Rock N’ Roll Pioneer: Charlie Horky’s Epic Journey in Ground Transportation

Episode Transcript
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Ken Lucci (00:23):
Well, good afternoon podcast world.
Uh, welcome to another excitingepisode of the Ground
Transportation Podcast with mysidekick James Blaine from PAX
Training.

James Blain (00:35):
Hey there, everybody.

Ken Lucci (00:36):
I am Cam Luci from Driving Transactions.
This is the 100% the highlightof every single week.
Uh, but today's very special tome.
Um, I started getting phonecalls from a guy named Charlie
Horkey, and I knew the name wasLegendary and he and I would
spend a lot of time after hourstalking about the business.
And when I got to meet him, uh,at a conference a few years ago,

(00:59):
it was literally like meetingone of your heroes and legends
in the business because you'vedone it all.
So we are so blessed to haveCharlie Horkey, who owns a
company today called SladeServices, but Charlie's been in
the business since 19 80.
To give you some context, I wasa freshman in in, in private ca

(01:21):
in Catholic high school, allboys high school that, that's
another story.
We'll talk about that.
Right?
But I was a freshman in highschool when this man was in the
limousine, started his limousinebusiness.
So, Charlie, welcome.
Thank you so much for agreeingto do this and give us a little
bit of what Slate services allabout today.
And then we're gonna delve intothe lemons, your history and the
business.

Charlie Horky (01:42):
Y Slate services that, um, no.
First of all, it's, it's nice tobe here guys.
Thanks for

Absolutely.

having me on.
Um, at least you went to yourfreshman year of high school, I
think.
I think when I was like,

Sorry.

this is what I wanna do.
And anyway, never too fond ofthat.
Um, slave Services is a, uh,ground transportation
reservation management company.
So, um, I guess you'd call us avirtual limousine company.
Um, but at the level that, um, Iwork at historically, which is

(02:16):
seems to be kind of, um, justmore upper 1% of the 1%, um, I,
I'm more of a specialist so Ican get better service out of a
limousine company than myclients can.
So, um, they come to me and,and, uh, ask me to do their
tours and, and press junketsand, and, um, you know,
difficult situations that, youknow, I still gotta work.

(02:39):
I ma I, I didn't make a lot ofgreat choices along the way,
but, but, but I'm grateful thatI can make a, a, um, make a
business with my, uh, uniqueknowledge of the industry.
And I'm fortunate that theclients that use me feel the
same way.

Ken Lucci (02:53):
So you manage all the logistics.
It's not just the reservation,it's the total logistics of the
trip from start to finish andall of the high touch elements,
you know, all of the specialrequests, et cetera.

Yeah, I, you know, I, I've been fighting the
word concierge for a long time.
Um, I, I, I, I, I really don'tthink that's what I do.
Um, you know, I'm not really theguy you're gonna call for hotel
reservations in Las

Ken Lucci (03:16):
No.
No.

um, I mean, along the way, sure, if someone comes
into Las Vegas and, you know,needs me to, you know, take care
of them, you know, because say,because they want access to a
club or they want access to are, to a, you know, a
reservation.
I've been living here a longtime.
I know a lot of people, socertainly we can enhance their
stay.
But as far as logistically, I'mresponsible for moving them from

(03:38):
one location to anotherlocation, and I'm answering to
tour managers of.
Rock bands.
I'm answering to publicitypeople at studios and, and it's
all high touch stuff and they,you know, there's a lot of
fabulous limousine companies inthe country and I use a lot of
'em, and these guys are supergood.
Um, but people wanna deal withthe same person every day.

(03:58):
They want to deal with the sameteam of people.
They give'em a fast response onemail, they give'em a fast
response on text messaging, youknow, where they feel that we're
an asset that's behind them.
And I'm really big on responsetime.
And, um, yeah, that's whatpeople use us for.
We're, we're not a, we're notthe people you're gonna call for
your daughter's quinceanera.
I mean, I'll take care of you.
Cut.
Call'em please.

(04:19):
But, um, but it isn't what I do.
I mean, you know, people want meto handle their ground
transportation in a lot of, um,d different places and points
and places all over the world.
I mean, on any given day,Slade's doing business on five
different continents, um, we'renot, we're not, we're not
dependent on, I just live in LasVegas, but Las Vegas isn't
really even a, a big time marketfor us

Ken Lucci (04:39):
but you, but, but see, you are the, you are the
person who says yes.
You work it all out seamlesslybehind the scenes, right?
Because you are dealing, you aredealing with people that don't
wanna know how you get it done.
They don't want to be involvedin step B, C, D, E, F, and G.
They want flawless from A to Z.
And you make it seem flawlessregardless of the number of

(05:01):
phone calls and emails andeverything else you need to do
behind the scenes.
You are that logistics expert.

yeah, yeah, for sure.
You know, the best way todescribe it is, you know, I'm a
specialist.
My, my, my clients, I, I don'thave, I'm not saying this with,
with any amount of swagger, butthey pay me to make decisions
for them.
And a lot of'em, um, have to dowith how to get things done.
And it's expensive.
And, you know, I don't need togo back every time and say,
well, I could do this, or Icould do that.

(05:28):
And the reason why I did this is'cause of that they just tell me
to get it done.

Ken Lucci (05:32):
They pay you.
Yes, I'll handle it.
Done.
That's, that's it.
And that's the, that's thebeauty of what you built.
And you hit the nail on the headwhen you said, to serve the top
1% of the 1% that you can't, youcan't say no, and they don't
want to hear about thelogistics.
You just would Charlie handleit.
And they, they have ultimatetrust.

(05:52):
That's an incredible place tobe.

yeah.
You know, there's, everyone'sgot stories and stuff.
Yeah.
You, you, you, you bet.
I mean, um, yeah.
It's, I'm glad I can do it, youknow, I'm glad I can do it,

you mentioned you're fighting the word
concierge, so you know, for, forsomeone that hasn't worked with
you before, when you're tryingto explain to someone, what do
you, what do you try to shiftthem to from concierge?
How do you describe that or, youknow what I mean?
In my world, I, I've, I'mmarried into an Italian family,
a bunch of people on the eastcoast, you would be the guy,
right?
He's the, he's the get you whereyou need to go, guy.
But how do you, how do youexplain that or, or when you're

(06:26):
fighting that word concierge,what do you try to get them to
understand is what you kind ofdo and how you do it?

Well, you know, just for clarification, I fight
it in my head.
I mean, it, it, it's not, it'snot, it's not really what I,
what I, what I wanna be doing,um, by definition of that word.
And when I say I fight it,because in this day and age,
based on, you know, certainlywhat Ken just said makes a lot
of sense is that you're justpushed into it.
You know it, you're, if you'recapable and you're good at what

(06:54):
you do, you know, I had a clientuse call me the other day and
she said, you know how we useyou, we use you.
'cause you understandcomplicated.

Ken Lucci (07:00):
You, You, you, you actually make complicated, looks
simple to them because theoutcome.

my wife says to me, she goes, she says, I know.
She goes, you know, honey, youwork your ass off.
She goes, albeit you do make itlook easy, but you know, she
goes, I know you work your assoff.
Um, but everybody, you know,everybody makes mistakes.
Um, anyway, so that's what I do.
Um, and, and to, for people togo a little more downstream is
that we don't own any equipment.
Um, we, we're a managementcompany and we're a logistics

(07:27):
company, so we use the bestplayers we can that are
certified, um, you know, like inNevada, Nevada Transportation
Authority or you know, the TaxiLimousine Commission in New
York.
You know, places where theygotta be, where, where they have
to have licenses, which is mostplaces, um, you know, in la use
all those guys and make surethey're properly insured and,
you know, just use, use.

(07:47):
Good team.
We try to develop, we, it's ourjob at Slade to develop the
limousine companies that we usearound the country.
And there's a lot of good guysout there, but I guarantee you,
and I am tooting my horn just alittle bit here.
They're better off for usworking with us.
And some people might mf me andsay, you know, that guy can be
tough, but I, you talk to guysthat I've done business with,
that I do a lot of businesswith, and they'll tell you that

(08:09):
they're better off from havingdone, they're, they're better
operators after we get done withthem.
If, if they, if they can, ifthey can do business with me,
they're pretty damn good at whatthey do.

Well, and not to sidetrack you, but there was a
point when you did haveequipment, you were on that
other side of the fence, right?
I mean, this is, this is right.
Yeah.
I don't, I don't wanna sidetrackthe conversation, but I think
it's worth pointing out thatthere was a time that you had
your own equipment, so you'reable to give them that real
world feedback.

Yeah.
I started as a driver, you know,I started in 1980 as a driver.
I washed cars, that budget, rana car, and, uh, met this guy.
I was nine, I was 20, maybe 19or 20, and the owners had a
buddy that was, you know, this.
Nice young, you know, businessperson.
And he was getting out there andhe said, Hey, do, what do you
think you could do?
We should be in businesstogether.

(08:54):
And I mean, like, you know, withthe washrag in one hand and the
hose in the other, I said, Ithink I could run a limo
company.
And, and, and he goes, really?
He goes, why do you think that?
And I said, well, you know, itcan't be that difficult.
You just pick people up and take'em where they gotta go.
And I know, I know Los Angelespretty well and you know, I, I
watched Cars for a limousinecompany before I had this job
and I hung out with those guys,you know, quite a bit.

