In this episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast, host Ken Lucci from Driving Transactions sits down with sales industry icon Julie Thomas, author of 'The Power of Value Selling: The Gold Standard for Driving Revenue and Creating Customers for Life.'
Explore the principles of value selling and learn how to differentiate your services by focusing on the unique needs of your customers rather than just price. Julie shares her extensive experience and provides actionable insights on cultivating customer loyalty, the importance of asking the right questions, and how to maximize the lifetime value of your customers. Whether you're a small fleet operator or managing a larger team of chauffeurs, this episode offers methods to enhance your sales approach and drive business growth.
00:00 Welcome
03:30 Background
06:42 Value Selling
09:46 The Language of Value
10:57 Foundations of the Program
15:14 First Appointment is About Buyer's Needs
16:06 Do the Basic Client Research Beforehand
19:41 Everybody's A Salesperson
20:57 Rosetta Stone
24:20 "Yeah,But," Syndrome
28:53 Profitable Companies are Tough Business
33:16 Positive Developmental Feedback
42:34 Justifying Emotional Decisions Logically
44:54 Lead With Price and You Lose
47:39 Land and Expand
52:49 Chatbots
57:18 Learn New Skills Despite the Noise of your Business
01:01:38 Wrapping Up
https://www.linkedin.com/in/julieathomas/
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Value-Selling-Standard-Customers/dp/1394182562
https://www.valueselling.com
https://www.growist.com
At Driving Transactions, Ken Lucci and his team offer financial analysis, KPI reviews, for specific purposes like improving profitability, enhancing the value of the enterprise business planning and buying and selling companies. So if you have any of those needs, please give us a call or check us out at www.drivingtransactions.com.
Pax Training is your all in one solution designed to elevate your team's skills, boost passenger satisfaction, and keep your business ahead of the curve. Learn more at www.paxtraining.com/gtp
Connect with Kenneth Lucci, Principle Analyst at Driving Transactions:
https://www.drivingtransactions.com/
Connect with James Blain, President at PAX Training:
https://paxtraining.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ken Lucci (00:25):
And welcome everybody to the Ground Transportation
Podcast.
Another exciting episode.
That means it's a Friday.
Um, I don't know which Fridayit's gonna be when John John
drops this, but it's a Fridayand this is the best day of the
week for me because I don't haveto talk finance, deal with
buyers and sellers.
I can have a little bit of fun.
Um, my name is Ken Lucci fromDriving Transactions.
(00:47):
my cohort, James Blaine from PAXTraining is, uh, out training
somebody somewhere.
Um, so I am blessed today to,um, be, uh, interviewing a true
icon in the sales industry,sales training industry.
Uh, Julie Thomas.
Um, she wrote the book, and I'mgonna hold it up, even though
(01:08):
podcast people can't see it, butYouTube people will be, uh, the
power of value selling.
And she, uh, to me, uh, afterreading this book,'cause you
know, a lot of people put outbooks, but after this reading
this book, she's a true subjectmatter expert.
At the practice of selling valueover just selling low price and
(01:29):
how to differentiate yourcompany and how to differentiate
any product you sell, anyservice you sell to sell the
true value of what you bring tothe table.
And I, Julie, I am so happy tohave you.
Um, I, I read a lot and I amblessed, uh, when, when I'm able
to connect with an author and,uh, you are, you are truly an
(01:52):
icon at what you do.
And, and people can't see thebook, but I will tell you in
the, the, the, the name of thebook again is the Gold Standard,
uh, the Power of Value Sellingthe Gold Standard to drive
revenue and create Customers forLife.
And when you, when you get thebook and you look in the front
of the book, the first few pagesand the back jacket are praises
(02:14):
of this book from businessleaders who frankly are the
who's who.
Of US corporations, us big, uh,US co best and biggest
companies, as well asuniversities around the country.
So congratulations on the book.
Um, what you preach to ouraudience.
This is why I wanted you to comeon.
(02:36):
What you preach is what ourindustry needs.
Uh, it's so much, it's soimportant.
It's as Im important to me asthe fuel we put in our vehicles.
What you teach is what everybusiness owner of a private
transportation company should bedoing to train their staff on a
daily basis.
So I am absolutely thrilledbeyond belief to, to have you
(02:56):
here.
Before we get into the kind ofthe mechanics or nuts and bolts
of how to sell value, uh, JulieThomas, please tell us about
your career and tell us aboutyour company Value Selling
Associates.
Julie Thomas (03:08):
Awesome.
Well, Kent, thank you so much.
That was a nice lead up.
I hope you haven't oversold, uh,this conversation in any way.
Um, but I, I appreciate theendorsement for the book, for
our methodology and for ourapproach.
Um, and, um, and thanks for theopportunity to, to meet your
(03:28):
audience today.
Um, I, I started out in finance,um, when I first graduated from
college, and quickly realized,eh, this is not really what I
wanna be doing.
And so I ended up getting a, in,um, entry level inside sales job
(03:51):
for, at the time, kind of astartup research company on the
east coast.
That company, um, is now a$5billion leader in their industry
and goes by the name of Gartner.
And, uh, when I was at Gartner,I really, I learned so much.
(04:13):
We were moving so fast.
Um, and I also rode, rode thatgrowth and was promoted, um,
repeatedly in the 16 years thatI spent there, starting in an
entry level sales job, ending asa group vice president where I
was running all of talentdevelopment, onboarding, sales,
(04:36):
training for the entire globalsales organization at the time.
Ken Lucci (04:41):
and Gardner, so everybody knows is you, that you
sell research, you sell the ex,you sell the expertise of
creating data, research.
It's a service.
I mean, it's an intangible.
Julie Thomas (04:55):
Oh, absolutely.
It's a, um, our primary product.
Their primary product still issyndicated research by industry
analysts package up for the ITprofessional.
So think of it as consumerreports on steroids.
Um, that gives you insight intowhat you should be buying, what
(05:18):
you should be spending on it,how you should architect your IT
infrastructure.
And that's a grossoversimplification of what they
do, but they really help the endusers deploy, manage, and
exploit technology to achievetheir business outcomes and
business goals.
Ken Lucci (05:36):
So how long you, were you with Gardner?
Julie Thomas (05:38):
I was there for 16 years.
Ken Lucci (05:40):
Wow.
For you?
Entry level all the way up tobasically the head of global
sales.
Julie Thomas (05:45):
gr um, global sales training.
So I,
Ken Lucci (05:48):
Gotcha.
Good.
Beautiful.
Julie Thomas (05:50):
to a group vice president in global sales
training when I exited thecompany and joined our supplier
Value selling associates, um, atthe time, and then ultimately
became the leader of thisorganization.
Ken Lucci (06:06):
So tell us about value selling.
Julie Thomas (06:08):
So value selling, um, really was born, um, the
founder was X-I-B-M-X.
Xerox had gone through a lot ofsales training and over his
career had recognized that therewas some gaps that, um, that he
discovered in sales.
And he went out on his own andcreated the value selling
(06:32):
framework.
and then we, my boss hired him.
At Gartner.
And so I was introduced to it.
So it was really the fuel of mycareer.
Value selling is a salesapproach.
It's a framework of how youstructure conversations to be
much more deliberate andintentional for the outcomes
(06:55):
that you want, which is toqualify an op, create an
opportunity, qualify thatopportunity, advance it, and
close it.
And we historically have workedwith business to business sales
teams that are trying to competeon value.
So they are not trying to be thelow cost provider in their
(07:16):
space.
And, and we have some fabulouscompanies that have used us over
the years from salesforce.com toAdobe, to Motorola, to Google.
and just to name a few, um, aswell as companies not in
technology like thermal, um,scientific and Cardinal Health
(07:38):
and various, um, companies in amultitude of industries that are
selling business to business.
And they come to us becausethey're sales people might be
struggling.
Maybe they're struggling to gainaccess to the right people.
Maybe they're struggling todifferentiate their solution so
they can command a premium priceor a higher price.
(08:01):
Or maybe they're just strugglingto close their pipeline, um, and
they want their salespeopleengaging with their prospects
differently.
A couple of years ago, um, I, Iasked myself, gosh, we work with
all these companies.
what about the individual salesreps that are out there, the
(08:22):
solopreneurs, the entrepreneurs,the businesses that might have
one or two salespeople butaren't the full enterprise?
Ken Lucci (08:30):
Yeah.
The small business people whodepend on sales every day but
don't do it, right?
Correct.
Julie Thomas (08:35):
Well, absolutely because most of the, the
entrepreneurs out there areentrepreneurs because they're
good at something.
They're, they love cars andthey're good at driving.
They're good at managing afleet, they're good at
logistics, they're good at thosethings.
And it's not that they're notgood at sales, they've just
never been taught how to
Ken Lucci (08:55):
Correct.
Julie Thomas (08:56):
So they show up and have conversations.
Um, and those conversationsmight not always be serving them
as well as they would like.
So we actually took everythingwe do at the corporate level and
packaged it up for theentrepreneur individual.
Who might be, um, strugglingwith sales or wondering why they
(09:19):
have a great first meeting, butthen nobody ever calls them back
or wondering why they're gettingobjections on price, um, because
the customer just doesn't getit.
I hear, I hear that, uh, lastweek from a prospect that said,
you know, I go in and I do allhave all these conversations and
(09:39):
the customer just doesn't getit.
So they're not willing to, topay.
Ken Lucci (09:42):
Well, because you, they're not speaking the
language of value.
Right.
Julie Thomas (09:46):
They're not speaking the language of, of
value.
And, and more importantly,they're typically leading with
product.
Let me tell you what I do andhow I do it and why it's great,
and not connecting that to theneeds or the desires of the
person that they're selling to.
Ken Lucci (10:02):
yep.
What brought us here today andwhat problem am I solve solving?
What did you do before today?
Right?
How did they fail you and howcan I do better?
in a prior life, I was in thehome security business and I, I
sup, this is when I was a much,much younger, handsome man.
Well, maybe younger anyway, andI supervised 120 salespeople in
(10:22):
the Southeast.
And, and I always preach thefact that, you know, selling low
prices is the laziest thing inthe world.
it is.
Anybody can sell low price andyou're not building any customer
loyalty there.
So what I love about what you dois you package a program.
Typically only a Fortune 100,fortune 500 company could afford
(10:44):
to pay somebody like you to comein and implement, and you put it
into something that's easy toimplement.
So tell, tell us about theprogram and then go into kind of
the specifics that someone wouldlearn,
Julie Thomas (10:56):
Sure.
Um, so the program is built onthe foundation of this, you
know, award-winning methodologythat we have sold for years to,
to businesses.
And you're right, the way wepackage it for a company, um,
would not be, cost effective.
(11:16):
Uh, I, I wouldn't even be ableto tell a really small business
or a solo entrepreneur.
To buy it the way we package itfor the corporation.
So, so, but we took everythingwe do and looked at the entire
revenue cycle of your company,for example.
So you've got the, the findingthe prospects, tweaking the
(11:39):
messages, gaining access,creating opportunities, closing
opportunities, and then turningthat into customers for life.
Most of the people that I workwith don't wanna sell you
something one time.
They wanna sell you somethingevery time, or it's a renewable
(11:59):
service, or they want to be thepreferred supplier whenever that
need comes up.
So we wanna create customers forlife and be the preferred
supplier for whatever we'redoing and
Ken Lucci (12:12):
gimme the, gimme the fundamentals.
Gimme the fundamentals.
Start with identifying who theright prospect is, and then just
take me through the firstmeeting and what's important.
To build the best foundation forsuccess.
Julie Thomas (12:29):
So the, the first, um, so it, it's important to
know who you're selling to andwhat problems that you solve.
One of our fundamentalprinciples is people need a
reason to change.
And so oftentimes we lead withproduct and we think that we are
the best thing since slicedbread.
And we might be, but if the, ifthe buyer doesn't have a reason
(12:55):
to change, then it's just noise.
And so we focus on the wholeconcept of if I'm selling
transportation services, luxurytransportation, You know, like,
like your audience is, whatproblem are you solving for
them?
(13:15):
Maybe you're solving that theygo to the airport all the time
and they don't wanna leave theircar at the airport.
Maybe you're solving thatthey're in the event business
and they need to move peoplefrom the church to the party, to
the wherever they might begoing.
For some of those e events,maybe whatever those problems
that you are solving for them,it is important that you focus
(13:40):
on that because that's wherethose, the value will accrue to.
And in many cases, I'm gonna goout on a limb and say, your
audience isn't just sellingtransportation.
They're selling an experience.
Ken Lucci (13:57):
A hundred percent.
Julie Thomas (13:58):
It's reliable, it's clean, it smells good.
You know what to get.
You've got a professionaldriver.
You've got a respectful driver.
All of those things are theintangibles that make for a
great experience that yourbuyers have.
So I wanna, I want them to tapinto that in my conversation.
(14:23):
Not just the truck, the van, thebus that's gonna show up to pick
them up.
Ken Lucci (14:28):
right.
And everybody assumes you'regonna get them to the airport on
time, right?
So the point A to point B isassumed, it's like, I'm gonna
put the meal on the table foryou in a restaurant that's
assumed, but the value is overand above all of that.
The value creation is, it's allabout the individual customer's
(14:49):
problems and how you tailor andsolve them.
So how do you do that when youfirst, you know who your target
audience is, you know who youwant to do business with.
You know what your service is iskind of simpatico with this
particular market.
What does the first appointmentgo like?
And how can you hit it?
