January 29, 2025 • 40 mins
In this heartfelt and inspiring episode, we sit down with the incredible Sandy Weiner, internationally recognized dating coach, TEDx speaker, best-selling author, and host of Last First Date Radio. Sandy shares her journey of rediscovering love at midlife and the empowering lessons she’s learned about dating, self-knowledge, and personal growth. We dive into her holistic approach to dating and relationships, explore the surprising ways midlifers can find lasting love, and discuss what it really takes to build a meaningful relationship at this stage of life. Join us as we uncover the keys to finding—and keeping—a lasting love.
Episode Highlights:
[00:00] - Introduction to Sandy Weiner and her inspiring journey to becoming a dating and relationship coach.
[05:25] - The influence of family dynamics on our approach to relationships.
[07:22] - Coaching highlights and witnessing clients grow into fulfilling relationships.
[13:05] - Staying open to unexpected romantic connections, even in unlikely places.
[18:51] - The rise of self-sufficient women at midlife and the choice to remain single unless a partner adds genuine value.
[20:48] - Overcoming the most common dating obstacles and the importance of a growth mindset.
[29:38] - Knowing and respecting your “operating system” in relationships.
[30:49] - Secrets to making love last, from self-improvement to embracing compatibility over chemistry.
Resources:
- Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/yourlastfirstdate/
- Website: http://lastfirstdate.com/
- Last First Date Radio Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/last-first-date-radio/id586220219?mt=2
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lastfirstdate1/
- YouTube Last First Date https://youtube.com/@Lastfirstdate
- Free Gift: Book Bonuses for Love at Last: https://lastfirstdate.com/love-at-last-book-bonuses-sign-up-page/ https://lastfirstdate.com/loveatlastbonus
For more on this topic visit our website insightsfromthecouch.org If you have questions please email us at info@insightsfromthecouch.org we would love to hear from you!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colette Fehr (00:00):
Sandy, welcome back to insights from the couch
(00:05):
mental health at midlife. Wehave a fabulous guest today,
Sandy Weiner, who is here withus to talk about dating at
midlife and beyond, and findinglove at this stage of life,
which we're all very optimisticabout. Sandy leaner is the chief
love officer. I love that atlast first date. She's an
(00:27):
internationally known TEDxspeaker, dating and relationship
coach, author and podcast host.
Her approach to coaching isholistic, encompassing a hybrid
mix of life coaching, neurolinguistic programming and non
violent communication. She's theauthor of three books, which is
very impressive, becoming awoman of value, how to thrive in
(00:49):
life and love and choice pointsin dating, empowering women to
make healthier decisions in loveand love at last, true stories
of falling in love later inlife. She's also the host of two
popular podcasts, last firstdate radio and the woman of
value podcast, and she believesit's never too late to have the
(01:12):
life and love you want welcome,Sandy. We are so happy to have
you, and I cannot wait to diginto this conversation.
Sandy Weiner (01:22):
I'm so excited to be here and share all the stuff
Colette Fehr (01:26):
I wondered at first I listened to your TED
Talk. It was so good, and youshared your story, I wonder if
you could share a little bit ofthat with us. What led you to
get into this line of work?
Sandy Weiner (01:39):
Yeah, and you don't wake up when you're five
years old thinking I'm going tobe a dating coach one day. I
really got into this fieldbecause I struggled so much with
relationships. And I think manyof us get into helping fields,
helping professions, because ofour own story. For me, I watched
(02:01):
my parents go through a reallybad marriage with terrible
communication, and nobody talkedabout feelings, and I just was
kind of flying by the seat of mypants. And right before I met
the man who became my husband, Ifell madly in love with a man
who, it turned out, was notinterested in me, but we were we
(02:23):
were friends for a very longtime, and I thought it was
getting closer and closer to arelationship. We did everything
together, and I talk about thisin my TED talk, and I was
shocked to find out that he wasengaged to somebody else. So
this also speaks to my lack ofcommunication skills. I would
just kind of take those littlebreadcrumbs and hope that they
(02:47):
would turn it into a loaf ofbread. And after that, I shut my
heart down. I just said, I'mgoing to use my head and not my
heart to choose a spouse. And Iwas getting to that age, you
know, closer to 30, where Ithought my ovaries were gonna
completely expire, and I gotthat time clock kick ticking,
and I chose the first man whoproposed to me, who seemed to be
(03:12):
madly in love with me, and Ithought that would keep my heart
safe. And it did not shocker.
Spoiler Exactly. Spoiler alert,I just didn't really know what I
was doing. And I you know, we wehad a lot of crisis in our
marriage, and it was just theway we handled crisis was
completely different from eachother. Just talking to my son
(03:35):
about our parenting styles werecompletely opposite, opposed,
and it was not a fun marriage.
And I stayed for 23 years, andfinally left. And when I left, I
had found I need to reflameparts of me that have been lost
along the way, and one of thoseparts was the ability to connect
(03:59):
deeply with people. I was knownas that person my whole life,
and I studied a little bit ofart therapy in college because I
was an artist primarily, and Ididn't like the program. I felt
very interpretive, like we wereinterpreting for the people, and
I am much more of a believerthat we provide skills and
(04:19):
people interpret for themselves,and that's why coaching spoke to
me so when I found that it waslike great fit and I didn't dive
right into dating andrelationship coaching, it was
more midlife transition, and Iwas helping men and women
transition into this part oftheir lives, and whether it was
empty nest or finding A newcareer, and then I kind of
(04:41):
stumbled upon dating becausefriends of mine were dating way
before I was after divorce andmaking a complete mess of their
lives. And I was just like,you're completely misreading
what men are saying, likethey're telling you they they're
not gonna have a relationshipwith you, and you're saying, Oh.
Do you think that means? I don'treally. I'm like, that. It means
(05:03):
what he said. So I and I waswriting profiles for people like
I just it came naturally to me,and I didn't even know it was a
career. And then after doingthis for a while, I was like,
you know, this is really animportant field. We struggle so
much with this. I struggled somuch with this, and that's
really how it became a careerfor me.
Colette Fehr (05:25):
I relate to so much of that, you know, growing
up in a house also where Ididn't witness healthy
communication, and you're notset up for a good foundation for
what to look for in a marriage.
You know, I came out of thatenvironment thinking, if there's
no discussion of anything andeveryone has a smile on their
face, then we're good. And mygod, is that the worst
perspective? So I reallyappreciate you shared with
(05:49):
listeners what you went throughin your marriages and this
evolution. What a great job. Iimagine you have a lot of fun
too, doing what you do, is thattrue?
Sandy Weiner (06:02):
I have fun. I kind of think of it as like I'm
watching my children grow. Youwatch somebody come to you with
all of these struggles, and thenat the end, they are happy with
themselves. They are better atrelationships. They have skills.
They have better relationshipswith their families, with their
(06:22):
co workers, they're now bolder,more confident. And I think the
highlight, one of the highlightsfor me recently, was coming to
Florida to officiate at thewedding of one of my clients. It
was the first time I officiated,so I watched her go from I think
I'm asexual, because that's whatmy therapist told me, because
(06:42):
I'm not attracted to anybody,too. I am madly in love with
this man, but she never wantedto go on a second date with him,
and so I said, I have toofficiate this wedding. And it
was just amazing. So you talkabout full circle coming from
that initial meeting where she'scrying to me, I'll never find
love again. I had a horriblemarriage, and we were full of
(07:05):
conflict. She had no idea how tohow to fight fair, how to do any
of the skills that we teach. Andnow they're in this beautiful,
loving relationship, and I gotto witness all of it. So, yeah,
fun and Yeah,
Laura Bowman (07:22):
amazing art, right? As you just watch people
believe in themselves and thencreate lives that are worth
having. What's I mean, I see alot of women at midlife who are
very I mean, especially if youhaven't dated since you were
young, it throws you back to avery vulnerable place, like,
what is the typical client thatyou that you work with? Or is
(07:45):
every story hyper unique? Or isthere sort of a core client you
have?
