Ep 1: Dodgy Pilots

Welcome to In the Tank! In this pilot episode we lose our pod-ginity together as we introduce ourselves, discuss the recent changes to 10th edition and answer some fun monkey paw questions about which Space Marine detachments we'd change and why! Support us at patreon.com/IntheTank40K

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the In the Tank podcast. Get ready for an hour of hot 40k goodness coming in your ears. You're in the tank now baby.

(00:14):
We're live. We're live. We're doing live baby. Hello there mate, how you doing? I'm good mate, how are you?
I'm doing great. We are filming this on the eve of a potential change of government. Who knows what's going to happen?
Who knows? It's politics. But this is the first episode aka the pilot episode of In the Tank.

(00:39):
Now why is it called In the Tank, Russ? Well yes, funny enough that was on our part of the itinerary today.
That works for my favour mate, thank you very much. Well to be honest we kind of really need to introduce who we are first.
Nah, fuck that. No one needs to know who we are. No one cares. No go on, say who are you Russ? I've never met you before. What's your jam?

(01:04):
Oh that's a shame man, because I love you. Yeah so I am a 40k enthusiast and a tournament attendee and yeah I love the law.
I also have my own podcast and we're going to be working together a lot more over the next few weeks which is going to be really really fun.
And yeah no it's cool, I'm a Dark Angels enthusiast. Dark Angels enthusiast, you've got fucking Dark Angels pyjamas, bed sheets.

(01:32):
Do you know what? I do actually have a Dark Angels bathrobe. Amazing. That my beautiful wife Mel custom made for me and stitched a Dark Angels iPhone on.
You just drink cream paint and shit terminators. I just literally wake up in the morning and drink more gas bone on tap.

(01:54):
That's what I do, I shot that in my coffee. Yeah no and I've been gaming since technically 2nd ed but more realistically 3rd ed.
You're old. I am fucking old. You're ancient mate. You're a deafening agent.
I wish. I really do wish. But yeah I know since the Temple are 3rd ed cover. And yeah I've been a 40k enthusiast on and off since. I'm also a musician and a guitarist and that's how I counterbalance my absurd geekiness.

(02:28):
How about you lads? Who are you? God where do we begin? I am heralded by many as a minor 40k celebrity due to my involvement on some other minor 40k channels.
I'm trying to break out and do my own thing. If we manage to get a Patreon we need to do an After Dark goss of the 40k. We're not going to do fire flares now. But oh my god you have a lot to discuss.

(02:59):
We have a lot to discuss. Anyway I didn't mean to interrupt you. No you're all good. So I run a little discord community called Try Hard War Gaming and I sort of made that after, it was a few years back I joined Vanguard Tactics which I'm sure many of you have heard of.
Who are they? Who are they? Vanguard Tactics are a sort of academy for learning 40k and I met a good bunch of people in there and we eventually sort of moved on and made our own little place.

(03:27):
We've got a community of just over a thousand members now. It's growing quite a lot. We mainly do online events and meet up around the UK which has been great fun. I've learnt lots about the tournament scene through that which has been cool.
I play Necrons as my main army because I've got a cold dead little heart and a terrible memory so it's perfect for me.

(03:50):
Fantastic analytical brains to be fair. You have a little bit of like, Winsy in there right? Yeah exactly. A little bit of the old, the morning gloss.
Dude I didn't say shit. You carry on. Yeah so that's me and I mean hopefully later this year beyond this podcast which we're starting now obviously we've got another sort of project that we're working on in the background which you will hear more of as it becomes more.

(04:15):
Oh yeah I can't wait for that. That's going to be fantastic. But wait, I've never asked you this question, when did you start the hobby?
So I started, god, I was 13 and I'm 35 now.
Well exactly the same age!
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Many moons ago basically but I mean I dabbled like many in and out over the years and then I always used to, so when I first met my now wife we always used to walk past the Games Workshop in Oxford and I always used to stop and sort of drool at the window looking at things like

(04:44):
Centurions and the baby carriers or the Grey Knights and I was like, oh I just love Centurions. Oh my god, that Oxford store.
Oh it's great mate. And I hadn't played the game for like 10 years at that point just because I've been out of it. And my wife bought me a box of Centurions as the first present she ever got me for Christmas.
And I was like, oh my god, you don't know what you've done.

(05:06):
No!
And now I've got like 15 boxes of Warhammer. The crack has begun.
She literally gave you a box of plastic crack and she had no idea.
That was it, she just hooked me back in and now I'm like, I'm sat here in a room full of paints and boxes of Warhammer and it's a nightmare.
I'm not going to interrupt your origin story there but I am just getting some serious flashbacks of going to that Oxford GW, playing in the fucking Eye of Terror campaign. Oh my god, the 13th Black Crusade. Oh my god, that was so much fun back when they allowed games in the store.

(05:40):
You can't do them in the store anymore, that's rubbish.
Sorry, I just had like literally like a nostalgia hit.
I need to like indulge that.
But I joined the Oxford Outriders, which is their local club and met a few people through that which was great fun and then slowly but surely got back into it and that's when I obviously joined Vanguard Tactics just to try and get a bit better at the game.
And that did really help and then we and then obviously sort of grew beyond that and and did our own thing and we've just been, we've got a sort of a first team which I'm not in, just because I am terrible at the game.

(06:12):
But our first team is doing really well, they're absolutely smashing it so it's good to see, it's lovely to see the community growing and you know enjoy all of that.
One thing I will say is, is getting back into the hobby again after a little bit of a hiatus and also COVID and stuff.
Obviously you get like a bit of a bad rep in like the tournament circuit for everyone, be it sharks or douchebags, I think that's just people that just don't play either in the right tournaments or just don't play actually in tournaments at all because my experience is the complete opposite in as much as I've met some seriously awesome people, including yourself obviously, which will lead us to why this podcast is called this podcast.

(06:55):
But it's been a bit of a revelatory experience for me and I just can't get over how awesome the community is and how fun and kind of, I hate to use the say like dad and mum like the community can be but like everyone's just so cool and you kind of like know people for playing certain
characters or like having certain personalities and stuff and it is just like, it is a proper community by definition of the word community and I just wanted to say I love it really.

(07:26):
It's amazing, I love it too, you know, going to tournaments and stuff I think the whole sort of tournament player thing is a bit of a misnomer if that's the right word but like because everyone sort of thinks that they're, you know, they're gotcha players and you know there's all this drama and I mean 40K community loves a bit of drama.
Oh dude, thrives on it, thrives on it.
But I don't think on the whole are actually that bad like I've only ever had one or two dodgy opponents and we've always sort of made it work and you know on the whole, every experience with most like pretty much every game I've ever had at a tournament has been a good one.

(07:57):
And you meet, as you said, great people, we wouldn't have met if we hadn't gone to the onslaught GT which was fantastic, really well run event that is.
Yeah massive shout out to Michael Kaur that runs those events and this terrain is like, so the coolest, like I seriously man like the terrain at those events just makes me drool but, and that's how we met, like oh my god.