(15:10):
How can you hit it out of thepark or at least hit a, a
standup double.
Julie Thomas (15:14):
So the first appointment is not about your
products and services, it'sabout your buyer's needs, their
problems, their challenges,their opportunities.
We use the word problem,
Ken Lucci (15:25):
right?
what they did before,
Julie Thomas (15:27):
what they did before, maybe what their future
needs are, maybe what worked forthem, what didn't work for them.
But you show up to that firstmeeting.
Armed with questions to engagethem.
That first meeting, you shouldnot be talking
Ken Lucci (15:43):
Not verbal diarrhea, right?
Not the, the sales pitch.
That's four, five minutes ofblah.
It's, it's, so you're telling mekey questions, critical
questions, tailored to that.
specific person.
How do I, how do I, how do Iframe those questions?
Do you recommend thesalesperson, you know, do
advanced work on the client?
Julie Thomas (16:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
I gotta do, I gotta, I gottashow up and prove to them that I
know enough about them to berelevant.
Um, so here's a, here's anexample.
I had somebody reach out to me.
The name of my company is ValueSelling.
Ken Lucci (16:23):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (16:24):
Now, if you go to my website, you know what I do?
Somebody reached out to me, Ihappen to pick up the phone.
They started talking to me as ifI'm a realtor, and they said,
oh, value selling.
You're a realtor.
I said, What led you to thatconclusion?
They hadn't done any, theyhadn't even bothered to look at
(16:45):
my, my website.
They hadn't bothered to look atmy LinkedIn profile.
I'm not hard to find.
Ken Lucci (16:52):
No.
Oh God no.
And they treated you like anycookie.
The worst thing in the world isto treat every customer like a
cookie cutter customer.
Everybody's the same.
Julie Thomas (17:00):
Well, they were trying to sell me something that
a realtor needs.
They didn't even know who I was.
And so she went on and finally Isaid, let me stop you for a
minute.
Who do you think you're talkingto?
And she said, I'm talking toJulie Thomas, the realtor.
I said, no, you're not.
You're talking to Julie Thomas,the sales trainer.
Ken Lucci (17:20):
no, and, and honestly, nothing worse.
Nothing worse in life than themwasting your time and then
they're wasting their company'smoney because They did not do
even the basic qualifying.
Julie Thomas (17:37):
They didn't do that.
They, they didn't respect mytime enough to even know who
they were talking to.
And, and it goes beyond that,Ken, they damaged their
reputation because I do know alot of realtors and the
experience left such a sourtaste in my mouth that I
(17:58):
wouldn't even refer them toanybody.
You know what, you really shouldbe talking to my next door
neighbor or the woman across thehouse, or the man, the man in
the office next door.
They might need your servicesbecause that's your target
buyer.
But no, no.
How no way was I going to takemy reputation and introduce them
because it was such a, uh, an.
(18:19):
Yucky experience, in my opinion.
So you, so bad sales calls gobeyond, can go beyond just the
individual that you're talkingto,
Ken Lucci (18:31):
No, no.
Making assumptions.
Making assumptions when you'retrying to, sell something
absolutely awful.
Treating someone like, liketreating everybody the same.
Absolutely terrible.
So you're value selling startswith first premise of value.
(18:53):
Selling is engaging theprospective client.
By listening and asking pointedquestions about their needs.
Correct?
Julie Thomas (19:03):
in their needs and everything, their e their needs,
their timeline.
What's important to them and howwill they measure the impact
Ken Lucci (19:12):
Correct.
Julie Thomas (19:12):
you solve those problems.
Ken Lucci (19:14):
one of the things we always ask is, what is the
measure of success?
What's success?
if you engage us, what's yourmeasure of success?
What will you consider to besomething that's hitting it
outta the park?
And I'll stop with the baseballanalogies.
one of the problems.
this industry has is we havesomeone who, who, the people who
(19:35):
take orders are the people whorespond to prospects, call
themselves reservationists.
And I'm of the school that foreverybody's a salesperson,
everybody in the organization isa salesperson.
But in our case, the industryis.
Back in the day, the, thereservation department,
basically they were ordertakers.
(19:56):
now with so much competitionfrom TNCs, from Uber, from
Lyfts, from, from everycompetitor, anybody that comes
into the market, reservationistsdon't consider themselves
salespeople, so they don't useselling skills.
How do you convince someonethat's in an inside position?
(20:18):
How can, how can they over thephone sell their value and do
what you're talking about doing?
It's not a face-to-face sale,
Julie Thomas (20:27):
No one's has face-to-face sales right now.
I mean, so everything's on thephone on the Zoom.
It's, it's, everybody's aninside sales rep, everybody.
Um, so I think, I think there'sa couple of things.
Number one, it starts with, withclear expectations from leaders.
What is your job and what is theexpectation from that
(20:49):
standpoint?
But I'll tell you a littlestory.
We worked with a company, someof you might have heard of them,
called Rosetta Stone.
Ken Lucci (20:57):
Oh God, yeah,
Julie Thomas (20:57):
Rosetta Stone Language Learning.
Remember, I mean, they don't doit anymore, but 15 years ago you
could not walk through anairport and see the kiosks of
all of the yellow boxes sellingtheir language learning.
And they did an outrageousamount of advertising.
And they had two businessmodels.
(21:18):
They had the consumer model,you're buying the box at the
airport, or, or you could pickup the, you know, respond to an
ad and call an 800 number andthey'd ship it to you.
And then they also had thebusiness to business side, what
they call the commercialbusiness that was selling
professional development.
So I've got a executive who I'mmoving to Italy for a year.
I'm gonna get Rosetta Stone forhim and his family to make, make
(21:41):
that transition easier.
Their inside salespeople were,the phone was ringing off the
hook, the orders were coming inand on the business to business
side, their average order wasabout four to$5,000.
Not bad for a phone call.
Ken Lucci (21:59):
Are you kidding?
That's fantastic.
Julie Thomas (22:01):
Yeah, but they, but they, they had an inkling
that it could be more.
So I went in and I trained thoseinside salespeople, and they
were afraid that if they startedasking too many questions, A,
they would annoy the buyer, andB, they would slow the sales
process down to a dead stop.
So we just said, let's try toask a couple more questions than
(22:26):
you're asking.
Now.
At the beginning, they wereasking how many people, how many
languages.
That was it.
And then they were saying, okay,that'll be$4,000.
That'll be$5,000.
You've got 20 people who needSpanish.
That'll
Ken Lucci (22:38):
Go right to price.
One, two questions go right toprice.
Julie Thomas (22:42):
transactional like that.
We taught them to ask, why doyou need this and do you have
any other language requirementsthat might go this?
Within 30 days, that averagetransaction of 5,000 grew to
over 12.
Ken Lucci (23:01):
Unbelievable.
So let, I wanna stop you thereand I want you to, I wanna put
it into the transportationspace.
Somebody calls you in and theycall you a prospect.
They're a prospect and they say,um, I need you, I need to, uh,
order a airport service, or howmuch to and from the airport,
right?
If you go immediately to, to theprice.
Okay.
Without.
(23:21):
Without the what?
What?
Qualifying questions or asking.
Asking specific questions.
You are not gonna find out who'sgonna be in the car, how often
they travel.
Oh, by the way, tell mesomething.
What other transportation needsdoes your company have?
So you're gonna have a hundredat best, maybe$150 transaction,
but you're leaving thousands ofdollars on the table.
(23:43):
Do you have board meetings?
What?
Do you have any group andmeeting trainings?
Tell me about your business kindof thing.
A hundred percent.
So in that case, I can imaginethat, did the inside salespeople
at Rosetta Stone, did they get,did they, did you get pushback
instead of them taking andtreating every order, like it
(24:05):
was gonna be a three oh$400yellow box order, you know, one
time,$300 yellow box to more ofa consultative sale.
So it, what you're telling me isit took two or three questions
to maximize that revenue from aB2B perspective.
Julie Thomas (24:20):
Yeah.
And I think what what happens isyou build momentum.
So for sure when they first wentthrough the training, they were
like, I call it the Yeah.
But syndrome.
Yeah.
But Julie,
Ken Lucci (24:33):
Oh yeah, I love that.
Julie Thomas (24:34):
but Julie, I get how this would work for them.
Ken Lucci (24:37):
But yeah, but we've tried that.
Oh Yeah.
But, this is the way we've beendoing it for years.
Okay.
Julie Thomas (24:44):
but but when they coupled the training as part of
a change management initiative,now they had really strong
leadership.
They had really clearexpectations, and we approached
it almost like, Hey, let's tryit.
Let's take 30 days and we'regonna start to ask a few more
(25:06):
questions in every conversation.
Now, these people needed A, toactively listen, and b, to have
the emotional intelligence toread between the lines with the
prospect and not push them.
If, if the prospect was like, ohmy gosh, just gimme the price or
I'll call someone else, likethey were still, they were
(25:26):
balancing that.
But what happened is immediatelya few of them had success, and
once you start to have somesuccess, you build momentum.
Once you build momentum, youbuild excitement, and then you,
you kind of start to win oversome of the naysayers.
(25:49):
And oh, by the way, thenaysayers might be your top
performers.
Ken Lucci (25:52):
And a a hu a and they might be the sales manager or
they may be the reservation,they may be the reservations
department supervisor or thedispatch department supervisors.
And that's, that's a death nailto change, isn't it?
Julie Thomas (26:05):
Well, you can't change without them.
So if you are going to train thereservationist or the frontline
and you don't have the supportand the buy-in of their
managers, supervisors, thatleaders don't bother training
'em, don't bother.
(26:26):
You're wasting your time andyour money, so,
Ken Lucci (26:29):
Talk.
Talk to me.
Talk to me about the, theinstitutional employee that's
been there for 20 years.
Who's gonna sh who's gonna nodtheir head to you and then
behind their back they're gonnasay, yeah, but this is the
latest thing that managementwants us to do.
How do you win, though?
Over the biggest naysayers?
Julie Thomas (26:47):
Well, so one of the things that we often do when
we are with our clients, um,'cause business to business has
the same challenge at thecorporate level, um, is number
one, we approach training aspart of a change management
initiative, which means it's notabout the training, it's about
the behaviors and the outcomesthat you want as a result of the
(27:10):
training.
So let's get really intentionalabout those outcomes and let's
figure out how we're gonna notonly train people to do the
things that we know they need todo to get to those outcomes, but
we.
Align it to our managementprocess, we integrate it into
their workflow.
So, you know, if yourreservationists are working on a
screen or if they're, fillingout a form, does that form
(27:33):
support the types of informationnow that you want them to,
questions you want them to beasking?
Or is it something separate?
You've gotta make it really easyfor adults or they won't do
anything.
Right.
Anytime we get confused and, andthen, and then you got the whole
other issue of sales can becrazy'cause I can do everything
(27:55):
wrong and the customer stillmight buy and that now I've just
reinforced the wrong behaviors.
so we focus on a systemicapproach to changing how you
engage your customers and it'sbeyond the front line.
And, and, and first linemanagers are critical.
Are they, are they reinforcingit?
(28:15):
Are they role modeling it?
Are they inspecting it?
Um, are they measuring it?
All of those things are key.
And you know, just like if I'mselling something to somebody
who's gonna spend money with me,people need a reason to change.
We also need to folk tap intothe individual personal
(28:39):
motivation of all of the peoplethat we're training.
And a 20 year top performer whosays, oh, training's great for
everybody else, but leave mealone we need to tap into their
motivation as well.
Ken Lucci (28:53):
from what I do, profitable companies are the
worst to do business withbecause they don't think they
have to change.
The people that come to me ontheir knees that are not
profitable, they listen toeverything we say and they
usually adhere to it, or theydon't improve.
When I'm dealing with profitablecompanies, there's three things
we're fighting, right?
Comfort, complacency, andomniscient thinking that
(29:17):
tomorrow is gonna be just liketoday and yesterday.
So if I'm a top sales performer,how do you come across to me and
how do you convince me that Ineed what to change?
To what you're talking about toselling value today.
Julie Thomas (29:33):
Well, um, so a couple of things.
So if I'm talking to theindividual contributor, I say,
Hey, I know why the company hasasked you to be here, and I know
that you got an email or you gota memo or somebody called you
and said, Hey, Ken, commandperformance, we're doing this
training, be in the office onTuesday at eight.
Um, so I flip it to them rightat the very beginning.
(29:56):
We're spending two daystogether.
So Ken, at the end of those twodays.
What would you need to learn oraccomplish for you to say, gosh,
that was worth my time.
Is there a specific challengeyou have?
Is there a specific objectionthat every time you hear it, the
hair goes up on the back of yourneck and you're like, oh my
(30:18):
gosh.
Um, so we try to get thatindividual buy-in into the
workshop itself.
We also take those people.
I have a new client that I'mworking with right now, and
we've identified five key salesprofessionals in their
organization that have what Icall clout.
Everybody's gonna be looking tosay, well, what do they think
(30:40):
about this?
Ken Lucci (30:41):
Uh Yep,
Julie Thomas (30:42):
And guess what?
I'm talking to them ahead of thetraining.
I'm asking for their input.
I'm getting their buy-in.
'cause you know, change is,everybody thinks change is good,
but nobody wants to be changed.
Ken Lucci (30:59):
correct.
Julie Thomas (31:00):
And so one of the tactics is to involve those
people.
In most companies, you know, whothey are, involve them in the
process so they feel a part ofit and not victimized by it.
so those are a couple of thethings that we do to get that
buy-in.
