July 30, 2025 • 23 mins
Remember that episode about The Moment a few weeks ago? Well, Beverly had a moment too. This time around, you'll see why Beverly told Randy that he was a better boyfriend than a husband... and figure out how that happens in a relationship. If you ever felt like the amazing person you dated, became the less than stellar person you got stuck with... this one is for you. #HeartVersusHead
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to Heart vs.
Head, a podcast that helpscouples communicate and fight
better.
Here are your hosts, RandyHampton and Beverly Craddock.
SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
Heart vs.
Head.
So a couple of weeks ago, wewere talking about something we
talked about, the moment.
It's the moment in arelationship where your partner
lets you down, that moment whenyou realize this person can hurt
me like all the other peopledid.
We talked about my moment.
We talked about Nicholas Sparks.
(00:49):
But today, we're going to talkabout something different.
We're going to talk about kindof Beverly's moment.
Beverly, when was the moment foryou, maybe in our relationship,
where you knew I could let youdown just like everybody else?
SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
It had to do with some parenting advice that you
were giving as you weretransitioning into moving in
with me.
We got married in June and witha job change and geography
difference of four hours, youeventually moved in, but it was
(01:25):
a bit of a lag there.
So we had probably nine or 10months where we were more of a
long distance relationship, moreof that boyfriend friend type
relationship role.
And then when you moved in, andI think that's when we started
to settle in.
And that's when the first thingwas this relationship advice.
(01:45):
And I do remember theconversation.
But more importantly, once I sawthat Randy could let me down, it
changed a lot of things.
One of the things that changedwas I started looking for more
evidence of him letting me down.
And of course, what you golooking for, you're going to
find.
And there were things like oncehe moved in, we weren't spending
(02:10):
every night, hours and hourstogether.
When we were long distance, we'dget on the phone for three or
four hours at night, have thesewonderful conversations.
All the connection that a heartcould ever want was there in
that long distance relationship.
SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
And then in true head fashion, like a good head
partner, my attention turned toall the other stuff.
It's what it does.
We just start paying attentionto all the other stuff in life.
And it's not that we don't loveour partner.
It's not that we don't thinkabout them.
(02:48):
It's just kind of how our brainworks.
When that part of our life seemsstable and good, we're idiots.
We're off paying attention toother stuff.
And we're not even...
aware of it.
Let me ask you a question,Beverly, because it probably
matters.
The parenting advice I gave you,was it terrible?
No.
(03:08):
So was it completely wrong?
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
No, not at all.
I would say you were probablyspot on.
It always helps to have anoutside opinion.
And I do value your parentingskills.
I value way that you look atthings so differently than I do,
that head perspective, seeing asI had been a single mom for 13
years, but prior to you and Igetting married, I can look back
(03:36):
now and see where this is whykids really do need two parents.
Unfortunately, my first husband,just for listeners, he and I
divorced in because of hisalcoholism, and then he died in
2019.
So he just was not able tofulfill his parenting duties.
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
I just had to point out, I wanted to point out that
you can- You were right.
No, I was.
Okay.
Of course.
Good enough.
SPEAKER_01 (04:06):
Sure had.
I was
SPEAKER_02 (04:07):
right.
However, I want to point outthat- Was it worth it?
You can be right, and you shouldjust shut up.
Yeah.
And that's a tough thing forheads because we're always
trying to be right.
But being right is not alwayshelpful to your relationship.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Yeah, it took me probably three or four years to
realize that you were right.
You were going to let me downeventually.
We know that.
Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Sure.
That's especially me.
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
I'm not singling you out.
I'm saying all people will hurtand let down others.
Other people.
SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
Okay, in the big picture, I understand that.
I was just saying, you know,you're not singling me out.
Are there others?
Do you have other husbands thatneed to be?
Wait a second.
No.
Single me out.
I should be the only one.
But no, I know what you'retalking about.
No, I'm saying I
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
have other people I care about that let me down.
You know, when this happened andthen it set me down a road of
looking for all the ways thatyou were letting me down.
And then that's what ended up inprobably a couple of months
later when Randy and I arehaving some discussion or talk.
(05:19):
And I end up with the famousline, you were a better
boyfriend.
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
You were a better boyfriend.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
So hearts sometimes don't have that filter.
We're coming from an emotionaltrigger.
Sometimes.
It's not our best moment, butgreat podcast material, I'll
say.
SPEAKER_02 (05:41):
14 years later, 15 years later, it's funny.
You know, sometimes when you'regoing right through it, it's
not.
A lot of the things in yourrelationship that you argue and
fight about now will be thingsthat you will laugh about in 20
years, just so you know.
