June 9, 2025 • 48 mins
Have you ever wondered what's really happening inside your body when you eat certain foods? Stephen's journey with continuous glucose monitoring (CGM) technology reveals the profound insights these devices can provide—not just for those with diabetes, but for anyone seeking optimal health.
Stephen takes us through his transformative experience using a CGM for over a year while following ketogenic and carnivore diets. This small wearable device has completely changed his approach to managing type 2 diabetes, allowing him to lower his A1C from dangerously high levels to near-normal range without medication. The real-time glucose data provides immediate feedback on how different foods, stress levels, sleep quality, and exercise affect blood sugar—creating a personalized roadmap for health optimization.
Perhaps most eye-opening is Stephen's revelation about non-food factors that impact glucose levels. During one particularly stressful incident, he witnessed his glucose levels double within minutes—demonstrating how emotional stress can be as metabolically disruptive as poor food choices. Similarly, sleep disturbances often manifest as morning glucose spikes, while different exercise types produce unique glucose responses. The CGM makes these invisible processes visible and actionable.
For those following ketogenic or carnivore diets, a CGM validates dietary choices while identifying unexpected triggers. Stephen introduces the concept of "designer glucose"—using CGM data to create a completely personalized approach to food timing, exercise patterns, and stress management based on your unique physiological responses. While these devices were developed for diabetes management, they represent a powerful preventative tool that can help anyone avoid metabolic dysfunction before problems develop.
Ready to take control of your health with objective data rather than generic advice? Try using a CGM for even a short period to discover your body's unique responses and create a truly personalized approach to nutrition and lifestyle. Your body is constantly speaking to you—a CGM simply helps you listen more clearly.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Lessons from the Keto-Verse.
Join Stephen and Graham as theyexplore the keto lifestyle with
tips, science and stories toboost your health.
This podcast isn't medicaladvice.
Consult your healthcare advisorfor any health-related issues.
Get ready to fuel your primalpower.
Graham (00:17):
Thank you everyone for joining another episode of
Lessons from the Keto-Verse.
Today we are talking aboutcontinuous glucose monitors, or
CGMs, and how can you use ittowards building a healthier
lifestyle.
I'm going to start off byintroducing Stephen.
Stephen say hello, helloeveryone.
(00:38):
Thanks for joining us again.
Stephen (00:40):
We certainly appreciate your interest.
Graham (00:42):
All right, so let's get started what I'm going to do.
Stephen has a ton of experiencein this area, and so I'm going
to be leaning heavily onStephen's experience and
expertise.
He's been using a CGM for thepast year and a bit, so he's had
sort of an excellent data setto be able to share the results
with and share the experiencewith the audience.
(01:03):
To share the results with andshare the experience with the
audience.
And I'll start off with sort ofa large language model
definition of what a continuousglucose monitor is, just to set
the stage.
So a continuous glucose monitor,or CGM, is a small wearable
device that tracks your bloodsugar, which is glucose levels,
in real time, 24-7, by measuringglucose in the fluid under your
(01:25):
skin.
Unlike a traditional fingerstick test where you're actually
drawing blood, cgms provideongoing data showing trends,
spikes or drops in glucoselevels, often through a
smartphone app or receiver, soyou can actually watch it almost
real time.
For people with type 2 diabetes, cgms offer insights into how
(01:47):
food, exercise, stress or sleepaffect glucose, helping them
make informed choices to managetheir health.
Although a CGM tracks bloodglucose, it can also provide
insights into how your insulinis behaving.
Insulin is produced by thepancreas, and this is in
response to spikes in sugar,because sugar in our blood can
(02:10):
be very dangerous for us.
The cells in the pancreasrelease insulin into the
bloodstream to regulate bloodsugar levels by helping cells
absorb glucose for energy orstorage into those cells in the
body.
So again, we're going to beleaning on Stephen's experience
and expertise here.
I've got a couple of questionsfor him and let's see where the
(02:32):
conversation goes.
So question number one, stephen, for you, based on your
experience, can you explain whata continuous glucose monitor is
and how it differs fromtraditional finger stick testing
for somebody with type 2diabetes who's new to this
technology?
Stephen (02:49):
Yeah, just to reiterate , a continuous glucose monitor,
or what we short form into CGM,is a small wearable device.
It's a disc that has a tinyneedle that is injected into
your skin and it tracks yourblood sugar.
Now, the way it differs from atraditional finger stick test
yeah, go ahead.
Sorry about that, no worries.
(03:10):
So the way it differs fromtraditional finger stick testing
is that when you wear a CGM, itis doing that monitoring and
telling you with roughly a 15minute delay how your sugar is
doing, as opposed to thesometimes painful repetitive
checking of your blood sugarthat's required with the sticks.
And the sticks are quiteexpensive and it's sometimes
(03:33):
impractical.
And it does.
Actually, after you've used iton your finger several times, it
starts to be quiteuncomfortable because any
pressure in that area can causebleeding to resume and generally
bruising and other issues.
So it's not a very pleasantexperience, whereas the CGM, you
don't even really notice it.
In fact it's so subtle you haveto be careful you don't knock
(03:54):
it off.
Graham (03:55):
Excellent.
And so tell us, stephen, howcan a CGM, or continuous glucose
monitor, specifically helppeople with type 2 diabetes,
particularly those following aketogenic or carnivore diet?
How can it help manage theirblood glucose levels more
effectively?
Stephen (04:12):
Well, one of the great benefits with the CGMs is
because they are approximatingwhat's happening in near real
time.
It gives you an opportunity tolook at how your body is
reacting to as you hadhighlighted earlier, to stress
to the consumption of food, tolack of exercise or if, in fact,
you're lifting weights,typically your sugar will
(04:34):
actually go up because you'repulling, you're sending a signal
to the body to actually floodyour bloodstream with sugar so
you can use it to actually liftweights.
So, which is a physiologicalreaction which is very normal,
what we want to avoid with theCGM and why it's so helpful,
specifically for ketogenic andcarnivore diets, where typically
, typically, when you're onthose more strict diets if I
(04:57):
have been now for several monthsyou will not see as much a
spike initially as you would ifyou're consuming ultra-processed
food or foods laden with sugar.
So one of the great benefitsfor sure is that one.
You should be reassured by theketogenic and carnivore diet
with your own body, becauseyou'll see that it's quite
stable when you consume food andyou'll know right away, if you
(05:19):
see a spike, that you know whatit was that's caused it.
It may not be the food.
It could be the stressassociated or leading into that
meal.
It could be.
If you're practicing, as I do,with intermittent fasting,
sometimes you'll get a cortisolrise which is not measured by
the CGM but will show up as aremarkable amount of sugar
(05:42):
increase for what appears to beno apparent reason.
You don't have food in yourstomach and that sort of thing.
So often that can be attributedto stress and you can sort of
self-diagnose if you're in astressful situation you will see
it rise.
So all of that helps you makemore of an informed decision
about how your lifestyle isbeing affected through the
consumption of food or just ingeneral.
(06:03):
And that CGM is really like anelectronic doctor that's walking
around and advising you onexactly what your body is doing.
Graham (06:11):
Amazing and one of the things that was really
eye-opening to me, becauseobviously, going down this
journey, I started to understandwhich foods are more likely to
cause a spike in blood sugar.
You were literally watchingwhich foods cause a spike, but
after you know, I learned fromyou that actually stress and how
good a sleep you get canactually have a big impact on
(06:33):
your blood glucose levels aswell.
I think that's something reallyimportant for the listeners to
take seriously, because if youhave a very stressful life and
you are not getting a greatamount of sleep, then changing
your eating lifestyle isn'tnecessarily going to get you
across the finish line as wellor as effectively as if you had
(06:57):
your sleep and your stresslevels within an acceptable
range.
An acceptable range and Iwanted to jump on to given the
fact that our podcast focus ison the ketogenic way of eating
or low-carb, high-fat, how doesa CGM provide insights into how
dietary choices like keto orcarnivore impact blood glucose
in real time?
So maybe you can mention someof the foods that cause
(07:20):
unexpected glucose spikes thatmaybe people aren't totally
aware of.
Stephen (07:24):
Certainly, Every person's body will react
differently to foods outside ofthe more obvious ones.
If you're consumingultra-processed foods, if you're
having anything with sugar itdoesn't matter, by the way,
whether the sugar is coming froma natural source or a source
that is manufactured.
So take high fructose cornsyrup.
(07:45):
You'll note in your CGM rightaway that there will be a
massive and very quick onset ofa sugar spike, which people
generally don't realize, even ifthey're not diabetic, is very
unhealthy.
It's causing a metabolicprocess in your body that is
actually quite damaging and canpromote oxidative stress.
(08:07):
One of the things that anyperson should be trying to avoid
, and particularly a diabetic,is these inherent spikes.
Now there's strategies you canuse around the dietary process
that we've touched on before.
So, for instance, if you'refocusing more on keto rather
than the strict carnivore, thenyou would go to an ancestral
diet process that's more commonto what we experienced over the
(08:29):
last half century, and that is,you consume your salads, which
will create almost a cushion touse a non-medical word a cushion
in your stomach to slow theabsorption rate of the foods
that follow, Meaning that youstart with your salads, then you
add your proteins, then yourhigh fats and if, for some
reason, you are going to consumesomething that may be sweet,
(08:52):
although it's good to limit thequantity of it, the safest way
to reduce the likelihood andthis can, according to the
glucose goddess, can be upwardsto 70% reduction in the
potential spike by just simplypracticing a method of consuming
food the way I just described.
Graham (09:08):
So, Stephen, maybe you can take us back to a little
over a year ago when you, youknow, the day before you ever
had actually tried CGM for thefirst time.
Maybe you can help the audienceunderstand what are some of the
first steps someone with type 2diabetes should take to start
using a CGM, including anyconversations you recommend they
(09:30):
might have with their healthcare provider, if you believe
that that's something that youwould encourage.
Stephen (09:37):
Yeah.
So with respect to the healthcare provider, naturally, if
they write you a script,depending on your health care
insurance, from your employer orfrom something, perhaps you're
funding yourself.
More often than not.
If you're and I know it's thecase in the US and Canada if
you're in a situation where yourequire this because you're
(09:57):
deemed a diabetic and usuallyit's three HA1Cs that are
required, depending on theprovince and the country or the
state, but generally if you havethree and, based on our ratings
, if you have three bloodresults that show that you're
above 7.2, for instance, they'regoing to deem you as a diabetic
(10:18):
.
Really, anything between 6.6and 7, they pretty much consider
you a diabetic.
Anything between 6.6 and 7,they pretty much consider you a
diabetic.
6.0 to 6.5 or 6.1 to 6.5 isconsidered pre-diabetic.
So generally, the determinationis that in fact, you're a
diabetic.
The CGM should be a naturalconversation with your
healthcare provider because it'sengineered for type 2 diabetics
(10:42):
.
There are roughly two majormanufacturers of these items
that I'm aware of, and the onethat I use is quite well known
from Abbott Laboratories, and itwas research that I did on my
own.
I had already had the mediaglucose testing with the sticks,
which again, as I was earlierasked, caused quite a bit of
(11:03):
discomfort.
You're not overly encouragedabout stabbing yourself with a
needle to check your blood.
There's some anxiety associatedwith that, for sure Whereas
with the CGM one of the benefitsyou can see with your
healthcare providers you can geton with your day and just do a
quick check after a meal andwhen I say after a meal, you're
going to see a rise in yoursugar.
It should normalize back towhere it was after two hours.
(11:23):
If you're to your earlier point, getting a good insulin
response, it shouldn't prevailfor three or four hours after.
