December 11, 2024 • 42 mins
The holiday season is here, and with it comes a whirlwind of emotions, from joy to exhaustion. In this episode, we share our personal takes on navigating holiday stress, family dynamics, and the pressure to meet societal expectations. Fresh off our podcast trip to Delray Beach, Florida, we reflect on the importance of bite-sized joy, balancing traditions, and the struggles of managing festive obligations. If you're feeling the weight of the season, this conversation will resonate deeply. Join us as we unpack everything from decorating woes to finding gratitude amidst the chaos.
Expect laughter, honest moments, and practical tips to help you find peace and joy during the holidays. This episode is your guide to a more mindful and intentional season.
Episode Highlights:
[0:03] - Reminiscing about our recent podcast trip to Delray Beach.
[3:13] - Holiday decorating dilemmas: Why putting up ornaments feels more like a chore this year.
[7:09] - The pressures of "forced joy" during the holidays and longing for a reset.
[16:04] - Dreaming of an ideal holiday getaway: Exploring the balance between relaxation and adventure.
[27:07] - Alternate career dreams: From museum curator to Dateline investigator.
[35:10] - Exploring societal anger and the intriguing case of the UnitedHealthcare CEO murder.
[40:13] - How gratitude practices and "brain rot" TV marathons can coexist during the holidays.
Resources:
For more on this topic visit our website insightsfromthecouch.org If you have questions please email us at info@insightsfromthecouch.org we would love to hear from you!
If today's discussion resonated with you or sparked curiosity, please rate, follow, and share "Insights from the Couch" with others. Your support helps us reach more people and continue providing valuable insights. Here’s to finding our purposes and living a life full of meaning and joy. Stay tuned for more!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colette Fehr (00:03):
Music. Hi guys.
Welcome back to insights fromthe couch for one of our special
holiday season. Mini sodesExcited to be here with you
again today, and we are freshoff our trip, our podcast field
trip to Delray Beach, Florida,where we got to be a part of our
friends at the back ninepodcasts annual celebration for
(00:24):
their one year anniversary,which was so fun, right? Have a
little podcast journey.
Laura Bowman (00:33):
It was so fun. It was just such a fun trip, such a
departure from daily life. Butso needed, yeah, I mean, the
walk on the beach. And first ofall, it was so fun to be there
and meet everyone, because we'vebeen guests on the back nine
podcast, and they have Josh andDennis, who host that podcast,
having guests on our podcast,and they're kind of catering to
(00:56):
men in middle life, and we'rekind of catering to women in
middle life, even though we bothhave listeners who are, you
know, the opposite sex as well,but to put faces in person to
names, and you know what, peopleyou've met online, and then also
to meet their partners was somuch fun. They're so nice,
(01:17):
really, really cool women. Andyeah, to be live, right? We know
we were doing that. I know no isit was so different. And it's,
it's cool to meet people thatyou've talked it's different
when you meet people in reallife,
just the energies of people canbe different. So I thought it
was so much fun. We laughed sohard on this trip. Okay,
Unknown (01:41):
that was the best part.
First of all, I have not shareda hotel room or a hotel bed with
anyone other than my husband ina long time. Well, I
feel so flattered.
I mean, we had our king bed. Itwas like so sleepover style. I
know you did not care for mysound machine.
(02:02):
I rolled with it, though, right?
I find that such the like,height of irony though, that you
want a sound machine when youhate, like extraneous noise,
yes,but it's that kind of soothing
background. It's a storm. It tome, it just makes my whole
nervous system at ease. Butthank you for rolling with it,
(02:23):
because a lot of people arelike, this thing sucks. Yeah,
so tired. I don't think I cared.
I know,I know, but the best was like,
as we get home and we're justand but we went to a beautiful
Italian dinner, right? So good,so perfect.
Laura Bowman (02:45):
Del Rey is just an absolute gem of a place. I mean,
you need to have about, youknow, three to 5 million to,
like, live in a townhouse there.
But it is so nice and it was theweather was. How perfect was the
weather? Oh, my God.
Colette Fehr (03:04):
Like humid, yeah, I know. And it
Unknown (03:07):
didn't even feel like the holidays, like I'm so
divorced from the holiday atthis point, like I Okay,
just I don't want to talk aboutthat, because I feel the same
way I feel so Steve is out oftown right now. Before he left,
he put up the tree, he took outthe ornament boxes. I usually
(03:27):
put them up, and he does, likethe very top, where I can't
reach the all the ornament boxesare out, and they have to be put
on because, like, the house isbeing cleaned tomorrow. I don't
even want to put ornaments on mytree,
Laura Bowman (03:44):
because my tree, I have two trees. I did one of
them. My second big family treethat's in the family room has
sat there with lights on, andthe ornament box is sitting
there for like, over a week.
Yeah, I can't get the energy todo it either. It's like the last
thing me too, and I don't, yeah,we are in our lives. Is that
just, I wonder if that'semblematic of other people at
(04:05):
this phase. I
Unknown (04:08):
know, like, are you guys who are listening? Are you
feeling this way too? I mean, Ido have friends who decorate out
the Yin Yang, and it's amazing.
And I know there are people whoreally enjoy that, and it's not
ba humbug. Like I don't feellike the Grinch. I just feel
exhausted. I feel like I have alot to do. It feels like one
more task that I must do. Andfor who? Who is it for? I don't
(04:34):
really give a fuck right now, ifthere's like, a tree with
ornaments, I'm not even gonna behere. I'm leaving for New York
on the 19th, you know, like, whymust I do this? Yeah,
and I have a house full of kids,but, like, nobody's invested in
it. Nobody's like, can we help?
No, I had, like, my one sonsaid, like, are we ever gonna
(04:54):
get like, the ornaments on thetree, which is like, code for,
like, when are you gonna do it?
Mom? Yeah. Exactly, andmy kids will be home in like, a
week. They'll barely be around,but they'll be like, Why haven't
you put up the tree? You know?
They'll be sort of horrifiedthat I'm neglecting my inborn
(05:16):
mother duties by like, notmaking the house look like
Christmas when they'll flythrough my house grabbing
something and be in and out. Youknow what? I mean? It's just but
that's exactly what it is. It'slike we have to continually hold
the space of mother, even longafter kids don't really want or
need it, but they want you tostill want to be in that space.
(05:41):
Okay? No, I think you're right,because I'm just picturing I'm
going home to New York just fora few days to see my brother and
his partner and daughter, andsay, We're all packing in. My
kids are coming with me. We'reall packing into my mom's house.
And my mom will not put up atree. You know, she hasn't moved
that well, so she's stoppeddoing that, which is totally
(06:04):
fine. She has, like, a littlemini tray, and I don't give a
shit. I'm not like asking her tohold the space of mother. I
mean, I know I'm 51What about when you were 21
would you have cared?
Colette Fehr (06:18):
Yes, I would have.
Okay, whatever you know. How'syour answer?
Unknown (06:23):
You kind of have to get to these places yourself before
you're willing to give your ownparents grace around this of
like, Oh, I get it. It's kind ofa drag. Don't waste your time.
Yeah, but let's talk about howthe holidays impact us. Because
I saw a study that said as muchas 90% of the population finds
(06:46):
the holidays more stressful thanjoyful, and that's a lot that
means almost everyone. I do findmyself and I don't normally feel
this way, but I find myselfwanting to put my finger on a
fast forward button, like an oldfashioned tape recorder machine.
And could it just be January 15?
Could it just be Martin LutherKing Day?
(07:09):
Why? Because you just want toget through all of the like,
awkwardness of, like, notworking and yeah, like,
what? Yeah. Why is it, you know?
Why is it that I because I don'tfeel that I have a lot well,
okay, I guess the pressures ofand all this stuff, it just
feels like you're expected. Lifesort of suspends. You have to
(07:30):
interact a lot with family, youhave to decorate, cook, eat,
drink. I mean, you don't haveto, but it just feels like this
mini season of like, forced joythat I'd rather just like reject
and focus on my life. Yeah,and I'm the same. I'm a real
creature of routine and habit,and then these extended trips
(07:53):
out of routine, especially whenthere isn't, like, if there was
a trip planned, maybe that wouldsound fun, but it's just these
like, endless days of like, whatdo we do now? And it's a lot of
shopping and it's a lot ofeating and a lot of drinking,
and it just doesn't feel verygood. Doesn't feel productive. I
don't love it either at thispoint. I i love joy, I love
(08:13):
family, but I like it in bitesize pieces. I like snack size
Joy bites, snack size joy. Ilove it like a Hershey Kiss not
falling in a vat at like theHershey, you know, factory in
Pennsylvania,like our dinner at Delray and
(08:34):
then laughing our asses off likefor an hour about all manner of
things. Bite sized joy that likeit tastes so good, it is so
good, you'll always remember it.
But enforced joy that like goeson for multiple weeks where it's
like, you will have fun, youwill enjoy yourself, you will
(08:56):
relax.
It can create the opposite,yeah, and I'm getting ready and
listen, I love my family. Ican't wait to see my brother. I
haven't seen him in like, overtwo years, and I miss him, you
know, and I barely get to seehis daughter. I haven't seen her
since just after she's born. Soall of that's wonderful, and of
(09:16):
course, being with my daughtersfor a few days. But there's also
the part of me we're gonna have.
