June 19, 2025 • 27 mins
Shadows lurk within us all, but they're not what you might think. In this episode, we demystify the concept of shadow work, moving beyond the misconception that it's something dark or evil. Instead, we reveal how these hidden aspects of ourselves—the parts we've disowned or rejected—hold the keys to our deepest healing and transformation.
Drawing from Carl Jung's teachings and our own personal experiences, we explore how the traits we judge most harshly in others often reflect disowned parts of ourselves. Those triggering moments? They're actually breadcrumbs leading you toward wholeness. We share practical exercises for identifying your shadow aspects, including paying attention to emotional reactions and examining childhood messages about what parts of yourself were "acceptable."
Whether you're new to personal development or well along your healing journey, this episode provides accessible entry points to a practice that can fundamentally change how you relate to yourself and others. Ready to meet your shadow and discover the freedom that comes from embracing all of who you are?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Heal Yourself Podcast, where we dive
deep into all things healing.
I'm Denise, a speech languagepathologist and a self-love
coach for adults and teens.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Kira, a traditional naturopath and
functional nutritionist, andwe're here to guide you through
the transformative process ofhealing your body, mind and soul
From the latest in functionalmedicine, of healing your body,
mind and soul.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
From the latest in functional medicine to nurturing
your relationship with yourself, healing trauma and even
transforming your money story.
We're here to empower you withthe knowledge and tools to
create lasting change.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
So, whether you're looking to heal physically,
emotionally or spiritually, joinus as we explore the many paths
to wholeness and wellness.
Hey guys, welcome back toanother episode of Heal Yourself
Podcast.
Today, Denise and I are talkingabout shadows and not shadows
(01:01):
like from the tree.
But shadow work.
I know Shadows within ourselveswhich, well, maybe it could be
the shadow that you see whenyou're walking.
It could be.
It could be it's with you allthe time it is.
And that's the thing.
I heard the term shadow work.
I've heard it for years, but Iwas like I don't know what that
(01:22):
is Like.
It sounded like somethingreally dark and evil.
I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
No, I'm going to agree with you because for the
longest time, I stayed away fromthat, and every time I see
people talking about shadow work, I'm like, no, no, no, I'm
going to stick to affirmationsand visualizations.
And this is true story Because,you know, louise Hay, when she
talks, is always talking aboutfrom now moving forward, right.
So I'm like, okay, okay, I'llfollow her teaching because
she's not talking about diggingdeep.
(01:48):
But it just kept showing up andI was telling you the other day
that I have an app wheresometimes you can click on a
button, ask the universe whatyou want to hear, or what you
need to hear, or something likethat, or something like that.
So what showed up was one ofDebbie Ford's.
It was like an online course.
(02:10):
I think that they did.
Debbie Ford passed away in 2012.
I didn't even know that I had tolike Google that stuff.
So I started listening to itand I was like, oh, that's so
interesting.
And then she has a book, so Istarted, you know, reading that.
But then I was at Target a fewweeks before that and then I saw
shadow work, whatever thing,and I was like, oh, that sounds
(02:31):
interesting.
So it kept falling in my lapand I was like I want to dig
deep and it's been great.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I'm like why did I resist?
It's not evil?
Well, and I, you know, I thinksometimes we resist things that
we don't know about, or we havepreconceived notions, or
sometimes we resist thingsbecause we know it's going to be
painful to dig into.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I think so I and then , but once you do, I mean, I'm
not saying it, it's not painful.
And I again, my experiences aredifferent than yours, kira, and
are different than the you knowperson listening.
However, it's sometimes like itdoesn't have to be painful, it
can just be very subtle, and Iwill use some of the exercises
that I heard from the coursesand one of the books that I've
(03:16):
been reading, because it's sopractical.
And you know me, I love to givepractical things, because I'm
just, you know, like, if I cando it, I put it in practicality.
You know, maybe one person can.
So, yeah, but it's not.
I mean, it can be dark.
Yes, if you have that, you knowthere are people who have the
darkness and that's okay so butyeah, and I love that, it's just
(03:39):
kind of like it's it's goingback to all of the teachings
from Carl Jung and I'm like Idon't understand Carl Jung, but
it's, the books that I'm readingare simplification of a lot of
his teachings.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah Well, and there's a quote from him that
I'll share, and just to explainwhat shadow work is.
So Carl Jung said the shadow iseverything we refuse to
acknowledge about ourselves.
I think we can all understandwhat that means, and shadow work
is really just bringing theunconscious, conscious, which
you and I talk about all thetime, but not just the
unconscious, the disowned partsor the pieces of you that you
(04:12):
have been ashamed of right Of,like um, I'm trying to think of
a really good example, sosomething around money, like I
really want to make a lot ofmoney, but you know, you grew up
in a family where it's likegreed is wealthy.
Okay Well, I'm going to hidethat down, I'm not going to talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Right.
Or, for example, it could besomething you, when you grew up,
you heard somebody let's say,you heard your mom, your dad,
whoever talk about, let's say,this lady being oh my goodness,
look at her, she's so bitchy orshe's such's so rude, she's so
mean.
So you start developing thatcharacter like, oh, you know,
maybe she's a businesswoman oroh, maybe because she has a
(04:50):
really high job that associateswith bitchy and with meanness
and with rude.
So you start staying away andhiding that aspect of you.
Because that's what it is.
Because, according to Carl Jungand everything that, a lot of
the things that I have beenreading, um, it is we.
We have all of those aspects.
(05:11):
You have the, the, you know the, the mean, you have the rude,
you have the happy, you have thejoyful, you have the kind, you
have, you have all of the arrays.
All of your aspects are withinyou.
It's just what life ismirroring and what you are kind
of also identifying with andfeeding right, because, kind of
(05:31):
like, there's a I don't know ifyou've ever seen that either a
quote or something where there'swe have two wolves or something
, and whoever you feed, like thegood or the bad, it shows up.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So yeah, so I actually have an example of this
.
It's funny.
I told you I was reading a book.
