Episode 32: Do Space Wolves Deserve The Hate?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We'll get this out of the way before we start is that this is all Russ just, he's trying to, you know, resist.

(00:07):
The beehive.
No, no, he's just, he's trying to sort of like, you know, make a point that he really hates space was just so that he can kind of convince himself so he doesn't accidentally slip into them because he's got the name, you know, he said, he said, he said, he said I Rue one time on podcast.
It's put to my discord if you don't believe me.
There's a lot of evidence that points towards him actually being secretly a space will play.

(00:33):
I wouldn't be surprised if I raided his house to find a space was army secreted away somewhere.
So that's this is what this is really about.
And I have to say, if you are a space wolf player, I'm sorry that you play space wolves and you're wrong.
Let's get, let's get taken to the fucking courtroom.
Russ, come on.
Welcome to the in the tank podcast.

(00:54):
Get ready for an hour of hot 40 K goodness coming in your ears.
So in the tank now, baby, we're live.
We are indeed live.
Welcome everybody to in the tank.
How you doing?
My fabulous co-host Ed.
I am grand.
How are you?
My equally fabulous and sexy, long haired, voracious co-host.

(01:19):
Oh, wow. Oh, nice.
Thank you.
I have to feel a bit like I'm getting into the vapors.
I'm doing all right.
I'm doing okay.
I'm fighting an endless string of cursed plagues from Papa Nurgle that he's been truly blessed.
Oh, it's because I'm blessed.
It's because it's my year of chaos, right?

(01:39):
So he's just like, there you go.
Like feel what it's like to be a condity.
Exactly. Exactly.
But yeah, no, I'm doing all right, mate.
I'm doing okay.
I'm doing okay. Yeah, all good.
All good.
Life with you all good.
It is good.
It's been a bit of a slog the last sort of month having, you know, had to shit out 1500 points of Genestealers in basically what is three weeks has not been an easy task.

(02:02):
Meanwhile, Russ has been painting a single ballista Streadnought very, very slowly.
He's like, look Ed, I've done the metal and I'm like, look Russ, I've done 50 hundred more Genestealers.
The bit that really made me laugh was you on the discord raving about how many claws you had to do.
How many claws?

(02:23):
How many claws?
Outrageous.
How many claws Ed?
Tell me how many claws you've had to do.
This is how many passes I've had to do over Genestealer claws since painting this army.
And this is just for the Genestealers by the way.
It's not including all the acolytes because a lot of them have claws as well.
And I haven't even counted them.
Just the Genestealers, I have had to do 660 passes over fucking Genestealer claws.

(02:46):
I've lost it.
I've let my wits end.
Honestly, this is all self-inflicted.
Like you chose this army.
So you guys don't know this yet and it's really sad news and I'm devastated about it.
But basically I was planning to go to the Oxford Onslaught GT with my boy Russ and a few other people.
And I was really looking forward to it.

(03:07):
It's basically what I built this fucking army for, right?
I was going in for it.
And then turns out that some absolute selfish bastard in my family has decided to book their 40th birthday party that same weekend.
What a knobhead.
So now I've had to cancel the damn event, which is shit.
But equally good, I suppose, is that I now have a spot on one of the ITT, which is coming up, this commentary ITT, the International Teams tournament.

(03:35):
I don't know the abbreviation.
That's coming up this weekend, which would have been past weekend for you guys, now that you're listening.
So I already would have done it.
But basically I've now had to expedite my entire army painting by three weeks because I would have had much longer to do it.
So I've just been drilling Genestealers.
Like my poor wife has been looking after the boy all bloody last couple of weeks, you know, as much as she can to give me space to just get this army done and stuff.

(04:03):
And it's been chaotic. So we're getting through it now.
I've only got 11 models left to paint in basically 24 hours.
And I think that's doable.
So, well, look, I'm gutted that you're not going to be purely selfish from a purely selfish place.
I'm gutted because we met at Oxford Onslaught.
We actually actually like all the bromance.

(04:25):
Yeah, exactly.
I am the beast and you're clearly the beauty in this.
Yeah, I definitely am.
I can see me in a yellow dress.
But obviously, buddy, it's cool.
It's what happens. It's all good.
It's all good. And at least it gave you the spur motivation to get your bloody army painted.
So it could have been worse.
I think what I'm probably going to do is just get like over because when I get back from this event, it's like full barn mode because I haven't had time to do much with the barn for the last three weeks because of this army being just taking up all my time.

(04:53):
So once I do get back, we're going to kick the barn off and get it just finished and done and operating and streaming and stuff.
So that's going to be really exciting.
Can't wait for that.
That's the battle barn.
If those of you haven't heard it of it yet, somehow in the description below, that's going to be our new 40k streaming channel where we're going to be playing actual games of 40k live and doing some pre-recorded bat reps and stuff like that.

(05:16):
So, yeah, that's me pretty much.
It's just been a good old slog.
But I tell you what, the nice thing about it is that I've got so much fucking pent up aggression from painting for so many weeks that I am just going to destroy my opponents this weekend.
I'm just going to go full send aberrance up your fucking arsehole.
So you get angry.
I just go mad when I sing songs about heretic trays and like back on the creamy grind and stuff, right?

(05:43):
I said you were a great one the other day.
You did indeed.
You did indeed.
That was great.
You won the internet with that song, mate.
I tell you.
It's okay.
So I better talk about what I've been working on.
Yeah, what have you been working on?
No, so very quickly, I've already told everyone.
No, no, no, fine.
Fuck you.
I've been working on other things.

(06:04):
Have you?
You don't know me.
You've been air flying plague Marines.
So, yes, I've been working on my ballista, Sazik, the unwavering.
Also trying to paint, fuck you, trying to paint my gladiator tank and of course my 10 Sterngard.
Yeah, I've also shout out to one of my students that I won't tell I won't like Doc's them and stuff like that.

(06:29):
But you know who you are.
They've managed to source me a fucking doom rider.
I know.
So I'm well getting it and I even and I sat there and created a 1500 points second-hand army list, which is actually only 10 models.
Yes, I only 10 models because second is crazy.
I'll tell you what it is very quickly.
Castle and bike aka team rider sorcerer and then I've got seven chaos space Marines with a couple of water cannons in there three bikers six corn berserkers five veteran chaos space Marines a dreadnought and four bloodletters and that is it.

(07:04):
That's the entire army.
That's such a random amount.
Do you know what work for bloodletters can do in second?
I bet like oh my God like Russ has been sending me loads of like pictures of these metal minis and I was like what's wrong with what's wrong with his helmet?
And Russell's like that's his face.
I love it.
I love it.
It's great fun and I'm getting such nostalgia from like making them and stuff like that and I've given them a go and I cannot wait to paint them when I've finished all of my seeing some in the discord.

(07:35):
Yeah, man.
Absolutely.
Which reminds me.
Thank you for reminding me.
Everyone get on the discord, please.
Please get on the discord like comment subscribe.
Follow me at count.
You know, I'm going to be doing a lot of these particular minis on Instagram.
What is your name?
I am Eddie s 40 K.
There you go.
He's 40 K.
There you go.
See and obviously please check out our recent episode with peachy, which was absolutely genius.

(08:00):
That was so much fun.
He's a thank you peachy for coming on and you'll potentially be on again in the future at some point.
But we had a blast with that episode.
So we did.
Yeah.
And thank you to our patreons as well.
Help us to continue doing this every week.
So to keep coming in your ears.
Wild.
Thank you so much for your support.
Honestly, like it's mad.

(08:21):
That's like, thank you so much.
Yeah, I was going to do an Elon Musk from the heart then but I don't do that.
Please.
So please don't do that.
But yeah, so that kind of that kind of rounds out all of our sort of catch up.
Yeah.
Oh one more thing quickly.
Q&A questions, please.
Yes, we're going to do a Q&A question episode, which was being entirely episode where we answer

(08:42):
questions and answers.
Anything to do with topics that you want to discover.
It can be personal questions about us or our hobby or whatever.
Just like us.
I was going away.
Please leave your comments below.
Q&A episode.
We'll have our first ever in the tank Q&A episode.
Yeah, just leave us a comment.
Ask what you like.
Yeah, go for it.
Any no topic is taboo as they say.

(09:03):
Exactly.
So first topic that we haven't had chance to really unpack because we had the peachy episode,
obviously last week, the Emperor's Children range.
How do we feel about the Emperor's Children range?
I like it on the whole and I like it on the whole.

