June 25, 2025 • 20 mins
What's the key ingredient that will predict success in repairing or improving your relationship? In this episode, Randy and Beverly explain why both partners having a willingness to learn makes all the difference in the world. And they go on a crazy aside about how infidelity isn't what sinks most relationships.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to Heart vs.
Head, a podcast that helpscouples communicate and fight
better.
Here are your hosts, RandyHampton and Beverly Craddock.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
Hey everybody, it's Randy and Beverly.
Welcome to the podcast Heart vs.
Head podcast.
Great to have you along.
Happy that everybody's here.
Beverly, we need to talk aboutsomething.
It's probably time.
We need to talk about breakingup.
Not us.
(00:42):
Talking in general.
We want to help you out.
We see it a lot.
People that end up coming to usand saying, hey, I'm having some
trouble with my relationship.
How do I know?
How do I know if it's worth it?
keeping the relationship goingor is it time to break up?
So I thought we'd explore that abit today, Beverly.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
It's not just people who are assessing whether to
stay or go.
I think breakups is worthtalking about because when
couples come in and theunfortunate thing is that by the
time couples reach out for help,they're usually one foot out the
door.
When you think about the successof coaching, counseling marriage
(01:27):
retreats, all of it, it'sstarting from a very limited...
beginning.
It's starting from a place wherethere's already been a lot of
damage.
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
By the time most couples, nowit's not all couples.
Some couples will be like, hey,we're great.
We're taking the next step.
We're moving in.
We're getting married, whatever.
And we want to make sure that westay great and continue to
communicate.
So we do see those couples.
But by the time the othercouples arrive, there's already
(01:59):
some crap.
There's already some stuff intheir relationship that they
need to We get asked all thetime, what's your success rate?
When you're starting with 80% ofthe people that walk through
your door are already havingconversations about breaking up,
(02:20):
having conversations about, dowe belong together?
What happened?
You're not the person I got intothe relationship with, all of
those things.
So when 80% of your customersare walking through the door
already headed for the exit, itcan be tricky.
We don't save all relationships.
Some of them are at a placewhere they can't be.
(02:42):
So what do you think makes thedifference, Beverly?
How do you draw that line?
I kind of know how I do it in mymind, but how do we draw that
line between knowing is arelationship worth working on or
are you throwing energy away?
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
I think it's always about having a willing partner.
Sometimes we'll find that onepartner, and I hate to pick on
heads here, but sometimes headswill truly point to the heart as
the problem because they're alogical thinker.
They really don't think thatthey're causing the problems or
(03:19):
that really it's the heart thatneeds the work.
They're the emotional one.
They're the one that's crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
It's pretty common.
We heads are so used to pushingthe And controlling it, when we
see a heart who doesn't do itthat way, we think, oh, they're
doing it wrong.
It's easy, I think, for heads tolook at their partner as crazy.
In the same way that heartsoften look at us heads as
(03:50):
narcissists or without feelings,it's easy for a head to look at
the heart partner and go, okay,they're nuts.
And so really when we work withcouples, we'll see that quite a
bit where the heart partnerfeels like everything is their
problem or is very overwhelmedand very emotional.
And the head partner's justdisconnected and kind of stands
(04:13):
back and go, look what I'mdealing with, this crazy person.
The reality is, in all the workthat we've done with clients, I
would tell you it's generallythe head partner that's kind of
the screwed up one.
But that's really hard tounderstand, I think, at first.
(04:33):
You got to kind of do the workand realize, wait a second,
maybe I'm doing this wrong,trying to make everything about
my head and logic and all ofthose things.
And sometimes you just got tofeel it.
And it's not to say that headsare wrong.
Nobody's wrong.
We just do it the way we do it.
(04:54):
But Beverly's right.
Heads are the ones that alwaysare like, I have nothing wrong
with me.
It's them.
That heart partner, they're kindof crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
What's interesting is that a lot of couples think
that infidelity or affairs,cheating, would be the number
one reason why couples wouldseek help or would break up.
And What's interesting for usbeing on the other end and
helping couples is that while wedo have to look at the affair
(05:25):
and the breakup in that way, wealso take this lens of looking
deeper because there is a reasonbefore that, something that was
happening that led to thatcheating, to that affair.
