Episode 36: Can Anyone Keep Up With Games Workshop?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If you want to keep up with everything, you couldn't keep up with the painting.

(00:04):
It's nice.
You'd have to have a whole house full of people doing it.
Well, you literally, what happens when you buy books on mass, right?
You literally die on your reading shelf where you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
dead, do you know what I mean?
And this is just like, that's how you'd be when you're a pile of shame.
It'd be like life, life, life, life, life, death.
And it's just like, we're going to have like attics and garages full of grey

(00:24):
plastic, that's going to be like our kids.
Yeah.
And they're going to be like, what the fuck is all this shit?
I'm loving the idea of 40K on the antics roadshow one day.
Do you know what I mean?
Oh my God, is that a metal scout?
Is that a sealed box of Leviathan?
I don't remember when this is the tits back in...
Love to do that.
Is that a ballista's dreadnought?

(00:45):
Oh, there's your dad, a stockless bit.
Welcome to the In the Tank podcast.
Get ready for an hour of hot 40K goodness coming in your ears.
You're in the tank now, baby.
We're live.
We are indeed live.
Welcome everybody to In the Tank.

(01:07):
How are you doing my fabulous, gorgeous co-host Ed?
I am most excellent.
How are you my equally fabulous and admirably gorgeous?
Oh, admirably gorgeous.
I'll take that.
I'll take that.
I'm doing pretty good actually.
Apart from the fact my asshole stings from the absolute fucking that I took from the
the Oxford onslaught, the recent Oxford onslaught.

(01:28):
I was at four or five.
You thought my barn was echoey.
You should hear Russ's room with his cave of an asshole.
Oh, dude, it's gaping.
It's gaping.
But we'll discuss that.
God, this is going to be like YouTube.
If someone's finding this podcast for the first time and they're listening to this,
they're just going to be like, what the fuck is this?
Sorry, guys.
It's not all like this.

(01:49):
It's not all gaping assholes.
There is some 40K content here.
Before we go on to that, because like you, I need to give a proper rundown of everything
and talk about my bastard opponents that I love very much.
What are you working on?
So what have you been working on?
What have you been working on?
You've been working on something very different, lad.
I have, yeah.

(02:09):
I've become quite schizophrenic of late with my painting.
I think it's because-
You fucking lost it, bro.
I was like, I painted so many geniuses of course.
I snapped and I was like, I fucking hate this.
It's classic Catholicism.
Little tiny models.
It's Catholic suppression that now you're like going off the handle.
Exactly.
I've become like a mega slut now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(02:29):
I've gone the other way.
So yeah, I basically, I started painting some Death Guard and I was like this,
I like the word death, but I'm not sure about the word guard.
So I was like, what else have we got here?
And then I went, Death Watch, that'll do.
They've got a slightly different vibe.
But no, all jokes aside, I did start a Death Watch project a couple of years ago.
Wow.
In ninth edition.

(02:50):
And I was really enjoying converting all the minis and doing all this sort of stuff.
And then I caught wind of the changes that were coming Death Watch's way,
AKA that they were getting shit canned.
And I was like, well, there's not really much point playing them then,
is it all carrying on going down this road?
So I sort of put it on pause for a while.
And then Ames Workshop were like, oh, okay, we've buckled under the pressure of the fans

(03:13):
wanting Death Watch back.
And then they gave us the Gropman's Detachment where you can actually
run all the cool kill teams again and stuff.
Although they've changed them slightly, which meant that I've got a load more hobby work to do,
but I'm really enjoying it.
So I have been building and painting a test squad of Death Watch since the last week,
but I've also been doing stuff here at the barn.

(03:34):
So it's kind of juggling a bit of both.
We're hoping, by the way, to be going live.
I'm going on holiday in a couple of weeks for a week.
And then once I get back from that, we're hoping to go live in the battle barn for the first time.
Oh my God.
Who's going to be my first guest?
It's basically three weeks away, which is, yeah, I don't know who's going to be my first guest.
I might snap a pool cue and just throw everyone into a room and see who's the first.

(03:56):
That's a very Joker way of doing it, right?
Yeah, yeah.
We're going to be having tryouts.
But that's cool.
I mean, Death Watch, interesting.
Because you're spamming off the Death Guard because I'm going to be Captain Chaos soon, right?
Yeah, exactly.
I thought if you're doing them anyway, it doesn't make much sense of me to do them as well.
No, that's fine.
Death Watch are cool.
Death Watch are cool because you get a lot of interesting modelling opportunities from them

(04:22):
and your characters you get to choose from.
Please tell me you're going to have a Dark Angels character in there at the very least.
There'll be some stuff, I'm sure.
No, but like a character, like a HQ, a Dark Angel HQ.
I mean, I've got, so my Judiciary is Black Templars.
He is awesome.
Of course, that makes sense.
And that is like a proper cool conversion I've done.
I'll put a picture of him when he's painting, but he's super cool, so that's cool.

(04:43):
I don't actually have, I think the issue is that my list doesn't really have any room for Dark Angels characters at the minute,
but I will do one for sure at some point.
Get out.
If I end up with like a second Judiciary or Captain or something else.
Also, you need a Crimson Fist character as well.
100%.
I mean, I'm just going to have loads of Marines of all kinds.

(05:04):
And the best thing was, when I started doing this project, I bought a load of transfers sheets,
not wet stickers, transfers.
That's so fucking annoying.
Love that.
I don't know what was wrong with me last week.
Your brain, your brain.
I was having a meltdown.
It's like you like proper stroked it.
Yeah, it was bad.
You were like out.

(05:24):
Yeah, so I got some really cool transfers for some interesting chapters.
Carcaradons, which is very cool.
Flesh Terrors, you know, some little bits and pieces.
I'll say it's just a cool transfer.
Oh yeah, you need a Carcaradon Terminator in there or something.
Oh yeah.
For sure.
That definitely.
We're going to have some really cool shit going on.
I'm looking forward to that.

(05:45):
Exciting.
That's cool.
Yeah, that's cool.
That's what I've been up to.
What about you?
My world has been flipped upside down by Jon Blanch.
And I know that and the Warpaints Fanatic Line ads.
Sort it out.
Sort it out.
I haven't tried them yet.
So I received the Blanch paint set and I have never been more excited to like get into it.

(06:08):
Like properly, properly get into it.
Like, and I love the concept from it.
And honestly, not sponsored by the Army Painting.
I wish I was.
I cannot believe the sea change of how good that series of paints is.
I cannot believe it.
I like, I genuinely can't.
To the point where I kind of want to replace and I'm looking at them now.

(06:29):
All of my GW paints with Fanatic and P3 stuff.
Yeah.
And cleanse it because the quality is amazing.
To the point where one of my favorite paints is the Blanch Berry Dark Purple is so nice.
The metallics are great.
The wash that's called the Grim Dark Shadow is like an old, gnarlier version of Nuln Oil.

(06:56):
And I love that you can just integrate those paints into just your general paint set
and go, oh, this is a cool purple.
Oh, this is a cool metallic.
Or you can just restrict your palette to those 20 paints and go full Blanch Shih Tzu
and like make your models look like a Blanchy thing.
So fair play to the Army Painter.

(07:17):
They need to do more of these.
Do a Suggs one.
Maybe do a Pichy one because Pichy's, maybe they are already talking about it.
That might be in the works.
Right?
Pichy is working with them, right?
Right.
Aesthetically, I think with Blanchy, it's very strong right out the bat.
And the thing that I really loved about it,
looking at my Emperor Blanch piece of art there, the metallics look like that.

(07:37):
So like the metallic heavy metal and Emperor's gold, once you've washed them, look like that.
And I was like, whoa.
So now all of my inner circle companions are looking so moody.
And I'm painting them at the moment and having so much fun.
I thought I would get like Dark Angels fatigued,
but actually painting these inner circle companions, I'm like, this is so much fun.

(08:02):
And I've done three of the cloaks like forest green with purple inside, like Blanch Purple inside.
And then the other three were purple and then green on the inside.
It looks so nice.
The inside of your room is a different colour.
Well, no, because, no, no, no, don't you judge me.
But it's not true because the...
I'm not judged.
I'm impressed.
I'm not judged.

(08:22):
No, it's that the inner circle companions, they have like a cut down the middle where
the bottom of them, there's a different colour like part of their cloak.
So I invert it.
Yeah, that's cool.
And it just looks cool.
And I'm doing the new technique, and I'll talk about this later on another thing,
of doing the squad with a character.
What a great idea.

