The "Animal" Documentary: Meat, Myths, and Modern Health

Link to the documentary "Animal": https://tv.apple.com/ca/movie/animal/umc.cmc.6rxcx3o5sz7epd1ocgz17k6qe

The myths about meat have shaped our health choices for over a century. In this eye-opening episode, we take a deep dive into the powerful new documentary "Animal" that's challenging everything we've been told about our natural human diet.

The documentary features an all-star lineup of medical professionals who've discovered that the path to optimal health runs counter to conventional wisdom. We explore how figures like Dr. Robert Kiltz, Dr. Anthony Chaffee, and Dr. Sean Baker—all initially trained in standard nutritional paradigms—found themselves questioning everything when they saw how animal-based diets transformed their patients' lives. From resolving fertility issues to eliminating suicidal thoughts, the clinical outcomes from carnivore diets have been nothing short of remarkable.

What struck us most was the historical context that explains how we arrived at our current anti-meat bias. The documentary traces this back to Ellen G. White, whose religious views influenced a young John Harvey Kellogg (yes, that Kellogg), followed by Ancel Keys' deeply flawed Seven Countries Study that cherry-picked data to villainize saturated fat. These ideological foundations—not scientific evidence—have shaped nutritional guidelines for decades.

The anthropological evidence presented is particularly compelling: during the Ice Age when plants were scarce, humans developed larger brains and grew taller. Only after switching to agriculture did we see decreases in height, brain size, and overall health. As Dr. Lisa Weidman so perfectly states in the film: "What you're putting in your mouth is either leading to health or harm."

Having both experienced dramatic health improvements through keto and carnivore approaches—Stephen's diabetes in remission without medication and Graham's freedom from chronic issues—we can personally attest to the documentary's central message. If you're questioning your own health journey or simply curious about an alternative perspective, "Animal" might just be the most important documentary you watch this year. It could change your relationship with food forever.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Lessons from the Keto-Verse.
Join Stephen and Graham as theyexplore the keto lifestyle with
tips, science and stories toboost your health.
This podcast isn't medicaladvice.
Consult your healthcare advisorfor any health-related issues.
Get ready to fuel your primalpower.

Graham (00:18):
Hello and welcome everybody to another episode of
Lessons from the Keto-Verse.
Today we are doing something alittle bit different.
We are going to be giving ouropinions, maybe a little bit of
a review, on a new documentarycalled Animal.
Just like it sounds,a-n-i-m-a-l.
Stephen and I both watched thisseparately on Apple TV+.

(00:41):
It's gonna be available invarious places to either rent or
purchase, so you can alwaysGoogle that and see if you can
find it if you're interested inwatching it.
Certainly, I think by the end ofthis you'll get the sense that
Stephen and I really enjoyed thedocumentary.

(01:01):
It's good timing, I guess,because our recent podcast we
talked about the biggestinfluencers in our journey
towards ketoverse, keto andcarnivore ways of eating or
lifestyles.
Many, many of the influencersthat we mentioned in that

(01:23):
episode and we welcome you tojump over to that episode
afterwards many were in thisdocumentary, so you got to hear
them firsthand talk a little bitabout their background, their
experience and how they came torealize that a keto carnivore
lifestyle was the healthiestlifestyle for them.
How does Animal describe theirnew documentary on the keto

(01:48):
carnivore way of eating?
They talk about exposing howoutdated agendas have warped our
natural relationship with meat,fueling ill health and big
pharma reliance, reclaiming ourancestral diet and you'll hear
that a few times, probably inthe podcast today Stephen,
welcome.
And what jumped out at youinitially with the documentary

(02:13):
that we watched?

Stephen (02:14):
Yeah, it's good to be here again.
Graham, thank you for the greatintro.
I was gobsmacked by Animal, tobe frank, for both personal and
professional reasons.
There were certain topics thatthey touched on that I had a
personal relationship with,either directly or intellect
directly, through my family, andI was also really touched by

(02:36):
the level of transparency andurgency of these particular
practitioners.
You know, we have Dr Kiltztalking about his own mental
illness.
We had Anthony Chaffee, youknow, pointing out that
genetically we're supposed tolive to, we're 120, based on
just genetic telomeres, whichjust blew my mind.
Even jumping to Maasai, who arefive inches taller than their

(03:01):
cohorts that are on a vegan diet, and the Maasai principally
consume only a meat diet.
They're taller, leaner and havea higher life expectancy.
So yeah, there are so manythings that we can certainly
speak to, but off the top of myhead, having only watched it
yesterday, it still has left animpression.
How about yourself?

(03:21):
What?
What inspired you about this?

Graham (03:24):
Yeah, I think that's a great summary for me and, you
know, certainly, having spentliterally thousands of hours
researching different ways ofeating and the impact of various
foods on our bodies and ourmetabolism, I didn't necessarily
hear anything that was brandnew, but I thought it was such

(03:46):
an excellent way of summarizingthe learnings, giving you kind
of the Cole's Notes or whateverthis out to a couple of family
members as well is.
The influencers that theyinterviewed had all gone down

(04:10):
this journey very similar to youand I, stephen, because their
health was going in the wrongdirection and they couldn't
figure it out.
In a lot of cases they aremedical doctors treating
patients and they were tellingtheir patients, you know, the
standard sort of procedure forwhat you should do when you're
getting some kind of metabolicdisorder.

(04:33):
Much like you, stephen, you'vebeen so transparent about
getting people on statins,getting people on metformin just
the usual prescription to tryand not reverse the issue but
slow down the issue.
And so each of theseinfluencers you know, like I
said, medical doctors, phds,have a heck of a lot of

(04:55):
credibility, but one of thethings that I noticed was how
healthy they were.
They were.
You know, I've heard stats thatover 60% of uh doctors uh in
the U S probably in the West areoverweight or obese.
Uh, tough to take advice fromsomebody whose uh personal

(05:16):
lifestyle isn't leading themdown a path of health.
Um, with each of these doctors,not only were they healthy, they
looked younger than theyactually were.
In a lot of cases they wereserious athletes and, you know,
even in their 50s and 60s theywere able to keep up with their

(05:40):
fitness regimen on the dietsthat they had chosen to go with,
which is primarily ananimal-based diet.
And so you heard a lot aboutback in the Ice Ages.
During the Ice Age, plants werebasically wiped out.
There was no way in that era togrow anything in the ground

(06:03):
because the ground was ice, andso our ancestors were forced to
go down a different path and eatanimals as their primary source
of nutrition, and this is whatturned humans into what humans
are today, and one of the thingsthat I really resonated.

