Episode 35: What Secret Level’s Warhammer 40k Episode Got Wrong

This week we dive into Amazon Prime’s Secret Level Warhammer 40k Episode; what would we have done differently? What worked and what didn’t? We then discuss some of our favourite Daemon Models before chatting about whether you should varnish your minis. We round out the episode with our Lore discussion where this time we decide if Chaos could (or ever should) win out in the end.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You can have such a cool moment where the guy is like inside the tank and he's

(00:03):
like looking down, you know, down the little sites, whatever to go and fire at
this plague room.
And as you see him looking, you see like rust just start to creep up the inside
of the tank, you know, and he's like, what the fuck is going on here?
And stuff starts clicking.
Yeah.
And like he's just like, oh shit.
Keeping up.
And then, and then he's like, one of his little mates in the back is coughing
and he looks around and he's a fucking plague bear already like coming at him.

(00:25):
Not plague bear.
He's starting to just like cough out his guts or something.
It's just, it's, it's horrific.
Like you, you've got to lean into this shit at some point.
This is what this world's all about.
I guess terrifying, you know, you want to show that it's a classic world war
one meat grinder of like life is cheap, like cheap and it is for everybody.
Like, let's be real, like, like, you know, if you're on the meat grinder

(00:47):
of the Imperium, like your days are numbered, bro.
Yeah.
I mean, I do think like just showing that brutality of those front lines with
the guard, maybe like have a bit where, you know, one of the guys just sees
like sees one of his, his mates just get absolutely melted, like brain melted
by some zinch demon or whatever it is.
And then he turns to run and then his fucking commissar just shoots him in
the back of the head when he's running.

(01:09):
You know, it's like that kind of brutality.
That's what it's like, you know, you need more of that shit.
Like, and that will be so cool to get people in because they're going to watch
this and as a normie, you know, they're going to come in and be like, I get this
because I can see that this is just horrific war and like, you know, it's,
it's fucking brief.
Welcome to the In the Tank podcast.

(01:31):
Get ready for an hour of hot 40K goodness coming in your ears.
So in the tank now, baby.
We're live.
We are indeed live, and then we've had some technical issues.
This one, your face like fucking hell.
I've had enough.
I've never seen you so frustrated.

(01:51):
Like it's terrible.
My microphone wasn't working and then we're just about to record and my camera
just stops working out of nowhere.
And then I'm just like, brilliant.
Cool.
Nice.
Man, my fucking light falls off.
Montesca.
It's just, it's all happening.
Russ is 15 minutes late.
The cunt.
We'll get there in the end.
I do have excuses, but it's all good.
It's all good.
Yeah.
So how have you been my man?

(02:11):
How's your hobby week been?
It's been great.
Just smashing your barn, right?
I have been smashing my barn.
Yeah.
I've been smashing it.
That's all I've been doing.
I've been painting the barn and not painting any models, which is a shame, but
we're getting through the barn painting.
It's almost done.
Mate, you've had an amazing 2025 in terms of like painting stuff anyways.
So yeah, I've been doing a lot.

(02:33):
Painter and decorator me.
Changing rooms.
Yeah.
There we go.
That's wicked.
Well, it will all be for the best.
Won't it?
Let's be real.
It will.
It will.
Eventually.
I'll probably through the next few hobby updates will be like barn, barn, barn.
Back on the barn.
Back on the barn.
We're getting there.
Well, if it's any consolation, I've just been stressing my gourd to get stuff done.

(02:58):
Yeah.
It's been one of those weeks and it's only bloody Tuesday.
No, wait, Thursday.
Dad brain.
So I've got my stern guard finished.
Well done.
At least the tabletop ready.
And I've almost got my gladiator done and I need to varnish him and stuff.
Shut up you.
So yeah, so I'm basically almost there.
Just got magnetize all the bases.

(03:20):
Yep.
Dry brush the bases, do the ribbon and we're, we're easy.
Good.
Evan.
These are good.
So yeah, great.
Get in there.
It's all cool.
Looking forward to playing a listener of the channel and he's a discord talking shit.
Yeah.
John, John, he's giving you a lot of shit.
You kind of got to beat him now.
Otherwise you're going to look around.
I love him.

(03:41):
He's a great guy and he's got a beautiful doggo and he's got a
beautiful doggo and he plays very chargey armies and he's a cool guy.
But like, yeah, I mean, this would be when this comes out though, the
tournament would have already happened.
So either I got spanked or I indeed spanked, but it's a tough turn.
Like round one against old bully boys.

(04:01):
Russ has been messaging me like, what the fuck are bully boys?
And I'm like, they're these sort of big mean looking or what?
So no, I know what they are.
I just didn't know what the hell to do against them.
Uh, die.
Yeah.
Well, this is it.
I'm not even going to look, but we'll see.
I mean, to be fair, I have quite a lot of good mid range shooting.
Yeah.
So hopefully-
Don't front line that and you'll be fine.

(04:23):
I know it's really hard to resist, but like-
John is the world eaters player that did that.
You didn't realize, right?
He did what?
You did that to yourself.
You can't blame him for it.
You did that by taunting me behind me constantly.
Yeah.
You infiltrated your terminators in front of a world eaters army and
you paid the price.

(04:43):
Whatever.
Whatever.
Well, we'll see.
We'll see what happens.
We'll give you an update everybody next week.
But of course I'm playing the onslaught, not the UI, you scuzzy boy.
It's really rude because one of my family members decided to have
her 40th birthday on this party on the same weekend, which is just so rude of her.
So now I've got to go to that.
So-
Bloody rude.

(05:04):
Bloody rude.
Yeah.
No consideration for Warhammer.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All that life thing happening outside of the hobby.
What's that about?
What's that about?
But yes, looking forward to playing.
It's going to be lovely to see some of our beautiful listeners at the onslaught.
Yeah.
Despite the fact that Eddie's a sucker, won't be there.
So come up and say hi and yeah, it'll be lovely.

(05:25):
But we do have some good news on that front.
Russ is now confirmed to be coming along to the team event in, is it,
April?
It is, yeah.
So that'll be good fun.
He's going to be an unofficial try hard for the weekend.
So we'll get him a team shirt.
You better fucking not.
You better fucking not.
You've got to wear one, mate.

(05:45):
Otherwise you can't play.
So that's going to be a fucking great picture.
I'm an XXL.
So that's something to bear in mind.
Don't worry.
I wasn't going to lend you one of my smalls.
Or you'll wear the tank top.
Can you imagine?
No, it's gross.
I don't even want to imagine.
I don't even want to imagine Buddy wearing a team jersey, quite frankly.

(06:07):
But there we go.
I will be a guest try hard for the day.
I'm actually quite looking forward to that.
It's going to be really fun.
Yeah, it's going to be great fun.
We need to get old Michael on the old pod at some point.
We do.
How to be a great TO.
Yeah, exactly.
We love you, Michael.
How to just paint terrain and never paint any models, Michael.
Well, to be fair, I think he does paint models.
No, he said he never gets time to because he always paints in fucking new terrain sets.

(06:30):
He's a legend.
I think he is actually playing in the event as well.
Oh, is he?
Oh, yeah, that's cool.
Nice.
There we go. So we'll give you all the update about that next week, whether I got absolutely
destroyed or whether I did all right.
We shall see.
We'll find out.
I'm hopeful for you.
I think you got a good list.
Well, Librarian, it's quite a nice I can handle anything master of none list.

(06:52):
Yeah.
So it'll be me paying.
I've always looked at you as a master of none.
It's a matter of what you say.
Excuse me.
This is really fucking rude.
So if you consider what I do for a living, you can jog on me.
That's actually true.
You do.
Exactly. I'm hyper.
I actually am quite good at fingering.
I'm a hyper specialized. I have you know. So there we go.

(07:13):
So first. So.
Russ is a guitar teacher.
Professional guitarist.
You know that anyway.
Yeah.
Used to be.
Hey now. You behave yourself.
I'll give you a little bit of like thrift because of where you've been at this morning.

(07:36):
But you know, I'm still alive behind my veil.
You better be.
So first.
So first subject.
Secret level.
Yes.
What do we think about the secret level?
What could we have done differently?
Because I know that I've had a lot of like sort of, I suppose,

(07:56):
civilians talk to me about secret level because they know that I'm a hobbyist and they've gone like,
oh I watched the secret level thing. It was quite cool.
What do you think they did good?
What do you think they did bad?
What do you think they could have done?
I quite like you to go first on this one because I'm really interested to hear your opinion on this one.
I had a mixed emotional reaction to secret level, if I'm honest.