(08:43):
What a great fucking idea.
Oh, it's just great, isn't it?
So it's tying the whole cloning unit together with an old judiciere.
And yeah, like, absolutely, like, honestly, I can't say this enough, again, not sponsored
by the Army Painter.
Just go out and give them a try.
The Fanatic Paint.
So I am so impressed.
The coverage is awesome.

(09:03):
Colours are awesome.
Wicked, wicked paint set.
Like, I need to buy you some for Christmas or something because...
Sounds border, yeah.
I'd be up for trying.
Mental.
Absolutely mental.
So impressed, so impressed.
Yeah, we did, yeah.
They sold out fucking instantly.

(09:25):
Dude, dude, I wish, like, not to be a hawk, but I wish I bought some just to, like, not
resell because that's a bit, like, horrible, but, like, just to sit on like a dragon.
Like, yeah, but that's gonna be me with Beastman at some point in the future.
So I'm gonna pre-order some pieces.
Shut the fuck up.
Shut the fuck up.
I want to be a Beastman.
I know you, you already looked the part.

(09:47):
Like, like, like, like, goat boy, goat boy.
Um, gotta blow out your microphone.
It's just awful mental images.
No, thank you.
That's gonna be burnt into your head.
That is burnt into my head.
Um, but yes.
Wow.
What a popular faction.

(10:07):
Sold out everywhere.
Yeah.
Sold out everywhere.
Everyone went about throbbing Emperor's Children action.
Although not the strongest Codex in the world.
I would go on record as saying, no, I don't think they're that hot.
I don't think they're that hot.
Their shooting sucks.
Decent attachments.
Yeah.
Okay.
Combat's amazing.
If you're in that 18 inch death-like thing, fair, but you were, you were

(10:33):
dancing with the devil.
You've got no shooting, even CSM.
The Noisemarines are fine.
What's wrong with them?
Yeah, I guess infantry and stuff, but again, it's a shorter range.
It's like 24 inches or something.
Everything can hit within four inches.
Yeah.
But with CSM, you've got like fucking vindicators and stuff in that Codex.
Yeah, sure.
Right.
You ever heard of reserves?

(10:55):
Yeah.
Okay.
Granted.
But like, I dunno, man, I'm just a little bit worried.
They are quite short.
Because they're so flimsy as well.
Even the Death Guard have sick shooting with the old plague burst crawlers.
They're going to play quite an interesting early game, I think, because
they've got quite a lot of speed with all their advancing charge, shoot charge,
all this sort of stuff.
And also they've got Lucius, who is an absolute motherfucking beast.

(11:18):
That boy sat behind a ruin on a point.
That is going to be hard work to deal with with the fights first.
Look, I totally get that.
I just think they are not going to have the longevity to survive a five turn game.
Yeah.
I mean, they'll probably peter out, but again, look at things like,
you know, nids when they've got lictors out early and that sort of stuff.

(11:40):
That can really make an early game tricky for your opponent to get much of a score.
I have to admit with stuff that gets Infiltrate and Scout moves kind of makes my ass clench a little bit.
Yeah, because you've got OC2 each as well.
Yeah, yeah, I get that too.
Totally get that.
But they are the gold standard of how to kill something in 10th edition, which is, as I said before,

(12:02):
they're also like anything that kills Marines.
Yep.
We jack off over and like, oh yeah, damage to minus two AP, right?
And there seems to be quite a lot of very efficient damage to minus two AP shooting, right?
Don't care if you have a unit of 10 of those fuckers.
They're going to get eaten by shooting.
I'm sorry.

(12:23):
They just are.
Sorry, you carry on.
I didn't mean to.
Now I was going to say you've also don't forget you're overlooking the most powerful unit in the
Codex shooting wise, which is obviously the Helldrake.
It's better.
I've heard it's better.
Better than a kick in the bollocks.
Dude, if they had like a Vindicator or something, just something to give them something shooty wise,

(12:45):
but their shooting sucks.
I think they're okay.
We'll see.
We'll see.
Like, you know, some armies don't really, some armies get away without having any shooting
whatsoever.
Yeah, but even.
It's still a game of 40k.
Yeah, but like, as I've discovered recently, not having a shooting phase is sometimes a
problem.
No, it's lovely to be able to have one.
I think if you can keep, I mean, I've said this recently, like if you can have something

(13:05):
to keep your opponents honest, you know, like a Vindicator or a Doomsday Ark or something.
Exactly.
Exactly.
If they poke out, they know they're going to, you know, track up the ass.
Yeah, exactly.
Then yeah, exactly.
It just keeps your opponent honest.
You can't just waltz all over the board at that point.
You kind of have to move in, you know, a bit more tactical ways.
So yeah, cool, cool miniatures line.

(13:28):
Don't like the eggheads.
Don't like the eggheads.
Love the helmet.
Yeah, the cone heads.
The cone heads are weird.
Go ahead and tell me.
But it's good to see that they sold out and good to see community support around them
and stuff.
Speaking of community support around us, please like, comment and subscribe.

(13:49):
Here we go.
I'm now making this a thing because you embarrass me.
You suck a big yellow poster on the top of your monitor that says like, comment and subscribe.
I've made notes like when to do it because otherwise I'll forget.
But please subscribe, like us.
Thank you to our Patreons.
Thank you to everyone on our Discord.
Please go and follow us on Instagram.

(14:11):
I have an account, Ed has an account.
We have a channel account.
Go check it out, please.
Send us some love.
Send us some comments.
Absolutely.
Everything is below in the description if you do want to do any of those things.
Go on the Discord and if not, thanks for watching anyway.
And enjoy people taking the piss out of me on the Discord.
It's great.
It's great fun.
Yeah, there's a lot of bands.
A lot of space wolfy bands.

(14:31):
A lot of space wolf bands.
Space wolf like Jersey.
I fucking really want you to have that.
I knew that was coming.
I fucking knew that was happening.
Can you change the name on the back of it or not?
No, no, no, no.
That's so sad.
If they did a Russ one, I would have just wrecked my younger.
Yeah, Russ.
Need a Russ.
I would have instantly.
I love the Dark Angels one.
I actually want to get the Dark Angels one.
I run a bit even. There we go.

(14:52):
Yeah, of course.
The Dark Angels whole.
Yeah. So Russ's got his absolute shit pushed in in the foulest possible way.
Okay.
By one of our fans at the channel as well.
All right.
Okay. Let's just take this back a bit, right?
So I must confess.
I must confess, right?
Not to make it an excuse.
I was a little bit stressed out going to this event

(15:14):
because I had a bit of shit at home, right?
I don't want to get into details, but life was complicated.
And I did manage to get everything painted and sorted beforehand, but I was knackered.
I was really tired going in, right?
And the one thing that I was slightly anxious about was my detachment going in.
Look at you smiling.
You're kind of sad.

(15:35):
Where I was a little bit anxious about my detachment,
where I knew it had a couple of really strong interactions.
But I didn't really have that many reps with it.
And I wasn't sure how it was going to fare against certain matchups, right?
So I'll take you on a blow by blow.
What I ran was a librarian conclave list.

(15:55):
That's actually quite a lot of shooting.
Big Terminator block, some Hellbusters, some Stern guards, yada, yada, yada, right?
Scouts, infiltrators, whatever.
So my first round was John's Bully Boys.
Now, interestingly, this is a really close game.
So by the end of the game, I was in the game.
So by the end of the game, I actually had more stuff on the table than John did.

(16:19):
But because he got so early on the objectives, he just ran away with secondaries.
Like completely ran away with secondaries.
And I think Pariah Nexus is fucking me a little bit because
I find the secondaries harder to do for me sometimes.
And of course, the vast majority of primaries don't score you as much as you expect.
It tends to be in increments of four and like you kind of get like 12 points sometimes or eight

(16:44):
points. And I'm like, I'm used to ninth edition stuff where I'm like getting 15 points around
or whatever.
All the early stages of 10th edition where primaries would fist it actually, where actually,
if you could still keep the primary game, you could do all right.
But the amount of Bully Boys I had to deal with, he could just score loads of secondaries here,

(17:08):
there and everywhere. And he was right up in my shit early.
Not actually a problem this time.
My shooting was quite considerable.
And like I said, by the end of the game, I had arguably more stuff on the table than he did.
But to be fair to my opponent, he was a great opponent.
I love him anyway. He's a really cute dog.
He's a lovely guy. I love John.
So much love to you, mate, like your fabulous human being.