Ken Lucci (31:20):
how would you advise a business owner to, to maximize
and to make this a success?
In other words, I get brought ina lot of times to work with
finance departments oraccounting departments, and I
always use the term, I, I wantthis literally to be muscle
memory.
You're closing the books at theend of the month.
(31:41):
You, every single transaction isclosed on the last day of the
month.
You are closing and adjustingall your books by the 10th to
15th.
We are meeting with managementat, on the 20th.
And how do you, how do you workwith an owner to say, after the
training is done, you've packedup, how can they best reinforce
(32:02):
the selling value concept withtheir team?
Julie Thomas (32:05):
So when we work with a client, we do a separate
training for those first linemanagers and, and we do really
three things with them.
And, and maybe it's not fair.
There's a higher burden on themanager to become expert faster
because they're the ones thathave to set the expectations and
(32:28):
inspect what they expect.
So we really do a couple ofthings with the managers.
Number one, we say, Hey, what isyour management process today?
How often do you meet with them?
How do you coach them?
Uh, do they have to do some sortof a forecast?
What does that managementprocess look like?
And what are the systems thatsurround those people today?
(32:51):
And I wanna make sure that valueselling is entwined in both
their processes and theirsystems.
the second thing we do in thatworkshop is teach them how to
coach.
Coaching includes role modeling.
I'm going to show you how to doit if you're struggling, Ken.
(33:11):
Let's make a call together andor you watch me and we'll do it
together.
So I'm gonna role model it andI'm gonna provide specific
positive, positive developmentalfeedback that helps you get
better.
Positive developmental feedbackis in the next call, what I want
(33:35):
you to do is, is spend a littlemore time actively listening.
Because what I noticed is youseem to be focused on what
you're gonna say next, andyou're missing clues that you
might otherwise have picked upon.
'cause you're not listening asattentively as you could.
(33:55):
That's developmental.
It's about the future.
Um, and it's positive and it'sspecific.
and so those are a couple of thethings that we teach in our
coaching.
Then the third thing we do withthose leaders is say, Hey, let's
not try to eat the elephant inone bite.
Let's focus on one skill orbehavior at a time, and build
(34:20):
that momentum.
That gets people excited thatthey say, okay, that worked, and
now I've kind of built the habitaround that.
What's next?
Well, next, let's ask about, youknow, who else in their
organization might also needthese types of services?
Ken Lucci (34:38):
Uh, listen, you, you're, you're, you are, you're
preaching to the choir and it'sthe core.
It's at the core of what we see,what we observe.
Uh, I think a lot of smallbusinesses, and I I think of a
small business is less than 5million.
you know, a lot of thebusinesses we deal with are mom
and pop.
So the owner of themselves isinvolved in, in many key
(34:59):
processes that are not justreservations or selling.
they're getting the vehiclesready.
They're, they're doingdispatching and they're, quote,
running the business.
They're in the business.
It's a couple things that Ithink that I, that we notice is
small business owners are notomnipotent.
And to be good leaders, you haveto be good coaches.
(35:20):
my dad used to say he used torun a supermarket.
My dad used to say, in order tobe considered.
An expert at what I do, I needto know how to break down a cow,
cut the meat, uh, cut the coldcuts, make a sub wrap, produce,
et cetera.
So I think small business ownersget stuck running their business
instead of working on theirbusiness.
What you just said to me, fits,fits perfectly.
(35:43):
For example, I have a greatcustomer, you know, they're
about a five and a half million.
We're trying to get'em to 10million great financial
condition, and they'restruggling to get their
reservationists to ask thequestion or to, to listen to
cues that may say that, that theclient needs service in other
(36:04):
cities.
So if, if we're carrying Juliefrom her home to the Charleston
Airport, what do we know?
We know that Julie's getting ona plane and it's gonna land.
Okay?
So Julie's landing in Chicago,you know, Julie, um, tell me how
long gonna be in Chicago and canI provide you service in
Chicago?
(36:24):
What do you do when you land inChicago?
Uh, you know, I'm gonna wait inthe Uber line, you know?
Can I help you with that?
So what you just said onfocusing on one change, every,
uh, every person that's in theaudience, every company owner,
every manager should, the firstchange would be if you're
(36:44):
driving somebody to the airport.
Number one, try to get the roundtrip.
Hey, when are you coming back?
Julie, why don't we set up yourround trip now?
Tell me something.
What do you, what you, how longgonna be in Chicago?
Can I provide service inChicago?
Now I'm gonna use Uber when Iland.
How about from the hotel back?
It'll be one secured transactionand.
(37:05):
You know, what do you do whenyou go to other cities?
Do you use Uber?
Have they ever, you know, tellme about that.
So the one piece of beha, onebehavioral piece, or the one
transaction that everybodystrives for to change in this
industry, you know, it's like,it's like literally trying to
sell the fries or it's tr liketrying to sell the dessert at
(37:26):
the restaurant.
The struggle is to get them,you've got'em on the phone,
you're selling airport, you'reselling them to the airport.
How do you get them to maximizethat transaction?
That one key would helpeverybody in the audience.
Julie Thomas (37:40):
And it's questions.
It's questions.
It's, it's asking, questions.
'cause you know what, maybe inChicago, my, my daughter's
picking me up.
And, and, and that's okay.
But then what happens when I getback to Charleston?
Or do you have any other futureplans that we can give you peace
of mind and have all of that?
(38:02):
Put aside, and, and let's faceit, you know, Uber's great for
what Uber is.
Ken Lucci (38:07):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (38:08):
Cost isn't fixed, right?
I, you know, the cost isn'tfixed.
The, uh, product is notconsistent.
Ken Lucci (38:20):
God no.
Julie Thomas (38:21):
And, um, and anything could happen.
so, you know, the, but you know,back to your point of talk about
an industry that is facingconstant change.
You're in it.
Ask the yellow cab guys, and nowhow many cities are getting
driverless
Ken Lucci (38:41):
yep,
Julie Thomas (38:42):
Ubers or the Waymo?
Like,
Ken Lucci (38:44):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (38:45):
you know, the more things, things are changing and
user tolerance and acceptancewill change with it.
And our job as businessprofessionals.
Is to make sure we don't becomeobsolete and we change with it.
And maybe the change isn't onthe product side.
(39:07):
Maybe it's on the customerexperience side.
Ken Lucci (39:10):
Uh, NN you, you are again, precinct to the choir.
Um, from where we sit, we seethe chauffeur space.
You know, there, theredefinitely is more disruption
coming, but at the end of theday, there are so many
categories that we provideservice in that are much better
than the TNCs and even the taximodel, the TNC model board,
(39:31):
meetings, groups and meetings,weddings.
The most important day of yourlife is your wedding.
You know, from a perspective ofcorporations, the most important
thing we do is tra is keepexecutives on time and executive
travel around the world, as wellas those board meetings, the
groups and meetings.
So there's no shortage ofopportunity, but what, what,
what you are driving home to meis a couple things.
(39:53):
Number one, the change is gonnacome from leadership from the
top.
it can't be.
Well, yeah, we're gonna try hertraining.
It has to be a commitment fromthe top, whether that's, whether
that's an owner or manager fromthe top.
They've gotta practice what theypreach.
And changing behavior, as you'vesaid, is about positive
(40:15):
reinforcement.
No, you're doing it wrong.
That that doesn't work today.
That doesn't work today.
And so many leaders are stuck inthat way of managing.
Right, managing my fear.
So what, to me, the essence ofvalue selling is creating a
rapport in the relationship.
How basic is that?
Julie Thomas (40:34):
Well, I mean, people do business with people
that they trust that they arecredible.
So everybody is in the trust andcredibility business.
I don't care what you sell, whatyour product is, if you're not,
Ken Lucci (40:47):
on the head.
Julie Thomas (40:48):
you know, so, um, and in your space, I think
relationships.
Key.
So how do you buildrelationship?
You focus on the needs of theother person.
We all know people in our livesthat don't know anything about
us and they're takers.
And they're not givers, right?
(41:09):
but we also have people in ourlives that the first thing is
that out of their mouths are,tell me about you.
How are you?
People tend to be interested inpeople that are interested in
them.
It's just kind of human nature.
Ken Lucci (41:25):
And, and what you are, you are not.
It's funny, you know, you've,you've not said anything about
here.
Here's the outline, here's thescript.
This is what you have to say.
This is all conversational.
This is literally one person.
It comes right down tointerpersonal relationship
skills and building rapport,finding out what's critically
important to that person.
(41:45):
And if you think it's lowestprice, getting to and from the
airport, you're wrong.
If you think it's lowest priceto move 300 people.
Okay.
For an investor meeting, ashareholder meeting, you're,
you're totally wrong, and you'renot getting to the essence of
what is really criticallyimportant to the person on the
other end of the line.
true, true or false statement.
(42:07):
What's more, most important tome is as, as, let's say a
procurement person is absolutelowest possible price, or making
sure that you make me look good.
In other words, what you'reselling me is going to enhance
what my business does.
True or false,
Julie Thomas (42:26):
Um, true.
We, we have a, one of ourfoundational principles is
people make emotional buyingdecisions for logical reasons.
Now there
Ken Lucci (42:34):
in your book.
They justify it logically.
Julie Thomas (42:36):
there.
Ken Lucci (42:37):
make it emotionally and they justify it logically.
Julie Thomas (42:39):
I just bought a new car.
I can tell you all of thereasons I bought the car.
The reality is I loved the way Ifelt when I sat in that car.
And how pretty it was and, um,and the aesthetics.
But I, but it's gas mileage,it's convenience, it's got room
for the dog.
It's got all the logic that Ineeded to, to justify it.
(43:03):
So, but the reality is there,there might be a segment of the
market that is only interestedin the lowest cost.
They're not my people.
Ken Lucci (43:15):
There you go.
Not all revenue is good.
Revenue.
not all revenue is good revenue.
Julie Thomas (43:20):
Absolutely Not
Ken Lucci (43:23):
right?
Julie Thomas (43:23):
So if I identify in the first meeting that, that
is your criteria, I'm gonna hugyou, bless you, and release you
because you are not my long-termcustomer.
And even if I say I'm gonna, I'mgonna discount the heck out of
this to get'em and then I'mgonna wow'em with the service
level.
(43:44):
It never works out that
Ken Lucci (43:45):
It never, never works.
When they ca when you give upsomething on your price and you
cut a deal to think that you'regonna make it up long term, it
never works, does it?
Julie Thomas (43:56):
They, you've just devalued your products and
services, so absolutely not.
If you identify that, thatperson that you're talking to,
that is their, we don't qualify.
That's not qualified and we'renot gonna push the rope.
So that's fine.
They may come back, they mayleave the president of their
(44:18):
board on the side of the roadsomeday, or miss a critical
customer meeting that costs themreal revenue.
But until that happens, if theysay the lowest cost is good
enough, you're not gonnaconvince'em.
So part of qualification isunderstanding, do they value the
(44:41):
experience?
Of your products and servicesversus the competitive
alternatives.
Ken Lucci (44:49):
correct and, and you learn more.
Let's go back to this.
I am a believer that it, whenyou lead with price, you lose
lead with price and you lose.
If we're having a conversation,as you say, and I'm finding out
what's critically important toyou and what defines success by
asking questions, how often doyou travel?
(45:11):
Tell me what you do now and youknow, you obviously had board
meetings last year.
What did you do then when, thenwhen I quote my price, I can.
Mirror back.
I can quote back to them whatthey said to me.
You know, you, you, I hear somepeople say, and yes, we are more
(45:33):
expensive than Uber X or UberBlack, but we don't have any,
um, surge prices and we'reguaranteed.
But you told me last year thatat this board meeting, your
provider was late and thevehicles were dirty.
Yeah.
We, we are definitely gonna behigher priced, but we're never
(45:53):
gonna do that to you.
So you can, when you do thepractice value selling, they're
giving you the ammunition,aren't they
Julie Thomas (46:00):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
But you can't fall back on whatthey've told you if you don't
know it in the first place.
And too many sales reps didn'task that.
They assume it.
Um, or, or they don't ask it, orthey ask one person and then I'm
talking to another person whomight have different criteria.
(46:21):
So, you know, selling is anindividual support.
Back to something you said a fewminutes ago, it's not a script,
it's a conversation.
And that's why we focus on thequestions, to direct the
conversation.
Anytime I've ever tried ascript, it doesn't work.
'cause the customer neverfollows their lines.
(46:42):
So think of the old days.
Ken, you and I are old enough toremember telemarketers calling
our home phone every night at6:00 PM when we
Ken Lucci (46:51):
Oh, at dinner, it never fail.
You sit down for dinner And thetelemarketer is gonna call the
home phone, no question about
Julie Thomas (46:56):
And it didn't matter what you said on the
phone, they kept reading theirscripts
Ken Lucci (47:02):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (47:03):
the only way to get rid of them was ultimately
to hang up because they weren'tlistening.
They weren't, it, they, theyjust went through their script.
It didn't matter what you said.
They asked a first question.
It didn't matter what you said.
They asked the se, they wentright into their script.
It
Ken Lucci (47:20):
act,
Julie Thomas (47:21):
work.
Ken Lucci (47:21):
it's actually insulting to your intelligent So
before we go, I wanna touch ontwo critical things.
One is what you call land andexpand.
Talk to me about that Land andexpand the concept of landing
and, and then expanding service.