And the one thing that I findparticularly beneficial is if I
have eaten something, perhaps,that had hidden sugar that
wasn't disclosed, I'll see it inmy CGM, which gives me the
(11:44):
option of going for a walk afterthat meal and managing it down.
I still believe the best way tonaturally manage your sugar is
to do something as simple aswalk for 10 or 15 or 20 minutes,
and the CGM is great for thatbecause it'll actually show the
decline of your sugar as youcontinue to exercise.
For instance, last night Ijumped on my elliptical because
(12:06):
my sugar showed insanely highratings, and I wasn't entirely
sure why, because I'd beenfasting for most of the day and
I believe there was acombination of factors, one of
which was because I had beenfasting and probably had an
elevation in cortisol and thatcaused the first bit of food
that I was eating to almostcause almost like an
overreaction of my system.
(12:27):
So I then went and didapproximately 50% more exercise
than I normally would do on theelliptical, which was about
three miles, and my sugar cameback to normal.
And one of the things I wouldadvise too is that these are not
perfect in terms of theirtechnology, so it's always good
to still have a proper stickglucose test so that you can
(12:47):
verify that if the result you'regetting from the CGM is in fact
consistent with your meter,because obviously taking the
blood sample gram is veryconclusive to like 99%, whereas
the CGMs at times can be off alittle bit and certainly will
lag a trend if your sugar isrising or dropping.
So those are one of the thingsthat you have to be
(13:10):
conscientious aboutunderstanding when it comes to
CGMs.
Graham (13:12):
Very good insight.
I actually wasn't aware thatthe finger stick was the most
accurate way of getting thatdata, so that's really good for
myself and the listeners to know.
So for listeners who arethinking about getting a CGM or
maybe they're just starting out,how should they read and
interpret the CGM data, liketime and range or glucose trends
(13:34):
, so that they can make informeddecisions about their diet or
lifestyle?
How do they turn the data intoknowledge and, hopefully, action
?
Stephen (13:43):
Yeah, so very, very good point.
When people are first startingout, there is a tendency and I'm
certainly an example, and I hada male nurse explain, because
this particular person had a lotof experience with his patients
that had been using these CGMsand he said you know, one of the
key things is not to become, ashe described, neurotic about
(14:04):
your research and analyzing it.
I'm sure I'm way above the norm.
I'll candidly admit that,because it's just a nature of my
personality.
I want to know what the food isdoing to my body.
I want to know in a particularsituation, how, based on how I'm
feeling in that moment, if it'sreflected in my sugar, I'm
rarely surprised.
I can actually feel likeyesterday when my sugar was in
(14:25):
the 12s and things and rising.
You know, I said to my wifeI've got to get on the
elliptical, I don't feel well,and so it started to present
symptoms, Graham, that wereconsistent with almost like a
flu.
And it sounds counterintuitiveIn the absence of a CGM.
If I was feeling that way, Iwould probably go and lie down,
which is the worst thing I couldhave done, because then I'm not
(14:47):
processing the sugar in mybloodstream.
So the beauty of the CGM, in myopinion, is that it allows you
to make a decision in near realtime for what actually is
happening to your body, Whereas,conversely, before I had a CGM,
I either had to psych myselfinto using one of these sticks
and checking my blood, which Ithink I'm probably at least a
baseline norm of I wouldn't doit.
(15:09):
I'd only do it when I absolutelyfelt I needed to, and sometimes
my wife would even say to me oh, when's the last time you
checked your blood?
So sometimes the only time Ifound out that my sugar was
elevated was the trend line formy A1C, which by then is too
late because I've had these upand down spikes and done damage
to my organs for 90 days.
(15:30):
So last night I caught this,understood it, did the analysis
and all the data was recorded inmy CGM for me to analyze.
So when I ate, what I ate andall of this you put in manually,
but it tabulates all thisinformation and you can get
great insight into, okay, well,I know tomorrow when I eat I
(15:51):
have healthy meal that's denseand satiating, like the
carnivore diet and the keto dietprovides.
Because if you and this is areally interesting example if
you fast, and then the firstthing you eat is McDonald's or
something that we all know isnot healthy, you will get a
(16:12):
horrendously high spike and youwill feel very unwell because
you're not giving your body thenutrition it needs because of
the fast.
So sometimes the insulinreaction can be quite aggressive
and although the CGM doesn'tmeasure insulin, the knockdown
effects of high sugar obviouslycan reflect information related
(16:33):
to insulin that can be latertested in a lab, if you think
that you're starting toredevelop insulin resistance,
for example.
Graham (16:39):
Excellent.
And so, stephen, what are someof the beginner mistakes that
people might make with a, youknow, with a CGM, and how can
they avoid those potentialmistakes?
Or what kind of learnings canyou provide to help people get
the most accurate and usefuldata that they can actually do
something about?
Stephen (16:59):
You know, it's really interesting because it's kind of
over the course of the year,because I'm in the gym three,
four times a week and even mydoctor when I was diagnosed and
my newest family doctor lookingat me.
I don't fit a stereotypicalprofile for a diabetic.
I'm not overweight, in factjust the opposite.
I'm not what they call skinnyfat either.
(17:20):
I don't consume a lot ofalcohol and I drink water with
lemon to deal with any potentialfatty liver consequences.
I see a naturopath.
I have my blood work done on aregular basis.
I don't fit the profile.
And between walking and goingto the gym I'm probably
averaging somewhere between 30to 70 minutes a day and the
(17:42):
recommended amount is 70, Ibelieve, 70 to 150 minutes a
week.
So I'm well above that.
And just my lifestyle in thecountry as well.
I do quite a bit of stuffoutside when we're not
overwhelmed with bugs, so again,I'm giving myself lots of
opportunities to burn offcalories and still I'm still a
(18:05):
managed diabetic.
It begs the question well, howcan this be and the CGM will
give you evidence to supportwhat it is exactly that's going
on at the time.
Are you stressed out?
Are you sitting too much?
Are you engaged in activitiesthat perhaps are overworking
your brain, but your body's idle, and so you're able to see.
(18:27):
Well, you know what it's timefor me to get up and walk around
the house if the bugs are asbad as they are right now here,
or do something on an exercisemachine or row machine.
I have both.
So you can generally look atthis CGM as a means of
indicating oh okay, well, thisis how I avoid this particular
spike, and I call it taking thehead off the snake.
(18:47):
If the snake is venomous andpoisonous which is how I
characterize diabetes by seeingthat spike, I'm like oh yeah,
okay, well, you know what.
I'm going to take control ofthat by jumping on the
elliptical and within 20, 25minutes I'll see a change in my
sugar because there's a 15minute delay.
So already with the first pedalor two, I'm working in the
(19:10):
right direction.
You just won't see it initiallyin the CGM results and soon
enough, after 20, 25 minutes oflight work on the elliptical or
just a light walk, it's amazinghow quickly your sugar will
normalize after a meal or aftera stressful situation.
Graham (19:25):
Yeah, I'm reminded of that every time I go for a walk.
Now I can kind of hear youencouraging me along, knowing
it's having an instant effect onmy blood sugar levels and
insulin response, which is verysatisfying.
So our audience includes activeindividuals, including some in
the military.
How can the CGM data helpoptimize exercise routines for
(19:50):
better glucose control and arethere differences in how
exercise impacts glucose on alow-carb diet?
Stephen (19:56):
Yeah.
So if we take the military asan example, I mean one of the
advantages to using a CGM is, Iwould describe as preventative.
I'm not entirely current.
It's been a number of yearssince I was in the military.
Whether or not what they call amedical classification will
impact your file with thediagnosis of diabetes I'm not
(20:17):
clear on that for Canada or theUS, but let's presume that it's
in your best interest to stay ashealthy as you can.
If you wish to stay in whatthey call your promotional
window, meaning that you havethe opportunity to move up the
ranks, and that's likely goingto be in question if you have
any significant health concerns,you can end up with a medical
(20:38):
category that prevents you frombeing promoted.
Generally, military people wouldbe incentivized to be as
healthy as possible, also by thenature of their work that they
want to be at the very best,because the demands that are
required in the military can beextreme at times, especially in
our current world climate.
So that would be one incentive.
I think that most militarypeople would align with.
Most people who are in themilitary are task-centric and
(21:01):
task-oriented and enjoy theability to control or manage
outcomes, especially as theyrelate to their own physical
health.
So certainly the CGM, they'llknow through their exercise
routines that they have betterglucose control and certainly
that particular types ofexercise have different impacts
on glucose, for instance.
And again I want to stress thatthere's nothing wrong with
(21:23):
weight training.
Just the opposite is quite goodfor you because you're building
a metabolic resistance, you'rebuilding that agility in your
system to be able to deal withdifferent forms of stress.
And again, this is acute stresson the muscles, which will
cause sugar to go to the muscles, which will increase the amount
of glucose that was resident infat and push it the pancreas
(21:45):
will push it into yourbloodstream so you can use that
energy to actually lift thoseweights.
I mean, it's an importantprocess, it's a natural process.
What's more subtle and moreappropriate for after meals is
for an individual to go for awalk and help the body naturally
process the glucose that's inthe food.
That's about the healthiestthing I've learned from using a
(22:07):
CGM for me, and there would beno way for me to be able to
state that if I didn't wear aCGM every day.
Graham (22:13):
Nice and let's move from exercise over to stress and
sleep.
We talked about this already,so we've already heard that
stress and sleep we talked aboutthis already, so we've already
heard that stress and sleep canaffect glucose levels.
Can you explain how CGMs canhelp users understand these
factors and manage them in thecontext of type 2 diabetes?
Stephen (22:31):
Yes, a great question.
Even this morning I noticedthat my sugar, probably from the
night before when it was quiteerratic again while I was
fasting, and perhaps becausesometimes we're affected.
Incidentally, I want to mention, before getting directly to the
question, for the benefit of ofthe listeners, that if you, if
you eat perhaps less healthy towhat your typical diet would be,
(22:53):
on a call it this weekend, thison a Saturday on, you may not
see much of an impact onSaturday, but you'll have a
legacy effect.
In Sunday and Monday You'llstill be trying to get your
sugar back under control becausethere'll be indices that will
show up that are not consistentwith what you've normally
experienced.
They will pop in there andyou'll go wow, you know, my
(23:13):
sugar seems really high and Ihaven't even eaten for the last
six hours, or I fasted lastnight.
So again, the CGM allows you todo that self-analysis, that
self-diagnosis, and go okay,well, what is it that changed?
Well, I didn't get much sleep.
Okay, well, that's certainly afactor, because when we're
overtired, it puts a load on oursystem and stresses us, and
(23:36):
what's the consequence of that?
It's cortisol.
So when cortisol is released,it's absolutely going to cause
an elevation in sugar.
Why?
Because that's what cortisoldoes.
Cortisol is a stress hormone, socortisol tells the body which
is appropriate when we are instressful situations to again
much like food is secrete moreglucose into the body to use it.
(23:58):
The problem with the stresshormone is we don't actually
need it.
So what happens is thatelevated glucose sits in your
bloodstream to no effect.
It's not actually being used byanything.
So if we took a simple examplefrom an oversimplified example
from the history of humanity,being chased by something that
was threatening and we didn'thave the means to protect
(24:20):
ourselves other than running,then it was very appropriate for
our body to release cortisoland fire neurons and shoot high
glucose into our system, becauseit was our fight or flight
response.
This is the difference betweenthe parasympathetic and
sympathetic body systems.