(17:33):
He just ran away with secondaries.
Completely ran away with secondaries.
So ouch.
I think that there's something you should think about, which is when it comes to having stuff
alive at the end of the game, often if you've got quite a lot alive at the end of the game,
but you've lost, that's an indicator that you haven't used them to their fullest potential.

(17:54):
I agree.
So what you should have been doing is just throwing them away onto objectives just to nick them off
of John or deny him primary or whatever.
In my defense.
If they die, they die.
In my defense, that was a lot of bully boys.
Oh yeah.
And I had to kill shit.
I had to kill shit or I was going to lose.
I was just going to lose. He was going to eat me.
Right. So when I'm going, get off me.

(18:16):
I can't then do actions.
I can't do actions if I'm trying to fight to survive.
And like weirdly, Space Marine lists are leaner than you expect them to be.
Where you just don't have that extra chaff units to do it, if that makes sense.
Anyway.
Death Watch lists have literally got fucked all.
Well, yeah, exactly. Exactly.
But hey, it was cool.
I enjoyed my game.

(18:37):
He was great.
Next round was Eldar.
Now again, really close game could have swung either way.
And my opponent again was lovely.
There was a few really crucial roles I missed.
I actually think I played quite well this game.
Like we were neck and neck until about turn three.

(18:58):
And then he just had an just an overwhelmingly strong kickback.
And I just couldn't recover from it from that moment forward.
I did also make a couple of really annoying bad roles early, which was not fun.
Where I missed a charge when I shouldn't have.
And there was a couple and then re-rolled into a charge that failed.
And there was a couple of like kind of moments.

(19:20):
Right. But I didn't really feel like I lost by a huge amount.
Like I think in the end, it was something like 40 to 70.
Which by the swing point, that actually wasn't too bad.
Because he just ran away with points at the end.
Nothing for me to learn too much about that with Eldar.
But I felt a lot better because Eldar now feel like a much more fairer faction to play against.

(19:41):
Where you don't have all of that bullshittery involved with fate dice anymore.
Right. It's very tricksy.
But you do feel fairer that you can corner them and kill them now.
Rather than them like sit on a fate dice and be like, lol, I just passed my five up involve.
That's feel bad.
That's never fun.
Then I played against Space Wolf.
So I played against fucking Wolf Jail.

(20:02):
I bet you had an uncomfortable erection the whole game.
Jill was really funny.
Jill was really lovely about this event.
In all seriousness, right.
I had about 12 people give me Space Wolf jokes at the entire weekend.
Which I was like, wow.
Like I was like, the scope.

(20:22):
Even Michael got involved.
And I was like, fuck.
And it was surreal that they know, right.
And I was just like, wow, that's really funny.
Anyway, Wolf Jail.
Fuck Wolf Jail for a start.
What a boring fucking list to play against.
God damn.
Fuck off.
My opponent was lovely and a nice person.

(20:44):
But fuck that list.
No, fuck that list.
I wish I took the lion.
I wish I took the lion now.
Yeah.
No, fuck off and die.
Strong.
I killed Logar, dumb fuck chariot bitch.
Like I killed that character.
Fuck you and die.

(21:06):
It was like, it was fine.
Again, I just got worn down.
I just got like mugged off by a load of fucking wolves.
Riding wolves.
Can you imagine if he's seething?
Like being stuck in Wolf Jail.
And everyone tapping you on the shoulder every 10 minutes.
You should be playing wolves.
You're on the wrong side of the table.
I had that like 8 times.
I would have fucking snapped you.

(21:28):
Dude, I was so done.
And my opponent had no idea.
They were blissfully unaware.
They were like, do you like wolves?
I'm like, fuck off.
Don't use that.
Wolves, wolves, riding wolves with werewolf wolves.
And fucking fuck off.
And I was like, fuck you.
Fuck off.

(21:50):
I bet you loved that.
Feel bad enemy list.
Feel bad.
Just fuck off.
Game 3 as well.
Which I am now
0 and 3.
I'm feeling a little bit
raw about it.
And I'm like, god damn.
Did you debate going back for day 2?

(22:12):
Oh no.
I'm glad you stuck it out.
Why would you drop?
Why would you ever go to a tournament
do the first day
lose a game or something
and then just leave?
If you do that, you're a salty bitch
and you need a good seeing to, quite frankly.
Do you know why I'm saying this?
It's just two of my mates that went and did that.

(22:34):
And they've done it twice now.
They both went to an event
and they've just ditched it.
If I'm relatively honest,
I find that a little bit disrespectful
because it's like
the TO has organised that event.
Michael's an incredible TO.
Love you, Michael.
And you're there to play 40k.
What could be better?

(22:56):
What could be better?
I know you're locked into a list.
I try and at least get one win.
You'll never see your mates.
Roll some bones. Have a good time.
If you see me at LGT like a couple of years back
when I got absolutely fit.
You looked like you wanted to die.
No, honestly, that was awful.
I think I only won
one game or something.

(23:18):
It was the first game.
It was just terrible.
Everyone kept coming over and patted me on the shoulder.
That's alright, mate.
You'll be okay.
That's the worst.
I'm just getting tough matchups and my list isn't designed for it.
I don't want your pity.
I'm not a shit player, I promise.
This is how I felt.
This is how I felt.

(23:40):
It is fucking awful, isn't it?
I've been playing a bit...
So day two, going into day two,
feeling like I've got nothing to lose at this point.
I'm like, fuck it.
Absolutely destroyed a poor
Blood Angels player.
You had the wrath of God, mate.
Oh, dude. I was like, fuck off.
I literally
marched my Assault Terminators and Blade Guard

(24:02):
up. They charged into
my Assault Terminators. I then
heroically intervened with my
Blade Guard and just
decked them.
He was looking at you across the table and you were like...
And he's like, what you did?
Licking a stamp and fucking sending it.
I was like, I'm done.
I'm done with pleasantries now.
I'm completely done with pleasantries.

(24:24):
Random intervention here. Sorry to
interrupt you, but basically I was
looking in TriHard earlier because one of the
guys in there did really well at the Manchester
GT, Colin Power. He
plays for Team Ireland. Really good...
Colin Power. Great name.
Great name. He became sick there.
He's done really well. So anyway,
he was playing new Eldari
this weekend. He was saying that his takeaways

(24:46):
as an Eldari player,
in terms of weaknesses
as an Eldari player, is when
people basically just overload you.
They force on you and then lose a couple of key units.
You can't do all your tricks at the same time.
Exactly. You can't do all of them.
So those of you out there wondering how to play
against new Eldari, just fucking
shove your whole foot down.
This is exactly what happened with the

(25:08):
poor Blood Angels player, where they were like...
They didn't know what
Terminators were like for Dark
Angels and I was like...
Honestly, I was
just hitting him with 40
Thunder Hammer attacks and just
so rude. Poor MephistoN, right?
Where, you know,
even then when MephistoN had more like
Meshaton,

(25:30):
where, bless him, he put all of his
attacks into my Terminators,
they just tanked it. They just took like
two casualties and then the
Bladeguard hit back with the
Assault Terminators and just
decimated his front lines.
And then my Gladiator was being a little
pissant and just killing all of his
tanks and stuff.
Yeah, I talk about what good units were at the end.

(25:52):
And then the final game was a
Vo-tan player, who
watches the channel. Love you buddy, you're cool too.
And again,
really crunchy.
I think we can safely
say that again, by the end of turn
two, we had no idea who was going to win.
It was so close.
It was so close. And then again, it just
swung this favour and I

(26:14):
was... But it was close. It felt close.
And fuck Vo-tan
shooting, man, because their shooting's
dirty. Everyone always says that Vo-tan
player really on his game. Very dirty.
It's fair. It was
a fair game. It was a completely fair
game. Yeah, they generally play quite
like close games, I think,
Vo-tans. Like not usually a crushing
unless... Yeah, it was

(26:36):
like a... It was a Classico
game of 40k. Does that make sense?
What you want. Yeah.
So I lost four losses
to one win.
Don't beat yourself up about it.
I've been there. Crawling
in my skin.
And I'm just like, yeah,
playing Raven Guard now.
Nevermore. Nevermore.

