February 21, 2025 • 54 mins
Leaving a toxic relationship is never as simple as it seems from the outside. In this episode of Her Time to Talk, producer Sydney—who is also a clinical intern at Her Time Therapy—shares her raw and deeply personal journey of navigating heartbreak, breaking free from harmful dynamics, and rebuilding her life.
She reflects on her seven-year relationship with a partner struggling with addiction, the emotional toll of trying to hold things together, and the painful process of walking away. Just when she thought she had escaped toxicity, she found herself in an even more dangerous relationship—one marked by manipulation, gaslighting, and escalating abuse. Through candid storytelling, Sydney describes the psychological traps that kept her stuck, the moment she realized she had to leave, and the support that helped her do it safely.
This episode explores:
- Why leaving a toxic relationship is so difficult, even when you know it’s unhealthy
- The emotional and social losses that make walking away feel impossible
- The insidious nature of gaslighting, control, and emotional abuse
- The power of therapy, community, and self-reflection in reclaiming your identity
- How healthy love can feel "boring" after years of chaos—and why that’s a good thing
Sydney’s story is not just about heartbreak—it’s about resilience, self-trust, and the radical act of choosing yourself. If you've ever questioned your worth in a relationship, struggled to leave, or wondered if healing is truly possible, this episode is for you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Meagan (00:28):
Hello, Sydney.
Thank you so much for joining usand coming on her time to talk.
We're really glad to have youwith us today.
Sydney (00:34):
I'm happy to be here.
Meagan (00:36):
Can you start by telling our listeners just a little bit
about yourself and who you areand what brings you here.
Sydney (00:41):
Sure.
So my name is Sydney, and I amcurrently getting my masters in
clinical mental healthcounseling and am also a
practicum Student at her time.
I also am doing the social mediaand helping produce this
podcast.
So I have a little bit of myhands and everything, but, I'm
an aspiring therapist andhopefully LPCC in the next year
(01:05):
or so here.
Meagan (01:06):
Yeah you definitely have your hands on a lot.
You have a lot on your plate anda lot of value that you bring to
us at her time.
And for those listening to thispodcast, Sydney is a huge force
behind getting this podcast offthe ground and to everything
that goes in behind the scenes.
Definitely have her to thank fora lot of it.
And you will be hearing from heroften.
So we're so glad to have you asa guest in this capacity where
(01:27):
we get to talk about a topicthat I think a lot of women are
Struggling with and that come tocounseling to deal with every
day.
And that is heartbreak andbreakups and how we deal with
negative relationships and healfrom them.
This is something that I thinkall women have their own story.
We've all been through a toughbreakup at some point in our
(01:48):
lives, or we will soon you'vebeen through it or you haven't
been through it yet.
But how we actually get past itis a whole other thing.
And that's what we're here totalk about today.
Before we dive too deeply intothat, I wanted to hear a little
bit from you on your journey ofbecoming a therapist.
I know this kind of informs ourtopic a bit.
So can you share a bit about whyyou wanted to become a therapist
(02:10):
in the first place?
Sydney (02:11):
So I've always had an interest in psychology and just
understanding why we are the waywe are why we think the way we
think and behave the way webehave.
And a lot of that has to do withmy upbringing in general.
I had a pretty tumultuous and insome ways traumatic childhood
that definitely, bled into a lotof the patterns that I have
(02:34):
within different relationshipsin my life especially romantic
ones.
And I've gone through two prettyintense breakups that, I've been
in therapy most of my life inand out for different reasons,
but acutely.
Through breakups, and I had abreakup with a partner of seven
years that I thought was goingto be my be all end all person.
(02:56):
And that's the first time Isought therapy in a while.
And I ended up with thewonderful therapist who is very
person centered very muchvalidating a lot of things that.
I had self doubt about and thatwas really big for me.
Through that first, long termbreakup, I was with an alcoholic
for a long time.
And as a healer, I found myselfin a position where I was just
(03:18):
trying to fix him.
And that, Obviously was notsuper healthy.
And I left that relationship.
And shortly thereafter, I gotvery quickly swept up into a
very intense narcissisticabusive relationship.
And I am incredibly grateful forthe support system that I had at
that time with my therapist,because I don't know that.
(03:41):
I would have seen the thingsthat I saw or been able to get
out of it so quickly because,there's a lot of women out there
who have found themselves inthese type of relationships
that, we're going to talk alittle bit more about that don't
get out.
Very quickly, maybe ever or theykeep going back and they might
have children with this personand I consider myself very lucky
(04:02):
to have only been there for ayear and a half and this
therapist kind of, selfdisclosed a little bit to me
that her journey to becoming atherapist came through a similar
relationship that she healedfrom with the help of a
therapist.
And That was the catalyst for mewhere I'd been thinking about it
for a really long time.
It was a huge career change frommy path working in film, media
(04:25):
and marketing production.
And that was just not reallyfulfilling to me.
I'm just the type of person thatneeds to have my heart in
whatever I do.
And for a long time, I've beenso full of gratitude for this
person who really helped me andI'm ready to give back.
Meagan (04:43):
Sydney.
It sounds like you really have alot of experience healing from
heartbreak and you're in goodcompany with a lot of other
therapists who come to thisprofession because they've been
through something reallyemotional.
And now that they're on theother side of it, they want to
reach out their hand and helpothers that are in the middle of
it.
From personal experience andwith the experience of a lot of
women in my life and clients aswell, I know that the first
(05:06):
really serious relationship orthe first really big heartbreak
is one that tends to stick withyou.
So I'm curious if you could tellus a little bit more about the
story of that first relationshipthat you, looking back now, see
it as more of that toxicrelationship that wasn't good to
move forward with in your lifeand what brought you to
understand this relationshipthat maybe started good is
(05:26):
actually not a good thing inyour life.
Sydney (05:29):
To understand how I ended up in that relationship,
some context is helpful.
I've always been what peoplecall boy crazy growing up.
I often felt disconnected andunfulfilled at home.
I think that made me seekvalidation through relationships
from a young age.
I had a lot of heartbreak as ateenager and I often found
(05:49):
myself in toxic dynamics, stuckin a victim role.
My first love was in highschool, and we carried a
dysfunctional on again, offagain relationship into college.
I was very anxiously attachedback then, constantly
questioning myself and my worth.
When I was 20, I met this guy atmy first ever music festival,
(06:10):
which was an incrediblyimpactful experience for me in
and of itself.
He was different from anyone I'dknown.
He was a small town guy fromrural PA, blue collar, with a
tough, carefree persona thatintrigued me.
At first it was casual and longdistance, but then he visited me
in New Zealand while I wasstudying abroad, and we went on
(06:33):
this spontaneous camper van tripwhere we totally fell in love.
It was very much like a movie.
But even early on, there werered flags.
He cheated a couple of times.
I noticed how much he drank,though I brushed it off as
typical college behavior.
After graduation, we ended upmoving in together, partly out
(06:53):
of convenience after a long timeof being long distance, and then
for financial reasons as well.
That's when I really saw it.
I'd come home from work to findhim passed out on the couch,
beers and plastic liquor bottleshidden around the apartment,
where he'd just disappear forhours, unreachable and
intoxicated.
I didn't recognize it asalcoholism at the time,
(07:16):
especially because I was soyoung and It was very normalized
by college drinking culture.
I just thought, if I loved himenough and I helped him enough,
maybe he would change.
So I poured all myself into therelationship, putting him on a
pedestal and seeing him throughrose colored glasses.
Despite his drinking andcheating, I overlooked his
(07:38):
emotional unavailability and hisinability to see past himself.
I ignored my own needs and mademy life.
all about fixing his.
I had a demanding job in NewYork City but my emotional
energy went into monitoring hisdrinking and trying to hold
things together.
We eventually moved to Colorado,and the problems followed us.
(08:00):
I became deeply depressed, Ifelt very isolated, and I ended
up losing my sense of self.
The first time we broke up wasexcruciating.
I struggled with guilt overabandoning him, but also with
immense frustration that henever showed up for me.
I mean, seven years of datingand despite me expressing how
(08:22):
important a birthday card was tome.
I never got one.
We broke up after a year, butwhen COVID hit, loneliness ended
up leading us back together.
I told myself that maybe thistime would be different, but of
course it wasn't.
He cheated again, and this timeit was with somebody I thought
was a friend.
(08:42):
The anxiety, the constanthypervigilance, wondering where
he was, what he was doing, if hewas okay, became unbearable.
I finally confronted him and thetruth unraveled.
The cheating, the drinking, allof it.
I even helped stage anintervention with his family to
get him into treatment, despitebeing heartbroken at the time.
(09:04):
Here's the hard truth.
You can't love someone intosobriety.
They have to want to makechanges for themselves.
I saw his potential, but hecouldn't see it in himself.
The darkness that consumed himstarted pulling me under, too.
Looking back, I can see how hisavoidance patterns triggered my
anxiety patterns, perpetuatingtoxicity for both of us.
(09:27):
The more I pulled him closer,the more he pushed me away.
I struggled with intense anxietyand bouts of depression
throughout the relationship andhe judged me and resented me for
it.
Leaving the second time wasstill painful, but slightly
easier, partly because I haddone it once before, and partly
because I finally realized Ideserved better.
Therapy definitely helped me getthere.
(09:49):
I want to make sure I'm notgoing on the record saying that
I didn't play a part in ourdynamic struggles because I most
certainly did.
I still had yet to understand myown defense mechanisms and
protection strategies that weredeeply ingrained from childhood
trauma.
Being able to decode andconfront those in therapy has
been a huge part of my healingprocess, and it's something I
(10:09):
constantly work on to show upbetter in my current
relationships.
That relationship taught me someof my hardest, most valuable
lessons.
I learned how easy it is to loseyourself when you're trying to
save someone else, and I learnedthat sometimes the most loving
thing you can do for someone youcare about is to walk away and
let them face their own healingjourney alone.
Meagan (10:30):
Yeah, that's a really powerful relationship and
experience that it sounds likeit went over several years.
Sydney (10:37):
Seven years.
Meagan (10:38):
So this is a really Significant amount of time,
especially as a young adult,seven years is like forever,
your whole 20s is dedicated,spent to this person that, when
we're looking back and we'reseeing and identifying all these
patterns.
All these things that went wrongand why it was overall a pretty
toxic sounding relationship.
But when you're in it, in thoseseven years, those toxic moments
(11:01):
are not happening every moment.
There's a lot of moments of goodsprinkled in between that I
think for a lot of women kind ofact like the slot machine type
of thing where you keep puttingin another coin because there's
that hope that something goodhappens.
And it does every, week, everyother day, there's something
good that happens.
But then there's also somethingbad.