In fact, most listeners wouldprobably be surprised that the
(05:46):
most common common reason for arelationship breakup is actually
poor communication.
It's what underlies or makesevery relationship worse.
When partners struggle toexpress their needs, to
communicate their expectation,to resolve that conflict, to
feel heard or validated, and ifwe can't communicate, ultimately
(06:13):
it's going to create thatdistance.
And just that unresolvedresentment.
So couples will eventually startto feel as though they're
roommates, that they just don'thave any connection.
Maybe the intimacy or sex hasfallen off because of that.
We also look at values or evengoals that might change over
(06:38):
time, so we grow apart.
And there can be those continuedfights, the unresolved conflict,
the over and over frequentthemes that we can't seem to get
past where we're not evenlistening to one another anymore
because it's the same fight overand over and over again and
eventually we lose respect Wedon't appreciate that partner.
(07:02):
Perhaps we feel like we're doingall the work.
The weight is unequal.
What we do is we really helpcouples to get to that
underlying issue, thatcommunication breakdown, and
then to help them to create adifferent vision for their
future.
SPEAKER_02 (07:20):
Yeah, you're absolutely right that it's
communication that's the key tothis because we've helped a ton
of couples that have beenthrough infidelity.
There are reasons behind it andthere are things that happen
when infidelity occurs.
Ultimately, it does involve onething.
One thing is still necessary inorder to help those clients and
(07:41):
it doesn't guarantee that everyrelationship works, but
ultimately, both partners haveto want to.
You've both got to be committedAnd I think if both partners are
committed and willing to learnand willing to grow and willing
to learn to communicate, willingto learn to be honest, then I
think interventions like workingwith coaches or counseling can
(08:06):
have their usefulness.
It doesn't guarantee it.
You can both be wanting to makethe relationship work, and that
in itself is not enough.
But willing to learn...
to communicate, willing to learnto be honest.
And I say learn.
It's not willing to communicateor willing to be honest.
(08:29):
It's willing to learn to behonest for a lot of people.
What we say is, oh, we wanthonesty and we want
communication.
And the person says, well, I'mbeing honest and I'm
communicating.
It isn't that they aren't.
It isn't that they don't wantto.
It's they don't know how.
And that is where the problem.
So if you're both willing tolearn, then you've got a chance.
(08:53):
And I think that's what ittakes.
And willingness to learn iswillingness to sometimes fail.
Failure is how we learn.
You've got to be willing to failin your relationship.
You've got to be willing to tryto come forward and to talk
about things and then realize,okay, that's not the way I need
to talk to my partner aboutthose things.
(09:15):
There's better ways to do it.
That willingness to learn doesinvolve a willingness to fail,
which involves maybe thewillingness to be vulnerable, to
put it out there in front ofyour partner and go, okay,
here's my bad stuff.
What we find more often than notis when partners are willing to
(09:35):
do that, their partner's goingto respond in a totally
different way than they thinktheir partner's going to
respond.
It's not all the criticism.
It's not all the damage.
The partner is able to go, okay,wait, I can help because I can
help you with that.
That's what I do.
That's really where couples canhave the biggest impact.
(09:57):
And some relationships don'tbelong together.
We wanted to specifically talkabout these things.
But if you are in a toxicrelationship, if you are in a
toxic relationship, if you arein a relationship where you're
not growing, if you are in arelationship where your partner
does not allow for your growth,if you're in a relationship
(10:20):
where there's violence, there'sa lot of reasons to get out of
relationships.
There are reasons to break up.
There if those reasons exist, noamount of anybody can change it
if somebody's not willing tochange.
And so that willingness to learnand grow and change is, I think,
(10:42):
at the core of it.
But there's relationships outthere.
And if you're in one of thosewhere you feel discouraged and
you're like, is this over?
That's a great thing to actuallytalk to your partner about.
That's a great place to start aconversation because you're now
going to be able to learn whatgoing on in their mind too.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
Sometimes I think couples get together and in the
beginning, it's that dopaminefilled phase of the
relationship.
When love is that drug, we'reboth hearts.
And the problem with that isthat that's not sustainable over
a long period of time.
