September 3, 2025 • 58 mins
Welcome to another exciting episode of the Ground Transportation Podcast. Host James Blain discusses the future of the global chauffeur industry with Dr. Vojkan Tasic, founder and CEO of Limos4. Vojkan shares his journey from an engineering background to revolutionizing the limo business, focusing on building a booking platform, the significance of quality assurance, and the strategic expansion of his company. The conversation dives into the critical differences between the US and European executive transportation markets, the impact of AI and autonomous vehicles in the industry, and best practices for leveraging technology to stay ahead.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction & Background
05:40 What Makes a Successful Platform
08:15 The Big Difference Between Europe and the US
18:10 How Rideshare Effected the European Market
23:49 Chauffered Means More Than Just a Vehicle
28:35 Finding Affiliates that Meet Your Standards
37:08 Ideal Clients & The Secret Sauce
41:53 What does the Future Hold
47:39 Biggest Opportunity in the Industry Today
Connect with Vojkan Tasic on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vojkantasic/
Visit Limos4 Website: https://www.limos4.com/
At Driving Transactions, Ken Lucci and his team offer financial analysis, KPI reviews, for specific purposes like improving profitability, enhancing the value of the enterprise business planning and buying and selling companies. So if you have any of those needs, please give us a call or check us out at www.drivingtransactions.com.
Pax Training is your all in one solution designed to elevate your team's skills, boost passenger satisfaction, and keep your business ahead of the curve. Learn more at www.paxtraining.com/gtp
Connect with Kenneth Lucci, Principle Analyst at Driving Transactions:
https://www.drivingtransactions.com/
Connect with James Blain, President at PAX Training:
https://paxtraining.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James Blain (00:26):
Hi there everybody, and welcome back to another
episode of the GroundTransportation Podcast.
I am your host James Blaine forPAXs training.
Unfortunately, I am not joinedby my wonderful co-host Ken
Lucci today.
He is no doubt out making a hugedeal that will revolutionize and
change the industry with anacquisition or merger or sale.
hopefully I'll be able to bejoined by him on our next
episode.
(00:46):
I'm super excited though todayabout our guest.
We are going international.
We are, thankfully enough goingto a part of the world that I'm
familiar with.
We're gonna be talking withVocon and guys, I gotta tell
you, founder and CEO of limos.
Four comes from a techbackground similar to mine,
actually has a PhD inInformation Systems.
Absolutely incredible person.
(01:06):
I'm super excited to have you onthe show.
Welcome.
Vojkan Tasic (01:10):
Thank you James for very warm welcome and uh,
I'm very happy to be here.
James Blain (01:14):
Now I'm excited to have you.
So, like many of us, you did notgrow up drawing little chauffeur
hats and limos and everything onyour binders in school.
So tell us how do you come to bein the business?
What's kinda your background?
How do you get here?
Vojkan Tasic (01:29):
Yes.
So like, uh, in most cases, uh,life doesn't take you where,
where you plan to be.
I plan to be, an astronaut.
but I figured out, you know, youhave to be born in the, on the
US soil, which was not, not, uh,not the case.
So I had to find something else,you know, so I was, uh, and
besides that, I figured out youhave to have, uh, like two or
(01:49):
three PhDs in order, to be anastronaut.
So I, I just got one, um, whichis Still not enough.
So I'm a,
James Blain (01:55):
more than the rest of us in, in most cases.
So.
Vojkan Tasic (01:58):
a failed astronaut.
But, yeah, jokes aside, uh, I'man engineer, electrical
engineering, and I also did aPhD in information systems.
my, my journey to, uh, to thisvery interesting, uh, uh, niche
of, of, transportation or, orlet's say travel, goes back to
2009, uh, when I was inSwitzerland doing my, my master
(02:19):
thesis in, uh, A-B-B-A-B.
B is one of those hugecompanies, doing robots, robotic
lines, trains, hydropower,plants, uh, and so on.
I needed some, pretty muchpocket money and um, and the guy
asked me to build a bookingplatform for his, uh, upcoming
limo business.
(02:39):
And, uh, yeah, I said yes, I didit for a couple of weeks.
With, back then it was, it wasquite, uh, quite simple and.
A month later, he calls me backand says, look, this stuff that
you built, uh, I actuallycannot, live with it.
I'm getting so many requests nowin English and I don't speak any
English.
Can you, can you please help meout now with this?
(03:01):
Because you did it.
And, uh, yeah, we made some kindof a business arrangement there.
so I started to do reservations,uh, partly dispatching for, for
his new business with like fivecars.
and I was doing it in parallelwith, with the start of my PhD.
So very quickly I figured out Icannot do it myself because,
(03:23):
doing PhD at ETH in Zurich is,uh, very demanding.
Uh, it's one of the top, uh,universities in Europe.
Uh, so we had to do lots of EUprojects, lots of paper writing,
uh, it was, there was lot, ofteaching as well.
So I found the first guy.
Who will help me out because I'moriginally from Serbia and, uh,
(03:44):
I, I found somebody from Serbiawho could help me out.
Uh, so it, it's nowadays my COOSasha Christi and, uh, Yeah.
that's, that's how everythingstarted.
We, we were working for this guyin Zurich for a little bit more
than a year.
And, and we figured out that weare sending lots of work in
other cities where we don't havecars.
James Blain (04:03):
Okay.
Affiliate game.
Vojkan Tasic (04:04):
Exactly.
I feel people, I feel like,because we were quite new to the
business, we knew nothing aboutit, you know?
and we, he simply, offered thisguy to do this worldwide.
You know, we said, look, weoffer you to do this, whatever
we do in Zurich, to do itworldwide.
he just needed to pay for Googleads because Google ads were
(04:27):
really big
James Blain (04:27):
What, year is this?
What timeframe are we talking
Vojkan Tasic (04:29):
that's end of 2010.
End
James Blain (04:31):
Okay.
End of 2010.
Vojkan Tasic (04:33):
Yeah, exactly.
and he said, uh, luckily he saidno.
So we continued on our own.
We did a, nice research, whichmarkets are, very good for this
business.
So we came as a result.
Believe it or not, it wasCopenhagen for some reason
because it was a one of the hubsfor, uh, cruises back then.
It was, it was really big.
(04:53):
and that's, that's pretty muchhow we started.
James Blain (04:56):
So tell us a little bit, you know, you're, you're
talking about your earlyplatform, you're talking about
kinda your first foray.
most people don't get into thisbusiness by building a booking
platform.
I think it should be said thatis quite the undertaking, you
know, as someone that kind worksin somewhat of a tech sector,
right?
We're in the middle ofrebuilding the PAC training
platform.
We're in the riddle of doingthat.
(05:17):
And, and I, like you came fromkind of software background and
a tech background, and I cantell you, and I'm sure you'll
agree, it's not exactlysomething you do over a weekend.
Right.
now when you're building thatplatform, what are the things
that you're worried about?
where was kind of your headspace?
And then how does that morphinto where you're at today?
Did that help you?
(05:37):
Was that just kind of a steppingstone?
Vojkan Tasic (05:40):
In order to have a successful platform, you need to
have two components, Right.
Number one is domain knowledge,which we had no idea about to be
honest.
Uh, and the second one, you needto have technical knowledge.
You need to know how to do it.
usually there are lots ofengineers going around with
crazy ideas.
Nobody wants to buy, you know?
and we, we were lucky.
We had, uh, an experiment goingon live, uh, which we could test
(06:04):
it on.
and that was, very good becausethe feedback was immediate.
You know, we didn't, uh, work onsomething for months and months
without testing it.
The feedback was immediate and,uh, that was the crucial point
for later.
For later on.
James Blain (06:17):
Okay.
So I think it, what I'm hearingis a lot of this really kind of
comes down to just, just gettingit done and kind of moving
forward now.
Where you're at in the businesstoday, I think is worth noting.
You mentioned you're doing a lotof English speaking work.
Is that still the case?
Vojkan Tasic (06:35):
Uh, yes.
our main markets Right, now arethe Western Europe, uh, and, uh,
and, and US obviously we'represent in 200 cities worldwide,
with, special focus on, onquality.
So, I mean, obviouslyeverybody's saying that, right.
Uh, everybody has quality and,and so on, but I cannot say how
(06:57):
many companies have, full-timeteams that are going around the
world and really vetting, thepartners, you know, in some,
requirements we had.
cases where, we had to check thetires.
The date of the tire productionneeded to be checked.
That is not older than than fiveyears because that was, uh, one
of the requirements.
(07:18):
Um, and that's what we arereally proud of, and which also
I, I, I keep repeating, youknow, limo four is not in the,
chauffeur service or limousinebusiness.
We are more in quality assurancebusiness.
James Blain (07:31):
Right.
Well, and I think it's worthnoting a couple things, right?
You know this'cause we'vetalked, but my family background
is very much tied to Spain rightnow.
Anybody watching this on YouTubeis like what?
Um, but again, my, I have hugeties to Spain.
I still have lots of familythere.
That's where I was married,that's where I spent a lot of my
childhood.
And I think one of the thingsthat at least if you are used to
(07:54):
the American side of thebusiness, if you're used to
things, kind of how they operatehere is you don't quite have
that same understanding of whatthe chauffeur services industry
is in Europe.
So can you help us understand,as someone that's kind of
traveled back and forth, setkinda the stage for me of if I
am an American operator.
(08:15):
What things look like hereversus if I'm trying to get a
big picture kind ofunderstanding of the layout in
Europe.
How do they differ?
What's kind of the differencebetween them?
Vojkan Tasic (08:26):
Yeah.
so there are a couple of bigdifferences.
So I think the biggest one isfor, there are lots of new
companies in, uh, in us, newlimo companies.
And, uh, for them, I think themain message is, guys, we don't
have SUVs in Europe.
You know, don't ask for SUVs.
James Blain (08:42):
What?
There's no suburbans drivingthrough the streets of Europe.
Vojkan Tasic (08:47):
you know, our streets are built, couple of
hundreds of years ago when, uh,only horses needed to pass
through.
James Blain (08:53):
The width of a horse.
That's what you got.
Vojkan Tasic (08:55):
exactly.
So Suburbans escalates.
Forget about it.
Too tight.
so instead of that, we have, um,something else.
It's not as fancy as anEscalade, but it's, uh,
Mercedes, V class.
That's the standard, uh, whichcan be very luxury inside as
well.
And, uh, I think this is themain difference, that comes to
my mind.
Uh, right now there are a coupleof more differences, obviously.
(09:18):
so another one is how much inadvance.
We can give you driver's number,right?
In Europe, we can give it to youeven 24 hours
James Blain (09:27):
Yeah,
Vojkan Tasic (09:28):
even for a transfer, not for a full day
service.
so, even for a transfer, we cangive it to you
James Blain (09:32):
so, so talk about that for a second.
What allows you to do that
Vojkan Tasic (09:36):
Cancellation policy.
James Blain (09:37):
okay, there you go.
Vojkan Tasic (09:38):
Cancellation policy number one, number two,
size of fleets.
You know, in Europe, it's veryrare to find this fleet that is
bigger than 20.
James Blain (09:47):
Yeah.
Vojkan Tasic (09:48):
And if you, if you have 20, your, planning
capabilities, don't need to beas real time as if you have 120.
You know, if you have 120, youcannot plan for tomorrow because
you have no idea how manychanges you will have.
And you need to react instantly.
And that's what's happening in,in us, Right.
You guys have really huge fleetsand you have to plan almost in
(10:11):
real time.
And that's why cancellation,policy is, two hours in most,
uh, US cities.
But in Europe, you, you don'thave two hours.
That's, that's impossible to getit.
So that's why you get 24 hourscancellation, but you also get
driver's information, at least24 hours ahead.
James Blain (10:29):
Well, and I think another thing worth noting, you
know, when I, when I typically,when when I go back to see my
family, when I go home to Spain,I'm flying into Bajas.
Right?
Which, for those that don'tknow, is the, the main airport
in Madrid.
And one of the things that Ialways notice when I get off
that plane, right, I'm luckyenough, I've always got family
there to greet me.
I'm typically not taking a blackcar.
But when you look at thosechauffeurs standing there.
(10:53):
The cut of the suit, thephysical fitness of the
chauffeur, the way they holdthemselves, the way they carry
themselves.
There is something there thatyou don't see as often in US
cities because one of the thingsthat people don't realize is it
is considered to be a lot moreof a career path.
It's a lot more of a prestigiousrole, whereas a lot of times
(11:14):
here in the United States,people think, you know, oh, you
know, anybody can go be achauffeur.
And it's a stepping stone job.
It's not like a a career job.
But you see a lot of people thatsee being a chauffeur as a true
career path.
There's a very clear cutdistinction between what it is
to be a chauffeur and what it'sto be a taxi driver.
Now, that said, I've spent thePax 10 years at PAX training,
(11:37):
helping companies make that hugedistinction.
Trying to bring that same feel,that same kind of idea to the
us.
Now we're still focused onsafety and everything else, but
I think that's something that,at least in terms of a cultural
distinction exists in Europewhere it feels like here in the
United States, the line betweena chauffeur and taxied services
(12:00):
is a little blurrier.
It's a little more indistinct attimes.
Whereas I think Europe has kindof a harder distinction.
Can you talk to us a bit aboutthat and how that kinda works in
practice over there?