So it's this conditioning thatwe're remaining hopeful and it
(11:24):
keeps you stuck.
And it keeps you from seeing thebig picture that you're now
looking back and seeing itthrough.
I also am curious to hear fromyou because now you've done so
much healing, you're separatedfrom this relationship and
you're looking back at the bigpicture, but from what you
recall when you were in it, Whatwere some of the things that
came up for you that kept you init?
What were you telling yourself?
(11:44):
What were your thought patternsthat kept you there?
I think part of it was, I justidolized him as this wise, kind,
and deeply intellectual person.
Because I saw him, like I said,with rose colored glasses.
And I felt like I don't know ifthere was like a power struggle
and I like looked up to him Hewas also older than me And I
(12:07):
thought he had figured somethingout that I hadn't.
I think a big one though was thesocial Situation that we were in
our network was so intertwined,especially after the cross
country move, you know whenyou're with someone for that
long and I hate to say that thisis one of the reasons but it
definitely was Something toconsider.
(12:28):
Cause my best girlfriends fromcollege at the time were dating
guys and all of us were a littlesocial group together.
And there was a lot ofconsideration there of how would
it affect other parts of mylife.
So I think that also, Putanother set of glasses over me
where I'm like, okay breaking upwith this person is also going
(12:48):
to really challenge all of thesesituations.
We we're also living together,and adopted a dog together.
You get close to each other'sfamilies over that period of
time.
You justify your positioningwhere it's just like tunnel
vision of this is my person.
I just have to figure out.
How to fix this, and how can Ifix him, and how can I fix me,
(13:11):
and what do we do together, andhow can I get him to therapy?
Meagan (2) (13:15):
yeah, it's like I've committed so much time and
effort into this person, thisrelationship.
If I just do a little more, thenit'll all work out.
So I'm also hearing thiselement, too, of all the
secondary grief that would comefrom the main loss of this
relationship is one of the bigthings that kept you here.
And this is maybe some griefcounseling lingo of secondary
(13:35):
losses, but, what I'mhighlighting by saying that is
that, okay, you could probablysee, even when you were in it
and things were very cloudy andhard to see that, okay, this
person is hurting me and this isnot a super great relationship.
And I might not want to goforward with my life looking
just like it is right now.
But if I think of getting rid ofthis relationship and this
(13:56):
person, it means the loss of ourfriend group of the lifestyle we
created with the dog we adopted.
I'll lose contact with hisfamily.
I'll lose contact with this.
that I know it as of right now.
So it's very easy, I think, forpeople to look on other's
relationships and judge and sayobviously he was an alcoholic,
obviously he cheated on you andyou're going through all this
(14:18):
betrayal trauma and you're hurtby this.
Like, why would you stay in arelationship that's hurting you?
And it's not just about therelationship.
It's so much more complicatedthan that, and it's a question
of, am I willing to deal withthe grief of ending this
relationship and all the othersthat stem from it, all the
secondary losses and whensomeone who's already hurt looks
(14:41):
at that level of compoundinggrief, it can be really
paralyzing.
Sydney (14:47):
Yeah, I found myself very stuck.
I just felt stuck in every way.
And, that type of depressionwhere you're just staring at the
wall like, I don't know what todo, but it's not this.
But I don't have it in me totake action or it just feels so
daunting.
And another.
I did have to make a lot of hardchoices.
I did have to cut out.
(15:08):
Friends of mine actually had tocut out a best friend because
she had Stayed friends with himand I just couldn't I couldn't
be around it.
I needed the temptation to begone.
I needed the reminders to begone And that was the deepest
grief.
I think I had ever felt up untilthis point in my life, and it
(15:29):
was very overwhelming at timesand like having to physically
move out of the space and nottalk to them every day or at
all.
It was definitely really hard.
One of the things I love I thinkmy therapist at the time told me
this about grief and it was oneof my favorite analogies that
anybody's ever told me.
So the idea is that you've got abox and inside the box is a
(15:52):
ball.
And when you move the ballaround, if it hits a button on
the side of the box you'reexperiencing this grief.
And basically the ball startsout really big.
Therefore, it's constantlyhitting a side of the box and
it's hitting those pain points.
But as time goes on, the ballgets smaller.
(16:13):
It hits the pain points and itfeels just as painful, but it
doesn't happen quite as often.
That analogy really resonatedand stuck with me and helped me
take things day by day.
Meagan (16:24):
Yeah, to just keep going through it and wait and see the
ball getting smaller.
Sydney (16:28):
Yeah.
Meagan (16:29):
Yeah.
And the thing about grief too isI don't think in a lot of ways
the ball ever completely goesaway, but it does shrink down to
the size of a pebble and apebble hitting the side of the
box and hitting that button is awhole lot different than the
basketball hitting it everyother minute.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a really good analogy to just help
someone who maybe is in thisspot who feels like this is not
(16:50):
the life I want to be living,but if I make this monumental
decision and do what feels likeblowing up my life, I'm going to
be dealing with a massive amountof grief and loss, and I don't
know if I can handle it.
It's a good metaphor to hang onand make that big, bold choice,
because we got to trust that atsome point.
Almost the only thing we canrely on is change that
(17:11):
eventually that bad feeling goesaway.
It comes down.
It changes.
No one stays in that forever,even though it feels like it
when you're in it at the worstpart.
Sydney (17:21):
Yeah, for sure.
It's important to note thathealing is not always linear.
We do not always have thebenefit of time before the
universe provides us withanother learning opportunity.
Unfortunately, in my case,Healing from that relationship
Put me very quickly into anotherone.
And unfortunately this personwas a narcissist and very
(17:46):
abusive and he preyed on myempathy and also my position at
the time where I was feeling sosad and so hopeless about this
relationship.
And he listened to all thethings that I was upset about.
And he was eating it up and hejust came in and swept me off my
(18:07):
feet.
Gave me all the things that Ihad ever wanted.
Grandiose gestures, vacationstotally giving me all of his
time and support.
So I never really had thathealthy healing period after
that relationship.
It was just right.
Into this one.
And unfortunately narcissistsreally look for people in these
(18:30):
vulnerable positions and usethem as targets for supply.
Meagan (18:36):
You're right in the sense that what narcissists will
Identify a target and come inand just be prince charming,
sweeping in and doing everythingright.
And it's such a strongcomparison to the vulnerable
relationship you just got outof.
Or, it didn't have to be arelationship.
It could be a bad familysituation or Someone coming out
(18:58):
of their own struggle, like outof eating disorder treatment or
something like that, thesenarcissists will come in and
just somehow be exactly what youneed to make it seem oh my gosh,
I found the holy grail ofrelationships here.
And this is so wonderful.
And that's how they sneak in.
And it doesn't last that long.
(19:18):
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But as we're starting to talkabout this, I think we have to
acknowledge to that we hear thisterm all the time.
A lot of people come into hertime and you'll see it all over
social media that.
Anyone who has had a bad breakupor feels like their partner has
been selfish, oh, they're anarcissist.
A narcissist is a term that isvery popularized and it's thrown
(19:42):
around a lot in a way that isnot really accurate.
We're going to pause here and goover the actual diagnostic
criteria for.
Narcissistic personalitydisorder for those out there
that feel like they see thisterm a lot and maybe you're
using it a lot, but you're not100 percent sure of what that
clinically means.
So the first description of thisis that a narcissist has a
(20:04):
pervasive pattern ofgrandiosity.
So either in fantasy or inactual behavior.
They have a need for admiration.
They have a total lack ofempathy.
And this tends to begin earlierin adulthood and it presents in
a lot of contexts.
So this feeling of Grander andthis need for admiration.
It's not just in one domain,like it's not just in their
(20:27):
professional career.
This is a pattern that ispresent all throughout multiple
different contexts of life.
Okay.
So for someone to come intotherapy and actually be
diagnosed with narcissisticpersonality disorder, they have
to meet five or more of thefollowing criteria.
So the first is that the personhas a really grandiose sense of
(20:48):
self importance.
So they really over exaggerateachievements and their talents.
They expect to be recognized asthe best.
They are superior in all thingsand all achievements that they
boast about themselves.
Number two is that they'rereally preoccupied with
fantasies of unlimited success.
power, brilliance, beauty orideal love.
(21:11):
So they really believe that theyare or will achieve this
unlimited level of success indifferent categories.
Number three, they tend tobelieve that they are special
and unique and can only beunderstood by or associate with
other really special, other highstatus people or sometimes
institutions.
(21:31):
Number four, they requireexcessive admiration.
So these people tend to get inarguments with people who are
not constantly agreeing withthis level of superiority that
they feel about themselves.
Number five, they may have asense of entitlement.
So this can look like reallyunreasonable expectations.
(21:53):
Of treatment, or they reallyexpect a lot of compliments to
just be automatically given tothem.
So this sense of entitlement isoften partnered with this really
unreasonable sense of I deserveall of these things.
And if these things aren'tautomatically given to me, then
clearly, everything else andeveryone else is wrong and are
in misalignment with what theysee about themselves in the
(22:13):
world.
Number six they areinterpersonally exploitative.
So it's very easy and almostlike second nature for them to
take advantage of others inorder to achieve their own ends.
Because after all, from theirperspective, they are the
special one.
They are the unique one, andeverything is owed to them.
So it's very easy for them toseek whatever they can take from
(22:36):
others.
And it just feels naturalbecause why wouldn't they be
deserving of everything fromyou?
And this ties really well intonumber seven, which is they have
a general kind of lack ofempathy.
This might not reach likesociopathic or psychopathic
levels, but they have a markedReduction and the empathy that
you would expect.
(22:56):
So Sydney was just mentioninglike she didn't receive a
birthday card for seven years tomost of us that feels really
sad, right?
That has an impact.
And yet to this person that shemay have been with, there's that
marked lack of empathy whereit's I'm just not focused on
anyone else because of courseit's about me.
I'm the one who deserves thosethings, and it's unreasonable
for others to expect thatbecause I'm the superior one.
(23:19):
And number eight they often areenvious of others or believe
others are very envious of them.
So there's this discussion of ofcourse they want to be like me.
Everyone wants to be like thishigh status in this particular
area.
And along with that number nine,they are arrogant.
They show a lot of kind ofarrogant, haughty behaviors or
(23:42):
attitudes especially towardsothers or in the behaviors or
content that they put out intothe world.
Maybe people fit one or two ofthese pretty often, maybe even
three or four if they tend to bea little more on the selfish
side and just not super greattype of person.
However, to really truly beclinically defined as a
(24:02):
narcissist, we have to hit fiveor more of these criteria on a
consistent basis across multipledomains of life.
Thanks for hearing the littlepause as we go over the
diagnostic criteria therebecause I think it's going to
tie in a lot as we continue tohear Sydney's story here.