(06:23):
I wrote down a bunch of linesthat really resonated with me.
One of them was Dr Weidmantalking about the fact that what
you're putting in your mouth iseither leading to health or
harm, and I thought that wassuch a profound short statement
and it really.
It really summed up the way Ilook at food these days, and I

(06:46):
don't know about you, stephen.
I'd love to hear your thoughtson this.
You know I go to family events,extended family events, where
I'm not, you know, sort ofpicking on anybody or trying to
isolate anybody or have themstand out, but I'm noticing what
people eat and I'm noticingwhat their general health is all

(07:08):
about.
And I've gotten to the pointnow where I can look at a
particular food and I can decideit's worth it like the ribeye
ground beef burgers that I hadtonight or it's not worth it.
The bag of chips, the cookie,the cake, whatever it is.
It's not that I don't love tohave a good oatmeal cookie every

(07:31):
now and then, it's just thatquestion what you're putting in
your mouth is either leading tohealth or harm, and I especially
notice that when I'm in socialfunctions.

Stephen (07:42):
Now, stephen, yeah, it's great that you mentioned
that.
Yeah, dr Lisa Weidman, as youmentioned, I had written exactly
the same thing and I think it'sfair to tell our viewers and
listeners that we do not liveside by each, we do not share
the same roof.
So here we are listening to formyself it was last night, I
believe, for you today, Iactually copied down the same
thing and, funny enough too, youmentioned about ancestral man,

(08:06):
mankind.
I found that fascinatingbecause when you build a little
bit more on what you describedby the narrators, so two and a
half million years ago, ourbrains were bigger, we were much
taller and, as I said at thebeginning of this, we could have
very well lived to 120 yearsold, assuming that we could
outrun the saber-toothed tigerand, um, it was interesting that

(08:29):
when we we, when essentiallyice age, to your point receded
12 and a half thousand years ago, that's when agriculture
started, yeah, well then westarted eating plants, which
we've learned um and I'm.
I'm keto, more keto thancarnivore, but I'm very
selective with plants I consumeand I'm always learning about
keto than carnivore, but I'mvery selective in what plants I
consume and I'm always learningabout them that they have a
defensive mechanism, which wasinteresting that they pointed

(08:50):
out.
But you know, you can't reallyargue with anthropology.
I mean, the records are there,they're more or less
indisputable.
But we lost height, we lostmuscle mass and it seems that it
was all centered around aboutthe time when we started eating
Our meals consisted of plantfood as well as meat.

(09:11):
So that was really a strikingpart of this overall
presentation.
That hit me.
And then, when we sort of fastforward to more modern times,
the other thing that that I knowyou and I want to talk about is
the fact in in 2025, accordingto this show animal that's on,

(09:36):
apple plus 10 corporations feed90% of the planet, and it all
goes back to this, this preconceived notion of being
anti-meats and pro-breakfast themost important meal of the day
all came from Kellogg, who waslike a celebrity doctor back in
the day which I did not know,and then teamed up with his

(09:56):
brother and started this wholeevolution or devolution if you
want to call it, with thispredominance of the food guys
insisting on 50% or 60% of whatwe're consuming needs to be in
some form of a carb, usuallyfrom a grain of one sort, or a
bean, lentil, that sort of thing.
And perhaps you know when youand I talked about this in

(10:17):
earlier missions, maybe when thesoil was really good, maybe
when it was my grandmother thatwas doing it in her garden, in
her backyard, the quality wasbetter.
But we're talking aboutcombating against industrial
farming now in every form,whether it's meat or whether
it's plants.
So I think it's prudent to takewhat they're saying to heart

(10:38):
and recognize that we have toadapt to the highest quality
outcomes.
Why have to adapt to thehighest quality outcomes?
Why?
Because what you said, you know, and what Dr Lisa said.
Lisa Weidman, is like every,every thing that you look at
before you put it in your mouthdecide is helping or harming,
and I actually naturally do that.
So, by way of example, yesterdayI wasn't feeling particularly
well but I had to do some stuff.

(10:59):
I had family here and we wentto a local restaurant.
I live in a very smallcommunity, so there aren't a lot
of options and there's alwaysone option that can be practiced
and that's abstaining.
So all I had was a club soda Ihad with some lime and lemon in
it, because I was so dialed intomy body I knew at that time, at
two o'clock in the afternoon, Ihad had eggs earlier and bacon

(11:22):
after I did my usual workout.
Didn't feel great after theeggs.
It could have been the eggswere a little bit off, I'm not
sure, but I didn't feel wellenough to want to eat again.
I didn't feel the socialpressure.
I really, candidly didn't careif my family was upset with me
eating.
I just simply said I wasn'tfeeling well enough to do it.

Graham (11:46):
Four hours or five hours later, my body healed itself
and I had a regular carnivoredinner.
How about yourself?
Yeah, there's a bunch of reallygood points that you brought up
there, and one of the thingsthat was an aha moment for me
and I had to hear the storyprobably six or seven times to
really understand it frombeginning to end, and I'm
certainly no expert on the storyof why we as a population
believe that saturated fat andred meat are harmful to us and

(12:11):
you mentioned Kellogg.
A woman by the name of Ellen GWhite had a big influence on how
we perceive saturated fat andred meat today.
At the time this is the late1800s, so late 19th century she
had an epiphany that God toldher that red meat caused lust in

(12:36):
men and probably women, but Ithink she was focused on men at
the time and she felt that thiswas a sin, and so she went on a
crusade to basically vilify redmeat and saturated fat.

(12:56):
So her protege was actually atypesetter.
Protege was actually atypesetter the person who would
put the uppercase and lowercaseprinting press items on a book
that she had written.
This LNG white individual, thetypesetter at 12 years old, was

(13:19):
named Kellogg exactly the sameperson that you just mentioned.
So that person who ended upbeing Dr Kellogg.
And, yes, same person that youjust mentioned.
So that person who ended upbeing Dr Kellogg and, yes, the
same as the cereal company hefollowed.
That mission of you knowplant-based is the right way to
go.
This same group is a majorfunder of nutrition studies even

(13:44):
today.
So keep in mind, one of thebiggest funders of nutrition
studies in the world today stillbelieves that red meat and
saturated fat are bad for you,even though there's no
randomized control studies thathave ever been done to show that
that's the case.
A lot of the time people willsay you know this carnivore or

(14:05):
ketogenic diet, there's nostudies to show that it's
actually healthy for you.
My answer to them is there's nostudies to show that the
standard American diet ishealthy for us, but for some
reason we believe that oversomething like a keto or
carnivore diet.
And so the momentum was therein the 1900s, early on.

(14:28):
The second thing that happenedthat sort of solidified our
belief in the fact that red meatand saturated fat are harmful
to us was an individual named DrAnsel Keys.
This was another superstardoctor, let's call it very
popular.
Everybody wanted to go and seehim, just like everybody wanted

(14:49):
to go see Dr Kellogg, so veryinfluential people wanted to be
in Dr Kellogg's practice.
They wanted to be in Dr AncelKeys' practice.
So, of course, whatever DrAncel Keys was telling them was
going to be shared by the biggerpopulation, and he put together
what he calls the seven countrystudy.