Vojkan Tasic (12:13):
Yeah.
so I, I think there is oneprimary reason why, why this is
the case.
historically speaking, taxes inEurope are of much better
quality, than in us.
And that's why black carservice, in us took lots of
these, customers that wouldtraditionally go buy taxes in
Europe.
So they u they're using blackcar service in in us, and, this
(12:34):
enabled black car service,Orford, service, uh, companies
to grow much bigger fleets andhave much, uh, much more
revenue.
and.
As a result, um, as you said,this line between taxes and, uh,
and, and limos are not asdistinct and as in Europe.
So in Europe, you had a veryclear line and, most of the
(12:57):
people that were just using taxibecause it's super safe, very
nice inside.
in most German cities, eClass isa standard for a taxi, so you,
you get like Almost the toppremium quality for, regular
taxi.
And, uh, not so many peoplewere, choosing, uh, a black car
service or chare service.
Right.
and there is also I think alittle bit of a men mentality.
(13:19):
topic,
James Blain (13:20):
Almost to a cultural difference.
Vojkan Tasic (13:22):
difference in us.
uh, I think people like to showoff a little bit more than in
Europe.
I know billionaires, literally
James Blain (13:29):
Are, are you stereotyping Americans as liking
to show off because you'vepegged us for who we are?
Vojkan Tasic (13:34):
based on my, my personal experience because I,
I've never seen a billionaire inus taking a tram, you know?
But I, have seen a billionairein Zurich taking a tram,
James Blain (13:44):
Yeah.
I, I can't see Jeff Bezos beinglike, guys, guys, we're, we're
not taking the private jet.
We're not taking the helicopter,we're going Amtrak today.
I just, I don't see thathappening, but I can tell you,
you know, at least in, in Spain,The public transportation
system.
even when I've, I've been up toother European countries down
there, you can take publictransit and it's a lot more
(14:06):
commonplace to do that, youknow, the, the subway and the
metro systems, I would say in, Ihave yet to see somewhere in
Europe where their subway ormetro system isn't better than
the best of what New York orChicago or any, you know,
California, you know, you've gotall these places in the US to
(14:27):
have them, but there reallyisn't much in the US that
compares to that level.
And I think you're absolutelyright.
It's something that where, youknow, that CEO or that business
person probably grew up writingthat their whole life and they
feel safe, they feelcomfortable.
You are not going to see TimCook's not gonna get on an
Amtrak and go to a businessmeeting.
Vojkan Tasic (14:47):
It.
It's also that cities are alittle bit more centralized, a
little bit more.
All European cities arewalkable, so in US you don't
have that many walk up cities,so you have to jump on a car or
something else.
And, And there are manyparameters that is actually
affecting what you were justsaying.
You know, the, uh, market inEurope is much smaller, and
that's why they can pay maybe alittle bit better.
(15:08):
And, a little bit moredifferentiated from other
shoppers or drivers.
and that's why, why you gotthis, uh, job stickiness of, of
these people that they can, uh,be more proud of it.
James Blain (15:19):
Well, and let me, let me kinda shift gears for
another moment because tell usabout, you know, I, I don't know
how familiar you're with theretail market here in the us,
you know, but it, at least in myexperience, the retail market in
Europe operates a lotdifferently than the retail
market here.
Obviously, you know, you've got,you've got certain cities that
(15:39):
in Europe that are gonna be moredriven towards, you know,
nightlife or those types ofthings where the, the black car
industry or, or even the tourismindustry is gonna adapt a
little.
But the retail business alsooperates a little different over
there as well.
Can you tell us a little bit onthat side?
Vojkan Tasic (15:54):
Yes.
Retail business in, in Europe ismuch smaller than in us.
we have proms Yes.
Weddings.
Yes.
but you know, this, this kind ofmovie, night outs, uh, fancy
dinners, uh, that's almostnonexisting in, in Europe, you
know, and most of the retail weare getting from, uh, this
business is, uh, coming from us,you know, people coming from us
(16:17):
and they really use lots ofthese services.
And some of the suppliers areeven, uh, you know, surprised
that somebody's taking a limofor this kind of, uh, o
occasions, retail business isalso on another, uh, hand, very
complicated.
You know, it takes, uh, way moretouch points than for, for
regular business rides.
and that's why everybody'strying to, to avoid it.
(16:40):
And also we have shifted ourstrategy, towards corporate
travel and, events,transportation rather than going
for, for retail because it'ssmall.
and in, in Europe we are alittle bit behind you guys,
because, um, when you say limo,people still think, uh, about
stretch, you know?
Uh, and I hope we will get ridof this one soon.
James Blain (17:01):
Well, and I think, I think another thing worth
noting here, you know, we'veseen things like congestion
pricing in New York.
We've seen like things likethat.
But, you know, Europe was reallyone of the early adopters.
You know, I remember when Ifirst found out about the cities
going in and saying, Hey, we'regoing to have this zone of the
city where it's electrical only.
you know, you can't have avehicle older than the year
(17:22):
2000, or you can't have, youknow, certain vehicles.
So unlike the United Stateswhere it's very common for me to
say, Hey, you know, I'm gonnahave a night out with my wife,
we're gonna have a car, take usdowntown, we're gonna do that.
a lot of that, like you said,becomes more complex.
And of course, you know, havingthe, the year model, things like
that are simple.
But I think.
To your point early aboutwalkable cities and public
(17:45):
transportation and these typesof things, the European cities
are not built with that samestate of mind that we have here
in the US of, Hey, we'll justget a car.
And I think one of the thingsI'd also like you to talk about
is I think a lot of thesedifferences changed the way that
Rideshare and TNCs affected theEuropean companies versus the
(18:09):
American companies.
So can you tell us a little bitabout what that kinda looked
like for you guys when thathappened?
Vojkan Tasic (18:15):
Yeah.
because this, differentiationbetween taxes and, uh, and
limos, it was already done.
You know, when and when Ubercame, they just attacked the
taxi business.
So they almost didn't touch, thechauffeur service segment.
but as, as we said, this linewas not very clear in us.
So they attacked both.
They, uh, pretty much decimatedtaxi business right now.
(18:38):
And, I don't know the numbers,but I don't think it, affected
the limo business as much astaxi, obviously.
James Blain (18:46):
No, and I, I think back to when I first got into
this business roughly 10 yearsago, I remember people, you
know, Uber and, and all of thisand Rideshare and Lyft, and
it's, it's gonna do this.
And one of the big things that Ifound myself repeating over and
over and over is, why are youcompeting with them?
Why are you allowing yourself tocompete with what should be on
(19:08):
the taxi level?
Right?
if you are trying to competewith a taxi, with an Uber,
right?
doesn't make sense because youshould be providing a higher
level of service.
You should be providing, youknow, a nicer vehicle.
You should be providing, a saferexperience.
You should be providing all ofthese things that puts you in a
completely and totally differentcategory than that type of
(19:32):
business.
And I think what we've seenhappen is we had that
distinction happen, and then Ithink now what we're seeing is
TNC and Rideshare is now tryingto go the other direction.
Right?
Whereas all of the companiessuccessfully came outta COVID.
I think we reached a point whereyou have all of these people
that came out head and shouldersabove we, we don't match at all.
(19:54):
Now the TNCs are trying to havetheir premium levels and their
black levels and things likethat, but they're still not
sending chauffeurs They'retaking those same taxi drivers
and putting them into chauffeurservices, vehicles like
Suburbans, Escalades, vehicleslike that.
And you have that distinction.
And I think early on in thebusiness, what we saw is we saw
(20:15):
this blurry line happen betweentaxi and chauffeur, and the
difference was the car.
And I think where the industrywas for a while on the chauffeur
services side is now kind ofwhere the TNCs and the rideshare
companies are stuck.
Whereas I don't know that inEurope we kind of saw those
cycles happen, or at least notin the parts of Europe where I
(20:37):
grew up.
Vojkan Tasic (20:39):
Yes, in, in most cities it was forbidden in the
beginning.
And, uh, uh, as I said it, itaffected predominantly taxes.
But what you just said is, isone of the biggest issue we have
in our industry.
Everybody's focusing on theirbrand new Escalade and showing
off how fancy it is, but they'renot focusing on, uh, on the
chauffeurs, right?
And what are the capabilities ofthe chauffeurs?
(21:00):
do they really know how tohandle different cultures?
When, when the guests from Japancomes, do they know how to greet
them?
Do they really know how to openthe door?
You know, do they have, uh, allthe checklist to do before
starting the ride?
and all this stuff, regulardriver or regular taxi driver,
he doesn't really care.
Uh, and, uh, and, and this, thisbrought, this actually blurred
(21:23):
this line between TNCs and uh,and our industry.
James Blain (21:28):
Oh, and look, I, we talk about it on here all the
time because what I tell people,and this is really important to
note, is GM doesn't care.
Right?
And, and, and I'll useSuburbans, right, because we're
talking to predominantly UScustomers here, but.
They'll sell a suburban to you.
They'll sell a suburban to anUber driver, they'll sell it to
a soccer mom, they'll sell it towhoever wants to buy one.
(21:50):
Right?
they're going to sell it toanyone they want.
And so what the differencebecomes is the service you're
providing, the way they interactwith your office staff, the
experience they have with yourteam, and then guess who the
face, the feel the whole companyis.
You could have the best officestaff, you could have the best
team in the world, but if I senda chauffeur that looks like you
rolled outta bed with a cowlickand a suit that's barely on him
(22:14):
or her right, guess what?
The whole experience is gonna beruined.
And I tell people all the time,you know, our focus at PACS
training is you've got to teachthat chauffeur that they are the
core and everything revolvesaround them.
And, and the reason I brought upthe cultural earlier is that's
something that we've taughtsince day one.
It's something that I broughtover from that European
(22:37):
upbringing is if I can get youto understand this is a career
path.
This is not just a job, this isnot just a stepping stone.
If I can get you to stand alittle straighter, if I can get
you to feel a little better, ifI can get you to do that,
suddenly you start wearing thesuit differently.
You start taking care of thevehicle differently.
You start addressing thepassenger differently.
(22:58):
And it's something that we'veworked on a lot at PAXs helping
these chauffeurs understand thatyou are building on a legacy of
service and that when you dothat and you're able to provide
everything there, now you'reserving a passenger in a way
that no other industry is gonnabe able to do that no other
service is gonna be able to do.
(23:20):
And I think at least ineverything that we've seen,
that's what sets companies apartfrom a premium ride car service,
right?
Versus, you know, your premiumTNCs, all of that.
They're just taking a ride sharedriver and they're putting'em in
an Escalade.
Chauffeur services is where Iknow that my needs are being
(23:41):
anticipated.
I can trust that I've got a saferide.
I have absolute peace of mindwhen I'm with that chauffeur.
Vojkan Tasic (23:49):
Here is an idea for you.
Everybody's saying they have achauffeur service, right,
worldwide.
But this is so different fromplace to place.
It's unbelievable.
But let me give you an example.
James Blain (24:02):
Yeah.
Vojkan Tasic (24:02):
you have lots of these, aircraft where you don't
have real business seats, Right.
They put some curtains and theysay, okay, these first couple of
seats
James Blain (24:11):
Can't tell the difference.
Yeah.
Vojkan Tasic (24:13):
actually, you can't, you know, because you
know what to expect, you
James Blain (24:17):
True.
True.
Vojkan Tasic (24:18):
you, know, for as a fact, nobody will be sitting
next to you.
That's number one.
That's, that's worldwidestandard, right?
You will have much better meal.
You will have, uh, much better,service from the, from the
flight attendants.
so at least it's standardized,you know, you know what's, to
expect.
In our case, we don't know that,and each company has, uh, grade
(24:42):
A.
Drivers and they have grade C.
And, and this should be somehow,easily testable and that you can
really choose.
I wanna have, I wanna have yourbest driver.
I wanna have your superstar,right?
I, I wanna pay premium for it,but I, I need to know that this
guy is the guy, right?
And right now there is no.
(25:02):
measurement.
There is no, I mean, you know,if, if there is a suburban or an
escalate, it's very obvious,right?
But with the driver, you have noclue.
James Blain (25:11):
Well, but I've said this before, right?
I'll take the Suburban with anexcellent chauffeur over the
Escalade with a ride sharedriver every single day of the
week.
Now, it's interesting becauseyou've hit on a couple things
that we actively discuss in ourteam meetings at pax, right?
And one of the things that we'vealways wanted, we've always
tried to do is to be able to setcompanies apart, right?
(25:36):
If you are using PAX training,if you are having your drivers
go through certifications, ifyou're doing what you're
supposed to do with it, thatallows you to get that chauffeur
right?
Change them from a driver to achauffeur, be certified, be
there.
But you've brought up thisreally great point, and that's
that we have these differentlevels, or you have these
(25:56):
different types of drivers.
What I would argue is my goal isto try and get them all to that
a level.
What we found, and this issomething that I see over and
over, is it's very difficult tocut through the marketing
puffery of all of my chauffeurare the safest, the best, the
most well-trained, right?
(26:17):
There are days that I seecompanies like we have the
safest, the best, the mostamazing drivers, and I'm just
going, oh, like, like, God, youknow, I'm not, it's not me to
tell you how to run yourbusiness, but you're lying to
people because I've seen youroperation or I've ridden with
your drivers, or I know thatwe've had conversations and
(26:39):
you're like, why would I everput a dime into my drivers?