I got out of the library and itwas all about the mind, but
then there was one chapter onlike parts and shadow and I'm
like, oh there it is, denise,but she was sharing that.
Yeah, we have all of theseaspects, like people that you
see on the news of, like eviland like you said, bitchy or
(06:05):
this or that.
We have all of those partswithin all of us.
It's what are we choosing toact with and who are we choosing
to be?
And there was an example.
I had never heard of this.
Are you familiar with the artproject Rhythm Zero?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
No.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
This was insane.
So she gave this um, some woman, she was an artist, this was in
like the seventies.
So she said she was going tostand still for six hours, not
move, not smile, not, not doanything.
Stand so for six hours and inlike, in front of her the art
constellation was like 70, somedifferent objects you know like,
(06:43):
from like a teddy bear to tapeto a gun.
She had 70 things in front ofher and her art project was more
of like a psychology thing.
She wanted the audience tointeract and see what they would
do and it started out all cuteand nice.
I'll just say literally got tothe point point and I haven't
(07:05):
like she shared in the book, butshe even said she wasn't going
to go into the graphic details.
So I don't know the extent gotto the point where someone had a
gun to her head, literally justhad a gun to her head.
Somebody from the audiencethese are normal people, normal
people just going out andlooking at an art gallery and
got to the point where someonehad a gun to her head and she
had tears streaming down and oneof the bystanders was like
(07:27):
let's not do that.
And I don't know the otherextent, but it was in that art
project we'll call it thatpeople started realizing we have
aspects of everything.
It's how are those starting topresent?
Because it started out assomething very innocent and very
good and somehow it got to thatpoint.
Those are our shadows.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yes, yes.
And I also want to add, andsometimes, if you're listening
and you're like us, like, oh mygoodness, you're like what is
this?
And that was us a few monthsago.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's still me, I'm telling you.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
It's still me too.
And again, please, whatever I'msaying, it is what I am
interpreting and what I amperceiving from reading those
books and listening.
But if you're wondering, like,what is an aspect of me that I'm
hiding?
I can't be that or whateverno-transcript, and you go in
(08:34):
that defensive mode or whatever,this is your shadow.
For example, let's say, and itcan be a random stranger, you're
like, look at them.
You're like I don't like her orI don't like him, but why be a
random stranger?
You're like, look at them.
You're like I don't like her orI don't like him, but why?
Let's dig deep.
What?
What is it that is triggeringabout that person that I'm?
I'm immediately judging?
Is it this, is it that?
Can I be this right Cause sheeven gives an examples in her
(08:56):
book of like people are likewell, I can't be a murderer.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
He's like okay, Right , go back to rhythm zero.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Exactly.
But under this, thesecircumstances and this, this,
can you entertain the idea ofpause?
Or and she would ask them,question and, at the end of the
day, yes, yes, you know you can.
So if you want to start todiscover what your hidden
aspects, what your hiddenaspects are, I would definitely
(09:24):
start recommending, like youknow, start with the people that
you know.
Right, if someone that you loveor someone that you know tells
you something and it's still acharge, right?
So, for example, if someonetells you Denise, you are so
Akira, you are so greedy, orAkira, you're so wasteful, and
that word still upsets you tothis day, then that word, you
(09:48):
need to work on that and thosefeelings attached to it, until
that word does not have a chargeon you anymore, right?
So she even has an exercisewhere you are listing all of
these aspects of you that youdon't like and you're looking in
the mirror and saying I am anasshole, I am an asshole, until
you realize, whenever you sayI'm an asshole, you're like oh,
whatever.
Because when someone else callsyou you're such an asshole,
(10:10):
you're like okay, I know I cando that Because I'm sorry, I
have to add something.
I know, like everything that Ilearned.
So she's because I don't wantto forget it.
So what she says too, so whatshe says too, is that whenever
you know, you identify thataspect of you and then how can?
Okay, I can be that, right, soI can be, you know, mean person.
(10:33):
But then here let's go back inmy experience and see, being
mean, did that serve me at onepoint, one time?
Yes, it did no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh okay, I just realized I am an asshole, as you
said.
Therefore, I'm going to go outand be an asshole now because
I'm okay with it, like that'snot what we're saying.
Um, it is an aspect of you thatneeds some healing and needs
some recognition, and you saidit.
We always say triggers are yourlessons, but in this case, like
triggers are your breadcrumbs,they're leading you to something
.
If you're constantly gettingtriggered by something, then
(11:29):
start to pay attention to it,right?
Like you know, there's so muchspiritual bypassing that happens
.
Is that happening because youdon't want to deal with your
suppressed anger, yourdiscomfort?
The other thing I'm going tochime in around this, though, is
one of my mentors always saidyou cannot have light without
(11:50):
dark.
Right, and that's your shadow,but it's anything in this world.
Unfortunately, it's a yin and ayang.
You have to have two pieces, solook at the aspects of you that
you love and then start tothink about what the opposite is
, because that lives in you.
How are you suppressing it?
Are you ashamed of it?
Do you need to do some workaround it?
(12:11):
You know, if you're a peoplepleaser that was me what's
hiding underneath that?
What's the opposite of a peoplepleaser.
That was me.
What's hiding underneath that?
What's the opposite of a peoplepleaser?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Because that aspect lives in me somewhere, lives in
exactly, exactly and becausealways you know a lot of people
who talk about shadow.
You know I'm thinking.
Also, carl Jung has said thatthat's why it's been, you know,
written several times it's youcan't know love unless you know
hate.
And I think, also Esther andAbraham Hicks talk about it.
You can't know generosity ifyou don't know.
(12:41):
You know stinginess, you can'tknow whatever.
So everything has its oppositeand they all are part of you.
That's why, when you said thereare people who do parts
personality or whatever, partshealing or whatever that's
called um, because there are,you know the aspects that we
hide and we really, really,really really, and sometimes
those can be things that wecan't even that's what I'm
(13:03):
saying pay attention to outsideworld and all of the words that
trigger you, because sometimesthere are aspects of you that
you don't even know, that you'vehidden right, and then they are
wreaking havoc on you know,relationships or whatever, so um
, so it's, you know, kind ofimportant to um.