(08:18):
On one hand, it demonstrated absolutely perfectly just how demigod like your average space marine is.
Because I had general feedback that there was a scene in that.
Spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen it.
You probably should have bloody seen it by now.
And if you haven't go and fucking pause this and you know watch it.
There's a bit where a load of chaos cultists come out on a load of bikes and stuff and storm these three.

(08:42):
I think it's three ultramarines.
One of them, of course, being Titus from the Space Marine Games.
And everyone was like, I really enjoyed that scene because it highlighted just how powerful three space marines were.
I think it was four.
A lot of people were like, holy shit, these guys are in trouble.
And then they just killed everyone.
They just smashed everyone.

(09:03):
They were smashed into the transport and stuff.
So it highlighted how powerful space marines are.
I'll be honest.
And it was gorgeous to look at.
It was absolutely gorgeous to look at.
In terms of limitations of animation and stuff like that, it pushed it to the extreme and I quite enjoyed it.
Although it did feel to me like a bit of a Space Marine 2 cut scene.

(09:26):
Basically a long cut scene.
The one thing I didn't like about it was that it was just quite a little bit pretentious in terms of the plot.
And it didn't really give you much context as to what the fuck was going on.
Where it was like, don't go very young.
You don't have to spoon feed your audience what the hell is going on at all times.

(09:47):
But it was really esoteric and really dreamy.
And a lot of people asked me to explain it after the fact.
And I was like, I don't know if I really can in a way that would make sense.
Where it's actually a little bit interpretational.
It was just a bit up its own arse at times.

(10:09):
And I was like, could this have been better if it would have been a guard regiment or something?
I think that was fighting a load of chaos or tyrannies or something.
And then some Space Marines showed up at the end and they were like, oh the angels of death.
And it was all epic and like whatever.
I don't think you really got a sense of the setting that much from it, if that makes sense.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think you're bang on.

(10:30):
I think that that bit when they were running down the canyon towards the Marines and they were just fucking them up.
That's the bit that everyone clips and plays.
It's all the shorts of that on YouTube.
And for a reason.
Because it's fucking kick ass.
It's cool.
It's just my favorite bit about that is because obviously Lieutenant Titus is walking along carrying this big sort of coffin like metallic slab on a chain.

(10:55):
And obviously his sort of leading is, I can't remember what rank his sort of commanding officer, whether he was a sergeant or what it was.
But he was like walking alongside him.
And then there's this bit where basically Titus just sort of drops the chain and just goes off the hinge and just goes and fucks up this tank.
Like shoulder barges through it and then blows up another tank.
And there's a look that the sergeant looks towards him as if to say, you little fucker, you cheeky bastard.

(11:21):
You're running off doing naughty things again, Titus.
Like he was off the leash a little bit there.
He's certainly not codex compliant.
Yeah, that was a little bit cheeky.
So I thought that was great.
That really did it for me.
And it was like the drop pod sequence was just really well done.
And I loved that.
So that was great.
But I do think the bit where they sort of went down the hole and all gravity went all sideways.

(11:45):
And it was all like a little bit dream sequence with that zinch demon.
It was really cool.
Don't get me wrong.
But I think it's almost like because the guy who worked on Astartes was working on this, right?
He was one of the head guys that worked on it, I believe.
And it's almost like the guys at Games of Watch were like, you know that bit you did in Astartes with the chaos cyclists that were like doing all the force fields.

(12:05):
Yeah, let's do that.
Let's just do that.
But with like a zinch demon.
And it just got a little bit, as you said, up its own ass.
Also, it was very dark, like almost so dark you couldn't see what the fuck was going on to a degree.
And I was a little bit like, you know, people who aren't clear what this giant statue of a zinch demon, like a big bird boy, are normies who are going to go and watch that.

(12:32):
Just because they're watching the secret level stuff.
They're going to be like, what the fuck am I watching here?
I think it could have been way more normie friendly.
I feel like they should have just done it against tyrannids or something.
Yeah.
Because, you know, if you're going to use Sergeant Titus, especially, because I didn't even realise it was him to begin with.
Yeah.
Like the first time I watched it, I was like, oh shit, that's him at the end of it.
For some reason, I just sort of didn't catch that.
I almost feel like they should have just grounded it in the, if they were going to do that, just ground it in the space marine 2 kind of ethos, kind of just keep that line and make it so fucking obvious what's happening here.

(13:03):
Yeah.
You know, or even go back and do some orc action from space marine 1, you know, just obvious combat and like an obvious nice flowing story for people to just grasp and be like, okay, this is cool.
Rather than being like, what the fuck's happening here?
I actually think Titus being in it was actually a massive distraction.
Yeah, I agree.
I wouldn't have put him in it at all.
No.

(13:24):
But seeing as he was in it, they might as well have gone a different way with it.
Yeah.
It just seemed really such a weird choice because it's like, then where does that fit in the canon of space marine?
Like then who they trying to attract?
Like, are they trying to make Titus like sort of Mickey Mouse like space marine?
It's an interesting one because they were trying to sort of like make the point that Titus has no fear.

(13:46):
Right.
And if you watch the clip where the zinch demon is killing the other marines, it's a subtle thing.
It's sort of blinking, you'll miss it.
But when he's reflected in their eyes, all of the ones that he kills, their pupils are dilated because they are shit in their pants.
Yeah, which is interesting because space marines are supposed to know no fear anyway.
This is like, yeah.

(14:08):
But like Titus, if you look at him, when he does all the sort of weird eye gash opening stuff, his pupils are not dilated because he's not shitting himself.
He's just ready and then he fucks him up.
And that's an interesting, cool little addition.
But I feel like almost all of them shouldn't have been like that really.
Yeah.
As I said, you know, they know no fear, right?
Yeah, that's kind of that whole shtick.

(14:29):
Yeah.
That's like literally their entire shtick.
So that kind of didn't make a vast amount of sense to me.
It was cool for Titus.
Like it made him look like a fucking badass, right?
And it was a cool moment splitting that thing in half with all the blood and the I did like the sort of glowy blood that they had.
That was cool.
I mean, the glowy blood from artistic's viewpoint, I suppose, did contrast quite well with the darkness.

(14:51):
But I just in terms of like, for me, it didn't really feel like this should have been for long time fans per se.
Yeah.
In as much as we have Warhammer Plus kind of, we have Astartes kind of, we have like other things that we can go and watch and enjoy.
As people that love the hobby, we can kind of get our fix elsewhere.
Yeah.
Does that make sense?

(15:11):
This should have been a great Umbarella catch net for normies really to like get them in as an indulgent kind of like, let's grab you.
And I just don't think it was well thought out to be that.
And I think it just didn't make sense for normal people.
I think you're right.
I think you're bang on because if I was, you know, I showed a couple of normie people in my family who don't play Warhammer, the thing, and they were like, oh, that's really cool.

(15:38):
But they didn't get it at all.
They were like, well, so what was happening?
And there was a lot of explanation needed.
And I didn't feel necessarily like all the other secret level videos were like that to that extent.
There was one or two that were a little bit like, you know, you had to kind of get what the original thing was about to figure it out.
But, you know, watching it as someone who knows the setting, even I was a little bit confused at times the first time I watched it as to what the fuck was happening.

(16:02):
So I can see why people would be like really cool bit with all the fighting in the valley and the little, you know, bits with the cultists and their vehicles and that.
That was great.
But then the rest of it, I think what I would have done differently personally is I would have almost just remade the Dawn of War 1 cinematic.
Right.
But just like in modern animation, expand it a bit so that there's a bit more of a human, like as in a bit more of a human from the space marine's perspective element of trying to really get that hill against the orcs or the nids or whatever the fuck it is in this case.

(16:36):
And like, you know, that panning out shot always blows me away, even though it's a really old animation now, like when he pops up the fucking banner in the soil, he should have worn a helmet, by the way, because he got shot in the neck and he wouldn't have done if he'd worn a helmet.
But that bit where it zooms out, you see all the drop pods coming down at the distance like that really sells it for you and kind of gives you that sense of scale of the Marines and like.

(16:59):
Me and you on a very similar wavelength there because like you kind of want to peak a watchers interest to want to know more.
Right.
But by then completely isolating them, you really fuck it because then they almost like overwhelm where it's like, I have no idea what's going on.
Right.

