May 28, 2025 • 9 mins
Judith Jones, long-time editor for Alfred A. Knopf, persuaded the publisher to take a chance on a French cookbook that no one knew they wanted. That book and TV made Julia Child a surprising star. Learn about three themes that helped make Mastering the Art of French Cooking a publishing success: counter positioning, fascination with the Kennedys, and the rise of TV.
For more on Judith Jones and her work with Julia Child, read The Editor: How Publishing Legend Judith Jones Shaped Culture in America by Sara B. Franklin
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:02):
Hello, Listeners. Welcome to I'll Probably Delete
This, where I learn about thebook publishing industry and
podcasting by telling storiesfrom successful writers and
other notable people from thehistory of the publishing
industry.
In this episode, we will coveran introduction to Julia Child's
(00:24):
start as kind of the popularizerof French cuisine in America,
and I'm gonna focus on threethings that contributed to the
success of her first cookbook,which she wrote with two other
authors.
In future episodes, we'll coverstories from successful authors
like Laura Ingalls Wilder orCharles Dickens, who by some
(00:47):
accounts wrote history's bestselling novel. We'll cover Mary
Pope Osborne, theunderappreciated author of the
hugely successful MagicTreehouse book series aimed at
kids or the publishing phenomthat is James Patterson and the
now more than hundred books thathe's published as well as many
others.
(01:09):
Publishing house, Alfred A.Knopf published Mastering the
Art of French Cooking in 1961.Judith Jones was an editor
there, and she was central toKnopf acquiring the cookbook and
getting it published.Essentially, it was a hard sell
to persuade the publishing housethat a cookbook, and this one in
(01:32):
particular, would be a good bet.Part of the problem, obviously,
was that the book was more than700 pages, which would make it
expensive to print, and Knopf,at least at the time, wasn't all
that interested in cookbooks.
Jones ultimately was successfulin persuading the publishing
house to acquire and release thebook, but that's really when her
(01:55):
work began. After acquiring thebook in early 1960 , Jones then
set out to revise the structureof the book and its writing. The
book had come in with a title ofFrench Recipes for American
Cooks. It had three authors, twoof them were French, Louisette
(02:15):
Bertholle and Simone Beck. Andthen the third, Julia Child, had
been living in Europe for atleast the last ten years. Her
husband worked for the StateDepartment.
So Jones tried out the recipesat home, and in edits, she
really focused on making surethat when the book described
things like cuts of meat orvegetables or other produce,
(02:37):
that the ingredients wereavailable in American
supermarkets, that thedirections were clear for the
American home cook and didn'tassume too high of a level of
skill on the reader's part, andthat the recipes could be made
with the stove in particular andthe equipment that was available
to the typical Americanhousehold. The edits were
(03:00):
extensive, and it was Child onthe other end who took up the
revisions for the trio ofauthors, and she really took it
up with gusto. Jones and Childhad a really good working
relationship. As part of theediting, they went on to change
the title of the book fromFrench Recipes for American
Cooks to Mastering the Art ofFrench Cooking, in part to
(03:22):
signal an aspirational qualityto the cookbook.
When Knopf finally releases thebook in October of 1961 , it was
a large and surprising success,although that success certainly
built over time and took awhile. There were three things
that I wanna highlight thatcontributed to this success,
probably among others, but Iwanted to focus on on these
(03:44):
three.
The first is a kind of counterpositioning. There was a lot of
focus in American culture at thetime, beginning in the nineteen
sixties and really continuing oncertainly through the early
eighties, on things likeprepared foods, canned and
prepackaged food, and ready madefood like TV dinners. And this
(04:05):
book was very much a counter tothat. It was encouraging people
to take time and focus onpreparation and focus on
ingredients and to create a morerefined dish for their family at
dinner or for a dinner party.
The second was really interestin the Kennedys. John f Kennedy
(04:29):
is inaugurated in January of1961 . Jackie Kennedy becomes
first lady, and she brings tothe White House a real style
that captivated lots ofAmericans at the time.
Importantly for our purposes isshe also spoke French. She had
lived in France for a time, andthen most significantly for the
(04:52):
cookbook, Jackie had hired aFrenchman to be the White House
chef earlier in the year,earlier in the the year of the
release of the cookbook, whichhad made the news and was kind
of in the culture at the time.
And then the last one is themedia environment at the time.
So as part of the book launch,Knopf had Gotten Child and her
(05:14):
co author Beck booked on NBC'sToday Show. They were they would
do a live segment on TV. In1961, it's worth noting that
TV's reach at that point waspretty impressive from just a
couple thousand TV sets thatexisted in The US in 1945.
(05:38):
Americans had bought TVs by themillions, so that by 1960, more
than 85% of US households had aTV.