I don't even know how manyadults, like eight or nine
adults, packed into a fourbedroom house, a little child,
their dog is coming. I will notbe able to be in my room that I
do very much. Still consider myroom. You've seen pictures of my
(09:36):
high school bedroom, Laura'sAshley bedroom, yes, my Laura,
Ashley bedroom that has not beenredecorated since like 1987 Yes,
and I love it like that roomfeels like home to me more than
anything. Yeah, I've beensleeping in that room since I'm
seven. So and I go up to NewYork a lot, as you know, so it
really does still feel like myhouse. So and then, you know,
(09:59):
from traveling with me, I need,like, my sounds. I like, need my
I mean, I think at this age,it's hard to be sleeping on an
air mattress. My daughters areso close, but they also fight
like, you know, female prisoninmates, literally, and it's a
lot of women with strongpersonalities, myself included,
(10:24):
there might be conflict. Oh,it's a given. And I'm probably
gonna be sleeping on like acouch or an air mattress in the
de facto living room with like adog running around jumping on
me. That isn't mine. I and thenI'm going to be shelling out
(10:44):
money because my childrenbreathe, and it's expensive,
especially in New York. Yes.
Laura Bowman (10:52):
Oh, the shopping I I've like, I've shed, like we
talked about this in the lastone, like so many of the holiday
rituals. But it's still, I knowit's still so much gift giving,
Unknown (11:06):
I know. I know so, okay, a friend of mine was
posting stuff about why it's soimportant to still give your
spouse a present, like not takeyour spouse off the list. We do
not do this. We're going on atrip in March, and I was like,
don't buy me anything. First ofall, I don't need some like
thing. I can't think of onething I want. If someone were
(11:29):
gonna give me a gift, what Ireally want is, like, make my
life feel more relaxing somehow.
That's all I want. Do you guysdo gifts? Do you think that's
important?
Laura Bowman (11:40):
Okay, so this is how it goes. This is every year
we always do for the kids. I dofor the kids. This year I
announced to them, becausethey're all older, I've got
2218, almost 17, so and they allneed money, right? Like, that's
just the way it is. And I killmyself doing gifts, like I when
I give my kids gifts, I like toreally think about what I want
(12:01):
to get them this year. I'm like,I'm not doing that. I said I'm
getting you, like, stockingstuffers, and you're getting
money, because you all needmoney, yeah, and that's what.
And then if you want to buyyourself something, or you want
to save it all, that's on you. Ialready announced that that's
what's happening. But here'swhat we do, and that's smart,
right? That feels good, yeah.
But between Joe and I and mymom, especially, my mom does
(12:24):
this thing every year. She goesmy my mom is a gifts person. She
loves her some gifts. And so shewill say, are we doing gifts
this year? And I'll say, I don'tneed gifts. And she's like, Oh,
thank God, I don't need giftseither. Then she shows up, and
she has Park Avenue, and she'slike, Oh, I got you like, I got
(12:44):
you something. I got you a fewthings. Like, I couldn't help
myself. And then, of course, shedefinitely wants me to get her a
few things, because Christmasmorning, she's going to feel
crest fallen. So then I have toscramble to get her a few
things. And it just goes on likethat, Joe and I, I don't think
we're okay if we don't getanything, but there's always,
(13:07):
like, usually, like, a lastminute something.
Unknown (13:13):
That's what Steve and I end up doing too. But then I
hate it, because I feel likethis is what starts to happen
every year. I'm like, I'msimplifying this. My kids are in
their 20s, Right? Steve, neitherSteve nor I are really, like,
Gifty people, like, I genuinelyam not upset, like, I don't need
a gift. Yeah, at all. It doesn'tmean anything to me. And I think
(13:34):
it's nice to have thisthoughtfulness concept. But I
can't think of one thing hecould get me that I would be,
like, he could, like, write me acard or something, or, you know,
making me a mix tape, which Iknow doesn't exceed, or, like, a
playlist, or writing mesomething, those are the only
(13:54):
things I really want at thispoint, or some kind of Travel.
So, you know, I just don'tThere's nothing I need. I got my
mom a pair of slippers shewanted, getting my dad a book.
My parents split a suitcase Iwanted for my Italy trip. Nice
that I asked for. So that'slovely. I just find the gift
(14:17):
thing, like every year with mygirls, I'm always like, you
really probably just want mine,because anything I pick for
them, they're not happy with,where, like, a bunch of like,
young women or teenagers, or,you know, they will, like, send
their mother, like, they'llregister, they'll send, like, a
list, like an Amazon list.
(14:37):
Oh, my God. I mean, okay, seenthat. No, but I would actually
love that if you tell me what toget you that you want, I'm happy
to do it like I'm happy I'mgonna get something for my
girls. I usually end up givingthem money. But then what ends
up happening is we're in NewYork, and then they see
something while we're out andabout, and they're like, Could
(14:58):
this be my Christmas. Gift. Soit just ends up like
proliferating. I don't know Thisalso sounds so like first world
problems. Play the fuckingviolin. You know, it just, it's
part of the grind. This is theway it goes. I think what I'm
realizing is that for me, thisyear has been a lot there. It's
(15:19):
been a lot of busyness, a lot ofoutput, working really, really
hard. And right now, I'm in alittle bit of a grind with all
of my projects where, like, notthat I'm not excited about the
big picture, but everything'sfeeling really hard and a little
bumpy. And I was saying to afriend the other day. I just
(15:41):
don't feel like there's anydopamine right now, nothing's
feeling super like, Oh, I didthis, and that feels great. And
so it just feels like it wouldjust be nice. Probably what it
is also is I haven't really beenon a vacation or taken a
vacation. I think I'm just alittle burned out. I think
(16:02):
that's really the truth, aswe're talking about this is
that what would feel good forthe holidays if you knew you
could, like, jet off somewhereand it was just gonna be like,
100% relaxation.
You know? What would feel good?
Because I'm not even like thatgreat at sitting around. What
would feel really good is if Icould go somewhere, if I knew on
(16:23):
like, December 22 I was gettingon a plane. I'm not sure who's
on the plane with me, to behonest. Am I by myself? Is it
just my husband? Is it myhusband and get like, how many
family members or friends, butwhatever the scenario is I get
on a plane, I'm gonna gosomewhere where I can relax and
(16:44):
explore. Yes, you know, so Idon't want to just be at like an
all inclusive Beach Resort. Iwant to be somewhere where I
could go wander around anddiscover things. I want not to
have to spend my own money likesomeone, fantasy person is
paying for this trip, andthere's no pressure, and there's
(17:06):
some kind of mind magic trickthat happens where I forget all
the stressful things that willbe facing me in January, and I'm
just like, at peace. I want themental load to be removed. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (17:22):
oh, that sounds amazing. And like, doesn't it
some novelty, like, when youtravel and you, like, discover
new places, and you find, like,a little bookstore, or you see
something that you've like, readabout, and it just, it inspires
you, like that, that process
Unknown (17:38):
Exactly. And we know our brains need novelty. There's
something that comes fromnewness that really
reinvigorates relationships, butrefreshes your soul, a new
atmosphere, a new environment,you get into a place of
curiosity, and you tend to getsome distance from your
(17:59):
stressors, not always, but a lotof times, and a little bit of a
different perspective,
Laura Bowman (18:06):
yeah, yeah. So
Unknown (18:09):
being that this magical solution isn't happening, what
are you one are you seeingclients like feeling stressed
about the holidays or
Laura Bowman (18:18):
Yeah? I mean, I think as we get closer, there
are more conversations aboutthat. But that's not, that's not
the bulk of the work I'm seeingright now. So neither let me,
I'll let you know in a week ifpeople are starting to feel
that. Yeah, I haven't seen that.
How about you? Are you seeing alot of people?
Unknown (18:39):
I think that people who are in here working on couples
therapy like Christmas is thelast fucking worry they have,
yeah, yeah, for the most part.
And you know what, me too, like,let me also give that
perspective that we're sittinghere talking about the holidays.
I just had breakfast with myfriend from Tulane Becca. She's
here for her son is this reallytalented golfer, and he got
(19:01):
invited into this golftournament, and I think he came
in ninth place. Yeah, he's only16. They live in Maine, yeah. So
it's a real treat that she cameup to Baldwin to meet me for
breakfast, and we really gotsome good quality one on one
time I last saw her when we wentto London together for a girls
(19:22):
trip for my friend Vanessa's50th birthday, about a year and
a half ago. So it was really, orI guess, a year ago, just over a
year ago. Anyway, it was reallyfun to do that. But as we're
sitting there outdoors havingbreakfast, and it's beautiful
here, it's kind of cool, Floridawise, but gorgeous, right? She
said something. I said, Oh, thisis what's funny about it. I
(19:46):
said, Oh, have you had snow yet?
Because she lives in Maine,she's like, Yeah, I'll show you
a picture. And then I was like,wow, you already have snow?
She's like, Yeah, it's December.
This is late for us. I'm like,Oh, my God, it's December. They
have snow. In October, right?