So every couple will eventuallygo opposites.
(11:25):
This is the heart and headtheory.
And when they do, that's wherethe problems come up.
Now, it's not a problem thatwe're opposites.
It's actually a verywell-balanced way to be in a
relationship.
It's actually the strongestposition.
If we're two hearts or if we'retwo heads, we're going to
struggle.
Two heads are going to be thatroommate, no passion.
(11:47):
Two hearts are going to be somuch passion that no one's
working on the future.
And the thing about opposites isthat when we turn opposite, we
no longer connect in that sameway.
We don't don't communicate thesame way, that's where the
breakdowns occur.
And that's where couplesstruggle.
And some couples will be married40 years and never get past that
(12:12):
phase two problem in decisionsthat all couples will eventually
go through.
SPEAKER_02 (12:17):
Yeah, it's a phase of the relationship, certainly,
where you start making decisionsfrom your core relationship
style.
You are in your relationship.
You're acting in heart mode.
You're acting in head mode andyour partner's probably doing it
the other way.
And when you can learn it andreally learn it, you've got a
(12:40):
chance.
You've got a chance when you canlook at your partner and go,
well, wait a second.
That's why you do it.
That's how you do it.
That's how you do life.
That's how you make thosedecisions.
Couples get stuck in it becausewe see that other person and
we're like, how can they be thatway?
How can they be different thanthey were when we got together?
(13:01):
Back when all the dopamine wasrunning high and everybody was
high on the dopamine goodfeelings of falling in love,
we're both hearts.
And so it is that change alongthe way.
Eventually, that other partnergoes back into head mode.
And Beverly's right.
There's extremely strong balancein that.
(13:22):
It's a great way to raise kids.
It's a great way to live life.
It's a great way to stayconnected if you can learn that
each of you has this strength.
This power, this ability becauseof your relationship style, it's
fabulous.
But you better understand itbecause like Beverly said,
there's couples that come in andthey've been together for 40
(13:42):
years and they're still arguingabout what partner A did 25
years ago.
It can be sticky.
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
So this last few minutes here that we have, I
want to focus on an example.
And the story that comes to mindis a couple that we saw a few
years back.
They have been married for maybe35, 40 years.
And unfortunately, there hadbeen some infidelity.
This couple came to us and rightaway, the first things they said
(14:13):
is they had been to four or fivedifferent relationship
therapists and and had firedthem all.
They were intrigued by ourapproach being very different,
very alternative on purpose.
So as we sat down and listenedto this couple, what was
interesting is He was the head,she the heart.
(14:37):
However, because of his career,he was gone a lot, traveled.
And so all those years withkids, she had to take on kind of
a single mom.
They were married, but she wasrunning the household, doing all
the things while he wastraveling for work.
And she became very headlight.
(14:58):
So then over time, when he wouldcome home and would miss her and
have all these long months away,when he would come home, he
would be in heart mode.
So he was looking for love,connection, intimacy, and she
was very much in head mode, veryabrasive, sometimes could be
viewed as critical, and waslooking for respect and
(15:22):
appreciation for all the workthat she had done to keep the
family together, to keep thehouse running.
This is where the communicationbreakdown happened.
This is where we had differentneeds that were not
communicated.
SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
And this is where infidelity creeps in when the
head partner comes home enoughand goes, wait, I can't get that
connection.
I can't get that intimacy.
Now they're not getting whatthey think they need in the
relationship.
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
It was a flipped couple is the way Randy and I
refer to that, where they'recoming in and she's appearing
very, very head, he very heart.
However, it doesn't take longbecause Randy and I've done this
work many, many times, hundredsif not thousands of couples by
now, and we could spot that thiswas a flipped couple.
(16:19):
And so we explained to them whatwas really going on underneath
the obvious, you know, kind ofthe forest for the trees, what
they could not see in theirrelationship.
So as we explained that, a lotof head nods, okay, they were
pretty impressed.
that we could drill into thatwithin an hour.
So then we did some coachingaround that to kind of explain
(16:41):
heart and head how they gotwhere they got and why that was
a problem, why that was going tocreate the environment that
eventually led to theinfidelity.
So this couple came back.