(09:24):
Snap.
Snappy wappy.
He made a pervy joke.
I did.
That is really cool.
Honestly, I think they have nailed a lot of the aesthetics.
I do think there are some more questionable sculpts out there.
I know there's been a lot of sort of memeing on the cone heads and all of that sort of
stuff and the tank top guys who I think actually are still the cone heads, but they're really

(09:47):
cool.
I do like them.
I think Lucius's model is sick.
I do really like Fulgrim's model as well.
Yeah, so and I think the Noisemarines are great.
I just I just didn't know it would be really fun.
So I'm just going to go over all of these because I didn't know what they were called.
They've all got like wanky names.
Very weird names.
From my perspective, I'm very glad that I did what my heart told me to do and go word

(10:13):
bearers over Emperor's Children because I was a bit worried that I was going to get
Byers Remorse and go like, actually, I should have gone Emperor's Children, right?
Like the Lucius model I find gloriously disturbing.
Like I think he's weird, dude.
He's proper weird looking.
I love it.
I get that he's cool.

(10:34):
The tongue's cool.
The tongue's a bit strange.
The layer blades are strange.
He's got a proper corset action going on.
Very, very interesting.
Not really my thing, but cool.
Love the Noisemarines.
I think the Noisemarines are the actual best bit of the entire range refresh.
They're very cool.
Like chunky.

(10:55):
Sorry, excuse me.
Big old guns looking cool.
I hope that they will be the thing that you'll be able to have with Codex Diversity where
you'll be able to take those in undivided armies, right?
Because they usually are, right?
So, well, yeah, but like obviously it's the Plague Marines, the Rubric Marines, the Corn
Berserkers and the Noisemarines, but obviously they look like kind of like special weapons

(11:17):
squads more so than anything else now where there's only six of them and they're really
chunky and big.
Could end up being one of the other squads that end up crossing over.
Which would suck because they're nowhere near as interesting, right?
Because then you have the Tormentors slash Infractors, which are the Shooty slash Combat,
what would be Legionaries, I suppose, right?

(11:38):
I mean, they're cool.
They might be the ones that cross over because if you look at Rubrics and Plague Marines,
those are both troops, right?
They're both battle lines.
This is what I'm saying, but I don't want that.
I want the big old fat fucking Noisemarines.
I mean, traditionally it's been Noisemarines, but we'll just have to wait and see, I suppose.
You know.
Also, you would have no USP then because essentially then your Tormentors and Infractors are probably

(11:59):
just slightly faster Legionaries, whether you're actual Noisemarines or you're heavy
duty anti-infantry fucking Shooty lads, which are really cool.
The one models that I am not into at all that I think are really weird and kind of freaked
me out are the old Flawless Blades.
They're the Coneheads, right?
Oh, weird.

(12:19):
Weird fucking models, man.
It looks a bit like Earthworm Jim.
What the fuck?
Earthworm Jim would then like the thing on the top of it as well.
Like bizarre models.
I imagine that what's going to be happening in that is that most people, they'll either
have some alternate heads in the pack or other people will be banging normal Marine helmets
and swapping them out.
I don't like them.
I don't like their poses, mate.

(12:40):
I think their poses look well weird for me.
Like, I like the concept that they are potentially what would be the possessed slash eight bound
slash elite unit, but they're so contrived and so arrogant that they don't allow actually
to be possessed themselves.
And they're like, fuck you demons, right?
And I guess the angle that they're going with is like, Slenesh is quite svelte and quite

(13:03):
feminine and like kind of egg kind of shape, kind of weird, I guess.
Like, I don't know.
I'm kind of drawing it straws here, but like, whatever.
I really like the Lord Exclu- Exclu-Tant or Exu- Exu-Tant or whatever it is.
That is a fucking great, go on, keep going.
Have another go.
Lord Exu-Tant.
Exalted.

(13:24):
Exalted.
That's the one.
Sorry.
I'm not even looking at it.
I think they look great.
I think they look really cool.
They look really cool.
The spear looks really cool.
Exu-Tant.
Yeah, he's cool.
He's cool.
He's cool.
He's quite awesome.
I think you've got the Lord Cacophonist.
How can I say that?
Okay.

(13:45):
Like that's weird, I guess, because it's a musical terminology.
The Cacophonist reminds me of like the old school crazy fucked up noise marine sculpts
and actually I quite like it.
A part of me should be like, no, I don't like it, but actually I think it looks cool.
There's some cool models here for like CSM armies to just convert into like Lords and
Lords shit as well.

(14:06):
Like you could just, because obviously, you know, you can make them one god or, you know,
say that'd be cool.
I like that.
I'm into that.
I mean, I would paint up the noise marines as word bearers, noise marines, right?
I'd give them all that same sort of colour scheme effect.
But if, if, if to be fair-
If you're able to run them, yeah.
If, if I, if they are undivided, then I will totally do it.
Also, rumours for the fire that is going to be Demon Kin rules.

(14:31):
I fucking said it.
I fucking said it again.
Second, second-
You and half the internet.
Fuck off Ed.
I said it eight years ago.
I also said that Empress children were coming at the beginning of the edition.
You're like, I don't think they are.
I think, I don't think they're going to be released this edition.
Fuck you.
How dare you.
But yes, on the whole, what would you give them out of 10?

(14:52):
The Empress children ring.
I'm going to go for a firm throbbing eight out of 10.
What about you?
You think that's too high.
You're going for seven aren't you?
I'm going to give them a six.
Oh, that is low.
I mean, just not my thing.
Just, just, just not my thing.
I do think they are quite divisive as a, as a model range.

(15:13):
I'm glad they got them.
I think there was a lot of people who were really excited for them and then sort of had a big flop on when they came out.
Equally a lot of people are the opposite.
So they're not for me, but I love them.
I think they're cool.
I think, I think the setting is better for their existence.
And I think actually it needed to have them have done a good job.
They've done a great job of sculpting them.
Just not my personal fancy, if that makes sense.

(15:34):
I like chunky boys, not svelte boys.
I'm a, I'm a bear, bear lover.
But there you go.
See, there you go.
So yes, so what do you guys think of it?
Do you like him?
Do you think they look weird?
Do you think big heads are a bit strange?
Lol.
Hey, it's all cool.
So cool.
Are you going to get an Empress children army head?
I've got enough to deal with at the minute.

(15:55):
Maybe one day we've got projects in the tank.
The electric guitar, the electric guitar guns.
I'm not, not for now.
All right.
All right.
All right.
That's cool.
So first meaty, proper meaty topic of today.
It's importance in the game and all of the different variants that terrain is useful

(16:17):
because terrain's been an interesting progression in terms of like how I've sort of loved the
hobby over the years.
Cause I don't know about you, but when I was younger, even in like proper GW stores and
stuff and we're talking like second and third ed or whatever, terrain was nowhere near as
important as it is in the modern era at all.

(16:38):
Like you would, you don't get me wrong.
You get some words and stuff and some cool bunkers or whatever, but like it would never
be like it is today.
Whether if you had a situation like you have today, you'd get like this sort of shooting
gallery effects where no one would ever make it into close combat ever.
Right.
So how important is terrain?

(16:59):
Do you reckon in the modern era?
I mean, it's quite loaded.
Yeah.
I think it is mega important.
I think because as you said, the rules are so they really dictate the game with the way
that terrain works currently.
I think it is, it has a huge impact.
Like terrain layout has an enormous impact on how the game can play.
And I think that that is always a trick is actually just balancing the terrain around

(17:22):
melee armies, shooting armies, because obviously it's a difficult one to get right.
I think we, we here in the UK have mainly UKTC.
I know that obviously glass hammer has their own sort of variant of stuff and there are
a few other things that people play, but we are mainly using that UKTC style.
And it's always a little tweak.

(17:43):
You know, it's interesting because recently they turned a ruin from like, I think it was
like this to like, to more like that sort of like a diagonal.
They put it on a diagonal basically, for those of you listening.
And that's massively changed the way that you can hold that objective and how well like
shooting armies can attack that.
And it's, and it really makes a huge shift because obviously melee armies need to be

(18:06):
able to stay.
So if you've got too big a gap between like the terrain in the midboard, you can't effectively
get from where you need to be to where you need to go.
Like, and that's really tricky.
And equally, if you have two wider firing lines, then shooting armies are just dominate.
So you have to kind of balance it around.
That's really hard.
I've heard some kind of quite slight, I wouldn't say slight, but quite snidey kind of comments

(18:31):
in regards to the fact that like the reason why you have terrain in this edition of the
game is that the game is not balanced.
And I would go actually, no, I think I actually really like the concept of terrain as it stands
in the modern era where it feels more like laser questy.
And it feels more like in third ed, there was a supplement created called city fight.

(18:55):
And the concept of city fight was basically what we now as modern 40k.
The rules were a lot more convoluted in terms of like holding buildings and stuff.
And like, there was loads of like weird extra rules and stuff that were very narrative based
about, or city fight, it was called, I can't remember, based around fighting in industrial
complexes and stuff.