(15:11):
And there was one big problemwith the seven country study
that he put together and it'shighly recommended to check it
out is the fact that what he wastrying to identify was see
these seven countries where theyeat more red meat, they eat

(15:31):
more saturated fat from whateverit is butter, eggs that their
heart attack risk increased.
And so he took this to whatwould, I think, be the sort of
National Institute of Healthtoday and said we need to
recommend that people restrictor eliminate red meat and

(15:51):
saturated fat from the diet.
If you get into some of thedetails, a lot of the people in
that committee were saying no,no, no, we shouldn't be saying
this until we dig into you knowthe studies or put on the
studies to make sure that thisis actually true.
And Dr Ancel Keys showed well,listen, look at this

(16:12):
seven-country study that I did.
It shows that there is acorrelation.
He couldn't create a causationscenario, but he talked about
correlation.
The big problem with that studyis he left about 14 countries
off the list because those onesdid not show an increase in

(16:32):
heart attacks or heart diseaseas a result of an increase in
red meat and saturated fat.
And this was the big problemthat these committee members
said.
They said this is too risky.
We shouldn't be telling peoplethis unless we have some kind of
study to show that it's true.
We don't have any studies toshow that it's true, so we're
making this up.
Well, something else happenedaround this time.

(16:54):
Dwight Eisenhower, thepresident of the United States
at the time, had a heart attackand we've covered this off a
little bit in the past and dransel keys said there's no time
to waste.
It's saturated fat and red meatthat caused that.
Saturated fat and red meatthat's causing all this heart
disease.
We need to go out and tellpeople not to eat that anymore.

(17:16):
Well, the problem with all thisis it was based on absolutely
nothing.
An interesting little anecdotethat I heard, and I want to hand
it over to you, stephen, is DrAncel Keys, when he was in his
early 90s, admitted finally thatsaturated fat and red meat do

(17:39):
not cause heart disease.
It took till 2015 for theAmerican Diabetes Association to
admit that red meat andsaturated fat do not cause heart
disease.
So if you go on some of thesegovernment websites, even five
years ago, you can read thatthey do not cause heart disease.

(18:00):
There's no known link betweenthe two and one of the things
that I heard in the documentary,and this really hit home for me
meat, red meat and especiallyfatty red meat.
Call it a ribeye, whatever youwant.
Ground beef meat has all of theamino acids, essential fats,

(18:21):
vitamins and minerals that weneed.
It's the only food that has allof those things.
That's not a coincidence, in myopinion, and it comes back to
what if the food we were meantto thrive on is red meat?
And that's the conclusion Icame to Stephen.

Stephen (18:38):
Yeah, thanks for that, graham.
You made some really goodpoints.
I mean, it's startling that sofew people had such a
significant influence and somany others and because of their
positions of power, all the wayup to presidents they could
actually influence in theabsence of actual data, and this
is still going on today.
I mean, even I don't recallwhich one it was that spoke to

(19:02):
it in the actual show I think itmight have been Dr Anthony
Chaffee again but it wasmentioned that the NIH, the
National Institute of Health,spends less money than Kellogg
and others do on researchprograms.
So yes, the question is why doyou got to keep restudying
something you've been makingsince the 1900s?

(19:25):
So there must be something thatyou're observing and that
you're trying to to.
You know, make make sure thatit doesn't get to the public or
you're engineering certainoutcomes.
But one thing I wanted tomention to you that I thought
was historically interesting isI looked at the vilification of
red meat and how it progressedand different sources suggested

(19:45):
that yes, it's a keys certainlydidn't help and and Kellogg.
But one of the the scandals thatcame out around this the late
1800s was the Spanish Americanwar and it was called the
embalmed beef scandal.
So at that time I'm prettycertain ships weren't floating

(20:06):
around on the Atlantic coastwith refrigerators.
So it stands to reason thatmeat would go rancid.
And of course they had scurvyand other issues too from that
time period.
But it was interesting thatthey were accused at the time.
The US was accused of usingembalming fluid and other
chemicals in the meat in orderto prepare it.

(20:28):
Ergo, maybe that's the firstexample of ultra-processed food.
So we don't call it a scandalanymore, we call it selection
and variety in these grocerystores.
What do you say to that?

Graham (20:40):
You actually brought up a really interesting point
around scurvy that I want totouch on, stephen, because I had
a number of people let me knowthat you know my scurvy was
imminent.
I heard this woman who's beencarnivore for 65 years and she
had a line that I heard recently.

(21:02):
She said you know, I'm stillwaiting for the scurvy to kick
in, 65 years later.
And I had a discussion withthis individual because I said
tell me your understanding ofthe history of scurvy and how
they identified it in sailorsand how they treated it.
They had no idea, and this isgenerally what I find is you ask

(21:25):
one question and you realizethat they don't even know why
they believe what they believe.
They just believe it, andpeople's beliefs can be very,
very powerful and it can be very, very hard to undo those
beliefs.
Certainly, I found it verydifficult to undo all the
beliefs that I had built up overtime, and so I let them know
that the sailors that actuallyended up with scurvy were eating

(21:49):
this food called gruel.
You can look it up.
It's plant-based, it's awful,it's like an oatmeal slop.
There was no meat that theywere eating.
Let's go over to the Vikings.
So how they ended up, theyidentified the scurvy, because
if you're eating that kind offood, you are going to go

(22:12):
through that problem.
And what they realized is,through a test and this was
probably the first randomizedcontrol test they gave these
sailors, split them up intogroups and they gave them
different things.
You know, split them up intogroups and they gave them
different things, and the groupthat received vitamin C through
fruits were the ones thatactually were able to fix their
scurvy.
Let's take a look at theVikings, who did have meats,

(22:36):
probably had salt to preservethose meats as they went through
the high seas.
No history of scurvy there.
Red meat has enough vitamin Cto avoid you getting scurvy.
Most people don't know thateither, and so these belief
systems.
Once you start asking certainquestions, people realize they

(22:57):
don't actually know what they'retalking about.
They just have a certain beliefin the truth, or what's correct
and what's not correct, butthey have never necessarily
taken the time to really askwhether that truth is the truth
or it's just something that I'vebeen told over time.
Stephen.