They were very excited aboutfinally finding someone who
could actually understand thedynamic.
They came back for a secondsession.
(17:02):
We worked on individualdefenses, triggers, the things
that really led to the flippingand not recognizing the
different roles they were in.
And by the third session, whichif not familiar with our model,
we usually see couples for aboutthree sessions.
We feel pretty good aboutturning things around fairly
(17:22):
quickly.
So by the third session, allsmiles.
And this couple was really happybecause when we start to see
some some change, some progress,we get very excited as humans.
It's like a baby that islearning to go from crawling to
(17:44):
walking.
And if you watch a baby, theyfall down a lot.
It takes a lot of work.
But before you know it, everyfailure leads to them learning
to getting muscle memory.
And eventually, that baby willstand and not only stand, but
will very quickly go fromstanding to walking to running.
And that's how humans are.
(18:05):
We're very good at progressingonce we get on the right path.
And so this couple was very muchlike that.
I think they came in for afourth session because they
really wanted to work on thefuture and going forward and
making sure that they couldmaintain all that they had
(18:25):
learned through the work that wedid with them.
One of the things about thiscouple and individually I really
worked with the heart.
She was the heart and had lostthat heart through all of it,
all those years.
And when I really met with herindividually, we were able to
(18:48):
find that heart again.
SPEAKER_02 (18:49):
Super, super important that you settle into
what's naturally your style inthe relationship and understand
it.
If you're both willing to learn,you're both willing to work on
it, the relationship's probablyworth working on.
If one partner's not, maybe it'snot.
Hopefully this gives yousomething to think about.
That's Heart vs.
(19:09):
Head for this week.
Thanks for tuning into thepodcast.
Once again, we love seeing allof you around the world and
where you're from and looking atthe map and being kind of, I
don't know, maybe like podcastnerdy about it.
We're glad you're out there.
If you have questions, if youhave topics that you think you
might want to hear our take onor our perspective on, drop us
(19:31):
an email, info at heartandheadThanks
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
for listening to Heart vs.
Head.
You can learn more atheartandheadcoaching.com.
And check out new podcastepisodes every Wednesday.
If you have a question for Randyand Beverly, send an email to
info atheartandheadcoaching.com.
Welcome to Heart vs.
Head, a podcast that helpscouples communicate and fight
better.
Here are your hosts, RandyHampton and Beverly Craddock.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
Hey everybody, it's Randy and Beverly.
Welcome to the podcast Heart vs.
Head podcast.
Great to have you along.
Happy that everybody's here.
Beverly, we need to talk aboutsomething.
It's probably time.
We need to talk about breakingup.
Not us.
(00:42):
Talking in general.
We want to help you out.
We see it a lot.
People that end up coming to usand saying, hey, I'm having some
trouble with my relationship.
How do I know?
How do I know if it's worth it?
keeping the relationship goingor is it time to break up?
So I thought we'd explore that abit today, Beverly.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02):
It's not just people who are assessing whether to
stay or go.
I think breakups is worthtalking about because when
couples come in and theunfortunate thing is that by the
time couples reach out for help,they're usually one foot out the
door.
When you think about the successof coaching, counseling marriage
(01:27):
retreats, all of it, it'sstarting from a very limited...
beginning.
It's starting from a place wherethere's already been a lot of
damage.
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
By the time most couples, nowit's not all couples.
Some couples will be like, hey,we're great.
We're taking the next step.
We're moving in.
We're getting married, whatever.
And we want to make sure that westay great and continue to
communicate.
So we do see those couples.
But by the time the othercouples arrive, there's already
(01:59):
some crap.
There's already some stuff intheir relationship that they
need to We get asked all thetime, what's your success rate?
When you're starting with 80% ofthe people that walk through
your door are already havingconversations about breaking up,
(02:20):
having conversations about, dowe belong together?
What happened?
You're not the person I got intothe relationship with, all of
those things.
So when 80% of your customersare walking through the door
already headed for the exit, itcan be tricky.
We don't save all relationships.
Some of them are at a placewhere they can't be.
(02:42):
So what do you think makes thedifference, Beverly?
How do you draw that line?
I kind of know how I do it in mymind, but how do we draw that
line between knowing is arelationship worth working on or
are you throwing energy away?