Julia Child in her late fortiesand her co author who was even
older [were] worried about beingseen as a couple of old ladies
on TV [who] might not beappealing to the television
(06:01):
audience, and she wanted to sortof show vigor and the appeal of
French cooking and to make thebook seem more appealing. So she
prepared a cooking demonstrationfor live TV, which was a novel
idea at the time. She gatheredup the equipment, sort of the
hot plate, the pan, butter,eggs, and was gonna make an
(06:24):
omelet live on TV. And she gotit all together and practiced
repeatedly the night before sothat she'd be ready and could
describe what she was doing andtalk about the book all while
she's cooking and cooking theomelet. She was able to do that
on the TV spot the next day, and4,000,000 people, mostly
(06:46):
housewives, saw her on the Todayshow. As evidence for kind of
the reach, later that week,Child and Beck did a
demonstration and a book signingat Bloomingdale's in New York,
hoping to sell a few dozen,maybe a hundred copies, and when
they pulled up before they wereeven scheduled to start, there
(07:08):
was a line out the door andaround the block of women
waiting to meet them and to buytheir book.
The very next year, Child whohad moved, kind of during the
editing, from Europe to Bostonwas now living in Boston, and
she ends up filming a cookingshow for the Boston Public
(07:29):
Television Station, WGBH. Theyhad approached her. They did a
couple pilots and wanted to seehow it would work. They end up
hiring her for a full season,but they offered no pay. And the
deal was that Child would makethe show and they would pay for
the cost and the equipment andthe ingredients, and she could
(07:52):
promote her book while doing theshow. WGBH, it's one of the most
successful shows they they hadever done at the time. It gets
picked up by public televisionstations across the country, and
then the TV show really drovesales of the cookbook for years
to come after its initialrelease.
(08:14):
Those three things that wehighlighted, you've got kind of
a counter positioning to adominant strand in in food
culture, even though foodculture really wasn't a a thing
like it is now. As reallyspecific prepared intentional
meals; you've got, in a way,riding on the coattails of the
(08:36):
fascination with the Kennedysand the style that they
represented. And then you've gotthe technological innovation of
TV that was used in a way byJulia Child, like really nobody
before, to promote her book thatreally contributed to the
success of Mastering the Art ofFrench Cooking.
(08:58):
If you found that storyinteresting, I encourage you to
take a look at the book calledThe Editor, How Publishing
Legend Judith Jones ShapedCulture in America. It was
written by Sarah B. Franklin andpublished by Atria Books in
2024. And if you're interestedin learning more about
(09:20):
publishing Julia Child or thelife of Judith Jones, that book
is a great place to start.
Thank you for joining me. I hopeyou'll join me for the next
episode of I'll Probably DeleteThis, where we'll explore more
stories of great books, unless,of course, I delete this before
then, which I probably will.Thanks everybody.
Hello, Listeners. Welcome to I'll Probably Delete
This, where I learn about thebook publishing industry and
podcasting by telling storiesfrom successful writers and
other notable people from thehistory of the publishing
industry.
In this episode, we will coveran introduction to Julia Child's
(00:24):
start as kind of the popularizerof French cuisine in America,
and I'm gonna focus on threethings that contributed to the
success of her first cookbook,which she wrote with two other
authors.
In future episodes, we'll coverstories from successful authors
like Laura Ingalls Wilder orCharles Dickens, who by some
(00:47):
accounts wrote history's bestselling novel. We'll cover Mary
Pope Osborne, theunderappreciated author of the
hugely successful MagicTreehouse book series aimed at
kids or the publishing phenomthat is James Patterson and the
now more than hundred books thathe's published as well as many
others.
(01:09):
Publishing house, Alfred A.Knopf published Mastering the
Art of French Cooking in 1961.Judith Jones was an editor
there, and she was central toKnopf acquiring the cookbook and
getting it published.Essentially, it was a hard sell
to persuade the publishing housethat a cookbook, and this one in
(01:32):
particular, would be a good bet.Part of the problem, obviously,
was that the book was more than700 pages, which would make it
expensive to print, and Knopf,at least at the time, wasn't all
that interested in cookbooks.
Jones ultimately was successfulin persuading the publishing
house to acquire and release thebook, but that's really when her
(01:55):
work began. After acquiring thebook in early 1960 , Jones then
set out to revise the structureof the book and its writing. The
book had come in with a title ofFrench Recipes for American
Cooks. It had three authors, twoof them were French, Louisette
(02:15):
Bertholle and Simone Beck. Andthen the third, Julia Child, had
been living in Europe for atleast the last ten years. Her
husband worked for the StateDepartment.