Stephen (23:16):
I think that's really important because if you even
take the doctors that are in theshow and we all are in a state
of growth and hopefully stayhungry and curious about what we
learn and if I went back to myyounger self and talked to my
younger self, I would say thatmost of what you believe is just
that it's a belief, it's aconstruct based on what you were

(23:37):
told at the time and you know,obviously, the data.
You can't lie with science anddata, the data you can't lie
with science and data.
I mean, we both had seriousillness outcomes as a result of
pursuing the standard Americandiet, and sure we were busy,
sure we were stressed.
I don't think either one of usis any less stressed than we

(23:57):
were before, but our you knowblood results and everything
else as we talked to, are quitesignificantly different Me as a
diabetic and you with othermetabolic issues at the time,
and so I think that's hard todispute when you can say the
sample size is limited, but it'sreally not, because if you do
enough research and thesegentlemen have, and ladies

(24:19):
there's obviously tens ofthousands, if not hundreds of
thousands, of people out therethat that have improved their
health, and contrast that withthe fact there's 400 million
people across the world withdiabetes.
So you got to ask the questionis it the?

Graham (24:35):
air Diabetes, which means it was something that
happened to them later in life,not something that they were
born with like a type 1 diabetesscenario.

Stephen (24:45):
Yeah, yeah, thanks for clarifying that.
We're talking about thelifestyle diabetes that I like
to say had in the past.
Tense, because it's clearly inremission.
But again, that's what you know.
How much, how large of a samplesize do you want to have?
We talked in the last podcastabout Japan and what they do and
they're, you know, they'reeating a lot of starch, they're

(25:06):
having rice, but what's absentis the sugar, the way in which
they eat.
There's all of these otherfactors, like, again, and not to
pick on history, but again,people have a tendency to to
line up and go well, because youdid this or you ate this,
that's why you got sick.
Well, maybe you just had theflu.
Like, let's look at theFranklin expedition and back in
1845, they sent two ships, 129crew members, and they

(25:31):
disappeared.
And when they later did theiranalysis, you know it was like
oh, it was canned.
It was the canned meat thatkilled them.
It wasn't the meat that killedthem, it was the lead in the
cans that killed them.
Because you know, frankly I'mnot sure about this, we'll have
to ask an anthropologist, butI'm pretty sure they didn't find
Vikings buried that hadconsumed meat their whole lives,

(25:53):
with cans of meat beside thembecause they didn't can.
So we are our own worst enemy.
You can say the same with howwe process meat.
When we don't look at localmarkets, when we're not taking
advantage of people like texasslim, who's featured in this
show about regenerative farmingwhere they're, they're

(26:14):
essentially allowing everythingthe animals to graze naturally
on these fields and uh, there's.
It's far healthier than doing amonocropping.
That really struck out for mebecause I live in a rural area,
I live on what used to be a farmand I see the consequences of
leaving the land alone.
I've gone from probably,according to the original owner,

(26:35):
12 apple trees.
I have about 97 now in a 30year period All kinds of flora.
The bees consider this the TajMahal of places to go to when it
comes to pollination andcross-pollination.
I'm forbidden from cutting anymilkweed because of the
butterflies.
So I say forbidden by my family.
So if we give the earth achance to rejuvenate and then

(26:59):
work with nature as they aredoing in Texas and other places
where they don't necessarilyhave the greatest soil, but they
in fact are having some of thegreatest outcomes in terms of
the quality of cattle, theirrelationship is going back to
more of an ancestral agrarianrelationship.
The animals are respected thesame way, which I highly respect
, the same way that FirstNations treat all life really,

(27:28):
not just what they'vedomesticated.

Graham (27:31):
So I don't know if that struck you.
You know generally, yes, it did, it really did.
And it was probably a year anda half into this journey before
I started learning aboutregenerative farming in more
detail.
So I'd heard it constantly andI know you and I both prioritize
farmers and butchers whorespect regenerative farming,

(27:54):
and it really struck me at thetime that if you had a few
cattle and you had some chickens, that the cattle would go and
graze and they made a big dealof this in the documentary,
which I thought was good.
The cattle would go and grazeand often they'd be grazing on
land that you could not monocrop, grow anything.

(28:16):
It was up on hills.
So you know it's not like thatwould turn into a place where
you could go wheat, even if youthought that that was a good
idea, which I don't personally.
But the fact is these cowswould would graze in these areas
and obviously they would leavetheir droppings after they do

(28:37):
their grazing.
And the idea would be you'dmove the cows to a new area,
you'd move the cows to a newarea.
Well, what the chickens wouldthen do is come in and they
would stamp down the cow crapall over the ground, which is,
of course, manure, which is oneof the healthiest things that
you can put in the ground.
Anyone who's ever plantedanything knows.
And so now the chickens notonly are eating the bugs, which

(29:01):
makes them healthy, but they'repattering and separating this
cow manure that's nowregenerating that land, and the
cows can come down into thatarea a year later and they've
got even healthier grass to eatfrom, and the soil is even
better than it was the yearbefore.
So if you had a farm as a familywith some cows and some

(29:26):
chickens, you could eat red meat.
One cow would feed the entirefamily, probably for a year.
You would have milk, you wouldhave eggs and you could have
chicken, if that's what youwanted, in your diet as well.
You had every single nutrientthat you needed to thrive in the

(29:46):
world, and I'll challengeanybody to open up an app like
MyFitnessPal or Chronometer andtype in a sufficient amount of
red meat, like ground beef, anda sufficient amount of eggs and
see if the app tells you thatyou are low on nutrients.
You'll find that you aren't.

(30:07):
It may be calcium and thatwould come from the milk, but
again, to me it's not acoincidence that red meat and
some milk and some eggs givesyou almost all the nutrients you
need.
You might want to have somefish every now and then fish
Fridays, whatever you want tocall it to get your omega-3

(30:29):
intake, but at the end of theday, that's the healthiest way
of eating.
And one of the great lines inthis is Dr Sally Norton, who
wrote the book Toxic Superfoods.
We've talked about that a fewtimes, including the one where
we talked about our biggestinfluencers, and Sally Norton
has written a brilliant bookcalled Toxic Superfoods.

(30:50):
She had a line in thisdocumentary that really
resonated with me.
She said we live in an erawhere we have a Disneyland view
of plants that are completelybenign.
So, in other words, all plants,all vegetables that you buy in
the store are perfectly good foryou.
There's not a single thingthat's bad for you.
It's nothing but 100% healthy.

(31:11):
If you read her book, you'regoing to realize that that may
not be the case and some peopleare going to react differently
to things like oxalates thanothers.
But if you're eating yourrhubarb and your spinach and you
know chia seeds things that arehigh in oxalates some people
are going to do worse thanothers because those plants do

(31:32):
not want to be eaten.
They have self-defenses thatthey want to have in place so
that they can thrive.
The same thing with animals.
They have defenses whether it'steeth or whether it's being
able to kick you.
All living things have defensesto try and defend against
attackers and, of course, ifyou're eating a plant, you're

(31:53):
that plant's attacker.
And so it really dawned on mewhen she said that that when
you're talking to people, theywill absolutely believe in their
minds that red meat andsaturated store is 100% good for
you.
And I think that's a bigmistake for people to have that

(32:19):
assumption when it comes to foodBecause, at the end of the day,
their health outcomes arepotentially going to be
negatively impacted having sucha strong belief in both of those
things.
Stephen.