But what's crazy? Because,especially we live in Florida, I
am so, like you said, divorce. Ikeep forgetting, I don't know if
(20:09):
it's February, October, June,like the holidays are sort of
like a pain in the ass that Ijust want to get through. Yeah,
yeah.
Laura Bowman (20:20):
I'm in the same place. I mean, the whole, like,
Winter Park, Christmas paradehappened, the whole tree
lighting, yeah? And I hearmyself annoyed, yeah. Did you
go? Did you go to the Baldwin so
Unknown (20:31):
I didn't go. And then last night, a friend of mine, my
friend Jen, who also lives herein my neighborhood, was the big
Baldwin tree thing, which is sofun. And I yesterday. Okay,
maybe this is something that'shelpful. You tell me what you
think. I don't know. Yesterday Iwas gonna have a productive day.
I was gonna, like, take mymorning slow, and then I was
(20:52):
just gonna, like, ease intogetting some work done. Steve's
away. I'm by myself. I ended upI went for a long walk, which
was good, but I ended up layingaround, like, getting into,
like, yoga pants, pajama kind ofclothes. I watched the entire
half a season of the ultimatumon Netflix. Do you know about
(21:12):
it? No, Idon't watch a lot of stuff on
TV.
Oh my god. It's so was so good.
I got so engrossed. It's arelationship show, so I like the
dynamics. It's basically coupleswhere one has given the other an
ultimatum about getting married,and the other one is unsure for
a variety of reasons. So it'slike a reality show. Oh, it is a
reality show with Nick Lacheyand Nick and Vanessa Lachey as
(21:36):
the co host. They kind of annoyme. I feel like Vanessa is
always doing this, like fauxempathy, that feels so
insincere. But that part aside,they switch. They have a week to
date. There's like six couples.
They have a week to, like, go onmini dates with the partners
(21:56):
from the other couples. And thenthey pick someone else to have,
like a faux three week marriageto see if there's
what. I can't stand shows likethat. But have
Colette Fehr (22:11):
you ever watched a show like that? I've
Unknown (22:13):
watched like I can't sit through the bachelor. I
can't sit through the bachelor.
I I hate that shit. What is whatlike, why it makes me cringe. I
find it so like, I get like,such secondhand embarrassment. I
don't feel like the connectionsare deep or real. I think it's
all like, staged and stilted. Ifeel like, I feel like I can't
watch. I'm always like, Ah, thisdoesn't feel right. Okay? I
(22:36):
don't know. I mean, maybe that'san unpopular opinion. They're
obviously like, super, superpopular shows. I just, I can't
enjoy shows like that. Idon't know, so I think, I don't
think that's an unpopularopinion. I think some of the
reality TV I like, it would bevery easy to be like, What the
fuck is wrong with you Colette,that you want to watch that. But
(22:58):
I accept that some of it'sscripted, certainly, and even in
the like, I think bachelor andbachelorette are more fakey, and
I'm probably only watching thoseshows because I've been watching
them since the beginning. Sothere's just like a habit and
familiarity. But the ultimatum,what happens is, you are it's so
not healthy for people andexploitative, but you're taking
(23:19):
people and putting them into asituation that's really
psychologically hazardous fortheir attachment system. And you
can see people reallydecompensating, like, one guy is
the one giving the ultimatum.
He's 10 years older than hisgirlfriend. She's like,
(23:42):
stunningly beautiful, but youget the sense she's maybe just
not quite that into him. And shereally clicks with this other
guy who's like, a personaltrainer and super fit, and they
couple up. And the boyfriend,who's this artist, kind of
sensitive guy, couples up withthis girl he clicks with, but
he's really in love with hisfiance, and the girl he coupled
(24:06):
up with leaves so he's alone,and his girlfriend is across the
apartment thing, sleeping in thesame bed with this ripped dude
that she's Totally vibing with,and he is sobbing and melting
down. He breaks down and goesand bangs on the door of her
(24:26):
apartment, and she won't comeout. She blocks him. I mean, it
is, it's really, it's fucked up,but I find it interesting to see
the dynamics unfolding.
Laura Bowman (24:39):
My nervous system can't watch that. Like, even my
daughter's like, really in thelove Island.
Colette Fehr (24:44):
Oh, I love love Island.
Unknown (24:45):
Oh, my God, I hate it.
I hate it. Those poor people,like, when they get off the boat
and then, like, what is it thegirl does the the guy has to
pick a girl, right? Or does thegirl pick a guy? I can't
remember. Mix
Colette Fehr (24:59):
it up a little. It all. They mix it up
appreciating. There's
Unknown (25:02):
always like those four little there's always like
someone who's like, stuck off ontheir own, like, nobody wants
it's just, oh, I can't take it.
I know. And you know, we're alsowired, as human beings, of
course, to greatly fearrejection and abandonment. And
these shows basically exploitrejection and abandonment and
(25:22):
how you spiral in the face ofthat for entertainment. And
listen, I'm the asshole who'swatching. Okay, so I just, but
this is the only one. This iswhat I spent my day doing. I
watched the entire first half ofthe season. I did get a little
sunshine and walk. Then I readbooks, I listened to music, I
(25:44):
did nothing. I couldn't even putthe ornaments on the tree. That
Laura Bowman (25:50):
sounds absolutely perfect. That is what you need
when you feel burnt out, is youneed to just wander and follow
your own curiosity and desiresand do that. I have to do that
every once in a while too. Imean, mine doesn't involve to,
you know, love Island orwhatever, but it's the same.
Unknown (26:09):
You're so hot, bro, Laura and I'm so we're fine. So
in the gutterwith my puzzle and my HGTV and I
watch love it and list itsimulation as I can handle. No
interest
Colette Fehr (26:23):
in that.
Unknown (26:24):
See, I love it. I love it. Give a fuck. I could
live in a cardboard box. I justdon't care. You don't care.
Okay, yeah,me to the another thing we were
talking about when we werewalking in Delray. We were
talking about, you know, CherylStrayed in her book, tiny,
beautiful things, says that shehas this whole like passage
about the sister ship thatdidn't carry you, meaning like
(26:45):
the dreams you had that younever took the ghost ship that's
out there. And so we weretalking about careers that we
never did, but that we wishedwe'd done. And what are the
different things? Or even, whatdid we were also talking about,
like, the High, Low versions ofour dreams.
(27:08):
Like, if we weren't therapists,what would we be? And, like, I
wonder, you know what you guyslistening, you know, if there's
if you're not what you were,what would you have become?
Yeah, so what was yours? It'sso interesting because it all
like, sort of orients around,like the arts, and I said, I
said, work at Sotheby's, or I'dwork at a museum, like the
(27:29):
Smithsonian or the Met, and I'dbe in charge of something really
super random, like 17th century,like fine furniture, and then
I'd be like, this insufferableexpert, and I'd probably go
antiquing through, like, theNortheast, and I'd be like, Do
you know what this is? This is aChippendale data. And I don't
(27:51):
know why, but I've always been,like, obsessed with antiquity
and and, like, just homes andcultivate like things, and I
never did those things. I don'tknow why. I think it was because
I thought that was like, I thinkthere was a part of me that
judged it as sort of superficialand frivolous, and I felt like I
(28:12):
needed to do like something moreserious. Yeah. I mean, I know
that's part of what it was Ihave kind of like an artist and
a scientist in me, that sort ofbattle for dominance. Yeah,
Colette Fehr (28:26):
I relate to that.
Unknown (28:28):
But so when I was saying that, like, if, if none
of that worked out, I would justgo be like a character actor and
like Williamsburg working at theapothecary, racks me
up, right? That's like the lowthe low level version. So, yeah,
this is the path not taken, andI could so see it for you,
knowing you and the way yourinterests align. But it's really
(28:51):
interesting to think about, whatcould your alternative path have
been, where, like, you feltfulfilled and you felt alive in
your job, and for me, it wouldreally be having a role on TV
like in my ideal I would be atalk show host, because I could
still tap into my curiosity, myinsatiable curiosity, be about
(29:12):
people, and be connecting withpeople, or I was joking with you
a little that, you know, I lovecrime, I love dark I love
psychological darkness. I knowit's a meme to make fun of
middle aged women who are intothe murder shows, but I'm one of
them. I am that cliche. I cannotget enough Dateline, 48 hours,
(29:34):
True Crime documentary. I loveit only when they're well done,
but when you have a case thatshows a psychologically complex
character who's done some kindof really interesting murder and
maybe gotten away with it, orthe motive isn't clear. My brain
is experiences the mostengagement and joy like
(29:56):
possible. So I so funny. Yeah,yeah. I mean, I'm not alone, but
what I think would have been agreat alternate job for me, if I
were not a therapist, would bespecifically to have Andrea
Cannings job on Dateline. She'sthis, like, blonde, I feel like
her face never moves. I don'tknow. I just, I almost don't
(30:18):
know why, yeah, yeah, hopefullyshe's not listening to the
podcast. I just kind of She mustknow someone like, why does she
have the job? I don't feel likeshe does a good job. I feel like
I could do a better job. And Ifeel like I would literally show
up to work every day like you. Iwill pay you to let me do this
job. Yeah? Now my low levelversion, if I, if I couldn't be
(30:44):
at like, the peak, would be thatI work in an independent
bookstore, and I do a lot ofengaging with people, and I put
on a lot of events, and I spendmy day talking to people and
perusing and enjoying andcelebrating books. I love that
too, right? So before we wrapup, let's talk about what we're
(31:07):
reading. Tell me what likeyou're What are you reading
right now? And anyrecommendations you have for
everyone?