The
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
thing about you being a better boyfriend, if you
think about it during that sixto nine months before you moved
in, and that's really where thattransition happens in
relationships is once we becomeofficial, maybe we're moving in
together or getting married, andthat's when those roles begin to
(06:19):
change.
And what we always tell ourclients is that phase one of a
relationship, the dating phase,is that cocaine, drug-feeling,
endorphin-laden phase.
And so we're both two hearts andwe just have this amazing
relationship because neither ofus is using our frontal
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
lobe.
(07:02):
When you find your person andyou're just in the flow and
everything's wonderful, it seemsso great, then there's the
moment.
There's the moment where thatperson does something and we go,
oh my gosh, it's because theydon't love me or they don't care
about me or maybe I thought theyloved me more than they loved
me.
I don't know what all goes on ineverybody's heads.
(07:23):
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (07:23):
we think they're different.
Oh, this person will never letus down.
They've got my back.
We've made plans together,dreams together, and we are just
shocked when that comes around.
We shouldn't have
SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
plans together and the dreams together.
I think some of that is justbullshit that our head makes up.
It's not even that.
It's like we didn't disappointthe plans and dreams we had
together.
We disappointed the You know,the fantasy, we disappointed the
even the movie version of whatour relationship supposed to be
like.
And when suddenly we're not thatperson as the head partner, the
(08:01):
heart partners hurt.
And it leads to a lot of thesekind of inner resentments and
all of those things that theycan really build and develop
over time.
If you're not aware of thesemoments, if you don't catch
them, they just they do damage.
They do damage because theydamage.
us individually as our brainsits and tries to figure out
(08:24):
what the hell is wrong with usthat people can't love us or
what's wrong with us that wepicked the wrong partner there's
all kinds of messages that justkind of automatically run in our
head when we have theseexperiences and we're not wrong
it's just if we're not aware ofit and we're not talking about
it it doesn't resolve and itsits there and festers and
festers and festers and then outOut of our mouth comes the
(08:47):
thing, you were a betterboyfriend.
And I probably was a betterboyfriend.
See, there's truth.
Yeah, no, I was a betterboyfriend, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
I got flowers all the time and we would
communicate more and connectmore.
We cooked dinner every nighttogether.
There were so many wonderfulconnection points.
And then as Randy got back intohis career focus and the
relationship was going sosmoothly, he put his focus
toward other things.
(09:16):
And that's when I felt like heabandoned me.
He was just gone and somewhatrejected and something must be
wrong.
And I started putting on mydetective hat and looking for
where's the problem.
SPEAKER_02 (09:31):
Looking for where's the problem.
And that's really the challengebecause- there maybe wasn't a
problem.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
Okay, but even then I'm looking for the drug.
I'm looking for the cocaine.
SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
Yeah, we're looking for the high of the love because
it's awesome.
It's that connection.
It's that deep connection.
It's that feeling that we getthat makes us like it so much.
It's just that hearts love thefeeling so much and heads do
this thing where we think we'vegot to maintain that feeling in
all the areas of our life.
So we're kind of looking acrossit broadly going, okay, I need
(10:04):
my job to make me feel that way.
I need my friends to make mefeel that way.
I need to kick butt at my Myhobbies to make me feel that
way.
I need my partner to make mefeel that way.
That wonderful, good, I am doingwell feeling that we get when
we're good in the relationship.
When we're a good boyfriend, weget that feeling.
(10:24):
And that's kind of what ourfeeling is.
This is a feeling of success.
I don't think it's that headsare seeking love like hearts
are.
I think it's that heads areseeking that good feeling of,
yay, I made that person happy.
I made that person love.
I let them feel love.
(10:45):
I made them love me.
I love them.
I am successful as a person.
I have managed and found love.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
I guess where I wanted to discuss is so many
clients come in, so many hearts,and They're dragging in their
partner.
And the reason is they'relooking for that drug, that high
that we had in the beginning.
And everyone's trying torecreate that.
(11:14):
And I'm amazed at how much timeand effort and money couples
will spend, usually before theyget to us, because they've done
counseling or counseling.
some form of therapy forpotentially years, trying to
sort out all the problems sothat they can get back to that
(11:35):
bliss that they felt in thebeginning.
The problem is that you're notgoing to recreate that.
That is a dating thing and we'renot going to get that.
In fact, I was doing a littleresearch and What happens, I
think, with dating is at somelevel, let's face it, we're all
(11:57):
trying to win our partner'saffection or approval.
We're trying to impress them.
SPEAKER_02 (12:03):
Well, sure.
We're trying to, whether you gowith the biological of we're
trying to breed and continue thespecies, or we're trying to
impress them so we have a personand we have a relationship and
our mom and dad are happier.
