January 8, 2025 • 57 mins
Welcome to season three of Insights From The Couch! We are kicking off 2025 with an inspiring discussion about creating real, meaningful change as we step into the New Year. Should you set resolutions or focus on intentions? Is there a "right" way to build habits? In this episode, we unpack the science of habit formation, the power of identity-based goals, and what it means to take radical responsibility for your life. You'll hear practical advice, motivational stories, and strategies to keep you inspired long after January ends.
Join us as we explore how tiny, incremental changes can lead to monumental shifts in your life and why embracing both discipline and self-compassion is key to achieving your goals. Whether you're looking to tackle fitness, finances, or personal growth, this episode will leave you ready to take action—one small step at a time.
Episode Highlights:
[0:03] - Introducing season three and the concept of meaningful New Year’s change.
[2:34] - Exploring SMART goals vs. wildly improbable goals and why you need both vision and incremental action.
[6:24] - The science of habit formation: Atomic Habits, tiny habits, and why small changes matter.
[10:53] - Radical responsibility: owning your life and choices, and why this is the foundation for change.
[16:17] - Reading “The Risks of Autonomy” and reflecting on its powerful message of personal accountability.
[23:11] - Personal stories of significant life changes, from quitting smoking to overcoming financial struggles.
[36:22] - The importance of discipline and consistency in creating lasting habits.
[43:19] - Starting small: how a 2-minute habit can transform your life.
[52:40] - Doubling down on your strengths and why change isn’t just about fixing weaknesses.
Resources:
For more on this topic visit our website insightsfromthecouch.org If you have questions please email us at info@insightsfromthecouch.org we would love to hear from you!
If today's discussion resonated with you or sparked curiosity, please rate, follow, and share "Insights from the Couch" with others. Your support helps us reach more people and continue providing valuable insights. Here’s to finding our purposes and living a life full of meaning and joy. Stay tuned for more!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colette Fehr (00:03):
Happy New Year everyone, and welcome back to
season three of insights fromthe couch. I'm Colette fair here
with my co host Laura Bowman.
Both of us are licensedtherapists, bringing you the
conversations we have in personto the podcast, and today, we've
got an action packed episodewith lots of good nuggets of
wisdom on creating change forthe new year. Should you make
(00:26):
resolutions? Everybody wonders,should you make intentions? How
do you create truly meaningfulchange? We're going to talk
about the science of habits,identity based change, taking
radical responsibility for yourlife, what kinds of change work
and don't work so that it's notFebruary 1 and you're saying,
(00:49):
what happened to thoseresolutions? So we have a lot of
information for you today. Let'sget started. I'm so excited to
talk about this today. I reallyam, first of all, I'm
contemplating making my ownchanges for the new year. And
it's such a big topic, what's ahealthy way to make change the
new year, if any? Should youmake resolutions? Should you
(01:12):
make intentions? Should youbuild habits? Should you have
goals? Should you do nothing?
Laura Bowman (01:19):
Yeah. Should you give up skydiving?
Colette Fehr (01:23):
Yes, easy, right?
Laura Bowman (01:26):
Yeah. Like, nothing, no. But I love change.
I love I mean, I was always thatkid, like in the new school year
with like, new notebooks, likethat feeling of like, I'm gonna
get it right this time.
Colette Fehr (01:38):
Yes, yeah, yes.
And that's what I actually likeabout the new year, is that it
gives you a fresh start.
Laura Bowman (01:46):
Yeah,
Colette Fehr (01:47):
you know, at least the feeling of a fresh start.
But we know most people havegiven up their changes, their
resolutions, if you will, by themiddle of January, if not the
beginning of February. And oneof the biggest mistakes people
make is trying to bite off morethan you can chew, do too much
at once. So today, we reallywant to dive into really making
(02:09):
good change what works, whatdoesn't work, and how you can
whatever you're grappling without there that you want to
change. It really is aboutliving the life you want to
live.
Laura Bowman (02:22):
Yeah, yeah. And I just gave a whole speech about
change at Toastmasters in earlyDecember. So just really
thinking on this.
Colette Fehr (02:32):
So sure, some nuggets, yeah,
Laura Bowman (02:34):
like, some of the things I realize are so
paradoxical, like, like, theidea you we hear about, like,
SMART goals, like everythingshould be, you know, measurable,
specific, measurable,measurable, attainable,
realistic and time bound, right?
And that that's kind of boring,like that, that that really the
wig, the whole idea of, like, awildly improbable goal, which
(02:57):
is, like has energy and you'rereally turned on by a goal, is
something that really can pullyou forward, but that you need
both, right? You need the bigvision and the incremental
behaviors behind it. But peopleeither trend one way or another,
where it's so like boring anddull, and they're not really
(03:20):
excited by it, or it's so wildlyimprobable that they never get
started. And like how you needboth somehow,
Colette Fehr (03:31):
yeah. And I like, you know, I think you've read it
too, right? Atomic habits, JamesLear,
Laura Bowman (03:37):
yeah.
Colette Fehr (03:38):
And then I also read the BJ Fogg book, tiny
habits. I think it was called, Ididn't like that one as much,
but actually, a friend of mine,we were just talking about this,
and she had just read the bookand said the one thing that
stood out to her was that theyBJ, Fogg talks about waking up,
and the first thing you do asyou put your feet on the ground
(04:00):
is saying, Today is going to bea great day. And I read that
book maybe four years ago, threeyears ago, something like that,
time is a very muddledproposition at this point, but I
do that, and I kind of made thata little habit. And it sounds
small and it is, but it's reallygot a profound effect, because
(04:21):
you're setting an intention atthe beginning of your day that
it's going to be good. You'rechanneling your energy. I think
of it like a gratitude, right?
You're helping your brainremember that this is what it's
going to be. And I think what Ilove about atomic habits that I
thought was more successful thanthe other book, The
storytelling, but also just theway he really makes it so simple
(04:42):
that we have, there's, there's ascience to have it formation,
and you can have goals which areabout your results, or, I think
he calls them outcomes, right?
And then you can, yeah, outcomedriven things like, I want to
Number of pounds, I want to geta new job. I want to, you know,
lose at.
(05:03):
whatever, be in better shape. Iwant to get a relationship this
year. But that really and thenyou can have identity based
goals, where it's like, this isthe person I want to be. And I
think we should talk about thata little more, yes. And then
also you can have process drivengoals. Because really, the whole
thesis of the book is thathowever you go about it, it's
(05:26):
small, incremental changesconsistently, that change the
direction of your life. And I'llnever forget, he uses the
analogy, think of an airplane.
You know, I'm not very good withthese physics kind of things.
But even that was such apowerful metaphor for me that if
a pilot changed, they wereflying from New York to LA and
(05:48):
they changed the direction ofthe plane by one degree or
something, you'd end up in acompletely different in the
middle of the ocean. So if wecan find ways to break down,
change and not say, Okay, it'sJanuary, and I've got to become
a different person, get anotherjob, lose 20 pounds, work out
every day, right? But it's Whodo I want to be? And then what
(06:11):
tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, littlehabits can I make? Can I form
and focus on the processes thatsupport you.
Laura Bowman (06:24):
Yeah, I got the same out of that book, like the
processes and the systems andhow some of the most powerful
imagery that I got out of thatbook was when he's talking about
ice melting and that thetemperature has to decrease, you
know one degree at a time, andyou don't see these changes.
(06:44):
These are imperceptible. This isyou putting in the reps, like
doing the workouts, or makingthe green drinks, or going not
doing alcohol, or whatever thelittle imperceptible behaviors
are. And the temperature comesdown, until all of a sudden the
ice melts. And he has the sameimagery with the bamboo. Yeah, I
was just gonna say the bamboo isgrowing for years underground
(07:07):
building infrastructure, untilone day it like shoots into the
air, right?
Colette Fehr (07:12):
And you don't see anything that's happening. And I
yeah, I think this is a partwhere people can get really
stuck. I think we can all getstuck. I think he calls it like
the Valley of disappointment.
There the valley of despair.
Laura Bowman (07:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, waiting for your change to like,
show you some sort of reward,
Colette Fehr (07:31):
but it's a delayed right process, right? It's a
delayed process. And I thinkthat's the part people don't
see. You know, I've recentlymade a lot of changes to my
life, what I'm doingprofessionally, what I'm
dreaming as possible to doprofessionally, this being part
of it. And it started, it looksto people like, oh my gosh,
(07:54):
you're doing all this stuffovernight. But I started laying
a foundation for these things,you know, like going on TV,
podcasting, doing publicspeaking, a long time ago, when
no one saw anything happening,and even I, at times,
questioned, is this goinganywhere?
Laura Bowman (08:14):
Yes, and that you have to be okay with a season,
maybe a couple seasons of thattype of and putting in the reps
I'm seeing where this is going.
I'm not sure where it's going.
I'm staying curious, I'm stayingopen, I'm staying committed
Colette Fehr (08:31):
and flexible enough to alter the smaller,
little goals. So let's talkabout that along the way. Let's
talk about the identity piece.
Because I think for ourlisteners, whatever it is you
decide to do with the freshstart this year, and if you
decide to do nothing, that'sokay too. I mean, I do think
this becomes yet another socialpressure and like, fuck that,
(08:52):
right? If this is a year whereyou just want to breathe and
live, that's a great goal, yeah,more joy, just more presence,
more Yeah, time, right? Butevery time we have the end of a
season, the end of a year, Ieven think a lot about it in
September, back to those newnotebooks for the school year.
(09:12):
That's such a habit in my bodyof like Fall is a fresh start,
just an opportunity to thinkmore about life is short, and
how do I want to live it? Do Iwant to wake up every day and
get out of bed and feel excitedto be alive? That's what I want.
And so when I think about what Iwant to change and and right
now, I am thinking about that alot, even as I have a lot on my
(09:36):
plate, I think about okay, whenI envision myself taking
responsibility for my own life,knowing I'm the only person who
is going to take care of me,ultimately, right? I'm going to
live the life I create. How do Isee myself? And then, okay, what
(09:56):
do I need to do? What do.
Read, do I need to shift thecourse of the airplane almost
imperceptibly? That helps me getfrom here to there?
Laura Bowman (10:09):
Can we just stop for a minute? Because I love so
much what you just said, youknow, I just told you before we
started. I love the posts youhave about that your life really
began to change when you realizethat no one was coming to save
you. Yes, that it was gonnaYeah, oh, it was gonna be you
that changed your life, and youwere responsible for you. And,
(10:29):
you know, having seen a lot ofpeople, and being this person
myself at times, and having thebelief that something outside of
me was gonna fix things for me,that's a change unto itself. If
that's the one thing you tacklethis year that you realize, like
your life is yourresponsibility,
(10:51):
that's its own, its own thing.
Colette Fehr (10:53):
It's a huge thing.
And I didn't always see it thatway. I mean, sadly, there were
times that I had romanticfantasies that I bought into
that I believe, like the fairytale of as as awful as it
sounds, I would never have saidit this way. Yeah, yeah. You
know, like, like, Oh, someone'sgonna ride up on a white horse
and kiss me while I'm in a comaand bring me back to life. But I
(11:16):
think initially, after mydivorce, I sort of thought that
like, Oh, I'll be in a betterrelationship, and everything
will work out. And that wasreally abdicating all of my
responsibility and not onlythat, but my power,
yep, yep. So it is a huge shift,and it is critically important,
(11:39):
but let's talk a little bitabout what that looks like,
because we see this in therapy,right? And I see it as when
you're not taking responsibilityfor your life, it's a mindset
where you're steeped inresentment, victimology,
victimology, resentment,jealousy about other people,
(12:01):
right? Oh, it's not fair. Theyhave this and this, and they
didn't work that hard. You know,I work so hard,
Laura Bowman (12:09):
screwed in this scenario. It wasn't right. Yeah,
yeah. And, you know what I justwant to say, like, if you're in
that place, that's information,it's just, and I think you have
to grieve, and you have to,like, listen to your own
resentments, but God, don't,don't stay there. Like, that's
not a place to stay, it's aplace to visit, hopefully, to
(12:32):
pass through. And it's like, ifyou can pass through, it,
things can get better.
