Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How in the world does
a debut author in her sixties
write a bestseller that changesthe publishing industry?
And could you make every storymore interesting by adding a
family of serial killers?
Stick around to find out.
(00:21):
Hello, listeners.My name is Will Jauquet, and welcome
to I'll Probably Delete This,where I get to learn about book
publishing and podcasting bytelling you stories from
successful authors and othernotable people from the history
of the publishing industry.
You may know that Laura IngallsWilder began writing the Little
(00:44):
House series of books after sheturned 60. This fact always
struck me as strange and kind ofimpressive. She didn't publish
any books before the LittleHouse series. They are the only
books she writes, and they'rereally well written and really
(01:05):
engaging. They sell well fromthe beginning and only grow in
popularity over time.
Why did she start so late inlife on these books? How did she
get her first book deal afterthe age of 60? And what was it
about her that she was able towrite successful books in her
(01:26):
sixties without having had abunch of prior publishing
experience? In this episode, weare going to focus on a partial
answer to just one of thosequestions, how she got her first
book deal. And we will dividethe answer into two parts.
(01:47):
This episode will cover some ofher motivation to start writing
and her experience submittingher memoir. And yes, I'll
explain the serial killerreference. The next episode will
close the loop on answering ourquestion of how Laura Ingalls
Wilder finally got thepublishing contract and her
(02:08):
first book published.
In future episodes, we willcover more stories from other
successful storytellers andauthors. Join me now as we learn
more about the publishingindustry through telling part of
Laura Ingalls Wilder's story.
(02:29):
One problem with taking up anypart of Laura 's story is that
so much has been written abouther. There are really no end of
books and articles that you canfind. And really no end of
detail that you can tell orrabbit holes you can go down. To
(02:50):
keep this episode short, I'mgoing to focus only on why Laura
began writing a book and how itchanged from her initial idea to
what gets published. Thisepisode will cover the first
part.
Let's start with our end inmind. What was the result?
(03:12):
Harper Brothers Publishingreleased Little House in the Big
Woods in April of 1932 . Laurawas 65 at the time. The book
sold well even during thegrowing economic depression.
To tell the full story of how wegot there, we would have to go
(03:34):
back much earlier in Laura'slife. I'm not gonna do that
here. Instead, we're only gonnago back a few years to start
this part of our story. Early in1930, Laura Ingalls Wilder set
out to write her memoir. Herdaughter, Rose Wilder Lane, had
(03:58):
been pushing her for years torecord stories from her youth,
and especially to write down thestories of Laura's father and
his homesteading days.
Laura was doing it now becausenow she had more motivation. Her
sister Mary had died a littlemore than a year before. Sadly
(04:22):
for her, both of her parentswere now gone. And she knew that
if she didn't put down thesestories, they were gonna be
lost.
She had asked for reflectionsfrom an elderly aunt still
living who was back in theWisconsin woods where Laura had
(04:42):
been born and where her parentshad met and where Laura had
grown up at least for part ofher life. And what she got back
was two different letters withdozens of pages of reflections,
including songs, recipes, sortof detailed reflections on what
(05:03):
was life like and what her auntremembered. And because of these
letters, when Laura sat down towrite, she had more than just
her own memories to pull from.
She had also written for a kindof local newspaper called the
Missouri Ruralist. It was afarmer newspaper. And
(05:25):
occasionally she would includereflections, so she had some
experience writing about andtalking about these things.
The other reason why she wasmotivated was she also wanted to
earn money. Coming up, there wasthe fiftieth anniversary of the
founding of the town of De Smetlater that summer that she and
(05:47):
Almanzo wanted to attend, ormaybe Rose wanted them to attend
even more than than Laura wantedto go. Also, Rose's stockbroker
had lost a bunch of money in thestock market crash, both her own
and her parents, Laura andAlmanzo. The stock market
(06:09):
crashed in October of nineteentwenty nine and this is
traditionally seen as thebeginning of the Great
Depression. Rose also hadundertaken various building
projects on the farm, RockyRidge Farm in Missouri,
including Rose set out to builda new house for Laura and
(06:31):
Almanzo.