(08:19):
Yeah, we've gone full circle.
Yeah, there we go, see I'm trying to be as professional as possible.
Just keep me on time.
I know if we don't raid each other in we're just going to go off some fucking diatribe or something.
But like, was it day two, it was the first Oxford onslaught right or the second second I think.
Okay, and we yeah I think it was day two, I think we were the morning pairing or something. Yeah, because we both went to a one right or one and two.

(08:47):
Yeah, one, I think.
And then we faced off against each other, and we had one hell of a fun game.
Yeah, I mean I have a bit of hubris against that game for several reasons because I played against a fair few Necron players in my various friendship communities and stuff like that and I was looking at your list and I was like, before you get edge you do you can't help but scope them out a bit and I was like, oh this will be alright, this will be fine.

(09:12):
Yeah easy, push your shit in.
It's like it's fine. And obviously I was playing Dark Angels you were playing Necrons, and you had a really cool like destroyer kind of list right. Heavy destroyers and regular destroyers and stuff.
And of course, your signature unit of the day which was your Lich Guards. This was back when Lich Guards were like as tanky as wraiths are now.

(09:35):
And you fucked me thoroughly because I had hubris out my ass. I did a big psychological play on you.
I didn't even realise it because I met you and I was like this guy seems really cool. Like he's really cool and yeah like I love your colour scheme, your colour scheme ace because you got the really cool orangey vibes on your colour scheme which is fantastic.

(09:56):
And your army looks amazing by the way.
I'll tongue your arse a little bit.
Thank you.
But like I came in with double hubris because I thought it would be an easy, well not an easy win but I thought it would be a nice win for me to start off my second day.
And I was like cool I've got my Desolation Marines I'm going to fucking annihilate, I'm just going to systematically annihilate all of your units one by one.

(10:22):
And then you were like, you said I can't remember what your exact words were but I was like, I was just going to take your Lich Guard out and you're like do it then.
And I went all fucking, for one second I'm normally pretty good at like holding my ego in check but for like one millisecond I was like, fuck you, alright then, like, alright.
Damn it, I will.

(10:44):
You're holding me to change. It was like you were like, you kind of went a bit glassy eyed and I think you knew, like you were like I'm going to fuck this guy.
And it was like, you just went alright then. And I was like, oh, okay, this might not be as easy as I think this is going to be. And basically we played like a really fun fucking game where we had really great bants, like the bants were like this, like a lesser version of this.

(11:12):
And like, I think going through the game I kind of came to conclusion that I was like, oh this guy is really sound and like, this is way harder than I thought. And then of course like my ultimate hubris was underestimating Lich Guard and just getting bogged down in fucking Lich Guard.
I just wouldn't die, I remember.
It was great fun.
For fuck's sake. And my destination Marines were doing well but you were doing really well at like out positioning them and like getting out of position with them.

(11:39):
Yeah, so I mean, the name of this podcast is about to come into sort of.
Yeah, sorry.
Basically there was a moment in the game where you had your 10 Desolation Marines and this is when you could take them in 10 mans and they were just awful like and you had full rerolls from OZ basically.
I mean you call them awful, I call them fucking amazing.
And then you had them, but they were sat in the middle of the like your side of the table, and basically anything that I put within 24 inches of them was just going to get Overwatch and blown away. So, I had to, I sat there and I was like, right Russ, I'm going to take a few minutes here to think.

(12:14):
Put the clock on me, I'm gonna take a few minutes and then I just went in the tank. And you were just like looking at me, and I was sat there, you know that like GIF from the, from what's it called the hangover when he like all the sort of numbers come up around his head.
That's basically what happened.
So in Ed's mind, so in Ed's mind he was like doing this epic like fucking like threat analysis, going through like where, and I'm just there in real time just like, am I gonna fucking call a TO?

(12:41):
Is he having a stroke?
Is he okay? And I'm like every now and again, like every like minute or so I'm like, are you alright mate? And you're like, yeah, yeah.
And then I think what knocked you out of it was like the TO was like an hour left or something and then you were like, oh fuck. And then you were like, right, I better like get my shit together. And it was honestly like five minutes, I swear to God.
It was like a really long time. I'm just sat there like glassy eyed with that.

(13:05):
And I was so torn because on one hand I was like, this guy's really fucking sound. And in my position, if I was doing the same, I'd want my opponent to be respectful and not be a dick, right?
And yeah, at the same time I was like, what the fuck is happening here? Like, what's going on? To your credit, you made the right call and you won the game. And I think it was like 20 VP in it.

(13:29):
It wasn't crazy. Like, had one decision been made different on either side, I think it would have swung it.
But I think that it was more the surrealness of like that event. And like, and then I kind of just, I just thought you were sound. I just like, like, I don't know. From that point on, I was like, yeah, that guy's really, really cool.
And then since I've been bumping into you, very likely, the answer, Oxford answer afterwards.

(13:56):
We didn't actually get to play with some rubbish. I was really devastated.
I know. I was kind of like, we were very neck, we were neck and neck again. We actually almost paired. We were two points away from each other and we paired the other way instead of each other, which was rubbish. I was so sad about it.
And you were a bit, one thing I will say is I did almost lose my shit with you at one point because

(14:20):
So because we were very similar in the standings, we were like back to back, some tables and shit. And I was playing against this really cool world eaters players. So sorry if you hear this, but I can't remember your name, but I will.
I rule like if ever I see you in an event, I'll be sad to you because you were hilarious. I like it was the first time I played. Well, shut up.

(14:43):
I'm like, I just deployed way too fucking far forward. You had like infiltrator sending on your terminators and you just put them right across the middle of the board. And I was like, that was a bowl move.
Fuck you. Let me explain. So I'm playing like Vanguard because at that point the Dark Angels Codex hadn't come out and even if it had, I probably would have played Vanguard Disaster anyway.
And the Trump card that I was playing all event was to like infiltrate in a massive block of 10 terminators and get the alpha strike on turn one. Just cause so much hassle.

(15:15):
It like fucked a Necron player up in my previous game. He was running like the Katan suite or whatever. Right.
And I was really confident about it. And I just got cocky and I was like, if I get fucking turn one and I like pin the World Eaters player into the corner, that would be so much fun. And I could just dominate like literally like fuck around the objectives and just walk it.

(15:37):
Right. And I didn't. And I deployed way too far forward and he got first turn and just proceeded to charge me and fucking wreck my face.
Cause I remember turning around at one point and I was like, what's up Russ? Where's all your army? Why the World Eaters all in your deployment zone? That's turn two, isn't it?
I think you're coming at this a little bit too balanced where you actually turned around and be like, bro where's your army? You're a bit too far forward. Oh, bro.

(16:04):
I was just like, oh my fucking God. I wanted to die. I literally wanted to die. I loved you so much. But in that moment I was like, I want to fucking kill you.
But then the problem was my humor has got the better of me because I was whining you up all game and then I turned around and got my shit pushed in in the next game.
This is Shakespearean irony that in the process of you being such a twat, like, well not really. I do appreciate your humor, but just in that one moment I was like, oh for fuck's sake. But like you got your fucking ass handed to you.