(17:19):
Make it a group of guardsmen, make it a group of guardsmen fighting on the front lines and making it seem like their battle that they're having is like mega important.
This is how I would have done it.
Right.
I know where you're going with this.
Whether it would have been chaos or whether it would have been a tyrannids or something.
Right.
Yeah, whatever.
And had that and within 20 minutes get like likable characters that are interacting and joking with each other.

(17:45):
And then over time, like maybe a couple start dying and stuff.
Right.
And it's like.
Pull the old heartstrings.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And then like, you know, you get to the end and they have their like little victory or whatever.
And then one of two things happens at the end, right.
Just to kind of lay the setting on of like what the hell the setting is all about.
Right.
Either they look across the like thing and just see endless like streaming like hundreds of thousands of tyrannids.

(18:14):
They're fucked.
You know.
Smashing into like other stuff.
And they're just like, oh, my God, or a spaceship in the sky go like.
Like the whole planet gets exterminated.
Yeah.
I mean, that'd be really cool.
Like, I do think that they could have lent into the grim dark aspect of the setting a little bit more.

(18:35):
I think what was really cool.
And this is another animation that we've had recently was the sort of trailer for Space Marine 2.
Where obviously Titus comes down and there's all the guardsmen and they're like, oh, my God, it's his angels.
Like, you know, it's fucking massive.
And you realize the scale of this dude and he basically just comes in and absolutely bitch slaps at a tyrant and rips a warrior in half and cuts his head off and stuff.

(18:56):
Like that is very cool because it kind of gives you that sense of scale as a normie.
I could watch that and be like, holy fuck, those guys are well cool.
Like he's massive.
Yeah.
And I kind of like the idea of almost what you were saying about with the guardsman idea.
I think it'd be really cool to have almost, you know, part of a battle where you're following these guardsmen, you're getting to know them.

(19:20):
I'd almost go down a Fury style where you've got like a Bane blade or something.
Yeah, Leman Russ.
Yeah, or Leman Russ.
But like something big, you know, something solid, like maybe a Rogal Dawn meeting in the middle.
Like something, a proper solid tank, right?
That's going through and it's like getting fucked up and these guys are, you know, really having a struggle to keep it going through the mud and like, you know, the enemy and whatever.

(19:41):
And it's really gritty and people are dying here and there and that sort of stuff.
And then at some point a fucking drop pod just comes down and these guys just absolutely come out and just lift this foe.
And they're like, holy shit.
Like we are little, you know, we're little pussy ass bitches compared to these guys.
I think guardsmen are the perfect thing. And this is why I think when we talk about Warhammer Plus in the future, Amazon in the future, the Amazon show, I think guardsmen are perfect because they're so easy to self project on as a watcher, right?

(20:13):
Yeah.
You go, ah, that's a human.
And when you look at a space marine as a watcher, you go, ah, that's a human.
It's like, no, no sweets of a child.
Let's stand next to each other now you'll see which one's a real human.
And also in terms of what a space marine is capable of, right?
Yeah.
Like, I don't know, man, like I love one of my things that I love about this setting the most.

(20:33):
And it's a weird psychological thing.
And I don't know if it's the same thing for what Cthulhu fans like.
And we've talked about it before on pod, which is feeling so tiny in this massive world, which for me makes me feel weirdly like settled and like, like chill.
But it's like, and I imagine for some people completely overwhelmed and like tiny and minuscule.

(20:54):
Right. But I love how it kind of makes you feel like one, like you're kind of just part of this great earth kind of thing.
Yeah.
And yeah.
And I think doing that and forcing that upon your watcher where you're like, look, even these guys, this Bane Blade or whatever, like it's kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Or possibly even getting, taking them ages, get this Bane Blade into this position that the Bane Blade just gets like, tank, tank, like just.

(21:22):
Just fucked, yeah.
You know, you just like, oh, fuck, it was all relevant.
I also think there's some really cool, like, you know, one of the nice things about Space Marine 2 is that you just get that sort of overwhelming sense of just how, as we've said in the past, how much of an unstoppable tide the nids are.
Dread.
And they're just terrifying because there's just endless amounts of them.
They're vicious as fuck.

(21:43):
Like, that's one kind of scary, but there's so many different types of scary in this world.
And one of the ones I love is things like Death Guard.
You know, the idea of like, of like basic guardsmen facing off against something like Death Guard or even just plague, plague bearers and that sort of stuff where they're just like boiling up in all these diseases and they just can't do anything.

(22:04):
They're just dying and then coming back as Pops Walkers and turning on their foes and like scraping at the tank and all this sort of stuff.
And then obviously the Marines are going to be a little bit harder to take down in that fashion because they've got a lot of resistance to the diseases, et cetera, et cetera.
But it'd be cool.
Like, just show a bit of that.
We want to see how fucking awful it is to just get your ass melted by like horrific demons.

(22:25):
Again, you could kind of do that in waves, right?
You could do it where like to start off with like the guardsmen are like putting on respirators or whatever and it's like green gac in everywhere.
And then to start with, it's like cultists and they're like, oh, they're quite, they're tougher than we expected.
And then it's Pops Walkers and it's like zombies and the watch is like, what the fuck is going on here?
And then the starting of like plague Marines and that just that dreads of like, oh no, like what are we going to do?

(22:53):
Like, we can't deal with this.
You can have such a cool moment where the guy's like inside the tank and he's like looking down the little sites, whatever, to go and fire at this plague Marine.
And as you see him looking, you see like rust just start to creep up the inside of the tank, you know?
And he's like, what the fuck is going on here?
And stuff starts clicking.
Yeah.
And he's like, oh shit.

(23:13):
And then he's like, one of his little mates in the back is coughing and he looks around and he's a fucking plague bear already like coming at him.
He's starting to just like cough out his guts or something.
It's horrific.
Like you've got to lean into this shit at some point.
This is what this world's all about.
It gets terrifying.
You know, you want to show that.
It's the classic World War One meat grinder of like life is cheap.

(23:35):
Life is cheap.
It is for the guard.
It is for everybody.
Let's be real.
Like if you're on the meat grinder of the Imperium, like your days are numbered, bro.
Yeah.
I do think like just showing that brutality of those front lines with the guard, maybe like have a bit where one of the guys just sees one of his mates just get absolutely melted, like brain melted by some zinch demon or whatever it is.

(23:59):
And then he turns to run and then his fucking commissar just shoots him in the back of the head when he's running.
You know, it's like that kind of brutality.
That's what it's like.
You know, we need more of that shit.
And that will be so cool to get people in because they're going to watch this and as a normie, you know, they're going to come in and be like, I get this because I can see that this is just horrific war.
And like, you know, it's fucking brutal.

(24:20):
Well, that's how you sell it to people, right?
Where you like think of the most epic conflict that you could ever think of as you know it in any media or any any historical element of what you enjoy.
Right.
And amplify that by a thousand in every single direction.
And that is the one USP, like the grim dark sort of conflict like sort of style is like the massive USP bit that and daddy issues.

(24:49):
Right.
We love daddy issues.
Daddy.
Very Freudian, very Freudian.
And you know, and that's it.
And that's the uniqueness of the setting.
Right.
That's it.
You personified what it means to enjoy 40k in that way.
But I think you can easily do that in an animation of that sort.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you could you could easily, you know, tug at the heartstrings, get some really cool enemies in there, show off the Marines a little bit, you know, just to show how badass they are compared to your regular men.

(25:16):
And I think that's kind of what you almost need, like is to show that so that people can kind of look at it and go those space marine guys are fucking cool.
Like, because that bit with the valley that we said at the start, that was fucking cool.
There's one bit in particular that was burned into my retina where the cultist like pistols the other.
Yeah.
And then he just danged his fucking like, yeah, doesn't he just smash it?

(25:37):
Oh, yeah, I can't remember.
Yeah, I can't remember either way.
He just takes it.
He just smashes his head on his helmet and kills it.
It's brutal.
Yeah.
As we know, Marines make dollar.
They do.
Like they make that shit rain.
So, you know, like make them look cool.
Make them look cool.
And make the enemy look terrifying.

(25:57):
Yeah.
Even with Marines.
Yeah.
It's not a guaranteed victory, right?
No.
Like actually like.
I think we do need more of that.
We need more like chaos-y kind of goodness in there.
And like we need more chaos Marines because I don't think we've really seen chaos Marines.
We have in some animations, a lot of fan made animations, but like there's not really.