I don't know I was going withthis.
This is what happens?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It goes back to awareness.
True, it all goes back toawareness.
We say this in probably everyepisode now, but it's awareness.
You've got to pay attention,Like some people go through life
getting triggered by things andgetting upset and doing this
and doing that, but never payingattention to okay.
But why am I doing that?
What in me potentially needs tobe healed?
(13:43):
Because I think that we arehere to heal.
That's it.
Like we come in perfect andthen, by a certain age, we're
now imperfect.
You know, just by being here.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, want to.
Um, I was trying to find itwhile you were talking so I put
myself on mute, but I do want tofind that quote that I wrote
down yesterday and I read it toyou.
Um, but it's on audio.
Should I play the audio or godown and find the quote, because
I loved how he said like thisis our soul's journey to
(14:16):
unconditionally love all partsof ourselves.
I mean, you can I want to putit in his own words.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, play it and see if we can actually hear it.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Let's see.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
And that's me like recording a voice to Kira
yesterday you're attracting this, like whatever the experience
is, because the soul's evolutionis about building unconditional
loving relationships with allthe parts of yourself
represented as each emotion sorepresented as each emotion.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
That's not.
That's not from me.
That's a new author I'mlistening to and his name is
Matt Kahn K-A-H-N, and I justdiscovered him a few days ago
and I just love that quotebecause it also ties into the
emotion.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, which?
Yeah, go back to our emotionepisode.
If you have not listened tothat one, it's like five or
something.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So basically everything is tied in.
So I think that's why, also,you and I are being led to this
journey right now, because also,maybe we've also been resisting
the shadow work, we've beenresisting some of these things,
or maybe we're ready for it.
We've been ready for it yeahthat's the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
We've been on this journey for so long and
recognize that, like, healing isan ongoing thing.
And then it's like the more youlearn and the more you start to
heal and the more you start toreally embrace a life of like.
Every day lights me up to behere and to be able to have this
experience, the more you wantto keep going through that yeah,
(15:54):
no.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So, and it could be a little bit like I get it.
It could be we're starting thisout, so we're very beginners,
so also make sure that you'realso graceful with yourself.
So something like oh, I don'tknow what they're talking about.
It's okay, maybe in a year thiswill make sense, because to us
now this is making sense versusa year ago.
It didn't right.
(16:15):
So it's kind of like what yoursoul's.
You know evolution is goingthrough as well, so you got to
have respect for that journeytoo.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah Well, and I know everyone has a different
process, like there was one thatI was reading about again, just
one chapter in a book, but youhave done more reading.
Do you have a process thatyou're going through to either
find the shadows beyond thetriggers and to work through
them, because I'm sure peoplelistening are like okay, so I
found out that I'm a bitch, whatdo I do?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Right.
So this is what I have beendoing and I'm going to give you
a real example.
So every time I get triggeredby someone's actions and I
immediately judge them.
So let's, for example, I say Ijudge someone in my mind, you're
so messy or you're dragging,and I stop myself right there
(17:06):
and then, with that judgment andthis is not journaling, this is
just happening in my head I'mlike, okay, so I'm judging that
this person is messy.
Okay, so that means I, thatperson is reflecting that
because they're a mirror.
So that means I can be messy.
Can I be messy?
Of course I can be messy.
Look, I left this, I left thatmessy.
How has messy served me?
(17:26):
Messy has served me here, here,here.
And then I just accept it and Isay, yeah, sometimes I am messy
.
So now, whenever somebody ismessy, I at it, I'm like, okay,
they're messy.
You know what I mean.
I'm not getting upset overtheir messiness, because
(17:47):
messiness to me, messiness toyou, may not mean anything, but
I'm talking about to me becauseI know that's a very great home
right and the bigger.
The big example yesterday we'rehaving a conversation and you
know we were talking about.
You know we're having openconversation and you know I was
told that sometimes I say I,instead of saying I'm
(18:10):
controlling, I say I'm a leader,I'm determined, etc.
And the person was saying to mewell, but you aren't
controlling, and you know.
And I said you know what I am,and I did not get triggered by
that, because I have beenworking on.
I understand that I can becontrolling, but where has
control had led me?
Had led me to a lot of greatplaces and I am where I am
(18:31):
Because, sometimes, of that.
That doesn't mean and thatdoesn't justify right.
You forgive yourself on thataspect.
However, you also respect thatyou know what that aspect is
there and it helped me and itserved me.
So because once you startaccepting it, it stops being
triggering and it stops showingup.
The experiences stop showing upbecause what's happening if
(18:52):
you're constantly burying thisaspect of you that you don't
like?
The experiences are coming into trigger that change.
But whenever you don't learnfrom that lesson or take that
opportunity as a lesson, what'shappening is the experiences
keep getting repeated.
So that is the simple processthat I learned and I have been
(19:12):
doing.
It may not be the right process, that's in the books, but it's
how I'm understanding it and howI am practically applying it.
And when this experiencehappened yesterday and that word
that used to like, when someoneused to say it to me, I'm like,
excuse me, I'm a leader.
And then yesterday I was like,it did not faze me and that's
(19:34):
only.
I've been only doing one weekand again, please don't compare
experience to mine.
I've been doing the work since2018.
And I read like a freakingmaniac, like I read three books
at a time and sometimes Ijumbled my head.
I get it and sometimes Imisinterpret things.
Just knowing four languages,you know it kind of like.
Sometimes you misinterpretthings, but this is a simple
(19:57):
process that I was able to pickup in one of the lessons that I
have been, you know, listeningto.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, and I think that's where you have leeway,
right.
Like, some of my clients arelike driven nuts when I'm like
but what does your gut tell you,what does your intuition say?
And they're like I don't know.
I want you to tell me what todo.
Sometimes we can't like don'tgive your power away.
Find what works for you.
Just because you read what someexpert said in a book about
shadows or this or that, doesn'tmean that's the exact process
(20:29):
for you.