So Sydney, as I was going overthose, what jumped out to you?
Sydney (24:21):
It's just funny to read them again because It wasn't
something that I was familiarwith at the time, and I knew
people threw the term around waytoo often, and I never thought
about it in the actualdiagnosable way.
But yeah, I just laugh when Ilook at it now, because I'm
like, yep.
(24:42):
Yep.
Checks off, checks out.
it's easy to take this checklistand still try to apply it to
people, I think, with a biasedlens.
But And I think, something thatreally helped me more so than
(25:12):
just reading like the actualtendencies that are in the DSM
was I read this book calledBecoming a Narcissist Nightmare.
And there's a lot of accounts inthat book of women that have
been in these types ofrelationships.
And they have their ownchecklists of behaviors within
relationships specifically.
(25:32):
And to me, that was the most eyeopening moment.
I was like, Oh my God, this ismy exact experience.
You could have made a blueprintfor it.
And that's really scary.
(26:02):
It's clear once you'veexperienced it, who these people
are.
And once you see it, you can'tunsee it.
Meagan (26:09):
Oh, yeah.
I bet when you're in it andyou're looking back with this
hindsight as well it becomesreally clear.
And since you mentioned theother book that you felt was
really helpful to you, I want togive a quick plug for a book
called Insight is 2020.
And this was written by actuallya Denver therapist Shelly.
Pumphrey, she used to have apractice here, and I think she
(26:29):
still does.
But this is a really fantasticbook that goes through
narcissistic abuse and how totrust yourself and protect
yourself from narcissistic abuseand other type of toxic
relationship patterns.
And it's really aptly namedbecause it is about, like, when
you look back on theserelationships.
It's like you have 20 20 vision,but you certainly do not when
(26:50):
you are in it, so it's reallyhelpful to have these resources
that help you while you're inthe moment and you're starting
to question, is this really asbad as I think it is?
And usually it is, andunfortunately it is, and that
way you're one step closer togetting help.
But with your story, Sydney, Ithink we left off on, you had
gotten out of this badrelationship and really quickly
(27:12):
got into another that in thebeginning seemed so great.
There is like these grandiosegestures and a lot of love
bombing type of behavior thatprobably felt really good at the
time.
So what was it that took youfrom that beginning honeymoon
phase into now I'm starting toquestion is this relationship
really as great as it seemed tobe?
So what happened there?
Sydney (27:34):
Yeah.
One, I just want to point out, Ihad been seeing a therapist the
entire time.
So I was able to process thingsas they were occurring with her.
And had I not, I don't think Iwould have noticed.
As much as I did or as quicklyas I did, but slowly things
started getting weird.
(27:54):
Like I actually, I look back atmy journal and I remember the
first time he ever gaslit me andI had never experienced
gaslighting before or knew thatthere was a term for it, he did
something and then immediatelytried to tell me that's not what
happened.
And I was like, wait, what doyou mean?
Are we not experiencing the samereality right now?
(28:17):
And that happens a couple times.
And I was like, what?
Is this and at first you doubtyourself, you're like, am I
crazy?
Am I remembering thisincorrectly?
And I would say that Idefinitely have not the best
memory.
I think my ADHD plays into thata little bit and he definitely
(28:37):
prayed on that and he wouldconstantly convince me that
something that he said or didn'thappen.
And that's a really hard thingto talk to somebody about
because They're just basicallyquestioning your entire
experience.
And I didn't know what the wordswere for it at the time.
And I just was like, this feelsoff.
(28:59):
And then more behavior startedto feel off.
Like he would get.
Really angry.
He had some really serious angerproblems and it would be like on
the flip of a switch, he wouldjust start yelling and screaming
and punching things and throwingthings.
And I was just like, this is notright.
(29:19):
And there would just be thesevery vicious cycles of things
would be going really well andthen something would happen.
I don't know what to set him offand he would just go berserk and
I would be Very confused andthen immediately he'd go into
recovery mode where there'd belove bombing again And it was
always flowers and this or thator an apology and a handwritten
(29:41):
note and whatever and then I'dbe like, okay I Accept your
apology And then I would justfind myself in this constant
state of fear and anxiety Whereeggshells waiting for the other
shoe to drop And it's justwhat's going to set him off
next?
What's going to upset him?
What can I do to avoid himgetting upset?
(30:02):
And he would be looking forthings, finding things to be
jealous about from my previousrelationship I have a boyfriend
box that I keep some of mythings and it's tucked away in
my closet.
And he made me burn everythingand get rid of everything, and
he never gave me the time toheal from that seven year
relationship.
It was just immediately into usbeing hot and heavy, super fast.
(30:25):
Which is one of those thingsThat narcissists do is they pull
you in really close, reallyquick and then slowly titrate
you into their bad behaviors.
And like I said, the gaslightingwas one, the anger was another.
And then he was just really meansometimes.
Like he would say things todegrade my self esteem And then
(30:58):
he would walk away and it's Oh,I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
Or little things here and thereto insult my intelligence too.
Like I mentioned, I have ADHD,so sometimes I'm forgetful or
sometimes I, have problems withexecutive functioning.
He would refer to me as as hisspecial girl, like just like
little language that's subtlydemeaning and degrading.
(31:19):
And it just kept escalating.
He knew exactly what to do andsay to be manipulative.
And it then became let's work onthis relationship.
Let's go to therapy together.
I would tell all these storiesto my therapist and she did a
really good job of scaffoldingthe information and not
inserting what she thoughtbecause at the time it would
(31:42):
have been hard for me to hear.
Instead she asked me thisquestion over and over again.
She said, if everything stayedthe same and nothing changed,
Would you want to be in thisrelationship?
And the answer was always no,but, and I find some kind of
reason some kind of hope, somekind of breadcrumb somewhere.
(32:03):
And we talked a lot about flagsand so we do a lot.
She'd be like, okay, that's agreen flag.
That's a red flag.
That's a yellow flag.
And it got to a point where itwas red flag after major red
flag.
Another question that she oftenasked me was what.
Does this remind you of frompast relationships?
And I didn't see it at the time,but I definitely grew up with a
(32:25):
narcissist in my household.
And there were things that hedid and said and ways that he
made me feel that reminds me ofthe anxiety I experienced
growing up, where it was like,am I going to get the love
today?
Or am I going to be in shame andanxiety today?
Eventually it got so bad and itwould be in public too.
He would do terrible things tome in public, yell at me in
(32:48):
public, in front of my father,in front of other people.
it got to the point where otherpeople were noticing and they
were like, this is not okay.
And my best friend would ask meon a weekly basis.
When are you breaking up withhim?
And it was in my head.
I was like, okay, this isstarting to be not good.
But I had this anxiousattachment where I was not quite
(33:11):
ready to let it go.
And then it all came to a head.
One night we were at a concertand psychedelics were involved,
which means emotions were veryheavy.
And he just blew up at me.
He thought he saw my exboyfriend in the crowd.
and that totally set him offinto a spiral.
(33:46):
I've always had anxiety, butthis period of time was the
worst it had ever been.
And he capitalized on thatbecause he knew it.
And I was with a new friend thatis now one of my best friends
who in the moment.
We really didn't know eachother.
And she just was like, you don'tneed to put up with this.
(34:06):
You know that, right?
Meagan (34:08):
The power of another woman just stepping in to say
that and lend that hand.
Sydney (34:13):
Yeah, I have so much gratitude for her because that
was really the switch where Iwas just like, No, this is not
okay.
I was afraid to go home with himthat night.
At that point we had been livingtogether, which was insane
because that should have neverhappened, but he needed a place
and I let him.
(34:33):
But yeah, we went home thatnight.
He was absolutely crazy becauseI was put off by him and he was
really trying to have sex withme and I had said no repeatedly,
but he wouldn't take no for ananswer.
it was really bad and I lockedhim out of the room and he would
break into the room and I was soscared of him that I was peeing
(34:55):
in a water bottle in my bedroominstead of leaving the room
because he was crazy.
And I was texting all my familyand friends I, I'm scared I felt
like it was only a matter oftime before he was gonna hit me,
and that night I was like, thismight be it.
There were moments that I hadwith him that gave me flashbacks
(35:15):
to childhood abuse.
And I was like, I'm notexperiencing this ever again.
I will not be backed into acorner and my face be yelled at
and this is totally unacceptablebehavior.
So I got my stuff and I left inthe middle of the night after he
finally went to sleep and Inever looked back.
Meagan (35:37):
I'm so glad you were able to get yourself out of that
situation.
It really is terrifying and bythe time you reach that
situation, you already felt likeyou were at enough risk of harm
that you had to lock yourself ina room.
.Yeah.
And I think a lot of women findthemselves in that place or when
they've even gotten past thepoint where they've been hit or
(35:58):
worse.
And now it's the question of howdo I leave safely because it was
clear even in your situation,you didn't feel like you could
leave when you wanted to.
You had to wait for him to beasleep.
So this can escalate reallyquickly before we can even see
it happening when you're in it.
Yeah, totally.
Sydney (36:18):
And I'm glad that I had the wherewithal from doing the
self work and, the support,really the support that I had
was Monumental in helping me.
All my friends, came to my sideand a lot of men that were
actually, friends with him theysaw all of this and they were
(36:38):
like.
We don't excuse this behaviorand they completely cut him off
and cut him out.
Everybody was coming over to myhouse to check in.
One of my guy friends stayed atthe house while he was moving
out to make sure that he didn'tdo anything weird.
It was just, it was scary for awhile.
There were a couple of timeswhere he tried to reach out, I
(36:59):
blocked him on everything.
So he dropped off a letter at myhouse at a very opportune time
where he knew I was going to aconcert that was really
important to me that night.
Luckily I didn't see it, but hecame to my house and dropped off
this long letter.
And He did that another time,and I ended up not even reading
it that time, but he wasdefinitely trying to pull me
back in.
Meagan (37:20):
And that's a clear, example of that psychological
abuse, that he knew the timingof it, he wanted to hit you
emotionally on an important day.
Yeah, all sprinkled throughoutthis experience you've had, it's
increasing levels of emotionalabuse.
Psychological abuse with thegaslighting all the way
escalating up to a lot ofintimidation and right on that
(37:41):
bridge of physical abuse.
So it's often in these toxicdynamics.
It's not just Oh, they hit you.
And if they don't hit you,you're in a good relationship.
It's really not that simple.
It's multiple forms of abusethat is often utilized to get to
this point where, oh, man, nowit's bad.
Now it's really hard to leaveand I might not be safe to
(38:01):
leave.
But I'm so glad in your example.
It didn't get to the point whereyou were so isolated that you
didn't have someone to textwhile you were locked in that
room.
You didn't have someone that washelping support you while you
were moving out.