(26:20):
I'm really looking forward to see what Astarte 2 is going to be about.
Because obviously I think it's going to be coming late this year.
Is it?
Maybe 26.
We're not sure.
But that's very exciting.
Well, we will talk about that one as well.
Once it comes out, obviously.
Well, very quickly, because we've talked about this subject quite a lot,
but one of my favorite things in terms of like chaos Marines and their interaction with like

(26:41):
vanilla kind of characters or guardsmen or whatever, right?
Is in, I think it's the first Gorg's ghost model when they like encounter one chaos space.
Yes.
And the chaos space we just almost bodies the entire like Tanneth.
I think it's Iron Legion.
Sorry.
Iron Hand.
Not Iron Hands.
Iron Warriors.
Yeah, he is.
I think so.
But the cool thing, the cool thing and the small detail that I love, right,

(27:04):
is just looking upon the like heretical runes on the case of chaos space and makes guardsmen like throw up.
Yeah.
So just looking at the profanity of it.
Like the fact that that thing exists in front of you
and it's like the personification of chaos in front of you will make your body violently ill.

(27:26):
Yeah.
Just look upon it.
Have it with psychic stuff, like you'll have like a chaos psyker
and the waves of like psychic energy just nauseate and like completely confuse people
and dumbfound them.
They can't, like their heads are ringing and they can't even think
and it's like whole frost creeping up everywhere.
I love that shit.
Like there's a really cool bit in the Eisenhorn series

(27:47):
where he's like communicating with this guy and it's like the whole room is just freezing
and it's so cool.
Yeah.
And that's the point, detail it.
Go into that finer like detail because that's the bit that will make people go like, oh.
But yeah, I think in this instance, make it human,
make it easy for normies to digest.
It's not really for us.

(28:08):
Like make it so it's nice for them to enjoy.
We've discussed this with like the Amazon TV show that Henry Cavill's leading up.
You know, we were really, we're all as a wider community, I think,
intrigued to see where they start with that.
Like do they start with Gaunt's Ghost?
Do they start with like an Eisenhorn kind of series?
Do they just go in with the Marines?
I feel like they're going to glide us in a bit gently.

(28:29):
And I think that's the right call.
Rather than getting Henry to be like, I am, you know, the emperor.
Because I know he wants to be and he will probably be at some point,
but like, you know, take it gently.
Take it gently.
Otherwise people are going to be like, what the fuck am I watching?
Well, you have one chance here.

(28:50):
Yeah.
And if you fuck it up, then you've really fucked it.
If you go full Rings of Power on us.
Well, shut up.
I love Rings of Power.
I know you.
But like, I, yeah, I mean, it's an impossible task.
We'll talk about this as it kind of unfolds
and this won't be our first time to do it.
And we're not going to be one of those content creators are like,
Amazon TV.
Well, I mean, you've noticed that we've literally waited

(29:11):
hot months since this was released to discuss it because we didn't want to just be like,
bandwagon.
Yeah, yeah.
There we go.
But let us know your thoughts and you should be, you should be reminding me to do this,
but like, comment and subscribe folks.
Well done.
That was faster than last week.
It only took you about half an hour.
Last week you finished, you did it at the end of the episode.

(29:32):
You should actually, it benefits us both.
No, it's too much fun.
I'm sorry.
It's become a mini game for me.
Everyone enjoys it.
You're such a Necron Troll.
You love it.
You just love it.
I love it.
You love it.
But yes, please like, comment, subscribe, check out our Discord.
Ask on our Discord.
We've got more people joining every day.
We've got like 30 people in there.

(29:53):
That's great.
That's great.
Like posting shit all the time.
We've got Patreon as well for those of you that want to support the show and a massive
thank you to our current Patreons because you know, you guys help us do this every week,
make it more affordable for us.
Oh my God.
Yeah, it's really actually very handy indeed.
And you can shit talk me on Discord as well.
There's a lot of shit talking you on Discord that goes on.

(30:14):
A lot.
I'd say that like 70% of the conversation in Discord is basically people taking the
piss out of Russ and Spacey.
If you'd like to do that, come and join us.
It's great.
It really triggers him.
Oh God.
Okay.
Cool.
There we go.
See, I have a feeling my first round of John is going to be trolling me.
Oh, he's going to be, it's going to be bad.

(30:35):
Like there's a quite a lot of people that are like fans of the show that are going as
well.
I know.
You're going to get a lot of shit that weekend.
I know.
I figured that out.
Try not to get tilted.
Well, you got recognized, didn't you?
But in public.
Yeah.
It was quite funny because I was in one of my old local games workshops in Milkenes the
other day.
And I always, whenever I go in there, I always come and look and see if anyone was playing.

(30:56):
There's a couple of guys playing Necrons versus Genie Stealer Colts.
And I was like, oh, but my army's playing.
And then the guy was like, yeah, I know.
I was, I just sort of, you know, off comment, offhand comment.
I thought nothing of it for a second.
It was a bit like, okay.
And then went off and, you know, I was just looking around the shop with my mate and
then left it. And then he pinged up in the discord and he was like, who fucking walks
over to my game?
But Eddie himself.

(31:19):
But he was playing, um, Gene Stealer Colts, the brood brother of Auxilia, the mad lad.
And he actually won his game against Necrons.
So fucking good work because that is a shit detachment.
So, uh, you got, yeah, that was an uphill struggle, mate.
You did well though.
Just goes to show you pay a nichey thing.
Sometimes that works.
And the Patriot proud.
The Patriot.
Got this massive pile of axes all the way to the top.

(31:42):
P recipient, they could have xq pay you my
And that shit, I really couldn't, why would the Patriot pay me only to get
demons on our first part of Secret Level bit.

(32:02):
What are our favourite demon sculpts and why?
There are some good ones, aren't there?
There are some good ones.
There are some good ones.
You can start this time.
I'll start.
Okay, so I've mentioned this before on Pod,
but one of my favourite demon miniatures of all time
is Scarbrand's current iteration.
I absolutely love him.

(32:24):
I think he looks fucking mean.
He's got these gnarled up wings.
He's all like, you know, his face is all half torn off
from where Korn just flicked him
when he sort of tried to have a little scrap with Korn.
I get the impression that it was just him like,
eh, and just like bangs on Korn's ankle.
And Korn's like, flicked.
Such hubris.

(32:44):
Such hubris.
Like, how did he think that was ever going to end well?
I have no idea.
But I respect his bones for that.
So, yeah, I think Scarbrand's model is awesome.
It just looks like a real mean bloodbath.
Beam. Machine.
Exactly.
I do like how you can see his skull on his face.
I think that's a really cool touch.

(33:05):
Very.
Where he's grinding his face over hundreds of miles
in space or whatever.
And his wings are fucked as well.
Yeah, they're all tattered up.
He's got those fucking great axes.
I think he's got a couple of axes.
He just looks mean.
He's just in such a great pose.
He's such a great...
I'd love to do a...

(33:25):
If I ever do demons as an army, if they somehow hang around
after 10th edition, I'd like to do all my demons
like monocolor across the whole army.
I love the idea of doing like a sort of black with gold.
I've seen somebody else do it.
I think it was in one of the...
I think it was in like the Oxford Discord
or something like that.
But they just look so nice with that like brassy gold armor

(33:49):
and black skin on them.
Like bellacor, you know, that kind of color.
So I think he'd look amazing.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's the classic corny color scheme.
Isn't it?
Corny.
Yeah, but no red.
That's what I'm saying.
Black skin.
No red.
You can have a pop of red.
Pop of red on like cloth, but black skin, black gray,
and then gold trim.

(34:10):
Let me sit with that.
Let me sit with that.
It's good.
Trust me, I've seen it.
It looks hot to trot.
Really does.
I'm gonna give you my first one.
So I'm gonna go with like a medium sized,
size one to choose, but I just love how gross
and cool this model is.
This is actually probably my favorite demon model.
It's Horticolor Slimux.

(34:30):
Oh yeah, old Horticulus Slimux.
Slimux or whatever it is.
Yeah, he's the head gardener in old Nurgle's realm.
That's him.
So he's like, he's there helping to cultivate Nurgle's
horrible, sappy, horribleness.
But yeah, no, very cool.
Obviously he's a plague bearer on top of what looks

(34:51):
like a massive demonic, snaily thing.
Which is really, really, really cool.
He's really cool.
Who's the famous landscape gardener that he's based on?
Is it Horticulus?
Titchmarsh.
No, he's the guy that did all the gardens
at like Blenham Palace and all that sort of stuff.
Oh really, is he based on him?
Yeah, I think his name is based on him.