What Denise said might beexactly what you need.
It could be you just diggingeven deeper of like.
Okay, I've established thatthis part is my shadow.
Right, I'll use your control asan example.
I'm a control freak.
When did I learn that that partof me wasn't allowed?
Do I need to journal on it?
And I'm not a journaler, I'm aninner voice person.
So I am going to have thatconversation with myself in my
(20:52):
head.
Maybe you need to move.
Maybe there's a lot of nervoussystem dysregulation from it
where it's like very high charge, right, it was something linked
to a trauma.
Okay, Maybe you're not evengoing to have that conversation
right now.
Maybe it's like put in the backpocket.
For we're going to try thatnext week we're going to try
that.
Next month we're going to seewhen I can have that.
Do I need to do some movementaround it?
(21:13):
Do I need to do some art aroundit?
So you get to pick right.
Don't ever feel like okay, Ilearned about this one thing and
this is how I have to movethrough it.
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
No, and I love the way that you said another part
that she talks about too is alsolike, yes, journaling or
talking with yourself ormeditating over where did that
aspect start?
Right, like, and I mean shegave so many examples and,
literally, like you know, peoplebe like I can never be an idiot
.
Because she was working with acouple and I guess they were
(21:46):
talking like he was like I cannever be an idiot, never.
And he's constantly hiringidiots.
I guess he's a big, you know,in corporate or in a corporation
or something, and he's likeeverybody's around me is an
idiot and she's like well, let'sthink about it, let's, let's
talk about it.
Could you have that aspect?
Never, I could never be anidiot.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
One thing led to another onething that he was refusing.
(22:07):
There's no way he's gonna be anidiot.
That's it.
Like he cannot accept that fact.
No, no matter the example she'sgiving him.
And I guess they live on theeast coast where something is
really it's really cold, and Iguess they were driving because
she was visiting them and um,and then I guess he he left the
keys in the house in a freakingfreezing cold, and then what
(22:30):
kind of person would do thatonly an idiot does right.
So it kind of proved to himselfthat I can be, and this is when
they kind of like went through.
And then when you expect, whenyou accept, and that's why she
showed him, this is why you kept, you know, hiring those idiots,
bringing them into yourexperience until you accepted
that part of you.
And then this is when andhealed it exactly.
(22:51):
And when you healed, it doesn'thave a charge over you, okay,
fine, sure, and you stopbringing it into your experience
because it's already lessonlearned type of thing.
You know what I mean.
So, assignment understood.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Right, okay, I got it the other you know I have not
encountered this, and maybe youhave, but this is a question
that came to me, so maybe it'sgoing to come to others of,
let's say he didn't have theexperience of being an idiot,
right, which I agree, we haveall of these parts to us.
But let's say he didn't havethe experience of being an idiot
, right, which I agree, we haveall of these parts to us.
But let's say it still wasn'tdiscovered.
What if someone told him whenhe was six years old that he was
(23:25):
an idiot?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Right.
So this is how she went back toit, because he heard his dad
saying you are an idiot when hewas six years old.
And that's where it ties intoyour suggestion, where dig deep
where it started and guess what.
Sometimes now I'm going to bevery truthful sometimes, digging
deep, you can discover when ithappened, and sometimes it
doesn't even come to you.
But guess what, guess what?
(23:48):
Surrender it, because sometimesit just might show up in
meditation, or sometimes it justmight show up as a random,
because I was trying to discover, I'm trying to remember when
did I form the idea of what iswrong with me?
Because I can immediately go towhat is wrong with me.
And and I, and I kept like, oh,my goodness, like where did
this come from?
(24:09):
I know some childhood, but I'mnot being able to remember.
But I let it go, I surrendered,and then it showed up a few
weeks later or a month later,and I, I was either doing
meditation or journal, I don'tknow, but it kind of was clear
to me how it started and Iremembered.
And this is when it comes upnow, because guess what, it's
(24:29):
always going to come up.
It's going to come up and youwill say you know, and then this
is when you can work through it.
When it does.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, but it's definitely you will.
Again, if you don't remember,it is what it is, it might show
up and it might not show up, Idon't know.
Again, like, like.
Like you said, kira, we allhave different experiences, we
all have different opportunities, we all have different
upbringings, we all havedifferent limitations and
limiting beliefs, et cetera.
So make sure that you just kindof apply it to yours and you
(25:03):
know and be patient withyourself, because had we not
been patient with ourselves, wewouldn't be where we are right
now.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
No, and we just trust the process.
I'm the person that.
Yeah, a lot of times I don'tremember where some of these
came from, but I give myselfgrace and I just say that's okay
.
Thank you for still showing up.
I can still work through this,even if I can't remember when
exactly it started.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So I mean, I know we gave you something and you can,
if you want to start, you can,you know, start by reading the
book, by exploring it, by beingcurious about it, right, like I,
immediately did not like theidea a couple of years ago when
I heard about it, and it justyou know, started showing up one
thing after the other, afterthe other.
I was like, oh okay, you knowthat sounds okay.
(25:47):
And then I was ready for it, Iwas ready to receive it.
You know, two years ago Iwasn't so yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, okay, guys.
So, yeah, yeah, okay guys.
Well, we hope that you gotsomething out of this, as always
.
Thank you for listening.
Honestly, we are so excited tosee, I think, what is this?
Our 30th episode?
Like still going strong everyThursday, I think it is.
I think, yeah, still goingstrong, you guys.
So want to grow this.
(26:15):
Please, please, please, leaveus a review, Message us on
Instagram, Let us know ifthere's topics you want to hear
about guests that we couldperhaps bring on.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And then, of course, question and share with a friend
.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yes, yes, please share and share with somebody
posted on social something.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, does we need your help?
Because so we can continuespreading this word, and I feel
that because we are reallyputting it into practical terms
right, because sometimes youknow what we're saying, you know
other people are saying it, butI feel with us we're coming
from the like, practicality,let's get it done, you know,
very simple, not toophilosophical way.