(16:36):
And I don't even know if we, I might have finished like on the same wins in you or like higher than you.
I think we were either higher or the same. Yeah, I think we were higher.
I was floating over the fact that I was like, ah, see there you go. That's what you get for being a douche. But like, but it was funny, man. It was great fun.
But no, so that's, that's obviously the origin of where we met, where the name comes from, because it was me just being in the tank trying to basically, don't you, I'm not, you know, I'm slow sometimes when I play.

(17:05):
It takes me a second to do sometimes. But basically the reason I've taken so long was because I had to plan out that entire turn to try and avoid the Overwatch on the unit I needed to kill them with. And that was what took me so long to figure out, because I had to bait the Overwatch out, which I managed to do in the end and then I could kill them.
But it took me so long to figure out that it was like a proper puzzle that one.
It was the right thing to do because you did win the game like convincingly and like, you know, absolutely. We've all been there, man. I was sweating bullets at the end of that game. I was running out of time because I'd used so much time in the tank.

(17:37):
Yeah. It was great game. Good fun. It was fun. It was really good fun. But like, since that moment, I was like, oh, that guy's wicked. And like literally, whenever I go to an event, I know you're out. I'm like, where is he? Where is that? Yeah. Likewise. I'm always looking for you.
You're like my favorite. You're like, I don't know, this sounds really perverted, but like when you're excited about like when you were a kid about like your favorite present on Christmas Day and you just want to like.

(18:05):
You want to unwrap me? Yeah.
And like grab you. That's what I'm about. I'm just going to be under your tree and a bow and that's it.
To the point where I loved my Oxford GT experience, but without you being there was it did hurt my soul a little bit. Yeah, I couldn't make one of them. Could I recently? I can't remember why, but definitely going to go there again if I can for the next one.

(18:28):
Yeah, and you know, like as a precursor for the future, like I think there's going to be quite a few more games involving you. So that will be so that's all I can say on that subject. But like, you know, there's a lot potentially on the horizon there.
I love the name of the part because it's a reference to that as a reference to when we first met and it's also a double entendre too. So like, it's like, well, let's say they call it a double entendre. And as much as obviously the in the tank meaning and also the fact that you could actually physically get in a tank.

(18:58):
There you go. It's very 40k sounding. So yeah, fantastic.
So the next topic very quickly before we get onto the big subjects. What are you working on project wise me what you what are you doing right now. So I'm working on a couple of things for hypercrete like necrons got a monolith and about 400 pieces in front of me that I've been painting, which is fun.
I'm one of the coolest. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to running it because I've never. So I ran. I ran a monolith a few years ago LGT or before they were cool.

(19:27):
This is such a trendsetter. They have the green part of the green crystal. Yeah, yeah, I was the master of monolith.
So I actually went three two with LGT and it was rubbish back then.
But that was back when you could like dump 10 Lich Guard out of it and do like a three inch charge without having to spend any CP. It's great.

(19:48):
You have to do it in hyper crypt and spend CP to do that now and let's go out of poopy. But yeah, so I'm looking forward to getting out on the table. Big boy. What about yourself. What are you working on.
It's obvious what I'm going to be working on.
I'm looking at is a unit of 10 definitely is all with chain fists ready to chew up some anti I love I love this.

(20:19):
And yeah, I'm currently like working on a terminator themed Dark Angels Army. I know I'm looking forward to playing against it. Great. That's fun. Yeah, no.
I'm trying to make it work because that was my signature.
I think that I'm most excited for for you personally is that the lion is now the Kool-Aid guy and he can just bust through walls. Oh, yeah.

(20:45):
Well, funny you should mention that my man because we need to discuss the massive changes in regards to what's been going on.
You know, essentially, yeah terminators for me like like getting through terminators get through awesome gladiator Lancer that I'm working on or gladiator Sasha.
I can't say the word Sasha Sasha like what's the name of like a vehicle body.

(21:12):
Oh, got home. No Sasha is like this is hilarious. My wife constantly talks to me about this because I am really bad at pronouncing words.
Like you've got a vehicle frame.
Oh, chassis. That's the word I'm trying to say.
And I was like, well, like a little packet.

(21:33):
He's shaking out loads of terminators.
Working on my gladiator Sasha.
Sasha.
I can't say.
That's a deathwing theme one and it has chunks of lions on it. And he said to me, I'll send you a picture of it.
Do you just have a random box of like liony bits like tree like liony bits like not even dark ages bits but like random things like Ravens and fucking like this.

(22:04):
I was like, yes, I do.
Yeah, so we're on that. So we'll be playing that against each other. I'm sure.
So the big news, man, like 1010.5. Yes, we can.
What, dude, like they just dropped that and everyone's gone. Oh my god, that in combination with like the Knackman's mission deck.

(22:29):
Is it Knackman? Oh god, Pyronexus. Oh, sorry. I'm taking a bloody nine. It's alright.
Pyronexus, fuck it out. Warhammer's way too complicated. It can't keep up sometimes.
Yeah, dude. Wow. Big changes, bro. Like, there's so much to talk about here. But should we talk about like the big ones, right?

(22:52):
So obviously there's been some massive core rule, core rule updates, including the sore spot for a lot of people, which is pivoting.
How do we feel about pivoting? Pivot. Yeah, no, I love it. I'm actually, I think it's a good change.
I think it comes from a good place. But I think the problem with it is, is that, you know, as we know, it's kind of allowed a couple of silly instances to occur. But I think that they'll probably figure out a way to fix those.

(23:24):
Okay, so I'm going to play devil's advocate. Did it need to change? I mean, no. But at the same time, I think it's quite nice that people with circular bases don't need to be doing Pythagoras theory stuff in the middle of a battle.
So I get that. It's nice not to have to be really accurate with your movement to that extent, because I did it yesterday in a game where I had a triarch stalker, and I basically walked it out, took my two inches pivot and then walked it again.

(23:53):
And it was so easy. It didn't require much brainpower, which is sure. Is it true, however, that certain units may gain distance as a result of this?
Like if I've got a doomsday arc, and I put it on my deployment line, and then pivot it, it's definitely gaining like an inch or so of movement because it's going from like, you know, flat to forward.

(24:19):
Is this going to be a problem with things like greater demons and shit?
You see greater demons are all on round bases, generally speaking, aren't they?
I thought the first one was on an oval base, bro.
Maybe he is. I don't know. Look it up. But I mean, oval bases still take two to pivot. I think it's just easier because you can get things like wings through gaps now without having a problem.

(24:41):
It's just, it's always been a bit of a point.
Okay, right. I will come at this from two angles.
Number one, I'm happy in a way because it makes something less ambiguous, which is always good because people are going to like want to cheat the system a little bit and mess with stuff.

(25:02):
But for me, it philosophically goes against the concept of what the beginning of 10th was kind of all about, which was the, what was the stupid tagline? It was like, simplified, not simple.
Yeah, right. That is no longer the case anymore. Right.
Like you've got a three page or three paragraph rule system in regards to like vehicle pivoting rules now.