(35:12):
I need to fire, I can't remember off the top of my head.
But he's a very famous landscape gardener.
Comment it below if you can remember.
Oh cool, what an Easter egg.
What an Easter egg.
But yeah, I'm pretty sure that's who he's based on.
I just love his crazy scissors are just gnarly
and really cool.
The snail is super cool.
The snail looks so, kind of like,
my heart goes out to the snail.

(35:33):
Cause on one part it's obviously a horrific demonic
like creature of Nurgle.
But the snail doesn't look like he's having the best time.
No, he doesn't, does he?
He's just like, yeah, kill me.
Like the cool, I think it'd be really fun to paint
cause of like the shell and stuff, right?
It's really cool.
I do want to get it at some point.
And mechanically it used to have this really cool ability
where it would plant.

(35:54):
Yes, the garden of Nurgle.
The garden, right?
The, well, the tree thing, the gnar more like tree Nurgle
thing, but no, I don't think it does.
But just really cool model, very unique sculpt.
I think he's also got a Nurgling on like a,
like a thing to help the snail like, you know, move.
Nurgle demons really do have some very good models.

(36:15):
Like they've got real personality.
But I'm going to take it away from demons
to a different type of demon.
The Avatar of Cain, who is technically a demon
because he has the demon keyword.
And I think his new, he's had some cool skulls
over the years, but his latest one is just pure sex.

(36:36):
It is awesome.
I love the fact that you can change the wailing doom
between like spear, axe, sword, et cetera.
And that he's got a few different like face options,
head options, hair options, or whatever you want to call it.
He just so meaty and he just looks mean.
You've got the burning, the bloody hand of Cain or whatever.
It's just so cool.

(36:57):
I think that model had to be a home run, didn't it?
In terms of like how iconic that model is.
They did nail it actually to the point
where it even makes me go, and I hate Space Elf.
I despise Space Elf.
If I could literally have an army of like eight avatars,
I'd probably do it as it stands.
Just play an acorn, it's just a catan.
It's the same sort of thing.

(37:17):
No, god, filthy Xenos.
No, ooh.
Six for ten.
Avoid that.
I'm not going to marry your silly Xenos.
Or snog him.
But like, yeah, no, avatars are cool.
Avatars are great.
Obviously a shard of Cain himself.
Yes.
And just gives that what you need from that model,
which is an intimidation factor.

(37:39):
You look at that and you shit your britches and you go,
oh no.
And you know, he's got that new,
I think is it the, what do they call the little warrior
leaders for their cast in Nelda?
The, there's a detachment.
Phoenix Lords?
Yeah, yeah, the Phoenix Lords.
So there's a detachment that benefits all of them.
And he gets a benefit in it as well.

(38:00):
And I think he's got like some kind of strat
that gives his like attack eight damage or something stupid.
He only has one shot, but he's like re-rolling hits of one
or like wins of one or whatever you want.
And you just basically blap it out
and just hope you get like a D3.
I think he's got sustained D3 or something.
If you roll a six, you're just going to fuck somebody's day up.
As you do.

(38:21):
As you do.
Oh my God.
Grossness, grossness.
So you got Avatar.
Avatar, Avatar, Avatar.
Ooh, so I'm going to go back to third ed.
Because I reckon third ed for me with the metal demons.
And we're coming out of like quite blocky, quite kind of,
I think in my opinion that third ed was where the best,

(38:42):
lesser demon sculpt came from.
Yeah.
Right.
And you could choose any of these,
but my two favorites are the blood letters,
where they have those great big axes
and they look like Satan.
They literally look like Satan.
They look like beastmen kind of.
Yeah.
They were quite beasty.
They had long flowy hair.
They did, yeah.
That number of the beast kind of vibe, didn't they?
Yeah, very much that.

(39:02):
And like axes and they were quite chunky
for like their scale.
They were really big and they looked really cool.
Way better than the modern blood letters in my opinion.
That looked really weird.
And looked like they would be tiny little avatars
of a war god, right?
Yeah.
And also the plague bearers as well by that same token.
I actually quite like the modern play bearers actually.

(39:24):
Yeah, they are good.
I've got some of the old metal play bearers
and I have to agree.
The old metal ones are horrific.
Yeah.
Horrific.
They are.
They've got all their really guts hanging out everywhere.
They really just look vile.
They look like they're in agony actually.
I know they're in near to pain,
but they just look like they're having a fucking bad time.
Yes, which maybe doesn't suit modern Nergal as it stands.

(39:46):
Right.
And I'm glad actually that they repconned that
and they made stuff, which is kind of a reason
why I don't like the old Nerglings
because they just look like they're in constant pain
and anguish.
But like the modern Nergal stuff, they're cool.
The modern Nergal stuff looks like they're
having a great old time.
And that takes the edge off that a little bit.
Like if Nergal looks like they're in pain all the time,

(40:09):
then that's quite distressing rather than the-
I kind of like it.
I like the idea.
Yeah, I like it.
But it's grim dark.
It's grim dark to a level that I think-
From the lore, they're kind of like in near to the pain.
I know that's kind of the whole point.
Yeah.
It's the endless gift, et cetera.
But it's a cool idea that they're almost kind

(40:30):
of suffering for their art, if I'm honest.
I kind of like that more.
If no one's seen these, check out Google third ed 40k demons.
Yeah.
I think it was six ed fantasy because they
were the same across both ranges.
But they're great.
They're really cool.
Really hard to get hold of.
I want to get hold of some blood letters for my second ed
word bearers army because I think they look great.

(40:52):
And I love them.
So there we go.
So my final choice, I think, is an obvious one.
And I feel like the whole demon community
would be in outrage if I didn't choose him.
It's Bellacor's new model.
He is just stunning.
He's such a centerpiece.
He is a absolute fucking unit.
He just has such a cool base as well.

(41:13):
It just looks like this altar to chaos.
Obviously, you can put like a dead marine on the bottom
if you want that's been sucked off.
But he's like, ehh.
Yeah, exactly.
So it's just so cool.
I love his sword.
His wings are really massive.
And all of the chains of skulls and stuff hanging from it,

(41:34):
he's just really good.
He's really, really nice.
Bellacor's a really interesting one in as much as.
I think he should have more stuff going on because we
don't see him in the lore that often.
Yeah.
And there was one.
He popped up in that book recently, didn't he?
The Dark Angels one, was it?
Where he was fighting against old evil Forgeman,

(41:57):
archethane guy.
What's his name?
Oh, yes.
He came in with, yes, Vashdor.
Vashdor, that's it.
Vashdor the Archethane.
There was a three-way gangbang there.
Yeah, there was.
He doesn't want him to achieve godhood.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it did seem for a long time that Bellacor

(42:17):
was sort of rival of Abaddon for being the big cheese
undivided.
And he just hasn't had that much presence, which is a shame.
Because I actually think Bellacor is far more interesting
in terms of his motivations and where he's at.

(42:38):
And as you say, his miniature is like,
whoever was on that project needs a raise, because holy shit.
Hurry, Darren, lady.
Take notes, everybody else, because that's
how you bloody do it.
That is literally how you do it.
Sword is cool.
As you say, the sucked-off primaris, as you call it.

(42:59):
Looks great.
Yeah, just awesome.
It's interesting, though, because Bellacor
is a character that obviously exists in AOS as well.
And obviously, as we discussed previously,
AOS takes place in the future of 40K.
Shut up, dozen.
So he's really at the start of his arc.
So I guess he's got a lot longer to be around than.

(43:22):
No.
You fucking hate that theory, don't you?
Ed is not mentally deranged.
He's just trying to put it.
I don't think he genuinely believes this theory,
because if he does, it would be an absolute fool.
All I'm saying is those fucking old ones
look a lot like those old frogs.
You need to chill the fuck out.
Are you suspicious?
No, not even slightly.

(43:42):
No, just no.
It's not how this works.
Yes, I think that they need to stop doing that with demons,
if I'm relatively honest.
I don't know.
It seems like they're sort of moving away
from a complete direct thing now, because obviously, there's
a lot of units in the AOS range that don't exist in 40K at all.