So keeping the support of yourtherapist, of your friends, of
your family, that's critical toyour safety and your ability to
get through.
(38:22):
A dynamic like this.
Sydney (38:23):
Absolutely.
And I consider myself very luckybecause I have women in my life
that have experienced way worseforms of narcissistic abuse that
all started very similarly.
But they didn't necessarily havethe support network that I do
or.
I, darkly joke about this, but Isometimes say he was just not as
(38:46):
good at his job as some othernarcissists are.
And I didn't marry him.
I didn't have kids with him.
All of those extra things thatreally make that much harder.
I think it helps also that.
The people that we surroundourselves with are really good
people.
And when these men saw thattheir friend was behaving this
(39:10):
way, they're like, Nope, I don'tcare.
Even things that like.
They kicked him off the softballteam, which I'm not involved
with that at all.
But they were like, we wantnothing to do with this person.
That's not the case for a lot ofpeople for a lot of people.
Narcissists could be reallystrong in their social networks.
They might be powerful orinfluential.
(39:31):
And they often are becausethey're really good at putting
on a mask and or they'rechameleons to their environment
and they pray off of otherpeople's examples and then
emulate them, even thoughthey're not sure how to be this
person.
They're not actually thisperson.
They're like a shell.
(40:24):
When it first ended, I didn'tunderstand a hundred percent
what the narcissist componentwas.
And It's funny because my dadreally early on, but send me
psychology today, articles aboutlove bombing I was like, okay,
yeah, that was probably whatthat was.
And then when I read that book,which sounds very similar to the
(40:45):
one you're talking about and Iread other women's accounts it
was so validating.
And I think validation was themost important part of healing
for me.
And that came, in the form ofbooks and my therapist and other
people in my social sphere.
I think that the hardest part islearning to trust yourself again
(41:07):
and not be riddled with selfanger or self doubt.
My first thought is how could Ilet this happen to me?
Am I that weak of a person thatI let somebody do this to me?
So building up that self worthagain, I think was the most
imperative point for me And Iwas able to do that through just
(41:30):
this intense I called it myincubation period where, I was
consistently in therapy, I wasjournaling a lot, meditating
regularly, going to yogachanging things in my space,
getting a new roommate who wasactually the girl who inspired
me to leave him and thatrelationship blossomed and
(41:52):
really was helpful in my healingas well.
And yeah, I went on some.
International trips where I dida lot of fun yoga, surfing type
things and self searching.
And eventually I was able tobuild that back up.
Healing from that was one of themost radical acts of self love
(42:13):
I've ever done for myself.
Meagan (42:15):
That's really powerful.
That takes so much work and timeto recognize the areas of
yourself that were broken downand the way that you're now
talking to yourself aboutyourself and learning how to
unravel that negative self talkand bring back a self concept
that is not so damaging.
Cause holding onto that kind oflets them win.
But I know I've had a lot ofclients that have come to
(42:38):
therapy and I think we've talkedabout this in the past too,
where oftentimes as people leavenegative relationships or they
go through a really hardbreakup, they go into this
belief that I call it like acocoon effect where they're
like, I just need to go intotherapy or do my eat, pray, love
thing for five years and thenI'll be all done with my healing
and I'll emerge this beautifulbutterfly that's able to date
(43:00):
and able to have it alltogether.
And that's not really how thisworks.
We can't heal entirely inisolation and outside of
relationships, right?
Because sure, we need to maybetake some distance and have some
time to grieve and build backthe relationship with ourselves.
But being willing to be inrelationship with friends and
(43:21):
family and eventually otherromantic partners can be really
healing too.
So I'm curious to hear aboutyour experience with finding
your next partner as part ofthis healing journey.
Sydney (43:31):
Yeah, I think That was a really big part of my healing
journey in a surprising way.
And you hit the nail on thehead.
Like I said, I called it mycocoon phase and I set a
timeline for myself.
I was like, all right, for sixmonths, I'm not going to date
anybody.
Which felt important to me,because I had jumped from
relationship to relationship.
And I was like, I need to takesome time to refigure out who I
(43:55):
am.
And what I want with my life andthen I will make myself open to
the universe if something shallcome my way.
I did do the online dating thingfor a little while just because
I was feeling lonely.
And I was like, okay, maybe I'mready, to meet someone casually.
And let's just practice thecasual thing.
(44:17):
And I ended up meeting somebodywho was like, Super lovely.
And we hit it off and we went ona bunch of dates together, spent
a lot of time together.
And the entire time we went intoit, like he had just gone
through a breakup.
I had just gone through my twobreakups in a row.
And we're both like, we're justgoing to casually date
intentionally, and we're notgoing to put any pressure on
(44:39):
anything And we did that for sixmonths.
And at a certain point my brainwas like, okay, maybe this is
too much.
Maybe we should stop this.
Like it feels like therelationship, but I don't want a
relationship with this person.
There's no way we would everwork.
He's too boring.
And I realized something veryimportant that my therapist told
(45:00):
me.
And that was that after this andafter all the relationships that
I've been through throughout mylife that had these patterns of
intensity and then depression,just like the up and down of the
nervous system meeting somebodywho was stable and emotionally
regulated and didn't tear up mynervous system seemed boring.
(45:21):
And.
I listened to that.
I would make excuses constantlyto her, to my friends, to my
parents nah, but he's not.
He's not it.
And they're like, you haven'ttold me a single thing yet.
That's bad.
I almost broke it off for asecond.
And then I reverted back aroundand listened to myself and
listened to my therapist and waslike, maybe I should just try
(45:43):
this.
And it ended up being one of thebest decisions I've ever made.
I am really.
Excited because I am now in oneof the most loving and genuinely
wonderful relationships I'veever been in in any type of
form, I have somebody that.
Is good for my nervous systemand I can feel that and I can
(46:06):
feel how different that is andhow actually that's how it
should be and it's not somethingI ever knew was even possible
just because of how manydamaging relationships I had in
my life and I didn't realize youcould just not fight all the
time.
Both of my last relationshipswere categorized by lots of
arguing, lots of fighting andincluding, my mom and stepdad
(46:27):
and I thought that was normal.
I thought that's what you dealtwith when you love somebody.
He is just so wonderful andcompassionate and empathetic.
And he shows up for me and allthe things that I thought I was
too much to ask for.
(46:49):
He's what do you mean?
Of course, I'll do this for you.
Of course, I'll be there for youthrough this.
Don't feel.
Guilty asking for support whenyou're anxious, stuff like that,
it's really beautiful.
And I think that's important forme to share with others who are
going through this, it is outthere and you deserve it, we all
deserve it.
(47:10):
And for me, that has been sohealing in so many ways, like
instead of focusing on all ofthe problems that I need to fix
in this person or therelationship, I have this
support person who's here as Inavigate my own life and my own
desires.
And I've been talking about.
Starting my therapy journey ingrad school for probably four
(47:32):
years and it wasn't until Ifinally could emotionally relax
and focus till I finally did it.
And so many things in my lifehave changed because I have
found this relationship thatgives me the freedom to be who I
am while also supporting me ineverything that I do.
Meagan (47:52):
Yeah, that's so powerful.
And honestly, it takes a lot ofbravery to get to this place to
try to heal and trust anotherperson again with your heart and
with being in that intimatevulnerable type of relationship.
It's really scary after you'vebeen burned so deeply two times
before.
It's really easy to just sayit's not worth it.
(48:15):
All men are too scary.
And even if there maybe is thishope of a couple out there that
are okay, it's just not worthgoing through it all.
Your story is a really goodexample that it's worth kind of
being brave and doing thehealing on your own.
But also as part of thathealing, being open to exploring
other relationships and meetingnew people and new partners.
(48:36):
I characterize it as one of themost powerful things.
I think all women, even if wehaven't been through this type
of really toxic relationship, weall need to unlearn the Disney
reality of relationships whereit's very dramatic and the
fireworks are going off and it'sPrince Charming swooping in and
there's this big element of therelationship coming into your
(48:58):
life, which feels exciting, butthat's actually a red flag,
right?
The faster it happens, the moredramatic it feels.
The bigger sensation of lovethat starts a relationship can
actually be a sign that it's notgood.
And as you said, some of thesafest, healthiest, most solid
relationships are the ones thatare going to feel boring at
(49:19):
times.
So maybe that's the thing to gofor.
Sydney (49:22):
Yeah, I was like, I'm so excited for my life to be more
boring.
My twenties were very chaoticand very dramatic.
And I've been so ready to justbe settled into my life and, on
this path.
And I think this relationshipwas part of it.
And healing from those other twowas.
(49:42):
A big part of it as well.
And it's something that I'mstill working on every day.
It doesn't just go away.
It's it's pervasive and fightingthe self doubt is still hard.
It's still something that I.
Sometimes seek validation for mypartner who has a lot of
patience with me with I thinkthe biggest thing is patience in
(50:03):
the healing process is patiencefor yourself and the people that
have patience for you or thepeople you want to keep around
because it's not easy.
And it's constant work and youhave to take the time to do it,
Meagan (50:18):
right?
As we're wrapping up here,Sydney, I have one more question
for you.
You mentioned at the beginningof your story as you went into
these two kind of bigrelationships that you had to
navigate through and heal from.
You mentioned that kind of allstarted off with you being boy
crazy as you were younger.
And We're not going to demonizewomen's sexuality, right?
(50:39):
Like that term in itself hasthat connotation of there's
something wrong with that whenreally that's what you're
supposed to be doing as youbecome a teenager.
Biologically, that's what'ssupposed to happen.
So we're not going to victimblame on that regard.
You looked at it like, okay, Istarted off as being a little
bit more boy crazy and becauseof my family situation, I had an
Anxious attachment style thatmaybe made you a bit more
(51:01):
vulnerable to these dynamics.
And as you're looking back onyour childhood and these
relationships and the goodrelationships that you're in
now, I'm curious, what is itthat you tell you about yourself
after having gone through all ofthis?
What is the belief in the selftalk that you practice now
because of all the work you'vedone to really see the big
(51:22):
picture?
Sydney (51:24):
The number one mantra I have is you are enough.
And that's something that Iwrote on my mirror the day after
I kicked the other guy out ofthe house and loving all parts
of yourself, including theshadow side, the things that we
don't necessarily like aboutourselves.
(51:44):
Loving myself wholly and givingmyself grace and patience.
Loving myself in general hasbeen a struggle for me
throughout my life and I thinkI've done a lot of inner child
work where I go back and havethese meditations where I'm
Hugging and loving my innerchild and I think that's been
(52:07):
Really helpful.
I've written letters to my innerchild because I think a lot of
these relational patternsstarted from a really young age
where
Some other mantras I have are
I felt abandoned,
Some other mantras I have are
so healing that abandonment wound.