Julie Thomas (47:39):
so the idea is with a new logo or a new
customer, you land them with asmaller opportunity.
With an intentional approach togrow that revenue or business or
footprint over time.
So it might be land that firstmeeting, that first airport
(48:03):
trip, that first board meeting,that first event with the
intention of, I'm going to growand try to build a broader,
deeper relationship to becomeyour preferred transportation
for all your transportationneeds.
But I might have to prove myvalue, prove that I'm worth it
(48:23):
with that smaller piece, ofbusiness first to mitigate their
risk, that they're making abigger, longer term commitment
to an unknown.
Ken Lucci (48:34):
Uh, agreed.
Now that speaks to me in twoways.
Number one, knowing the truelifetime value of a customer,
okay?
And, and, and finding a way towin their trust absolutely.
Become the most credible in themarketplace, to provide the
service that we provide.
(48:55):
And then anything after thatagree or disagree, they're gonna
be less price sensitive to beginat, at, at that point, after you
have that, if you, after youhave that seat in their mind.
Julie Thomas (49:08):
I think so.
I think so.
I mean, it, it doesn't meanthat, I mean, we can't take
advantage of them and, and, youknow, with ridiculous prices,
but we don't have a low costalternative to win.
Ken Lucci (49:20):
agreed.
Julie Thomas (49:21):
you know, so absolutely once you become their
preference for whatever reason,whether it's a tangible or an
intangible.
You're their preference now, butthere's a couple things that
happen.
Your competitors might be outthere trying to unseat you and
(49:42):
again, focusing on, hey, youknow, is there a reason for you
to change?
did something go wrong from thatstandpoint?
but once you're preferred, let'sface it, people are, are also
kind of lazy.
Like it's a lot of work just tofind new suppliers and new
providers.
Ken Lucci (50:00):
it's exhausting.
Julie Thomas (50:01):
Yeah.
And, and so, you know, oncewe've won it, then we need to
continually delight them andcontinually make sure we're
calling out the value andreinforcing that the outcomes
they expected, um, have beenrealized.
Ken Lucci (50:21):
Always check in after every transaction, especially in
the beginning, but always checkin to make sure everything went
perfect, whether it's a, a textmessage, email, or a follow up
phone call.
Always ask for the review.
The other piece to me aboutlanding and expanding is that
we've, as an industry failedmiserably at, is building
(50:41):
consistent use cases for peopleto try different, try us in
different settings, try uh,different ways of doing, of
working with us.
talked to somebody the other dayand was like, Ken, I have limo
buses on my website.
I'm like, you are not giving thecorporation a use case of why
they would want to put theirpeople in your limo bus.
(51:02):
You're selling the product,you're selling the vehicle, and
that's not what works.
Sell the experience.
So land and expand to me isalways letting them know other
ways that we can serve theirneeds.
Asking the questions.
Do you have a salesorganization?
Absolutely.
Tell me something.
How do you keep'em motivated?
(51:23):
How do you keep them, how do youreward them at the end of the
month?
we do these contests.
We do this.
What do you think about usproviding a night out for them
to top golf?
We're gonna put them in a limobus.
I can't provide alcohol, but youcan bring it on if you want or
if you don't wanna do that, I'llset up refreshments and snacks.
(51:43):
What do you think about that?
So the land and expand isletting everybody know what we
do and how we can serve thembest.
Um, there's a big thing in theindu in our industry about,
well, we provide service in 600cities.
Terrific.
Nobody gives a shit when they'rereading that on your website.
Tell me, Julia, do you have anytravel coming up?
Personal?
How about any personalprofessional travel coming up?
(52:06):
You know, my husband and I aregoing over to Europe this
summer.
Can I make a suggestion?
Where are you landing?
Let me price something out.
I'm, it'll be a one securetransaction because now you
won't have to give your creditcard to anybody overseas.
I'm gonna take care of this foryou.
So again, the land and expand,it's about maximizing the
lifetime value of that customer.
(52:27):
And you're not spending anymoreto get another prospect through
the door, you're se it's theaxiom of selling one person five
times versus spending the moneyto develop five leads and sell
them once.
It just makes all the sense inthe world.
Um, as we finish up, couple ofthings.
(52:48):
How do you feel about chatbotsonline quoting tools and the the
thought process that business istrying to replace, the
interaction between the humanbeings on the sales process.
Julie Thomas (53:01):
Well, I think the genie's outta the bottle for
certain things.
Um, I, I, I mean, I thinkthey're here to stay.
There's no winding that back.
Um, I think you have to look atthe buyer's experience, and the
reality is, in some cases,salespeople have not added value
(53:22):
to the buyer's experience.
And that's why all of a sudden,hey, if I can do a self-service
automated solution, it's betterfor me because the salespeople
aren't adding value.
So I think you really have tolook at what are the things that
can be automated and what arethe things that, the buyer does
(53:44):
expect to be able to self-serve?
Then where can you add value,um, over time?
And, um, but I think chat, chatbots, uh, you know, they're not
going away.
Ken Lucci (53:58):
They're, they're not, but you know, they can't,
they're also not the panacea.
Um, and, and to me, if you thinkthat the, that the automated,
once the lead comes in and theyrequest a quote, if you think
three emails is gonna increaseyour closing without human
interaction, you're wrong.
I mean, I can say case by caseby case where somebody goes on a
(54:20):
website, fills out a form, theymay get an automated price.
But you can increase yourclosing ratio by 30 to 40% by
interacting on a human levelright then and there.
Right.
Not being intrusive.
Hey, I, I saw you ask forservice to the airport.
Do you have a few minutes?
You know, do you have a fewminutes or, I saw you requested
(54:41):
service in a Sprinter for fivehours, uh, to go out next
Thursday night.
Do you have a few minutes sothat I can understand what, what
you're trying to do?
Because I see so many operatorsthat are so many businesses in
general, they, they're, they'regoing to Google, they're doing
Google, PPC ads.
They're going to, they're gonnaautomate their entire sales
(55:03):
process.
And what happens is they'regenerating leads, but they, the
sales, the closing ratios are,are terrible and leads are
dropping on the floor.
So I.
Julie Thomas (55:14):
Yeah, I mean, I, I think that's, i, I, I don't
think a hundred percentautomated process is gonna serve
the buyer well.
'cause buyers make mistakes allthe time and they buy the wrong
stuff for the wrong reason.
So the second we take the humanelement out of that, I think the
buyer is at risk.
(55:34):
Some of those buyers won'trecognize that until they get
burned.
Ken Lucci (55:38):
And then they'll write you a shitty review
because they
Julie Thomas (55:40):
it's never their fault.
It's always our
Ken Lucci (55:43):
no.
No, buddy.
Julie Thomas (55:44):
but, I do think that's the problem with, with
some of that, it, it assumesthat I've got, that I know with
a hundred percent certaintyexactly what my needs are and I
am self-selecting what thoseare.
And the reality is, most of thetime we're the questions we out
(56:06):
ask.
Help the buyer better, gainbetter insight to what those
needs really are
Ken Lucci (56:14):
I.
Julie Thomas (56:14):
that they are selecting the right options for
Ken Lucci (56:16):
Correct especially on the more comp in our industry,
on the more complex moves.
Right.
I always say tell people, youknow, once I've chosen a
Marriott, uh, you know, JWMarriott or Ritz Carlton, that's
where I wanna stay.
I really don't wanna talk toanybody.
Okay?
But if I'm having a meeting atthe Ritz Carlton, Pentagon City,
I want understand what roomsthey have available for that
(56:38):
service.
So I think it tech is two, twothings.
First of all, the tech in ourindustry is terrible.
It's, we've, we've had 15 yearsnow thereabouts to catch up with
Uber, and we've not even takenthe first steps.
So we've taken, we've takingadvantage, or excuse me, not
taking advantage of the orderingand logistics, um, technology
(57:00):
that now the millennials expect.
They, they do everything on anapp.
We've done, we've done aterrible job at that.
So I preach that I want to haveall of, I want the industry to
move towards all vanilla icecream reservations online after
you've created the relationship,after you've opened up the
account.
So talk to us about, in, inclosing, talk to us about if, if
(57:22):
you're a sale, if you're a, asmall business owner, how do you
yourself, if you are the guythat's answering the phone and
taking rides or answering thephones and dispatching, how do
you avoid letting the noise ofyour business stop you from
learning these skills?
Julie Thomas (57:40):
Well, you have to be intentional.
You have to, you have torecognize that if you are not
growing your skillset and yourmindset, you will become
irrelevant in today's techenabled world, but you, it has
to be a priority because let'sface it, we're all busy.
(58:03):
Our days all get away from us.
Ken Lucci (58:06):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (58:07):
But the things that I prioritize are the things
that get done.
And to me that's, you know, Ithink time management is a bunch
of hogwash, right?
You don't manage time, youprioritize.
And for me, my priorities are onmy calendar
Ken Lucci (58:24):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (58:25):
and I time block things.
And if I don't, if they're noton my calendar, there's a good
chance they won't get done.
So I manage my priorities bymaking sure I'm putting time on
them on my calendar.
I saw a woman interviewedyesterday on one of the morning
shows, and she had gone througha massive career change.
(58:48):
And she talked about the, theday that she recognized that
what she was doing was not inalignment with her values.
And she did that by color codingher calendar.
And so, you know, red was workactivities, green was
faith-based activities, blue wasfamily activities.
(59:11):
And she said, I looked at mycalendar and, and the two most
important priorities in my lifewere my family and my faith, and
my calendar was a hundredpercent read with work.
Ken Lucci (59:24):
Absolutely.
Julie Thomas (59:24):
And she said, I had that visual.
And that's what led me to makethe decision that I was gonna
change my priorities.
I think we all have to look atwhat our priorities are, and if
your priorities are staying ontop of your game, you gotta
calendar it into your calendar.
Ken Lucci (59:44):
No, no question.
Julie Thomas (59:45):
when are you gonna learn?
Ken Lucci (59:46):
Yeah.
And, and dealing with smallbusiness people, it, it's a
little bit challenging becausethey look at one box every day.
They go, they open one door andthey look inside that room, and
that's their whole life.
And I usually, I usually findthat it's not the market that's
the problem, it's their mindset.
We've always done it this way.
And we're, we are in acommodity.
(01:00:08):
We can't sell value.
And that to me is the completelywrong mindset.
I don't believe that anything isa commodity.
I can hire a painter to paint myhouse, right?
And he can literally drive up ina, in a shitbox pickup truck.
Or I can find someone that Itrust who understands that I
don't want to do this again nextyear.
I want you, I wanna understandthe best way to do this.
(01:00:31):
The result is the same goodlooking house, right?
Clean painted house.
But am I gonna have to do thisagain?
Am I making a mistake here?
And I think you only do thatwith selling value.
I, I think you're only doingthat by learning what's most
important to your client.
Julie Thomas (01:00:46):
So one of our large corporate clients is
Kimberly Clark Professional,
Ken Lucci (01:00:52):
Oh gosh, sure.
Julie Thomas (01:00:53):
and they come to us for value selling.
Now, for those of you who, whodon't know what Kimberly Clark
professional sells, toiletpaper, Kleenex, paper towels,
and soap to places that havepublic restrooms, arenas,
hotels,
Ken Lucci (01:01:11):
yep,
Julie Thomas (01:01:12):
airports,
Ken Lucci (01:01:13):
yep.
Julie Thomas (01:01:15):
they focus on value.
Ken Lucci (01:01:18):
Right.
Julie Thomas (01:01:19):
They're not.
And, and, and you probably don'twant to use the lowest cost
toilet paper or tissue in yourlife, but if we can help
Kimberly Clark compete on valueselling paper towels and toilet
paper, I think we can help thetransportation industry.
Ken Lucci (01:01:38):
a hundred percent.
And that's per, that is aperfect segue into thank you so
much for doing this, but I wantyou to tell people how to, first
of all, how to get the book andthe second of all, how do they
do, how does a small businessperson best way to get in touch
with you and do business withyou?
Julie Thomas (01:01:54):
Great.
I'm going to give you fourpieces of information.
First of all, you can find me onLinkedIn, Julie Thomas, value
Selling Associates.
I am not hard to find.
Please connect with me onLinkedIn.
I'd love to hear from you.
Number two, you can buy my bookon Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
Any, any place where you buy,buy your books.
(01:02:16):
It is the power of valueselling.
The gold standard for drivingrevenue and creating customers
for life.
Um, and then, um, I'm gonna giveyou two websites.
the website that serves our B2Bcorporate clients is value
selling.com, and tons ofresources on there.
(01:02:40):
Uh, we also have a podcast.
There's all kinds of informationon there, but the, the website
for the program that we createdfor entrepreneurs and individual
sales reps is called Grow,G-R-O-W-I-S-T, grow us.com, and
you'll find information aboutour online program for
(01:03:03):
individual sellers.
Ken Lucci (01:03:05):
You know, and I, I honestly, I never endorse or
recommend every time I've doneit for like digital marketing
companies or, you know, we vetbookkeepers, we, we, we
recommend them.
But anytime I do arecommendation, I, I risk
getting burned.
But I will tell you, your bookmoves me so much and, and
(01:03:26):
dovetailed into my dailyconversations with operators who
said to me, I can't go up on myprice.
My competitors are too lowpriced.
I can't go up on my price.
The national network is, is muchlower price than I do.
And I would say, it's not yourmarket, it's not your
competitors, it's your mindsetand it's your process.
(01:03:47):
If you're leading with price,you're losing.