(44:03):
Well, funny enough, my favorite choice of Demon Sculpt
is just one of those.
It is the voice and talent of Slenesh.
OK.
The sigma.
Have you seen these?
Is this the big lad sat on the throne?
No, Google these.
Just Google them quick, because I just

(44:24):
want to see it in real time.
Just put voice slash talent of Slenesh.
So it allows you to make both or either.
But they are these beautifully resplendent.
Basically, they're kind of like Keep of Secrets.
But they're not.
But they're sigma exclusive.
And they're like these regained goddesses.

(44:47):
Oh, so cool.
If I was running Slenesh in 40K, I'd
use that as a proxy for a keeper.
Very cool.
Very cool model.
But again, sigma.
Sigma exclusive.
So I think this is what they need to do.
And then maybe keep the basic bitch demons

(45:09):
as the universal demons between the two.
Because it is a bit confusing that you would have Belacor
in both settings.
That's weird.
Yeah, it is weird.
But also, as you said, it's like an alternate universe
or whatever you're trying to spew.
I don't know.
There's definitely some crossover.
I understand an alternate universe
with conceptual gods like Korn and Slenesh and stuff.

(45:30):
But when it's an individual, that's weird.
I mean, it's not that weird if you
think about the whole theory that every single universe
exists and every possibility exists within it.
So there actually should be a Belacor,
at least in many of those.
Yeah, but by that same token, sigma should be in 40K as well.
It's like, oh, yes, it's the emperor.

(45:52):
But no, it's just no.
For me, it hits my OCD brain where I'm like, no, absolutely
not.
Keep them out of each other's settings.
It's just silly.
But yeah, Belacor's great.
I'll actually say objectively, I think
Belacor's probably the best choice out of all of those.
Didn't he win a miniature of the year when he came out?

(46:12):
I think so.
I think he did.
Yeah, I think so.
I think so.
I think so.
Not surprised.
Technically, we could have also said the demon Primarchs.
But we'll talk about that another time.
Yeah, the demon Primarchs are cool.
We'll rate those later.
Except for the new Angraan.
Mm, new Angraan.
And to be honest, the new Demon Prince model is very cool.
And I've got to make one honorable mention here,
which is talking about your old metal models.
It's not technically entirely a demon,

(46:35):
but the old metal Chaos Spawn, the one that's
got the sort of mouth that's coming out.
Oh, what, the thing?
And all the side arms on its back.
I've got one of those.
And that is one of the coolest models from that time that I own.
I love it.
It's just huge.
And it just looks like this roiling mass of flesh and muscle.
And it's got like a little half a face.
Yeah, I see that.

(46:55):
It's quite distorted.
It's just savage looking.
Quite fucked up.
So yeah, more of that, please.
See, my honorable mention is the Plague Toads from Forgewood.
They are the coolest models ever.
Yeah, they are.
They are cool.
I use them as spawn proxies.
Yeah, they're very cool.
You can use them as like beasts of Nurgle and stuff as well.
Do you like the new Torments for the Chaos Cultists and all of that lot?

(47:17):
Because the Torments?
On one hand, yeah, like you remember the Chaos ACDC bricks?
You know, the first Cultist bricks?
I really do.
The thing I don't like about them, I love them, how they look.
And I think they're fantastic.
And I love the body horror.
I love the Steven Carpenter kind of vibe.
The thing I don't like about them is obviously if you want to take lots of them,

(47:39):
they're going to start looking really samey.
And I don't like that.
And I know it's hard to make that kind of kit modular.
But maybe allow a little bit more leeway in terms of options there.
Because I find them slightly...
I find them bordering slightly into the goofy, if I'm honest.
Like they're almost like trying to be a touch comical in my eyes.

(48:05):
I don't know about that.
I think they're quite horrifying.
No, they are horrifying, but they're just a little bit...
Like the demon faces are a little bit goofy on them, I think.
I think they could have been a lot more horrific looking in their faces.
The body horror is great.
Like the bursting out of a person and having it half dangling off your demonic form.
That works for me.

(48:25):
But just make their faces a little more scary and that would have been an even better person.
But they're cool.
I think what would have been better is something a bit more subtle and crazy.
Like someone going...
Underneath their skin is like the demon trying to bust out.
Do you know what I mean?
Like kind of like moving their body around and stuff.
And obviously the guys that lead them are cool because they've got those sort of like witch king kind of vibes.

(48:47):
Are you referring to the Dark Commune?
The Dark Commune, yeah.
Dark Commune are badass.
Like very, very badass.
Anyway, we digress.
We digress.
So!
So, so!
See, that's just like another like kabunda.
It's kabunda.
So.
Although we haven't said kabunda.
We didn't say kabunda for our demon choice.
What's wrong with us?

(49:08):
Kabunda.
Kabunda.
See, he should have been.
He should have been.
Oh, shit!
Why did we do that?
So lame!
We've missed the opportunity now.
Kabunda.
So there we go.
So varnish.
One of the most unnecessary things, but necessary things in the world, right?
Oh, varnish.

(49:29):
So why is varnish important, Ed?
I think varnish can be very important.
Extremely important.
I actually am only recently converted to varnish, I will have you know.
So I will say, state for the record, that not a single one of my necrons is varnished
in any way, shape or form and never has been.

(49:50):
So.
Nuts.
I think it's very dependent on your army's color scheme and the paints you're using and
all that sort of stuff.
I think I get away with it on the necrons because they're metallic and it just doesn't
seem to rub off very easily for whatever reason.
It's a solid paint.
I don't know what it is about metallic paint.
It just dries quite solid.
Yeah, that's true.

(50:10):
So I get away with it on them.
But I will say that my Gene Steeler Colts are the polar opposite.
And if I don't varnish them, all the paint comes off of them the second I handle them.
So I found that very quickly when I was painting them that I really needed to figure out how
to varnish.
And I watched one of old Duncan's videos on varnishing and he gave me some really cool
tips.

(50:30):
If you haven't watched it, just have a look.
Just type varnishing Duncan and get on there on YouTube.
Varnishing Duncan.
I'm going to varnish Duncan.
Does Duncan varnish like varnish Duncan?
Because honestly, it really does actually make a difference.
And what he basically said to do was because you've got three types of varnish generally
and you can mix in between.

(50:51):
You've got gloss varnish, satin varnish and matte varnish.
And matte varnish, I think personally, looks the coolest because it's quite flat, although
it can make your colors go too flat.
Satin is a nice middle ground, especially for armor or Marines and stuff where you get
a bit of pop and it's a bit tough, but it doesn't rub off as easily as the matte varnish
does.
Whereas gloss varnish, you get that shit on there.

(51:13):
It's encased, but also you look like you're wetter than a fucking otter's pocket, basically.
So I think you need to kind of what he said was to gloss varnish first and then to use
the matte and satin over the areas that you don't want the gloss, basically.
And that works really well.
And what I do is that same thing for my GC other cars.

(51:34):
I just hit them with a gloss varnish, let them cure overnight, come back the next morning,
hit them with the matte varnish all over and then I'll paint on gloss and satin where I
need it.
And I use the airbrush to do it, but I would recommend that you really thoroughly clean
your airbrush afterwards because that shit will gunk it up quick if you don't.
But that's my use of it currently.
I'm a bit more gangster than you, so I... not that gangster, but like I... or sometimes I do.

(52:03):
Oh, I bet I know what you do.
You're a Minotaurum boy, aren't you?
No, I'm not, actually.
Oh, you're not?
No, I'm not.
Okay, good.
No, fuck that varnish.
Be really careful when choosing your varnish, folks, by the way, because some varnish can
leave like... and there was... it used to be terrible, the Minotaurum varnish or the satin
varnish from GW.
You're talking about frosting?
Where it would... yeah, frost, yeah.

(52:24):
Be really careful because I'm... you know, the concept of this is kind of split.
Like, if you get good varnish that you really like and looks great and that you're really
happy with, always varnish your models after you paint them because you're going to be
spending hundreds of hours fucking painting your minis, right?
And then based on the pH level of your sweat in your hands, I have horrendous pH.

(52:46):
Like, I think because I eat a lot of spicy food.
No, seriously, my strings...
Over-sharing.
No, it's not really.
But my strings... it's not really.
It's not really.
My strings, because I'm a professional guitarist, my strings turn black within like three or
four months.
I've always wondered why my hand stung when you shook it.
Really?
Is that actually true?

(53:07):
You're not actually...
I was like...
It's a fact.
I'm the ultimate X-Men, like acid hand.
Acid hand attack.
But yes, no, it fucks my guitar up.
So it fucks my guitars up because my strings don't last very long because my sweat
eats through my strings.
To the point where I was at uni when I was studying and I was playing guitar like eight
hours a day, this pack of strings would last me a fortnight.