So thank you seriously forlistening and we'd love, love,
(26:59):
love, love your feedback.
And we're still working on thesecret thing it's not so secret,
but on the program that we arerevamping, so we're still
working on it and we have someideas.
So we will share.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
We'll share in time and divine timing yes, when the
time is right.
Yeah, all right guys.
Well, we'll share it in timeand design timing yes, when the
time is right yeah, all rightguys.
Well, we'll see you on the nextepisode.
Welcome to the Heal Yourself Podcast, where we dive
deep into all things healing.
I'm Denise, a speech languagepathologist and a self-love
coach for adults and teens.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
And I'm Kira, a traditional naturopath and
functional nutritionist, andwe're here to guide you through
the transformative process ofhealing your body, mind and soul
From the latest in functionalmedicine, of healing your body,
mind and soul.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
From the latest in functional medicine to nurturing
your relationship with yourself, healing trauma and even
transforming your money story.
We're here to empower you withthe knowledge and tools to
create lasting change.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
So, whether you're looking to heal physically,
emotionally or spiritually, joinus as we explore the many paths
to wholeness and wellness.
Hey guys, welcome back toanother episode of Heal Yourself
Podcast.
Today, Denise and I are talkingabout shadows and not shadows
(01:01):
like from the tree.
But shadow work.
I know Shadows within ourselveswhich, well, maybe it could be
the shadow that you see whenyou're walking.
It could be.
It could be it's with you allthe time it is.
And that's the thing.
I heard the term shadow work.
I've heard it for years, but Iwas like I don't know what that
(01:22):
is Like.
It sounded like somethingreally dark and evil.
I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
No, I'm going to agree with you because for the
longest time, I stayed away fromthat, and every time I see
people talking about shadow work, I'm like, no, no, no, I'm
going to stick to affirmationsand visualizations.
And this is true story Because,you know, louise Hay, when she
talks, is always talking aboutfrom now moving forward, right.
So I'm like, okay, okay, I'llfollow her teaching because
she's not talking about diggingdeep.
(01:48):
But it just kept showing up andI was telling you the other day
that I have an app wheresometimes you can click on a
button, ask the universe whatyou want to hear, or what you
need to hear, or something likethat, or something like that.
So what showed up was one ofDebbie Ford's.
It was like an online course.
(02:10):
I think that they did.
Debbie Ford passed away in 2012.
I didn't even know that I had tolike Google that stuff.
So I started listening to itand I was like, oh, that's so
interesting.
And then she has a book, so Istarted, you know, reading that.
But then I was at Target a fewweeks before that and then I saw
shadow work, whatever thing,and I was like, oh, that sounds
(02:31):
interesting.
So it kept falling in my lapand I was like I want to dig
deep and it's been great.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I'm like why did I resist?
It's not evil?
Well, and I, you know, I thinksometimes we resist things that
we don't know about, or we havepreconceived notions, or
sometimes we resist thingsbecause we know it's going to be
painful to dig into.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I think so I and then , but once you do, I mean, I'm
not saying it, it's not painful.
And I again, my experiences aredifferent than yours, kira, and
are different than the you knowperson listening.
However, it's sometimes like itdoesn't have to be painful, it
can just be very subtle, and Iwill use some of the exercises
that I heard from the coursesand one of the books that I've
(03:16):
been reading, because it's sopractical.
And you know me, I love to givepractical things, because I'm
just, you know, like, if I cando it, I put it in practicality.
You know, maybe one person can.
So, yeah, but it's not.
I mean, it can be dark.
Yes, if you have that, you knowthere are people who have the
darkness and that's okay so butyeah, and I love that, it's just
(03:39):
kind of like it's it's goingback to all of the teachings
from Carl Jung and I'm like Idon't understand Carl Jung, but
it's, the books that I'm readingare simplification of a lot of
his teachings.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah Well, and there's a quote from him that
I'll share, and just to explainwhat shadow work is.
So Carl Jung said the shadow iseverything we refuse to
acknowledge about ourselves.
I think we can all understandwhat that means, and shadow work
is really just bringing theunconscious, conscious, which
you and I talk about all thetime, but not just the
unconscious, the disowned partsor the pieces of you that you
(04:12):
have been ashamed of right Of,like um, I'm trying to think of
a really good example, sosomething around money, like I
really want to make a lot ofmoney, but you know, you grew up
in a family where it's likegreed is wealthy.
Okay Well, I'm going to hidethat down, I'm not going to talk
about it.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Right.
Or, for example, it could besomething you, when you grew up,
you heard somebody let's say,you heard your mom, your dad,
whoever talk about, let's say,this lady being oh my goodness,
look at her, she's so bitchy orshe's such's so rude, she's so
mean.
So you start developing thatcharacter like, oh, you know,
maybe she's a businesswoman oroh, maybe because she has a
(04:50):
really high job that associateswith bitchy and with meanness
and with rude.
So you start staying away andhiding that aspect of you.
Because that's what it is.
Because, according to Carl Jungand everything that, a lot of
the things that I have beenreading, um, it is we.
We have all of those aspects.
(05:11):
You have the, the, you know the, the mean, you have the rude,
you have the happy, you have thejoyful, you have the kind, you
have, you have all of the arrays.
All of your aspects are withinyou.
It's just what life ismirroring and what you are kind
of also identifying with andfeeding right, because, kind of
(05:31):
like, there's a I don't know ifyou've ever seen that either a
quote or something where there'swe have two wolves or something
, and whoever you feed, like thegood or the bad, it shows up.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So yeah, so I actually have an example of this
.
It's funny.
I told you I was reading a book.
I got out of the library and itwas all about the mind, but
then there was one chapter onlike parts and shadow and I'm
like, oh there it is, denise,but she was sharing that.
Yeah, we have all of theseaspects, like people that you
see on the news of, like eviland like you said, bitchy or
(06:05):
this or that.
We have all of those partswithin all of us.
It's what are we choosing toact with and who are we choosing
to be?
And there was an example.
I had never heard of this.
Are you familiar with the artproject Rhythm Zero?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
No.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
This was insane.