(19:16):
Right.
But that whole kind of almost laser questiness of like hiding behind cover, shooting stuff
out of cover, it feels more like what a battle in the 41st millennium would probably be like,
which is like, your cities are fucked, like it's all rubble and like you're just, it's
very Starlingrad-esque where it's just like, you're taking your pot shots and you know,

(19:37):
and I really like that.
Obviously from a hobby and perspective, it puts a lot of onus on you and a lot of effort
to like have terrain in the first place, which is one extra expense on top of everything
else that you have to do.
Bloody expensive, bloody expensive.
But I think it creates the most balanced way that we have ever enjoyed this hobby before

(20:00):
ever.
Right.
Like terrain is so important.
Like old world and sigma and stuff, it's like a fucking blank table.
It's mad.
It's nuts.
It's just like, go for it.
Like just go for it.
You've just got like a rock and then like some dragon bones.
And that's it.
And then a wood.
You're done.
Yeah.
It makes sense because it's like pitched battles in fantasy, like, you know, but we're talking

(20:22):
about industrial, like 41st.
There's a lot more ranged combat in the 41st millennium.
Also equally, people will hit each other with hammers and swords, which is really cool.
We were talking about this as being like grimmed up, like why the fuck would you ever use melee
weapons in the 41st millennium?
But it is awesome.
I think it's an interesting one because obviously like back in the day when we were younger,

(20:44):
like, just having like, first of all, poor hammer, you know, just banging a load of fucking
coke cans and like egg boxes and shit on the table and using that.
We've all been there.
Yeah.
We've all been there.
But like when you go to Warhammer world now, they have such a random hodgepodge of ruins
and tanks and like, you know, like little actual sort of, you know, tankers and shit

(21:06):
like that on the table and a little castles and all this sort of stuff.
It doesn't really work in the same way that L shaped ruins works, but you can make it
work.
But I think that we've kind of, it's almost a bit sad in a way because we've kind of lost
that, like that sort of like wholesome.
It's not the innocence so much.
It's just that wholesome sort of almost realistic look to a battlefield where you look at it

(21:32):
and you think, oh, this is really cool.
They've got like an industrial complex over there and they've got a load of like, you
know, sort of broken fuel tanks over there.
You don't have that as much these days because balance and sort of balancing the game equally
around the terrain has become more prevalent.
And I think that you've kind of lost that aesthetic.
Yeah, I get it.

(21:52):
But ruins are cool.
Don't get me wrong.
Like you can still make them look great.
Like, look at what Michael Kord does for the Oxford Enslot.
Like, you know, he's sexied his terrain up loads.
Every table is unique and matched to a mat and it looks gorgeous.
But so you can do it, but it's just not, it's not as easy.
And I do think if I'm honest, I would love to see Games Workshop do and this is something

(22:13):
that they, I really just wish they'd fucking do it.
You remember when they did the Kill Team Orc terrain, right?
It was still L-shaped kind of ruins and stuff like that.
They need to start doing more of that kind of shit where they'd basically take the premise
of L-shaped ruins and walls and various other places.
Oh, they're different factions.
But yeah, exactly.
I want some like Eldar terrain.
I want like Tyranid terrain.

(22:34):
I want, you know, terrain that's ruined and all been taken over by the Garden of Nergal.
Like, you know, just kind of use your imagination.
Do a universal L-shaped format, but with crazy designs.
Yeah, just take, just, you know, like make more of these cool ruins that they've got,
but just put actual detail on them from different factions and stuff.

(22:54):
Because all we've got at the minute is basically like kind of Mars pattern, sort of, you know,
that industrial style terrain.
Or we've just got like Gothic ruins.
And that's really, and then the Orc stuff.
And that's really mostly it.
Like what I will say about that buddy though, is like I've heard reports and rumors that
like all the things sold at GW like terrain is one of the worst selling things.

(23:17):
Interesting.
So it doesn't make that much return because in terms of, and that's why they constantly
dropped all the time and then brought back because it's like they kind of do it in cycles.
It's a shame because it's expensive stuff.
And I think it takes a long time to paint.
Right.
And there's a lot of detail on that terrain with like the UKTC terrain.
You could just airbrush it and like a couple of colors and you're done, you know, if you

(23:40):
have a bare minimum.
So that's what you've got to really appreciate your hobby heroes that put time into making
terrain look cool.
Like you mentioned, Michael, like we love you, Michael.
Right.
And it's like, you know, cause you're taking the personal hit of going, I'm sacrificing
painting minis.
I really need to get done for terrain of all fucking things.

(24:01):
Right.
And you know, it lacks a bit of character unless you really put your effort in, but
it's the one fundamental thing that really brings a game to look like a proper game of
toy soldiers.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I don't know.
I'm not a specialist in terms of train.
I would be probably awful at painting terrain really, cause I'm just a perfectionist with
my painting anyway.

(24:21):
So like it'd be awful.
But like if you're of that right head space to do it, then hold onto those people in your
community because they are desperately needed.
Yeah, they are.
Everyone likes having nice terrain to play on.
I think this is the other important part of this to touch on is like the different formats
because obviously, as I said, we mainly use the UKTC, which is like just sort of L shaped

(24:43):
ruins for the most part.
But there's other things like the games workshop terrain and they have like these sort of clear
perspex bases and they put bits on there.
And then you've also got WTC, which is the world team championship.
They have their own format of terrain and they obviously, because they're a team event,
they have like light, medium and heavy boards and all of those have, have you not heard
about this?

(25:03):
No.
Okay.
So all of those boards are different levels of terrain.
So this weekend, we are using that.
We're using UKTC terrain, but we're doing the same format in terms of light, medium,
heavy boards.
So there'll be slightly more terrain on one board and there'll be slightly less on another.
Is that to benefit slash hamper certain factional bias?
Yeah.
So the way it kind of works, I won't go too deep into it, but basically during the pros

(25:26):
pairing process, when you're trying to get good matchups for your team, you're also using
like the tables as like part of that pairing process.
So you're kind of trying to put your shooting armies onto light tables where they've got
bigger angles and the opponent is trying to put their like melee armies onto heavier tables
where they can stage better.
So it's all kind of a little mini game, which is quite cool.

(25:48):
But the WTC is famous for that and they, theirs is a lot heavier than UKTC.
They have a lot more staging grounds and a lot tighter angles of fire.
So it all makes a big difference.
Like if you play a game on, because shout out now as well, my mate Plato, who I'll be playing
with this weekend, he's the captain.
Great name.
That's a great name.
He's an absolute legend, plays for team Romania on the WTC or has done and hopefully will

(26:14):
be selected this year as well, which would be awesome.
So he has made his 3D printed me an entire WTC set of terrain for the battle bar, like
an absolute fucking legend and it's collapsible.
So you can literally just take the L's and collapse them down flat packed.
And it looks beautiful.

(26:34):
So he spent the last like couple of weeks printing that for me and he's bringing it
over this weekend.
So that's going to be awesome to be able to play with.
So this is it.
There's something else to think about as well.
As this hobby gets more and more and more and more and more popular.
Right.
And I know that there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of companies that are going
to create alternative terrain kind of solutions and stuff like that.

(26:56):
Right.
That like there's going to be some really innovative shit come out in the next few years.
Right.
You heard of the laser cut architect, you know, there's people like him and they're
really good.
They do like MDF terrain and they do just really cool, unique designs.
I know that like James from March of War does really cool stuff.
If you haven't checked those both of those guys out, you should.
Because if you're interested in terrain, it's fairly quick to get on the table.

(27:18):
You know, you've got loads of good stuff there.
So yeah, it's a wild kind of thing at the minute because you do need good terrain to
play this game properly.
It's just the most unglamorous thing ever.
Right.
No, like passion for people.
Unless people really into it.
Yeah.
I mean, to be honest with you, I wouldn't be spending much time painting terrain unless

(27:41):
I had to.
And I'm going to have to paint some for the barn, obviously.
But like, you know, I'd rather be painting armies, you know, most of the time.
So I get where people are coming from.
And so I can see what you're saying about sales being low because it's another cost.
Right.
You're already spending a load of money on your army, your codex, you know, you all that
shit.
So why do you want to buy a load of bloody terrain that take months to paint and transport

(28:04):
it to wherever you want to take that's also another thing.
And that's why I think that like being able to flat pack stuff is so good because being
able to like store it easier because terrain is takes up a lot of space, you know, especially
some of the bulkier shit.
You know, it's this big bulky.
So there's massive Gothic ruins.
Where are you putting all of that?
You know, massive.
True.
Very true.

(28:25):
But, you know, as you say, it's a thing that can make or break a game.
So it's one of the most thing that we don't prioritize anywhere near as what we should
do.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's interesting.
It's a cool.
It's a cool subject.
I think terrain.
There are, as you said, like more and more people innovating on terrain, sort of, you
know, actual producing terrain to make it flat packable and to just make it easier to

(28:48):
store and to use.
And people like with with Plato, who's 3D printed me this terrain, he's 3D printed it in multiple
colors.
So I don't even need to wow.
Like it's got sort of like a marble effect through it and different.
So it's crazy.
Yeah.
So like, see, that's a good point with 3D printers on the rise.
That's going to be mad.
That's going to be proper mad.
So thanks to him.