(25:27):
That's a lot. Right. And to try to explain that, I mean, I suppose on kitchen tables, it's not going to fucking matter anyway because people are going to play how they want to play.
But like, even so, it's quite a complicated rule to like spin to people and pivot to people.
So that's where we need a soundboard, bro. Yeah.

(25:52):
Yeah, I don't know. I just, I think that philosophically it goes against what 10th kind of feels like. But then it is 10.5 now, right? We're kind of moving on a bit.
So I mean the mantras kind of change from simplified, not simple to complicated, not complex.
Pitch it. Yeah. Pitch it. I'll ring them up.

(26:15):
You're like, I've got it. Great. That's it. You should be on their marketing team.
Oh, 100% mate.
We'll have a community post.
God, imagine my tweets. You think theirs get them into trouble.
I think it'd be great. I think it's great. Like just call out ourselves. Yeah, cool. So pivoting. Interesting. Yeah. Any final thoughts on pivoting? We like it.

(26:36):
I think it's, I think the heart of the change is in the right place.
I think they need to do some tweets to it to stop the whole extra inches on the charge coming out of deep strike and stuff.
Because like if you're on a Raider or a monolith, you can turn it and get a couple of extra inches.
I agree purely because it just feels a little bit of usable. But yeah, okay. I'm willing to be a convert in regards to the pivoting rule.

(26:58):
Like I can, I can. I converted you. Yeah, go on then. I'll let you have it. I'll let you have it.
Like I'm yet to really experience it firsthand, to be fair. So I'm just literally being a mouthpiece for the grievances of the community right now.
No, it's cool. Okay, that's fine. A rule that I've really enjoyed reading that I'm going to probably enjoy the shit out of is the Primark Kool-Aid rules.

(27:24):
Which when you read that to me, because it was weird because we were actually on a Skype call.
We were, yeah. When the rules dropped. When the rules dropped and I was like, oh yeah, which is like Primark's right. Can walk through fucking ruins.
Hang on, that's right. You weren't like, oh yeah, I was on the phone. I sat there. I went, hang on a minute.
The lion can go through walls and I just heard you just bust the biggest nut down the front.

(27:47):
You're like, ah, because you've been playing the lion when he was shit and expensive and now he's a baller.
Excuse me, the lion just never shits. He's awesome. He's always been awesome.
Yeah, like, okay, this is over the top, a mini cannot learns right. But like I have died on the hill of the lion being good even at 350 points and not being able to move from walls and stuff.

(28:09):
Where I have just been debating on like various groups that the lion is still great.
Okay, maybe not like quote unquote optimal. I still think he's awesome.
But it's very cool that we have this rule that like characters like the lion or Gilliman or whatever can move through ruins.
I mean, it seems obvious to me. It's just like what can do it now. He's got his own little special rule for that as well.

(28:33):
He's been, which is cool. He's cool. He can like crap like crawl over the top of it.
Exactly. So, um, so that's cool. Are there any other major rule change there that we need to like?
I mean, there's loads of little things and I think the prior Nexus deck, by the way, like if you wanted to move on to talking about that, like I played it yesterday.

(28:56):
It's really good. I much prefer secret missions to gambits. Yeah, doable, which is good and can pull you back because if you think about it in some games, your opponent will get a bit of a lead on you and you just can't get the primary.
Right. But when you do a secret mission and you do it at the end of turn three and you have to be below your opponent's primary score with your primary score to be able to do one.

(29:20):
So you select one, let's say, and let's say you've gone second, all of a sudden, you can still score up to 20 primary, even when you selected a secret mission.
You're capped at 20. So what you do is you basically at the end of that game, you just do your secret mission, run out onto the objectives or whatever, score a ton of primary, putting you to 40 if you score and then you just bang ahead.

(29:41):
Not to interrupt you there, buddy. But do you mean that you're capped at 20 for primaries then?
Yeah. So you can never score 50 on primary. You can only score 40 max and 20 of those comes from completing the secret mission and 20 of those comes from any primary you score even before or after you selected the secret mission.
Right. I imagine that's going to be amazing for factions that want to play around secondaries that aren't very good at holding objectives in the midfield.

(30:09):
Yeah. Because I mean, if you've got like a really killy army, for example, like if I was playing my hyper crypt necrons and I want to kind of jump up and down around the edges of the board and shoot you, I'm not necessarily going to be scoring huge amounts of primary unless I've got a couple of katana on one of the objectives, for example.
Yeah. I just try and wipe you out and then at the end of the game, come back with a secret mission and then just, you know, same with like a faction I imagine like Dark Eldar, something that like dancing around the field getting secondaries and then need to like get a chunk of points from somewhere else or yeah, no, there's bound to be loads of factions.

(30:41):
I like it. I think they did a much better job this time around coming from someone that loves like sitting on primaries and go and like get me off that slightly worries me because I'm going to have to like try and anticipate what my opponent's gambit is going to be.
It's one of four, right? It's one of four secret missions and you I mean, they obviously you know what the four potential ones are.
So you see your opponent starting to make a play for like, yeah, whatever it is, you can think, you know, actually I need to defend this a bit better. But it's cool. I think it's a good good way of, you know, getting that catch up.

(31:13):
I have a question for you as well.
I haven't played the new PN deck yet. How important are battle line units really like is going to be a situation where lists that don't run them are going to be completely fucked or is it a case of if you run a couple then you're obviously going to have some significant advantages over people that don't.

(31:36):
I think some factions that can manipulate battle line units, for example, again, hypercrip netcons, you know, being able to just pick them up and put them in your opponent's deployment zone or something.
Yeah, and five.
That's very good things that just run loads of battle line like GSC, etc. That just all their stuff is is like the web main foot troops a battle line you know that's great for them as well.

(31:58):
I don't think you necessarily need it but I think a lot of like mission packs like tournament mission packs are probably going to be running the, because you have to chilling rain doesn't exist anymore.
So you have to run some kind of special rules for each mission. A lot of them are using the, like the advanced and action for battle line or the, you know, being out of action in melee.

(32:21):
And also, there's one where you the raise the banners right. Yes, raise the banners as well, which is only like three points max generally over the course of a game but it's still three points it could matter.
But yeah, I do think I do think they're good. I do think if you can include a decent useful battle line unit like for me or be immortal, for example, then do it, but if you, you know, it's not going to destroy your game plan if you can't.

(32:45):
Yeah, because I'm looking at my list and I'm like, I, to be honest, I'm, you know, points are like so tight these days that you're like, can I justify some battle line units to make use of those rules and I think having something that's cheap and effective
I can do I mean for space marines the obvious one is like so ancestors and stuff that are really good that you can just like literally and to be honest, I quite get it like controlling objectives where they will probably kill medium to light stuff that holds objectives and stuff like to at the same time you're not going to be crazily penalized if you don't run battle line units, which I think is actually probably a really good way of like counterbalancing the craziness that is 10th edition list building where I don't think we've had it so good.