So she gave this um, some woman, she was an artist, this was in
like the seventies.
So she said she was going tostand still for six hours, not
move, not smile, not, not doanything.
Stand so for six hours and inlike, in front of her the art
constellation was like 70, somedifferent objects you know like,
(06:43):
from like a teddy bear to tapeto a gun.
She had 70 things in front ofher and her art project was more
of like a psychology thing.
She wanted the audience tointeract and see what they would
do and it started out all cuteand nice.
I'll just say literally got tothe point point and I haven't
(07:05):
like she shared in the book, butshe even said she wasn't going
to go into the graphic details.
So I don't know the extent gotto the point where someone had a
gun to her head, literally justhad a gun to her head.
Somebody from the audiencethese are normal people, normal
people just going out andlooking at an art gallery and
got to the point where someonehad a gun to her head and she
had tears streaming down and oneof the bystanders was like
(07:27):
let's not do that.
And I don't know the otherextent, but it was in that art
project we'll call it thatpeople started realizing we have
aspects of everything.
It's how are those starting topresent?
Because it started out assomething very innocent and very
good and somehow it got to thatpoint.
Those are our shadows.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yes, yes.
And I also want to add, andsometimes, if you're listening
and you're like us, like, oh mygoodness, you're like what is
this?
And that was us a few monthsago.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's still me, I'm telling you.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
It's still me too.
And again, please, whatever I'msaying, it is what I am
interpreting and what I amperceiving from reading those
books and listening.
But if you're wondering, like,what is an aspect of me that I'm
hiding?
I can't be that or whateverno-transcript, and you go in
(08:34):
that defensive mode or whatever,this is your shadow.
For example, let's say, and itcan be a random stranger, you're
like, look at them.
You're like I don't like her orI don't like him, but why be a
random stranger?
You're like, look at them.
You're like I don't like her orI don't like him, but why?
Let's dig deep.
What?
What is it that is triggeringabout that person that I'm?
I'm immediately judging?
Is it this, is it that?
Can I be this right Cause sheeven gives an examples in her
(08:56):
book of like people are likewell, I can't be a murderer.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
He's like okay, Right , go back to rhythm zero.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Exactly.
But under this, thesecircumstances and this, this,
can you entertain the idea ofpause?
Or and she would ask them,question and, at the end of the
day, yes, yes, you know you can.
So if you want to start todiscover what your hidden
aspects, what your hiddenaspects are, I would definitely
(09:24):
start recommending, like youknow, start with the people that
you know.
Right, if someone that you loveor someone that you know tells
you something and it's still acharge, right?
So, for example, if someonetells you Denise, you are so
Akira, you are so greedy, orAkira, you're so wasteful, and
that word still upsets you tothis day, then that word, you
(09:48):
need to work on that and thosefeelings attached to it, until
that word does not have a chargeon you anymore, right?
So she even has an exercisewhere you are listing all of
these aspects of you that youdon't like and you're looking in
the mirror and saying I am anasshole, I am an asshole, until
you realize, whenever you sayI'm an asshole, you're like oh,
whatever.
Because when someone else callsyou you're such an asshole,
(10:10):
you're like okay, I know I cando that Because I'm sorry, I
have to add something.
I know, like everything that Ilearned.
So she's because I don't wantto forget it.
So what she says too, so whatshe says too, is that whenever
you know, you identify thataspect of you and then how can?
Okay, I can be that, right, soI can be, you know, mean person.
(10:33):
But then here let's go back inmy experience and see, being
mean, did that serve me at onepoint, one time?
Yes, it did no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Oh okay, I just realized I am an asshole, as you
said.
Therefore, I'm going to go outand be an asshole now because
I'm okay with it, like that'snot what we're saying.
Um, it is an aspect of you thatneeds some healing and needs
some recognition, and you saidit.
We always say triggers are yourlessons, but in this case, like
triggers are your breadcrumbs,they're leading you to something
.
If you're constantly gettingtriggered by something, then
(11:29):
start to pay attention to it,right?
Like you know, there's so muchspiritual bypassing that happens
.
Is that happening because youdon't want to deal with your
suppressed anger, yourdiscomfort?
The other thing I'm going tochime in around this, though, is
one of my mentors always saidyou cannot have light without
(11:50):
dark.
Right, and that's your shadow,but it's anything in this world.
Unfortunately, it's a yin and ayang.
You have to have two pieces, solook at the aspects of you that
you love and then start tothink about what the opposite is
, because that lives in you.
How are you suppressing it?
Are you ashamed of it?
Do you need to do some workaround it?
(12:11):
You know, if you're a peoplepleaser that was me what's
hiding underneath that?
What's the opposite of a peoplepleaser.
That was me.
What's hiding underneath that?
What's the opposite of a peoplepleaser?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Because that aspect lives in me somewhere, lives in
exactly, exactly and becausealways you know a lot of people
who talk about shadow.
You know I'm thinking.
Also, carl Jung has said thatthat's why it's been, you know,
written several times it's youcan't know love unless you know
hate.
And I think, also Esther andAbraham Hicks talk about it.
You can't know generosity ifyou don't know.
(12:41):
You know stinginess, you can'tknow whatever.
So everything has its oppositeand they all are part of you.
That's why, when you said thereare people who do parts
personality or whatever, partshealing or whatever that's
called um, because there are,you know the aspects that we
hide and we really, really,really really, and sometimes
those can be things that wecan't even that's what I'm
(13:03):
saying pay attention to outsideworld and all of the words that
trigger you, because sometimesthere are aspects of you that
you don't even know, that you'vehidden right, and then they are
wreaking havoc on you know,relationships or whatever, so um
, so it's, you know, kind ofimportant to um.
I don't know I was going withthis.
This is what happens?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It goes back to awareness.
True, it all goes back toawareness.
We say this in probably everyepisode now, but it's awareness.
You've got to pay attention,Like some people go through life
getting triggered by things andgetting upset and doing this
and doing that, but never payingattention to okay.
But why am I doing that?
