escalade back, uh, to the, to,to, uh, the airport with Brett
Barron's holds.
I, you know, I'm a carpetbagger,so I didn't pay any for any
meals during the entire trip.
I

I want to be like you when I grow up, Ken.

Ken Lucci (52:14):
I ate like a

I'm doing client

Ken Lucci (52:16):
I'm standing out there at five o'clock in the
morning and Barron holds comesout.
I'm like, Hey, can I grab a, canI grab a, of course.
And the guy was impeccable.
Right.
And then I get picked and then Iget picked up in Tampa.
And the guy is in an Escaladewearing a pair of shorts.
I'm like, Jesus Christ.
Anyway, I don't want to get downthat road, but buy what you need

(52:37):
and keep cash liquid.
Keep yourself liquid.
Right?
So that if in the middle of theyear, things start going better.
Fantastic.
Maybe you can.
You maybe you can make apurchase if it's a good deal,
but buy what you need and beprudent, right?
Don't get caught up in thehysteria of buying and
overloading your balance sheetUm, the the one the one final I

(53:00):
will tell you that is a is a isan absolute rainbow And a bright
spot of the show for me.
I'm walking out the door Andeverybody's breaking down booze
and I'm walking out the door andI see the guys from Madge
software.
Have you seen Madge's by theway?

I haven't.
No, we were talking about itearlier.

Ken Lucci (53:20):
So I see a guy named Leonardo Gianni and, and he
gives me, and he, by the way, heautographed the book for me.
Right.
Okay.
So to Ken, for my first mentor,uh, he's being very, Candid.
Very nice.
Uh, may this book sparkinnovation in the industry.
So I looked at this and hehanded it to me.

(53:44):
I had finished the book.
I was set to read.
Uh, I finished it, the firstbook that I brought on the trip.
So I'm into the first hundredpages of this book.
This book is called mobility 3.
0 and it's how to win and thrivein the future passenger
transportation, Leonardo G a N NI O mobility 3.

(54:04):
0.
And I'm going

And it is on Amazon.
I ordered myself a copy rightbefore we jumped

Ken Lucci (54:08):
so, so it's, this book is high brow.
This book is some of it makes mefeel like when I sit with
economists on the portal, I'mlike, I'm only following every
third word.
But, but the reality is thisbook is points to what our
industry needs to do.
You have to distill it down,but.

(54:29):
It's a fantastic book.
Okay.

And I think we can drop a link to that in the show
notes.
And I know, like

Ken Lucci (54:36):
try to get him on.
I actually texted him andbecause you know, it was, it was
hectic and where everybody wasleaving.
I texted him when I landed and Isaid, look, I'm a hundred pages
into the book.
And I think number one, you needto come on the podcast and you
need to distill it down.
Right.
Uh, it's, it's meant for thefuture of all ground
transportation, mobility, allmobility, public transit, taxi,

(54:59):
any empty everything.
I said, distill it down for thelivery space.
So let's, we'll leave it atthat.
But, you know, overall, I thinkthe show went extremely well.
Um, I think that, you know, therevelation for me is I think you
and I need to do some sort of ameet and greet of some kind.

love to do a fireside chat.
I think that would be anabsolute blast.

Ken Lucci (55:21):
Because a lot of people just had general
questions that obviously becausethey listen to the podcast, you
know, and maybe the other thingis we need to do more Q and A on
the podcast.
Maybe we need a Q and A session.
Maybe we need the last 10minutes to be question and
answer.
Maybe I, I don't know.
We'll have to get with our, uh,producer, John and figure out

(55:42):
what to do, but it.
Seem to me that a lot of peoplethat were stopping me, it was a
either a, my, I want to talk toyou about selling my business,
which is great, terrific.
Um, but not to be done on theshow floor.
Um, to listen, I love yourpodcast and I just have a
question.
So I think we need somethingnext year and maybe it's, maybe

(56:03):
it's what we need to do is weneed to.
Open up the podcast to I don'tknow if we can open it up to
phone calls for emailsbeforehand I don't know how to
do it.
But I think the format isworking You know, I always
question because I don't knowthe I don't know the podcast
business I always questionwhether we're being effective

(56:24):
and based on the numbers Johntells me we're going through the
roof And based on the show, Igot to tell you, I think, I
think that it's, it's a formatthat's respected.
I think it's a format that'sneeded.
I'd like to see us find a way toaddress.
those questions, right?