There can be a million differentreasons for why we're trying to
impress that person.
And then comes the time we win.
(12:24):
We go, okay, I got the person,and now I don't have to do that
as much.
I don't have to– I don't have todo as much.
And it's not right.
And it's not the best way forrelationships.
But darn it, it is how we feeland experience it and what our
brain does to us when we're init.
So it's not that the headpartner is intentionally moving
(12:46):
away from the heart partner.
I don't think.
I never felt that way.
I never, ever, ever, ever feltlike I loved you less than
SPEAKER_01 (12:57):
No, you probably loved me more because we had
that constant...
stable relationship.
And so for the head, they'revery happy that we've reached
this place of, isn't this great,where everything was running so
smoothly, and we're so happy,and I'm free to focus on these
other parts of my life.
And the heart is sitting theregoing, no, no, no, no, no, no,
(13:20):
everything is not great.
This is a disaster.
And that is exactly what heartssay to me when they come in.
They say, we're about to breakup.
And the head is like, what?
SPEAKER_02 (13:32):
We're kind of oblivious to it because for us,
it's just a feel thateverything's going okay.
Life is right.
Oh, yay.
We got married.
We moved in together.
We're celebrating that.
And gosh, do I enjoy theevenings and getting to spend
time with you and not having thepressure of all the other stuff
that was going on.
(13:53):
And I need to turn my attentionto work because now I've taken
on a responsibility of thiswonderful woman that I love very
much and her kids and a house.
The brain starts thinking aboutall these things we have to do
because we're heads over herebeing doers.
There's all these things we haveto do and that gets in the way
(14:16):
and it messes us up.
Neither of us is right or wrong,but you darn well need to be
aware of it.
Because heads do need to do abetter job of making sure that
the connection is there, thatwe're maintaining that, that
we're taking care of that, thatwe are always, always, always,
always keeping our partner as apriority.
(14:38):
But it's going to wane.
It's going to fade.
You're going to be a betterboyfriend.
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
One of the differences that we write about
in the couple's rulebook is thatthat heads have that more future
focus and hearts are very muchin the present.
Randy and I noticed that becauseRandy At one point, I had shared
a dream of living in a house onthe lake and being able to...
(15:05):
Ah, the
SPEAKER_02 (15:06):
lake house story.
SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
Being able to just hang out together.
Again, it's a veryconnection-ridden story because
that's what a heart talks aboutand dreams about.
SPEAKER_02 (15:16):
Love the lake house.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
And so once this dream...
is in Randy's head.
Then the weeks, months, andyears after, I look over and I'm
sitting in silence on the couch,bored, lonely, looking over,
asking Randy, what are youdoing?
What's on the computer that's sointeresting?
And he's like, I'm looking atlake houses so proudly.
(15:39):
And all I say to Bakht is, all Ican think of is, you know what,
there's not going to be a lakehouse because if you don't put
your computer down and look intomy eyes and spend some time with
me in the present, There will beno future.
SPEAKER_02 (15:52):
There is no lake house.
The interesting thing is a lakehouse never really my goal.
I'm not the water guy.
I don't need to be around thewater, see the water, hang out
in the water, play in the water,know that the water exists.
The guy that lives in Hawaii.
I've learned to be a water guy.
I learned to love the idea ofthe lake house from you.
(16:15):
Mm-hmm.
It's the idea of all of it, theidea of water.
You're the water girl.
And so I learned that.
And I took that dream and Iheaded it all up, you know,
bring it inside and go, okay,she wants this dream.
If I can fulfill her dream, I'mher guy.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Make a list.
SPEAKER_02 (16:35):
Right.
Make a list.
And that's what heads do.
We're making that list.
We're going, okay, I got to dothis.
I got to do this.
I got to do this.
And I got to buy a lake house.
Heads are doers.
It's what we think we'resupposed to do because we think
the doing makes our heartpartner happy.
And that's where we get itwrong.
It is the connection that makesthe heart partner happy.
Heads, you're doing it wrong.
You're working too hard.
(16:57):
We're working too hard on it.
We're doing all this stufftrying to make this person, our
heart partner, happy.
And we're doing it wrong.
We're putting all our energyinto the wrong stuff.
Stay with the connection.
Stay with the love.
Because that's what reallymatters in the long run anyways.
It's what you've got tomaintain.
(17:19):
Because when the two of you area team, you're going to achieve
the lake house.
You're going to achieve the goodparenting.
You're going to achieve all thethings you need to achieve.
You're going to have theopportunity to be right.
when you can make sure that yourpartner feels loved.
Because they're going to let yoube loved.