Sandy Weiner (07:52):
I attract a lot of anxiously attached people. I
attract a lot of people who havebeen people pleasers,
Colette Fehr (08:02):
anything about that
Sandy Weiner (08:03):
I know, really overachievers, perfectionists,
you know, focused a lot on workand forgot to focus on love or
didn't know how to I've hadpeople who came from really,
really damaging beginnings, somepeople who are never married. It
(08:24):
really runs the gamut. And Istarted coaching men a few years
ago too. So I've had a lot ofwidowed men and women and people
who don't even know how to getstarted. A lot of people have
this misconception that ifyou're widowed, you don't have a
lot of damage, like you had aperfect marriage, right? And
you're going to be just outthere, and it's going to be
(08:46):
super easy for you, and it'snot. It requires skills, and it
requires self knowledge and alsolooking at what happened in your
marriage that you don't want torepeat. Even if you had an
extraordinary relationship andyou really miss your partner,
there were always things that wecan do differently and better.
Colette Fehr (09:05):
Yeah, that makes sense. Let me first ask, because
we talked about this a littlebit you and I in your latest
book, where you have all thesebeautiful and interesting
stories of how couples find lovelater in life. What are some of
the surprising ways couples havemet that you've heard because I
think this gives people a lot ofhope.
Sandy Weiner (09:25):
One of my favorite stories is, think it's chapter
five, where this chanceencounter in Tuscany happened,
and this woman was a client ofmine for many years, the
loveliest, most beautiful woman,she was just not finding
connection with most people thatshe was meeting in Texas where
(09:47):
she lived, and she was holdingout for something special. So
she did all the work she had,like a file she once sent it to
me of all the things that shecompiled about best practices
and dating and relationships. Soit was really just a matter of
the. Connection with the rightperson, and she was unique. She
had was multilingual. She was aperson who was very charitable.
(10:09):
Loved to travel, and then COVIDhappened, and she couldn't
travel. So when the COVIDrestrictions opened, she went to
Italy with a friend. Somethinghappened with their hotel
reservation. It got messed up.
So they ended up in in thisbeautiful town, and they got
invited to a dinner party. Andthe dinner party, it was just a
big table. This woman used to dothese dinner parties every
(10:32):
month, and she seated her nextto this guy who spoke Italian,
and she wanted to practice hertime. She sits next to this guy,
and she said it was like abubble, like she was in this
flow of conversation. Theycouldn't stop talking. Was like
nobody else was there. You knowwhen you're when you meet
somebody and oh my god, youclick. And yeah, they really
(10:55):
clicked. And she was going backto Texas. He's a travel guide,
and he was going to be travelingall over. So they he said, Can
we keep in touch and practice,I'll practice my English, you'll
practice your Italian overSkype. So they're doing that,
and as she's getting to knowhim, and turns out he keeps
mentioning a partner, and she'slike, I don't know if this is a
(11:17):
business partner or partner,partner. So I said, just ask
him. She asked him. It turns outhe's living with this woman. So
she says, Am I crazy to keeptalking to him? I'm really
attracted to him. I feel such astrong like soul connection to
this guy. And I said, if you'reokay with him, you can let go of
attachment to the outcome. Justdo it. Who cares? Whatever
(11:40):
happens will be a good thing.
And so they continued this wayfor a number of months, and then
he invited her back to Italy,and she broke her foot. She gets
to Italy, trips and falls, endsup in the emergency room with
like a giant boot. And they'reabout to meet, and I think they
(12:01):
booked separate rooms, and hewent out that night to the
terrace, and it was pouringrain, and in the middle of the
night, he's out there, and he'slike in this meditative state,
and he comes back and he goes toher, and he says, I had this,
this epiphany last night that Ineed to break up with my partner
and be with you. Of course, it'snot simple, right? Breakups are
(12:23):
not simple. You're living with apartner. Is that simple. So I
want people to know like it'smagical and it's beautiful. It's
her dream come true that shenever would have met him had she
not had this accidental meeting.
But it took a while to iron outall the stuff. This woman was
really upset that he was leavingher, and he had to, you know,
just to break up that wholerelationship took a lot of
(12:46):
energy, mentally, physically,all of it, but she is so happy.
And that, to me, that was one ofmy favorites.
Colette Fehr (12:56):
It's like Under the Tuscan Sun, but real life
exactly. It
Laura Bowman (12:59):
can be anywhere, right? Like, find anywhere a
person can be anywhere you haveto remain open to it and
Colette Fehr (13:05):
put yourself out there. And, like I always say,
talk to strangers, be friendly,be open. I met my husband in a
similar way, you know, in arestaurant where I made an
offhand comment then offendedhim, and it turned into a whole
thing, and now 12 years later,here we are. You just don't
know, yeah, and it's soencouraging to hear other
(13:27):
stories, because I know a lot ofpeople, both from being a
therapist friends and I had 11years of being single between my
marriages, where I was out theredating, so I've done a lot of
this. I'm curious. Sandy, do youdate? Where are you in your own
trajectory with all of this?
Sandy Weiner (13:48):
Yeah, so when I first became a dating coach, I
thought the most important thingwas that I should find my happy
ending. I'm not. I'm not talkingabout that happy ending and
love. Yeah, but I thought, youknow, you got to tie it all up
in a bow, and the only peoplewho who are trusted are people
(14:09):
who are in happy relationships.
And the truth is, I date. I'vebeen in relationships, but I'm
not settling this time around.
And it gets harder as you getolder. To be honest, I'm 68 it's
not like when I was 48 I'mlooking for somebody who adds
value to my life, and I addvalue to his. And a lot of the
(14:30):
people I meet just haven't donework on themselves. They are
really stuck, very victimy,boring. I'm a pretty active I
mean, I'm still reinventingmyself every day, and I'm
putting myself out there in manyways, both meeting people in
(14:51):
real life and meeting themonline. And I'm open in so many
ways to how I'm going to meetthem. To who I'm going to need,
but it's it's not always asimple process, and I'm okay
with it, but I am actively doingall the things I talk to people
about doing,
Colette Fehr (15:11):
and I think that's great that you are I think it
makes a lot of sense that you'regoing through. You have your
professional knowledge, butyou're also walking the walk.
I'm also curious, what do youthink about and do you have any
tips for our listeners on onlinedating? What's the latest on all
that? Because I hear a lot oflike frustration.
Sandy Weiner (15:32):
It has become even more frustrating than it was
when I started after my divorce.
So about 14 years ago, I don'tthink there were really apps
back then, there were justdating sites, and I had this
idea I was going to take out aprofile, and then I was going to
have, like, a million mencontact me and be so
overwhelming, just like Ithought, I would start a website
(15:52):
and a blog, and I'd have 1000comments, and I'd have to be
online all day dealing withthat. So none of that. It
happens. You have to have areally thick skin, I think
number one. But there are skillsinvolved. And I teach a course
called Find love online after 40it's actually starting again
October 30. It's a four weekclass. We start with, what are
(16:16):
your fears? What's getting inthe way of dating in general,
and then I help them write aprofile that's going to work
what people write. I mean, Ihave seen the worst online
dating profiles where peoplewill say, I am petite and
pretty, like, first of all, letpeople use their eyes to decide
(16:37):
if you're pretty. That's notwhat you put in your profile.
You put in the things that makeyou unique, the qualities you're
looking for in a partner, whoyou are and what you want. And
I've seen profiles where it'sall about I'm great, and I do
all these wonderful things forpeople. I give massages, I make
good chicken soup. And Iremember this one woman, and she
(17:01):
was like, everything was allabout giving and doing. And I
said, What kind of men have youbeen attracting? And they were
all takers, duh. So I said, youhaven't written one word about
what your requirements are, whatyou need in a partner. And so we
need both. We need to know howto message effectively. We need
to know how to get off of textand onto a phone call, onto a
(17:24):
date. We need to know how toopen up our preferences so we're
not just dating people in a fivemile radius, and we're open to
people who are shorter than wethink we need, and maybe a
different race than youconsidered, you know, when you
really boil it down to what arethe must haves and deal
breakers, then everything elseopens up. And, you know, and
(17:47):
knowing how to make that list.
So I do that in the course also,and tons of other great
information
Laura Bowman (17:56):
I would need that course, because I've been, you
know, the person that's been in,like, a 24 year marriage. And
if, I mean, I can't even imaginedating like that is so
terrifying to me, and I'm suchan introvert that I think
Colette would have to, like,drag me somewhere and be like,
you're gonna talk to peoplelike,
Colette Fehr (18:15):
man, the crap out of you. Don't know
Laura Bowman (18:17):
that actually would be, like, semi fun just to
like. But here's the thing, onething that Colette and I talk a
lot about, or what we see, isthat as women get older, a lot
of them, very many of themdefinitely want a good partner
who's additive to their life,but a lot of women are really
very comfortable on their ownwith their groups of friends,
(18:40):
living their best life. Are youseeing that trend that a lot of
women get to a place that it'slike, if a partner is an
additive, they're really notparticularly interested? Yes,
Sandy Weiner (18:52):
I see a lot of women like that. I fall into
that category. You have to justlook at the fine line between.