And it really resonated with me.
And listen, I'm 60 years old,I've been selling a lot of
stuff, and I, I was an operator.
And when you're talking aboutthe most, getting you from place
to place on the most importantdays, the most important events
of your life or your career, youcan't focus on low price, but
(01:04:09):
you have to find a way todifferentiate value, and you do
it by the selling value process.
So, Julie Thomas, thank you somuch for agreeing to do this.
I know a lot of business peoplehave books on the market.
I had a book that's not evenreadable, but your book really
is, to me, the best investmentthese people could make.
(01:04:30):
And it's also visit growers.com,and that's for small business
people, small businesses andsolopreneurs.
And I, I think it's the bestpossible thing they could do for
their businesses.
So thank you so much, um, foragreeing, and I hope to talk to
you again soon.
Julie Thomas (01:04:49):
My pleasure, Ken.
Thank you for having me.
Have a great day.
Ken Lucci (01:04:52):
All right, terrific.
Thanks, Julie.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to
(01:05:15):
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.
And welcome everybody to the Ground Transportation
Podcast.
Another exciting episode.
That means it's a Friday.
Um, I don't know which Fridayit's gonna be when John John
drops this, but it's a Fridayand this is the best day of the
week for me because I don't haveto talk finance, deal with
buyers and sellers.
I can have a little bit of fun.
Um, my name is Ken Lucci fromDriving Transactions.
(00:47):
my cohort, James Blaine from PAXTraining is, uh, out training
somebody somewhere.
Um, so I am blessed today to,um, be, uh, interviewing a true
icon in the sales industry,sales training industry.
Uh, Julie Thomas.
Um, she wrote the book, and I'mgonna hold it up, even though
(01:08):
podcast people can't see it, butYouTube people will be, uh, the
power of value selling.
And she, uh, to me, uh, afterreading this book,'cause you
know, a lot of people put outbooks, but after this reading
this book, she's a true subjectmatter expert.
At the practice of selling valueover just selling low price and
(01:29):
how to differentiate yourcompany and how to differentiate
any product you sell, anyservice you sell to sell the
true value of what you bring tothe table.
And I, Julie, I am so happy tohave you.
Um, I, I read a lot and I amblessed, uh, when, when I'm able
to connect with an author and,uh, you are, you are truly an
(01:52):
icon at what you do.
And, and people can't see thebook, but I will tell you in
the, the, the, the name of thebook again is the Gold Standard,
uh, the Power of Value Sellingthe Gold Standard to drive
revenue and create Customers forLife.
And when you, when you get thebook and you look in the front
of the book, the first few pagesand the back jacket are praises
(02:14):
of this book from businessleaders who frankly are the
who's who.
Of US corporations, us big, uh,US co best and biggest
companies, as well asuniversities around the country.
So congratulations on the book.
Um, what you preach to ouraudience.
This is why I wanted you to comeon.
(02:36):
What you preach is what ourindustry needs.
Uh, it's so much, it's soimportant.
It's as Im important to me asthe fuel we put in our vehicles.
What you teach is what everybusiness owner of a private
transportation company should bedoing to train their staff on a
daily basis.
So I am absolutely thrilledbeyond belief to, to have you
(02:56):
here.
Before we get into the kind ofthe mechanics or nuts and bolts
of how to sell value, uh, JulieThomas, please tell us about
your career and tell us aboutyour company Value Selling
Associates.
Julie Thomas (03:08):
Awesome.
Well, Kent, thank you so much.
That was a nice lead up.
I hope you haven't oversold, uh,this conversation in any way.
Um, but I, I appreciate theendorsement for the book, for
our methodology and for ourapproach.
Um, and, um, and thanks for theopportunity to, to meet your
(03:28):
audience today.
Um, I, I started out in finance,um, when I first graduated from
college, and quickly realized,eh, this is not really what I
wanna be doing.
And so I ended up getting a, in,um, entry level inside sales job
(03:51):
for, at the time, kind of astartup research company on the
east coast.
That company, um, is now a$5billion leader in their industry
and goes by the name of Gartner.
And, uh, when I was at Gartner,I really, I learned so much.
(04:13):
We were moving so fast.
Um, and I also rode, rode thatgrowth and was promoted, um,
repeatedly in the 16 years thatI spent there, starting in an
entry level sales job, ending asa group vice president where I
was running all of talentdevelopment, onboarding, sales,
(04:36):
training for the entire globalsales organization at the time.
Ken Lucci (04:41):
and Gardner, so everybody knows is you, that you
sell research, you sell the ex,you sell the expertise of
creating data, research.
It's a service.
I mean, it's an intangible.
Julie Thomas (04:55):
Oh, absolutely.
It's a, um, our primary product.
Their primary product still issyndicated research by industry
analysts package up for the ITprofessional.
So think of it as consumerreports on steroids.
Um, that gives you insight intowhat you should be buying, what
(05:18):
you should be spending on it,how you should architect your IT
infrastructure.
And that's a grossoversimplification of what they
do, but they really help the endusers deploy, manage, and
exploit technology to achievetheir business outcomes and
business goals.
Ken Lucci (05:36):
So how long you, were you with Gardner?
Julie Thomas (05:38):
I was there for 16 years.
Ken Lucci (05:40):
Wow.
For you?
Entry level all the way up tobasically the head of global
sales.
Julie Thomas (05:45):
gr um, global sales training.
So I,
Ken Lucci (05:48):
Gotcha.
Good.
Beautiful.
Julie Thomas (05:50):
to a group vice president in global sales
training when I exited thecompany and joined our supplier
Value selling associates, um, atthe time, and then ultimately
became the leader of thisorganization.
Ken Lucci (06:06):
So tell us about value selling.
Julie Thomas (06:08):
So value selling, um, really was born, um, the
founder was X-I-B-M-X.
Xerox had gone through a lot ofsales training and over his
career had recognized that therewas some gaps that, um, that he
discovered in sales.
And he went out on his own andcreated the value selling
(06:32):
framework.
and then we, my boss hired him.
At Gartner.
And so I was introduced to it.
So it was really the fuel of mycareer.
Value selling is a salesapproach.
It's a framework of how youstructure conversations to be
much more deliberate andintentional for the outcomes
(06:55):
that you want, which is toqualify an op, create an
opportunity, qualify thatopportunity, advance it, and
close it.
And we historically have workedwith business to business sales
teams that are trying to competeon value.
So they are not trying to be thelow cost provider in their
(07:16):
space.
And, and we have some fabulouscompanies that have used us over
the years from salesforce.com toAdobe, to Motorola, to Google.
and just to name a few, um, aswell as companies not in
technology like thermal, um,scientific and Cardinal Health
(07:38):
and various, um, companies in amultitude of industries that are
selling business to business.
And they come to us becausethey're sales people might be
struggling.
Maybe they're struggling to gainaccess to the right people.
Maybe they're struggling todifferentiate their solution so
they can command a premium priceor a higher price.
(08:01):
Or maybe they're just strugglingto close their pipeline, um, and
they want their salespeopleengaging with their prospects
differently.
A couple of years ago, um, I, Iasked myself, gosh, we work with
all these companies.
what about the individual salesreps that are out there, the
(08:22):
solopreneurs, the entrepreneurs,the businesses that might have
one or two salespeople butaren't the full enterprise?
Ken Lucci (08:30):
Yeah.
The small business people whodepend on sales every day but
don't do it, right?
Correct.
Julie Thomas (08:35):
Well, absolutely because most of the, the
entrepreneurs out there areentrepreneurs because they're
good at something.
They're, they love cars andthey're good at driving.
They're good at managing afleet, they're good at
logistics, they're good at thosethings.
And it's not that they're notgood at sales, they've just
never been taught how to
Ken Lucci (08:55):
Correct.
Julie Thomas (08:56):
So they show up and have conversations.
Um, and those conversationsmight not always be serving them
as well as they would like.
So we actually took everythingwe do at the corporate level and
packaged it up for theentrepreneur individual.
Who might be, um, strugglingwith sales or wondering why they
(09:19):
have a great first meeting, butthen nobody ever calls them back
or wondering why they're gettingobjections on price, um, because
the customer just doesn't getit.
I hear, I hear that, uh, lastweek from a prospect that said,
you know, I go in and I do allhave all these conversations and
(09:39):
the customer just doesn't getit.
So they're not willing to, topay.
Ken Lucci (09:42):
Well, because you, they're not speaking the
language of value.
Right.
Julie Thomas (09:46):
They're not speaking the language of, of
value.
And, and more importantly,they're typically leading with
product.
Let me tell you what I do andhow I do it and why it's great,
and not connecting that to theneeds or the desires of the
person that they're selling to.
Ken Lucci (10:02):
yep.
What brought us here today andwhat problem am I solve solving?
What did you do before today?
Right?
How did they fail you and howcan I do better?
in a prior life, I was in thehome security business and I, I
sup, this is when I was a much,much younger, handsome man.
Well, maybe younger anyway, andI supervised 120 salespeople in
(10:22):
the Southeast.
And, and I always preach thefact that, you know, selling low
prices is the laziest thing inthe world.
it is.
Anybody can sell low price andyou're not building any customer
loyalty there.
So what I love about what you dois you package a program.
Typically only a Fortune 100,fortune 500 company could afford
(10:44):
to pay somebody like you to comein and implement, and you put it
into something that's easy toimplement.
So tell, tell us about theprogram and then go into kind of
the specifics that someone wouldlearn,
Julie Thomas (10:56):
Sure.
Um, so the program is built onthe foundation of this, you
know, award-winning methodologythat we have sold for years to,
to businesses.
And you're right, the way wepackage it for a company, um,
would not be, cost effective.
(11:16):
Uh, I, I wouldn't even be ableto tell a really small business
or a solo entrepreneur.
To buy it the way we package itfor the corporation.
So, so, but we took everythingwe do and looked at the entire
revenue cycle of your company,for example.
So you've got the, the findingthe prospects, tweaking the
(11:39):
messages, gaining access,creating opportunities, closing
opportunities, and then turningthat into customers for life.
Most of the people that I workwith don't wanna sell you
something one time.
They wanna sell you somethingevery time, or it's a renewable
(11:59):
service, or they want to be thepreferred supplier whenever that
need comes up.
So we wanna create customers forlife and be the preferred
supplier for whatever we'redoing and
Ken Lucci (12:12):
gimme the, gimme the fundamentals.
Gimme the fundamentals.
Start with identifying who theright prospect is, and then just
take me through the firstmeeting and what's important.
To build the best foundation forsuccess.
Julie Thomas (12:29):
So the, the first, um, so it, it's important to
know who you're selling to andwhat problems that you solve.
One of our fundamentalprinciples is people need a
reason to change.
And so oftentimes we lead withproduct and we think that we are
the best thing since slicedbread.
And we might be, but if the, ifthe buyer doesn't have a reason
(12:55):
to change, then it's just noise.
And so we focus on the wholeconcept of if I'm selling
transportation services, luxurytransportation, You know, like,
like your audience is, whatproblem are you solving for
them?
(13:15):
Maybe you're solving that theygo to the airport all the time
and they don't wanna leave theircar at the airport.
Maybe you're solving thatthey're in the event business
and they need to move peoplefrom the church to the party, to
the wherever they might begoing.
For some of those e events,maybe whatever those problems
that you are solving for them,it is important that you focus
(13:40):
on that because that's wherethose, the value will accrue to.
And in many cases, I'm gonna goout on a limb and say, your
audience isn't just sellingtransportation.
They're selling an experience.
Ken Lucci (13:57):
A hundred percent.
Julie Thomas (13:58):
It's reliable, it's clean, it smells good.
You know what to get.
You've got a professionaldriver.
You've got a respectful driver.
All of those things are theintangibles that make for a
great experience that yourbuyers have.
So I wanna, I want them to tapinto that in my conversation.
(14:23):
Not just the truck, the van, thebus that's gonna show up to pick
them up.
Ken Lucci (14:28):
right.
And everybody assumes you'regonna get them to the airport on
time, right?
So the point A to point B isassumed, it's like, I'm gonna
put the meal on the table foryou in a restaurant that's
assumed, but the value is overand above all of that.
The value creation is, it's allabout the individual customer's
(14:49):
problems and how you tailor andsolve them.
So how do you do that when youfirst, you know who your target
audience is, you know who youwant to do business with.
You know what your service is iskind of simpatico with this
particular market.
What does the first appointmentgo like?
And how can you hit it?
(15:10):
How can you hit it out of thepark or at least hit a, a
standup double.
Julie Thomas (15:14):
So the first appointment is not about your
products and services, it'sabout your buyer's needs, their
problems, their challenges,their opportunities.
We use the word problem,
Ken Lucci (15:25):
right?
what they did before,
Julie Thomas (15:27):
what they did before, maybe what their future
needs are, maybe what worked forthem, what didn't work for them.
But you show up to that firstmeeting.
Armed with questions to engagethem.
That first meeting, you shouldnot be talking
Ken Lucci (15:43):
Not verbal diarrhea, right?
Not the, the sales pitch.
That's four, five minutes ofblah.
It's, it's, so you're telling mekey questions, critical
questions, tailored to that.
specific person.
How do I, how do I, how do Iframe those questions?
Do you recommend thesalesperson, you know, do
advanced work on the client?
Julie Thomas (16:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
I gotta do, I gotta, I gottashow up and prove to them that I
know enough about them to berelevant.
Um, so here's a, here's anexample.