It was typical of Rose tostruggle to live within her
means and Rose, a professionalwriter, wasn't writing. As a
professional writer, Rose seemedto currently be under enough
stress and strain that eithershe couldn't or wouldn't write.
(06:52):
The stage then in early nineteenthirty is that Laura, now 63
years old, got to work writing,hoping to find a market for the
stories of her life.
Laura got to work and workedsteadily, writing by hand using
(07:12):
a number two pencil and schoolwriting tablets. She had a
typewriter but didn't use it.Instead, she filled up six
tablets, numbering them onethrough six, and wrote across
the first one, Pioneer Girl. Inthe tablets she told the sweep
of her girlhood from age twothrough 18, traveling from
(07:37):
Kansas to Wisconsin to Minnesotaand finally to the Dakota
territories. She wrote in thefirst person, and Laura failed
to include chapter headings andput in really only a few section
breaks. As she wrote, she putnotes to herself in the margin
(07:58):
and she also wrote some notesand questions to her daughter
Rose in the margins. Laurafinished her work in early May
and handed over her six notepadsto Rose for review and typing.
Rose was living on the farm inthe separate house, and
presumably they would have hadconversations about this, and
(08:21):
presumably this was planned,that Laura would sit down and
write, and Rose was going totype it up for her. Rose made
quick work of her role. When shewas done typing, the manuscript
was 160 pages, and from the timethat she got the tablets until
she sent the manuscript off toNew York was less than ten days.
(08:45):
Once done, Rose then mailed thetyped manuscript off to her
literary agent, Carl Brandt. Inthe late 1920s and 1930s,
juvenile publishing, in otherwords, publishing books targeted
at kids, was still pretty new ina way but was a growing segment
(09:07):
of book publishing. Or at leastit was growing before the Great
Depression. Brandt himselfdidn't have much experience with
it, and the Pioneer Girl, thememoir isn't obviously aimed at
kids. Also, the idea of youngadult or YA books didn't really
(09:30):
exist. It wasn't a thing.
Brandt, when he received themanuscript, he offered it up to
various magazines for interestin serializing Laura's story,
but he got no takers. He endedup mailing the manuscript back
to Rose only a month afterreceiving it.
(09:51):
When Rose got the manuscriptback, she had to decide what to
do with it. She now had some ofher own projects that she could
turn to, but at least based onher actions, she must have
thought that her mom hadsomething in the stories that
she had put together. Roseobviously wants money and thinks
(10:14):
earning additional money isimportant for the family, and
money is kind of a constantrefrain in her letters and
journals, sometimes morepressing than others but pretty
constant.
In response to getting therejected manuscript back, Rose
began revising the memoir. Inthe revisions, she polished it
(10:37):
up and tried to build a strongernarrative. In addition, some of
the considered revisions toPioneer Girl are kind of wild.
Rose revises it to make thestory stronger, she makes it a
bit more literary, and she alsotries to spice it up.
In one draft, Rose inserts thestory of a family of serial
(11:01):
killers. This isn't a joke. Sheadds them early in the
manuscript likely as a way tograb the reader's attention and
to persuade editors to buy thestory. Ultimately, it it doesn't
stay in, and it is based on factthat would have overlapped with
at least part of the family'shistory.
(11:24):
Rose then likely sent therevised manuscript back to
Brandt. Despite Rose'srevisions, however, Brandt again
turned it down and told her thememoir wasn't marketable. With
the full manuscript revisions,it isn't clear how involved
Laura was with any of those.
(11:46):
As the summer of 1930 turns intofall, little or no money is
coming in from writing. Thesummer was really hot. Rose is
ready to get out of Rocky RidgeFarm and to get out of town. She
decides to return to New York tobetter address her and her
(12:07):
mother's work. Once there, Rosemeets with her agent Brandt.