(33:32):
In terms of like making crazy lists ever really is the fucking wild west. It's really cool. I mean, on one hand, I'm like, you get these really skewed lists which, you know, feel a little bit anti narrative, but on the other hand, it's like, it's really cool to not have to abide by some sort of annoying detachment

(33:56):
kind of prequisite that makes you have to run certain things. Yeah, it's nice that you can just run whatever in the detachments because sometimes you want to be able to take things that you wouldn't previously been able to take for example. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. I think also the the secondary is actually built into list building in a way which I quite like. So for example, if your opponent draws, bring it down, and you don't have any vehicles or all your vehicles are in reserves, they can just get rid of it and draw another card.

(34:25):
Which is actually kind of a bad thing for you because what you would love to have is like a little sub 10 we in vehicle, like a reanimator for Necron sat somewhere so they can't redraw the secondary and it's impossible for them to score it. So then they have to spend a CP to redraw it. So that all like color hoard is another one if you can have like a color hoard unit, you know, yeah, they can't redraw it. That's a really interesting point there actually like I'll give you that like that is actually quite fascinating. And I think that's a really interesting point.

(34:52):
That's actually quite fascinating. And I think the dynamic you've kind of touched on that too of the fact that now you can ditch a secondary every time means that anything that will give you consistent CP is going to be a really important unit.
So that's it. Because I was looking at my list and I was like, for Dark Angels, especially like Azrael is like, tends to be okay. But now even now he's like even more important now where it's like I need that CP every turn to like throw that into my secondary bin so I can dig for something else, if needed, right?

(35:28):
Like, yeah, I mean, there's several ways that, you know, lists are going to be changed going forwards. But I think it's going to be really fun to see what changes are on the horizon and breathe a little bit of life into 10, not that it's getting stale, but like, you always find that people that play a lot or whatever, but by the sort of first third or quarter of an edition there, people have cracked things and it's now just like codex waiting now.

(35:55):
Yeah, but I feel like you know, there's been some really cool updates there. And of course, there was some new unit updates, lest we forget. Yeah, it's been major changes.
Deathwing Knights got sick! Oh my god! You went up to two damage on your weapons, didn't you? I fucking predicted that shit as well. I was well proud of myself. You were like, I really hope they go to two damage and then I was like, oh, look, they've got to two damage. You were already covered in yoga at that point from hearing about the lion getting through walls.

(36:20):
Well, I just love covering yoga. I just love that the mace is anti monster, anti vehicle for up. I'm just like, that's hot. And you know, the Silent King, did the Silent King get better?
So they changed the Silent King in a really good way that I've been wanting for ages, which is that they finally made his men ears not characters because the problem with them before was, yeah, pick assassination as a fixed option and then just kill the men ears and then let them regen and kill them again.

(36:49):
And it's just like a way of farming points, which is annoying. But yeah, so they're finally no longer do they finally explode, which they fixed ages ago, and no longer do they finally are their characters. So yeah, the King's in the best place he's ever been, I think.
Long live the King. I've just sexied mine right up as well. Mate, oh my god, your Silent King is stunning. We're gonna have to get my lion and your Silent King on a first point because holy shit, bro, you outdone yourself for that one, mate. It's stunning.

(37:17):
He's stunning. I'm happy with him. For sure. Well done. Well done. Hobby game there, my man.
So yeah, so very quickly before we move on to the cool lore subject to finish today.
What are your predictions for cool factions going forward? Like what factions are going to dominate? If you have to choose like one or two factions that you think are going to be amazing in the next coming two or three months, what are you going to choose?

(37:46):
So I think Blood Angels still seem like they're in a really strong position. They've just got like lots of rerolls out their ass. They've you know, they're really strong with all their extra strength on the charge, etc. And those dreadnoughts they've got, they can just infinitely fight. I don't know if you've seen that.
Yeah, those things are fun. Yeah, and they get like plus two to charge when they come out of when they charge a monster or vehicle, I think. Yeah. So they can just deep strike seven inch you which is really fun. And then just get mad. So yeah, they're pretty cool. I like them. I think leaks of Votan now that they've got an infiltrating unit is actually really good. And they are like,

(38:22):
Oh, those are cool new guys. They're cool with their fucking trench coat. They're proper shaggers. They look really cool. I have not at all been into Votan at all. Yeah, but those models are the coolest motherfuckers. They just look like something from Sigma or something. Yeah, they're great. They're just like big D fucking long coated mofos.

(38:43):
I think the reason that's so important for Votan is because one of the easiest ways to mess up a Votan opponent was basically to put infiltrators of your own in front of their scout news. And then the little scouts can't go anywhere, which is just losing so much.
So now I suppose you push that forward, right? Yeah, you put your infiltrators out to stop them putting theirs. Obviously that might not happen because you have to sort of do with who's deploying first and stuff. But it gives them a chance, right? And it's better than nothing.

(39:10):
So that's really cool. I like I like these Votan. What else? I'm just trying to think how else is really I think Necrons are still decent. I think people are starting to be more hyper quick now. I think I think Necrons have always got their player base. Yeah. And they always do pretty solid. Yeah. Like, you know, they might win an event or they might come like top four in an event. And they're always just like consistently good because, you know, you're the quality of Necron players are at a point where they're just, you know, solid as fuck.

(39:39):
And then Knights of God in power, which I think is a good one. So yeah, that will be interesting to see more Knights players kicking around. And you need to obviously check that with your own army list and stuff like that as well. And demons again have also got some more play. I think Dark Angels are pretty crap.
I will remind you of that. That's your opinion. That's your opinion. Do you know who I am really interested to see? Although their points cost, I think needs to be ironically readjusted again is sisters. Yeah, they say they're pretty strong at the minute. I know they've got a massive points nerf when they came out, but I think they're pretty decent.

(40:24):
Yeah, well, their rules are really cool. Like, I really loved the, the penitent host army one. That's just fun. I think that's going to be really fun to play against and to play as. I also think that double Miracle Dice army is is potentially busted.
Yeah, we're like manipulating Miracle Dice like that. And when the realms of like Eldari at the beginning of the edition, not quite as bad, I don't think. But like, but I think in a dice game, if you have any way to manipulate dice scores, that tends to be an inherently strong mechanic.

(41:02):
However you do it. So I think they're a little bit over costed at the moment. But I think if given in the hands of a really good sisters player, I wouldn't be surprised if you see sisters players do really well at events.
For sure. I think the thing is, sisters, I don't think many people play them in the ground. Yeah, because they're really hard hobby army they're all really fiddly and tiny and there's a detail on them. Oh my god, the detail. I actually have sisters army and I had to take like a breather because I was like, Oh my god, I can't. I did my chunky creamy boys. I can't do this. I can't pay another fucking charub or Joey.

(41:45):
Oh my god. And of course the other one, I don't know how, how impactful this army has actually been on 10, but the old bully boy green tidy style fucking orc lists as well right. Yeah, I mean, they got a little bit of a nerf.
I think they lost their reroll ones to their saves and I think they're now just with the five up involved, which is, you know, when they're over a certain amount models, which is still really good. I think that was for the green tide and then the bully boys, they obviously lost the four up for no pain on their mega knobs, going down to a five I think.