Hearts, if they feel loved,they'll let you be right all the
(17:39):
time.
So it's easier to even get thethings you want, the ego boosts
you want, the recognition, therespect, everything you want.
It's all right there for you,heads, if you can figure out,
how do I keep this love strong?
Because a heart is powered byit.
And when Beverly's happy, lifeis easy.
(18:01):
And the trick is it's not aboutdoing all this stuff, the list,
to keep her happy.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah.
In fact, okay, so time for ametaphor.
SPEAKER_02 (18:09):
She even pauses now when she drops metaphors.
She's like, okay, let me explainit this way, but I'll pause so
Randy can say somethingdifferent.
funny because my metaphorsare...
She wants me to say somethingkind of goofy, so it kind of
lightens your expectation as alistener of her metaphor.
But
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
anyways...
You always make fun of mymetaphors.
I just wait for it.
SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
Some of them are good.
SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
They're all good.
Okay.
So it's kind of like a garden.
So if you're out, you plantseeds, you're maybe growing
vegetables, flowers, whateverkind of garden you want.
Maybe it's just a spice garden.
UNKNOWN (18:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
And you go out, you invest all this time and energy,
put the seats down and waterthem and so forth.
But when somebody puts all ofthat interest and energy and
expense into planting the seedand so forth.
But then they get busy and theyforget to come out and tend to
the weeds or make sure that theplant is growing in the right
(19:14):
conditions.
Maybe it needs fertilizer, maybeit needs a little more water,
whatever that is.
If you just plant it and thenwalk away, it's possible that
those plants aren't going to dowell.
And I equate that to whathappens in dating is that We
find that our partner is someonethat's more curious and
(19:34):
interested in us, someone whoputs a lot of time and attention
into us.
And what happens inrelationships is when you put
your focus somewhere else, thenyou're no longer really
investing in our relationship.
And that's where I think theshift happens and things go bad.
(19:56):
I get it.
Plants, you can throw a seed inHawaii and it'll pretty much
grow no matter what.
SPEAKER_02 (20:01):
Well, it will also attract giant jeweled beetles
that lay larvae the size of yourthumb.
So, you know, there is that.
But anyways, I love the gardenmetaphor.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
So plants anywhere really do need time and
attention.
You wouldn't just set it andleave it and forget about it.
And that's how it feels to aheart.
This podcast can come across asbeing somewhat hard on heads,
and that is not my intent.
Heads and hearts make...
great relationships.
(20:34):
If I were to offer just a bit ofadvice, I would say once that
phase of dating is coming to aclose and now we're settling
into what is sustainable in therelationship.
I think each partner needs torecognize the shift is actually
very positive.
(20:55):
It does mean that yourrelationship is very stable.
We can't maintain that datinghigh that we talk about.
If we understand that therelationship isn't heading into
a disaster, it's just goingthrough a normal shift, I think
everybody will settle down abit.
(21:16):
The heart will stop being such adetective and won't be seeking
to fix this or to solve it.
Also, I think for heads, if youcan remember the garden idea,
that it's good if you cancontinue to invest in the
intimacy, the connection withyour partner and And just both
(21:38):
of you kind of working together,communicating, and knowing that
as the love is maturing, that itdoes need tending, but it can
also be something even moreamazing than what it was during
dating.
It doesn't have to be as boringas settling in, but it can be a
(22:00):
little bit of both.
And we'll talk about that in alater podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (22:06):
For hearts, recognize that it's not an
intentional thing.
It's not an on purpose thing.
You got to watch for the shift,recognize the shift when it
occurs, recognize when you seethat going on, because if you
can both recognize it, heads cando a better job of making sure
that they're taking care of thegarden, taking care of love,
taking care of the relationshipand maintaining that.
(22:27):
And hearts can be mindful thatit's not personal.
It's not personal.
I never, ever, ever moved awayfrom Beverly emotionally it just
felt that way and it was neverever ever anything I wanted her
to feel That's it for this weekon the podcast.
Talk about it amongstyourselves.
We look forward to talking toyou all very, very soon.
(22:50):
If you're new to Heart vs.
Head, go check out some of thepast episodes.
There's a ton of stuff.
Talk about these things withyour partner.
It will change everything.
Thanks, everybody.
We'll talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
And Randy,
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
I love you.
I love you
SPEAKER_01 (23:06):
too,
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
baby.
UNKNOWN (23:06):
I love you, too.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
Thanks for listening to Heart vs.
Head.
You can learn more atheartandheadcoaching.com and
check out new podcast episodesevery Wednesday.
If you have a question for Randyand Beverly, send an email to
info atheartandheadcoaching.com.
Welcome to Heart vs.