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
I think it's always about having a willing partner.
Sometimes we'll find that onepartner, and I hate to pick on
heads here, but sometimes headswill truly point to the heart as
the problem because they're alogical thinker.
They really don't think thatthey're causing the problems or
(03:19):
that really it's the heart thatneeds the work.
They're the emotional one.
They're the one that's crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
It's pretty common.
We heads are so used to pushingthe And controlling it, when we
see a heart who doesn't do itthat way, we think, oh, they're
doing it wrong.
It's easy, I think, for heads tolook at their partner as crazy.
In the same way that heartsoften look at us heads as
(03:50):
narcissists or without feelings,it's easy for a head to look at
the heart partner and go, okay,they're nuts.
And so really when we work withcouples, we'll see that quite a
bit where the heart partnerfeels like everything is their
problem or is very overwhelmedand very emotional.
And the head partner's justdisconnected and kind of stands
(04:13):
back and go, look what I'mdealing with, this crazy person.
The reality is, in all the workthat we've done with clients, I
would tell you it's generallythe head partner that's kind of
the screwed up one.
But that's really hard tounderstand, I think, at first.
(04:33):
You got to kind of do the workand realize, wait a second,
maybe I'm doing this wrong,trying to make everything about
my head and logic and all ofthose things.
And sometimes you just got tofeel it.
And it's not to say that headsare wrong.
Nobody's wrong.
We just do it the way we do it.
(04:54):
But Beverly's right.
Heads are the ones that alwaysare like, I have nothing wrong
with me.
It's them.
That heart partner, they're kindof crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (05:04):
What's interesting is that a lot of couples think
that infidelity or affairs,cheating, would be the number
one reason why couples wouldseek help or would break up.
And What's interesting for usbeing on the other end and
helping couples is that while wedo have to look at the affair
(05:25):
and the breakup in that way, wealso take this lens of looking
deeper because there is a reasonbefore that, something that was
happening that led to thatcheating, to that affair.
In fact, most listeners wouldprobably be surprised that the
(05:46):
most common common reason for arelationship breakup is actually
poor communication.
It's what underlies or makesevery relationship worse.
When partners struggle toexpress their needs, to
communicate their expectation,to resolve that conflict, to
feel heard or validated, and ifwe can't communicate, ultimately
(06:13):
it's going to create thatdistance.
And just that unresolvedresentment.
So couples will eventually startto feel as though they're
roommates, that they just don'thave any connection.
Maybe the intimacy or sex hasfallen off because of that.
We also look at values or evengoals that might change over
(06:38):
time, so we grow apart.
And there can be those continuedfights, the unresolved conflict,
the over and over frequentthemes that we can't seem to get
past where we're not evenlistening to one another anymore
because it's the same fight overand over and over again and
eventually we lose respect Wedon't appreciate that partner.
(07:02):
Perhaps we feel like we're doingall the work.
The weight is unequal.
What we do is we really helpcouples to get to that
underlying issue, thatcommunication breakdown, and
then to help them to create adifferent vision for their
future.
SPEAKER_02 (07:20):
Yeah, you're absolutely right that it's
communication that's the key tothis because we've helped a ton
of couples that have beenthrough infidelity.
There are reasons behind it andthere are things that happen
when infidelity occurs.
Ultimately, it does involve onething.
One thing is still necessary inorder to help those clients and
(07:41):
it doesn't guarantee that everyrelationship works, but
ultimately, both partners haveto want to.
You've both got to be committedAnd I think if both partners are
committed and willing to learnand willing to grow and willing
to learn to communicate, willingto learn to be honest, then I
think interventions like workingwith coaches or counseling can
(08:06):
have their usefulness.
It doesn't guarantee it.
You can both be wanting to makethe relationship work, and that
in itself is not enough.
But willing to learn...
to communicate, willing to learnto be honest.
And I say learn.
It's not willing to communicateor willing to be honest.
(08:29):
It's willing to learn to behonest for a lot of people.
What we say is, oh, we wanthonesty and we want
communication.
And the person says, well, I'mbeing honest and I'm
communicating.
It isn't that they aren't.
It isn't that they don't wantto.