Am I doing this because I'mafraid there aren't any people,
or I haven't dated in so longthat I don't want to put myself
back out there, I don't want toget hurt. So I will get a dog
and get lots of friends and havemy pickleball and whatever else
(19:17):
people do at this stage in life,which I've never done, as long
as you're not doing it becauseyou're afraid, yeah, then and
you're doing it from a place oflove and choice, that's great. I
think what I worry about is thepeople who are petrified to date
and or they've gotten hurt somany times, they're like, Yeah,
I'm fine, and we're closed onthe process, yeah, and they may
(19:41):
not know what it would be liketo be in a healthy partnership,
because very few people havebeen and so if you've had a
really rough relationshiphistory, then why would you want
to be in a relationship? Youcan't even picture a partnership
that would be healthy and.
Nourishing and wonderful and addvalue to your life. So I think
(20:01):
people just need to look at thatand just and just see where
their choice is coming from. And
Colette Fehr (20:09):
I imagine you also see a lot of people who are
fearful because it is so scaryto put your heart out there. And
by this stage of life, we, mostof us, have been hurt, at least
if we're dating again, right?
And that relational pain is sodeep, it's so hard, it's so easy
for married friends to say, Oh,you got to get back out there.
(20:30):
And they don't know what itfeels like to be in those shoes.
Are there particular obstaclesthat you see come up, that
people really need to overcome,and I imagine you help them work
on in terms of finding lastinglove
Sandy Weiner (20:48):
Absolutely. So I think we'll start with mindset.
If you don't have a growthmindset and you have a really
fixed mindset about this is,this is what happened. This will
happen again. It's just the wayit is. My parents were messed
up, so I'm messed up and yadayada yada. That stops you cold
(21:12):
from moving forward. So mindsetis number one. Like really look
at where those beliefs camefrom, where you're limiting,
ideas, thoughts, beliefs,actions, begin and work on that.
The other thing is, look atwhatever choices you've made,
look at the patterns that youhave, and try to find the
(21:36):
commonalities. So we alwayslike, you know, connect the
dots. I look at people'srelationship history and the
fact that they've ignored RedFlags over and over and over
again, but they're all the samered flags, like they showed up
early on, but we pushed themdown, hoped that somehow they
would change with it's a lot ofthat wishful thinking, fantasy
(21:59):
love story that we create solike, really get honest with
yourself, know yourself and seewhat you have decided is the
perfect partner for you, thetype which is usually wrong for
you, the distance issue. Like,we have one couple in the book,
(22:20):
who met when she was in Floridaand he was in Uruguay. And they
met over zoom, 100 hours oftalking on Zoom until he came
back to Florida, where hissecond home was. They were like
snow birds, and he had thesecond home, and it was a big
risk, but they got to know eachother really well, because they
(22:41):
were both open.
Colette Fehr (22:42):
So what would you tell somebody to say, like,
what's the casual way you coachpeople women to ask a man out or
ask another woman out?
Sandy Weiner (22:51):
So let's say you meet somebody in the gym. You
have a crush on somebody, butyou don't really know anything
about them. You could ask themto help you learn how to use a
piece of equipment. You couldsay, Hey, I'm going out for
coffee after I need to getcaffeinated up. Would you like
to join me? You know, if it'ssomebody like one of my clients
(23:12):
met a guy in a park, and theyexchanged numbers, and it was a
very casual, non romantic kindof connection, but she would
like to go on a date with him.
So I said you could send him atext that says something like, I
just discovered a new, reallycool coffee shop. Would you like
to join me on Saturday for a cupof coffee? Just it's low risk.
(23:34):
You know, it's not like, Pleasemarry me. I don't think about
Laura Bowman (23:42):
you as you're saying that I'm already, like, a
little blended with my oldtropes of, like, what men should
do and what women should do, andthat that I've, I've been
coached in my own brain that,like, men are the pursuers, and
you let men pursue. I'm sure youhear and the women. I think we
even have, like, a big nugget oflike, pick me energy, like, Do
(24:05):
you like me? Like, am I wanted?
Like, that's so much of whatshows up in dating. Like, am I
enough? That's what's on theline. But as we get older, are
we allowed to be a lot moreirreverent about this? Do these
things have to, like, fall away?
Sandy Weiner (24:21):
We're allowed to.
I encourage people to be I thinkwe have to really look at so
many it's that's one of thelimiting beliefs, in my opinion,
that men are the pursuers. Imean, most men love when a woman
asks them out. And I encouragemy female clients to make the
first move everywhere onlinedating. Why be passive in your
dating life when you're notpassive everywhere else? I love
(24:44):
it. It's so true, though, andit's a lot of women push back,
and then they're the women whodo too much, you know, who are
like, I'm paying for you, andthen they get mad at the man for
not offering. I mean, it's we'restill living in this. Kind of in
between period where we had theME TOO movement. So men are
afraid to make first moves, butthen women don't like it,
(25:06):
because they want a man to takethem and show them that they
really care. And and I've hadmen ask permission. I had a man
ask if he could pay. Is it okayif I pay? And I'm like, Wow,
I've never had a man ask methat. I mean, just so that's
what we we're living. I'm like,Yeah, I love to be treated. I
(25:26):
mean, I think we have to reallylook at like, do I really feel
this way? Or is this just an oldbelief that society put on me
for my whole life?
Colette Fehr (25:37):
Yeah, I'm more afraid of rejection because
we're human, but once you do itand you experience some you
realize it isn't going to killyou,
Sandy Weiner (25:46):
people are looking for that easy, easy thing to oh,
let me follow the rules. So ifthis didn't work for me in the
past, and now I'm going to acthard to get men are going to be
more interested in me. And it'snot true at all, and it's really
ruined a lot of people's datinglife because it's so
(26:06):
manipulative, and it doesencourage people to have a lot
more anxiety, to have thatavoidant, anxious dance, because
everybody's always pushing andpulling and nobody's being true
to themselves. So I'm all aboutauthenticity, and bring your
best self, but don't, don't dumpyour entire life out, because
(26:27):
that's your true self. You know,learn to have a filter. Learn,
learn how to present your lifein a way that is skilled, but
don't fake who you are.
Colette Fehr (26:37):
I love that authenticity is the key
Absolutely. I
Sandy Weiner (26:40):
mean, I think the more you work on yourself and
the more securely attached youbecome, the more you're turned
off by these stupid games. Andyou know, where that person who
has a narcissistic tendencies,who reminds you of your father
or your mother, it doesn't workanymore. It's like, all of a
sudden you realize, okay, maybethey're still attractive to me,
(27:03):
but I'm not attracted to them inthe same way that I used to be,
and I will not get involved in arelationship with someone like
this anymore, because, you knowbetter.
Laura Bowman (27:14):
So okay, so just imagine, just for our listener,
like one of our listeners, saythey're out of a marriage, long
term marriage, and they'regetting ready to date. What are
some of like in your mind, theprerequisite skills that a
person may need to take the timeto really develop before they're
ready to be out there dating,
Sandy Weiner (27:34):
I would say after, you develop the you know, the
knowledge of your past historypatterns, hearing your
attachment style, but reallyknowing all those parts of you.
The next step to me is knowingyour values and knowing how you
operate. I give my clientssomething I call an operating
manual, and I have them fill itout for themselves so that they
(27:56):
can really take a deeper lookinto how they function on a few
key categories that will come upin the dating world. So the
first one is your day to day.
Are you a morning person? Areyou a night person? Are you what
kind of food do you eat? Youknow, just the kind of practical
and then, are you an introvert,extrovert? You know, those are
(28:17):
things that are important toknow and also to talk about when
you're dating, because I hadclients who were very
introverted needed a lot ofdowntime when they were on
vacation with a partner, butdidn't claim it because they
felt it was too needy. So owningthat, owning Hey, I'm going to
need a couple of hours ofdowntime when we're away. What
do you need having thoseconversations. So the next part
(28:40):
is your values, right? What areyour values? What? What is
really core to who you are, thatyou may have given up in other
relationships, that you're notgoing to give up in
relationships in the future. Andso you protect those values with
boundaries, with communicationskills. And so I teach all of
those and to bring stuff upwhen, when something is hurtful,
(29:05):
to bring it up right away, toget curious. Curiosity is like
my magic word. People jump toconclusion about everything all
the time that must mean this,and this person did this, and
that's why this happened, dude,we don't know. And so I
encourage all of our listenerswho are dating to ask questions.