I agree.
And I think one of the biggestthings is I want everybody
listening to us to know that weread every comment.
If you guys sent us a comment,if you guys sent us an email, if
you guys, you know, I can'tpromise we'll be quick.
We have so many differentplatforms, but we take it very
seriously and we really love thefeedback.
Um, and I think for us, this issomething that, you know, at
some point we may add sponsors,we may kind of try and bring it

(57:03):
forward, but it's something thatwe genuinely see as a way.
For us to help the industry andhelp growth and help the
entrepreneurship and really kindof bring the stories of our
industry to light.

Ken Lucci (57:18):
Every, if you listen, everyone, and I started
listening, even though I hatethe sound of my own

Oh God.
Sad to your own voice is theworst.
I can't,

Ken Lucci (57:28):
I can't say, you know, somebody at the show said
to me that that's pretty common.
Somebody that does videos andinfomercials.
I'm like, okay, right.
And I said, do they, did theyhate the look of their face too?
I mean, I don't know what totell

Okay.
I, no, I will not really, ifwe're, if we're talking YouTube,
I'm not watching our episodes onYouTube.
I have my, I have my Apple.
I listened to, I listened tomyself in the car.
Like I would anyone else.

Ken Lucci (57:51):
So I walked away thinking the industry's doing
extremely well.
I walked away from absolutelythere's more providers this year
than last year.
Uh, you know, worried aboutthose gray clouds, you know, one
being the fleet.
Insurance issue, which lookguys, we have to manage it.
Stop bitching about it.

(58:11):
We have to manage it

You do.
It's like any other problem youdeal with.

Ken Lucci (58:15):
you know the second is you know, I think the chaos
is going to calm down, right?
I think at some point if they'reyou know, if something slides
and the economy starts to slideI I think that the
administration will go fiveyards forward to try to make
sure that they, you know, thatthey reverse it quickly.

(58:36):
I'd

Well, and, and having a financial expert, Ken,
how much cash should they haveon hand?
Right?
God forbid chicken.
Little's right.
The sky falls.
Should they have three months ofoperating revenue?
What, what should you have onhand?

Ken Lucci (58:50):
for three to four months of operating revenue,
fixed expenses, right?
So I hate to say it, but if theworst happens and this industry
is known for that, right, we hadnine 11 where things absolutely
stopped.
We had the financial crisis.
Now we had the pandemic.
Let's learn from the pastpeople, right?
You need to have three or fourmonths of fish fixed expenses.

(59:11):
Liquid hanging out.
So,

Sitting in an account,

Ken Lucci (59:14):
sitting in account.
Absolutely.
And if you say to me, you don'thave it If you don't have it,
it's very simple.

Sell your boat.

Ken Lucci (59:21):
Now, it's it's literally like if you don't have
money set aside They say youshould have six months of your
pay hanging up hanging around Insavings in case the worst thing
happens if you don't have threeto four months of this Fixed
expenses your rent your phonebill your software Your fleet
expense payments, your insurancepayments.

(59:42):
If that's not hanging out,sitting there in a savings
account, your prices are too lowor you're overspending in other
areas.
It's as simple as that though.
There's, there's no other thirdchoice there.
So yeah, I think you should, Ithink it's very prudent, um,
because of the chaos factor.
Um, while everything looks good,all, all of the underpinnings of

(01:00:04):
the economy look fantastic, youknow, but there is some
unpredictable unpredictability.
In Washington, DC.
So I think it's prudent.
That's a, I think it's a goodthing.
Good message to end on

James Blain (01:00:16):
And I want to zero in on something you said,
because, you know, one of myfavorite sayings is you always
make a friend before you needone.
You should always be ready forthe worst before it happens.
One of the key things I want topoint out is you said you should
have your three to four monthsin your business.
And then you should have sixmonths of your personal, right?

Ken Lucci (01:00:35):
100%.

So that doesn't mean that I'm expecting to have
it all there in the business.
It's, I need to have an accountsomewhere for me personally, for
my family, for everything I havethat's separate.
And I need to have what thebusiness has.
And one of the things, at leastfor me, and I'd love to get your
thoughts on this, Ken, becauseBeing an MNA, this is huge.

(01:00:58):
One of the things that came outat the EOS session was, if
you're thinking of exiting thebusiness in three to four years,
that doesn't mean that you don'thave a 10 year plan for your
business.
You still want a 10 year planfor the business.
You still, can you talk abouthow that kind of thinking, and I
only bring it up because Ireally want to it.