So Jones tried out the recipesat home, and in edits, she
really focused on making surethat when the book described
things like cuts of meat orvegetables or other produce,
(02:37):
that the ingredients wereavailable in American
supermarkets, that thedirections were clear for the
American home cook and didn'tassume too high of a level of
skill on the reader's part, andthat the recipes could be made
with the stove in particular andthe equipment that was available
to the typical Americanhousehold. The edits were
(03:00):
extensive, and it was Child onthe other end who took up the
revisions for the trio ofauthors, and she really took it
up with gusto. Jones and Childhad a really good working
relationship. As part of theediting, they went on to change
the title of the book fromFrench Recipes for American
Cooks to Mastering the Art ofFrench Cooking, in part to
(03:22):
signal an aspirational qualityto the cookbook.
When Knopf finally releases thebook in October of 1961 , it was
a large and surprising success,although that success certainly
built over time and took awhile. There were three things
that I wanna highlight thatcontributed to this success,
probably among others, but Iwanted to focus on on these
(03:44):
three.
The first is a kind of counterpositioning. There was a lot of
focus in American culture at thetime, beginning in the nineteen
sixties and really continuing oncertainly through the early
eighties, on things likeprepared foods, canned and
prepackaged food, and ready madefood like TV dinners. And this
(04:05):
book was very much a counter tothat. It was encouraging people
to take time and focus onpreparation and focus on
ingredients and to create a morerefined dish for their family at
dinner or for a dinner party.
The second was really interestin the Kennedys. John f Kennedy
(04:29):
is inaugurated in January of1961 . Jackie Kennedy becomes
first lady, and she brings tothe White House a real style
that captivated lots ofAmericans at the time.
Importantly for our purposes isshe also spoke French. She had
lived in France for a time, andthen most significantly for the
(04:52):
cookbook, Jackie had hired aFrenchman to be the White House
chef earlier in the year,earlier in the the year of the
release of the cookbook, whichhad made the news and was kind
of in the culture at the time.
And then the last one is themedia environment at the time.
So as part of the book launch,Knopf had Gotten Child and her
(05:14):
co author Beck booked on NBC'sToday Show. They were they would
do a live segment on TV. In1961, it's worth noting that
TV's reach at that point waspretty impressive from just a
couple thousand TV sets thatexisted in The US in 1945.
(05:38):
Americans had bought TVs by themillions, so that by 1960, more
than 85% of US households had aTV.
Julia Child in her late fortiesand her co author who was even
older [were] worried about beingseen as a couple of old ladies
on TV [who] might not beappealing to the television
(06:01):
audience, and she wanted to sortof show vigor and the appeal of
French cooking and to make thebook seem more appealing. So she
prepared a cooking demonstrationfor live TV, which was a novel
idea at the time. She gatheredup the equipment, sort of the
hot plate, the pan, butter,eggs, and was gonna make an
(06:24):
omelet live on TV. And she gotit all together and practiced
repeatedly the night before sothat she'd be ready and could
describe what she was doing andtalk about the book all while
she's cooking and cooking theomelet. She was able to do that
on the TV spot the next day, and4,000,000 people, mostly
(06:46):
housewives, saw her on the Todayshow. As evidence for kind of
the reach, later that week,Child and Beck did a
demonstration and a book signingat Bloomingdale's in New York,
hoping to sell a few dozen,maybe a hundred copies, and when
they pulled up before they wereeven scheduled to start, there
(07:08):
was a line out the door andaround the block of women
waiting to meet them and to buytheir book.
The very next year, Child whohad moved, kind of during the
editing, from Europe to Bostonwas now living in Boston, and
she ends up filming a cookingshow for the Boston Public
(07:29):
Television Station, WGBH. Theyhad approached her. They did a
couple pilots and wanted to seehow it would work. They end up
hiring her for a full season,but they offered no pay. And the
deal was that Child would makethe show and they would pay for
the cost and the equipment andthe ingredients, and she could
(07:52):
promote her book while doing theshow. WGBH, it's one of the most
successful shows they they hadever done at the time. It gets
picked up by public televisionstations across the country, and
then the TV show really drovesales of the cookbook for years
to come after its initialrelease.
(08:14):
Those three things that wehighlighted, you've got kind of
a counter positioning to adominant strand in in food
culture, even though foodculture really wasn't a a thing
like it is now. As reallyspecific prepared intentional
meals; you've got, in a way,riding on the coattails of the
(08:36):
fascination with the Kennedysand the style that they
represented. And then you've gotthe technological innovation of
TV that was used in a way byJulia Child, like really nobody
before, to promote her book thatreally contributed to the
success of Mastering the Art ofFrench Cooking.
(08:58):
If you found that storyinteresting, I encourage you to
take a look at the book calledThe Editor, How Publishing
Legend Judith Jones ShapedCulture in America. It was
written by Sarah B. Franklin andpublished by Atria Books in
2024. And if you're interestedin learning more about
(09:20):
publishing Julia Child or thelife of Judith Jones, that book
is a great place to start.
Thank you for joining me. I hopeyou'll join me for the next
episode of I'll Probably DeleteThis, where we'll explore more
stories of great books, unless,of course, I delete this before
then, which I probably will.Thanks everybody.
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