Head, a podcast that helpscouples communicate and fight
better.
Here are your hosts, RandyHampton and Beverly Craddock.
SPEAKER_02 (00:27):
Heart vs.
Head.
So a couple of weeks ago, wewere talking about something we
talked about, the moment.
It's the moment in arelationship where your partner
lets you down, that moment whenyou realize this person can hurt
me like all the other peopledid.
We talked about my moment.
We talked about Nicholas Sparks.
(00:49):
But today, we're going to talkabout something different.
We're going to talk about kindof Beverly's moment.
Beverly, when was the moment foryou, maybe in our relationship,
where you knew I could let youdown just like everybody else?
SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
It had to do with some parenting advice that you
were giving as you weretransitioning into moving in
with me.
We got married in June and witha job change and geography
difference of four hours, youeventually moved in, but it was
(01:25):
a bit of a lag there.
So we had probably nine or 10months where we were more of a
long distance relationship, moreof that boyfriend friend type
relationship role.
And then when you moved in, andI think that's when we started
to settle in.
And that's when the first thingwas this relationship advice.
(01:45):
And I do remember theconversation.
But more importantly, once I sawthat Randy could let me down, it
changed a lot of things.
One of the things that changedwas I started looking for more
evidence of him letting me down.
And of course, what you golooking for, you're going to
find.
And there were things like oncehe moved in, we weren't spending
(02:10):
every night, hours and hourstogether.
When we were long distance, we'dget on the phone for three or
four hours at night, have thesewonderful conversations.
All the connection that a heartcould ever want was there in
that long distance relationship.
SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
And then in true head fashion, like a good head
partner, my attention turned toall the other stuff.
It's what it does.
We just start paying attentionto all the other stuff in life.
And it's not that we don't loveour partner.
It's not that we don't thinkabout them.
(02:48):
It's just kind of how our brainworks.
When that part of our life seemsstable and good, we're idiots.
We're off paying attention toother stuff.
And we're not even...
aware of it.
Let me ask you a question,Beverly, because it probably
matters.
The parenting advice I gave you,was it terrible?
No.
(03:08):
So was it completely wrong?
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
No, not at all.
I would say you were probablyspot on.
It always helps to have anoutside opinion.
And I do value your parentingskills.
I value way that you look atthings so differently than I do,
that head perspective, seeing asI had been a single mom for 13
years, but prior to you and Igetting married, I can look back
(03:36):
now and see where this is whykids really do need two parents.
Unfortunately, my first husband,just for listeners, he and I
divorced in because of hisalcoholism, and then he died in
2019.
So he just was not able tofulfill his parenting duties.
SPEAKER_02 (03:57):
I just had to point out, I wanted to point out that
you can- You were right.
No, I was.
Okay.
Of course.
Good enough.
SPEAKER_01 (04:06):
Sure had.
I was
SPEAKER_02 (04:07):
right.
However, I want to point outthat- Was it worth it?
You can be right, and you shouldjust shut up.
Yeah.
And that's a tough thing forheads because we're always
trying to be right.
But being right is not alwayshelpful to your relationship.
SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Yeah, it took me probably three or four years to
realize that you were right.
You were going to let me downeventually.
We know that.
Oh, sure.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Sure.
That's especially me.
SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
I'm not singling you out.
I'm saying all people will hurtand let down others.
Other people.
SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
Okay, in the big picture, I understand that.
I was just saying, you know,you're not singling me out.
Are there others?
Do you have other husbands thatneed to be?
Wait a second.
No.
Single me out.
I should be the only one.
But no, I know what you'retalking about.
No, I'm saying I
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
have other people I care about that let me down.
You know, when this happened andthen it set me down a road of
looking for all the ways thatyou were letting me down.
And then that's what ended up inprobably a couple of months
later when Randy and I arehaving some discussion or talk.
(05:19):
And I end up with the famousline, you were a better
boyfriend.
SPEAKER_02 (05:24):
You were a better boyfriend.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
So hearts sometimes don't have that filter.
We're coming from an emotionaltrigger.
Sometimes.
It's not our best moment, butgreat podcast material, I'll
say.
SPEAKER_02 (05:41):
14 years later, 15 years later, it's funny.
You know, sometimes when you'regoing right through it, it's
not.
A lot of the things in yourrelationship that you argue and
fight about now will be thingsthat you will laugh about in 20
years, just so you know.
The
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
thing about you being a better boyfriend, if you
think about it during that sixto nine months before you moved
in, and that's really where thattransition happens in
relationships is once we becomeofficial, maybe we're moving in
together or getting married, andthat's when those roles begin to
(06:19):
change.