(09:15):
And I think we could do that.
And that was my business plan.
And he said, well if you, if youcan, if you can make it work,
you can have half.
And I go, okay.
So he bought me the car and, um,I went in and told the people
that budget rent a car that I, Iwas, you know, leaving that I
was gonna start my own company.
And I put 20 bucks of gas in thetank and went on my way.

Ken Lucci (09:37):
And the rest is literally an epic history.
Charlie, not to get on metal,but what was that vehicle in
1980?
What was the vehicle that moved?

Oh, that was a 1979 Cadillac formal, and it was
silver and it had about 11,000miles on it.
I don't know why I can rememberall this, but those were cool
cars.
They were really cool.
It was a car that Cadillac madethat wasn't a stretch.
It was, that was the idea of astretch.
Before they had stretchlimousines, Cadillac made an
extended version called theCadillac Formal.

Ken Lucci (10:05):
for the kids of the audience that don't know this,
okay, that was called thisCadillac Series 75, and there
were two of those vehicles.
The 75 was stretched cell, what?
10 inches, 12 inches maybe.
They used the rear end clip of acoop.
Okay.
But, but they extended

Yeah.
Right, right.
They extended it and they put ina section where they had these
two pull out jump seats so youcould sit.
It was huge.
It was, you could put fourpeople in the back sitting
comfortably.
You know, if you look at any ofthe old rockstar photos of like,
led Zeppelin, um, when they'reall running, or Elvis Presley,
when they're all running intothose formals, they didn't have
multiple cars.
They put six in the back of aformal, you know, they all got

(10:46):
in with the stars, smashedagainst the window, you know,
with his, with his buddies and,and yeah.
So, yeah, that, that's a cat.
Any of those old pictures, 1972, 74, um, you know, you know
Butch, uh, Butch, hanky.
You know Butch?
Yeah.
Butch.
But butch, Butch was in thisgame probably 10 years or 20
years before me, and he had alot of Cadillac formals.

(11:06):
He, he drove, he drove Zeppelin.
He, he met Elvis.
He, he met all those guys.

Ken Lucci (11:09):
And so Commonwealth started the same way.
Dawson Rudder was telling us,you know, on, and Dawson had the
Cadillac formal, but the series75, they would take a Fleetwood
off the line and they would takeit down the street to a special,
a special garage.
It was filled with just thecraftsman and they, Cadillac
would stretch it

That's why they called Maloney.
Right?

Ken Lucci (11:29):
Ex.
Exactly.
And the formal had, if, if I'mnot mistaken, the formal had the
partition with the sliding glassdoor.
Right.
And then you could get the, youcould,

I, I was, I was driving, um, I was driving this
guy, I was driving this guy thenight that John Lennon was
murdered.
And uh, and I remember tappingon the glass and, and, and the
guy said, what's up?
And I said, John Lennon had justbeen murdered, you know, and,
uh, it was 1980 in December.

Ken Lucci (11:59):
Okay.
So how did you scale from 1980to one card?
Give us the chronology of that.

Yeah.
I hate that word scale, youknow, what's the scalability?
I had to call someone?
What are they talking about?
Um.
So what, how did that scale fromwhat, one

Ken Lucci (12:15):
How did you grow to one, from one car to being one
of the biggest, if not thebiggest operator in California
at a time?

That's 20 years in the making.
You know, by the time, you know,when I started CLS in 19, in,
in, uh, 1980, I grew thatcompany to in nine, by 2004,
2005, when David Sealer, um, puta group together and, uh, and
bought the company basically.

(12:43):
Um,

Ken Lucci (12:44):
How big were you when the year that you ended up
selling, how big was thebusiness from a revenue
perspective?
Do you remember?

yeah, it's 65, 70 million.

Wow.

Ken Lucci (12:54):
Phenomenal.
So what was the secret?
To go from fricking one car, youknow, which would be two maybe
back in the day would be ahundred thousand dollars a year
in revenue.
How do you go from 100,000 ayear in revenue to 65 million?

you're gonna have to read the book.

If you're, if you're on YouTube, we'll pop it
up on the screen or, or we'lldrop it in the, show notes,

Ken Lucci (13:13):
Okay, so you gotta look at this Unbreakable path.
Charlie Horkey.
A story of loss, resilience, andthe pursuit of greatness.

so give us the teaser for it, Charlie.
Right.
Because,'cause now that Ken hasdone that, I know I, I'm hanging
on the edge of my seat

I thought I had a story to tell and, and, um, and,
and so I wrote it when I wasaway.
And, uh, in the last seven yearssince I've been out, um, I, uh,
I've learned that good storiesare a dime a dozen.
And that, uh, it's a one in amillion shot to make a movie.
And, um, you know, and, and thehung it was horrifying to me was
that it's somebody else'sversion of your life.

(13:52):
Like, you know, it's ascreenwriter and we did pay for
a screenwriter to write this,and he did now, like, it was
spooky.
It was, it was scary.
I, I just, you know, and a, a, areally important client of mine
said to me, you know, Charlie,these things last forever.
Like, you know, is this, is, isthis really how you wanna be
represented, you know, Legacy.
Yeah.
Whatever that

Ken Lucci (14:10):
got, you've got an incredible story in the
industry, and I don't thinkpeople realize because based on
who's in the industry now.
A lot of your contemporaries arelong gone.

yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, you know, what it convertedto, I don't want to, you know,
take off all your time aboutthat book, but, um, was that I.
I'd spent all this time doingit, and someone turned me on to
Game Changer Publishing.
And what I liked about them wasthat I thought I needed to tell
the story better.
And the way they do it is theyrecord your book, so you speak
it.
So it took me like a week oflike two hours a day to like be

(14:44):
recorded.
And then it's been a amount ofediting.
But what they do is, is whatthey did with what they did with
this book, and it's not a badidea, was that I was looking for
a side hustle.
The only reason I was interestedin this book was a side hustle
to maybe get us to become aspeaker.
I mean, I'm pretty sure I couldget a gig,

Ken Lucci (15:01):
A hundred percent.
100%.

you know, so the book was wrote more as a
motivational piece, you know,get too close to the sun, you're
gonna get burned.
You know?
Um, it, it, it is certainly the,the story from the time I was
born until probably right aboutthe time when I got out, you
know?
Um, but it's not in gory detail.
It's not salacious, you know,I'm not saying, I mean, I
mentioned people that arefamous, but, but, but only

(15:25):
because I.
I was around them.
Not, not because I was in anyintimate settings with any of
them,

They're, they're part of the story, right?
They're part of the life.
They're part of understandingit.

right.
Yeah, exactly.

Ken Lucci (15:37):
so let's back up a

You, you might like him.
I mean, you know.

Ken Lucci (15:40):
Trust me, I'm gonna love it.

Yeah.
I'm definitely getting a copy of

Ken Lucci (15:43):
look, I, I, I honestly don't read nonfiction.
I read business books and I readbiographies because I believe
that you can get, there's somuch message with people's
life's experiences.
I frankly think that there's allthe messages you need to live
your life in the world.
And it's, I, I don't know thatthe word to me, I don't believe
that there's mistakes.
You and I have had thatconversation privately about

(16:06):
things that change you, andfrankly, that's gonna be our
next podcast together because Iwanna read the book first.
But, you know, there's fewthings that we, you and I could,
we could divulge

Yeah.
It, it, I think that, you know,I, I don't really know how to
tell.
That, that, that personal story.
I mean, it comes to me more andmore and, you know, I, I think
I'm living it, you know, I'm,I'm in a better place, uh,

Ken Lucci (16:31):
No question.
You're a phoenix.
You're in, wait a minute, you'rein Vegas, but you're a phoenix.
You've literally risen.
There's not too many people whohave a successful second act the
way you have no question aboutit.
And it's because people be,because people believe the most
important people from thatperiod believed in you, believed
in you.
So tell me something.
How do you take a one carcompany in 1980?

(16:55):
Granted, we're, we're, we're inthe heyday of limo, but, but
there are many people thatstarted a one car company in
1980 that, that have 10 carstoday.
How did you, how did you grow itto a monumental scale?

I listened to your podcast with, um, Tammy and
Dawson, and, and, and you know,it, it's the same story.
I mean, it's the, it it's thesame.
It, it, these are the samethings.
I mean, you know.
I was 27 years old and I'd beenin business for like seven
years.
And you know, my parents, youknow, were like, you know, okay,

(17:31):
he'll figure it out sooner orlater and he'll go back to
school and um, you know, so tospeak, like no one really bought
off on it.
And, um, I looked in the mirrorwhen I was 27 years old and I
opened up the paper and I sawthe entry level lawyers were
making as much money as I wasmaking at the time.
You know, they were looking forguys offering'em 60,$70,000 a
year.
And, um, that was like 1987 andI'd had a fair amount of success

(17:53):
by then.
And, um, but interesting, it wasfrom, took me from 1980 to 1990
to make$1 million a year.

Ken Lucci (18:03):
10 years to scale it, to grow it from

didn't think, like, you know, you're saying
like you didn't really thinklike that back then, and I
didn't think like back, wedidn't have the internet.
You didn't have any of that, youknow, any instantaneous

Ken Lucci (18:13):
No way.

But, but is that you learning, Charlie?
Is that you figuring out how todo it?
Or is that because you had tobuild the base?
Because like when I started myfirst business, God almighty, it
was a disaster.
Right?
I always say it was the mostexpensive education I ever got
was screwing it all up and thenone day it clicks and you're
like, all right, I know what todo.
I ha, I understand now it'skinda like going to school.