Colette Fehr (12:38):
Yeah, this is not to say that if something awful
has happened, that you don'thave a right to feel angry,
hurt, disappointed, rage at theuniverse. I mean, these feelings
are normal, but there's adifference between a victim
mindset and getting stuck inresentment, and I don't think
resentment is really ever ahealthy place to me, to me,
(13:01):
resentment means that there'ssomething, some place you're
letting go of your power becauseit's sort of a hybrid of like
anger and hurt and injustice andagain, doesn't mean you don't
have a right to be angry, orthat a wrong has not been
perpetrated, but you're choosingto stew in your own disempowered
(13:23):
juices instead of say, Okay,this fucked up thing happened,
it's not okay. That personwronged me, or that person like
hurt me. Now, what am I gonna doabout it? How am I gonna take
back my power, rebuild my life?
Focus on me, because whateveranyone else out there is doing
has absolutely, really, at theend of the day, no bearing on
(13:44):
your happiness.
Laura Bowman (13:47):
Yeah, yeah. As soon as you can I completely
agree with everything you justsaid, and that is the quickest
you can get to the question of,What are my choices? What are
the choices I have? Now, youknow, even though this fucked up
thing happened or this wasn'tfair, of this is not supposed to
be my life. What choices do Ihave now? And the people who can
(14:08):
get past that place are focusedon what their choices are,
Colette Fehr (14:12):
yes, and what do I want to do? And again, it
doesn't mean something awfulhasn't happened that doesn't
take time to work through I'mnot minimizing that, nor am I
saying I've never been stuck inthese places myself. Oh, I have,
yeah, I think we all have, butI've learned from them. And now,
when something happens to mewhere I feel wronged by someone,
(14:35):
or hurt or disappointed, I stillfeel the feelings, but I really
don't shift into the like, Oh,you did this to me. I stay in
the like, okay, so what doesthis mean for me? What
boundaries do I need to set?
What role did I play and whatwent wrong, if any. How can I
learn from it? How can I grow?
You know, what does this tell meabout who I want in my life,
(14:57):
what kind of relationships Iwant? It's just a.
Different shift. So what we'resaying here is all change starts
with owning responsibility foryour life. Yeah, yeah, start
here. Have you ever read thatpoem? I think I read it to you
years ago. It's not even a poem.
It's like an ode toresponsibility.
Laura Bowman (15:18):
No, I'm curious now
Colette Fehr (15:19):
that I found. Oh, my God. If I can find it, I'm
gonna read it. I think I have itokay. I found it in a drawer at
when I worked in residentialtreatment, you know, years ago
for aspire, and it was sopowerful. Let me just see if I
have it really fast.
Laura Bowman (15:39):
I think we all need to hear that
Colette Fehr (15:41):
it's so it's almost shocking how, like hard
core it goes.
But it's here it is. I havesaved almost nothing, and I
this. I mean, I must have gottenthis 20 years ago, okay,
(16:01):
it's called the risk ofautonomy.
Laura Bowman (16:04):
Oh, I have this sheet. I got this sheet years
ago, I think from somebody,maybe, yeah, probably, maybe
that's where I got it. Let'sgive Sally credit, yeah, okay.
Colette Fehr (16:14):
Should I read it?
Laura Bowman (16:15):
Please? It's so powerful.
Colette Fehr (16:17):
Okay, the risks of autonomy. Who's responsible for
you, accepting responsibilitygives with giving up the hope
that someone else will care foryou and protect you. We are
largely alone in this world, andalways have been.
There is no other road to takein life but to accept
responsibility. If you do notaccept responsibility for your
(16:39):
life, for every bit of your lifeyou place yourself in jeopardy.
You've been you for a long timenow, and you've had the ability
to say no and to act on yourbeliefs. As soon as you were
aware something was wrong, youhad some responsibility for
changing it. Other people do nothave an accurate view of your
inner world, your plans orpotential others can never
(17:02):
really act for you, but only forwhat they think you need. In
other words, for them, when youaccept responsibility, you are
saying, This is my risk. I am injeopardy, and I will assume it.
To accept responsibility meansthat you're going to do what has
to be done, or you're not goingto do what has to be done, and
that whatever happens, good orbad, it's to your credit or to
(17:24):
your fault.
Okay, here's the mantra part,you are responsible for what you
say. You are responsible forwhat you are. You are
responsible for what you feel.
You are responsible for what youdo. You are not responsible for
making anyone else happy. Youare not responsible for becoming
what someone else wants you tobe. You are not responsible for
distorting the truth to keepfrom hurting another person's
(17:48):
feelings. Amen. You areresponsible when someone breaks
a secret you told them becauseyou were a poor judge of
character. Ouch. You areresponsible when people use what
you say to hurt you, because youshould be able to tell when a
person does not wish you well,and you are responsible for
defending yourself. You areresponsible for the ties other
(18:08):
people have with you, because ittakes two to tango. You are
responsible for everything inyour life that wouldn't be there
unless you did something. If youdon't like your lifestyle, you
are responsible if you don'tlike your job, you are
responsible if you don't likeyour home, you are responsible
if you don't like your husbandor wife, you are responsible. If
(18:28):
you don't like you You areresponsible if you don't like
the way you are treated, you areresponsible. You are responsible
for everything in your life, allthe successes and failures,
accept your success with modestyand gratitude that your plans
have worked out. Accept yourfailures as realities from which
you must learn without takingresponsibility for your life,
(18:52):
you will never be happy, becauseno one can fix your life but
you. And this is by Dr Davidviscot from a book called
risking.
Laura Bowman (19:03):
Yeah, I've tried to get that book, I haven't been
able to find it. Oh, I thinkit's out of print, but oh my
god, I feel like I feel veryshook by that,
Colette Fehr (19:13):
me too,
Laura Bowman (19:13):
but I think I'm so glad we're talking about this
while we're talking aboutchange, because this is the this
is the nascent place of change,yeah.
Why people get stuck?
Colette Fehr (19:28):
Yeah, oh, yeah.
You have to be willing to saywhatever is happening in my
life, I am responsible, and if Iwant to change it, starts with
me and ends with me.
Laura Bowman (19:42):
Yeah, and I've had phases, god of it. I've had to
go around a circle, and like somany iterations of trying to get
other people to do things, youknow, so that I would feel
better. Or when are you going tofix this so I can relax? I.
Had to go around that May till afew times before I finally
(20:04):
gotten here.
Colette Fehr (20:06):
Oh, me too. And for years, even in my current
marriage, I did this, and now Idon't do it anymore, but I used
to, oh, if I do it this way,then you'll get it and you'll
change. Oh, if I say it thatthat way. Oh, maybe if I do
this, but surely I can explain,and I used to like tap dance
around, in part because that wasthe role I played as a child.
(20:28):
You know, feeling empowered andadultified in ways to manage, to
try to manage adults during myparents divorce. I think that's
where I learned that behavior,not that it worked, but it was
some way to try to exert controlover what I felt powerless about
in my environment. But we growup and we're still doing these
(20:48):
things become habits ofbehavior, and that is right up
there with taking responsibilityis letting go of the
responsibility of managing otherpeople are who they are. Yeah,
let them do what they're gonnado, and then you have choices to
make based on what they do.
Laura Bowman (21:09):
And this right here is like so often why women
come to therapy, right? They'reso frustrated by my partner
behaviors that won't change mychildren, yeah, things that just
feel so unyielding, and theywant, yeah, they want control,
and it's, it's accepting andallowing. And you see people
banging their head against thiswall for years, okay, well, I'm
(21:32):
glad we, we started withresponsibility,
Colette Fehr (21:34):
me too, and I have little goosebumps, and I have
had that thing for 20 years.
I've read it a million times.
Yeah, it never fails to producea charge in my body, yeah, like,
a feeling of, wow. And even now,as I read it again, and there's
been so much growth on takingresponsibility and letting go of
(21:55):
what isn't mine, there's still alot more work to do, and it's an
important thing to remindourselves of, what stay in your
lane, drive your car in yourlane. Yes, everybody else it
might be, you know, like I 95 inMiami, out there, but you do
you,
Laura Bowman (22:16):
and allow their people to do them. Yes, this is
like the Mel Robbins, let themtheory, right? Yeah. Have you
seen that?
Colette Fehr (22:25):
I I've, yes, I've, it's not, yeah, oh yeah, I've
seen it. Her new book. I'm not,like a huge fan, so
Laura Bowman (22:33):
I'm not either, but I think it's that idea of
let people do what they're goingto do. Behavior is a language,
and then it's up to you torespond. You know how you're
gonna live your life. I lovebehavior as a language. Behavior
is a language. It communicates,doesn't it? Right? Because words
are meaningless if they're notaccompanied by consistent,
(22:53):
congruent behavior, yeah. Okay,so let's shift into like nuts
and like other strategies forchange. What has been like an
area in your life where you'rethe proudest of changes you've
made,where you made the best change.
Colette Fehr (23:11):
I feel like I've made so many changes I have, and
I'm constantly making changes. Ifeel like I reinvent myself over
and over, and this is sort ofthe way I live my life. I really
like change, but I would sayjust to out myself a little, or
at the risk of outing myself alittle, one of the biggest and
(23:33):
hardest of my life has beenquitting smoking.
Laura Bowman (23:36):
Yeah,
Colette Fehr (23:37):
I mean, I was like a crack addict with cigarettes,
and I started smoking at a veryyoung age, very young, like 12
years old. We could buycigarettes in the vending
machine at the train station.
You know, I grew up in a suburbof New York, so we took the
train all the time, back andforth to different towns where
my friends lived. I was alwaysat the train station, and I was
(24:00):
always smoking cigarettes at thetrain station. And all my
friends did it too, but most ofthem didn't get hooked on it to
the degree I did. You know howyou can have a genetic
predisposition for certainaddictions, cigarettes? It's
like my greatest true love.
(24:21):
Yeah, I've heard other peoplesay that same thing, Oh, my God.
And it really was more of abehavioral addiction. I never
had any nicotine withdrawal, andI know that's not the case for
everyone, but there wassomething about a moment where I
get to just think and processand like, smoke my sick, yeah,
(24:41):
yeah, that I couldn't everimagine my life without.
And I tried everything.
Eventually I it was giving mesome health consequences, like I
still don't really know exactlywhat, but once I discovered that
I really had to.
Make a decision to get that outof my life. And at that point,
(25:04):
I'd been smoking on and offsince I was 12 years old, and I
didn't quit.
Laura Bowman (25:09):
When you finally quit,
Colette Fehr (25:10):
40,
Laura Bowman (25:11):
really?
Colette Fehr (25:13):
Yeah,
Laura Bowman (25:13):
God, well, you made it look easy, because when
you quit, I felt like you justmade a decision. But was it like
fear and pain that kind of like,yeah, and this is that choice
well, wow, yeah, wow, yeah.
Colette Fehr (25:24):
and this is one of the things about making change,
So the motivationwas fear, wanting to be in good
is that you do have to have somemotivation. And my motivation
was, you know, I didn't. I quitwhen I graduated from college. I
didn't ever see myself beinglike an adult smoker. I thought
it wasn't part of my identitythat I wanted to be a smoker.
Like, if I saw an adult smoking,I was like, ew. But then I
(25:45):
smoked. So when I do it, yes, itmade no sense, but I did quit
after college, and then I didn'tsmoke for years, until after I
had Charlotte, my firstdaughter, then it became just
the like, Oh, I'm just gonnahave a cigarette, like, the few
times I get out of the housewith like, a glass of wine.
Because, you know, your wholelife changes when you become a
(26:08):
mom, it became a mini rebellion.
But because I have so manyneural pathways for that,
eventually I started smokingmore and more, and then when I
got divorced, that's when I gotback into it. So I had about
eight or nine years of like,chain smoking,
(26:30):
health, and I realized I had arationalizing story of, like,
Okay, well, I'm gonna quitbefore I get lung cancer before
I do damage. Like, I'm justYoung and I'm smoking because
I'm going through a crisis,right? As soon as my crisis
ends, well, I mean, is thecrisis going to last my whole
life? Like, all of a sudden I'm40 years old, I'm not young,
(26:52):
right? I mean, I'm I'm a smokingadult. I had to confront the
fact that the identity Irejected was who I was and that
that's not what I wanted.
Laura Bowman (27:05):
Yeah, I love that.
Oh,yeah. I mean, I think pain is
one of these things that reallybrings you to your knees. I
think that's the thing aboveeverything that will help you
change the quickest You can wantto something, but fear,
consequence and pain are barnone.