And what we always tell ourclients is that phase one of a
relationship, the dating phase,is that cocaine, drug-feeling,
endorphin-laden phase.
And so we're both two hearts andwe just have this amazing
relationship because neither ofus is using our frontal
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
lobe.
(07:02):
When you find your person andyou're just in the flow and
everything's wonderful, it seemsso great, then there's the
moment.
There's the moment where thatperson does something and we go,
oh my gosh, it's because theydon't love me or they don't care
about me or maybe I thought theyloved me more than they loved
me.
I don't know what all goes on ineverybody's heads.
(07:23):
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (07:23):
we think they're different.
Oh, this person will never letus down.
They've got my back.
We've made plans together,dreams together, and we are just
shocked when that comes around.
We shouldn't have
SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
plans together and the dreams together.
I think some of that is justbullshit that our head makes up.
It's not even that.
It's like we didn't disappointthe plans and dreams we had
together.
We disappointed the You know,the fantasy, we disappointed the
even the movie version of whatour relationship supposed to be
like.
And when suddenly we're not thatperson as the head partner, the
(08:01):
heart partners hurt.
And it leads to a lot of thesekind of inner resentments and
all of those things that theycan really build and develop
over time.
If you're not aware of thesemoments, if you don't catch
them, they just they do damage.
They do damage because theydamage.
us individually as our brainsits and tries to figure out
(08:24):
what the hell is wrong with usthat people can't love us or
what's wrong with us that wepicked the wrong partner there's
all kinds of messages that justkind of automatically run in our
head when we have theseexperiences and we're not wrong
it's just if we're not aware ofit and we're not talking about
it it doesn't resolve and itsits there and festers and
festers and festers and then outOut of our mouth comes the
(08:47):
thing, you were a betterboyfriend.
And I probably was a betterboyfriend.
See, there's truth.
Yeah, no, I was a betterboyfriend, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
I got flowers all the time and we would
communicate more and connectmore.
We cooked dinner every nighttogether.
There were so many wonderfulconnection points.
And then as Randy got back intohis career focus and the
relationship was going sosmoothly, he put his focus
toward other things.
(09:16):
And that's when I felt like heabandoned me.
He was just gone and somewhatrejected and something must be
wrong.
And I started putting on mydetective hat and looking for
where's the problem.
SPEAKER_02 (09:31):
Looking for where's the problem.
And that's really the challengebecause- there maybe wasn't a
problem.
SPEAKER_01 (09:38):
Okay, but even then I'm looking for the drug.
I'm looking for the cocaine.
SPEAKER_02 (09:42):
Yeah, we're looking for the high of the love because
it's awesome.
It's that connection.
It's that deep connection.
It's that feeling that we getthat makes us like it so much.
It's just that hearts love thefeeling so much and heads do
this thing where we think we'vegot to maintain that feeling in
all the areas of our life.
So we're kind of looking acrossit broadly going, okay, I need
(10:04):
my job to make me feel that way.
I need my friends to make mefeel that way.
I need to kick butt at my Myhobbies to make me feel that
way.
I need my partner to make mefeel that way.
That wonderful, good, I am doingwell feeling that we get when
we're good in the relationship.
When we're a good boyfriend, weget that feeling.
(10:24):
And that's kind of what ourfeeling is.
This is a feeling of success.
I don't think it's that headsare seeking love like hearts
are.
I think it's that heads areseeking that good feeling of,
yay, I made that person happy.
I made that person love.
I let them feel love.
(10:45):
I made them love me.
I love them.
I am successful as a person.
I have managed and found love.
SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
I guess where I wanted to discuss is so many
clients come in, so many hearts,and They're dragging in their
partner.
And the reason is they'relooking for that drug, that high
that we had in the beginning.
And everyone's trying torecreate that.
(11:14):
And I'm amazed at how much timeand effort and money couples
will spend, usually before theyget to us, because they've done
counseling or counseling.
some form of therapy forpotentially years, trying to
sort out all the problems sothat they can get back to that
(11:35):
bliss that they felt in thebeginning.
The problem is that you're notgoing to recreate that.
That is a dating thing and we'renot going to get that.
In fact, I was doing a littleresearch and What happens, I
think, with dating is at somelevel, let's face it, we're all
(11:57):
trying to win our partner'saffection or approval.
We're trying to impress them.
SPEAKER_02 (12:03):
Well, sure.
We're trying to, whether you gowith the biological of we're
trying to breed and continue thespecies, or we're trying to
impress them so we have a personand we have a relationship and
our mom and dad are happier.
There can be a million differentreasons for why we're trying to
impress that person.
And then comes the time we win.
(12:24):
We go, okay, I got the person,and now I don't have to do that
as much.