Why would I update my fleet?
Why would I do all that?
I make more money if I haveolder vehicles and I spend less
money on the dr.
You know you.
It's very hard, and one of thethings that we see a lot in this
industry, especially, this issomething I see at shows, this
is something I see when I'm atevents.
This is something I see atdinners.
(27:01):
There is this big drive in thisindustry for owners to have the
Rolex watch, the Armani suit.
Right.
Just look the part.
Absolutely.
Look the part,
Vojkan Tasic (27:13):
Hmm.
James Blain (27:13):
and what I've found is a lot of times the guys that
are a little more understated,right?
You always, you always hear thequiet money, right?
Those tend to be the ones thatkeep the money in their business
or in their fleet or in theirchauffeur.
Those tend to be the ones thatare kind of putting it in there.
(27:34):
And I think one of the thingsthat we're seeing, to your point
that you've made, you know, onthat aircraft, you have those
different levels of service.
I don't know that we're gonnareach a point where we're gonna
be able to do that on thechauffeur services industry.
But when we get to the pointwhere your economy class is ride
(27:55):
share, and your business classis chauffeur.
I can only tell the differenceby the vehicle type.
I think that's where you startgetting a breakdown and you
start getting into real trouble.
And I think the biggest issue,not so much being able to have
the classes within the chauffeurservices industry, is more the
(28:15):
fact that we have a lot ofcompanies that claim they are
world-class service, that claimthey are luxury and don't meet
any kind of standard, they don'thave adequate training for their
chauffeurs.
They don't have vehicles thatthey're taking care of.
They don't have something that,in my opinion, would kind of be
at that base.
(28:35):
I'd love you to talk about howdo you, you know, your company,
what you do, you guys have veryexacting standards when you are
looking at affiliates, whenyou're trying to figure out how
to use, how are you figuring outwhether or not they're gonna
meet your needs?
Vojkan Tasic (28:51):
so we have built over the last 10 years, um, five
step approach.
how we do the vetting.
You know, we start for, uh, withthe really basic research, using
some online databases paid andthen free ones to check for, uh,
credit scores, uh, businessregistration, and check
(29:11):
everything.
We can
James Blain (29:13):
so evaluating the business?
Vojkan Tasic (29:14):
evaluating the business?
whether they pass this firststep, then we ask for the
documentation, right?
once we ask for thedocumentation, we, we also use
some external services to checkthe documents, validity and so
on.
We even call the insurances tocheck if, these are valid.
we have seen falsified insurancepolicies as well.
James Blain (29:34):
No.
Vojkan Tasic (29:36):
And, uh, a after, after they, they pass all this,
uh, we schedule an interview,online interview.
in many occasions, we also askthem to have as many cars as
they can in the garage.
We know that's not possiblealways.
and we do a video call with themand we ask them to show us the
garage.
James Blain (29:55):
Okay.
Vojkan Tasic (29:55):
so that's the, that's the first step.
And, uh, we we, you know, wedon't wanna invest in traveling
there if, uh, if they don'tdon't fulfill the basics.
So once they, pass this one,then we go there, we go visit
them.
we have a full checklist, oftopics we need to check.
some of the, the topics, have tocheck are, a little bit stupid,
(30:16):
but we still have to check thembecause of some clients of ours
are requesting it.
for example, we need to check ifthey have proper fire
extinguishers in the, in the, inthe building.
We need to check if there is nochild labor, you know,
James Blain (30:30):
we don't let kids drive here.
Vojkan Tasic (30:32):
Yes, it's, uh, pretty much impossible, but we
need to put a official checkmark, and they need to sign it.
and, you know, we are verytransparent with all these, um,
auditing topics.
We are gonna check, uh, when wevisit them, we send it, uh,
upfront so they can, uh, theycan prepare.
If they don't have some, uh, youknow, if they have some, uh,
children, drivers, uh, they canremove them.
James Blain (30:55):
So let's let, let's stop for a second.
'cause, you know, I, I can just,I can already hear listeners
going, you're flying, you'reflying in to check on
affiliates.
Are you, how do you make thisaffordable?
Right?
How many of the affiliates areable to drop what they're doing
and let you do a site visit?
I guess walk us through and,and, you know, shout out to Ken,
(31:15):
'cause Ken is gonna come at thislater and, and be able to tell
us the money of, of what we'd beable to do here.
But help me understand Whatmakes it financially viable to
be able to do that for you, towhere you're able to go out
there and what is kind of thevolume that you guys are looking
at?
How does your business modelwork to where you are able to
actually invest that much timeand money into vetting an
(31:38):
affiliate?
Okay.
Vojkan Tasic (31:39):
So this is uh, we are that, that's a very good
question.
Uh, if you do a basic, businessmodel, it doesn't, doesn't work,
right?
But we are, financing this inmost cases from the marketing
budgets, you know, and that's,the catch.
We have a little bit different,mindset, because.
All the auditing reports in ourcase is a huge differentiation
(32:03):
point for our clients.
Uh, and if we go in front of ourclients and, and we said, look,
here is like hundreds of uh,in-person auditing reports, then
it's very easy for them todecide who they're gonna go
with.
And that's why we are winning,uh, really big accounts in the
last two years.
James Blain (32:23):
So this is a major differentiator in your
Vojkan Tasic (32:25):
this is one of the, one of the main
differentiator.
Yes.
Besides other tech topics we, wehave going on, uh, yes.
This is the, one of the, one ofthe biggest one.
But just to continue verybriefly with, with my, with my
story.
so all affiliates, uh, orpartners as we call them, after
they pass this in, in-person,uh, uh, auditing, they are
(32:46):
onboarded and then they Are inthe testing phase.
So, uh, they will have a testingnext to their, company name in
the dispatch screen.
So they are enabled for newrides, and they will be in the
testing phase.
Um, and they can receive coupleof rides, right?
And then they will be, uh,reviewed afterwards.
Our affiliate manager, willreceive an email.
(33:08):
Okay, testing phase is over.
Please review the results.
system is, uh, picking up allthe topics, right?
Whether the drivers had the,right statuses, GPS coordinates,
you know, if, if the jobs wereclosed, uh, properly, you know,
if there are no incidents, thisis all done pretty much
automatically.
And, uh, they can be put afterthis in the, in the regular,
(33:30):
working mode.
the system is monitoring them.
we are following more than 30different parameters.
for each of the partner
James Blain (33:37):
Are you able to share some of those with us?
Some of the key ones that you'relooking
Vojkan Tasic (33:40):
Yes, yes.
So we have, I think, six, sevendifferent categories.
starting from price contracting,insurance, flexibility,
punctuality, incidents, driversappearance, many, many different
topics.
And, and we have subtopics in,in which one of them, we, we
grade them, between one and 10,and we have a waiting factor for
(34:04):
each of the parameter.
And then we get a number frombetween zero and 100.
In the end.
It's a, it's a score whichactually, tells us a lot about,
about this partner.
So.
we have ghost rides as well.
from time to time we do that.
We check our partners, and wehave, pretty much yearly reviews
with each one of them to seewhat went good, what, uh, didn't
(34:26):
go so, so good.
And, uh, Yeah.
this is, this is the mainprocess we have and, uh, one of
the biggest differentiators oflimos four.
James Blain (34:34):
So let me ask you then, kind of knowing that you
have that model.
One of the things that I seethat just it makes my skin crawl
is when I see an operator andthey'll go on a Facebook group
and they'll go, Hey, I got atrip, is tomorrow 6:00 AM Who
can do it in m?
Right.
And there's no vetting.
It's, you can tell it's, I toldthis guy, I'm gonna cover the
(34:58):
trip.
I gotta find someone to coverthe trip.
And it's literal, first come,first serve.
Right.
And I, it's always, I kid younot almost the very first come,
they're like, Bob can do it.
Great.
Thanks.
And it's done.
That's it.
They're sending it to whoeverthat was on a whim.
No vetting.
how does that work for you guys?
You know, if you have asituation where, and, and I feel
(35:20):
I already know the answer tothis, but if you have a
situation where you say, Hey,we've got a business executive,
he's flying into Bozeman,Montana tomorrow, you guys, you
know, let's say you don't haveanyone, I'm sure you do, but you
don't have anyone in Bozeman,Montana.
what does that process looklike?
Or how would you guys handlethat?
And, and clearly not Facebook,but what, what would that look
like for you?
Or how would your team addressthat?
Vojkan Tasic (35:41):
Yeah, so that's a, that's a very good question.
If it's something urgent, wewill reject it.
You know, we will just say,sorry.
We cannot fulfill our qualitystandards.
And, and that's it.
We had many occasions where.
our clients, very good clients.
Of course, we won't do it foreverybody, but very good clients
say, Okay.
our executives are traveling invery, very weird place somewhere
in Africa, you know, and we,pretty much send the people
(36:04):
before that to vet the partneron the spot and, uh, and prepare
everything for, for the arrival.
And, uh, that's the only way howwe can do it.
otherwise, you know, I've, I'veseen so many horror stories.
I've seen a Coca-Cola executivebeing picked up by the random
guy in, in, Bulgaria.
Uh, you know, so, uh, it's onein one of those WhatsApp groups,
(36:25):
you know, somebody say, oh, whodo we have for this?
And, um, that's really ho andthat's why also, uh, we are one
of the top choices as anaffiliate, for, uh, biggest, US
limo companies in all thosemarkets that are not London,
Barcelona
James Blain (36:42):
They're accessing your network, essentially.
Vojkan Tasic (36:44):
Exactly, They're using our network because they
know we vetted them and theyhave one ride a month where we
have maybe one ride in two daysin these, uh, small places.
And we have full leverage thesesuppliers.
You know, we are give them morethan 30, 40% of their total
revenue.
So it's kind of an extended armof, our own fleet.
(37:05):
and this is one of the biggestadvantages that we have on the
market.
James Blain (37:08):
So let me ask you then, and, and again, I'm sure I
know the answer to this one,what is your ideal client and
where do you guys, you know, uh.
Are you purely focused on thosehigh level executives, and where
do you kind of see the growth orkind of the expansion of your
business?
Vojkan Tasic (37:26):
So we are focusing at the moment on, on two
channels, or let's say twoniche.
So, uh, one is, um, uh,executive transportation and
corporate transportation for,Medium sized companies, you
know, up to, 200 travelers andthey are not, big enough for
(37:46):
the, the biggest ones, thebiggest providers.
but they are big enough for uswhere they need a little bit
tailored, solution and they wantto pay premium for, for some,
uh, extra service there.
So that's, that's one.
And the other one is, uh,transportation for events.
That's where we have gotten, uh,really good lately, not lately
(38:06):
actually.
It's, it sounds like, uh, likeit's lately, but we've been
doing for quite some time.
Uh, and transportation forevents is one of those
non-scalable part of ourbusiness?
James Blain (38:16):
How so?
Vojkan Tasic (38:17):
You, have to, for some of the events, you have to
plan one year ahead.
You have to assign a eventmanager, just for transportation
on our end.
And he will have, uh, or she, inour case, will have, countless
emails and, uh, we never had abig event below 50 versions of
Excel file for manifest.
(38:37):
so there is lots of planninginvolved and, over the, over the
time we have built our owntechnology to improve the
scalability of it.
It's still not fully scalable,but, uh, we are ahead of
everybody else, with technologyfor, uh, event transportation
because we started, with AI waybefore JGBT, we, we started with
(38:58):
TensorFlow and uh, just thebasic neural networks.
We, so we, we have big advantagenow on the, on the market.
That's why we can do it muchfaster and so?
on.
And that's why we are doing Lotsof events now, in US as well for
one of the biggest Banks.
James Blain (39:13):
So it sounds like you're still running your own
dispatch software.
Do you guys have any plans tomake that available or is that
kind of part of your secretsauce, so to speak?
Vojkan Tasic (39:21):
So it's, we have built so many, uh, competitive
advantages in, uh, in, in thissoftware.
So we, we've been asked, all thetime to, to have it for somebody
else, but, uh, it's not builtfor that.
Uh, on, on the other side.
I mean, you know, James, youknow, software very well, and,
uh, if you have, if you neverplan for multi-tenancy, you
(39:43):
cannot have multi-tenancy.
James Blain (39:44):
No, no.
And, and for those listeningthat are going multi what?
So, so essentially when you,when you're building a software
specific for your use case andfor what you do, you essentially
build it and tailor it like asuit around yourself.
And the problem becomes makingthat suit fit like a glove on
someone else becomes reallytough.
And I think the other thingthat's really important to note
(40:06):
there is you also at that point,if you start trying to make it
fit better around other people,it starts fitting looser around
yourself.
So I, I think, one, it gives youa competitive advantage that no
one else has that, but two, Ithink that's a very smart move.
And that you understand thatsomething that's built
specifically for you and thatyou're using it for yourself.
Vojkan Tasic (40:27):
And what's very interesting about it, is that
our operations department, youknow, reservations and dispatch
is sitting 10 meters away fromthe, from the IT guys.
And, uh, all they have to do isjust, just walk five seconds and
they can freely yell at them,you know?
James Blain (40:43):
And, and now everyone that works in the
office that has ever had acomputer problem hates you.
Um, no.
It's, there's, there's a lot tobe said about that.
And I think one of the things,and Ken and I talk about this a
lot, is a lot of what we do inthis business is being able to
create systems and processes andunderstand your business because
(41:05):
you have to get it to run like awell-oiled machine.