Colette Fehr (27:27):
Okay, so this is why so often, and I get why
people are frustrated, but it'sreally true. I believe what
you're saying. I agree with whatyou're saying 1,000% when people
come to couples therapy,something I'll often hear is now
I'm about to walk out the doorlike I'm done. I basically told
him I want a divorce, and it'smore often the wife saying this,
(27:48):
and a heterosexual couple,and now he's ready to come to
therapy and make change, andhe's doing all these things
like, what the fuck it's toolittle too late. Why didn't you
do this eight years ago, when Itried to come to you with my
legitimate complaints, and youdidn't do shit. And it's
because, unfortunately,sometimes people cannot get
their head out of their assuntil they suffer. They taste
(28:12):
loss, they feel afraid
Laura Bowman (28:16):
100%
Colette Fehr (28:17):
and I guess the cautionary tale on this is if
you have a partner, whetheryou're a man or a woman who's
saying, Hey, I'm not happy, or Ifeel lonely, or we need to do
something. Listen, listen,before the pain comes. Because
sometimes people don't payattention until it's too late.
Laura Bowman (28:38):
I would argue most people don't pay attention until
it's too late. I think, I mean,it's in all, a lot of meaningful
change for me has come frompain. Watching my dad die at 61
and the health choices that hemade, and the confronting
reality of the genetics in myfamily, I think, has pushed me
(29:00):
to be much more conscious of myhealth than I otherwise would
have been,
Colette Fehr (29:05):
because you really changed the way you exercise,
the way you eat. Can you talkabout that a little?
Laura Bowman (29:11):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, my dad was, we just have a
pattern in our family of, like,emotional eating. They're just,
they're big drinkers, they'rebig eaters. They're just like,
my dad's whole family was likethe like Mad Men from the 1950s
cigarettes and like, martinis.
And,you know, my dad was a an eater.
He was a closet smoker. He was acloset drinker, which is so
(29:34):
weird, because he would go outand he would have a martini and
a non alcoholic beer and looklike the most moderate person.
But when he would go home to hishouse, it was a whole other
story. And he like binge ate. Hewas he soothed himself with
food. And unfortunately, I am myfather's daughter. I am my
(29:56):
father's daughter.
In so many ways. And I, I'm nota drinker or a smoker, but I am,
like, I'm prone to emotionaleating, and I'm, I'm just
watched him kill himself,essentially, till he got,
he got large B cell lymphoma,which killed him in like, 21
(30:19):
days. And my grandfather beforehim died. It's like, I think, 67
from lymphoma. So, like, thisis, you know, like you have to
look at your genetics and whoyou favor and take a hard look
at, like, Where am I headed if Idon't change these generational
patterns? So, you know, I becamea runner. I became, and that was
(30:43):
an incredible like awakening forme to my own power and my own
choices. And I loved becoming arunner, but it was initially
motivated out of God, I got totake care of myself, or this is
where I'm headed, and I'm stillconfronting that, you know, on
like eating whole foods. I knowwe probably are all on that. You
(31:04):
know that trajectory of like,some days you do better with
that than others, but I knowthat I have to take my health
seriously, yeah, and other painpoints. I mean, things with
money. I had a family wherepeople rescued other people with
I was rescued constantly withmoney. I had a client say to me,
say to me, I don't know anybodyanything. He said, I have paid
(31:28):
my college. Nobody's ever boughtme a car. Nobody's ever taken
care of me a day in my life. Andhe's like, I own my life. That's
what he was communicating to me.
And I'm sitting there thinking,oh, so I've had the opposite
experience, and it fostered thebelief that, like the help was
always coming from outside.
Colette Fehr (31:51):
Oh, my God. Oh my god, yes, yes, yes. That is
another huge change that you andI have both made. I was rescued
with money my whole life, too. Ireally did think it grew on
trees and that somehow it wouldalways be there. I was never
preoccupied with it. I justassumed, because it was always
going to be there, right? Itwould just materialize when I
(32:13):
need it. And I've never caredabout money or things very much.
But I didn't even realize howdistorted my beliefs were, and
it was a messy path. I mean,when I went to graduate school
to become a therapist, my fatherwas willing to pay for graduate
school, and I was trying to makethis change, and I was like, No,
I'm going to do it myself, andI'm going to take student loans
(32:36):
out, like everybody else. But Ididn't know what. I didn't know
my my financial and fiscalbehaviors and understanding were
so immature that I got myselfscrewed into like, $100,000
of student loans, and I just itwas a mess, and I paid them off,
but it was a nightmare. Yeah,and, you know, I was trying to
(32:58):
take responsibility and get outof all of that, but it was a
really bumpy road, and at manytimes, going back to
victimology, I was like, Ishould have let my dad pay the
hell who wouldn't pass like, whydid this happen to me? Well, it
happened to me because I didn'tknow what I was doing, right? I
(33:18):
didn't educate myself adequatelyon the loans. It's easy to blame
them on other people. I mean,it's not a really great
industry, but I think that ifyou're going to make changes in
your identity and how you dothings, changes that are
lasting, it is important to notethat there's going to be a lot
(33:38):
of messing up, a lot ofmessiness and painful growth
along the way. These changesdon't come easily.
Laura Bowman (33:46):
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's like you had to get
into that big bind, because Iwas, like, working next to you,
and you were getting out of it.
And I think it's like you'reborn in those moments. You know,
your identity is born in solvingsome of these problems. Like,
that's why I always say, like,kind of bless the mess. If
you're in a pain point right nowwhere you're like, I don't know
how this ends, you know, this iswhere you are being. This is
(34:10):
your crucible, where you arebecoming who you're meant to
become. Next Yeah, I know youwouldn't choose it, but it, it
is, forges the next level, itforges,
Colette Fehr (34:22):
yeah, because you saw you're right, you were there
beside me. There was a period ofmaybe two years. I didn't buy
anything, I didn't go anywhere.
I spent 1000s of dollars a monthon my student loans. I made the
choice to show out of it, right?
I had the temptation of, like,maybe it'll just go away. Maybe
some presidents will, like,eradicate it, or whatever. And
(34:46):
then I thought, You know what? Igotta just, I gotta take
responsibility and just do it.
And I listen. I'm not sayingeverybody's in a position to do
it. I'm not trying to sayeveryone is has the same
variables that I did.
Right? But what I am trying tosay is that it did not come
without suffering, and it didnot come without discipline. And
(35:07):
I do think this is somethingincreasingly society doesn't
like to talk about, but is alsovery important, whatever changes
you're going to make, there is adegree discipline is actually
healthy. It's the way we parentourselves. It doesn't have to
come with a rod and corporalpunishment, right? Figuratively
(35:28):
speaking, emotionally, we don'thave to beat ourselves up. We
can be encouraging selfcompassionate and self loving,
but we do have to hold ourselvesaccountable and build a muscle
for discipline.
Laura Bowman (35:40):
I completely agree. You know, becoming a
consistent human is whatbecoming an adult is, yes, and
I, I love, I love that stuff nowit's, it's kind of where I find
the most pride when I waslooking back on the years. You
know, sometimes you think I'mgoing to make a change and it's
going to happen really quickly.
But like you said, it's like,one degree at a time, and I feel
(36:02):
like I have layers of sedimentnow where it's like, Okay, I did
that for a year, yeah, and nowI'm doing this for a year. Like,
I mean, I, I was so happy tosee, like, my streak, my like,
I'm, you know, I do weightlifting. I've done it like 202
20 classes now I go
Colette Fehr (36:22):
amazing. Laura,
Laura Bowman (36:24):
yeah, and I'm getting stronger, and I know
this year I can get a layerstronger. I can take it to the
next level from here. And I feellike that's the way my life has
gone, in general, with mybusiness, with where I push
myself, it's like I go here, andthen I go a level up, but this
is just, you're just taking thenext step of consistency and
(36:46):
discipline. Yep, exactly. It'snot sexy,
Colette Fehr (36:50):
no. And that is actually my thing right now, for
this year, I have so much goingon professionally, I don't feel
like I need any more goalsthere. I really want to get back
in shape. It's interesting forme. I'm someone who has popped
in and out of being in goodshape, and I can, you know how
they say there's no true scienceto how many days it takes to set
(37:14):
a habit.
It's just never quite becomeslike a permanent habit for me.
And I mean, I've gone a decadewhere I didn't miss more than a
workout a week, where I wasexercising every day and feeling
good about it always brings aton of dopamine, which is the
reward loop of habits, right?
That something feels good, itmakes you want to do it more.
(37:36):
Somehow, it never quite takesoff for me with exercise,
there's still that, like,teenage part in me that wants
to, like, lay around, eat junkfood and binge watch TV and read
books like that is, like, mydefault, a very strong part in
identity. Yeah, that like, ifthat part gets the chance to do
(37:57):
that, that thing will come backwhere I just and I'm not a lazy
person at all. It's not that.
It's just like, I guess the wayI learned to self soothe at a
young age that still feels thestrongest. So getting up and
getting right into my workoutclothes, because early morning
(38:18):
is really just the only way Ican consistently work out,
yeah, you know, I want to getback into that. So as we segue a
little into like, let's givesome of the bullet points about
making these small changes. Thatis the one degree toward the
life you want to live, whateverthat may be, you know, I can use
(38:40):
as an example for me. I'm tryingto, I was going to do 10 minutes
a day, you know. But even that,I feel like and set a certain
time a day, even that isprobably too big. And this is
where I think a lot of people gowrong, because they don't have
the patience to say, if I sliceit really thin, right? Then it
(39:02):
feels like it's not good enough,
Laura Bowman (39:04):
it's not big enough, it's not gonna help,
Colette Fehr (39:06):
yeah, but the way to do it, and I've done this
before, and it worked. I didthis during COVID. I lost now
I'm on zepbound diet shots, asyou know, and I'm losing weight
slowly. But back during COVID, iand it's not as easy, even on
the damn shots, like I'm notthis person who's disappearing
(39:27):
in three months like otherpeople, like, I'm still hungry.
It's fucking crazy, but it'sdefinitely helping. But during
COVID, I lost like 2530 poundson my own, yeah, and I built a
regular habit of working out.
And I started really, reallysmall. So I think where I need
(39:47):
to go is I've got to get myselfin the clothes. I've got to get
I'm in the habit right now oflaying in bed. I wake up early,
but I lay in bed and I playeight.
Eight New York Times wordpuzzles. A lot of people do
that. Yeah, and I love it. It'slike, my favorite little time of
the day. So I've either got to,like, add this new I want to get
(40:11):
in the clothes and I just wantto get on my stupid fucking
peloton that is sitting therelike an obnoxious piece of
furniture in my living roomunused.
Laura Bowman (40:21):
Well, that's a big BJ Fogg strategy, right? That
you take an existing habit andyou link a new one to it, yeah?
Colette Fehr (40:28):
And James clear says that too, right? Yeah. BJ
Fogg talks about, every time hepeed he did two set of two push
ups, yeah, that's, yeah, I getthat. So I'm trying to figure
out, you know how I can just getmyself into the clothes and get
on the peloton? Truly, if I werewilling to spend a month where I
(40:50):
just got dressed and got on andwalked for two minutes,
Laura Bowman (40:54):
you would do it.
You would start.
Colette Fehr (40:55):
Yeah, that's probably what I need to do.
Because, guess what, in sixmonths, I'll be back to running
two or three miles. Instead,what I did is I signed up for a
5k which I can't run, and I,like, bought all those weight
things at your place, which I'llgo once, and I'll be, like, in
the hospital. It's too big. It'stoo big. You got to start right
(41:17):
there, right work your way up.
And the steps are, I was justlooking at this. There has to be
a cue, right? A craving, aresponse and a reward. This is
how you build habits, and ahabit is essentially just
something that's automated. Yourbrain no longer has to divert
mental energy and resources tomaking it happen. You just do it
right? I wake up and I grab mylittle Spelling Bee, and I'm
(41:40):
ecstatic when I see the littleletters. And can I figure it out
without the hints?
I want to be that ecstatic aboutgetting on my peloton.
Laura Bowman (41:55):
Yeah, and it may take months, but this is, you
know, I've talked aboutElizabeth Benton before on this.
But if anybody's like curious, Ilove her principles. She has
this whole thing on consistency.
She has the principles ofconsistency. So if you're
curious, look up ElizabethBenton, which one of her
principles of consistency is,because I struggled with this.