(29:08):
Shout out to Plato, my boy.
Oh, yeah, dude.
There's one piece of terrain actually that I am really after, which has gone out of print
for a little bit of time now, which is the Sisters of Battle Sanctum, which is like the
statue of Saint Celestine.
It comes up on eBay every now and then.
I've seen it.
So expensive.
I really want one, but it's so expensive.
I also like those big cannons.

(29:28):
Do you know the ones I mean?
Yeah.
I can't.
They're like these massive fuck off plasma cannons.
They look really cool as well.
There's some great bits.
There's that Dark Angels like massive monastery place that looks really cool.
A lot of those aren't very practical.
They don't really add much to the game, but they do add a lot in terms of character.

(29:48):
Yeah.
And if you were running like a narrative game and you were like, right, we need to hold
this location at all costs.
That's so cool.
It is.
You just have some beer hammer with mates.
So yeah.
So diversity there with terrain from all the way from the most sweaty of competitive environments.
So the most beer hammery environments ever.
But like, what's your thing about terrain?

(30:11):
Like is it the necessary evil of the hobby?
And like, do you own much?
Because I certainly don't.
I'm interested to see what people say, like how much terrain they actually have and if
it's fucking painted, because that's the other thing.
Because a lot of people I bet have just gray terrain knocking about.
Oh, MDF.
Like, yeah, yeah, exactly.
The MDF ones easy to paint.
At least you can just spray it with an airbrush.
Gray.
Yeah.

(30:31):
Gray and dry brush.
A lot of people do, so they just print out like little posters.
All you do is just print out and they just like wet them or PVA glue them onto the side.
That's cool.
Yeah, that is cool.
That's cool.
Yeah.
The Imperial needs you.
So you need your face like wanted like practitioner of the four armed emperor.

(30:51):
The star children need you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Just pure propaganda.
Yeah.
Just four thumbs up.
So the next topic is a bit of a random one, because in the UK there was this really trashy
show in like the mid to early 2000s called Snog, Marry, Avoid for anybody that was aware

(31:13):
of this show.
And it basically involved this hideous concept of like getting someone that either looked
quite ulti or quite like heavily made up, shall we say.
Yeah.
And then to like ask people in the general public whether they would snog, marry or avoid
them.
And I thought about this concept being quite clever for this where it's like Imperium,

(31:35):
Xenos or Chaos, snog, marry or avoid as like a blanket super faction concept.
Yeah.
So, Ed, Imperium, Xenos, Chaos, snog, marry or avoid.
The alternative is fuck, marry, kill.
Fuck, marry, kill.
So I think obviously being a Xenos boy, I'd have to marry Xenos.
I knew this was coming.

(31:55):
The next one though is curious.
The four armed emperor is as we've talked about.
But also you're a Necron lad as well.
I am a Necron lad as well.
And there's other factions that I do like, the Xenos.
So I do think Xenos speaks to me in a way that other armies, other super factions don't.
Why?

(32:15):
Just out of curiosity, why?
I just like, I think I do like the Imperium.
Being the other?
Don't get me wrong.
I do like the Imperium.
I just think that they're a bit vanilla sometimes, if I'm honest.
Like it's again, what we discussed previously, that it's like playing a human in World of
Warcraft.
It's a little bit like role playing yourself.

(32:36):
And I feel like if we're going to play a damn fancy sci-fi sort of futuristic game, then
I want to play something cool.
I want to be big space monsters or like Thunder Morks and like smash and bonk.
I want to do fun things.
Smash and bonk!
Yeah, yeah.
I want to do, I want to be like grumpy undead robots and just cool stuff.

(32:58):
So I think that's why it speaks to me.
They've got a lot of character, the Xenos races.
Yeah, I will give you that.
They're quite misunderstood, I think as well.
Because obviously everyone looks at them through that lens of the Imperium, through the lens
of man.
And they're like fucking Xenos, burn them.
But like actually when you start to look at through their eyes and start to try and understand
it from their perspective, you can see the galaxy in a very different way.

(33:22):
Which I like.
So I definitely marry them.
Everyone who knows me as well knows that I've always had my dalliances with Chaos, so I
probably give them a little snog.
Just because.
A little like a tear away snog.
A cheeky bit of tongue, you know.
And then come back and then have like another tongue.
Yeah, exactly.
A bit of side action.
Side action!
To be fair, we need hobbyists like you because you represent the thing that the hobby desperately

(33:50):
needs, which is like everyone's mate that plays Xenos, right?
Yeah.
And you have a bunch of Imperial players, so that's fucking boring.
It is.
If you're all playing Space Marines and you're all just like gang banging each other with
Space Marines, it's fucking boring.
You might as well be playing fucking Horus Heresy.
Yeah, exactly.
You might as well.
You need a good uprising in your life.
We need hobbyists like yourself.
And you'll be like, what's going on on this battlefield?

(34:13):
There's no one here.
And then the little drain will open and I'll be peeping out of it.
I'll be like, this plan has been generations.
The balloons float down here.
We all float down here.
They do.
That's so creepy.
That's going to fuck me up, actually.
Your voice is really good for that.
So yeah, and obviously Imperium I would have to avoid.
That's so controversial.
I do like some Imperium stuff.

(34:33):
Don't get me wrong.
I love Space Marines.
I love Astartes in terms of the animation.
We just had the trailer for Astartes 2.
Have you watched that yet?
Yes, it's fucking awesome.
I'm sure you have.
So that looked amazing.
I blew my yoghurt.
Someone in the Discord was like, why do you guys keep saying you're dropping your yoghurt?
I don't understand.

(34:54):
You'll have to figure that out.
Dropped and slopped.
So hold on.
In terms of, we won this just a little bit.
So in terms of you snogging chaos a bit, what are your favourite elements of chaos that
made you want to snog them?
Well, I think the fact that Death Guard were literally my first army.

(35:15):
They're always going to have a special place in my heart and I will get that damn army
built and painted.
It's built mostly, but I'll get it painted.
I'm going to get mine built before yours, which is funny.
You will, 100%.
Yeah.
But I will get it on the table at some point because I just love the Death Guard.
I love their aesthetic.
I think they're so cool.
They do it for me.
I just love the idea of these just disgusting bloated monstrosities of flesh trudging across

(35:39):
the battlefield in this miasma of haze of flies and just like, they're just withering
fire just bouncing off of them, guts spilling out all over the place.
They don't give a fuck.
They're completely inured to pain and that does it for me.
I think that's such a cool aesthetic for an army and that's why I'd probably give chaos

(36:00):
a little cheeky bit of time.
Slurp, slurp.
Yeah.
And poor Imperium left out in the cold.
Is there not any saving grace for you?
No, there is.
I think, obviously I'm looking at doing my Ad Mech army.
I do think Ad Mech are really cool.
Yeah, oh yeah, interesting.
Wow.
That's a weird Imperial choice though, isn't it?
It is.

(36:20):
I think because I'm such a snowflake, I love snowflake armies.
As I've said many times before, I need to come to the table with some kind of advantage
and due to my general state of mental deterioration, I think that having an army that nobody knows
how to fucking play against is just great because I could turn up at the table and I'm
like, you ever played Ad Mech before?
As you said before, someone's behind you giving you a good run and you're like, this is part

(36:42):
of the rules, is it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is my army.
Definitely.
You see the appendices, A, here, that's I fuck you.
B, I win the game.
C, you don't know what that is.
And D, it's not a gotcha because I did tell you.
The issue with snowflake armies is that you forget most of your rules just as much as
your opponent does.
See, this is interesting because when I think of you as a hobbyist and a 40k player, the

(37:08):
one faction that I could never, ever, ever imagine you play in a thousand years, where
I think it would be like putting false teeth in a shark, is you playing Space Marines.
Yeah.
I cannot imagine you ever doing it and having fun with it, where you're there with your

(37:30):
Imperial fist or Crimson fist.
I know that you love the Crimson fist.
I do.
And to be honest, I imagine with the battle barn and stuff in the same way that you may
need a studio space.
Well, we've already got one, luckily, Paul's lending his studio space.
Oh yeah, but you never know.
If it gets to a point where you're like, I need to get my own.
I'll probably do a Death Watch army down the line because I like those kind of style.

(37:52):
But yes.
But in terms of watching you set up a Space Marine army, I could never, I can't imagine
you internally go like, I'm in my happy place.
No, it doesn't work the same.
It's just not you.
It's just so not you.
Do you know what I love is when I'm deploying and you know, like on the UKTC terrain, you've
got that sort of gap in the middle where often on maps you've got this sort of big L in the

(38:16):
middle.
But your sort of deployment zone only comes like halfway into it and you can't put anything
right in the corner where you want to block it out.
But when I play my GSC, because like loads of my shit infiltrates, I can just pack that
ruin out and I'm like, I've got a big 10 man block of jeans stealers in that corner.
Such a sneaky bitch.