(26:58):
But things
to take away. Not
the detachment for me. No,
that's fair. Just not.
One gladiator did
great. If I had two gladiators
because I was kind of like thinking
about future lists. Yep.
Terrain's a bastard, mate, in
this edition, right? And queuing
up that perfect thing. When

(27:20):
I had one tank to do that,
I could get them in position where I could
then go sniper tank, sniper tank,
sniper tank. And through the course
of my games, actually, the gladiator
lancer did a lot of work, actually.
But if
I had multiple... My dreadnought, for example,
did fuck all. So I was like the
waste of 130 points, right?
And

(27:42):
just like my
mid-range shooting was great, I did
do the stern guard combo a couple of times.
I did... My favorite thing that I did
with the stern guard was destroying one of those
big land fortress tanks
from Botan. Do you know what happened?
He killed half my unit of stern guard.
I retaliated and just
wiped that fucking thing off the planet.
I did like 20 mortal wounds to that

(28:04):
thing and I was like, get fucked.
With half the unit. Wow.
He was mad. Absolutely mad. I think the
weirdest thing I've ever done to a land fort was
I walked up to it
with the nightbringer and just
like rolled the perfect damage.
No, from his laser eye attack, his
death. Oh, wow. I just blew
it to shreds and the guy was like, a boi.
And then the dudes got out of it. But because

(28:26):
he put all his army behind it, he had
to get out in front. And the nightbringer was like,
hello, boys.
They just ate everything.
What I would love to do
is drag me in it at some point.
Drag me in a chunky
thing. So yeah, so things to take away from
this. I'm now changing my detachment
for your team event. I am
swallowing my pride edge because

(28:48):
I want to do the best for my boi
and his team. I'm playing Gladius.
Yeah. The team are a bit worried about you
after this weekend report. I'm not going to lie.
Oh, don't be. I'll
be fine. I'll be fine.
What happened in our last game, Ed?
You pushed my shit in. I did.
You played 40k and I diddled around the edges
like a typical home-grid net. And that's what I'm going to do this time.
So I'm now running Deathwing Nights.

(29:10):
That's you. I'm
running Deathwing Nights.
I'm running Inner Circle Companions.
I'm running the lion.
I'm coming in Boars Deep.
Be yourself.
For my last ever run
off with the Dark Angels before I
suck on that Chaos Kool-Aid,
I'm going to go full on
Tilt-E Dark Angels. I think you should.

(29:32):
You've got to do it. Like I said, you've got
to play to your strengths. And I think every time
I've seen you do well, you're playing a very
rust list, which is where you're just
shoving Terminators across the board at them and
just drowning them in
power armored stuff.
Basically.
Okay, kind of Deathguard-y as well.
Exactly. That's what you need to do. Looking forward to
that.

(29:54):
So there you go. That's my roundup.
My ass has got various
creams added to it so that I feel
less fucked. But we'll see
how it goes. So next up
is the old team event. Let's bring it on.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be great.
It's in April time, isn't it? End of April.
So that's going to be
brilliant. I had a fun one last week
because I went on Liam Dempsey's

(30:16):
stream. I saw! I don't know
if you saw.
So we had a really
I played Joe and he
was playing the
what are they called? Oh my
Lord. I'm having another stroke. Hang on a minute.
The Blood
Angels guys that are all
like Black Rage-y. What are they
called? Death Company. Death Company. There we go. Sorry.

(30:38):
I don't know what's wrong with me.
It's a dad. Dad brain.
So yeah, he was playing Death Company, which is really cool.
And he had like triple
Brutalis Dreadnoughts, which is hilarious.
And I got to play the... That seems to be a thing at the moment.
Yeah, they were strong. And I got to
play the Gene Sealer Colts, which is the
first time they've ever been run on their channel,
which is really cool.
So that was nice. And I got to play the old Biosanctic

(31:00):
Breed Surge. And we had
just an absolutely hell of a game of 40k.
I'll put a link to it in this description
just in case anyone is interested in watching it.
There was also a hilarious moment
in the game where
Joe decided to interrupt
for 2CP because I had a
Sanctus in combat with his
Mephisto. I think it was... I saw this.
What's the... I think it was Mephisto.

(31:22):
No, it was Asura. Oh, it was Asura.
You just passed your Involves, right?
Mate, he did two Dev Wounds
to me and put me down to a wound. And then I
passed four, five up in
a row. And it was just an absolute
scam. And we were just both
just exploded with laughter. It was so
funny. And then I killed him.
That's what makes 40k worth playing.
I love shit like that one. It just... It's dumb.

(31:44):
Me too. So yeah, that was a good week.
It was fun. And yeah,
I'm sure I'll go back again soon.
Yeah, man. Do
your own shit as well. Exactly. Yeah, we
will be soon.
So we best get actually into
our topics today. Nah, fuck.
Yes. So.
So. So.

(32:06):
So.
40k games, video games.
Video games.
What are your
favorite 40k video games? I want to
throw this question back to you. Any deserves to be mine?
I want to say if you could only
ever play one 40k
video game again for the rest
of your life, obviously one that exists currently,
what would you choose?

(32:28):
The remake
of
mmmm
I'm sorry, my brain just had a moment
there.
Space Hulk. Okay.
Interesting. There's a really cool, basically
Space Hulk, but digitalized.
Yeah. I'll pay that because Terminator
is stopping around killing Genie,
the filthy Xenos bastards. Great game.

(32:50):
Great game.
Great game. Do you know where it'd have to be for me?
The original Door of War.
Yeah, I was going to say. I was going to say it had
to be. I fucking love that game.
It was great with all the expansions. It was good.
It was a great game. It was a great game.
That's peak 40k game.
I just love all the voice lines. The campaign
was really good fun. I think it was
a very millennial generation game

(33:12):
for us, right, where a lot of
people were the same our age,
which makes us sound old and we kind of are, I guess.
But like,
you know if you were affected
by that, and you played that
because it was great. It was such a game.
It was really immersive. I still would occasionally
fire it up and play it. Like to this day,
it's just so much fun.
Were the sequels good? Sorry, they were okay.

(33:34):
The issue for me with the sequels is
that they went the company of heroes route,
where it was more squad-y
and less base building.
And you know, it was more sort of like
small squads doing all these sort of
cool maneuvers and stuff, which is fine.
More myth, less C&C.
Yeah, and I just, I love the
Command and Conquer style of
strategy games. Like for me,

(33:56):
I've got great memories from all of them.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, Home Arch 2
is just like...
Yeah, dude.
You know you're there. You're going there.
It's like Vietnam. Yeah, yeah. The flashbacks.
All of the music that
Frank Klepache did for those games is
incredible. The samples
as well with like the Soviet

(34:16):
voice and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, no, I think Dawn of War 1 is
peak. If they remake, because they did
make a Dawn of War, fuck even
knows what it was, like five or something, not
that long ago, maybe like four or five
years ago, probably longer than that now.
But it was just not
really that good. They kind of just
did...
They just made it worse and they went back

(34:38):
a bit more towards that style of Dawn of War
1, but they just didn't nail it. So all they
need to do is make Dawn of War
1 with a modern skin.
That's it.
Dawn of War 4! Yeah.
Whatever. Or 6 or 7. We don't
know yet, but whatever you do, just
make that. That's my favorite one.
That's cool.
Other games... What was that called?

(35:00):
Grain 91.
Demon Hunter or something like that.
I really want to play that. I really, really want to play that.
I've not played it either, but I have heard good things
about it. I played the shit out of obviously
Space Marine 1 when it came out on those PVP
servers. I still need to play Space
Marine 2, bloody hell. Like, life's
just been there. I also played quite an obscure
game, Fire Warrior.
I've never played that. PS2!

(35:22):
Stupid game, but fun.
And as a Tao player, I was like, oh!
And kind of bold for them to play from the
Xenos perspective, which was kind of funky.
That's cool. I love that.
Of course, the fantasy Total War games make my
little dicko hard. They're fantastic.
I've not played any of those
again, mainly because I'm not
really a big Total War man.
I know it's a great game. Too much to do?

(35:44):
Yeah, it's too much for me. For your brain.
My brain just spanners out if I have that much stuff going on.
I'm like, you know.
Dawn of War 1, perfect scale for me.
Although I would love a Total War
40k game. That'd be the best.
I think there's rumours that there is one in the
works. I mean, that's an ambitious
fucking project.
I mean, it'd be brilliant. I mean, it's a licence to print
money if they did it.

(36:06):
What else?
Is it
Gladius? Which is the one with the Necrons
versus the Ad Mech? What was that called?
I can't remember. I don't know. That is incredible.
If you like those sort of turn based
games where you're moving cubes around
and as in moving around
squares and all that sort of stuff.
XCOM. Yes, it's a bit like that.
That game is really cool.