So when we're in an elevatedstate of stress that is chronic,
(24:40):
we're always in that fight andflight response, which is highly
, highly, highly oxidative forour bodies and can lead to
things like diabetes and cancer.
We all know that.
There's plenty of researchmaterial that the readers can
look into on their own todiscover what the root causes
are.
The quality of our food is aroot cause.
So what we're really trying todo with the CGM is going okay.
(25:01):
Here's my baseline.
These are the things I've done,whether good, bad or
indifferent in terms of food, interms of stress, in terms of
sleep and, specifically, as wetalk about sleep and stress,
what really what we're saying iswhat can I do now that I know
that it's probably just as badas a piece of pizza?
Do, now that I know that it'sprobably just as bad as a piece
of pizza, if that's what you had, what can I do about it?
Well, in my case, it'smindfulness.
(25:23):
So you used a great exampleearlier, graham.
You said hey, steve, I go for awalk and I think about you and
I practice grounding and I thinkabout being in a state of grace
and thinking about as I walkthrough the woods, I'm grounding
, I'm in nature, and so forth.
These are all very importantthings, whether it's Japan and
(25:43):
in the Far East, all the way tothe West.
They've proven time and timeagain that being out in nature
and getting fresh air, as ourparents used to describe it, is
very, very important toresetting our metabolic rate,
and you will see that in the CGM.
You'll see, as you're walkingand doing these things and
relaxing, that your sugar willdrop.
You'll see, too, when you'rewearing a CGM.
(26:04):
I had an example where I wasbuilding a timber frame
structure with a contractor andhe slipped and threw a 200 and
some pound beam at me and I hadto catch it on a 14 foot ladder,
which was just way too muchweight, and I saw my baseline
sugar double.
In 20 minutes.
I went from 6.1 to 12.8.
(26:26):
And that was a great example, aterrifying one, but a great
example of just how responsiveour bodies are to highly
stressful situations.
Graham (26:36):
Wow, that could have ended up much worse, so I'm glad
it didn't.
You had actually touched onthis a little bit earlier.
When you're doing a fingerprick test, you're getting an
instant and up-to-date result.
But you kind of touched on thefact that, because CGMs measure
interstitial fluid, which is thefluid just below the skin, not
(26:58):
blood glucose directly, whichthis can cause slight delays or
maybe even discrepancies in theresults.
How should users account forthis when making decisions
around food and when to eat?
Stephen (27:11):
Yes, it's so important because I had that precise
example this morning.
Here I was, I fasted, I saw aglucose rise yesterday, didn't
feel well enough to even eat tocombat it, so I just decided to
ride it out and fast, because atleast I get the benefit of
antophagy, because I would havebeen fasting for about 17 to 20
(27:33):
hours by the time I ate thismorning, and I'm an early riser.
So by the time I ate today Iwas already up for about four
hours and or possibly five.
And when I ate I ate the usualcarnivore, which was bacon and
eggs and high fat Greek yogurt,and I didn't see any rise
actually in my sugar at all.
(27:53):
In fact it went the oppositeway, which is astounding because
my sugar was trending to eightand change again, and which is
high even with the was trendingto eight and change again, which
is high even with the Donphenomena, and the Don phenomena
is the natural process of yourbody when it switches from be as
high as mine was evidence withthe CGM.
So I alternate between fasting,extended fastings and in the
(28:14):
traditional definition that'smore than 24 hours.
But I don't do that because I'mtoo cortisol sensitive, so I'll
do a fasting for 12 hours and 12hours.
So, for instance, I'll havebreakfast and then I won't eat
again until seven o'clock atnight, and now that means that
I'm taking a 12, 12 hour breakon food.
In between I won't get into astate of antophagy unless I'm
(28:34):
doing more of the 18 to 20 hourrange minimum, so I kind of
alternate.
So yesterday would have been anexample of taking advantage of
the ontophagy, which isessentially cleaning out, call
it, the dysfunctional cells thatare in the body, giving the
body a chance to go into a purehealing mode because it's not
worried about trying to digestfood and deal with that sort of
thing.
So you know, this was a veryproductive overall result that I
(28:58):
was able to, in 24 hours, gofrom dangerously high sugar in
my opinion and a doctor'sopinion to something far more
moderate and to turn it into anadvantage, all because of the
data I was getting from the CGM.
Graham (29:10):
Very, interesting data, stephen.
The ketogenic diet is low incarbohydrate foods.
By design, carbs turn intoglucose and therefore somebody
on a carnivore or ketogenic dietshould have results of lower
(29:31):
blood sugar levels over time,over time.
Now that you've had a CGM forover a year and you've been
doing the keto carnivorelifestyle for, I think, even
longer than that, are thereunique benefits or challenges
when using CGMs alongside aketogenic or carnivore diet,
(29:51):
particularly for people who havetype 2 diabetes?
Stephen (29:55):
I don't believe there is.
I think, a different way that Iwould approach answering that
question is to use myself as anexample.
When my sugar was out ofcontrol, it exacerbated my
anxiety and caused even morecortisol to be released because
of my PTSD, and so it was avicious cycle, and so my IBS
(30:16):
would react, which would causefurther anxiety, especially if I
was traveling somewhere whereyou know.
All of a sudden I required arestroom.
You know that's a difficultthing if you're on the road and
traveling in an area that you'renot familiar, or if you're
sitting in an airport or you'reabout to get on a plane, so you
can imagine how difficult thatcan be.
What I found is extraordinaryover the last year of this
(30:38):
healing process, I've haddiabetes or diagnosed with
diabetes since I was 50.
I'm now 58.
They say that you probably havehad diabetes for 10 or 15 years
before it's actually diagnosed,only because the symptoms are
usually what draw people like meinto the doctor to say, hey,
I'm not feeling well and I seemto be packing on weight, and
that's when they discover you'vegot a glucose problem or you're
(31:00):
having issues with healing.
It's taking longer forabrasions or cuts to heal, or
you're getting neuropathy inyour feet.
So all of these things areleading to this metabolic
dysfunction and the consequencesthat it's having on your organs
and when your skin and nervesare certainly a component of
that.
So I think generally, whetherit's keto or whether it's
(31:21):
carnivore, or if you're wantingto see if cutting out ultra
processed foods and movingtowards keto, carnivore for you,
you're going to see encouragingresults in your sugar, at least
a trend line to suggest thatnotwithstanding.
You know if you have aparticularly stressful day, you
could throw out you know, thefood part of it per se.
(31:41):
But still better outcome thanyou would have if you were
continuing, as I was, to try tofind your way with ignorance and
only relying on your A1Cresults every 90 days, which are
stressful in themselves, tofind out whether you're doing
better.
And again, my objective always,graham, was to make sure that I
could find a natural solution,because trying the drugs that
they initially put me on made meeven more sick, made my IBS
(32:06):
worse, increased my anxiety,destroyed my quality of life.
I had a difficult time goingout to even go get groceries
unless I had not eaten for atleast 16, 17 or 18 hours like
literally, so that there wasnothing in my system that could
cause a IBS flare up.
So that's not a way to liveyour life and I'm grateful that
(32:28):
you know companies like AbbottLaboratories have created these
things because I can make theseadjustments and continue to
build on the knowledge.
And it captures all thatinformation for you.
So it will show you days inrange, show percentage in range,
it will show your trending A1Cand, yes, as you had asked
earlier, sometimes those arewrong.
I've got my real blood testresults and sometimes they've
(32:51):
been actually lower in realityto the CGM A1C rating and other
times it's been slightly higher.
So one of the important things Iwant to touch on is where you
wear the CGM.
They were engineered to be wornin the fatty tissue at the back
of the arm.
The problem for some of us andI'm certainly in dialogue with
(33:12):
Abbott Laboratories on a regularbasis about this I don't have
fat there on my body becauseI've been lifting weights since
I was 16.
I have to put it in other areasof my body that it has not
actually been proven to workLike, for instance, I have it
now in what people would callthe love handles.
I have it in that area of mybody, because even behind my
(33:33):
shoulder blades I ran out offatty tissue and I was bending
the needles all the time andthat's quite painful.
It's like a fish hug and you endup rolling over on it in the
middle of the night and it willwake you because it's and when
the needle's bent, it doesn'tregister your blood sugar
properly.
So now you're getting bad datainto your system.
(33:54):
So and I know bothmanufacturers that we use in
North America are really good atreplacing them when that
happens and they also have atendency to fall off.
So one of the things thatathletes can use is the Nexcare
Tegaderm, which is like a clearbandage that you can put over
the CGM for the two-week period.
And I would strongly advisepeople to not put the CGM in the
(34:16):
same spot, graham, because youwill get a skin irritation with
the Tegaderm, especially becauseyou're covering up the skin for
two weeks and your skin needsto breathe.
So it's best to if you can,move it to the opposite side of
the body in the same location,if that's an area where you're
getting pretty good rating.
Graham (34:34):
Really good to know.
I actually didn't know thateither.
If that's an area where you'regetting pretty good rate, Really
good to know.
I actually didn't know thateither.
So, thinking about ourlisteners, sort of you know,
some people at home might bethinking I'm looking to put my
type 2 diabetes in remission, orI'm not quite diabetic, maybe
I'm pre-diabetic, or maybe it'sjust going in that direction,
which was the scenario that Iwas in a couple of years ago.
(34:56):
So you know, people justwanting to avoid getting that
diagnosis altogether throughdiet.
How can a CGM support long-termglucose monitoring and help
track progress towards reducingmedication or achieving
remission?
Based on your more than ayear's experience, yeah, I'm
sorry.
Stephen (35:14):
I'm going to have to ask you to repeat that.
For some reason I wasn't ableto hear that.
Graham (35:17):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Listeners at home that arelooking to put their type 2
diabetes in remission.
Or they are pre-diabetic anddon't want to get that diagnosis
, or they're on their way tobeing pre-diabetic and they want
to avoid that diagnosisaltogether through diet.
How can a CGM support long-termglucose monitoring and help
(35:42):
track progress towards reducingmedication or achieving that
remission?
Stephen (35:46):
Well, I think there's two elements to that.
I think first and foremost isthe short term.
I've had a few friends that saywell, you know, I'd be
interested to see what my body'sdoing.
These things are prettyexpensive.
They're $120 Canadian for justtwo weeks.
That seems like a lot of money.
And I ask well, what do youthink dialysis costs?
And what value do you put onyour eyesight?
(36:08):
Because I have a friend who'slosing his eyesight from
diabetes and has needlesinjected directly into the
eyeballs to prevent going blind.
So, and how much do you likeyour toes?
I mean, for me my situation maybe different than others
economically, but there are alot of things I can cut out of
my life, including a tank of gasto have the CGM if that's what
(36:29):
it came down to Because, again,the impact on the quality of
life, I think, necessitateshaving it.
As far as the longer term, ofcourse, you know, here I am on a
trend line over the course ofthe last year where I'm
essentially ignored by thediabetic clinic here locally,
which is a good thing.
It's the club you want to bekicked out of, because my sugars
(36:51):
, without any medication, areeither non-diabetic or
pre-diabetic, and the last timemy sugar was out of control, I
was in the high nines and thatwas my A1c.
So my A1c is now hoveringbetween 5.8 and 6.2, which is
considering the fact that I wasa full-blown diabetic and I'm
(37:13):
now doing it naturally.
I mean literally what we'redescribing here today.
The worst thing is going tohappen to you, diabetic or not,
is you're going to get healthierand you're going to see the
results as you age.
That will show up in differentways in terms of your quality of
life, the energy that you haveduring the day, you know.
It naturally leads to thequestion in terms of long-term
and I kind of refer to Dr Addyon this is how do you define
(37:37):
healthspan and how do you definelifespan?