(38:37):
Advance a charge.
8 inch move.
Cause you know you're in there, you're in your own tank and you're like eight moves
ahead going like, I've got some tricks.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's great.
All self satisfied.
So what about you?
See now this I'm actually finding harder than I thought.
Right.
The E, yeah, you know, see, see this is where this becomes actually quite interesting.

(39:00):
Yeah, really interesting to see what's going to happen here.
The one thing I am going to say right off the bat, and I think it's easier for me to
say this bit, the avoid, I'm going to start with.
I know exactly where I'm at here.
Avoid Xenos.
Fuck them.
Fuck you.
Weird, freaky aliens.
No, there's only one Xenos faction that I even like and I love Tao, but like I hate

(39:25):
all the other Xenos races.
So xenophobic, Russ.
I don't care.
Fuck you.
I do what I want.
What do we do?
What do we do to deserve such ire?
Freakless hate.
I'm going to say one word, Aldari.
Yeah, fuck them.
Anything related to Aldari, like elves are not my thing.

(39:45):
Elves are just not my thing.
Vicaria, yeah.
No, fuck them.
Just the polar opposite play style to me in every single way.
Fragile and fast is not where I am.
I love fragile and fast.
I know you do.
I know you do.
Hit and run, baby.
But I just want to take that hit.
I want to take it.
You want to be smashing through like boom.

(40:08):
Smash your face.
Like I don't like subtlety, right?
And like I'm just not into it.
And just they're poncy and just so arrogant and like, yeah, I just can't deal with it.
I just can't deal with it.
Tyranids, juicy, the orcs even a bit like mushroom boys not into it.
So like aliens just out of my jam, unless they have vaginal heads, it's just the way

(40:31):
that it is.
Unless they have pussy heads, I'm just not interested.
Yeah, I forgot about the town.
Everyone always does.
Yeah, I love the town.
The tower cool.
Weird.
The only Xenos faction that I like weirdly.
So avoid, burn, get the fuck away from me, you freaky weird fuck like Xenos.
Like go away.
All right.

(40:51):
You made your point.
So this is exactly now.
This is where I struggle.
And if I could ball it out and go, if I had a polyamorous marriage or if I was a polygamist,
I would marry both of these because they're kind of equal in my brain, especially this
year of all years.
But if I had to trust my heart and go with what I with my true loyalty, loyalty is its

(41:18):
own reward.
I knew it.
I had to go with the Imperium and marry.
Such a little pussy.
I know.
I can't help it.
I can't have it.
Oh, Dario Perosso.
There he is.
He's there.
He's watching me.
He's watching you.
Yeah.
I love the Imperium.
I fucking love the Imperium.
I would, I would probably marry the Imperium.
Yes, they are humans.

(41:39):
Yes.
And they are your, but they are so far away from humans as we know them in any other setting
of, of, and the Imperium encompasses so much.
It encompasses so much from like your basic bitch soldier faction to mythical space nights

(42:01):
to golden boy enhanced mega warriors to nuns with guns and marsh, freaking the Martians.
It's like, yeah, the Imperium is humanity, but the Imperium is so far from what we know
as humanity and any other setting that for me, it's so diverse and unites the crazy fundamental

(42:23):
weirdness that is the Imperium and all of its glory.
And the fact that it's an evil faction, like however you spin it, they're kind of a villainous
faction and I kind of love that.
I kind of love that.
Like humans are scumbags even in the 41st millennium and I love it.
And I love the irony.
It's good to be bad baby.
I love how ironically British they are.

(42:46):
They don't feel American to me.
Like the Imperium does not feel American at all to me.
Right.
Are any of the Space Marine legions canonically American?
Not that I'm aware of, but it always makes my asshole cringe, right?
And like suck right up into me, right?
When I see and I'm so sorry, American listeners, I don't have any beef against you per se.

(43:09):
Right.
But when you get a Space Marine army or custodian army that are all stars and stripes and you
see it, you see it happen, right?
Will they paint them all stars and stripes?
And I die.
A little part of me dies inside, right, where I'm like, oh, you just sweet summer child.
You don't understand.

(43:29):
Like you just don't understand.
It's like insane, do you?
And I'm just, it just makes me die inside when I see that shit.
Not grim dark enough, right?
I love a bit of misery in this game.
I think that's why the English love it so much.
We're just miserable fucks.
And it's also so self degrading, right?
And so like, like, you know, like we're not the good guys were country.

(43:53):
We're like, we're imperialistic.
We're like, you know, colonial and stuff, right?
It's horrible.
Like the shit that the Imperium does is fucking horrible.
Yeah.
And it's like, that's not like, okay, it's not that it's not, it's not that.
So like, I don't know.
It just pains, pains myself.
But I would be in the dark heart behind the bike sheds, giving chaos, a good old fumble

(44:18):
and a big old snog, right?
Because I love chaos.
Big blight job, a little roll around.
Little, little, little route.
I fucking love chaos.
And I'm starting to really understand why chaos are cool.
Like this year.
They have more fun, I think.
I've allowed myself to go, and I do apologize, bores deep into chaos in every respect where,

(44:41):
you know, I'm getting my heretical, hysterical, dark angels, lol jokes sorted for the next
half of the year.
And then I'm just like, oh, baby, chaotic goodness where I'm just going to be the reward
death guard, world eaters, sorry, world eaters, word bearers, second ed chaos.

(45:02):
Yeah.
What the fuck?
If I imagined I'd be doing that, I had no idea I'd be doing that.
That's fucking completely what I'm fully going into it.
And I'm just like, oh, the eight point star, take me.
And I'm just, in terms of like a villainous faction, you cannot be more villainous and
more cool and more tempted by the various powers.

(45:25):
I know they are very tempted.
And I love that.
I love that they are so tempting.
It's interesting to see this because like you and I have literally just had the opposite
exact thing.
So you obviously avoided Xenos, I've married them.
We both snogged chaos, given them a cheeky snog, and then I avoided the Imperium and
you married them.
But that was painful for me.
That was like my old high school sweetheart versus the new hotness that moved in across

(45:51):
the street, right?
That's a bit kinky and a bit, do you know what I mean?
Do you know what I mean?
Rather than where your heart truly belongs, right?
But like I'm tempted, man.
Like that was a hard decision for me.
And I never thought that would be the case.
When I came back to the hobby, I was a fervent son of the lion.
You were never going to snog Xenos, ever, were you?

(46:11):
Oh, fuck that.
No, no, no.
I'm all right.
Thank you very much.
But like, but yeah, now I'm all about the chaos life.
So who knows?
But if you come back to me in a year, maybe if I win an event with word bearers or something,
I'll be like, take me where it is.
You won't win it if my GZ the cults are there, but you might be in a couple seconds.
Well, we'll see about that.

(46:32):
We'll see about that little man.
But please let us know.
Can you write in the comments below, snog for marry, avoid your choices and your choices
for why?
I would love to know.
I would fucking love to know.
Tell us why.
Tell us why.
And if you want to watch some horrendously terrible TV from the early 2000s, just YouTube
the show because it's fucking awful.
It's terrible.

(46:53):
Terrible, terrible, terrible show.
There we go.
So wet banned one controversial subject into another with Phoenix writing it now.
Did you ever play the Phoenix Wright games for the old?
Is that the one with?
Objection.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I've not played them, but I know.
I know.
Brilliant.

(47:13):
I know.
I know.
I've played them in the courtroom, ladies and gentlemen, and non-binaries and in the
defense of the Space Wolves, because this is this has been brewing on the channel for
a while.
Like the furry jokes aside and the old Russia plays baseball's.
The defense of the Space Wolves.
And basically we're going to do a court ordered defense of them.

(47:38):
I'm going to be prosecutor.
Yeah, it's going to be defense.
And I'm going to bring some case studies to the to the table of why Space Wolves are fucking
lame and why no one should ever play them.
Try me.
So the first we just wanted to say that we'll get this out of the way before we start is
that this is all Russ just no.
He's trying to, you know, resist the beehive.

(48:00):
No, no, he's just he's trying to sort of like, you know, make a point that you really hate
space was just so that he can kind of convince himself so he doesn't accidentally slip into
them because he's got the name, you know, he said he said he said I Rue one time on
on podcasts.
It's put to my discord if you don't believe me.
There's a lot of evidence that points towards him actually being secretly a Space Wolf player.

(48:26):
I wouldn't be surprised if I raided his house to find a Space Wolves army secreted away
somewhere.
So that's this is what this is really about.
And I have to say if you are a Space Wolf player, I'm sorry that you play Space Wolves
and you're wrong.
Let's get take a fucking courtroom Russ.
Come on.
Yeah, I'm not wearing the t-shirt.