(36:28):
And also the music in that game
is amazing.
And what I loved about it is
they did for the first
trailer for the first game, they did this sort of
thing where it's like, I hate the weakness
of my flesh and all this sort of shit.
And it's really cool. And then
when they did the sequel, which is either
out or just come out recently or
is coming out, they did the same

(36:50):
thing, but from the Necron perspective
with the exact same voiceover.
But obviously, it has a Necron speaking.
And they did like, we hate the weakness
of your flesh. That's like when you do
the CNC thing where you choose
like the goodies or the baddies
and you flip it, right? And then you take the other side.
Yeah, that's a great game.
Wasn't there a really cool
Road Trader game that came out recently as well?

(37:12):
Like an RPG for that? I have heard that.
It's OK. Also,
I desperately want to play the Blood Bowl games.
Yeah. They're like the basically
Blood Bowl, but digitalized.
That sounds fun. Like, let me have
that. Let me have a bit of that. Space Marine 2, obviously.
Space Marine 1 and 2 goes without saying.
They're incredible games.
Skaven Tide was apparently amazing.
Skaven Tide is incredible.

(37:34):
I mean, I was really thinking about 40k games,
but like I played Skaven
Tide and Skaven Tide 2,
I think was the one that I played
absolutely ridiculous amounts of.
And I love that game. It's so much fun.
Just beating the shit out of loads of ratmen
is just incredible.
And they're just so like eeeeh!
They're really satisfying to kill.
Yeah, they're absolutely amazing.

(37:56):
But you feel like a slayer or something.
Well, there's literally a slayer. Dwarf Slayer is one of the
players and he's a blood-thirsty
Surg. It's amazing. Brilliant.
So that's a really good game.
There are a lot of great games
out there, you know. What's your
favourite game audience?
Let us know!
Let us know, please.
Yeah, please do. But interesting

(38:18):
topic, because the digitalisation of 40k
can be upon us closer than we realise.
Yeah, we discussed that on the previous episode.
I really do hate when you make that
like a sexy TTS.
Mmm.
We're coming and
webbanding us back to reality
in this world, not a non-
digitised world at all.
And getting to play a real

(38:40):
game of 40k. How long
does it take you to paint a
mini-slash-squad-slash-whatever, Ed?
Too long.
It depends on what it is.
So...
I know there are any
time-saving tips as well by the way.
Yeah, so we've touched
on a lot of tips on
this sort of subject in the past.

(39:02):
So I'll give you a brief summary
of what I think helps after I've told you
how long it takes me. So...
For the Gene Steed of Cults,
it was taking me about a week
and I was pumping hard. Like, I was
putting time in every night to
paint the squad. Depending on
the squad, if it was like a 20-man Neo-Vice
squad, that's a bit longer, because there's so many
of those bastards. But

(39:24):
like, you know, a squad of aberrants and
a character or something like that
took me about a week.
Now, with something else like Marines,
a bit quicker, probably, you know,
if I really pounded it, I reckon I could
do two squads a week,
but I'd have to be doing it every night.
Jesus Christ.
At that point. So... And these are five
months, not ten. Like, I'm not

(39:46):
a complete mania.
I'm not a quick painter, by the way. It takes me
a long time to paint. I'm quite a
perfectionist, which I really struggle with.
I can't, like, let stuff
go. Even if people can't see it,
people will go, oh, they'll never see the underside of that
cloak. And I'm like, yes, I fucking know.
I do. It'll annoy me
because I'll catch a glimpse of it at some point and go,
fucking wish I painted that.

(40:08):
So, yeah, that's... But
it's a quick time saver round up.
Simplify your scheme. So when you
do your scheme at the start, try and make it
as few colours as possible and try
and make it, like,
as easy to do as possible. So, like,
save yourself steps, unnecessary
steps. Like, if you've got to do a wash,
get your whole model
to the point where you can just wash the whole fucking

(40:30):
thing. Yeah, that's a good...
Rather than washing a bit, than painting a bit, than washing
a bit. You know, so, like, simplify
it, get steps down.
And then, I think, honestly,
basing is another one that's
really important. Like, don't
make yourself fucking rot up your
own ass with basing because
there are such easy ways to do it nowadays.
And I've done it in the past.

(40:52):
You spend forever fucking about.
And your bases will look sexy at the end of it.
But then every time you paint a squad
and you're, like, basically done, you
look at it and you're like, fucking
fucking... Whereas if you can just
slap some shit on it, give it a quick
wash and a very quick dry brush and bang a
tuft on the top, Bob's your uncle,
Fanny's your aunt. Next squad.
So that's my sort of round up. What about you?

(41:14):
I do all the things
that you say that you should do.
My Dark Angel's colour scheme is the most
unnecessarily complicated colour
scheme army ever. But
to be fair, even
at tabletop standard, I had
so many compliments at the weekend.
Thank you, everyone. Everyone was loving
it. And I was like, oh, wow. OK,
so my efforts are not done, you know,

(41:36):
completely out of hand, actually. This is
cool.
So, yes, in terms of the colour
scheme thing, I am split on this
because on one hand, of course, simplify it.
But on the other hand, I'm like, complicated.
Do
what thou wilt should be the whole of law.
And don't regret your choices.
What I will say is it takes me
probably longer than you to paint models,

(41:58):
actually. I'm
a mad perfectionist and a bit
OCD. And
it probably will take me a
couple of
weeks to do a tabletop
standard squad.
Two weeks. And as a dad,
I think that's about right. That's about right.
That's washed
base coat is based. How many nights

(42:20):
are you hobbying in those two weeks?
Do you really think?
Probably about four. Yeah. So you've got
a couple of nights a week. You see, I'm talking
about when I'm talking about painting,
if I'm hammering it, it's four nights in a week.
So I'm probably on a similar
scale to you. We're probably about the same.
But either
way,
yeah, and

(42:42):
yeah, I mean, just be cool.
Just however long it takes you,
just be cool with it. And, you know,
I think, as we said, have a tournament
or whatever to help you push yourself.
That helps.
That's a great motivator. Also,
as I'm kind of feeling it with the John
Blanch paint, choose
paints that work with you, not
against you, right? That

(43:04):
have really good coverage,
that blend really well,
that you just enjoy
working with will help out
loads. I'm
so enjoying painting my in the circle
companions and on face value,
I was quite anxious to paint them
because they're mega
detailed and mega
wet blend because of all their cloaks and stuff.

(43:26):
But actually, I'm on a fucking ball
of time painting those, which is not what I expected
at all. And it's
just because I'm working with some great paint.
Do the squad and the
character thing. Your advice.
That has really helped me. Five
man squad. Yeah, five man squad.
Although I did do ten man of
man guard and though I lost
my shit, although I did

(43:48):
get to the point where I wanted
to die from pure
if you can shut your brain off.
If you can shut
your brain off and just appreciate the process.
It will actually be faster.
Weirdly.
What would have taken me a month only took
me two weeks because
I was doing all of them in one massive smash.
And it was just like, wow, but

(44:10):
I'm getting to number eight
of the base coat and I'm like, oh,
my God, fucking kill me.
And I know there are many
times where I regret my life choices.
What I was doing that.
But it is faster.
It is significantly faster.
So think about it.
And throw the character in there as genius
because again, it helps

(44:32):
solidify the look of a regiment.
It breaks it up a little bit.
Yeah, characters are a bit more fun
to paint because you tend to get a little bit deeper on the details.
Various bits and bobs.
And that was a little bit different to how the rest of the squad is.
And also the squad thing scales up.
So if you're doing like Neo 5, do a 10
and a little character. If you're doing
Space Marine, do a 5 and a character.
I know people say Space Marine

(44:54):
shouldn't take as long, right?
But there's a lot more of a Space Marine
to paint, right?
And like, you've got
to do all the trim. There's lots of details
like the, you know, like
holsters and stuff, which you could ignore.
Yeah. But it's like,
but you know, if you're a twat like me and you're like
nah, I can't do that, you need to do it.
You know, there's actually more detail on the Space Marine.