(52:28):
I deserve healthy love.
This is an opportunity forgrowth.
I have amazing support.
I am strong.
I am resilient.
Resiliency was a big one for metoo.
Meagan (52:42):
That's a great list of mantras for other women that
find themselves in this place tostart with.
And working with the therapistto help developing that list of
this is how we talk to ourselvesas a form of resistance to what
they're wanting you to believeand the way that they're talking
down to you.
That can make the differencebetween being able to Get out
and change your life Thank youso much for sharing your story
(53:04):
today.
Sydney.
I think a lot of women are goingto relate to this and your story
is going to be really inspiringto them to make some different
choices.
Hello, Sydney.
Thank you so much for joining usand coming on her time to talk.
We're really glad to have youwith us today.
Sydney (00:34):
I'm happy to be here.
Meagan (00:36):
Can you start by telling our listeners just a little bit
about yourself and who you areand what brings you here.
Sydney (00:41):
Sure.
So my name is Sydney, and I amcurrently getting my masters in
clinical mental healthcounseling and am also a
practicum Student at her time.
I also am doing the social mediaand helping produce this
podcast.
So I have a little bit of myhands and everything, but, I'm
an aspiring therapist andhopefully LPCC in the next year
(01:05):
or so here.
Meagan (01:06):
Yeah you definitely have your hands on a lot.
You have a lot on your plate anda lot of value that you bring to
us at her time.
And for those listening to thispodcast, Sydney is a huge force
behind getting this podcast offthe ground and to everything
that goes in behind the scenes.
Definitely have her to thank fora lot of it.
And you will be hearing from heroften.
So we're so glad to have you asa guest in this capacity where
(01:27):
we get to talk about a topicthat I think a lot of women are
Struggling with and that come tocounseling to deal with every
day.
And that is heartbreak andbreakups and how we deal with
negative relationships and healfrom them.
This is something that I thinkall women have their own story.
We've all been through a toughbreakup at some point in our
(01:48):
lives, or we will soon you'vebeen through it or you haven't
been through it yet.
But how we actually get past itis a whole other thing.
And that's what we're here totalk about today.
Before we dive too deeply intothat, I wanted to hear a little
bit from you on your journey ofbecoming a therapist.
I know this kind of informs ourtopic a bit.
So can you share a bit about whyyou wanted to become a therapist
(02:10):
in the first place?
Sydney (02:11):
So I've always had an interest in psychology and just
understanding why we are the waywe are why we think the way we
think and behave the way webehave.
And a lot of that has to do withmy upbringing in general.
I had a pretty tumultuous and insome ways traumatic childhood
that definitely, bled into a lotof the patterns that I have
(02:34):
within different relationshipsin my life especially romantic
ones.
And I've gone through two prettyintense breakups that, I've been
in therapy most of my life inand out for different reasons,
but acutely.
Through breakups, and I had abreakup with a partner of seven
years that I thought was goingto be my be all end all person.
(02:56):
And that's the first time Isought therapy in a while.
And I ended up with thewonderful therapist who is very
person centered very muchvalidating a lot of things that.
I had self doubt about and thatwas really big for me.
Through that first, long termbreakup, I was with an alcoholic
for a long time.
And as a healer, I found myselfin a position where I was just
(03:18):
trying to fix him.
And that, Obviously was notsuper healthy.
And I left that relationship.
And shortly thereafter, I gotvery quickly swept up into a
very intense narcissisticabusive relationship.
And I am incredibly grateful forthe support system that I had at
that time with my therapist,because I don't know that.
(03:41):
I would have seen the thingsthat I saw or been able to get
out of it so quickly because,there's a lot of women out there
who have found themselves inthese type of relationships
that, we're going to talk alittle bit more about that don't
get out.
Very quickly, maybe ever or theykeep going back and they might
have children with this personand I consider myself very lucky
(04:02):
to have only been there for ayear and a half and this
therapist kind of, selfdisclosed a little bit to me
that her journey to becoming atherapist came through a similar
relationship that she healedfrom with the help of a
therapist.
And That was the catalyst for mewhere I'd been thinking about it
for a really long time.
It was a huge career change frommy path working in film, media
(04:25):
and marketing production.
And that was just not reallyfulfilling to me.
I'm just the type of person thatneeds to have my heart in
whatever I do.
And for a long time, I've beenso full of gratitude for this
person who really helped me andI'm ready to give back.
Meagan (04:43):
Sydney.
It sounds like you really have alot of experience healing from
heartbreak and you're in goodcompany with a lot of other
therapists who come to thisprofession because they've been
through something reallyemotional.
And now that they're on theother side of it, they want to
reach out their hand and helpothers that are in the middle of
it.
From personal experience andwith the experience of a lot of
women in my life and clients aswell, I know that the first
(05:06):
really serious relationship orthe first really big heartbreak
is one that tends to stick withyou.
So I'm curious if you could tellus a little bit more about the
story of that first relationshipthat you, looking back now, see
it as more of that toxicrelationship that wasn't good to
move forward with in your lifeand what brought you to
understand this relationshipthat maybe started good is
(05:26):
actually not a good thing inyour life.
Sydney (05:29):
To understand how I ended up in that relationship,
some context is helpful.
I've always been what peoplecall boy crazy growing up.
I often felt disconnected andunfulfilled at home.
I think that made me seekvalidation through relationships
from a young age.
I had a lot of heartbreak as ateenager and I often found
(05:49):
myself in toxic dynamics, stuckin a victim role.
My first love was in highschool, and we carried a
dysfunctional on again, offagain relationship into college.
I was very anxiously attachedback then, constantly
questioning myself and my worth.
When I was 20, I met this guy atmy first ever music festival,
(06:10):
which was an incrediblyimpactful experience for me in
and of itself.
He was different from anyone I'dknown.
He was a small town guy fromrural PA, blue collar, with a
tough, carefree persona thatintrigued me.
At first it was casual and longdistance, but then he visited me
in New Zealand while I wasstudying abroad, and we went on
(06:33):
this spontaneous camper van tripwhere we totally fell in love.
It was very much like a movie.
But even early on, there werered flags.
He cheated a couple of times.
I noticed how much he drank,though I brushed it off as
typical college behavior.
After graduation, we ended upmoving in together, partly out
(06:53):
of convenience after a long timeof being long distance, and then
for financial reasons as well.
That's when I really saw it.
I'd come home from work to findhim passed out on the couch,
beers and plastic liquor bottleshidden around the apartment,
where he'd just disappear forhours, unreachable and
intoxicated.
I didn't recognize it asalcoholism at the time,
(07:16):
especially because I was soyoung and It was very normalized
by college drinking culture.
I just thought, if I loved himenough and I helped him enough,
maybe he would change.
So I poured all myself into therelationship, putting him on a
pedestal and seeing him throughrose colored glasses.
Despite his drinking andcheating, I overlooked his
(07:38):
emotional unavailability and hisinability to see past himself.
I ignored my own needs and mademy life.
all about fixing his.
I had a demanding job in NewYork City but my emotional
energy went into monitoring hisdrinking and trying to hold
things together.
We eventually moved to Colorado,and the problems followed us.
(08:00):
I became deeply depressed, Ifelt very isolated, and I ended
up losing my sense of self.
The first time we broke up wasexcruciating.
I struggled with guilt overabandoning him, but also with
immense frustration that henever showed up for me.
I mean, seven years of datingand despite me expressing how
(08:22):
important a birthday card was tome.
I never got one.
We broke up after a year, butwhen COVID hit, loneliness ended
up leading us back together.
I told myself that maybe thistime would be different, but of
course it wasn't.
He cheated again, and this timeit was with somebody I thought
was a friend.
(08:42):
The anxiety, the constanthypervigilance, wondering where
he was, what he was doing, if hewas okay, became unbearable.
I finally confronted him and thetruth unraveled.
The cheating, the drinking, allof it.
I even helped stage anintervention with his family to
get him into treatment, despitebeing heartbroken at the time.
(09:04):
Here's the hard truth.
You can't love someone intosobriety.
They have to want to makechanges for themselves.
I saw his potential, but hecouldn't see it in himself.
The darkness that consumed himstarted pulling me under, too.
Looking back, I can see how hisavoidance patterns triggered my
anxiety patterns, perpetuatingtoxicity for both of us.
(09:27):
The more I pulled him closer,the more he pushed me away.
I struggled with intense anxietyand bouts of depression
throughout the relationship andhe judged me and resented me for
it.
Leaving the second time wasstill painful, but slightly
easier, partly because I haddone it once before, and partly
because I finally realized Ideserved better.
Therapy definitely helped me getthere.
(09:49):
I want to make sure I'm notgoing on the record saying that
I didn't play a part in ourdynamic struggles because I most
certainly did.
I still had yet to understand myown defense mechanisms and
protection strategies that weredeeply ingrained from childhood
trauma.
Being able to decode andconfront those in therapy has
been a huge part of my healingprocess, and it's something I
(10:09):
constantly work on to show upbetter in my current
relationships.
That relationship taught me someof my hardest, most valuable
lessons.
I learned how easy it is to loseyourself when you're trying to
save someone else, and I learnedthat sometimes the most loving
thing you can do for someone youcare about is to walk away and
let them face their own healingjourney alone.
Meagan (10:30):
Yeah, that's a really powerful relationship and
experience that it sounds likeit went over several years.
Sydney (10:37):
Seven years.
Meagan (10:38):
So this is a really Significant amount of time,
especially as a young adult,seven years is like forever,
your whole 20s is dedicated,spent to this person that, when
we're looking back and we'reseeing and identifying all these
patterns.
All these things that went wrongand why it was overall a pretty
toxic sounding relationship.
But when you're in it, in thoseseven years, those toxic moments
(11:01):
are not happening every moment.
There's a lot of moments of goodsprinkled in between that I
think for a lot of women kind ofact like the slot machine type
of thing where you keep puttingin another coin because there's
that hope that something goodhappens.
And it does every, week, everyother day, there's something
good that happens.
But then there's also somethingbad.
So it's this conditioning thatwe're remaining hopeful and it
(11:24):
keeps you stuck.
And it keeps you from seeing thebig picture that you're now
looking back and seeing itthrough.
I also am curious to hear fromyou because now you've done so
much healing, you're separatedfrom this relationship and
you're looking back at the bigpicture, but from what you
recall when you were in it, Whatwere some of the things that
came up for you that kept you init?
What were you telling yourself?
(11:44):
What were your thought patternsthat kept you there?
I think part of it was, I justidolized him as this wise, kind,
and deeply intellectual person.
Because I saw him, like I said,with rose colored glasses.
And I felt like I don't know ifthere was like a power struggle
and I like looked up to him Hewas also older than me And I
(12:07):
thought he had figured somethingout that I hadn't.