(42:17):
And I think they got some little bit of points. That's still not too bad. I mean, it's still good right. I think you'll still see them about because there's a good bunch of people that play orcs and I think there are, I think people from what I'm sort of seeing a trending more towards the index detachment now.
Yeah.
Yeah, we'll see what happens.
And of course you've got potential other, what would be fringe armies like Thousand Suns. Yeah, Grey Knights potentially still being quite effective. Still very effective. But yeah, who knows, like, I think the meta is more up in the air than it's ever been. Yeah.

(42:52):
There's a good amount of power generally speaking. I think most factions seem to be in that Goldilocks zone now, which this is what they push forward GW. Yeah, that's good. We'll see. Well, you know, the next sort of couple of months of tournament results will tell us, won't they?
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's gonna be really interesting when we next, you know, when we're doing the pod over the next like, you know, six weeks is gonna be interesting to analyze some like lists from some really good players and stuff like that and say, cool.

(43:24):
Last thing I've got a secret law question for our final segment.
Space Marine Legion, technically 18 Space Marine Legions. Yeah. If you could remove one for whatever reason, which Space Marine Legion would it be and why?
You don't know how tempted I am just to say Dark Angels just to annoy you.

(43:45):
The thing is, I know you like the Dark Angels. I do, I actually collect them. I've got loads of them as well. Oh, you don't really collect them though, do you?
I mean, not like you collect them. I don't sleep on a bed of terminators like a dragon. If you didn't cream at the Death of Gersot box.
I just sleep in a giant obsidian sarcophagus.

(44:07):
I just rise from it. I have been in the tank too long.
So if I had to remove a Legion. And honestly, like, like for whatever reason, whether it's you don't like them or you think they're repeated throughout the thing.
Should I give you mine? You give me yours. I'll have a thing. So this is interesting, right? Because there are legions that I dislike in theory more than this one.

(44:35):
I'm not a massive fan of like the Sons of Horus or the Black Legion, especially the Black Legion. I think the Black Legion are fucking arseholes. I ironically love the Lunar Walls kind of scheme and like what they were all about.
They're very cool. Yeah, they are very cool.
I like that greeny blue.
I don't know about the powdery white vibes, but like whatever. I think the Raven Guard are so fucking not important. Sorry Raven Guard.

(45:06):
Our audience of two, one of them's just laughing.
I just think that your skill set is repeated over so many legions, right? Especially during the 30k era where like you're not as sneaky as the Alpha Legion.
You are not as interesting as any of the other legions. Your Primarch is, apart from ironically now, a cool demon crow god guy that's hunting down lore guard.

(45:34):
There's just nothing about the Raven Guard that I really like that much. And during 30k, they didn't really do fucking that much. I know they got Izzvan, right?
They got Izzvan.
They didn't really do much. They got Izzvan and then they kind of just like dosed around and there was a bit where like some gene seed shit, right? Where they kind of, and they got all of it warp crow-y and it's all a bit My Chemical Romance-y.

(46:06):
Right? They got the shit hair cut. I know.
And this is ironic coming from a movie Dark Angels point, but they're just so tri-army. I just don't get it. I just don't. I mean, you need a sneaky legion, but you've got that in the form of the Alpha Legion and kind of like, you know, to some extent, the Night Lords as well.

(46:27):
I just think they're repeated too much. They're just a little bit boring and they did fucking horrible job.
Do you? Okay. Well, shall I just say remove Night Lords from the game because GW has been trying to do it with their fucking rules for them for the past four years.
So why don't we just get rid of them and then just start them again and do them well this time.
Okay. Wow. Fucking hell. You went, you were like, where's the machine?

(46:50):
So I fucking love Night Lords and GW are just, they're just pussy-footing around. They're like, oh, Battleshot's going to be the most amazing new rule. And they're like, actually.
This is the irony between being a Dark Angels player inherently. I have to hate the Night Lords, right? I just have to.
But I understand why they exist. The Raven Guard to me have no reason to exist.

(47:12):
Yeah. I mean, I think the Raven Guard could be done better for sure.
Yeah. No shit. Like, apart from just like listening to Linkin Park and like fucking...
Cut my life into pieces.
There's a path of rope, but we'll take it. Yeah. And just like pondering fucking life's great mysteries and then disappearing for like fucking a thousand years and no one gives a shit anyway.

(47:35):
Like, fuck you, Korra. I don't know. Like, whatever. But like, go on then. Who's going to be your...
It's really hard because I really like a lot of them.
Right? It's hard, isn't it?
It's really hard, yeah. I mean, the sons of Horus, I'd probably get rid of them because I'm not that bothered with them.
If there's one Legion that I don't really have much love for, it's probably them.

(47:59):
Right. Really, they were my number two choice. And my reason was you have the word bearers.
Yeah, the word bearers are cool.
You have your villainous. Right?
Like, essentially Horus just seems to be a puppet of like the word bearers.
Yeah.
I like... Just have the fucking word bearers.

(48:21):
They're just so much cooler, right? They've got all like...
You don't need like that figurehead, right? You just don't. Just have them systematically corrupt.
Like, you get a Horus fan that's like, no, fuck you. Horus is the best. But Horus is the most boring Primarch or Primarch. Like, fight me.

(48:42):
Like, ironically, the Horus that I think is the most interesting Horus is the Horus before he fell, right?
Yeah, for sure.
But as soon as he becomes that mustache twirling dick, like, that's it.
I just don't like him that much as a villain because I feel like... I feel almost like... It was a weird one.
It's almost like his becoming a villain was kind of out of his control a little bit.

(49:05):
I know that it wasn't technically, but it was just a... It was all orchestrated and it was all just a bit like... I don't know.
But it was the self-fulfilling prophecy, right? Of him like looking into the future and despairing at the fact that it was his super ego,
that like secret super ego that like there's no statues or anything dedicated to him in what is ironically now our 40k setting.

(49:27):
But because he was a fucking traitor and led the Horus heresy and all that shit, like, I just think you got played, son.
And there's just like no interesting elements to his personality. There just isn't.
Apart from his nobility and like his charisma and his like, you know, an asthma to like some of the more moody Primarchs that are really not people people.

(49:49):
Yeah. Or sleepy Primarchs like yours.
Yeah, well, yeah, like the lion. Bless him. I love the lion. But like being a people person is not his strong point, right?
Not even kind of Dawn really or like any of the big Sigmar-esque Primarchs that are like, don't talk to me.
Do you know what I mean? Like Korraks, you could argue, right? Like all of those guys, they're just like moody bastards that just want to be left alone to do what they want to do.

(50:16):
But like, I don't know. It's an interesting one, right?
It is a really good question. I actually think, funnily enough, the lion's sort of growth in his rules over the last few months, you know, over Tenth Edition have kind of mirrored him waking up in a way, because he would be a bit doggy, right?
And then he's like, hang on a minute, I can just walk through this wall. I'm a goddamn Primarch.