(45:16):
I'm looking forward to painting
a bit of fantasy at some point because
it's way more simple. It's like
especially Beastman. Yeah,
you just like, fur!
Like fur! Other shade of fur!
Horns!
Go! I have a funny
feeling that if I was
to spend a month painting Beastman,
I could get a lot of Beastman done

(45:38):
in a month. Yeah, yeah. Like a lot.
Back onto the Marines thing, I think the other
thing is like, it depends on the Marines
you're painting. If you're doing Inner Circle Companion
or like Stern Guard
or something like that with lots of cloth and
various bits and pieces, that does
complicate things and make them a much
harder model to paint. Whereas
if you're just doing like an aggressor
or a normal, you know,

(46:00):
tactical Marine or whatever, then that's
very different. You know, you're just banging through the
armour. Sure, you've got like grenades
and little belt pouches and stuff, but that's
really about it.
Also, plan it out in advance.
You don't want to like be stumbling into it. You're
like, oh, this paint and then this paint and then this
paint. Like have all your paints on the palette
that you need and just get stuck
in. Like, get it all done in one big

(46:22):
block and just get it sorted.
And always work inside out.
So like, you know, like
You've all been working inside out for the last week, haven't you?
After what John did to you.
Those bully boys.
You got bully boys.
But like, there's no point
painting the outside of the
cloak if you've got stuff on the inside of
a cloak. Like, OK, an example. Dark

(46:44):
Angel hooded heads, right?
There is no point painting the
hood if then you're going to spill a load
of fucking pink paint around the fucking
hood, which you do in the face. Do the fucking
face first and then paint the
hood around it, right? And then layer it.
Exactly. Common sense. Or
place baseballs.
You would require to lose
all taste and dignity by doing that.

(47:06):
So not advisable.
Not advisable. And you need to invest
in wolf chariots.
Not that type of fur.
I don't mean a furry, which is
ironic coming from goat men, like
actual goat men. But fuck you.
Best by the eight pointed star.
Like, it's great.
It's great.
It's great. I can't wait to play

(47:28):
with Beastman. Oh, yeah.
Minotaur. Something wrong with you.
Oh, so cool.
So cool. I can't.
I just can't let myself get hype for
fantasy or AOS or any other game
system. Even the bloody trench
machine. Not AOS. I have taste.
AOS can fuck up. I've seen this for your shows.
You've got some AOS on. I do.
But I can't get into any of those at the minute

(47:50):
because I've got so much 40k to paint.
It's just impossible. Oh, well that's fair.
I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to
give myself an easy end of the year by doing
something fantasy because I'm going to be
power armored out and I'm going to need some fur.
I'm going to need some goat men to help me
through it. Some fur in my eye.
But yeah, loving that.
Zeetchi. I'm going to still do a Zeetchi
Beastman

(48:12):
army with some albino
goats as my shamans and stuff.
Tell me that would be cool.
Let us know
your time saving tips and how long you guys
take to paint your armor.
I think hobby lag is a real thing
for this, especially if you go to events
or play down your local scene and you don't
want to just play with grey models the whole time.
It's hard to keep up sometimes.

(48:34):
It really is.
Speaking of hard to keep up.
There you go.
Look at this web blander. You did it right
there. You did it right.
Warhammer making too many products.
Is it impossible to keep up?
I agree. You did it.
You did a great job. I saw it.
I saw the volley.
I saw the volley. I was like, I take it.

(48:56):
Let's suck that right up.
So yeah.
So
I'm sorry. Just
put a girl full on Beastman there.
So are there too many
in all seriousness, in all seriousness, this is an
interesting question actually, right?
Are there too many products
to keep up with? Now are we talking
40k or are we talking wider

(49:18):
games workshop? Everything.
There are a lot of products
if you look through it. There are
a nuts amount of stuff for
games workshop.
And it's kind of getting to a point now where I've
noticed some of the game systems are kind
of cycling out
model ranges or
things like that. And obviously we've had that
with 40k for a while. You know, we've lost

(49:40):
loads of stuff to Legends in 10th
edition especially.
Pretty much they're just killing all the Forge world apart
from the big, big ones that they want
to make real dollar on.
Go on. Yes.
No, I just wanted to unpack that before you moved on to
your next thing. I find that interesting
that like that's happening in
40k.
I mean it makes sense. 40k

(50:02):
is really old. It's an old game. There's still fucking
kits on the store that come
from the 90s. Catachans, I'm looking
at you, right? It makes sense
that they want to cycle through that. Also killing
fucking fail cast or whatever.
The bit that slightly freaks me out is when they get
rid of whole secondary games like
Warcry. Well, Warcry
is still produced
as a game. Like they still sell

(50:24):
it in the shops but it is now just basically
a sort of current version or
like a sort of future expansion of Warcry.
It's like a quick... I've heard it's for the chopping block though.
I've heard it's not long for the swell.
I haven't heard that but I mean I know
for what I was saying when
we were talking about this a second ago is
them losing model ranges is actually
the point I was going to make was Warcry
because this is a game

(50:46):
that as you guys know if you listen to the show
regularly is near and dear to my heart
and they got rid of all the OG
warbands that came out
with the original sort of box set
and the original launch of the game. So they've just
stopped producing all of those now. You just can't get
hold of them apart from obviously
through second hand or ebay
etc. So it's an interesting
one because that is

(51:08):
obviously quite a small game compared
to many of their other lines
but it's strange to see
them cycling out what is basically
modern models. They're all
recent kits within the last sort of
I don't know, six years or so.
Or maybe seven or eight
years but whatever you know it's not been around that
long. So it's interesting.

(51:30):
I have
a sneaking suspicion it's
all about that top top dollar
right and keeping us fulfilled
with plastic wrap because
I remember back in my youth
when I used to buy white dwarfs when I was younger
and we're talking like late
90s early 2000s.
Obviously white dwarf is a monthly publication
and at the end of the white

(51:52):
dwarf magazine you'd have your pre-order
section where you could order from the
Trollpacking Trolls, the GWs
and whether it was a handwritten
order form with a check back in hell
back in those days or
a phone call or whatever.
Fucking honestly now I do feel
old. But
that would be all the pre-orders
for the month. The

(52:14):
month right and there
wouldn't necessarily be that much.
Granted there would be something
new every month in inverted commas right
but something might be just like a character
or a book or whatever or
a couple of regiments for fantasy or whatever.
Now we are
getting whole
army refreshes
in a week by week

(52:36):
basis. We're getting like pre-orders in
a weekly turnover or fortnightly
basis and that's fucking
crazy with more
specialized games that have ever been
part of the Warhammer slash Games
Workshop Ambarella where there's like
Roarquai, Horus Heresy which
itself is like a major model range
which would have rivaled the model ranges
of 90s 40k right.

(52:58):
Old World which is
practically fantasy, Age of Sigma
which is like updated fantasy
40k obviously
Blood Bowl
like fucking hell Nekomanda and every
fucking model that that
crazy game has come out with right.
You know and then the
crazy weird ones like what is
epic now and not it's the

(53:20):
Horus Heresy minions or whatever.
Dude
I get it, I get it
but I do think it's a
little bit much where I'm just like dude
hold on like
whoa like
and I genuinely think that the major problem
with it is that
additions are far too short
and I've talked about this before

(53:42):
where I think mainline additions
and I get the push
right to get all the factions out
I totally understand because you're gonna get that
poor sap that plays one faction
and that's all they play and it's at the
end of it well yes or World
Eaters or whatever it's at the end of that
addition right.
I totally get that but then give it
another two years after all your factions have

(54:04):
come out right. Why it
feels like you feel a little bit like
it's a non stop circular
kind of movement is that
you get to the end of the addition
and then all the factions coming out
and then a new fucking addition starts it's like
whoa hold on we've got all the pieces now
like fuck off like give me some time
and it's like and I know it's a
excuse to print money right.

(54:26):
It's like it's like
actually give us a little bit
more time especially now
the reason why additions used to get stale
was that you wouldn't have much
support for that addition towards the end of the addition
and then you'd be like
fuck I hate that I hate
like in a cycle or whatever
yeah yeah or whatever or
whatever right but the fact that it's

(54:48):
so supportive through an addition
gives a healthier metagame
which you should be
able to make an addition last longer than you expect
it to last right. Especially if
you throw some crazy campaign stuff in there
or whatever right or some crazy
mission decks or whatever
competitive or whatever right.
Make a core addition last longer
and then it gives you just

(55:10):
a little bit of breathing space but I
don't know you could just argue that there's just too many
fucking games and it's just like
you're never gonna buy everything
like I think if you were a hardcore
Warhammer slash anything fan
you'd be drowning in plastic crap
you would be remortgaging your house
and like do you know what I mean? I don't think people
can afford to play all those fucking systems
these days to be honest with you.

(55:32):
I certainly can't I'm like you know
I actually you know don't buy
a huge amount of 40k these days
as I've spoken about previously but
I think it's if you
want to keep up with everything you couldn't
keep up with the painting of it.
It's nuts. It's just
you'd have to have a whole house full of people doing it.
What you literally what happens
when you buy books on mass right you literally

(55:54):
die on your reading shelf where you're like yeah
yeah yeah dead do you know what I mean?
That's how you'd be with your pile of shame it'd be like
life life life life life death
and it's just like
We're gonna have like attics and garages
full of grey plastic that's gonna be like our
antics. What our kids are like what the fuck
is all this shit? I'm loving the idea of 40k
on the antics roadshow one day do you know what I mean?
Oh my god is that a metal scout?