(48:46):
So neither are you the three will three will moon.
So first point of call why the space rules are lame.
A plot armor.
Yeah.
And I will bring up the following law topics which are actually probably worth discussing
the war and battle of the Fang where the thousand suns should have absolutely obliterated the

(49:06):
space wolves where Magnus had a personal one on one with your on the fell handed and beyond
survived what the fuck beyond a beast.
It's a beast.
He's a bear.
He was rounded up horse.
It's a fucking Primark.
Yes.
It's beyond the fell handed.
He's a good fucking.
No seriously.
Fuck off dude.

(49:33):
It's a fucking Primark.
Yeah, but Magnus is a giant pussy and everybody knows it.
So fuck off.
Like why do they have such plot armor all the time?
And the worst one was the months of shame.
Right.
Do you know anything about the months of shame?
Is that when you actually started collecting space?
Fuck off.
I'm serious for two seconds.

(49:56):
The months of shame because I want to detail what happened in the month of shame if you
have no idea.
I just want to just bite you.
Reach out through the internet.
Fucking bullshit.
So in all seriousness, what do you know about the months of shame?
I don't know much.
Tell me about them.
Teach me.
Okay.

(50:16):
Essentially it doesn't exactly put the Grey Knights in the best spot here.
Okay.
So I will say and one thing to take in mind as I explain this, if this would have happened
with any other space marine chapter apart from the space wolves, would they still be
a chapter at the end of this?
This is all I'm going to say.
So I'm going to say.
So the months of shame begin with the first war of Armageddon, right?

(50:40):
Where Armageddon has been a focal point for crazy fuck-up-ery for ages, right?
Where an unprecedented amount of world eaters and corn demons, including Anguaron himself,
basically nuked Armageddon and the Steel Legion alongside a very prominent appearance of the

(51:04):
Grey Knights basically fought off the world eaters and the corn demons.
Basically resulted in a fucking insane fight where the space wolves, Grey Knights and
Steel Legion managed to fend off this overwhelming amount of demons.
And what naturally happens Ed when humans come in contact with not only demons, but

(51:30):
Grey Knights?
What does the Inquisition do Ed?
They tend to turn up and fucking kill everybody generally.
They do indeed.
And that's exactly what happened basically.
A Inquisition Lord by the name of Kyranos basically was like, we need to exterminate
us, the surviving humans basically that fought alongside us.

(51:52):
And essentially Logan Grimnir said no.
And the Inquisition were like, excuse me, what?
What do you mean?
No.
What do you mean?
No.
And then essentially the humans were being ferried to be like, you know, they called
it vaccinations, but in actual fact they were being sterilized.

(52:13):
Fuck.
That's so dark.
Jesus.
It's so fucked up.
The space wolves secretly ferried loads of humans off Armageddon.
And the Inquisitors were like, what the fuck are you doing?
And they were in space and basically they were going to shoot the refugee ships.
Right.
And the space we've just went in front and we're just like, do it.

(52:36):
And the Inquisition were like, what the fuck are you doing?
And they did start shooting.
They did actually start shooting at these refugees.
Loads of refugee ships escaped Armageddon and Kyranos is like, what the fuck are we
going to do?
Like we need to get the Grey Knights in to like track these fuckers down.
Because they were also worried that not only do these humans have knowledge of demons and

(53:00):
also Grey Knights, but they could also be warp corrupted and be spreading their warp
corruption to loads of systems and stuff.
And it basically got to the point where Kyranos was getting more and more and more stressed
about this.
And he was a bit of a weird Inquisitor Lord anyway.
Like he didn't really have a retinue.
He was a bit weird.
People think that it was actually Zeke in disguise, which is kind of funny.

(53:22):
Or like a Zeke changing.
But he was starting to get more and more desperate and more and more pissed off with the wolves
and the tension between the space wolves and the Grey Knights were getting to the point
where things were getting a bit nasty.
And it was getting to the point where the Grey Knights slash Inquisition were exterminating
other planets that had been in very brief contact with the refugees of Armageddon.

(53:44):
So they were destroying spaceships, they were destroying worlds and stuff like that.
And it basically got to the point where things have got completely out of control.
And Kyranos was like, right, I'm going to try and basically capture Logan and stuff.

(54:05):
And was basically like, right, we're going to have a parlay.
Like come and have a chat.
And during the parlay, the Inquisition ships fired on the space wolf ships and destroyed
like two or three space wolf ships.
And Logan Grimloid just basically killed the Grandmaster of the Grey Knights in one swing.
Just like fucking ended him, just like axed him in the chest.
And then whilst the Grey Knights were trying to keep him there, just gunned down like the

(54:28):
retinue of Grey Knights surrounding Kyranos and stuff and fucked off.
And were basically like, yeah, you're in for it Inquisition.
Inquisition?
Like fuck you Inquisition.
I'm kind of into this.
Which basically made Kyranos snap and annex Fenris.
Basically took all of the audio malleus to Fenris and basically like around Fenris.

(54:50):
Had a chat with Bjorn that was kind of like, what are you doing?
Like get off my planet.
Don't be hasty.
Blah.
And then Logan Grimloid then appeared out of nowhere, transported on Kyranos' ships
and executed him.
What?
As you do.
And basically left this weird relationship between the Inquisition and the Grey Knights

(55:13):
where they were both like, we've both done stuff wrong.
Can you imagine that happening with any other Space Marine chapter and that Space Marine
chapter still being able to exist?
Yes, the Dark Angels.
Next point.
Any other Space Marine chapter apart from the Dark Angels and the...
No, well, no, because that's not how that would have happened, right?

(55:35):
If that would have happened to the Dark Angels, the Inquisitor Lord would have disappeared
mysteriously.
But not this brazen in public like, fuck you, ah ah, we...
To be honest with you, it sounds like the Inquisition were being dickheads.
They were overreacting as usual.

(55:56):
It seems like the Space Wars were looking after humanity.
They were trying to do the right thing.
The Grey Knights got in the way.
We're tussling.
It's been in a place that it shouldn't be.
And it sounds like, to be honest with you, the Inquisition just overstepped and the space
was put them in their place.
You're alert.
That's what the fucking Inquisition does.
That's what the Inquisition has always done.
That's what the Inquisition should do in order to prevent shit like that from happening,

(56:20):
right?
Do as you're told.
They are the ultimate authority in the Imperium.
You do as you're fucking told.
End of story.
Or...
End of story.
Nope.
Or...
Yeah, go on.
No, you just fuck them over and ignore them because they're a bunch of swats.
Also, this bullshitery about killing Grey Knights like they were nothing.

(56:41):
They're fucking Grey Knights?
Yeah.
They're op as fuck!
They are quite strong.
They should be mega strong.
You said he killed the Grand Master.
He was this Grand Master.
Yeah, I just chopped him up.
Just chopped him up.
At the time, the Grand Master was a guy called Joros.
Joros sounds like the Grey Knight.
He was Grand Master of the Grey Knights.
And just literally Logan took that corn axe, he has that fucking gimp-y corn axe that he

(57:02):
has, and just like took it to...
Just chested him.
Yeah, nice.
Fuck off.
I don't know.
Like extreme, extreme plot armour of the absolute extreme in so many ways.
It does seem like an interesting storyline.
That's fan fiction, that is.
Is it actually fan fiction?
No, it's not.
It should be.
It should be.

(57:22):
That to me feels like space wolf...
First thing, you just wasted ten minutes of my life.
No, no, no, no.
That feels like space wolf fan fiction to me.
Yeah, I mean, it is a little bit out there.
I won't lie to you, but there was probably a lot more sort of reasons that we're not seeing
behind the scenes for what happened and the disagreements that went on.
Fuck off.
Next.
It's just the space is getting all bolshy and like, oh, fucking anti-authoritarian.

(57:45):
Yeah, but they are the best people.
Fuck off.
So there we go.
So point one to the jury, plot armour, in particular, the months of shame.
Yeah.
Part two, why are the wolfens so fucking goofy?
Look, I think...
Look!
Look, look, look, look.
Okay, so let me just finish my point, right?
Yeah.
Space wolves, black rage, horrifying, scary, very weird, like, like kind of horrific and

(58:11):
you're like, I'm not going to fuck with you, dude.
Like, you carry on.
Space wolves, the carnal helix or whatever fucking furry bullshit are you going on there.
What I imagine that to be, crazy monstrosity, warpy, fucking gnarly looking werewolfy.
What we actually get, do hairy space wolves.

(58:33):
Fuck off.
I think that that model is a product of its time.
Okay.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad looking model.
I think it is goofy.
I don't think their backpacks help.
I don't think that their poses particularly help.
I do think that they could have done them better.
Okay.