I had somebody reach out to me.
The name of my company is ValueSelling.
Ken Lucci (16:23):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (16:24):
Now, if you go to my website, you know what I do?
Somebody reached out to me, Ihappen to pick up the phone.
They started talking to me as ifI'm a realtor, and they said,
oh, value selling.
You're a realtor.
I said, What led you to thatconclusion?
They hadn't done any, theyhadn't even bothered to look at
(16:45):
my, my website.
They hadn't bothered to look atmy LinkedIn profile.
I'm not hard to find.
Ken Lucci (16:52):
No.
Oh God no.
And they treated you like anycookie.
The worst thing in the world isto treat every customer like a
cookie cutter customer.
Everybody's the same.
Julie Thomas (17:00):
Well, they were trying to sell me something that
a realtor needs.
They didn't even know who I was.
And so she went on and finally Isaid, let me stop you for a
minute.
Who do you think you're talkingto?
And she said, I'm talking toJulie Thomas, the realtor.
I said, no, you're not.
You're talking to Julie Thomas,the sales trainer.
Ken Lucci (17:20):
no, and, and honestly, nothing worse.
Nothing worse in life than themwasting your time and then
they're wasting their company'smoney because They did not do
even the basic qualifying.
Julie Thomas (17:37):
They didn't do that.
They, they didn't respect mytime enough to even know who
they were talking to.
And, and it goes beyond that,Ken, they damaged their
reputation because I do know alot of realtors and the
experience left such a sourtaste in my mouth that I
(17:58):
wouldn't even refer them toanybody.
You know what, you really shouldbe talking to my next door
neighbor or the woman across thehouse, or the man, the man in
the office next door.
They might need your servicesbecause that's your target
buyer.
But no, no.
How no way was I going to takemy reputation and introduce them
because it was such a, uh, an.
(18:19):
Yucky experience, in my opinion.
So you, so bad sales calls gobeyond, can go beyond just the
individual that you're talkingto,
Ken Lucci (18:31):
No, no.
Making assumptions.
Making assumptions when you'retrying to, sell something
absolutely awful.
Treating someone like, liketreating everybody the same.
Absolutely terrible.
So you're value selling startswith first premise of value.
(18:53):
Selling is engaging theprospective client.
By listening and asking pointedquestions about their needs.
Correct?
Julie Thomas (19:03):
in their needs and everything, their e their needs,
their timeline.
What's important to them and howwill they measure the impact
Ken Lucci (19:12):
Correct.
Julie Thomas (19:12):
you solve those problems.
Ken Lucci (19:14):
one of the things we always ask is, what is the
measure of success?
What's success?
if you engage us, what's yourmeasure of success?
What will you consider to besomething that's hitting it
outta the park?
And I'll stop with the baseballanalogies.
one of the problems.
this industry has is we havesomeone who, who, the people who
(19:35):
take orders are the people whorespond to prospects, call
themselves reservationists.
And I'm of the school that foreverybody's a salesperson,
everybody in the organization isa salesperson.
But in our case, the industryis.
Back in the day, the, thereservation department,
basically they were ordertakers.
(19:56):
now with so much competitionfrom TNCs, from Uber, from
Lyfts, from, from everycompetitor, anybody that comes
into the market, reservationistsdon't consider themselves
salespeople, so they don't useselling skills.
How do you convince someonethat's in an inside position?
(20:18):
How can, how can they over thephone sell their value and do
what you're talking about doing?
It's not a face-to-face sale,
Julie Thomas (20:27):
No one's has face-to-face sales right now.
I mean, so everything's on thephone on the Zoom.
It's, it's, everybody's aninside sales rep, everybody.
Um, so I think, I think there'sa couple of things.
Number one, it starts with, withclear expectations from leaders.
What is your job and what is theexpectation from that
(20:49):
standpoint?
But I'll tell you a littlestory.
We worked with a company, someof you might have heard of them,
called Rosetta Stone.
Ken Lucci (20:57):
Oh God, yeah,
Julie Thomas (20:57):
Rosetta Stone Language Learning.
Remember, I mean, they don't doit anymore, but 15 years ago you
could not walk through anairport and see the kiosks of
all of the yellow boxes sellingtheir language learning.
And they did an outrageousamount of advertising.
And they had two businessmodels.
(21:18):
They had the consumer model,you're buying the box at the
airport, or, or you could pickup the, you know, respond to an
ad and call an 800 number andthey'd ship it to you.
And then they also had thebusiness to business side, what
they call the commercialbusiness that was selling
professional development.
So I've got a executive who I'mmoving to Italy for a year.
I'm gonna get Rosetta Stone forhim and his family to make, make
(21:41):
that transition easier.
Their inside salespeople were,the phone was ringing off the
hook, the orders were coming inand on the business to business
side, their average order wasabout four to$5,000.
Not bad for a phone call.
Ken Lucci (21:59):
Are you kidding?
That's fantastic.
Julie Thomas (22:01):
Yeah, but they, but they, they had an inkling
that it could be more.
So I went in and I trained thoseinside salespeople, and they
were afraid that if they startedasking too many questions, A,
they would annoy the buyer, andB, they would slow the sales
process down to a dead stop.
So we just said, let's try toask a couple more questions than
(22:26):
you're asking.
Now.
At the beginning, they wereasking how many people, how many
languages.
That was it.
And then they were saying, okay,that'll be$4,000.
That'll be$5,000.
You've got 20 people who needSpanish.
That'll
Ken Lucci (22:38):
Go right to price.
One, two questions go right toprice.
Julie Thomas (22:42):
transactional like that.
We taught them to ask, why doyou need this and do you have
any other language requirementsthat might go this?
Within 30 days, that averagetransaction of 5,000 grew to
over 12.
Ken Lucci (23:01):
Unbelievable.
So let, I wanna stop you thereand I want you to, I wanna put
it into the transportationspace.
Somebody calls you in and theycall you a prospect.
They're a prospect and they say,um, I need you, I need to, uh,
order a airport service, or howmuch to and from the airport,
right?
If you go immediately to, to theprice.
Okay.
Without.
(23:21):
Without the what?
What?
Qualifying questions or asking.
Asking specific questions.
You are not gonna find out who'sgonna be in the car, how often
they travel.
Oh, by the way, tell mesomething.
What other transportation needsdoes your company have?
So you're gonna have a hundredat best, maybe$150 transaction,
but you're leaving thousands ofdollars on the table.
(23:43):
Do you have board meetings?
What?
Do you have any group andmeeting trainings?
Tell me about your business kindof thing.
A hundred percent.
So in that case, I can imaginethat, did the inside salespeople
at Rosetta Stone, did they get,did they, did you get pushback
instead of them taking andtreating every order, like it
(24:05):
was gonna be a three oh$400yellow box order, you know, one
time,$300 yellow box to more ofa consultative sale.
So it, what you're telling me isit took two or three questions
to maximize that revenue from aB2B perspective.
Julie Thomas (24:20):
Yeah.
And I think what what happens isyou build momentum.
So for sure when they first wentthrough the training, they were
like, I call it the Yeah.
But syndrome.
Yeah.
But Julie,
Ken Lucci (24:33):
Oh yeah, I love that.
Julie Thomas (24:34):
but Julie, I get how this would work for them.
Ken Lucci (24:37):
But yeah, but we've tried that.
Oh Yeah.
But, this is the way we've beendoing it for years.
Okay.
Julie Thomas (24:44):
but but when they coupled the training as part of
a change management initiative,now they had really strong
leadership.
They had really clearexpectations, and we approached
it almost like, Hey, let's tryit.
Let's take 30 days and we'regonna start to ask a few more
(25:06):
questions in every conversation.
Now, these people needed A, toactively listen, and b, to have
the emotional intelligence toread between the lines with the
prospect and not push them.
If, if the prospect was like, ohmy gosh, just gimme the price or
I'll call someone else, likethey were still, they were
(25:26):
balancing that.
But what happened is immediatelya few of them had success, and
once you start to have somesuccess, you build momentum.
Once you build momentum, youbuild excitement, and then you,
you kind of start to win oversome of the naysayers.
(25:49):
And oh, by the way, thenaysayers might be your top
performers.
Ken Lucci (25:52):
And a a hu a and they might be the sales manager or
they may be the reservation,they may be the reservations
department supervisor or thedispatch department supervisors.
And that's, that's a death nailto change, isn't it?
Julie Thomas (26:05):
Well, you can't change without them.
So if you are going to train thereservationist or the frontline
and you don't have the supportand the buy-in of their
managers, supervisors, thatleaders don't bother training
'em, don't bother.
(26:26):
You're wasting your time andyour money, so,
Ken Lucci (26:29):
Talk.
Talk to me.
Talk to me about the, theinstitutional employee that's
been there for 20 years.
Who's gonna sh who's gonna nodtheir head to you and then
behind their back they're gonnasay, yeah, but this is the
latest thing that managementwants us to do.
How do you win, though?
Over the biggest naysayers?
Julie Thomas (26:47):
Well, so one of the things that we often do when
we are with our clients, um,'cause business to business has
the same challenge at thecorporate level, um, is number
one, we approach training aspart of a change management
initiative, which means it's notabout the training, it's about
the behaviors and the outcomesthat you want as a result of the
(27:10):
training.
So let's get really intentionalabout those outcomes and let's
figure out how we're gonna notonly train people to do the
things that we know they need todo to get to those outcomes, but
we.
Align it to our managementprocess, we integrate it into
their workflow.
So, you know, if yourreservationists are working on a
screen or if they're, fillingout a form, does that form
(27:33):
support the types of informationnow that you want them to,
questions you want them to beasking?
Or is it something separate?
You've gotta make it really easyfor adults or they won't do
anything.
Right.
Anytime we get confused and, andthen, and then you got the whole
other issue of sales can becrazy'cause I can do everything
(27:55):
wrong and the customer stillmight buy and that now I've just
reinforced the wrong behaviors.
so we focus on a systemicapproach to changing how you
engage your customers and it'sbeyond the front line.
And, and, and first linemanagers are critical.
Are they, are they reinforcingit?
(28:15):
Are they role modeling it?
Are they inspecting it?
Um, are they measuring it?
All of those things are key.
And you know, just like if I'mselling something to somebody
who's gonna spend money with me,people need a reason to change.
We also need to folk tap intothe individual personal
(28:39):
motivation of all of the peoplethat we're training.
And a 20 year top performer whosays, oh, training's great for
everybody else, but leave mealone we need to tap into their
motivation as well.
Ken Lucci (28:53):
from what I do, profitable companies are the
worst to do business withbecause they don't think they
have to change.
The people that come to me ontheir knees that are not
profitable, they listen toeverything we say and they
usually adhere to it, or theydon't improve.
When I'm dealing with profitablecompanies, there's three things
we're fighting, right?
Comfort, complacency, andomniscient thinking that
(29:17):
tomorrow is gonna be just liketoday and yesterday.
So if I'm a top sales performer,how do you come across to me and
how do you convince me that Ineed what to change?
To what you're talking about toselling value today.
Julie Thomas (29:33):
Well, um, so a couple of things.
So if I'm talking to theindividual contributor, I say,
Hey, I know why the company hasasked you to be here, and I know
that you got an email or you gota memo or somebody called you
and said, Hey, Ken, commandperformance, we're doing this
training, be in the office onTuesday at eight.
Um, so I flip it to them rightat the very beginning.
(29:56):
We're spending two daystogether.
So Ken, at the end of those twodays.
What would you need to learn oraccomplish for you to say, gosh,
that was worth my time.
Is there a specific challengeyou have?
Is there a specific objectionthat every time you hear it, the
hair goes up on the back of yourneck and you're like, oh my
(30:18):
gosh.
Um, so we try to get thatindividual buy-in into the
workshop itself.
We also take those people.
I have a new client that I'mworking with right now, and
we've identified five key salesprofessionals in their
organization that have what Icall clout.
Everybody's gonna be looking tosay, well, what do they think
(30:40):
about this?
Ken Lucci (30:41):
Uh Yep,
Julie Thomas (30:42):
And guess what?
I'm talking to them ahead of thetraining.
I'm asking for their input.
I'm getting their buy-in.
'cause you know, change is,everybody thinks change is good,
but nobody wants to be changed.
Ken Lucci (30:59):
correct.
Julie Thomas (31:00):
And so one of the tactics is to involve those
people.
In most companies, you know, whothey are, involve them in the
process so they feel a part ofit and not victimized by it.
so those are a couple of thethings that we do to get that
buy-in.
Ken Lucci (31:20):
how would you advise a business owner to, to maximize
and to make this a success?
In other words, I get brought ina lot of times to work with
finance departments oraccounting departments, and I
always use the term, I, I wantthis literally to be muscle
memory.
You're closing the books at theend of the month.
(31:41):
You, every single transaction isclosed on the last day of the
month.
You are closing and adjustingall your books by the 10th to
15th.
We are meeting with managementat, on the 20th.
And how do you, how do you workwith an owner to say, after the
training is done, you've packedup, how can they best reinforce
(32:02):
the selling value concept withtheir team?
Julie Thomas (32:05):
So when we work with a client, we do a separate
training for those first linemanagers and, and we do really
three things with them.
And, and maybe it's not fair.
There's a higher burden on themanager to become expert faster
because they're the ones thathave to set the expectations and
(32:28):
inspect what they expect.
So we really do a couple ofthings with the managers.
Number one, we say, Hey, what isyour management process today?
How often do you meet with them?