And in a lot of businesses thatI see, they can get away with
kind of off the hip, right?
Cowboy style operations onlytill they reach about 10
vehicles.
Once you get to the point whereyou have to be able to provide,
(41:26):
like we talked about earlier,that consistency, everybody's a
team, everybody's the best, andhave it all run the way it's
supposed to.
You just have to have.
Processes in place.
And I think one of the bigadvantages that it sounds like
you've had coming frominformation systems, coming from
tech, is that you have thisappreciation for kinda that
engineering mindset.
(41:48):
There's a process, there's a wayto do it.
We're gonna create a piece ofsoftware, we're gonna create
something to do it.
So I, I know that of course,being a tech guy, it's gotta
come here.
What does the future hold andwhat do you see?
I know at least here in the USthere's a lot of talk about
autonomous, depending on who youtalk to.
It's the best thing ever, theworst thing ever.
(42:08):
It's next week, it's next 20years.
What does that look like?
And more specifically, sinceyou've got a global view, what
do you see in terms of not justautonomous, but how is AI going
to change what we do?
How is tech gonna change what wedo?
What, what are you guys lookingat to stay ahead?
Being a tech focused company?
Vojkan Tasic (42:31):
Uh.
When it comes to the future,there are two components, uh,
future in our industry.
one is ai, uh, that is actuallygoing with, uh, very, very big
speed.
Uh, another one is autonomousvehicles.
So let's start with theautonomous vehicles.
which big part of it is, uh,obviously ai.
we know what's, what's happeningin us, Tesla Robo Taxi is now
(42:54):
in, uh, in Austin, right?
James Blain (42:56):
Just saw an article.
They're moving to New York.
Vojkan Tasic (42:59):
yeah.
we don't see it in the next 10years coming to our industry.
James Blain (43:03):
Okay?
Mm-hmm.
Vojkan Tasic (43:04):
I'm talking from more from the European
perspective, Right.
Where, where chauffer service isstill very differentiated.
It's on the stating of the top.
it's, it's.
Servicing only the VAP, right?
If you are talking about RitzCarlton, I take that example a
lot.
I don't see a robot checking mein, uh, in Ritz Carlton anytime
(43:25):
soon.
But what it will, uh, do to theindustry is, uh, uh, it will
make, companies like yours backtraining way more significant
for the industry because thosedrivers need to get better and
better and better, you know, inorder to stay in the shrinking
pond.
and what's gonna happen afterthis 10 years?
(43:47):
We're not sure, you know, peoplewill probably get more
comfortable with it.
and will, I don't know, theremight be as, classes, driving
around with the.
With VIPs alone, but, uh, not inthe next 10 years.
That's our prediction.
We thought a lot about it.
We discussed it with, uh, withpeople from Mercedes, with
(44:09):
people from rental cars.
we thought a lot about it, butthat's the common, common
conclusion that in the next 10years we're safe.
Where taxis and, uh, TNCs,they're not safe.
Uh, that's gonna come, uh, much,much sooner.
James Blain (44:25):
no, and, and I agree with you.
I think, you know, when you,when you think to what we talked
about earlier, right?
If you take a, a ridesharedriver or a taxi driver and you
put'em into a Suburban or anEscalade or you know, an S
class, that doesn't make them achauffeur.
I, I can't imagine the RitzCarlton saying, well, we're
going to super glue a bow tieunderneath the screen of our
check-in, and that makes it aluxury check-in.
(44:47):
And the other check-in kiosk isjust that, that doesn't make
sense either, right?
I think, you know, something tobe said was the evolution of the
doorman.
You know, when I think ofhigh-end hotels, you know, you
think of that doorman, you thinkof that image and what happens,
uh, at one point in the hotel'shistory, they decide, well, we
don't really need the doorman.
We don't really need him there.
(45:08):
You know, we'll get rid of him.
And all of the things that, thatdoorman did now have to fall
somewhere else.
And you lose that.
You know, you think of thehighest end hotels, I think of,
you know, everything that goeswith that.
And it's a, it's a big deal whenyou walk up to that hotel to see
that that front entrance isperfectly manicured, perfectly
(45:32):
taken care of.
Because as I talked aboutearlier with that chauffeur who
is in the suit, who is takingcare of the vehicle, is doing
the presentation, that doormanis taking care of that space.
They are making sure everythingwithin that space is perfect.
My business partner Bruce, talksabout when he worked at the
Ritz-Carlton, and one of thethings that he says is, you
(45:53):
know, we're walking down thishallway and we're with the GM of
the hotel on my first day.
Right.
And what does he do?
There's a piece of trash in thehallway.
He stops, he picks it up.
Right.
Sure.
You can get a Roomba to do that.
Sure.
You know, you can get to thatpoint.
But having people that aretaking care of a space feels
completely different.
(46:14):
Having that person able to helpyou with your luggage, to help
you with the door to welcome andgreet you.
Look, I, I just don't see aworld where even when we get to
humanoid robots, it's welcomeMr.
Blaine to the Ritz-CarltonHotel.
Like, it just doesn't, you'regonna lose that warmth.
Vojkan Tasic (46:33):
it, it'll have, it'll have the perfect accent.
Uh, it's, you know, that's, uh,there is no question about it,
but, but there is, uh, you know,human communication is not about
what just comes out our mouth.
We, we have 90% morecommunication that is, uh,
nonverbal and, uh, yeah, you,you can also say, yeah, they can
also pick up lots of other cues,but we don't know how to train
(46:53):
those robots because we, evendon't know what this nonverbal
communication is.
James Blain (46:58):
right.
Vojkan Tasic (46:59):
So it's, it's, it's complicated.
James Blain (47:01):
No, I, I think, I think you've really hit on what
I believe is key to the futureof our industry, and that is
understanding that if you arejust running a car service,
you're probably missing themark.
I think one of the things I loveabout your model is.
The care and the attention todetail and understanding where
you sit in the market.
I have always said, if yourbusiness is, I get people into
(47:25):
black car vehicles and I getthem from point A to point B,
you're gonna be in trouble.
I just, don't see a future forblack taxis, which is what a lot
of companies operate as.
so let me ask you, as we kindawrap up the episode, what is the
number one thing that you see ifyou are talking to other
companies, what is the numberone thing that you see in your
(47:49):
areas that you work in thatpeople miss or that people don't
understand?
And then what do you see as thesingle biggest opportunity in
our industry right now?
Vojkan Tasic (48:01):
single biggest opportunity is, uh, utilization
of ai.
Everybody needs to jump, jump onthis train, but not as, not to
have, uh, chat bots to answerthe, the phone, uh, but rather
to utilize AI to help them withthe, uh, backend operations to
help them with, uh, uh, youknow.
(48:21):
Checking the invoices, you know,all those, tasks that can be
done very easily nowadays withAI to improve, improve their
operational excellence in, inthe background.
Right?
And if they don't do it quitesoon, I think they, they will
stay, stay behind.
Um.
James Blain (48:35):
So how do they do that, right?
If you've, you know, obviouslyyou have a massive advantage
because of your background, butif we're talking to an operator
who has no tech background, notech experience, you know, and,
and not, I'm not asking you topromote any vendors or put any
names out there, you're welcometo if you'd like, but how, where
do they start or what would bekind of your jumping off point?
(48:58):
How do they dip their toe in thewater and start going down that
path?
Vojkan Tasic (49:03):
So, um, let's, let's be clear about one thing.
there is this open ai, there isentropic, there is, uh,
perplexity, there are lots ofdifferent lms, large language
models that are out there.
And you can think of them like,uh, wheat 12, uh, diesel engine.
That is hugely powerful, youknow, and, uh, but you need to
(49:27):
put something around it.
You know, engine by itselfdoesn't do anything, and you
need to put a scaffolding aroundit.
these companies have tried and,and they, they're trying really
hard now to, to give you toolsto build your own scaffolding.
the, you can use multiple,options, Right.
One is.
Probably the best one is to useAPI.
They have, you know, if you haveanother piece of software that
(49:48):
you can integrate with thesekind of engines, you can, uh, do
it via API.
But if you don't want to dothat, you can.
Um, for example, uh, thesimplest way, if you are on
Google, uh, workspace, you cancreate so-called gems.
You can, uh, um, explain in agem what you wanted to do.
You, for example, you can say,okay, I want you to behave like
(50:11):
a, like a CPA in us.
I want you to be able to, tocheck the invoices for
correctness, for date, for thisis the date I want to have in
there, you can just put in plainlanguage what you want this one
to do.
and use this gem actually to, tocheck the invoices.
It's gonna be super powerful.
Just upload the invoice.
You can say also in the gemexplanation, whenever I upload
(50:34):
your file, I just want you togive me Okay.
And or not.
Okay.
Right.
there are many ways how this canbe utilized.
You don't have to necessarily goto chat GPT and do everything
manually and explain all overagain, what you wanna do.
And also, I would invest, fivehours, not more, just five hours
over the next one month to,research about, prompting.
(50:56):
You know, how can you improveyour prompts?
This will make your life, mucheasier.
And I, I think this is thebiggest opportunity at the
moment, invention of internet,is nothing compared to ai, era
that we are, we are in.
James Blain (51:13):
I couldn't agree with you more.
I was, I was very lucky and thatgrowing up, my grandfather
worked for Jet PropulsionLaboratories, so when I was old
enough to understand what if,then meant I, I got taught how
to program and as you mentioned,you know, TensorFlow Neural, you
know, I grew up with neuralnetworks and these massive
complex, ais that couldliterally barely talk to you.
(51:35):
now we've gotten to thesemodels.
I think one of the things that Iwould tell people, and the best
way that I've learned to reallyhelp kind of someone that
doesn't know anybody to thinkabout AI is you're basically
dealing with a savant.
Um, it knows, it's taken all ofthe knowledge of mankind and
it's been shoved into this tinylittle brain, but it's still
(51:56):
almost like a child.
So, to your point, like you saidabout behaving like a CPA, what
I've found is really effectivefor people that are just getting
started out is tell it who andwhat you want it to be.
Hey.
I want you to be a CPA for atransportation company that is
an expert in helping themmaximize their revenue,
understand their cost per trip,right?
(52:16):
Whatever that might be.
Or, hey, I want you to act as asafety and compliance manager
for a bus company thatunderstands all of the
regulatory compliance in theUnited States, you know,
specifically working in thestate of Kansas.
And I want you to ask me everysingle question that you need to
(52:37):
ask me to be able to be the mosteffective at that job.
And it sucks, right?
It is.
The, the hardest part about thisis it's gonna now give you like
50 questions and you're gonnago, what have I done?
Right?
But
Vojkan Tasic (52:52):
you can, limit.
you can,
James Blain (52:54):
you can, you can, but at that point, right, and,
and you don't have to answer allthe questions either, right?
That's another trick.
But doing that, asking it tobecome someone.
Then asking it, the informationit needs to do that for you.
Then providing it, theinformation is and, and I'd love
to get your thoughts on this, atleast in my opinion, in my
(53:15):
experience, that's been one ofthe most effective ways to help
people get more out of it.
From day one, you can go intowhatever AI you like today,
right now, after this podcastand do that, and it will make it
instantly more effective.
Vojkan Tasic (53:29):
There is another tip.
you can use, AI to write aprompt for another ai.
So what, what, what I'm doing,what, what I'm doing, I'm, I'm
using, for example, entropic orperplexity to write, a prompt
for charge GPT, I'm saying,look, I need a prompt for charge
GPT, this version.
Uh, please do a research, how todo it properly.
(53:50):
Compare all the results I wannahave this.
this, this, and that in thiskind of format and so on.
And then it drives a perfectlynice, uh, nice prompt how to,
how to do it.
And then you get like perfectresults, obviously.
James Blain (54:02):
Now I will give one caveat asking chat GPT to do it
for itself or Gemini to do itfor itself.
I have had very poor results,
Vojkan Tasic (54:11):
yes.
You need to use another one.
James Blain (54:13):
yeah, so if you are, if you're just getting into
this, do not go to chat GBT andbe like, Hey, I need you to
write a prompt for yourself tohave yourself do this, to help
me with that.
but what neat is you arebasically, when you are going to
different types of ai, you areable to do that.
The one other caveat I wouldgive is you have to be aware of
(54:36):
what's going on under the hood.
So if you try to get slick andyou say, Hey, I'm gonna have
Apple Intelligence, write aprompt for chat, GPT, you do
have to be aware that Apple isusing chat GPT as the backend
for that.
So you'll run to that same
Vojkan Tasic (54:50):
my comparison there is, uh, you know, like in
biology, you know, don't marryinto the family, you'll not get
James Blain (54:56):
geez.
Yeah.
There you go.
Vojkan Tasic (54:59):
You need to mix drinks, you do mixed drinks.
James Blain (55:01):
Yeah.
You, you've gotta mix'em to getthe results.
That's absolutely wonderful.
Well, I gotta tell you, I've hada great time on this podcast
with you.
I think this is a super valuableeffort.
You guys have got an incrediblemodel.
It was really fun, at least forme.
you know, obviously living herein the States and having all the
family back home in Europe, it'salways great for me to kind of
reminisce and talk about howthings are over there.
(55:23):
And you guys have an incrediblemodel.
let me ask, if people wannalearn more about your company,
if people wanna learn more aboutwhat they do, if people wanna
learn more about you, where canthey find you guys work?