Stephen (32:35):
Yeah, I was just looking at some adjunct
information related to what youwere saying and I wanted to just
draw a line on how the sandsshift around, what is considered
healthy or not healthy and whatthe natural reaction is.
And it's a little suspiciousand they highlight this in the
actual show Animal, and that iswhat I quoted was we have a pill

(32:59):
for that.
So as soon as the healthoutcomes begin to degrade, as
they did for you and I, then allof a sudden they want to put
you on a statin, which, by theway, I've seen with my own
family in their 70s.
Now they have wasting muscle,sarcopenia, they call it, and so
, and my father also hasAlzheimer's, which they call

(33:19):
type 3 diabetes.
I think they're all contributedby the overpresence of ultra
processed foods in his diet, butI wanted to underline this
because I find this particularlyinteresting.
So in the 1960s they didn'treally use A1C as a marker for
your blood sugar, and this goesalong with the whole notion of

(33:39):
okay.
Well, this is the point.
We need to put you on a statin.
This is the point where we needyou to put on metformin.
And actually one of the doctorsI think it was Dr Sean who
talked about not really caringabout what his HDL and LDL are.
What he cared about was whathis triglycerides are, and he's
a doctor.
So again it shows they'remeasuring the wrong thing.

(34:01):
I would say the same thingapplies, as many doctors have
said, including Dr Burke and DrBerry, that when we measure
diabetes we're measuring thewrong thing.
We don't measure insulinresistance.
We look at the extent we canmeasure for insulin resistance.
I've had those tests andthey're barbaric.
They want you to eat a wholebunch of sugar and then see how

(34:22):
long it takes for your body torespond.
It's very unhealthy and it's abit like stabbing yourself and
determining how much blood youhave in your system.
Yes, you'll be able tocalculate that we have the means
and the pale solution enough tocatch it all, but it's not a
very healthy outcome for thepatient.
So these sorts of things kindof naturally annoy me.
And what's interesting is thatDr Ken Berry quoted that the use

(34:45):
of a statin because there isn'ta lot of solid research really
reinforcing the benefits toextending your life.
He said it approximates threeto five days.
Meanwhile, those three to fivedays, to quote Dr Adia, in terms
of house span over lifespan, doyou really want those extra
three to five days Becausechances are, if you're anything

(35:06):
like my folks, they're havingtrouble getting in and out of
vehicles and they're having allthese huge issues, but where I
wanted to go with A1C and reallyunderline this, graham
is A1C really only became athing in the 1980s and was the
emphasis, particularly fordiabetics, was more around
hypoglycemia.
So the levels for a diabetictypically in that time period

(35:30):
were 7.0.
7.0.
So a person above 7.0 wasconsidered diabetic.
The average target is verycommon goal between 7.5 and 8,
depending on age, healthoutcomes and other factors.
So right now they want to speedbetween 4 and 6.
If you're not between 4 and 6,they want to put you on

(35:51):
metformin.
So now you're on a statin, nowyou're on metformin, with all
the side effects.
So here I am.
I could pull it up right nowand actually check it.
We can check and put me on thespot and find out what my spot
glucose is on a keto carnivorediet.
Let's do that If you will giveme half a second.

Graham (36:10):
Yeah, so this is Stephen's continuous glucose
monitor, CGM, which he wears ona daily basis so he can check
his glucose levels.
I think it's within 15 minutesaccuracy at any given time.

Stephen (36:22):
Yeah, and right now my trend is 6.0 and I'm not taking
any medication 6.0.
I've seen it as low as 5.8.
So the point is and thesethings tend to be a little bit
higher than your, they'redesigned that way and I'm not
actually putting mine in thespot that you're supposed to,
because I don't have a fat inthat area.
So mine is probably slightlyoff, but probably it's lower

(36:45):
than that.
But the point is I'm not doinganything other than keto
carnivore and I've had thedisease for eight years.
It's been in remission.
It's gone up and down.
Anytime I break back into ultraprocess or something like that,
ibs returns all these otherfactors.
This is consistent with whatthey said with patients and
there was one particular outcome.

(37:06):
It's amazing how incredible ourbodies are.
But one thing that jumped outat me, because I have a daughter
that's in law school.
But they had an instance.
It was Dr Keltz, I believe, whoboth commented about veterans,
which resonated, but also he hada 38-year-old lawyer that came
in to see him that had 12miscarriages which resolved

(37:28):
themselves within six months.
She was able to in fact have aproper well.
In fact, I believe they musthave been extracting her eggs,
but she had like six or eightviable eggs that they were able
to get from her six months aftershe went on a strict carnivore
diet, which is extraordinary.

Graham (37:51):
Yeah, and I've heard from a number of these doctors,
phds, that when they haveobviously specifically women,
when they have got them to go ona keto carnivore you know, high
protein, high fat, low carbdiet what they realized and it

(38:17):
was unintentional was some ofthese women were getting their
periods.
Many of these women weregetting their periods back after
not getting a period for a verylong time.
I certainly am not no expertwhen it comes to this.
I'm only repeating what I'veheard.
The second outcome was thatwomen were getting pregnant
again who didn't think theycould get pregnant because the

(38:38):
diet they were on basically hadresulted in no ovulation, no
periods, and so they wereturning around.
And you know, at 48, 51 yearsold, doc, I've got my period
back, but I'm also pregnant, notsomething I expected.
So they had to start gettingpeople to sign a understanding

(38:59):
that this is a possible outcome.
That the fact is, the dietlifestyle that you've been on
has basically put your body intoa situation where it, for one
reason or another, does notovulate, does not want to
procreate for one reason oranother, does not ovulate, does
not want to procreate.
When you put people back on aproper human diet you know, high

(39:20):
protein, high fat, low carb.
In our opinion, there's achance that your body says, okay
, we are now in a healthyscenario where we can bring
children into the world.
That's mind blowing to me,especially with the rise in
fertility clinics and thefertility process among people.

(39:41):
I can't help but think thatdiet isn't contributing to that
in a big way.
And one of the things you talkedabout was the statins, and it
really dawned on me that it wasnot just taking statins, but
taking statins over many, manyyears may increase your life by
three to five days, and one ofthe things that statins do is it

(40:04):
lowers your cholesterol.
It also lowers your cholesterol.
My understanding is that itlowers the cholesterol in your
brain, and your brain reallyneeds cholesterol.
It is a fatty organ and itneeds cholesterol to thrive, and
anybody who's, you know, gonefrom a high carb diet and that

(40:26):
brain fog that often comes withit, has switched over to a
meat-based, high protein,high-fat diet.
One of the things that is verycommon and you and I have talked
about this is all of a sudden,our brains are working properly
again.
We're able to figure out thingsthat we weren't able to figure
out before.