Ken Lucci (18:37):
what, just 19$80.
Okay.
Even 19$90 to get to a millionbucks, you were three five.
That, that'd be like a$5 millionup today.
A three to$5 million up

Oh yeah, maybe.
Yeah.
If you looked at it like that,

Ken Lucci (18:50):
look at it that way.
So, so what was yourbreakthrough moment, would you
say to to, to get it to thatmillion dollar mark?

well, You know, I found my way into the music
business solely because thepeople that the Renta car
company took care ofpredominantly were rock and roll
music industry.
So when I quit, I took my carand my suit and my business
card, and I went over toFrontline Management and I seen
this lady named Nina Vermes,who's passed away since then.
She's wonderful person.

(19:17):
And she, and, and they managed,she worked at Frontline
Management and they worked for,uh, Irving Azoff.
And so the Beatle, not TheBeatles, he would've had the
Beatles, he'd been around.
But, um, between the Eagles andthe Gogos and Dan Fogelberg and,
you know, buffet and Fogelberg,and I mean all these people, um,
she said to me, oh.
She goes, you know, DanFogelberg, he hates his

(19:38):
limousine company.
She goes, here's a, she gave mean album.
She goes, here's what he lookslike.
And he's coming in on Thursdayat American.
And uh, let's see how you go.
And I swear to God, that's how.
And, and so I went off to theairport and I picked up Dan and
I was probably 20 and Dan was 21and I was, sorry, 27.
And I used, excuse me.
And I started driving, um, himto the studio very late at

(20:00):
night.
And that's how I met.
Like, you know, I'd pick him upat four in the morning.
You gotta realize I'm 20 yearsold who gets picked up at four
o'clock in the morning.
Logically, what trains you forthat?
I mean, who is calling you atfour o'clock in the morning?
Why are they calling you at fouro'clock in the morning?
Oh, well, you know, hey, Dandoesn't wanna drive, you know,
drink and drive.
So, you know, and that wasn't abig thing back then.
Back then you could drink anddrive, but, um, but, well, I

(20:22):
mean, it was always illegal, butyou know what I

Ken Lucci (20:24):
Yeah, is about, listen, before cell phones may,
you know,

right.

Ken Lucci (20:28):
you, you weren't big enough to have two-way radio
system, but you're literally atthe phone waiting for these
people to

It's just me.
You know, you get a phone calland you know, you, you know,
grab, grab your, grab yoursocks, they say, and, uh, you
know, I'd run out there and whenI'd get there, um, he'd be in
the studio.
And in the studio they'd bejamming and it would be him,
Melinda Ronstadt and JimmyBuffett, and Henley and Ser and
they're all just playing.
And like, you know, prince wasdown the hall and he'd come by.
And, and so one by one duringthe course of the evening, I

(20:56):
would take them home,

Wow.

I'd pick up a guy and they all lived close by.
It was, you know, sunset sound,and I'd take him here.
It was just simple.
You could be up and back in 20,30, 40 minutes.
And that's how I got to meet allof them back then.
And I started, and then I wasdating a travel agent, and she
turned me on, like you asked mehow I scaled this thing.
I was dating a travel agent, andshe turned me on to a band
called The Police.
And so they were coming to town.
In, uh, 1981, and that's when Imet the band, the police, and I

(21:22):
started driving them and I hadDan Fogelberg and I was driving
Quincy Jones and I had this, so,and, and, uh, the, the tour
manager from the police told meabout a guy named Rex King that
was handling, um, Robert Plant.
He was doing a solo thing atthat time.
And so it started building thatway.
And then, you know, you, I guessyou're reading the book, um, I
had an opportunity to get, um,what would be considered Live

(21:45):
Nation Los Angeles today, but itwas Avalon attractions.
It's what Live Nation becameAvalon attractions was, was the
company back in the day in theLos Angeles area.
So you're at 1985, you gotcouple, three, four cars and you
get the biggest concert promoterin all the land.
And you know, if you know LosAngeles or look at it this way,
every single place.
So it was the forum and thesports arena in Irvine Meadows

(22:07):
and Universal Amphitheater.
Every goddamn piece of businessthat these guys promoted was
given to you on a silverplatter.
I mean, everything including theice Capades and the circus.

Ken Lucci (22:17):
But But you call, you got that'cause you cold called.
You cold called, meaning thatyou put on a suit, you got your
business cards and you coldcalled.

yeah, she was the catalyst.
I mean,

Yeah.

you know, I mean, I, I had some, it, it, you know,
we talk about like, how do youscale me?
Like, you know, I was driving,um, I was driving Dan Fogelberg
back then.
He was a huge star, as you mightremember, Ken, um, his manager
Irving, said, we do you wannahandle sticks?
And that was another big

Oh geez.

And I, And I, and I, said, sure.
So, uh, I called the tourmanager and he goes, you know,
hey, piss off.
He goes, you know, we, wealready have somebody, we've
already made those arrangements.
And I go, oh, oh, okay.
Sorry sir.
You know, you don't wanna hangup.
So I called Irving back'cause Iwould call Irving back and I go,
Hey, thanks for the referral.
But he, he said he already hadsomebody.
And he goes, he did.
He goes, well stay by yourphone.
I go, okay, so I'm not tellingyou.

(23:08):
Not a minute went by.
My phone rang and it was thatdude and he had a different
attitude and he said, my God.
He goes, I'm sorry.
I didn't know the relationship.
He said, can you, can you, canyou, can you write, can you
write this down?
And, and that was a powerful, Imean, I, you know, that was, uh,
in a huge moment for me at areally young age.
And, um, and I've, and I learnedat that moment that it's all

(23:30):
top-down stuff

Ken Lucci (23:31):
It is all relationships.

like and trust.

Ken Lucci (23:34):
It's all it

it was all, all for me.
I found top-down works better.
I wasn't good along the way withthe, the, you know, going in low
and you had to deal with toomany people that were too
subjective and made up their ownideas about your service that
they couldn't afford to beginwith.
And, and so you needed to workwith the top.
So I learned that if you dealtwith the celebrity, it was all
gonna be top down shit.

(23:56):
You know, when I was havingMichael Jackson, my company
exploded, um, to a certaindegree in the 1980s because
everywhere I went, I was drivingMichael and who was I, who was
hanging out with ElizabethTaylor?
Gregory Peck, know.

Ken Lucci (24:07):
But, but, but how do you duplicate yourself?
How did you, and I know it's awhile, but how did you go from.
I'm going because I've beenthere, right?
I've been there.
Uh, I was Hank Steinbrenner'sbody man, 24 hours a day.
I was taking care of him, andthen I had to grow my business.
I had to replace myself, right?
I had to replace myself.

(24:27):
I'm still getting calls, but Ihave to replace myself as the
primary driver.

I did Oh, oh, oh, that's a primary driver.
Um, that wasn't hard to do.
you know, you, there's only somuch you can do sitting in
Elizabeth Taylor's driveway withthis new thing called a cell
phone that was like, you know,this big and, um, and you're
trying to make phone calls andhandle stuff.
And I just, I wasn't, I, Irealized that I wasn't as
effective and, um, you know, Iwas like 22, 23, 24.

(24:55):
So, I mean, I had all my friendsfrom high school,

in.

Yeah, these guys that didn't go to college, you
know, other rejects and I mean,you know, we, and, and, and we,
um, and we, and I forgot whathappened.
Well, I know what it was.
We read this book, you know,'cause we're so smart.
Um, read we, there's two thingsthat happened.
You talk about growing yourcompany.
Um, one was that our competitorwas Harold Berkman at Music
Express.

(25:19):
And, and he would kick our asseslike all the time.
I mean, I mean, he just would,he'd get the contracts.
He was bigger, more formidable.
I mean, he was Music Express andthere was Starlight.
I mean, I was this little guydoing little rock and roll
stuff, you know, like a littlebee kind of pestering these
guys.
Um,

Ken Lucci (25:34):
But you, said you had a book.
What did you read?

oh right, right, right.
We read, we read Rogue Warrior.
He was the guy that showed theworld about Seal Team six.

Ah,

he goes chapter and verse about what training
was like in for the seals.
No one had ever knew anythingabout it before.
So this book was like this hugebestseller.
Well, we all read that book andwe figured that CLS training
needed to be just like thatbook.

Ken Lucci (25:58):
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
That's the bombshell.
That's the bombshell of thepodcast right

So you're approaching training, treating
it like a SEAL team.
Right.
We're gonna be the most elite.
We're gonna train the mostintense, by the way, Charlie,
you've just made my lifetimewith that because we've been,
we've been saying that at Packsince day one, but, but how do
you, how do you translate thatfrom a SEAL team to chauffeurs?

on a second.
You're p chauffer training,right?

Yeah.

Yeah.
That was that dude, Bruce,right?
Well, Bruce worked for me and,and what you're teaching is only
what I.

and, and there, there it is.
Right.
Bruce?
Bruce,

I am not minimizing, I'm not minimizing
the guy at all.
I love that dude.
he worked at Ritz Carlton whenmy wife worked at Ritz Carlton.
So we all learned at the sametime that not only did we wanna
be seal team, CLS, we, we wantedto be ladies and gentlemen,
serving ladies and

Ken Lucci (26:54):
That's the motto of the Ritz Carlton.
You just listen.
You just freaking nailed it.
For anybody listening in thispodcast, those two things.

we, before we got the Ritz Carlton account, which
was in 19 90, 91, 92, I married1990, we had all this, you know,
vigor from, you know.
Rock and roll rock limousinecompany, and I got that Ritz
Carlton Hotel, and when I gotthem, Ritz Carlton, marina del
Rey, and we had like 10 cars,they made us go through their
orientation and it was a mindblower for me, you know, ladies

(27:22):
and gentlemen serving, ladiesand gentlemen learning how to
own, own the complaint, learningabout lateral service, learning
about all these things that,that they spent millions of
dollars, you know, becoming toRitz Carlton.
So all we did was rip off theirorientation and put and put CLS
everywhere.
That was Ritz Carlton.
I mean, listen, they, they, theywere only too happy that we were
doing this.