It's they don't know how.
And that is where the problem.
So if you're both willing tolearn, then you've got a chance.
(08:53):
And I think that's what ittakes.
And willingness to learn iswillingness to sometimes fail.
Failure is how we learn.
You've got to be willing to failin your relationship.
You've got to be willing to tryto come forward and to talk
about things and then realize,okay, that's not the way I need
to talk to my partner aboutthose things.
(09:15):
There's better ways to do it.
That willingness to learn doesinvolve a willingness to fail,
which involves maybe thewillingness to be vulnerable, to
put it out there in front ofyour partner and go, okay,
here's my bad stuff.
What we find more often than notis when partners are willing to
(09:35):
do that, their partner's goingto respond in a totally
different way than they thinktheir partner's going to
respond.
It's not all the criticism.
It's not all the damage.
The partner is able to go, okay,wait, I can help because I can
help you with that.
That's what I do.
That's really where couples canhave the biggest impact.
(09:57):
And some relationships don'tbelong together.
We wanted to specifically talkabout these things.
But if you are in a toxicrelationship, if you are in a
toxic relationship, if you arein a relationship where you're
not growing, if you are in arelationship where your partner
does not allow for your growth,if you're in a relationship
(10:20):
where there's violence, there'sa lot of reasons to get out of
relationships.
There are reasons to break up.
There if those reasons exist, noamount of anybody can change it
if somebody's not willing tochange.
And so that willingness to learnand grow and change is, I think,
(10:42):
at the core of it.
But there's relationships outthere.
And if you're in one of thosewhere you feel discouraged and
you're like, is this over?
That's a great thing to actuallytalk to your partner about.
That's a great place to start aconversation because you're now
going to be able to learn whatgoing on in their mind too.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
Sometimes I think couples get together and in the
beginning, it's that dopaminefilled phase of the
relationship.
When love is that drug, we'reboth hearts.
And the problem with that isthat that's not sustainable over
a long period of time.
So every couple will eventuallygo opposites.
(11:25):
This is the heart and headtheory.
And when they do, that's wherethe problems come up.
Now, it's not a problem thatwe're opposites.
It's actually a verywell-balanced way to be in a
relationship.
It's actually the strongestposition.
If we're two hearts or if we'retwo heads, we're going to
struggle.
Two heads are going to be thatroommate, no passion.
(11:47):
Two hearts are going to be somuch passion that no one's
working on the future.
And the thing about opposites isthat when we turn opposite, we
no longer connect in that sameway.
We don't don't communicate thesame way, that's where the
breakdowns occur.
And that's where couplesstruggle.
And some couples will be married40 years and never get past that
(12:12):
phase two problem in decisionsthat all couples will eventually
go through.
SPEAKER_02 (12:17):
Yeah, it's a phase of the relationship, certainly,
where you start making decisionsfrom your core relationship
style.
You are in your relationship.
You're acting in heart mode.
You're acting in head mode andyour partner's probably doing it
the other way.
And when you can learn it andreally learn it, you've got a
(12:40):
chance.
You've got a chance when you canlook at your partner and go,
well, wait a second.
That's why you do it.
That's how you do it.
That's how you do life.
That's how you make thosedecisions.
Couples get stuck in it becausewe see that other person and
we're like, how can they be thatway?
How can they be different thanthey were when we got together?
(13:01):
Back when all the dopamine wasrunning high and everybody was
high on the dopamine goodfeelings of falling in love,
we're both hearts.
And so it is that change alongthe way.
Eventually, that other partnergoes back into head mode.
And Beverly's right.
There's extremely strong balancein that.
(13:22):
It's a great way to raise kids.
It's a great way to live life.
It's a great way to stayconnected if you can learn that
each of you has this strength.
This power, this ability becauseof your relationship style, it's
fabulous.
But you better understand itbecause like Beverly said,
there's couples that come in andthey've been together for 40
(13:42):
years and they're still arguingabout what partner A did 25
years ago.
It can be sticky.
SPEAKER_01 (13:50):
So this last few minutes here that we have, I
want to focus on an example.
And the story that comes to mindis a couple that we saw a few
years back.
They have been married for maybe35, 40 years.