(40:47):
We don't need naps anymorebecause our brains aren't
running on glucose.
It needs saturated fat, andthere are even scenarios where
they're starting to test thingslike coconut oil or the pure
form of that MCT oil, which is apure fat from nature, and
people are slowing down orreversing their dementia

(41:11):
scenario.
So any of these naturalprocesses that people can take
can potentially help.
And you know, when I talk to myparents about some of the people
in their lives because they'rein their early 80s and no people
in their mid to late 80sthey'll often talk about.
Some of them are going throughdementia.
They're forgetting where theyparked the car, they're

(41:31):
forgetting where they put theirkeys, and the question that I
always ask is how long have theybeen on a statin?
And they'll say, yeah, it's acouple of years that they've
been on a statin and I'll sayyou know, if they're interested
in looking into something, itmay be worthwhile to up the
saturated fat.
I'm not here to give medicaladvice, but certainly something
that comes naturally from food.

(41:53):
To me, there's no downside whenit comes to that, other than
the fact that you've got to getpast the fact that saturated fat
and protein aren't actually badfor you, or red meat
specifically, steve.

Stephen (42:06):
Yeah, that's a great catch, and I've continued to go,
of course, over some of thethings that relate to so many of
us who are diabetics, and I wasjust looking at a study that
was set up by the AmericanDiabetes Association that was
picked up by Rodney Hayward,who's an internist, back in 2018

(42:28):
, who indicated that some of theratings that they were calling
for were far too aggressive andtheir concern was hypoglycemia.
So hypoglycemia is when yoursugar gets usually below three
and you can die from that.
It can become a very seriousissue, and the eight years that
I had the illness, the only timeI was hypoglycemic was from

(42:50):
going for a walk in the woods onmy property and being on
metformin a walk in the woods onmy property and being on
metformin, so it never happenedever, ever, ever again.
As soon as I got off metformin,so, and my A1Cs, my sugar
results have varied between, Iwould say the lowest has been

(43:12):
5.7, and I've had higher ones.
When I had the re-onset of theillness because I wasn't taking
care of myself properly, Istarted eating ultra-processed
foods and what have you.
But any time it's been incontrol, it's been without any
medication.
Any time I've been in thedanger zone call it, you know,
in the 3.2.
And I felt it.
Believe me, it's a veryhorrible feeling, but probably

(43:37):
like most diabetics that wouldbe listening to us, you get a
feeling.
You know that something's notright and it's whether your
sugar's high or your sugar's low, and typically those ranges are
pretty significant.
But it's amazing how you know.
I was just looking at this data, laughing, because I've got so
many blood results done over thecourse of the last few years
and I keep stressing about thefact that I'm not 5.7.
This article that I just saw isin Everyday Health and it

(44:00):
actually, graham says 6.5 formost people is like anything.
You know, that's great.
That's just fine.
Yet they have a pop-up windowin there that says anything over
5.7 is basically diabetes.
So it's a conflicting ad.
It's embedded in there.
And what do you want to bet?
When I click on that ad, it'sgoing to push metformin or one

(44:21):
of the other drugs.
It's, it's, you know, it's.
We all suffer to a certaindegree of white coat syndrome,
even actually the doctorsthemselves, and, like I've told
you before, I even lived with adoctor at one point.
They can, they have to go bywhat they're told to go.
And that's another big aspect.
I don't know if you picked upon that as well.
When I was watching the showAnimals, you could see the

(44:45):
frustration and maybe a bit ofshame in these doctors following
guidelines by people theytrusted who just passed on the
same information.
And the Hippocratic oath is dono harm.
And yet they were.
They were.

Graham (44:59):
It's so interesting that you bring that up, because I am
a big fan of hearing analternative opinion, and
probably my whole life I've beena pretty analytical guy, like
you have, stephen, and so when Ihear something and maybe the

(45:19):
older I get, the less that I'mjust believing what I hear
versus digging into the detailsto see whether it actually makes
sense or not so when I hearsomething, I'll often do some
research on the opposite opinion, something I'll often, you know
, do some research on theopposite opinion.
I think one of the things thatI really appreciate about this
animal documentary is, for a lotof people, this is going to be

(45:42):
an alternative opinion.
So there's, you know, millionsof people that are eating the
way we eat, who are thriving.
I have very rarely, if ever,come across somebody who's on a
keto or carnivore diet.
That says that it made thingsworse.
I don't actually think that I'veheard of it.
I've searched for those people.

(46:02):
I haven't found any, not to saythat they don't exist, I just
haven't found any.
It uncannily goes in onedirection, and so what people
are going to get if they areopen to alternative opinions is
they are going to getalternative opinions here.
One of the things that I hearda couple of weeks ago was oh, I
eat carbs because I need glucosefor energy.

(46:25):
And yes, the body certainly notonly needs glucose, but it
certainly can use glucose forenergy.
You can also use saturated fatfor energy and the brain can use
glucose for energy.
You can also use saturated fatfor energy in the brain can use
and ketones and ketones, yeah,and so the one of the things
that Dr Siwees brought up, c Y WES and he brought he he

(46:48):
actually talked about a coupleof things and I've listened to a
lot of his podcasts and andhe's been a guest on a lot of
the influences that I listen toas well, and a lot of people
don't know this your liver willmake all the glucose you need.
It detects what's neededthroughout the day.
So think about your liver andyour hormone systems are all

(47:10):
constantly monitoring your body,like a computer in a car, just
checking to see if the fuel-airmixture is just right, are the
cylinders running properly, isthe exhaust going the way that
our bodies have that monitoringsystem in place, and if it
detects that it needs increasedsugar, it's going to deliver

(47:32):
increased sugar, and so that wasthe first thing that maybe not
a lot of people know.
So you don't need to eat carbswhich turn into glucose, which
the body then stores in thecells using insulin.
The liver can produce all ofthe glucose that you need.
You have to ask yourself whythe body has the ability to

(47:52):
produce glucose that it needsand you don't need the glucose
from an external source likefood.
Well, if you go back to the iceage, when we were only able to
eat meat, well, the body had tocome up with a way to produce
enough glucose to keep the bodygoing without an overabundance
of glucose, which can turn intoinsulin resistance over time.

(48:16):
The second thing he talked aboutand I thought this was a really
, really good perspective orgood way of putting it his quote
was being healthy is removingharm.
We are meant to be healthy as abaseline and I think this is
the more important the older youget Our bodies in their optimal
state.