(01:01:18):
Get that in before we close out.
Can you talk about how peopleneed to, now that we've come
back from the show, we're in theget it done mode.
How do they need to think aboutthat?
How do they need to go back andmake sure they've got it?
There

Ken Lucci (01:01:30):
Well, you know, number one, you have to number
one, you have to have a 12 monthbudget, right?
I just, it, it kind of isastounding to me if you, well, I
never did that before.
Okay, great.
But you need to have a 12 monthbudget.
And so you've got short termgoals and then long term what do
you want to do with the businesswhen people Come to my booth.

(01:01:51):
That's the first thing that Iask them.
What do you want to do with thisbusiness long term?
Okay.
And if you never, ever, ever,ever intend to sell it, my
answer is you should still beready to exit in case somebody
comes in and makes you theproverbial offer you can't
refuse.
But more importantly, in casesomething happens where you

(01:02:12):
cannot.
Run the business or don't wantto run the business or you want
to or have to exit.
So the 12 month budget kind ofleads to the 36 month strategic
business plan Okay, you knowwhat your cost structure is, you
know what you have for fleet nowThe only thing you really don't

(01:02:32):
know is what's going to come infor top line revenue, but past
is usually prologue And you canusually project and forecast
with some amount of certainty,what your revenue is going to
look like.
And you certainly in a 12 monthbudget, we do slight pivots up
or down, but when we do a 36month strategic plan, have an

(01:02:56):
idea what you're going to focuson, have an idea, what's your
major, how are you going to growyour major revenue streams, and
as you grow them, have an ideaof.
What you're going to have to addfor costs.
I'm a little concerned that weare seeing more of a, we're
seeing a little bit of a herdmentality, right?

(01:03:17):
And I need to, I need to buy amotor coach.
Well, why?
Because I farmed out a hundredthousand dollars last year.
That, no, that's not, You know,that that's the, a good example
of a strategic plan, a strategicplan says when I farm out X, or
when I have this mini coach paidoff, I'm going to keep it for

(01:03:41):
another 12 months, et cetera.

1.
5 times the work for the busyou're

Ken Lucci (01:03:46):
correct.
So the,

that whole idea.

Ken Lucci (01:03:48):
Correct.
The answer is in 25 to me, I, mygoal would be if I was an
operator, which I tell myoperators all the time would be
maximize your existing fleet asmuch as you possibly can try to
add 10 percent to revenue, youknow, like some of my customers
that are a hundred milliondollars, it's difficult to say
I'm going to add 10, right?

(01:04:09):
But in that case, I'd say, whydon't you focus, focus on adding
5 percent and why don't we tryto improve efficiencies?
So I think the short term planrevolves around modest goals
that you know you can hit,including keeping your
profitability, improving yourprofitability from last year,
because you know your coststructure, right?
If you know your last 12 monthsand you've got your final P& L

(01:04:32):
for the year, you canextrapolate it.
36 month plan.
It really is.
Hmm.
What are the, what are, what arethe next steps of the business?
I mean, we went through thisexercise with a client the other
day.
He brought in two motor coaches,brand spanking new, gorgeous
motor coaches.
Okay.
Um, and I said to him, you know,obviously in 2025, we've got to

(01:04:55):
get those, those.
Those ladies out there makingsome serious money, right?
So we set the goals for thosemotor coaches and then we said,
okay, at the end of the day, youknow, what do you think, what do
you think you'd like to do nextyear or the year after?
So that's where the strategicplans are.
But you know, to me, it startswith.

(01:05:17):
Revenue goals and then it'sorganizational goals, right?
It's organizational goals.
What, how do I want to move mybusiness forward?
So I thought the education, Iknow we're going long, but it

This is going to be a long episode guys.

Ken Lucci (01:05:30):
I thought the education was good.
Um, I didn't go, I didn't gointo each session, but I heard
the education was good.
Um, I wanted to stay for the EOSsession, but, um, I didn't find
out about it until I didn'trealize it was going to, he was
going to be doing the EOSsession.
Um, until, uh, it was, I alreadymade my plan.