Laura Bowman (29:28):
I love the part about knowing your operating
system and being willing toclaim it. Think everybody should
do that inventory and be able tocommunicate it. Yeah, own
Sandy Weiner (29:39):
it. Don't prioritize somebody else's needs
over your own, because it willhurt you every single time. And
that goes for people who areraising young children who never
take time for themselves. Itgoes for people who you know
don't exercise every day, ordon't eat healthy, like if you I
had a client who meditated everymorning, but when she. Was in a
(30:00):
relationship, she gave it up andstarted feeling horrible. And I
said, you need to talk to theman you're dating and tell him
that you're going to need acertain amount of time in the
morning to meditate. That's it.
I respect people who knowthemselves. I love when somebody
says I'm going to need to take abreak during the day because I'm
overwhelmed. Please do thatinstead of taking it out on me
(30:22):
exactly.
Colette Fehr (30:26):
And it's just, it's mature, it's self loving,
and it also lets a partner knowwho you are and where your
boundaries are. And it's soimportant, because that's going
to have to continue throughoutthe relationship Absolutely,
Yep, yeah. So that said, Sandy,what are some of the secrets to
(30:47):
making love? Last
Sandy Weiner (30:49):
from your perspective, well, each chapter
in my book has love lessons. Iasked all of the couples to
share what makes theirrelationship work, I summarize
all of them at the end of thebook and put them in categories.
Of the first category was selfimprovement and reflection. You
really have to take the time toknow yourself like we've been
(31:13):
talking about, become a higherversion of yourself so that
you're out there dating withmore emotional maturity, with a
lot of self knowledge, and justlook at those habits that have
formed and question them. Thesecond category was attitude and
perspective. And so beingpositive and hopeful. I think a
(31:36):
lot of people just give up hope.
And they also rush in. They rusha relationship. And so that's
really important not to rush,because when you rush, you try
to hurry things along thatusually crashes and burns. Also,
don't judge somebody after afirst date. I think those first
date sparks are such a terriblething that we've been taught
(31:57):
that we're going to feel it andwe're going to know it and and
our type is the right person.
And all of these people datedoutside of their type, pretty
much. So be open to thosesurprises. Get some relationship
skills. You know, those arereally important, and know who's
compatible. You know, don't justlook for chemistry. So many
(32:21):
people focus so much onchemistry that they forget about
compatibility. And chemistry isfleeting. Compatibility is what
builds chemistry and makes itcontinue to flourish and grow.
So
Laura Bowman (32:32):
your message to like a woman who's like, Ah, I
dated that like I went on a datewith him, and like my mother
always says, I can't gethorizontal with that man. You
know, that sort of thing. Ican't get horizontal with him. I
mean, is that, do you encouragepeople to go on a couple more
dates and just remain open or,like, where do you, you know,
use your intuition aroundchemistry?
Sandy Weiner (32:55):
Yeah. So if you can't imagine ever kissing or
getting horizontal withsomebody, ever, like, in here
turned off completely. Yeah,yeah, don't go on another date.
Like, okay, there. There arereasons for that too. You know,
conversation is stilted. It'snot in flow. The person was on
their phone during the day.
Like, whatever it's it's justnot gonna work for you. But if
(33:16):
the person has some of your musthaves no apparent deal breakers.
There's some attraction youcould imagine maybe kissing this
person. Maybe one day. Maybeit's a five out of 10. Give them
another chance. This weddingthat I officiated, she
absolutely would never have goneon a second date. She was like,
(33:38):
I'm not attracted to him, butshe was never attracted to
anyone. And so the second date,she was like, he was asking her.
He tried to hold her hand, andshe pulled it away, and then he
said, Are you even looking for arelationship? And she said,
yeah. What? Like, what's wrongwith this guy? Why is he talking
to me about relationships? Ijust met him. He's pushy. He's
too, you know. So her mothersaid, talk to him, tell him to
(34:02):
slow down. Tell him you needmore time, you know. So there
was a connection. He saw thepotential in her, which he was
the most patient, incredibleman, because she like she was
giving him every sign that shewas going to run away and but I
do think that if there's someconnection, give it a chance.
Don't give it 20 dates, give ittwo or three and see connection
(34:25):
grows, because kindness isreally sexy. Somebody who shows
up is sexy. You know, people whofollow through and are
consistent and start to buildtrust, people who listen well
and don't just can take thewhole conversation and make it
about themselves. I mean, youknow, and if you're having fun
(34:48):
and enjoying it, just keep goingand see what happens.
Colette Fehr (34:54):
Yeah, and that's exactly what I did with my
husband in that, you know. Whenhe asked for my number, we had
spent this evening talking forhours and hours and hours, but
there was no he was not my typeat all. In terms of the kind of
guy I was, historically would gofor. I thought he was a nice
(35:14):
looking man, but he wasn'tsomebody that I would have
automatically dated when I wasyounger, certainly. And there
was no I was used to men reallykind of coming on strong, and it
having a big chemistry, and alsoit being very clear that a man
was interested in me sexually.
So I didn't get any of that frommy husband. And in fact, to the
(35:39):
point where I thought, does hejust, like, want a therapist,
or, like, a divorce buddy, or,you know, I didn't even know if
he was interested in me, becausethere was none of that kind of
flirtatiousness. And when heasked for my number, I really
thought he just wanted a friend.
And what I later found out wasthat he thought I would never be
(36:00):
interested in him, and that, youknow, he didn't really have a
shot with me, but that maybe wecould be friends, but he
summoned the courage up to,like, ask me out. And over time,
the very qualities you'repointing to that he showed
himself to be reliable andtrustworthy, and, you know,
(36:22):
listened and was very acceptingthose things, especially as we
get older and we get healthier,those things are very
attractive,
Sandy Weiner (36:30):
yeah, and I love that story, because you gave him
a chance, he gave you a chance.
And it didn't happen with thegiant fireworks and sparks. And
I like the slow build. I thinkthat it's much more trustworthy.
And I think that, again, therewas a reason you kept coming
back for more. I had arelationship like that where he
(36:52):
was really slow to make a move,and I'm like, Hey, I'm here. I'm
interested. And, you know, onceI talked to him about I wanted
to be exclusive with him, hebecause that was the first time
I ever did that too. He waslike, I'm all in. And he had to
cancel a date that he had. Ididn't even know he was dating
other people, but you have toassume people are dating others,
(37:14):
until you have that conversationwith them. And so women can make
that have that conversation aswell as men like Take, take, be
bold. Make, make yours. In fact,that
Colette Fehr (37:27):
is what I did with my husband. I finally was the
one, because every time I hungout with him, you're right, I
there was a reason. I was comingback, and I started to like him
more and more, and I had toreally be the one to like make
the first move. Good for you. Itwas too freaked out. Yeah, I
love it so i And I love the ideaof just giving everyone
(37:48):
permission to go with your gut,be authentic. You really can't
lose if you're doing that, youmay get disappointed, you may
get hurt, and you'll be able tohandle it, and it will give you
more confidence as you handleit, and everything leads you
toward the person that is gonnawork. You know, all the little
(38:10):
missteps along the way, ordisappointments, they're all
grist for the mill.
Sandy Weiner (38:16):
Yeah, and learn from them. Like, really take
them in and learn from them,because they will lead you there
if you take it in and say, Okay,that didn't work that time. And
I'm going to course correct andright. I remember, when I first
started dating, I would totallyfall for potential, like every
man, oh, my god, I'd be talkingto them on the phone. Oh, there
(38:38):
were like, That's Martin, that'smy person, and then I meet in
person and go, Oh, my, what wasI thinking? Because there was
zero chemistry, and I had builta fantasy in my head. And we do
this so often. We wanted to workso badly that we're just
building something, this fakesomething in our heads. And it's
(38:59):
that those highs and lows cankill you, and so don't do that
like learn from that and learnwhat you need to be at the pace
that works for you. I think weall have to really check in with
ourselves. That's
Colette Fehr (39:13):
such good advice.