(56:16):
Is that
a sealed box of Leviathan?
I remember when this is the tits back in
ha ha ha
love deem rider
Is that a ballista's dreadnought?
Oh yeah
Anyway but yes
I mean I get why
gamesworks would do it as you said
it's a license to print money why would I not

(56:38):
as a company make a new edition every two
or three years as usually two
where I can sell a huge
box set and get all the big adverts
out on tv and suck a whole load of children
into plastic crackland every
single two years I would 100%
do it because I'm just rolling in my big piggy bank
However however there is
such a thing as product fatigue
and the one company that's struggling

(57:00):
with that at the moment is old wizards of
the coast just to use another
another company as an example
here Magic the Gathering
is kind of in a weird place right now where Magic
the Gathering has a the most
uns and I love magic I'm not on
the anti magic train like I played
competitive magic quite a lot in my past actually
I'm sweaty enough
to be and essentially

(57:22):
yeah the one
problem that you have with modern magic again
not to be old man magic is that you have
a billion sets coming out every year
to the point where you get a bit
product fatigui and then a lot
of people leave the game on
mass so the one issue that you
do have with doing this is yeah it
produces money in the short term but
then you fuck over your player base in the long

(57:44):
term because then they just get fatigued
and go actually I'm
kind of I need space here like
yeah like I think the issue is
partly like especially
from a competitive standpoint a lot of people
want to play a lot of armies
because they want that flexibility
diversity yes it's also just the
ability to be like cool
my space marine is a dog shit

(58:06):
currently and you know
I want to move on to play my elder
and now they're amazing and then actually
shit elder a bit rubbish that never happens
but I'm bored of my elder now I want to
play my necrons or whatever so
that is kind of a thing
and I do think people are kind of pushed especially
with all the like fast releases
the frenetic build up but the sort of
like

(58:28):
what you would call it product scarcity
when they release all these boxes like look at the
ec box that we've literally just had released
it's already out of stock in most bases
you struggle to find one now
so
which produces that
I've got to get it quickly that
FOMO like focus
even I didn't want to play him for
children I was tempted to you almost got the fucking box

(58:50):
yeah of course I did yeah I'm not going to play them
in my brain I was like and
the only thing that put me off was like do I want this
more than beastman and I was like no I don't
so I was like I'm holding up
anyway
and
I am a beastman I'm a big old tauren
so leave me alone
I mean
I mean sure

(59:12):
you thought it was a tail?
I let you think that
alright I mean
if you want to pull that
I mean
we're like
we're in spot right now dude
like wow
what's this
anyway
I just did that as a gift

(59:34):
with the sound
with the sloppy sound
I did that as a gift someone make it happen
oh my god yes he is
oh my god
do it do it
look at your face
people please
everything on the internet lasts forever doesn't it
I need that sloppy BJ sound please
in my life I need it

(59:56):
speaking of sloppy BJs
final subject nothing in common
with sloppy BJ
I think we've finished there I think that was a fair
place to end it to be fair
what are your thoughts everybody
tell us please
I think they are actually I think they are making too many
products I think they are letting us know
you are
I do think they're making too

(01:00:18):
many products and I think you need to not
go the way of MGT right now
because that company
needs some serious talking
to
I think they're fine I think we should just keep the cadence I like lots of releases
you're just like
drown me in minis
drown me
it's still nice the thing is if you do
loads of minis then there's probably going to be more

(01:00:40):
of a chance of me getting something for my army
down the line
second hand
so final lore topic
of this week's awesome
show thank you very much Ed
the thunder warriors
the fall of the thunder warriors
the woe
thunder
so

(01:01:02):
what do you
I think this is subject to your quite like
thin on the ground right
I do know who the thunder warriors are I do know
what they were made
for and I do know that
you know because for those of you
I'm going to get Krusty correct me as I go
make a really hash job
explaining the lore of
my games of dark angel judgement

(01:01:24):
layman's thunder warriors
so
the old big E
was like we need
to slap this planet into shape
a little bit and I feel like
getting a bit frisky with the old genetic
manipulation so you basically made
like effectively proto space
marines called the
thunder warriors who I think

(01:01:46):
had quite a lot of sort of defects in
terms of how
they actually sort of
you know operated
lasted and etc etc
but Russell get
so he used the thunder warriors
basically as his sort of
hammer
to just go around kicking the shit out
of everyone on earth

(01:02:08):
am I correct to get what he wanted
and bring it in line so during the times
of unification so we're talking
before the great crusade
when earth needed to have
its shit pushed in after
what happened in regards to
meddling around with AI that it shouldn't have done
and you have all these warring warlords
trying to control terror essentially
the the old

(01:02:30):
emperor enters the game the
emperors entered the chat and needed
a way of bullying essentially the rest
of terror to do what it
do his great plan right
as you say thunder warriors with the
proto space marines
get this does this sound
familiar 20 thunder
warrior legions
each with a leader

(01:02:52):
called a primark
as a
exactly as a
position of authority
within those 20 legions
can you stop me where we've seen
this one before
but as you quite rightly said ed and you
were 100% correct in this they had
some issues
as they were the

(01:03:14):
proto designed believe it or not
much stronger than your average space
marine ed way stronger
than your average space marine
but that comes at a cost my friend
the space marines spoiler
that are pretty fucking hard so to
have a force that is stronger
than a space marine you need to cut
some corners and as a result
the old thunder warriors actually

(01:03:36):
died earlier
of failure
like organ failure and stuff like
that because theoretically
space marines could live
forever within reason we don't know
I mean hashed out look at Dante
for example right
that fuck has been nearly serving
10,000 years in the imperium but my point
is that like as chaos space marines

(01:03:58):
is a great example right
but they died
after 40 50 years of service
where their organs just like give up
essentially also when you're
roiding up that fucking
big old thunder warrior
inevitably you're going
to get some old personality defects
so you're going to be very aggressive
you're going to be not able to be

(01:04:20):
to contained
within a non warfare concepts
and what happens when those
those guns are silent and you
have a relative time of peace
what do you reckon Ed?
They all lose their shit dreadnought style
and go and then they
need to be put down motherfucker
so interestingly enough
do you know what happened to the old thunder warriors?

(01:04:42):
Weren't they put down
by the space marines or
were they
that is not true like redacted
information imperial
decree so according to
the official imperial line
the mighty thunder warriors
died in service and united
the imperium at the battle of mount
Ariat okay

(01:05:04):
is that true? I think it's
bullshit it is bullshit
it is bullshit do you know what
happened to the poor old thunder warriors?
They were eradicated
by the OG
eradicators and people would be like
oh the custodes and partially
so but actually
it was my boys that did it it was the old
dark angels that did it

(01:05:26):
so Constantine
Valdo and the old
custodes
were basically the spearhead
in removing
the old poor old thunder warriors from
the table who were just united
mankind underneath the imperial
banner of course
I mean rest in peace like
all went out for my boys

(01:05:48):
and my
favourite legion were also
instrumental in doing this
so the proto dark
angels the first legion
some of which that eventually did survive
all the way through into the Horus
heresy and beyond were
part of that eradication force
led by Constantine Valdo obviously
no lion because he had been scattered to the winds

(01:06:10):
at this point he was some mogli
boy grown up in Caliban at this point in time
maybe Mark Dux Sedras and stuff like that
were part of this force but essentially
led by Constantine Valdo
they crushed
all opposition in front of them
taken quite hideous casualties on the way I
do contend and also Constantine
Valdo was not a fan

(01:06:32):
of this plan
he didn't like it
at all he took out
Usotan who was like the
leader of the thunder warriors who
respected a lot during
the rise of the imperial because obviously
Constantine had been fighting beside these
fucks for the last like
50 to 100 years
then turn on them and kill their leader

(01:06:54):
it was a bit of a pill to swallow
and during
their duel
Usotan was making jives at like
the dark angels behind him and like
they look fucking shit mate like
they look like psychos like absolute
psychos they're the more machine
he's more machine than man and
taking jives that he's like I wouldn't trust them
and Constantine's like I actually kind of

(01:07:16):
don't which is a bit
of foreshadowing for what obviously came
later not just from the
dark angels but from the wider imperium
as a whole right
but yeah so the poor
thunder warriors basically got eliminated
extinction and fled and the
dark angels got a bit of
practising for what they would do with the fallen
later by hunting them down across the galaxy