I think a big one though was thesocial Situation that we were in
our network was so intertwined,especially after the cross
country move, you know whenyou're with someone for that
long and I hate to say that thisis one of the reasons but it
definitely was Something toconsider.
(12:28):
Cause my best girlfriends fromcollege at the time were dating
guys and all of us were a littlesocial group together.
And there was a lot ofconsideration there of how would
it affect other parts of mylife.
So I think that also, Putanother set of glasses over me
where I'm like, okay breaking upwith this person is also going
(12:48):
to really challenge all of thesesituations.
We we're also living together,and adopted a dog together.
You get close to each other'sfamilies over that period of
time.
You justify your positioningwhere it's just like tunnel
vision of this is my person.
I just have to figure out.
How to fix this, and how can Ifix him, and how can I fix me,
(13:11):
and what do we do together, andhow can I get him to therapy?
Meagan (2) (13:15):
yeah, it's like I've committed so much time and
effort into this person, thisrelationship.
If I just do a little more, thenit'll all work out.
So I'm also hearing thiselement, too, of all the
secondary grief that would comefrom the main loss of this
relationship is one of the bigthings that kept you here.
And this is maybe some griefcounseling lingo of secondary
(13:35):
losses, but, what I'mhighlighting by saying that is
that, okay, you could probablysee, even when you were in it
and things were very cloudy andhard to see that, okay, this
person is hurting me and this isnot a super great relationship.
And I might not want to goforward with my life looking
just like it is right now.
But if I think of getting rid ofthis relationship and this
(13:56):
person, it means the loss of ourfriend group of the lifestyle we
created with the dog we adopted.
I'll lose contact with hisfamily.
I'll lose contact with this.
that I know it as of right now.
So it's very easy, I think, forpeople to look on other's
relationships and judge and sayobviously he was an alcoholic,
obviously he cheated on you andyou're going through all this
(14:18):
betrayal trauma and you're hurtby this.
Like, why would you stay in arelationship that's hurting you?
And it's not just about therelationship.
It's so much more complicatedthan that, and it's a question
of, am I willing to deal withthe grief of ending this
relationship and all the othersthat stem from it, all the
secondary losses and whensomeone who's already hurt looks
(14:41):
at that level of compoundinggrief, it can be really
paralyzing.
Sydney (14:47):
Yeah, I found myself very stuck.
I just felt stuck in every way.
And, that type of depressionwhere you're just staring at the
wall like, I don't know what todo, but it's not this.
But I don't have it in me totake action or it just feels so
daunting.
And another.
I did have to make a lot of hardchoices.
I did have to cut out.
(15:08):
Friends of mine actually had tocut out a best friend because
she had Stayed friends with himand I just couldn't I couldn't
be around it.
I needed the temptation to begone.
I needed the reminders to begone And that was the deepest
grief.
I think I had ever felt up untilthis point in my life, and it
(15:29):
was very overwhelming at timesand like having to physically
move out of the space and nottalk to them every day or at
all.
It was definitely really hard.
One of the things I love I thinkmy therapist at the time told me
this about grief and it was oneof my favorite analogies that
anybody's ever told me.
So the idea is that you've got abox and inside the box is a
(15:52):
ball.
And when you move the ballaround, if it hits a button on
the side of the box you'reexperiencing this grief.
And basically the ball startsout really big.
Therefore, it's constantlyhitting a side of the box and
it's hitting those pain points.
But as time goes on, the ballgets smaller.
(16:13):
It hits the pain points and itfeels just as painful, but it
doesn't happen quite as often.
That analogy really resonatedand stuck with me and helped me
take things day by day.
Meagan (16:24):
Yeah, to just keep going through it and wait and see the
ball getting smaller.
Sydney (16:28):
Yeah.
Meagan (16:29):
Yeah.
And the thing about grief too isI don't think in a lot of ways
the ball ever completely goesaway, but it does shrink down to
the size of a pebble and apebble hitting the side of the
box and hitting that button is awhole lot different than the
basketball hitting it everyother minute.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a really good analogy to just help
someone who maybe is in thisspot who feels like this is not
(16:50):
the life I want to be living,but if I make this monumental
decision and do what feels likeblowing up my life, I'm going to
be dealing with a massive amountof grief and loss, and I don't
know if I can handle it.
It's a good metaphor to hang onand make that big, bold choice,
because we got to trust that atsome point.
Almost the only thing we canrely on is change that
(17:11):
eventually that bad feeling goesaway.
It comes down.
It changes.
No one stays in that forever,even though it feels like it
when you're in it at the worstpart.
Sydney (17:21):
Yeah, for sure.
It's important to note thathealing is not always linear.
We do not always have thebenefit of time before the
universe provides us withanother learning opportunity.
Unfortunately, in my case,Healing from that relationship
Put me very quickly into anotherone.
And unfortunately this personwas a narcissist and very
(17:46):
abusive and he preyed on myempathy and also my position at
the time where I was feeling sosad and so hopeless about this
relationship.
And he listened to all thethings that I was upset about.
And he was eating it up and hejust came in and swept me off my
(18:07):
feet.
Gave me all the things that Ihad ever wanted.
Grandiose gestures, vacationstotally giving me all of his
time and support.
So I never really had thathealthy healing period after
that relationship.
It was just right.
Into this one.
And unfortunately narcissistsreally look for people in these
(18:30):
vulnerable positions and usethem as targets for supply.
Meagan (18:36):
You're right in the sense that what narcissists will
Identify a target and come inand just be prince charming,
sweeping in and doing everythingright.
And it's such a strongcomparison to the vulnerable
relationship you just got outof.
Or, it didn't have to be arelationship.
It could be a bad familysituation or Someone coming out
(18:58):
of their own struggle, like outof eating disorder treatment or
something like that, thesenarcissists will come in and
just somehow be exactly what youneed to make it seem oh my gosh,
I found the holy grail ofrelationships here.
And this is so wonderful.
And that's how they sneak in.
And it doesn't last that long.
(19:18):
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But as we're starting to talkabout this, I think we have to
acknowledge to that we hear thisterm all the time.
A lot of people come into hertime and you'll see it all over
social media that.
Anyone who has had a bad breakupor feels like their partner has
been selfish, oh, they're anarcissist.
A narcissist is a term that isvery popularized and it's thrown
(19:42):
around a lot in a way that isnot really accurate.
We're going to pause here and goover the actual diagnostic
criteria for.
Narcissistic personalitydisorder for those out there
that feel like they see thisterm a lot and maybe you're
using it a lot, but you're not100 percent sure of what that
clinically means.
So the first description of thisis that a narcissist has a
(20:04):
pervasive pattern ofgrandiosity.
So either in fantasy or inactual behavior.
They have a need for admiration.
They have a total lack ofempathy.
And this tends to begin earlierin adulthood and it presents in
a lot of contexts.
So this feeling of Grander andthis need for admiration.
It's not just in one domain,like it's not just in their
(20:27):
professional career.
This is a pattern that ispresent all throughout multiple
different contexts of life.
Okay.
So for someone to come intotherapy and actually be
diagnosed with narcissisticpersonality disorder, they have
to meet five or more of thefollowing criteria.
So the first is that the personhas a really grandiose sense of
(20:48):
self importance.
So they really over exaggerateachievements and their talents.
They expect to be recognized asthe best.
They are superior in all thingsand all achievements that they
boast about themselves.
Number two is that they'rereally preoccupied with
fantasies of unlimited success.
power, brilliance, beauty orideal love.
(21:11):
So they really believe that theyare or will achieve this
unlimited level of success indifferent categories.
Number three, they tend tobelieve that they are special
and unique and can only beunderstood by or associate with
other really special, other highstatus people or sometimes
institutions.
(21:31):
Number four, they requireexcessive admiration.
So these people tend to get inarguments with people who are
not constantly agreeing withthis level of superiority that
they feel about themselves.
Number five, they may have asense of entitlement.
So this can look like reallyunreasonable expectations.
(21:53):
Of treatment, or they reallyexpect a lot of compliments to
just be automatically given tothem.
So this sense of entitlement isoften partnered with this really
unreasonable sense of I deserveall of these things.
And if these things aren'tautomatically given to me, then
clearly, everything else andeveryone else is wrong and are
in misalignment with what theysee about themselves in the
(22:13):
world.
Number six they areinterpersonally exploitative.
So it's very easy and almostlike second nature for them to
take advantage of others inorder to achieve their own ends.
Because after all, from theirperspective, they are the
special one.
They are the unique one, andeverything is owed to them.
So it's very easy for them toseek whatever they can take from
(22:36):
others.
And it just feels naturalbecause why wouldn't they be
deserving of everything fromyou?
And this ties really well intonumber seven, which is they have
a general kind of lack ofempathy.
This might not reach likesociopathic or psychopathic
levels, but they have a markedReduction and the empathy that
you would expect.
(22:56):
So Sydney was just mentioninglike she didn't receive a
birthday card for seven years tomost of us that feels really
sad, right?
That has an impact.
And yet to this person that shemay have been with, there's that
marked lack of empathy whereit's I'm just not focused on
anyone else because of courseit's about me.
I'm the one who deserves thosethings, and it's unreasonable
for others to expect thatbecause I'm the superior one.
(23:19):
And number eight they often areenvious of others or believe
others are very envious of them.
So there's this discussion of ofcourse they want to be like me.
Everyone wants to be like thishigh status in this particular
area.
And along with that number nine,they are arrogant.
They show a lot of kind ofarrogant, haughty behaviors or
(23:42):
attitudes especially towardsothers or in the behaviors or
content that they put out intothe world.
Maybe people fit one or two ofthese pretty often, maybe even
three or four if they tend to bea little more on the selfish
side and just not super greattype of person.
However, to really truly beclinically defined as a
(24:02):
narcissist, we have to hit fiveor more of these criteria on a
consistent basis across multipledomains of life.
Thanks for hearing the littlepause as we go over the
diagnostic criteria therebecause I think it's going to
tie in a lot as we continue tohear Sydney's story here.
So Sydney, as I was going overthose, what jumped out to you?
Sydney (24:21):
It's just funny to read them again because It wasn't
something that I was familiarwith at the time, and I knew
people threw the term around waytoo often, and I never thought
about it in the actualdiagnosable way.
But yeah, I just laugh when Ilook at it now, because I'm
like, yep.
(24:42):
Yep.
Checks off, checks out.
it's easy to take this checklistand still try to apply it to
people, I think, with a biasedlens.
But And I think, something thatreally helped me more so than
(25:12):
just reading like the actualtendencies that are in the DSM
was I read this book calledBecoming a Narcissist Nightmare.