Oh my gosh, Sandy, thank you.
And before we let you go, pleasetell our listeners how they can
connect with you and find yourbooks and your podcasts and all
that good stuff. Well,
Sandy Weiner (39:26):
this has just been a fantastic conversation. Thank
you. You can find me at lastfirst date.com and I have a tab
that says courses and books, andit's all my courses, both live
and DIY, and at the bottom ofthat page are links to all my
books, to I have tons ofprograms, lots of blog posts,
(39:48):
over 1000 I have a YouTubechannel, Instagram. Just
connect. Let's connect. Sandy,thank you
Colette Fehr (39:56):
again. This has been wonderful, and I. I can't
wait to connect further. I'm soglad to have met you and for our
listeners, thanks so much forjoining us for another episode
of insights from the couch.
Don't forget to share with yourfriends who may benefit from
this content and leave us areview, and we'll see you next
week.
Unknown (40:17):
Thanks guys. You
Sandy, welcome back to insights from the couch
(00:05):
mental health at midlife. Wehave a fabulous guest today,
Sandy Weiner, who is here withus to talk about dating at
midlife and beyond, and findinglove at this stage of life,
which we're all very optimisticabout. Sandy leaner is the chief
love officer. I love that atlast first date. She's an
(00:27):
internationally known TEDxspeaker, dating and relationship
coach, author and podcast host.
Her approach to coaching isholistic, encompassing a hybrid
mix of life coaching, neurolinguistic programming and non
violent communication. She's theauthor of three books, which is
very impressive, becoming awoman of value, how to thrive in
(00:49):
life and love and choice pointsin dating, empowering women to
make healthier decisions in loveand love at last, true stories
of falling in love later inlife. She's also the host of two
popular podcasts, last firstdate radio and the woman of
value podcast, and she believesit's never too late to have the
(01:12):
life and love you want welcome,Sandy. We are so happy to have
you, and I cannot wait to diginto this conversation.
Sandy Weiner (01:22):
I'm so excited to be here and share all the stuff
Colette Fehr (01:26):
I wondered at first I listened to your TED
Talk. It was so good, and youshared your story, I wonder if
you could share a little bit ofthat with us. What led you to
get into this line of work?
Sandy Weiner (01:39):
Yeah, and you don't wake up when you're five
years old thinking I'm going tobe a dating coach one day. I
really got into this fieldbecause I struggled so much with
relationships. And I think manyof us get into helping fields,
helping professions, because ofour own story. For me, I watched
(02:01):
my parents go through a reallybad marriage with terrible
communication, and nobody talkedabout feelings, and I just was
kind of flying by the seat of mypants. And right before I met
the man who became my husband, Ifell madly in love with a man
who, it turned out, was notinterested in me, but we were we
(02:23):
were friends for a very longtime, and I thought it was
getting closer and closer to arelationship. We did everything
together, and I talk about thisin my TED talk, and I was
shocked to find out that he wasengaged to somebody else. So
this also speaks to my lack ofcommunication skills. I would
just kind of take those littlebreadcrumbs and hope that they
(02:47):
would turn it into a loaf ofbread. And after that, I shut my
heart down. I just said, I'mgoing to use my head and not my
heart to choose a spouse. And Iwas getting to that age, you
know, closer to 30, where Ithought my ovaries were gonna
completely expire, and I gotthat time clock kick ticking,
and I chose the first man whoproposed to me, who seemed to be
(03:12):
madly in love with me, and Ithought that would keep my heart
safe. And it did not shocker.
Spoiler Exactly. Spoiler alert,I just didn't really know what I
was doing. And I you know, we wehad a lot of crisis in our
marriage, and it was just theway we handled crisis was
completely different from eachother. Just talking to my son
(03:35):
about our parenting styles werecompletely opposite, opposed,
and it was not a fun marriage.
And I stayed for 23 years, andfinally left. And when I left, I
had found I need to reflameparts of me that have been lost
along the way, and one of thoseparts was the ability to connect
(03:59):
deeply with people. I was knownas that person my whole life,
and I studied a little bit ofart therapy in college because I
was an artist primarily, and Ididn't like the program. I felt
very interpretive, like we wereinterpreting for the people, and
I am much more of a believerthat we provide skills and
(04:19):
people interpret for themselves,and that's why coaching spoke to
me so when I found that it waslike great fit and I didn't dive
right into dating andrelationship coaching, it was
more midlife transition, and Iwas helping men and women
transition into this part oftheir lives, and whether it was
empty nest or finding A newcareer, and then I kind of
(04:41):
stumbled upon dating becausefriends of mine were dating way
before I was after divorce andmaking a complete mess of their
lives. And I was just like,you're completely misreading
what men are saying, likethey're telling you they they're
not gonna have a relationshipwith you, and you're saying, Oh.
Do you think that means? I don'treally. I'm like, that. It means
(05:03):
what he said. So I and I waswriting profiles for people like
I just it came naturally to me,and I didn't even know it was a
career. And then after doingthis for a while, I was like,
you know, this is really animportant field. We struggle so
much with this. I struggled somuch with this, and that's
really how it became a careerfor me.
Colette Fehr (05:25):
I relate to so much of that, you know, growing
up in a house also where Ididn't witness healthy
communication, and you're notset up for a good foundation for
what to look for in a marriage.
You know, I came out of thatenvironment thinking, if there's
no discussion of anything andeveryone has a smile on their
face, then we're good. And mygod, is that the worst
perspective? So I reallyappreciate you shared with
(05:49):
listeners what you went throughin your marriages and this
evolution. What a great job. Iimagine you have a lot of fun
too, doing what you do, is thattrue?
Sandy Weiner (06:02):
I have fun. I kind of think of it as like I'm
watching my children grow. Youwatch somebody come to you with
all of these struggles, and thenat the end, they are happy with
themselves. They are better atrelationships. They have skills.
They have better relationshipswith their families, with their
(06:22):
co workers, they're now bolder,more confident. And I think the
highlight, one of the highlightsfor me recently, was coming to
Florida to officiate at thewedding of one of my clients. It
was the first time I officiated,so I watched her go from I think
I'm asexual, because that's whatmy therapist told me, because
(06:42):
I'm not attracted to anybody,too. I am madly in love with
this man, but she never wantedto go on a second date with him,
and so I said, I have toofficiate this wedding. And it
was just amazing. So you talkabout full circle coming from
that initial meeting where she'scrying to me, I'll never find
love again. I had a horriblemarriage, and we were full of
(07:05):
conflict. She had no idea how tohow to fight fair, how to do any
of the skills that we teach. Andnow they're in this beautiful,
loving relationship, and I gotto witness all of it. So, yeah,
fun and Yeah,
Laura Bowman (07:22):
amazing art, right? As you just watch people
believe in themselves and thencreate lives that are worth
having. What's I mean, I see alot of women at midlife who are
very I mean, especially if youhaven't dated since you were
young, it throws you back to avery vulnerable place, like,
what is the typical client thatyou that you work with? Or is
(07:45):
every story hyper unique? Or isthere sort of a core client you
have?
Sandy Weiner (07:52):
I attract a lot of anxiously attached people. I
attract a lot of people who havebeen people pleasers,
Colette Fehr (08:02):
anything about that
Sandy Weiner (08:03):
I know, really overachievers, perfectionists,
you know, focused a lot on workand forgot to focus on love or
didn't know how to I've hadpeople who came from really,
really damaging beginnings, somepeople who are never married. It
(08:24):
really runs the gamut. And Istarted coaching men a few years
ago too. So I've had a lot ofwidowed men and women and people
who don't even know how to getstarted. A lot of people have
this misconception that ifyou're widowed, you don't have a
lot of damage, like you had aperfect marriage, right? And
you're going to be just outthere, and it's going to be
(08:46):
super easy for you, and it'snot. It requires skills, and it
requires self knowledge and alsolooking at what happened in your
marriage that you don't want torepeat. Even if you had an
extraordinary relationship andyou really miss your partner,
there were always things that wecan do differently and better.
Colette Fehr (09:05):
Yeah, that makes sense. Let me first ask, because
we talked about this a littlebit you and I in your latest
book, where you have all thesebeautiful and interesting
stories of how couples find lovelater in life. What are some of
the surprising ways couples havemet that you've heard because I
think this gives people a lot ofhope.