(53:29):
Wow.
So there you go.
Fucking hell.
Now destroyed.
Your cock must be tiny now.
It's burnt it away over the years.
Even that was just reasonably sized.
Shoelace.
But like...
Shoelace.
Oh, sorry.
Just down to the bone.

(53:49):
Just like a little spindly.
I assume you're immune to your own acid attack.
Presume so.
But yes, so...
And also because I'm a Dark Angels boy.
Yes.
Deathwing, man.
Oh, yeah.
Hideous.
Like anything white and you're just rubbing off...
Anything light seems to rub off a lot easier than dark.
Worse than black.
Yeah.
I think it's because underneath, if it's a black primer,

(54:14):
if you were to like go through into the black, you don't see it as bad.
You've also got less pigment, right?
Way more pigment, I guess, in darker paints.
So maybe that's why.
I don't know.
Either way, I use Rust-Oleum Crystal Clear Matte Rattle Can Spray,
which is kind of a furniture van.
It's just kind of a furniture van.

(54:35):
But hobbyists use it too.
And it's great.
Though it says it's matte, it actually leaves more like a satiny kind of finish to it.
Like a semi-gloss satiny finish.
And I use that and I just think it's great.
It doesn't at all bloom afterwards so you can't see any frosting.
So that's great.
The only thing I will say, big tip for people when you vanish,

(54:59):
whether you're using a rattle can or whatever,
your temperature of the day is so fundamentally important when you do it.
Never do it when it's too cold.
Never do it when it's too hot.
Has to be just right, as they say, right?
Like you want sunlight probably on it.
You want probably sunlight on it to help it dry effectively.

(55:22):
If you do that at the wrong time of year, you have fucked it.
You've really fucked it.
I just do mine inside.
Yeah, because you're doing it in a...
But I would say wear a bloody face mask, like a proper one,
if you're going to be varnishing through an airbrush.
Because it's not good to breathe that shit in.
Because it will really fuck your lungs up.
Trust me.
You will get clouds of it in your ream and sack.
Unless you've got one of those sort of boxes that sucks all the air out your window,

(55:45):
I would 100% recommend wearing a good respirator mask when you're doing it.
What I would say, like counter to what Russ uses,
is furniture polish or whatever he's on.
I would really recommend AK Interactives, I think it's like ultra matte varnish that they do.
That stuff is so good.
You need to shake it well.

(56:06):
If you've got one of these little wizards that Russ got me, what are they called?
Vortex maker.
If you've got one of those, great.
But you really need to shake it.
I am.
My head is full of moths today.
But yeah, if you give it a really fucking good shape first,
and make sure that you apply it in thin coats if you're doing it through the airbrush or whatever.

(56:26):
But that won't, I've not found any problems with frosting with that at all.
And if you do, another tip from Duncan is to just go,
I think it was Duncan that said this,
was to go over the bits of frosted with just pure contrast medium.
Apparently, if you paint that over the top of it, that can lessen the frosting effect.
So an interesting fix if you do fuck it somehow.

(56:50):
But yeah, I think that it makes a huge difference.
And I was talking to Luke, who was here in the battle barn the other day.
We played a little test game in here, which is really good fun against his Templars.
And his Templars are fucking stunning, by the way.
If you haven't seen them, go on our Instagram.
It's on there.
It's on there, like I took a few pictures on there.

(57:10):
It's absolutely beautiful.
So have a look.
But one of the things we were talking about was that he had a few of the little...
What are those wet...
I'm such an old man.
What are those wet stickers called that you stick on?
What the fuck are they called?
Can I...
Hang on.
Wet stickers?
Yeah, what are they called?

(57:31):
Transfers.
You fuck.
I can't believe you're...
He had a few transfers on his models.
And when you looked at his models, they were really beautiful.
And they had these shiny ass transfers.
Matt Varnish.
And I said, yeah, I was like, you just need to get a bit of Matt Varnish over the top of those.
Yeah, that's what you can paint.
Or satin, if that's what your arm is like.
And it will just completely meld them with the rest of your model and you won't see them.

(57:55):
Wet stickers, guys.
If you got any wet stickers, fucking Matt Varnish those bad boys, then they will disappear.
And they'll look like they're part of the model like you painted them on.
So yeah, that's wet sticker advice.
Wet stickers.
My head is full.
I'm like a Swiss cheese today, mate.
Sorry.
Very, very wet stickers.
My last piece of advice on this, we need to move on to a lore topic.

(58:16):
And this was a funny one.
And this was from a Duncan Rhodes.
And I mentioned this on Pod before.
Check your fucking can or paint pot before you apply it.
Yeah, that is the same video, I think.
Yeah, dude.
Check your fucking can because you don't want to spend...
It's such a hobby thing.
Obvious thing to do.
Where like what Duncan was talking about in the office that he...

(58:37):
The Minotaur and Varnish looks a lot like Leadbelcher.
And someone used Leadbelcher instead of Minotaur and Varnish.
On one of their every metal models that they just painted for the box art or whatever.
Can you imagine how much that would feel awful?
And you can't even like get it off because you haven't fucking varnished.
It's like...
Yeah.
That is misery.
That would kill...
That is misery.

(58:58):
That is misery.
That's hell, innit?
That's hell.
That's like Satan being like, we're gonna make you paint all your models but then spray all them.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
No.
Check your bloody paints.
That is good advice.
Yeah.
There you go.
So yeah, Varnish guys, honestly, it's next level.
Like it really will change your game and it will really protect your models.

(59:21):
Because if you're handling them a lot.
Yeah, if you're handling them a lot, you need it.
Yeah, I agree.
I 100% agree with that.
Very cool.
And then finally, our lore topic of today.
Should and could Chaos ever win?
Whether that's the great game or whether that's against the Emperor
or which Chaos Gods or Gods do we think are capable of winning?

(59:45):
This is an interesting one because on one hand,
the whole point of Chaos is that they're constantly in fighting.
So the context of them actually winning anything is kind of an oxymoron
to the whole point of how Chaos is and stuff.
But by the same token, the awesome plot that could come out of a Chaos victory is outrageous.

(01:00:11):
And unlike the old world where you have to bullshit your way through it and be like,
well, the universe exploded and then it was reformed and blah, blah, blah.
I think just having humanity as these drag survivors in this Chaos universe
that's burning itself out and the baby Emperor reincarnated or something.

(01:00:34):
Do you know what I mean?
There's literally a baby in real space or whatever would just be so cool.
And I don't know.
I think there's so much plot potential for Chaos to win.
And I think one day, I know that the status quo of 40k is to print money, right?
But I think one day it would be kind of cool.
It would be kind of cool.

(01:00:54):
Kill your darlings, right?
Kill your darlings.
I think it's a really interesting one because Chaos unifying is harder than orcs unifying,
because orcs, they sort of, you have to have the biggest, baddest bastard basically to
unify the clans together and get them all working as one.

(01:01:15):
And that war becomes very terrifying to deal with.
But it's a lot harder, as you said, for Chaos to kind of unify under one banner,
because they are at war with each other a lot of the time.
And they've got massively different sort of desires and wants in the universe and the
ways of fighting.
And they've got all this bad blood and history between all the legions.

(01:01:37):
So it would be very hard.
But if anyone could do it, it's probably going to be a bad one, I suppose.
It'd be really interesting to see a world where they unified on the front, you know,
where Abaddon and our big boy Belibkor got together, unified the demons and as many of
the Chaos Space Reinforcers as possible and just came out of the warp as one massive army

(01:02:03):
and basically just started fucking shit up Leviathan Tyranid style.
And I think you'd actually have to see almost all of the other races kind of go, all right,
put the swords down, a hot second, boys and girls, because we need to fucking work together
to stop this or we're all going to be fucked.
Like Aldari, Necrons, they'd all have to stop.
Well, actually, though, controversial opinions of this.

(01:02:25):
And it's the motivation for why the Alpha Legion is so weird about stuff, where the
old ones and the Cabal had a theory that if Chaos does win, it would mean that they're
inevitable demise.
Because they kill humanity or mainly fuck up humanity and that is their power source

(01:02:47):
gone.
Yeah.
Like that's their worshipers, their...
Humanity's raging emotion and murder and...
Exactly.
And also then the fallout of that, that seems to be the primary motivation of Chaos going
forward is to kill the Emperor.
That's all they care about.
It's like kill the Emperor, kill the Emperor, kill the Emperor, kill the Emperor, because
they see the threat of the Emperor being so prevalent.
But what happens then?