Well, the i right now, I haven'tread a ton. I i have read a lot
of stuff for work, so it's kindof boring, but the three books
that I've engaged with recentlyas I read Malcolm Gladwell is
the revenge of the tippingpoint, which I love. If you like
(31:30):
Malcolm Gladwell, if you likethat sort of social sciencey non
fiction,
Colette Fehr (31:34):
I heard it was like, the same thing repackaged.
Unknown (31:38):
It's not okay. I always get something out of his, his
take. I mean, he definitelyspins the narrative the way he
wants to spin it. But I get aton of,
what did you get out of thebook? Like, give a distillation,
like it's talking about whathappens, like the deleterious
(31:59):
side of the tipping point, there the first tipping point was,
like, how products tip, or ideastip in this book, he's really
talking about how things kind oftip in the opposite direction,
like, how Miami became, youknow, the crime capital the
world. Or, like, how, you know,like, Florida is, like, this
Medicaid toilet, bowl, yeah.
Like how we create stories andhow places shape the way you do
(32:24):
things, or how few people reallydrove the opioid, you know,
crisis, into the ground. And heshows you how easy it is for
dynamic to tip in a negative anddelete
gotcha. Gotcha. There's a sweetspot, and then it can crest over
(32:45):
the edge into something.
It doesn't even take much forsomething to go in a really bad
direction.
We're there. I mean, look atthis whole murder of the United
Healthcare CEO, and the waypeople are celebrating it and
mass right? This guy disappears,has the balls to shoot him, and
(33:07):
then New York streets in frontof all these other people, and
then takes off. Can't be found,leaves this backpack filled with
Monopoly money, bullets likewhat I mean, this was so well
planned, right when you'reetching, you know, words on the
Colette Fehr (33:25):
bullet, onto the bullets, denied, delay.
Unknown (33:29):
And, yeah, delay, I can't remember what
Colette Fehr (33:31):
they were. Yeah, me neither, but they were bad.
Unknown (33:34):
But clearly someone who's been so injured and
wronged by this system, orbecause I'm kind of obsessed
with this case, this is exactlythe sort of thing I love, not
because, first of all, there's areal reason there's so much
foment and anger toward theseexecutives. Yeah, you know,
these these companies aredenying people coverage and
(33:55):
medications and then gettingrich off of it. Now, I think
there's another side to thestory, which is that government
regulation is probably a lotmore to blame, in some ways,
than even these companies. Butregardless of the issue, it's
also Is this guy a disgruntledperson whose loved one died
because of a united healthcaredecline in coverage, or is this
(34:18):
an elaborate ruse to make thatlook like the motive? I know I
thought about that too, andmaybe, like, someone closer
inside job or something. Yeah,so inside job in the industry,
you know, he's separated fromhis wife. I mean, is he really?
Yeah, obviously I'm not tryingto, like, go on air and
(34:41):
speculate that his wife's amurderer, but you just don't
know. No, you never know. Andit's so on the nose, right? It's
so on the nose everything. Andlest I go down a total, total
rabbit hole, which I guess Ialready am, on this case, how
did he. Know where thisexecutive, Brian Thompson, I
(35:01):
think, is his name, was therefor, like, a united conference,
but he wasn't staying, he wasstaying across the street. Like,
how did he know all that? Howdid he know when this guy would
be walking? How did he knowwhere he was staying? It's just,
what do you feel like? It's thewife's lover or something like
(35:23):
it wouldn't knock you off yourchair, is what you're saying.
I mean, I think it's like veryhard to understand how this
random dude was able to get thisinformation as a lone wolf, and
it seems like a very organized,experienced planning Yeah, he
was in New York for like 10days, yeah,
(35:45):
yeah, staying at this hostel,wearing his mask. I mean, it's
just fascinating. And it isfascinating from a sociological
perspective, how people haveresponded. Like, you can really
feel the energy of like theFrench Revolution, where people
are so fed up with the uber richand how disenfranchised
(36:08):
everybody else feels andimpoverished, and people have,
like, had it. I mean,yeah, you can't pull on a system
the way, you know, people even,like I said when we were in Del
Rey, you couldn't get a shithole.
Colette Fehr (36:24):
Remember when I found my little place?
Unknown (36:26):
Yeah, I thought, Oh, this one will be affordable. It
was like, what? How many squarefeet? Was it Colette? 500 square
feet? Or how muchit was? The cutest little house
that's filled with tinyapartments. Okay, it's nothing
bougie. You'd have to be willingto live in something old. It
wasn't right on the beach, butit just was, like, charming in a
way. I like Tahiti Cove inDelray Beach. Yeah. I was like,
(36:50):
Oh my gosh. I could see having,like, a little condo here and
just being able to, like, comechill and like, write. And I
looked up, there was a place forrent. It was $7,500 a month for
a five I mean, of course, thiswon't be like surprising to
anyone living in like LA or NewYork, but it's South Florida's
gotten so expensive, and whenyou look at the pictures on
(37:14):
Zillow, the place was so uglyinside. I mean, it wasn't
remotely updated. The furniturewas disgusting.
550 square feet, like, you can'teven, like, turn around and they
wanted 7500 a month.
Colette Fehr (37:30):
Yeah, which, yeah, who's,
Unknown (37:34):
I mean, okay. I mean, I guess some people have that
money because they're there, butRight, I think that we are
really at this inflection pointas a society, a tipping point, a
real tipping point of just it isnot cool anymore for all of
these billionaires to do theirthing at the expense of normal,
(37:54):
especiallydenying a child medication, a
child with cancer. I mean, fuckoff. Oh my gosh, so it does. I
think that's one more thing,like before we get off, just the
way everything feels really intoI feel like society is crackling
with intensity. I feel likepeople are angry. The election
(38:17):
was not good. It was nothealthy. Regardless of how you
feel about the outcome, theprocess of politics, the
estrangement and families overpolitics, people are ending
friendships. They don't want totalk with people on the other
side. You know, there's so muchunrest in the world. It just
feels like there's a lot ofanger bubbling, not even
(38:39):
beneath, but like right at thesurface, I feel
it too. Yes, we're at aninflection point somehow, and
we'll have to see where it goes.
But it doesn't feel good,no? But on the bright side,
let's end on a bright note.
What's the bright side? TheBright Side is we're alive and
(39:00):
breathing. It's another day, andthere's much to be grateful for,
and this that that is the truestmental health thing ever, that
focusing some attention onwhat's going well in your life
is so important for yourmindset, because there's always
something negative, and ourbrains are wired to hyper focus
(39:21):
on the negative because ofevolution and, you know, the
survival imperative, but itdoesn't really serve us day to
day for our mental health. Soone thing I'm doing right now is
I do do that little five minutejournal where I write a few
things every morning that I'mgrateful for. I've been doing it
a long time. I write a couple ofaffirmations, like positive
(39:42):
statements about myself, like Ibelieve in myself and my
capabilities. You know, I knowwho I am. I have everything I
need inside myself, whatever.
It's tempting to dismiss thatas, like, you know, Pollyanna,
poofy positivity, but it's not.
It helps your brain. Oh, I'mgood, I'm okay. There's a lot
that's going well in my life. Ithink that downtime, sleep,
(40:07):
exercise, fresh air, like thosethings, we gotta carry those
through the holidays,
Laura Bowman (40:14):
watching what was the show called the ultimatum,
watching the ultimatum for hourson end. I don't think any of
that's bad in moderation. Ithink a little bit of just
letting yourself go and lettingyourself have a day and finding
some bite sized joy and lookingaround and going, you know, I
have a lot of the things thatare good about
Unknown (40:36):
Yeah. I mean, technically, you know, the word
of the year this year is brainrot, the Merriam Webster or
Oxford dictionary word of theyear, where you just kind of
consume bullshit online. You'renot really reading anything,
you're not really learninganything, and the brain just
kind of rots. I thinktechnically, watching six hours
(40:56):
of the ultimatum is probablyclassified as brain rot. But I
also think I'm not doing thatevery day. I'm doing a lot of
intellectually stimulatingthings, yeah, so giving myself
permission to be in my PJs,sitting in my bed, like I
brought my lunch into my bedroomand curled up and, like, ate it
in bed, you know, maybea little birdless. There needs
(41:18):
to be a ratio between, you know,like, I've seen a couple good
movies, I plan to see a couplemore good movies in the holiday
season. That's one of the funthings I'm trying to do, because
I need that. I need to seequality stuff. Yeah, and read.