Sandy Weiner (09:25):
One of my favorite stories is, think it's chapter
five, where this chanceencounter in Tuscany happened,
and this woman was a client ofmine for many years, the
loveliest, most beautiful woman,she was just not finding
connection with most people thatshe was meeting in Texas where
(09:47):
she lived, and she was holdingout for something special. So
she did all the work she had,like a file she once sent it to
me of all the things that shecompiled about best practices
and dating and relationships. Soit was really just a matter of
the. Connection with the rightperson, and she was unique. She
had was multilingual. She was aperson who was very charitable.
(10:09):
Loved to travel, and then COVIDhappened, and she couldn't
travel. So when the COVIDrestrictions opened, she went to
Italy with a friend. Somethinghappened with their hotel
reservation. It got messed up.
So they ended up in in thisbeautiful town, and they got
invited to a dinner party. Andthe dinner party, it was just a
big table. This woman used to dothese dinner parties every
(10:32):
month, and she seated her nextto this guy who spoke Italian,
and she wanted to practice hertime. She sits next to this guy,
and she said it was like abubble, like she was in this
flow of conversation. Theycouldn't stop talking. Was like
nobody else was there. You knowwhen you're when you meet
somebody and oh my god, youclick. And yeah, they really
(10:55):
clicked. And she was going backto Texas. He's a travel guide,
and he was going to be travelingall over. So they he said, Can
we keep in touch and practice,I'll practice my English, you'll
practice your Italian overSkype. So they're doing that,
and as she's getting to knowhim, and turns out he keeps
mentioning a partner, and she'slike, I don't know if this is a
(11:17):
business partner or partner,partner. So I said, just ask
him. She asked him. It turns outhe's living with this woman. So
she says, Am I crazy to keeptalking to him? I'm really
attracted to him. I feel such astrong like soul connection to
this guy. And I said, if you'reokay with him, you can let go of
attachment to the outcome. Justdo it. Who cares? Whatever
(11:40):
happens will be a good thing.
And so they continued this wayfor a number of months, and then
he invited her back to Italy,and she broke her foot. She gets
to Italy, trips and falls, endsup in the emergency room with
like a giant boot. And they'reabout to meet, and I think they
(12:01):
booked separate rooms, and hewent out that night to the
terrace, and it was pouringrain, and in the middle of the
night, he's out there, and he'slike in this meditative state,
and he comes back and he goes toher, and he says, I had this,
this epiphany last night that Ineed to break up with my partner
and be with you. Of course, it'snot simple, right? Breakups are
(12:23):
not simple. You're living with apartner. Is that simple. So I
want people to know like it'smagical and it's beautiful. It's
her dream come true that shenever would have met him had she
not had this accidental meeting.
But it took a while to iron outall the stuff. This woman was
really upset that he was leavingher, and he had to, you know,
just to break up that wholerelationship took a lot of
(12:46):
energy, mentally, physically,all of it, but she is so happy.
And that, to me, that was one ofmy favorites.
Colette Fehr (12:56):
It's like Under the Tuscan Sun, but real life
exactly. It
Laura Bowman (12:59):
can be anywhere, right? Like, find anywhere a
person can be anywhere you haveto remain open to it and
Colette Fehr (13:05):
put yourself out there. And, like I always say,
talk to strangers, be friendly,be open. I met my husband in a
similar way, you know, in arestaurant where I made an
offhand comment then offendedhim, and it turned into a whole
thing, and now 12 years later,here we are. You just don't
know, yeah, and it's soencouraging to hear other
(13:27):
stories, because I know a lot ofpeople, both from being a
therapist friends and I had 11years of being single between my
marriages, where I was out theredating, so I've done a lot of
this. I'm curious. Sandy, do youdate? Where are you in your own
trajectory with all of this?
Sandy Weiner (13:48):
Yeah, so when I first became a dating coach, I
thought the most important thingwas that I should find my happy
ending. I'm not. I'm not talkingabout that happy ending and
love. Yeah, but I thought, youknow, you got to tie it all up
in a bow, and the only peoplewho who are trusted are people
(14:09):
who are in happy relationships.
And the truth is, I date. I'vebeen in relationships, but I'm
not settling this time around.
And it gets harder as you getolder. To be honest, I'm 68 it's
not like when I was 48 I'mlooking for somebody who adds
value to my life, and I addvalue to his. And a lot of the
(14:30):
people I meet just haven't donework on themselves. They are
really stuck, very victimy,boring. I'm a pretty active I
mean, I'm still reinventingmyself every day, and I'm
putting myself out there in manyways, both meeting people in
(14:51):
real life and meeting themonline. And I'm open in so many
ways to how I'm going to meetthem. To who I'm going to need,
but it's it's not always asimple process, and I'm okay
with it, but I am actively doingall the things I talk to people
about doing,
Colette Fehr (15:11):
and I think that's great that you are I think it
makes a lot of sense that you'regoing through. You have your
professional knowledge, butyou're also walking the walk.
I'm also curious, what do youthink about and do you have any
tips for our listeners on onlinedating? What's the latest on all
that? Because I hear a lot oflike frustration.
Sandy Weiner (15:32):
It has become even more frustrating than it was
when I started after my divorce.
So about 14 years ago, I don'tthink there were really apps
back then, there were justdating sites, and I had this
idea I was going to take out aprofile, and then I was going to
have, like, a million mencontact me and be so
overwhelming, just like Ithought, I would start a website
(15:52):
and a blog, and I'd have 1000comments, and I'd have to be
online all day dealing withthat. So none of that. It
happens. You have to have areally thick skin, I think
number one. But there are skillsinvolved. And I teach a course
called Find love online after 40it's actually starting again
October 30. It's a four weekclass. We start with, what are
(16:16):
your fears? What's getting inthe way of dating in general,
and then I help them write aprofile that's going to work
what people write. I mean, Ihave seen the worst online
dating profiles where peoplewill say, I am petite and
pretty, like, first of all, letpeople use their eyes to decide
(16:37):
if you're pretty. That's notwhat you put in your profile.
You put in the things that makeyou unique, the qualities you're
looking for in a partner, whoyou are and what you want. And
I've seen profiles where it'sall about I'm great, and I do
all these wonderful things forpeople. I give massages, I make
good chicken soup. And Iremember this one woman, and she
(17:01):
was like, everything was allabout giving and doing. And I
said, What kind of men have youbeen attracting? And they were
all takers, duh. So I said, youhaven't written one word about
what your requirements are, whatyou need in a partner. And so we
need both. We need to know howto message effectively. We need
to know how to get off of textand onto a phone call, onto a
(17:24):
date. We need to know how toopen up our preferences so we're
not just dating people in a fivemile radius, and we're open to
people who are shorter than wethink we need, and maybe a
different race than youconsidered, you know, when you
really boil it down to what arethe must haves and deal
breakers, then everything elseopens up. And, you know, and
(17:47):
knowing how to make that list.
So I do that in the course also,and tons of other great
information
Laura Bowman (17:56):
I would need that course, because I've been, you
know, the person that's been in,like, a 24 year marriage. And
if, I mean, I can't even imaginedating like that is so
terrifying to me, and I'm suchan introvert that I think
Colette would have to, like,drag me somewhere and be like,
you're gonna talk to peoplelike,
Colette Fehr (18:15):
man, the crap out of you. Don't know
Laura Bowman (18:17):
that actually would be, like, semi fun just to
like. But here's the thing, onething that Colette and I talk a
lot about, or what we see, isthat as women get older, a lot
of them, very many of themdefinitely want a good partner
who's additive to their life,but a lot of women are really
very comfortable on their ownwith their groups of friends,
(18:40):
living their best life. Are youseeing that trend that a lot of
women get to a place that it'slike, if a partner is an
additive, they're really notparticularly interested? Yes,
Sandy Weiner (18:52):
I see a lot of women like that. I fall into
that category. You have to justlook at the fine line between.
Am I doing this because I'mafraid there aren't any people,
or I haven't dated in so longthat I don't want to put myself
back out there, I don't want toget hurt. So I will get a dog
and get lots of friends and havemy pickleball and whatever else
(19:17):
people do at this stage in life,which I've never done, as long
as you're not doing it becauseyou're afraid, yeah, then and
you're doing it from a place oflove and choice, that's great. I
think what I worry about is thepeople who are petrified to date
and or they've gotten hurt somany times, they're like, Yeah,
I'm fine, and we're closed onthe process, yeah, and they may
(19:41):
not know what it would be liketo be in a healthy partnership,
because very few people havebeen and so if you've had a
really rough relationshiphistory, then why would you want
to be in a relationship? Youcan't even picture a partnership
that would be healthy and.