I mean, if the last 20 years ofyour life are suffering as a
uncontrolled diabetic that'shighly medicated, with all the
consequential side effects, isthat what you want?
Enjoy what it is you believeyou enjoy, until you get to a
(37:58):
situation like me where even thethings you thought you enjoy
are literally making youextremely sick.
So that's certainly the path Itook out of ignorance.
But the whole point of what youand I are trying to do is to
say to people okay, maybe you'renot a diabetic, but maybe it
wouldn't hurt to have your sugarmonitored for a couple of weeks
and just see how food affectsyou and just cut that food out.
Maybe you can't eat mangoes.
(38:18):
Maybe you get a bad reactionfrom watermelon, despite its
fiber density.
You may be the kind of personthat can't eat many blueberries,
or strawberries react in astrange way to your sugar,
regardless of stacking, as theycall it, which was what we
described earlier, with salad,protein, high fat and then fruit
.
So these are all insights thatyou can engineer.
(38:39):
I call it kind of designerglucose Graham that you can
design a solution that is moreholistic with respect to your
physical health, your mentalhealth, brain fog, well-being
and just general health, in away that puts you in the
driver's seat, because you havethe information long before your
doctor would ever have it.
(39:01):
You're dealing with only a15-minute delay and I'm highly
incentivized, just by the natureof my personality, to be in a
state of constant improvement orcontinuous improvement, and
this constant glucose metergives me the information I need
to minimize the consequentialshort-term spikes and the very
consequential long-term impactsof having these daily spikes in
(39:24):
food unknowingly affect myhealth, as it had over the last
number of years.
Graham (39:29):
Love the term designer glucose.
Stephen, I've got an idea for at-shirt for you in the future.
It sums it up so nicely, and sothe ketogenic lifestyle, like
any lifestyle change, can betrying at times.
How can a CGM, how can CGM data, empower listeners to stay
motivated with their ketogenicor carnivore diet and make
(39:52):
sustainable lifestyle changes?
Stephen (39:54):
in your experience, I think it has to be a little bit
of self-reflection again anddetermining well, what is your
mission statement?
What are you trying to achieve?
And to be kind to yourselfthrough that process.
You're going to have setbacks.
There are times when you havefriends over, as I did on the
weekend, where you may indulge alittle more than normal, you
may stay up a little later.
You may put more stress on yourbody as a result.
(40:15):
None of us are saying that weneed to lock ourselves away in a
closet.
No one is saying, oh, you can'tgo on a cruise now and have a
piece of cake, but you're goingto watch what that piece of cake
does and maybe next time youdecide it's not worth it because
maybe you feel like you havethe flu.
And I actually want to jump onthat for a second.
And I'm touching wood to makesure that, metaphorically or
(40:36):
otherwise, that I don't invitesomething in.
You know, they say words are.
We call words spelling becausethe cast spells.
But I have been without any formof illness for this entire
period.
I've been wearing a CGM and Idon't think that's coincidental.
I think it's by design, becausemy body is not being redirected
.
I'm not doing things to my bodythat compromise my immune
(40:58):
system and so, consequently,despite the flus that went
around over the winter, despitethe colds that are going around
now, the gastrointestinal issuesthat I used to get when I used
to get sick, pre-diagnoseddiabetic, or even as a diabetic,
I would get it way, way worsethan anyone else in the family,
because I was immunocompromised.
Now that I have these thingsunder control, that's not the
(41:19):
case, and so I'm repairing mybody and creating a call it a
preventative shield by thenature of my lifestyle, and I
find that highly inspiring.
I find it and hence the wholereason why we're sharing this
with other people, because Ibelieve I'm not alone in this
when you have the contrast ofwhere you know you literally
have to know where washrooms arearound, a visit for groceries,
(41:43):
because your sensitivity is thatsevere to where you don't even
think about it anymore, which iswhat most of us take for
granted until we can't.
And I'm quite confident thatone of the terrible things about
diabetes and having highelevated sugar is, at a certain
point, it's so much sugar inyour bloodstream, your body just
goes.
We're going to let go ofeverything, we're just going to
get rid of it, and it'll come.
(42:04):
Obviously they know that itcomes through urine, but I also
think you know it'll cause thesethe consequences of IBS as well
.
Graham (42:11):
Such a good point around .
The fact that you're, on adaily basis, putting yourself in
the most optimal state meansthat your body's immune system,
potentially, is also in the mostoptimal state, and you've seen
firsthand results of that.
We've talked in previouspodcasts about the fact that the
(42:32):
one you know, maybe unintendedconsequence to all this and I
think we'll talk about this morein a future podcast but one of
the unintended consequences tothis is we just don't get as
sick as we used to or at all,and that is that's another club
that you do want to get kickedout of is the getting sick all
the time club.
So, stephen, last couple ofquestions here Are CGMs only for
(42:55):
type two diabetics or cananyone benefit from this amazing
tool regardless of whether theyhave that diagnosis or not?
Stephen (43:03):
Yeah.
So before I answer thatquestion, I will say I am not
paid, endorsed or endorsing anyparticular CGM.
I can only speak to the onethat I use.
So I say this with the highestdegree of transparency.
I am not on anyone's payroll,but I know for a fact because
I'm probably on a friendly listto the call center for Abbott
Laboratories because I'm alwaysasking similar questions.
(43:25):
Well, how come you guys don'tpromote this for other, like
just healthy people, as apreventative measure, or as I'm
suggesting?
I even suggested to you youknow that, graham.
I said, hey, let me give youone of mine, wear it for a
couple of weeks and see whathappens.
And I know you're open to that,but lots of people are not.
And what I find, sometimes even, is that people are reluctant
(43:48):
to get the information that theywould need because they're
afraid of what they're going tofind out.
And the problem with that isthat we know from people with
cancer and other really seriousillnesses that more often than
not they've avoided going to thedoctor for an extended period
until they have an incident.
And I was no different.
I mean, I didn't know there wasanything wrong with me until
(44:09):
they told me I was a diabetic.
I was going to the gym, I waswalking, I had a sure busy
lifestyle with, at the time,much younger kids, but I mean I
was doing what I thoughteverybody else was doing.
It's just that my body reacteddifferently and I had a legacy
of other traumas that probablymade me more sensitive to it
than others.
So, yeah, I'm a strong advocatefor people to wear these things
(44:31):
.
I wished I had this 10 yearsago because I probably wouldn't
have continued intermittentlyand unknowingly do damage to my
body.
Do I believe that I've healed mybody entirely?
I don't know, but I certainlyknow I'm, in a way, better state
than I would be otherwise.
So, yes, I'm an advocate forpeople trying it just to see
what would happen.
They're not painful.
It's way more painful prickingyour finger, you know, six times
(44:53):
a day to see what your glucoseis doing.
Then slap something on that youbarely feel going in and you
just have to be careful youdon't knock it off and you have
to be careful that you don'tbend it.
And it takes a little bit toget used to the app and, yes,
you have to input yourinformation into it and all that
.
And be diligent about it.
Yes sir, yes sir.
Graham (45:13):
I think I lost internet connection on my side, so why
don't we try doing that questionover again?
I do apologize because that wasa fantastic answer, but I know
it stopped recording like threequarters of it.
Diabetics, or, in your opinion,can anyone benefit, regardless
(45:36):
of whether they have a diagnosisor not?
And I think it's important tonote that neither one of us are
sponsored by any CGM companies.
We're not on anybody's payroll.
You have an experience with oneof those tools or one of the
brands, but, in your opinion,can anyone benefit, regardless
of whether they have that type 2diabetic diagnosis or not?
Stephen (45:56):
Well, a lot of these companies, or the two that I
know of, I'm not quite sure.
Why do not necessarily promotehealthy people in using these
devices?
Because they haven't beentested on people that are
healthy.
But I don't understand why you,as an individual that isn't
necessarily looking for a labresult, wouldn't at least try it
(46:17):
to see how food affects you, tosee how stress affects you.
I mean, we do tests for sleepapnea and we have studies where
they study you while you sleep.
I see this no differently so youcan follow your regular pattern
and lifestyle and see what itis you need to change in order
to course correct and avoid thekind of illnesses that I have
(46:38):
and often result with otherpeople, and I've actually
suggested this to people who say, hey look, I will.
I even suggested this to you.
I'll give you one of these tryfor two weeks and the worst
that's going to happen is you'llbe more aware of what your body
is doing with the food that youeat and you'll be more mindful
of stressors throughout your day.
(46:58):
That affect your sugar now.
Maybe you can do something aboutit.
Maybe you don't need to wear itafter that.
Maybe you get another one insix months and see if the same
things are happening.
But if you use it to correctyour diet and to correct your
lifestyle, then what's the worstthing that's going to happen?
You're going to be healthier.
Graham (47:19):
Amazing and this is the last question, but I think it's
an important one you hadmentioned a couple of downsides
to the CGM, because we obviouslyhave talked about a lot of the
upsides and, like anything,there's going to be some
downsides.
One you mentioned costpotentially, and that's if
insurance isn't covering it, andthe potential skin issues with
actually having to press thisinto the slightly below the skin
.
Are there any other downsidesthat you've experienced, or did
(47:43):
we cover them with those two?
Stephen (47:44):
Well, there's one other thing that I just thought of,
because the app is tied to yourphone.
One of the things that somepeople can find annoying is if
you forget your phone and leaveit somewhere and you walk away
and you're too far from theconnection between the cgm and
your phone, you'll lose thatdata, and so it can be a little
(48:05):
bit annoying sometimes, becausethen you have to rescan the
sensor with your phone the backof your phone and it'll make a
little beep noise saying it'srecaptured the data, but you may
lose a bit of data, but mostpeople.
I don't think it's a hugelifestyle impact because most
people walk around with theirphones anyway, so you're just a
little bit more conscious ofthat, if you're wanting true
(48:26):
data as clean as possible.
You know true data as clean aspossible.
Graham (48:31):
That's, I think, the first time that I've heard our
phone addiction is actually anet benefit, first time that
I've heard our phone addictionis actually a net benefit.
That might just be the only one, but I think you know one of
the things that I have learned alot from you, stephen, and just
you know other podcasterstalking about the benefits of
CGMs is it's about taking yourhealth matters into your own
(48:52):
hands.
You now have the control versusleaving it up to somebody else
and unfortunately I think I canspeak for Stephen confidently
and myself it's critical to takethese matters into your own
hands.
That's how Stephen and Ifinally ended up getting the
results, the real results thatwe experienced.
(49:12):
When we relied on other people,when we relied on mainstream
advice that, you know, may ormay not be conflicted we weren't
getting the results that weneeded.
Once we dug into our results inmy case, I dug into the
mechanisms behind what causeshigh A1C and some of the other
blood markers that I wasexperiencing.
You did that.
(49:32):
You also took matters into yourown hands by, you know, taking
control over the CGM data andlooking at it yourself.
You ended up being your youknow your best healthcare worker
and at the end of the day,everyone in the healthcare
system are looking to do theright thing.
They are motivated in the rightway, in my opinion, but they
(49:53):
are, at the end of the day,secondary support compared to
you taking those health carematters into your own hands.
And I know because Stephen and Iwere able to do that we saw a
much different version ofourselves on the other side and
continue to do so and reallyencourage others to take control
, because, at the end of the day, you do have some choices, you
(50:15):
do have some options andhopefully this podcast gives you
some tips and tricks on.
You know what those options areto take more control over your
health.
Stephen, excellent summary ofyou.
Know how people can use a CGMand how they can use it for
their advantage.