Yeah. Is that where you start isnot where you stay? And this is
(42:18):
exactly what you're talkingabout. Yeah, is that you start
by just putting your workoutoutfit on and like, standing on
the treadmill, but you know, twomonths later you're going to be
walking two miles or running amile or whatever,
Colette Fehr (42:35):
right? Because the point is that actually some days
you might get on because myhardest part is getting in the
clothes. Yeah, it's like, cold.
I mean, Florida cold, you know,not, not 89 degrees. And I'm
like, Oh, I'd rather be under myduvet cover doing my little word
puzzles. But once I'm in theclose many days, I'm gonna get
(42:57):
on the treadmill, and maybe Iwill feel like doing it, but
then there are those days thatI'm not going to feel like doing
it. And this is the point ofhaving it small, is that if it's
super small, and I know I onlyhave to get on and walk for two
minutes, right? And then I'mdone, then on those days, I've
still met my goal.
Laura Bowman (43:19):
I love that. Yeah, so that's where you're starting.
That's your big that's yourbeginning of building the bamboo
infrastructure.
Colette Fehr (43:28):
Yes. And Laura, as I say this, there is the part of
me I can feel her chomping atthe bit right now, going shut
the up. Colette, that is thedumbest thing ever. That's not
good enough. It's notsatisfying. You're gonna put all
this energy and you're onlygonna do two minutes like you
gotta go, go, go. You're losingmuscle tone. You don't have time
(43:49):
for this to take months, right?
Laura Bowman (43:51):
I can feel that part, but that actually, that
part will slow you down. Andbelieve system that slows us
down. And this is never goodenough, right? It's never big
enough change, impactful enoughchange.
Colette Fehr (44:04):
And this is where self compassion comes in, where
I can talk to that part and say,I hear you that you're worried
that I'm not going to make thesechanges, that I'm not going to
get back in shape, that I'mgoing to lose all my muscle
tone, because these diet shotsmake you lose muscle even more.
And we know at this stage oflife, muscle and everything. I
mean, I was never that muscular.
I am like, the most deliciousjelly donut right now. Like, it
(44:29):
is really bad. Yeah, so, butthat part's just worried that if
it doesn't push me to say, Okay,tomorrow before work, I'm gonna
get on the treadmill and I'mgonna run for 45 minutes, 40
minutes. 40 minutes, yeah, yeah,like that will feel like a
workout. But you know what? ThenI won't do it again, because I
won't be able to walk for fourdays, right?
Laura Bowman (44:52):
Right? So where you start is not where you stay,
right? And trust the process onchange, right? And making a.
Small change. So the idea of acue is what is going to be the
impetus for the thing, like,pair it with something else,
right? Make it more attractiveto do it. Like coffee is like,
(45:14):
for me, my cue, like, I can getout of bed for coffee, and if
I'm out of bed, I'm likely to dosome sort of physical movement.
Colette Fehr (45:25):
Okay, you know, another friend of mine was just
saying the same thing about theQB and coffee. Maybe I should
try that. Yeah, I probably, if Ihad to quit coffee, I think some
of my behaviors would slip.
Well, I'm definitely notquitting coffee, but I was
thinking maybe even so the cue,I thought about doing my one
little Wordle, but then what ifI did because the idea of making
(45:48):
it attractive, you know, a lotof people will talk about with
habits watch your favorite TVshow on the treadmill or the
bike, yeah. So you're pairing anactivity you love with an
activity that's less desirable.
You know, I can't really rundoing my word puzzles. But what
if, as I first got on, what if Idid my little spelling bee?
(46:09):
Yeah, as I was warming up,
Laura Bowman (46:12):
I love that. I would pair it. I would pair that
whole
Colette Fehr (46:15):
I'm gonna try that. I'm gonna try that. And
then the other thing that Ithink I'm just using this as a
metaphor, but is making it easy.
So what worked for me duringCOVID was that I got my workout
clothes out. They were rightthere. I didn't have to do that
extra step right? I sit and Iput them right by the bed, like,
(46:36):
there they are.
Laura Bowman (46:40):
Yeah, no, that's a great idea. Those are, those are
perfect for that habit. Uh, oneof the things that I know that
I'm ready to do, and I just sortof confronted this recently, is
that there's been a few areas ofmy life that I really want to
take to the next level. And Iwas like, I think I need help.
(47:01):
Like, I think I need to, like,hire somebody for what, like, I
think I want a business coach.
Like, I think I need that like,and I, you know, I have this,
I'm very independent, or I'm,I'm a, I'm somebody who I think
is pretty hard to help. I do alot of, like, internal
processing, yeah, you know thatabout me? And so I don't, I'm
always kind of keeping my own, Idon't know my own thoughts in
(47:26):
and and they're all inside. AndI think I need to externalize
some of these things, becausethe consciousness that creates
problems is not theconsciousness that's going to
solve a problem. So I'm like, Ithink I want help here. I've
also thought about like, there'sthis money group, like investing
group for women, and I'm like, Ithink I might want to get
(47:47):
involved in so I think I needhelp. I think I need the
inspiration of other people topush me forward, because my mind
doesn't know the next stepthere, right?
Colette Fehr (48:00):
Okay, so that's another good investment group. I
want to do that too. I know,right? I need to be educated.
Yes, I need it more. There'sjust I need help in certain
areas. And I think we all needhelp in certain areas. I agree.
I think I need help in some ofthe areas, you need help too. I
think what's hard thoughsometimes, is finding the right
(48:21):
person, finding the right fit,yeah, but that's okay. It's not
an overnight thing, you know.
But I love that, right? Like, ifyou're stuck, get help. Get
help, right with whatever it is,
Laura Bowman (48:36):
yeah, you know, quitting drinking. Like,
sometimes people need peopleneed help. There. There There
are some things you can keepyour own counsel around, and you
can create momentum on your own.
And in that case, it's like,maybe you don't broadcast your
intentions. Like those peoplethat are like, I'm gonna get in
such like, color shape, like,this is the year, right? It's
like, Shut up, you know, justkeep it to yourself for a while,
(48:56):
right?
Colette Fehr (48:58):
Yeah, I never keep anything to myself, as you know,
but I agree, stop.
Laura Bowman (49:05):
Don't broadcast it, because when you
broadcast it, sometimes it takesall the energy out of it. When
you have, like, a littlepersonal goal, sometimes it's
like you're working, you'regardening at night. It's kind of
like exciting. It's on the day.
I love you.
Colette Fehr (49:18):
I hear you. I think I'm a little bit opposite
on this one, and maybe it speaksto our extroversion,
introversion, internal versusexternal processing. For me,
yes, I run the risk of, like, Isay a goal, and then people are
like, she didn't do it. At thispoint in my life, I don't give a
fuck. At least I'm somebodywho's stepping up to the plate
and taking chances, and so if,like, the world sees that I
(49:42):
didn't make a goal happen, like,so be it. So be it. Everybody
else can stay home and sucktheir thumb while I'm not taking
risks so I don't feelembarrassed. But what it does
for me when I tell people is itmakes it more real. I mean, I'm
No, love it. I love it. Thatdoesn't that doesn't hold me
just saying I'm not.
(50:03):
back anymore. I think it used toat some point, look, oh, if I
say I want to have a TV show,then if I don't get a TV show,
then everyone's gonna see that.
Who cares? Great. At least Iwent for it, right? I don't know
what's gonna happen, but to me,when I say I want to have a TV
show. I want to be a therapiston TV when I put that out into
(50:24):
the world, and I don't want itfor fame, I want it for the joy
of it like it's something thatexcites me, it's a new
challenge. It's something thatmakes me want to jump up out of
bed and wake up every day.
That's why I want it. I want tofeel alive. And so the more I
say it, and the more I tellpeople to me, the more energy it
(50:45):
gets, the more real it feels,the more my intentions of like
this is what I'm doing, and it'shappening feel real.
Laura Bowman (50:52):
I mean, I totally get that. And then the other
perspective, just for me, isthat I feel like I need to
create self trust aroundbehaviors. So if I want to do
something that is new to me orit's not in line with my default
mechanisms, and I know that I,you know, my system is always
pulling me off the road, I wantto prove to myself with
(51:15):
behavior, yeah, quietly, thatI've got what it takes to do the
thing, yeah, where I'm saying itinto the world, but that makes
sense too, yeah, that makessense too. But at the same time,
I think there are areas whereyou have to like, be like, I'm
raising my hand. I'm doing help.
I need help. I need somebody tolike. I need somebody else's
thoughts or some accountabilityaround something, process with
(51:38):
somebody and get into action?
Yes, yeah. So you just have toknow what those things are. For
you.
Another thing that us talking, Iknow we're like, running long
here, is that you always, we'realways thinking about that, you
know, the negative way we thinkis that we always have to
remediate our weaknesses, right?
Like, just even you with, like,the getting in shape, like, it's
(52:01):
something that's hard for you,but it's like, you want to, you
want to deal with it. I thinkchange should be about
remediating some weaknesses, butlike, double downing on your
strengths. I think that's like,I mean, your example of that,
like, with the speaking stuffand the acting stuff and the
television stuff that's yougoing, I know what I'm good at,
(52:23):
and I'm like, putting, I'msliding my money towards black,
right? Yeah, yeah. And and that,I think most of our energy
should go to things that we'reexceptional at, and some of our
energy should go towardsremediating the things
Colette Fehr (52:40):
I agree I am not trying to become like a fitness
guru, yeah, right, right, yeah.
I just want, really, mymotivation is to just feel and
be healthy. You know? I want tobe healthy. I want to take care
of myself, because I care aboutmyself, but that is not my
thing. It's never gonna be mything. So for me, it's more a
(53:01):
matter of, you know, as I'mthinking about the changes I've
scanned back. And this can behelpful for people too, to times
in my life where my fitnessroutine was serving me, not what
other people think it should be.
I'm not gonna spend hours in thegym, and I don't want to. I'm
not interested in that, and andall the power to you, if you
(53:24):
are, it's just not for me. Buttimes when my routine worked
well was when I woke up, Iswallowed the frog. I did about
a 20 minute workout. I ran outof trouble. I do really like to
run. I'm not willing to gooutside in the dark by myself
for a host of reasons, but thatwas when I really enjoyed
(53:48):
working out. It I felt great.
You know, I love the endorphinsit gives you. So something like
that's probably the bigtrajectory for me, is I want to
get in like you and I havetalked about a couple of weight
workouts a week, yeah, which Ididn't used to do. And then I
want to wake up most morningsand do a short burst of cardio,
whether it's walking fastjogging. You know that that's
(54:10):
it. That's like the that's thefinal road Yeah, so, but I
agree, your strengths are yourstrengths for a reason. They're
gonna bring you the most joy.
Laura Bowman (54:24):
If you're gonna pull you forward the quickest,
like you're you're never gonnabe like whatever. I mean, I'm
terrible at, like, math. I'mnever gonna be an abstract
mathematician, and spending anytime there is pretty much a
waste of my energy. So it'slike, figure out the things that
you as your special sauce, andput energy towards that this
(54:45):
year. So if you looking at thethings you want to change, and
they're all things that are notareas of strength for you, pick
at least one area where you'redoubling down on your essential
stuff, right?
Colette Fehr (54:55):
And just 1% what have you shifted? Just 1% Yeah.
You know what? If you just reada book about something you're
interested in, what rate likestart really small. So for these
goals we're talking about, pairit up with some kind of cue
that's going to lead to a newbehavior. Make it attractive.
(55:18):
Make it easy. You need some kindof reward built in. You know,
maybe the queue is coffee, butmaybe after the workout, it's
another coffee, or it's a go, apastry, or whatever. The hell
who cares? Just something thatfeels like a reward. And then I
think one final thing you and Italk about all the time, but
(55:39):
it's so important for this, whenwe're making identity based
changes and creating changeabout living the life you want
to live. Visualize.
Visualization is a proven tool.
It works. You know that book TheSecret a million years ago,
whether you think that's a bunchof bullshit or the most profound
book you ever read, the ifthere's anything to it, it's
(56:03):
that what your mind focuses on,what you see for yourself, it
fills your heart, it expands inyour body, and you will
naturally start to take actionaccording to what you're
envisioning. So think about if Iwere so excited to get out of
(56:23):
bed every day in six months,what would be happening in my
life that would make that cometrue?