Nourishing and wonderful and addvalue to your life. So I think
(20:01):
people just need to look at thatand just and just see where
their choice is coming from. And
Colette Fehr (20:09):
I imagine you also see a lot of people who are
fearful because it is so scaryto put your heart out there. And
by this stage of life, we, mostof us, have been hurt, at least
if we're dating again, right?
And that relational pain is sodeep, it's so hard, it's so easy
for married friends to say, Oh,you got to get back out there.
(20:30):
And they don't know what itfeels like to be in those shoes.
Are there particular obstaclesthat you see come up, that
people really need to overcome,and I imagine you help them work
on in terms of finding lastinglove
Sandy Weiner (20:48):
Absolutely. So I think we'll start with mindset.
If you don't have a growthmindset and you have a really
fixed mindset about this is,this is what happened. This will
happen again. It's just the wayit is. My parents were messed
up, so I'm messed up and yadayada yada. That stops you cold
(21:12):
from moving forward. So mindsetis number one. Like really look
at where those beliefs camefrom, where you're limiting,
ideas, thoughts, beliefs,actions, begin and work on that.
The other thing is, look atwhatever choices you've made,
look at the patterns that youhave, and try to find the
(21:36):
commonalities. So we alwayslike, you know, connect the
dots. I look at people'srelationship history and the
fact that they've ignored RedFlags over and over and over
again, but they're all the samered flags, like they showed up
early on, but we pushed themdown, hoped that somehow they
would change with it's a lot ofthat wishful thinking, fantasy
(21:59):
love story that we create solike, really get honest with
yourself, know yourself and seewhat you have decided is the
perfect partner for you, thetype which is usually wrong for
you, the distance issue. Like,we have one couple in the book,
(22:20):
who met when she was in Floridaand he was in Uruguay. And they
met over zoom, 100 hours oftalking on Zoom until he came
back to Florida, where hissecond home was. They were like
snow birds, and he had thesecond home, and it was a big
risk, but they got to know eachother really well, because they
(22:41):
were both open.
Colette Fehr (22:42):
So what would you tell somebody to say, like,
what's the casual way you coachpeople women to ask a man out or
ask another woman out?
Sandy Weiner (22:51):
So let's say you meet somebody in the gym. You
have a crush on somebody, butyou don't really know anything
about them. You could ask themto help you learn how to use a
piece of equipment. You couldsay, Hey, I'm going out for
coffee after I need to getcaffeinated up. Would you like
to join me? You know, if it'ssomebody like one of my clients
(23:12):
met a guy in a park, and theyexchanged numbers, and it was a
very casual, non romantic kindof connection, but she would
like to go on a date with him.
So I said you could send him atext that says something like, I
just discovered a new, reallycool coffee shop. Would you like
to join me on Saturday for a cupof coffee? Just it's low risk.
(23:34):
You know, it's not like, Pleasemarry me. I don't think about
Laura Bowman (23:42):
you as you're saying that I'm already, like, a
little blended with my oldtropes of, like, what men should
do and what women should do, andthat that I've, I've been
coached in my own brain that,like, men are the pursuers, and
you let men pursue. I'm sure youhear and the women. I think we
even have, like, a big nugget oflike, pick me energy, like, Do
(24:05):
you like me? Like, am I wanted?
Like, that's so much of whatshows up in dating. Like, am I
enough? That's what's on theline. But as we get older, are
we allowed to be a lot moreirreverent about this? Do these
things have to, like, fall away?
Sandy Weiner (24:21):
We're allowed to.
I encourage people to be I thinkwe have to really look at so
many it's that's one of thelimiting beliefs, in my opinion,
that men are the pursuers. Imean, most men love when a woman
asks them out. And I encouragemy female clients to make the
first move everywhere onlinedating. Why be passive in your
dating life when you're notpassive everywhere else? I love
(24:44):
it. It's so true, though, andit's a lot of women push back,
and then they're the women whodo too much, you know, who are
like, I'm paying for you, andthen they get mad at the man for
not offering. I mean, it's we'restill living in this. Kind of in
between period where we had theME TOO movement. So men are
afraid to make first moves, butthen women don't like it,
(25:06):
because they want a man to takethem and show them that they
really care. And and I've hadmen ask permission. I had a man
ask if he could pay. Is it okayif I pay? And I'm like, Wow,
I've never had a man ask methat. I mean, just so that's
what we we're living. I'm like,Yeah, I love to be treated. I
(25:26):
mean, I think we have to reallylook at like, do I really feel
this way? Or is this just an oldbelief that society put on me
for my whole life?
Colette Fehr (25:37):
Yeah, I'm more afraid of rejection because
we're human, but once you do itand you experience some you
realize it isn't going to killyou,
Sandy Weiner (25:46):
people are looking for that easy, easy thing to oh,
let me follow the rules. So ifthis didn't work for me in the
past, and now I'm going to acthard to get men are going to be
more interested in me. And it'snot true at all, and it's really
ruined a lot of people's datinglife because it's so
(26:06):
manipulative, and it doesencourage people to have a lot
more anxiety, to have thatavoidant, anxious dance, because
everybody's always pushing andpulling and nobody's being true
to themselves. So I'm all aboutauthenticity, and bring your
best self, but don't, don't dumpyour entire life out, because
(26:27):
that's your true self. You know,learn to have a filter. Learn,
learn how to present your lifein a way that is skilled, but
don't fake who you are.
Colette Fehr (26:37):
I love that authenticity is the key
Absolutely. I
Sandy Weiner (26:40):
mean, I think the more you work on yourself and
the more securely attached youbecome, the more you're turned
off by these stupid games. Andyou know, where that person who
has a narcissistic tendencies,who reminds you of your father
or your mother, it doesn't workanymore. It's like, all of a
sudden you realize, okay, maybethey're still attractive to me,
(27:03):
but I'm not attracted to them inthe same way that I used to be,
and I will not get involved in arelationship with someone like
this anymore, because, you knowbetter.
Laura Bowman (27:14):
So okay, so just imagine, just for our listener,
like one of our listeners, saythey're out of a marriage, long
term marriage, and they'regetting ready to date. What are
some of like in your mind, theprerequisite skills that a
person may need to take the timeto really develop before they're
ready to be out there dating,
Sandy Weiner (27:34):
I would say after, you develop the you know, the
knowledge of your past historypatterns, hearing your
attachment style, but reallyknowing all those parts of you.
The next step to me is knowingyour values and knowing how you
operate. I give my clientssomething I call an operating
manual, and I have them fill itout for themselves so that they
(27:56):
can really take a deeper lookinto how they function on a few
key categories that will come upin the dating world. So the
first one is your day to day.
Are you a morning person? Areyou a night person? Are you what
kind of food do you eat? Youknow, just the kind of practical
and then, are you an introvert,extrovert? You know, those are
(28:17):
things that are important toknow and also to talk about when
you're dating, because I hadclients who were very
introverted needed a lot ofdowntime when they were on
vacation with a partner, butdidn't claim it because they
felt it was too needy. So owningthat, owning Hey, I'm going to
need a couple of hours ofdowntime when we're away. What
do you need having thoseconversations. So the next part
(28:40):
is your values, right? What areyour values? What? What is
really core to who you are, thatyou may have given up in other
relationships, that you're notgoing to give up in
relationships in the future. Andso you protect those values with
boundaries, with communicationskills. And so I teach all of
those and to bring stuff upwhen, when something is hurtful,
(29:05):
to bring it up right away, toget curious. Curiosity is like
my magic word. People jump toconclusion about everything all
the time that must mean this,and this person did this, and
that's why this happened, dude,we don't know. And so I
encourage all of our listenerswho are dating to ask questions.
Laura Bowman (29:28):
I love the part about knowing your operating
system and being willing toclaim it. Think everybody should
do that inventory and be able tocommunicate it. Yeah, own
Sandy Weiner (29:39):
it. Don't prioritize somebody else's needs
over your own, because it willhurt you every single time. And
that goes for people who areraising young children who never
take time for themselves. Itgoes for people who you know
don't exercise every day, ordon't eat healthy, like if you I
had a client who meditated everymorning, but when she. Was in a
(30:00):
relationship, she gave it up andstarted feeling horrible. And I
said, you need to talk to theman you're dating and tell him
that you're going to need acertain amount of time in the
morning to meditate. That's it.