What in me potentially needs tobe healed?
(13:43):
Because I think that we arehere to heal.
That's it.
Like we come in perfect andthen, by a certain age, we're
now imperfect.
You know, just by being here.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, want to.
Um, I was trying to find itwhile you were talking so I put
myself on mute, but I do want tofind that quote that I wrote
down yesterday and I read it toyou.
Um, but it's on audio.
Should I play the audio or godown and find the quote, because
I loved how he said like thisis our soul's journey to
(14:16):
unconditionally love all partsof ourselves.
I mean, you can I want to putit in his own words.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, play it and see if we can actually hear it.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Let's see.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
And that's me like recording a voice to Kira
yesterday you're attracting this, like whatever the experience
is, because the soul's evolutionis about building unconditional
loving relationships with allthe parts of yourself
represented as each emotion sorepresented as each emotion.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
That's not.
That's not from me.
That's a new author I'mlistening to and his name is
Matt Kahn K-A-H-N, and I justdiscovered him a few days ago
and I just love that quotebecause it also ties into the
emotion.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, which?
Yeah, go back to our emotionepisode.
If you have not listened tothat one, it's like five or
something.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So basically everything is tied in.
So I think that's why, also,you and I are being led to this
journey right now, because also,maybe we've also been resisting
the shadow work, we've beenresisting some of these things,
or maybe we're ready for it.
We've been ready for it yeahthat's the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
We've been on this journey for so long and
recognize that, like, healing isan ongoing thing.
And then it's like the more youlearn and the more you start to
heal and the more you start toreally embrace a life of like.
Every day lights me up to behere and to be able to have this
experience, the more you wantto keep going through that yeah,
(15:54):
no.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
So, and it could be a little bit like I get it.
It could be we're starting thisout, so we're very beginners,
so also make sure that you'realso graceful with yourself.
So something like oh, I don'tknow what they're talking about.
It's okay, maybe in a year thiswill make sense, because to us
now this is making sense versusa year ago.
It didn't right.
(16:15):
So it's kind of like what yoursoul's.
You know evolution is goingthrough as well, so you got to
have respect for that journeytoo.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah Well, and I know everyone has a different
process, like there was one thatI was reading about again, just
one chapter in a book, but youhave done more reading.
Do you have a process thatyou're going through to either
find the shadows beyond thetriggers and to work through
them, because I'm sure peoplelistening are like okay, so I
found out that I'm a bitch, whatdo I do?
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Right.
So this is what I have beendoing and I'm going to give you
a real example.
So every time I get triggeredby someone's actions and I
immediately judge them.
So let's, for example, I say Ijudge someone in my mind, you're
so messy or you're dragging,and I stop myself right there
(17:06):
and then, with that judgment andthis is not journaling, this is
just happening in my head I'mlike, okay, so I'm judging that
this person is messy.
Okay, so that means I, thatperson is reflecting that
because they're a mirror.
So that means I can be messy.
Can I be messy?
Of course I can be messy.
Look, I left this, I left thatmessy.
How has messy served me?
(17:26):
Messy has served me here, here,here.
And then I just accept it and Isay, yeah, sometimes I am messy
.
So now, whenever somebody ismessy, I at it, I'm like, okay,
they're messy.
You know what I mean.
I'm not getting upset overtheir messiness, because
(17:47):
messiness to me, messiness toyou, may not mean anything, but
I'm talking about to me becauseI know that's a very great home
right and the bigger.
The big example yesterday we'rehaving a conversation and you
know we were talking about.
You know we're having openconversation and you know I was
told that sometimes I say I,instead of saying I'm
(18:10):
controlling, I say I'm a leader,I'm determined, etc.
And the person was saying to mewell, but you aren't
controlling, and you know.
And I said you know what I am,and I did not get triggered by
that, because I have beenworking on.
I understand that I can becontrolling, but where has
control had led me?
Had led me to a lot of greatplaces and I am where I am
(18:31):
Because, sometimes, of that.
That doesn't mean and thatdoesn't justify right.
You forgive yourself on thataspect.
However, you also respect thatyou know what that aspect is
there and it helped me and itserved me.
So because once you startaccepting it, it stops being
triggering and it stops showingup.
The experiences stop showing upbecause what's happening if
(18:52):
you're constantly burying thisaspect of you that you don't
like?
The experiences are coming into trigger that change.
But whenever you don't learnfrom that lesson or take that
opportunity as a lesson, what'shappening is the experiences
keep getting repeated.
So that is the simple processthat I learned and I have been
(19:12):
doing.
It may not be the right process, that's in the books, but it's
how I'm understanding it and howI am practically applying it.
And when this experiencehappened yesterday and that word
that used to like, when someoneused to say it to me, I'm like,
excuse me, I'm a leader.
And then yesterday I was like,it did not faze me and that's
(19:34):
only.
I've been only doing one weekand again, please don't compare
experience to mine.
I've been doing the work since2018.
And I read like a freakingmaniac, like I read three books
at a time and sometimes Ijumbled my head.
I get it and sometimes Imisinterpret things.
Just knowing four languages,you know it kind of like.
Sometimes you misinterpretthings, but this is a simple
(19:57):
process that I was able to pickup in one of the lessons that I
have been, you know, listeningto.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, and I think that's where you have leeway,
right.
Like, some of my clients arelike driven nuts when I'm like
but what does your gut tell you,what does your intuition say?
And they're like I don't know.
I want you to tell me what todo.
Sometimes we can't like don'tgive your power away.
Find what works for you.
Just because you read what someexpert said in a book about
shadows or this or that, doesn'tmean that's the exact process
(20:29):
for you.
What Denise said might beexactly what you need.
It could be you just diggingeven deeper of like.
Okay, I've established thatthis part is my shadow.
Right, I'll use your control asan example.
I'm a control freak.
When did I learn that that partof me wasn't allowed?
Do I need to journal on it?
And I'm not a journaler, I'm aninner voice person.
So I am going to have thatconversation with myself in my
(20:52):
head.
Maybe you need to move.