(01:03:09):
Like after they kill the Emperor and they do the thing that they do, they tear each
other apart.
They tear each other apart, humanity becomes a used battery.
So a part of me thinks that the Xenoth races have just like stepped back, that the heart
ache of humanity is so prevalent.
But they just like, just go, actually, do you know what?

(01:03:30):
You just deal with that.
Do you know what I mean?
I don't know, because then if humanity goes down...
Yeah.
What's fighting against all the other shit that's going to mess up the galaxy?
Because we already know that the Necrons are not keen on the Nids and that obviously
the Psykings are rocking around trying to set up the Pariah Nexus and all of this stuff.
I mean, it doesn't suit what the Necrons want at the end of the day, because they want

(01:03:51):
that Pariah project, right?
And they want to re...
They're trying to nullify Psykix.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So they don't want that, right?
It's fine.
I don't think the Eldari care either way, as long as their species survives one way or
another, right?
If the species wouldn't... I mean, I suppose your point is that if there's...
I mean, so the Ness is still going to be kicking about from them, right?

(01:04:13):
Yes, but if they step back and allow the Ness to be eaten by the other three gods or like
the civil war of what it is to be, you know, like, you know, and they've learned their
lesson, right?
In terms of their pure...
Almost like they're now Puritans in Africa, right?
Where it's like, and you don't have humanity to like power slash like very weak, you can

(01:04:36):
kind of then take a stab at her, do you know what I mean?
I don't know.
It's really complicated.
It's not as...
After thinking about this and rumour-nesting on this, it's nowhere near as simple as it
appears, because at the end of the day, like, you know, humanity dying could actually be
the worst case scenario for chaos, ironically.
100%.
I think it's also, you know, if they're going to kill the emperor, they need to kill him

(01:05:00):
in a certain way to stop him coming back.
I don't think that's possible.
Well, could they not destroy his soul a la Horus?
I don't think so, no.
I don't think they have the power to do that.
I think this is the great irony with like the chaos gods and the emperor where they
yin and yang to each other.
Well, I don't think either one of them can almost weirdly coexist without the other in
a weird kind of way, right?

(01:05:21):
And I think the emperor, and I think this is what the Grey Knights are at as well, where
if the emperor were to die, we don't really know what was going to happen.
We have no idea what's going to happen.
It could just be that he dies and that's it.
And the Ashra...
I can't remember what it's called.
Ashramachan.
It is removed from the battlefield and then humanity is doomed.

(01:05:42):
But whether in the process of doing that, the emperor is then therefore no longer tethered
to a physical plane and then storms the warp and kills all the chaos gods anyway, or whether
he then just gets reborn because he is technically the most powerful perpetual ever, right?
And by locking him on the Golden Throne, you kind of stop his perpetuation from happening.

(01:06:03):
Sure.
Do you know what I mean?
Like...
There is that argument.
We've heard that before.
Like we've many times discussed whether it would actually be beneficial in some ways
to actually sort of end the emperor's current existence.
State.
Yes, state.
Exactly.
Vegetable state.
Exactly.
Obviously, a lot of bad shit would happen.
We discussed this in a previous episode.
Yes.
But yeah, if chaos won, I do think it'd be very interesting.

(01:06:25):
I think chaos should be given a chance to win, at the very least.
I agree.
I would like to see a world where chaos steps it up and really makes a real go of things.
And we actually have to see other races kind of step in and help to defeat them.
Well, actually, some of the most interesting plot stuff of recent years have been a result

(01:06:51):
of chaos taking big wins, right?
Kadia falling was the coolest.
I actually would go on record as saying Kadia falling is one of the coolest plot things to happen.
If not anything, just to create Imperium Nihilus and the great Rift, right?
Yeah, Rift.
Just because the idea of half the universe falling into darkness and then all of a sudden

(01:07:15):
being eaten by chaos is gnarly.
It's terrifying.
Yeah.
Unbelievably cool.
So yeah, I love it when the Imperial backs against the wall and it looks dark, right?
It's the grim dark setting, right?
It's what we're all about here.
It's what we want.
Blanchitsu.
Can't wait for that colour.
Blanchit my pants.

(01:07:36):
Yeah, it's going to be awesome.
And yeah, I love just the idea of the emperor dying, not dying, and then the chaos gods
being like, what now?
And then just in that vacuum of thought, it's like...
Fighting each other probably.
That is the great game Doth continue, right?
I love that.
I love that.
I love that about chaos that at the end of the day, chaos's biggest enemy is itself.

(01:08:00):
It is really itself.
Yeah, because they're so different to each other, all the chaos gods and the factions.
And obviously just chaos space marines as a faction, you know?
Great.
Awesome.
Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. Let us know what you think should,
should and could chaos ever win.

(01:08:21):
What cool plot stuff do you think would be a result of that?
And yeah, kill your darlings always.
I approve of that.
I absolutely approve of that.
I know that it's sometimes not a license to make money, but it should be a creative
endeavour at the end of the day.
And that's always a great thing to do.
Do it.
Kill them.
Do it.
Except for the lion.

(01:08:41):
Let us know in the comments below. And also let us know what you thought of that secret level
and what your favourite demon models are, if you've got any that we haven't mentioned,
because there are a lot of good ones out there.
Kabanda.
We need to say that more on challenges.
No, I don't think so.
Stop trying to make Kabanda happen.
It's already happened.
There's a lot of people at Edstrid Discord being like, Kabanda.

(01:09:04):
Yeah.
They're like, oh yeah.
It's good.
That's what you know, you're a deep listener of the past.
Yeah, you're a fan.
But thank you very much. Wish me luck at the weekend.
Good luck.
It'll be lovely retrospectively.
This will be your new animation.
Just make sure you screen.
It'll be out by the time.
Don't front line your sheets.
Screen?
Yeah.
Screening is where you put some models in between the raging orcs and your important units.

(01:09:26):
What, deploy everything on the front line again?
No, no, no. Don't do that.
Oh.
Make sure you're at least four inches behind the screen so you can't consolidate into your models.
Oh, so put my hellbastards on the front instead of what you're saying.
Yeah. Do that, yeah.
Okay.
Go.
You can lead a horse to water.
I can't wait to play Chaos. It's going to be so much easier.

(01:09:47):
It is going to be fun.
It's just like.
Run!
30 possessed. Fucking run.
Look, post it. I won't ever have to think about tactics over again.
I'll just be like, right, I'm going to smash your face.
Sure.
There you go.
It works.
40 attacks, death wounds, damage two.
Well, I'm about to play my mate Paul in the battle barn.
I'm about to play his elder and he's obviously running the new codex.

(01:10:08):
So I'm about to get my shit pushed in.
Caved.
Yeah. I feel like it's going to be like, I'm going to be walking like John Wayne after this game.
We're going to see what happens.
I'll let you guys know how it goes.
And expect some more pictures of the battle barn scene because we're almost there now again.
Okay. And then you'll have no desisting of like, when's it ready?

(01:10:28):
When's it ready?
When's it ready?
When's it fucking ready?
It will be ready soon,.tm. I told you this.
All right.
In the coming days, weeks.
In the days, weeks, months, years.
It'll be ready when it's fucking ready.
I'm doing this properly.
Leave me alone.
Yeah.
Links for everything down below.
If you want to find us on Instagram, they're in there now.
And the battle barn is there as well.

(01:10:49):
So, and our Patreon.
So thank you again to our Patreons.
You're the best.
We really do appreciate you.
We'll see you folks at the weekend.
Yeah.
Although not Ed because he's a fucking slacker.
I know.
I'm very sad about it.
Honestly.
I really am.
No one knows what it's like to be Ed.
There's a couple of try-hards going as well.
So yeah, I have to go and annoy them for me.
There you go, C.

(01:11:10):
Well, I'll annoy them ahead of time before I fight alongside them.
They're going to be on our team.
So yeah, just get to know them.
There you go.
I just do so shit poor at this event.
They'll be like, no, he's not on the team anymore.
I'll be like, sorry, Rust.
Bye.
Bye.
Laters.
0 and 5?
What?
I hope not.
Fucking hell, no.
Fucking hell.
Right.

(01:11:30):
See you guys around.
See you guys soon.
Ciao.