And there's a lot of accounts inthat book of women that have
been in these types ofrelationships.
And they have their ownchecklists of behaviors within
relationships specifically.
(25:32):
And to me, that was the most eyeopening moment.
I was like, Oh my God, this ismy exact experience.
You could have made a blueprintfor it.
And that's really scary.
(26:02):
It's clear once you'veexperienced it, who these people
are.
And once you see it, you can'tunsee it.
Meagan (26:09):
Oh, yeah.
I bet when you're in it andyou're looking back with this
hindsight as well it becomesreally clear.
And since you mentioned theother book that you felt was
really helpful to you, I want togive a quick plug for a book
called Insight is 2020.
And this was written by actuallya Denver therapist Shelly.
Pumphrey, she used to have apractice here, and I think she
(26:29):
still does.
But this is a really fantasticbook that goes through
narcissistic abuse and how totrust yourself and protect
yourself from narcissistic abuseand other type of toxic
relationship patterns.
And it's really aptly namedbecause it is about, like, when
you look back on theserelationships.
It's like you have 20 20 vision,but you certainly do not when
(26:50):
you are in it, so it's reallyhelpful to have these resources
that help you while you're inthe moment and you're starting
to question, is this really asbad as I think it is?
And usually it is, andunfortunately it is, and that
way you're one step closer togetting help.
But with your story, Sydney, Ithink we left off on, you had
gotten out of this badrelationship and really quickly
(27:12):
got into another that in thebeginning seemed so great.
There is like these grandiosegestures and a lot of love
bombing type of behavior thatprobably felt really good at the
time.
So what was it that took youfrom that beginning honeymoon
phase into now I'm starting toquestion is this relationship
really as great as it seemed tobe?
So what happened there?
Sydney (27:34):
Yeah.
One, I just want to point out, Ihad been seeing a therapist the
entire time.
So I was able to process thingsas they were occurring with her.
And had I not, I don't think Iwould have noticed.
As much as I did or as quicklyas I did, but slowly things
started getting weird.
(27:54):
Like I actually, I look back atmy journal and I remember the
first time he ever gaslit me andI had never experienced
gaslighting before or knew thatthere was a term for it, he did
something and then immediatelytried to tell me that's not what
happened.
And I was like, wait, what doyou mean?
Are we not experiencing the samereality right now?
(28:17):
And that happens a couple times.
And I was like, what?
Is this and at first you doubtyourself, you're like, am I
crazy?
Am I remembering thisincorrectly?
And I would say that Idefinitely have not the best
memory.
I think my ADHD plays into thata little bit and he definitely
(28:37):
prayed on that and he wouldconstantly convince me that
something that he said or didn'thappen.
And that's a really hard thingto talk to somebody about
because They're just basicallyquestioning your entire
experience.
And I didn't know what the wordswere for it at the time.
And I just was like, this feelsoff.
(28:59):
And then more behavior startedto feel off.
Like he would get.
Really angry.
He had some really serious angerproblems and it would be like on
the flip of a switch, he wouldjust start yelling and screaming
and punching things and throwingthings.
And I was just like, this is notright.
(29:19):
And there would just be thesevery vicious cycles of things
would be going really well andthen something would happen.
I don't know what to set him offand he would just go berserk and
I would be Very confused andthen immediately he'd go into
recovery mode where there'd belove bombing again And it was
always flowers and this or thator an apology and a handwritten
(29:41):
note and whatever and then I'dbe like, okay I Accept your
apology And then I would justfind myself in this constant
state of fear and anxiety Whereeggshells waiting for the other
shoe to drop And it's justwhat's going to set him off
next?
What's going to upset him?
What can I do to avoid himgetting upset?
(30:02):
And he would be looking forthings, finding things to be
jealous about from my previousrelationship I have a boyfriend
box that I keep some of mythings and it's tucked away in
my closet.
And he made me burn everythingand get rid of everything, and
he never gave me the time toheal from that seven year
relationship.
It was just immediately into usbeing hot and heavy, super fast.
(30:25):
Which is one of those thingsThat narcissists do is they pull
you in really close, reallyquick and then slowly titrate
you into their bad behaviors.
And like I said, the gaslightingwas one, the anger was another.
And then he was just really meansometimes.
Like he would say things todegrade my self esteem And then
(30:58):
he would walk away and it's Oh,I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding.
Or little things here and thereto insult my intelligence too.
Like I mentioned, I have ADHD,so sometimes I'm forgetful or
sometimes I, have problems withexecutive functioning.
He would refer to me as as hisspecial girl, like just like
little language that's subtlydemeaning and degrading.
(31:19):
And it just kept escalating.
He knew exactly what to do andsay to be manipulative.
And it then became let's work onthis relationship.
Let's go to therapy together.
I would tell all these storiesto my therapist and she did a
really good job of scaffoldingthe information and not
inserting what she thoughtbecause at the time it would
(31:42):
have been hard for me to hear.
Instead she asked me thisquestion over and over again.
She said, if everything stayedthe same and nothing changed,
Would you want to be in thisrelationship?
And the answer was always no,but, and I find some kind of
reason some kind of hope, somekind of breadcrumb somewhere.
(32:03):
And we talked a lot about flagsand so we do a lot.
She'd be like, okay, that's agreen flag.
That's a red flag.
That's a yellow flag.
And it got to a point where itwas red flag after major red
flag.
Another question that she oftenasked me was what.
Does this remind you of frompast relationships?
And I didn't see it at the time,but I definitely grew up with a
(32:25):
narcissist in my household.
And there were things that hedid and said and ways that he
made me feel that reminds me ofthe anxiety I experienced
growing up, where it was like,am I going to get the love
today?
Or am I going to be in shame andanxiety today?
Eventually it got so bad and itwould be in public too.
He would do terrible things tome in public, yell at me in
(32:48):
public, in front of my father,in front of other people.
it got to the point where otherpeople were noticing and they
were like, this is not okay.
And my best friend would ask meon a weekly basis.
When are you breaking up withhim?
And it was in my head.
I was like, okay, this isstarting to be not good.
But I had this anxiousattachment where I was not quite
(33:11):
ready to let it go.
And then it all came to a head.
One night we were at a concertand psychedelics were involved,
which means emotions were veryheavy.
And he just blew up at me.
He thought he saw my exboyfriend in the crowd.
and that totally set him offinto a spiral.
(33:46):
I've always had anxiety, butthis period of time was the
worst it had ever been.
And he capitalized on thatbecause he knew it.
And I was with a new friend thatis now one of my best friends
who in the moment.
We really didn't know eachother.
And she just was like, you don'tneed to put up with this.
(34:06):
You know that, right?
Meagan (34:08):
The power of another woman just stepping in to say
that and lend that hand.
Sydney (34:13):
Yeah, I have so much gratitude for her because that
was really the switch where Iwas just like, No, this is not
okay.
I was afraid to go home with himthat night.
At that point we had been livingtogether, which was insane
because that should have neverhappened, but he needed a place
and I let him.
(34:33):
But yeah, we went home thatnight.
He was absolutely crazy becauseI was put off by him and he was
really trying to have sex withme and I had said no repeatedly,
but he wouldn't take no for ananswer.
it was really bad and I lockedhim out of the room and he would
break into the room and I was soscared of him that I was peeing
(34:55):
in a water bottle in my bedroominstead of leaving the room
because he was crazy.
And I was texting all my familyand friends I, I'm scared I felt
like it was only a matter oftime before he was gonna hit me,
and that night I was like, thismight be it.
There were moments that I hadwith him that gave me flashbacks
(35:15):
to childhood abuse.
And I was like, I'm notexperiencing this ever again.
I will not be backed into acorner and my face be yelled at
and this is totally unacceptablebehavior.
So I got my stuff and I left inthe middle of the night after he
finally went to sleep and Inever looked back.
Meagan (35:37):
I'm so glad you were able to get yourself out of that
situation.
It really is terrifying and bythe time you reach that
situation, you already felt likeyou were at enough risk of harm
that you had to lock yourself ina room.
.Yeah.
And I think a lot of women findthemselves in that place or when
they've even gotten past thepoint where they've been hit or
(35:58):
worse.
And now it's the question of howdo I leave safely because it was
clear even in your situation,you didn't feel like you could
leave when you wanted to.
You had to wait for him to beasleep.
So this can escalate reallyquickly before we can even see
it happening when you're in it.
Yeah, totally.
Sydney (36:18):
And I'm glad that I had the wherewithal from doing the
self work and, the support,really the support that I had
was Monumental in helping me.
All my friends, came to my sideand a lot of men that were
actually, friends with him theysaw all of this and they were
(36:38):
like.
We don't excuse this behaviorand they completely cut him off
and cut him out.
Everybody was coming over to myhouse to check in.
One of my guy friends stayed atthe house while he was moving
out to make sure that he didn'tdo anything weird.
It was just, it was scary for awhile.
There were a couple of timeswhere he tried to reach out, I
(36:59):
blocked him on everything.
So he dropped off a letter at myhouse at a very opportune time
where he knew I was going to aconcert that was really
important to me that night.
Luckily I didn't see it, but hecame to my house and dropped off
this long letter.
And He did that another time,and I ended up not even reading
it that time, but he wasdefinitely trying to pull me
back in.
Meagan (37:20):
And that's a clear, example of that psychological
abuse, that he knew the timingof it, he wanted to hit you
emotionally on an important day.
Yeah, all sprinkled throughoutthis experience you've had, it's
increasing levels of emotionalabuse.
Psychological abuse with thegaslighting all the way
escalating up to a lot ofintimidation and right on that
(37:41):
bridge of physical abuse.
So it's often in these toxicdynamics.
It's not just Oh, they hit you.
And if they don't hit you,you're in a good relationship.
It's really not that simple.
It's multiple forms of abusethat is often utilized to get to
this point where, oh, man, nowit's bad.
Now it's really hard to leaveand I might not be safe to
(38:01):
leave.
But I'm so glad in your example.
It didn't get to the point whereyou were so isolated that you
didn't have someone to textwhile you were locked in that
room.
You didn't have someone that washelping support you while you
were moving out.
So keeping the support of yourtherapist, of your friends, of
your family, that's critical toyour safety and your ability to
get through.
(38:22):
A dynamic like this.
Sydney (38:23):
Absolutely.
And I consider myself very luckybecause I have women in my life
that have experienced way worseforms of narcissistic abuse that
all started very similarly.
But they didn't necessarily havethe support network that I do
or.
I, darkly joke about this, but Isometimes say he was just not as
(38:46):
good at his job as some othernarcissists are.
And I didn't marry him.
I didn't have kids with him.
All of those extra things thatreally make that much harder.
I think it helps also that.
The people that we surroundourselves with are really good
people.