(50:37):
Oh shit, I can walk through walls. What the fuck is going on?
What's wrong with me?
I mean, yeah, and yeah, he's the best Primarch and I will fight anyone. Like literally.
I thought you would.
I would. I would actually do it. I'd be like, it'd be like fucking Brandy Marsh. I'd be like, you want to go?
I'll come outside as the Oxford Onslaught GT and you'll be out there like throwing fists at someone. But what's happening, Russ? You'd be like, you dissed the lion.

(51:03):
Like a lion. Like a prick. But it's weird, just to go back to Horace very quickly, like what I find really interesting about Horace is like he's a character that you know needs to die in order to like make the setting a better setting, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. There was another character like that, who is of course the blessed hawk boy, the god of all Primarchs, Sandwineus.

(51:27):
Yeah.
But we all love Sandwineus.
Because he was cool.
Yeah. And that's my point is like, again, Sandwineus doesn't really have that much impact on the modern day setting. Okay, minus some like trippy dreamy bullshit and stuff, right?
But I think as a community, apart from a few oddballs, we all love Sandwineus.
Yeah.

(51:48):
Yet we don't all love Horace for the same sort of reasons.
Do you think there's a writing reason behind that? Do you think that Horace wasn't written as well in the books that he's been present in as other Primarchs?
I don't know, because I actually think he was quite interesting during the early days of the Horace heresy, right? And like, it'd be interesting when we get a final Primarch book on him, because obviously the Primarch book like focuses on them pre-Herasy and stuff like that.

(52:13):
I think that might actually be really interesting if we get a more human look at Horace like internally, where he's like wrestling with his responsibilities or like, you know, coming to terms with the fact that he's a favorite or whatever.
Like, I don't know, but I just think he's just very one note for what is quite a complicated setting and like all the jokes about, you know, the Primarch situation being like daddy issues and stuff, right?

(52:40):
For the vast majority of them, it is kind of true. And like, I just feel like he's very one note compared to like how vastly Shakespearean a lot of the Primarchs are.
And...
There's some great stories with all the Primarchs.
Oh, fuck yeah. And this is why this was such a hard thing about removing one of the legions from the setting, because they all kind of have a role to play and they all have a time in the spotlight and they all kind of cool.

(53:06):
But like, yeah, I think the Mournaval are the most interesting aspects of that, right? And you've got like Garvey O'Loken and Torgadon and little Horace and stuff like that.
And of course, Abaddon slash Abaddon, right?
Yeah, however you say it.
Right? And like they're all way more interesting characters. Like Garvey O'Loken's the coolest and he wasn't even the fucking proper son of Horace anyway. So I don't know. It's interesting.

(53:38):
Yeah, it's a great setting. I love it. Like, it's one of the things that makes me really want to play Marines, but they're just such a wide codex. We were discussing this the other day.
Yeah.
When you get into Marines, you are chained for life to that faction. You stay on that desk painting forever.
Yeah, I feel like that. I feel like I'm going insane.
Yeah.
And it's even worse for Dark Angels because...

(54:00):
You've got even more stuff.
Well, we're one of the more popular sub-factions of Space Marines, but fucking Dark Angels are three armies in one army.
Yeah, you are, literally.
You've got the Green Wind Deathwing and the Ravenwing. When we do fucking mounted units better than the White Scars do, which I think is hilarious. I'm so sorry, White Scars, but I love White Scars.
But like the fact that we're better at that than they are and that is the whole schtick is kind of fucked up. But like, I don't know, man. Like it is a dedication.

(54:29):
So here's a question back at you. If you could revamp any one Legion from a rules perspective in the game currently, just give them some proper juice and a little supplement or whatever, which Legion would it be and why is it Noisemarines and all that lot?
Empress Children.
Well, I think you answered that question there and then. I mean, I'm not a massive Empress Children fan per se. I think they're like a bunch of fucking assholes in the law. But again, we need villains, right?

(55:00):
Yeah.
But like, mechanically, I think they're the coolest fucking... Like to have like a load of like Noisemarines with like eight Eastland metal fucking guns just like mowing people down is just the coolest shit.
But I think you've hit the nail on the head with some of the traitory kind of Legions in a way.

(55:21):
Sorry, go on.
No, you go first.
I was going to say, I actually think like if we split this into a traitor and a loyalist, right? Let's do that because that makes it easier.
This is why you're my guy because that's exactly what I was thinking and I have an answer for you for both.
Go on.
So my loyalist one, and it's because my second favorite loyalist chapter is the... Well, Legion chapter is the White Scars.

(55:45):
I think the White Scars have needed some decent rules in regards to like tripty movement forever.
Whether it's stratagems that allow them to like move in your opponent's turn.
Like similar to what they do as a reaction in 30k.
I think that'd be awesome. Like something like that and some signature units like a Khan on fucking bike, which they don't have for some reason.

(56:08):
I don't get that at all.
Fuck that. Just make the mounted units the best in the game.
You know they do have a reactive move strat, right?
No, they don't do that.
Yeah, they do.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, I'm talking shit.
Do you need a revamp though? I agree.
Okay, well I'll rephrase that. Give them a specialized dedicated data sheet unit.

(56:31):
Yeah.
Like the equivalent of Black Knights for them.
That'd be really cool.
Allow that to be inherently baked into their fucking rules.
That they can move inherently as an ability on the data sheet, right?
I think that the problem with them as a sub-faction is that they just don't have that special unit.
Like Dark Angels kind of do. I always feel like there's just not enough bikers and stuff for space marines.

(56:54):
You've got like outriders. They took normal bikes out, so they're gone apart from obviously for Black Knights.
But you've just got outriders and those little sort of ATVs.
Yeah, most speeders.
They need some special, like really strong bike-a-melly.
I have a feeling to add to the constant sort of deluge of space marine releases that what would be 11th edition or maybe at the end of 10th will get a lot of bike replacement units.

(57:19):
I hope so.
I feel like if 10th edition is the era of the Deathwing adaptation, then 11th will be the Ravenwing year.
CSM need new bikers as well because they're ancient kits.
Everything needs new bikes.
I think that's a good answer for the loyalists.
So what about for the traitor legions?
Well, this is only me and we need to double-check with you as well.

(57:40):
I would say for me the word-bearers.
Give them some really cool demon summoning abilities, like make a greater demon be able to rip from a Psyker or something.
Give them some gnarly fucking crazy rules about summoning demons and allowing them to use some really cool out-of-codex stuff.

(58:03):
Imagine some stuff like, I don't know, where you have cultists or something and then you have to roll a certain value and you can just flesh change the unit into two spawn or something like that.
Yeah, or you have blood letters or something.
Yeah, just something cool.
Which I know is really hard to balance.
I totally get that.
And it's like on some games they do fuck all and other games they'll transform into a fucking game-winning unit that will eat something.

(58:26):
But it's fun, man.
It's kind of what the word-bearers are all about, really.
It's like manipulating humans into doing really fucked up shit and summoning a bunch of demons.
I don't know, you've kind of said about your Traitor Legion and we'll go into detail about that in a second, but that you would change mechanically.