Presumably they talk aboutRose's work, including short
stories that she had written orhas in the works. They also
cover the Pioneer Girl memoirand he advises Rose not to try
(12:28):
to sell it. Rose, however,disagrees. In addition to then
firing Brandt as her agent andgetting a new agent, she also
shops around her mother'smemoir. Rose is essentially
acting as literary agent for hermother. Like Brandt, she pursues
(12:49):
magazines and not books. Rosethought that getting a book deal
would be relatively easy butwanted a magazine placement
first. Magazines could paybetter, and if you had a
successful serial published in amagazine, particularly a well
regarded national magazine, itwould only benefit the later
(13:11):
book, both the contractnegotiations and the sale. And
for writers serializing a storyin a national magazine was a way
to get paid for the same worktwice. But Rose, just like her
fired agent, had no success.
(13:33):
She did get some positivecomments from the Saturday
Evening Post but got no contractoffers. The Post essentially
said that while the writing wasgood, they already had something
in their vault that was a lotlike it. They also said that if
the story had used the samematerial as a basis for fiction
(13:57):
instead of memoir, they would bevery interested.
We've already covered the memoirand the memoir revisions, so the
revisions to that Pioneer Girlmanuscript. But Rose did
something else that will provemore central to our story, and I
haven't figured out if she didthis while she was on the farm
(14:20):
in Missouri on Rocky Ridge Farmor later when she comes back to
New York, and it might have beenwhile she was in New York.
But she took excerpts fromPioneer Girl and turned them
into a kid's story focused juston the family's time in
Wisconsin. She might havecollected those stories while
(14:42):
she was editing the manuscript.She had pulled out stories or
parts that seemed too juvenileto keep in a book that was aimed
at adults. Then she took thosestories and formed them, or at
least many of them, into a newjuvenile manuscript. Part of the
motivation had been to preservestories that her grandfather had
(15:06):
told her or had told her mother,and keeping those and packaging
them up was probably prettyattractive both to her and to
Laura.
When she finished this work,that new manuscript was just
over 20 pages typed. And if youread it, it does sound very much
like an early draft, sort of apartial draft, of what would
(15:30):
later become Laura's first book.We are going to leave our story
here for now and pick it back upon the next episode. In that
next episode, Rose has a littlemore work to do, But after that,
the role of the unsung hero ofthis story will shift from her
(15:52):
to Marian Fiery of Alfred A.Knopf Publishing. And in that
episode, we're gonna leavebehind pioneer girl and the
memoir manuscript and insteadshift our attention to this new
juvenile manuscript that Rosehas put together.
(16:15):
For the postscript on this partof our story, I wanna close the
loop on that Pioneer Girlmanuscript. So during Laura's
life, she never gets the PioneerGirl memoir published. It also
isn't published during Rose'slife either. People know it
exists, and even though theLittle House books become quite
(16:38):
popular, no one ever goes outand publishes it. That changes
much more recently in the lastseveral years.
There is a publishing houseconnected with the South Dakota
Historical Society, And theytake up really yeoman's work in
going through the variousmanuscripts, putting together a
(17:03):
book with source material,footnotes, annotations, as well
as pictures and various graphicsand other things that tell the
story of how this book wascreated and how it was written.
If you found this part of ourstory at all interesting or you
(17:24):
wanna learn more about PioneerGirl or Laura Ingalls Wilder's
first writing, I encourage youto look at the book I just
mentioned, Pioneer Girl, theannotated autobiography by Laura
Ingalls Wilder. It was edited byPamela Smith Hill and published
(17:47):
by the South Dakota HistoricalSociety Press in 2014. One of
the interesting things is, asyou probably won't be surprised
to hear, the South DakotaHistorical Society Press is a
pretty small operation.Publishing this book was a
bonanza for them. They sell outof the first printing really,
(18:10):
really quickly. They end uphaving to hire more staff, and
this is really a financial boonfor them. So if you're
interested, it's reallybeautifully made, really well
put together, and prettyinteresting.
Join me next time for anotherepisode of I'll Probably Delete
(18:30):
This where we'll explore morestories of authors,
storytellers, great books, maybeeven serial killers, and the
publishingindustry. Happy Reading
Happy Reading. Thanks everybody.