Maybe there's a lot of nervoussystem dysregulation from it
where it's like very high charge, right, it was something linked
to a trauma.
Okay, Maybe you're not evengoing to have that conversation
right now.
Maybe it's like put in the backpocket.
For we're going to try thatnext week we're going to try
that.
Next month we're going to seewhen I can have that.
Do I need to do some movementaround it?
(21:13):
Do I need to do some art aroundit?
So you get to pick right.
Don't ever feel like okay, Ilearned about this one thing and
this is how I have to movethrough it.
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
No, and I love the way that you said another part
that she talks about too is alsolike, yes, journaling or
talking with yourself ormeditating over where did that
aspect start?
Right, like, and I mean shegave so many examples and,
literally, like you know, peoplebe like I can never be an idiot
.
Because she was working with acouple and I guess they were
(21:46):
talking like he was like I cannever be an idiot, never.
And he's constantly hiringidiots.
I guess he's a big, you know,in corporate or in a corporation
or something, and he's likeeverybody's around me is an
idiot and she's like well, let'sthink about it, let's, let's
talk about it.
Could you have that aspect?
Never, I could never be anidiot.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
One thing led to another onething that he was refusing.
(22:07):
There's no way he's gonna be anidiot.
That's it.
Like he cannot accept that fact.
No, no matter the example she'sgiving him.
And I guess they live on theeast coast where something is
really it's really cold, and Iguess they were driving because
she was visiting them and um,and then I guess he he left the
keys in the house in a freakingfreezing cold, and then what
(22:30):
kind of person would do thatonly an idiot does right.
So it kind of proved to himselfthat I can be, and this is when
they kind of like went through.
And then when you expect, whenyou accept, and that's why she
showed him, this is why you kept, you know, hiring those idiots,
bringing them into yourexperience until you accepted
that part of you.
And then this is when andhealed it exactly.
(22:51):
And when you healed, it doesn'thave a charge over you, okay,
fine, sure, and you stopbringing it into your experience
because it's already lessonlearned type of thing.
You know what I mean.
So, assignment understood.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Right, okay, I got it the other you know I have not
encountered this, and maybe youhave, but this is a question
that came to me, so maybe it'sgoing to come to others of,
let's say he didn't have theexperience of being an idiot,
right, which I agree, we haveall of these parts to us.
But let's say he didn't havethe experience of being an idiot
, right, which I agree, we haveall of these parts to us.
But let's say it still wasn'tdiscovered.
What if someone told him whenhe was six years old that he was
(23:25):
an idiot?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Right.
So this is how she went back toit, because he heard his dad
saying you are an idiot when hewas six years old.
And that's where it ties intoyour suggestion, where dig deep
where it started and guess what.
Sometimes now I'm going to bevery truthful sometimes, digging
deep, you can discover when ithappened, and sometimes it
doesn't even come to you.
But guess what, guess what?
(23:48):
Surrender it, because sometimesit just might show up in
meditation, or sometimes it justmight show up as a random,
because I was trying to discover, I'm trying to remember when
did I form the idea of what iswrong with me?
Because I can immediately go towhat is wrong with me.
And and I, and I kept like, oh,my goodness, like where did
this come from?
(24:09):
I know some childhood, but I'mnot being able to remember.
But I let it go, I surrendered,and then it showed up a few
weeks later or a month later,and I, I was either doing
meditation or journal, I don'tknow, but it kind of was clear
to me how it started and Iremembered.
And this is when it comes upnow, because guess what, it's
(24:29):
always going to come up.
It's going to come up and youwill say you know, and then this
is when you can work through it.
When it does.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, but it's definitely you will.
Again, if you don't remember,it is what it is, it might show
up and it might not show up, Idon't know.
Again, like, like.
Like you said, kira, we allhave different experiences, we
all have different opportunities, we all have different
upbringings, we all havedifferent limitations and
limiting beliefs, et cetera.
So make sure that you just kindof apply it to yours and you
(25:03):
know and be patient withyourself, because had we not
been patient with ourselves, wewouldn't be where we are right
now.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
No, and we just trust the process.
I'm the person that.
Yeah, a lot of times I don'tremember where some of these
came from, but I give myselfgrace and I just say that's okay
.
Thank you for still showing up.
I can still work through this,even if I can't remember when
exactly it started.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
So I mean, I know we gave you something and you can,
if you want to start, you can,you know, start by reading the
book, by exploring it, by beingcurious about it, right, like I,
immediately did not like theidea a couple of years ago when
I heard about it, and it justyou know, started showing up one
thing after the other, afterthe other.
I was like, oh okay, you knowthat sounds okay.
(25:47):
And then I was ready for it, Iwas ready to receive it.
You know, two years ago Iwasn't so yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yeah, okay, guys.
So, yeah, yeah, okay guys.
Well, we hope that you gotsomething out of this, as always
.
Thank you for listening.
Honestly, we are so excited tosee, I think, what is this?
Our 30th episode?
Like still going strong everyThursday, I think it is.
I think, yeah, still goingstrong, you guys.
So want to grow this.
(26:15):
Please, please, please, leaveus a review, Message us on
Instagram, Let us know ifthere's topics you want to hear
about guests that we couldperhaps bring on.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And then, of course, question and share with a friend
.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yes, yes, please share and share with somebody
posted on social something.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yeah, does we need your help?
Because so we can continuespreading this word, and I feel
that because we are reallyputting it into practical terms
right, because sometimes youknow what we're saying, you know
other people are saying it, butI feel with us we're coming
from the like, practicality,let's get it done, you know,
very simple, not toophilosophical way.
So thank you seriously forlistening and we'd love, love,
(26:59):
love, love your feedback.
And we're still working on thesecret thing it's not so secret,
but on the program that we arerevamping, so we're still
working on it and we have someideas.
So we will share.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
We'll share in time and divine timing yes, when the
time is right.
Yeah, all right guys.
Well, we'll share it in timeand design timing yes, when the
time is right yeah, all rightguys.
Well, we'll see you on the nextepisode.
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