And when these men saw thattheir friend was behaving this
(39:10):
way, they're like, Nope, I don'tcare.
Even things that like.
They kicked him off the softballteam, which I'm not involved
with that at all.
But they were like, we wantnothing to do with this person.
That's not the case for a lot ofpeople for a lot of people.
Narcissists could be reallystrong in their social networks.
They might be powerful orinfluential.
(39:31):
And they often are becausethey're really good at putting
on a mask and or they'rechameleons to their environment
and they pray off of otherpeople's examples and then
emulate them, even thoughthey're not sure how to be this
person.
They're not actually thisperson.
They're like a shell.
(40:24):
When it first ended, I didn'tunderstand a hundred percent
what the narcissist componentwas.
And It's funny because my dadreally early on, but send me
psychology today, articles aboutlove bombing I was like, okay,
yeah, that was probably whatthat was.
And then when I read that book,which sounds very similar to the
(40:45):
one you're talking about and Iread other women's accounts it
was so validating.
And I think validation was themost important part of healing
for me.
And that came, in the form ofbooks and my therapist and other
people in my social sphere.
I think that the hardest part islearning to trust yourself again
(41:07):
and not be riddled with selfanger or self doubt.
My first thought is how could Ilet this happen to me?
Am I that weak of a person thatI let somebody do this to me?
So building up that self worthagain, I think was the most
imperative point for me And Iwas able to do that through just
(41:30):
this intense I called it myincubation period where, I was
consistently in therapy, I wasjournaling a lot, meditating
regularly, going to yogachanging things in my space,
getting a new roommate who wasactually the girl who inspired
me to leave him and thatrelationship blossomed and
(41:52):
really was helpful in my healingas well.
And yeah, I went on some.
International trips where I dida lot of fun yoga, surfing type
things and self searching.
And eventually I was able tobuild that back up.
Healing from that was one of themost radical acts of self love
(42:13):
I've ever done for myself.
Meagan (42:15):
That's really powerful.
That takes so much work and timeto recognize the areas of
yourself that were broken downand the way that you're now
talking to yourself aboutyourself and learning how to
unravel that negative self talkand bring back a self concept
that is not so damaging.
Cause holding onto that kind oflets them win.
But I know I've had a lot ofclients that have come to
(42:38):
therapy and I think we've talkedabout this in the past too,
where oftentimes as people leavenegative relationships or they
go through a really hardbreakup, they go into this
belief that I call it like acocoon effect where they're
like, I just need to go intotherapy or do my eat, pray, love
thing for five years and thenI'll be all done with my healing
and I'll emerge this beautifulbutterfly that's able to date
(43:00):
and able to have it alltogether.
And that's not really how thisworks.
We can't heal entirely inisolation and outside of
relationships, right?
Because sure, we need to maybetake some distance and have some
time to grieve and build backthe relationship with ourselves.
But being willing to be inrelationship with friends and
(43:21):
family and eventually otherromantic partners can be really
healing too.
So I'm curious to hear aboutyour experience with finding
your next partner as part ofthis healing journey.
Sydney (43:31):
Yeah, I think That was a really big part of my healing
journey in a surprising way.
And you hit the nail on thehead.
Like I said, I called it mycocoon phase and I set a
timeline for myself.
I was like, all right, for sixmonths, I'm not going to date
anybody.
Which felt important to me,because I had jumped from
relationship to relationship.
And I was like, I need to takesome time to refigure out who I
(43:55):
am.
And what I want with my life andthen I will make myself open to
the universe if something shallcome my way.
I did do the online dating thingfor a little while just because
I was feeling lonely.
And I was like, okay, maybe I'mready, to meet someone casually.
And let's just practice thecasual thing.
(44:17):
And I ended up meeting somebodywho was like, Super lovely.
And we hit it off and we went ona bunch of dates together, spent
a lot of time together.
And the entire time we went intoit, like he had just gone
through a breakup.
I had just gone through my twobreakups in a row.
And we're both like, we're justgoing to casually date
intentionally, and we're notgoing to put any pressure on
(44:39):
anything And we did that for sixmonths.
And at a certain point my brainwas like, okay, maybe this is
too much.
Maybe we should stop this.
Like it feels like therelationship, but I don't want a
relationship with this person.
There's no way we would everwork.
He's too boring.
And I realized something veryimportant that my therapist told
(45:00):
me.
And that was that after this andafter all the relationships that
I've been through throughout mylife that had these patterns of
intensity and then depression,just like the up and down of the
nervous system meeting somebodywho was stable and emotionally
regulated and didn't tear up mynervous system seemed boring.
(45:21):
And.
I listened to that.
I would make excuses constantlyto her, to my friends, to my
parents nah, but he's not.
He's not it.
And they're like, you haven'ttold me a single thing yet.
That's bad.
I almost broke it off for asecond.
And then I reverted back aroundand listened to myself and
listened to my therapist and waslike, maybe I should just try
(45:43):
this.
And it ended up being one of thebest decisions I've ever made.
I am really.
Excited because I am now in oneof the most loving and genuinely
wonderful relationships I'veever been in in any type of
form, I have somebody that.
Is good for my nervous systemand I can feel that and I can
(46:06):
feel how different that is andhow actually that's how it
should be and it's not somethingI ever knew was even possible
just because of how manydamaging relationships I had in
my life and I didn't realize youcould just not fight all the
time.
Both of my last relationshipswere categorized by lots of
arguing, lots of fighting andincluding, my mom and stepdad
(46:27):
and I thought that was normal.
I thought that's what you dealtwith when you love somebody.
He is just so wonderful andcompassionate and empathetic.
And he shows up for me and allthe things that I thought I was
too much to ask for.
(46:49):
He's what do you mean?
Of course, I'll do this for you.
Of course, I'll be there for youthrough this.
Don't feel.
Guilty asking for support whenyou're anxious, stuff like that,
it's really beautiful.
And I think that's important forme to share with others who are
going through this, it is outthere and you deserve it, we all
deserve it.
(47:10):
And for me, that has been sohealing in so many ways, like
instead of focusing on all ofthe problems that I need to fix
in this person or therelationship, I have this
support person who's here as Inavigate my own life and my own
desires.
And I've been talking about.
Starting my therapy journey ingrad school for probably four
(47:32):
years and it wasn't until Ifinally could emotionally relax
and focus till I finally did it.
And so many things in my lifehave changed because I have
found this relationship thatgives me the freedom to be who I
am while also supporting me ineverything that I do.
Meagan (47:52):
Yeah, that's so powerful.
And honestly, it takes a lot ofbravery to get to this place to
try to heal and trust anotherperson again with your heart and
with being in that intimatevulnerable type of relationship.
It's really scary after you'vebeen burned so deeply two times
before.
It's really easy to just sayit's not worth it.
(48:15):
All men are too scary.
And even if there maybe is thishope of a couple out there that
are okay, it's just not worthgoing through it all.
Your story is a really goodexample that it's worth kind of
being brave and doing thehealing on your own.
But also as part of thathealing, being open to exploring
other relationships and meetingnew people and new partners.
(48:36):
I characterize it as one of themost powerful things.
I think all women, even if wehaven't been through this type
of really toxic relationship, weall need to unlearn the Disney
reality of relationships whereit's very dramatic and the
fireworks are going off and it'sPrince Charming swooping in and
there's this big element of therelationship coming into your
(48:58):
life, which feels exciting, butthat's actually a red flag,
right?
The faster it happens, the moredramatic it feels.
The bigger sensation of lovethat starts a relationship can
actually be a sign that it's notgood.
And as you said, some of thesafest, healthiest, most solid
relationships are the ones thatare going to feel boring at
(49:19):
times.
So maybe that's the thing to gofor.
Sydney (49:22):
Yeah, I was like, I'm so excited for my life to be more
boring.
My twenties were very chaoticand very dramatic.
And I've been so ready to justbe settled into my life and, on
this path.
And I think this relationshipwas part of it.
And healing from those other twowas.
(49:42):
A big part of it as well.
And it's something that I'mstill working on every day.
It doesn't just go away.
It's it's pervasive and fightingthe self doubt is still hard.
It's still something that I.
Sometimes seek validation for mypartner who has a lot of
patience with me with I thinkthe biggest thing is patience in
(50:03):
the healing process is patiencefor yourself and the people that
have patience for you or thepeople you want to keep around
because it's not easy.
And it's constant work and youhave to take the time to do it,
Meagan (50:18):
right?
As we're wrapping up here,Sydney, I have one more question
for you.
You mentioned at the beginningof your story as you went into
these two kind of bigrelationships that you had to
navigate through and heal from.
You mentioned that kind of allstarted off with you being boy
crazy as you were younger.
And We're not going to demonizewomen's sexuality, right?
(50:39):
Like that term in itself hasthat connotation of there's
something wrong with that whenreally that's what you're
supposed to be doing as youbecome a teenager.
Biologically, that's what'ssupposed to happen.
So we're not going to victimblame on that regard.
You looked at it like, okay, Istarted off as being a little
bit more boy crazy and becauseof my family situation, I had an
Anxious attachment style thatmaybe made you a bit more
(51:01):
vulnerable to these dynamics.
And as you're looking back onyour childhood and these
relationships and the goodrelationships that you're in
now, I'm curious, what is itthat you tell you about yourself
after having gone through all ofthis?
What is the belief in the selftalk that you practice now
because of all the work you'vedone to really see the big
(51:22):
picture?
Sydney (51:24):
The number one mantra I have is you are enough.
And that's something that Iwrote on my mirror the day after
I kicked the other guy out ofthe house and loving all parts
of yourself, including theshadow side, the things that we
don't necessarily like aboutourselves.
(51:44):
Loving myself wholly and givingmyself grace and patience.
Loving myself in general hasbeen a struggle for me
throughout my life and I thinkI've done a lot of inner child
work where I go back and havethese meditations where I'm
Hugging and loving my innerchild and I think that's been
(52:07):
Really helpful.
I've written letters to my innerchild because I think a lot of
these relational patternsstarted from a really young age
where
Some other mantras I have are
I felt abandoned,
Some other mantras I have are
so healing that abandonment wound.
(52:28):
I deserve healthy love.
This is an opportunity forgrowth.
I have amazing support.
I am strong.
I am resilient.
Resiliency was a big one for metoo.
Meagan (52:42):
That's a great list of mantras for other women that
find themselves in this place tostart with.
And working with the therapistto help developing that list of
this is how we talk to ourselvesas a form of resistance to what
they're wanting you to believeand the way that they're talking
down to you.
That can make the differencebetween being able to Get out
and change your life Thank youso much for sharing your story
(53:04):
today.
Sydney.
I think a lot of women are goingto relate to this and your story
is going to be really inspiringto them to make some different
choices.
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