Can they learn more about limosfour?
Vojkan Tasic (55:35):
They can find the, all the information on limos
four.com, but they can alsopersonally reach out to me in,
uh, uh, in Dallas, in the, inthe CD fall show, or in Las
Vegas.
We are every, every year thereand we, we would be more than
happy to, to chat about, uh,limits four?
James Blain (55:51):
Awesome VO count.
I can't thank you enough forcoming on.
We're gonna have to have youback on again.
It's been absolutely wonderful.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to our podcast.
We love your feedback, soanything you can share with us,
whether that be comments,messages, emails, let us know
how we're doing.
Let us know what you guys wannahear.
And thank you guys so much againfor listening to the Ground
Transportation Podcast.
(56:11):
Bye-bye.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to
(56:31):
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.
Hi there everybody, and welcome back to another
episode of the GroundTransportation Podcast.
I am your host James Blaine forPAXs training.
Unfortunately, I am not joinedby my wonderful co-host Ken
Lucci today.
He is no doubt out making a hugedeal that will revolutionize and
change the industry with anacquisition or merger or sale.
hopefully I'll be able to bejoined by him on our next
episode.
(00:46):
I'm super excited though todayabout our guest.
We are going international.
We are, thankfully enough goingto a part of the world that I'm
familiar with.
We're gonna be talking withVocon and guys, I gotta tell
you, founder and CEO of limos.
Four comes from a techbackground similar to mine,
actually has a PhD inInformation Systems.
Absolutely incredible person.
(01:06):
I'm super excited to have you onthe show.
Welcome.
Vojkan Tasic (01:10):
Thank you James for very warm welcome and uh,
I'm very happy to be here.
James Blain (01:14):
Now I'm excited to have you.
So, like many of us, you did notgrow up drawing little chauffeur
hats and limos and everything onyour binders in school.
So tell us how do you come to bein the business?
What's kinda your background?
How do you get here?
Vojkan Tasic (01:29):
Yes.
So like, uh, in most cases, uh,life doesn't take you where,
where you plan to be.
I plan to be, an astronaut.
but I figured out, you know, youhave to be born in the, on the
US soil, which was not, not, uh,not the case.
So I had to find something else,you know, so I was, uh, and
besides that, I figured out youhave to have, uh, like two or
(01:49):
three PhDs in order, to be anastronaut.
So I, I just got one, um, whichis Still not enough.
So I'm a,
James Blain (01:55):
more than the rest of us in, in most cases.
So.
Vojkan Tasic (01:58):
a failed astronaut.
But, yeah, jokes aside, uh, I'man engineer, electrical
engineering, and I also did aPhD in information systems.
my, my journey to, uh, to thisvery interesting, uh, uh, niche
of, of, transportation or, orlet's say travel, goes back to
2009, uh, when I was inSwitzerland doing my, my master
(02:19):
thesis in, uh, A-B-B-A-B.
B is one of those hugecompanies, doing robots, robotic
lines, trains, hydropower,plants, uh, and so on.
I needed some, pretty muchpocket money and um, and the guy
asked me to build a bookingplatform for his, uh, upcoming
limo business.
(02:39):
And, uh, yeah, I said yes, I didit for a couple of weeks.
With, back then it was, it wasquite, uh, quite simple and.
A month later, he calls me backand says, look, this stuff that
you built, uh, I actuallycannot, live with it.
I'm getting so many requests nowin English and I don't speak any
English.
Can you, can you please help meout now with this?
(03:01):
Because you did it.
And, uh, yeah, we made some kindof a business arrangement there.
so I started to do reservations,uh, partly dispatching for, for
his new business with like fivecars.
and I was doing it in parallelwith, with the start of my PhD.
So very quickly I figured out Icannot do it myself because,
(03:23):
doing PhD at ETH in Zurich is,uh, very demanding.
Uh, it's one of the top, uh,universities in Europe.
Uh, so we had to do lots of EUprojects, lots of paper writing,
uh, it was, there was lot, ofteaching as well.
So I found the first guy.
Who will help me out because I'moriginally from Serbia and, uh,
(03:44):
I, I found somebody from Serbiawho could help me out.
Uh, so it, it's nowadays my COOSasha Christi and, uh, Yeah.
that's, that's how everythingstarted.
We, we were working for this guyin Zurich for a little bit more
than a year.
And, and we figured out that weare sending lots of work in
other cities where we don't havecars.
James Blain (04:03):
Okay.
Affiliate game.
Vojkan Tasic (04:04):
Exactly.
I feel people, I feel like,because we were quite new to the
business, we knew nothing aboutit, you know?
and we, he simply, offered thisguy to do this worldwide.
You know, we said, look, weoffer you to do this, whatever
we do in Zurich, to do itworldwide.
he just needed to pay for Googleads because Google ads were
(04:27):
really big
James Blain (04:27):
What, year is this?
What timeframe are we talking
Vojkan Tasic (04:29):
that's end of 2010.
End
James Blain (04:31):
Okay.
End of 2010.
Vojkan Tasic (04:33):
Yeah, exactly.
and he said, uh, luckily he saidno.
So we continued on our own.
We did a, nice research, whichmarkets are, very good for this
business.
So we came as a result.
Believe it or not, it wasCopenhagen for some reason
because it was a one of the hubsfor, uh, cruises back then.
It was, it was really big.
(04:53):
and that's, that's pretty muchhow we started.
James Blain (04:56):
So tell us a little bit, you know, you're, you're
talking about your earlyplatform, you're talking about
kinda your first foray.
most people don't get into thisbusiness by building a booking
platform.
I think it should be said thatis quite the undertaking, you
know, as someone that kind worksin somewhat of a tech sector,
right?
We're in the middle ofrebuilding the PAC training
platform.
We're in the riddle of doingthat.
(05:17):
And, and I, like you came fromkind of software background and
a tech background, and I cantell you, and I'm sure you'll
agree, it's not exactlysomething you do over a weekend.
Right.
now when you're building thatplatform, what are the things
that you're worried about?
where was kind of your headspace?
And then how does that morphinto where you're at today?
Did that help you?
(05:37):
Was that just kind of a steppingstone?
Vojkan Tasic (05:40):
In order to have a successful platform, you need to
have two components, Right.
Number one is domain knowledge,which we had no idea about to be
honest.
Uh, and the second one, you needto have technical knowledge.
You need to know how to do it.
usually there are lots ofengineers going around with
crazy ideas.
Nobody wants to buy, you know?
and we, we were lucky.
We had, uh, an experiment goingon live, uh, which we could test
(06:04):
it on.
and that was, very good becausethe feedback was immediate.
You know, we didn't, uh, work onsomething for months and months
without testing it.
The feedback was immediate and,uh, that was the crucial point
for later.
For later on.
James Blain (06:17):
Okay.
So I think it, what I'm hearingis a lot of this really kind of
comes down to just, just gettingit done and kind of moving
forward now.
Where you're at in the businesstoday, I think is worth noting.
You mentioned you're doing a lotof English speaking work.
Is that still the case?
Vojkan Tasic (06:35):
Uh, yes.
our main markets Right, now arethe Western Europe, uh, and, uh,
and, and US obviously we'represent in 200 cities worldwide,
with, special focus on, onquality.
So, I mean, obviouslyeverybody's saying that, right.
Uh, everybody has quality and,and so on, but I cannot say how
(06:57):
many companies have, full-timeteams that are going around the
world and really vetting, thepartners, you know, in some,
requirements we had.
cases where, we had to check thetires.
The date of the tire productionneeded to be checked.
That is not older than than fiveyears because that was, uh, one
of the requirements.
(07:18):
Um, and that's what we arereally proud of, and which also
I, I, I keep repeating, youknow, limo four is not in the,
chauffeur service or limousinebusiness.
We are more in quality assurancebusiness.
James Blain (07:31):
Right.
Well, and I think it's worthnoting a couple things, right?
You know this'cause we'vetalked, but my family background
is very much tied to Spain rightnow.
Anybody watching this on YouTubeis like what?
Um, but again, my, I have hugeties to Spain.
I still have lots of familythere.
That's where I was married,that's where I spent a lot of my
childhood.
And I think one of the thingsthat at least if you are used to
(07:54):
the American side of thebusiness, if you're used to
things, kind of how they operatehere is you don't quite have
that same understanding of whatthe chauffeur services industry
is in Europe.
So can you help us understand,as someone that's kind of
traveled back and forth, setkinda the stage for me of if I
am an American operator.
(08:15):
What things look like hereversus if I'm trying to get a
big picture kind ofunderstanding of the layout in
Europe.
How do they differ?
What's kind of the differencebetween them?
Vojkan Tasic (08:26):
Yeah.
so there are a couple of bigdifferences.
So I think the biggest one isfor, there are lots of new
companies in, uh, in us, newlimo companies.
And, uh, for them, I think themain message is, guys, we don't
have SUVs in Europe.
You know, don't ask for SUVs.
James Blain (08:42):
What?
There's no suburbans drivingthrough the streets of Europe.
Vojkan Tasic (08:47):
you know, our streets are built, couple of
hundreds of years ago when, uh,only horses needed to pass
through.
James Blain (08:53):
The width of a horse.
That's what you got.
Vojkan Tasic (08:55):
exactly.
So Suburbans escalates.
Forget about it.
Too tight.
so instead of that, we have, um,something else.
It's not as fancy as anEscalade, but it's, uh,
Mercedes, V class.
That's the standard, uh, whichcan be very luxury inside as
well.
And, uh, I think this is themain difference, that comes to
my mind.
Uh, right now there are a coupleof more differences, obviously.
(09:18):
so another one is how much inadvance.
We can give you driver's number,right?
In Europe, we can give it to youeven 24 hours
James Blain (09:27):
Yeah,
Vojkan Tasic (09:28):
even for a transfer, not for a full day
service.
so, even for a transfer, we cangive it to you
James Blain (09:32):
so, so talk about that for a second.
What allows you to do that
Vojkan Tasic (09:36):
Cancellation policy.
James Blain (09:37):
okay, there you go.
Vojkan Tasic (09:38):
Cancellation policy number one, number two,
size of fleets.
You know, in Europe, it's veryrare to find this fleet that is
bigger than 20.
James Blain (09:47):
Yeah.
Vojkan Tasic (09:48):
And if you, if you have 20, your, planning
capabilities, don't need to beas real time as if you have 120.
You know, if you have 120, youcannot plan for tomorrow because
you have no idea how manychanges you will have.
And you need to react instantly.
And that's what's happening in,in us, Right.
You guys have really huge fleetsand you have to plan almost in
(10:11):
real time.
And that's why cancellation,policy is, two hours in most,
uh, US cities.
But in Europe, you, you don'thave two hours.
That's, that's impossible to getit.
So that's why you get 24 hourscancellation, but you also get
driver's information, at least24 hours ahead.
James Blain (10:29):
Well, and I think another thing worth noting, you
know, when I, when I typically,when when I go back to see my
family, when I go home to Spain,I'm flying into Bajas.
Right?
Which, for those that don'tknow, is the, the main airport
in Madrid.
And one of the things that Ialways notice when I get off
that plane, right, I'm luckyenough, I've always got family
there to greet me.
I'm typically not taking a blackcar.
But when you look at thosechauffeurs standing there.
(10:53):
The cut of the suit, thephysical fitness of the
chauffeur, the way they holdthemselves, the way they carry
themselves.
There is something there thatyou don't see as often in US
cities because one of the thingsthat people don't realize is it
is considered to be a lot moreof a career path.
It's a lot more of a prestigiousrole, whereas a lot of times
(11:14):
here in the United States,people think, you know, oh, you
know, anybody can go be achauffeur.
And it's a stepping stone job.
It's not like a a career job.
But you see a lot of people thatsee being a chauffeur as a true
career path.
There's a very clear cutdistinction between what it is
to be a chauffeur and what it'sto be a taxi driver.
Now, that said, I've spent thePax 10 years at PAX training,
(11:37):
helping companies make that hugedistinction.
Trying to bring that same feel,that same kind of idea to the
us.
Now we're still focused onsafety and everything else, but
I think that's something that,at least in terms of a cultural
distinction exists in Europewhere it feels like here in the
United States, the line betweena chauffeur and taxied services
(12:00):
is a little blurrier.
It's a little more indistinct attimes.
Whereas I think Europe has kindof a harder distinction.
Can you talk to us a bit aboutthat and how that kinda works in
practice over there?
Vojkan Tasic (12:13):
Yeah.
so I, I think there is oneprimary reason why, why this is
the case.
historically speaking, taxes inEurope are of much better
quality, than in us.
And that's why black carservice, in us took lots of
these, customers that wouldtraditionally go buy taxes in
Europe.
So they u they're using blackcar service in in us, and, this
(12:34):
enabled black car service,Orford, service, uh, companies
to grow much bigger fleets andhave much, uh, much more
revenue.
and.
As a result, um, as you said,this line between taxes and, uh,
and, and limos are not asdistinct and as in Europe.
So in Europe, you had a veryclear line and, most of the
(12:57):
people that were just using taxibecause it's super safe, very
nice inside.
in most German cities, eClass isa standard for a taxi, so you,
you get like Almost the toppremium quality for, regular
taxi.
And, uh, not so many peoplewere, choosing, uh, a black car
service or chare service.