I'm reading a couple morequality things. And then you can
have your little ratio, yourlittle like, dabble into brain
(41:41):
rock, yeah, yeah. Doesn't feeltoo bad. I
Colette Fehr (41:45):
like you. I like it. Thank you. Five to
Unknown (41:48):
one, five to one, yeah, I agree. I agree. And I'm
looking forward to the samething. So we can talk about this
more next week to, like, readingmovies. I want to talk more
about that. Let's talk and talktoday about a lot of like,
heavy, hard parts. Let's talkabout some fun, joyful things
next week. Let'sgo Joy chasing next week.
Colette Fehr (42:09):
Amazing. I love it. Let's do that. Let's talk
about joy
Unknown (42:12):
for the middle aged woman that doesn't involve
giving and doing and busying andpressure,
yes, since my magical vacationwhere someone else pays everyone
leaves me alone, and I get toroam and explore, isn't
happening anytime soon. Yes, allright, so I will see you soon.
(42:37):
We'll be back next week. Thankseveryone for listening. I hope
your holiday season is goingwell and as stress free as
possible. We'll see you nexttime on insights from the couch,
bye, bye. You.
Music. Hi guys.
Welcome back to insights fromthe couch for one of our special
holiday season. Mini sodesExcited to be here with you
again today, and we are freshoff our trip, our podcast field
trip to Delray Beach, Florida,where we got to be a part of our
friends at the back ninepodcasts annual celebration for
(00:24):
their one year anniversary,which was so fun, right? Have a
little podcast journey.
Laura Bowman (00:33):
It was so fun. It was just such a fun trip, such a
departure from daily life. Butso needed, yeah, I mean, the
walk on the beach. And first ofall, it was so fun to be there
and meet everyone, because we'vebeen guests on the back nine
podcast, and they have Josh andDennis, who host that podcast,
having guests on our podcast,and they're kind of catering to
(00:56):
men in middle life, and we'rekind of catering to women in
middle life, even though we bothhave listeners who are, you
know, the opposite sex as well,but to put faces in person to
names, and you know what, peopleyou've met online, and then also
to meet their partners was somuch fun. They're so nice,
(01:17):
really, really cool women. Andyeah, to be live, right? We know
we were doing that. I know no isit was so different. And it's,
it's cool to meet people thatyou've talked it's different
when you meet people in reallife,
just the energies of people canbe different. So I thought it
was so much fun. We laughed sohard on this trip. Okay,
Unknown (01:41):
that was the best part.
First of all, I have not shareda hotel room or a hotel bed with
anyone other than my husband ina long time. Well, I
feel so flattered.
I mean, we had our king bed. Itwas like so sleepover style. I
know you did not care for mysound machine.
(02:02):
I rolled with it, though, right?
I find that such the like,height of irony though, that you
want a sound machine when youhate, like extraneous noise,
yes,but it's that kind of soothing
background. It's a storm. It tome, it just makes my whole
nervous system at ease. Butthank you for rolling with it,
(02:23):
because a lot of people arelike, this thing sucks. Yeah,
so tired. I don't think I cared.
I know,I know, but the best was like,
as we get home and we're justand but we went to a beautiful
Italian dinner, right? So good,so perfect.
Laura Bowman (02:45):
Del Rey is just an absolute gem of a place. I mean,
you need to have about, youknow, three to 5 million to,
like, live in a townhouse there.
But it is so nice and it was theweather was. How perfect was the
weather? Oh, my God.
Colette Fehr (03:04):
Like humid, yeah, I know. And it
Unknown (03:07):
didn't even feel like the holidays, like I'm so
divorced from the holiday atthis point, like I Okay,
just I don't want to talk aboutthat, because I feel the same
way I feel so Steve is out oftown right now. Before he left,
he put up the tree, he took outthe ornament boxes. I usually
(03:27):
put them up, and he does, likethe very top, where I can't
reach the all the ornament boxesare out, and they have to be put
on because, like, the house isbeing cleaned tomorrow. I don't
even want to put ornaments on mytree,
Laura Bowman (03:44):
because my tree, I have two trees. I did one of
them. My second big family treethat's in the family room has
sat there with lights on, andthe ornament box is sitting
there for like, over a week.
Yeah, I can't get the energy todo it either. It's like the last
thing me too, and I don't, yeah,we are in our lives. Is that
just, I wonder if that'semblematic of other people at
(04:05):
this phase. I
Unknown (04:08):
know, like, are you guys who are listening? Are you
feeling this way too? I mean, Ido have friends who decorate out
the Yin Yang, and it's amazing.
And I know there are people whoreally enjoy that, and it's not
ba humbug. Like I don't feellike the Grinch. I just feel
exhausted. I feel like I have alot to do. It feels like one
more task that I must do. Andfor who? Who is it for? I don't
(04:34):
really give a fuck right now, ifthere's like, a tree with
ornaments, I'm not even gonna behere. I'm leaving for New York
on the 19th, you know, like, whymust I do this? Yeah,
and I have a house full of kids,but, like, nobody's invested in
it. Nobody's like, can we help?
No, I had, like, my one sonsaid, like, are we ever gonna
(04:54):
get like, the ornaments on thetree, which is like, code for,
like, when are you gonna do it?
Mom? Yeah. Exactly, andmy kids will be home in like, a
week. They'll barely be around,but they'll be like, Why haven't
you put up the tree? You know?
They'll be sort of horrifiedthat I'm neglecting my inborn
(05:16):
mother duties by like, notmaking the house look like
Christmas when they'll flythrough my house grabbing
something and be in and out. Youknow what? I mean? It's just but
that's exactly what it is. It'slike we have to continually hold
the space of mother, even longafter kids don't really want or
need it, but they want you tostill want to be in that space.
(05:41):
Okay? No, I think you're right,because I'm just picturing I'm
going home to New York just fora few days to see my brother and
his partner and daughter, andsay, We're all packing in. My
kids are coming with me. We'reall packing into my mom's house.
And my mom will not put up atree. You know, she hasn't moved
that well, so she's stoppeddoing that, which is totally
(06:04):
fine. She has, like, a littlemini tray, and I don't give a
shit. I'm not like asking her tohold the space of mother. I
mean, I know I'm 51What about when you were 21
would you have cared?
Colette Fehr (06:18):
Yes, I would have.
Okay, whatever you know. How'syour answer?
Unknown (06:23):
You kind of have to get to these places yourself before
you're willing to give your ownparents grace around this of
like, Oh, I get it. It's kind ofa drag. Don't waste your time.
Yeah, but let's talk about howthe holidays impact us. Because
I saw a study that said as muchas 90% of the population finds
(06:46):
the holidays more stressful thanjoyful, and that's a lot that
means almost everyone. I do findmyself and I don't normally feel
this way, but I find myselfwanting to put my finger on a
fast forward button, like an oldfashioned tape recorder machine.
And could it just be January 15?
Could it just be Martin LutherKing Day?
(07:09):
Why? Because you just want toget through all of the like,
awkwardness of, like, notworking and yeah, like,
what? Yeah. Why is it, you know?
Why is it that I because I don'tfeel that I have a lot well,
okay, I guess the pressures ofand all this stuff, it just
feels like you're expected. Lifesort of suspends. You have to
(07:30):
interact a lot with family, youhave to decorate, cook, eat,
drink. I mean, you don't haveto, but it just feels like this
mini season of like, forced joythat I'd rather just like reject
and focus on my life. Yeah,and I'm the same. I'm a real
creature of routine and habit,and then these extended trips
(07:53):
out of routine, especially whenthere isn't, like, if there was
a trip planned, maybe that wouldsound fun, but it's just these
like, endless days of like, whatdo we do now? And it's a lot of
shopping and it's a lot ofeating and a lot of drinking,
and it just doesn't feel verygood. Doesn't feel productive. I
don't love it either at thispoint. I i love joy, I love
(08:13):
family, but I like it in bitesize pieces. I like snack size
Joy bites, snack size joy. Ilove it like a Hershey Kiss not
falling in a vat at like theHershey, you know, factory in
Pennsylvania,like our dinner at Delray and
(08:34):
then laughing our asses off likefor an hour about all manner of
things. Bite sized joy that likeit tastes so good, it is so
good, you'll always remember it.
But enforced joy that like goeson for multiple weeks where it's
like, you will have fun, youwill enjoy yourself, you will
(08:56):
relax.
It can create the opposite,yeah, and I'm getting ready and
listen, I love my family. Ican't wait to see my brother. I
haven't seen him in like, overtwo years, and I miss him, you
know, and I barely get to seehis daughter. I haven't seen her
since just after she's born. Soall of that's wonderful, and of
(09:16):
course, being with my daughtersfor a few days. But there's also
the part of me we're gonna have.
I don't even know how manyadults, like eight or nine
adults, packed into a fourbedroom house, a little child,
their dog is coming. I will notbe able to be in my room that I
do very much. Still consider myroom. You've seen pictures of my
(09:36):
high school bedroom, Laura'sAshley bedroom, yes, my Laura,
Ashley bedroom that has not beenredecorated since like 1987 Yes,
and I love it like that roomfeels like home to me more than
anything. Yeah, I've beensleeping in that room since I'm
seven. So and I go up to NewYork a lot, as you know, so it
really does still feel like myhouse. So and then, you know,
(09:59):
from traveling with me, I need,like, my sounds. I like, need my
I mean, I think at this age,it's hard to be sleeping on an
air mattress. My daughters areso close, but they also fight
like, you know, female prisoninmates, literally, and it's a
lot of women with strongpersonalities, myself included,
(10:24):
there might be conflict. Oh,it's a given. And I'm probably
gonna be sleeping on like acouch or an air mattress in the
de facto living room with like adog running around jumping on
me. That isn't mine. I and thenI'm going to be shelling out
(10:44):
money because my childrenbreathe, and it's expensive,
especially in New York. Yes.