I don't have to– I don't have todo as much.
And it's not right.
And it's not the best way forrelationships.
But darn it, it is how we feeland experience it and what our
brain does to us when we're init.
So it's not that the headpartner is intentionally moving
(12:46):
away from the heart partner.
I don't think.
I never felt that way.
I never, ever, ever, ever feltlike I loved you less than
SPEAKER_01 (12:57):
No, you probably loved me more because we had
that constant...
stable relationship.
And so for the head, they'revery happy that we've reached
this place of, isn't this great,where everything was running so
smoothly, and we're so happy,and I'm free to focus on these
other parts of my life.
And the heart is sitting theregoing, no, no, no, no, no, no,
(13:20):
everything is not great.
This is a disaster.
And that is exactly what heartssay to me when they come in.
They say, we're about to breakup.
And the head is like, what?
SPEAKER_02 (13:32):
We're kind of oblivious to it because for us,
it's just a feel thateverything's going okay.
Life is right.
Oh, yay.
We got married.
We moved in together.
We're celebrating that.
And gosh, do I enjoy theevenings and getting to spend
time with you and not having thepressure of all the other stuff
that was going on.
(13:53):
And I need to turn my attentionto work because now I've taken
on a responsibility of thiswonderful woman that I love very
much and her kids and a house.
The brain starts thinking aboutall these things we have to do
because we're heads over herebeing doers.
There's all these things we haveto do and that gets in the way
(14:16):
and it messes us up.
Neither of us is right or wrong,but you darn well need to be
aware of it.
Because heads do need to do abetter job of making sure that
the connection is there, thatwe're maintaining that, that
we're taking care of that, thatwe are always, always, always,
always keeping our partner as apriority.
(14:38):
But it's going to wane.
It's going to fade.
You're going to be a betterboyfriend.
SPEAKER_01 (14:44):
One of the differences that we write about
in the couple's rulebook is thatthat heads have that more future
focus and hearts are very muchin the present.
Randy and I noticed that becauseRandy At one point, I had shared
a dream of living in a house onthe lake and being able to...
(15:05):
Ah, the
SPEAKER_02 (15:06):
lake house story.
SPEAKER_01 (15:10):
Being able to just hang out together.
Again, it's a veryconnection-ridden story because
that's what a heart talks aboutand dreams about.
SPEAKER_02 (15:16):
Love the lake house.
SPEAKER_01 (15:18):
And so once this dream...
is in Randy's head.
Then the weeks, months, andyears after, I look over and I'm
sitting in silence on the couch,bored, lonely, looking over,
asking Randy, what are youdoing?
What's on the computer that's sointeresting?
And he's like, I'm looking atlake houses so proudly.
(15:39):
And all I say to Bakht is, all Ican think of is, you know what,
there's not going to be a lakehouse because if you don't put
your computer down and look intomy eyes and spend some time with
me in the present, There will beno future.
SPEAKER_02 (15:52):
There is no lake house.
The interesting thing is a lakehouse never really my goal.
I'm not the water guy.
I don't need to be around thewater, see the water, hang out
in the water, play in the water,know that the water exists.
The guy that lives in Hawaii.
I've learned to be a water guy.
I learned to love the idea ofthe lake house from you.
(16:15):
Mm-hmm.
It's the idea of all of it, theidea of water.
You're the water girl.
And so I learned that.
And I took that dream and Iheaded it all up, you know,
bring it inside and go, okay,she wants this dream.
If I can fulfill her dream, I'mher guy.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Make a list.
SPEAKER_02 (16:35):
Right.
Make a list.
And that's what heads do.
We're making that list.
We're going, okay, I got to dothis.
I got to do this.
I got to do this.
And I got to buy a lake house.
Heads are doers.
It's what we think we'resupposed to do because we think
the doing makes our heartpartner happy.
And that's where we get itwrong.
It is the connection that makesthe heart partner happy.
Heads, you're doing it wrong.
You're working too hard.
(16:57):
We're working too hard on it.
We're doing all this stufftrying to make this person, our
heart partner, happy.
And we're doing it wrong.
We're putting all our energyinto the wrong stuff.
Stay with the connection.
Stay with the love.
Because that's what reallymatters in the long run anyways.
It's what you've got tomaintain.
(17:19):
Because when the two of you area team, you're going to achieve
the lake house.
You're going to achieve the goodparenting.
You're going to achieve all thethings you need to achieve.
You're going to have theopportunity to be right.
when you can make sure that yourpartner feels loved.
Because they're going to let yoube loved.
Hearts, if they feel loved,they'll let you be right all the
(17:39):
time.