(01:05:52):
So we are definitely from ateasing of future episode,
besides the affiliate managerand what he looks for in his
providers.
Um, and we'll get you a coupleof those affiliate managers and
besides the Leros ladies, whichis going to be my episode of the
year, we are definitely 100percent going to have Mike

(01:06:15):
Zappone on about EOS.
Now, one of the things I'll warnyou about EOS is if you're not
serious, if you are notdedicated to building a business
that is, becomes a company,right?
Cause remember the saying, youknow, all companies.
All companies are businesses,but not all businesses are

(01:06:37):
companies.
The EOS, EOS is a seriousfinancial commitment, but it's
also a serious commitment intime and learning, right?
So for all my limo owner friendsout there that say I've been
doing it for 30 years, you know,I don't need to know anything
more.
Uh, right.
It's, you know, as a side note,those are usually the worst
businesses that we review is,you know, that kind of thinking

(01:07:02):
EOS is extremely, I was glad itwas there this year and I'm glad
that Mike is doing it becauseMike Zappone knows the industry
and he showed me the EOS system.
I knew about the US system.
I read a couple of the booksthat that are, that are
foundational around it, but Iwill tell operators it's, it's
for the serious.

(01:07:24):
It's for the seriousentrepreneur that wants to turn
his business into a company thatexists beyond him.
So that to me is, is, you know,I think that was the best
session.
That was the best edition that Icould, that they did this year
is adding in, you know, I havemy own opinions about the third

(01:07:45):
day.
I think that the third dayshould absolutely 100 percent
cause you're already there.
100%.
It should be about intensive.
Now you know how I feel aboutwhat the intensive should be.
Uh, and what's lacking in thebusiness, but I can't think of a
better one than, than the EOS toget these guys thinking

I agree.
And I think, I think you've,you've hit on so many great
nuggets here that, you know,guys, I'm going to warn you
right now.
We're going to keep this onegoing just because I want to
make sure we hit them.
But a couple of big things thathave jumped out to me about what
you've said.
The first is that you want tomake when it's very hard.
And I've seen this in weightloss, right?
I've seen this in exercise.

(01:08:29):
It's very hard to look atsomebody that is further ahead
in their journey and not want tofeel like you should be there or
you should fast forward.
I'm lucky enough.
We've had Athena Graham on thepodcast.
I'm lucky enough to call her afriend and a mentor, you know,
and I, and I see a lot ofthings.
I see where she's at.
And Athena is very good aboutmaking sure that I understand.

(01:08:51):
James, you're going to getthere.
James, you get it.
You got to work on where you'reat.
You got to work on being yourauthentic self.
You got to step into courage.
And so what I see a lot of timeshappen, it shows is there's that
pressure.
It's the Cadillac and the SUVall over again.
It's well, you know, I need togo buy a motor coach.
All right, great.
So you have 1.

(01:09:11):
5 times the work stuff.
Well, no, everybody's got amotor coach.
So I got to figure out how tobuy a motor coach.
Well, everybody's doing this.
I got to figure out how to dothis.
I think one of the big things atthe show that you have to keep
in mind is you may meet someonethat is at that hundred million
dollar business and you mightnot even have made it to a
million in revenue yet.

(01:09:33):
And it can be very hard to say,Hey, I'm at this part of the
journey, but when they're goingto the dinner and they're doing
this and they're doing all thatand they're, you know, they've
put a thousand dollars into thatmachine on the casino floor,
like it's a dollar.
There's a lot of pressure to tryand keep up that impression.
And one of the things that Ithink is huge at the shows is

(01:09:55):
understanding that.
You really have to be yourauthentic self.
You really have to understandwhere you are in the journey and
you really have to work on whereyou're at and work on getting
there instead of trying to givethe image that you're there at
hyper extending yourself ifyou're not.
I'd love to get your thoughts onthat, Ken, because that for me

(01:10:16):
has been a big thing that I'velearned.

Ken Lucci (01:10:18):
so one of the things I came away with at this show
was the fact that the showbooth, as far as where we sit,
the show booth, the show boothis a problem.
Okay, because my existingcustomers come and they want to
say hi, right?
Because everything we do is onzoom, which is great.
They find out that I'm a lotshorter than they think I am.
Number two, and

Get your Tom Cruise shoes.
We'll fix that.

Ken Lucci (01:10:40):
Number two, a lot of people wait, right?

Yeah.