Laura Bowman (10:52):
Oh, the shopping I I've like, I've shed, like we
talked about this in the lastone, like so many of the holiday
rituals. But it's still, I knowit's still so much gift giving,
Unknown (11:06):
I know. I know so, okay, a friend of mine was
posting stuff about why it's soimportant to still give your
spouse a present, like not takeyour spouse off the list. We do
not do this. We're going on atrip in March, and I was like,
don't buy me anything. First ofall, I don't need some like
thing. I can't think of onething I want. If someone were
(11:29):
gonna give me a gift, what Ireally want is, like, make my
life feel more relaxing somehow.
That's all I want. Do you guysdo gifts? Do you think that's
important?
Laura Bowman (11:40):
Okay, so this is how it goes. This is every year
we always do for the kids. I dofor the kids. This year I
announced to them, becausethey're all older, I've got
2218, almost 17, so and they allneed money, right? Like, that's
just the way it is. And I killmyself doing gifts, like I when
I give my kids gifts, I like toreally think about what I want
(12:01):
to get them this year. I'm like,I'm not doing that. I said I'm
getting you, like, stockingstuffers, and you're getting
money, because you all needmoney, yeah, and that's what.
And then if you want to buyyourself something, or you want
to save it all, that's on you. Ialready announced that that's
what's happening. But here'swhat we do, and that's smart,
right? That feels good, yeah.
But between Joe and I and mymom, especially, my mom does
(12:24):
this thing every year. She goesmy my mom is a gifts person. She
loves her some gifts. And so shewill say, are we doing gifts
this year? And I'll say, I don'tneed gifts. And she's like, Oh,
thank God, I don't need giftseither. Then she shows up, and
she has Park Avenue, and she'slike, Oh, I got you like, I got
(12:44):
you something. I got you a fewthings. Like, I couldn't help
myself. And then, of course, shedefinitely wants me to get her a
few things, because Christmasmorning, she's going to feel
crest fallen. So then I have toscramble to get her a few
things. And it just goes on likethat, Joe and I, I don't think
we're okay if we don't getanything, but there's always,
(13:07):
like, usually, like, a lastminute something.
Unknown (13:13):
That's what Steve and I end up doing too. But then I
hate it, because I feel likethis is what starts to happen
every year. I'm like, I'msimplifying this. My kids are in
their 20s, Right? Steve, neitherSteve nor I are really, like,
Gifty people, like, I genuinelyam not upset, like, I don't need
a gift. Yeah, at all. It doesn'tmean anything to me. And I think
(13:34):
it's nice to have thisthoughtfulness concept. But I
can't think of one thing hecould get me that I would be,
like, he could, like, write me acard or something, or, you know,
making me a mix tape, which Iknow doesn't exceed, or, like, a
playlist, or writing mesomething, those are the only
(13:54):
things I really want at thispoint, or some kind of Travel.
So, you know, I just don'tThere's nothing I need. I got my
mom a pair of slippers shewanted, getting my dad a book.
My parents split a suitcase Iwanted for my Italy trip. Nice
that I asked for. So that'slovely. I just find the gift
(14:17):
thing, like every year with mygirls, I'm always like, you
really probably just want mine,because anything I pick for
them, they're not happy with,where, like, a bunch of like,
young women or teenagers, or,you know, they will, like, send
their mother, like, they'llregister, they'll send, like, a
list, like an Amazon list.
(14:37):
Oh, my God. I mean, okay, seenthat. No, but I would actually
love that if you tell me what toget you that you want, I'm happy
to do it like I'm happy I'mgonna get something for my
girls. I usually end up givingthem money. But then what ends
up happening is we're in NewYork, and then they see
something while we're out andabout, and they're like, Could
(14:58):
this be my Christmas. Gift. Soit just ends up like
proliferating. I don't know Thisalso sounds so like first world
problems. Play the fuckingviolin. You know, it just, it's
part of the grind. This is theway it goes. I think what I'm
realizing is that for me, thisyear has been a lot there. It's
(15:19):
been a lot of busyness, a lot ofoutput, working really, really
hard. And right now, I'm in alittle bit of a grind with all
of my projects where, like, notthat I'm not excited about the
big picture, but everything'sfeeling really hard and a little
bumpy. And I was saying to afriend the other day. I just
(15:41):
don't feel like there's anydopamine right now, nothing's
feeling super like, Oh, I didthis, and that feels great. And
so it just feels like it wouldjust be nice. Probably what it
is also is I haven't really beenon a vacation or taken a
vacation. I think I'm just alittle burned out. I think
(16:02):
that's really the truth, aswe're talking about this is
that what would feel good forthe holidays if you knew you
could, like, jet off somewhereand it was just gonna be like,
100% relaxation.
You know? What would feel good?
Because I'm not even like thatgreat at sitting around. What
would feel really good is if Icould go somewhere, if I knew on
(16:23):
like, December 22 I was gettingon a plane. I'm not sure who's
on the plane with me, to behonest. Am I by myself? Is it
just my husband? Is it myhusband and get like, how many
family members or friends, butwhatever the scenario is I get
on a plane, I'm gonna gosomewhere where I can relax and
(16:44):
explore. Yes, you know, so Idon't want to just be at like an
all inclusive Beach Resort. Iwant to be somewhere where I
could go wander around anddiscover things. I want not to
have to spend my own money likesomeone, fantasy person is
paying for this trip, andthere's no pressure, and there's
(17:06):
some kind of mind magic trickthat happens where I forget all
the stressful things that willbe facing me in January, and I'm
just like, at peace. I want themental load to be removed. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (17:22):
oh, that sounds amazing. And like, doesn't it
some novelty, like, when youtravel and you, like, discover
new places, and you find, like,a little bookstore, or you see
something that you've like, readabout, and it just, it inspires
you, like that, that process
Unknown (17:38):
Exactly. And we know our brains need novelty. There's
something that comes fromnewness that really
reinvigorates relationships, butrefreshes your soul, a new
atmosphere, a new environment,you get into a place of
curiosity, and you tend to getsome distance from your
(17:59):
stressors, not always, but a lotof times, and a little bit of a
different perspective,
Laura Bowman (18:06):
yeah, yeah. So
Unknown (18:09):
being that this magical solution isn't happening, what
are you one are you seeingclients like feeling stressed
about the holidays or
Laura Bowman (18:18):
Yeah? I mean, I think as we get closer, there
are more conversations aboutthat. But that's not, that's not
the bulk of the work I'm seeingright now. So neither let me,
I'll let you know in a week ifpeople are starting to feel
that. Yeah, I haven't seen that.
How about you? Are you seeing alot of people?
Unknown (18:39):
I think that people who are in here working on couples
therapy like Christmas is thelast fucking worry they have,
yeah, yeah, for the most part.
And you know what, me too, like,let me also give that
perspective that we're sittinghere talking about the holidays.
I just had breakfast with myfriend from Tulane Becca. She's
here for her son is this reallytalented golfer, and he got
(19:01):
invited into this golftournament, and I think he came
in ninth place. Yeah, he's only16. They live in Maine, yeah. So
it's a real treat that she cameup to Baldwin to meet me for
breakfast, and we really gotsome good quality one on one
time I last saw her when we wentto London together for a girls
(19:22):
trip for my friend Vanessa's50th birthday, about a year and
a half ago. So it was really, orI guess, a year ago, just over a
year ago. Anyway, it was reallyfun to do that. But as we're
sitting there outdoors havingbreakfast, and it's beautiful
here, it's kind of cool, Floridawise, but gorgeous, right? She
said something. I said, Oh, thisis what's funny about it. I
(19:46):
said, Oh, have you had snow yet?
Because she lives in Maine,she's like, Yeah, I'll show you
a picture. And then I was like,wow, you already have snow?
She's like, Yeah, it's December.
This is late for us. I'm like,Oh, my God, it's December. They
have snow. In October, right?
But what's crazy? Because,especially we live in Florida, I
am so, like you said, divorce. Ikeep forgetting, I don't know if
(20:09):
it's February, October, June,like the holidays are sort of
like a pain in the ass that Ijust want to get through. Yeah,
yeah.
Laura Bowman (20:20):
I'm in the same place. I mean, the whole, like,
Winter Park, Christmas paradehappened, the whole tree
lighting, yeah? And I hearmyself annoyed, yeah. Did you
go? Did you go to the Baldwin so
Unknown (20:31):
I didn't go. And then last night, a friend of mine, my
friend Jen, who also lives herein my neighborhood, was the big
Baldwin tree thing, which is sofun. And I yesterday. Okay,
maybe this is something that'shelpful. You tell me what you
think. I don't know. Yesterday Iwas gonna have a productive day.