Laura Bowman (56:30):
Yeah, that's an excellent question, right? Yeah,
by my life, what would behappening? Yes, and then,
Colette Fehr (56:39):
and then backtrack from there, take some
teeniest nugget, yeah, yeah, andyou'll get there.
Laura Bowman (56:46):
So goals are big and small. They're public and
private, their strengths andweaknesses, yeah, like they're,
you know, there's paradox,there's nuance to how you do
change. But I think we hit ittoday, and you got at the heart
of it, it's you taking radicalresponsibility for your life,
for your one precious life,
Colette Fehr (57:06):
exactly. Mary Oliver, what will you do with
your one wild and precious life?
Exactly? All right. Well, onthat note, let's wrap up. Thank
you all for listening, and ifyou liked what you heard today
on insights from the couch, andwe hope you did. Please share
with your friends, and don'tforget to write us a five star
review. Those reviews help usspread the word to other women
(57:29):
out there like you. We're sograteful to you all and excited
to be back for season three.
Lots more good episodes to comeevery Wednesday, take care,
guys, bye. You.
Happy New Year everyone, and welcome back to
season three of insights fromthe couch. I'm Colette fair here
with my co host Laura Bowman.
Both of us are licensedtherapists, bringing you the
conversations we have in personto the podcast, and today, we've
got an action packed episodewith lots of good nuggets of
wisdom on creating change forthe new year. Should you make
(00:26):
resolutions? Everybody wonders,should you make intentions? How
do you create truly meaningfulchange? We're going to talk
about the science of habits,identity based change, taking
radical responsibility for yourlife, what kinds of change work
and don't work so that it's notFebruary 1 and you're saying,
(00:49):
what happened to thoseresolutions? So we have a lot of
information for you today. Let'sget started. I'm so excited to
talk about this today. I reallyam, first of all, I'm
contemplating making my ownchanges for the new year. And
it's such a big topic, what's ahealthy way to make change the
new year, if any? Should youmake resolutions? Should you
(01:12):
make intentions? Should youbuild habits? Should you have
goals? Should you do nothing?
Laura Bowman (01:19):
Yeah. Should you give up skydiving?
Colette Fehr (01:23):
Yes, easy, right?
Laura Bowman (01:26):
Yeah. Like, nothing, no. But I love change.
I love I mean, I was always thatkid, like in the new school year
with like, new notebooks, likethat feeling of like, I'm gonna
get it right this time.
Colette Fehr (01:38):
Yes, yeah, yes.
And that's what I actually likeabout the new year, is that it
gives you a fresh start.
Laura Bowman (01:46):
Yeah,
Colette Fehr (01:47):
you know, at least the feeling of a fresh start.
But we know most people havegiven up their changes, their
resolutions, if you will, by themiddle of January, if not the
beginning of February. And oneof the biggest mistakes people
make is trying to bite off morethan you can chew, do too much
at once. So today, we reallywant to dive into really making
(02:09):
good change what works, whatdoesn't work, and how you can
whatever you're grappling without there that you want to
change. It really is aboutliving the life you want to
live.
Laura Bowman (02:22):
Yeah, yeah. And I just gave a whole speech about
change at Toastmasters in earlyDecember. So just really
thinking on this.
Colette Fehr (02:32):
So sure, some nuggets, yeah,
Laura Bowman (02:34):
like, some of the things I realize are so
paradoxical, like, like, theidea you we hear about, like,
SMART goals, like everythingshould be, you know, measurable,
specific, measurable,measurable, attainable,
realistic and time bound, right?
And that that's kind of boring,like that, that that really the
wig, the whole idea of, like, awildly improbable goal, which
(02:57):
is, like has energy and you'rereally turned on by a goal, is
something that really can pullyou forward, but that you need
both, right? You need the bigvision and the incremental
behaviors behind it. But peopleeither trend one way or another,
where it's so like boring anddull, and they're not really
(03:20):
excited by it, or it's so wildlyimprobable that they never get
started. And like how you needboth somehow,
Colette Fehr (03:31):
yeah. And I like, you know, I think you've read it
too, right? Atomic habits, JamesLear,
Laura Bowman (03:37):
yeah.
Colette Fehr (03:38):
And then I also read the BJ Fogg book, tiny
habits. I think it was called, Ididn't like that one as much,
but actually, a friend of mine,we were just talking about this,
and she had just read the bookand said the one thing that
stood out to her was that theyBJ, Fogg talks about waking up,
and the first thing you do asyou put your feet on the ground
(04:00):
is saying, Today is going to bea great day. And I read that
book maybe four years ago, threeyears ago, something like that,
time is a very muddledproposition at this point, but I
do that, and I kind of made thata little habit. And it sounds
small and it is, but it's reallygot a profound effect, because
(04:21):
you're setting an intention atthe beginning of your day that
it's going to be good. You'rechanneling your energy. I think
of it like a gratitude, right?
You're helping your brainremember that this is what it's
going to be. And I think what Ilove about atomic habits that I
thought was more successful thanthe other book, The
storytelling, but also just theway he really makes it so simple
(04:42):
that we have, there's, there's ascience to have it formation,
and you can have goals which areabout your results, or, I think
he calls them outcomes, right?
And then you can, yeah, outcomedriven things like, I want to
Number of pounds, I want to geta new job. I want to, you know,
lose at.
(05:03):
whatever, be in better shape. Iwant to get a relationship this
year. But that really and thenyou can have identity based
goals, where it's like, this isthe person I want to be. And I
think we should talk about thata little more, yes. And then
also you can have process drivengoals. Because really, the whole
thesis of the book is thathowever you go about it, it's
(05:26):
small, incremental changesconsistently, that change the
direction of your life. And I'llnever forget, he uses the
analogy, think of an airplane.
You know, I'm not very good withthese physics kind of things.
But even that was such apowerful metaphor for me that if
a pilot changed, they wereflying from New York to LA and
(05:48):
they changed the direction ofthe plane by one degree or
something, you'd end up in acompletely different in the
middle of the ocean. So if wecan find ways to break down,
change and not say, Okay, it'sJanuary, and I've got to become
a different person, get anotherjob, lose 20 pounds, work out
every day, right? But it's Whodo I want to be? And then what
(06:11):
tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, littlehabits can I make? Can I form
and focus on the processes thatsupport you.
Laura Bowman (06:24):
Yeah, I got the same out of that book, like the
processes and the systems andhow some of the most powerful
imagery that I got out of thatbook was when he's talking about
ice melting and that thetemperature has to decrease, you
know one degree at a time, andyou don't see these changes.
(06:44):
These are imperceptible. This isyou putting in the reps, like
doing the workouts, or makingthe green drinks, or going not
doing alcohol, or whatever thelittle imperceptible behaviors
are. And the temperature comesdown, until all of a sudden the
ice melts. And he has the sameimagery with the bamboo. Yeah, I
was just gonna say the bamboo isgrowing for years underground
(07:07):
building infrastructure, untilone day it like shoots into the
air, right?
Colette Fehr (07:12):
And you don't see anything that's happening. And I
yeah, I think this is a partwhere people can get really
stuck. I think we can all getstuck. I think he calls it like
the Valley of disappointment.
There the valley of despair.
Laura Bowman (07:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, waiting for your change to like,
show you some sort of reward,
Colette Fehr (07:31):
but it's a delayed right process, right? It's a
delayed process. And I thinkthat's the part people don't
see. You know, I've recentlymade a lot of changes to my
life, what I'm doingprofessionally, what I'm
dreaming as possible to doprofessionally, this being part
of it. And it started, it looksto people like, oh my gosh,
(07:54):
you're doing all this stuffovernight. But I started laying
a foundation for these things,you know, like going on TV,
podcasting, doing publicspeaking, a long time ago, when
no one saw anything happening,and even I, at times,
questioned, is this goinganywhere?
Laura Bowman (08:14):
Yes, and that you have to be okay with a season,
maybe a couple seasons of thattype of and putting in the reps
I'm seeing where this is going.
I'm not sure where it's going.
I'm staying curious, I'm stayingopen, I'm staying committed
Colette Fehr (08:31):
and flexible enough to alter the smaller,
little goals. So let's talkabout that along the way. Let's
talk about the identity piece.
Because I think for ourlisteners, whatever it is you
decide to do with the freshstart this year, and if you
decide to do nothing, that'sokay too. I mean, I do think
this becomes yet another socialpressure and like, fuck that,
(08:52):
right? If this is a year whereyou just want to breathe and
live, that's a great goal, yeah,more joy, just more presence,
more Yeah, time, right? Butevery time we have the end of a
season, the end of a year, Ieven think a lot about it in
September, back to those newnotebooks for the school year.
(09:12):
That's such a habit in my bodyof like Fall is a fresh start,
just an opportunity to thinkmore about life is short, and
how do I want to live it? Do Iwant to wake up every day and
get out of bed and feel excitedto be alive? That's what I want.
And so when I think about what Iwant to change and and right
now, I am thinking about that alot, even as I have a lot on my
(09:36):
plate, I think about okay, whenI envision myself taking
responsibility for my own life,knowing I'm the only person who
is going to take care of me,ultimately, right? I'm going to
live the life I create. How do Isee myself? And then, okay, what
(09:56):
do I need to do? What do.
Read, do I need to shift thecourse of the airplane almost
imperceptibly? That helps me getfrom here to there?
Laura Bowman (10:09):
Can we just stop for a minute? Because I love so
much what you just said, youknow, I just told you before we
started. I love the posts youhave about that your life really
began to change when you realizethat no one was coming to save
you. Yes, that it was gonnaYeah, oh, it was gonna be you
that changed your life, and youwere responsible for you. And,
(10:29):
you know, having seen a lot ofpeople, and being this person
myself at times, and having thebelief that something outside of
me was gonna fix things for me,that's a change unto itself. If
that's the one thing you tacklethis year that you realize, like
your life is yourresponsibility,
(10:51):
that's its own, its own thing.
Colette Fehr (10:53):
It's a huge thing.
And I didn't always see it thatway. I mean, sadly, there were
times that I had romanticfantasies that I bought into
that I believe, like the fairytale of as as awful as it
sounds, I would never have saidit this way. Yeah, yeah. You
know, like, like, Oh, someone'sgonna ride up on a white horse
and kiss me while I'm in a comaand bring me back to life. But I
(11:16):
think initially, after mydivorce, I sort of thought that
like, Oh, I'll be in a betterrelationship, and everything
will work out. And that wasreally abdicating all of my
responsibility and not onlythat, but my power,
yep, yep. So it is a huge shift,and it is critically important,
(11:39):
but let's talk a little bitabout what that looks like,
because we see this in therapy,right? And I see it as when
you're not taking responsibilityfor your life, it's a mindset
where you're steeped inresentment, victimology,
victimology, resentment,jealousy about other people,
(12:01):
right? Oh, it's not fair. Theyhave this and this, and they
didn't work that hard. You know,I work so hard,
Laura Bowman (12:09):
screwed in this scenario. It wasn't right. Yeah,
yeah. And, you know what I justwant to say, like, if you're in
that place, that's information,it's just, and I think you have
to grieve, and you have to,like, listen to your own
resentments, but God, don't,don't stay there. Like, that's
not a place to stay, it's aplace to visit, hopefully, to
(12:32):
pass through. And it's like, ifyou can pass through, it,
things can get better.
Colette Fehr (12:38):
Yeah, this is not to say that if something awful
has happened, that you don'thave a right to feel angry,
hurt, disappointed, rage at theuniverse. I mean, these feelings
are normal, but there's adifference between a victim
mindset and getting stuck inresentment, and I don't think
resentment is really ever ahealthy place to me, to me,
(13:01):
resentment means that there'ssomething, some place you're
letting go of your power becauseit's sort of a hybrid of like
anger and hurt and injustice andagain, doesn't mean you don't
have a right to be angry, orthat a wrong has not been
perpetrated, but you're choosingto stew in your own disempowered
(13:23):
juices instead of say, Okay,this fucked up thing happened,
it's not okay. That personwronged me, or that person like
hurt me. Now, what am I gonna doabout it? How am I gonna take
back my power, rebuild my life?
Focus on me, because whateveranyone else out there is doing
has absolutely, really, at theend of the day, no bearing on
(13:44):
your happiness.