Ken Lucci (01:10:45):
The first year, and maybe it's the podcast, the
first year, this is the firstyear that I found that people
want to come in and spend 20, 20or 30 minutes, which I think we
need.
This is why I think you and Ineed to figure out some sort of
a, an event, meet and greet, askthe questions, whatever it

Which by the way, comments, if you guys like that
idea, if that's something you'dlike to see, let us know because
we need, we need to know yourfeedback.

Ken Lucci (01:11:08):
So, to your point though, you know, It's very easy
in this industry because we'rein the flash business.
We're in the limousine.
It's very easy to get caught upin it.
Okay.
Now you're talking to a guy who,if I needed it, if I had a bride
say she wanted a Rolls RoycePhantom, I just went out and
bought it.
I mean that when I was anoperator, it didn't make any, I

(01:11:31):
mean, I did that on a bet andthankfully it worked out, but.
You know, the idea is it'seasier.
It's easy to create that facadeof success, right?
The problem with the facade ofsuccess.
Is you end up fooling yourself,and then all it takes is maybe
10 percent drop in business,maybe even less.

(01:11:54):
And you're not just underwater,you're drowning, right?
So, uh,

tied to your feet

Ken Lucci (01:12:01):
right, so, so, when you say to me, uh, uh, you know,
when we walk around the show,there is an element of bravado
that I think is unhealthy.
And I think there's an elementof bravado where people want to
walk around and they want totell you how wonderful they're
doing.
And, you know, I live in a, Ilive in a life of Chinese walls,

(01:12:23):
right?
Meaning that's, that's a termthat's used on the M& A side
that when you know something,you can't let someone else know
that you know that information.

he's telling you, he's having the best year of his
life, but you just went into thebusiness and you know, that he
is absolutely tanking, but youcan't say that.
Right.
And we, we have the same thingin the safety world, right?
I see companies all the time.
We are the safest, we have thebest culture and I'm going, but
when we, when we talk to you, Iknow your program's

Ken Lucci (01:12:52):
Right.
Well, I,

make a move to fix it,

Ken Lucci (01:12:55):
Right.
You, you know

have that same concept.

Ken Lucci (01:12:58):
You know that they're one accident away from having a
massive increase.
It's going to close them.
And I know that they're, thatthey have less liquidity.
They have no liquidity.
And if something happens, theycan't make their next payroll.
But I don't know what it isabout human nature, you know,
from an entrepreneurialperspective, I think we all want

(01:13:18):
to be perceived as successful.
Um, But I think, I think thatthat's kind of to me like an 80s
or 90s limo mentality when thebusiness really had some, it was
high rolling, it agreed as good,and there were, there were
definitely Cadillacs that wereout there, um, stretch Cadillacs

(01:13:43):
all over New York.
I think that's a passé, I thinkthat's a passé thought process.
I don't know.
I would just urge people tofocus on the fundamentals.
Um, to me, I, I go to the showsto, to gather information, to
disperse information.

(01:14:03):
Um, the conferences are less tome about.
Is there less to me about youtelling me all of the great
things about how wonderful thebusiness is.
It's more about me asking thesame pointed questions to
people.
How was your, how was your lastquarter, 2024, you know, did
corporate travel slow down foryou because we're trying to

(01:14:26):
measure sentiment in differentways, but, uh, you know, in
general, I think we have toexpect from the conference that
there's going to be a certainamount of bravado.
My biggest hope is that we seeall those same people back the
next year and They're trulyprospering because, you know,
there's much different.
It's a different, it's differentthan post posting your Rolex on
Facebook than it is being ableto make your payroll and not

(01:14:50):
worrying about, you know, orposting your toys or the rest of
it.
I know everybody wants to, to dovery well and be perceived as
doing well, but I think it'smore important to, because you
have employees that depend onyou.
It's more important to have.
True financial stability.
Um, so, you know, the last thingI'm gonna leave you with is what

(01:15:15):
do you think would happen tothat conference at the
conference instead of being inLas Vegas?
Was in San Diego or LA orPhoenix.

think the direct flights would be harder to get.

Ken Lucci (01:15:31):
I get,

I, I think, I think there's, so, so for those that
haven't been in the industrylong enough to know, you know,
that is a show that has been inVegas for a very long time.
And that kind of comes fromBobbitt Media and LCT and, and,
and all the way back.
Um, you know, that was kind of,that was, you know, Sarah
Eastwood Richardson, who we'llhave on in a future date.