I was gonna, like, take mymorning slow, and then I was
(20:52):
just gonna, like, ease intogetting some work done. Steve's
away. I'm by myself. I ended upI went for a long walk, which
was good, but I ended up layingaround, like, getting into,
like, yoga pants, pajama kind ofclothes. I watched the entire
half a season of the ultimatumon Netflix. Do you know about
(21:12):
it? No, Idon't watch a lot of stuff on
TV.
Oh my god. It's so was so good.
I got so engrossed. It's arelationship show, so I like the
dynamics. It's basically coupleswhere one has given the other an
ultimatum about getting married,and the other one is unsure for
a variety of reasons. So it'slike a reality show. Oh, it is a
reality show with Nick Lacheyand Nick and Vanessa Lachey as
(21:36):
the co host. They kind of annoyme. I feel like Vanessa is
always doing this, like fauxempathy, that feels so
insincere. But that part aside,they switch. They have a week to
date. There's like six couples.
They have a week to, like, go onmini dates with the partners
(21:56):
from the other couples. And thenthey pick someone else to have,
like a faux three week marriageto see if there's
what. I can't stand shows likethat. But have
Colette Fehr (22:11):
you ever watched a show like that? I've
Unknown (22:13):
watched like I can't sit through the bachelor. I
can't sit through the bachelor.
I I hate that shit. What is whatlike, why it makes me cringe. I
find it so like, I get like,such secondhand embarrassment. I
don't feel like the connectionsare deep or real. I think it's
all like, staged and stilted. Ifeel like, I feel like I can't
watch. I'm always like, Ah, thisdoesn't feel right. Okay? I
(22:36):
don't know. I mean, maybe that'san unpopular opinion. They're
obviously like, super, superpopular shows. I just, I can't
enjoy shows like that. Idon't know, so I think, I don't
think that's an unpopularopinion. I think some of the
reality TV I like, it would bevery easy to be like, What the
fuck is wrong with you Colette,that you want to watch that. But
(22:58):
I accept that some of it'sscripted, certainly, and even in
the like, I think bachelor andbachelorette are more fakey, and
I'm probably only watching thoseshows because I've been watching
them since the beginning. Sothere's just like a habit and
familiarity. But the ultimatum,what happens is, you are it's so
not healthy for people andexploitative, but you're taking
(23:19):
people and putting them into asituation that's really
psychologically hazardous fortheir attachment system. And you
can see people reallydecompensating, like, one guy is
the one giving the ultimatum.
He's 10 years older than hisgirlfriend. She's like,
(23:42):
stunningly beautiful, but youget the sense she's maybe just
not quite that into him. And shereally clicks with this other
guy who's like, a personaltrainer and super fit, and they
couple up. And the boyfriend,who's this artist, kind of
sensitive guy, couples up withthis girl he clicks with, but
he's really in love with hisfiance, and the girl he coupled
(24:06):
up with leaves so he's alone,and his girlfriend is across the
apartment thing, sleeping in thesame bed with this ripped dude
that she's Totally vibing with,and he is sobbing and melting
down. He breaks down and goesand bangs on the door of her
(24:26):
apartment, and she won't comeout. She blocks him. I mean, it
is, it's really, it's fucked up,but I find it interesting to see
the dynamics unfolding.
Laura Bowman (24:39):
My nervous system can't watch that. Like, even my
daughter's like, really in thelove Island.
Colette Fehr (24:44):
Oh, I love love Island.
Unknown (24:45):
Oh, my God, I hate it.
I hate it. Those poor people,like, when they get off the boat
and then, like, what is it thegirl does the the guy has to
pick a girl, right? Or does thegirl pick a guy? I can't
remember. Mix
Colette Fehr (24:59):
it up a little. It all. They mix it up
appreciating. There's
Unknown (25:02):
always like those four little there's always like
someone who's like, stuck off ontheir own, like, nobody wants
it's just, oh, I can't take it.
I know. And you know, we're alsowired, as human beings, of
course, to greatly fearrejection and abandonment. And
these shows basically exploitrejection and abandonment and
(25:22):
how you spiral in the face ofthat for entertainment. And
listen, I'm the asshole who'swatching. Okay, so I just, but
this is the only one. This iswhat I spent my day doing. I
watched the entire first half ofthe season. I did get a little
sunshine and walk. Then I readbooks, I listened to music, I
(25:44):
did nothing. I couldn't even putthe ornaments on the tree. That
Laura Bowman (25:50):
sounds absolutely perfect. That is what you need
when you feel burnt out, is youneed to just wander and follow
your own curiosity and desiresand do that. I have to do that
every once in a while too. Imean, mine doesn't involve to,
you know, love Island orwhatever, but it's the same.
Unknown (26:09):
You're so hot, bro, Laura and I'm so we're fine. So
in the gutterwith my puzzle and my HGTV and I
watch love it and list itsimulation as I can handle. No
interest
Colette Fehr (26:23):
in that.
Unknown (26:24):
See, I love it. I love it. Give a fuck. I could
live in a cardboard box. I justdon't care. You don't care.
Okay, yeah,me to the another thing we were
talking about when we werewalking in Delray. We were
talking about, you know, CherylStrayed in her book, tiny,
beautiful things, says that shehas this whole like passage
about the sister ship thatdidn't carry you, meaning like
(26:45):
the dreams you had that younever took the ghost ship that's
out there. And so we weretalking about careers that we
never did, but that we wishedwe'd done. And what are the
different things? Or even, whatdid we were also talking about,
like, the High, Low versions ofour dreams.
(27:08):
Like, if we weren't therapists,what would we be? And, like, I
wonder, you know what you guyslistening, you know, if there's
if you're not what you were,what would you have become?
Yeah, so what was yours? It'sso interesting because it all
like, sort of orients around,like the arts, and I said, I
said, work at Sotheby's, or I'dwork at a museum, like the
(27:29):
Smithsonian or the Met, and I'dbe in charge of something really
super random, like 17th century,like fine furniture, and then
I'd be like, this insufferableexpert, and I'd probably go
antiquing through, like, theNortheast, and I'd be like, Do
you know what this is? This is aChippendale data. And I don't
(27:51):
know why, but I've always been,like, obsessed with antiquity
and and, like, just homes andcultivate like things, and I
never did those things. I don'tknow why. I think it was because
I thought that was like, I thinkthere was a part of me that
judged it as sort of superficialand frivolous, and I felt like I
(28:12):
needed to do like something moreserious. Yeah. I mean, I know
that's part of what it was Ihave kind of like an artist and
a scientist in me, that sort ofbattle for dominance. Yeah,
Colette Fehr (28:26):
I relate to that.
Unknown (28:28):
But so when I was saying that, like, if, if none
of that worked out, I would justgo be like a character actor and
like Williamsburg working at theapothecary, racks me
up, right? That's like the lowthe low level version. So, yeah,
this is the path not taken, andI could so see it for you,
knowing you and the way yourinterests align. But it's really
(28:51):
interesting to think about, whatcould your alternative path have
been, where, like, you feltfulfilled and you felt alive in
your job, and for me, it wouldreally be having a role on TV
like in my ideal I would be atalk show host, because I could
still tap into my curiosity, myinsatiable curiosity, be about
(29:12):
people, and be connecting withpeople, or I was joking with you
a little that, you know, I lovecrime, I love dark I love
psychological darkness. I knowit's a meme to make fun of
middle aged women who are intothe murder shows, but I'm one of
them. I am that cliche. I cannotget enough Dateline, 48 hours,
(29:34):
True Crime documentary. I loveit only when they're well done,
but when you have a case thatshows a psychologically complex
character who's done some kindof really interesting murder and
maybe gotten away with it, orthe motive isn't clear. My brain
is experiences the mostengagement and joy like
(29:56):
possible. So I so funny. Yeah,yeah. I mean, I'm not alone, but
what I think would have been agreat alternate job for me, if I
were not a therapist, would bespecifically to have Andrea
Cannings job on Dateline. She'sthis, like, blonde, I feel like
her face never moves. I don'tknow. I just, I almost don't
(30:18):
know why, yeah, yeah, hopefullyshe's not listening to the
podcast. I just kind of She mustknow someone like, why does she
have the job? I don't feel likeshe does a good job. I feel like
I could do a better job. And Ifeel like I would literally show
up to work every day like you. Iwill pay you to let me do this
job. Yeah? Now my low levelversion, if I, if I couldn't be
(30:44):
at like, the peak, would be thatI work in an independent
bookstore, and I do a lot ofengaging with people, and I put
on a lot of events, and I spendmy day talking to people and
perusing and enjoying andcelebrating books. I love that
too, right? So before we wrapup, let's talk about what we're
(31:07):
reading. Tell me what likeyou're What are you reading
right now? And anyrecommendations you have for
everyone?
Well, the i right now, I haven'tread a ton. I i have read a lot
of stuff for work, so it's kindof boring, but the three books
that I've engaged with recentlyas I read Malcolm Gladwell is
the revenge of the tippingpoint, which I love. If you like
(31:30):
Malcolm Gladwell, if you likethat sort of social sciencey non
fiction,
Colette Fehr (31:34):
I heard it was like, the same thing repackaged.