So it's easier to even get thethings you want, the ego boosts
you want, the recognition, therespect, everything you want.
It's all right there for you,heads, if you can figure out,
how do I keep this love strong?
Because a heart is powered byit.
And when Beverly's happy, lifeis easy.
(18:01):
And the trick is it's not aboutdoing all this stuff, the list,
to keep her happy.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah.
In fact, okay, so time for ametaphor.
SPEAKER_02 (18:09):
She even pauses now when she drops metaphors.
She's like, okay, let me explainit this way, but I'll pause so
Randy can say somethingdifferent.
funny because my metaphorsare...
She wants me to say somethingkind of goofy, so it kind of
lightens your expectation as alistener of her metaphor.
But
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
anyways...
You always make fun of mymetaphors.
I just wait for it.
SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
Some of them are good.
SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
They're all good.
Okay.
So it's kind of like a garden.
So if you're out, you plantseeds, you're maybe growing
vegetables, flowers, whateverkind of garden you want.
Maybe it's just a spice garden.
UNKNOWN (18:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
And you go out, you invest all this time and energy,
put the seats down and waterthem and so forth.
But when somebody puts all ofthat interest and energy and
expense into planting the seedand so forth.
But then they get busy and theyforget to come out and tend to
the weeds or make sure that theplant is growing in the right
(19:14):
conditions.
Maybe it needs fertilizer, maybeit needs a little more water,
whatever that is.
If you just plant it and thenwalk away, it's possible that
those plants aren't going to dowell.
And I equate that to whathappens in dating is that We
find that our partner is someonethat's more curious and
(19:34):
interested in us, someone whoputs a lot of time and attention
into us.
And what happens inrelationships is when you put
your focus somewhere else, thenyou're no longer really
investing in our relationship.
And that's where I think theshift happens and things go bad.
(19:56):
I get it.
Plants, you can throw a seed inHawaii and it'll pretty much
grow no matter what.
SPEAKER_02 (20:01):
Well, it will also attract giant jeweled beetles
that lay larvae the size of yourthumb.
So, you know, there is that.
But anyways, I love the gardenmetaphor.
SPEAKER_01 (20:13):
So plants anywhere really do need time and
attention.
You wouldn't just set it andleave it and forget about it.
And that's how it feels to aheart.
This podcast can come across asbeing somewhat hard on heads,
and that is not my intent.
Heads and hearts make...
great relationships.
(20:34):
If I were to offer just a bit ofadvice, I would say once that
phase of dating is coming to aclose and now we're settling
into what is sustainable in therelationship.
I think each partner needs torecognize the shift is actually
very positive.
(20:55):
It does mean that yourrelationship is very stable.
We can't maintain that datinghigh that we talk about.
If we understand that therelationship isn't heading into
a disaster, it's just goingthrough a normal shift, I think
everybody will settle down abit.
(21:16):
The heart will stop being such adetective and won't be seeking
to fix this or to solve it.
Also, I think for heads, if youcan remember the garden idea,
that it's good if you cancontinue to invest in the
intimacy, the connection withyour partner and And just both
(21:38):
of you kind of working together,communicating, and knowing that
as the love is maturing, that itdoes need tending, but it can
also be something even moreamazing than what it was during
dating.
It doesn't have to be as boringas settling in, but it can be a
(22:00):
little bit of both.
And we'll talk about that in alater podcast.
SPEAKER_02 (22:06):
For hearts, recognize that it's not an
intentional thing.
It's not an on purpose thing.
You got to watch for the shift,recognize the shift when it
occurs, recognize when you seethat going on, because if you
can both recognize it, heads cando a better job of making sure
that they're taking care of thegarden, taking care of love,
taking care of the relationshipand maintaining that.
(22:27):
And hearts can be mindful thatit's not personal.
It's not personal.
I never, ever, ever moved awayfrom Beverly emotionally it just
felt that way and it was neverever ever anything I wanted her
to feel That's it for this weekon the podcast.
Talk about it amongstyourselves.
We look forward to talking toyou all very, very soon.
(22:50):
If you're new to Heart vs.
Head, go check out some of thepast episodes.
There's a ton of stuff.
Talk about these things withyour partner.
It will change everything.
Thanks, everybody.
We'll talk to you soon.
SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
And Randy,
SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
I love you.
I love you
SPEAKER_01 (23:06):
too,
SPEAKER_02 (23:06):
baby.
UNKNOWN (23:06):
I love you, too.
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
Thanks for listening to Heart vs.
Head.
You can learn more atheartandheadcoaching.com and
check out new podcast episodesevery Wednesday.
If you have a question for Randyand Beverly, send an email to
info atheartandheadcoaching.com.
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