And unfortunately, there hadbeen some infidelity.
This couple came to us and rightaway, the first things they said
(14:13):
is they had been to four or fivedifferent relationship
therapists and and had firedthem all.
They were intrigued by ourapproach being very different,
very alternative on purpose.
So as we sat down and listenedto this couple, what was
interesting is He was the head,she the heart.
(14:37):
However, because of his career,he was gone a lot, traveled.
And so all those years withkids, she had to take on kind of
a single mom.
They were married, but she wasrunning the household, doing all
the things while he wastraveling for work.
And she became very headlight.
(14:58):
So then over time, when he wouldcome home and would miss her and
have all these long months away,when he would come home, he
would be in heart mode.
So he was looking for love,connection, intimacy, and she
was very much in head mode, veryabrasive, sometimes could be
viewed as critical, and waslooking for respect and
(15:22):
appreciation for all the workthat she had done to keep the
family together, to keep thehouse running.
This is where the communicationbreakdown happened.
This is where we had differentneeds that were not
communicated.
SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
And this is where infidelity creeps in when the
head partner comes home enoughand goes, wait, I can't get that
connection.
I can't get that intimacy.
Now they're not getting whatthey think they need in the
relationship.
SPEAKER_01 (15:58):
It was a flipped couple is the way Randy and I
refer to that, where they'recoming in and she's appearing
very, very head, he very heart.
However, it doesn't take longbecause Randy and I've done this
work many, many times, hundredsif not thousands of couples by
now, and we could spot that thiswas a flipped couple.
(16:19):
And so we explained to them whatwas really going on underneath
the obvious, you know, kind ofthe forest for the trees, what
they could not see in theirrelationship.
So as we explained that, a lotof head nods, okay, they were
pretty impressed.
that we could drill into thatwithin an hour.
So then we did some coachingaround that to kind of explain
(16:41):
heart and head how they gotwhere they got and why that was
a problem, why that was going tocreate the environment that
eventually led to theinfidelity.
So this couple came back.
They were very excited aboutfinally finding someone who
could actually understand thedynamic.
They came back for a secondsession.
(17:02):
We worked on individualdefenses, triggers, the things
that really led to the flippingand not recognizing the
different roles they were in.
And by the third session, whichif not familiar with our model,
we usually see couples for aboutthree sessions.
We feel pretty good aboutturning things around fairly
(17:22):
quickly.
So by the third session, allsmiles.
And this couple was really happybecause when we start to see
some some change, some progress,we get very excited as humans.
It's like a baby that islearning to go from crawling to
(17:44):
walking.
And if you watch a baby, theyfall down a lot.
It takes a lot of work.
But before you know it, everyfailure leads to them learning
to getting muscle memory.
And eventually, that baby willstand and not only stand, but
will very quickly go fromstanding to walking to running.
And that's how humans are.
(18:05):
We're very good at progressingonce we get on the right path.
And so this couple was very muchlike that.
I think they came in for afourth session because they
really wanted to work on thefuture and going forward and
making sure that they couldmaintain all that they had
(18:25):
learned through the work that wedid with them.
One of the things about thiscouple and individually I really
worked with the heart.
She was the heart and had lostthat heart through all of it,
all those years.
And when I really met with herindividually, we were able to
(18:48):
find that heart again.
SPEAKER_02 (18:49):
Super, super important that you settle into
what's naturally your style inthe relationship and understand
it.
If you're both willing to learn,you're both willing to work on
it, the relationship's probablyworth working on.
If one partner's not, maybe it'snot.
Hopefully this gives yousomething to think about.
That's Heart vs.
(19:09):
Head for this week.
Thanks for tuning into thepodcast.
Once again, we love seeing allof you around the world and
where you're from and looking atthe map and being kind of, I
don't know, maybe like podcastnerdy about it.
We're glad you're out there.
If you have questions, if youhave topics that you think you
might want to hear our take onor our perspective on, drop us
(19:31):
an email, info at heartandheadThanks
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
for listening to Heart vs.
Head.
You can learn more atheartandheadcoaching.com.
And check out new podcastepisodes every Wednesday.
If you have a question for Randyand Beverly, send an email to
info atheartandheadcoaching.com.
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