(58:54):
I won't lie to you.
They definitely could have done them better.
Thank you.
I'll take this.
I'll take this.
I do think the wolfen is a concept.
Control yourself.
I do think the wolfen is a concept.
Such hate.
Are very cool.
And I do think they're not as cool as black rage.
Sure.
I think that obviously that is very different.

(59:15):
And I do love the idea of the black rage overtaking you.
And you're like, damn it, Horus, we must kill him.
Come on, Horus.
Yeah, yeah.
That's cool.
That is cool.
But I do think that the wolfen are cool because you've got this whole...
It is literally just lycanthropy at the end of the day, basically.

(59:35):
It's like the lycanthropy to the vampirism of the blood angels.
I actually love a fucking werewolf.
Werewolves are my favourite gothic horror thing.
How do you make a werewolf look cool while still wearing space marine armour?
Oh, you can make it happen, dude.
You definitely could, right?
Barely chunks of armour hanging on him.
Barely anything hanging there.

(59:55):
Like a fucking shoulder pad, like a fucking cracked helmet, right?
Like fucking all gnarly and scarred and fucking...
I'm going to come back to this because I have a feeling you're going to ask me some more
questions regarding the model range.
So you keep going.
But I think that they were a product of their time.
Can I at least have this one?
Can I at least have this one?

(01:00:15):
They do look gangly and goofy and silly.
I will admit it.
But goofy fucks.
But I do think with a modernised sculpt that they could be done in a much darker way.
If you make them look terrifying, if you make them look almost chaotic...
I also think they're posers.
I'm all about that.
They just need to be a bit more aggressive and a bit more terrifying and violent, if
I'm honest.

(01:00:36):
It's because they're the good guys.
More feral.
They need to be more feral.
They're the cool ones.
Yeah.
Whatever.
So, point three of four.
Space Vikings versus space furries.
Yeah, this is what I was waiting for.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is coming.
Wolfy wolf riders, McWolfy wolf chariot, wolf wolf wolf.
Like I've got a wolf pet, wolf cy-wolf, cyber-wolves.

(01:00:58):
Wolfs of femurises.
Oh, do you like wolves?
Is that your thing, wolves?
Is that it?
Is it?
Not Vikings, what you should probably be like during 30k.
No.
You like wolves.
Do you like them?
Fuck.
Okay.
So, I do think they went a bit hard on the wolf aesthetic, right?
I love this.
I love just being in trouble at wolf.
I do agree on that point.
I think that a lot of their old model range, like you said, they're either riding wolves,

(01:01:23):
they are actual wolves, they're wolf men, they've got wolf pelts, they've got wolf
charms, they've got wolf weapons, they've got wolf claws.
It is a bit wolfy.
Wolf familiars.
Yeah, and they all look a bit wolfy.
A wolf fucking chariot, bro.
The wolf chariot is dumb.
It's also awesome.
Fuck.
Like in a way.
That's not awesome.
It's kind of cool, but also equally dumb.

(01:01:44):
If they would have just had Leman Russ just be the one with two pet wolves, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I totally get it.
He grew up with wolves, weirdly, like whatever, like fine, like it's all cool, right?
But to then have that across the entire...
Wolf riders, man.
Yeah.
What the fuck is that?
I'd love to see, like if we do obviously get the prime art coming back, I'd love to see

(01:02:08):
like a sculpt where he has just sort of stood like pointing his sword or something or like
his weapon forward and he's got one wolf like sat by his side with his hand on the top of
his head and the other one just like leaping forward.
Yeah, that's cool.
That's cool.
That's unique to him.
That's kind of unique to him.
But the fact that it's across the entire range.
That should look awesome.
And as you say, if it was just a bunch of space Vikings with wolf pelts.

(01:02:32):
Yeah.
I do think...
No issue with that.
So I have a personal theory, right?
So we've obviously seen the 30k stuff.
I know that there was that little hiccup where they did those actual wolf head helms and
they were one fucking bundle.
They were so lame!
They were so fucking lame!
They were snooty!
They were like actual snooty!
The games workshop were like, no one saw it and they let go of this really quickly and
remade them.

(01:02:52):
If that's any validation to how I feel about this topic, that was it.
Where GW were like, exterminate artists!
That was a mistake, sorry.
That was just my fan fiction.
But yeah, so obviously that was a little hiccup.
But if you look at the 30k range, a lot of them are more Viking in their setting.
Yeah, I totally get that.
I totally get that.

(01:03:13):
And I have a personal theory.
Like Vowrack's been spouting on about the wolves a lot lately and how they're going to
be coming back and they're going to have a big model refresh range.
And all that sort of stuff, right?
I think that that's going to be the case.
And I do think they're going to lean more into that 30k Viking aesthetic.
I think there's going to be less wolves and I think the wolves that are there are going
to be done better, less goofy looking and like modernised sculpts.

(01:03:35):
And I think they're just going to be really, really savage looking, really Viking.
What for 2026, do you reckon?
Yeah, probably something like that.
But I do think that we're going to see that.
And I think when we do, a lot of people are suddenly going to come around and go, fuck
me, space was cool because they're going to remove all that sort of like, you know, free
wolf moon t-shirt kind of like a roo.

(01:03:57):
I don't know if they can, but very easily.
Hold on, let me finish.
That line has been, and I know that they obviously kill lines all the time, but like that's been
such an identity of the space wolf now for so long.
That's going to kill a space wolf collectors.
No, it's not because you can still have Thunderwolves.
There's nothing wrong.
I think Thunderwolf cavalry are cool, but they just need to be better.

(01:04:20):
They need to be more dynamic and more modernised.
And I think with that, they could be absolutely fine.
I don't think space mean riding a wolf, bro.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
It's fucking cool.
It's part of the law.
Like it's, you know, it's like blood.
It's like those blood crushers, you know, it's the same style of thing.
I think a bit of cavalry, so it's wicked.
Those things are fucking rhinoceros sized.

(01:04:42):
You do realise they are absolute units.
They're like the scariest wolves.
It's just lame.
It's just fucking lame.
I think had you actually put some really cool, like as you said, Viking ascetic looking dudes
on top of those and made the poses a bit more dynamic, they could be really cool models.
I don't know.
Even if you were to blanch that shit right up, I still think that's going to look goofy.

(01:05:03):
I do think they're going to go a bit more Viking with that range of fresh.
I think we're going to see some really cool.
Actually, I think 2026 we're going to see some really cool terminators generally.
I think we're going to see new assault terminators.
I feel like we're going to see blood.
What are they?
Wolf, wolf terminators.
Wolf guard, whatever they call them.
Wolf guard terminators.
I feel like we're going to see the blood angels terminators.

(01:05:26):
I can't remember what they're called.
They're just normal terminators.
They had like a kind of a kit because they had those red ones that you could get through
the Space Marine heroes and they're quite blood angelsy.
But no, I do think we're going to start to see some new wolf scouts.
I don't disagree.
As it currently stands.
As it currently stands, they are a little bit.

(01:05:47):
Can I have the point?
Wolfie.
Yeah, you can have the point.
Yeah, they are.
Hey, look at this.
I'm winning now.
I do think in the future you will lose that point because I think they're going to come
back wrong within.
If you if we get to a point in the future when he is anti space wolf slash like goes,
okay, fair enough.
They look great.
And I love the idea, by the way, of Russ coming back and having that pose that you said like

(01:06:10):
that's fucking cool.
But like a raven on your shoulders.
Oh, yeah.
That's the other one.
Like a tactical role as it currently stands.
Fuck that range.
Terrible range.
Subjective one.
Terrible color scheme.
Terrible.
I disagree.
I actually really like that color scheme.
Gross.
Yellow with pale blue.

(01:06:31):
No, that's cool.
No, I disagree.
No, I disagree.
I think you're awful.
No, I actually don't disagree.
30k, right?
With that harsher gray, that darker gray and the red.
Yeah.

(01:06:52):
I'm all about that.
That yellow contrasting with that sort of pale blue.
I look at a army of space wolves and I'm like, oh, that's that's garish.
I do think.
It's fucking garish.
If you paint it correctly in the grim dark enough fashion and not in the clean fashion
that most people like to copy these days, I think that they look very cool.

(01:07:14):
And I think that like that rugged, that rugged sort of pop of color, it looks nice in a way.
Oh, you're going to use snow bases there, right?
Oh, yeah.
I thought so.
I like the Mars bases.
I love a bit of rust.
Yeah, but for space wolves, it's like, oh, I see what you've done there using snow on
your base.
Oh, great.
Original.
No, fuck that scheme.
I quite like it.
Okay.

(01:07:35):
It's very subjective.
It's subjective.
It's art, right?
I find it a horrible mashup of mustard yellow, sort of periwinkle blue and leather brown,
shit brown.
And I'm just like, oh, God, no, like, fuck off.
Like, no.
I think if it's done right, it can look great.
Give me a creamy night any day.