Well, that's what they want.
They want you to match.
They want you to play at theirlevel.
I mean, that's the same RitzCarlton that Bruce

Ken Lucci (27:47):
but wait a minute.
Do you see the pattern here,James?
Do you see the pattern?
Bruce went through Ritz Carltontraining.
Charlie went through it.
Right?
And then I went through it asambassador after the 12, 2012
presidential conventions.
That's the basis for the, forthe chauffeur book that, but I,
I, I'm a a hundred percent, thatis the origin of success in this

(28:10):
business to me.

I had this dude named Jim Green that worked for
me, and he was a, uh, TaeKwonDo,uh, black belt.
And, uh, he's a good lookingguy.
And you know, Madonna lovedMadonna, loved him.
I mean, he was just a, a wonder,a wonderful, a wonderful driver,
a good guy.
But he was in charge of ourtraining.
He read the book.
He was a knucklehead.
And, um, we would, we'd bringthe guys to the, for interviews,
if you wanted a job with us.

(28:33):
First you had to know somebody,and the guy had, and the guy had
to vouch for you.
And then we'd, you know, theyhad come in a suit and before
we'd let you fill out theapplication, we'd play a game of
red light, green light in the,in the garage.
And, and, you know, red light,green light is, you know,
everybody lines up and you say,you know, red, you know, green
light.
And, and we see if they can payattention.
And then we'd play, Simon says,with'em.

(28:53):
And if they could get past thesetwo things, then we'd let'em
fill out the application, andthen we would see how
physically, you know, how goodthey were.
So, back in the old days, inLAX, they used to have a tunnel.
It is still there, but they hada tunnel between the terminals.
So we take it to terminal sixand we'd say, Hey, your plane
just came into terminal seven.
You can see it going, there's agate change.
You gotta get your ass overthere.

(29:14):
So we'd make'em run down thestairs through the tunnels, like
quarter mile to to the otherone.
And we get to the, the, get'emto the gate and then hand'em a
book and make'em read aparagraph of it and see if they
were gassed, see if they couldstill talk to the client.

You wanted the best of the best.
You really took the seal teamstuff seriously.
I love it.

we would do that.
It was just crazy.
And then, and then the last oneon the last day, we take'em to
the Santa Monica Pier and we get'em to, we get'em to, we get'em
to the end of that in theirsuits.
And, and Jim just like, youknow, and Jive would, would
throw a life preserver into thewater and say, Joe.
He'd say, jump gonna do, whatchagonna do, you know, and I only

(29:52):
had, I only had one or two guysjump, but mo most of, most of
them didn't.
But, you know, we were seriousabout it.
You know, we, we, we wanted tobe the best and Music Express
was the target.
And you know, I knew how much,if Harold was nice to me, he,
he'd tell me, he'd say, how muchmoney are you doing a month?
And I'd be like, oh, I'm doinglike, you know, a hundred
thousand and he'd be doing like500,000.

(30:12):
And I remember when I got to500,000 how good I felt about
the whole thing.
But um, yeah, he was our target.
And so all through the eightiesand the nineties, we get to the
nineties, we get the hotel and,um, you know, Ken, I'm trying to
answer your question in thatthere just wasn't a plan as much
as that we wanted to keepgrowing and keep doing and see
more.
Success to me was more cars, somore business mean.

(30:35):
We had to have more cars.
So more cars, more success, thebigger, you know, kind of this
vicious cycle.
And next thing you know, you'vegot 20 cars in la um, and uh, I
got an opportunity in the 1990s.
To do some business with NetJetsand with the Four Seasons
hotels.
And, um, and it just grew andgrew and grew and grew and grew.
Um, uh, when, you know, wetalked about some numbers.

(30:57):
I can remember this.
In 1990 was a million dollars ayear.
By 1995, I was doing$10 milliona year, and by 20, by the year,
20, by the year 2000, I wasdoing over 50.

But there's, there's something really
important there though, Charlie,that I think the little guys
need to hear.
And my, my father-in-law has asimilar story, right?
Started in his basement, workingin, his favorite saying is he
has an overnight success, 20years in the making.
It sounds like those first 10years, are you laying the
foundation, figuring it out, andthen you get to the nineties and

(31:29):
all of a sudden you now know howto put the rocket fuel in and
take off.
I mean, is that kind of how itwas?

we, you know, you're just, yeah, yeah.
Kind of.
I mean, like I say, I, I, I feelsilly.
I wish that I could tell youthat there was a plan.
I mean, if you talk to a guylike Bruce from Pac.
His limousine company.
I think he probably might've hada, a slight plan.
Um, you know, think about it,not that I'm really proud of it,
but I mean, like, I grew upwithout a dad in my house, you

(31:56):
know, and I'm not complaining,but like, I didn't really have
any formal training in thatarea.
So by the time I got to be 20years old and I'm driving the
likes of, you know, sting andMichael Jackson, I mean, those
are my formidable years in mytwenties.
And like, who were my teachers?
I mean, you know, I mean rockstars, I mean, so, you know, who
were you trying to emulate?
What were you trying to build?

(32:16):
I mean, if anything, we weretrying, we thought success,
success, success.
You know, I mean, you know, we,the, the, the bigger, the more
the, I mean, listen, there was atime when David Selinger met me
in New York City after I'd hada, ton of his success.
And he said, man, I, I, I lovewhat you're doing.
He goes, he goes, when, when,when do you think, you know, at
the time I was rodeoing, I wasteam roping.

(32:37):
And, um, he said, when are yougonna retire?
And just go and start teamroping,

Ken Lucci (32:40):
You were, wait a minute, back up.
You were literally team ropingon a horse.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've, I've had, I've had my prorodeo card for, you know, gosh,
25 years

Okay, so how does that happen?
Right?

You read, you read the book.
I, I, I, I was, I, well, youmight, I was reading, I was, uh,
I grew up riding horses, youknow, in West la I mean, sucked
at baseball and team sports andshit, you know, and, uh, just
horrible.
I'd be in center field, theycrack that ball.
You'd think, oh, I fly out tocenter field and just drop right
next to me every time.
Just an idiot.
But, um, but horses I couldhandle and I enjoyed it.

(33:13):
And, um, and I grew up in, youknow, in LA working at.
You know, stables and placesmucking'em out so I could go
ride stuff and learned how toacrobat a trick ride when I was
15 years old with a guy namedRudy Eckstein, who rode for
Monte Montana while I was WildWest Show in the seventies.
And, um, it wasn't until I got afair amount of success, and it
was in the late nineties that Istarted going after my friends

(33:34):
and people that were like myheroes of the, of the moment
Time Murray, tough, Heman, JimSharp, um, Cody o and uh, and
now I had the money and I hadthe success, and I had the
drive.
So I wanted to be a rodeocowboy, and they were all too
happy to take me with them.
'cause I had a golf stream andwe'd fly all over the United
States.
I mean, you know, and so David,you know, he, he sees this and

(33:57):
he is like, this guy, this guyis gonna check out.
I, I, I wanna, and, and, and youknow, in hindsight I don't say
this things went the way theywent.
And I, you know, I left and thatwas that.
But he's done a marvelous jobwith that deal.
I mean, you know, if you thinkabout it.
I just, I know we're kind ofjumping around here, but if you
think about it, you know, whenI, when I got outta jail, you
know, I'm 22 months in federalprison, as, you know, everyone

(34:19):
in the limousine industry seemsto know.
Um, and, uh, I was gratefulthat, that he was in business.
You know, I mean, empire CLS,um, is, is, uh, is my legacy.
Um, the CLS portion is anyway,and, um, and I met him recently
at, uh.
I met him recently at the limoshow, and I hadn't seen him in a
long time, and, and I sincerelythanked him.
I said, you know, th thank youfor being in business.

(34:41):
You, you legitimized me, you,you helped me every day.
Um, get past a lot of barriers.
C if people don't know me, Imean, I'm 65 years old.
I'm working for people that arein their twenties and their
thirties.
They don't know who the fuck Iam.
Um, but they do know what EmpireCLS is and, and, uh, they
absolutely know what it is, andthey, and they revere it and
they honor it, and they do thatbecause he's done such a

(35:03):
fabulous job of doing just whathe does.
You know, take him or leave himas a person.
I don't really know him thatwell.
I mean, you know, I know him forsure, but, um, I thanked him.
I mean, I was grateful,

Ken Lucci (35:14):
you know, You you, got a hell of a parallel When we
interviewed Dawson and Tammy.
I did not realize, first of all,that Dawson was a taxi driver.
But, but you remember thatpodcast where Dawson said what
was his pivotal moment, was arelationship where he, he
created a relationship with a, amagazine publisher, if I'm not

(35:35):
mistaken, that one keyrelationship introduced him to
many, many people.
So when you talk about therelationship, first of all, you
know, you, you give your, you'rereally humble because you, you,
you were detailing washing carsat a rental car place.
You decide you're gonna get intobusiness.
The first thing you do is you goand you meet the wo this woman

(35:57):
who's renting vehicles forpeople in the music industry,
okay?
First of all, every Yahoo andtheir grandmother walked through
that door trying to getbusiness, but she trusted you.
And that, see, it's, it's asimilar story to what Dawson
said, because.
Dawson was competing with, withnot competing, but yes, he was
working for Dave d he was doingsub jobs for Dave l dl.