Is there anything else you wantto share before we end the
(50:36):
podcast?
Stephen (50:36):
No, I think we covered everything, graham, and I really
appreciate the opportunity.
I think you did a greatsummation there at the end, I
couldn't have said it better.
Graham (50:44):
Amazing.
Well, thank you everyonelistening to another episode of
Lessons from the Keto-Verse.
We hope you enjoyed the episodeand learned a little bit.
You know, feel free to dropsome comments.
If you have any questions forStephen on his experience, he'd
be more than happy to respond.
Thanks everybody.
(51:04):
Thank you, stephen, and we willtalk to everybody next time.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Thanks for tuning into Lessons from the Keto-Verse
.
Join Stephen and Graham nexttime for more keto tips and
stories to fuel your health.
Subscribe, share and let's keepthe keto vibes going.
Welcome to Lessons from the Keto-Verse.
Join Stephen and Graham as theyexplore the keto lifestyle with
tips, science and stories toboost your health.
This podcast isn't medicaladvice.
Consult your healthcare advisorfor any health-related issues.
Get ready to fuel your primalpower.
Graham (00:17):
Thank you everyone for joining another episode of
Lessons from the Keto-Verse.
Today we are talking aboutcontinuous glucose monitors, or
CGMs, and how can you use ittowards building a healthier
lifestyle.
I'm going to start off byintroducing Stephen.
Stephen say hello, helloeveryone.
(00:38):
Thanks for joining us again.
Stephen (00:40):
We certainly appreciate your interest.
Graham (00:42):
All right, so let's get started what I'm going to do.
Stephen has a ton of experiencein this area, and so I'm going
to be leaning heavily onStephen's experience and
expertise.
He's been using a CGM for thepast year and a bit, so he's had
sort of an excellent data setto be able to share the results
with and share the experiencewith the audience.
(01:03):
To share the results with andshare the experience with the
audience.
And I'll start off with sort ofa large language model
definition of what a continuousglucose monitor is, just to set
the stage.
So a continuous glucose monitor,or CGM, is a small wearable
device that tracks your bloodsugar, which is glucose levels,
in real time, 24-7, by measuringglucose in the fluid under your
(01:25):
skin.
Unlike a traditional fingerstick test where you're actually
drawing blood, cgms provideongoing data showing trends,
spikes or drops in glucoselevels, often through a
smartphone app or receiver, soyou can actually watch it almost
real time.
For people with type 2 diabetes, cgms offer insights into how
(01:47):
food, exercise, stress or sleepaffect glucose, helping them
make informed choices to managetheir health.
Although a CGM tracks bloodglucose, it can also provide
insights into how your insulinis behaving.
Insulin is produced by thepancreas, and this is in
response to spikes in sugar,because sugar in our blood can
(02:10):
be very dangerous for us.
The cells in the pancreasrelease insulin into the
bloodstream to regulate bloodsugar levels by helping cells
absorb glucose for energy orstorage into those cells in the
body.
So again, we're going to beleaning on Stephen's experience
and expertise here.
I've got a couple of questionsfor him and let's see where the
(02:32):
conversation goes.
So question number one, stephen, for you, based on your
experience, can you explain whata continuous glucose monitor is
and how it differs fromtraditional finger stick testing
for somebody with type 2diabetes who's new to this
technology?
Stephen (02:49):
Yeah, just to reiterate , a continuous glucose monitor,
or what we short form into CGM,is a small wearable device.
It's a disc that has a tinyneedle that is injected into
your skin and it tracks yourblood sugar.
Now, the way it differs from atraditional finger stick test
yeah, go ahead.
Sorry about that, no worries.
(03:10):
So the way it differs fromtraditional finger stick testing
is that when you wear a CGM, itis doing that monitoring and
telling you with roughly a 15minute delay how your sugar is
doing, as opposed to thesometimes painful repetitive
checking of your blood sugarthat's required with the sticks.
And the sticks are quiteexpensive and it's sometimes
(03:33):
impractical.
And it does.
Actually, after you've used iton your finger several times, it
starts to be quiteuncomfortable because any
pressure in that area can causebleeding to resume and generally
bruising and other issues.
So it's not a very pleasantexperience, whereas the CGM, you
don't even really notice it.
In fact it's so subtle you haveto be careful you don't knock
(03:54):
it off.
Graham (03:55):
Excellent.
And so tell us, stephen, howcan a CGM, or continuous glucose
monitor, specifically helppeople with type 2 diabetes,
particularly those following aketogenic or carnivore diet?
How can it help manage theirblood glucose levels more
effectively?
Stephen (04:12):
Well, one of the great benefits with the CGMs is
because they are approximatingwhat's happening in near real
time.
It gives you an opportunity tolook at how your body is
reacting to as you hadhighlighted earlier, to stress
to the consumption of food, tolack of exercise or if, in fact,
you're lifting weights,typically your sugar will
(04:34):
actually go up because you'repulling, you're sending a signal
to the body to actually floodyour bloodstream with sugar so
you can use it to actually liftweights.
So, which is a physiologicalreaction which is very normal,
what we want to avoid with theCGM and why it's so helpful,
specifically for ketogenic andcarnivore diets, where typically
, typically, when you're onthose more strict diets if I
(04:57):
have been now for several monthsyou will not see as much a
spike initially as you would ifyou're consuming ultra-processed
food or foods laden with sugar.
So one of the great benefitsfor sure is that one.
You should be reassured by theketogenic and carnivore diet
with your own body, becauseyou'll see that it's quite
stable when you consume food andyou'll know right away, if you
(05:19):
see a spike, that you know whatit was that's caused it.
It may not be the food.
It could be the stressassociated or leading into that
meal.
It could be.
If you're practicing, as I do,with intermittent fasting,
sometimes you'll get a cortisolrise which is not measured by
the CGM but will show up as aremarkable amount of sugar
(05:42):
increase for what appears to beno apparent reason.
You don't have food in yourstomach and that sort of thing.
So often that can be attributedto stress and you can sort of
self-diagnose if you're in astressful situation you will see
it rise.
So all of that helps you makemore of an informed decision
about how your lifestyle isbeing affected through the
consumption of food or just ingeneral.
(06:03):
And that CGM is really like anelectronic doctor that's walking
around and advising you onexactly what your body is doing.
Graham (06:11):
Amazing and one of the things that was really
eye-opening to me, becauseobviously, going down this
journey, I started to understandwhich foods are more likely to
cause a spike in blood sugar.
You were literally watchingwhich foods cause a spike, but
after you know, I learned fromyou that actually stress and how
good a sleep you get canactually have a big impact on
(06:33):
your blood glucose levels aswell.
I think that's something reallyimportant for the listeners to
take seriously, because if youhave a very stressful life and
you are not getting a greatamount of sleep, then changing
your eating lifestyle isn'tnecessarily going to get you
across the finish line as wellor as effectively as if you had
(06:57):
your sleep and your stresslevels within an acceptable
range.
An acceptable range and Iwanted to jump on to given the
fact that our podcast focus ison the ketogenic way of eating
or low-carb, high-fat, how doesa CGM provide insights into how
dietary choices like keto orcarnivore impact blood glucose
in real time?
So maybe you can mention someof the foods that cause
(07:20):
unexpected glucose spikes thatmaybe people aren't totally
aware of.
Stephen (07:24):
Certainly, Every person's body will react
differently to foods outside ofthe more obvious ones.
If you're consumingultra-processed foods, if you're
having anything with sugar itdoesn't matter, by the way,
whether the sugar is coming froma natural source or a source
that is manufactured.
So take high fructose cornsyrup.
(07:45):
You'll note in your CGM rightaway that there will be a
massive and very quick onset ofa sugar spike, which people
generally don't realize, even ifthey're not diabetic, is very
unhealthy.
It's causing a metabolicprocess in your body that is
actually quite damaging and canpromote oxidative stress.
(08:07):
One of the things that anyperson should be trying to avoid
, and particularly a diabetic,is these inherent spikes.
Now there's strategies you canuse around the dietary process
that we've touched on before.
So, for instance, if you'refocusing more on keto rather
than the strict carnivore, thenyou would go to an ancestral
diet process that's more commonto what we experienced over the
(08:29):
last half century, and that is,you consume your salads, which
will create almost a cushion touse a non-medical word a cushion
in your stomach to slow theabsorption rate of the foods
that follow, Meaning that youstart with your salads, then you
add your proteins, then yourhigh fats and if, for some
reason, you are going to consumesomething that may be sweet,
(08:52):
although it's good to limit thequantity of it, the safest way
to reduce the likelihood andthis can, according to the
glucose goddess, can be upwardsto 70% reduction in the
potential spike by just simplypracticing a method of consuming
food the way I just described.
Graham (09:08):
So, Stephen, maybe you can take us back to a little
over a year ago when you, youknow, the day before you ever
had actually tried CGM for thefirst time.
Maybe you can help the audienceunderstand what are some of the
first steps someone with type 2diabetes should take to start
using a CGM, including anyconversations you recommend they
(09:30):
might have with their healthcare provider, if you believe
that that's something that youwould encourage.
Stephen (09:37):
Yeah.
So with respect to the healthcare provider, naturally, if
they write you a script,depending on your health care
insurance, from your employer orfrom something, perhaps you're
funding yourself.
More often than not.
If you're and I know it's thecase in the US and Canada if
you're in a situation where yourequire this because you're
(09:57):
deemed a diabetic and usuallyit's three HA1Cs that are
required, depending on theprovince and the country or the
state, but generally if you havethree and, based on our ratings
, if you have three bloodresults that show that you're
above 7.2, for instance, they'regoing to deem you as a diabetic
(10:18):
.
Really, anything between 6.6and 7, they pretty much consider
you a diabetic.
Anything between 6.6 and 7,they pretty much consider you a
diabetic.
6.0 to 6.5 or 6.1 to 6.5 isconsidered pre-diabetic.
So generally, the determinationis that in fact, you're a
diabetic.
The CGM should be a naturalconversation with your
healthcare provider because it'sengineered for type 2 diabetics
(10:42):
.
There are roughly two majormanufacturers of these items
that I'm aware of, and the onethat I use is quite well known
from Abbott Laboratories, and itwas research that I did on my
own.
I had already had the mediaglucose testing with the sticks,
which again, as I was earlierasked, caused quite a bit of
(11:03):
discomfort.
You're not overly encouragedabout stabbing yourself with a
needle to check your blood.
There's some anxiety associatedwith that, for sure Whereas
with the CGM one of the benefitsyou can see with your
healthcare providers you can geton with your day and just do a
quick check after a meal andwhen I say after a meal, you're
going to see a rise in yoursugar.
It should normalize back towhere it was after two hours.
(11:23):
If you're to your earlier point, getting a good insulin
response, it shouldn't prevailfor three or four hours after.
And the one thing that I findparticularly beneficial is if I
have eaten something, perhaps,that had hidden sugar that
wasn't disclosed, I'll see it inmy CGM, which gives me the
(11:44):
option of going for a walk afterthat meal and managing it down.
I still believe the best way tonaturally manage your sugar is
to do something as simple aswalk for 10 or 15 or 20 minutes,
and the CGM is great for thatbecause it'll actually show the
decline of your sugar as youcontinue to exercise.
For instance, last night Ijumped on my elliptical because
(12:06):
my sugar showed insanely highratings, and I wasn't entirely
sure why, because I'd beenfasting for most of the day and
I believe there was acombination of factors, one of
which was because I had beenfasting and probably had an
elevation in cortisol and thatcaused the first bit of food
that I was eating to almostcause almost like an
overreaction of my system.