How do you coach them?
Uh, do they have to do some sortof a forecast?
What does that managementprocess look like?
And what are the systems thatsurround those people today?
(32:51):
And I wanna make sure that valueselling is entwined in both
their processes and theirsystems.
the second thing we do in thatworkshop is teach them how to
coach.
Coaching includes role modeling.
I'm going to show you how to doit if you're struggling, Ken.
(33:11):
Let's make a call together andor you watch me and we'll do it
together.
So I'm gonna role model it andI'm gonna provide specific
positive, positive developmentalfeedback that helps you get
better.
Positive developmental feedbackis in the next call, what I want
(33:35):
you to do is, is spend a littlemore time actively listening.
Because what I noticed is youseem to be focused on what
you're gonna say next, andyou're missing clues that you
might otherwise have picked upon.
'cause you're not listening asattentively as you could.
(33:55):
That's developmental.
It's about the future.
Um, and it's positive and it'sspecific.
and so those are a couple of thethings that we teach in our
coaching.
Then the third thing we do withthose leaders is say, Hey, let's
not try to eat the elephant inone bite.
Let's focus on one skill orbehavior at a time, and build
(34:20):
that momentum.
That gets people excited thatthey say, okay, that worked, and
now I've kind of built the habitaround that.
What's next?
Well, next, let's ask about, youknow, who else in their
organization might also needthese types of services?
Ken Lucci (34:38):
Uh, listen, you, you're, you're, you are, you're
preaching to the choir and it'sthe core.
It's at the core of what we see,what we observe.
Uh, I think a lot of smallbusinesses, and I I think of a
small business is less than 5million.
you know, a lot of thebusinesses we deal with are mom
and pop.
So the owner of themselves isinvolved in, in many key
(34:59):
processes that are not justreservations or selling.
they're getting the vehiclesready.
They're, they're doingdispatching and they're, quote,
running the business.
They're in the business.
It's a couple things that Ithink that I, that we notice is
small business owners are notomnipotent.
And to be good leaders, you haveto be good coaches.
(35:20):
my dad used to say he used torun a supermarket.
My dad used to say, in order tobe considered.
An expert at what I do, I needto know how to break down a cow,
cut the meat, uh, cut the coldcuts, make a sub wrap, produce,
et cetera.
So I think small business ownersget stuck running their business
instead of working on theirbusiness.
What you just said to me, fits,fits perfectly.
(35:43):
For example, I have a greatcustomer, you know, they're
about a five and a half million.
We're trying to get'em to 10million great financial
condition, and they'restruggling to get their
reservationists to ask thequestion or to, to listen to
cues that may say that, that theclient needs service in other
(36:04):
cities.
So if, if we're carrying Juliefrom her home to the Charleston
Airport, what do we know?
We know that Julie's getting ona plane and it's gonna land.
Okay?
So Julie's landing in Chicago,you know, Julie, um, tell me how
long gonna be in Chicago and canI provide you service in
Chicago?
(36:24):
What do you do when you land inChicago?
Uh, you know, I'm gonna wait inthe Uber line, you know?
Can I help you with that?
So what you just said onfocusing on one change, every,
uh, every person that's in theaudience, every company owner,
every manager should, the firstchange would be if you're
(36:44):
driving somebody to the airport.
Number one, try to get the roundtrip.
Hey, when are you coming back?
Julie, why don't we set up yourround trip now?
Tell me something.
What do you, what you, how longgonna be in Chicago?
Can I provide service inChicago?
Now I'm gonna use Uber when Iland.
How about from the hotel back?
It'll be one secured transactionand.
(37:05):
You know, what do you do whenyou go to other cities?
Do you use Uber?
Have they ever, you know, tellme about that.
So the one piece of beha, onebehavioral piece, or the one
transaction that everybodystrives for to change in this
industry, you know, it's like,it's like literally trying to
sell the fries or it's tr liketrying to sell the dessert at
(37:26):
the restaurant.
The struggle is to get them,you've got'em on the phone,
you're selling airport, you'reselling them to the airport.
How do you get them to maximizethat transaction?
That one key would helpeverybody in the audience.
Julie Thomas (37:40):
And it's questions.
It's questions.
It's, it's asking, questions.
'cause you know what, maybe inChicago, my, my daughter's
picking me up.
And, and, and that's okay.
But then what happens when I getback to Charleston?
Or do you have any other futureplans that we can give you peace
of mind and have all of that?
(38:02):
Put aside, and, and let's faceit, you know, Uber's great for
what Uber is.
Ken Lucci (38:07):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (38:08):
Cost isn't fixed, right?
I, you know, the cost isn'tfixed.
The, uh, product is notconsistent.
Ken Lucci (38:20):
God no.
Julie Thomas (38:21):
And, um, and anything could happen.
so, you know, the, but you know,back to your point of talk about
an industry that is facingconstant change.
You're in it.
Ask the yellow cab guys, and nowhow many cities are getting
driverless
Ken Lucci (38:41):
yep,
Julie Thomas (38:42):
Ubers or the Waymo?
Like,
Ken Lucci (38:44):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (38:45):
you know, the more things, things are changing and
user tolerance and acceptancewill change with it.
And our job as businessprofessionals.
Is to make sure we don't becomeobsolete and we change with it.
And maybe the change isn't onthe product side.
(39:07):
Maybe it's on the customerexperience side.
Ken Lucci (39:10):
Uh, NN you, you are again, precinct to the choir.
Um, from where we sit, we seethe chauffeur space.
You know, there, theredefinitely is more disruption
coming, but at the end of theday, there are so many
categories that we provideservice in that are much better
than the TNCs and even the taximodel, the TNC model board,
(39:31):
meetings, groups and meetings,weddings.
The most important day of yourlife is your wedding.
You know, from a perspective ofcorporations, the most important
thing we do is tra is keepexecutives on time and executive
travel around the world, as wellas those board meetings, the
groups and meetings.
So there's no shortage ofopportunity, but what, what,
what you are driving home to meis a couple things.
(39:53):
Number one, the change is gonnacome from leadership from the
top.
it can't be.
Well, yeah, we're gonna try hertraining.
It has to be a commitment fromthe top, whether that's, whether
that's an owner or manager fromthe top.
They've gotta practice what theypreach.
And changing behavior, as you'vesaid, is about positive
(40:15):
reinforcement.
No, you're doing it wrong.
That that doesn't work today.
That doesn't work today.
And so many leaders are stuck inthat way of managing.
Right, managing my fear.
So what, to me, the essence ofvalue selling is creating a
rapport in the relationship.
How basic is that?
Julie Thomas (40:34):
Well, I mean, people do business with people
that they trust that they arecredible.
So everybody is in the trust andcredibility business.
I don't care what you sell, whatyour product is, if you're not,
Ken Lucci (40:47):
on the head.
Julie Thomas (40:48):
you know, so, um, and in your space, I think
relationships.
Key.
So how do you buildrelationship?
You focus on the needs of theother person.
We all know people in our livesthat don't know anything about
us and they're takers.
And they're not givers, right?
(41:09):
but we also have people in ourlives that the first thing is
that out of their mouths are,tell me about you.
How are you?
People tend to be interested inpeople that are interested in
them.
It's just kind of human nature.
Ken Lucci (41:25):
And, and what you are, you are not.
It's funny, you know, you've,you've not said anything about
here.
Here's the outline, here's thescript.
This is what you have to say.
This is all conversational.
This is literally one person.
It comes right down tointerpersonal relationship
skills and building rapport,finding out what's critically
important to that person.
(41:45):
And if you think it's lowestprice, getting to and from the
airport, you're wrong.
If you think it's lowest priceto move 300 people.
Okay.
For an investor meeting, ashareholder meeting, you're,
you're totally wrong, and you'renot getting to the essence of
what is really criticallyimportant to the person on the
other end of the line.
true, true or false statement.
(42:07):
What's more, most important tome is as, as, let's say a
procurement person is absolutelowest possible price, or making
sure that you make me look good.
In other words, what you'reselling me is going to enhance
what my business does.
True or false,
Julie Thomas (42:26):
Um, true.
We, we have a, one of ourfoundational principles is
people make emotional buyingdecisions for logical reasons.
Now there
Ken Lucci (42:34):
in your book.
They justify it logically.
Julie Thomas (42:36):
there.
Ken Lucci (42:37):
make it emotionally and they justify it logically.
Julie Thomas (42:39):
I just bought a new car.
I can tell you all of thereasons I bought the car.
The reality is I loved the way Ifelt when I sat in that car.
And how pretty it was and, um,and the aesthetics.
But I, but it's gas mileage,it's convenience, it's got room
for the dog.
It's got all the logic that Ineeded to, to justify it.
(43:03):
So, but the reality is there,there might be a segment of the
market that is only interestedin the lowest cost.
They're not my people.
Ken Lucci (43:15):
There you go.
Not all revenue is good.
Revenue.
not all revenue is good revenue.
Julie Thomas (43:20):
Absolutely Not
Ken Lucci (43:23):
right?
Julie Thomas (43:23):
So if I identify in the first meeting that, that
is your criteria, I'm gonna hugyou, bless you, and release you
because you are not my long-termcustomer.
And even if I say I'm gonna, I'mgonna discount the heck out of
this to get'em and then I'mgonna wow'em with the service
level.
(43:44):
It never works out that
Ken Lucci (43:45):
It never, never works.
When they ca when you give upsomething on your price and you
cut a deal to think that you'regonna make it up long term, it
never works, does it?
Julie Thomas (43:56):
They, you've just devalued your products and
services, so absolutely not.
If you identify that, thatperson that you're talking to,
that is their, we don't qualify.
That's not qualified and we'renot gonna push the rope.
So that's fine.
They may come back, they mayleave the president of their
(44:18):
board on the side of the roadsomeday, or miss a critical
customer meeting that costs themreal revenue.
But until that happens, if theysay the lowest cost is good
enough, you're not gonnaconvince'em.
So part of qualification isunderstanding, do they value the
(44:41):
experience?
Of your products and servicesversus the competitive
alternatives.
Ken Lucci (44:49):
correct and, and you learn more.
Let's go back to this.
I am a believer that it, whenyou lead with price, you lose
lead with price and you lose.
If we're having a conversation,as you say, and I'm finding out
what's critically important toyou and what defines success by
asking questions, how often doyou travel?
(45:11):
Tell me what you do now and youknow, you obviously had board
meetings last year.
What did you do then when, thenwhen I quote my price, I can.
Mirror back.
I can quote back to them whatthey said to me.
You know, you, you, I hear somepeople say, and yes, we are more
(45:33):
expensive than Uber X or UberBlack, but we don't have any,
um, surge prices and we'reguaranteed.
But you told me last year thatat this board meeting, your
provider was late and thevehicles were dirty.
Yeah.
We, we are definitely gonna behigher priced, but we're never
(45:53):
gonna do that to you.
So you can, when you do thepractice value selling, they're
giving you the ammunition,aren't they
Julie Thomas (46:00):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
But you can't fall back on whatthey've told you if you don't
know it in the first place.
And too many sales reps didn'task that.
They assume it.
Um, or, or they don't ask it, orthey ask one person and then I'm
talking to another person whomight have different criteria.
(46:21):
So, you know, selling is anindividual support.
Back to something you said a fewminutes ago, it's not a script,
it's a conversation.
And that's why we focus on thequestions, to direct the
conversation.
Anytime I've ever tried ascript, it doesn't work.
'cause the customer neverfollows their lines.
(46:42):
So think of the old days.
Ken, you and I are old enough toremember telemarketers calling
our home phone every night at6:00 PM when we
Ken Lucci (46:51):
Oh, at dinner, it never fail.
You sit down for dinner And thetelemarketer is gonna call the
home phone, no question about
Julie Thomas (46:56):
And it didn't matter what you said on the
phone, they kept reading theirscripts
Ken Lucci (47:02):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (47:03):
the only way to get rid of them was ultimately
to hang up because they weren'tlistening.
They weren't, it, they, theyjust went through their script.
It didn't matter what you said.
They asked a first question.
It didn't matter what you said.
They asked the se, they wentright into their script.
It
Ken Lucci (47:20):
act,
Julie Thomas (47:21):
work.
Ken Lucci (47:21):
it's actually insulting to your intelligent So
before we go, I wanna touch ontwo critical things.
One is what you call land andexpand.
Talk to me about that Land andexpand the concept of landing
and, and then expanding service.
Julie Thomas (47:39):
so the idea is with a new logo or a new
customer, you land them with asmaller opportunity.
With an intentional approach togrow that revenue or business or
footprint over time.
So it might be land that firstmeeting, that first airport
(48:03):
trip, that first board meeting,that first event with the
intention of, I'm going to growand try to build a broader,
deeper relationship to becomeyour preferred transportation
for all your transportationneeds.
But I might have to prove myvalue, prove that I'm worth it
(48:23):
with that smaller piece, ofbusiness first to mitigate their
risk, that they're making abigger, longer term commitment
to an unknown.
Ken Lucci (48:34):
Uh, agreed.
Now that speaks to me in twoways.
Number one, knowing the truelifetime value of a customer,
okay?
And, and, and finding a way towin their trust absolutely.
Become the most credible in themarketplace, to provide the
service that we provide.
(48:55):
And then anything after thatagree or disagree, they're gonna
be less price sensitive to beginat, at, at that point, after you
have that, if you, after youhave that seat in their mind.
Julie Thomas (49:08):
I think so.
I think so.