(36:21):
Right.
And he was on a sub job for DLwhen this guy came out and
basically chose him as thechauffeur.
In your case, it was music.
So a couple things.
Number one, you gotta, you gottabuild relationships with people
that believe in you and trustyou.
You can't just walk in the doorand say, Hey, this is what I am,

(36:41):
this is who I am, what can youdo for me?
It's, they've gotta trust you.
Second of all, you both hadsomeone that was in your sights
and, and Dawson's case it wasDave L in your case it was Music
Express.
So tell me how that, tell me howthat drove you from a, to be a
better perspective.
Tell me how that drove you.

Well, you didn't know, you didn't know how to do
anything.
I mean, I mean, if you thinkabout it, I mean, you know, I
mean, you know, it was a littlemore than just picking people up
and taking'em where they had togo.
Right?
Uh, and so they were the, when Isay they were the target, I
mean, they were, they, theywere, they had systems.
They had, listen, HaroldHarold's 20 years older than
I'm, I mean, you know.

(37:23):
Yeah, totally.
He was in the best, he was inthe record business to begin
with, and then he opened up amessenger service and he was
getting so much work toStarlight Limousine that one day
he said, I should just own myown card.
So he bought one and he wasglued in.
I mean, every, the reason why Iwas able to succeed, quite
frankly, is because he stayed inthe record business.
He was getting so much businessfrom the record companies.

(37:45):
He didn't need, he didn't give ashit about the concert business.
You know, I mean, he might'vegave a shit about it if, if his
client gave a shit enough totake him with, to use him at
concerts.
But that's where I, I would, ifI could get to the, if I could
get to the client and endearmyself to them and do the rock
and roll business, then hedidn't have, he, he was out

(38:06):
because then the artists wouldtell the record company if they
were big enough to artists we'reusing Charlie, so,

That's your opening.

Ken Lucci (38:14):
Yep.

And that, and that and that.
Listen, lemme tell you somethingthat didn't hurt him at all.
I mean, it, it really didn't it,but it was, but it was an avenue
that I had that worked for meand, and, and it just worked.
I mean, it just, uh,

Ken Lucci (38:26):
that.
That you were at that.
Yep.
You were a boutique.
You were a boutique, but youunderstood what it took to, to,
to service, to serve

sure.

Ken Lucci (38:35):
1%.

Well, I was learning, I I was learning.
Believe me, it's not from notgetting your ass kicked once in
a while

Ken Lucci (38:41):
Oh, that, those, those are the life's experiences
we're gonna read about in thebook.
Uh, look, it, I, I, I think thatthe other thing, you tell me
what you think about thisstatement.
I, I think that, that the op,the one or two, or one to 10 car
operators today.
They get about 80 to 85% of themix correctly.
Okay.

(39:02):
But what the Ritz Carlton taughtus both was radar up, antenna up
radar on.
You have to be to do what you'vedone.
You have to be in tune with thatperson, right?
So that they trust you to makethe decisions that they don't
want to be bothered.
So Michael Jackson is thinkingabout his business, his his

(39:24):
career, and he's like, Charlie,take me here and take care of
this.
How do you serve the top 1% ofthe 1%?
How do you serve them?
What makes you different?

Me, um, what makes me different?

Ken Lucci (39:39):
How do you get to that level where you can serve
that many people?

You mean today

Ken Lucci (39:44):
No, back then, how did you, how did you get so many
of those guys to trust you?
I.

Oh, you know, you just, you, you, it was just the
way it was.
I said like, you don't, youdidn't have the internet to
compete with, you know, I mean,you, I mean, think about it.
You really didn't have theinternet to compete with until
what, 2007 with Zuckerberg and,

Ken Lucci (40:02):
Well, even then when we had, when we, yeah, when we
started, it was nothing.
It,

it was, it was different.
You, society was different.
We were different as a people.
I mean, you know, you carriedquarters and made phone calls or
you had a cell phone orwhatever.
But a lot of it was it, youdidn't know the world was not as
big.
The Internet's changed at all.
So you had to depend.
You have to depend on peoplethat are gonna keep delivering
for you.
And that's the same way it istoday.
You know, this lady, this ladysaid the other day, I use you

(40:29):
'cause you understandComplicated.
You know, paramount Picturesuses me at the highest levels
because.
They trust me and they say tome, we'll, we, we will give you
this premier, you know, top gunMaverick.
But will you, um, will you bethere in person?
Yes.
I'll be there in person.
Okay.
You got the job.

So that brings up a really good point because one of
the things that you've talkedabout, and it keeps coming up
over and over is.
These guys trust me, they knowme.
I'll take care of'em.
I'm there for'em.
What, I mean, how do you handlewhen something goes wrong?
Right?
Because everybody, everybody'sgreat.
You can trust me, I'll take careof you.
But I found that one of the bigdifferentiators is when stuff
goes wrong, when it hits thefan, as they like to say, you

(41:09):
know what, how do you find waysto shine?
Even in those moments?
How do you what?
What's kind of your process,

that goes back to what you, you know, you're, what
you're doing today, you know, atPax is, and, and.
A case in point this morning, Ihad a super important client,
they called me last night andthey said, Hey, you know, he is
getting picked up at the house,right?
And I said, yeah, yeah, forsure.
Thank you so much.
And this guy's super important,like big time guy.
And uh, the computer said he wasgetting picked up at the hotel

(41:35):
and she told me he was gettingpicked up at the house.
And I assumed it was the, and Iassumed it was always the house
'cause I glanced at the computerand thought it was there.
And I was so tired after dealingwith these people yesterday.
I just, there was nothing, therewas nothing about it that said,
you need to double check this.
And I didn't double check it,but thanks to the training that
we drill in these guys, hedidn't make every damn minute
his own before he got to thepickup.

(41:57):
He got there at six 15 for a 645 and announced himself and
said that he was at the hotel.
And the client said, oh my gosh,I'm at home.
And he had the 35, the 32 extra.
To get to his house.
So he got there at 6 47 and theguy made him wait for 30 minutes
anyway, but how so?
So what was the saving thing?
I, I take accountability.
I, I screwed that up.
There's the human error partthat happens and I could blame

(42:19):
my staff and go, how come youdidn't dispatch'em?
Well, they did dispatch'em andthe information was wrong.
The guy was at home.
There was a change, and theytold me about the change the
night before.
Usually in that system of thestudio, it would come down
through the studio, but itdidn't, it came more directly to
me.
But this chauffeur, Terrell, heum,

Ken Lucci (42:39):
Did the right thing.

he did the right thing because another guy, most
of these guys would sit theretill 6 45 and, and then go,
where are you?
I'm here.
Well, no, you're not here.
I'm looking out my window.
I don't see you.
Oh, I'm at the hotel.
I'm here.
Well, now, now that, that, well,that now you're toast.
And trust me, there's been, oncein a while, shit happens where,
you know, you gotta get on yourapp and get Uber out there and

(43:02):
you gotta.
You gotta, and you gotta tellthat Uber driver, Hey, you're
gonna do this for me and here'sthe situation we got.
You're gonna gimme your Zelleand I'm gonna send you a hundred
dollars right now.
And you know, and you, and you'cause,'cause it's how you
handle the service can be great.
But how do you handle bad shit?
You know?
How do you, how do you, how doyou recover?
Most guys have no recovery plan,but, or they don't even think
about it.
They go, oh well, nothing we cando now.

Ken Lucci (43:24):
No, no.
The other thing is, the otherthing is you just hit upon
something when you said thechauffeur.
The chauffeur, when he was onsite, he's like, well, you know,
I'm here 45 minutes early, 30minutes early this time is mine.
No, he announced himself and hewas able, that was the muscle
memory that he had.

Well, what I meant was is that most guys, you
know, good, the good guys willshow up early because they
anticipate it because they'veembraced this industry.
The guys that are successful arethe guys that have chauffeurs
that embrace the idea of whatthey're doing as a job.
They're not driving for you,they're operating the car for
you.
They're going to work becausethey want to be involved in
whatever your client wants.
Who am I gonna be today?
I'm gonna be with this person.

(44:03):
How am I gonna be helpful?
What can I do for them duringthe course of this journey to
make their stay wonderful?
Because I need them to call meback.
So, I mean, so those aren't theguys that look at their watch
and go, I got nine minutes andthey're still doing something,
and they know they can make itto the spot in nine minutes, and
they get there at 6 45 and hellbreaks loose because they

(44:24):
thought every minute before thepickup was theirs.
The guys that get there early.
Can adjust for shit.
And it didn't have to be thefact that I took the, I gave him
the wrong information.
It could have just been, God,would you mind stopping at
Starbucks and getting me acoffee on the way?
I mean, you know, it, it, itjust lends itself to other
things that make sense.
And, and I tell the people thatI work with on a regular basis

(44:45):
that, you know, you're part ofa, you're, you're part of a
story every time.
And, and what, what are wedoing?
And what, what's yourresponsibility in this?
Like, you know, I, when I firstgot in, when I first got back
and was doing slate services, Iwas using a mentality that I
knew more than they did, and Idid.
And I needed to get to theirdrivers because I, I discarded

(45:07):
their offices and I discardedthe relationships I had.
I just needed to deal with thedrivers.
And what I found after Covid wasthat that became a lot more
challenging and that, um.
Now everybody, what the firstthing it used to be back in the
eighties where you could say,listen, get your ass in that car
and, and, and, and get, getgoing now you motherfucker.