Right.
and there is also I think alittle bit of a men mentality.
(13:19):
topic,
James Blain (13:20):
Almost to a cultural difference.
Vojkan Tasic (13:22):
difference in us.
uh, I think people like to showoff a little bit more than in
Europe.
I know billionaires, literally
James Blain (13:29):
Are, are you stereotyping Americans as liking
to show off because you'vepegged us for who we are?
Vojkan Tasic (13:34):
based on my, my personal experience because I,
I've never seen a billionaire inus taking a tram, you know?
But I, have seen a billionairein Zurich taking a tram,
James Blain (13:44):
Yeah.
I, I can't see Jeff Bezos beinglike, guys, guys, we're, we're
not taking the private jet.
We're not taking the helicopter,we're going Amtrak today.
I just, I don't see thathappening, but I can tell you,
you know, at least in, in Spain,The public transportation
system.
even when I've, I've been up toother European countries down
there, you can take publictransit and it's a lot more
(14:06):
commonplace to do that, youknow, the, the subway and the
metro systems, I would say in, Ihave yet to see somewhere in
Europe where their subway ormetro system isn't better than
the best of what New York orChicago or any, you know,
California, you know, you've gotall these places in the US to
(14:27):
have them, but there reallyisn't much in the US that
compares to that level.
And I think you're absolutelyright.
It's something that where, youknow, that CEO or that business
person probably grew up writingthat their whole life and they
feel safe, they feelcomfortable.
You are not going to see TimCook's not gonna get on an
Amtrak and go to a businessmeeting.
Vojkan Tasic (14:47):
It.
It's also that cities are alittle bit more centralized, a
little bit more.
All European cities arewalkable, so in US you don't
have that many walk up cities,so you have to jump on a car or
something else.
And, And there are manyparameters that is actually
affecting what you were justsaying.
You know, the, uh, market inEurope is much smaller, and
that's why they can pay maybe alittle bit better.
(15:08):
And, a little bit moredifferentiated from other
shoppers or drivers.
and that's why, why you gotthis, uh, job stickiness of, of
these people that they can, uh,be more proud of it.
James Blain (15:19):
Well, and let me, let me kinda shift gears for
another moment because tell usabout, you know, I, I don't know
how familiar you're with theretail market here in the us,
you know, but it, at least in myexperience, the retail market in
Europe operates a lotdifferently than the retail
market here.
Obviously, you know, you've got,you've got certain cities that
(15:39):
in Europe that are gonna be moredriven towards, you know,
nightlife or those types ofthings where the, the black car
industry or, or even the tourismindustry is gonna adapt a
little.
But the retail business alsooperates a little different over
there as well.
Can you tell us a little bit onthat side?
Vojkan Tasic (15:54):
Yes.
Retail business in, in Europe ismuch smaller than in us.
we have proms Yes.
Weddings.
Yes.
but you know, this, this kind ofmovie, night outs, uh, fancy
dinners, uh, that's almostnonexisting in, in Europe, you
know, and most of the retail weare getting from, uh, this
business is, uh, coming from us,you know, people coming from us
(16:17):
and they really use lots ofthese services.
And some of the suppliers areeven, uh, you know, surprised
that somebody's taking a limofor this kind of, uh, o
occasions, retail business isalso on another, uh, hand, very
complicated.
You know, it takes, uh, way moretouch points than for, for
regular business rides.
and that's why everybody'strying to, to avoid it.
(16:40):
And also we have shifted ourstrategy, towards corporate
travel and, events,transportation rather than going
for, for retail because it'ssmall.
and in, in Europe we are alittle bit behind you guys,
because, um, when you say limo,people still think, uh, about
stretch, you know?
Uh, and I hope we will get ridof this one soon.
James Blain (17:01):
Well, and I think, I think another thing worth
noting here, you know, we'veseen things like congestion
pricing in New York.
We've seen like things likethat.
But, you know, Europe was reallyone of the early adopters.
You know, I remember when Ifirst found out about the cities
going in and saying, Hey, we'regoing to have this zone of the
city where it's electrical only.
you know, you can't have avehicle older than the year
(17:22):
2000, or you can't have, youknow, certain vehicles.
So unlike the United Stateswhere it's very common for me to
say, Hey, you know, I'm gonnahave a night out with my wife,
we're gonna have a car, take usdowntown, we're gonna do that.
a lot of that, like you said,becomes more complex.
And of course, you know, havingthe, the year model, things like
that are simple.
But I think.
To your point early aboutwalkable cities and public
(17:45):
transportation and these typesof things, the European cities
are not built with that samestate of mind that we have here
in the US of, Hey, we'll justget a car.
And I think one of the thingsI'd also like you to talk about
is I think a lot of thesedifferences changed the way that
Rideshare and TNCs affected theEuropean companies versus the
(18:09):
American companies.
So can you tell us a little bitabout what that kinda looked
like for you guys when thathappened?
Vojkan Tasic (18:15):
Yeah.
because this, differentiationbetween taxes and, uh, and
limos, it was already done.
You know, when and when Ubercame, they just attacked the
taxi business.
So they almost didn't touch, thechauffeur service segment.
but as, as we said, this linewas not very clear in us.
So they attacked both.
They, uh, pretty much decimatedtaxi business right now.
(18:38):
And, I don't know the numbers,but I don't think it, affected
the limo business as much astaxi, obviously.
James Blain (18:46):
No, and I, I think back to when I first got into
this business roughly 10 yearsago, I remember people, you
know, Uber and, and all of thisand Rideshare and Lyft, and
it's, it's gonna do this.
And one of the big things that Ifound myself repeating over and
over and over is, why are youcompeting with them?
Why are you allowing yourself tocompete with what should be on
(19:08):
the taxi level?
Right?
if you are trying to competewith a taxi, with an Uber,
right?
doesn't make sense because youshould be providing a higher
level of service.
You should be providing, youknow, a nicer vehicle.
You should be providing, a saferexperience.
You should be providing all ofthese things that puts you in a
completely and totally differentcategory than that type of
(19:32):
business.
And I think what we've seenhappen is we had that
distinction happen, and then Ithink now what we're seeing is
TNC and Rideshare is now tryingto go the other direction.
Right?
Whereas all of the companiessuccessfully came outta COVID.
I think we reached a point whereyou have all of these people
that came out head and shouldersabove we, we don't match at all.
(19:54):
Now the TNCs are trying to havetheir premium levels and their
black levels and things likethat, but they're still not
sending chauffeurs They'retaking those same taxi drivers
and putting them into chauffeurservices, vehicles like
Suburbans, Escalades, vehicleslike that.
And you have that distinction.
And I think early on in thebusiness, what we saw is we saw
(20:15):
this blurry line happen betweentaxi and chauffeur, and the
difference was the car.
And I think where the industrywas for a while on the chauffeur
services side is now kind ofwhere the TNCs and the rideshare
companies are stuck.
Whereas I don't know that inEurope we kind of saw those
cycles happen, or at least notin the parts of Europe where I
(20:37):
grew up.
Vojkan Tasic (20:39):
Yes, in, in most cities it was forbidden in the
beginning.
And, uh, uh, as I said it, itaffected predominantly taxes.
But what you just said is, isone of the biggest issue we have
in our industry.
Everybody's focusing on theirbrand new Escalade and showing
off how fancy it is, but they'renot focusing on, uh, on the
chauffeurs, right?
And what are the capabilities ofthe chauffeurs?
(21:00):
do they really know how tohandle different cultures?
When, when the guests from Japancomes, do they know how to greet
them?
Do they really know how to openthe door?
You know, do they have, uh, allthe checklist to do before
starting the ride?
and all this stuff, regulardriver or regular taxi driver,
he doesn't really care.
Uh, and, uh, and, and this, thisbrought, this actually blurred
(21:23):
this line between TNCs and uh,and our industry.
James Blain (21:28):
Oh, and look, I, we talk about it on here all the
time because what I tell people,and this is really important to
note, is GM doesn't care.
Right?
And, and, and I'll useSuburbans, right, because we're
talking to predominantly UScustomers here, but.
They'll sell a suburban to you.
They'll sell a suburban to anUber driver, they'll sell it to
a soccer mom, they'll sell it towhoever wants to buy one.
(21:50):
Right?
they're going to sell it toanyone they want.
And so what the differencebecomes is the service you're
providing, the way they interactwith your office staff, the
experience they have with yourteam, and then guess who the
face, the feel the whole companyis.
You could have the best officestaff, you could have the best
team in the world, but if I senda chauffeur that looks like you
rolled outta bed with a cowlickand a suit that's barely on him
(22:14):
or her right, guess what?
The whole experience is gonna beruined.
And I tell people all the time,you know, our focus at PACS
training is you've got to teachthat chauffeur that they are the
core and everything revolvesaround them.
And, and the reason I brought upthe cultural earlier is that's
something that we've taughtsince day one.
It's something that I broughtover from that European
(22:37):
upbringing is if I can get youto understand this is a career
path.
This is not just a job, this isnot just a stepping stone.
If I can get you to stand alittle straighter, if I can get
you to feel a little better, ifI can get you to do that,
suddenly you start wearing thesuit differently.
You start taking care of thevehicle differently.
You start addressing thepassenger differently.
(22:58):
And it's something that we'veworked on a lot at PAXs helping
these chauffeurs understand thatyou are building on a legacy of
service and that when you dothat and you're able to provide
everything there, now you'reserving a passenger in a way
that no other industry is gonnabe able to do that no other
service is gonna be able to do.
(23:20):
And I think at least ineverything that we've seen,
that's what sets companies apartfrom a premium ride car service,
right?
Versus, you know, your premiumTNCs, all of that.
They're just taking a ride sharedriver and they're putting'em in
an Escalade.
Chauffeur services is where Iknow that my needs are being
(23:41):
anticipated.
I can trust that I've got a saferide.
I have absolute peace of mindwhen I'm with that chauffeur.
Vojkan Tasic (23:49):
Here is an idea for you.
Everybody's saying they have achauffeur service, right,
worldwide.
But this is so different fromplace to place.
It's unbelievable.
But let me give you an example.
James Blain (24:02):
Yeah.
Vojkan Tasic (24:02):
you have lots of these, aircraft where you don't
have real business seats, Right.
They put some curtains and theysay, okay, these first couple of
seats
James Blain (24:11):
Can't tell the difference.
Yeah.
Vojkan Tasic (24:13):
actually, you can't, you know, because you
know what to expect, you
James Blain (24:17):
True.
True.
Vojkan Tasic (24:18):
you, know, for as a fact, nobody will be sitting
next to you.
That's number one.
That's, that's worldwidestandard, right?
You will have much better meal.
You will have, uh, much better,service from the, from the
flight attendants.
so at least it's standardized,you know, you know what's, to
expect.
In our case, we don't know that,and each company has, uh, grade
(24:42):
A.
Drivers and they have grade C.
And, and this should be somehow,easily testable and that you can
really choose.
I wanna have, I wanna have yourbest driver.
I wanna have your superstar,right?
I, I wanna pay premium for it,but I, I need to know that this
guy is the guy, right?
And right now there is no.
(25:02):
measurement.
There is no, I mean, you know,if, if there is a suburban or an
escalate, it's very obvious,right?
But with the driver, you have noclue.
James Blain (25:11):
Well, but I've said this before, right?
I'll take the Suburban with anexcellent chauffeur over the
Escalade with a ride sharedriver every single day of the
week.
Now, it's interesting becauseyou've hit on a couple things
that we actively discuss in ourteam meetings at pax, right?
And one of the things that we'vealways wanted, we've always
tried to do is to be able to setcompanies apart, right?
(25:36):
If you are using PAX training,if you are having your drivers
go through certifications, ifyou're doing what you're
supposed to do with it, thatallows you to get that chauffeur
right?
Change them from a driver to achauffeur, be certified, be
there.
But you've brought up thisreally great point, and that's
that we have these differentlevels, or you have these
(25:56):
different types of drivers.
What I would argue is my goal isto try and get them all to that
a level.
What we found, and this issomething that I see over and
over, is it's very difficult tocut through the marketing
puffery of all of my chauffeurare the safest, the best, the
most well-trained, right?
(26:17):
There are days that I seecompanies like we have the
safest, the best, the mostamazing drivers, and I'm just
going, oh, like, like, God, youknow, I'm not, it's not me to
tell you how to run yourbusiness, but you're lying to
people because I've seen youroperation or I've ridden with
your drivers, or I know thatwe've had conversations and
(26:39):
you're like, why would I everput a dime into my drivers?
Why would I update my fleet?
Why would I do all that?
I make more money if I haveolder vehicles and I spend less
money on the dr.
You know you.
It's very hard, and one of thethings that we see a lot in this
industry, especially, this issomething I see at shows, this
is something I see when I'm atevents.
This is something I see atdinners.
(27:01):
There is this big drive in thisindustry for owners to have the
Rolex watch, the Armani suit.
Right.
Just look the part.
Absolutely.
Look the part,
Vojkan Tasic (27:13):
Hmm.
James Blain (27:13):
and what I've found is a lot of times the guys that
are a little more understated,right?
You always, you always hear thequiet money, right?
Those tend to be the ones thatkeep the money in their business
or in their fleet or in theirchauffeur.
Those tend to be the ones thatare kind of putting it in there.