(12:27):
So I then went and didapproximately 50% more exercise
than I normally would do on theelliptical, which was about
three miles, and my sugar cameback to normal.
And one of the things I wouldadvise too is that these are not
perfect in terms of theirtechnology, so it's always good
to still have a proper stickglucose test so that you can
(12:47):
verify that if the result you'regetting from the CGM is in fact
consistent with your meter,because obviously taking the
blood sample gram is veryconclusive to like 99%, whereas
the CGMs at times can be off alittle bit and certainly will
lag a trend if your sugar isrising or dropping.
So those are one of the thingsthat you have to be
(13:10):
conscientious aboutunderstanding when it comes to
CGMs.
Graham (13:12):
Very good insight.
I actually wasn't aware thatthe finger stick was the most
accurate way of getting thatdata, so that's really good for
myself and the listeners to know.
So for listeners who arethinking about getting a CGM or
maybe they're just starting out,how should they read and
interpret the CGM data, liketime and range or glucose trends
(13:34):
, so that they can make informeddecisions about their diet or
lifestyle?
How do they turn the data intoknowledge and, hopefully, action
?
Stephen (13:43):
Yeah, so very, very good point.
When people are first startingout, there is a tendency and I'm
certainly an example, and I hada male nurse explain, because
this particular person had a lotof experience with his patients
that had been using these CGMsand he said you know, one of the
key things is not to become, ashe described, neurotic about
(14:04):
your research and analyzing it.
I'm sure I'm way above the norm.
I'll candidly admit that,because it's just a nature of my
personality.
I want to know what the food isdoing to my body.
I want to know in a particularsituation, how, based on how I'm
feeling in that moment, if it'sreflected in my sugar, I'm
rarely surprised.
I can actually feel likeyesterday when my sugar was in
(14:25):
the 12s and things and rising.
You know, I said to my wifeI've got to get on the
elliptical, I don't feel well,and so it started to present
symptoms, Graham, that wereconsistent with almost like a
flu.
And it sounds counterintuitiveIn the absence of a CGM.
If I was feeling that way, Iwould probably go and lie down,
which is the worst thing I couldhave done, because then I'm not
(14:47):
processing the sugar in mybloodstream.
So the beauty of the CGM, in myopinion, is that it allows you
to make a decision in near realtime for what actually is
happening to your body, Whereas,conversely, before I had a CGM,
I either had to psych myselfinto using one of these sticks
and checking my blood, which Ithink I'm probably at least a
baseline norm of I wouldn't doit.
(15:09):
I'd only do it when I absolutelyfelt I needed to, and sometimes
my wife would even say to me oh, when's the last time you
checked your blood?
So sometimes the only time Ifound out that my sugar was
elevated was the trend line formy A1C, which by then is too
late because I've had these upand down spikes and done damage
to my organs for 90 days.
(15:30):
So last night I caught this,understood it, did the analysis
and all the data was recorded inmy CGM for me to analyze.
So when I ate, what I ate andall of this you put in manually,
but it tabulates all thisinformation and you can get
great insight into, okay, well,I know tomorrow when I eat I
(15:51):
have healthy meal that's denseand satiating, like the
carnivore diet and the keto dietprovides.
Because if you and this is areally interesting example if
you fast, and then the firstthing you eat is McDonald's or
something that we all know isnot healthy, you will get a
(16:12):
horrendously high spike and youwill feel very unwell because
you're not giving your body thenutrition it needs because of
the fast.
So sometimes the insulinreaction can be quite aggressive
and although the CGM doesn'tmeasure insulin, the knockdown
effects of high sugar obviouslycan reflect information related
(16:33):
to insulin that can be latertested in a lab, if you think
that you're starting toredevelop insulin resistance,
for example.
Graham (16:39):
Excellent.
And so, stephen, what are someof the beginner mistakes that
people might make with a, youknow, with a CGM, and how can
they avoid those potentialmistakes?
Or what kind of learnings canyou provide to help people get
the most accurate and usefuldata that they can actually do
something about?
Stephen (16:59):
You know, it's really interesting because it's kind of
over the course of the year,because I'm in the gym three,
four times a week and even mydoctor when I was diagnosed and
my newest family doctor lookingat me.
I don't fit a stereotypicalprofile for a diabetic.
I'm not overweight, in factjust the opposite.
I'm not what they call skinnyfat either.
(17:20):
I don't consume a lot ofalcohol and I drink water with
lemon to deal with any potentialfatty liver consequences.
I see a naturopath.
I have my blood work done on aregular basis.
I don't fit the profile.
And between walking and goingto the gym I'm probably
averaging somewhere between 30to 70 minutes a day and the
(17:42):
recommended amount is 70, Ibelieve, 70 to 150 minutes a
week.
So I'm well above that.
And just my lifestyle in thecountry as well.
I do quite a bit of stuffoutside when we're not
overwhelmed with bugs, so again,I'm giving myself lots of
opportunities to burn offcalories and still I'm still a
(18:05):
managed diabetic.
It begs the question well, howcan this be and the CGM will
give you evidence to supportwhat it is exactly that's going
on at the time.
Are you stressed out?
Are you sitting too much?
Are you engaged in activitiesthat perhaps are overworking
your brain, but your body's idle, and so you're able to see.
(18:27):
Well, you know what it's timefor me to get up and walk around
the house if the bugs are asbad as they are right now here,
or do something on an exercisemachine or row machine.
I have both.
So you can generally look atthis CGM as a means of
indicating oh okay, well, thisis how I avoid this particular
spike, and I call it taking thehead off the snake.
(18:47):
If the snake is venomous andpoisonous which is how I
characterize diabetes by seeingthat spike, I'm like oh yeah,
okay, well, you know what.
I'm going to take control ofthat by jumping on the
elliptical and within 20, 25minutes I'll see a change in my
sugar because there's a 15minute delay.
So already with the first pedalor two, I'm working in the
(19:10):
right direction.
You just won't see it initiallyin the CGM results and soon
enough, after 20, 25 minutes oflight work on the elliptical or
just a light walk, it's amazinghow quickly your sugar will
normalize after a meal or aftera stressful situation.
Graham (19:25):
Yeah, I'm reminded of that every time I go for a walk.
Now I can kind of hear youencouraging me along, knowing
it's having an instant effect onmy blood sugar levels and
insulin response, which is verysatisfying.
So our audience includes activeindividuals, including some in
the military.
How can the CGM data helpoptimize exercise routines for
(19:50):
better glucose control and arethere differences in how
exercise impacts glucose on alow-carb diet?
Stephen (19:56):
Yeah.
So if we take the military asan example, I mean one of the
advantages to using a CGM is, Iwould describe as preventative.
I'm not entirely current.
It's been a number of yearssince I was in the military.
Whether or not what they call amedical classification will
impact your file with thediagnosis of diabetes I'm not
(20:17):
clear on that for Canada or theUS, but let's presume that it's
in your best interest to stay ashealthy as you can.
If you wish to stay in whatthey call your promotional
window, meaning that you havethe opportunity to move up the
ranks, and that's likely goingto be in question if you have
any significant health concerns,you can end up with a medical
(20:38):
category that prevents you frombeing promoted.
Generally, military people wouldbe incentivized to be as
healthy as possible, also by thenature of their work that they
want to be at the very best,because the demands that are
required in the military can beextreme at times, especially in
our current world climate.
So that would be one incentive.
I think that most militarypeople would align with.
Most people who are in themilitary are task-centric and
(21:01):
task-oriented and enjoy theability to control or manage
outcomes, especially as theyrelate to their own physical
health.
So certainly the CGM, they'llknow through their exercise
routines that they have betterglucose control and certainly
that particular types ofexercise have different impacts
on glucose, for instance.
And again I want to stress thatthere's nothing wrong with
(21:23):
weight training.
Just the opposite is quite goodfor you because you're building
a metabolic resistance, you'rebuilding that agility in your
system to be able to deal withdifferent forms of stress.
And again, this is acute stresson the muscles, which will
cause sugar to go to the muscles, which will increase the amount
of glucose that was resident infat and push it the pancreas
(21:45):
will push it into yourbloodstream so you can use that
energy to actually lift thoseweights.
I mean, it's an importantprocess, it's a natural process.
What's more subtle and moreappropriate for after meals is
for an individual to go for awalk and help the body naturally
process the glucose that's inthe food.
That's about the healthiestthing I've learned from using a
(22:07):
CGM for me, and there would beno way for me to be able to
state that if I didn't wear aCGM every day.
Graham (22:13):
Nice and let's move from exercise over to stress and
sleep.
We talked about this already,so we've already heard that
stress and sleep we talked aboutthis already, so we've already
heard that stress and sleep canaffect glucose levels.
Can you explain how CGMs canhelp users understand these
factors and manage them in thecontext of type 2 diabetes?
Stephen (22:31):
Yes, a great question.
Even this morning I noticedthat my sugar, probably from the
night before when it was quiteerratic again while I was
fasting, and perhaps becausesometimes we're affected.
Incidentally, I want to mention, before getting directly to the
question, for the benefit of ofthe listeners, that if you, if
you eat perhaps less healthy towhat your typical diet would be,
(22:53):
on a call it this weekend, thison a Saturday on, you may not
see much of an impact onSaturday, but you'll have a
legacy effect.
In Sunday and Monday You'llstill be trying to get your
sugar back under control becausethere'll be indices that will
show up that are not consistentwith what you've normally
experienced.
They will pop in there andyou'll go wow, you know, my
(23:13):
sugar seems really high and Ihaven't even eaten for the last
six hours, or I fasted lastnight.
So again, the CGM allows you todo that self-analysis, that
self-diagnosis, and go okay,well, what is it that changed?
Well, I didn't get much sleep.
Okay, well, that's certainly afactor, because when we're
overtired, it puts a load on oursystem and stresses us, and
(23:36):
what's the consequence of that?
It's cortisol.
So when cortisol is released,it's absolutely going to cause
an elevation in sugar.
Why?
Because that's what cortisoldoes.
Cortisol is a stress hormone, socortisol tells the body which
is appropriate when we are instressful situations to again
much like food is secrete moreglucose into the body to use it.
(23:58):
The problem with the stresshormone is we don't actually
need it.
So what happens is thatelevated glucose sits in your
bloodstream to no effect.
It's not actually being used byanything.
So if we took a simple examplefrom an oversimplified example
from the history of humanity,being chased by something that
was threatening and we didn'thave the means to protect
(24:20):
ourselves other than running,then it was very appropriate for
our body to release cortisoland fire neurons and shoot high
glucose into our system, becauseit was our fight or flight
response.
This is the difference betweenthe parasympathetic and
sympathetic body systems.
So when we're in an elevatedstate of stress that is chronic,
(24:40):
we're always in that fight andflight response, which is highly
, highly, highly oxidative forour bodies and can lead to
things like diabetes and cancer.
We all know that.
There's plenty of researchmaterial that the readers can
look into on their own todiscover what the root causes
are.
The quality of our food is aroot cause.
So what we're really trying todo with the CGM is going okay.
(25:01):
Here's my baseline.
These are the things I've done,whether good, bad or
indifferent in terms of food, interms of stress, in terms of
sleep and, specifically, as wetalk about sleep and stress,
what really what we're saying iswhat can I do now that I know
that it's probably just as badas a piece of pizza?
Do, now that I know that it'sprobably just as bad as a piece
of pizza, if that's what you had, what can I do about it?
Well, in my case, it'smindfulness.
(25:23):
So you used a great exampleearlier, graham.