(45:27):
And that, and that was a term ofendearment.
And they would go, okay, bossnow.
And they'd go and you could, youknow, cuss and scream and do
whatever you needed to do.
Not today, today.

Ken Lucci (45:35):
way.

Society's changed,

Right.
Well, today, today everybody,you have to be concerned on how
everybody feels first.
So no matter how fast thebullets are flying, you call
this guy up, you gotta go, ohBob, how are you?
You know, that's nice to, thanksfor driving with me today.
I I I appreciate that.
Yeah.
Really, how long have you beenworking for this company?
And I mean, like, you know,hell's coming down on your back,
but you gotta get this guy, yougotta get'em in conversational

(45:58):
relationship first and then,

Ken Lucci (46:00):
on your side.

then you can convert'em and go, look man, I
need your help.
I need you to help me.
And.
But, so what I learned is thatnot only did I not have time to
do that with every single guywas I learned that a lot of
these operators are actuallyreally good at what they do.
And if you just, so if you'regonna use a company, you might
as well have the relationshipwith the owner who's going to
give you what I call the hack.

(46:23):
Um, I have a hack at most ofthese big companies.
I use Robert, um, Alexander atRMA in a couple of cities
because he puts me in a positionwith his guy that can let me
treat his company like it's myown or a small boutique company.
Now that doesn't mean I'm doinganything different than the
normal, other than that thedemand for my attention from the

(46:44):
client is so instantaneous.
I can't deal with the normalwaking hours of what you make up
about what?
Five star services that you openup at nine, that you're end at
five.
You say you're a 24 hourservice, but can you get me a
car at two o'clock in themorning?
I need the, I need RMAs guy.
I need the hack.
And so I

You need to plug in.
You need to be connected

Ken Lucci (47:02):
You need to short circuit when the

and.

Ken Lucci (47:04):
the fan,

When the shit is hitting the fan, or even when
it's not hitting the fan, thesedrivers won't take phone calls.
You know, they'll be driving andthey'll go, I didn't wanna
disturb the client.
Go, I am the client.
I go, he's the variable in theback and the information that I
need to give you is important.
Well, that's too muchconversation.
Better just to go to a guy likeDave Elle and say, do me a
favor.
I need to get a hold of this guyright now and tell him this.
Or go talk to his girl, Marlene,or talk to Olga at Glide or

(47:28):
whoever you're doing businesswith, you know?
Um, they have a betterrelationship with the drivers
and can get them on.
The driver is gonna answer thephone call from the company
every time.
So you gotta have the guy thatyou can deal with, that you can
get the best performance out ofthe driver from his own company.
That's the art.
That's what you need done.
So I say, are there goodcompanies out there?
Yeah.
You know, there, there'sfabulous guys out there and I've

(47:51):
noticed in the last seven yearsthat they're just getting
better.
Um, there's a whole, there's awhole group of younger players.
Nah, I'm not a racist or nothinglike that.
But I mean, there's a lot ofIndians out there that, you
know, are finding that maybe,maybe they're all doctors and
lawyers from wherever they comefrom, but when they get here,
this country doesn't honor thatship.

(48:11):
So they gotta do something else.
And they become limo operators.
And you know what?
They're damn good limo operatorsand they care and they do a good
business.
And pricing is, you know, isgood.
But they're, you know, they'reinsured and, and we develop them
as, we work with a guy likeRobert at RMA, I mean, his guys
are fabulous.
You know, there's a lot of goodpeople out there.
I use Windy City in Chicago, andI'm not just trying to pitch'em.

(48:34):
They're good at what they do.
They good, what they do and,and, and they allow me to.
Work at a level where I needthem to pay much more attention.
Listen, I got clients where theyget picked up at the airport and
the drivers have to know wherethe nearest hospitals are at
different places in case there'ssome draconian event.
We don't get outta the cars.
The cars stay lit the wholetime.

(48:56):
There's always somebody in thecar during a show in case of an
evac.
No one thinks like that.
I mean, we're, we ha we needthese guys to work with us and
be part of our team.
And gratefully, most people dowanna work with us and, and
they, and they enjoy the workand they think, listen.
I had a guy the other day, hedrove Sting for me and he said,
he is a nice guy.
And he said to me, um, he goes,I'm so grateful to get to drive

(49:18):
this guy.
He said, now he'll be the most,he'll be the most famous person
I've ever driven.
Instead of Joan Rivers and, and.

Ken Lucci (49:26):
right, right.

But, but there's this awesome through line that
you've created for us, right?
Because you talk about, you readthis book, right?
You read the Rogue Warrior book,you say, Hey, I need to do seal
team training.
Then you get super intense onwho you're gonna hire.
I gotta make sure he is theright guy.
I, I'm, we're not gonna hire anyJoe Blow.
I'm not gonna take the bottom ofthe barrel.

(49:47):
And, and you had fun with ittoo, right?
You're younger, you're havingfun with it.
You really get serious about whoyou're hiring.
You really get serious about whoyou're training, what's awesome,
right?
And you kind of said you haveyour first and second act.
You do that in that first act.
Now in the second act at SlaveServices, you figured out that
process works and now you'reapplying that same idea of

(50:09):
vetting and making sure the bestand making sure the training's
there, that same formula thatworked.
Then you've reconfigured it tocontinue using it in the second
act.
And it sounds like it's a big, Imean, as a training guy, I love
this because this really speaksto where I live of if you take
the time to do the training tolearn to be the best, to
continually push, it's there.

(50:31):
But it really seems like foryou, that's been part of the
success then, and it's still akey part of the success now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Man.
A hundred percent.
It, it, you know, I tell peopleall the time, it's training,
training, training, training,training.
I mean, you know, you can be acab driver in Las Vegas and
teach those guys how to drivebetter than they do.
You know?
I mean, you know, you can be,you can be, training's a big
thing.
I I'm, people ask me, you know,what's the most important thing
I always say to'em, and I pushPax quite a bit.

(51:01):
I'm like, you know, I go, youguys, I go, we, we definitely
need to budget for that if we'regonna buy a company, if we're
gonna do something like that.
And, you know, I've, I've triedto buy a bunch of things and I
can't seem to get it done.
They're, they're, they're hardto do.

Ken Lucci (51:13):
will at some point, Charlie, if that's what you
want.

yeah.
Right.

Ken Lucci (51:16):
But listen, you know, it, it's a, the parallels I see
of the really successfuloperators is 100% creating the
most important relationships youcan in your market.
I don't care what your marketis.
Okay?
I mean, listen, we have Morgan,and Morgan is a client I cold
called John Morgan.
I cold called the Yankees.

(51:37):
I called, called Steiner, youknow, way back in the day.
So, and at the, and, and.
People think, okay, well I'mjust gonna spend$3,500 a month
on PPC and man is gonna reignfrom heaven.
It doesn't work that way.
You have, you have to createthose relationships.
And to me, the relationships arenot about what those people can

(51:59):
do for me.
It's what I'm gonna do for them.
And they all trust you becauseyou know the funny thing about
the 1%?
The 1% of the 1%, they can spota charlatan faster than anybody.

You know, I, I dunno if you got time for this,
but I'll tell you a storythat'll make you guys laugh.
It's actually pretty funny ifyou wanna hear it.

Ken Lucci (52:17):
Yes, please.

time for

Ken Lucci (52:19):
We

I I get mo Most recently I got a, uh, last, not
the Super Bowl, but the onebefore I got, I got an
opportunity to drive theChairman of Live Nation to the
Super Bowl in, um, Las Vegas.
And, uh, you know, wow.
Hey, live Nation, right?
You know, this is, and it wasreferred by a close friend of
his, and you know, I'm gonna dothis.
So I pick him up and I get tothe stadium and, uh, you know, I

(52:41):
got a simple rule and the ruleI've always had is that the
chauffeur should never leave thecar.
I.
That, that, that, that's,that's, that's my rule.
I, I don't care if you'refriends with him.
I don't care if he invite youin.
You know, you shouldn't goanyway.
I mean, like, you know, youshould just stay with the car,
stay with the car no matterwhat, you know, and it might put
you in a weird situation to haveto say to the client, gosh, I'm
really sorry.
I really, I hate to turn downthis, you know, for whatever

(53:04):
1200 dinner you're gonna gimme.
Um, but I need to stay with thecar.
So he gets outta the car and Istay with the car until his guy
walks back by the car and says,Hey Charlie.
He goes, I have an extra passhere, the Super Bowl to our
event.
He goes, maybe it would be agood idea if you came with us.
'cause there's gonna be like50,000 people trying to get
outta here.
And he's with his wife and hisfamily, and his children and his

(53:25):
father.
So I make a fatal mistake and Idecided, I said, I'm, I'm gonna
go because I now's some nobilityin it.
I, I can't, I walk through a lotof crowds.
I've been doing this a longtime.
I know how to get people fromplace to place.
'cause that's what we do.

Ken Lucci (53:39):
Sure.

I go and I see the game and it's fun, super
cool, and it breaks.
And I got his family and we'regoing like Sam, like, you know,
salmon against the stream orwhatever, trying to get, get to
the car.
And we get to the car and thecar's dead.