Laura Bowman (13:47):
Yeah, yeah. As soon as you can I completely
agree with everything you justsaid, and that is the quickest
you can get to the question of,What are my choices? What are
the choices I have? Now, youknow, even though this fucked up
thing happened or this wasn'tfair, of this is not supposed to
be my life. What choices do Ihave now? And the people who can
(14:08):
get past that place are focusedon what their choices are,
Colette Fehr (14:12):
yes, and what do I want to do? And again, it
doesn't mean something awfulhasn't happened that doesn't
take time to work through I'mnot minimizing that, nor am I
saying I've never been stuck inthese places myself. Oh, I have,
yeah, I think we all have, butI've learned from them. And now,
when something happens to mewhere I feel wronged by someone,
(14:35):
or hurt or disappointed, I stillfeel the feelings, but I really
don't shift into the like, Oh,you did this to me. I stay in
the like, okay, so what doesthis mean for me? What
boundaries do I need to set?
What role did I play and whatwent wrong, if any. How can I
learn from it? How can I grow?
You know, what does this tell meabout who I want in my life,
(14:57):
what kind of relationships Iwant? It's just a.
Different shift. So what we'resaying here is all change starts
with owning responsibility foryour life. Yeah, yeah, start
here. Have you ever read thatpoem? I think I read it to you
years ago. It's not even a poem.
It's like an ode toresponsibility.
Laura Bowman (15:18):
No, I'm curious now
Colette Fehr (15:19):
that I found. Oh, my God. If I can find it, I'm
gonna read it. I think I have itokay. I found it in a drawer at
when I worked in residentialtreatment, you know, years ago
for aspire, and it was sopowerful. Let me just see if I
have it really fast.
Laura Bowman (15:39):
I think we all need to hear that
Colette Fehr (15:41):
it's so it's almost shocking how, like hard
core it goes.
But it's here it is. I havesaved almost nothing, and I
this. I mean, I must have gottenthis 20 years ago, okay,
(16:01):
it's called the risk ofautonomy.
Laura Bowman (16:04):
Oh, I have this sheet. I got this sheet years
ago, I think from somebody,maybe, yeah, probably, maybe
that's where I got it. Let'sgive Sally credit, yeah, okay.
Colette Fehr (16:14):
Should I read it?
Laura Bowman (16:15):
Please? It's so powerful.
Colette Fehr (16:17):
Okay, the risks of autonomy. Who's responsible for
you, accepting responsibilitygives with giving up the hope
that someone else will care foryou and protect you. We are
largely alone in this world, andalways have been.
There is no other road to takein life but to accept
responsibility. If you do notaccept responsibility for your
(16:39):
life, for every bit of your lifeyou place yourself in jeopardy.
You've been you for a long timenow, and you've had the ability
to say no and to act on yourbeliefs. As soon as you were
aware something was wrong, youhad some responsibility for
changing it. Other people do nothave an accurate view of your
inner world, your plans orpotential others can never
(17:02):
really act for you, but only forwhat they think you need. In
other words, for them, when youaccept responsibility, you are
saying, This is my risk. I am injeopardy, and I will assume it.
To accept responsibility meansthat you're going to do what has
to be done, or you're not goingto do what has to be done, and
that whatever happens, good orbad, it's to your credit or to
(17:24):
your fault.
Okay, here's the mantra part,you are responsible for what you
say. You are responsible forwhat you are. You are
responsible for what you feel.
You are responsible for what youdo. You are not responsible for
making anyone else happy. Youare not responsible for becoming
what someone else wants you tobe. You are not responsible for
distorting the truth to keepfrom hurting another person's
(17:48):
feelings. Amen. You areresponsible when someone breaks
a secret you told them becauseyou were a poor judge of
character. Ouch. You areresponsible when people use what
you say to hurt you, because youshould be able to tell when a
person does not wish you well,and you are responsible for
defending yourself. You areresponsible for the ties other
(18:08):
people have with you, because ittakes two to tango. You are
responsible for everything inyour life that wouldn't be there
unless you did something. If youdon't like your lifestyle, you
are responsible if you don'tlike your job, you are
responsible if you don't likeyour home, you are responsible
if you don't like your husbandor wife, you are responsible. If
(18:28):
you don't like you You areresponsible if you don't like
the way you are treated, you areresponsible. You are responsible
for everything in your life, allthe successes and failures,
accept your success with modestyand gratitude that your plans
have worked out. Accept yourfailures as realities from which
you must learn without takingresponsibility for your life,
(18:52):
you will never be happy, becauseno one can fix your life but
you. And this is by Dr Davidviscot from a book called
risking.
Laura Bowman (19:03):
Yeah, I've tried to get that book, I haven't been
able to find it. Oh, I thinkit's out of print, but oh my
god, I feel like I feel veryshook by that,
Colette Fehr (19:13):
me too,
Laura Bowman (19:13):
but I think I'm so glad we're talking about this
while we're talking aboutchange, because this is the this
is the nascent place of change,yeah.
Why people get stuck?
Colette Fehr (19:28):
Yeah, oh, yeah.
You have to be willing to saywhatever is happening in my
life, I am responsible, and if Iwant to change it, starts with
me and ends with me.
Laura Bowman (19:42):
Yeah, and I've had phases, god of it. I've had to
go around a circle, and like somany iterations of trying to get
other people to do things, youknow, so that I would feel
better. Or when are you going tofix this so I can relax? I.
Had to go around that May till afew times before I finally
(20:04):
gotten here.
Colette Fehr (20:06):
Oh, me too. And for years, even in my current
marriage, I did this, and now Idon't do it anymore, but I used
to, oh, if I do it this way,then you'll get it and you'll
change. Oh, if I say it thatthat way. Oh, maybe if I do
this, but surely I can explain,and I used to like tap dance
around, in part because that wasthe role I played as a child.
(20:28):
You know, feeling empowered andadultified in ways to manage, to
try to manage adults during myparents divorce. I think that's
where I learned that behavior,not that it worked, but it was
some way to try to exert controlover what I felt powerless about
in my environment. But we growup and we're still doing these
(20:48):
things become habits ofbehavior, and that is right up
there with taking responsibilityis letting go of the
responsibility of managing otherpeople are who they are. Yeah,
let them do what they're gonnado, and then you have choices to
make based on what they do.
Laura Bowman (21:09):
And this right here is like so often why women
come to therapy, right? They'reso frustrated by my partner
behaviors that won't change mychildren, yeah, things that just
feel so unyielding, and theywant, yeah, they want control,
and it's, it's accepting andallowing. And you see people
banging their head against thiswall for years, okay, well, I'm
(21:32):
glad we, we started withresponsibility,
Colette Fehr (21:34):
me too, and I have little goosebumps, and I have
had that thing for 20 years.
I've read it a million times.
Yeah, it never fails to producea charge in my body, yeah, like,
a feeling of, wow. And even now,as I read it again, and there's
been so much growth on takingresponsibility and letting go of
(21:55):
what isn't mine, there's still alot more work to do, and it's an
important thing to remindourselves of, what stay in your
lane, drive your car in yourlane. Yes, everybody else it
might be, you know, like I 95 inMiami, out there, but you do
you,
Laura Bowman (22:16):
and allow their people to do them. Yes, this is
like the Mel Robbins, let themtheory, right? Yeah. Have you
seen that?
Colette Fehr (22:25):
I I've, yes, I've, it's not, yeah, oh yeah, I've
seen it. Her new book. I'm not,like a huge fan, so
Laura Bowman (22:33):
I'm not either, but I think it's that idea of
let people do what they're goingto do. Behavior is a language,
and then it's up to you torespond. You know how you're
gonna live your life. I lovebehavior as a language. Behavior
is a language. It communicates,doesn't it? Right? Because words
are meaningless if they're notaccompanied by consistent,
(22:53):
congruent behavior, yeah. Okay,so let's shift into like nuts
and like other strategies forchange. What has been like an
area in your life where you'rethe proudest of changes you've
made,where you made the best change.
Colette Fehr (23:11):
I feel like I've made so many changes I have, and
I'm constantly making changes. Ifeel like I reinvent myself over
and over, and this is sort ofthe way I live my life. I really
like change, but I would sayjust to out myself a little, or
at the risk of outing myself alittle, one of the biggest and
(23:33):
hardest of my life has beenquitting smoking.
Laura Bowman (23:36):
Yeah,
Colette Fehr (23:37):
I mean, I was like a crack addict with cigarettes,
and I started smoking at a veryyoung age, very young, like 12
years old. We could buycigarettes in the vending
machine at the train station.
You know, I grew up in a suburbof New York, so we took the
train all the time, back andforth to different towns where
my friends lived. I was alwaysat the train station, and I was
(24:00):
always smoking cigarettes at thetrain station. And all my
friends did it too, but most ofthem didn't get hooked on it to
the degree I did. You know howyou can have a genetic
predisposition for certainaddictions, cigarettes? It's
like my greatest true love.
(24:21):
Yeah, I've heard other peoplesay that same thing, Oh, my God.
And it really was more of abehavioral addiction. I never
had any nicotine withdrawal, andI know that's not the case for
everyone, but there wassomething about a moment where I
get to just think and processand like, smoke my sick, yeah,
(24:41):
yeah, that I couldn't everimagine my life without.
And I tried everything.
Eventually I it was giving mesome health consequences, like I
still don't really know exactlywhat, but once I discovered that
I really had to.
Make a decision to get that outof my life. And at that point,
(25:04):
I'd been smoking on and offsince I was 12 years old, and I
didn't quit.
Laura Bowman (25:09):
When you finally quit,
Colette Fehr (25:10):
40,
Laura Bowman (25:11):
really?
Colette Fehr (25:13):
Yeah,
Laura Bowman (25:13):
God, well, you made it look easy, because when
you quit, I felt like you justmade a decision. But was it like
fear and pain that kind of like,yeah, and this is that choice
well, wow, yeah, wow, yeah.
Colette Fehr (25:24):
and this is one of the things about making change,
So the motivationwas fear, wanting to be in good
is that you do have to have somemotivation. And my motivation
was, you know, I didn't. I quitwhen I graduated from college. I
didn't ever see myself beinglike an adult smoker. I thought
it wasn't part of my identitythat I wanted to be a smoker.
Like, if I saw an adult smoking,I was like, ew. But then I
(25:45):
smoked. So when I do it, yes, itmade no sense, but I did quit
after college, and then I didn'tsmoke for years, until after I
had Charlotte, my firstdaughter, then it became just
the like, Oh, I'm just gonnahave a cigarette, like, the few
times I get out of the housewith like, a glass of wine.
Because, you know, your wholelife changes when you become a
(26:08):
mom, it became a mini rebellion.
But because I have so manyneural pathways for that,
eventually I started smokingmore and more, and then when I
got divorced, that's when I gotback into it. So I had about
eight or nine years of like,chain smoking,
(26:30):
health, and I realized I had arationalizing story of, like,
Okay, well, I'm gonna quitbefore I get lung cancer before
I do damage. Like, I'm justYoung and I'm smoking because
I'm going through a crisis,right? As soon as my crisis
ends, well, I mean, is thecrisis going to last my whole
life? Like, all of a sudden I'm40 years old, I'm not young,
(26:52):
right? I mean, I'm I'm a smokingadult. I had to confront the
fact that the identity Irejected was who I was and that
that's not what I wanted.
Laura Bowman (27:05):
Yeah, I love that.
Oh,yeah. I mean, I think pain is
one of these things that reallybrings you to your knees. I
think that's the thing aboveeverything that will help you
change the quickest You can wantto something, but fear,
consequence and pain are barnone.
Colette Fehr (27:27):
Okay, so this is why so often, and I get why
people are frustrated, but it'sreally true. I believe what
you're saying. I agree with whatyou're saying 1,000% when people
come to couples therapy,something I'll often hear is now
I'm about to walk out the doorlike I'm done. I basically told
him I want a divorce, and it'smore often the wife saying this,
(27:48):
and a heterosexual couple,and now he's ready to come to
therapy and make change, andhe's doing all these things
like, what the fuck it's toolittle too late. Why didn't you
do this eight years ago, when Itried to come to you with my
legitimate complaints, and youdidn't do shit. And it's
because, unfortunately,sometimes people cannot get
their head out of their assuntil they suffer. They taste
(28:12):
loss, they feel afraid
Laura Bowman (28:16):
100%
Colette Fehr (28:17):
and I guess the cautionary tale on this is if
you have a partner, whetheryou're a man or a woman who's
saying, Hey, I'm not happy, or Ifeel lonely, or we need to do
something. Listen, listen,before the pain comes. Because
sometimes people don't payattention until it's too late.