(48:36):
And, of course, there arehealth issues that are outside
of people's control.
I was born, you know, withoutthe ability to hear out of one
ear.
There's nothing that I can eatthat's going to fix that.
So I'm not suggesting that youknow food and protein and
saturated fat, red meat thesekinds of things are going to
solve all of your problems, butour bodies are meant to be in a

(49:00):
healthy baseline and so ifyou're able to remove the things
that cause you harm, you aregoing to be more healthy, more
your optimal self.
Optimal self and one of thethings that Hippocrates is

(49:22):
credited for saying.
Obviously, I wasn't there, Ididn't hear him, but he's
credited with saying in order tobe healthy or less sick, you
need to be willing to give upthe thing that causes you to be
sick, and in a lot of cases,that's food.
Stephen.

Stephen (49:38):
Yeah, I concur completely.
I mean generally.
I think that the show wasfantastic because even we
haven't talked about her yet,but even Judy Cho talking about
she's a holistic nutritionist.
I mean, she talked very openly.
As to Dr Robert Keltz aboutmental illness, in her case it

(50:00):
was bulimia and it was so severeshe would rather purge than, as
she said, go and take care ofher infant child, and it cost
her dearly, not just herphysical health, but she ended
up, from the sounds of things,losing custody of her child for
a while.
So these are very visceralexamples of people who are

(50:20):
trained of people who aretrained.

Graham (50:27):
Just to compliment what you just talked about, there was
one individual I didn't writehis name down, but he was
relatively early on in thescenario His father and his
grandfather, I believe, had bothcommitted suicide and he was
getting these suicidal thoughts,Dr Klitz.

Stephen (50:47):
Yeah, it was Dr Klitz.
Yeah.

Graham (50:51):
So he was also getting these suicidal thoughts and he
went carnivore and all of thosethoughts disappeared.
And I can't help but think thatsomebody in his life would have
said to him eating red meat andsaturated fat is going to cause
you harm.
And this person was going to dothe ultimate harm to themselves

(51:14):
and is no longer doing that.
That's the kind of you knowcrazy scenarios where people are
talking about the fact thattheir blood works better, they
feel better, they're mentallymore stable, maybe their mental
illnesses have significantlyimproved or gone into remission,

(51:35):
and people will still say, oh,but the way you're eating is
actually dangerous and not goodfor you.
And that's the part that I justI can't understand, because the
vast majority of the peoplethat I listened to would rather
if saturated fat, red meat andall these things actually cause
problems and cause you to dieearlier.

(51:57):
Most, if not all, of them wouldsay well, I'd rather be living
the way I'm living than beingsick and dying later.
Now I firmly believe that it isnot the case that you know
things like red meat andsaturated fat are going to cause
harm down the road, because thescience simply does not prove

(52:20):
that and the facts and the dataaround that statement are
completely unfounded if youactually look into it.
So it's this whole idea ofpeople showing or demonstrating
and talking about these storiesthat have put them in a

(52:40):
significantly better place.
I got emotional at timesbecause I'm watching these
people and realizing they hadgone through hell and back and
they'd figured out a way to comeout the other side not only
healthy enough to thrive, butalso motivated to want to make a
difference in other people'slives without anything in return
.
Yeah, and I think one of thethings I just want to make a
difference in other people'slives without anything in return

(53:02):
.

Stephen (53:03):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I just want
to repeat his name again was DrRobert Kiltz.
That's the same gentleman youknow.
Thank goodness he was aroundbecause he was the one that
intervened for this 38 year oldattorney who had had the 12
miscarriages.
So it was the same guy he also,and it resonated with me as
well.
His story was very, very deeplypersonal.

(53:23):
But he also referred toveterans, of which the listeners
know I am one, and stated thathe had great outcomes with keto
carnivore.
Putting them on that and I cansay just from personal
experience, I could not agreemore because of the rating of my
severe PTSD and I'm diagnosedclinically with severe PTSD and

(53:44):
I don't mind sharing that itdefinitely improved my you know
mindset way beyond just just youknow brain fog and so forth.
I felt well enough to continuewith my care beyond just simply
diet, by looking at mindfulness,meditation and other things
which ironically, had a, had aknockdown effect on blood sugar
because I was less stressed.

(54:05):
So all of these feed feed intoone another.
There's no panacea per se.
It's not a.
You know you can't take a pilland fix this which we've more or
less proven, but you can have alifestyle which begins right at
the, at the tip of the mouth,is even.
They showed you know the secondthat you know, and I'm probably
salivating talking but thesecond you go to put something

(54:26):
that's sugar in your mouth,you're already getting a
reaction from the liver, you'realready getting an insulin spike
.
It's not even in your throatyet.
So if you are aware that,that's how responsive your body
is and it's an extraordinarybiological, biological mechanism
, I don't want to call it amachine, because our medical
community tends to treat us likelike we're, we're machines,

(54:47):
like a car or something.
It can be fixed, just replacethe part, uh, so uh, we're you
know.
And and actually that brings meback to again like I really
resonated with dr anthonychaffee too, because he said,
you know, it was such a basicthing for a guy that's clearly
so smart.
I believe he's a geneticist,because you know we are made of
meat, right?
So because the best thing forus to eat is meat, because it's

(55:11):
the easiest thing for a body togo oh, I know what that is and
then process it accordingly, asopposed to aspartame.
And there's been like seriouswarnings recently of erythritol,
which is hidden in a lot offoods and is often sold to
diabetics like me, by the way.
So be very careful with that,folks.
If, um, like my wife, you'vehad a tia or other things like

(55:32):
that, there's a lot of evidencesuggesting that it radically
increases the likelihood.
They actually use live cellsand tested erythritol on these
cells and noticed that there wasa constriction in the in the
vessels and a lack of uh, ofpliability as well.
So they were actually gettingrock hard, weren't flexible like

(55:53):
they're supposed to be, and itwas.
It would increase thelikelihood, too, of clotting.
So this is a prettyextraordinary thing.
And meanwhile we're like oh well, you know, my blood sugar looks
good, erythritol is great, andyet you know you might have a
stroke or a heart attack as aresult of this stuff.
So, once again, what'sfascinating about it is, if you
take it from monk fruit, it is afruit alcohol, but again, it's

(56:17):
all this processing.
People are like oh well, youknow the root of that.
That particular product is, youknow, monk fruit, and it's
fruit, sure, um.
But I go back to my originalexamples I've used before.
Poinsettias are pretty natural,but you chew on a few of those
and please don't um, you'reprobably not going to have to
worry about making your uh youknow your investments uh come to

(56:41):
bear because you're going to beretiring a lot sooner than you
thought, probably permanently.
So I mean, everything has to betaken into consideration and um
and I love the fact that youknow you talked about um,
gluconeogenesis, the liver,liver, is actually making it the
liver makes cholesterol, ldland hL.
You know, these are naturalthings that are going on.

Graham (57:04):
And it's healthy.