(01:07:38):
and eradicating them
couple did eventually survive all the way
to the sea to terror and stuff
but we're talking drips and
drags and eventually their bodies would
just fail them anyway and just eventually
die but interesting
the fuckery here
of the emperor himself right and
again the naughty boy
and also the great

(01:08:00):
game of imperial propaganda
to spin it as like
this great thing that thunder warriors
did and then in actual fact it was
the imperium all along crushing
their embarrassment
what are your thoughts on that?
I mean it's typical big E shenanigans
isn't it he's like all these guys
need bringing in lines so I'll create a killing force
to do it and then he's like oh you guys know

(01:08:22):
too much so I'm going to kill you with my new killing
force 2.0 and then
where does it end? I mean I suppose
it ends with him sitting on a big golden throne
getting psychostrain at him but you know
yeah
I mean
to be fair to the big E
and this is where I become a big
E apologist always right
it's like it was the most efficient thing to do

(01:08:44):
sure I mean the
unification walls needed to happen right
the earth needed to be brought in line otherwise
it would have basically destroyed itself
so I think I get it
but also
and I kind of get the need for
a 2.0 because if the thunder warriors
have got such massive flaws
to their design then you needed
a 2.0 could there have been a better way of

(01:09:06):
doing it maybe I don't know
I suppose if there are all these
raging nutcases that are just going to lose their shit
if they're not in a battle that's just probably the best
way for them to go anyway because
it's like Valhalla for them right?
The thing that I find interesting right is like the
big I don't think the big E was necessarily
limited by technological
choices because he creates
the casodes like Val'dor's

(01:09:28):
there right and they're the optimal
perfect thing right
unless he was just experimenting
as he does and he's just like how
how far can I push this army
before it implodes right
where like I think
he wanted the space marines to be this
aspirational angels
of death look at how
awesome I am my ego

(01:09:50):
is attached to these things because
although you can always
arguably say that the
the old casodes are
superior in every way to a marine
they are not mega aspirational
because they are essentially
glorified bodyguards right they just hang out
in terror you rarely see them outside the
imperial palace right but when you've got
a space marine almost be the personification

(01:10:12):
of the imperial truth
and the aspirational
thing of what an average
person could become yeah
you know
it's slightly different although
he did have to commit war crimes
in making the space marines compare to the thunder warriors
because no true
because obviously one of the most
morally

(01:10:34):
fucked up elements of making a space marine
is the whole child abuse thing where
you essentially have to make them
when they're young
kind of before slash
during puberty right where you're like
right where the thunder warriors
were all grown ass men
right which
you had two issues you had
one issue which was of course their genetic

(01:10:56):
slash instability
and then the other is that their full
grown ass men that have their
own opinions about life that
are then given god complexes
compared to a child
that you can kind of catholicize
and kind of get into the
imperial truth and brainwash
him and be like a
servant of the throne right and

(01:11:18):
use them thus so
interesting
that the fact that he could have made space marines
from the start yeah chose
not to in this instance
one of the interesting questions I have about this is
these different legions
of thunder warriors
did they have specializations
they did no so
gene seed wasn't a thing well because they

(01:11:40):
were from earth right so they're not
from Fenris and up for so
so ironically enough I think this
was the emperor shitballing in as much
as from what I can ascertain
and please ignore me if I'm incorrect
there was
no gene seed structure as
we know it from like the
and in actual fact the prime valdor
was surprised as anybody with

(01:12:02):
the dark angels because he presumed
the space marine project had been abandoned due
to the primarchs being scattered to the four
winds right so
but for more intensive purposes
what we do know is that there were some
specializations of combat
doctrine within the context of those
20
thunder warrior legions that may
not have been dissimilar to

(01:12:24):
the starties
but obviously without a primarch as
we know ironically the position
of authority was called a primarch
but they weren't at the same primarch
power level in terms of that
one thunder warrior being uber
strong he was just a random thunder warrior
that just so happened to be hard as
fuck right because they were because
of being in that authority position

(01:12:46):
um but
yeah I mean really
interesting and I think in terms of like
imperial propaganda
for me I think it's so that the emperor
could have a clean slate with the great
crusade where he intentionally
designed the thunder warriors
to be a burn fast
be brutal let me consolidate
power and then to

(01:13:08):
create an aspirational force
that humanity can then be like
oh like all over like
falling over and kind of romanticizing
and painting them as like
stained glass windows or writing
books on them or whatever do you know what I mean
rather than do that with like
a slightly mutated fucking
horrible looking thunder
warrior who's all grizzled

(01:13:30):
and fucking roided up and
frothing up the mouth and wanting
to kill you everyone you care about
and your dog too
sorry sounds like world eaters
yeah yeah absolutely
absolutely so yeah to be honest
that's a really good analogy I think the thunder warriors are pretty
close to where world eaters were at
but at the same time they were a bit
sassy bastards where they did constant

(01:13:52):
some shit about the space marines and
how fucking weird they were and how
like how like
unified and
I imagine they were quite stoic
right and really mega serial
and like you know when you've got these like
quite like rock star thunder warriors
that are like yeah fuck you yeah
and then you've got this silent stoic
dark angel like

(01:14:14):
a bunch of serial killers basically
yeah cloaked
I mean they didn't have the aesthetic of caliban yet right
but gene seed of the lion
is strong and it's like you know that straight
stoicness and even
for space marines like that is a
new level of stoicism right
and they're just like silently
marching towards you and you're like
okay

(01:14:36):
I'm out I'm gonna dip yeah
not good not good
but it's an interesting
one though because I mean it's an important part of the
the history you know
of the 40k
universe
gives us an insight into Valda's
headspace in regards to the Astatis
where he wasn't happy he was not
that pro Astatis you know

(01:14:58):
he wasn't like you know but he's such an intelligent
and strong being being like
I don't think this is a good idea Big E
I think this is gonna go bad
and what happened well we got the Horus Heresy
and you know it went bad
and you know and who knows
you know in the Emperor's great design
and maybe we should talk about this in the future
what was the end game
for space marines right

(01:15:20):
coming to a future
episode of In the Tank 40k
at least he didn't do it live
this time normally he's like
yeah
I don't know how tempted I was
I saw you going like
I'm looking at my pen and I'm going
you know I'm gonna bring it up that's why
he didn't do it
it's bad

(01:15:42):
you know was that always
part of the plan was the space marines gonna be
eradicated I look forward to us getting
roasted in the comments because I feel like loads of people
in here eat actually
I think you'll find
I don't think there's anything to call us out on really
I think it's quite
you know we've done alright
but the reason I get away with
is because my blatant lack of knowledge

(01:16:04):
just gives me a free pass
whereas you actually like
make bold claims about knowing stuff
I don't care
I know more about the law than most
I know you don't care
this just makes me laugh
I'd like to think that I know a fair bit about the law
to be fair
I know fucking looting on Wolflord Row
but I try

(01:16:26):
I'm certainly better than a major kill
no no no no
I actually kind of find him funny at times
and he is a cool dude
but fucking hell man is he loose
he is loose as fuck
he is loose as balls
there we go
right
thank you everybody thank you my beautiful co-host

(01:16:48):
Eds it was lovely to do it
the energy was nice today
we were recording it on a different day
so this is
yeah we're doing a late night special again
although we do need to
do a Patreon hangout
for those on the Patreon
we will do we will get that scheduled in
for you guys
anyone who's on the Discord or Patreon

(01:17:10):
I think we need to really do that
because that would be really fun actually
and of course when does the battle band really end
battle band battle band battle band battle band
battle band battle band battle band battle band
end of March
let's go
then I get to beat you on there
let's go beat you on there
it's going to be awesome
I look forward to getting shit pushed in

(01:17:32):
we need to do a fantasy game and I bring him a beastman
eugh
thank you
you say that
one day one day
one day
it's not even a game
it's a game
it's comming to be a game
if you need to do more time though
come the fuck on

(01:17:54):
when they do Mordheim again
better then War Cry
fuck off
such a wank game
so wank is getting cancelled
you're going to get cancelled
I hope not
Christ have I
well we love you all
thank you for listening as always
Yeah, please do. And jump into the Patreon. Join us for this

(01:18:19):
this monthly hangout.
Yeah, we need to get that in the diary. That'd be well fun.
Awesome.
Really good.
Laters!
See you guys.
Ciao! Thank you.
You all right?
Bye!
Bye!

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Episode 36: Can Anyone Keep Up With Games Workshop?

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