You said hey, steve, I go for awalk and I think about you and
I practice grounding and I thinkabout being in a state of grace
and thinking about as I walkthrough the woods, I'm grounding
, I'm in nature, and so forth.
These are all very importantthings, whether it's Japan and
(25:43):
in the Far East, all the way tothe West.
They've proven time and timeagain that being out in nature
and getting fresh air, as ourparents used to describe it, is
very, very important toresetting our metabolic rate,
and you will see that in the CGM.
You'll see, as you're walkingand doing these things and
relaxing, that your sugar willdrop.
You'll see, too, when you'rewearing a CGM.
(26:04):
I had an example where I wasbuilding a timber frame
structure with a contractor andhe slipped and threw a 200 and
some pound beam at me and I hadto catch it on a 14 foot ladder,
which was just way too muchweight, and I saw my baseline
sugar double.
In 20 minutes.
I went from 6.1 to 12.8.
(26:26):
And that was a great example, aterrifying one, but a great
example of just how responsiveour bodies are to highly
stressful situations.
Graham (26:36):
Wow, that could have ended up much worse, so I'm glad
it didn't.
You had actually touched onthis a little bit earlier.
When you're doing a fingerprick test, you're getting an
instant and up-to-date result.
But you kind of touched on thefact that, because CGMs measure
interstitial fluid, which is thefluid just below the skin, not
(26:58):
blood glucose directly, whichthis can cause slight delays or
maybe even discrepancies in theresults.
How should users account forthis when making decisions
around food and when to eat?
Stephen (27:11):
Yes, it's so important because I had that precise
example this morning.
Here I was, I fasted, I saw aglucose rise yesterday, didn't
feel well enough to even eat tocombat it, so I just decided to
ride it out and fast, because atleast I get the benefit of
antophagy, because I would havebeen fasting for about 17 to 20
(27:33):
hours by the time I ate thismorning, and I'm an early riser.
So by the time I ate today Iwas already up for about four
hours and or possibly five.
And when I ate I ate the usualcarnivore, which was bacon and
eggs and high fat Greek yogurt,and I didn't see any rise
actually in my sugar at all.
(27:53):
In fact it went the oppositeway, which is astounding because
my sugar was trending to eightand change again, and which is
high even with the was trendingto eight and change again, which
is high even with the Donphenomena, and the Don phenomena
is the natural process of yourbody when it switches from be as
high as mine was evidence withthe CGM.
So I alternate between fasting,extended fastings and in the
(28:14):
traditional definition that'smore than 24 hours.
But I don't do that because I'mtoo cortisol sensitive, so I'll
do a fasting for 12 hours and 12hours.
So, for instance, I'll havebreakfast and then I won't eat
again until seven o'clock atnight, and now that means that
I'm taking a 12, 12 hour breakon food.
In between I won't get into astate of antophagy unless I'm
(28:34):
doing more of the 18 to 20 hourrange minimum, so I kind of
alternate.
So yesterday would have been anexample of taking advantage of
the ontophagy, which isessentially cleaning out, call
it, the dysfunctional cells thatare in the body, giving the
body a chance to go into a purehealing mode because it's not
worried about trying to digestfood and deal with that sort of
thing.
So you know, this was a veryproductive overall result that I
(28:58):
was able to, in 24 hours, gofrom dangerously high sugar in
my opinion and a doctor'sopinion to something far more
moderate and to turn it into anadvantage, all because of the
data I was getting from the CGM.
Graham (29:10):
Very, interesting data, stephen.
The ketogenic diet is low incarbohydrate foods.
By design, carbs turn intoglucose and therefore somebody
on a carnivore or ketogenic dietshould have results of lower
(29:31):
blood sugar levels over time,over time.
Now that you've had a CGM forover a year and you've been
doing the keto carnivorelifestyle for, I think, even
longer than that, are thereunique benefits or challenges
when using CGMs alongside aketogenic or carnivore diet,
(29:51):
particularly for people who havetype 2 diabetes?
Stephen (29:55):
I don't believe there is.
I think, a different way that Iwould approach answering that
question is to use myself as anexample.
When my sugar was out ofcontrol, it exacerbated my
anxiety and caused even morecortisol to be released because
of my PTSD, and so it was avicious cycle, and so my IBS
(30:16):
would react, which would causefurther anxiety, especially if I
was traveling somewhere whereyou know.
All of a sudden I required arestroom.
You know that's a difficultthing if you're on the road and
traveling in an area that you'renot familiar, or if you're
sitting in an airport or you'reabout to get on a plane, so you
can imagine how difficult thatcan be.
What I found is extraordinaryover the last year of this
(30:38):
healing process, I've haddiabetes or diagnosed with
diabetes since I was 50.
I'm now 58.
They say that you probably havehad diabetes for 10 or 15 years
before it's actually diagnosed,only because the symptoms are
usually what draw people like meinto the doctor to say, hey,
I'm not feeling well and I seemto be packing on weight, and
that's when they discover you'vegot a glucose problem or you're
(31:00):
having issues with healing.
It's taking longer forabrasions or cuts to heal, or
you're getting neuropathy inyour feet.
So all of these things areleading to this metabolic
dysfunction and the consequencesthat it's having on your organs
and when your skin and nervesare certainly a component of
that.
So I think generally, whetherit's keto or whether it's
(31:21):
carnivore, or if you're wantingto see if cutting out ultra
processed foods and movingtowards keto, carnivore for you,
you're going to see encouragingresults in your sugar, at least
a trend line to suggest thatnotwithstanding.
You know if you have aparticularly stressful day, you
could throw out you know, thefood part of it per se.
(31:41):
But still better outcome thanyou would have if you were
continuing, as I was, to try tofind your way with ignorance and
only relying on your A1Cresults every 90 days, which are
stressful in themselves, tofind out whether you're doing
better.
And again, my objective always,graham, was to make sure that I
could find a natural solution,because trying the drugs that
they initially put me on made meeven more sick, made my IBS
(32:06):
worse, increased my anxiety,destroyed my quality of life.
I had a difficult time goingout to even go get groceries
unless I had not eaten for atleast 16, 17 or 18 hours like
literally, so that there wasnothing in my system that could
cause a IBS flare up.
So that's not a way to liveyour life and I'm grateful that
(32:28):
you know companies like AbbottLaboratories have created these
things because I can make theseadjustments and continue to
build on the knowledge.
And it captures all thatinformation for you.
So it will show you days inrange, show percentage in range,
it will show your trending A1Cand, yes, as you had asked
earlier, sometimes those arewrong.
I've got my real blood testresults and sometimes they've
(32:51):
been actually lower in realityto the CGM A1C rating and other
times it's been slightly higher.
So one of the important things Iwant to touch on is where you
wear the CGM.
They were engineered to be wornin the fatty tissue at the back
of the arm.
The problem for some of us andI'm certainly in dialogue with
(33:12):
Abbott Laboratories on a regularbasis about this I don't have
fat there on my body becauseI've been lifting weights since
I was 16.
I have to put it in other areasof my body that it has not
actually been proven to workLike, for instance, I have it
now in what people would callthe love handles.
I have it in that area of mybody, because even behind my
(33:33):
shoulder blades I ran out offatty tissue and I was bending
the needles all the time andthat's quite painful.
It's like a fish hug and you endup rolling over on it in the
middle of the night and it willwake you because it's and when
the needle's bent, it doesn'tregister your blood sugar
properly.
So now you're getting bad datainto your system.
(33:54):
So and I know bothmanufacturers that we use in
North America are really good atreplacing them when that
happens and they also have atendency to fall off.
So one of the things thatathletes can use is the Nexcare
Tegaderm, which is like a clearbandage that you can put over
the CGM for the two-week period.
And I would strongly advisepeople to not put the CGM in the
(34:16):
same spot, graham, because youwill get a skin irritation with
the Tegaderm, especially becauseyou're covering up the skin for
two weeks and your skin needsto breathe.
So it's best to if you can,move it to the opposite side of
the body in the same location,if that's an area where you're
getting pretty good rating.
Graham (34:34):
Really good to know.
I actually didn't know thateither.
If that's an area where you'regetting pretty good rate, Really
good to know.
I actually didn't know thateither.
So, thinking about ourlisteners, sort of you know,
some people at home might bethinking I'm looking to put my
type 2 diabetes in remission, orI'm not quite diabetic, maybe
I'm pre-diabetic, or maybe it'sjust going in that direction,
which was the scenario that Iwas in a couple of years ago.
(34:56):
So you know, people justwanting to avoid getting that
diagnosis altogether throughdiet.
How can a CGM support long-termglucose monitoring and help
track progress towards reducingmedication or achieving
remission?
Based on your more than ayear's experience, yeah, I'm
sorry.
Stephen (35:14):
I'm going to have to ask you to repeat that.
For some reason I wasn't ableto hear that.
Graham (35:17):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Listeners at home that arelooking to put their type 2
diabetes in remission.
Or they are pre-diabetic anddon't want to get that diagnosis
, or they're on their way tobeing pre-diabetic and they want
to avoid that diagnosisaltogether through diet.
How can a CGM support long-termglucose monitoring and help
(35:42):
track progress towards reducingmedication or achieving that
remission?
Stephen (35:46):
Well, I think there's two elements to that.
I think first and foremost isthe short term.
I've had a few friends that saywell, you know, I'd be
interested to see what my body'sdoing.
These things are prettyexpensive.
They're $120 Canadian for justtwo weeks.
That seems like a lot of money.
And I ask well, what do youthink dialysis costs?
And what value do you put onyour eyesight?
(36:08):
Because I have a friend who'slosing his eyesight from
diabetes and has needlesinjected directly into the
eyeballs to prevent going blind.
So, and how much do you likeyour toes?
I mean, for me my situation maybe different than others
economically, but there are alot of things I can cut out of
my life, including a tank of gasto have the CGM if that's what
(36:29):
it came down to Because, again,the impact on the quality of
life, I think, necessitateshaving it.
As far as the longer term, ofcourse, you know, here I am on a
trend line over the course ofthe last year where I'm
essentially ignored by thediabetic clinic here locally,
which is a good thing.
It's the club you want to bekicked out of, because my sugars
(36:51):
, without any medication, areeither non-diabetic or
pre-diabetic, and the last timemy sugar was out of control, I
was in the high nines and thatwas my A1c.
So my A1c is now hoveringbetween 5.8 and 6.2, which is
considering the fact that I wasa full-blown diabetic and I'm
(37:13):
now doing it naturally.
I mean literally what we'redescribing here today.
The worst thing is going tohappen to you, diabetic or not,
is you're going to get healthierand you're going to see the
results as you age.
That will show up in differentways in terms of your quality of
life, the energy that you haveduring the day, you know.
It naturally leads to thequestion in terms of long-term
and I kind of refer to Dr Addyon this is how do you define
(37:37):
healthspan and how do you definelifespan?
I mean, if the last 20 years ofyour life are suffering as a
uncontrolled diabetic that'shighly medicated, with all the
consequential side effects, isthat what you want?
Enjoy what it is you believeyou enjoy, until you get to a
(37:58):
situation like me where even thethings you thought you enjoy
are literally making youextremely sick.
So that's certainly the path Itook out of ignorance.
But the whole point of what youand I are trying to do is to
say to people okay, maybe you'renot a diabetic, but maybe it
wouldn't hurt to have your sugarmonitored for a couple of weeks
and just see how food affectsyou and just cut that food out.
Maybe you can't eat mangoes.
(38:18):
Maybe you get a bad reactionfrom watermelon, despite its
fiber density.