I mean, it, it doesn't meanthat, I mean, we can't take
advantage of them and, and, youknow, with ridiculous prices,
but we don't have a low costalternative to win.
Ken Lucci (49:20):
agreed.
Julie Thomas (49:21):
you know, so absolutely once you become their
preference for whatever reason,whether it's a tangible or an
intangible.
You're their preference now, butthere's a couple things that
happen.
Your competitors might be outthere trying to unseat you and
(49:42):
again, focusing on, hey, youknow, is there a reason for you
to change?
did something go wrong from thatstandpoint?
but once you're preferred, let'sface it, people are, are also
kind of lazy.
Like it's a lot of work just tofind new suppliers and new
providers.
Ken Lucci (50:00):
it's exhausting.
Julie Thomas (50:01):
Yeah.
And, and so, you know, oncewe've won it, then we need to
continually delight them andcontinually make sure we're
calling out the value andreinforcing that the outcomes
they expected, um, have beenrealized.
Ken Lucci (50:21):
Always check in after every transaction, especially in
the beginning, but always checkin to make sure everything went
perfect, whether it's a, a textmessage, email, or a follow up
phone call.
Always ask for the review.
The other piece to me aboutlanding and expanding is that
we've, as an industry failedmiserably at, is building
(50:41):
consistent use cases for peopleto try different, try us in
different settings, try uh,different ways of doing, of
working with us.
talked to somebody the other dayand was like, Ken, I have limo
buses on my website.
I'm like, you are not giving thecorporation a use case of why
they would want to put theirpeople in your limo bus.
(51:02):
You're selling the product,you're selling the vehicle, and
that's not what works.
Sell the experience.
So land and expand to me isalways letting them know other
ways that we can serve theirneeds.
Asking the questions.
Do you have a salesorganization?
Absolutely.
Tell me something.
How do you keep'em motivated?
(51:23):
How do you keep them, how do youreward them at the end of the
month?
we do these contests.
We do this.
What do you think about usproviding a night out for them
to top golf?
We're gonna put them in a limobus.
I can't provide alcohol, but youcan bring it on if you want or
if you don't wanna do that, I'llset up refreshments and snacks.
(51:43):
What do you think about that?
So the land and expand isletting everybody know what we
do and how we can serve thembest.
Um, there's a big thing in theindu in our industry about,
well, we provide service in 600cities.
Terrific.
Nobody gives a shit when they'rereading that on your website.
Tell me, Julia, do you have anytravel coming up?
Personal?
How about any personalprofessional travel coming up?
(52:06):
You know, my husband and I aregoing over to Europe this
summer.
Can I make a suggestion?
Where are you landing?
Let me price something out.
I'm, it'll be a one securetransaction because now you
won't have to give your creditcard to anybody overseas.
I'm gonna take care of this foryou.
So again, the land and expand,it's about maximizing the
lifetime value of that customer.
(52:27):
And you're not spending anymoreto get another prospect through
the door, you're se it's theaxiom of selling one person five
times versus spending the moneyto develop five leads and sell
them once.
It just makes all the sense inthe world.
Um, as we finish up, couple ofthings.
(52:48):
How do you feel about chatbotsonline quoting tools and the the
thought process that business istrying to replace, the
interaction between the humanbeings on the sales process.
Julie Thomas (53:01):
Well, I think the genie's outta the bottle for
certain things.
Um, I, I, I mean, I thinkthey're here to stay.
There's no winding that back.
Um, I think you have to look atthe buyer's experience, and the
reality is, in some cases,salespeople have not added value
(53:22):
to the buyer's experience.
And that's why all of a sudden,hey, if I can do a self-service
automated solution, it's betterfor me because the salespeople
aren't adding value.
So I think you really have tolook at what are the things that
can be automated and what arethe things that, the buyer does
(53:44):
expect to be able to self-serve?
Then where can you add value,um, over time?
And, um, but I think chat, chatbots, uh, you know, they're not
going away.
Ken Lucci (53:58):
They're, they're not, but you know, they can't,
they're also not the panacea.
Um, and, and to me, if you thinkthat the, that the automated,
once the lead comes in and theyrequest a quote, if you think
three emails is gonna increaseyour closing without human
interaction, you're wrong.
I mean, I can say case by caseby case where somebody goes on a
(54:20):
website, fills out a form, theymay get an automated price.
But you can increase yourclosing ratio by 30 to 40% by
interacting on a human levelright then and there.
Right.
Not being intrusive.
Hey, I, I saw you ask forservice to the airport.
Do you have a few minutes?
You know, do you have a fewminutes or, I saw you requested
(54:41):
service in a Sprinter for fivehours, uh, to go out next
Thursday night.
Do you have a few minutes sothat I can understand what, what
you're trying to do?
Because I see so many operatorsthat are so many businesses in
general, they, they're, they'regoing to Google, they're doing
Google, PPC ads.
They're going to, they're gonnaautomate their entire sales
(55:03):
process.
And what happens is they'regenerating leads, but they, the
sales, the closing ratios are,are terrible and leads are
dropping on the floor.
So I.
Julie Thomas (55:14):
Yeah, I mean, I, I think that's, i, I, I don't
think a hundred percentautomated process is gonna serve
the buyer well.
'cause buyers make mistakes allthe time and they buy the wrong
stuff for the wrong reason.
So the second we take the humanelement out of that, I think the
buyer is at risk.
(55:34):
Some of those buyers won'trecognize that until they get
burned.
Ken Lucci (55:38):
And then they'll write you a shitty review
because they
Julie Thomas (55:40):
it's never their fault.
It's always our
Ken Lucci (55:43):
no.
No, buddy.
Julie Thomas (55:44):
but, I do think that's the problem with, with
some of that, it, it assumesthat I've got, that I know with
a hundred percent certaintyexactly what my needs are and I
am self-selecting what thoseare.
And the reality is, most of thetime we're the questions we out
(56:06):
ask.
Help the buyer better, gainbetter insight to what those
needs really are
Ken Lucci (56:14):
I.
Julie Thomas (56:14):
that they are selecting the right options for
Ken Lucci (56:16):
Correct especially on the more comp in our industry,
on the more complex moves.
Right.
I always say tell people, youknow, once I've chosen a
Marriott, uh, you know, JWMarriott or Ritz Carlton, that's
where I wanna stay.
I really don't wanna talk toanybody.
Okay?
But if I'm having a meeting atthe Ritz Carlton, Pentagon City,
I want understand what roomsthey have available for that
(56:38):
service.
So I think it tech is two, twothings.
First of all, the tech in ourindustry is terrible.
It's, we've, we've had 15 yearsnow thereabouts to catch up with
Uber, and we've not even takenthe first steps.
So we've taken, we've takingadvantage, or excuse me, not
taking advantage of the orderingand logistics, um, technology
(57:00):
that now the millennials expect.
They, they do everything on anapp.
We've done, we've done aterrible job at that.
So I preach that I want to haveall of, I want the industry to
move towards all vanilla icecream reservations online after
you've created the relationship,after you've opened up the
account.
So talk to us about, in, inclosing, talk to us about if, if
(57:22):
you're a sale, if you're a, asmall business owner, how do you
yourself, if you are the guythat's answering the phone and
taking rides or answering thephones and dispatching, how do
you avoid letting the noise ofyour business stop you from
learning these skills?
Julie Thomas (57:40):
Well, you have to be intentional.
You have to, you have torecognize that if you are not
growing your skillset and yourmindset, you will become
irrelevant in today's techenabled world, but you, it has
to be a priority because let'sface it, we're all busy.
(58:03):
Our days all get away from us.
Ken Lucci (58:06):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (58:07):
But the things that I prioritize are the things
that get done.
And to me that's, you know, Ithink time management is a bunch
of hogwash, right?
You don't manage time, youprioritize.
And for me, my priorities are onmy calendar
Ken Lucci (58:24):
Yep.
Julie Thomas (58:25):
and I time block things.
And if I don't, if they're noton my calendar, there's a good
chance they won't get done.
So I manage my priorities bymaking sure I'm putting time on
them on my calendar.
I saw a woman interviewedyesterday on one of the morning
shows, and she had gone througha massive career change.
(58:48):
And she talked about the, theday that she recognized that
what she was doing was not inalignment with her values.
And she did that by color codingher calendar.
And so, you know, red was workactivities, green was
faith-based activities, blue wasfamily activities.
(59:11):
And she said, I looked at mycalendar and, and the two most
important priorities in my lifewere my family and my faith, and
my calendar was a hundredpercent read with work.
Ken Lucci (59:24):
Absolutely.
Julie Thomas (59:24):
And she said, I had that visual.
And that's what led me to makethe decision that I was gonna
change my priorities.
I think we all have to look atwhat our priorities are, and if
your priorities are staying ontop of your game, you gotta
calendar it into your calendar.
Ken Lucci (59:44):
No, no question.
Julie Thomas (59:45):
when are you gonna learn?
Ken Lucci (59:46):
Yeah.
And, and dealing with smallbusiness people, it, it's a
little bit challenging becausethey look at one box every day.
They go, they open one door andthey look inside that room, and
that's their whole life.
And I usually, I usually findthat it's not the market that's
the problem, it's their mindset.
We've always done it this way.
And we're, we are in acommodity.
(01:00:08):
We can't sell value.
And that to me is the completelywrong mindset.
I don't believe that anything isa commodity.
I can hire a painter to paint myhouse, right?
And he can literally drive up ina, in a shitbox pickup truck.
Or I can find someone that Itrust who understands that I
don't want to do this again nextyear.
I want you, I wanna understandthe best way to do this.
(01:00:31):
The result is the same goodlooking house, right?
Clean painted house.
But am I gonna have to do thisagain?
Am I making a mistake here?
And I think you only do thatwith selling value.
I, I think you're only doingthat by learning what's most
important to your client.
Julie Thomas (01:00:46):
So one of our large corporate clients is
Kimberly Clark Professional,
Ken Lucci (01:00:52):
Oh gosh, sure.
Julie Thomas (01:00:53):
and they come to us for value selling.
Now, for those of you who, whodon't know what Kimberly Clark
professional sells, toiletpaper, Kleenex, paper towels,
and soap to places that havepublic restrooms, arenas,
hotels,
Ken Lucci (01:01:11):
yep,
Julie Thomas (01:01:12):
airports,
Ken Lucci (01:01:13):
yep.
Julie Thomas (01:01:15):
they focus on value.
Ken Lucci (01:01:18):
Right.
Julie Thomas (01:01:19):
They're not.
And, and, and you probably don'twant to use the lowest cost
toilet paper or tissue in yourlife, but if we can help
Kimberly Clark compete on valueselling paper towels and toilet
paper, I think we can help thetransportation industry.
Ken Lucci (01:01:38):
a hundred percent.
And that's per, that is aperfect segue into thank you so
much for doing this, but I wantyou to tell people how to, first
of all, how to get the book andthe second of all, how do they
do, how does a small businessperson best way to get in touch
with you and do business withyou?
Julie Thomas (01:01:54):
Great.
I'm going to give you fourpieces of information.
First of all, you can find me onLinkedIn, Julie Thomas, value
Selling Associates.
I am not hard to find.
Please connect with me onLinkedIn.
I'd love to hear from you.
Number two, you can buy my bookon Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
Any, any place where you buy,buy your books.
(01:02:16):
It is the power of valueselling.
The gold standard for drivingrevenue and creating customers
for life.
Um, and then, um, I'm gonna giveyou two websites.
the website that serves our B2Bcorporate clients is value
selling.com, and tons ofresources on there.
(01:02:40):
Uh, we also have a podcast.
There's all kinds of informationon there, but the, the website
for the program that we createdfor entrepreneurs and individual
sales reps is called Grow,G-R-O-W-I-S-T, grow us.com, and
you'll find information aboutour online program for
(01:03:03):
individual sellers.
Ken Lucci (01:03:05):
You know, and I, I honestly, I never endorse or
recommend every time I've doneit for like digital marketing
companies or, you know, we vetbookkeepers, we, we, we
recommend them.
But anytime I do arecommendation, I, I risk
getting burned.
But I will tell you, your bookmoves me so much and, and
(01:03:26):
dovetailed into my dailyconversations with operators who
said to me, I can't go up on myprice.
My competitors are too lowpriced.
I can't go up on my price.
The national network is, is muchlower price than I do.
And I would say, it's not yourmarket, it's not your
competitors, it's your mindsetand it's your process.
(01:03:47):
If you're leading with price,you're losing.
And it really resonated with me.
And listen, I'm 60 years old,I've been selling a lot of
stuff, and I, I was an operator.
And when you're talking aboutthe most, getting you from place
to place on the most importantdays, the most important events
of your life or your career, youcan't focus on low price, but
(01:04:09):
you have to find a way todifferentiate value, and you do
it by the selling value process.
So, Julie Thomas, thank you somuch for agreeing to do this.
I know a lot of business peoplehave books on the market.
I had a book that's not evenreadable, but your book really
is, to me, the best investmentthese people could make.
(01:04:30):
And it's also visit growers.com,and that's for small business
people, small businesses andsolopreneurs.
And I, I think it's the bestpossible thing they could do for
their businesses.
So thank you so much, um, foragreeing, and I hope to talk to
you again soon.
Julie Thomas (01:04:49):
My pleasure, Ken.
Thank you for having me.
Have a great day.
Ken Lucci (01:04:52):
All right, terrific.
Thanks, Julie.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to
(01:05:15):
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.
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