Laura Bowman (28:38):
I would argue most people don't pay attention until
it's too late. I think, I mean,it's in all, a lot of meaningful
change for me has come frompain. Watching my dad die at 61
and the health choices that hemade, and the confronting
reality of the genetics in myfamily, I think, has pushed me
(29:00):
to be much more conscious of myhealth than I otherwise would
have been,
Colette Fehr (29:05):
because you really changed the way you exercise,
the way you eat. Can you talkabout that a little?
Laura Bowman (29:11):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, my dad was, we just have a
pattern in our family of, like,emotional eating. They're just,
they're big drinkers, they'rebig eaters. They're just like,
my dad's whole family was likethe like Mad Men from the 1950s
cigarettes and like, martinis.
And,you know, my dad was a an eater.
He was a closet smoker. He was acloset drinker, which is so
(29:34):
weird, because he would go outand he would have a martini and
a non alcoholic beer and looklike the most moderate person.
But when he would go home to hishouse, it was a whole other
story. And he like binge ate. Hewas he soothed himself with
food. And unfortunately, I am myfather's daughter. I am my
(29:56):
father's daughter.
In so many ways. And I, I'm nota drinker or a smoker, but I am,
like, I'm prone to emotionaleating, and I'm, I'm just
watched him kill himself,essentially, till he got,
he got large B cell lymphoma,which killed him in like, 21
(30:19):
days. And my grandfather beforehim died. It's like, I think, 67
from lymphoma. So, like, thisis, you know, like you have to
look at your genetics and whoyou favor and take a hard look
at, like, Where am I headed if Idon't change these generational
patterns? So, you know, I becamea runner. I became, and that was
(30:43):
an incredible like awakening forme to my own power and my own
choices. And I loved becoming arunner, but it was initially
motivated out of God, I got totake care of myself, or this is
where I'm headed, and I'm stillconfronting that, you know, on
like eating whole foods. I knowwe probably are all on that. You
(31:04):
know that trajectory of like,some days you do better with
that than others, but I knowthat I have to take my health
seriously, yeah, and other painpoints. I mean, things with
money. I had a family wherepeople rescued other people with
I was rescued constantly withmoney. I had a client say to me,
say to me, I don't know anybodyanything. He said, I have paid
(31:28):
my college. Nobody's ever boughtme a car. Nobody's ever taken
care of me a day in my life. Andhe's like, I own my life. That's
what he was communicating to me.
And I'm sitting there thinking,oh, so I've had the opposite
experience, and it fostered thebelief that, like the help was
always coming from outside.
Colette Fehr (31:51):
Oh, my God. Oh my god, yes, yes, yes. That is
another huge change that you andI have both made. I was rescued
with money my whole life, too. Ireally did think it grew on
trees and that somehow it wouldalways be there. I was never
preoccupied with it. I justassumed, because it was always
going to be there, right? Itwould just materialize when I
(32:13):
need it. And I've never caredabout money or things very much.
But I didn't even realize howdistorted my beliefs were, and
it was a messy path. I mean,when I went to graduate school
to become a therapist, my fatherwas willing to pay for graduate
school, and I was trying to makethis change, and I was like, No,
I'm going to do it myself, andI'm going to take student loans
(32:36):
out, like everybody else. But Ididn't know what. I didn't know
my my financial and fiscalbehaviors and understanding were
so immature that I got myselfscrewed into like, $100,000
of student loans, and I just itwas a mess, and I paid them off,
but it was a nightmare. Yeah,and, you know, I was trying to
(32:58):
take responsibility and get outof all of that, but it was a
really bumpy road, and at manytimes, going back to
victimology, I was like, Ishould have let my dad pay the
hell who wouldn't pass like, whydid this happen to me? Well, it
happened to me because I didn'tknow what I was doing, right? I
(33:18):
didn't educate myself adequatelyon the loans. It's easy to blame
them on other people. I mean,it's not a really great
industry, but I think that ifyou're going to make changes in
your identity and how you dothings, changes that are
lasting, it is important to notethat there's going to be a lot
(33:38):
of messing up, a lot ofmessiness and painful growth
along the way. These changesdon't come easily.
Laura Bowman (33:46):
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's like you had to get
into that big bind, because Iwas, like, working next to you,
and you were getting out of it.
And I think it's like you'reborn in those moments. You know,
your identity is born in solvingsome of these problems. Like,
that's why I always say, like,kind of bless the mess. If
you're in a pain point right nowwhere you're like, I don't know
how this ends, you know, this iswhere you are being. This is
(34:10):
your crucible, where you arebecoming who you're meant to
become. Next Yeah, I know youwouldn't choose it, but it, it
is, forges the next level, itforges,
Colette Fehr (34:22):
yeah, because you saw you're right, you were there
beside me. There was a period ofmaybe two years. I didn't buy
anything, I didn't go anywhere.
I spent 1000s of dollars a monthon my student loans. I made the
choice to show out of it, right?
I had the temptation of, like,maybe it'll just go away. Maybe
some presidents will, like,eradicate it, or whatever. And
(34:46):
then I thought, You know what? Igotta just, I gotta take
responsibility and just do it.
And I listen. I'm not sayingeverybody's in a position to do
it. I'm not trying to sayeveryone is has the same
variables that I did.
Right? But what I am trying tosay is that it did not come
without suffering, and it didnot come without discipline. And
(35:07):
I do think this is somethingincreasingly society doesn't
like to talk about, but is alsovery important, whatever changes
you're going to make, there is adegree discipline is actually
healthy. It's the way we parentourselves. It doesn't have to
come with a rod and corporalpunishment, right? Figuratively
(35:28):
speaking, emotionally, we don'thave to beat ourselves up. We
can be encouraging selfcompassionate and self loving,
but we do have to hold ourselvesaccountable and build a muscle
for discipline.
Laura Bowman (35:40):
I completely agree. You know, becoming a
consistent human is whatbecoming an adult is, yes, and
I, I love, I love that stuff nowit's, it's kind of where I find
the most pride when I waslooking back on the years. You
know, sometimes you think I'mgoing to make a change and it's
going to happen really quickly.
But like you said, it's like,one degree at a time, and I feel
(36:02):
like I have layers of sedimentnow where it's like, Okay, I did
that for a year, yeah, and nowI'm doing this for a year. Like,
I mean, I, I was so happy tosee, like, my streak, my like,
I'm, you know, I do weightlifting. I've done it like 202
20 classes now I go
Colette Fehr (36:22):
amazing. Laura,
Laura Bowman (36:24):
yeah, and I'm getting stronger, and I know
this year I can get a layerstronger. I can take it to the
next level from here. And I feellike that's the way my life has
gone, in general, with mybusiness, with where I push
myself, it's like I go here, andthen I go a level up, but this
is just, you're just taking thenext step of consistency and
(36:46):
discipline. Yep, exactly. It'snot sexy,
Colette Fehr (36:50):
no. And that is actually my thing right now, for
this year, I have so much goingon professionally, I don't feel
like I need any more goalsthere. I really want to get back
in shape. It's interesting forme. I'm someone who has popped
in and out of being in goodshape, and I can, you know how
they say there's no true scienceto how many days it takes to set
(37:14):
a habit.
It's just never quite becomeslike a permanent habit for me.
And I mean, I've gone a decadewhere I didn't miss more than a
workout a week, where I wasexercising every day and feeling
good about it always brings aton of dopamine, which is the
reward loop of habits, right?
That something feels good, itmakes you want to do it more.
(37:36):
Somehow, it never quite takesoff for me with exercise,
there's still that, like,teenage part in me that wants
to, like, lay around, eat junkfood and binge watch TV and read
books like that is, like, mydefault, a very strong part in
identity. Yeah, that like, ifthat part gets the chance to do
(37:57):
that, that thing will come backwhere I just and I'm not a lazy
person at all. It's not that.
It's just like, I guess the wayI learned to self soothe at a
young age that still feels thestrongest. So getting up and
getting right into my workoutclothes, because early morning
(38:18):
is really just the only way Ican consistently work out,
yeah, you know, I want to getback into that. So as we segue a
little into like, let's givesome of the bullet points about
making these small changes. Thatis the one degree toward the
life you want to live, whateverthat may be, you know, I can use
(38:40):
as an example for me. I'm tryingto, I was going to do 10 minutes
a day, you know. But even that,I feel like and set a certain
time a day, even that isprobably too big. And this is
where I think a lot of people gowrong, because they don't have
the patience to say, if I sliceit really thin, right? Then it
(39:02):
feels like it's not good enough,
Laura Bowman (39:04):
it's not big enough, it's not gonna help,
Colette Fehr (39:06):
yeah, but the way to do it, and I've done this
before, and it worked. I didthis during COVID. I lost now
I'm on zepbound diet shots, asyou know, and I'm losing weight
slowly. But back during COVID, iand it's not as easy, even on
the damn shots, like I'm notthis person who's disappearing
(39:27):
in three months like otherpeople, like, I'm still hungry.
It's fucking crazy, but it'sdefinitely helping. But during
COVID, I lost like 2530 poundson my own, yeah, and I built a
regular habit of working out.
And I started really, reallysmall. So I think where I need
(39:47):
to go is I've got to get myselfin the clothes. I've got to get
I'm in the habit right now oflaying in bed. I wake up early,
but I lay in bed and I playeight.
Eight New York Times wordpuzzles. A lot of people do
that. Yeah, and I love it. It'slike, my favorite little time of
the day. So I've either got to,like, add this new I want to get
(40:11):
in the clothes and I just wantto get on my stupid fucking
peloton that is sitting therelike an obnoxious piece of
furniture in my living roomunused.
Laura Bowman (40:21):
Well, that's a big BJ Fogg strategy, right? That
you take an existing habit andyou link a new one to it, yeah?
Colette Fehr (40:28):
And James clear says that too, right? Yeah. BJ
Fogg talks about, every time hepeed he did two set of two push
ups, yeah, that's, yeah, I getthat. So I'm trying to figure
out, you know how I can just getmyself into the clothes and get
on the peloton? Truly, if I werewilling to spend a month where I
(40:50):
just got dressed and got on andwalked for two minutes,
Laura Bowman (40:54):
you would do it.
You would start.
Colette Fehr (40:55):
Yeah, that's probably what I need to do.
Because, guess what, in sixmonths, I'll be back to running
two or three miles. Instead,what I did is I signed up for a
5k which I can't run, and I,like, bought all those weight
things at your place, which I'llgo once, and I'll be, like, in
the hospital. It's too big. It'stoo big. You got to start right
(41:17):
there, right work your way up.
And the steps are, I was justlooking at this. There has to be
a cue, right? A craving, aresponse and a reward. This is
how you build habits, and ahabit is essentially just
something that's automated. Yourbrain no longer has to divert
mental energy and resources tomaking it happen. You just do it
right? I wake up and I grab mylittle Spelling Bee, and I'm
(41:40):
ecstatic when I see the littleletters. And can I figure it out
without the hints?
I want to be that ecstatic aboutgetting on my peloton.
Laura Bowman (41:55):
Yeah, and it may take months, but this is, you
know, I've talked aboutElizabeth Benton before on this.
But if anybody's like curious, Ilove her principles. She has
this whole thing on consistency.
She has the principles ofconsistency. So if you're
curious, look up ElizabethBenton, which one of her
principles of consistency is,because I struggled with this.
Yeah. Is that where you start isnot where you stay? And this is
(42:18):
exactly what you're talkingabout. Yeah, is that you start
by just putting your workoutoutfit on and like, standing on
the treadmill, but you know, twomonths later you're going to be
walking two miles or running amile or whatever,
Colette Fehr (42:35):
right? Because the point is that actually some days
you might get on because myhardest part is getting in the
clothes. Yeah, it's like, cold.
I mean, Florida cold, you know,not, not 89 degrees. And I'm
like, Oh, I'd rather be under myduvet cover doing my little word
puzzles. But once I'm in theclose many days, I'm gonna get
(42:57):
on the treadmill, and maybe Iwill feel like doing it, but
then there are those days thatI'm not going to feel like doing
it. And this is the point ofhaving it small, is that if it's
super small, and I know I onlyhave to get on and walk for two
minutes, right? And then I'mdone, then on those days, I've
still met my goal.
Laura Bowman (43:19):
I love that. Yeah, so that's where you're starting.