(58:48):
But I think the word-bearers just don't reflect their...
A lot of the others do, like Iwaris do, Black Legion do, Loads do, but they don't.
Yeah, no they don't for sure.
I think for me personally, my two choices would be Nightlords for traitors because they've never got them right.
Yeah, they haven't, right?
They should be terrifying.
There was a point in 9th Edition where they were kind of cool.

(59:11):
They had some really interesting strats, like I think it was Vox Scream, and they had one that let them sort of come out of buildings in Deep Strike or something.
I guess I'm actually still really cool.
That's a bit shadowy, right?
Yeah, because they're all about like busting out the shadows and just murdering you basically.
And that's what I kind of want them to do.
I know the whole leadership thing plays into it, but they need to just make that more impactful as a whole.

(59:34):
Funnily enough, I was going to say this, I think the power of Nightlords is always linked to how important leadership is in your current edition.
Yeah, definitely.
And I think although Battle Shock is actually a really good way of doing leadership in the current edition, and it does potentially have some like swing moments.

(59:55):
They are few and far between.
Yeah.
Right, let's be real.
They're just not as cool as they could be.
And as a result, I think that's why the Nightlords aren't as good as they should be.
Can you guess my Loyalist answer?
Ooh, I can't actually.
Maybe Salamanders?
No, I think Salamanders have got OK rules now.
I think they're actually not that bad.
Yeah, Firestorm works.

(01:00:16):
The one for me is Imperial Fists, because I love Imperial Fists.
And their detachment bonus is don't move in a game where you constantly need to move.
And I hate that.
No, that is fucked up.
I hate it.
I think.
How do you change that though, right?
Do you just make them harder?
I think you either make them really tough or give them some ability to kind of fortify.

(01:00:37):
Fortify, fortify, fortify.
Because they just need something like that.
Or just give them like, you know, a bit more sort of speciality with their Bolter drills and all that sort of stuff.
Like just make them a bit more effective, because at the minute, I think it's like plus one to wound if you stand still or something like that.
And it's just very difficult to activate a lot of the time.
So you're right.
I think the problem with the Imperial Fists is when you get them wrong, they just kind of seem like inferior ultramarines.

(01:01:03):
Yeah.
And they don't really have like much going for them.
But obviously in the lore, and in particular, the awesome Siege of Terra series, those fuckers, man.
Like if they've got a fortified location, good fucking luck there.
Yeah, exactly.
Like there's a bit, I think it was in Saturine or Saturine or however you pronounce it, where, spoilers, but there was a gamble bit where like Dawn basically led a load of just gestarian fucking sons of Horus,

(01:01:33):
elite of the elite, most feared strike force terminators into a fucking killing floor of like Imperial Fists where they just annihilated them and almost killed a battle.
Right.
And they're the fucking hardest motherfuckers in what was the Age of Heroes equivalent of 40k, 30k.
Yeah.

(01:01:54):
And they were just Imperial Fists.
They were just like fucking just like hard as fuck veterans that were like, we're going to bolt of fuck you.
Yeah.
Bolt of fuck you.
And that is not represented in their rules at all.
It's not.
Unless you hit the nail on the head where it's really hard to balance, staying in one position when you need to move out.

(01:02:16):
Maybe it should be like keyed on being on an objective.
Yeah, I think maybe like give the tougher, there is some stuff like that but I just don't think they lean into it enough.
It needs to be, you know, if you're sat on objectives, bolt, you know, sort of bunkering, hunkering down on your, on your sort of terrain and that sort of stuff.
It's got to be something cool.
So, you could do a controversial, give them, especially since this ruined the game, made my faction incredibly strong last edition.

(01:02:40):
Give them a, what was it called?
Transhuman?
Yeah, transhuman against shooting only whilst they're on an objective.
That'd be interesting.
People love transhuman.
Yeah, no right.
I did.
Definitely didn't split the entire community.
But like just against shooting and only when they're on an objective, so you could punch them.

(01:03:03):
Yeah.
But it represents the fact that like when they're in structural defense, they just fucking hunker down there.
That's it.
Like good fucking luck shaking them.
But I don't know, or make their bolters a bit deady.
Like make their bolters death boots.
Well, that didn't go so well with Death Watch at the start of the edition, did it?
Do you remember there was a moment where Death Watch could just kill anything in the game with basic bolters and then everyone was like, maybe we should change that.

(01:03:27):
Yeah, I mean, sure.
But I mean, that is the signature weapon of the Imperial system, right?
It is.
The old humble bowler.
I think my monkey's poor wish would just to be Crimson Fists actually get a proper supplement.
Oh my God.
Crimson Fists?
You're like one of like fine people in the world that love those.
Is that Cantor?

(01:03:48):
Cantor, Pedro Cantor, yeah.
Pedro, Pedro, Pedro.
Yeah, dude.
Do you know what, was that fucking Rins World?
Yeah, Rins World, yeah.
Oh, look at me go.
Yeah, and they're just holding out against all these Orcs, yeah.
I'll be real.
That was a great buck.
Bad lads.
Absolutely a unit.
They have that humanitarian element to them as well.

(01:04:11):
Yeah, I mean, dude.
I mean, we could talk about Space Marines all day.
Yeah, I mean, maybe we have to one day, but like, no, fuck the Crimson Fists, dude.
Fuck you, Lion.
Yeah, well, yeah, whatever.
I'd be Lion if I said I like the Dark Angel.
Oh, on that note.

(01:04:33):
Oh, don't end it on a shit joke like that.
Well, we're both dads.
We are both dads.
Hashtag both dads.
So we need some dad jokes there.
We do.
Let us know, let us know in your comments, what would be your legions of choice that you'd room, or even chapters if you want to get really like about it.
But I will warn you, any of you choose Dark Angels, I will come to your house and give you a stern talking to.

(01:04:59):
Yeah, he'll just be outside the window just with a hood.
Stop that I'm talking to you and be like, you're wrong.
You'll be in your dressing gown.
I will, I'll be there.
Hood up.
So I heard you, I heard you've got shit against the Dark Angels.
This is not going to fly.
It's not acceptable.
Of course, check us out on our social medias.

(01:05:22):
Do you want to promote your Insta slash sites here?
I don't even remember what my handle is for my personal one currently, but we'll get it all on there at some point and update it all.
CountRuskular minis.
Yeah, there you go.
For me.
I think I'm like Eddie 40k or something.
And my pod that I do with my beautiful wife Mel called Grimdark Bastards.
Yeah, I love that.

(01:05:44):
Although we do need to do more episodes because we haven't done enough.
And it's not like you live with her.
It's not easy to get, you know, fuck you.
If you know, you know, our kids are basically the same age for our listeners.
So it's a bit of a challenge, isn't it?
Oh my God.
For both of us, different reasons.

(01:06:06):
But it's all good.
But we hope you enjoy this first episode of In the Tank.
Yeah, welcome.
Give us some suggestions for next time.
Come back.
Yeah, listen to us talk more interesting things about 40k.
Yes, come back to us.
We may have some like YouTube video-y ones at some point as well.
But we hope you enjoy this pilot and much love to you all.

(01:06:29):
See you in the next one.
Yeah.