You may be the kind of personthat can't eat many blueberries,
or strawberries react in astrange way to your sugar,
regardless of stacking, as theycall it, which was what we
described earlier, with salad,protein, high fat and then fruit
.
So these are all insights thatyou can engineer.
(38:39):
I call it kind of designerglucose Graham that you can
design a solution that is moreholistic with respect to your
physical health, your mentalhealth, brain fog, well-being
and just general health, in away that puts you in the
driver's seat, because you havethe information long before your
doctor would ever have it.
(39:01):
You're dealing with only a15-minute delay and I'm highly
incentivized, just by the natureof my personality, to be in a
state of constant improvement orcontinuous improvement, and
this constant glucose metergives me the information I need
to minimize the consequentialshort-term spikes and the very
consequential long-term impactsof having these daily spikes in
(39:24):
food unknowingly affect myhealth, as it had over the last
number of years.
Graham (39:29):
Love the term designer glucose.
Stephen, I've got an idea for at-shirt for you in the future.
It sums it up so nicely, and sothe ketogenic lifestyle, like
any lifestyle change, can betrying at times.
How can a CGM, how can CGM data, empower listeners to stay
motivated with their ketogenicor carnivore diet and make
(39:52):
sustainable lifestyle changes?
Stephen (39:54):
in your experience, I think it has to be a little bit
of self-reflection again anddetermining well, what is your
mission statement?
What are you trying to achieve?
And to be kind to yourselfthrough that process.
You're going to have setbacks.
There are times when you havefriends over, as I did on the
weekend, where you may indulge alittle more than normal, you
may stay up a little later.
You may put more stress on yourbody as a result.
(40:15):
None of us are saying that weneed to lock ourselves away in a
closet.
No one is saying, oh, you can'tgo on a cruise now and have a
piece of cake, but you're goingto watch what that piece of cake
does and maybe next time youdecide it's not worth it because
maybe you feel like you havethe flu.
And I actually want to jump onthat for a second.
And I'm touching wood to makesure that, metaphorically or
(40:36):
otherwise, that I don't invitesomething in.
You know, they say words are.
We call words spelling becausethe cast spells.
But I have been without any formof illness for this entire
period.
I've been wearing a CGM and Idon't think that's coincidental.
I think it's by design, becausemy body is not being redirected
.
I'm not doing things to my bodythat compromise my immune
(40:58):
system and so, consequently,despite the flus that went
around over the winter, despitethe colds that are going around
now, the gastrointestinal issuesthat I used to get when I used
to get sick, pre-diagnoseddiabetic, or even as a diabetic,
I would get it way, way worsethan anyone else in the family,
because I was immunocompromised.
Now that I have these thingsunder control, that's not the
(41:19):
case, and so I'm repairing mybody and creating a call it a
preventative shield by thenature of my lifestyle, and I
find that highly inspiring.
I find it and hence the wholereason why we're sharing this
with other people, because Ibelieve I'm not alone in this
when you have the contrast ofwhere you know you literally
have to know where washrooms arearound, a visit for groceries,
(41:43):
because your sensitivity is thatsevere to where you don't even
think about it anymore, which iswhat most of us take for
granted until we can't.
And I'm quite confident thatone of the terrible things about
diabetes and having highelevated sugar is, at a certain
point, it's so much sugar inyour bloodstream, your body just
goes.
We're going to let go ofeverything, we're just going to
get rid of it, and it'll come.
(42:04):
Obviously they know that itcomes through urine, but I also
think you know it'll cause thesethe consequences of IBS as well
.
Graham (42:11):
Such a good point around .
The fact that you're, on adaily basis, putting yourself in
the most optimal state meansthat your body's immune system,
potentially, is also in the mostoptimal state, and you've seen
firsthand results of that.
We've talked in previouspodcasts about the fact that the
(42:32):
one you know, maybe unintendedconsequence to all this and I
think we'll talk about this morein a future podcast but one of
the unintended consequences tothis is we just don't get as
sick as we used to or at all,and that is that's another club
that you do want to get kickedout of is the getting sick all
the time club.
So, stephen, last couple ofquestions here Are CGMs only for
(42:55):
type two diabetics or cananyone benefit from this amazing
tool regardless of whether theyhave that diagnosis or not?
Stephen (43:03):
Yeah.
So before I answer thatquestion, I will say I am not
paid, endorsed or endorsing anyparticular CGM.
I can only speak to the onethat I use.
So I say this with the highestdegree of transparency.
I am not on anyone's payroll,but I know for a fact because
I'm probably on a friendly listto the call center for Abbott
Laboratories because I'm alwaysasking similar questions.
(43:25):
Well, how come you guys don'tpromote this for other, like
just healthy people, as apreventative measure, or as I'm
suggesting?
I even suggested to you youknow that, graham.
I said, hey, let me give youone of mine, wear it for a
couple of weeks and see whathappens.
And I know you're open to that,but lots of people are not.
And what I find, sometimes even, is that people are reluctant
(43:48):
to get the information that theywould need because they're
afraid of what they're going tofind out.
And the problem with that isthat we know from people with
cancer and other really seriousillnesses that more often than
not they've avoided going to thedoctor for an extended period
until they have an incident.
And I was no different.
I mean, I didn't know there wasanything wrong with me until
(44:09):
they told me I was a diabetic.
I was going to the gym, I waswalking, I had a sure busy
lifestyle with, at the time,much younger kids, but I mean I
was doing what I thoughteverybody else was doing.
It's just that my body reacteddifferently and I had a legacy
of other traumas that probablymade me more sensitive to it
than others.
So, yeah, I'm a strong advocatefor people to wear these things
(44:31):
.
I wished I had this 10 yearsago because I probably wouldn't
have continued intermittentlyand unknowingly do damage to my
body.
Do I believe that I've healed mybody entirely?
I don't know, but I certainlyknow I'm, in a way, better state
than I would be otherwise.
So, yes, I'm an advocate forpeople trying it just to see
what would happen.
They're not painful.
It's way more painful prickingyour finger, you know, six times
(44:53):
a day to see what your glucoseis doing.
Then slap something on that youbarely feel going in and you
just have to be careful youdon't knock it off and you have
to be careful that you don'tbend it.
And it takes a little bit toget used to the app and, yes,
you have to input yourinformation into it and all that
.
And be diligent about it.
Yes sir, yes sir.
Graham (45:13):
I think I lost internet connection on my side, so why
don't we try doing that questionover again?
I do apologize because that wasa fantastic answer, but I know
it stopped recording like threequarters of it.
Diabetics, or, in your opinion,can anyone benefit, regardless
(45:36):
of whether they have a diagnosisor not?
And I think it's important tonote that neither one of us are
sponsored by any CGM companies.
We're not on anybody's payroll.
You have an experience with oneof those tools or one of the
brands, but, in your opinion,can anyone benefit, regardless
of whether they have that type 2diabetic diagnosis or not?
Stephen (45:56):
Well, a lot of these companies, or the two that I
know of, I'm not quite sure.
Why do not necessarily promotehealthy people in using these
devices?
Because they haven't beentested on people that are
healthy.
But I don't understand why you,as an individual that isn't
necessarily looking for a labresult, wouldn't at least try it
(46:17):
to see how food affects you, tosee how stress affects you.
I mean, we do tests for sleepapnea and we have studies where
they study you while you sleep.
I see this no differently so youcan follow your regular pattern
and lifestyle and see what itis you need to change in order
to course correct and avoid thekind of illnesses that I have
(46:38):
and often result with otherpeople, and I've actually
suggested this to people who say, hey look, I will.
I even suggested this to you.
I'll give you one of these tryfor two weeks and the worst
that's going to happen is you'llbe more aware of what your body
is doing with the food that youeat and you'll be more mindful
of stressors throughout your day.
(46:58):
That affect your sugar now.
Maybe you can do something aboutit.
Maybe you don't need to wear itafter that.
Maybe you get another one insix months and see if the same
things are happening.
But if you use it to correctyour diet and to correct your
lifestyle, then what's the worstthing that's going to happen?
You're going to be healthier.
Graham (47:19):
Amazing and this is the last question, but I think it's
an important one you hadmentioned a couple of downsides
to the CGM, because we obviouslyhave talked about a lot of the
upsides and, like anything,there's going to be some
downsides.
One you mentioned costpotentially, and that's if
insurance isn't covering it, andthe potential skin issues with
actually having to press thisinto the slightly below the skin
.
Are there any other downsidesthat you've experienced, or did
(47:43):
we cover them with those two?
Stephen (47:44):
Well, there's one other thing that I just thought of,
because the app is tied to yourphone.
One of the things that somepeople can find annoying is if
you forget your phone and leaveit somewhere and you walk away
and you're too far from theconnection between the cgm and
your phone, you'll lose thatdata, and so it can be a little
(48:05):
bit annoying sometimes, becausethen you have to rescan the
sensor with your phone the backof your phone and it'll make a
little beep noise saying it'srecaptured the data, but you may
lose a bit of data, but mostpeople.
I don't think it's a hugelifestyle impact because most
people walk around with theirphones anyway, so you're just a
little bit more conscious ofthat, if you're wanting true
(48:26):
data as clean as possible.
You know true data as clean aspossible.
Graham (48:31):
That's, I think, the first time that I've heard our
phone addiction is actually anet benefit, first time that
I've heard our phone addictionis actually a net benefit.
That might just be the only one, but I think you know one of
the things that I have learned alot from you, stephen, and just
you know other podcasterstalking about the benefits of
CGMs is it's about taking yourhealth matters into your own
(48:52):
hands.
You now have the control versusleaving it up to somebody else
and unfortunately I think I canspeak for Stephen confidently
and myself it's critical to takethese matters into your own
hands.
That's how Stephen and Ifinally ended up getting the
results, the real results thatwe experienced.
(49:12):
When we relied on other people,when we relied on mainstream
advice that, you know, may ormay not be conflicted we weren't
getting the results that weneeded.
Once we dug into our results inmy case, I dug into the
mechanisms behind what causeshigh A1C and some of the other
blood markers that I wasexperiencing.
You did that.
(49:32):
You also took matters into yourown hands by, you know, taking
control over the CGM data andlooking at it yourself.
You ended up being your youknow your best healthcare worker
and at the end of the day,everyone in the healthcare
system are looking to do theright thing.
They are motivated in the rightway, in my opinion, but they
(49:53):
are, at the end of the day,secondary support compared to
you taking those health carematters into your own hands.
And I know because Stephen and Iwere able to do that we saw a
much different version ofourselves on the other side and
continue to do so and reallyencourage others to take control
, because, at the end of the day, you do have some choices, you
(50:15):
do have some options andhopefully this podcast gives you
some tips and tricks on.
You know what those options areto take more control over your
health.
Stephen, excellent summary ofyou.
Know how people can use a CGMand how they can use it for
their advantage.
Is there anything else you wantto share before we end the
(50:36):
podcast?
Stephen (50:36):
No, I think we covered everything, graham, and I really
appreciate the opportunity.
I think you did a greatsummation there at the end, I
couldn't have said it better.
Graham (50:44):
Amazing.
Well, thank you everyonelistening to another episode of
Lessons from the Keto-Verse.
We hope you enjoyed the episodeand learned a little bit.
You know, feel free to dropsome comments.
If you have any questions forStephen on his experience, he'd
be more than happy to respond.
Thanks everybody.
(51:04):
Thank you, stephen, and we willtalk to everybody next time.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Thanks for tuning into Lessons from the Keto-Verse
.
Join Stephen and Graham nexttime for more keto tips and
stories to fuel your health.
Subscribe, share and let's keepthe keto vibes going.
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