(01:07:57):
Like, fuck off with that shit.
Terrible.
You love creamy nights.
And finally, the point that I have to lead on, and this will be contested, but quite
frankly, I don't give a fuck, but the most overrated Primark of all time.
Way, way, way.
Fuck off, Lehman Russ.
Now you've gone too far.
Yeah, fuck.
No, I'm a lion boy.
Look, there's a watcher on my shoulder.
He's whispering to me.

(01:08:19):
I'm sorry, but what a lame lad.
I've got a space wolf colour on today.
You do.
I am not a fan of Lehman Russ, I think.
Why?
What's your reasoning?
Come on.
I'm just saying, incompetent arrogance is my reasoning.
The whole schtick of Lehman Russ is that he is the Emperor's executioner, and as far as

(01:08:41):
we know, in terms of evidence, he has executed no Primarks compared to other Primarks that
have executed other Primarks.
If you compare his kill tides to Thor...
He had to go at Horus.
Had to go?
Yeah, pinned him to the wall and then pussied out.
He was like, don't hurt my brothers.
And then he pussied out.
He pussied out at the last minute, and that's his whole schtick.

(01:09:01):
That's his whole schtick.
And then kind of back broke the fucking nerdy one.
Come the fuck on.
Compared to Thorgrim, who had two kill counters, one of which was a freaking gnarly Primark,
and one of which was Gilliman's.
Dude, like, no.

(01:09:24):
Overrated arrogance.
I'm glad he's part of the setting because he's a nice foil for other Primarks, but like,
just no.
I think it's a really interesting one because I do have a feeling that Games Workshop is
very aware of this reputation.
And I think looking at the lore and looking at him as a Primark and looking at the Legion

(01:09:45):
as it stands model-wise and just generally the way it's been perceived over the last
20 years, I do think that Games Workshop is aware that there needs to be a change.
And I think that they know that this army needs to mature with its audience.
And I think that what we're going to see, as I said with the range refresh, I do think
we are going to see a bit of a change in Russ as well.

(01:10:08):
I think he's going to come back all the wiser, having basically made this spiritual journey
and having sort of...
You said it really well.
What was it that the lion is?
Yeah, this is my favorite.
You say this quote.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
I like this.
Yeah, so the lion, the relationship, the lion and the wolf is a complicated one, but essentially
like the lion is a beast behind the veil of a man and Lima Russ is a man behind the veil

(01:10:34):
of a beast.
Right.
And I think that basically is going to be what we're going to see.
I think we're going to see the lion as a character start to get more and more aggressive and
almost becoming that headsman that Russ never really was.
And I think we're going to start to see the opposite with Russ, where he's going to start
to become more of like a level headed, almost sort of, you know, Zen kind of being who's

(01:10:59):
going to be very calm and collected and controlled.
And he's going to start to actually be a very strategic sort of important asset to the Imperium.
And I think that we're going to see the Space Wolves Legion adapt and change in a way to
do with that.
And I think obviously they're always going to have that beastial nature.
And I do think that that's there.
And I think that that will stay.

(01:11:21):
But I think it's almost going to be about controlling your temper and sort of knowing
when to let that beast out.
And I think that's what we're going to see is we're going to see an army.
And I imagine it'll follow it with the play pattern.
We're going to see an army here that's going to be quite tactical and quite controlled,
but then have these moments of pure fucking violence where they can just unleash.

(01:11:45):
You kind of see that with the evolution of your standard Space Wolf anyway, providing
they don't go down the helix wolfing route, which is like when they become new recruits,
they kind of age backwards to a regular tactical Marine where they start out as bloodclaws,
where they're like, actually, they start out as close combat specialists.

(01:12:06):
Then they become the Grey Hunters, which are the more tactical guys, but have a bit of
punchy punchy.
And then they eventually end up as a Long Fang, which is a devastating Marine, which
is right at the back, who's like who are the veterans going, hmm.
And I think that's what we're going to see mirrored with the faction.
And I think we're going to see that journey mirrored with Russ as well.

(01:12:27):
And I think he, you know, I'm really interested.
I've said this before, I'm really interested to see where they go with his law.
And I'm really intrigued to see when they bring him back, what pivotal moment they're
going to bring him back and how they're going to do it.
I'm really excited because Space Wolves is an army that if I was going to get into Marines,
it's one of the ones I would actually be tempted by.

(01:12:50):
And I know that you're like, oh, Eddie playing Marines.
Yeah, sure.
But I do kind of like that sort of like feral hit and run kind of, you know, tactical and
then whoomp, you know, coming out the shadows.
And I could see it.
So I'm really intrigued as to where they're going to go with it.
But I do feel like we are going to see that maturing of the faction.
And I feel like the model range will reflect it.

(01:13:11):
Because mechanically, they kind of, for me, share a very similar space to the Blood Angels
in a very strange way, because they kind of mirror each other where they both have varying
degrees of smashy fast units, right?
Well, they're just like, right.
The one thing that I'd like about the Space Wolves mechanically, which is unique, is the
concept of the heroic individual where you have suit up characters, dreadnoughts as well.

(01:13:37):
Yes, identity identifying.
God, can you not wait to see their version of the Brutalis, right?
Well, this is a modern like where they have to if they are going to range refresh, they
will do that.
Well, yeah, fine.
They need to have not only signature dreadnoughts, but very distinct signature dreadnoughts where
that where, you know, they might have the same sashay as fucking as the Redemptor, but

(01:14:02):
with all crazy elements to it.
Yeah, 100 percent.
And that to me, the one thing that I do actually associate with the Space Wolves more than
any other chapter is dreadnoughts.
Yeah, agree.
So they've got some really cool ones.
They've obviously got like a murder find.
They've got Bjorn the foul handed and they've also got their their shield and axe.

(01:14:24):
And actually, they're quite Viking, those dreadnoughts.
If you look at them, they've got like a lot of bones and that's the one thing about the
Space Wolf line that I actually like is their dreadnoughts.
Yeah, really fucking cool.
And they should be.
Yeah, they should.
It's the concept of the elder old heroes of the Imperium that are like the old Vikings
that are like still going and still like pushing through.

(01:14:45):
It's got to be a dreadnought, right?
I'm really excited.
I'm genuinely like that is something that could turn me into space space marines genuinely.
Well, then we would have to do a classic lion versus wolf.
That's just the way it's always going to be.
And I will always be a Dark Angels boy because I know you like I bleed Dark Angels.
But what do you guys think?

(01:15:06):
Was that a fair because I think I did score some points.
You did.
Yeah, it wasn't just me being a ranty bastard.
Like I do think there are some valid points.
I agree.
Thank you.
There is a lot to be desired with the current Space Wolf range and lore.
And I do think that we really we a lot of people are clamoring to see that refresh of

(01:15:29):
the range and that moving forwards of the law.
I think it'll be really cool if they get it right.
If they get it wrong and it's more wanky wolves.
Sorry, I'm not going to get into it.
But if it's like if it's the space Vikings that we all want, then I'm squids in.
Definitely.
Well, we'll see.
We'll see.
And if I've offended you and you are space with player.

(01:15:50):
Sorry.
Sorry.
Loyalty is its own rewards and I have a far superior chapter that I enjoy.
So suck my dick.
But there we go.
Fuck you, Space Wolf.
But please let us know.
I love you Space Wolf players really, because I love to rag on you and you're the easiest
match ever to fight against on the table.

(01:16:11):
Wow.
OK.
There we go.
If anybody wants to call Russ out for a fight to the death with their space was and beat
the shit out of him.
I have a really good track record against Space Wolf.
I have a really high track record.
I don't think I've only lost once.
Anyway, sorry.
I feel like a proper asshole.
You are a proper asshole, Dark Angel.
You like to suck me and I bleed Dark Angels.
A little bit of chaos.

(01:16:32):
Just a tiny bit.
Well, yeah, as we've discovered, I'm apparently snogging them behind the thing.
I'm just like, yeah, the watch is watching me with intent.
He's like, no.
But please let us know what you think.
And I don't mean to offend really.
Yeah, let us know what you think about Space Wolf.
Do you think that you agree with me in that we're hopefully going to see that sort of
maturing range refresh and interesting new stuff going forwards for them?

(01:16:56):
Or do you think that they're just going to remain three wolf moon?
Three wolf moon.
Three wolf moon forever.
But thank you very much, my fabulous co-host, Eddie.
You are a legend as always.
Thank you, Russ.
Equally legendary.
Thank you.
And obviously go and check out the peachy episode if you haven't already because it's
awesome, quite frankly.
And let us know your Q&A questions.

(01:17:16):
Yeah, please do.
But I am down below in the comments.
For the foreseeable future.
But we probably will do a Q&A.
Yeah.
And thank you all for taking this marvelous ride with us.
It's the best.
Love doing it.
Love you all.
See you next week.
Thanks, guys.

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Episode 32: Do Space Wolves Deserve The Hate?

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