Oh no.

And the reason why the car's dead is because
somehow inadvertently when I wasgetting outta the car, my elbow
hit the button on the Cadillacon the center there and it
turned on.
And you know, it's not like theold days where everybody knew
who I was or they knew who thecar was or anything.
And uh, they sat there andwatched it go, you know, Hong
Kong honk, honk until it'sanymore and it was dead.

(54:15):
So what do you do man?
Makes me, makes me sweaty justthinking about that moment.
And, uh, so I'm sitting therewith, you know, the chairman of
Live Nation.
That's my only opportunity totry to make this guy a client.
And I'm locked outta my car atthe Super Bowl.
What do you think the chances ofgetting another car is at the
Super Bowl?
So, you know, while we're kindof taking it in that were hosed.
I call another driver that,fortunately had told me that he

(54:37):
had just dropped off that fellowthat ran Google, um, I forgot
what his name was.
Um, anyway, and he dropped himoff.
He didn't want to go to thegame.
He gets on his jet, he leaves,and I go, man, where are you?
And he goes, I'm what turns outto be about maybe a quarter of a
mile away, and it's pandemoniumin people.
So I get myself resigned tomyself that in the worst case

(54:57):
scenario, I'm gonna walk thesepeople to that car.
I'm gonna, I, I'm gonna figureout how

you gotta figure out how to fix

I'm, I'm gonna figure out how to fix it.
Well, one of the ways I figuredout how to fix it was I looked
over there and there was a rockright near there.
And so I thought, I'll just putthis brick through the window
and I'll open up the car and atleast he'll be able to get his
luggage outta the car, which iswhat he wanted.
Well, I'm about to break thewindow and he says, wait a
minute, wait a minute.
He goes.
Um, and I,'cause I had the keyfob in my hand and he goes, no,

(55:25):
no, no.
And it didn't seem to work Well,apparently Cadillac didn't make
it that easy.
You gotta turn it one way, thenanother way in a different way.
Well, instead of becoming morethe part of the problem and
having this guy beat me to deathin front of his family, he
becomes part of the solution,the chairman of Live Nation, and
he's googling it for me andwe're like, tick to tick to, and
we get the door open,

Okay.

the hood, try to get a jump from those guys
waiting on somebody else.

Ken Lucci (55:51):
Yeah.

Didn't happen.
And, and, and this is, and thiswhole story I'm telling you all
happened within a time, thecompletion of the story takes 14
minutes.
The whole thing I.

Probably felt like years, didn't it?

Can't get it started.
I got the guy in foot, I got hisbags and I gotta get him outta
there.
And I look up and I see a carleaving a normal car, a small
issue guy leaving the parkinglot.
And I go, hang on.
And I run over to this randomperson and it's this nice lady
and she's driving the car and Igo, I really need your help.
I'm really in a bad way.
I need you to help me take thesepeople with their children off

(56:27):
this driveway and I need you totake us just over to that hotel
right over there.
And she goes, of course.
Thank you so much.
Of course cop in.
So we get everybody in the car.
And of course the client says,any reason why she can't just
take us back to the wind.
You know, I mean, we're all inthe car.
And I, and I looked at him and Isaid, and I go, no, sir, that
wouldn't be safe.
I go, we're, we're, we're goingto, we're gonna go right over

(56:49):
here and there's another carbehind this building waiting for
us.

Okay.

Ken Lucci (56:54):
Right.

so we get there, people getting scared now, and
we're over there by Russell andthe, and it's crazy.
Lots of people.
And now that we go from the safecar, I go, okay, we need to get
outta the car.
And they're like, I go now, now,sir.
We need to get outta the car.
And we get him outta the car andI'm walking his people through
this parking lot into thestreet, praying and hoping that
Barett is there.
And he is.
And I put him in the car andthey, and, and thanks Charlie.

(57:17):
And they drive away.
And, um, I worry about gettingin my car and I call his
assistant and I tell her whathappened and I'm thinking I'm
dead.
And she goes, oh, you know,nobody called me.
She goes, okay, so is he in themorning?
And I go, yeah, sure.
So I, I get there in the morningand he gets in the car with his
family and he goes, Charlie, hegoes, is this the same car?
And I go, yeah.
And he goes, how'd you get it?
And I told him that my wifecame, you know, with a jumper

(57:38):
box and we got it.
We got it fixed up.
And he says, you know, I heardan interesting story about you.
He says, and, and his wife goes,yo, he is friends with Jonathan.
And she, and he says, no, tellme your story.
So now I gotta tell him thestory in the ride, like, you
know, to the airport.
And we get to the plane,everyone's waiting, the jet's
all fired up, it's net jets,right?
And they're just about to openthe door and he grabs the door
and he goes, no, no, don't stop.

(58:01):
Tell me the rest of your story.
I tell him the rest of the storyand he goes, that's amazing.
You're my guy.
I'll see you next time.
And he saw the car and he getsin the jet and that was the

And, and he is holding up the jet because he
wants the rest of the story.
Right.
I mean, that's the type of,when, when you're dealing with
people that are at that level, Imean they, everybody has to wait
for him.

Ken Lucci (58:18):
Listen, you know?

I gotta wear the donkey hat for, for a while.

Ken Lucci (58:21):
Yeah.
But think about that.
Think about that.
That could have gone completelythe other way on you.
But you Unbelievableresourceful.
Unbelievably resourceful.

with me, it was never gonna go any worse than,
than I envisioned in my, and theonly thing I envisioned was that
now we were on a catastrophicfailure and I needed to get this
guy and his family safely backto the hotel expeditiously at
any means, at any meanspossible.
That's not what you're gonnaget.
If you call, I don't know,another limousine company, bless

(58:50):
his, I love Tony down there atNorth Point.
I've been using him for 40years, but I mean, I don't, he
might, you know, no

Ken Lucci (58:57):
the resourcefulness that you've learned

He would've had another car there probably,
right?
He would've, he would've, hefigured it out because he's that
old school mentality.
But in the heat of Battle, man,I made the decisions I had to
make.

Ken Lucci (59:09):
it's true.

Gonna get it done or die trying.

I was, I was, I was grateful to keep the
business

Ken Lucci (59:15):
Look, you know, and I, the message I would have for
every operator is everybodywants the person right, that
they can call that they knowit's going to get taken care of.
And I do think that that'smissing with some operators.
They don't understand it.
They don't understand

you know,

Ken Lucci (59:31):
an anticipation.
Right.
Resilience totally there with aservitude mentality.
And, and I will say this aboutcertain generation.
Look, I went to private school,I went to private college.
I come from a relatively well todo background.
The servitude mentality wastaught to me by George

(59:56):
Steinbrenner and his son Hank.
Okay?
And it was not, it was nobility.
It was the service of nobility.
It wasn't.
There.
This is my butler Ken, or mychauffeur Ken.
This is my guy.
He takes care of everything.
That's what it came down to.
You could do that with lawyers,you could do that with doctors.
The key is to be with pre peoplethat appreciate you doing that,

(01:00:19):
that appreciate the servitudementality.
There's absolutely nothing wrongwith being a s There's nothing
wrong with having a servitudementality.
The Ritz Carlton taught me that.
I mean, the Ritz Carlton, I tellthis story last time, the Ritz
Carlton, Pentagon City.
The absolute best experience Iever, ever had in my life was at
the back of the day when I was31 years old.

(01:00:40):
I was going out with the21-year-old girl and she was a
his that had nothing to Yes.
Um, she was a history buff.
So long story short, we stay atthe, we stay at the pit Ritz
Carlton, Pentagon City.
Okay.
And this guy, the conciergesurge surged.
The concierge treated us likekings.
What happens?

(01:01:00):
I go back there about six weeksago.
Surge is still there.
I said, Serge, you're not gonnaremember this.
I looked, I was a different manback in the day, but I, I mean,
I, I, I mean 29 years ago,Serge, you took care of us when
I was there.
And he co didn't remember meback then, but I filled, but I
filled in the gap and I said,you don't understand something.

(01:01:23):
I've met a, a, I've met 50concierge or during, over the,
over that period, and I don'tknow who any of them are.
Okay.
But this guy made such animpression on me.
And that's what you do everyday.
And I think people in ourindustry, especially because
we're trying quote, to competewith the TNCs, no we're not.

(01:01:45):
Right?
'cause they can't logisticallydo what you do.
They're missing the fact that,that what people want when they
hire our service is to know thatthey are being served.
They are have a servantmentality.
When, when, when somebody's inthe back seat and they're
looking like this and you, andyou hand them a pen, okay?
They know that you anticipatedthe move when you go into a car

(01:02:08):
and, and you are looking atyour, your phone.
Okay.
And they're like, Mr.
Lucci, would you like a charger?
I mean, that's just literallyanticipating the service, but
also what you just said isanticipating the next steps and
holy shit, what happens ifsomething goes wrong?
You'd have just called the baseand say, ah, the car's died.

(01:02:28):
Right.
You, you, you, you've got ittaken care of.
So Charlie, when is, when is thebook coming out, by the way?