I respect people who knowthemselves. I love when somebody
says I'm going to need to take abreak during the day because I'm
overwhelmed. Please do thatinstead of taking it out on me
(30:22):
exactly.
Colette Fehr (30:26):
And it's just, it's mature, it's self loving,
and it also lets a partner knowwho you are and where your
boundaries are. And it's soimportant, because that's going
to have to continue throughoutthe relationship Absolutely,
Yep, yeah. So that said, Sandy,what are some of the secrets to
(30:47):
making love? Last
Sandy Weiner (30:49):
from your perspective, well, each chapter
in my book has love lessons. Iasked all of the couples to
share what makes theirrelationship work, I summarize
all of them at the end of thebook and put them in categories.
Of the first category was selfimprovement and reflection. You
really have to take the time toknow yourself like we've been
(31:13):
talking about, become a higherversion of yourself so that
you're out there dating withmore emotional maturity, with a
lot of self knowledge, and justlook at those habits that have
formed and question them. Thesecond category was attitude and
perspective. And so beingpositive and hopeful. I think a
(31:36):
lot of people just give up hope.
And they also rush in. They rusha relationship. And so that's
really important not to rush,because when you rush, you try
to hurry things along thatusually crashes and burns. Also,
don't judge somebody after afirst date. I think those first
date sparks are such a terriblething that we've been taught
(31:57):
that we're going to feel it andwe're going to know it and and
our type is the right person.
And all of these people datedoutside of their type, pretty
much. So be open to thosesurprises. Get some relationship
skills. You know, those arereally important, and know who's
compatible. You know, don't justlook for chemistry. So many
(32:21):
people focus so much onchemistry that they forget about
compatibility. And chemistry isfleeting. Compatibility is what
builds chemistry and makes itcontinue to flourish and grow.
So
Laura Bowman (32:32):
your message to like a woman who's like, Ah, I
dated that like I went on a datewith him, and like my mother
always says, I can't gethorizontal with that man. You
know, that sort of thing. Ican't get horizontal with him. I
mean, is that, do you encouragepeople to go on a couple more
dates and just remain open or,like, where do you, you know,
use your intuition aroundchemistry?
Sandy Weiner (32:55):
Yeah. So if you can't imagine ever kissing or
getting horizontal withsomebody, ever, like, in here
turned off completely. Yeah,yeah, don't go on another date.
Like, okay, there. There arereasons for that too. You know,
conversation is stilted. It'snot in flow. The person was on
their phone during the day.
Like, whatever it's it's justnot gonna work for you. But if
(33:16):
the person has some of your musthaves no apparent deal breakers.
There's some attraction youcould imagine maybe kissing this
person. Maybe one day. Maybeit's a five out of 10. Give them
another chance. This weddingthat I officiated, she
absolutely would never have goneon a second date. She was like,
(33:38):
I'm not attracted to him, butshe was never attracted to
anyone. And so the second date,she was like, he was asking her.
He tried to hold her hand, andshe pulled it away, and then he
said, Are you even looking for arelationship? And she said,
yeah. What? Like, what's wrongwith this guy? Why is he talking
to me about relationships? Ijust met him. He's pushy. He's
too, you know. So her mothersaid, talk to him, tell him to
(34:02):
slow down. Tell him you needmore time, you know. So there
was a connection. He saw thepotential in her, which he was
the most patient, incredibleman, because she like she was
giving him every sign that shewas going to run away and but I
do think that if there's someconnection, give it a chance.
Don't give it 20 dates, give ittwo or three and see connection
(34:25):
grows, because kindness isreally sexy. Somebody who shows
up is sexy. You know, people whofollow through and are
consistent and start to buildtrust, people who listen well
and don't just can take thewhole conversation and make it
about themselves. I mean, youknow, and if you're having fun
(34:48):
and enjoying it, just keep goingand see what happens.
Colette Fehr (34:54):
Yeah, and that's exactly what I did with my
husband in that, you know. Whenhe asked for my number, we had
spent this evening talking forhours and hours and hours, but
there was no he was not my typeat all. In terms of the kind of
guy I was, historically would gofor. I thought he was a nice
(35:14):
looking man, but he wasn'tsomebody that I would have
automatically dated when I wasyounger, certainly. And there
was no I was used to men reallykind of coming on strong, and it
having a big chemistry, and alsoit being very clear that a man
was interested in me sexually.
So I didn't get any of that frommy husband. And in fact, to the
(35:39):
point where I thought, does hejust, like, want a therapist,
or, like, a divorce buddy, or,you know, I didn't even know if
he was interested in me, becausethere was none of that kind of
flirtatiousness. And when heasked for my number, I really
thought he just wanted a friend.
And what I later found out wasthat he thought I would never be
(36:00):
interested in him, and that, youknow, he didn't really have a
shot with me, but that maybe wecould be friends, but he
summoned the courage up to,like, ask me out. And over time,
the very qualities you'repointing to that he showed
himself to be reliable andtrustworthy, and, you know,
(36:22):
listened and was very acceptingthose things, especially as we
get older and we get healthier,those things are very
attractive,
Sandy Weiner (36:30):
yeah, and I love that story, because you gave him
a chance, he gave you a chance.
And it didn't happen with thegiant fireworks and sparks. And
I like the slow build. I thinkthat it's much more trustworthy.
And I think that, again, therewas a reason you kept coming
back for more. I had arelationship like that where he
(36:52):
was really slow to make a move,and I'm like, Hey, I'm here. I'm
interested. And, you know, onceI talked to him about I wanted
to be exclusive with him, hebecause that was the first time
I ever did that too. He waslike, I'm all in. And he had to
cancel a date that he had. Ididn't even know he was dating
other people, but you have toassume people are dating others,
(37:14):
until you have that conversationwith them. And so women can make
that have that conversation aswell as men like Take, take, be
bold. Make, make yours. In fact,that
Colette Fehr (37:27):
is what I did with my husband. I finally was the
one, because every time I hungout with him, you're right, I
there was a reason. I was comingback, and I started to like him
more and more, and I had toreally be the one to like make
the first move. Good for you. Itwas too freaked out. Yeah, I
love it so i And I love the ideaof just giving everyone
(37:48):
permission to go with your gut,be authentic. You really can't
lose if you're doing that, youmay get disappointed, you may
get hurt, and you'll be able tohandle it, and it will give you
more confidence as you handleit, and everything leads you
toward the person that is gonnawork. You know, all the little
(38:10):
missteps along the way, ordisappointments, they're all
grist for the mill.
Sandy Weiner (38:16):
Yeah, and learn from them. Like, really take
them in and learn from them,because they will lead you there
if you take it in and say, Okay,that didn't work that time. And
I'm going to course correct andright. I remember, when I first
started dating, I would totallyfall for potential, like every
man, oh, my god, I'd be talkingto them on the phone. Oh, there
(38:38):
were like, That's Martin, that'smy person, and then I meet in
person and go, Oh, my, what wasI thinking? Because there was
zero chemistry, and I had builta fantasy in my head. And we do
this so often. We wanted to workso badly that we're just
building something, this fakesomething in our heads. And it's
(38:59):
that those highs and lows cankill you, and so don't do that
like learn from that and learnwhat you need to be at the pace
that works for you. I think weall have to really check in with
ourselves. That's
Colette Fehr (39:13):
such good advice.
Oh my gosh, Sandy, thank you.
And before we let you go, pleasetell our listeners how they can
connect with you and find yourbooks and your podcasts and all
that good stuff. Well,
Sandy Weiner (39:26):
this has just been a fantastic conversation. Thank
you. You can find me at lastfirst date.com and I have a tab
that says courses and books, andit's all my courses, both live
and DIY, and at the bottom ofthat page are links to all my
books, to I have tons ofprograms, lots of blog posts,
(39:48):
over 1000 I have a YouTubechannel, Instagram. Just
connect. Let's connect. Sandy,thank you
Colette Fehr (39:56):
again. This has been wonderful, and I. I can't
wait to connect further. I'm soglad to have met you and for our
listeners, thanks so much forjoining us for another episode
of insights from the couch.
Don't forget to share with yourfriends who may benefit from
this content and leave us areview, and we'll see you next
week.
Unknown (40:17):
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