(27:34):
And I think one of the thingsthat we're seeing, to your point
that you've made, you know, onthat aircraft, you have those
different levels of service.
I don't know that we're gonnareach a point where we're gonna
be able to do that on thechauffeur services industry.
But when we get to the pointwhere your economy class is ride
(27:55):
share, and your business classis chauffeur.
I can only tell the differenceby the vehicle type.
I think that's where you startgetting a breakdown and you
start getting into real trouble.
And I think the biggest issue,not so much being able to have
the classes within the chauffeurservices industry, is more the
(28:15):
fact that we have a lot ofcompanies that claim they are
world-class service, that claimthey are luxury and don't meet
any kind of standard, they don'thave adequate training for their
chauffeurs.
They don't have vehicles thatthey're taking care of.
They don't have something that,in my opinion, would kind of be
at that base.
(28:35):
I'd love you to talk about howdo you, you know, your company,
what you do, you guys have veryexacting standards when you are
looking at affiliates, whenyou're trying to figure out how
to use, how are you figuring outwhether or not they're gonna
meet your needs?
Vojkan Tasic (28:51):
so we have built over the last 10 years, um, five
step approach.
how we do the vetting.
You know, we start for, uh, withthe really basic research, using
some online databases paid andthen free ones to check for, uh,
credit scores, uh, businessregistration, and check
(29:11):
everything.
We can
James Blain (29:13):
so evaluating the business?
Vojkan Tasic (29:14):
evaluating the business?
whether they pass this firststep, then we ask for the
documentation, right?
once we ask for thedocumentation, we, we also use
some external services to checkthe documents, validity and so
on.
We even call the insurances tocheck if, these are valid.
we have seen falsified insurancepolicies as well.
James Blain (29:34):
No.
Vojkan Tasic (29:36):
And, uh, a after, after they, they pass all this,
uh, we schedule an interview,online interview.
in many occasions, we also askthem to have as many cars as
they can in the garage.
We know that's not possiblealways.
and we do a video call with themand we ask them to show us the
garage.
James Blain (29:55):
Okay.
Vojkan Tasic (29:55):
so that's the, that's the first step.
And, uh, we we, you know, wedon't wanna invest in traveling
there if, uh, if they don'tdon't fulfill the basics.
So once they, pass this one,then we go there, we go visit
them.
we have a full checklist, oftopics we need to check.
some of the, the topics, have tocheck are, a little bit stupid,
(30:16):
but we still have to check thembecause of some clients of ours
are requesting it.
for example, we need to check ifthey have proper fire
extinguishers in the, in the, inthe building.
We need to check if there is nochild labor, you know,
James Blain (30:30):
we don't let kids drive here.
Vojkan Tasic (30:32):
Yes, it's, uh, pretty much impossible, but we
need to put a official checkmark, and they need to sign it.
and, you know, we are verytransparent with all these, um,
auditing topics.
We are gonna check, uh, when wevisit them, we send it, uh,
upfront so they can, uh, theycan prepare.
If they don't have some, uh, youknow, if they have some, uh,
children, drivers, uh, they canremove them.
James Blain (30:55):
So let's let, let's stop for a second.
'cause, you know, I, I can just,I can already hear listeners
going, you're flying, you'reflying in to check on
affiliates.
Are you, how do you make thisaffordable?
Right?
How many of the affiliates areable to drop what they're doing
and let you do a site visit?
I guess walk us through and,and, you know, shout out to Ken,
(31:15):
'cause Ken is gonna come at thislater and, and be able to tell
us the money of, of what we'd beable to do here.
But help me understand Whatmakes it financially viable to
be able to do that for you, towhere you're able to go out
there and what is kind of thevolume that you guys are looking
at?
How does your business modelwork to where you are able to
actually invest that much timeand money into vetting an
(31:38):
affiliate?
Okay.
Vojkan Tasic (31:39):
So this is uh, we are that, that's a very good
question.
Uh, if you do a basic, businessmodel, it doesn't, doesn't work,
right?
But we are, financing this inmost cases from the marketing
budgets, you know, and that's,the catch.
We have a little bit different,mindset, because.
All the auditing reports in ourcase is a huge differentiation
(32:03):
point for our clients.
Uh, and if we go in front of ourclients and, and we said, look,
here is like hundreds of uh,in-person auditing reports, then
it's very easy for them todecide who they're gonna go
with.
And that's why we are winning,uh, really big accounts in the
last two years.
James Blain (32:23):
So this is a major differentiator in your
Vojkan Tasic (32:25):
this is one of the, one of the main
differentiator.
Yes.
Besides other tech topics we, wehave going on, uh, yes.
This is the, one of the, one ofthe biggest one.
But just to continue verybriefly with, with my, with my
story.
so all affiliates, uh, orpartners as we call them, after
they pass this in, in-person,uh, uh, auditing, they are
(32:46):
onboarded and then they Are inthe testing phase.
So, uh, they will have a testingnext to their, company name in
the dispatch screen.
So they are enabled for newrides, and they will be in the
testing phase.
Um, and they can receive coupleof rides, right?
And then they will be, uh,reviewed afterwards.
Our affiliate manager, willreceive an email.
(33:08):
Okay, testing phase is over.
Please review the results.
system is, uh, picking up allthe topics, right?
Whether the drivers had the,right statuses, GPS coordinates,
you know, if, if the jobs wereclosed, uh, properly, you know,
if there are no incidents, thisis all done pretty much
automatically.
And, uh, they can be put afterthis in the, in the regular,
(33:30):
working mode.
the system is monitoring them.
we are following more than 30different parameters.
for each of the partner
James Blain (33:37):
Are you able to share some of those with us?
Some of the key ones that you'relooking
Vojkan Tasic (33:40):
Yes, yes.
So we have, I think, six, sevendifferent categories.
starting from price contracting,insurance, flexibility,
punctuality, incidents, driversappearance, many, many different
topics.
And, and we have subtopics in,in which one of them, we, we
grade them, between one and 10,and we have a waiting factor for
(34:04):
each of the parameter.
And then we get a number frombetween zero and 100.
In the end.
It's a, it's a score whichactually, tells us a lot about,
about this partner.
So.
we have ghost rides as well.
from time to time we do that.
We check our partners, and wehave, pretty much yearly reviews
with each one of them to seewhat went good, what, uh, didn't
(34:26):
go so, so good.
And, uh, Yeah.
this is, this is the mainprocess we have and, uh, one of
the biggest differentiators oflimos four.
James Blain (34:34):
So let me ask you then, kind of knowing that you
have that model.
One of the things that I seethat just it makes my skin crawl
is when I see an operator andthey'll go on a Facebook group
and they'll go, Hey, I got atrip, is tomorrow 6:00 AM Who
can do it in m?
Right.
And there's no vetting.
It's, you can tell it's, I toldthis guy, I'm gonna cover the
(34:58):
trip.
I gotta find someone to coverthe trip.
And it's literal, first come,first serve.
Right.
And I, it's always, I kid younot almost the very first come,
they're like, Bob can do it.
Great.
Thanks.
And it's done.
That's it.
They're sending it to whoeverthat was on a whim.
No vetting.
how does that work for you guys?
You know, if you have asituation where, and, and I feel
(35:20):
I already know the answer tothis, but if you have a
situation where you say, Hey,we've got a business executive,
he's flying into Bozeman,Montana tomorrow, you guys, you
know, let's say you don't haveanyone, I'm sure you do, but you
don't have anyone in Bozeman,Montana.
what does that process looklike?
Or how would you guys handlethat?
And, and clearly not Facebook,but what, what would that look
like for you?
Or how would your team addressthat?
Vojkan Tasic (35:41):
Yeah, so that's a, that's a very good question.
If it's something urgent, wewill reject it.
You know, we will just say,sorry.
We cannot fulfill our qualitystandards.
And, and that's it.
We had many occasions where.
our clients, very good clients.
Of course, we won't do it foreverybody, but very good clients
say, Okay.
our executives are traveling invery, very weird place somewhere
in Africa, you know, and we,pretty much send the people
(36:04):
before that to vet the partneron the spot and, uh, and prepare
everything for, for the arrival.
And, uh, that's the only way howwe can do it.
otherwise, you know, I've, I'veseen so many horror stories.
I've seen a Coca-Cola executivebeing picked up by the random
guy in, in, Bulgaria.
Uh, you know, so, uh, it's onein one of those WhatsApp groups,
(36:25):
you know, somebody say, oh, whodo we have for this?
And, um, that's really ho andthat's why also, uh, we are one
of the top choices as anaffiliate, for, uh, biggest, US
limo companies in all thosemarkets that are not London,
Barcelona
James Blain (36:42):
They're accessing your network, essentially.
Vojkan Tasic (36:44):
Exactly, They're using our network because they
know we vetted them and theyhave one ride a month where we
have maybe one ride in two daysin these, uh, small places.
And we have full leverage thesesuppliers.
You know, we are give them morethan 30, 40% of their total
revenue.
So it's kind of an extended armof, our own fleet.
(37:05):
and this is one of the biggestadvantages that we have on the
market.
James Blain (37:08):
So let me ask you then, and, and again, I'm sure I
know the answer to this one,what is your ideal client and
where do you guys, you know, uh.
Are you purely focused on thosehigh level executives, and where
do you kind of see the growth orkind of the expansion of your
business?
Vojkan Tasic (37:26):
So we are focusing at the moment on, on two
channels, or let's say twoniche.
So, uh, one is, um, uh,executive transportation and
corporate transportation for,Medium sized companies, you
know, up to, 200 travelers andthey are not, big enough for
(37:46):
the, the biggest ones, thebiggest providers.
but they are big enough for uswhere they need a little bit
tailored, solution and they wantto pay premium for, for some,
uh, extra service there.
So that's, that's one.
And the other one is, uh,transportation for events.
That's where we have gotten, uh,really good lately, not lately
(38:06):
actually.
It's, it sounds like, uh, likeit's lately, but we've been
doing for quite some time.
Uh, and transportation forevents is one of those
non-scalable part of ourbusiness?
James Blain (38:16):
How so?
Vojkan Tasic (38:17):
You, have to, for some of the events, you have to
plan one year ahead.
You have to assign a eventmanager, just for transportation
on our end.
And he will have, uh, or she, inour case, will have, countless
emails and, uh, we never had abig event below 50 versions of
Excel file for manifest.
(38:37):
so there is lots of planninginvolved and, over the, over the
time we have built our owntechnology to improve the
scalability of it.
It's still not fully scalable,but, uh, we are ahead of
everybody else, with technologyfor, uh, event transportation
because we started, with AI waybefore JGBT, we, we started with
(38:58):
TensorFlow and uh, just thebasic neural networks.
We, so we, we have big advantagenow on the, on the market.
That's why we can do it muchfaster and so?
on.
And that's why we are doing Lotsof events now, in US as well for
one of the biggest Banks.
James Blain (39:13):
So it sounds like you're still running your own
dispatch software.
Do you guys have any plans tomake that available or is that
kind of part of your secretsauce, so to speak?
Vojkan Tasic (39:21):
So it's, we have built so many, uh, competitive
advantages in, uh, in, in thissoftware.
So we, we've been asked, all thetime to, to have it for somebody
else, but, uh, it's not builtfor that.
Uh, on, on the other side.
I mean, you know, James, youknow, software very well, and,
uh, if you have, if you neverplan for multi-tenancy, you
(39:43):
cannot have multi-tenancy.
James Blain (39:44):
No, no.
And, and for those listeningthat are going multi what?
So, so essentially when you,when you're building a software
specific for your use case andfor what you do, you essentially
build it and tailor it like asuit around yourself.
And the problem becomes makingthat suit fit like a glove on
someone else becomes reallytough.
And I think the other thingthat's really important to note
(40:06):
there is you also at that point,if you start trying to make it
fit better around other people,it starts fitting looser around
yourself.
So I, I think, one, it gives youa competitive advantage that no
one else has that, but two, Ithink that's a very smart move.
And that you understand thatsomething that's built
specifically for you and thatyou're using it for yourself.
Vojkan Tasic (40:27):
And what's very interesting about it, is that
our operations department, youknow, reservations and dispatch
is sitting 10 meters away fromthe, from the IT guys.
And, uh, all they have to do isjust, just walk five seconds and
they can freely yell at them,you know?
James Blain (40:43):
And, and now everyone that works in the
office that has ever had acomputer problem hates you.
Um, no.
It's, there's, there's a lot tobe said about that.
And I think one of the things,and Ken and I talk about this a
lot, is a lot of what we do inthis business is being able to
create systems and processes andunderstand your business because
(41:05):
you have to get it to run like awell-oiled machine.
And in a lot of businesses thatI see, they can get away with
kind of off the hip, right?
Cowboy style operations onlytill they reach about 10
vehicles.
Once you get to the point whereyou have to be able to provide,
(41:26):
like we talked about earlier,that consistency, everybody's a
team, everybody's the best, andhave it all run the way it's
supposed to.
You just have to have.
Processes in place.
And I think one of the bigadvantages that it sounds like
you've had coming frominformation systems, coming from
tech, is that you have thisappreciation for kinda that
engineering mindset.
(41:48):
There's a process, there's a wayto do it.
We're gonna create a piece ofsoftware, we're gonna create
something to do it.
So I, I know that of course,being a tech guy, it's gotta
come here.
What does the future hold andwhat do you see?