Charlie Horky (01:02:35):
That's a good question.
Um, I, I just went in there andchanged the names.
Um, you know, the famous people,I didn't change their names
'cause it, it didn't matter.
Um, a lot of'em were dead.
Um, uh, well, it just wouldn'tmatter.
I didn't say anything about'em,but like, just, just points in
my life, you know, when I gotdivorced and, you know, and I
hooked up with someone else, I,I didn't need to drag those

(01:02:56):
people through through this dealname, you know?
I mean, there's no, you know, I,I, I got more respect than that
for all of them.
Um.
Yeah, it should come out.
Um, I don't know.
It could come out, I, I don'tknow how long it takes.
We're right at the point nowwhere like, we're just finishing
the editing, got the book coverand they gotta put it together
and then, and then, and

Ken Lucci (01:03:18):
But you're settled.
You are settled on the namebeing Unbreakable Path.

you know, I'm not settled on the name.
We're trying to think of a bunchof names to that

James Blain (01:03:26):
That's a pretty solid

Ken Lucci (01:03:27):
I like that.
Look, look, don't lose thetagline.
The tagline of of the story ofloss, resilience and the pursuit
of greatness is pretty, that's apretty, it's, it's a pretty

Well, I think, I think, you know, I think, I
think I do that, you know, in,in, in my day-to-day stuff, I
think the clientele that I servespeaks for itself.
I mean, you know, I mean, I, I,I, I, I, everybody has a
billionaire'cause there's,there's lots of billionaires
and, you know, people havecelebrity.
And my, my story would not benear as, near as interesting if
I had, uh, had the same story.

(01:03:58):
But I, I had a limousine companyin Iowa or Kansas.
Um.

Ken Lucci (01:04:02):
Right, Right,

hey.
Hey.
Nothing wrong with Kansas.

nothing wrong with, you know,

Ken Lucci (01:04:07):
But your continued pursuit of excellence

those guys are, those guys are awesome
operators, you know, um, and,and they're successful and I'm
sure they, in their area, theyhave their, their excitement,
but there's nothing quite likerock and roll or, or celebrity.
Um, and, you know, and I, I'm,I'm grateful to work in this
industry.
I'm, I, I'm happy to, and like Isay, I, I, I, you know, the

(01:04:30):
problem with my business is thatit's probably not scalable only
because it's so damn Charliecentric.
Um, what, what, you know, toteach some, like if God forbid I
drop dead, you know, I hopethat, you know, my son with, you
know, Megan, Andrew can pick upmy cell phone and figure it out,
you know?
But, but I mean, but, but I'mdoing other stuff now, you know,
and I meant to clarify for you,uh, my wife phone's, um.

Ken Lucci (01:04:52):
Sure.

IT services.
Um, you know, when, when you getconvicted of crimes against
banks and financialinstitutions, it's hard to get
anything done.
You know, I mean, and, and I'vehad everything there is to have
and I've had my name oneverything.
And you know, when, when you gotyour name on a document that
says United States of Americaversus Charles Joseph.
Four I.
Third, you figure you've hadyour name on enough shit.

(01:05:13):
You know what I mean?
I mean, you know, I, I, I knowhow I live a nice life and I'm,
I'm, I'm blessed and, and awonderful family, and I get to
work in something, a businessevery day that I enjoy, that I
really, really enjoy.
And the people like that.
I participate with them.
So like what I like more do Iwish I had, you know, do I wish
I was Chris Huntley, you know,who recently sold his company
and is retiring or bought, or,or Dawson?

(01:05:35):
I mean, you know, Dawson doesn'thave to work.
I mean, he says that he, youknow, he likes to run his
company.
That's nonsense.
Dawson's a big man.

Ken Lucci (01:05:41):
Well, we all know that Tammy runs the company, so

God, God bless him.
You know?
Right.
Exactly.
But, um, you know, a lot ofthese guys have done well over
the years and I admire them and,and I'm in awe of the success
that every one of them has done.
But I, I'm very grateful to, tohave the life I have today
because none of it has to dowith money.
It, it all has to do with justmy personal wellness and, and
where I am in the world.
I'm quite happy.
I'm very blessed.

(01:06:04):
My wife is, is wonderful to me.

Well, and as we kind of close out the episode
and kind of bring things allback together.
You know what would be the onething, right?
We've got operators of all kindsof sizes, right?
Everybody in the businesslistening.
What's the one piece that you'dwanna leave them with as we
close out?
What was the one big lesson ortakeaway

You mean from this conversation?

Ken Lucci (01:06:25):
no

or from life?
I mean, obviously don't,obviously by the book is one of
the biggest lessons, and as soonas that's released, we'll we'll
have you back on and talk aboutit, but, but what would be the
big thing that you would tellthem, or even if you got to go
back and talk to your20-year-old self, what would you
tell him?

you know, there's lots of ways to do business.
I just wanna do it the rightway.
You know, it's, um, you know, I,I find that each and every day
that if I just deal with what'sright in front of me and not try
to go over it or under it, oraround it, or think I can do
better or will it through adifferent way.
Sure, we all know lots of peopleto get it done, but, um, if I
just deal with what's right infront of me, everything seems to

(01:07:04):
work out just fine.
You know, it's just, uh, youknow, and, and, uh, you know,
you just try, try to be the bestyou can be.
You know?
I mean, ha ha have a open, uh.
You, you gotta, you gotta keepyour, when I was riding horses,
when I was a kid, they used tosay, you know, the best riders
kept their eyes open and theirmouth shut.
And, and it's the same thingtoday, you know, it is, you just
gotta work hard.

(01:07:24):
Keep your mouth, keep your mouthshut, and your eyes open, your
ears open and just go to workevery day.
And, and, and I like what youdo.
I, I, I love what I do.
I mean, I, I, I have a greattime doing it.
I'm, I'm thrilled by it everyday, you know, it's a.

Ken Lucci (01:07:36):
I don't know how you can be in this business and not
love it and not have a passionfor it.
I don't believe I, I don'tbelieve you can fake this
business because I've seenpeople with absolutely gorgeous
pieces of beautiful fleets,gorgeous, gorgeous vehicles.
They, they absolutely have noclue about how to take care of

(01:07:57):
people.
And they're like, why am I notsuccessful?
Okay.
They think it's too good forthem to go out and cold call, or
they think it's too good forthem.
They're at a certain stage wherethey won't go out and run a
group or meeting.
To me, this business everysingle day is about the blocking
the tackling.
And tha you know, I've, thecommonalities to me are the Ritz

(01:08:18):
Carlton, the relationships thatyou've created and this Seal
Team six thing, you are ontosomething with that
regimentation.

Yeah, it was pretty funny.
But Joe, you gotta, you gottahave a good team and you build a
team along the way, you know?
And like, I got a great teamnow.
You know, I, my, uh, my, my guysare, uh, a group of people that
are, that have been with me forabout five years outta Pakistan.
And, uh, I, you know, economeconomies of scale.
Yeah, it, it, I, it would bedifficult to duplicate what I
have in those guys in the UnitedStates, wages here in the United

(01:08:48):
States, but I've got a greatteam.
They're really, really good atwhat they do, and the clients
trust them.
I mean, I shouldn't look at themas being, you know, any
different than the rest of us.
I've got a good team that myclients trust and, and we
deliver day in and day out and,and it's oversight, you know,
it's oversight and managementand tweaking and doing and this
and that.
And, you know, some days aren'tboring and some days are, some

(01:09:08):
days things get screwed up.
But if you have a zero tolerancefor failure, well then that's a
pretty high place to, to achievea zero tolerance for failure.
Some people say, well, the hotdogs are cold once in a while,
you know, it's a servicebusiness, but

but it's what you do.
What I, I think the lessonthere, and you've, you've
already talked about it.
We've hit on it.
You know, the mentality of,well, we're gonna screw up
sometimes, or the hot dog'sgonna be cold.
I would, I would challenge thatwith, it's not about whether or
not you're gonna mess

Ken Lucci (01:09:39):
It is the

human.
It's the recovery.
You're on it, Ken.
I mean, and, and you talkedabout that you were, you were
gonna get him outta the SuperBowl, or you're gonna die trying
you.
There are so many times that Ihear operators that, you know,
Hey, the, there's nothing we cando.
We can't get anybody there.
You should call an Uber.
You should do this.
Well, no, I shouldn't do shit.
Right?

(01:09:59):
And, you know, we'll bleep thatass the first time I've ever
said that.
But look, I'm trying to make apoint here of your whole goal is
to take care of this person.
Your whole goal, like you said,is to create this experience.
And one of the favorite quoteswe have at PAX is, you know,
Maya Angelou said, they'llforget what you said.

(01:10:20):
They'll forget what you did.
They're never gonna forget howyou made

Ken Lucci (01:10:23):
them feel.
Yep.
And the zero tolerance forfailure is absolutely Charlie's
mantra.
Guys, that's a great spot toleave it out.
I can't think of a better oneother than you need to text me
when you have a publishing datebecause we're going to rock this
book again.
And I think the nextconversation, the, it's totally,

(01:10:44):
we're gonna have to, we're gonnaread the book and we're to talk
about life stories because oneof the most thing important
things to me about you.
Is the private conversations youand I have had and how you've
rose back from what would'vekilled most people, and we share
a commonality in that.
You know what I'm talking about,and it would've killed most

(01:11:05):
people, and you really did agreat job.

eh, you know, I.
You know, when they had theirfoot on my neck, they figured I
wasn't that bad.
So they let me back up.
You know, I mean, it, you know,some people they just keep the
pressure up'cause they're dirtypeople, but

Ken Lucci (01:11:21):
Absolutely.

they're rotten.
But no, I, I, I've been, I thinkI've been a pretty good guy,

Thanks again, Charlie.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to

(01:11:47):
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.

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