That's your big that's yourbeginning of building the bamboo
infrastructure.
Colette Fehr (43:28):
Yes. And Laura, as I say this, there is the part of
me I can feel her chomping atthe bit right now, going shut
the up. Colette, that is thedumbest thing ever. That's not
good enough. It's notsatisfying. You're gonna put all
this energy and you're onlygonna do two minutes like you
gotta go, go, go. You're losingmuscle tone. You don't have time
(43:49):
for this to take months, right?
Laura Bowman (43:51):
I can feel that part, but that actually, that
part will slow you down. Andbelieve system that slows us
down. And this is never goodenough, right? It's never big
enough change, impactful enoughchange.
Colette Fehr (44:04):
And this is where self compassion comes in, where
I can talk to that part and say,I hear you that you're worried
that I'm not going to make thesechanges, that I'm not going to
get back in shape, that I'mgoing to lose all my muscle
tone, because these diet shotsmake you lose muscle even more.
And we know at this stage oflife, muscle and everything. I
mean, I was never that muscular.
I am like, the most deliciousjelly donut right now. Like, it
(44:29):
is really bad. Yeah, so, butthat part's just worried that if
it doesn't push me to say, Okay,tomorrow before work, I'm gonna
get on the treadmill and I'mgonna run for 45 minutes, 40
minutes. 40 minutes, yeah, yeah,like that will feel like a
workout. But you know what? ThenI won't do it again, because I
won't be able to walk for fourdays, right?
Laura Bowman (44:52):
Right? So where you start is not where you stay,
right? And trust the process onchange, right? And making a.
Small change. So the idea of acue is what is going to be the
impetus for the thing, like,pair it with something else,
right? Make it more attractiveto do it. Like coffee is like,
(45:14):
for me, my cue, like, I can getout of bed for coffee, and if
I'm out of bed, I'm likely to dosome sort of physical movement.
Colette Fehr (45:25):
Okay, you know, another friend of mine was just
saying the same thing about theQB and coffee. Maybe I should
try that. Yeah, I probably, if Ihad to quit coffee, I think some
of my behaviors would slip.
Well, I'm definitely notquitting coffee, but I was
thinking maybe even so the cue,I thought about doing my one
little Wordle, but then what ifI did because the idea of making
(45:48):
it attractive, you know, a lotof people will talk about with
habits watch your favorite TVshow on the treadmill or the
bike, yeah. So you're pairing anactivity you love with an
activity that's less desirable.
You know, I can't really rundoing my word puzzles. But what
if, as I first got on, what if Idid my little spelling bee?
(46:09):
Yeah, as I was warming up,
Laura Bowman (46:12):
I love that. I would pair it. I would pair that
whole
Colette Fehr (46:15):
I'm gonna try that. I'm gonna try that. And
then the other thing that Ithink I'm just using this as a
metaphor, but is making it easy.
So what worked for me duringCOVID was that I got my workout
clothes out. They were rightthere. I didn't have to do that
extra step right? I sit and Iput them right by the bed, like,
(46:36):
there they are.
Laura Bowman (46:40):
Yeah, no, that's a great idea. Those are, those are
perfect for that habit. Uh, oneof the things that I know that
I'm ready to do, and I just sortof confronted this recently, is
that there's been a few areas ofmy life that I really want to
take to the next level. And Iwas like, I think I need help.
(47:01):
Like, I think I need to, like,hire somebody for what, like, I
think I want a business coach.
Like, I think I need that like,and I, you know, I have this,
I'm very independent, or I'm,I'm a, I'm somebody who I think
is pretty hard to help. I do alot of, like, internal
processing, yeah, you know thatabout me? And so I don't, I'm
always kind of keeping my own, Idon't know my own thoughts in
(47:26):
and and they're all inside. AndI think I need to externalize
some of these things, becausethe consciousness that creates
problems is not theconsciousness that's going to
solve a problem. So I'm like, Ithink I want help here. I've
also thought about like, there'sthis money group, like investing
group for women, and I'm like, Ithink I might want to get
(47:47):
involved in so I think I needhelp. I think I need the
inspiration of other people topush me forward, because my mind
doesn't know the next stepthere, right?
Colette Fehr (48:00):
Okay, so that's another good investment group. I
want to do that too. I know,right? I need to be educated.
Yes, I need it more. There'sjust I need help in certain
areas. And I think we all needhelp in certain areas. I agree.
I think I need help in some ofthe areas, you need help too. I
think what's hard thoughsometimes, is finding the right
(48:21):
person, finding the right fit,yeah, but that's okay. It's not
an overnight thing, you know.
But I love that, right? Like, ifyou're stuck, get help. Get
help, right with whatever it is,
Laura Bowman (48:36):
yeah, you know, quitting drinking. Like,
sometimes people need peopleneed help. There. There There
are some things you can keepyour own counsel around, and you
can create momentum on your own.
And in that case, it's like,maybe you don't broadcast your
intentions. Like those peoplethat are like, I'm gonna get in
such like, color shape, like,this is the year, right? It's
like, Shut up, you know, justkeep it to yourself for a while,
(48:56):
right?
Colette Fehr (48:58):
Yeah, I never keep anything to myself, as you know,
but I agree, stop.
Laura Bowman (49:05):
Don't broadcast it, because when you
broadcast it, sometimes it takesall the energy out of it. When
you have, like, a littlepersonal goal, sometimes it's
like you're working, you'regardening at night. It's kind of
like exciting. It's on the day.
I love you.
Colette Fehr (49:18):
I hear you. I think I'm a little bit opposite
on this one, and maybe it speaksto our extroversion,
introversion, internal versusexternal processing. For me,
yes, I run the risk of, like, Isay a goal, and then people are
like, she didn't do it. At thispoint in my life, I don't give a
fuck. At least I'm somebodywho's stepping up to the plate
and taking chances, and so if,like, the world sees that I
(49:42):
didn't make a goal happen, like,so be it. So be it. Everybody
else can stay home and sucktheir thumb while I'm not taking
risks so I don't feelembarrassed. But what it does
for me when I tell people is itmakes it more real. I mean, I'm
No, love it. I love it. Thatdoesn't that doesn't hold me
just saying I'm not.
(50:03):
back anymore. I think it used toat some point, look, oh, if I
say I want to have a TV show,then if I don't get a TV show,
then everyone's gonna see that.
Who cares? Great. At least Iwent for it, right? I don't know
what's gonna happen, but to me,when I say I want to have a TV
show. I want to be a therapiston TV when I put that out into
(50:24):
the world, and I don't want itfor fame, I want it for the joy
of it like it's something thatexcites me, it's a new
challenge. It's something thatmakes me want to jump up out of
bed and wake up every day.
That's why I want it. I want tofeel alive. And so the more I
say it, and the more I tellpeople to me, the more energy it
(50:45):
gets, the more real it feels,the more my intentions of like
this is what I'm doing, and it'shappening feel real.
Laura Bowman (50:52):
I mean, I totally get that. And then the other
perspective, just for me, isthat I feel like I need to
create self trust aroundbehaviors. So if I want to do
something that is new to me orit's not in line with my default
mechanisms, and I know that I,you know, my system is always
pulling me off the road, I wantto prove to myself with
(51:15):
behavior, yeah, quietly, thatI've got what it takes to do the
thing, yeah, where I'm saying itinto the world, but that makes
sense too, yeah, that makessense too. But at the same time,
I think there are areas whereyou have to like, be like, I'm
raising my hand. I'm doing help.
I need help. I need somebody tolike. I need somebody else's
thoughts or some accountabilityaround something, process with
(51:38):
somebody and get into action?
Yes, yeah. So you just have toknow what those things are. For
you.
Another thing that us talking, Iknow we're like, running long
here, is that you always, we'realways thinking about that, you
know, the negative way we thinkis that we always have to
remediate our weaknesses, right?
Like, just even you with, like,the getting in shape, like, it's
(52:01):
something that's hard for you,but it's like, you want to, you
want to deal with it. I thinkchange should be about
remediating some weaknesses, butlike, double downing on your
strengths. I think that's like,I mean, your example of that,
like, with the speaking stuffand the acting stuff and the
television stuff that's yougoing, I know what I'm good at,
(52:23):
and I'm like, putting, I'msliding my money towards black,
right? Yeah, yeah. And and that,I think most of our energy
should go to things that we'reexceptional at, and some of our
energy should go towardsremediating the things
Colette Fehr (52:40):
I agree I am not trying to become like a fitness
guru, yeah, right, right, yeah.
I just want, really, mymotivation is to just feel and
be healthy. You know? I want tobe healthy. I want to take care
of myself, because I care aboutmyself, but that is not my
thing. It's never gonna be mything. So for me, it's more a
(53:01):
matter of, you know, as I'mthinking about the changes I've
scanned back. And this can behelpful for people too, to times
in my life where my fitnessroutine was serving me, not what
other people think it should be.
I'm not gonna spend hours in thegym, and I don't want to. I'm
not interested in that, and andall the power to you, if you
(53:24):
are, it's just not for me. Buttimes when my routine worked
well was when I woke up, Iswallowed the frog. I did about
a 20 minute workout. I ran outof trouble. I do really like to
run. I'm not willing to gooutside in the dark by myself
for a host of reasons, but thatwas when I really enjoyed
(53:48):
working out. It I felt great.
You know, I love the endorphinsit gives you. So something like
that's probably the bigtrajectory for me, is I want to
get in like you and I havetalked about a couple of weight
workouts a week, yeah, which Ididn't used to do. And then I
want to wake up most morningsand do a short burst of cardio,
whether it's walking fastjogging. You know that that's
(54:10):
it. That's like the that's thefinal road Yeah, so, but I
agree, your strengths are yourstrengths for a reason. They're
gonna bring you the most joy.
Laura Bowman (54:24):
If you're gonna pull you forward the quickest,
like you're you're never gonnabe like whatever. I mean, I'm
terrible at, like, math. I'mnever gonna be an abstract
mathematician, and spending anytime there is pretty much a
waste of my energy. So it'slike, figure out the things that
you as your special sauce, andput energy towards that this
(54:45):
year. So if you looking at thethings you want to change, and
they're all things that are notareas of strength for you, pick
at least one area where you'redoubling down on your essential
stuff, right?
Colette Fehr (54:55):
And just 1% what have you shifted? Just 1% Yeah.
You know what? If you just reada book about something you're
interested in, what rate likestart really small. So for these
goals we're talking about, pairit up with some kind of cue
that's going to lead to a newbehavior. Make it attractive.
(55:18):
Make it easy. You need some kindof reward built in. You know,
maybe the queue is coffee, butmaybe after the workout, it's
another coffee, or it's a go, apastry, or whatever. The hell
who cares? Just something thatfeels like a reward. And then I
think one final thing you and Italk about all the time, but
(55:39):
it's so important for this, whenwe're making identity based
changes and creating changeabout living the life you want
to live. Visualize.
Visualization is a proven tool.
It works. You know that book TheSecret a million years ago,
whether you think that's a bunchof bullshit or the most profound
book you ever read, the ifthere's anything to it, it's
(56:03):
that what your mind focuses on,what you see for yourself, it
fills your heart, it expands inyour body, and you will
naturally start to take actionaccording to what you're
envisioning. So think about if Iwere so excited to get out of
(56:23):
bed every day in six months,what would be happening in my
life that would make that cometrue?
Laura Bowman (56:30):
Yeah, that's an excellent question, right? Yeah,
by my life, what would behappening? Yes, and then,
Colette Fehr (56:39):
and then backtrack from there, take some
teeniest nugget, yeah, yeah, andyou'll get there.
Laura Bowman (56:46):
So goals are big and small. They're public and
private, their strengths andweaknesses, yeah, like they're,
you know, there's paradox,there's nuance to how you do
change. But I think we hit ittoday, and you got at the heart
of it, it's you taking radicalresponsibility for your life,
for your one precious life,
Colette Fehr (57:06):
exactly. Mary Oliver, what will you do with
your one wild and precious life?
Exactly? All right. Well, onthat note, let's wrap up. Thank
you all for listening, and ifyou liked what you heard today
on insights from the couch, andwe hope you did. Please share
with your friends, and don'tforget to write us a five star
review. Those reviews help usspread the word to other women
(57:29):
out there like you. We're sograteful to you all and excited
to be back for season three.
Lots more good episodes to comeevery Wednesday, take care,
guys, bye. You.
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