Unknown (31:38):
It's not okay. I always get something out of his, his
take. I mean, he definitelyspins the narrative the way he
wants to spin it. But I get aton of,
what did you get out of thebook? Like, give a distillation,
like it's talking about whathappens, like the deleterious
(31:59):
side of the tipping point, there the first tipping point was,
like, how products tip, or ideastip in this book, he's really
talking about how things kind oftip in the opposite direction,
like, how Miami became, youknow, the crime capital the
world. Or, like, how, you know,like, Florida is, like, this
Medicaid toilet, bowl, yeah.
Like how we create stories andhow places shape the way you do
(32:24):
things, or how few people reallydrove the opioid, you know,
crisis, into the ground. And heshows you how easy it is for
dynamic to tip in a negative anddelete
gotcha. Gotcha. There's a sweetspot, and then it can crest over
(32:45):
the edge into something.
It doesn't even take much forsomething to go in a really bad
direction.
We're there. I mean, look atthis whole murder of the United
Healthcare CEO, and the waypeople are celebrating it and
mass right? This guy disappears,has the balls to shoot him, and
(33:07):
then New York streets in frontof all these other people, and
then takes off. Can't be found,leaves this backpack filled with
Monopoly money, bullets likewhat I mean, this was so well
planned, right when you'reetching, you know, words on the
Colette Fehr (33:25):
bullet, onto the bullets, denied, delay.
Unknown (33:29):
And, yeah, delay, I can't remember what
Colette Fehr (33:31):
they were. Yeah, me neither, but they were bad.
Unknown (33:34):
But clearly someone who's been so injured and
wronged by this system, orbecause I'm kind of obsessed
with this case, this is exactlythe sort of thing I love, not
because, first of all, there's areal reason there's so much
foment and anger toward theseexecutives. Yeah, you know,
these these companies aredenying people coverage and
(33:55):
medications and then gettingrich off of it. Now, I think
there's another side to thestory, which is that government
regulation is probably a lotmore to blame, in some ways,
than even these companies. Butregardless of the issue, it's
also Is this guy a disgruntledperson whose loved one died
because of a united healthcaredecline in coverage, or is this
(34:18):
an elaborate ruse to make thatlook like the motive? I know I
thought about that too, andmaybe, like, someone closer
inside job or something. Yeah,so inside job in the industry,
you know, he's separated fromhis wife. I mean, is he really?
Yeah, obviously I'm not tryingto, like, go on air and
(34:41):
speculate that his wife's amurderer, but you just don't
know. No, you never know. Andit's so on the nose, right? It's
so on the nose everything. Andlest I go down a total, total
rabbit hole, which I guess Ialready am, on this case, how
did he. Know where thisexecutive, Brian Thompson, I
(35:01):
think, is his name, was therefor, like, a united conference,
but he wasn't staying, he wasstaying across the street. Like,
how did he know all that? Howdid he know when this guy would
be walking? How did he knowwhere he was staying? It's just,
what do you feel like? It's thewife's lover or something like
(35:23):
it wouldn't knock you off yourchair, is what you're saying.
I mean, I think it's like veryhard to understand how this
random dude was able to get thisinformation as a lone wolf, and
it seems like a very organized,experienced planning Yeah, he
was in New York for like 10days, yeah,
(35:45):
yeah, staying at this hostel,wearing his mask. I mean, it's
just fascinating. And it isfascinating from a sociological
perspective, how people haveresponded. Like, you can really
feel the energy of like theFrench Revolution, where people
are so fed up with the uber richand how disenfranchised
(36:08):
everybody else feels andimpoverished, and people have,
like, had it. I mean,yeah, you can't pull on a system
the way, you know, people even,like I said when we were in Del
Rey, you couldn't get a shithole.
Colette Fehr (36:24):
Remember when I found my little place?
Unknown (36:26):
Yeah, I thought, Oh, this one will be affordable. It
was like, what? How many squarefeet? Was it Colette? 500 square
feet? Or how muchit was? The cutest little house
that's filled with tinyapartments. Okay, it's nothing
bougie. You'd have to be willingto live in something old. It
wasn't right on the beach, butit just was, like, charming in a
way. I like Tahiti Cove inDelray Beach. Yeah. I was like,
(36:50):
Oh my gosh. I could see having,like, a little condo here and
just being able to, like, comechill and like, write. And I
looked up, there was a place forrent. It was $7,500 a month for
a five I mean, of course, thiswon't be like surprising to
anyone living in like LA or NewYork, but it's South Florida's
gotten so expensive, and whenyou look at the pictures on
(37:14):
Zillow, the place was so uglyinside. I mean, it wasn't
remotely updated. The furniturewas disgusting.
550 square feet, like, you can'teven, like, turn around and they
wanted 7500 a month.
Colette Fehr (37:30):
Yeah, which, yeah, who's,
Unknown (37:34):
I mean, okay. I mean, I guess some people have that
money because they're there, butRight, I think that we are
really at this inflection pointas a society, a tipping point, a
real tipping point of just it isnot cool anymore for all of
these billionaires to do theirthing at the expense of normal,
(37:54):
especiallydenying a child medication, a
child with cancer. I mean, fuckoff. Oh my gosh, so it does. I
think that's one more thing,like before we get off, just the
way everything feels really intoI feel like society is crackling
with intensity. I feel likepeople are angry. The election
(38:17):
was not good. It was nothealthy. Regardless of how you
feel about the outcome, theprocess of politics, the
estrangement and families overpolitics, people are ending
friendships. They don't want totalk with people on the other
side. You know, there's so muchunrest in the world. It just
feels like there's a lot ofanger bubbling, not even
(38:39):
beneath, but like right at thesurface, I feel
it too. Yes, we're at aninflection point somehow, and
we'll have to see where it goes.
But it doesn't feel good,no? But on the bright side,
let's end on a bright note.
What's the bright side? TheBright Side is we're alive and
(39:00):
breathing. It's another day, andthere's much to be grateful for,
and this that that is the truestmental health thing ever, that
focusing some attention onwhat's going well in your life
is so important for yourmindset, because there's always
something negative, and ourbrains are wired to hyper focus
(39:21):
on the negative because ofevolution and, you know, the
survival imperative, but itdoesn't really serve us day to
day for our mental health. Soone thing I'm doing right now is
I do do that little five minutejournal where I write a few
things every morning that I'mgrateful for. I've been doing it
a long time. I write a couple ofaffirmations, like positive
(39:42):
statements about myself, like Ibelieve in myself and my
capabilities. You know, I knowwho I am. I have everything I
need inside myself, whatever.
It's tempting to dismiss thatas, like, you know, Pollyanna,
poofy positivity, but it's not.
It helps your brain. Oh, I'mgood, I'm okay. There's a lot
that's going well in my life. Ithink that downtime, sleep,
(40:07):
exercise, fresh air, like thosethings, we gotta carry those
through the holidays,
Laura Bowman (40:14):
watching what was the show called the ultimatum,
watching the ultimatum for hourson end. I don't think any of
that's bad in moderation. Ithink a little bit of just
letting yourself go and lettingyourself have a day and finding
some bite sized joy and lookingaround and going, you know, I
have a lot of the things thatare good about
Unknown (40:36):
Yeah. I mean, technically, you know, the word
of the year this year is brainrot, the Merriam Webster or
Oxford dictionary word of theyear, where you just kind of
consume bullshit online. You'renot really reading anything,
you're not really learninganything, and the brain just
kind of rots. I thinktechnically, watching six hours
(40:56):
of the ultimatum is probablyclassified as brain rot. But I
also think I'm not doing thatevery day. I'm doing a lot of
intellectually stimulatingthings, yeah, so giving myself
permission to be in my PJs,sitting in my bed, like I
brought my lunch into my bedroomand curled up and, like, ate it
in bed, you know, maybea little birdless. There needs
(41:18):
to be a ratio between, you know,like, I've seen a couple good
movies, I plan to see a couplemore good movies in the holiday
season. That's one of the funthings I'm trying to do, because
I need that. I need to seequality stuff. Yeah, and read.
I'm reading a couple morequality things. And then you can
have your little ratio, yourlittle like, dabble into brain
(41:41):
rock, yeah, yeah. Doesn't feeltoo bad. I
Colette Fehr (41:45):
like you. I like it. Thank you. Five to
Unknown (41:48):
one, five to one, yeah, I agree. I agree. And I'm
looking forward to the samething. So we can talk about this
more next week to, like, readingmovies. I want to talk more
about that. Let's talk and talktoday about a lot of like,
heavy, hard parts. Let's talkabout some fun, joyful things
next week. Let'sgo Joy chasing next week.
Colette Fehr (42:09):
Amazing. I love it. Let's do that. Let's talk
about joy
Unknown (42:12):
for the middle aged woman that doesn't involve
giving and doing and busying andpressure,
yes, since my magical vacationwhere someone else pays everyone
leaves me alone, and I get toroam and explore, isn't
happening anytime soon. Yes, allright, so I will see you soon.
(42:37):
We'll be back next week. Thankseveryone for listening. I hope
your holiday season is goingwell and as stress free as
possible. We'll see you nexttime on insights from the couch,
bye, bye. You.
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.