I know at least here in the USthere's a lot of talk about
autonomous, depending on who youtalk to.
It's the best thing ever, theworst thing ever.
(42:08):
It's next week, it's next 20years.
What does that look like?
And more specifically, sinceyou've got a global view, what
do you see in terms of not justautonomous, but how is AI going
to change what we do?
How is tech gonna change what wedo?
What, what are you guys lookingat to stay ahead?
Being a tech focused company?
Vojkan Tasic (42:31):
Uh.
When it comes to the future,there are two components, uh,
future in our industry.
one is ai, uh, that is actuallygoing with, uh, very, very big
speed.
Uh, another one is autonomousvehicles.
So let's start with theautonomous vehicles.
which big part of it is, uh,obviously ai.
we know what's, what's happeningin us, Tesla Robo Taxi is now
(42:54):
in, uh, in Austin, right?
James Blain (42:56):
Just saw an article.
They're moving to New York.
Vojkan Tasic (42:59):
yeah.
we don't see it in the next 10years coming to our industry.
James Blain (43:03):
Okay?
Mm-hmm.
Vojkan Tasic (43:04):
I'm talking from more from the European
perspective, Right.
Where, where chauffer service isstill very differentiated.
It's on the stating of the top.
it's, it's.
Servicing only the VAP, right?
If you are talking about RitzCarlton, I take that example a
lot.
I don't see a robot checking mein, uh, in Ritz Carlton anytime
(43:25):
soon.
But what it will, uh, do to theindustry is, uh, uh, it will
make, companies like yours backtraining way more significant
for the industry because thosedrivers need to get better and
better and better, you know, inorder to stay in the shrinking
pond.
and what's gonna happen afterthis 10 years?
(43:47):
We're not sure, you know, peoplewill probably get more
comfortable with it.
and will, I don't know, theremight be as, classes, driving
around with the.
With VIPs alone, but, uh, not inthe next 10 years.
That's our prediction.
We thought a lot about it.
We discussed it with, uh, withpeople from Mercedes, with
(44:09):
people from rental cars.
we thought a lot about it, butthat's the common, common
conclusion that in the next 10years we're safe.
Where taxis and, uh, TNCs,they're not safe.
Uh, that's gonna come, uh, much,much sooner.
James Blain (44:25):
no, and, and I agree with you.
I think, you know, when you,when you think to what we talked
about earlier, right?
If you take a, a ridesharedriver or a taxi driver and you
put'em into a Suburban or anEscalade or you know, an S
class, that doesn't make them achauffeur.
I, I can't imagine the RitzCarlton saying, well, we're
going to super glue a bow tieunderneath the screen of our
check-in, and that makes it aluxury check-in.
(44:47):
And the other check-in kiosk isjust that, that doesn't make
sense either, right?
I think, you know, something tobe said was the evolution of the
doorman.
You know, when I think ofhigh-end hotels, you know, you
think of that doorman, you thinkof that image and what happens,
uh, at one point in the hotel'shistory, they decide, well, we
don't really need the doorman.
We don't really need him there.
(45:08):
You know, we'll get rid of him.
And all of the things that, thatdoorman did now have to fall
somewhere else.
And you lose that.
You know, you think of thehighest end hotels, I think of,
you know, everything that goeswith that.
And it's a, it's a big deal whenyou walk up to that hotel to see
that that front entrance isperfectly manicured, perfectly
(45:32):
taken care of.
Because as I talked aboutearlier with that chauffeur who
is in the suit, who is takingcare of the vehicle, is doing
the presentation, that doormanis taking care of that space.
They are making sure everythingwithin that space is perfect.
My business partner Bruce, talksabout when he worked at the
Ritz-Carlton, and one of thethings that he says is, you
(45:53):
know, we're walking down thishallway and we're with the GM of
the hotel on my first day.
Right.
And what does he do?
There's a piece of trash in thehallway.
He stops, he picks it up.
Right.
Sure.
You can get a Roomba to do that.
Sure.
You know, you can get to thatpoint.
But having people that aretaking care of a space feels
completely different.
(46:14):
Having that person able to helpyou with your luggage, to help
you with the door to welcome andgreet you.
Look, I, I just don't see aworld where even when we get to
humanoid robots, it's welcomeMr.
Blaine to the Ritz-CarltonHotel.
Like, it just doesn't, you'regonna lose that warmth.
Vojkan Tasic (46:33):
it, it'll have, it'll have the perfect accent.
Uh, it's, you know, that's, uh,there is no question about it,
but, but there is, uh, you know,human communication is not about
what just comes out our mouth.
We, we have 90% morecommunication that is, uh,
nonverbal and, uh, yeah, you,you can also say, yeah, they can
also pick up lots of other cues,but we don't know how to train
(46:53):
those robots because we, evendon't know what this nonverbal
communication is.
James Blain (46:58):
right.
Vojkan Tasic (46:59):
So it's, it's, it's complicated.
James Blain (47:01):
No, I, I think, I think you've really hit on what
I believe is key to the futureof our industry, and that is
understanding that if you arejust running a car service,
you're probably missing themark.
I think one of the things I loveabout your model is.
The care and the attention todetail and understanding where
you sit in the market.
I have always said, if yourbusiness is, I get people into
(47:25):
black car vehicles and I getthem from point A to point B,
you're gonna be in trouble.
I just, don't see a future forblack taxis, which is what a lot
of companies operate as.
so let me ask you, as we kindawrap up the episode, what is the
number one thing that you see ifyou are talking to other
companies, what is the numberone thing that you see in your
(47:49):
areas that you work in thatpeople miss or that people don't
understand?
And then what do you see as thesingle biggest opportunity in
our industry right now?
Vojkan Tasic (48:01):
single biggest opportunity is, uh, utilization
of ai.
Everybody needs to jump, jump onthis train, but not as, not to
have, uh, chat bots to answerthe, the phone, uh, but rather
to utilize AI to help them withthe, uh, backend operations to
help them with, uh, uh, youknow.
(48:21):
Checking the invoices, you know,all those, tasks that can be
done very easily nowadays withAI to improve, improve their
operational excellence in, inthe background.
Right?
And if they don't do it quitesoon, I think they, they will
stay, stay behind.
Um.
James Blain (48:35):
So how do they do that, right?
If you've, you know, obviouslyyou have a massive advantage
because of your background, butif we're talking to an operator
who has no tech background, notech experience, you know, and,
and not, I'm not asking you topromote any vendors or put any
names out there, you're welcometo if you'd like, but how, where
do they start or what would bekind of your jumping off point?
(48:58):
How do they dip their toe in thewater and start going down that
path?
Vojkan Tasic (49:03):
So, um, let's, let's be clear about one thing.
there is this open ai, there isentropic, there is, uh,
perplexity, there are lots ofdifferent lms, large language
models that are out there.
And you can think of them like,uh, wheat 12, uh, diesel engine.
That is hugely powerful, youknow, and, uh, but you need to
(49:27):
put something around it.
You know, engine by itselfdoesn't do anything, and you
need to put a scaffolding aroundit.
these companies have tried and,and they, they're trying really
hard now to, to give you toolsto build your own scaffolding.
the, you can use multiple,options, Right.
One is.
Probably the best one is to useAPI.
They have, you know, if you haveanother piece of software that
(49:48):
you can integrate with thesekind of engines, you can, uh, do
it via API.
But if you don't want to dothat, you can.
Um, for example, uh, thesimplest way, if you are on
Google, uh, workspace, you cancreate so-called gems.
You can, uh, um, explain in agem what you wanted to do.
You, for example, you can say,okay, I want you to behave like
(50:11):
a, like a CPA in us.
I want you to be able to, tocheck the invoices for
correctness, for date, for thisis the date I want to have in
there, you can just put in plainlanguage what you want this one
to do.
and use this gem actually to, tocheck the invoices.
It's gonna be super powerful.
Just upload the invoice.
You can say also in the gemexplanation, whenever I upload
(50:34):
your file, I just want you togive me Okay.
And or not.
Okay.
Right.
there are many ways how this canbe utilized.
You don't have to necessarily goto chat GPT and do everything
manually and explain all overagain, what you wanna do.
And also, I would invest, fivehours, not more, just five hours
over the next one month to,research about, prompting.
(50:56):
You know, how can you improveyour prompts?
This will make your life, mucheasier.
And I, I think this is thebiggest opportunity at the
moment, invention of internet,is nothing compared to ai, era
that we are, we are in.
James Blain (51:13):
I couldn't agree with you more.
I was, I was very lucky and thatgrowing up, my grandfather
worked for Jet PropulsionLaboratories, so when I was old
enough to understand what if,then meant I, I got taught how
to program and as you mentioned,you know, TensorFlow Neural, you
know, I grew up with neuralnetworks and these massive
complex, ais that couldliterally barely talk to you.
(51:35):
now we've gotten to thesemodels.
I think one of the things that Iwould tell people, and the best
way that I've learned to reallyhelp kind of someone that
doesn't know anybody to thinkabout AI is you're basically
dealing with a savant.
Um, it knows, it's taken all ofthe knowledge of mankind and
it's been shoved into this tinylittle brain, but it's still
(51:56):
almost like a child.
So, to your point, like you saidabout behaving like a CPA, what
I've found is really effectivefor people that are just getting
started out is tell it who andwhat you want it to be.
Hey.
I want you to be a CPA for atransportation company that is
an expert in helping themmaximize their revenue,
understand their cost per trip,right?
(52:16):
Whatever that might be.
Or, hey, I want you to act as asafety and compliance manager
for a bus company thatunderstands all of the
regulatory compliance in theUnited States, you know,
specifically working in thestate of Kansas.
And I want you to ask me everysingle question that you need to
(52:37):
ask me to be able to be the mosteffective at that job.
And it sucks, right?
It is.
The, the hardest part about thisis it's gonna now give you like
50 questions and you're gonnago, what have I done?
Right?
But
Vojkan Tasic (52:52):
you can, limit.
you can,
James Blain (52:54):
you can, you can, but at that point, right, and,
and you don't have to answer allthe questions either, right?
That's another trick.
But doing that, asking it tobecome someone.
Then asking it, the informationit needs to do that for you.
Then providing it, theinformation is and, and I'd love
to get your thoughts on this, atleast in my opinion, in my
(53:15):
experience, that's been one ofthe most effective ways to help
people get more out of it.
From day one, you can go intowhatever AI you like today,
right now, after this podcastand do that, and it will make it
instantly more effective.
Vojkan Tasic (53:29):
There is another tip.
you can use, AI to write aprompt for another ai.
So what, what, what I'm doing,what, what I'm doing, I'm, I'm
using, for example, entropic orperplexity to write, a prompt
for charge GPT, I'm saying,look, I need a prompt for charge
GPT, this version.
Uh, please do a research, how todo it properly.
(53:50):
Compare all the results I wannahave this.
this, this, and that in thiskind of format and so on.
And then it drives a perfectlynice, uh, nice prompt how to,
how to do it.
And then you get like perfectresults, obviously.
James Blain (54:02):
Now I will give one caveat asking chat GPT to do it
for itself or Gemini to do itfor itself.
I have had very poor results,
Vojkan Tasic (54:11):
yes.
You need to use another one.
James Blain (54:13):
yeah, so if you are, if you're just getting into
this, do not go to chat GBT andbe like, Hey, I need you to
write a prompt for yourself tohave yourself do this, to help
me with that.
but what neat is you arebasically, when you are going to
different types of ai, you areable to do that.
The one other caveat I wouldgive is you have to be aware of
(54:36):
what's going on under the hood.
So if you try to get slick andyou say, Hey, I'm gonna have
Apple Intelligence, write aprompt for chat, GPT, you do
have to be aware that Apple isusing chat GPT as the backend
for that.
So you'll run to that same
Vojkan Tasic (54:50):
my comparison there is, uh, you know, like in
biology, you know, don't marryinto the family, you'll not get
James Blain (54:56):
geez.
Yeah.
There you go.
Vojkan Tasic (54:59):
You need to mix drinks, you do mixed drinks.
James Blain (55:01):
Yeah.
You, you've gotta mix'em to getthe results.
That's absolutely wonderful.
Well, I gotta tell you, I've hada great time on this podcast
with you.
I think this is a super valuableeffort.
You guys have got an incrediblemodel.
It was really fun, at least forme.
you know, obviously living herein the States and having all the
family back home in Europe, it'salways great for me to kind of
reminisce and talk about howthings are over there.
(55:23):
And you guys have an incrediblemodel.
let me ask, if people wannalearn more about your company,
if people wanna learn more aboutwhat they do, if people wanna
learn more about you, where canthey find you guys work?
Can they learn more about limosfour?
Vojkan Tasic (55:35):
They can find the, all the information on limos
four.com, but they can alsopersonally reach out to me in,
uh, uh, in Dallas, in the, inthe CD fall show, or in Las
Vegas.
We are every, every year thereand we, we would be more than
happy to, to chat about, uh,limits four?
James Blain (55:51):
Awesome VO count.
I can't thank you enough forcoming on.
We're gonna have to have youback on again.
It's been absolutely wonderful.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to our podcast.
We love your feedback, soanything you can share with us,
whether that be comments,messages, emails, let us know
how we're doing.
Let us know what you guys wannahear.
And thank you guys so much againfor listening to the Ground
Transportation Podcast.
(56:11):
Bye-bye.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to
(56:31):
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.
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