Stephen (57:05):
Yeah, and it's these ultra processed foods that are
shooting up, or triglycerides,and more often than not they're
not even measuring it.
They're only looking at yourLDL and your HDL, which could be
secondary factors to to theultra processed foods.
And anytime that I go in andhave my blood tests, I'm not the
least bit, even without DrScott Baker's most recent, or

(57:27):
sorry, sean Baker's most recentyeah, thank you.
Most recent comments around.
You know the the lack ofsignificance of LDL and HDL in
isolation.
Dr Burke said the same thing,so I would encourage people to
go and look at what he has tosay around that.
Dr Burke said the same thing,so I would encourage people to
go and look at what he has tosay around that.

(57:47):
And one test that I'd neverheard of it before and maybe
this is worthy of us doing someresearch for our listeners, but
I may get the pronunciationwrong, but it was metabolomic
testing, which was somethingthat was purported by Dr Burke,
and that's really an infusion ofgenome and epigenetics and it
looks at the core chemicalreactions in the body, like the
base ones, including theformation of ATTP, and I thought

(58:08):
that was fascinating becauseI've seen 5-H ATTP offered at
drugstores for or health foodstores actually I shouldn't say
drugstores for helping, I assume, as an amino acid to help build
muscle and so forth.
So here, once again, is a greatexample of your body's capable
of doing it itself.

(58:29):
You don't need necessarily touse all these nutrients, and
even to credit my naturopath sheis so dialed into what I'm
doing she said I need you tostart taking less supplements.
They're just expensive urine atthis point because you're doing
everything you need to do andyour blood tests are showing it.
So I'm still gonna take mymagnesium, so gonna take my zinc

(58:51):
, and I listen to my body andyou know I'm on this keto
carnivore journey like you.
Uh, you know I want to ask like, when's the last time you were
sick?

Graham (59:15):
I can't even remember.
I mean I am healthier today inmy mid-50s than almost the
entire 30s and 40s that I canremember.
You know I was always prettygood about avoiding getting sick
, but I think we talked beforeabout, you know, sinus infection
.
I was always pretty good aboutavoiding um getting sick, but I
think we talked before about,you know, sinus infection and
I'm I I'm sort of programmed forsinus infections just because
there's this divot in my sinusesthat the bacteria loves to hang
out in.
I think it's been three yearsUm.

(59:35):
Usually I'll get two, two awinter um for the last 25 years
I haven't gotten one in threeyears, so I'm not going to go to
hope that continues.
You had mentioned Dr Chafee,who's a medical doctor, he's a
neurosurgeon, and the fact thatyou know we are made of meat and
so it makes sense.
You know we're not made ofplants, we're not made of wheat,

(59:56):
we're not made of cereal, weare made of meat, and it would
make sense that you know meat umcould be an exceptional uh the
best vitamin um and mineral thatwe could possibly take.
I think um trying to trying towrap this up, I my my favorite
line um just because I hadn'theard it before.

(01:00:17):
Um was at the end and I thinkit was either Dr Sean Baker or
Dr Chafee.
I apologize if I got that wrong,but the quote was if you live
like a lion and some people willhear lion diet the lion diet is
basically meat and salt, ormeat and water, depending on who

(01:00:39):
you speak to.
So you're getting rid of dairy,you're getting rid of cheese,
milk, eggs, that kind of thing,and you're solely focused on
meat whatever meat that you wantto have, and maybe some fish.
But the quote was if you livelike a lion, you'll feel like a
lion, and I thought that summedit all up for me.

(01:01:01):
That summed the last two and ahalf three years up for me.
And again I got a littleemotional when I thought that
summed it all up for me.
That summed the last two and ahalf three years up for me.
And again I got a littleemotional when I heard that,
because you really do feel likeyou can take on the world in a
good way and really help otherswhen you put yourself in a
position where you're thehealthiest you possibly can be.

Stephen (01:01:19):
Yeah, and who doesn't want to be a lion?
Right?
I mean, that's a great way toend the program.
Yeah, and who doesn't want tobe a lion?
Right, I mean, that's a greatway to end the program,
absolutely so.

Graham (01:01:26):
I I'm I'm going to give a very, very, very big thumbs up
to this documentary.
Stephen, how would you sum itup?

Stephen (01:01:33):
No, I think it's a.
There's very good reason.
It's one of the highest rateddocumentaries you know, pretty
much ever, and I, I, you know.
Again, I would say have alisten, listen, see what
resonates, because there's somuch information.
I'm sure you know.
You and I did a pretty good jobbecause we were both watching
it independently and we bothtook notes which crossed over.
So it speaks well to um the uh,the writer, josh feldham.

(01:01:58):
Um is the person that wrote it,and um and the cast of people
that he brought on wereextraordinary Dr Berg, among
others, ken Barry, whom I'm abig fan of, we mentioned,
anthony Chaffee, dr Kiltz, theholistic nutritionist, judy Cho,
dr.
Sean Baker yes, I know he's oneof your favorites, dr Berg.

(01:02:19):
You know it was amazing to getthem all to come together and
speak the way they did.
It was like I consider it kindof the health version of the
secret, because it is a bit of asecret.
It's about time that we realizethat the power is in our own
hands and we don't have to go,you know, too far beyond our own

(01:02:42):
body's ability to heal itselfif we give it the opportunity to
do so.
And it's funny I was justseeing something as you and I
were doing research for this.
It said you have to be the leadperson in your own story when
it comes to your health.
And I'm paraphrasing, and Ithink that that's really
important is be the center ofthat story, be the main

(01:03:02):
character in your own health,and it'll pay off dividends.

Graham (01:03:06):
Agreed and you know, if somebody asked me, should I
watch Animal, I would say 100%,absolutely.
You should never believeeverything that somebody says.
You should always questioneverything, including whether
the standard American diet'shealthy for you, et cetera.

(01:03:26):
But I think what Animal does isit exposes you to a number of
very, very, very smart peoplethat are coming from a good
place who are really trying tohelp others.
They're not asking you formoney.
Obviously, you need to rent orbuy the movie, and I think you
and I were happy to do thatbecause we feel like that money

(01:03:47):
is going to the right place.
But if you end up renting thisfor $9 or buying it for whatever
$13, you're not going toremember where the money was
spent.
But you'll probably remembersome of the information that you
listened to in the documentaryand, who knows, it might just
have a major impact on your life.

(01:04:07):
It might just be the best $7 or$13 you've ever spent.
So I want to thank everybodyfor listening to another episode
of Lessons from the Keto-Versewhere we reviewed the animal
documentary.
We believe it's on Apple TV+I'm not sure if it's elsewhere,
but hopefully it'll show up inother places and if you do get a

(01:04:29):
chance to watch that, even withsome family members or yourself
.
It might just make a bigdifference in your life.
Thank you, stephen.

Stephen (01:04:38):
Thank you as well, Graham.

Graham (01:04:39):
All right, Thanks everybody.
Have a great evening.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
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