(01:15:53):
Um, that was her big show.
I mean, that was, that's whenshe was

Ken Lucci (01:15:56):
yeah, she was, she was at the show this

Yeah.
She was at the show.
I'd, um, shout out to Sarah.
I didn't get to talk to her,but, um, uh, you know, it was,
it was the big show of the year.
It works, I think from purely,uh.
Logistics standpoint, I think alot of that works on the
international side becauseinternationally, it's very easy
to get to Las Vegas.

(01:16:18):
I think if we move to a SanDiego, if we did something like
that, I think the show could bejust as successful, but I think
part of the allure part of thatis at least for those flying
internationally coming in.
It's very easy to get flights toVegas.
That's kind of a traditionallocation.
Um, I don't, like I said, Idon't see why it couldn't be

(01:16:38):
just as successful somewhereelse.
I think we've reached a pointwhere the East Coast Chauffeur
Driven show is now starting to,it's not quite, at least in
terms of my experience, it's notquite the same show.
The international attendeesdon't seem to be as high, but
that's a show that's movingaround.
I mean, at the end of this year,we're going to Dallas, Texas.

Ken Lucci (01:17:00):
And you know, I think that that one needs, I mean, I
look forward to it because ofthe state of the industry
sponsorship and, and that's thecatalyst for us to do next
year's report.
It's usually the startingprocess of, of me, you know, and
formulating the report.
And I, um, I love that showbecause of it.
I, I think it's a completelydifferent vibe.

(01:17:20):
You you're more apt to be ableto get us, you know, alone at
the, at that show.
But I do think we need to bethinking about, um, you know,
kind of a meet and greetsession.
Maybe we'll try it out in Texas.
But if, again, if anybody's gotsome ideas that would be, that
would be terrific.
Um, so let's put this thing to aclose.

(01:17:41):
Let's, you know, we've got, um,we've got a few pretty decent.
Uh, podcasts that are dropping.
One is, uh, Tom Holden from BusAdvisors from Transportation
Advisors.
I interviewed him.
He's going to be dropping, um,coming up.
We will definitely have theaffiliate manager for the

(01:18:04):
smaller operators that arelooking to attract affiliate
work.
I think that's going to be anabsolute showstopper.
And then, then me with the Lerosladies.
I think they're going to giveyou a good idea.
On how these people thatfrontline, they're fantastic.
The first of all, it was a greatcompany, but frontline, they

(01:18:25):
deal with clients every singleday.
So in the meantime, knowing thatthat's coming up and their
frontline reservations, peopleand customer service people, if
the, anybody from the audiencehas questions, send them in.
Uh, you know, if you feel you,you know, want to try to
overcome objections on price, etcetera, or, you know, if you

(01:18:47):
want to start doing affiliatework, I think that that would be
something that we should talkabout, um, but it's going to be
fun.
I'm going to leave some of thefun surprises and tell you that
that that is definitely one thateverybody's going to want to
participate in.
And, um, that's about it.
It was great seeing you in LasVegas.
We didn't get a chance to spend.
Anytime together, even thoughyour booth was next to mine.

(01:19:10):
Every time I looked over, youwere busy with, we, you were
absolutely, I saw Bruce youknow, wants to say goodbye and
that was about it.
It was like drinking from a firehose.
No question about it.

yeah.
I, uh, you know, being 50 50partners with Bruce, it, um, you
know, we, we maybe saw eachother for a minute.
This is one of those shows youand I saw each other for a
minute.
So, you know, it was one ofthose things, you know, you, you
lucky enough to start somethingwonderful with someone, you
build it up and then.
You know, sometimes you get tothe point where one of you is
running one thing, one of you isrunning another, and that's just

(01:19:44):
kind of how that plays out.
I think we've spent more timeyou and I talking here than we
did at the whole show,

Ken Lucci (01:19:49):
No.
And, you know, I think we'llcall this the double episode
because we've pretty much goneto a hundred.
25 minutes, which is fine.
We can eat and John can cut itup if he wants to.
Um, but I think we covered quitea bit.
Um, it's tough to compress awhole week's worth of work or,
you know, the entire show down.

everybody, thank you for listening.
We've got a ton coming.
We've got some branding stuffcoming.
We've got, you know, hopefullywe'll keep the insurance
conversation going.
We've got quite a bit comingdown the pipe.
So like we said, leave us acomment, subscribe, let us know
how we're doing and we will seeyou on the next episode.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.

(01:20:27):
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
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For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.

(01:20:48):
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.

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